1 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,600 I often call you Scott in China. I think I'm going to change that 2 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,160 to Austrian Scott. I quite like the sound of that 3 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,000 and the lines, the lines quite nicely with the sub stack. 4 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,040 None. So Austrian Scott, thank you for 5 00:00:51,040 --> 00:01:09,640 joining me in the chances again. Well, I mean, there, there are a 6 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,840 lot of, there are quite a few sources out there of, of people 7 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,840 inside China trying to communicate to a Western 8 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,560 audience a more, let's say realistic view of China than 9 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,480 what you typically get from, well, certainly Western media, 10 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,600 but actually it's most of what you get on Western social media. 11 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,520 We also have a Chinese language production team. 12 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,520 So we actually most of our content we produce for China, 13 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,640 inside China, but for the Western audience, every now and 14 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,120 then we do do some of a few things. 15 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:48,320 And I think that as with any country, China has all sorts of 16 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,720 problems and some things go well and some things go less well. 17 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:58,920 And one of our goals that we set ourselves is to try and 18 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,640 interpret what's going on in China from the perspective of 19 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,280 the Austrian School of Economics, which is somewhat 20 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,440 known in China, but they're not very many people that are 21 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,240 reporting from that perspective. And the Austrian School of 22 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,480 Economics is kind of a toolbox more than anything else, helping 23 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,800 you to use economics to understand what's going on. 24 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,320 And we try and do that for applying to China with a focus 25 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,760 on, let's say, more our focus on the economy. 26 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,840 But of course, the economy is interconnected with all sorts of 27 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,640 other things. But inevitably, you know, trying 28 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,920 to communicate these what the reality in China to Western 29 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:39,720 audience means that we also have to spend some time, as you often 30 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,680 say, debunking myths, debunking propaganda is being spread in 31 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,640 mostly Western social media, not so much the official media, 32 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:49,280 because the official media is a little bit more careful. 33 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,320 But social media, you tend to get a lot of pure propaganda. 34 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,160 And I think that's, it's a delicate thing because I don't 35 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,640 want to create the impression that we're just, that's our, our 36 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:04,320 sole mission is to debunk Western propaganda and say that, 37 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,960 you know, everything in China is all rosy. 38 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,080 I think that's also one of the things that that you, you 39 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,680 appreciate, which not many people do. 40 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,280 And is that we try and we try and deliver sort of a more 41 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,600 balanced view of China without, without saying it's perfect, 42 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,520 without any problems. On the contrary, it has lots of 43 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,000 problems. And, and that's one of the 44 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,520 topics we've talked about times before. 45 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,160 And that is that China is in that sense, it's really just a 46 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,920 normal country. In that sense, it has some 47 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,840 things that does well, some things that does less well. 48 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:37,280 It's all those are problems. And it's not, it's not the the 49 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,000 authoritarian dystopia that it's painted out to be, but there are 50 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,200 some definite authoritarian tendencies there. 51 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,480 It's not like that's that's all imagination either. 52 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,800 So I think that's, that's the kind of balanced view that we 53 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,200 try and try and transmit. However, as we both know, that's 54 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,960 that view is not appreciated by very many people. 55 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,760 People want to have you really all be on one side or the other. 56 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,360 And it's always amazing to me that people accuse you of being 57 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,240 a shill for the Chinese Communist Party because you 58 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,680 actually deliver a very balanced view, which is unlike most of 59 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,120 the people out there, right. And it's not really, it's not 60 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,360 really the same thing when you see, when you, when you 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,399 appreciate the the things that do go well and then at the same 62 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:22,640 time and then see the other side as well. 63 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,600 It's it's it's a puzzle to me how people don't notice it. 64 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,400 But I guess it's probably because a lot of the people that 65 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,400 do spend time attacking you probably do so because they are 66 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,640 being paid to do so. Maybe, maybe not. 67 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,800 But I get that impression. That was when I read various 68 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:42,440 posts, which may give me the impression that people are not 69 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,720 listening, they're not paying attention. 70 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,560 Yeah. So that's that. 71 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,720 So I mean, that's that's one of the reasons why I started read 72 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,840 evaluating my views on China. I just when I stumbled across 73 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:01,400 your stub, your sub stack a few years ago and I realized it sub 74 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,480 stack. What did I say? 75 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,200 It's. It's still morning. 76 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,800 Yeah, not that many more, although it could be more, it 77 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,760 could be fuller, but it's more. Yeah, one of the one of the 78 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,040 things that caught me about reading the articles that you 79 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,960 put out is that you weren't suggesting or haven't been 80 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:27,080 suggesting that China is utopia. And you're also not suggesting 81 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:28,920 that it's this totalitarian hellhole. 82 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,400 And I mean, if you if you if you look at Western media as a 83 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,520 whole, it is this totalitarian hellhole where everybody's got 84 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,720 social credit scoring and you can't do anything. 85 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,360 And and this is Great Wall. Well, you've sort. 86 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,720 Of had the message delivered? The people that live in terror 87 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,760 of the government, yes, Yeah. And the people, one of the 88 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,320 favorite phrases is that people are oppressed. 89 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,520 I can't remember if I told you I was at a cocktail party with 90 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,960 some in the USA while back. Well, not that long actually. 91 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,600 Just half a year ago. Hold on, hold on, hold on. 92 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,200 Just hold on. Let's just contextualize. 93 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,280 You're not actually in the US, you're living in China. 94 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,760 I'm actually in China. Yes, I'm in China. 95 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:06,560 Yeah, OK. Sorry. 96 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,520 Go on. Yeah, this, this party was the 97 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,800 high, high level political people. 98 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,400 And, you know, I was trying to do my typical thing of trying to 99 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,400 dispel some of the some of the myths. 100 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,400 And I think we talked, we got to the social credit system, which 101 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,240 this guy who allegedly has all these political connections, 102 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,920 well informed and he completely believes the story and he he 103 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,760 believes the whole thing. And then he asked me this quite 104 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,280 well, I won't go to that right now, but they have to say he 105 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:41,520 said, so do you think the Chinese people are oppressed? 106 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,000 And it was a kind of a difficult question, but I'd say in, in 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,960 many respects, certainly they feel much less oppressed than 108 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,200 the people in the US. And that was like, why that was 109 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,400 the question. That was that was too much for 110 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,080 him. But I can understand because 111 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,000 without the, without the information that you need to 112 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,840 understand that then that that doesn't make sense, right? 113 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,000 But certainly I would say that in general, people don't, 114 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,080 Chinese people don't feel particularly oppressed. 115 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,880 And that's just even that one statement is kind of a shock for 116 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,040 people that read too much Western social media. 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,200 I mean, you're in Shanghai right now and we are not using AVPN, 118 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,120 so there's no Great Firewall of China. 119 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,120 Well, that's not true. No, there is. 120 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,880 China does block some. That's that. 121 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,960 China does definitely block some sites, although they block less 122 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,720 and less. They used to block most of 123 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,120 western media, at least that was my impression. 124 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,880 But now, except for a few of the really bad ones like the New 125 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,920 York Times, the BBC, some of the main propaganda organs of the 126 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,960 West, most of the, most of the media is actually open. 127 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,440 So you look at, I think CNS is open even now. 128 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,640 And most of the regional newspapers you can reach, 129 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,160 they're a little bit less paranoid, I think about the 130 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,880 propaganda. But ultimately the issue is that 131 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,080 the Chinese government, and I'm quite sure of this, they just 132 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,840 feel like their propaganda systems are no match for the 133 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,360 Western ones. And that's also kind of a little 134 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,120 bit difficult for, for a lot of Westerners to get their, their, 135 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,880 their hands around or their, their head around that this idea 136 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,360 that the reason they might be blocking things is not because 137 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,840 they're afraid of people getting on the truth. 138 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,640 It's because they're afraid that they, they won't be able to 139 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,280 match the Western propaganda systems. 140 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,160 And actually, I have to say, even though I don't agree with 141 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,840 their approach, I think it's paternalistic and silly and, and 142 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,480 self defeating in the end. But in that sense, they are 143 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,080 right. Their, their propaganda systems 144 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,960 are worse than the Western ones. There's just no doubt about it. 145 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:41,080 Their propaganda organs are very clumsy and most Chinese don't, I 146 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,480 can't say they don't pay very much attention, but they still 147 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,880 pay a lot less attention than Westerners do to their own 148 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,720 propaganda systems. They're much more, much less in 149 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,480 tune with what is in the Chinese media. 150 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,040 I mean, most people don't don't watch television in China. 151 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,280 The newspapers have practically disappeared. 152 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,760 So most people get their information completely from the 153 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,200 Internet. And the government's censorship 154 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,080 systems, and maybe we'll talk about this in a bit, are not 155 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,240 very effective. They didn't try, they definitely 156 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,440 try and censor things and, and they try and block things they 157 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,920 don't, they think are make them look bad, but they're not very 158 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,440 good at it. So in that sense, I, I, I know 159 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,640 where they're, I understand where they're coming from, put 160 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,400 it that way, which is not to, which is not to justify their, 161 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,560 their decision. When somebody starts rethinking 162 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:33,720 their views on China, I suppose the obvious starting point is 163 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,400 trying to re establish what the CCP or the CPC means and what 164 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,480 its relation to China actually is. 165 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,440 Well, that's kind of a, it is a sensitive talk about social 166 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,960 media because you'll, you can really see if people on social 167 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,560 media, particularly on X, they refer to the CCP, then you can 168 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:56,320 kind of, you can usually guess where they're getting their 169 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,120 information from. Because that's not the official 170 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,280 term that's used to describe the Communist Party, which is the 171 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Communist Party of China, CPC, not the Chinese Communist Party, 172 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,240 CCP. That's a Western term. 173 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,840 Not that it really makes that much difference, but it is kind 174 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,640 of a hint at where they're getting information from. 175 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:19,160 Because you have to know that there are these very well funded 176 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,400 propaganda factories in the West. 177 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,800 And there's particularly this 1X account called Song Ping Ank 178 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:32,000 that produces, I'm sure they must have 20304050. 179 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Thus far, I think they have somewhere around 4 or 500,000 180 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:43,600 videos that they've shared that are also basically 99% of them 181 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:49,000 were either fake or completely twisted so that their content is 182 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,400 has no relationship. Their alleged content has no 183 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,840 relationship with what they're what, what is really being 184 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,640 shown. So they'll show you a video and 185 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,840 they'll, they'll explain it in a way that is makes no sense. 186 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,160 So for example, they had a, they had a video once they were a 187 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,200 couple years ago, they, they showed a video of a fence and 188 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,960 they said it was to keep people out from escaping out of China. 189 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,320 And they showed people on the fence. 190 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,480 But actually what it was showing was the opposite. 191 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,760 It's defense there is to keep people from coming into China. 192 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,720 So they just turned it completely around, right? 193 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,360 And then, but if you don't, if you're not used to that, 194 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,800 expecting that, then they get away with it, right? 195 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,240 They, they're showing you a real video, but they're giving you 196 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,360 the completely inaccurate explanation of it. 197 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,960 That said, I must say a number of them are completely fake, 198 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,360 like a lot of the ones that refer to the social credit 199 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,880 system, so-called. They're completely fake in the 200 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,400 sense they're showing you from this absolute relationship with 201 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,880 what what they're talking about is ultimately, this is the 202 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,400 social credit system. And they might show you, for 203 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:58,320 example, somebody's credit score on their phone for a normal 204 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,880 credit score, like most countries have. 205 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,680 China has them as well. And they tell this is the, this 206 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:06,440 is the social credit. It's of course incorrect. 207 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,960 But my favorite ones are the ones where they show people 208 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,800 crossing the street and they say, if you jaywalk, then then 209 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,760 there's the voiceover that claims this, right? 210 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,240 Then, then you're, they show a picture of the, of the person on 211 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,720 a big screen there. And this is persons they found 212 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,200 you through the face recognition. 213 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,200 And then they say you automatically get fined so on so 214 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,560 much and it gets deducted from your WeChat account, which would 215 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,400 be really incredibly sophisticated. 216 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,120 But this is of course complete fantasy. 217 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,200 But if people would know, you know, they get they, they get 218 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:36,360 away with it, right? And the people, of course, 219 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,280 anytime soon as anybody comes to China and me, do they realize 220 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,520 that that stuff is not true. But if you don't know and you 221 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,960 and you and you are here sort of predisposed, you have been fed 222 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,480 this, this, this idea for the past 10 years that China's 223 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,320 totalitarian dystopia or the government surveils everything 224 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,600 and controls everything and is extremely capable of dealing 225 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,000 with all this data, then you believe it, right? 226 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,120 We all know it's that it's that bias. 227 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,000 I believed it. It's understandable. 228 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,640 I mean, you, you've had this prop, this propaganda that has 229 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,920 been constantly delivered since 2008. 230 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,480 That's when it started. And you know, with 2008 to now 231 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,800 or 2025, it's, that's a long time for some people. 232 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,320 It's all of their lifetimes, their adult lifetimes. 233 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,840 They've, they've had that from the since, since they, they 234 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,280 began to try and understand the world. 235 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,760 They've heard that. And so if you deliver anything 236 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,440 along those lines, they think, well, that's what I've heard so 237 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,520 many times. It must be true. 238 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,160 It's understandable, but that's the that's the that's the 239 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,920 miracle of propaganda. And that's something the Chinese 240 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,080 government is completely incapable of delivering that 241 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,920 type of long term campaign. They just don't have that. 242 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,840 They just don't have that level of sophistication or even 243 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:52,680 perspective to deliver that type of long term type of propaganda 244 00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:54,560 plan. Not that they don't try, but 245 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,200 that's way beyond their scope of what they're capable of. 246 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,960 I know you've dealt with this question a number of times, but 247 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,160 Scott, it keeps coming up. So let's just premise the rest 248 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,400 of the conversation on this. The Communist Party of China, 249 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,760 the word communist, this gets everybody every time. 250 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,280 And it, it happened again with me the last few days. 251 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:15,800 Ah, but they have the word communist. 252 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,800 They're commies. Well, yeah, yeah. 253 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,960 It's like it's we, as we often say, it's like you think just 254 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,400 because the Democratic Party of of in the United States calls 255 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,680 themselves Democratic, that they are Democrats, whatever that 256 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,440 means. I mean, it's just a name, right? 257 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,880 And I think that once if you compare it the situation in 258 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,000 other places, you'll realize that's exactly what it is. 259 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,560 North Korea also says Democratic. 260 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,840 It's nice that they're democratic, right? 261 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,120 In all the countries in Eastern Europe, they also call 262 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,800 themselves democratic, right? So whatever that means. 263 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,560 But I mean, I think on objective standards, if you were if the 264 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,760 differentiations between communist organization of 265 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,320 society and let's say a capitalist organization, which 266 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,720 is not the exact opposites, but just for the sake of argument, 267 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,400 we'll pretend it is. Well then I'd say I think it's 268 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,240 one can quite objectively say that China is less, is more 269 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,120 capitalist and less communist than certainly any country in 270 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,120 the West by far. And that's just really in terms 271 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:23,400 of the, the role of the state in society, which is the level of 272 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,480 control that it has and the level of competition in China 273 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,680 that you have in most industries is far, far more intense than in 274 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,520 the West. And you also literally you have 275 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,160 China accumulates much, much more capital than any any other 276 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,160 Western country. It's a huge capital accumulation 277 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,880 machine, which is really the, the essence of capitalism. 278 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,640 People often forget that. And so despite all this falls 279 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,120 and China has a lot of waste, right? 280 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,640 There's a lot of bad investment out there, but at the end of the 281 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,080 day, it's still the amount of capital being accumulated is 282 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,760 enormous. And if you look at the sad 283 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,440 situation in places like the United States, for example, if 284 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,160 there's any capital being committed at all, it's not much. 285 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,560 I mean, there is real investment there, but when you subtract out 286 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,800 the the the replacement factor, what needs to be replaced, how 287 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,080 much is on the net really going into new investment and 288 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,720 productive capital in the USI guess it's probably not too 289 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:24,080 high. OK, so let's just quickly hover 290 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,640 around that for a second opening businesses doing business in 291 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,320 China. Again, one of the tropes is 292 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,360 everything is controlled by the by the Chinese government. 293 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Right. Well, actually let me that, that 294 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,440 reminds me of a story that we, we just mentioned prior to this 295 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,040 discussion. And that is the story of the 296 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,680 Smithfield Company or when I raised that to you, it's a, it's 297 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:53,880 a American company that specialized in the, the swine 298 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:55,640 raising industry. And I believe in the US they 299 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,520 have like an 80% of the, the, the pig production. 300 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,720 And that company was bought something like 15 years ago, 301 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:07,839 maybe not quite that. I can't remember these that it's 302 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:12,960 something like that by a Hong Kong with a Hong Kong based 303 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:19,240 company. That company was originally a 304 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:25,599 state-run Chinese company back in the day 1995, but eventually 305 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,400 privatized. And at the time when it when it 306 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,600 acquired Smithfield and I'll get a minute to explain why how I'm 307 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,640 getting this. It was actually I think 308 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,680 controlled by Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs, they invested in 309 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:42,680 it and this is about Smithfield and if they still own Smithfield 310 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,840 now eventually Goldman Sachs cashed out. 311 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,760 They went public in Hong Kong. Now it seems to be even the most 312 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,560 part controlled by its leading managers. 313 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,040 Think they have about 40% of the shares. 314 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,200 But if you listen to the reporting about this company in 315 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,320 the US, there's this constant discussion of how the Chinese 316 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,160 own all of our farmland. They're buying up all of our 317 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:02,880 farmland. And just recently there was 318 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,640 this, there was a piece by that RFK Junior did talking about 319 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,720 this and he specifically mentioned this example of 320 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,120 Smithfield. He said yes. 321 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,520 And they, they control 80% of the of the pig production in the 322 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,480 US and they all controls land and it's owned by the Chinese, 323 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,120 right? The China owned by China. 324 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,840 I can't remember if he said China or if he said by the 325 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,000 Chinese, but that's so typical is that all China is binded of 326 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,040 China owns. It's not China. 327 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,680 It's a Hong Kong listed company that partially belongs to 328 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,120 BlackRock, right? It's so this is so typical. 329 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,800 And then, you know, when we talk about the thing with China, is 330 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,920 the topic of the discussion or anything related to China that 331 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,520 this is oh, the Chinese bought or the Chinese owner or China 332 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,000 owns. But no, it's just some person or 333 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,360 some Chinese company. It's not the same thing as the 334 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:49,240 government, right? I mean, maybe the government in 335 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,560 some cases has some share of it, but at the end of the day, most 336 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,440 companies, so most of the productive companies in China 337 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,440 are privately run. The figure is roughly 20. 338 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,680 No, it's roughly 75%. That's of the of the value 339 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,440 adequate in China comes from privately run companies, 340 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,400 including foreign investment companies. 341 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,200 So 25% is comes from the state, but they're producing almost 342 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,760 none of the new jobs, none of the very little of the export. 343 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,240 Basically, they're, they tend to be state monopolies or very, 344 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,040 very large heavy industry monoliths, like all steel, for 345 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,080 example, British and steel or in the telecom industry. 346 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,360 So those, yes, they're the state is heavily, heavily present, but 347 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,040 they're not the ones that are driving the economy. 348 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,040 And it just went, as we all know that wouldn't, that wouldn't 349 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,520 work, right? It wouldn't work. 350 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,280 And people, it's so funny because you see people often on 351 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,600 the right in the West talking about the this talking about 352 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,720 China, the danger of China and so on. 353 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,320 And it seems like they, they're you'd think that they would 354 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,120 understand that, that if, if things were really as they seem 355 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,160 to imagine that the state were running everything, it would 356 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,240 never work. It would be a disaster. 357 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,120 It would be exactly what happened in China 4050 years ago 358 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:04,360 when the whole economy collapsed. 359 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:05,760 So yes, that that's what happened. 360 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,080 The state was running everything and it was a disaster. 361 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,760 And all the use of all the capital, people were starving. 362 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,440 It doesn't work and everybody knows it doesn't work. 363 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,360 So the funniest basis of funny thing that people imagine? 364 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,960 That could possibly work. And certainly that that that 365 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,800 they somehow managed to imagine that China with this this setup 366 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,920 that they seem to believe in or the state runs everything, 367 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,840 actually managed to dominate most of the industry in the 368 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,360 world and most, most sectors of the economy in the world are 369 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,800 dominated by Chinese exporters. How could that be possible? 370 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,360 Is it always because they pay subsidies? 371 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,880 No, you cannot. You cannot come to dominate the 372 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,800 world's economy by paying tariffs and tariffs or tariffs 373 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,120 or whatever. But no, you have the only way 374 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,440 you can get this, by being competitive. 375 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,360 You can't become the competitive by being run by the state. 376 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:59,080 The state is absolute way beyond its scope of handling anything 377 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,040 like that. Yeah, as I was saying, one of 378 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:06,160 the triggers for me is why is China always the target of the 379 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:12,080 Western industrial complex? Is there industrial complex or 380 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,600 is there is is the the political elite the political? 381 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,800 OK, yeah, politically that's good enough. 382 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,360 I, I mean, I'm not, I, I'm not Privy to their conversations, 383 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,760 but I would, I would, I think we can all make a guess that it's 384 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,680 for good reasons in the sense that they are afraid of China as 385 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,120 a competitor. I think that certainly is the 386 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,960 logical explanation. And there's that, that that's a 387 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,480 reasonable fear. But as Trump himself said back 388 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,320 in 2016, you know, he said that we have China and the US have a 389 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,640 have a bad deal. But I don't blame the Chinese 390 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,240 for it. It was mutual. 391 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,480 I didn't use exactly those exact words, but that's pretty much 392 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,360 what it boiled down to. I mean, it was that this whole 393 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,720 setup they've been running for the last 25 years with if 394 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,440 China's been allowed to accumulate massive export 395 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,840 surpluses and the US and and Western Europe to an extent have 396 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,040 deindustrialized. That was completely agreed on a 397 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,640 high level between the leadership of China and the 398 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,760 West. I mean, they were both in on it. 399 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,200 It could not have happened without complete collusion on 400 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,360 both sides. They all had to be on in on it. 401 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,200 And I don't, I don't, my personal opinion, as you 402 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,400 probably recall, is that it's not a very good deal for it's 403 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,720 neither a good deal for China nor for the rest of the world. 404 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,320 Why should China be dominating all of these industries? 405 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,120 Why can't their the play a little bit, a little bit more 406 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:46,880 even and give companies in some other countries a chance to 407 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,040 compete? I but I don't think it's you 408 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,720 can, you can't blame that all in China either. 409 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,040 It's really, it was both sides that were that were in on the 410 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,080 steel. And where we are now, it is 411 00:22:55,120 --> 00:23:00,240 we're in a difficult situation because because of the economies 412 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,040 of scale in so many industries, it is very, very difficult for 413 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,800 Western companies to compete with China. 414 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,720 And but we have this bizarre situation where China in so many 415 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,480 areas is producing everything for the entire world. 416 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,760 And it's, it can keep doing that and and in return, it's 417 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,040 accumulated ever larger amounts of debt, right. 418 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,600 The rest of the world owes China. 419 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,640 I don't see what's in it for China. 420 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,000 I think that that it would be a much better deal to may even the 421 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,600 playing field a bit, not with tariffs, but just by adjusting 422 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,640 the exchange rate and giving the Western companies a little bit 423 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,320 better chance. But our government doesn't want 424 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,480 to do that. So so there we are. 425 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,880 But but you were you were alluding to the fact that the 426 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,480 Chinese government is not actually all that brilliant. 427 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,160 They make a lot of mistakes and bad judgement calls. 428 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,000 I yeah, I'd say that's definitely one of them in my 429 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,200 opinion. And because they, what they're 430 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,080 doing is they're trying to, they're trying to harken back to 431 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,200 their, their wishful thinking of a planned economy. 432 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:16,480 And they, they, they see that China is, there's a well, first 433 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,200 of all, the, the, the government is running a huge deficit. 434 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,040 And the reason that one of the reasons they're doing that is 435 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,120 because they are not cutting taxes, because companies are not 436 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:29,880 investing and, or they are investing, but they're investing 437 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,720 less than they, they, they wouldn't in a real, in a real, 438 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:41,040 let's say, balanced economy. And the reason for that 439 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,200 ultimately is because the Chinese government is still 440 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,960 interfering too much, at least that's my opinion. 441 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,880 They're still trying to favor certain sectors. 442 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,240 And mostly what they're doing is they're, they're forcing A 443 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,360 unrealistic exchange rate on the economy. 444 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,120 So if they were to allow the exchange rate to compare to a 445 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,960 normal level, that's which I'd say it has to be at half of 446 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,520 where we are now, then there would be some adjustment. 447 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,960 And yes, OK, some of the Chinese Expo industries would drop off a 448 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,280 little bit. But then there would be other 449 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,320 competitions. You could things would become 450 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,120 much more cheaper and much cheaper to import. 451 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,960 We could import many more services from the West, not only 452 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,680 product all the services and things would have a way of 453 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,600 balancing themselves out. But if the government insists 454 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,200 and saying, OK, what, so we have all these unemployed people and 455 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,520 what are we going to do? And let's let's subsidized the 456 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,280 electric car industry, right? But to then the electric cars it 457 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,480 grows and grows and grows, but then produces too much, right. 458 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,360 So this is all the problem with central planning. 459 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,000 I don't create the wrong impression to to give the idea 460 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,600 that that China's central planet centrally planning everything. 461 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,000 They aren't. But but the one that sectors 462 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,040 they do try and centrally plan almost all basically create what 463 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,320 in Austria in terms we would call malinvestment. 464 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,920 They're they're putting too much money in the sector and as a 465 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,920 result, the in the electric car and in the car industry in 466 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,600 general now prices in China are half the level they are outside 467 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,840 of China. You get the exact same car here 468 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,480 for the half of what you get in the rest of it. 469 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,200 Not only electric cars, but even even petrol driven cars. 470 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,120 It's because the competition is so intense here. 471 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,480 So everybody's losing money, right? 472 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,320 It's just, it's, it's, it's really, it's not a good 473 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,160 solution, right? It's all because the government 474 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,240 is, is, has tried to push that sector. 475 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,040 So it hurts the, it hurts the competition in the West, but 476 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,160 also hurts China. It's nobody, nobody's profiting 477 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,720 from this. So they should just, if the 478 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,520 Austrian perspective, they should just let things go and 479 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,440 the market will sort things out. They'll find useful things to 480 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,440 do. But right now all these plants 481 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,240 are occupied producing cars and people are occupied. 482 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,560 Free the people, free the plants, and they'll find 483 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,160 something more productive to do, something that's profitable, 484 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,480 right? That's the Austrian perspective. 485 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,560 And I think at some point the government's going to do going 486 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,920 to do wise nap to this, but they're not quite there yet. 487 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:00,040 Yeah, In South Africa we have a massive influx of Chinese cars 488 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:07,040 and they're a lot better priced than than the, let's say, 489 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,760 European cause. In fact, I think it was Volvo 490 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,640 that put out a plea to our government a few months ago 491 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,960 asking to put penalties on Chinese car imports. 492 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,560 Really. But don't forget, Volvo is 493 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,720 Chinese, Volvo is. Chinese then? 494 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,280 Then maybe it wasn't Volvo, but it was a European manufacturer. 495 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,640 I forget now who it was, I don't know. 496 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,560 Volvo is Chinese, Is that true? Yes, it was bought by China, but 497 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,680 they're one of our big customers, I know. 498 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,240 So yes. I didn't know that. 499 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,960 That's fascinating. But anyway, the point I was 500 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,080 making is that the old trope of Chinese goods being cheap junk 501 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,160 is gone. I mean, Chinese calls are are 502 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,920 incredible. They're incredible. 503 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,720 My next call will be China, hands down. 504 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,080 It is true. You're, you're right. 505 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,240 And, and, and so there some of the parts of the world, no doubt 506 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,520 in China as well. We also benefit from this from 507 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,920 the, the, the intensive competition and you know, 508 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,400 quality goes up, prices go down. But I'm just saying, at the end 509 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,080 of the day, those that would, that those funds, probably those 510 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,520 resources could be used elsewhere better. 511 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,080 There's too much, too many resources going into that 512 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,720 industry. But yeah, of course, yeah, we 513 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,320 all find that. We all probably all benefit from 514 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,680 it. Yeah, the cars are wonderful. 515 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,880 And the, and, and you know, I used to long ago, I used to work 516 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,960 for Mercedes-Benz. And we back in the day, we 517 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,600 Mercedes-Benz, we had our own strengths, but we really look to 518 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,000 Toyota as the example of how to produce things economically and 519 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,280 be sort of cutting edge in terms of quality management. 520 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,560 And that's now been taken over completely by China. 521 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760 And even now Mercedes-Benz is planning to use in the future, 522 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,160 it's planning to use Chinese built engines for art for 523 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,520 everything. You mentioned Mercedes-Benz, 524 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,080 they were one of the worst performing cars in South Africa 525 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,320 in terms of sales, and it's Audi, not Volvo. 526 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,960 Does Audi that that? Yeah, they contacted the 527 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,120 government. Ridiculous though. 528 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,960 I mean just make it. I mean the rest of the profits 529 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,520 from and it is true. I mean they they are very 530 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,720 efficient and they are like you say, I mean in terms of quality, 531 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,880 in terms of the feature set, it's hard to beat, that's true. 532 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,720 There is censorship in China, there's censorship everywhere, 533 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,000 there's censorship across Europe, in the UK even. 534 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,520 I mean, look what's going on now in the UK. 535 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,640 Yeah, I mean, I'm not in the UK, so I'm always hesitant to judge 536 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,160 places that where I'm not personally and because I don't 537 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,480 know how much I'm getting is propaganda and how much is that 538 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,960 accurate. But it's certainly, it sounds 539 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,200 pretty shocking when you read the numbers of allegedly several 540 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,720 1000 people in prison for comments on social media. 541 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,680 I think in China that would be unimaginable. 542 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,960 Just as a point of comparison, I'm no big fan of Chinese 543 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,800 censorship policy. In fact, as you probably know, 544 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,840 I've ridiculed it many times because I think it's ridiculous. 545 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,760 That's the only word that comes to mind. 546 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,320 But while it's ridiculous, it's not particularly totalitarian. 547 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,000 It's very rare for people to go to prison for something. 548 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,640 They were on social media here. It's almost unheard of. 549 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,800 I, I can think of a few examples I know of. 550 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,200 But really, these people were people that just kept at it. 551 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,240 And the government would tell them like, oh, we're going to 552 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,640 please cool it, cool it, cool it. 553 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,960 And then and then like the ones that are parading on the street 554 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,480 demonstrating. And so eventually, if you keep 555 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,960 pushing them, eventually, yes, they will, but they will put you 556 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,640 in prison. But you have to work really hard 557 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,960 at it because they're just, it's not part of the Chinese system. 558 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,040 So what typically happens here, if they, you write something 559 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,880 they don't like, then, well, first of all, the most likely 560 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,440 thing is not just delete it, if they even noticed it at all. 561 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,320 But I mean, there are so many billions of comments all the 562 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,200 time. Most of the stuff never gets 563 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,680 noticed at all anyway. But if, even if there's 564 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,280 something that that that gets noticed, first of all, they're 565 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,000 likely to delete it. But if you keep doing it over 566 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,760 and over again, the things that really irritate them, then 567 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,120 eventually you might get a call. What they typically do is 568 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,840 they'll call your employer or your parents and they'll say you 569 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:09,600 know, XYZ If the person is, let's say under 30 or so is, you 570 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,200 know, a little over over overdoing it. 571 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:17,160 Tell him to cool it over 30, more likely to come to his 572 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,000 inmate, more likely to go to his employer. 573 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,240 We actually gotten calls like that before one of our well, 574 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,720 actually, actually actually I only know of two cases. 575 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,360 One I can think of here in Shanghai where one of our 576 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,880 employees talking about he was writing stuff about something 577 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,400 about the Philippines and the situation there with them. 578 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,640 And there was, I don't know, in that case, he was written 579 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,280 something they didn't like. So they written a message on 580 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,280 multiple occasions. So they asked us to have a 581 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,120 discussion with him and tell him be cool. 582 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,520 That's kind of typical. This other possibility is that 583 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,120 if you, they might actually call you to give a statement to the 584 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,800 police. And so then the police call you 585 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,120 out and they say, yeah, well, you said stuff, you know, it's 586 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:00,400 difficult. Why don't you come down and have 587 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,360 a talk with us? That's also happens. 588 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,760 I know several things like that, but it's quite civilized. 589 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,840 I'm not mostly I'm not supporting this policy. 590 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,920 But they don't, you don't come in like in the US, you don't 591 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,040 have people coming in at 5:00 AM with the SWAT team to raid your 592 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,960 house, breaking down your door. That just doesn't happen. 593 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,440 They just call you and they say, well, you know, you come to the 594 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,440 police. They didn't get a statement, 595 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,320 which is rather this device that said, of course, that as I 596 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,560 mentioned earlier, a lot of the the restrictions are, are 597 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,360 ridiculous. Like my favorite example is 598 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,120 you're not allowed to mention the name of the great ruler, the 599 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,480 the party secretary, dental secretary, President Paddock. 600 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,600 You can't mention his name and you can't even elude to him with 601 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,880 references. It's not it's because only the 602 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,520 official media is allowed to do that. 603 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,680 I mean, that's that's just ridiculous. 604 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,160 Why? That's the reason. 605 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,040 I don't know it's I'm not Privy to their conversations, but it's 606 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,520 just one of their rules, right? And even the police, even the 607 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,040 police think it's stupid, right? So like I, I know the case 608 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,080 someone they were in a, in a private group and they chat 609 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,480 group and they were talking about, they were alluding to him 610 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440 by reference. And then as like the honored one 611 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,160 or something like that. And they got called the police 612 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,920 and the police thought the whole thing was poor silly. 613 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,160 Anyway, they said, why don't you just write that you'll never do 614 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,920 it so it won't do it again. And that's over, right? 615 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,880 And it's both positive and negative. 616 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:26,240 You can't speak about him. Yeah, you can't and praise him, 617 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,720 right? That's it's ridiculous. 618 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,120 I mean, no other word to describe it, right? 619 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,640 And everybody thinks it's ridiculous, right? 620 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,160 So I'm sure that in the UK you don't have that right. 621 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,960 So, so you can't say it's all, it's all black or white. 622 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,360 So in the UK you can talk, I'm sure you can talk about Starmer 623 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160 all you want. Well, maybe you can't, but you 624 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,320 can probably at least get away with mentioning his name. 625 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,800 But here you can't. So in that sense, China is much 626 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,960 less free than the UK. But probably in the level, let's 627 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,360 say in the civilized approach towards censorship, I'd say 628 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,360 China wins hands down. And there are also interesting 629 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,720 topics that are very different in sort of Western countries. 630 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,960 You you can't, for example, in most Western countries question 631 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,719 the Holocaust or even, as Trump wanted to do recently, criticize 632 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,920 Israel. He wanted to criminalize those. 633 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,000 He said he wants to criminalize anybody who who criticizes 634 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,280 Israel. If, if, if, if those are things 635 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,320 that you find someone finds, let's say, relevant to discuss, 636 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,880 then China's a good place to do that because you will never get 637 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,040 arrested here with that. And Chinese social media is full 638 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,960 of such disguise. However, one once again, once 639 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,800 again, I mean, once again, like this, for example, one of the 640 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,480 things that I would say about the current situation in the 641 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,639 Middle East is that the Chinese government has done absolutely 642 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,199 nothing in terms of deeds to back up its words. 643 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,480 And I would say that's worthy of substantial criticism. 644 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,520 But you won't find that in China's social media. 645 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,880 You can't protest either like the Chinese government doesn't 646 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,640 like people. Protesting. 647 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,520 They don't like people protesting in the street. 648 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,440 They really don't like that. So if you really want to get 649 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,240 yourself in trouble, then you go protest in the street. 650 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,160 So it's difficult to be a political cartoonist in China. 651 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,240 Yeah, you can. Well, there are a lot of 652 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:24,600 cartoons. In fact, there's some really 653 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:25,960 good ones that work for Global Times. 654 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,400 They're they're they're they're outlet. 655 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:32,800 They make a lot of really good cartoons ridiculing the West, 656 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,160 but you can't ridicule things related to China. 657 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,480 That's true. So once again, I'm not a fan of 658 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:41,960 that. I'm not, I'm not trying to, I'm 659 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,120 not trying to defend that system at all. 660 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,040 I'm just saying if you, if you do do an objective comparison 661 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,440 with other countries that are also practicing various forms of 662 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,280 censorship, China doesn't come off all, all too bad. 663 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,360 I'd say on average, the US is still the country with the least 664 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,360 amount of censorship that I'm, that I'm aware of where you 665 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,920 really do the most. But in the US office, if you 666 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,280 talk about forbidden topics, then the danger, of course, is 667 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,480 that you face a loss of income and that you will be ostracized 668 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,480 or, you know, deed taken off various social media sites and 669 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,880 try to kind of do the same thing in a way, except that obviously, 670 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,120 once again, like you mentioned, the topics are different 671 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,960 forbidden. But if you, if you send too 672 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,840 often, for example, you can get your, your WeChat account can be 673 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,080 prevented from making comments. Or in the worst case you can 674 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,480 actually your WeChat account can get completely frozen and yes, 675 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,600 you have to open up a new one, which case you lose all your 676 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,880 contacts, but. You call that the Singaporean 677 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,840 route, didn't you? No, that was the Singaporean 678 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,720 model that was really referring to. 679 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,800 That's one approach that Chinese takes towards keeping stopping 680 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,880 people from saying things they don't like, and that is by 681 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,440 finding companies. There was that case that we 682 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,000 reported about a couple of years ago where this comedy production 683 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,440 company, one of their top comedians, had made some joke 684 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,760 which was taken to be insulting to the army, and they fined them 685 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,840 almost $2,000,000 for this joke and then banned them from 686 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,720 appearing for a month or so. I think that was the This is 687 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:22,280 Singapore universe because this is Singapore kind of I think 688 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,080 they were kind of pioneers in that area of trying to suppress 689 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,920 political opposition by basically finding people out of 690 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,280 existence. They're just enormous fines. 691 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,880 The ability to OK, OK, I get it. I get it. 692 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,520 They were like, well, they wouldn't imprison them, but they 693 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,720 just make it economically to to the price too high. 694 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:44,560 So China does use that approach as well, but more for companies 695 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,120 like that for individuals, not so much for individuals. 696 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,800 It's just like I said what I said story I told you before. 697 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,240 I think the undercurrent so far is that is that China is a, is a 698 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:55,800 normal country. It's not special. 699 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,560 It's not unusually different to any other country. 700 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,760 It has its own challenges and it's good as good things and bad 701 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,640 things. The government makes good 702 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,520 decisions and makes bad decisions like every other 703 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,160 country. Another bad decision was the 704 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,800 COVID response in 2020. Yeah, I think and that's 705 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,720 certainly true. It was, I think their initial 706 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:20,280 response didn't work out as well, well at all. 707 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,120 But to be fair, I think if we go back and look at the record, we 708 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:30,040 can see that what China did in February of 2020 was exactly 709 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,800 what was written in that lockstep scenario that the 710 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,920 Rockefeller Foundation put out in in 2010. 711 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,720 And they obviously had that in their drawers, and they pulled 712 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,640 it out of the drawer and just did exactly what was written 713 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,960 there. And they did that for about two 714 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,040 months. And then somebody said this is 715 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,120 not working and we can't keep doing this. 716 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,920 And then they changed course. So like also the whole thing 717 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,880 with the ventilators was obviously not working. 718 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,840 And it took them about four to six weeks to figure that out. 719 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,200 And of course, the amazing was by the time that China had 720 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,760 figured it out that this ventilator thing wasn't working, 721 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,720 that was when New York was saying we have to buy 500,000 722 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:20,200 ventilators, right? So the West went whole hog at 723 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,520 the moment when China actually already figured out this was not 724 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,840 working at all. And also the whole lockdown 725 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,440 thing was not, it was not sustainable, right? 726 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,240 So the, and they, they pretty quickly figured that out. 727 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:34,000 So then they went to a much more localized approach, which in the 728 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,800 end also ended up being unsustainable, but it was 729 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,960 certainly much more sustainable than their their initial 730 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,560 approach, which was the one they practiced in places like New 731 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,400 Zealand, for example, where they actually locked down the whole 732 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,920 country for long periods of time, which is getting 733 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,840 incredible to believe that any, anybody could be so stupid as to 734 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,440 believe that would actually work. 735 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,200 But it's like they were you, you look at what's going on, How can 736 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,400 they be so dense and not realize this is not going to work? 737 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,400 Right. Well, at least China realized 738 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,800 that was not sustainable. So the other so they stopped and 739 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,680 they went to a very, very localized and sometimes 740 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,040 localized down the point of the individual like block area. 741 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,600 They said it will quarantine just this individual block and 742 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,840 that's it. And then we won't the economy 743 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,280 would collapse. You can't do that. 744 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,320 Later on, they, I think they, they also made a really the, the 745 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,000 one of the most stupid thing was that they did was they didn't 746 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,880 realize. They didn't, Well, they did 747 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,280 realize, but the central government refused to accept 748 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,560 this whole quarantine approach was not going to work anyway, no 749 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,720 matter what. Even the more, the more focused 750 00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:31,960 quarantine approach they use is also going to be ultimately a 751 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,360 failure. And it was clear by even the 752 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,560 beginning of 2022 that was not going to work. 753 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,200 And they just the, the, the central leadership in Beijing 754 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,600 refused to accept the obvious, but eventually reality overcame 755 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,720 them, as we know in 2022. And they they gave in and. 756 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,440 But yeah, Scott, Scott, come on, we all know the Chinese 757 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,880 government welded people's doors shut. 758 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000 Right, That was one. That's a very, that's a good 759 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,360 example because that's a great example of the, the, the, the 760 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,880 effectiveness of propaganda. And it really it, it's a, it's a 761 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,280 good example of the concept of, of, of generalization. 762 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,520 I mean, I don't know if that even happened at all. 763 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,400 It's possible maybe it did happen somewhere that somebody 764 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,680 was welded in, which is almost impossible to leave, but maybe 765 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,720 it did happen. But if it did happen, it, it was 766 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:28,440 a massive violation of the fire, fire regulations. 767 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,000 And you'd have to be insanely that that would, that would, 768 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,720 that would, that would be sustainable and certainly never 769 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,840 happened on a large scale. And probably if it was actually 770 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,160 happened, whoever did it was probably disciplined for it 771 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,960 because it's crazy. It's insane, right? 772 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,240 Another good example is an even better one. 773 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:53,480 In fact, is the it's a story about the the pets being being 774 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,640 killed. That was one of the other 775 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,920 favorites that went around WW in social media for for probably 776 00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,960 more than years. Yes, this the Chinese are 777 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,000 killing all the all the house pets. 778 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,680 Well, that story actually did that went back. 779 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,160 There was a piece of truth, a brain of truth, and that it 780 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,160 actually did happen once. In fact, it was here in Shanghai 781 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,640 and some crazy official did actually apparently kill some 782 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,560 dog and it appeared pretty quickly after that in the 783 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:25,040 newspaper and the the government attitude was this this guy lost 784 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,120 it and this is I was not acceptable. 785 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,120 We can't have that. But so it was actually in 786 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,440 internally in China, it was over pretty quickly. 787 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,120 It was recognized, reported on. No, this is something officially 788 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,400 going overboard, but in the Western social media and not the 789 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,480 mainstream media, but the social media that became what's that 790 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,840 word called? What do you call that in 791 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,880 English? When it's just that it gets 792 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,760 repeated over and over and over and over and over again. 793 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,360 And then it was all of this very general state, like the Chinese 794 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,560 are killing all the house pets is really was going back to one 795 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,360 incident, right? And that is it was generalized 796 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,160 and people in their own sphere. They're they're, I think most 797 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,880 people are aware of this issue of generalization, but when it's 798 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,960 something from China far away that has this or this terrible 799 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,760 reputation of the government controlling everything, then 800 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,680 people are more likely to believe it, even though it's 801 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,760 just a typical example of of over. 802 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,760 Generalization. What's another example of over 803 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,280 generalization within the Chinese context? 804 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,440 Cryptocurrency. I'm trying to think now if, if 805 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,360 there is a there's an overlap there because that's a big topic 806 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,640 at the moment with with the US and stable coins. 807 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:42,400 I'd say that's another that's an example of the Chinese 808 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:48,880 government's inability to face reality and to let's say their 809 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,280 ambition in terms of control is much higher than their, their, 810 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:57,160 their ability. So the cryptocurrency industry 811 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,320 was really centered in China for many years until 2017. 812 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,720 And still even today, many of the largest exchanges in the 813 00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:09,520 world of Chinese, for example, finance is, is still one one of 814 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,200 the that's probably still officially the the largest, 815 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,160 which is it was usually originally based here in 816 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,520 Shanghai. And then in 2017, the government 817 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,560 decided they didn't like cryptocurrency anymore because 818 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,120 they felt it was it was infringing on their control of 819 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,760 financial flows, which is kind of true. 820 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,640 But instead of trying to regulate the industry, 821 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:35,080 eventually they decided to just ban it, which I'd say it was a 822 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,320 really big mistake because now did they destroy a bunch of 823 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,000 their really good companies or or hurt them significantly? 824 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,920 But then they actually made it impossible for them to work with 825 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,360 the exchanges to deal with, for example, fraud. 826 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,280 And we have a big problem all around the world, but certainly 827 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,200 in China we also have a big problem with fraud to be 828 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,120 defrauding elderly. And then when they, when the 829 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,120 fraudsters want to go along with that money, they, they typically 830 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,640 launder it into stable, into USDUSDT stable funds, which is 831 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,120 kind of the, the number one black market currency both in 832 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,920 China and all across Southeast Asia. 833 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,680 So in the old days, what would happen is the police would just 834 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,240 go to the major exchange and say, please help us, we have 835 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,600 this case black money, whatever crime, please help us out and 836 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,000 deal with it. But now they can't do that 837 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,480 because it's all illegal. So now they have no, they have 838 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,600 the police have no recourse. There's no official recourse. 839 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,480 Sometimes there, there's some, you know, they're unofficially, 840 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,360 they say, oh, we know this person in such and such town is 841 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,920 like the local money change and he'll do it. 842 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,280 And then maybe the police know the guy and they'll work some 843 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,920 deal with him in the, you know, back back office. 844 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,560 But it's, it's makes it much more difficult to deal with. 845 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,040 And that's that's I think it's a good example of of refusing, 846 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,560 refusing to face up to the reality that this is going to 847 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,960 exist whether you permit it or not. 848 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,120 You might as well come up with a system that allows you to 849 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,800 actually work with the people in, in the industry instead of 850 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,400 just, you know, pretending it doesn't exist. 851 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,360 So once again, there, I guess you could say governments in 852 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,200 general make that mistake because we what we intended, we, 853 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,600 we, our intention was good, right? 854 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,880 Well, don't, but you didn't look at the result. 855 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,560 The results is bad because it doesn't matter what your 856 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,520 intention for that, You know, you in particular just going out 857 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,320 right and banning things, that's rarely leads to good result. 858 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,680 Same thing goes with the education industry where they a 859 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,680 couple years ago the government said, oh, the children haven't 860 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,880 studied too much. It's too much work and it's too 861 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,840 expensive for the parents. They keep sending their kids to 862 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,160 these external schools to, you know, get them ahead in school. 863 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,760 So the government basically banned the whole tutoring 864 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,400 industry overnight, which is crazy, right? 865 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,760 And so you destroyed a whole bunch of a whole bunch of of, 866 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,080 of, of jobs. Didn't completely destroy the 867 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,480 companies. Some of the companies survive, 868 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,400 but still, it was a big, it was a big blow to them. 869 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,920 But did did the tutoring industry disappear? 870 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,200 No, no, no, I kept going. And of course, the Chinese are 871 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:53,600 not going to stop tutoring their kids. 872 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,160 Are you kidding? The, the idea that anybody could 873 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,640 have believed that they would actually ever work was, is, is 874 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,320 ludicrous. Chinese are the most education 875 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,560 oriented people in the world. They're not going to stop 876 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,800 tutoring their kids. So what happened? 877 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,160 Well, the prices went up. So what happened to the people 878 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,000 that were a little bit poor? The family's a little bit poor. 879 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,280 They got edged out of the market, so they couldn't afford 880 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:14,760 anymore. That was the result. 881 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,560 It wasn't, it wasn't that the kids had less, less pressure or 882 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,280 the parents got to save some more money. 883 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040 No, no, the parents had to spend more money now. 884 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,000 So instead of looking at the results, they all our intentions 885 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,000 were good. So of course, as anybody could 886 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,520 have expected, a year or two later, the government, you know, 887 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,400 we said well, OK, yeah, we have our parents that never. 888 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,240 But I think, Scott, that's the that's the other generalization 889 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,200 that I was referring to earlier is that the the Chinese 890 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,840 government is this well oiled machine that is always ahead of 891 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,000 the curve. It's it's. 892 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,080 Exactly right. And they're not at all they're 893 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,360 they're not at all. And and I'll give you another 894 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,680 example. We mentioned that earlier that, 895 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,240 that this recent Tantrae case with the, the lead poisoning. 896 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,640 So there you have a typical example. 897 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,640 There's all these these kids from this elementary, you know, 898 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:02,520 it's actually kindergarten private 200 plus kids show up 899 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,720 with some sort of POI symptoms of poisoning. 900 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,640 Don't know what it is. Go to the local hospital. 901 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,440 Local hospital says that they don't know what it is, what's 902 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,480 going on. But actually they we found out, 903 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,040 right? They probably didn't know what 904 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,000 was going on, but they didn't want to say. 905 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,840 And so some parents said, well, we don't believe you. 906 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,240 And so they took their kids to other hospitals in other big 907 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:27,320 cities, Tianjin, I think. And Xian, this is in western 908 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:31,600 China, in Tianjin, which is way out in the Goonies mid sized 909 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,920 city. And then the the hospitals in 910 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,960 the big cities said, yeah, they have lead poisoning, right? 911 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,360 And so basically the government tried to cover it up. 912 00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,640 And then they came up with this ludicrous story that the school 913 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,960 was mixing in lead paint with this, with the food to make it 914 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,280 more shiny or colorful, which is, it's so ludicrous. 915 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,440 I can't, I don't know who thought of that story, but who 916 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,800 could believe that? I mean, it's not water soluble. 917 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,840 I mean, it's, it's just, it's a, it's a preposterous story. 918 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,840 The truth seems to be that what's really going on is they 919 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,400 have a lead zinc, a lead zinc factory in the town and it's on 920 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,640 the, on the, the balance of the river. 921 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,960 And that they've been poisoning the, they've been contaminating 922 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,480 the water tail with lead. And what the school did was 923 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,080 because it was a privately owned school. 924 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,520 And so the school, because they ran it for profit, they sank 925 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,560 their own well instead of paying the high water rates. 926 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,640 And so they took water from their own well. 927 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,160 And that's how people, that's, that's how the kids all got 928 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,120 poisoned. But of course they couldn't 929 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,160 reveal, the government couldn't allow that to come out because 930 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,120 that would reveal the whole water table was contaminated. 931 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,880 And why is the water they were contaminated? 932 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,400 Because they didn't obey the environmental regulations. 933 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,320 That's that prohibited this plant from being erected next to 934 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,080 the river. So they tried to cover the whole 935 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,720 thing up and try to suppress the discussion so completely, but it 936 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:53,360 all failed and it all came out and now everybody in the country 937 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,440 knows, right? And so now they look really 938 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:56,680 stupid. Not only they come with this 939 00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,240 really stupid story that is so preposterous to like, like how 940 00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:02,000 could anybody, how could they be so stupid? 941 00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,240 Anybody would actually believe that with the paint, right? 942 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,360 And then they're, they're trying to cover up they're, they 943 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,200 actually, they actually coerced the hospital into covering up 944 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,720 the truth and not telling the parents what was going on, which 945 00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:18,920 is itself a crime, right. And so probably the end result, 946 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,720 what typically happen in case like this, they'll probably can 947 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:24,400 the entire leadership of the all of the city and they'll all lose 948 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,280 their, their, their career and the party because of this. 949 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,840 So the government makes themselves look stupid, but 950 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,480 there is a correction mechanism and there's like a seated 951 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,320 feedback method in the works. So it's not like there's like, 952 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,520 so yes, the government does some stupid things, but there is a 953 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,320 kind of a feedback this is no works and it kind of comes out 954 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,960 and works just on the end. But of course, the only reason 955 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,440 this feedback mechanism works is because their whole idea, their 956 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,880 whole totalitarian concept of the government can only doesn't 957 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,160 work, right? If it did, then there would be 958 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,800 no Fagin feedback mechanism. But because it doesn't work, 959 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,000 there is and it does work, right. 960 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,080 So it's a good example of, of how, yes, they have 961 00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,120 authoritarian tendencies and maybe that's an idealized world. 962 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,600 They can control everything, but they don't. 963 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,960 And, and because there is no social credit system, people are 964 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,560 not worried about writing things the government doesn't like and 965 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,680 say, they say, oh, the government is, is tolerating, 966 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:21,920 for example, this lead poisoning. 967 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:23,920 Well, there is no social credit system. 968 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,160 So they don't, they don't, people don't worry about that 969 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,480 sort of thing. They just write what they write, 970 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,040 whatever they think. Maybe if they write on their, if 971 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,600 they write, if they write on their, their, you know, their, 972 00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,880 their blog, whatever. The government down with the 973 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,400 government. Government should be kicked out 974 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:38,480 of office. Well, that wouldn't go over 975 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,720 well, right? But if they just complain about 976 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,200 the lead poisoning, nobody says no happened. 977 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,080 To that, the idea of a social credit system is obviously quite 978 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,840 nuanced. I think every country has it to 979 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,040 some degree. Even here, if I'm applying for a 980 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:53,600 car loan or a home loan, they do a credit check on you there that 981 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,080 that is a type of social credit system. 982 00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,280 To do some ways it's been sold in the West, right. 983 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,040 In the West, it's been sold is this concept of, you know, 984 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,960 whether you're whether you're politically correct, right. 985 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,960 And that's, I mean, that does exist to sort of in every 986 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,440 country because there are ways of, of discovering whether 987 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,880 you're politically correct and that can influence your career 988 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,080 and so on. But it's much more indirect. 989 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,520 Like so if you apply for a job typically in the West as well, 990 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,680 as far as far as I understand, they'll look up your social 991 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,040 media posts. And now even the US government's 992 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,400 come out and said anybody that says anything bad about Israel 993 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,480 or something is you will not get admitted to the United States, 994 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,640 right. That's you got to watch out. 995 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,240 But I, I'd say compared to what goes on in the West, China is 996 00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:39,840 probably much less systematic in doing that. 997 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,840 Maybe because you're kind of so many people, they just don't, 998 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,840 they don't have the resources to try and do that on the scale 999 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,720 that that seems to be going on in the UK. 1000 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:53,080 Certainly I say seems because I one thing I don't know, I'm not 1001 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,640 in the UK, I'd say I, I don't want to judge that, but it 1002 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:59,880 certainly seems like that level of supervision or surveillance 1003 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,560 is going on there. Social media is much more 1004 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,960 intense than in China. Am I wrong? 1005 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:11,200 No, I don't think you're wrong, but if you watch some of these 1006 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,240 fear porn documentaries that have come out over the last few 1007 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:17,280 years, the social credit score that shows you these aerial 1008 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,120 shots of each Chinese citizen with the squares. 1009 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,360 You know, yeah, Little, little. Boxes. 1010 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,760 Yeah, well, I think I tell you, it's this, it's this Twitter 1011 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,040 channel, this this X channel called song being on the mixes, 1012 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:35,120 the videos, yeah. I mean, basically you're not 1013 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,160 going to get penalized because you buy meat. 1014 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,520 No, no. And it's really not for 1015 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,640 jaywalking. People jaywalk all the time and 1016 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,520 nobody, nobody notices. And certainly there's no record 1017 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,960 of it. Every single time, Scott, I do a 1018 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,760 conversation like this, I always get somebody saying yes, but 1019 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,800 look at this YouTube channel. There's some guy called. 1020 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:05,080 Or serpent, Serpent, which is Serpent South Africa, Zod 1021 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,040 Africa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1022 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,480 He lived there for for 12 or 15 years and. 1023 00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,600 Those two, those two guys, they do well, I mean, I, I, I guess 1024 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,760 they're either being paid or maybe it's just through the 1025 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,680 YouTube because YouTube promotes them so, so heavily. 1026 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:27,160 I'm sure they get a lot of monetization from YouTube, but 1027 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,160 yeah, they seem to have made a career out of that. 1028 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:31,280 What can I say? But. 1029 00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,760 I mean, are they're telling the truth or they are they're 1030 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,360 propagandizing the truth or what? 1031 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,720 I don't watch much of the production, I have to say. 1032 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:43,600 I have to confess, In the old days, a couple of years ago, I 1033 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,440 didn't watch a few. But just for research purposes, 1034 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,280 yeah, I'd say it's pretty much all fantasy. 1035 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:52,720 I mean, they don't live in China anymore because they were, I 1036 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:54,640 think they would have difficulties if they were to try 1037 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,040 to come back. I don't think they would be 1038 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,400 letting our guy get a visa. But they've been gone now for 1039 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:00,800 over 10 years. So. 1040 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,920 But these people are really lowlife. 1041 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,880 I mean, one of their videos they said, yeah, Chinese don't love 1042 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:09,760 their children. I mean, stuff like that. 1043 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,800 And this is, this is like from a guy that's married to a Chinese 1044 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:17,840 woman, right? I mean, I don't know, Lowlife is 1045 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,320 the only word that comes to my mind from people like that. 1046 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:25,000 And the point is, is that people should go, shouldn't they, and 1047 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,960 go see for themselves. Yeah, definitely. 1048 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,680 I mean, particularly from the West, it's typically a shock for 1049 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,040 most people because they've never been in such a futuristic 1050 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,840 place really. And certainly and people, some 1051 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,040 people say, oh, it's just a big city. 1052 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,600 No, it's not. China looks like this all over 1053 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,320 the whole country. It's a beautifully paved roads 1054 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,440 and high speed trains and shiny metros all over the country. 1055 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,520 Sometimes you could have to wonder if the government's 1056 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,560 investment is really, it's not overdoing in a bit, but in terms 1057 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,680 of the basic infrastructure, it's very good throughout the 1058 00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,800 country. And, you know, because China is 1059 00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,400 at the cutting edge of so many industries. 1060 00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,720 Well, like the one we talked about, the electric car 1061 00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,520 industry. Yeah. 1062 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,840 I mean, it's just you have a level of technology in society 1063 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,960 that is unmatched anywhere else in the world and certainly in 1064 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,800 society in China really works, right. 1065 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,160 And it's particularly in a lot of Western countries which where 1066 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,160 things don't work and even, let's say places like South 1067 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:20,880 Africa where many things don't work. 1068 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:27,040 Yeah, it's, I think it is a shock to see that how things, 1069 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,600 how well things work in China. And it is, it is a superficial 1070 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,800 impression to a certain extent because there are things that 1071 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,520 don't work in China. You don't see those immediately, 1072 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:36,600 right? So don't get me wrong. 1073 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,680 But it is good to have that, that, that comparison. 1074 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:45,080 And, you know, and it's not all, it's not all on China's side. 1075 00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,760 You know, we don't have, for example, the right to carry arms 1076 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:48,160 here. We don't. 1077 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,440 And you can't go hunting here, which you guys can do there. 1078 00:56:50,720 --> 00:56:53,840 So it's you have to sort of take the, you know, take the good, 1079 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,520 good side of it. But yeah, people should 1080 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,600 definitely come and see for themselves. 1081 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:03,040 And it's seeing is believing, as the saying goes, right? 1082 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,440 You can't really, you can't get it the same way from a distance. 1083 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:12,280 And people it's I had a friend of mine that was thinking about 1084 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,760 coming here, but she says she was so afraid because here 1085 00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,080 people, people so rarely use cash anymore. 1086 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,520 And she didn't like concept of using her phone to pay for 1087 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,200 things. Well, I mean, if that's if 1088 00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,240 that's a really if that's a principle you want to, you know, 1089 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,560 you want to fall on you and that's then then that you want 1090 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,040 to make that allow it to decide where you go on in, in the 1091 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,440 world. And, you know, so be it. 1092 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:37,160 But yeah, it's part of the deal. Well, actually just on that, a 1093 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,440 lot of people also misunderstand how these things work in 1094 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,680 different countries. In South Africa, it's not a good 1095 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,160 idea to carry cash. It's it's, it's a dangerous 1096 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,160 country. Carrying cash is a terrible 1097 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,920 idea. Yeah. 1098 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,880 Well, here you don't have that Problem, of course, is we have 1099 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,360 almost no crime or we have, no, there's no public theft of 1100 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,480 anything really. So you don't have that issue at 1101 00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:02,400 all. It's just people. 1102 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,720 People pay things with their phone for reasons of 1103 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,240 convenience, but it's been in China. 1104 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,280 There's some things that pay with cash and those might be 1105 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,000 large transactions, but small transactions all, all by phone, 1106 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:16,960 but not because not for fuzz of fear. 1107 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,280 It's just as easy in it. I mean, I've been for a long 1108 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:20,880 time. I would still carry some cash as 1109 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:22,600 well if I needed. You know, man, you never know 1110 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,200 when you minded. But I have to admit, I even two 1111 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,400 or three years ago, I, I kind of gave up on that. 1112 00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,320 And it's just all you need is a phone and it's really it's, it's 1113 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,320 phone base. It's not by facial recognition. 1114 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,240 There are a few places where you can pay by face if you signed up 1115 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,480 for that feature with one of the server payment providers, but 1116 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,080 it's pretty rare. A couple of years ago people I 1117 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,160 think did it for for for for kicks, a couple of a couple of 1118 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,960 stores, but it seems to be completely disappeared now. 1119 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:53,080 I don't. I don't see it at all anymore. 1120 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,840 I did experience facial recognition technology when I 1121 00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,920 was in Hong Kong though. Doing what? 1122 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:02,720 Yeah, well, for example at the airport. 1123 00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,400 Oh yeah, well, that's all over the West too. 1124 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,840 In the US now, if you leave whenever you get on a plane, 1125 00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,040 they all do facial recognition now to get on a plane. 1126 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,200 I don't know where they have a copy of my friend's face from. 1127 00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,200 I'd like to know, but they do here in China. 1128 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,280 We don't have facial recognition for the for, for at the airport 1129 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,320 that I know of. But yeah, I mean, there, there 1130 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,520 are systems in, in China is a lot of cameras. 1131 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,920 And that's a long story as to why that that happened, the 1132 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,600 whole terrorism thing. But but yeah, in China, if you 1133 00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,400 if you're on The Wanted list, eventually they will catch you 1134 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,520 through via facial recognition. It's true. 1135 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,760 And that's also probably one of the reasons why crime crime is 1136 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,800 still low. Yeah, we can't come in for 1137 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,240 landing because you mentioned cameras and somebody's going to 1138 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,560 ask about that so quickly. Tell me a bit more about that. 1139 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,760 Why are there so many cameras? Because there was a state of 1140 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,640 terrorism back in what was it 2008 to 2014 roughly, and the 1141 00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,040 usual suspects. I think we can be pretty sure 1142 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,600 we're behind that. I'm talking about people outside 1143 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,760 of China. That were supplying that 1144 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,160 organizing that they were mostly terrorists from Xinjiang from 1145 01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:14,200 the from the western part of China and they blew up train 1146 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:18,200 stations and marketplaces and stuff and and the Chinese 1147 01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,320 government, the war we got to do something to stop this. 1148 01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,720 And so that's that was really what what what pushed to it go 1149 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,080 take it off. And so they put up facial 1150 01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,160 recognitions all, all around the country to stop the terrorism. 1151 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,600 And that was, and well, they did, they succeeded. 1152 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:33,360 I'm not sure whether it was it worth or not. 1153 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,440 I don't know. But I'd say if you asked an 1154 01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,760 average Chinese, do they mind the Super, the, the 1155 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,160 surveillance? I'd say most people don't 1156 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,600 because you can see the obvious advantages because it's so the, 1157 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,760 it's so difficult to get away with the crime. 1158 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,200 This is committed in public because of the, of the 1159 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,560 surveillance. Even even smaller things. 1160 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:59,160 For example, I, I had a couple of twice last year, I had run 1161 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:06,600 insurance with scooter drivers and then the call the police and 1162 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,880 the police said, OK, well, we'll get the video right from 1163 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,840 whatever it is, you know, nearby to saw, saw what happened then. 1164 01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,760 And then they can use the video to just to make an assessment, 1165 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,520 which is handy, right? So they won one case and I think 1166 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:20,560 technically it was maybe my fault. 1167 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,040 But then the policeman said, but the guy was obviously speeding, 1168 01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,120 he was driving too fast. So you can't say it was all your 1169 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:27,880 fault. So at the end of the day, it was 1170 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,520 like, you know, OK, never mind. So that's handy, right? 1171 01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,960 So I think most people are not, don't see that as something 1172 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,520 negative. But that's also because the 1173 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,440 government doesn't use it to as far as people's at least people 1174 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,240 don't have the impression government is easy to track 1175 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,320 them. And I know for a fact the 1176 01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,600 government for the most part has no idea where people are. 1177 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,760 But that's also something that's very hard for people in the West 1178 01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,440 to imagine that there are hundreds of millions of Chinese 1179 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,680 living in cities where they're not registered and the 1180 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,800 government has no idea where they live, where they live and 1181 01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,920 they don't actually care. They don't, they don't even try 1182 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,000 and track these people. And we know that for a fact 1183 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,440 because there's lots of evidence for this. 1184 01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,920 The government doesn't know. But if the if you do get on the 1185 01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,880 on The Wanted list, they try and tracking it, then they use it. 1186 01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:09,960 So that's, that's the difference. 1187 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,200 But people don't perceive the government's tracking them 1188 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,680 because they know from multiple examples in their lives, the 1189 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,200 government has no idea where they are. 1190 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,880 So they don't have that, that let's say that paranoia that 1191 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000 people associate in the West or the government's tracking me and 1192 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:28,480 they know, they know that as far as people's experience is that 1193 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,720 they what they do use the cameras for is see the track 1194 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,680 criminals or to figure out what happened in case of an accident. 1195 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,200 That's how most people interact with the cameras. 1196 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,440 OK, looking at the time, how can I follow your work? 1197 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,680 Well, yeah, I will share a couple of this. 1198 01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:48,920 As I mentioned earlier, we, you know, we do have a lot of 1199 01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,920 production in Chinese as well, but we also do some things for 1200 01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:59,000 the Western, Western market. And one of the projects that 1201 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,240 we've been working on for a while now is a project called 1202 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,240 Quantum Intel website is Quantum Intel dot me. 1203 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,480 And that's actually most for the Western market itself. 1204 01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,120 Independent media provide provide a platform for 1205 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,080 independent media. So you can find independent 1206 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,120 media, what independent media is talking about in all these 1207 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,160 different areas around all around the world. 1208 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,320 So like for example, you can check out UK columns. 1209 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,280 We have a library in that. The UK column is in there as 1210 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,520 well. I think I looked up the UK 1211 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:31,760 column today and I think U column is over 1000 entries 1212 01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,800 actually. So you can actually go to the UK 1213 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:38,920 column and page in our on our website. 1214 01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,640 And I think the UK column is 933-O. 1215 01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,080 That's the feed number. And then you can actually do a 1216 01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:47,480 search. For example, you can see, let's 1217 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,240 say you look up for example censorship, you want to know 1218 01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:54,440 what what UK column is, has had say about censorship in the last 1219 01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,680 couple of years. And I looked it up today and UK 1220 01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,560 column has 12 different episodes about censorship in the last 1221 01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,240 three years and you can find out what they are. 1222 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,480 So it's kind of a handy thing. But you could also look up and 1223 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:10,160 see what people are talking about in other countries, in 1224 01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,040 other language zones. And so it's also really 1225 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,960 interesting to look up what other countries are not talking 1226 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,840 about. So, for example, a couple of 1227 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:23,560 years ago, we, some people, some listeners may recall there was a 1228 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,080 really hot podcast put out by Tiger Carlson they did with 1229 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,360 Darryl Cooper. And it was sort of the talk of 1230 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,120 the country in the USI don't know about the UK, but it was 1231 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,680 some sensitive topics. And, and there's a lot of, there 1232 01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,640 are a lot of articles about him. But if you looked at Darryl in 1233 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,080 the German press or the German independent media or in the 1234 01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,200 French media, you would discover nothing. 1235 01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,240 He was completely blocked out. So it's actually quite 1236 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,480 interesting to see what's not being discussed. 1237 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:52,720 But because you can do that content search through the 1238 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,440 platform, you can tell you can find that out. 1239 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,000 And we also have a translation function. 1240 01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,720 So you're not too comfortable reading German, then it will it 1241 01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,600 will translate it for you. So that's also kind of candid. 1242 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,960 So that's one thing you can you can check out. 1243 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,400 And of course, you can also check out our Austrian China sub 1244 01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,160 stack, which is Austrian China, Austrian with an N that's from 1245 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:15,280 the country Austria, Austrian, Austrian china.substock.com. 1246 01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,040 What's the quantum URL again? Quantum Intel. 1247 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,800 Dot ME. So it's all quantum like, like 1248 01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:27,200 quantum physics and Intel, like intelligence. dot ME. 1249 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,520 And if you, if you enter 933-O there you'll see at the top on 1250 01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,840 on search for that and you'll find that's the, that's the UK 1251 01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,920 column, the main UK column fee. Although you you also search for 1252 01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,680 UK column as well, but that's just the abbreviation. 1253 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,440 Austrian Scott, it is always a pleasure chatting to you. 1254 01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:45,680 Thank you for joining me in the trenches. 1255 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:47,000 Thank you, Durham.