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Good afternoon. 
It's Wednesday the 20th of 

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January just after 1:00. 
Welcome to UK column news. 

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I'm your host Mike Robinson. 
Joining me in the studios today 

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is Co host Charles Mallett. 
Welcome to the program, Charles.

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Thank you. 
Bye. 

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And by video link. 
We are joined by Vanessa Bailey.

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Now later in the programme, 
we'll be looking at the latest 

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censorship of efforts by Ofcom 
and their international 

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colleagues, child abuse in 
Israel and the reform of 

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policing. 
But we're going to begin today 

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with digital government. 
Now people across the UK could 

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benefit from faster, safer and 
more reliable public services as

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leading British AI specialist. 
Join government to modernise 

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critical systems used everyday. 
From public safety to transport 

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maintenance. 
These are the words of Keir 

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Starmer's Digital minister Ian 
Murray. 

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So I'm sure we were all 
impressed by that. 

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But anyway, the effort is going 
to be underpinned by £1,000,000 

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from Meta and will be run 
through the Alan Turing 

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Institute. 
And the group of AI experts are 

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going to develop open source 
tools to what they describe as 

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tackle some of the biggest 
challenges facing public 

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services. 
Now this all comes part of the 

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new customer. 
Oh, sorry, I didn't show the 

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Alan Turing Institute there, but
there we go. 

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And this all comes as part of 
the new customer first 

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initiative. 
And customer first, by the way, 

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spelled as one word, you know, 
without any gaps between 

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customer and 1st. 
And that's going to put modern 

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technology to work to cut out 
long phone queues, reduce 

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paperwork, and make it easier 
and faster for people to access 

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the services they rely on. 
These are all their words. 

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It's fantastic propaganda. 
But anyway, right there with the

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with that quote, we get an idea 
of what this is actually about. 

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Because as we all know, the long
wait times on phones when people

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want to access the likes of HMRC
or any other so-called customer 

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facing service provided by the 
state are a deliberate ploy to 

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force people to accept the 
digital panopticon that Shabana 

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Mahmoud is so keen on. 
So let's just remind ourselves 

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what she said when she was 
speaking to Tony Blair a short 

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while ago. 
AI and technology can be 

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transformative to the whole law 
and order space. 

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And she was was talking about 
the need to use AI and 

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technology to transform the 
justice system. 

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She cited Jeremy Bentham and his
panoptic. 

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And now we're going to come on 
to what that is in a second. 

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If anybody doesn't know. 
And she was absolutely talking 

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about the idea of pre crime and 
using AI to to make judgments 

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and what people were going to do
in the future. 

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But coming back to customer 
first for a second, it describes

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itself as a new unit within the 
government digital service and 

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very much echoing Dominic 
Cummings of a few years ago. 

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They say they've been set up to 
explore a fresh way of working 

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in government and operating with
the pace and some curiosity of a

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start up. 
This is Dominic Cummings kind of

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of language. 
And they said that their work 

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aligns directly with the road 
map for modern digital 

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government, which has just been 
published. 

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And once again we see statements
from public, from politicians 

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delivered with not a hint of 
irony because this is the 

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comment from the Secretary of 
State for Science, Innovation 

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and Technology, Liz Kendall, 
saying when we came into 

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government, the Prime Minister 
made a commitment to the British

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people that politics would tread
lightly on people's lives. 

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So I'm just going to ask, do you
all feel lightly trodden on 

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because I don't now. 
She went on to describe all the 

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benefits of the new panopticon 
for the sleep deprived parent 

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trying to sort childcare, the 
homeowner getting planning 

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permission, the worried patient 
looking for doc, booking a 

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doctor's appointment. 
She said that life is busy and 

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our role as a government should 
be to carry the burden in these 

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moments, not add to it. 
And so this plan sets out how we

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do this by embracing AI, 
removing our dated IT, and 

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strengthening our cyber 
resilience in the face of new 

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threats. 
So let's just have a look at 

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what this brave new world has in
store for you and for me. 

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So they're talking about 
managing health records, 

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appointments and prescriptions 
in one place through the NHS 

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app. 
They're talking about using the 

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gov.uk app to access 
personalized services and 

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notifications. 
Securely store and share digital

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versions of important documents 
like your driving license. 

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Using the gov.uk wallet. 
Quickly and securely proving 

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your identity using the new 
digital ID. 

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Accessing simpler, faster 
digital services for tax, 

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driving vehicle and immigration.
Using a new career service. 

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Bringing the support you need 
together to understand your 

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skills and use them to find or 
change jobs, but also benefit 

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from target targeted support to 
improve digital skills and 

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confidence and address data and 
device poverty. 

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This is incredible stuff. 
Access better care for children 

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because data will be joined up 
across services. 

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And if you're in business, it's 
good for you too. 

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As anybody that's already in 
business knows, you've had to 

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identify yourself to Companies 
House for example. 

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But this will mean that you can 
access government services with 

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a single secure login for 
businesses. 

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Now we've discussed one login 
before and how it's not in the 

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least bit secure, but we can 
talk about that later. 

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Manage and tax and customs 
obligations through a modern 

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digital first system. 
Sell technology and services to 

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government through simplified 
procurement processes. 

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Find talent faster using smarter
candidate matching tools. 

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Quickly and securely verify your
employees right to work through 

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a secure process. 
So, you know, we at the UK 

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column are warning about these 
kinds of things. 

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We have also been warning, as we
did last week, about Palantir 

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and their complete access to NHS
patient data. 

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And when the Electronic Frontier
Foundation are warning about ICE

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agents in the US using 
Palantir's health access to US 

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health data to run their 
operations, then we might ask 

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ourselves what the Starmer 
regime is building here. 

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Just what exactly is it? 
So let's just finish this by 

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reminding ourselves what the 
Panopticon is. 

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It's the idea proposed by the 
so-called philosopher Jeremy 

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Bentham in 1791 of a theoretical
circular prison design allowing 

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a single central observer to 
watch all inmates without being 

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seen, based on the central 
inspection principle. 

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And it aims to reform behaviour 
through constant surveillance 

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and the psychological and the 
psychological internalized 

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feeling of being watched. 
That he described it as power of

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mind over mind. 
So we're talking about a 

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cylindrical building with a 
central inspectors, large and 

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outer cells with light passing 
through so that there's 

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backlighting so that the entire 
prison population, as I say, 

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could be watched by a single 
guard. 

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Now he'd Bentham designed this 
for prisons, but he also 

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intended it for schools, for 
factories, for asylums. 

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He as he talked about it and he 
was talking about maximizing 

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utility, productivity and order.
And this is clearly now, this is

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clearly now what is being built,
what Mahmoud is talking about 

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being absolutely desirous of. 
And so this goes way beyond just

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simple digital ID. 
It absolutely does. 

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And for a road map, it really is
attempting to join everything 

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together. 
And I think really the way that 

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this should be looked at is 
through the lens of considering 

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why it is that they only suggest
that there will be positive 

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outcomes. 
There is absolutely no 

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suggestion that this is a 
balance or a trade off, that 

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there could be any downsides. 
And I think that that should 

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really raise a, a red flag to 
anybody hearing about this. 

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The the idea that changing 
something wholesale is not going

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to have any undesirable 
consequence is an absolutely 

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extraordinary and therefore 
completely unlikely outcome. 

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I think that that that's a big 
part of it. 

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There's there's no concession at
all to the inherent 

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vulnerability of putting 
everything in the same place. 

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I think the, the idea that that 
setting this out and using the 

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sorts of language, as you say, 
that Dominic Cummings might have

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been proud to have put together 
is just disingenuous beyond 

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compare because there are 
example upon example of systems 

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like this failing. 
And I think that, you know, the 

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the greater the, the 
centralisation, the greater the 

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danger if there is a failure. 
And I think that's one of the 

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things I mean among many that 
that absolutely are not being 

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talked about and presumably will
not get talked about unless this

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is raised as an issue at the at 
the local levels and is pushed 

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effectively pushed back uphill 
because there, there there is no

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real debate or discussion about 
this I think. 

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I mean, we're going to be 
talking about China towards the 

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end of the program. 
And of course what we're 

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constantly seeing is people 
looking at China and and making 

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claims about social credit 
systems and so on and worrying 

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about what's going on over 
there. 

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No concern generally about 
because they can't believe that 

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this would be the type of 
infrastructure that's being 

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built here, but it absolutely 
is. 

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So, you know, we've got to, 
we've got to be aware of what's 

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going on in our own country and 
many people are, but but 

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limiting it just to digital ID 
is, is not going far enough. 

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Vanessa, I'd be interested to to
get an idea of what kind of 

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experience people in the Middle 
East are having of this type of 

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policy Is is there or are there 
attempts in in Southwest Asia to

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bring this type of thing in? 
Well, obviously apart from 

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inside Israeli prisons where of 
course there is a huge degree of

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surveillance and dehumanisation.
I'm not sure. 

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I mean here, definitely not. 
We might have just got biometric

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in some of the passport offices.
Some, generally it doesn't work 

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very well. 
UAE, of course, is has just 

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joined Pax Silica, which is the 
complex of all of the countries 

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involved in basically 
introducing AI, digital control 

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in the future, which has very 
much Israel at its centre. 

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So I would say in the Zionist 
block in the countries that were

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created by Britain to support 
Israel, for example, like Saudi 

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Arabia, but particularly UAE, 
you might be finding it. 

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Yeah, but not to this level, no.
Okay, thank you for that. 

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But of course related to this 
then Charles is policing because

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obviously my mood was very clear
that that one of the major 

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applications of this would be 
the idea of pre crime and and 

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getting the police 100% on 
board. 

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What What are what is the 
Starmer's vision for policing in

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the UK then? 
Well, this is exactly it and and

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I should say if you didn't watch
Monday's UK column news then you

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should of course, because Ben 
Rubin was articulating initial 

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thoughts on the idea of police 
reform because of course at that

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stage no documentation had 
actually been produced. 

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It has now been produced and 
Shabana Mahmood, the Home 

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Secretary, has had quite a lot 
to say about it. 

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Here she is tweeting that 
today's reforms mark the biggest

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shake up to policing in 200 
years. 

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So what she's doing there in 
terms of setting the scene is 

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trying to invoke the spirit of 
Peel, who is credited, of 

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course, with starting the the 
idea of a sort of formalised 

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police force in the 1st place. 
Now I would put it that she has 

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not really read around the 
subject and to qualify that I 

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would just make the point first 
of all, that in her introduction

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to the document, she talks about
the suggestion that the police 

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is broken, but then counters 
that by saying that arrests are 

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up by 5%. 
And I think this articulates 

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the, the, the very centre of the
problem. 

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And we'll just look at the first
of the Pelian principles in 

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order to get an idea of what I 
mean by that. 

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Now the the first one is that 
the basic mission for which the 

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police exists is to prevent 
crime and disorder. 

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Now arrests are not by nature 
preventative, although as Mike's

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just been alluding to, we will 
watch this space. 

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So. 
So the fundamental issue appears

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to be that Shabana Mahmood and 
and others are confusing the 

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solving of crime with stopping 
crime. 

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And they are two very, very 
different things. 

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Now to, to move on from what it 
was set out by Peel all those 

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years ago, we'll, we'll look at 
the, the document itself and, 

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and just put a few things out 
from the executive summary and 

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indeed her opening remarks. 
And straight back to what Mike's

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been talking about, really 
serious and organised crime is 

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growing and nine in every 10 
crimes now has a digital 

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component. 
Now that's a very significant 

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point to make when one is 
suggesting that the answer to 

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that is further and further 
digitised. 

230
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,880
They they go on to say and and 
I've pulled out just sort of 

231
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,280
selective parts that I think are
all merit some consideration. 

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00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,760
We will modernise legislation 
such as the Public Order Act 

233
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,640
1986 to ensure that the police 
are clearer about where the line

234
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,200
stands between freedom of speech
and criminality. 

235
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:55,680
Now we've seen that that line 
absolutely blurred and let's say

236
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,400
very much not likely trodden 
over the last few years. 

237
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,520
What is it exactly they mean by 
this? 

238
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,120
Of course the Public Order Act 
1986 has the the more obvious 

239
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,320
offences or or at least perhaps 
clearer offences of riot, 

240
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,400
violence, disorder and a fray. 
But the controversial ones being

241
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,640
fear or provocation of violence 
and the harassment offences, but

242
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,080
effectively turning the offence 
itself into a subjective affair 

243
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,520
because of course it's for the 
victim to report how they felt 

244
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,920
about the particular incident in
question. 

245
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,880
Now with further digitisation, 
it's hard to see how this is 

246
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,240
going to turn out any better for
either apparent victims or 

247
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:37,640
suspects in those situations. 
Now the document goes on to talk

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00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,720
about rolling out artificial 
intelligence, AI powered tools 

249
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,960
and software to automate manual 
processes, saving the police 

250
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,360
valuable time so that it can be 
redirected towards serving the 

251
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,800
public. 
Again, to suggest that that is 

252
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,800
simply a fait accompli because 
you can say that it will save 

253
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,880
time and therefore there will be
an outright benefit is a claim 

254
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,040
that requires again much further
investigation. 

255
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,280
This is absolutely the the theme
of the document and and very 

256
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,200
much follows Mike's report about
putting out these totally 

257
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,480
unqualified positives that seem 
to have veered so far away from 

258
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,840
from the the status quo. 
It's to be very, very 

259
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,320
questionable also in terms of 
the the control structures. 

260
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,360
And this is what Ben was 
surmising on on Monday. 

261
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,400
The police and crime 
commissioners will be abolished 

262
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,840
and they'll be replaced directly
with, sorry, with directly 

263
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,040
elected mayors and where mayors 
do not yet exist, with policing 

264
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,000
and crime boards made-up of 
local council leaders. 

265
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,240
And this is said that the new 
system of police governments 

266
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,560
will reintegrate policing back 
into the system of local 

267
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,960
government in England, Wales, 
enabling greater collaboration 

268
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,400
across local services. 
Now again, if one assumes good 

269
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,160
faith, that could in some ways 
be the case. 

270
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,400
However, just to qualify it a 
bit to reintegrate back into 

271
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,200
local politics, it cannot really
be what it sounds like. 

272
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,200
Because of course, as Ben was 
intimating on Monday, partly 

273
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400
this is because the nature of 
local politics has changed such 

274
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,440
an enormous amount in the 
intervening period. 

275
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,480
But also because of the 
capabilities in data collection 

276
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,200
and sharing between all the 
various agencies that will be 

277
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,880
involved in this. 
And of course the the many, many

278
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,160
digital compromises and 
vulnerabilities that are 

279
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,440
inherent in in doing any of 
that. 

280
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:35,840
And we return to the Pelian 
principles because we look at 

281
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,480
this one which says police seek 
and preserve public favour not 

282
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,040
by catering to the public 
opinion, but by constantly 

283
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,320
demonstrating absolute impartial
service to the law. 

284
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,160
Now involving police hierarchy 
with local politicians, given 

285
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,880
the state of affairs in local 
politics, local democracy, if, 

286
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,200
if we can still call it that 
nowadays, I would say again, is 

287
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,840
another significant compromise. 
Now, of course, this document 

288
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,040
has come out, it's making great 
claims to turn the police over 

289
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,160
in in a productive sense for 
more than they have been in 200 

290
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,200
years. 
Therefore, there's been 

291
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,040
inevitable sort of commentary 
and response to this. 

292
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,480
As far as police bodies are 
concerned. 

293
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,040
There's been almost universal 
applause for the reforms as 

294
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,520
they're set out, with the 
exception of the Association of 

295
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,319
Police and Crime Commissioners. 
Now, given that I've just read 

296
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,520
out texts saying they're going 
to be abolished, it would be 

297
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,800
easy to say that that's sour 
grapes. 

298
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,160
But in fact, I think we should 
look at the point they make, 

299
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,160
which is there is also a risk 
the National Police Service 

300
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,680
could stifle local innovation 
and restrict the ability of 

301
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,720
local communities to shape how 
policing effects their lives. 

302
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,240
And large regional forces risk 
weakening local responsiveness 

303
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,240
and accountability while 
introducing unnecessary 

304
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,440
complexity and cost. 
I should have said that the 

305
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,560
which I'll come on to in a bit, 
but the one of the solutions to 

306
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,360
the problem is the idea of the 
National Police Service, which 

307
00:17:57,360 --> 00:17:59,840
again and was talking about on 
Monday, referring to it as a 

308
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,760
sort of rehashed version of the 
FBI. 

309
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:10,080
Now we're going to look at, or 
rather listen to what it was 

310
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:15,320
that Shabana Mahmoud said in the
House of Commons about one of 

311
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,800
the points that is bound to 
provoke, well, should certainly 

312
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,760
provoke a fair degree more 
debate. 

313
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,560
While some forces surge ahead 
with the results to show for it,

314
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,760
others are fighting crime in a 
digital age with analogue 

315
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,000
methods. 
We will ensure that every force 

316
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,200
is adopting the latest 
technology LED out of the new 

317
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,680
National Police Service. 
This will include the largest 

318
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,680
ever roll out of live facial 
recognition technologies across 

319
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,520
England and Wales. 
We know this approach works in 

320
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,240
London. 
In just two years, the 

321
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,800
Metropolitan Police have made 
1700 arrests, taking robbers, 

322
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,320
domestic abusers and rapists off
our streets. 

323
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,040
When the future arrives, there 
are always doubters. 100 years 

324
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,760
ago, fingerprinting was decried 
as curtailing our civil 

325
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,480
liberties, but today we could 
not imagine policing without it.

326
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,720
I have no doubt the same will 
prove true of facial recognition

327
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,440
technology in the years to come.
At the same time, we will launch

328
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:26,480
Police dot AI investing a record
£115,000,000 in AI and 

329
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,360
automation to make policing more
effective and efficient, 

330
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,560
stripping admin away to ensure 
officer time can be devoted to 

331
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,480
the human factor that only a 
police officer. 

332
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,920
So as far as she's concerned, 
job done, we've got computers, 

333
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,480
they can do it, we can all step 
back and and that's that. 

334
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,120
Now I, I think it's not quite 
that simple. 

335
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,640
And and certainly in terms of 
the symmetry or indeed 

336
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,160
asymmetry, she's suggesting that
the answer to a digital threat 

337
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,280
is a digital solution, whereas 
of course in actual fact to 

338
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:04,840
pervade an analogue. 
Set up with a digital invasion 

339
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,800
is impossible. 
And again, that's that's 

340
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,720
absolutely being glossed over 
and again, relates exactly back 

341
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,600
to what Mike's been reporting 
on. 

342
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,240
Now the other thing is that 
again, exactly like Mike says 

343
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,160
she's talking about about 
thought crime and pre crime. 

344
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,480
That's exactly where we're going
with this with, with live facial

345
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,320
recognition, because otherwise 
how would she be able to say 

346
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,600
that that has delivered the 
effect that it has? 

347
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,480
And again, concentrating on 
arrests rather than actually the

348
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,680
prevention of the crime in the 
1st place. 

349
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,360
Now, as you've just had us talk 
about the, the announcement of 

350
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,160
the AI capability, she made the 
mistake of giving the, the 

351
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,640
website address of police AI. 
And you'd think that somebody 

352
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,840
might have just popped a holding
page up there, but not so. 

353
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,960
And since AI is heralded as the 
future, I did ask it to generate

354
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,720
create an image of the success 
that Mahmood and the proposed 

355
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,800
National Police Service are 
pointing towards now as a sign 

356
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,360
of things to come. 
This is what was produced, No 

357
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,960
First Lance, you may not see 
much wrong with that. 

358
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,200
And if you can't see it, I 
should point out that it's it's 

359
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,960
sort of two and a bit. 
Police officers wearing an 

360
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,480
extraordinary ray of kit, 
including masks covering their 

361
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,360
face. 
Shabana Mahmood has been turned 

362
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:21,440
into a journalist. 
And and then when you look more 

363
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,480
closely, you'll see the police 
constable on the left of the 

364
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,560
frame is missing his head. 
Now I was confused by this at 

365
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,080
first, but actually I see that 
it is an accurate rendition and 

366
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,880
I've taken advantage of the UK 
columns graphics department to 

367
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,080
correct the image. 
So if we can just go full screen

368
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,920
again, please. 
Chris, this is exactly what's 

369
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,560
being suggested. 
We are replacing the human brain

370
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,160
with a computer. 
We are surrendering the human 

371
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,880
mind to the to the bias of 
artificial intelligence. 

372
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,760
Now the answer proposed is in 
terms of the this this reform is

373
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,120
a national police service and 
you know, one should concede at 

374
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:04,120
least that there are some 
sensible points made and they 

375
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,280
say that as one force, it will 
be better equipped to share 

376
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,120
technology, intelligence and 
resources to stop the growing 

377
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,400
threat from crime that has 
become increasingly complex 

378
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,400
digital online and with no 
respect for Constabulary 

379
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,400
borders. 
Now I, I can talk a bit more 

380
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,720
about this in extra, but there 
are absolutely great frictions 

381
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,880
associated with having 43 
constabuaries within England 

382
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:26,520
alone. 
England and Wales I should say, 

383
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,560
and there are absolutely 
efficiencies to be gained there.

384
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,440
But that's taking it at face 
value and of course ignoring the

385
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,640
very many pitfalls to 
centralisation, which I think is

386
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,280
what the APCC are trying to get 
at. 

387
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,680
But they're pointing towards the
advantages of procuring 

388
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,000
technology, clothing and general
sort of cost saving. 

389
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,400
They're also saying that they 
can recruit another 13,000 more 

390
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:54,840
neighborhood police and they are
trying to separate those on the 

391
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,480
beat from the admin burden. 
Again, would be a would be an 

392
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,120
effective mood move, but only if
done correctly. 

393
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,400
No on vetting and personnel 
disasters. 

394
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,280
There's plan to introduce a 
license of practice to practice,

395
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,160
which is going to be managed by 
the College of Policing. 

396
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,440
But again, the the issue with 
this is it's not really made 

397
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,760
clear how just having a license 
would actually enhance the 

398
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,400
situation. 
So there's there's more to come 

399
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:26,520
out on that and we look further.
Again, to have the pillion 

400
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,240
principle of maintaining the 
relationship with the public 

401
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,720
gives reality to the historic 
tradition that the police are 

402
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,760
the public and the public are 
the police. 

403
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,440
Again, something I think that's 
been glossed over very much in 

404
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,080
the reforms as their put forward
now and I don't know if we've 

405
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,680
got time to just share a quick 
video clip really just to to get

406
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,840
to the point of considering 
whether or not police are 

407
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,440
actually thinking about what 
they're doing. 

408
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,520
Catherine Gunn, who will be 
known to many of the UK column 

409
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,400
audience, was stopped whilst 
coming into the UK recently and 

410
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,680
this is a short clip of her 
experiences. 

411
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,880
At the top of the metal stairway
with three police officers. 

412
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,760
And as soon as we stepped our 
foot out of the plane, we heard 

413
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,840
them say, are you Catherine Gunn
and my daughter's name? 

414
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,800
And I was like, yes. 
And it was a shock to be asked 

415
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,440
by police officers as soon as we
stepped off the plane. 

416
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,280
And so we went down the steps 
and my daughter was taken by a 

417
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:40,600
female police officer to one 
side of the stairs and I was 

418
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,160
taken by two other police 
officers, 2 male officers to the

419
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,000
other side of the stairs. 
So we were separated and then 

420
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,920
basically the male police 
officers asked me. 

421
00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:01,600
They said we have been contacted
by members of the flight crew 

422
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:08,280
who were concerned about child 
safety safeguarding. 

423
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,120
And I was like, well, what's the
evidence? 

424
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,360
There is no evidence. 
What the hell are they talking 

425
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:16,600
about? 
And and they demanded that I 

426
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,160
give them my husband's name, our
address in Turkey. 

427
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,280
And I was like, why should I 
give you that information? 

428
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,040
What's like, I'm not being, are 
you charging me with anything? 

429
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,000
But he basically threatened me 
with taking me to the Border 

430
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,480
Force and dragging out the whole
process if I didn't give him our

431
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,840
address. 
They didn't ask for any 

432
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,080
evidence. 
They didn't ask for our 

433
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,640
passports or anything. 
So Catherine's experiences 

434
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,640
there, which could have been 
over in seconds if they'd simply

435
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,080
asked for passports, but there's
the inference there was that she

436
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,240
might have been might have been 
involved in child trafficking. 

437
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,120
And again, I just, you know, put
it forward that there is a 

438
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,400
reduced element of thought in 
policing in general. 

439
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,480
And so just just to finish off 
the last point from the Pelian 

440
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,720
principles, which is that the 
test of police efficiency is the

441
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,280
absence of crime and disorder, 
not the visible evidence of 

442
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:10,800
police action in dealing with 
it. 

443
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560
And it looks very much like 
Mahmoud's reforms are absolutely

444
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,360
meant to provide the evidence of
dealing with it, rather than the

445
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,520
absence of crime and disorder. 
Thank you, Charles. 

446
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,240
Vanessa, over to you then. 
And we're going to have a look 

447
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000
at Israel and child abuse now. 
Take your time. 

448
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,840
Yeah, of course child abuse, as 
we've been demonstrating for 

449
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,360
some time, as really systemic in
Israel, not only against the 

450
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,320
Palestinians, who of course are 
dehumanised beyond belief and 

451
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,440
tortured in some of the most 
sadistic ways, but even within 

452
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,560
their own society. 
And coming back to the police 

453
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,880
issue, it's fascinating that the
people who are being arrested by

454
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,520
the police in the UK are the 
people that are literally 

455
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,720
exposing the crimes from within 
Israeli society. 

456
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,120
So again, we have to question 
what exactly the police are 

457
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,880
there to do in the UK and 
perhaps we can discuss that 

458
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,000
further in extra, but actually 
this is a follow up. 

459
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,480
This is a recent case where a 
cyber CEO was found guilty of 

460
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,200
statutory rape, assaulted 
children as young as four years 

461
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:36,800
old and multiple minor underage 
rape cases from him. 

462
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,400
This is Itai Levy. 
We actually covered this story, 

463
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,760
I think about a year ago, but 
now he has been found guilty and

464
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,480
convicted. 
And of course he was connected. 

465
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,120
He was the CEO of Cornelius, 
which is a major cybersecurity 

466
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,600
company. 
And again, of course, this 

467
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,760
brings us back to the fact that 
of course much of the 

468
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,640
cybersecurity, the data storage,
the the Health and Education 

469
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Ministry of Defence information 
is going to be stored by 

470
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,480
individuals that are certainly 
have their roots in the Israeli 

471
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,680
spy agencies. 
But seeing to what extent this 

472
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,960
sexual predator nature is 
prevalent in Israeli society, we

473
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,720
also have to start raising 
questions about this. 

474
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,920
This was I think a few days ago,
an IDF, so a military reservist 

475
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,120
convicted in large scale online 
child sexual abuse case. 

476
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,480
Content warning. 
Well, I am going to show the 

477
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,520
content because there's a couple
of things in there that I would 

478
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,280
really like to discuss further 
in extra. 

479
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,040
So let's have a look at what the
case actually involved. 

480
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,160
So apparently he used technology
he found online that allowed him

481
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,040
to appear and sound like a woman
during video calls. 

482
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840
During those conversations, he 
instructed the men to carry out 

483
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,480
sexual acts against their minor 
children. 

484
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,080
This is my first question. 
How on earth can you persuade a 

485
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,160
father, a parent, to actually 
conduct or carry out sexual 

486
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,680
abuse against their own 
children? 

487
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,480
This included infants and very 
young children. 

488
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,400
And to document the abuse and 
send him the footage. 

489
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,680
It detailed a series of 
impersonations that led to 

490
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,520
sexual abuse within families. 
In one case, he posed as a woman

491
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,520
while speaking with the father 
of a one and a half 1 1/2 year 

492
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,360
old girl and directed him to 
carry out sexual acts in the 

493
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,520
child's room during a video 
call. 

494
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,440
In another case, using the alias
Maria, he persuaded a father to 

495
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,040
sexually abuse his young son, 
telling him the child would not 

496
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,440
remember because of his age, 
prosecutors said. 

497
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,080
Alfie also communicated under 
female identities with dozens of

498
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,040
other social media users, 
including minors, convincing 

499
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,800
them to perform sexual acts on 
themselves, record the acts and 

500
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,080
send the material to him. 
Investigators found more than 

501
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,920
150 files containing child 
sexual abuse material in his 

502
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,880
possession. 
I wonder where online safety was

503
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880
in Israel? 
And then I want to come on to 

504
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,800
the latest report from an 
Israeli human rights 

505
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,520
organization based on the 
occupied territories but Slam 

506
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,360
Living Hell. 
This is a follow up from their 

507
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,120
previous report which was called
Welcome to Hell, published in 

508
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720
August 2024. 
The Israeli prison system is a 

509
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,720
network of torture camps. 
So let's have a look at what 

510
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,720
they actually say. 
Now they do give content warning

511
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,440
sexual violence, and I will show
a screenshot from the actual 

512
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,000
report. 
You can freeze frame and read it

513
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,560
well, or of course the link to 
the report will be in the show 

514
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,200
notes. 
But let's have a look at the 

515
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,840
actual screenshot. 
Now, what this is talking about 

516
00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:03,800
is multiple cases of rape with 
with, sorry, it's very difficult

517
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,440
to talk about this with objects,
human beings raping women and 

518
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,840
men within the Israeli forces, 
by the way, conducted these 

519
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:22,640
rapes and appalling torture, 
basically attacking people's 

520
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:29,640
genitals, bringing dogs in to 
urinate on prisoners and so on. 

521
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,840
Absolutely appalling. 
I mean, I wonder what on earth 

522
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,440
I'm reading when you go through 
that report. 

523
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,520
And this is just a very short 
section of one of the videos 

524
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,120
from the first report, Welcome 
to Hell, which as I said, was 

525
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,240
published in August. 
So let's just play this. 

526
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:22,120
I saw. 
Phil Montreal has certainly had 

527
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:37,480
Al al asir Yeah letters. 
So again, as I said, you know, 

528
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,760
with Britain getting closer and 
closer, every single political 

529
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,400
party in the UK being friends of
or having a section which is 

530
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,800
friends of Israel, we need to 
really start wondering to what 

531
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,360
extent they are aware of and are
involved in what is going on. 

532
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,440
Yes. 
Well, well done, Vanessa for 

533
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,160
covering that because this is 
not something that we're hearing

534
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,320
from anybody else as far as I'm 
aware in the UK at least. 

535
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:10,640
And so we need to have more 
insight into these types of 

536
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,680
problems in that part of the 
world. 

537
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,240
Now. 
Let's move on then. 

538
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,960
UK Column, of course, only 
continues to operate with your 

539
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,400
assistance. 
So if you can possibly help us 

540
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,320
financially, that would be 
really appreciated. 

541
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,200
There is a section on the UK 
Column website that you can find

542
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,120
by getting to the front page and
get all the details for how you 

543
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,000
can help help us out that way. 
If you can't help us 

544
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,720
financially, please do at least 
share this program. 

545
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,160
Any of the articles on the 
website, any of the podcasts 

546
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,800
that you enjoy, please share 
those. 

547
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,800
And that helps us beat the 
censorship regime. 

548
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,400
Now tonight, Jeremy is going to 
be speaking to David Vice about 

549
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,880
Flat Earth, apparently. 
So join him at 7:00 for that. 

550
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,280
We've got something to say about
that just after the outbreak 

551
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,560
here. 
And then the Silken Steel 

552
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,560
podcast with Carl Zeiss going to
be talking about Mark Carney and

553
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,840
his comments at Davos. 
But I just want to briefly 

554
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,080
mention David Weiss being on 
with with Germ tonight. 

555
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,560
Of course, Germ covers a wide 
range of topics and he is not in

556
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,760
any way restrictive about who he
speaks to and we wouldn't 

557
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,440
attempt to restrict who he 
speaks to. 

558
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,880
But David Weiss I do have a bit 
of a problem with because of 

559
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,120
course he, aside from the topic 
itself, he pushes forward a an 

560
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,040
app, which is how he apparently 
funds his activities. 

561
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,760
And well, this is Consumer 
Rights Wiki, which is run by 

562
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,159
Lewis Rossman, who is a 
fantastic advocate for consumer 

563
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:48,400
rights and for right to repair 
and so on, and is really the man

564
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,679
behind the the Clippy campaign, 
if anybody is aware of that. 

565
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,000
But what this is pointing out, 
this is that basically for the 

566
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,160
last number of years, Vice has 
been pushing out this app, which

567
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,680
people can get access to through
their various phones and so on, 

568
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:10,680
but that he is completely LAX 
with his security. 

569
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,720
And therefore, people's personal
information, their e-mail 

570
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:18,680
address, their password, their 
location on the planet and so 

571
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,040
on, is easily downloadable from 
the app. 

572
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,080
Now, he's been warned about this
for years and refuses to do 

573
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,280
anything about it. 
So. 

574
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,080
So I think it's just worth 
mentioning that because 

575
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,720
obviously if you do support him 
using this app, you are putting 

576
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,920
any personal information that 
you give at risk. 

577
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,960
So that's just what I wanted to 
say about that. 

578
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,320
Yeah. 
Good. 

579
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,960
OK, let's let's move on to 
reform Charles. 

580
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,400
Yes, no, it's the the weekly 
update which which started and 

581
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,560
it has absolutely been worth 
continuing because there has 

582
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,240
been yet another defection. 
And it just goes to show that 

583
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,560
there is a theme that has 
emerged. 

584
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,680
And here we are seeing Suella 
Brahman with Netanyahu proudly 

585
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,120
showing her face graph on 
Twitter. 

586
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,440
Admittedly, that was back a 
couple of years ago, but she 

587
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,040
talks about strong relationship 
between Israel and the United 

588
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,840
Kingdom. 
And if you've missed previous 

589
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,600
updates on reform, you'll know 
that that is exactly the theme 

590
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,400
that I have been referring to. 
And the question is, is in whose

591
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,240
interests? 
We've had Nigel Farage now going

592
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:25,600
to Davos, protesting, of course,
that he's going to be pursuing 

593
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,000
the idea of national sovereignty
for the United Kingdom. 

594
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,120
But in actual fact, everything 
is pointing in the other 

595
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,720
direction. 
Here We have Bravman back in 

596
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:36,720
2015 on a sponsored visit to 
Israel by the Conservative 

597
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,320
Friends of Israel. 
And just to remind you what the 

598
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,040
Conservative Friends of Israel 
actually do, they say that we 

599
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,080
aim to ensure Israel's case is 
fairly represented in 

600
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,960
parliament, and that means in 
the parliament of the United 

601
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,560
Kingdom. 
Like what business? 

602
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,640
Israel's case has been 
represented by parliamentarians 

603
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,640
who are supposed to represent 
their constituencies, has not 

604
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,080
made quite clear. 
Now Brothman, you may recall, is

605
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:06,160
married to Rael Brothman, who is
also involved with the Reform 

606
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,800
Party. 
And early last year, about a 

607
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,480
year ago, was making overtures 
to the Board of Deputies in 

608
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,000
effect to convince them that 
actually Reform was a natural 

609
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,880
home for people of Jewish faith.
And again, just for context on 

610
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,360
this, it, it shouldn't be 
regarded as coincidence that 

611
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,320
Suella Brotherman was home 
secretary back in 2023 when the 

612
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,680
current conflict took hold. 
And I, I write an article back 

613
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,760
then called home secretary picks
aside for the police. 

614
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,840
And I would encourage you to 
read it because what she did to 

615
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,360
police there, first of all, was 
an abuse of her position as home

616
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,320
secretary in that she was 
trampling all over police 

617
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,760
operational independence. 
But also she was absolutely 

618
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,840
skewing the narrative completely
in favour of Israel. 

619
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,280
And this is where Reform is 
going. 

620
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,880
Thank you for that, Charles. 
Now let's talk about censorship 

621
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,440
for a second, because it's six 
months since Ofcom began 

622
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,480
enforcing age verification in 
the UK, and the effect on 

623
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,280
freedom of speech, of course, 
has been chilling. 

624
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,360
Vanessa and Alex Creel have both
reported on the misuse of the 

625
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,360
requirements to censor on 
Substack. 

626
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,680
And more and more people are 
choosing not to look at content 

627
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,720
rather than to submit to the age
verification regime. 

628
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:23,080
Well, Ofcom has now announced 
that the Global Online Safety 

629
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,280
Regulators Network just put that
back on screen. 

630
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,600
Chris, which is which brings 
together online safety 

631
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,560
regulators across the world, has
set out its views and 

632
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,840
expectations on what they 
describe as the important role 

633
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,120
age assurance pays in the global
effort to protect children. 

634
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,880
Now let's be absolutely clear 
about this. 

635
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,120
It plays no role in protecting 
children. 

636
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,560
This will come on to a second in
a second now in the UK, age 

637
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,960
checks, or they describe it as 
the cornerstone of the Online 

638
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,440
Safety Act. 
And they say that their rules, 

639
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,800
their rules, sorry, requiring 
sites and apps to have highly 

640
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,560
effective age assurance have 
been enforced since July. 

641
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,440
And that they're currently 
monitoring services compliance. 

642
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,800
And that they've opened 83 
investigations into adult 

643
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,680
websites as part of their 
enforcement program. 

644
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,440
And that they have recently 
fined one service provider, AVS,

645
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,560
£1,000,000 for failing to have 
highly effective age assurance 

646
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,160
checks in place. 
And this is because the 

647
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,160
pornography industry is the 
poster child for all of this. 

648
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,840
The justification which is 
supposed to make it acceptable 

649
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,520
in the minds of the public. 
And in an effort to build 

650
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,320
opposition to the policy, then 
the biggest porn site, Pornhub, 

651
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,840
has decided to restrict access 
to its site to UK users from 

652
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,320
next week. 
But as we've been reporting, 

653
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:43,040
despite claims of plummeting 
viewer numbers of Pornhub here 

654
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,720
in the UK, it's clear that 
people have been taking to VPN 

655
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:50,080
use to subvert the age 
verification requirement, and 

656
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,120
this has been recognized. 
And so the House of Lords has 

657
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,240
decided to vote that age 
verification should be extended 

658
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:00,560
to VPN use, confirming what we 
suggested was going to happen at

659
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,760
the time that VPN would become a
target for political 

660
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,200
interference. 
Now, this comes as an amendment,

661
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,280
Amendment 92 to the Children's 
well-being and Schools Bill 

662
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,120
proposed and the amendments 
being proposed by Lord Nash. 

663
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,520
Amendment 92 would insert a new 
clause titled Action to prohibit

664
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,560
the provision of VPN services to
children in the United Kingdom. 

665
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,080
And it requires that within 12 
months of the ACT being passed, 

666
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,040
the Secretary of State must make
regulations prohibiting VPN 

667
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,920
services from being provided to 
children. 

668
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,480
And that's described as under 
eighteens VPN providers may be 

669
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,720
required to apply age assurance 
that is highly effective at 

670
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,760
correctly determining or not the
person is a child. 

671
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,360
That Ofcom would be would 
produce guidance for VPN 

672
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,400
providers and compliance and the
government would establish A 

673
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,880
monitoring regime with 
enforcement measures and 

674
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,160
penalties for non compliance. 
But it's been pointing out time 

675
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,160
and time again, none of this 
does anything to protect 

676
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,920
children who are by far put at 
risk. 

677
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Far and away the biggest risk 
online is by adults posing as 

678
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,600
children on websites like Roblox
that have no age assurance 

679
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,520
department to confirm that users
are actually children. 

680
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,160
The biggest risk to children is 
from grooming. 

681
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,520
And these are the types of 
platforms. 

682
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,720
Roblox is the type of platform 
where that kind of thing happens

683
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:18,320
as highlighted by Miller law on 
screen at the moment. 

684
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,760
All this in the show notes, so 
do pay attention on the UK 

685
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,480
column website to the show notes
for this. 

686
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,520
But then moving on from here, of
course, Australia decided that 

687
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,280
under under 16 should be banned 
from any social media useless 

688
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,160
use. 
Recently, France has now decided

689
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,720
to do the same thing. 
So they've passed a bill that 

690
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:40,840
will ban social media use by 
under fifteens in their case. 

691
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,960
And this, of course, was 
championed by Macron as a way to

692
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,720
protect children from too much 
screen time. 

693
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,080
So the National Assembly has 
adopted to that it will go to 

694
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,000
the Senate and so on. 
And Macron very excited about 

695
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,800
this. 
It's a major step apparently in 

696
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,040
dealing with this. 
And then finally, I just want to

697
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,080
mention that, Oh, sorry, just 
before we get on to the finally,

698
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,440
we'll just mention, of course, 
this is absolutely happening in 

699
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,400
the UK as well because the 
proposals are in, here's the 

700
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,520
House of Commons library 
proposals to ban social media 

701
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,480
for children. 
So this is coming to the UK as 

702
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,320
well. 
And finally I'll just mention 

703
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,320
what's been going on with TikTok
because TikTok users are saying 

704
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,520
they can't upload anti ice 
videos in the United States. 

705
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,200
TikTok themselves are saying 
that this is as a result of tech

706
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,680
issues. 
The BBC covering this as well. 

707
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,560
TikTok US pushes back on claims 
it's censoring content. 

708
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,880
Now they're saying that this is 
because of tech issues. 

709
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,040
It may well be. 
What I'll say is that if it's, 

710
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,160
if it is genuine, then this is 
an example of the next step, 

711
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,640
which of course is that content 
gets scanned before it's 

712
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,600
uploaded and it's prevented from
being uploaded in the 1st place 

713
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,040
if it's content that they don't 
like. 

714
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,960
What I'm going to say about 
purely anecdotal, I'll accept, 

715
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,680
but our personal experience with
tech Tiktok is that it is, 

716
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,480
despite its claims that that 
that it's not censoring people, 

717
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,160
it is the most censorious social
media platform out there. 

718
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,400
And so I'm highly skeptical 
about their claims that this was

719
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,160
just sort of some kind of 
technical accidental thing. 

720
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,200
But so the the censorship regime
moves on appears. 

721
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,600
But let's come back to Vanessa 
then. 

722
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,880
Vanessa, lots been going on, 
particularly in North East Syria

723
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,240
with the Kurds. 
Yes, I, I thought I but I'd 

724
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:32,520
swing back to Syria because 
there is AI mean there has been 

725
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,960
a lot going on for the last few 
years, but there is a lot of 

726
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:44,920
clashes going on between the 
Kurds and the Jolani HDS Takfiri

727
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,280
forces. 
And it appears that despite the 

728
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:54,400
fact that allegedly the Kurds 
fought ISIS in Syria for years 

729
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,680
now the US allies say they've 
been abandoned. 

730
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,000
And this is the general 
narrative. 

731
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,320
Now, of course, from my 
perspective, having lived in 

732
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,640
Syria, the Kurds, backed by the 
United States, effectively 

733
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,960
occupied NE Syria and took 
control of the oil resources and

734
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,680
the agricultural resources. 
And in my opinion, were 

735
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:24,200
absolutely pivotal to the fall 
of Syria by energy, depriving 

736
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,160
the Syrian people and also 
depriving them of agricultural 

737
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,920
resources from Syrian territory 
in the North East on behalf of 

738
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,400
the United States. 
And, in fact, former Syrian 

739
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,520
President Bashar al-Assad said 
this in 2019 in relation to the 

740
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,680
Kurds. 
We tell those groups who are 

741
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,600
betting on the Americans that 
the Americans will not protect 

742
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,440
you. 
They will put you in their 

743
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,800
pockets so that you can be a 
bargaining chip. 

744
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,200
And he was always very clear, as
was our leadership of the 

745
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,040
Lebanese resistance, that the 
Kurds would, as they have 

746
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,040
historically be betrayed by the 
United States. 

747
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:05,520
Now, I just wanted to show, I 
think this is a map from 20, 19,

748
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,200
which shows the territory that 
then was under the control even 

749
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,480
up to December 2024, that was 
under control of the Kurds, 

750
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,720
which is the yellow section, the
green sections in the north 

751
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:21,040
there that are under the control
of the Turkish military and 

752
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,880
their proxies. 
But if we look at a very recent 

753
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,400
map, this is January 2026. 
It's a little bit confusing, but

754
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,080
the two red circles there are 
basically where the Kurdish 

755
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:37,320
forces and civilians have been 
forced to withdraw to, to as 

756
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,440
they call it, Kobani and Hasika.
So Kobani in the north and 

757
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,440
Hasika in the North East, of 
course surrounded by the Turkish

758
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,960
proxies and now by HTS. 
And of course, surprise, 

759
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:56,760
surprise perhaps for some is the
fact that ISIS are now being 

760
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,320
released. 
I'll come on to that. 

761
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,880
This is a statement by Tom 
Barrack in the last couple of 

762
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,400
days. 
So he's basically now saying 

763
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,560
Syria has acknowledged the 
central government that has 

764
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,560
joined the global coalition to 
defeat ISIS. 

765
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,800
This shifts the rationale for 
the USSTF partnership. 

766
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,400
The original purpose of SDF as 
the primary anti ISIS force on 

767
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,320
the ground has largely expired. 
And in fact he goes on to say 

768
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,920
that Jolani and the HTS forces 
will take control of the ISIS 

769
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,400
holding camps. 
Meanwhile, of course, the 

770
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,440
majority of Jolani's Takfiri 
forces comprise ISIS members. 

771
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,400
So guess what? 
They're actually releasing ISIS 

772
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,600
members from the prisons. 
I think there's 9 prisons in the

773
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:49,760
northeast holding up to 100,000 
ISIS fighters and their 

774
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,760
families. 
But then if we look at what 

775
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,080
Lindsey Graham is saying, who's 
come slightly more to prominence

776
00:46:55,080 --> 00:47:00,760
recently under Trump, he says it
would be a disaster for US 

777
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,200
reputation and national security
interests to abandon the Kurds. 

778
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,640
I will be introducing 
legislation this week designed 

779
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,720
to impose crippling sanctions on
any government or group engaged 

780
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:15,520
in hostilities against the 
Kurds, the Save the Kurds Act. 

781
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,600
So this is getting a little bit 
silly now because Trump has just

782
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,960
allegedly withdrawn the season 
sanctions on Jelani's 

783
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,160
government, whereas now Lindsey 
Graham is going to bring in an 

784
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,840
act to reimpose sanctions on the
HDS government for the massacres

785
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,840
that are now being committed 
against Kurdish civilians in the

786
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,840
areas where HDS is advancing. 
Then let's have a look. 

787
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,120
And this is, in my opinion, 
entirely what this is all about.

788
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,600
This is from U.S. central 
Command CENTCOM. 

789
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,400
U.S. forces launched mission in 
Syria to guess what, transfer 

790
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,400
ISIS detainees to Iraq. 
So what are they actually 

791
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,960
saying? 
They're saying the transfer 

792
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,240
mission began while U.S. forces 
successfully transported 150 

793
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:05,280
ISIS fighters, held a detention 
facility in Haseka, Syria to a 

794
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,800
secure location in Iraq. 
Ultimately, up to 7000 ISIS 

795
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:14,560
detainees could be transferred 
from Syria to Iraqi controlled 

796
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,120
facilities. 
Now, I'm sure this is absolutely

797
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,440
nothing to do with the upcoming 
potential aggression against 

798
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,280
Iran. 
Trump is bringing in his big 

799
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,720
beautiful Armada as he's 
described it. 

800
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,360
And if we just move on, Trump is
saying, I'm hearing that the 

801
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,040
great country of Iraq might make
a very bad choice by reinstating

802
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,240
Nouri al-maliki as Prime 
Minister. 

803
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:42,000
Last time Maliki was in power, 
the country descended into 

804
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,960
poverty and total chaos, nothing
to do with the United States. 

805
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,400
Of course, that should not be 
allowed to happen again because 

806
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,360
of course, how Trump perceives 
it and how the region perceives 

807
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:58,160
that Nouri al-maliki will be 
very sympathetic to Iran with 

808
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,280
the upcoming aggression yet 
again. 

809
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,040
He also says Trump make Iraq 
great again. 

810
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,240
And I just wanted to include so 
the fact that ISIS is now being 

811
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:12,200
transferred from Syria to Iraq. 
Russia is withdrawing its troops

812
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,560
from the Karmishly base in the 
northeast, and Jolani is in 

813
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:21,160
Moscow today to discuss the 
movements and and the bilateral 

814
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,440
agreement with Putin. 
I'll leave people to speculate 

815
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,680
on exactly what that means. 
But I wanted to draw attention 

816
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,560
also to the UK involvement in 
the ISIS camps in the northeast 

817
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,600
because again, I'm sure people 
are probably saying, well, this 

818
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,400
has nothing to do with the UK. 
In 2021, the UK provided funding

819
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,600
for the expansion of one of the 
ISIS camps in Haseko, northeast 

820
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,200
Syria. 
Rather than repatriate British 

821
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,400
nationals, the UK Foreign Office
condemn them to a life in prison

822
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,560
in conditions that are described
as inhumane by various human 

823
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,560
rights groups, according to 
report in Defence One. 

824
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,440
The effort will double in size 
the current facility at Hausiga,

825
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,520
a series of three converted 
school buildings that hold 

826
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,280
roughly 5000 prisoners, 
according to British Army Major 

827
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,400
General Kevin Cropsey, the 
coalition's deputy commander for

828
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,920
strategies. 
So Britain very heavily involved

829
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,640
in this also and a recent 
article, I think in the last two

830
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,040
days from Kit Clarenberg, where 
he talks about leaked documents 

831
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,240
demonstrating how the MI 6 
infiltrated ISIS refugee camps 

832
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,600
and were involved in the 
indoctrination, particularly of 

833
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,480
children in radical ideology. 
So as we've talked about the 

834
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:38,280
radicalization of elements in 
the UK that would then be sent 

835
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,600
to fight alongside Al Qaeda in 
Syria. 

836
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,880
The UK apparently appears to 
have been doing that within the 

837
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,320
ISIS holding camps that they are
funding in the North East of 

838
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,800
Syria to effectively be 
weaponized against wrist 

839
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,440
resistance movements in the 
region. 

840
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,120
Which we have formed for Vanessa
with al Qaeda as well and HTS 

841
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,120
over the years. 
Yes, OK, well, I'm sure we'll be

842
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,560
talking about that an extra as 
well, Charles. 

843
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,680
Let's end, then, with China. 
Because of course, Mark Carney 

844
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,400
was in China a week or two ago, 
and now Keir Starmer has gone. 

845
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,600
It's Thomas Turn. 
He has announced on Twitter, 

846
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,680
where else, that he has landed 
in China. 

847
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,640
You'd be forgiven for thinking 
he's gone there in his capacity 

848
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,000
as a postman or a Courier, he 
says. 

849
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,120
He's I'm here to deliver for the
British people, he goes on in 

850
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,320
his press release to make a 
point of striking honesty, but 

851
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,720
obviously an attempt to extract 
political capital and take the 

852
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:33,640
high ground. 
He said or released. 

853
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,560
It was written for him. 
For years our approach to China 

854
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,640
has been dogged by 
inconsistency, blowing hot and 

855
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,760
cold from the Golden Age to Ice 
Age. 

856
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,440
But like it or not, China 
matters for the UK and it it it 

857
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,000
does seem that he has hit it at 
the heart of the inconsistency 

858
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,320
surrounding commentary on China,
which is to say that people are 

859
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,880
prepared to make damning 
criticism of the place whilst 

860
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,320
remaining absolutely content to 
rely upon all the goods which 

861
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,400
are imported from there. 
But Starmer himself wanting to 

862
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,720
appear tough, banging the drum 
for national security. 

863
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:08,440
He says, rather the press 
release says that he will be 

864
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,400
clear that we will not trade 
Economic Cooperation for our 

865
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,760
national security and he'll 
raise the areas where we 

866
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,640
disagree with China so that the 
language sort of softened to a 

867
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,320
certain extent. 
Now what one has to ask is, is 

868
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,160
it coincidence that the BBC has 
chosen exactly this moment to 

869
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,200
suggest Chinese military is in 
complete disarray with an 

870
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,480
article here? 
China has purged its highest 

871
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,840
ranking military general. 
Why now? 

872
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,160
This is about the disappearance,
in fact back in November of 

873
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:43,560
General Zhang and he's the most 
senior figure in the Central 

874
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:47,920
Military Commission. 
And to substantiate their 

875
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,800
position, the BBC has quoted 
Lyle Morris from the 

876
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:55,280
Rockefeller, Rockefeller funded 
Asia Society Policy Institute, 

877
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,560
who speculated that there are 
lots of rumours floating around.

878
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,360
We don't know at this point what
is true and what is false. 

879
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,120
And he went on to be absolutely 
certain in saying that it's 

880
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,840
certainly bad for Xi Jinping, 
for his leadership and control 

881
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,280
over the People's Liberation 
Army. 

882
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,360
Quite how he reached that 
conclusion remains to be seen. 

883
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,920
They then asked associate 
professor from the National 

884
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,960
University of Singapore, who 
again speculated completely, 

885
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,120
saying that he'd heard rumours, 
everything from leaking nuclear 

886
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,600
secrets to the United States, 
plotting A coup and factional 

887
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,720
infighting. 
There are even rumours of a 

888
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,080
gunfight in Beijing. 
So essentially the entire BBC 

889
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,040
article based on nothing but 
circumspection. 

890
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,040
The reader is obviously expected
to come away with increased 

891
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,400
suspicion of the Chinese state, 
and indeed they're to consider 

892
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,560
that they're now very vulnerable
militarily, despite the fact 

893
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,600
that the people of Liberation 
Army still numbers over 

894
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,680
2,000,000 men and women. 
Now whilst I'm not going to 

895
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,600
claim to have the answers that 
the BBC couldn't quite grasp, I 

896
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,600
can point out one or two things 
that they failed to collide 

897
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,920
with. 
The first being that the 15th 5 

898
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,080
year plan here shown on the 
State Council website begins in 

899
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,160
March. 
And General Zhang has it's been 

900
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,560
out of the public eye since 
November. 

901
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,600
As I said, he's also 75 years 
old. 

902
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,600
So like Starmer, perhaps it is 
time for a change, despite the 

903
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,840
allegations of corruption and 
wrongdoing and all sorts of 

904
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,360
other things. 
Which may indeed be the case as 

905
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,760
well. 
Not only that, but the military 

906
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,760
is looking to modernise. 
So again, is this coincidence as

907
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,600
the State Council announces that
the regulations which will take 

908
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,840
effect focus on accelerating the
modernisation of military 

909
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,880
theory, optimising the top level
design for innovation in 

910
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,560
military theory. 
So is that the sort of change 

911
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,440
that one would implement with a 
75 year old at the helm? 

912
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,640
That is simply a question that I
might put there. 

913
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,760
Now, Starmer also referenced the
relationship between defence, or

914
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,040
as he calls it, national 
security and trade. 

915
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,720
And this is precisely what 
Trump's Board of Peace is is 

916
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,120
bringing to the fore. 
And here's the news, the 

917
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,400
invitation as published by the 
Chinese embassy in London. 

918
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:08,120
All of which puts the spotlight 
on the relevance in the role of 

919
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,240
NATO. 
Now, of the many commentaries 

920
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,920
out there, I had a look at The 
Diplomat, which has an article 

921
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,920
out recently published titled 
The disintegration of NATO would

922
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,040
not be in China's Interests. 
And what they're positing, among

923
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,400
other things, is that the the 
Chinese experts have argued that

924
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,280
NATO began looking for a new 
adversary after the Cold War to 

925
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,920
justify its existence. 
Not not exactly a contentious 

926
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,200
position necessarily, but of 
course the point to be brought 

927
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,840
out of it is that the situation 
with NATO, which regards China 

928
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,880
as a challenge rather than a 
threat, is 1 of stalemates. 

929
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,680
So it doesn't. 
None of those present prevents 

930
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:50,960
NATO from posturing. 
And we can consider the awkward 

931
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,160
confluence of running military 
operations, as Luke Pollard 

932
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,360
said, to boost trade. 
And we're looking here at the 

933
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,280
Carrier Strike Group, which set 
off from the United Kingdom last

934
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:08,440
year, touring the South Pacific 
region with it's occasionally 

935
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,960
just composed of United Kingdom 
vessels and aircraft and 

936
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,880
occasionally with other NATO 
fleets. 

937
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,160
But what they did do whilst they
were there was to boast that 

938
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,480
they transited the South China 
Sea. 

939
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,280
Of course, no actual engagement 
with China. 

940
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:31,360
But to refer back to Starmer's 
point, which is that one so many

941
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,160
are so determined to ignore, of 
course, the United Kingdom 

942
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:38,000
imports more from China than any
other country except for the 

943
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,640
United States and Germany. 
So as things stand, the United 

944
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:46,000
Kingdom is much more dependent 
upon China than China is on the 

945
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,080
United Kingdom. 
Now, UK column is going to be 

946
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,800
doing more of what we should, 
which is finding out for 

947
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,200
ourselves. 
So we'll hope to be able to 

948
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,480
break new greater insight on 
this in the coming weeks because

949
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,600
Mike and I will be in China for 
the latter stages of the Stalmer

950
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,480
visit and we'll be able to talk 
a bit more about that in extra. 

951
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:09,360
But for now, Mike, what do you 
think about the UK's attitude 

952
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,080
towards China and I suppose 
especially in light of the 

953
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,880
comments of Mark Carney and so 
forth? 

954
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,000
Yeah, I think UK has 
demonstrated absolute 

955
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,560
schizophrenia with respect to 
China for a number of years now.

956
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,960
We have, we have produced the 
China report from the House of 

957
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,360
Lords. 
I believe we have decided that 

958
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,480
Huawei is not appropriate 
because it's a national security

959
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,440
threat to it's not appropriate 
to have that on our 5G networks 

960
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,280
because 5G networks are used for
dual use these days. 

961
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,440
And of course we don't worry 
about the fact that our 5G 

962
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:51,440
networks are often heavily 
polluted with it's really unit 

963
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,640
8200 inspired hardware. 
So you know, if we're worried 

964
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,200
about countries stealing data, 
which countries is it that we 

965
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:04,360
should be most worried about? 
And so, yeah, there there seems 

966
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:10,680
to be definite efforts to try to
demonise China while at the same

967
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:16,120
time keeping relations there. 
I suspect Britain and and Carney

968
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,920
probably represents this policy 
as well, is very keen to do 

969
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,920
anything that it can to split 
China away from Russia if if 

970
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,400
that's, you know, if that's how 
they view the the major threat. 

971
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,320
Yeah, well, that was it was 
actually one of the things that 

972
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,000
the article in the Diplomat went
on to to refer to. 

973
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,960
But of course, the line that 
they take is that is that Russia

974
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,280
is is acting, you know, in the 
sort of mainstream sense in 

975
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,480
terms of the aggression and and 
whatnot. 

976
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,800
And and what, if anything, do 
you think Starmer will come away

977
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,320
from China with? 
Well, he'll come away with 

978
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,880
absolutely nothing. 
Yeah, exactly. 

979
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,600
So hence the use of the word 
deliver rather than. 

980
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,040
Yes, bring back. 
Yes, exactly. 

981
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:53,760
Yes, yeah. 
So we'll we'll see what happens 

982
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:54,840
there. 
But as I say, we should have 

983
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,160
some more commentary on that by 
next week. 

984
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,560
So that brings us to more or 
less, I think the end of the IT.

985
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,240
It, it does indeed, yes. 
So we, we do have to finish 

986
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,440
there for today, unfortunately, 
but with much more an extra if 

987
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,240
you're UK column member, if 
you're not a UK column member, 

988
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,560
maybe you'd like to join us and 
that helps us do what we're 

989
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,800
doing. 
And you can join us for extra 

990
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,400
anytime. 
We are hosting a news programme.

991
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,640
I want to say thank you to 
Vanessa and Charles, of course, 

992
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,560
for joining me today. 
And for everybody that's been 

993
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,160
watching, don't forget, if you 
want to look at the 

994
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,320
documentation behind the stories
that we've covered today, have a

995
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,400
look in the show notes. 
But we'll be back in a few 

996
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,360
minutes on this stream if you're
AUK column member. 

997
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,680
Otherwise, don't forget the 
interviews this evening, an 

998
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,320
interview going out at 1:00 PM 
tomorrow. 

999
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,240
News again, 1:00 PM on Friday. 
We will see you then. 

1000
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:47,280
Bye, bye, bye bye.