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None. 
My video that I did was former 

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Angus since you yourself were a 
bit of a former regenerative 

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farming and one of the comments 
that I received, I think it was 

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actually in in the UK column 
forum when someone said this is 

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not actually scalable. 
What are what are your thoughts,

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Charles? 
That's, that's an interesting 

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point. 
I, I think my first question, 

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well, what is meant by scalable?
Because if people are, if people

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are thinking that there's a 
model that works on a small 

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scale, but really we need to do 
it on an industrial scale, then 

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I would say they're immediately 
missing the point and completely

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on the wrong track. 
Which is not to say I'm 

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attacking whoever it is that did
ask that, but the point with 

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what Angus is doing, what 
anyone's doing, is that it's got

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to be situation specific. 
So his raising of, let's say 

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cattle, pigs and chickens is 
going to work for him given the 

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conditions at Spear where he is.
But you're going to be finding 

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that somewhere else. 
Those conditions don't present 

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themselves and therefore you'll 
have to think differently in 

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terms of the the specifics. 
But the principle should be the 

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same. 
And I think that's what it's all

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about here. 
It's it's, it's the principle. 

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And he is demonstrating the, 
the, the sort of the front end 

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of it, the first bit, how to 
achieve the dual benefit of 

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delivery of improvement to the 
environment via, as he says, the

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enhancing of the soil and in 
particular carbon and nitrogen 

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fixing, as well as the 
improvement of the health of the

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livestock that he's got on the 
ground. 

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And, and the, the synergy 
between those two things and how

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they, you know, in effect there,
that's part of an upward spiral.

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The other side of it, which I 
think people are are yet to 

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grasp for perfectly understand, 
understandable reasons are that 

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once that is converted into 
produce for human consumption, 

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you've, you've got two things to
deal with. 

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I think first of all, the, the, 
the pricing, let's say the 

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pricing of it and, and people's 
understanding of how quality and

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price relate to one another. 
Because I think there's people 

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are put off to a large extent by
the idea that they might be 

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paying more for food, but 
they're not qualifying what 

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exactly they're getting from 
that, which leads into the 

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second point, which is what 
Angus would describe as nutrient

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density. 
So ultimately, what it means is 

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you need a smaller volume of 
better food. 

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And I think that's completely 
reinforced by, let's say, in the

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conversations that you've had in
recent months. 

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The two that spring very 
obviously to mind would be those

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with Tim Noakes and Zoe Harkin. 
And I absolutely challenge 

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anybody to do this. 
I don't mean this in a 

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confrontational way. 
I mean a really positive way if 

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if you're considering what your 
body needs, then there are many 

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ways in which you can quite 
simply test this. 

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And there's no, I don't think 
there's really any serious doubt

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about the value of animal 
products in the progress of the 

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human form as we consider it to 
be today. 

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And I think the only regression 
that we are susceptible to is 

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due to the way in which diet 
that is not human specific or 

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human suitable has pervaded our 
culture and completely knocked 

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everybody off kilter, both 
physically and more disturbingly

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mentally. 
And I think when I, when I say 

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disturbingly, the, the thing, I,
I think I've talked about this 

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before, but whilst it is easy to
make a physical appraisal of 

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whether or not you're in a good 
condition with, you know, in 

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relation to say, your peer group
or to any other sort of metric 

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that you choose to evaluate 
mental capacity in an absolute 

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sense is very, very difficult 
thing to do because you don't 

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know what your brain would have 
been capable of or is capable of

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until you try. 
So going back to the the 

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question on the scalability, my 
answer to that would be yes, it 

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is absolutely scalable, but it 
does require that whole chain to

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make sense to everybody that's 
going to be a part of it. 

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Therefore, Angus's model, which 
is to put together a system that

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delivers those benefits at at 
source, at on the literally on 

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the ground, translating through 
to a better life for the people 

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that are consuming that and 
everybody along the way in in 

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the the sort of business 
environment has to make sense 

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and that can be put anywhere. 
And this I mean, I had talked 

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well, I think I spoke to Angus, 
you know, kind of longer 

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interview. 
I must have been a year and a 

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half ago, I think and, and in 
quite close proximity that spoke

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to Julian Rose, who demonstrates
absolutely that it can be done 

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because he's talking about it 
thousands of miles away and how 

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he got into this in the 1970s in
the United Kingdom. 

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So so yes, it's totally 
scalable. 

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However, if people are saying, 
well, he's, he's able to do this

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on what might be regarded as a 
relatively small scale and we 

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need to do it across thousands 
and thousands or hundreds of 

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thousands of hectares. 
Well, that, that, that just 

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doesn't make sense. 
The, the you'll, you'll then, 

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unless you're going to be 
subdividing all of that, you'll 

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then strength absolutely 
straight back into the area of 

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monoculture and in in intensity.
That is what the main big sort 

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of, you know, big farm, big food
industries have been doing now 

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for, for decades to the 
detriment of both animals and 

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humans. 
And of course the environment as

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it should probably be regarded 
as opposed to the way in which 

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it's been hijacked by the 
unfortunate climate alarmists. 

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So sorry, not a, not a short 
answer, but I think it is it, it

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is something that I, I just 
consider to be so important 

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because it, it, it is made to 
seem more challenging and more 

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uncertain than I think it should
be. 

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And I think Angus puts it across
very, very well. 

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And, and he's running a business
as well. 

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If it didn't work in a country 
where there's not the degree of,

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you know, well what we have come
to call support by way of 

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subsidy, If that doesn't exist 
in South Africa, which it 

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doesn't, then why on earth would
he be doing it? 

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There's a there's a host of 
issues here, right? 

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So each of our countries now has
huge populations. 

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So what is it in the UK at the 
moment? 

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Sixty, 70 million, some, some 
are approaching 70 million or 

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something. 
And those people have to be fed.

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But we, the lifestyle choices 
that we are being encouraged to 

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accept, involve entertainment 
and involve holidays and involve

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things that we want to spend our
money on. 

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We have systematically built a 
farming industry which is so 

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running on such narrow margins 
that they are increasingly 

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intensively farming. 
It's, as Charles said, producing

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a product which is devoid of the
nutrients that we actually need.

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And so we're having to consume 
more and therefore we need more 

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industrialization to provide the
the more that we need. 

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But, but it's also cheaper. 
So, you know, whether this is 

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scalable or not is dependent, in
my opinion, on whether we're 

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prepared to pay for it to be 
scalable because it'll only 

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scale by having more. 
Maybe I'm ready to tell me if 

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I'm wrong here, Charles. 
But but you know, these, these 

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are relatively small 
enterprises. 

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They're not intensively farmed, 
they're not industrial. 

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Therefore we need more people 
doing them. 

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So we have replaced the small 
farmer in the UK and the EU and 

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in the United States with the 
industrialised super farms that 

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that, you know, frankly in the 
United States they're they're an

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order of magnitude bigger than 
the UK. 

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But still we have these 
industrialised super farms in 

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the UK that, that are just 
producing rubbish at, at low 

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cost and going through the 
supermarkets at low cost. 

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And therefore we're spending a 
small proportion of our salaries

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on food and that's giving us all
kinds of income for other forms 

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of for forms of entertainment 
that we couldn't have imagined 

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100 years ago. 
This this a theme of the 

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conversation that we've had 
German from the beginning has 

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been the lifestyle choices that 
we make. 

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And this this is another one. 
And, and my personal view is 

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that, that we should be seeking 
out the farmers who are prepared

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to to operate on the 
regenerative model or, or a 

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model that that we believe is 
producing a higher quality, 

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higher nutrient dense product, 
even if that costs significantly

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larger proportion of our income 
than than we might otherwise 

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like to. 
And we have to make those, we 

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have to make those lifestyle 
choices and decide whether 

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whether we want to, where we 
want to put our money. 

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And and it seems to me that if 
we if we make the correct 

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choices, that then we naturally 
will create a farming base which

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which is providing the right 
kind of product. 

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Yeah, but I mean, Angus made the
point a couple times actually, 

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which he said, is it actually 
more expensive because what is 

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the value of your health? 
Well, that that that is 

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absolutely, I completely agree 
with that, that that is 

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absolutely a point that I've 
been trying to make for quite 

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some time now. 
You know, if we are, if we're 

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looking at the world and we're 
saying that the world is not 

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functioning the way that we want
it to work. 

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If we're saying that that the 
people that are running the 

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show, the corporate interests, 
the profiteering, if we're 

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saying that this is not the type
of world we want to live in, 

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then, you know, the choices 
begin with us and where we are 

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prepared to put our money. 
And if we keep putting our money

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into those corporations and 
those corporations are going to 

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continue to flourish and we're 
going to end up with worst 

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quality food. 
You know, we know the direction 

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this is going in. 
They, they, they, the news this 

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week was that now we're starting
to see lab growing salmon. 

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You know, it's called lab 
growing. 

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We, we, we shouldn't call it lab
growing because it's not men in 

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00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,200
white coats in, in some clean 
environment. 

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That's, that's producing this 
stuff. 

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It's industrial factory 
produced, you know, salmon now 

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and is, is that something that 
we, we really want to eat or do 

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we want to eat something which 
is being, which is being grown 

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in a, in a natural way? 
I, I don't think I want to be 

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eating this artificial stuff. 
I mean, I have to admit, in the 

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past, I've, I've seriously given
a serious consideration because,

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you know, I'm, I would have 
have, from an ethical point of 

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view, considered it potentially 
a better solution than than 

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killing. 
But you know, this is on the 

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00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,600
other hand, killing is a natural
part of life and, and maybe we 

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00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,840
shouldn't be afraid of that 
either. 

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00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,480
So, so you know, it, it, it all 
comes down to our personal 

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00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,720
decisions about where we want to
put our money. 

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00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,680
And and the idea of some Bill 
Gates inspired lab, so called 

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00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:35,120
lab grown meat substitute is not
something that appeals to me. 

191
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,200
And I would rather see my money 
going to the likes of Angus, 

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00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,480
even if that means that it is 
actually going to cost a little 

193
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,480
bit more. 
And you know, I take his point, 

194
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,440
it doesn't have to cost the 
earth. 

195
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,480
I'm sure it's going to cost more
than an industrialised process 

196
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,440
that I'm sure it must do. 
Is that am I wrong with that 

197
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,720
Charles? 
Well, this is the thing. 

198
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,120
It depends how you how you 
regard it. 

199
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,240
What what is enormously in 
favour of the regenerative model

200
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,520
or anything that's akin to it is
that you have either minimal or 

201
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,720
no inputs at all. 
So where orthodox farming is 

202
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640
having to use not. 
Well, it depends what what sort 

203
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,720
of farming you're talking about.
But typically if, if there's any

204
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:29,480
arable activity that will mean 
the, the constant use of 

205
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,920
fertilisers, pesticides, 
herbicides, fungicides, all that

206
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,800
sort of thing. 
And that is a, a very 

207
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,200
destructive cycle, very 
obviously destructive cycle. 

208
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,880
There's no, there's no debate 
about that. 

209
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,040
Even the people that are doing 
it realise that they are 

210
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,520
degrading the very ground that 
they're trying to ask to produce

211
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,960
what it is that they want to try
to make money from. 

212
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,040
I think just just going back to 
where it's gone wrong in a 

213
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,600
business sense is that on the 
scalability side of it, the only

214
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,640
people that are suited by this 
model now are the absolutely 

215
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:08,560
gargantuan players who are able 
to rely on very few staff, on 

216
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:11,400
lots of technology, on some 
very, very clever bits of 

217
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,280
equipment. 
I, I'm, I'm not in any way 

218
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,680
dismissing the incredible 
development, if that's the right

219
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:23,120
word of the methods because 
it's, it's become a, a very 

220
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,960
skilled, very, very efficient 
process, but that doesn't make 

221
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,520
it right. 
However, there's a, there's a 

222
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,280
huge BLOB in the middle of 
farms, particularly in this 

223
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,040
country. 
And I would put it that this is 

224
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,280
the case in, in any country 
where farming subsidy exists, or

225
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,320
indeed where the marketplace is 
similar to that of the United 

226
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,240
Kingdom. 
There are an awful lot of farms 

227
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,720
occupying the middle ground who 
have been convinced to try to 

228
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,880
farm in that way, but they are 
the wrong size and therefore it 

229
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,240
doesn't make sense for them to 
do it because the margins are 

230
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,400
far too tight and it can't be 
made to work. 

231
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,240
Which is why we go back to this 
subsidy driven absurdity of 

232
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,960
people continuing to do the same
thing year after year, in many 

233
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,880
cases actually getting a return 
that is lower than the cost of 

234
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,600
all the inputs in the 1st place.
Which why would anyone do that? 

235
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,800
And OK, you might say, well 
that's because people have got 

236
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,760
it, because they realise they've
got to feed the nation. 

237
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,920
Well that certainly in the 
United Kingdom that that I'm 

238
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:33,760
afraid is, is, is fast because 
people, some people, some 

239
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,840
farmers might genuinely believe 
that that is a call that they 

240
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,000
are answering. 
But the evidence does not point 

241
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,440
towards that at all. 
The self sufficiency slash food 

242
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,080
security figures don't back that
up, not even slightly. 

243
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,440
And also if there were still any
doubt, you only have to look at 

244
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,600
the uptake of the various 
environmental Land Management 

245
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,880
schemes that have specifically 
encouraged farmers to take land 

246
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,680
out of production so that that's
a non starter. 

247
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,080
But nonetheless, there are an 
awful lot of people who who are 

248
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,680
trying to make a business model 
work that they are simply not 

249
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,960
suited to making work. 
And to to go back to Angus's 

250
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,360
point about cost, yeah, I would 
completely agree with him that 

251
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,480
the cost cost is twofold. 
First of all, if you don't take 

252
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,600
your health and nutrition 
seriously, although you might 

253
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,480
not realise it as it's happening
there, there will likely come a 

254
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:36,680
point where your system starts 
to do stuff that it wouldn't 

255
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,560
otherwise do or shouldn't 
otherwise do. 

256
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,080
It's then up to you as to what 
measures you take to correct 

257
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,440
that. 
But for the vast majority of 

258
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,960
people, that means going into a 
health service, which is only 

259
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,240
very likely to make things worse
for you. 

260
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,960
And of course the other great 
part of well, the sorry, the 

261
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,600
first part of this, this cost is
not just the cost to you of the 

262
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,240
limitations you're putting on 
your own life by degrading your 

263
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,480
own health, but also the jacking
up of the bill for in, in, in 

264
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,079
our case, the National Health 
Service, which already consumes 

265
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:11,480
half a billion pounds every 
single day, which is, I would 

266
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,599
say, absolutely outrageous when 
one considers what it delivers 

267
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,079
in return. 
And the other side of it, which 

268
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:23,599
which Mike was alluding to is 
that yes, item by item, it might

269
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,240
seem to be more expensive to buy
food that is produced in this 

270
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,160
way. 
But my point is that in actual 

271
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:36,280
fact, when you compare the 
nutrient, you know what you're 

272
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,480
able to absorb in terms of 
nutrients from that particular 

273
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,520
piece of food. 
My what I would posit is that 

274
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,840
actually it is either the same 
or not even as expensive to feed

275
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,920
yourself in this way, but it 
just takes a completely 

276
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,040
different mindset and indeed way
of eating and and the other 

277
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,280
rather unpalatable detail. 
But I'm afraid to say it cannot 

278
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,360
be ignored because you only need
to stand outside a supermarket 

279
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:05,800
and just watch people come and 
go. 

280
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,000
So statistics are one thing, but
just consider the anecdotal 

281
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,560
evidence. 2/3 of people, 2/3 of 
adults in the United Kingdom are

282
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,800
overweight and a third of those 
are classified as obese. 

283
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,440
These these things are all 
related. 

284
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,920
So the so the way in which one 
undoes all of this and creates a

285
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,200
sound business case for all the 
people who are wanting to farm 

286
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,040
in a manner that I would say is 
proper because it does do all 

287
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,240
the things that we want in terms
of benefits to the environment, 

288
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,840
animals and human health. 
All those things could be 

289
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,800
changed by that. 
And yet we're, we're still 

290
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,560
clinging to a system, you know, 
and indeed having having sort of

291
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:57,120
various food strategies proposed
which absolutely only reinforce 

292
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:02,040
the the status quo with a vague 
nod to things like human health.

293
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,000
So I think there's still 
there's, there's just a, a 

294
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,200
really, really long way to go in
terms of understanding. 

295
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,680
But of course, the, the industry
pressure and the lobbying 

296
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,880
capability of those that are in 
control of this is so great that

297
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,920
to get these sorts of messages 
out or indeed to allow people 

298
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,480
who want to farm regeneratively,
certainly in the sort of the, 

299
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,000
the, the West of the Northern 
hemisphere, it's, it's a great 

300
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000
challenge. 
There'd be a lot of obstacles 

301
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,080
put in your path. 
And we see that now in terms of 

302
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,040
policy and legislation in the UK
that is deliberately there to 

303
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,880
not only thwart people who want 
to do stuff on a smaller scale, 

304
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,840
and whether that's with regard 
to selling to the public or how 

305
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,600
you kill livestock or any of 
those sorts of things. 

306
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,400
And indeed, conversely, of 
course is is designed absolutely

307
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,040
to support big, big industry. 
So, so yeah, it's an uphill 

308
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,240
struggle, but the but the way to
make it work is to make those 

309
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,840
approaches to people that are 
thinking at least about changing

310
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,480
part of their farming operation 
to do something like. 

311
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,680
What Angus is doing and and 
absolutely what he does in South

312
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,000
Africa can can be replicated in 
many, many parts of the United 

313
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:12,880
Kingdom. 
Of course it can. 

314
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,960
And it is being done by plenty 
of people as well. 

315
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,520
But again, that doesn't really 
get get talked about. 

316
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,080
Mike, you mentioned earlier 
something about ethics and even 

317
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:28,000
that is is superior in the 
regenerative model. 

318
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,280
Yeah, I mean, I've, I've had 
this conversation with myself 

319
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,720
about what, what I actually 
believe what, what is the right 

320
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,440
thing? 
I think having seen, you know, 

321
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,440
people like Charles, I mean, 
I've, I've met a few others that

322
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,640
are, that are farming on this of
in this kind of style. 

323
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,320
And I've seen the way that their
animals are, are treated. 

324
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,120
And it's not just about how 
they're living, it's also about 

325
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,920
how they're dying. 
And, and the fact of the matter 

326
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,200
is it's, it is as good as it 
could be. 

327
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,360
And so you know that you've got 
that ethical question on one 

328
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:07,600
hand it when I was having this 
conversation with myself, of 

329
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,800
course, I was thinking in terms 
of the industrialised process 

330
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,640
once again, which which I just 
find pretty reprehensible. 

331
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,000
And actually you, you, you 
experience the results of that 

332
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,720
anytime you buy supermarket 
meat, which you can tell that 

333
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,760
the animal was stressed whenever
it was killed. 

334
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,800
It's, it's horrible. 
And, and it's not something that

335
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:36,640
I personally want to consume. 
And so so that that sort of 

336
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,680
sparked that sort of sort of 
internal conversation. 

337
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,640
And of course, on the other side
of that coin is the fact that 

338
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,240
that these beet substitutes that
are coming along is the question

339
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,240
of who's producing these. 
And would I want to ethically 

340
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,240
support these kinds of 
companies? 

341
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,440
And of course, the answer to 
that is a very firm no as well. 

342
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,920
I, I'm a meat eater. 
So I've got to accept that, 

343
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,960
that, that is a part of, of my, 
my diet. 

344
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:09,480
And you know, if, if I found it 
such an ethical challenge, then 

345
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,680
I would obviously have to 
consider not eating meat 

346
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,680
anymore. 
That's not something I'm, I'm, 

347
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,720
that I'm even considering. 
So I've got to be, I've got to 

348
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,600
be willing to accept what the 
processes that are involved in, 

349
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,000
in putting what I need on, on 
the plate. 

350
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,800
And that, that is to my mind, 
begins with making a decision 

351
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,640
about where you source that 
product in the 1st place. 

352
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,480
And if you want to, if you want 
to consider the ethical issue, 

353
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,120
then then you start by, by just 
by actually considering and, and

354
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,200
working to, to find a supplier 
that, that is the best that you 

355
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520
can find. 
And of course that helps with 

356
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,040
your own personal health as 
well. 

357
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,040
But you know, this, this, the 
whole, it's a, it's, it's a 

358
00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,040
great example of, of the sort of
human condition, isn't it? 

359
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,840
Because we're so us as 
consumers, we are so fixated 

360
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,920
and, and tied to the 
supermarket. 

361
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,240
And, but at the same time, we 
might criticise farmers for 

362
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,160
being so tied to the 
industrialised farming methods 

363
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,760
that they're, that they're 
forced to use. 

364
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,120
We, we are the, we are the, the 
demand side of the equation. 

365
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,120
And, and that's what we're 
demanding. 

366
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:27,160
So they're sort of forced to, to
supply in that way. 

367
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,280
And, and so, you know, this is 
not the fault of farmers. 

368
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,040
It's, it's, it all comes back to
us again and the choices that we

369
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,520
make. 
And so you know this, if we are 

370
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,600
facing this, this mad, mad world
that we are at the minute, that 

371
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,080
it always comes down to that. 
And we've got to, we've got to 

372
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,880
really think about the choices 
that we're making and make the 

373
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,840
right ones. 
The issue here I believe is, is 

374
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:59,560
fear actually in that that we 
are all scared to make these the

375
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,360
choice to move in a different 
direction. 

376
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,560
We're scared that maybe we won't
be able to afford if we're 

377
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,760
consumers making that choice. 
Farmers are scared to make that 

378
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,880
choice because they don't know 
whether they can actually sell 

379
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,120
the product, whether they can 
make a living doing it. 

380
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,080
It's the decisions that we're 
making are fear based. 

381
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,400
And this is something we've also
got to recognise and try to set 

382
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,960
aside. 
But I mean, you know, the, the, 

383
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,520
the, on the farmer's side, it, 
it's so easy to criticise, but 

384
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,280
you know, anybody that's an 
arable farmer now is, is farming

385
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,960
intensively. 
They're trying to produce the 

386
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,800
maximum number of tonnes of, of 
weight, for example, but they're

387
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,720
selling that into a globalised 
market. 

388
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,720
So you know this, they're 
effectively putting themselves 

389
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,640
out of business by doing this 
because they are this year, the 

390
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,120
U KS wheat harvest is going to 
be well down on previous years 

391
00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,840
because because of the the 
weather. 

392
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520
And but, but the price that 
they're getting per tonne of 

393
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,560
their final product is lower 
than it's ever been because 

394
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,080
apparently there's significant 
supply globally. 

395
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:14,880
And so they're, they're getting 
paid an amount on a global 

396
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,920
market, which means that they're
effectively going to make a huge

397
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,520
loss this year. 
And that is certainly not 

398
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800
sustainable in the, in the 
traditional sense of the word. 

399
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,960
So, you know, we've got to 
somehow I'm not, I'm not in any 

400
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,360
way underestimating how hard 
this is when we, we've got to 

401
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:37,880
somehow come together and, and 
generate the demand and the 

402
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,640
supply to, to help this, this 
situation change. 

403
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,720
Well, it says Catherine Austin 
Fitz often says you influence 

404
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:55,280
people one person at a time. 
Yeah, absolutely, Jeremy, I or 

405
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,680
maybe it was extra, I can't 
remember. 

406
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,800
I made the comment that, you 
know, we we need to be getting 

407
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,240
organised and somebody in the 
chat box said what do you mean 

408
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,800
by that? 
And what you've just said is a 

409
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,320
prime example of it. 
We need to get organised. 

410
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,280
We don't need to get organised 
necessarily into, into these 

411
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,560
massive sort of multi million 
people movements. 

412
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,280
We need to get organised in 
small groups. 

413
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,360
And, and you know, if if a small
group of people got together 

414
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,000
and, and started canvassing 
local farms and saying, I want 

415
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,320
to buy your eggs, I want to buy 
your chickens, I want to buy 

416
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,960
your beef, whatever it happens 
to be, maybe that would be a 

417
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,080
good start. 
I think even before that, the, 

418
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,080
the idea of organisation has to 
start with oneself and, and if 

419
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,640
if you're going to do any of the
things that we've been talking 

420
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,680
about and that I was talking 
about at the beginning in terms 

421
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,440
of changing, because 
fundamentally this is, this is 

422
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960
to do with changing lifestyles, 
changing diet, changing what 

423
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,400
you're spending your money on 
and how. 

424
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,120
But in order to make that work, 
you need to, I, I, sorry, I 

425
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:01,160
don't mean this in a, in a 
preaching sense, but it, when 

426
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,040
one does it, one needs to be 
organised so that you can be 

427
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:12,600
sure that you have created your 
budget accordingly, not just in 

428
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,840
terms of financial cost, but in 
terms of how you're going to eat

429
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840
what and when. 
And I know that sounds terribly 

430
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,960
simplistic, but but I really 
would suggest we've just been 

431
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,120
talking about wheat. 
This will upset a few people I 

432
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,120
dare say, but I don't believe 
wheat has any part in the human 

433
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,000
diet whatsoever and I would 
apply. 

434
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,800
That with. 
You all grains, I think that 

435
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,440
wheat has a wheat of course has 
a secondary benefit in providing

436
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:44,840
straw for purposes that are used
with farming of of livestock. 

437
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,720
But again there are other ways 
to manage that as well. 

438
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,720
So, so ultimately the vast 
acreage given over to wheat, I 

439
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,840
would say should or could at 
least be doing something else. 

440
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,400
But the the point is that it 
that it's a massive change. 

441
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,320
And if as a listener, you are 
considering all the various 

442
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,040
times during the day that you 
eat wheat and then you think, 

443
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,920
right, OK, well, if that's if 
that's not going to be what I 

444
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,680
want to do from now on for all 
for a host of readers and I, and

445
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,800
this is I'm not, I'm not telling
people what to do. 

446
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,200
All I'm saying is that my 
beliefs are based on, first of 

447
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,920
all, a lot of research into this
and the anthropological side of 

448
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,840
it, but also on my own 
experiences, not just with diets

449
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:42,160
but also with the use of land 
and how soil responds to being 

450
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,920
treated either in a pastoral or 
arable sense. 

451
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,400
But, but if for the sake of 
argument, if you are going to 

452
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,840
going to do that, you need to 
work out how on earth life is 

453
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,640
going to work. 
Because it's, it is no small 

454
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,280
undertaking changing what you 
eat and how you shop. 

455
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,120
And so in, in being organised 
rather than immediately running 

456
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,480
around the place trying to 
galvanised other people into, 

457
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,280
into action. 
But actually you have to prove 

458
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,760
to yourself that it does work. 
And, and, and again, I, I 

459
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,160
absolutely speak from personal 
experience that this is, this 

460
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,400
has been a process that I have 
gone through. 

461
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,640
It's obviously such a sort of 
huge transition. 

462
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,600
Because I, I have to admit I, 
for one reason or another, have 

463
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,120
never really particularly been 
into the idea of supermarkets 

464
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,880
or, or a lot of the stuff that 
is on offer that I think frankly

465
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,440
shouldn't be. 
But but nonetheless, to, to get 

466
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,200
to the point where you think 
that you are happy doing what 

467
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440
you're doing for the reasons 
stated, either concerning health

468
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,720
or the supporting the businesses
that you see as doing benefit to

469
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,360
the environment and, and to 
animals and all the rest of it. 

470
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,440
And, and then you know, and I 
don't dismiss the ethical 

471
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,720
consideration. 
I mean, my, my view of it in 

472
00:29:53,720 --> 00:30:00,640
terms of the taking of life of 
animals in order to sustain our 

473
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,800
existence, I have absolutely no 
issue with, and I dare say there

474
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,800
will be some people considering 
that. 

475
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,560
That sounds terribly blase, but 
but we have been conditioned to 

476
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,040
to be made to feel that we 
should consider that as a point 

477
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,000
of conscience. 
Well, why? 

478
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Because every time a predator 
somewhere in a food chain kills 

479
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,800
whatever it's killing, it does 
not get presented with that, 

480
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,280
that sort of element of of 
consideration. 

481
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,600
And we don't think anything of 
it. 

482
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,960
So yes, in some senses we should
distinguish ourselves as humans,

483
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,160
but but to only to a point. 
I don't want to get drawn off 

484
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,560
totally down that thing, but but
the point I'm making is the main

485
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:55,240
thing is to be thankful for the 
animals that in effect are there

486
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,640
to be part of our food chain and
to make sure that we ensure that

487
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,240
they are looked after in the 
best possible way during their 

488
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,200
lifetime. 
And for me, there's no conflict 

489
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,440
with that resulting in slaughter
for human consumption. 

490
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,920
What I would absolutely take an 
issue with is if there is 

491
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,680
slaughter that doesn't result in
human consumption and the 

492
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,280
processing of animal products 
meets whatever for for other 

493
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,080
purposes. 
But but anyway, I don't 

494
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,440
necessarily want to get drawn 
down that path. 

495
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,720
But yeah, so, so in terms of 
organisation, I think, I think 

496
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,920
as with so many things we talk 
about you before you consider 

497
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,000
really where you're going to go 
with it. 

498
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,920
You have to be absolutely rock 
solid in your own mind and 

499
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,920
indeed your own sort of day to 
day system that that you know 

500
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,640
how it's going to work for you 
before you can start to enthuse 

501
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,080
and encourage others. 
And I think like there's so many

502
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,320
things, if you are setting the 
example, you're already living 

503
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,320
the life, it's much easier for 
people to then take up that 

504
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,440
baton or or mantle, whatever, 
you know, whatever you call it, 

505
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:07,640
because they can see that you're
doing it. 

506
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,480
You can see, they can see the 
benefits that you're getting 

507
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,320
from it. 
They can see the benefits that 

508
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,720
you're putting back into your 
community. 

509
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,480
I mean, how hollow all this talk
is about sort of community and 

510
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,680
local this, that and the other. 
If people aren't actually going 

511
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,720
to do it and they're still 
talking about it and yet still 

512
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,760
traipsing off to the supermarket
and, and, and not following it 

513
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,120
through, then then what is the 
point? 

514
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,160
And again, I'm not, I, I don't 
mean to hector anybody, but 

515
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,000
seriously, we've got to be 
consistent. 

516
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,120
We, we, we can only rant about 
the, the sort of the controlling

517
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
entities in the corporate this, 
that and the other to a certain 

518
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,040
point. 
If we are not going to do deal 

519
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,000
with the one thing that 
everybody does every day, which 

520
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,680
is to eat. 
And, and if you're eating in 

521
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,960
such a way that is quite clearly
propping up that system, then 

522
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,720
why are you still doing it would
be my question and my, my 

523
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,880
challenge. 
But, but it shouldn't be too 

524
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,520
much of a challenge because the,
the point I'm trying to make is 

525
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,640
that this is really a positive 
because once you do turn that 

526
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,680
situation around, the, the 
benefits are absolutely 

527
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,320
enormous. 
But. 

528
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,280
You know, it's it's exactly. 
Mike, people are consumers of 

529
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,920
dissidence. 
That's basically what I was 

530
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:30,280
about to, to get onto because, 
you know, we, we talk about the 

531
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,440
UK column talks about what's 
going on in the world. 

532
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,600
We talk about policies, we talk 
about the results of policies. 

533
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,400
And we have an audience which 
listens to that and consumes 

534
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:47,120
that information and whether 
everybody, us included, are 

535
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,960
saying that this is wrong. 
But the question is how do we, 

536
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,720
how do we deal with that? 
And, and it's a very common 

537
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,400
question. 
Well, what do I do about it? 

538
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,040
And of course everybody's 
waiting for somebody else to 

539
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,840
come along and solve the 
problem. 

540
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,240
But this, this extends what 
Charles has just said. 

541
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,520
If we, if we are looking at the 
world and saying this isn't how 

542
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,199
I wanted to be, then we've got 
to, I'm going to use the word 

543
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,800
resist. 
And resistance isn't just about 

544
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,480
shouting about things. 
We all, we all do shout about 

545
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,159
things. 
Of course, resistance is about 

546
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,760
actually doing something 
different and, but not just one 

547
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,920
thing, it's every aspect. 
So, you know, if, if we don't 

548
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,600
like, if we don't like 5G, then 
we've got to consider not using 

549
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,639
5G. 
We've got to switch our mobile 

550
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:41,679
phones off, put them in the 
drawer and forget about them. 

551
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,920
If we don't like the farming 
industry the way that it is at 

552
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,600
the moment, we've got to stop 
consuming that food and choose 

553
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,679
something else. 
If we don't like the way that 

554
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,679
our children are being educated,
then we've got to consider home 

555
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:56,440
education. 
No matter what the cost is to 

556
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,920
us, we've got to find a way to 
do it. 

557
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:06,480
And you know, the, the, the, we,
we enjoy our lives through the 

558
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,040
conveniences which are provided 
to us by the corporate interests

559
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,880
that we, that we lambast. 
And we've got a, we've got to 

560
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,960
make a choice about whether that
means of that is the, that is 

561
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,800
the fundamental choice we've got
to make. 

562
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,560
If we don't like the world 
that's being built by these 

563
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,160
corporate interests and we've 
got to stop supporting the 

564
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,440
corporate, corporate interests, 
that means a completely 

565
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,360
different lifestyle. 
And that, as Charles has said, 

566
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,200
that's not an easy choice to 
make. 

567
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,880
But you know, when somebody says
to me what do, what do I do? 

568
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,040
That's the answer. 
You start with yourself and you 

569
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,040
show other people. 
It's not no good talking to 

570
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,880
other people about it. 
You've got to show other people 

571
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,000
and people are going to be able 
to see, as Charles just said, 

572
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,360
the effects of the choices that 
you're making. 

573
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,480
You know, even to the, you know,
I, I've said this before, even 

574
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,760
to the point of just speaking to
people as you walk, as you go 

575
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,800
out for a walk or whatever, or 
going out for a walk, 

576
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,560
exercising. 
These types of things are in and

577
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,600
of themselves acts of resistance
because we are encouraging 

578
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,560
increasingly encouraged to, to, 
to vegetate in front of ATV 

579
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,320
Don't. 
And, and you know, it's, it's, 

580
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,320
it's just choices. 
That's how, that's how we deal 

581
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,200
with this situation. 
Reject it and and live a 

582
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,160
different lifestyle. 
And I'm not as, as same with 

583
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,760
Charles. 
I'm not telling people anybody 

584
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,000
what to do or suggesting that 
it's an easy thing, but we've 

585
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,520
got to, we've got to remove the 
demand for convenience. 

586
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,400
Also, I think people over 
complicate these things, Mike, 

587
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,120
it's not that complicated. 
Just when you go buy food today,

588
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,640
think about where you are going 
to buy food. 

589
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,800
It's as simple as that. 
I mean, yes, I know. 

590
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,960
I mean, you know, the, the, I'm 
not, I'm not going to 

591
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,760
underestimate how hard it can be
to, to find someone who's 

592
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,600
willing to, first of all, 
finding someone who's providing,

593
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,240
who's producing the food of 
equality that we're talking 

594
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:11,920
about here. 
Second of all, finding someone 

595
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,800
that's doing that and is willing
to sell direct to the consumer 

596
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,840
and so on. 
This isn't necessarily the 

597
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,000
easiest, but you can go to a. 
Butcher, sorry, I'm 

598
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,320
interrupting, but you can go to 
a butcher. 

599
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,840
So I, I mean, I've done that. 
That's what I try and do as as 

600
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,280
as as a priority. 
You say that before by meat. 

601
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,360
But you say that, but our 
butcher, our butcher's gone. 

602
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,400
Our butcher, our butcher went 18
months ago because he retired 

603
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,480
and his kids were not, were not 
interested in taking right. 

604
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,200
So it's not necessarily that 
simple. 

605
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,320
I. 
Suppose and he. 

606
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,360
You know that the the the old 
style local butcher doesn't 

607
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,640
exist in very many cities 
anymore. 

608
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:55,520
Maybe if you're in a smaller 
town or a village that you're 

609
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,160
much more likely to find that. 
And maybe that's also part of 

610
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,560
the choice of lifestyle is, is 
where you live. 

611
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,840
That is also not an easy thing 
to change. 

612
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,760
None of this is easy, but you 
know, it's it's I believe that 

613
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,520
this all begins with the 
rejection of the easy and, and, 

614
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,840
and considering actually doing 
things that are hard and it's 

615
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,760
hard not. 
Straight to the narrow. 

616
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,480
Yeah, yeah. 
And it's it, it comes down to to

617
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,720
our personal morality and 
personal ethics and what what we

618
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:32,800
are prepared to accept. 
But I mean, I've done that. 

619
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,240
I mean, I've done that. 
I've tested my own, my own 

620
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:38,480
ethics. 
I, against my better judgement, 

621
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,560
decided to take a tour of an 
abattoir. 

622
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,360
And I actually strongly 
recommend people do this because

623
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,960
it will, it will severely, 
severely influence the way you 

624
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,960
think about meat that you 
consume. 

625
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,960
Because when you actually see 
what's going on, it's, it's, 

626
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,880
it's amazing how the theatre of 
the supermarket has adjusted and

627
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,080
has rewired the thinking of the 
average person. 

628
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,320
You don't think about where meat
comes from beyond the shelf. 

629
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,760
It's not just the supermarket, 
it's the whole education system.

630
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,600
You know, the kids these days 
don't even know where milk comes

631
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,120
from. 
And that's not, that's a cliche,

632
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,480
but we've heard it so many 
times. 

633
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,960
But it's actually not, it's not 
a false thing to say. 

634
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,680
I mean, there are, I know for a 
fact that there are kids in this

635
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:35,040
city that go to school, which is
no more than a mile from the sea

636
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,960
and they've never seen the sea, 
right? 

637
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:42,080
So, you know, kids don't know 
where their food comes from. 

638
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,320
It comes out of a packet that 
comes out of a a container of 

639
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,880
some kind. 
And and that that's but that's 

640
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,440
going into a whole other area. 
You know that that is a whole 

641
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,800
other discussion. 
Yeah, it's all, it's all 

642
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,600
marketing. 
I mean that that's really the 

643
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,640
the human fallibility is that 
when something. 

644
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,720
Is there and can be marketed 
people will take it up so my 

645
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:15,800
point earlier about the state of
this well, it's certainly not 

646
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,400
exclusive to the United Kingdom,
but the state of people's health

647
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,240
in a general sense. 
And you can look at this 

648
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:25,160
whichever way, but if you just 
take it on people's appearance 

649
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,240
and general sort of levels of 
fitness which have have 

650
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,200
absolutely deteriorated. 
And you cast your eye back to 

651
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,840
photographs from say the 1970s 
or 80s of sort of, you know, 

652
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,320
typically people on the beach 
because they're, you can see 

653
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,520
what condition they're in 
subsidy largely in kind of 

654
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,480
bathing suits. 
It's not because at that time, 

655
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,000
people in the 70s of 80s and 80s
had had sort of iron discipline 

656
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,120
and they absolutely refused to 
take on any of the things that 

657
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,640
we're talking about. 
It was just that those things 

658
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,160
didn't exist in quite the same 
way that they do now and they 

659
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,320
haven't been marketed. 
So at that point, people were 

660
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,280
consuming all the various things
that were being marketed at that

661
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,800
point. 
And tobacco is the obvious one. 

662
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,760
I mean, you know, you're finding
photographs from in particular 

663
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,360
the 70s and before smoking, of 
course, is, is completely 

664
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,800
prevalent in a way that it's not
today because there's another 

665
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,640
marketing con, you know, the, 
the whole vaping thing has gone 

666
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,960
on. 
So, so we are eternally 

667
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,640
predisposed to suck up the next 
trend, whatever that may be. 

668
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,960
And it doesn't have to be to do 
with with food. 

669
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,640
I mean, look at only this 
morning I was listening to a 

670
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,760
report that I must say, I really
couldn't believe, but there's a 

671
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,960
there's now AI mean. 
Obviously it's non clinical, but

672
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,640
I think it's called it's it's 
something like AI hypnosis. 

673
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,600
But it's, it's basically, it 
describes people who I know this

674
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,800
sounds perhaps laughable to AUK 
column audience, but people who 

675
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,360
have fallen into a sort of 
alternative reality where they 

676
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:10,240
believe that AI chat bots that 
they are talking to are real 

677
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:14,440
people and are actually invested
in their well being and the 

678
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,320
advancement of their lives. 
And this young chap from 

679
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,400
Scotland was interviewed about 
some relationship he'd struck up

680
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:27,360
with whatever chat bot it was 
after he'd lost a job. 

681
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,480
I don't know what the job was, 
but the point is this thing 

682
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,400
encouraged him to the point of 
him being completely and utterly

683
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,880
convinced that he would be a 
multi millionaire if only he did

684
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:42,600
XY and Z. 
And it wasn't, it wasn't I, I 

685
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,040
didn't mean it wasn't a scam. 
So, you know, put all your money

686
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,880
in this account and, and we'll 
convert it into whatever it was 

687
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,640
to I think it was to do with 
convincing him that if only he, 

688
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,280
you know, he made a series of 
sort of video documentaries 

689
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,000
about himself and wrote a book 
or something. 

690
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,520
The return on that would be in 
the region of £5,000,000. 

691
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,840
So it doesn't really matter what
the specifics are. 

692
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,080
But the point of it is that that
the marketing of AI in this case

693
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:09,240
is so all pervading that people 
are really, really struggling to

694
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:12,880
resist it. 
And, and indeed, if you are not 

695
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,480
sort of cognizant of this or 
you're not seeing sort of where 

696
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,920
the influences are coming from, 
then I would encourage you to go

697
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,960
and look just as A, to get a 
frame of reference, go and look 

698
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,520
at Elon Musk's Twitter or X 
account and look at the number 

699
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:33,360
of posts he puts out now about 
his grok, his XAI Grok thing, 

700
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,600
which, which is one of these 
chat bots. 

701
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,560
I don't want to talk about this 
for too long. 

702
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:38,720
So I find it's incredibly 
tedious. 

703
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:44,120
But but he, it's, it now has 
this thing called grok imagine. 

704
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,680
I think so. 
So now we are in a position 

705
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:52,160
where our very imaginations are 
being marketed away. 

706
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:58,280
So rather than encouraging that 
brain that stuck in your head to

707
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,920
give you an image of whatever it
is you instead are invited to go

708
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,920
on to, I suppose you have to go 
to Twitter in the 1st place and 

709
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,720
ask this thing called grok to, 
to conjure you a picture or a 

710
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,120
video of something that your 
brain is not going to imagine 

711
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,520
for itself. 
And yet people are doing it. 

712
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,400
It it so. 
So this is this is a marketing 

713
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,520
thing and to get to go back to 
what Angus was saying it it not 

714
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,640
only are we fallible or 
susceptible to marketing, but we

715
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,720
seem to absolutely believe what 
it is that's being inferred by 

716
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:39,600
the benefit of the marketing in 
the 1st place. 

717
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,600
And his example was free range 
eggs or free range chicken. 

718
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:49,440
Absolute lie upon lie upon lie. 
Yes, the idea has been made to 

719
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,520
suggest that, you know, that's 
kind of a chicken per acre. 

720
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,120
And they all get books to read 
and they have a great time and, 

721
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,120
and the reality is absolutely 
not the case. 

722
00:44:59,120 --> 00:44:59,600
They. 
Are. 

723
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,040
You are yeah, exactly. 
Yes. 

724
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,400
To imagine what life might be 
like if they weren't free range,

725
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,240
but they and they have access to
the outdoor should they choose 

726
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:10,720
to it. 
But of course it's set up in 

727
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:13,400
such a way that absolutely they 
won't be going out. 

728
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,480
So, so all, all of these things,
everything we talk about is all 

729
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,040
marketing. 
The, the another sort of again 

730
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,000
news item keeps coming up now is
the closure of banks and how 

731
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,880
it's presented in such a way as 
to be sympathetic to people who 

732
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,280
want to use banking services. 
You know, these poor old people 

733
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,640
who can't get to the bank and 
don't understand anything. 

734
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,040
And this that and the other, you
know, actually what, what, 

735
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,720
what's the, what is the 
underlying marketing inference? 

736
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,680
We're all destined for digital 
currency and that's it. 

737
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,960
Get on with it. 
So we have to be able to discern

738
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,000
where this marketing stuff is is
taking us. 

739
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,680
But also how incredibly gullible
perhaps is a bit strong, but it 

740
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,720
but it but it might be the right
word. 

741
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,280
How how gullible we are when it 
comes to marketing. 

742
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,680
People really need to evaluate 
absolutely what it is and look 

743
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,200
beyond when something is 
presented as free range or as 

744
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,640
even as regenerative actually, 
because Therese coffee again, I 

745
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,720
mean, what a caricature Therese 
coffee. 

746
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,200
Who was the agriculture minister
in the United Kingdom a couple 

747
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,480
of years ago who is overweight? 
Quite considerably. 

748
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,520
Well known for smoking cigars? 
OK, that's fine. 

749
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,160
Kenneth Clarke and drag, by the 
way. 

750
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Right. 
OK, yes, actually that's a 

751
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,760
fairpoint anyway. 
But she was absolutely making a 

752
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,720
case for the use of an extremely
deadly herbicide, which I've 

753
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:45,400
talked about a lot on the UK 
column News before glyphosate. 

754
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,040
She was making the case that 
glyphosate was absolutely a 

755
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,200
critical part of regenerative 
farming. 

756
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,000
So again, marketing regenerative
farming has been completely 

757
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,280
captured and the efforts of 
people like Angus are already 

758
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,760
being wilfully subverted in 
order to further corporate 

759
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,760
interest. 
Because guess what? 

760
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,920
You know, Jeff Bezos, Bill 
Gates, all those guys are all 

761
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,240
into this stuff and labelling it
regenerative. 

762
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:15,360
So we have, we do have to be 
very, very discerning and very 

763
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,680
critical about all of this stuff
that's presented to us. 

764
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Here in South Africa, I think it
was Woolworths. 

765
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,480
I might have it wrong, but there
was some lawsuit that involved 

766
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,080
them labelling a whole pile of 
their products as free range. 

767
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,240
But what they had done was that 
they had trademarked the term 

768
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,200
free range, which no longer 
means free range. 

769
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,680
It can mean anything which. 
Feeds, yeah. 

770
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,520
That's exactly what you're 
talking about, Charles. 

771
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:48,400
Yeah, it is. 
Yeah. 

772
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,680
Yeah. 
I mean you, you see it all the 

773
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,520
time. 
You get supermarket brands who, 

774
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,360
again, trademark names that have
farm in the title. 

775
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,520
So you have the idea that you're
buying something from a farm, 

776
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,040
but actually that's just the 
name of the business. 

777
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:08,480
Some somebody there, there was 
again another one, someone did 

778
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:14,240
it with, with sun dried tomatoes
and they they got round it by 

779
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:18,720
naming their oven sun dried or 
something. 

780
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,240
I can't remember exactly how it 
worked, but it but it was that 

781
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:22,480
cynical. 
It's like, it's like the only 

782
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,760
fools and horses Peckham spring 
water, if anyone remembers that.

783
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,160
But but, but this is it. 
And, and so you, you do 

784
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,880
absolutely have to have to look 
because the moment you've got 

785
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,440
these labels, the floodgates 
open and everybody comes out and

786
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:40,920
tries to jump on it. 
And, and, and so in a way, where

787
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,320
possible, I would say that 
actually the best thing to do is

788
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,480
to avoid the labels in the 1st 
place, because by our knowledge,

789
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,680
they are meaningless or, or at 
best, sort of disingenuous or 

790
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,680
maybe at worst. 
But, but yes, now, I mean, I 

791
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,600
every type of chicanery to, to, 
to, to get this. 

792
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,000
And also, let's face it, if 
we're considering, if we're, if 

793
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,480
we're still to consider a tall 
supermarket, I mean, if, if, if 

794
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,560
there's the thought that, well, 
you know, there, there are 

795
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,000
probably some things in the 
supermarket that that that must 

796
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,720
be OK or that must be, you know,
sort of ethically sourced or, or

797
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:17,560
whatever one wants to say. 
I would, I would say I doubt 

798
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,520
that very, very, very much 
indeed. 

799
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,320
Because to make it work, to be 
able to sell to a supermarket 

800
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,520
and operate on that basis, given
the margin that you're going to 

801
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,880
get on that and not to have cut 
significant corners in your 

802
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,400
business model, I would say is 
extremely, extremely unlikely to

803
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,160
the point of being not really 
possible. 

804
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,680
But also just to to be producing
on a scale that that they can 

805
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,280
carry that product. 
Yeah, precludes any kind of. 

806
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:44,800
Yeah, I think. 
I think there are some. 

807
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,280
I might be out of date, but I 
think budgeting, which 

808
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,440
admittedly is one of the smaller
ones, I think budgeting did 

809
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,160
attempt to have a process by 
which they were going to stock 

810
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,240
certain products on a local 
basis. 

811
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:01,640
So, so some of their buyers were
going to be able to be supplied 

812
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,600
in smaller quantities by 
businesses that were local to 

813
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,280
those particular supermarkets. 
But the same, the same probably 

814
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,120
still applies. 
But yes, absolutely that's 

815
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,480
another thing which takes us 
back to the start the the this 

816
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,800
whole idea of scalability and I 
suppose I mean Charles. 

817
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,200
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it 
but it, it seems that of course 

818
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,440
the other thing that we're used 
to is receiving product, you 

819
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,040
know, 365 days a year, 
strawberries in the winter and 

820
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,960
that kind of thing because 
industrialised growing in other 

821
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,480
countries and imports and 
whatnot. 

822
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:39,040
The other thing we need to do is
is to consider what a British 

823
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,360
diet should be. 
Well, that yes. 

824
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,560
I mean. 
That is true, but that that's 

825
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:49,280
that's potentially the start of 
intensely, I thought and very 

826
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:55,320
long debate because how does one
go back to a a particular point 

827
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,600
in time where you say, Yep, that
that is that those are the foods

828
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,040
that we should be eating? 
And is it not just as simple as 

829
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,120
saying well? 
That's not available locally at 

830
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,400
this time of the year. 
Well, to an extent, Although, 

831
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,600
although. 
I think the counter to that is 

832
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,280
that because because of the way 
in which horticulture in 

833
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,560
particular has has worked over 
centuries, the what? 

834
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,000
Well, what has now become 
effectively genetic 

835
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,800
modification, but was more 
conventional hybridization and 

836
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:31,320
selective breeding has meant 
that a vast number of species of

837
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:37,320
crops, cereals, but also fruits 
and vegetables are not in fact 

838
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,200
in any way naturally occurring. 
So I think it's easy to think, 

839
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,640
oh, wow, you know, strawberries,
for example, which which you do 

840
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,920
get wild strawberries. 
But but let's say strawberries 

841
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,840
are in season now or apples or 
pears or whatever it is are in 

842
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,000
season. 
But in that fact, when you look 

843
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,960
at the composition of those 
particular fruits or, or 

844
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,440
whatever they may be, they've 
been selectively bred in order 

845
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,320
that they have a higher say a 
higher fructose content or, or 

846
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,760
something that actually in terms
of 1's body's response to it. 

847
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:09,520
And in particular the creation 
of insulin are probably going to

848
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,600
be more harmful than anyone 
would ever consider. 

849
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:16,560
But that's, that tends to be a 
hurdle that we leap over 

850
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:19,760
blindfold because you just look 
at an apple tree and you think, 

851
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,280
well, I mean, you know, that's 
an apple tree. 

852
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,880
It can't be anything wrong with 
that. 

853
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,840
You know, it isn't anyone's been
tipping fertiliser all over it 

854
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,560
or any of that kind of thing. 
So it's got to be fine. 

855
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,120
But I, I think in actual fact, 
that's probably not the case. 

856
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,480
OK, You could take that on to, 
to livestock as well, because of

857
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,320
course there's been a huge 
amount of selective breeding 

858
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,600
there too. 
And in particular, the results 

859
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,240
of protein in milk, whether A1 
or A2. 

860
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:44,040
And, and if all of this is 
sounding like gobbledygook, then

861
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:47,440
I would refer back to an 
interview I recorded with John 

862
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,400
Cook, who's a dairy farmer, 
Royal Milk dairy farmer. 

863
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,520
The the title of the interview 
is, is Raw Truth. 

864
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,280
And, and John actually going 
back to the organisation thing, 

865
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:02,240
John has a fascinating life 
story because he changed the 

866
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:07,720
diet of his cattle at the same 
time as changing his own diet 

867
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:11,040
completely radically so. 
So the the process of, of 

868
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,240
getting organised and indeed the
multiplier effect from that, 

869
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,680
John is a phenomenal example 
because he's, he's been through 

870
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,520
himself, he's put his cattle 
through it. 

871
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,920
The benefits are absolutely 
undeniable and his business has 

872
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,240
thrived as a result. 
So I, I really would encourage 

873
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,240
people to go and listen to that,
that, that interview. 

874
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,800
I mean, obviously, as well as if
anyone hasn't listened to Germ 

875
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,520
talking to Angus Macintosh just 
recently, or indeed Angus's 

876
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,760
earlier UK column interview, 
which again, I think was called 

877
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,440
from the ground up, then then do
because that's just a wealth of 

878
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,640
information from people who not 
just know their stuff, but has 

879
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,920
actually done their stuff. 
And, and I think that's that 

880
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,320
those are great places to start.
I wanted to punch the wall. 

881
00:53:54,480 --> 00:54:00,440
When I read some of the comments
underneath that interview you 

882
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,960
did with Angus what year and a 
half ago, whenever it was, and 

883
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,120
it made me realise that there 
has been such a great 

884
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,440
psychological operation imposed 
on the average thinker that they

885
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,080
struggle to get past terminology
and labels. 

886
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,920
So the term sustainable has been
utterly hijacked. 

887
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,760
So when Angus talks about 
sustainable farming, people 

888
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,280
suddenly get all dismissive and 
they get funny about this 

889
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,880
because I think of the UN and 
oh, he's a grifter, he's a Shoal

890
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,360
and all this kind of stuff. 
And that that's why when I used 

891
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,160
the word sustainable. 
Earlier I said in the 

892
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,960
traditional sense of the world, 
but word, because that that that

893
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,120
word. 
This comes right back to, to, to

894
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,720
Charles's marketing point. 
That word has been trademarked 

895
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:49,080
effectively, it's sustainable 
doesn't mean sustaining 

896
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,400
something anymore. 
It, it means Agenda 2030. 

897
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,000
And, and so, and people are 
susceptible to this marketing 

898
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,840
and, and that applies to the, to
people that are considering 

899
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,640
themselves, you know, in 
opposition to, to, to that 

900
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,680
particular policy agenda. 
We have in the broadest sense, 

901
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:13,200
the word, we have fallen for the
same marketing campaign. 

902
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:18,080
And so anytime we see that word 
being used, we suddenly decide 

903
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:23,400
that that it's the person is a 
shell or they're shelling for 

904
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,080
Agenda 2030. 
It's not the case. 

905
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,200
Sustainable has a word, a 
meaning in English. 

906
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,720
And, and we need to start 
reclaiming these words and not 

907
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,800
being afraid to use these words 
in their traditional sense. 

908
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,120
And yeah, I mean, people need 
to, that's one of the things 

909
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,440
that that we all need to do in 
order to resist this thing is to

910
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:47,040
not immediately jump to 
conclusions just because a 

911
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,680
particular word is used. 
It it's it's like it's real 

912
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,320
Beavis and Butthead sort of 
stuff. 

913
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,800
And, and we need to, we need to 
stop that. 

914
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:55,440
I totally agree. 
Yeah. 

915
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:01,480
Again, that's that's all about 
mental attitude, mindset, all 

916
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,040
that stuff. 
You, you have to, you, you have 

917
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,520
to own that. 
You have to own that yourself. 

918
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,800
And, and, oh, we've probably 
mentioned it before, but why 

919
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,400
not, let's go again. 
The, the rainbow, the, the, the 

920
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,120
NHS doesn't own the rainbow, nor
do the, nor do the pride people.

921
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,920
They don't own the flipping 
rainbow. 

922
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,000
That, that is God's creation and
we are privileged to see it 

923
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:28,200
naturally occurring in the sky 
to great dramatic effect when 

924
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,400
the conditions are right. 
That's a rainbow. 

925
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:36,000
So any of this, the nonsense 
that that is meant to market a 

926
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,760
particular idea is, is 
secondary. 

927
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:48,400
So yes, I think we must try, or 
at least we must I, I would 

928
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:57,480
encourage people to try to be 
less, less responsive to, to 

929
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,000
again, what is exactly like Mike
describes, you know, it is 

930
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,640
another marketing exercise. 
We're supposed to conjure a 

931
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:07,320
particular idea of, of something
when, when we hear the word 

932
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,520
sustainable. 
But, but frankly, we should 

933
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,520
think about these things in 
their, you know, in their real 

934
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,400
terms. 
So I think it's very important. 

935
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,560
I'm going to focus on health. 
And I'm going to go on a 

936
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,000
comments section. 
Diet, I think I'll tell you, you

937
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,280
get caught up in that, in that 
it's not a rabbit hole. 

938
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:28,560
What is it? 
It's just it's just like this 

939
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,680
black hole. 
It just sucks you in sometimes. 

940
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,320
Sometimes it can be and and. 
It is a trap and you know, but 

941
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,440
this is, this is another area 
where where we need to resist. 

942
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:45,600
We need to resist the urge to 
post negative comments to each 

943
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,600
other and wind each other up and
so on. 

944
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,320
This it, it takes us into a bad 
psychological place. 

945
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:57,080
There's, there's a lot of, a lot
of negativity and in comments 

946
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,880
sections everywhere. 
And you know, but comments 

947
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:03,880
sections could equally be used 
to help people get organised. 

948
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,840
It's a choice again. 
All right. 

949
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,240
Well, I think that's a great 
note to come in for a landing my

950
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,720
controls as always, it's been a 
pleasure. 

951
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:14,960
I'll catch up with you guys next
week.