1 00:00:38,470 --> 00:00:40,920 It's great to be here, Jeremy. Thanks a lot. 2 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,840 I mean, you really do have one of the best podcast and I mean 3 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,320 the courage to have Ian Papa no more Thinkenstein to do a great 4 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680 job of dealing with Zionist calamity. 5 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,120 And Kevin McDonald is another great guest. 6 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,040 You know his culture of critique books and I really enjoyed him 7 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,920 as well. And then you have Michael Eden 8 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,880 dealing with germ theory myths. So I really appreciate your and 9 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,600 Mike and Germar Rudolph and David Cole the courage to really 10 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,520 deal with everything. So I'm really thrilled to be 11 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,040 someone in their company. Thanks. 12 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,800 I just want to quickly go go to your name. 13 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,080 You were telling me now, just before we started recording, 14 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,600 what it means. Kiss the girl, did you say? 15 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,000 So kiss means beso in in Spanish. 16 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,640 So besada means a woman that has been kissed in the past. 17 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,520 So my name is Jorge, woman that has been kissed in the past. 18 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,920 So, you know, if I get married someday, my wife is going to 19 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,560 have a very good name, you know, and he never brought me any 20 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,200 problems growing up, surprisingly. 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,720 OK, so I was born in Cuba and it, it's kind of unique. 22 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,280 And I realised that later on growing up. 23 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,400 I mean, I was born deep into, like, communist ideology. 24 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,440 I was raised, you know, to be like the Soviet man. 25 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,040 I mean, I was largely raised by my grandmother. 26 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:50,960 She would pick me up from school. 27 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,080 And she's someone who had like, APHD in biology. 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,920 So she raised me like the whole Soviet thing. 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,400 You're supposed to be good in chess and, you know, not really 30 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,320 be religious. So I was born very, very deep 31 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,600 into that. And, you know, in Cuba, like I 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,080 remember having ice trucks. These are things that people in 33 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,400 my generation don't have, but we used to, you know, a lot of 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,000 times, you know, keep our food cold because a truck would 35 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,000 deliver a big block of ice and then you would break it up and 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,120 put it in your fridge. So that relates to like the 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,040 communism and the poverty that that we sort of had. 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,840 But that did play a big factor on me. 39 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:22,360 Like 1, I left Cuba when I was 7. 40 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,520 I came to Miami, which is like Cuba 2 point O when I was 11 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,280 years old. I then while going to school, 42 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,480 getting a degree in computer science, I took some courses on 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,480 anthropology, you know, just 'cause I think he just pushed me 44 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,320 from my grandmother, that the secularism. 45 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,840 And that's where I stumble first upon Herbert Spencer, who was a 46 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,360 very, who was a great evolutionary thinker. 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,920 And Herbert Spencer is the guy that coined the phrase survival 48 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:47,800 of the fittest. A lot of people don't know that. 49 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,880 And he was a contemporary of Charles Darwin. 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,000 Charles Darwin referred to Herbert Spencer as 20 times my 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,240 superior. And he also said that everyone 52 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,440 with eyes to see and ears to hear ought to bow their knee to 53 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,520 you. And I for one, do so Herbert 54 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,600 Spencer really got me in an evolutionary like perspective. 55 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,680 And then once I once I graduated from college, I met a friend. 56 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,320 His name was Ted, you know, hi, Ted. 57 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,000 I have to, you know, say hello to him. 58 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,400 And I got very lucky because a lot of us, you know, we grow up 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,800 a lot of times we're not interested in anything. 60 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,840 I never had an interested in reading in reading much. 61 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,240 But Ted transformed my life. He we had a conversation very 62 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,320 early after we started working and he said, hey, George, you 63 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:23,400 really should read these two books. 64 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,240 You should read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene and a book 65 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,160 called by Steven Levy called Artificial Life where computers 66 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,560 meet biology. So Richard Doc in Selfish Gene, 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,760 I'm sure a lot of people heard about it. 68 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,520 If you go to Amazon.com right now, it's always like two or 69 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,680 three on many Amazon.com bestsellers. 70 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,040 And it's a book that tries to show in an evolutionary manner, 71 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,320 looking at genetics and so on, why human beings can be so 72 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,200 selfish but at the same time be so altruistic, but looked at 73 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,800 from a very evolutionary perspective. 74 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,880 But then the second book, you know, it's a book that shows how 75 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,880 artificial life, you know, how in computers you can simulate 76 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,920 evolution and you can end up creating, you know, self 77 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,400 replicating molecules and you can eventually create kind of 78 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,200 like living things. So my friend right there really 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,800 pushed me in a much more evolutionary direction where you 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,960 quickly, it got me thinking, it's like, wait a minute, 81 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,200 evolution is something that creates not just a biological 82 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,360 order, but also the entire social order and the entire 83 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,920 economy and everything. And then just a few months 84 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,079 later, same friend, he tells me, hey, George, you should read 85 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,360 this book. It's called The Road to Serfdom 86 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,640 by a very famous economist who won the Nobel Prize in 1974. 87 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,800 And his name is Friedrich Hayek. So I read that book and the 88 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,000 first time I read any book like in political economy or 89 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,480 anything, I mean, I only understood like, you know, 10% 90 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,960 of it, but it's not the book I would recommend people to get 91 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,360 like into economics. But it did get me eventually 92 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,160 down the path to meet the so called Austrian school 93 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,840 economist, you know, that are really these men really are like 94 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:49,680 the backbone of freedom. All the the free market 95 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,640 movements that we've seen, I'm sure I'm assuming even in South 96 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,160 Africa, you've heard of like Ron Paul, you familiar with Ron Paul 97 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,240 And actually I'll be at his 90th birth, 90th birthday, which is 98 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,960 coming up tomorrow. And so Ron Paul, when Ron Paul 99 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,320 was a medical student at Duke University, he stumbled upon 100 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,120 Hayek's the road to serve them. And that is what made him like 101 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,680 like a free marketeer. Margaret Thatcher as well. 102 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,600 She was an 18 year old student at Oxford when she read The Road 103 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,560 to Serve and that got her into understanding freedom. 104 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,160 Javier Miley, who is now a, you know, a free market guy in 105 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,280 Argentina, he too stumbled upon one of the works of the 106 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:24,920 Austrians. And, and it's great because he 107 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,320 admitted that he had already been an economist, but he said 108 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,360 that for 25 years everything I've been teaching was wrong 109 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,440 until I stumbled upon the Austrians. 110 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,760 And the last person I'll mention, Ayn Rand, a lot of 111 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:35,960 people are familiar with her works. 112 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,240 You know, she was a very pro capitalism person. 113 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,160 And she too, she herself said that, quote, the greatest thing 114 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,200 that ever happened to me regarding political economies 115 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,000 was running into Ludwig von Mises. 116 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,560 So that really is the foundation for a lot of her work. 117 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,800 And so I eventually stumble up on these people and, and their 118 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,760 and their ethos and really the ethos of what I try to do. 119 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240 I like Macy's, he said. Quote, all reasonable men are 120 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,680 called upon to familiarise themselves with the teachings of 121 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,000 economics. This is in our age, the primary 122 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,680 civic duty. And you know, when you 123 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,120 understand that it's economic ignorance that then leads to all 124 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,800 the statism and all this coercion and this lack of 125 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,520 prosperity, you know, like Meses, I'm like, wait a minute, 126 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,920 we have to educate people. And so that's really like how I 127 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,640 got, you know, to where I am. And and one more thing I'll say 128 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,000 about like the Austrians is that they were, they were also 129 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,200 something a lot of people don't realise. 130 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,360 They were deep like evolutionary minded thinkers. 131 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,920 They, they look at the root causes of like how things sort 132 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,240 of like evolved, how our identities, how how our cultures 133 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,000 like Co evolved with the entire economy. 134 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,880 So. The the, the whole evolutionary 135 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,400 aspect goes beyond biology. I mean, you have the evolution 136 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,920 of culture and the evolution of societies. 137 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,680 I think I got into Mises maybe about 11 years ago. 138 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,000 I've had a love hate relationship since then with the 139 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,440 sort of free market ideas because I've often found that 140 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:09,280 that individuals who promote their work tend to focus only on 141 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,080 on economics and tend to forget about the importance of of 142 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,160 things that are downstream from culture. 143 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,480 In other words, economics is downstream from culture. 144 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,800 I mean, it's very complex and they really feed off of each 145 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,280 other. So sometimes you can get a a 146 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,160 bureaucrat or someone who comes up with good economic policy, 147 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,800 and then that good economic policy can shape the culture. 148 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,360 And you know, because, for example, economic competition 149 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,240 also shapes our morals. It is hardworking, tolerant, 150 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,240 courteous people who show up on time and treat everyone else 151 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,240 with respect, who thanks to economic competition, motivate 152 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,920 everyone else to be likewise right. 153 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,280 So if you have the right economic policies, you 154 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,440 inadvertently end up creating a culture of hard work, of 155 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,560 tolerance, of treating everyone with respect and and so on. 156 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,400 But you know, they really do grow from each other. 157 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,880 And you know, so I'll tell you like 1-1 more quote that relates 158 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,400 to this whole like evolutionary thing. 159 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,480 So, so Friedrich Hayek, he mentioned, he mentioned the 160 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,440 following. He said we understand now that 161 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,440 all enduring structures above the level of the simplest atoms 162 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,440 up to the brain and society are the results of and can be 163 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,120 explained only in terms of processes of selective 164 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,120 evolution. So to the Austrians and Hayek is 165 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,800 like an evolutionary process shapes not just the biological 166 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,840 order, but also like the social order culture. 167 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,080 And this really relates to, to, to even how we look at, at the 168 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,520 world, like do gentile conflicts. 169 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,880 If we want to understand the chaos that's going on in 170 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,559 Palestine, you know, we can't just say that, OK, these are the 171 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,360 good guys or the bad guys. You know, in the animal Kingdom, 172 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,720 when I think sometimes, like when a lion takes over a pride, 173 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,920 you know, and they have, sometimes they'll kill the Cubs, 174 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,720 the, the females can mate again or something like that, right? 175 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,240 We we don't say that the lion is evil. 176 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Now we understand that there's an evolutionary reason why all 177 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,840 these bad things happen. And to the Austrians, I think 178 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,680 since they looked at things in a very evolutionary way, they also 179 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:01,480 were very detached. They said, look, a lot of things 180 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,080 are just the result of the complex evolution of history and 181 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,800 the mistakes that people made. And we really want to understand 182 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,000 these mistakes in order to like, you know, to make sense of 183 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,240 things instead of just calling people like good and evil. 184 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,120 Modern society becomes so artificial that it it moves so 185 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,960 far away from natural order. Yeah, no, that, that is a great 186 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,160 point. And and this has a lot to do 187 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,960 also with economics. So like Friedrich Hayek, he was 188 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,440 well aware that human beings evolved in this little tribal 189 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,760 cultures where there was no money, where we intuitively 190 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,600 share things, where there was a lot of violence, right. 191 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,240 So we have carried those things. Those instincts are actually 192 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,240 what motivate us in many ways to fall for for central planning, 193 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,920 since we evolved in a world where there was no money, where 194 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,800 there was no economic competition, where there was no 195 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,080 interest rates, where there was there was no finance and 196 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,240 banking. In today's modern world, all of 197 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,200 those things are very foreign to our instincts. 198 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,600 So the first thing that intuitively comes to us is if 199 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,400 there is rich, if there's people who have more than the solution 200 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,720 is just to take from the wealthy and redistribute. 201 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,000 So there's a great book by David Rubin is called Darwinian 202 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,840 Politics, where he tries to look also at how we have evolved in 203 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,200 these little tribes and how those instincts make us less 204 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,600 adapted to living in a modern world where we really need to 205 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,800 respect private property and the freedom of people so that we 206 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,120 have a like a prosperous society. 207 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,400 But it is also true how we are again, our our instincts are not 208 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,360 ideally suited to living in modernity. 209 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,880 And we have to be aware of those things, how that makes us 210 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,480 inadvertently far from communism, but to also know who 211 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,920 we are, right. The kind of foods we ate. 212 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,880 I know you had Nina Teals. I forgot her name. 213 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,440 How in many ways, you know, we evolved to eat like more meat 214 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,640 and, and, and just like a natural diet. 215 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,640 And now we're living in this world with all this processed 216 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,360 food. It is just one of those many 217 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,120 areas where modernity has inadvertently shipped our 218 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,000 environment, where we are totally detached from the 219 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:57,840 evolutionary order where we were ideally made to like, you know, 220 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,600 to thrive. And that's one of the things 221 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,240 that we have to figure out. We have to be aware of those 222 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,480 things and to see, well, how can we eat natural, you know, and 223 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,440 how has modernity taken us away from this and how we can maybe, 224 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,000 you know, find that type of balance. 225 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,080 So again, the Austrians are really people who who help look 226 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,600 at, you know, the how all this whole mess is kind of like a, 227 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,360 you know, evolve. When you talk about Austrian 228 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,320 economics, the layperson will assume you're talking about 229 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,600 Austria. Right, right. 230 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,040 It's not quite that. So the Austrian economics really 231 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,440 comes from the fact that the main founder, this man called 232 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,240 Karl Manger, he was from from that from that area. 233 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,560 And Karl Manger, again, very important, he was a deep like 234 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:39,400 evolutionary thinker. And he, one of his main 235 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,640 contributions was to say, OK, we're going to study the, the 236 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,240 social, we're going to study society as an Organism using 237 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,840 the, using the tools of biology. So instead of having this world 238 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,880 of mathematics and all these formulas or believing you can 239 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,760 predict all these things, he said, no, no, no, The way to 240 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,960 understand society is to try to see how things sort of have 241 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,160 evolved and treat it as a social Organism. 242 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,760 And one of these, what I like to call the like the flux capacitor 243 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:10,000 discovery of like the social sciences is his, his, how he 244 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,120 showed how money, OK money, it is vital for everything in money 245 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,640 in modern society. Money is really what enables 246 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,400 like the division of, of labour and information that creates 247 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,680 like the social order. So this is a very important 248 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:24,000 simple example. Like if you look at a tribal 249 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,640 society, if you look at the, the content of people's minds, they 250 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,640 all have the same information. Everybody knows how to just hunt 251 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,680 some simple things, how to cook some simple meals. 252 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,200 The information is repeated across every brain. 253 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,000 But once you have trade, you have this every brain, the you 254 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,160 have the division of information. 255 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,920 Every brain can learn how to do just one thing. 256 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,840 I can make coconut pastries. And then when I trade my coconut 257 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,640 pastries for the guy who makes like, you know, chairs, I don't 258 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,240 have to know anything about the chairs. 259 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:56,920 I can trade my coconut pastries for the guy who makes Beaver 260 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,480 pelts or, or brains or makes boats, and I don't have to know 261 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,160 anything about the boats. So trade creates a division of 262 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,280 information that then allows you to have a society where you can 263 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,560 have doctors, computer programmers and all those 264 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,120 things. So you can now have unlimited 265 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,360 amounts of information. But in order for you to have 266 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,920 trade, like you need to overcome what's called double coincidence 267 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,800 of 1's problem. Like if I have my coconut 268 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,080 pastries and I want to trade them for the guy who has the the 269 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,040 Beaver pelt, what are the chances that he wants my coconut 270 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,280 pastries? Very small chance. 271 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,760 So once you have money, then anybody can trade and then the 272 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,720 benefits of the division of information can spread through 273 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,280 our whole society and then you can start just having progress 274 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:37,840 and build living standards and so on. 275 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,000 So without money, if we didn't have money tomorrow, in a matter 276 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,680 of months, society would just collapse. 277 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,400 You know, there would be no coordination, no production. 278 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,360 And we go back to like, you know, living like living like 279 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,440 primitive savages. So, but the key inside of 280 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,000 Carmenger, he showed that money, which is something that is vital 281 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,640 for economic competition, competition, profit or loss 282 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,840 calculation, everything that creates the modern social order 283 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,280 was not the result of our reason. 284 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,360 We never had some great genius say, oh, we're going to invent 285 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,160 money so we can overcome the division of, you know, the 286 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,720 coins, double coins, There's a once problem, you know, so we 287 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,360 can have profit and loss calculation, economic 288 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,840 competition. We never had that. 289 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,760 You know, it's just like the cells in your body over millions 290 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,080 of years, they created the respiratory, the circulatory, 291 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,400 the digestive systems that allow single cells to cooperate into 292 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,080 multicellular systems. But obviously the cells did not 293 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,120 design that right. The exact same thing happened 294 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,160 with a social order, human beings, without realising it, 295 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,760 they invented money and then they invented profit loss 296 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,840 calculation and all the things that make the social Organism 297 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,840 work without realising it. So that is a key insight that 298 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,880 Karl Manger came up with that help further members of the 299 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,480 Austrian school really understand why we fall for all 300 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,960 this errors. You know, that's what socialism 301 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,320 was in in the late 1800s. Society was getting so complex, 302 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,480 you know, businessmen were creating so much wealth and 303 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,640 people thought to themselves, wait a minute, this is unfair. 304 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,360 Why have 20 businessmen get rich? 305 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,960 Why not just have a couple of experts tell everybody else what 306 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,480 to do? We can share the wealth. 307 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,400 And that is what it led to. Socialist mythology spread. 308 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,640 And then you'll bring about, you know, communism and so on. 309 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,440 So anyway, I went on a big tangent there. 310 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,800 Do you think that hyper individualism has also led to 311 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,880 part of what we're seeing in the West now with the collapse, 312 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,760 where people are no longer interested in their communities, 313 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,680 families, because they're only interested in this in in 314 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,280 themselves with their cell phone and their Airpods? 315 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,840 I, I don't think so. I mean, one of the things I 316 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,080 don't like about like libertarians sometimes and some 317 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,440 of these hyper individualism, sometimes you run into some 318 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,720 libertarians on hardcore free market people that they'll tell 319 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,800 you, Oh, I have a right to have a nuclear weapon in my house. 320 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,520 You know, who are you to tell me that I that I can't do this, I 321 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,760 have a right to do this and this. 322 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,120 And, and it is true. Some of these people are just 323 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,120 like little automatons, you know, they're not thinking about 324 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,200 society at large and how they affects the rest of society. 325 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,680 So, so I see, I agree with you in that sense that there are a 326 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,840 lot of hyper individualist that really just end up putting 327 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,120 people off and so on. But I, I do think like the 328 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,360 reason why we have a lot of these problems are people are so 329 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,760 segregated as well. A lot of it just has to do with, 330 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,440 with government intervention, you know, the governments, I 331 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,960 mean, when in the United States, you're blowing $1.5 trillion 332 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,480 every year to finance this massive military. 333 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 I mean, that's as much wealth as the entire country of Spain 334 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,360 produces. And, and, and you're, you're 335 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,800 printing up all this money, all this debt, you know, ultimately 336 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,480 just to, you know, to, to sustain Zionism actually, you 337 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,080 know, and I, I do think that if we had a better economy, I do 338 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,640 think people would, would not be as isolated, you know, but it is 339 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,600 very hard to predict. We really can't predict what's 340 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,680 going to happen once we get like sex robots and all of these 341 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,720 things. So I, I do, that's, that's the 342 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,200 thing. Like no one can really predict 343 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,640 where freedom and how civilization is going to evolve. 344 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,640 I, I hope it evolves in a way where, where we get in touch 345 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,480 with our human nature. We know we're slightly smarter 346 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,680 apes. We need other human beings 347 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,640 around us. We need touch, we need 348 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,000 friendships and all these things. 349 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:06,760 But again, it's actually hard to predict. 350 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,640 But to wrap up, I mean, I think what's really causing all these 351 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,000 problems is is the economic ignorance that that leads to all 352 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,319 the statism that makes it hard for people to, you know, to have 353 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:16,640 kids. I mean, how how many women these 354 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,000 days can really afford, you know, to have children? 355 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,079 How many families can do it? It's getting harder and harder 356 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:22,720 and harder. And then that has all kinds of 357 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,920 other like, repercussions. So yeah, there's a lot of 358 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,720 annoying pro freedom people. But at the same time, you know, 359 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,640 I think the problem is more like the economic issues that tend to 360 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,400 all the statism. It's also about trying to 361 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,720 preserve a history and preserve a culture. 362 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,720 Here in South Africa you've got the the bulls who became the 363 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,200 Afrikaners. If if they were all hyper 364 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,280 individuals there would be no Afrikaner culture. 365 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,560 Well, you mentioned the wars and you guys in South Africa. 366 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,080 I mean, I wish you had finished off Churchill when you had the 367 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:56,600 opportunity. OK, He escaped, right, Right. 368 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,480 And then he wrote all these things about how great he was. 369 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,160 But. But yeah, I mean, you know, this 370 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,440 really touches, you know, a lot of these conflicts. 371 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,120 If, if, if everyone had a better understanding of freedom and 372 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,680 free markets and we just respect their private property. 373 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,640 And we have companies always competing against each other, 374 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,680 innovating, you know, 'cause that's what free market 375 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,840 competition does. It turns the entire planet into 376 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,360 a supercomputer where every private sector company is 377 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,920 innovating and copying the innovations of others, 378 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,680 constantly spreading the best ideas to society, bringing 379 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,560 prosperity. Like I said earlier, it also 380 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,160 civilises us. And a lot of these chaos, we, we 381 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,040 just have to find a way to educate people so that we no 382 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,320 longer have this identity versus identity type of things, which 383 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,120 obviously you have in South Africa. 384 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,600 And I mean, and obviously the, the Israeli Palestinian chaos, 385 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,680 just like, you know, grows from that. 386 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,800 And I do very quickly. I wanted to throw another quote 387 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,800 from Mises because since this man had this very evolutionary 388 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,720 way of looking at things, they were also very sympathetic 389 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,240 towards trying to understand our problems. 390 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,320 So Mises said neither as judges allot in praise and blame, nor 391 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,960 as Avengers seeking out the guilty, should we face the past. 392 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,240 We seek truth, not guilt. We want to know how things came 393 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,320 about, to understand them, not to issue condemnations. 394 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,480 And one more, history should teach us to recognise causes and 395 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,840 to understand driving forces. And when we understand 396 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,160 everything, we will forgive everything. 397 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,200 So again, that's part of the ethos of these men is it's about 398 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,280 understanding because again, you know, it's all about blaming 399 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,320 each other, you know, who are the good guys, who are the bad 400 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,800 guys? And that's just driving us, you 401 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,280 know, to more conflicts. A lot of people fool themselves 402 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,160 into thinking that just because modernity and modern capitalism 403 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,560 arose from Europe, where we got the industrial revolution and so 404 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,520 on, this leads to a lot of misguided, like racialist type 405 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,440 of thinking. And you can't really blame for 406 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,040 white people for feeling like, oh, you know, modernity came up 407 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,240 in Europe and then therefore it must be somehow tied to our 408 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,320 genes. That's a very popular fallacy. 409 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:52,280 And it's the root of a lot of this, you know, white ethno 410 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:53,880 nationalist, you know, kind of nonsense. 411 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,720 But again, as Meses himself even mentioned, Meses said, like, if 412 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,720 you look at modern civilization, it arose from other 413 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,680 civilizations. I mean, where would we be if it 414 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,480 if it wasn't, you know, for, for the Egyptians, I mean, the, the 415 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,480 Arabic numerals, you know, where those things come from, you 416 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,120 know, so right. And, and a lot of civilizations 417 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,640 that were in the Middle East and in other places where we didn't 418 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,760 have, you know, the pasty white people and, and we are seeing 419 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,040 right now. What, what you're hinting at, 420 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,440 you know, the Chinese are the ones that are, they're not 421 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,320 getting stuck up with all these like weird things that we're 422 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,000 doing. Sure, they had the, the 423 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,240 communist experiment, they survived it. 424 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,760 But now, I mean, I've been to China and again, you just have 425 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,800 people working and it makes sense why they are, you know, 426 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,360 overtaking us. You mentioned Hayek's book, The 427 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,720 Road to Serfdom. It's was, it's one of the first 428 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,520 books that I read from, from that sort of category of of 429 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,040 ideas. But you've spoken a lot about 430 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,640 Mises. I think the only book I've read 431 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,880 of his is Human Action, but it is a great book. 432 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,160 Wow. Wow. 433 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,360 I mean, yeah, that is a great book. 434 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:01,560 And actually, you know, in Human Action, I mean, there's so much 435 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,040 wisdom in there. And one of the sections in Human 436 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,280 Action, I wrote a little article about it at the Mises Institute, 437 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,480 is called The Fight Against Error. 438 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,680 So there's a section in there where Mises talks about how we 439 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,440 really need to fight errors. Mises says that we cannot get 440 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,200 too deep into the moral sphere and make people who have 441 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,160 different views from us into, like, evil. 442 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,880 And Mises rightly notice how you get a lot of that between, like, 443 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,200 the religious Catholic people and the Marxists. 444 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,800 You know, they were attacking each other. 445 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,680 I mean, obviously the Marxists saw religious people as 446 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,760 irrational people that you needed to get rid of to have 447 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,160 your socialist Nirvana. And religious people made the 448 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,160 mistake of referring to the communist as satanic, as evil. 449 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,440 So when you have that attitude, as Mises said, you know, no 450 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,640 social cooperation, you know, can be found there. 451 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,880 And the same thing applies to the Israeli Palestinian 452 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,080 conflict. A lot of people want to say that 453 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,400 the Israelis are just, you know, a bunch of evil, you know, 454 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,640 conquerors, especially from the very left wing, The very left 455 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,360 wing lost to equate Israel with racist capitalism, right? 456 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,120 You know, without really looking at the complex history of anti 457 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,200 Semitism and so on. And then the Jews, the Israelis 458 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,680 unfortunately do the same thing. You know, they just say all 459 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,320 these guys are a bunch of like extremists, you know, you know, 460 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,240 terrorists and so on. But getting back to the road to 461 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,280 serve them, right, So that book is really one of two ways in 462 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,240 which the Austrians saved like civilization a little earlier 463 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,600 before the road to serve them. So Ludwig von Mises, when the 464 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,680 Bolsheviks took over, Ludwig von Mises by himself, and I really 465 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,080 want to read this little quote here from Mises by himself. 466 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,720 He managed to talk to the Austrian politicians and he 467 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,120 persuaded them, just one man against joining the Bolsheviks 468 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,000 and becoming like a part of the Soviet Union. 469 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,040 I mean, that's incredible. So I got a little quote from 470 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,600 Mises. This is what he what he said 471 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,640 about his life in 1919. He said there were few who 472 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,760 recognised the state of affairs. Clearly people were so convinced 473 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,200 of the inevitability of Bolshevism that their main 474 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,800 concern was securing a federal place for themselves in the new 475 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,520 order. The Catholic Church and its 476 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,000 followers, the Christian Social Party, were prepared to befriend 477 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,880 the Bolsheviks with the same eagerness with which the bishops 478 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,880 and archbishops would embrace National Socialism 20 years 479 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,920 later. And Mises said the most 480 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,120 important task I undertook was the 4th starting of a Bolshevest 481 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,960 takeover. The fact that events did not 482 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,160 lead to such a regime change in Vienna was my success and mine 483 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,400 alone. Few supported me in my efforts. 484 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,680 I alone convinced Bauer, you know, the leading politicians to 485 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,640 abandon the idea of seeking union with Moscow. 486 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,840 So Mises again, incredible that one man was able to do that. 487 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,360 And then this ties into Hayek because Mises, for a while he he 488 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,560 kind of hired Hayek, you know, to be a part of like a think 489 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,960 tank in Austria. And then just a few years later, 490 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,080 Mrs would write in 1922, he would write a book, Socialism, 491 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,520 which was just like, you know, incredible. 492 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,440 And then Hayek read that book and that really transformed him. 493 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,800 It helped him. And then Hayek got a job at the 494 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,880 at the London School of Economics, where quickly Hayek 495 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,040 became like one of the most respected people there. 496 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,960 And then during the end of the Second World War, that's when 497 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,520 Hayek realised that the British, they think that because they 498 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,640 have a democracy that they're going to be shielded from the 499 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,680 hardcore tyranny that Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union 500 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,120 got. But Hayek got the idea to write 501 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:09,600 the Road to serve them, to warn them. 502 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,160 They, they kept asking for all this government stuff, more 503 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,520 power to a central competition, immune course of bureaucracy 504 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,800 that they were on the way, you know, to the road to serve them. 505 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,320 And that's when he wrote that book and another nice little 506 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,560 tidbit in there. When Hyatt wrote that book, he 507 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,800 was expected to come to the United States and just go on a 508 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,760 little speaking toward to some small campuses, you know, or 509 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,160 whatever. But thanks to Henry Haslett was 510 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,360 another. Henry Haslett wrote Economics in 511 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,560 One Lesson, which is that the most widely read economics book. 512 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,400 So Henry Haslett was working at the New York Times at the time 513 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,240 and he read Hayek's book and he loved it. 514 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,640 And he managed to put a great review of the book on the front 515 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,720 page of the reader's section of The New York Times. 516 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,840 So that created a sensation of like, interest in the book. 517 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,520 So when how he came to the United States, his first talk 518 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,480 was given him like a basketball stadium to like 3000 people. 519 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,440 And then later on, I, I just want to throw in another great 520 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,520 like champion of like freedom. There was a gentleman, his name 521 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,840 is Max Eastman, and he was the most, one of the most famous 522 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,520 socialists in the United States. This is a man that had gone to 523 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,480 Moscow in the 1920s who was a good friend of Trotsky. 524 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,080 He translated Trotsky's works into English, but Max Eastman 525 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,800 stumbled upon Meses and Hayek and he made a 180 and he became 526 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,880 a free marketeer. So he took Hayek's book, The 527 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,160 Road to serve them, and he created a condensed version, 528 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,880 which is only 40 pages, and that managed to be sold to over a 529 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,640 million homes in the United States. 530 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,320 And that ended up educating so many people like, you know, Ron 531 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,000 Paul, I think I might have mentioned earlier, he was a 532 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,240 medical student at Duke University when he stumbled upon 533 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,800 and also Margaret Thatcher Milton. 534 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,160 Friedman. Milton Friedman, he, he was a 535 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,480 big fan of Hayek and he even mentioned that that Hayek, you 536 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,320 know, played a big role. I don't know how much Milton 537 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,120 Friedman's education came from meses. 538 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:51,920 I think, you know, since they were around the same time, I 539 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,360 think his major ideologues were other people. 540 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:55,680 He was another, but he was another person who was greatly 541 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,360 influenced by the by the Austrians. 542 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,120 So I got between Mises and Hayek, between Mises saving us 543 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,680 from joining the Bolsheviks, and Hayek with his role to serve 544 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,600 them it. They really did like safe 545 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,680 civilization almost twice. Have you noticed how many people 546 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,840 are suddenly pulled back into the system because of somebody 547 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,360 like Donald Trump? Because now suddenly the state 548 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:20,080 is the good guy again, but it's the same state that was 549 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,440 oppressing. People. 550 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,120 Yeah. And I mean, this is something a 551 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:27,920 lot of us, you know, have noticed. 552 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,600 I mean, in many ways it has helped a little bit, right? 553 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,400 Because the COVID mania tyranny, I mean, it got so many of us to 554 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,040 wake up and say, OK, something needs, needs to happen. 555 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,280 I mean, this is very personal because if I was, I was working, 556 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,480 I had a comfortable job at Microsoft. 557 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,680 You know, when the COVID mania tyranny came. 558 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,320 And by the time COVID mania tyranny came, I, I've already 559 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,360 been in the world of freedom. I, I, I, I understand the 560 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,280 Bolshevik revolution, how, how the masses through economic 561 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,160 ignorance can just self mutilate. 562 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,960 And that really motivated me to, to, to get off my butt and get 563 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:01,840 more involved. Maybe the reason why you stumble 564 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,920 up on me now, because there's a, there's thousands of 565 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,280 libertarians and people like myself. 566 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,120 Well, we read books, we're writing a little book or 567 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,120 something. But it took the covet mania to 568 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,080 say, OK, wait a minute. You know, I got to get out 569 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,520 there. I got to meet other people, you 570 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,240 know, I got to get involved and do something. 571 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,960 And, and this also helped fuel like the Javier Miley revolution 572 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,200 as well. It was the covet tyranny. 573 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,600 When you look at Javiers malaise, what he did in 574 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,160 Argentina, the COVID mania, Tyrion and the lockdowns, it 575 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,840 really motivated him and many like minded people to try to do 576 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,360 something. And I like to call it the 577 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,680 Korominism, you know? So yeah. 578 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,640 And yeah, that's why just like you said, we're noticing that we 579 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,000 need to understand, you know, the history of the 20th century. 580 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,440 And it's really the good thing is that thanks to these men, to 581 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,720 these Austrians that explain all of these things and the Milton 582 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,080 Friedman are all of these people that now our generation has to 583 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,520 really like nip it in the butt. I mean, we really have to like, 584 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,480 finish this. If if, if freedom is something 585 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:59,160 that matters to you then then relying less on the government 586 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,840 should be a no brainer. Yeah, but you know, it's very 587 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,640 important, you know, to realise that, for example, you, I mean, 588 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,040 you already read human action. I mean, you're someone who is 589 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,040 deep in in the freedom world. But we have to realise that the 590 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,920 masses are clueless, right? The people are clueless. 591 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,240 If, if, if there is no people out there. 592 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,800 There's another quote. I mean, I don't remember it, but 593 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,160 but Mises said that liberalism is rationalistic. 594 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,320 It believes that with reason we can, we can educate the immense 595 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,880 masses. I mean, I'm butchering the 596 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,040 quote, you know. And Mises also says that it 597 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,200 could be that liberals are wrong, that maybe we can't 598 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,120 convince the masses. But if, but if we do not even 599 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,600 try, if we don't have the, if we don't have the attitude where we 600 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,360 think that we can educate the masses, then there's no whole 601 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,840 life for mankind. If, if those of us who know 602 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,560 better don't educate people, then we're, we're obviously 603 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,320 going to have more socialism, more, more statism and we see it 604 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,840 all around us. So I mean, that too is part of 605 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,960 the Misesian ethos. So we have to realise that those 606 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,360 of us who are for individual rights, for, for self reliance 607 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,880 on a lot of this stuff, a lot of times we don't realise that we 608 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,480 got lucky and we stumble upon the right ideas and we have to 609 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:05,840 go out there and educate these people. 610 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,720 Even though I, I understand 90% of the time they're calling you 611 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,240 names, they're calling you a right wing extremist and that 612 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,640 kind of stuff. And but again, you know, we have 613 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,120 to be, we have to spread the econo gospel. 614 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,600 That's what I like to call it. You are aware, though, that a 615 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,640 number of my listeners are going to dismiss a lot of what you're 616 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,800 saying because you mentioned Miley, for example, and he's a 617 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,120 Zionist. That's that's a great point. 618 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,880 And but that just goes to show how very bright people can still 619 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,320 make monumental errors, right? And again, you know, I have to 620 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920 throw a great high quote, which really applies not only because 621 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,280 I like to see Zionism as a massive intellectual error that 622 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,800 fooled a lot of bright people, just like communism, right? 623 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,880 I can't say my grandmother was a hardcore communist, was either 624 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,280 stupid or evil. And to me, we have to look at 625 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,120 the Zionist the same way, people who understandably fool 626 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,200 themselves into a monumental calamity. 627 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,080 So this is what Hayek said. Hayek said most people are still 628 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,480 unwilling to face the most alarming lesson of modern 629 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,000 history, that the greatest crimes of our time have been 630 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,960 committed by governments that had the enthusiastic support of 631 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,440 millions of people who were guided by moral impulses. 632 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,080 It is simply not true that Hitler or Mussolini, Lenin or 633 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,080 Stalin appealed only to the worst instincts of their people. 634 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,400 They also appeal to some of the feelings which also dominate 635 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,880 contemporary democracies. Boom. 636 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,520 And the Zionists are out there thinking that they have the 637 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,440 moral high ground that that no matter what happens, if they 638 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,320 have to expel the Palestinians, this is all, you know, we're 639 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,160 doing the moral thing. They're the irrational 640 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,040 terrorists. So it's a, it's a great quote 641 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,480 showing how, you know, we can fool ourselves into these things 642 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,200 and. One of the problems with 643 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,920 individualism is that it opens more people up to the idea of 644 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,040 globalism and therefore infiltration of the mind by sort 645 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,960 of these these big agendas that are going on around us. 646 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,000 And, and, and therefore it's important to have a collective 647 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,080 group of people who can buffer against or you can resist. 648 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,240 You know that in other words, a sovereign state. 649 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,880 I'm. Very sympathetic to, to that 650 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:23,120 sort of thinking, you know, in a way because I think the push for 651 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,640 globalism, I mean, globalism is also just global free trade. 652 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,960 It's also the respect of individual rights, you know, for 653 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,160 people all over the world. So we don't, you know, there are 654 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,160 two forces kind of like pushing, you have people who feel like, 655 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,880 wait a minute, I should be free to, to maybe travel to South 656 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,160 Africa or, or, or live there or marry someone from there. 657 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,320 So on the one hand, the globalism, the good globalism is 658 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,240 just more integration, more freedom for people to respect 659 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,160 individual rights and so on. But at the same time, again, the 660 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,920 world is very complex. We're also realising that if you 661 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,440 just have something like, you know, like open borders, right? 662 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,160 You know, then suddenly an entire culture or language that 663 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,760 took thousands of years to develop can suddenly be wiped 664 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,840 out by an invading. We're seeing that happening 665 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,400 across Europe of. Course that is happening in 666 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,360 Europe and so on. So I, I am very sympathetic 667 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,920 towards the people who feel like, wait a minute, just 668 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,080 because I want to have some kind of like borders and I want to be 669 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,400 able to prevent our language and our culture or even if it's our, 670 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,200 our, our DNA, you know, I don't think those people should be 671 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,240 vilified, you know, as being like, you know, the precursors 672 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,040 to like the Nazis and so on. I mean, as long as we 673 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,000 understand, you know, some some basic things, but I, I can see 674 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,760 how that then relates, you know, because then we get some real 675 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,120 hardcore Nazis, you know, some people say, oh, I don't want any 676 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,040 immigrants, you know, this kind of stuff. 677 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,800 So, yeah, so it's very tricky. You know, I think we should just 678 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,560 do our best to understand all of these complexities and then have 679 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,200 some like reasonable policy that is not based on just pure 680 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,840 racism, you know, or coercing people to have their culture 681 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,120 destroyed, you know, because I, you know, so, yeah, it's very 682 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,400 complex. So the best we can do is just 683 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,880 understand and. Or or. 684 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,480 For example, if a group of individuals want to create their 685 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,560 own town, then they should be free to do so. 686 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,320 Yeah, of course, right, right. And that gets to anarcho 687 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,600 capitalism, you know, and Mary Rob, I mean, you know, because 688 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,080 if competition is how we discover the best way to build 689 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,000 products, why not have competition in legal systems, 690 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,640 right. So yeah, of course people should 691 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:22,680 have the freedom to do all those things. 692 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,760 I'm totally fine with with some hyper race to say, well, only 693 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,280 white people are going to be allowed in here. 694 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,040 I don't think it's ever going to happen because people naturally, 695 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,560 based on the connections that they make out of work, you know, 696 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,840 and so on. So a lot of people fear this 697 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,600 hyper, you know, racism, but it's not really going to happen 698 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,200 if you just have freedom. Human beings will discover that 699 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,960 we're all just homo sapiens and it'll evolve a culture, you 700 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,200 know, all that. So yeah, I, I'm totally fine. 701 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,640 Yeah. And who knows what's going to 702 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,360 happen too. I mean, we are getting all of 703 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,320 these changes, whether it's sex, robots, all kinds of, I mean, 704 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,720 I'm against, you know, a lot of these things. 705 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,400 I understand how, you know, it took 4 billion years to create 706 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,840 something as as well made as a human being. 707 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,280 And a lot of these experts think that with the little pills, 708 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,000 right? I mean, you and I know that all 709 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,480 these pills just destroy the biochemical order. 710 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,840 You know, that took 4 billion years to create. 711 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,000 So just like in the social order, this this stupid central 712 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,679 planners think that they can better coordinate society and 713 00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,800 they actually destroy something that evolved, you know, through 714 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,360 freedom and exchange. They're doing the same thing 715 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:20,639 with medicine. You know, they're destroying the 716 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,520 biochemical order. Anyway, I got in a weird tangent 717 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,400 there, but. It's a book by Human Hop called 718 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,520 Democracy the God that Failed. And I keep going back to that 719 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,760 because he he speaks about monarchy being preferable to 720 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,400 democracy. And one of his arguments is that 721 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,040 a monarch owns his land, so therefore it's private property. 722 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,280 Sure. I mean, it's a great book, 723 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,800 right? The Marcus of the God, I felt I 724 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,520 read it as well. And yeah, he he, I remember 725 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,040 being shocked, you know, by that thing where we're like a monarch 726 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,080 really has to control his country, his private property, 727 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,639 and treat it well instead of the Democratic politicians that just 728 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:59,320 plunder the whole thing. And I can totally see how if we 729 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,960 have more freedom, you know, I can see Elon Musk by his own 730 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,800 city and then he can become his own little monarch there. 731 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,280 And but those are things that you and I tolerate because we 732 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,440 understand, you know, how freedom works. 733 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,840 So I can totally see that happening. 734 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,160 And, you know, I look forward to that. 735 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,040 I look forward to a Motown themed city, you know, where 736 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,360 it's about, you know, the great singers in Motown or having a 737 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,520 city where the people dress it up in their mediaeval ways. 738 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,280 And because the the truth is that as long as the masses 739 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,000 remain ignorant, what good does it do us to have our own little 740 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,480 island where maybe we have a little bit of freedom, but the 741 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,240 masses destroy the worldwide division of labour in a nuclear 742 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:39,800 war, you know, the Zionist calamity sparks another World 743 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,440 War, you know. So economic education is really. 744 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,280 What do you think is our natural way of doing things? 745 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,320 Let's just say that you and I are dumped into an island in the 746 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,840 middle of nowhere. If you and I end up in an 747 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,200 island, you and I understand like freedom, we have already 748 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,120 inherited a culture that respects other people. 749 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,440 So there's all this software that took thousands of years to 750 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,920 get into our minds. So I'm sure we would do, you 751 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,320 know, great, right? But the truth is like 752 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,440 instinctively we're, we're dangerous animals, you know, I 753 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,520 mean, human beings. We can use our wisdom to make 754 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,840 like our nukes. I mean, assuming the nukes 755 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,440 exist, you know, and you know, the, the Spanish Inquisitors had 756 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,240 a lot of wisdom, but they used that wisdom to create torture 757 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,560 devices, you know, to do all kinds of things. 758 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,800 So you know it intuitively. We have to realise that 759 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,680 modernity just arose in the last 10,000 years, 10,000 years ago 760 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,880 we were out there having sex with animals. 761 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,680 You know, we were, there's a reason why the Bible tells you, 762 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,680 tells women, you know, do not lay with a beast because 10,000 763 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,920 years ago, before we civilised ourselves to respect private 764 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,160 property, you know, we were wild animalistic people. 765 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,160 So that that's very important. We have to realise that we are 766 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,520 this dangerous, you know, tribal animals. 767 00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:55,720 So I think you and I would be great as long as we educate 768 00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:59,720 people and and so on and we keep the culture going, but we could 769 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,560 descend into like tribal, you know, chaos. 770 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,280 You've read. You've read Lord of the Flies. 771 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,920 I was thinking about, I have not read that, but I remember in 772 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,600 high school they were giving that to everyone and it's about 773 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,120 some young kids that end up doing that kind of stuff. 774 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,520 I was about to bring it up. I haven't read it. 775 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:21,600 Basically what you're arguing or it is everybody must be left 776 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,720 alone and the government should butt out of everybody's lives. 777 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,320 What I'm arguing is what miss is arguing is for people to 778 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,160 understand freedom, you know, because if everybody right now 779 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,360 understood free market economics and then the government just 780 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,720 cuts down in size, then we will have our private cities. 781 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,200 You know, instead of having your court building be this massive 782 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,480 structure with this God like priest with with a with a robe, 783 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,080 we would have efficient legal systems. 784 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:48,040 So we would just have skyrocketing, you know, 785 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,000 prosperity. So I mean, that's again. 786 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,520 And if I say anything that makes sense, remember it's because I 787 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,800 got lucky and I stumbled upon the Austrians, you know, so I 788 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,400 think we just have like, you know, sky rocketing prosperity. 789 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,680 I. Think it was molten Friedman who 790 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,720 said that if the government took control of the Sahara Desert, 791 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,120 they'll be a shortage of sand in the next five years. 792 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great quote. 793 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:18,280 You see in in the private sector every living thing, every 794 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,120 orderly thing is in a never ending cycle of production and 795 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,880 consumption. You know an animal in the wild 796 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,160 like a lion, right? He has to produce, he has to 797 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,000 hunt a zebra. So he produces something then he 798 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,800 consumes it, right? And he has a profit, something 799 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,360 that that he can then consume while he keeps like living. 800 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,440 Every order in the private sector is always doing profit 801 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,680 and loss calculation. Every business has sells revenue 802 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,600 that is a sign of how much you have produced. 803 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,320 Then you have costs, which is a sign of how much you have 804 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,560 consumed. And then you have profit, which 805 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,200 is really a sign of by how much more you have grown the economic 806 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,280 pie. Right. 807 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,440 But the government is a massive social structure that doesn't do 808 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:01,040 profit or loss calculation. It just taxes, taxes, taxes and 809 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,000 and the bureaucracy also doesn't have to compete. 810 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,440 I mean, I, again, I think I mentioned it earlier. 811 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,840 I mean, competition is what turns the entire social order 812 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,640 into a supercomputer where every private sector business is 813 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,240 motivated to innovate, but competition forces it to copy 814 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,440 the innovations of competitors. So I don't know who came up with 815 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,680 power door locks on power windows. 816 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,480 He might have been a Honda engineer in Tokyo, but then 817 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,480 competition motivated BMW in Germany, Chevy, Ford in the US 818 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,160 to copy the power door locks idea. 819 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,840 So again, that's only in the private sector. 820 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,200 That is why as as freedom increased in Europe, thanks to 821 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,280 our evolving morals, we got, you know, capitalism and the 822 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,560 government is just a course of competition, mean monopoly that 823 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,720 doesn't have that it destroys civilization. 824 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,280 But this is, you know, the inside of the Austrian since 825 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,560 since this prosperity arose without people planning it, 826 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,400 we're fooled. We're like cells in a body that 827 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,600 suddenly said instead of doing what we've been doing for 4 828 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,960 billion years, let's use a reason and start trying to 829 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,080 tinkle with everything and we just destroy the, you know, the 830 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,840 social order. Criticisms you might get as 831 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,480 well. Look at an organisation like 832 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,960 Microsoft or Google or Facebook. These are supposedly private 833 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,000 companies, but they are so powerful, more powerful than 834 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,560 many governments, that they can actually control the outcomes of 835 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,360 social order. I mean, I mean that that's a 836 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,280 great point. And but again, like these things 837 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,000 would not be happen like if, if, if more people found like you 838 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,120 and we understood, you know, how the big corporations can start 839 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,320 influence the government, you know, to do all kinds of 840 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,960 nefarious things, you know, and if the government, the 841 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,800 government right now controls everything, you know, about 40% 842 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,800 of our wealth is sent to this massive bureaucracy. 843 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,400 If we had more people who understood these things, then we 844 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,000 wouldn't have these problems. So I mean, I, I understand, 845 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,440 especially now look at someone like Alex Karp and, and 846 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,760 Palantir, right? We're we're getting the 847 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,840 evolution of, you know, the, the NKVD, but pro Zionism, you know, 848 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,760 it, it will soon, we will soon. Just like in the COVID mania, we 849 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,040 have the, the perverse incentives that let Pfizer stock 850 00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,000 to get really high and the CEO of Pfizer telling us that if 851 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,880 you're not getting a vaccine, you know, you're like a 852 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,400 criminal. I mean, we're really seeing the 853 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,800 same thing. But with, with the ruling 854 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,040 mythology of our day, with the Zionism, you know, there's a lot 855 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,880 of money to be made now in branding people anti Semites, 856 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,040 you know, controlling the anti Semites. 857 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,880 And, and yeah, I mean, and, and Microsoft actually, while I was 858 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,120 working at Microsoft, I already saw the marriage between 859 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,560 Microsoft is getting all these big government contracts, right? 860 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:24,320 They're getting all these big government contracts. 861 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,040 So now more and more of their revenue comes from a juicy 862 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,440 government contract instead of competing out there. 863 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,200 So they can start going along with all the silly regulations 864 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,520 and start perversing their own incentives. 865 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,280 So yeah, I mean, but but the key is for us to understand all 866 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,680 these things and to I mean, it's not like I'm for it. 867 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,640 I'm I am totally for some regulations, but we just have to 868 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,960 have a a well educated public. Ultimately, what you're seeing 869 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,040 is not really true competition. You mentioned now you mentioned 870 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,480 Palantir, Google, Facebook, they are all in bed with various 871 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,200 governments. That's how they got up there. 872 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,880 Yeah, exactly. Especially Palantir and we know 873 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,160 big Pharma, I mean big pharma, where would Moderna be if it 874 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,280 wasn't for all the money they got for the COVID mania? 875 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,880 And, and in, in the US, this big pharmaceutical companies, they 876 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,560 all exist because of all the freebies that Medicare, you 877 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,800 know, since the elderly get free healthcare and all the freebies 878 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,280 just go to the, to the corporations that are pushing 879 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,360 all of the myths. That's what we need for the 880 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,080 masses to understand real competition that leads to the 881 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,960 real better ideas instead of having, you know, the government 882 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,880 create all this myths, you know. I, I, I think that's the lesson 883 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,280 that's coming through you is the importance of competition. 884 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,000 But it's also important to remind people that, again, the 885 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,760 competition in the economy is not a competition of like, I'm 886 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,760 going to get killed, you know, or something like that. 887 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,960 All it is, is just a mechanism for creating and spreading the 888 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,320 best ideas to society, that that's all it does. 889 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,120 It just, again, one entrepreneur comes up with something, the 890 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,400 competitors have to copy it. That leads to society producing 891 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,920 wealth at a faster rate, so you have more wealth. 892 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,280 And then competition between labourers forces them to pay us 893 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,280 more for for our wages. So again, competition. 894 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:07,840 People just really need to make the connection. 895 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,080 And Friedrich Hayek, he wrote 2 classic papers. 896 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,560 One is called The Use of Knowledge in Society in which I 897 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,280 highly recommend. And he wrote another one for 898 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,560 example, called competition as a Discovery procedure. 899 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,680 He's telling you everything right there. 900 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,880 You know, that competition is just the mechanism that spreads 901 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,200 knowledge and technology and prosperity to the society and 902 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,400 how government being a competition immune course of 903 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,440 bureaucracy that doesn't have to learn, it just destroys things. 904 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,280 So if we can get more people to want, that's one of the things I 905 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,320 really like about Hayek. He had this this focus on 906 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,760 information, which I think makes it easy to understand. 907 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,280 You know how knowledge moves, you know, through society. 908 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,120 Do you think, therefore, that a government should not have a 909 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,720 monopoly of violence? Yeah, now we're getting into 910 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:54,360 like this whole capitalist stuff. 911 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,600 And yeah, I think we we should. If the government does have a 912 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,880 monopoly on violence, that means that somebody else will a little 913 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,120 private city or something like that. 914 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,720 And now we will have competition in legal systems. 915 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,880 So, yeah, I mean private cities, you know, again, those are 916 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,000 anarcho capitalism. And so I just want to throw Mary 917 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120 Rothbard's name in there, who was one of the great Austrians 918 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,000 who wrote a lot about that. And David Friedman to the son of 919 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,160 Milton Friedman, he wrote a classic book called The 920 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,280 Machinery of Freedom that I highly recommend that also looks 921 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,080 at anarcho capitalism. But many people have different 922 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,920 ways of coming to to anarcho capitalism or even the economy 923 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,360 in general. There's the moral path that says 924 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,760 that it is that people have a like a God given right to 925 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,800 private property, and that's one way to treat the legal system. 926 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,960 And then there's the utilitarian path that says, well, maybe I 927 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,680 don't take my morality from some God, but I just think that this 928 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,200 works better, right? So Milton, David Friedman's 929 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,200 Machinery of Freedom is a utilitarian look at anarchical 930 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,320 capitalism. Well, Mary Rothbard is more 931 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,760 like, like a moral thing, Like we have a right, you know, to be 932 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,440 able to create like our own state or something like that. 933 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,120 Let me give you an example. Here in South Africa, our 934 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,840 private security force outnumbers our police force by 935 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:12,040 4:00 to 1:00, which means that people believe or trust in the 936 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:16,760 in private, in private police way more than they trust in the 937 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,840 state police. Yeah, that that's a great 938 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,680 example. And I think in the US is 939 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:23,480 similar. I'm sure there's a lot more 940 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,200 private police. And I'm also reminded in places 941 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,280 like Disney World in Florida, you know, they have their own 942 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,480 private police there. And Disney World is like, it's 943 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,600 like a mini city, right? So those are great examples to 944 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,640 to tell people, I mean, look at a small country like Granada, 945 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,440 right? If a small country like Granada, 946 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,000 which has like a population of 140,000 people or whatever, if 947 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,320 we allowed Microsoft or Elon Musk, you know, to buy a similar 948 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,640 sized chunk of land, couldn't Elon with all his geniuses and 949 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,520 all his great computer programmer buddies, couldn't 950 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,520 they manage a better way to to like run security? 951 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,280 Of course. I mean, we just got to let 952 00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,880 people try it. So yeah, those are great 953 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,520 examples to get people to open up their minds. 954 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,560 You are aware, though, that many in my audience hate Elon Musk 955 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,960 because he's a technocrat. Yeah, the truth is like, it's 956 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,760 very hard for us to know behind the scenes what exactly is in 957 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,240 Elon's mind. Elon Musk know way more than 958 00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:21,840 than he lets you know. You know, look, and I am 959 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,040 reminded when when, when Javier Miley was deep into his election 960 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,760 and he was about to win. Elon Musk has a huge bromance 961 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,080 with Javier Miley regarding economics. 962 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,720 He brought him over, he took him to the Tesla factory and so on. 963 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,920 And while the whole election with Miley was going on, Elon 964 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,880 Musk shared 2 memes. He shared a meme with a picture 965 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:43,360 of Hayek, the road to serve them. 966 00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:45,920 And he said that Hayek was his favourite economist. 967 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,880 And then he shared another meme because you know, Hayek has 968 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,240 that's the same name as Salma Hayek the, the, the hot actress. 969 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,040 So he had, he shared a meme with Salma Hayek with a wonderful 970 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,520 Hayek quote. And the quote said that the most 971 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,480 important thing we could do, you know, to ensure prosperity is to 972 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,320 educate people about economics, you know, which is again, is 973 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,320 everything I'm about what the Austrians were about. 974 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,120 So the fact that Elon Musk, the world's most wealthy man, finds 975 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,440 Hayek to be a favourite economist. 976 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,120 He's good friends with Miley. And that's where he got the 977 00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,400 whole idea to do the Doge thing, you know, to, to go in there and 978 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,040 try to cut spending. But there is a big difference 979 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,400 between between Elon Musk and Doge. 980 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,360 Elon Musk, but by doge, he tried to cut the head of the snake. 981 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,360 He tried to cut the spending and all the bureaucracy, but that 982 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,960 head grows out of the economic ignorance of the masses and the 983 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,160 clueless politicians. But Miele with way less of a 984 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,120 budget, way less of of a name recognition, he's launching a 985 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,160 real intellectual revolution in Argentina because Miele is out 986 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,520 there striking the the economic ignorance of the masses. 987 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,840 You know, Miele is educating the youth he had a wonderful 988 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,720 interview with. I mean, obviously he's awful. 989 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,840 Ben Shapiro where Milei was saying how he won the election 990 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,320 in Argentina and Milei laid it out. 991 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,520 He said we, we, we used to have like rock concerts, but we used 992 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:12,560 to give out economics books. So Milei is doing what nieces 993 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,960 told us to do, to go out there and educate people. 994 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,440 So those are important differences to realise, you 995 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,880 know, you, you can't create an intellectual wave that that can 996 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,680 hopefully, you know, turn things around. 997 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,200 I know that many in my audience despise a number of the 998 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,240 individuals that you've spoken about. 999 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:33,440 I don't hold the same views because I think that each of 1000 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,000 them has something of value to offer and each of them also has 1001 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:44,120 something to discard. And I think we can learn from 1002 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,880 all of these and create our own perspective, our own world view. 1003 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,240 Yeah, again. And again, to me, everything, 1004 00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,120 Ty, I, I've read so much of these Austrians, you know, I can 1005 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,720 find some quote or something, but I mean, we have to be 1006 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:58,800 sympathetic towards people who make mistakes. 1007 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,880 I mean, I, I actually think that Malay's Zionism, it actually 1008 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,360 works to our advantage. I mean, I see Zionism as a 1009 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,080 massive intellectual error, right? 1010 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,200 But the fact that Malay is already a very hardcore pro 1011 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,080 freedom person that is waiting, you know, to tolerate we, we 1012 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,800 definitely need Malay to tolerate freedom of speech, 1013 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,400 especially when it comes to like Zionism and related stuff. 1014 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,760 And also the fact that Miley is loved by the Israeli 1015 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,400 politicians. I don't know if you noticed, but 1016 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,120 last month, and it was a little over a month ago, it was 1017 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,640 actually during the same weekend that they that the Israelis 1018 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,480 attacked Iran. Miley was in Israel and he gave 1019 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,600 a speech in the Knesset. And that speech, Benjamin 1020 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,360 Netanyahu spent 20 minutes talking about how great Miley 1021 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,040 was. Another famous Israeli 1022 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,840 politician started also spoke for like 10 minutes talking 1023 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,560 about how great Miley was. So in many ways you have all of 1024 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,200 this Israeli politicians treating Malay like he's the new 1025 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,320 Moses right now. I understand a lot of that comes 1026 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,200 because Malays is just way over the head over Zionism. 1027 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,400 He thinks that the Zionists, you know, are, are the beacon of 1028 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,200 Western civilization. But a lot of these Israeli 1029 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,120 politicians, they're very pro free market. 1030 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,480 As a matter of fact, in Israel, they have like, like, like a 1031 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,560 libertarian party within, within the Likud and they're hardcore 1032 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,920 pro freedom people. So again, I, I just see Zionism 1033 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:14,640 as a mistake. And the fact that Mila is a 1034 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,320 Zionist, it just means that he's wrong. 1035 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,120 But maybe he can become a Zionist Gorbachev, right? 1036 00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:23,360 We have to realise that the Soviet Union, a lot of people 1037 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,120 say, oh, the Soviet Union was just a bunch of evil bad guys. 1038 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,560 But if there were just a bunch of evil bad guys, assuming that 1039 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,000 the Zionists are a bunch of evil bad guys, we would have never 1040 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,840 had a Gorbachev or or a Yeltsin. And I have to have faith that if 1041 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,760 we try and and the chaos continuously shows it, we will 1042 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,480 get a Zionist Gorbachev. So again, we have to be 1043 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:43,800 sympathetic just because people make this. 1044 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,760 I was once a commie, right? Ludwig von Mises himself was 1045 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:49,520 once a socialist, So what's Friedrich Hayek? 1046 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,520 So just because these people make mistakes, we can't really 1047 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:53,880 like hate them. We have to go out there and 1048 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,920 understand how they have fooled themselves into making these 1049 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,200 errors, which is again, it's a very misessing type of thing, 1050 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,680 so. To add to what you're saying, 1051 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,880 the reason why China is about to become the world's most powerful 1052 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:08,840 economy is because it has it has opened up, it's it's trading, 1053 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,520 it's way more free than what it was 50 years ago, the same as 1054 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,280 Qatar and the UAEI mean, these are highly capitalist societies. 1055 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,640 Yeah, You know, they learned and really the only thing that's 1056 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,520 really holding us back, it's it's we have to, it's such a 1057 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,600 shame, right, that the United States, you know, we're the home 1058 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,400 of Mary Rothbard, the adopted home of Meses. 1059 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,280 We're the guys that really have the capitalism and it, it is sad 1060 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,760 that now the Chinese are in many ways, you know, maybe they have 1061 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,520 already reached a point where where they're even more 1062 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,760 capitalist than we are. I mean, I, I wouldn't be 1063 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,520 surprised, you know, I mean, we really have to somehow overcome 1064 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,680 Zionism. I mean, it's another like big 1065 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,480 kind of warrants, but it really is like we can't have prosperity 1066 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,600 if we're blowing $1.5 trillion every year on military spending. 1067 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,480 It's crushing us. Just as we come in for the final 1068 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,800 lap, if if somebody goes to your sub stack, I think one of the 1069 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,760 first articles they'll see is why we should all be Holocaust 1070 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:08,560 deniers. Quickly explain that to me. 1071 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,400 Whoa, OK, I'm going to get killed now. 1072 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,160 Well, I mean #1 let me say something about like, you know, 1073 00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:24,120 the freedom of speech, right? I mean, for me to to realise 1074 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,320 that there are human beings that are put in prison for the 1075 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,440 content of their minds. You know, for example, like 1076 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,320 regarding the Holocaust, OK, a lot of people are not aware like 1077 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,040 right now we have the 40 be headed babies myth with Hamas, 1078 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,600 right? That was a total myth, right? 1079 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,200 There was some, some of the guys who were tasked with getting the 1080 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:41,960 bodies, you know, some guy exaggerated. 1081 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,560 And they have their little charities where, you know, they 1082 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,760 need to make money by showing how, you know how all these 1083 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,400 things are are happening. So that ended up being a massive 1084 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,920 myth. And soon afterwards, the Israeli 1085 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,280 Knesset, they were already talking about passing a law to 1086 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,280 ban what they called October 7th denial, right. 1087 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,760 So right now we just saw in real time how out of the complexities 1088 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:07,120 of history of war, you know, war myths and propaganda are things 1089 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,480 that happen all the time. During the First World War, we 1090 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,040 had the the Germans chopping off the hands of Belgium babies, 1091 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,560 crucifying Canadian soldiers. Those are all myths that arise, 1092 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,000 you know, during wars. So during the Second World War, 1093 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,120 I mean, a lot of people don't know, for example, like during 1094 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,160 the number, the Nuremberg trials, right? 1095 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:27,160 The Nuremberg trials, the Soviet delegation in the Nuremberg 1096 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,360 trials, OK, was led by Audrey Vishinsky. 1097 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,080 He was Stalin's judge who implemented the Shoal trials. 1098 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,760 So the same judge that implemented the the Shoal trials 1099 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,680 in Stalin's Russia from 1936 to 1938, where they signed the 1100 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,200 orders that killed like 700,000 people, executed all of Lenin's 1101 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,400 friends. The same guy was the top judge 1102 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,360 of the Soviet delegation during the number of trials, anybody in 1103 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,360 the number of trials. They blamed the Germans for the 1104 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,920 Captain Forest massacre where they killed like like 20,000 1105 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,280 Poles. That was done by the Russians, 1106 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:02,920 right? And the Russians put evidence 1107 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,960 saying that he was the Germans, right? 1108 00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:08,440 And Churchill knew at the time in the Nuremberg trials, in the 1109 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,440 official documents, you can find fabricated things where they 1110 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,800 killed, you know, they killed people by electrocution, 1111 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,200 chamber, brain bashing, pedal driven machine, having people 1112 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,240 climb trees and then cutting the tree, all kinds of absurdities 1113 00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:25,440 that today we know they were like fabricated, right? 1114 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:30,680 So knowing all things, how can we put in gaol someone that 1115 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,880 looks at all that stuff and then doubts the official narrative? 1116 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,560 OK, Never mind whether the official narrative happened 1117 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,640 exactly as they say they did or not, how can we be putting 1118 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:42,960 people in gaol, you know, for questioning something, for 1119 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,600 engaging in the competition of ideas, right? 1120 00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,520 Something else that's very related to this. 1121 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,760 For example, look at the numbers prior to the collapse of the 1122 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,600 Soviet Union, right? The official estimate of the 1123 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,920 people that got killed in Auschwitz was like 4 million. 1124 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,600 And, you know, a lot of people have seen the picture of the 1125 00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,560 plaque that shows the 4 million people dying. 1126 00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:02,800 So anyone doing their moral duty, because we all should have 1127 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,960 a moral duty to understand and speak the truth as we really see 1128 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:07,760 it and engage in the competition of ideas. 1129 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,480 Especially for me, I've been in the free market world for like 1130 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,320 20 years. So we have a moral duty to speak 1131 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,640 the truth. So someone in 1985 saying that 1132 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,200 there's no way the Soviets could have killed 4 million people in 1133 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,080 Auschwitz. It had to be a way smaller 1134 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,280 number. You know, that person would have 1135 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,000 been deemed a criminal and killed, right? 1136 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,720 And they would have been right after the collapse of the Soviet 1137 00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:30,880 Union when the official authorities revised the number 1138 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,400 to like 1,000,000. So that is just, again, it's 1139 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,520 wrong. And also, when you look at like 1140 00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,720 the world of revisionism and the people who feel like, for 1141 00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,400 example, Germar Rudolph, who you just had, you know, on your show 1142 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,880 in one of his books that I highly recommend, he wrote a 1143 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,400 book called Nazi Gas Chambers, The Roots of the Story, where 1144 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,960 Germar explains how the mainstream Holocaust narrative, 1145 00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,000 which he considers to be a complex myth or an exaggeration, 1146 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,440 how it how it evolved. You have people spreading 1147 00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,080 rumours. You have the the little gas 1148 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,000 chambers that were made to disinfect clothing. 1149 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,280 So you had all the ingredients to create what eventually became 1150 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:05,800 a myth. He talks about the Nuremberg 1151 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,960 trials and all those things. But one of the very important 1152 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,560 things that grammar does, he specifically goes out of his way 1153 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,920 to let people know that the mainstream narrative was not 1154 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,720 some grand deliberate lie created by Jews, right? 1155 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,280 Just because Jews then understandably picked up on the 1156 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:26,280 story and and they made it like part of their religion, it 1157 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,880 doesn't mean that the whole Holocaust narrative was plotted, 1158 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,920 you know, by the Jews. So and so the point I want to 1159 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,720 make is that so again, any anybody doubting, like I read 1160 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,920 Germar's, a lot of Germar's books and I have read, you know, 1161 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,360 the great Dave Cole that you also had his great documentary 1162 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,280 in Auschwitz. And I've looked into all of 1163 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,640 these things. Now, let us assume that that 1164 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,080 Germar made mistakes or that David Cole made mistakes because 1165 00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,400 of the complexity of history and everything that happened there. 1166 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,840 If they made mistakes, and now I read their works and I am 1167 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,520 persuaded by them, why should I too, be a criminal, right? 1168 00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,360 And what, what if it's what? Let's take a step further. 1169 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,400 What if the people who questioned the mainstream 1170 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,880 Holocaust narrative are actually a bunch of Jew haters and they 1171 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,200 want to make some money by selling books? 1172 00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:14,880 OK. Which is an understandable fear 1173 00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,160 because the truth is that there are some Jew haters out there, 1174 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,240 right? So, but even if we assume that, 1175 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,840 even if we assume that they're just lying, you know, so they 1176 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,400 can sell some books. And then I read their books and 1177 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,600 I'm once again persuaded, you know, should I be made a 1178 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,560 criminal? Or what if they read something 1179 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,160 by somebody who made mistakes or fabricated stuff and then they 1180 00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,440 are fooled into getting a different opinion that they can 1181 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,240 put you in gaol. It's absurd. 1182 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,960 It's absurd to, to someone like myself who has such a, an 1183 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,280 understanding of freedom and so on. 1184 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,000 So the way I see it, not only do I believe that the mainstream 1185 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,400 Holocaust narrative is an exaggeration that grew out of 1186 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,600 Stalinist, I mean, Stalin had a reason to, to, to punish the 1187 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,440 Germans, to go along with the rumours, right? 1188 00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,360 You can't blame them. You know, Poland, the Polish 1189 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,000 communists, they got invaded by the Nazis. 1190 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,560 So it makes perfect sense that they might exaggerate the story. 1191 00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,560 But to me, so I, I definitely believe they're Girmar's side of 1192 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,960 things, that the Holocaust was not some grand invented thing, 1193 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,040 you know, by the Jews, you know, which a lot of Holocaust deniers 1194 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,480 think. And I also don't think it was 1195 00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:24,760 the result of some malice, you know, Germans, you know, so, but 1196 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,040 so I, I do believe what Germar is saying. 1197 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,080 But even if I didn't, this just denied the thing anyway. 1198 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,760 And so we have freedom and real competition. 1199 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,760 How could we possibly know what happened? 1200 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,840 Yeah. So in other words, In other 1201 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,120 words, even if you don't believe the entire story, So what? 1202 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,680 Exactly. Deny it anyway. 1203 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,280 Deny it anyway until we do not have freedom and real 1204 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,640 competition of ideas, then just deny it anyway. 1205 00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,200 Because if 10,000 of us show up at the Bundestag, you know, and 1206 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,960 that reminds, I recently had a talk with grammar. 1207 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,160 There's a gentleman, his name is Friedrich Tobin. 1208 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,600 And he's one of these people who spent like 10 months in gaol. 1209 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,960 And this man is, is a real hero that hardly anyone knows about. 1210 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,080 Friedrich Tobin went to Germany and he denied it on purpose so 1211 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,880 he could go to gaol and, and, and make himself a martyr and 1212 00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,320 make a point that this is just bullshit. 1213 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,120 OK, so there's, it's incredible when 1 looks at the history of 1214 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,040 Holocaust revisionism. Those are the real heroes, you 1215 00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:19,000 know, I mean not. Just that. 1216 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,920 Not just that, but similarly, if you wanted to say, well, the 1217 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,680 Bolshevik revolution didn't happen, OK, cool, So what? 1218 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:27,480 Exactly. And, and there was a lot of, 1219 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,000 there's a lot of hardcore communist who, who have a 1220 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,520 different take on the Bolshevik revolution. 1221 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,600 This or what Lenin wanted to do was great. 1222 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,560 It was the saboteurs and the, and the evil greedy capitalists 1223 00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,160 that are distorting our view of history. 1224 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:40,880 I don't want to put those people in gaol, right? 1225 00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,040 So that is part. So that is really the theme of, 1226 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,000 of my thing. You know, it's like, no, but, 1227 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,600 but it's important. I, I, I question the Holocaust 1228 00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,480 for real, you know, but even if I didn't, you know, we should 1229 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,280 have enough people that say, wait a minute, this is wrong. 1230 00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,040 You know, let's go out there and deny it anyway, right? 1231 00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,800 Because you can. Only what really matters is not 1232 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,000 the truth itself. It's the fact that you have the 1233 01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,400 freedom and the emerging competition of ideas that will 1234 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:04,760 then get you closer to the truth. 1235 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:06,960 I don't care exactly whether germ theory happens the way it 1236 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,280 is or the virus or whatever, but I have a good enough 1237 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,240 understanding of economics to really fight for what matters is 1238 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,960 the freedom and the emerging competition of ideas. 1239 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:18,520 So all of these this this so called scholars at Vagischem, 1240 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,760 those guys are as much scholars as were the economists in the 1241 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,560 Soviet Union. Right. 1242 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,160 Of course the Soviet Union had its think tanks of economists 1243 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,920 and all that, but their entire ideological structure evolved 1244 01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:34,680 thanks to coercion and a mistake. 1245 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,960 So again, any Holocaust scholar, anybody wanting to to make the 1246 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,080 case for the mainstream narrative or wanting to bad 1247 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,920 mouth the revisionist, first let's have real freedom of 1248 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,160 speech. And then who knows, maybe it 1249 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,800 really happened exactly as they say, right? 1250 01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,400 But fine, then I will read, you know something better and I'll 1251 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,280 take it more seriously and maybe I'll change my mind. 1252 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,720 But until then, I deny the Holocaust. 1253 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:04,560 This entire conversation Jorge is is reject the Frankfurt 1254 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,800 School of Economics. And the Frankfurt on the 1255 01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,600 Marxist, anyone who's not an Austrian and anybody who I mean 1256 01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:12,240 to me, I mean Chicago. School. 1257 01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,440 I think Bolton Friedman was part of the Chicago School. 1258 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,600 That's a big subject. You know, He, it unfortunately, 1259 01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,680 human beings are human beings. And there's always a little bit 1260 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,560 of competition and negligence, you know, of, of other 1261 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,680 intellectuals. The world of economics has that 1262 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,680 as well. Like Friedrich Hayek also taught 1263 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,600 at the Chicago School at the same university, but they didn't 1264 01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:36,560 give him a job inside the economics department. 1265 01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,320 They gave him a job in like the school of philosophy or 1266 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,120 something. And a lot of people feel like 1267 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,120 maybe that's because there was just a little bit of like the 1268 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:47,760 egos, you know, or whatever. And there are major differences 1269 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,760 between the Chicago school and Milton Friedman and the 1270 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,840 Austrians. And as a matter of fact, Ludwig 1271 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,600 von Mises, who who never took shit from anyone, Ludwig von 1272 01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,120 Mises said that Milton Friedman is just a statistician, you 1273 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,200 know, because the Austrians, the Austrians look at mathematics as 1274 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,320 just like all these mathematical models. 1275 01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,800 It's like a biologist. A biologist doesn't look at at a 1276 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,880 human body with mathematical formulas. 1277 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,520 You look at it in an evolved way. 1278 01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:14,600 You want to see the evolution of things. 1279 01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,840 So the Austrians look at the social order as an evolved 1280 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:18,080 thing. So we hardly pay any attention 1281 01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,200 to math. But the Chicago guys and the 1282 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:21,680 Kings, they're more into the mathematical so. 1283 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,400 And it was a massive suck. I don't want to get in trouble. 1284 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,480 I'm already in trouble as it is. But no, but Milton Friedman, I 1285 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,960 love Milton Friedman, you know, wonderful guy, great educator. 1286 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:31,880 He has such a soft spoken demeanour. 1287 01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,800 He he did so much to educate so many. 1288 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,440 But well, if. Friedman was he. 1289 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,480 He was my gateway to Hayek and and Mises, actually. 1290 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,680 Yeah, to me, early on I read Capitalism and Freedom or 1291 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,240 something like that, you know, from him. 1292 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,160 He too was one of my great early influences. 1293 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,280 And look, he did a great job with his son too, so. 1294 01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:56,680 OK, Jorge, how can I follow you? Yeah, so I have a website, 1295 01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,000 besada.com, where one can download for free or even listen 1296 01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,840 to some of the books I've written in the past. 1297 01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,240 Also, please follow me on Twitter. 1298 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,320 My handle is Hayekian. Very easy to remember. 1299 01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,000 And if you just like also at at the Ludwig von Mises Institute, 1300 01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,520 I've published about 12 articles that, you know, I highly 1301 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,320 recommend some of the articles get republished at 1302 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,680 lourockwell.com. I've had a few things published 1303 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,200 at ons.com. And so, yeah, beside that 1304 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,280 comment, please follow me at at Hayekian. 1305 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,000 Jorge Basada, thank you for joining me in the trenches. 1306 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:29,520 Yeah. Thank you.