Oh my gosh, it's happening. This is really happening now.
It's like I'm compelled to do this.
I, I don't even know what's come over me.
How can you look at hope and think we're far right?
I just don't, you know, you look at all of our social media, you
look at the website, you look at our ethos, our, our values.
It's it's just. A ruse.
Katie, Joe. Whereas I never ever was afraid.
Ever. KJ.
Yes. Welcome to my garden, The
secret. Garden.
Beautiful. I've never been here before.
Yeah. No, you haven't, have you?
No. But it did to this area.
I've never been and. You had a bit of synchronicity
on the way as well. I did it's it's.
Just why you were late. It's there's a few reasons.
Because I got. Lost.
I always get lost. It's fine.
I'm used to it. I just go everything.
I, I, I arrive when I'm meant to arrive.
And actually, if I hadn't got lost and, you know, taking the
journey I took, I would never have bumped into Katie Ann.
And that's just the universe telling me that I'm I'm, I'm on
the right path. Yeah, are you?
Do you believe in fight? I believe that we have to just
surrender sometimes to yeah, to the universe basically just
guiding you and supporting you and synchronicities will happen
along the way. Yeah.
And they and as you, as they happen, it kind of it's, it's,
it's more sort of confirmation that you're on the right path.
So let's well, I was going to say, have you found that with
hope, with hope, the whole hope project?
Have you found that synchronicities have of help,
help too long on that path? But before, before you answer
that, really for those who we should talk a little bit about
hope, because I guess that's it's what you're known yes, for
and it's and it is a big passion of yours.
So tell everyone a little bit about hope.
It's A and then we'll get back into the synchronicity.
I suppose it, it is my life to a certain extent because it, it
means so much to me and to my family.
You know, it's, we're, we're all involved in hope, but especially
Tommy, you know, if I didn't have hope, I don't know what
Tommy's life would be like, right?
It would be very, very different.
So for those who don't know that much about Hope, there might be
one or two people out there who don't, so give a little.
I know, I'm just presuming everybody.
Knows about it well, because it's so much a part of our
lives, isn't it? And yeah.
It is weird, isn't it? When you have something like
that that's, you know, it's, it's just like the norm and then
people don't know about it and you're like, what?
Yeah, so there'll, there'll definitely be people watching
who either won't know what hope is or won't know much about
hope. So give people a little overview
of of how it started, what? It is, yeah.
So I suppose we need to go right back to 2000 and 19 really, and
the announcement of the lockdowns.
And you know, previously to that, you know, the, the, the
even the talk of a lockdown happening was just something
that sent me, my mum, my sister, my auntie, all of us that were
aware of the agenda, shall we say, just spiralling into, Oh my
gosh, it's happening. This is really happening now in
our lifetime, in our lifetime, which is just was just a really
weird thing because I'd heard David Icke speaking about it for
years and years and years. And obviously had been down many
rabbit holes myself already down, you know, the big pharma
rabbit hole, vaccination rabbit hole, 911 rabbit hole, the
chemotherapy, chemotherapy rabbit hole, just so many things
that I've been researching and knew about already.
So we just all immediately said, right, OK, we've got to do
something. It was just like I had to, you
know, I felt like I had to be proactive.
I couldn't just sit back and just watch things happening.
So my mum and myself and a couple of friends decided that
we would start a cooperative. Before that, actually, I'd
started a Facebook page with a friend called Hastings.
Stop and think where we were just, you know, encouraging
people to question things and, you know, a nice.
A nice name actually. Hastings, stop stopping the
thing. Because it's, it's quite gentle,
isn't it? It's quite feminine.
Like the, you know, if that was a bloke setting up a Facebook
page, it'd be like, you know, Armageddon approaches call to
arms. Also not the you know, the shits
hit the fan. Yeah, the shits hit the fan.
Yeah. So that's that's nice.
But we had, we had a really nasty character join the page
and start, you know, antagonising people and it just
all got horrible as social media does.
So I decided to put, just put messages out and said if you're
really serious about, you know, making a change and doing
something then and building community, then meet me on the
beach. So I started meeting people
illegally on the beach and in at the back of downstairs of a cafe
in the centre of Hastings. That's where I met amazing
people like Chris Coverdale, who, Oh yeah, I absolutely adore
and. Yeah, I've not met him, but he
always comes across. You should definitely paint
Chris. You know what?
I hadn't even thought of Chris, but that would be brilliant.
Yeah. He's lovely.
Yeah. So, yeah, so that, and then the
meetings just grew and grew and grew.
And throughout that time, it was very exciting, shall I say, to,
to, to meet whilst, you know, having to hide your cars and,
you know, pull the blinds down. And it was just, it was just
such a crazy time. It was really, really bonkers,
you know, with that. And then, you know, all of the
protests and the marches. But getting, getting back to
hope, we, I met Matt and Sadie and they're four gorgeous
children on the beach. And our friendship just grew
from there. We started to educate the
children together, you know, go for lovely walks in the woods.
We had a friend's apple farm, Martin's Apple farm that we used
to go to and and do forest school with the children there.
We had the police called on us and we had to play hide and seek
with the children. Mad times for being outside so.
Some children really suffered with that, but some really
thrived, didn't they? Yes.
You know, I think some children really, really relished that
excitement. But I know that a lot of
children didn't. They didn't like it.
I think it, I think it depends on what sort of environment
they're in. So if, if, if your parents are
panicking and being very, you know, afraid and fearful, then
they're going to pick up on that.
Whereas I never ever was afraid ever.
And I know that sounds really, I don't know, I'm not trying to
sound big headed or anything, but I just, I never had a fear
at that at that time. I never, I never do have any
fear of, of, of, of them and what, what they want to try and,
you know, force us into. It's just not something that's
ever crossed my mind. So, yeah.
So we, so we started educating at Sadie's house, you know,
other parents houses, smuggling the children in and it was
fairly exciting really. Then the Co-op fell apart.
Really. It's it's, it's one of those
things that with a cooperative, everybody gets a say and, and I
know that sounds like true democracy and I suppose.
It is. It's democracy.
But that's a big question, isn't it?
That's a big question. You know, if you have a room
full of 100 people and you're talking about one topic, let's
say, should we allow vaccinated people into the Co-op or should
we not allow vaccinated people into the Co-op, for example?
Every single person has to have their say and naturally, you
know, even though the point has been made by someone else,
everyone will want their, you know, their their moment to
speak. And, and so meetings would go on
and on for hours and hours and hours with the same people going
away and doing the doing all the work.
Yeah, you know, it's it's. And a lot of hot air.
And a lot of hot air and a lot of going round and round in
circles and never really achieving anything.
So for me, when, when the Co-op was, was shut down, I, I, I, I
didn't want to go back to that model.
I knew it wasn't really going to help.
So we went for the CIC model instead, which is a community
interest company. Oh, OK.
So we can we, you know, myself and Sadie, we are the directors,
but we have a core team, as you know, that really are at the
centre of making decisions. And we always ask if they're big
decisions. We always ask for, you know,
people's opinions. But ultimately the buck lies
with me and Sadie and it has to be like that for for us to get
anything done, for us to achieve anything, you know?
I think that's the case with, well, with a lot of freedom
people. They have this sort of utopian
idea that if we're all aligned, we can all come together and
create these communities. But actually, I think like any
good business, it's usually one or two people's idea and they
have the vision and then they find people who want to support
that vision and then it just becomes a solid thing.
Whereas if you have just like you're saying, if you have so
many different voices all saying, well, it should be like
this. It should be like nothing ever
gets done. No business ever succeeded like
that. And I'm not saying business is
the be all and end all, but it's the it's the mark of, you know,
if you're profit driven and you know, you want to succeed at
something, that's the model that you it's usually one at the most
two really. Isn't it like a partnership?
Yes, yes, I mean. Matt, Matt's definitely there as
well. You know, I, I he's like a.
But then he's in a relationship with Sadie, so there's a whole.
So they're they're they come as a pair really, you know, but
it's a it's a, it's a, it's a really weird thing.
You mentioned profit there, but both, both of us are really bad
at business. We're terrible at business and
it's not obviously what has driven us to create hope.
And I think that has its advantages and disadvantages.
Its advantages is that it's it's coming totally from heart.
There's no, there's never been off.
We do this, we can make loads of money.
It's that's just never, ever ended our minds.
We can vouch for that and I know how the how it works.
But it's but, yeah, but I'm sure we've made plenty of silly
mistakes along the way as well. You know, we're learning as we
go along. Nobody's given.
Nobody's given us a handbook and gone.
This is how you build community, especially in these times when
community is pretty alien to people.
You know, we're not, we're not used to that.
We're not even used to really existing in big families
anymore. So it's, it's a whole new way of
learning to live and cooperate with people and yeah, be, be
understanding and compassionate. And especially at these trying,
in these trying times. Everyone's going through it big
time. There's everyone's struggling at
the moment. I think it's tough.
So, but it was, it was a, it was a when I never forget my husband
when I was when I was meeting people on the beach, he said,
said to you, it's like, it's like you think, Jesus, it's
like, no, no, it's not that at all.
I can't I it's like I'm compelled to do this.
I, I don't even know what's come over me.
I'm literally just half to do it.
And it was such a stressful time.
Actually in our house. It was a really stressful time
because that's all I could put my energy into was, was, was,
yeah, it was. That was building community,
making a change, doing something.
Yeah. So is that something that you
took my focus? Lastly, you still, because I
know you're very driven and for example, when we asked if you'd
like to join the band, you know, it's a big consideration because
you do so much, you know, you had to consider did you have the
time to do it? Well, luckily, luckily for us
that you thought you had. But is that an ongoing concern
juggling? I know you've got a very
supportive family. I've got a star.
My family's amazing, absolutely amazing.
I, you know, I couldn't do they deserve all the credit really,
because there's just no way I could achieve anything I've
achieved without them. So they do deserve all of the
credit. But I, oh, I, I, it was straight
away I was like, yes, I want to be in Victorious.
Absolutely love Victorious. And it's been so lovely already
that we've, you know, I've sung, you know, guest songs with you.
So it felt like, you know, something that would be a
natural progression. Yeah.
So yeah, going back to Hope, how did the vision form of actually
a place for home education because we haven't actually said
that to people. So what let, let, OK, what is
hope in its current form? What is it?
Hope is Sussex, Hope Sussex Community is literally that.
So I would say the site operates as a community centre and we
have our home educators, home educating families that come and
use the facility. They, they have, we have classes
there with independent tutors, amazing independent tutors who
are all really happy to be out of the education system.
And so they, they're, they're taking classes and also just
socialising the children. It's also, it's also about the
adults being able to chat with like minded people and, and
again, feel like you're putting into something, you're making a
difference. You know, you're, you're, you're
leaving a legacy behind. Is, is how I feel.
And we have the best people there.
We do, we really do. And that's and you know, and,
and there are obviously people that come that weekly.
We have a health clinic PHA, which again is so important for
people to be able to get low cost treatments.
So really, really grateful to all of those practitioners that
are part of the PHA that'd. Be where you'd get your latest
shot, is it? Is that right?
Yeah, yeah. Get your latest shot of glowed
or silver or what else is there. There's hydroxychloroquine, the
natural stuff, I think so. Yeah.
So there's there's the PHA. And again, I'd just love to
expand every single branch really.
Our allotment is another one. The food side of things is
really important, but that's run by a real dedicated core group.
And you know, they work their butts off.
They really do. And it's looking amazing down
there. So we're, we're looking like
we're going to have a really fruitful year harvest this year.
So there's that and there's, there's the event side, which
really, I mean, I absolutely adore the event side, but it is
a constant juggle for myself and Sadie because the, the running
of the homemade side and then the running of the events side
are both really, really demanding.
And we're constantly going, OK, we have to run the events to
bring the money in. The homemade side is what's is
at the core really. It's the reason we started Hope
Sussex. So for us, we, it, it is, it's,
it's big, it's a lot, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of work, but
it's, it's, there's, there's I can't, there's, I can't think of
doing anything else. There's, there's no, there's no
other option really, if you like.
And the rewards are massive. The rewards are huge.
When you see the children having a wonderful time at Hope,
playing, being free, you know, that's, that's, that's just, you
know. Well, it it.
It's makes my heart just swell. It's just the best thing.
And that's what it's all about. And especially my Tommy, when I
see him, I hope, you know, having having the best time and
being accepted for who he is. So for Tommy, if, if, if we
didn't have hope, his options would be mainstream.
And I mean, Jake, Can you imagine Tommy in mainstream
school? He's 13.
He's 14 this year. That means he would be, you
know, nearly at the end of first year in secondary school that it
would just kill him. I know it would.
It would be he would be bullied, he would, he wouldn't cope with
it. He just wouldn't be able to.
So the other option is a special needs school.
And he's he's not stupid. He's not, you know, I think that
would. Just wouldn't be.
Right, either that just wouldn't work for him either.
I think he just needs to be accepted for who he is in a
loving environment and to be able to learn at his own pace,
which he cannot hope. So it's, it's the biggest
blessing for, for us as a family.
Yeah, it's a very, it's a very natural way of of community,
isn't it? Hope it's it's very relaxing in
some ways, although there are structured, you know, the tutors
come in. But in a way, I mean, I can say
for Mackie as well that it's all the stuff around it really,
which is just so nourishing for everyone, adults and children,
in a way that, you know, we've put off coming for a long time.
Rachel was you must come to hope.
And it's too far away, yes. It is far, I know.
But you know, the rewards have just been incredible and on so
many different levels, it does feel that, you know, when you
set something up, it just it just has its own momentum and
people just come who are right. And I can imagine Netherfield
becoming this hub of. The locals, yeah.
I know, I know there's challenges with the locals.
I've heard some things and you know, people get in the wrong
end of the stick and and listening to the media too much
and you know. We've all experienced that,
haven't we? I think we've got things.
Unfortunately, those people probably won't be listening to
this and and getting the the true picture.
That's the problem, isn't it? People get stuck in their
perceptions. I mean, you can't.
I don't know how you can blame parents for wanting to protect
their children from what's happening.
At the end of the day, that's all we're doing as parents is
going. I want to be the best parent I
can be, you know? And I know that something is
deeply wrong with society and the way society is going, I know
something's deeply wrong with the education system.
I don't want my child to be subjected to any of that.
I want to protect them. That's surely a natural instinct
for a parent so. But most people wouldn't
wouldn't see, no, sorry, not most people, those who have been
indoctrinated into the, you know, by the the press and
you've had some hit pieces done about hope and all that kind of
stuff. But the people who?
Fall for that they they're not seeing it from that perspective,
are they, though? They're seeing a bunch of far
right. How can you look at hope and
think we're far right? I just don't, you know, you look
at all of our social media, you look at the website, you look at
our ethos, our values. It's just.
A ruse. Katie Joe, It's just stories.
I love your slogan. What's that so far?
Right, right so far. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant.
Yeah. T-shirts.
T-shirts available on the website.
Get yours now, right? So far, yeah.
So it's, yeah, it's just another, it's just like being
called a conspiracy theorist. Like it's like being called a
homophobic, transphobic person. I mean, I just, it's, it's just
another, it's just another, you know, name.
They're just trying to put us in that box really, aren't they?
And the only badge I will wear is that is the anti Vaxxer.
Badge. You know, I'm the same actually.
I'm really not ashamed to speak out and say I'm an anti vaxxer.
I'm not either, you know, I don't, I wouldn't necessarily
describe myself as anti anything.
It's, you know, it just has connotations of negativity, but
essentially. See, I, I, I don't feel that
because I've researched vaccines so deeply with every child.
I mean, obviously my, my background is that my mum's
brother, three years old, developed a leukemia after the
measles vaccine and died. Oh right, I didn't know that.
Yeah, so it goes right back in my family, the questioning of
vaccinations. And I used to.
I've always grown up seeing a homeopath and my homeopath when
I fell pregnant with Molly, she said to me, you really need to
research vaccines. She didn't say to me, don't,
don't, don't vaccinate research vaccines.
So she gave me loads of books and I'm sorry, but if you do
your research, there's just no way you'd let them, you know,
vaccinate your child. So I, I, well, I did that with
every single 1. I did that with Poppy and I did
that with Tommy. I just went back to the to the
same books, you know, and the informed parent is a fantastic
website. I don't know if they do any
talks anymore, but they went to a couple of their their their
talks. Oh.
Is that what's her name? Is that English?
Is that an English organization? Yeah.
Yeah, I. Think she, I think there was the
one who's promoted a lot in the Aneka groups who used.
To probably. It's pretty clear cut, really.
Yeah. When I say anti I, it's just the
word anti. But yeah, no, absolutely 100% I,
you know, vaccines are they're. Not safe, they're ineffective,
they're not effective, you know, and and it's again, all about
profit for big pharma and keeping us.
I'll, you know, so I'm, I'll wear that badge with pride with
Molly. She got whooping cough.
Oh, yeah. And it wasn't very nice.
But she's so, you know, it's it, it did the world of good really
in the end, because she never gets coughs.
And, you know, it's like a, it's like an immunity.
Yeah, there is a theory that with every infection, let's just
call it an infection, the the body goes through a kind of a
real growth spurt intellectually and it that that the challenge
of the infection pushes a child to develop.
And people like children have I. Agree with that.
And if you suppress the infection, then maybe they they
don't get that chance to. I I would say that's, that's
definitely true. I've I've witnessed that as well
with, with my children after they've maybe had a fever.
Yeah, they have like a growth spurt.
OK. So that's the, I would say I've
actually witnessed that, right. OK, so that is definitely true.
But it was the doctor. Oh my gosh.
Because I, I didn't, she didn't have any antibiotics or
anything. I used homeopathy to, to, to,
you know, to help her and just let it run its course.
But the, oh, the doctor, yeah. Oh, I bet you wish you'd had her
vaccinated now. No, actually no.
But they oh gosh, went obviously spent a lot of time in hospital
and that's that's a challenge when you have a child like
Tommy, who's who's born and straight into special care and
has, you know, you're in that allopathic environment and then
you're trying to treat them as holistically as possible.
And never forget the pharmacists going crazy at me because I'd
gave him, I'd given him some Monica and he went, you're going
to give him a heart attack. I was like, no, I don't think I
will. I think he'll be absolutely
fine. Thanks.
I've. Been What was his reasoning with
that? Oh, he just, he just didn't want
me to use any, anything apart from pharmaceuticals.
He didn't really give a reason. He just said that it was
dangerous, which is quite amusing, really, when you think
of the side effects from yeah, from pharmaceuticals.
It's just. But that's OK, That's all right.
Because they've got they've got the side effects documented and
they can say that these are, you know, so it's, it's all right
If, if you get ill from pharmaceutical drugs.
Yeah. It's, it's bonkers.
It's such a bonkers world we live in.
It really is, isn't it? The invert, the inversion
everywhere. It just, it drives you mad.
Your head just starts going, you can't cope with this anymore.
I mean, a clown world, as Trevor John says, that song is perfect.
It is a clown world. How was that when Tommy was born
then? Did you feeling then that you
had to be drawn into this system that you was very wary of?
I believe, yeah, I, I can see, I look back at my life now and I
look at big challenges and I think they've prepared me for
what I'm doing now. They've been, they've been a
preparation 100%. So that was obviously probably,
I would say the biggest challenge of my whole life was,
was trying to, I mean, if it wasn't for me and my mum, my
husband, I don't think Tommy would be here.
I really don't think he'd be here, you know, So I've when I
felt pregnant with Tommy, he was a surprise.
And when I found out, I instantly knew something wasn't
right. It was really bizarre.
Yeah, I knew in my gut I was like, this isn't right.
I don't feel the same way. And it wasn't that it was a
surprise because I love children.
I just keep having kids. I could just knock them out,
have loads of kids, but it there was something.
And. And so then and, and with the
girls, I didn't have any scans, didn't have any scans at all
with the girls, but with Tommy, something in my gut said I
needed to have one. And so that's when we found out
he had pulmonary stenosis on his heart, on his heart.
And, and then the second scan, they realised I had
polyhydramnius, which is this medical condition where we know
now he wasn't swallowing the amniotic fluid.
So I was getting bigger. I literally looked like I was
had about 10 babies and I was so tiny as well.
I was like Mr. Greedy from the back.
I didn't look pregnant for a turn around huge.
I was massive and I was really poorly towards the end.
But yeah, no. And, and when he was born, he
had to, he went straight to special care, couldn't feed, he
wouldn't feed. So he had to have Ng tube, which
is the nasal gastric tube. And then after 10 days they
said, OK, we've got to transfer him to Brighton.
And that was just kind of like the journey.
We were Brighton to Evelina, to Great Ormond St. to so many
different hospitals. Found out that he had De George
syndrome, which is actually the second most common syndrome
after Downs. Say that again, What's it
called? De George.
De George.
De George Yeah. And I've never heard of it.
No, I've not heard of it and some people don't know they've
got it. It can be very, very mild,
depends on the deletion. So Down's syndrome is a
duplication and did George syndrome is a deletion on the
chromosome 22. So.
So it was just a journey then of finding out.
So he had to have his biggest operation at three months old
was his fund duplication. Where what's this?
What? It's it's called a
thunderplication. So the top of his stomach, his
he had low muscle tone all the way down his centre of his body.
And so the top of his stomach hadn't formed properly.
So it's wide open. Oh.
OK. So for a, for a while before the
operation, he had to have a tube into his stomach that would take
the contents out so that he didn't aspirate.
And then he had a tube into his Jedinam which would feed him.
So, and all this time I was trying to express because I
wanted him to have breast milk. And I did that.
I literally, probably for the first 3-4 months, I think I was
every two hours, day and night, expressing wherever we were just
trying to, yeah, try to feed him.
And then he had the, the surgery, which was a huge
success. Fantastic surgeon at Brighton,
but this whole time we're constantly suctioning him.
So, you know, like a, a a suction machine that you get in
the dentist, that's what you would constantly have to suction
him and for they didn't. They didn't constantly.
Do you mean like literally? Yeah, yeah, constantly
otherwise. You could someone need to be.
He couldn't swallow. With him like.
He yeah, all the time, Yeah. He had the worst case of
dysphasia they've seen in the ebolina.
So he was suctioned constantly, but but even Even so, it was.
So I look back now and the speech and language therapist
was still trying to get me get him to feed.
And it's, I look back now and I, I cannot believe you didn't see
that He couldn't swallow. So it's just really weird.
So he has the fundification. He, he's, he's had, he had his,
one of his hernia operations. We get home and I've got this
baby that I'm trying to feed all these different formulas.
Actually before we even got him home, he had necrotizing
entrecolitis. I don't know if you've heard of
that. That's where some of the bowel
dies. And that's because they wanted
him to have this really, really high fat milk because he wasn't
putting weight on. And I said I was really worried
about him getting that. And they, they said no, no, no,
he'll be fine. I'll eat my hat if he gets that.
She went and then two days on the milk and he's profusely
bleeding. Yeah, it was.
It was awful. So yeah, it was.
It was just like there were plenty of times where I just
wanted to run away. Yeah, I bet.
But when I got him home, this was, this was I think was the
biggest turning point for Tommy was when he he would, he would
choke constantly. So therefore whatever we put
into his stomach, he would vomit.
So he's not putting any weight on.
So, yeah, and the, and the formulas were awful.
I knew that, you know, but I couldn't, I couldn't express
anymore. I had nothing left.
So I made it my mission to make my own formula milk.
Oh, OK. And I tried everything I, you
know, hemp milk and cows it literally every kind of milk.
And I would put, I studied the composition of, of formula milk
and I added molasses and olive oil and ghee and just coconut
oil and everything I could. But he was still being fed
through his nose. So there's a really tiny, tiny
tube. So it had to be really thin
still. He would still constantly vomit
all the time. So I, I researched raw goats,
OK. And that saved his life because
I, I can't, you know, I, I don't see how we would have got any,
you know, past that constant vomiting if it hadn't been for
the raw goats, because it turns to curds and whey pretty much as
soon as it hits the stomach. So it became a solid solid.
And that, that gradually helped him to start to gain weight.
So, and they abut, Oh my gosh, I'll never forget going for an
appointment with the dietitian and the surgeon who'd done his
surgery and I told them this and how brilliant it was going.
Oh my God, you'd have thought they were going to take him off
of me phone social services. It was it.
I suddenly just went right. Not never ever coming back here
again. Ever.
So was that part of your awakening process seeing first
hand some of the difficulties within, you know, or the, the.
I within the system. I thank God that that didn't
happen during COVID. I, you know, we, we were lucky
enough that it was a time where we could all be in the room with
Tommy, you know, and, and I could, I could sleep next to him
every night. And if I, you know, it was hard.
We had two other children. So I would, you know, every now
and again go home and see them And my husband would, we'd swap
all, my mum would stay with Tommy and Tom's mum was amazing.
And obviously the granddads as well have been so such a support
in, in supporting us and the, and the girls.
But I just, Oh my gosh, if I, if I think about what that would
have been like during COVID and the restrictions of having
people in there and, and the testing and the mask wearing, I,
I just, yeah, it was tough enough as it was.
So my heart goes out to anybody who was in, in the, you know, in
the hospitals in the system at that time.
It must have been horrendous. They, you know, I can't, I can't
knock most of the nurses and, and doctors, but it, but you had
to be there. You had to be there for
handover. You had to be there because
things would get missed. You know, there's, there were
times where he was going to be given the wrong medicine and
you'd be like, no, that's not the drugs he's on.
He's on this or, you know, or I don't remember one, one night
going to see him. This was when he was in the
special care unit. So he was really, really young,
probably two months old. And I'd just popped to see him.
It was about 11:00 at night. And there was a, a doctor doing
an A scan on his heart. And I was like, this wasn't
scheduled in. What are you doing?
Oh, yeah, just just just checking.
And I was thinking, you know, there's so much intervention for
these for, for when you're in hospital, you know, and these
little children, they, they have to have, you know, moments where
they're they're left alone. And it turned out he was just a
student just using Tommy, you know.
And so you, if you're not there, things will happen for sure.
You've got to be there and on your guard, which is a shame.
And I and I, I do believe hearing now that things have
probably have deteriorated quite a lot in hospitals.
All the children that hope benefit from that.
It's a very loving atmosphere. And some, you know, someone like
Tommy, like you said, if they're at mainstream school, they'd,
you know, maybe be bullied or, you know, left out, ostracized.
Way guarantee he was. He was in when he, when he first
went up to special care, when he was born.
Three days later a little baby came in called Tilly and
adorable little thing. Then we lost contact and Tommy
did go to mainstream school for a bit and they ended up being in
the same year together. And her story is different.
She did go to mainstream school and it's not, it's not been
good, not been good at all. And I know it would have been
the same for him. You know, he's, he's different,
not wrong, different, just different.
And you know, if you don't fit in and that's, that's the
pressure that all children have, isn't it, at school to fit in?
And that's what I saw with Molly, my eldest.
So she went through primary school.
I didn't even think about home educating, didn't even cross my
mind. Lovely village school guestling
really lovely small and she was very happy went to secondary
school and I just started to see that yeah, she was just quite
becoming quieter and not herself very quiet, unhappy and I and I
just thought OK, all the girls in school have got phones, you
haven't got a phone. They're all doing TikTok,
they're all doing selfies, they're all concerned about what
they look like. And although Molly is loves her
makeup now and she's, you know, that's, she's found herself now.
But then she, she just wanted to climb trees and she wanted to be
in the fields, you know, rescuing sheep out of the canal
and, and, and being a being a child still, she wasn't ready
for that. And I just, my gut instinct was
get her out. And I didn't, I didn't know
anything about home Ed, didn't know anyone who home educated.
I just went with my gut. And that was, yeah, that was the
right thing to do for sure. So with Poppy, it was, it was a
natural thing. I just said, OK, you're not
going to secondary school. That's not happening.
I'm not going anywhere near it. And I was going to do the same
for Tommy. But then lockdown happened.
And as soon as it happened, I took him straight out.
I just thought you are not being told you can't cuddle Pete.
He's such a cuddly, cuddly. I mean, go up and cuddle
anybody, won't he? And well, tickle anybody.
So, you know, the thought of him being told that he's, he's, you
know, he's, he's, he's got germs and he can't do that and he's
going to make people ill and all of that nonsense.
And, and, and I think it's, it would have had such a
detrimental effect on his mental health.
The, the, the constant hand washing they were told to do.
And I just know it would have. Affected him.
Negatively hundreds. Of thousands of children who are
traumatised by that whole episode, don't even realise it.
It's sort of a hidden, hidden disaster really in a way.
I think probably kids, social development and confidence and
OCD. It did self harming went through
the roof, suicide went through the roof.
The age of of suicide dropped, I think down to something like 10
or I mean, you know, it's pure evil what they're doing and what
what what they did. It really, really is.
There's no other word for it. It's interesting, when we
chatted with Andrew Bridgen a couple of weeks ago, there's one
moment he just paused because he, he was talking about
Leicestershire and his constituency and he was just
talking about the suicide rate, you know, and Cathay really
affected him. You know, I think these things,
the people are still in denial about what what they, what they
went through, you know? Collectively, what we went
through. Yeah, I think we're still, we're
trying to process it, aren't we? It's it.
But that's the weird thing, isn't it?
About when you look back on life, it's just the weirdest
thing because it's it's it feels like it was yesterday and yet it
feels like it. It happened in another world, in
a dream. Yeah.
It's just bizarre, isn't it? This whole existence is bizarre.
You know it is. What else can you say?
It's it's it's, it's crazy, Yeah.
Trying to work out what it's all about.
I sometimes think there's just no point even trying try.
Just be in the moment, really. Yeah.
And do you find that in a way with the whole the rabbit holes
that you can go down and. I don't go down.
Yeah, it almost feels like. I did it.
I did it to death. That's right, yeah.
There's a point where you just say I don't need to know
anymore. Really.
Yeah. I mean, there's still obviously
times where you'll hear something and it'll affect you
deeply, you know, there's still times where I'll hear something
and I'll, I'll really cry, you know, or I'll, I'll think about
things and it'll, it'll really get to me.
But generally, overall, I feel like I don't need to do that.
I feel like it's more important that I keep my vibration as high
as possible and I put my time and energy into something
positive and something that's meaningful.
And yeah, that's going to be better.
But that's not an avoidance thing.
No. I mean, I know that's not an
avoidance thing with you. I I, it can be with some people,
yeah. You know, But I think there's
that it's like a healthy trajectory where you, you you're
open to what's going on. You explore what's going on.
You see, there's an agenda, You see that there's deception.
And then and then you just you go, OK, I don't need to spend X
amount of hours a day indulging in, you know, the details of
this thing. I just.
I just need to. I need to get.
On my mind, where's the benefit for me?
Where's the benefit in that? You know, you're, you're going
to end up bringing yourself down, you know, and I do I, I
really truly believe that vibration is, is the key to
everything, you know, and we, I think most people that are awake
are on that page, You know, we're all vibration and we know
that the lower vibrations feed the machine, the elite, the, you
know, the dark side, it, it feeds them.
So, you know, as much as we can, we need to be love and above.
That's not always easy, but you know, but it's, I think
authenticity is, is important as well.
Authenticity is the most important, but it and and also,
you know, you, it's not saying we can't have those emotions,
but it's not allowing them to govern us and allowing them to,
you know, remain so. It's it's acknowledging them and
and being able to move on, trying not to get drawn in to
things as much. I like the observe not absorb
thing. Observe, not absorb.
Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. We had this chat with Sandy and
she was almost questioning, saying, well, should I, you
know, should I just leave it all behind and go off and do
painting or something, you know, and, but I think we do need,
it's a, it's a, it's a, we do need people to be Trail Blazers,
you know, and if, if they have skills and they have the armour
to face this and, and, and investigate it and, and be a
spokesperson. Those kind of people I find
amazing. We've all needed them perhaps
more towards the start of our journey.
And so I said to Sunday, what people like you do is just
something that a lot of people can't do because it's just too,
you must be really grounded basically to be able to face
that and talk about it and go into it.
I just don't think I can't really they.
Are incredible. You know, so it's not.
But that's that's that's where we all have a part to play.
A different role as. Well, and that's and it's that
should you know, that's community as well, isn't it?
You know, we've all got a skill, we've all got something to bring
to the table, and everyone's just as important as everybody
else. Yeah.
Transcending the ego. I know we need ego to a certain
extent, but it's important not to allow it to, to, to rule over
you and to really, yeah, we've got to keep a lid on it.
I think for us to be able to move forwards, You know, it's
still, people are still falling out and it's 9 times out of 10
the ego really. Yeah, I agree that's getting in
the way. I agree.
It's not discussing things that's the problem.
It's been attached to ideas that's the problem.
So, you know, I talk about stuff and I annoy people because I
have my opinions on certain things.
But what could that? Yeah, I'm not going to say I've
been told not to keep banging on about it.
But what I like is learning to discuss without being attached.
So let's talk about this stuff that we might disagree on and
let's do it with love in our hearts.
You know, it's just, it's not a big deal.
But can we learn to just not? Healthy debate.
Healthy debate and just, and not even, you know, it doesn't even
have to be a debate, just a discussion.
You know, like I said, I, I've stopped looking at stuff in
detail really largely, but I'm more interested in how we
progress psychologically as a, as a group of people who's
looking for truth, you know, because ultimately I think the
external is really just a reflection of the internal.
So unless we're dealing with our crap.
Oh, yes, we're just. But don't you feel like that's
at the moment everybody's craps being bought out of them?
Yeah, it does feel energetically like you can't hide anything at
the moment, you know, and people are, you know, on the edge at
the moment because if you've got any trauma that you've not dealt
with, it's coming to the surface, which I believe we've
we've that's that's for a reason.
So that we can move on and, and, and move up.
It's baggage. Get rid of it, you know?
Yeah, Make yourself lighter. You know, it was a massive
learning curve for me was was trying to unlearn that time
isn't linear. Yeah, the sun could still be a
portal, but we could still be on a globe.
The gay pride movement, which was just about equality and just
about allowing people to be who they want to be.
Now we've got these horrendous marches which children should
not be subjected to each other. And I was whizzing almost like
through space, I suppose because it was pitch black.
And there was like a bit like Star Warsy.
But it I know it wasn't a dream because I felt it.