1 00:00:08,630 --> 00:00:11,910 Hello, I'm Charles Manic with the UK Column interview, and 2 00:00:11,910 --> 00:00:16,230 today I have with me Magda Taylor and Magda, first of all, 3 00:00:16,390 --> 00:00:18,270 a very warm welcome to UK column. 4 00:00:18,270 --> 00:00:19,110 Thank you for joining me. Oh. 5 00:00:19,670 --> 00:00:21,710 Charles, thank you so much for inviting me on. 6 00:00:21,750 --> 00:00:24,990 I've been a follower of the UK column News for many years 7 00:00:24,990 --> 00:00:28,750 actually, so it's a pleasure. Not at all. 8 00:00:28,830 --> 00:00:31,630 Well, I think that's a great start for the audience. 9 00:00:31,630 --> 00:00:36,040 But now to introduce you, I will sort of hand over to you. 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,920 But I will just put it out there that that you have set up and 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,120 been running the informed parent for what's really an awfully 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,320 long time now. But let's just go back to 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,720 establish the the sort of start point. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,280 What is the informed parent and why did you set it up? 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,480 Well, it's for me. It started in September 1991. 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,480 One evening I happened to be looking through the London 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Evening Standard journal that they published. 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,320 And there was, I opened the page to an article, Vaccination, the 19 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:11,160 Hidden Facts. And it was just at the time when 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,240 my second daughter was due for her MMR. 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,400 And I read it. And I've never had this 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,800 experience before, but a huge alarm bell went off in my body 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,120 because I started to think, hang on a minute, what I'm reading 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,480 here, There's so much I never thought about before because I 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,200 think I'm typically most people would just grow up believing 26 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:39,120 vaccines have been, you know, eradicating smallpox and various 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,280 other diseases have come down much lower. 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,200 And you're brought up to believe it's a very important thing. 29 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,760 And it only takes a few seconds. And it's it's you know, it's 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,840 worth that little bit of pain. And of course, when you're a new 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,080 mum, you don't really know much about being a mum. 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,760 You're learning on the job, You're trying to do everything 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,600 right. And so I just followed the 34 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,280 schedule at the time, which was back in my first daughter was 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,920 1988 when she was born. So this article touched on 36 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:18,720 various things about how, you know, there was a huge decline 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,680 before disease, the diseases came before, sorry, before the 38 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,760 vaccines came in, and also about the ingredients it touched on. 39 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,680 It also touched on how it comes into your body unnaturally, 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,840 etcetera, etcetera. Then it's mentioned vaccine 41 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,960 damage, which I'd never really realised it existed, so there 42 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,040 was all sorts of things. But in those days there was no 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,840 Internet. So at the end it said send a 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,480 stamped addressed envelope to get the suggested reading list. 45 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,320 Well, I don't think the London even Standard would send that 46 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,520 same suggested reading list today. 47 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,480 In fact, I did post it in recent times because most of them were 48 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:08,840 books by doctors who had grown to kind of look into the 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,440 subject. And that was, you know, back in 50 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:17,160 the 1980s, there were various books coming out then that 51 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,400 questioned vaccination and what was it actually causing. 52 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:29,240 And so I just literally became absolutely determined to go 53 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,880 through as much information as possible because I'm not the 54 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,840 type that just reads something and then just agrees with it or 55 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,600 whatever. So I just literally started 56 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,560 ploughing my way through the reading list. 57 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,520 And they were all books you had to buy, specialist books you had 58 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,640 to order, you couldn't get them in the local bookshop. 59 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,800 And as I did that, you naturally start talking to people. 60 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,760 And then someone put me in touch with some health professionals 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,240 who had questioned it and it was, it just started to 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,600 snowball. And about a a few months later, 63 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,720 some parents contacted me who hadn't had their children 64 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,960 vaccinated. They'd actually had information 65 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,000 given to them by their midwives during their pregnancy. 66 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,920 Independent midwives, I have to say, which I think now barely 67 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,960 exist because of the system is sort of hijacking all these 68 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,000 bodies to make everything very medicalised. 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:39,400 So, so we got together and we, I was the only one out of those 70 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,200 mothers who hadn't, who'd followed the vaccination 71 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,640 schedule. The others had, you know, 2 from 72 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,800 their midwives. The other one was a health 73 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,120 journalist and she'd studied health, which most doctors 74 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:58,400 don't, may I add. And we, we came together and the 75 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,880 four of us decided, let's set something up. 76 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,200 The informed parent, we're not saying what you should or 77 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,880 shouldn't do, we're just saying please look into it and study it 78 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,920 widely and then make your own decision. 79 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,960 And that's sort of precisely what we did. 80 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:22,280 So September 1992, we set up, it was very small scale. 81 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,080 We were just photocopying a sort of very basic newsletter to a 82 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,400 handful of people and, and it slowly sort of spread. 83 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:36,040 And you know, we've by the time 92 was a, a, a period of a 84 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,960 little bit of investigation into the MMR as well. 85 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:46,800 There was some coverage. And then 1994, so we'd been 86 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,920 running about two years. There was a lot of headlines 87 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,200 etcetera about measles and this triggered off a huge interest. 88 00:05:55,200 --> 00:06:00,600 So we, you know, we suddenly grew to about 1800 subscribers 89 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,200 from about, you know, 50, a hundred at the beginning. 90 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,440 And there were so many parents desperately trying to find 91 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,600 information as because they'd never, they'd always thought, 92 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,360 you know, there's nothing to question as I did. 93 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,800 I didn't, I was thinking what hidden facts. 94 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:24,600 So that's how it started and over the years, obviously on the 95 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,440 Internet came in, there's a lot more access to medical 96 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,360 literature if you want to do that. 97 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:36,240 But I, what I tended to do with the newsletters is just look 98 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,960 across the world, what sort of articles, information, sometimes 99 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,120 from medical journals, scientific journals, sometimes 100 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:49,400 from holistic practitioners, a huge mix, sometimes from people 101 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,560 who've experienced vaccine damage with their children. 102 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,960 So a huge mix and a lot more on health really. 103 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,640 And then investigating the background in why we do 104 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,440 vaccination even, you know, because it's all based on the 105 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,160 germ theory and all these virus theories and contagion theories, 106 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,440 which when you really start looking into them, you might 107 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,400 wonder how on earth they've continued all these years. 108 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,880 So, but that's, you know, it started with just me reading 109 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:28,120 something and the others being kind of advised to look into it. 110 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,280 And but I start I within a few years, it was such a lot of work 111 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,040 because we were all mothers and etcetera and trying to have 112 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,840 other jobs. But I decided to carry on with 113 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,040 it. The others couldn't. 114 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:47,920 So I just carried on and here I am 33 years later and although 115 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:53,160 sadly the last newsletter is, is, is come just at this moment 116 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,440 was the last newsletter. I still continue with the 117 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,320 website and I might start writing articles individually 118 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,920 and make them available. So I'm, and you know, it's, I 119 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,280 feel sorry more for the younger parents of today because there's 120 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,280 huge pressure and the schedule has become enormous. 121 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,640 Now in the first year, the baby received so many vaccines. 122 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,640 When I even compare with my daughters who are in their 30s 123 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,960 and, and even myself, you know, there was virtually no vaccines 124 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:30,920 then. Thankfully. 125 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,240 I'm I'm glad I was born when I was so. 126 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,720 Yeah. I mean, you know, exactly as you 127 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,120 say the, the times have changed so much. 128 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,760 I mean, I think really the, the most, almost the the most 129 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,280 incredible thing that's dropped out of what you've just said is, 130 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,480 is that that start point. And here we are in 2026 now. 131 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,040 And given the sensitivities around vaccination and indeed 132 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,080 the propaganda surrounding the campaigns that accompany either 133 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,960 new or existing vaccinations, I think the most remarkable part 134 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,160 of your story is the fact that the Evening Standard would have 135 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,640 published such a thing. I mean, it, it seems hardly 136 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,120 possible looking back. I mean it might be difficult to 137 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,080 do this objectively, but but do you now consider that that was 138 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,760 an extraordinary thing for it to have done then or was that was 139 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,960 that sort of to be expected? Extraordinary because actually 140 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,280 in those first few years, even up to the end of the 90s, there 141 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,520 were quite a lot of interest in programmes on BBC, believe it or 142 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:41,360 not, Radio 4, You and Yours, Women's Hour. 143 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:45,840 I was invited to a few of these breakfast TV programmes. 144 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,880 They were actually very pleasant to me, the presenters and there 145 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,240 was discussion and there was admissions about things, but it 146 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:02,400 got less and less. So by the end of the 1990s into 147 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,520 the 2000s, I started to notice changes and, or if you were 148 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,160 invited often it would be edited out so much that you've actually 149 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240 said nothing or you or they took it out of context. 150 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:22,440 Or if I was involved on a debate on the radio, I would be the 151 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,520 only one who was muted. And if there was a discussion 152 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,720 with a few people, doctors and they only let me say something, 153 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,960 hello and who I am and bye bye almost. 154 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,800 It was that bad. And no one else was muted. 155 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,280 So these are the sort of things I came up against. 156 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,560 And and then of course when I because when you're just a, an 157 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:50,600 ordinary person thrown into ATV or radio programme, it's very 158 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,000 nerve wracking. And obviously I was, I gradually 159 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:00,080 got better at it and then I had less invitations because in 160 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,600 fact, what was it? One Department of Health, 161 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,160 Leicestershire, Radio Leicester invited me on and they wanted me 162 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,720 to debate with a medical doctor from their area. 163 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,800 This was quite a number of years ago and they refused to come on 164 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,680 because they said that I came across too credible. 165 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,080 You'd think they would have actually said, oh, I can't wait 166 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,960 to speak to this woman and we've put her straight. 167 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,080 But no, they backed out and just did a recorded message. 168 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,440 So it's quite interesting. Fascinating. 169 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,360 Absolutely. It is completely astonishing. 170 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,280 I would say, Magda, no, given what you've just been 171 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,320 describing, you know, you'd have to be sort of have taken leave 172 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,560 of your senses not to realise that that the situation 173 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,840 obviously has changed enormously. 174 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,360 And you say that that started to happen sort of towards the end 175 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,040 of the 90s, early 2000s. It might not be possible to 176 00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,120 ascribe it to one thing, but but what did change and and why do 177 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,360 you think that did change? I think that actually there was 178 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,320 a growing awareness creeping in. So the only way they can deal 179 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,600 with that is that actually put in more pressure bringing out 180 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,280 more vaccines. They, they own the media as we 181 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:21,000 know generally, and it's very easy to put out these headlines. 182 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,000 It seemed to be like measles. It was almost every so many two 183 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,200 or three years there'd be these huge headlines. 184 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,680 Measles is back and your child could die and all these adverts. 185 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:39,600 And so I, I know that there was already, as I've said to many 186 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,440 people, it didn't just start a lot, a lot of people think, oh, 187 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,280 it was because of the MMR that we started questioning. 188 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,400 No, we questioned from back in the early 1800s. 189 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:56,200 And if anyone cares to really delve into the history, there's, 190 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,840 I've got a lot of old literature on my website and I couldn't 191 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,880 believe what I was reading, quite honestly. 192 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:08,200 So although there wasn't a kind of movement of of people that 193 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:14,000 they would call now anti vaxxers because as this smallpox vaccine 194 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:22,040 crept in during the early 1800s, they got to a point where they 195 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:28,120 decided to make it compulsory. So in 1853, and by that time 196 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,560 there was a lot of growing criticism, but the mainstream 197 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:37,840 people in charge or charge would always be in control of of what 198 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,880 was being said or done. But I just wanted to read this 199 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,520 tiny few words. When they did bring out this 200 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:51,040 compulsory vaccination act, The Lancet, which actually started, 201 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,280 the reason it was called The Lancet was because it was 202 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,840 supposed to be a critical analysis of medical literature 203 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,720 and medical procedures. So it was like, so, you know, 204 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,720 look, cutting away and looking at what this, you know, whatever 205 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:11,960 they're working on or some procedure or medical products. 206 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,600 So this is what they said in The Lancet. 207 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,360 And this was 1850, three, 21st of May when they brought the 208 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,480 bill in before Parliament. They just said it in the public 209 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,240 mind extensively. And in the profession itself, 210 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:30,240 doubts are known to exist as to the efficacy and eligibility of 211 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,240 vaccination. This is the This is the bit. 212 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,120 The failures of the operation have been numerous and 213 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,840 discouraging. So if they were numerous and 214 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,120 discouraging, you'd wonder why they made it compulsory. 215 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,440 Yes, well, this is exactly it. And of course you know that was 216 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,760 set along. So I can't remember exactly the 217 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,000 chronology, but the National Anti Vaccination League was in 218 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,680 existence, I think maybe not quite by 1853, but that again. 219 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,680 Triggered it actually. Yeah, right. 220 00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:59,480 OK. Yeah. 221 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Once things were compulsory, people started to pull together 222 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,880 articles written and it was over the next few years there were 223 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,160 different areas that say the Midlands or the London abolition 224 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,440 of vaccination and there were various groups in the country 225 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,720 and, and eventually they all came together as the National 226 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,920 Anti Vaccination League and many doctors were involved, you know. 227 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,160 Yes. Well, I think you know, and 228 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,000 again, this is the thing you're quite right to, to point back to 229 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,840 the history and this is what I really would like to to get 230 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,560 into. You've mentioned germ theory and 231 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,320 the significance that that has in so far as the, you know, 232 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,000 marketability of, of vaccines is concerned in the 1st place. 233 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,360 Let's just go back to Jenna and, and you know, the sort of 234 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,880 narrative surrounding that. I mean, what? 235 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,440 What is your take on what he was doing and why? 236 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,360 Well, it's prestige, isn't it, to become a doctor. 237 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,680 But he he he was mostly speculating. 238 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,760 And when you read about how they get their medical qualifications 239 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,640 in, in those days, if it's almost laughable. 240 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,840 But I think he would it like some of these people. 241 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,680 They just want to be find something and discover something 242 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,080 and become famous. And he based all his ideas on on 243 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,480 myths, local myths. There wasn't any good science of 244 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,920 any kind. And he did they, you know, there 245 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:30,200 were many, many failures. And also, they didn't always do 246 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,880 the procedure as they should in those days. 247 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,680 I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't like a needle. 248 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,600 It was very crude. So they'd be making cuts with a 249 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,280 Lancet and rubbing in a product. You know, the well with Jenna, 250 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:50,440 it wasn't smallpox material that he was rubbing into the the cup. 251 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,680 He was, he was rubbing in cowpox. 252 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,600 He claimed cowpox was similar to smallpox. 253 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,440 I mean, when you, you'd have to spend hours talking about it, 254 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,800 but when you start looking into it, there's no real, there's no, 255 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,920 there's no relationship with those two presentations. 256 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:15,359 Like smallpox back in the 1600s and even back in the 9th 257 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,680 century, there was a Persian doctor, then Raz's. 258 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:25,040 I mean, he he considered it that it was just the body expressing 259 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:31,440 toxicity, cleansing, purging the body and that these rashes, they 260 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,840 had to be allowed to come out. They were cleaning up the 261 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,440 system. And then in 1600s we have the 262 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,920 English Hippocrates, Thomas Sydenham. 263 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,800 And he said something very similar. 264 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,800 And he said even then, now this is smallpox in 1600s, you think 265 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,720 everyone was dropping down dead with it, the way we've been 266 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,440 brought up. But he, he actually this, I have 267 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,280 to say this bit, he thought the danger of smallpox was too much 268 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,960 interference and who by the medical people. 269 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,840 He said how it's clear to me from all observations that I can 270 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,080 possibly make that if no mischief be done either by 271 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,800 physician or nurse, it is the most slight and safe of all 272 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,520 other diseases. And this was in the 1600s. 273 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,160 And they were, they were talking about mild then. 274 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:29,400 I mean, if you're living in squalor, eating very poorly and 275 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,640 no light and and no proper housing, people do die. 276 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,960 It's not easy to keep your health. 277 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:43,800 So it's it wasn't in those days those even in the 1800s, there 278 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,000 were a lot of doctors that saw all these what they called 279 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,840 fevers. So that would cover smallpox, 280 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,120 typhoid, measles, diphtheria. They were all methods of the 281 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:58,880 body trying to clear the system to get better, to get returned 282 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,360 to homeostatis when you you're in good health as such. 283 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:10,000 And if you don't allow that process to happen, then it will 284 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,880 stay in the body and make you sicker. 285 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,960 So acute in childhood, for instance, if they're suppressed, 286 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,640 they become chronic and chronic leads to adulthood problems. 287 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,520 And then as you get older, you're starting to look at 288 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,600 cancers and degenerative because the body never cleared itself 289 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,400 out. It's you know, and when we hear 290 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,960 about all problems, some children, you know, die of this, 291 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,200 that and the other, they don't die of those conditions. 292 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,560 They die of their living conditions where they are war 293 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,760 zones, etcetera. And they also die of too much 294 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,880 interference like Thomas Sydenham mentioned, you know, 295 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,520 suppression, suppressing the fever, giving them antibiotics, 296 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,440 et cetera, et cetera. So there's so many aspects that 297 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,000 are done almost in the the opposite way round to how they 298 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,880 should be and how we've all been in modern times led to believe 299 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,760 that all these things are are out there to get us, you know, 300 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,760 and. I think also with the history, 301 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,720 Jenner himself, he didn't, he wasn't into the germ theory. 302 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,080 He was just speculating about local myths. 303 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,400 It was the germ theory came later with Louis Pasteur. 304 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,640 And that was very much at the end of the sort of later part of 305 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,800 the 1800s when you're also seeing big companies like, you 306 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:47,160 know, the oil industry looking for ways of, of entering the 307 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,960 sort of medical world. And I'm sure all your, your 308 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,280 listeners know about all those aspects. 309 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,840 But so they, they wanted to medicalise every aspect if they 310 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,840 could. And Louis Pasteur fortunately 311 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,760 came along and, and again, if people take the time to read 312 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:11,120 about him, there are many books now about his fraudulent 313 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:17,240 experiments and how he he just kept tweaking everything until 314 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,440 he got the result he wanted. He apparently, and when 315 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,840 apparently he did, he held two different Diaries, one the 316 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,680 public diary of his experiments and one that was a private 317 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,520 diary. And there is a book written 318 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,960 about that as well and uncovering how he twisted things 319 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:43,280 or plagiarised other people and then presented various theories 320 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:48,440 that people latched onto because it suited he knew the right 321 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,760 people. He's if we can say to the world, 322 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,600 oh, there's germs that are going to get you, but don't worry, 323 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,280 we've got this vaccine to protect you, then, you know, 324 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,320 you've got a big marketplace out there. 325 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,400 And so we all grew up, you know, not it's worse now. 326 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,320 But, you know, even when I was a child, all the ads saying germs, 327 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,240 you know, let's kill them all 100% whatever. 328 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,320 And you know, you, you do think, oh, you know, everything around 329 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,720 you might harm you, you know, so. 330 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,360 But it's it's very worth, it's much worse now children, you 331 00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:32,240 know, almost a kind of wrapped in cotton wool a lot of the 332 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,840 time, you know, they're not they're not letting them run 333 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,600 around playing out in in the nature and they're stuck in 334 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,120 front of screens mostly, I think these days, by the looks of it. 335 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,880 Yes, I mean, you know, the, the correlation really is impossible 336 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,120 to ignore or it shouldn't, shouldn't be ignored. 337 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,080 And, and and I think this is, you know, so much to do with 338 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,520 what we're talking about correlation and and causation. 339 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,760 First of all, the, the book about pastor and his his own 340 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,760 personal diary entries. What? 341 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,960 What? What's that book called? 342 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,440 Do you remember? Yes, it's the private life of of 343 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:17,520 Louis Pasteur, but I, Professor Geisson GEISONI, have got a 344 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,360 copy. It's rather expensive. 345 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,800 I have to will warn you. No, I mean, I, I know people 346 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,840 will be interested in this and particularly in sort of, you 347 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,880 know, printed material. So I'll put a I'll put a note 348 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,240 about that in in the notes below this interview. 349 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,200 Yes, I mean, Professor Guison actually he studied over 10,000 350 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,200 pages of of the Diaries because the what happened was they 351 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,720 weren't the private one, wasn't meant to be public. 352 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,600 But I think it was a great, it was either a grandson or a great 353 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,880 grandson that actually donated it to the Paris Academic 354 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,760 Library. And so it was then available. 355 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:58,200 And that's when this professor did all his, his investigation. 356 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,720 But there were there the name that people don't know about is 357 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,800 Bechamp, who was also another French scientist at the time. 358 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,560 But most people, the average person hasn't heard of him. 359 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:14,440 But he, he did a lot more thorough investigation of why do 360 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,040 we get sick? And he, he, he came to the 361 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,000 conclusion with after a, a, a lot of intensive study that 362 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,920 it's, it's not the germ, it's the internal soil of the body. 363 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:32,360 And that obviously your internal terrain is, is very much based 364 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:37,600 on where you live, how you live, what, what you eat, even your 365 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,920 emotional situation. If you're surrounded by wars and 366 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:49,120 people very agitated, that's not anything that can harm or create 367 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,400 an imbalance in your health is going to lead to symptoms. 368 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:58,040 So the symptoms that we produce generally, unless you've been 369 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,040 horribly poisoned there and then, I mean, they're the body 370 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,360 trying to throw stuff out. I mean, either coughing, 371 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,720 sneezing, rashes, these kinds of sweating, you know, all the 372 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,640 things where your body is trying to throw whatever the problem is 373 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,040 out, you know, it's toxicity of some kind, you know? 374 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:20,840 Yes, exactly. So. 375 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,240 And and you know, to your point, well, first of all, I think 376 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Sydenham's remarks about too much interference, I mean, it's 377 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,640 incredible here we are now to think of how many different 378 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,600 things that could be applied to, I mean, midwifery you've already 379 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,960 mentioned, but well outside of sort of health and medicine. 380 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,280 I mean, too much interference is sort of the phrase of the year 381 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,680 really. But thinking about not just 382 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,440 Jenna, but but anyone who has had a part to play in getting us 383 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,800 to where we are now. I mean, scientific history is 384 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,920 littered with ego being the main driver for what's subsequently 385 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,640 referred to as discovery. Do you get the sense that in 386 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,720 Jenna's case, it was more than ego? 387 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,440 I mean, as in, did he see or was he involved in the commercial 388 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,960 opportunity of inoculation or vaccination as a result of what 389 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,840 he was apparently striving to prove? 390 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,560 Well, he did because of his ideas. 391 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,920 Initially. He did send in various ideas. 392 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,320 It's all and because they the original ideas he had were a 393 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,280 little bit extreme because he claimed that that you you 394 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,720 couldn't just take the cowpox matter from the cow with it. 395 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,960 It was to do with horses hooves and as well. 396 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,040 And you're like, it's a bit sounds a bit peculiar, which it 397 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,840 was, but the medical establishment at the time 398 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,520 thought it was a bit no, hang on. 399 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,360 We don't want to watch this with it's got to involve horses, 400 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,320 hooves and the people working with them. 401 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,080 And they didn't wash their hands properly. 402 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,000 Then they milked the cows. It, it sounds ridiculous as I'm 403 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,360 saying it. This is the sort of science he 404 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,720 did, but he did when he, when he realised they were jumping on a 405 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,360 bandwagon of bringing out some kind of vaccination and he was 406 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:08,480 the the chap who'd kind of brought it up at that time 407 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,000 because they didn't like his other ideas. 408 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,360 He started to change them just to suit because he didn't want 409 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,800 to lose the grip of all the fame and the money. 410 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,440 Yeah. Because there were other doctors 411 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,120 starting to do different techniques saying, oh, you don't 412 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,880 need to worry about these horses, heels and the 413 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,120 inflammation from there or it's just the cowpox. 414 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,960 And he's, he did change his it to suit. 415 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,240 I mean, he didn't die a happy man. 416 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,920 You would think that being that he was the the inventor of 417 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,600 vaccination, he would have died in glory. 418 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,400 No, he was full of anguish. There was so much criticism by 419 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,560 then. He, he, he didn't know which way 420 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,680 to turn. And he was coming up with all 421 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,560 sorts of excuses as to why vaccination failed so many times 422 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,560 and not just failed, it made people sick or even killed them. 423 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,200 I mean, there was so much death. There was another scientist, oh, 424 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:16,320 Russell, Alfred Wallace Russell. And he later in the in the 425 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,280 century and he talked about all the thousands that would have 426 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:24,760 died due to this unscientific superstition. 427 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,120 There were quite a number. There was another professor, 428 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,640 Charles Creighton. He was, he was just a well 429 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,520 respected medical person and he was asked, invited to write a 430 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,280 piece of vaccination in the Encyclopaedia Britannica for the 431 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,440 ninth volume. And so he was because he was a 432 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,120 thorough man. He did a proper investigation 433 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,360 and from starting at a point of thinking vaccines, well, the 434 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,440 vaccination was wonderful, smallpox vaccination, he became 435 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:02,200 a huge critic by the end of it. And so he wasn't, you know, he 436 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,040 started from a bias of think, believing in it. 437 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,800 And another doctor. I'm trying to think, oh, 438 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:14,000 Professor Cruikshank at the he was a bacterologist at the time. 439 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,240 He was so surprised that his his Creighton's findings. 440 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,360 He looked into it as well and he'd joined him in the 441 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,040 criticism. You know, it's unbelievable. 442 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,800 And that's just a few, I'm giving you examples. 443 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,600 There's loads of other really fascinating books, literature 444 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,800 from that era, doctors who originally believed in it. 445 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,360 They say we believed in it. They didn't say, oh, I studied 446 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,160 it thoroughly, they just believed in it. 447 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,800 Yeah. Well, I'd like to return to 448 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,600 that, that that sort of idea that that people's state of mind 449 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,280 can be altered by what they discover and, and to relate that 450 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,360 to the sort of present day about effectively the the certain 451 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,880 knowledge that a product will kill people. 452 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,680 We'll, we'll, we'll come back to that. 453 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,840 But let let's just just push out a bit further on the on pasta 454 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:11,160 again ego with him and just just explain the the significance of 455 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,720 germ theory in the modern marketing of vaccines. 456 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,600 It's, you know, effectively it's it's necessity to the the idea 457 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,120 of vaccination. Well, that's it. 458 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,720 I mean, if we just, you know, with or even if, well, germs, 459 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,840 they say where's club? They say germ. 460 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,680 I mean germ. What does it mean anyway? 461 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,160 It means something, a seed that's going to germinate. 462 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:39,360 It's life actually. But they've they seem to turn 463 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:46,280 every word inverted in a way. But germs, they, they club them 464 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,840 together and they of course they include viruses. 465 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,080 And as we know, bacteria, yes, bacteria exist. 466 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,040 They're living organisms. And if they happen to find some 467 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,240 bacteria growth in an, in someone who's sick, they 468 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,920 immediately blame the, that germ on that particular set of 469 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:11,560 symptoms. Whereas when you look at health 470 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,400 and how things occur, I mean, the germs we're, we're teeming 471 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,440 with life in our body and without them, we'd be dead. 472 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,320 They actually are clean up crew and they, they clean up and 473 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,120 they, they're scavengers. So often you might get an 474 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,720 overgrowth of something and when it's cleaned everything up, it 475 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,360 disappears again because there's no food left for it. 476 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,200 But it's done us a favour. Viruses are hugely different 477 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,680 because they came onto the scene more when, well, Louis Passeur, 478 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,920 for instance, couldn't find a bacteria that he could blame for 479 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,680 certain illnesses. So he said it must be something 480 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,400 tiny that I can't see. And then a few decades later 481 00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:00,760 when they started bringing out electron microscopy, I hate that 482 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:07,000 word. And they started to label some 483 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:12,480 little tiny nano particles. They thought this must be the, 484 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,680 the, the something, well, something that's causing it. 485 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,560 So then they label it virus. But some of the doctors I've 486 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,080 come across even way back 20 years ago where they were 487 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,360 looking at what is a virus? Well, no one's actually ever 488 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,520 actually isolated this nanoparticle and proven it to be 489 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,320 pathogenic or contagious or anything. 490 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,080 So all these things have been. It's very poor science that 491 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,240 you'll find in vaccination particularly that any properly 492 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,760 conducted controlled science doesn't really exist. 493 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,600 It's always the science has got to show something that will 494 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,560 benefit those who are seemingly now or absolutely controlling 495 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,400 medicine. You know, the industry has has 496 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,680 hijacked medicine. It's it's not an independent, 497 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,520 independent thing. It's funded in every way now. 498 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,720 So with viruses, you could say the real, the true meaning of 499 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,680 virus is poison. And I would say yes, if you've 500 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:30,000 got symptoms that that something shed in say a rash, you could 501 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,880 say, yeah, it's a rash of delivering the poison from out 502 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:41,240 inside the body to the outside. It's it's unbelievable. 503 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,120 The last well, with the COVID story just before I, I kind of 504 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,360 got the feeling something was going to kick off. 505 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,600 But it's incredible that they've used this word COVID. 506 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,480 It's almost like someone, you know, the World Health 507 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,000 Organisation, who or whoever will declare COVID. 508 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,040 It's the word, it's just a word, it's an umbrella term and they 509 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,639 can label anything as they did in the past with AIDS as well, 510 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,040 various symptoms that they could capture and, and put it under 511 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,400 the heading of COVID and a virus. 512 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,840 In my mind now, after all the years I've looked into it, it's 513 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,120 basically a little rubbish bag because when cells start 514 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,040 breaking down, the body's intelligence doesn't want 515 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,920 rubbish or floating around. So it captures it in little 516 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,080 rubbish sacks and then it expresses it. 517 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,719 And then those little rubbish sacks to my mind would be what 518 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,880 viruses are, what the medical world's call in virus. 519 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,159 They're not things that have come from the air. 520 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,800 They're not living even when they say live vaccine, live 521 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,120 virus, vaccine. Well, is the virus ever live? 522 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:03,360 No, it's just them got a few fragments of of DNA or whatever 523 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,280 it's it's broken down cellular rubbish and you just it's 524 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,000 captured. So I'm, I, I think with when 525 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,440 they talk about different strains, well, every single 526 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,920 person is going to have slightly different rubbish bags. 527 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,360 You know, it's like if we looked in our Rd we might have some 528 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,400 similar rubbish but other rubbish depending on what we 529 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,000 like to eat or whatever is going to be different and it's the 530 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,520 same with your body. So when they talk about all 531 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:36,120 these so called strains, so my mind is just, it's just 532 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:42,920 different people's different rub elimination processes, rubbish 533 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,720 coming from that person. Sorry, it's a bit I'm trying to 534 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,960 say in a really simplistic way actually. 535 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,720 Yes, well, I know. And I think you've done exactly 536 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,280 that. I think I think that's that's 537 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,800 very well put. And I think that what you've 538 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,360 articulated there is that first of all, people get ill. 539 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:01,680 They always have done, they always will. 540 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,640 Do your living conditions absolutely or your life 541 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,200 conditions have an impact on that and on the way in which you 542 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,280 will recover or if you recover? Indeed. 543 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,360 Now what I think you've brought out there, which I'd just like 544 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,320 to go one step further on, is this idea. 545 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,240 You know, terminology of course is so divisive because you say 546 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:25,520 the word virus and it will instantly mean one thing to one 547 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:26,960 person. It might mean something 548 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,440 completely different to somebody else. 549 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,880 What we haven't done yet is gone that step further in suggesting 550 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,760 that one person may make another person I'll. 551 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,960 And given what you've just been talking about, which makes so 552 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,840 much sense, it's, it's interesting that that element 553 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,640 needed to be introduced in the 1st place because, you know, 554 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,840 anyone could think anecdotally at the time that they got ill, 555 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,760 but nobody else around them was. So in a sense, the necessity to 556 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,640 try to convince people that they may, they may make each other 557 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,880 I'll is, is sort of unnecessary. Is it or isn't it? 558 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,240 I mean, I really, is this just a marketing ploy for an extra sort 559 00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:12,920 of string to the vaccine bow or, or how, you know, how should one 560 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,560 look at it historically? Well, with there were like right 561 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,200 back in the early 1900s, for instance, there were some 562 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,720 doctors and scientists trying to investigate flu around the time 563 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:31,120 of the so called Spanish flu and 1919. 564 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,080 And they actually wanted to understand the transmission mode 565 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,440 of flu. And after many, many experiments 566 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,560 and it's all published, people can look at it. 567 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,440 They've, they, they came to the conclusion after all the studies 568 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,360 and they were really intrusive experiments, meaning they were 569 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:56,560 put in the samples of, of, of mucus, et cetera, or swabs from 570 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,560 the throat or into the nasal passages and put in that 571 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,560 substance into healthy volunteers kind of thing. 572 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,040 And in all the ones they did, no one got sick. 573 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,280 And there was a book. Well, there is a book just in 574 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:21,000 recent years, Daniel Reuters, ROYTAS, can you, can you catch a 575 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,840 cold? And he went through many, many, 576 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,640 many scientific papers where they tried to conduct, where 577 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:34,760 they tried to give one person a cold or flu through all these 578 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,000 different experiments. And they, they didn't work. 579 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:42,080 So they said at the end of that first study, the one thing we 580 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,840 have learnt about this is that we don't understand the mode of 581 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,120 transmission. I mean, at least actually they 582 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,160 were more honest in those days. They would actually publish 583 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,360 things where they're actually saying, whoops, we actually, 584 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,720 this is strange. We don't know why this has 585 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:01,840 occurred, but slowly, slowly, it seems like the papers published 586 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,920 these days don't really tell you anything. 587 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,480 They just and most doctors don't wade through all the, the, the, 588 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,800 the method and the results and everything. 589 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,480 They might even not glance at the summary. 590 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,400 They might just glance at the headlines and and apart from the 591 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,440 fact that most doctors you know, they they're busy and stressed 592 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,480 and they don't spend time, I'm sure relaxing in the evening 593 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,880 reading medical journals. If they get a chance to relax, 594 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,560 they're not the healthiest bunch of people either. 595 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:44,680 A few when I was going up to the London School of Hygiene and 596 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,200 Tropical Health Diseases, they were, it was right near the 597 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,840 British Museum and I used to go there because there's no 598 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,240 Internet, so you couldn't go on online to find a study. 599 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,640 You had to go to a medical library and they let you in at 600 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,440 that time. They did stop lay people going 601 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,360 in after a period, but I used to go up there and when I was 602 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,040 looking at the mortality and charts, et cetera, and all the 603 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:10,480 different things that were causing. 604 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,400 Death. I came to some pages where it 605 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:20,000 was talking about alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide, and it 606 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,640 actually listed the professions who were high in that category. 607 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,800 And surprise, surprise, doctors featured heavily in all three of 608 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,880 those. So I used to sort of say tongue 609 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:38,040 in cheek, Well, why would you want to go and see anyone in 610 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000 that, you know, when they've got that kind of not, you know, 611 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,400 Anyway, yeah. No, no, exactly. 612 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,240 Well, look, I think that that takes us on to, you know, 613 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,480 subject area that we really can't ignore in this discussion, 614 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,840 which is what happened in 2020 and thereafter. 615 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,920 And I mean, of course, one of the great surprises to anybody 616 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,800 who stopped to give it a moment's thought was how little 617 00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,920 doctors do know about certain things. 618 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:04,600 One might argue about everything health is the the sort of word 619 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,480 you've used, but actually as part of their industry, they 620 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,520 almost universally knew absolutely nothing about 621 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:17,560 vaccinations, the history, the supposed efficacy, the harms and 622 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,000 all of that. Did you sort of see that effect 623 00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:27,200 take place as in people just realising, not exactly on mass 624 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,640 but certainly in numbers, that that these, these people, these 625 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,120 these supposed experts really were well out of their depth? 626 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:37,560 Well, yes, even before COVID, there were parents who were to 627 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,120 discuss vaccination with their doctors and they couldn't 628 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,040 believe how little the doctor knew. 629 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,520 And that was, you know, even in the 90s and into the first 630 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:55,240 decade of 2000. And I'm trying to, sometimes 631 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,920 when I've been on programmes in the past, I would be accused of, 632 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,520 oh, but you're not a doctor, you know, But I always quote 633 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:07,440 Professor Heidi Larsson because in 2018, or was it 9, No 19, 634 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,840 sorry, 2019. So it's just a little bit before 635 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,720 COVID kicked off, she actually said because she was presenting 636 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:23,560 about, you know, the lack of confidence in vaccination and 637 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:29,640 talking to these the audience, and she said that doctors are 638 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,000 lucky if they get more than half a day study on vaccination. 639 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,520 She said it. So, you know, I like to quote 640 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,200 these people because they're from the officialdom. 641 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,040 And she also said that there was growing concern amongst 642 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,200 frontline health professionals and that, you know, they will, 643 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,560 they, it was sounding like, what are we going to do? 644 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600 Because more and more people are questioning it, including our 645 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,920 own health professionals. So it's interesting that just a 646 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,440 few months later, suddenly we get told, oh, there's this virus 647 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,880 and it's, you know, we're all locking down and, and the, the 648 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,120 world changed overnight. And I think it they had to kick 649 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:18,320 in with something because there was a growing concern prior to 650 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:23,080 that and, and it, and they were very successful in many ways of 651 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,520 controlling people. And many people's lives changed 652 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,640 after that. And also, sadly, a lot of people 653 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:37,880 perished from over either over treatment or, you know, even 654 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,720 emotionally isolating people from their loved ones. 655 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,640 It was ghastly to watch and you know, but it did. 656 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,160 It did wake a lot of people up also. 657 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,160 So there's more now, isn't there? 658 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:58,080 I mean, I find everywhere I go, but I just something comes up in 659 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,280 the conversation and and people say, Oh, I know, you know. 660 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,240 Yes, I think on some, yeah, you're absolutely right. 661 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,560 I think on some level absolutely everybody knows that there was 662 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,160 something wrong, no matter how fervently they they felt like 663 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,160 they wanted to support the governments position to 664 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,520 apparently keep us safe. I think with, with the time 665 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,960 spent in either conscious or, or subconscious reflection, I, I 666 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,960 would absolutely agree with you, everybody will concede that that 667 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,960 there was something was not quite right about that. 668 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,600 And, and, and this is what I just just to go back to the 669 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,440 point of, of contagion, because I think what was so very obvious 670 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,720 about that period 2020, particularly the years 2023 to 671 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:44,480 at least 2022 was that had there been the spectre of illness, but 672 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,840 not one that was transmitted supposedly from person to 673 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,320 person, then there would have been no premise for stopping 674 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,000 people from congregating. And, and the effects that 675 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,600 exactly you're talking about now, interestingly, of course, 676 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,560 certainly in the United Kingdom, I think I'm right in saying 677 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:08,040 that, that none of the supposed vaccines that were put out had 678 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,800 claims made by the manufacturers that they would stop 679 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,360 transmission. It was only the government that 680 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,440 decided that that's what they would say about it, which of 681 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,240 course was then parroted by the media. 682 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,440 Am I correct on that? Well, they came out with so many 683 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,280 things. Yeah. 684 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,840 I mean, I don't know when they say about transmission. 685 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,960 I'll give you an example. It's very recent, but it was on 686 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,600 measles. They say all kind of things from 687 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,880 the health department. And in one particular letter 688 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,960 that went out to parents for measles when there was a so 689 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,520 called rise in cases in recent years, they said that you could 690 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,640 for transmission, you only need to be near another person with 691 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,960 measles for 15 minutes and then you could develop it. 692 00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:59,600 So I thought, oh, where did they get that from? 693 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,000 So I started corresponding. In fact, I, I wrote it into an 694 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,600 article for the newsletter back and forth. 695 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,040 And they all follow each other, you know. 696 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,560 So this local authority said, oh, we got it from the 697 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,440 government, such and such like, write to them. 698 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,160 They sent you all these studies. None of them showed this 15 699 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,360 minute transmission. And then they try to sort of 700 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,560 say, oh, you need to go to that person and that person and that. 701 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,840 You go round in circles and in the end you discover there's no 702 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,880 paper that shows that. And the only one they kind of 703 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,720 ended I ended up with wasn't even a study. 704 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,040 It was a polling it if that's what they use. 705 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,400 And it didn't mention 15 minutes anyway. 706 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,600 So it's the same with all this. I think the the main thing, it 707 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,480 wasn't about transmission. It was about keeping everyone 708 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,320 separate. Because if you're separate, you 709 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,880 can't easily congregate and have a conversation and maybe you'll 710 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,000 actually learn something from the other person. 711 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,640 They wanted to just keep us all away from each other 712 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,920 psychologically. You know, I mean, I never wore a 713 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,760 mask. And but, you know, it's, it's 714 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,680 creepy actually walking through a town when everyone's masked up 715 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,760 and, you know, it's people are kind of nervous to be anywhere 716 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,240 near you. They created, I mean, they did a 717 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:23,000 good job of terrifying a good chunk of the population. 718 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:30,480 But all these things one says this one says that they change 719 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,280 their tune the next minute. You know, they're always moving 720 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,080 the goal posts one minute because even with vaccination 721 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,400 originally, we're going to eradicate measles in 1980, you 722 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,720 know, and then it's slowly, well, actually we're not, we're 723 00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:47,800 just trying to lower the numbers and we're like this and that. 724 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,440 I mean, measles, for instance, is a, is a childhood acute that 725 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,200 helps the maturation process as we're growing, you know, and in 726 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,160 the early years of your life and you develop mentally and 727 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,440 physically. And it's interesting that with 728 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,640 things like suppressing these kind of conditions, what we seem 729 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,240 to have now evolved into a population of a lot of young 730 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:19,160 children who aren't developing properly, especially mentally 731 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,120 now. It's terrifying. 732 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,640 And people want to read more about the effects of vaccination 733 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,360 even on just the brain. There's, you know, a book from 734 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:37,600 the 80s, Harris Coulter, The Medical Vaccination, the assault 735 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,960 on the, I think it says American brain, but it would be anyone's 736 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,960 brain wherever you live. But you know, I've got lots of 737 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,280 reading lists and etcetera on my site website and you know. 738 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,320 Yeah, Yeah. Well, let's come to that in in 739 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,600 just a second. But I think one thing I would 740 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,760 just like to talk about, because as you say, the goal posts kept 741 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,480 changing. I mean, in that period in, in 742 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,480 recent times, it was so very obvious that it was absolutely 743 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,240 nothing to do with health and that there was a desperation to 744 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,840 sell this drug untrialed. And of course, the narrative 745 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,640 even on that change, which is why I asked about the 746 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,520 manufacturer's claims, because the government, of course, was 747 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,000 then forced to back down and say that, well, you know, we never 748 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,520 really said that it would stop transmission. 749 00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,200 But anyway, you should still take it because it will stop you 750 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,680 from going to hospital, you know, calling into question the 751 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,720 entire premise for the, for the thing in the 1st place. 752 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:33,320 And this idea that that some benefit could be derived as 753 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,120 though, you know, you would be better off taking thing rather 754 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,160 than just not having anything. I mean, the the logic was quite 755 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,680 baffling. What I wanted to ask was, was 756 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,680 given the extraordinary wealth of sort of published literature 757 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,560 on the harms that are caused and have been caused by vaccines, 758 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,480 but not just vaccines, pharmaceutical products as a 759 00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:00,560 whole, How how is it that public confidence in this very 760 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,240 obviously ruthless profit seeking multi billion pound 761 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:08,960 industry is so high? What do you put that down to? 762 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,080 Well, I mean, the vaccination is, is, is separate from like 763 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,720 other medicines because it, it was just pushed always this idea 764 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:20,320 of germs causing disease. So we're going, it wasn't a 765 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,760 medicine as such. It was like, look, you're if 766 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,800 you're healthy, we're going to keep you healthy by So, you 767 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:31,920 know, it's such a strong belief system, but it's hard to let go 768 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:33,720 of it. Actually, even when you start to 769 00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:37,000 study it, you, you, you kind of when I first started to question 770 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,080 germ theory, which was in the 1990s, I was thinking no one 771 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,720 else is kind of, you know, I couldn't see any other 772 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:48,600 literature about it at the time. And you know, it's hard to undo 773 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,760 all the even the terminology. For instance, you know, when I 774 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,120 hear people saying about immune system and immunity, I mean, 775 00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,120 these words all come their terminology from the germ 776 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,720 theory. What do you need to be immune 777 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:06,920 to? And I mean immune if if people 778 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,760 sell my immune system's down, well, that's your whole body. 779 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,320 You don't have these separate little areas. 780 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,840 Oh, that my immune system's great. 781 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,120 But my brain's suffering or whatever. 782 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:23,120 You know, it's crazy talk. And I always refer now if I hear 783 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,480 the word immune immunity, I just call it health. 784 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,520 It's our whole body, our health system and we don't need to be 785 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,160 immune to these so called germs or viruses if they're not the 786 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,960 course, which I thoroughly believe they aren't. 787 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,200 And and well, as I said, viruses haven't even actually been 788 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,200 isolated, purified, characterised and even shown to 789 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,280 produce disease in another and and or contagious etcetera. 790 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,640 So, you know, it's hard to let go of all this stuff we've been 791 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,160 indoctrinated with, even even when you're reading it, you have 792 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,360 to, you get to points where you're still using some 793 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,320 terminology or description when you're talking and you think, 794 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,560 oh, hang on, no, actually, that's not even right. 795 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,880 You know, So, and it's harder for doctors to do that than say 796 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,400 someone like me who's apparently a layperson. 797 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:25,400 And you know, we, they've been so much more indoctrinated with 798 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,400 these things and it's their life. 799 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,000 They might be, have been practising for so many years and 800 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,520 to let go of it and actually realise and, and take a 801 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,600 different path is so hard for them. 802 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,720 Well. That's a really interesting 803 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:43,560 point and indoctrination. I'm just wondering whether 804 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:47,000 there's a clash or a sort of dividing line, because let's 805 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,120 say, let's take for example, the so called defence industry, 806 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,400 where anyone working in that industry absolutely knows that 807 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,840 the products they're making are going to result in the deaths of 808 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,440 other people. And they and they, you know, 809 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,360 they must have had to have squared that with themselves in 810 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,040 order to conduct that work. Now, if you're supposedly 811 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,440 working for the health industry in some capacity, whether it be 812 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,080 at the pharmaceutical end of it or the sort of delivery end, as 813 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,880 a as a medic, you are in a position where you are saying to 814 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,240 people that you're doing something to either enhance 815 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,120 their health or prolong their life. 816 00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,440 When in actual fact, there are very many people, particularly 817 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,280 at the pharmaceutical entity and WHO, who know perfectly well 818 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:34,040 that what they're doing has a, has a, a body count attached to 819 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,960 it. Now, the obvious explanation for 820 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,240 that is, is psychopathy. Otherwise, how else would you be 821 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,680 able to do it? And, and given that that extends 822 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,760 into, you know, the, the, the sort of senior medical 823 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,520 fraternity, do you, do you think there is a, a sort of a point at 824 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:56,000 which that leeches over into indoctrination or rubs up 825 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,880 against him? And how, how do you consider the 826 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,680 the sort of state of mind of the people who are in that position 827 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,880 and absolutely know about it? Well, yes, I don't know how some 828 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:10,480 of those sleep at night. I think the doctors generally in 829 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,280 my observation, although I don't see them very often myself, 830 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,560 Well, not at all for myself really, I should say, But other 831 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:23,520 people when I, I think there's a disconnect that when doctors 832 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:29,240 train even because if they became too attached to every 833 00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:32,840 patient, they probably wouldn't survive long emotionally. 834 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,440 So my observation with a lot of things is that they, they have 835 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,240 got this disconnect. They've just heads down, we do 836 00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:44,240 this, this is what we give you, blah, blah, blah, and they don't 837 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,600 that's it. They're very close minded. 838 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,000 It's very unlikely that any of them, even if you question or 839 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,000 try to discuss with doctors anything, they don't really want 840 00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,760 to disturb their lives because if they had to suddenly look and 841 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,640 think, actually, I've just noticed so many have had this 842 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:07,560 that and the other since they had that drug or where does it 843 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,720 leave them? You see, they have no job then. 844 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:13,720 And unfortunately, you know, they they, it is about money and 845 00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:15,520 prestige. In fact, even back in the 846 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:20,200 history of Martin, Dr was saying money and prestige prevent this 847 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:26,360 to be investigated, you know, so but yeah, it does. 848 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,880 Certain people like you say when they're working with the 849 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,640 products and know that it can cause various things. 850 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,440 You wonder how they sleep at night. 851 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,560 I mean, one thing they don't do, they're always on about gold 852 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,640 standard studies for drugs. But when it comes to vaccines, 853 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,640 when you years back, I had to write, obviously not email write 854 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,160 to all these drug companies asking for all their controlled 855 00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,640 trials where they were comparing unvaccinated with vaccinated. 856 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,760 And of course, most of them just did well, they either don't 857 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,200 answer or they just say, oh, sorry, we haven't got any. 858 00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:09,240 But the one famous one that they did for BCG, for tuberculosis 859 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:15,680 back in the 1968 in India, they did a huge field trial. 860 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,400 And because prior to that there'd been so many differing 861 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,720 results in other little studies where they said we can't say if 862 00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:29,560 this vaccine is effective or not and it was causing problems. 863 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:33,880 Even so they did this large field trial and the result was 864 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,120 so shocking to them. They took 12 years to publish 865 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:38,960 it. And it went in The Lancet in 866 00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:43,240 1980 eventually. And they bad news from India. 867 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,520 And they said that the group that received, and it was 868 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,840 thousands and thousands, the group that received the BCG 869 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:56,760 vaccine had more tuberculosis in that group than the so called 870 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,080 placebo who only got saline solution. 871 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:03,080 And what did they learn from that? 872 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,360 They didn't say that's strange, let's do it again and see if 873 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,720 we've made a mistake. They just ignored it and carried 874 00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:14,240 on promoting the BCG and it was less than nought percent 875 00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:15,000 effective. Yeah. 876 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,280 It's incredible. It's hard. 877 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,680 When I say these things, sometimes I think people must 878 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:25,040 say I'm just making it up. It's unbelievable, everything I 879 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,560 turn to, well, even now, but even my first decade of 880 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,920 studying, I couldn't believe what I was reading. 881 00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,360 It does exist, this this material and it is solid 882 00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,920 information. It's not been tampered with. 883 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,800 It's it's the historical background, but no one, no one 884 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,280 reads it in the medical world. They're just trained do this do 885 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,320 that. You get bonuses if you give so 886 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:56,080 many vaccines or whatever at your surgery and and it carries 887 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,120 on, doesn't it? Yeah, it does now. 888 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,320 I mean the same modus operandi across the board. 889 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,520 It just keeps railing, railing it, it it's completely 890 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,600 astonishing. I think astonishing also is the, 891 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,960 the body of evidence that you have sort of brought together 892 00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,640 over the the years and this amazing thing, you know, it is 893 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,480 this autumn, it will be 35 years since you first sort of started 894 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,840 thinking about, about this, which is an incredible record. 895 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,120 I think my my question about the informed parent, which clearly 896 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,960 provides an amazing service and as you say, is not dictating. 897 00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,200 It's, it's putting the information out in order that 898 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,360 people are made able to make an informed choice. 899 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,560 But I mean, you know, there's obviously a difficult question 900 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:38,400 to answer, but how do you regard the impact that the form parent 901 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:44,760 has made over the years? Well I I've always for every 902 00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,000 person that's subscribed, even they've got families and 903 00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,640 friends. And so I know over the years 904 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:56,960 thousands and thousands have learnt or investigated. 905 00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:03,600 I've had lovely letters over the years thanking me for helping 906 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,040 them, Well, not helping them, but just giving them some 907 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,960 information which they might not have come across. 908 00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,640 Because, you know, when you're a busy mum particularly, you can't 909 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,160 start investigation things. And so I, all I was doing was 910 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,240 bringing, I was just doing it for them and then putting it in 911 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,320 a newsletter so they could, they could read it for themselves. 912 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:29,280 So I, I do feel it's, it's been part of the growing awareness 913 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,240 because it's just, you know, when, like you say, when you 914 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,960 throw a Pebble into the, the lake and it spreads and spreads, 915 00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,360 yes. And I've met so many interesting 916 00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:47,480 people over the years, learnt so much and I still keep learning. 917 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,560 I, I don't think people should ever think they know everything 918 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,600 about, Oh, I know this subject now. 919 00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,120 There's always something that crops up and you think, hang on, 920 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,240 how does that work? And I think thinking is is an 921 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,200 important subject and it should it's not taught in school 922 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,240 anymore. Well, schools are dangerous 923 01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,840 place in my opinion now, especially now. 924 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,440 I mean, when I was at school, I think it was reasonable. 925 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,000 I was I just, I just missed the 60s. 926 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:22,760 So born in 1959, but we had the education service system wasn't 927 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,200 wasn't too indoctrinated then and. 928 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:32,040 Nowadays thinking's you know, not, not allowed almost you 929 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,240 learn this parrot fashion and that's it. 930 01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,600 And children will come home and say, but the teacher said this 931 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:40,000 and blah blah, blah. So and they're even teaching 932 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,200 them now that parents you might have sort of what do they call 933 01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,520 them? Oh, I can't remember the term 934 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,600 they use now. Your, your radical parents or 935 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,800 your Oh dear. Some of you, unfortunately have 936 01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,160 got radical parents and they believe and they say this and 937 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,080 that. And you must know that this is 938 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:03,840 they're, they're creating a, a barrier now between even the 939 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,040 child and the, the parent. And, and in recent years they 940 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,320 were paper. I remember a paper saying 941 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:12,800 something about parents are a barrier to getting all the 942 01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,200 children vaccinated. You know what, parents love 943 01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,880 their children, they want the best for them and they're seeing 944 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,000 them as a nuisance. Now let's move them out of the 945 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,240 way. Children have the right to 946 01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,000 insist on. I want to be vaccinated, mum. 947 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,920 I'm only 5 but I know it's fantastic and it's going to make 948 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:37,240 me healthy. They're being indoctrinated so 949 01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,000 young now. Yeah, I do. 950 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,200 I think, sorry, I'm going to say, you know, with all the 951 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,680 people, not just me and the informed parent, there's been 952 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,720 different people around, around the world doing similar things 953 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,840 or writing books or whatever over the last 100 years. 954 01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:01,200 And they've all but, you know, all between us all. 955 01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,480 It has kept a conversation going. 956 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,480 And I think now the conversation is growing as well. 957 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,880 Well, that's terrific. And, and, and just on that note, 958 01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,640 I mean, first of all, I think you're absolutely right. 959 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,560 You know, the, the suggestion that we're all extremists and 960 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:22,040 that the answer is, is division is, is really dire and, and very 961 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,480 cynical. But, but with that in mind, and 962 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,920 given how hard the, the this idea has been pushed that, you 963 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,920 know, you can't talk about it. What's your advice in how to 964 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,120 start the conversation about this? 965 01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,880 Just as we round off, I mean, how you know it is such a 966 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,000 sensitive topic? How does one open up that 967 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,880 subject well? I mean, I haven't had too many 968 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:51,840 situations where someone's become hostile, but if anyone 969 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,600 shows a strong opinion about vaccination, that's saying how 970 01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,280 wonderful it is. I, I just say, oh, I'm really 971 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,680 interested. What, what evidence and what 972 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,960 research did you do to come arrive at that? 973 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,320 You know, it's the same with even the COVID. 974 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,400 I've said that a few times. Why do you have such a strong 975 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,880 opinion? And they just look blankly and 976 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,080 it changes everything then because they realise they 977 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:22,480 haven't got any sort of background knowledge on the 978 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:27,720 subject at all, you know, and there's a silence. 979 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,840 And usually they don't change the subject. 980 01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:34,160 But if you, if you, if they're open and say, well, tell me more 981 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,120 than yes, you can. And it's like when I ever say to 982 01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,920 people, I say, don't actually listen to me or just read 983 01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:44,040 something and believe it. Go and check it out. 984 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,080 You know, that's I'm only here to get encourage you to think 985 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,640 and read and learn and come to your own conclusion. 986 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,800 I don't if your conclusion is different to mine, that's fine. 987 01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,240 You know, as long as I'm allowed to make my own decisions in 988 01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,520 life. And I know that's I only, my 989 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,960 only regret is that I didn't study it before. 990 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:10,480 And you know, I know many parents whose children were 991 01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:14,440 severely damaged after a vaccination or even died. 992 01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,600 And it's, it's heartbreaking and, and it happens a lot more 993 01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,360 than people think. And you know, the more people 994 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,560 that study it, I think we, we could have a much healthier 995 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,480 future. It's not all doom and gloom and 996 01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,760 nothing setting concrete as I, I try to stay optimistic about 997 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,720 things. There's a lot of dark forces out 998 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,960 there, but you know, there's a lot of light forces as well. 999 01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:42,960 So who knows but. Good. 1000 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:44,640 Now go. I think that's a, that's a 1001 01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,880 terrific note to to end on. And indeed your philosophy about 1002 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,600 just being able to do what you want to do or to have the 1003 01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:53,200 freedom to do that I think is absolutely right. 1004 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,920 What I would like you to do, although I will be writing this 1005 01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,960 down in the notes below the interview, but please just give 1006 01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,440 the details of the informed parent website. 1007 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:07,080 OK, well it's informed parent.co.uk and you can also 1008 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,480 contact me via that and you'll see the art is an archive. 1009 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,800 Archive library with the newsletters. 1010 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:19,240 As I said, I just finished doing the final annual subscriptions, 1011 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:23,080 but who knows, you know, things might change and I'll find a 1012 01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,440 different way of getting information out. 1013 01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:29,240 But yeah, I'm very happy for people to contact me. 1014 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,000 Good Magda Taylor, thank you very much indeed for joining me 1015 01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,920 on UK column. Thank you, Charles.