Music. Hello, welcome to the extra
credits plus of one of the most theatrical epics in the history
of movie making, Ridley Scott's Gladiator.
I'm Trey and I'm Kelsey. So we're back talking about
Ridley. We are.
This time with Gladiator, a massive Hollywood production, a
sword and sandals epic that reignites a genre to only make
worse movies than Gladiator over the next 20 years.
I guess we got some television out of.
It we did, I mean we got things like 300 out of it, which you
know, whatever. But we did get things I think
like Game of Thrones, you know, that are not directly, you know,
inspired by Gladiator. But definitely I think was
created because of the audience, you know, for stories like
Gladiator and also giving us more complicated figures like a
Commodus and getting away from the more simplified characters
or hero journeys of like Maximus and in that time period.
I think certainly Gladiator, the Lord of the Rings trilogy had
not only an inspiration aesthetically and stylistically
on Game of Thrones and now House of Dragon, but I think what
you're saying is right on. Like the funding of that
television show for the amount of money they had to invest in
it for, for HBO was and Warner Brothers was a lot.
So we're choosing to cover Gladiator right now because
Denzel Washington and Paul Mescal's Gladiator 2 comes out
in about two months. Yeah.
Stoked for that. And we've already, you know,
spoiled our October slate that those episodes are going to be
not really related to movies that are coming out right now.
Sort of, but not really. They were just listeners, voted
for those movies. And that's the ones we're doing,
which is Hereditary, Get Out and Rosemary's Baby.
Really excited for those. I don't want to spoil November's
Patreon ideas, but I will say the plan is to make it a Denzel
and Paul Meskel themed November. Yeah, I don't know if we'll do
any Ridley Scott movies in the next six months to a year just
because we've done so many over the past six months to a year,
but we will have a really fun next few months.
All right, so. And we will also be talking
about Ridley Scott's career with our special guests on the main
feed. Yes, we're going to be dropping
a pretty in depth Ridley Scott career conversation with a
second time guest, one of our favorite guests and I can't wait
to talk to that person. All right, so Gladiator released
in May 2000, I almost said 2020, the first best picture Oscar
winner of the 21st century. Yeah.
A movie that was regarded as an instant classic when it released
and a film that is sort of a historical epic, sort of a
spiritual journey epic. You can see its influences on
modern film today with like, Dune and Doom Part 2, for
example. Like Denia is a huge Ridley
Scott head. But I think we come back to
Gladiator not for the self seriousness of this movie.
So if you're here for that kind of conversation, you probably
won't love this deep time. Yeah.
We will not be talking about history in depth and
inaccuracies. We will not be talking about how
we love Maximus. And this is like, I don't know.
Or like, yeah, over praising Maximus and then also being like
here all the a historical bits about about gladiator.
Even as a history teacher, that sounds like my worst nightmare
to do that. I'm excited to talk about this
movie because it is such a hyper dramatic film.
It is like a Shakespearean drama with incredible world building,
great set pieces. And even though we might have
just said that about Maximus, I do really love the foil
character dynamic between Commodus and Maximus.
So that's what I come back to this movie for.
Yeah. And it's, you know, it's a very
simple story. It's kind of like a parable.
And in terms of having these two characters, and especially with
commodities, I think he's a little bit more complex, too.
But he is very like, straightforward in his kind of
character development and in the writing.
Yeah. There's a protagonist and
antagonist. Clear archetypes, right?
Yeah. But there is also kind of like
a, a knowingness that I, I'm not sure if it was intended, but
there is certainly like a melodramatic kind of playing
with the audience almost live theater aspect that you're
talking about. Like if you've ever seen a play
like a Shakespeare play in person, there is like a playing
with the audience of doing this like serious melodramatic speech
at times where you're you're really like almost engaging with
the idea that it's like theatrical and that it happens
in this movie. And I can't tell if there are
some sort of like intentional moments for like, let's just
embrace this really dramatic moment, you know, that would be
on a stage. Or if it's just something that,
as you know, we see this as like a time capsule of the 2000s,
right? In terms of like, more simple
storytelling that we now find like, sort of campy.
But I'm I still enjoy the movie. Right.
I love what you said though, like embrace and celebrate the
kind of performativity of what's going on in this film.
I I love that relationship to the movie.
Now saying and saying that if I was 30 years old and saw this in
2000, it would probably be Dune for me.
You know what I mean? So like it's a different
experience in a different era, but it is going to I think it
has lived on and I think it should live on in those that
tier of the great antiquity movies like a Ben Hur or a
Spartacus and Gladiator. It is is a sort of remake of a
1964 film called The Fall of the Roman Empire, which is lesser
seen, but it is a little bit different in terms of where it
takes the narrative. I think we're Gladiator differs
from those movies. And I do think where it differs
from a lot of maybe contemporary movies too, is it doesn't really
care about being historically accurate.
And I usually really, you know, and rightfully so, try to be
critical of movies that don't hold themselves to some type of
like, accountability or responsibility when it comes to
like, reshaping or remoulding history in movies because of
their role in pop culture. Since this isn't just an
artistic medium, it's also a commercial one.
And that influence it can have on people.
But this is also just Rome, you know what I mean?
And there isn't a lot of, like, contemporary stakes with the way
that Rome is represented here or the way the people are
represented in as far as like the movie just doing this like
Heroes journey with Maximus. Yeah.
If it over glorified Rome and over romanticized it, which it
does lean toward, and in the end, we can talk about maybe
that as a criticism, then it would become something else.
But luckily, Ridley Scott is like, I don't really care about
that. I care about Rome as an idea.
I care about these, you know, historical figures, whether they
were real or not, as ideas, as concepts.
Let's interrogate that. Let me bring back all these
ideas from Alien and Blade Runner about navigating our
mortality as humans and what we'll do to, like, immortalize
ourselves and reflecting on fate and legacy.
Those are all ideas in this film.
Is it a thematically ambitious Ridley Scott movie?
No, not at all, no. But it still has some ideas that
I think are pretty interesting. Yeah, I think he, you know,
continuously returns to the idea of like these men in power and
the fragility and also like just.
I think he has a an interest in deconstructing these narratives
around like greatness, right? And we talked about that in our
Napoleon podcast a lot. And he's almost doing the same
thing here with Commodus and even with Marcus Aurelius,
right? Like, so I think that's
interesting. But yeah, it is.
It's not like a Blade Runner level text that he is jumping
into or maybe like a covenant. But it is interesting.
Like he does come back to certain themes that he has been
interested in his work, like the idea of of in like Kingdom of
Heaven, this idea of like what are people fighting for exactly?
And wealth or the idea of religion that is obviously like
all throughout the Alien films and especially on Covenants,
almost like David and Shaw are just like a communist and
Maximus a. Much better version.
Of the. In our opinion, yeah.
I what's funny about Gladiator is I never thought we'd cover
this movie on the Patreon because we're so indifferent to
this genre. And I've always liked Gladiator.
This is the most I've ever liked it.
And rewatching it and prepping for it, I've always been pretty
lukewarm on this type of movie. But I've really gotten more into
it because of how much you recently got into.
It. Because you just saw it for the
first time a few months ago. Yeah.
OK. So I have a, a weird, I guess,
experience like as a millennial with Gladiator.
So I had obviously seen like stills.
Like I've seen pictures of Russell Crowe and his armor in
the Coliseum. Like I knew that Joaquin Phoenix
was in this you've. Probably heard the Are you not
entertained? Yeah, like I've heard the the
famous lines and I've seen clips of it, especially was on TV a
lot, obviously on rerun. So I've seen pieces of the
movie, but I've never really, like, sat down and watched the
full thing start to finish. So we went to see Napoleon last.
Was that last November now? It was, yes.
And we got home maybe at like 910, like pretty late.
And Troy was like, I'm going to bed and I was like, I'm going to
stay up until 3:00 AM and watch. Glad you're.
Like this really Scott guy? He's pretty good.
Let me check out his other epics.
I think I was in. I think I was interested because
so many people hated Napoleon. Good movie.
We thought it was a good movie. Yeah, we we like it.
We obviously understand its flaws, like, but I think it's it
is a fun addition to the Ridley Scott project of, again, like
what what I was talking about before him continuously looking
at figures like Wayland, right, Figures like Napoleon and
figures like Commodus. Like he is interested in these
men who hold so much power and the kind of like the pedestal
that they are put on in history. And it's so it's really
fascinating and how people come to his movies a lot of times
thinking like, oh, I'm going to watch historical epic.
That's going to be more, you know, like Braveheart or more
like, you know, some sort of like energetic positive, like
viewing of this historical figure, you know what I'm
saying, or learn something about history.
And that is not what Ridley Scott's trying to do.
Almost like ever, you know, like if you listen to him.
And I again, like there are issues sometimes if you're, if
you're misrepresenting history in a way that then does like
glorify those figures. But I think that in terms of,
like, historical accuracy, I always kind of give him a pass
because he is very clear about, like, this.
I'm not trying to make you think this guy was great or to like,
you know what I mean? Contribute to the history of
thinking that this this person was like, worthy of all this
power. And think about, like,
especially in this movie, we'll talk about, like, the idea of
how he thinks about, like, colonizing.
Right. And how Marcus Aurelius is like,
what? Yeah.
So.
So it's not, again, it's not as like straightforward as maybe
like I don't think Gladiator deserves to be praised, but at
the same time for for its themes.
But at the same time, I think like Ridley Scott's one of the
only people who are doing this at a large scale commercially.
So anyway to, to like summarize my viewing of a Gladiator?
I first was like, OK, I saw Napoleon.
I really thought it was funny making fun of Napoleon.
And then people were like, I hated it.
I did not like it. It wasn't a good, essentially
historical epic, which they're going to.
See at the pyramids, that didn't happen.
Yeah, so then I was like, I got to watch Gladiator because I got
to see what comedist is all about.
And also obviously I love Joaquin Phoenix and just wanted
to see him on the screen a little bit more, even after the
the long time in Napoleon. But so.
Yeah, so I I watched Gladiator. I texted you at three you were
sleeping and I was like, that was great.
It was a. Surprise to wake up.
Too, Yeah. Because it's I thought it was
not going to be your vibe, but what do you think held you in it
the whole time? Because it is quite a long movie
and I think there are some pacing questions I'm going to
have for. You sure you know it?
It the reason that I was like because.
I think there's one. Obvious enjoying my my time with
it, even though I tend to to kind of check out in that slow
portion on rewatch of the the middle of the movie, right.
Yeah, yeah. The kind of rise and fall and
then rise again. Yes, Yeah.
And in that middle period of the movie, I was just, like, hanging
out, I think, and enjoying my time in the world.
I, like, appreciated how Ridley Scott kind of, like, created
different sequences. Like, there's one sequence where
Commodus is looking at this Coliseum, and it's kind of like
a miniature. And he puts a little figurine
inside the Coliseum. And then it transitions to like
basically, yeah, this overhead shot almost like the same thing
of this massive Coliseum in real life.
And all the people do look like little figurines that are all
like comedy, as little like play toys essentially as a ruler.
I I really like those kind of things were so fun.
And I enjoyed those pieces of editing and, and just like from
the the filmmaking side. And also I thought a lot of the
older kind of effects were just like fun, you know?
And so I, I think that I was my answer is like, while I don't
enjoy rewatching it all the time during that specific period, the
first time I saw it, even like like just recently, I enjoyed my
time in the world building. Like he does a lot of fun things
that we'll talk about today that are totally inaccurate, but I I
enjoyed. Yeah, I think it's incredibly
immersive and which is what you're getting AT and you know
it has a huge legacy in cinema because of its practical world
building with this early compositing of using early CGI
and digital work on the movie. As for the narrative, I think
the really self serious, you know, and rightfully so.
His family, spoiler alert was killed.
But self serious Maximus character study about honor and
redemption is a lot and it isn't that interesting.
And I think Russell Crowe at the center of these set pieces
featuring these like amalgamations of like famous
Roman battles or Colosseum fights are compelling.
But can you know, they're not always like a on rewatch you do
kind of you kind of are getting excited for what that next
exciting scene with like Joaquin Phoenix, Which I guess gets me
to my point, which is as much as this movie is remembered for
Russell Crowe and his, you know, Oscar and then Gladiator for
best picture and the set design in the costumes or Hans Zimmer
with the score to make it even more immersive.
The number one reason I come back to this film is Joaquin
Phoenix even over Ridley Scott. It's what he is up to in this
movie. He is so pouty.
He is so whiny. He's so innocent too.
Every time his lips like part to talk, just like in I'm so
excited to see like his his just small kind of like paper cut
reactions to everything his dad says and and how he's like
performing with the Senate. He is so good.
Like I you're watching a rewatching Joker, obviously,
because we're going to do that on the Patreon next.
And I was thinking like, is he my favorite actor?
Right, Yeah. I mean, he, he's one of the
best, right? He's one of the best of his
generation. We can certainly have a little
bit of that conversation today. We're going to be doing Joker in
a few days, so we might want to save a deeper Phoenix kind of
conversation for that. But we can look at his his
generation of actors like Leo and Christian Bale and Will
Smith and everyone else. Yeah, I mean that, but that's
ultimately what I come back to this movie for.
I come back to Joaquin and what he does with Commodus and making
this movie hilariously dramatic and also sadly dramatic.
And those conversations with his father.
Richard Harris is so good in this movie.
The ensemble cast is incredible in this film.
We'll get to everybody. But yeah, I mean, it's you know,
it's got it's got issues too, and we'll talk about those.
Like we said, it's got the pacing issues and then with the
a historical stuff, we can talk a little bit about that.
We're not going to like we said at the top, we're not going to
deep dive what's not historically accurate about this
movie. There's tons of like white dudes
on YouTube or Reddit just like pissed at this movie.
And, and my thing is like, if you think like the Roman era of
history is the greatest time to live in human history, like if
you're watching gladiator gladiator and you're like, yes,
Imperial Rome, this is where I want to be.
That's weird, right? That's a, that's a weird take.
And I think we should just say that more honestly, as a
society, we should just be like, that's odd.
That's a very strange thing that you want.
Yeah. And also with the whole, you
know, like trend, I mean, this has not just been in like this
specific like TikTok trend of like, how do you think about the
Roman Empire, right? That was something that was,
yeah. We were like growing up too.
People, like, often talked about, Oh yeah, Rome.
Like, I remember even like in middle school or high school or
something, people would be like, yeah, like the Roman Empire,
like when it was falling, people were getting tattoos.
Like what the. Plumbing there was crazy, like
there was plumbing other places before them.
It's like it's fine to also, you know, be interested in history,
but it's just like, don't make it your personality, you know,
to to correct people on Rome specifically.
Don't make your personality as you're talking to a history
teacher. And a social scientist, Yeah.
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
For you. Yeah.
Anyways, so, you know, this actually might be a good time to
drop a quote I got from Ridley Scott.
The only quote I wrote down, I wrote he's wild on special
features on all of his Blu rays. And in this one, I only wrote
down one quote. I usually write down many, but
this one did it for me. Ridley Scott in the director's
commentary for Gladiator said, you know, some historians watch
this and said, hey, the Romans didn't do that.
And I said they do now. They're one day I'll also will
release maybe on Patreon because I I can't make it public, but I
often like while we're watching Ridley Scott movies, I'll like
do his voice to explain something insane that happens.
Yeah, my Scott's really bad. It's bad, but it's so fun
because if you listen to any of his commentaries like he did not
prepare them, he's just going off the cuff and he.
But he's way more thorough than other commentaries.
Oh, yeah. And he's not like it's weird
because obviously like he is pretentious and in a lot of
ways, but like he also there's a like non pretentious kind of
like transparency with him where he is willing to explain.
Like This is why I did this. This is why I thought this was
interesting. Does he get a little like red
buttony sometimes? Yeah, for sure.
But it's like, is he, does he have wine on the other side of
the screen? Like what's going on?
Definitely remember in, in Alien Covenant, they were talking
about like the, the whole design team, they were in a room like
working on this for months and months or like 5 people.
And they're like, we know that when Ridley would be coming to
see us that day because hour like an hour before a, a bucket
with ice and wine would show up. Like Ridley's coming in today.
But yeah, so he he enjoys, you know, his wine and his movies
obviously like he spends all like day on these things.
He gets obsessive and is working on projects constantly.
But anyway, when when he is talking during the gladiator
like sequences, it's very interesting to to hear him like
say, for example, when when Maximus is picking up like dirt,
he's like that could be this, you know, like.
Could mean that. But also, it could just be dirt.
Could just be. Dirt it looks good and that's
his thing he like and. That's a British accent.
That's our. That's our British.
For our British listeners, that's the best we can do
without. We apologize.
Totally. Being hateful, yeah.
Or disrespectful. I mean, not that our listeners
have ever reached out from Britain.
Being like, hey, you guys got to cut it with a British accent.
Every time we do it with Ridley, it's just targeted specifically.
It's just Ridley. I love Did I say that I was sick
yet? No.
OK, I'm sick. Just so everyone knows.
Today's episode gets a little bit loony.
Then that's he has a me on Sudafed.
All right, today's episode is exclusively on Patreon.
As always, our Patreon episodes are deep dives, but they're also
live commentaries. So we will be discussing
Gladiator while watching it. If you're on the main feed,
you're listening to a sample of this episode.
So if you want the full discussion, then you can go into
this episode show notes where you'll find the Patreon, the X
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access to our full episode today, as well as the rest of
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OK, so for anyone who wants to listen and watch along Gladiator
with us, you can stream it on Prime's Paramount Plus, but we
recommend the 4K. We own all the Patreon movies we
cover and there's like 10 hours of bonus footage on it.
So if you're really Scott Head or Gladiator headed, it is
certainly for you. All right, I'm play.
We'll start the movie 321 on. My signal I'm Lee shell.
Strength and on all right gladiator released in May of
2000, so obviously we didn't see this movie in theaters and I
still haven't I I wish theaters would like with gladiator 2
coming out. I wish gladiator the first movie
was like in AMC's right now or Alamos like why is it not there?
You know what I mean? I feel like more a lot of people
would go. Yeah, I mean, they're doing that
for like anniversaries, but it would make sense, especially
with like major franchises, to bring it back before Gladiator
2. We set it with Dune Part 2.
Like we wanted a Dune Part 1 Part 2 back-to-back, right?
Like set that up. Like why is that not a thing?
We'd pay big money for that anyways.
I was going to say that 2000 was the year that I, I actually saw
my first movie in theaters. I think it was one of the first
Pokémon theatrical releases. You know, one of the Pokémon,
the 1st movie or Pokémon 2000, whatever one that Ash Ketchum
just gets absolutely bodied in The one where he turns to stone.
Because I have a vivid memory of sitting in my seats, just
crying, sobbing, watching Pikachu, trying to revive this
man by shocking him. Do you remember this I?
Don't know if I remember that really exact one, but I did go
to the the theatrical release of like the little pikas like the
little pika Chi. Oh yes, but I forgot was that?
2000. It was around that time.
Yeah, but what I was going to say, the reason why I'm bringing
this up has nothing to the Gladiator.
Sorry for Gladiator. I just give me a minute.
My first real film that I saw in theaters.
Not that the Pokémon movies weren't real, but let's just say
like a traditional feature movie was Harry Potter and the
Sorcerer's Stone, which came out like a few months later, I
think, or Philosopher's Stone for our Brits out there, which
was a life changing experience. Yeah.
I'll save any thoughts about that for future pods.
What was your first movie in theaters?
That's a a beautiful first movie to see in theaters.
I don't know like. Thornberrys or.
Something I don't know, I I definitely like.
Rugrats go to Paris. Did that come out before the
Rugrats go wild? I have a very specific scratch
and sniff experience with the Rugrats gone wild or whatever it
is. OK, yeah, I did the same thing.
Where they sold like a scratch and sniff.
Yeah, well, I went to Regal, but and you at certain points in the
movie they would like show something on screen for you to
scratch off so you could smell what was happening on screen.
Theaters were doing big things back then, you know what I mean?
But but yeah, I guess so. It has to be something within
Rugrats universe. Yeah, I mean, luckily we, I
mean, as kids, we hadn't hit the franchise IP ification of kids
movies hitting theaters yet. Like Shrek came out in 2000, you
know, so like we hadn't really seen, you know, the franchises
for kids movies yet. So we still got to see like more
serious movies. Like I remember in 2001, a year
later now I'm tying Gladiator back into this.
My dad took me to Blockbuster and we rented Fellowship of the
Ring, which came out in 2001 and then Gladiator and we did a
back-to-back on a Sunday or something, a double feature of
those two epics. And my mind was blown that day
one because Ian Holmes, that's. A lot for one day.
Especially for somebody like it was like a 7 or 8 year old
because Ian Holmes's Bilbo Baggins jump scares you and
Fellowship of the Ring. So when I was growing up, I
thought of that movie as like a horror fantasy.
Yeah, it was terrifying. For me, I also thought of it as
scary when I was growing up. Yeah.
Well, it's an Odyssey level movie and it's like also has
it's like hyperdramatic moments, but it is it's got some the orcs
are kind of scary for kids. But what's funny about those two
movies is that now I don't like hard fantasy and I don't really
like hard history, but both of those movies happen to like be
some of the most important films of the 21st century.
And they left an impact on me because I remember sitting on
the living room floor watching them 6 for six hours straight.
So it's pretty, pretty crazy experience.
But I don't know if our generation has a big
relationship to Gladiator that much.
I mean, I think they have a really. 100 for sure.
Yeah, but I think Gladiator they do.
And like that was on TV, like it's a rewatchable movie for our
generation. So yeah, I don't.
You're right. It's a TNT, it's a dad movie for
sure. Yeah.
So like I, I think our generation kind of watched a lot
of those war historical epic kind of movies like Braveheart,
like The Patriot, those things that were on like TNT and
parents may have said like you should check this out or you
know what I mean, like gladiator type of movies were very
popular. Yeah, I mean, my biggest change
in my life watching Gladiator was when I was a kid.
I thought Joaquin Phoenix was so annoying in this film.
Interesting. And then when I got older, now
I'm like, oh. He's the main event.
Yeah, I'm, I'm not even here for Russell Crowe anymore.
All right, so Gladiator, the opening credits of Gladiator
looks really interesting. It has this like muted sepia
toned color palette that I think is effective in like evoking an
ancient history vibe. The text on the screen are all
kind of rendered in a golden bronze hue.
It's pretty immediately atmospheric and somber, really
aligning with the movie's themes.
The traditional ones about honor and loss and the fear of time
passing or the the more interesting ones about mortality
and trying to immortalize yourselves.
And, you know, common is trying to become his his father.
He wants to become a statue in a basement.
Like he wants to be remembered in that way.
He also wants to be remembered as a great man, quote UN quote.
And then Russell Crowe wants to to live on his farm with his
family. And then we get the opening
crawl. Or before we get the opening
text crawl, we get the Hans Zimmer music.
This is where we hear Lisa Gerard, the woman whose voice is
over the music. I don't want.
I don't know exactly how to explain what she's doing.
Yeah, over the music. But the kind of bellowing that
she's doing, OK. She's the same person who worked
on Dune. Wow, or Dune soundtrack that
makes sense. Makes a lot of sense, yeah.
So that's really cool. The opening text crawl, how do
you want to do this? Because I think our listeners
know we hate. These, yeah, I always, again,
like, I just can't read them. And in this movie in particular,
like, I appreciate that Ridley Scott put less on the screen,
right? It's not a whole paragraph.
But still even then I just have trouble reading it so fast
because of the pressure. We were watching the Directors
Cup Napoleon the other night and it was like in blue and red and
the time reading of it all they're.
Trying to make it like the the French flag, yeah.
And it felt kind of evil. Why am I being time?
It's like standardized testing. Yeah, I I do want to say that in
the special features there was like a whole team around
creating. I think we should just read the
opening credit and it's exactly, but I do want to say that I I
like how they ended up doing it here where it's like, you know,
just text and it seems like there's a kind of a fire and
smoke orange, right? That is kind of ominous, right,
because it feels like something is either like burning down or
you're about to like enter into some sort of, you know, pit of
fire. And so I, I like that kind of
thematically as we go into it, but yeah, it's true.
The religious, yeah, because, because you start out not really
knowing like who you're identifying with in terms of a
character. So I kind of like this more
ominous tone starting out, but there was a whole team behind
the the credits. They were going to do it a
different way where they actually like physically made a
miniature of zooming out over this field that looks like a
battlefield. And then they zoom, they zoom in
and you would see like built into the battlefield that
originally looked like from the bird's eye view, all these like
soldiers standing in formation. You would actually like zoom in
and kind of almost as if you're you're flying across the
landscape like a plane or something.
As you get closer, you would see the text that is that we do see
at the beginning, but it is basically like almost like
chiseled looking into a hillside into sand.
And they did that with actual like letter presses.
They like literally built it. That would be even more.
Hi, hello there, sorry for interrupting.
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They got it this far, you're. Having a good time?
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