1 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,640 Welcome to UK column viewers and listeners. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,360 Really good to have you back. This is Part 2 of my interview 3 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:21,080 with J Michael Waller, who is the author of Big Intel, How the 4 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:27,600 CIA and FBI Went From Cold War Heroes to Deep State Villains. 5 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,960 And I'm going to say to our audience that this is really 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,560 fascinating book. It's kept me occupied for 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,400 several weeks and produced a really interesting discussion 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:45,120 with Mike in part one. But can I say if you're joining 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,280 us today and you haven't seen part one, my suggestion is that 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,920 you go on to the UK Common website and watch part one first 11 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,160 because it gives the introduction to Mike and his his 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,360 not only his work on the book, but also his personal history 13 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,960 connected with the intelligence services and psychological 14 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:08,880 warfare. And then it leads in through to 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,200 the start of his analysis of what's been happening in the US, 16 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,440 not only in politics and society, but deep inside the US 17 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,440 intelligence system. So see that part one first and 18 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,880 then come back to Part 2 if you've already seen it. 19 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,480 And you're with us ready to go for the next episode. 20 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Thank you very much. And I don't think you'll be 21 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,160 disappointed. Mike, thank you very much for 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,800 joining me again. It's great to be back with you. 23 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:44,320 We ended having covered a lot of ground, which I'm just going to 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,040 try and summarise in in a couple of words, which is that you had 25 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,720 taken us through things that you were seeing happening not only 26 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,920 in U in US society, but particularly amongst the very 27 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,720 agencies that people would expect to be protecting US 28 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,960 society, the CIA and the FBI. And essentially this brought us 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,040 down to you crap me if if I haven't got this right, but this 30 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,240 brought us down to what you saw as a psychological attack on the 31 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,640 United States itself. Yeah, it's it's a psychological 32 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:24,320 attack on all of us, on all Western societies. 33 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,920 And because the the adversaries that created this who are long 34 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:31,920 gone, the program still survives living on its own, but the 35 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,840 adversaries themselves are gone. They couldn't, could not bring 36 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,040 us down through a violent Bolshevik type revolution 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,440 because people in Western societies had too much hope and 38 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,640 too much upside for working within the system. 39 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,760 So instead the the strategy was to destroy the system from 40 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,680 within and persuade the citizens of all our countries to destroy 41 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,440 our own system from within by attacking our heritage and our 42 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,840 culture and all our all the beliefs that we've had for 43 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,400 centuries. I think that we got to about 44 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:10,960 chapter 27 in your book in part one and 28. 45 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,080 I'll, I'll just give you this because I'm, I'm sure it'd be 46 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,920 useful to have a little bit of a prompter. 47 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:22,560 Chapter 28 was main sources of the allegations, foreign spies 48 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,080 and you gave a mention to Christopher Steele and the 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Hunter Biden laptop. And I was particularly keen if 50 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,440 you'll tell us a little bit about that. 51 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:35,080 And then you go on from there. You're talking about Antifa, 52 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,920 just an idea, Trump, Team Biden, You're talking about five former 53 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,880 CIA directors, the incident at the Capitol defending against 54 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,640 communist Chinese spies. And then you get into the 55 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:59,200 positive stuff, which is rebuilding US, sorry, rebuilding 56 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,880 American intelligence. And that leads through to 57 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,560 Chapter 37, which is what to do with the FBI. 58 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,440 And then you've got a conclusion which I think is can be 59 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,399 summarised by big Intel is bad Intel. 60 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,800 But if you will take us into that second-half of the book and 61 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:25,560 in particular what you were seeing when you started to talk 62 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,760 about foreign spies and the likes of Mr. Steele and the 63 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,840 Hunter Biden laptop, because I know this will be of great 64 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,320 interest to AUK audience in particular. 65 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,080 Christopher Steele was the main source of allegations that 66 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,040 Donald Trump was somehow a Russian tool or Russian 67 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,200 government asset who was sort of our Manchurian candidate in the 68 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,480 United States to take over the United States on Russia's 69 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,080 behalf. This was found to be a lie in 70 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,240 two federal investigations, 1 by former FBI Director Robert 71 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,840 Mueller and another one by a special prosecutor, Durham. 72 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,440 And there was there was no basis in fact to Christopher Steele's 73 00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:15,160 allegations. The the now Christopher Steele 74 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:21,680 was an MI 6 officer and professionally, but prior to 75 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,720 being in six, he had been part of a campaign to unilaterally 76 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,960 disarm NATO. He was with the British Campaign 77 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,800 for Nuclear Disarmament as an activist at the time when the 78 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,680 CND was being used by the Kremlin as part of a Soviet 79 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,560 active measures campaign to destroy NATO and to destroy the 80 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,920 British and American nuclear deterrence. 81 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,960 So this is the type of person who was behind these 82 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,480 allegations. Wow. 83 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,640 I did. I did not. 84 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,600 I did not know that. I didn't know if his connections 85 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,440 with nuclear disarmament. That's extremely interesting. 86 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Yeah. And well, I think the other 87 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,920 comment I'd make on this. So it's not unusual that we find 88 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,920 British intelligence agents meddling inside US politics. 89 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,520 We seem to have always had a finger inside the pie. 90 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,200 That's how I see it. I don't know how you would view 91 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,000 that. Well, George Washington had a 92 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,760 problem with that too. So it goes back a very long way, 93 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,560 but under very different circumstances. 94 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,040 And since our countries have been such strong, the it's been 95 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,360 in the British interests, not necessarily the American 96 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,560 interest. But if we consider each country 97 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,560 has its own national interests and sometimes those interests 98 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,440 won't won't be the same. And so it's been in in British 99 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,320 interests to get involved in American politics from time to 100 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,640 time, just as the United States gets involved in other countries 101 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,640 politics from time to time. But it's a very different issue 102 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:02,240 when former British intelligence officers meddle in American 103 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:08,160 politics with falsehoods to disrupt and polarize our system. 104 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,280 That's a hostile act, not by the British government because this, 105 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,000 in this particular case, the individual was acting, we hope, 106 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,880 as a private citizen. But but nevertheless, it's, it's 107 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:28,880 a divisive, an extremely divisive action by really what 108 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,240 amounts to a hostile foreign actor as an individual hostile 109 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 being. Just because he is a British 110 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:40,080 citizen and is is, is a citizen of our closest ally does not 111 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,160 mean that he himself is doing work beneficial to us. 112 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,000 Now parallel with Christopher Steele's false allegations were 113 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,040 allegations by a Russian asset that the FBI had. 114 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,640 He was a Russian citizen who the FBI believed at the time was 115 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,400 still working for the Russian security services. 116 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,560 So you have you have Steele and this Russian individual both 117 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,800 providing the the raw information to create these 118 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,600 allegations that the FBI then leaked to the press that a top 119 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,800 presidential candidate with half the country's support was a 120 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,840 Russian asset. And I, I have to ask this 121 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,040 question because in part one, you, you expressed some you want 122 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,920 in your book, you're expressing concerns about how the FBI is 123 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,600 behaving at the step at the time that the FBI stepped forward 124 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,360 with these allegations. Could. 125 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,520 Could, could you, as American citizen, trust what the FBI was 126 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,400 actually doing in relation to the case as a whole? 127 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,680 No, this is this is part of the breakdown of public confidence 128 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,840 in the FBI if if there had been problems for a long time. 129 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,280 But you can always forgive a human institution for making 130 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,720 mistakes if those mistakes were corrected. 131 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,560 But in this case, the FBI was adamant that that that Trump was 132 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:07,120 a Russian asset, that the that and and in so doing, through 133 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,080 falsehoods, it undermined public confidence in the ability of our 134 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,960 own government to detect and combat Russian disinformation 135 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,120 and Russian covert operations. If the FBI was spreading lies 136 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,480 about these things, who do you trust anymore? 137 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,760 So we as a public didn't have an institution that we could trust 138 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,000 to protect us against hostile Russian foreign subversive 139 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,600 political attack. And that's a key point, isn't 140 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,440 it? Society starts to become 141 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,720 confused as to as to where the truth is, who they can, who they 142 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,120 can trust. So we, we have a lot of 143 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,240 information certainly being thrown at us here in UK at the 144 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,000 moment that it's only social media that's pushing out 145 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,680 misinformation and disinformation. 146 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,160 But when when government assets are doing that, people in the 147 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,320 population are becoming really disorientated and confused. 148 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,120 Right. And then it even gets more 149 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,560 complicated because we, we as a, as a public, we trust the 150 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:14,880 British, you know, implicitly. And but when a former 151 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,480 intelligence officer from the British Secret Service is doing 152 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,360 this and there's no public pushback from the British Secret 153 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,560 Service saying he doesn't speak for us. 154 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,640 And indeed there are. There are. 155 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,760 We know for a fact the FBI was using some of the Five Eyes to 156 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,520 spy on American citizens to help the FBI circumvent domestic laws 157 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,440 against spying against their own citizens. 158 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,920 That undermines public confidence in our closest ally. 159 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,600 You've said something which I, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised 160 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,360 at, but but actually I'm, I'm quite shocked. 161 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,280 And that is that there's inherent trust when it's the 162 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,760 British doing things. Because I'm here living in this 163 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,400 country in the last 20X years of my life has been me coming to 164 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,840 the realisation that I can't trust a thing my government says 165 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,960 almost. So that's quite a statement that 166 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:17,280 that trust is so, so strong in the US for what may come out of 167 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,280 the mouths of British intelligence assets. 168 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,760 We've been well indoctrinated through a lot of Fleming books 169 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,320 and movies and other things that glorify that the the British 170 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,240 Secret Service, but we also have a genuine affection for sort of 171 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:38,440 everything that's that's indigenous to the UK and and you 172 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,400 know, and have since at least World War Two, if not many of us 173 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,720 4. And so when, when this type of 174 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,520 of confidence, it not just say not not just the British Secret 175 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,440 Service, but in the UK in general, when that deteriorates, 176 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,160 I mean, where are we both as countries, we need each other. 177 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,920 Yes, yeah, that's fascinating. OK, so let's let's leave that 178 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,760 one for a moment. Take us on to the Hunter Biden 179 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,880 laptop because certainly there has been an an awful lot said 180 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:14,960 and printed on media and, well, mainstream media and social 181 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,320 media about the whole of the Biden affair. 182 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:23,360 So it it, it appeared to be a really big ugly bubble where it 183 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,320 was everywhere. And now it seems to have just 184 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,560 almost disappeared. So tell us what you saw about 185 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,760 the episode and where you think it is now. 186 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,120 It was interesting to have an insider's view of that episode 187 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,840 because I had access to the contents of part of the contents 188 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,440 of the Hunter Biden laptop before it became public. 189 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,960 So I vetted a lot of the emails and other communications 190 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,480 concerning Russia and, and Central Asia and some from 191 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,680 Ukraine. So we so we knew in advance, we 192 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,720 knew the original source. So we had the whole provenance 193 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,520 and the whole chain of custody of the information. 194 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,920 So we knew that it was legitimate. 195 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,640 And so there was a good sized team of us going through these 196 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,200 materials to evaluate them well before the laptops contents were 197 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,600 released to the public. So when the when those contents 198 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,840 were released and then immediately came back the 199 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,160 allegation that this was Russian disinformation, we knew that 200 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,960 something was wrong. And this is the, this is the 201 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,160 crux of it. So I'll, I'll say the words. 202 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:34,280 But what we had what appears to be criminal activity going on by 203 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,480 somebody with connections to the highest political levels in the 204 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,720 states. And when, when that activity 205 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:47,160 started to be exposed, then in step the state in order to say, 206 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,600 well, actually this is just disinformation, ignore it, 207 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,360 right? Right. 208 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,120 And it was timed, of course, the release of the laptop was timed 209 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:02,400 and it was October of of 2020 right before our elections. 210 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,680 But the denunciation of it was, was, is was very interesting 211 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:14,320 because political activists who were supporting Joe Biden came 212 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,080 out and, and they organized. These were intelligence 213 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,640 professionals who became political activists, came out 214 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,800 and they had 51 former senior intelligence officials, five 215 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,640 former CIA directors, a whole lot of different operatives and 216 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,760 analysts and and officers, and then a lot in the military field 217 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,880 and other industrial and other intelligence organizations to 218 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,280 come up. 51 of them apply their names to a letter with the false 219 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,880 headline that this was Russian disinformation. 220 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,440 The letter said it had all the hallmarks of Russian 221 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,040 disinformation. And then the usual caveats that 222 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,440 they can't tell one way or another. 223 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,920 But the group wanted their headline that it was Russian 224 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,400 disinformation because this was three days before the Biden 225 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,800 Trump presidential debate when Biden was able to say this 226 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,440 laptop stuff that's coming out from the Trump camp is a lie. 227 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,080 Here we have 51 former senior intelligence people saying that 228 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,200 it's Russian disinformation. So that itself was a political 229 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,240 operation by intelligence people designed to disrupt our 230 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,160 political process. Yeah. 231 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,840 And of course, this is unbelievably serious because 232 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,480 you, you have you have your own intelligence services fully 233 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,400 disrupting the democratic process inside the states. 234 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:40,800 Right, right. And they're unaccountable. 235 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,840 Now, all these 51, as with Christopher Steele in his case, 236 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,880 these were all former officials. But in the intelligence world, 237 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,200 you never know. Are they still former. 238 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,080 And, and so many of them are, so many of them are, are active and 239 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,920 they maintain active security clearances. 240 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,880 So they're still part of the intelligence community, but when 241 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,120 you have former CIA directors and former senior CIA officials 242 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,880 throughout American intelligence tradition, which which only 243 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,200 extends for World War Two, they they're, they're considered to 244 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,040 to continue to speak as well connected intelligence 245 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,400 professionals for the intelligence community. 246 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,600 So what they say has a high degree of currency and and it is 247 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:32,720 it is logical and and expected that their views imply the views 248 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,040 of the intelligence community. If we take your analysis to it's 249 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,320 to to the end point, what it's saying is that within America at 250 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,920 the moment are forces which are absolutely working to working 251 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,120 counter to the democratic system. 252 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,800 In in America, you you're absolutely under attack. 253 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,840 Not by an outside agency. You're under attack by by 254 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,000 effectively, your own people. Right. 255 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,480 And they're unaccountable. There's no oversight there. 256 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:07,520 It's so, so this is, this goes completely outside of our 257 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,200 constitution. There is no check and balance 258 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,319 and no public accountability for it. 259 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,960 So you have you have a state within a state that's developed. 260 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,440 A state within a state, yes, absolutely. 261 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:25,920 OK, and this one pops into my head, but Hunter Biden laptop, 262 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,920 can I ask anything about the Hillary Clinton emails? 263 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,480 Because that was another one where a large amount of data was 264 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,000 circulating, but the public, the American public at least, never 265 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,920 seemed to get the absolute truth about what was hidden in those 266 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,080 emails. Right. 267 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,640 And we still don't have answers to those questions, you know, 268 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,560 many, many, many years after the fact. 269 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:57,120 That was a different case where Hillary Clinton as a as a state 270 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,000 was circumventing the law or to breaking the law because all 271 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,680 communications between government officials on 272 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,440 government business have to be done through government servers 273 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,640 and archive with the National Archives. 274 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,120 In Hillary Clinton's case, she had a private server installed 275 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:21,000 in the bathroom of her house to circumvent all of that, so there 276 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,160 would be no archival record of the things she was working on as 277 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,560 Secretary of State. So not only was that a major 278 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,240 violation of the law, but then you had classified information, 279 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,120 which is understood to have been put on those servers of a highly 280 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,400 sensitive nature that was open to compromise because it didn't 281 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,400 have any of the security features that a Secretary of 282 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,920 State of the United States would need. 283 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,840 So again, this is, this is another massive breakdown of 284 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,080 well, it's part of its breakdown to democracy, but it's, it's 285 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,920 bait, it's a breakdown also of the investigatory powers, isn't 286 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,760 it? Because if these, if these, 287 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,520 we'll call them allegations are, are not investigated properly, 288 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,240 then do you, do you have any form of, can you have any form 289 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,160 of confidence in the, in the security services, be it the CIA 290 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,240 or the FBI? No, I mean, imagine you've got 291 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,400 your we just have our own domestic American interests 292 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,400 here, but you also have international issues. 293 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,160 Imagine being a a foreign leader in contact with the American 294 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,040 Secretary of State and you have no confidence that those 295 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,840 communications will be secure. You have no knowledge that those 296 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,680 communications are being run through a server in her bathroom 297 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,200 with with no integrity to the to the security of this. 298 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,400 So anybody can can pick up the the secrets that are being 299 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,480 discussed. Yeah. 300 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,680 And, and I'd like, I'd like to say this because if we've got 301 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,280 people in the American audience, I, I'm here as the Brit asking 302 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,200 some pretty tough questions about how America is conducting 303 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,680 itself. And I'll say that as I'm asking 304 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:06,040 these questions, a few years ago we were looking at a situation 305 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,280 where there had been clearly been the abuse of children at 306 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,280 high political levels in in Britain. 307 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,520 And it was our own intelligence services, MI Five, that were 308 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,280 working to keep everything quiet in order to protect the 309 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,800 political leaders. This, this, this isn't hearsay. 310 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,280 This was reported quite openly by, you know, many credible 311 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,840 mainstream media sources. So we've seen the same problem 312 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,920 here with the intelligence services that you would have 313 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,280 thought would have been digging this stuff out to make sure the 314 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,520 people running the country were above board, honest and 315 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,960 certainly not criminal. The intelligence services were 316 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,320 working to protect those sorts of people. 317 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,280 So it it it it's happened here as well. 318 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,600 Sure. Then imagine now hostile foreign 319 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,240 actors, say the Russians or the Chinese or others who might also 320 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,120 be using this. So if the, if the internal 321 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:11,000 Security Service is keeping it secret and the, the, these are 322 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,640 the types of activity, you know, it's easy to blackmail and 323 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,840 compromise anybody who is abusing children. 324 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,280 Imagine what the Russians and the Chinese could have and the 325 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,840 leverage they would have over those politicians and officials 326 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,640 because it's all being kept secret. 327 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:32,120 If it's brought out to the light, then then there's someone 328 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,440 can't be blackmailed for it. I mean they can be have their 329 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,520 careers destroyed, but at least they cannot be blackmailed to 330 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,200 the detriment of the country. So what what the what the 331 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,360 counterintelligence or security services were doing there seems 332 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:48,360 to be helping cover up for these crimes and also assisting, 333 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,280 inadvertently we hope, foreign actors who would be exploiting 334 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,440 these these embarrassing and criminal secrets. 335 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,920 Yes. And this this also takes me back 336 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:05,000 to basic what I know as military vetting where the security 337 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,800 services look into the background of military personnel 338 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,640 to determine what level secrets they're going to have access to 339 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:20,040 and all they trustworthy people. So if you I know the same system 340 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,880 goes on in America that if you're going to have access to 341 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,960 classified material, you're going to get some form of 342 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,440 personal, professional, professional vetting to make 343 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:35,360 sure that you're you're safe. But as we've seen increasingly 344 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,080 liberal policies coming through government. 345 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,960 So a lot of of that has sort of disappeared into the long grass. 346 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,560 What I'm what am I getting at that if we go back 50 years ago, 347 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,720 probably if somebody had an affair and they were in a high 348 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,640 political position, this, this could be a big problem. 349 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,280 But we've now got to the situation here in UK at least, 350 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,040 where we can have politicians who can not only be having 351 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,880 affairs, they can be taking drugs on camera and organising 352 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,800 for drugs on camera. And yet they seem to survive 353 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,120 this. It's as though that's 354 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,320 acceptable. So what's the next level? 355 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,480 Well, probably we're going to go to some form of really serious 356 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,640 issue. Child abuse is one of them, 357 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,960 where that is the last domain. You can take drugs, you can have 358 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:35,720 multiple sexual partners, you can you can be doing all sorts 359 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,640 of things. That's now acceptable. 360 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,160 So you've got very little left before anything goes and once 361 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,520 that's acceptable, you have no, no control over morality or 362 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,560 honesty or democracy itself. So they the liberalisation is 363 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,320 part of the problem, which I think I'm correct in saying is 364 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,440 partly what you're warning about because this is the changing of 365 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,600 the mindset of the nation. You know, every society has its 366 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,400 own moral standards and those standards can change over time. 367 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,600 Some standards are eternal, some some are, are rather fluid. 368 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,840 But the whole object of the the the the campaign, the critical 369 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:24,520 theory campaign being waged against all Western countries is 370 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,440 to destroy the morals and destroy the the, the ethical 371 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,240 character of nations, to tear them down. 372 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:41,680 Once you accept paedophilia as a norm to be protected by the 373 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,280 authorities, you've lost your society. 374 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,080 Yeah, and that that is the statement and I believe that's 375 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,240 the situation that we're seeing in UK, but that will will say 376 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:58,040 will save that one. So probably the next thing to 377 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,880 move to after Hunter Biden is to Trump, because one, one of the 378 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,480 chapters you were talking about Trump and the the apparatus, if 379 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,640 I got that correct, and you were saying that he saw things, but 380 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,400 he didn't actually have a plan to counter what he saw. 381 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,280 Can you tell us a bit more about what you were seeing in relation 382 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,120 to that? Yeah. 383 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:24,520 Well, first, Donald Trump didn't really think he would win in 384 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,320 2016. He didn't think he would beat 385 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,680 Hillary Clinton, so he didn't have a plan to take office. 386 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,920 And, and then even if he did anticipate taking office, he 387 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,280 thought you could run America like you'd run a business. 388 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,880 You just put the right people in on top and then they would 389 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,320 follow orders from the CEO. That's not how it works. 390 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,440 He learned that the hard way. So he didn't come in with the 391 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,160 strategy. He didn't come in with a plan 392 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,560 because he didn't have a strategy to guide the plan. 393 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,320 He didn't have the team to put in place. 394 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,200 It was a very eclectic last minute type of team. 395 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,960 A lot of it was very inexperienced and and there was 396 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,400 a lot of acrimony with him. So he came in with none of the 397 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:15,480 of the planning assets that an incoming president would require 398 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,680 to govern the way he had campaigned he would govern. 399 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,280 Apart from that he had then no executive orders. 400 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,640 So as a when a president comes into office, any president, he 401 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,720 issues executive orders that are dictates to tell the bureaucracy 402 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,280 how he wants things to run or how he wants them not to run. 403 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,160 He didn't come in with a with a library of executive orders 404 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,560 ready to implement on day one. Bill Clinton did, Ronald Reagan 405 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,280 did before him, Barack Obama did and Joe Biden did. 406 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,080 But Donald Trump did not. So he came in with no assets. 407 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,160 So he was hamstrung from day one. 408 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,360 And this allowed the the entrenched apparat, the 409 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,600 intelligence apparat, the what some call the deep state to 410 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:07,600 survive unmolested. So Trump never tried to bring 411 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,960 the FBI to heel. He just changed the leaders and 412 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,960 put in a took one leader out and put a weak leader in. 413 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,440 But the the central nervous system of the FBI, which has 414 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,440 become radicalized, is able to run that leader as its own. 415 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,360 The same with the FBI. When he put in Gina Haspel as 416 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,520 CIA, as Spartan the CIA, when he put in Gina Haspel as CIA 417 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,360 director, he allowed the CIA to run itself. 418 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,080 Yeah. So to his credit, he never tried 419 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,160 to politicize it. But to to his, you know, I 420 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,680 think, I think he's learned a lesson now. 421 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,480 He never tried to to prevent the the abuses that were being taken 422 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,360 place, to prevent them from happening, and then to hold 423 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,000 those abusers accountable. This is a very important part of 424 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,440 this thing for discussion because when we look at any 425 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,240 Western democracy and you start to ask within that democracy who 426 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,960 holds the power? And we'd like to say, well the 427 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,600 voters do. Because if the voters are 428 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,640 unhappy with what's going on, they can vote in their new 429 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,120 democratically elected representative and that makes 430 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,960 the change through the system. But it isn't quite as simple as 431 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:26,240 that because most of the Western States, and if if I focus on UK, 432 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,560 they've got an inherent machinery of government which 433 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,600 runs itself, we would call it the civil service. 434 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,560 These are the publicly recruited and paid officials that work in 435 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,680 the Ministry of Defence or the Department of Health, whatever 436 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,600 it is. And around them is an immensely 437 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,680 strong policy heading in whatever direction it's headed, 438 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,400 heading in. And even if you get a new member 439 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,680 of parliament that is elected who says, well, actually what 440 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,800 we're doing is wrong, they've got to try and change this, 441 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,400 change direction for a a very big beast. 442 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,600 It's like a super tanker. It's going to take time to turn 443 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,360 it. And I think that's what you're 444 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,080 getting at with the system. But over and above the civil 445 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,200 service, we've got very powerful advisers who who the 446 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,040 intelligence services must form the backbone of that because 447 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,080 they come in with information always as if it is factual, 448 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,920 because they've been very clever in determining what this 449 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,280 information is. And it's then presented to 450 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,040 political leaders and even the president or the Prime Minister 451 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,840 here in UK as factual. And how does the political 452 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,640 representative or the OR the Prime Minister or the president 453 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,320 challenge information which has come from the intelligence 454 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,040 system? How do they do that? 455 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,640 It's really difficult and this was why it's so important for 456 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,560 leaders as well as the public to be able to trust their 457 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,640 intelligence services, because it's not as if you, you say, 458 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,800 prove it to an Intelligence Report. 459 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160 It can't be proven because the sources and the methods of the 460 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,600 information are secret in order to protect, to protect those 461 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,680 sources and to protect those methods from our adversaries. 462 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,400 So you have to accept the the material at face value, but when 463 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,760 it becomes politicized or when there's a, when there's a 464 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,640 concern that it's become politicized and weaponized as we 465 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,320 call it, you can't trust it at all. 466 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,880 Yeah, it defends the whole. Purpose of having an 467 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,640 intelligence server. Yeah, Mike, in making that 468 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,760 statement, you're talking when you say politicized, you're 469 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,480 saying it's being politicized within the intelligence services 470 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,360 itself before it's being given to the politicians. 471 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,560 Yes, yes, it, it's, it because the world view is, has has 472 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,360 become so skewed. I mean, if you, if you consider 473 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,440 what's CIA now where you have, you're supposed to collect 474 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,560 intelligence based on a tasking, to collect intelligence of 475 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,080 certain natures from certain place or whatever. 476 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,960 That intelligence, that information is then analyzed. 477 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,520 It's vetted for its validity. It's then analyzed by different 478 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,680 groups of analysts, all professionals who who hopefully 479 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,240 will have different perspectives and different points of view in 480 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,360 order to, to validate and invalidate what's coming in. 481 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,120 And then they process that into what's called an intelligence 482 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,600 product, an analytical product that's then provided to the 483 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,400 president or his designees for the purpose of making sound 484 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,600 decisions. If you don't have that, if you 485 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:50,240 have intelligence that is now so skewed because of an ideological 486 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,520 transformation of the intelligence professionals 487 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,440 themselves, this or the critical merely embrace of critical 488 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,160 theory, The the view that America is, is a, is an evil 489 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,600 country founded by evil men for the purposes of, of, of building 490 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,120 and maintaining a white racial supremacist system and 491 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,520 oppressing the rest of the world. 492 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320 If you're believing that as an intelligence analyst and you're 493 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,080 letting that color your analysis of intelligence, you're 494 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,800 basically doing the enemy's work for him. 495 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,960 Yeah. And you're you're misinforming 496 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,080 and then deliberately disinforming the president and 497 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,600 his designees in this. And then the entire integrity of 498 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,400 the intelligence community is destroyed. 499 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,440 The same thing goes with the FBI and domestic security, but also 500 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,000 the rules of evidence, because the FBI is a domestic 501 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,680 intelligence service with police powers. 502 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,080 So it has both the rules of intelligence, but also the rules 503 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,920 of evidence that you would enter in court. 504 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,600 And if the FBI is going ahead with a, an entirely skewed view 505 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,280 of the nation and a skewed view of our constitutional system, 506 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,240 and even a a no longer believing in our constitutional founding 507 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,560 principles, it is going to take its, its, its, its powers and 508 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,000 authorities and abuse them to make the evidence fit the crime 509 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,640 they want to convict you of, as opposed to simply letting the 510 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,360 facts speak for themselves. Yeah. 511 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,440 And as a foreigner, as an outsider, I watched with 512 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,360 interest some of the congressional interrogations of 513 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,240 the of senior people in the FBI when they were being asked 514 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,640 questions about Hillary Clinton and and Hunter Biden laptop. 515 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,080 And of course, when a question was asked, which was the key 516 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,880 penetrating question, invariably they would come out with a 517 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,040 comment like, oh, well, we can't answer that question in this in 518 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,040 this venue. We, we can't, you know. 519 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,640 So whether a private response clear of the public was ever 520 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,360 provided or not, I don't know. But you could see constant 521 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,400 deflections when questions were coming in from senators that 522 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,360 were clearly hitting the spot. Yeah. 523 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,639 And it's not like the FBI witnesses don't know they're 524 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,480 going to get these questions because the the terms of the 525 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,760 hearings are discussed in advance and the witnesses are 526 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,400 told please be prepared to address these types of 527 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,080 questions. And the FBI can always say, 528 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,320 look, this is sensitive information, we can tell you in 529 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,600 a classified session. So both the House and the Senate 530 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,280 have secure rooms called skips for the purpose of discussing 531 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,800 highly classified information and not having any eavesdroppers 532 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,280 being involved. Those skips are used all the 533 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,719 time. But you've never once heard the 534 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,159 FBI director say, let's address this in closed session in a 535 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,199 skip. OK, so Trump was there. 536 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,280 He hadn't prepared properly, so he ends up being a president 537 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,680 being driven by the power system around him, if that's a 538 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,280 reasonable summary. And presumably that power system 539 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,120 had its own political agenda in that they didn't want Trump. 540 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,600 And So what did they decide? That they could just about 541 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,360 tolerate him until he was not there. 542 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,320 They didn't need to remove him. I'll choose my words carefully, 543 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,680 in a permanent way. They could simply wait for him 544 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,720 to atrophy, to him to him to fade away. 545 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,920 Right. And this is a game that 546 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,520 bureaucrats play anyway. If they, you know, they're 547 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,120 looking at their career is they essentially can't be fired from 548 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,920 government service. So they if they just wait and 549 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,280 they drag their feet for four years, then they can pretty much 550 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,320 get most of what they want. Now this defeats the whole idea 551 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,120 of having a civil service and its equivalent to the 552 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,720 intelligence service of the foreign service because there's 553 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,280 providing a service not servicing themselves in their 554 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,320 own agendas. So they they'll slow walk these 555 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,640 types of things. They'll do the same with issuing 556 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,520 or doing the background investigations for security 557 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,120 clearances. So they'll take their time on 558 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,240 it, dragging their feet so that the individual they don't like 559 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,880 will never get the background investigation finished so he can 560 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,920 be given a security clearance. And now you have, if Trump is 561 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,040 elected this fall, he'll only, he'll only be president for four 562 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,920 years. He cannot run for for another 563 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,880 term. So all the bureaucrats are going 564 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,960 to know this is just a one term president and we're just going 565 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,400 to give him a very hard time and drag our feet. 566 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:40,760 Right. So I've got to ask the question, 567 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,960 is Trump smart enough second time? 568 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,200 If he gets in for the second time, is he smart enough to 569 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,560 realise his mistake before and to be properly prepared to deal 570 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,320 with these these problems when he comes in? 571 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,920 Could he get it right this time? He could. 572 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,920 He's got a lot of outside help this time. 573 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,680 A lot of seasoned people have known known the problem. 574 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,560 He's also been terribly burned by this. 575 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,480 He's paid a terrible personal cost for this with the law fair 576 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,600 waged against him and the and the again, the security apparat 577 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,720 continuing to go after him. Imagine raiding the home of a 578 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:20,760 former president to to get documents that he actually got 579 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,040 legally, because under his authority, any president can 580 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,240 declassify whatever he likes and he can he can have custody of 581 00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:31,680 those documents in a security area for his own use in writing 582 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,480 his memoirs or starting his library or whatever else. 583 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,680 But imagine that the FBI could actually raid the former 584 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,160 president's home and disrupt everything. 585 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,360 This, you know, so this this affected Trump very personally. 586 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,960 And he now is, is developing a plan. 587 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,000 There was some some material published today about part of 588 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,160 that plan, about what to do with the FBII think it needs to be 589 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,480 strengthened, but at least it's an action plan and it's been 590 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,720 vetted by seasoned lawyers who'd served for a long time in the 591 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:06,040 Justice Department before. So yes, he's going to be there 592 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,600 with a plan, right, right on Election Day, and then he'll 593 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,560 have that period up to January to begin implementing that plan 594 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,160 behind the scenes so he can launch it on day one. 595 00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,080 OK, now I've got to, I've got to keep myself in check here 596 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,280 because I want to go. I want to stay on the subject to 597 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,320 the psychological warfare. But this is really interesting 598 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920 with Trump. He comes in and he tries to do 599 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,440 these things. What's your assessment of the 600 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,320 political will in America? Do you think that if he starts 601 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:45,280 to do the right thing, more senators will start to be braver 602 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,960 and to actually start to push in the right direction? 603 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,000 I, I can't give you a good answer on this. 604 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,600 Everything requires leadership. And if he came in the first time 605 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,320 as an outsider, most people, most Americans think that people 606 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,160 from New York City are obnoxious. 607 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,480 And so if, if you look at Trump's personality, he's very 608 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,600 much a New Yorker. He's not just Donald Trump. 609 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,920 Look at Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, also from New 610 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,680 York City, a very obnoxious man, but a very powerful man. 611 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,480 So there's a question of, of, of what kind of leadership do you 612 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,200 provide? Do you provide leadership that 613 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,480 inspires and leads, or do you inspire? 614 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,440 Do you provide leadership that alienates? 615 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:31,720 And I think he's gone more toward the you can see him now 616 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,440 with more of a welcoming mentality to bring more people 617 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,000 around him, to be more forgiving to people who had opposed him 618 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,840 before and to create that larger alliance that he had lacked 619 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,480 before. So I think, yes, he did not try 620 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,360 to engage Congress when he was president before. 621 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,040 He didn't do a very good job of that at all. 622 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,080 This time, you can see that he's building his political base in 623 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,200 both the House of Representatives and the Senate. 624 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,800 I've only just started with what I'd like to ask you. 625 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,240 So if I let you go now because you you've got another 626 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:08,680 commitment pressing you could could we effectively finish this 627 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,560 part with a bit a bit more time and another? 628 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,320 Date at your convenience. Want to do Part 3? 629 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,960 Well, yeah, because, because I'd like to just drift Trump to ask 630 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,000 you a little bit about Ukraine. But then the other thing was 631 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,160 that this this whole bit about how this psychological attack is 632 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,200 affecting people and what it's doing and what we can do about 633 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,360 it, This is where I'd ultimately like to get. 634 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,680 Because if people are saying we can't even trust our own 635 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,240 security services, they're lost. And how do we reassure people 636 00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:46,800 and what should we be, you know, showing that they can do or what 637 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,240 should they be thinking about? I'd like to get somewhere where 638 00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,040 we can say there's a beast attacking us. 639 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,040 How do we deal with it? I've got some ideas myself, but 640 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,800 I'm particularly interested in in how you view this because I I 641 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,080 sense by the time you got to conclusions in your book, you 642 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,680 were at the point where you're thinking, yeah, we got to do 643 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,600 something about this. And you said something like, 644 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,360 we're not going to lose or there's still time. 645 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,440 That's what you said. There's still time to do 646 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,960 something, but what should we be doing? 647 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,160 That's where I'd like to get with you. 648 00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,720 Yeah, well, well, in a nutshell right now, we could go into it 649 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,160 later on the the the way the career paths move. 650 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,560 You've had now these radicalised critical theorists, cultural 651 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,000 Marxists have been, you know, they're more than halfway 652 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,280 through their careers. So with one more presidential 653 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,920 term, they'll be running all of these intelligence organizations 654 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,600 with, you know, without any checks and balances on them. 655 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,680 So that's one of the reasons that this next presidential 656 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,040 administration is so important is because it's that that career 657 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,960 is chain of radical takeover has to be broken. 658 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,280 Yeah, absolutely. And just to just give you a 659 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,560 little teaser, I bought a number of books with me which I I 660 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,440 thought you might be interested in some of the things. 661 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,400 But this, this is a book that made a big impact on me. 662 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:16,560 The the it's basically U.S. Navy aviator, great experience. 663 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,680 But he also did some work in the US Ministry of Defence. 664 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,640 And the book was from trust to terror, Radical feminism is 665 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,600 destroying the US Navy. And this was a book that I came 666 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,200 across many years ago. It's not very thick. 667 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,240 It's it, you know, you can, you know that somebody's really 668 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:42,040 written it from the heart. But here was AUS Navy aviator 669 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,800 warning that the radical feminism was doing something 670 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,760 really dangerous inside the American military. 671 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,400 And to me, this this was a book that helped my thinking about 672 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:58,200 this psychological attack. But we'll, we'll save that. 673 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,760 Well, Mike, I've got to say thank you very much for joining 674 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,360 us. It's been really excellent. 675 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,240 And I'm really looking forward to getting you back to continue 676 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:11,640 this discussion into the psychological attack on not only 677 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,880 the US, but Western countries. Thank you for joining us.