1 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,480 Hello, welcome to the extra credits of Brady Corbet's The 2 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:21,880 Brutalist. I'm Trey and. 3 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,880 I'm Kelsey. So the Brutalist, this has been 4 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:28,480 the most anticipated movie of the last six to eight months. 5 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,439 Yeah, a movie that came out of Venice with the Silver Lion. 6 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:34,520 So it's been a big deal since I think August. 7 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,440 And basically every critic going across like November to December 8 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,880 who was able to check out this movie early because apparently 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,200 was only playing in New York in LA the past few months, now just 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,360 got to us here in Colorado in January. 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,680 But basically every critic was like, this movie is all caps 12 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,480 monumental to the point where they like made a joke about it 13 00:00:53,480 --> 00:00:56,520 on the poster where they said like 15 critics that said this 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,160 movie is monumental. And, you know, people have 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,560 discussed this film, even those who are critical of it, as this 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,320 towering cinematic achievement. So I did not go into January 17 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:10,520 expecting we would still be talking about or discussing 18 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,120 movies that others are identifying as a masterpiece 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,760 from 2024. But here we are. 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,040 We just finished our deep dive on queer, which is one of my 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,760 favorite movies of the year. That is a distancing movie, but 22 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,960 quite an achievement. And now we're talking about a 23 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,440 movie that some are calling, you know, the new, the next 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:29,160 Godfather, right? So there is a lot to discuss 25 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,640 today. This is a dense text. 26 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,480 This is a massive movie. It's very big. 27 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,680 It's ambitious. It is bold in scope considering 28 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,680 its budget. If you know anything about 29 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,600 Corbet's decisions to get this movie made at a $10 million 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,560 budget or the kind of scarcity of resources around this 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,960 project, about how he tried to get off the ground for like 7 or 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,640 8 years, was shooting it for four or five years. 33 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,920 This has been a long journey to get this movie made. 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,360 And the fact that a 24 is getting out on IMAX screens is 35 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,600 pretty amazing. It's shot on Vista Vision, so 36 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,120 there's a lot to love from a pretentious, like, cinephile, 37 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,120 Yeah, lens of this film. But also narratively, it is a 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,479 movie that we have seen before. It is like the Great American 39 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:12,680 Tragedy. It is a coming to America 40 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,680 nightmare. It is the American Dream is a 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,800 lie kind of story that we've seen in cinema, that we've seen 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,920 in fiction. And it is a 215 minute movie. 43 00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,960 So a film that you would think people would hate considering 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,560 its length, considering the repetitiveness of this genre and 45 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,000 story, though it is a story that should be retold over time for 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,600 obvious reasons. But yeah. 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,240 What are your first walk away thoughts? 48 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,520 Because we just saw it last night. 49 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,520 So this is a reaction episode, even though we're trying to deep 50 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,240 dive in the moment. And so we haven't really taken 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,600 in too many of our, you know, favorite other podcast or 52 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,800 critics opinions on this film. So we're really kind of going 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,280 off fresh reactions here. But what are your walk away 54 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,480 thoughts? Did you walk away thinking that 55 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,280 was this a masterpiece? Was this two movies in one? 56 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,760 Is it being, is it overrated? How you feeling? 57 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,600 I think my first thought, just like take away from the movie is 58 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,400 I love an intermission. Loved the intermission. 59 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,720 We're in a packed theater. I do too. 60 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,040 And not only obviously does it like for practical reasons, give 61 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,720 people a minute to like, do what they need to do and not miss, 62 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,160 you know, parts of the movie. Take a break. 63 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,920 But also, I love seeing people kind of like catch up, talk 64 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:29,880 about the movie over here, conversations of how people were 65 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,600 receiving the movie or their thoughts or just like other 66 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,800 movies they had seen that year. I loved the chatter and the 67 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,400 energy in the room. It just felt like something that 68 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,320 you usually get from like a theater experience. 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,880 If you're seeing like a play or a different like performance 70 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,640 where you do have that intermission and you are able to 71 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,840 like feel the energy of the crowd. 72 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,800 I just loved it in a movie theater and I don't. 73 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,240 Like a micro monoculture. Yeah, it feels like you're 74 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,800 actually in a film community, in an artistic space in this case, 75 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,920 for like almost 4 hours. Yeah, so I completely agree. 76 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,360 You want so you would be fine with it in other movies too. 77 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,200 Give it to me in like 90 minute movies, I'll, you know, take the 78 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,120 break of the 4045 minute mark. I'm good to like stand around 79 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:11,720 for 10 minutes, talk to neighbors. 80 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,400 We were listening on people's conversations and everybody was 81 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,279 discussing this movie in like great length and there was all 82 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,519 ages at our screening. I would say they were more like 83 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,280 45 plus on average. And it was a pretty big show. 84 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,200 It was sold out. I would say there, there was 85 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,000 probably like 100 and 5200 people in there, but there were 86 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,840 some, there were some younger people, there were some under 87 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:33,560 30s, but mostly 45 plus. And people were discussing this 88 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,000 movie narratively first and foremost. 89 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,000 Obviously there's a lot cinematically to discuss, 90 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,480 especially that, you know, amazing, beautiful but also 91 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,960 haunting opening sequence that I'm really exciting to talk to 92 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,280 you about. But you know, people were 93 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,360 talking about the story about this Hungarian Jewish architect, 94 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,960 Holocaust survivor seeking refuge in a post war America in 95 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,200 pursuit of the American dream, only to be exploited by the very 96 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:02,040 myth makers of that dream. And then you heard people 97 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,880 talking about maybe the performances. 98 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,760 Someone next to us was talking about how crazy, funny and 99 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,080 absurd guy Pierce was in this young Logan Roy or young Peter. 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,680 Whelan for me, that's what I was thinking about yeah yeah, I 101 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,520 mean, I that, that was definitely really fun. 102 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,280 I, I guess you know, people can let us know in your comment in 103 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:22,480 the comments if you enjoyed the intermission 'cause I was 104 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,320 thinking if we're, you know, calling for an intermission in 105 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,320 all movies, like if we're a lot of times, sometimes we're the 106 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,200 only ones in the theater. If it's like a sure, there's a 107 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,200 few people in the theater. So maybe it wouldn't be the same 108 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,880 experience, but. If you're in a theater with one 109 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,680 other person, yeah, that's funny. 110 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:39,800 Or like, yeah. And also, like, you know, if 111 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,320 there's like a horror movie, you know. 112 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,320 Get your letterbox out. Don't make it weird, just. 113 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,320 Like, yeah, just us too swap, which we've definitely been in a 114 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,280 lot of horror movies and just like one other person. 115 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,680 Yeah, we have some bad stories, some tough. 116 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Stories. So maybe, maybe not. 117 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,400 But in this particular, yeah, this particular atmosphere, it 118 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,680 was great. People, let us know your 119 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,360 experience. But for the actual movie, I 120 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,560 really, I didn't know how I'd feel. 121 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,880 I was trying not to, like, read anything, listen to anything 122 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,240 that would, you know, impact my experience with something that 123 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,400 was being lauded as like a masterpiece, like not only the 124 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,560 best movie of the year, but maybe like an instant classic. 125 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,520 Sure. And so I but I think that 126 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,920 obviously like did have some sort of while not hearing any 127 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,920 specifics about the movie that kind of like the the brutalist 128 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:37,040 is this 5 star yes, like and so going into obviously like that 129 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,000 does impact me a little. The first half of it, though, I 130 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,080 will say was great. I I thought that I was really in 131 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,680 and I didn't know if I would meet that kind of, you know, 132 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,760 this is a A5 star movie, but I thought I was going to get there 133 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,960 after the the first half when we went into the intermission, 134 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,520 which we didn't like share with each other during the 135 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,400 intermission, we were trying not to talk right. 136 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,680 It's the. Questions we had about the. 137 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,800 Yeah, maybe just because I had some like mysterious elements. 138 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,720 Didn't you love the Peter Weyland like piece of this or 139 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,960 Yeah, so, so very like light stuff. 140 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,840 I showed my family. I gave them a $500 check. 141 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,360 Yeah, yeah. That stuff was really, you know, 142 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,280 funny to to discuss. Definitely. 143 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,560 And also, you know, very similar energy in the Prometheus alien 144 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,920 world from Guy Pierce. But I, I think in the 145 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:29,480 second-half it lost me a little. I still think that it's a 146 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,360 cinematic achievement. I think it is an amazing film to 147 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,800 look at. I think part of that also has to 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,240 do with like incorporating kind of very smartly like the aspect 149 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,040 of beautiful architecture. Yeah, the actual brutalist 150 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:49,000 architecture, yeah. Yeah, so I was locked in for the 151 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,840 full movie, but there were some narrative choices towards the 152 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,720 end that I was not, I don't think really like it's it's not 153 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,200 me saying like I wish this was done differently. 154 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:06,320 It's I think it wasn't effective in the the fuller broader story 155 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,880 that was being told. While I also think though, like 156 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,240 some of the more surreal elements of the second-half 157 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,560 actually did work. So I'm interested to see like 158 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:15,880 what you think about it as a whole. 159 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,680 But what did you think? Like verse I I know they're not. 160 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,880 I know it is one full movie, but I did have a very like 161 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,600 interesting experience of dropping a little bit in the 162 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,040 second-half about you. Yeah, no, similar, similar 163 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,040 experience. I like this movie lesson you do. 164 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,799 I would say I like this movie a lot less than critics. 165 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,600 I really admire that. I read from all the time that I 166 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,320 listen to in different podcasts. I had a really conflicting 167 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,640 experience with this film because I loved it on paper. 168 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,520 I love everything cinematically that you're saying. 169 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,160 I love it visually, I love it sonically. 170 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,960 I like I really liked it structurally. 171 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,360 I think it is really ambitious to have people sit down for four 172 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,720 hours and to go through this epic without ever feeling the 173 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,280 pace, which I don't. The editing is wonderful in this 174 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,760 movie. The performances are very good. 175 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,520 I think the the tension of this movie between this this Jewish 176 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,800 man who was attempting to acculturate while trying to get 177 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,960 his family back from Austria is devastating. 178 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,400 And the kind of cost of acculturation and assimilation 179 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,960 in this movie is fascinating. And what that leads to what that 180 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,440 engenders is is a really interesting conversation that we 181 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,840 can have today in the spoiler section as we're still in non 182 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,040 spoilers right now. I think that a lot of the 183 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,000 dramatic tension that I love from Part 1 was lost a bit in 184 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,600 Part 2 and then comes back in the epilogue in a place that I 185 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,200 felt was underdeveloped. And what I mean is there's a lot 186 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,680 of there's a big commentary in this movie outside of just the 187 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:43,000 the immigrant journey of this conversation or intersection of 188 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,320 art and commerce and how we make art in a capitalist world, in a 189 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,160 post industrial world, like in a late capitalist world, even 190 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,040 today, because there are contemporary lenses on this 191 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,040 film. How we how do we do that? 192 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,240 Like, how do we do that without sacrificing our own ethics in 193 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,800 our own morals in different ways? 194 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,720 And so even though this movie is featuring this massive immigrant 195 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,960 journey, it also doesn't feel like an epic because we're not 196 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,920 seeing a start to finish of something in particular. 197 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:12,560 But we are seeing a sort of cost of myth making, a cost of who 198 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:17,680 controls history, a cost of who controls your art overtime, the 199 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:21,400 redefining of art overtime. So there's really big ideas that 200 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,960 I feel are are fascinating in this movie. 201 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,520 However, what I will say and what kept me back from loving it 202 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,680 throughout both parts is that it's a really self important 203 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:33,120 movie. It is really treating itself 204 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,440 seriously and it is about a story that should be treated 205 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,720 seriously. But it's also within a genre of 206 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,080 movies that I've just seen so many of. 207 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,960 And I will really felt like there was a missing contemporary 208 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,600 struggle or lens on this film outside of what art making is 209 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,440 like in our capitalist society today, which was which was 210 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,400 surprising considering the subject matter, considering what 211 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,680 you could do about the cost of the immigrant experience in 212 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,240 America in the exploitation of Labor in the ruling class versus 213 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,040 the working class. I was hoping for more 214 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,440 exploration of identities in particular that are not on the 215 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,480 forefront of these kinds of stories because we have seen the 216 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,880 Jewish experience in American epics before. 217 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,400 We have seen the Italian experience in American epics 218 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,760 before. So these are things that we have 219 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,920 come to be normalized to in American cinema from the greats, 220 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,840 right? From a Martin Scorsese, from a 221 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,000 Paul Thomas Anderson. And so I guess I guess what I'm 222 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,400 saying is the movie fits neatly in the Canon of a godfather of a 223 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,720 There Will Be Blood. But I was almost frustrated by 224 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,000 the the repetitiveness of what I was saying because if you have 225 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,040 seen these movies, there is a little bit of just like 226 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,800 mimicking going on. Yeah, I was. 227 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,400 I mean, it's hard obviously with the like, not to see There will 228 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,280 be blood, right? Yeah. 229 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,440 Not to see, you know, PTA like all over this movie. 230 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,760 And I don't mean theft, by the way. 231 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,800 I just mean, like, I was hoping for something a little bit 232 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,280 original, considering the runtime. 233 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,080 Yeah. And considering that this 234 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,960 director had, you know, the full editing power that, you know, 235 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,680 the studio allowed him to to do what he wanted. 236 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,040 We always tend to, you know, like fall on the side of like 237 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:19,160 people absorbing different choices, like as influences, 238 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,400 right? Like I unless there's something 239 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,120 that's I don't know, we never a lot of times we you hear critics 240 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,720 say like this is copying this movie and therefore, like, I 241 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,520 don't like it. And they Ding points off. 242 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:30,440 Yeah. Which is not what we do. 243 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,080 Yeah. Like movies are inspired. 244 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,880 Yeah, there's homages. It's not that for for me, but it 245 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,080 does. I think it the reason I had a a 246 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,600 similar reaction too, was like I'm seeing a lot of like 247 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,680 similar, you know, influences, but you would expect like in a 248 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,000 in a movie coming out in 2024 from a kind of a similar like 249 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:57,320 thematic story that we've seen in movies, tropes, I guess that 250 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,360 are. Outdated. 251 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,520 Yeah, that you see then like reoccur in this movie and then 252 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,360 also kind of like what you're saying, like maybe not 253 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,600 challenging the audience is as much as you could or, you know, 254 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,280 telling a more complex story as you could with because that 255 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,800 we've already seen, you know, different parts of this story. 256 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,080 And so I think that's that's ultimately where I came out on a 257 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,760 toot and you know, part of the going into the brutalist as a 258 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,800 masterpiece conversation, discussion rate the expectations 259 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,520 that I that also obviously impacts a part of, you know, it 260 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,520 has to. But I I do think just like if I 261 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,200 were to see it without that, I would still have like similar 262 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:42,440 thoughts, right? Like. 263 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,920 Yes, yeah. And and I guess to contextualize 264 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,040 what we're talking about when I said self importance and that's 265 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,520 kind of what we're talking about with this movie. 266 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,400 Like it does it is it self congratulatory in a sense? 267 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,200 And I think it is, but. It's not that the story 268 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,000 obviously like, isn't. Important. 269 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,440 Yes, the story is. The it's acting like the movie 270 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,800 is almost like already a Canon movie. 271 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,920 Yeah, it's. Because of the influences it's 272 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,800 playing with. You know, exactly. 273 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,760 And I appreciate that about it. Like I love angry radical 274 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,080 storytellers who are telling you what's important about the world 275 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,440 because I like artists with a vision who are unafraid of a 276 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,600 studios, like maybe opinions on what that vision should be. 277 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,840 I think that's what's fascinating about movie making 278 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,480 in particular, because we're seeing dozens of artists in 279 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,880 their opinions on screen, like Adrian Brody's performance as 280 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,360 this lead character, he might have a very different view of 281 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,960 Laszlo's journey in this movie then that filmmaker and the 282 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,600 writers did right. So like that's a really 283 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,280 interesting part of the movie making process in this movie 284 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,840 feels very self aware of those things. 285 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,400 So there's a lot of like subjectivity in the film, but 286 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,320 there's enough dense layering of symbolism and visual metaphors 287 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,200 or literalizing some of those metaphors. 288 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,120 But in such like interesting ways sometimes, sometimes that 289 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,680 allows for so many different, I think interpretations of the 290 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,960 film, which I really appreciate. But I think that self importance 291 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,880 can also be good in in other ways. 292 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,120 Like this movie, a lot of in a lot of ways is about an artist 293 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,160 trying to not sacrifice too much in order to make their art to 294 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,600 stamp their legacy. Now who co-ops that legacy in 295 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,240 the future is an interesting conversation. 296 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,960 But this movie is like using a historical or contemporary 297 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,000 struggle to get a movie off the ground that is about movie 298 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,400 making. Like Brady Corbett is doing 299 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,960 that. And I think that's fascinating. 300 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,800 Like, sometimes we, you know, as people in the film critics space 301 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,280 will go, OK, do we need another movie about what it's like to 302 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,560 make movies? But if you can do it in this way 303 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,800 where it's through a story that is like, authentic and about a 304 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,200 marginalized experience about something that is very poignant 305 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,920 today too, unfortunately, that is very interesting. 306 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,520 And I think he was able to accomplish that. 307 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,640 Now, one of the reasons it's not going to be one of my favorite 308 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,560 movies of the year is what I've been talking about, which is 309 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,800 that it didn't stand out enough to me as an original piece of 310 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:53,880 movie making to actually warrant its 4 hour existence. 311 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,520 And I'm not saying that from a pace, a pacing point of view. 312 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,560 I'm saying that from like, I watched 4 hours of scenes and 313 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,520 sequences, absolutely. But I watched 4 hours of scenes 314 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,640 and sequences where I was like, oh OK, I'm being odd in moments. 315 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:09,960 These film makers did their homework. 316 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,760 This is like a 20th century, mid century immigrant tragedy. 317 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,760 But the movie also feels like it's not interested in being 318 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,360 provocative. It's interested in making a 319 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,880 statement. And so it's very loud, it's self 320 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,880 assured. It's gorgeous. 321 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,400 It's undeniably gorgeous. But I feel like I was conflicted 322 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,760 walking out because it's the kind of movies that I've seen 323 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:35,640 sometimes that are far too controlled, far too formal, far 324 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,320 too unmessy and sanitized. And I do feel like this movie 325 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,400 could have been a little bit more radical and what it was 326 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,080 trying to say, considering, especially if you take into the 327 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,160 fact what we know about the filmmaker and him having access 328 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,760 to doing what he wanted to do with the movie, which is 329 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,000 amazing, right? And he still wants to make it 330 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,960 commercial. But I was just really surprised 331 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,600 considering like our current climate that this is as far as 332 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,400 it went. And I guess we can get into 333 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,839 spoilers in a second because I feel like we've had all the the 334 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,240 non spoiler stuff. But again, I'll, I'll, you know, 335 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,440 recommend it to any listeners or anybody watching at home, even 336 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,680 though we're talking about this movie maybe lacking a new depth 337 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,319 or original depth and layers throughout the entire runtime. 338 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,560 And maybe it does retread like an archetypal story that we've 339 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,079 seen before. It does it at such a high level 340 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,480 that it's hard to deny it as a successful work. 341 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,440 You know, it is a successful work. 342 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,040 It knows what it is and it's certainly doing it at a high 343 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,200 frequency and at high level, but I'm just not sure I, I just 344 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,120 expected more considering the subject matter. 345 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,280 That's like, that's where I was leaving the movie. 346 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,680 I was, I was impressed by the cinema of it all and let down a 347 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,480 little bit narratively in terms of where it went with it by the 348 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,160 second part of the movie. Yeah, I think just I think 349 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,040 observing our vibes after the first half, I think I still like 350 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,240 it more than you. But well, I mean, we'll see in 351 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,280 the spoilers here as as we go into as to like why we both I 352 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,720 guess felt like it felt a little short in the second-half. 353 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,680 But yeah, I mean, it's definitely obviously well worth 354 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,400 your time to go see it on the biggest screen possible. 355 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,760 It is beautiful. And there are just some, I think 356 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,560 what we'll get into in a second different like things that I 357 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,760 was, I was maybe like underwhelmed by. 358 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,600 Yes, no, yeah. OK, so let's put a spoiler 359 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,040 warning out now. I'm putting out a little bit 360 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,240 early just cuz there's a lot of movie to talk about, a lot of 361 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:35,000 movie to discuss. OK, so like I said, on paper 362 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,400 this is a tragic immigrant tale, one that you may seem familiar 363 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,600 to you, but Corbett also is more interested in exploring that 364 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,480 relationship between art and power that we were just 365 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,960 discussing. Specifically, the Patreon artist 366 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,480 dynamic between this character named Harrison, who is played by 367 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,840 Guy Pierce, who is this charismatic and repulsive patron 368 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,480 of the arts, but also industrialist, war profiteer. 369 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,560 And Lazlo are main character who is consumed by his desire to 370 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,560 leave a legacy, but also to get back his family and the 371 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,600 conflicting goals of those things sometimes. 372 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,400 And what the American spirit or ethos can do to someone as a 373 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,440 sort of parasite, even somebody who's coming from such a tragic 374 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,800 life as somebody who escaped and is seeking refuge from the 375 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,520 Holocaust as Lazlo did. And the film leans on 376 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,600 archetypes. So we're going to be talking 377 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,080 about those and blunt symbolism. We'll try our best to unpack 378 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,120 that as much as we can after just seeing it last night. 379 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,560 And we also have other characters like Laszlo's wife 380 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,240 play by Felicity Jones, who is a classic like troubled 381 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,680 intellectual wife trope, which we'll definitely discuss. 382 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,600 But she's also like the moral compass character, a little bit 383 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,120 like the Kitty Oppenheimer situation from Emily Blunt's 384 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,560 character a year ago in Oppenheimer. 385 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,040 And then we also have their niece who is a symbol of trauma, 386 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,400 and we'll talk about whether she could have gotten more to do. 387 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,880 There's a subplot with a heroin addiction for our lead character 388 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,200 that feels well executed because it's used for dramatic tension, 389 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,400 but also feels overly familiar and also feel sometimes forced, 390 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,600 especially his relationship with his friend who who is a single 391 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,000 father, who we'll discuss as well. 392 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,600 And so there's a lot of tropes that we're we're talking about 393 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,960 that we'll get into the story and in terms of why it feels 394 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,880 hollow. And there's, you know, design 395 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,640 stuff in this movie that we'll talk about too that we loved 396 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,800 quite a bit. All right, so this film opens 397 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,480 with a breathtaking sequence. We have a monologue from a yet 398 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,480 to be named young Jewish woman who is the niece of Laszlo or 399 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,520 lead character and is Laszlo, I believe, right. 400 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,960 I apologize if I'm I'm mispronouncing that. 401 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,920 And it's actually his wife who's writing the letter. 402 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,040 Oh, is it? Yeah. 403 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:43,880 Oh, OK. All right. 404 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,080 Well, as she's writing the letter to our lead character, 405 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,200 we're overhearing that that letter, reading that monologue 406 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,760 while we're for watching a group of refugees aboard a chaotic 407 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,840 ship being greeted by this inverted image of the Statue of 408 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,640 Liberty, which is a wild shot. And I'm sure those of you who 409 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,400 have seen the movie or haven't seen the movie and you're still 410 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,360 listening, you know what I'm talking about because it's been 411 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,920 everywhere online on film Twitter. 412 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,760 And we have this troubling monologue paired with this 413 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,560 striking visual, which is then again paired with another tool 414 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,480 of cinema, which is this great score from Daniel Bloomberg or 415 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:15,480 Bloomberg. I apologize. 416 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:23,840 This is a this actually I think deserves the word monumental. 417 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,000 The score is phenomenal. It's my extra credit of the 418 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,080 movie. It's what I think deserves more 419 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,680 recognition about the brutalist. It is a subversive American 420 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,800 anthem inspired score because it also feels like a little bit 421 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,720 fascistic. It is a very, I think 422 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,680 conflicting tone running through the score. 423 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,160 It is a really interesting a piece of music and this sequence 424 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,680 really sets the tone for the story and the exploration of the 425 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,840 journey of this refugee in his journey of a as a struggling 426 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,360 artist attempting to create a legacy for himself and their 427 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,240 identity. So it is a, you know, right away 428 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,760 this is going to be a massive story of displacement, 429 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,120 acculturation, survival, reinvention, something you 430 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:03,560 probably would realize on rewatch. 431 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,720 But something I thought about last night is when we see him 432 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,480 waking up from like this deep slumber that he may have just 433 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,680 been given the drugs at that point in time, the heroin that 434 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,080 he eventually becomes addicted to because I think he gets woken 435 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,640 up by somebody on board. So after the 1st 5 minutes 436 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,200 you're like oh this movie not only feels like an important 437 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,840 movie, but it also knows it's important which goes back to 438 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,000 that. Yeah, I mean when, But when we 439 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,960 to be fair though, like when we first saw that opening sequence, 440 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,720 I was like, whoa, OK, this is what everyone's talking about. 441 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,520 I felt really emotional, genuinely watching it, yeah. 442 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,200 Yeah. And also I think that I really 443 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,760 enjoyed the the like pieces. Every time we had a letter 444 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,880 reading over images, I think it was really successful. 445 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,440 I think this is the only piece that you shared with me when 446 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,760 during intermission. But you're like that feels like 447 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:51,680 that's been in his mind for a long time. 448 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,200 Like to just open that movie. Yeah. 449 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,360 I mean, it was so well executed like just an amazing opening to 450 00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,160 a movie cinematically. And I I think also like the 451 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,560 emotional aspects of it all this like overlapping, right like 452 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,320 history in a moment to was was really well executed. 453 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,960 And we see that like as we continue into the story, also 454 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,160 towards the end when we see the wife writing a letter to. 455 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,440 Yes, yeah. I mean, it's I felt like I was 456 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,600 trying to think what, when's the last time I felt that kind of 457 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,840 awe inspiring feeling where cinema evoked like these 458 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,000 multiple different feelings at once just from specifically the 459 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,440 score. And I rewatched the, I think the 460 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,200 25th anniversary of Phantom Menace, Star Wars Phantom Menace 461 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,280 in theaters like a year ago and which was a great experience. 462 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,240 I'd never seen it in theaters. We were too young when it came 463 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,240 out originally. You were sick. 464 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,160 So I had to go see it by myself and I did not realize because it 465 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,400 was a daytime showing, that a bunch of parents are gonna be 466 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,680 taking their little ones their kids. 467 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,680 That's amazing. So there was a little boy 468 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,360 sitting next. To their first experience. 469 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,760 Yeah. And we would get that Star Wars 470 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,680 opening crawls like da, da, da, da and the crawls like about 471 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,480 trade tariffs and all that. And this boy is like, you could 472 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,680 feel like he was talking, eating chicken fingers. 473 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,640 And he, like, I, I could tell like, this was going to be an 474 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,360 experience. Yeah. 475 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,240 But as soon as that crawl hit and the music started playing, 476 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,600 he couldn't move. I could, like, sense him being 477 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,360 like, wow, I'm watching something important. 478 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,400 Yeah. And it felt, I felt similar to 479 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,080 that kid watching the beginning of the in a much more tragic 480 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,000 way. Also Duel of the Fates. 481 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,320 I guess I'll just give this kid a shout out. 482 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,640 I don't know who he was, but like, he's going to have a great 483 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,520 life, I think. Because as soon as the Duel of 484 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,040 Fates pop up and Darth Maul is fighting Obi Wan and Qui Gon 485 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,880 Jin, he literally gets up from his seat and just stands there 486 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,360 watching the Duel of the Fates. And I felt that. 487 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:33,480 I felt seen. He's just stubbed with him. 488 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,600 Oh man, yeah. But anyways, it's a strange 489 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,520 tangent for this movie, but I'm sure you guys are. 490 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:39,920 But yeah, no, I mean, I think that. 491 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,120 It has that feeling, yeah. When watching score is really. 492 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,080 It's almost like pressuring you to stand up. 493 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,720 It's like it feels like you. Mean like the that kind of 494 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,440 anthem. Yeah, the anthem of it, it feels 495 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,040 like it's subverting the Pledge of Allegiance or something like 496 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,200 that. I felt like that. 497 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,840 I I didn't think about it that way, but I do think, you know, 498 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,120 dramatically that that does make sense in terms of like the 499 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,120 subversion of the American dream. 500 00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,440 And you're right. I mean, it does have like 501 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,640 aspects of like an anthem type of musical piece. 502 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760 So yeah, I mean, that's that's really interesting. 503 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,000 I felt like this kind of like melancholy in moments. 504 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,040 It was played in slower moments. I thought it was just a really 505 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,880 well used I was. Going to ask you like, did they 506 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,400 reuse it throughout the movie and they play it, they slowed 507 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,480 down. In the second part, yeah, there 508 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,880 was like, yeah, it was, it was just used in different again, we 509 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,600 just saw it last night. But but yeah, I think it was 510 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,560 used in different ways with it was slowed down in certain 511 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:37,480 sequences, but I I've always felt like emotional when it was 512 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,480 in the background. So we are introduced to Laszlo 513 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,960 who we see at a a brothel with a sex worker and then we see him 514 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,800 kind of enter into the New York scape. 515 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,360 I think the sexuality of this movie and like what of the 516 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,160 characters in this movie is fascinating. 517 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,360 That's probably like a deeper discussion on multiple RE 518 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,680 watches and the kind of psychosexual relationship 519 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,320 between a few different characters. 520 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,400 But we do see that as the opening scene of this movie. 521 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,080 And then we see him as this like, Hungarian Jewish 522 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,480 architect, Holocaust survivor, basically just trying to find a 523 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,280 job. Yeah, he goes to meet his 524 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,920 cousin. He arrives in post war America. 525 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,600 Also a really emotional like moment of them embracing and him 526 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,960 finding out that his. Bus. 527 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,360 His wife and his niece are still alive. 528 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,760 Yes, we find out later on in a really also like sad moment, 529 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,360 that that's his sister's child, right? 530 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,760 And that she was sick and so like her his connection to her 531 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,960 that we don't know yet. But I just the performance from 532 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,480 Adrien Brody immediately was I I was really again, I was just 533 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,440 like continuously like, OK, this is what people are talking 534 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,960 about. Like this is this movie is 535 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,960 really going to go somewhere. But I think the those moments I 536 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,360 never totally got back to. But I but still like a very 537 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:53,400 impressive opening and an amazing performance from Brody. 538 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Right. And I think especially because 539 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,000 Brody comes into America with that dream that we know so well 540 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,160 to be much more complicated when examined. 541 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,640 But like, you can feel him knowing that he's entering a 542 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,800 place that accepts immigrants and he knows that because he's 543 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,720 been told that. And he's also like on the ship 544 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,160 and he, you know, lands and then only realizing throughout the 545 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,600 movie, slowly but surely, this is a place that might be 546 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,240 excluding immigrants. And really they only accept 547 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,240 immigrants when it's convenient to their labor, like the the 548 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,040 country's economy. And depending on what families 549 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,280 control, the economies of which regions will depend on, like 550 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,560 what immigration status looks like in that region. 551 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,480 And so in this case, you have somebody who is like looking for 552 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,680 something better than cheap to free labor. 553 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,040 He's going to work with his cousin who owns a shop who is 554 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,160 completely acculturated and like, sacrifice his own identity 555 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:40,720 really, right? He. 556 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,440 Changes his name right to like Miller and Sons. 557 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,080 He's Catholic now, as he says. Yeah, and I thought, I thought 558 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,720 also that was like a not completely like in the 559 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,960 second-half where I felt like there were some narrative 560 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,480 choices that felt like they were really like, I, I felt the 561 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,040 choice like written on the page that here I felt like the 562 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,280 conversations between him and his cousin and and Laszlo of 563 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,480 like, you know, the Americans like family and they want a 564 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,680 certain name, right. And like the the kind of like 565 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,800 stakes, like an and political like landscape that is embedded 566 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,160 in that conversation where you like kind of feel the tension as 567 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,440 well of his cousin's experience, like living in America. 568 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,520 And we kind of know where Laszlo's, you know, story might 569 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,200 go. I I thought that was all like 570 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,040 really well done in terms of dialogue and in the first part. 571 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,040 What did you think about the relationship to Laszlo, his 572 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,920 cousin and the cousin's wife? The partner, because that I 573 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,880 think was a confusing aspect of the movie for me. 574 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,960 I couldn't tell how much. And I'm, I'm forgetting her 575 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,560 name. I don't have it here, but the 576 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,200 partner of the cousin, how much she was making xenophobic 577 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,040 comments or how much that she was in a relationship with 578 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,280 someone who was toxic, who was manipulating her, which is the 579 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800 cousin figure who is Miller now. But the person who owns this 580 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,080 furniture store that Lazo is going to work at for the next 581 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,520 like 25 minutes of the movie until he's inevitably kicked out 582 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,440 after a deal with Guy Pierce's character goes wrong. 583 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,280 And he's also told by his cousin that he made in that, that 584 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440 Adrian Brody's character made an advance at his cousin's wife, 585 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,400 which we know not to be necessarily true. 586 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760 If you trust the POV of Adrian Brody's character, which I will, 587 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,400 I'll take that part of this movie literally. 588 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,200 So I was going to ask you, what did you think about the wife 589 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,440 figure? Because she makes a comment 590 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,440 about his nose, which I couldn't tell if it was a xenophobic 591 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,760 comment, a comment out of prejudice, or if it was 592 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,560 literally a comment of him hitting his nose because he took 593 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,360 drugs because it. Was supposed to be both? 594 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,600 Both like it's supposed to be like the prejudice embedded. 595 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,520 Interesting. OK, that's what you're talking. 596 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,960 About yeah comment of like care and so it was kind of this right 597 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,120 how he later and this has been like the big scene that has is 598 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,600 used to market the film is like Adrian Brody in the car leader 599 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,280 with his wife. If they don't want us here 600 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,320 explaining to his wife, like, why would his cousin's wife say 601 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:08,880 that? Right. 602 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,760 And so I I viewed like this kind of her as a character of what 603 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:20,680 we'll later, you know, see in the I'm forgetting Guy Pierce's. 604 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,720 Harrison. Harrison. 605 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,840 Character right and basically like everyone that Lazla will 606 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:32,040 will come to like interact with mostly so I I just viewed it as 607 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,920 like the kind of the first step of this. 608 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880 There's always a second meaning, yeah, behind this American 609 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,160 acceptance of somebody who ultimately they have a strong 610 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,880 prejudice against, if not racist against. 611 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,000 So, yeah, that's fascinating. I well, the the the reason I'm 612 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,440 asking is because the cousin inevitably tells them after a 613 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,080 long party together and the deal breaking through with Guy 614 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,760 Pierce's character, that yeah, you made an an advance at my 615 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,400 wife, so I'm not going to hurt you, but you have to leave. 616 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,640 You're no longer working with me. 617 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880 And we do know from being in, you know, Adrian Brody's 618 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,200 characters POV that night when he was forced to dance with his 619 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,960 cousin's wife, that when he was leaving, the wife said you 620 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,160 should find a job elsewhere. You could be used elsewhere. 621 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,920 You're really good at what you do, which could also be read as 622 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,280 what you're talking about. That double meaning of Oh, is 623 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,440 this a xenophobic person, a Catholic American who's trying 624 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,640 to push this Jewish person? Outside of her family, right? 625 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,200 Or does she actually like or does she actually care about 626 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,960 him? And she does think her husband 627 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,760 is a little bit volatile, which we do know from the way he was 628 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,400 just. Out meaning that she maybe 629 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,840 didn't even say that to her husband, her husband just or the 630 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,160 cousin just said that. The way I read it, which is why 631 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,880 I asked you, because I did read a few reviews from like Ehrlich 632 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,400 this morning and out of Navin and I didn't see this anywhere. 633 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,640 But the the way I read that scene where the cousin comes 634 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000 into Asian Brody's room and kicks him out was that he felt 635 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,960 shame for what he did that night. 636 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,800 And also the way that that deal fell through and he put the 637 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,560 blame on Adrien Brody's character as to not reflect on 638 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,160 himself. And also to tell his wife that 639 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,240 it wasn't his fault. Because we saw there were 640 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,040 moments where we saw we were left with the wife's POV that 641 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,280 dance night that they had. And she felt kind of 642 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:07,960 uncomfortable by the whole situation. 643 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,120 She was telling him to stop forcing Adrien Brody's character 644 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,040 to dance with her, which again, the double meaning could be 645 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,040 because she, you know, is anti-Semitic, right? 646 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,960 But it also could just be that the cousin had basically because 647 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,560 of this American disease that the movie is trying to explore. 648 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,840 In this film, he just was a volatile person that she felt 649 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080 uncomfortable around. Yeah, Well, yeah, I mean, we 650 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,240 definitely saw the this piece of like, you know, forcing Adrian 651 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,160 Brody to dance with his wife in terms of like, this is like my 652 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,320 property look like that the life I've built sort of strange. 653 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,200 You know, I think again, it's obviously like a comment not 654 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,720 necessarily totally on the character, but of like the 655 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,240 environment of like this capitalist, right, like system 656 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,240 that his cousin is now having to participate in and like where he 657 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,720 is assigning his worth. He also like at one point during 658 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,520 the conversation asked Laszlo, like, is it smaller than you 659 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,040 thought it was going to be? And Laszlo says I had like no 660 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,320 expectation. And so like this idea, right, of 661 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,040 like measuring yourself against like like money as so I think 662 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,160 that was definitely like a, a piece of it, but that's 663 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,440 interesting. That's a really good point 664 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,480 because there is a level of like Laszlo being kind of confused by 665 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400 self-interest. He seems like somebody much more 666 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,480 interested in collective interest. 667 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,920 Like he doesn't maybe even know that there was like a a debate 668 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,400 between those two things. And he comes to America and his 669 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,280 cousin, who is like fully assimilated, has like turned 670 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,680 into something he doesn't know like from name to the the 671 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,600 performance he's putting on as an American. 672 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,440 Well, I think that's why the conversation was so interesting. 673 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,200 It was like you felt the reason for the, the distance of like, 674 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,040 like I don't recognize you anymore, sort of, right. 675 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,360 And and then, yeah, we obviously have that moment of he goes to 676 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,520 build the library Guy Pierce's house, right? 677 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,800 Because Guy Pierce comes home and during, well, I think 678 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,680 they're like basically done building the library. 679 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,040 They should put the books in. Yeah. 680 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,800 And can we get? One of those for our movies 681 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,960 that'd. Be safe. 682 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,960 Yeah, all those shelves. But but then right Guy Pierce 683 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,080 obviously it was like just throws this huge fit. 684 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,960 He can tell us like in a very aggressive man and he. 685 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,440 Also racist because we already met Adrian Brody's character's 686 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,520 friend at this point, right, Who we'll talk about in just a 687 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,800 second. But yeah, he makes a comment 688 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,920 that is racist. And so we're recognizing that 689 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,840 who this is at this point, this is like a industrialist. 690 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,520 This is one of these tycoons who sell what sold weapons to who. 691 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,239 Question mark is like an interesting conversation, so. 692 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,159 Yeah, but I think it was like smart to introduce us to the Guy 693 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,639 Pierce character this way because then we also understand 694 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,880 like immediately what's underneath this kind of meeting 695 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,960 at the coffee shop later on, also like his children, right? 696 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,320 It's not a surprise when later on, like the hairy character or 697 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,640 just very soon after the hairy character, his son decides not 698 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,040 to pay them, right. And even though they've built 699 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,720 the whole library like and what he says later on to Laszlo's 700 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,320 character. So I I think that it was smart 701 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,720 to introduce us to the Guy Pierce character in that way. 702 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,360 Yes, and we're about to get deeper into that. 703 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,680 Let's talk about the friend real quick of Laszlo, where we meet 704 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,040 Gordon, who is played by Isaac Day Bencholi, I believe, is how 705 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,640 you pronounce his name. I apologize if it's not. 706 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,400 He does a very good job in this movie. 707 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,040 Doesn't get a lot to do. Is this black single father 708 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,120 who's just trying to meet ends meet, you know, or make ends 709 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:36,160 meet as as Laszlo is and Laszlo eventually hooks him on heroin 710 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,360 as they go out that's. What we're supposed to 711 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,880 understand from the, like, jazz club, Yeah. 712 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,280 Yeah, as they go to jazz clubs and they don't use heroin as 713 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,920 like a judge mental device in this movie. 714 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,000 It's really just a way for these, like people to self 715 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,200 medicate during this like, tumultuous period in American 716 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,640 history post World War 2, or at least for groups who have been 717 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,680 historically marginalized. And so the movie is doing a good 718 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,560 job of not this movie sometimes does condescend to audience to 719 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,120 the audience, and we'll get into that in Part 2. 720 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,560 But it doesn't do that here where we just realize that these 721 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,880 are, you know, socially, emotionally, intellectually, 722 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,360 like people who deserve more than what the these elitist have 723 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,560 but ultimately are like stuck in this like oppressive, 724 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:17,160 exploitative position of Labor. But I will say this next to the 725 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,760 intellectual but troubled wife figure in this movie, I think 726 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,680 the most cringe archetype or trope of this movie is the white 727 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,000 protagonist having a black friend who's underdeveloped and 728 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,040 not really a character, even though we learned something 729 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,760 about his son, even though we learned that they're the mother 730 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,200 and the and the partner died when he was very young. 731 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,560 Yeah. We have like the dinner scene, 732 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,800 but still. Yeah, it feels forced. 733 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,240 It's the character is basically like a device to then tell us 734 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:45,000 about Adrien Brody's character. Exactly. 735 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,880 Yeah, in the worst part of it is politically like black 736 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,560 characters are used all the time in in whites, quote UN quote 737 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,600 white stories like this because they're trying to get the 738 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,600 audience to attach or project morals onto the white 739 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,600 protagonist. And so in this case, while it 740 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,040 might seem totally normal for people to see a a middle-aged 741 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,720 Jewish man coming into a community that is not his own, 742 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,080 but he's being accepted by it. And he's in a bread line and he 743 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,000 makes friends with a single black father and his son in 744 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,440 front of him. And he says, I'll save your spot 745 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,840 in line the next day. You might think, well, that's a 746 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,960 common thing to do, maybe in the Jewish community, a collective 747 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,760 interest in in your fellow person in your community. 748 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,600 That's perfectly a fine reading of that. 749 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,240 But historically in movies, this is usually a trope that has been 750 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:32,360 evolved from like a standard of practice to try to get audiences 751 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:33,760 to connect to the lead character. 752 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,120 Historically, usually it's not individuals like human beings. 753 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,280 It's usually like Ripley's saving a cat from the Nostromo 754 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,840 and Alien, the save the cat trope, which is like, oh, 755 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,840 Ripley's a good person. We swear because she like wants 756 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,760 to save her cat. That's my favorite movie of all 757 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,880 time. She is a good person, but in 758 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,720 this film with the Brutalist, what was troubling about it is 759 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,200 it plays in so many tropes like this, yeah, that feel 760 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,200 unexamined. And it does make you reflect on 761 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,000 how much of this movie is just so archetypal that it just does 762 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,920 not have any originality of its own. 763 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,400 But what it's archetypal in, like the Canon that it's playing 764 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,160 in and what it wants to be anointed in, is such a high 765 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,800 degree of filmmaking that you can't help but respect it or 766 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,600 admire it, but you're just hoping for a little bit more 767 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,800 considering the fact it's 2024. You're like, if you're going to, 768 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,120 you know, basically, I don't want to say completely reused, 769 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,040 but right, if you're going to like incorporate influences like 770 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,040 from these kind of epic stories that we've seen, you should, 771 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,120 even though it was written seven years ago, who cares? 772 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Like you should definitely be updating a lot of these like 773 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,040 problematic tropes, which we, I try not to say like the word 774 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,520 problematic, but. Yeah, it's like a trigger word 775 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,600 for so many people. But in this case, like tropes, I 776 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,800 mean tropes, they're a reason they're tropes. 777 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,640 They're always like the successful bits of movies to get 778 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,720 a genre film made. In this case, we're watching a 779 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,240 melodrama, really. And so like, this is a big trope 780 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:58,280 of it, which is the white protagonist has a black friend. 781 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,760 And it's great for like black actors like this. 782 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,120 The man who plays our our lead friend in this movie, who gets 783 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,520 paid to be in this movie. But unfortunately, like, he's 784 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,520 playing an underdeveloped character, much like Felicity 785 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,960 Jones's character is the wife in this movie. 786 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,560 She gets a lot more to do than he does, but her character is 787 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,560 really a tool or a device to really explore the the brutal 788 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,240 genius. Exactly. 789 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,480 It's not that, like it's not that Kitty Oppenheimer, but 790 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,360 yeah. Yeah, it's not, but it's still, 791 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,720 she's used in a very similar way like I, you know. 792 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,920 If only she had the code to understand her husband's brain. 793 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,920 Yeah, although I thought that was AI did think it was a 794 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,520 beautiful line at the end when she was like the man I married 795 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,480 is locked inside and like I can't, I don't have the code to 796 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,160 decipher. And the movie does feel poetic 797 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,280 and yeah, like. That Yeah, yeah. 798 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,200 And I was like that like sounds great, but I and also I felt, 799 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,040 you know, the I I think I like understood obviously. 800 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,200 And like there were successful pieces of like going or 801 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,040 following their marriage too, right. 802 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,240 But in terms of like how she was used, it was like so again, like 803 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:05,080 a a trope of a woman, like essentially, especially during 804 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,160 the sex scenes, I was like, this feels so from like. 805 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,200 A male gaze. Yeah. 806 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:15,920 It felt so like, you know, her character was specifically a a 807 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,960 device to like tell us that he's a genius. 808 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,960 It's just like an eye roll. And then also then like, you 809 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,320 know, there's this a duality that's often in these like very 810 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,640 unexplored roles or like, I guess just like not complex 811 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,920 where it's like she is supposed to be kind of like, again, 812 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,280 uplifting our main like male protagonist. 813 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:41,840 The great woman behind the great man. 814 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,360 Yeah, But then like with Guy Pierce's character, she gets to 815 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,840 like, intellectually spar with him. 816 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:51,120 And it's just this like, cringy use of like putting in like a, a 817 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,880 woman literally what Guy Pierce says, which is like supposed to 818 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,480 be ironic of like, oh, the woman behind the man, right. 819 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,200 Because she is basically right. She's like they're saying like 820 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,200 you're insulting me when I went to Oxford and like basically 821 00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,760 like we see what we'll go into that in the second-half of like 822 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,160 how the family is treated by the guy Pierce character. 823 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,800 But I was so I I think, like put off, I guess, by how her 824 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,000 character is written. And I get I guess, again, like 825 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,520 this is a part of why I can totally understand like the 826 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,880 cinematic aspects of how this movie looks and also like story 827 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,840 elements of why it is an important story to tell. 828 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,680 But these dated tropes just felt so much like I obviously can't 829 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,240 say this is a masterpiece level. And I'm just surprised that like 830 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,640 people are saying that because it feels like AI don't know, you 831 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:43,160 know? What's? 832 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,080 Strange to see now. Can I bring up a movie that's 833 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,600 very divisive? Well, first of all, to expand on 834 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,720 your point, if anybody's like, all right, I don't know if the 835 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:52,960 great woman behind the great man trope is that big of a deal. 836 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,640 It is a very big deal right now. Like last year alone we had 837 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,880 Oppenheimer, Ferrari, The Iron Claw, there are several films 838 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,880 that all Bradley. Cooper. 839 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,680 Oh yeah, Maestro. Like, there are several films 840 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,600 where they are attempting to be historically accurate but 841 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,320 socially progressive, where they're like, actually there's a 842 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,280 pretty smart woman behind this guy who's a genius. 843 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,280 And so like, we should shout her out for a few scenes. 844 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,040 We'll give her like a monologue at the. 845 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,120 End but just a few. To save the lead and Kitty 846 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,920 Oppenheimer gets to do the I don't like your phrase. 847 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,560 And then in this movie, Felicity Jones gets to make the metaphors 848 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,720 of the movie very blunt. And so she does get like a a 849 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,120 tragic scene in her own right. And that's supposed to be 850 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,440 empowering of Laszlo. We'll get to that at the end. 851 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,080 I was about to say, oh, a movie I thought a lot about while 852 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,520 watching The Brutalists. Well, first of all, I thought a 853 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,080 lot about Martin Scorsese. Obviously, as we're big Scorsese 854 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,680 heads, thought a lot about Paul Thomas Anderson heads or Paul 855 00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,520 Thomas Anderson because we are PTA heads and he's probably the 856 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,840 best director of the 21st century. 857 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:52,960 And we thought about you too, yeah. 858 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,280 And all. The Paul Thomas Anderson. 859 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,640 Heads we did and then I thought about Damien Chazelle because we 860 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,680 had Sean fantasy. We had Sean fantasy from the Big 861 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,960 Picture, The Ringer's Big Picture and Amanda Dobbins 862 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,040 podcast as well. Great show. 863 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,800 They just talked about the Brutalist a month ago with Adam 864 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,480 Naman, who we've also had on the show. 865 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,280 But we had Sean on recently for Ridley Scott, but two years ago 866 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,520 for the Damien Chazelle episode. And the reason we had him on is 867 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,160 I wanted to ask him like, hey, do you think Damien Chazelle is 868 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,640 our next PTA, next Martin Scorsese, next Spike Lee? 869 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,960 Like, is this somebody that's going to going to be exploring 870 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,920 the the plight of the American dream, the plight of the 871 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,400 American experience or the lies of it? 872 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,320 And I don't know if he was completely sold by that idea, 873 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,840 but we did discuss it for quite a while. 874 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,280 And I'm bringing that up because Chazelle's made some of the 875 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,440 great like tragedy of being an American of the modern era 876 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,800 contemporary world movies like from Whiplash to La La Land. 877 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,800 First Man, which is arguably his best film that explores this 878 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,640 very well and very complex ways where there is a a brilliant 879 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,000 woman behind the man. Except the way that Ryan Gosling 880 00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,160 portrays that man is very flawed and very like, not genius man 881 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,480 coded. But the movie I was going to 882 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,920 bring up is Babylon, which is a movie about cycles of 883 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,080 exploitation, which is a movie about an immigrant experience, 884 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,920 which is a movie about marginalized communities that 885 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,000 are not usually portrayed on the forefront of these kinds of 886 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,320 stories. The Manny character in that 887 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,880 movie and that lead actor who played Manny, like, not getting 888 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,800 much love for that film. And Margot Robbie, of course, 889 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,280 getting love, but not not even enough. 890 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,320 I don't know if she was nominated as a for an Oscar. 891 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,320 I think it was just the score from Justin Hurwitz, which was 892 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,160 phenomenal. But that movie was treated not 893 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,640 very seriously because it didn't treat itself so seriously. 894 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,120 Yeah. Because it was aware of what 895 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,000 genre it was playing in. It was aware it was. 896 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,320 Like very explicitly talking about like the film industry, 897 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,680 which the Brutalist also is, and in terms of like the creative, 898 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,160 right, like choices and the constraints, right. 899 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,360 But but yeah, it's interesting to see like such a negative 900 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,600 reaction to Babylon when it is like playing in similar, why 901 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,480 people are so interested in the Brutalist as well, in terms of 902 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,120 like the film commentary or the creative commentary. 903 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,320 And I really think it's because like Diego Calvo is like playing 904 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,800 like a Mexican immigrant in that movie. 905 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,560 And it just doesn't to the film going audiences who are still 906 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,680 primarily being targeted for white audiences or like the the 907 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,080 industry is still targeting the demographic white audiences and 908 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,760 overly representing them. I really think it's as easy as 909 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,000 that, which is that people came to Babylon to see Brad Pitt and 910 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,200 Margot Robbie and realized it was not their epic. 911 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,680 And it was actually about them leaving the history of cinema 912 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,480 and the reasons behind that. And actually like introducing 913 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,240 people who have not been in the forefront of movies and art and 914 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,520 commercialism throughout the history of this country in that 915 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,600 movie, not being explored or examined that thoroughly with 916 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,640 such like importance. The way the brutalist is as 917 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,120 really made me like reflect on even though we love that movie 918 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,720 when it came out, but now I even love it more like I want to 919 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,480 rewatch it because the brutalist seems like I'm bringing this up 920 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,480 because of the trophy figures in this movie. 921 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,920 It seems kind of very much targeted at an older white 922 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,080 audience who deserves to like. Yeah, audience to or a Ward's 923 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,840 body. And in a Jewish community, who 924 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,200 deserves a movie like this? And it's not just directed at a 925 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,520 Jewish community, obviously, it's for like any groups who 926 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,000 have been marginalized in their immigration or their in their 927 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,120 immigration journeys. But I don't know, I just thought 928 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,920 about Babylon and was frustrated by the lack of support for a 929 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,760 movie like that. Babylon's an interesting like 930 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,240 movie to bring up. Because it is exploring a lot of 931 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:20,640 again, like the the constraints within the industry that Corbett 932 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,200 is, has like talked about, you know, in terms of how he is 933 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,160 writing Adrian Brody's character as an artist and how he 934 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,480 identifies like with the specific artistic themes of the 935 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,880 movie and, and putting things into movies. 936 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,200 But Chazelle noting how self serious of a concept that is. 937 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,600 So he finds absurdity. Yeah. 938 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,160 And he makes like fart. Jokes, I know there were 939 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,200 something so like, I mean like for Babylon, I wasn't like this 940 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,000 is like 100% masterpiece. Even though I love Damien 941 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,480 Chazelle there, there were certain pieces of the humor or 942 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,960 like parts of it that I didn't love. 943 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,480 I just don't totally land. Yeah, but there's a fear of 944 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,720 being too serious. I will say with like the 945 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:03,080 Brutalist, there were elements I think that in the first half 946 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,480 reminded me of PTA in like a good way in terms of the like 947 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,800 when Guy Pierce, you know, says we're going to build a library, 948 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,440 a church or I guess the church comes after the funding, but 949 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,760 what else? Like a gymnasium and a Community 950 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,560 Center, whatever. But yeah, the swimming pool 951 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,160 comment is what I'm thinking of is where he he starts to he 952 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:29,240 calls Adrian Brodian at like the crack of dawn and he is hungover 953 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,480 and he's like, just wait a second. 954 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,880 Like I need to get this idea out, you know, like dreams slip 955 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,800 away. And and then Adrian Birdie gets 956 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,840 his notebook out to kind of write down the ideas, obviously 957 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:42,080 that that guy Pierce wants to incorporate in this giant 958 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,960 Community Center. And he's like, let's we got to 959 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,040 build a gym and I loved wrestling. 960 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,720 So like we have to have this and Adrian Birdie's like, well, 961 00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:53,720 let's make a swimming pool maybe, right, like a a good 962 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,480 suggestion. And Guy Pierce is like, I don't 963 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,400 swim. I don't swim. 964 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,320 Yeah. Why would I do that? 965 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:58,720 Why would we need a swimming pool? 966 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,560 I don't swim. So like those moments I think 967 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,120 we're we're like deserved and like natural, like in terms of 968 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,440 the humor and the absurdity of this Guy Pierce character. 969 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,040 Similar to when we're having the conversation between the two of 970 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,480 them over drinks or like when he continuously, you know, keep 971 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,960 saying both at the coffee meeting and over drinks at his 972 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,800 house for the dinner party of like, you know, I've said this 973 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,560 before, but I find our conversations intellectually 974 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,840 stimulating. Like, you know, just basically 975 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,280 like showing us that he's like a clown, you know? 976 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,120 He's a pseudo intellectual who made a lot of money from his dad 977 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,320 or his family. Like he has generational wealth. 978 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,560 Yeah, and it's not just him, right? 979 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,840 He's like representing, right? The this like elite class who 980 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,360 basically holds this status and gets to like make these choices. 981 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,320 Who also have like the jewels of exploitation. 982 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,320 Like there's slow Mos in this movie that are brilliant. 983 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,160 Slow Mos. Yeah, you. 984 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,480 Start seeing Adrian bodies character start recognizing the 985 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,560 amounts of wealth and then maybe connecting it to what we assume 986 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,280 off screen is that he maybe saw in this post Holocaust world. 987 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,840 And so like that connection of like exploitation is really 988 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,760 important. It's not connecting America to 989 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,440 the Third Reich, but it's connecting a sort of ethos that 990 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,640 would lead to something like that, like a genocide. 991 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,600 And I think that is really smart filmmaking that is like visual 992 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,720 metaphors at its finest in this movie. 993 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,680 That PTA also does really well in most of his films. 994 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,160 And I think there would be blood the master. 995 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,280 But then Phantom Thread is the movie I want to bring up. 996 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,520 But because that movie finds humor in a depravity, that movie 997 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,640 finds humor in like really tragic elements of that of the 998 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,960 lead character almost journey in that movie as somebody who if 999 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,720 you watch that movie close enough, it's one of our, you 1000 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:37,840 know, favorite movies of all time. 1001 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,000 We did it for New Year's. We did from last year, yeah. 1002 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:41,800 One of my favorite episodes we've ever covered. 1003 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,600 I'm all sad we did it because like now I don't. 1004 00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:47,040 Know well yeah cuz it's not forever over we could do it 1005 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,760 again in a couple years whenever they release that next PTA film 1006 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,280 but her character is someone who is fleeing from the Holocaust as 1007 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,200 well and the resources of the of of what Daniel Day Lewis was 1008 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,360 doing to build the dresses is very similar concept to what 1009 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,480 we're watching happen except the roles are switched here. 1010 00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,240 I think as the artist sort of the roles are different and the 1011 00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:09,720 brutalist. And so I'm bringing that up 1012 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:13,160 because Phantom Thread finds humor in the elitism, which is 1013 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,280 what the brutalist does. But that's the easiest thing to 1014 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,160 find humor in. The hardest thing to find humor 1015 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,600 in is the actual like scathing commentary that's being made. 1016 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,280 And I think that the Phantom Thread PTA is unafraid to do 1017 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,280 that. Whereas I do think, and I'm 1018 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,920 sorry to be comparing directors in movies here because they're 1019 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,640 different, obviously, but you could tell how much the DNA and 1020 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,880 formula of those movies is they the brutalist would not exist 1021 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,680 without Phantom threat is what I'm trying to say, or there will 1022 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,240 be blood or The Godfather. And so like, it's important to 1023 00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,320 like, if a movie is trying to hold itself to those kind of 1024 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,840 standards, to examine it with a similar lens. 1025 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:47,000 Or it's being lauded as. Or of being lauded by others 1026 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:47,800 critics. Yeah. 1027 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,440 So it kind of demands this kind of critical conversation. 1028 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,240 And I do think he misses a little bit more of that scathing 1029 00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:56,960 humor that would need a more interesting and dense commentary 1030 00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,280 that some of alluded to. And I'll give credit to some of 1031 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,680 those readings at the end of this conversation and epilogue 1032 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,960 in particular. But yeah, I just, yeah, I just 1033 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,800 wish there was more of that dark, dark humor. 1034 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,880 Yeah, it's, and it's not necessarily that I I don't think 1035 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,200 I need levity. That's not why I want the humor. 1036 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,160 Yeah, right. That's how it's used though. 1037 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,440 Yeah, but it's I do appreciate the moments of seeing like of 1038 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,880 showing us, right, which we can already observe. 1039 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,160 But like the Guy Pierce character, like his clumsiness 1040 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,920 and like him basically again, like having this myth of 1041 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:34,040 meritocracy, like explaining why he deserves his wealth kind of 1042 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,480 idea. And again, like that being him 1043 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:41,160 telling him his like life story of like making his business, 1044 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,800 which he says, like the press was saying, you know, this was 1045 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,400 my like first business. I was doing so well. 1046 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,920 I was actually like going under like. 1047 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,440 And then we have the insert shots of like jewelry and 1048 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,440 dollars being put down for like a card game, right? 1049 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,040 So those insert shots were also really well done. 1050 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,440 And that's why I like the first half of the movie so much as I 1051 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,320 felt like it actually had moments of like highlighting the 1052 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,840 absurdity in its own way of this wealthy figure and the 1053 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,360 contradictions through a humor, again, that wasn't serving as 1054 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,600 levity, but was actually like serving as a part of the 1055 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,120 thematic characterization of the Guy Pierce character. 1056 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,840 And then when we get into the second-half, it's, again, it's 1057 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,000 not that I need humor. I don't need humor in a movie 1058 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:26,200 like this, but I do think that it was like missing maybe like a 1059 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:30,080 almost like not self-awareness. That's not the the best way to 1060 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:35,520 put it, but but almost like a an awareness of like the the kind 1061 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,840 of self seriousness that you're talking about that made it not 1062 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,760 as impactful in the second piece of it. 1063 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,640 Again, not because it's not a serious like story. 1064 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:50,160 It's just that it it it was hitting too hard on a lot of the 1065 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,840 like plot points that felt then undeserved, weirdly, because 1066 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,160 it's like a four hour movie with intermission. 1067 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,640 But that's just like how I kind of felt at the end. 1068 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,800 And I don't need again like you like I drink your milkshake. 1069 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,320 Like I don't need like that kind that kind of humor like that. 1070 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:10,040 I think it would be fun though. Yeah, but but I think the the 1071 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,000 kind of. But there's a repetitiveness. 1072 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,640 Yeah, and what's? Exploring, which I think is 1073 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,240 deserving considering the subject matter to a certain 1074 00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:19,640 extent because we've also seen this so many times in movies. 1075 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,840 So like, if people were coming out of this film, going back to 1076 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,080 expectations and going like 3 1/2, four-star film, pretty 1077 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:26,560 good. Hopefully get some room for best 1078 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,440 picture, that'd be great for like independent cinema. 1079 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:29,840 Yeah. I'd love that conversation if 1080 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,400 that's what was happening. That's how I feel currently. 1081 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,200 Yeah. And I think if it was that it's 1082 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,080 a five star movie that should win best picture that's being 1083 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080 talked about as the XYZ movie. That's kind of unfortunately 1084 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,400 what our role is like movie podcasters is like have a 1085 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,400 conversation in a vacuum about the film and also have a 1086 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,400 conversation about the conversation around the film. 1087 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,800 And this one is in particular, like kind of very challenging 1088 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,760 because people that are notable critics are like talking about 1089 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,800 this in a dense way that I just didn't have the same experience 1090 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:55,320 with it. Yeah. 1091 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,040 And that's totally fair of like audiences. 1092 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,400 You did too, like, just like normal movie going audiences. 1093 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,880 If you thought you'd like this like layered out of body 1094 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,400 experience with this movie, I get it. 1095 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,480 I think what you're speaking to in Part 2 is that the 1096 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,480 repetitiveness of the themes or explorations of what it's trying 1097 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,640 to do and then the peppering in of like spicier subjects that 1098 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,600 are a little bit more complicated to make it seem 1099 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,320 smarter, more provocative than it is. 1100 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,800 Really irritated me in the second part where I was like, 1101 00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,320 you can't just like bring up the state of Israel, like not 1102 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,920 explore that a little bit more, which some have argued that this 1103 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,240 movie does. And we'll talk about like the 1104 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:27,880 ethno state, you know, consequences of what happens in 1105 00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,360 this movie in the epilogue. Just shortly, because I'm still 1106 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,400 thinking, thinking about the film. 1107 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:34,960 Yeah. And so there's a lot going on in 1108 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,800 the movie, but also not a lot in some ways that people have like 1109 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,360 projected onto the movie. And so yeah, I, I hope we're 1110 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,320 giving context to where we're talking about the humor at 1111 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,200 least. Yeah, and I think I, you know, 1112 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,200 also appreciate that the second-half is like tonally 1113 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,040 supposed to be a shift from the first half, right? 1114 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,280 Like we see the gates when they're opening and in the first 1115 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,600 like moment we see the home and it's like kind of this lavish, 1116 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,960 like, you know, home that we. Bruce Wayne's Manor. 1117 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,960 Exactly yeah, like it's in there's a lot of like land 1118 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,560 around it right. It's almost like what we have 1119 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:13,400 been taught through like the just like American culture to be 1120 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,520 like, I want this wealth sure thing, right? 1121 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,840 Like I'm seeing Architectural Digest like celebrity homes on 1122 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,680 like. And so. 1123 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,800 But in the second-half, right when we go back to the gates and 1124 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,960 it's like we're closing out when the Felicity Jones character, 1125 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:35,120 right is going into the mansion, we see like the the gates in the 1126 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,280 dark. You're like, that place is like 1127 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:38,440 rotten. It's like haunted, right? 1128 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,960 It's like, yeah, like you feel like the the rotten roots like. 1129 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,920 And so that was effective in. The full journey of the American 1130 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,440 acculturation experience is effective, yeah. 1131 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,760 The nightmare, right? The nightmarish like second-half 1132 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,120 of the movie completely changing tones for the first half again 1133 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,960 to highlight what we've been talking about. 1134 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,440 This like American nightmare of, of commenting on the American 1135 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,280 dream was effective, but it just didn't work for me. 1136 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,800 I think I was I was responding emotionally to like the 1137 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,360 historical aspects of the story, but to the story itself. 1138 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:18,120 Again, like having knowing the influences that the filmmaker is 1139 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,800 like incorporating was again like underwhelming in a lot of 1140 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:27,160 ways because it felt weirdly stitched together. 1141 00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,800 Yeah, because there's multiple commentaries going on, like when 1142 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,240 he find when his wife arrives on the train in the second-half of 1143 00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:33,480 the movie to start the second part. 1144 00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,520 Yeah, I'm getting I'm tearing up like because you don't think 1145 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,040 she's coming. At one point he's like, no, 1146 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,080 that's not her. Yeah. 1147 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,800 And and then you see her in a wheelchair and he's like, what 1148 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,360 happened to you? I'm taken. 1149 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,760 I knew in that moment I was like, oh, I like this story. 1150 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,640 I like what's going on in this self-contained melodrama. 1151 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,600 And then we have the kind of like the art verse commodity and 1152 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,920 the kind of commodification of your interest or creativity of 1153 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,640 American culture that Laszlo has to deal with a reconcile with a 1154 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,600 man who arguably like profited off of his own cultures, like or 1155 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,200 his own identities, like genocide. 1156 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,920 And so like you're reckoning with that watching this, this 1157 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,200 this almost like elevated scenario of the cost of being a 1158 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,880 capitalist in America that is really successful and effective. 1159 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,040 And those two parts of the movie are the most interesting. 1160 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,080 I think when the movie starts leaning too much in a meta 1161 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,400 commentary of like, this is what it's like to make something. 1162 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,880 This is what it's like to make a movie or a monument to 1163 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,720 something. I find it to be really 1164 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:30,280 pretentious and like over saying it's welcome and I think. 1165 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,880 Using this like story as a vehicle for that is strange to 1166 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:36,280 me. Well, because then it just feels 1167 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,400 contradictory because it's a it's about the the cost of 1168 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,800 wanting to make something as a monument to the cost of making 1169 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,240 spectacle while criticizing spectacle is like a really 1170 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,440 confusing idea. We talked about this with Jordan 1171 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,120 Peele's Nope a few summers ago, where that movie was so amazing 1172 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,480 as an allegory and so dense about the history of 1173 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:57,560 exploitation in North America. But like what was in about 1174 00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,920 Hollywood is like this kind of manifestation of that 1175 00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:02,880 exploitation and the fallacy of the American dream. 1176 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,600 But with the irony of that movie that Jordan Peele was reckoning 1177 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,360 with it was that he was creating a spectacle in IMAX, exploiting 1178 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,320 spectacle, talking about the exploitation of others based on 1179 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,400 people making money off of spectacle. 1180 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,800 And so like that movie knew it was in this kind of catch 22 1181 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,960 almost parody situation where it was doing what it was 1182 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,720 criticizing, which I still thought was brilliant because if 1183 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,360 you're going to, if you're going to do it, be aware of it. 1184 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,640 And the brutalist sometimes didn't feel aware that it that 1185 00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,720 it was doing that, if that. Makes sense. 1186 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,960 I think that like the it's not that we can't explore like 1187 00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:37,080 Laszlo's artistic ambition, right? 1188 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,080 Like as an individual and like what he's not willing to 1189 00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,360 compromise and like as a a full complex like figure, right? 1190 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,600 Doesn't need to be this like tragic archetype, but to 1191 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,040 incorporate like the the constraints within Hollywood in 1192 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:58,560 a contemporary sense into the story felt strange because other 1193 00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,360 aspects weren't as explored in a story that we have seen before. 1194 00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,680 Yeah. The biggest one being Laszlo's 1195 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,680 political ideologies or the way he viewed his art. 1196 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,760 There was a moment when he's talking to Guy Pierce at the end 1197 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,680 of Part 1. We're going to go to Part 2 soon 1198 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,000 because we've, I think, stuck on a few different issues for too 1199 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,600 long. And sorry if we're rambling. 1200 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,640 I think we're doing things that are coherent here, but. 1201 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,240 I feel like we're figuring it out this. 1202 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,560 Has been a really interesting conversation. 1203 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,040 It's like revealing. I think of like of the different 1204 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,920 interpretations people are going to have on this film. 1205 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,520 But Laszlo tells him, like, I look at my art as like a 1206 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,760 political vehicle essentially. At least that's how I 1207 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,000 interpreted what he was trying to say without revealing that, 1208 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,680 like, I'm also looking at my art kind of being this radical 1209 00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,760 contrast to whatever you got going on. 1210 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,080 Like that's kind of what he was saying without without Guy 1211 00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,000 Pierce's character being totally aware because he was so 1212 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,360 delusional and talking about like his mommy daddy problems. 1213 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,920 And, you know, him not giving money to people who need it and 1214 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,560 him trying to do this commentary or, or let's say, like justify a 1215 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,240 conservative ethos or traditionalist ethos of like 1216 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,040 pull yourself up by your bootstraps and just make it 1217 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:05,040 work. I'm not going to give you a 1218 01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,720 handout. Which he then, you know, the 1219 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,160 director and writers then literalize the end of the movie 1220 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,000 when he like says that to Laszlo before he assaults him. 1221 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,200 And so like this movie is is doing so many things at a high 1222 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,360 level. And then as soon as it tries to 1223 01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,760 treat itself as a, as a. Has a political commentary as 1224 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,920 soon as it brings in Israel, as soon as it brings in like an 1225 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,800 ethno state, as soon as it brings in like the consequences 1226 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,480 of American imperialism and exploitation have led to others 1227 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,640 like violence begetting violence, others wanting to 1228 01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,360 commit violence against others. That's where it gets complicated 1229 01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,880 because we don't really know a lot of Laslo's internal life. 1230 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,160 We don't know a lot about what he thinks politically about the 1231 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:41,640 world. And I know that's a part of the 1232 01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,440 character arc because he is a Jewish man in a time where that 1233 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,360 his identity is not accepted and he's being forced to like shift 1234 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,800 his identity around. But the movie, it's epilogue in 1235 01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,680 the second part of the film, demands you care about the 1236 01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,000 political commentary or political ethos of this figure, 1237 01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,000 at least in my for my perspective. 1238 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,440 In terms of the focus on the art. 1239 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,280 The focus on what the art means, yeah. 1240 01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,720 And ultimately, I think Laszlo treated the art, treated the the 1241 01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,520 movie, if you will, for the meta commentary that he's making of 1242 01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,240 this era as a part of his personal legacy. 1243 01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,760 The only thing that he can actually have a say on in in 1244 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,880 this culture that says that you need to like stamp something, 1245 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,120 you need to own something and you need to turn that into your 1246 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,880 own kind of brand or identity. And he and he felt like he was 1247 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,800 like really being poisoned by this American culture ethos. 1248 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,360 And by the end of the movie, when he finally gets the 1249 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:31,880 monument made and we have the epilogue, then the movie 1250 01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,560 transforms into something else that I think the whole film 1251 01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,280 didn't actually contextualize or demand. 1252 01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,280 Then it makes you re examine like what the movie was actually 1253 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:46,440 trying to assert or explore that I think is actually not well 1254 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:47,880 explored. And and we're going to get into 1255 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,480 that on that blog. And I want to be too ambiguous 1256 01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,960 because we're already in spoiler section, but it would take a 1257 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,120 whole like conversation about it so we can move on in the plot. 1258 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,800 But I'm only saying that to say that the reason why we're maybe 1259 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,520 sound conflicted is because there are like two or three, 1260 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,160 four different stories going on in this movie. 1261 01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,240 And I like 75% of them. And the other parts that don't 1262 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:05,920 work I think really don't work for me. 1263 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:07,760 Yeah, that, that makes sense. Yeah. 1264 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:12,600 And I think like there were, you know, moments of layering the 1265 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,160 story and also like arch archival footage, right. 1266 01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,680 And I feel like if you're going to incorporate archival footage, 1267 01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:24,280 like it, it didn't fully, I think explore what it was 1268 01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,840 featuring in the kind of like radio broadcasts or the kind of 1269 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:34,280 like advertisements or the, you know, the, the specific like 1270 01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,040 images that it was showing. Like it wasn't really. 1271 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,760 I think I I felt unexamined by the end for me. 1272 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:43,200 Yeah, it felt like supplemental stuff there. 1273 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,360 It felt like it was like almost, and maybe this isn't fair 1274 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,800 because I'll see it again, but it felt like it was almost like 1275 01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,240 I'm not going to totally have the conversation in the 1276 01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,200 narrative. I'm just going to put maybe some 1277 01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,040 different like contextual aspects in the background with 1278 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,880 this archival footage and then let the audience come there on 1279 01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:06,480 their own. And I don't think that in a epic 1280 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,800 this big that that's actually like necessarily it's not like, 1281 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,000 oh, that's interesting subtextually and like for the 1282 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,280 audience or trusting the audience, right? 1283 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,240 I actually think that it's doing something uninteresting again, 1284 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,880 because we've seen the story before in in like movies or like 1285 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,080 a special, like telling the story at this particular time. 1286 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,880 So that's why I felt like it was not where where people could be 1287 01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:31,400 like, oh, it's just trusting the audience. 1288 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,840 I felt actually like underwhelmed again. 1289 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:37,280 Well, also considering the convenient choice of when to be 1290 01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,000 transparent, when not to be. Because this movie literalizes a 1291 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,520 lot of its visual metaphors. Yes. 1292 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,040 Exactly worth thematic aspirations. 1293 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,720 It just it picks and chooses like when to be. 1294 01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,440 Really the easiest thing to be on the nose about, but it's not. 1295 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,320 And so like that. And again, I think sometimes 1296 01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,320 when we have these conversations and I'll move on to the plot, 1297 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,160 but. This is the first time we've 1298 01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,960 like talked to each other about it too, so we're kind of like 1299 01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:01,560 making sense. Yeah, yeah. 1300 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,200 But like I, like, we just watched Ocean's 11 recently and 1301 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,880 we're going to be covering that in the Patreon soon because 1302 01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,000 Soderbergh has a few movies coming out soon because he's a 1303 01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,400 king. He's making two movies a year. 1304 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,840 But Ocean's 11 in caper movies, like in heist films is a 5 star 1305 01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,440 masterpiece. If you compare if Ocean's 11 was 1306 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,040 like, I'm a Great American tragedy, well then I you're in 1307 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,160 that sub genre now. So I'm going to be comparing you 1308 01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:24,440 to the movies within that sub genre, like within that vacuum 1309 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,440 and that space. And so that's why we keep coming 1310 01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,320 back to this movie on like so many different levels. 1311 01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,080 Because normally if a if a normal movie was like this 1312 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,760 ambitious and this good in a let's just say A1 to $2,000,000 1313 01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,240 drama of like a family drama, a Noah Baumbach movie or something 1314 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,520 like that, I'd be like, you know, it is one of the 1315 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,200 masterpieces of the year, you know, and like DD earlier this 1316 01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,800 year, like considering that movie's budget, it's scope, like 1317 01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,040 I thought that was one of the best films of the year that 1318 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:55,480 nobody discussed, right? This movie is like I am pig. 1319 01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,240 I mean business. This is a serious film or like. 1320 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,280 Queer like we just talked about or probably mentioned earlier in 1321 01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,960 the podcast also, yeah. OK, I don't want to be 1322 01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,440 repetitive. So we meet Harry who is the son 1323 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,040 of Harrison. Just realized the the name 1324 01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,640 similarity there played by Joe Allen. 1325 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,560 Best performance we've ever seen from Joe Allen. 1326 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:15,520 I haven't. I mean the. 1327 01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:16,520 Favorite. He's really good. 1328 01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,320 He was good in. He's good some Claire Denise 1329 01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:19,560 stuff. He's good in Yorgo stuff. 1330 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,120 Yeah, he's almost, it's interesting. 1331 01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,920 Like I feel like him and Nicholas Holder both doing this 1332 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,000 kind of like entitled right. Manchild. 1333 01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:33,240 Yes, exactly playing this like bratty figure almost, and I feel 1334 01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:38,360 like Joe Allen. I, I, I guess I didn't like, I 1335 01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,600 haven't seen him in a lot and so like, I was impressed by his 1336 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,040 performance. Yeah, he's like a third or 1337 01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,240 fourth supporting role in most of the good work he's in. 1338 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,720 I haven't really seen him as a huge lead in anything. 1339 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:49,880 So listeners, let us know where this ranks up for you. 1340 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,080 But I I thought it was the best performance I've ever seen. 1341 01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,960 From yeah, I've only seen him using like comedy and like the 1342 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:54,640 favorite. So that's. 1343 01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,720 Why I wasn't sold on the accident at first, the beginning 1344 01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,400 of the movie. And then by the end, when he's, 1345 01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,920 like, infantilized by what he just heard about his father and 1346 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,240 you see him kind of like, retract back to this younger 1347 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,040 self, which, you know, there's a lot suggested there about his 1348 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,240 life when his relationship to his dad, He killed that. 1349 01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,080 Yeah, I thought so, too. When he's running around the 1350 01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:13,640 house and he's screaming out for his father, I was like, whoa, I 1351 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,560 didn't know he had this kind of depth as a as an emotional 1352 01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:21,280 actor. So, yeah, we see Harrison 1353 01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:25,000 dismisses Laszlo and his cousin. They make that racist comment. 1354 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,320 Eventually, Laszlo has to go back and find work with his 1355 01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:33,160 friend and then he's called back by Harrison to look at some 1356 01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,960 pictures he made across Europe or or sorry, buildings he 1357 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,560 crafted across Europe with the the brutalist design or or 1358 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,560 style. Also like an emotional moment 1359 01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:48,040 too of Adrian Bird's character, just like having the realization 1360 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:52,040 that there are pictures right? Of like what he's built right. 1361 01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,520 Like he has to keep it. He I like that when he gets the 1362 01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,240 check it's like almost like the pictures are far more right 1363 01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,320 meaningful to him like in folder. 1364 01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,840 Yes, and it's a lot to revealed here about this character, which 1365 01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,440 is unsurprising. But this elitist, you know, 1366 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,120 Harrison figure only cares about this man's skill set. 1367 01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:14,000 He does not care that he is a refugee seeking asylum in 1368 01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:15,760 America. And that's not why he's giving 1369 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,720 him a job or access to labor. Yeah. 1370 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,520 He's like, oh, you're a European architect with a with an eye 1371 01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,640 that is not here present and your cheap labor. 1372 01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,200 Yes. So he's going to manipulate him 1373 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,600 to serve his own ambitions. And you're hoping Laszlo can do 1374 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,840 the same, which obviously he does to a certain extent. 1375 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:36,880 And Laszlo gets injected into this world of a young Logan Roy. 1376 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,640 And we have this this kind of first part of the movie standout 1377 01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:43,560 moment, which is the party that we keep the kept bringing up 1378 01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,040 between these two individuals, talking about their their dreams 1379 01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,640 and Harrison revealing a lot of his greed and exploitation. 1380 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,680 And then eventually we get to I think the second part of the 1381 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:57,600 movie after this. I don't want to mess up this 1382 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:00,360 structure here. But yeah, we have Part 2. 1383 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:03,280 I think it's called the Hardcore of Beauty, which I should say 1384 01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,280 Part 1 was called the. Enigma of arrival. 1385 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:09,080 The enigma of Arrival. I think these are allusions to 1386 01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:13,320 popular novels or poems. But the second act shifts focus 1387 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,680 to the Laszlo family, as his wife, played by Felicity Jones, 1388 01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,439 arrives and his niece, played by RAF Cassidy. 1389 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:20,359 I believe that's how you say her name. 1390 01:08:20,359 --> 01:08:22,200 I apologize if you don't. She's very good in this. 1391 01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,920 And as far as what she's asked to do, which is play somebody 1392 01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:29,279 who is silent or mute because of like what had happened to her in 1393 01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:31,720 the Holocaust, you're not sure if it's because maybe she 1394 01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,120 doesn't speak English, even though it's been told us that 1395 01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,920 she does. And you don't know if her 1396 01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:41,200 family's trying to protect her. But both of these women, like, 1397 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:45,359 have deep scars from the war. We see that Felicity Jones's 1398 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:48,600 character is in a is wheelchair bound from a bone disease. 1399 01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,279 And we've talked about her as like this trophy figure. 1400 01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:54,399 But I think the performance is is good again, as far as what 1401 01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:57,399 she's able to do with that role, she's not giving a lot. 1402 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,880 And then we have the kind of that, the nice figure she does. 1403 01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:03,880 Again, she doesn't get much to do. 1404 01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,640 But there is a moment I want to ask you about with Harry, where 1405 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,279 I think there's a there's a suggestion of assault that's off 1406 01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:13,279 screen. Is that how you read that? 1407 01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:14,920 Yes, definitely. I feel like it was confirmed at 1408 01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:16,399 the end of the movie. I think so, yeah. 1409 01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:17,800 That's. Considering what the dad does. 1410 01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:19,680 Yeah, I mean, I definitely thought so. 1411 01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,720 I think we turned to each other to like almost confirm like, 1412 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,560 yeah, did that just happen? I think it it did. 1413 01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:29,520 And then but yes, at the end of the movie, it's like we almost 1414 01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,399 are are sure, right. Yeah. 1415 01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,200 Yeah. So assault becomes just like a 1416 01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,840 major motif of the movie essentially because like you're 1417 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:40,359 watching like kind of a, an implicit assault based on like 1418 01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:43,040 labor exploitation, which is an interesting way to frame it to 1419 01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,080 like parallel sexual assault with like labor exploitation, 1420 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,960 like these people, their their bodies being used for free to 1421 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,279 cheap labor. And so like that, that part of 1422 01:09:52,279 --> 01:09:55,480 it is, is interesting. I think some of this stuff about 1423 01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:57,480 that commentary feels a little bit forced. 1424 01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:00,400 That's also where I kind of like had. 1425 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,120 Under examined. Yeah, exactly. 1426 01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:08,360 Like it felt like a again, like a narrative piece or choice that 1427 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,000 was not fully explored and just kind of used to. 1428 01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,760 Create dramatic tension. Exactly dramatic tension or like 1429 01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,360 further a theme but not actually explored for kind of the 1430 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:24,040 seriousness of it on its own. It felt like a metaphor, which 1431 01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:28,960 was like, I think of a strange way to incorporate violence in 1432 01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:30,160 in a movie. Well, I would have. 1433 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,760 The metaphor makes sense to me. I think literalizing the 1434 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:37,880 metaphor into that actual act is questionable, and I think 1435 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,120 because it's underdeveloped as the dynamics between the 1436 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:44,040 characters to do that. It's the underdeveloped piece of 1437 01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,400 it is the. Is why it feels like a problem. 1438 01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,000 Yeah. And so, I mean, this is one of 1439 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,600 the gonna be one of those big subjective things. 1440 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:54,200 If people felt like they weren't, they were, you know, I 1441 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,000 think, let's say provoked by these things and it works for 1442 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,680 you, then I get it because it is a very long movie that is 1443 01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:01,560 immersive. So if you're falling, falling 1444 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,720 into these characters journeys and it's tragic, then I 1445 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,080 understand why. It distanced me a little bit, 1446 01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,880 but I understood why. He really wants to get across 1447 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,680 this exploitation inherent to America's economic culture. 1448 01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,800 So we see the two woman in Laszlo's lives start to adapt to 1449 01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,240 their new lives. Laszlo is starting to become 1450 01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,360 increasingly consumed by his obsession with completing the 1451 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,440 Community Center. And there are really some funny 1452 01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:26,320 beats of this movie along this line of the beginning of Part 2, 1453 01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,520 particularly in the moments about the actual, you know, 1454 01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,320 architecture debate, like what should be made in the in the 1455 01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,440 monument. Versus it's just kind of like a 1456 01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:40,720 funny conception at the start of having like a church, a 1457 01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:46,000 gymnasium, a library, like the that kind of concept like adds 1458 01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:50,000 to like and almost like PTA like piece of it, like you feel like 1459 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,880 but the architect they bring in. Who's debating and like Laszlo 1460 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,200 thinks he's like a hack. Oh yeah, the guy who had, he's 1461 01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,480 like, what have you made before? He's like a shopping centre. 1462 01:11:58,480 --> 01:11:59,120 Right. Yeah, yeah. 1463 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:00,720 Like, that's good. That's good stuff. 1464 01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:02,840 And like, the meta movie commentary works with that thing 1465 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:05,080 too. Because like, I'm sure Brady 1466 01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,600 Corbet has worked on movies where they brought in another 1467 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,880 director to look at something or another writer to look at 1468 01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:13,440 something who's maybe only made Thor 2 and you're like, does 1469 01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:16,080 this person really deserve to be looking at my screenplay that I 1470 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:18,520 worked on for like 8 years? I could see that kind of 1471 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:22,000 commentary between artists who are forced to like be at the 1472 01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,200 will of patrons. Like I understand like that as a 1473 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:29,160 commentary is really interesting, but inevitably. 1474 01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,240 Worked as far as like the artistic team that they're 1475 01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,920 exploring with like film making as like a, you know. 1476 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,720 Yes. So the project starts facing, 1477 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,280 like, very massive obstacles, derail supply trains, financial 1478 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:43,680 setbacks, clashes with Harrison's other developers, 1479 01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,240 like we were talking about. Now, the dynamic between Laszlo 1480 01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,320 and Harrison gets much more complex in the second-half of 1481 01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,760 Part 2 of this film. There's a key sequence that 1482 01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,320 takes place in Italy, I believe, at a marble mine. 1483 01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,240 Probably my second favorite sequence of the movie because 1484 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:00,160 it's experimental. Yeah, which I enjoy. 1485 01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:06,000 I really love this elements of like having the, the speech over 1486 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,360 the visual and not having it syncing up. 1487 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,440 I, I guess like, you know, with the, the actual man telling us 1488 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,760 his story. And also I, I think the, IT was 1489 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,040 also what, what maybe what I wanted more of the movie in 1490 01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,400 terms of like learning about different people in Lazlo's 1491 01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,320 life, like the idea, like, right, like dropping the rocks, 1492 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,200 right. To bring up another movie, 1493 01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:35,240 Killers of the Flower Moon, that platformed the Osage community 1494 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,600 at A at a dire time where you have like these American 1495 01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,240 industrialists oppressing, exploiting, and taking advantage 1496 01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,000 of a community committing like a local cultural genocide. 1497 01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,680 That movie platforms Lily Gladstone's character in such a 1498 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,120 way where she is like the main character of the movie, but it 1499 01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,760 also spends a lot of time with Leonardo Dicaprio's buddies and 1500 01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,080 like Robert De Niro. And you are wondering at the 1501 01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,320 into that movie, like, am I watching a masterpiece or am I 1502 01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,640 watching something that almost actually platformed a 1503 01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,080 marginalized community in an actually accurate way with 1504 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,360 actual screen time? And you do have to wonder that 1505 01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,440 when watching, I think Killers of the Flower Moon is a better 1506 01:14:08,440 --> 01:14:10,560 movie than the Brutalist because it does do that a little bit 1507 01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:11,880 better. But you have to wonder when 1508 01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,040 you're watching this movie. I feel the same way as you when 1509 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,480 I meet his single father friend, like Laszlo's friend, I'm like, 1510 01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:20,600 I want to know about this guy. When I meet the Italian guy who 1511 01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:22,600 fought with his counterinsurgency against 1512 01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,760 Mussolini's people and dropped marbles on them. 1513 01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,440 Where's that movie? Like I, there's a part of this, 1514 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:30,800 of these stories that are attempting to be more 1515 01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,560 progressive but still focusing on like white protagonist and 1516 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,480 antagonist that they can't get away from for whatever reason. 1517 01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:40,080 Probably because of the market system of movie making in 1518 01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,800 America, that you can't help but be a little bit underwhelmed 1519 01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,680 because the movie does feel like ultimately it is exploiting like 1520 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,360 tragedies of people in the periphery that you never really 1521 01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:52,720 see to create drama and tension. And I felt that in this moment 1522 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,560 where I was like, he was talking to his Italian friend, you could 1523 01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:57,120 feel like the, I think he was Italian. 1524 01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,800 I apologize if he wasn't, but that you can feel the, the, the 1525 01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,800 history between the two of them and you wanted to know more and 1526 01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,120 you don't ever get anything else. 1527 01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,720 And so I don't know if that's a credit to the movie for some 1528 01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:08,680 people, because you, there's a lot of moments like that where 1529 01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,920 you're like, oh, this is dense. Or if it's a criticism like how 1530 01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,560 I feel more so. So it wouldn't. 1531 01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:21,080 Be a criticism if we I think explored more like in the actual 1532 01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,160 narrative timeline of the story. I think so, too. 1533 01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:25,280 It's. I shouldn't have to be like, I 1534 01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,800 want an extra hour for this. You know what I mean? 1535 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,880 So yeah. OK, so we get in that night, we 1536 01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,480 find out that Harrison is in love with the marble. 1537 01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:38,920 He wants them to bring it over. And this whole sequence is the 1538 01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,240 only part of the movie that shot in a surreal way, as you said, 1539 01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:43,960 it's very hypnotic. We're like the, the words coming 1540 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,160 out of this man's mouth or are not, you know, in line with his 1541 01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:50,080 actual physical body, which is a, a really great shot. 1542 01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,280 We just watched Moonlight the other night. 1543 01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:54,960 They did a very similar thing. Was I did? 1544 01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,400 Did I see this right that the subtitles were in red? 1545 01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:01,040 During the sequence. Maybe I didn't notice that. 1546 01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:02,840 In other letters they were in yellow. 1547 01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,160 Oh, interesting. Maybe I'm like totally 1548 01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:06,800 misremembering. That's cool. 1549 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:09,000 Yeah, I thought maybe that. Some color changes. 1550 01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,640 And then later that night, something integral happens to 1551 01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,400 this plot, a big reveal. The movie literalizes a power 1552 01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:18,360 abuse that Harrison had over Laszlo psychologically and 1553 01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:20,680 financially. And then it becomes physical. 1554 01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:25,240 And we had moments in Part 2 where things like this almost 1555 01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,960 happened, where Harrison throws a coin at Laszlo at one point 1556 01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,720 when his family comes and he tells Laszlo to pick him up, to 1557 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:33,000 assert the power dynamic, to make sure his family sees that 1558 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,920 he is ultimately like this object to him this this 1559 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:40,920 commodity. And, and I don't think the film 1560 01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,760 makers of the brutalists or the writers who I think are 1561 01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,880 partners, the director's partner, and she's a film maker 1562 01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,080 of her own in her own right. I haven't seen her movies yet, 1563 01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,520 though I will. But this is a moment where I 1564 01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,960 don't think they totally trust the audience because we get this 1565 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,320 really abrupt, sexually violent scene of Harrison assaulting 1566 01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:03,120 Laszlo, where the movie shatters any kind of illusion of mutual 1567 01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:05,680 respect that they may have had for one another, but also 1568 01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,760 shatters the audience's interpretation of, like, what 1569 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,480 was going on between them psychologically. 1570 01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:13,440 And I think that was an important aspect of the movie 1571 01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:16,520 that really held me in as like, oh, this could be something that 1572 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,720 is a classic. Like, I really, it felt like the 1573 01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:20,520 Master where you're watching Joaquin Phoenix. 1574 01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,160 Yeah, yeah. And I, I think that that is like 1575 01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:32,400 the kind of literalizing and almost like not fully, I guess 1576 01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:37,920 to me, I guess at least considering again, like how 1577 01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:43,360 violence is incorporated to literalize the exploitation and 1578 01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,440 the like power dynamics of their relationship. 1579 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:51,240 I just think that it, it almost felt like, oh, like let's 1580 01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:55,560 incorporate this because it will really like allow the audience 1581 01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:00,120 to understand the true symbolic and physical violence. 1582 01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,320 But yeah, like I felt, I felt similarly and. 1583 01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,760 I felt like it diluted the message because of what you're 1584 01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,480 saying. Felt like almost for shock 1585 01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:09,720 value. Exactly. 1586 01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,040 And I felt I. Felt unbecoming of a movie like 1587 01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,000 this. Yeah, especially with like 1588 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,680 sexual violence to be almost used in that way. 1589 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:20,760 That's what I felt like it. It was just again, like 1590 01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:24,520 something that we are we keep coming back to of like to see 1591 01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:30,560 this in 2024 or you know, it it it's something that I am not 1592 01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,560 going to just be like, Oh yeah, this is I know some people were 1593 01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:39,240 again, like will see it as like this metaphor or like something. 1594 01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:43,560 Like an illusionary. Or like an aspect that just adds 1595 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:48,480 to the thematic right, like piece of the American Dream and 1596 01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:53,440 of the the Harrison character. But I just think again, like, 1597 01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,720 yeah, I just, I, I think I was off put because it felt like it 1598 01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:02,240 was used as a device as like something that was inserted into 1599 01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:08,240 the story that I actually felt like because it was unexplored. 1600 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:16,040 Similar to the the scene where we it's alluded to with the nice 1601 01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:17,200 like I, I. Just felt. 1602 01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,360 I I felt like it was weirdly not rushed, but like in this massive 1603 01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:25,800 again movie, because it's just like a piece of it and it felt 1604 01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:30,160 like it was there to to further a theme, further a plot, but 1605 01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,960 wasn't actually like totally. I don't know. 1606 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,240 Does that make? Sense no, there's two well to I 1607 01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:36,440 think you're what you're saying is right on. 1608 01:19:36,440 --> 01:19:39,120 I think the reason why it's hard to discuss is because this movie 1609 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,080 is so dense. But like it's not wrong for 1610 01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:43,800 doing what it did. It's just that it's using 1611 01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,760 something that's very serious, such as people self medicating 1612 01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,280 with drugs and alcohol in marginalized communities that 1613 01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,440 have been pressured to by the state where they only have where 1614 01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:56,880 people only have access and, and like lower class or impoverished 1615 01:19:56,880 --> 01:20:00,680 areas to barely any jobs or any access to unemployment. 1616 01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,760 But like, you see liquor stores everywhere, like there's drugs 1617 01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:07,720 being pumped into like. Urban areas and so like that 1618 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,960 kind of commentary being squeezed into this movie through 1619 01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:11,800 the heroine felt very unexplored. 1620 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:14,680 And I also feel like the same way when it comes to like 1621 01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:17,200 connecting labor exploitation with sexual assault. 1622 01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,200 It felt like these are big ideas that a writer had who was very 1623 01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,880 good at writing, almost like a novel that tried to squeeze into 1624 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,080 a movie that didn't have enough evidence, like through its 1625 01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:32,200 sequences to actually deserve or demand those kind of very 1626 01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:34,760 complicated parts of American culture. 1627 01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:39,240 But it did it to again, create drama or tension where there 1628 01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:42,800 wasn't enough of it to demand a four hour sitting of a movie 1629 01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,600 like this. And I think a lot of those 1630 01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,680 sequences, like the the bar sequence at the jazz club where 1631 01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:52,040 it's all hazy and our characters are on drugs, or the sexual 1632 01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,200 assault scene at the end of this movie between Guy Pierce and 1633 01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:56,840 Asian Brody's characters. They're very similar to me in 1634 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:00,400 terms of like inserts to create like attention moment or a shock 1635 01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,400 moment of like what's actually happening to our lead characters 1636 01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,080 because the film makers and writers are needing something to 1637 01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,920 like something propulsive. To keep the story going. 1638 01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:12,040 Deserved. And it's an undeserved tool. 1639 01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:17,400 You're 100% right to us, to me, you're a 100% right. 1640 01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:20,120 Also, commenters, chill out in the comments if you don't like, 1641 01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:22,480 if you don't like some things that we've been saying, Just it 1642 01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:25,640 would be nice to get like critical conversations about the 1643 01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:28,560 movies, about the movies that we discussed in the comments. 1644 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:32,240 Anything negative or like mean energy deleted. 1645 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:36,160 So we start seeing the end of this movie emerging. 1646 01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:37,840 You can feel it. It's about to conclude. 1647 01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,840 Something's about to pop off. You don't know what it is. 1648 01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:44,120 We see Felicity Jones's character emerge as like the 1649 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,800 quietly powerful figure in the narrative, which was a surprise 1650 01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:47,840 for me. And I was interested to see 1651 01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:48,960 where they were going to take that. 1652 01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:53,000 And she has a confrontation with Harrison in a really harrowing 1653 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,640 scene where in a sort of public act of defiance against the 1654 01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:58,920 people who were at his table, who I'm not sure that who they 1655 01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:00,960 were, I think there was an engagement going on, an 1656 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:02,000 engagement party. Yeah. 1657 01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:05,080 We can assume though that they were like important business. 1658 01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:06,520 It seemed like there was or something. 1659 01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:07,280 Yeah. Yeah. 1660 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:09,960 And so she accuses Harrison of assault in front of his family 1661 01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:11,960 and associates, the daughter of Harrison, who haven't really 1662 01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:13,840 discussed because she doesn't really have a serious character 1663 01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,400 in this movie because of, like, how masculine heavy it is again. 1664 01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,120 But she is like, kind of really thrown off the most by this. 1665 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,040 Yeah. And Joe Allen almost saw this 1666 01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:23,560 coming. Like his character saw it 1667 01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,520 coming. And like I already said, it felt 1668 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,560 like the end of Oppenheimer, a little bit like a a wife 1669 01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:30,600 sticking up for her genius husband who can't express 1670 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:32,920 himself because of the era, because of the time, because of 1671 01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,160 the politics. And so she did it for him 1672 01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:36,400 because she loves him, and she was. 1673 01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:39,880 Definitely written to be like an an almost empowering like 1674 01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:43,480 feature. Yeah of yeah, this this 1675 01:22:43,480 --> 01:22:45,640 character. But again, like it felt so much 1676 01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:50,480 like she is the like wife character taking a stand. 1677 01:22:50,480 --> 01:22:53,320 Like it felt very much within that to me at least. 1678 01:22:54,480 --> 01:23:00,520 And so it it almost again, because of how I felt like what 1679 01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:02,560 we just talked about like was not deserved. 1680 01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:05,760 Then that was a strange way to end the movie too. 1681 01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,840 That felt like undeserved for her character. 1682 01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,760 That's especially why the second-half of this movie kind 1683 01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,120 of like fell flatter for me. Yes, I totally get that 1684 01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,000 epilogue. And then we'll end out today's 1685 01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,360 episode, which is one of our longest episodes in a minute on 1686 01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,520 YouTube, I think. But this movie kind of demands 1687 01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:26,280 it because it's 4 hours long. We are shot into the 80s and you 1688 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,240 get an 80s version, like a techno version of the score, 1689 01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:32,360 which I enjoyed as we're kind of roaming through Italy at one 1690 01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,960 point or Rome and. Venice. 1691 01:23:35,440 --> 01:23:37,760 Thank you, Venice. And we get a retrospective of 1692 01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,600 Laszlo's work, which is held in Venice. 1693 01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,480 And it features the Community Center finally completed after 1694 01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:47,520 years of us not seeing it completed and a now adult. 1695 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:50,680 The niece is now an adult. The. 1696 01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,400 The wife figure has passed on, I think. 1697 01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,080 And Laszlo is aged. And the niece figure as an adult 1698 01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,520 has also a child who is played by the same actress who played 1699 01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,720 the niece throughout the film, which is a little bit confusing 1700 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,840 at first for me personally. Yeah, just for a second. 1701 01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:05,640 And then they say the names in the camera pans and you kind of 1702 01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:10,200 figure it out. There's a really important quote 1703 01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:15,680 as they're talking about how these these cathedrals that 1704 01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,320 Laszlo was building in the name of like judeo-christian culture, 1705 01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:20,760 which is a part of like something we didn't discuss of 1706 01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,560 the Pennsylvania committee arguing to Guy Pierce's 1707 01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,960 character that, you know, in order for you us to be OK with 1708 01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:30,520 you building this, it needs to have a church in it and this one 1709 01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:33,240 against lassos principles. Also, it's like a just a Jewish 1710 01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:35,440 man, but also someone who just wanted to build the architecture 1711 01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:37,560 as like a political statement or a place of refuge. 1712 01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:41,120 Didn't want it to include any individual religion because of 1713 01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:44,640 how that can obviously exclude others. 1714 01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:49,440 And so we get a powerful quote though from the niece character 1715 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:51,800 at the end here she says no matter what the others try and 1716 01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:54,600 sell you, it is the destination, not the journey. 1717 01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:59,680 And I've read some different readings of what the end of this 1718 01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,320 movie means. But we do know that the niece 1719 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,760 with her partner in Part 2 moved to Israel. 1720 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:09,120 They hate America, they hate what it's doing to Laszlo and 1721 01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,480 his partner as well. And they're saying that we need 1722 01:25:11,480 --> 01:25:13,960 to leave. We have a this ethno state that 1723 01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,960 will accept us. This movie is not ready to 1724 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:19,240 interrogate or have a conversation about the history 1725 01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:20,800 of Israel and whether or not it should exist. 1726 01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,640 It is not ready for that. However, it is also being 1727 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,400 allotted as a movie that is about that in a very troubling 1728 01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:30,240 time for Palestinians. And so like, you can definitely 1729 01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:33,960 see how an Oscars or an Academy could convince themselves that 1730 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:35,960 this movie is about that subject. 1731 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,560 And this movie Peppers in the word Israel or the state of 1732 01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:42,480 Israel enough times to make it seem like it's about that 1733 01:25:42,480 --> 01:25:45,520 subject, when in reality, it's less about that. 1734 01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:50,720 And it's more so to me about how Lazlo's art was being Co opted 1735 01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:53,720 in front of him as he is now this mute figure, you know, in 1736 01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,440 his old age. And he's watching somebody who 1737 01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:59,840 is interpreting their art how they see fit. 1738 01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:02,520 And they're using it maybe to justify something that he might 1739 01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:06,840 be terrified of, which could be an ethno state that could lead 1740 01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,520 to genocide in the future. And like that, I think it's more 1741 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,160 of the commentary that Corbett is trying to get at, which I do 1742 01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:14,480 think is really noble and admirable if that is the 1743 01:26:14,480 --> 01:26:17,040 interpretation that many people have or but it feels like the 1744 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:19,320 overall interpretation is actually this movie is about 1745 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:23,480 these people's experience of the destination of actually coming 1746 01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:26,360 back to your homeland, which I think is way more complicated. 1747 01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:29,680 And I don't think, again, the movie is ready to even have that 1748 01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:33,320 level of conversation. It's more so about history, art, 1749 01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:37,480 commercialism, the crossover of these things who tell stories, 1750 01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:40,600 who takes someone's art, who reinterprets it and why and how 1751 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,920 and for what reasons or purposes that I think makes this movie 1752 01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:46,600 good. At the end, though, it didn't 1753 01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,400 leave me kind of feeling like because it's so ambiguous and 1754 01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:53,960 it's not as successful and it's commentary something like last 1755 01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,680 year with his own of interest about exploitation and and the 1756 01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,640 effects of capitalism. Then I then I am left to kind of 1757 01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:04,800 be like, it feels like it took a safe route to not explore some 1758 01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:08,480 of these ideas and it took the more Oscar bait route of just 1759 01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:10,680 planting some of these things that are very topical. 1760 01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:12,720 You know, the script was written like seven years ago. 1761 01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:15,160 That conflict still existed 7 years ago. 1762 01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,160 And so I, I think that was a little bit of a sell out to me 1763 01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:21,760 as an audience member sitting in a four hour movie that is trying 1764 01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:24,320 to treat itself as this massive epic that is like a thematically 1765 01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:27,560 dense story. And I know people are going to 1766 01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:28,640 feel very differently about that. 1767 01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,240 That was my interpretation of the epilogue. 1768 01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:32,800 I will just add again, just to kind of end my point and you can 1769 01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:34,560 you can add anything else you want to say here. 1770 01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:37,840 It is very ambiguous, I think what what it means at the end of 1771 01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,520 this movie, which I do appreciate about any movie doing 1772 01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,120 at the end of their film. But what it's being ambiguous 1773 01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,800 about, I think is actually is something that I am skeptical 1774 01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,240 of, of being ambiguous about that certain subject. 1775 01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:50,840 Yeah. And I think the zone of interest 1776 01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:55,440 is a great comp because again, we don't need I wouldn't say 1777 01:27:55,440 --> 01:27:59,840 that movie is like completely straightforward and direct, 1778 01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,320 right? But it's clear. 1779 01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:07,200 And so, and I think that you again, you don't need the 1780 01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:11,160 audience to like immediately leave with this like message 1781 01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:15,440 that they can, you know, verbalize right at the end of 1782 01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:17,800 the movie, right? Like often in in these epics, 1783 01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:21,920 like in these long, you know, movies, you have a lot of 1784 01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,480 different themes and you're feeling a lot of different, 1785 01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,880 right messages that you experienced throughout this, 1786 01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,080 this, you know, journey. But I think you're right. 1787 01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:37,400 Like, I think the ambiguity is, especially in a movie that we 1788 01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:40,720 know and is being marketed as like having final cut, that's 1789 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,320 where the problem comes, right? Because it's not that I need, 1790 01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:46,720 again, a movie to tell me exactly what it's trying to say. 1791 01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:48,880 It's just that. Even though it's been doing that 1792 01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:50,040 in many moments throughout the film. 1793 01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:51,960 Yeah, it and. Then conveniently not here. 1794 01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:55,360 Exactly. It's the not avoidance 1795 01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:01,120 completely, but the sidestepping a lot and where it becomes like 1796 01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:03,280 unclear. And again, so this is what we 1797 01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,240 saw last night. So we're still like, we'll we'll 1798 01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,280 see it again. But I think that I I had a 1799 01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,680 similar reaction to the different interpretations that 1800 01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:14,200 I've seen coming out of this of like, I actually don't think 1801 01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:16,840 even when I view it on a second time, though, that like I'll see 1802 01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:21,920 this like strong, right? Like thematic exploration, the 1803 01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:25,360 local exploration of what people are saying that it's about. 1804 01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:29,240 But we'll see. I just think we're we're also 1805 01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:32,560 just kind of skeptical or dubious of period pieces that 1806 01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:33,960 treat themselves really seriously. 1807 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:35,720 So we already went into this movie with a little bit of like 1808 01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,600 a bias against those kinds of movies because and to defend 1809 01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:41,240 ourselves a little bit here, because many period pieces such 1810 01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:45,200 as this epic, the brutalist really try to not challenge 1811 01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:48,400 their audience to grapple with the present implications of what 1812 01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:51,720 the movie in the past is about. Instead, they treat to the 1813 01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,840 history as if it's real and you're in that moment, in that 1814 01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,840 part of history, because it's easier to it's much harder to 1815 01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,400 like connect the past in a contemporary world because 1816 01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:02,160 there's a responsibility with those stakes. 1817 01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:04,880 And I do think that this movie attempts to do that a few times. 1818 01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:08,120 But once you step into that pool, you got to dive in. 1819 01:30:08,120 --> 01:30:09,840 You know what I mean? Like any because it doesn't. 1820 01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,000 And instead of something like the zone of interest literally 1821 01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:16,400 shoots you forward is something that I find in rewatch now, I'm 1822 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,080 sure on rewatch whenever, whenever I rewatch it, that's a 1823 01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:22,160 tragic movie to rewatch. But when we do, I'm sure it'll 1824 01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:26,560 be something I look at is like very impressive and really bold, 1825 01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,560 like and big. And and however this movie is 1826 01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:31,480 being talked about monumental, you know what I mean? 1827 01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:35,080 Because then that actually demands a debate, you know, 1828 01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:37,720 about those kinds of things. And Jonathan Glaser using his 1829 01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:39,640 Oscar time to talk about those issues. 1830 01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:41,960 And I mean, that would be great if Brady Corbett does that too. 1831 01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:43,240 He might. And so we'll see in the future 1832 01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:45,320 if he does that, because it seems like he might win best 1833 01:30:45,440 --> 01:30:47,360 director and best picture. I got to ask you one question 1834 01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:48,640 before we get out. Yeah, because we're about to. 1835 01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:50,520 Get out. Yeah, do you think so? 1836 01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:52,240 Adrien Brody won the Golden Globe. 1837 01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:55,320 A lot of people hadn't seen right, the brutalist. 1838 01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,840 So a lot of people were like, OK, best, you know, motion 1839 01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:03,280 picture for Golden Globes and Adrien Brody over Timothy 1840 01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:06,200 Chalamet, which, you know, Timothy Chalamet is running an 1841 01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,440 All Star Oscar campaign. He's about to do a double 1842 01:31:09,440 --> 01:31:14,800 feature on SNL. But do you think now that you've 1843 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,320 seen the Brutalist and now that more people are able to see the 1844 01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:19,760 Brutalist and people that let us know in the comments too, I'm 1845 01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:23,080 interested because everyone was like Timothy Chalamet needs to 1846 01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,560 win this Oscar at playing Bob Dylan. 1847 01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:30,520 Do you actually think that the win was more deserved for Brody? 1848 01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:37,480 Wow. Timothy Chalamet brought biopics 1849 01:31:37,480 --> 01:31:39,240 back. Yeah. 1850 01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,920 And Adrian Brody expanded on his character from The Pianist. 1851 01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:44,800 You know what I mean? Like there, there is a level of 1852 01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:47,680 like, I've seen this guy do this before and he's really good at 1853 01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,760 it. And he also has like a personal 1854 01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:52,000 history attached to this movie that I think is really profound. 1855 01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:54,360 If listeners want to check that out online or or watch those 1856 01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:56,120 conversations on YouTube. And I'm sure he'll talk about if 1857 01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,080 he wins the Oscar. I think it is much just it's 1858 01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:02,520 easier to play a fictional figure than it is to play a real 1859 01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:04,040 life figure. That's why somebody biopic 1860 01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:06,320 struggle because there's so many responsibilities or there's so 1861 01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:09,480 many hands on that script and what Chalmay did to. 1862 01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,520 Play expectations, obviously, of like real life footage with Bob 1863 01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:14,960 Dylan, Yeah. Yes, I think Chalmay actually 1864 01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:19,560 added a sort of self criticism of not only himself as a 1865 01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,160 celebrity, but Bob Dylan, the figure within that movie that is 1866 01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:26,000 supposed to be like a not necessarily like a great man 1867 01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:29,360 myth film, but it is supposed to be like praising Bob Dylan, you 1868 01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:31,280 know, that biopic. But I do think he adds an 1869 01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:35,360 element to that figure that is a little bit not scathing, but 1870 01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:37,360 critical. That is really actually an 1871 01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:39,520 important thing of biopics right now because they're so 1872 01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,360 sanitized. And so and to add to that, Bob 1873 01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:45,440 Dylan is like this like cultural icon to so many generations of 1874 01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:48,200 people, not to our generation, but like certainly somebody that 1875 01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:50,400 we're all thinking about more now because Chalamet is such a 1876 01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,600 star for people our age. So I think it's just a really 1877 01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:57,040 important performance that is going to elevate a genre that I 1878 01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:00,080 do think matters when people are like saying biopics are the 1879 01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:01,320 worst thing that's happened to movies. 1880 01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,240 I just disagree. Like I think Malcolm X is one of 1881 01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:06,360 the best movies ever made and it's like a biopic. 1882 01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:08,280 Wolf of Wall Street, one of the best movies ever made, that's a 1883 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,040 biopic. Like those movies can have 1884 01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,160 significance because they take real life figures and they add 1885 01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:16,880 commentaries to them, and they also bring environments that are 1886 01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,600 in recent memory back to life to show you how maybe history 1887 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:21,920 hasn't changed that much. Or maybe it's even regressed in 1888 01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:23,920 some ways. Like societally we've regressed. 1889 01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:28,960 And I think Timmy doing a service to that Bob Dylan 1890 01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:31,680 performance to make it a little bit critical is a big deal. 1891 01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:35,360 I'm also a Chalamet head and so like, don't trust anything I 1892 01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:38,040 just said. So like I'm also, I don't mind 1893 01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,000 saying that. Before I saw anything. 1894 01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:43,040 Yeah, I honestly, Asia Brody could give the best performance 1895 01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:46,240 of like of his lifetime and I probably still would have said 1896 01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:48,160 Chalamet. So I am not to be trusted. 1897 01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,000 But I just feel like I've seen the Brody performance before, 1898 01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,360 though he is excellent at doing that performance, if that makes 1899 01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,560 sense. I just I can't I can't see 1900 01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:00,160 really any actors doing what Chalamet did with Bob Dylan tape 1901 01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:03,560 Blanchetta side. But I feel like I can see I can 1902 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:06,960 think of many actors like a Jeremy Strong or someone like 1903 01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:10,160 that with an emotional presence and depth that could bring a 1904 01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:14,040 level of brevity to that kind of character and gravity and the 1905 01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:17,720 and the brutalist as Laszlo. So that's really where I come 1906 01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:20,360 down on it. Do I think Asian Brodie's going 1907 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:21,080 to win? Yes. 1908 01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,520 OK, I I'm going to save this for our Oscar prediction. 1909 01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:26,960 You're going to save your answer, but you put me on the 1910 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:29,360 spot. I was just curious. 1911 01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:33,120 You had an answer you could have said, but I think right now, 1912 01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:38,480 right now I am. I think I was like, I'm leaning 1913 01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:42,800 more towards the Brody deserving this and but I can't tell. 1914 01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:46,760 I have to like search my own bias of me also being like, 1915 01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:48,880 well, it's because Timmy's young and he'll have other 1916 01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:53,480 opportunities kind of thing going on in my mind in terms of 1917 01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:56,120 like these awards shows, you know, which we're not an award 1918 01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,040 show podcast, but obviously we we cover the different awards 1919 01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:01,760 because this is these are usually the movies of the year 1920 01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:06,600 that people see get attention. So similar with actors career. 1921 01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:09,120 So they're important in that aspect of like. 1922 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:14,400 But I think that I, you know, I think Brody deserves the award 1923 01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:20,080 more for me right now. But I have to examine if I just 1924 01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:21,640 think that because Timmy is young. 1925 01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:24,320 And also like we saw in the Golden Globe speech, Adrian 1926 01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:27,960 Birdie was like, you know, I'm, you know, honored to be amongst 1927 01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:29,600 the people who were also nominated. 1928 01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:31,640 And he said everyone's name, but he said Timmy. 1929 01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:33,600 He said Timmy and not Timothy. Yeah. 1930 01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:37,320 Which Timothy has talked about, you know, like he's. 1931 01:35:37,320 --> 01:35:38,840 Trying to get away from Timmy. Called Timmy. 1932 01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:40,680 Because he doesn't want to be seen as this like Young. 1933 01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:41,880 Actor. I noted that as well. 1934 01:35:41,880 --> 01:35:44,080 So that that was. Kind of like you're a kid who 1935 01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:46,360 still doesn't deserve it. Yeah, even though he should have 1936 01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:47,720 won it. 21 years old, But call me by. 1937 01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:49,040 Really. What we're not saying, like 1938 01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:50,800 Adrian Brody was like, actively trying to do. 1939 01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:52,880 That no, we're starting that. Now that's kind of like what he 1940 01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:54,600 is. That's like why? 1941 01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:57,120 Dissed Timothy's. Challenge right Maybe why people 1942 01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:00,560 also might be like, well, Timothy, I can call him Timothy. 1943 01:36:02,480 --> 01:36:07,240 Timothy Timothy might be not in the the conversation. 1944 01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,600 For our Brody heads or anybody else who thinks there's other 1945 01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:11,800 actors who we, you know, haven't mentioned, there's so many that 1946 01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,560 you could, you could bring up and oh, of course, Josh O'Connor 1947 01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:16,960 Challengers. But like, there's a lot of 1948 01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:18,400 actors you can bring up for this role. 1949 01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:21,600 But for the the Adrien Brody heads, like to give you some 1950 01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:24,640 credit here, he maybe should win just because like Shalom, his 1951 01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,720 best performance isn't even in a complete unknown from 2024. 1952 01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,760 It's Paula Tradies from June 2. So do you know what I mean? 1953 01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:31,880 Like, he's not even getting nominated. 1954 01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:33,280 He's brought going to get nominated for his best 1955 01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:33,920 performance. No. 1956 01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:35,000 Yeah. So that's crazy. 1957 01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:36,080 You know what I mean? It's absurd. 1958 01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:38,440 But like, maybe that's even more of a reason to give him the 1959 01:36:38,440 --> 01:36:39,680 award, because that's pretty wild. 1960 01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:41,440 Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying. 1961 01:36:41,440 --> 01:36:42,480 We'll talk about this more on awesome. 1962 01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,520 But I just think the emotional moments of of Adrian Brody in 1963 01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:49,760 this this movie were extra cross. 1964 01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:52,560 So I'll go first. Give me a second to think. 1965 01:36:52,760 --> 01:36:56,440 I'm going to go the score, which I think I said at the top, and 1966 01:36:56,440 --> 01:36:59,480 the composer's name is Daniel Bloomberg or Blumberg. 1967 01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:00,960 I apologize if I mispronounce that. 1968 01:37:01,480 --> 01:37:03,520 I've never heard a score from this composer. 1969 01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:09,240 I think he's in his mid 30s and he's a Jewish electric guitarist 1970 01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:14,200 composer. And I thought the the obviously 1971 01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,400 the booming again, I don't know what to call it. 1972 01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:19,240 What do we say earlier? The anthem, the subversive 1973 01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:21,960 American anthem was a really successful and impressive, but 1974 01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:25,040 also the way that you spotted like how they toned it down 1975 01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:26,280 throughout different parts of the music. 1976 01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:27,840 I thought that was really wonderful. 1977 01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:32,280 I also have the 80s tone they used for when they shoot us 1978 01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:34,480 forward into the 80s. I thought that was really cool. 1979 01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:38,160 So yeah, I, I really liked, I think without the music, this 1980 01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:39,080 movie wouldn't have hit the same. 1981 01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,040 I don't even think it maybe it would get nominated for an Oscar 1982 01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:43,080 because that trailer is doing such numbers. 1983 01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:45,600 Like the music in that trailer is wonderful. 1984 01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,240 I do think trailers like have like a an editing of them. 1985 01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:51,320 The design of them have a big impact about whether even Oscar 1986 01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:53,680 voters watch a movie. And this trailer is like one of 1987 01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:55,720 the best of the year because of the sound. 1988 01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:59,680 Yeah, that's a great one. For me, I think it's just like 1989 01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:02,680 in the writing, making Adrien Brodie's character and 1990 01:38:02,680 --> 01:38:05,920 architect. I think in a movie like this 1991 01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:09,480 long too, it really helps. Like even in There Will Be 1992 01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:12,560 Blood, which I love. And again, I'm referencing 1993 01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,160 because there's obviously PTA influences all over this movie. 1994 01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:19,160 But I think it's just so smart to like basically turn an oil 1995 01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:22,880 rig into something that is beautiful to look at, like these 1996 01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:27,760 buildings and having these kind of sinister darker aspects, 1997 01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:31,280 especially like at the end of the movie when we see, you know, 1998 01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,680 different people in this search party for Harrison, like going 1999 01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,280 through the building where we see like flashlights going 2000 01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:43,320 through these like beautiful like openings in the, the like 2001 01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:47,000 entrance of of the building. And then when they're underneath 2002 01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:51,080 in the the kind of like water room, whatever. 2003 01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:53,600 But you know what I'm talking about. 2004 01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:59,120 But the kind of the playing with, right, the beauty and the 2005 01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,600 darker undertones of the movie thematically. 2006 01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:07,280 And also obviously it's just like just really smart in terms 2007 01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:11,960 of making a really like long movie beautiful to look at and 2008 01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:15,200 also having you know, conversations about like 2009 01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:20,520 creative ambitions and integrity and the kind of like 2010 01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:24,840 commodification, right of art. Like I think that was all really 2011 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,520 interesting to incorporate into the story. 2012 01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,080 So I think that deserves extra credit. 2013 01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:33,120 And also every single time we see a Rd. 2014 01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:36,800 OK when we're like driving down the road and we get the the. 2015 01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:39,400 I really like the camera placement on the cars, whatever 2016 01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:40,200 they're doing. Yeah, it's. 2017 01:39:40,440 --> 01:39:42,760 Like speed up, right? Like increase frame rate of the 2018 01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:44,480 of us. Just like speeding down these 2019 01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:45,280 roads. It's sick. 2020 01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:47,360 Yeah, feel like we're in Ferrari in my command movie. 2021 01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:49,760 I'm there for it every time. What you were just describing 2022 01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:54,120 about his journey in this film as an architect was really 2023 01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:57,800 reminding me of Tar, and that's what this movie makes me think 2024 01:39:57,800 --> 01:39:59,240 about. It was like Tar was really 2025 01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:02,120 successful at A at a with similar commentaries with a 2026 01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:05,160 completely different narrative. So maybe that's another rewatch 2027 01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,600 for for listeners at home who are looking for some more 2028 01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:10,000 brutalist movies to watch. Epic. 2029 01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:12,600 Yeah. To get to get your taste of it 2030 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:13,760 again. All right. 2031 01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:16,640 That was the extra credits of the brutalist. 2032 01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:18,800 I'm sure we'll be back talking about this movie come Oscar 2033 01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:20,280 season. The nominations are this week. 2034 01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:22,960 Yeah. So I think they got delayed but. 2035 01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:23,640 That's right. Yeah. 2036 01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:25,320 Yes. And we hope everybody is safe 2037 01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:27,640 out in California. We're in Colorado. 2038 01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:30,880 But yeah. Let us know what you thought 2039 01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:32,240 about the Brutalist in the comments. 2040 01:40:32,240 --> 01:40:33,080 Let us know what you think about. 2041 01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:35,440 It's Oscar chances. Let us know nicely what you 2042 01:40:35,440 --> 01:40:37,360 thought about our criticism of the movie and what we 2043 01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:39,800 appreciated about it. And we'll be back soon. 2044 01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:40,400 See you guys.