1 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,040 The hello welcome back to the extra credits. 2 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:24,480 I'm Trey and I'm solo today. Kelsey is busy with finals right 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,240 now, but I'm very excited to talk about holiday episodes in a 4 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,640 really good holiday movie with our today's guest. 5 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,520 Joining me now is a three time guest actually once with a 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,360 Prometheus covenant episode we did quite a long time ago and 7 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,920 then a Last of Us episode we did for the video game a bit ago. 8 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,800 And I'm joined by Co host of one of my favorite movie podcasts 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,840 out there, and I, the duck and director of the new holiday film 10 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,360 Drink and Be Merry filmmaker Adam Bolerich. 11 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,640 Adam, how are you doing? I'm doing great. 12 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,080 Thank you so much for having me back. 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,360 It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, man, excited to have you 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,880 on. Before we get started in talking 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,519 about this movie that I love a lot and I'm excited for 16 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:07,960 listeners to check out, I want to start with I the Duck because 17 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,120 I love your show. Sad Dom couldn't be here. 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,680 It would have been cool to have. The three or four of us would 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,280 have been lovely. Yeah. 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,920 Yeah. Unfortunately, you know, it's 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,800 that time of year where everyone gets sick, so. 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,000 Yes, yeah, totally get you. But I genuinely love the show 23 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:28,600 and since we, you know, last spoke, you guys have been really 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,320 busy. You started a Patreon which I 25 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:31,920 believe is pretty new for you guys. 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,640 Which is exciting been we're a couple months in now to I guess 27 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640 like 6-6 months in to Eye of the Duck after hours, which is 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,600 different than our regular show. We're sort of talking about the 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,520 film industry, kind of like covering the biggest stories of 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,160 the week and, and kind of giving our take on what we think the 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,880 hell is happening out there in Hollywood. 32 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,960 And then, you know, it's a, it's a place where we can expand on 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,360 what we're covering on the main feed. 34 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,080 There's always a couple of films that don't really make sense for 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,280 a model or in the case of some of the larger franchise things 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,360 we cover, there's TV shows or books or music or, you know, 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,320 these ancillary things that don't fit the mold of our main 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,720 show, but which we want to have a opportunity to talk about. 39 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:20,480 And there's just a place that we can kind of shoot the shit about 40 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,440 new release things as well that again, have have kind of no 41 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,680 place on Eye of the Duck proper. So it's, it's been really nice 42 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,280 to to have that as an additional outlet for, for the stuff that 43 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,440 Dom and I want to talk about. Yeah, it's it's kind of crazy to 44 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,040 see how much you guys have on your slate, because I was going 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,720 back in the catalog looking at episodes I've listened to over 46 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,760 the past year and a half, from Blade Runner to ET, War of the 47 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,280 Worlds, the Batman series you guys did, which was awesome. 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,320 That was fun. And now you guys are deep into 49 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:51,920 Mordor. You're in Lord of the Rings. 50 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,480 What's that like doing the big Lord of the Rings in your latest 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,920 series? I feel exactly like Frodo in 52 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:02,440 Moria where he says to Gandalf, I wish then the ring had never 53 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,440 come to me. It's simply too big, man. 54 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,160 It's I, we, you know, we, we, we said to ourselves at the start 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,240 of the show when we, when we began about five years ago, if 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,520 we're ever going to do Lord of the Rings, I feel like we need 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,360 to, we like we need to wait like 5 years. 58 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,080 You know, we, we, we, we're too, we're too young a show to be 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,480 able to tackle such a, a massive thing. 60 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,280 And now we're cashing that check. 61 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,320 It's, it's five years later and, and we thought, let's do it. 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Let's let's go big or go home. And it's really daunting it. 63 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,480 It somehow feels like the the biggest series we've ever done, 64 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,400 just because these three films are so massive. 65 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Yeah, me and Kelsey did. We kind of have the opposite 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,400 like method of Y'all show where you guys go through these great 67 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,720 series that are tone specific or genre specific or director 68 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,760 specific. And you guys usually do what I, 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,040 from what I can tell, like newer releases, sometimes on the main 70 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,280 feed you'll do like a year recap, but like you'll do those 71 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,560 on Patreon now. But we kind of the opposite 72 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,280 model where we do new releases on the main feed on Patreon, 73 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,280 we're doing deep dives into like franchise films or just like 74 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,920 some classics or blockbusters. And we did. 75 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,640 You also do like like 7 movies in like 1 episode though. 76 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,320 You have so much prep per app. Sometimes we will do something 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,640 like that. Like we just recently did up 78 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,360 with Hunger Games last night. We did like 4-4 or five films in 79 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,520 one episode, and that was a lot. But we did Star Wars this past 80 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,280 summer and you know, Kelsey kept saying like, we've had the show 81 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:30,480 for a while, it's fine if we do it. 82 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,800 And I was like, I don't know, I feel like we should do it. 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,280 Like you're 10, you know? Yeah, that's that's how I feel. 84 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:36,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I don't know if we're 85 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,680 ready for this. And it's like she's like, when 86 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:38,800 else are we going to be ready for this? 87 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,680 We're not going to be the Star Wars experts. 88 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,120 Like we're huge fans. But we, you know, as much as I I 89 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,800 love, I love and bleed and or I can't, you know, know everything 90 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,680 about the universe. And so I kind of feel you there 91 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,800 about the the stress of, you know, programming a show and 92 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,840 prepping a show with Lord of the Rings because I would feel 93 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,520 obligated to like reread some of that those books that I never 94 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,040 finished from school. Yeah, I've, I've, I've done some 95 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:06,320 rereading, but I'm nowhere. I'm not, I'm not nearly far 96 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,160 along enough, you know, I think I'm, you know, maybe halfway 97 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,600 through fellowship and we're recording fellowship tomorrow. 98 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,040 So I'm not catching up. It's it's not going to happen. 99 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:21,800 And then I think I've watched 7 hours of documentary about 100 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,680 fellowship and, and, and Parth who researches for us has read 101 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,600 like 3 different books about the makings of, of these films in 102 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,840 addition to also watching those, those seven hours and a whole 103 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:37,040 bunch of other things. So it's a, it's a lot of prep. 104 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,680 And I think these episodes might well they'll, well, they'll 105 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,080 certainly break our like our time limit. 106 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,120 Like there's no way that we'll be able to. 107 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,640 We, we try to never go beyond like 3 hours. 108 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,280 I think if we have like a, you know, when we did The Dark 109 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,360 Knight, I think that was a 3 1/2 hour app. 110 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,280 But basically every time we've had Griffin Newman on, that's a 111 00:05:56,280 --> 00:06:00,360 3 1/2 hour app. Yeah. 112 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 But I think I think these are all going to, I mean, I don't 113 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,080 see how these could be less than than 3 1/2 research documents 114 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,760 are like double the size that they normally are. 115 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,920 And they still feel like they don't like, it's like there's no 116 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,280 way to do everything. Like we always try to do the 117 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,440 like, like, you know, if you want to know the definitive 118 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,640 story of this film, you can come to our show. 119 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,160 We will tell it to you and then we'll give you, you know, our 120 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,120 takes on on the eye of the duck scenes. 121 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,000 This is really the first time where it's like, there's no way 122 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,480 that we could we can be the definitive authority. 123 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,400 Like you need a whole season of a podcast per per film honestly. 124 00:06:37,840 --> 00:06:39,240 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's impossible. 125 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,000 I remember Kelsey and I did like 4 hours and 45 minutes on like 126 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,040 Dune Part 2 because we're like, we're going to be the Dune 127 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,760 podcast. And then it did pretty well. 128 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,520 But afterwards Kelsey was like, listen, I'm not going to do that 129 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,680 again unless we're like cancelling the. 130 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,440 We're going to have to cancel the show if we try to do 131 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,600 something like that again. Yeah, that was a mistake, but I 132 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,800 know exactly what you're saying. Do you mind letting the 133 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,840 listeners know? Maybe pitching them a little bit 134 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:05,040 about Eye of the Duck and like what you guys do. 135 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Yeah, absolutely, Lord. Of the Rings is actually a 136 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,360 really cool series to explain what you guys do over there 137 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,480 because you're taking sort of a detour into the the franchise, 138 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,200 if you will. Yeah. 139 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,480 So the premise of the show, which is also in the name Eye of 140 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,120 the Duck, this is an idea that we kind of borrowed from the 141 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,960 late David Lynch. He while on the press tour for 142 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,320 Blue Velvet, he was asked a very, very normal question and 143 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,800 he gave a very David Lynch response, which was to start 144 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,240 talking about ducks. And he's talking about a duck 145 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,360 and he's saying, you know, the duck's feet are very fast and 146 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,040 the duck's feathers are a kind of like a medium speed. 147 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,520 And the the bill is doing this and and blah, blah, blah, blah, 148 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:46,720 blah. And he's going on and on and on 149 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,280 and saying very, very strange, dreamy things. 150 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,080 And then finally he goes, but the eye, the eye is in the 151 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,040 perfect place in the duck. It's like this little jewel. 152 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,200 And if you really want to get to know a duck, you know, 153 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,720 everything that the duck is, is, is contained within its eye. 154 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,320 And then the interviewer tries to get things back on track and 155 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,600 he's like, oh, OK. And so would you say that every 156 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,440 movie has an eye of the duck scene? 157 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,560 And he's like, yes, yes, I would. 158 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,160 And so we kind of blew that premise up and decided, you 159 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:20,320 know, what if we tried to find the eye of the duck scene in, 160 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,800 you know, in, in, in every movie, basically, we go on long 161 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,280 enough, you know, if we go on for 100 years of, of podcasts 162 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,640 and we cover, cover them all, you know, but no, so, and, and 163 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,840 we, we have a sort of a season, kind of mini season, mini series 164 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:39,159 or season long format where we'll pick either a, a kind of 165 00:08:39,159 --> 00:08:45,200 movement in Hollywood history or a franchise and, or a sub genre. 166 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:49,440 And we will try and explore kind of all of the most major entries 167 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,120 in chronological order. And in each episode we try to 168 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,200 tell the entire story of that film, from kind of the earliest 169 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,400 inklings of its development all the way through its production, 170 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,960 its release, its cultural legacy, and then dominate each 171 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:10,440 OfferUp what we think scene is. We've done series on subgenres 172 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,800 like 80s dark fantasy. We did a whole season on winter 173 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:20,360 horror, you know, outer space movies and cyberpunk. 174 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,840 And then we've done franchises like, like you mentioned 175 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,880 already, like Batman, like Mad Max. 176 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,120 We had a lot of fun doing all of George Romero's of the dead 177 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,000 zombie movies. And now we're doing a series 178 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,160 that is kind of a combination of the idea of the subgenre series, 179 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,480 but also the idea of the franchise series where we've got 180 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,000 this kind of three chapter approach to covering Lord of the 181 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,240 Rings. Where the 1st chapter is a 182 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,960 series on films that sort of pave the way for Lord of the 183 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,480 Rings and either directly or indirectly inspire Jackson or 184 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,360 are in conversation with Jackson. 185 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,920 Then there's the trilogy itself. And then as a kind of third part 186 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,800 of the story, we'll be talking about all of the films that are 187 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,080 produced by Hollywood kind of in the wake of Lord of the Rings. 188 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Yeah, I mean, it's it's heavy. You guys do a lot of work, like 189 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,320 we said at the top, lot of preps going into this, which I really 190 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,440 appreciate with Lord of the Rings. 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,120 My like very specific niche question about this franchise, 192 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,800 even though it's not like one of my like top ones, I love Lord 193 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:28,200 Lord of the Rings like anybody else. 194 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:32,080 Will you be covering or be talking about at any point The 195 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,440 Two Towers or Return of the King PS2? 196 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,640 Video game, if that I think I think certainly, yeah, I think I 197 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,600 think it's going to happen. It'll probably happen on 198 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,600 Patreon, maybe like a little inkling of conversation on on 199 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:51,440 those episodes. But Dom is a big video game like 200 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,960 emulator person, so he, and anytime we do a series that has 201 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,880 any kind of like video game tie in, he tends to boot up the 202 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,560 yeah. And, and we'll, we'll talk about 203 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:06,560 it a little bit. We actually both had a really 204 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:10,640 good time on the Mad Max series playing the, the Mad Max like 205 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,840 open world game from from 2014. I think it was. 206 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,320 Yeah, I, I never played it when it came out because everyone 207 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,560 told me it was sort of like a junkie, you know, Fallout or 208 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,480 Borderlands clone. And it kind of is. 209 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,000 But it's also a lot of fun. Yeah, you know, 100% that sounds 210 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,560 awesome. It's been a while since I've 211 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,760 seen clips of that. Yeah. 212 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,440 I was just thinking about it the other day because I was like, 213 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,920 wow, the Return of the King PS2 game is like the best, one of 214 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,520 the best classic games from my childhood. 215 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,080 And then I saw the trailer for the new Fall of the Old 216 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,720 Republic, the new Star Wars game for like the Knights, the oh, 217 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,920 yeah. And like those two memories just 218 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,920 clashing for me at once. I was like, I got a totally, I'm 219 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,760 getting old because I was like, I got to get the PS2 up again or 220 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,800 emulator, do what Tom's doing. I got to reach out. 221 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,640 I've been playing, I've been playing Mega Man Battle Network 222 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,600 on a, on a, on a analog pocket, which is like a, like a, a kind 223 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,160 of Game Boy emulator thing. So I'm I'm right there with you, 224 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,680 man. So love Eye the Duck, but today 225 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,040 you're coming on the show to talk about holiday movies. 226 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,760 But your film, which I'm really excited to talk about, drink and 227 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,880 be merry. So I wanted to get you on a 228 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,240 little bit sooner. But the show has been kind of 229 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,640 like crazy with just kind of award season films dropping all 230 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:23,600 at once. Totally. 231 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,200 And so we're getting closer to the the kind of Christmas date 232 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,480 now, which feels appropriate, I think to start off. 233 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,320 Maybe you can walk us through this. 234 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:37,120 What inspired you to make a holiday movie, quote UN quote? 235 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,200 What led you down this path? You've been a filmmaker for a 236 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,920 long time. I've watched a lot of your, 237 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,880 like, short films. Misprint. 238 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,920 I think your last yeah, short was excellent. 239 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,400 I recommend people check that out on YouTube. 240 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:49,640 We'll put a link in the description. 241 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,120 Yeah. We'll also put a link, 242 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,520 obviously, to the movie in the description. 243 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,640 So you guys can rent that on Amazon or buy it on Blu-ray, 244 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,240 which I think it's available soon or now. 245 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,000 Right, it's out now. Yeah, it's a it's a it's 246 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,040 officially out. You could get it on Blu-ray or 247 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,840 DVD from from Amazon or Walmart. Unfortunately only available at 248 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,720 the big box stores, but it is adorable. 249 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,280 It does exist. Yes, but with the this movie, I 250 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,240 was, you know, I was kind of shocked actually to see that was 251 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,840 your first feature film. Because I don't remember exactly 252 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,520 what we talked about last time when you came out, when you 253 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,160 talked about your career at that stage. 254 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,800 Because I know you had said you'd made almost close to 100 255 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,160 shorts or something like that. And so you've been working for 256 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,680 quite a long time preparing for what seems like this moment. 257 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,320 So can you. Like, let the listeners know 258 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,320 about your career a little bit leading up to this. 259 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,520 You know, what got this movie going and why Holiday film. 260 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,560 Yeah. So it's it's my first feature as 261 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,040 a director, but it's not the first feature I've I've worked 262 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,200 on. And, and even when I was saying 263 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,680 last time around, it had been, you know, over 100 short films, 264 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,520 that doesn't that that's, that goes beyond just directing. 265 00:13:54,520 --> 00:14:00,040 So for the bulk of my career post, you know, leaving school 266 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,920 and, you know, moving to New York to, to work on, on, on 267 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,200 sets, Most of my, most of how I've like paid my rent, like my 268 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,440 main job for most of my adult life is being a, a 269 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,200 cinematographer. And so I've, I've shot tons and 270 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,440 tons of, of short films and, you know, all sorts of other stuff 271 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,400 that isn't interesting to talk about. 272 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,640 And I've, and I've shot a handful of features as well, all 273 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,640 the while using my, using that career, using the, you know, 274 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,920 the, the, the money I would earn as well as the skills I would, 275 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,920 I'd pick up along the way and the friendships and 276 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,720 relationships I would, I would form to, to also direct. 277 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,960 You know, directing is it's a very difficult career, 278 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:48,600 especially compared to things that have a kind of clear sort 279 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,640 of technical skill that is very marketable, like things like 280 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,360 cinematography or editing. No one really wants you to 281 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,320 direct. There is someone else's 282 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,080 directing and they want to hire people to help them make their 283 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,680 movies. So you have to sort of make your 284 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,960 own opportunities for yourself, which makes, which is why it was 285 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,600 helpful for me to also have, you know, have have cinematography 286 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,360 as a sort of career and gig that I could be doing to support 287 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,760 that. So, yeah, spent over 10 years 288 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,640 having that be kind of like, you know, I wouldn't call it my day 289 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,280 job because I, I never looked at it as a, as a job, even though 290 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,600 it did pay my bills. But that was my main gig for, 291 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,000 for, for 10/10 plus years. And I loved it very much. 292 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000 I, I still, I still do shoot other people's films every now 293 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,440 and then, but definitely the last year and a half or so has 294 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,880 been kind of entirely tied up in, in making this film and, and 295 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,440 both producing and then working on the post for it. 296 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,840 Yeah. So that kind of like organic 297 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,160 networking leading you to making what I assume to be a micro 298 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,360 budget film, though it it doesn't like it, which like I'm 299 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,800 less use the word micro budget. I don't know if that is true or 300 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,120 not, but I'd say it's a compliment because I assume it 301 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,520 is. No, it very much is. 302 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,520 So can you talk a little bit about that, that experience of 303 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,240 like what it was like to kind of be constrained with the 304 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,640 resources and trying to make this movie from the ground up 305 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,640 and then building that kind of like network, that organic group 306 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,280 of people that you've built over those years of being ADP? 307 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,640 Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting one where the the 308 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,760 network sort of encapsulates my work as a cinematographer, my 309 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,520 work as a director and my work as a as a teacher. 310 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,960 So the origin of this film is the misprint which you mentioned 311 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,680 earlier that played at the Art of Brooklyn Film Festival here 312 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,120 in New York in, I want to say, August of 2023. 313 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,880 And while I was at that festival, the film played in 314 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,920 this block of shorts that was kind of all about, you know, men 315 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,280 in crisis who were sort of falling to pieces and 316 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,160 constrained by the, you know, very masculinity that they were 317 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,320 sort of, you know, fighting against. 318 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,400 And there was another great short film in that block called 319 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,200 Holter Dash, written by this guy, Leo Winters. 320 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,480 And the two of us really liked each other's films. 321 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,319 And we started talking at the at the festival and, and agreed to 322 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,839 stay in touch and we started trading scripts back and forth 323 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,119 and giving each other notes. And Leo sent me what was the 324 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,160 script for Drink and Be Merry. At the time it was titled Drinks 325 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,160 must. So the film in that sense, you 326 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,960 know, it's the it's the directing gets you got me the 327 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,800 script, which then got me to to that point. 328 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,960 But Misprint really only happened the way that it did 329 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,640 because of years of being ADP and building connections with 330 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,960 crew who then all worked on that film with me. 331 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,040 My, my work actually in fiction podcasting is what attached my 332 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,840 producer Brandon Hubbard, because I was working with him 333 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,800 on fiction podcast stuff during the kind of lockdown period of, 334 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,680 of the pandemic. And then Jeff White, who was the 335 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,400 star of Misprint, is also the star of of Drink and Be Merry. 336 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,720 I was shooting sketch comedy for him for years and years and then 337 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,880 slowly working our our way up to, to making films together. 338 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,360 And he starred in Misprint and then before we made Drink and Be 339 00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,120 Merry, he actually directed a feature film called Caravan, 340 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:18,320 which I was the cinematographer on. 341 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:24,200 And because it was this sort of very run and gun like low to the 342 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,560 ground micro budget road trip movie where we would kind of 343 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,240 shoot 2 days here, 2 days there. I wasn't really able to bring on 344 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,840 the kind of more traditional crew members that I would 345 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,680 typically have because we didn't really have a very traditional 346 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,560 crew. And so actually what I did was I 347 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,440 reached out to a lot of my former students because I teach 348 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,720 sometimes in the film program at Rutgers University and Mason 349 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,000 Gross. And so I reached out to a number 350 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,120 of my, my former students and sort of said, hey, like, I'm, 351 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,160 I'm kind of in this weird situation where I don't really 352 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,280 have a camera department, but what I have is like, I'm going 353 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,520 to be the camera department. I need hands, I need people that 354 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,760 can sort of assist me. And, you know, we'll, we'll kind 355 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,320 of figure out what positions make sense for everyone once we 356 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,600 get moving. And one of you will become the 357 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,480 gaffer and one of you will become the AC and we'll build a 358 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,080 crew and, and we'll shoot this thing. 359 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,560 And so everyone who worked with me on on Caravan was a former 360 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,560 student of mine, including Parth, who is my researcher. 361 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,480 I the duck. He came on as as a camera 362 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,480 assistant, ended up moving into producing, which then carried 363 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,600 over on to the next one. And Jack Mannion, who who I had 364 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,160 worked with a number of times before, he was once a student of 365 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,360 mine. He was my gaffer and my my BCAM 366 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,520 operator on that movie, Jackson Clark and Cody Lawrence, my ACS 367 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,680 on that film. And while we so while we were 368 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,920 making Caravan, I sort of realized like, we've got this 369 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,000 really nice kind of well oiled machine here. 370 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,240 I've got this script that Leo has sent me that I really want 371 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,280 to make. And then a film that Jeff was 372 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:01,800 supposed to star in ended up getting postponed because of the 373 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,480 sag after, because of the sag after strikes. 374 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,080 And so all of a sudden there was this window where Jeff was going 375 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,640 to be available. And I had always hoped that he 376 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,920 might be able to star in the film because I felt the chat was 377 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,920 such a kind of a perfect Jeff role, and I love working with 378 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,280 him. And so I called up the Aylin 379 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,640 Witch Pub in New Brunswick, NJ. Right around Rutgers University. 380 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,320 It was the place I used to be a regular at when I was a college 381 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,120 student. And I called up Robert at the 382 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,240 bar, and I basically pitched him. 383 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,400 And I said, look like I've got this movie. 384 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,560 It's mostly set inside a dive bar. 385 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,840 You are only open, you know, in the evenings because it's a 386 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,360 student bar. Unlike, you know, New York City 387 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,880 where bars are open from like 10:00 AM to 4:00 AM, this, this 388 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,920 place is open, you know, from 5:00 PM to, you know, to 389 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,840 midnight or 5:00 PM to 2:00 AM. And then there's two days a week 390 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,960 it didn't open till 7. So then, you know, I've got this 391 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,920 script if we only shop while the bar was closed, you know, do 392 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,720 you, you know, is that something you'd be interested in? 393 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,800 Is there, is there a possibility that it could be work something 394 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,080 out? And he basically said that if I 395 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,080 would keep the signage up and call the move, call the bar in 396 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,200 the movie, the Ailin witch, that he would be willing to work with 397 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,480 us on a, on a, on a deal. And, and he did. 398 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,440 And thanks to his generosity, we were able to land on a budget 399 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,640 that we could sort of raise ourselves and finance ourselves. 400 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,320 So between Jeff, myself and Leo, we, we, we managed to put the 401 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,920 financing together to make the film. 402 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,840 And I'll say it's, you know, it's, it's a, a budget in the 403 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,760 five figures. You know, it's, it is very much 404 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:42,640 a micro budget film to the point that, you know, the SAG, for 405 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,520 example, is a union considers micro budget anything that is 406 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,880 $300,000 or less. And I'm like, man, you guys got 407 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,520 to get another tier below micro budget. 408 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,840 You know, there's, there's such a gulf between, you know, 10,000 409 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,280 and 50,000, such a gulf between 50,000 and A100102100203. 410 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,080 You know, these are these are very, very different budget 411 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,360 ranges when you but when you're getting that granular and, and, 412 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,000 and when you have that little. Yeah, I mean we watched Shawn 413 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,600 Baker's take out I think it was which was his first or second 414 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,760 micro budget film. Still never seen that one. 415 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,480 It's excellent. And it seems like he's similarly 416 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,360 kind of assembled A5 to seven, you know, person team, then 417 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,080 increase that to like 12. And then when he eventually kind 418 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,600 of increased his budget and got to afford a project at 419 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,400 $1,000,000, his biggest, you know, the thing that he kept 420 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,920 talking about was like this, you know, people look at this as 421 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,520 like an independent film. He's like, I don't even look at 422 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,800 this like an independent film. I spent $1,000,000. 423 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,600 You know, there's $1,000,000 being spent on this movie. 424 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,240 I started my career making $5000 movies, like $50,000 movies. 425 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,640 And so, yeah, the, the tier system is pretty crazy there. 426 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,920 Yeah. But that's kind of what I was 427 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,600 saying at the top. I just really, I was kind of 428 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,040 shocked by the, the cinema of the movie instantly. 429 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,720 I love the look of this film, the color palette, the green, 430 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,320 the bar lighting that felt like, you know, Spielberg's Guy 431 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,880 Kaminsky is that, was that right? 432 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,440 Who's the key? Wow, that's quite the 433 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,560 compliment. But truly it really did. 434 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:16,040 And the, the I, I think the all the tools were being used that I 435 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,760 would love to see in movies. The split diopter was there, the 436 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,080 the wipes in the edit that made me of course think of Star Wars. 437 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,440 That made me smile. There was a there was a close up 438 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,360 at one point with Jefferson White and his Co lead the 439 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,040 romantic lead. Sophie Zucker, Yeah. 440 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,440 She's wonderful. And there's a close up between 441 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,040 the two of them in the movie. And I found myself, Kelsey, 442 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,160 like, came around the corner and she saw me smiling at the 443 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,040 screen. She's like, it's good. 444 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,440 And I was like, it's very good. Like, I'm really enjoying this. 445 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,280 And later in the film, when we get this kind of cutaway black 446 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,680 and white sequence where it feels like we're watching a 447 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,960 dreamy kind of date night that we never really get to totally 448 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,240 be in. I was kind of like, oh, I want 449 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,040 to step into this world. Like there was so much again, 450 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,800 like cinema going on to not like sound super pretentious, but 451 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,840 like it really. It really was fantastic. 452 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,920 So I can't recommend it enough. When it comes to Jefferson 453 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,720 White, what about him wanted What what what was about him 454 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,000 that want made you want to cast him as as Chet because he came 455 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,560 off as such like this strange because he's perfect to me too 456 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,160 for what the character was like his performance. 457 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,920 And I've watched another things outside of just misprint, but he 458 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,920 has this like, for me at least, this kind of sensitivity mixed 459 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,960 with like this kind of like there's something brewing 460 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,040 underneath. There's a volatility there. 461 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,880 There's an anger there for me at least when I'm watching him. 462 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,520 So I don't know if that resonates at all. 463 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,800 But why did you cast him? I think he's one of the most 464 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,000 energetic people I know and energetic performers I know. 465 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,160 And I get this script from Leo, and the thing that I key into 466 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,480 immediately is the stillness that it is asking for. 467 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,480 And it is very much a film that is about stillness and our 468 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,280 relationship with silence and that feeling of being stuck. 469 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,360 And having known Jeff for a long time and worked with him for a 470 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:14,160 long time, I always felt like the, I, I felt like the most 471 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,240 interesting sort of version of Chet was a person like Jeff who 472 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,800 is so filled with, you know, energy and emotion and who has 473 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,720 like so much love to give and, and has so much, so much inside 474 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,800 of him. That is just kind of like 475 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:36,320 busting to, to get out and forcing him into this, this 476 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,200 location, putting him behind that bar and trapping him there 477 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,960 and then shooting it in a way where the camera is almost never 478 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,120 moving and, and forcing him to, to try. 479 00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:53,200 And, you know, and putting him in a position in a position 480 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,680 where, like, you know, Jeff's energy and his sort of natural 481 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:01,800 charisma would allow you to tap into a version of chat where 482 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,320 even when he wasn't doing much, you would always feel like this 483 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600 is a guy that is desperate to get out of here and just can't 484 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,640 find his way out. So it felt like a perfect kind 485 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,880 of pairing of of actor and character to me. 486 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:19,080 Yeah, I kept literally like 1520 minutes into the movie, I kept 487 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,680 pausing being like, who's this guy Remind reminding me of right 488 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,280 now. And he and I kept thinking about 489 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,240 Ethan Hawke, which was like a really, you know, oh, nice. 490 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,360 It was such such a compliment to his performance because again, 491 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,160 there was such a sensitivity there of something that was just 492 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,960 like somebody being restrained who doesn't want to feel 493 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,320 restrained, which I think speaks to his kind of through line as a 494 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040 character really beautifully. And I'll try to stay away from 495 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,200 like any major spoilers for people who haven't checked it 496 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,720 out yet. But yeah, let's talk about the 497 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,480 bar a little bit. That setting and also the 498 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,960 texture that I was just alluding to with the film targeting. 499 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,080 What led you to making the color palette the way you did, having 500 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,840 that green that the the lighting, the way you did, just 501 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,240 the kind of atmosphere that you created in the mood you created 502 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,320 in that bar? Did you see that right away in 503 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,320 the pre production? Did you get into the, you know, 504 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,840 post and we're changing things around? 505 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,880 Did you know what you wanted in that visual palette? 506 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,640 I had a pretty strong sense early on of what I wanted it to 507 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,280 feel like. I, having worked as ADP for such 508 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,200 a long time, I, I, you know, I'm someone that is always studying 509 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,440 the image and, and thinking, thinking about the image. 510 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:30,240 And when we got into the bar, the two sort of concerns for me 511 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,680 were how am I going to be able to light this based on how I 512 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,320 want this to look? You know, I really wanted to use 513 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:42,280 wide angle lenses for the most part and have these wider 514 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,440 framings that would basically make it impossible for you to 515 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,840 ever lose sight of the space. And you know, I, I want you to 516 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,680 always be aware of the geography and be aware of where you were 517 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,960 in it so that you as the audience would begin to feel 518 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,320 trapped there as well. Like I wanted this feeling of 519 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,080 like there's no escape, but I also wanted coupled with that, 520 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,400 this feeling that maybe you don't want to escape because 521 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,600 it's really warm and lovely and inviting and you know, it's, 522 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,400 it's you, you just, you can't bring yourself to get up out of 523 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,280 the stool because this is just kind of a really comfy place to 524 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,880 be. So I knew that I wanted there to 525 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,920 be this kind of golden glow to it. 526 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,360 The decision to shoot with A32 aspect ratio came from our very 527 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,800 first tech scout where I had like the, you know, a view 528 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,320 Finder app on my iPhone. And I was kind of setting up 529 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,120 frames and seeing what made sense for the space. 530 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,280 And I, I always kind of default to 235 because to me that's the 531 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,720 aspect ratio of movies just sort of internally for me. 532 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,040 And we were certainly able to get, you know, set up shots like 533 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,920 that, but there was so much information in the space that 534 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,600 was getting lost. Like the bar is such a tall 535 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,520 space, such a vertical space. And so 235 felt really 536 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,720 insufficient for what the story was asking for. 537 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,520 And then shooting in in a taller ratio, it meant I could sort of 538 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,680 crush the actors underneath a lot of headroom and, and, and 539 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,800 make them feel, you know, even more helpless. 540 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,560 That then further complicated, you know, how we're going to 541 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,280 light this because, you know, wide lenses, wide, wide shots, 542 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,240 tall aspect ratio, all of a sudden everything is starting to 543 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,160 become part of the frame. And so I knew we'd have to find 544 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,280 a way to try and incorporate the lighting into the design of the 545 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,320 film itself. And so if you're an indie film 546 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,560 maker, what we did was relatively cheap and easy to do, 547 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,760 honestly. So at first I was thinking, 548 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,080 could we could we get some kind of flexible kind of cloth LED 549 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,080 panels and like magnetize them to the ceiling or or hook them 550 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,120 into the ceiling in some way. But the drop ceiling of the bar 551 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,040 was was made of like pretty thin plastic. 552 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,800 So that that sort of went out the window. 553 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,200 And also shaping kind of top light is really difficult to do 554 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,040 in a way that is satisfying in, in my opinion, at least for what 555 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,600 we were trying to accomplish. And so then had the idea to put 556 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,440 something on the bar itself, like could could we put lights 557 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,120 directly on the bar? And so I grabbed a couple of 558 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 lamp bases and lamp shades off of Amazon. 559 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,480 And then we had these little programmable LED bulbs that that 560 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,400 we could control from like an iPhone or an iPad that we put 561 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,360 into all of these lamps. And then we also put those same 562 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,440 bulbs in all of the actual fixtures in the bar itself so 563 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,840 that we could control all of this this lighting. 564 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,760 And so the the lamps on the table were amazing because they 565 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,760 had very hard light that came out the top of the lights where 566 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,480 there's no shade on them. And so we got this kind of great 567 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,240 kind of up lighting effect on all of our actors and it really 568 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,720 like created contrast and emphasized all of their all 569 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,000 their features, every single imperfection really, really 570 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,880 stood out in a way that I really love. 571 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320 I really love, you know, guys with faces. 572 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,920 You know, it's a it's a big thing for me. 573 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,240 And so being able to get that was really lovely. 574 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,040 But then on the other hand, the shades would curse these very, 575 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,400 this very nice soft glow. And I was putting really heavy 576 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,000 diffusion filtration over the lens, which is probably where 577 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,880 you're getting the, the Kaminsky thing from. 578 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,760 So we had a double strength pearlescent filter over the 579 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,880 lens. And the lenses themselves were 580 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,440 these vintage Soviet era lenses, Zeiss contacts primes for any 581 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,400 film makers out there. They're still photo lenses from, 582 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,400 from, from that time period. They say made in West Germany on 583 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,240 them. And I love them. 584 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,240 I've been sort of slowly collecting this set over a / a, 585 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,080 you know, a 10 year period and building it out, just buying one 586 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,520 on eBay every time I had a little extra money in the bank. 587 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,240 And so those lenses, those filters, those lamps that really 588 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,480 helped to create that kind of glowy, warm sort of aesthetic. 589 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,800 And then it's the, the, the, so those lamps are like throwing 590 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,600 practical light that's useful. And they, they're, they're 591 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,200 aesthetically useful within the frame. 592 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,840 And then our main like key light, we really just had the 593 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,480 one key light, which was a a larger LED fixture on a rolling 594 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,720 light stand. And so basically we could very 595 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,040 quickly between setups, I would sort of make the call, you know, 596 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,440 OK, this is the we're motivating from this particular lamp in 597 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,520 this moment, this lamp that is in frame. 598 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,800 Let's bring the key light in and, and motivate from there. 599 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,560 And I should say that my my DP and I are Jack Mannion. 600 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,000 I Co DP D it with Jack Mannion, who I had worked with on Caravan 601 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,320 and when we decided to make this movie together, I it just sort 602 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,280 of seemed like the logical thing to do would be to kind of 603 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,040 promote Jack and share that role with him. 604 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,560 Which was a really amazing collaborative experience to get 605 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,880 to, to do that together and also thankfully freed me up to be 606 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,000 able to spend a lot of time with the actors as well. 607 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,960 How many days was the shoot? It was really. 608 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,480 Short, We had six full days of production inside the bar, 1/2 609 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,800 day to do some inserts and shoot pit bulls, the show within the 610 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:23,040 movie. And then we had a day of 611 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,920 exteriors in Brooklyn and then we had two days of interiors in 612 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:31,960 also in New Brunswick at an apartment. 613 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,640 So I think it works out to like 9 1/2, like 10 days or 614 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,040 something. I was, yeah, we were very, very 615 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,800 prepped. There's always things that, 616 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,240 which is actually crazy. It's crazy. 617 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,120 We were as prepped as we were because we only had six weeks 618 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,640 between deciding we were officially going to make the 619 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,680 movie. Like we like we were kind of 620 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,640 like, I think we're going to be able to pull this off. 621 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,360 I think we can do this. I think this might happen. 622 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,760 And then Jeff's schedule changing. 623 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,520 It was like, oh, it's going to happen, but it's going to happen 624 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,680 in like 6 weeks. And so we had to pull everything 625 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,280 together in six weeks. So on. 626 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,080 We we were surprisingly well prepped with things considered. 627 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,400 Although you know, we didn't have the the entire cast fully 628 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,560 locked until like I think 2 days before we shot. 629 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000 Wow. Yeah, so there, I mean, there, 630 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,960 there were all sorts of of things like that. 631 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:27,280 But as far as things like the actual day-to-day goes and, and 632 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,960 how that differed from making a short film, I, I actually think 633 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,080 it, it's easier in a lot of ways, specifically because I 634 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:41,199 think that day three of production is when every crew 635 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,280 like finally, like fully like lines up into sync and you're, 636 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,120 you do it. You know, you, you've like day 637 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,120 three is when you know how to make the movie and, or a short 638 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,159 film. You know, you might not get to 639 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,920 day three. You might, it might be a 2 day 640 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,160 shoot. Or if it does get to day three, 641 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,880 you'd be like, oh, damn, like I finally figured out how we're 642 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:01,480 all going to do this and now it's over. 643 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,520 It's done So on a, on a feature. I actually found it easier in a 644 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,280 lot of ways that, that we, you know, we hit day three and it's 645 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,440 like, OK, I know how we're going to be able to do this. 646 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,360 In fact, in in a lot of ways, like when when we were in pre 647 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360 production, I kept saying sort of to myself as a way to kind of 648 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,200 calm my nerves, like this is going to be just like making a 649 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,880 short film, it's just going to take longer. 650 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,560 And that was honestly like pretty 100% true all the way 651 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,360 through production and even through most of post where it 652 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,160 became completely different was the sort of question of, OK, 653 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,760 I've made the movie, what does one do with the movie now? 654 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,480 And that was what I was completely unprepared for as a 655 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,840 first time feature director. It was just like, what do you do 656 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,120 with a feature film, especially if you're a micro budget movie 657 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:55,840 like that? In terms of the, because you're 658 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,520 making your first feature and you didn't write the screenplay 659 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,720 in terms of like your, I don't want to speak for you, but I 660 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,960 think I've been, I've, we've talked to a lot of first time 661 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,400 directors and they've, there's a lot of meaning and whatever 662 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,560 project they get to do for their first time. 663 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,800 And sometimes it's not always the case. 664 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,440 Like for other, you know, aspects of filmmaking, if you're 665 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,400 an actor, sometimes you're taking, you know, you're taking 666 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,800 the first job that comes your way. 667 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,360 It's ATV series about vampires. You're like, fuck it, like 668 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,680 whatever, it's ATV series. Like I'm going to totally up for 669 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,680 this. And so for you, though, as a 670 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,360 director, when you're picking your projects, was there any 671 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,880 hesitation in picking something that you didn't have that wasn't 672 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,720 like just dating with you for like a decade, for example, that 673 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:41,480 you were just like, thinking about like, non-stop? 674 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,200 Or was there something in the kind of like the protein of the 675 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,840 script that really spoke to you? Because there's a lot of things 676 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,680 that, you know, stuck with me that I want to talk to you 677 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,280 about. But I'm curious about, you know, 678 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,240 picking your brain about that since you've been wanting to, 679 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,280 you know, make movies for so long and have been making movies 680 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,560 for so long, but this being the first feature that you'd 681 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,280 actually were able to make. Yeah, no, I mean, it's a it's a 682 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,480 great question to ask the what what it comes down to is this. 683 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,200 I mean, the answer to the second question is yes, there was a lot 684 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,240 of, you know, protein here to to chew on that I found very 685 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:14,800 attractive and that I felt was in line with the kind of stories 686 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,520 that I'm interested in. But as far as, you know, was 687 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,560 there trepidation about, you know, having my first feature 688 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,360 not be something I'd written? Absolutely, yeah. 689 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,120 I think I, I had definitely for a long time envisioned that I 690 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,600 would make one of these. You know, this I've, I've been 691 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,480 thinking about this for my entire life and like now I 692 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,000 finally get to, to put it on film. 693 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,280 A lot of those scripts, and I have a couple of them that I, 694 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,760 I'm desperately trying to make. I'm still desperately trying to 695 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,960 make. There's a feature length version 696 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,840 of misprint that I'm, I'm desperate to, to put out. 697 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,800 Yeah, I would love to do it. It's, it's just a question of 698 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,280 getting the, you know, securing the financing. 699 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,960 And I was finding myself in a lot of meetings where people 700 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,160 were saying to me, you know, this sounds cool, but, you know, 701 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,480 we don't take chances on first time film makers or, you know, 702 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,080 this sounds cool, but the amount of money you're asking for is 703 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,400 simply too much. And so that was happening a lot 704 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,760 with the scripts I had written and that I was, you know, hoping 705 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,040 to make. And so I kind of let go of the 706 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,240 idea of of doing my own script because I felt as though I 707 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:26,640 didn't necessarily know how to write a script that was cheaper 708 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,880 than the scripts that I was writing. 709 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,720 Is a big part of it. You know, like, like, like just, 710 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:36,440 you know, just truthfully like my, I felt, I think the, the 711 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,840 ideas I had were two kind of technically ambitious for the 712 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,480 kinds of budgets I was, I, I was, you know, potentially able 713 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,960 to raise. And I got Leo's script and I 714 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,840 immediately felt sort of connected to chat in in such a 715 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,200 such a strong way that I felt like I could, I could tell his 716 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,680 story and that I, and that I wanted to tell his story. 717 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:05,240 And the, the, the bar itself also was such a strong draw 718 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:10,480 where the, the real bar means so much to me in, in my real life 719 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,440 that being able to make a film set there, it, it was such an 720 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,360 attractive idea to me and, and really drew me in. 721 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,760 And then, you know, the, the script was very dialogue driven 722 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:29,200 and there were actually elements of it where, you know, I, I 723 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,840 didn't do much in the way of rewriting. 724 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,600 This is very much Leo's script. But when I, when I got it, you 725 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,920 know, it, it didn't have a ton of scene description and it 726 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,920 didn't have a ton of action lines in it. 727 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,280 In a lot of cases for long stretches, didn't even have 728 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,960 scene breaks. And so to me, I think I saw that 729 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,840 and, and I felt like there was a lot of potential for me to take 730 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,920 what Leo had written and really filter it through my point of 731 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,320 view in a way that you don't often get as a director when 732 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,760 you're you're taking on someone else's screenplay. 733 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,200 Sometimes the screenplay is very directive in terms of what it's 734 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,440 asking for. Yeah, as to in terms of being a 735 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,560 film, and it's up to you whether or not you're going to follow 736 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,520 the kind of blueprint the scriptures laid out. 737 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:17,640 But I felt like there was like a a world of possibility on this 738 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,080 page. There's a lot of confines which 739 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,360 are very necessary for the story, but within those 740 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,400 confines, I felt like there was a lot of possibility and 741 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,000 potential for what I could personally bring to it. 742 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,680 And yeah, that that was sort of my, my feeling. 743 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,680 What really stuck with me is that it that throughout 744 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,120 basically the entire runtime, I was miserably happy. 745 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,560 Like how like I was. Thinking, I mean, that's, that's 746 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,080 the tone we were going for, you know? 747 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,040 Yeah, and you nailed that because it just felt like such a 748 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,880 movie for skeptics of like holiday skeptics, but also like 749 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,960 well intended people who are just trying to trying to make it 750 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,280 in the world. And it felt like a sobering film 751 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:11,320 for people who are, you know, allergic to a holiday 752 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,000 sentimentality, but still being sentimental people, if that 753 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,560 makes sense. I'm absolutely, I, I consider 754 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,520 myself to be a, a very sincere person, like maybe to a fault in 755 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960 a way where like, you know, there's, there's all sorts of 756 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,400 stuff I like can't even get on board with, you know, but, and, 757 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,080 and, and, and especially as a filmmaker, I'm a very sincere 758 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,800 filmmaker. You know, I don't really know 759 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:38,160 how to be detached and I don't know, you know, I think there's 760 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,080 a lot of films by film makers of our generation, which I love. 761 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,400 I love these films, but they're very ironic and, and have that 762 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,800 kind of like too cool for school detachment. 763 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,560 And I, I don't really know how to do that. 764 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,240 It's just like an old yeah, to a degree, you know, and it's just 765 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,640 not something that's in my wheelhouse, but. 766 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,800 But sincerity very much is. And that being said, I'm 100% 767 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,800 allergic to most holiday films. That's all. 768 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,360 You know, I, yeah, I, I can't, I can't really get on board with 769 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,320 them. You know, for, for the most 770 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,040 part, there are a couple that I really love, but I am always 771 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,360 looking for the kind of Christmas counter programming, 772 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,240 you know, what's, what's the, what's the film for a, for a 773 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,160 freak like me to watch during the holidays. 774 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,680 You know, there's we, we all love Die Hard, right? 775 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,800 Like Die Hard, you know, the, the, the classic, it's a 776 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,600 Christmas movie, but it's not a Christmas movie. 777 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,600 You know, I love that. And then on the, you know, on 778 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,480 the sincere side of things, but also it's a little tongue in 779 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,160 cheek is, is Muppets Christmas Carol, which I think is like 780 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,200 basically the best Christmas movie, you know, but I'm, I'm 781 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,800 always looking for, for the other kind of Christmas movie. 782 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,080 And, and, and so getting the script and sort of seeing what 783 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,120 was, you know, everything that was in it and feeling it, I was 784 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,840 like, I mean, this is it. This is my chance to make the 785 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,680 kind of movie that I'm always looking for around the holidays. 786 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,960 Yeah, I mean, I think that's why we love Prometheus so much. 787 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,760 Prometheus is like, it's our, it's our like fucked up 788 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,680 Christmas movie. Exactly. 789 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,720 Idris Elba and his Christmas tree on board. 790 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,520 Yes. Yeah, I feel like we are. 791 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,600 That's why I was so surprised to see when I was so excited that 792 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,520 you got your first feature made. And when I saw that it was 793 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,920 called Drink and Be Merry, and I saw that it might be a holiday 794 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,680 film, listening to your show and also speaking with you on the 795 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,960 show, I was a little surprised because I was like, yeah, Adam's 796 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,760 making a genre Christmas movie at a time where it feels like 797 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,320 people are sort of exhausted by holiday movies. 798 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,360 But that's why I really love this film because it's it's 799 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,480 subversive, but it's not contrarian about it. 800 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,680 It's not really confrontational over the confrontational about 801 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,600 the subject. It it, it felt really like I 802 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,120 said, sobering and also just kind of like really satisfying 803 00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:00,200 to see how how real this movie was as opposed to like the, you 804 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,080 know, whatever the new Netflix streaming algorithmic holiday 805 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,840 content of a film that they're putting out on their their 806 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,560 platform. It's very rare that we see 807 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,520 artful attempts at this, you know, sub genre. 808 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,400 But I assume like you did, I'm assuming you were a little bit 809 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,440 worried about, you know, making it just as a holiday film at 810 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:23,640 first. Oh, totally. 811 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,320 Yeah. And I'm still, I'm still 812 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,080 concerned that we're going to, you know, if we're, if we're 813 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,760 lucky enough for the film to break containment, I imagine 814 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,840 we'll be due for a lot of one star reviews from people that 815 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,640 are looking for a a Christmas, Christmas movie and are going to 816 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,600 be sure painfully disturbed by by what they are confronted 817 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,080 with. So I, I'm, I'm, you know, I, I 818 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,280 look forward to, to getting review bombed. 819 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,760 But yeah, I, I definitely, I definitely had the, you know, 820 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,680 you have to have the moment of asking myself like, oh, am I 821 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,600 going to, am I going to make a Christmas movie? 822 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,280 Especially being Jewish. That's the other thing, right? 823 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,760 I mean, I, I fucking love Christmas, I should say. 824 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,360 Like, you know, I really do love it. 825 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,040 And, and having spent my childhood in England, you know, 826 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,000 I love English Christmas so much. 827 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:15,560 And I, I, I still, you know, every year I try to get in touch 828 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,160 with, in touch with that as, as best I can. 829 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,320 It's a little difficult now that my family is so scattered and, 830 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,520 and my grandparents aren't with us anymore. 831 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,920 But we you know, I Christmas does mean a lot to me, despite 832 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,800 being a a a Jewish person that actually isn't religious and 833 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,640 doesn't celebrate anything but but did grow up celebrating 834 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,680 Hanukkah. And there's a whole scene in 835 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,080 this movie to represent that with Griffin Newman, which is 836 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,720 great. Yes, that's my little, my little 837 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,360 wink, wink and nod there. Yeah. 838 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,280 But but yeah, I did, I did certainly ask myself, like, 839 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,480 what's it going to be like making a Christmas movie? 840 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,640 And then I I again, I kind of went back to this thing of 841 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,320 thinking, well, I'm always looking for, for that kind of, 842 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,480 you know, that's that kind of Christmas movie that's a little 843 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,560 bit different. And so it was a very exciting 844 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,440 prospect to maybe get to be in that conversation. 845 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,840 You know, I feel like this is the kind of thing that if it's 846 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,920 ever discovered and, and, you know, is seen by people, it 847 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,200 feels like the kind of thing that, that I would look for on a 848 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,600 list of, you know, the 15 movies you, you didn't know were 849 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,840 Christmas movies or 15 Christmas movies for people who are sick 850 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,640 of Christmas movies. You know, And then weirdly, I, 851 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,880 I, I think something that I, I want to make sure doesn't get, 852 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,720 get lost in that conversation is that Chet, the main character of 853 00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:34,040 the movie, like we're, we're sort of talking around this and 854 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,240 saying like, oh, it's kind of like an anti Christmas movie. 855 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,080 It's kind of programming. Chet. 856 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,160 Chet fucking loves Christmas. Yeah, nobody. 857 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,840 Nobody loves Christmas more than Chet does, you know? 858 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,720 But it's very much not your typical movie about a guy who 859 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:52,960 loves Christmas, you know? Yeah, that's what I I love Chet 860 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,080 the character. I especially love when the there 861 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,680 is a moment where a character sees his bedroom. 862 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,920 And we're also, it's also revealed to us that, you know, 863 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,520 Chet is going through a sort of worst person in the world, like 864 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,360 identity crisis at this stage in his life. 865 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,280 Or at least that's the way I, you know, perceived it. 866 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:16,520 And I felt like he was reckoning between his kind of like naive 867 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,120 optimism about who he's going to be versus this kind of like 868 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,520 disillusionment as an adult trying to find meaning and 869 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,840 tradition without pretending everything's OK, without using 870 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,960 tradition as a coping mechanism. And I think that's kind of going 871 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,240 back to your your point, which it feels both like a, a 872 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:36,400 celebration of like why tradition might bring the best 873 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,840 out of us to try to find something about the human 874 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,040 spirit, trying to find something about our ability to want things 875 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,520 or to find meaning in the world, But also how tradition can sort 876 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:52,080 of keep you sedated and muted, 100% stuck. 877 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,240 And so I found that that the movie nailed this balance 878 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:59,200 between those two tones really beautifully, genuinely. 879 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,120 And I think that you and you really nailed that with the 880 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,920 Czech character and that performance nailed it as well. 881 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,120 Because about halfway through the movie, I did get worried 882 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,160 where I was like, alright, is this just going to like, is Chet 883 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,840 just going to go doubled? He's. 884 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,080 Going to like double down in Christmas and he's going to go 885 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,200 be like the local Santa at his as malls. 886 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,560 It's going to like turn into a really like sour film. 887 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,440 But he has a really beautiful scene with his his mother at the 888 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,800 end that definitely made it worth it. 889 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,800 You know a lot is is due to the directing but also the the the 890 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,280 performance is is wonderful. I mean this this movie has an 891 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,760 insane cast. I like can't believe that I have 892 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,160 this cast. I feel everyday like, how did I 893 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,240 trick all these incredible people into working with me? 894 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,400 But yeah, so we've, we've mentioned Jeff White and and 895 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,400 Sophie Zucker already, who are sort of our, our, our main 896 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,680 leads, especially Jeff. But then I have this incredible 897 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,320 cast of character actors that we were able to, to, to recruit 898 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,080 into the film. So we have these kind of older 899 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,440 guys that populate this, this dive bar and they're really the 900 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,280 only patrons in the bar. And so we have Delaney Williams 901 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,440 and Bryan Anthony Wilson, who I think are most recognizable for 902 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:16,000 their work on The Wire. Both of them play Baltimore PD 903 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,880 guys on that show. But also, you know, if you look 904 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,520 at their Imdbs, they've got like hundreds upon hundreds of 905 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,640 credits between them. And then Billy Smith, who, who 906 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,760 also plays one of our, our patrons, you know, he's he's a 907 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:36,400 former Boston police officer who became an actor, you know, many, 908 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:42,320 many years ago and has made an incredible career playing, you 909 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,200 know, these kind of nuanced, sort of, you know, characters 910 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,640 that draw on that kind of archetype. 911 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,200 And so that's kind of what we, what he does in this film as 912 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,560 well, playing, playing a, a retired firefighter. 913 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,520 But he's, he's been in like a bunch of Scorsese's, like he's, 914 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,200 he's in the departed, he's in the Irishman, you know, 915 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,680 incredible guy, very lucky to have all of them. 916 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:13,000 And then Wharton Tract who plays our sort of silent, you know, 917 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,240 guy who has basically become furniture, become part of the 918 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,480 bar. He's a musician and, and at one, 919 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,880 at one point, record label owner, record studio owner from 920 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,800 Philadelphia that my producer Brendan Hubbard has has known 921 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,200 for a long time. And then Siobhan Fallon Hogan, 922 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,440 who plays Jeff's mum, Incredibly lucky to have her. 923 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,280 I think, you know, people most would rec. 924 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,680 Yeah, recognize her from, you know, Forrest Gump, Men in 925 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,600 Black, SNL, Seinfeld, just and and a million other things. 926 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,440 I mean, she's worked with Michael Hanukkah and like Lars 927 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,800 von Trier. Like, it's like, it's crazy that 928 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,360 she's in this movie. You know, it's crazy that any of 929 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,080 these people are in this movie. And then rounding out the 930 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:53,440 younger members of the cast, Casey Wartman, also playing 931 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,080 Casey Wartman and Sophie Zucker both play young women who sort 932 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,720 of stumble into the bar, maybe accidentally in a kind of a 933 00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:04,480 little bit won over by by Chet's charm and sort of stay longer 934 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,320 than than perhaps they intended to. 935 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,680 And then Griffin Newman can't really say who he's playing 936 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:16,640 without sort of spoiling a moment, but I think sort of cast 937 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,800 against type and, and playing a very different kind of role than 938 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,920 what you might be used to with Griffin. 939 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,000 And, you know, I, I just feel very lucky and, and very 940 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,120 grateful. They're all, they're all 941 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,280 amazing. And then Pamela Jane Morgan, who 942 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,200 I stole right out of the holdovers, you know, we're very 943 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,320 lucky to, to get in contact with her as well. 944 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,040 Yeah, I was going to, I was going to ask you about that one 945 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,640 because I I noticed how she was also, you know, from the 946 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,200 Holdovers we were talking about maybe, you know, discussing the 947 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,760 holdovers on this episode. Actually, it's like one of your 948 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,560 like several inspirations on this film. 949 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:54,320 But that is an incredible cast. But to to circle on that, that 950 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,800 holdovers point, what is it about? 951 00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:59,720 I I want to hear this from like Adam, the director, but also 952 00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:02,000 Adam, the podcast movie podcaster who's like very in 953 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,800 touch with like what's, you know, what's going on in this 954 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,240 crazy Hollywood system that we're covering like every week? 955 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,480 What do you think it is about this kind of this wave of non 956 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,240 holiday films? Is it the allergy to tradition, 957 00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,280 the kind of like conflation of like the rise of conservatism 958 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,520 with like holidays? You know, not to get too deep 959 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,640 into that conversation, but what is it about? 960 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,680 Because there is something about this movie that is like kind of 961 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,960 very satisfying from if you're on a certain political spectrum 962 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,120 that is a little bit skeptical of the holiday traditions 963 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,320 because it's not going back to our point, not to repeat myself, 964 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,480 but it's not exactly an anti holiday movie, but it's not also 965 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,400 like kind of no glorifying holidays in any specific way. 966 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,240 It's kind of just reckoning with, you know, people on a 967 00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,520 day-to-day basis who are kind of stuck in a cycle of of holidays 968 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,200 in the in America or in the West. 969 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:55,880 But what do you think? It is, that's, that's kind of 970 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:56,760 it. OK. 971 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,800 I, I, I, I think, I think you, you've kind of hit it on the 972 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,560 head there. I, I think the, the holiday 973 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,640 movie industrial complex is something that really relies on 974 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,440 the, you know, universally accepted truth that the holidays 975 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,680 are amazing and that Christmas is incredible and that it's the 976 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:23,120 most wonderful time of the year. And it's for, for a lot of 977 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,640 people, it isn't, you know, and, and the holidays this time of 978 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,800 year being a time of kind of death and rebirth, you know, the 979 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:32,800 end of one year, the beginning of another. 980 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:38,640 It's a very emotionally, you know, potent time of year for a 981 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:43,880 lot of people where you are forced to kind of takes unless 982 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,960 you do have a wonderful Christmas time, in which case 983 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,680 I'm very happy for you. But perhaps, you know, you, you 984 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,440 might be having the kind of experience where you get into 985 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,160 the end of the year and you're recognizing that your life isn't 986 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,920 maybe where you want it to be. And you're wondering how it is 987 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:01,080 you got here to begin with. And the new year comes around 988 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,080 and you tell yourself this year will be different and the next 989 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,600 Christmas comes and it's exactly the same as the one before. 990 00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,400 And you're still feeling that way. 991 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:14,320 And I, I think that people yearning a little bit to feel 992 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,800 that reflected in, in the art that they that they enjoy. 993 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,440 And I think that's why the holdovers was so popular when it 994 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,360 came out in in addition to being just brilliantly written and, 995 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,160 and directed and having a amazing performances at its 996 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,200 core. But I think tonally, I think 997 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,920 people are, are, are, are craving that to some degree, or 998 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,320 at least some, some people are. Because that being said, the, 999 00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,600 the hallmarks and the Netflix's of the world and, and now 1000 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,200 Amazon's getting in on the action as well. 1001 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,760 Like those movies do well and they, they do well for a reason. 1002 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,120 People, people love them. And I, I, I mean, no, no shade 1003 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,440 to them, but they're certainly not what I reach for at this 1004 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,200 time of year. No, I agree. 1005 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,080 And I think that's like, why? Yeah, I assume that's why The 1006 00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,520 Holdovers and then your movie are basically the best holiday 1007 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,000 movies I've seen in the last like, you know, basically five 1008 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,920 years of this of the 20 twenties because they're. 1009 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:09,600 Honored to be compared favorably in that light. 1010 00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,120 Well, they, they're the most, you know, they're the most kind 1011 00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,320 of like down to earth, realistic, just presentations of 1012 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,720 what it's like to live in a, in a time where it feels like 1013 00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:21,680 holidays have become less about tradition and more about 1014 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,120 commodities. And you're just kind of like, 1015 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,360 yes, good consumerism is like over rotten. 1016 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,640 You're just constantly you've said it perfectly and just 1017 00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,880 constantly re reflecting at the end of the year being like, what 1018 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,800 did I do? You know, to to get to this 1019 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:38,200 point as we start the year, which leads me to the final 1020 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,520 segment of the conversation, which is I'm going to try to 1021 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,520 locate my personal eye of the duck of your film, please. 1022 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,960 Would love to hear. It would be a fun exercise 1023 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,200 because I'm sure you've reflected on it Maybe or no? 1024 00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,400 Oh yeah, absolutely. OK. 1025 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,040 I mean, I, I, I know what I've, I've known what my eye of the 1026 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,200 duck was since since pre production. 1027 00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:57,760 You know, that's awesome. I mean, I did, I did because of, 1028 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,800 because we host that show and I should say Dom who, who couldn't 1029 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,280 be here. He also edited the movie with 1030 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,920 me. So the, there's a lot of eye of 1031 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:10,480 the duck DNA in the film between the two of us and Perth working 1032 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:16,040 on this. I, I, I wanted to try and find a 1033 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,960 way to craft the film so that someone could make an argument 1034 00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,320 for just about any scene in the movie. 1035 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,360 That's, you know, I think that we've thank you. 1036 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,440 I think, I think we've discovered while doing the 1037 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:33,280 podcast is that the other things that we have loved covering the 1038 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,680 most tend to be ones where, you know, if there's, if it's Dom 1039 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,800 and I and there's a guest on the show, we all have a completely 1040 00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,560 different scene and we maybe even have a wholly different 1041 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,240 take. And but Even so, it, it feels 1042 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,000 cohesive. And so when we were in pre 1043 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,920 production, I was really conscious of that and, and 1044 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,120 trying to think like, what is the what's the argument for this 1045 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,040 scene? And I'll say, I'll say this, the 1046 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,120 few times I couldn't make an argument, those are actually the 1047 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,200 scenes that didn't end up in the movie. 1048 00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:03,920 They either didn't get shot or they got shot but they didn't 1049 00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,880 make the final cut. Wow, that's a good kind of 1050 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,080 litmus test to feel like what you want in a movie or what you 1051 00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,320 feel comfortable with being in your final project. 1052 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,080 So for me, for the eye of the duck, my personal eye of the 1053 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120 duck, and then you can tell me I'm like dead wrong, even though 1054 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,240 you just said, you know beautifully how every scene 1055 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,280 could be the eye of the duck. But one thing that really stuck 1056 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:29,160 out with me, you know how the film kind of treats holidays as 1057 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,320 this moment of forced like reflection for self reflection 1058 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,600 and chat in particular can't really hide from his 1059 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,080 insecurities or his ambitions. You know, the season won't let 1060 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,880 him, his job won't let him, his living situation or conditions, 1061 00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,400 his dating life won't let him. And what really hit for me is 1062 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,840 how maybe because I'm, you know, in education as a teacher and 1063 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,680 like in how Chet was. And this is probably the only 1064 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,480 bar comparison I'll ever make to education. 1065 00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,600 But like how Chet almost functions like a therapist? 1066 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,160 Totally. To so many people and just 1067 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,160 watching Wake Up Dead Man recently, I don't know if you've 1068 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:06,760 seen the new Ryan Johnson left it. 1069 00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,760 Yeah, it's very good. Joshua Connor's priest figure 1070 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,120 also kind of goes through this like, you know, navigates this 1071 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,560 tough place of looking at his, the the figures he's supposed to 1072 00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,360 kind of idealize as in there like these prophetic monologue 1073 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,680 heavy kind of autocrats. And he's like, I just want to 1074 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:29,480 like help heal people's wounds. And Chet also does that. 1075 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,240 A bartender as priest, as mentor, kind of like caretaker 1076 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,760 of his community in some way, even though it's very small 1077 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,000 clientele at his bar. But there was something very 1078 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,640 American about that to me. Or very maybe like just kind of 1079 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,720 like a Western dystopian spirituality to that that I felt 1080 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,040 like was very on point and very bleak, but very, again, real 1081 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,320 about kind of like bars becoming places in the United States 1082 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,400 where people confess their sins. And you've got guys, you know, 1083 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,840 sitting there watching Fox News and they're drinking their 1084 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,480 sorrows away and trying to make sense of who they are and where 1085 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,840 their lives went. And you have chat kind of like 1086 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,920 pouring their drinks and shots. But he's doing it like, am I 1087 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,800 killing these people and not helping them at all? 1088 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,640 Like he there's just a sort of guilt he feels throughout the 1089 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:22,000 film, which I I just thought was very powerful getting to my eye 1090 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,200 of the duck moment as I'm like realizing this throughout the 1091 00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,200 movie and getting to about like probably 70 minutes or 60 1092 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,400 minutes into the runtime. There's a scene with I I believe 1093 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,200 it's Ray, the character Ray. I don't know the actor's name, 1094 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,880 Delaney Williams. Yes, he's very good. 1095 00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,000 And outside of the obvious like David Lynch nightmare sequence, 1096 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,080 which is fucking rad by the way, like that was awesome. 1097 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:45,720 Thank you. As kind of an eye eye of the 1098 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,920 duck scene. This to me, the scene with Ray 1099 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,640 is the eye of the duck scene for me, where, spoiler alert, Chet 1100 00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,760 helps Ray through some deeply personal stuff is what I'll say. 1101 00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:01,120 So light spoilers, His identity, some like kind of societal 1102 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:02,960 induced shame around his identity. 1103 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,200 And in that moment, Chet is basically acting as a therapist, 1104 01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,920 just being there for this guy because he can't be there for 1105 01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,280 himself to a certain degree. And it feels like the emotional 1106 01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,520 center of the movie for me. And I just thought it, I thought 1107 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,480 it was beautiful. I thought it was like, really? 1108 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,320 It was like borderline inspiring where I was like, oh, this is, 1109 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,320 you know, there are people working in their day-to-day jobs 1110 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,520 who have their own ambitions, but are also just like very 1111 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,400 observant, very self aware people who are just trying to 1112 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,560 help other people survive as well along their own personal 1113 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:38,160 journeys. That I thought was kind of the 1114 01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,560 if there was like a holiday spirit of this movie, like it 1115 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,280 was in that moment for me when he's trying, he's trying his 1116 01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,560 best to help Ray, even though Ray's almost, you know, he's 1117 01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,560 pretty far gone. So I thought that was a It was a 1118 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,320 beautiful sequence. I, I love that man. 1119 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,040 Thank you for, for that reading. That's, that's really wonderful. 1120 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,480 I think Chet, you know, the, he's, he is this therapist to 1121 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:01,920 all these guys. He's also kind of like a 1122 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:07,080 surrogate son, but ultimately their relationship with all of 1123 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:11,680 them, it's based on this transactional thing, you know, 1124 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,560 like they, they are there to give him a couple bucks for a 1125 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:20,720 drink and they take so much more than than they have paid for. 1126 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,320 And he he offers so much more than than than he gets in 1127 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,840 return. And I think it it speaks to who 1128 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,760 Chet is as a person. You know, who he is as a 1129 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,120 character that he, he cares enough to want to treat these 1130 01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,000 guys as well as he does and take care of them in the way he does. 1131 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,920 And, and ultimately become, I think complicit in, in, in 1132 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,160 keeping them from growing in some ways. 1133 01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,800 But I think you're correct to highlight the the race scene as 1134 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:51,600 a as a moment where like growth almost happens. 1135 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:57,120 Yeah. But I I think Ray is Ray Ray is 1136 01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:03,720 is dealing with a lot of, you know, internalized kind of, you 1137 01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,880 know, despair and self hatred that he he has not figured out 1138 01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,160 how to get over. And Chet being, you know, the 1139 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:14,240 sweet, naive guy that he is trying to do the right thing and 1140 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,600 trying to make make this person feel better. 1141 01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:21,000 I think only sort of highlights how, as he said, how how far 1142 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,880 gone he is. Yeah, But I mean, that was AII 1143 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,960 love that scene. It's, it's also, it's the eye of 1144 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,400 the duck. It's, it's the our sound 1145 01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,920 designer Nick Mercede. It's also his eye of the duck. 1146 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,160 It's been fun talking to the, the cast and crew and being 1147 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,280 like, so you know, about my show, you know, about eye of the 1148 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:39,680 duck. What do you, what do you think 1149 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,400 the eye of the duck is? You know, and, and yeah, people 1150 01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,000 have different answers, which is, which is really cool and, 1151 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,160 and makes me very, very pleased. But but yeah, I mean, I, I like 1152 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,040 it's, I think it's, it's my wife's eye of the duck as well. 1153 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,520 Actually, oh wow, do you do you want to share yours and keep 1154 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,240 that private? I got to keep it private just 1155 01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,080 because I, I, I, I just think I'll, I'll tell you off mic 1156 01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,400 actually, but I just think about, you know, death of the 1157 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,640 author, you know, I think, I don't think I have the right to 1158 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,200 tell you what the, what the eye of the duck scene is. 1159 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,920 I respect that. OK, love this conversation, love 1160 01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:12,840 the film. Listeners please check it out. 1161 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,000 Look in the description of this episode for Adam and Dom's 1162 01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,080 podcast, but also their new film, Drink and Be Merry. 1163 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,240 Adam, what is, you know, the the worst question I ever asked 1164 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,200 directors when I get to talk to them on the show? 1165 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,000 What is next for you? Obviously, you're very, very 1166 01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,600 busy with the show. I'm sure you're in a, you know, 1167 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,400 you have your hands in different projects. 1168 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,760 You're probably trying to get misprint still turned into a 1169 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,320 feature, as you brought up earlier. 1170 01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,480 Maybe you're trying to remake Black Christmas. 1171 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,160 If you want to stay in the holiday lane. 1172 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:43,960 I don't know. What are you feeling? 1173 01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,760 Actually, I quite liked the recent remake with with Imogen 1174 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,040 Poots. I thought that was a lot of fun 1175 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:52,400 yes. What am I? 1176 01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,040 What do what do I have next? It's you know, it's it's a wild 1177 01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,840 industry. It's the Wild West right now. 1178 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,480 So I have a number of films I would love to make. 1179 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,880 I would love to make the feature length version of misprint. 1180 01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,760 We got a great new draft of the script that I'm, I'm really 1181 01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,280 hyped up on. And then there's a couple of 1182 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,800 other scripts that I'm sort of, you know, attached to that I 1183 01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,320 would, I would love to, I would love to get made. 1184 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,080 But it really is entirely dependent on what kind of shape 1185 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,560 the industry takes and, and who is interested in collaborating 1186 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,960 with us and, and working on financing with us. 1187 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,000 You know, that's just the reality of making making these 1188 01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,480 micro budget independent films is that you, you need people who 1189 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,400 want to make them. And I'm, I'm, I'm ready. 1190 01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,760 You know who who if you're out there and you you want to get 1191 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:40,120 involved, I'm around.