1 00:00:09,010 --> 00:00:11,570 Well, hello, Peter. Peter Taylor. 2 00:00:11,570 --> 00:00:14,690 I've got the joy of interviewing Peter Taylor today. 3 00:00:15,250 --> 00:00:19,050 Now, Peter, I've known for a very long time, actually over 10 4 00:00:19,050 --> 00:00:22,410 years. And he is an environmental 5 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:27,890 scientist and has worked for the United Nations at some point and 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,840 has got 2 Oxford degrees. He's an amazing man, has worked 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,680 for all sorts of people over the over the years. 8 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:40,880 And he in I, I heard about Peter when he he wrote a book called 9 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,840 Chill. What year was that, Peter? 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,040 It was published in 2009. 2000 that's, that's when I actually 11 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:52,160 came to live here in Glastonbury and you live locally and I read 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,680 read the book and it was about global cooling, which was really 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:01,360 something in 2009. And of course you, you know, 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,000 your, your colleagues didn't really take that book very well, 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,600 did they? They they kind of you got ousted 16 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,920 from from the whole, the whole thing with with with climate 17 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:16,240 from establishments like the UN. So tell us about that. 18 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,320 What happened? Yeah, well, my colleagues in a 19 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:22,160 sense were the environmental movement itself. 20 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,480 Since the mid 70s, I'd been working on issues of ocean 21 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,680 pollution, atmospheric pollution, trying to stop 22 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,480 certain bad things happening, a lot to do with toxic industries, 23 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,600 nuclear power and so forth. And I'd, I'd never looked at the 24 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,920 climate science as such. So all the institutes worldwide 25 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,920 were saying, you know, carbon dioxide is the main cause of 26 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,680 what we're seeing in terms of global warming. 27 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,560 And at at that time, before I published Chill, I'd been 28 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,320 involved in working with government, the Department of 29 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,960 Trade and Industry and Countryside Agency on how to 30 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,160 integrate renewable energy into the environment. 31 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,880 The things I care about such as biodiversity, community, rural 32 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,360 communities, especially upland mountain communities. 33 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,920 When I looked at what was being advocated in the year 2000 by 34 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:33,560 the Royal Commission and that was only with like 50% reduction 35 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,200 of emissions, it wasn't net 0. I looked at, I thought this is 36 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,080 this is going to have incredible impact on the countryside, solar 37 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,120 panels, wind turbines, more new. It was a godsend to the nuclear 38 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:53,400 industry, biofuels, hydro schemes and we couldn't supply 39 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,480 all our renewable energy from Britain. 40 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,720 So we were bound to go and exploit other areas which I can 41 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,520 talk about. And so I was still thinking 42 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,400 positively that the best thing to do is find a way of 43 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,120 integrating it. So I designed a tool by which 44 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,200 communities could decide for themselves. 45 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,560 So it was a like a computer landscape very similar to the 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,480 one that they would be in. We did a western, a Midlands and 47 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,760 an eastern landscape. And you could choose what you 48 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,520 would, how you would answer the integration of renewable energy 49 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,320 so that people were using their energy locally, fundamentally 50 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,160 and sustainably. And that was a three year 51 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,040 project. It was funded by the government. 52 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,000 It was my design. I helped the help of some 53 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,400 incredible computer engineers who could visualise and and work 54 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,920 with, I'd seen with my own children how they were in 55 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,080 fantasy landscapes. And I thought, wow, you know, 56 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,800 you can fly into them. And if you've you've seen these 57 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,880 computer games, couldn't we do the same for educating 58 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,360 communities about their own landscape and what they could do 59 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,360 and so on? So it was quite a sophisticated 60 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,760 project and and we were blessed by some very, very good minds on 61 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,720 the job. And that took me to about 2003 62 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,279 and I was actually sitting on a government committee of 63 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,240 community renewables. How do you empower communities? 64 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:23,880 Where can they go for information? 65 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,360 Can we give them any money? And so I think we had about 66 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:32,520 £1,000,000 on the table. So I, I was well on board and, 67 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,840 and given my record on ocean pollution, particularly working 68 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:42,440 with Greenpeace, I was their chief advocate at the UN for 69 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,120 many years on ocean pollution issues. 70 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:49,880 And eventually the UN realising that they got it wrong. 71 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,640 And that's an important thing for what we, what we can talk 72 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,040 about because all the institutions of science at that 73 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,520 time thought you could dilute stuff, put it in the ocean and 74 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,960 forget about it. Oh, not entirely. 75 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,280 You would monitor just in case you got it wrong and if anything 76 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:10,840 went wrong, you could stop whatever you were doing. 77 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,720 Well, yes and no, because you could also end up with stuff in 78 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,280 the atmosphere or the oceans which you can't do anything 79 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:23,800 about, such as CFCS and we nearly lost the ozone layer. 80 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,600 So science makes a lot of errors and those errors are not 81 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,160 publicised, they rather cover them up. 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:40,880 And CFCS in the atmosphere is a bit of an exception because they 83 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,000 they regard that as one of their success stories. 84 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,280 They quickly stopped the production of CFCS once they 85 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,400 realised it was destroying the ozone layer. 86 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,800 What's generally not known is that science itself nearly 87 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,720 missed the whole thing. They dismissed the first bit of 88 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,600 data from the Antarctic that the ozone hole was happening, and it 89 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,280 was only pressure from a few scientists below who managed to 90 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:08,560 get it up on the agenda. But in the years before that, 91 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,600 they were advertising chlorofluorocarbon as something 92 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,120 you can clean your wash, you could do your washing up in it. 93 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,080 It's totally non toxic. And of course, they didn't think 94 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,640 far enough. So I'd been educated in the 95 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:27,120 limitations of computer models, one of which had been you can 96 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,080 dump nuclear waste to the bottom of the ocean and we'll track it 97 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,280 and, and we know where it's going and monitoring and all of 98 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,400 that. Well, I examined all of that 99 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,120 very carefully and realised that this was a, in a way an entree 100 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,560 into the ocean for some very toxic stuff. 101 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,600 They wanted to just drop at the bottom. 102 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,120 And so we would analyse that. And I, I had a lot of support 103 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,640 within government as well as within Greenpeace and we were 104 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,160 able to penetrate the whole structure of the modelling and 105 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,520 criticise it, bring it before the UN and then the UN 106 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,320 eventually saying look, we realise that you're right, will 107 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,040 you come in and help us? So at one point I was consultant 108 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,520 to the International Maritime Organisation coming in to 109 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,840 rewrite their legislation such that these practises couldn't 110 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,680 happen. And in parallel with that, I set 111 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,040 up a team which was engaged in looking at technology and what's 112 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,880 the clean production strategy so you don't produce toxic material 113 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,160 that you have to get rid of or store or discharge or whatever. 114 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,480 It's called clean production strategies. 115 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,280 There's a book on it. I have a chapter in it. 116 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,280 Again, some incredible brains came in on that, you know, one 117 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,040 of whom, Tim Jackson, is now professor of sustainability at 118 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,720 Surrey University. So there's been a big shift in 119 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,720 thinking, in scientific thinking, and actually there was 120 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,760 quite a lot of opposition from the scientists. 121 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,320 They say, oh, this is political, it's not scientific. 122 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,200 No, no, it's scientific. It's about the limits of your 123 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,760 scientific knowledge and how you deal with your errors. 124 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,120 So that was my background in schooling until I realised that 125 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,280 trying to integrate renewable energy, trying to run an 126 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,760 industrial country such as Britain, which is very small on 127 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,720 renewable energy would just destroy so much of what I cared 128 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,640 about. And that that landscapes, 129 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,480 mountains. I'm a Mountaineer, you know, but 130 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,080 also community and biodiversity. There are lots of implications. 131 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:49,200 I mean for example, we can't grow proper biofuels here to run 132 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,720 our 10% EU mandated biofuel in your petrol or diesel tank. 133 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,720 We went to Colombia and colluded with the clearing of 400,000 134 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,680 hectares, 800,000 acres, nearly 1,000,000 acres of land, 135 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,480 clearing it of people and putting in palm oil plantations 136 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,840 to get bio biodiesel. Same thing happening in Brazil 137 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:23,080 with ethanol, hydropower. Again, what happens with 138 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,200 hydropower is the people with the resource, Southeast Asia, 139 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,040 Iceland and so on, they desecrate their own wilderness 140 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,160 by damming the rivers, generating carbon free 141 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,520 electricity. Then they attract huge 142 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,200 industries like aluminium smelting and so on. 143 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,880 So all of that's going on and it's a big Malay. 144 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,720 And so I highlighted all of that in my research. 145 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:55,520 I, I spent three years going deeply into climate change and 146 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,120 the models and, and I was interested in how long have we 147 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,480 got? I was quite shocked to find how 148 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,120 uncertain the science was. There were key elements which 149 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,840 you can spot when you know how computers are programmed and you 150 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,280 go, well, why did you choose that parameter and not this one? 151 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,960 And so. Do you think it was, excuse me, 152 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,760 I mean, do you think it was a lot, a lot of reliance on 153 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,720 modelling and and this modelling was was flawed because it's 154 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,240 actually it's, it's not, it's not, it's not really a, a stable 155 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,360 model is. It to the the problem with the 156 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,600 with the models is that they have a certain lifetime when 157 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,560 they're generating some kind of conclusion. 158 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:45,080 Then you have the policy people, governments in history and they 159 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,760 come in and they say, no, we we need certainty. 160 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,240 You'll talk about maybe this, maybe that. 161 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,800 So the model is then say, well, that's really difficult to give 162 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,080 you ZT. We'll give you our best shot. 163 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,440 And that's usually an average. You know, they've got very 164 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:05,480 different projections. And then you have what I called 165 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,680 in the old days of the ocean pollution issues, a prior 166 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:13,000 commitment. You have a prior commitment to 167 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,280 that model. And then when new data comes in 168 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,040 which actually would invalidate the model, they criticised the 169 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:24,840 data. They don't go to look at their 170 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,400 model. Now was was the IPCC then when, 171 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,120 When did the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on 172 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,960 Climate Change, were they involved in any of this? 173 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,360 At the very beginning, yes. The, the first meeting was 174 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:45,640 probably around 9596 when the UN's Framework Convention on 175 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,400 Climate Change was set up. And at the time I, I, I had 176 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:56,280 moved on from ocean issues to forestry, wildlife, countryside 177 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,760 issues and so on, which were more of a passion than trying to 178 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,680 stop the bad guys doing stupid things. 179 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,920 And what I didn't realise is one of my colleagues in the US who'd 180 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,000 worked with me very closely on the ocean issues, we used to do 181 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:15,600 a tandem act at the UN because he he represented a tiny Pacific 182 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,720 island at all. But he had one vote and the US 183 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,160 had one vote. So he was not their favourite 184 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,680 person. And the US was behind a lot of 185 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:29,760 dumping operations and so on. So I kind of lost touch a little 186 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,160 bit with him. And when the publishers asked, 187 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,120 can we have a professor who will endorse your analysis? 188 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,480 So I said, well, yeah, contact Jackson Davis in in California. 189 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,520 And what I didn't realise is he'd gone on to work on the 190 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,560 climate issue and he'd helped to set up the framework convention 191 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,360 and he'd Co wrote who was a leading author of something 192 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,760 called the Kyoto Protocol. So he was right there on, you 193 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,880 know, the whole, the whole narrative as as indeed I had 194 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,240 been. So I took my analysis to him and 195 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,080 I just said, look, Jackson, this is where I've come to. 196 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,120 He said, oh, you can't possibly be right Peter. 197 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,160 You know, it's like the whole world. 198 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,960 I said no, no, not not the whole world. 199 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,040 There are a number of scientists who disagree. 200 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,080 They're just being marginalised. They're not being listened to. 201 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,120 The same story we had with the ocean issues. 202 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,440 So he's a little sub story to this is that when I published 203 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:40,720 Chill and Jackson endorsed the book and said these questions 204 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,720 have got to be answered now, the main issue was not actually 205 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,640 global cooling, although that was a potential that was about 206 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,280 to happen. It's taking a while, but there 207 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,240 is the potential for a natural cycle, which peaks around now 208 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,000 and declines around now. So it's we're at the peak and 209 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,000 it's going to decline. And on the on the back of that, 210 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,800 everyone says I was prophesying global global cooling. 211 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:18,720 But when when I was talking about that, I wasn't really 212 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,040 prophesying global cooling, it was like, yeah, that's that's 213 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,760 potentially going to happen unless we get an ocean cycle 214 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:31,720 called El Nino super El Nino peaks at the end of a period 215 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,400 when there's very little global warming. 216 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,760 And, and you can draw a line like that, which is completely 217 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,120 false thing to do because this is a natural bump. 218 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,880 So that's happened. But two bumps all in a row is, 219 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,000 is almost unprecedented. So we've got very unpredictable, 220 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,840 unnatural, but very warm conditions at the moment. 221 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,960 So everyone was saying, Oh well, Peter Taylor, what's wrong? 222 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,720 But what people don't realise is that when you're measuring 223 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,440 temperature at the surface or in the atmosphere, you're actually 224 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,160 measuring heat leaving the planet. 225 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,360 Heat is stored and the only place it's stored is in the 226 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,600 ocean. So the ocean stores the heat and 227 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,880 the only source of that heat is the sun. 228 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,600 And it's the sunlight called shockwave radiation that can 229 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,080 penetrate down to 102 hundred metres. 230 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,640 It gives all its energy to the surface layer of the ocean. 231 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:31,720 The Ocean's 4000 metres deep mostly, and it just stores this 232 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,800 energy in the top 200 metres, but it shuffles it around. 233 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,160 It shuffles the heat around in currents and releases it in 234 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,280 cycles. So most of my book is about 235 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,880 those cycles and the release of heat from the oceans and which 236 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,400 says this is what's happening now. 237 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,360 But they cannot put that into the models. 238 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,200 Models have their limitations and and that was my speciality, 239 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,880 so I understood why they couldn't put it in. 240 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,240 But on top of that they just ignored all the cycles with 241 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,920 search. Yeah. 242 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,400 Could I ask you quickly, have you, you must know Valentina 243 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,880 Zorkova because she has a similar, she's written some some 244 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,040 peer reviewed papers and she's she's on the whole global 245 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,400 cooling thing. What do you think about her 246 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,520 work? Does it do you agree with it or 247 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,480 do you what do you feel? We have been in communication 248 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:36,000 and generally there was a smaller group of, of solar 249 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:42,000 scientists like Zarqova who think we're about to enter a 250 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,560 Maunder minimum or they, they, they talk about a, a grand solar 251 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,680 minimum, which at the moment isn't happening. 252 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,440 There is a decline, but it's not dropping very severely. 253 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:03,160 And most of the NASA scientists and, and a good few others don't 254 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,520 expect that. And actually, when we the the 255 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:12,680 little sub story was after the publication of my book, ITN News 256 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,880 have a documentary section and they phoned up and, and it was 257 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,240 the science correspondent, I think it was Rob Wilson. 258 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,400 And they said, oh, we'd like to do a feature on your work. 259 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,400 I said, oh wow, you know, great. One man against the world kind 260 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,480 of thing. And but it's television. 261 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,240 So we had the first meeting and they said, can you make it 262 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,840 televisual? So I said, yeah, fly me to 263 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Greenland. I've always wanted to go to 264 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,400 Greenland, but David Attenborough had just suddenly 265 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,960 come off the fence and he's pointing to the glaciers falling 266 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,640 into the sea. I'll stand where he stood, 267 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,080 right? But instead of pointing to the 268 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,480 glaciers, I'll point to the ground and which is just 269 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,960 uncovering because of the thaw. Viking graves. 1000 years ago 270 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,520 the Vikings were farming on Greenland. 271 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,520 Then the cycle changed as it was peaking around 1000 years ago. 272 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,280 Cycle changes goes down. They had to leave. 273 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,720 So it's like at the same time White Stalk who are just now 274 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,240 colonising Kent after an absence since the little Ice Age. 275 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,800 They were nesting on Edinburgh Cathedral in the year 1100 or 276 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,240 1200 or whatever. So as an ecologist I'm looking 277 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,560 at, well, these cycles, you know, they're very real. 278 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,720 So we were going to go, go and produce this programme, half an 279 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,760 hour documentary. It would have done wonders for 280 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:51,000 the sale of my book. And I got a call after about 3 281 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,440 meetings saying, sorry Peter, you come in, we'll explain, we 282 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,200 can't go ahead. We got pressure from above. 283 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,560 We call them the Goreites. Al Gore had set up a media 284 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,120 empire and they had power and influence. 285 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,440 So and their science correspondent was so disgusted. 286 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,800 He said, I'm resigning and this is a science journalist. 287 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,920 And he said, Peter, what do you need for your work? 288 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,320 I said, well, I have no budget, but I really need to go to the 289 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,240 United States and talk to my colleague Jackson Davis. 290 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,240 He's got resources. Here's your effort, he said out 291 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,120 of his own pocket. So I hightailed it to my friend 292 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,960 who was living in Colorado and on the hill outside Boulder. 293 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:43,520 The city he lived in is the US main laboratory for computer 294 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,120 simulation of the globe. It's called the National Centre 295 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:52,440 for Atmospheric Research and there was also a university 296 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,160 specialist there, Colorado University, who was a specialist 297 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,680 to how the oceans release heat. So I wanted to talk to him and 298 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,800 we had five hours, incredible talk, great conversation, well 299 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,800 respected. And then we went up the hill to 300 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,160 the National Centre government operation. 301 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,200 It was a bit like something out of James Bond. 302 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:18,320 And in comes the chief modeller puts his boot, his feet up on 303 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320 the table. Cowboy boots dressed in denim 304 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,960 from head to foot. 6 foot 6 tall, big hat. 305 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,720 Jerry Meal, one of the top international modellers feeds 306 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,040 into the IPCC that what can I do for you guys? 307 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,120 So I lay out my data, which was also in chill said look, this 308 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,040 data does not support your model. 309 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,400 What the data actually shows is just at the time when the world 310 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:51,360 is warming, the clouds are thinning and there's more energy 311 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,840 coming into the surface or warming the ocean. 312 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,480 The oceans then release it, much more energy, about three times 313 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,360 as much as your carbon dioxide model. 314 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,000 So he's doesn't figure, you know, you've got to answer this, 315 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,280 what's going on? And at the time NASA were going, 316 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,560 well, the clouds could be a feedback, you know, carbon 317 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,520 dioxide thins the clouds. Well, you know, there's not many 318 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,200 people going to go. Yeah, right. 319 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:24,960 You know, so this was still the question land and then I've I 320 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160 feel this pressure, the IGN story. 321 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:34,360 But more than that, up until then, I I I was like a hero of 322 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:36,440 the environmental movement. My whole family had been 323 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,240 involved. We'd we'd climbed chimney stacks 324 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:40,800 some of the most mostly I brothers. 325 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,480 We'd walked into desert nuclear testing sites, boarded dump 326 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,040 ships. You know, it, it, it was, it was 327 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,880 like a yeah, we, we, we, we were well regarded. 328 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,440 We all bought into it. I mean, I, I, I did transition 329 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,600 town training once and I took the whole family to see 330 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,600 Inconvenient Truth, you know, and to see, realise you've just 331 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,080 come to this moment. But honestly, that's that 332 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:11,160 respect evaporated overnight. And that was the biggest shock. 333 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,760 I it's like, well, hang on a minute, I was vilified. 334 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:21,320 Some people were very rude and I was portrayed as all kinds of 335 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,360 things that I'm not, you know, like right wing. 336 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:28,080 I'm not right wing and in league with the oil industry. 337 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,360 You know, I once turned down a contract with the oil industry 338 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,720 and, and this was, this was a shock. 339 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,400 I, I suddenly realised, wow, these people are not the kind of 340 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,760 people I grew up with in the environmental movement. 341 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,240 Even the Greenpeace people, it's all changed. 342 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,880 They're professional, yes, but they're, they've all got another 343 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,560 agenda. And, and it's like, I mean, my 344 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,000 good friend David Taylor, who lives not far away, he was a 345 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,480 green during the time when we were creating the Ecology Party. 346 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,480 It helped to create that. Then we were advising it not to 347 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,040 become a party and not to become a green political thing because. 348 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,040 The That's where it all went wrong, Wasn't it the green? 349 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,200 Because. When it changed in the ecology 350 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,480 to the green parties when I. Hand of of of of political 351 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280 parties. I'm a fundamental Democrat. 352 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,400 I believe in empowering parliament, parliamentary 353 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,600 committees, the whole deal and there are some good examples of 354 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,520 that globally. We are not one. 355 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,600 We could have been. What we've seen is the gradual 356 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:43,280 erosion of proper democracy. I mean, for me, the, the, the 357 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,720 key moment was when Andrew Bridging, A Conservative MP, 358 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,760 stood up in Parliament just to say something doesn't add up 359 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,680 about all these vaccines, you know, and, and the COVID story. 360 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,280 Just a question. And there were maybe a dozen MPs 361 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,560 present, 6 on either side. One of them walks over to the 362 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,320 Labour benches that I think the Tories were in power and and 363 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,880 whispers in their ear and they all walk out. 364 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,600 They don't even listen to what he has to say, just the minister 365 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,720 who has to respond. Wow I had no idea it was so bad. 366 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,520 And since then I've got to know Andrew and and wow, I mean he 367 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,160 was just completely shunted aside overall. 368 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,080 The Tory party disowned him and and So what I've learnt is that 369 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:39,800 there's a media compliance with, in the words of Greater 370 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,160 Thunberg, follow the science. But whose science are they 371 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,760 following? They're following the 372 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,400 institute's and the the the top level in the institute's. 373 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,760 I'm quite convinced there's a little group of politically 374 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:02,160 minded scientists and one can understand it, but that they've 375 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,720 concluded that in order to save the environment you have to 376 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,360 control people's behaviour. It makes sense, of course, 377 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,360 people on mass are doing some very, very stupid things, but 378 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:21,080 what they don't realise is that to control people means you're 379 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,600 moving into. It's called left wing, but it's 380 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,320 not originally left. It's more Stalinist. 381 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,960 It it's it's it's anti democratic. 382 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,920 It's we know what we're doing and we're not going to tell you 383 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,360 because absolutely I. Mean, this whole thing about 384 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,160 left and right is really clouding it all at the moment. 385 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,360 You know, because there is no such thing right now. 386 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,280 You know that it's it's disappeared. 387 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,440 We need a new political language to describe. 388 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,480 Some people call it techno fascism now. 389 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,160 In the early stages of the nuclear movement, anti nuclear 390 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,840 movement in Germany and France, which I was involved in. 391 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,440 You could call them fascists. They would yield troops 392 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,680 protecting their site. Protest was heavily, heavily 393 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,840 dealt with in France. 1 protest that was killed. 394 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:21,160 We were much more gentlemanly in, in, in the UK, but there was 395 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,200 a movement, there was an anti nuclear movement. 396 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,640 Now the nuclear industry's dusting off its worst plans to 397 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:34,240 use plutonium as a fuel, the nuclear weapons issue, the 398 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000 closeness that we are to to nuclear war by accident, which 399 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,200 is more likely the way it will happen. 400 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,000 And there's no anti nuclear movement. 401 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,160 So I I because. You were really big in that, 402 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,040 weren't you? You, you were a big anti 403 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,360 nuclear. You were an activist. 404 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,920 Actually, I was both an activist and a scientist. 405 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,800 I consulted with the International Physicians for the 406 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,200 Prevention of Nuclear War on the effects of nuclear weapons. 407 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,840 You cannot protect the public from a nuclear attack. 408 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:12,360 This is absolute nonsense. First of all, it takes only 409 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,840 about 200 explosions and each side at the moment's got about 410 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,760 3000 weapons and you create a dust cloud that shrouds the 411 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,280 planet and you no crops will grow for three years. 412 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,040 So that's the extinction of a large proportion of humanity. 413 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,280 So it's, it's like it's not even an issue, you know, today. 414 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,880 So I, I'm, I'm in a very strange position. 415 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,520 I've spent my whole life thinking you can reform things, 416 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,040 you can improve democracy, you can talk to science. 417 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,160 I am a scientist. I have total respect for the 418 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,880 scientific method. I've got a forensic mind for 419 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,760 spotting when it's not being applied properly and actually 420 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,680 within the lower rungs of the scientific institutions. 421 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,040 I get loads of invitations to write papers, to go to 422 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,560 conferences. You have to pay and I did a 423 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,000 paper in 2019. I signed up to 1 conference. 424 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,400 My colleague Jackson Davis of what I didn't mention is that 425 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,360 when we had our experience with the National Centre for 426 00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:31,120 Atmospheric Research, he came out, he said Peter, they were 427 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,480 worried. I said to darn right they're 428 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,760 worried. You know, they get billions to 429 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,320 support their morals and to give them their due. 430 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:47,040 That particular group did alter their models a little bit and 431 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,720 and they did actually run a potential more under minimum and 432 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,920 concluded that there would be cooling. 433 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,600 Our own Met Office did the same study but with different 434 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,360 parameters and concluded that even if you had a born dominion, 435 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,880 it wouldn't alter the global warming trajectory. 436 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,120 So that's science for you. But anyway, Jackson said, what 437 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,360 can I do to help? Now he's a, what I would call a 438 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,760 proper scientist. I'm more of a policy person, 439 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,760 forensic mind. He can number crunch, which I 440 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,960 can't do. And so he said what can I do? 441 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,160 I said analyse the the I score data. 442 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,720 Let's show them that these cycles exist. 443 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,520 We know they exist and you can see them in the I score data. 444 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,240 But nobody's actually proven that scientifically. 445 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,600 They, they say, oh, it's too noisy, the data's too noisy. 446 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,360 And what it, what they really mean is nobody's going to pay us 447 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,480 to study natural cycles, which is unfortunately true. 448 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,040 So nobody paid us either. But Jackson spent seven years 449 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,120 doing that. And we then produced several 450 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,120 joint papers, properly peer reviewed, properly published, 451 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,520 they don't get cited. So if you've got some awkward 452 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,240 data, they'll ignore it for as long as they can. 453 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,240 But the younger scientists are going, that's a damn good paper. 454 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,480 And that's due to my friend. He's, he's, he's the good, the 455 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,480 good scientific paper writer. So will you, will you come and, 456 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,800 and talk to us? And I thought as soon as I do 457 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,760 the abstract, they'll just invite me, right? 458 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,720 No. And then they they said would 459 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,080 you chair some sessions and be our keynote speaker? 460 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,000 And I thought maybe they're all very young and they want a grey 461 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,840 beard, you know. But no, there were full on 462 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,800 professors present, including I think when the IPCC realised 463 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,800 they were up against some proper opposition. 464 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,280 They sent their top modeller, a very nice guy called Venkat 465 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:55,160 Venkatramalam Ramaswamy and and he's up there on the podium with 466 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,320 his models and everything and I'm able to say Professor 467 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:05,920 Ramaswamy, my work and Jackson David's work and yours are not 468 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,400 compatible. Can you explain why there's no, 469 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,120 there's no cycles in your models? 470 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,840 He says, yes, we don't do cycles very well. 471 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,360 Now, if I'd been in a, if I'd been in a more cantankerous 472 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,880 mood, it was a very friendly meeting. 473 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,680 I'd have said, well, why do you not tell the public that, right. 474 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,800 So he said, come and have lunch. And he's and he's director of 475 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,000 the General Fluid Dynamics Research Laboratory in 476 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,600 Princeton. He said, come, come, come have a 477 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,800 talk with us, you know, And I thought, right, that's what 478 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,800 happened before the UN was open on a scientific level. 479 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,960 I go in there and most importantly, you've got to find 480 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,680 a way for them to save face. Fundamentally, I think I could 481 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,440 do that. And it's like if you trap them 482 00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,040 in a corner, they'll fight you. So it's all right, I'll do that. 483 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,720 But then COVID intervened, which something else that we can talk 484 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,320 about. And, and so that never, that 485 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,640 never happened. And with COVID, well, I did get 486 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:16,240 involved because right at the beginning, I knew from the old 487 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,200 days and old skills that I developed that it was a 488 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,440 bioweapons laboratory source and that it was genetic manipulation 489 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,000 and the whole thing. You could get hold of the 490 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,760 genetic codes right immediately, but they just appeared. 491 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,800 Peking or Beijing covered up the whole, the whole trail. 492 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,640 But for a few months it was available and I got most of what 493 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:47,240 I needed, including access to a collaboration between the former 494 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:53,160 head of MI 6 and a top virology team, the Norwegians actually. 495 00:32:54,120 --> 00:33:00,440 And, And so I thought, oh, OK. I then asked all the leaders of 496 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,520 the political parties and all the editors of the newspapers I 497 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:10,120 copied in. I asked could you raise with the 498 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,720 Prime Minister what advice he received from this, the Secret 499 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,240 Service? They will know what's going on. 500 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,200 Spire Weapons Territory didn't get any replies. 501 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,760 Now, of course, we know very well that the World Health 502 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,680 Organisation was compromised, the scientific journal Nature 503 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,520 was compromised. The head of the Welcome 504 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,680 Foundation, which is the main pharmaceutical funding body in 505 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,640 the world, compromised the pharmaceutical regulators. 506 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,400 Fauci and his crew in the States were compromised and the 507 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,480 virology professors on board, there were about six of them. 508 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,880 We know this because the US Congress has a much better 509 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,560 system of tracking and nailing these people. 510 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,360 And they subpoenaed all the emails from a little group that 511 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,920 met in the Centre for Disease Control. 512 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,400 And there you have it all in the emails where the biology 513 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,960 professors are saying, yeah, we know it came from a lab, but we 514 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,679 can't say that it would compromise science itself. 515 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,520 It would affect our relationships with China. 516 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,080 So we'll say it's highly improbable that it came from a 517 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,560 lab. No. 518 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,760 And that the editor of Nature, top journal, is there to publish 519 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,320 that. Well, when I saw the paper, 520 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,159 which was obviously before all of this was exposed by U.S. 521 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,239 Congress, when I saw that paper, this is rubbish. 522 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,880 How did that ever get published? It's not evidence. 523 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,400 So that's the kind of way I work. 524 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,000 It's forensic. The lessons from COVID are 525 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:55,639 exactly what's happening in climate science. 526 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,000 It's exactly what was happening previously in ocean pollution 527 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,800 issues that by the time you get to up to the top institutions, 528 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:11,320 you're dealing with levels of complicity and collusion and and 529 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,720 indeed the whole, the whole COVID thing, you're dealing with 530 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,600 a conspiracy on the part of these people. 531 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,960 Yes. To cover everything up and, and 532 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:26,680 actually mislead the public and mislead parliaments and the, and 533 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,320 then the whole establishment closes ranks and the media are 534 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,160 complicit. The BBC especially one of my 535 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,160 housemates said the other day, oh, Glastonbury, you know, 536 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,320 there's so many new age people and they don't trust the media. 537 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,520 They've all, they're all on the Internet and it's all 538 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,800 misinformation. And I said, you know, why is 539 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,920 that? They know now they were lied to 540 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,000 by the BBC. The BBC said it, it was just a 541 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,800 normal vaccine. It wasn't genetic manipulation. 542 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,240 It couldn't have come from a lab. 543 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,000 They now know all of that was lies. 544 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,320 The BBC just parroted what they were fed. 545 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,720 And that's the nature of the BBC and the lack of investigative 546 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,800 journalism. No, I've, I can look back, you 547 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,560 know, I can look back 40-50 years and go, wow, we used to 548 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,360 have investigative journalism, We used to have an effective 549 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,200 parliament, parliamentary select committees. 550 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,080 And now we've got an, a Labour government which is 551 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,160 authoritarian. It's just sacked a whole bunch 552 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,680 of good MPs because they were troublesome enough to vote 553 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,280 against taking money from the disabled to fund you know what, 554 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,000 net zero or weapons or nukes or whatever. 555 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,120 You know, it's like they can find 22 billion for a new 556 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:58,560 nuclear programme, but they can't find 4 billion to properly 557 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,560 fund. Absolutely. 558 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,280 I'd like to get onto your book because I, I think it's, you 559 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,560 know, it's important. We have you got a copy to Flash? 560 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:14,240 I do this is Peter's book Climate COVID and Conspiracy, 561 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,920 and I'm, I'm wading my way through it. 562 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,000 And it is, I'm one of those really bad people that look at 563 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,160 the end before beginning. But I have looked. 564 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,080 I've I've looked because a lot of it is scientific, but you you 565 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,760 describe it in a way that I even I can understand, which is 566 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,080 brilliant. The the structure of the book. 567 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,640 I was asked by an activist group in Stroud, by the way, I'd given 568 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,960 a talk if I could could write a follow up to chill. 569 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,440 She's about 15 years old, so that's a big undertaking. 570 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,240 I don't think I'm, I'm really capable of that now, but I have 571 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:56,840 been writing lots of articles and they're not in standard 572 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,360 scientific journals. They're in Caduceus, which is an 573 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,920 environmental health magazine, and New View, which is from the 574 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,480 Steiner stable. So it's quite esoteric. 575 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,560 But also for some reason they had reviewed Chill and they 576 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,920 wanted to follow up. So again, I, I did an update for 577 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,000 them as an article and the editors are very good. 578 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,640 They said, no, no, no, no, lay people will not understand what 579 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,040 you're saying, right. So could you find another way to 580 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,040 say it? So the book consists mostly of 581 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:36,840 articles over the last 10 years, plus an introduction and a link 582 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,520 between the COVID articles, which I did, and, and and the 583 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,960 climate saying what lessons can we learn from the COVID saga, 584 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,040 which are relevant? And you've even got Klaus Schwab 585 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,720 of World Economic Forum fame as saying we should learn from 586 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,560 COVID, right? And he's talking about lockdown, 587 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,400 controlling behaviour, influencing nudging people in 588 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:09,080 the right way, producing fear because people who are in fear 589 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,840 are more easily controlled, suppressing the media, all that 590 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,680 kind of stuff. And, and they, there is a school 591 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,680 of thought that thinks we will only solve the climate crisis by 592 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:28,680 world government. The kind of control and, and 593 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,480 they're not secretive about it that you would experience in 594 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:38,640 China, total surveillance, total control of behaviour, no 595 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,520 spirituality, which from for me is a kind of key element in all 596 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:48,280 of this that we're dealing with the cadre of bureaucrats who 597 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,320 seem to have no heart. There's no wisdom when you're in 598 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,000 a current situation where you've got bioweapons labs building the 599 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,920 next dangerous virus, which will be bird flu. 600 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:07,160 At the moment bird flu only infects directly from mostly 601 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,000 chickens in in sort of high intensity chicken production. 602 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,960 They're always subject to viruses so they're always 603 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,320 subject to vaccines. So it's a big industry and. 604 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,280 The bio weapons people are always looking over the shoulder 605 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,880 of these vaccine people. So have you got any dangerous 606 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,240 viruses that we can work on? So that's what happened at 607 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:32,600 Wuhan. They had a dangerous bat virus, 608 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,840 killed half the miners that had been exposed to it, but it 609 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,720 didn't transfer from minor to minor. 610 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,480 It was from bat to minor. It's the same with bird flu and 611 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,640 doesn't translate from human to human. 612 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,600 So what they do in the labs is say, well, how can we make it 613 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,640 transfer from human to human? That's what happened at Wuhan 614 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,080 and it was there in the science literature. 615 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,760 How do we do that? Here's how we do it. 616 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,640 And and they insert codes for the transmission through human 617 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:07,560 lungs I. Remember, I excuse me for 618 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,520 interrupting you, I remember Richard Desak. 619 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,080 Do you remember Richard Desak, the, the zoologist who was 620 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,040 involved with Fauci and, and the lab in North Carolina in the 621 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,560 university and, and he was bragging. 622 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,120 I've still got the clip bragging on YouTube about how they, they 623 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,280 manipulate things in the lab and they, they, they, they splice 624 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,560 humanised mouse cells with that viruses. 625 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,120 And I just thought, Oh my God, this is, this was before COVID. 626 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,520 And I just thought, my goodness, this is and went afterwards. 627 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,920 I realised that is, that's exactly what it appears they 628 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,200 did. I mean, I know there's some 629 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,960 people that don't believe in viruses, but you know, you have 630 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,560 got people being paid to do this stuff. 631 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,560 So do the viruses exist? They certainly did in the bats, 632 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,120 didn't they? The corona they were. 633 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,320 You get you get memes that go through what's called the truth 634 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,480 movement, and one of them is first viruses don't exist, which 635 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,400 is complete rubbish. And then there's, Oh yeah, they 636 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,600 do exist, but they don't cause disease. 637 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,280 Well, if you unless you've met somebody with a virus that's 638 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,560 actually giving them a really hard time, you can probably 639 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,960 conclude that terrain theory. And the The thing is, there is a 640 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,120 bit of truth here. Take meningitis, for example, 641 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,560 viral meningitis. It's a real killer, but the bug 642 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,240 is there all the time. What happens is that immunity 643 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,400 rises and falls according to stress, according to diet, 644 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,600 according to age. And so we live in a population 645 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,080 that's getting older and older. The the diet leaves a lot to be 646 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,880 desired. And so immunity is very low. 647 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,480 So the first projections of what would happen when this bat virus 648 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,680 was unleashed or escaped were huge. 649 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,640 You know, it'll go through the population like a wildfire 650 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,480 because we have a low immunity group, about 13 million people 651 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,120 whose immunity is compromised. So terrain theory's certainly 652 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,400 got something in it. But coming back to this, you you 653 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,680 don't get a huge lab working on perfecting the transmissibility 654 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:33,520 of one virus so that it will infect a human if they don't 655 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,360 exist, you know, So that's what happened in Wuhan. 656 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,560 Because they did work on that for about 30 years, didn't they? 657 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,840 They were 30 years doing this. So it. 658 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,400 Must more like more like 10 or 15 in the in the recent times 659 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,840 there had been a number of outbreaks of bat virus disease 660 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,960 and it was quite lethal, but it wasn't transmissible. 661 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,720 One was in the Middle East and there was actually a SARS 662 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,720 outbreak in China, which is when they first noticed this bat 663 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:07,640 virus is lethal if minors cave, people breathe it in. 664 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:14,440 So what happens is that within the Wuhan lab, and this would be 665 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,760 any lab really, you, the bio weapons people keep an eye on 666 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,640 what's going on. And they are military, of 667 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,960 course. And they go, oh, we're 668 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,440 interested in that. And so they actually took the 669 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,960 codes and I think they worked on it themselves. 670 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,800 I don't think the famous batwoman of Wuhan, XI, Jiang 671 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,000 Lee, I don't. She said it didn't come from my 672 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,600 lab. It's not. 673 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,560 Well, hang on a minute. What's she saying there? 674 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,680 Well, just down the road is the bio weapons lab. 675 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,440 And they've given the codes. Those codes also went to North 676 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,800 Carolina. And so when the Chinese say it 677 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:58,000 could just as easily have come from the Americans right now, 678 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,880 The thing is, the Secret Service know all this. 679 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,320 I mean, either they're incompetent and don't know it, 680 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,600 or they are. They're not, sorry to say. 681 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,120 Didn't they throw out, didn't they throw them out of North 682 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,680 Carolina because they found out they were they were doing gain 683 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,520 of function? Well, now you've got you've got 684 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:24,240 President Trump coming in on it and, and appointing Robert 685 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:27,000 Kennedy Junior. So they're on the case. 686 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,040 I don't know how far they've got, but I think Fauci, who's 687 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,880 the head honcho in the Disease Control, but it's also the bio 688 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,840 weapons section. He's got immunity of prosecution 689 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,520 as indeed all the pharmaceutical companies have. 690 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,120 So the, the, the, the rationale behind this and Peter Dadjek's 691 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,480 job is to find those viruses that are dangerous and can be 692 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,440 manipulated because the enemy might do the same. 693 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,760 Now, the enemy's never specified, but it's kind of 694 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:09,760 Osama bin Laden territory. And after 911, the bio weapons 695 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,760 community received billions to protect us against bio warfare. 696 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,640 So what they have to do is what's, how do you protect 697 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,560 against bio warfare? First of all, you have to work 698 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,160 out what the enemy's going to do. 699 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,920 And then you have to get a vaccine ready. 700 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,400 So that's what was happening in Wuhan and CDC in in North 701 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,600 Carolina. And they had a vaccine more or 702 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,360 less ready. That's why it happened so 703 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,440 quickly. And one of the most egregious 704 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,600 things from my perspective, having worked on radiation when 705 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:52,360 there was a big blind spot in the 50s and 60s about low level 706 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,760 radiation, every single scientist in the institute said 707 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,240 it's not a problem. There's a threshold and you 708 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:02,880 know, low level radiation can't cause any harm. 709 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,960 One scientist stood against this. 710 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,200 A A a female epidemiologist at Birmingham University. 711 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,800 Her connection with doctors was telling her that more children 712 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,760 were coming showing leukaemia than they should be. 713 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:24,920 She investigated and there was a correlation between those 714 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:30,040 children's whose mothers had been X rayed and the development 715 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,880 of leukaemia in the foetus, in the children. 716 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,200 She was vilified, she was opposed. 717 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,680 It took 10 or 15 years to change the establishment view. 718 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,960 They even knighted the British. The main protagonist against 719 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,160 her, Sir Edward Pochin. She received no honours at all. 720 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,240 Of course, nobody now X rays, pregnant women, I mean, you 721 00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,000 know, your dentist will leave the room just for a little extra 722 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,520 here. So it's like you've even got 723 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,720 people within the the kind of anti environmental movement 724 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,720 saying we should get more nuclear power and all this stuff 725 00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:14,280 about radiation. It's over hyped and there's no, 726 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,520 there's, you know, there's a threshold, a little bit of 727 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,680 radiation. It's good for you kind of stuff. 728 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:24,520 And they ignore all of her work and and this is a gender issue, 729 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:32,400 You know, they were blind to pregnant women and what what 730 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,080 happened in COVID. Within a very short time, they 731 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,840 were saying, yeah, we we want to inoculate pregnant women and 732 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,560 going, well, hang on a minute. You can't, you're not allowed to 733 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,080 test the vaccine with pregnant women. 734 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,160 So it means it's not tested. And then the first data coming 735 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:54,560 through from Japan showed that the spike protein, which one of 736 00:48:54,560 --> 00:49:00,080 the chief people to do with mRNA technology had said, what are we 737 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,920 doing? We we thought the spike protein 738 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,240 would stay in the arm. And I'm going, I'm a biologist. 739 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:06,720 What on earth made you think that? 740 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,200 Then the data comes from Japan saying it goes all over the 741 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,120 body, concentrates in the uterus. 742 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,920 And then that would be enough to go, all right, we're not going 743 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,480 to inoculate pregnant women. But then a year later, a 744 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,720 Japanese team studying cancer rates in those people who'd been 745 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:30,680 vaccinated and those who hadn't. And that they're not much 746 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:38,040 accelerated, maybe about 2% overall, but in the uterine 747 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:44,400 cancers, more like 10%. And so because my database is a 748 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,880 bit of a shambles and I was writing about it, I thought, oh, 749 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,320 I must go back to that paper, get the details. 750 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,200 I remembered the authors I had. So I find it's on a Japanese 751 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,920 journal. It's been retracted, it's been 752 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,640 withdrawn. So normally you have to have a 753 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,280 process to do that where the people who wrote the paper agree 754 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,040 with the criticisms and to have it retracted. 755 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,360 Those people did not agree and they were opposed to the 756 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,920 retraction, but it happened anyway. 757 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,760 So that's another little way in which the establishment protects 758 00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,480 itself. Absolutely. 759 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,520 And they will, they will try and get your paper retracted by 760 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,600 putting pressure on the editorial board. 761 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:29,800 And I've witnessed that. So all of these things we're 762 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,400 talking about a high level of complicity, collusion, 763 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:39,720 corruption, conspiracy. And if you use those words, 764 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,320 then, then they, they dismiss you. 765 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,240 And they don't even the Greens don't even register my past 766 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,560 history. You know, I'm not some lunatic 767 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:55,600 going on about conspiracy. You know it, it's like, come on, 768 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,880 let's get real here. But they don't want to. 769 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,360 They don't want to because they have an ideological commitment. 770 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,360 And it's it's it's basically a China type society where you can 771 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,080 control everything. And it's very well in their 772 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,600 eyes, it's very green. But even then, you know. 773 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:17,480 It's the opposite though, isn't it? 774 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,280 Because you know, when you look at what they, what, what the 775 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,880 greens are supporting is a, is a non biological technocratic 776 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,680 society. And it's, it's the direct polar 777 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,960 opposite of what they profess to be, to be. 778 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,720 They're all about nature and conservation and all this sort 779 00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:36,640 of thing. But actually what they, what 780 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:41,240 they're supporting is entirely different in, in as much as 781 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,200 they're covering our land with solar farms and wind farms and 782 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,000 the farmland's disappearing and, and, and, and they won't have 783 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,480 that conversation. And it drives me insane. 784 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,080 And it must drive you insane too. 785 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,960 They just go a blind. They're they're blind to any of 786 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,800 this technocratic stuff. And when you listen to someone 787 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:04,640 like Noah Yuval Harari, who's Klaus Schwab's advisor, and he 788 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,880 says our aim is to have nothing biological on this planet, get 789 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,760 rid of everything but, and you just think there's a an element 790 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,240 of something very evil there, sort of real. 791 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,760 I I I I wouldn't use the word evil myself. 792 00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:26,640 I've I've called it the dim DIMMM dimwits, the dangerously 793 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,640 imbalanced modern male mind. Thank you and and what what you 794 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,360 have is it's mostly a male thing, especially the science. 795 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,800 Lots of women involved, but they've already agreed to be 796 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,280 like a man, right? They'll do the methods just the 797 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:44,760 same. There's no difference. 798 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:51,880 In fact, often they're better. But what's missing the imbalance 799 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,560 is, is the feminine power, the feminine polarity. 800 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:02,040 And that that's, it's not so much about gender as such, it's 801 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,040 about wisdom. And if you go back to the 802 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,560 ancients, they had a, a goddess sapphire wisdom and we have it 803 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:15,720 in our language, Sophia, philosophy, the love of wisdom. 804 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,640 And that wisdom was always embodied by the feminine for 805 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,520 good reason. The wisdom is not in the mind, 806 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,440 right? And there are all these mental 807 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:31,600 men that they have no wisdom, they have no heart. 808 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:35,040 The the whole corporate endeavour, which is, you know, 3 809 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,200 or 400 years old, which has raped the planet. 810 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,760 There's no dispute about that. This is the, the modern male 811 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:49,280 mind gone completely AWOL. It's it's absent from its own 812 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,680 heart. And that's, that's acknowledged. 813 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,520 I mean, you can't talk about heart around a boardroom table. 814 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,480 You can't talk about heart in the city. 815 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,240 You, you can't talk about love should reign supreme in all of 816 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:05,960 this. We live in a Christian hypocrisy 817 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,680 where it's OK to stockpile nuclear weapons and call 818 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,560 yourself the Archbishop of Canterbury or whatever. 819 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:19,680 You know, it's like, no, this is not a society that has any real 820 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,560 connection to its heart and therefore it's it has no 821 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:29,240 connection to wisdom. So what we have to do is somehow 822 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:37,280 re immerse the male into its own feminine and that is a big 823 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,160 undertaking because we're talking about a feminine 824 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:46,920 approach to consciousness which we've hardly ever seen. 825 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:52,280 We've been in 3 or 4000 years of patriarchal, control orientated 826 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:58,920 war defence enemies. So you I've been for my next 827 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,120 book, I've been going back to where this all began and trying 828 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,760 to find the thread that runs through that has subjugated the 829 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,200 feminine mind, which here I'm, I'm, I'm talking about 830 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:23,040 intuition, love and compassion and, and not seeing the world 831 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,280 full of enemies. I mean, Jesus said all of this. 832 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,760 I'm, I'm not a, a, a Christian as such. 833 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:36,280 I'm, I'm closer to Buddhism or yoga or whatever, but we, we 834 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:37,960 don't live in a Christian country. 835 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,600 Don't do you think though that that it's an imbalance? 836 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:47,120 It's more of imbalance because I feel that we do need strong men. 837 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,360 I feel that the, the, the male energy in our world that, you 838 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,640 know, has, OK, we've got the awful corporate stuff going on, 839 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,840 the, the patriarchy and the corporations. 840 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,680 But in, in an, a normal sort of setting, I feel that men have 841 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,400 actually lost their masculinity. They're, they're the, the good 842 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,600 side of masculinity, which is the protection of the female and 843 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,840 the helping of the, and, and the, the guardianship and the, 844 00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,480 and the warrior that there's no male areas anymore. 845 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,240 Where are they? Where, where were they during? 846 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,800 I mean, I, I know I went on quite a few of the lockdown 847 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,160 marches, but certainly in this movement, there's been far more 848 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,800 women coming forward than men and that, that has to be wrong. 849 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,560 It's almost like they've, I feel they've lost the, the good side 850 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,320 of masculinity. Masculinity is important. 851 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,560 And if all the men become over feminised, then surely that's 852 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:40,360 not right either. I. 853 00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,720 Don't think the men are becoming over feminised. 854 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:50,400 I I think the the problem is that when men wake up to the 855 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:56,720 depth of the error and they feel, Oh my God, we are 856 00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:01,320 responsible for this, we are toxic masculinity walking 857 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,400 around. See, I don't go along. 858 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:07,000 I'm sorry, I disagree with. I've seen enough of it to know 859 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:12,720 it exists. In my younger days, I was 860 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:19,160 trained in the military and I used to hang out with some, some 861 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,600 pretty special forces people, you know, and, and it's like you 862 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,480 pick up on, on the mentality, you pick up on the, the, the 863 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,400 attitudes to women and so on. I hope it's changed since then. 864 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:36,640 But overall you get very decent, very decent men. 865 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:42,120 I, I, I've, I've got a very positive view of our own 866 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,960 military. My father was in the military, 867 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,560 so I've seen it at close quarters and you've got very, 868 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:54,440 very decent men who, who have a warrior spirit, They have a 869 00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,440 protective, strong, protective nature. 870 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:04,360 Unfortunately they're being used by a regime that puts them 871 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,720 usually in a foreign place protecting so called national 872 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,440 interest. Well man, I agree with all that. 873 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:17,200 What's missing is that when the men wake up, they feel guilty. 874 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,600 They suppress their masculine because they don't know how to 875 00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,320 act. I can feel that many times. 876 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,640 You know how to act around women without offending and well. 877 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,440 Exactly, Yeah. And so there's this uncertainty 878 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,200 about masculinity. I think men are very confused 879 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,480 in, in a lot of ways because you've had the feminist movement 880 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,320 that, you know, in some ways women needed to, to, to, to, you 881 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,840 know, to the whole 50s woman had to get break free from the 882 00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,600 kitchen and all that stuff and had to go out to work and 883 00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,440 financially had to. And men don't, men don't know 884 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,200 where their place is because sometimes, you know, the women 885 00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,640 are more powerful. So they they're, they're not 886 00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,000 quite, Yeah, they're very confused. 887 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,480 For me, the feminist. Time as well, but we can carry 888 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:04,640 on for a couple of minutes and then. 889 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:11,680 The the feminist movement made a huge understandable error in 890 00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,560 pursuing power. Equality is power and that 891 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,920 directly you are entering the male world and you're proving 892 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,920 that women can do just as well in that world, whether it's a 893 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:28,760 banker or top chief executive or a fighter pilot, an engineer, a 894 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:34,480 chemist, you know, a bat virus specialist, you know, it's like 895 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:37,680 they're just playing the male game. 896 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,800 And and like I say, they can be very good at it. 897 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,400 I'm a huge fan of female football, female rugby, female 898 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,200 athletics, you know, wow, these women are real warriors. 899 00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,200 It takes discipline and skill and all of that. 900 00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,960 So great admiration. But what's not happening is that 901 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:02,920 the the deeper, darker feminine, what used to be called witchy, 902 01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:07,800 that is not. OK, That is not celebrated. 903 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,400 The kind of woman who knows where you are, knows what you're 904 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:15,640 thinking, can actually, in a way, travel a little bit in the 905 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,320 astral realms. What, You know, we don't want 906 01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,640 that kind of woman. And this is exactly what 907 01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,520 happened in, you know, England 1600. 908 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,680 Yeah, You get the King of England who's regarded as the 909 01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,920 Solomon of his time, IE Wisdom in our way, attending witch 910 01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:41,800 trials in Scotland before became King of England, and writing a 911 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,560 book on demonology outlining why you can't trust women. 912 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,200 They're much closer to the devil you know they aren't they're. 913 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:52,640 Connected. I can't go along with that. 914 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,520 They're they're connected to this unseen world and they can 915 01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,480 manipulate it like the witches. Well, I think women do do hold, 916 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,280 you know, a lot of power. They are the in a way they, you 917 01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,080 know, they're a creatrix. You know, there's a lot of power 918 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,520 within a woman and used the right way, it could like men, it 919 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,720 can be used the wrong way. I think all of our power, 920 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,600 masculine power, female power can all be used the wrong way. 921 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,560 And I I think that that, yeah, I mean, this is this. 922 01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,840 Is I might be idealising, I might be idealising women, but I 923 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,320 feel that they're closer, they're closer, they're closer 924 01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,360 to their heart. Yeah, they are. 925 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,080 That's and that's why, that's why, that's why the ancients 926 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,760 said wisdom is feminine. Yeah. 927 01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,880 It's because real wisdom is a heart thing. 928 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,480 Yeah. And that's what we're missing. 929 01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,240 And, and the women have to have to bring that back, but they 930 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,920 have to bring it back with some power. 931 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,800 The wisdom and the heart we're. Not going along with this 932 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,960 anymore. And, and we're going to stand up 933 01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,480 for the heart. We're going to stand up against 934 01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,320 all of this. So, you know, I, I think women 935 01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,640 should be the leading edge of the change, no? 936 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,760 I think they are. I think they are, yeah. 937 01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,880 Somebody like the Dalai Lama said it's the Western woman that 938 01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,800 will save the world. Who knows? 939 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,560 Yeah. Well, it certainly needs. 940 01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,960 It certainly needs. It needs saving. 941 01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,080 Let's. Just give this a bit more of a 942 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,440 plug. Where can we get your book? 943 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,760 Is it you? Can get it from Amazon. 944 01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,960 Book shops don't necessarily stop it because it's regarded as 945 01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,720 too controversial and the Green Mafia might show up and and 946 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:36,720 trash the shop. That was the excuse given in 947 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,240 Glastonbury for why the only independent bookshop wouldn't 948 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,240 stop it. I'm going to have a word with 949 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,000 that man. Excellent, I tried. 950 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,000 What, what's good is that we can, a whole load of us can go 951 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,320 in there and say, look, we're trying to buy this book and it's 952 01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,080 not in your shop. What's going on? 953 01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,400 You know, I've got, well, there's enough people that 954 01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,880 support your work to, to do that. 955 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,360 We've got to get a whole thing going because he could make some 956 01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,000 money. And when he realises he's losing 957 01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,880 out on money, maybe he'll change his mind anyway. 958 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,600 So what's, what was, what's your final thing that you'd like to 959 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,400 say about maybe the whole world about, you know, what's going 960 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:14,800 on? Because we did have, I know 961 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,800 you're a very esoteric man. So what would you, what would 962 01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:23,840 you say as the final thing? Well, esoteric means inner 963 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:29,200 world. And recently after a talk I'd 964 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,080 given about the dangers that we all face, someone said, don't 965 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,320 you get depressed because the prospects are not good? 966 01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,760 And I said, no, no, I can't get depressed. 967 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,120 He said, for me, there are two worlds this the outer world, 968 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,480 which in in yoga is regarded as a bit of an illusion. 969 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,440 You, you wouldn't want to stand in front of a bus, but you know, 970 01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,360 it's, it's still an illusion, right? 971 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,320 And then the inner world, and that's the reality. 972 01:03:56,000 --> 01:04:00,040 And the inner world is something that you have to get to know, 973 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,880 You have to explore. For a man, that inner world is 974 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:10,800 contains a woman inside you. Usually you've suppressed and my 975 01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,240 inner woman says you've been ignoring me all day. 976 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,360 And why don't you let me make the decision sometime? 977 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:21,160 And it's like that. That's the level of rebalancing 978 01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,440 that has has to happen. We have to, we have to 979 01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:29,360 strengthen our hearts. And and that's heart is, is 980 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,000 where the courage is. And, and you know, you take 981 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,840 Andrew Bridgens standing up in Parliament and ruining his whole 982 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,920 career. He didn't have to do that. 983 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,680 And, and people will come up to me and say, why are you ruining 984 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:44,480 your career over this? You know, that's courage. 985 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,160 So it's like we've got to get courageous and, and we've got to 986 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,880 get the heart back and we've got to do the inner work so that 987 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,840 when it really gets tough and here it hasn't got tough yet. 988 01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:02,400 But if you're in Syria or Palestine or South Sudan or a 989 01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,920 lot of other places on the planet, Armageddon is already 990 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:10,280 with you. So it's like we have got to wake 991 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,320 up our our whole country is planning for nuclear war. 992 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:20,040 The whole country, our leaders so called, and then they've 993 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,520 learned the lessons from COVID. Those bioweapons labs are still 994 01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,720 producing, they're still working, they're still dusting 995 01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:30,040 off the plans through plutonium economy, hoping people like me 996 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:35,240 fade away. You know, so it's like it's 997 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,280 crucial. It's crucial that we we find our 998 01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,880 heart and our courage very quickly now and then from there 999 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:50,360 we reform the system. So I don't know of any political 1000 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,080 party that's dealing with this. I, I I'm not sure political 1001 01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:58,480 parties are the answer, but I think sadly, we're going to have 1002 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,480 to wrap up now. Thank you for the opportunity. 1003 01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,680 I think there's. Very wise words at the end. 1004 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,280 Absolutely. We need courage, we need we need 1005 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,880 you know you those are very wise words. 1006 01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,040 You're a very wise and it. Takes it takes work. 1007 01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,000 It's inner work. It's not easy. 1008 01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,800 It can be scary. You, you're facing your own 1009 01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,680 shadow. One has to actually realise 1010 01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:27,400 there's only one human being on this planet and, and we can 1011 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:32,360 really screw up now. And that's why science and this 1012 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,560 dangerously imbalanced modern male mind has LED us. 1013 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:43,040 So this is like wake up or die. And, and that's, that's, that's 1014 01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:44,280 what we have, what we have to do. 1015 01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,360 And it's, it's hard work. It's hard work to maintain that 1016 01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,000 inner world. And in different times you would 1017 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,200 be burnt alive for doing that, you know so. 1018 01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,160 Yeah, right. Well, Peter, it's been 1019 01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:02,080 absolutely marvellous speaking to you and I don't know where 1020 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:02,960 the time's gone. It's. 1021 01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:04,360 Just gone. I was just looking. 1022 01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,440 And it's because it's so engaging. 1023 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,760 Well, thank you very much for for this opportunity talk so 1024 01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,880 widely, Sandy, and for being such a good host. 1025 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:14,480 Thank you. Thank you. 1026 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,200 Thank you very much. Goodbye.