1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:06,840 I wanted to just come back onto the opening news item, right? 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,000 And somebody in the chat box had said, or at some point it made 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,320 the point that Tommy Robinson, if it wasn't for Tommy Robinson, 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,360 we wouldn't know anything about the grooming gangs. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,800 Now, this has got to be controversial thing to say, but 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,880 I just would invite people to consider what's being said here. 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,240 Because the fact of the matter is that grooming gangs, as 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,440 reprehensible as they are and as needing prosecution as they 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:45,600 have, as they are, that entire thing was, in my opinion, and 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,560 aside from the criminality of it, an operation by the deep 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:57,120 state designed to incite strong feelings in the community on 12 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,560 whichever side of the argument you have in the sit, whether 13 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:07,360 you're Asian or white British. Because the point that we've 14 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,800 been trying to make for since the beginning of that issue was 15 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,440 that the grooming gangs could not have operated without the 16 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,640 full complicity of the state. They were permitted to do what 17 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,360 they did. And we need to be asking why 18 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,560 were they permitted to be, to do what they did. 19 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,880 Now, the excuse which is given is that people didn't step in 20 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,920 because of concerns that they would be accused of being racist 21 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,400 in some way. Sorry, that does not wash. 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,160 Criminality is criminality no matter who does it. 23 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:47,280 And so that's an excuse. The other thing that I want to 24 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,600 make, the other point that I want to reiterate once again, is 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,240 that contrary to much of the rhetoric which is right there, 26 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:00,000 there is zero evidence to support the claim that there is 27 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,240 a greater preponderance of sexual abuse of children in one 28 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,759 community over another. And in fact, we have been 29 00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:14,360 working with the abused in this country for 20 years. 30 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:22,240 And we can absolutely say with certainty that the vast majority 31 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,720 of the people that we have been working with have been abused by 32 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,560 people who are not Asian. And certainly, well, let's just 33 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,840 leave it, leave it at that point there. 34 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:40,640 So the question is, if Tommy Robinson has gotten the lid off 35 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,240 grooming gangs, he did so with the support of the mainstream 36 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,880 press in a sense, because suddenly that issue became an 37 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,480 issue which hit the mainstream and therefore into a much 38 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,640 broader public awareness than it had been. 39 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,280 And then again, we should be asking the question, why did the 40 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,760 mainstream media get onto that story and why now? 41 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,440 The other thing that I would make the point, the other point 42 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,800 that I would make here is that if you've been watching the UK 43 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:17,480 column since I think around 20/16/2017, we have been 44 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:22,760 highlighting the fact that we started to see rhetoric from 45 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:29,640 the, the, the police agencies that the, and the intelligence 46 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:34,040 agencies suddenly talking about the rise of a far right in this 47 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,360 country. And at that time, we said that 48 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,320 there was no such thing as a far right in this country and that 49 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,560 if there was a rise of the far right going to take place, it 50 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,280 was going to happen because of the efforts of the British deep 51 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,760 state. And I believe that's exactly 52 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:58,680 what has happened in the sense that people of all classes are 53 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,400 being radicalized to a certain degree. 54 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:07,760 I say this is probably quite difficult for some people to 55 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,680 hear somebody saying, but I think we've got to consider the 56 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,720 possibility that that's what's been going on. 57 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,279 And I think that's really what you were attempting to start the 58 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,760 conversation about with your report at the beginning of the 59 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,840 program, Charles. So I mean, what are your 60 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:26,200 thoughts and what I've just said? 61 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,840 Yeah. Well, I would absolutely agree 62 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,600 with that. I would also cite very early on 63 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:38,840 Raja Meer because UK column now has I think 2 interviews with 64 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,280 Raja Ben. Ben Rubin's done 2 interviews 65 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:44,600 with Raja Meer and indeed he spoke at our on location event 66 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:50,240 in Cheltenham back in April. And absolute case in point, I 67 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,600 mean he, he, he, I would say would be the go to person on the 68 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,040 the wider issue and the enabling of the grooming gangs. 69 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,000 So I think that's absolutely right. 70 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:10,640 I think the danger with, and I'm not, I don't actually mean to 71 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,680 necessarily single out Tommy Robinson because he has become 72 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,520 an icon in certain quarters and because he does receive much 73 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,040 more publicity than anybody who's in effect sending the same 74 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:29,640 message. It is, it is very easy to see 75 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:38,200 that every single, every single but, but the, the narrative that 76 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:43,200 he puts out, the things that he investigates or expose, expose 77 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,880 or, or whatever terms these things are put in, always have 78 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,880 the same conclusion, which is that the villain of the piece is 79 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,840 a Muslim. And that that is, that is 80 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:02,240 problematic when it's, when it overlaps with, let's say what's 81 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,600 going on now, which is this campaign to do something that 82 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,040 should be totally innocent. It's the, the operation raise 83 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,440 the colours. So to put, to put flags 84 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,080 everywhere. I mean, you know, you go to any 85 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,360 European country and people absolutely are flying the 86 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,480 national flag off their house. It's, it's completely normal. 87 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,000 It should be totally normal, but it's not. 88 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,080 It's, it is absolutely being turned into a divisive issue and 89 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,360 it's, it just crosses that line from being proud to be British 90 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,680 to proud to be British at the exclusion of whatever else it 91 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,680 is. And it's just that the most 92 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,880 obvious one at the moment, as as evidenced by that. 93 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,880 OK, admittedly only one video, but absolutely there are lots 94 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:47,040 more out there of people tearing down Palestinian flags in order 95 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,720 to replace them with Saint George's crosses or Union flags. 96 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,480 And and I think my contention would be that Tommy Robinson's 97 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:04,120 work and the various causes that he promotes and the engagements 98 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,680 that he has in a sort of media context are aggravating or 99 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,240 creating tensions where none really should exist. 100 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,680 And I think that's the problem and I think people for for the 101 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,280 absolutely vast majority of people who are perhaps 102 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,520 considering that what's happening with flags and the 103 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,440 sort of, you know, people are, you know, feeling some sense 104 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,240 sense of national pride and all the rest of it, absolutely fine. 105 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,840 But I think that there will be a huge lack of awareness amongst 106 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:39,000 those sorts of people about the way in which they are in effect 107 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,600 being manipulated, I think, and how how that campaign can very 108 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,840 easily be weaponized. And how again, the other video 109 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,480 that showed those chaps who were as well as painting St. 110 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,720 George's crosses on the side of the house, then shouting at 111 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,840 people that they considered to be Muslim. 112 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,880 I mean that, you know, seriously, who does that 113 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,640 benefit? But it but it, I think it is 114 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,320 easy to plot a line backwards from that to somebody like Tommy 115 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:15,200 Robinson, simply because none of the material that he covers has 116 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:21,200 anybody else as the wrongdoer. And therefore it's very, very 117 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:22,720 obvious. And this is the way that that 118 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,600 sort of media works in terms of messaging. 119 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:30,600 It is very obvious that not only is every single 'cause that he 120 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,840 brings out one that does down Islam as a faith and 121 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,679 specifically people who are described as Muslims in the UK, 122 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,760 but, but on the obverse, and this is exactly what David 123 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,560 Miller was talking about, this, this is to the advantage of the 124 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,560 Israel lobby and and the Zionist agenda. 125 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:50,440 And that is really, really dangerous. 126 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,800 Funding and and that's why that's why that's the 127 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,000 destination of everything that he does is because that is that 128 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,560 is who is promoting exactly. No, but the question in the chat 129 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,840 box then was why was Tommy Robinson imprisoned and 130 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,480 demonized? Look, we've got to get our heads 131 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,320 around how these gang counter gang operations work. 132 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,840 If that man is standing up, funded by Zionism, pushing out a 133 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,480 particular type of message, and then the state puts him in 134 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:23,040 prison for some of something that he has done, what's the 135 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,160 reaction in among his supporters? 136 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,800 But even in among the the broader population? 137 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,920 Why is the state putting people in prison who were who, who have 138 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,800 been making comments on social media about on, on so-called 139 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,680 right wing issues on immigration or whatever? 140 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,800 Why are they putting those people in prison? 141 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:48,200 Why they don't put people in prison for other on on other 142 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:55,080 left wing topics? Why did they have this two tier 143 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:59,240 care policing 2 tier everything at the moment. 144 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:05,640 It's designed to wind people up. I would really urge everybody to 145 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,240 read Frank Kitson's book Gangs and Counter Gangs. 146 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:16,880 He was in charge of the British military operation in Kenya, in 147 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,680 Malaya, in Northern Ireland at the at the very beginning and so 148 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:23,120 on. He wrote several books on this 149 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,560 type of thing. We need to sort of try to get to 150 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,400 get to grips with the types of psychological operations which 151 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,320 are run by the state. And you know, this comes back 152 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,240 once again, we'll say it once again comes back to the change 153 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,480 in military doctrine in this country and in other countries. 154 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,680 But in this country in recent years where, where this type of 155 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,920 activity was something that we exported to other places to some 156 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,600 to a greater or lesser extent. It is a game that we have played 157 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,080 domestically as well. But it is absolutely all the 158 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,440 stops are off now. And the British government is 159 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,160 absolutely using these tactics on its own population for 100 160 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,120 different reasons. And, and if we don't understand 161 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,840 the tactics, then we don't understand what's going on 162 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,400 around us and we're going to fall into traps. 163 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,680 Well, this is it. I mean, I, you know that, which 164 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,760 is why I sort of wound up by by saying it's, it's digital ID. 165 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,120 You know, you create, you create enough of this madness and 166 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,320 people will kind of accept anything. 167 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,880 Sandy, we've banged on and what what do you think about about? 168 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,120 This no, it means it's too fascinating. 169 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,720 I don't think it's banging on at all. 170 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,640 It's, it's interesting because we, there's, I just feel with 171 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,080 this tinderbox point that, you know, it is really a tinderbox 172 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,120 at the moment. And, and it's very difficult 173 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:52,440 because yes, everyone is being played by the establishment and, 174 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:57,200 and beyond. And I think, you know, it's 175 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,000 about I, I would like to ask you to, what would your message be 176 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,760 to people who are going to turn out on the 13th of September in 177 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,600 London? What would your message be to 178 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,280 them? Well, my message, but, well, 179 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,960 where do we start with that? I mean, that's a big question, 180 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,400 sadly, frankly. Sorry, sorry, it's just. 181 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,600 That you know. You're saying, you know, I'm 182 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,960 playing devil's advocate here because there are people who are 183 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:28,440 genuinely concerned about the, the you know, about what's 184 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,680 happening to their country, the destruction in every single way 185 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,400 of their country. And and then they're being fed 186 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,160 all this stuff. All the, you know, these 187 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,080 migrants are staying in four-star hotels. 188 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,560 Look at what they're eating. They're eating better than you 189 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,400 at home. You're struggling to feed your 190 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,840 children, but look at them. It's all you know. 191 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,600 It is a big. Big and right there with that 192 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,280 comment, you, you have absolutely hit the nail on the 193 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,520 head that that is that is what's being done to us all. 194 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,200 So what? And people are going to turn 195 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,240 out, I mean, I met 2 very, very normal, kind of ordinary women 196 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,640 the other day who stopped me and they, they recognised me in the 197 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,600 street and they said you're Sandy, aren't you like, oh, are 198 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,280 you going on the 13th of September? 199 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,160 And I said no, not me. And, and it was really 200 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,760 interesting. They said, oh, we're going. 201 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,960 And they seemed so normal. And I said, well, you know, I, 202 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,560 what do you say to them? Because are they being drawn 203 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,240 into some sort of the thing where they could be used and, 204 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,160 and end up being arrested or I don't know. 205 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,720 I mean they or their, their argument to me was, well, we 206 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,560 went on the last time in Robinson March and it was well 207 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,160 organised and he was saying you've got to keep calm. 208 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,280 You mustn't, you know, and what do you say to that? 209 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,880 Because we all know what he's about and we know what Farage is 210 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,360 about. We know that everybody's being 211 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,360 manipulated. So what do you say to them when 212 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,880 they say we're going on that March? 213 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,760 Yeah, but you say we know. Who knows? 214 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,480 I might know. I might know the people in the 215 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,720 chat box. Might I did tell them I, I spoke 216 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,680 to them and I said, look, you know, this is, it's, it's really 217 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:06,120 difficult because people do want to fight for their for their 218 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,480 country. They do want to be able to, to 219 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,640 fly their flag. But is it at the, at the expense 220 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,960 of pulling down a Palestinian flag when you know what's going 221 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,360 on there is horrendous? And it's the same hidden hand 222 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,600 that's organising everything in that respect. 223 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,720 And so I, I just feel that there's so much that people 224 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,400 don't understand and it's, it's almost impossible. 225 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:34,360 I mean, we do our best here to explain it, but I think a lot of 226 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,400 people are, it's almost like a very emotive thing. 227 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,480 And they are patriotic and they, they don't like the destruction. 228 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,360 But this destruction is coming in, as I said, with Agenda 2030 229 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,480 in every direction they're being hit. 230 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,440 And this is just a scapegoat. This is the way they vent their 231 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,640 anger, and This is why we have to. 232 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,520 Be careful. But yes, absolutely. 233 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,320 My, my worry is that that their anger is going to be vented in 234 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,120 the wrong direction. And I'm not saying that the, 235 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,720 the, the immigration issue is not an issue that needs to be 236 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,400 resolved, but I don't, I think that we're very, very close to 237 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,760 the point where that issue is going to be resolved violently. 238 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,560 And no matter who's saying keep calm and carry on, that, that 239 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,560 ain't how it's going to be because, because you're 240 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,920 absolutely right. People have been, are, are, have 241 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,080 been wind up to boiling point. Now that on the issue of the 242 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,360 flags, umm, Charles said that flying flags in other countries 243 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,720 is normal. Uh, if you think about it, the, 244 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,640 the George Cross has been demonized in this country for 30 245 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,680 years, 40 years, because it has been, it is, it is a flag which 246 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:49,400 has been, uh, associated with, uh, the National Front or with 247 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:55,120 the various other so-called. Football supporters. 248 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. 249 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,480 And the only time, but but who's who, who made that, who 250 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,880 demonized it in that way the mainstream press did. 251 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,280 And the only time that you were allowed to bring the the George 252 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,360 Cross out was when England was playing in, in the World Cup or 253 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,320 in the EUR or something, right? That was the only time you're 254 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,040 allowed to bring it out. Otherwise it was a symbol of 255 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,680 right right wing extremism, right? 256 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,480 That should that should be given people a clue. 257 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,640 Yeah. Right on the issue of of so I'm 258 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,280 not, I'm not for one second suggesting that the migrant 259 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:35,760 issue should not be dealt with, but dealing with issues when, 260 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,760 when feelings are high as they are at the moment, you're likely 261 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,240 to end up with the wrong outcome. 262 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,240 It's the same with, you know, the fact of the the fact of the 263 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,200 matter is, Sandy, as you know, with devolution and so on, 264 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,840 constitutionally this country is screwed. 265 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,440 Our our governance is screwed in this country. 266 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,600 How do you deal with that? Well, obviously you've got to 267 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,400 have a conversation about how we intend to be governed in the 268 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,040 future. But the danger with things at 269 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,359 the moment is that actually there aren't very many people in 270 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:11,359 the country know enough about how governance works and how it 271 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,400 should work that they won't be taken down the an even more 272 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,760 extreme version of the devolution agenda that we're 273 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,520 seeing at the moment and, and right into the arms of Agenda 274 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,800 2030. That's very, very likely. 275 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:28,400 I believe that the migrant issue is aside from digital ID is on a 276 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,400 more broader on a broader issue is absolutely going to bring us 277 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,520 into the arms of Agenda 2030. It's also going to encourage us 278 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,360 to support further activities abroad. 279 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,320 And so you know it, it's what do you say to people. 280 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:52,600 There is no simple one line thing that you can say to 281 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,080 people. It has to be a conversation. 282 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,720 And so that conversation, I think as David said, Charles's 283 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:07,680 first segment today begins this conversation, this particular 284 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,080 conversation today. And but it doesn't end today 285 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,280 because it has to be something that we have over a longer 286 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,200 period of time. And and so I don't think there's 287 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,200 a quick and easy answer to that question. 288 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,160 No, it's difficult because when, when when you look at the 289 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,240 Olympics and I always remember, you know, weird though, it was 290 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,520 the Olympic ceremony when it was in London and they had, they had 291 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,840 Glastonbury tour and they, everyone was sticking their 292 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,320 flags in it. You know, everybody's proud to 293 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,200 stick their flag into, you know, they were proud to stick their 294 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,800 flag in flag into the tour and say, you know, This Is Us, we're 295 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,040 from Denmark, we're from. And there there is that sense of 296 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,640 national pride, which I think is actually quite healthy in lots 297 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,280 of ways, so long as it doesn't become extreme. 298 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,160 And and I don't think most people in this country are 299 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,000 extremists. They're not they are concerned. 300 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,360 But there is an element obviously of extreme racism 301 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,720 going on. And as we saw in that, in that, 302 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,800 I mean, you know, big sort of thuggy people, you know, really 303 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,240 behaving very badly. And so, you know, whether 304 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,440 whether that will will, will take hold, I, I'm not so sure it 305 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,560 will. I hope not, but I would hope 306 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:26,320 that people are more measured and, and really understand. 307 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,200 And if they do go to these marches, they, they actually 308 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,440 keep their cool and you know, do, you know, don't, don't, 309 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,240 don't get involved because what they want is civil war. 310 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,240 And we, we can't descend down that way because. 311 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,120 Then they can. You're not saying the the the 312 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,960 people on the March want that, but the government wants that. 313 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,760 Yeah, the government want that exactly. 314 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,800 Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think, I 315 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,880 think, I regret to say, I think that's, uh, absolutely the case 316 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,840 because, you know, if we think about the emergency cars that 317 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,720 were brought in as a result of COVID and those become much 318 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:08,640 more, there's certainly much more scope for even more 319 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,840 draconian limitations placed on people if you are on war 320 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:13,280 footing.