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None. 
My name is Germ. 

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This is Germ warfare, the battle
of ideas, Todd Hay. 

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And thank you for joining me in 
the trenches. 

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Thank you for having me, Germ. 
It's it's been a while since you

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and I talked, so I'm very 
excited about today. 

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I think over a year. 
Yeah, it's, you know, it's time 

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when you get old time. 
Like a year is like 5 minutes, 

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that's what. 
It was I, I. 

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Yeah. 
You wouldn't know. 

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No, not yet. 
You got a little while to go. 

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Yeah. 
In fact, the ancient Egyptians 

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thought that time was relative. 
There wasn't. 

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There wasn't. 
You know, some things actually 

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took longer than other things. 
It was like that's how they 

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perceive time, which is really 
the truth as far as empirical 

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experiences. 
It's like there are things that 

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take seem to take longer, but we
have the clock that tells us 

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it's the same. 
Yeah, but to hell with clocks. 

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Technology back. 
When you and I started chatting 

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a few years ago, it was I think 
in the height of the the COVID 

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event and. 
Yes, it's all. 

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Quote unquote over now, but 
yeah, I'm guessing. 

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Part of it is, yeah, yeah. 
Well, I mean that part, the, 

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the, the, the whole 
psychological operation, you 

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know, that people were told 
about some sort of biological 

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event, that part. 
Right. 

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It's over, but but COVID, the 
word is, it's kind of like a, 

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it's like a catch phrase now for
something much bigger, isn't it?

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I think so, yeah. 
Yeah. 

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I mean, I know exactly what 
you're what you're saying there.

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There's a danger, you know, it's
the law before the storm. 

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There's this, there's this 
feeling that that it's not a 

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feeling because it's it's 
evidential, but it's it's gone 

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down below a certain level. 
You know, when it raised above 

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this level, it was like 
everybody wearing masks, 

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everybody getting a shot and, 
you know, constant news about 

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the number of people that have 
died and whenever that 

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definitely has gone down below, 
below the noise level. 

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But everything that stands 
behind what happened is still 

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there and is and is still very 
dynamic and very strong. 

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But the public doesn't see that.
The public didn't even see it 

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when it was actually happening. 
They didn't see it for what it 

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was. 
They, they, you know, they just 

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took it point blank as to what, 
what the authority was telling 

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them it was. 
And obviously that's what we all

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talk about. 
But I think it's dangerous to 

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believe. 
And, you know, my sub stack 

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really focuses on don't don't 
forget about this. 

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This is still happening. 
And, you know, it's, it's taking

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the form now of, of, you know, 
the CBDC's and the, the digital 

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IDs and even even that's kind of
lowered a little bit with its 

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intensity of being pushed. 
But I think the primary thing we

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see it in now is the Middle East
and the, the evil Trump who is 

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trying to destroy the world. 
They, they, they, they get, it's

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a distraction because they, they
don't really see what is trying 

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to destroy the world. 
But anyway, that's. 

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You're you're Canadian, So what 
are your thoughts both? 

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What are your thoughts on Canada
becoming a province of the US? 

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You know, I, I, I, I don't know,
I think, I think in, I think in 

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theory or hypothetically, it 
already is. 

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And I think a lot of that is 
typical Trump blather and, and 

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it has a purpose behind it. 
And the purpose behind it is 

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working. 
It's, it's creating a 

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nationalistic fervour in Canada.
All of a sudden Canada is 

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independent and elbows up and 
all this junk that's going on 

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here. 
I mean, it's, it's actually 

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quite terrifying. 
And I think that was his 

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intention, Believe it or not, I,
I don't think Trump's intention 

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was to make Canada stronger, but
to, to create this fervour, a 

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nationalistic fervour, which 
which essentially got Carney 

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voted in. 
And I think that I think that is

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advantageous to Trump. 
I, I don't know why. 

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I mean, I, I can guess, you 
know, I think, I think other 

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people more well informed and, 
and studying all, all of this 

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stuff would, would, would give a
better answer than I would as to

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why. 
But, but you know, Trump says it

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himself, he, he would rather 
have the Liberal Party in place.

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And I think it's because he 
knows he can manipulate that 

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easier. 
And so, so that's what the whole

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51st state thing, I think the 
intention, just like the Gaza 

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thing, you know, turning that 
into, into Trump Wonderland. 

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It it's, you know, it's, it's 
weird And it there, there isn't,

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there is an intention behind it,
But I don't, I don't think it's 

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what people think. 
I don't think it's what is on 

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the surface, you know, if that 
answers your question, I don't 

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know. 
Canada's a weird place right 

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now. 
It kind of reinforces the whole 

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idea that it's just all theatre.
It is all theatre, absolutely 

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always has been. 
I think it's different theatre 

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now. 
I think it's, I mean, you know, 

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like with Trump getting pissed 
off the other day and dropping 

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the F word and all that. 
I mean, that's all theatre and, 

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and it always has been theatre. 
But I think it's been more 

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deceiving theatre. 
I think it's been more like, 

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like, you know, the goody 2 
shoes president who never would 

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curse and is not a bully and 
whatever to to the public, you 

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know, like Obama, good example 
of that Obama like presented 

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this charismatic really 
together, you know, loving, 

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caring person. 
And then he's bombing the shit 

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out of Syria and and whatever, 
you know, Yeah, and and now it's

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it's more surface and and the 
the tactics that are played are 

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are still theatre, but I think 
they're easy to figure out 

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actually, if if you think about 
them, you know, if if you're a 

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critical thinker, I think it's 
easier to look at what Trump is 

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doing, for example, and like, 
get it, you know, to go, OK, 

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this is this is what he's doing.
This is the theatre he's 

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presenting here now. 
I think it was harder before 

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when it's deceiving, when it's 
deceptive, it's it's harder to 

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see it because you got to dig a 
little deeper. 

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Trump is obvious. 
I, I think it's really obvious. 

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And the people that think he's 
literal hating, look at what 

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he's doing now, you know, and 
you're like, oh, well, it's not 

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really what he's doing. 
It's what he's saying, but he's 

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not really doing it. 
You know, I don't know, I'm not 

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a big Trump fan. 
I, I, I, I mean, I, I'm watching

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carefully. 
I'm not any fan. 

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I'm not. 
I've never been a fan of a 

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president and. 
But I think that's the right 

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position to to to hold. 
Yeah, it feels that way. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, just, I mean, it's a big 

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game. 
I don't know anything about it. 

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I I don't personally know how to
manage the world and what those 

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decisions that are made. 
There's a whole bunch of 

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different levels. 
You can look at it. 

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I mean, you can look at it at 
the at the, the consensus level,

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you know, there's a war going 
on. 

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Israel is being, is being 
threatened by the Muslim world 

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or whatever. 
And you know, they, they have 

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the right to, to blah, blah, 
blah. 

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You can look at it that, that, 
that level of which most people 

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do, or you can look at it at a 
deeper level that, that they're 

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all theatre, They're all 
manipulating one another for 

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different reasons and different 
goals. 

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And it isn't the ones that we're
told it isn't about religious 

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freedom, for instance, it's it's
not about that. 

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And you watch the agenda and 
obviously you, you can see a 

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more truthful presentation of 
what it is about, you know, and 

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I don't even think it's about 
that. 

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I mean, you know, I, I once in a
while, like when I'm laying 

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awake at night, I start thinking
about things like the devil or 

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lizard man or anything. 
I mean, you know, you'd like go,

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well, that makes that actually 
makes more sense. 

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You know, more questions are 
answered If if, if it's actually

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Satan sitting somewhere on a 
throne with his horns and 

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saying, OK, then we're going to 
destroy the human race and this 

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is how I'm going to do it. 
And or, or alien lizard people 

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or whatever. 
It it makes more sense. 

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It it like, you know, but then I
wake up and I go, I don't think 

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so. 
I'd love to talk to, to, yeah, 

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love to talk to you about this 
because I, I know you have, you 

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have the same kind of open mind 
that I do. 

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It's like, well, maybe so, you 
know, maybe the Earth is flat, 

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maybe there are no viruses, you 
know, and what, whatever it's 

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it's like, OK, state your case. 
Let me let me hear it and think 

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about it. 
I mean, I know, I know we've 

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talked about that before. 
And I mean, you and I are 

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similar. 
Yeah. 

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To to be. 
Fair. 

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If I fly in an aeroplane and I 
often do this and I look out the

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window, the horizon does look 
completely flat, right, But but 

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then, but then the counter 
argument is, well, you're not 

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high enough. 
All right, fine, I get it, but 

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it doesn't flat. 
Or does David Icke have a point?

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You know that everything is a 
simulation and and reptiles, I 

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mean King Charles, look at look 
at him. 

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He does look a bit cold blooded.
It does well, you know, if, if 

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you've ever entertained the, the
thought, which, which is a, a 

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very viable presentation that 
consciousness creates material 

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reality and that, you know, the 
quantum physics that I mean, all

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these, all these like very, 
very, very well educated and 

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thoughtful people have come up 
with these like the multiple 

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universe concept, the infinite 
number of universe, the infinite

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number of realities that 
consciousness actually forms. 

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I mean, if, if you've, if you've
entertained that at all, then 

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anything, anything's possible, 
you know, anything is because 

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if, if our consciousness can 
create material reality, then 

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we're creating lizards and we're
creating a Flat Earth. 

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And I've always said this back 
at a time where everybody 

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believed that the earth was 
flat. 

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It was, you know, it's like if, 
if everyone believes it's flat, 

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then it is flat. 
And if the majority of people 

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believe it's round, to those 
people it is round, like like 

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literally manifested round. 
The people that believe that 

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it's flat, they can prove it is 
because it is in that multiple 

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universe, in that reality. 
So if if you entertain this 

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thought at all, I mean anything 
goes. 

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That's a very interesting way of
looking at things, Todd, because

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what what it implies is that 
storytelling narratives actually

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matter more than facts. 
Because absolutely. 

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The history of the history of 
humanity is storytelling, yeah. 

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Everything's storytelling human,
human beings operate completely 

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in a, in a storytelling and, and
an individual storytelling. 

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You know, you look at animals, 
they also have stories, but 

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they're more instinctive. 
They're more historical stories.

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You know, they're more about 
instincts, genetics, whatever. 

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They have their own personal 
story. 

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Of course, if you have dogs at 
all and you have, or cats or 

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anything, well, cats, I don't 
know, but dogs, if you have 

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dogs, it's very, very clear they
have different distinct 

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personalities. 
They, they make their own 

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personal stories, but they don't
live by them the same way humans

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do. 
I mean, and their stories are 

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probably not as complex as, as 
the fabrication of the story we 

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make. 
So every, everything we do is 

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based on story. 
Some of it's consensual, 

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obviously, some of it is 
personal. 

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And if you work in psychotherapy
like I do, it's it's amazing the

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personal stories people make 
that don't correspond with 

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material reality, whatever that 
is. 

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So. 
I do take a slight exception 

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though to what you're saying 
because it does sound a bit woo 

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woo postmodern and and I'm not a
big fan of postmodernism where 

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reality is relative. 
I mean, surely there is an 

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object of reality? 
Well, you can believe that 

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that's a subjective view. 
Well, not, no, I, I wouldn't say

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it like, I mean, you, you get 
twisted up in a paradox with, 

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with this kind of thinking, 
because I could say that I could

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say, oh, well, that's your 
subjective thought about 

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reality. 
So it may not be true, but, but 

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I, I don't think it really works
that way. 

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I, I think there is an objective
material reality, but I think 

222
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,160
it's flexible, which what is 
that objective then? 

223
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,240
No, I, and you know, this is, 
this is where you really get 

224
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,520
into the twist with it. 
And I can't even talk about this

225
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,200
because I, I don't grok it 
myself. 

226
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,920
I mean, it's, it's too weird. 
Is, is that the reality, the 

227
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,560
material reality that my 
consciousness makes is different

228
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,440
than the one yours makes, But 
they, they overlap. 

229
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,440
OK. 
It doesn't mean it's 

230
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,880
solipsistic. 
And this, this is where you run 

231
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,520
into the problem. 
It's, it's not saying that I am 

232
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,440
the only conscious being on 
Earth and I create everything, 

233
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,960
which is a solipsistic idea, but
it's saying that everybody has 

234
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:23,680
and that's why I can't explain 
it. 

235
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:29,480
Everybody has access to creating
the material reality, but 

236
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,640
they're, they're all separate. 
But they're not, they're all, 

237
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,320
they're all one. 
It's, it's impossible to explain

238
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:37,960
this. 
Maybe somebody out there 

239
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,600
listening can explain it, or 
maybe there's a book that 

240
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,480
explains it. 
I can't explain it. 

241
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,160
I've always tried to. 
The closest I get is the one 

242
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,960
electron theory. 
I, I don't know, I think we may,

243
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,080
we've talked about this once. 
We've talked about so many 

244
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,880
strange things, but the one 
electron theory says that 

245
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,200
there's only one material 
particle and it's the size of an

246
00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,000
electron, which which isn't 
really a material particle, but 

247
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000
anyway, let's us call it that, 
that it's one material particle 

248
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,520
that sends in quantum theory. 
That particle can be anywhere 

249
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,160
and everywhere at the same time.
That that the to get from here 

250
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,640
to here takes no time. 
It's like 0 time. 

251
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,000
So therefore it can from a 
material perspective, not from a

252
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,120
spiritual one, but from a 
material perspective, That 

253
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,160
particle can paint the entire 
universe, the material part of 

254
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,800
the universe, all at once. 
Because there's no time. 

255
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,320
There's a quantum leap and, and 
therefore that one particle 

256
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,120
creates everything that you and 
I are looking at. 

257
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:45,120
You, me, everybody else, 
everything it, one particle 

258
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,880
creates it. 
So that's unity. 

259
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,560
That's the unity concept of 
materiality. 

260
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,960
Therefore, that particle can be 
controlled by consciousness, 

261
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,120
which is moving out of the 
material realm and, and can 

262
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,960
paint anything the consciousness
wants it to paint. 

263
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,040
Now, again, where you run into 
trouble is like, what am I 

264
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,600
painting? 
Is it the same as what you're 

265
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,320
painting? 
Is it, you know, obviously we're

266
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,080
sharing something, you know, you
see me, I see you, I see your 

267
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,520
microphone, you know, you see 
mine. 

268
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,880
And it's like, so there is a, an
objective reality to the two of 

269
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,120
us and everybody else that we 
share something with. 

270
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,040
We can see, you know, and I 
mean, even Carl Jung made a 

271
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,720
comment like, well, I think it 
was, no, it wasn't Carl Jung. 

272
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,080
It was Einstein made. 
I think it was Einstein made 

273
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,960
some comment that if you, if you
don't look at the moon, it's not

274
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,080
there. 
You know, it's, it's like 

275
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:46,080
whatever, whatever we're seeing 
is painting in front of us and 

276
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,360
anything we don't see doesn't 
actually exist. 

277
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,320
Like my wife now is is at work 
and it's like she really isn't 

278
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,880
there because I don't see her. 
I don't paint her there anyway. 

279
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,720
But I mean, why are we talking 
about this? 

280
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:07,480
There is, there is, there is a 
degree of truth in what you're 

281
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,280
saying. 
If I think back to the COVID 

282
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,480
era, millions and millions and 
millions of people were told 

283
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,640
that there was a deadly 
contagion that could kill them 

284
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,359
at at any given moment and they 
would need to have a vaccine. 

285
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,119
And they believed it and they 
still do. 

286
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,640
And and it was very real. 
And you've had these 

287
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,760
conversations with people. 
Yes, but I know so and so X who 

288
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,320
died from COVID. 
How dare you say that there was 

289
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,800
no pandemic. 
It was their reality. 

290
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,000
My reality is that there was no 
pandemic. 

291
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,040
Right. 
And you know where you're 

292
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,560
getting you're, you're talking 
which which everybody you know 

293
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,280
was going to do for the most 
part. 

294
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,280
You're talking at a certain 
level of this, of this concept 

295
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,280
of creating reality. 
And this is the, the common 

296
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:06,080
concept of it, which is where we
actually can see effect by mass 

297
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,880
belief in something. 
It's, it's different than this 

298
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,560
higher level of creating your 
own reality because up there 

299
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,680
there's really nothing you can 
say. 

300
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,840
I mean, then you can say, well, 
you and I created the reality 

301
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,880
that the, that, that people 
believed in the vaccine that we 

302
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,400
created that our consciousness 
created that and created all the

303
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,080
people, the higher authority 
telling everybody to get the 

304
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,880
vaccine. 
We created that. 

305
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,440
And, and it's like, well, that's
when you get well, what is that?

306
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,680
I mean, that's, that's at this 
weird level. 

307
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,680
We can't really talk about stuff
at that level. 

308
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,640
It's, it's too weird. 
The level you're talking about 

309
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,680
is the, is the acceptable level 
that if a whole bunch of people 

310
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,400
believe something, then they are
going to take a certain action. 

311
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,600
The all the Germans in 1932 that
believed in, in Hitler, you 

312
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,200
know, took a certain action. 
All the Chinese during the 

313
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,160
Cultural Revolution, they took a
certain action. 

314
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,960
And all the people that believe 
in the, in the vaccine takes a 

315
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,440
certain action. 
So it's like, how do you create 

316
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,000
that? 
And you, you create that. 

317
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,560
I, I don't think that happens. 
And I think you and I are on the

318
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,960
same page with this. 
I don't think that happens 

319
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,520
organically. 
I, I think that has to be 

320
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,640
instigated by an agenda, which 
is what the movie, the agenda 

321
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,000
goes into there. 
There has to be a, a decision 

322
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,160
somewhere here. 
And, and maybe maybe it isn't as

323
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,560
as clear as we would like to 
think it is. 

324
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,680
Maybe it isn't like, well, let's
get rid of, you know, 10 billion

325
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,720
people and give them this poison
vaccine to kill them all. 

326
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:47,080
It may not be that that literal 
it may be, but it may not be. 

327
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,920
It may be more of of like, let's
create this thing in order to 

328
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,720
get control over everybody so we
can kind of funnel them all into

329
00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,800
this, you know, smart city, 
CBDC, digital ID, what whatever 

330
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,000
the hell it is, so we can move 
them into that more easily 

331
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,480
because we've got them kind of 
captured into this fear. 

332
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,000
And and whatnot. 
So yeah. 

333
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,600
And now why is it that those 
people fall for it and we don't.

334
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,320
I think that's the big mystery. 
I don't I don't get that. 

335
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:26,680
What why am I special That and 
and it's it's a huge dichotomy. 

336
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,640
I mean, this isn't this isn't 
just like, well, yeah, I kind of

337
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,560
believe this and you believe 
that whatever. 

338
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:37,800
I mean, this is radical. 
What, what we know and can see 

339
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,200
clearly in front of us that 
these other people can't see. 

340
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,960
I mean, it's like they're blind.
Literally. 

341
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,440
They can't see it. 
And if it's put right in front 

342
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,880
of them, they just reject it. 
It's like la, la, la, la, la. 

343
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,840
No, I don't want to see that. 
That is weird. 

344
00:20:54,160 --> 00:21:00,640
I find that very, very strange. 
Matthias Desmet who wrote the 

345
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,160
book on totalitarianism, but 
many others have written similar

346
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,240
stuff. 
He, he said that around about 

347
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,920
1/3 of people that any at any 
given stage will be alert or 

348
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:20,760
awake, quote unquote, which 
suggests that there will never 

349
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,560
really be a critical mass that's
bigger than that. 

350
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,080
I mean, if I think about my own 
circles, those who believed in 

351
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,400
the COVID scam, those who 
believed in the vaccine, it's 

352
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,240
always around about a third, 
more or less. 

353
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,200
I mean, I beg your pardon, Those
who didn't believe in it, was it

354
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,120
right about a third? 
Sorry, I meant to say that. 

355
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,320
Right. 
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 

356
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,280
That was implied. 
I figured it out. 

357
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,360
You know, it's there. 
There is, you know, from my my 

358
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:57,200
thinking and my research there, 
there is definitely validity in 

359
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,160
in an idea of a psychological 
psychosis, of mass psychosis. 

360
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,720
I don't think Desmond used that 
term. 

361
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,120
I think he he used something 
else. 

362
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,560
He. 
Really dislikes that term. 

363
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,480
Dislikes that term, yeah. 
It was Rob Malone who It was Rob

364
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,600
Malone who went into to Rogan 
and unfortunately butchered what

365
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,920
Matthias Desmond right about. 
What does Desmond use? 

366
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,640
Mass something. 
What is nation fat? 

367
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,920
Right, exactly. 
And then then again, you can 

368
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,920
also look at it from a psychotic
perspective. 

369
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,880
It's more problematic because 
that's that's a that's a psychic

370
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:42,840
pathology that to see on a mass 
scale is, is a problem. 

371
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,400
But we've seen it in history, 
you know, mentioned the Germans 

372
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,680
and mentioned, you know, 
Chinese, the Cultural Revolution

373
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,280
and there's many others, 
obviously is some bigger, some 

374
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,080
smaller throughout history where
it appears as if people become 

375
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,640
psychotic. 
Technically they probably aren't

376
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,800
OK from a psychological 
perspective, but it is a mass 

377
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,560
formation. 
And you know, Desmond's a lot 

378
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,000
clearer with his, he's a, he's a
brilliant psychologist. 

379
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,560
So he, he obviously can word 
this much better than I can. 

380
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,840
But but there's more to it now 
because those, those examples 

381
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:29,880
are radical cultural influences.
And what we're seeing now isn't 

382
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:34,840
as radical as, say, National 
Socialism in Germany or, or the 

383
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,560
Cultural Revolution. 
They're not as radical. 

384
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,440
They, they are there. 
I think they, they do have an 

385
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,760
upper feed. 
They're coming down from, from 

386
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,760
this, you know, WEFUN whatever 
like the agenda talks about, but

387
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,880
to have the effect that it has, 
it's it's not. 

388
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,360
And you know, we, we can talk 
about, well, that's because of 

389
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,520
the COVID thing. 
And, and that was radical, you 

390
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,200
know, the fear that was put 
into, but, but it already, it 

391
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,640
already happened before that it,
it was like people were ready 

392
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,680
for that, you know, to, to be 
radicalised by fear and, and 

393
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,680
whatever they were open to it 
and, and they immediately took 

394
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,320
it and accepted it. 
There was no question anywhere. 

395
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,920
There wasn't people going, Oh, 
well, you know, this, the, I 

396
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,320
don't really believe this yet. 
You know, you, you've got to 

397
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,000
give me more information then. 
Nobody cared about any of that. 

398
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,880
It was like instant, you know, 
so. 

399
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:39,000
This term, radicalization or 
radical, is a term I've thought 

400
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,760
about a lot. 
And yeah, I don't really know 

401
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,840
what it means, Todd. 
It seems to be relative. 

402
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,920
It's always the other person 
who's radicalised. 

403
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,440
There's never you. 
Well, there's, there's a lot of 

404
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,880
words like that, like conspiracy
and and what whatever. 

405
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,560
You know, you're absolutely 
right. 

406
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,320
I don't even know what the 
definition of radical is. 

407
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:08,200
I, I think what makes us not 
radical and them radical is when

408
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,680
it deviates from, I know this is
going to be hard to say without,

409
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,600
without, uh, controversy, but 
when it deviates from, umm, 

410
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,760
objective reality, you know, 
truth, you know, I boil down a 

411
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,880
lot of this stuff because, 
because, because a lot of times 

412
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,040
I sit around and go, Gee, am I 
the crazy one here? 

413
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,240
Am I the one that's paranoid? 
Am I the one that's, you know, 

414
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,560
and I, and I boil it down to 
really simplistic things like 

415
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,360
there is, there's no way that I 
can, I can go on the other side 

416
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:45,680
of the concept that an 8 year 
old should be advocated to have 

417
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,680
surgery or take medication 
because they're not the sex they

418
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,720
were born with. 
I mean something as simple as 

419
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,240
that. 
But that's quite radical. 

420
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,960
Which is radical? 
Which one to to believe that to 

421
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,240
have to have children? 
To have your view in which you 

422
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,400
are opposed to it because the 
normalisation of it is what's 

423
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,840
going on and so your push back 
is what makes you radical. 

424
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,640
Right to to that group of 
people, it's radical, yeah, but 

425
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,800
it just like what you're saying 
that the term oscillates back 

426
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,560
and forth depending on who's 
saying it. 

427
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,880
But. 
And you could say that about 

428
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,720
conspiracy or you could say that
about a lot of things. 

429
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,480
It's or truth even, you know, 
facts are rat are, you know, 

430
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,920
dependent on who is defining 
them. 

431
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,840
But there's a, there's a, an 
untruth in that. 

432
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,880
You know, now how people use the
word radical, I, I don't know. 

433
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,200
I mean, obviously it's, it's 
probably deviating from the 

434
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,320
actual definition of it in the 
dictionary. 

435
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,400
But yes, you know, you were a 
radical if you were in Nazi 

436
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,720
Germany and, and was Jewish or 
believed or, or was not Jewish 

437
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,280
but believed that the Nazi idea 
of exterminating or not, the 

438
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,480
people didn't necessarily know 
that's what was happening. 

439
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,760
But you know the the negative 
perception of Jews. 

440
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,240
If you didn't believe in that, 
you were radical. 

441
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,240
Yeah, but also also sorry, but 
similarly, the negative 

442
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,600
perception of Nazi Germans, 
because we have to, we have to 

443
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,440
establish what what was real at 
the time and, and, and, and it's

444
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,000
not just that it's any form of 
history. 

445
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,840
Look at South Africa, for 
example, right, because we had 

446
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,840
apartheid. 
So therefore the black 

447
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,120
population was oppressed for a 
few decades by a white minority.

448
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,000
That creates the perception that
I, as a white South African, 

449
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,040
hate blacks. 
Well, you're guilty by 

450
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,240
association. 
Yeah. 

451
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,200
Yeah. 
And that's the same thing going 

452
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,760
back to the Trump thing. 
Anybody that doesn't think Trump

453
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:54,960
is, is somebody to hate is, is 
somehow sick, you know, hates, 

454
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,160
hates blacks and and homosexuals
and whatever because the 

455
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,040
perception is, is that Trump 
hates those people too, which 

456
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,560
which I don't think is true. 
But you know, we're getting, 

457
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,920
we're getting into like 
objective truth. 

458
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,360
It's like, what is that? 
And I think it boils down as you

459
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:18,000
reduce it and reduce it and 
reduce it, it does boil down to 

460
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:26,480
two kind of basic values of life
and, and decency and whatever. 

461
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,600
And there are of course people 
that even argue with that. 

462
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,880
I mean, you know, the, the 
Nietzsche concept of, of 

463
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,320
creating your own morality. 
You know, what is morality? 

464
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,880
I mean, what's good for the for 
the snake is not good for the 

465
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,960
mouse. 
You know it's, but it's like. 

466
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,680
That's why I sorry for 
interjecting, but that's why I 

467
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,640
tend to make the argument that I
don't know if you agree with me,

468
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,960
but I'll make the argument that 
it's very good. 

469
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:59,360
It's very healthy to have a 
belief in something outside of 

470
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,680
of the material. 
I I absolutely agree. 

471
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,320
In fact, I think that's one of 
the primary reasons why we're in

472
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,000
the mess we're in is because the
agenda is made great effort over

473
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,000
many years in the West at least,
to remove any kind of spiritual 

474
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:21,440
faith or or you know, religion. 
But that that removal of faith 

475
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,960
gets replaced with the belief in
the state, for example, or 

476
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,160
exactly in the in the in the 
democratic authorities. 

477
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,360
Yeah, exactly. 
I mean, Young said this years 

478
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,960
ago. 
He said that that God is an, is 

479
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,840
an archetype that that we will 
relate to. 

480
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,600
And if we remove God, then 
you're going to relate to some 

481
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,520
other power or authority, 
whatever it might be. 

482
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:51,080
That probably isn't a good idea.
At least God is like, you know, 

483
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,480
it's like you can't really nail 
it down. 

484
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,480
Like God isn't an authority in 
the in the sense. 

485
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,960
And that's a lot of reason I 
hear all the time that people 

486
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,560
don't believe in God is because 
they say, wow, it's just another

487
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240
authority. 
And it's like, well, do you, do 

488
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,440
you believe in sticking your 
finger in a light socket? 

489
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,040
And they go, no. 
And then I go, well, so you 

490
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,640
think electricity is an 
authority over you, You, you 

491
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,240
think it's, it's a boss, it's 
telling you what to do. 

492
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,520
And they go, no. 
And I go, well, then why don't 

493
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,080
you stick your finger in the 
light socket? 

494
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,960
It's like, you know, do you 
think that electricity has power

495
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:28,840
over you? 
Well, yeah. 

496
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,800
OK. 
I mean, it's the same same kind 

497
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,240
of thing. 
I mean, of course it's 

498
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,880
different. 
But yeah, you know, the, the 

499
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,600
rules of God are, are just 
common sense rules. 

500
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,640
It's like, if you want to have a
shitty life, then go do this, 

501
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,880
this, this, you know, and, and 
you will. 

502
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960
It's like God isn't going to 
punish you, you're just going to

503
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,120
have a shitty life. 
Yeah, but I mean, you were 

504
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,560
touching on something that I've 
been thinking about also. 

505
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,160
So, you know, I've, I've had 
David Ike on my show a few times

506
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,880
and I like David and I like some
of his, I like some of his views

507
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,080
too. 
But I really, really take issue 

508
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,080
with, with his sort of anti 
religious position because, 

509
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,120
because it, it requires A 
remarkable amount of hubris to 

510
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,040
think that you, you are powerful
enough to, to be in full 

511
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,800
control. 
And and that's one of the things

512
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,440
that I think is, is beautiful 
about belief, faith is that it 

513
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,720
does, it does force a sense of 
humility on you. 

514
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,880
Absolutely, yeah. 
And I'm not that familiar with 

515
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,680
David Icke's work to even know 
that about him. 

516
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,640
I wasn't aware of that. 
Well, he says that religion is a

517
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,040
is a control mechanism. 
Well, religion is, I mean 

518
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,120
religion, you know, we're and 
this is something people always 

519
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,920
conflate religion and, and 
belief or faith or, you know, 

520
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,240
spirituality, because that's, 
that's a catch phrase. 

521
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,960
It's not the same. 
Religion is an organisation 

522
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,680
organised by people in order to,
at its core, at its authentic 

523
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,240
core, to propagate or to preach 
or to, you know, whatever a 

524
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,200
particular idea about what God 
is or what Jesus is or whatever 

525
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,600
it might be. 
That's open to problems and 

526
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,680
obviously there's been a lot of 
them over time. 

527
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,320
It's open to problems and 
interpretation. 

528
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,480
It's open to problems of 
corruption, it's open to 

529
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,320
problems of, of seizing power 
and whatever it might be. 

530
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,840
Religion isn't the issue, 
although I think religion is 

531
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,680
wonderful as a framework for 
people that believe that can go 

532
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,160
to church and can, you know, do 
all the ritual structures of the

533
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,320
religion. 
But it is a problem. 

534
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,920
Organised religion does have its
problems in my, in my view, if 

535
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,040
you find the right place or the 
right one or the right group of 

536
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,280
people, whatever, it may not 
have as much problem. 

537
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,120
It's more of a historical 
problem to me than it is an 

538
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:01,080
active one. 
But what you said earlier about 

539
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,280
the humility, it's, it's like 
the whole concept of, of 

540
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,400
transhumanism, which is kind of 
one of the leaders in this whole

541
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,560
world. 
Weirdness that's going on is 

542
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:19,880
this idea that we can transcend 
God's creation, his God's 

543
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:26,360
ability to create and to to make
the complexity of the world 

544
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,960
that, that, that energy, 
whatever you want to call it, 

545
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,400
call it God, call it whatever 
you want. 

546
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,280
That we can do that ourselves. 
And we're so far away from 

547
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,840
anything just because we can 
build a robot, you know, it's 

548
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,960
like or AI or whatever. 
Look what we're doing. 

549
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,400
We're as good as God, you know, 
or the medicine thing or 

550
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,920
whatever is nonsense. 
And there's such a great, I 

551
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,120
don't know how familiar you are 
with the book of Job. 

552
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,160
There's such AI mean the the 
kind of the culmination of that,

553
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,000
you know, joke gets all pissed 
off and like saying, why are you

554
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,680
doing this to me? 
You've destroyed my life. 

555
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:57,840
You've done this, you've done 
that. 

556
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,520
And he has this, this, this face
off with God and God guy. 

557
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,080
And you know, God, you know, I'm
paraphrasing obviously, but God 

558
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,120
basically says, you know why? 
You know, you're, you're like 

559
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,199
one person and and you're like 
making this big deal out of this

560
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:15,960
shit. 
It's it's of course God didn't 

561
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,800
say that, but but it's like, 
look at all that I've done. 

562
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,440
Look at look at what I've 
created. 

563
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,320
How dare you even question this.
This doesn't have anything to do

564
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,480
with you as an individual 
person. 

565
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,080
Look at the, look at the, I 
mean, he goes through, look at 

566
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,199
the forest, look at the animals,
look at the rivers. 

567
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,080
Look at look at this, look at 
all of this brilliant creation 

568
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,880
that I, that I have created. 
And you're going to focus on 

569
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,080
this. 
You know, you're going to get 

570
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,480
upset with me because I, I 
killed your family or whatever, 

571
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,880
you know it. 
And it's, of course, it's all 

572
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,239
metaphorical. 
It's, it's not literal. 

573
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,639
Oh, God's a bad thing. 
You know, he hurt this poor man 

574
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,320
that really believed in him or 
whatnot. 

575
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:58,880
It's, it's a, it's a metaphor. 
It's an analogy of, of what it 

576
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,280
is We focus on that. 
We judge God by, you know, we 

577
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,800
judge God by well, if there 
were, if there was a God, we 

578
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,960
wouldn't have like childhood 
leukaemia and we wouldn't have 

579
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,520
cancer and we wouldn't have God,
wouldn't, you know, wouldn't do 

580
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,000
that. 
He's, he's hateful and he's this

581
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,600
and he's that. 
And it's like, you know, the, 

582
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,080
the whole purpose of of being a 
being a material being is that 

583
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,680
we die and that we live for a 
short period of time and then we

584
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,400
die. 
And it's, it's like that's the 

585
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,800
material thing. 
It's that, that's not the 

586
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,240
importance of it. 
And most of what God does that 

587
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:39,240
people say is shitty, we bring 
on ourselves. 

588
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,720
You know, we have, we have free 
will and we create most of the 

589
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:46,880
problem that we complain that 
God has created for us. 

590
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,080
Do you think we have free will? 
I thought about that also. 

591
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,480
I'm not sure I. 
Know that's a big topic. 

592
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,960
I shouldn't be talking about any
of this, I'm just an idiot. 

593
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,080
You, you, you know, you're 
throwing out trigger words. 

594
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,640
Yeah. 
I know I'm thinking about all 

595
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,200
your listeners that are going 
what is? 

596
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Who does this guy think he is? 
It's what Noam Chomsky said. 

597
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,680
You, you have the parameters of 
acceptable discussion or 

598
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,000
discourse or I guess by 
extension movement. 

599
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,360
And then you're encouraged to to
aggressively move and have 

600
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,640
discourse within those 
boundaries so that you think 

601
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,080
you're free, but you can't go 
beyond those boundaries. 

602
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,400
With with what you. 
Can, but, but with there's a 

603
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,680
great deal of resistance. 
Of what there is. 

604
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,120
A border of a country is a good 
thing, right? 

605
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,960
It's it's a good thing. 
It creates, it creates 

606
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,640
neighbours. 
But I'm still saying that by 

607
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,560
virtue of the fact that 
somebody's born in North Korea, 

608
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,920
how free are they really? 
Well, within within that context

609
00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:00,760
you're 100% correct. 
But the the the metaphysical 

610
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,040
perspective is more that we can,
we can manipulate matter because

611
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,680
matter is an illusion that 
matter is created. 

612
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,920
And the only reason why we abide
by it is because we're told the 

613
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,880
story that we have to or that it
would be almost impossible not 

614
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,440
to. 
Like your story about 

615
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,920
travelling. 
It's like we believe that that 

616
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,040
is a limitation because it's 
been put in place and we believe

617
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,160
it. 
We believe it because we see 

618
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,400
evidence of it clearly over and 
over and over again. 

619
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,840
But we believe it and therefore 
we don't attempt to change 

620
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,760
something that we believe. 
And according again, I, I think 

621
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,800
there's a certain point where we
don't die on that hill. 

622
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,800
You know, it's like there's no 
point in you walking across the 

623
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,360
border or, or doing whatever. 
Like Jesus would walk on the 

624
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,120
water. 
I mean, that's the whole Jesus 

625
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,520
on the water thing. 
Who is it? 

626
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,640
See, I don't know the Bible well
enough, but is it Peter or Paul 

627
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,280
or somebody that that they're on
the boats or something? 

628
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,200
And Jesus says, come over here 
and he says I can't, I can't 

629
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,200
walk on the water. 
And Jesus says ye of little 

630
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,440
faith, something to that regard.
And it's like, what do you 

631
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,960
expect? 
I have to have faith that I can 

632
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,880
walk on the water. 
And it's like, well, yeah, you 

633
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,280
do. 
If you really believe, if you 

634
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,040
really believe, you can do 
anything. 

635
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,440
If you really believe that that 
you have free will, then you do 

636
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,040
you. 
You don't follow the rules. 

637
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,840
You don't stop because there's 
water, you know, and there's a 

638
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,600
lot of evidence that if you step
on water, you'll, you'll sink 

639
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,120
through it. 
So it's like, it's a, it's a 

640
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,800
story that we have reason to 
believe. 

641
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,520
Now there's little ones that we 
can overcome. 

642
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,800
You know, I have a lot of 
clients that have no self 

643
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,280
confidence. 
They, they won't go out for a 

644
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,160
job, they won't go date a woman.
They, they won't ask a girl on a

645
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,640
date because they're terrified. 
They're told the story that, you

646
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,480
know, blah, blah, blah. 
Those, those are easier ones 

647
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,000
say, well, you know, just go do 
it. 

648
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,920
It's like there isn't, there 
isn't a policeman there that's 

649
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,400
going to like crack him in the 
head if he goes and asks a girl 

650
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,360
out on a date. 
So there's not a lot of evidence

651
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,800
to say other than rejection. 
No, I don't want to go on a date

652
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:13,680
with you. 
You're ugly. 

653
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,480
OK, that's rejection. 
But they face that over and over

654
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,600
and over again and eventually 
something will come through. 

655
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:24,360
So those are easy ones obviously
to they're not easy for a lot of

656
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,520
people, but but they're they're 
at least conceptually easy where

657
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,880
what you're saying is not, I 
mean, you know, to break that 

658
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,360
story is not easy. 
But have you tried, have you 

659
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,200
just walked up to the gate and 
say I'm going to get on that 

660
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,640
plane and go, have you tried? 
No, probably not. 

661
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,680
I wouldn't either. 
OK, so but you go, well, maybe 

662
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,360
something would happen if you 
truly believed you had to get to

663
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,960
Canada and and get on a plane, 
then maybe something would 

664
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,400
happen. 
Maybe the person at the gate 

665
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,760
would drop dead from a heart 
attack or something, whatever, I

666
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,400
don't know. 
Something would happen if you 

667
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,840
breakthrough that story, that 
belief. 

668
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Now this is hypothetical. 
This is this is a more of a 

669
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,240
higher up transcendent spiritual
belief. 

670
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:10,280
Do do you do it is done unto you
as you believe. 

671
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,400
You know, it's the story of 
walking on the water is the 

672
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,880
metaphor. 
I don't think we need to do 

673
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,280
that. 
In in every regard in our life. 

674
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,680
So we don't really have to, you 
know, exercise our free will. 

675
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,760
And yeah, I think from a 
pragmatic point of view, you can

676
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,840
definitely say what you said. 
We don't really have free will 

677
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,360
because we can't really do 
anything we want. 

678
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,400
Can the guy that was born with 
no legs, can he go and win the 

679
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,680
Olympics as a sprinter? 
You know, no, he doesn't have 

680
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,480
free will even if he wanted to 
do that. 

681
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,200
And also, when does it start? 
I mean, for example, you know, 

682
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,000
we have a little child and he 
doesn't start crying because he 

683
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,760
chooses to eat, cries because 
he's hungry or because there's 

684
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,720
something wrong. 
He doesn't understand, Will. 

685
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,320
It's just an instinctive 
response. 

686
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,320
Or if somebody comes up behind 
you and they stab you in the 

687
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,920
back, you instinctively respond.
You don't act on free will. 

688
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:23,760
Yeah, you, you have to go back 
to, to what we were originally 

689
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,120
talking about with creating your
own reality. 

690
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,680
If I'm sitting in a room and 
somebody tells me stories or if 

691
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,880
I watch TV shows or reads books 
about or listen to what you just

692
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,760
said about people coming up to 
you and stabbing you in the back

693
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:41,800
and there's nothing, there's no 
free will in what you do there, 

694
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,000
then that's the story. 
And that's, that's what I'll 

695
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,040
believe and that's how I'll see 
it. 

696
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,600
That's how I'll see it for you. 
That's how I'll see it for 

697
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,280
everybody around me because I'm 
creating that reality through my

698
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,600
own consciousness. 
And this, this is that that 

699
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,600
really weird metaphysical idea 
I'm talking about. 

700
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:05,640
So the story is, is what you 
just said. 

701
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,000
You can't get on a plane if 
you're in North Korea. 

702
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000
You can't do this. 
You can't do that if if you know

703
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,120
your kids crying, your kid 
wants, you know, he's not 

704
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,840
exercising very well and neither
are you because you don't want 

705
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,560
him to be crying and whatnot. 
But that goes into this idea 

706
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,360
that we're creating our own 
reality. 

707
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,360
If we created reality where 
where nobody stabbed anybody, 

708
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,520
where all borders were free and 
kids got everything that they 

709
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,640
wanted, then that would be the 
reality we would be living in. 

710
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,720
And I'm not quite sure if that's
good. 

711
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:40,080
I think it's a terrible. 
Idea. 

712
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,000
Yeah, I mean, there, there, 
there's reason for restriction. 

713
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,600
There's reason for the story 
that we can't do anything we 

714
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,640
want. 
Well, I mean hierarchy. 

715
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,960
Sorry, but hierarchy creates 
order. 

716
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,080
Yeah. 
What do you mean? 

717
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,600
Like what? 
What does that with what we're 

718
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,120
talking about? 
High Hierarchy creates order. 

719
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,560
Yeah, and order, Yeah, creates 
boundaries and parameters. 

720
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:14,080
For physical beings, yeah, yeah,
I, I mean, this is what I think 

721
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,800
philosophically we're getting 
into here is this is this idea 

722
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,280
of, of why can I, can I curse on
your show? 

723
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:27,120
Can I use the S word, F word? 
Why the fuck does it matter if 

724
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,120
if you know, we're we are 
material beings that are 

725
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,120
radically limited just by our 
materiality. 

726
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,560
Unless you think you can 
recreate your materiality, that 

727
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,240
you can make yourself a snake or
a weasel or whatever in order to

728
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,920
to better deal with your 
environment. 

729
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,680
You can shape shift. 
There are people that believe 

730
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,040
you can. 
Yeah, right. 

731
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,160
Exactly. 
That's that's a good example. 

732
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:56,000
But we don't do those things 
because our higher self is 

733
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,840
essentially saying no, no, no, 
you're, you're, you're supposed 

734
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,520
to as a physical being. 
The whole point of being 

735
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,080
physical and not being ethereal,
not being a spirit, which which 

736
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,120
is where we return and what our 
true essence is, is to go 

737
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,240
through the challenge of 
limitation. 

738
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,600
You know, that's, that's the 
purpose that we're limited. 

739
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,520
I mean, look at some of these 
people that are born with no 

740
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,720
limbs or whatever, some of the 
stories you hear about these 

741
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:27,440
people being able to grasp, grab
a hold of life and make these 

742
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,800
incredible experiences in life 
with these radical, radical, 

743
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,760
radical limitations, You know, 
So I, I agree with you with 

744
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,080
that. 
It's like there is there's no 

745
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:46,960
point in, in taking your, your 
ability to, to manipulate matter

746
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,640
and get on a plane and go to 
Canada using that, using that 

747
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,840
ability. 
There's there's no purpose in 

748
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,760
it. 
If if you had to get to Canada 

749
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,760
because you're, you know, you 
had a child or whatever that was

750
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,640
dying there and you being there 
would save them, you probably 

751
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,040
would figure out a way to get 
there, you know, that would not 

752
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,040
limit you. 
But there's really no reason to 

753
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,080
at this point. 
Does that make any sense? 

754
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,040
Huh. 
In all fairness, there's there's

755
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,120
no reason for anybody to go to 
Canada. 

756
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,760
No, there isn't. 
Not now. 

757
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,880
There isn't actually. 
You know, it could be a lot 

758
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,880
worse. 
This isn't North Korea or any 

759
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,560
number of places that would be 
would be a lot worse to be in. 

760
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,760
But Australia, you know. 
Yeah. 

761
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,760
A friend of mine said that being
in Canada is like being on the 

762
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,040
first boat that hit the beach in
Normandy. 

763
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,520
It's like they're going to be 
the first one that gets mowed 

764
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,400
down, you know, with all that's 
going on. 

765
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,880
And that's probably true. 
So. 

766
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,200
Yeah. 
We've been chatting very 

767
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,400
philosophically, but I mean, 
that's your shtick. 

768
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,960
That's, that's what you do 
shrew, shrew views is, is a, is 

769
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,560
like a, it's like a sort of 
philosophical, psychological 

770
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,760
take on on reality in the world 
around us. 

771
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,240
And you've got a book out, 
haven't you? 

772
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,400
Yes. 
Sir, it's coming out on Monday 

773
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,160
where you can get it, if you can
see that that's the book, The 

774
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,160
View of the Shrew. 
We're all shrews, all of us on 

775
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:24,280
this side of the fence. 
I, I named us that and that's my

776
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:29,640
sub stack at shrewviews.com. 
And we do, you know, I, I 

777
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,920
appreciate you calling it 
philosophical. 

778
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,400
I don't consider myself a 
philosopher at all. 

779
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,960
I but I think it's more 
philosophy and psychology from a

780
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,760
layman's perspective, really, 
even though I'm a professional 

781
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,720
psychologist or psychotherapist,
it's still, it's still my take 

782
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,520
as a, as a layman, as a person 
on what's going on. 

783
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,760
And the interesting thing is 
that when I first started 

784
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,160
writing, I thought, why would 
anybody be interested in, in 

785
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,200
what I'm having to say? 
And the number one comment I get

786
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,880
from the people that read my 
work is I was just thinking the 

787
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,240
same thing this morning. 
And thank you so much for 

788
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:12,840
putting it into the words you 
put it into because it makes so 

789
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,800
much sense and it resonates 
with, with what I'm thinking. 

790
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,560
And that's it. 
That's, that's what drives me to

791
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,520
write because every time I 
write, I go, Gee, I wonder who 

792
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:26,840
out there is thinking this too? 
And so it's it's been very, very

793
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,840
rewarding in that sense. 
But I think it matters also, you

794
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,320
know, something that I've 
learned from the COVID era is 

795
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,840
the profound unreliability and 
inconsistency of materialism. 

796
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,240
Well, that's interesting because
that's, that's my experience as 

797
00:47:44,240 --> 00:47:46,760
well. 
And I think it's a lot. 

798
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,000
It's like all of a sudden you 
go, what about that, you know, 

799
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,120
is, is that, is that true? 
I've always thought it was. 

800
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,240
And then you start to look into 
it and you start going, you 

801
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,880
know, it probably wasn't. 
And that's that's a strange 

802
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,800
awakening because it's not, it's
not based on just, oh, that's 

803
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,120
contrary. 
Oh, this is contrary to what 

804
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,280
everybody thinks. 
So it must, it must not be true.

805
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,360
It's based on evidence. 
You look into it and you start 

806
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,520
like going, I never thought of 
that. 

807
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,280
That's absolutely doesn't make 
sense. 

808
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,640
How, how did they do blah, blah,
blah. 

809
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,920
And then you go, because you 
take everything for granted. 

810
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,480
It's, it's like, oh, sure, you 
know, it happened. 

811
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,120
So they must have figured it 
out. 

812
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,000
And, and then when you, when you
go, well, maybe it didn't happen

813
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,040
and you start looking and you 
realise they didn't figure it 

814
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,840
out. 
And like the moon landing is a 

815
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,680
good one. 
You know, my, my new theory with

816
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,720
the moon landing is that they, 
they, and this isn't my theory. 

817
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:50,280
This is just an idea that they 
did actually land on the moon, 

818
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,080
but they didn't have the 
technology to let everybody know

819
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,080
that to like have like the 
cameras and all that. 

820
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,920
And they go, but we've got to 
let everybody know we're there. 

821
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:04,600
So let's make that part up. 
Let's let, let's do a film of 

822
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,040
them walking around on the moon 
and let's make all that crap up 

823
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,280
so that we can prove or we can 
pretend like we're proving that 

824
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,520
people were actually there and 
it all backfired on them that 

825
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,360
it's like, whoa, no, this is all
fake. 

826
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,240
And well, we actually did land. 
But I. 

827
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,640
Mean it's hard. 
We all know that the Earth is 

828
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,040
flat and the moon is just 
plasma. 

829
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:24,840
That's right. 
Exactly. 

830
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,120
Yeah, it's it's fake. 
We don't know what's on the 

831
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,880
other side of it. 
So who who knows what's over 

832
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,000
there? 
By the way, have you seen that 

833
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:33,720
movie? 
I think it's an Apple movie. 

834
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:38,120
It's called Fly Me to the Moon. 
Moon came out a year ago with 

835
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,880
Woody Harrelson and Scarlett 
Jansen. 

836
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,760
And I forget now as a Channing 
Tatum. 

837
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,160
I think it's very good. 
And and the reason why I say 

838
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,800
that is, is that it's the first 
movie in the mainstream 

839
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,160
Hollywood sense with a list 
actors and a big budget that 

840
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,680
actually entertains the idea 
that the moon landing was a 

841
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,560
hoax. 
Really. 

842
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,280
Yes. 
Is does it do it comedicly? 

843
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,520
I mean, it doesn't make it fun. 
Yes, it basically makes makes 

844
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,720
their side look ridiculous and 
there's a count show, but the 

845
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,560
point is, is that it nonetheless
entertains the idea. 

846
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,280
And it's it's a big portion of 
the movie. 

847
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:28,120
And that guy, that guy who is 
the clown is Woody Harrelson. 

848
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,960
And and it's such, it's such a 
good spin to the moon landing 

849
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,200
Apollo mission story. 
I would strongly recommend 

850
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:37,800
watching it. 
Oh, definitely. 

851
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,160
I'm going to check that out. 
That's very cool, because 

852
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,120
remember, that's very cool. 
As opposed to simply not even 

853
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,400
entertaining the idea, 
Entertaining the idea is now 

854
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,440
opening the gate. 
Right. 

855
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,520
It it particularly if if the 
truth is the thing people are 

856
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,600
starting to believe that they 
didn't believe before. 

857
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,040
And you know what is truth? 
OK, well, in the material world,

858
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,480
there is an objective truth. 
Now, you can get into the 

859
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,640
metaphysical crap we've been 
talking about and say, well, 

860
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,800
there really is no truth, you 
know, because of everything's 

861
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,280
manipulated. 
But in the material world, at 

862
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,920
least a story that you and I, 
and I guess most every other 

863
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:19,480
person, if they're real, adhere 
to, there is a truth. 

864
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,880
You know, there is a truth about
911. 

865
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,680
There is a truth about Kennedy 
and whatever. 

866
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,200
And if that truth was covered up
through government manipulation 

867
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,680
or whatnot, and most people 
didn't didn't see the truth, 

868
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,240
then what you're describing is 
that people are waking up to the

869
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:39,240
truth. 
They're not, they're not 

870
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:42,840
changing their story. 
They're just that the story does

871
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,880
change, but they're not just 
changing their story. 

872
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,120
Now there's a lot of people I 
believe that are coming to the 

873
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,080
truth with no evidence. 
They're they're not actually 

874
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,040
seeing the evidence. 
They're just following the 

875
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,840
trend. 
Oh, Gee, did you know that, you 

876
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,120
know, all kinds of people are 
believing now that Kennedy was 

877
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,760
not assassinated the way that we
always thought. 

878
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,360
But they don't actually go in 
and say, Gee, I wonder why 

879
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,000
people are thinking that. 
And look at it. 

880
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,760
They're just going along like 
they did before with the 

881
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,640
consensus of, of what people are
saying or what movies are saying

882
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,120
or whatever, which is better 
than the other way. 

883
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:21,800
Obviously, you know, you can 
propagandise the truth. 

884
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,880
You can, you can cause people to
believe the truth the same way 

885
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,560
you can cause them to believe a 
lie. 

886
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:34,640
You know, it's the same method. 
You know, if you don't look at 

887
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,120
evidence, you're following the 
pack. 

888
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,720
And that's better than the other
way. 

889
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,840
I mean, it's better than 
following the pack for a lie or 

890
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,600
an untruth, so. 
You're touching on epistemology 

891
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,440
though, the theory of knowledge.
Why do you believe what you 

892
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,320
believe? 
This is a conversation I had 

893
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,520
recently with Peter Boghossian, 
who wrote a great book called 

894
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,120
How to Have Impossible 
Conversations, and he argues 

895
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,880
that facts don't really matter, 
what matters is why people 

896
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,600
believe what they believe. 
Well, ultimately that's true. 

897
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,280
I mean, obviously, ultimately 
that's true. 

898
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:14,520
I still believe, and maybe you 
do too, even though I'm talking 

899
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:16,800
about this weird metaphysical 
stuff. 

900
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,600
I, I still do believe there's an
objective reality. 

901
00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:21,240
And I knew you asked that 
question around at the 

902
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:23,120
beginning. 
I wish you washed around it. 

903
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,200
But I, you know, I, I don't 
think we can really function 

904
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:31,480
through life, at least easily, 
as easy as as possible without 

905
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,920
believing that. 
I mean, I, I have to believe if 

906
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,120
I walked out in the street or if
I walked out onto the water, I 

907
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,120
would sink. 
You know, I'm, I am of little 

908
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,840
faith according to Jesus. 
So I, I do believe there's an 

909
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,520
objective reality. 
Now coming to that is what 

910
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,920
you're saying. 
It's like, if I don't believe it

911
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,960
is that as powerful? 
Like if I, if I don't believe in

912
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,680
the assassination, say as, as 
actually really happened, that 

913
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,920
is more powerful for me that I 
believe something that isn't 

914
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,040
true is. 
And I think that's what you're 

915
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,680
what you're coming to with that,
right? 

916
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,520
That, yeah, in my personal life,
and I deal with this every day. 

917
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,560
I mean, the the stuff that I 
deal with with clients is, is a 

918
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,040
departure from objective 
reality. 

919
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,440
It's it's, it's an insistent 
that subjective reality is the 

920
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,800
truth. 
And that sometimes is true, but 

921
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,480
often it's not. 
I'll give you a good example. 

922
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,560
Just one final example, because 
I'm just checking the time 

923
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:41,440
contagion is one that I have 
focused a lot on since about 

924
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,920
halfway through the COVID era. 
You know, can you give me 

925
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,960
something and make me sick? 
And it's one reason why those 

926
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,160
people get sick then when 
they're around somebody else 

927
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:56,400
who's sick, they, they, they 
self prove their belief because 

928
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:02,320
of a, of a more, you know, 
placebo like effect or nocebo 

929
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,920
effect that, that if they 
believe they're going to get 

930
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,600
sick, if they're around somebody
who has a cold, then they're 

931
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,520
more likely to get a cold. 
I'm in the same place with you 

932
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,280
with that. 
And I haven't, I haven't done 

933
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,840
enough research. 
There's a common sense element 

934
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:22,040
to me about pathogens and about 
the transference of bacteria and

935
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,280
parasites and various things 
like that, that just fit the 

936
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,560
world view of nature. 
You know, it just makes more 

937
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,320
sense to me that you can spread 
a disease. 

938
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,360
And, and I, I think that I think
what's good it's going to come 

939
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,120
down to is that it's partially 
true and it's partially false. 

940
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,080
And I think that science, quote 
unquote, whatever the medical 

941
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:49,080
industry, whatever has run with 
it for monetized reasons, run 

942
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,960
with this pathogen spreading 
pathogen thing, you know, blah, 

943
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:53,680
blah, blah. 
So I don't think it's, it's 

944
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,680
quite as true as they want 
everybody to think it is. 

945
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,960
And I'm very much on the fence 
with the virus thing. 

946
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,960
I'm very close to believing that
that the virus idea is, is not 

947
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,320
accurate. 
But you know, the whole bubonic 

948
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,040
plague with fleas, and I mean, 
did, did fleas actually have a 

949
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,440
pathogen in them that they bit 
people from being on rats and 

950
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,840
whatever. 
It just makes sense. 

951
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,760
Now there are people that argue 
that that say the whole bubonic 

952
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,280
plague thing was a hoax and was 
bullshit and why not so. 

953
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,560
What you're saying is a good 
thing because what you're saying

954
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,440
actually is what science is 
about. 

955
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,800
It's about questioning all the 
time and not just grammatically 

956
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,600
accepting. 
The difference is, is that we're

957
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,120
being, well, maybe it's not that
big of a difference, but we're 

958
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,240
being driven by an agenda there.
There is an agenda there that 

959
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,400
says, hey, it's the, it's the 
our better interest that 

960
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,200
everybody believed this. 
You know, that we will be able 

961
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,840
to control it better if 
everybody believed this. 

962
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,960
And you know, you could say with
the medical industry's always 

963
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,680
had an agenda because there's 
money involved, big pharma, 

964
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:01,960
whatever. 
And that's true. 

965
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,880
The king 102 hundred years ago 
has an agenda. 

966
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:10,240
But those are more obvious 
manipulations, you know, then 

967
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:12,720
then what we're seeing now. 
What we're seeing now is cloaked

968
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:17,160
in deception. 
And that's the bad part. 

969
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:19,360
That's the reason why people 
have to wake up. 

970
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,840
It's easier to wake up 100 years
ago because people thought they 

971
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,560
went, oh, that's weird. 
I it doesn't make any sense. 

972
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,800
You know, they're common sense. 
Told them no, it doesn't make 

973
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,880
any sense. 
And so they actually, and this 

974
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,000
is something I think David Ike 
talks about a lot with the 

975
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,240
manipulation, indoctrination of 
education. 

976
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,240
It's like we're taught not to 
think, and so be it. 

977
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,040
Todd, how can I follow your 
work? 

978
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:53,840
Go to shrewviews.com www.shrew 
Like the little animal views all

979
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:57,720
one word and if you're 
interested in the book, go to 

980
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:04,440
Amazon and look for it. 
The view of the shrew clever or 

981
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,440
book stop by Todd Hayon slash 
Todd Hayon. 

982
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,560
It'll be there on the 30th on 
Monday. 

983
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,760
I would love it. 
I would love to see anybody new 

984
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,600
come to the I mean we have a 
community there that is that is 

985
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,280
the primary focus of shrew 
views. 

986
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,800
My writing is kind of the thing 
that gathers people, but it's 

987
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,000
the comments. 
I comment all the time. 

988
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,200
I'm always engaged with people 
commenting and, and everybody is

989
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,200
everybody that's there is we're 
all of like mine, which is kind 

990
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,520
of strange to think about. 
I mean, it's really weird that 

991
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,160
so many people on this side of 
things all think the same. 

992
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,240
They all pretty much agree on at
least the major, the major 

993
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:47,480
things. 
So it's nice and isolation is 

994
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,240
one of the biggest problems that
we're dealing with now is, is 

995
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,080
this. 
And that's why what you do is is

996
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:57,360
so important and anything in the
alternative news media is, is so

997
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,040
radically important because the 
the mainstream is captured. 

998
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,200
Of course, that's obvious. 
It's it's like it's not going to

999
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,760
give you anything that's 
consistently accurate. 

1000
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,080
So thank you for what what 
you're doing and what you've 

1001
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,760
always been doing. 
I mean, you're the man, so. 

1002
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,840
Thanks, Todd. 
And with that, Todd hey, and 

1003
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,120
thank you for joining me in the 
trenches. 

1004
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,320
Thank you, guys. 
Take care. 

1005
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,440
Thank you, Jeremy.