My background, my pre 2020 background, I should say, is in
in education. I live in the Chicago area.
I have None. a PhD in educational psychology from the
University of Virginia and I spent a 20 year career working
in schools, first as a teacher, middle school teacher, but then
really as a teacher of teachers. I, I worked with schools in a
lot of different ways and a lot of different kinds of
consulting, a lot of it teaching teachers how to teach better is,
is the simple, simple way to put it.
But I did some programme evaluation and analysis and
other other kinds of work as well.
Taught some online classes simultaneously for UVA, did a
lot of conferences and things like that.
Wrote several books, book chapters, articles.
Yeah. So that was all, all pre pre
2020 and 2020 changed a lot of that for for me.
But I had a good run. I had a really good 20 year
career in education. What changed?
Well, in case you didn't know, was.
There was there something? Was there something that
happened? What March 2020 the human rights
heist of March 2020, I, I call it war was declared by numerous
countries and The Who against the populace of of the world.
And we were told that there was a a silently spreading threat
that was coming from to a country near you and that we
needed to shut down South. At least in my country, the
order to do that came around. It depends when you market from
but the national emergency was declared on March 13th and then
on March 16th, President Trump said 15 days to slow the spread.
Right. Like we're running a drill.
OK, everybody, 15 days to slow the spread and things shut down.
Schools closed, churches closed. That was crazy.
I've never seen any. I've never seen anything like
that insofar as churches and houses of worship, obedience.
Yeah. And life is lifeless.
We knew it just completely disrupted.
And people, people said OK, but I will.
I will say that people, a lot of people thought it was only going
to be two weeks. In retrospect, I, I realise, and
you probably do too, that it was never going to be two weeks,
never ever going to be two weeks.
That was not the the plan. And yeah, a lot, a lot of things
change for me and, and millions, if not billions of people around
the world so. Somebody asked me the other day
if I would like to go back to the pre 2020 era and after
thinking about it, I actually wouldn't.
Why not? I feel more enlightened now,
don't you? Yes, yes, but I lost a lot and
you probably did did too. I don't know your entire back
story, but I, I lost a lot and, and I think that's important
because some people lost very little.
Some people are way better off now than they were in 2019
because of 2020. Now, let me say I'm not in a
disadvantaged position. I'm not so many people, their
lives were completely disrupted and you know, economically,
professionally, you know, brought them to, to the, to the
bottom. We have kind of a buffer in, in
our, in our situation, but, but it was very hard and very, very
hard for, for my, my kids. And I don't know, I don't know
if I would. That's, that's a tough question
for me when I go back to 2919. It's very hard to to say.
Yeah. I mean, I think it, you know, if
I think about my own family now and vaccines, you know, my child
and, and my view on vaccines and my view on pandemics and all
that, I think, you know, I feel like I'm in a much better
intellectual space. Sure, yes, I mean, I know things
now that I didn't know then that I'm glad that I know.
I just wish it wouldn't have taken that for me to know that.
I think that's that's more more what it is and we don't have to
talk about this. But even things like, you know,
the the moon, right? Did we land on on the moon
dinner? You know, when you're out with
out with people be like, so why haven't we gone back to the
moon? That right there, I think that
right there epitomises the COVID era.
So you start off by talking about whether or not there was a
pandemic, and you end up talking talking about the moon landing
you. Know I hold the other way
around. See that see that's the
strategy. The strategy is that if you
bring up like, why haven't we gone back to the moon and
someone will be like back. Do you think we went or someone
else will be like, I don't know about that, Yeah, but what about
JFK? Or what about yes?
Right. And so it is, it's a back door
way of getting to the pandemic because opening a conversation
with so I don't think there was a pandemic.
What do you think? We're not there yet.
Most circles we're not there
yet. So take me back now to 2020.
You've written extensively about New York.
Tell me what you observed and how you got into looking into
it. Sure.
Well, I didn't really start looking into the mass casualty
event of spring 2020 in New York till maybe 2021 or so.
There was such a shock and awe campaign in 2020, you know, and
I have two kids. My husband was deemed an
essential worker. He's in restaurants.
So he's still still going going to work.
So I was just trying to figure out what was going on in
Chicago. We have every death that is
processed by the medical examiner is in a public
database. So I was poring over that like
you would not believe. I was never afraid of the virus,
but I was trying to figure out like who is allegedly dying,
dying of this thing. But in 2021 or so when I was
looking with some other people, I was in a group with at, at New
York and looking at just the scale of the event, 27,000 extra
people allegedly died in 11 weeks, most of it in in six
weeks, 10 times the number of people that died in the World
Trade Centre disaster in excess death.
It's, it's unbelievable. It has to be the biggest non war
casualty event in, in U.S. history.
And so you can see in my in my tweets and when I started sub
stacking more about it in July 2020 at 2022, excuse me, I was
kicked off of Twitter temporarily for about 5, 7 1/2
months. You can see me just going
through in an in an inquiring mind wants to know fashion like
what happened here everyone and trying to probe and dig into
data and request data from different agencies and and
entities. And I have to tell you that I
when I started out, I didn't really think, oh, this, this
might be fabricated or, you know, in part fabricated or a
manipulated event. But couple years later it was
just, it was impossible to, to ignore and, and to, to deny.
So and, and now I, I think that data sets around the world are
probably manipulated, almost certainly New York City and then
Bergamo, Italy. That's another just incredible
event that's unprecedented that is, is not corroborated by on
the ground evidence. And I'm not buying it.
I just don't buy it. Would you mind unpacking that a
bit more the New York data? What makes it so incredible,
what makes it so incredible is that actually like everywhere in
the world, you have nothing going on in any time series data
of any kind. So not just death, the number of
deaths that are happening each day, but 911 calls, ambulance
dispatches, anything having to do with emergency department
visits, everything is normal. Then all of a sudden President
Trump says 15 days to slow the spread.
And you see the data really near synchronously.
Every kind of data should shoot up.
The deaths go from I think about 125 to 130 a day to day after
day after day of 1000 plus deaths.
It it's incredible. All places or settings of death
rise pretty near simultaneously. All ancestry groups rise pretty
near simultaneously. All age groups rise pretty near
simultaneously. And it's just not what you would
expect or what we were led to expect would happen with a
spreading virus. And this analogy isn't mine.
It's my colleague Jonathan Englers that he came up with
from looking at similar data in in northern Italy, in Lombardi.
And you would expect a spreading disease to build sort of like a
forest fire. If somebody left a barbecue on
or somebody lit a lit a match, you know, on one one tree, you
would expect to see signs or smoke signals if you will, in
the data building up. Instead what we see is something
like a bomb, actually not just one bomb, but repeated bombs
going off over and over again. And in New York too, we have
something that we don't really see anywhere else.
And we have a massive increase in deaths among younger groups,
ages, you know, beneath age 60 or so.
In the age groups of 25 to 54 years old, deaths rose almost
200% base to peak. I mean, even for people who
believe in COVID or believe that there was a new disease on the
scene, that's pretty incredible. And we have no real
corroboration from smartphones, right?
I mean, there's a lot of people in New York with smartphones,
right? We don't have video of bodies
being managed. We don't have a memorial to this
event. We don't have documentaries
about it. The, the number of bodies that
are purported to have been handled in hospitals is
incredible, but we don't hear testimonies to that effect
shortly after the event or even many years later.
So it's, it's just not adding up.
And I, I like to contrast it with 911.
I don't know a lot about 911. We don't have to get, get into
that. That's somebody else's ratable.
But with 911, the buildings came down.
Nobody denies that the buildings came down and reportedly 2800
people, 2800 people died in that event.
So the number of deaths makes sense with the scale of the the
cataclysm, right? But then we have 10 times the
number of people who died in spring 2020, most of it in six
weeks, but we don't really have any evidence of it.
So we have a lot of dogs that didn't bark.
That's a simple way of putting it.
When you say there isn't any evidence of it, are are those
numbers corroborated with actual names of people?
Only the people who are buried on Hart Island.
New York City is pretty unusual in the United States and that it
has for its public burial. So people who don't have loved
ones or can't afford a a a private burial.
All New York City residents are entitled to a burial on Hart
Hart Island. And it's unique because it's
because it's an island, right? And it's pretty hard to to
access. So those records, the the names
and some basic information of people, the people who are
buried on Hart Island are available.
That's about 1900 people if if memory serves.
And we have a total casualty event of the whole period of
38,000 people, 27,000 is is excess.
So there's just not enough in order to substantiate it.
And New York State, New York City, they don't allow death
records to be accessed via public record request.
Some states do, but New York doesn't.
So if you wanted to pull off a staged event, and I believe this
event was staged, but if you wanted to pull off a staged
event to kick off your pandemic New York City for a lot of
reasons, but it including reasons having to do with a lack
of access to records, what would be the place to do it for sure.
OK, so just as devil's advocate, are there any other loopholes in
that? I mean, so for example, could
they be buried elsewhere? Could they be cremated?
What about the fact that maybe they didn't die?
Were they just severely I'll? Sure.
Well, what what I question is the all 'cause let me, yeah, I
have it on a little piece of paper.
I don't know if that's going to show up.
We have this, this is January 1st, 2019, right?
And so we have nothing going on, nothing going on, nothing going
on. Massive rise of about 7 to 800%
and then a massive drop. And then nothing is going on for
the rest of the year. So this is all deaths, all, all
causes. It's, it's, it's an incredible
event. So no, there is no way to get
all of the, the names. All we have are numbers in, in
states which, you know, I have a problem with that because the
government should not be allowed to privatise death records.
They have every incentive to lie about death, don't they?
The, the, the number, the name, the nature, the the speed.
So I've written a lot about how this could have occurred data
engineering wise, What we could be looking at here.
We could be looking at debt, some deaths that occurred
beforehand and afterwards and that were pushed up into the
curve. We could be also looking at some
fabricated that's like just hit, hit some extra extra digits.
But this is not an observed. I'm talking to the scientists
here. This is not an observed event.
Just because we have numbers in spreadsheets doesn't mean that
those are observations or necessarily representations of
death records. We would need to minimally have
the death records released. But could you?
Could you? I mean, this is in New York
City. You know exactly which hospitals
are where. You could also ask them about
it. What are I mean?
What are their responses? Sure.
You mean going to the hospitals or do you mean, Yeah, I, I could
go to the the hospitals. It's it's interesting.
There were on the ground reporters and journalists at the
time, sort of of the independent ilk who went around with cameras
and showed that there was nothing going on.
Hospitals were not, not busy. I mean, the hospitals, just to
give you a sense of scale, they, they allege that more than
around 20,000 people died in the time period in hospital
inpatient. That's the same number of beds
that hospitals have. So, so think about that.
They're, they're claiming to have lost the equivalent of
every bed in, in that, in that time period.
So yeah, you, you could go and go and ask.
I have a lot of data from the public hospital system.
See a lot of these, these hospitals in New York City are,
are private. So you can't get the get the
data or certain data from them. But the public hospitals, one
sort of red flag with them has been that they don't want to
give me data really in 2019 or sooner.
They don't want to give me a, the baseline data.
They keep saying that's locked in a black box and they can't
access it. And they, they keep giving all
of these excuses. So in my inquiry now that's been
over a couple of years, a huge red flag has been that they just
don't, they don't want to release any, anything.
I, I think because they, they know what I'm looking for.
This is the the plain fact so. What do you think happened then?
They just inflated all the numbers.
I think that's that's part of it.
I think that they in the future, if something comes out, I think
they will blame some kind of computer error.
New York City hospitals were changing computer systems at
that time, which a record keeping systems, which I think
was an intentional, but I think they'll fall back and say well,
we were changing systems. So, so blah, blah, blah.
I think maybe it was the data was military controlled not just
in New York but in in other places as well.
You might remember the dashboards like the Johns
Hopkins University dashboard, but what people don't realise, I
was actually explaining this to my daughter the other day.
People don't realise that you cannot find out how many people
died in Cape Town yesterday. I cannot find out how many
people died in Chicago yesterday.
There is no such thing as real time death reporting.
It doesn't matter what the cause is, it there's always delays for
a lot of different reasons. So I think, and colleagues of
mine have said this, this too, I think part of what we saw in
real time is we actually saw models that were being put out
and reality could not keep up with the models.
And so we might be looking at people who died at some point,
but not in that moment, not in those weeks, and certainly not
because a spreading novel coronavirus dropped on a bomb
like a bomb on New York and some other selected places.
So, so it's, it's fraud, I think no matter what, because what
happened or what the government purports to have happened did
not happen for the reasons that they say.
But what makes my work, I think different is that I'm saying I
don't think the event happened as presented at all, right?
Which doesn't mean that there wasn't excess.
I do believe there was excess. But in New York, I think the
toll is off in some way, shape or form by about four to 10,000
deaths, which, you know, that's a massive, that's a massive act
of, of, of fraud. And if it's not, then they
should be able to prove it, right?
The just the basic like, did this happen?
Did the number of people that you're claiming to have died on
each day actually die on those days?
Regardless of cause in the places that you claim?
This is very This is very basic and should just be released
automatically. You said there was excess.
What caused that? Sure.
Well, any, any excess that is genuine I believe and have tried
to make the case is just straight in hospitals and care
homes. It's just straight up demicide
where and I'm not, I'm not saying individuals committed
murder, but there were policies and protocols that were put into
place. Involving ventilators and the
use of sedatives, people being neglected, people receiving too
much oxygen. There's like a laundry list of
things that are pretty well documented as occurring at at
that time. So in hospitals and care homes
it would be, I actually, I mean, people can say I actrogenic if
they want to. It's the treatment that that
caused it. What's really interesting about
New York too, is that they have an incredible home death event,
massive rise in deaths at home, most of it blamed on cardiac
arrest, which is is is pretty, pretty crazy because we see
well, not I'm going to say no to that.
I'm going to say that no, that cardiac arrest can of the of the
nature and shape of the curve that it is in New York City is
not stress induced. And if it is that that needs to
be investigated by by researchers.
There were protocols put into place at the time with EMS
services where EMS services were pretty much instructed to
withhold normal life saving measures for people in cardiac
arrest. So I think that's in the mix and
I think there might be some things in the mix involving
drugs and fentanyl, but I'm not 100% on that.
But that's something else that could trigger cardiac arrest of
the nature and shape that we see in in New York City, but not
none of it's a virus. That's that's for sure.
OK. So that that's the segue to my
next question. Was there a pandemic?
No. And unlike some other people who
say that there was or will concede that there was no, no
pandemic, I don't think there was a pandemic by any
definition, including the bogus one that The Who came up with in
2009. Because every current definition
of a pandemic involves spread or the spread of something and
usually the spread of something novel over an area of, of people
or, or over over the globe. And there's just no evidence of
spread or of something transmitting from person to to
person. And with things like the lab
leak theory or oh, it came from China, we just had this
incredible sequence of events in terms of speed or what is
purported with, with speed that we had something leave a lab or,
or labs in Wuhan, transmit from person to person and then create
mass casualty events in geopolitically strategic
locations. I mean, you, you might remember
Iran, do you remember Iran said that they lost or it was
reported that Iran lost 12 regime officials to the
coronavirus. And then we have it in Italy and
then we had it in Madrid, and then we had it in New York and
New Orleans and all these strategic places in the, in the
meantime, the virus is allegedly coming from the West on to the
United States. And we don't see a mass casualty
event of huge proportions in Los Angeles or Seattle, where the
first case was reported. It's, it's, it's incredible.
So we, we just don't have the, the evidence for what the
government or what the official story alleges actually occurred.
I think we just have lies and lies about lies.
Unfortunately, so there was no pandemic.
Was there a novel virus though? I I don't see, I don't see
evidence of one. Of course, I've come to the
place where I'm like, what, what is a, what is a virus?
I mean, these are really just basic questions.
I am not a scientist, but you know, what is a virus?
I've had conversations with virologists, like how do you
know that a virus gets passed from one person to another?
Like my husband and I sleep together and have for 27 years,
but we've never been sick at the same time.
So if I don't get sick from him or if I don't catch a virus from
him, how can I catch it from the guy at the grocery store?
And how do we know that these things transmit?
And there there's just not a lot of evidence for it.
What we have is testing. We have the launch of testing
that purports to detect these viral things, and then it
creates an illusion of some something spreading.
But without the tests, you wouldn't have a sense that
anything was going on, right? And I don't know about in Cape
Town, but in Chicago, where the second case in the United States
was announced, I didn't know anybody in those first six
months of 2020 who got sick or who was, who was getting getting
sick. So again, our our experiences
contradict what we were seeing on the screen.
And it's amazing how the government, I'll just use that
that term, they were able to create the appearance of
something that really contradicted our own experiences
and make people think that they were experiencing something that
they weren't experiencing at all.
And unless your experiences were different in 2020, we, we didn't
have anything going on here except for what they said was
going on in nursing homes and and hospitals, right?
But we had a lot of theatrics. There were refrigerator trucks.
There was Andrew Cuomo giving a press conference every day.
But meanwhile, we don't see bodies in the street.
We don't see. I didn't see either.
Right, So you know, in in some ways it is like the moon
landing. I'm sorry to bring that up
again, but you but that is sort of, you know what one of the
instances where let's you go back and like did did you really
see what you think you saw? But this is the thing.
This is the thing, Jessica, if there were, sorry, if there was
a deadly pandemic, it would have been self evident.
It wouldn't have required billboards and mass media
marketing and everybody constantly telling us that there
is a pandemic. And, and I think that feeds into
the psychology of what you're talking about, where people
started believing something. Yeah, they, they did.
They, they believed that the numbers on the screen, they
believed, I think because people have been told and taught, at
least in the United States and certainly healthcare workers,
but others too, we've been taught certain things about
pandemics of the past and we've been taught that a pandemic is
coming. A pandemic is is coming.
We've been told pandemic ghost stories.
I don't know if you know Miriam Abadi, that's her, that's her
metaphor like that. People were told these things
and the pandemic planning industry told themselves those
things. Do they believe it?
Probably some of them do. But so they kept portending a
pandemic. In the meantime, we had the
expansion again, at least in the US of we had the expansion of
flu testing and flu surveillance programme started surveilling
coronaviruses. So what you see leading up to
2020 looks very much like this concerted effort to maybe find
something that can be blamed as a pathogen, right?
Something that can be staged as a a new disease.
And this new disease you might remember, I mean, COVID doesn't
really have any unique properties that are unique to
the the disease. The laundry list of symptoms is
completely unremarkable and not not having symptoms is also a
symptom. Did you know that?
So we. Asymptomatic.
Asymptomatic and asymptomatic transmission, right?
That's one of the ways that they kept people, I don't even want
to say afraid. I do think people were afraid in
the beginning. But really it was more about
compliance and and obedience. We had an emphasis here in the
US. It's, it's, it's unbelievable to
look back at now, but we had these postcards that went out to
millions of homes 15 days to slow the spread.
And if you look at the postcard now, you'll see that it says
even the young and healthy are at risk.
They were almost like war leaflets.
It's like we were simulating a war.
Like you send out these leaflets like the keep calm, carry on,
but stay home, save lives you don't want to be responsible for
killing grandma. All these things that they look
curiously like a chemical attack drill to me in in in retrospect,
the putting up of the field hospitals.
Did you have that in South Africa?
They were all over the world. They, they weren't just this is
something I realised not too long ago, but wow, everybody was
putting up field hospitals. They.
Were empty. And, and they were empty, but I
would say that they were part of a drill.
They were part of a very successful militarised drill
where the world is pretending that we're going through a war
against an invisible enemy, as Donald Trump and Andrew Cuomo
like to like to call it, with these press conference updates
every day. I mean, it's, it's just amazing.
But meanwhile, nothing was really going on in in reality.
And I think that's hard for people to reconcile it.
It really is hard for people to reconcile even in the, the
distance past like the, the Rosenau experiments or the
British common cold unit. All of these really decades of
experiments where challenge trials, if you will, where
researchers try to make people get, get sick from other people.
But some of them by doing really crazy, crazy things are somewhat
unethical things that we wouldn't do today.
And they're not, they're not able to do it.
I think last year there was something like that with SARS Co
V2, right, where they tried to get people sick from it and and
they, they couldn't do it. So it, it really raises a lot of
questions about or has for me about what the things called
viruses are. My daughter gets kind of mad at
me. She's like, I don't you don't
believe in viruses. That's so, so weird.
Tell me, do you believe in viruses?
I'm like, you know, it's not, it's not that I don't believe in
viruses. It's that I'm not sure that the
things called viruses are what we've been told and sold.
And I don't think they have the mechanistic properties or that
they're necessarily causes versus effects.
I'm not sure they're in the air. There are people that say
viruses or the viral is everywhere and they're in the
upper atmosphere, which is very different.
I explained to her from saying people don't get sick.
Are you saying people don't get sick?
No, I'm not saying people don't get sick.
What I'm questioning is whether this thing called a virus is the
cause of that illness. And isn't it convenient for, you
know, our overlords that we can't see it?
There's not, you know, a lot of evidence that these things exist
or that they pass like, and then they can just make us afraid of
it. It just seems like a huge cover
story for other things to me. I'm sorry, but it does.
In a weird kind of correlation, it connects to the data from New
York in that the argument surrounding contagion is very
much based on computer modelling.
Sure, right, right. So through through a computer
modelling and I would say and I'm getting into an area that I
don't know a tonne about, but since the advent of like genomic
sequencing, right, and next next generation sequencing and and
things like that. PCR.
We, yeah, PCR testing, we have, we have these scientists finding
things and it's almost like they think that they can explore the
intricacies of the human body and reconstruct something.
It's, it's like a Tower of Babel.
I, I think, I think they don't know what they're looking at.
They, they underestimate the complexity of our design.
They, they, they think they're seeing things that they're, that
they're not not seeing. And then, yeah, you have PCR
tests that are, that are very sensitive and they're picking up
these fragments of things. But whether these fragments of
things are connected to illness or how they're connected to
illness, I've just realised through basic reading, like they
don't know. And even just basically talking
to virologists, I'm like, Oh yeah, they don't know.
They they do a lot of inferring here, but there's no, there's no
real evidence for it. But if what you're saying is
true, then it means something else happened in 2020.
Right, right. I mean, demicide, Right?
Demicide. But it would mean something a
lot bigger. Surely it would mean a
collaboration of sorts between pharmaceutical companies,
military governments. Yeah, absolutely.
So you know, again, unlike some other people, I believe that the
events of 2020 were planned and and long, long planned.
When people ask me, well, who, you know, who, who planned it?
My, my response to that is, well, at minimum, who W The Who,
Like that's the front facing entity that sounded an alarm in
late 2019. They told us there was a
pandemic. They put out this PCR test.
Like at minimum, they are perpetrators as our government
and public health officials of every major country in the world
that agreed that there was a pandemic and declared, declared
an emergency. So I'm not necessarily looking
for and then you have people like Bill Gates or some private
public interests and people who've been portending pandemic
for ages and and think that they can eradicate disease, right.
A pharma has a lot of interest. I think they were trying to
cover up things that were going on with vaccines and the flu
shot. I think that has been causing
problems for a long time. And ultimately, we have decades
of lies about disease being protected there.
There's a lot at stake here. And I think maybe the COVID
shot, I'm a little different in this regard, too.
I think it was designed to fail. I don't think it was ever set up
to be a success. I think it's taking the blame
for a lot of other things and that the perpetrators would
rather have the focus be on the COVID shot than a lot of other
things that were going on. What do you mean designed to
fail? What does that mean?
I don't think there was. Let me let me moderate that a
little bit. I don't think there was an
expectation that the COVID shot was going to do anything other
than serve as a proof of concept exercise and distract from the
truth about 2020 and some other things that that were going on.
I think that so, so some people say like Mike Eden might might
say that the motive was to simply launch mRNA toward
digital ID. They're trying to depopulate the
world or control the population. I think those things are
probably in in the mix. But I think part of the catalyst
was covering things up in the United States, things going on
with opioids and the failure to, I won't even call it the opioid
epidemic because I think it was the government not doing what it
should to control the fentanyl, fentanyl supply that was that
was coming in. Like I said, decades of lies
about vaccines that were causing harms in the elderly and
possibly in in children. So the COVID shot comes on.
We have this staged pandemic launches this, this shot, they
say it stops transmission. I mean, all, all of these
things. No, nobody needed a shot at all.
No, nobody did because you lied about a spreading, spreading
disease. But I but I think that they
never really had any expectation for it to do much other than to
serve as an excuse to launch mRNA and to distract from other
things that were going on. And you know, they did.
I think they lie about uptake data too.
I don't trust the uptake data, but you know, they operation
COVID was a success. I mean that they proved that
they could use a story numbers on a screen and get us to obey
and that they could get a huge percentage of the population
afraid enough to to take an injection.
I don't know anybody who took the COVID shot who who wasn't
afraid in some way afraid they couldn't travel, afraid that
they wouldn't be able to go to their ladies lunch and hold
their head up, afraid that their kids wouldn't be able to go back
to to school, afraid that they wouldn't kill their grandma.
Do do you see what I'm saying? So I just I just think it was a
a huge success. And even though I support the
work of so many people that are, are uncovering and the harms
like the, the real physical harms that the shot did, did to
to people, I think without also calling out the fake pandemic,
we're sort of still right where they want us to be, but that
they're OK with that. So again, that's a minority
viewpoint, but that's that's how I see it at this point in 2025.
South in 2020, Trump was the president of the US.
Do you think at the time pretty much he was a blockhead who was
just simply played by the military, or was or was he
actually smarter than we think? No, Trump is not stupid.
Donald Trump is not a stupid man.
I think, again, in retrospect, I think Donald Trump had probably
been primed to be president for a long time or was seen as a
candidate for a long time. I'm not sure that in 2016 that
his victory was as surprising necessarily as some people would
think. You know, if you're thinking
from a planned pandemic point of view, Donald Trump is the
perfect hyper reality pandemic TV show president.
I mean, it does not get any better than Donald Trump at the
podium on the White House lawn saying that Elmhurst hospital is
overwhelmed and we need to extend the shutdown another 30
days. I mean, it just it just doesn't
get any better than him. So you know how how much he
knows exactly? I, I, I don't know, but I do
believe he was, he was primed for it for sure.
I think a lot of presidents and world leaders had been probably
over the past few decades, right, primed to this idea that
a pandemic was coming. And they may be the president
when the pandemic hits, right? And I think they're primed like
that for a lot of disasters and a lot of emergencies, right?
But you know, Donald Trump loves a war.
I I think that's, I think that's he's, he's great for a war from
an entertainment stamp stamp. And now he's back and now he's
back. So I don't think that's a
mistake there, by the way. I asked that because the there
was no pandemic as you say. So what the hell was warp speed?
Well, I mean, warp speed, warp speed advanced the development
of the shot, right? I mean, is that so?
What? What are you asking?
Yeah, but he was. He very proudly proclaimed
Wolfspeed and the beautiful vaccine.
Yeah, early on and really, and I think he started talking about
it in January 2020, if I if I'm not mistaken.
So again, regardless of what you think about Donald Trump, I
think people can at least say because I have a lot of family
who loves Donald Trump. So I'm like, listen, can you at
least say that he had been? Conditioned to think that he was
going to save the world, yes. And that this was his war, this
was his his battle. You see in September 2019 that
there's an executive order regarding the influenza vaccine
and the need for new platforms for an influenza vaccine.
So I think at the very least, he, again, he was being told
that there were some things he was going to need to step up
and, and do right. And how convenient that the
virus came from China, right? I mean, it doesn't get any
better than US versus China. China.
Yeah, it's the, the, the China
virus. And so, I mean, you and I were
chatting before this and you said, oh, you know, now, now
it's the lab leak. And Trump's embracing the lab
leak. He always embraced the lab leak.
He, he, he always did that. And the lab leak wet market that
was planted from the very beginning.
You go back and you look at January 2020 and, you know, the
lab leak is painted as a conspiracy.
It doesn't matter. All press is good press.
And it these duelling narratives, these two lies were
launched at once, right? You have these two two lies, but
the real lie is there was nothing spreading.
But as long as you don't question whether anything new
was spreading at all, right, you're you're fine.
You're you're right where you want to be.
So we keep seeing this back and forth that just is is ridiculous
to. Me, yes, but it creates an, it
creates a very interesting dynamic because if he's pushing
the lab leak narrative and there was no lab leak, that means
something else is going on and, and it's and it's now it's not
about a biological event, it's about a geopolitical event.
Sure. Which it, it always was.
I mean, I think and I and I actually think that that's what
pandemics have always been. They're they're, they're
creatures of social science, economics, politics.
They're not biological realities.
Can there be localised epidemics involving certain things,
especially with bacteria or things that are in the water or
things in the food supply? Sure, you know, absolutely.
But this idea of a global spread is just ridiculous.
And if you think about if you go, I was saying this to
somebody the other day, March 2020, what happened in March
2020? They could not have gotten that
from a war, from a real war. I don't, I don't think that kind
of shut down would have happened.
Even if China had launched missiles, I don't think we would
have seen it. So they got better than a war in
in, in 2020. And I think that's what people
need to realise and they need to realise how they created the
illusion of a threat. And so not just that, I think we
need to not just be fighting against the vaccines, vaccine
mandated vaccines of any kind, but of testing.
Testing is a huge part of the illusion.
We saw it in with SARS one, we saw it with the swine flu hoax.
I would call, call that another kind of staged, staged event.
And they can do it again. But even if they don't run the
pandemic exercise again during your lifetime or or mine, the
idea that they can create these appearances of a threat and just
tell you that there's a threat without having to substantiate
it. I think that's sort of the scary
part. I'm not hopeless though.
We can just say, no, I in some ways I think we should just
laugh at them. Like, no, I'm sorry, that is
complete BS. You're talking about bird flu.
No, I'm not, I'm not buying buying that.
We just have to reject it outright.
That's that's the answer. Because our elected and
appointed officials, I mean, like here we've got Jay
Bhattacharya as the NIH director now.
I mean, do not depend on him. Do not depend on our, our RFK.
When you are in the doctor's office and they say, hey, it's
time for your flu shot. No, I mean, be confrontational
about it. That's what it's going to take.
We have to starve the beast at the individual level, but we
kind of all, all have to do it. It's like with the masking,
although not enough people did that, right?
But you, you have to say no to the force covering of the human
face that that's the answer. Yeah, we were talking about
Trump and the beautiful vaccine in 2020, but now any second
term, he's pushing it again, you know, with with Stargate and and
you've got RFK who's all over the place with vaccines. 1
moment he's opposed to them. Next minute he supports measles
vaccines and polio vaccines. What is What is going on?
I, I have no idea. And you know, I, I did vote for
RFK as president because he was on the ballot in, in Illinois
and I said I wasn't going to vote for anyone who was in
elected office in March 2020. So I did vote for him and I do
think he's promising as somebody who would be or could be willing
to just blow, you know, blow it all up, as they say.
However, he's probably made some concessions to not blow it all
up. Otherwise he wouldn't have taken
the, the position. So, you know, you were you or I
are never going to be in that position because we would just
walk into it and be like, you know, no more vaccines, right?
And I wouldn't even care if I was fired or assassinated or
whatever. But, you know, he and he and
somebody like Jay Bhattacharya aren't, aren't going to do it.
So I, I think there's a problem with continuing to look at these
leaders as though they are the answer.
They're, they're, they're not in a lot of ways, they're the
problem or they're caught up in the system.
And it isn't until we say no and starve the market because money
talks, right? So stop, stop saying yes.
It's, it's like the digital ID stuff or when they want to scan
your picture at the airport. I said no every time.
No, you may not. But do you think Kennedy's got a
gun at his head? Well, that's a great, great
question. I don't, I don't know, Although
I think Kennedy men would kind of be used to that idea or the
idea of my young police under bizarre circumstances.
So he does seem to be very courageous, you know, like if I
was sitting down with him, I'd be like, bro, like, what are
you, you know, what are you doing?
Can we talk about like, what's, what's the end game here?
I mean, but the placebo trials, right?
That was announced. Oh, we're all, we're going to do
placebo trials for everything. No, we need to be talking about
criminal trials. Why are you talking about
placebo trials when we need criminal criminal trials?
So, but I'm, I'm not depending on him.
If, if you don't depend on these people, then you're not
disappointed. It's your it's your fellow human
being in your real life that you have to try to, you know,
empowering and and embolden as as much as you can in American
Revolution style. That's where I'm coming from
here. In case you can't catch.
That right in the US, has anybody been held accountable
for anything to do with the COVID event?
Well, no. And in fact, I want to give a
shout out. I don't really know anybody who
has done an actual apology for anything that that that's
happened, except there is a Superintendent of schools in
Illinois now. His name is escaping me.
This is terrible. But I've done a slut sack on
him. But he in 2022 wrote a formal
apology to parents and students and said, I know.
I'm sorry that we made your kids mask.
I'm sorry that we quarantined them.
I mean, a real apology. I haven't, if there are other
examples of that, I'd love for people to send them to me so
that I can highlight them, you know, using my teeny little,
teeny little platform. But but no.
And there haven't really been calls for accountability among
we the people. It's, it's very strange.
But I think we're in this space where, you know, if you got the
COVID shot, you're like, like, OK, like I, I sort of bought
into it. So that's why I'm not, I'm not
into shaming people who got the shot.
I did not, I but I didn't tell anybody else to get it or not
because I'm very libertarian on that front.
I'll tell you not to drink a cheap red wine.
I'll tell you not to get your fillet mignon cooked.
Well done. That to me is an aberration and
I'm not going to seriously. There are priorities.
But you know, it's hard for me to tell you to not get a certain
medical thing done that, that that's very difficult to, to to
me. But this is a problem, Jessica,
that I have noticed, or not a a trend that I've noticed since
Trump won the second term. There's a lot of kicking the can
down the road because the support for Trump outweighs
actually what was happening. So if Trump, if Trump says it
was a lab leak, suddenly it reinforces the idea that there
was a pandemic. And now a big part of his
support base now believe that there was a pandemic.
Right. And then and he has a vested
interest, right. I mean, he, he can't say wait a
minute, there was nothing spreading because as you said,
he, he ordered the the vaccine. So I don't see how he can ever,
I don't see how he can ever go back unless there's some kind of
setup where it's like, oh, the data was bad or, or, or
something like that. But yeah, I think people are
hoping that there's going to be some kind of accountability
through Donald Trump. But he's he's culpable.
Donald Trump, Andrew Cuomo, you know, former governor of New
York, Anthony Fauci, they're all New Yorkers, by the way, and
they are all on the same page. I guarantee that they are all
protecting the pandemic narrative.
And so really for me, it's been so freeing.
And I know Nick Hudson has said this too, when when you realise
there was no sudden spreading virus transmitting, it's like
scales fall from your eyes. And then you can, it's also very
overwhelming by the way, it can be very burdensome.
But then you see their game, you see that what they're protecting
it. It doesn't really have to do
with the origin of the, the the virus.
SARS Kovi 2 could be a thing by by the way, some kind of
identifiable thing. That's why I focus on spread.
There's nothing spreading that was causing a new disease,
right? But they want to keep our focus
on the attributes of SARS Kovi 2 and the spike.
And we know it was man made and, and all of this.
But then when you ask some of these people, well, how did it
get from the lab to everywhere else in the world?
They can't really explain it. And now there's movement toward,
well, it was from the US, it's from the U SS labs.
It's like, Oh my gosh, now we've changed the the scene, right?
We changed the scene of the crime.
But it's the same story being being told.
And no one can answer where was this thing in the data before
emergencies were declared and the deployment of mass testing
took place. And nobody wants to answer that.
RFK is not going to answer that, I'll tell you that.
Well, no, because he also thinks it came from a lab.
Yeah, Well, he's been saying the Wuhan where's where's the book?
I mean, like this, sorry. And you know, this had a lot of
contributors, by the way. OK.
I mean, RFK didn't write this book, right?
I mean, I, I think we knew, we knew what RFK, what the RFK
story was going to be when, when this came out, right?
So I don't think people should be surprised.
It, it's tough when you write a book and you write a book and
you don't sort of leave room for error or uncertainty when you do
this. It's a little hard to get away
from, isn't it? Right.
So it's, it's just, I almost feel like I have to apologise to
the rest of the world. But it, it, it's not only AUS
operation. I think Germany is very culpable
and a lot of things. Actually, actually it was
absolutely worldwide because in 2020, firstly, it wasn't a
coincidence our, our country went into lockdown in the same
week as the UK, which obviously was not a coincidence.
And on top of that, language changed.
Had you ever heard the term social distancing before 2020?
No, no social distancing and I would even say locked out.
I oppose. I'm very opposed to the word
lockdown now. I didn't used to be, but we have
all these terms that were used that are not in the law out, at
least in the US You know, we have laws around the control of
communicable diseases, but words like lockdown and social
distancing are not in there. It's more isolation, quarantine.
Those things actually require official orders.
They're subject to due process. So we had this language of
totalitarianism really coming in in right, in January 2020 with
the lockdown idea, like, oh, China's locking down.
Are they they're locking down. You know, we might have to close
our borders. People have to stay home, right?
So they were keeping us apart because if going back to the
American Revolution for a second that that revolution.
So they say it was planned and you know, by the colonists in in
Taverns, right, People meeting in Taverns and talking about it.
They can't have, you know, for example, you know, your wife and
me, if we both lived in the same community, they can't have us at
the playground while our kids are playing, talking about what
the government is doing. We cannot be sharing a pint at
the local bar, you know. Well, what do you think about
this or what do you think about this?
So they had to keep us apart because they had to keep us from
talking to one another. And so then you saw everybody
goes to social media. Well, they can monitor that and
and they had been for a long time.
They can use that. They can put bot armies out
there that say my cousin died of COVID and you know, they died at
home, stay home, be careful. Do you see how this operation
worked? It's it.
It's scary, but I think if we see their game and we're just
able to call the bluff on it, that's how we disempower it,
that. Will, however, add a caveat
because somebody listening to this will invariably point us
out. The term social distancing was
used before 2020. I don't know if you saw a movie
called Contagion. I had never heard of that movie
until 2020, but it came out in 2012, I think.
And it had big name actors in it.
And, you know, it was on Netflix.
So we watched it and the hair in my arms stood up because they
used the term social distancing. There was a corona virus
outbreak and it was the same thing.
It was almost the same thing as what happened in 2020, and
somehow I've never seen or heard of this movie and the term, but
there it is. Yeah, it's it's interesting to
go back and watch. What's the other movie like
that? Have you ever seen The Arrival?
The. I think so.
Alien 1, like, you know, I, I watched that not too long ago
again and I'm like, oh look, she's in before she encounters
the aliens. They're having her take a
vaccine. Or is it the hiding place?
What's the what's the other one where the aliens come and they
have to be quiet? I can't remember the name of
that one now. But like, you go back and you
look and there, there it is on a screen.
There's a newspaper headline that says like New York City on
lockdown. War of the Worlds.
What? No, not we're the world's.
I can't think of what it's called right now.
But yeah, so there's all these little elements that you see.
And I guess this gets in the predictive programming idea.
And I'm not sure it's all as programmed as as some, some
people think. But I do think that certain
ideas are planted into our heads via Hollywood and and Hollywood
and the government may believe these things themselves, right.
And so they they prime us for the impossible by showing it to
us on screen. Yeah, New York's a great example
because there's no more New York's in every disaster film
about like whether it's attacked by King Kong or a tidal wave or
an asteroid, you know, you're, you're prepared for this idea
that New York is going to be under attack, right.
So I don't think we realise how much these things do influence.
I forgot to ask you earlier, Jessica, when we were talking
about New York, I had a back and forth email conversation some
time ago about New York and the the recipient agreed with me and
said no, there was no mass death, but there was mass
sickness and there was a spike. Do you agree with that?
A. Spike in what?
Sickness. In what?
Respiratory. Respiratory.
In the hospital data there is some interesting patterns with
the way that data are. I would say re categorised and
and presented. What you don't see in the New
York data or really any data around the world with emergency
rooms is you don't see people, any indication that people were
rushing to the emergency room because they were sick.
That's true. When we've interviewed people as
as well. There were some footage taken in
mid March 2020 of lines outside Elmhurst Hospital.
Revisiting that, it looks like a lot of people were there to do
required testing for work or they had been sort of coached to
to line up for it and and then it was done.
And then you see emergency department visits plummet and
stay below baseline for the rest of the year.
I think there was some re categorization of, of data to,
to telehealth. I think that's in, in the mix.
But you know, Jonathan Engler and Martin Neal and I recently
wrote about, you know, the this idea or this contention by Sasha
Latapova and some other people about, well, there was a
poisoning well, there was a poisoning in New York.
We, we don't necessarily see evidence of that.
We see the cardiac arrest event. Now, if somebody can tell me
that there's a poisoning that happened in a certain way and it
triggered cardiac arrest, that looks like a curve, then we can
talk about it. But by and large, and not, not
just with poisoning, but 5G, right?
That's another thing people put out there. 5, there was 5G
turned on in different places around the world.
And I've, I've looked at some of the contentions around that.
And the problem repeatedly is just marrying the, the data with
reports of what was actually going on, on the ground in real
time. But you know, the good news, bad
news is that if there's data fraud, all things are possible.
Yes, all. So everybody should be on team
fraud, you know, regardless of whether of what what they
believe actually occurred. But I mean, bring me your
poisoning theories. You know, Bram, let's let's look
at the data. Let's see how this this played
out. But no, I just don't have New
Yorkers tell me that they knew somebody who became suddenly
sick or that they became suddenly sick.
So if The Who didn't announce anything and nothing happened,
nobody would have noticed anything.
Sure, and a point I want to make about The Who.
I got this from somebody at church the other day.
Like, so are you saying that all these countries decided to do
the same things at the same time?
Like, yes, that is what I'm telling you.
And what you need to know is that a lot of things related to
disease surveillance and oh, there's a new cause of death are
already coordinated through The Who, and they have been for a
long time. So when The Who says, hey
everyone, there's a pandemic, the countries that belong to it
are like, OK, I guess there's a pandemic or hey everyone, here's
a test. That you can use or the OR the
the protocol for the test for this new, new thing or hey,
everyone, there's a new disease and here's how to code for it.
Everybody says yes, right, So they left.
So nothing new I would say was was used.
It was the leveraging of existing systems that allowed
for a coordinated response and that was the Clarion call in
January 2020. If you go back and you look at
leaders from the US or New Zealand or different countries,
the call was for a coordinated response.
So are you saying they coordinated?
Yes, I'm saying they coordinated, you know, they told
us and they're already coordinated on these things.
So I, I tend to be real basic and front facing about these
things rather than trying to find a group of individuals in a
backroom. Are there many backrooms, you
know, where the sausage gets made, as we say in Chicago?
Yes, there are, but I'm I'm not as concerned with that as I am
the front facing what we saw. One of my favourites is when
people say yes, but I lost my sense of taste for six months.
Well, that has to be the world's worst bioweapon.
It's right, right. It's it's a dud.
A but BA lot of the reports, I don't know that people remember
this, but a lot of the reports about losing taste and smell
were really more of a 2021 thing than they were a 2020 thing.
I think people have a short memory when it comes to losing
taste and smell or thinking that things smelled or tasted funny
after getting sick in their previous lives.
I mean, I I can remember that when I was a kid.
It's like you get sick and then things taste and smell funny for
a while. I I think people forget.
I think in the Sebo effect played a role or people
aggrandize their symptoms, right.
I think that happens. I don't know if you know Leo
Biddle, but he Leo Biddle from Borneo or his work, he works a
lot or has in the past with primates.
But he, he put out a really good explanation through experiments
that that he did around the nasal swabs themselves.
Is that you know, the nasal swabs and looking at some of
these, these batches and I can see how there's like little
shards of things on them. I'm not going to get this right,
sorry, Leo, but the nasal swabs themselves could have caused
this loss of taste and smell. And I have to say, I love that
explanation for myself because September 2021, my son and I
were both compelled to to test. We weren't, we weren't sick.
I got something of a cold and headache a couple days after I
tested, lost taste and smell a couple weeks later.
He never had any symptoms of any kind, but a few weeks later is
like, I lost my, you know, my sense of smell and taste.
And so I, I think the swabs themselves could have been a a
culprit. Isn't that genius?
That's pretty genius, isn't it? I mean from a planning
perspective, if you're on the same train as me with that one,
so. Looking back at the last five
years, Jessica, what is the moral of the story?
That's that's a good question. The the moral of the story, I
think. On one level is to demand proof.
When when the government says that there's a threat, you have
to make them substantiated because they're going to keep
doing this and they have done it in the past.
They're going and there are real threats in the world.
I'm not saying that there's not. But when they tell you that
something is happening, you, you have you have to say prove it.
And you can't let them declare an emergency without there
actually being one, whether it's a climate emergency, right?
That's the next thing or, or any other kind of emergency, we have
to demand the proof. And we can't let data on a
screen or really anything on a screen substitute for actual
evidence. And what we're seeing in our, in
our lives or in our day to day experience.
And I, I think, I think we're culpable.
And we're, we're living in a Truman show still where we are,
we are Truman and we're also the audience, but we're also part of
the stage management crew, right?
We're, we're creating this beast.
Where did Donald Trump come from?
And I'm not exactly Donald Trump anti Donald Trump.
So don't take this the wrong way.
Donald Trump is US. Donald Trump is US.
So we we only have ourselves to blame that we have this hyper
reality TV show president. And I could say that for a lot
of other world leaders as well, but it's a representation of us.
So the, the lesson learned is to look, you know, in, in inward,
right? How, how we're, we're culpable
and we've, we're, we're feeding the beast.
Jessica, how can I follow your work?
I am on sub step at. Woodhouse76.com I have two
Twitter accounts. I have a love hate relationship
with Twitter but the the main one I really tweet from again
now is at Woodhouse. It's Wood Underscore house 76.
That's the that's the main one. We don't say Twitter around
these parts. Jessica, I'm sorry.
I can't. I can't.
It's still.
Twitter is only X is like XI can't do it.
So I guess to end the conversation.
Jessica sorry, did man go to the moon?
Well, women. Women have not and you have to
ask yourselves, is the reason that they didn't send a woman is
because the woman would call BS on the whole operation?
Here's the other. Take away if it.
Aggrandizes man's ability over God's.
It's probably a scam. And.
As. Powerful or more?
Powerful than God, it's not. Nope.
On that note, Jessica Harker, thank you for.
Joining me in the trenches. You're welcome.
Thanks so much for having me.