Hello, welcome to the Extra Credits.
Plus of big things have small beginning.
We're talking about David and Ridley Scott's Prometheus.
I'm Trey and I'm Kelsey. We are back with Alien August.
We covered Romulus a few weeks ago, James Cameron's Aliens last
week, and now the big one, Prometheus.
This is one of our favorite sci-fi epics of all time.
Ridley Scott is one of our favorite ambitious blockbuster
film makers ever. A guy who is constantly
searching for ways to find the great impossible crossover of
making an entertaining spectacle while also doing something
transgressive. And I think he accomplishes that
with Prometheus, a movie that is being reclaimed as a good, if
not great movie, but a film that I think we both unapologetically
love quite a bit. So I want to put out a
disclaimer at the top of this episode before we get too
excited or hyperbolic. Sure.
Or deep into why we think this movie is great because as you
know long time listeners know we try to be thoughtful and serious
in our criticism of all movies we cover.
Especially on Patreons because these end up becoming like very
lengthy live commentary, deep dives.
And in those we try to understand all perspectives of
movies that we're going through in our collection.
But with Prometheus, this has always been a pretty semi
divisive movie. And maybe it has gotten less
divisive lately because of Romulus killing it at the box
office. And it's just become easier to
come out of the shadows and say I like Prometheus.
But you know, again, to be clear, I think we both
unapologetically think this movie is a 5 star sci-fi epic.
And if we're not counting the 20th century, we're not talking
about the 2000 ones, We're not talking about the the original
Star Wars trilogy. We're just talking 21st century
space sci-fi epics. I think this goes up there with
like Interstellar, the Dunes, you know, Sunshine for the Boyle
people, or even Star Trek, the original Abrams film, or I guess
the original of that series. So I think Prometheus some
people think is a stupid B movie.
We think it's in that upper echelon of so high space
spectacles. Yeah, so if you're a Prometheus
fan, definitely stick around. This has been I think a long
time movie that we have shared love for like since the
beginning of our relationship. Like in friendship too, right?
It came out of the year we met. Yeah, yeah.
And so this is something that we like initially bonded over, and
we're like, we both absolutely love this movie.
So we'll be speaking to people who have been in the Prometheus
hive for forever, I guess, since it's existed.
But yeah, we don't really balance each other out here.
As a fair warning, we both absolutely love this movie.
Of course, there are some critiques like like any movie
that I'll touch on, but I think that Prometheus is like actually
probably my number one in terms of recent sci-fi movies.
I I mean, it's up there with like Denise, Blade Runner as
well, obviously like in the same universe.
But I just absolutely love Prometheus.
I think it's doing something more interesting than something
like that's beloved, like Interstellar, that's a little
more sentimental. Right.
So like, for example, we both love the parallel of zealotry in
this movie. We love how there's the
corporate tycoon Peter Weyland, and we love how there's the
religious zealot Elizabeth Shaw, who is presented as a
protagonist who ends up being like a flawed figure that really
Scott is critiquing in this film, as well as his writers and
all the other artists in this movie, along with the kind of
wealthy tyrant Peter Weyland. And if people don't like that,
then this movie is not going to work for you.
There's a lot of things in this movie that might not work for
you too then, like David as this artificial intelligence Android
and him being this representation of immortality
and the closest thing to God that maybe the universe has ever
seen. If none of that works for you, I
don't know if this will be a fun episode, you know, And I don't
want you to get annoyed at us because so many people, you
know, feel strongly about Prometheus one way or another.
And I'd rather me just put this big warning up at the top for
all the harsh critics or haters of Prometheus.
I'm sure we have other movies that we've covered that you love
quite a bit. Now, if you're not a hater going
to what Kelsey was just saying a second ago and you have maybe
more realized criticisms of this movie and you're just a skeptic
of Prometheus has a great film. Maybe you think it looks great
and sounds amazing, which it does.
And maybe you think it's sometimes interesting but
ultimately has like a lot of logic or plot holes.
And maybe you think it's even a little bit irritating and how it
tries to uncover what is wonderfully mysterious and
ambiguous about the original 1979 Alien with the derelict
ship and the juggernaut. I think that's totally, you
know, reasonable. I think if you don't like how,
you know, irrational some of these characters are, the social
scientists or the scientists are in this film, that's also super
reasonable. I think that we're not going to,
like, go out of our way to try to persuade you.
But I do think you would enjoy listening to this episode to
hear why we still think it's great, you know.
Yeah. With all those things included
in the conversation. Definitely, yeah.
And I think I, I may have talked about this on our Romulus
episode. I can't remember if it was this
or Aliens, but I know with the like all the money that Romulus
is making right now, right? Like audiences are coming out
for this movie, which ultimately we are excited about because we
want a third movie in the Prometheus, Alien Covenant, you
know, universe. We want another David movie.
We want to see Michael Fassbender take back this role
and. Bring back the flute.
Let's see it, yeah. But I, but I think like within
that, like there's been a lot of rewatching of the Alien
franchise of Prometheus and Alien Covenant, which is
obviously why we're doing those on the, the Patreon channel.
But I think there's also been a resurgence of Prometheus fans,
which is really cool to see. But there's also something that
is just a little bit like, I feel a little bit irritated
about it. And it's the first time I've
ever understood like sometimes when people talk about like
sports, for example, and they're like, you know, they're being
dragon fans when we get to like championship seasons or playoff
seasons. And I was like, I always felt
like people were feeling an ownership right over that team
or something like that, which there are like aspects I still
think that are there, but this is the first time I've ever
related to that feeling of like, not that I was there first.
So like or, or I heard that song first or saw this movie first.
So I have like the ownership over loving it, but it's more so
that like I understand this idea of sticking with something
through like the losing seasons of Prometheus, like that's
where. I'm relating.
And I, I think that it's, you know, interesting to see people
like rediscover this movie. And I, I have always thought
like the, the kind of criticisms of people doing like dumb stuff
in this movie really line up with like reality.
You know, we just went through like a pandemic we're talking
about like, so I have always found this movie fascinating,
not to say like I, you know, I was here first.
I recognized it. Nothing like that.
Just it's but I mean. Sort of we.
Were no, but I think it's just fascinating that I feel like a
little bit annoyed because I want I I guess like I, I want
people to also appreciate this movie because I want more movies
to be made like it. And I think that's where my
frustration comes from is like, I don't want to see more movies
like Alien Romulus, even though it was a lot of fun and there
were a lot of great set pieces. I want to see movies that have
more interesting themes like Prometheus and because there
wasn't love for it initially, we get kind of recycled be kind of
horror tropes. Like, you know, we get thrills
at the movies that just kind of repeat kind of, you know,
trolley dilemmas. We get like the Marvel IP
universe we're taking. Over theaters, Morally Gray
characters that aren't actually doing anything with
provocations. So I guess that I was, I've
identified I think where my frustration comes from of this
like re loving of Prometheus. Although I ultimately I'm very
happy to see it and I hope more movies get made in a vein of
exploring different things, like religion in a sci-fi movie.
Yeah, I think if you as an audience member are tired of the
IP ification of movies and are tired of living in this
wasteland of copy and paste franchises with boring formulaic
sequels and prequels and now legacy movies.
I do think Prometheus is a really great example, almost the
blueprint of how prequels or any kind of, you know, extension of
an original story can handle IP and handle franchises.
Like if we're going to live in this existential postmodern
world of all art being in reference or in conversation
with past art, which does seem like what's happening over the
past 10 years at least, then we might as well look at something
like Prometheus that takes the original ideas or iconography,
maybe is a better word of the original Alien instead does
something bizarre, strange, and it tries to interpret that
original IP and say, hey, maybe the Xenomorphs are kind of an
accident and are almost incidental to the story and are
almost in a red herring to the through line of this entire
franchise. And even the Engineers to a
certain extent are a red herring too.
And I think what really Scott does, and he brings these
writers, you know, different writers than Dan O'bannon.
And she said, now we have John Speights and Damon Lindelof
writing this movie. He says, well, let's try to make
a science fiction horror creation myth trilogy.
Yeah, which is insane. You know what I mean?
It's an insane premise. I don't know how this movie got
funded. It is a it truly is a miracle.
And going back to what you're saying, this movie made a lot of
money, so people did go and see it.
It's just the reaction to it was so divisive at the time.
And it, I think the sports analogy, the sports fan analogy
is really funny. It's even more serious than
that, I think because it's art where it's like a lot of people
probably don't want to feel vulnerable and say what doesn't
or does really work about a movie intellectually and
emotionally. Which is why a lot of movie
podcasts way away from doing new release deep dives, they'll do
like 30 minute non spoiler conversation or they'll do like,
you know, they'll just stick to deep dives of past movies where
there's already a ton of literature on those movies or
essays or even academic. Research.
It's a little bit more safe, yeah.
Right, exactly. And I do think it is weird to
watch this kind of new wave of Prometheus and Covenant heads,
though ultimately it's great for us.
It's looking great for us to see an extension to the, you know, a
finale to the David trilogy. It could definitely happen.
All right, so we're about to get into this movie again.
We are going to be talking about Prometheus.
We're going to be talking about Covenant.
So if you've not seen these films, you have to go and watch
them. We will be spoiling both the
movies. In fact, I would say you would
probably need to watch the whole Alien franchise to really.
Yeah, stick around for this conversation, unfortunately.
And also I think that we will be talking a lot about Blade Runner
because. That that's true.
Yeah, I, I think the reason we both love Prometheus and if
you're someone who's kind of on the fence with Prometheus, but
ultimately you come to the Alien franchise for a similar reason
that Trey and I do, which is the the kind of like labor and
exploitation themes in the original Alien that we talked a
lot about on our Alien episode. That's on Patreon, right?
Now the gender and sexuality crossovers.
Right. And also the themes that are in
Blade Runner, right? The original and also 2049 that
we talked about on the our Patreon episode as well.
But I I think like if that's what you come to the Alien
franchise for and you're interested to see like how we
also see that applied through Ridley's vision with this
franchise in Prometheus and a little less so in Alien
Covenant. It gets a little bit more
horror, you know, like monster movie and Covenant, but there's
still things there. But particularly, particularly
Prometheus, I would stick around.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
So if you at the very least are like still not sold on getting a
Prometheus, you know, I'm, I'm listening to this Prometheus
episode, at the very least, go see Romulus because again, we do
want them. Because we want David.
Make a lot of money because we do for us.
I do think it would be so cool if Ridley Scott could have this.
And I'm just a Ridley Scott head, so I'm saying it from his
perspective, not to apply the auteur status thing here, but
have this kind of like informal mythic creative destruction
trilogy where we get Prometheus as this cautionary tale epic.
We get Covenant as the extension of human hubris, giving us more
of like a nihilistic nightmares of of humans as like self
interested and fatalist creatures who create something
like David who becomes this like a mortal genocidal maniac.
Like I'm really excited to see what the hell like these writers
and Scott have in store for a third film.
Yeah. So I am kind of just speaking it
into existence. I think Kelsey is too.
But I think the more people that go to see Romulus, hopefully
that's what happens. You know, it's also Disney.
So they could take the wrong advice from that, which is like
let's just do more of the IP slop.
I know and. See what people say Worried
about? All right, so today.
But if Ridley isn't like, actually at the, you know, the
driver's seat, I think it would be different.
He's so, you know, like he's, you know, making his last
probably bunch of movies, right? I feel like he's just going to
try to go for it even beyond like what a studio wants, I
mean. Turns 87 when Gladiator 2 comes
out a week after Gladiator. 287 years old.
Yeah. So he's already in the middle of
like 4 productions. So I don't, I don't know if he
has it in him anymore, but we'll see.
I mean, Gladiator 2 is going to be so sick.
All right, so today our episode is exclusively on Patreon.
As always, our Patreon episodes are deep dives and they're also
live commentary, so we will be discussing Prometheus while
watching it. If you're on the main feed,
you're listening to a sample of this episode.
And if you go into this episode show notes, you'll find our
Patreon, the Extra Credits Plus, or you can get access to the
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It's all organized in there on a collections tab by filmmaker
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You just click our Patreon link in the description.
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And those members get access to our library of over 30 deep
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We have our three new episodes releasing on our Patreon very
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episodes are going to be. So sign up to see what those
are. And for anybody who wants to
listen and watch along Prometheus with us, you can
stream all of the Canon Alien films on Hulu or Disney Plus
right now. I believe if you're overseas,
they are on Disney Plus. We own all of them on Blu-ray or
4K with Prometheus. The 4K edition looks and sounds
amazing. The practical effects in this
movie are actually insane. I.
Cannot wait to talk about that. Yeah, I know.
There is also like a massive 4 hour 4/4 plus hour, you know,
documentary of the Making of Prometheus.
Yeah. You can watch it on YouTube.
Yeah, you can watch it on YouTube.
There's like 10 hours of bonus footage, I think, on one of the
Prometheus Blu rays that we have.
All right, on play. We'll start our journey of
meeting our makers 321 play OK, 2012's Prometheus.
This movie begins with an awesome Chrome blue tint over
20th Century Fox the opening credits we see the iconic Scott
Free productions of one of the great animated logos of any
studio credit one of my favorites.
And then we get the kind of majestic mystery opening of this
movie where we hear this menacing boom of the score
beginning from Harry Gregson Williams and Mark
Streitenfield's main theme for Prometheus, titled Life, Which
There's a lot of music composed for this movie, but I'm pretty
sure life is used like, 10 times.
And I love it. Yeah.
It's one of my favorite pieces of music I think I've ever heard
in science fiction. Yeah, I mean, there's something
like beautiful about it and mysterious about it.
Like it. It really does feel as if you're
seeing something for the first time captured in a sound and,
you know, and it's beautiful, like with the orchestra.
But also obviously there's very sinister things going on and
maybe scary things about the unknown going going on.
So it's a great kind of like tonal difference in the score
and then in the kind of horror alien universe that we're in.
Yeah, it almost feels Spielbergian.
John Williams asked. And then Ridley Scott is like,
just kidding. It's all dark.
It's all, it's all fucked up. And yeah, we get a shot of
Earth. And I realized when taking notes
recently that we're getting APOV shot of the derelict ship.
Yeah, like we're coming onto Earth or into Earth, or a planet
that seemingly is Earth. Right.
Yeah. I didn't realize that Earth was
even there, that we opened up on that because I had always just
kind of paid attention when we are like you're saying, going
through the mist of the clouds and tracking over these
beautiful landscapes of, like, mountains and water running down
them and this waterfall, right. Rushing that is like
overwhelming, you know what I mean?
In terms of like nature, like seeing something that feels like
it could be dangerous, but it's so beautiful and like vast.
Pre human life where everything. Was fine feel like dinosaur like
right time, but I think that, you know, when we were going
over this originally, I didn't realize 1 like you said, we're
in the point of view of the engineer ship, right, which is
kind of like this Oval almond like.
Ship. You said it reminded you of the
arrival ship. Yeah, Heptopods.
Yeah, yeah. And so they obviously have like
different ships for maybe different purposes.
Like the other one that we're going to see later on might be
more of a worship. But yeah.
But I also did not realize that we opened up to Earth because
I'd always been like, is this maybe a different planet?
You know, are we going to another planet where they
created other humans? But they tell us like later on.
I think in different ways you can piece together that this is
Earth. And when this guy who is like
this kind of God like figure, we're supposed to understand
this engineer, right? With translucent skin, massive
being with like a 12 pack at the top of this waterfall.
You know, we're supposed to realize that the engineers are
like creating humans here, right?
That's kind of like the elixir shot that he takes that we'll
talk more about. I have a lot of questions now
taking notes about this and really like trying to consider
the logic of this world what the black goo is because this is
probably a different form than we see in the tomb later on.
So, but but yeah, so like we're opening to to Earth essentially.
Right. Yeah, but it's just important to
note that the first time you watch this movie, or even the
second or third time, it's not like you know that this is
Earth, right? That's still left ambiguous, I
think. 1 Interesting. Planet am I on?
I think it's the first major component of this movie I'd like
to address is that I do think this is a singular science
fiction, you know, legacy movie because it's so often criticized
as an alien prequel. That explains the ambiguity and
mystery and ethereal vibe of that original jugger not from
LV426 and Alien. And while I'm sympathetic to
that, and we're certainly going to be talking about that today,
Prometheus is not really answering many questions, if any
serious ones at all. And in fact, I think you're left
with a lot more lore questions then you came in.
Definitely, yeah. If that makes sense.
So I think the reaction is a little bit bizarre because even
what you just said about him creating human life or this
engineer creating human life, that's like.
It is clear at one point they do show the DNA samples, right?
And they show how they line up to each other that we that we
come from these beings in this sci-fi world, that it's not
answered in this opening that this engineer on this planet is
Earth. He is.
He's creating human life or evolution as we know it.
Yeah, there's a lot of suggestion, of course.
There is the reveal of who is in the the seat from the original
alien. Yeah, yeah.
And that's what people I think are most upset about usually.
But I I do think you're right. Like there are way more
questions that are that come from this movie than answers.
And even with the engineers, like we never, even in Covenant,
truly figure out who they are. Anything.
It's more confusing. Yeah, yeah.
When we get there to government, I'll have a lot of questions for
you. But I do think that there's a
lot of like fascinating things going on with the idea of like
creation being special or like why did why did they create us
all the different crew members motivations for finding this
engineer at at the beginning of the story that we see is really
interesting. Like why?
Why did this ship, you know, come here, watch him do this and
leave? Have they done this on other
planets? Like, yeah.
Yeah, I guess the question I had first watching this was, oh, is
he like a sacrificial person? Is did he break a law?
Like what's going on? Here.
Oh, I thought he was like chosen.
Yeah, well, I think, well, yeah, I mean, that could definitely be
the first interpretation. I think I had that
interpretation after many rewatches because I, it wasn't
super clear to me what he was doing this for.
But obviously, yes, he is a sacrificial figure.
He's taking in this black goo. He starts disintegrating.
What is it disintegrating? Yeah.
Disintegrating into bits
basically falls into the waterfall.
And the title card of Prometheus reveals itself as we watch the
Engineer's DNA replicate and supply in the water before we
cut to black. And then we're introduced to
someone banging on the screen. I love that transition so much.
Yeah, I do want to say just before we we get into Shaw and
like starting this whole, you know, movie with Sean Holloway
at the center. I I think that the like
practical pieces of like this world, I guess, and deleted
scenes we'll continue to talk about.
But at the beginning they were going to start with like a group
of engineers giving the engineer engineer here that we see alone,
like the particular drink, right, that he he has.
And I'm glad they didn't do that.
I'm glad they started with this like ambiguity.
And then also I, I think it's interesting because they, I
guess Ridley Scott or someone in this creative process is like, I
want this engineer to look like David the statue.
Yeah, Michelangelo is David. Right.
And then also the Statue of Liberty.
Yes, and Elvis Presley. Yes, to represent a a couple
funny things. I think people could read that
at first as like some kind of like ethnic superiority thing.
But I think it's a criticism against that.
Yeah, Western superiority, certainly in terms of
colonialism and what this movie is saying about these, the space
expedition crew from led by the the corporate tyrant Peter
Weyland, who spent apparently trillions of dollars.
You find God to learn how to become immortal.
And I think because we follow Shaw in the story, I think there
might be some confusion around like whether she's a protagonist
or not. And I think I'm definitely going
to make the case today that both Ridley, like in creating the
story, has criticisms of Shaw's character and kind of mission in
this like religious pursuit. And then also though, like, I
think sometimes what I don't hear in the conversation of this
movie, but what I think is interesting is the parallel
between, like you were saying, Shaw and Waylon's motives,
right? And how those kind of uncover
and and look at like contradictions within Western
mythology. Yeah.
And ideology, yeah, I think the prologue scene, going into
meeting Shaw, from her eye, she kind of breaks into this cave is
to me what science fiction cinema is all about.
Like, you take our best theories about physics and biology and
mythology and you warp them into something fantastical, hopefully
entertaining, what some people probably refer to as like a dumb
person's smart movie. I guess in this case, I don't
agree with that sentiment, but I understand why, because there
are some pretty big, like, lacing of contemporary or larger
provocations into the story. And then you have a director or
filmmaker and a group of artists who aren't afraid to play with
mythic storytelling and our relationship to it.
And this kind of crossover of how religion and science are
being warped by capitalists and colonialists in this film in the
Periphery. And, you know, at the end with
Peter Weyland, and then more clearly with colonialist in, you
know, Covenant. I think the film of Prometheus
does all of that within a few minutes because it's like, OK,
let's play with this idea that the concept of God is flawed,
but it's sort of real too in this universe.
And humans in this universe maybe do have quote, UN quote
creators. But also these creators are not
the gods that you think of, right?
These are not the gods that you have been told they're going to
be like they are actually mortals.
And all that makes them quote UN quote God is that they
engineered a tool, which is this technology.
I guess they engineered it. We can talk about that.
Let's talk about what the black goo.
Is the black goo that acts as a fire right?
You know, to go with the myth of Prometheus, it acts as a as this
kind of element to produce life and what we learned later in the
movie, it's also a chaos element and has this ability to expedite
life and kind of rapidly go through this cycle of entropy
basically. And therefore, like they created
like this primordial creative destruction weapon.
And it is the most kind of like higher power aspect of this
movie, if you will. And I think that's fascinating
because really for me, this is like a horror creation epic.
You meet God and God wants to kill you.
And also God isn't God. And then the fear is that you
might have afraid of God and and the engineers angry about this
because when the engineers meet these humans at the end of the
film, he looks to his left and there's this abomination
standing there, Michael Fassbender as David.
And the engineers like, what the fuck is this thing?
This thing's going to live forever.
It's like, what we should not do, what we should not make.
And so, yeah, I think the movie is very smart about that.
What you're talking about, what we were saying at the top, this
parallel of Elizabeth Shaw and Peter Weyland in subverting us
with Elizabeth Shaw as this kind of like bad ass Ripley figure.
When she's got this, she's got a little twinkle in her eye that
it makes her a little bit out there, just like Holloway, you
know? And there's something not quite
right with her, you know? Yeah, we'll talk about why I
think their relationship is fascinating and I really
actually believe it in this world, even though they seem to
have different purposes for the same goal.
But I I think you're right in that, you know, the Xenomorph is
like a distraction and the engineer is like a distraction
from what the story's about, which is the people in the
cruise like ideology. Yeah, and, and our hubris
through our ideologies too, and exploitation of people and those
ideologies by very powerful people and what can happen as a
result. OK, so we're in Scotland, 2089.
Our lead archaeologist Elizabeth Shaw.
Noemi repace, or I'm sorry, it's not Noemi repace.
It's Noemi repace, I believe, yes.
I apologize if I said her name incorrectly over the past few
years. I'm sure I've said her name
before on this podcast because I love this movie.
And Charlie Holloway, played by Logan Marshall Green, who I
think is excellent in this film and I will not hear it, that he
is B Tom Hardy. He is his own actor.
I know he looks a little bit like Tom Hardy or a lot of it,
but he's very good in this. So they discover a 35,000 year
old star map in Scotland that matches a lot of other maps, I
guess, that they found from several unconnected ancient
cultures. And they interpret this as an
invitation from humanities, you know, fathers, if you will, the
engineers right Now, as far as narrative conceits go, this is a
major conceit in the film that is very entertaining on one
hand, but also like a plot hole that can piss people off, which
is that, you know, Shaw thinks that these God like figures who
are pointing toward a constellation, this star map,
want humans to come and find them When, you know, I guess
that they've evolved enough to understand what these maps even
mean across these ancient cultures, Which is a really cool
reveal at the end of the film that the stars are not an
invitation. In fact, they are actually a
warning. And that aspect is a little bit
confusing. So I do understand where people
kind of bump on that. Where are we supposed to assume
that these engineers sent delegate figures to Earth to
help ancient civilizations build technology or architecture, and
then these delegate figures drew identical maps, which, like,
it's sci-fi, it's hard sci, Yeah, so it's fine.
But the confusing question is why would these engineer
delegates make these maps? Are we supposed to assume that
they wanted advanced humans to go to the military installation?
Or were these maps for, like, other engineers to know where
they came from? Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. Well, I think, you know, we
learned that they go to the planet that this map is for, and
it's not actually the engineer's home planet, right.
And so it does make more sense if it is a warning like you're
saying instead of an invitation, which I've never really kind of
fully developed that thought until I had to.
Hi, hello there, sorry for interrupting.
Yeah, thank you for listening so far and hopefully you are
enjoying the episode so far. I feel like maybe if you made it
this far. They got it this far, you're.
Having a good time? I mean, let's hope.
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