1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,200 Good afternoon. It's Monday the 17th of November 2 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,240 2025, just after 1:00. Welcome to UK column News. 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,320 I'm your host, Mike Robinson, and my host in studio today is 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,000 Ben Rubin. Welcome to the program, Ben. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,640 Thank you, Mike. And joining us by video link are 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,640 Sandy Adams and Diane Rasmussen. Later in the program, we'll be 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,240 looking at how impact investing is being used as well government 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,360 takeover effectively. And we're also going to look at 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,840 assisted dying and how that's going in Canada, concerns from 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,560 the climate lobby about disinformation and the latest on 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,520 the roll out of 5G in the UK. But we're going to begin today 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,240 with the with the UK Health Security Agency and links 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,760 between excess deaths and COVID shots. 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,920 Because on Saturday, the Telegraph put out this article, 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,720 which many may have seen headlined government withholding 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,000 data that may link COVID jobs to excess deaths, as if that should 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,400 come as a surprise to anyone but the UK. 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,160 The the argue, sorry, the article says. 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,760 The UK Health Security Agency argued that releasing the data 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:17,480 would lead to distress or anger if bereaved relatives, so a link 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,840 were to be discovered. They said public health 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,640 officials also argued that publishing the data risked 23 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,600 damaging the well-being and mental health of the families 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,760 and friends of people who died. Now if you remember what the ONS 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,960 graph looked like at the time, it was clear that there was 26 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:36,880 something pretty nasty going on. So we just put it on screen 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,440 there. Now this is largely ignored by 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,520 politicians and journalists everywhere. 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,640 And now the Telegraph is doing what? 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,840 Trying to cover their tracks? What's, what's going on here, 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,440 Ben? I'd say so, yeah. 32 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,640 I mean, it's quite amazing that they, they don't want to release 33 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,400 it because they want to spare us. 34 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,960 You see, it's all about us. It's not about escaping 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,480 accountability. Indeed, We'll, we'll come up, 36 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:58,800 we'll come on to that in a second. 37 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,480 Now the campaign to have the data released has been led by 38 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,160 this campaign group US for them who requested the data via 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,360 Freedom of Information requests. The refusal from the UKHSA said 40 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,240 nothing at all about distress or anger when they were answering 41 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,080 these Freedom of Information requests, but instead said that 42 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,240 publishing the data could quotes could lead to misinformation. 43 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,080 It would have an adverse impact on vaccine uptake in in the 44 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,200 public. So the question is, which was 45 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,200 it? Was it they were worried about 46 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,720 the alarm and distress that it might cause the public or was it 47 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,240 because they were worried about vaccine uptake? 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,040 The UK Health Security Agency also claimed that the data 49 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,080 released could carry a risk of individuals being identified 50 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,800 despite data being anonymised. But hold on, the same people 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,360 tell us regularly that it's OK to collect bulk data on all of 52 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:55,160 us on on all of us NHS users because it's perfectly safe as 53 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,800 the data is anonymised. So I'm not sure they can have it 54 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,640 both ways. They're going to try. 55 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:03,560 They're going to try. Well, let's just have a look at 56 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,360 this quick quote here from them because they said protecting 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,680 patient confidentially confidentiality is of critical 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,040 importance. Releasing this data presented a 59 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,720 real possibility that it could be used to identify individuals 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,440 which could result in significant distress. 61 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,440 So that's that was their position. 62 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,160 And that's pretty hilarious, bearing in mind they didn't 63 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:31,560 really worry too much about causing distress in 2020 when 64 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,240 Spy B, for example, put this in their minutes. 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,640 A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently 66 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,720 personally threatened. The perceived level of personal 67 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,240 threat needs to be increased amongst those who are 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,200 complacent, using hard hitting emotional messaging and saying 69 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,280 that social disapproval from one's community can play an 70 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,000 important role in preventing anti social behaviour or 71 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,560 discouraging failure to enact pro social behaviour. 72 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,040 So they didn't seem too worried about causing alarm and distress 73 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,880 at that point in time. Just including the UKHSA in the 74 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,680 whole covidocracy that that existed at that point. 75 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,680 It wasn't them specifically they were making those statements, 76 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,800 but they were part parcel of this, or at least the precursors 77 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,600 were. We're part and parcel of of this 78 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,200 entire regime. So it. 79 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,760 Was formed in that period as well. 80 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,480 It was absolutely Khsa was was an outcrop of that early. 81 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,040 Absolutely. Covidocracy. 82 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,080 Yes, absolutely. And that security word that they 83 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,800 introduced, that's very much aligned to this stuff. 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,760 Yes. So anyway, I, I think, you know, 85 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,880 I applaud the organization help, you know, attempt to get this 86 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,200 information out in the public and it's supposed to be public 87 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,520 data. And and the campaign group was 88 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,200 busy was was pointing out that of course, this data has been 89 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,920 shared with pharmaceutical companies already, but it has 90 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,480 not yet been shared with the public. 91 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,680 So I think it's about time it was. 92 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,560 I couldn't agree more. So Ben, let's come on to the 93 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,360 issue of impact economy. We've talked about this quite a 94 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,080 bit over the last couple of months, but what's what's it 95 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,240 doing with respect to government? 96 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,480 Was completely transforming government. 97 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,560 And actually what you've just talked about is a really good 98 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,440 example of the impact economy in action because we don't really 99 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,600 have a government anymore. We have a public private 100 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,200 marketplace designed to deliver a global agenda handed down by 101 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,560 the UN in the World Economic Forum in a manner that is 102 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,360 designed to maximize profits to international capital investors. 103 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,360 That's what it's all about. I've talked about this a lot 104 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,880 previously. I've used this term before woke 105 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,960 corporatism, which I'm just going to going to drag back in. 106 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Essentially this is the, the, the model of governance that 107 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,160 we're currently being subjected to. 108 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,920 And it's a combination of intersectional Marxism, which is 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,280 the, the woke bit, the kind of DEI side of things, combined 110 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:57,200 with the corporatism, the integration of the, the, the 111 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,120 market in the state, which is also the definition of fascism. 112 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,000 I call this an unholy alliance between power and money. 113 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,080 And this to me is basically what Fabianism is. 114 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,080 No, the Fabian Society, we've got a Fabian government at the 115 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:12,720 moment. This is Fabianism. 116 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,280 It's also stakeholder capitalism, Same thing. 117 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:17,760 It's also the third way like you were talking about last week. 118 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,920 And it's also impact investment. That's ultimately what this is 119 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,760 all about. And the impact investment market 120 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,960 is in the ascendant. And who better to describe that 121 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,440 to us than Kieran Boyle, the chair of the Impact Investing 122 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:37,000 Institute? At the moment, governments 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,520 everywhere are facing a challenge. 124 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,520 They're all really ambitious to what they want to achieve, but 125 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,560 they're all facing increasingly tight financial environments and 126 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,000 impact investing can play a really important role because 127 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,760 when governments are tight on finances, they need to find 128 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,560 alternate sources of capital, people that they can partner 129 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,040 with. But it really matters about who 130 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,400 you partner with, what their incentives are. 131 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,840 Are they aligned and? What you have in in impact 132 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:09,160 investors is partners who can bring capital, solution focused 133 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,080 capital, but focus on the same sorts of things that governments 134 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,200 care about, improved social outcomes improved. 135 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Environmental Outcomes. He seems like a lovely man, 136 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,400 doesn't he? Delightful. 137 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,240 A delightful man. What could possibly go wrong? 138 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,360 That was Kieran Boyle, the chair of the Impact Investing 139 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,040 Institute. And I'm going to say, and I'll 140 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,640 be careful so that the lawyers don't get on the phone, that he 141 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,040 looks like a SPIV. Are you familiar with the term 142 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,520 SPIV? I've certainly are. 143 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,560 A dodgy geezer who makes his money in dishonest ways just 144 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,920 looks like one. I'm not saying he is a spiv, I'm 145 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,320 just saying that he looks like one. 146 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,360 It's the little Tash that he's got going on there. 147 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:51,640 Yeah, quite a quite a thing. Anyway. 148 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,600 Who is he? Well, we said he's the chair of 149 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,760 the Impact Investing Institute, which is actually a public 150 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,320 private partnership in itself. So that was set up between the 151 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,000 City of London and the Department of Culture, Media and 152 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,480 Sport, DCMS. It's backed by BlackRock and 153 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,480 bunch of other people like that. Boyle is also the director of 154 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,760 the Marshall Institute at the LSE. 155 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,240 That's Paul Marshall, the backer of GB News. 156 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,440 So if any GB News fans out there or people that you know that 157 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,840 like watching GB News, this guy works for Paul Marshall. 158 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,760 So this is ultimately Paul Marshall's agenda that we're 159 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,760 talking about here. He's also the chief executive of 160 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,679 the 100 X Impact Accelerator. We can get that back on screen 161 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,679 and have a little look at the logo there, which is embedded 162 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,520 into the LSC. Very influential guy this by the 163 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,559 way, better bet. He's also a non executive, 164 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,559 better society capital, formerly big society capital. 165 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:46,160 He's been there for nearly ten years now. 166 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,680 And before that he was a director in the Government 167 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:52,440 Innovation Group from 2008 to 2009. 168 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,920 So he straddled Blair, Brown and Cameron working in the Cabinet 169 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,520 Office, the Foreign Office, at Downing St. various other 170 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,080 places. And during that time he became a 171 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,960 young global leader of the World Economic Forum in 2014. 172 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,040 I say this guy here, this individual bundles together the 173 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,080 collected interest of all of those different groups and those 174 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,360 different organisations, and he's right in the mix of this 175 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,160 process of transformation of the British state. 176 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,200 Now let's hear a little bit more about impact investment from 177 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,640 Stephen Merse, who is the chief executive of Better Society 178 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,000 Capital. The government should really 179 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,280 start to build stronger relationships that impact 180 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,080 investors. The government has a really 181 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,680 significant mission around turning the UK into a clean 182 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:40,200 energy superpower and bringing communities and local people as 183 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,920 into part of that. And we've recently committed 184 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,800 significant capital into a new community energy investment 185 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,760 facility to support that and build on past successful 186 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,120 investments in community energy. You've also got really strong 187 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,000 track record of impact investment in the health sphere, 188 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,800 which is another one of the government's key missions, both 189 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,480 looking at prevention through community based initiatives such 190 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,040 as the very successful Thrive initiative in North East 191 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,600 Lincolnshire that helps people with long term conditions stay 192 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,800 out of hospital and and succeed in their lives without so much 193 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,720 health intervention. Yeah. 194 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,080 So that's Stephen Mirrors from Better Society Capital, the 195 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,240 chief executive, you know, say of Better Society Capital, who 196 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,840 absolutely reeks of civil service. 197 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,120 That guy. It was in the civil service for 198 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,920 about 20 years before heading over to Better Society Capital, 199 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,720 which is basically the extension of the civil service. 200 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,520 It was spun out of Cabinet Office by Cameron back in 2012, 201 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,320 and it was the precursor to the impact investment marketplace 202 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,520 that we're talking about today. All of this completely hand in 203 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,840 glove with the city. So those two videos I just 204 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,640 showed came from a short series that came out earlier this year 205 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,960 from the City of London. They're presenting themselves as 206 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,720 the global city. They want to help deliver 207 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,720 government using impact LED venture capital and private 208 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,480 equity so that they can make loads of money. 209 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,680 And they want to do this internationally importantly, so 210 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,680 that the UK is a test case for this stuff. 211 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,920 We talked about this quite a bit recently. 212 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,360 They're, they're trying, they're experimenting here, they're 213 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,360 building out the models for how they're going to deploy this 214 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,800 elsewhere and then they want to export that internationally. 215 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,760 And they're talking about this being a £1.9 trillion a year 216 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,080 global marketplace. That's ultimately what the city 217 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,760 and these investors are sniffing around and that's ultimately 218 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,840 what our government is becoming. It's what it's being set up to 219 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,360 enable and these organisations, we talked about the city, we 220 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,360 talked about the Impact Investing Institute, which as I 221 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,280 said, was set up by the city with the government. 222 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,600 So that's public private partnership right there, the 223 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,080 British Venture Capital Association, BCVA and Better 224 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,080 Society Capital. These are the people that are 225 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 really driving this forward, right? 226 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,560 And there was a big announcement on this front. 227 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,960 As I said, it's been going on for for quite some time now, but 228 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,960 there's been some really big developments over the past week. 229 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,120 Let's hear now from Darren Jones, the private secretary to 230 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,560 Keir Starmer. So can I start by saying thank 231 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:10,000 you for everything you've done and for the impact you've had on 232 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,160 so many local organisations and through them, the lives of the 233 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,480 people they serve. Because for all the good work 234 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,240 over many years, the community I now represent in Parliament 235 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,080 still has far too few young people being given the chance to 236 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,920 succeed in whichever way they wish to. 237 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,720 I feel lucky to represent my home in Parliament, but I do not 238 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,360 want my story to be exceptional. I want it to be normal. 239 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,440 And so my pledge to all of you this evening is I will use what 240 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,040 power I have for whatever time I have it to make sure that that's 241 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,080 the case in every part. Of our nation because we all 242 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,400 know that when governments empower communities, 243 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,960 specifically those who know the local area, the people, the 244 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,560 problems and the opportunities inside and out people like. 245 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:59,360 You that that's when truly transformative and long lasting 246 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:04,200 change can happen. So last year I set up the Social 247 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,800 Impact Investment Advisory Group and that it has today published 248 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,440 its report on what government can do to help more. 249 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,680 I can assure you that will be taking these recommendations 250 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,160 seriously and acting on them within a matter of weeks. 251 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,920 So it was Darren Jones, I said private secretary to Keir 252 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,360 Starmer, he's actually, sorry, chief secretary to the Prime 253 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,960 Minister. He's also the chancellor of the 254 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,120 duty of Lancaster. He's had those positions for the 255 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,200 past three months. You've been thrust right to the 256 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,080 forefront, doing a lot of communication work for the 257 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,320 government at the moment. They've got to put him out front 258 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,160 because no one wants to see the others talking about anything. 259 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,320 So this guy's been leading the charge. 260 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,920 He's the MP for Bristol Northwest, been in that position 261 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,640 since 2017. Background as a solicitor, when 262 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,920 he was at BT as a solicitor, he was on their smart Cities team. 263 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,400 Tells you quite a lot about where this is all going to. 264 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,160 He's also been receiving quite a bit of impact investing of his 265 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,640 own. So if you go to look at the 266 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,520 register of interests on the The Gov website, you can see that he 267 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,280 just received 44 and a bit grand from Lord Sainsbury, who's been 268 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,680 splurging huge amounts of cash on progressive political issues 269 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,560 quite some time now. That event, by the way, at 270 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,040 Downing St. was running partnership with this 271 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,840 organization. She's UK Community Foundations 272 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,160 in around for quite a long time, about 50 years. 273 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,520 And just worth noting that their president is this guy, Lord 274 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,240 Michael Hastings, former top brass at KPMG, World Economic 275 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,560 foreign strategic partner, wearing a UNSDG pin in the image 276 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,720 there on the right hand side of screen. 277 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,480 So again, just tying all these things together, separate 278 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,040 organisations, same agenda. This is what's driving state 279 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,640 policy right now. Now that event that Darren Jones 280 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,160 is speaking out was the launch of this report. 281 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,600 So this is mobilising the impact economy as partners in national 282 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,280 renewals based on three pillars, organising to mobilise and 283 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,440 support the impact economy, embedding the mobilisation 284 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,120 mindset into the government and then unlocking resources and 285 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,200 participation at scale. This is the total transformation 286 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,520 of the state essentially into what they call a market enabler. 287 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,080 That's what the government is becoming, a market enabler. 288 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Still a regulator, a grant maker, a commissioner, A 289 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,080 guarantor. So they're actually going to 290 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,040 underwrite private sector risk. That's interesting, isn't it? 291 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,440 They even wrote that down. And then finally, an issuer. 292 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,560 So they're going to be raising capital through public debt 293 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,360 instruments. So this is just PFI spending 294 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,600 writ large across the whole of government. 295 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,840 Printing money. Printing money, I mean. 296 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,960 Yeah. And, and lumbering the tax payer 297 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,480 with extraordinary amounts of debt that never gets paid down, 298 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,600 overcoming barriers to this new model, whether those are 299 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,400 cultural barriers inside the civil service or other bits of 300 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,280 government or importantly, just just writing new laws. 301 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,800 So if the regulatory environment doesn't allow for it, well, 302 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,800 we'll change it, right? We've got to encourage 303 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,880 partnerships, not discourage partnerships. 304 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,000 This is already a huge business ultimately inside of the state. 305 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,720 They've done some work mapping out different levels of 306 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,520 investment across the five missions, whether that's kick 307 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,200 starting growth, clean energy, safer streets, the NHS, breaking 308 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,840 down barriers to opportunity. And that's coming from 309 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,040 philanthropy, social investment, institutional impact investment. 310 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,760 And they're actually explaining in quite some detail where these 311 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,440 funds are coming from and what they're all about. 312 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,880 They've developed this model for how they're going to, they call 313 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,440 it the staircase model. They're going to go to plant, 314 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,160 nurture, establish, grow and mature these initiatives across 315 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,480 the whole of government. They've got ways of different 316 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,720 ways of cutting up risk and return, different types of 317 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,680 financial financial instruments that they're going to use, 318 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,400 different participants in the marketplace from ventures to 319 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,080 private equity, everything in between different types of 320 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,680 support required from government. 321 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,800 And all of this is, is based on outcomes. 322 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,760 So they'll talk about outcomes based contracts so people can 323 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,840 extract value only when they actually deliver the outcome 324 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,200 they've signed up for. But what that necessitates is 325 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,079 Sandy talked about a couple of months ago actually is total 326 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,560 surveillance. So in order to know if they've 327 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,480 delivered an outcome, they have to surveil you in order to 328 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,839 understand if you can actually then trigger the payment, right? 329 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,720 So this is where a lot of that stuff comes in. 330 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,839 They're already acting on it. It's rushing ahead. 331 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,839 One of the recommendations that was in the report was to set up 332 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,400 listing the office for the impact economy. 333 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,800 This is housed in the Cabinet Office. 334 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,599 You can see at the bottom there, Darren Jones is going to be 335 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,600 running it. He's the ministerial lead. 336 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,400 And ultimately this is about cross government collaboration. 337 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,760 So cutting across all departmental divisions and silos 338 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,040 as they talk about them being a front door for institutional 339 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,600 capital to come into government to coordinate those 340 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,120 relationships, to build capacity and extend the government's 341 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:50,320 ability to to engage with this stuff. 342 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,360 While at the same time identifying and supporting new 343 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,640 partnerships, building the marketplace proactively for 344 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:01,280 these investors to come in and stop stripping profits out of of 345 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,200 government. And importantly, this is a said, 346 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,160 this is being run out of Cabinet Office. 347 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,160 They have what they call a hub and spoke model. 348 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,520 The DCMS are absolutely in the picture. 349 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,040 Treasury #10 partnerships, Union unit, the Department of the 350 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,240 Business and Trade. They're going to work openly and 351 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,840 collaboratively with stakeholders, obviously. 352 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,360 And this is about doing government differently, total 353 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,320 transformation of the state. This is what the change agenda 354 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,160 is all about, impact. Impact and no change actually, 355 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,240 because because this is a great example of the Unit party in 356 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,040 action. We're talking about the same 357 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,120 organizations that were established under the Cameron 358 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,640 Tory government. It's being absolutely pursued as 359 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,320 hard as it can be by the current Labour regime. 360 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:48,920 What's the difference between them? 361 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,200 Nothing. And would it be any different 362 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,600 under reform? Absolutely not. 363 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,240 Because Paul Marshall is. For for his words, for the, for 364 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,800 his words for the city. Yes. 365 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,720 And the city's is shaping this, so yeah. 366 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,080 OK, Thank you, Ben. OK, let's welcome sadly to the 367 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,920 program. And Sunday, of course, the 368 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,040 assisted dying bill continues to deliver its way through, excuse 369 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,760 the pun, through Parliament at the moment. 370 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,800 It's always good to look at what's happening in countries 371 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,600 where this policy has been implemented for a number of 372 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,200 years and see what's happening there. 373 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,960 So bring us up to speed with what's going on in Canada. 374 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,160 Yeah, yeah. Good afternoon, Mike and and Ben 375 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,520 and indeed everyone. Now, with the research we've all 376 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,440 been doing over the last decade or so, we've known that there's 377 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,840 been a depopulation agenda ongoing since around the 1970s 378 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,040 with the Club of Rome reports and the likes of Bill Gates and 379 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,640 Yuval Harari, Klaus Schwab, they've all spoken about it. 380 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,960 And also there was the Deagle population forecast for 2025 381 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:55,480 published by the CIA from 2014 to 2020, which I'm sure all of 382 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,360 you will know about. Umm, we've, if not, I'll put 383 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,400 them in the show notes. We've hoped that this would 384 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,200 never happen, but umm, we have to, we have to call it out 385 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,120 nonetheless. But according to a recent piece 386 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,880 in in the Sage Journal of Death and Dying published by the 387 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,520 Health Canada, umm, they now lay bare a cost saving exercise and 388 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,680 it's so cold and extreme. It's really hard to believe that 389 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,640 they published it openly, to be honest. 390 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:26,000 Umm as Canadian veteran Kelsey Sharon highlighted, the analysis 391 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,240 claims that. From uh 2027 to 2047, the 392 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,640 Canadian government will save 1273 trillion not through 393 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,880 breakthroughs in medicine or better care, but by ending 394 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,320 lives. More than 14,000,000 Canadians 395 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,480 at their own data, you know, as their own data shows, are 396 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,000 expected to be disposed of through medical assistance in 397 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,640 dying or made as they call it, rather than receiving palliative 398 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,280 care, mental health support or actual help. 399 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,440 So that's, you know, the, the staggering amount is 14.7 400 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,160 million human beings killed by the state. 401 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,720 Now let's hear what Kelsey Sharon, she's a veteran 402 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,720 campaigner in Canada and she what she says about this. 403 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,200 So the Journal of Death and Dying recently this year of 404 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,760 2025, came out and expressed what Health Canada's plans look 405 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,760 like to do to save money. They are on track starting 2027 406 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:31,520 to 2047 to save $1.273 trillion by providing 14.7 million 407 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,280 Canadians with MAID rather than palliative care. 408 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,880 What was that #14.7 million Canadians? 409 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,880 Over 9 million of those are projected to be elderly. 410 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,880 Over 4 million of those are projected to be the mentally ill 411 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,800 and suicidal. Over 300,000 of those are 412 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,640 projected to be the indigenous population and then everyone 413 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,080 else, addicts, homeless and otherwise. 414 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,360 So Canada's running eugenics program and they're planning to 415 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,160 expand that with the start of mentally ill only qualification 416 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,840 in 2027. And for those that are find 417 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:08,080 those stats as disgusting as I do, you can go check out the on 418 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,760 the Sage Journal or the Death Journal of Death and Dying. 419 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,760 They break it all down for you. They go through the numbers. 420 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:21,040 We've also done it on the series as well. 9 million of these 421 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,800 deaths are forecast to be the elderly, the people who built 422 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,680 the country, parents, grandparents. 423 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,080 Another 4 million of people suffering from mental illness, 424 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,600 depression or suicidal thoughts. Exactly the people who need 425 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,240 compassion and treatment. 300,000 are projected to be 426 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,840 indigenous and the rest are discarded. 427 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,320 Discarded of society, the poor, the addicts and the homeless. 428 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,960 This depopulation agenda is wearing it's, it's kind of 429 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,960 wearing the the mask of being somehow health reform. 430 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,760 It's also the same ideology that drove the last century's 431 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,400 euthanasia programmes and the belief that some lives cost too 432 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,840 much and aren't worth living. And it's funded by the taxpayer. 433 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,720 I mean, I can't believe they've got it all sewn up. 434 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,720 It isn't stopping at Canada's borders either. 435 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,240 The same conversation is unfolding across the rest of the 436 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,840 Western world from the UKNH processes build their End of 437 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,600 Life Cost Management Bill is openly discussed and the US 438 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,240 think tanks pushing optimised death as a budget strategy. 439 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,760 A narrative is being seeded everywhere that euthanasia is 440 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,600 empowerment or some form of dignity, when in fact it's a 441 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,760 system itself that created the despair and the poverty and the 442 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,680 mental illness. The powerful have effectively 443 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,960 declared open season on on the vulnerable. 444 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,120 Our UK assisted dying bill reached its committee stage in 445 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,600 Parliament last week, Friday the 14th of November. 446 00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:51,120 Will we go the same direction as Canada where it appears to be an 447 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,400 open movement to kill people? It's up to us to campaign our 448 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,160 local MPs and make a noise about this. 449 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,960 So I really think our MPs don't understand what's going on at 450 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:04,200 all. Now we've, we've also got coming 451 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,400 up this at the moment is the Public Authorities Fraud, Error 452 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,440 and Recovery Bill, which also also moved to the committee 453 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,000 stage last week where it's sort of ping pongs around before it 454 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,200 goes to Royal Assent. Now this is all linked. 455 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,680 There's been some opposition to this by MPs where there's, 456 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:30,160 there's a Lib Dem MP called John Miller who, who's the, I think 457 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,440 he's the MP for Horsham and what he has to say about, about 458 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,240 what's what's going on. And he says, yeah, he said 459 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,040 everyone accepts that we need to keep a handle on fraud, but the 460 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,120 powers being taken in the bill gives the DWP access to people's 461 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,920 private bank accounts. Now what he's worried about is 462 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,200 that this could actually 'cause people to take their own lives 463 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,360 and it has done in the past. So what, what he's what he's 464 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,600 saying is, is, is, is he's got very grave concerns and a lot of 465 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,760 the MPs do. And I think we really have to 466 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,760 push this, that in fact this is this, this is a bit, you know, 467 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,760 this is definitely dodgy. Umm, so the government repeats 468 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,800 the same lines. We're only targeting benefit 469 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,360 fraudsters. That's nonsense. 470 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,400 The bill covers fraud, error, debt and overpayments, which 471 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,440 usually is errors by the DWP. Yet banks will be forced to hand 472 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,880 over people's financial data to simply check avail, you know, 473 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:33,680 sort of the eligibility. Now, once that precedence in 474 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,600 place, once banks and government systems are wired together, it 475 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,240 never goes away. And then comes the most chilling 476 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,520 part, direct deduction payments. The government will be able to 477 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,520 reach into your bank account and take money if you dispute the 478 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,720 debt. We already know where this 479 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,280 leads. Disabled people who've been 480 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,000 hounded over DWP errors in the past and push deeper into 481 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000 despair. Coroners have explicitly linked 482 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,960 DWP actions to suicides. Now there's a campaigner called 483 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:06,560 Liz Liz and she's campaigns for the disabled and she warned MPs 484 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,720 and peers that the care funding crisis will create pressure to 485 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,280 those to who might want to choose assisted suicide as a as 486 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,680 a way of getting out of it. And I think we could listen to 487 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,760 her now what she says about all this. 488 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,640 DPAC and every other disability rights organization says no to 489 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,640 assisted dying, or as we call it, assisted suicide. 490 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,480 We live in a world that sees disabled people as better off 491 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,480 dead than disabled. When you're living in a world 492 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,840 with attitudes like that, it is not safe to legalize making it 493 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,480 easier for certain groups of people to have a medically 494 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,240 assisted death. Until our demands are met, our 495 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,120 core demands for an inclusive and Equitable Life for all 496 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:08,320 disabled, ill, and older people, for all people, in fact, we 497 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,280 can't even consider legalizing assisted suicide. 498 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,880 It is not safe. This is not, by the way, a bunch 499 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,200 of religious people saying let's not change the law. 500 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,960 This is a group of disabled people, many of us, who've 501 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,240 considered this subject with great concern. 502 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,440 And we know it is dangerous to legalize and change the law and 503 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,520 to remove the legal protection that currently exists around 504 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,400 assisted suicide. We demand this government does 505 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,800 not legalize assisted suicide. For terminally ill people, ill 506 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:53,320 people, disabled people. Now we only need to look at 507 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,560 Canada to see the end game. Disabled people quietly steered 508 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,600 towards state approved death because they've been deemed too 509 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,560 costly to support. And that's what happens when 510 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,960 governments governments begin to weigh human life in purely 511 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,080 financial terms. Benefit claimants are simply the 512 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,000 testing ground. Once this system is operational, 513 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,320 it will expand to taxes, fines, carbon rationing, energy use and 514 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,720 whatever future governments consider necessary. 515 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,040 This is the thin end of the wedge. 516 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,520 If we don't stop it now, the vulnerable will suffer first and 517 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,240 the rest of us will wake up to a world where the state access our 518 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,560 finances. And it isn't, you know, 519 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,880 exceptional or limited. It's permanent. 520 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,520 All the details of of this will be in the show notes back to 521 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,800 you. Sandy, thank you very much for 522 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,160 that. OK, let's move on. 523 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080 If you like what the UK column does, you would like to support 524 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,480 us, head over to the front page of the website. 525 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,360 You'll get a link to the page which explains how you can 526 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,880 support us. We do need your financial 527 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680 support if you possibly can. If you can't support us 528 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,080 financially, please share material you find on the 529 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,200 website, including perhaps Germ Warfare. 530 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,800 It's tonight at 7:00 PM. Germ is speaking to Jeff Berwick 531 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,560 on the On Reality being a 3D video game. 532 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,600 I'm not sure I necessarily I totally agree with that, but you 533 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,560 know that I'm going to be watching with interest anyway. 534 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,240 And then at 9:00 PM tonight, former Taiwan Independent 535 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,080 supporter, now a pragmatic voice in Taiwan's future. 536 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,800 This is Angelika Young speaking to Carl for the Silk and Steel 537 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,560 podcast. Join us at 9 for that, Ryan, as 538 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,880 his presentation from the Hope Freedom Festival is finally 539 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,200 going out at 1:00 PM tomorrow. So join us for that as well. 540 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,520 And of course, we'll be back for the news on Wednesday as well, 541 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,840 1:00 PM as usual. But in the meantime, let's get 542 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,440 on with some other matters. And well, Diane, over the last 543 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,480 couple of weeks, we've been talking about the increasing, 544 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,920 how do we describe it, desperation among certain people 545 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,960 that they're not being believed and their agendas are not being 546 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:04,720 accepted by people. And this applies equally within 547 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,520 the climate science community. And they're very concerned, it 548 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,920 seems, about disinformation. Yes, Mike. 549 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,600 Hello Ben, Sandy and everyone. Glad to be here. 550 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,120 Glad to be here today to give you this report on what's been 551 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,080 going on at COP 30, which is still ongoing. 552 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,120 This actually follows up a little bit, starting with the 553 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,360 disinformation segment that Mike and Charles did back on the 7th 554 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,240 of November, talking about the UK statements at the UN 4th 555 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,200 Committee by Letitia Loonen when she said that the UK is indeed 556 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,080 deeply concerned by the growing threats to information 557 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,760 integrity. Now, first of all, let's define 558 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,680 what information integrity means according to the UN. 559 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,200 It's not my definition necessarily as a librarian of 25 560 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,720 years, but the UN defined it last year as existing. 561 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,480 Quote. Where freedom of expression is 562 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,360 fully enjoyed and where accurate, reliable information 563 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,400 free from discrimination and hate is available to all in an 564 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,360 open, inclusive, safe and secure information environment. 565 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,200 So at COP 30 last Wednesday, the 12th of November was Information 566 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,960 Integrity Day and let's watch this lightheart YouTube video 567 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,560 that was played through to show what they think they mean by 568 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,480 information integrity. What is the most absurd thing 569 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,520 that you've ever heard on social media about climate change? 570 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,280 That the ice in the Antarctic and Arc is not decreasing but 571 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,280 increasing. I think that the most crazy 572 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,120 thing I've ever heard is that it's OK that our plan is dying 573 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,840 because there's other plans that we can live. 574 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,760 Today is Information Integrity Day here at COP. 575 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,560 This information about climate change is spreading faster than 576 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,200 ever, fueling myths and misconceptions about the climate 577 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000 crisis and the solutions to address it. 578 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,960 Because tackling climate disinformation has never been 579 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,680 more important, and to learn how to address it, we asked 580 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,880 Charlotte Skadden to share her insights. 581 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,760 I'm Charlotte Skadden, and I'm Senior Advisor on Information 582 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,240 Integrity at the United Nations. We're all targeted. 583 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,440 By climate disinformation in one way or another and anyone who 584 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,440 uses online spaces has come across climate disinformation 585 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280 there are many different tactics used to try and undermine 586 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,080 climate action in information spaces and they range. 587 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,240 From. Classic disinformation, denial 588 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,840 of climate change to disinformation around solutions. 589 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,280 So we need all hands on deck to address climate information and 590 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,000 threats to climate information integrity. 591 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,960 And that includes governments, it includes tech platforms and 592 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,960 companies, it includes civil society, it includes 593 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,560 advertisers. It's really important that we 594 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,600 try and empower ourselves to recognise it when we see it and 595 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,360 to share that information with others. 596 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,040 You might also be targeted by it. 597 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,600 Fighting climate disinformation starts with knowing the facts 598 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,960 and sharing them. Together, we can make truth go 599 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:10,720 viral. So great to make truth go viral. 600 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,680 All right, well, we like you look at a range of press 601 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,720 releases related to what they said at the UN. 602 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,280 But first let's look at this ex post where basically they're 603 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,160 saying this is what they're going to be doing. 604 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,840 This is a landmark declaration. All of the press releases and 605 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,280 tweets. And so that I've seen about this 606 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,880 has been saying that essentially this is the first time that this 607 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,560 has been an important thing at COP at a COP conference, The 608 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,800 very first time actually for information integrity at any COP 609 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,600 conference. Some of the other press releases 610 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,440 that the UN has put out about this has said this is the age of 611 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,440 disinformation, which I would probably agree with in certain 612 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,880 ways. This again saying about the wave 613 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,280 of truth, the COP of truth, which is on the the next press 614 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,400 release, which is again from the UN saying that it is now 615 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,440 targeting disinformation as a threat to climate action. 616 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,920 So again, obviously the science is out. 617 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,000 The consensus all says, well, it's all just, you know, we need 618 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,920 this information because we all now know that we have to do 619 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,080 absolutely everything apparently according to all scientists 620 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,360 everywhere. So let's look at this next 621 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,760 video, which was part of that ex post pay potential. 622 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,560 If you look at the tie on the the first person that appears, 623 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,520 you'll see a very sustainable development pattern on the tie. 624 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,280 Let's take a look at this. For a few years now, several 625 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,880 global risk reports, for example, the Davos World 626 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,000 Economic Forum Global reports of risks. 627 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,639 They put as global risk number one in this planet, not climate 628 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,840 change or climate disasters, but disinformation, Global risk 629 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,199 number one and global risk number 2 is actually climate 630 00:34:54,199 --> 00:35:04,200 change. Purveyors of climate 631 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,760 disinformation don't simply deny climate change. 632 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,320 They undermine climate action by attacking researchers, 633 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,920 scientists and journalists personally by questioning the 634 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,720 scientific consensus around climate change and creating 635 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,840 false narratives around climate solutions. 636 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,240 And and they're also seeking to skew the perceptions of policy 637 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,440 makers of of the people here negotiating. 638 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,920 So for many years we have been trying to raise awareness or 639 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,280 sound the alarms that this interaction between information 640 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:43,480 integrity and climate change is absolutely vital for both 641 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,440 fields, for the field of information integrity, but also 642 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,320 for the field of climate change and those two crucial issues, 643 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,840 they depend on each other, they need to interact more. 644 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,000 So you can see the full press conference that some of that was 645 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,720 based on, including the the lady wearing the Sustainable 646 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,400 Development Goals pin Charlotte and some of the other people in 647 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,640 that press conference said things like, quote, 648 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,880 disinformation and denialism undermine trust in science and 649 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,880 institutions. It feeds and fuels hate speech 650 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,200 and extremism. Some of the questions that came 651 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,720 up in the full press conference, I watched the whole thing so 652 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:24,400 that the viewers don't have to, but some of the questions came 653 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,600 from example from the Guardian who when a reporter asked why 654 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,680 are the fossil fuel lobbyists present and basically what can 655 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,360 we do about these lobbyists that have been present here at this 656 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,320 particular COP conference. It's important to note as well 657 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,560 that this all goes back to the UN Global Digital Compact, which 658 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,000 was released in September of 2024. 659 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,040 Paragraph 35 E states quote encourage United Nations 660 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,760 entities in collaboration with governments and relevant 661 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,320 stakeholders to assess the impact of misinformation and 662 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,040 disinformation on the achievement of the Sustainable 663 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,680 Development Goals or SGG 17. SGG 17 is partnerships for the 664 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,320 goals, and this basically talks about how the goals are 665 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,680 accomplished through various sources of funding and 666 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,760 organizations. I'll come back to how this is 667 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,920 done at the end of my report, but I just want to remind 668 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,960 viewers that essentially, if you hear the word sustainable within 669 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,960 the context of the Sustainable Development Goals, it really 670 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,640 means unsustainable. It's all an inversion of 671 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,880 language. Now, how is this done, 672 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,040 particularly through UNESCO and other organizations? 673 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,880 UNESCO is the one who has published what they've called 674 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,720 the Global Initiative for Information Integrity on Climate 675 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:36,440 Change. So what we see here is from 676 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,240 their website talking about COP 30 in particular, they have 677 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,080 several documents. This COP 30 document talks about 678 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,280 exactly what they're going to be doing here and how it's going to 679 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:47,720 be done. That basically they have signed 680 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,080 this declaration, which I'm going to cover here in just a 681 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,840 minute. It's all about how to fight the, 682 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,800 as they're calling it, catastrophic global heating. 683 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,720 And this is being sabotaged the by a surge of climate 684 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:02,000 disinformation. And so these falsehoods are 685 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,920 getting in the way of stopping all this apparent global boiling 686 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,640 that is going on. So before November this year, 687 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,320 earlier this summer, they put out a call to action for this 688 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,840 initiative for information integrity and climate change, 689 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,800 asking for individuals and organizations to come forward to 690 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,160 come up with solutions on how to fight this apparent problem. 691 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,560 It says through a global fund and through various ways of 692 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,240 getting this funded and sourced that this is what we need. 693 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,120 So they're looking for organizations are looking for 694 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,960 money, they're looking for various things and how they can 695 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,160 get this actually going into play. 696 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:47,480 And once again, you could apply to, to contribute to this. 697 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,680 Apparently the, the applications are not closed. 698 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,800 So I wasn't able to see what it was that they were actually 699 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,240 looking for. I would have loved to see the 700 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,160 application form, but unfortunately that's no longer 701 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,640 available on that website as well. 702 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,720 They, they talked about this initiative at the COP of Truth, 703 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,640 which was directly from this taken from this website. 704 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,680 And this was really interesting because it said you can read 705 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,360 more about the unprecedented prominence of IT information 706 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,040 integrity at COP 30. Now, apparently before Cop 30, I 707 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,280 don't know if the first 29 Cops did not care about integral 708 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,160 information, but this is now a a very important point here in Cop 709 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,280 30. So we can't really speak exactly 710 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,120 to what was going on there. But the call to action again is 711 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,720 talking about here's what we have to do, here's what we need, 712 00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,120 here are the people that we need to have to be able to 713 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,360 contribute. So what happened at the November 714 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,400 conference last week? Well, we now, as a result of the 715 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,160 call to action and as a result of this now being the cop of 716 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,240 truth, there was an open letter signed talking about this 717 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,360 declaration on information integrity. 718 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,040 So the open letter was signed by 134 organizations, including the 719 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,680 Club of Rome at the University of Leeds, for an example of an 720 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,840 academic partner, Extinction Rebellion, and 127 individuals, 721 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,440 which of course included Sandrine Dixon, exactly the 722 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,800 president of the Club of Rome, and many others. 723 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,560 And this information about the declaration was saying, 724 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,040 basically here are here are the ways that we're going to do it. 725 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,880 We are going to do research. We are going to share practical 726 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,320 tools, policies, communications, advertising campaigns. 727 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,080 Of course, we have to have the the propaganda campaigns, 728 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,640 trusted voices and influencers, media sustainability, protecting 729 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,680 journalists, activists, communicators, scientists, 730 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,520 protecting data, data sets, transparency of placement data 731 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,240 information, digital literacy related to climate change in 732 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,560 particular, and of course, donating financial resources to 733 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,920 UNESCO's Global Fund for Information Integrity on Climate 734 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,480 Change. And according to this, Antonio 735 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,480 Guterres, the UN Secretary General, said that, quote, we 736 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,360 must fight the coordinated disinformation campaigns 737 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,240 impeding global progress on climate change. 738 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,840 So that's the open letter, if we go into the actual declaration 739 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,840 statements. And it says it's drafted by the 740 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,000 members of the committee of this initiative for information 741 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,360 integrity on climate change. And it basically says, well, as 742 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,840 a result of the Global Digital Compact from 2024 Summit of the 743 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,880 future and looking at these global principles for 744 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,600 information integrity, we now, quote, reaffirm our shared 745 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,960 responsibility to ensure that societies around the world are 746 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,560 empowered with the knowledge and information they need to act 747 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,960 urgently and decisively in the face of the climate crisis. 748 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,400 So I went to look at this global Fund to see exactly how much 749 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,680 they were looking to fund and what they were going to do about 750 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,560 it. So this is from one of the UN 751 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,440 websites saying that since their launch in June 2025, they had 752 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,360 received 447 proposals from nearly 100 countries. 753 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,640 So this might not be entirely up to date. 754 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,920 It could be more by now. And they're saying that the role 755 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,240 of the funding is to uphold the integrity of information related 756 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,040 to climate change and calls on funders to donate this fund and 757 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,960 support projects that promote information integrity locally, 758 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,120 nationally and internationally. And it will contribute again, as 759 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,040 I said, through search funding, investigative journalism, 760 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,680 strategic work, communications, advocacy, cooperation with 761 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,760 organizations, carrying out related activities, which of 762 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,760 course goes back to SDG 17 partnerships for the goals. 763 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,440 This is how it's all going to be done. 764 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,760 So I'd like to say as UK columns, librarian and 765 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,200 information correspondence, that after 25 years in the library 766 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,840 field, I, I was, you know, I was really important to me to hold 767 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,840 the line to make sure that the basic principles of 768 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,560 librarianship and information access were provided. 769 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,040 Everything is available. But what they're doing here is 770 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,000 obviously only pushing the things that the UN wants them to 771 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,480 push. And so if we look here at what 772 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,000 they have been doing in the Internet International 773 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,640 Federation for Library Associations and Institutions, 774 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,040 which is an organization I used to belong to, I used to have an 775 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,640 elected role in this organization. 776 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,280 Actually, their press release from the 10th of November said 777 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,640 COP 30 begins. Culture adaptation and 778 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,800 information integrity are key themes for the library field. 779 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,880 So how are they contributing according to this press release? 780 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,720 Well, one is the state of library engagement and climate 781 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:23,640 communication and education. This report was funded by the 782 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,400 Gates Foundation. It basically said that now 783 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,200 libraries are contributing more to sustainability event, to 784 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,800 climate action, and so they need to be doing more on the climate 785 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,240 side. They said they would be 786 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:35,680 contributing to the global goal on adaptation. 787 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,160 So specifically here around how the cultural heritage sector 788 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,360 contributes to sustainable development goals, the Paris 789 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,800 Agreement, and of course, as always, the importance of equity 790 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,400 and inclusion. And so this is how it's going to 791 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,920 be done through the Action Agenda, which is one of the top 792 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,920 30 documents which we've talked about as well. 793 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,240 And they're contributing to this in different ways, including 794 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,080 contributing to a collaborative plan to accelerate solutions 795 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,920 that will explore narratives and storytelling as catalyst for 796 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,640 climate action. So that's the way I guess 797 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,320 libraries can contribute and helping libraries around the 798 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,440 world adapt and build resilience to the changing climate. 799 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,960 Now, they did also contribute to the UN global Principles for 800 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,480 Information Integrity, which they were very proud of. 801 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,160 And they said that these principles quote responded to 802 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,440 concerns about governments themselves sharing 803 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,600 misinformation. The quote info Demic experienced 804 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,760 during the COVID-19 quote pandemic. 805 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,520 Those are my quotes. Why are worries about how the 806 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,960 way Internet platforms themselves risked accelerating 807 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,880 the spread of fake news and growing awareness to the real 808 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,280 world impacts of online hate speech. 809 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,800 Now the human global principles themselves for information 810 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,560 integrity are is another document and these will all be 811 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,360 available in the show notes. But basically there are five 812 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,120 points that they are using that are these principles. 813 00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,040 So one is societal trust and resilience. 814 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,640 You'll get the role of platforms and acting in trustworthy ways, 815 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,200 healthy incentives, looking at business models that favour 816 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,920 click bait, public empowerment with some references to digital 817 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,280 literacy and enabling people to exercise choice when choosing 818 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,000 platforms. Which is great news for UK 819 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,480 column to have Choice, Transparency in research. 820 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,200 And finally, Independent, Free and Pluralistic Media, which 821 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,520 discusses the need to resist restrictions to press freedom, 822 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,920 support independent journalism and the need for ethical conduct 823 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,320 within the press. So Mike, maybe this is some good 824 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,320 news for UK column after all. Perhaps so. 825 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,480 Perhaps so. OK, Well, thank you for that, 826 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,720 Diane. Ben, let's move on then for the 827 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,440 capture of young minds. And maybe that's a related topic 828 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,840 actually. It's absolutely a related topic 829 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,720 because even with infinite wealth and power, their 830 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,920 narrative is falling to pieces it would seem. 831 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,040 So the last roll of the dice is to get hold of the minds of 832 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,760 young people and make sure that they don't listen to 833 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,880 disinformation and they are democratically resilient in all 834 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,200 of these awful terms that we keep hearing from these people. 835 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:19,200 But let's hear quickly now about a new report from Demos looking 836 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,600 inside the mind of a 16 year old. 837 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,760 From Manchester. They're both with me now and 838 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,440 what they find out may surprise you. 839 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,560 So can I start with you, this great odyssey? 840 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,760 What did you learn that surprised you? 841 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,400 The biggest surprise was the difference between the moral 842 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,400 panic that we see online and what we did that we saw during 843 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,240 our DES research phase, and the reality the moral panic around 844 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,880 young people not believing in democracy is simply not true. 845 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,040 They do believe in democracy. And they want to preserve it, 846 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,480 but they're looking for powerful messages that I've done 847 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,200 correctly. But the fact that they're 848 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,880 brainwashed by Andrew Tate, simply not true. 849 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,600 Every time we mention Andrew Tate's name in a classroom, they 850 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,000 laughed us off. They're not. 851 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,880 They're aware of some of his messages, but they know the hard 852 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,440 reality. This fact that they're 853 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,160 brainwashed by the algorithm, They're impacted by it, but 854 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,480 they're curious and they're thoughtful and they know what 855 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,160 they want and they know what they want to hear, and they'll 856 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,720 look for good voices. This is remarkably cheering. 857 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:16,440 I wasn't expecting a cheerful conversation at this time in the 858 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,600 evening. What kinds of things do you if 859 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,280 you're a politician, what kinds of things should you be thinking 860 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,200 about more when you focus on younger people? 861 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:28,200 Be honest, be direct and cut the BS essentially, and meet them 862 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,640 where they are. If you do meet them where they 863 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,040 are, you can, you'll see incredible. 864 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,400 Like what Zach Polanski is doing right now is incredibly 865 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,960 interesting. He's got a podcast, he's really 866 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,920 active on TikTok, he's bringing on really interesting American 867 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,840 names like Hassan Abbey, who's very popular on the left, left 868 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,840 side of American politics. And we need to see something 869 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,720 similar like that from, in my personal opinion, from Labour 870 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,400 and, and yeah, and just clearly show your values and clearly 871 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,240 tell a story. I will just say then the lip 872 00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:58,440 sync there was was their issue, not ours. 873 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,120 That was their issue, yes. I accept no responsibility for 874 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,520 that. So, but we thought we wanted 875 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,960 people to hear the clip. Actually, it's quite interesting 876 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,880 to get a sense of what the liberal progressive political 877 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,960 classes inside the M25 are desperately trying to find out 878 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,960 about, which is what's going on with 16 year olds. 879 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,120 Obviously they've just been given the vote that's kind of 880 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,600 forthcoming. So this is a crucial 881 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,640 constituency and it was all relating to this report. 882 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,280 We can get that on screen inside the mind of a 16 year old. 883 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,400 From Andrew Tate to Bonnie Blue to Nigel Farage, what the first 884 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,760 time voters think about social media, politics, the state of 885 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,640 Britain and their futures. The references here are just so 886 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,520 obvious. Andrew Tate, Bonnie Blue, Nigel 887 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,400 Farage, what do you think of these things? 888 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,720 And actually, it turns out the 16 year olds are not idiots. 889 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:45,080 They're not idiots Like the people who work at Demos are 890 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,120 clearly idiots and the people that go to Demos events are 891 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,520 idiots, right? They're much more sophisticated 892 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,040 than people. Give me credit for this report. 893 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,840 We just nip it to look at Polly Curtis, the the chief executive 894 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,160 of Demos, talking about the fact he came from Peter Hyman, who 895 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,760 was a political strategist for Tony Blair and Keir Starmer. 896 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,960 So gives you a sense of where this is coming from. 897 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,800 He didn't speak in that video. That was the chap Shuab Gamotti, 898 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,280 who she just calls us black. I hate racial categorisation. 899 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,920 It's just so crude, right? But that's what these people are 900 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,040 like. They go Gen. 901 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,320 Z, you all think this and black, you all think this. 902 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,680 And then when it doesn't turn out to be the case, they they 903 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,040 don't know what's going on, right? 904 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,680 And this is all about power ultimately and building 905 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,640 democratic resilience in this age group to make sure that they 906 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,920 don't fall out of this democratic system that people 907 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,320 like Polly Curtis are really keen on. 908 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,680 And I'd actually recommend going to have a read of the report is 909 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,720 quite well done piece of work. My main takeaways from me were 910 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:52,680 the first of all, there's no such thing as Gen. 911 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:53,960 Z. Like it's obviously a lot more 912 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,440 complicated than that. You're talking about that two or 913 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,160 three generations of people right now, as I said, 16 year 914 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,840 olds are not idiots. Some young women are very 915 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,880 disengaged. Some other young women are 916 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,800 completely terrorised by the world at the moment and they 917 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,040 want to burn the whole thing down, start again. 918 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:14,040 And they they they in brutalised and misinformed in a really 919 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,160 malicious way. And young men in particular are 920 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,680 questioning the narrative. And they're doing that with 921 00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,520 various levels of varying levels of patriotism, which was quite 922 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,960 encouraging, to be honest with you, which tells me that Demos 923 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,040 and this crowd have got a big problem on their hands. 924 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,040 And just a very final quick note about the provenance of the 925 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:39,400 reporting, That chap that was speaking just there, Shurab 926 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:44,280 Gamotti, he actually is employed by this organization, which is 927 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,800 the Future Governance Forum, whose job they see is reforming 928 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,640 the state. And again, this links directly 929 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,800 back to what I was talking about earlier in my first report. 930 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,960 And they are backed by, amongst others, Amazon, the British 931 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,720 Venture Capital Association, who I did speak about earlier, 932 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,240 William Perrin and Francesca Sainsbury. 933 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,080 So the Sainsbury's family, again, they're all over this 934 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,720 space at the moment. And then also Vanguard, one of 935 00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:10,560 the biggest asset managers in the world. 936 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,760 So these are the people funding this activity in order to 937 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,560 understand what 16 year olds are thinking about so that they can 938 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,560 sneak whatever their agenda items are on any particularly 939 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,920 given day pass and when it comes to the next election. 940 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,560 Yeah, OK. Thanks and for that. 941 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,840 Now let's move on then to to 5G. Now as some may be aware, 942 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,080 there's still no real 5G infrastructure rolled out in the 943 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,560 UK yet. What we have at this point is an 944 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,360 enhancement of 4G which is branded as 5G. 945 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,320 This is because very major part of the 5G roll out wasn't yet 946 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,320 licensed. I'm referring to the really high 947 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,960 frequency component of the technology known as millimetre 948 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,040 wave spectrum. And before any of the telecoms 949 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,720 companies could begin building out this capability, they have 950 00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:58,400 to pay money. Or they had to pay money via an 951 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,440 auction process run by Ofcom, which aside from being the chief 952 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,520 sensor here in the UK, is also regulating the telecoms 953 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,880 industry, including who can use which frequencies on the radio 954 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,120 spectrum. So Ofcom announced the final 955 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,240 auction results on the 24th of October this year were three 956 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:21,400 winners, EO 2 and Vodafone 3 each paid Ofcom 13,000,000 lbs 957 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,920 for the right to use 800 megabytes, 800 megahertz bands 958 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:31,240 of the 26 gigahertz band and 800, I'm sorry, one gigahertz of 959 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:38,320 the 40 gigahertz band. So Virgin Media O2 already has 960 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,200 2000 small cells deployed, but not none of these have this 961 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,640 capability yet. They can be have have millimetre 962 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,080 wave technology deployed on them. 963 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,600 Now they are going to be aiming to get those into stadiums, 964 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,520 arenas, transport hubs, it's all mainly towns and cities related 965 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,000 what they call high density populations and so on. 966 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,400 EE has around just over 1000 small cells so far which they 967 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,560 can deploy this in and they're also looking at the same types 968 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,360 of venues for their infrastructure and so on. 969 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,200 And so it goes on. They Ofcom themselves in this 970 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,960 technical frequency assessment criteria for shared access radio 971 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,480 services, which is one of the documents that governs this roll 972 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,440 out. I said that the license terms 973 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,280 and conditions will have a requirement for equipment to 974 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,000 start transmitting within six months of the license being 975 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,920 issued and continue to be operational afterwards. 976 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,040 The spectrum is not used in this time frame. 977 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,480 Ofcom. Ofcom may revoke the licence 978 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,120 within one month's notice. So that'd be great. 979 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,880 You paid £13 million and if you don't manage to get your gear 980 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,440 rolled out quickly enough, they can revoke the licence 981 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,440 afterwards. Now Open Signal here is 982 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,120 commenting on this and they're saying 5G millimetre wave. 983 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,720 The UK auction is over, but where's the action? 984 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,000 And they're making the point that actually even in countries 985 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,520 where that are much further ahead than Britain is, the 986 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,160 amount of millimetre wave technology that's been rolled 987 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:11,000 out so far is extremely small. So in the in Australia it's 0.1% 988 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:16,880 of all the mobile telecoms gear. In Japan it's 0.7% and in the 989 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,000 USA it's 0.3%. And they're asking why is that? 990 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,360 And one of the key reasons is because none of the telephone 991 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,960 manufacturers have really rolled this out in their handset yet 992 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,080 because this is quite a a step up from the current radio 993 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,480 equipment that they have in their telephones. 994 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,520 So not even high end iPhones in many countries have this. 995 00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:45,280 Only in the United States and one or two other sales regions 996 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,000 do they have this this technology at this point. 997 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,800 So anyway, we're at the beginning of this, at this of 998 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,240 this situation. Just want to remind everybody 999 00:54:55,240 --> 00:55:00,040 that some time ago we held a symposium, an expose on 5G, if 1000 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,840 you haven't seen this on the UK column website, if you want more 1001 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,000 background on this, please do go and have a look at the various 1002 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,160 presentations there. It was very interesting and it's 1003 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,600 worth your effort if you want to oppose this. 1004 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,480 But obviously, we are at the beginning of a process. 1005 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,040 Now that the auction is complete, we're going to see 1006 00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,400 this gear starting to be rolled out because the companies have 1007 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,680 to roll it out in some capacity over the next six months. 1008 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,880 So keep an eye out for that. OK, let's come back then to 1009 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,920 Sandy. And what's the latest Sandy on 1010 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:40,120 solar farms in the UK? I was I want to thank a 1011 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:45,440 gentleman called Mark Saxby from Wiltshire, who sent me this this 1012 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,400 campaign. You know, that's a stop the line 1013 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,920 down solar farm in Wiltshire. And actually if if we could have 1014 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,160 the the slide just. Before that, sorry, that's 1015 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,000 that's that's my mistake, Sandy, you'll get you'll get that at 1016 00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,040 the end. So. 1017 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,640 We'll get that at the end. No, that's great. 1018 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,400 No, that's good. Yeah. 1019 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,520 I mean this. I couldn't believe the size of 1020 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,360 this thing. I mean, it's absolutely huge. 1021 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:13,160 It's a 3 3000 acre facility and it's proposed by Island Green 1022 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,680 Power, a Bermuda registered company 100% owned by an 1023 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,440 Australian venture Capital Group called Macquarie. 1024 00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:27,360 That's MAQUARIE, which I I will be looking into, but I didn't 1025 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,040 quite have time to do it today. But this solar farm is massive. 1026 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:36,000 I mean, it's so huge. And if we just move on, I want 1027 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,800 to go through these slides. Yeah, obviously they've got a 1028 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,960 barrister on it. They think they'll probably get 1029 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,360 it turned down. But the trouble is that that 1030 00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:47,880 this bonkers Ed Miliband could override it with his bonkers 1031 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:52,840 renewable acceleration programme because that's what's happening. 1032 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,000 You know, this has happened with with several of these solar farm 1033 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,080 applications. They've been turned down, but 1034 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,640 he's been able to override it. Now these solar farms are, this 1035 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,680 isn't an isolated incident. There's huge ones being prepared 1036 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,280 all over our country, all the planning applications. 1037 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,000 Now they're huge. The tracking panels have motors 1038 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,600 which allow them to follow the sun and they make a noise, so 1039 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,120 they need deep foundations. These things, umm, and if we 1040 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,680 just keep moving, moving on through, and I'll just comment 1041 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,960 in each one because I know we're short of time E umm, each of 1042 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,000 these, umm, they have the battery energy storage as well, 1043 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,480 which is a huge fire hazard Chief, uh, fire chiefs all over 1044 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,600 the country are really worried about these because when they do 1045 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,120 burst into flames, which they do quite frequently, it take they, 1046 00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,840 they actually can't put the fires out. 1047 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,480 So, uh, and, and each one is 4 times the size of a shipping 1048 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,480 container. And they've also got these 1049 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,600 enormous, umm, uh, these, this infrastructure that's going in, 1050 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,120 uh, one of these is a place called Hullavington, which is 1051 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,040 right next to the solar panel farm. 1052 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,800 But the, the amount of infrastructure, as you can see, 1053 00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,840 is absolutely enormous. So if we just keep going through 1054 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,080 the slides, yeah. Now this is interesting. 1055 00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,840 This is the international comparisons. 1056 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,480 The UK is the world's third largest food importer after 1057 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,120 China and Japan. We import 46% of our food. 1058 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,560 Other European countries take more care of their agricultural 1059 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,040 land. Now this is the worry. 1060 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,800 It's actually taking up prime agricultural land. 1061 00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,760 No, in France, no solar panels on agricultural land for export 1062 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,240 to the grid. That all the large car parks are 1063 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,000 covered with the solar panels so they're using built existing 1064 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,280 buildings. In Germany, solar panels are 1065 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,280 strictly controlled and limited. And in Italy large scale solar 1066 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,200 on agricultural, agricultural land is prohibited. 1067 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:43,480 But we're just using up all our wonderful agricultural land with 1068 00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,600 all this stuff. Now what's interesting is I, I 1069 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:50,760 want to thank Bannerman for this particular slide and Cassie from 1070 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,680 the Residents Association, the National Residents Association, 1071 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:57,960 because it, it really makes you see how much of our land is 1072 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,280 being taken up by all this, all this infrastructure. 1073 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:06,560 And the yellow ones are the solar panels, the blue ones are 1074 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,680 the wind panels, and the purple ones are the battery energy, 1075 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,520 energy storage facilities. Now, all this is, is going to 1076 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,480 take up vast amounts of energy, vast amounts of water, and it's 1077 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,720 going to destroy our, our, our farmland. 1078 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,480 So I've put in the show notes, you know, ways to, you know, the 1079 00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,520 whole campaign and how you can, how you can oppose it. 1080 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,600 So we need to fight about this because this is our food 1081 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,040 security. Thank you. 1082 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,920 Thanks, Sandy. And we'll just we'll just very 1083 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,240 quickly put the the slide up for stop lying down the campaign 1084 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:45,080 here so that people can see that we'll talk a lot about that and 1085 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,080 extra. I'm quite sure we've got lots of 1086 00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:48,560 other stuff to talk about as well. 1087 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,200 So well, that's it for today. I'm going to say thank you very 1088 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,240 much to Diane, Sandy and Ben for joining me today and for you for 1089 00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,920 watching. We'll be back in a few minutes 1090 00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:02,040 If you UK column member for some UK column News Extra. 1091 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,280 If you're not a member, maybe you'd like to join us and then 1092 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,920 you can join us in the chat box and so on as we discussed in 1093 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,920 more detail some of the topics we've covered today. 1094 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,680 Don't forget Jerem and Carl's tonight and Brian's presentation 1095 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,760 going out at 1:00 PM tomorrow. We'll see you again on at 1:00 1096 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,920 PM on Wednesday for another news programme. 1097 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,440 See you then. Thanks for joining us. 1098 01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:24,840 Bye bye.