Hello everyone. This is Diane Rasmussen makadi
with UK column. I'm delighted to be joined today
here with Catherine van Dome and with Dr. Liz Evans, we're going
to have a very interesting conversation today.
I believe about a variety of issues Kathryn since you're the
guest with us today. Could you please maybe introduce
yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and
why we're going to have this conversation today.
Hello. And thank you for having me on
to UK column and lovely to meet you.
Diane and and Dr. Liz Evans as well.
And I'm a stand-up comedian in recovery from very, severe Emmy
and also a podcast host, and my book is out now, and it's called
the truth about me. So, the purpose of today, is to
help save lives from anybody who is currently suffering from
this. Chronic health condition and I
campaigned through Parliament to change the nice guidelines.
And of course, and hopefully, my story will help save lives.
Thanks Kathy, and and Liz. Welcome to this discussion today
as well. I know you've been on UK column
before and so, a lot of reviewers will know, but maybe
if you would introduce yourself, and also, if you wouldn't mind
telling us a little bit about me, as, as the doctor in the
group today, Hello everyone, and thanks for having me on, and I'm
really excited to talk to Catherine, so I'm a retired
doctor. I work in complementary
medicine. Now, I'm also the CEO of the UK
medical Freedom Alliance, we campaign on medical ethics for
me. Has a really special place in my
heart because I actually suffered from it quite severe me
in my mid-20s, following a flu vaccine that I had when I was a
junior doctor. So I had two years of work and I
had to put a lot of effort into recovering and in fact, using
one of the techniques that Catherine talks about and her
book and the parent technique that was part of my recovery.
So when I heard about this, I thought I really want to talk to
Happy So, my object and catalog, my lightest which is what Emmy
stands for is, it's sort of multi-system disease, it is not
just so they also call it chronic fatigue syndrome.
This is way more than fatigue. This is You get post-exertional
malaise. So it's as Kathy said in her
book it's not what you do, it's what happens afterwards.
So people just have literally no energy, no reserves.
They might do something and then they'll be wiped out for days
afterwards. It's inflammation in your body,
it's toxicity. And I know Cathy has a really
clear knowledge of the neuroscience and the science
behind it. So I'm going to leave that to
her to explain more later on, but it is an absolutely
devastating disease. Have it affects every aspect of
your life. Is it something that affects
different people differently or do?
Every does everyone have the same symptoms or can it can it
show up differently? I mean as Kathy says, in her
book, it can affect anyone. I think it has multi causation
behind it. So different people will have
different causes. It's often got multiple causes
in one person. So lots of different things,
physical environmental, psychological emotional, lots of
stresses on their body over time, break down their health.
And then they can often be just a final sort of Tipping Point.
In my case, it was the flu vaccine but I don't think on its
own that caused it. It was lots of things over many
years that had undermined my health.
So and this is why Western medicine really struggles with
me because we're, we have quite a reductionist view, like one
thing. And one illness must be caused
by one thing. And that's just not the case
with any different. People will have different toxic
exposures or traumas or whatever it is that will cause their
system basically to break down. Yeah, that's really interesting
Kathy. I would like to hear you speak
about this because we've spoke about this previously and I know
it's in your book if you could explain the moment when your
life changed Yes, thank you. Dr. Liz and also Diane yes, I
just in 2414. And I was bed bound so I
suddenly collapsed forward off the front of my settee blacked
out and after that, my life changed forever.
And so I literally just been running a children's theater
school by day and I was also at the top Jessie.
J tribute artist. So I was literally in big
stilettos, jumping off the front of the stage, highly energetic,
singer dancer, actor and stand-up comedian as well.
And suddenly literally collapsed and blacked out, that's a very
faded memory. And my second chapter in my book
highlights, the terrible sort of tragedy of this and how I had to
crawl to my bed, which took hours to get up stairs, because
I believed I was going to die. And after that, I couldn't even
turn my head on a pillow. So, just an incredible switch
overnight for me sometimes, it's gradual.
But for me, it just suddenly happened.
And, and for me personally, to have been, so physically active
and able to paint all of my house and I was somebody who
never rested, never sat still, I was a workaholic and exercise a
holic with three businesses and I was also very, very happy and
excitable. So there was no way that I had
anxiety or depression. And what happened to me, I hope
being one of the most severely affected patients, ever in
history. To survive is the reason I
wanted to share my story when I felt that I would be in a
position to share it, which is now.
And so it's taking me eight years to write the book and just
like Dr. Liz has just explained every single patient is
different. So I had a broken flu fight and
Pitting carbon monoxide and hanging off the wall, in my
kitchen which we then found had been illegally fitted by a non
gas safe registered plumber. I thought that was the cause.
As I broke down all the possible, causations in all the
years that I was in bed, and what I found out was actually it
was multiple causal, which is exactly what Dr. Liz's explained
and every patient been different.
What I do in my book is I take the reader right back to birth,
where I was a fast breech birth. And my mum had to ring a special
Bell because the delivery was unusual, a typical.
And I was only about five pounds when I was born and apparently,
according to Dr. Perrin who is the neuroscientist and osteopath
who was saved my life, he explains and with the science,
and I put this in the book, as well for any scientists and
doctors to observe. He explained very succinctly
that in his belief in his PhD, in the field of enemy in his
almost 40 years of expertise in the particular health condition
with peer reviewed studies and clinical trials.
And he has Need to diagnosis and he also has and he's working in
tandem with hospitals and and different people to bring this
into the foreground. So that people understand that
what precipitates every single patient case.
With this condition, he believes is a structural abnormality of
the spine and school. It has to be both which then
causes issues with the neck alignment and which we now know
affects the vagus nerve which I'm sure Dr. Liz will be able to
explain more succinctly. Stops a parent is has been like
revolutionary in how he has changed the understanding of
any. And it was really interesting,
actually reading Cathy's books because from a medical
perspective, she has laid out her life in really fine detail
from birth. And you can then see in it all
of the multiple physical and environmental and psychological
factors that over the years and decades gradually undermined her
health to bring her to the point of complete collapse.
But in terms of, in terms of the physical structure, so he has
he's identified that every person pretty much where they're
me that he's examined. Has got some sort of structural
abnormality in, either their head, or their spine, which is
in teasing that the normal natural physiological flow of
the fluid from the brain to help the brain to drain from Top.
Sense, or the spinal cord to drain from toxins.
And, and somehow, these these structural abnormalities will,
they will impact their for all of the nervous functions.
So, your autonomic nervous system, your fight flight system
which is your sympathetic nervous system or your
parasympathetic nervous system, which is the part of your
nervous system that can heal and reflect a repair and help you to
sleep. So when those are all out of
kilter, you start to kind of you start to lose your health.
And then there's this build-up of toxins which he then
identifies sort of subsequently initially.
He thought it was just about the nervous system but then,
Recognize that instead of the brain, this system draining
toxins from the system and expelling them, as it should do,
it was that she sending it the wrong way.
So people start to get this topic build up in their brain,
which causes obviously affects across all of their systems in
their body. So, for example, happy when she
was being exposed to carbon monoxide, she could over many
years, she couldnt get rid of that and the toxicity was
building up and building up and she had an issues with paint
fumes that she was being exposed to.
So, So, you've become hyper toxic and sort of being poisoned
slowly, and that will affect every, every system of your
body. I think that's probably
explained it. I see would you agree?
Yes, thank you Dr. Liz and thank you for highlighting the science
behind it because and I wanted to explain to Medical Doctors
and scientists. Obviously, I'm not a scientist
or a doctor and but I have had my brain drained and body of
poison with Dr. Perrin for eight years nonstop, every single
week. So, because of the toxicity
level, whenever he did, the basic Herring technique
detoxification, most people would just walk out.
Perhaps, go back to work and the more severe cases might feel
sleepy, but in my case, and I looked like Steve Martin in The
Little Shop of Horrors. I would sometimes really laugh
loudly as all this poison was coming out and my legs would
collapse, and I would literally need to be carried back to the
car and then driven back home. So the detoxification has to be
done. So gradually.
With somebody as severely affected as myself.
Now, I also have secondary, fibromyalgia and Elliston loss
syndrome. It's important to say and they
can absolutely be a combination and go in tandem.
So if the structural issues, if the structural alignment of the
body and don't forget, I was a ballerina.
And so my hypermobility, my hypermobile joints, was
fantastic for a career. In a magic box, for example,
with a magician, but terrible for longevity of life and you're
absolutely right Dr. Perrin specialist area is the glimp
attic system, which is the drainage of the brain, if that
is compromised, because the spine and school are misaligned.
And in Elliston loss, of course, my rib cage.
We think on one side is slightly pushed forwards, and my joints
dislocate easily. So my net would pop out of line.
Just just as Link or two years ago.
My hip popped out. You can imagine the pain level,
but I would just bite my mouth. I would be carried to Dr. Perry
and because he's an osteopath and a neuroscientist.
He said it needed to be somebody with both of those skill sets in
the past 100 years to have merged together and worked out
why this condition occurs. So obviously, as you explain,
there's not enough fluid, we have inefficient drainage of the
neuro lymphatic system which causes a backflow and a dual
flow with toxins and because they can't go through the spine
properly. For example, I have a flat upper
thoracic spine, so where is a healthy spine?
Would be like this. A flat upper thoracic is
inverted. Then I've also got the rib cage
at the front, which is compressed because I've got
Ellis Dan lost syndrome. So as a professional singer, you
can imagine how difficult it was.
To to breathe. So I was therefore upper
respiratory breathing because I'm qualified in singing, of
course and drama school. And so I was always mouth
breathing, which is very common in Emmy as well, where you're
literally taking gasps for air and you can't sleep properly
because your entire system is in Reverse.
So you then crash by day and you can't sleep at night, so that's
the wire, but tired. But I do want to get across.
That is much as emotional psychological components occur.
What I wanted to know was why somebody else with the same
psychological components. And of course, every human being
has got some sort of emotional psychological process that we
are human. Why somebody else with the same
issue didn't claps and what doctor in his highlighted is
that those issues often come to the Forefront because the hypo
Must part of the brain and controls emotion sound light and
that's why all of these components become defective in
me. And the base ganglia behind
there is acts as a junction box and he explains that the base of
ganglia controls movement. So if you have toxins in the
hypothalamus, the help, the thalamus and the basal ganglia,
then you are going to be like me, you're going to be
collapsing, all over the place looking like you're drunk, even
though you don't drink. So that's what he has
recognized. That it's the structural issues
that precipitate in nearly 40 Years of his research, as well
as Hands-On practical work. And every single patient has
structural issues. So what he does is he pops the
spine in my case, my jaw was misaligned from birth being a
fast breech birth. If you come out of the birthing
Canal too quickly and which is quite common, first births are
vulnerable because they get all the toxins from their mother and
breech births. I was breech and came out
bottom, first and scared the Midwife.
And so basically, if you have any of these and four sets for
some bonus births all vulnerable, now you would have
to have a spine and Cranium together.
So people who have issues with the just the spine may not
subsequently, get me. So that's really, really
important because it's to do with the alignment of the neck.
Now, if you've got Ellis Dan lost, you've got a very
hypermobile neck. So it's amazing for being a
ballerina and at one point, I was working professionally with
a professional Ballet Company, the Lewis London ballet.
So it's it's fantastic for the Arts hypermobility, fantastic
circus acts and these are the people Sports athletes
entertainers, anybody that is highly active highly physical.
We are the children and adults that sadly often end up with
these conditions football weight training because I was carrying
heavy PA speakers every night to my gigs.
So I was twisting the spine, just picking up these heavy
speakers in six inch Stilettos, I now wear Vivo Barefoot and I
don't walk around in the heels of that level and I have taken
full control of every aspect of my health from my diet to
meditation, to rest, and relaxation and I have followed
Dr. Perkins advice to the letter, And I did in the early
stages thing. I know best.
I'll just do a little bit more than what he's advising me to do
and actually you can't be there me, the more you push through,
which is how we are used to being and you yourself.
Doctor had been through this yourself.
The more we push the worst. We feel you have got it.
Almost give up. Given, but not give up.
I say so, given to it rest as much as you possibly can.
And in my case 11, lost years. But, you know, the great thing
about Dr. Perry is, he can give early diagnostic, so if people
can find Doctor permit, talking young children, many of whom are
approaching me today online, wanting advice little children
that are suddenly collapsing and bed bound, and they don't know
why they were once dancers or singers, and now they can't
move. So, my heart is to reach out to
the whole Community. Brilliant know.
That was really, that's a really good summary of what all the
aspects around me. Because I think it is that type
paper personality. It's the obviously the trauma
that's happened to your body at some point.
And then you've got the toxic exposures often, I saw you in
your background, you'd have lots of antibiotics, lots of
vaccines, you know. So all these different things
that Then your body cannot deal with it.
And there was some emotional trauma, but as you say, plenty
of people don't collapse with me.
And it seems that this structural abnormality is the
key that Raymond Perrin has unlocked.
Now you mentioned because there was you slightly alluded to
this. The sense that we there's been a
story hasn't there in the mainstream medical world that
this is psychological. And Emmy patients have not only
over decades had to deal with this catastrophic illness.
I mean, that leaves you unable to work issue.
Unable to just do normal daily functions or to enjoy life or
just to do and yet you look on the surface, fairly normal.
So it's been very easy for doctors to say, well, there's
nothing wrong with you and of course they do their tests and
nothing shows up. And I wonder like, at the point
where you met Raymond parents? I think in your book, it really
came across how important is to be believed because you'll see
how your partner who had their me.
So he, he was affirming that you have any and your best friend, I
think was very supportive about what the name, Sarah Flanagan,
but beyond that, you're often met with disbelief or this idea
that, oh, this is in your head, or are you depressed?
So talk a bit about like this how it felt when you have a
medical professional Raymond parent.
Actually a to you that there is something seriously physically
wrong with you and that he could understand, you know what was
going on. This was physical.
Thank you, Dr. I think that's a really, really great question.
And for me, personally, for my own GP, if you like to be just
following the modality of the current system or the previous
system prior to 2021. Because now, of course, any is a
physical condition. And the nice guidelines have
been changed, which was my campaign through Parliament and
many others alongside of me. But what's really important that
I want to share is that when people look at the emotional and
the psychological aspects, those parts of the brain, which we
discussed early the hypothalamus and they control emotions.
So, drone explains succinctly that.
If you get toxins in the hypothalamus part of the brain
then, and they cannot release, you've got new road toxins
building up a high level of new road toxins, which is what is
Created from emotional stress and he says, it's not Just and
stress from running businesses, or is your self as a doctor, a
high achieving stress. It's also stress from adrenaline
and excitement. So that's really interesting to
share, because I was very excited my whole life, and I was
a very happy person. So that's so important to share
and that's why I have in my book.
Lots and lots of people who have worked alongside me in the
industry in entertainment, all of a and quantifying that Kathy
was always laughing and always happy.
So and you know the stress of course was going on stage and
the adrenaline addiction, if you like always trying to be perfect
racing around running around. So stress isn't just depression
or anxiety quite the opposite but most important.
It's the new road toxic buildup that stress builds and the
majority of patients only have stress And as their secondary
issue to the spine and and Cranium issues.
So the majority of patients do have emotional toxicity, but
there's always a structural issue precipitating that.
Yeah. And I thought it was interesting
because you've said it was a sudden collapse, but actually
reading your book, your health was not in a great way for all
through your 20s. I know you said at the age of 20
you had no time to eat drink sleep or rest but you had
multiple symptoms which were escalating all the time in
disparity you were kept collapsing and I was reading
this book thinking how you know do you look back and wonder how
on Earth you manage to keep going?
For another 20 years at the pace that you lived your life?
I mean I think it really brings out your incredible drive into
determination. You said The Show Must Go On no
matter what and you somehow kept going even when your you have
health challenges, you know, from your team's onwards.
So do you look back now? And just think how did I get
through to 309, you know, how did my body not break early?
Yeah, good, great question. I, yeah, well, I had healthy.
Use at doctor from the day. I was born, my nana saved, my
life rolled me across the floor. Lily higginson, she saved my
life as a tiny baby and I turned blue and she stuck my head under
a cold tap and I was only months old.
So I take the reader right back to the beginning because I think
that's so so important. So that I would have been a cot
death and once again that opens up the question of why, so I
asked the reader to have a look at everything that happened.
My mother said that in 1976 specially living in the North in
Lancashire. We were one of very few people
to get a telephone landline at fitted in 1976 because we kept
having to be you know, red lighted to hospital.
All through my, you know, baby and young young years basically.
So I was constantly sick my whole life. 25 years of
tonsillitis, every three weeks at University to the point where
the doctor said, just leave the tablets on the front.
If somebody Call Kathy Rings, just give them the medicine.
So the point is and I, I feel and in my journey that I am
looking, I, as you said, I am so lucky to be alive and finding
the balance is key, and, but understanding exactly why this
happens. So I obviously and Dr. Perry's
view had undiagnosed enemy with the Jaw misalignment from birth.
I was then diagnosed with vestibular damage, which is in a
rear damage, which I still have today.
So, and these are the things that can happen, a secondary
issues and when the brain isn't draining fluid properly and
efficiently. So as soon as Dr, Perrin is an
osteopath realigned my jaw. I said it feels like a tap has
been turned on in the top of my head.
And he said, only the most severe cases can actually feel
the fluid draining through the brain, and through the ears.
And so, same thing happened in my spine.
When he cracked the spine, suddenly felt like a waterfall.
Going up the spine. Isn't that incredible?
And only the people that have experienced?
It would be able to share that understanding because most of us
most healthy people can't feel it and but I am, I want to also
share, I feel very, very lucky to be alive.
I do, and that's so important to share.
Because some people, many people actually have suffered me
sometimes from young child to, they've had some times 40 years
in bed, in the state that I was in unable to move.
I had two years in and out of bed.
Every time I crawled or went anywhere, I would crash and so
it was a constant Pushing crashing, pushing and crashing.
And then in she said, early in 2016 I met Everybody's hero,
which is Dr. Raymond Perrin. And he sat opposite me and he
said, I believe you. And that as you said, that was
all I needed because very, very few people.
As you say had believed me my partner, Mark Singleton and he
he was the opposite of my personality.
In terms of he was into Thai cheese, a Tai Chi instructor.
He's a Healer, he is into meditation and he helped, he
helped me to learn these modalities in my healing.
So, it's again, two different people.
One with big muscles, a man and one petite little lady.
How have we both got the same condition if we physically look
different and the combining and finding from Dr. Perry is that
we both have a flat upper thoracic spine.
So when we were both weight training in the gym, for
example, and before our paths came together and we were both
pushing beyond the boundaries and as you quite rightly
highlighted at the beginning, there's over 100,000 toxins.
So no two Patients could possibly be the same.
So somebody who is exposed to carbon monoxide and paint fumes
because if you stood still long enough at a painted yet, I was
somebody that painted my entire home and it's quite large and
all the garden fences. So I didn't know that in itself
is highly toxic now to a healthy person.
Of course they can drain those toxins out.
They might get a bit woozy after exposure to paint but eventually
the body will drain it in my case as you read at the end I
said the detoxification was like Mary Poppins handbag, there was
so much poison to come out. I was expecting a lampshade to
come out there. It was just an incredible detox
and eight years every single week of having my brain drained
is Testament to my belief system in this treatment.
Now, I do want to highlight that I did all so Implement and
strong diet strategies and Including work from Dr. Sarah
myhill. Who is wonderful.
She's coming on my podcast soon and in the next series that's
about to be released. And she highlights the
importance of gluten-free sugar-free dairy-free and also,
no alcohol. I mean, I interestingly, I
couldn't drink alcohol and neither could marry without
getting sick and Dr. Perry explains the nme, The nmda
receptors in the brain are already fast firing.
So if you then put alcohol into the system, you are then
creating an even bigger torrent of the fight or flight and
system and the sympathetic nervous system controls the
lymphatic system. So the lymphatic system is then
triggered by stress or alcohol or excitement or chemicals.
So that is why. And if the lymph is draining
that was in forwards constantly and Then that means everything
is swooshing upwards and down including blood, would you
believe in women? So that is why often blood flow
goes up and sometimes doctor in said into the Longs and you can
get clotting, which is what I had.
Which is, which means that anything sticky that I eat such
as fruit sticks inside, and the cyst in my left kidney, would,
you believe has completely gone? Thanks to the drainage mechanism
now, working more efficiently. Brilliant.
And I, what I want to move on to your campaigning because you,
you know, despite the fact that I know you haven't fully
recovered yet, but you've become a real Warrior for me, you've
become an ambassador and I know you've got, you've managed to
get Raymond parent on board and together.
You've managed to implement some massive changes.
Not least the changing of the nice guidelines.
You want to just talk a little bit about that sort of
campaigning you've done and how you've been lobbying MPS and
what you were aiming to do and what you're aiming to achieve
and what you have achieved Thank you for that and lovely analogy
there. I basically in 2016 as soon as I
found Dr. Perrin I said you make sense, I mean, I couldn't speak
properly. I was flopped over a wheelchair
dribbling, but I thought I was saying, you make perfect sense,
and he remembers it better than I do, because it was a very
difficult time. But basically straight after
that, I was straight on the phone to my mp.
And, and I wrote emails, I think every single day or most.
So, my mp was Sir, Ben Wallace, who was the looking after
Lancashire? Which was the ex-defense
minister, he came straight to my home.
I have to say because I couldn't go to his and local and cabinet.
I went straight, he came straight to my house in
Lancashire and he believed me. So he was one of the first
people and he said you're you're the first constituent of mine to
Broach this subject and and with their me to be such a big
campaigner and I said, if a man at the time for nearly 30 years
has been treating and diagnosing This condition with success.
It makes perfect sense that Dr. Raymond Perry knows what he's
talking about because and that would make sense to me.
So I couldn't understand why his work wasn't already in the nice
guidelines. What I then unpacked was in
2010, the Emmy Association published an article which I put
in my book as well. That said that a patient survey
showed that in the Emmy association association website
under Dr. Charles Shepard and first that was the most
beneficial to Patient recovery. First was rest then pacing and
third was Dr. Raymond Herrin, that's third in a long list of
strategies and approaches to health and healing.
So that is really, really profound.
And so, I'm hoping that the Emmy Association can reflect on that
and hopefully bring Dr. Perry into their work ahead as well.
And there's a lot of any groups out there that we want to get
involved so that so that we saved lives because that's my
mission. I knew that it was the most
chronic pain to be in to collapse.
As I did. It felt like I've been set on
fire and crushed with a concrete slab.
No human being should ever suffer for years, in that level
of pain. And, and I believe.
Now, that with my mission, as you said, to campaign through
Parliament, I wanted to get it very clear, which is why I've
told my story that I was not a lazy housewife, because I'm not
married and I was not sure I did everything myself to the point
of, you know, now I am learning to, you know, to give other
people to do because I can't do them now.
But I was somebody who was very self-sufficient, like you say
Taipei like yourself, but but Mr. Wallace, I have to say and
Zoe dominant. Who was his PA?
They were by my side throughout with my mission and I went with
Dr. Perrin to Parliament Against drones advice because I
collapsed on the steps. Just after our media.
Photograph, I literally collapsed on the steps next to
Mr. Wallace and he could see first hand that all the effort
had just getting on a train. That's all I did.
And pause me. When I got home, I had to be
carried off the train, which mark single to my partner?
Carried me off and I actually was rushed in an ambulance
straight to hospital. So this just from getting on a
train, but I knew that my mission would be worth it and
after that the suffering as we've described it's not what
you do. It's what happens after.
But Mr. Wallace gave us two hours and this time it's
normally won and and Zoe Dom was present as well, but because
there's a lot of electricity light sound and high stimuli,
which I'm I suffer with, in particular, in the Parliament
building It didn't take long for my arm to shake as still happens
today and then my legs buckled. So, and obviously between Mr.
Wallace, I had one on linked on each Dr. Perry and Mr. Wallace
and they dragged me out of out of the front very respectfully
and and that's that's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to show I thought if he sees this and what actually
happens and he sees a very positive human being who loves
dancing and singing and I can't wait to get my career back.
I that's been my oxygen, you know, so I love working and and
being active. And of course, all those things
were taken from me for 11 years. And so, I hope and I hope to my
mission that I could prove. This is not psychosomatic in any
way, shape, or form. I'm not anxious.
And the week before I collapsed on, I was doing a stand-up
comedy show in the army barracks and I jumped off the front of
the stage and then I also was not depressed.
I was Extremely happy and excitable and Mr. Wallace, I
have to say supported me as did Zoe Thomas throughout my mission
and in 2021, in fact, three months after we went to
Parliament and The nice guidelines with then discussed
and Mr. Wallace sent some documentation, including all of
my emails to the health Minister and other MPS as well who had
reached out to and the nice guidelines were then on the
market for being changed and of course as we know in 2021 they
were changed and I felt oh it was the best sort of outcome in
medical history For What 100 years, many people before me
campaigning as well. And alongside me of course I did
not do this. All on my own not by any stretch
of the imagination and but Dr. Perring got to tell Mr. Wallace
all about his work and and we hoped that Dr. Perry's day to
Diagnostic and which was Mr. Wallace's Mission as well.
We hoped that that would end up on the guidelines and we're
still hoping that today. But that was a massive
achievement. And so well done for that on
behalf of a whole enemy community.
And I just want to bring in Diane, and I'm sure you've got
lots of questions. I guess I would like to as well.
You some of this time To address the larger broader picture of
chronic illness. Chronic conditions as someone
who as far as I know to, I don't have any.
But but I have, for example, I've had endometriosis for,
well, you know, for most of my life I was, I wasn't diagnosed
until I was 21 and but I was six since I was 12 and I, I've, you
know, found that sort of Western medicine has not been an answer
in a lot of cases for me. It's made things worse, rather
than made things better. I've, you know, tried different
types of alternative medicine of tried acupuncture.
I currently see an osteopath. I've tried.
Massages of tried, a lot of different things Energy
Medicine, which I practice myself, but I, I guess there's a
lot of people out there. And I know that a lot of our
viewers that UK column have their own health conditions, or
have friends or family members that they care about who do have
health conditions and and of course, there's The vaccine
injured who are dealing with a range of issues right now.
So, I'm just wondering if you could have a little bit of
discussion for awareness, for A different kinds of things that
that we all different people deal with.
And I think you know, speaking from a personal perspective,
it's difficult when you have what sometimes called, you know,
unseen conditions, if that's kind of a where it's kind of
unusual word, but it's sort of like we have things going on
inside of ourselves that nobody sees.
And so, they expect us to be like, oh, I think we mentioned
that earlier, sort of like, oh, you look fine.
So, what's wrong with you? Why can't you show up to work?
Can do everything, like you're supposed to do?
What's your problem? And then they, they think it's
on your head, because it's not visible.
So I'm just wondering, you know, I'm I'm really interested in the
vaccine injury issue and also the possibility of what people
are labeling as long covid. If that might be something that
is you know whether it can be classified as in either or some
other sort of ongoing condition. So I'd be interested to hear
from from both of you. If we can maybe brought this
discussion out a bit more just to help as many people as
possible. So not just those with me.
But those who are living with, lots of things that are very
debilitating list, you have any thoughts on that?
With my experience of me as soon as there was covid and then
people were talking about long covid.
To me it. What they were describing was me
and chronic fatigue syndrome, post viral syndrome, this is,
you know, a classic trigger for me so and it's in a sense, it's
a bit of a shame. It's been labeled something
different because actually I think, you know it finally the
world woke up to post viral syndromes with long covid but
then the people with me were weren't being sorted.
They've been ignored for years and years and then suddenly the
long covid. People get, you know, clinics is
specialty. But actually they have, you
know, we need to bring this together because it's all part
of the same syndrome and probably the same approaches,
you know, and having Research into the into long covid or from
me, you can bring it all together to help everybody.
So I don't know what Kathy's thought is on that.
But I And again, then with the vaccine injury, I think that's
causing us, similar sort of catastrophic.
And multi-systemic inflammatory toxic illness.
So I think all of these things are linked and just because
they've got different triggers. Doesn't mean they're not, you
know, under the same umbrella. Would you agree Cathy.
Yes, thank you. Dr. Liz, I I do wholeheartedly
agree. In fact, Dr. Perrin's second
book, and is about long covid and post vaccine syndrome.
So, he's the expert on this, but he does call it and the me
Community, call it long covid, forward slash me, which is quite
interesting and because like yourself as soon as I saw people
suddenly collapsing in 2020, I was then ringing people from the
BBC or anybody that I saw collapse because I was obviously
still in bed and I continued back campaign and I'd say you
look like me you've got what I've got you know.
So it was very hard for me to unpack that this was and
obviously something potentially different and what we've
overlapping symptoms I think that's so important.
It doesn't really matter what the disease name is to me, what
matters and what always mattered was how to save lives.
So if we have as And very beautifully expressed if we have
other underlying health conditions, then, perhaps.
Dr. Raymond perrin's treatment and alongside a health diet and
other healing modalities, and would also be beneficial to
everybody, which I wouldn't doubt.
And, and that's so important, obviously, that's me.
And now, long covid and post vaccine syndrome are his
specialist areas and fibromyalgia of course.
But but what's important is could other people benefit and
and I believe wholeheartedly that they absolutely could.
So very often and just to reflect with Diane there very
often. If we for example have a spine
misalignment, we might lean to one side for example and you
know, when you stood in a bank or something and you suddenly
aware that you're leaning to one side.
Something I used to do and what Dr. Perry does he see rest.
Is the alignment of the spine. So I sit more straight now.
I was very much leaning to one side because there was a
misalignment there. So wouldn't that be interesting
that if we could perhaps and this was something I wanted to
campaign through Parliament about maybe we could do tests on
children. Like I had in school and but
have a look for pre diagnostic signs in Children of these
structural issues which were evident when I shared my own
story. You know, when I was told to
touch my toes and I could get my elbows onto the floor.
So these are the things that are very, very important and you're
right. Endometriosis is often a
secondary symptom of Emmy. And again, if doctor parents
explanation of the blood flow pumping backwards under high
stress or a structural issue, compressing and not allowing the
drainage mechanism to work succinctly and Demetrios is also
potentially blood flow. That's coming upwards.
And potentially into different parts of the body.
And so, that's really important to highlight as well.
So, yeah, there's lots and lots of different symptoms that
overlap and in the past Emmy was called once called Yuppie flu.
And my mum said, well, it didn't come to Lancashire because we're
not Posh enough. So so I would assume that Emmy,
which is inflammation of the brain and spinal cord.
It has to be both. So it's my allergic and keffala
my lightest and in your worst state of this condition.
I say, if you can say it, you've not got it.
So fancy giving people that can't speak a disease, call, my
algae can care for my life. So so, yeah, it's probably
better to say. I've got anxiety, you can say
that. And, but most important is to
educate people that absolutely first of all, like a tree.
If we see our body like a tree, if the structure in any way,
shape, or form is misaligned from a Blow To The Head, a car
crash. So I have, I was punched on the
way to school when I was 13 for no reason, it was somebody who
didn't know me an easy target, because I was petite.
So she just punched my friend. And the next day, punch me on
the nose and broke my nose. I didn't know it was broken, but
it did shattered blood all over her.
So it was pretty obvious, but I didn't know my whole life.
So I then went through my whole life with a misaligned jaw, a
broken nose and mouth breathing, because I was hyperventilating
not enough oxygen. Then obviously, you know, as
you've just said all the medication for all these
different symptomology. And it's important to share
today. A lot of people ask me this,
what's the significance of the neck and recurrent tonsillitis,
which is what I got. And the significance is that the
main lymph nodes, the main body, the largest amount of lymph
nodes are in the neck. And I have that Quantified with
Dr. Perrin in America last last week just to make sure that I
shared that correctly. So your main body of lymph nodes
is in the neck area. Hence, why?
If your drainage isn't working, you're going to get recurrent
tonsillitis. I have never had tonsillitis
since drones treatment. I've never had a common cold in
a pandemic, I have never and because I had a succession of
flu-like symptoms from the day. I started Dr. Perrin's
treatment, and actually my whole life.
I was constantly, you know, the nasal drip, and constantly sick.
And and I actually went blind twice in my recovery and my
sound, I had to have blackout curtains and ear Defenders.
And it was so cute that it was just on livable and unbearable.
And I had what I call like explosions in my head where I
would jolt awake and things. So there was obviously it seems
the drainage of the brain when it isn't flowing.
Are properly and it's back flowing in the school as well as
the spine and all over. Obviously, you're going to get
all of these very interesting symptoms.
Also, it's important to say if you cry a lot, brilliant.
Because that means your drainage mechanism is working.
I, when I cried it, would burn my eyes and we now know that it
was so many chemicals that were coming from the eyes.
Dr. Perry explains that the drainage of the brain, the
Glimpse system goes down. The school has the eyes, down
the nose through the ears and down the throat.
And so obviously, if that is misaligned by the neck, as we
said, or any structural issues, the drainage mechanism isn't
going to be excreting those toxins efficiently.
I just want to throw some different ideas out there
because these are things that viewers will be aware of who
watch GK column frequently. Is that if you watch for
example, Dr. Sam Bailey's interview that she did with
Charles Mallett recently, on the idea of viruses and whether or
not a virus is actually a virus in the way that most people
think of it. That there might just be a
detoxing process happening that you don't.
And this kind of what you said, Catherine without being a
scientist or knowing the details behind it, the science behind
it, the way Dr. Sam Bailey does, is that I'm wondering if there
is more to that, that we need to learn how to understand that.
A virus is not something that goes from person to person.
It is something that your body can have things in it.
That needs to get rid of, and then you have the symptoms and
you feel bad. But if you're saying that your
brain got drained, if that's the right way to say it and, and
you're no longer having sore, throats are no longer having
runny noses. It may be, it is actually a
detox process and not a so-called virus during a so
called pandemic, which a lot of you can't call them viewers, do
question whether or not that was really a thing.
So I just wanted to throw that out there that you kind of
confirmed that the way that I tend to believe is that there
was no virus in 2020 and that we were, we do have to find other
ways to keep ourselves healthy. Because there are different
things that cause what happens to us, when we don't feel any of
recovery, sort of having been a conventional medic, who took,
you know, multiple antibiotics. Multiple vaccines over vaccine
triggered. My my and I very quickly
realized that there was nothing Western medicine, could offer me
to get better and I was not prepared at the age of 20 526
from my life to be over. I wanted to be able to work
again, to be able to play sports again to be able to have a
family. You know, I've got four children
now which I'm very blessed to have.
So I realized you need a paradigm shift.
You've got to stop looking at symptoms because symptoms are
usually actually your body's attempt to get better, so we and
we shouldn't be at war with our symptoms.
I think often Western medicines, Caesar says, walk at war, with
our own bodies at war with our own immune systems, you know,
autoimmunity your body's not working properly, but actually,
if you get below that and actually really go down to root
causes and and recognize that given the right ingredients, so
that the nutrition that's going in the right environment.
So taking away the toxins from your environment and distresses
which are causing disease. And and just, you know, any a
lot, you know, structural you know, malignant correcting those
basically getting your body, you know, from a holistic
perspective as optimal as possible, you know, if you have
had cycle called terrible traumas, then deal with that as
well because we are, you know, Mind Body Soul, we're all kind
of together then actually, our body has an incredible ability
to heal and repair and that's what we can allow to happen.
So, you know, I now treat people with all sorts of chronic
diseases including me, but I never say that I'm getting them
better. I help their body.
Heal itself and that's what we've got.
Its a total so I'm then not treating an illness.
So people will get, you know, come to me and say, oh, can you
treat celiac disease or can you treat me?
And I'm like, I'm not treating an illness.
I'm treating your body and all the things in your body that are
suboptimal at the moment and once we can correct them all.
Then your body will be able to do the thing.
It was designed to do which is to heal and repair.
And so I think, you know, so what you say about viruses Yeah,
I mean we certainly have respiratory illnesses that
appear to spread, but you know, I quite like doctors Zach.
Bush's idea that these are actually our bodies adapting to
toxic environments or responding to toxins and they can make us
sick. And sometimes it the adaption
can actually kill you, but it's not that you're being attacked
from outside. It's actually something in your
body that having to be try to be healed.
So, yeah, I think often we get, you know, when, when you have a
fever, Um, that is actually going to, you know, deal with
whatever you're being infected by, for example.
So the worst thing you can do is take a paracetamol to reduce
your fever. I always say it's like you
wouldn't send your children into a boxing ring without gloves on
or with their hands tied behind their backs, which is
effectively the minute, you lower a fever, you've removed
the body's ability to fight infection.
So all of these things we see the wrong, we attack the wrong
things, we try to correct the wrong things but don't see
what's driving it. And actually a recognized that
it's, you know, if we can make the soil right then the germ is
kind of immaterial. Yeah, I think that's really
important. What you've just shared as well
because the most important thing is that the lymphatic system
which is congested and you know running backwards and forwards
in me patience and fibro patients and That is detoxifying
large top sins. That's what Dr. Perry has
highlighted for me to share today.
That the lymph and lymphatic system.
His specialist area is the drainage of the brain.
Now he predicted in 1995 96 in his PhD thesis, that was a
glimpy system because there was one in dogs and monkeys and
rats. So he said there has to be one
in the human brain. So this for me was the the one
connecting factor, that brought the whole Community together,
the glimp system, the inefficient drainage of the
brain and and that particular area, he said the lymphatic
system is responsible and if I've got this right for removing
50% of toxins they remove large molecules.
So he explains that the blood removes small molecules.
So if the lymph is congested, eventually you get what's called
varicose limp. Which you can have a look at
your own body. So men and women can get
varicose limp. So, in my case, it was at the
top of my thighs and all. So, under my armpits and it
looks like varicose veins, which are blue, but they are actually
white and if your lymph becomes so congested and then you put
more and toxins into the body to have to perhaps kill said,
infection or whatever, the modality has been, then you are
building the body with more and more toxicity that it is unable
to detoxify efficiently. And you've got to get the
system. Drowning said, pumping the right
way. So standard of opacity standard
osteopathy is not beneficial to me because with Dr. Perry's
parents technique. The majority of the lymph is in
the breast tissue and in men and women, of course and the sides
of the spine which is the upper back.
So the breast tissue, the upper back and the tummy are the main
areas of lymphatic drainage that's the main areas of where
the large molecules are being removed.
Hence why we all have IBS symptoms because they build up
and then they congest. And if they are not all
detoxifying efficiently, then of course you're going to get a
buildup of these toxins which where are they going to go?
They're going to pump backwards, and they're going to go in a
circle. And when you do the parent
technique often, as he's pumping the system, the toxins still
have to go in a circle. So halfway through one of the
treatments. When I got home, the toxins were
coming past my eyes and of course I lost my sight because
the top sins are travelling past the eyes which could explain why
we can't see you know. And if They go into the ears.
It could explain why we can't hear because my hearing was like
hyperacusis. So my sound was affected because
of the tops in stuck, inside the inner ear drum.
And I was also, don't forget on stage, I find a lot of
entertainers working under high levels of electricity are really
suffering, because imagine an electric current constantly on
stage, going through your brain. And, you know, that's not going
to be healthy for anybody to have that level of sound Kathy.
This is sounded really interesting but of course Dr.
Perrin is only one man and and you get him what so we can serve
us have never seen him one time. So is there another way or other
options that we have to receive the treatments that he offers or
to at least learn about them? Absolutely Dr. Perrin also has
his own book called the parent technique by Dr. Raymond Perron,
and, of course, the second book, which is long covid for people
who have been diagnosed with that and basically he has
pairing practitioners all over the world.
That's really important. In fact, he is invited to guest
speak at the world me conference in America.
So very, very few people. Diane are actually invited to
guests to speak. There's lots of people in the
audience but because of his incredible specialist area, the
drainage of the brain, he's actually a guest speaker and he
is currently now traveling all over the world training up her
in practitioners. So if you are an osteopath
adopter chiropractor or somebody that can do cranial sacral
therapy, you have to have the cranial sacral therapy to be
able to do this and then you can actually Me and get in touch
with Dr. Perry in which is on the website.
The parent technique website from anywhere all over the world
and all of my campaigning on socials, there was a lady from
Washington with MV. And after eight years of
following me, God bless her. She flew all the way to England
to meet Dr. Perrin in person and shake his hand and she has then
Paid It Forward by returning to Washington and helping a local
osteopath to set up a clinic there.
So every time we help somebody they then go on to pay forward
and help somebody else, and that's what life should be about
and I hope that, you know, this can continue with wonderful
people like yourself here as well, and yes.
So if anybody wants to access her in technique, the details
are in my book as well. And you can buy his book that
will explain the science behind it as well.
And he very kindly said that he liked my book and it was very
laugh out loud. So I don't want people to think
it's just a medical book. Is although it's got science and
Medic in part. It is my life story.
My funny, I hope life story on stage and with the Ronnie Scott
Orchestra Phil cool. Frank Skinner, all the different
people that I work with, in my career and hopefully, makes you
laugh and the brilliant stand-up comedian, Steve Royal has
endorsed, very kindly, the front of my book and he said, what an
amazing story. This shouldn't be laugh out loud
but somehow it is so you can access Dr. Perry has a say who
the website or through the clinic itself.
If you Google the parent Clinic, which is impressed which near
Manchester and also, he has practitioners UK wide and ready
locally to you that you can access.
And there's a big website connection, and he's just said
to me in New York last week. That is everywhere now.
And Mary, Curry is Now setting up his clinics which is just
incredible. So I hope that helps everybody
that the wrist, hope, if you, if If you have got me and you know,
somebody locally who would like to train with Dr. Perrin then
you can actually go to your local doctor or osteopath and
they can actually qualify in this and then treat you because
as I said earlier, standard osteopathy is not the same thing
because with Emmy, our system is pumping backwards.
If you do standard osteopathy or standard cranial sacral with
Emmy, and it has to be that you pump the system against the
flow. That is so important and that is
why some people can end up more poorly when they have the
standard osteopathy. Whereas this is a specifically
and created modality that he has created himself over 40 years.
And of course, You know with success I think there was an 86%
success rate on his Aid to Diagnostic in the peer-reviewed
studies. Now that's huge. 86% success.
So have a look at all the studies that he's created.
That is what drove me to believe in him.
And Jonathan Ross was on loose women with his daughter, also
talking about Dr. Raymond pairing because she's got
fibromyalgia. So I say, doesn't matter what
you've got, don't get yourself help, and, and I'm sure that
there'd be a parent practitioner near to you.
That's able to support your journey ahead.
So unfortunately, we're just about out of time.
I'm wondering if I could just have a last word from from both
of you. I will start with Liz and then
we'll go back over to Kathy, just out, interest is World me
day. Next Monday.
And I know that we're about to have a delivery plan.
A long way to delivery plan on me due to be published by the
government in June, It was promised in 2022 by Sajid Java,
they had an interim delivery plan and public consultation on
that in 2023. But sort of slightly bitter
news. Is that the minister of Public
Health actually Dalton actually announced in Parliament a couple
of months ago that they won't be extra funding to care or
research. Um, so yeah, I just wanted to
say, you know, that's obviously devastating for people for
campaigners like Kathy and I just won.
Yeah, that's not a very hopeful way to end but I feel like until
people really take this seriously, we need to get
research. We need to get more funding to
care, we need specialist, centres we need to pull up all
of this kind of long, covid, vaccine injury Emmy, stop like
separating them. Let's just, you know, get some
proper research to look after people and and care for them and
learn, you know, from people like Raymond and you know, me
patients themselves because most of them will describe this.
Need for a very holistic. Multi-disciplinary approach
multi-modality Health in healing strategies, And and actually, we
can help people to recover. We, as Kathy said, we don't want
more people to lose their lives or have their lives ruined and
reduce Um, so yeah. So I'm just, you know, I I would
encourage people to get behind the me, campaigning
organizations, write to your MP and let's try and get this to be
a, you know, let's get this sorted now.
Now, that long covid has brought this into the light and the
public acceptance that we can have with these terrible,
debilitating, long illnesses on post, post infections.
I think this is a real moment when we could really make some
progress here. Would you agree?
Yes, thank you. Dr. Liz, I would absolutely
agree because and thank you for sharing your story as well,
because every single person who's been affected by this
chronic illness, including my partner, as I said, Mark
Singleton, who literally helped to carry me on his back and
pushed me in a wheelchair. So from every negative thing
that happens to us, I believe light comes from that and we
were meant to meet. And he has looked after me, his
father was head of Clinical Psychology at role, Preston
hospital and he's in the book as well.
And there's enough people in the world.
I feel who do understand how horrific this condition is, but
also have a very positive mindset, which she's what I have
as well. I will always have hope that the
future for everybody with the illness and will have a light
attached to it. I think we are entering into a
new world and where people are looking at other alternative
healing modalities. Know that they can access and,
you know, as you said Dr. Liz, the the body's natural innate
wisdom behind its ability to heal and looking at alternative
healing modalities that suit each person.
And but most importantly, my heart goes out to the whole me
community. And anybody watching today,
please, I, I encourage you to take a look at my podcast, which
is the Katherine van Dome and Me podcast where I interview Dr.
Raymond Perry as well. And also International guests in
the fields of entertainment and health and I also have my book
which is The Truth About Me by Catherine van Dome.
And also today, I'm launching mediter talk which is meditation
and talking therapy and having lived predominantly in isolation
the last 11 years. And I do feel best place is an
MX expert as somebody who has also qualified as a counselor to
be able to help the Say in whatever you're going through at
this time, and please do contact me on www.cathyglass.co.uk.
At me on him every single night and he's still alive.
So God bless you all and for myself and Tinker thank you for
having me on today. Thanks Kathy.
That was beautiful and and thank you Liz for this has been a
fascinating conversation. I just want to say UK column
will continue to investigate all of these issues.
We have said all since 2021, that we will never abandon the
vaccine injured that we are. There we all know what is wrong
with the NHS. We don't know.
We don't know exactly what is wrong with you NHS, but we know
that the NHS is not there for us.
The way it needs to be, it never was and we need to continue to
uncover the issues behind the things that are poisoning, Us in
the world. The corruption issues that are
that are making this being allowed to happen.
That our food is getting poisoned.
That our farmers are being devastated by financial
problems. All of these bigger issues are
things that I think are when we talk about the symptoms of an
illness, that all of the things that are happening in the world
that you can call them covers and will continue to cover, are
all All examples of why we are in the situation that we are
with our health and otherwise. So I, this was a fabulous
discussion today of just one, one result of this, which is
this horrible condition that has unfortunately affected both of
your lives. So thank you.
Both again for your time and your wisdom and your support for
each other and for the entire community, and thank you for
your advocacy work. And I'm sure that this will
continue in some form as UK, column continues to figure out
what we can do to, not only improve our country but also to
improve the health of those of us who live here.
So, thank you very much again. This is Diane responsibility
with UK column. Thanks very much and have
everyone have a wonderful day. Thank you.