1 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,960 The. Welcome to the extra credits of 2 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,280 Sean Baker and Mikey Madison's Anora. 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,520 I'm Trey and. I'm Kelsey. 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,720 So Baker's Anora, this is a bold, ambitious film that I 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,520 think reaffirms Baker's status, is one of the most interesting 6 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,040 independent film makers in the world. 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,720 Yeah, certainly one of our favorites. 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,120 And it also introduces us to Mikey Madison as a legitimate 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,160 star. Yes. 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,680 And we have three of her here. Today, Yeah. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,000 I mean, she's amazing. To cement that for those of you 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,960 watching on YouTube and Nora, one of my favorite movies of the 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,880 year. This isn't my favorite Baker 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,240 film. I don't think this is like 5 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,240 star masterpiece. There's some narrative issues, 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,240 some tonal issues for me. But honestly, to a certain 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,760 extent, who cares? 2024 has been a little bit of an 18 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,600 up and down year in the in the cinema and this is certainly one 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,120 of the most exciting films and tragic films of the year. 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,560 Yeah, I I think I'm right there with you. 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,200 This is not my favorite movie of the year. 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,120 It's not a five star masterpiece because of the some of the kind 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,680 of like character holes that we'll talk more about today. 24 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,360 But it certainly is one of the best movies of the year. 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,200 And I, I think that I have a pretty strong argument for why 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,680 knowing Sean Baker's filmography and I think he does some really 27 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,480 successful things in this movie, that he are his strengths from 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,000 his previous movies. And then he tries to do 29 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,240 something that are also strengths of his other movies, 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,400 but you can't fit them all into one. 31 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,680 And that's where I come out on Anora. 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,080 But you know, Anora is still really up there for me in his 33 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,760 filmography. I feel similar to you. 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,080 It's not my favorite of his movies. 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,960 Yeah, Florida Project is still number one for me easily, but 36 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,040 Anora is my number two of his. Yeah, so I guess we can talk 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,400 about why in just a second. But I do want to say like, we 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,920 are Big Sean Baker fans, we've got a huge expectations going 39 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,200 into this film, which was very unfair to the movie. 40 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,560 We saw the trailer, incredible trailer, a lot of buzz coming 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,800 out after can because obviously like all the awards of this 42 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,720 movie won and it did deserve those awards and it's doing 43 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,320 really well at the box office right now. 44 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,760 People are talking about as the front runner to win best 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,680 picture. Yeah, all those things happen 46 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,440 and Mikey Madison becomes a star who is working with future 47 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,360 auteur, you know, indie to now mainstream film makers. 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,400 Like she was in a photo with Luca Guadagnino this morning. 49 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,880 What if that happens? Fantastic. 50 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,640 I'm here for it. Oh my God, I could totally see 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,440 her in any of his movies. I'm thinking of Suspiria. 52 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,880 But really, like anything could. Work yes, that would be amazing. 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,480 So I'm I'm down for the success of this movie. 54 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,480 It deserves it it's very very good. 55 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:59,120 It's just that there are some movies you watch where you know, 56 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,120 you're watching a film that has a ceiling of like 4 stars to use 57 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,800 letterbox ratings for a second. You know, like we just watched 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:06,720 Conclave recently. We did an episode on that. 59 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,080 We also did one on Gladiator 2. Those are both movies that have 60 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,560 ceilings to me of 3 1/2 to four stars with floors of like three 61 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,680 stars, you know what I mean? And like that is a good. 62 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,320 Middle, yeah. Yeah, it's a good place to be. 63 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,760 It's like good adult dramas that are exciting entertainment 64 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,000 spectacles to that that can never really feel like they're 65 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,360 going to be bad, but they never really feel like they're going 66 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,200 to be great. Yeah. 67 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:33,280 Verse Anora, which is like very clear in the trailer. 68 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,120 You're like, this is going to be at the very least good. 69 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,680 Yeah. And it could be, you know, like 70 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,640 how people are talking about it, a masterpiece. 71 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,840 Yeah, and I want to get into why. 72 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,840 It does not like 5 star ceiling. Yeah, so let's talk about Sean 73 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,240 Baker for a second, because some of the listeners or watchers 74 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,600 that out there might not know Baker's filmography totally. 75 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,360 He has carved out a unique niche in contemporary cinema. 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,320 He tells deeply empathetic humanist stories about usually 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,880 people in survivor positions, like where they have to survive 78 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,520 an exploitative economy. And they can also come from 79 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,240 marginalized backgrounds. They could come from, they could 80 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:16,440 be put in positions of Labor that have a lot of stereotypes 81 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,240 or stigmas attached to them. And so he's done this in 82 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,120 multiple different frameworks, right? 83 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,960 He's done grounded social realist films like Take Out. 84 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,280 He's done this in more elevated stories that are still tragic 85 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,200 like Tangerine. He's done this perfectly in 86 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,240 something like The Florida Project or even one of my 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,040 favorite Starlet, which might be my second favorite movie of his, 88 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,560 which is very similar to Enora in terms of the character 89 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,440 trajectory or arc. Yeah, that's true. 90 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,600 I think Enora blends some tangerine elements and some 91 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,960 starlet elements pretty well actually, if you're a Baker fan. 92 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,280 So he's done this a lot. I think his most riskiest 93 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,480 project that didn't totally work for me though is still very 94 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,440 ambitious and interesting nonetheless, is Red Rocket, 95 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,160 which came out a few years ago with the Simon Rex performance, 96 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,560 which is excellent. So he has been inspired by some 97 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,560 of the great indie social realist directors like people 98 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,920 like Scorsese and Spike Lee and you know, more indie than that, 99 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,280 like Cassavetes or somebody like Ken Loach or Ozu like. 100 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,760 So he has really big inspirations. 101 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,680 He keeps his own sensibilities. He has his own vision. 102 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,800 I think he's a little bit funnier than all those directors 103 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,600 that I just named, maybe except Spike Lee. 104 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,080 I think they have a similar sense of humor. 105 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,960 And with the Nora, interestingly, I think he was 106 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,800 able to keep those sensibilities while going a little bit more 107 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,400 mainstream because each one of his movies throughout his career 108 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,160 is like increased scale quite a bit. 109 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,240 And he's now joining a group of independent film makers that 110 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,600 have now gone more mainstream. That isn't like this rarefied 111 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,240 tier, like a Luca Guadagnino for. 112 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,320 Example Luca is a great example with Challengers. 113 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,360 Like, I think, you know, when Challengers came out and that 114 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,920 was such a fun episode to record. 115 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,240 And that was a huge, you know, success in my mind, partly 116 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,360 because of the performances. Yes, a really fun movie, but 117 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:05,120 the. Score. 118 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,840 The cinematography, yeah, a lot of it is really extra and it 119 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:10,520 knows that tone very well. Yeah, the Mike Feist, the 120 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,400 Zendaya, the, like, Josh O'Connor of it all, too. 121 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,680 But I feel like it didn't capture some of the kind of 122 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:23,560 weightier, more gruesome, like moments of a bigger splash that 123 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,400 I love. Sure. 124 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,760 In this, like in these relationships between the 125 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:27,640 characters. Yeah. 126 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,200 And so we talked a lot about that on our Challengers episode. 127 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,800 But you're right, like I feel like Sean Baker is also kind of 128 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,760 in that lane of a indie filmmaker who's now becoming 129 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,560 more mainstream. And maybe that's kind of the 130 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,880 reaction we're having to like, it reminds you of like your 131 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,640 ghost too, like kind of his trajectory. 132 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,840 Like these are, you know, perfect parallels, but it does 133 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,600 remind me of like people knowing Baker, Oregon, knowing your 134 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,320 ghost specifically here, like from the the lobster and then, 135 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,760 you know, the favorite, but then wider audiences maybe knowing 136 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,920 your ghost's work, like attached to his film or his name attached 137 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,880 to his films, like from poor things and have gaining a wider 138 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,360 audience. Of course, that comes with like 139 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,000 the awards and the Emma Stone as a creative partner. 140 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,960 But I think like the same thing is happening with a Nora with us 141 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,000 here in that maybe Florida project was something that I 142 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:26,000 love more, maybe like people have seen more so because it was 143 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,000 on Netflix. Interesting. 144 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,880 Yeah, it was recently streaming on Netflix. 145 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,960 Yeah. But people still I think maybe 146 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,280 connected to like a Willem Dafoe character. 147 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,920 I think that's right, you know, and where like the lobster, 148 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,400 maybe people have connected that more to like Colin Farrell, you 149 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,960 know, you know, performance. And then like now with Nora, I 150 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,520 do think just with the the kind of like buzz of it all, Sean 151 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,120 Baker might be more widely known as a filmmaker attached to his 152 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,120 work and more people might be seated for his like his future 153 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,840 films, which is really exciting. And so even though in Nora 154 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,200 didn't totally land or didn't I think showcase all of Sean 155 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,680 Baker's strength tonally that he does well in his like previous 156 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,400 movies, I still am really excited that this movie is 157 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,080 getting him so much attention. Yeah. 158 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,880 Well, we talked about this with Yorgos on Poor Things last year. 159 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,440 We talked about this with Luca on Challengers this year, which 160 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:28,200 is that I'm really excited by the bigness of Poor Things and 161 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,200 Challengers and in Nora. The Commercial Appeal of these 162 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,600 movies is very exciting, how they can speak to so many 163 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,240 different audiences. And I don't think in Nora is 164 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,320 going to do as well as something like Poor Things or Challengers 165 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,200 financially, but it should be like pretty critically 166 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,000 successful. If it's not Mikey Madison 167 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,440 winning an Oscar, this might win best picture, which will do a 168 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,360 lot for it in terms of more people streaming it at home. 169 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,840 And so that'll be interesting. But I think you're touching on 170 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,280 something that I've talked about with Wes Anderson too, when he 171 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,240 did Grand Budapest or like after Grand Budapest, maybe around the 172 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,600 kind of post Rushmore, let's say era of West Anderson's career. 173 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,160 There is a little bit of like, I'm going to sacrifice some of 174 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,320 my more raw themes for these more conventional commercial 175 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,280 standards while still maybe holding like a higher bar to 176 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,360 those commercial standards. So I'm still making something 177 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,520 commercially that's elevating expectations for a mainstream 178 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,080 audience, but I am sacrificing a little bit of my own 179 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,680 sensibilities and maybe more tragic interests that are 180 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:32,560 usually something you can find in more NDR house films to hit 181 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:34,880 more theaters, you know? Yeah, and maybe, you know, I'm, 182 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,600 I'm interested like maybe because we go into these movies 183 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,920 knowing the film makers interests and their filmography 184 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,560 and like things that they return to over and over again, you see 185 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:47,800 where they're pulling punches. And so I think that's more clear 186 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,840 in the Nora because I'm familiar with Sean Baker's previous work. 187 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,360 Yes, and so in saying that, I still think of Nora is pretty 188 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,520 tragic, right. Like this isn't like a just a 189 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,720 good time at the movies. Like it is going to be funny. 190 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,280 It is going to be elevated sometimes it's going to be 191 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,120 sometimes even feels like it's going to lean into somewhere 192 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,440 surreal or like Tarantino esque or or go maybe more PTA esque. 193 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,000 But it tries to blend both of those tones, which we'll talk 194 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,560 about a little bit later. And I don't think it totally 195 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:15,240 does that, but it comes very close. 196 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,920 And so the last five minutes of this movie does something that 197 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,040 is not as tragic as far as you think it's going to go in terms 198 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,160 of like, it being this like, I don't know, Goodfellas esque 199 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,440 ending or Uncut Gems esque ending. 200 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,880 But it does go somewhere that is depressing and that is, you 201 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,320 know, true to Shawn Baker's sensibilities. 202 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,560 But again, I'm not sure the movie really deserves the ending 203 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,760 it had, and we'll get to that. So let's talk about quickly, 204 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Mikey Madison's performance as Anora, because I think this is 205 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 going to be the biggest appeal for a lot of people going into 206 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,960 this movie is like, who is this young, up and coming actor? 207 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,600 I saw them in Scream, maybe Scream 5, I believe, and I saw 208 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,680 them possibly in Quentin Tarantino's Once Upon a Time in 209 00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:59,320 Hollywood. But can they lead a movie like 210 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,280 this that is trying to do a lot right? 211 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,720 Like they're trying to make Mikey Madison do a young Sharon 212 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,760 Stone from Casino as Ginger meets young Julia Roberts in 213 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,800 Pretty Woman. Can she nail that tonal balance? 214 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,960 And I would say that she actually does more than the 215 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,240 movie does. Like the movie actually doesn't 216 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,240 give her great characterization. I think it's actually a pretty 217 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,640 thin character, in my opinion. But what she does with her 218 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:29,360 expressions, her eyes, the way she reads a room, reads people 219 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,560 when they're talking to her, her reactionary vibe, I think she's 220 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:37,240 really funny, really sad and really fascinating. 221 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,200 And a lot of that credit goes to Madison and not as much the 222 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,560 writing. So I want to shout her out right 223 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,680 at the top here before being hit on spoilers because I think she 224 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,480 is, you know, you should go see this movie just to see what 225 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,280 she's up to in this film. Definitely, yeah. 226 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,960 And Sean Baker saw her and scream and immediately right 227 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,480 like called. I think the I think that night. 228 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,360 His agent or someone to the call there? 229 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,720 You know Maggie Madison's agent. Because he usually cast first 230 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,240 time actors, Yeah, in the leads of a lot of his movies. 231 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,920 And he was like, maybe I'll just find somebody's only done a few 232 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,360 roles at this stage in their career. 233 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:09,600 Yeah. And that was really smart. 234 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,080 Yeah, I mean, no, she's great, I think. 235 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,240 You know, I do also want to note though, like Sean Baker, I'm 236 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,440 assuming even within the writing, like had some pieces in 237 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,120 directing her of the more subtle moments of her kind of like 238 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,920 questioning Vanya or, you know, there there are definitely like 239 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,920 pieces that I'm sure aren't like necessarily written dialogue, 240 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,840 but are, you know, things that Mikey Madison and Shaw Baker 241 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,760 work together with. But I would agree with you, 242 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,600 like, for holistically, I do think Mikey Madison is bringing 243 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,520 kind of more sad elements, like behind her eyes, right? 244 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,040 Of like, I kind of, you know, am having fun right now. 245 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,240 But also like, should I be protecting myself right now? 246 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,520 Like she's able to bring that kind of right, like 247 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,080 self-awareness to her character. She forces the audience to 248 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,600 question how self aware is this character, Yeah. 249 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,680 And then also humanizes her at the same time that writing does 250 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,760 not do that as much for her, but the writing doesn't. 251 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,680 Also, it's not bad writing, right? 252 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:07,240 It's just underdeveloped writing to me. 253 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,960 And again, we'll get into spoilers in a second where 254 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,520 you're not thinking the movies judging her by any means, but it 255 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,320 does ultimately paint her as like Naive, which is sort of 256 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Fair because she is like a young 20 something in a position where 257 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,760 she doesn't actually have much power. 258 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,880 And but the movie almost takes away her agency when we don't 259 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,400 know enough about her character, so therefore don't know how self 260 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,760 aware she is in the film at any given time. 261 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,880 And so Mikey Madison delivers enough nuanced, subtle moments 262 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,560 when people are talking to her when they're getting a shot of 263 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,800 her, like taking her makeup off in the mirror where you're 264 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,400 thinking, OK, what how aware is this character of what's 265 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,040 happening with Vanya? What's happening with his 266 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,720 parents or these three stooges? She has to go across New York 267 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,440 with or with Igor, that character and and what happens 268 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,640 there? Because that actor does a very 269 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,840 good job. He's in his own movie. 270 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,640 He's like in his own romantic movie. 271 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,640 And I don't think Gnora is in the same film as him, but it is 272 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,800 still like a really interesting character. 273 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,400 So, you know, this is this is the Baker project. 274 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,920 He tries to add dark comedy and elevated fantasy to social 275 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,840 realism. He tries to reveal the American 276 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,760 dream as sort of a con, right, a nightmarish con. 277 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,400 And I do think he successfully does that here. 278 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:19,160 I I think so. And I think there's a lot of 279 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,960 like socio economic nuance in this movie. 280 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,160 I think there's a lot of destigmatizing sex work and 281 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,320 dancing and like what a Norris character does and like all of 282 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,880 her Co workers at the club. I think the movie does a good 283 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,840 job with those things. It just never totally leans into 284 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,880 what direction it wants to do. Yeah. 285 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,520 And then ultimately leaves me flat at the ending, but not the 286 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,680 intended flat that you're supposed to feel emotionally at 287 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,040 the end. Yeah, I almost feel like 288 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,640 intellectually flat at the end of the. 289 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,040 Film, yeah, I think that's what it is. 290 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,560 I think a lot of his other movies he does a a better job, 291 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,040 like playing with the tones at the right moment. 292 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,640 And it does feel like we're, we're watching like 3 different 293 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,400 movies here and it doesn't totally shake out to have a 294 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,160 catharsis or something that feels like, it's like honoring 295 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,200 like a Nora's character. Like you think of like a Haley 296 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,480 in Florida project. You feel like, you know, there 297 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,400 is a, a, a really like life in Haley as a character. 298 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,160 And I think that's like what you're speaking to in terms of 299 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,080 the flatness of a Nora's character, which we'll get into 300 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,480 in a second. Because I think it's almost like 301 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:22,480 built into the the suspense of the plot and how it's written 302 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,040 that actually then undercuts a Nora's character. 303 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,200 The big reveal that maybe she never had control of this 304 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,720 situation in the 1st place. Yeah. 305 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,560 And how she reacts to that, you're kind of like, wait, I 306 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,600 thought you were this character. Now you're this character. 307 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,160 Yeah. So yeah, we're going to get into 308 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,440 that. All right, before we jump in, I 309 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,160 want to quickly direct our listeners or watchers at home on 310 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,720 YouTube to the description of this episode. 311 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,800 If you're listening to this on your podcast platform, just go 312 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,080 to the show notes. If you're listening to this on 313 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,680 YouTube, hit the description of this episode where you'll find a 314 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,080 link to our Patreon. And if you sign up as a free 315 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,880 member right now, you'll have access to our Sean Baker's The 316 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,760 Florida Project deep dive, which is a 2 1/2 three hour deep dive 317 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,160 of me talking about why that's one of my favorite movies of the 318 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,880 decade. And then also Kelsey 319 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,040 surprisingly falling in love with it as much as me, which is 320 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,520 really nice on that episode. And talking about the the 321 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:14,200 tragedy that is Mooney's Cinderella fairy tale story that 322 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,280 ends up being a tragedy at the very end. 323 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:17,920 Yeah. And I mean we talk about his 324 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,080 other movies as well. And like we, I don't think we'd 325 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,480 like spoiled things or we would let people know, but we talked 326 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,720 about how he is so good at showing like the tragedy as a 327 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,480 result of kind of what you were talking about the circumstances 328 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,920 and making the environment a character in his movies. 329 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,680 To make it not like this melodrama that we normally see 330 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,360 in stories where a character is like living in poverty and is 331 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,600 able to tell a story that doesn't feel like from a damage 332 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,000 centered lens. And so we really go into that on 333 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,080 the Florida project because we kind of like live watch the 334 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,560 movie too. But he's so good. 335 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,240 At humanizing people who are usually left to be stereotypes 336 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,360 in mainstream cinema or even Indy cinema to a certain extent. 337 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,400 So yeah, that episode for right now is free on Patreon. 338 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,440 And also if you're a Gladiator fan, the Gladiator Deep Dive on 339 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,720 Patreon is free for free members right now too because of 340 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,680 Gladiator 2 coming out, which is a very good movie. 341 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,119 OK, so Anora spoilers, go see this movie in theaters if you 342 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,440 can or stream it on streamers in the next few weeks. 343 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,319 I'm sure it'll be out there. So Anora tells the story of 344 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,280 Annie Annie, right? I think so. 345 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,400 I was going to call her Anora. Anora, a 23 year old Russian 346 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,920 American dancer living in Brooklyn. 347 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,960 And as in many of Baker's films, as you put it just a second ago, 348 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,800 the environment quickly becomes a character. 349 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,640 The environment of her work life, the environment of her, 350 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,080 you know, taking the subway back after a long night, working back 351 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,440 to her home, having like, seeing a roommate. 352 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,360 There's sort of a life that in the in the periphery. 353 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,960 Like there's a Norah's life is in the periphery of this movie. 354 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,200 Yeah. Which is a good way to put it. 355 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,120 Like, why? Why? 356 00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:59,320 I was kind of frustrated at the end of the film, which is what, 357 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,480 like, it's called a Nora. And I do think there's like a 358 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,840 subtextual reason for that, which is like, her job does not 359 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,880 afford her, like her economic circumstances to do not afford 360 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,400 her to have characterization in this narrative. 361 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,000 Like a life, like an identity. Right. 362 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,320 Yeah. She's sleeping during the day, 363 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,240 going to work. Yeah. 364 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,400 I don't think we see enough of this first act to really demand 365 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,520 that kind of reflection or maybe forgiving the narrative for not 366 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,200 letting us know who she is, more considering what they the movie 367 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,840 puts her through. So we're going to get into that. 368 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,480 But we get to see a little bit of her transactional reality, 369 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,400 like her relationships in the day-to-day life. 370 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,040 And so backing up a little bit, the opening sequence of this 371 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,840 movie is pretty spectacular. We see that the film's credits 372 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,520 are placed right next to a Nora's face as she's giving a 373 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,000 lap dance. And we get this Bakerism is what 374 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,520 I'm going to call it, which is like the score drop of this 375 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,320 movie, which is this contradictory club music about 376 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,440 you're going to have the best night of your life or something 377 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,240 like that. And I've never, I don't think 378 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,800 I've ever heard this song. But it did a really good job of 379 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,760 effectively getting across like what Scorsese does in a lot of 380 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,720 his movies or a Spike Lee does in a lot of his movies, which is 381 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,400 using a, a song that will speak to the narrative's tension. 382 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,640 And it reminded me a little bit of like Mean Streets, you know, 383 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,080 in terms of. Playing with. 384 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,240 Music. In that opening. 385 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 In that way, in terms of like you're about to watch, like a 386 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,560 tragic fall of a character. Yeah. 387 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,160 I mean, he does play with that in, you know, Florida Project 388 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,880 with Celebration. That's right. 389 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,120 And then bringing it back at the end with an instrumental version 390 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:33,920 of Celebration with a a more kind of like darker undertone of 391 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,840 that song that we have such a big cultural relationship to. 392 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,720 And same with like Bye Bye Bye and Red Rocket. 393 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,680 Oh, I love that. One, yeah, that's really, I 394 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,640 think we watched out of the theatre and I was like, I forgot 395 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,520 the opening. I didn't like recognize the 396 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,120 song, I guess. And that's something that I do 397 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,800 expect from a a bigger film. You're right. 398 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,840 Yeah, so basically in Nora's life takes a dramatic turn when 399 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,360 she meets Yvonne or Vanya. And this character is a 400 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:03,320 reckless, entitled manchild, I guess is the best way to put it, 401 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,800 of a Russian oligarch family. And he's played with a hilarious 402 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,280 carefree energy by Mark Edelstein is the actor, first 403 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,040 time feature, I believe, which is incredible. 404 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,520 And he basically plays like a Russian Richie Rich, for those 405 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,080 of you who've seen that Mcculkin film. 406 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,000 And I loved the character in as far as him being just like so 407 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,760 absurdly free and and privileged and ignorant and like Naive and 408 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,440 like the way they portray him is like, not quite dangerous. 409 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,000 So you don't really feel like a Nora's life is in danger until 410 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,040 like halfway into the movie? But he's so like, careless with 411 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,800 her life. But he's so careless with her 412 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,480 that you're thinking that, OK, anything can happen to her, 413 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,560 especially because, like when they go to Vegas together, for 414 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,720 example, you're thinking, is this the first time he's been to 415 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,600 Vegas with someone in a Nora's position? 416 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,080 Has he done this before? Is what you're thinking at 417 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,880 certain points? And so the movie does a really 418 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,560 good job. And so does the performance of, 419 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,600 like, never letting you settle into something that'll just play 420 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,560 as a tragic comedy. You're kind of wondering, is 421 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,280 this going to turn into a tragic drama, which the movie does sort 422 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,240 of do in the last five minutes of the film. 423 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,920 But basically, Vanya offers a Nora $15,000 to spend a week 424 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:13,920 with him. Or I think they go back and 425 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,080 forth on that number, which is a funny shout out to Pretty Woman. 426 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,240 And about halfway into this film, that transaction escalates 427 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,240 into this like fantastical, comedic, tragic whirlwind of 428 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,960 tones where you have two carat, these two lead characters 429 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,600 eloping in a Vegas Chapel. And then we go into this 430 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,920 unpredictable territory where his family sends these like, 3 431 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,960 stooges, but really like our gangsters who are who Baker 432 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,440 tries to humanize and like, put them in positions where like, 433 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,880 they don't even want to be there in the first place. 434 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,920 Yeah, they're like doing their job. 435 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,360 They have to leave their family functions. 436 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:49,280 Yeah. Yeah, their job is to try to 437 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,640 keep Vanya at home while you're having a Nora telling them to 438 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,520 get out of, you know, her house now that she's married to Vanya. 439 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,960 And they kind of have to keep them there, right? 440 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,760 That's their goal. And we're starting to notice 441 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,160 halfway into the film, like, oh, isn't Nora like, is this 442 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,600 character self aware of the power dynamic with Vanya? 443 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,040 How much is she kind of pre planned? 444 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,280 Like what she's going to do with this, like new marriage and 445 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,000 potentially like her access to the wealth that he has? 446 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,640 Because really what she finds most appealing about Vanya, I 447 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,160 think is his freedom or his carelessness. 448 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,000 But I think that would be maybe too unfair to the character. 449 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,560 It's more like his honestly, just like truly his freedom to 450 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,560 do with what he pleases. And that is like really 451 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,760 appealing to her. And so like when he proposes to 452 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,440 her in bed in Vegas, there's a moment where you're going like, 453 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,920 and the character does this too. Like, I don't know if I believe 454 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,720 you. And you're thinking like Nora, 455 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,320 like how self aware is she even being in this moment? 456 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,400 Like, is she like playing? Is she trying to get something 457 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,960 out of this character? And it's still not super clear. 458 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,160 And it's not clear right up until really the big reveal 459 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,160 about halfway into this movie that Vanya is using her to stay 460 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,640 in the country and not. Just to avoid going to like work 461 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,880 for his father's family. Very successful type of family. 462 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,640 Yes and so like while Nora has been like objectified throughout 463 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:04,880 the film by Vanya or like sexualized by by him and like, 464 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,960 and you're kind of wondering how much does he actually care about 465 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,960 her? You really realize that he is 466 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,640 truly looking at her as like a transactional way into the 467 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:16,120 country and to to get away from his family so or just. 468 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,840 Like have fun too, because he ultimately knows that it's not 469 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,760 going to be something that his family will approve of or that 470 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,280 will be long lasting. Right. 471 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,760 So the movie is really tonally jumpy, like 2 acts and we're 472 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,280 blending romantic screwball energy with the escapist fantasy 473 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,960 energy with the serious dramatic thriller energy until we really 474 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,480 get to the point where Vanya escapes and then it turns into 475 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,960 like four people going around Brooklyn or New York City 476 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,760 looking for this drunk Russian old dark song. 477 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,040 Very tangerine energy. So what are you feeling at this 478 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,560 point in the film? Because I because I was 479 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,240 confused. I was conflicted and confused. 480 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,040 I was enjoying my experience, but I was thinking I don't know 481 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,880 if I totally love where this movie is leading me. 482 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,440 Sure. Yeah, I think so. 483 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,600 At this point. I think you're right. 484 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,760 Like we have those different movies going in. 485 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840 I had a lot of fun in the sequence where they do get 486 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,440 married. And I know like this isn't going 487 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,360 to last somehow or, you know, like I'm suspicious. 488 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,520 But I'm. I'm having a fun time in this 489 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,720 like alternate reality of like the wealth that Vanya has and 490 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,280 like the the fun that that these two characters are having 491 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,840 together. And you're right, like I am 492 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,640 wondering then also like for Anora, you know, how aware is 493 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,480 she of the kind of transaction that that's happening here? 494 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,960 Of course, like Sean Baker needs to keep us on the audience on 495 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,760 the kind of unknowing end of how sincere are Vanya's intentions 496 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,600 in saying, like, I let's get married. 497 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:52,480 How much is Anora aware of him? Basically like wanting to marry 498 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,280 her for whatever reason. There is like there are some 499 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,120 pieces of her character that you feel like maybe she's naive and 500 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,240 just you know, it's going to like go for this. 501 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,240 Maybe she's in love, right? We should definitely position 502 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,920 positions us as in that way as we go farther into this. 503 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,800 Or maybe she's suspicious and like I think those questions 504 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,920 which I are driving tension of the first part of the movie then 505 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,160 become so flattened in this comedy piece of the movie. 506 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Which is still fun. Which is still a lot of fun. 507 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,480 It's actually my favorite sequence of the movie when her 508 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,720 and the three, the three guys are like going around looking 509 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,120 for Vanya. But it becomes flattened in that 510 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,840 her character then becomes this, this I guess like character 511 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,960 who's saying like, I love Vanya. Vanya loves me, I'm his wife. 512 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,920 You all don't know what you're talking about. 513 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:50,080 And he we just need to find him because once I find him, like 514 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,280 everything will be fine and and we'll be able to work it out 515 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,160 because we love each other. Of course, the the kind of like 516 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,240 that wears off and you see her coming to a realization. 517 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,440 Maybe you know the the characters were right in saying 518 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,640 like especially, especially Toros, who is the the main guy 519 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,120 who is who's working for like the family, right? 520 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,920 Yeah, he's in a lot of big. Movies guy? 521 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240 Yeah, his name. His name is Karen Karagulian, I 522 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,320 apologize if I did not pronounce that correctly, but he's 523 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,280 excellent. He's so great and he's in 524 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,800 Tangerine. He's also the motel manager in 525 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,680 Florida Project. Yeah. 526 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,880 Oh, yeah, yeah. Because Willem Dafoe's the the 527 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,400 manager. But yeah, he's so good. 528 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,360 And when he tells Enora, like, you don't know this guy, he is 529 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,200 like the spoiled brat and he, he takes everything for granted. 530 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,480 Like you don't know what you're talking about. 531 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,680 That, that kind of tension, that Nora kind of it's, it's 532 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,800 unraveling as they're looking for him. 533 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,880 And finally, when we, we have that moment, you know, going 534 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,560 into meeting the parents, you're, you're thinking is 535 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,200 Vanya, because he's like offline right now, He's hungover. 536 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,640 He can't talk. Is him not saying anything 537 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,840 because he's hungover? Is it because he actually 538 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:06,160 doesn't love her? That moment to to kind of end 539 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,720 how it ends with such kind of a a let down, which is what Sean 540 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,440 Baker is going for in a realistic way. 541 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,760 Yeah, he's trying to be true to. People's actual lives. 542 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,520 Actually honoring a Norris character, yes, that's the 543 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,680 problem with it. So I think like to answer your 544 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,160 question, at that moment of the film when we're going into this 545 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,480 really fun, like looking for Vanya, you know, all these 546 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,400 things happened during like that time of getting the car towed in 547 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,560 New York City. Like this funny like bit about 548 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:39,480 parking it just in New York, the throw up scene, which is awful. 549 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:40,960 It's so. Oh my God. 550 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,600 Yeah. And then, you know, or then like 551 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,200 just sitting at the diner, like kind of like deflated right? 552 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,520 Then walking across the boardwalk. 553 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,880 But they also use it. They also use these moments to 554 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,360 build up Igor's movie within this movie, which is Igor's like 555 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:56,640 going through this. Hey, I'm just like a hired gun, 556 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,600 but not even a gun. I'm just like a hired dude to 557 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,200 try to keep Anora at this house or in the van or whatever. 558 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,600 And then you realize, like, oh, he lives with his grandmother. 559 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,800 He's actually seems kind of sweet, even though he has all 560 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,400 these tools, like to smash up a candy shop or whatever. 561 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,320 And there are moments in the second act that are supposed to 562 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,800 be like 3 Stooges comedy that there is this kind of like Igor 563 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,000 has his own romantic movie going on. 564 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,360 Anora is not aware of this movie. 565 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,760 He's in his own film, right? And that makes it a little bit 566 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,040 like a part of the problems that you're talking about, which is 567 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,360 that basically a Nora is just like a thinly written character. 568 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,600 And I think that you can use the justification of her sleeping 569 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,800 during the day and her at her work at at night or in the AM as 570 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,760 a reason for like not knowing more about her character. 571 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,320 But this is like a two hour, 15 to 20 minute movie where we are 572 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,600 doing a lot of bits, you know, and they're funny bits, like 573 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,960 when the lead henchman is at the synagogue or church and he's 574 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,720 like having to text while, yeah, he's like in the middle of the 575 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,800 ceremony. It's really, it's really funny. 576 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,320 This moment in the movie when he has to leave the baptism, he's 577 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:02,840 like, sorry everyone, yeah, gotta go. 578 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,440 It's hilarious. I just wish so much of this 579 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,520 movie didn't feel like a bunch of bits where Anora was kind of 580 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,200 like along the ride. Yeah. 581 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,040 And I wish I knew more about the movies titular character that it 582 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,640 literally named itself. Like it named itself Nora. 583 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,080 And it just feels like I don't like I want to know the 584 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,920 character more. And Mikey Madison is doing a lot 585 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,040 to express how she feels the character might be feeling. 586 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,360 The movie actually never gives us like the Sharon Stone ginger 587 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,240 from casino character study that I thought this movie was going 588 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,800 to be. And maybe it is a problem with 589 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,880 my expectation. So if you think it did do 590 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:39,880 everything right, you know, listeners or people watching at 591 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,480 home, I totally understand why. It's still a very good movie in 592 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,920 my opinion. But like, I was expecting this 593 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,920 to be a subversion of Julia Roberts is Pretty Woman delving 594 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,280 deeper into what Scorsese gave us with a Sharon Stone figure 595 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,920 who was interestingly and similarly exploited by that 596 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Robert De Niro character in Casino. 597 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,080 And we see her kind of like tragic journey in that film. 598 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,400 And she's painted as the subversive antagonist in that 599 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,800 movie. But really, she's probably the 600 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,560 most sympathetic figure in Casino until the last like 25 601 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,000 minutes with the kids stuff and all that. 602 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,520 But that is the the direction I thought they were going to go 603 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,480 into and they they never fully go there. 604 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640 No, Yeah, well, I had a reaction when you're like, maybe I had 605 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,000 too high expectations, but I actually think that it's a, it 606 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000 is a flaw in the writing for me, like. 607 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,360 And it's, and it's not in the case of like I, I want this 608 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,920 movie to be another movie. The movie is saying this is what 609 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,800 it's going to be. And then it takes you somewhere 610 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,080 else, and then takes you somewhere else. 611 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:35,760 I agree. Yeah. 612 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,200 I think for me, like I while I understand like, like you, why 613 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,280 people might really like this movie because it feels kind of 614 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,400 like, you know, it could be an enjoyable 3 different movies in 615 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,600 a movie, right? Like we have all these different 616 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,280 tonal shifts that feel like a journey. 617 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,560 But I think you're right in that the movie is supposed to be 618 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,880 about Inora. We don't learn about her like we 619 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:03,160 would in his movies, like Starlet and or like even in 620 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,400 Tangerine where we have this like fast-paced, literally like 621 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,560 looking for someone all night in the thought of the movie. 622 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,200 And you learn so much about the characters and like the 623 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,440 emotional relationships, right? And so I think here, like the 624 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,480 reason actually that Sean Baker had to cut us off from the 625 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,240 characterization of Mikey Madison's character of Anora is 626 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,680 because you have to have the audience and not knowing exactly 627 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,040 what's going to happen at the end of this, is she going to get 628 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,120 justice? Is she going to stay in this 629 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,120 marriage? We have to not understand 630 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,440 totally what she's thinking or maybe like how self aware she is 631 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,960 because otherwise than that like takes away the kind of big drop 632 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,920 or surprise. And that's a complicated conceit 633 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,000 for a character. And I just don't personally 634 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,400 think that that is that interesting because of how he 635 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,920 decides to take it in a direction at the end, which is 636 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,440 more Sean Baker. So like. 637 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,680 So yeah, I I agree. I think that basically like we 638 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,720 are wondering and are questioning like how self aware 639 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,160 is Inora during this these like 2 third, first thirds of the 640 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:16,400 movie and then we realize that, OK, well can we can we jump to 641 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,240 like the family? Sure. 642 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,360 Yeah, yeah. So then once the family comes 643 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,520 into the picture and Vanya, right, is kind of like waking up 644 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,880 a little bit from his hangover. At the courthouse. 645 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,840 Right. Well, on the plane, right, he 646 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,360 basically, it becomes clear to Inora that Vanya just did this 647 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,640 carelessly, you know, got married carelessly and also 648 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,600 admits to his parents, right? That like, this was not that 649 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,240 serious. It's kind of like degrading 650 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,840 towards her. And she has the realization 651 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,560 that, oh, he didn't love me like I loved him. 652 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,040 And I was just completely, you know, like, not even considered 653 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,360 as a person. And so in order to have that 654 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,520 drop that Sean Baker wanted, which was supposed to be the 655 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,160 kind of the emotional shift in the movie, you have to be 656 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,280 unaware of what Anora totally thinks. 657 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,880 Besides this idea of maybe her like, slowly being suspicious of 658 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,440 Vanya. But that I think is like, not 659 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,800 totally. It's not even like not honoring 660 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,120 her character. It's like not being like fair to 661 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,520 her character, giving her agency. 662 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,880 I love the Sharon's stone like ginger comparison cause ginger 663 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,360 like in that transaction with Robert De Niro is so upfront and 664 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,600 same with Julia Roberts and Richard Gerelike is very upfront 665 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,400 about like, I know like basically like what's happening 666 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880 here. And you feel like that, like 667 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,760 that character is a character, right? 668 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,040 And Nora, you feel like she might be like a naive right, 669 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,120 like like person. I don't think that's really 670 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,640 like, I don't, I think that's what Shawn Baker's totally going 671 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,360 for. And not that I'm judging her of 672 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,720 like, well, you know, it's not like that as an audience. 673 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,240 And I don't even think. Yeah, the movie is not doing 674 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,320 that. Yeah, but it but it doesn't work 675 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:02,840 out to to have that drop or that reveal because then I'm like, 676 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,880 Oh, well, I think that I I think that Anora would be kind of more 677 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,199 aware. Based on who we knew in the 678 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:12,560 first act where she's. Like she knows how to take care 679 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,120 of her. She's arguing for herself as 680 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,080 she's eating dinner with her Co workers like and the boss is 681 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,239 telling her to go back out there and she's like no like that kind 682 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,840 of energy from her is continued throughout the film in terms of 683 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,400 her speaking up for herself. But there is a little bit of 684 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,880 like ownership and an agency and self-awareness in the first act 685 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,000 with her character that the movie can't have her have in 686 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,719 order to have these Vegas sequences in order to have these 687 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,520 like going around New York City looking for Vanya in order to 688 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,560 have this annulment happen. Or the final conversation where 689 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,639 she kind of where she does get the cathartic yelling at the 690 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,360 parents because they raised a loser. 691 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,880 But it's not enough based on what we know about the character 692 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,520 in the first act. Like I don't believe that Anora 693 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,000 would have taken all night to have this big blow up. 694 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,520 Yeah. And what we learned about her in 695 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:00,720 the first part, yeah. Yeah. 696 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:04,800 So it was like, to me, it's less that they used it. 697 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,320 I mean, it's a part of it. Like that the movie necessitates 698 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,600 a thinly written character for the tension to be felt by the 699 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,360 audience. Like I think that is a part of 700 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,360 it, but I think the reason what this movie struggles for me to 701 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,280 be like just a four-star film, which is totally fine. 702 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,240 Again, to use letterbox language, I apologize. 703 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,600 Is that it it sacrifices the interiority of Anora or puts it 704 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,640 a lot of the the weight on the shoulders of Mikey Madison to do 705 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,160 that, to express the interiority through subtle moments. 706 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,160 But it sacrifices a lot of the characterization that we want, 707 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,640 considering what the first act gives us or what we honestly 708 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,000 what we're used to, but also what we deserve. 709 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,160 I think based on the first act of the movie to then play in 710 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,520 this multi toned narrative which it wants to be like this. 711 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,080 Not only what we deserve, what a Nora deserves. 712 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,000 That's right. And it wants to play in like 713 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,400 this multi toned narrative where it's like grounded realism. 714 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,920 It's got elevated absurdity. It wants to both be APTA movie 715 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,960 and a Quentin Tarantino film, which is an incredibly ambitious 716 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,320 thing to try to shoot for. I don't think it's ever been 717 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,240 successfully done. Yeah. 718 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,680 And maybe he's the one who's come closest to it in recent 719 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,480 years as a Gen. X filmmaker himself, who who 720 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,400 explicitly has said that he is inspired by Paul Thomas Anderson 721 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,200 and Quentin Tarantino of people that are his peers, you know, of 722 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,400 his generation. And so we never get the kind of 723 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,840 radical ending of Inglorious Basterds that the movie almost 724 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,960 provokes the audience to want. We almost want a shootout 725 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,440 sequence of this Anora against the Russian oligarchs. 726 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,040 That is Total would be totally condescending to the very real 727 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,040 tragic character. Such I think a John Wick ending 728 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,520 is going to happen, but. No, but. 729 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,760 But I think it is like. You mentioned Kill Bill when we 730 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,640 were watching. It Yeah. 731 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,640 Well, I think it's fair to be like, if you're going to 732 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,760 introduce us to a character who like really is kind of like self 733 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,800 advocating and really holds her own, it doesn't feel like kind 734 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,480 of within the heightened reality that you've given us in this 735 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,640 like search party sequence in this heightened comedy. 736 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,400 It doesn't feel like it is satisfying or her character has 737 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,760 gotten like justice at the end of the movie. 738 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,680 And I know that's where Shawn Baker's going. 739 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,760 I get that. But you're playing in that kind 740 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,440 of like Tarantino heightened reality that it's like, why not 741 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,240 just do it? Like, why not play with that? 742 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,000 For me, I know that's like expecting a different that is 743 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120 actually expecting a different movie, but I think like. 744 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,320 But also pandering to like, the very real people that Anora's 745 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,520 representing in terms of like people who are like in the 746 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,280 outskirts of culture, who like pop culture and cinema and 747 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,400 mainstream movies especially, have like created stereotypes 748 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,760 and have perpetuated those things. 749 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,560 Yeah, so I'm it's not that I'm like totally arguing for that. 750 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,960 I'm just arguing for like or maybe expecting based off of the 751 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,360 movie. I've been shown at this point 752 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,440 some sort of like satisfaction beyond saying your kids a loser. 753 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,720 Agreed. There needs to be a little 754 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,840 something because of what you said. 755 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,360 If the cost of Anora is like kind of agency like throughout 756 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,320 this movie. And so then also like the I love 757 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,840 that you brought up like PTA that it's like kind of floating. 758 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,360 The vibe of this movie is floating in the middle of the 759 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,520 Tarantino PTA, obviously not quite as heightened as like a 760 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,080 Tarantino, but but with PTA, where PTA is so good at like, 761 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,480 you know, driving the car like very fast into a kind of a 762 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,080 heightened situation that still feels like realistic or like. 763 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:33,440 Grounded me. Or like, you know, the tragic 764 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,960 for a character or like really like heightened, like found 765 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,520 family for a character, right? He's so good at creating a world 766 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,440 like completely. And part of that is so much that 767 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,320 he is great at creating like these really complex characters. 768 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,160 And so if who are going to? Backgrounds and like there is 769 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,360 depth to their. Characters and. 770 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,440 We know about their personality and who they're friends with a 771 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,240 little bit more. Like think Boogie Nights or 772 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,600 think liquorish pizza. Yeah. 773 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,000 Like, and so I think that Sean Baker is like kind of like 774 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,440 floating between these two kind of like heightened realities and 775 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,200 then doesn't do that piece, which Enora is lacking. 776 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,520 Is that kind of like understanding or depth to her 777 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,280 character. Then that ending feels 778 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,240 unsatisfying to me at least, even though I really, you know, 779 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,400 enjoyed the movie. It's just that like that, that 780 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,720 ending where she just says, like, your son's a loser doesn't 781 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,600 feel enough. It doesn't feel like it honors 782 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,440 her character enough, right? I, I get where like Sean Baker's 783 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,080 trying to go in that, especially when the mom is talking to her 784 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,760 and, you know, Anora's like, you think it's gonna be that moment. 785 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,640 Like Anora says, I'm gonna get a lawyer. 786 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,040 I'm gonna, like, take you for everything. 787 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,320 I grabbed your your arm. I was like, let's go. 788 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,600 Like. And, and again, Shawn Baker, 789 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,280 being the humanist director he is, again doesn't want to 790 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,360 condescend. In fact, I would say he probably 791 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,720 thinks movies like Pretty Women are problematic, even if this 792 00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,240 movie's deeply inspired by it because of what it. 793 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,240 The unrealistic turn it takes at the end. 794 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,680 Yes, it lets it lets audiences be entertained by something that 795 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,840 in our reality is actually much more tragic. 796 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,240 And I do think he wanted to actually give us something that 797 00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:12,560 is more true to somebody who would be in an enormous 798 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,400 position, which is actually, this is going to be an American 799 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,280 dream for someone who is the wealthy person. 800 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,360 And then it's going to be an American nightmare for someone 801 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,360 else who actually doesn't have access to those kinds of 802 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,200 resources. Yeah, I think you know it. 803 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,920 It obviously is not the, the wrong move to, like, do that in 804 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,520 terms of, like Sean Baker, what he wants to do with his movies 805 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,160 and having the mom say as a response, Oh, you think that 806 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,440 you're gonna get a lawyer, number one? 807 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,600 Yeah. Like, how are you gonna afford 808 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,440 that? And #2 Like, not only do we have 809 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,720 economic resources, like, we have enough power to ruin your 810 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,360 future. Like to make sure that you 811 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,200 basically like. And friends and family, too. 812 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,920 Yeah, yeah. And it felt. 813 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,560 Like she was talking to the audience, too. 814 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,120 Like, yeah, oh, you thought you were gonna get this? 815 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,760 Like you're not gonna get it. Yeah, but the movie again 816 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,560 doesn't. Feel like it. 817 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,360 It deserves that. If Anor, yeah, but again, that's 818 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,880 fine if Anora were then characterized with more depth as 819 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,880 we as we go into this. That's all it is, I think. 820 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,360 Yeah. And maybe a little bit less the 821 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,880 screwball energy in the second act, even though it's a really 822 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,480 fun act. And I wish there was ATV show of 823 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,080 those three guys, like driving around New York City looking for 824 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,320 rich sons of oligarchs, like oligarch families. 825 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,680 Like, that's pretty awesome. But yeah, it doesn't totally 826 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,160 lean into either side well enough. 827 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,960 Right, I guess how I feel too. And so and I think the 828 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,200 characterization is a huge part of it, but also the tonal 829 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,920 imbalance is a huge part of it. So while I appreciate that there 830 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,400 isn't some kind of false triumph, if you will, at the end 831 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,160 of the movie, and we do have this like, brutal reality check 832 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,360 of the closing car sequence between Igor and Anora. 833 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,360 And that through line really coming clear about the American 834 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,920 Dream being this ultimate con, which is certainly something 835 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,520 that Baker's been doing throughout his entire 836 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,000 filmography. I'm still like just like you 837 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,920 really conflicted about the movie as a whole and if it even 838 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,840 deserves the tragic final 5 minutes, which I think are 839 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,280 distressing, beautiful, poignant and really like great acting and 840 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,480 and a great composition in terms of how the car shot to like a 841 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,920 great 5 minutes. A truly cinematic 5 minutes the 842 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,680 the end of this movie that again, I don't think the movie 843 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,120 deserves space. Yeah, It didn't feel like the 844 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,480 movie, like Ananora's characterization built up to 845 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,800 that moment enough for it, again to like, be something that her 846 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,040 character. Yeah, Yeah. 847 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,840 I just think the movie doesn't like, deserve that kind of like 848 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,840 realness at the end that, for example, his other movies might 849 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,720 like. And I think that has to do with 850 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:42,280 his other movies being strong character movies. 851 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,320 Like we're observing different elements of the character's life 852 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,360 and that that piece is like taken out or like cut out 853 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,280 because of the comedic heightened middle that you're 854 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,360 talking. And this is what we were saying 855 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,120 at the top, which is like, you do have to sacrifice some of 856 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,080 your sensibilities or your own. And what Baker's so good at, 857 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,600 which is character studies about people who are in the margins of 858 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,400 society or have been, you know, portrayed in that way. 859 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,200 And he did have to sacrifice some of his, like, political 860 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,640 interests and social interests and sacrifice the, the Inora 861 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,720 character to make something that he felt like was more 862 00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:20,160 commercial. So I, I bet he thinks, and 863 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,120 people who give this movie like 5 stars and love it and think 864 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,600 it's a masterpiece. I bet people who are in love 865 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,480 with this film and the makers of it feel like the last, the final 866 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,960 5 minutes actually does subvert the audience expectations, does 867 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,760 provoke the audience and maybe even indict us about what we 868 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,840 want. I just wish it gave us a little 869 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,840 bit less of what we keep talking about, which are still fun beats 870 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,040 because this is such a wonderful director and he's assembled such 871 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,600 a wonderful team of like being in Vegas or of driving around 872 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,440 New York City. Yeah. 873 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,480 Then we need a little bit more of like of. 874 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,920 Anora. Yes, of a Nora feeling to the 875 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,720 audience, like as she's written, like a naive character. 876 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,440 That's the only piece that I felt like was off and really 877 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,360 wasn't something that that I've seen really in Sean Baker's 878 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200 previous films. Yeah, like taking almost 879 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:07,600 accidentally taking agency away from a character to achieve some 880 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:08,880 kind of like, commercial tension. 881 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,120 Or like surprise at the end. Yes, surprise at the end. 882 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,680 So OK, let's get to our extra credits. 883 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,080 OK, so I think Mikey Madison obviously deserves. 884 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,280 She's amazing. Yeah, I think we've said. 885 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,800 She's in a Guadagnino movie. I mean, I can't wait. 886 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,640 Like, in two or three years, whatever he's got cooking, we'll 887 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,040 be there for it opening night. Yeah. 888 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,160 I mean, she already said recently, like, somebody asked 889 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,920 her the question already, like, how many phone calls have you 890 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,280 gotten to star in what movies? And she said none. 891 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,720 Wow. But she also said she tells her 892 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:40,800 agents and publicists, which like I believe to only get back 893 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,200 to her about certain screenplays or directors that are interested 894 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,760 in working with her if they actually match her interest. 895 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,840 And if her interests are like Sean Baker, then I'm assuming 896 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,200 she's got some pretty incredible taste and she's not willing to 897 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,840 just like be the next superhero in a Marvel movie, you know. 898 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,880 So I'm really excited for her career. 899 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,200 It's going to be it's going to be a very fun one. 900 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,040 I do think she already has kind of entered so fast into that 901 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,640 Florence Pews and Daya, you know, maybe she'll be in tune 3. 902 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,440 I don't know that Dune verse of actors. 903 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,040 I guess Denise already assembled all of the great late 20s, early 904 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,520 30s actors. My extra credit is going to go 905 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,320 to the Three Stooges because I feel like I we haven't done a 906 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,800 good enough job talking about the comedy of this film because 907 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,680 we were conflicted and frustrated about what the movie 908 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,200 was doing tonally or with the the lead character. 909 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,800 But you're a Borisov as Igor is very good. 910 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,080 I mentioned a few times that he is the kind of subplot, the 911 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,400 major subplot of this movie, which is that he is slowly 912 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,960 falling in love with this person he's been hired to watch right 913 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,360 throughout the film. And as he watches Anora, I think 914 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,560 he sees that they're similar, right? 915 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,600 They are in worlds where their realities are purely 916 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,120 transactional, their relationships are transactional, 917 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,400 and the power dynamics are never in their favor or seem to never 918 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,280 be. And we learned that he's like in 919 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,120 his grandmother's house and he's drives his grandmother's car and 920 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,320 he sticks up for a nor a few moments that don't feel like 921 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:05,440 pandering. They feel more. 922 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,960 Like, yeah, I feel that. Feel like disturbed when he was 923 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,240 like, I think it's appropriate. Like if Vanya apologizes and 924 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:14,920 then the mom is, you know, like my kid will not apologize to. 925 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:15,560 Him, right? Yeah. 926 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,200 So he's very good in this movie. I've never seen him in a film, 927 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,280 so I'm excited to see what he's got next to and I think he's 928 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,600 done some television. My only issue with this 929 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,480 character is that he obviously is in like a single romance 930 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:28,440 movie. Like, I don't know how to put 931 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,160 that. Like he's in his own romantic. 932 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,800 In a different movie than he's like a Nora. 933 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,480 Yeah, like is with him. Like there is a subplot in this 934 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,760 movie where 2 characters are falling in love, but really it's 935 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,400 just Igor falling in love with a Nora. 936 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,200 It's not a Nora falling in love with Igor. 937 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,360 And so it's a weird part of the final 5 minutes where she does 938 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,000 realize that this person respects her because he took the 939 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,840 ring. So she could sell that because 940 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,160 it's obviously worth a lot of money. 941 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,800 And her first reaction obviously, is to like be 942 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,480 romantic with him or have sex with him. 943 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:58,480 And the the kind of like jarring, tragic, final, like 944 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,680 distressing, crying and almost like grieving that she's going 945 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:03,680 through about this, like the way she's been exploited or 946 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:08,200 objectified over the past few weeks with Vanya and his family 947 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,400 is really sad. But again, it doesn't. 948 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,280 It feels almost like the comedy of the character and the romance 949 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,120 of the character that he's interested in there. 950 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,640 At least the romantic feelings he has for Anora doesn't feel 951 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,160 totally deserved either, because he's just in his own. 952 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,240 Does that make sense? Which I think is fun and 953 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,120 interesting as far as like a subplot in a movie like this. 954 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,960 That's pretty actually. That's actually very good 955 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,400 writing. But I actually don't want to 956 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,360 read too much into their relationship because I don't 957 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,440 think there really is 1. Yeah, I I agree too. 958 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,640 I felt like it wasn't, it was kind of flat for me. 959 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,440 Also in beyond the idea, though, that I do think what you're 960 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,480 you're talking about worked and that he actually like I 961 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,400 appreciated his like kind of love for Nora, even though I 962 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,800 don't know if it's like love, but like it's. 963 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,280 Respect. Admiration. 964 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,160 Her like really, you know, like advocating for herself, like 965 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,800 standing up for herself, like and no like speaking on when 966 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,280 she's wronged. So I think like that was that 967 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,960 was like a successful piece of it, but ultimately didn't work 968 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,120 for me either. Yeah, and there's also some more 969 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,320 pandering stuff, like that night after they get back from the 970 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,640 jet. They have some very complicated 971 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,640 conversations. But again, it does seem like 972 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,960 they're painting her to be weirdly naive, and the power 973 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,200 dynamic is confusing. If she throws down the blanket. 974 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,600 A part of this movie is about Nora realizing that she doesn't 975 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,520 have much control. But again, that doesn't really, 976 00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:29,000 you could still have agency and still be taken advantage of or 977 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,240 exploited. And so that's a confusing line 978 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:33,920 this movie never nails. And so that through that 979 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,880 character, I think it's actually really clear because it's 980 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,040 supposed to be the most heartfelt part of the movie. 981 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,800 If you're going to call anything in this movie heartfelt, it'll 982 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,440 be a relationship that he has to the character. 983 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:44,760 But yeah, I think that's a little odd. 984 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,960 But it is very funny watching Igor and Toros, who's played by 985 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,280 Karen Kagurian and Garnik, who is the other Armenian hench men, 986 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,360 you know, run around New York City with Anora looking for 987 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,000 Vanya. Or the kind of like the humor of 988 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,120 them not wanting to keep Anora in the house, like the idea that 989 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,560 they're just like hired rent, like I guess hired hench men, 990 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,680 like hench men for rent or gangsters for rent. 991 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,640 Like that's a funny idea. And, and Sean Banker's biggest 992 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,280 strength is, I think, a little bit of his weakness here, which 993 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,200 is he spent so much time with them because he's trying to 994 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,400 humanize people who have, you know, stereotypes against them 995 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,560 or they're trying to de stigmatize many of the the 996 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,440 figures in this movie are all the characters. 997 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,840 And I do think he spends just too much time with these hench 998 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,600 men. But I still give extra credit to 999 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,400 the the comedic elements of this movie that are only exists 1000 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,840 because of what these actors are doing. 1001 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:43,520 Yeah, yeah, I I love the the three like relationships or the 1002 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,640 three characters relationships with each other there. 1003 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,320 But you're right. I I think I had a similar 1004 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,640 reaction of Sean Baker's strength in trying to humanize 1005 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,000 and show that these three men are like doing a job, especially 1006 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,360 in the I think maybe the best scene of the movie, one of them 1007 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,280 comedic wise when Toros has to leave like the baptism and gets 1008 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,800 a call right from the family. Like you're very aware of Taurus 1009 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,080 role, it's. Like texting? 1010 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,160 Yeah, that kind of build up, like that's a very funny moment 1011 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,560 and something that Shawn Baker's great at. 1012 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:19,440 And also the other moments where you know, like a Nora breaks his 1013 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,600 brother's nose and he's like, I'm just like trying to do a 1014 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,800 job, like please stay still, like that kind of thing. 1015 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,200 Or, or Igor only expecting to be there for like 2 hours, right? 1016 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,240 And turns into like 48 or something, right. 1017 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,240 And so I, I think like those are Shawn Baker's strengths and 1018 00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,840 where the comedy comes from. And there's like a dark comedy, 1019 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,120 but also like there's a during that particular sequence when 1020 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,600 they first go into the house and they're like just stay still to 1021 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,960 Anora. You can't separate that moment 1022 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,960 and like that comedy, even if it is dark humor. 1023 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,480 And it's like knowing from also like the idea that in reality 1024 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:58,000 and Nora would be in danger here or the the like violent images 1025 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,480 that we've seen like toward women in like film before. 1026 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,320 You can't separate that and so. It just feel convenient, like, 1027 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,560 oh, we're not. We're just in a fantastical 1028 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:08,440 movie. It's elevated. 1029 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,640 We're in a comedy now. Like we don't actually want to 1030 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:12,000 capture her. Isn't it funny that these men 1031 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,560 don't actually want to be violent towards her? 1032 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:14,920 They're just trying to do and that. 1033 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,880 And she's actually the one that's being violent towards 1034 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,000 them. Yeah, like flipping it. 1035 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,040 The the Enora Mikey Madison performances were funny. 1036 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,840 The physical comedy of like them, you know, getting beat up 1037 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,360 by her was like, funny. Falling in the glass tables. 1038 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,760 Yeah, but ultimately like it it, I was like, there's something 1039 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,040 like that's not self aware here. That feels strange because you 1040 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,560 feel like Shawn Baker would be self aware. 1041 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,760 Well, in the moment, I didn't really think that means it's a 1042 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,640 really great observation. In the moment, I didn't think 1043 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:42,840 too much about it. I did think it was like 1044 00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,000 interesting subversion of like what we were expecting in terms 1045 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,280 of like these hench men coming to like basically what looks to 1046 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,200 be kidnap her and, and they and they definitely de escalate 1047 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:54,440 that. In fact, it seems like the hench 1048 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,840 men respect her more than the Russian oligarch family by the 1049 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,600 end of the movie. But again, it all feels sort of 1050 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,960 tonally imbalanced and also almost at the end of the movie, 1051 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,360 again, feels pandering to the Enora character. 1052 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,640 And as far as the hench men kind of being like, well, we did tell 1053 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,400 you, like we did tell you that Vanya was like not a good guy. 1054 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,600 And we told you this family was like not a family you could 1055 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,600 trust. And now look at this situation 1056 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,720 where we're going to send you some money to your account, like 1057 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:19,040 whatever they said, $10,000 or something, something like that. 1058 00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,080 And then she goes and picks it up the next morning with Igor at 1059 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,840 the bank. And it does feel like she is 1060 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,520 this like a cautionary tale and also like a young 20s moral 1061 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,200 lesson for a character that is like Sean Baker knows better 1062 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,240 than to do that with because he already is trying to do so much 1063 00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:37,320 to humanize the character. So taking agency away from them 1064 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,240 and taking away their kind of self-awareness feels 1065 00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:44,240 unnecessarily complicated. Or he, he maybe even like D, 1066 00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:48,120 complicates what could have been a more morally complex story. 1067 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,480 So yeah, I guess my extra credit is actually a critique. 1068 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,960 My bad. No, but I do. 1069 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,640 No, no. I think the extra credit of 1070 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,840 these like three guys. They're great bits, yeah. 1071 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,200 Yeah, yeah, especially during the especially the moments where 1072 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,320 they're they're searching for Vanya is great. 1073 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,880 It's where, you know, Tangerine's comedy like really 1074 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,760 is heightened. It's just that it focuses your 1075 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,280 right more so on the men's relationships with each other, 1076 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,360 especially the brothers, like which is very funny. 1077 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,720 It's great stuff. But but you're right, like 1078 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,600 unfortunately, because the Enora isn't the center of like those 1079 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,720 relationships or like that that comedy all the time as it is, as 1080 00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:29,680 like you know, Shawn Baker does do in Tangerine and we like get 1081 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,360 more depth from characters throughout the comedy. 1082 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:35,400 It it just doesn't work as much here. 1083 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,120 But but I think it is a good extra credit because that I mean 1084 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,520 that's my personal favorite part of the movie just. 1085 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,720 Which it shouldn't be. I know because it's, yeah. 1086 00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:45,640 No, not should be for you, but I agree that it's the most like 1087 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,120 successful. Like he he weirdly feels the 1088 00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,320 most comfortable there. Movie almost because it should 1089 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,120 be like a shorter piece of the movie. 1090 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,320 Much shorter, yeah. Yeah, or, you know, again, like 1091 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,760 we've repeated too many times probably now, but like the idea 1092 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,960 of like shifting a Nora's character or tweaking her 1093 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,960 somehow. Yeah, in characterization, yeah. 1094 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,080 I really love the first act of this movie. 1095 00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,400 And the third act come down doesn't feel deserved because 1096 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,400 the second act is so much fun. Yeah. 1097 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,240 And the movie doesn't feel like it wants to be fun. 1098 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,560 So yeah, I do think it's ultimately a really ambitious 1099 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:15,880 swing from Sean Baker. I really want people to go and 1100 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:17,560 see this. So if you listen to this whole 1101 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:18,960 episode, you've not seen this movie. 1102 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,640 Thank you for listening. But go see this film. 1103 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,640 We've seen it twice. I'm totally fine if this one's 1104 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,120 best picture. I haven't seen everything in the 1105 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,080 year, like Brutalist or Queer or Nosferatu, which will have no 1106 00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,360 chance because it's a horror film. 1107 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,440 But there are a lot of movies to come that I expect will compete, 1108 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,560 you know, for my own personal rankings of the year. 1109 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,560 But Inora is easily a top ten movie of the year, probably my 1110 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,080 top five right now, sitting comfortably next to Challengers 1111 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,400 and Furiosa and Dune and among other movies. 1112 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,240 But yeah, I'm really excited to see what Baker's, you know, got 1113 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:50,280 next. I'm sure he has something 1114 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,400 planned because this is a movie he's been thinking about for 15 1115 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,240 or 20 years. And I'm really excited to see 1116 00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,440 the future of the career of Mikey Madison. 1117 00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,160 Yeah, me too. OK, next time on the podcast we 1118 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,320 are going to be covering probably some Patreon episodes. 1119 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,640 We have a big Denzel week coming up because Gladiator 2. 1120 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,320 If you liked what you hear, please go ahead or like what you 1121 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:09,840 heard. Sorry. 1122 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,960 Please go ahead and like and subscribe to this YouTube 1123 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:13,120 channel. Or if you're listening on your 1124 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,800 podcast, 5 stars on Spotify or Apple, leave us a review. 1125 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,040 Let us know in the comments of our YouTube video. 1126 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,240 What did you like about Anora? Yeah, or maybe like, what are 1127 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:25,160 your favorite Sean Baker movies? And if you agreed or disagreed 1128 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,000 with, you know, our conflicted feelings about the Enora 1129 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,840 character, I think this was a really fun movie. 1130 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,240 Yeah, definitely. And I, I understand why people 1131 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:34,080 love it too. It's just that I feel like it's 1132 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,240 being talked about as if the strengths of like a Florida 1133 00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:37,520 project. Maybe that's where I'm coming 1134 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,680 out a little bit harsher on it. But yeah, let us know what you 1135 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,600 think. And also, I love a Sean Baker 1136 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,880 ranking if you've seen his other movies. 1137 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,000 Yeah, let us know in the comments. 1138 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:46,920 All right, guys. See you. 1139 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:47,440 Bye.