1 00:00:38,590 --> 00:00:44,360 The COVID era really showed us, you know, who's got hair in 2 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,120 their arms. I mean, if you think about it 3 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,480 right, we lost a lot of friends and we gained a lot of new 4 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:53,320 friends and we learnt a lot about the world around us. 5 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,040 And in many ways, I feel like we're in a better place. 6 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,400 I mean, would you go back to 2019 if you had a choice 20? 7 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,280 19 was very rough. That's why it worked. 8 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,600 The reason that the COVID operation worked is because 9 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,920 people were so stressed out and unhappy. 10 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,040 Really a treadmill feeling, people would really run ragged. 11 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,080 And the lure, the, the bait of the bait and switch was you get 12 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,320 to take a little break, you get to breathe for a second. 13 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:32,480 I didn't. I was on March 3rd, I was 14 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,720 working on COVID-19 news. I started, I started my daily 15 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,240 publication and chronology 10 days before the emergency was 16 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,840 declared, and then I was up to like 4:00 in the morning for the 17 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,640 next 600 nights. But I got a good journalism 18 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,480 assignment out of it. Were it not for the whole era, 19 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,520 the SIOP, the operation, I wouldn't have met you. 20 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,680 Yes, Yep. And I'm happy to have lost the 21 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,920 false friends. And, you know, a lot of my 22 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,360 clients bailed out, you know, for my other business bailed 23 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,120 out. And I thought I was a better 24 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,680 teacher than that. But, you know, they're accusing 25 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:18,120 me of of things and of being a Trump supporter and, you know, 26 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,800 lying about killing grandma. And I'm like, you know, you've 27 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,760 been, you say you've been reading me for 15 years and I've 28 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,120 always gotten it right. But maybe you should call me up 29 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,960 since my phone number is all off my website and I actually answer 30 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,320 the phone. You should call me up and ask me 31 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,640 what's going on that way. What's you can call me up and 32 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,200 say, you know, what's your problem, bro? 33 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,400 I'll tell you, I'll tell you. This is a weird thing you said 34 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:47,800 now Trump supporter. And I remember a time many, many 35 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:52,560 years ago where you could say openly, I like Obama or I like 36 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,920 Clinton or I like whoever, doesn't really matter. 37 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,760 And you wouldn't lose friends over it. 38 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,200 You might get into a bit of an argument, but you wouldn't lose 39 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,560 friends. Yeah, that end, though I tend to 40 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,000 lean left in my politics, I have been the kind of person who 41 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,880 leaned left who always listened to what people from other 42 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,720 viewpoints had to say and that they respect that immensely. 43 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,680 If you are, if you're, if you're a liberal, who actually cares 44 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,240 what they say, you're not a Lib tard. 45 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,280 And anytime I've had a long and storied journalism career going 46 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:38,760 back to to 1983, and anytime I have been arrested for 47 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,280 journalism, banished from a place in any way, censored or 48 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,520 banned, it's always been liberals who have done it. 49 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Never once has somebody who allegedly had some opposite 50 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,440 viewpoint of mine, which then you find out isn't so opposite 51 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,360 when you actually parse it out. It's always been people on the 52 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,560 left who who just blatantly practice lockstep censorship or 53 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,640 pillorying or wokeism or or whatever. 54 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,040 And that that's been instructive. 55 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,560 I think it's not indicative of a sound character. 56 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,640 Now let me just categorically state I have kind of given up on 57 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,600 the labels thing. Left, right, liberal, 58 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,839 conservative, big. That's because I don't. 59 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,240 I don't really know what they mean. 60 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,920 For the sake of a discussion, I'm only saying it for the black 61 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,840 pieces and white pieces in chess, you have to have. 62 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,360 I mean, I'd love a chess board with like purple and green Is 63 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,120 that is that that must have got that exist. 64 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,160 But yes, it's become completely meaningless. 65 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,560 I think though, in the United States there is this weird thing 66 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,480 that thinks of itself as liberal movement, which flies the trans 67 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:49,760 flag, which will try to correct your speech, which will accuse 68 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,720 me of photographing models that are conventionally attractive. 69 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,520 I once had one of these my studio. 70 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,520 What's that, Sweeney? Have you seen that that that 71 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,040 whole new thing now with those jeans, the what's their name? 72 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,160 Sue Sweeney? Something little. 73 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,040 Cute. That's what they're mad about. 74 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,480 She's hotter than they are. That's all it is. 75 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,200 But she's got what? A little cutie? 76 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,320 Jesus Christ. I downloaded the my favorite of 77 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,160 those images, and I've got it at full resolution. 78 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,880 Then I wrote to the Then I wrote to the ad agency with my 79 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,400 Pacifica Network branding on my e-mail saying, well, they're all 80 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,800 pissed off, but I'm not, so I'm having fun with that. 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,600 It's, it's so absurd. Like there's, they're actually 82 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,320 claiming this is a neo Nazi. They, if they, if they think 83 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,200 that's neo Nazi, let me take you to Auschwitz. 84 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,320 Let me let's take a walk through the mass graves of Bookenwald. 85 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,000 I've been there. It had nothing to do with a cute 86 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,200 girl with bare feet and bell bottoms. 87 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,200 I'll take the girl on the bare feet and bell bottoms any day 88 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,400 over Bookenwald. Well, the point I was trying to 89 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,400 make is that the whole left right thing, yes, it does have a 90 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,560 place. I think in in general 91 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,680 conversation, we kind of know what we mean when we say liberal 92 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,440 or conservative. We do, we do kind of have an 93 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,840 idea. I've had the best conversations 94 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,800 over the years with self identified communists for 95 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,440 example. Or or yeah, when you get into 96 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,520 the point of the conversation where it's like, well, what are 97 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:26,160 your actual values? I I wrote in my last column that 98 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,320 sign of the times cops or more or interesting more interesting 99 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,720 than hippies. This is just based on 100 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,000 conversations, but I also think that prostitutes are the most 101 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,040 interesting women to talk to. I've had something very probably 102 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:44,320 then then you get guys like Buckminster Fuller agreed with 103 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,240 this. He's like he the women he loves 104 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,880 the most, the smartest women, some of the most intelligent, by 105 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,560 which I mean general intelligence. 106 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,840 They could keep up with anything that I would say have been 107 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,320 prostitutes. So the the labels are are 108 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,520 ridiculous and but you know, you need them to a point. 109 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,120 But then like I've, I've watched my positions on issues changed, 110 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,080 like abortion, for example, like feminism. 111 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,680 Feminists convinced me that feminism was a lie. 112 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,160 They they buy their behavior. And then I started to look into 113 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:23,600 the concepts behind Open Access to abortion, and I started to 114 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,040 disagree with those foundational principles. 115 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,640 Now there's a complicated issue, right? 116 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,720 Because we have bodily autonomy. And I think that's, that's the 117 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,440 beauty though of, of, of reality as opposed to constant academia 118 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,800 and theorizing. Yeah. 119 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,920 When you just look at actually what's going on around you and 120 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,640 when you experience it, it does alter the way in which you 121 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,080 perceive things. This is why I said to you 122 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,600 earlier, I've had some of the best conversations with self 123 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,000 identified communists. Because they tend to be 124 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,520 intellectually advanced. They've if they've read Marx, I 125 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,040 want to know what the hell they read. 126 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,160 I I haven't read Marx, but I'm very interested in what people 127 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,640 who have read Marx have to say about Marx. 128 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,160 It doesn't make me a Marxist, but there's a lot of very 129 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,400 interesting critique of the problems we are experiencing 130 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,120 now, AI being one of them. This is colonialism. 131 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,200 This is we are in another stage of colonialism right now. 132 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,520 Yeah, You just created my segue because I wanted to ask you 133 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,560 about AI. So let me just quickly premise 134 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,920 it with the following. So I know we've chatted about 135 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,200 this off air briefly. My my position is nuanced on AI. 136 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,640 So I have the view that technically, all right, it can't 137 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,120 control us. It can't take over because it's 138 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,480 purely a set of algorithms designed with a purpose. 139 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,080 It doesn't have a will or a desire. 140 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:54,400 So it can't, it can't become human in the sense that it's 141 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,520 going to think about things. However, that's where it ends 142 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,840 because in the same way it like like smartphones have taken over 143 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,920 our daily lives. I think in the same way we will 144 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,240 allow ourselves to be taken over in an A sort of abstract way by 145 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:11,880 AI. And I think you kind of agree 146 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,040 with that. Yeah, though my position is 147 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,840 historically based and goes back to Telegraph and the light bulb. 148 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,560 So I saw your show the other week. 149 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,280 That's why I wrote to you with those two guys. 150 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,680 And look, they're solid and it's the I forget their names. 151 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:30,480 And it was the best technical explanation I have seen. 152 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:36,640 Although I am, I'm now reading this, which is stunning. 153 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,000 It's it's really, she's made. You could probably get her on 154 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:47,880 the show and had I not see my my dad was a professor of 155 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,280 communications. And so I was aware of the work 156 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,080 of Marshall Mcluhan when I was a kid. 157 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,880 And, and when when we watched dinner TV at dinner, there was a 158 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,120 microphone taped to the television. 159 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,120 So we didn't just consume television. 160 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,440 When you're growing up and your dad has a microphone taped to 161 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,240 the side of the television, you know, you're supposed to observe 162 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:10,760 it. It's not just a thing that's 163 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,480 just going to float through you like a The Flintstones. 164 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,200 So he recorded the news and those tapes are gone. 165 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,640 He's kept everything he's ever owned and he doesn't have those 166 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,920 tapes, which would be incredible to have little old little reel 167 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,480 to reel, like 4 inch reel to reels. 168 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,760 So, and not video because there was no videotaping. 169 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,640 And so I was aware of media theory very young and, and I 170 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,200 applied it as best I could. And then I met Andrew Mcluhan, 171 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,680 Marshall's grandson. And through Marshall I met his 172 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:43,240 father, Andrew's father, Eric. And so I have gotten to have 173 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,680 many conversations with actual people in the Mcluhan family. 174 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:49,920 And Eric was Marshall's collaborator and assistant for 175 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,480 more than 10 years. So I started to read in D in 176 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,840 depth on Mcluhan's theories and he provides a map to the 177 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,040 territory that we're in. But he could not, I know where 178 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,360 he stood on computers. He couldn't foresee what we are 179 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,360 having going on right now. He did not foresee them 180 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,360 hallucinating for example. But what he did. 181 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,560 But what he did say was that computers are LSD for the 182 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:21,720 business community. We can't find this quote, but I 183 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,680 have read this. I'm not sure what book I read it 184 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:26,000 in. Computers are LSD for the 185 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:30,200 business community. He said this in the 60s and he 186 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,040 believed they induce an out of body hallucinatory state. 187 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,960 For those who've never done LSD. It's like you're living in a 188 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:36,960 dream. Basically. 189 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,680 You you. If you have, if you have good 190 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,440 stuff by a good chemist, you're living in a subtle dream world 191 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,040 but you're waking. You can get up and go to the 192 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,800 kitchen. You can get a cup of coffee, put 193 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,720 it back on the table if you're so inclined. 194 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,600 And that's what he said computers are doing to us. 195 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,680 And he and all electrical technology has been regarded 196 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,120 pretty much by any observing philosopher as something that 197 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,200 basically shoves us out of body onto the astral plane. 198 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,280 And this starts with Telegraph and it's and it continues with 199 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,840 telephone and the electric light. 200 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,640 I don't think we've recovered from electric light as a 201 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,960 technology advance. The world was dark at night and 202 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,680 light during the day and now, except like where I am, it is 203 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,560 light all night. It's it's light on. 204 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,160 Yeah, that's interesting. And this, our hormones, our 205 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,640 social behaviors, yes, every, it changed everything. 206 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,080 And you couldn't stay up. Well, they had whale lamps how I 207 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,240 couldn't and candles and candles as dangerous and I could. 208 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,200 I couldn't do that. People get old their their eyes 209 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,520 aren't as good as when they're young. 210 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,760 So how are you reading by oil lamps all all night long? 211 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,040 So you most people were not so they would go to bed. 212 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,160 And the shocks. I mean, for example, the advent 213 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,960 of feminism takes place with the Seneca Falls Convention two 214 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,600 years after the Telegraph. The first Telegraph signal was 215 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:17,480 sent when you read the Seneca Falls Convention statement 216 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,360 called the Declaration of Sentiments. 217 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:25,720 Every single statement is a lie. Historically, women can't go to 218 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:26,840 college. That's a lie. 219 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,680 Many colleges had opened for women. 220 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,360 The leader of the conference was educated. 221 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,240 Total lie. Women don't have money. 222 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,960 No, the money to women were sitting right in the room. 223 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,760 You can keep going. Women resigned from the human 224 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,800 race 2 years after the Telegraph sends its first signal. 225 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,120 What hath God wrought? They blamed God for the 226 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,320 Telegraph. The first message Tele Telegraph 227 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,400 was What hath God wrought? The women resigned from the 228 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,280 human race. The most astounding thing about 229 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,880 the declaration of sentiments which I, which I mark as being 230 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,920 contemporaneous with the Telegraph, is it has never once 231 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,920 mentioned children. They make this big statement 232 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,000 about women, their rights, their the way that men have enslaved 233 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,240 them for all of eternity and they never once mentioned 234 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,720 children. Think about this. 235 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,800 So the feminist movement begins with women resigning for 236 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,480 motherhood. Well, who's going to raise the 237 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,360 kids? Let's have a real conversation. 238 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,360 I'm hoping to have. I'm hoping to that conversation. 239 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,880 Look, if I had a baby, as I'm sure you do, I would be. 240 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,600 I'm sure you're up at night as much as your wife is that you'll 241 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,880 take care if she's got to sleep, you'll take care of the kid all 242 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:41,880 night. You got to talk to me. 243 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,720 You'll, you'll come a little bit wrinkled. 244 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,600 Fine. You know, you know how to do 245 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,640 this when you haven't slept. I'm sure that might not have 246 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,360 been the case. Well, but we forget that in, you 247 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,760 know, 1912, everybody was up until all hours the, the men 248 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,200 were out milking the cows at 11:00 at night. 249 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,400 It might have been 5° outside and they've got to milk the 250 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,360 cows. Mama's putting the kids to bed 251 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,960 and then suddenly we're those are rural areas that are not 252 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,800 impacted. And as electricity progressed, 253 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,520 things got more and more insane, which is now where we are. 254 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Right, right, right. So if I'm following you, Eric, 255 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,040 what you're saying is that these big moments in history, these 256 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:32,200 big events have had significant existential impact on on society 257 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400 and electricity, for example, being one of them that we 258 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,560 haven't quite recovered from and AI being the next. 259 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,800 No, There have been a series you could look at. 260 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,440 What happened with radio was a major turning point. 261 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,400 Radio precipitates the world wars one and two. 262 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,200 It it, it, it what? One of the things Mcluhan said 263 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:59,200 is that people don't like this. But Gandhi, Hitler and FDR all, 264 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,360 all rose to power thanks to radio. 265 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,880 So radio creates A tribalism. It unravels literacy overnight. 266 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,600 It creates tribalized, electrically tribalized people. 267 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,680 And, and then you'd follow that through and, and then by the by 268 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,920 the 60s, we're under the full thrall of television. 269 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,360 And then people are treating their lives like television 270 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,280 programs even though they didn't have television programs. 271 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,480 You and I have little television programs, right? 272 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,760 That was not true in the 60s. It wasn't even community access 273 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,720 cable in in the 60s, but people start acting like their lives 274 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,480 are television shows in the in the 1960s, under the influence 275 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,080 of television, all the behaviors change. 276 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,160 Yes. In other words, these big events 277 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,920 led to like a rewiring of the mind. 278 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,920 Of, well, all social relations, the internal relationship the of 279 00:16:55,040 --> 00:17:01,760 the, the, the years and the centuries of in, in inner focus 280 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,000 LED created by literacy were unraveled almost immediately in 281 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,440 the early 20th century by radio. And then they're working on 282 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,440 television in the 30s. They're working then the 283 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,800 computer science is born in the 40s during World War 2 and it 284 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,240 was a bit of a very different thing. 285 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,920 It was not digital, it was analogue. 286 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,760 And then in the late 40s, it's starting to go more digital, but 287 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,760 very expensive. And this is changing people, but 288 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,840 it's changing every social relationship. 289 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,720 I mean, the, the, the, the phone, no one thought, no one 290 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,840 saw this and thought this is going to change every last 291 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,720 social relationship that we're in. 292 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,480 But it has changed every last social relationship. 293 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,840 Now we carry a tracking device around. 294 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,280 So now our position is being announced 24 by 7, it can be 295 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,520 looked up. So one of the things electricity 296 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,840 was a completely destroyed privacy, the reality of privacy 297 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,240 and the concept of privacy. But for example, a digital 298 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,320 effect that we lived through was 2020. 299 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,720 This is very important to understand that 2020 was not 300 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,040 possible without digital conditions. 301 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,480 I'm, I'm used to speaking in YouTube language. 302 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,640 I call it the 2020 crisis because the their algorithm is 303 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,720 not on, they're not on to the 2020 crisis. 304 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,840 They keep giving me strikes if I say virus or COVID. 305 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:37,760 So those digitalized, digitized people, digitized people fell 306 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,640 for COVID. They fell for the software 307 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,760 upgrade that would not have worked in the analog world. 308 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,680 They tried meaning that there was an attempt at at a there 309 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,920 were several pandemic scares, including one in 68 and 69. 310 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,520 And all the kids came to Woodstock. 311 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,680 They couldn't frighten them with newspaper articles. 312 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,920 And and then I interviewed the principles of Woodstock and 313 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,720 really nobody cared. The the Germaphobe principal 314 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,360 photographer Elliot Landy didn't even know or care about it. 315 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,640 Michael Lang, the founder, didn't even care about it. 316 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,040 I actually reached them directly in 2020 to do the story. 317 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:29,160 And so the mere fact of COVID was not just created by the PCR. 318 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,920 It was not just created by algorithms. 319 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,480 It was greatly facilitated by by robots invading social media. 320 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,760 People are not realizing that all the censorship was AI. 321 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,240 All the strikes were AI, right? When you're taking off Facebook 322 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,320 and 30 seconds, that's AI working. 323 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:57,280 But the people were so porous, porous from all this 324 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:02,960 overexposure to digital, that all you had to do was launch 325 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,960 this and and suddenly they're terrified. 326 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,840 Yeah, I, I think I agree with you actually quite a lot because 327 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,120 on the one hand you go, OK, cool, AI is a very helpful tool. 328 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:20,760 And on the other hand, it, it blurs reality. 329 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,120 You know, my video gets taken down. 330 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,160 Was it somebody at YouTube or was it, you know, a bot and. 331 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,240 The very high level people like might have somebody YouTube 332 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,560 watching the people with millions of followers. 333 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,320 There might be some human intervention and ranking and 334 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,680 demonetized, but for 99.9% of YouTube's, it's all algorithm. 335 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,840 Facebook, it's algorithm that are policing. 336 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,120 It's looking for keywords. It's it's, yeah. 337 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,520 But I mean, that's part of the danger then of of AI is that you 338 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,360 don't know what is real anymore. Including you. 339 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,000 But what they're not talking about is how fast we are 340 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,960 becoming like it. I don't hear anyone talking 341 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,520 about this, that the all technology environments 342 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,280 condition humans essentially to be like them. 343 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,320 So you're following me here. There's things are moving in two 344 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,840 directions, but I'm not seeing any discussion of the other 345 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,680 direction of movement. And the direction of movement is 346 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,760 people starting to think algorithmically Now they're 347 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,240 they're I'm seeing stories about people using AI words like it's 348 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,680 kind of jargony and people are picking up on that jargon, which 349 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,760 is 1 little clue, but it's much, much worse than that. 350 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,080 So. Where do you see it going? 351 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,000 Well, it it is said that there is a layer of ash that covers 352 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,920 the world. If you dig down anywhere, you'll 353 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,040 find a layer of ash. We're going to have a creative 354 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,680 layer of ash. What what is doing is it is 355 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,040 shutting people down. Look there, there's an article 356 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,960 that was pulled off the Internet from a Lily bit the the blog, a 357 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,080 Lily bit Substack blog. I saved it. 358 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,560 I saved it. I saved the PDF of this. 359 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,720 Thank God she pulled it down. She did an analysis of how many 360 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:22,000 teenagers are using companion chat bots as they're like 361 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,600 girlfriend. Something around half of people 362 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,160 like in the 18 to 24 range. Yeah, they're not out. 363 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,960 That's for danger. They're not out. 364 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,080 You know, I was always the editor in chief, so I never had 365 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,800 to really go anywhere to find girlfriends. 366 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,120 I would just do my thing, publish the newspaper, sit in my 367 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:39,560 office, and then all these artists and writers and 368 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,440 production assistants would, would show up. 369 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,320 Well, the fun of being an editor in chief all these years has 370 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,240 always been the social environment around it. 371 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,480 Besides my my love of publishing gone. 372 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,040 That's gone that whole, the whole concept that you would 373 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,160 hang out with people, really hang out with people in in 374 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,200 groups and get close to them. And now you've got people who 375 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,640 have already been alienated by these technologies, young people 376 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,600 who grow up on them. And then suddenly they're 377 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,280 feeding them a $12.00 a month chat bot that they think they 378 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,600 love or that's going to respond to them because they're 379 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,600 terrified of the girls. The boys are terrified of the 380 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,040 girls after the Me Too movement, which is one of my main 381 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,360 objections, which they objected to because I said, look, you 382 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,080 can't tell me. My clients are calling me and 383 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:31,760 they're worried about their their 16 year old sons who are 384 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,720 afraid to ask a girl to the prom lest they be thought of as a 385 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,080 sexual predator. When we confuse asking a girl to 386 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,240 the prom with sexual predation, we're done. 387 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,120 There's no predation and asking a girl out to the prom. 388 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:49,760 It's the school puts the prom on. 389 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,360 How are you gonna You gotta have a prom. 390 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,280 The boys are expected to ask the girls out and they're terrified. 391 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,440 This has expanded into society. The so not the boys have to have 392 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:07,640 a little chutzpah to engage with these kind of mystical beings 393 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,200 known as women. I mean, even if they're. 394 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,560 Checking out they're. Terrified. 395 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,160 Yeah, they're checking out they're. 396 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,320 Well, they're checking out, yes. And they have they, I think 397 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:24,400 unless they're very fortunate, lack the conversational skills 398 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,400 to to engage them and and the girls are making it hard. 399 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,680 The girls are being conditioned also by this, by this 400 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,760 environment and they're they are being as they were made. 401 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,120 They were dehumanized in the, in the Telegraph era, not 402 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:41,640 mentioning children. Like has this ever been written 403 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,000 about in any feminist term paper ever? 404 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,080 Like I'm really, I'd love to do a search of the literature and 405 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,560 see if anyone's ever done a doctoral thesis on this. 406 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,320 To not mention children in the declaration of sentiments is 407 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,720 colossal. And then this, this conditioning 408 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,840 has proceeded through every stage of, of, of technology 409 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,480 conditioning the behavior and the and the thinking of 410 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,800 everyone. But it's affecting men and women 411 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,520 slightly differently. But hang on, hang on, hang on, 412 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,760 hang on, hang on. So the it's not a counter 413 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,320 argument that you're creating, you're sort of creating an 414 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,680 addendum. An environmental I'm taking an 415 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,280 environmental position. I'm taking a ground field. 416 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,000 I'm looking at the ground field, not the figure of oh this cool 417 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,480 chat bot or how does this technology work goes JGPT 123 or 418 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,680 4 Sam Holtman, Bill Gates, you know. 419 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:42,240 But Eric, then are you not suggesting, therefore, that this 420 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,400 is just a a, a consequence of progress? 421 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,240 Well, it is. It is and. 422 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,040 Therefore, therefore, is there moral judgement that that is 423 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,160 required to be attached to it? Like is it a good or bad thing 424 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,320 or is it just a thing? Well, OK, so again, referencing 425 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,680 Mcluhan, who was always very careful to try to avoid moral 426 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,320 judgement, but he also didn't see what we're seeing when it 427 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,560 when you start to have half of young people absorbed in their 428 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,440 phones, not even chatting with each other. 429 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,800 But but chatting with a machine, a an algorithm thinking that 430 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,000 it's a person and then it's making them like an algorithm. 431 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,520 And when the, when you see the birth rate going down and when 432 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,360 and when, when, when everyone's terrified of everyone else, that 433 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:36,920 you, you, it's no longer a moral judgement. 434 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,920 It's it's a judgement of like there is poison and the animals 435 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,400 are all dying. You can't say, well, it's just 436 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,520 poison. You know, it's just a molecule, 437 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,840 a hookah, little dioxin. You know, it's like molecule 438 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,720 like any other. It actually is not. 439 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,120 So your addendum then to the to the to the discussion is that 440 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:02,360 while AI itself isn't going to take over, people are actually 441 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:05,680 making a takeover. Them people are people are 442 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,960 taking it's taking over people's minds and they're allowing it. 443 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:18,400 Well, yeah, they're but it's so it's so tempting to like. 444 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,680 Do you play musical instrument? I do. 445 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:21,720 What do you? Love it. 446 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,720 I've I've got a couple guitars. OK, so we've been, we've been 447 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,520 down this road, right? You know it, the cowboy C chord, 448 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,960 for some reason my hands could not make that chord. 449 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,440 I could make a lot of chords. So I had to really want to learn 450 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,080 how to do how to do that. You have to sit there and you 451 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,280 have to, you have to put in time and hours. 452 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,640 I was, I, I could afford to take 4 guitar lessons a week for a 453 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,760 while. I started at age 47 and my 454 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,680 teacher, of course, was happy to come over every night and teach 455 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,040 me and I'm like, give you food and money, let's work. 456 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,160 And now you just basically you can make up whole songs pushing 457 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,960 buttons. This the people are lazy and 458 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,880 there's a lot of things like that. 459 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,240 I mean, I to, to write. I when we're done, I'm going to 460 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520 go, I've major writing project doing about a week and a half. 461 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,560 I'm, I'm, I've got, I've got like 18,000 words left to write. 462 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,880 I mean, I'm going to sweat to do that and do it well. 463 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,520 Well, I'm willing to do that. I've I've put in my time. 464 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,160 I have, I have a unique talent as a writer, but that's because 465 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,160 I write a quarter million words a year. 466 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,240 That's my at least. At least that much. 467 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,160 Well, on AI you can create a whole song in space of 60 468 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,240 seconds, yeah. Yes, and I forget which, which 469 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,280 presenter did a takedown of it. He's one of these music 470 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,680 producers who does a podcast and he had it, he did the song on 471 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,840 the air and he like he composed it on the air and he could, but 472 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,640 it's total cliche. And and you realize how much of 473 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,840 other culture is total cliche. But the problem is that that has 474 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,720 worsened under digital conditions. 475 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,840 So AI is an extension of digital conditions given a name. 476 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,280 We've all been interacting with AI using Google, for example, 477 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,760 all the way back to the beginning that there there's a 478 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,040 theory that all digital technology is AI, which I agree 479 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,560 with. I think that when you when you 480 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,400 use a pocket calculator, not that they exist anymore, that's 481 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,320 a form of AI doing division. Who can do division? 482 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,240 Who can who can divide like uneven numbers and or square 483 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,560 roots? Can you do factorials? 484 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,680 I don't know, maybe, but but that's a form of AI. 485 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,600 To take a a human mental function that you'd have to 486 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,680 train to do to be able to do this kind of long division and 487 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,280 have it done in one second, that's a form of AI. 488 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,440 You mentioned playing guitar earlier. 489 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,320 You were talking about AC chord. I just play a power chord 490 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200 because I'm lazy. Sure. 491 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,480 Well, but that's OK, But see, but that's solution and you know 492 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,640 that that gets a certain sound. Whole bands have made their 493 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,840 sound up on power cords, like the whole 90s. 494 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,080 Basically, it's power. Cords every. 495 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,240 Every punk song ever, Yeah. And they're great, but that's 496 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,440 the reason that they're great. So here's an example. 497 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,600 There's this thing called the Boiler Room series. 498 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,120 And these two, who are these two Asian kids, Yoko Kokomichi or 499 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,920 something, these two Japanese kids. 500 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,560 It's I'm tuning in to this and I I work with a tech who's half my 501 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,400 age, and we don't really have many cultural meeting places. 502 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,800 But I saw this thing one night and I said it to him. 503 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,280 I'm like, you got to fucking see this. 504 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,560 And he writes back and says, oh, that's like my favorite thing 505 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,640 ever. And I said, wait, you're telling 506 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,800 me that this thing that I think is like the greatest thing, 507 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,840 greatest thing since Brian Eno is your favorite DJ set. 508 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,280 He's like, yeah, totally nonplussed. 509 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,640 I'm excited by this. And then the conversation 510 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,840 proceeds the next day and he, he reveals this concept that you 511 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,160 could just get an algorithm to do that. 512 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,360 Are you familiar with the boiler room sets? 513 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,000 It's a, I'll send a link so we can link to it in the notes. 514 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,920 They're, they're a, they're, they're raves basically. 515 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,280 And they're in like weird places And they set up they, they must 516 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,280 get permission. They set up all the gear. 517 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,080 And these two, these two young guys have a lot of excitement 518 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,520 around them and the people, they are absolutely enraptured by 519 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,480 what they're doing. But there is also the beauty of 520 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,040 the moment, the human moment that could never be created by 521 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,800 an algorithm. Nobody would care. 522 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,680 And these two guys are like marathon DJs working in total 523 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,040 coordination, two different minds in total. 524 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,600 And it's not DJ like mixing one song into another. 525 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,000 It's this whole original. Thing. 526 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,840 It's spontaneous creation of electronic music with rehearsed 527 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,840 parts and pre written parts, and then they mix it into this thing 528 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,440 that's never ever happened before, that cannot get that 529 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,520 kind of love and passion in the room with an algorithm doing 530 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,880 that. So the human factor is very 531 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,920 important, but it ceases to be important when we no longer want 532 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,320 it. But Eric, you're just a Luddite, 533 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,400 ha. Ha ha ha, I'm not a Luddite. 534 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,000 Ha ha ha. You should see where I'm 535 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,880 sitting. I'm a loveite. 536 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,800 I love this technology. I think it's amazing. 537 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,920 I think it's amazing. I love it. 538 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,000 But I am here 90% of the time. I'm creating something in this 539 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,240 technology and that's the only antidote. 540 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,720 Yes. Hang on, hang on, hang on. 541 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,800 Yeah, That's that's that's the keyword. 542 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,400 You said I'm creating something. I think that pretty much is the 543 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,320 undertone or the undercurrent of this entire conversation. 544 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,680 It's about creativity and creation, which is what AI 545 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,720 ultimately is destroying. Yep, Yep, totally destroying it. 546 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,000 That's layer of ash that will cover the the earth. 547 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680 I accept that these technologies all transform us. 548 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,440 They work us over completely. But this is different. 549 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,680 This is different. This article, and I'm sure you 550 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,680 can post a link to the PDF. I'll put it up. 551 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,360 I'll host it on my website. So I'll I'll take the heat if we 552 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,680 get in trouble. Is it different though? 553 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,080 Because I remember in the 90s, sorry for interrupting, but I 554 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,160 remember in the 90s when people said this Internet thing. 555 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,200 This isn't. This is not good. 556 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,040 It's caused a lot of problems. We didn't need it. 557 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,320 We didn't need it. And the phone look, I ran AI had 558 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,440 a fabulous photo project called The Book of Blue and I started 559 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,920 in Paris and then I went to Belgium and then I came to New 560 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,520 York with it and I watched the models start to slowly go insane 561 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,000 as the iPhone took over their minds. 562 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,680 Their whole concept of their mind body relationship made it 563 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,280 plainly dangerous. And So what it's doing is it's 564 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,840 it is distorting our relationship to our bodies. 565 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,080 Have I read this quote on your on on your show the last time we 566 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,639 did. Let me let me read this quote. 567 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,280 The body everywhere is assaulted by all of our new media, a state 568 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,880 which has resulted in deep disorientation of intellect and 569 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,719 destabilization of culture throughout the world. 570 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,679 In the age of disembodied communication, the meaning, 571 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,040 significance and experience of the body is utterly transformed 572 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,760 and distorted. That's what's happening. 573 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,600 Yeah. Profound. 574 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,880 Profound. But Eric? 575 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,280 I'm I don't know how to put this into words. 576 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:54,360 Let me, let me try and hope that you can follow what what he is 577 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,360 saying and what you and I are effectively doing here is we are 578 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,720 offering a sort of a perma critique. 579 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,800 I guess this is this perpetual criticism of progress. 580 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,840 No, because the people who perpetuate it never care about 581 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,960 the negative consequences. And now I think they're 582 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,600 exploiting the negative consequences. 583 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,960 When you have Musk talking about going to Mars, right? 584 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,920 You know where it's, you know where his mind is at. 585 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,040 What is motivating these people is immortality. 586 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,400 Yes, transhumanism, transhumanism. 587 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,880 They, they, they think that when they're, they're, they'll get a 588 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,320 new body, They'll have their, it's going to be like The 589 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,800 Simpsons. You know, Richard Nixon has head 590 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,720 in the jar. That's prescient. 591 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,680 And it's not predictive programming. 592 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,840 They're just smart people. So the progress is driven by 593 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,960 profit. It's not driven by helping 594 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,480 people. And they make the case early in 595 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,880 AI. Oh, this is all going to be 596 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,360 about the mission. The mission. 597 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,800 We're going to save you. Save. 598 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,200 Well, wait a second. We've just lived through like 30 599 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,520 years of fracking, pumping hydraulic fluid into freshwater 600 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,200 wells. Remember, freshwater is 1% of 601 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,120 the water on the planet. Most of it's held in the ice 602 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,240 caps, which are melting whether you like it or not, whether you 603 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,640 think it's climate change or not, the glaciers are melting, 604 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,400 they're retreating. The water's running into the 605 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,400 ocean. And so we've only, we've got a 606 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,120 very small percentage of water. Well, AI consumes huge amounts 607 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,880 of water. Forget about, sorry, what it's 608 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,440 doing to people's minds and hearts. 609 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,440 It's it is burning water. And then where are we going to 610 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,720 get the electricity? Well, you've got both Gates and 611 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,480 and Zuckerberg contracting nuclear power. 612 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,960 So five years ago it was green, green, green, green, green. 613 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,480 And now it's like we must have electricity. 614 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,400 They didn't have enough electricity. 615 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,840 They didn't know how they were going to solve it for the 616 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,880 electric car. And now they're talking about, I 617 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,600 forget which one of these moguls, it may have been Musk or 618 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,280 one of these big guys said 20% of the world's power is going to 619 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,840 go to AI. But why? 620 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,280 Why do we need this? We don't need it. 621 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,520 They they need it. Then let's talk about the 622 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,200 tracking, the tracing, the surveilling. 623 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,240 I'm editing a thing called ICE 9 News now. 624 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:18,600 I'll give you a link to it. It's a daily AI news 625 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,360 compilation. Just so someone's preserving 626 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,960 these articles. We're preserving like 30-40 627 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,240 articles a day on this thing. We're up to probably 6 or 700 628 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,120 articles. Well, now they've got a thing 629 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,240 where you can walk into a room with Wi-Fi and automatic Wi-Fi 630 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:41,480 can automatically on the system tell who you are without any 631 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:48,080 biometrics based on things like bone density and your heartbeat. 632 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,880 So this is about a total surveillance state. 633 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,880 But also to be fair, a lot of AI like the LLMS for example are 634 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,640 utter rubbish. I mean, they on the one hand are 635 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,480 very good at, let's say you want to ask something to do with 636 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,360 coding, but anything beyond that they're completely useless, I 637 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,440 mean. Even that they're useless for 638 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,240 they couldn't they don't they can't really. 639 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:22,680 We don't respect the beauty of human ingenuity, the the beauty 640 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,720 of an ordinary, you know, person down in their basement with like 641 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:28,320 a drill bit in certain several parts. 642 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,160 And I'm going to fix the freaking boiler, you know, using 643 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,720 what they've got on the spot, right? 644 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,800 I don't know if you're a fan of the film Apollo 13, which 645 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,400 probably didn't happen, but my favorite scene is where they've 646 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,520 got the guys floating out in interplanetary space and they 647 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,560 they that's. The one created is that the one 648 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,360 of Tom Hanks ever got it wrong. I think so I'm not I'm not that 649 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,320 big on on holiday could be, but it's the one where they have an 650 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,320 accident. There's an oxygen condenser like 651 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,440 blows up and they're floating around space. 652 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,640 My one of my favorite scenes in all of cinema is they've got the 653 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,920 Grumman guy sitting around the table and they've recreated the 654 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,240 problem in the next room. They've they know exactly what 655 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,280 they've got on board that spacecraft. 656 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,560 They've got some tape, they've got some square pegs, they've 657 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,960 got some round holes. They've got like parts of other 658 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,080 old oxygen condensers. And the guy walks into the room 659 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,200 with the engineer sitting around the table and he dumps all the 660 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,640 parts onto the table. And you know, you guys have an 661 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,440 hour and a half to make an oxygen condenser out of this 662 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,400 garbage. That's human ingenuity. 663 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,160 I've, I've got the, the, the notebooks of da Vinci. 664 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:48,400 Da Vinci invents the helicopter with a charcoal and paper. 665 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,960 He invents single element typing, right? 666 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,040 That's the that's the that's the thing the the IBM thing you 667 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,920 don't have the little tight basket Da Vinci long before 668 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,360 anybody was capable thought of single element typing. 669 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:09,240 We do not need the humanity needs to solve its own problems, 670 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,160 not make bigger problems and there's nothing pure about these 671 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,200 guys. This is massively driven by the 672 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,560 whole thing is capitalized. It like the capitalization 673 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,560 according to Empire of AI. This book I'm pointing at here. 674 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,720 The capitalization when I think just this year went up $8 675 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,760 trillion increased these companies. 676 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,880 It's just all this gold rush. It's got nothing to do with us. 677 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,800 This is about crushing us with central bank digital currencies 678 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,720 and with a smart which are, which are smart, which are every 679 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,640 dollar is pegged with coding and tagging and what you can and 680 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,240 can't buy and where you can and can't. 681 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,040 That's what this is about. I I was just reminded now when 682 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,760 you mentioned Apollo 13 just on that quickly. 683 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,640 My favorite moon landing movie actually ever is a recent one 684 00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,680 that came out by Apple. Have you seen it? 685 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,360 It's called Man on the Moon. I have not. 686 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,880 I think about a year ago. Listen, I highly recommend Is 687 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,600 it? Historical. 688 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,800 Is it it's it's about back at one or is it about a new 689 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:10,680 mission? No, no, no. 690 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,760 It's looking back, but it's got such a great twist. 691 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,720 It's very original. It's the OK. 692 00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:19,440 So let me put it like this. The assumption is that the moon 693 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,280 landing is real, right? That's the premise of the movie. 694 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,040 Fine, because it's a mainstream. Movie premise so let's work with 695 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,560 the premises so you. Have to work within the 696 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,960 parameters, but here's what I liked about it. 697 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,480 It stars a couple good actors, Woody Harrelson being one of 698 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,960 them. He is a character who basically 699 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,920 was this clown, this conspiracy theorist who argued that it 700 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,840 didn't happen, wasn't going to happen, and he was in charge of 701 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,120 setting up the the secret filming the the secret 702 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,080 production of the landing itself, which is what was going 703 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,880 to be played on TV. Now the fact is that it doesn't 704 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,480 matter that he's made to look cuckoo. 705 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,360 The point is that they actually entertained the idea, which I 706 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,200 thought was great. Right in a in a modern context, 707 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,520 they entertained the idea that the photography was fake. 708 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,120 And they brought in Stanley Kubrick, the I mean that that 709 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,920 whole aspect of of the moon. That theory about that and he 710 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,440 did indeed borrow F .9 lenses or something like that. 711 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,600 These like $25,000 whatever God knows how much lenses to film to 712 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,480 2001. But Kubrick was the cinematic 713 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,520 genius of of kind of of them all. 714 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,280 And if Kubrick filmed the moon landing, if he made that up as a 715 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:42,320 movie, he put in every conceivable photography error 716 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,120 into the moon landing to make it blatantly obvious that it had to 717 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,080 be fake, like 2 light sources and shadows going the wrong way. 718 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,480 And Kubrick was more than qualified to be able to insert 719 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,480 those errors, including the Coke bottle. 720 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,040 So to say that Kubrick shot that the only the only way that you 721 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,560 can make that work is, yeah, he was flipping it to NASA. 722 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,200 And he's like, oh, eventually people will be sophisticated 723 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,360 enough to look at. And people doubted it at the 724 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,200 time. But think of how destabilizing 725 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,160 this all is. Like we we live in the midst of 726 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,800 this Dist instability. We live in the midst of this 727 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,920 chaos. We live in the midst of the time 728 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,520 when when boys were afraid to ask girls out to the prom. 729 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,240 God damn. It's hard enough without that. 730 00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:33,840 It's hard enough without that. It's hard enough when you can 731 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,080 ask a girl out to the prom. How's AI or our technological 732 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,320 progress going to in any way fix that? 733 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,680 It's not knowing you've got 52% of kids and I will send you this 734 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,920 article the minute we're off called. 735 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,080 Am I allowed to use four letter words? 736 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,640 Yes. By by It's a Lily bit. 737 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,520 It's the blog Lily bit on Sub Stack. 738 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,000 It's called Fucking ourselves to Death. 739 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,000 And she pulled it down. It was one of the most 740 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,600 blistering, incredible investigative features I've ever 741 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,160 read in my entire life. And it was only up for a few 742 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,960 days. And I, I read the thing into my 743 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,120 show on Friday night, which I love to do. 744 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:20,000 And then it was, I sent it to a friend last night and she said I 745 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,400 the link is not working. She pulled it down by Sunday and 746 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:30,680 it talks about the sledgehammer that this is taking to young 747 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:36,560 people's relationships. Look, I'm, I'm, I'm old and I, I 748 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,080 know how to flirt with a woman and have it not seem like I'm 749 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:46,360 flirting, right? That's a beautiful. 750 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,280 I love your earrings, right? You're not, you're not calling 751 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,520 attention to the like nipples. You're like, I love your 752 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,640 earrings. Oh, I love the way your shoes 753 00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,160 match your right. This is a legit way to flirt, 754 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,400 right? Or you just talk about anything 755 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,080 and say, I read a book lately. What what book have you read 756 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,040 once that once that level of and, and people are terrified to 757 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,680 go off script. They were terrified to go off 758 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,080 script 10 years ago. They're terrified to go off 759 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,480 script. Flirting made impossible because 760 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,480 there's always a little off script and flirting, right? 761 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,400 And flirting's a very important level of human interaction. 762 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,200 We have to get to like each other. 763 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,680 We have to kind of feel each other out and check the vibes 764 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,360 and see like, do I like the way this person looks at me? 765 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,840 My wife made a great comment a couple of years ago, actually 766 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,600 now, but we would we were in a group of friends. 767 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,920 We were with a group of friends and they were chatting about 768 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,320 exactly what you're talking about now, how guys get they're 769 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,600 now checking out and they don't want to make these moves. 770 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,600 Things like buying a drink, you know, for a girl in a bar, like 771 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,200 the old school type of stuff and cat calling, cat calling, being 772 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,680 whistled at. My wife said, you know what, 773 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,080 like what's wrong with being whistled at? 774 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,240 She said now nobody wants to whistle at me. 775 00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:04,800 And she's like, that sucks. And you must be good enough 776 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,680 women complaining that the guys aren't catcalling. 777 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,880 But this is the, the feminism, the the guiding rule of feminism 778 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,960 is heads I win, tails you lose. That's how So you can't be you 779 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,760 can't be listening to feminists. And I also think that the, the, 780 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,720 the girls are in some ways smarter than the boys. 781 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,520 I think I'm not saying any ways. In many. 782 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,800 Ways there are and and to be to be a man, you have to catch up 783 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,080 with that. You have to you have to master 784 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,320 that game. But what's happening is that the 785 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,920 that for the boys who are first of all, who like the girls and I 786 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:50,760 realize there's less and less to like, but still I I will forever 787 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,560 like women. I just kind of like women. 788 00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,960 It's got nothing to do with anything except they're like 789 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,560 female and I like female. For the boys who like female, 790 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,600 this is this is kind of like the the the game. 791 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,400 It's their game. Because you go to college now 792 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,920 the majority, the majority of college students are women. 793 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:18,800 It's like I'm waiting for the guy to say, yeah, majority of 794 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,520 the college students are women. Isn't that great? 795 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,200 Isn't that great? Men, actually, men actually, I 796 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,080 think in the main, are Dumber than women. 797 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,440 I think this is a reality that we don't really want to accept. 798 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,600 In a certain way. Well, I mean if you're. 799 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,880 Dying the Lincoln Tunnel. Or even if you plot it on a bell 800 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,120 graph, right, Men are more extreme than than women, which 801 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,600 is I think, I think that's probably correct and that's 802 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,920 probably how it should be. This is This is why you have men 803 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,080 who make films like Jackass where they will form each other 804 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,360 riding bicycles down a road into a tree and then laughing about 805 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,880 it. But women look at that and they 806 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,760 go, that's stupid, why would you want to do that? 807 00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,480 Yeah, but they do. They do other suicidal things 808 00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:59,000 like. Hilarious. 809 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,480 And that's also why, like, that's also why the best chefs 810 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,000 are men and the why the fastest are men and why the strongest 811 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,440 are men. Because we do extreme things. 812 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,280 Women, we have determination. We have the ability to focus on 813 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,200 something and not stop until it's done. 814 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,400 Panama Canal. I mean, read the story of the 815 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,200 Panama Canal. They had to build a freaking 816 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,520 canal over a mountain, a mountain range. 817 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,800 This is not like dig a trench between the Atlantic and Pacific 818 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:24,880 Ocean. Oh, look, there is an isthmus. 819 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,520 Dig a trench. No, they had to float. 820 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,840 This is why I want to go. When I learned that, I didn't 821 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,040 understand that. Once I heard that, I'm like, do 822 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,840 they have Panama Canal cruises? I got to see this. 823 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,720 You mean you can get on a boat and you can have the boat lifted 824 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,120 over a mountain by water? That's what men do. 825 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:44,480 And we need that. All civilization is men. 826 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,880 We had a car hit a tree here and knocked down the power pole. 827 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,400 I knew my power was going to be out. 828 00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:55,840 So I, I went back a couple of times and then finally I went 829 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,080 back and I stayed for the last three hours with the with the 830 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,160 crews who were sorting out this mess. 831 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,920 There were no women. It was a bunch of guys and they 832 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,480 had to re drill. This is an ordinary work a day 833 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,760 repair. They had to put a new pole in, 834 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,560 they had to drill through rock, they had to mount a new 835 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,560 transformer. They had to sort all these. 836 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,560 It was a complete well. That's dudes. 837 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,280 But but that's actually, I mean, I've covered this a couple times 838 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,720 on my, on my show, Eric and you, I mean you, you're preaching to 839 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:35,280 the converted because what what feminism has done, it has ruined 840 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,600 gender roles. And that's a very unpopular 841 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,800 opinion, but it really is the truth. 842 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,600 Intentionally so. We do actually have roles that 843 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,840 we are just simply better AT. And of course there's lots of 844 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,720 crossover and all that sort of thing, and no one's actually 845 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:51,840 arguing that. But there are essential roles 846 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,880 that we do best at and and we need to also just be honest with 847 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,520 ourselves about it. Yeah, and it doesn't mean there 848 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,200 are not some transcendent mathematical geniuses among 849 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,160 women and transcendent engineers, but usually guys are 850 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,880 drawn more to that. I'm a little odd in that, like 851 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,840 growing up, I was equally into women's crafts and men's crafts. 852 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,640 I had my Remington book, you know, I wanted my 12 gauge 853 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,080 shotgun. And I was also interested in how 854 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:25,000 that sewing machine works. And it was one guy who wanted to 855 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,320 make clothing. So there's the engineering angle 856 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,240 of that. But the women in my family were 857 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:34,440 all very good seamstresses. And then I'm realizing, oh, this 858 00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,840 is architecture. It's not really that easy to 859 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:43,320 make a make a dress, to cut the fabric, to sew all you got to be 860 00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,000 pretty damn smart. But now you can do it with AI. 861 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,960 Yeah, sure, you can have three-dimensional printing and 862 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,720 you just go command P and it spits the dress out of your Poly 863 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,760 polyester printer. But you're going to get a very 864 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,760 sub paw result. Yeah. 865 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,960 Well, because a dress is art as well as, as as architecture. 866 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,520 It's art. You, you know, it's art. 867 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,120 So we we're going to lose that. And but what I'm more concerned 868 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,560 about is the loss of the aesthetic sense. 869 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,640 That's the problem. It's not so much the computers 870 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,480 are doing things, it's the loss of the aesthetic sense. 871 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,320 Creativity. But the sense to sense the 872 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,600 creativity to to feel the beauty of writing. 873 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,720 Like I'm reading, I'm always reading and I'm always reading a 874 00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:34,040 book. This, this book has been 875 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,800 absolutely riveted by the quality of her writing. 876 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,000 And she's spending the first like 10 pages explaining the 877 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,000 interview and fact checking process. 878 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,520 I'm like, you got me. I, I know exactly what you're 879 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,200 talking about. We're in the same business. 880 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,400 Ah, you follow me. So I I'm like in love with her 881 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,000 because plus I've seen her in a lot of interviews, but now it's 882 00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,880 like, oh, the Sapio part of my mind is like, holy shit. 883 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,800 She is fully dedicated onto the story 5 years before that. 884 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,360 I I, I love that with passion. It's interesting what you're 885 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,000 saying also because that extends into so many other facets you're 886 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,720 talking, I mean, there you, right? 887 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:20,560 Right now you're holding a pen and often, often jokes about. 888 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,120 An old pencil fashion pencil. The eraser because I'm. 889 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,320 Often joke about this though, when someone says you know, 890 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,000 you're can you write it down? Well, what is what is paper and 891 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,720 what does it do? You know, because we we write 892 00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,280 everything down now on our phone or our tablet. 893 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:36,880 Well, let me give you an example. 894 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,000 Now you know that I'm an astrologer, and I don't blame 895 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,280 you for wondering what that means. 896 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:48,760 But my charts look like this, or I draw them, or I draw on them 897 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:50,600 like this. Everyone's an original piece of 898 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,920 artwork. So there's, there's art and 899 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,320 architecture in here. It's both. 900 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,880 And so there's mathematics involved and then there's 901 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,840 intuition involved. But I, I encourage my students 902 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,880 to print the thing and completely make it your own work 903 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,680 of art. So we, I sell chart sets. 904 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,040 I put in multiple copies so you can screw it up. 905 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,080 I put in the blank wheel. Most people are just staring at 906 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,800 the computer screen. I think it's a completely 907 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,760 different experience to be staring at a screen, to be doing 908 00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,880 this sublime intuitive thing that, by the way, goes back to 909 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,800 the era of music theory and the and the alphabet 2500 years ago. 910 00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,520 It's like reading a book versus reading a Kindle. 911 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,560 Yeah, I would never. I can't stand reading Kindles. 912 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,560 I print. I print out many articles. 913 00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,360 Also, I'd much rather read off the printed page. 914 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,920 It gets unwieldy after a while. You know, I my printer, I did a 915 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,800 test. I printed 43,000 pages on my. 916 00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,720 I have two of them and one of them informed me I had printed 917 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,120 43. Wow, that's a lot of reams of 918 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:55,520 paper. That's 20. 919 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,960 It's like how many reams? 25 reams of paper, basically, 920 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:05,320 no, much more than that. Anyway, the the involvement of 921 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:10,480 digital, it's totally sucks you in as a user. 922 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,680 Now we're completely involved with each other. 923 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,440 We've built a relationship over time. 924 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,160 We've designed our studios, we've refined our craft and all 925 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,040 all this stuff. People watching, some obviously 926 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,240 are going to be broadcasters, but they're on the other end of 927 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:31,920 that creativity and, and, and digital and AI encourage being a 928 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:38,000 consumer and not a creator. The creation is, no one would 929 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,000 have ever imagined you could fit an entire van of equipment into 930 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,000 this. This is Kurt Vonnegut, by the 931 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,400 way, who saw it? Who knew the problems we were 932 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:50,520 going to be having? This would have taken a truck 933 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,320 easily. Just the darkroom, the recording 934 00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,360 studio. There's a recording studio in 935 00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:57,640 there. A darkroom. 936 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,000 Basically a post office printing press. 937 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,040 Who could have imagined that? OK, Eric, I'm looking at the 938 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,840 time. Give me. 939 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,800 Give me a closing thought, a negative wisdom. 940 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,560 The, the most important thing we must not sacrifice to this 941 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,640 technology is our relationships, our willingness to be 942 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,400 vulnerable, our willingness to talk to each other and be 943 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,120 truthful with each other. And this. 944 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,360 And, and then right along with that is our ability to make art, 945 00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,000 our ability to find ourselves through the work that we do to 946 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,880 process the terrible things that happened on this planet to us 947 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,560 through the, through the creative process. 948 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,240 We are going, if we keep going on this trajectory, we will lose 949 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:48,560 each other and we will lose ourselves. 950 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,640 And that's what, that's why I'm concerned. 951 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,840 That's what has me concerned. And also how to wear cool 952 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,320 glasses like like you. They're just my reading glasses, 953 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,400 10% tint but they they look cool on video. 954 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,400 They do. They've they've kind of got that 955 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,680 Bono vibe. And I squint. 956 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,720 He has glaucoma. That's why he wears glasses. 957 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,080 Does he really? Is that just like image thing? 958 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,480 Glasses are for, that's what the sunglasses are about. 959 00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,840 Yeah. And for me, I just tint my 960 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,320 reading glasses and I'm, I squint a lot and I squint into 961 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,120 the I just, I don't really pop my eyes open. 962 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,160 You're good. You're good at the guys wide 963 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,040 thing. So it kind of Shields me from 964 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,680 that a little bit the the fact that I, I squint a little bit. 965 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:41,840 OK, Eric, how can I follow you? Two substacks, Planet Waves dot 966 00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,680 substack and Planet Waves FM dot substack. 967 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,680 Is that clear enough? Planet Waves FM dot Substack and 968 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,840 Planet Waves dot substack. The news and technology in 969 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,400 politics is more on Planet waves FM dot substack and the 970 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,960 astrology stuff like Planet waves dot substack and there's a 971 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,120 lot of overlapping between them. My program is called Planet 972 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,760 Waves FM and the short shortest way to get there is Planet Waves 973 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,720 dot FM. That's good enough. 974 00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,320 Eric Coppolino, thank you for joining me in the trenches. 975 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:12,720 Jeremy.