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Hello, I'm Charles Mallett with 
Auk column interview and today 

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I'm joined by Alan Hughes who is
a farmer. 

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Alan, a very warm welcome to UK 
column. 

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Thank you for taking some time 
out of your day to join me. 

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Thank you for having me. 
Not at all. 

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Now, Alan, timing is everything 
and when we arranged to speak, 

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it was because you were 
representing Farmers to Action. 

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Now the situation has changed 
somewhat in the last day in that

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Farmers to Action has disbanded 
or at least announced that it's 

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disbanded. 
But so we'll use that as a as a 

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vehicle to, you know, be able to
articulate exactly what has gone

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on. 
But let's just go back one what 

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was farmers to action and how 
how was it that you became 

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involved? 
Farmers to Action was set up as 

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a farm network to allow farmers 
to protest and get their voices 

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heard about IHT and the 
difficulties of making a profit 

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from food production to the 
public. 

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And how the supermarkets and 
large corporations make vast 

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amounts of profits off up as 
farmers and charge the public 

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far too much for food while we 
struggle to survive and you 

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struggle to pay for it. 
Very succinct. 

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It sounds almost like you've 
rehearsed that, but that's 

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absolutely to the point, which 
is perfect. 

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Now how, how is it that you had 
become involved and had taken on

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the role that you had? 
I'm not actually quite sure what

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that role was. 
Perhaps you could just talk a 

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little bit about how you were 
sort of making it work. 

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Well I started by when IHT came 
out and there was a protest in 

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London done by Ollie Blocks and 
several farmers. 

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I can get to London. 
So to support it I wanted a 

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local protest in our area, 
Shropshire. 

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So I organised the farmers to Go
slow protest from the livestock 

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market and from there several 
other people done the same thing

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and they said really we ought to
be getting this more joined up 

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so it's easy to go. 
And from their role too for 

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helping to organise action 
across the whole of the UK as 

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well as the Liverpool protests. 
And I went to several of the 

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conferences to make sure farmers
views and points are heard on 

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better agricultural policy, 
fairer prices for farmers and 

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fairer prices for the public. 
I was helping coordinate that. 

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And he has also never took on 
the responsibility of a 

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director. 
We've closed that down due to 

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escalating farmer tensions and 
some farmers talking about doing

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things that I couldn't support 
as a limited company. 

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And I said it's safer to 
dissolve it and then individuals

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can do what they like off their 
own back and not use our logo or

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pieces to be implemented in it. 
OK, we'll look, we'll get into 

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into the detail in a non 
hopefully sort of not too 

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intrusive a fashion in in due 
course. 

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But I think you've sort of got 
to the heart of the matter, 

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which is that there has been a 
great deal of focus on 

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inheritance tax, or at least the
announcement by the the the 

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Chancellor, Rachel Reeves and 
the proposed plan for the 

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changes to inheritance tax, or 
at least as expressed by 

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agricultural property relief 
will will come to that in 

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specific detail. 
But you talk about the idea that

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that a campaign should be 
conducted not just in one place,

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but you know, you're, you're in 
Shropshire and you know, there 

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is obviously a focus on London 
because of the Westminster 

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government being in London. 
But just talk to me a bit about 

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how this does work in terms of a
network as such and how there 

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has been a degree of 
coordination through regions and

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how exactly does that work and 
what are what are the 

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difficulties associated with it?
Well, the main difficulty is 

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every farmer is their own boss 
and it's very difficult to get 

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them to agree on what actions 
they afford. 

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And if they don't agree, they'll
go off and do things anyway, 

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which can have repercussions for
those who haven't planned it. 

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So we've set up county groups. 
There's many other protest 

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groups around the country for 
different areas, but most work 

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on a county by county basis and 
they can put through this is 

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what we're thinking of doing. 
What do you think? 

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What's this date work for you? 
And then you will try and get it

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on the same sort of date. 
So it's not just one place at a 

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time, which isn't really a 
story, but all over the country 

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and in London if needed or not. 
Because yes, the government is 

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in London, but there's protests 
in London every single day and 

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you see nothing of it on the 
news and the MPs are deaf to it.

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But when it's on their own 
doorstep where people are voting

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for them, they actually start to
listen because the last thing 

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they want is that the next set 
of election for their voters or 

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constituents go, I'm not paying 
for you because look what 

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happened here, you're not 
helping these people and it's 

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affecting us locally. 
Look how many of us have come to

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come to show our support and 
want change. 

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That then makes the individual 
MPs sit up, listen and have 

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discussions and then it gets fed
to government rather than just 

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ignored because of what's going 
on outside the Houses of 

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Parliament. 
OK, that's a very good point. 

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And I would hazard a guess that 
everybody watching and listening

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will be able to think of 
countless examples of protests 

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or indeed anything else being 
ignored by central government. 

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Are you able to point to any 
specific examples of a success 

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or a qualified success in 
response to some action that has

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been conducted locally in in 
your area? 

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Almost all of our farmers by 
areas have been invited to 

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meetings with their local MPs. 
Had local MPs come to their 

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farms as direct result. 
Open dialogue. 

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Multiple emails to and back and 
forth. 

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Opening dialogue. 
Invites to policy meetings. 

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Invites to Liberal Derekat 
conference invites. 

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The Reform conference allowed 
into the Conservative 

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conference. 
The only one we weren't allowed 

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into was Labour conference but 
we have had many backbenchers 

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privately staking their concerns
at what's going on and that they

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are not in support of what is 
happening and that is swells 

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rumours. 
I expect around this the bit 

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destabilised situation in 
Parliament at the moment. 

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So I'd say there's many 
successes and far too numerous 

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to count. 
OK, so the on the engagement 

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front, absolutely positive. 
I, I absolutely recognize. 

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Now I'm going to ask you a 
question that you might consider

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slightly facetious, but it's not
intended to be so at all. 

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I think it's really important 
place to start because 

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agriculture as we might consider
it and everybody of course has 

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their own perspective on exactly
what that means has changed a 

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huge amount over the last, let's
say 200 years in particular. 

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What in in your mind, and indeed
in the way that Farmers to 

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Action and perhaps other groups 
are sort of coordinated and 

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focusing, what is the role of a 
farmer in the United Kingdom in 

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2025? 
Well, we're custodians of the 

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land. 
Some own it, some, like myself, 

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rent it. 
It's our job to make sure it is 

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maintained a good habitat and 
make sure it is left in a better

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state than which we should have 
received it, and to provide food

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which is nutritious, sustainable
and healthy for the general 

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public. 
Problem we've got is government 

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policies such as additives to 
milk, which I won't name, are 

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against this. 
Some environmental policies do 

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not understand the environment 
or the countryside. 

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Rewilding by removing livestock 
completely leaves. 

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It goes wild, it's no longer 
eaten by livestock, so it sets a

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fire. 
If it doesn't set a fire, the 

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small wildflowers and habitats 
are destroyed by being smothered

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by vegetation or eating, and 
there's no manure from the 

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livestock to fertilize it. 
So rewilding is not 

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environmentally friendly, 
management of the land is, which

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we've done for hundreds if not 
thousands of years and should be

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left to be planned and organised
by farmers, not by people in 

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offices which have never worked 
a day in their life in their 

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industry. 
Not not just in farmers case, 

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it's in fisheries cases and 
almost all other land based 

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industries. 
OK, OK, Yeah, that that's 

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fantastic. 
And I think that's a, that's a 

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great start point. 
The, the immediate difficulty 

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with setting out those 
conditions, as it were, is that 

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the situation at the, at the 
current moment is that the vast 

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majority of people who do have 
agricultural holdings are 

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dependent in some way on receipt
of some sort of government 

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subsidy. 
And therefore, if the government

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are going to make such and such 
a payment, it is up to them as 

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to what the terms of that 
agreement are. 

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Or at least that's the way that 
it's being set out. 

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So for, you know, rewild is 
rewilding is a very, very good 

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example. 
What, what, what is your view? 

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What's the, what's the sort of 
the view or the consensus come 

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to be on the relationship that 
farmers should have with 

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government, if any? 
And and of course we, we can't 

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ignore the the financial side of
this. 

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Well, I can only speak 
personally, but I think that 

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anyone in a business that is not
allowed to set their own prices.

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We are the only business which 
we are told the price received 

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by government and by 
corporations due to the 

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government's legislations and 
way they've set things out. 

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If that is the case, then 
whatever those figures be, it 

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needs to be profitable, 
sustainable, actually provide 

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good for the environment, not 
perceived on paper actual 

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wildlife habitats and gear that 
you can see, which is the way 

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people already farm. 
You look at mono cropping, so 

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rewilding, focusing on what 
government's doing that damages 

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the environment because they 
don't know what they're doing. 

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So if they're going to put a 
policy in place, it should be 

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designed by farmers, not by 
people in suits which are 

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causing more damage than they 
are actually fixing due to 

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unintentional acts just through 
ignorance or lack of knowledge 

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of the situation. 
Yeah, OK. 

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Well, actually, funnily enough, 
yesterday, or at least we're 

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recording on Friday, there was a
debate in the House of Lords 

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yesterday on what's described as
biodiversity. 

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And you know, the sort of 
lamentation that since this 

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Labour government took over, 
there's been a, there's been a 

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loss of biodiversity and, and 
whatnot. 

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I think unless you've really 
been paying attention, there has

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been a very, very obvious and 
wilful conflation of several 

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different things. 
But most obviously what's being 

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described as biodiversity and 
what is described as a climate 

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emergency. 
Now, I I don't want to get you 

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into too much hot water 
necessarily, but, but is there a

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climate emergency in your view? 
And if so, or if not, what are 

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the drivers of such a thing? 
My personal thought is there's 

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always an emergency of some sort
when anyone wants to generate 

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more tax. 
Whether it was the Ice Age in 

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the 80s, acid rain, the loss of 
carbon, solar energy, climate 

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has never been fixed. 
It's always been fluid from the 

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Ice Age into the 80s, heat wave 
in the early 20s and the fact 

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you could walk across the 
channel during Roman times. 

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Our world is ever evolving, ever
changing wherever it's due to 

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carbon, which is a very small 
amount of the atmosphere, the 

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strength of the sun, or other 
factors that we do not yet know 

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or fully understand. 
I would be very surprised if one

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year is not different to the 
next every year. 

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All you can do is your best 
effort through I'd state old 

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fashioned methods, the proven 
testing methods of do the best 

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you can, improvise, adapt and 
overcome. 

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Yeah, well, on a personal note, 
I think I would go along with 

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you there, especially on the, 
the expectation or the absurd 

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expectation that one year in 
terms of weather or climate 

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would be identical to the one 
proceeding or succeeding it. 

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The problem of course is that 
the way that environmental Land 

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Management schemes are set out 
is that they are predicated on 

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policy that has come from 
without, say for example, the 

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the the drive. 
And this was mentioned in the in

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the Lords yesterday, you know, 
the, the sustainable markets 

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initiative with the push for 30 
by 30. 

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You know, 30% of EU KS land mass
in what's called nature recovery

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by 20-30. the United Nations 
sustainable development goals in

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effect, a lot of policy 
decisions being made outside of 

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Westminster with absolutely no 
input from the farming 

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community. 
And yet those are the binding 

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factors which dictate the 
legislation from which the 

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financial support to the farming
industry comes. 

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Is that a an issue that is being
taken on directly with the sorts

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of engagements that you're 
talking about? 

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It's very difficult to address 
situations like this when you're

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dealing multi million to multi 
billion, some cases trillion 

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companies which are pushing an 
agenda. 

227
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,400
And there is always ties if you 
look deeply enough between one 

228
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:41,880
individual and other 
individuals. 

229
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,400
But basically, if you follow the
money, you can normally see 

230
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,440
where things are coming from in 
greening. 

231
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,280
Solar panels, wind turbines are 
big business, very big business,

232
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,800
and they're not as green as 
people think. 

233
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,040
A lot of their stuff can't even 
be recycled. 

234
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,760
The damage from mining the 
components for them is arguably 

235
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,880
more detrimental than the good 
they receive. 

236
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,800
But if you get to the crux, 
follow the money, you can see 

237
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,720
why it's pushed so hard, 
especially when you look at 

238
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,520
donations to different 
organisations, parties and 

239
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,360
individuals. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

240
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,720
No, Obviously the the we've, 
we've skirted around the issue 

241
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,600
to a certain extent. 
You mentioned it right at the 

242
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,240
front, inheritance tax and the 
change I think, I think for the 

243
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,840
in the interest of clarity, we 
should be quick to point out 

244
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,800
that this is a situation that 
changed only in 1992 with the 

245
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,040
100% relief in the 1st place. 
And and also that it's not just 

246
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,200
agricultural property relief but
also business property relief. 

247
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,720
Just in a nutshell, what is the 
issue with the proposed change 

248
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:57,440
from the 6th of April next year?
No profitability as I stated our

249
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,320
prices are fixed by us, the 
supermarkets and the governments

250
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,560
are making record prices like 
never seen before while we are 

251
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,440
on the smallest margins ever. 
Def for his own statistics of 

252
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,120
return on investment on farming 
with 2023 to 23. 

253
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,880
Four which are the latest leaks 
is now minus nought .8 for food 

254
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,920
production minus. 
That's the key point here. 

255
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,120
You look back in the 90s and the
80s there was good profit in 

256
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:25,920
farming. 
You'd have to be an idiot to 

257
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,640
lose money now. 
If you haven't got an Afghan 

258
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,680
degree, a full office team to 
fill out all the brothical red 

259
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,000
tape and rubbish forced on you, 
you haven't got a hope of 

260
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,240
surviving, let alone maintaining
your business. 

261
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,640
And very little chance of 
thriving is the money has been 

262
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,240
forced out of the job for 
supermarkets and its big players

263
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,720
and leaving the farmers 
stranded. 

264
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,080
And the big issue we've got here
because it's been done before. 

265
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,520
We've had Labour governments 
before World War One and Two 

266
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,520
which destroyed the agricultural
industry and then we almost 

267
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:02,280
started when we went to war, 
where arguably the most unstable

268
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,960
time in the world's history 
since World War Two could easily

269
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,520
be into difficult situation of 
either imports or war and they 

270
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,240
are destroying the home, food, 
national security. 

271
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,920
I think it's madness and immoral
to be going down this current 

272
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,000
route. 
And, and sorry, just to be 

273
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,680
specific, when you say the 
current route, you mean to 

274
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,600
change the threshold on 
inheritance tax? 

275
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,080
Both because threshold of 
inheritance tax means that the 

276
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,920
only people should be able to 
afford to buy businesses and 

277
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,040
farms and sold is large 
corporations from abroad which 

278
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,080
would not pay into the tax 
system anyway other than when 

279
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,040
they paid stamp duty. 
So you're taking money out of 

280
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,080
GDP and the tax and increasing 
the burden on the general public

281
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,440
while reducing food security and
food availability. 

282
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,840
That further increases food 
inflation and the cost of living

283
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,120
to the general public for no 
benefit to anybody bar foreign 

284
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,600
investment and shareholders. 
It is an incredibly dangerous 

285
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,440
and slippery slope which 
undermines our food security and

286
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,960
our national national security 
in one fell swoop. 

287
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,079
Yeah, And 2025, there's been an 
awful lot of discussion 

288
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,280
predicated on the idea of 
national security and exactly 

289
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,000
what that means. 
The security, the National 

290
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,920
Security Strategy was published 
this year, as was the Strategic 

291
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,079
Defense Review. 
Both talk about resilience via 

292
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:32,200
having a robust supply chain 
into not just food but but in 

293
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,640
all respect. 
And yet the, you know, from what

294
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,400
you're describing, there's 
actually very little being done 

295
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,640
in a way to affect that, 
certainly not via any sort of 

296
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,320
joined up initiative or indeed 
communication with those that 

297
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:47,880
are supposed to provide the food
security. 

298
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,200
The other issue with food 
security, of course is that it's

299
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,400
not actually enshrined in law 
anywhere that the government 

300
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,120
must pursue food security. 
It's only referenced 3 times on 

301
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,120
the statute book and only then 
in passing reference to how to 

302
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,760
design an environmental Land 
Management scheme in that it, it

303
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,960
may be a consideration, but it's
never actually a priority. 

304
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,040
Is that intentional to your 
mind? 

305
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,280
Or I mean, you know, why would 
that be the case? 

306
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,360
If it, if the same government is
going to write documents and say

307
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:25,640
we need XY and Z in order to say
that we have some sense of 

308
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,280
national security and yet they 
don't enshrine in law anything 

309
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,200
concerning food security. 
What what? 

310
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,680
What is 1 to take from that? 
I'd say it's short sighted, or 

311
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,520
it could be construed as 
allowing for profiteering. 

312
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,600
You've got to remember that some
of the largest donators to these

313
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,560
parties are corporations that 
own supermarkets, import and 

314
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,880
export companies and situation 
like that does benefit them 

315
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,480
greatly. 
Regardless. 

316
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,640
The fact that worldwide food 
production is actually being 

317
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,400
reduced due to pushing through 
solar panels, greening and 

318
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,320
reworlding, and almost every 
country in the western world is 

319
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,480
protesting against these facts 
in government. 

320
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,160
Larger turnovers, smaller 
margin, more expensive 

321
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,600
machinery, more bureaucracy and 
cost, but less availability to 

322
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:17,640
produce food and more statements
of reducing dairy and meat which

323
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,160
means more reliance on chemical 
fertilizers because without 

324
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,240
those livestock you do not have 
the manure for the buyer to 

325
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,320
firstly to feed your crops. 
And that further increases the 

326
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,200
cost of production as you rely 
more heavily on chemical 

327
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,160
fertilizers and sprays to keep 
the crops. 

328
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,520
It's very poor thinking, but 
what it does do is drive at 

329
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,480
corporate profits due to 
reliance on chemicals imports 

330
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,480
and foreign globalization. 
Yeah, I think that's a very good

331
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,680
point well made. 
And it's something that people 

332
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,120
in, in large part probably don't
fully understand, but we just 

333
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,520
just flesh that out a bit more 
the the input side of it. 

334
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,680
And how, because going back to 
this idea of biodiversity and, 

335
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,280
and sort of in a way wanting to 
have it both ways, wanting to 

336
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,080
say, yes, well, we're producing 
XY and Z food. 

337
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,120
We're reducing the amount of 
land that can be used to provide

338
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,800
food. 
And there's a sort of implicit 

339
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,200
expectation. 
That artificial inputs won't be 

340
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,520
used, but in actual fact, people
are put in a very difficult 

341
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,800
position and in effect are are 
more or less forced to to use 

342
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,760
such inputs. 
Would that would that be the way

343
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,840
that you might put it or could 
you just go into a bit more 

344
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,800
detail? 
They're they're completely 

345
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,720
contradicting themselves. 
They're demanding that you don't

346
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,080
use chemicals and fertilizers 
yet when you're asking for 

347
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,120
higher yields of lower acreage, 
there's no option but to to use 

348
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,200
those things. 
Now we buck the trend a bit. 

349
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,760
At home, we are rented, so we 
have no choice but to make sure 

350
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,560
we can cover the cost. 
We do not have the buffer of 

351
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,840
land to sell if you don't. 
So we keep everything in house. 

352
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,680
We grow our own corn and straw 
to feed the livestock. 

353
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,560
It's not human grade on there. 
The livestock and the cattle are

354
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,960
fed using silage corn and straw 
in the winter when it's too wet 

355
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,920
like now and preserve groups, 
but their manure fertilizes the 

356
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,200
crops, the ground, etcetera. 
Therefore we use only one, maybe

357
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,280
2 spreads of fertilizer a year 
and very rarely do we use any 

358
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,520
chemical at all on our crops. 
But that is bucking the trend. 

359
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,920
If we did not have the livestock
to feed the crops, we'd be 

360
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,560
reliant on the fertilizer, and 
if we didn't have the crops and 

361
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,640
straw to litter the cattle 
through the winter, we'd be 

362
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,600
reliant on buying that of large 
corporations who are using 

363
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,520
chemicals and fertilizer to 
survive. 

364
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,280
It also helps us wherever the 
current storms as arable crops 

365
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,120
are pretty much the lowest price
they've ever been pushing 

366
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,040
towards the 80s on it, yet the 
cost of production is now well 

367
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:59,040
over the cost of being paid. 
So it's a very strange situation

368
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,920
we're in when you can import 
things from countries that you 

369
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,240
can't really prove where they've
come from and not have to be 

370
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,720
done to sell welfare, health or 
Food Standards that we have to, 

371
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,920
as British farmers with no 
paperwork can freely be imported

372
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:19,640
and put through the same food 
processes into human 

373
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,440
consumption. 
Whereas CAT. 

374
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:23,400
Yeah. 
OK. 

375
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,400
So a lot of contradictions 
there. 

376
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,400
Let's talk about the, as you 
say, the idea that we should be 

377
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,800
reducing, you know, in the name 
of supposedly a climate 

378
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,720
emergency. 
Apparently somehow eating less 

379
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,120
meat and dairy and animal 
products is going to make a 

380
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,880
difference. 
It's never really been 

381
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,440
satisfactory explained how that 
would affect itself. 

382
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,080
But quite like you say, that 
means that the ground is not 

383
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,760
being fertilizers, not it's not 
having, you know, the the same 

384
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,880
amount of sort of carbon 
absorption as it as it would 

385
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,040
have otherwise. 
That is a massive contradiction.

386
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,960
But you do talk about what 
you're doing as as bucking A 

387
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,880
trend. 
Are you suggesting then that the

388
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,600
majority of farmers are becoming
more intensive and more 

389
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,400
industrialized or, or or do you 
mean that there is just still an

390
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,280
an overwhelming majority of 
people doing it that way? 

391
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,840
Well you have two options if you
wish to survive. 

392
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,960
Farmers are going bust at record
numbers and record weights, 

393
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,440
especially over the last 12 
months, and suicide levels due 

394
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,880
to the pressure have never been 
higher before and even more so 

395
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,600
have IHT. 
So you have two options. 

396
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,600
You either go down the rewilding
route, except you do what they 

397
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,920
want to do, whether it's 
damaging to your land under 

398
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,480
control and a lot of people see 
those numbers and haven't the 

399
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,160
ability to do the costs. 
So we've worked out that if we 

400
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,720
done what was put on the paper, 
we'd lose more money in from 

401
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760
than we would put if we got it 
in production as we are. 

402
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:57,960
So I'll put that in clear 
English. 

403
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,520
If I did what they are asking us
to on the rented farm, I would 

404
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,560
not be able to afford my rent. 
Whereas by doing it sustainably 

405
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,520
and smartly and watching my 
figures through producing very 

406
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:15,040
effectively, very efficiently, 
using crop rotations, manure, 

407
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,680
livestock, venous cycle, I can 
make a profit to survive. 

408
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,320
I should be able to thrive doing
something like this. 

409
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,840
But finally, at the moment no 
one is. 

410
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,240
Everyone is suffering. 
Now the bigger issue is we're 

411
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,600
input told to import food. 
Food produced here by grass, 

412
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,800
mostly beef, dairy, lamb and 
sheep is by far the best carbon 

413
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,920
efficient way of doing it in the
world. 

414
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:45,480
It is actually, if you include 
photosynthesis, carbon negative.

415
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,560
We're capturing more carbon than
we're using. 

416
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,120
But they don't allow that 
though. 

417
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,360
Everyone who goes to school 
learns that that is how carbon 

418
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:52,720
is sequenced through 
photosynthesis. 

419
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,720
So the mass used is raw. 
But if you're importing it 

420
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,280
instead, you're having it from 
other countries doing high 

421
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,800
ration feeding through arable 
intense systems, deforestration,

422
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,280
the Amazon to grow soy crops to 
feed it and feed lots. 

423
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,560
You are fueling the damage to 
the environment and then to add 

424
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,280
salt or insult to injury you are
shipping it to the country to 

425
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,240
eat rather than having it 
locally. 

426
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,240
So it's low food miles for a 
sustainable way. 

427
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:27,280
You are actually doing better. 
Good to drink milk from the UK. 

428
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,840
Eat British meat van importing 
vegetables for from abroad to 

429
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,040
have a lower meat and dairy 
input diet. 

430
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,000
Your carbon footprint would be 
far higher importing avocados 

431
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,640
from South America and Mexico or
vegetables in Spain than eating 

432
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,920
seasonal vegetables and food 
grown here. 

433
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:52,760
So I don't see the argument for 
improving environment by not 

434
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,360
eating meat and dairy. 
I see as if you want meat and 

435
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,280
dairy, eat it from here, don't 
import it. 

436
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,600
OK. 
And then, you know, the, the, 

437
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,320
the obvious sort of follow up 
there as well that that's an 

438
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,200
easy win. 
Then, you know, the public just 

439
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,960
changed their behaviour and hey 
presto, everything works out. 

440
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,840
But obviously it's not that 
simple. 

441
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,680
The, the public do have the 
ability to change the situation,

442
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,200
you know, notwithstanding the 
fact that we are, we absolutely 

443
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,040
we are where we are. 
You're, you've talked about 

444
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,800
engagement with politicians, 
with other farming groups and 

445
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,320
presumably sort of across the 
industry to a certain extent. 

446
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,400
How do you feel the engagement 
with the general public? 

447
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,480
I know that's a that's a very, 
very broad sort of term and 

448
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,880
broad question, but how is that 
engagement affecting itself? 

449
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,320
Well, I think we've never had 
more public support than now and

450
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,480
it is growing pretty much in the
same way that the government is 

451
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,960
getting less each day. 
Common sense shows that we are 

452
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,200
being steered to disaster and 
that we should be buying food 

453
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,440
locally that is nutritious, not 
imported from anywhere, using 

454
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,520
chemicals which are banned here 
due to being carcinogenic 

455
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,360
processes. 
We do not know and not know 

456
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,000
what's in there. 
Is a boat being unloaded at 

457
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,720
ports? 
I think it was last week on a 

458
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,520
video or two, covered in 
pigeons. 

459
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,960
Now if you didn't, if you got 
anything like that on a lorry or

460
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,200
on a British feed store, your 
entire load would be he 

461
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,080
condemned it. 
That was being unloaded and 

462
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,320
taken to a feed mill for human 
consumption. 

463
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,960
You can't get much more double 
standards really. 

464
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,720
So I think the public support is
there. 

465
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,560
Yes, it helped. 
They changed a little bit of 

466
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,280
attitude towards seasonal 
eating. 

467
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,360
But the biggest change is the 
supermarkets putting what they 

468
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:48,760
do on the shelves in the name of
profit and profiteering off you 

469
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,200
and me. 
The average market now in the 

470
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,320
supermarket is 3 to 400%. 
In the 90s it was 50%. 

471
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,560
That pretty much tells you 
everything you need to know. 

472
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,560
They took an older margin out 
for themselves and squeezed us 

473
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,680
and you in the name of profit, 
that new sort. 

474
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,160
It does. 
OK, now what's the answer? 

475
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,480
Because the Groceries Code 
Adjudicator is supposed to be 

476
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,360
the admittedly one man band, 
which seems completely 

477
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,880
extraordinary bearing in mind 
the scope of his sort of 

478
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,880
workflow. 
He is meant to be the interface 

479
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,560
in, in sense of fairness between
farmers and supermarkets. 

480
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,240
Does that seem to you like a 
sincere effort by government to 

481
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,720
resolve problems that may arise?
It's designed to fail in my 

482
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,120
opinion. 
It has no teeth. 

483
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,440
Not enough teeth to make any 
actual difference. 

484
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,080
The fines are too small to make 
a supermarket consider adhering 

485
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,880
to it when they can make plenty 
more profit by not. 

486
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:55,360
We'd be better off bringing in 
livestock boards, dairy, meat, 

487
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,000
vegetable boards which are 
owning cooperatives by farmers 

488
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,560
so that they can negotiate 
themselves with them a fair, 

489
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,240
reasonable price like we used to
in the 90s, rather than being 

490
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,840
abolished like they were in the 
aim of slightly more profit and 

491
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,640
then being taken over. 
So the farmers dictated the 

492
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,640
price to by the supermarket. 
The farmer told you take it or 

493
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,560
you get nothing and go back, 
Brooke. 

494
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,040
OK, so, so how does this, how 
does this jungle get get sort of

495
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,320
turned onto a, a different 
course? 

496
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,840
You know, again, we, we keep 
coming back to it. 

497
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,040
We are where we are. 
Corporate power in the food 

498
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,760
industry is absolutely 
monumental. 

499
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,040
Corporate influence upon 
government is extraordinary. 

500
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,880
And yet the vast majority of 
people, even if they think that 

501
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,480
they are wanting to or actually 
supporting British farmers, are 

502
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,120
more than likely shopping in 
supermarkets where they really 

503
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,800
have no idea of the provenance 
of anything that they might be 

504
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,480
choosing. 
What's in your view or indeed 

505
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,720
across the the sort of networks,
you know, in so far as farmers 

506
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,760
to action was concerned? 
What is the view on that? 

507
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,240
I mean, how does one begin to 
make meaningful progress that 

508
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,240
has a, you know, has a benefit 
across the piece in terms of not

509
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,480
just finances for the for the 
farmers concerned, but also for 

510
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,160
the landscape and all the other 
things you describe? 

511
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,560
Well, to start with you ask 
people to die, buy direct as 

512
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,560
much as they possibly can, 
whether that's from farm shops, 

513
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,800
green grocers, butchers, local 
markets. 

514
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,000
You actually know where the 
things have come from. 

515
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,280
Not that it's just arrived in a 
plastic package and had a stamp 

516
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,360
put on it. 
That's the quickest and easiest 

517
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,320
thing you can do. 
There is groups out there now 

518
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,000
which shows directories of where
farm shops are, farms, markets 

519
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,520
and places and helps people get 
involved in that. 

520
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,560
We've pushed on councils and on 
policies and make it easier for 

521
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,040
farmers to get planning 
permission to diversify so they 

522
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,280
can do end of product sales, so 
they can convert some milk to 

523
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,840
cheese or end products or sell 
some of it direct rather than 

524
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,920
just for the process, the same 
butchery. 

525
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,080
But in the long term we need 
farm cooperatives and we're 

526
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,560
talking to farmers about it to 
build those cooperatives for 

527
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,000
group negotiations so that we 
are having the talks with the 

528
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,000
supermarkets and processors. 
And when supermarkets council 

529
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,200
contract, dictate unfair terms, 
there's people there to help and

530
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,280
support them rather than them 
just left to be. 

531
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,400
You take it and leave or you 
leave it. 

532
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,120
Do you want to get recoup some 
money and make little profit or 

533
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160
a small loss but enable you to 
go again next year? 

534
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Or do you want to lose the lot 
and be forced to sell it for 

535
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,680
livestock feed at a large loss? 
Especially in the case of 

536
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,120
vegetables, it's very often done
on the meat side. 

537
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,480
Again, lobbying to get better 
prices on the dairy side. 

538
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Has the price of milk gone down 
now? 

539
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,360
It's gone up, yet the dairies 
are having monthly now price 

540
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,600
cuts per litre pretty much to 
the cost of production. 

541
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,480
Is that fair? 
And again, and against their 

542
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,560
so-called new conduct, no, it's 
not fair. 

543
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,520
Yes, it is against the new 
contact board. 

544
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,480
Is anybody doing anything about 
it? 

545
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,200
No. 
So farmers need to be acting 

546
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:19,200
together on group negotiations 
to make change, but that takes 

547
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,240
time and cooperation. 
It does and, and this is what I 

548
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,520
want to get to without I, I 
certainly, I'm not going to ask 

549
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,480
you at all to, you know, expose 
any sort of personal 

550
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,480
fractiousness that may have 
occurred in, in groups that 

551
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,760
you've been working with. 
And, and in particular the, the 

552
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,960
sort of disbandment of farmers 
to action. 

553
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,280
But as you said yourself 
earlier, farmers are their own 

554
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,360
bosses. 
Now this for for some is well, 

555
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,040
it, it might be on the one hand 
enormously appealing. 

556
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,800
Obviously with it comes a huge 
amount of challenge and 

557
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960
responsibility. 
With that in mind, and you've 

558
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920
just been speaking about 
cooperatives, this idea of 

559
00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,560
cohesion and unity. 
Just give us an insight into how

560
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,920
that can be achieved, given the 
background to it, which is that 

561
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,040
farmers are gloriously 
independent in some ways. 

562
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,360
It's quite difficult. 
It's unbelievably difficult to 

563
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,120
do. 
Everybody has their own opinion 

564
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,240
and things to be done 
differently, so it needs to be 

565
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,360
done by majority vote and agreed
upon a fair sequence of things 

566
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,360
in which you wish to do that 
from the start. 

567
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,440
And I think it's putting people 
together of like minds. 

568
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,440
There's no point having beef 
farmers on a dairy farm group. 

569
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,240
You need to have dairy farmers 
working together to agree on 

570
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,960
what would assist them, what is 
a fair price, and then you vote 

571
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,080
in representatives to do your 
negotiation. 

572
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,400
You've got your red lines, 
that's what you want. 

573
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,720
And if you need to do withdrawal
of product or something, then 

574
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,640
you've already got that work 
done in place before you start 

575
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,360
your negotiation. 
The green upon, not after the 

576
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,920
fact. 
Same As for arable, you need 

577
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,840
arable farmers on there, people 
who understand the cost, the 

578
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,560
figures and the commodities 
market. 

579
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,080
Not just I plant here, I hope to
get X amounts. 

580
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,960
You need the boys who knows the 
figures on there. 

581
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,960
You agree what you want, how you
want it, what rules work. 

582
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000
And you then go to the mills and
the cereal agencies and get that

583
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,320
sorted. 
And on the beef, you do the same

584
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,320
with the abattoirs, the crop 
growers for vegetables, you do 

585
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,080
the same, but through the 
grocery board. 

586
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,080
And you find a good lawyer 
system which is willing to go 

587
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,280
after these people when it's 
required rather than just hoping

588
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,560
that the government will do it. 
But that's comes in time through

589
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,000
membership and through planning 
and 12 months to do it. 

590
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,199
Since the IHT, yes, that has 
stirred farmers to want change, 

591
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,800
galvanized the site, never 
before to do it. 

592
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,000
The 12 months isn't enough time 
to do something like that. 

593
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,840
It'll take 18 months really to 
get anything like that locked 

594
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,840
in. 
And there's certainly the room 

595
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,920
for it. 
You could argue it should be 

596
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,240
doing being done by existing 
organizations, but so far it's 

597
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:16,920
not being done in the money in 
which the grassroots farmers can

598
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,320
feel a difference. 
OK. 

599
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,320
And and just so just so we 
understand completely what the 

600
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,360
system you're describing, is 
that something that would be 

601
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,280
done geographically? 
Do you mean the region would 

602
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,080
have would have a sort of an 
ability to do that or you're 

603
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,000
talking something that's more 
centralized or how, how would 

604
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,160
it, how would it work? 
In an ideal world, you'd want it

605
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,760
national, so you've set it out 
like you do Young Farmers and 

606
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,360
other organizations. 
You have somebody who holds your

607
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,560
meeting in each county. 
Why resume or in person? 

608
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,880
You vote on your pieces and that
feeds up to regional and then 

609
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,400
national. 
And you write a policy and 

610
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,160
everyone votes on it. 
All votes for your amendments, 

611
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,880
and then you send them to 
negotiate for you all as a 

612
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,760
whole. 
That way you've got proper clout

613
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,160
over the country rather than 
just one group with one lot of 

614
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,720
processes. 
And if they don't like it, that 

615
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,560
process will cancel milk 
contracts and increase the 

616
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,600
number of contracts in a 
different area in the country. 

617
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,240
If it's over the whole country, 
you've actually got a chance to 

618
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,640
affect it. 
OK. 

619
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:25,160
And without wanting to seem 
overly cynical, what do you rate

620
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,960
the chances of success on that, 
being able to achieve that 

621
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,920
degree of sort of cohesion and 
coordination? 

622
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,760
Anything is possible as they 
say, but it's how long is a 

623
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,680
piece of string until you're 
able to achieve it and. 

624
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Yeah. 
So I suppose what I really mean 

625
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,000
is, is do you think people are 
sort of quite there yet? 

626
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,040
You talk about there being quite
different views across the 

627
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,040
spectrum of the agricultural 
community at the moment. 

628
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,680
Is there, is there a sense in 
your mind at least, that the 

629
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,920
situation has to get worse 
before it gets better? 

630
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,760
Do people have to be pushed even
further in order to realize that

631
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,120
the only way to get out of this 
is to? 

632
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Do you know a form of what 
you're describing? 

633
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,320
I think it's getting pretty 
marks to the crux now. 

634
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,920
People are going busts and 
struggling to survive. 

635
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,360
Very good businesses are getting
in very difficult situations. 

636
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,440
And when you get into that and 
the farmers are getting as antsy

637
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,880
as the public are and what we're
seeing, I said if it's people 

638
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,400
need change and need to see 
things going forward in a 

639
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,280
positive manner else you're 
going to see chaos instead. 

640
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,720
And I. 
Yeah. 

641
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,840
And that's that's certainly not 
going to be good for for 

642
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,560
anybody. 
Now you've talked about the 

643
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,640
support to the public, sorry 
from the public so far, which 

644
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,600
has expressed itself really in 
several different ways. 

645
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,760
People turning out at protest, 
people coming along to attend 

646
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,160
meetings that you, you, you're 
describing that you have been 

647
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,080
able to become involved in and, 
and that kind of thing. 

648
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,080
There hasn't yet been at least a
demonstrable swing in buying 

649
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,760
behaviour that that would enable
the sorts of changes that we're 

650
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,640
talking about. 
But what can the public do to 

651
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,280
assist with what it is that 
you're describing? 

652
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:16,000
Because clearly that they are 
the, the key to all of this in 

653
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,280
so far as they hold the, the 
purse strings. 

654
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,280
I mean, the government spend our
money in some respects via 

655
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,000
subsidy, but of course that is 
coming in the other side. 

656
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,280
I mean, you know, the, the 
public are going out to purchase

657
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,920
and consume the products that 
British farmers are making. 

658
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,680
What, what, what more can they 
do in this in this sort of 

659
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,960
communication chain? 
Well they've done a lot already.

660
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,600
You've only got to remember when
people are talking about 

661
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,160
Beauvier and they avoided buying
it. 

662
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,360
And as a direct result last week
Arlo's cancelled their tests. 

663
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,360
So as other groups cancel their 
tests so they are listening to 

664
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,200
if farmers say avoid this 
because of XYZ, avoid it. 

665
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,480
If you know there's local 
markets or farmers you can 

666
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,880
support, yes support them. 
Don't really listen to the 

667
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,200
supermarket advertising. 
You've got companies I wrote 

668
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,160
names stating they back British 
the best and then importing 

669
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:22,160
Australian beef including their 
adverts that they are the best 

670
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,200
at backing British farmers while
reduced for Christmas then 

671
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,480
reducing the price to pay them. 
So don't take the supermarkets 

672
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,920
and corporations at face value. 
Listen to what the farmers are 

673
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:39,160
advising you on is my the best 
piece of advice is if you had it

674
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,080
from the butcher and he's got an
avatar at the back, you're 

675
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,960
pretty much certain that that 
beef, our lamb or pork has come 

676
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,320
from a British farm because he 
ain't going to be able to afford

677
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,200
to import it from abroad. 
If you've had it from a 

678
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,360
supermarket counter, good luck 
proving where it's come from. 

679
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,000
We've saw that at Horse Gate 
Scandal and it's not a lot 

680
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,320
better now. 
It gets brought here packaged 

681
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,040
and the stamp stuck on it. 
And it's very difficult to know 

682
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,680
exactly where that has come from
or not. 

683
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,600
Now just to consider the the 
impending sort of forthcoming 

684
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,800
protests are coming up, which is
really what sort of why I wanted

685
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,120
to talk to you exactly. 
Now we'll, we'll come on to the 

686
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,520
specifics of that in a minute, 
but just a hypothetical. 

687
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,240
Daniel Zeichner, when this was 
announced, said that the 

688
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,120
estimated amount to be recouped 
from changing the threshold on 

689
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,800
agricultural property relief was
that it would raise about £500 

690
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,200
million a year. 
Now to contextualize that the 

691
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,240
National Health Service spends 
about that much every single 

692
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,840
day. 
So in the grand scheme of 

693
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,920
things, the amount that the 
government would raise from 

694
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:57,520
scrapping the relief on 
inheritance tax at the moment 

695
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:03,120
would be peanuts. 
But with that in mind, bearing 

696
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,840
in mind that this has become a 
sort of single issue campaign, 

697
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,440
if the government said right, 
OK, we've listened and we won't 

698
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,800
change it, what then? 
I think you'll continue to fight

699
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,320
on profitability. 
They've highlighted the 'cause 

700
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,760
that when farmers can't afford 
to pay for IHT on there, let 

701
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,640
alone cover all their costs, and
there's a severe problem in 

702
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:34,120
farming, and they accidentally 
galvanized the farming community

703
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,320
into a regeneration of They have
to be able to be profitable, 

704
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,920
else there'll be nobody to farm 
or sustain them. 

705
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,880
And if the government's going to
keep forcing us out of business,

706
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,920
it's time to maybe take over 
their jobs ourselves and do it, 

707
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,560
whether it stands for election 
or local councils and make 

708
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,080
change or be more active, more 
vocal, rather than doing what 

709
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,000
we've always done of tighten our
belts, get on and do a few more 

710
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:06,160
hours or keep pushing yourself 
harder to the grindstone because

711
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,960
we're pretty much the lowest 
paid industry per hour for the 

712
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,840
time we put in, for what we get 
back. 

713
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,720
Like there is no other industry 
like it and we have the highest,

714
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,880
well, suicide rate as a result 
because of the massive amount of

715
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,280
hours you are on your own, the 
sheer pressure you're under and 

716
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,560
the tax and strain put on you by
this government and earlier 

717
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,960
governments before them. 
And something has to change. 

718
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,160
It absolutely does, which which 
now brings us to what is going 

719
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,240
to be happening during the week 
commencing 24th of November 

720
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,280
described I think as a day of 
national unity. 

721
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,480
Would you just talk a bit more 
about what that is sort of set 

722
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,560
up to be and what you what your 
expectations are for that week? 

723
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,200
There's multiple groups from all
over the country. 

724
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,760
We've got it by county, so 
they'll be doing it 

725
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,320
independently by county. 
Still going out on the 24th, 

726
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,000
some on go slow, some on 
banners, some on meeting the 

727
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,880
public in public places, all 
just so in that 12 months on 

728
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,800
we've not gone anywhere and if 
anything we're stronger than 

729
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,480
ever. 
There's more people standing up 

730
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,920
to the plate and saying enough 
is enough, this cannot continue.

731
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,640
And then there's going to be 
another protest on the 26th in 

732
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,960
London and I hear they've got 
some quite colourful things 

733
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,280
being approved by the police for
them to do while they're there, 

734
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,000
which will definitely make him 
very interesting media which I 

735
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,000
don't think anyone has seen 
before, not in this country. 

736
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,320
OK. 
Are you, are you going to give 

737
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,200
any more detail on that or are 
you going to keep that under 

738
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,800
wraps? 
Well, let's just say if it's 

739
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,960
correct, what there's been put 
around social media for proof. 

740
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,560
Today you may see some planting 
in London. 

741
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:59,800
OK, right. 
All right, so, and let's say you

742
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,680
know, you're you're watching, 
listening to this, you're not in

743
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,640
London. 
Realistically, the chances of 

744
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,160
you getting there on the 26th 
are slim. 

745
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,240
How can people go about finding 
out specifically more about this

746
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,360
and and sort of expressing 
support and getting getting the 

747
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,560
sense that they are doing 
something meaningful? 

748
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:23,320
If they see it on social media, 
watch it, like it, share it on 

749
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,800
there. 
If you've got an MP and you do 

750
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,800
not like the way things are 
going, write to them and tell 

751
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,960
them he didn't like it. 
Tell them that this budget is 

752
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,920
not sustainable. 
The key fact here, which is 

753
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,400
recognized worldwide, is that 
for every pound invested by an 

754
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,280
agricultural business, it 
generates 7 LB in the wider 

755
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,120
economy. 
Because we're losing money and 

756
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,960
because we're people are 
thinking of devaluing their 

757
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,040
businesses. 
Now they're not improving that 

758
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,440
they're not by machinery, 
they're not investing. 

759
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,040
Therefore the economy is 
crashing. 

760
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,320
We've never seen so many 
agricultural businesses, so feed

761
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,760
suppliers, machinery 
manufacturers, builders, 

762
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,720
merchants going bust because we 
are not not improving and 

763
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:08,880
investing in the businesses. 
And what's happened as a result,

764
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,240
growth and GDP is crashing. 
It's not a case of just getting 

765
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,000
money back for I think it's 23 
1/2 hours. 

766
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,400
The NHS would run off that 
figure generated by. 

767
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,600
It's a case of when we're not 
making money, other businesses 

768
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,280
aren't and they're going bust. 
This then reduces their tax 

769
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,440
special. 
When farming is successful, all 

770
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,400
other industries are successful 
and economy grows producing more

771
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,320
tax. 
So stop biting the hand that 

772
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,720
feeds you and destroying your 
own tax income which is 

773
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,480
detrimental effect on the public
purse, council tax and all local

774
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,880
authorities and the public 
directly through the cost of 

775
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,480
food. 
Help farming survive and thrive 

776
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,480
and the entire country survive 
and thrive with you. 

777
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,040
You tell that to your MPs and 
tell them not to back this 

778
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,600
budget and then see what happens
because that's when you get real

779
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,160
change. 
And that's the best way you can 

780
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,440
support not just farmers, but 
yourselves and future 

781
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,880
generations to come by 
stabilizing our nation and 

782
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,520
making it prosper again. 
By working together. 

783
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,920
Well, let's hope that that 
message is received far and wide

784
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,640
and and that people in the first
instance are at least becoming 

785
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,320
better informed about this. 
Because I think, you know, over 

786
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,120
the course of this discussion so
far, you, you've explained so 

787
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,600
many things that I think the 
general public are woefully 

788
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,280
unaware of in the relationships 
between farmers and supermarkets

789
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,360
and government and local 
politicians and even amongst 

790
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,760
each other. 
Now just just to, I don't want 

791
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:46,960
to necessarily sort of bring the
mood down, but a lot of what 

792
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,320
we're considering in so far as 
land is concerned, and this is 

793
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,280
bearing in mind roughly 70% of 
the United Kingdom is in private

794
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,800
ownership or, or or in trust 
with bills in Parliament like 

795
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,800
the planning and infrastructure 
bill where there's a proposed 

796
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,360
compulsory purchase at 
aggregate. 

797
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,880
You know, we're effectively 
without developers premium for 

798
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,440
agricultural land. 
The Land Reform Bill is going 

799
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,760
through in Scotland which is 
absolutely specifically 

800
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,880
targeting anybody with a holding
of more than 1000 hectares and 

801
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,400
in effect it's setting the 
conditions for what many will 

802
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,440
say has already started but a 
land grab do Do you see that 

803
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,880
this is an overt statement of 
the intent to grab land and and 

804
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,880
if So, what for? 
I would say it's a land ground 

805
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,480
grab and I'd say the IHT is the 
stick to force it on forever 

806
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,800
because if there's not enough 
profit for you to continue 

807
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,360
farming you're forced to sell 
it. 

808
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,760
Only any people who can afford 
to buy it is a large 

809
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,480
corporations which are backing 
and pushing these bills through 

810
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:01,560
mostly for carbon capture, 
rewilding, tree planting and 

811
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:05,080
other solar farms for example. 
So again it's a case of follow 

812
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:10,120
the money. 
It's very difficult to stop it 

813
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,320
but all you can do is try. 
And I'm not quite sure on the 

814
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:19,120
best way to answer that 
situation, but I'd rather try 

815
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,640
and fail than stand by and do 
nothing. 

816
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,600
Yeah. 
Well, fair enough entirely. 

817
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,960
Now, one of the difficulties 
with any of these sorts of 

818
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,120
things that become contentious. 
And I think we can perhaps agree

819
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,080
that that a lot of what we're 
talking about has the potential 

820
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,160
to be contentious because of the
predication of government policy

821
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,120
on the idea that let's say there
is a climate emergency or 

822
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,560
there's a biodiversity emergency
because of climate change and 

823
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,520
all these sorts of things. 
That the, the issue as far as 

824
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,680
the public are concerned is that
a lot of people have been led to

825
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,840
believe that such a thing is the
case. 

826
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,800
And that therefore it follows 
that, well, OK, we shouldn't eat

827
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,080
meat, we shouldn't eat dairy. 
This, that and the other. 

828
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,760
So the important thing obviously
in in conversation is to not 

829
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,800
find yourself banging heads with
somebody, but indeed to find 

830
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,880
that sort of sensitive approach 
where you're not going to turn 

831
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,560
it into a conflict and indeed 
help somebody to see how the 

832
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,240
situation actually is. 
Now, do do you have any advice 

833
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,880
in that area as to sort of how 
to engage people in 

834
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,080
conversation, how to make it 
more meaningful, more relevant, 

835
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,600
and indeed to to sort of suggest
that people actually have been 

836
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,720
deceived? 
It's a difficult subject to 

837
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:42,080
normally try to highlight the 
difference between grass fed 

838
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:46,280
locally and arable fed and 
imported from abroad, especially

839
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,080
on food mothers. 
And also the fact that if 

840
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,000
they're really concerned about 
the environment they wouldn't be

841
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,560
building more runways for planes
or they'd be considering 

842
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,240
reducing that. 
It seems madness to be 

843
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:01,520
increasing in industry, which is
by far the largest Pluter. 

844
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,760
And they've also stated they've 
miscalculated airport emissions 

845
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,920
if I remember correctly by two 
Ferrers per flight because 

846
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,240
they've always made the 
assumption of plane flies in a 

847
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:15,040
straight line rather than the 
curve and it's actually triple 

848
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,200
the amount of fuel they use on 
transport. 

849
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,240
The fact they can buy carbon 
credits off corporations because

850
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,280
they're owned by the milk 
companies, not by the farmers, 

851
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,160
to make them carbon neutral and 
then claim that farmers are 

852
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,080
causing environmental doubt is 
completely absurd. 

853
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,760
Otherwise they wouldn't be 
buying the carbon credits. 

854
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,560
So that's the easiest, the most 
sensible way to highlight that 

855
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,440
if farming and food production 
in the UK wasn't green, they 

856
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,920
wouldn't be buying carbon 
credits from farm food 

857
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,320
production to sell to dirty 
industries such as airports and 

858
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,920
industry. 
OK, Yeah, got it. 

859
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,840
Now, Now on the on the sort of 
what people can do front, 

860
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,400
because the UK call them 
audience in particular is very 

861
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,080
passionate about sort of 
becoming engaged and and active 

862
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,880
and and what 1 can do. 
Now people have very different 

863
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,760
domestic situations, some living
rurally, some some urban in 

864
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,200
terms of engagement with 
farmers. 

865
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,000
Well, you could answer this 
perhaps personally or indeed 

866
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,880
within a regional or network 
context. 

867
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,000
Are you sort of open to people 
coming to you and saying, look, 

868
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,040
we would love to have a supply 
of, you know, whether it be beef

869
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:37,040
or vegetables or, or whatever it
is in order to, to set up those 

870
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,920
relationships that you describe.
You know the importance of 

871
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,520
engaging the public, How, how 
would people be best advised to 

872
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,120
go about that within this, you 
know, the areas that they live. 

873
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,160
Join a join a farmers group on 
Facebook or social media, 

874
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,840
there's lots of them about and 
literally pop in. 

875
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,160
Or even just put common on 
Facebook saying I'd like to buy 

876
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,080
X locally. 
Does anyone know anyone who 

877
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,920
sells direct? 
Is there a local market nearby? 

878
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,880
Normally boxed meat direct from 
farm is cheaper than you will 

879
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,760
get it from a farmers marketing 
place. 

880
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,680
It's far cheaper than the 
supermarket and a lot better 

881
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,520
quality on assign for vegetables
and things on it. 

882
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,440
Join an allotment group. 
There's lots of those about on 

883
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,960
there and help grab it yourself.
It does good for the environment

884
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,320
and it's good activity for the 
kids to learn about food and 

885
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,120
bond the family. 
But message farmers or go to an 

886
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,440
open farm Sunday and if you've 
done very good things with that,

887
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,400
I'm sure more of them will come 
and see a bit more of how things

888
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,640
are done for yourself. 
But yeah, message a farmers 

889
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,080
group. 
They're always happy to help and

890
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,960
talk about their produce and 
what they do and where you can 

891
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,440
get it. 
It's about rebuilding a 

892
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,520
community. 
In the old days it used to be he

893
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,800
knew everybody because he bought
everything with everyone. 

894
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,520
Now we're all a little 
segregated through using your 

895
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,320
phones but you don't talk to 
your neighbors. 

896
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,720
It's a bit more getting back to,
even if it is through social 

897
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:03,200
media, but speaking to the 
locals, you know where you can 

898
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,440
get it and getting a bit of good
old fashioned person to person 

899
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,280
conversation going and getting 
your products while you're 

900
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,600
there. 
Yeah, at least learning where 

901
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,200
you can. 
Yes, indeed. 

902
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,440
Yeah, absolutely. 
Face to face being being totally

903
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,280
critical to that. 
Now, obviously we started the 

904
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,000
conversation by describing the 
disbandment of FARMS to Action. 

905
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,440
Where does that put you in so 
far as the deliverable effect 

906
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,280
that that you can have? 
It might be a little bit too 

907
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,600
early to answer that, bearing in
mind this is very new news. 

908
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,280
But but do you see that you will
forge ahead and perhaps create 

909
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,680
another, another sort of network
or what's the plan in the in the

910
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,200
wake of what's happened? 
The the network is still intact.

911
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,200
All of the WhatsApp groups, all 
the farmers groups are still 

912
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,000
there. 
Ours and others is purely the 

913
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,200
fact that the limited company 
has been dissolved. 

914
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,920
We're not going to try and push 
it through as an entity there. 

915
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:01,880
They won't be using the same 
logo due to that as well, but 

916
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,360
the farmers can still chat 
independently by county and 

917
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,720
organise. 
I will still be going to 

918
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:10,040
supporting the independent 
action on the 24th. 

919
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,160
I'm going to try and go to 
London as well. 

920
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,280
I'll still be attending the 
conferences and I'll still be 

921
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,760
working with the other groups 
and protest groups which have 

922
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,240
always stayed as protest groups 
and not even attempted to form a

923
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:27,120
new union to and it and maybe 
somebody else would wish to take

924
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,000
up that mantle. 
But at this time, when tensions 

925
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,000
are high and individuals might 
do things which would cause 

926
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,720
problems, it is best not to be 
in that situation. 

927
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,000
Yeah, I know that entirely. 
Fair enough. 

928
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:41,840
And that's that's completely 
understood. 

929
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,560
Now, this isn't absolutely not a
criticism because let's face it,

930
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,320
social media is a complete 
nightmare for for almost 

931
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,480
everybody except for those who 
seem to enjoy it. 

932
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,920
But one of the difficulties is 
finding, finding information. 

933
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,360
Do do you have somewhere that 
you would advise people to go 

934
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,680
whether or not they're on social
media? 

935
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,560
Cause of course not everybody is
how does one find out what is 

936
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,680
going on? 
I mean, we are, we are clearly 

937
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:12,320
publicizing what's happening in 
the in the week 24th of November

938
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,960
onwards. 
But where would you point people

939
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,680
towards if they are feeling that
they're not within their 

940
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,200
immediate circles necessarily 
aware of of all of this? 

941
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,680
Well there there's several 
groups like dig on the dig on in

942
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,520
Wales, which is enough is 
enough. 

943
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,680
You've got all farmers, local 
county farmers group, farmers 

944
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,840
Unite, E Anglian farmers all by 
region. 

945
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:40,560
If you type in farm protests on 
any social media you will find 

946
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,040
multiple protest groups names. 
Come up with pictures of it and 

947
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,800
follow your local 1, the nearest
one to you and see what's 

948
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,080
posted. 
And when you see something of 

949
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,680
interest, read it, share it and 
pass it around your friends. 

950
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,200
That's probably the best way to 
do it. 

951
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,560
OK, Alan, that's terrific. 
And now just to, to wind up, do 

952
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,160
you yourself have a, have a sort
of an outlet, social media or, 

953
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,040
or a website or anything that 
you would direct people towards 

954
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,360
to find out a bit about sort of 
what you're going to do? 

955
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:16,320
Well, I'm on social media on 
TikTok as Alan the structure 

956
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,800
farmer. 
They're happy to follow me if 

957
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,800
it's something I think really 
needs to get out. 

958
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,440
I normally send it towards 
Gareth Wynne Jones, one of the 

959
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,600
larger influencers. 
So have a look at those guys as 

960
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:31,080
well. 
And yeah, I get normally posted 

961
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,560
by other groups too if there's 
something that I'm supporting 

962
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,640
action as much as possible, 
whether it's in person or 

963
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,480
speaking on days or attending 
it. 

964
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,520
So just keep your eyes out. 
Said I'm not going to stop 

965
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,840
fighting, I'll just keep pushing
as I have as an independent and 

966
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,520
support those which want to do 
action to improve our country 

967
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,400
and the situation in British 
agriculture. 

968
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,440
Excellent and links to all the 
things that Alan has just 

969
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,760
mentioned will be in the notes 
below this interview. 

970
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,240
But that has been a 
comprehensive insight into the 

971
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:08,760
situation at hand and indeed the
way out of it, at least in 

972
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,480
theory. 
So it's up to anyone listening 

973
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,320
to this to pass it on and indeed
act on the various suggestions 

974
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,680
there. 
One, one might say, but I I will

975
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,360
offer my sincere thanks to Alan 
Hughes for joining me today. 

976
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,760
Alan, it's been a pleasure to 
talk to you and a real insight. 

977
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,960
Thank you very much indeed, and 
indeed good luck to you. 

978
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,760
Thank you very much for having 
me, have a good day.