1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,800 Good afternoon. It's Friday the 5th of December 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,640 2025, just after 1:00. Welcome to UK called News. 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,239 I'm your host Mike Robinson and my Co host in the studio today, 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,320 Patrick Henningson. Welcome to the program, Patrick. 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,800 Great to be with you, Mike. And we'll be joined today by 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,840 journalist Tim Norman. Later in the program, we're 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,200 going to be covering the Eurovision Song Contest. 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:27,640 We're going to be looking at censorship. 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,120 We'll have a Ukraine update, the latest on potential military 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,160 action in Venezuela, and well, news of a very big donation to 11 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:39,120 reform. But we're going to begin with 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,920 the Don Sturgis Inquiry report. Now, just as a reminder, in 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,840 March 2018, the British regime accused Russia of using a 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,480 weapons grade chemical weapon to poison former KGB agent Sergei 15 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:54,000 Skripal and his daughter Yulia. Uh, several months later, 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,960 Charlie Rowley is said to have found a bottle of expensive 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,360 perfume and to have given it to his girlfriend Dawn Sturgis, who 18 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,560 fell ill, uh, when she sprayed the perfume on her wrists. 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,280 Uh, she subsequently died and well, the clamour from the 20 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,040 British regime is that the bottle contained enough novichok 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,040 to kill thousands of people. Now the inquiry into Don Sturgis 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,280 death was led by Lord Hughes. You just saw on screen there. 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,200 So let's have a quick listen to a little bit of what he said 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,000 when he was introduced. Good afternoon. 25 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,520 For those who haven't been at earlier hearings, I'm Anthony 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:34,720 Hughes, and this has been an inquiry into the untimely death 27 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:41,440 of Dawn Sturgis. It was established in March 2022 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,120 when I was appointed to chair it. 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,120 So, in summary, the conclusion of the report is that Dawn 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,720 Sturgis died an innocent victim of an attempt by officers of a 31 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,840 Russian state organization to conduct an assassination on the 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:05,800 streets of Salisbury using a highly toxic nerve agent. 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,560 The conduct of Petrov and Boshirov and their Gru superiors 34 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,600 and those who authorized the mission, up to and including, as 35 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,000 I found, President Putin, that conduct was astonishingly 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,800 reckless. There is a direct causal link 37 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,920 between the actions of all those individuals and Dawn Sturgis's 38 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:42,480 death, and they, and only they, bear moral responsibility for 39 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:51,430 it. So I'd like to welcome Tim 40 00:02:51,430 --> 00:02:55,030 Norman to the program. And Tim, I suppose my first 41 00:02:55,030 --> 00:03:00,950 question is, is there a direct causal link between the death of 42 00:03:00,950 --> 00:03:05,720 Dawn Sturgis and an alleged Novichok attack in Salisbury? 43 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,120 Well, they're all hinges on the question of this bottle. 44 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,280 That's the causal link that the UK establishments and Lord 45 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,080 Hughes is trying to make, because this is the bottle that, 46 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,280 as he said in the introduction, allegedly was picked up by Dawn 47 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,640 Sturgis's boyfriend and given to her. 48 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,240 But it's it's, you know, it's very important that to 49 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,400 understand that his testimony is the sole foundation of this 50 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,080 entire narrative whereby he picks up a bottle, gave it to 51 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,000 Dawn, she sprayed herself, which is a question in itself. 52 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,800 When you think about a chemical weapon, would you really spray 53 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:45,840 that? But that is a narrative. 54 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,360 And then she died and he calls the ambulance. 55 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,880 That entire section of story belongs only to Charlie Rowley. 56 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,840 And Charlie Rowley is a admitted alcoholic and a heroin addict 57 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,760 and indeed a convicted petty criminal whose previous 58 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,520 girlfriend, two years in the before, had died of a heroin 59 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,560 overdose in his flat, in his presence. 60 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,800 He just put her to bed, knowing her that, knowing that she'd 61 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,280 taken a heroin overdose and she died. 62 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,320 So he didn't appear before the inquiry. 63 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,600 And this is really the critical factor. 64 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,040 I think that shows how the inquiry sort of failed to store 65 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,520 the surgeon's family in in many respects, because he's the key 66 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,520 witness and the inquiry simply failed to produce him. 67 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,080 I would suggest because if they did, everyone would see for 68 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,480 themselves that he's an extremely unreliable witness and 69 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,520 the narrative had a very very shaky foundations. 70 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,840 If for him not appearing at the inquiry. 71 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,800 Beg pardon, sorry. What reason did they give that 72 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,360 he did not appear at the inquiry? 73 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,760 Health issues he's, you know, apparently had his memory 74 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,440 affected by Novichok. And so the inquiry has to rely 75 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,040 on 6 year old transcripts of police interviews that he gave 76 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,400 at the time. And there's some of them are 77 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,360 sort of bordering on a comical there's the police are 78 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,440 effectively trying to suggest to him that he found this bottle. 79 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,680 They don't really know. He doesn't know where he denies 80 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,600 he doesn't recognise the packaging when it's showed him 81 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,600 in the first instance. He says, I think I found it on 82 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,800 the floor. It might have fallen in my 83 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,160 pocket. It could have been in Amesbury, 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,480 it could have been Salisbury. I don't know. 85 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,680 He just simply has a bank on it. Yeah, yeah. 86 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,480 OK. Well, look, we we will come back 87 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,080 to the the bottle a little bit later. 88 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,960 But I suppose the next question is this because the inquiry 89 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:32,200 nearly didn't happen and the result, well perhaps the result 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:33,760 of it demonstrates that it shouldn't have. 91 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:40,000 But but anyway, the question is why did the inquiry nearly not 92 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,800 happen? Because you have a couple of of 93 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,400 articles here. This is BBC from 2020. 94 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,960 Is that scope of Novichok victims inquest must be 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,320 reconsidered. And but also there's another one 96 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,960 here from Sky News which is saying that the home Secretary 97 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,800 had effectively, sorry, Home secretary had effectively put a 98 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,160 secrecy order on the Salisbury inquiry. 99 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,920 So, So what? How did how did this inquiry 100 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,520 actually come about in the first place? 101 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,800 Well, that's it. I mean, when you hear Lord 102 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,520 Hughes speaking as we just did, you'd be forgiven for thinking 103 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,440 that the British establishment established this inquiry purely 104 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,200 to help the Sturgis family understand what happened to 105 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,480 their loved 1 and in interest of transparency and, you know, due 106 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,160 process and justice and so forth. 107 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,040 But in fact, what happened is the original coroner in 2019 is 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,520 called David Ridley. He was Wiltshire's chief 109 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:41,320 coroner, held a very limited inquest and he said I don't want 110 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,880 to investigate Russian state culpability in Dawn Sturgess's 111 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,880 death and I'm not going even going to investigate the 112 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,520 provenance of the Novichok, where this Novichok chemical 113 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,040 weapon allegedly came from. And so the family objected to 114 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,440 this. And with Michael Mansfield, the 115 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,240 barrister, they took the Home Office to court effectively. 116 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,080 And that's what that first slide shows. 117 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,040 It's that they won. They won their case against 118 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,400 against the government effectively. 119 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,800 And that's what forced the government to set up this 120 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,720 inquiry. Of course, there are even public 121 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,920 inquiries that you can hold sessions and secrets behind 122 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,240 closed doors, unlike A coroner's inquest, which actually is fully 123 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,120 transparent and held completely in in the, if you like, in the 124 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,040 public eye and then sorry. Go ahead, I was. 125 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,840 Just going to say then. So then once the and it took 126 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,320 years before the inquiry as we know it took seven years really 127 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,160 from Dawn's deaf and till the hearings. 128 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:39,120 And yes, Priti Patel, the Home Secretary back in 2022, made 129 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:45,040 certain that even before, you know, the Chair was able to look 130 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,320 at the documents, there would be documents as that were redacted 131 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,280 from the Chair, even from Lord Hughes and prevented from being 132 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,360 shown to the Sturgis family. Which goes to show how genuinely 133 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,480 committed this inquiry was to actually getting to the truth as 134 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,560 far as the Sturgis family is concerned. 135 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,120 Have you any thoughts on that just before we move on? 136 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Tim, you know, it's just incredible. 137 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,720 It just strikes me that we have the longest running criminal 138 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,200 investigation in British history. 139 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,840 We have no evidence signed off by any judge. 140 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,840 We have no murder weapon. We have really no confirmed 141 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,560 crime scene. We have no chief witness and we 142 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,280 have, well, initially we didn't have a, a dead victim from Nova 143 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,960 Chalk, but it seems like Don Sturgis has been in a way kind 144 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,840 of moved into this position. If if, if we look at the just 145 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,960 the lack of the cohesiveness of the case that's being made here 146 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,800 and the lack of any criminal due process from this, it almost 147 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:50,440 seems like they Don Sturgis is an incidental accessory to shore 148 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,880 up a narrative that Novichok is, you know, a deadly nerve agent 149 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,720 because it apparently we're told it didn't kill the script pals. 150 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,680 And by the way, where are the script pals? 151 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,760 We'll get to that in a moment. But Tim, where this isn't 152 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,680 really, it's incredible that this hasn't really gone through 153 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,680 any real criminal legal or criminal due process. 154 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,920 Well, that's right. In fact, this, you know, a 155 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,560 strange, strange inquiry is as close as the establishment 156 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:22,520 prepared to go. So it's a sort of false trial, 157 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,880 if you'll and people back in when the Skripals were allegedly 158 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,520 poisoned in March 2018, as you say, they weren't killed and 159 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,640 Yulia recovered. We can go into a bit more detail 160 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,480 about that later, maybe. And then and then Sergey 161 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,400 recovered and they were both released from hospital. 162 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,560 So this is before Dawn Sturgis died. 163 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,040 And so we had this kind of period of calm, if you like, for 164 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,160 the people of Salisbury where both victims had recovered. 165 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,880 They'd been released from hospital. 166 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,080 And The New York Times, for example, published an article 167 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,360 where they went to Salisbury and interviewed some of the people 168 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,080 in Salisbury. He was saying, well, you know, I 169 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,560 think if Mr. Putin had wanted to kill somebody, they'd be dead. 170 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:02,480 And, you know, I don't think we're ever going to get to the 171 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:03,720 bottom of this. And they were expecting. 172 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,400 So skepticism from the people of Salisbury being expressed in the 173 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,560 New York Times hardly a a minor publication. 174 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,880 And then once, you know, we got to this point, then this sort of 175 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,840 second act of the, of the whole of chalk poisoning began and 176 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:26,400 Dawn died, You know, she's, she's, she effectively died in 177 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,680 Charlie Rowley's flat. She had a heart attack and brain 178 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,480 damage by the time the paramedics came and they revived 179 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,680 her, but she had suffered catastrophic brain damage. 180 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,360 And she's actually died 8 days later when they turned off her 181 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,520 life support system. And then Charlie Rowley woke up 182 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,800 two days after that. So, and then of course, the 183 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,720 bottle was found in his flat after he woke up. 184 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,520 So this, this suggestion that the sort of bottle was found in 185 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,640 a bin really kept was, was given to him. 186 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,320 And you can actually see that in the transcripts of the of the 187 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,160 interviews that he was given giving to the police. 188 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,640 The time you can see the suggestion really first comes 189 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,200 from the police that he found this bottle somewhere because 190 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,640 he's he's as, as I say, he doesn't really remember anything 191 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,240 about it, although he does remember very clearly that it 192 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,280 was wrapped in plastic. And that's another detail which 193 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,120 the inquiry has to deal with it. So it has to engineer some 194 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,200 answers as to why this bottle was in two pieces and wrapped as 195 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:30,080 it were, as if new in a box. Well, look, let's, let's see if 196 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,120 we can deal with this bottle once and for all here, because 197 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,880 first of all, let's bring up the, the, the page from the Don 198 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,400 Sturgis inquiry report here. So that's, that's the front page 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,920 of the Don storage, the Don Sturgis inquiry report and 200 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,560 highlighted here is Section 1 sort of 4.71. 201 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,600 The larger sachet have been cut open unevenly. 202 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,200 The sachets appeared, particularly the smaller of the 203 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,760 two, to have both original manufacturers sealed edges, but 204 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,800 also an additional heat seals consistent with subsequent 205 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,280 application by the kind of domestic sealer readily 206 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,600 available for kitchen or similar use. 207 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,800 Those additional heat seals were consistent with the bottle 208 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,440 having been used in the Salisbury event involving Sergei 209 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,800 and Yulia Skripal and crudely repackaged before being 210 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,200 abandoned. This seems like such a 211 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,440 ridiculous narrative, Tim. Well, it seems to me that it's a 212 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,240 sort of a narrative that's being engineered around the evidence 213 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,320 that Charlie Riley presented. Because although as we 214 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,240 discussed, he has virtually no memory of where he found the 215 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,440 bottle. He had a very clear memory of 216 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,560 opening the bottle, cutting open the plastic and indeed spilling 217 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,920 the contents of the bottle on his hands. 218 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,560 He tried to put this applicator on the top of it. 219 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:45,720 And so the inquiry then has to try and answer this question of 220 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,680 how did the bottle come to be sealed if it was the bottle that 221 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:53,800 was used to contaminate script house door and there's a sub 222 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,800 theory that is a backup bottle. But really then why would there 223 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,480 need to be a bottle at all? That could have been anything if 224 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,120 that wasn't the bottle. Right, right, right. 225 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,840 So sorry. Just let me interrupt for a 226 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,640 second because you've just said that Charlie Roley poured, 227 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,360 spilled it over his hands. We'll come back to this in a 228 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,240 second. What I want to just mention here 229 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,960 in passing here that this man Hamish to Bretton Gordon, if we 230 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:19,720 can get him up on screen here, he was rolled out back in 2018 231 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,040 to terrify us all at that time about this with a headline in 232 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,600 the Telegraph. Why Novichok could be Russia's 233 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,240 most terrifying weapon in a war with the West. 234 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,000 Look, we have, I want to show a short clip from yesterday's 235 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Channel 4 News report on this and well, guess who they rolled 236 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:38,800 out. But let's watch this. 237 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,440 And it was 3 Gru men who travelled to the UK to try to 238 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,760 kill her father eight years later, under aliases. 239 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,080 They were in reality Alexander Mishkin, Anatoly Chepiga and 240 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,160 Denis Sergeyev, who stayed in London while the other two 241 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,840 travelled to Salisbury smearing Novichok on. 242 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,960 Skripal's door handle The pair then discarded the perfume 243 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,760 bottle containing it before travelling back to Russia. 244 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,800 We're talking about something called Novichok, the most deadly 245 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,360 chemical ever manufactured by man. 246 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,560 And if you think that something like chlorine is maybe toxicity 247 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:21,680 one, this is toxicity 10,000. So this is toxicity 10,000 248 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,640 Charlie Rowley. Charlie Rowley pours it over his 249 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,960 hands, spills it. Toxicity 10,000. 250 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,040 It's killing thousands of people potentially, but it didn't kill 251 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,720 him. That's quite amazing. 252 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,520 Deadliest nerve agent known to man 10 times more deadly than 253 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,640 VXVX gas Tim. So this this means Charlie 254 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,680 Rowley should be donated to scientific research for his 255 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,520 incredible immune capabilities. Indeed, along with the Skripals 256 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,960 and along with the Skripals cat, which survived in the in the 257 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,320 Skripals house for weeks, apparently contaminated with 258 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,640 Novichok until the police decided to euthanize it. 259 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,000 Yes. I mean, Rowley doesn't just spit 260 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,120 on his hands. He then wipes his hands on his 261 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,640 jeans before he then washes them under the tap. 262 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,560 And then he goes out. I mean, at this point Dawn is 263 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,880 taken to hospital, but he doesn't accompany Dawn to the 264 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,800 hospital. He goes and gets his methadone 265 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,760 prescription from the Amesbury chemist and then with a friend 266 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,120 he goes to a BBQ at a Baptist Church. 267 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,400 Then he goes back to his flat and then he collapses. 268 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,880 So very delayed action, although of course in the case of Dawn 269 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,280 Sturgis apparently took 15 minutes before she was affected. 270 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,160 But just quickly going back to this question of the heat 271 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:37,560 sealing of the of the bottle and why this packaging was sealed, 272 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,240 sealed the bottle, according to the inquiry. 273 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,800 They the inquiry suggests that Boschrov and Petrov, these two 274 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,840 assassins who we just saw alleged assassins, had with them 275 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,760 in their backpack a portable heat sealing device such as you 276 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,680 might find in the kitchen and having poisoned the smeared the 277 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,920 substance on the door, as we just heard, they went to some 278 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,480 toilets in the This is the inquiry's suggestion. 279 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,080 This is not fantasy, which is fantasy. 280 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,520 Perhaps it's coming from the inquiry. 281 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,960 I went to some public toilets, took apart their bottle of WMD 282 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,440 10,000 times more deadly and then sealed it in plastic using 283 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,600 their heat sealer and then just dropped it in a bin and left. 284 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,440 And that is the narrative that was off seriously presented to 285 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,200 the inquiry to the point where they spent half a half a day at 286 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,600 the inquiry interviewing a forensic expert in heat, heat 287 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,280 sealing devices and heat seeders. 288 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,320 And I guess because, you know, our councils are also rubbish 289 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,760 these days, they don't empty the bin. 290 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,360 So it took four months for Charlie Rowley to find it in the 291 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,760 same bin. And but here's the key question, 292 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,560 Tim. Where was the part perfume 293 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,720 bottle found when Don Sturgis was taken to hospital? 294 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,960 Well, it was found on the worktop 10 days later, as I 295 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,240 think we mentioned. And in fact the photograph that 296 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,520 we're shown in the inquiry of the bottle is that is used to 297 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,280 suggest to Charlie by the police. 298 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,280 They'd show him the photograph. They say, can you see that 299 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,000 thing? And when you see the photograph 300 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,720 reproduced in the inquiry documents, the branding is 301 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,040 redacted, It's been blacked out, very conveniently also hides how 302 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,839 much liquid was in the bottle because clearly the amount of 303 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,760 liquid is quite important. We've apparently now smeared on 304 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,440 the door handle, then we've spilled, then rarely spilled on 305 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,599 his hands, and then yet again another amount has been used to 306 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,040 door by door and apparently on on ourself. 307 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,080 So that's a little interesting detail. 308 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,360 We never get to see how much liquid is in there in the this 309 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,360 bottle, which is the sole sort of forensic centre of this 310 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,800 rather baroque narrative. Right. 311 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,560 So just just let me understand this. 312 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,720 We're absolutely clear about this, that according to the 313 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,080 inquiry report, the bottle was found in the flat. 314 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,360 The in no, I mean, we know for a fact that's where it first 315 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,480 appeared and it appeared 10 days after the event. 316 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,440 The flat was thoroughly searched by the police. 317 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,920 But in the in terms of the report, it concedes that it 318 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,080 really, really has no idea where he found his account changed 319 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,760 constantly and it was it was unable to determine really he's 320 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,720 unable to say where, where, where it was found. 321 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,200 You know, no, I'm talking about when Don Sturgis went to the 322 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,160 hospital. It was definitely in the flat at 323 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,080 that time. Oh, no, no, no. 324 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:17,280 Well, we don't know that we know. 325 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,640 We know. The first sighting of the 326 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,200 bottle, if you like, is 10 days after the Amesbury flat 327 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,360 poisoning, when he is. Apparently he's first seen on 328 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,760 the work surface in the kitchen, so that's the first. 329 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,800 Of Charlie Rowley's flat right. Of Charlie Rowley's flat. 330 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,720 Of Charlie or Dawn's flat Charlie's. 331 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:33,680 Flat. It's just Charlie's flat. 332 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,080 I'm sorry, just say Dawn. Yeah. 333 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,000 Yeah, yeah. So this is very confusing, 334 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,200 right? Because we've got a video clip 335 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,040 of Ben Wallace here, who of course was Secretary of State 336 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,840 for war slash defence. Let's have a listen to what he 337 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,000 said about this. And I went to, I first went to 338 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,000 Ukraine in 2016 as security minister. 339 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,240 I remember thinking something had changed when Putin used 340 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,600 nerve agent at Salisbury. That was the real wake up call, 341 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,280 that this was a man who supposedly had been on a journey 342 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,080 from the Soviet Union authorizing the use of a banned 343 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:14,240 substance, nerve agent on the streets of a county town without 344 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,160 any real regard. I remember going to see the 345 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,400 discarded perfume bottle which was 98% pure. 346 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,560 It would have killed 34000 people if they'd been 347 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,680 distributed differently. We'd just been chucked under a 348 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,440 Bush in a park. There was a we went to a small 349 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,360 park in Salisbury and I went with the chief constable and the 350 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,440 head of terrorism and he was saying I'll show you where it 351 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,400 is. And there was a man sitting on 352 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,640 the bench eating his sandwiches and these policemen and Spooks 353 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,560 were pointing at the bench he was sitting on. 354 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,520 And he looked up and I thought, I can't tell him, I can't tell 355 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,600 him. So I, I don't get why everybody 356 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,760 was laughing there. Here we have a Secretary of 357 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,000 State talking about being taken to the scene of a crime by the 358 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,760 chief constable with a where there is a perfume bottle which 359 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,360 is enough stuff in it to kill 4 to 5000 people. 360 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,920 That place is apparently not cordoned off. 361 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,280 We've got a guy sitting eating sandwiches on the on the park 362 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,360 bench, Patrick, but. But no one in hazmat suits. 363 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:16,520 No, no one in hazmat suits. But the key point here is we we 364 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,560 clearly have no narrative because he's saying was found 365 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,400 under a Bush the inquiry saying, well, we don't don't know what 366 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,280 the inquiry saying, but but it was apparently found in in in 367 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:31,400 Charlie Raley's flat. So where was this blooming? 368 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,040 This perfume bottle is is absolutely it's like the magic 369 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,800 bullet for JFK. It it seems to be in but it's 370 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,240 multiple places at the same time. 371 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,160 But I mean, even by Ben Wallace's standards, that's just 372 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,160 a bombastic and outrageous statement. 373 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,240 I mean, this goes in the Hall of Fame of his gaffes, which is a 374 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,920 huge pantheon of bloopers. But I mean, this is just next 375 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,280 level. I mean, that's the that's the 376 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,120 Defense Secretary. Absolutely. 377 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,600 Talking, absolutely. And my question for you, Tim, is 378 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,680 why, if this inquiry was in any way serious, why would they not 379 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,880 have called Ben Wallace to testify about what he said at 380 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,880 that event? Well, indeed, and why didn't 381 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,000 they for that matter, call the script hours and they're 382 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,800 expected to believe that the UK's sort of security network is 383 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,480 incapable of protecting them such that, you know, if they 384 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,000 were to appear by secure video link, which of course happens in 385 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,600 court cases all the time, he would they would somehow be 386 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,040 tracked down by shooting strangely incompetent assassins 387 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,400 who would presumably once again failed to kill the script owls 388 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,320 with the most steady nerve agent known to man. 389 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,400 But yes, I mean, there's many witnesses that they could have 390 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,160 called. I mean, they're plenty of the 391 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,600 medical staff, the medical director of the hospital, 392 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,200 There's another very important witness that the the inquiry 393 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,560 should have called and because she was, of course, in charge of 394 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,800 the whole hospital during the response to the Nova shock, both 395 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,000 Nova shock attacks. Right. 396 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,920 Well, we'll get on. We'll get on to that in just one 397 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,960 second, Tim. But before we do, I just want to 398 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,480 remind everybody what the Sally Davies, who was at the at the 399 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,280 time Chief Medical Officer said. Let's just have a listen to 400 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,560 this. These two patients are in a 401 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,160 critical condition following exposure to the nerve agent 402 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,160 Novichok following events in March. 403 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,760 We have a well established response to this type of 404 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,480 incident and clear processes to follow. 405 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:22,720 Our priorities at this time are to care for the patients and to 406 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,000 understand the circumstances surrounding how these two 407 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,800 individuals became unwell, thus ensuring there is no further 408 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,560 risk to the public's health from this incident. 409 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,960 As the country's Chief Medical Officer, I want to reassure the 410 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,800 public that the risk to the general public remains low. 411 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,360 I understand that those in Salisbury and its surrounding 412 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:46,800 areas will be concerned that this news, particularly those 413 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,960 who've recently visited the areas now cordoned off by the 414 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,480 police. My advice for any individual 415 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,880 that may have been in any of the areas now cordoned off from 416 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,680 10:00 PM on Friday evening onwards is highly precautionary. 417 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,560 As before, my advice is to wash your clothes and wipe down any 418 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,400 personal items, shoes and bags with cleansing or baby wipes 419 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,200 before disposing of them in the usual way. 420 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,320 This is. So there we go. 421 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,720 That was the advice. That was how serious the the 422 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,040 contents of the bottle were. Baby wipes. 423 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:22,960 Baby wipes. Yeah. 424 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,240 Now you you mentioned the hospital doctor. 425 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,800 This is Doctor Stephen Cockroft. Well, now I was referring to 426 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Christine Blanchard, but actually Stephen Cockroft is a 427 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,080 very interesting witness who appeared before the inquiry and 428 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,800 he was the senior ICU consultant who was present when the 429 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,760 Skripals were brought in to the ICU on the evening, afternoon, 430 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,800 4th of March 2018. But this, in this clip, which 431 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760 we're about to see, he's describing what happened four 432 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,080 days later. Because the Skripals were put on 433 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,720 ventilators, they were intubated and they weren't able to speak. 434 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,640 But under these circumstances, it's common practice in Icus to 435 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,680 reduce the sedation of the patients on a periodical, 436 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,880 usually more than once a day, to see how their neurological 437 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,160 function is and see if in fact, they can be weaned off sedation 438 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,880 and can be can breathe for themselves. 439 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,160 So Yulius Gripal had her sedation reduced into his 440 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,360 absolute amazement because Doctor Crockroft believed that 441 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,720 she had been exposed to a deadly nerve agent who'd been told that 442 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,440 by Porton down this stage. He believed that she would be 443 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,080 brain dead. And as he says in this clip, 444 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,120 he's absolutely gobsmacked. So let's have a look. 445 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:35,800 Let's have a look at this clip here. 446 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,960 To be honest with you, I was actually gobsmacked. 447 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,040 This was a girl I never thought I'd see move again. 448 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,680 I never thought she'd be capable having a conversation. 449 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,720 I was quite convinced she suffered catastrophic brain 450 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,760 damage and I I I couldn't believe that she could be as 451 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,840 neurologically attacked. As she obviously was, she was 452 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,720 looking at me, she was nodding, she was crying, she looked 453 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,280 absolutely terrified. Yeah, I mean, you could not be 454 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,040 anything but gobsmacked, Tim. Yes. 455 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,200 And there's serious implications. 456 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,320 There's all kinds of ramifications to that. 457 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,720 And one thing would be, of course, at this point, Yulia 458 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,600 should be put on a rehabilitation program. 459 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,920 They've just discovered that she's very neurologically 460 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,080 intact. She should be almost immediately 461 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,520 should be given a brain scan, and she should be rehabilitated 462 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,920 and moved towards coming off ventilation. 463 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,960 Instead of which, as far as we know, she simply spent the next 464 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960 three weeks under sedation without any further sedation 465 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,320 halts, while the geopolitics of the scribble affairs were 466 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,560 unfolded outside the hospital. Yeah. 467 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,280 OK, we can't let real medical conditions get in the way of the 468 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,720 narrative, Mike. No, absolutely. 469 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,040 Not but D notices were a thing. Well, it just brings us to the 470 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,440 question of media management and narrative management. 471 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,520 I have to point to this excellent report here by The 472 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,760 Grey Zone. We'll bring this up on screen 473 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,320 right now. Files expose Britain's secret D 474 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,760 notice censorship program. And this is a pretty incredible 475 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,280 most in the most in depth analysis with testimonies, 476 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,800 whistleblower testimonies regarding the D notice program. 477 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,920 This is a complete full spectrum censorship program in Britain 478 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,000 with the military leaning on mainstream media organizations 479 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,760 telling them what not to say, what not to report, anything 480 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,280 that could quote affect national security. 481 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,480 And it's just another damning indictment. 482 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,320 We've talked about D notices over the years. 483 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,240 We we're well aware of the practice. 484 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,520 But the level of detail in this is shocking. 485 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,520 And that brings us to this story. 486 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,360 Mike and I always thought and it this is I'll show you where I 487 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,960 got my references on this, but this is one of the lead 488 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,800 narratives that came out of this. 489 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,040 Now the question is Mike, will this be viewed as a cock up or 490 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,480 cover up after the inquiry? And this is always the big thing 491 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,720 with regards to British inquiries of major high profile 492 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,920 events. And of course we get the the 493 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,400 cock up rather than the cover up here. 494 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,680 Novichok attack MI 5 left ex Russian spy Sergei Skripal 495 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,760 alarmingly accessible to Putin assassins. 496 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,200 They didn't do enough to protect Sergei script out. 497 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,040 We need more resources for MI 5. We need more funding for MI 5. 498 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,400 And so this was a cock up by the system. 499 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,880 And you know what there's form here and this is always the case 500 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,040 after every major scandal. And I'll point you to this 501 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,640 excellent book here, which is called Power beyond scrutiny, 502 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,240 Media Justice and accountability. 503 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,480 This is Justin Schlossberg. It's a great book. 504 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,200 I often quote it here just to show you. 505 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,960 I've got a copy of it which I keep by my desk all the time. 506 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,840 For journalism. This is a fantastic resource, 507 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,400 but this is one of the key quotes in this book of many, and 508 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,560 it really focuses on the David Kelly incident, Mike, and we'll 509 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,680 bring this up on screen again here. 510 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,000 And this is what it says regarding cock up versus cover 511 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,200 up here. And this is regarding the David 512 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,800 Kelly of the Hutton inquiry. Several respondents now the the 513 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,920 author here talked to many people involved in the process. 514 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,200 And this was the conclusion several, several respondents did 515 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760 profess belief in some sort of cover up regarding David 516 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,520 Kelly's, you know, suicide, stroke, murder, whilst at the 517 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080 same time subscribing to the suicide verdict. 518 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,040 The common thread was a tendency to couch the notion of cover up 519 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,960 in terms of quote cock up rather than a conspiracy. 520 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,760 And to round out that point, that is to say, if a cover up 521 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,720 had taken place, the likely intention was to conceal 522 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,760 professional failings rather than unethical or criminal 523 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,120 behavior. And this is the institutional 524 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,640 leaning that we see time and time again. 525 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,560 It's almost like a formula, Mike. 526 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,240 They never the establishment always ends up and they appoint 527 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,280 probably people who will end up with. 528 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,080 This was the final narrative of this. 529 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,360 By the way, here's this book, which is available a good 530 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,520 independent publisher. By the way, Pluto Press power 531 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,320 beyond scrutiny. I have always said this is 532 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,440 required reading for anybody that's interested in these types 533 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,000 of events or anybody in journalism. 534 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,840 It's a fantastic resource. But, and again, we see the same 535 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,320 thing repeated here with script out. 536 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,680 Are we surprised? I certainly am not, but I'm 537 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,560 still disappointed. Well, indeed. 538 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,440 Well, look, Tim, thank you very much for joining us today. 539 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,000 You'll be with us an extra as well. 540 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,600 We'll talk about this a little bit more there. 541 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,520 But this narrative is so full of holes and this inquiry actually 542 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,760 has done nothing to fill those holes in in any way, shape or 543 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,480 form. But undoubtedly we'll be accused 544 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,960 of conspiracy theory for this and we'll explain why. 545 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,680 I say that in a few minutes time when we look at the censorship 546 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,000 issue. But before we get there, let's 547 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,400 just say to everybody that if you like what we do and you'd 548 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,120 like to support us, please have a look at the UK column website. 549 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,840 There is a link there which takes you to a page which 550 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,200 explains how you can support us. We do need your financial 551 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,400 support. If you can't support us 552 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,680 financially, please do share our material because that absolutely 553 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,400 helps beat the algorithm. Now tonight at 7:00 PM, Charles 554 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,840 and I are speaking to Jeremy again for our usual weekly 555 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,480 intercession. And we're taking a look at 556 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,280 Africa and Britain, the West's influence in Africa alongside 557 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,640 Russia and China, of course. Then later on at 9:00 PM, life 558 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,760 in China versus Western myths. That's Carl speaking to Jason RB 559 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,360 Smith on the Silk and Steel podcast. 560 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,040 That's at 9:00 PM and we're very pleased to say that tickets are 561 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,680 now on sale for our event on the 11th of December in Salisbury 562 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,640 entitled Skripal and Novichok. What didn't happen? 563 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,560 You can find this on Eventbrite. The link to that will be in the 564 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,720 show notes that begins at 7:30 PM at the location in Salisbury. 565 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,960 Details on the Eventbrite Eventbrite site, please. 566 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,800 If you are coming as AUK column member, we would be very 567 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840 enthusiastic if you could find somebody from the local 568 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,320 community to bring along with that with you because we want to 569 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400 to present this mainly to people in the local area. 570 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,560 I think they deserve to hear some of what's being said. 571 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,360 Craig Murray speaking, Patrick Hennigson speaking, and Tim 572 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,840 Norman that you just heard is going to be speaking at that as 573 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,000 well. And then finally, I just want to 574 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,000 mention that on Sunday the 14th, then we are hosting the third 575 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,120 annual David Ray Griffin Lecture and that is entitled 9/11 Truth 576 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,560 Today, A Social Movement at the Precipice. 577 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,560 It's got to be given by Professor Richard G Alfreds and 578 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,040 well, you can see on screen there who else is going to be 579 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,720 taking part Jason Burmas, James Corbett, Sandra Lara, Lara Toda 580 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,200 and Madava Get the SETI is going to be chairing the event. 581 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,120 So that's going to be live streamed on the UK column and on 582 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,680 ic911.org. Join us for that if you possibly 583 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,120 can. Looking forward to it, to both 584 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,160 those events, in fact. So now, Patrick, let's come then 585 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,440 on to the issue of Ukraine and what's been going on there. 586 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320 It's important that people understand the update on this 587 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,120 because all these countries are involved in it. 588 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,640 Britain, of course, is also very much involved in it. 589 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,080 So where are we on the negotiations on this? 590 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,240 And very entertaining image. We'll just remind you of 591 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,840 Instinct, the Russian dolls. Zelensky has been added to the 592 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,680 street side. Russian dolls collections in 593 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,680 Moscow. If you travel to Russia, you 594 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,560 have seen this. It's very interesting indeed. 595 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,160 Now, how's the media reacting, Mike, to some of the recent 596 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,000 statements regarding what Russia is saying, what the US is 597 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440 saying. Here's the Guardian straight up. 598 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,240 And you can see that this is the level of propaganda. 599 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,600 You see the headline, Russia is ready for war with Europe. 600 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,240 Of course, when you read the text, Mike, in the context of 601 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,040 this is a much broader conversation. 602 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,640 But it's interesting how the war mongering Guardian has chosen to 603 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,560 use that as their headline. Here is the actual statement in 604 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,080 context from President Putin. And it, it this should be a real 605 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:06,840 wake up call, I think for all of the war mongers in NATO land, at 606 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,640 least the European branch of NATO. 607 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,600 Listen to this. Europeans are not silent. 608 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,640 They are upset about being sidelined from the talks on a 609 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,800 Ukraine peace deal. But I want to note that nobody 610 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,600 sidelined them. They sidelined themselves. 611 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,360 For a time we had close contacts with them. 612 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,800 Then they abruptly cut ties with Russia. 613 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,080 That was their own initiative because they adopted the idea of 614 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,320 inflicting A strategic defeat on Russia. 615 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,240 And judging by everything, they still live in that illusion. 616 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,640 Seeing that they don't like today's results, they have 617 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,880 started obstructing the current US administration and President 618 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,240 Trump from achieving peace through negotiations. 619 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,360 They themselves refused peace talks and now they are hindering 620 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,000 President Trump. Thirdly, they have no peace 621 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,320 agenda. They are on the side of war. 622 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,440 Even when they claim to introduce changes to Trump's 623 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,280 proposal, we can clearly see all these changes are aimed at one 624 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,239 thing, to block the entire peace process. 625 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,600 They put forward demands that are absolutely unacceptable for 626 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,360 Russia and they know it. The goal is to later blame 627 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,440 Russia for the end of the peace process. 628 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,679 Therefore, if they want to return to reality based on the 629 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,040 situation on the ground, as they say, then by all means, we are 630 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,000 open to that. We are not planning to fight 631 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,880 Europe. I have said this 100 times. 632 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,480 But if Europe suddenly decides to wage war against us and 633 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,719 starts it, we are ready right now. 634 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,000 There can be no doubt about that. 635 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,320 The question is if Europe starts a war with us. 636 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,520 I believe that very quickly. This is not Ukraine. 637 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,360 With Ukraine, we act in a surgical, careful way. 638 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,400 You understand right? It is not war in the full modern 639 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,560 sense of the word. If Europe chooses to start a 640 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,800 war, the situation can very quickly reach a point where 641 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,400 there will be no one left for us to negotiate with. 642 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,160 Well, I mean, that's that's pretty clear. 643 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,720 And it's also pretty clear he's not threatening anybody there. 644 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,840 Quite the opposite. I think it's pretty clear the 645 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,640 the the US does not want a confrontation with Russia. 646 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,880 Russia does not want to have a war with Europe. 647 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,400 But the rhetoric coming from the European leaders, Mike says 648 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,840 something else. It's like they do want a war 649 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,760 with Russia. So what's interesting here is 650 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,240 what Putin is. Pay attention. 651 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,720 Putin has identified A fissure between Europe and Trump and 652 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:45,520 Washington. And he is absolutely using it. 653 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,320 He is really hammering the wedge in there. 654 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,520 And and by doing this, there's going to be a lot of back and 655 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,800 forth dilly dallying between Washington and and Europe and 656 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,880 Zelensky. And Russia knows this. 657 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,520 I believe they priced this all into the equation and but it's a 658 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,400 very, very good strategy, I think. 659 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,160 So where did this fissure come from between Europe and 660 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,360 Washington? Is this a genuine no? 661 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,440 But is it, was this something the Trump administration wanted 662 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,440 to distance himself like JD Vance at the Munich Security 663 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,080 Conferences from Europe? Whatever the case is, wherever 664 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,240 this originated from, Mike, or whether it's coming from 665 00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:22,160 animosity with with the UK, between Washington, who knows? 666 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,240 But wherever it came. But this has changed the whole 667 00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:28,720 calculus of this because under Biden you had total solidarity 668 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,000 between transatlantic solidarity on this. 669 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,440 They could run Lend Lease deals for the next 10 years, who 670 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,000 knows, and keep this thing grinding away. 671 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,120 So that's an interesting point of view. 672 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,640 Well, and here's the reaction from Trump's reprochement, if 673 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,840 you will, with Moscow. This is the Der Spiegel here 674 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,600 will bring this up on screen. We must not leave Ukraine and 675 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:53,040 Zelensky alone with these guys. And there's another reservoir 676 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,560 dogs style picture from the European meter to to make all 677 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,720 these European leaders look like they're really sort of with it 678 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,000 and tough. I mean it's just kind of a joke 679 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,120 at this point. So that's interesting. 680 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,040 You know the irony, Mike, this is AUS LED destabilization 681 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,920 project right from my from before the Maidan. 682 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,880 But now the US wants to exit the situation. 683 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,640 Europe is stuck with it and they're now running point on it. 684 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,120 They're going to have to wear the failure of this. 685 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,720 And I think that's inevitable based on what we're going to 686 00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:25,280 show you in a moment here, because now you've got another 687 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,200 problem to contend with. We'll bring this up on screen, a 688 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,360 corruption scandal in Brussels. And this is the only the 689 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,880 beginning here. That is the former high 690 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,840 representative to the European Union on foreign policy. 691 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,800 That's Frederica Margherini. She is basically detained by the 692 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,640 police under questioning for a corruption regarding tenders, 693 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,600 contracts, all sorts of graft and things like this. 694 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,080 So officers have been raided, right? 695 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,400 All of this has happened. So this is just, I think, a 696 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,240 warning shot because there are other bigger scandals, Qatar 697 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:04,480 gate, von der Leyen's own vaccine graft as well that 698 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,640 hasn't been fully. This could be something to 699 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,600 placate the press, who knows? But this brings us back to the 700 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,160 original question, who is going to pay for Europe's war with 701 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,160 Russia? And this was Vanderline's recent 702 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,720 pronouncements here, She's saying all over their new plans 703 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:23,920 and schemes to finance Ukraine's needs for the next, like, three 704 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,080 years or something like that. But there's a problem. 705 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,200 And the problem has come in the form of guess who, Christina 706 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:32,880 Lagarde. This is a battle of the alpha 707 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:34,880 females here at the highest level. 708 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,480 Mike Lagarde says the ECB, the European Central Bank, will not 709 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,440 violate the EU treaty, the Treaty of Europe, and allow 710 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,760 Brussels to steal Russian assets to pay for the Ukraine war. 711 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,680 She has given it the thumbs down. 712 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,440 Here she is explaining why she's made her decision. 713 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,640 What I have said very clearly and what the team around me has 714 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:02,160 said is we will do everything we can, but we will not violate the 715 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,640 Treaty. It's not that we are refusing, 716 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:08,520 it's just that we are saying we have to respect the Treaty of 717 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,280 Europe in relation to the functioning of the European 718 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,680 Central Bank. So when the fiscal space is not 719 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,560 there, we have to find a way and there are ways that have been 720 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,240 identified and in particular. Option 2 is one of the ways that 721 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,080 has been identified the issuance of. 722 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,200 Bonds that would be specifically intended to finance Ukraine. 723 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,040 More debts. Perfect. 724 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,840 Answer, the bonds she's talking about are underwritten by Russia 725 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,360 losing the war and paying reparations. 726 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,520 Is that going to happen? I don't know. 727 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,600 So it looks like no way out really for Vander Leyen and 728 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,120 company on this. So just a summary on where we're 729 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,280 at. These are the key data points to 730 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,320 pay attention to. We'll bring this up on screen 731 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,640 here. Ukraine negotiations, key data 732 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,440 points, number one. EU corruption and scandals 733 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,920 abound. Bad news for Brussels makes them 734 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,800 weak right here. Rubio's absent from the NATO 735 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,840 meeting this week. First time ever the US Secretary 736 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,120 of State has not shown up. You can read that two different 737 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,920 ways. Could be Trump keeping Rubio 738 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,960 away, or could be Rubio basically blowing off NATO. 739 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,400 Either way, it's a bad look for NATO and for their prospects of 740 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,360 getting full solidarity on this issue. 741 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,960 Witkoff snubs Zelensky in Dublin Zelensky went to to the Irish 742 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,600 parliament did his. Normal grandstanding and was 743 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,160 posed to meet Witkoff while Witkoff was on the way home from 744 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,440 Moscow. Guess what? 745 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,080 Witkoff snubbed the little Green Man. 746 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,320 So this was a huge insult. And here is the big one in terms 747 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,640 of data points, that one Russian momentum on the battlefield, 748 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,600 this is an inescapable reality here. 749 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,920 So you combine all of these data points together, Mike, and the 750 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:56,640 conclusion is that while this US Moscow ripprochement 751 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,000 negotiations might stretch on into 2026, at least now there's 752 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,120 an acknowledgement by the US of the facts on the ground. 753 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,160 They're recognizing Russias winning and that they cannot, 754 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,400 Ukraine cannot turn the tide or NATO of this conflict. 755 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,040 That is a reality. They've US has acknowledged that 756 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,560 there's no NATO membership for Ukraine and Zelensky has been 757 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,920 effectively sidelined with corruption scandals in Ukraine. 758 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,840 Your mock his chief aide is out. That is Zelensky's brain. 759 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,000 He's gone. So all of these things together, 760 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,720 Mike, it, it looks like we're seeing a shift. 761 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,680 However, when is this going to be formalized into some kind of 762 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,880 a formal agreement or treaty? That is the big question. 763 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:43,720 It is, but the Europeans will kick and scream as long as they 764 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,080 possibly can. Or the the UK, who arguably 765 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,960 helped the Ukrainians to hit oil tankers in the Black Sea, 766 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,600 causing a huge environmental catastrophe in order to 767 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,200 basically sabotage these negotiations. 768 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,800 So that's continuing. And what's Russia's reaction? 769 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,520 They're ramping up their timetable on Odessa. 770 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,800 So well done NATO. Brilliant. 771 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,080 OK well let's let's move on then because trouble at Eurovision. 772 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,080 So let's bring your vision on and well for those non Europeans 773 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,320 who don't know what your vision is, it's a so-called Song 774 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,400 Contest where European countries compete to win with cheesy tunes 775 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,080 and cheesier performers. It's always been highly 776 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,760 politicized, and up until recent years the winner was chosen by a 777 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,800 selected panel of national representatives who would always 778 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,560 vote for their geopolitical buddies. 779 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,920 But in more recent years, an effort to lose this 780 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,560 politicization has been brought in with possibly also the skim 781 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,960 cash from the general public, of course, because they introduced 782 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,760 a popular vote via a phone in Now they claim to be united by 783 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,800 music. But in fact, not this year 784 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,320 because when Israel came second in the 2025 Song Contest, the 785 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,720 accusations flew that Israel had rigged the telephone vote, 786 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,120 causing the director of Eurovision to issue an open 787 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,080 letter denying the allegations. At the core was the unlikelihood 788 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,560 that Israel would receive such a popular vote in light of the 789 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,800 ongoing genocide in Gaza. And Martin Green there claimed 790 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,600 that there are all kinds of checks and balances in place to 791 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,920 prevent flooding fraud. But this is Israel we're talking 792 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,120 about and they've got their unit 8200, which we've got to 793 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,320 remember is an offensive cyber operation. 794 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,760 So anything's possible here, but the news today then is that 795 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,720 Ireland, Spain, the Netherlands and Slovenia are going to 796 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,520 boycott the 2026 Eurovision Song Contest after it was decided 797 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,240 that Israel could compete. And everyone paying attention 798 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:43,880 may be asking why Israel was ever involved in the 1st place. 799 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,600 Well, Eurovision is organised by the European Broadcasting Union, 800 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,920 and any country with a national broadcaster that is an active 801 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,640 member of the EBU is allowed to participate, even if the 802 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,640 country's not in Europe geographically. 803 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,640 So the Israel Broadcasting Authority became a member in 804 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,200 1957, and Israel first took part in 1973. 805 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,320 But a number of countries decided they should not be 806 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,680 taking part in 2026, bearing in mind what's going on, and Spain 807 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,520 led the charge for a secret ballot to be held on Israel's 808 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,880 participation. That idea was rejected and the 809 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,600 participation was pushed through. 810 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,120 And so these four countries so far have decided to abandon. 811 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,880 The chief executive of Israel's broadcaster said the attempt to 812 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,240 disqualify its entry can only be understood as a cultural 813 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,920 boycott. A boycott may begin today with 814 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,120 Israel, but no one knows where it will end or who else may 815 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,800 harm, he said. And is this what we truly want 816 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,160 the contest to be remembered for, for his 70th anniversary? 817 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,680 The BBC for its part, of course, broadcasts your vision in the 818 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,720 UK, said in a statement. We support the collective 819 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,560 decision made by members of the European Broadcasting Union. 820 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,880 This is about enforcing the rules of the EBU and about being 821 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,640 inclusive, and we don't worry too much about who's being 822 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,600 killed in the meantime, apparently. 823 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,920 I think it's great. It's now relevant again, 824 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,320 Eurovision, politically anyway, so I think this is great news. 825 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,800 Yes, indeed. But sticking with international 826 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:19,280 stuff, then Venezuela, Patrick. Hugely, hugely complicated 827 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,520 story. Obviously the the ramifications 828 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,160 of this are unbelievable here. Trump's new war on Venezuela, 829 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,360 this is exactly what it is. And this has taken some 830 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,600 interesting turns this week. And we'll look we'll look at 831 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,560 that, especially regarding the self declared secretary of war. 832 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,480 His name is Pete Hegseth here. And the controversy is over 833 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,880 this. It's the Venezuelan boat strike 834 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,120 fallout here. They're calling it the double 835 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,520 tap. This is being regarded as a war 836 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,920 crime. The press are now circling like 837 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,480 vultures, as well as the opposition, including Rand Paul 838 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,560 and the Republican side, putting a lot of pressure on the 839 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,600 government to have an inquiry regarding this incident. 840 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,640 Now, is this a war crime? Is it not a war crime? 841 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,480 This is obviously part of the national debate right now. 842 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:07,680 But you can see clearly that this is damaged the Trump 843 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,760 administration here. We'll bring this up on screen. 844 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,000 Trump's Venezuelan boat strikes fuel war crime allegations. 845 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,680 Are they legal? This is CBS News. 846 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,520 So this is dominating the political conversation here. 847 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,320 Certainly there's grounds for impeachment for Heg Seth. 848 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,080 But more than that, he would basically go under trial first 849 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,440 in front of Congress and then if if it goes any further for war 850 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,600 crimes, probably would get pardoned by Trump because Trump 851 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,920 has his habit of pardon, pardoning anybody who's a 852 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,160 criminal, basically. I'll show you one in a minute. 853 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,280 But this is what a defiant Heg Seth tweeted. 854 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,160 We'll bring this up on screen right now on his this ex 855 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,200 account. This is a children's book called 856 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,480 Franklin and he's made his own cover. 857 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,200 Franklin targets narco terrorists. 858 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,680 So I mean this this is the the maturity of the current Defense 859 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,160 Secretary calls himself the war secretary. 860 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,040 This is the sort of stuff he's putting out. 861 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,600 And if you think this is bad, he had to double down on this 862 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,560 because he got a lot of stick for this. 863 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,040 So what does he do? He goes and sticks this silly 864 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,800 mem outside of the Department of Defense there, and that's 865 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,960 Hegseth. You can see the tattoos on his 866 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,480 forearm. His body is completely covered 867 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,760 with tattoos. He's very proud of the fact that 868 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,480 he's done this year. So the the people who are 869 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,600 circling the wagons on this mic have pointed out that Hegseth 870 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,760 has incriminated himself by basically previously last month 871 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,080 calling for a change in the rules of engagement. 872 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,600 So if there is a trial, what I'm going to show you is going to be 873 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:48,200 evidence exhibit #1 watch this. We are preparing every day. 874 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,360 We have to be prepared for war, not for defence. 875 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,760 We're training warriors, not defenders. 876 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,080 We fight wars to win, not to defend. 877 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,720 Defence is something you do all the time. 878 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:01,080 It's inherently reactionary and can lead to overuse, overreach 879 00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,320 and mission creep. War is something you do 880 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,360 sparingly, on our own terms and with clear aims. 881 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,640 We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and 882 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,840 punishing violence on the enemy. We also don't fight with stupid 883 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,040 rules of engagement. We untie the hands of our war 884 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,000 fighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt and kill the 885 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,840 enemies of our country. No more politically correct and 886 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,440 overbearing rules of engagement. Just common sense, maximum 887 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,920 lethality and authority for war fighters. 888 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,280 That's all I ever wanted as a platoon leader. 889 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,360 A. Platoon leader. 890 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,440 I got a platoon leader as the head of the Pentagon. 891 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,880 Great. So who are the enemies of the 892 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,400 United States? Well, with this new rule book 893 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,800 that heck, Seth and Trump are trying to foist on the United 894 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,920 States and the world, if you can call someone a quote, narco 895 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,720 terrorist, this is a new term, Narco terrorist, then basically 896 00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:03,800 it's carte blanche. You don't need any due process. 897 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,640 You can just kill whoever and do it extrajudiciously and so forth 898 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,360 with extreme prejudice. And so, and this is something 899 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,320 that's also happened here. And if you pay attention to this 900 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,520 story, this is from the Wall Street Journal here. 901 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,920 Hexet asked top Admiral to resign after months of 902 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,720 discourse. So basically pushing out anybody 903 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,040 who wants to follow the law or comply with the law. 904 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,320 We're talking about the US military code, the laws of war 905 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,000 and the Geneva Conventions. OK, Hexat's pushing out people 906 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,000 who are doing that now. Do you remember a couple months 907 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,560 ago when they hit a Colombian narco sub after this boat 908 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,760 incident? This boat incident took place, 909 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,960 this double tap in end of September. 910 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,960 After that, they had a narco submarine in the Pacific. 911 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,600 OK, What happened? They went and rescued the people 912 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,240 who were survived from that. There was a change in policy. 913 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:55,000 Why? Because there was a change of 914 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,880 command at JSOC or at this level of this operation whereby they 915 00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,360 had already internally recognized what that this was a 916 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,080 war crime, you see. So this has been stewing under 917 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,240 the surface. This is why The Washington Post 918 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,240 had seven sources confirmed the story last week and then Hegseth 919 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,000 and Trump both lied to the public. 920 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,920 They denied it happened, then they changed the story, then 921 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,760 they changed the story again. So they've lied and you've got 922 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,480 war crime, evidence of a war crime here. 923 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,520 I mean, this is not good for the United States. 924 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,920 Now, the British reaction, Mike, was quite quick or early on. 925 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,600 This was from last week here. We'll bring this up on screen. 926 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,440 The UK paused intelligence sharing with the US on 927 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,280 suspected, quote, drug vessels in the Caribbean because Britain 928 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,640 didn't want to be implicated any potential war crimes. 929 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,960 So hats off to the British for recognizing the precariousness 930 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,840 of this. But again, the wagons are 931 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,120 circling again. Watchdog finds Hegseth violated 932 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,560 Pentagon protocol in the signal gate affair. 933 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,800 You remember that? Yes, that was months ago. 934 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,560 So they're they're lopping one after the other. 935 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,200 And here is the ultimate conclusion, Mike, is that this 936 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:10,280 relatively small event, this boat carrying allegedly narco 937 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,960 terrorists carrying drugs to America, a boat with a range of 938 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,160 60 miles or 990 miles. I mean, how could how could that 939 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,240 get to the US territorial waters? 940 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,880 But that could have thrown a wrench into Trump's war plans 941 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,160 politically. And we'll bring this up again, 942 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,680 this is mainstream here, this is CNN. 943 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,120 Trump struggles with Venezuelan dilemma as Maduro digs in and 944 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,160 storm builds at home over potential war crime. 945 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,480 Again, with Pete Hagseth, Trump is also implicated in this war 946 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,880 crime because he would executive wise, he would have given the OK 947 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,720 to Hagseth, who would have then told his Admiral, who they're 948 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,800 currently leaving out to dry on this, who would also get 949 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,120 pardoned by Trump. But you can see, Mike, how this 950 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,680 has created a delay. I think this is kind of, you 951 00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,320 know, gummed up the effort by Trump to hit Venezuela. 952 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:04,280 Now, if Trump is seen to be bluffing on Venezuela, that's 953 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,280 it. I don't think you can pull this 954 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,200 one again. You can't do it twice because 955 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,440 the opposition and those enemies of Trump are going to see this 956 00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,640 and they'll seize upon it if he tries this one again. 957 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,720 So again, there's so many different aspects. 958 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,040 By the way, Trump is claiming there's a major war on drugs. 959 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,560 This is all about stopping Maduro in Venezuela. 960 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,880 Trump just pardoned one of the biggest drug traffickers this 961 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,120 week, a former Honduran president, Juan Orlando 962 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,560 Hernandez, who did a 45 year sentence in AUS federal prison. 963 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,640 He's in AUS clink for 40 tons of cocaine trafficking it into the 964 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,000 United States and this Trump just pardoned him because he 965 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,440 said well, friends of mine said he was treated very badly. 966 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:53,480 And so apparently this is coming from Marco Rubio, who is Marco 967 00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,080 Rubio friends with current president of Ecuador Naboa 968 00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,960 massive connections implicated in huge drug trafficking 969 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,560 scandals. Are the cartels giving an order 970 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,520 to Trump to spring one of their own? 971 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,360 Is that what happened? It's nobody calling about for 972 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,720 this because he's running this anti narco state operation and 973 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:16,720 then he's releasing former heads of narco states. 974 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:19,120 How does that work? And he's justifying it on, well, 975 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,960 guys, I play golf with that. He was treated very badly. 976 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,360 So we're going to release him. No, it's Rubio and it's the 977 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,520 people behind Rubio. We have the level of criminal 978 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,840 corruption. Corruption in the US government 979 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,760 in this Trump administration is one of the most criminally 980 00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,200 corrupt governments. It may end up being in history. 981 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,920 And this is only 10 months into his first second term, Mike. 982 00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:43,640 I mean, what do the next three years have in store? 983 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,240 That's the question. So there's more to report on 984 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,000 this. We'll we'll be watching this 985 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,480 closely. Yes indeed. 986 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,440 OK, well let's come back to the UUK then and and censorship 987 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,600 agenda. So yesterday Ofcom find AVS 988 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,680 Group Limited which runs 18 adult websites. 989 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,440 They find the £1,000,000 for not having robust age checks in 990 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,640 place, plus 50,000 lbs for failing to respond to 991 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,680 information requests. And they say Ofcom says the 992 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,080 fines come as the regulator reports on how the online safety 993 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,400 landscape is changing following the new laws coming into effect 994 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:18,600 this year. Well, we'll talk about that a 995 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:23,720 little bit more in a second. But they said that for more than 996 00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,120 two decades online platforms have been unregulated, 997 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,160 unaccountable and often unwilling to prioritise people's 998 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,000 safety over profits. And they said that illegal 999 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,280 content duties under the ACT came into force in March. 1000 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,720 And then it goes on to say that new Ofcom research shows that 1001 00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:49,160 58% of parents believe the measures in Ofcom's codes of 1002 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,880 practice are already improving the safety of UK children 1003 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,040 online, and that 67% feel the measures will make a difference 1004 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,840 in the future. And the 36% have noticed the 1005 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,280 potential impact on their child's online safety. 1006 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,000 So this is quite an incredible claim that they're making. 1007 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,320 And they're saying that they're making sure that tech firms 1008 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,920 assess the risk their platforms host the UK users and take 1009 00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:12,800 appropriate steps to address those risks. 1010 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,960 And they're particularly claiming that these platforms 1011 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:21,480 are having to deal with age checks and other child 1012 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,080 protections. And they're also saying that 1013 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,280 that the platforms most used by kids, including Facebook, 1014 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:33,120 Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, YouTube, Roblox and Snap must 1015 00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,760 tell Ofcom what they're doing to keep children safe. 1016 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,520 And I'm just going to ask, how's that going, Ofcom? 1017 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:45,080 Because the YouTube schlep built a huge following on YouTube, 1018 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,240 tracking down alleged child protectors, child predators on 1019 00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:55,960 Roblox before he was kicked off until the platform is facing 1020 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,360 multiple losses. Roblox, we're talking about over 1021 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,040 child safety and the truth is, as we've mentioned many times 1022 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,640 that Ofcom is doing nothing to protect children from grooming 1023 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,240 and it's merely using child protection as a front for the 1024 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,520 digital ID roll out, which is what this age verification thing 1025 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,440 is all about. So, so that's that's where they 1026 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,160 are with that. Now moving on then, I just want 1027 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:26,320 to mention the fact that the wonderful people at News Guard, 1028 00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,680 this organization that is there to protect us all and make sure 1029 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,240 that only trustworthy news sources are seen by everybody, 1030 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,600 has sent us their annual e-mail. So let's bring it up on screen 1031 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,080 here. So there it is. 1032 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:42,520 I'm right. Good afternoon. 1033 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:44,760 I'm writing from News Guard, a company that reads news and 1034 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,920 information websites. For reliability, we assess each 1035 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,840 site based on 9A political journalistic criteria and assign 1036 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,640 a zero to 100 trust score based on those criteria. 1037 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,040 Our rating processing criteria can be found in the links on 1038 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,720 screen at the moment. So anyway they they have asked 1039 00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:05,120 us for comment because because they find some of our content 1040 00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,240 inappropriate. So I just wanted to highlight 1041 00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:10,440 the particular articles that they do find inappropriate with 1042 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,480 a view to suggesting the people that you might want to pay 1043 00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,680 particular attention to them. So the first thing that they 1044 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,960 were criticizing was this Patrick, your news programme 1045 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,320 with Brian from from the 20th of November. 1046 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,960 And they were very upset about Brian's statistics on on 1047 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,360 Ukrainian deaths and because apparently the economist said 1048 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,360 something different. So that that was the basis of 1049 00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,720 their complaints. So the CIA was upset about? 1050 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,200 Hold on, we'll come on to that in a second. 1051 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,200 Upset about the casualty numbers Brian was presenting, I got it. 1052 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,960 Absolutely. And discussing An Inconvenient 1053 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,720 Truth with Del Victory that was that was my interview with Del 1054 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,920 Victory that was also deeply upsetting to them. 1055 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,560 And then of course green bottles, yellow cylinders and 1056 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,440 the increasingly fantastical claims made in support of Syria 1057 00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,720 Chemical weapons narrative part 4 by Doctor Pierce Robinson. 1058 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,160 That is absolutely problematic to them. 1059 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,880 And the final example that they had was the question of whether 1060 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,920 vaccines have ever worked. 1 of germ warfare's. 1061 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,640 Roman Bistrionic, co-author of Dissolving Illusions, one of the 1062 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,600 The history of vaccines. Great book by the way. 1063 00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,880 Joe Rogan was promoting that book, so it made me news. 1064 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,240 Guard need to get in touch with Joe Rogan. 1065 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,800 Anyway, yes, so, so the question, the question then is, 1066 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,880 you know, what is News Guard and what are they all about? 1067 00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:37,200 Patrick, good question. Well, according to a 2023 1068 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,000 question in the European Parliament News Guards advisory 1069 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,200 boards, as you pointed out to be earlier before the program, 1070 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,880 Patrick includes Michael Hayden, former head of the CIA and NSA, 1071 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:49,320 and also Tom Bridge, the former US Secretary of Homeland 1072 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:50,440 Security. Wait, hold on. 1073 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,600 So it's this is headed by a former CIA guy. 1074 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,680 He's on the he's on the Advisory Board. 1075 00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,880 Oh, he's, he's chairman of the board or he's, I think he's 1076 00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,720 chairman, isn't he? Michael Hayden. 1077 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,120 Anyway, the Advisory Board, Yeah, Wow. 1078 00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,560 So it's full of Spooks, including the head of the CIA. 1079 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,160 That's great, very reassuring. Absolutely. 1080 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,480 And then we've got other former senior, formerly senior U.S. 1081 00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,480 government officials, including ex heads of the security 1082 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:15,240 defense, intelligence institutions. 1083 00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,880 They're listed amongst news guards advisors, according to 1084 00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,480 this this congressional report here. 1085 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,200 So we could, could we call this a cut out? 1086 00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:25,680 Is this an intelligence government cut out? 1087 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,640 It kind of falls under that definition, doesn't it? 1088 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,880 Well, quite obviously that's what it is. 1089 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,840 But they, they probably have people, they, they hire people 1090 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,320 coming out of university who are, want a job and who are well 1091 00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,440 meaning and want to get their foot on the ladder of the, the 1092 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,480 system. So they're probably doing their 1093 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,400 the worker bees are doing their job, reaching out to nefarious 1094 00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,240 websites like the UK Column and 21st Century Wire and Consortium 1095 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:54,800 News and others. And meanwhile this is all being 1096 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,040 directed from the top. Right, absolutely. 1097 00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,400 We'll also just mention that they have previously boasted of 1098 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:04,120 government ties and Breitbart was was hissing hinting at this 1099 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,280 with their headline here. News Guard boasts of government 1100 01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:07,880 ties and censorship pitched to Twitter. 1101 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,320 And well, then we have also this. 1102 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,800 The fact that Consortium News is suing News Guard at the moment 1103 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,240 for defamation. Oh, wow. 1104 01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,840 OK. But as part of this, they're 1105 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,520 pointing out the government contracts between news Guards 1106 01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:25,480 and government agencies, including the Department of 1107 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,560 Defence. So, you know, I think, I think 1108 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,560 we don't see need to say any more about that. 1109 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,200 We understand what News Guard is, what it represents. 1110 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,160 And so if they're criticising our news coverage, I'm deeply 1111 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,160 proud of that fact. Why don't they just why doesn't 1112 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,600 the CIA just come out and just give a quote to the New York 1113 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,640 Times or, you know, a mainstream media outlets just just change 1114 01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,960 the, the heading on the on, on the organization. 1115 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,200 Just put it back under the CIA, let them publicly come out 1116 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,320 criticizing websites because isn't that what this is anyway? 1117 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,040 Absolutely. Narrative control, narrative 1118 01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,320 management. So Speaking of narratives and 1119 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,640 and politics in Britain, Mike, we have to show this story, 1120 01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,960 which made the headlines, the front page. 1121 01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,800 This was the lead story in the Huffington Post today. 1122 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,360 The Reform Party sparks outrage after receiving historic £9 1123 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,480 million donation. Democracy should never be for 1124 01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,240 sale. Who made the donation? 1125 01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,800 Let's take a look at that for a moment here. 1126 01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,600 This came from according to Electoral Commission Mike 1127 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,320 revealed that Christopher Harborne, A Boris Johnson 1128 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,880 supporter and crypto investor based in Thailand, gave the 1129 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,520 party millions of pounds in just one payment on August 1st, And 1130 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,640 this is coming on the heels of the previous donations, 1131 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,360 including, well 50,000 from Lady Rothermere. 1132 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,840 This is of daily Rothermere's Daily Mail fame and this means a 1133 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,880 reform received 10.5 million overall in the third quarter 1134 01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,480 2025 S. The Conservatives, in 1135 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,480 comparison, received almost 7 million Labor 2.5 million Lib 1136 01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,560 Dems 2.1 million. So that's what they're saying 1137 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,880 there, Mike, on the money side. So the question is, first of 1138 01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,640 all, is the crypto Bros overseas coming in backing reform, Do 1139 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,640 reform have grassroots? Do they have a ground game, 1140 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,480 first of all, for local elections to to be able to have 1141 01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,560 the kind of gains that that have been attributed to the hype 1142 01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,600 surrounding reform? And can you actually buy your 1143 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,240 way into power in this fashion in Britain? 1144 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,320 What do you think? We can talk about that an extra 1145 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,160 because we're absolutely out of time for now. 1146 01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,560 I think we they probably can, but we'll we'll, we'll discuss 1147 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:35,400 that more. An extra. 1148 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760 Yeah, yeah, brilliant. So, yeah, we'll have more 1149 01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,960 analysis on this an extra. And we'll also be talking about 1150 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:48,440 Nigel Farage as will he or will he not be head of the party by 1151 01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,000 the time the next general election rolls around? 1152 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,880 So all of that and more. Good question. 1153 01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,640 And Tim Norman is going to be joining us for more on the 1154 01:02:55,640 --> 01:03:00,000 Skripal affair, so stay with us. We'll see you in a few minutes. 1155 01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:00,760 Thanks.