1 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,920 My name is June. This is June. 2 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:37,600 Warfare, the battle of ideas. OK, after a couple of weeks of 3 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,960 silence, you guys are back. Kind of Say me, Charles, you 4 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,200 still no. There's no you still. 5 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,680 Yeah, OK, working. Our way working our way back, 6 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,800 slowly, slowly, yeah, but we're but we are work on the line. 7 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,320 Weirdly enough, you still sort of in former UK territory, 8 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,880 Charles. Yeah, absolutely. 9 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,920 This is it. I'm, I'm in Hong Kong and yeah, 10 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,960 it's funny. I, I was thinking about exactly 11 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:08,400 that on the way here. It was a typically British 12 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:12,640 experience, the journey I just had to where I am now in that I 13 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,880 got into a taxi and sat in traffic for the 1st 10 minutes 14 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,720 not moving anywhere at all. So home from home in that 15 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,400 regard. But yeah, but it's funny, the, 16 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,360 the, there is, I think, I think when you know what to look for, 17 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,960 certainly in terms of where the British footprint has been left 18 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,920 in various parts of the world, then then you, you, you know, 19 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,080 sort of what to identify. But I, but I do think, sadly, I 20 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,280 never came to Hong Kong prior to 97, so I don't have a direct 21 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,880 comparison to make. And there's no doubt it's 22 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,280 changed a lot since then. But there's only a simply 23 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,760 driving on the left hand side of the road for a start. 24 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,400 And there are, yeah, lots of things like the ferry, you know, 25 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,920 the, the Star Ferry that runs across the harbour still exactly 26 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,440 the same as it was over, you know, 100 and how many years 27 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,520 ago. So, yeah, there, there are lots 28 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:08,960 of absolutely lots of nods to the past, but like everywhere, a 29 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,360 huge number of pointers towards the future or, or just an 30 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,320 indication of how much times have changed. 31 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,640 Well, it's interesting. I know we've talked about this 32 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:22,040 before. The Hong Kong still uses cash 33 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,200 absolutely everywhere. I've so far, I've been here a 34 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:31,480 week now. So far I've only had to pay, not 35 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,760 using cash once, which I think is pretty good. 36 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,680 And yeah, I, I, it's interesting how those two things can be 37 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,640 alongside each other. The fact that you can have 38 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,320 enormous development, let's call it, and huge technological 39 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:49,000 advancement. So there are the options for 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,920 doing all these things. I don't even understand. 41 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:54,600 In fact, the girl who when I when I produce cash to pay and 42 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,640 she said, can you produce something else, which can you 43 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:03,080 use something else to pay with? And like an idiot, I just took 44 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,800 out a card and said, I think you mean this. 45 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,600 And then of course she reeled off several different ways in 46 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:11,320 which I could have paid without a card. 47 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:16,160 So just shows how much I know, but that so all that is there 48 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,680 and you can do it if you want, but the chances are that you 49 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,080 will actually be able to carry on paying with cash which is 50 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,800 really nice. I'm quite jealous. 51 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,480 A few months ago, Mike, you were jealous of me going to China and 52 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,680 then you went to China and I was jealous of you so. 53 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,400 So we even. No, I mean, I was jealous of you 54 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,840 going to Xinjiang in in particular, because that is a 55 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,680 part of the world that I'm fascinated by. 56 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,280 And, you know, it's clearly culturally totally different to, 57 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,280 to the the rest of China and, and just just for purely 58 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,080 historical Silk Road reasons. I, I'm fascinated by the by the 59 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,160 place. So I'd like to, I would love to 60 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,240 go and see it. So that was why I was 61 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,120 particularly jealous. Yeah. 62 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,840 I mean, it's, I think you probably had a fantastic 63 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,519 experience there. I mean, look, you're right. 64 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:22,520 The Silk Road, Belton Rd. initiative, Xinjiang is 65 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,280 completely different to the rest of China and it has huge 66 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:29,120 history. And not just culturally, Mike, I 67 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,280 mean geopolitically, traditionally cuisine, 68 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:35,960 everything is different. I mean, it's, it's more Central 69 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:44,080 Asia than than it is China. Well, a date, but yes, indeed. 70 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,480 But I was, I was thinking more in terms of the, the, the 71 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:47,960 historical rather than the modern. 72 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,200 But, but obviously the, I've seen the, I've seen the, the 73 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,680 trailer for the documentary that's, that's being made at the 74 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,680 moment. And, and clearly that is a, a, a 75 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,120 part of the world which is changing very rapidly now. 76 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,840 Why were you there? Why were we in China? 77 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:10,440 We were invited to China by Marcel Janka. 78 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:16,880 Who is has been a AUK column member since 2019 or 2020. 79 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,200 And and he has been running a business in China for I don't 80 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,040 know how long. And every year they they run a, 81 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:34,240 a sort of annual company event, which, which this year he 82 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,960 invited us to along with a number of others. 83 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,480 Carl was there, Pepe Escobar was there a number of other people 84 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:48,520 that that probably UK column viewers will be aware of because 85 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:55,600 Marcel wanted to sort of show off some of his other activities 86 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,600 to to the people that were to to his company's employees. 87 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,480 And, and, and it was it was also an opportunity just to, to go 88 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,680 and see a, a city in China that that we hadn't seen before. 89 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:13,640 So, so we were absolutely taking around the place very similar to 90 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,080 the, to the kind of city tours and, and other tours that that 91 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,160 that I did back in April last year when I went just on 92 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:28,640 holiday. But you know, this was really 93 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,520 just an opportunity to, to meet his people in, you know, that 94 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,080 that work in that part of the world. 95 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,320 So it was, it was a fantastic experience. 96 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,200 Well. As well I think. 97 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, just, you know, I think 98 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:48,160 the fact, the fact that we were that there we were OK, four of 99 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:54,760 us from UK column, you and I and Chris and Gemma and there, you 100 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,960 know, the, the vast majority of well, in fact, I think all but 101 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:06,480 Marcel are spread across China, Chinese nationals. 102 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,800 And therefore for them to look at what we do and what some of 103 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,720 the others are doing in the context of their lives and 104 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,120 professional backgrounds, I think was was a fascinating 105 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,680 exchange. But both ways. 106 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:26,360 I mean, we, Mike and I were totally gripped by what we saw. 107 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,560 It was, it was absolutely remarkable by any metric. 108 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,720 So I think, yeah, I think that's just an important point to make 109 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,800 was that there was, there was definitely, you know, huge sort 110 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,600 of interest both ways. I mean, Jeremy, we've, we've 111 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,720 had, you know, we've had a few communications from people in 112 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,280 the last couple of weeks asking about Marcel because, because 113 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:53,720 of. Stuff that's I was going to ask 114 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,880 on the. Internet at the moment, but but 115 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:02,120 look, I mean he is he is German national originally he set up a 116 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,400 business in China to producing Charles. 117 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,800 I would I would guess we would describe it as traditional 118 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,360 medicines. Traditional Chinese medicine? 119 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Yeah. Plant based medicines, yeah. 120 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:15,840 Right. So it's, yeah, I mean, I've, 121 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,680 I've seen the medicines, they it's not pharmaceutical at all. 122 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,760 No, and he, he has done very well at that and he has 123 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,280 supported a lot of people in, in particularly since COVID 124 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,720 happened. He's supported a lot of people 125 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,320 that have been speaking out against what's, what's been 126 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,960 going on in the world. And as I say, he's been Auk 127 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,039 column member since since around the COVID time, a little bit 128 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:42,840 before maybe. And, and, and he has made he has 129 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,840 supported us a lot over that, over that period of time. 130 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:51,720 And I have to say he's, he's one of the, the, the I, I, I just 131 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,760 enjoy his, his company. Anytime we do meet up, he is a 132 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,520 fantastic bloke. So, you know, we're, we're 133 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,080 delighted to have him on board. And, and you know, he's 134 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,600 extremely generous with his time and, and with his ideas and so 135 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,880 on. But you know, we've always got 136 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,480 to keep in mind that that the UK column is the UK column and, and 137 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,120 he has just want to reinforce his point. 138 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,080 He has no desire to to see us heading in any direction other 139 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:27,800 than the one that we were intending to go in. 140 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,280 So, so just to to set everybody's mind at rest on that 141 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,200 point. Sorry, I pressed the wrong 142 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,840 button. I've known myself for for many 143 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,480 years, I mean, from when I was back at TNT. 144 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,320 And you're quite correct. He just wants a better future 145 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,600 for for, you know, his kids and for our kids. 146 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,360 And and that's how it should be. We all should want a better 147 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,560 future. I get so annoyed, Mike, at this 148 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:00,840 constant bickering within the opposition, quote UN quote 149 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,880 movement. And we've spoken about this 150 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:09,040 before, but it again, it's relevant because I, I constantly 151 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:15,160 see even myself being accused of being controlled opposition and 152 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,520 whatever else. Now, Mike, your degree of 153 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,840 control over me is terrible. I have to admit. 154 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,080 You've, you've got to up your game. 155 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:28,200 I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I hosted a show where the guest 156 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 argued that Earth is flat. You should have stopped that 157 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,360 Mike. And then Mike disappeared. 158 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,600 And with that, he's gone. Yeah, what has happened that 159 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,840 That's very annoying. That's extremely impressive. 160 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,440 Well, I can still hear. I can still hear you, Mike. 161 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,320 Well. Done. 162 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,960 Hold on, hold on a second. Let me see what we can do here, 163 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,320 kind of turn this off and turn this back on again. 164 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,840 You see, that's, that's the level of, of, of control you 165 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,760 have, Mike. You can't control camera even. 166 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:07,240 Or that, that that somebody has to be able to manipulate at 167 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,760 every stage. What's going on in the 168 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,480 background? See there? 169 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,000 He's there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 170 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,080 Yeah, look, I'm just going to have to, I'm just going to have 171 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,760 to use the the the laptop camera. 172 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,920 I'm not sure why that has happened so. 173 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:22,640 That's fine. We'll just, you were going to, 174 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,800 you were going to say Mike. What was going to say? 175 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,920 Yeah, you were asking about about the the sort of bickering 176 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,400 within the opposition groups. Look, we have to always remember 177 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,080 that that we are in an information war. 178 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,680 And, you know, at at the end of the day, people are going to be 179 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:46,480 influenced by a lot of the stuff which is pushed out on various 180 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:50,440 formats and platforms. But you know, over the, you 181 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,480 know, we've been doing this for 20 years, Germ. 182 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,600 And in that time the amount of stuff that has appeared on the 183 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,480 Internet about us, which has been absolutely factually 184 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,400 incorrect, possibly defamatory in many cases. 185 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,000 So I take everything that I see about anybody with a massive 186 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,600 pinch of salt. Now, Marcel has supported a lot 187 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,720 of people over the last five or six years in particular. 188 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,440 And some of those people, for whatever reason, that 189 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,920 relationship is broken down. And as a result there is the 190 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,400 usual vitriol doing the rounds about him from one or two 191 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,720 people. But I look at this from the 192 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,760 point of view that, you know, the, the number of people that, 193 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,760 that are massively appreciative of the help that he has given 194 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,800 over the years vastly outweighs the number of people that are 195 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,080 complaining about him. And that applies, I think, to to 196 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,960 us and to just about everybody else that's doing this in any 197 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:57,360 kind of honest way. So our view has always been that 198 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,440 bearing in mind that we have been in the receiving end of 199 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,160 this kind of nonsense for so many years and so many instances 200 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,480 of it that that we absolutely will not get involved in that 201 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,080 kind of effort. Because what is the point at the 202 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,840 end of the day, whether somebody that that's, that's an 203 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:20,680 opposition or who claims to be resisting the agenda is 204 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:23,880 attacking us or not, we're not the enemy because we're not, 205 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,600 we're not pursuing these agenda, these agenda items that, that 206 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,480 are the ones that are intended to, to, to enslave us or 207 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,000 whatever it is that that people are particularly concerned about 208 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,840 at this, at this moment in time. So our efforts should be 209 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,520 directed at the at the policy makers, at the governments, at 210 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,560 the financiers that are that are building this technocracy that 211 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:52,160 we're seeing at the moment and are using war as as a mechanism 212 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,600 to to drive public support for the direction they're going in. 213 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,000 So why would we focus any attention on any of the people 214 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,240 that are really not relevant to this discussion? 215 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,960 Yeah, but that's the point. And I mean, going back to 216 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,200 Marcel, I mean, a lot of people don't know you were talking 217 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,840 about how he's helped numerous individuals over the years. 218 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,440 I mean, Secret Bhakti was one of my very first interviews ever. 219 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,120 And I think that was back in 2020. 220 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,280 And he was heavily attacked by the German government 221 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,440 particularly. In fact, you might remember they 222 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,880 wanted to take him down and they took him legal, and they wanted 223 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,200 to absolutely destroy him. And who was there to help Secret 224 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:40,040 was Marcel. And I mean only a good person 225 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,320 would do that. Sukrit was also is a great man. 226 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,920 He's one of the best, absolutely one of the best. 227 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,800 Sorry, Charles, Go ahead. No, no, I mean, I was only going 228 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,120 to say, you know, that that that story, I think is is absolutely 229 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,960 sort of illustrative because it, you know, in doing say that that 230 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,560 action that Marcel took forged, you know, very close bond 231 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,560 between the two. And to hear I, I, I don't know 232 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,440 Sukrit bhakti, but to hear Marcel talk about him is it is 233 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,800 wonderful. And I think it, it absolutely 234 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,360 exemplifies what we should be thinking about, which should be, 235 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,200 which are the human relationships and fostering 236 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,960 positivity and concentrating on what can be done and what should 237 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,480 be done and dealing with obstacles, true obstacles that 238 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,440 are put in our path. And, and to look at it the other 239 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,560 way, you know, as you've just been alluding to, I do find it 240 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,680 completely remarkable. But also it it, it sort of tells 241 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,960 you everything you need to know to see that people are 242 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,040 dedicating their energies to attacking those around them who 243 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,600 are ostensibly apparently trying to, well, I say, trying to do 244 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,520 the same thing. They're they're apparently 245 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,200 seeing many of the same things and yet the chosen course of 246 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,040 action for it seems like an increasing number of people. 247 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,720 Maybe it's not an increasing number of people. 248 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,760 Maybe it is just the sort of multiplier effect of social 249 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,440 media. But but it, it, it does at times 250 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:20,760 seem like an increasing number of people are utterly blindsided 251 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:28,920 by the idea that rather than concentrating on the things that 252 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:34,760 they could be doing about their own lives or about those that we 253 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,320 discuss sort of ad infinitum, you know, that the, the powers 254 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,040 that be, the corporations, that those that are running corrupt 255 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,800 governments and whatnot. Instead, there is a, a sort of 256 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,840 turn inwards and a, you know, and A and sort of vicious 257 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,160 attacking. And I think the point, I think 258 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,840 that the point I'm making specifically with regard to the 259 00:16:53,840 --> 00:17:00,800 back D relationship is, is that it, it in, in doing the, the 260 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,440 sort of inward attack, everything is negative. 261 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,040 There's there's absolutely nothing positive about that. 262 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,480 It is, it is all bringing people down. 263 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,560 It's all it's ego. It's ego. 264 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,400 Well, it, I, I think, I think that is that is also true. 265 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,560 But in, in, you know, I talk about this a lot. 266 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:24,760 If you, if you want to realise an intention or a dream or a 267 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,440 goal or whatever you want to call it, you have to visualize 268 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,320 it in such a way that you believe that not only it's 269 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,280 attainable, but you are actually going to attain it. 270 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:42,120 And the reverse is true. So if you don't believe that and 271 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,600 you just want to wallow in sort of self pity and negativity and 272 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,400 sour grapes and all that sort of thing, well, where's that? 273 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,240 Where's that going to take you? And, and I, I feel it is a great 274 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,400 pity that so many people have a tendency to get drawn into this 275 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,240 as though it's meaningful. Of course, we're never going to 276 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:10,640 be in a position where everybody on supposedly sort of one side 277 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,040 is going to be utterly unified in their thinking and their 278 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,680 actions. But So what? 279 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,680 Concentrate on the overlapping ground and the positive steps. 280 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,680 And if there's something you see that you don't like, fine, just 281 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,200 just steer clear of it. But to to get distracted to the 282 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,120 point of that consuming your focus for your output. 283 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:35,960 Is it? It is, it's a disaster really. 284 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,120 And and you know, as I say, a great pity for those who might 285 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:47,480 once have seen a better future, but actually have become sort of 286 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,760 deluded by the the absolute nonsense that swirls around 287 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,000 there and then. And then to consider though 288 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,280 that's actually important when it's not, it's just absolute 289 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,480 NIF, NAF and trivia and doesn't just doesn't deserve the time of 290 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,040 day. Look, that is a really, really 291 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,000 important point Jaren, because, because this is something that 292 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,480 has frustrated me since September 11th, 2001, frankly, 293 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,800 because what happened with the that's a perfect example. 294 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,160 What happened with the so-called 911 truth movement over the next 295 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,240 26 years as we are vastly, rapidly approaching. 296 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,920 What happened was the divided across 2 camps, the architects 297 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,600 for engineers camp and the Judy Wood camp, right? 298 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,880 And, and what happened was they started fighting each other. 299 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,920 And for the last 26 years they've been fighting each 300 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,840 other. 25 years, sorry, they've been fighting each other, right? 301 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,480 What is the point of that? To no matter. 302 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,400 Whether you believe, No matter whether you exactly, no matter 303 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,000 whether you believe in controlled demolition or whether 304 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,800 you believe in directed energy weapons, both parties believe 305 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,800 and can agree that it was not the aircraft that brought the 306 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,560 buildings down. So why not focus on that? 307 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,480 They can have their discussions about which is who's right about 308 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,520 that. That is something that they can 309 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,400 have internally within the movement. 310 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,440 But the, the, the campaign point is it wasn't the aircraft that 311 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,680 it was therefore a, a, an inside job. 312 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,120 And that that inside job has been used to justify a whole 313 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,800 host of historical events that have brought us to this point 314 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,120 today where we're staring down the barrels of potentially 315 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,280 global conflict or at the very least technocracy, right? 316 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,840 Yes, that, that that focus of that entire effort should have 317 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,000 been on that. And everything else is 318 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,960 superfluous to that. Mike. 319 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,520 This is the problem with the opposition movement, since we 320 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,920 are determined to RIP each other's heads off instead of 321 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,560 fighting the actual enemy. And it drives me nuts, I have to 322 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,080 admit it. It absolutely drives me up the 323 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,240 wall. Me too, I'm having arguments 324 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:51,320 lately with friends who are caught up in the same nonsense 325 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,320 and I keep saying but what is the end goal here? 326 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,880 What are you trying to do? Is it an ego battle? 327 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,600 Are you actually interested in taking down a, the official 328 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,240 narrative or, or, or or you or you try to fulfill the prophecy, 329 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,760 you know, made by Sun Tzu when you destroy the opposition from 330 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,120 within. And I, I, I see the same thing 331 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,320 you mentioned 911 Mike, the same thing with the whole no virus 332 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,800 thing. Yes, 100%, exactly the same. 333 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,360 Yes. And that argument about virus, 334 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,840 no, virus has been running for 150 years, 200 years, whatever 335 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,880 it is, we're not going to solve it at this point in time. 336 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,440 But let's all fight about it right now because that way we 337 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,600 can distract ourselves and we're not actually having to deal with 338 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,720 the the, the real because guess what guys? 339 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,160 We're scared of the real enemy, right? 340 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,280 And this is, I think this is really what this is the 341 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,680 psychology behind it. Aside from the fact that the 342 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:51,120 real enemy is pushing in, you know, narratives from outside. 343 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,000 I think a large part of this is the fact that people would would 344 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,720 prefer to be fighting amongst themselves and actually fighting 345 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,400 the beast that they see in front of them. 346 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,160 Because that beast is very, very big. 347 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,880 And they're very, very scared of it. 348 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,800 And it's got lots of money and they don't really know what to 349 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,520 do about it there. There's a lot of very complex 350 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280 psychology going on here. There is and I think I think I, 351 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,480 I think interestingly, you know, going back to where we started 352 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,200 on this conversation here, Mike and I just had a trip to China. 353 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,840 I I'm now in Hong Kong. Marcel who've been talking about 354 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,360 now UK column shareholder really sort of important part of the 355 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:30,280 team has worked in China, worked in Japan, worked all over Asia 356 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,640 and has a company that operates in China. 357 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:39,880 So for this sort of thinking that we're describing the the 358 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:45,960 confluence of, you know, the idea of not confronting the 359 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,440 things that should be confronted. 360 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,560 And indeed, the spectre of China as it's presented by the 361 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,360 mainstream has just been a gift. Because for the for the idle 362 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:02,400 thinker, that is a sort of ah, right, yeah, OK, China and UK 363 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,040 column, but sort of put them in the same sentence now. 364 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:11,000 And then we can do the the big sort of conjuring trick of which 365 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,120 is exactly what the British government is doing, which is to 366 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:19,960 say China is China is a threat. And there are things happening 367 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,360 in China that that we must be very wary of. 368 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,760 And if we keep your eyes over there, then you won't pay 369 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,120 attention to what's happening right here and you won't 370 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,440 consider that the conditions here are actually probably 371 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,400 already worse than what's being described in. 372 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,040 I mean, you know, China is the obvious example. 373 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,720 It's so it's so easy. I mean, in a way you could sort 374 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,400 of pick your your threatening or problematic state elsewhere. 375 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,520 But I but I do feel China exactly is, is just it is the 376 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:59,200 ultimate proxy for denying what's right in front of you. 377 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,200 You know, what are you to do? This terrible problem of whether 378 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,240 it's sort of Chinese surveillance, spying, or the 379 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,280 fact that they're supposedly running this awfully oppressive 380 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,680 state where it seems you can actually do more or less what 381 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,600 you want to do. But nonetheless, huge 382 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,440 distraction and if you keep talking about it, then again, in 383 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,960 the same way you do not need to confront the things that are 384 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,520 going on specifically in the UK around you about which actually 385 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,240 if you focused, you might be able to do something. 386 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,040 Well, going back to the 9/11 comment, Mike. 387 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,200 So I interviewed A gentleman by the name of Matt Campbell a few 388 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:48,400 times actually, and he has spent I think close to £300,000 if 389 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,520 memory serves, which is a huge amount of money. 390 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,440 Sure, not all of these own a lot of its donations and and all 391 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,040 sorts of other things. Trying to get the British 392 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,680 government to reopen the investigation so that he can 393 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,200 actually find out what happened to his brother who died that 394 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,040 day. What, what has happened since 395 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:11,160 he's getting attacked by the darted energy weapons group 396 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,600 saying, oh, but you this is all controlled. 397 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,280 It's, it's gatekeeping, blah, blah, blah. 398 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,880 So what are they ultimately doing? 399 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,680 They're they're trying to stop something that's really, really 400 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,960 important. And by the way, Marcel also 401 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,360 helped with the with a bit of the obvious legal of his legal 402 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:29,120 funds, which obviously makes him a really bad person for doing 403 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,800 that, right, Because because that's only what that's only 404 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,640 what controlled opposition folks do. 405 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,440 They they try and support the government, but I mean it, it 406 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,520 just blows my mind when when people are are are more 407 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,520 interested in their own egos. But something in you and I spoke 408 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,280 about Mike on the phone, that there is also an element of 409 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:55,720 design here, this infiltration. Yes, I, I mean, I, I would 410 00:25:56,360 --> 00:26:00,520 absolutely guarantee that there's infiltration in, in many 411 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,200 of these campaigns. And of course, it's very, very 412 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,200 hard to identify exactly who might who those infiltrating 413 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,520 voices might be. And, and really, at the end of 414 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:18,280 the day, we should probably not be spending too much time or 415 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,480 energy trying to work out exactly who it is. 416 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,360 What we should be spending our time and energy doing is working 417 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:31,000 out what the, what the right message should be and, and 418 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,080 trying to work out what is divisive within our within, 419 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,440 within our communities and, and try to deal with the 420 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,800 divisiveness. But we don't deal with it by 421 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,480 fighting the people that are, that are pushing what are 422 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,960 divisive narratives. We, we, we deal with it by 423 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:53,560 making our, our positions, our, the, the, the, the, the approach 424 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,600 we're taking needs to be better, right? 425 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800 So, so I view each of these types of, of attacks as an 426 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,440 opportunity to, to, to rethink how we're presenting the 427 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,520 information and, and making that argument stronger. 428 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,360 If, if, if this is what I actually believe, then that's 429 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:12,200 what I'm presenting, then I've got to make that argument 430 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,760 stronger or, and I'm not going to say that it has never 431 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,160 happened. There are times when actually 432 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,080 it, it causes me to rethink my argument altogether. 433 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,960 That's that's part and parcel of evolution of, of positions and, 434 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,520 and, and actually analyzing the evidence. 435 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:39,080 But you know, deciding on what are the the most productive ways 436 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:45,960 to make your points and deciding when that discussion about 437 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,880 whether this is right or that is right should be something that 438 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,440 happens in the background and not something which is being 439 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,080 presented out front. This is part of what we have to 440 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,440 do every day, and hopefully we mostly get it right. 441 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,640 Well. Not always, but hopefully 442 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,600 mostly. Well, obviously an underlying 443 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,760 theme here is China. And I wanna just touch on this 444 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,000 just a bit more because since I mean, since you are there, 445 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,160 Charles, and you were there, Mike and I was there. 446 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,960 And so now there's this common denominator. 447 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,880 We all seem to have this connection to China. 448 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,840 And we've seen some of the comments on YouTube, for 449 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,600 example, where they go, oh, you guys have become China column. 450 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,000 So you might, you might see some of the feedback going, oh, but 451 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,840 you guys are just making excuses. 452 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,520 You are becoming more. China orientated. 453 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,760 Anybody that thinks that hasn't been paying attention, right? 454 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,960 Because because I started talking about about this 455 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,960 20/15/2016, part of the part of the reason I started talking 456 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:59,240 about this was because it was absolutely clear going back 1516 457 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,280 years, it was clear that that the British government has been 458 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,880 building a case for conflict with Russia and China. 459 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,200 And they've been doing it very systematically and, and the 460 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,680 types of people that have. And the US government. 461 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,920 Well, but, but let's just focus on Britain because because 462 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,240 that's, that's, that's really what we're mostly concerned 463 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,880 about here. But but the people that were 464 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,680 driving these agendas were the likes of Richard Dearlove. 465 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,520 And I'm saying to people, well, hold on a second. 466 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,960 Richard Dearlove is the man who we all agree created the yellow 467 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,800 cake narrative which brought us to to into war in Iraq, which we 468 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,720 all agree that Tony Blair is basically should be tried for 469 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,800 war crimes as a result of we all agree that the Iraq war was was 470 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,400 wrong and the person who created that narrative was Richard 471 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,800 Dearlove. Richard Dearlove comes along 472 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,360 creating a narrative about Russia and China and we say, 473 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,720 yeah, let's have that because we don't like Russia and China so 474 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,840 we agree with them. Sorry, that's not how it works 475 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,520 in my book. That man, it was was C He was 476 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,320 head of MI 6. He has an agenda. 477 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,280 Now, I have never taken the position that China or Russia 478 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,800 can do no wrong. They are governments and States 479 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,840 and governments and states do things that people in those 480 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,360 countries don't like. That's that's not the point. 481 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,400 I'm trying to make my point in what we have been doing since 482 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,080 now, I've been talking about this certainly since 20/15/2016 483 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,520 is to say, well, hold on a second, the British government 484 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,560 wants you to believe this about this country. 485 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,480 Actually, there's another side of this. 486 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,720 And it's no way to let China off with anything in terms of 487 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,120 technocracy or you know, the, whatever's going on in, in 488 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,160 Central Africa with, with child labour and, and cobalt mines and 489 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,280 these kinds of things. We we should not be letting 490 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,960 anybody away with anything. But what we have got to do is to 491 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,280 try to be a bit more objective about what the country is and 492 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,760 whether we should be believing that it is some kind of enemy 493 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,960 that we've got to fight. I mean, for example, the perfect 494 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,480 example of this was the whole campaign of our Huawei and 495 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:25,360 Huawei equipment being on Western and British 5G networks. 496 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,160 Why was Britain, this was viewed or just being presented by the 497 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,560 British government as being a national security issue? 498 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,960 Why was it viewed as a national security issue? 499 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:39,040 Was it because they were worried about Huawei's equipment being 500 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,880 installed and then the Chinese government hoovering up huge 501 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,920 quantities of Western data, including government and 502 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,280 military data? Or was it because every piece of 503 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,320 Huawei kit on the network means that it's not Palo Alto Networks 504 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:01,200 or Checkpoint, which is is really intelligence agency 505 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,000 backed, right? And and therefore it's therefore 506 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,320 the the Western, the Five Eyes plus Israel can't get access to 507 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,280 that information now. In fact, what Huawei did was 508 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,680 they give the British intelligence agencies the source 509 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,280 code that was going to be running and every piece of kit 510 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,000 that was being sold in the United Kingdom. 511 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000 And actually MI 5 and MI 6 accepted that there was nothing 512 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000 wrong with it. And, but, but for political 513 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,600 reasons, the decision was made that, that, that that kit should 514 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,320 not be there. So, and in the and in the 515 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,760 meantime, we're getting as we, we highlighted on the UK column 516 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,440 news just before we went to China stories in the Telegraph, 517 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,040 which are just so absolutely ridiculous. 518 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,920 It's how it could even be described as journalism is, is 519 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,720 beyond me. But suggesting that that China 520 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:58,200 has got is, is intending to to Snoop on fiber optic cables that 521 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,640 are running along the street outside their new embassy in 522 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,240 London. I mean, the thing was just the 523 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,120 story was just so incredible that, you know, how they got 524 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:12,360 away with it, I don't know. But anyway, so my point is this 525 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,960 is not something this our position on China, our editorial 526 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,560 position on China is not one that that is new. 527 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,360 It's, it has been something that's been running for years. 528 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,240 It's designed, it's, it's intended to counter the 529 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:34,400 narrative which is there to, which decided to drive public 530 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,160 opinion in the direction of conflict with a country that we 531 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,000 don't need to be in conflict with. 532 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,320 And it's, it's, it's hypocritical in so many ways 533 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,800 because while every, all the people that are in are in the UK 534 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,720 that are being, and they're being radicalized. 535 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,920 Let's, let's put the correct word on this. 536 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,440 They're being radicalized to believe that China is this 537 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,040 massive enemy. They're all buying their iPhones 538 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,720 and their computers and their bits of tech and their plastic 539 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,880 tat. Let's all be made in China. 540 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,360 So if you really don't believe that China is, or if you believe 541 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,440 that China is the enemy and stop buying Chinese goods that that 542 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,840 seems to be, otherwise it's their position's hypocritical. 543 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,280 It would be my argument, but but anyway, none of what we say is 544 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,880 intended to ever let anybody, Russia or China off with 545 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,480 anything. And if there's criticism to be 546 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,360 made of those countries, and goodness knows Vanessa is 547 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:39,400 criticizing both heavily at the moment because of their their 548 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,600 position on Syria, on their position on Gaza and with some 549 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,320 justification. So, so we aren't going to stop 550 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,600 the critical voices, even though I personally, I'm trying to, to 551 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,639 say to people, look, you got to, you got to actually think about 552 00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,680 what it is you're being told about these countries because 553 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,080 it's not necessarily true. I mean, when I was in China, I 554 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,320 spoke to both Vanessa and and Whitney Webb incidentally, and 555 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,040 both of them were, were giving me very, very, shall we say, 556 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,840 less than positive information about the Chinese government. 557 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,880 Because like every other country, China has a government 558 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,240 and it also has its own deep state and it also has its own 559 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,880 warts. But you see the problem here 560 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,800 Mike is, and you were basically saying this is that there is 561 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:38,800 this deep rooted psychology that has been the result of years and 562 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,680 years and years of propaganda and anti China indoctrination 563 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,840 that the moment you say something positive, anything 564 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,000 positive about anything to do with China, you're a shell or 565 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,760 you're a grifter. When I came back, I received 566 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,520 more negative response than I think I did when I took on the 567 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,760 vaccine during during the COVID era. 568 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:07,120 I've never experienced such a harsh negative pushback. 569 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,880 And for what? Simply for. 570 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,080 You know, but you know why Germ the the reason is because of 571 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,960 Trump's position on China and Farage's position on China, that 572 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:23,400 that's why people people need to stop listening to to these types 573 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,240 of, of voices and, and actually think about things and and 574 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,000 decide for themselves. But, but you know, that's part 575 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,800 of why we went. And Charles, I'm sure is going 576 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,280 to say something about this because because at the end of 577 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:41,080 the day, we we should not be relying on on the stuff that's 578 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,560 out there. It's if, if possible, we should 579 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,200 all be actually going and looking for ourselves. 580 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,280 Yeah, I think that's the that's the point at which I'd like to 581 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,480 chime in because what fascinates me about China, I mean, it would 582 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,240 apply to other places, except that other places don't seem to 583 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,320 draw fire in quite the way in quite the same way that China 584 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,680 does. What what I find absolutely 585 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,680 amazing is how invested people can become in a narrative 586 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,840 without any first hand experience of it whatsoever. 587 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:16,600 So you have people talking about the, the surveillance state in 588 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,480 China. I didn't have my notebook out 589 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,520 with me, but I was keeping a mental note of, for example, the 590 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,320 amount of CCTV cameras in the airports at each end. 591 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,920 Without a doubt, Heathrow Airport had more cameras per 592 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,800 square foot than anywhere else we went. 593 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:43,240 The idea that somehow having to fill out a form in order to 594 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:49,560 apply for a visa for China is in some way an an out of the park 595 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,160 authoritarian measure is ridiculous. 596 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:57,840 I I have worked and travelled in more than 70 countries in the 597 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,360 world. This is not unusual. 598 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,160 And actually look at what happened as a result of the 599 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,040 stammer visit for Brits, 30 days visa free travel, et cetera. 600 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,040 So this absolutely peculiar idea that China is in some way an 601 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,480 outlier, it's completely extraordinary. 602 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:22,040 The only places I have ever felt the full force of the law, let's 603 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,600 say, and taken hiding from police and indeed been stolen, 604 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,840 been robbed by police, was in Ukraine of all places. 605 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,960 Again, an absolutely lovely place, terrifically corrupt. 606 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,800 But you know, so, so I mean, what, what's, what's the point? 607 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,680 The other place, the, the only other place where I have 608 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:48,720 encountered, let's say, unfair or incorrect policing has been 609 00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:52,120 in the United Kingdom. And this is exactly my point. 610 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,320 Yet we have people who are largely based in the United 611 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,720 Kingdom who are absolutely convinced that what they're told 612 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:06,000 about China without visiting is A, true and B, so completely 613 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,280 different from anywhere else. And I mean, it is just not the 614 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,800 case. I do caveat that, of course, 615 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,400 because doubtless some people will have thought are, but 616 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,920 you've just been there just this one time, Okay, It's not 617 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,280 strictly true. I have been there once 618 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,240 previously. I'm not, I'm not claiming to be 619 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:29,760 speaking from anything other than the very brief experience I 620 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,480 have had there. So I'm going on what I have 621 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,680 seen, what I have heard and what I have gleaned from the 622 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,760 conversations I have had with people that do live there. 623 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:47,880 But I, I absolutely saw nothing that was beyond the parameters 624 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,320 within which we exist in the West. 625 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,760 Absolutely nothing. And the other point I would like 626 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,360 to make, which is a really important one. 627 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:02,800 And Mike spoke about the city Chongqing that we, that we were 628 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,400 in on Wednesday's news programme. 629 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,120 One of the defining characteristics of it, first of 630 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,840 all, it's enormous size. I think Mike said 20 something. 631 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,160 I, the figure I'd heard was 32,000,000 people. 632 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,600 Either way, there's a heck of a lot of people there. 633 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:22,920 And yet in the time that we spent, which was nearly a full 634 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,000 week, and we did travel out and about a lot, I saw not one 635 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,480 instance of anything other than completely cordial behaviour. 636 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,800 There was a sense of complete calm in the place. 637 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,600 And before anyone might leap to the conclusion that our it's 638 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,720 because they're surveilled, it's because there are police, you 639 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,920 know, sort of tapping their truncheons on every corner. 640 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,680 No, it's not that that does not exist. 641 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:57,200 That is not a thing. And I can't explain why that is. 642 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,480 But it was a very, very interesting talking point 643 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,200 because particularly there, Karl Zarb's on the trip as well. 644 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,760 He's from Chongqing. He left in 1990. 645 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,400 And it was just in passing, actually, I just said to him, 646 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,160 gosh, it is so extraordinary to come across a place with this 647 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,920 concentrated a population and to experience such in sort of 648 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,120 complete tranquility. Okay, this was multiplied. 649 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,000 And then this is, I'm not, I'm not trying to sell the, the 650 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,200 concept, but by and large vehicles there are electric. 651 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,760 So there's, it's really quiet. It's, it's sort of eerie 652 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,520 actually, because not only have you got quiet from the, the 653 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,880 roads themselves, but also quiet from the people. 654 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,720 They're not screaming and shouting and seeking attention 655 00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:40,840 like like sort of British teenagers who who you know, 656 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,200 can't help but sort of spray fizzy drinks all over the place, 657 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,280 screaming and shouting. Just generally, you know, that 658 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,280 that sort of nuisance factor absolutely was not a thing at 659 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,240 all. And yet Carl was saying that 660 00:41:55,240 --> 00:42:00,800 when he left back in 1990, the sense of sort of friction and, 661 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,200 and crime in particular was completely different from how it 662 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,720 is now. And the, the, the what the 663 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,800 talking point for that was I, Mike and I were both looking at 664 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,600 some motorbikes parked out, none of which were locked and even 665 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,480 people just left their helmet unattended on top of the bike. 666 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,760 You would never do that anywhere in the UK now, sadly, maybe 667 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,560 parts Scotland and Wales, but but basically you wouldn't, it 668 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,600 would be half inched in in seconds and and somehow, and I 669 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,520 believe across all of, if not most of, oh, sorry, most of, if 670 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,960 not all of China, this is now a common factor. 671 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:38,600 And that went alongside the sense of sort of order and 672 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,080 discipline and also really strong, I don't know quite how 673 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:44,800 you describe it. I was going to say family 674 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,600 values. What was what was very, very 675 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,960 obvious was that people walked around in families. 676 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,480 And partly that's because internal tourism is such a big 677 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,000 part of the economy. So anyway, you go now is 678 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,760 populated by enormous numbers of Chinese tourists. 679 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,400 And so therefore, it stands to the reason they would be 680 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,520 families. And obviously we're now we're 681 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,880 nearly at Chinese New Year. So that would that would explain 682 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,400 it to a certain degree, But there really was a very, very 683 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,440 strong family ethos. But the but the idea again that, 684 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:19,000 you know, China is this sort of downtrodden, broken, subjugated 685 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,640 population because of the threat from the authority or whatever. 686 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:30,800 Actually police were evident in places, but only they kept a 687 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,040 very low profile. Absolutely nothing like driving 688 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,800 around or walking around the city centre in the United 689 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,960 Kingdom where you would see many, many more police vehicles. 690 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,040 You would absolutely without doubt see what I would describe 691 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:52,800 as nuisance or just aggro or just chaos. 692 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:54,400 And there was none of that either. 693 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,720 So I'm not saying I know the answers. 694 00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:00,040 I don't. I couldn't articulate or trace 695 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,840 back to 1990 or whenever that began to change and say why that 696 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,960 has happened. And yes, OK, that that 697 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:14,800 undoubtedly there may be an element of control, let's say, 698 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:22,240 or the idea that that not to toe the line would have negative 699 00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,680 consequences, but it it, that that was absolutely not an 700 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,720 evidence. And, and people, there was no 701 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:32,000 demonstration at all that people felt sort of, you know, fearful. 702 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,760 So that that was a very interesting point to make. 703 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,960 And, and, and I think, you know, the, the way, certainly the way 704 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,200 that Carl spoke about it, I think it'd be worth talking to 705 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,800 him more about this was the sort of thread between and, and this 706 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,720 is dangerous territory, but, but the idea that the population was 707 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,680 sort of pulled up by it's bootstraps by means of 708 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:57,360 education, regional investment, internal investment, and, and 709 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,800 also the, you know, embracing the idea of sense of national 710 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,200 pride, but in, in a, in a very genuine way. 711 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:07,000 And, and then the other thing, sorry, no, I've gone on for a 712 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,560 while. The other thing which which I 713 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,360 would just like to finish off by saying is in terms of the sort 714 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,280 of, you know, going back to their love and whatnot. 715 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,240 The other thing people are utterly ignorant of is, is the 716 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,360 history of China, but also the recent history concerning the 717 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,800 British position and the British involvement in China. 718 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,920 We have done nothing to that country except for try to shaft 719 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,400 it and look back at the Victorian period and and what 720 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,880 was happening there. You know, the opium trade, the 721 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,680 Opium wars, the the ports, the treaties at absolutely at every 722 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,240 turn the British sought to do nothing but exploit and cause 723 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:54,200 havoc in China. I was going to say that during 724 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,960 your dialogue there, your monologue there, Charles, you're 725 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:04,480 talking about them, but you are in China just as a, as a, as a 726 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,560 point of accuracy. Yes, yeah, OK, sorry, but I'm 727 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,240 just, I'm just making because I'm in Hong Kong. 728 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,440 I'm just making a distinction because people do still get a 729 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,640 bit touched about it. I'm I'm making that distinction 730 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,800 between Hong Kong and China. But you see, then then again, 731 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,000 that's another fascinating thing. 732 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,840 And I and I will bring this into the news next week because one 733 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,360 of the big talking points in Hong Kong at the moment is the 734 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:30,160 sentencing of Jimmy Lai, the, you know, supposedly a sort of, 735 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,440 you know, force around which the freedom movement coalesced in 736 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,440 2019. Now, I've had some very 737 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,080 interesting conversations with people here who have first hand 738 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:49,440 experience of some of the things that have been going on, let's 739 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,080 say slightly behind the scenes. So, so there's, there's more to 740 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,320 come out on that. But but, but that that is such a 741 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,880 clear indication of the absolutely nefarious, nefarious 742 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,840 foreign influence. And you know the, the I mean, we 743 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:08,480 see it all the time, But, but again, this idea that that China 744 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:14,120 is the negative or is exerting negative influence on Hong Kong. 745 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,280 And therefore people apparently are not going to or not going to 746 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,360 allow themselves to see what in particular the United States and 747 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,240 the United Kingdom might be doing in order to present that 748 00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:32,480 very impression and what benefit they may derive from such an 749 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,280 outcome. Extraordinary. 750 00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:39,240 There's also a very interesting dichotomy because there's an 751 00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:42,240 inversion of reality. You know, you can go there and 752 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,920 you can say to to people, guys, it's not actually like that. 753 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,560 But Germ, he has a video of Jordan Peterson, who's never 754 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,480 been to China, saying that they that they, they, they have 755 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,760 screens, you know, on the streets where they make an 756 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,560 example of people who jaywalk. No, I didn't see that. 757 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,600 Anyway, it doesn't exist, but no, it doesn't exist. 758 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,400 But, but, but it's, it's, it's as Carl says, it's Western 759 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,520 projection, OK. Because the own system is 760 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,680 imploding and they don't like that. 761 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,600 So that like a cat that's caught in a corner, It's it's now it's, 762 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,120 it's what you call it. I've gone blank. 763 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,080 There we go. Yes. 764 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,200 And it's exactly that because it is an inversion of what is true. 765 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,640 Yeah. Yeah, it is. 766 00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,720 It's a total impression. I mean, I obviously what I would 767 00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:40,280 dearly love to do is, is be able to further substantiate my point 768 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,560 of view and my recent observations by spending a lot 769 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,400 more time there. And, and yes, I say particularly 770 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,800 there because it it does not seem to be. 771 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,800 Yeah, well, sorry. No, I mean, well, OK, Yeah, fine 772 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,600 here too. But the the point is that whilst 773 00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,200 China is at the moment such a, a vector for this, you know, it is 774 00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:04,600 a type of cognitive dissonance really, and diversion, 775 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,080 distraction, all this sort of thing. 776 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,720 It would be terrific to be able to build up a substantial body 777 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,520 of evidence. And I know, you know, to Mike's 778 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,240 point, obviously, really you can't speak about a place until 779 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:22,440 you have lived there because of course you're never as a 780 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,160 visitor, doesn't matter how long you spend there, you're never 781 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,800 going to be subject to the same sort of influences upon your 782 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,360 life until, until you, you know, especially if you're sort of 783 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,840 paying tax, owning property, how you're employed, all those sorts 784 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,120 of things. So, so clearly they, they exert 785 00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:41,240 particular effect on you, but nonetheless, I think the more 786 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,760 one sees, the more one travels, the more one speaks to people 787 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,400 because that's it. You know, you, you just never 788 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,240 know what sort of what kind of a conversation you're going to 789 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:49,760 unlock. And that, and actually that 790 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,520 going back to what we were describing at the beginning in 791 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,920 terms of rubbing shoulders with people who work in a totally 792 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,720 different industry from what it is that we're doing. 793 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,080 But actually the, the mutual interest in one another's 794 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,120 business was, was, was fascinating. 795 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,000 And I, I, I, you know, I, I derive great pleasure from that. 796 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,760 And, and I, and I think, you know, gosh, how bizarre to think 797 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,840 that even in, even in the United Kingdom, it's still slightly, it 798 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,840 can be slightly awkward to describe, you know, working for 799 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,640 UK column it depending on who you are talking to and sort of 800 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,680 putting out there what it is you do do and how you, how you frame 801 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,600 that in order that you don't get an immediate sort of knee jerk 802 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,840 negative reactions. It's a little bit tricky, but 803 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,680 actually this discussing this in China of all places, you know, 804 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,640 irony upon irony was very straightforward and people, 805 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:47,400 people absolutely got utterly what it is that we do and why we 806 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,640 do it and why it's important. So anyway, well, I mean, you 807 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:56,320 know, we, we could go on, but no, I mean, in as objective a 808 00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:01,120 sense as I can conjure, it was a totally fascinating, but but 809 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,760 also overwhelmingly positive experience. 810 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,720 And I, and I just reiterate the point that I'm this is not just 811 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,240 comparing China with the United Kingdom. 812 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,920 This is comparing China with many, many other places in the 813 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,000 world. And I think it, it, it's the 814 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,160 most populous country on Earth. It is one of the biggest. 815 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,440 I mean, why would we not talk about it? 816 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,600 Also, it's history, I think. I think the other thing there's, 817 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,120 I think really there must under the surface be to an extent A 818 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,120 terrific sense of perhaps jealousy because you see what 819 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,600 what China has. I mean, it would, it would 820 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:45,920 appear to be deliberate, but what China has managed to do, 821 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:51,160 even at this stage in the 21st century is, is absolutely retain 822 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:56,760 control over its customs and, and it's yes, exactly. 823 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,640 And, and that funnily enough, I've, I've actually come from 824 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:05,160 the Maritime Museum in Hong Kong, which gives a fascinating 825 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:10,800 account of the early days of maritime exploration in China 826 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,400 and then the conscious decision in the 15th century that it 827 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:22,480 would not be pursued and it. So whilst that effectively left 828 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:28,440 the door open for for the Western powers as they came to 829 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:34,720 be, to take over great swathes of the, the world via trade and 830 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:41,200 you know, stick or rifle or however you you want to describe 831 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:49,440 it, what it allowed was for China to develop inside 832 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,240 internally, you know, in it's own way, effectively unfussed by 833 00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:54,680 the rest of the world. OK. 834 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,680 And and then that was controlled to a, to a greater degree 835 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,320 through having just Canton as the trade, you know, the sole 836 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,240 trade route. And of course the language being 837 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,600 relatively speaking and still today very inaccessible. 838 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,600 Whereas of course for the, for the, for the English language 839 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,120 and the British Empire, it's been absolutely, completely the 840 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,320 other way round. And again, not just trade, but 841 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,440 but Expeditionary warfare, intervention, whatever you 842 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,680 whatever you describe it as. And look at the things that 843 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,040 people are complaining about now in terms of migration in 844 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,800 particular. And this is This is why I think, 845 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,000 you know, Mike just going back into why he was talking about 846 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:46,240 China from, from when he was, but I think this pertains to all 847 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:47,800 the countries that we do talk about. 848 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:52,960 Yes, we are UK column news, but a massive part of first of all, 849 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,240 the UK's history has been meddling in the affairs of 850 00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:59,880 people all over the world. And therefore the, the, the 851 00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:05,920 backlash of that is, is exactly what people are identifying now. 852 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,640 So it is completely relevant that we talk about other parts 853 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,680 of the world. But that is a, that is a 854 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,040 critical distinction between certainly over that period of 855 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,280 history anyway, between the way in which the British well, 856 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:26,400 Empire as it became executed, it's aims compared with China, 857 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,040 which, OK, you might say that's, that's in a way just a different 858 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:33,040 point on the timeline in that China, I think I I would still 859 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,320 regard really as as an empire rather than a country. 860 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,320 You know, we talk about Xinjiang, for example, being 861 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,560 totally different sort of ethnically, culturally, 862 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:46,760 whatever, because at at the time that that landmass became known 863 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,520 as China, obviously the rest of the world was doing different 864 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,040 things. So, so anyway, that's sort of 865 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:57,000 splitting hairs, but but it, it is, I think it is really, really 866 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,360 significant. So as I say, the sort of 867 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:00,760 jealousy aspect that the United Kingdom now, you know, for a lot 868 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,560 of people, Oh God, migration's the big issue, digital ID 869 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:09,800 migration's the big issue, sort of either passive or very active 870 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,440 racism or, or this, that and the other. 871 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,320 But in fact, you look at why it's happened then it, it does 872 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:21,960 make a clear delineation between what people in the United 873 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,280 Kingdom and from the United Kingdom are doing compared with 874 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,200 China and, and how, how that's how the fruits of these two 875 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,400 different parts are sort of being being born today. 876 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:37,520 I just want to point out also that even though I've been 877 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,800 called a Chinese China show or CCP show, all those wonderful 878 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,960 terms which don't really matter all that much, I still love 879 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:51,520 living in South Africa. And I don't know why I would be 880 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:56,040 labeled these things. If I if I say guys, they are 881 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,360 good and bad things. I think China is incredible. 882 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,760 Let me tell you something. You know, if we sitting a low 883 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,960 bar living on the African continent, it doesn't get much 884 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:10,480 lower than that. And I would love the past 30 885 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,240 years for us to have imported some of the stuff that that the 886 00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,080 Chinese government did with its own country. 887 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,440 How, how it not everything. I'm not a fan of mass 888 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:28,040 surveillance at all, but they but there is something that they 889 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,560 did right, a bunch of things that did right and a pile of 890 00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,360 things that we did wrong. And we still live in a 891 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,880 completely broken system here where their system is 892 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,360 flourishing. So they are good things to to 893 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,120 learn, and they certainly are bad things that you don't want 894 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,680 to learn. Now I think that's a completely 895 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:54,000 neutral and reasonable approach. I think so. 896 00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,400 I mean, I think, I think to take the position that that China is 897 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,800 a fascinating place, but they're not going for it. 898 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,680 That doesn't necessarily mean that you want to live there. 899 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:06,680 Live there. I, yeah, I, I, I don't think I 900 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,320 do want to live in China. But. 901 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,920 But I think a very interesting point to make is that or an 902 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,120 important point to make, whilst I have no desire to go and live 903 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,040 in China, I do firmly believe that if I did live in China, I 904 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:25,560 would be treated with respect and I would be treated as in 905 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,400 effect, perhaps rather strange, equal. 906 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:36,320 Whereas I was talking to a couple of Hong Kongers, Chinese 907 00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:42,080 Hong Kongers last night who are in their 70s with close 908 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,680 connections to sort of the United Kingdom, British society 909 00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,640 and what not. And it was very interesting. 910 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,800 One point that was made to me was that they would absolutely 911 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,240 not ever move to the West, but not to the UK, particularly 912 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:03,040 because they would be treated like in, in their words, 4th 913 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,320 class citizens. And I thought that was, I mean, 914 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,640 I, I didn't disagree with it. I absolutely agreed with it 915 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,520 because this is where this is exactly where people have been 916 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,400 brainwashed, indoctrinated, radicalised, all the rest of it. 917 00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:20,920 But but what an indictment to, you know, and it goes back to 918 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,240 this whole thing of, of where we started the sort of infighting 919 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,600 or backstabbing or whatever it is with the negativity and it 920 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:35,360 and it's, it's the same, the the loss of respecting one another 921 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:40,600 is, you know, it's a disgrace. And, and we should be, we should 922 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,680 be learning or relearning from people that still hold that 923 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,320 dear. So I find that a very, very 924 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:47,200 interesting comment. I. 925 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,520 Mean, but we're only just starting. 926 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,200 Yeah. But but Charles, that's that, 927 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,720 that is the point, isn't it? Because because whatever, 928 00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:05,440 whatever we're experiencing at the column is, is, is indicative 929 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,560 of the types of conversations that are going on right across 930 00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,520 British society and Western society as a whole at the 931 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:15,240 moment. And because there is all this 932 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:21,320 bickering and infighting and, and hate for each other that 933 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,000 that is part of the, that's part of the collapse that we are 934 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,720 experiencing. I mean, you know, I, I said, I 935 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,440 said on the, on Wednesdays extra, I mentioned the fact 936 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,160 that, you know, people are, no matter what the, what the regime 937 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,400 is, that they're, that they're living under people. 938 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,600 The people that I've met in China are, are optimistic that 939 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,800 they, they enjoy life. And, and you look around, you 940 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,040 look around the cities and you know, Chongqing itself, the 941 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,560 actual city has what, 1012 million people in it and the, 942 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,800 and the region around it as whatever the number is, Charles 943 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,440 thinks 30. It, it, it, it doesn't matter. 944 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,280 The population density is huge within that city. 945 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,800 And, but the streets are clean. There are no potholes in the 946 01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,680 roads. The the the the infrastructure 947 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,280 works. And so on now is that because 948 01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:21,120 that this is where they are in their, in their, the cycle of 949 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:23,760 things at the moment in the sense that, that because that 950 01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,920 city has has massively exploded in terms of, of development in 951 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,120 the last 10 to 20 years. Everything's new, everything's 952 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,760 fresh, everything's exciting. And, and maybe that's part of 953 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,800 it. Whereas in the UK, we are coming 954 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,680 to the end of a cycle. And, and so, you know, just just 955 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,520 the, the organization, the money that it would take to fix the 956 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:48,400 potholes in the road is, is going to be huge. 957 01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,640 But we're not going to, we're not going to achieve that with 958 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,040 this constant bickering and infighting, whether that's at 959 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,600 the political level, at the top of society or, or at the, at the 960 01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,720 small minded level, at, at the most local, local base. 961 01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,080 So somehow we've got to, we've got to take a step back as a 962 01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,600 society and, and look around at ourselves and that and look at 963 01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,520 ourselves and, and, and work out is this, is this how we really 964 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:18,480 how we want to live? And that, that is going to be a 965 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,360 difficult thing for us to do. But if we don't do it, we're 966 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,800 only heading and you know, the direction of travel is important 967 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,560 here and we're heading in the wrong direction. 968 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,160 So that has to be changed somehow. 969 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,800 Yeah, it does. I mean, I think the, the 970 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,560 positivity and, and the energy, I mean, I, we were, we were 971 01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:37,840 together. I mean, we said it wasn't 972 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,400 isolated. But my, one of the things that 973 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:46,080 absolutely stuck out as such a contrast was seeing teams of 974 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,160 workmen, Rd. builders or whatever and they were all 975 01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:53,520 working. And to, to anyone who's involved 976 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,920 in that sort of trade listening, I'm, I'm sorry if this causes 977 01:01:55,920 --> 01:02:00,960 offence, but seriously, find me a team of Rd. workers or 978 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,800 whatever in the United Kingdom where any more than one person 979 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,080 is working at any time, 12 blokes standing around smoking, 980 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,840 one bloke working. That is, that is how it's done. 981 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,680 And, and in China, I mean this, I know this sounds silly, but 982 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,120 honestly, if, if, if you could tell a story about a country 983 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:17,760 with one anecdote, this would be it. 984 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,520 Every single man, Jack, they, they just got on with it. 985 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:25,160 And I do believe, for whatever reason, I'm not, I can't explain 986 01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,200 the psychology of that. I cannot tell you why that's the 987 01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,560 case. But I do definitely believe that 988 01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:34,160 if that's the way stuff worked in the United Kingdom, life 989 01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,840 would be very, very different. All right, we are running out of 990 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,400 time. So this week was China, next 991 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:47,280 week Iran. Yeah, but why not? 992 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,000 Well, there we go. I mean, I'll tell you what, as a 993 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,200 as a as a preview, you know, as much as as much as people get 994 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,360 riled about China, I mean, the other thing, the other thing 995 01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,840 that that UK column gets continuously hammered for is, 996 01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,720 you know, you, you love Muslims. Yeah. 997 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,200 Well, actually I do. And the reason for that is that 998 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:10,200 having been to well over 15, largely Muslim, or at least, you 999 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,360 know, countries that are sort of based on some sort of Muslim 1000 01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,760 heritage, I have never experienced greater hospitality 1001 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,320 anywhere in the world. And as an example, an absolutely 1002 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,840 brilliant story driving in Uzbekistan. 1003 01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,240 Sorry, wrong. Kyrgyzstan, absolutely in the 1004 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:26,960 middle of the nowhere with with somebody, I can't remember if he 1005 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:29,920 was a taxi driver or whatnot. The car broke down, right. 1006 01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,000 Great. OK, sort of getting late. 1007 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,280 No one there. So what happened? 1008 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,480 The next car that passed us drove us all to the first house 1009 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,920 that we came to. The driver of the vehicle, I was 1010 01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,400 with a friend, the driver took us to the house, said to the 1011 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,720 people who owned the house, here you go, they'll stay with you 1012 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,160 tonight because I've got to go and fix the car. 1013 01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,440 He then went back with the person who'd stopped, went off 1014 01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,800 to wherever, got spares, came back anyway. 1015 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:06,800 So with absolutely no questions asked, two of us were taken into 1016 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:12,320 this house with open arms, fed, provided with a bed. 1017 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,480 I mean, absolutely. Can you imagine that happening 1018 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,640 in Suffolk? No. 1019 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:24,720 So, you know, so so why, why are we so determined to do the oh, 1020 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:26,600 look over there, they're all bad. 1021 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:28,360 Projection. Nonsense. 1022 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,480 Projection. All right, so guys, there we go. 1023 01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,760 All right, nice chatting. Charles, are you back home next 1024 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,600 week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1025 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:39,840 yeah. Back to the. 1026 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,600 Right, cool man. I'll check you guys as. 1027 01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,360 Well, yeah, you absolutely are back to the rig. 1028 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,200 Yeah, stealing myself for the return. 1029 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,200 Yeah, yeah. All right. 1030 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:51,200 Cheers guys. OK, thanks. 1031 01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,280 Thanks. OK, Bye. 1032 01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:52,600 Bye. Bye.