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Hello and welcome to UK column. 
I'm Ben Rubin and I am excited 

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to be sitting in the studio 
today with Will Keate. 

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Hello Will. 
Very good to be here. 

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Thank you, Ben. 
Be here, yeah. 

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And Will is definitely not an 
expert. 

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Thank you. 
But I will say that he is one of

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our great minds and researchers 
as it relates to constitutional 

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issues. 
And I think that's fair to say. 

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He probably wouldn't say that 
himself, but I mean, I'm going 

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to give him. 
I'm going to give him those. 

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Credentials. 
I said definitely. 

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Don't call me an expert. 
Yeah, yes, because we're all, 

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we're always learning. 
Exactly. 

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But it's been a long time. 
Yeah, about 15 years or so on, 

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on constitutional all, I 
suppose. 

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Yeah, in a bit of a while. 
Fantastic. 

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Good stuff. 
And and we're here to talk about

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a very important issue, right, 
Because there are a lot of 

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discussions happening in the 
country at the minute about the 

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future direction of the nation, 
how it will be constituted, how 

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we will be governed. 
And I think it's really 

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important for people to 
understand at a, at a, a 

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fundamental level, what we 
actually already have in place 

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constitutionally, what we're 
supposed to have in place and 

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really kind of start from the 
bottom up basically and kind of 

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layer in the different 
fundamental components of it, 

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right? 
And where are what, what are our

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rights and, and where do they 
come from? 

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And how does our existing system
as it's supposed to work, 

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outperform these new things that
they're trying to bring in? 

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Exactly. 
Yes, absolutely. 

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Yeah, exactly. 
So where do our where do our 

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rights come from? 
Will so our, our, our rights 

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come from, from the natural 
order, from, from nature and, 

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and that, and that's a tricky 
one for people straight away. 

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Or what do you mean by that? 
So what I mean by that is that 

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you can, you can very well, not 
quickly, because it's not an 

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easy study. 
You, you can, you can do some 

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things and recognise some things
quite, quite quickly. 

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Other things, it takes a little 
bit longer to look at the more 

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subtle dynamics of this. 
But if you look at the way that 

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that humans interact with each 
other, if you look at the way 

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that humans interact with with 
reality, so this is really down 

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to our nature, you, you begin to
realise that certain behaviours,

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if you engage in certain 
behaviours, it will go very well

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for you. 
Life will go very well for you. 

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The the natural order and 
reality will will prop you up 

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and assist you in in your your 
living and things will go well. 

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If you engage in certain other 
behaviours, things are going to 

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go very badly wrong and you'll 
get disharmony and chaos and 

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will will manifest in your life.
And that will happen both 

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individually, but it will also 
happen in the collective in the 

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aggregate as well. 
And those those laws and those 

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dynamics of the universe, you 
could say are inherent. 

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They're you can't argue with 
them. 

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They're not man made laws. 
They're just existing laws of 

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the natural order that, that 
determine certain behaviours 

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being a good thing for us and 
other behaviours being a a 

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pretty bad thing for us as well.
And when and when you start to 

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look at that quite closely, you 
can begin to glean what would be

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your rights from right behaviour
and what would be a, a bad idea 

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to go outside what your rights 
would be. 

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You, you find the edges, if you 
like, of what that would be. 

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And you can determine what that 
is. 

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And, and just to cut a Long 
story short, where, where does 

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that take us? 
It takes us essentially down to 

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the, the golden rule, which is 
that my rights end where 

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another's begin. 
And what that actually is doing 

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is, is it's expressing the sort 
of coupled principle there of 

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our individual or fundamental 
rights on the one hand, which 

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is, which is the, the, the 
feminine aspect of us, which is 

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the sort of the freedom aspect. 
And then on the other hand is 

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the, the boundaries and the 
borders to that, which is the 

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equity. 
And what of course we mean by 

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equity, and we've talked about 
this before because that word 

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has been hijacked. 
What it actually means is that 

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we're all under the same set of 
standards. 

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We're all held to account under 
law equally. 

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Yeah. 
So we're all under the law 

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equally. 
That's what equity means 

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specifically and should mean. 
And, and it's, it's the two of 

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those ideas together, the 
individual or fundamental rights

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on the one hand, which is that I
am self determining. 

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I can make my own choices that I
feel are best for me. 

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But where you start to see those
encroaching on someone else's 

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ability to exercise their 
choices, that's the equity 

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that's coming into play there. 
And that's natural, natural 

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rights. 
That's natural law at play 

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there. 
You're beginning to see coming 

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through. 
And that's how we determine a 

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legitimate rule of law. 
So now we're starting to sort of

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just bring to the surface there,
well, what is our man made rule 

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of law in our community? 
If you base it on natural 

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rights, natural principles of 
justice, then then your 

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community's going to go, OK, 
you're going to go all right 

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there. 
Things are going to unfold 

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pretty well for you. 
If you distort that and you 

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start to ignore those 
fundamental principles and you 

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get away, you move away from my 
rights and where another's begin

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and you start to introduce the 
concept of coercion, that 

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someone is taking a a view of 
how other people should live. 

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I am going to to decide what's 
best for you, whether you like 

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it or not, right? 
These are the kinds of phrases 

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of a collectivist and we could 
get into that. 

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What that is then think you are 
introducing some concepts, 

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concepts and some principles 
that are going to take you into 

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a very bad place, you and your 
community. 

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And that's going to manifest at 
a kind of micro level, all kinds

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of dynamics that are going to 
take you down. 

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OK. 
So that give you a sort of a. 

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There's a lot. 
There's quite a lot in there. 

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Yeah, yeah, quite. 
A bit to unpack, but. 

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Yeah, Well, let's, let's wind 
this one back. 

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I've written a few things down, 
right? 

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So the first one is that 
essentially these laws are 

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immutable and they're, yes, 
they're embedded into the fabric

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of reality completely, right. 
So it's almost, it's almost like

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physical laws, like gravity. 
Very. 

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Similar to that, the laws of 
thermodynamics, anything like 

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that. 
Exactly. 

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You can compare it to that kind 
of thing. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
Right. 

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OK. 
And, and when and when we when 

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we break these laws, we descend 
into disharmony and chaos. 

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Absolutely. 
That's exactly it. 

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Yes. 
And it feels like we are 

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descending into disharmony and 
chaos. 

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Probably does. 
Yeah, increasingly so, actually,

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Yes. 
Yeah. 

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And and the thing that I would, 
I mean maybe the next place we 

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go there is well how much do we 
do? 

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Do we spot this and understand 
these principles? 

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Because what is often 
misunderstood is that, you know,

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because we like to hurl abuse at
the, the, the powers that be 

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and, and, and, and 
understandably so, and rightly 

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so in many, many respects. 
The difficulty is that to a very

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large extent we are doing this 
to ourselves because we don't 

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spot this, we don't understand 
it properly, we don't 

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acknowledge it either. 
And so we engage in behaviours 

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that that are self sabotaging, 
we end up taking ourselves down 

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through in, in, in attention, 
not focusing on these things 

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ourselves. 
So we think we have a moral 

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right to stand on the moral high
ground here and to, to blame the

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powers that be And, and in many 
respects we do. 

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But we also don't realise that 
we've engaged in certain 

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behaviours and dynamics that 
have kind of put them there in 

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the 1st place and allowed it to 
happen as well. 

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Yes. 
Yeah. 

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And that's essentially we're 
outsourcing our agency to other 

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to others and. 
That's not the behaviour of a 

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sovereign. 
Right. 

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OK, well, that's an important 
word, right? 

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What is sovereignty? 
Well, exactly. 

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We'll come back to that. 
OK. 

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So let me just just pick up on a
couple of other things that you 

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said there. 
So you talked about this idea of

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freedom and that and that 
resonating with the the feminine

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aspect. 
And then you introduced equity. 

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So we can be free, but we also 
have to be. 

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Boundaries and. 
Borders and there, but there are

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boundaries and borders to that. 
Does that, does that then 

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conversely resonate with the 
masculine? 

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Yes. 
Yeah, totally, because because 

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that's about control, right. 
OK. 

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And you need a mid position of 
that. 

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You need a balanced position, 
yes. 

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You know, and, and in spiritual 
science, we, you might describe 

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that as the Christ impulse, you 
know, which is the impulse of 

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love, which is, you know, 
giving, giving people the, the, 

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the freedom to, to make their 
own choices, but also 

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understanding that there are 
naturally existing boundaries to

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that as well. 
And yeah, that absolutely. 

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And that and that would be 
expressed as individualism, as a

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as a kind of philosophy of 
individualism. 

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Yes, OK. 
So that's, that's and actually 

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within what you've already said,
it's really interesting this 

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because we're we have these 
conversations and I think some 

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people will listen to this and 
go, well, hang on a minute. 

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You haven't actually said what 
the, you know, the laws are the 

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right or rights are. 
But actually within, yeah, the 

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Golden Rule, you are free up 
until the point where you 

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impinge on the freedom of 
others. 

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Where you hurt others or remove 
their choices. 

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Yes, then then actually that 
that actually covers basically 

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totally. 
Isn't it? 

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Yeah. 
Completely, Yeah. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah. 

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So where are we really breaking 
these, these, these laws at the 

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moment then we're, I mean, it's 
basically everywhere, isn't it? 

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If you think about the way that 
our system's currently 

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constituted and and the way that
people are behaving within it, 

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yes, this is happening all the 
time. 

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It is yes. 
And and and so actually, if we 

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if we start to sort of paint the
picture of how our authentic 

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rule of law was always supposed 
to function. 

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Yes. 
OK. 

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That's a good place to start. 
Yeah. 

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Look at how the Constitution was
originally set up and how it was

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intended. 
Yeah, it's based on a set of of 

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customary principles that had 
been learnt from natural law. 

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And all right, from a historical
perspective, we could go into 

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that. 
And, and those principles are 

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that that man governs 
themselves, that it's self 

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governance. 
You don't constitute a 

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government such that it can act 
under its own volition to start 

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imposing regulation and rules on
the citizenry. 

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00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,600
What what actually should be 
happening is that the the 

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citizenry owns its laws and that
any government in inverted 

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00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,560
commas, but let's call it an 
administration more correctly 

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and America got that right of 
course, in doing that. 

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That was a reflection of of 
truth that that any 

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administration that you have in 
the public space, really its job

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is to execute the wishes of self
management and self governance 

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by the people. 
Right. 

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00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,160
And so the key question at that 
point comes up, which is, well, 

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what? 
What is that? 

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That man made mechanism that 
that needs to exist within our 

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constitutional rule of law that 
allows for the people to govern 

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themselves, to allow them to 
decide on the the edges of 

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acceptable behaviour that they 
wish to abide by. 

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00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:54,080
Yes, that's that's really what 
what you're getting to. 

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That's the piece in between that
takes us to our man made rule of

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law, if you like. 
And and that's why because I 

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started life actually as a 
voluntarist really. 

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00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,280
And I started life. 
Well, I suppose I did when I was

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born, I was a voluntarist then 
maybe as well. 

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But what I mean is, is I started
my journey, you know, sort of, I

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don't know, about 20 years ago 
perhaps as a voluntarist with 

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sort of anarchist leanings. 
And I was following that. 

230
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,200
And then I started to look at, 
at, at the English 

231
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,040
constitutional law. 
And I was seeing all kinds of 

232
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,120
contradictions and all kinds of 
cyclic arguments in the way that

233
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,120
the English constitution is 
described and expressed. 

234
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,560
And I thought there's something 
not right here because it, it 

235
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:41,120
doesn't fit these principles of 
volunteerism, this idea that we 

236
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,360
should be self determining, that
we should be self governing. 

237
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,800
And then I started to peel more 
and more layers back. 

238
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,120
And I realised that actually 
what was happening was that the 

239
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,200
English constitutional law was 
being expressed incorrectly and 

240
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,440
that you have to pull enough of 
those layers back to get to the 

241
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,480
authentic English constitution 
as it was supposed to function. 

242
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,120
And if you keep going back 
through those layers, what you 

243
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:12,440
ultimately end up with is a a 
framework or a rule of law that 

244
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:18,240
essentially places trial by jury
at its centre and trial by jury.

245
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,520
But this is the key with the key
feature of jury independence, 

246
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:29,160
which is that that the jury gets
to decide justice independently 

247
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,840
of any man made laws that are 
created through a legislature. 

248
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,640
And so you decide on the justice
independently of that meaning, 

249
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:44,280
meaning my conscious decision as
a juror according to my 

250
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:49,240
conscience is not bound by the 
legislation that brought the 

251
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,200
defendant into court in the 1st 
place. 

252
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,640
And and that is the paramount 
feature of your constitution 

253
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,800
because if you don't put that 
front and centre as the central 

254
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,160
pillar of your constitution, you
don't actually have self 

255
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,680
governance. 
You don't have a mechanism by 

256
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,120
which the people can govern 
themselves. 

257
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,600
It's missing, right? 
And this, this most famously was

258
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,240
codified in Magna Carta, right? 
So if you go and read Magna 

259
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,240
Carta again, similarly to what I
was just saying a moment ago, I 

260
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,760
actually I only read it for the 
first time recently and I was 

261
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,440
kind of going weird. 
Bits in that as well. 

262
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,440
Oh, yeah, of course. 
Yeah. 

263
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,480
You know, what did they say? 
The past is a foreign country. 

264
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:35,840
They do things differently 
there, right? 

265
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,920
A lot of it doesn't quite add up
with us. 

266
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,720
Because a lot of it was about 
local and current time. 

267
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,280
Yeah, exactly. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

268
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,240
But and then and then the sort 
of pointy bits as it relates to 

269
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,840
what we're talking about, 
they're actually quite sparse. 

270
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,040
So it's slightly well you have, 
you have, you have a jury trial.

271
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,480
Yeah, and so Article 39 and 40 
are the most important. 

272
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,560
Thing you go you know exactly I 
do right but is it but, but, but

273
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,760
actually and, and, and that that
therein lies your your, your 

274
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,600
governance model correct and 
actually and so oh wow, okay. 

275
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,320
It's it's incredibly 
lightweight. 

276
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360
It's incredibly powerful, Yeah. 
But quite straight away. 

277
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,080
Well, exactly, Yeah. 
Yeah. 

278
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,600
Exactly, exactly. 
And, and and essentially at that

279
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,480
point is this is this, is this 
anarchy? 

280
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,760
Is this a form of anarchy? 
Would that fit into that 

281
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,800
bracket? 
Essentially self governance. 

282
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,840
It's sort of a bit anarchistic 
like if you want to put it like 

283
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,120
that, but it's with the sort of 
protection and framework of, of,

284
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,160
of, of, of public justice, which
is carries the recognition. 

285
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,200
And, and I would say that that's
a principle of natural law that 

286
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,120
we submit to the consciences of 
those around us in our 

287
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,360
community, right? 
That's so I would describe trial

288
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,560
by jury as just a more formal 
expression under English law of 

289
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,280
a natural law tribunal. 
Yeah. 

290
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,040
And, and that, that, that 
natural law tribunal, that's 

291
00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,160
just reflecting a principle that
we, if we do something wrong or 

292
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,040
it's perceived by the community 
that we may have done something 

293
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,400
that is, is, is dangerous to 
somebody, that we've, that we've

294
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:14,120
hurt someone, that, that we are 
then brought to a space. 

295
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,920
And that is considered and the 
evidence is put before before 

296
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,760
the court, if you like. 
And all of that is thrashed 

297
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,680
through, but it's done by our 
peers, it's done by our social 

298
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,280
equals, because that's a 
reflection of the equity, right.

299
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,320
And and so really, trial by jury
is just a sort of formalised 

300
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,920
version of what I would call a 
natural law tribunal 

301
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:34,920
essentially. 
Yeah. 

302
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,600
And, and actually, you could, 
you can look at that and say, 

303
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,000
well, it's kind of an 
inevitable. 

304
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,720
It's a little bit like, you 
know, the the language, language

305
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,360
that was used by the the 
forefathers of the American 

306
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,720
Constitution when they said we 
hold these truths to be self 

307
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,680
evident, right. 
So there's a reflection, if you 

308
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,560
like, in there of the 
recognition that this is about 

309
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,360
natural justice. 
It's about the principles of 

310
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,400
natural law that, that this is, 
is fairness and equity here at 

311
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,560
play. 
And if you're going to have 

312
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,280
equity, then then you, you have 
everybody judging the law 

313
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,880
essentially and being, yeah, 
being a judge of that, of that 

314
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960
justice. 
Yes, and and and the, the, the 

315
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:21,680
jury's role is to is to judge 
the the legislation as much as 

316
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,920
it is to judge totally the the 
individual who's on trial. 

317
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,599
Absolutely, because you're. 
So it's like self. 

318
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,480
Correcting essentially exactly 
right yeah, yeah and and and 

319
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,360
because your God given 
consciences sits higher than 

320
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:38,880
than a a man made political 
opinion on on a on the formation

321
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,160
of legislation. 
Yeah. 

322
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,800
And that's not to say that you 
can't have legislation, you 

323
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,800
know, but you've got to be 
guarded and vigilant to make 

324
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,600
sure that any legislation that 
is created for practical 

325
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,360
purposes, you know, it's it's 
kind of like using the phrase 

326
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:57,720
for the avoidance of doubt. 
You could say that in a way 

327
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,120
that's the purpose of 
legislation for the avoidance of

328
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,200
doubt, etcetera. 
That's fine to do that. 

329
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,080
And you would hope that all 
legislation on your statute 

330
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,760
book, which would, which would 
mean probably very little 

331
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,440
legislation has to be in 
alignment with natural law 

332
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,840
principles. 
But all legislation must come 

333
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,240
before that natural law tribunal
to be tested every single time 

334
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,560
that someone is is in court. 
Yes. 

335
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,920
OK. 
So this, so then in terms of the

336
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,880
the way that this has been 
captured, we have Magna Carta, 

337
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,880
12/15 Magna Carta. 
That's the sort of the original 

338
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,240
that's the most gold standard. 
It's the most recent expression 

339
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,360
of it, and it's an important 
thing to correct. 

340
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,960
That's often stated incorrectly 
that that sort of started it 

341
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,200
all. 
And that's not the case because 

342
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,600
remember that what we're doing 
is reflecting truths, yeah, that

343
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,600
already exist. 
So you So what? 

344
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,000
More correctly, you would say 
that Magna Carta is the most 

345
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,640
recent expression of the 
principles of our Constitution, 

346
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,400
right? 
The 12:50. 

347
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,680
That's where it was written 
down, essentially. 

348
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,280
Just to be absolutely clear. 
Yeah, this is how things are 

349
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,440
supposed to work. 
Absolutely. 

350
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,120
But and, and then since then, 
suppose that 800 and 810 years 

351
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,120
now, it's just been a constant 
process of governments and 

352
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,880
monarchs attempting to degrade 
the the rights of. 

353
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,360
Yeah, it's a mix of that, but 
they keep people capitalising 

354
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:31,880
on, on, on power grabs. 
But it's also the the, the 

355
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,560
citizenry becoming lazy as well 
because, because maybe we quite 

356
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,480
like the idea of representative 
government as it was sold to us.

357
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,800
So we begin to get to the point 
of, well, if we're going to 

358
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,280
manage our society from the 
centre through policy and 

359
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,560
regulation, because actually in 
for all of us to have a kind of 

360
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,720
a centrally and managed society 
that's efficient, then then we 

361
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,000
need to drive policy and 
regulation from the centre. 

362
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:02,760
Now you're getting into a very 
dangerous place because actually

363
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,280
you can't do that under the 
principles that we've just 

364
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,120
explained, which is my rights 
and where and others begin, 

365
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:13,520
begin what you're claiming. 
Incorrectly is that you think 

366
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,960
you have the right to do that by
the fact that that piece of 

367
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:22,040
policy is supported by a by the 
opinions of a larger number. 

368
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,040
So now we're into this whole 
business that you you claim 

369
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,480
legitimacy through majority yes 
and that really was green 

370
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:36,240
lighted and 1st legitimised 
through the glorious revolution 

371
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,600
and the Bill of Rights. 
That was the point really, that 

372
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:41,600
so a lot of people make the 
mistake. 

373
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,840
They think the Bill of Rights 
was an extension of our 

374
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,480
constitutional principles. 
But look at, if you peel enough 

375
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,720
of the, of the onion layers back
philosophically, what you, you 

376
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,520
come to realise is that what was
formed ideologically at that 

377
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,760
point by John Locke and and, and
others and and and the Whigs, if

378
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,480
you like, at that time was 
actually a, an ideology that is 

379
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,560
in, in, in complete opposition 
right to the authentic rule of 

380
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,560
law. 
Yes, but that's not how it's 

381
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,440
sold to us. 
No, and that's a glorious 

382
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,680
revolution. 
Glorious revolution. 

383
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,280
If it was anything but glorious,
really. 

384
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,320
It was actually a coup of 
England, really. 

385
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,360
But yeah. 
OK. 

386
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,080
Probably won't have time to go 
into that, but. 

387
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,080
Yes, well, I mean, there's, 
there's so much to, to, to 

388
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,120
expand on and I hope people take
this as an opportunity to go off

389
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,680
and do their own research as 
ever with anything that we would

390
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,120
call in UK column right. 
This should be a starting point 

391
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,920
for people, um, rather than an 
end point. 

392
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,600
So that's, so that's, that's 
interesting. 

393
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,440
The tyranny of the majority. 
There's this term that gets used

394
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,560
a lot, which is liberal 
democracy. 

395
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,760
And I always define that as 
liberal. 

396
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,280
We can do whatever we want, yes,
democracy, if enough people go 

397
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,040
along with. 
It Right. 

398
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,560
Exactly. 
And that gives you the 

399
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,920
legitimacy to remove the 
individual rights of the 

400
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:58,920
minority? 
Yes. 

401
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,920
Just because a greater number of
people think that thing. 

402
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,160
Yeah. 
No, you don't have the moral 

403
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,200
authority to do that. 
Yeah, yeah, we. 

404
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,040
But. 
And they're trying to bend the 

405
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,120
universe to their will, 
essentially. 

406
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:11,520
Right. 
Because it doesn't matter how 

407
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,040
many people say if he's wrong, 
yes, and he's wrong, yeah. 

408
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,760
You can't precisely change 
truth. 

409
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,440
Yes, to fit you, to fit your 
agenda. 

410
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,000
Yes, right and wrong behaviour 
already exists objectively. 

411
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,640
Yeah. 
In, in, in the universe. 

412
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,760
I say that because actually it's
important to also to understand 

413
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,320
that, that we have moral 
conundrums. 

414
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,400
So it's not always clear in 
every situation. 

415
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,560
The principles are objective. 
Yeah. 

416
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,800
So you can start to glean from a
study of natural law that the 

417
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,440
principles are there. 
There's no question about it 

418
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,000
that that that the universe 
requires, you know, self 

419
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,280
governance, personal choice, 
because what does that lead to? 

420
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,040
It leads to self responsibility 
and trustworthiness. 

421
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,360
Yeah. 
It becomes, in other words, what

422
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:56,920
you're aiming for is for every 
individual to become a self 

423
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,400
master of themselves. 
Yeah. 

424
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,840
You don't submit and become a 
become weak. 

425
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,400
That's that's not a, a growth in
your humanity. 

426
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,480
It's not an evolution. 
That's a devolution when you 

427
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,880
submit through compliance. 
Yeah. 

428
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:21,400
So that's opening up consensus, 
groupthink, compliance being 

429
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,400
problematic. 
Yeah, it opens up a whole load. 

430
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,000
You're going to need a whole pad
of paper for this. 

431
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,200
No that. 
Would feel weak. 

432
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,360
This is good, yeah. 
This is great. 

433
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,480
Well, no, the one that the one 
that always lands with me is, is

434
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,600
personal choice and 
responsibility ultimately, 

435
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:35,920
right? 
And, and people might get a 

436
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,920
little bit upset when I say 
this, but I'm going to say it 

437
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,040
anyway, right? 
Which is and and actually, this 

438
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,320
is the only way to actually go 
about fixing anything is to 

439
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,040
think about what did I do wrong 
here? 

440
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,360
Yeah, right. 
And, and this is this is the bit

441
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,560
that people find really 
difficult because the world is 

442
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,440
going to hell in a handbasket at
the moment. 

443
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,040
We've talked about the fact that
disharmony and chaos is 

444
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,720
proliferating and and the 
natural order is being 

445
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,680
undermined. 
And we actually have to take 

446
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,840
responsibility for that. 
What have we done as individuals

447
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,200
in order to facilitate that? 
And there will be many things. 

448
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,720
All right. 
And actually, there's a lot of 

449
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:18,120
people who, who sit in the the 
truth movement, the freedom 

450
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,600
movement, whatever you want to 
call it, who, who have a, a 

451
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,640
little bit of a holier than thou
attitude about, about the way 

452
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,120
things are going and essentially
that it's nothing to do with 

453
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,960
them and it's all to do with the
other people. 

454
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,000
And often oversimplify justice 
as well, not realise that that 

455
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,320
actually justice and moral 
conundrums are complex and 

456
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,960
there's, and there's nuance 
that's required in these things,

457
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,000
you know, So you get a lot of 
people in the freedom and all 

458
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,360
these people must go to prison 
or, and that's where we get sort

459
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,800
of positions where, where we've 
got some members of, of of sort 

460
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,120
of freedom movement circles, if 
you like, calling for the death 

461
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,600
penalty. 
Well, to be doing that at a time

462
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,960
when your government is becoming
more tyrannical is really a very

463
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280
stupid thing to be doing, I, I 
would say. 

464
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,280
But anyway. 
Yeah, be careful what you wish 

465
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:02,960
for, right? 
Yeah. 

466
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,280
Exactly. 
I mean, one should say perhaps 

467
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,680
at this point that, that just to
sort of explore that a little 

468
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:16,880
bit more, is that when, when you
lose track of, of your grounding

469
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,760
ideology and your principles and
you start to take on belief 

470
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,520
systems that fly in the face of 
truth and that society does it 

471
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,280
broadly without noticing it, 
without spotting it. 

472
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,760
What you end up taking on as 
beliefs is things that will, 

473
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,200
will generate unintended 
consequences. 

474
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,400
And actually, that's what we're 
seeing now in the size of the 

475
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,080
state. 
So the size of the, the state is

476
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,400
now collapsing under its own 
weight of complexity. 

477
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,800
I I would argue through, through
the the production of, of too 

478
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:57,040
much regulation and legislation 
and, and that and that's the 

479
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,120
issue. 
And so, So what quite often we 

480
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:05,040
see as crimes of the state 
against us isn't necessarily 

481
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,320
like it's people out to get you 
because they all know it's not 

482
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,680
that. 
It's quite often the unfolding 

483
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,160
subtle dynamics of the fact that
we've already outsourced and 

484
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,400
that people in government have 
huge pressures and expectations 

485
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,240
on them to legislate because 
because we've outsourced it. 

486
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,160
And and what you're now seeing 
as a result of that is it all 

487
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,480
falling apart because we've just
gone and created too much, too 

488
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,360
much regulation, unintended 
consequence is that. 

489
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,600
Yes, and, and actually you've, 
we've created through the 

490
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,160
civilizational structure that 
we've adopted over the past 

491
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,720
several centuries, the way the 
education system works, like 

492
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,760
the, the, the whole setup, 
basically you've got a class of 

493
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,800
people in the civil service, in 
the political class essentially 

494
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,920
who only actually understand how
to write laws and enact laws. 

495
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,480
That's their currency, that's 
what they trade in. 

496
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,280
And they've developed this 
mindset that, and you've seen 

497
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,800
this all over the place, right? 
That if we write it down hard 

498
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,360
enough, then it will then it 
will be so. 

499
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,240
Yeah, right. 
And, and this obsession with 

500
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,680
policy, we need policy for this,
policy for that. 

501
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,960
If we write the right policy, 
then the world will change. 

502
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,720
Like you can write whatever you 
want if it's, if it's, if it's 

503
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,080
impractical, unfeasible, UN 
actually undesirable for this 

504
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,120
thing to actually to to to 
manifest. 

505
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,840
And at the point when they come 
up with it, yeah, they won't see

506
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,880
those unintended concepts. 
Absolutely no. 

507
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,560
And so that that's the complete 
introducing complexity, yes, in 

508
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,480
a left brain sense. 
And layering it and it's just 

509
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,440
more complexity on top of more 
complexity on top of more 

510
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,520
complexity. 
And then and then the whole 

511
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,680
thing just. 
Yeah, it could. 

512
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,120
It just becomes, it breaks under
the weight of its own country. 

513
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,240
Internal contradictions. 
Yeah. 

514
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,080
You know, it's actually sort of 
descent into lunacy, basically. 

515
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,560
It's what we're looking at. 
Yeah, it is complete. 

516
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,720
Form of madness. 
Complete madness and that's, you

517
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:05,280
know, basically half of our our 
economic output, you know, as a 

518
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,360
sort of yardstick for how much 
time and energy and effort that 

519
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,640
takes up in in our society at 
the moment because, you know, 

520
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,800
basically 50% of our GDP is 
government spend. 

521
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,480
Then then since management 
exactly half of what half of 

522
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,120
what happens in terms of 
productive. 

523
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,000
Well, I say productive, not 
probably productive in terms of 

524
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,480
activity, let's say in the 
country is just managing the the

525
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,840
the lunacy and adding on 
additional players to it. 

526
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,200
Absolutely right. 
You couldn't make it up really. 

527
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,720
It's a very shortly shame it is,
but we do need some. 

528
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,080
We talked about administration, 
right? 

529
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,720
Use that term, You know, so it's
very easy to be kind of 

530
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,360
absolutist and say, well, we 
should have no government 

531
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,000
whatsoever, but there actually 
is a role for some kind of 

532
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,320
administration of the system 
that we've described, right, 

533
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,880
Because you have a trial by 
jury. 

534
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,720
Justice system. 
The justice system, right, 

535
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,800
because you need a judiciary, 
you have a trial, you're going 

536
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,720
to have a trial and you need a 
judge, you need someone to, to, 

537
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,360
to oversee that. 
And, and also you, you know, 

538
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,920
ultimately the role of the state
and Mike talks about this quite 

539
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,960
a lot, right? 
Is actually the the only role 

540
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,920
the state really should be to 
protect the weak and the 

541
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,800
powerful. 
Yes, it feels it is hold the 

542
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,040
individual rights in the way of 
life of the people. 

543
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,560
Yes, that's essentially what it 
is. 

544
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,480
Yeah. 
So you're right. 

545
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,320
I mean, just just to get into 
that, you know, because the 

546
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,240
systems of justice that you have
in place there and the 

547
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,520
mechanisms that have to be 
there, how do you manage that if

548
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,400
you don't have a state? 
And and those are interesting 

549
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,360
questions. 
But the first thing actually you

550
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,800
were saying about a judge, the 
judge is not really meant to be 

551
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,560
the judge because the, the, the,
the judges, if you, you know, we

552
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,480
call it the independent 
judiciary. 

553
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,680
Yeah, well, the independent 
judiciary is really the people 

554
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,360
themselves. 
Right. 

555
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,480
Yeah, the members of the of the 
jury. 

556
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,000
It's the people governing 
themselves. 

557
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,480
Self governance. 
They're like, they're like the 

558
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,320
referees, what they should be. 
Doing right, yes, in the game. 

559
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,960
So the the judge you could think
of perhaps it's often thought 

560
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,960
that that the judge's original 
purpose was more like a 

561
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,120
convener. 
Yeah, the president of the 

562
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,280
proceedings, you know who's 
who's sort of pulling it all 

563
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,960
together And, and who are they? 
Well, they're just, they're just

564
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,360
volunteers of the community 
stepping up to do that job. 

565
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,160
Yeah. 
And that's what we mean by the 

566
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120
public in a sense, is just 
people who, well, we know that 

567
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,200
certain jobs have got to be 
done, so we're going to 

568
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,280
volunteer to do those things. 
And that's how it's evolved. 

569
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,560
That's in, you know, over time. 
But, but unfortunately the 

570
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,440
distortions have come in that 
actually it's the, it's the 

571
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,560
judge's role to judge the law. 
So the mantra that's often put 

572
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,280
out now by our justice system is
that, you know, even even in, in

573
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,680
our trial by jury now, by the 
way, and only 1% of cases reach 

574
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,320
trial by jury, I should say that
at this point. 

575
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,840
So Muhammad is 1% really. 
So we're the thing that we're 

576
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,720
guaranteed in a bad place, the 
thing that we're. 

577
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,720
Guaranteed. 
Yeah. 

578
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,040
Only 1% of cases. 
So we've got a problem with the 

579
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,360
Magistrates Court in a big way, 
right? 

580
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,840
Yeah. 
So the modern justice system 

581
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,800
puts out the mantra that the, 
that the, that the jury judges 

582
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,960
the facts and the judge judges 
the law. 

583
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,120
And this is just put out as a 
kind of a, an accepted mantra. 

584
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,560
But actually the if you go back 
and look at the history and even

585
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,520
further back into Saxon times 
and in other parts of of of 

586
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,400
Europe, you can go into look at 
the history of the jury in 

587
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,560
Scandinavia even as well. 
And you can start to see that in

588
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,120
fact, and this is, this is one 
of the sort of slightly 

589
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,120
disingenuous arguments that's 
used by the establishment. 

590
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,800
Oh no, there was no history of 
trial by jury. 

591
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,360
Well, the reason for that is 
because what, what they're 

592
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,200
comparing it with is, is the is 
with the distorted version of 

593
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,840
trial by jury that you have now,
which is this what I've just 

594
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,680
explained, that the jury doesn't
have the right to judge the law.

595
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,240
The further back you go. 
And if you go back into Saxon 

596
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,920
times, actually it was 1 and the
same. 

597
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:09,200
So you you have the OR twelve 
citizens that you could think of

598
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,000
as a jury. 
What they were actually doing 

599
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,920
was doing was judging all 
matters. 

600
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,560
They were judging the law, 
probably the admissibility of 

601
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,760
evidence themselves as well. 
They were judging the facts and 

602
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,320
they were judging the 
punishment. 

603
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:22,760
Right. 
I was going to ask about the 

604
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,280
sentence. 
Yeah. 

605
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,160
Yeah, all four, all four 
aspects. 

606
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,680
Of the case because that's 
essentially now held by the the 

607
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,640
the the the judge, isn't it the 
judge decides the sentence yeah 

608
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
and and a lot of the time 
they'll be issuing guidance on 

609
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,800
all sorts of. 
Right components. 

610
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,880
Well, the judges themselves are 
also being Hanford by ever 

611
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,000
increased increasing justice 
from the justice to the Ministry

612
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,280
of Justice, the Sentencing 
Council, which creates which 

613
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,200
which which people in the 
freedom movement are beginning 

614
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,920
to learn about because it all 
came up in this 22 tier justice 

615
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,720
stuff that everybody was talking
about. 

616
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,560
And we've now learnt, of course,
that, well, people have 

617
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,440
generally learnt now that that 
even judges themselves are being

618
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,640
Hanford by sentencing 
guidelines, which are becoming 

619
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,440
sort of ever increasingly 
complex and rigorous as well. 

620
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,400
Now, what is that? 
Well, what it is in fact is 

621
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,280
because the, the Ministry of 
Justice really falls under the 

622
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,440
executive, which is, you know, 
the Cabinet Office and, and, 

623
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,880
and, and so what's happening 
there is that you've got a kind 

624
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:28,200
of a form of legislating for how
judges now see, see justice and,

625
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,920
and, and yeah, it's so you've 
got these kind of complex. 

626
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,800
And yet at the same time we're 
pretending that we have 

627
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,080
separation of powers in the 
three branches of government, 

628
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,120
which which frankly, I see as 
APR exercise and nothing more. 

629
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,240
The whole, the whole 3 branches 
of government is for me just a 

630
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,840
smoke and mirrors exercise 
actually, because they still 

631
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,440
have those connections all over 
the place between in, in the big

632
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,360
broad machinery of government. 
You've got, I think Mike was 

633
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,280
saying that you've got this, 
this whole business of the 

634
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,880
Cabinet Office effectively or 
the, the, the executive in the 

635
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,040
form of the Prime Minister and 
his cabinet sitting in the 

636
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,560
legislature anyway. 
And the top of the legislature 

637
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,600
was a court. 
Well, it's all a court actually.

638
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,480
And in was it 2005, you've got 
the breaking off of the, the 

639
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:23,040
appellate committee of the, the,
the upper house is now the 

640
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,159
Supreme Court. 
Whereas actually, really all of 

641
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,639
this is meant to be joined up 
thinking under the King. 

642
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,280
Yes, and, and, and let's stop 
pretending otherwise, right? 

643
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,719
And, and you've got, you know, 
things like the King's 

644
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,600
prerogative powers being 
borrowed by the Prime Minister. 

645
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,719
That's just madness. 
It's all just smoke and mirrors 

646
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,239
I think. 
Yes, yeah, yeah, they're they're

647
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,920
they're playing games, yeah. 
And this has been going on for 

648
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,800
quite some time. 
So basically because you just 

649
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,560
talked about the Glorious 
Revolution, when was that 16? 

650
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,400
SO168891689 was all, all 
happening and, and the yeah, it,

651
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,160
it was sort of, you know, the, 
the, the framing of of James the

652
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,480
second as a, as a, as a bad 
king, When in fact, actually, if

653
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,680
you take a closer look, I'm sure
you didn't do everything right. 

654
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,160
But if you take a closer look at
what James the Second was doing,

655
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,240
he was very concerned about 
civil rights. 

656
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:17,800
He was concerned about these 
issues. 

657
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,160
He was actually quite a good 
king. 

658
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,280
If you look at his actions and 
what was really going on. 

659
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:27,160
And, and, and actually what came
in at the Glorious Revolution 

660
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,560
was, was a sort of through a 
kind of load of silent 

661
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,720
conventions, was this elevation 
of Parliament, which is a really

662
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,960
so it looked like, you know, for
the people at the time, as 

663
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,680
though this might be a really 
good thing because it's all 

664
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,080
about your representation in 
Parliament for policy. 

665
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,760
And, and we've been through that
adult suffrage, the dangers of 

666
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,560
adult suffrage, which is what 
voting in, in elections in that,

667
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,640
in that respect, in order to 
bring about party policy. 

668
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,440
That's what it does. 
And so that's what it brought 

669
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,600
about. 
And then, of course, you had the

670
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,080
formation of the Bank of England
in 1694. 

671
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,080
You had the, the, the, the 
creation of the, of the new 

672
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,160
political union with Scotland in
what was it 1707? 

673
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,160
I think it was soon after so you
can see how all of this started 

674
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,600
to happen then that that was 
when it all. 

675
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,440
Started centralisation of power 
basically and completely 

676
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,560
disenfranchising the the the, 
the common man. 

677
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,320
Ultimately, you know the the the
the wider population. 

678
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,960
That's not to say that things 
were not all Absolutely Fabulous

679
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,400
before that, because of course 
you had a century in the 17th 

680
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,880
century of absolute chaos where 
the kings were actually getting 

681
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,040
out of hand and, and the, the 
divine right of kings in the way

682
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,800
that that was expressed became a
problem in its own right. 

683
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,120
But what had happened is that 
people forgot the mechanism for 

684
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,920
bringing the king to account, 
the head of state to account 

685
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,120
through his own trial by jury, 
which is essentially what Magna 

686
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,040
Carta was all about. 
They brought the, the king, King

687
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,200
John to account through his 
peers, the peers of the realm. 

688
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,040
It's kind of holding a, a court 
essentially that you've breached

689
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,960
your coronation oath that 
already existed. 

690
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,800
Yeah. 
The principles of, of your 

691
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,360
coronation oath, which is 
customary common law. 

692
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,240
You, you've, you've committed 
crimes under our constitutional 

693
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,680
law, which already existed. 
And we're bringing you to 

694
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,320
account, and we're going to hold
you to this in perpetuity. 

695
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:27,720
And you're going to sign or seal
rather that in perpetuity so 

696
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,080
that the administration that's 
formed is formed under this 

697
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,200
limitation. 
Yeah, it always was under that 

698
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,920
limitation, by the way, But it's
just for the avoidance of doubt.

699
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,560
Here it is again. 
So that's what Magna Carta was. 

700
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,600
Right. 
And how many iterations have 

701
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,440
have there been of Magna Carta 
itself, right, Because there are

702
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,600
versions of it. 
So I think even within that 

703
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,480
document there, there have been 
attempts to reduce its its 

704
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,480
power, right. 
Yes, and again, there's a lot of

705
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,880
smoke and mirrors around that as
well. 

706
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,160
So the 12:15 Magna Carta, the 
Great Charter is the is, is the 

707
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,000
document that's beyond the reach
of Parliament. 

708
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,600
So that's the real thing. 
And people in the in the 

709
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,640
establishment will say, well, 
that's not really law. 

710
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,840
And that's been repealed and you
know, although it hasn't because

711
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,680
that's that's the promise under 
which the king was was made. 

712
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,160
That's that's how that was made.
So yes, you're right. 

713
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,680
The further iterations, I mean 
there was one in 2000 and sixty 

714
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:28,400
2016, 12/16/12 a little bit 
further but a little bit further

715
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,800
like. 
That so they actually tried to 

716
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,240
so that they so he sealed it and
then the next year they tried to

717
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:35,800
change it. 
Yeah, well, yes. 

718
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,880
Although actually Stephen 
Langton, the Archbishop who who 

719
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,080
kind of was very involved in 
this, was actually involved in 

720
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,240
that actually. 
And in fact, yeah, 12/12/16, 

721
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,600
12:17 is another one, 1225 under
King Henry, that was, that was a

722
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,440
very important one. 
That's the one where there was 

723
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,720
a, a ceremony where they all 
like threw down their tabards or

724
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,960
swords or whatever it was. 
And they were really zealous for

725
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,080
these rites. 
They absolutely genuinely 

726
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,240
believed them. 
They absolutely believed in the 

727
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,720
content of what had happened in 
the Great Charter. 

728
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,560
And, and in fact, the, the, the,
the kings at the time, as you 

729
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,760
know, going from the Norman 
kings into the Plantagenets were

730
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,240
also keen to, to express this 
through in a sense, their 

731
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,840
manifesto. 
And so actually what was 

732
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,200
happening was a legislative 
version of the Magna Carta, 

733
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:32,120
which was really an expression 
of the King's manifesto, if you 

734
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,400
like to, to, to, to govern 
according to these principles. 

735
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,320
So the last one and the one 
that's currently on the statute 

736
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,920
books is the Confirmatio 
Cartarum of 1297, which is the 

737
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,440
Edward the First statute. 
But all of these really were 

738
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,000
just expressions of the king 
saying, yeah, I'm upholding 

739
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,480
these principles. 
You know, I, I, I agree with 

740
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,120
them. 
So that's really what it is. 

741
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,040
But it's important for people 
and the establishment certainly 

742
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,640
don't realise, realise and 
understand this, that the 

743
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,400
authority doesn't come from the 
legislation, doesn't come from 

744
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,920
the legislative versions. 
Of Magna Carta. 

745
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,480
Those are just re expressions of
those principles that you can't 

746
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,400
really repeal because they're 
just truths. 

747
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,080
The authority actually comes 
from the 12:15 because you know,

748
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,120
that was the promise under which
the the head of state promised 

749
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,400
to the people that that's how it
would all work. 

750
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,280
In perpetuity. 
In perpetuity. 

751
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,960
To the point, yeah, Yeah, 
exactly. 

752
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,320
Yeah. 
And and that itself, as we, as 

753
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,880
you established at the start, 
was actually just an expression 

754
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,320
of the immutable fundamental 
laws that exist in natural 

755
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,200
justice, in reality and the 
natural. 

756
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,920
Justice to work like that. 
It can't work any other way Yes 

757
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,360
exactly. 
Okay, well, it can, it can work 

758
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,520
other, other ways, but not 
without serious detrimental, 

759
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:54,520
destructive, you know, downward 
spiralling consequences for your

760
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,400
society. 
Yes, yeah, you absolutely can go

761
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,600
against the natural order 
principles if you want. 

762
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,200
Yeah, be my guest. 
Tell me how it works out for you

763
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,600
exactly. 
Yeah, OK, good, good. 

764
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Right. 
Let's go back to to trial by 

765
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,960
jury because we were talking 
about you, you mentioned that 

766
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,720
statistic that actually only 1% 
of trials now go to trial by 

767
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:18,040
jury and, and the, the 
introduction. 

768
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,360
Is 1% yeah, pretty. 
Much. 

769
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,160
Well, yes, if it isn't exactly 
1%, it's not enough. 

770
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,880
It's around that it's certainly 
not enough and. 

771
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,040
They're going after it, right, 
because this is one of the big 

772
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,760
areas with which they're focused
on and they're really trying to 

773
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,320
ramp up magistrates calls. 
So there's a big push to. 

774
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,800
Or another intermediate straight
in between. 

775
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,680
Yes, there's another option. 
Yeah. 

776
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,720
And that's these are all, these 
are all denials of rights. 

777
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:45,600
Essentially, you've been denied 
the fundamental. 

778
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,040
Rights, Yeah, or, or legislating
away your birthright. 

779
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,880
So the very idea that the 
government itself can legislate 

780
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:58,440
away these principles is, is 
absolutely absurd and ludicrous.

781
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,800
You know, and, and, and The 
thing is, is that that broadly 

782
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,960
speaking, certainly the the the 
mainstream part of society isn't

783
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,960
saying anything about it because
they don't understand it. 

784
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,320
But I would say actually that 
that broadly the, the awake 

785
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:15,960
communities to our, the sort of 
conspiratorial nature of our 

786
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,160
society, they're not really 
focusing on it either. 

787
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,160
And I would say that this is a 
'cause you know, in, in fact, 

788
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,920
most of the issues that that we 
are dealing with can, can be 

789
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,040
kind of solved by just getting 
your governance back in place by

790
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,040
by calling for jury independence
as a concept and calling them 

791
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,600
out under this and saying 
actually, you don't understand 

792
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,280
how the rule of law is supposed 
to operate. 

793
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,440
So you're right, we've had the 
Leveson review, which is is 

794
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,400
perhaps we're getting close to 
that conclusion. 

795
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,880
And in fact, I put up on my 
website, 

796
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,840
commonlawconstitution.org the 
other day, I think it was a 

797
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,720
Telegraph article that was 
hinting at the fact that that 

798
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:04,400
the media are aware of the 
contents of that review and the 

799
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,200
conclusions that that Sir Brian 
Leveson has come to in that and 

800
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,080
and together. 
Now the investigatory powers 

801
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,560
commissioner, I think, isn't he?
I can't remember the exact 

802
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,000
title. 
Yeah, very powerful man. 

803
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,720
Extraordinarily powerful and 
influential. 

804
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,640
Yeah, absolutely. 
OK. 

805
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,440
So there's there are things 
emanating from the conclusions 

806
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:27,920
are there? 
I think so. 

807
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,760
I think beginning to come out, 
we've been needing to, you know,

808
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,680
see, see possible hints and 
clues as to what might be 

809
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,040
happening. 
And what are the and what are 

810
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,800
the suggestions? 
Well, as you said, we'll have to

811
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,280
provide a link to this if we go 
and have a look. 

812
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,160
At that, yeah, I'll take it out.
I'll have a look and yeah, it's 

813
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,560
a couple of weeks ago I think it
was an article in the Telegraph,

814
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,520
OK. 
But yeah, it's, it's, it's the 

815
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,320
potential threat of further 
limiting a trial by jury, right?

816
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,800
And, and, and we're already in a
bad place with it, you know, 

817
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,040
and, and, but what I'm seeing is
not enough people jumping up and

818
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,120
down about this causal factor, 
you know, and, and they're being

819
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,080
distracted by, you know, yes, 
important things and other 

820
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,080
things, understandably. 
But actually, if you get 

821
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,400
distracted by the effects at the
expense of dealing with your 

822
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,120
governance, self governance of 
the nation and that concept, 

823
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,800
then then in a sense, through 
inattention and inaction, you're

824
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,960
actually take you're further 
taking yourself down. 

825
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,640
You know, every day, every hour 
that goes by that you're not 

826
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,480
talking about these issues that 
we're talking about now, partly 

827
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,960
to re educate yourself so that 
you become clearer on it as 

828
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,440
well. 
Every every hour and day and 

829
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,200
week that goes by that we're not
talking about this, you're 

830
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,080
actually contributing to that, 
that that destruction that is 

831
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,720
self destructive. 
I would say I. 

832
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,360
Would agree. 
Yes, I mean this because it is 

833
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,840
the clues in the name, it's 
constitutional. 

834
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,640
It's it's the constitution, the 
makeup of the society that that 

835
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,800
we are in and how. 
We should be absolutely 

836
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:55,120
passionate about this. 
Yeah. 

837
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Absolutely, absolutely. 
And they were back in the day, 

838
00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,040
you know, as I've said to you on
an, on a discussion we had 

839
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,320
before, you know, how the, the, 
the, the, the community in the, 

840
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,240
you know, Norman times were 
absolutely zealous for their 

841
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,320
rights. 
That was the word that, yeah, 

842
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,600
often comes out in writings that
you see that written zealous. 

843
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,440
I wrote Zealous down. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

844
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,520
Well, we're not now. 
No, no. 

845
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,960
People are totally apathetic 
and, and people don't feel like 

846
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,120
they have any kind of capacity 
to do anything really. 

847
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,080
It's quite odd, you know. 
Well, we've let things go so far

848
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,760
that it's now become very 
complicated to know what is best

849
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,720
to do. 
Yeah, and it's understandable 

850
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:36,640
and I get that. 
But the first thing you've got 

851
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,280
to do is educate yourself on 
this stuff. 

852
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,040
Become clear on where do your 
rights come from? 

853
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,480
What are the limits of 
government actually and why and 

854
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,240
where do they think they get 
their power from or don't or 

855
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:49,240
purport to get their power from 
and their right. 

856
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:53,960
This is all to do with 
jurisprudence and, and some the 

857
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,200
philosophy of law and and and 
and. 

858
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,440
It's important to get into it 
and to understand it. 

859
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,840
Well, well, well, let's let's 
begin to that then. 

860
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,280
So where, where do they think 
they get their, their rights 

861
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:06,640
from? 
Is it, is it just through the 

862
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,120
compliance of people going along
with the proclamations that 

863
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,080
these people are making? 
Is that where they get their 

864
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,680
power? 
Well, that they they give 

865
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,760
themselves that power through 
that false belief. 

866
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,320
Yes. 
That they think that they, they 

867
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,080
have the right to do it because 
they are doing good for society,

868
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,080
right? 
So it's, it's these phrases like

869
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,920
for the greater good, right? 
So we're starting to get into, 

870
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,360
you know, what we were talking 
about sort of communitarianism 

871
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,440
and this, this idea that, that 
this collectivist impulse that 

872
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,800
I, I'm going to decide what's 
best for you, whether you like 

873
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,720
it or not. 
That's the expression, that's 

874
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:46,280
the impulse behind it. 
And I have the right to do that 

875
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:52,000
because my ideas and my my grand
ideas for how society needs to 

876
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,880
be fixed gives me the right to 
just go ahead and do it. 

877
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,720
Yeah, because that's the 
collective. 

878
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,080
Because I'm kinder and more 
empathetic than you. 

879
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:03,080
That's basically there's a. 
Gas light there isn't. 

880
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,800
That it's a gas light. 
There's a total lack of self 

881
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,160
awareness with a lot of people 
as well, yeah. 

882
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,800
And an enormous amount of 
arrogance you find with the sort

883
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,440
of collectivist viewpoint that 
because they supposedly want the

884
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,920
best for everybody, then that 
gives them the right to impose 

885
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,120
their will. 
And actually that's not not the 

886
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,240
case at all. 
You know who's going to protect 

887
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,600
us from you? 
Yeah, yeah. 

888
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,080
And we and we need to, I mean, 
the, the sort of the sort of 

889
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,520
line that you want to watch out 
for this is kind of like a like 

890
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,000
a red flag in, in, in people's 
conversation when you see when 

891
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,320
people say we need to do this 
right. 

892
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,800
We need to if, if you hear 
sentences like that, yeah, 

893
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,520
that's a, that's a danger point 
because that's a collectivist 

894
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,440
impulse, right? 
Oh, we need to do this right. 

895
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,360
Who are you including in the we 
there? 

896
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,800
Yeah, That's not individualist. 
That's, that's not a philosophy 

897
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,040
of minding your own business and
leaving people to their own 

898
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,080
choices. 
Yeah. 

899
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,280
And there are two, two caveats 
to that, by the way, Minding 

900
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,880
your own business. 
It's we must call out wrongdoing

901
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:06,920
where we see it. 
Yes. 

902
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,880
And, and also we at a spiritual 
level at least, yes, there is 

903
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,000
the matter of charity, you know,
which is that we don't want to 

904
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,960
formulate a selfish society 
here. 

905
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,400
But on the other hand, nor can 
you force somebody to be kind 

906
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,160
through legislation. 
It's not kindness. 

907
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,120
It's not kindness at that point.
Yes, exactly. 

908
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,320
You know, we're sort of kidding 
ourselves that we live in a 

909
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,480
civilised society because we're 
really kind to, to the less 

910
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,960
fortunate, you know, Well, 
actually, you're not kind. 

911
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,840
It's just that someone will kick
down your door if if you don't 

912
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,640
pay those taxes that are being 
forced out of you through 

913
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:41,800
coercion. 
Well, exactly. 

914
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,720
It's one all all under threat of
violence. 

915
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,120
Anything that's just a lie is 
under is under threat of 

916
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,600
violence ultimately. 
Yeah. 

917
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,440
So it's interesting you there 
you talking to? 

918
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,800
Well, individual, we're 
individuals. 

919
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,040
Leave me to my business and we 
we're back to this idea of 

920
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,640
freedom versus equity. 
We're not versus freedom and 

921
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,800
equity come together in, in, in 
a, in a in integrated symbiotic 

922
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,520
relationship with each other, 
right, Because again, it's, it's

923
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,760
we're free, but your freedoms 
end where mine begin totally 

924
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,240
right, right. 
And and actually. 

925
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,800
This is of natural. 
Law and a lot of the, a lot of 

926
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,320
the kind of communitarian 
people, they, they look around 

927
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,320
and I have to, you have to agree
with them, right? 

928
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:30,800
The world is extraordinarily 
unjust and and unequal and it's 

929
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,040
becoming more so. 
But because there are too many 

930
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,800
people who are exercising too 
much freedom to the detriment of

931
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,440
everybody else, what they're 
ignoring is the other side of 

932
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,840
that equation ultimately, which 
is that we are all equal under 

933
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,560
the under the law. 
And it's not their job to fix 

934
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,680
it, right? 
OK. 

935
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,000
Would you say expand on that? 
Well, again, that's the impulse 

936
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,280
of the collectivist. 
It's not your job to fix 

937
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,920
everybody else's problems, 
Right? 

938
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,400
We have, because that's not the 
expression of self governance. 

939
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,600
Yeah, self, self. 
You only learn to be self 

940
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,800
governing and to be a self 
master if you learn to fix your 

941
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,200
own problems and, and and you, 
you learn to take responsibility

942
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,760
for your own choices because 
it's at that point that you've 

943
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,680
become trustworthy as a human 
being. 

944
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:18,920
Yeah, yeah. 
If you're meddling around in 

945
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,000
other people's affairs, you're 
fundamentally untrustworthy. 

946
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,880
Right. 
So this is the stuff that we all

947
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:29,680
need to explore. 
Very interesting because these 

948
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:34,120
collectivist ideas, they are, 
they are particularly coalescing

949
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,840
around the people who were 
talking about first rewrite, 

950
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,320
literally rewriting the 
Constitution, right? 

951
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,880
So you've got Gordon Brown at 
the moment, was actually never 

952
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,960
elected as Prime Minister. 
He was an MP, He lost the 

953
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,160
general election. 
David Cameron he didn't. 

954
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,880
Actually win a. 
He didn't win a general election

955
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,400
and he's now on the the trustee 
board of the Rockefeller 

956
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,080
Foundation. 
And he's leading this big 

957
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,400
programme to rewrite the British
constitution, change the 

958
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,400
structure of the upper house 
like, oh, literally, which is 

959
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,240
their dream. 
That's what they want to do. 

960
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:11,040
They want to remove these 
principles of of national 

961
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,880
sovereignty and 
constitutionalism. 

962
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,360
Yes, that's what they want to 
get rid of. 

963
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,880
That's what they are terrified 
of more than anything is the 

964
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:23,080
principles of individual rights,
national constitutionalism. 

965
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,560
That's what they're wanting to 
remove more than anything. 

966
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,880
Which is which is our defence 
against tyranny? 

967
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,320
Yes, right it. 
Always was and it and it 

968
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,640
embodies and frames those 
fundamental principles of the 

969
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,800
natural order. 
Yeah, because because otherwise 

970
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,920
you're in, you're into a world 
which is, you know what we were 

971
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,360
talking about earlier, this sort
of Liberal Democratic world 

972
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,120
where we can do anything we want
if enough people go along with 

973
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,120
it. 
Yes, Right. 

974
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,720
And, and, and that would just 
wreak absolute havoc with the 

975
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:52,240
people who don't want to go 
along with it. 

976
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,560
Yeah. 
Because actually you might be 

977
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,600
incorrect or it doesn't meet up 
with my my my values. 

978
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,960
Unintended consequences. 
Exactly. 

979
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,120
Yeah. 
And those people will, they're 

980
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,640
coalescing around this 
collectivist worldview. 

981
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,760
They want to completely 
transform, basically scrap and 

982
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,800
rewrite the the Constitution. 
Rewiring the the the the kind of

983
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,720
framework of our the way we, the
way we live. 

984
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:16,840
I think you used was a phrase. 
Maybe, I can't remember. 

985
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,560
No, they are, they're rewiring 
it and they're going off. 

986
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,360
They're going off the child by 
jury. 

987
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,400
They, they want to dial up the 
magistrates. 

988
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,680
They're also really pushing on 
what they call diverse diversity

989
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,400
in the magistrates courts, which
does throw in, begin to throw 

990
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,760
into question this idea of being
judged by peers because actually

991
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,440
peers means fellow citizens, 
right? 

992
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,680
But if you've got people who 
are. 

993
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,960
Yeah, that would be their 
argument that the Magistrates 

994
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,280
Court, that would be their 
argument for justifying the 

995
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,720
Magistrates Court, is that the 
magistrates are our peers, yes. 

996
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,480
But if you've got people who are
sitting in the magistrate's 

997
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,960
chair who are from completely 
different cultures, then you're 

998
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,480
not being judged by your peers, 
yeah. 

999
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,120
And they're kind of 
professionalised because 

1000
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,760
they're, they're used, they're 
not paid, which is quite 

1001
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,240
important to make that, that 
point. 

1002
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:11,400
Yeah. 
And, and also actually it's, 

1003
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,320
it's important to understand in 
the Magistrates Court as well, 

1004
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,040
is that it's not just 
magistrates. 

1005
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,040
So quite often they'll swap out 
a magistrate for a, for a, a 

1006
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,440
judge. 
Yeah, who is state paid and you 

1007
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,760
know, so it's not our jury. 
It's not. 

1008
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,240
It's not a jury. 
And it absolutely is not that 

1009
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:30,880
our jury. 
And what they're really pushing 

1010
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,000
towards is to run all this stuff
algorithmically using AI. 

1011
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,840
Yes, that's what the end point, 
because they don't want to 

1012
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,440
basically it's all about 
efficiency. 

1013
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:40,600
They don't want to pay for 
anything. 

1014
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:41,480
Yeah, right. 
Yeah. 

1015
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,440
So you, you, you'll get, you'll 
get something that we call 

1016
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,160
justice. 
But actually it's not justice. 

1017
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,720
It's the lowest possible level 
completely of algorithmically 

1018
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:57,760
applied legislation compliance 
with arbitrary legislation that 

1019
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,040
you can possibly. 
And that justification of that, 

1020
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:04,880
of course, is that we've got 
70,000 case case backlog. 

1021
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,920
Yeah, in the Crown Court. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1022
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,040
Which I would argue has been 
created through a perfect storm 

1023
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,680
of underfunding of the justice 
system. 

1024
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:13,840
Yeah, but they've done it 
deliberately. 

1025
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:16,880
Creative destruction. 
Creative destruction is what 

1026
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,200
they call. 
It yeah, I mean, I I put a 

1027
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:18,640
video. 
Out. 

1028
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,040
Oh, no, it's all broken. 
We've got to fix it. 

1029
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,120
Yeah, but you broke. 
We. 

1030
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,240
We will ignore the fact that we 
broke it. 

1031
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,840
Exactly. 
Yeah, and, and, and, and those 

1032
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,280
in the justice system actually 
are frustrated by that too. 

1033
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,480
You know, I mean, the lawyers 
know this, the, the judges know 

1034
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:32,880
that. 
I mean, you've got a problem 

1035
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,120
with the, the physical state of 
courts as well. 

1036
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,320
I mean, lawyers know this, that 
when they go into court, you 

1037
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,520
know, there are kind of bowls 
out to catch the drips from the 

1038
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,040
ceiling. 
This kind of stuff is going on. 

1039
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,320
You've got a, you've got chaos 
from the, you know, the, the, 

1040
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,840
what is it called the, the 
prisoner escort system, which is

1041
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,320
the, the, the system for 
bringing prisoners to the court 

1042
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:52,760
system. 
And then quite often you get 

1043
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,680
cases being, you know, because, 
because they didn't turn up, the

1044
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,720
prisoner wasn't well, you know, 
so that you've got a delay. 

1045
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,080
OK, so you've got these massive 
inefficiencies going on and 

1046
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,840
those in the justice system are 
massively frustrated by that 

1047
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,120
too, but they're not seeing that
problem. 

1048
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,960
And, and, and, and if you go 
back further than that, of 

1049
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,840
course, why have we got this 
massive case backlog? 

1050
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:17,880
It's because you've gone and 
created a legislative landscape 

1051
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:23,640
through complexity that is so 
huge that you this is that's the

1052
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,160
why it exists in the first 
place. 

1053
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:30,520
Exactly, exactly. 
OK, fascinating. 

1054
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:36,360
Let's just finish up with, I 
want to show you this, which is,

1055
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,240
and I'll hold this up to the 
camera and we'll put it up on 

1056
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:42,360
screen as well as we're talking 
through it. 

1057
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,080
But this is from Makespace 
Oxford. 

1058
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,040
So yes, you did a segment on 
this. 

1059
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,160
Yeah, I did a. 
Segment on this on the news, 

1060
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:50,920
right? 
Because basically what they did 

1061
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,720
and people need to understand 
that the the British government 

1062
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,320
is actually right now building a
parallel system that is based on

1063
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,640
a completely different 
constitution and they have 

1064
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,840
opened it up. 
They call it the dark matter, 

1065
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,680
right? 
So it's all this stuff down 

1066
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,240
here. 
So they call these problems root

1067
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:18,360
problems include things like 
private ownership. 

1068
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,760
That's a root problem 
apparently. 

1069
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,920
And this idea of of separation 
of basically is individualism. 

1070
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,000
Individualism. 
That that which that is a 

1071
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,960
problem. 
They're saying that, yeah, yeah.

1072
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,760
And, and what you're saying and 
should be individuals. 

1073
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,600
And what our Constitution says 
is that we are and have to be 

1074
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,080
individuals. 
We have to be individuals, not 

1075
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,280
in, in, in, in a selfish, 
selfish expression. 

1076
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:44,440
Yeah. 
But as individuals, we come to 

1077
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,960
understand that, that, that we 
have to manage ourselves 

1078
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,040
responsibly so as not to tread 
on other people. 

1079
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,880
Yes. 
So it's it's fundamentally not 

1080
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:53,880
selfish. 
Yeah. 

1081
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:59,240
And when we want to engage with 
others, we do so as, as, yeah, 

1082
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,360
under, under, under, you know, 
our voluntary action, you know, 

1083
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,480
we want to come together as a 
group of other people with other

1084
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,560
individuals because we wish to 
do that. 

1085
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,440
Not because, not because we're 
told we have to or not because 

1086
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,480
we're put in a category or 
because we're, you know, it's 

1087
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:18,480
all based on, on the, the 
volunteerism. 

1088
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,160
That's what it's all about. 
So, yeah, I mean, freedom of 

1089
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:22,880
expression is probably going to 
be another one there. 

1090
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,760
You know, freedom of ideas, 
freedom, you know, all of this, 

1091
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,760
all of the things that are 
expressions of individualism are

1092
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:31,920
probably under the root problems
there. 

1093
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,720
Yes, they are. 
And private ownership, private 

1094
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:42,640
ownership and they talk about 
this imperialist mindset and 

1095
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,720
extractivist mindset. 
And I'm certainly not 

1096
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,320
extractivist and I'm certainly 
not an imperialist. 

1097
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,760
I'm not entirely sure what they 
mean by that, but I think it's 

1098
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,920
basically western society, 
western civilization. 

1099
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,360
Evils of. 
Western society has been 

1100
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,840
presented as as as universally 
evil, but actually a lot of the 

1101
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:03,840
bad stuff that's happened, and 
there are plenty of bad things 

1102
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,880
that our societies have done 
both at home and abroad over 

1103
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,280
centuries. 
The vast majority of that is 

1104
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,760
being driven by the people who 
are deliberately trying to 

1105
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,880
degrade our constitutional 
rights completely. 

1106
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,600
Yeah. 
So actually, the things that are

1107
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,920
being identified, the things 
that are potentially I could 

1108
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,920
understand as being legitimate 
problems have actually been, 

1109
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,840
have been, have been, have been 
put there by the people who are 

1110
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,800
trying to, to, to do the things 
that we've just been talking 

1111
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,960
about, quite frankly. 
And then also one thing that I 

1112
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,280
think is really crucial for 
people who who might veer 

1113
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,240
towards the kind of collectivist
worldview to, to appreciate is 

1114
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,640
that the collective is made up 
of individuals. 

1115
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,440
Yes, right. 
And that's what collectivism 

1116
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,680
misses out when people talk 
about how well you want to think

1117
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,440
about the collective. 
I should clarify that. 

1118
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,120
But it's made the collective. 
The base unit of the collective 

1119
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,560
is the. 
Individual who are there 

1120
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,880
voluntarily, yes, that's the 
key, yes. 

1121
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,800
Yes. 
Collectivism is is where you 

1122
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,600
are. 
You're, you're, you're seen or 

1123
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,480
identified as a group and 
whether you like it or not, and 

1124
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,880
you're given given rights or, 
or, or have rights taken away on

1125
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,280
the basis of an identity. 
So we get into group identity. 

1126
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,960
We get into, you know, Jordan 
Peterson talks about group 

1127
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,920
identity. 
That's a modernist concept, 

1128
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,080
postmodern concept, really. 
So that's where we're getting 

1129
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,080
into. 
So that that's people need to be

1130
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,280
really clear on what 
individualism and collectivism 

1131
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,520
really is. 
And I actually, I did a series 

1132
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,400
on that of little short videos 
of only about 15 minutes each on

1133
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,840
the law and alchemy.org YouTube 
channel where I take people 

1134
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,000
through those steps of 
understanding the difference 

1135
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,920
between individualism and 
collectivism and why 

1136
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,360
collectivism is important to 
reject individualism is 

1137
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,440
important to embrace. 
And how those, those, those 

1138
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,240
those two different ideologies 
can be distorted. 

1139
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,000
The meaning can be distorted as 
well. 

1140
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,920
And and individualism often 
people. 

1141
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,160
Wrongly say, oh, that's just a 
selfish ideology. 

1142
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,720
But as we've said, it isn't 
because, you know, individuals, 

1143
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,000
it's about, it's not about not 
forming collectives. 

1144
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,760
It's about doing that as 
individuals voluntarily. 

1145
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:20,760
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 
OK, fascinating. 

1146
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:26,960
So look, just just to wrap up, 
what what can we do to help re 

1147
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:35,880
establish these immutable, 
inalienable right principles in 

1148
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:41,160
our daily lives around us now? 
We we need to be creating a lot 

1149
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,760
of buzz and activity about these
subjects. 

1150
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:45,720
It's really educational to start
with. 

1151
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:46,920
Yeah. 
And a lot of people will go, oh,

1152
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,600
well, we haven't got time for 
that kind of stuff. 

1153
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,960
I I don't care. 
You don't have, you don't have a

1154
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:52,040
choice. 
Yeah. 

1155
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,800
The universe will not give you 
that choice, I'm afraid. 

1156
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,680
OK. 
Because actually, if you don't 

1157
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,400
deal with this at the root 
cause, you have to educate 

1158
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:05,120
yourself and become absolutely 
clear on natural law, objective 

1159
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,880
morality, understanding through 
logic and reason, the difference

1160
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,680
between those two ideologies, 
individualism and collectivism, 

1161
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,600
and how that community that is 
not based on the principles that

1162
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:17,880
are baked into the natural 
order. 

1163
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,560
You're going to take your 
society down that way and it 

1164
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,080
will keep going down until you 
learn it. 

1165
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,600
It's, it's simple as that. 
So it's education, It's 

1166
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,720
educating others when you've got
clear on it in the social media 

1167
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:34,240
space, causing people to to 
question those ideas, to reflect

1168
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,720
on those ideas, putting awkward 
and difficult questions before 

1169
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:42,440
them that cause them to reflect 
on these kind of incorrect 

1170
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,440
belief systems that have come 
about. 

1171
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:46,840
We're going to have to do that 
it it probably wouldn't take as 

1172
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:51,120
long as we think it would if 
huge numbers started to do this 

1173
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,960
and we created that that buzz 
and that activity in the social 

1174
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,640
media space. 
But yeah, we've got to do it. 

1175
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,760
We've got to become familiar. 
With this, OK, there's a job for

1176
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,760
us to do there and we'll share 
some, some some useful links 

1177
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,080
around all of these topics from 
Will and others so that you can 

1178
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,840
educate yourself and then begin 
to educate others and we can all

1179
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,560
start to get active in this 
area. 

1180
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,600
Very, very important. 
I think the, the trial by jury 

1181
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,280
piece in particular really lands
with people who are maybe a 

1182
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,720
little bit less less engaged 
with some of the other topics 

1183
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,240
that we talk about. 
People actually do understand 

1184
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:30,760
that the trial by jury is 
actually really important. 

1185
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,440
So I think that that's a. 
And you're not sounding lunatic 

1186
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,000
as well when you're doing it 
because actually what we're 

1187
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,040
talking about is the 
constitutional rule of law. 

1188
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,920
So even with mainstreamers, you 
can actually be quite tempered 

1189
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,760
and sensible sounding when you 
bring these subjects up. 

1190
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,320
And that's a benefit, you know, 
so that that's a reason to, to 

1191
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,520
talk about it with, with, you 
know, people who aren't awake in

1192
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,560
the conspiratorial sense. 
You can talk about this, this 

1193
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,080
stuff, you know, without 
sounding completely lunatic. 

1194
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:01,440
Good. 
Hopefully so. 

1195
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,840
OK, fantastic. 
Will Keats, it's been a 

1196
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,080
pleasure. 
UK column, you're all fantastic.

1197
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,400
I hope you enjoyed that. 
Thanks for coming in. 

1198
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,080
It's been great. 
Good to have you in the studio 

1199
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,600
and until next time, thank you 
for watching.