Good morning and welcome to UK column viewers and listeners.
Delighted to have very, very interesting guest with me today,
gentleman who contacted me a couple of weeks ago as a result
of a resignation letter. So my guest today is Joe West
and he resigned recently as the local chairman for reform.
And this is in the Derbyshire area.
And Joe was very kind to send me a copy of his letter.
And what we're going to do today is have a discussion around the
reasons why he's resigned. And I've absolutely no doubt
that that discussion is going to lead us into, into a little bit
more detail and analysis around the, we'll call them the
opposition parties that have arisen in UK, which probably
UKIP is one of the the key ones. But job, thank you.
Thank you very much for agreeing to come and do an interview with
me today. My pleasure, it's it's a honour
to be with you. Thank you very much.
Well, I've learnt that you've, you've actually been a follower
of the UK column for some time. So would you share with the
audience, how did you find us and when was that?
Oh, a very long time ago was to do with the British Constitution
Group. And I went to see you at Stoke
many years ago. The that whole movement I was
involved with. I did think the British
Constitution Group would lead the way, but it didn't.
But then eventually you sort of like turned into the UK column
and I started following the UK column to do with that.
And I've been following you for years and really the, the level
of information that you guys give out is the best in this
country without without any doubt.
And I do follow an awful lot of social media.
I do follow an awful lot of channels, UK columns the best.
Thank you very much for those kind words.
And I'll just say yes, I also think the British Constitution
Group did a lot of extremely good work.
And but the key thing it was that it was never a party.
It was, it was a fairly loose group of individuals who had
concerns about what was then seen quite rightly as a as an
ongoing attack on the constitution and indeed system
of law in this country. But it wasn't a political party
And UK column gave a lot of support to that.
And of course, we helped set up the conferences and I think the
biggest conference that used the word we because it encapsulates
everybody who was working hard at that stage.
I think the biggest audience we had for one of those events was
over 500. It was about 540.
That could well have been the Stoke conference.
So important things going on there and well, wonderful that
you should have found us. And we're still doing our best
to push out information. Ladies said said to me a couple
of days ago, the thing about the UK column news is it can be what
she described as an information cascade, which I thought was a
really interesting comment. OK, well your letter which I I
have here was dated the 10th of February 2025.
So obviously back in February you were feeling uncomfortable
with what was happening in the Reform Party and you decided to
resign. Tell us what was happening.
It's best for me to tell you when I joined Reform, which was
in 2021. Now it's still under Richard
Tyson those days and Richard Tyson come out with a policy
opposing vaccine passports. At the time, that was a policy I
strongly agreed with. I regard vaccine passports as a,
a means to create a papers pleased society, you know, a
police state. And so I thought, well that's
great, somebody's standing up against vaccine passports reform
as well as the Brexit thing. Obviously the Brexit thing is
very important to me because I was involved in UKIP before that
and I was involved in the Referendum Party before that.
So leaving the European Union at an essential political ambition
as far as I was concerned for for the British people.
So I joined Reform back in 2021. I was chosen, selected to stand
as the Reform UK candidate for South Derbyshire in the 2024
election, very proud to do so. And over the moon that we
inflicted damage that we did on the Conservative government.
We got rid of the Conservative government who I held in utter
contempt for telling us lies years after year after year.
So it was a wonderful thing. So I was over the moon in in
June, July, I beg your pardon. This year I got 9000 votes, came
third. But as I said, we managed to get
rid of the sitting Conservative MP in South Derbyshire, a lady
called Heather Wheeler, and even though we replaced it with
Labour, I felt sure that the the plan of the destruction of the
UNI party, which was to get rid of the Conservatives first and
then go for Labour, was on track.
Wonderful. September came along last year
and an event took place then where our county organiser was
fired, which was a strange thing to happen because she was such a
good county organizer and every every constituency in Derbyshire
really liked it. All those who stood for general
election who then became party chairman of their local branches
really liked this lady. So that was an anomaly and I
want to point that out. It was a strange thing to happen
because it does have a bearing on why I resigned in the
following February. And This is why I need to go
back in time to explain to your viewers what happened that led
up to my resignation in February.
You know, in the beginning of February before Rupert and all
the rest of them, I resigned first.
Now I'll go to the the next issue that came up, which was
after the the firing of our county organiser, wonderful
lady. We then had the Richard Tice
episode where Richard Tyes described supporters of Tommy
Robinson as that lot. OK, now I want to make it clear
I'm not a Tommy Robinson supporter.
OK, I watched how the Tommy Robinson issue broke up UKIP
back in 2018. I watched it happen.
I saw how Richard Brayne was basically kicked out from being
the the leader of the party even though he was voted in, simply
because he was trying to bring peace between the two factions
of UKIP. So I'm not a Tommy Robertson
man, but I I had to respond to my members in my branch
complaining to me that they wanted to cancel their
memberships because Richard Tice had described them as that lot,
because they had sympathetic Tommy Robinson.
So I got on to my members and I said please don't leave us.
Reform is the only game in town. You've got to stick with us.
This is the only way that we're going to win this country back
and have a sensible government. Please don't go now.
One of the members who had wanted to cancel his membership
was a retired coal miner from Swadlincote.
And he said to me, look, I'll stick with you, Joe, but you've
got to understand that all that Tommy Robinson is doing is
trying to defend Shaw. Yeah.
So he said, have you seen the film that Tommy Robinson got
into trouble about, which is called Silence?
And I told him, no, I haven't seen this film.
He said, well, will you watch the film if I stick with you?
And I said, yes, I promise I will watch the film.
Before I watched the film, I then rang up management because
I wanted to know what the management policy was for this.
Yeah. So I rang up management and I
said, look, I got people wanting to cancel their memberships.
I said, what is the party line? How am I supposed to respond
because Richard Tyson's made this comment.
So they turned around and they said to me, let them go, don't
bother with them, just let them go.
Zia has said that they're not wanted and that they're doing
our vetting for us. Now, for me, that's looking my
craw. At the time, yeah, that was
something I didn't like. All I could see was my old
swaddling coat coal miner who I knew in person, and he'd been to
branch meetings. Yeah, being told that he's not
wanted by some city boy. Yeah, and Muhammadan and a Sri
Lankan to boot. Yeah, he doesn't want my old
English coal miner to be a part of his party right now.
That didn't sit well, but I stuck with it.
I just thought, OK, we've got to move on for the sake of the
unity of the party, Will move further forward.
Then the next issue that comes up was to do with vetting and
this, this may sound like it's a detail, but it's an important
detail. We had to vet and make
applications for all those who wanted to stand for County
Council in the upcoming County Council elections.
And these, some of these applications have been put in
back in August. And we keep, I kept on asking my
regional organiser, when are these vettings and these
applications going to come through and be approved?
Because we want to start making plans for who's going to stand
in which ward and, and how we're going to, you know, start to
manage our campaign collectively.
OK. We're, we're fobbed off all the
time. All the time we're fobbed off
with, Oh yeah, it'll be next week or it'll be a couple of
weeks time. Don't worry about it.
It's all in, it's all in hand. Christmas comes and goes and we
still don't have these applications or these vettings
approved. OK, now what?
Your view is to just put part that to one side because it is
important. Now the new year comes, we're
still under wiser, we've got obviously elections coming up in
May and only months to prepare and nobody knows who's going to
stand in which wards and who's going to do what.
I'm getting very frustrated and I'm getting quite angry.
The East Midlands Reform UK conference comes up in
Leicester. I don't go.
I've got better things to do. Yeah.
But at that conference a young man called Andrew Southall, who
had stood in the general election in Dudley, was replaced
in the conference without him even knowing about it by Marko
Longi, who was the sitting Conservative MP who had stood
against reform in the general election and had been replaced
with the by Labour. So I'm fuming, I'm thinking,
well that's wrong. Why have they done that to that
young man? He's put in all the hard yards,
he's done all the hard work and that they've gone and parachuted
in. They're very conservative who
they tried to remove. Surely this is not part of the
plan. Surely we're trying to remove
these conservatives, get rid of these people because they're
obviously the ones that's ruined the country.
That happens on the 3rd of January.
The big bombshell for me comes next.
The following week on the 10th of January, the whole of Amber
Valley Reform UK leadership resign right now.
I'd heard undercurrents about this, I would, but they kept it
secret to themselves until the moment when they'd all resigned.
The reason why they resigned is because their leader, Alex
Stevenson, had been suspended on December the 15th, unbeknownst
to the rest of us. Yeah, and he himself hadn't
found out to December the 29th by Reform UK and by Zia, Yeah.
Now the thing about Amber Valley that I want all your viewers to
bear in mind is they are the best Reform UK branch in
Derbyshire. That shadow of a doubt, really
enthusiastic, did loads of work. They had parish councillors,
they had town councillors, they had county councillors, they had
the whole shoot match going on. They even used to do litter
picking drives. They were really well liked in
the local community in a way that none of the other
constituencies have been able to match.
They were the best. They were the, in matter of
fact, they could have even been the best in the East Midlands,
but they were certainly the best branch in Derbyshire.
They were targeted by the management deliberately and then
wiped out. Now that's a very important
thing that I want your viewers to understand is that the best
branch in Derbyshire was deliberately targeted to be
wiped out, to be decimated, yet to have its leadership removed.
And I want you to understand that because I believe that that
is the intention for reform as a whole.
The intention is to remove all the real reformers, all the best
people in the party, you know, all the real activists who'd
been with it for years. Yeah.
And replace them with either Tories, Lib Dems, Labour.
They don't care. Yeah.
Just so long as you're somebody who's really in it just for the
political process rather than for the ideology of saving the
country. They want professional
politicians, which is why in my letter, which I now I wrote in
the beginning of February, after, after giving due
consideration all these things that have gone on.
Yeah, and speaking to other people about the matter, I did
give it plenty of counsel before I wrote this letter.
I wrote my letter to Zia and I said basically your
professionalisation of the party is essentially the Toryisation
of the party. That's what your intention is.
Your intention is to remove all the real reformers, all the most
dedicated and ideological of activists, and replace them with
party men, with placemen, with people who only in politics
simply to feather their own nest.
You know, the typical politician types, people who think, well,
I'm in, I'm in the local council.
That means, you know, I'm on the inside.
I can get certain perks, as it was to being a counsellor, as
well as the prestige. Those kind of people, the very
kind of people that make politics in this country so bad
and so corrupt. Yeah.
And that's what this man Zeer Youssef was going about, making
sure that he was doing. He was going to put people in
all of his branches wherever he could, who weren't idealogs, who
did, who weren't true believers. He wanted people who were in it
just for their own advantage. Joe, thank.
Thank you very much for giving us that introduction.
And I, I think it is a key introduction.
I think we can tell our audience because for me it was very
significant that when you kindly e-mail through your letter of
resignation and I, I read it and then, then we had a, a chat on
the telephone. And one of the things that I
said at the beginning of that conversation is before you tell
me your side of the story, let me tell you a few things that I
experienced in UKIP. And I can say to the audience, I
was involved with UKIP back in the very early days.
So I think it was about 2002 or soon after.
Roger Natman was the leader at that stage.
That had already been strife. And who?
Who was the other gentleman? My notes here, Kilroy Silk.
He disappeared off and tried to form a new party called Veritas.
But I initially had been looking myself for a party that was
going to make proper change and fight back against what I saw as
an organised destruction of the country.
And UKIP was the direction that I went into into and what I then
discovered was a series of events that happened such that
when I read your resignation letter, I was thinking, my
goodness, this is like ticking off a template.
So that's me setting the little a little bit of the scene and
I'll talk more about my own experiences.
But let's come back onto your resignation letter itself,
because it's a pretty strong letter.
I don't know whether you've got a copy in front of you.
I haven't. You have you.
You, you lead the way. Well, I, I think because it, we
can more or less break it up into blocks.
But you say in your second sentence that you don't have
confidence in Nigel Farage as leader of Reform or in the
manage, in your management of the party.
And there you're talking about the party chairman, Sia Youssef.
And then you talk about why you went on to become a candidate in
South Derbyshire and you wanted to help destroy the UNI party
system. And I think that's an extremely
accurate description of what we're up against.
And you were very pleased about the defeat of the Conservatives,
which you just mentioned. You say let Labour was obviously
going to be the next target. And then you'd you'd had to
completely reconsider things. And the first thing you talk
about is the fact that the party was not democratic and and the
inferences, although improvements to the democracy in
the party had been promised, these hadn't materialized.
So if I just give you that as the first chunk as I've picked
it up, what what's your response?
What was so bad in the party that you were having to
specifically comment on the the lack of democracy?
That goes back to the September conference at the NEC.
Nigel had a vote at the conference for a constitution.
If you actually look at the constitution, it means that only
really the board, who Nigel will appoint can then say that Nigel
can be challenged. OK, so that there is no system
by which. Anybody who was the leader, not
just Nigel Frage, but anybody who was the leader could be
challenged or removed by the membership.
Now also my branch members made this point.
I didn't notice. They said why is it that only
the attendees institution published beforehand?
Yeah, so that everybody could have a look at it and discuss
it, you know, so it could be debated.
It was dropped in there at the conference, and only the
attendees of the conference could vote, not the membership
as a whole. Right.
So even though this constitution has been adopted, it's only been
adopted by a small minority of the membership of the form.
When you're involved with it, you sort of things are brought
about by people above you in the management system, so you have
to take them on board. In retrospect, I realise that
Ben Habib was right. Ben Habib has made the point
since that he wanted Nigel to democratise the party and matter
of fact he even even joined because he told Richard Tyes
that the party needed to be a more Democratic Party because
that way it would represent the people better.
Joe, if I may just break in here just to clarify for the
audience, Ben, Ben Habib was deputy was was a dual deputy
leader for reform. You will know better than I do,
but I think we need to clarify his position.
His deputy chair, deputy leader, basically the second in command
to Richard Tyson until Nigel Farage comes back on the 3rd of
June out of nowhere after saying that he wasn't going to get
involved when the September conference constitution was
voted on by the attendees only. Yeah.
Now this constitution made clear that only a board, a board that
would be appointed by Nigel Farage could allow a challenge
to Nigel Farage as the leader of the party.
So it it it's essentially meant that only Nigel's appointees and
his friends were going to be the ones who were allowed to say
that Nigel could be challenged as the leader of the party.
Well, that's just that means his his position is unassailable.
Yeah, in all practicality, he cannot be challenged.
That's no good. That's not democratic.
That's not the way any party should be run.
So in hindsight, Ben Habib, who was the party chair, Yeah, who's
also deputy leader, who had got involved with reforms on the on
the proviso when talking to Richard Tice that they would
democratise the party as soon as the general election's over, Ben
was given the boot and basically replaced by Zia Youssef.
Now, at the time, I think simply thought that that was a
reshuffle. Yeah, I didn't take any that
much notice of it. I thought it was a reshuffle
simply because Ben Habib had not won his seat in Wellingborough.
Yeah, looking back on it now, I see that Ben Habib's removal was
entirely due to his, his demand that he'd made for quite some
time, that the party be democratised.
And Nigel was not going to have that.
Nigel didn't want the party democratised.
He wanted it as his fifedom. Yeah, for him to rule as he
pleased with Zia Youssef being his, you know, if if Nigel
Farage was King John and then Zia Youssef is his Sheriff of
Nottingham. This is fascinating because it's
a description which I'm going to say to the audience.
I I can understand from what I've witnessed happening around
UKIP and and Nigel Farage's position.
So the democracy side, you see Ben Habib go, there was another
gentleman with it, was it David Ball?
David Ball. David wasn't pushing for the
democratisation in the same way as Ben was.
Ben was the big man when it came to pushing for democratisation
and I think that's why he was flicked off.
He was got rid of because he posed too much of a problem,
because he is very popular amongst the activists in the
membership. He really is.
Yeah. And that's still to the.
As a matter of fact, he's more popular now with everything
that's happened with the Rupert Low situation.
Yeah. It's Ben was the Canary in the
coal mine way back when. Yeah.
So we're talking back in June, back in July, it was Ben who was
saying that we were going to have problems.
Right. It's OK.
And later on in, well later in the letter you of course
mentioned what had happened in Derbyshire and you've you've
really given some overview of that in your introduction.
But in the remainder of your letter you were constantly
referring to other people who, who had concerns in the party
and were speaking out. And let me see down here you
talk about the resignation of Howard Cox at one stage.
For exactly the same issues, Yeah.
For Howard Cox, the problem was not being able to mention Tommy
Robinson. Now, as I've said before, I'm
not a Toby Robertson man, but I can see why for a great many
people who vote before Tommy Robertson is somebody they have
a great deal of sympathy for and who they support and for, for
Howard Cox not to be able to mention Tommy Robertson is,
well, that's far too controlling.
You know, when you have a real Democratic Party, you need a lot
of robust ideas. Essentially, politics is about
the exchange of ideas and ideas being put into the marketplace
and everybody talking about them.
That's how you find out which is the best idea and to be able to
turn around to somebody who's a leading light in your party.
And Howard Cox is because don't forget that Fair Fuel campaign
that he runs means that he has an awful lot of popularity even
before he stepped into reform. So you've got this leading
light, this man who's well known, this man who's not being
too provocative. All he's saying is what's
happening to Tommy Robinson is wrong.
Yeah. And I and people should look
into it now for Reform to then turn around and say, we're
getting rid of you. We don't want you to talk about
that. It's time that you went.
That to me is far too controlling, especially for a
party that's supposed to be about free speech.
And that's what Reform, that's one of the things that Reform
stands on, is that we want free speech.
We don't want to be told what we can say and what we can't say.
Yeah. And for them to turn around to
to our own leading lights and say, well, do you know what?
You don't like what you're saying, so it's time for you to
go. That's wrong.
Let's just end because there's a couple of critical, well, very
short paragraphs right at the end.
You, you say, I'll, I'll read this out for you.
It's clear to me that your drive for the professionalization of
Reform is actually a drive for Toryisation of Reform.
And you, you end here by saying I, I did not join Reform UK to
continue the treacherous government of a parasitic ruling
class who nested in London, have neither love nor loyalty to the
British people, their customs, traditions, law or religion.
I pray that you and you're referring there to to the
chairman that you and Nigel Farage fail in your endeavour to
mislead the British people. So Joe, powerful words from you.
You're not, you're not mincing your words in sending this
letter into the party. And do do you want to add
anything for the audience following those statements?
What I would say to the British people and to anybody watching
this, regardless of where in the world you are, is that I have
now come to the conclusion that we have certainly in England a
class in London who see it as their way of life to manage and
to manipulate the ordinary people.
And I think that is evil. And I stress the word evil
because it is opposed to everything that is good,
everything that is truthful, honest, generous and courageous.
I look at the people who run this country in the City of
London and in Whitehall and in Westminster and I just see a
bunch of criminals, liars, and frankly, people who are quite
happy to see other people die in order for them to achieve their
goals and their aims. And I, I want to stress that I'm
in it's, it's not just our local, as it were, England,
Scotland, Wales, Ireland, way of life.
That's, that's been challenged here.
This political class, this bureaucratic and corporate
parasite class extend their tentacles to places like Libya,
like Syria, like Iraq, like Afghanistan, and now like
Ukraine. They cause mass murder in order
to advance their program. Their ideology, which I believe
is only about power and privilege and pay.
It has no other ideology than that.
Now I could go more metaphysical about it, but I won't.
I will stick to the principles that as far as I'm concerned,
these people who run our country, not just our country,
but the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, I
believe that the Anglosphere is run by people who have a
Frederick Nietzsche ideology, which is that God is dead and
there is only the will to power. I agree with everything you've
said there. I could certainly couldn't
disagree with anything you've you've said there.
Joke. And if I think back to my early
days, so I've, I've mentioned right back to the beginning of
UKIP, I was looking at material which was essentially describing
the organised breakdown of UK. And one particular book, it's
very difficult to buy now because it's very expensive, but
you can actually get the PDF online was Christopher's Story's
book which was entitled The EU Collective enemy of its member
states. And in the first few pages of
that book was a table which the footnote said that the
information in the table had come from a KGB defector who was
Yuri Besmanov. People can find him on on
YouTube. But essentially the the table
described an attack that was to be carried out on Western
society, first of all to demoralise it, then to
destabilise it. And the final part is to have
total breakdown whereupon a new society would be formed.
And that was actually called a normalization process because
that happened to be a term which I think originated in Soviet
ideology. But sat with a cup of tea.
I went through the table and I could literally tick off each
thing as it was happening. The breakdown of education law
being made inconsistent, victimizing the victim, the
military being destroyed, the introduction of the homosexual
agenda, every single thing in the table you could take off.
And as a recently retired military person, I thought to
myself, the country is clearly under attack.
I regarded it as subversion. I didn't believe that at that
stage we could pin down who was, who was ultimately behind the
policies, but you can nevertheless see these very
destructive policies. And so the the words you've
used, possibly some people listening or watching this
interview might think that's a bit strong, but for me, this is
absolutely the case. We've got, we've got a, a
system, we've got individuals and ideology attacking UK.
But as you quite rightly point out, their tentacles are
unleashing this unbelievably cruel agenda in overseas
countries and in Ukraine alone now we've, we've clearly got
over well over 1,000,000 1/2 casualties dead and wounded as a
result of their policy. So that's, that's really our
starting point isn't it, for a discussion on what's what's been
going on in UK politics. I was born in 1966.
OK, so as a boy I would watch my favorite films were either
cowboy films or war films. So I'm brought up on that
ideology that we fought the Nazis and with guns and tanks
and warships and aeroplanes, and that it was a real kinetic war.
Yeah. That's what we were brought up
to think about, how we fought and defeated our enemies.
I now realize that the war that we are now involved in, which
in, in my view has, you know, is a continuation in a way of that
Second World War. Yeah.
It isn't involving tanks or aeroplanes or warships.
It's far more subtle. It really is about mind control
and controlling the way that the masses see themselves and see
life itself. And that's what I think that
we're dealing with. And that's why I think sometimes
people don't realize the the way in which this management
manipulation that has happened to our country has been done in
such a surreptitious and secret way that they have.
All they can see is how slowly and incrementally in that sort
of like Fabian Society fashion, you know, our world has changed.
And they they can't really put their finger on it.
And they because it's not tanks in the street, because they
don't have to take up arms and you know, you're, you're
fighting the enemy and shooting bullets at him.
They don't know how to respond to it.
And I mean, I'm just the same. I was, you know, I've, my
ideology has changed over the years.
Now I recognise the subtlety with which we are being
manipulated and controlled now. It's a very English way of doing
it. Yeah.
It's, it's a very advanced way of doing it.
And you, you know, people shouldn't underestimate the
English. Yeah.
Very clever race of people. Yeah.
And whereas we may have gone out and used gunboats 100 years ago,
we've found different ways of controlling people that don't
involve gunboats. And of course nowadays we have
this new phrase soft power. Soft power is mind control.
That's the top and bottom of it. And that's what we're dealing
with. And that's why the the British
people as a whole have to go back into their own history and
look at their own traditions and their own ways of life that even
only maybe 3 or 4 generations ago we lived, that gave us this
healthy bedrock of life, that LED us to enjoy life better.
Yeah, We're not enjoying life at the moment.
Most people aren't there having to work too hard.
And this has come about not because the Germans crossed the
Channel. This has come about because of
an ideology that has now infected ruling class and is now
being passed on to the rest of the people in this country,
which means that all of us are having to struggle in our daily
lives in a way that we shouldn't have to do.
You know, you go back to say, Harold Wilson back in the 60s
talking about the white heated technology and how life is all
going to be better for us and how boys like me in the 70s used
to watch Tomorrow's World and think, well won't, won't life be
great because everything will be so much easier.
Technology will make life so much easier for us.
We'll all have so much more time, so much more time to enjoy
ourselves. Not the case.
We all have to work so much harder to get well to just to
put a roof over our heads, you know, and, and, and never mind
about the breakdown of the family.
Crikey, you know, the family is the joy and the ambition of all
sensible men and women. You know, for me to be able to
come home and of an evening time, sit down with my wife and
my children and enjoy my dinner and have a laugh and a joke and
hear what they've done today and what they think and what they've
been watching and all the rest of that normal family life.
That is the best part of my day and it should be the best part
of everybody's day throughout this country and throughout the
world. Family life, your wife, your
children, and the best things that you have.
And to think that we all have to work so hard and spend so much
time away from those people, you know, to get what bricks and
mortar, a motor car, you know, it's go on holiday somewhere
fancy, you know, that's not the real deal.
And I think we've been taken down this, we've been LED into
this hole in the ground by a pied Piper ideology that has LED
us Into Darkness. And we don't realize that we've
been LED in there and we have to get back outside into the light,
out of the cabins and learn to live again.
And that's is really the, the essential part is learning that
family life and that other human beings are the best things in
life and not things. And I think that's, that's the
real crux of the matter. And that's really how they've
learnt to control us is by materialism and saying that
material goods. Are what you really should be
aiming for as as well as the sort of like the hedonism of
personal gratification through sex and drugs and rock'n'roll,
you know? Yeah, Job you, you've covered a
lot there, all of it pertinent. And I'm going to say we'd
definitely get in amongst that. Before we do, I just just want
to draw us back a little bit to the fact that you've started
out, you know, describing how you've left a political party,
you've been disappointed and you've left a political party.
And I'm very aware that there are many people out there that
are looking to the, the alternative political parties as
a sort of life boy to save, save them from the, the system that
you described. So people have many people,
thousands of people have have spent probably millions of hours
trying to support parties like UKIP or the Brexit Party or
Reform in order to fight back against the political system.
And I can imagine that many of the people that have put time
into these parties are pretty sensitive when I'll say we
because it it is you and I, we start to discuss problems within
these organizations because I think some people think, Oh my
goodness, just when we start to see progress, just when we start
to see a fight back, then here are people criticizing parties
that are trying to do the right thing.
And I think, I think we need to discuss this because my
intention and I'm sure it isn't yours, my intention in having
this discussion is not to cut the ground out from people that
have put a lot of time and effort into trying to challenge
the existing system. I think that the the key thing
which I'd like to do is inform people in a way that they can
see who the enemy is better and how it actually can attack them
and manipulate things which they assume are one thing, but in
reality it's something completely different.
So if if we come back to your experiences of reform, you've
picked up pretty strongly, of course on Nigel Farage and his
leadership of the party. And you've also picked up very
strongly on the chairman, Mr. Yousaf.
And I was very interested when I saw a party chairman coming into
post who's got a professional background with the banking
system. Goldman Sachs is part of it.
I can't remember who, the other one, Merrill Lynch or something
like that. Merrill Lynch.
Yes, and a person who in coming to the country of say to his
credit in 1980, goes on to be partner in a company with a
value of about 230 million and when he sells it, he makes a
call 30 million. But my brain says to me that
this man cannot be in touch with what life is like on the ground
for the average person who's having to work and probably man
and woman, husband and wife partners working full time in
order to have a house. Reform with Nigel Farage brought
in a party chairman who seems to me to have been part of the very
establishment that we might point a finger at and say has
been causing the trouble. Do you think that's unfair?
If if I point a finger at this man and say what exactly is he?
No, I don't think so. But it's not just Zia Youssef.
You know, Zia Youssef could be anybody.
He was put in place because he is a Goldman Sachs, Merrill
Lynch City boy. You know he's there.
I have no doubt that Nigel Farage didn't pick Zia Youssef.
Nigel Farage was told that he had to pick Zia Youssef.
All right, the powers that be that control Nigel Farage have
put Zia Youssef into place. A lot of branch activists will
say, oh, if only we could get rid of Zia Youssef, you know,
everything would be all right. No, it won't, because Nigel and
Zia both work for the same sort of people.
And the problem we have is what you just mentioned there about
ordinary people not having a say.
The problem we have in our country, and it's in every
country, is when you get to a certain level of materialistic
wealth. Yeah.
You're so cut off from what it is to be ordinary, you know, to
worry about paying the mortgage, to worry about paying the
electric bill. You know, you have no idea what
it is to be an ordinary person. And so, you know, the idea that
the troubles of ordinary people are not that important to you,
You have no empathy with them, you know, And that's what we're
dealing with. For somebody like Zia Yusuf,
he's a rich kid. He doesn't know what it is not
to be a rich kid. He's been, he's been involved in
in City of London enterprises since he's been in his 20s.
All right. So from being a young man, all
he knows is how to get the easy money.
And it is easy money. There's no two ways about it.
Yeah. And that's what he knows.
Well, no, that's that's interesting analysis.
So I'm going to bring in toys at the same time.
I've got some additional comment about Mr. Toys, but but isn't he
another one? Isn't he another person that's
come into the party, largely, it would seem to me, as a result of
wealth? With Richard, you've got
somebody who did carry the party along.
Yeah, and it did use his own money to keep that going.
You know, I don't get me wrong. I'm not going to kick every,
every rich boy. Yeah, I'm not going to kick
every, every public schoolboy and say, you know, I'm a grammar
schoolboy. But I'm not going to kick, you
know, I used to kick Stowe boys when we used to play rugby
against them. But I'm not going to kick them
just because they're public school boys and they're rich
kids, right? I'm not saying every one of
them. Yeah.
It cannot be patriotic and cannot have integrity.
Yeah. And a sound moral and ethical
view of life. Right.
I'm not going to say that. But what I am saying is when you
have people who are removed from the ordinary way of life, then
there's no two ways about it. It's going to be difficult for
those people to understand just how important ordinary practical
solutions are. You know, they can live in their
their ivory towers because they literally do live in ivory
towers. Well, you only have to go into
London to see, you know, that's where those people live.
And they don't know what it is. They're not interested in what
it is. As a matter of fact, for some of
them, and unfortunately, I think for an awful lot of people,
they'd rather not be associated with poor, you know, that's a
bit beneath them. And it's, it's a tragic thing.
And for me it, it, it does have a religious connection.
You know, when our Lord says, blessed are those who are poor
in spirit, that's because those of us who are poor in spirit
have to call upon God, you know, to, to find the strength to
carry on because we don't have the power, we don't have the
money. When you have power and money,
you don't sometimes need God, you know?
And that means you also don't need ethics and morals because
you simply have power and money. A really fascinating comment.
A lot there. Am I moving off the subject
again? I beg your pardon?
I knew this would be an interesting discussion because
in, in having a brief conversation previously it, it
was just so apparent there was so much to talk about.
But I just at the moment I just want to stay on the issue of
parties and party politics because I think this is a very
important thing to try and help wider audience understand what
is going on. And also maybe what we see that
other people don't quite see. That's if I go back to my time
in UKIP, I looked to see where was a party that was challenging
what was happening. And for me a lot of the
poisonous political agenda that was coming into the country at
that time was clearly coming from one place and that was the
European Union. And the European Union power was
being promoted in UK. It was clearly, if it was
unchecked, going to have massive impact not only on our
Constitution but also on our system of law.
We were we, we could become a completely different country
overnight. And therefore for me, a lot of
my focus was in believing that a lot of the danger was, was
coming through the European Union.
And the only party that was really standing up against that
was UKIP. So I got involved and in my
brief time with the UKIP I did a lot of work.
I, I canvassed, I put out leaflets, I did all sorts of
things. But at the same time, I was
digging into areas myself and one of those areas was looking
into the political charity Common Purpose.
And I'm, I'm talking to you about it because a few minutes
ago you were talking to the audience about how you saw the
psychological attack on, on the country as being very
significant. So if if I go back and, and I'm
talking the early 2000s, I've got to the point where I think
I'm allowed to say I was from a military background.
I got a certain certain amount of knowledge about intelligence
analysis in various areas and I believed I was witnessing
deliberate subversion within the country.
And my analysis was evidence based.
I was dealing in documents, Freedom of Information requests.
And very early on, I attempted to get the UKIP leadership to
pay attention to what what what I was talking about.
And in particular, I was looking very early on to get Nigel
Farage to pay attention to what I was talking about because I
assumed that he would actually be really interested when I
said, look, I I can demonstrate at least one of the ways in
which our society is being attacked.
But to my surprise, he would never engage.
I never did get to sit down with Nigel Farage and talk about what
I was seeing, even though at one stage I had quite a lot of
connectivity in the party and I was I was getting other white
senior people in the party to engage.
So I'm going to say to you, Job, that at that very early stage, I
was fascinated as to why Nigel Farage would not engage with me
when I was putting factual documentary evidence on the
table about how the country was being subverted.
And before I add a little bit more to that, I'd pass it back
to you, you know, for comment or an explanation as to why I might
have got that response from him. I did have a little crisis of
conscience with my resignation letter and I, I, I had joined
the political party and for the same reasons that you I've
joined Referendum Party, UKIP and Reform.
And that's because I in myself, I wanted to do something.
I've always been of the opinion that it's no use just shouting
at the television. Yeah, if you want to effect
change, you have to get up and go and do it yourself.
And that's why, as you say, I'm not interested in trying to cut
the ground from underneath people who want to be involved
in politics. Yeah, I want everybody as much
as I wish more people took time to study politics and to think
about politics because it is so important in our everyday life.
So I'm not interested in that. I join political parties because
I want to affect change. I want to make something happen.
And then when you come up against party structures and
things that happen in political parties that don't make sense
and they don't make sense because you think, well, surely
this is a sensible thing. I'm telling you a sensible
thing. Let's go.
Let's follow the sensible policy.
Let's try and do things and support people who are being
good. And then when you see things
happening in political parties don't make sense.
Yeah. When, when good people are
kicked out or maligned or when good policies are ignored, Yeah.
When things that you should be following up are are are just
displaced and left to one side, you know, you begin to think
simple. You think, oh, well, it must be
me. You know, I mean, I'm not in
control. So, you know, I'm a part of the
party. But you know, the leadership.
I've got a better idea. The problem I have now when I
wrote my resignation letter in February and I had this crisis
of conscience, is that I've come to the conclusion that it is a
possibility and this is a possibility.
I want everybody to think about that as soon as any political
party in this country begins to get traction and begins to
affect any kind of popularity and change, it is Co opted and
it is controlled. Yeah.
And we are all being manipulated all the time through these
political parties. And that's the worry that I now
have. Those are the ideas that over
these last few weeks I'm beginning to consider and
contemplate. Yeah.
And what is the resolution if that is in fact the truth?
And I don't know what you think about that.
So you tell me what you think about that, that position.
I agree with that. That idea that actually what
we've got going on is, is some very simple in some ways
sophisticated in other ways, control of the political system,
not just through the established mainstream parties, Labour and
Conservative, but actually targeting any other party that
dares show its head in order to challenge what the UNI party
system Conservatives Labour are doing.
I, I think this is absolutely correct and This is why going
back to your resignation letter, it was just uncanny for me
because I could, I read what, what you talked about in that
resignation letter and then things came back into my head.
As an example, you, you, you talked about the fact that when
people in the Reform Party were doing good work and they were
making progress, they were then undermined or abandoned.
And what came into my head was, I can't remember the exact year,
but it was the year when UKIP had tremendous success in the
local council elections. And in Plymouth, two of the
ladies that I'd got to know were the key Plymouth organisers for,
for UKIP, a lady called Carol and a lady called Kate.
And they were so buoyed up by the fantastic local election
result from UKIP that they were immediately talking to the
senior UKIP team and saying what do we do now?
Because we've we're, we've got the, the political system
moving. People know us.
We've had fantastic results if you like, we've got a
breakthrough. We need to reinforce it.
We need to get the activists out on the ground now benefiting
from from all that good work and success in the local elections.
And to their astonishment, these local ladies were told by the
senior UKIP leadership, oh you go away and have some time off
and and have a rest, have a holiday.
And one of them who was quite a feasty lady, Carol, she said
what are you talking about? We should now be pushing as a
party to, to, you know, reinforce the breach and, and to
have even greater success. What are you talking about?
We should have a holiday. But nevertheless, that was the
policy that the senior UKIP leadership enforced, that all
the local activists went into a black hole.
There was, there was no further direction from from the party as
to what they should be doing on the ground.
And of course as the activists were concerned, all of their
hard work in the elections then started to break down it.
It started to sort of dissolve because you didn't have the
leadership, you didn't have the direction, you didn't have the
enthusiasm from from the senior league UKIP leadership team.
And that particular incident incident was a key one for me
where I thought what we've got happening here is a deliberate
policy by the UKIP leadership to make sure that where success was
taking place, it had limited effect.
All that effect was dissipated. So I'll pass it back to you
again. But that's what one of the key
things that came into my head when I read your resignation
letter with Reform. Well, I think that's exactly the
case. That's the opinion that I've
come to with Reform and I did see it with UKIP.
I saw it back with UKIP back in 2018.
I saw going back to the Tommy Robinson thing, there was Gerard
Batman just stood down. Gerard Batman was trying to sort
of like bring in the Tommy Robinson element into UKIP.
There was a group within UKIP who under no circumstances
wanted anything to do with Tommy Robinson.
The election for the leadership came up and Richard Brain stood
for the leadership. He won with 53% on the 1st
ballot so they didn't have to have a second ballot, and he
stood with the commitment that he would bring peace between the
two factions. He said if you want to support
Tommy Robinson, you can support Rob Tommy Robinson.
We're not going to kick you out the party.
But equally, yeah, I'm not going to pursue Tommy Robinson to
become part of the party. Yeah, a perfectly rational,
sensible position to take, a really middle of the road
position for him to take. He got in, he was voted in.
He he was in for a month, maybe six weeks.
And I watched as the NEC of UKIP and the chairwoman, Kirsten
Harriet, backed up by the likes of Neil Hamilton and Ben Walker.
Yeah. And a lawyer that they brought
in called Piers Wanshop, did everything they could to make
sure that Richard Gray was completely frustrated in what he
was trying to do, to the point where he and Liz Phillips just
walked away from the party all together.
Now that to me, not so much at the time.
At the time I just thought, well, that's just in infighting
in politics. That's ridiculous.
But now I recognize because I've seen it in reform.
I see the pattern, what they try to do.
I think with political parties especially, like you say, UKIP
or Reform, smaller parties, yeah, or maybe I don't know what
the other ones are. Well, the British British
National Party would be 1. Yeah, but all these parties, I
think what they, what they tried to do is as you just described,
they try to, they get people to a certain point and then they
frustrate them. They realise that frustration is
a really good tactic to use in order to stop people being able
to advance. Yeah, it's that that Fabian
Society are sort of like tactic where if they can frustrate
people, put people off, dishearten people, demoralize
them, you know, so that they just shook their hands and think
what's all this about? You know, it's a really
effective. It's very, again, it's subtle,
Yeah. It doesn't take a lot of energy.
All it takes is a little bit, a few lies here, a bit of
misdirection there. Yeah, a little bit of gossip
there. It's it's it's really easy to
affect. Yeah.
It doesn't take a lot of effort to do.
But you can break down and you can control people's ambitions
or what they want when it comes to politics and how they people
want to live their lives. You can do that.
And it's really easy. And when I think about the
amount of resources that the state has and that the ruling
class have at their disposal to be able to sit down and have a,
let's say they have a meeting and let's say they say, I know,
how are we going to control this patriotic feeling that's rising
in the country? You know, we've got to do
something to be able to manipulate and control it.
So there's going to be parties rise up.
When those parties rise up, we'll put our people in and
they'll be there to control that opposition.
And this is what I've come to the conclusion all political
parties can be. I'm not saying they are, but
they are open to the process of controlled opposition by our
ruling class. And I believe it is our ruling
class that is the problem. And I genuinely think now that
what ordinary people have to do is to turn around and think to
themselves, you know, what, if I keep on waiting for the saviour
to come, the saviour political movement to come and save me,
Yeah, you're going to be wasting your time because you're going
to be waiting for. Because it could well be that
every political party that comes along can be controlled and
manipulated. Yeah.
So what people have to do is stand on their own feet, on
their own connections, their own trust, relationships with people
who are local and close to them. I think that is the way to go.
Don't bother looking up. Yeah, for your leadership, look
to the side, look to your friends, look to your family.
They're the people whom you can work together with to live a
better life. Try as much as you possibly can
to avoid relying upon government, upon the state,
because I truly believe that the real problem is that class of
people who find themselves in the positions of power.
I am. I'm beginning to come to the
conclusion that those particular positions in life, whether it be
Westminster, Whitehall, the top of the civil service, whether it
be the City of London and Commerce, they, they attract
people who have a psychopathy, A psychopathic, sociopathic,
narcissistic ideology. And that's why we have the
problems that we do. And once you've got a
civilization like ours that has now turned its back upon its own
Christian, Protestant, Reformed ethics and morals, and you have
this complete hedonism and will to power ideology where all that
matters is me. Yeah.
And there's no greater transcendent power above me.
Yeah. To which I am beholden.
Once you create that situation, which is what's happened since
the 1960s in this country, yeah, you've got a ruling class who
are without morals, without ethics, don't give a damn except
for themselves. And they are psychopaths and
they are narcissists and they are sociopaths.
And the problem with pyramid systems is they they draw the
few to the top who are the worst kind of people to rule.
Job again, I think this, this analysis is, is, is very good.
Are we just dealing with political parties?
I don't think so anymore. We're dealing with people who
operate above and through political parties.
I don't think there's any doubt about this.
And is there an assembled malevolence at the top of the
pyramid? Without question on my
bookshelf. I'm afraid I can't remember the
author, but I know he was a political, sorry, a Polish
psychologist and he he wrote a book called Political
Ponerology, where ponerology is the study of evil.
And his book is, is, is about how bad people sort of manifest
and are, are, are attracted to positions of power.
I, I was, it was recommended to me many years ago.
It's sitting over on my right hand side on the bookshelf.
And for me that's a text which captures a lot, lot of what you
say. Now I'm I'd, I would like to do
something. I'm actually asking you as a
guest here for the UK column, because I have never really
spoken out before about my experiences around UKIP and, and
Nigel Farage. And, and I, I know that if I've
mentioned Nigel Farage, you know, over the years, there's
always a couple of people that come back to me pretty strongly.
And they say to me, you know, Brian, it's utterly disgraceful
that you should attack Nigel Farage because he's done this
and he's done that. And so I know that if I start
speaking about Nigel and, and UKIP, there will be a little bit
of a backlash. But if, if you will bear with me
on this, and I'm very happy for you to be the, you know, be the
one who holds my feet to the fire.
I just like to share with the audience a little bit more about
my experience. I just talked about the fact
that when we saw progress in Plymouth, it was squashed.
And of course those experiences were reflected by other people
across the country. Because when I started to speak
out and when I started to ask some questions, I was contacted
by other UKIP activists, a lot of them who've been with the
party a long time from other parts of the country.
And they said the same thing is going on here, Brian.
And that told me that the shutdown of successful activism
within the party was coordinated to such an extent that it it it
was being done across the party. But I'll stick with the fact
that in my early days I was warning about subversion in the
country, I was warning about the political charity Common
Purpose. I'd started to give public
talks. Those public talks were always
evidence, document, documentary evidence based.
And I'd started to get a lot of support from people who were
UKIP supporters. And indeed if we just mention
the British Constitution Group as well, when we put on those
big events looking at the attack on the constitution and law and
order in in these wonderful islands, we had a lot of people
from UKIP. They formed a core support base
both for the UK column and and the British Constitution Group.
So I knew that what I was talking about was of interest to
the bulk of the party, a party membership, which was why we
were able to attract such huge audiences.
But at no stage could I get the senior UKIP team under Farage's
leadership to engage with what I was talking about and indeed
other speakers, many of them very well qualified,
particularly in the constitution, were talking
about. So eventually it gets to the
position where relations between myself and Nigel Farage were
frosty to non existent. But what then happened was that
I was banned from attending the more major UKIP events, the
conferences. I was actually banned.
And this then really started to make me wonder what was going on
because I've always been measured in the way that that
I've spoken out on things. I've always been evidence based.
But UKIP leadership under Nigel Farage would not engage with a
word that I said off to one side.
At that time the British National Party was still working
and I got invitation. I think I spoke at 3 BNP events
and I have to say I met some wonderful people.
I did not meet any violent extremists, I meant just people
who were very concerned for their country.
But what fascinated me was that the BNP leadership not only was
keen to understand what I was talking about, they without me
asking, they ended up promoting material where I was warning
about subversion in the UK and in particular the use of this
political charity. So I'll come back to you, Joe.
That was where it got to for me, that in speaking out and saying,
look, this is what I'm seeing and I came from a professional
background, I came from a military background.
Nigel Farage not only would not engage with me, he banned me
from from attending the major UKIP events.
There has to be a reason for this.
I think there is. And I think, right, I'm going to
be, I'm going to go metaphysical on you, right?
As far as I'm concerned, life is a choice between good and evil.
Yeah. And I genuinely believe that
that the these very people that I'm describing as parasites,
vampires, psychopaths, yeah, who run our country, do so because
they in a, in a materialistic way, let's say, rather than a
metaphysical way, they believe in evil.
They believe that it's quite all right to lie.
They believe that it's quite all right for people to die as long
as their advantage is advanced. Yeah.
I believe that they're quite prepared to rob people, to
deprive people of their wealth, to take it off of them,
unlawfully cheat them of it. Yeah.
I believe that these people see that as their right.
Yeah. They're they're superior beings.
So they have the right to do this to you.
Yeah, and I see our political class as a materialistic,
materialistic manifestation of an evil that I'm afraid mankind
has to live with, you know, and until our Lord Jesus Christ
returns, I'm afraid we're just going to have to knuckle down
and deal with people like that. And this is the process that
we're all involved in. People like you, people like me,
people who are watching this programme because if they're
watching UK Column, that means that they are aware that
something is going wrong and they want to find out the truth.
Yeah. You don't come to somewhere like
UK Column because you're happy with GB News or you're happy
with the BBC. Yeah, it's when you're unhappy
with the BBC, you're unhappy with GB News that you come to UK
Column and places like this because, you know, you're not
being told the whole truth and you need to find out the truth.
There's a a feeling inside of us, and I believe that that's a
spiritual reality that exists in human beings.
Yeah, some of us do have this inclination to need and desire
the truth. We it's just something that's
visceral inside of us. We've got to have it.
We need to discover it for our own Peace of Mind, you know, for
our, for the contentment of our own souls.
Unfortunately, there is also the opposite.
There are people who have no interest in the truth
whatsoever, who would rather lies.
They prefer the lie and that you know, the sooner the people
realise that it, it is that kind of a conflict that we're dealing
with. It's not just straightforward
conservative Labour, you know, it's not Democrat, Republican,
you know, it's it's not that straightforward.
It is far more profound and it and I think for a lot of people
that this dawning realisation that the UNI party as we
describe it now has become common parlance.
Yeah. It's used far more now than it
ever was when I was you. Yeah.
People are beginning to understand that it doesn't
matter who you vote for. The government always gets in.
They realise, I mean, you've got the likes of Dominic Cummings
talking about how the, the the the secretaries in the
bureaucracy are actually deciding what the agenda of the
government is going to be. And the ministers are simply the
sales reps. Yeah, they're just presenting it
to the people. And I think that's the that's
the position that we've got to now.
And I don't know if I did you want me to go more into the, the
this I'm fascinated about this book.
You were telling me about, by the way, by this Polish author
about, you know, evil because that's how I see it.
I genuinely see this as evil manifesting itself through a
pyramid structure. You know, like, like Pharaoh.
Yeah. And I believe that the likes of
us are Israel and that we are are trying to escape from this
pyramid structure that is trying to control our lives.
This is fundamental stuff where we've got into to hear, we've
got to at this point tonight, I'm, I'm very happy to talk
about it more. Before we do, let's just put a
little bit of a line under the political side because we've put
some pretty hard comments into the into the airwaves about
what's what's happening with within politics.
I don't think anybody would challenge the idea that it
doesn't matter whether you vote Labour or Conservative, red or
blue, you are in fact voting for a uniparty system where the same
policies will be continued through each successive
government. So there's the pantomime of an
election and, and all of the electioneering, but the reality
is that the individuals may change and their colour may
change, but the centralised policies continue.
And those policies are clearly designed to absolutely wreck
this country. And, and just to qualify that
statement, of course we've heard the phrase Build back better
being used. So the implication is that we've
got to build something better than existing.
But I've reported many times on on 2 politicians.
Danny Kruger was one of them. The other gentleman's name's
gone at my head, but they were on public record saying that the
Conservative government at the time planned to bring in what it
called creative destruction in the public services in order to
herald in a new system of politics and and a new sort of
nation state. And they were vilified.
Danny Kruger, who was a parliamentary candidate at the
time, he was deselected. The other MP, embarrassing
myself because I can't remember his his name, but we'll make
sure it goes up in the notes. He also talked about this and
alongside that statement of creative destruction, I'm going
to say I was one of the few people warning at the time about
a wider government agenda to use what it called disruptors in
order to get into the institutions and the civil
service, to break down a stable, productive management system in
order to make it easier to introduce whatever the new
agenda was. So, so we have seen absolutely
the intent to break, you know, to break down society and
anybody who is trying their best to fight back against this are
going to say we, because I think it's reasonable, we are saying
keep going. So we are not saying we're not
saying stop. We're we're saying keep going.
But whatever party you're in, understand.
What is actually happening around you Because you need to
understand it to be effective. And your key point, I want to
reiterate there was you said instead of looking up for this
saviour to arrive, whether it's Nigel Farage or it's Donald
Trump or it's Elon Musk, wherever he's come from, we
should be looking left and right to our fellow men, fellow man
and woman, in order to deal with good people, whatever colour or
background, who also see what they're fighting.
I just wanted to put that as a baseline in before we move on to
discuss some of some of these more spiritual aspects.
But do you think, do you think that's a reasonable summary?
I think that's a great summary, and I would just like to add 1
point to it about the way in which the country's been broken
down. We have been deindustrialized in
a shocking way. And it doesn't matter whether
it's Conservatives or the Labour Party that have been in
government. We are being deindustrialized.
Yeah, the shutting down of the steel plants, the shutting down
of our coal, our energy. You only have to look at the
potholes in the road, take a look at our high streets or
shutting down. Yeah, it's just one, it's one
attack against our against our whole way of life.
The the fact that our water isn't any good, the fact that
our food isn't any good, the fact that we can't even feed
ourselves. It's just one thing after
another. So I did want to make that point
about the practicality of how it doesn't matter who we vote for,
we're getting the same problems. And of course, the, the, the
main issue of the day is it even though we voted for these
Conservative governments, even though we voted for Brexit, we
get even more mass immigration, which is just compounding the
pressure on everything. So let's move on to the
spiritual now, Brian. Well, I going to say I, I just
want to respond to that one because of course immigration
is, is such a, is such a hot topic and I always enjoy looking
at the camera and saying, if immigration is upsetting you,
then start to research where the migration policies came from.
Where is all this mass migration come from?
And a man that that UK column has pointed at over the years is
the the late Peter Sutherland. Sir Peter Sutherland who was EU
NS ambassador for migration and he's on public record as
effectively stating that we presumably the United Nations,
but political masters, we need more mass migration to break
down the homogeneity of the nation states.
So what we were being told very clearly was that migration was
going to be used as a political weapon to not just break down
the UK, but to break down the Western states.
And of course that is happening. We're all suffering as a result
of unsustainable immigration in this country. 600 odd 1000
people came in last year according to the government
statistics. But those people being used as a
political weapon and many of them suffering themselves and
their home country suffering from the loss of labour and and
young people. I felt it was so important to
say say this joke because because so many people want to
look at migrants and they are the enemy.
When I think we got to look deeper as to how they got here.
As I said at one BMP meeting, and it was very interesting how
the audience reacted to me because I asked at one point
where the people were concerned about immigration and, and they
certainly said they were. And then I asked the audience,
how did they get here? And initially there was silence.
And I said, well, you know, this is a simple question.
Did they fight their way ashore? And again, there was a big
pause. And then, and then a man, a very
big man at the back of the room shouted out, no, we let them in.
And he, he, he used an expletive with it as well.
And I then said, oh, you let them in.
I've always wanted to know who let them in.
And of course, that that produced a pretty explosive
response where we started to discuss who had opened the doors
for this policy. And then I, I just asked another
question. I said OK, if you know you've
been betrayed by your own members of Parliament, is the
enemy the people who've betrayed you or the people who were
invited in? And it it was fascinating to see
how we then got a proper debate going in, in that BBC of course
would have branded it an extreme right wing audience.
That's not what I saw in those people.
But we did get a proper debate about immigration having spelt
out where the problem had come from in the first place.
I agree. I mean, that's one of the the
tweets I've just put out recently is again going back to
this idea that I have about a parasite class, a criminal class
who run this country from the City, from Whitehall and from
Westminster. They are the real enemies of the
English people is London. Yeah, that's the problem.
If we could, well, if we could just make ourselves more county,
if we could just take power back to the shires, we might be
better off. But so long as these people who
are at the top of the pyramid, I go back to this pyramid
symbology, as long as those people are sitting there in
London and telling the rest of us what's good for us, we are
going to have problems. And it won't just be
immigration, it'll be transhumanism.
It'll be, I don't know, doing away with cash that all these
things that we're we're all having to struggle with all come
back not to the symptom, which is, you know, lots of Pakistanis
and Indians and Nigerians coming into the country and putting
pressure on our nation because we can't, we just can't house
them. It's as simple as that.
But it's the real traitors, The real enemies are people who look
just like us. Yeah.
They're as white as you and I are, and they're as English as
you and I are. And they're sitting there down
in London, and they think they have the right to destroy our
lives because they've got a better ideal.
Yeah, and we should just do as we're told and, you know, crawl
up into a corner and die somewhere basically, because I
think that that's basically what they want for the majority.
And they are the real enemy. And people need to focus that
that is where the enemy is, is where the power is.
And let's just end and end by reinforcing that that point with
Tony Blair made a completely open and and publicly reported
statement at one point that his intention was to create a new
political class who would be appointed.
That goes back to your, to your common purpose thing, which you
used to talk about years ago, which I used to listen to and
the post demo, the Post Democratic Society.
Yeah, that's what they were. That's what they were pushing.
They were pushing this. I had some, I mentioned this to
a customer one day about common purpose.
I've been watching one of your things and I happened to just
mention it. And this is in Milton Keynes.
Yeah. And this is at least 15 years
ago. And they said to me, Oh yeah,
they're the new Masons. Common purpose are the new
Masons the the new the new way in which you create a class of
people secretly to control everybody else.
That's, that's very interesting. Joe Blitz, I'm watching the
clock and I, I think we, we, we need to come into a close in a
minute. But you you brought in the
spiritual aspect, which which I think is, is so critical.
And I'll say to the audience that at the weekend I got the
opportunity to do a little interview.
I've still got to edit it, so it's not available yet.
But I spoke to a gentleman called Ross who has been very
active with the church down in Cornwall.
And he was describing to me how the Church of England system in
Cornwall is being absolutely dismantled as a result of
policies which are particularly coming through the Bishop of
Truro, Bishop of Truro's office. And what does it involve?
Well, it basically says we have no money, we've run out of money
and therefore we can't pay vicars.
And therefore, well, unfortunately you can't have a
vicar per parish, per church was the traditional system.
What we're going to have to do is have one vicar for several
churches and that could be 3 or 4 or 5 or 10.
And if you're worried about what the pastoral care is going to
be, well, don't, because we're going to bring in amateurs,
we're going to bring in members of the public who are going to
step in and fulfil the traditional role of the vicar.
And Ross took me through a lot of detail about what he could
see. And ultimately he's saying to
me, Brian, the Church of England has now unleashed a policy to
destroy churches across the UK. And it was a fascinating
interview interview. And I'm, I've got to say that
what he was talking about was making complete sense to me.
I also pointed out to him that in research work that the UK
column had done, we we had Archbishop Welby at the time
very excited that he was working with international bankers and
hedge funds to raise 17 trillion to support the global, the gayer
green agenda. So we can't put ruse on
churches, we can't support the poor in the parish.
But we had the Archbishop of Canterbury drinking champagne
with the likes of Christine Lagarde and others to say we can
raise 17 trillion. This can't be accidental job.
This has got to be calculated destructive policy from the very
top of the Church of England. Absolutely.
I mean, I call Justin Welby. Justin the bastard.
Yeah, because he is, by the way. And his father was personal
secretary to Winston Churchill. Yeah.
Justin before he became a member of the Church of England.
Oh, no. Before he became part of the
clergy. Yeah.
Was involved in trading in the City of London.
So you see where this man is coming from.
He has no interest in spiritual well-being of this country.
He has no interest in saving souls.
He has no interest in telling men, women and children about
Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is the way in which you
learn to have a more abundant life, a healthy life, a happy
life. It's a fact, all right?
For those of you who aren't religious, don't worry about it.
It's just the fact. Go and buy yourself a Bible and
think about things, Read the Bible, think about things.
You will find that Jesus Christ is the man.
Yeah. So when you've got somebody like
Justin. Yeah, coming along and hollowing
out the Church of England because that's what he was put
there to do. As a matter of fact, I think one
or two of them before him, we're also given the same job.
But essentially it's about hollowing out our spiritual
life. When I was a boy in our village,
it was a post office. There was a couple of pubs and
there was the church and the school.
Yeah. Those are the things that make
living in an English village one of the most wonderful places to
be. Yeah.
And if you take away the church, you take away the spiritual
heart. It's not, it's bad enough that
the pubs go, yeah, it's bad enough that the post office has
gone. Yeah, but you take away the
church and that's it. All you have is a collection of
houses. And I don't think people realise
that. And I Oh, no, I think people,
it's beginning to dawn on people that that's, that you need that
church in the middle of that village by the village green.
Yeah. In order for a village, a
community, to have a real heart, especially for the English
people, the Scottish people, the Welsh people, the Ulster people.
We are a Christian people. It's in the very essence of who
we are. Everything about our history and
our traditions and our customs is based upon that Christianity.
And when you get somebody like Welby, who's from that vampire
parasite class again, yeah, who? They have nothing but contempt.
Jesus Christ. I genuinely believe a great many
of them are real 100% Satanists. And I mean that when I describe
Satanists. I'm not just talking about Anton
La Vey and walking around with a pitchfork or, I don't know,
running about nude in the middle of the night and all this kind
of carrier. I'm talking about people who
genuinely believe in Satan's promise that they can become
God. Yeah.
That they can have their own will to power and they can be
their own. Their own spiritual world is all
to them. And it's all about imposing.
It's all about them having their will all the time, every time.
Yeah. And they see no reason why you
should ever do anything good unless it pleases you.
I believe these people think that they can, that they can
live forever through transhumanism, that they can
defeat God. Yeah.
That they can do what they want. And they never, ever have to
submit to a moral or ethical higher order in the transcendent
as God. You know that they never have
to. And this is the important point
I'd make about Christianity. They never have to have faith.
They never have to turn around and put their lives in God's
hands and say, all right, God, I'm, I'm beat, you know, I can't
do this. You're going to have to do this.
I'm going to rely upon my putting my future in your hands.
That's the wonder of life. That's where real life is.
These people don't want that. They never want to be grateful.
They never want to have to hand over their lives to God.
They want to be in charge all the time and they want to impose
their will upon every aspect of their life and everybody else's
life, and that is true Satanism. Very, very interesting comment
Joe, and I'd like to continue this.
Me too, Brad. So I hope that you'll come back
because there's so much to talk about both politically and
spiritually. But there's two things I'd just
like to say for we part company to the audience is that if
you're out there and our comments about Reform and UKIP
or BNP, whoever else we've mentioned, if you're feeling
that your feathers have been ruffled and that we we haven't
quite been fair, then I hope that you will come and join us
for a Part 2 about this. Because I feel the time has come
for me in particular to take the gloves off in respect to what I
actually see going on in the political party.
So that's my challenge to the audience.
If if you're finding this one is not to your taste or you're
feeling a bit upset, don't disappear.
Come back for round two and we'll see where we get to.
And the other thing I'd like to say is that if if anybody is
perhaps you know, not a not well, it is not spirit.
I'm going to deliberately use the word spiritual, but doesn't
quite understand why you job have have started a home in on
matters spiritual and Christian. Just think that in 2025, UK is a
country in which prayer is now being banned, in which a country
in which you pray and you can end up in court, you can end up
in prison. So prayer is apparently so
dangerous, it's got to be banned.
And there's a reason for this. And to understand the reason why
the government thinks that prayer is so dangerous, in my
opinion, echoes back or reflects back onto the things that you've
just been talking about, because they're frightened of prayer,
because it's the prayer which directly challenges their
spiritual, their malevolent spiritual position.
Absolutely right. I think people don't recognize
how important prayer is. I mean, I always say there's two
things that a Protestant needs. I am a Protestant.
I make a big deal about being a Protestant, right.
And the two things that our Protestant needs is King James
Bible and prayer, because prayer is the way in which we connect
with that transcendent power that is our Father in heaven.
And they don't want us to connect with our Father in
heaven. They want to keep us
unconnected. Yeah, with the transcendent,
with our Father, they don't. They want us all to be orphans
who they can abuse and beat and nobody.
And we can't have a connection with our father.
Yeah, they want us not to know our father.
They want to keep us trapped in caged and beaten down.
Yeah, but when you know your father, when you know your
father's there and he's on your side, then that gives you hope.
They don't want you to have that more than anything else in the
world. Joe, thank you very much.
So from reform to prayer, I think that's a pretty
interesting discussion in in a bit over an hour.
So I'm going to say thank you very much for joining me.
It's been a really fascinating conversation.
I've extended the invite to you, I hope.
More than happy, Brilliant. I look forward to it, Brian.
It'd be great. OK.
Thank you very much for joining me today.
Thank you, Brian. Goodbye.