None. Who are you?
Who is Eva? I am a journalist.
I started journalistically more as an activist and I'm, I'm not
ashamed to talk about that. I'm no longer an activist.
I'm no longer a Blogger. But that is how I started in
anything political. But I I didn't come from any
sort of academic or political background.
My parents were professional musicians, classical musicians.
I grew up in an environment not political at all, musical, and
frankly wasn't interested in in news or politics or anything
like that. Fast forward through many
travels before, during and after university, and then I started
becoming interested in the world more politically.
In the first issue that I was really aware of and ashamed that
I didn't know about and astonished that I didn't know
about was that of Palestine. And I would say that like
anybody who I don't want to say it stumbles across, but
literally it is how it is if you've grown up in the West with
Western media, western so called education that we aren't
introduced to the issue of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine to
create the state of Israel and the ongoing atrocities ever
since before 1948 and ever since.
So I was not aware of that. And when in the 2000s I became
aware this is at the end of the second uprising, the second
Intifada, I was, as I said, astonished and I was trying to
learn as much as I could and eventually I decided I have to
go there for myself. So that's been basically the
motivation in what I've done journalistically is always going
somewhere to see for myself. And then it became, I wanted to
try to give voice to the people I was meeting, realising even
though I was still incredibly naive at that point about how
media works, I understood that I wanted to somehow at least
transmit their voices and their stories to people outside so
that they would have the option to at least consider a different
alternative review or opinion than that which they were
presented by Media Hollywood, etcetera.
So I, in doing so, ended up spending quite a bit of time in
Palestine, both the West Bank and then in Gaza.
And then this year we'll probably talk about in Syria and
elsewhere. But on a personal level, you
you've also done one hell of a road trip.
I mean, you've got you. You went from Canada and you're
not in Russia? Yeah, that was, that was it's
it's pretty amusing because due to what I was reporting from
Syria, I started going to Syria in 2014 when it was extremely
unpopular to do so, both in terms of countering the Western
NATO narrative on Syria, which was just astonishingly awful.
And and very like once you, once you started looking at the
reality on the ground in Syria, it was just so clearly blatant
propaganda what NATO media was pumping out.
But because I was going to Syria in those very formative years, I
mean, the war in Syria started in in 2011.
And I actually, I can honestly and quite proudly say I never
believed it was a revolution. I was talking with people whose
opinions I trusted. I knew nothing about Syria.
I hadn't been there. I hadn't researched it.
But early on, when Western legacy media was saying there's
a revolution in Syria, I early on had information that to the
contrary. So I never bought into that
narrative. But it wasn't until I left Gaza
in 2013 and then in 2014 I was able to go to Syria.
Anyway. Fast forward to Russia.
So basically 2016 was a very important year in terms of the
war propaganda on Syria. And I spent four months of that
year in Syria, two months in the summer, two months in the
winter, going multiple times to Aleppo, which was a key city
being propagandised about. And as a consequence, at the end
of that year, Aleppo was liberated.
I had just left there. I'd been there for my fourth
time in in November. And after it was liberated,
Western media said it fell. It was literally liberated from
Al Qaeda and the various terrorist factions that had
occupied parts of the city. And because I was reporting what
I'd seen talking to civilians in not only Aleppo, but western
Syria, Damascus, elsewhere, I, they started saying not only me,
but basically anybody that was presenting a different narrative
were Russian propagandists. So from then on, I was called a
Russian stood, a Russian propagandist, et cetera, et
cetera. So eventually in 2019, I
decided, well, I should visit since, you know, I've been
dubbed all these. Things.
I mean, why not? Why?
Not, you know, that's, that's way overdue.
So I visited it and I loved it. I spent two months here in 2019.
I went to the Dunbast for my first time.
I went to Crimea and I, I saw a little bit else of the country,
Saint Petersburg in Moscow. And I loved it.
And so then in 2020, I was still living in Canada and I left in
February thinking I was just going to be gone for a month.
I planned to go to Syria and as, as you, that's actually around
that time that I became aware of you during the COVID tyranny.
And I ended up spending six months of 2020 in Syria because
once I arrived, the borders closed.
And so for me it was fantastic because usually I was there on a
very short visa and I, I watched all the craziness unfold in the
West and I thought, OK, I'm done.
Like I, I was done with living in in Canada for quite a long
time. We can talk more about that.
But basically, my values didn't align with at least the
government of Canada's values or lack thereof.
And I just felt more at home in Eastern cultures.
So I debated trying to stay in Syria because I speak Arabic.
So I thought that was like a kind of a given to just stay
there. But in the end, I decided to
come to Russia, and I'm really glad I did.
So I moved here in 2021 and have very happily so, yeah.
I've interviewed a bunch of people over the years who have
either been to Russia or live in Russia, and not one of them has
has said to me, no, no, no, I don't like Russia.
I'm I'm not going back. I mean, I'm, I'm aware of some
of the Western propaganda and stereotypes of Russia and I will
be honest and say I haven't travelled the entire country.
It is on my list to do. And I'm a pretty seasoned simple
traveller. So I, I, I think that when I
finally do do that road trip, I think it'll be fairly epic.
But then I look forward to dismantling the, the lies like
Russians don't have running water or all the ridiculous
things that are sad. But I will say this, I have
travelled extensively to the Donbass, St.
Petersburg, obviously Crimea and a handful of other places as Far
East that I've been has been Novi Sibirsk in Siberia.
And the transportation is fantastic in Russia.
It's just, it's, it's incredible.
So and actually even if you don't speak Russian, which I
didn't my first year or so here, you can get by fine.
People are are quite helpful. It's it's a very different
society than in the West and I love it here.
And yeah, I wouldn't move back to the West in ever, even if
bribed. Why do you think Western
propaganda exists? Why is everything that the West
is fed seems to be inverted? You know, the late John Pilger
could probably answer that far more eloquently because I'm sure
you're aware of his fantastic journalism and documentary film
making. But both he and some of the the
original journalists that really just went on the ground and and
did what journalists should do, would speak about how initially
journalism was going to places, interviewing people, writing or
later on doing video reports about that.
And then there arose this official narrative about what
journalism should be. And that was essentially it to
enable this Western propaganda to take hold.
So journalists like myself or Vanessa Beeley, who I know you
know very well, we would be called not journalist because we
didn't get our brains brainwashed in journalism
school, so to say, so to speak. But those who've gone, and I'm
not disparaging all who've gone through journalism school, but
this is to say you could spend however long it takes to get a
journalism certificate and then be awarded the title of being a
journalist without without having any skills or any
experience. But this is to make the point
that Western propaganda basically puts aside voices like
yourself, yourself like myself, like many colleagues, like
journalists from the region, whether it's Palestinian or
Syrian, etcetera, and makes it so that the only acceptable
narratives, until now, I think we can speak about how that's
falling apart. The only acceptable narratives
were those coming out of the official legacy media site,
which inevitably cited Western governments as their sources of
information. And so why does that exist?
Well, clearly when they're only promoting narratives that serve
NATO and that disparage against countries that are deemed as
enemy States of America, then it exists to.
But that that's the reason further existence is to promote
these narratives. So in the case of Palestine, you
know, only that which supports Israel can be promoted.
And you see it all the time. I mean, in the Gaza, which has
been under Israeli genocide, for which I think it's 20 months
now, you see so many headlines. If they even deemed to mention
Palestinians being slaughtered by Israel, they'll remove the
person, that entity that is doing the slaughtering and
they'll just say X number of Palestinians died.
And they won't say what the cause is, who the cause is.
But if the situation's reversed or if it's another area of the
world, they'll be very clear. They being the Western
controlled media to name who the perpetrator was, right?
So it's, it's, it's, it's absolutely astonishing.
And with with Gaza, it's, it's astonishing because we've seen
those paying attention. Even though it's not paying
attention. I would say can't help but have
seen if you're on social media, the horrors coming out of Gaza
because of brave Palestinian journalist and, and citizens as
well filming their genocide and putting it online.
See, even with all of that coming 24/7 out of Gaza, you
still have these legacy media headlines removing Israel as the
perpetrator of frankly, crimes against humanity, perpetrator of
genocide, of ethnic cleansing. So back to your question, This
is why. This is why Western propaganda
existed, because now they weren't able to control the
narrative on Gaza. They're still able to control
allowing Israel to continue slaughtering and starving
Palestinians and and with the aid of US mercenaries in Gaza,
but they can't control the narrative.
But Eva, we all know Israel is just defending itself.
Yeah, you know, that's the trope that's been used for so long.
Also the anti semitism trope. But frankly, it just makes me
blink, you know, And I think anybody who's paying attention
because it's it, it's I can't even laugh because the the
tragic situation of the manifold ways in which Israel has
slaughtered and tortured Palestinians, not only in Gaza,
but primarily, I mean, that's where the worst of it is, is
ongoing. And so you would have to be
absolutely well devoid of humanity for one, but also
removed from any sort of access to Internet to truly believe
that that's that's the it's the narrative.
They've, you know, even I'm sorry to go on a tangent here,
but Olmert, Ehud Olmert recently was on was shared on acts.
At least I can't remember where it was originally published
saying what is happening. I'm not verbatim.
I'm paraphrasing what is what what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza
is genocide and he's saying he said something like the
deliberate starvation of of civilians is unacceptable.
It's it's a war crime. Ehald Olmart was doing the same
thing when he was Prime Minister of Israel That that what they
dubbed Cast Lead the 2008, 2009 3 before in Gaza.
I was there at that time and the siege on Gaza, which began under
Olmar's rule, that was a siege. It is a siege of starvation.
All the policies that he enacted before he was then replaced,
they began with him. So he's a extreme hypocrite.
I don't know. It's not that important why he's
saying this. But the fact is this has been
Israeli policy for a very long time.
Sorry, that was a total tangent. But so it it, it is interesting
that he's, he came out and said, you know, starvation of
civilians is a war crime, but it's a war crime that he
introduced and this siege which came into effect.
I'm sorry, 2006 or 7 it it so brutally limited the import of
life essentials that life in Gaza was virtually impossible.
I remember just before I arrived reading articles about how
Israel was limiting the entry or forbidding the entry of cooking
gas, which is the primary means of cooking in Gaza.
So Palestinians started cooking or kerosene, which is terribly
toxic to cook over. So then Israel limited that
prohibited that from being entering Gaza.
There was reports back in 2008 and 9 and there was an Israeli
journalist, Amira Haas, who broke the story in, I think she
wrote it in 2012. But it referred to report in
2008, which I believe was called the Red Lines document, in which
the Israeli authorities calculated based on the
population in Gaza, the minimum number of calories needed to
sustain people, not to enable them to flourish as, as, as
life, but just to sustain them, keep them from dying.
And then they, they transmitted, they transferred that amount of
calories into the necessary need amount of food trucks that
should enter. And then they they cut that
down, I forget like by 1/3 or almost 50%.
So this sadistic policy of starving Palestinians is not new
and if I may, on top of which they decimated Palestinians
ability to provide their own food, whether by fishing or by
farming, by growing their own food.
They systematically destroyed this the wells and cisterns in
the eastern and northern areas where which is the prime
agricultural land in Gaza without water, how do you
irrigate? But then even courageous
Palestinians, I say courageous because they would go on their
land knowing they would potentially be gunned down by
Israeli soldiers and they would still try to find ways to to
irrigate their land, to harvest their crops and Israeli
soldiers, if not gunning them down, if the crops actually
managed to grow, then they'd throw incendiary devices onto
them and burn them. I mean, it was, it's so
sadistic. So all of these policies have
been going in on the sea. The fishers, whether they're on
a Hasakah, it's like a surfboard or a paddle board, whatever.
They paddle out a couple of kilometres and drop their Nets
and later pull the Nets in. Even when they're in their
swimming shorts on the surfboard like boards and clearly unarmed,
clearly no threat to this massive Israeli gunboat, they
would still be targeted by the Israeli gunboat and they'd be
fired at. They'd be abducted.
Or if they're in their fishing trawlers, then those would be
fired at by machine gunfire, by shelling and by heavy duty water
cannon, which might sound well, we've seen the images from
France, I think it was, or Holland.
It heavy duty water cannons are powerful.
So you, you fire this at a fishing trawler which can't
escape this massive Israeli gunboat and it destroys the
trawler. And, and then as I mentioned,
the Israeli Navy would abduct Palestinians and take their
boat. So basically they decimated
their ability to grow or or catch food on top of extremely
limiting what food was allowed to enter Gaza.
So I mean that is starvation policies.
You went there in 2008. If that's correct, Tommy, how
you got there? Yeah, so I had spent eight
months in 2007 in the West Bank. I was ultimately deported and
banned from deported by the Israelis and banned from coming
back, they said for 10 years. But I believe it's probably a
lifetime ban. And at the same time, I had been
in contact with a Palestinian journalist from Rafa, southern
Gaza, and was helping with some editing.
And so I was very because of his writing, I was also very aware
of the horrific conditions in Gaza and had been trying to get
there even when I was in the West Bank.
But it's impossible. So after I was deported, I had
around that time, there was a movement that had started called
the Free Gaza Movement. And they're, they were the first
boat movement. And at the time it was, it was
important because as I recall, I don't believe Gaza was really in
the news back then. I don't think most people knew
what Gaza was, let alone where or, or the conditions there.
So this boat movement, they were their main focus was trying to
bring awareness to the siege on Gaza and to break the siege.
So they've they sailed five times from Cyprus and I was on
the third boat in November 2008. Many of the people that went
there, the boat I was on was a bunch of European members of
parliament. And on some of the previous
boats and maybe subsequent boats, they were activists like
I was at the time. So that was the only way we
could get to Gaza. So whereas the boats brought a
token amount of humanitarian aid, that wasn't the main focus.
The main focus was trying to bring political awareness to the
situation, but it was a means for activists to get there.
So most of the people came, stayed for a few days and left.
But I, I went another activist also went and stayed and I ended
up staying in total for three years.
But the first bout was a year and a half.
Then I left through AFA in mid 2010 and returned off and on in
2011 until 2013. So back then though, you know, I
was, I mentioned earlier, I was still naive enough to think if
only I could get this information into the Guardian or
to BBC or CBCI mean. That's how dumb I was.
Frankly, I didn't know because the Guardian did at that point
have some. Seemingly honest articles, but
now I know of course they only allow certain narratives and I
have no idea what the reporting is on Gaza right now because I I
can't stomach that. But yeah, November 2008 was when
I first arrived and about one month and 1/2 after that the the
Israeli 2008 nine war in Gaza began.
So tell me more about your experience there.
I mean, this is something that very few people actually know
anything about. Yeah.
So, well, I think it's important to note that prior to December
27th, which was the date that that war began, there were
Israeli bombings all the time. So people seem to think just as
when the the genocide began, this this sorry, in October 2023
when Israel began bombing Gaza, which became very quickly clear
that Israel was intending to commit genocide in Gaza.
Many people who weren't aware would think, well, Israel only
bombs as you made your comment, which I know was tongue in cheek
or sarcastic about defending itself.
Many people would think Israel's only bombing in defence in
response to Hamas or other resistance firing some sort of
rocket into Israel, but that's not the case.
Frankly, having lived there for three years, there were so many
times when nothing was happening and Israel would just bomb
suddenly and they would then say, oh, they bombed a
terrorist, quote unquote parasite.
But I remember 1 evening, I couldn't sleep, it was hot.
I was on a rooftop and I saw an F16 I think it was.
And then a number of F sixteens fly.
It would have been east. And then I just lay there
wondering, OK, what's going to happen next?
And then as I recall, they flew back and then next thing I knew
there was a bomb like 200 metres away.
So they bombed some site. This was when I was living in
central Gaza, India and Bala. So they bombed some site close
to the sea. I have no idea what they bombed.
Maybe it could have been a resistance fighter's home, I
don't know. Or it could have just been an
Israeli terror bombing, because those happened all the time.
And so that's one thing. And I have blog entries from
back then. I remember, gosh, I think I even
remember it's name. Saleh Okul, I think was his
name. Anyway, a man in northern Gaza
who was outside his home in the early evening collecting herbs
for the dinner. And the Israeli army bombed
outside his home during tearing him apart, depriving the family
of their breadwinner. And this is before December
27th, 2008, when the war officially began.
So that's one thing I think is important for people to know is
that Palestinians in Gaza were living under constant threat of
Israeli bombing and also under the Sonic boom campaign, which
sound when when they create the Sonic boom, it sounds like an A
bombing. So they were under constant
state of stress. And I remember even back then
the Gaza community health, I forget their name, but a health,
a mental health group. There was doctor Iaad Siraj
would talk back then 2008 about how 8090% of children had PTSD
from the constant stress of Israeli bombs and Sonic booms.
So there's that. But even when I so the the siege
again, I, I think it began after Hamas was elected in 2006.
So the siege on Gaza, siege blockade, basically full
enclosure of Gaza and prevention of entry of people, exit of
people and goods. Same that began around 2006 or
7. And even when I arrived in 2008,
it was dire. The the hospitals were always
reporting on a chronic deficit of essential medicines,
Emergency medicines. They were because Israel had
bombed the only power station in 2006 and it wasn't able to be
fully repaired. We were living under constant
blackouts, power and outages up to 20 hours a day when I lived
there. I mean, imagine living even 12
hours a day, but then it was 14, then it was 16, then I was 20
hours a day. Imagine living like that.
Just on a personal level, it becomes impossible.
If you're a parent, it's impossible to keep your home
clean because the way the water functioned or didn't function
there was that if there was water running, that would be
based on if there was power to pump the water.
And then it would be pumped up to tanks on the rooftop.
And if the water wasn't pumped, you would go for days without
water. So how do you clean your
children? How do you clean your house?
And they're very clean people. They, they, it contrary to what
Israeli Hasbaro would say, Palestinians are very clean.
And if you can't, you know, if you can't have access to water
and electricity, it makes everyday tasks to keep your home
hygienic and sanitary very difficult.
But then you consider the impact on hospitals.
So not not only were they devoid of essential medicines, but also
running on generators and doing the bare minimum.
So meaning you'd have to triage, triage which operations were
done and which weren't. Could somebody have kidney
dialysis? Could they not?
And then you have, as I already spoke of, the attacks on their
food sources, the fishers and the farmers, and the
overwhelming reliance on food aid just to survive.
And this food aid, whatever the intention's good or not.
The food aid wasn't very, let's say it wasn't like the
traditional Palestinian diet, which is Mediterranean diet.
So you have, as a result of people relying on, you know,
carbohydrates and without their abundant vegetables and
proteins, you have a rise in malnutrition, in anaemia and
stunted growth in children, in diabetes, all these food related
conditions that were for the most part preventable.
So there's all these different layers of hell that Israel
created way back then, and they only got worse.
That's 2008 I'm talking about. It only got worse because the
conditions didn't change. Yes, there were tunnels and I've
seen the tunnels. I went in and out of Gaza
through a tunnel at one point, and I went down journalistically
to see a tunnel and interviewed the tunnel workers.
So yes, I didn't see any of the big tunnels.
I have to say I saw tunnels bringing in tomatoes and through
which people that needed medical attention abroad and couldn't
exit via Rafa were coming and going or had studies abroad in
Egypt or further were coming and going.
But this is the only way people were able to survive were were
the goods that were bought in through the tunnels and some of
the agricultural goods that were able to be grown that weren't
destroyed by the Israelis. So these are just a few elements
of life in Gaza that I would think were widely unknown and
probably are still widely unknown until this current
genocide. What are the people like?
Aggressive, friendly. I mean it's it's mostly it's
mostly Muslim, but I'm guessing there were Christians too.
Yeah, there are Christians, more so in the West Bank, but there
are a belief, I think at least two churches.
I went to one church on Christmas, Christmas Eve, I
think it was in 2008. So there was a small community
of Christians and then otherwise predominantly Sunni Muslims.
You would think. You would think that given their
circumstances of not even from the siege onwards but decades of
being having been expelled from their homes.
Most of the I think it's 2/3 of the residents in Gaza are
refugees from greater Palestine. So they they weren't even native
inhabitants, most of them of Gaza.
But this is where they ended up after Israel carved out its
existence on the, the, the villages and, and blood of
Palestinians. You would expect, just based on
all of the horrible circumstances they've endured,
you would expect them to be aggressive and hateful.
But I, I honestly can say in my time there, I found them to be
and I'm very, very well travelled, some of the most
loving people I've ever met. And Palestinians in general,
Arab society in general, but it's especially Palestinian,
also Syrian. But my experiences in in
Palestine are that they're so hospitable they would literally
give you I, I once in Nablus commented not knowing what would
be the effect of my comment. I just commented on a wall
calendar. It was a very nice, I, I didn't
know the painting at the time, but it was like it was a, a
famous painting of a Palestinian elderly man, a refugee with a, a
bag on his back depicting their, their naqva.
And I just commented on it and next thing I knew, they took it
off the wall and gave it to me, them, you know, that kind of
thing. It's a minor thing.
Another instance from Nablus, because I was in the West Bank
as an activist. So we would go to the worst
places, worst places, meaning where they endured, Palestinians
endured the worst treatment from the Israeli army or the illegal
colonists. And so in one example, after
Nablus had been invaded by the Israeli army and many homes
occupied, shot up, if not destroyed, as they say in
Arabic, Makluba turned upside down, shot up, looted
everything. You know, just as you can
imagine an army doing to a house and that the inhabitants kept in
one room for several days, denied the basics of life, maybe
given food, but anyway, held in horrible conditions.
And and when I met this elderly grandmother, she was beaming and
she was so happy to see me and she was trying to give me
things. And it's just, it was so in
Congress to me because I was thinking like, she just been
through hell. She's older, she needed
medication, She wasn't given the medication.
She's been terrorised by the Israeli army and she's treating
me like the most honourable guests.
And it was just it, it was I think one of the pivotal, one of
the pivotal moments that people have when they visit Palestine
that you can't after those experiences go back to living a
normal life. Because I, I wasn't from a well
off family, but well, anybody compared to what Palestinians
are living. We have homes or roofs overhead,
we have relative safety, food, etcetera.
And so going from that life where as I said, I didn't have
any sort of exposure to politics or wasn't even certainly hadn't
experienced anything to do with war or harsh conditions.
And then I go there and it's, it's already like, and I say I,
but I think this again, anybody who spends time in Palestine has
the same experience really. You go there and you see the
horrible conditions Palestinians are subjected to and that and
yet you meet these really kind and loving people and humorous
and full of life. I mean, now look at Gaza.
You still see people in Gaza doing things like teaching
children to dance or making the best of their their situation.
They've got nowhere to live and they still can can make jokes
and, and find ways to express themselves and their express
their humanity. And you know, back to your, your
question, like it's not what I expected.
I expected. And if they had been hateful and
said, you know, get get out of here, you're from the country
that's bombing us or supporting the bombing of us, I wouldn't
have held it against them. But they they don't do that.
And to be also clear, I am aware of many Jews that have gone to
to Gaza and they've also been met with hospitality and they
haven't been, you know, told to get out, you're Jewish.
Nothing. And but that is a line that
probably the Israeli propagandists, well, not
probably, definitely. In fact, definitely.
I see trolls on, on acts constantly saying, Oh, well, if
you were in, in Gaza, Hamas would rape you, which is
absolute nonsense. We've seen from many of the
Israelis that had been held hostage and that were released
that we've seen them talking about how Hamas treated them
with great humanity and protected them as much as
possible. And I can just speak from my own
experiences in Gaza. I was never treated like, let's
see, let's say with disrespect. I was never approached as a, as
a woman and treated in any way other than as a sister or a
daughter. And that's the way it, it was in
my experience. And I I would say many people
had that experience. When you talk about Palestine,
what exactly are you talking about?
That's a hard question. I mean, there is historic
Palestine, which was the land of Muslims, Christians and Jews
before the Zionist project to occupy, to establish Israel, but
then to expand the Israeli project, the the, the settler
project in Palestine. So Palestine, Palestine is the
historic land that Palestinians were expelled from.
It's well documented that they lived there and that there's the
Zionist narrative is that, you know, they, they developed a
desert that was not blooming and they made it bloom.
They went to a land without a people and that's all nonsense.
So for me, Palestine is all that historic land.
It's always a case of which came first, the chicken or the egg.
You have to go back in history. You can't even if you want to
start at October 7th, which would be just extremely
intellectually dishonest to do so.
But even if you want to, the narrative about what happened
that day has been refuted greatly in terms of the the loss
of lives and who is behind the overwhelming death amount of
Israelis that were killed. There have been many journals
that have looked into that. There have been interviews with
Israelis who talked about the Israeli army themselves
attacking them. And you know, so if you if you
want to start from October 7th, the narratives that came out
around that have been disputed, including especially the 40
beheaded babies atrocious lie that the Israeli Hospira
attributed to Hamas. And it just flatly was not true.
And it's been proven to be a lie that originated from Zionist
propaganda. And unfortunately, tragically,
we've seen since then endless scenes of beheaded babies,
babies and children and and adults burned alive.
And as I said, the manifold means in which Israel has
slaughtered and tortured Palestinians.
So even if you want to start from October 7th, at this point,
it's not even if you want to be as dishonest and start from that
point, at this point we can see that the lies that were built
around October 7th were lies. And everything Israel has done
quote in response is not a response.
This is not a response if even. How could you possibly imagine
everything that Israel has done repeatedly bombing every single
Gaza hospital in Gaza, ensuring that wounded people can't get
medical care. Do you remember a month, two
months ago perhaps the media was aghast when it was reported that
Israel had gunned down 14, I believe it was paramedics.
Initially the Israeli propaganda said no, these were Hamas.
And then it turned out that, well, aside from the fact that
Israel has historically gunned down paramedics to ensure that
they can't reach the people that need their help.
And I can speak from personal experience travelling with
paramedics in their ambulances in the 2008, 2009 war.
But then there was footage from one of the murdered paramedics
phones and it clearly showed, contrary to what the Israeli
propagandists had said, it clearly showed armed, sorry,
marked, not armed, excuse me, marked the vehicles with their
lights on, approaching slowly the point where they were going
to try to aid wounded Palestinians.
And the Israeli version was something like unmarked vehicles
speeding at them and they fired in self defence, which is
nonsense. So that was just a couple of
months ago. But everything Israel has done
to Palestinians and Gaza has not been proportional to what they
claim was the events of October 7th.
So if you only start out October 7th, that's a wrong starting
point. You go decades back to the
creation of Israel, go a decade or two back before then start
looking at the different Israeli terrorist groups.
The I'm actually not going to remember all of them, Hagana or
Goon. And there's a third one I was
blank on. They were committing acts of
terrorism against the British and against the Palestinians.
And you look at some of the notable massacres that occurred
up to and during the creation of of Israel in 48.
And so those are the points at which you need to start.
And then you look at all the decades of violence against
Palestinians since then. And you know, some people, many
people often say, well, why don't Palestinians resist
nonviolently? First of all, under
international law, they have the right to resist with arms.
But put that aside. They did resist nonviolently.
They still do resist nonviolently.
They did all number of strikes they had in the West Bank, for
example, from around 2005, I think the village of Bilane,
which is near the city of Ramallah.
And it's a village that lost 60% of its land to what is known as
the Apartheid wall, cutting through their land.
And every Friday they were demonstrating nonviolently.
And they were, they were met with extreme violence by the
Israeli army. I I went there about 10 times I
think it was. And I saw for myself, because I
would always walk with it, the villagers at the front of the
demonstration and I saw how the violence began and it was always
from the Israeli side. Yeah, sure.
Later Palestinian youths would take slingshots and lob tiny
rocks against these heavily armed Israeli soldiers that were
firing live ammunition, high velocity tear gas canister and
also rubber coated metal bullets at the crowd.
And the crowd comprised not resistance but Arnhem civilians,
including children, including elderly.
So, and then if you remember some years ago in Gaza, they had
the Great March of Return, then this was supposed to be, it was
hoping to be a movement that would bring again more light to
the horrible conditions they were living in before October
7th, 2023, under siege, under Israeli wars every two or three
years, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2014, 2000, I forget the next war.
You know, every so many years Israel waged a war in Gaza,
destroying more critical infrastructure, making life all
the more hellish to live in. And yet when I lived there,
people demonstrated nonviolently and they were gunned down.
I have a lot of documentation of Israeli soldiers gunning down
unarmed youths that were protesting the siege and during
the Great March of Return. I'd have to look because I don't
remember the number of people that were maimed and and killed,
but it was a huge number of people.
There was 1 notable case, a young woman who was a nurse and
she was shot in the back, I believe by an Israeli sniper.
You know, like there's just so many instances of
disproportionate and it's not even reaction because they
always like to say they're reacting.
But the original egg was their violence against Palestinians,
to your question. You said the Zionist project,
Eva. Does Israel have a right to
exist? Does any country have a right to
exist? Sorry, but that's the that's one
of their token lines. I actually don't believe Israel
has a right to exist. It was built on the blood of
Palestinians. Their land was divided up by the
United Nations and given to the Zionist.
The, the original Zionist considered different locations
for their Zionist project, among which was Palestine.
They considered, I believe Egypt.
I believe they considered in Africa, in South America, which
is very strange because later it became, well, this is our land,
this is our Holy Land. God gave us this land.
God is a real estate agent, you know, and so they came to a land
that was clearly occupied with the original habit inhabitants.
And by the way, in 2012 I was in Lebanon and in one of the
refugee camps there, Palestinian refugee camps there, I met a
Jewish Palestinian whose parents had joined resistance against
the Zionist. And his parents were amongst
those that were expelled from historic Palestine by the
Zionist and they were Jewish. So, and this is not uncommon.
So it it's not a question of Jews, it's a question of this
colonial project in Palestine. And it's very well known that it
was initially a British colonial project, then it became an an
American project as well in the Middle East.
So what do you ever hear such and such country has a right to
exist applied anywhere else? It's such a ridiculous phrase,
but do Palestinians not have the right to exist?
You they've ethnically cleansed them, they're genociding them.
They've not only created Israel on Palestinian land, but they're
continually, continually expanding.
I mean, even when people used to talk about this two state
solution, which was absolutely ridiculous and not a just
solution, you look at, if you look at a map of the West Bank
and the areas that are supposed to be allotted to Palestinians,
they're not. I mean, you go to the West Bank
and you see it. To get from a village 5 minutes
drive away, you have to take such a roundabout way of getting
there because of all the Israeli military checkpoints.
For example, there was a village named Sada which would have been
5 minutes from Nablus, which is a key city in the north.
And because Israelis had built a checkpoint there, uh, there's
various checkpoints. There's the mechanical ones,
like the very industrial looking ones with the turnstiles, like
outside of Nablus, Hawada or outside of Elkwoods or
Jerusalem. This one happened to be a
checkpoint, made a roadblock checkpoint made of massive
concrete blocks cutting the road.
So the people in this village couldn't get to Nablus in 5
minutes. They had to take the circuitous
route, which meant there could have been any number of
checkpoints, because also you could have a flying checkpoint,
which is when one or two, sorry, two or more Israeli jeeps will
close off the road. And then they can just say this
is a closed military zone, you can't proceed.
And that's what they do all the time.
So what if you need medical care and you can't get it in your
village and you're trying to go to Annapolis?
Or what if you simply need to get there to work or go to
university, etcetera, etcetera, or go see your family?
You have to go this roundabout route and maybe reach Annapolis.
So this is one example, but there's so many examples of how
even within the area that's supposed to be for Palestinians
themselves, their movement is so restricted that people just have
no idea. And there's a, there's a, at
least at the time it was called Highway 443 that went from Tel
Aviv to Jerusalem going through the West Bank.
And that was a Jewish only highway.
And that was another means of dividing Palestinians that they
couldn't get from their their village from, I mean, one side
to the other side. So why is the question always,
does Israel have the right to exist?
Why isn't it? Don't Palestinians have the
right to exist? Particularly now we look at
Gaza. Don't they have the right to
exist to have food? Can't.
Don't they have the right to have medical care, clean water?
Why is it now we have this fake NGO, an Israeli American NGO aid
organisation that's been recently created?
Because Israel says, quote, Israel says Israel claims and
accuses Hamas of stealing food aid, which in fact, there's a
twist to that accusation. But let's just start with their
solution. Their solution is not to use.
And believe me, I'm no fan of the UNI see the UN as part of
the problem. But the UN does have UNRWA,
which is an agency that's been working for decades in in the
occupied West Bank in Gaza, providing education, healthcare,
food, not the best food in my opinion, but still food aid.
They're established there. They have the means of getting
the food that is urgently needed and the medical supplies and
water, et cetera, to those needed.
They had distributed well, they had distribution centres, but
Israel has bombed them so many times I don't know what exists
any longer. But instead of that, Israel says
because they claim Hamas is stealing food, they will no
longer send or allow UNRWA to distribute this food.
They've had Gaza under full blockade for I think it's three
months now. So no food is being entering,
maybe a trickle now and then. Their solution was to create
this fake NGO that would operate under the control of the Israeli
army. They would have Palestinians
walk long distances to come get aid.
And do you know what they did to them?
They opened fire on them. This is their crowd control.
There was too many people. They opened fire on them.
They threw grenades at them. This has been ongoing for, oh,
maybe two weeks now. I'll have to check the timeline,
but the twist to the story is their accusation of Hamas
stealing food. There are actually gangs now.
I forget the guy's name. I can get it for you after, but
they've been operating under Israeli control in Gaza, looting
food aid, under Israeli watch, under Israeli protection.
What is the long game? I mean, what?
What is the ultimate conclusion here?
Because Eva, it appears to be a forever war now.
Israel's long game is is to expel the Palestinians.
Well, then no, it's it that's that's assuming it was equal
grounds and Palestinians would have the capability of doing so,
which they don't. They don't have an army, they
don't have Air Force, they don't have tanks.
They don't have any of the military shit that Israel is
using to murder them. I mean, just back to I'm I'm not
making about myself. I'm just I have to go back to
2008 in the years onwards. Imagine 2008 nine, because
during that was the first war I've experienced.
So imagine you're not only being bombed by F sixteens, it's the
drones in the sky constantly that are capable not only of
surveillance, but massive bombings.
The tanks, the Apaches, the warship, the warships, and then
on a daily basis the remote controlled gun towers, the jeeps
patrolling the fence and the soldiers that get out and will
shoot at farmers. And this is something I
experienced because we would accompany the farmers.
So, and then what do you have from the Palestinian side?
You have resistance and I respect the resistance.
And I, I believe they have the right to resist.
And I would, I would say they are resisting heroically, but
they do not have the same equipment and armaments that
Israel has. There's no comparison.
So wipe each other out is no. I mean, you will, you will see
updates of Palestinian resistance setting a trap in
some place in Gaza and killing or maiming a certain number of
Israeli soldiers. But that's no comparison to what
Israel's doing to overwhelmingly the civilian population.
But to answer your question about the long game, I mean,
Israel's long game is occupying not only all of Palestine, but
as we see in Syria, you know, they've been occupying the
Syrian Golan for decades, parts of Lebanon as well.
Their long game is expansion Egypt, their long game is
expansion Greater Israel Project.
And they're talking openly about expelling the over 2,000,000
Palestinians living in Gaza. They've been wanting to do that
for decades. They're talking about doing it
now, about sending them in a humanitarian gesture to Libya,
to somewhere else. I know Palestinians in Gaza are
feeling desperate. Those I speak with, including
those who formerly said I'll never leave, they have to kill
me before they will force me from my house.
After 20 months of genocide, they could be forgiven for
saying, OK, I would like some safety now for my family.
But to me, it's not conceivable that that the majority of
Palestinians will want to leave Gaza, even though we see what
they're being put through. So I, I don't see how that that
so called solution from the Israeli American perspective can
be enacted because I think most Palestinians would resist it and
it's completely unjust. It's ethnic cleansing.
But that is, that is their their intent.
And then for Israel to occupy that land.
And you know, we've all heard Trump's comment about naked into
the what was his terminology, but basically turning it into
prime real estate, which is just absolutely disgusting.
And so every I don't I don't know, we, we hear these, we hear
in the news, you know, now there's a rift between Trump and
Netanyahu. Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe it's just another distraction.
Bottom line, is there everything that happens like now talk of a
ceasefire, it's always just prolonging the suffering because
the bombing doesn't stop, the starvation doesn't stop.
It could be stopped immediately where the order is given.
So any of this, these talks of solution, it's, it's always just
more time for Israel to continue slaughtering and starving
Palestinians. You mentioned Trump and you
mentioned. Sorry, go ahead.
You mentioned Trump and the American connection.
Do you think that Israel is effectively now just an agency
of the US? That's a question that is asked
quite often. Who's which?
Who's controlling whom? I think you can argue both ways,
yes. But I I suppose the the
undercurrent is, why is there this strong link between the
United States and Israel? It's their base in the, in, in
West Asia. It's they OK, they have client
states, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, but Israel's their military base.
And this is an area that the US does want to control.
They're still occupying eastern parts of Syria.
But when you listen to people talk about Israel's, the AIPAC,
the Israeli lobbies, control over people in Congress and, and
the president himself, and you know, virtually every
politician, Yeah, in, in, in the US, there's almost, there's very
few. Cynthia McKinney, I don't know
if you've had her on your show, but she'd be great to have on.
She was former congresswoman back.
And I don't remember. I'm not going to say the date
'cause I'll get it wrong, but she was a couple decades ago or
more ago. Sorry Cynthia, but she was one
of the first, if not the first I think to speak out about how the
Israeli lobby controlled Congress.
And as I recall, she said that when she was being sworn in,
they were telling her she had to take an oath of allegiance to
Israel and she refused to do so. And at that time it was not
common for people to speak out about that.
But I mean, how preposterous is that?
You're AUS politician, Congress person and you have to swear an
oath to a foreign country and if you don't then you're going to
be kicked out of Congress on some false pretext of anti
semitism or some trumped up charge.
So in that regard, the amount of money that is poured in through
the Israeli lobbies, AIPAC, the prime one, but various different
people and groups to control US politics from that perspective.
It it you know that that creates the perspective of Israel
controlling the US. But on the other hand, as I
said, the the US with a strong a real word from the US to Israel,
it has to stop. For example, besieged in Gaza
has to allow food in that could trucks would be allowed in
immediately if that word was given, but it's not given.
It's just always hand wringing. Oh, Trump is upset with
Netanyahu kind of thing to create the illusion of that
something will be done, but it realistically won't.
It is theatre. It's and it's absolutely, it's,
you know, theatre, but these are people's lives at hand.
And it just, I, I still can't wrap my head around it, even
even though I lived there and I, I'm aware of the atrocities.
Israel was capable and is capable and has been committing
with the support of US and Canada and most Western
governments. But it's still it's really hard
to wrap your head head around. But Eva comment that always
comes up in comment sections and in articles and in social
settings is But Israel is such a small country.
Look at all the the Islamic countries surrounding it and why
aren't they helping the poor Palestinians?
I mean, why aren't they helping? It's a legitimate question and
criticism. But they're bought off by the
US. Egypt is bought off by the US
and it is a shame because the Egyptian people, there's a lot
of solidarity with Palestinians amongst the Egyptian people, but
they're also by and large desperately poor.
So why, why hasn't there been a tipping point where there's an
actual uprising and, you know, millions of Egyptians flood out
of various Cairo and other cities towards Gaza?
I don't know, but probably being kept in poverty for so long is a
large part of it. Saudi Arabia is an extremely
corrupt regime. They would never help.
They instead of helping Palestinians, OK, they might,
they might token send a token amount of aid back in the day.
But any tangible help, only Yemen has been doing that.
Only Ansar Allah and the Yemeni people have been really in
solidarity with with Palestinians.
Syria was under Bashar al Assad. Syria was supportive of
Palestinians and Palestinian cause and resistance, but
otherwise and Hezbollah obviously.
But in terms of the, the Gulf states, they're corrupt states.
They're not going to help in any tangible way.
They, they don't want to. Well, I, I think any ethics,
I'm, I'm not talking about the people.
I can't talk about the people I don't know, but the the regimes
in the Gulf states, they won't help in any way and.
We also know, I mean this isn't even a secret now, that Israeli
government was basically funding Hamas through Qatar.
It was in, in the original. I don't know when that ceased.
But what I would like to say is there was a prior to that Hamas
existed as a Islamic charity before any Israeli involvement.
And there has been progression. It's, it's not, you know, back
in the day when there was funding, whenever that ceased,
it's for, it's, it's not, I think it's not honest to say
they're for Hamas is an Israeli controlled opposition because
that takes away the agency of Palestinians and the fact
they're every generation produces new resistance
fighters. And it's not because of Israeli
funding or propaganda. It's because they've, they've
grown up under the Israeli bombs and they, they also have grown
up listening to the stories of their grandparents talking about
their historic homes that they were expelled from.
And even, I mean, there's, there's many notable people.
There's even, I forget the Israeli, I'll have to find that
quote for you, a former Israeli politician and he's pretty
notable. I'm so sorry, I'm forgetting his
name. But he basically said if he'd
been Palestinian, he would have been a resistance fighter.
And it's just common sense too. Like, honestly, if you're in
this situation, you're going to resist.
Anybody would resist. I want to go back to what you
were saying a moment ago, though, about Israel being a
small nation surrounded by Muslim countries.
It is well known by this point. It was well known 5-8 years ago
that Israel was working with terrorists in Syria.
They were helping terrorists in Syria.
They were treating them in Israeli field hospitals.
You even have photos of Netanyahu meeting with a
terrorist in an Israeli field hospital, being treated there
and then funnelled back into Syria to continue fighting.
You have, there was at some point years ago ISIS apologised
to Israel for accidentally attacking.
I mean, and you have now ISIS, Al Qaeda controlling Syria and
are they attacking Israel? No.
They allow Israel attacks on their country.
Do they retaliate? No.
Did they prevent Israel from invading?
No. And they Jolani, who goes by
President Shara, he says they have a common enemy.
And this is a, the guy was al Qaeda, ISIS, He's not reformed
by any means. I mean, I'm sure we could talk
for a very long time about the atrocities being committed under
the Jolani regime since they came to power in December last
year against Syrian civilians, primarily minorities, primarily
Alawite, but not only also Sunnis, Christians, Shia, Syrian
civilians in general. But but this notion that Israel
is surrounded by nations that want to kill it is another one
of these narratives Israel has been pushing for decades to
justify what it does to Palestinians and to Lebanese.
How can I follow your work? Well, I used to have YouTube,
but it's been obliterated, so I, I no longer have a channel.
I actually, if you want to know the story behind that, it was
right after I did a long thread on X talking about how when
Israel says it's targeting medics because they're Hamas
quote unquote terrorists. I did a long thread saying,
actually, no, in 2009, I rode in their ambulances and they were
only carrying civilians, maimed and murdered civilians.
There were no weapons and ambulances I was with and medics
I knew came under fire. So I did this long thread and I
gave examples and linked to my YouTube and blog entries and the
next day the next day my YouTube channel was deleted.
I did try to have it reinstated but they said no and then I had
a SO. It's just coincidence.
I'm sure. And then I had a smaller one
that I forgot about. It was like back in the day in
Gaza, I'd used it and posted a few videos, a handful of videos,
maybe a dozen. And so I was like, OK, I'll I'll
build this up. And the only reason I want to
build it up to 500 was so I could use the community section
and redirect people to my odyssey, my rumble, my telegram,
my blog and that YouTube channel was deleted as well.
So anyway, back to where people can follow me.
I'm on Telegram reality theories, Eva K Bartlett.
I'm on XI Believe also Eva K Bartlett.
And I'm not on Facebook. I've also been removed from that
platform and my blog in Gaza, which is mainly used for
republishing interviews like this or articles I've written
and my sub stack Eva Cream Bartlett.
All right, Eva Bartlett, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you for joining me in the trenches.
Thanks so much for having me on.