Zooby again my friend, thank you for joining me in the trenches.
Happy to be here man, how you doing?
Dude, it's been a long time since we chatted you in South
Africa and a lot has happened since then.
Wink, wink. Seriously, dude, Seriously?
Yeah, the past couple years have.
The past five or six years have been a bit of a blur to be
honest with you. I mean, 50% of it was somewhat
taken away from us during due to the whole scam demic situation.
But yeah, time is time is flying.
And I think the older you get and the more years you've lived,
the faster the perception of each year that passes by because
it's a smaller percentage of your life.
So I guess that's just going to keep moving in that way.
Yes, but you are being very vague.
I am referring to the arrival of your of your new offspring.
It is amazing. It is amazing, man, and I feel
very blessed. I'm happy to take on new roles
as a as a husband and as a father.
I've gone from 1:00 to 3:00 in the past couple of years in
terms of my responsibilities and my duties.
So it's a beautiful thing, man. Ultimately, it's what we are
here for, if you really think about it.
So it's feels good to continue on that chain and to be at the
early phase of that. I'm looking forward to all of
the ups and downs and the blessings and the challenges and
everything that's going to come with parenthood, man.
So it's an exciting time for me. Yeah, I love that you said that
because I mean, a lot of what I do is very negative and cynical
and pessimistic and the world doesn't have enough of people
like you who who bring the counterbalance to all of that.
Well, thank you. Just about an hour ago, before
recording this, I was going through some of my notifications
online, which I, I don't do all that often, but I sometimes I
find very odd criticisms of myself.
Sometimes, you know, I get, I get the usual stuff.
But then I saw someone criticising me for being too
positive. They said that I'm the epitome.
They said, quote unquote, Zoobie is the epitome of toxic
positivity. I was like.
What is that? I, I read it a few times.
I was like trying to understand it.
I was like, OK, so the criticism is that I am so positive that
it's toxic and apparently it negatively effects young people
because I'm so positive. I'm like, OK, I don't really
know how to square that one. But you know, I guess if that's
what people are throwing at you, then I guess you're doing pretty
well at that stage. Something that's really bugged
me Zoby over the last few years is the amount of black pulled
people that I see. Yeah, I 100% agree with you.
And it's been trending in that direction for a long time.
And I think the past decade has been, you know, it's been quite
relentless over the past decade. I feel like the the psyops have
been nonstop and there's just been a constant tension,
increased polarisation every single year from about 2015,
certainly up until 2024 and arguably up until now.
There's been a thing, right? There's been a current thing.
There's been something for people to be mad out, people to
be divided over, people to be fearful of.
And even when there's a temporary lull, seems like the
mainstream media and even a lot of people on social media
default back to certain narratives because there's
certain narratives that are just like you can always get people
jacked up over, right? So you've kind of got the IT
went from global cooling to global warming to climate change
to climate emergency to climate, does it right.
Like, so when there's a bit of a lull, it's like, OK, let's freak
people out about the climate again.
You know, the sun is too hot, the oceans are going to boil.
Everyone's going to die. We have 567 years to to sort it
out. Otherwise it's going to be over.
Or it can be, you know, the threat of another pandemic, or
it can be, well, you know, well, we're on the brink of nuclear
war and World War 3 is about to kick off.
The the truth is you can always, there's always a narrative.
There are always narratives that you can use to keep people
living in fear because the world is full of positive and negative
and it always has been. I mean, there's as long as human
beings have existed, you can look at any history book and
there has always been war. There's always been disease,
there's always been the threat of famine.
There's always been tribalism. There's always been that.
That's just the nature of the world.
Every single day, hundreds of thousands of people are born and
hundreds of thousands of people die.
And we're not really that conscious and aware of it for
the most part, unless it's close to home, right?
We don't sort of sense that about in an average year, sixty
60 million people die per year, 60 million, and I don't know how
many are born, maybe about 100 million, something like that.
And we're not really conscious of it.
We're not aware of it. Even when I say those
statistics, it doesn't really register in our brain because
they're such big numbers. It's just kind of like, OK, but
that's just the nature of the world.
So if you choose to focus on the negative, you're, there's an
infinite amount of negative to focus on.
Like you're not going to, you're especially if you're looking on
an international scale, you're, you're never going to find a
shortage of things to be upset about, things to be angry about,
things to be worried about, things to be outraged about.
But on the flip side, there's also so much beauty and so much
love and so much positivity in the world.
And I would actually say that the latter outweighs the former.
And the reason why I say that is because if it weren't the case,
I often make the point that I, I believe that most people are
decent or at least trying to be. Because I know there are some
people, you know, people who have been really black pilled,
like to believe that most people are bad and that you can't give.
Various. Yes, there that the majority of
people, over 50% of people have bad intentions or they're
malicious or they want to predate on you, something like
that. And I know for a fact that that
is not true. And the reason I know it's not
true is because no society, no neighbourhood, no community, no
nation would be able to remotely function if most people were
bad. If the average you, you wouldn't
be able to do anything. You wouldn't be able to walk
around, you wouldn't be able to drive, you wouldn't be able to
everything. Everything would, would just
break down. The reality is, you know,
there's a tiny percentage of people.
Sadly, and again, this has always been the case, there's a
small percentage of people who do most of the bad stuff.
All right. Especially if you look at
something like crime in most communities, like 1 to 2% of the
population is going to be doing 80 to 90% of all of the crime,
right? It might be like 1% of people do
like 99% of the murders in any given country in any given
community. That's just, that's just how it
goes. But I think because we're so
sensitive to negativity, probably as a survival
mechanism, that there's always an inclination to focus on the
scary stuff, on the bad stuff, on the negative stuff.
And if, but if you do that too long, then then you lose sight
of the goodness. And I think that's a dangerous
place to be because that is when you get, you know, to use the
term you said black pilled. And I think that's why I think
that's why so many people are on that path, because for so many
years there's they've just been all these narratives.
It's just being pushed it it. There just hasn't been a break.
There's been no, there's been no respite.
And due to the interconnected nature that we of the world we
now live in with social media and 24/7 news and just
information streaming in from everywhere, our brains are not
really wired to handle it like we're not meant to.
We're not meant to know so much there.
There's something great about the Internet being able to do,
for example, what we're doing right here, but our ancestors
were not dealing with a constant stream of information of not
just what's happening around them, but what's happening all
over the globe. No matter where you live,
whether you're in South Africa or the United Arab Emirates or
the UK or Australia, within minutes, you can be aware of
every bad thing that's happening.
And also you can see everyone's opinions about it and people's
arguing with each other and all this back and forth.
And we're, we're just not designed for it.
We've had this for what, 20 years, not even, not even 20
years. So our, our grandparents didn't
have to deal with this. Our great grandparents didn't.
None of our ancestors ever had to deal with this level of
information. And we're very new to it.
And I don't think most people are.
Most people aren't good at handling it.
And most people are also not good at setting the philtres so
that they can somewhat control we.
We all do have the ability to control it, but most people
aren't very good at doing that. And I think that because even
the the negativity and the outrage can still create a
dopamine hit. People can also get addicted to
negativity. People don't just get addicted
to positive feelings. People also can get addicted to
negative feelings. It's why doom scrolling exists,
right? People are quite literally
scrolling, scrolling looking for something that's going to anger
them, something that's going to trigger them, something that
they could react to and respond to the next person they can
shout out online. And you know, it just happens.
And oftentimes if you're a public figure, sometimes you'll
be that person, right? You're just that person who
comes across their feed at the time when they're feeling angry
and you know, they, they, they, they start smashing their
keyboard and, you know, yelling at you.
And sometimes you're a bit like, whoa, this is a bit of a, it's a
bit of a disproportionate response to, to what I was
saying, but it just comes with the territory, man.
So that's why in light of it all, I, I always strive to, I
try to, I try to bring a lot more light than any darkness
because you know, that that's been my goal for the past 20
years. It's it's why my music is
positive. It's why I try to keep my social
media generally upbeat. My, there's enough people out
there who are, if people are looking for the bad stuff there,
it's not hard to find. It's there, right?
It's there. I don't need to be adding to it
anymore. I'd much rather try to at least
in some way inspire, motivate people.
Yeah, I do my best, man. But Zooby, that's toxic.
All right, we've, we've now come to the conclusion we're trying
to uplift people and and see the good.
It's toxic. You know, you walk, you walk
through a through a field and you see a beautiful waterfall in
a rainbow. That's disgusting.
That is disgusting. I mean, that's, that's that's
how people have. I mean, this is what this is
what's happened now to society. You even what you've just said.
Now, I guarantee you somebody's going to have an issue with
something you said. Of course, absolutely.
And that's fine, you know, But that doesn't reflect on me, that
reflects on them. If you want to be you like
everything can be criticised. That waterfall in the rainbow
that you just talked about, there are people who would get
mad at you for mentioning that because you know what?
Like some people, you know, not everyone has access to
waterfalls and rainbows. There are children dying right
now. There are bombs dropping.
How dare you? How dare you appreciate that
when there are so many people suffering in the world?
Or you know what, you bigot? You're an ableist because some
people are blind and some people can't see.
Not everyone is able to. Some people have never been able
to see a rainbow. And you're a bigot because
you're appreciating this rainbow, being totally unaware
of the fact that some people are blind.
So how dare you, you know, or why a rainbow?
You know, some people would rather have a some people would
rather have a mountain. Some people would rather have
this, right. So, you know, you're saying you
like rainbows maybe. Does that mean that you hate
rivers? You know, like I, I don't know,
people are strange. You can say you like cats and
someone will accuse you of hating dogs and that's just how
some people are. But it's the Internet, you know,
I don't, I don't take it too seriously.
You have to have some humour in it.
But I wonder why it's become like that.
I mean, for all these warts, Jordan Peterson probably was
right about how the Internet has accelerated sociopathic
behaviour. Yes, I think it, I think it's
correct and it's exposed us to it because look, in the real
world we philtre who we interact with quite heavily actually.
You're not just like friends and acquaintances with everybody.
And on the Internet, if you put something out online, billions
of people have access to it. Literally billions of people you
could write a post on, whether it's a YouTube video or it's a
podcast or it's an ex post or an Instagram post or something on
Facebook. If you post it publicly, there
are billions of people who potentially have access to it.
Whereas in the real world, if you say something, you're having
a conversation, you, you're naturally filtering who you're
having those conversations with. And so you just get all sorts.
I mean, even online, I mean, it, it's kind of funny how we're
doing this because again, we are focusing on the small percentage
of very angry, very bitter, perhaps even sociopathic people
out there. But if I post something online,
I mean 90%, ninety to 95% of the comments and the reactions are
positive. It doesn't even matter what it
is, unless I'm posting something that's like very, very, very
controversial, 95% of my interactions are extremely
positive. But you know how it is, you get
100 comments and even if a hundred of them are saying great
job or that was awesome, or I like you or I respect you.
The one that stands out to us is the critical one or is the one
where someone is insulting or the one where someone is just
being nasty for, for no reason. That's just the way our brains
we're just, we're just naturally sensitive to it.
So it sort of stands out in the pile.
But you know, I, I don't want to people to get it twisted.
The vast majority of it is positive.
I'm sure with what you do, the majority of the feedback you get
is positive. You, I, I don't think you'd be
able to do what you do for as long as you've done it.
If the majority of the feedback you received was negative.
I, I don't think you'd be able to go for years and years.
I mean, you'd be, you'd be a bit like, why am I even doing this
if that were the case? So, you know, that's, that's,
that's how it is. And the bigger your audience is,
the more you get exposed to every single corner of the
Internet. There, there are types of human
beings that I didn't even know existed until I started using
social media and in particular when I started growing a bigger
platform because I'd see things and I'm like, I have never in
my, in the real world, I don't have conversations with people
like this. Like I don't come across this
type of person or this type of mentality.
But if a million people see something, then, you know, even
if just 0.1% of the people who see it are a little bit, are not
in, are not in a great state, that is still many, many
thousands of people. So, you know, it's just how it
goes. Yeah, but I mean, adding to what
you're saying, social media is also just a microcosm of the
real world. I'll tell you what, Jeremy, I've
been over. I've been to 45 countries now
and I have never. I've never been to a country
that was accurately represented by traditional or social media.
Never, not once. There's not one nation I've been
to where I'm like, oh, OK, this is totally in line with the
stuff I see, the stuff I've seen on the TV or read in the
newspapers or seen online. Because I often make the point
that normal doesn't go viral. Normal doesn't make the news
you're you're never going to see in the news.
Oh, it was a sunny day in Cape Town and everybody got on with
each other and people went to work and looked after their
families and like just live their life That that's not news.
But if something freaking crazy happens, right?
If in the city of millions of people, one person goes out
there and does something heinous or does something crazy, then
boom, that's what makes the news.
That's what goes viral. That's what's getting millions
and millions of eyeballs. So when that happens multiple
times and it doesn't matter the city, it doesn't matter the
country, it doesn't matter the region, that's what people see.
So there are people who 80% of what they see from South Africa
is negative, right? They're, they're, they could be
chilling in California and every time they see or they hear about
South Africa, it's something negative.
It's Oh my gosh, like, look at this, Oh my gosh, look at this
murder, look at this assault. Oh my gosh, this person just got
robbed. Oh my gosh, look at what this
politician just said. Look at that.
And it's different for you because you're, you're in the
country. So you see that, but you also
see the normal, you also see the good.
So you can, you can scale it in your brain and be like, OK, this
maybe this does exist or maybe this is a problem or this is a
threat, but there's also all of this.
So it's much more balanced. And it's the same in every
country. I mean, when I'm in the US, I'll
get people who are like, Oh my gosh, I'm seeing what's going on
in the UK. Like it looks crazy.
Like every, every time I see the UK in the news, it's, you know,
people being arrested over tweets or it's, it's it's
grooming great gangs or it's like this terrorist that, you
know, there was a terrorist attack some weeks ago or
whatever, because that's all they see.
And then if I'm in the UK and I'm talking to people, I'm like,
oh, yeah, I just came back from the US and they're like, Oh my
gosh. Like it's crazy there.
It seems like they're just having shootouts all the time.
All the police are racist. You can't even send the kids to
school because there's all these like school shooters and you
know, everything with, you know, Trump and this and this.
And it's just like I, I, I, it's, it's weird because I, I
travel a lot, right? And I've met, I meet people in
every country who are afraid to travel to other countries
because of this. So there are a lot of people
right now who I'm sure, like, I'm sure if I post it tomorrow,
like, hey, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to South Africa.
I'm going to go to South Africa for a week.
There will be people who are like, don't go, don't go, right?
Like I just saw such and so and they'll and they'll send me
links and they'll send me videos and they like do be like don't
go. If I say I'm going to the US, if
I say I'm going to Los Angeles, people like no, no, no, don't,
don't go to Los Angeles, right? Don't.
And it, it, it happens everywhere, like I live in
Dubai. And if, you know, you just
mentioned Dubai, people are like, Oh my gosh, like what
about this? And again, people will send you
articles. They'll find the worst things
that have happened in Dubai in the last 10 years and they'll
start sending you articles and links to try to prove to you
that it's dangerous or that you know something bad is going to
happen to you. And I'm just like, guys, there
is, you could do this for every country on the planet, right?
Except maybe like Vatican City or maybe like Liechtenstein or
somewhere with like 10 people. You, you can find hundreds, if
not thousands of, if not millions of horror stories.
Like this is just how it is. And I don't know, man, it's a,
it's a bit of a shame. But I I'd like to think that
every single day I at least can try to like nudge people in a
direction that's a bit more in line with reality.
And where people can feel like they can live their lives,
because one, one of the biggest problems with the black Pilling
is that it stops people from living their lives.
It's very similar to part of my problem with the whole pandemic
narrative from 2020 to 2022. They terrified people so much
that people stopped. People were so afraid of getting
sick that they stopped living right?
They so there are people who like for two to three years,
they basically put their life on hold.
They stopped seeing their friends, they stopped seeing
their family. They stopped showing their face
in public. Quite literally, they stopped
like all the travelling, all the hobbies, all the things that
they normally would do. They stopped.
And because they were so fearful, to this day, there are
still people living in fear because of COVID, which is
insane. Like life, life is to be lived.
And the reality is that everything in life has an
element of risk. Every single thing, it doesn't
matter, even even in action has risk.
If I say I'm not going to do anything, I'm just going to stay
in my just going to stay in my apartment and I'm not even going
to go outside that that has risk with it.
If I say I'm going to get in my car and drive somewhere, that
has a risk. If I say I'm going to travel
somewhere, if I'm going to meet up with someone, If you're going
to be in a relationship with someone, you're going to have
children there. Everything has risks.
There's risks to not having children, There's risks to
having children. There's risks to getting
married. There's risks to not getting
married. There's risks to travelling,
there's risks to not. It's just like, man, you know,
at the end of the day, you have to live your life.
And I don't recommend people take ridiculous risks that are
just reckless, right? People shouldn't be reckless.
And if someone's going to travel, I would always advise
like people to be, to be smart, especially if you're going
somewhere that's, you know, has got a bit bit more, you know, is
a bit more dangerous, for example, like take, take the
necessary precautions and be smart, but don't just be so
afraid of life and, and all the people in the world that you
just don't experience anything. I think it's sad for someone to
get to the age of, I don't know, 4050607080 and you've spent your
entire life just like in one little corner, literally and
figuratively, because you were so afraid or sceptical about the
rest of the world. It's a shame, I think I.
Mean there obviously is a degree of of healthiness in some
paranoia. I mean, you need to be a little
bit paranoid. Like if you, if you don't know
South Africa and you come here thinking that it's as safe as to
why you, you're a fool. Yes.
But it's not. Sorry, Carrie.
Go on, Carrie. No, I was going to say, but it's
not. It's not a Wild West.
Yeah, I I wouldn't even call that.
I wouldn't even call that paranoia though, Jeremy, because
paranoia is an extreme. Being paranoid is, is by
definition an extreme position. You should be cautious.
You should be vigilant. You should be St smarts, you
should be, you should be wise, but you don't need to be
paranoid. I mean, paranoid is those are
the people who are, you know, wearing 5 masks every day and
taking every single dose of vaccine and not going out.
Like that's paranoia. Like you're so that's the level
of paranoia, right? Normal precaution would just be
like, OK, like I'm going to go about my life and I'm just going
to take reasonable paranoia is refusing to drive a car or get
on a plane because you're afraid of car accidents and plane
accidents. That's paranoia.
Precaution is buckling your seat belt and driving carefully and
obeying the signs and just just being generally aware like that.
That's smart, but paranoia is paranoia is too far.
Paranoia stops you from living your life.
And it's very important to wake up in the morning with a sense
of purpose or meaning. Agreed 100%.
It's critically important because if you don't have that,
if if you don't have that, and everyone does, by the way, but
not everyone is tapped into it. But if you feel like you don't
have that, then that's where depression sets in.
And at an extreme end, that's when people, you know, develop
actual suicidal thoughts and tendencies.
Because ultimately you have to believe that the future has the
potential to be better than the present.
That's essentially what hope is. Hope is basically believing that
the future is going to be better than the present, so no matter
what you're going through, no matter what your life looks
like, you can keep on going because you have that hope.
Black Pilling, being black pilled is essentially an entire
removal of hope. And you just believe that, OK,
well, the future is going to be worse than the past and the
present no matter what I do, So therefore, why bother, Right.
That is that that's nihilism. It's just like, well, what's
the, what's the point? Like, what's the point of going
to work and making money? What's the point of being having
relationships and raising a family?
And like, what's the point of any of it if no matter what I
do, things are just going to crap anyway?
That's a very, very dangerous mindset for people to have.
Yeah, it's an awful mindset for people to have.
So I, I think it's imperative that those of us with a platform
and even those who don't, those who don't have a big platform,
just just guard against that. I think it's a temptation.
I think the demoralisation is one of the most powerful weapons
in the devil's arsenal. And I think part of the reason
is because it's very subtle. It's a very, it tends to be a
very slow and long process and it's very subtle.
It's not obvious in in your face and it causes you to defeat
yourself because if you don't, if, if you don't think you can
win, you've essentially already lost.
Like if you do not believe that you have the power and the
capability to improve your life or to do something that's
valuable in the world, then you, you're, you're kind of right,
right. Like whether you believe it or
you don't, you're, you're correct.
Does that make sense? Yes, but I mean, it's also
pointlessness and and which is a very, it's a very, very
unhealthy place to be. I mean, and to some degree
everybody gets Blackpooled at some point.
Like let's say somebody very close to you dies and then you
go, well, I don't understand. They were a good person that
shouldn't have died. Why do the bad people not die,
you know, and the good people get taken, that kind of thing.
We need to be realistic about the human condition.
And the human condition is that we're all born, we're all, we
all live. We don't know how much time.
If you're lucky, it might be, you know, at the absolute,
absolute, absolute extreme maximum, it'll be hundred 15120
years. More likely, it's going to be
more, more more likely it's going to be somewhere between,
let's say, 75 and 100. Yeah.
And and then we die. I personally believe in the
afterlife. I don't believe that this
relatively short time we have on this earth is the be all and end
all. There are people who believe
that. And of course, such people do
tend to be more prone to depression and anxiety and
nihilism. That's not my personal belief.
But ultimately, like that's, that's the human condition.
Everybody that we know and love is going to get sick and is
going to die. Everyone, everyone brothers,
sisters, parents, grandparents, sons, daughters, certainly as
parents, you know, you want to go, every parent wants to go
before their children do. Sadly, that does not always
happen. And that's the human condition.
And you you could look at that. I can totally empathise with how
someone could just look at the state of humanity and be like,
man, this is a bit of a raw deal.
Like this kind of sucks. Like we're born into the earth.
We don't choose to be born. We just are born into whatever
circumstances. And then life is tough and
there's accidents and there's crime and there's tragedies and
there's sickness and then we all die at the end of it.
I can see how someone could look at that in a shallow way and be
like, yeah, like what's the point of it all?
That is absolutely not my worldview, but I could see how
someone could look at it like that.
But I think we need to be realistic and then think, OK, to
me, I'm, I'm very, very conscious of mortality, very
hyper conscious of mortality. And that makes me more positive
and more motivated because I recognise I'm going to die and
everybody I know and I love and I care about is also going to
pass away. Like this is this is temporary.
We don't have this forever. When I talk to my family
members, especially, especially as they get older, right?
If you, if someone is listening to this and you're still blessed
to have your parents around, you're still blessed to, you
know, have your, I don't have, thankfully my, I have my parents
still with me. All of my parents, all of my
grandparents have passed away. Probably about 50% of my uncles
and aunties have passed away, but of course, new life has come
into the family as well. And I just recognise like, you
know, we don't have this forever.
So treat people well, don't hold grudges.
If you've got a dream, if you've got something that you want to
achieve, like what, what are you waiting for?
What are you, what are you procrastinating for?
Like go out, go out there and do it because we, we don't have
forever. I, I hope and I pray and I do my
best to make sure that I'm going to be alive for the next several
decades, but it's not guaranteed.
I know many people, I've had friends, I've had family members
who didn't make it to my age. Most of us have that right.
And the older you get, the more death that you see.
And so I think if you are cognizant of that and you sort
of frame it the right way, it becomes a bigger motivator to to
do things and to live your life with meaning and with purpose
and to actually treat people kindly because you recognise,
you know what, like this, this is just temporary.
Every time I interact with someone, there is some
probability that it's the last time I'll interact with them.
That, that, that that's, that's possible, right?
That that's possible. And so therefore I'm not into
like holding stupid grudges or like just being mad and
resentful at people over like some really minor thing.
I'm just like, whatever I, I don't have, I don't have the
time or the energy for that. If someone wants to feel that
way towards me, that's a shame. And I, I hope that they don't,
but I'm not going to give them a good reason to and I'm not going
to hold that the other way towards them.
I'm sure there's someone out there who's got like holding
some grudge against me and I don't even know why.
And they're kind of stewing on it.
Then I'm not conscious because you're.
Positive. It's because you're positive and
that's toxic. Yeah, it's, it's a weird one,
man. It's a weird one.
Like, I don't know, I like to think, I would like to believe
that I generally have a healthy mindset and I don't, I don't
know how common that is. And so I like to at least
explain to people and kind of show people what I think and
why, why I think and believe what I think and believe because
I do believe that it serves me well.
I think it serves the people who are around me well.
I think it serves my audience and my followers well because
there's also a lot of responsibility with it, man.
I mean, it's, it's kind of crazy to think that there are over 2
million people have voluntarily chosen to follow me online on
one of these platforms. That's a lot of people.
And with that, it's a lot of responsibility.
It's one thing when you're kind of posting into the into the
ether and no one is, no one is paying attention, no one is
reading, no one is listening, no one is watching.
But when you know, hey, like there are millions of people of
all ages from children up until elderly people who are on a
daily basis, at least on a weekly basis or paying attention
somewhat to what you're doing. I, I, I take that with a level
of seriousness. And it doesn't mean that I
censor myself or I try to sort of play to the audience or crowd
or something. But I, it, it doesn't mean that
I'm just conscious and I'm aware that I can use this platform.
I can use my words to actually cause quite significant damage
or do significant good. And I do my best to, I do my
best to do the latter. I'm not, I'm not perfect.
Nobody is, but you know, if you give, imagine that you're
standing in front of, imagine you're in like an arena or
you're outside and you have an audience of 1010 thousand,
50,100 thousand, 1,000,000. However many people see your
things online, right over the course of a year, like let's say
1,000,000 people, let's say 2 million people see your stuff.
Imagine like actually standing in front of that many people, 2
million, that's the size of a small nation.
All right. Imagine having those people in
front of you. Like what would you want to say
to them? Would you want to black pill
them? Would you want them to turn turn
against each other or turn against themselves?
Or would you want to, you know, teach them something or give
them a motivational message or just encourage them, Right,
right. What would you want to say to
them? So that's the way that I kind of
think of the audience that I do have.
It's weird because we're just on our phones or on our keyboards
and you, you can't see the people.
You sort of see the metric of, you know, X number of followers,
but and you can see the views and you can see how many
downloads and whatever it is. But I think if you imagine
these, these are all real people, like these are actual
human beings scattered around the earth.
If they were all in a room, I mean, that would be quite
terrifying to begin with. But yeah, what would I want to
tell them? What would be my message?
And so I, I, I do my best to think of it that way.
And when I, when I am veering off of it, I try to kind of come
back to what I'm saying here and really think again, if I all
right, what am I, what am I actually doing here?
Like, why am I, why am I standing here?
Why am I tweeting? Why am I podcasting?
Why am I writing? Why, why am I even doing this?
And that helps me to kind of recenter on my mission, which is
ultimately to positively inspire and motivate people.
And and also I'd say kind of just keep, keep people, try to
keep people grounded in reality as well in light of all the
things that we've been saying. A great way to UN Blackpool
yourself is having a child. Yes, because then suddenly
everything about life changes. Well, it's the embodiment of
hope, isn't it? I mean, part of the reason
you're, you're, you've probably seen a lot of people now talking
and I, you know, I've, I talked quite a bit about the, the fact
that pretty much every economically developed country
now has a, has a negative birth rate.
And one of the points that is rarely brought up is just the,
the impact of the black Pilling. The ultimate black Pilling is
the ultimate black Pilling is deciding consciously and
intentionally not to reproduce because you don't want to bring
children into quote unquote, this kind of world.
That is the ultimate that if you think, think of how deep that
is, like Satan has won at that point.
Like that is like the devil has won.
If the devil has convinced you, that has demoralised you to the
point that I'm not talking about infertility, I'm not talking
about like I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about people who are consciously and explicitly,
actively saying I do not want to have children.
Why? Because I don't want to bring
them into this dark evil world. None of your ancestors who are
in your blood. Like if you think about every
single one of us walking this planet, we are part of an
unbroken chain of reproduction going back thousands, millions,
I don't know, however many years, whatever, however long
human beings have been around, we're part of an unbroken chain.
And so think you're so black peeled.
You're going to be the one. You're going to be the one who's
like, I'm ending this chain. It ends with me, right?
Your parents reproduced, your grandparents reproduced, your
great grandparents, your great great grandpa all the way, all
the way all the way back. And you're going to be the
person now in 2025 who's like, the buck stops with me.
It's over. That is like the ultimate black
Pilling. And millions of people in a lot
of different countries have come to that conclusion.
And I'll tell you what's even more absurd about it, Jeremy, is
that you cannot objectively tell me that we are worse off than
our great grandfathers and our great, great grand, right?
Like, come on, like what? You think survival now is harder
than it was 100 or 200 or 300 years ago?
Absolutely not. You think that there's more war
and more famine and more like whatever it is that is scary.
We actually pretty much have less of it now than we did
before. Even if you just go back 100
years, which isn't in the grand scheme of things that long ago.
Think of life in 1925 versus life in 2025.
And I would much, I'm much if, if I had a choice of choosing in
which era I could live despite all the problems that we have, I
would certainly pick 2025. And so, yeah, it's a, it's, it's
a big psyop and it's a, it's a shame.
Well a friend of mine asked me a few months ago if I would go
back to 2019 and I thought about it and my answer is no I
wouldn't. I'm happier post COVID.
Yes. Do you know what as well?
If you went back to 2019, it still means that you have to
live through 2020-2021. All you're doing is you're just
hitting rewind and then you're going to live through that crap
anyway. So like, you know, if you went
back, it means you're going to go through it all again.
No, but but you get what the meta question is.
I I do, but what I think of it, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, well,
that's not really a good question because I'm like, well,
you're not going to be, you're not going to be frozen in 2019,
all right? Time is still going to progress
and then you're going to go through all that garbage again.
So yeah, I'd rather be on the opposite end of it.
But I mean, just adding to the points you were making earlier,
one of the other Blackpool issues that that also bugs me a
lot actually, is this thing about being a gatekeeper or
controlled opposition. Have you heard, have you heard
these? Have you had these terms thrown
at you? It's ridiculous, of course,
because, because if you don't believe 100% of what that person
believes, you are therefore a gatekeeper.
You know, it's, it's the weirdest thing that you need to
be a mirror image of somebody in order to be, in their mind,
pure. Yeah.
And do you know, what I think has happened as well is, and I
said this at the time, and I think it's still proving to be
true now that we're a few years past it, a lot of people haven't
a lot, most people, I would say most people, I wouldn't even say
a lot of people, I would say the majority of people have not 100%
recovered from the COVID era. Regardless of whether someone
was like a true believer, 500 masks, 10 vaccines or a complete
sceptic, everybody is permanently changed.
People, people have lost trust. People have lost the ability to
tell. Truth from fiction to know who
to trust and to know who to try. A, a lot of stuff was damaged in
that time. Like people tend to focus on
the, the, the economics and the numbers, the, the things that
you can measure, right? There's the stats and the data.
People tend to focus on that. They don't tend to focus on the
psychological and societal impact of such a thing.
And something I've certainly found is on the more sceptical
side, right? On the side of the people who
are more questioning or in opposition to say, the lockdowns
and the mandates and all the narrative and so on, right?
I certainly fall on that front. It also can cause a type of like
psychosis or paranoia. So you have on one end where the
people who are just terrified of like the disease itself, right?
You have like the extremes on that and the we know the types
2020-2021 like the people who wanted to like we're.
All We're all going to kill Granny.
Yes, right. That's one form of hysteria, but
there's also another form of hysteria on the other end,
right. And neither, neither of those
sides of people have have recovered particularly well.
And part of the reason is because we, we never got any
answers, right. There was, there was no
accountability, nobody ever, you know, from the origin, from the
origin of the thing itself to the reason why the nation's
responded why they did and the reason why all these politicians
did what they did, the vaccine manufacturers, all we we still
don't really have any answers. Nothing's happened.
Yeah, no, no, nothing's happened.
There's been no accountability. Putin invaded Ukraine and people
just kind of switched the narrative and like, started
talking about something completely different.
So we never quite got those answers.
I know for a fact I I'm changed because of it.
I'm not as trusting of the average person as I used to be,
I don't think. Yeah, me too.
Me too. Yeah, exactly right.
So I, I, I'm not, I'm not excluding myself when I say that
everybody has changed somewhat. And I think that's part of it.
So I think with the people who are like more on the sceptical,
like the sceptical end of it. And there are degrees to that.
So much trust was broken that they, they quite literally don't
know who to trust. So someone who is on the very
far end of that, they might be hearing me talking right now and
they're like, he's like, you know, he must be on, you know,
he's, he must be one of the, I don't know what part, I don't
know who's funding him or what organisation he's part of or
like this or this, but he's got to be.
He's controlled opposition, yeah.
Like, dude, I, I, I, I've, I've heard it all right.
I've heard I'm part of this group.
I'm part of that group. I'm secretly funded by this
person. I'm talking and, and you know,
and it, it's just like, boy, like, you know, take, as Michael
Malice says, right? Take one or two red pills, but
don't, don't take the entire, right, like don't take the
entire container because then you, you, you, you can't like,
like you can't trust anybody. Anyone who's not like as extreme
as you and as mistrusting is, you suddenly now becomes your
enemy and you can't even have allies because it's just like,
Nope, I can't trust. I can't trust anyone.
And that's just, that's just as limiting a position as the
person who is wearing 3 masks and holed up in their apartment
in a bubble because they don't want to, they don't want to,
they don't want to catch COVID. Like it's just as it's, it's
just as soul damaging because you, it just breaks the human
interaction. And you, it's good to have some
degree of scepticism, right? Like I'd be, I'd be the first to
say that, but there are levels. And when you're just going to
start inventing narratives in your head and connecting dots
that don't even exist because you are so deep down, I think
it's time to, you know, just come up for some air and go
outside in the world and live your life and you'll, you'll,
you'll see it's OK. Yeah, go for a walk, have a
glass of whiskey or something. Yeah, yeah, or or in your case
non alcoholic. Non alcoholic?
Yeah. Go to the gym.
How? Long.
How long has that been now? No drinking.
Yeah. I last had a drink 15 years ago.
Yes, that is inspiring. Yeah, yeah, My last drink I was
23. It's.
My voice. Oh, really?
I really, I mean, come on, you've been here.
I love, I love a glass of wine. I got it's very, it's a glass of
wine of ice. I don't think so.
Anyway, I want to just quickly horseshoe back to what you were
saying earlier because it is, it made me think of of when I
travelled to China last year. And this is the it's just so
absurd. I come back and I go, you know
what guys? It's not what you think it is.
It's not what you see in the media.
German working for China, germs funded by China.
It's ridiculous. You can't win.
Zoe, you can't. Win.
No, no, you, you can't. You're just supposed to sit in
your house and tweet angrily and write angry YouTube comments and
be mad on Reddit and just, yeah, like don't.
Is it? Is it at all possible?
Is it at all possible that China is not this totalitarian
communist hell hole that that that X has made it out to be?
Well, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's a bit better than
that. No, no, you can't say that.
You can't say that. I'll tell you something else
I've noticed Jeremy is that most people, it doesn't matter
whether they're British, American, South African, Saudi
Arabian, Nigerian, it doesn't matter Chinese, most people
would not like outsiders to judge their nation based on its
government. Most people don't want that.
Absolutely the the typical American would not like it if
does not like it when or would not like it if non Americans
based their view on the USA and Americans based on the actions
of the gut their governments over the past few decades.
And most Americans would say that that is not an accurate
gauge of the USA. And this is true of all
countries. However, when it comes to
looking at other nations, particularly ones you have not
been to, people like to judge them based not just on their
government, but the worst aspects of their government.
OK, so if if you said, you know what, I went to China and I had
a great time and people were nice and the cities were
beautiful, someone will be like, well, Oh my gosh.
But like the CCP did this and this and this and you're like,
well, I'm not talking about the I'm not talking about the
Communist Party. I'm talking about like the
country, like the 1.2 billion people and all of these cities
and the countryside and the food and the culture and all of that.
And so I find that people use like very unjust scales when it
comes to their own nation versus other ones.
OK, Like imagine if someone said I, I don't know, like if someone
were to just think of like the USA is a great example because
the US government is involved in like everything.
They've got all their 800 military bases around the world
and pretty much every foreign conflict that you can name,
they're somehow involved in it. So if someone was like, you know
what? I don't like the USA or
Americans because of like it's not hard to it's not hard to
list the sins of the American government over the last few
last century. But I think some it would be
reasonable to say like, you know what?
Like that's not really a fair like.
I mean, we can firstly ask the question of how well the
government even represents the population.
I'd say in most countries not particularly well.
And I'd also say that we as citizens know that we don't
really have all that much control over it.
Even in a so called democracy. It's not like I'm, it's not like
I have a say or power over what the Prime Minister of the UK
decides to do or what the parliament does.
Like I have 0 control over it. So I would find it pretty crazy
if someone decided that they don't like British people or
they hate the UK because, I don't know, Tony Blair got
involved in the Iraq war or whatever.
Or we can go back further colonisation, right?
Like that's a big one. So that's why I'm in South
Africa. Yeah, it is like, like, I didn't
do that, you know what I mean? Like, like, hopefully it's kind
of obvious, right? But like, I wasn't like exactly
involved in you. You can only reach the people
that you can reach. And everyone's on a different
time scale. There are some people who
there's, they're just going to be ignorant their entire lives
and they're just not interested in learning.
They're not interested in expanding their mind, certainly
not changing their mind. And you just kind of have to
like chalk that up as a lot but as a loss.
But, but there are billions of people.
There are so many people out there who are genuinely
intellectually curious and they're at least somewhat open
minded and they're interested in learning about the world and
different countries and different types of people.
And I would say that I would like to think that that's the
majority of people. And so those people you can at
least, even if they're not going to like agree with you totally,
you can at least offer a different perspective.
So that they, I, I, I like to think of people's worldview as
like, as like a resolution knob. And one reason why I like travel
and I encourage people to travel is because I believe it
increases your resolution. OK, so before you went to China,
you have like a fuzzy, you have a fuzzy low resolution view of
what it's like. You have some idea because
you've probably read some stuff, you've probably met people from
there. You've probably.
CNN doesn't lie. No, but, but you have some view,
but it's low resolution. And then you travel there and
you know the more you spend time and the more you actually meet
people and go around, you increase the resolution.
Before I ever went to South Africa, first time I stepped
foot in the country was 2023. Before I ever went to South
Africa, I had some, I had an idea of it.
I've met, I went to school and have friends from South Africa.
I've read about the country. I've looked up to different
cities on Wikipedia or on YouTube and seen people travel.
Like I've spoken to people from there.
But then actually being there, going to Johannesburg, going to
Cape Town, spending a few weeks in the country and then going
back another time. You know, my, my view is more, I
have a better resolution view. It's not as good as yours.
You live there, you're from there.
So you have a higher resolution view of South Africa than than I
do? Absolutely.
But I have a higher resolution view than someone who's never
stepped foot in the nation and they're just seeing a few things
passing by, maybe on their Instagram feed here and there.
And that's why I think it's good for people to travel, not not
just abroad, but even within your own country, even within
your own country. There's a lot to see, there's a
lot to learn. There's different cultures,
there's different types of people.
And at a minimum, you can at least just get a better
understanding of the world. You might still decide that, you
know, you are totally happy where you are and living the way
that you want to live, but at least you can understand how
other people live and why they believe what they believe, why
they do the things that they do. And, and you can also see that,
you know, human beings are, we do have a lot of differences in
many ways, individually and collectively.
But when you travel a lot and you've met a lot of people, you
do realise like most people want quite similar things.
Most people are. People don't want, yeah, most
people don't want to fight. No.
Oh, absolutely not. Again, if they did you, if they
did, civilization wouldn't function.
You. You wouldn't be able to do
anything. Like you, you, you really would
not be able to function if most people were aggressive or
criminal or violence or like you wouldn't be able to do anything.
You just have to stay in your house and huddle up with a bunch
of guns in a bunker, like waiting for someone to come and
attack you. And fortunately, you know, we
maybe there's a time and a place for that, but that's not a
that's not an everyday scenario. You know, not a lot of people
have been to North Korea for obvious reasons.
But I would imagine that most people in North Korea are like,
you know, like decent hard working people.
Like I'd imagine, I'd imagine they're not, I'd imagine they're
not that different to South Koreans.
They're probably just, they're obviously they're going to be
more, more ignorant and naive about the world because of the
actions of their government. But they're still people.
They probably want to work. They probably want to look after
their kids. They probably want to get
married and find love. You know, they probably want to
eat food and drink clean water and just do normal human things.
I kind of want to go there though.
It's like a weird bucket list thing.
North Korea. Yeah, I hear that.
I know a couple people who have been.
I know one person all I mean, I know of, I mean I've spoken to
him, but I don't he's not like a friend, but I mean, I don't know
really of anybody. I think Michael Mattis, you
mentioned earlier, he's been there.
Yeah, he's been. Yeah, I would like to, I'll tell
you that. Like that's one of the only
countries in the world where I might not go like as in as in
it's it's, it's probably, it might be the only country where
due to like genuine safety concerns, I'd be like, yeah,
maybe like I just maybe I just wouldn't go there.
I don't know, though. I'm like you.
I have a bit of a morbid curiosity about it.
Like I'd say literally every, every other country in the
world, I'd be like, yeah, I'd go there.
Like if someone gave me a free ticket, there's places that I
wouldn't go just kind of like solo by myself without knowing
the lay of the land, right. But if it's like, OK, cool.
Like someone could show me around and I'd have some, you
know, in some places, I guess actual security.
But in other places, just like guidance, you know, there's most
places I travel, you know, by myself, whatever others, I'm
like, yeah, I travel with some precautions, like we were saying
earlier, but yeah, North Korea. But I, I, you know what I'd
actually say that it would fall into the second category.
Like if I could be, if I would know that, OK, I'm not going to
be like imprisoned or like I, I don't, I don't know, like, like
if I could be if, if, if it could be guaranteed that I'm not
going to like get kidnapped by their government or something,
then I'd be like, yeah, absolutely I'd go.
But I do know that if you visit it, you can't, you, you can't
just kind of like travel around. It's all regimented and
regulated. You can't even leave the hotel
without permission. So yeah, I and you can only go
to the capital, right? You're not allowed to leave the
capital. So I don't know how much of A
theatre be able to see. Yeah, it would be curious to
actually go to like the smaller towns and villages and stuff,
but I don't think you can as a foreigner.
Something that I live by is a is a quote by Bruce Lee, and it
really feeds into what you've been talking about in this
conversation and that it goes something like this.
Take that which is valuable, discard that which is not, and
create what is uniquely yours. That's an interesting Bruce Lee
quote, because there's something I say that's very similar and I
I didn't invent it, but I often say eat the meat, spit out the
bones. So it's kind of, yeah, it's kind
of the same thing, right? Like take, take what you need
and discard of what is not, what is not helpful to you.
I think I have quite a lot of them.
Something I when it comes to interacting with other people, I
certainly always assume that I can learn something from
everybody. So I, I don't approach
conversations or interactions with the assumption that I know
it. It doesn't matter if the person
is older than me, younger than me, whatever.
Like there's five year olds who can teach me things.
So I always assume like you can learn something from everybody.
And so in some cases it'll be, you know, if the person is a
complete train wreck, it might be like learning what not to do
and learning how not to interact and how not, you know, learning
what a terrible mindset is and making sure you don't have it.
But you know, even on a more positive front, there's so much
knowledge in the world and there's so many experiences.
And everyone has, all of us have only ever lived our own lives,
all right, Since since we're born until the day we die, we
can only ever be us. And so for that reason, I'm
genuinely intrigued by people. Like everybody has a story.
Some people aren't great at telling it because they almost
like don't realise they have a story.
But I, I, I would like to believe that most people in the
world are interesting. Like it doesn't matter.
Like anyone you, you have a conversation with, if you are a
good conversationalist and you're an interested person,
then other people become interesting, right?
You can just talk to your taxi driver or your Uber driver or
the person cleaning the hotel that you're staying in or like
the person selling fruit in the market.
What I like, they've all got they, they, they don't just have
a story, they have stories. Everybody's got stories like,
you know, where did they grow up?
What was their family like their childhood?
Do they have children or not? If they do, like those are more
stories like, you know, what are your children doing?
Like what are they up to? Where have you travelled to?
What languages do you speak? Oh, interesting.
How did you learn to speak? Why do you speak that language?
Like people are infinitely fascinating and that's
definitely something I live by. And I think it keeps me quite
open minded and I think it's led me to some of the conclusions
that I believe around about the world and I believe about human
beings. And also it's just fun.
I tend to view the world a little bit as a playground.
I think that again, maybe this is a through line through a lot
of things that we've been talking about, which is that,
you know, something, something interesting with children as
well. Like, you know, we're both, you
know, we're, we're both new fathers And I have I've been an
uncle for 18 years. I have I have 10 nieces and
nephews. So I'm glad I got to experience
being an uncle for, you know, many times over before being a
father. And it's kind of interesting
with, you know, children, anyone who's spent time with children,
whether it's your own or other people's, they have, they have
such a like a, a joy of life and they're just infinitely curious
and they want to know everything.
And they want to ask why and what and how.
And they want to know how things work.
And everything that they see is new.
And it's exciting. And I think it's important as we
grow older and as we mature to maintain, to maintain some of
that, to maintain some of that wonder and some of that
curiosity. I, I think people get boring
when they lose all of it. Like naturally, as you mature
and you take on responsibilities and you become a little bit more
cynical and street smart and wise about the world, You're not
going to have the same level of wonder as a, as a, as a four
year old and you shouldn't. But it's, it's good to maintain
a little bit of it and it keeps you creative.
It keeps you wanting to go on adventures and to do things
because I think it's very easy to, it's very easy to stagnate.
It's very easy to get to your late 20s or your 30s, certainly
your 40s, and just kind of like ossify and never do anything new
anymore and not try anything and not go anywhere and not meet any
new people. And I don't think that's
generally good, right? You don't need to be like hyper
extroverted if that's not your natural wiring, but I think it's
always good to be. Learning new things and trying
new things and meeting new people, going to new places and
just looking around the world and just appreciating it.
It's it's part of why it's good to you know, when people say go
touch grass, I know it's often said quite flippantly, but there
there's something to that. Like just going out in nature,
whether you like the mountains or the desert or lakes or rivers
or the forest, just being out there and just kind of looking
at it all. And you're just like, man, this
is, this is, this is cool. Like this, this is, this is
pretty magnificent. This is pretty wonderful.
This is pretty exciting. And you can kind of
intentionally tap into it. And that's something I certainly
try to do. And, you know, every year I'm
always trying to be, no, I'm always trying new things, trying
to learn new stuff, trying to get better in some way, trying
to learn about something. And yeah, why not?
Why not? How can I follow your toxic
positivity? Well, the first one is I just
started as I just started a sub stack a couple of weeks ago.
So I want people to subscribe to me on Sub stack.
If you go to real talk with zubi.com, then you can find my
writings and my articles. I'm doing more long form writing
over there and then on all social media at Zubi Music, ZUBY
Music, you can find me on everything.
Are you still recording? I am.
I actually recorded a couple of feature verses for some other
artists projects quite recently, and I'm going to be releasing
some new music of my own this year.
I've written a few new songs. I haven't recorded them yet, but
they're written and there's more to come.
So yeah, music is. Sometimes I put it on pause
while I'm doing other things, but I haven't.
I haven't stopped rapping or stopped making music or fallen
out of love with it or anything like that.
It's just been on pause for a while.
But 100% new music is coming this year.
All right, Zubi, thank you for joining me in the trenches.
God bless you, Jeremy, I appreciate it.