None. Sadie Morrell, thank you for
joining me in the trenches. Thank, thank you for having me.
I say trenches, obviously metaphorically, but there is an
information war. I mean particularly around milk.
I mean, just about everywhere you go in the world, you cannot
drink unpasteurized milk. Well, not in the states.
We've been working on this for 25 years.
So the milk is regulated by the states, not the federal
government. So what we've been doing is
working on the state level to liberalise the laws.
We have a website, realmilk.com, and the when we started there
were about 30 sources of raw milk in America and now there's
about 5000. So it's very available in
America now. In other parts of the world, it
just depends. But we also list, we list
sources in Europe and other places.
What is your background? I'm an English major, of course
it totally qualifies me for what I'm doing.
Actually, actually, actually, no, wait, hold on.
That does qualify you because I think people who get stuck into
the academic paradigms get, they get restricted by the lanes in
which they are put That's. Right.
Well, you know, the other English major who's made a name
for himself is Joel Salatin, the famous farmer.
So I like to say that neither of us is qualified for what we do.
But no. But I'm a writer and I wrote a
book called Nourishing Traditions that sold very well,
and it's been quite influential. And I've written other books
besides. But Nourishing Traditions was
what? That was the first volley in
this war against the low fat paradigm, the the pasteurised
milk paradigm. Well, let's just start with the
absolute basics, because somebody told me recently that
just drinking cow's milk as a whole is not a good idea.
You know what, Jeremy? I've been around a long time and
I have yet to see a person turn into a cow by drinking cow.
When we look, and of course we look at the work of Weston
Price, and the healthiest people that he studied were those who
had herds, and we're drinking raw cow's milk or raw goat's
milk. We have the example in the
Scandinavia of the people who drink reindeer milk.
They're very healthy. We have the Mongolians who drink
mare's milk. We have people in Africa who
drink camel's milk all over the world, for thousands of years,
people have drunk the milk of various species of animals and
they're healthier for it because milk is such a complete food.
I was in China a few months ago and I drank camel's milk and it
wasn't too bad. Yeah, camel's milk is saltier
than other milks, which I think is kind of interesting.
Yes, but it wasn't too bad. I won't drink it and on purpose.
Well, cow's milk is just so absolutely delicious when the
cows are eating grass and when the and when it's full fat, it's
just, it's like an elixir. But then, Saddy, why is there a
war on unpasteurized milk? Well, it started back in the
1800s and we really didn't have a problem with the milk at that
time. The milk in New York and the
other cities was filthy. It was coming from confinement
dairies in the cities who and the cows were eating the swill
from whiskey production. So they're very poorly
nourished. And they actually added chalk to
the milk to make it look white. And the death rate among
children in these cities was 50%.
Now wasn't only the fault of the milk.
There were no sewers. There's no clean water.
I mean, the cities were just squalid.
The festering heaps of horse and mule manure.
And all of this was called the milk problem.
It was all blamed on the milk and certainly it was partly due
to the milk. And eventually we got things
cleaned up. You know, the car replaced the
horse and they put sewers in and they cleaned up the water and,
and we got refrigeration and we set up a system of bringing
clean milk from the countryside into the cities and the death
rate went down. But then pasteurisation came
along as a supposed solution to this and the the problem had
already been solved. But the people could see the
monopolist could see a way of monopolising and controlling the
sale of milk by pasteurising because it forced the farmers to
sell their milk to the dairy company by law and they could no
longer set their price and and the dairy companies were the
ones making the profit on the milk.
I'm very glad that you are in line with Weston Price because
Weston Price has done incredible work over the years.
Well, so Weston Price. He died in 1948.
The. Year.
Well, I mean the whole foundation.
Oh, and the foundation? We set up the foundation in in
2000 to carry on his legacy because really, he's the one
who's shown us what kind of diet supports true health in people.
Yeah, he was a dentist, wasn't he?
Pardon me. He was a dentist, wasn't he?
He was a dentist and for 10 years he went to different parts
of the globe looking for truly isolated, what do you call
primitive people? And he found fourteen groups
that had superb health, no cavities, broad faces, naturally
straight teeth, robust physiques, ease of childbirth in
the women and absence of chronic disease.
So these people don't exist anymore and it's certainly not
true of our society. But then the question is, well,
what were these people eating? And the diets were different
everywhere. Some of them did have milk, of
course, it was raw milk. But the Eskimos and the South
Sea Islanders, they didn't have milk, but they were equally
healthy. The cultures that didn't have
milk made a point of eating bones.
They crushed up the bones of small animals or fish or birds
and added the crushed bones to their food to get calcium.
The the the common denominator in all of these diets was that
they were very high in minerals and very high in what we call
the fat soluble vitamins AD and K.
And where do we get those vitamins in all the foods we're
being told not to eat the eggs and the yolks of the eggs with
butter, organ meats. Blood was a very good source of
these nutrients. And I see a little grimace
there, but you know, a blood sausage is fixture in European
diets ever it was. So it's much.
Easier, but I think I think I'll I'll be OK with the steak and
and and saturated fat. Well, but The thing is, The
thing is the steak is fine and if you always want to eat meat
with the fat, but you're not going to get your fat soluble
vitamins from the steak, you need to eat liver once a week,
just like our ancestors did to get the vitamin A.
Yeah. I mean what you're touching on
there is sort of ketogenic, low carbohydrate, almost almost
carnivore type diet. Well, not the way it's practised
today. And these, they don't understand
the importance of the organ meats and the fats.
And you do need carbs. There were very few diets that
didn't have carbs. The ones that didn't have carbs,
80% of calories were from fat. That's a little bit hard to do,
but we need carbs for thyroid function.
So it's not it's it's low carb, but it's not no carb.
What's the name of that? Is it a Swedish?
Swedish explorer about 100 years ago who went and lived with the
Eskimos. Stefansen, Stefansen.
Yeah, that's him. Yeah.
Incredible results. Yeah, but he's stressed how
important the fat was. And he, he said that when
traditional cultures kill, like kill the Buffalo, OK, the first
thing they did was eat the brain, the liver, the marrow,
which is 90% fat, and the tongue.
Then they they kept some of the lean meat, but most of it that
was just thrown away to the dogs and they kept all the fat.
So on an old Buffalo you'd have 50 lbs of fat and then the meat
was smoked or dried, preserved in some way, and they always ate
the meat with the fat. So just for clarity, raw and
unpasteurized milk are the same thing.
That's right. But but unpasteurized comes from
Louis Pasteur, who hated germs. Yes, right.
Well, he was. He was quite a a manipulator
actually. And a fraud is, is what you're
wanting to say. Yeah.
Well, I don't say fraud, but he was very political and he was
determined to get his view out there.
And we is very, there's quite a bit of evidence that he cheated
on some of his studies and he was out to smell vaccine.
Yeah. He, he saw a lot of money in it.
Yeah. His counterpart at the time, I
think, was Antonio Bechamp. Who?
Yeah, who I've whose work I've read and I've find extremely
persuasive. Who said that we have these
microzymes, the tiny, tiny little specks, and they're sort
of potential life forms. And then, depending on the
circumstances, they will turn into, you know, different types
of bacteria. But now you've said that the CDC
and the FDA consider raw milk the enemy.
But to what end? I mean, how do they gain from
from demonising it in? The pockets of the dairy
industry, the dairy industry, it's huge, it's very powerful.
The executives earn salaries in the 1,000,000 while the farmers
are going out of business. And in the last 20 years they
have not raised the prices that they're paying the farmer.
So the farmer's getting the same price for his milk that he got
in World War 2 and he can't make World War Two.
He he's getting $1.50 a gallon. I've heard prices as low as
$0.65 a gallon for the farmers and they can't, they can't
survive and the farms are going out of business.
I think it's the rate of 16 per week.
And it's just decimated the Country Life, the rural life in
America. So what these farmers learn or
realise is they can they can actually make a decent living
selling raw milk and many have transitioned to raw milk.
So here in South Africa it's still illegal to sell raw milk.
Everything has to be pasteurised.
But you can, you can get around it by going to say a farmer and
you say look, it's it's for animals.
And then they'll sell it to you or even give it to you.
Yeah, so I have a farm here in Maryland and we sell milk for
dogs and cats. And quote unquote.
There are a lot of cats, dogs and cats around here because
it's our best seller, you know, people are lined up for it.
And we have a number of states like that, New Jersey, I think
Florida, North Carolina. So there's a few states where
that loophole is definitely being used.
Now, I've been told my whole life that raw milk is bad for
you. Well, you've been told it's
dangerous and it'll kill you. So we have a gal who looked
very, very carefully at all the statistics.
And since 2000, with probably 10 to 20 million people drinking
raw milk, there may have been 2 deaths.
One of these deaths I don't think existed at all, and the
other death I think was due to something else, but they blame
it on raw milk. So they say there's been two
deaths, but there's been 5 or 6 deaths from pasteurised milk.
So it's not like in pasteurised milk, it's completely safe
either. But what is the argument against
raw milk? What is the actual argument?
Well. That it's dangerous, that it'll
kill you, that it's. No, but like, why?
Why what? Like what's in it that's going
to kill you? These bacteria in it and the
bacteria are dangerous and they'll kill you.
But The thing is, well, we produce raw milk that has no
bacteria in it. It's very possible to do it in a
clean way, but even if it does have bacteria in it, they're not
necessarily pathogenic bacteria. And we know now that you need
good bacteria in the gut, and the bacteria in raw milk help
populate the gut with the good bacteria.
So it's all based on an outdated paradigm that bacteria are bad.
And we now know that you can't live without bacteria.
But the the bureaucrats are stuck in their old beliefs, I
guess. But is it actually evidence that
the bacteria in raw milk is toxic?
No, I mean, bacteria can turn toxic.
Let's just say the milk is extracted in very, very
unsanitary conditions and the milk could turn to the bacteria
could turn toxic. But, and that's why you need to
know what you're doing when you're milking cows.
You know, not everyone is qualified to, to be a dairy
farmer. Not, not everybody has that kind
of personality to be very meticulous.
But we have plenty of unregulated dairies in this
country that are producing perfectly good milk.
And nobody's getting sick, and nobody's certainly nobody's
dying. OK but the counter argument
might be then. OK, but then do people get sick
from pasteurised milk? Yes, and they do.
In fact we had a case, it was in 2007.
There were three deaths from milk that had been completely,
perfectly pasteurised and there were three deaths and a lot of
people sick. And you know the other thing,
Jeremy, which they never tell you, the largest outbreak of
foodborne illness in history took place in 1980, four, 1985,
and it was from a dairy that was pasteurising the milk it was
from. Pasteurising really, What
happened? And it was hundreds of thousands
of people got sick. I don't know if there were any
deaths, but oh, they just get carried on and maybe looked at
some of the sanitary procedures or something.
But the pasteurisation did not protect the public.
The process of pasteurising milk though, does it also reduce the
nutritional value? Yes, and this is what we've been
saying and we know that all the enzymes are killed when you
pasteurise milk and every vitamin and mineral in milk.
And of course, it's a very nutrient dense food, has a
enzyme that attaches to it and ensures complete assimilation
because milk is designed for a baby that does not have a
digestive system that's fully online yet.
So those enzymes have to be there.
And that that's what makes milk so good for people with
compromised digestion, people who are, you know, have a lot of
health problems, low energy because all the nutrients are
absorbed. Now you've got two things going
on here. You've got pasteurisation, the
old type of pasteurisation, which was a slow heating to 160°
and that's bad, but it's not nearly as bad as what they do
today, which is ultra high temperature or high temperature
pasteurisation. That is a rapid heating pass.
Super heated stainless steel plates.
It takes the milk to 280°F. That is so hot that not only is
it destroyed the enzymes, it's destroyed all the proteins in
the milk and that's where you get allergies, you get
anaphylactic shock. They've been there are 20 to 30
deaths per year from anaphylactic shock to milk.
And that's because these proteins are foreign proteins
for the body. And you know, there's the body
really doesn't have a very good way of dealing with them.
So if I'm correct, the process of pasteurisation it's basically
just heating up the milk and then cooling it down quickly?
Well, it's either heating it up slowly or heating up very
rapidly and then cooling down. But it's the heating, it's not
the cooling that's the problem. Which kills everything.
Yeah, which really kills everything and that's why milk
drinking is associated with all these problems, allergies,
asthma, respiratory disease and digestive disorders.
And of course, the parents take the children off of milk.
They say my kids allergic to milk.
Well, they are. They're allergic to pasteurised
milk. But very often they find that
the children can tolerate raw milk beautifully and thrive on
it. Well our kid is 17 months old
and he's had raw milk and he was fine.
And he also had breast milk, right?
Yes, He's never actually he's Yeah, well, he's never had
formula. Yeah, only breast milk.
And he's thriving, right? He's never been sick.
Yeah, I have 5 grandchildren all brought up in raw milk and
they've never been sick. Oh, and unvaccinated, I might
add. Yeah, same with me.
Unvaccinated raw milk, cod liver oil, Those are the three.
That's the triumvirate for making sure that you have
healthy kids. And it's, you know, they're much
healthier than I was. They, they don't have allergies,
they don't have asthma, they're just perfectly normal, healthy
children. And that is the, the, the right
of a child is to be healthy like that.
You just know how have to know how to do it.
And then to make matters worse, not only is the milk
pasteurised, but then they mark it hard, low fat or even skim
milk. Yeah, I mean, pasteurised low
fat milk is a poison, absolute poison, because it will not only
not give you the vitamin A you need, but it will deplete you of
vitamin A you're getting from other foods.
How will it do that? Well, when you need, when you
eat protein, the body releases vitamin A from the liver because
you need vitamin A to process the protein, to assimilate the
protein. So I'm very concerned about
these high protein diets that don't have enough fat in them,
that don't have cod liver oil, where they're not eating liver,
they're not getting vitamin A, not eating butter.
And that's that's the danger I think of these carnivore diets.
They really don't understand how traditional cultures ate meat.
They threw most of the meat away in an animal and ate the fat in
the organ meats. And I, I know it's, it's hard
for us because we don't have the taste for that.
It's actually easier in Europe to do this because there's a lot
of liver sandwiches, liver Pate, blood sausage and all these
nutrient dense foods if you'll eat them, you know, but we don't
have those things in the States. So you have to try harder.
Yeah, that gentleman who lived with the Eskimos that we spoke
about, he only ate, I think seal meat and and basically fish and
then some vegetables once here and there because of, you know,
the the conditions were not conducive to to, to, to plants.
And he was perfectly healthy, but he had a berries.
They had berries in the summer. Big treat.
But when you say seal, I mean the seal, of course, is a very
savvy animal. And they ate the fat, seal fat.
And it was also the highest food in vitamin A that Doctor Price
ever tested. So it's very rich in vitamin A.
The problem is that people don't want to eat a cute animal.
They don't want to eat what? A cute animal.
Yeah, I mean a seal.
The seal's cute. I.
Don't know I I wouldn't want to eat a cat or a dog but.
I can. I think I could.
Eat a seal. But you said that most of the
nutrients get lost in the pasteurising pasteurisation
process. But I mean, not only do they get
lost, they get completely destroyed.
Well the enzymes get destroyed and some of the nutrients are
destroyed. B2 riboflavin is destroyed.
Vitamin C is completely destroyed.
Now, when you think of it, someone.
B12. What?
B12 also. B12B6 So some really key
nutrients are completely destroyed, others are
diminished. But let's just think of somebody
driving camels across the desert.
The vitamin C in the milk is what's going to keep them from
getting scurvy. Yeah, not eating oranges.
Yeah, I mean it's, you're getting the all the vitamins
that were in the grass or in the foliage that they ate.
We, we can't digest leaves like those kind of leaves, we can't
digest grass. But the animals have 3 or 4
stomachs and they do it for us and they give us this beautiful,
delicious, I don't know, concoction of grass in the milk
with, with fat, with fat so that you are digesting the protein.
Sorry but could be horseshoe back to the original comment
that well that's because we shouldn't be drinking milk from
an animal. Well, that if you want to, you
know, I would say suit yourself, but I wouldn't.
I don't think there's any religion that tells you not to
eat drink. An.
Animal Why don't we drink human milk?
Well, some people do. You know, John D Rockefeller
drank human milk. He got it donated, or he bought
it and he drank raw human milk. He thought that was part of the
reason he lived so long. It's not a, it's not a thought
that I like, but it is nonetheless A valid question.
Human milk though, and sometimes they drink human milk up to the
age of 5, so I mean, there's certainly nothing.
And it's highly nutritious. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. If the mother's eating well,
yeah. I mean, how do you, how do you
push back when you have a system, a state imposed system
that is against raw milk? We have just done it
persistently, quietly. We've never given up.
We've created a very strong demand.
What's interesting to me in the early days of this, the state
regulators were always coming after these little farms and
trying to shut them down or taking their inventory and
throwing it away. It was terribly wasteful.
And they stopped doing that now because they were we, we
embarrassed them. We, we, we got in the news, we
got on the Internet, we came to the trials and testified and
they, they just were very embarrassed by this.
And it's just stopped. All of this harassment has
stopped. Raw powdered milk for for
babies. I don't know.
You can't do powdered milk raw, I don't think, or.
Formula, shall we say? Yeah.
So there's several problems with formula, but one is that the
milk is highly processed, powdered, and that destroys the
proteins. Also, they only put, there's
very few formulas that have whole milk.
They put skim milk in the formula.
And now if you're feeding formula to animals, the third
ingredient that's listed on the label is animal fat because they
know that these animals can't survive or thrive without animal
fat. But human babies don't get any
animal fat in their formula. They skim milk and vegetable
oils. It's and that's just because the
skim milk is cheaper. If you do drink skim or low fat
milk, I'm guessing you need to counter that thing with a lot
more saturated fat in your diet. Yeah, so eat a lot of butter.
Which begs the question, why are you?
Why are you taking the butter out of the milk?
You know. Yes.
But here's the thing, the it's my back door.
The the industry has figured out how to maximise their profit on
the butter fat and they don't make a lot of profit if they
just sell butter or if they sell whole milk.
If they take the butter fat out and put it in ice cream, the
they make five times as much on the butter fat.
So what they want you to do is be on this horrible low fat diet
all day long and by 8:00 in the evening you're just craving fat
and you go to the freezer and get the half gallon of ice cream
and you eat the whole thing. That's what they want you to do
because that's where they make the money is an ice cream.
Do you think those authorities in government know the truth or
they're just being paid off? The accountants in the dairy
industry know the truth. It's all it's all about
maximising profit off of this this product's milk.
The other thing, so the things that make the most profit are
ice cream cheese and whey powder.
And whey powder is the you know what they do with the whey from
making cheese, and that's extremely profitable.
Bodybuilders love it. Yeah, they shouldn't be.
Drinking, taking it, it's, it's very toxic to the kidneys, but
it's pushed on the bodybuilders, you know, people have schemes,
sales schemes and it's pushed on these people so.
You might be at an advantage now with Bobby Kennedy in his
position. Bobby drinks raw milk.
In fact, he's we've supplied him with raw milk a few times.
Yeah. And yeah.
So do you think he's going to? Attack this or is the Is the
dairy industry too strong? See this is all.
First of all, this is regulated by the health departments or the
agriculture departments in the individual states.
It's not regulated by the federal government.
So all he can do is encourage it and but there's nothing legal
that he can do to kind of free up raw milk.
And actually, Jeremy, we don't need to.
We've really accomplished what we set out to accomplish.
Just for example in. Maryland.
Here where I am, I got the first pet milk permit and now there's
about four or five dozen in the whole state.
There's raw milk everywhere now in Maryland.
But did you say, did you say pet?
Milk. Yeah, Dogs and cats.
OK, so it's still not quite. There yet it's I mean, you still
have to put it under the guise of animals.
Well. We haven't changed the milk.
It's a loophole, there's no question.
It's a loophole that we've taken advantage of, but and that's
because we could not get the cooperation of the Department of
Health. They they, you know, stymied us
every every, every step of the way.
So we tried something else. Does pasteurisation.
Only occur with cow's milk. What about goat's milk?
Well, they they can. Pasteurise any kind of milk.
There's not a lot of goat goat milk consumed.
I I've never seen goat milk in the stores.
I guess. I guess there's a.
Little bit, but yeah, they make goat cheese with the goat milk.
I'm not a fan. Though I find the.
Taste just a bit too sharp. Yeah, the battle against.
Pasteurisation. I mean, how old is this?
Maybe like a century. So for the yeah, the first.
Mandatory pasteurisation was in 1913 in New York City and there
were people there who were in favour of raw milk.
They thought it was healthier, they thought it was just a safe.
But the argument they used was, well we don't have the money to
inspect all these little farms. If we had just the pasteurising
plants, we could just inspect there.
And that was the reason given for making pasteurisation
mandatory. And I had my own inspector when
we first started out. She said, Sally, we, we just
can't afford to regulate and inspect all these little
dairies. Then that's why we don't want to
do this. So it's just the, it's, I don't
want to say the laziness of the bureaucrats, but it's, it's all
it comes back down to money. And how can they afford to
inspect all these small dairies that you would have if you were
doing raw milk? But for the.
Entirety of human existence. They they've been drinking raw
milk. That's right.
We're making cheese.
Or fermenting it in some way? Is it safe to freeze?
Raw milk, yes. People who can't get out to a
dairy very often, we advise them to buy what they need and freeze
it and the enzymes are maintained.
What What we don't recommend is freeze drying because even
though there's no heat involved, there's a study that showed that
the proteins are just as warped and distorted with the freeze
drying as with heat treatment. How do you?
Verify the source of your of the safety of your raw milk.
Do you just have to kind of do do a lot of homework?
Yeah. So the raw.
Milk should be coming from a farmer who's milking his own
cows. OK.
And there are now very accurate tests you can do on the farm.
We test every day. We test our milk every day and
we test for what's called coliform, which is the benign
bacteria. But if you have a high coliform
count, you might have some pathogens.
Well, our counts are 01/2, I mean.
If it gets any higher. I know that something hasn't
been cleaned and we fix it, but to me this is a game changer.
This this coliform test because you can keep track of what's
going on with your milk and, and, but I mean, OK, so let's.
Just talk about the layman. If you are just visiting a farm,
I mean and you eyeballing, what are some of the things you
should look out for? Well, you should look for
cleanliness. You should look for Do they
test? Do they clean out their parlour
floor every day? Not a lot of farmers do, yeah.
So they should and. Taste how?
How long does it last in the refrigerator?
It should last two weeks. I heard the other way around.
That that if it lasts too long, that's not a good sign.
Well, because then because it because then.
Because then it's got additives potentially.
Well, it should last. Without additives it should last
because it's really clean, right, right, right.
OK. Right, I got you so.
The way in which the cows. Themselves eat also does that
make a difference yes so we. Call this a campaign for real
milk. And by real we mean full fat,
non pasteurised and pasture fed. Grass fed.
Because grass is the natural food for a cow.
She's uniquely designed to digest grass.
Grass and Clover so. Our cows are out on pasture all
the time now. At this time of year there's no
pasture, but we give them hay when they come in, we give them
a little bit of grain and we give them some alfalfa pellets.
And the actual milking. Itself, is our machines fine?
Yeah, we, yes, we use. Machines.
But as long as they're clean. Oh yes, we have a.
Way of cleaning them. They get cleaned every day.
And the cows. Not not only grass fed, but they
should be fairly free of antibiotics and other
injections. Oh absolutely.
And there's no. Need for them we, we've never
used antibiotics. We use homoeopathic herbs and
and things like that. But if the cow is producing very
thick milk, we take her off the line and we let the calves drink
from her. So I think what I'm what I'm.
Yeah. So the picture I'm trying to
paint you is it's not just the milk that's in the bottle, but
it's the it's the it's, it's the lead up to that that bottle
well. We we milk into cans.
I mean, there's nothing that touches the milk and there's no
exposure to air between the the teeth and the can.
That's it, Just goes right in. And then we.
Put the can. In a kind of.
Cradle and we first of all we philtre the milk and pour it
through a philtre, and then we put the can in a kind of cradle
and. Bottle that way.
And then it's immediately chilled.
So the exposure to air is possibly 10 seconds and then the
top goes on and then it's chilled.
And what about heating milk That what on the.
Heating. Milk on the stove or in the
microwave or whatever? Well, you shouldn't use a.
Microwave. You know that you're trying to
trap me here. You shouldn't use microwave
because it destroys the food if you want to heat it.
Like set it in a container C set in simmering water and heat it
up. You can go to 110° but no
higher. And so if you're you want raw
yoghurt, you don't go fast. 110 Yeah, I'm asking that.
Actually, I mean, I was being a bit facetious, but with our with
our little boy, we still warm up milk, but we warm it up in
water. Yes, right, right.
And it's still you can touch it, yes.
I mean, it's not, it's not hot. It's not hot, it's just warm.
So if you think of Fahrenheit, the Fahrenheit system 0 is an
extremely cold day and 100 is a very hot day, right?
Can you drink more raw milk than you can pasteurised milk?
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah, you can drink raw milk exclusively and in fact it's
called the raw milk diet or the milk cure.
And that was done in hospitals back in the early part of the
1900's. The Mayo Clinic with a very
famous hospital today, started off by administering the milk
cure and it was very successful. The diet was just about four
quarts of raw milk sipped slowly throughout the day, like 1/2 a
cup every every half hour or something.
And it was very successful for detoxification and for
nourishing, very successful with kidney problems.
Help people lose weight. It treated.
Cancer with the raw milk cure. So yes, you can drink an.
Exclusive milk diet. I think another benefit of
pointing out the benefits of raw milk and knowing that the shops
don't want to to stock it is that it kind of encourages you
to support local. You know, go and find a farmer
yes. I mean there's a subliminal
positive net benefit there because the farmer will be much
happier with you coming direct to him.
Yes, yes, but if you. Can't you know, like, let's just
say California, My daughter lives in California.
You can go to a shop, a food store, and buy raw milk in
California. They don't all really.
Wow. And there are.
About 13 or. 14 states in America where you can buy raw
milk in the store so. It's all.
It's all over the. Map about what's possible then
for ours, the pet milk, they have to either come to our on
farm store or we can sell it at farmers markets.
But there's a weird kind. Of subliminal propaganda going
on here. Because if they say no, no, it's
fine, you can buy raw milk for your animals.
Yeah. What are they saying?
What are they? What are they actually saying?
They're saying, well, we don't care.
Safe and healthy for animals. Yes.
Yeah, well. The implication?
Is that? The animals have a stronger
immune system or something. Yeah, that's the implication.
It's just ridiculous if you. Think about it for more than 10
seconds. Oh yeah, the whole thing is.
Ridiculous. But there it's been the, well,
the subject of intense propaganda for so long that most
people just accept this that raw milk is dangerous without, you
know, without really thinking about it.
OK, so the moral. Of the story Sally is what?
Don't believe the government, especially when it comes to
food. It's not just the raw milk, but
you know, they've been on this relentless campaign against
butter, against animal fats, against lard, against tallow for
over 100 years. And this is basically destroying
our children, destroying everybody really, because you
absolutely need these animal fats.
And especially for growing children, you, you need them for
normal growth. I mean, butter is the fat in all
mammalian milk for the growth and development of mammals.
And we're mammals, and the idea that children shouldn't have
butter and animal fat is. Very.
Destructive. It's why we're seeing such high
rates of infertility. It's why we're seeing children
grow up and not be and be confused about what sex they are
because they haven't been able to make the proper hormones,
because they haven't gotten the nutrients that you get in animal
fats. It's been a disaster.
It's. It's been a complete disaster
and thank goodness there are people trying to turn this
around. You know, in the last few
months, butter consumption has really gone up in America
because of Bobby and, and the work of many others.
Just trying to get it into people's heads, you know, and
also, I mean, I've found. That cooking in butter and pig
fat is so much tastier. Yeah, yeah.
So I I don't use we. Don't use.
We don't use. Any seed oils at all?
Yeah, no. And then neither do.
We we just use olive oil and that's a fruit oil.
So coconut oil, palm oil and olive oil, those are fruit oils
and they're much more stable than seed oils.
And the seed oils were not in the human diet before 1890 when
they developed the stainless steel roller press.
So they're completely new to the diet and they they create a real
imbalance of the types of fats on the cellular level and they
don't provide the nutrients that the body is expecting to get
from the animal fats. I'll give you an example.
A little boy loves sausage, so we'll easily give him a sausage
in the morning that's all chopped up scrambled eggs.
And And even. Look, we don't, we can't really
buy raw milk. It's very difficult to find
here. But he does get full fat cow's
milk and he is so healthy. Yeah.
I mean.
I have a grandson who's 14 months raised on raw milk and
he's just amazing meeting all his milestones.
Never been sick. Perfectly normal in every way.
What? What greater gift can you?
Give your children and and to give you the your child that
gift you need to think things through and if.
Do your own research on this. Subject you go to realmilk.com,
our website, and we have lots of articles there, but you have to
learn not to believe everything you hear.
I was changed. In terms of my dietary
trajectory, oh, I don't know. Two in the early, early 2000s by
a gentleman by the name of Gary Taubes.
Do you know? Oh, Gary.
Yeah. Yeah, you.
Know we had him to give a little talk and we all went to a
restaurant afterwards and nobody ate any potatoes.
And again. Gary, listen, meat.
Meat is a very healthy food, but I just think you can overdo it
and if you don't get enough fat with the meat you're going to
get in trouble. And also I.
Tell you, you have a little boy, you try raising your boy on an
all meat diet. They're going to go out and
cheat. They need they need some carbs.
You need to make dessert for them every now and then.
You know that the sweet things need to come from the parents.
Can anybody? Honestly, in their heart of
hearts tell me that there is anything better than bacon and
eggs in the morning. Exactly.
Exactly what a wonderful breakfast and bacon is a healthy
food. It's full of B vitamins and the
fat and bacon is the most big fat is the most similar to human
fat with any type of fat. And it's but it's just so.
Delicious if you do it in butter or lard.
And remember how they did, how they demonised it in the 80s.
Oh yeah, yeah. Because they wanted to sell
vegetable oils, everything was low fat.
Yeah. But you really weren't eating.
Low fat? Not if you were eating ice cream
and you were putting spreads on your toast.
You know, but ice cream. Is full of sugar Well.
Of course, horrible. That's not the right way to get
your animal fats. You want to get your animal
fats, you know, in meat and put on vegetables, maybe put on
potatoes, bacon with your scrambled eggs.
Then you won't crave sugar. But generally keep those.
Carbohydrates low, yeah. 20% of calories I think would be a
maximum. Because I mean also if.
You are fully carnival. Nobody will ever invite you
around to the house because I know you won't eat anything.
Yeah, I know. I know it's a very boring diet.
Yeah. It's not the way we were meant
to eat. We're really meant to enjoy our
food and and not. Stray too.
Far between extremes, you. Know you know when Jesus?
Cured people, he said. Go and sin no more.
And that word sin is doesn't mean that you've done something
horrible. The word is harmatria, which
means it's an archery term which means to miss the mark, to not
be right in the centre. And I think people are missing
the mark. They're either way to carnivore
or plant based or junk food. None of that is where we need to
be. We need to be in the centre,
centre ourselves on good wholesome food with plenty of
fat, home cooked and delicious. Did you ever?
Read the China study I've. Written quite a bit about the
China study so. You know, I'm probably.
One of the few people in the world who's actually looked at
the printed version of the China study.
Because it was printed on very large format, like 12 by 18.
You can't copy it in a copier and it's in libraries.
This is the data that they collected and it's never been
posted online and so I never. This data is not posted online,
so you can't work with it and 1st.
Of all, it was a. Terrible study with lots of
variables. It was done in very poor
districts. It wasn't really the way most
Chinese eat, but Mary Anning and I actually analysed this data
and I wrote an article about it called the China study or
Chinese Diet. They really didn't find much of
it. Just give you an example.
The highest egg consumption was in Singapore and now that was
also the place with the highest rate of tuberculosis.
So old, what's his name? Author says well, egg
consumption was associated with tuberculosis, but it's
meaningless association. They eat more eggs in Singapore
because they're wealthier and they have more Western influence
and they have higher rates of TB because it's a very polluted
industrial city. There's no correlation between
eating eggs and getting TB. I'm.
Trying to think of his name. The author.
Yeah. Yeah.
Colin Campbell. Colin Campbell there.
There we go. Yeah.
But what I don't understand. I've debated him.
Oh, really? Yeah, on, you know, on a.
Podcast. What I don't understand though.
Is. I mean, I've been to China and
also Hong Kong and they eat a lot of rice.
Eat a lot of rice, but Hong. Kong is the highest meat eaters
in the world. The highest meat diet in the
world is in Hong Kong. They.
Cook in. Duck fat and pork fat.
At least they used. To.
They're pushing the vegetable oils now.
It's a diet that had lots of meat in it.
But also I mean I. Guess you could argue their rice
is less processed than western rice.
No, they put TALF. Not.
Really. They.
Put talf talf and powder Talf and my colleague Mary Annie
thought this was why there was such high rates of stomach
cancer in China. India also, I believe.
Lots of rice, yeah. And stomach cancer, I think.
Also the highest rates of diabetes I believe now in India,
I mean. They don't do this today, but in
the old days the rice, they, they mix the rice with the
lentils and they fermented it, you know, soaked it in water at
least overnight. And then they grounded up and
they made their idlier doses and a little pancakes with this
combination of rice and lentils, but it was fermented.
So what is? Causing the obesity crisis.
Just too much sugar. And too many carbs and low
thyroid function and thyroid needs vitamin A and people
aren't getting enough vitamin A the.
Addictive Substances. That they're putting in the
foods MSG, MSG. Destroys the hypothalamus.
And the hypothalamus is the gland that submits that emits
appetite suppressing hormones. There haven't there was a very
interesting study they did in China on MSG and they this was
rural Chinese families. They weren't eating junk food
and some families put a lot of MSG in their food and others
didn't. You know, you can buy MSG in in
little bottles in China. And the families that use a lot
of MSG were definitely heavier. It's a very strong correlation.
Would you say fats? More important than?
Protein. Yeah, absolutely.
I. Absolutely would.
So the way we look at it, the diet is no more than 20% of
calories as protein and even less when you get older.
But for growing children, yes, and athletes, but no more than
20% carbs, about 20 to maybe 40% if you're an athlete or growing
child. And then the rest fat.
So this is a diet that's going to be 60 to 70% calories as fat.
Now this is calories. This is not by weight because
that's much more caloric I drink.
Ground coffee with cream? What about cream, by the way?
We haven't spoken about that. Cream is a wonderful.
Food. We we make cream on our farm and
real cream is hard to get, but yeah, it's wonderful food.
It's very rich. Yeah, very rich.
It'll offset the bad effects of the coffee.
Oh, you're not a coffee fan? No, I do enjoy.
My my ground coffee early in the morning when the sun's coming
up, though. Well, I'm sure you do.
I'm sure you do. But really, your body should be
able to wake up and get going without coffee.
Just a glass of glass of raw. Milk.
I was a coffee. Drinker Yeah, I drink a glass of
raw milk in the morning or or a couple of a mug of broth,
chicken broth. But I was a very sick woman in
about my mid about my 30s and I went to this holistic Dr and he
had me do a foods food log. Of everything I ate.
And he looked at it and he said, you know you will never be well
if you don't stop drinking coffee.
And. So that was a challenge for me
and it's the hardest thing I ever did in my life.
It took me about a month of headaches but once.
I got over. That my health just blossomed,
all my rashes went away, my fatigue went away, my sometimes
lack of emotional balance that just settled right down.
It was the best thing I ever did.
But I mean, what is it? Then about the coffee, is it the
caffeine? Because then what about decaf?
Oh, you could probably. Decaf, all of this, a little bit
of caffeine in decaf, but to see what the caffeine does is it
it's like a hammer to your adrenal glands and your adrenal
glands start pouring out adrenaline and cortisol and that
keeps you in a state of fight or flights.
And we were not designed to be in fight or flight all the time.
You need the rest and digest hormones and eventually your
adrenal glands get tired. It's called adrenal fatigue and
it gets harder and harder, first of all to get into fight and
flight or or to come back down to rest and digest.
And I read something very interesting recently.
If your body can't produce enough cortisol, the adrenal
glands are worn out. You know what it does?
It makes cortisol out of testosterone, so it lowers your.
Yes, it lowers. Your Oh no, that's not good.
Yeah, yeah. I also find that.
And it's difficult to obviously pinpoint this, but I'm fairly
convinced that coffee gives me heartburn.
Yes, it's. Possible.
Yeah. Now the heartburn is from not
having enough stomach acid so I don't.
Know what the caffeine is? Doing.
But yeah, you need to. So that's interesting.
Eat more salt and. By the way, high meat diet you
do need more salt. You're you're, you're.
Heartburn. Is because you.
Don't have enough stomach acid and the stomach acid is what
tells that valve to close so the stomach acid doesn't come up
your oesophagus. But why do doctors?
Say you've got too much stomach acid yeah, they're they're wrong
They. Just don't understand it.
It's not enough stomach acid. But then how does an antacid?
Work well it. Lowers your stomach acid Most
people still get heartburn and because this has to take.
Them all the time, those those drugs.
Have terrible side effects. For one thing, they have a lot
of aluminium in them. Yeah, well, I, I took for about
15 years until I stopped in 20/20/20, I think.
Proton pump inhibitors. Oh yeah, they're terrible.
Drugs, omeprazole I think. Was was the main 1?
So what? You can do to eat.
More salt because you make. Hydrochloric.
Acid out of the chlorine in salt, but you can also take a
bathing hydrochloric acid supplement.
I've got a couple of my children on those.
I have three out of four of my children are, you know, driven,
ambitious, and I have one child who's very relaxed.
They, he doesn't need any of those things.
Hydrochloric acid. I I've seen, I've seen those
pills. You can take those.
I don't like the idea of taking a pill though.
Well, I mean, it's better than. Protein pump inhibitors, yeah,
for sure. But I.
Mean just normal salt, putting more salt in your food.
Yes, that's where I'd. Start and then if that doesn't
work, then I would take a hydrochloric acid.
Eat butter. That's what I always say.
Eat butter. It's the healthiest fat on the
planet. It's got so many good things in
it. You know, one of the things in
butter is something called a rachidonic acid.
And what do we do with arachidonic acid?
We do a lot of things, but one of the things we do with it is
we make our own endogenous cannabinoids.
Our bodies are designed to have marijuana being produced all the
time. We have receptors for this, and
this makes us relaxed but motivated.
That's what you want. You want to be motivated but not
hyper. You want to be relaxed and
motivated. And that's what we get from the
arachidonic acid in animal fats, especially butter.
Butter is also a unique source of something called butyric
acid, which is very important for colon health and for
digestion. If it's grass fed, butter it.
Will have conjugated linoleic acid in it, which is the
strongest anti cancerous substance it's ever been tested.
It really protects you against cancer.
So there's just as many wonderful things in butter that
we can't get elsewhere. And to me that that if you don't
do anything else, eat butter. Butter is better.
Before.
Any accusations come your way, you're not receiving any kind of
funding from the meat industry and the Weston A Price.
Foundation doesn't receive that kind of funding and I don't get
any salary for running the Weston A Price Foundation.
I would vector your listeners to our website, westonaprice.org
and hopefully they'll become members and receive our
quarterly journal, which is very popular, become a part of our
family. We also have realmilk.com for
finding raw milk. I'm not sure there's any
listings for South Africa, I'm afraid, but I know that there
are raw milk farms in Africa, maybe not in South Africa.
No, no, we've got them. We've got them, yeah.
We've got them that you just. Have to, you have to fight.
You have to fight for the animal label.
That's that's how it works, Yeah.
Well then. That's fine.
But yeah, and my website, isnourishingtraditions.com, I
haven't posted it in a long time because I'm working on a book,
but there's a lot of interesting stuff there.
I. Will also say that Western Price
website changed my views on polio back in the day.
Interesting, interesting. Yes, polio was caused by lead
arsenate and DDT. Yeah, pesticides.
They're both nerve toxins. Yeah, there was no virus.
There's no virus. And the vaccine didn't change
anything. What changed?
It was they were banned. And then so they started selling
these pesticides in places like India where they kept having
polio, you know? And it's it's that.
Article that I found on the Western Price website that led
me to a book called The Moth in the Iron Lung.
Yes, yes. By Forrest Moretti, and he's
just written a book on raw milk, by the way.
Ah OK, I must contact him. Yeah.
Yeah, he'd be a good one to interview.
Yeah, I have spoken to him. Before he's very quiet though.
Yes, he's. He's a.
He's a he's. Like a he's a hermit.
OK. Sally Morrell, it's been an
absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining me in the
trenches for having me, Jeremy.