1 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:11,620 Hello, I'm Charles Mallett with Auk column interview and today I 2 00:00:11,620 --> 00:00:14,820 have with me Shaz Khan, who has recently written the ultimate 3 00:00:14,820 --> 00:00:19,060 vaccine timeline. And my opener to Shaz is going 4 00:00:19,060 --> 00:00:23,660 to be to say, well, Shaz, we we live in an age of the 5 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:27,460 prerequisite for almost any sort of discussion, debate, question 6 00:00:27,460 --> 00:00:31,100 or answer is that the person need be an expert. 7 00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:34,400 Now, you're not an immunologist or a vaccinologist or an 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,800 epidemiologist or any of the above or below. 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,200 You are not, in this particular regard, considered an expert. 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,640 Why does that make you a suitable person to be looking 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,400 into a subject like this? Well, thank you so much for 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,120 having me, Charles. But first of all, I never 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,520 planned on looking into this subject, to be quite honest. 14 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,000 I mean, as you said, I'm no expert. 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,200 I don't work in the field of science or in medicine. 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,440 I've always been interested in science. 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,920 And through my work in marketing and communications for the last 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,880 20 years, it's it's come up often that we've used scientific 19 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,720 language to sell products because it sounds good. 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,400 But I basically got into this 10 years ago following my father's 21 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,760 death, which I believe was provoked by a flu jab. 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,360 Obviously, I'll never have any way of proving it, but it just 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,520 asked, it just got me asking questions. 24 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,000 And I knew nothing about vaccines at that point. 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,920 And I came from a pretty neutral standpoint where I believe what 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,760 I was told as well in school, which is vaccines save lives. 27 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,480 They saved us from smallpox and polio. 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,400 But in the last 10 years, I can say I've spent well over 10,000 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,600 hours looking into this subject. And I've been looking in 30 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,000 libraries, in the National Archives, not just on Google or 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,240 on the Internet. I really, there were a lot of 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,520 books that I read in the beginning. 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,160 I think the first one I read was Dissolving Illusions by Doctor 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Suzanne Humphries and Roman Bistrianic and I, I, to be quite 35 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,640 frank, there were a lot of things in there I really had 36 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,880 difficulty believing. And that's why I went to the 37 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,120 libraries, into the National Archives, because I just was a 38 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,760 bit astounded by the fact that we could have been lied to on 39 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,320 such a massive scale. So I never intended to write a 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,760 book. When I started research, it was 41 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,400 really just a personal project. But the more I came across 42 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,960 outrageous documents within the National Archives, the more I 43 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,920 said to myself, this has to be documented and has to be shared 44 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,960 with the public so that they can see what the document, I mean, 45 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,360 the government documents say, which are buried in the National 46 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:21,440 Archives. I mean, they're in the public 47 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,040 domain, so anyone can get access to them. 48 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,680 But I got access to documents through Freedom of Information 49 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,240 requests. So documents from the 70s and 50 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,720 the early 80s and I, I think they're often closed for 100 51 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,840 years. So we still have to ask for, for 52 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,360 more recent stuff. But I would say I'm, I'm 53 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,720 actually not an expert. I don't claim to be an expert, 54 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,720 but I have spent, as I said, well over 10,000 hours on this 55 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,600 issue. I don't have any skin in the 56 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,760 game. I'm not even a parent. 57 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,640 So this isn't even like a, you know, initially do I vaccinate 58 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:51,640 my, my kids or not? It really was just following 59 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:54,440 what happened to my father and then just being a geek about it 60 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,200 and being shocked and outraged by what I discovered. 61 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,680 Yeah. Well, I mean on the the way in 62 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,840 which you went about sourcing and going through all the 63 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,040 information that you refer to is something I definitely want to 64 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,240 come back to because I think that in itself is a fascinating 65 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,000 story. And now what what I would like 66 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,160 to go into, although obviously a challenging and emotional 67 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,640 subject, but I think the specifics around what it was 68 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:20,080 that you believe did lead up to your father's death and how it 69 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,920 was dealt with, I think are very crucial to your story and indeed 70 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:27,840 your further investigation. Would you mind just going over 71 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,960 what did happen and and how it was, as you say, with an open 72 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,840 mind that you started to consider what you did consider? 73 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,520 Of course. So, so I'm, I'm, I'm based here 74 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,640 in Switzerland, but my father is in the UK under the NHS system. 75 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,760 I to be quite honest, I was estranged from my father so I 76 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,160 hadn't spoken to him in a while, but I found out from a family 77 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,320 friend that he was in hospital and he was seriously ill. 78 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,800 So I rushed over to the UK to go and see him. 79 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,160 So I had no idea that he'd received a flu vaccine at this 80 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,560 point, I just knew that he'd been diagnosed with stage 4 lung 81 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,240 cancer, non-smoker. He was a pretty relatively 82 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:03,200 healthy guy, 70 years old and within 24 hours of being 83 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,840 admitted to hospital he lost the ability to speak and he lost the 84 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,520 ability to walk. So it was a very very quick 85 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,720 downslide and it was only after he passed away, which was 86 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,560 literally 4 weeks after I went to see him in hospital, which is 87 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,519 when he was admitted. So he died on the 4th of 88 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:23,800 February 2015. I found out from my stepmom that 89 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,480 in November he'd received a flu vaccination. 90 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:29,840 Now I know didn't know anything about vaccines, but in my 91 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,280 understanding you don't give vaccines to people who are sick. 92 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:34,680 So if you died of stage 4 lung cancer at the beginning of 93 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,640 February, chances are you would have been sick in November and 94 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,960 shouldn't have received a vaccine. 95 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,240 I didn't know exactly what brand he got so I just looked at all 96 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,520 the package inserts that I could find and I was quite horrified 97 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,640 to find out that he that it's acknowledged that there are new 98 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,560 logical reactions following the flu vaccine. 99 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,840 And what didn't add up with my dad and why I started asking 100 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,800 questions is when he was in hospital with stage 4 lung 101 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,320 cancer, he didn't have any respiratory issues. 102 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:02,880 He didn't have any breathing issues. 103 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,240 He only had neurological issues and inflammation in the brain, 104 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,720 which for me, again, again, I'm no expert, but for me, if 105 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,880 someone's got stage 4 lung cancer, they have trouble 106 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,560 breathing. I've I've seen another friend of 107 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,120 mine with a father who had a who was a chain smoker at stage 4 108 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,080 lung cancer and he had problems breathing. 109 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,360 But my dad had none of that. It was all neurological. 110 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,480 And when I did discover the package inserts themselves 111 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,440 declared that neurological side effects from vaccine, flu 112 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,320 vaccines are known and acknowledged, I hope was pretty 113 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,920 shocked. And obviously we know the NHSUK 114 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,760 system of you get what, 5-10 minutes with your, your GP if 115 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,640 you're lucky. So if you do go in there with a 116 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,440 cuff and that you say you're not feeling good and it's the season 117 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,520 of the flu, what are they going to do if you're over 65 is give 118 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,880 you the flu vaccine, no questions, no real delving into 119 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,720 what else is going on. And 5-10 minutes is really not 120 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,080 enough to have a, a consultation with your GP. 121 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,520 So that was his situation. And as I said, I have no proof. 122 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,080 We'll never have any proof that that did. 123 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,680 But since I have speak been speaking out about the flu 124 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,760 vaccine, I've been quite not interested. 125 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,720 It's quite interesting to notice that a lot of people have 126 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,840 stories around the flu vaccine, either getting super sick 127 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,720 afterwards or, you know, transmitting the flu to other 128 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,560 people. The flu vaccine I, I spoke a lot 129 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,960 to hairdressers because I believe that they have a lot of 130 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,920 gossip in the neighborhood. And believe me when you bring up 131 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,280 the question of flu vaccine, I've had people in the backroom 132 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:29,160 who just heard flu vaccine and stardly perked up and said and 133 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,720 had a story to share where they all said basically that they'd 134 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,840 never get enough flu vaccine because it made them more sick 135 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:37,520 than they had ever been. So anyhow, I digress. 136 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,560 But that was the reason why I basically started going into 137 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,280 looking into vaccines because as I said, I, I had no knowledge, 138 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,720 but I had a lot of friends who were having children at the 139 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,920 time. And I noticed that they were 140 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,640 sick a lot. And it just kind of was strange 141 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,680 because I don't remember being like when I was, I was a child 142 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,240 of the late 8, late 70s, sorry. And I don't remember kids being 143 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,600 that sick. And I had the measles, I had 144 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:01,520 chicken pox, I didn't have mumps. 145 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,280 But I remember those childhood diseases and I remember the the 146 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:07,240 parties you would get like get them all infected while stay 147 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,200 young. And I, it just didn't make sense 148 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,320 that nowadays kids have got all these strange allergies, chronic 149 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,160 diseases, ADHD, asthma. So, So yeah, that basically 150 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,680 started the journey 10 years ago. 151 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,160 And here I am with a book now that I've put it in a try to put 152 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,280 it in a, in a, in a documented form, because there are lots of 153 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,120 books on vaccines. They really are. 154 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,560 But I found that on the historical level, apart from 155 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,000 dissolving illusions, there weren't that many that really 156 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,600 delved into the history of it. And from a perspective of what 157 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,360 we found in government archives and also catalogues, like I had 158 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,440 no idea that back in the early 20th century, we had vaccines 159 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,080 against acne, against pneumonia already. 160 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,880 We did have some flu vaccines against influenza, but they were 161 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,520 bacterial based because we still didn't, didn't have the 162 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,320 understanding of viral disease at that point. 163 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,880 And I, I was quite shocked. I was really naive. 164 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,720 I was very naive when I started my journey. 165 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,120 So, but but yeah, so that obviously this personal story, 166 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,760 like for many others, is what drove me to start researching 167 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,160 more. Yeah, I mean, you know, 168 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,120 obviously awful that those were the circumstances that did cause 169 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,560 you to start looking that way in the 1st place. 170 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,720 That's the conclusion you arrived at. 171 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,920 As you say, not only will you never be able to prove it, but I 172 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,320 sincerely doubt that anybody on the other side of the fence 173 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,360 would try to do anything that would suggest that you were 174 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,800 right. As in any of the any of the 175 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,840 medics, any of the pharmaceutical companies. 176 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,640 It is of course well documented that hospitals do prescribe or 177 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,520 incorrectly prescribe medications, that there are 178 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,760 awful lot of things that go wrong in hospitals. 179 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,560 Were there other things that you looked at in addition to the to 180 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:54,600 the flu vaccine or sort of alongside it or was it in a way 181 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,600 the sort of the blindingly obvious stand out thing that had 182 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,040 happened? Well, at the time, as I said, I 183 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,400 didn't know he, he'd received the flu vaccine when he was in 184 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,400 hospital. So my interest in health in 185 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:11,400 general did start in 2009. So before his passing and I was 186 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,360 very much learning about nutrition and understanding how 187 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,440 much nutrition can help our, our health issues, help my health 188 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,280 issues. So when he was in hospital, I 189 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,600 didn't know about cancers. Like try to avoid giving him 190 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,080 sugar. Like, I mean, the NHS system 191 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,680 again, very good people trying to do the best they can with a 192 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:31,160 broken system. But he was in the cancer ward 193 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,840 where basically there was there was people with jaundice and 194 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,360 people incredibly sick in his ward. 195 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,520 And they were passing out white bread sandwiches with ham and 196 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,520 cheese and white tea and coffee. Like the worst things you can 197 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,480 possibly serve people who were trying to get better and heal. 198 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,560 So at the time, my brother and I, who were both quite, quite 199 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,000 annoying for the doctors, I think, as we put like signs on 200 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000 my, my, my dad's bed, like, you know, no sugar, no white sugar, 201 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,120 no white flour, try to avoid any inflammatory foods, etcetera. 202 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,640 And doctor basically kind of made us out to look like we're 203 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,440 crazy. But he did actually get a little 204 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,960 bit better at one point to where they almost proposed 205 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,080 chemotherapy, but then they kind of backtracked and, and said 206 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,360 they weren't going to offer him anything but just Hospice care. 207 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,000 So as I didn't know during the whole time he was in hospital. 208 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,200 I really learned, I think at the funeral when my when we were 209 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,600 sitting around the table with my stepmom and my half sister and 210 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,680 we were trying to understand what had happened and how he'd 211 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,760 gone down so quickly. And then my stepmom said, yeah, 212 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,280 I don't know why he got that flu jab. 213 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,520 He never gets the flu jab. I don't know why he got that flu 214 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:31,760 jab. And I was just like, what? 215 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,880 Because my dad's, I mean, my dad was Indian, was one of those who 216 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,480 never went to the doctor. He was quite a stubborn man and, 217 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,600 and had old, you know, grandma, also a grandma. 218 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,200 What's the word formulas for when he did get sick? 219 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,240 So he really did barely go to the doctor. 220 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,120 And it was very surprising for his, his wife and for me that he 221 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,000 would go and get a flu jet. But there you go. 222 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,760 That's that's what happens when you only have 5-10 minutes and 223 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,040 that's all the doctor offers you and you're looking for help. 224 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,520 Yeah, no, exactly. And I mean, of course, in the 225 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,720 anecdotal, but the coincidence of people who have lived long 226 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,960 healthy lives who have also said that they've never had any 227 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,000 interaction with the medical establishment is one that really 228 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,280 can't be ignored. However, it's so difficult to 229 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,880 explain that, especially to a health service, as you say, who 230 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:23,960 feeds apparently sort of on loop exactly the things you describe, 231 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,400 you know, white bread and and sugar. 232 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,680 I mean, the, the idea that the National Health Service really 233 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:31,520 has anything to do with health in the genuine sense is, is, is, 234 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,600 I would say, totally inaccurate. Now you've talked about your 235 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:41,000 book, what sets it apart? And I think especially in the 236 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,960 last five years, the subject of vaccination has become an 237 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,120 incredibly hot, divisive and very sensitive topic. 238 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,360 But to go back to where we perceive it all started, where, 239 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,560 where do you go back to? And, and I mean sort of first of 240 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,240 all in the medical sense, but then of course all importantly 241 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,000 in the in the commercial sense. And are those two different 242 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,680 things? That's an interesting question 243 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,640 because the commercial aspect I didn't realize already started 244 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,160 the end of the 19th century. We had a lot of vaccines on the 245 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,440 market. And back in the days, there were 246 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,200 absolutely no regulations. There was absolutely no, you 247 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,240 know, kind of licensing that you needed even to put a product on 248 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,720 the market. So I believe in 1910 already, I 249 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,040 mean, in the US they already had that, that Biologics Act that 250 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,360 came into place, 19-O2 as a result actually of injury 251 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,320 following vaccine campaigns. But it still wasn't a sure thing 252 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,480 In the UK. I'm not it was harder to find 253 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,360 actual legislation on how they were controlling the quality and 254 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,120 the purity of products they put on the market, but they were 255 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,240 products on the market basically. 256 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,560 So the commercial aspect has basically started already since 257 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,920 beginning of the beginning end of 19th, beginning of the 20th 258 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,760 century, definitely was accelerated in the mid 20th 259 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,000 century with I would say biotech industries with the fact that we 260 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,640 could be much more sophisticated than the development of 261 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,920 vaccines. And of course, as we all know in 262 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,040 the US, what was a huge factor for them was the 1986 Childhood 263 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,880 Vaccine Injury Compensation Act, which essentially allowed 264 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,560 vaccines to be brought to market and the manufacturers had no 265 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,680 liability. So as before, the financial 266 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:25,000 incentives were pretty low because there wasn't much market 267 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,720 for profit. And then what profit they were 268 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,720 making was getting eaten up by by lawsuits of people who were 269 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,080 filing, filing damages because there were a lot of damages, 270 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,920 especially after the DTP vaccine. 271 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,440 It was the one that had the highest insurance because it was 272 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,080 the most reported to have neurological damage and serious 273 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,800 neurological damage where they were paying out millions. 274 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,120 So after this 1986 act, even though in Europe we didn't have 275 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,360 the same legislation, it seemed to influence how manufacturers 276 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,400 in Europe were were also given the cycle liability. 277 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,920 I mean, in in Switzerland it was covered under the epidemics law. 278 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,400 So any vaccine that came out is automatically kind of covered on 279 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,400 the epidemics law and automatically there is no 280 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,240 liability by the manufacturer unless you can prove that the 281 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,680 product is defective or that there was an intent to create a 282 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,360 dangerous product, which anybody will know is incredibly hard to 283 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,360 prove. I mean, you need discovery in 284 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,520 the 1st place to be able to go through all the documents from 285 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,720 the Pharmaceutical industry. And that's not really done 286 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,480 anymore, especially since this 1986 act. 287 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,480 But the commercial aspect has has is over 100 years old. 288 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,280 And I would just say that it accelerated, I would say, in the 289 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,760 mid 20th century with the polio vaccine, which was probably the 290 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,200 first that we had such a media hype around. 291 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,000 And that kind of, I would say, how do you say instilled this 292 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,760 idea that vaccines save us, save us from disease, save us from 293 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,680 these infections? And it was so mediatized. 294 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,520 And like worldwide, everyone who knew who Silk was, it's the 295 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,600 first time that anyone really know a scientist. 296 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,440 You know, I don't think there's any other scientist who said so 297 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,720 much, maybe Einstein. But then here in Switzerland, he 298 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,160 was half Swiss. Anyway, I digress, sorry, but I 299 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,600 would believe that it's definitely the mid of the mid, 300 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,000 yeah, mid 20th century. Then with these liabilities that 301 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,800 were given well liability free, sorry, that was given to the 302 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,480 Pharmaceutical industry and then biotech, biotech industry when 303 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,400 it came into the 70's, the 80s, that allowed a huge amount of 304 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,400 innovation to be created around vaccines based on genetic 305 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,280 engineering. Because now we were able to go 306 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,360 and tinkle with the actual genetic code of these viruses 307 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,680 and the bacteria and create genetically modified organisms. 308 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,560 And then the first hepatitis B which was based on a genetically 309 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,920 modified Organism and came out in 1986. 310 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,560 And that basically just like you know, they are patents, the 311 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,600 amount of money they can make that changed everything. 312 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,560 The pharmaceutical for the Pharmaceutical industry who are 313 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,320 making vaccines, that was a lot more profit to be made. 314 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,840 And here today's is where kind of where we stand, where we're 315 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,240 still in that. And it's obviously been 316 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,720 accelerated with this whole mRNA technology which they they say 317 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,920 they want to now use that for the flu vaccine. 318 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,680 They're looking into it for other diseases. 319 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,800 I've even seen an mRNA acne vaccine in progress through 320 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,880 Sanofi. So this allows them to make more 321 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,760 money with the patents, with the, you know, the exchange of 322 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,040 intellectual, intellectual light, intellectual property. 323 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,760 Sorry. And and yeah, that's where we're 324 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,880 at at the moment. So if we don't kind of like step 325 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,560 back and make sure that the authorities actually recognize 326 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,680 the injuries already, which is one of the big problems we're 327 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,160 having here, we're going to move forward to this, this absolute, 328 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:47,040 I would say, explosion of genetic products that are sold 329 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,080 as, you know, vaccines, but they're not vaccines by how we 330 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,880 understand them because they change definitions. 331 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,760 And that's something I've also seen in the research, which has 332 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,640 been very instrumental, is the changing definitions of diseases 333 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,440 of, of names, the changing of definition of immunity. 334 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,599 All these influence how we perceive this market of vaccines 335 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,720 and in the, you know, the protection against infectious 336 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,800 disease, which is ultimately what it's supposed to be about. 337 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,040 Yeah, well, that's exactly, I mean, there's so many, so many 338 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,880 things to to pull out of that your response just there. 339 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,680 But I think the, the one that we should go into is the 340 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,800 terminology. What what was the, you know, 341 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,560 what was the vaccination for in the 1st place? 342 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,640 And of course, the, the approved sort of narrative version is, is 343 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,680 Edward Jenner with Kyle Box and, and this sort of suggestion that 344 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,320 illness could be transmitted from 1:00 being to another, 345 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,400 which is something, again, that was a novel concept. 346 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,680 And there's still huge controversy surrounding that 347 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,600 very issue today. But, but now we are in an era 348 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,560 where it seems that there are vaccines for absolutely 349 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,040 everything. And, and you know, you've just 350 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,680 referred to an acne vaccine. I don't know if anyone's ever 351 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,920 suggested that's transmissible from person to person, But you 352 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,960 know, we go back to this thing of what, what, what actually is 353 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,760 it and what is vaccination? And of course then the other 354 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,200 thing that the, the delivery method, I mean, interesting when 355 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,120 you talk about the National Health Service and what they 356 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,200 feed to people and this sort of this step away from nature. 357 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,360 Of course, in nature, anything that penetrates or punctures the 358 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:23,000 skin is doing harm. You know, whether it be a sea 359 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,560 urchin or a porcupine or a thorn, they're trying to do 360 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,040 harm. And yet we've accepted that we 361 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,920 should receive something that's meant to be beneficial in the 362 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,200 same method. I mean, that might be something 363 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,920 sort of outside where you've looked, but it is just 364 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,040 interesting to note that that is how we actually receive until 365 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,920 now. I know there are ways in which 366 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,280 this is going to change, but but let's just go back to the sort 367 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,480 of, you know, the Jenna period and the whole idea, you know, 368 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,040 vaccination and or inoculation. I mean, what actually is it? 369 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,480 What's it meant to be? Well, it's interesting because 370 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,320 in many ways it kind of resembles homeopathy and people 371 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,480 might like their ears perk up when I say that. 372 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,440 But there was there was also a homeoprophylaxis, which was 373 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,560 understood as you're giving the information of the disease in a 374 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,680 controlled manner in a tiny dose to inform the body in a 375 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,920 controlled manner in a small dose so that they can build up 376 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,720 an immunity when they're next exposed to it. 377 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,600 So I mean, that's the concept of vaccines basically as as we 378 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,480 understand it, but that's also kind of the concept of 379 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,400 homeopathy, homeoprophylaxis at least. 380 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,840 But obviously people will laugh and say, well, there's nothing 381 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,040 in homeopathy, you can't measure anything, etcetera, because the 382 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,880 information is so small anyway, but that we can discuss about 383 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,320 how limited sciences by what they can and cannot measure. 384 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,440 But vaccination the day of Jenner was, was obviously not in 385 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,640 an injection because they didn't even have syringes back then. 386 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,680 It was, you know, it was a scrape, A scrape into to the to 387 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,520 the arm usually. So you scrape an open wound and 388 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,400 you you kind of put the pus in. And nobody really knows what was 389 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,400 used as vaccines in the early days. 390 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,000 Even even scholars who have spent like their whole 391 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,320 professional career trying to understand exactly what was 392 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,720 used, they don't know. So we think it's cowpox. 393 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,360 It's also horse grease. So you can imagine how unsafe it 394 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,880 was and, and how unsanitary because back in those days, we 395 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,600 obviously didn't have sanitation, we didn't have 396 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 disinfectant, we didn't have antibiotics, a lot of things we 397 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,480 didn't have that people seem to forget back in the days 398 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,840 vaccination came to life. It was a dangerous, risky 399 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,480 procedure in itself. And yet still it was mandated 400 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,280 and we still didn't understand how it worked. 401 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,240 So, so Fast forward to pastor, for instance, it was the next 402 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,680 big, let's say vaccinologist, shall we say, who developed the 403 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,240 rabies vaccine famously. I mean, the whole Pasta 404 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,360 Institute came about because of rabies vaccination. 405 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,320 It was basically a place to go get a rabies vaccine. 406 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,720 That's how it started. Obviously they had chicken 407 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,560 cholera vaccine. They also developed anthrax 408 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,360 vaccines, but they weren't very much used. 409 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,440 And those were primarily for animals. 410 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,640 And then we had the toxide vaccines that came along and it 411 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,680 wasn't until about the 1940s, nineteen 50s that we started 412 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,240 doing the systematic kind of mass producing plastic syringe 413 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,160 based vaccination campaigns. So it was a jet injector, which 414 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,160 was much cheaper and was easier as well to do the typical 415 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,520 vaccine campaigns in Africa where you just want to, you 416 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,920 know, jab them like they're, they're cattle basically. 417 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,000 And it's interesting that nowadays when you look at the 418 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,280 literature, they're really trying to focus on oral 419 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,160 vaccinations like rotaviruses, oral typhoid at one point was 420 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:26,400 oral, if I'm not mistaken, and use the Makosal immunity because 421 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,240 they realize that injecting into a muscle is not actually putting 422 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,160 the viral information where it needs to go, where you can build 423 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,400 up an immunity, which is usually the mucosal lining of of your, 424 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,640 your intestines, your stomach, your respiratory system. 425 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,120 So they're looking more into mucosal vaccines. 426 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,200 And it's interesting about mRNA because mRNA was was looked 427 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,320 initially as hopeful solution for, for cancer patients, which 428 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,960 admittedly cancer patients are already sick. 429 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,680 Some of them have no other options. 430 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,280 So when you're talking about an mRNA vaccine or product 431 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,480 inoculation for a for a potentially terminal disease, I 432 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,800 think they should be doing the research and I think it's great 433 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,640 that they were were using that. But then to flip it and say 434 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,880 we're going to use it for infectious diseases in healthy 435 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,960 people. Knowing that the first human 436 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,480 clinical trial for an infectious disease using MNRMRNA technology 437 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,760 was in 2014 by Cure VAC in Germany, only on 101 people. 438 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,680 And the results at the end of 2017 weren't even that favorable 439 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,400 to three years later or four years later. 440 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,200 To go and put that en masse on people, including children and 441 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,560 pregnant women is just crazy. But but yeah, I mean, we have 442 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,720 different types of vaccines. We have oral vaccines. 443 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Now they're talking about the needle free vaccines where it's 444 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,800 like a patch animals, they get sprayed, they have aerosol 445 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,360 vaccines because obviously it's not always so practical to 446 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,200 inject every single one of them. So you can spray a vaccine into 447 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,800 the air and then through the respiratory system, the animals 448 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,400 will will will absorb it. I mean in France, in Europe, 449 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,160 sorry, I'm not sure about in the UK if it's past as well. 450 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,760 But there's the first self amplifying mRNA vaccine which 451 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,040 has been permitted called Kostyov, which is really 452 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,120 concerning because the mRNA is designed to self amplify in the 453 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,520 body. So you don't actually know when 454 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,720 is when is there, is there an off switch? 455 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,600 Does it stop creating those toxic proteins? 456 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,240 Then your antibodies are supposed to develop a response 457 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,160 against. So that's, it's quite 458 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,360 concerning. But the technology itself and I 459 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,880 would say the philosophy itself of vaccination is, is, you know, 460 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,640 it makes sense. But where we've gone with it, 461 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,760 we've turned it into this massive market. 462 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,000 We don't look at health anymore as an outcome. 463 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,120 We just look at these surrogate markers, which are these 464 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,960 antibody levels in the blood or sometimes your T cell levels. 465 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,920 But we don't really have better health as a result in my 466 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,560 opinion. And, and I can see this when I 467 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,400 look at kids around me who are vaccinated. 468 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160 I think that's the thing that that is what I'd like to just go 469 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,240 back into because a lot of people will be familiar with the 470 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,760 graphs that show the decline in smallpox. 471 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,400 And that those are always presented by people who are 472 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,960 trying to demonstrate the vaccination against smallpox 473 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,280 worked. And those that are looking at it 474 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,760 perhaps in a different way would say, yeah. 475 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,480 But if you look at where the vaccine came in, the decline in 476 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,560 smallpox incidences, and I do caveat this with of course, that 477 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,400 all statistics can be manipulated any which way, but 478 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,920 nonetheless, there are, it's very easy to demonstrate with a 479 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,000 graph depending on where you start it, that yes, the small 480 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,880 smallpox vaccine absolutely did away with smallpox. 481 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,720 Or the smallpox vaccine came in at a time where changes to 482 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,320 hygiene, sanitation, nutrition, you know, all sorts of other 483 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,160 factors came in and made it look like the vaccine may have played 484 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,360 a part or indeed made it look like the vaccine made absolutely 485 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,960 no difference or indeed created harm when none had previous 486 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:52,360 previously existed. Where do you sort of fall on on 487 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,160 that particular issue? Well, this is interesting 488 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,880 because there were lots of scientific experts back in the 489 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,160 days already who were highlight highlighting the issues with 490 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,480 smallpox vaccination and the manipulation of statistics, 491 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,280 especially in the UK. By, I mean, again, definitions 492 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,920 are very important here because you can usually the most 493 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,240 reliable statistics are mortality statistics. 494 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,240 But still it depends on the definition of certain diseases. 495 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,200 I mean, if you change the definition of disease, then 496 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,480 that's going to affect your statistics. 497 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,720 And I've noticed that's kind of like a playbook thing that is 498 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,480 happening a lot, especially with measles and polio. 499 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,800 Yeah, smallpox vaccination was already highlighted as being an 500 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,000 issue with this, how the statistics were held, the fact 501 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,040 that if they knew someone, because it was smallpox, you 502 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,960 could tell if someone had ever received a vaccine because they 503 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,600 usually had a scar. So they would be more inclined 504 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,360 to diagnose something that looked like smallpox. 505 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,440 But because the person had a scar to prove that they had 506 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,560 received inoculation against smallpox, they'd call it 507 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,120 something else. So there was a lot of that. 508 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,600 And in the book that I have put in about 50 years worth of 509 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,560 eminent scientists and doctors who who highlight these issues 510 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,760 with this, the way statistics were held, Alfred Wallace is one 511 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,320 of the main ones who spoke out publicly and then who was 512 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,240 ridiculed. That's the same playbook as well 513 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,240 that we see today. Anybody who does speak out 514 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,160 against the orthodoxy is ridiculed. 515 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,040 They discredit it and basically try to ignore all their previous 516 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,000 accomplishments scientifically. There were many, many. 517 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,680 I mean, Charles Creighton is another example, who was asked 518 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,640 to write the entry of the British Encyclopedia at the end 519 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,800 of the 19th century. And when he investigated and did 520 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,400 a deep dive, he was again shocked to discover there was a 521 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,520 lot of manipulation, a lot of also financial interest because 522 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,120 vaccinators were making money for every injection that they, 523 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,840 they gave. And he, he wrote that in that 524 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,680 the, in the British Encyclopedia. 525 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,240 I mean, they, they changed that entry a few years later, but and 526 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,960 he was discredited as well, despite being a very eminent 527 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,560 epidemiologist. So you see this already like for 528 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,120 100 years ago. So it's really history repeats 529 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,800 itself. So until we break the cycle of 530 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,400 this repeating itself as we're going to continue. 531 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,600 Because if you think in the 1800s and then scientists 532 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,920 already weren't being listened to and we're already 533 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,840 highlighting issues, problems with the smallpox vaccination 534 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,920 and say it wasn't a smallpox vaccine that reduced smallpox. 535 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,440 I mean, The Who says it was eradicated in the end of the 536 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,360 1970s. That would be after like over 537 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,440 100 years of use. How practical and useful is 538 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,120 this? Small is this vaccine that takes 539 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,840 over 100 years of several doses? Because it wasn't just one or 540 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,640 two doses. It was, I mean, people there had 541 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,000 received up to 789 doses in a lifetime. 542 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,120 And every time there was an epidemic, they said that you 543 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,160 have to get revaccinated. You have to get revaccinated. 544 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,760 How useful is a vaccine if it takes that long to get rid of 545 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,560 the disease? And then you're not taking into 546 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,800 consideration the fact, yeah, we had better sanitation. 547 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,640 Yeah, we had antibiotics. Yeah, we had better, better 548 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,800 living conditions and working conditions. 549 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,360 And there was there was something else with the smallpox 550 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:54,160 vaccine was interesting. It's already in the end of the 551 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,360 19th century, the symptoms of variola. 552 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,240 There was variola minor and variola major. 553 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,040 And variola major was the one that had a high mortality rate 554 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,280 up to 30%. And then variola minor, which is 555 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,920 the one that was already predominant in the 19th century 556 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,560 and beginning of the 20th had a lower mortality rate. 557 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,160 And it was called Alastrum, which I believe was the 558 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,800 Portuguese named it that. So already that time smallpox 559 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,400 was way less serious, but it was unfortunately was, it could be 560 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,680 defigoring. It could for especially a woman, 561 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,320 you'd leave pox scars. So yeah, and it was 562 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,720 inconvenient. And yeah, there was always a 563 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,600 risk for children, but it wasn't the same deadly disease. 564 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,960 It was, it was like a century before that because of, you 565 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,720 know, various factors. Also, as I said, working 566 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,200 conditions were better. Sanitation was getting better. 567 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,600 So all that had its influence as well. 568 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,320 And, and often I would say vaccines take credit for, or 569 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,240 they try to take credit for other changes, notably the 570 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,640 introduction of antibiotics or the introduction of certain 571 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,480 sanitary practices. And I remind anybody listening 572 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,800 here in Switzerland, our public health office was called the 573 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,440 Office of Public Hygiene up until 1975, and then it changed 574 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,200 its name to the Office of Public Health. 575 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,920 And I think that was actually quite telling, that change. 576 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,920 It's very telling and and this strikes to the heart of I think 577 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,640 so much of the environment surrounding this nowadays, which 578 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,200 is that people are by and large utterly unaware of what you're 579 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,960 describing. That the history, even going 580 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,800 back a couple of decades, it's people have just been slowly but 581 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,240 steadily brainwashed by the incredible media campaigns that 582 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,120 get pumped out surrounding all of these sort of vaccination 583 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,840 initiatives. And, and in actual fact, you 584 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,840 know, what I'd just like to go back to is, is the in the UK, 585 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:48,400 the Vaccination Act of 1853, which mandated the smallpox 586 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,960 vaccine on, on all infants. You know, I think that's, there 587 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,960 are things like that that are completely forgotten. 588 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,200 And when you talk about breaking the cycle and we see now, of 589 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,640 course, that with the commercial interests since, say, the 590 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,320 beginning of the 20th century, which you describe alongside 591 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,560 that, of course, you know, a responsible government says, oh, 592 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,840 no, don't worry, it's fine, we'll regulate it. 593 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,040 And and again, OK, well, how will you do that? 594 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,120 Well, we'll, we'll set up an agency that's funded by the 595 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,720 manufacturers of the products and then see what they say. 596 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,800 So, you know, here in the UK, we have the Medicines and 597 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,520 healthcare Regulatory agency. I've missed out the medical 598 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,280 devices, but the MHRA and I mean, but by any description, I 599 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,520 mean that that is corrupt. I mean the, the, the way in 600 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,360 which it's done is absolutely corrupt. 601 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,200 There's no possible way that they can give an objective view 602 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,880 on it. And with that in mind, and also 603 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,360 the the process of sort of so-called emergency 604 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,400 authorizations and whatnot, how do you envisage a way in which 605 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:59,800 the cycle can be broken either in so far as mass vaccination 606 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,000 campaigns are sort of stopped or that people just have a better 607 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,680 idea of what's going on? I think it's going to be bit of 608 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,800 both and I think obviously during COVID we saw that because 609 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,640 as you said in 1853 when they they want to mandate the 610 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,480 smallpox, they did mandate the smallpox vaccine on on I believe 611 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,280 it was they had to be in the first year of life vaccinated. 612 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,240 That's what triggered the anti vaccine movement back in the 613 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,760 days. That's what tried all these 614 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,440 these groups, these parents, these scientists who got 615 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,160 together and said, hey, we're not having that. 616 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,200 And they managed to, I mean, it took a while, but they didn't 617 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,720 manage to get it revoked and repealed. 618 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,840 At least have conscientious objection and force the 619 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,680 government under the the guise of the royal Commission to do an 620 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,560 investigation into the injuries following and and deaths 621 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,000 following the smallpox vaccine. So it, the fact that they pushed 622 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,040 the public into a, in a, in a, in a, in a between a rock and a 623 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040 hard place is what actually encourage people to start 624 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,680 speaking out and informing other people. 625 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,320 And the same thing with kind of COVID like I have here in 626 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,280 Switzerland. I'm, I'm working with a, a group 627 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,800 of medical professionals who before COVID never questioned 628 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,320 any vaccines. And because of what they did 629 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,160 with COVID pushing, we never had mandates here in Switzerland, 630 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,320 but there was definitely coercion. 631 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,960 Because of that, they now question the whole schedule and 632 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,680 they question the safety of all of them because of what the 633 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,200 government did with COVID. So it really kind of backfired, 634 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,880 I would say, by them trying to push this vaccine. 635 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,960 And they did. I mean, they were successful on 636 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,120 getting on to billions of people. 637 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,280 They have created. They've eroded trust in public 638 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,800 institutions in a major way. So that's, that's already, I 639 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,960 would say something encouraging in the sense that people now are 640 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,840 asking questions and that's going to maybe hopefully avoid 641 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,600 the situation ever happening again next time there's a 642 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,720 pandemic and the health institutions have less trust. 643 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,440 I mean, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the US with 644 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,040 Kennedy, what he's trying to do, what the influence on Europe is 645 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,600 going to, because at the moment it's just Kennedy's a crazy anti 646 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,240 vaxxer. Anything he does in the US 647 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,880 doesn't isn't taken seriously. To be quite honest, the 648 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,040 perception I see here in Switzerland and yeah, people in 649 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:08,960 people. I mean, in the UK there are no 650 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,080 vaccines which are obligatory. And the same in Switzerland. 651 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,200 In the States, they have a different it is mandated for 652 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,120 school attendance. But in the UK and in 653 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,680 Switzerland, consumers also now have a choice. 654 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,000 It's like if we don't want to take a product, we have a choice 655 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,320 to say no. And then if enough of us stand 656 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,840 up, they can't push us because what, are they going to fill up 657 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,000 their jails with all of us? I mean, they can't do that. 658 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,200 They can try to fine us, which is what they did, I believe, in 659 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,760 Austria, but they had to, they had to again, stand down with 660 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,640 the fines because it didn't, it didn't pass. 661 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,640 There were way too many people who were revolting against it 662 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,320 and people who did get fines, which is simply immediately 663 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,440 contesting them. I mean, we got fines here in 664 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,480 Switzerland if you're walking around without a mask, but no 665 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,160 one got fined if you didn't get a vaccine. 666 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,480 Like I think in Austria was even up to €500. 667 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,440 So it's ridiculous. But it didn't last long. 668 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,000 They tried. They really are trying in any 669 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,960 way possible to coerce people into this. 670 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,840 But by coercing, they've done more damage because now there's 671 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,240 way more trust issues within the medical establishment. 672 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,080 I can tell you there are lots of doctors I know who will not 673 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,719 touch another vaccine for themselves, for their family, or 674 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,480 even for their patients. I mean, they have to be very 675 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,840 careful because here, I guess, like in most places, if, if a 676 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,360 patient denounces their doctor saying, hey, my doctor suggested 677 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,840 I shouldn't get the flu vaccine because I, you know, it's not, 678 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,440 it's not effective, which I mean, I went to Oxford 679 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,120 University and they said that themselves. 680 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000 Then a doctor could potentially get into trouble because he's 681 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,280 not following the official health recommendations. 682 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,960 But I think we also need to allow doctors to go through the 683 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,480 potential repercussions that they might get from the health 684 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,280 authorities because they realize if they go all the way to the 685 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,320 end, if they make it and they they stay in their course. 686 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,679 The government hasn't got much to prove that vaccines really 687 00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:54,880 are safe and effective and the best way to prevent infection, 688 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,480 especially not for the flu. I mean, the flu is, I went to 689 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,800 Oxford University for a vaccinology course back in 690 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,320 October 2019 and I didn't actually remember and recall, 691 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,200 but I had Neil Ferguson as one of the teachers. 692 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,360 So the famous statistician from Imperial College. 693 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,200 Now pretty much everyone I spoke to admitted the flu vaccine was 694 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,600 30% effective if you're lucky. And I kind of was standing there 695 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,000 going, But how are we why are we pushing this on the medical 696 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,680 professionals? Like here in Switzerland, if you 697 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,680 don't get a if you don't get a flu vaccine, they make you make 698 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,320 wear a mask. And then anyone who does have a 699 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,120 flu vaccine has got their little, you know, their virtue 700 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,920 signaling badge saying I've got the flu vaccine when in case 701 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,800 they actually could potentially be transmitting it more easily 702 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,560 because the vaccine is not effective anyhow, Sorry, but why 703 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,680 are we giving it to pregnant women? 704 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,320 And the answer was it's better than nothing. 705 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:48,080 And for me, health, I mean, that's just showing that they 706 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,560 just want to push products on people. 707 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,200 It's not about health because sometimes doing nothing is 708 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,720 better than pushing an experimental, not so effective 709 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,960 product that hasn't actually really been monitored in 710 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,320 pregnant women over the long term. 711 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,760 And neither has the pertussis vaccine, which would get to 712 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,320 pregnant women. And now I've just checked now 713 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,480 there's a fourth one, Abrevisio, which is being also pushed on 714 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,280 pregnant women from 28 weeks in the UK and in Switzerland to 715 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,840 prevent against RSV. Pregnant women are being 716 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,000 bombarded by that. It makes no sense. 717 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,120 But again, the, the people's power is what is I think the 718 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,320 most important. People do not forget you have 719 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,920 the choice to say yes or no. And if anybody is pushing you 720 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,200 into the to it like an employer, get him to sign a sheet saying 721 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,640 that he will take responsibility for any side effects or any 722 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,560 problems that you have as a as a result, which is what some 723 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,040 people did during COVID and and their their employers backed 724 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,720 off. Yeah. 725 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:45,280 I mean, you know that that was a dire period for a lot of people 726 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,360 for all sorts of different reasons, actually, you know, 727 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,640 even the people that did believe there was a sort of existential 728 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,560 threat presented by a novel illness or not, whichever way 729 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,080 you looked at it, the the changes that were made to 730 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,440 people's lives on mass were almost universally awful. 731 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,960 And one of the things that's come out of that is, like you 732 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960 say, there are a lot of people who are within the medical 733 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560 profession who have in effect had their eyes opened, They've 734 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,080 turned their backs on on this and the other. 735 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,360 But there are also a lot of people who have in effect 736 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,480 doubled down and the language that's being used around this 737 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,600 particular issue and continues to be used by the media. 738 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,280 You know, if you if you exactly like you say, you've got this 739 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,240 suggestion that that that a pregnant woman should take 740 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,040 something because it's better than nothing. 741 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,320 I mean, pretty much the weakest argument you could possibly make 742 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:43,080 when the outcome could be death. But sort of associated with that 743 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:48,320 we, we see language like if you don't take a vaccine, it's not 744 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,880 just that you don't take it, you've refused it or you're 745 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,640 hesitant about it. Now, that is always run 746 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,720 alongside the, certainly in the UK, vaccination campaigns that 747 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:07,520 make absolutely no allusion to the possibility that any of this 748 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,680 could be harmful. You know that the current NHS 749 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,800 campaign for autumn vaccines is called Stay Stronger. 750 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,000 All the imagery they use on social media features cartoon 751 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,760 characters. And it's always a, you know, 752 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,080 it's a parent with a child as though exactly like you say with 753 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,920 the sort of white bread and sugar thing, as though, yeah, 754 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,880 well, it's just going to make you healthy, isn't it? 755 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,320 The because so the what I'm getting to is that the the 756 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,720 medical profession is part of it. 757 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:37,040 But of course, all of this is actually sewn up by media and by 758 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,720 advertising. Have you seen a change in the 759 00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:46,040 wind direction as far as media are concerned or or are they 760 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,320 just too closely in meshed with the pharmaceutical companies? 761 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,120 I guess it depends what means you're looking at. 762 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,160 I mean, I look the equivalent of the BBC here in Switzerland, 763 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,840 which is the RTS, which is also kind of like state controlled 764 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,920 and paid by the taxpayer. It seems like they're getting 765 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,360 desperate. So the messaging, like we have 766 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,040 our association, we usually didn't bother making complaints 767 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,880 against the press because we noticed that there actually 768 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,400 wasn't much consequence and it would take like 2 years before 769 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,000 you would get a decision. And by that time people 770 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,120 forgotten what you were talking about. 771 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,520 So that made no point. But we've noticed especially 772 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,120 during the immunization, the world immunization, which in 773 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,040 April of this year, there was a lot of disinformation that came 774 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,200 out of our mainstream media and we actually called him out on 775 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,000 it. And we're, I mean, it's again a 776 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,360 slow process, but we're going through the process of calling 777 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,760 them out because we don't think it's acceptable. 778 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,240 They weren't transparent about the fact that it was basically 779 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,600 promotion for The Who during that World Immunization week. 780 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,680 They were, you know, scaring the population against polio, 781 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,720 scaring the population against measles, using all these scare 782 00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:49,920 tactics to try it. And and also saying that 783 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,520 basically people who, who are hesitant against vaccines are 784 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,520 responsible for the increase in disease. 785 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,760 So you're also creating kind of like a, a hate and 786 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,120 discrimination against a certain group of people. 787 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,560 So I think they're, they're making mistakes because they're 788 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,800 going too far and they're being, I think it's for me, it seems 789 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,000 like. I see it as a positive thing 790 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,760 because it's, it's desperation and, and going to the point of 791 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,880 actually being completely dishonest with your public, 792 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,880 which is also going to further about public health. 793 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,280 I mean, public confidence is a proof to me that they, they 794 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,440 don't have much else. They don't really have science 795 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,360 on their side. They don't really have the 796 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,120 arguments on the side, hence why they have to use fear. 797 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:36,240 I, I, I have to laugh because, sorry, I was looking at my, my 798 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,040 collection the other day and I actually have a Peppa Pig gets 799 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,720 vaccinated book. Now, I know this is nothing to 800 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,360 do with like a high level discussion, but it, for me, it 801 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,120 showed how they're indoctrinating kids already from 802 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,000 a young age, like, and, and it said, it just said vaccines keep 803 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,000 you healthy. And that was it. 804 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,920 There was no other explanation. And that's, I mean, that's not a 805 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,040 scientific claim anyone can make because it's never been studied. 806 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,080 Do vaccines really make us healthier? 807 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,840 And that's the big question that Kennedy is trying to get to the 808 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,960 bottom of in the in the US because there's so much chronic 809 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,040 disease. I mean, even here in 810 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,360 Switzerland, we have a fantastic healthcare system, but yet we're 811 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,640 opening hospitals specifically for children who have chronic 812 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,160 diseases and cancer, autoimmune diseases where behavioral 813 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,440 issues. So I, I think they're getting 814 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,760 desperate because I think they're losing people. 815 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,160 I mean, they still are the majority, like still are the 816 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,160 majority of people who believe that vaccines are safe and 817 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,320 effective and we should get all of them and trust our government 818 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,440 authorities. But there are more and more and 819 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,360 I would say over 30%, maybe even 40 who are really, really not 820 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,520 having any of it and especially in France. 821 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,040 And why is that? Because the government mandated 822 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,760 11 vaccines after there was a petition from the people who 823 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,680 were just asking them to take aluminum out of the vaccines. 824 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,480 Because Sanofi used to do vacc vaccines well before it was 825 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,480 called Sanofi. It was as to bester, WHO, MELU, 826 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,320 they used to do vaccines with calcium phosphate as an 827 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,720 adjuvant, which is still approved as an adjuvant, but 828 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:05,080 nobody uses it. And because there was a petition 829 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,880 to get aluminum out of some of the vaccines, especially like 830 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,320 DTP, and the response was to make 11 vaccines obligatory and 831 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,840 obviously leave aluminum in most of them. 832 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,040 Uh, now France is one of the biggest vaccine hesitant 833 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,480 countries in Europe. So it, it does backfire when the 834 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,160 government tries to push on people. 835 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,440 But I think the media, especially nowadays is kind of 836 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,560 running out of arguments of just using fear and you're ridicule. 837 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,840 And that's the only thing that they have as the early arsenal 838 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,160 because they can't really address the actual scientific 839 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,480 arguments that people who are questioning vaccines bring up. 840 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,360 Like typically why don't we use saline placebos? 841 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,120 Why don't we do long term studies? 842 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,120 Why don't we do an unvaccinated versus vaccinated study? 843 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,800 All these questions they don't really want to address, hence 844 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,360 they use fear. And that's going to, it's going 845 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,120 to work against them, especially after COVID. 846 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,680 Yeah, 11 would hope so now in the hope that there will be 847 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,600 people listening to this who've come into it like you were years 848 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,680 ago sort of open minded and and hadn't really thought one way or 849 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,760 the other. Just just quickly on aluminium 850 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,240 and calcium phosphate, what what, what is, what are the 851 00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:10,200 issues with those two things? So aluminium is is probably the 852 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,440 oldest, what is the oldest adjuvant that we've been using 853 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,400 since the 1920s. It's used in the vaccines to 854 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,080 basically bolster the immune response because they noticed 855 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,760 that often when they were trying to inject certain products 856 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,640 wouldn't actually have any effects. 857 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,600 So they needed something that they knew was inflammatory, 858 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,560 which what aluminium is, and they use aluminum phosphate and 859 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,480 aluminum hydroxide principally in ADTP vaccine, hepatitis B, 860 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,400 Prevnar. I'm missing lots of vaccines, 861 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,760 but this is the aluminum salt that they used since the early 862 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,840 days. Now back in the 50s, I believe, 863 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,280 fifty 60s in France, they obviously noticed that aluminum 864 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,480 was creating some problems and they were looking for other 865 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:49,600 alternatives, other mineral based adjuvants and they looked 866 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,680 at calcium phosphate. Calcium phosphate was used in 867 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,760 France manufactured by a Melu the Astute pastel sorry, and was 868 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,520 used in their base vaccine. So the DTP polio they they have 869 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,000 the triple DT polio Coclus, which is pertussis was was later 870 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,480 combined and it was it was a quite successful adjuvant. 871 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,400 It was a little bit more expensive than aluminum because 872 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,960 aluminum is dirt cheap. So when and again, forgive me 873 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,400 my, my memory is exactly not exactly correct, but I believe 874 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,040 it was when Astute Pastel bought Melio or the other way round, 875 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,880 Melio bought Anschu Pasteur. They sold calcium phosphate was 876 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,080 costing them more and he decided to stop using it. 877 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,160 So they went back to just using aluminum. 878 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:33,840 Aluminum, sorry, because it's cheaper. 879 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,200 And so that's why calcium, sorry, calcium phosphate was 880 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,360 phased out of those French produced vaccines. 881 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,840 As far as I know it wasn't produced in the US or in any 882 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,840 other countries, but it was just a price issue. 883 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,560 But today, as I said, still can be used by any manufacturer who 884 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,040 decides they want to use a safer adjuvant because it's an organic 885 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,920 adjuvant that had less reactivity than aluminum, which 886 00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,120 we know is highly reactogenic. But they it was a it's a price 887 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,600 thing. And that's often, unfortunately, 888 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,080 many of the decisions are made based on prices. 889 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,080 And for the DTP shot, those who know a little bit about the 890 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,000 wholesale, a seller discussion that from the 90s, we started 891 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,440 using the a cellular version because it was less reactogenic 892 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,040 and we abandoned the wholesale pertussis, which was really 893 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,080 reactogenic and probably why the DTP was getting so much, so many 894 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,040 lawsuits for neurological damage. 895 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,920 They still use the wholesale DTP in Africa, in Asia, in South 896 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,360 America, UNICEF still orders them and distributes them on a 897 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,080 massive scale, on a massive scale. 898 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,480 So why are we using these more reactive vaccines in these 899 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,040 countries? It's because they're cheaper and 900 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,240 obviously there's less surveillance in these these 901 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,800 developing nations or low, low income nations, as they call 902 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,840 them now, low to middle income nations, but it's they, they 903 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,240 shouldn't be allowed. I mean, sorry, I, I get really 904 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:54,800 upset. I want to think about just the 905 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,000 finance like it's we're talking about pennies and these, these 906 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,880 Pharmaceutical industry, obviously we know they make 907 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:04,000 billions of dollars. I mean, Pfizer, Sanofi, Merck, 908 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000 GSK, they make billions and people who say that vaccines 909 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,840 don't make billions, I'm sorry, but that's not the case anymore. 910 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,960 It used to be maybe back in before the 80s, but now they 911 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,720 make billions. And obviously the COVID vaccine 912 00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:21,120 has made over $86 billion for Pfizer in in the space of four 913 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,760 years. Prevnar has made about 50. 914 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,280 That's probably sorry, made about 80 billion as well. 915 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,640 Since it's been released in 2000, Gardasil has made over $50 916 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,880 billion. And these are companies who 917 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,280 don't have to pay out a penny for injury or damages. 918 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,760 So it's, you know, and plus the government markets their 919 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,040 products and the government mandates their products in some 920 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,560 countries. Yeah, it is deeply shocking, and 921 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,920 to the outsider it it is apparently so obvious when when 922 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,840 one's skates it away. It is also something you're 923 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,560 never going to read in Peppa Pig because the propaganda campaign 924 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,680 surrounding it is, is so, so well, sort of packaged and 925 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,640 delivered. But on that, on the finances, 926 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,040 because let's say, let's just let's just scrape away all the, 927 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,640 all the sort of apparent health benefits, whatever it is about 928 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,760 money. I mean, that is obvious to 929 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,720 anyone who spent more than 5 minutes reading the instructions 930 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:15,920 or all the, you know, ingredients of a vaccine or what 931 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,400 it may do or indeed looking at any evidence of what it could do 932 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,000 health wise. It is about money. 933 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,200 Now this is going to be perhaps a difficult question to answer 934 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,080 because I'm asking you in a general sense. 935 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,520 But whilst you've got the pharmaceutical com companies run 936 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:36,920 by people who are driven by a mania concerning profit above 937 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,120 all else. And actually when one thinks, 938 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,120 sorry, just on on the returns one gets. 939 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,520 I mean, Bill Gates is a very good example of somebody who's 940 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,720 not shy about saying he's at a 20 fold return on his investment 941 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,480 in vaccines. You know, he giggles every time 942 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,040 he says it, which is sort of repellent at the same time as 943 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,600 being astonishing. But so you've got that, that 944 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,680 tier of people who are driving the finances of the system and 945 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,360 indeed greasing the skids where the regulatory agencies and 946 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,360 bodies are concerned. But to make all of this happen, 947 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,760 of course, you need people who are at least in some capacity, 948 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,080 sort of scientists or chemists, biologists. 949 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:21,800 And is it, is it at all plausible that none of them has 950 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,360 any idea what's going on? I mean, you know, we, we cite, 951 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,120 let's let's consider Andrew Wakefield, for example, who did 952 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,320 what he did because he, he went to have a look at something that 953 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:32,840 he thought nobody else was having a look at. 954 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,280 How, how are we to regard those people who are, I mean, there 955 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,520 are many, many, many of them who sort of who make this happen. 956 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,040 Should it be blindingly obvious to them that this is happening 957 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,880 Or, or is there some mechanism by which they are completely 958 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:52,000 sort of blinded or blindsided? I think there are unfortunately 959 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,080 a lot of people who completely blinded and blindsided. 960 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,680 And and it's also it's an ideological construct. 961 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,680 I mean, when you I mean, I'm not even in the field, but it was 962 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,640 hard for me to go through the process of realizing, Oh, crap, 963 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,920 like what we've been told about vaccines, It's not true. 964 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,400 Or, you know, they've been hiding information. 965 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,400 Someone who spent their whole career working in vaccinology, 966 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,200 working on developing vaccines because they really want to help 967 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:16,480 people. I mean, there are lots of people 968 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,040 who work in farmer, who work in relic trade agencies, who even 969 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,560 work for The Who, who really are good people looking to make a 970 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,840 difference, a positive difference to help people. 971 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:30,080 And it's incredibly, I can imagine so crushing to realize 972 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,520 that, OK, maybe I was wrong. And there are some brave 973 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,000 scientists who will, who will, who will leave the field because 974 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,400 they're just completely disgusted. 975 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,240 There were others who would just pretend it's not happening 976 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,000 because they, you know, they have a mortgage to pay, they 977 00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,640 have a kid in college and all the rest of it. 978 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,720 And there are some who believe what they're saying. 979 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:51,680 They, honestly, they think that people who highlight injuries or 980 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,040 problems after vaccines are crazy and need to be silenced. 981 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,600 Now, is it because they're being so conditioned and brainwashed? 982 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:00,720 Perhaps? I don't know. 983 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:03,520 I mean, when I was in Oxford, again, it's interesting because 984 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:04,960 I was the only known scientist in the room. 985 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,920 And I'm, I'm doing a, a course on vaccinology with PhD 986 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,640 students, with scientists with regulatory agent people. 987 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:16,720 And Wakefield came up and actually at a lunch table, I 988 00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,360 said, well, has anybody actually read 1, his original paper and 989 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,680 2nd the lawsuit against him And nobody had. 990 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,120 And here I am sitting in a room with scientists and they haven't 991 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,160 even read the source document. They just, they just based their 992 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,480 opinion based on the media, based on what Brian Dear said in 993 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,120 the Sunday Mail or the Times. And nobody has gone to look at 994 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,200 the actual paper because people are still saying that. 995 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,240 Oh, he said there was a connection between autism and 996 00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:42,480 vaccines. He never said that. 997 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:45,160 He suggested a possible link that warranted further 998 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,960 investigation. And that in itself you've not 999 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,760 allowed to say. I mean, I think the big mistake 1000 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,600 that, well, big mistake that the what what pissed off the 1001 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,840 industry was when he went to the press conference and said you 1002 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,720 should get the individual vaccines and not the MMR because 1003 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,000 we don't have enough safety data. 1004 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,640 I think that was what they didn't like and hence why they 1005 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,440 pulled off the single vaccines off the market six months later. 1006 00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:06,480 That wasn't Wakefield who did it. 1007 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,360 That was the Pharmaceutical industry who took the choice 1008 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,160 away from Barron's. It's shocking to discover a lot 1009 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:13,760 of scientists don't actually read. 1010 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,800 They don't have time or they don't have the interest or they 1011 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,680 only want to read the abstract. They don't want to read the 1012 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,440 actual, you know, the, the, the whole report. 1013 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,680 And, and yeah, I, I even had at that table when I was again in 1014 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,840 Oxford, APHD student who, ironically, who was working on 1015 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,040 the microbiome, who said I'd rather have autism than measles. 1016 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,920 And my mouth dropped because on top of it, she told me she got 1017 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,160 the measles after she had the vaccine. 1018 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,920 So she'd had measles, she'd had the vaccine, and yet she's still 1019 00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,120 standing there saying she'd rather have autism than measles. 1020 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,320 And I mean, she wasn't a parent at that point. 1021 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,600 She was too young. Well, she could have still, but 1022 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,320 there are some ideas in people's head which just don't make any 1023 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,760 sense. And you have to ask, is it just 1024 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,040 because her condition that way? It's because they're they want 1025 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,560 to make sure they stay in their their lane because that's 1026 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:10,160 science is publish or perish. It's unfortunately become in 1027 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,560 itself also corrupted by money, corrupted by interest. 1028 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,280 You have to stay in in in the lane if you want to get your 1029 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,840 funding, you want to get your grants and you want to be 1030 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,040 acknowledged by your peers. And I used to be really, you 1031 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,440 know, have the imposter syndrome that I don't have a PhD or 1032 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:25,680 anything. And I'm still talking about a 1033 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,920 subject like this. But I've seen people with two 1034 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,160 PhDs who get absolutely discredited and completely 1035 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,800 demounted, dismounted because they're talking negatively or 1036 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,920 criticizing vaccines. It doesn't matter how much like 1037 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,640 scientific clout you have, you're still going to get bashed 1038 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,360 down by those who are trying to protect the industry. 1039 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,320 There's a lot of money in it. I mean, if you look at the 1040 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,480 amount of vaccine conferences there are in the world and all 1041 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,840 the, I mean, now with the biotech industry, it's gigantic. 1042 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,800 You're probably talking about like millions of people hired 1043 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,120 from the factories to, to the developing scientists to the 1044 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,000 distribution to the marketing companies. 1045 00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,520 It's massive. It's absolutely massive. 1046 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:12,120 And yeah, sorry, I may have lost a little bit the, the, the chest 1047 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,800 of the question, but I think it's an ideological construct 1048 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,480 that has to be a little bit broken with, with honesty and 1049 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,600 with truth. But it's going to be hard for 1050 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,920 some. It, it absolutely is. 1051 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,760 And that's it. You, you articulate that that 1052 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,520 sort of tsunami of pressure coming the other way, I think 1053 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,840 very, very well. And your those anecdotes about 1054 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,400 people just taking it as read that Wakefield did or said or 1055 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:37,680 wrote whatever without ever checking. 1056 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,360 And indeed, somebody making that remark about measles and autumn, 1057 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,400 absolutely staggering. But they, anecdotal as they are, 1058 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,640 they absolutely encapsulate the, the, the, the situation and what 1059 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,520 you're describing now with the, the sort of, you know, financial 1060 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,480 resources and, and the messaging and everything else. 1061 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:58,680 What I want to ask you is how the heck did you get your book 1062 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,840 out? Because not only have you 1063 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,520 managed to publish it, but, but prior to that you were asking 1064 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,720 for the release of data and documents and whatnot that was 1065 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:10,880 in effect, to some degree classified. 1066 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,560 And given the sensitivity and all the stuff we talked about up 1067 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,240 until now, how did you make that happen and, and, and what were 1068 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:20,680 the challenges? Well, I have to say, people who 1069 00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,080 work in libraries are very friendly, very helpful. 1070 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,840 And I, as I said, because a lot of things I was reading in books 1071 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,840 I didn't believe, but I decided to go to the libraries. 1072 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,600 I started obviously in Switzerland because that's where 1073 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,720 I was based. But then I, I, I invested in a 1074 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:35,400 research trip in the UK and I started with the British Library 1075 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,400 looking for the historical documents and then the National 1076 00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,520 Archives to find out what the government had said. 1077 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,560 Now anybody can walk into National Archives in Kew Gardens 1078 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,840 in London and you know, they do a keyword search, you know, the 1079 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,160 Committee of safety on Medicines, 1980. 1080 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,800 I'm really interested to find out what this is going to come 1081 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,240 out with the MMR vaccine. It's precisely when Wakefield 1082 00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:59,080 had that whole episode with social autism scare. 1083 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:00,840 And then you, you make a request. 1084 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,000 Sometimes the documents are closed and they will, they make 1085 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,360 a consideration if they open them because you've made a 1086 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,720 request even though it's before the 100 year mark. 1087 00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:11,760 I mean, I've seen documents closed for 100 years for for 1088 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,000 privacy reasons, but obviously when they they do make them 1089 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,800 available, sometimes the names are listed. 1090 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,240 So often these people are dead and they're not, you know, alive 1091 00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,040 anymore. But anybody can walk into the 1092 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,640 National Archives and do that. I didn't have to do anything 1093 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,440 special. The only pushback was some 1094 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,120 documents I asked for, I didn't get, I didn't get permission. 1095 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,920 Like I didn't get permission from the work compensation 1096 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,120 document because the work compensation scheme had a lot of 1097 00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,440 information about vaccine injury within the hospitals. 1098 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,440 And the one, for whatever reason, they didn't give me 1099 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,360 access to that. So, but I can try again later. 1100 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:45,000 So that information is available. 1101 00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,760 And in the US as well, in the UKI have to give you kudos 1102 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,560 because when they say Freedom of Information, it really is free, 1103 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,120 contrary to Switzerland where you have to pay for it and you 1104 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,000 pay sometimes up to 100 francs an hour for whatever you're 1105 00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,400 asking for. And how did I get my book 1106 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,120 published? Well, I was very fortunate that 1107 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:05,800 because I was involved in this organization since 2021, so 1108 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,040 which is called Reinfor Sante. We were basically a coalition of 1109 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:10,800 doctors and medical professionals and health 1110 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,200 professionals who were thinking that, well, if we get together, 1111 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,880 we'll have a stronger voice together to counter what's going 1112 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,600 on about COVID, these ridiculous policies, you know, preventing 1113 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,920 treatment, et cetera. Didn't quite go that way, but at 1114 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,920 least we found each other. We felt less isolated. 1115 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,920 And in that context, I met up with a few people and I end up 1116 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,680 going to a conference in Stockholm in 2023. 1117 00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,680 And during that conference in Stockholm, I was able to sit 1118 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,360 down with Robert Malone and his wife Jill. 1119 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,560 And I actually had a prototype of my manuscript with me. 1120 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,560 He'd obviously just come out with that book Government Lies 1121 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,000 My Government Told me that was printed with Skyhorse. 1122 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,440 Skyhorse was actually probably the the, the publisher. 1123 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,200 I was like hoping I would be able to approach for this book 1124 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,360 because again, it's not a book that exists already. 1125 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,160 It's really a compendium on a chronological basis of 1126 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,840 historical facts on vaccines. It's over 2 thousand 1300 facts 1127 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:07,240 on vaccines and Robert Malone and his wife were were 1128 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,360 interested in my project and saw how much work I put into it. 1129 00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,680 I had two different manuscripts because I had one on vaccine 1130 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,000 safety and then one knows the timeline and he immediately 1131 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,040 acted basically like my agent. He, you know, he contacted Tony 1132 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,040 Lyons from Skyhorse and said, Hey, I've got this, this this 1133 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,480 person here who, who's written this book, you should take a 1134 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,080 look at it. And then I sent the manuscript 1135 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,080 to Tony Lyons, Skyhorse and the rest is history. 1136 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,600 But I mean, obviously it's a, it's a long process getting a 1137 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,440 book published. And I understand why people self 1138 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,000 publish as well, because the, you know, it, it gets out 1139 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,120 quicker. But for me being a a new author 1140 00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,120 as well, I mean, I, I've, I've self published a book on the 1141 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,560 virus, which was the first book I wrote because I thought if 1142 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,440 people were less scared of the virus, of viruses, then they'll 1143 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,880 be less inclined to go and get injected with, with whatever 1144 00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,160 we're told that we can inject. But it was, it was that it was 1145 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,320 making good connections, meeting the right people at the right 1146 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,040 time, basically that helped me to get this book out. 1147 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,520 And obviously Tony Lyons and then Zoe O'Toole, who's a very 1148 00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,880 important editor at Children's Health Defense, looked also at 1149 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,720 the manuscript and because she was also enthusiastic about it 1150 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,160 and said, Hey, this is an addition to information that we 1151 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:14,920 have on vaccines. It's not just like saying 1152 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,200 something we already know or it's regurgitated. 1153 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,120 And thankfully, with her help, we were able to get the final 1154 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,600 draft and get it to print. Amazing story. 1155 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,560 I mean, I don't know what you'd say this week. 1156 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,480 It strikes me that had you not had those connections you 1157 00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,680 describe and you'd gone to a publisher cold did, what do you 1158 00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:36,760 think the outcome would have been? 1159 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,960 I think I would have been. I mean, I did go to do a writing 1160 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,680 course a couple of years before and I was told that if you don't 1161 00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,240 have a Doctor Who's writing it with you, forget it. 1162 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,720 We're not interested. So that that would have been a 1163 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,360 serious handicap. Obviously, as I'm not a 1164 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,960 physician or a scientist. If I hadn't had an associate, if 1165 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,320 I hadn't written a book, Co written it with someone who was 1166 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,720 in science, I don't think I would have been able to get any 1167 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,120 interest. I still would have set my 1168 00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,280 manuscript off to, to Skyhorse and, and see what my chances 1169 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,000 were. But it's true. 1170 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,840 The other publishers I contacted in the UK when I did my, my 1171 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,280 course with Bloomsbury, I believe it was Bloomsbury. 1172 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,520 Bloomsbury I think it was. Sorry, they, they, they set out 1173 00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,320 right and we're not going to look at it unless you have 1174 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,880 you're Co writing with a scientist or a doctor. 1175 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:18,360 OK. Wow. 1176 00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,840 Well, yeah, no surprise there. I suppose I'm just just going 1177 00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,240 back to your the book you just showed up. 1178 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:31,280 It's very easy to make a case for the marketing of vaccines or 1179 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:36,080 indeed other medical products and indeed the sorts of control 1180 00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,960 mechanisms that we saw put in place in 2020 almost all around 1181 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:46,400 the world as being predicated on the threat presented by 1182 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,920 something that is transmissible. Going back to your original 1183 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:54,720 position on vaccines that are being open minded, it is the 1184 00:59:55,240 --> 01:00:00,000 very existence or indeed the sort of pathogenicity of what is 1185 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,960 described as a virus, something that you've looked at at all 1186 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,560 sort of in relation to your vaccination research. 1187 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,600 Absolutely. I actually started with this 1188 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,080 book on the viruses before I went and did the, the book on 1189 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,920 the vaccines because I mean, I, I, I, I never wanted to do such 1190 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,480 a, a large, dense book and I wanted to do something that was 1191 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,200 more friendly and approachable to, to parents. 1192 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,400 And I actually started with a virology course at the 1193 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:31,120 University of Columbia learning about viruses because I, I 1194 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,480 again, knew nothing about viruses and was interested about 1195 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,320 the whole domain of virology. How do we define a virus? 1196 01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:37,840 You know, what are the categorizations? 1197 01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,840 And again, I found out was like, whoa, it's massive. 1198 01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,560 Like there are big zillions of viruses we have no idea about. 1199 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,840 And we're just focusing on the ones that we think cause disease 1200 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:46,120 and not looking at everything else. 1201 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,040 So yes, I, I actually, I would say part of the vaccine research 1202 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,280 was looking at viruses because a lot of vaccines are obviously, 1203 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,520 as we know, against viral infections. 1204 01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,080 And I would say the majority of them now are against viral 1205 01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,240 infections. I mean, Gardasil is HPV is a 1206 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,400 virus. COVID obviously is a virus. 1207 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,640 The flu is a virus. You've got RSV is a virus. 1208 01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,080 And I think there are more going to come out and the way they 1209 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,720 can. Again, I say they, but I say the 1210 01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:20,520 authorities create this fear that no, viral infections are 1211 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,680 what make us sick, not looking at any other factors like 1212 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,440 environmental factors or what else is going on, you know, 1213 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,240 you're immune, depressed or etcetera. 1214 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,320 I think it's important that people understand that viruses 1215 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,960 are as important as epic as bacteria. 1216 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,240 And the imminent scientists, again, it's not me saying this, 1217 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,880 but imminent scientists who have dared to say that viruses are 1218 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,400 super important to, to the evolution of humanity, to 1219 01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,280 evolution of life, that there is no life without viruses. 1220 01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,800 We shouldn't be fearing them. We should understand them 1221 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,800 better, Absolutely. But we have like simplified the 1222 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,320 concept just so it scares the crap out of people instead of 1223 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,760 educating them on what are viruses and the fact there are 1224 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,920 so many of them that we only know a small amount. 1225 01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,480 And how do we check for viruses? Because they're invisible. 1226 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,520 Nobody's nobody. Neither you nor me have actually 1227 01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,560 seen one, and most people have never and never will see one 1228 01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,040 because it's simply not in the capacity. 1229 01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,200 And we haven't got access to an electron microscope. 1230 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,080 And even if we did, we're not even sure we'd be able to 1231 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,400 isolate 1. So there's so much fear and 1232 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,440 ignorance around the issue of viruses and that fuels the 1233 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,040 vaccine uptake and that fuels the whole debate of, you know, 1234 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,320 you have to get a vaccine because this, I mean, we have 1235 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,280 now this Frankenstein COVID variant. 1236 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,560 I mean, they call it Frankenstein already. 1237 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,080 They should tell you something, but they're always going to be 1238 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,920 able to come out with new variants because that's the 1239 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:42,440 nature of viruses. They mutate. 1240 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,240 There's going to be different strains, but they're able to use 1241 01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,280 every strain as a, as a fear mongering device to again, try 1242 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:54,880 to get people to to vaccinate. And it's really frustrating 1243 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,120 sometimes because people are still so, so, so have so much 1244 01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:00,680 confidence in the public health authorities. 1245 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,440 And unfortunately, the public health authorities, as we've 1246 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,960 mentioned this, not just the regulatory agencies have maybe 1247 01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,440 got vested interest, but the public health authorities as 1248 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,000 well. I've discovered very high up 1249 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,480 people in our infectious disease department were being paid by 1250 01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,320 Merck whilst they were working for the government. 1251 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,480 And this is just kind of like, OK, you know, no one, no one is 1252 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,440 scandalized by this. No one sees it as a potential 1253 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,440 conflict of interest. But when you have got the profit 1254 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:28,480 motive behind potential products that you can sell, when you 1255 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,680 scare people that that breaks down the whole real discourse 1256 01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:32,720 you're going to have about health. 1257 01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,720 Because as you in the UK, you didn't see, I mean, here in 1258 01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,960 system, we didn't see any communication during COVID 1259 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:42,080 about, you know, how to stay healthy, how to how to boost 1260 01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:43,960 your immune system, keep your vitamin D levels. 1261 01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,280 No, they told us vitamin D has there's no significance in 1262 01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,360 health. I mean stuff which is just 1263 01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,440 scandalous. So viruses, I think you cannot 1264 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:56,280 look at vaccines without looking at viruses, just as you cannot 1265 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,800 look at vaccines without looking at biological weapons because 1266 01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,240 that's also a huge part of of how vaccines have been developed 1267 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:06,440 is through military dual use research into biological 1268 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,400 weapons. So those are those kind of like 1269 01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,840 go part and parcel when you're doing analysis or an in depth 1270 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:15,240 research into vaccines. But I highly, I mean, I do 1271 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,520 highly recommend that people go and understand a bit more about 1272 01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,680 viruses because they're only going to come out with more of 1273 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,080 them and try to use the scare tactic and information is power. 1274 01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,840 And if you don't get scared anymore, then you're impervious 1275 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,160 to to their propaganda, which is again, what it is. 1276 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,800 I mean, you're saying stay stronger with like kids 1277 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,600 animations. It's it's they're really talking 1278 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,480 down to us like we're idiots. And they've been doing that for 1279 01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,720 a long time with everything to do with vaccines. 1280 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,360 Even here in Switzerland, they use like little cartoons to try 1281 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,680 to explain things to us because, you know, people are too stupid 1282 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:50,520 to understand it otherwise. But they they don't give correct 1283 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,000 information. They don't empower people with 1284 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,400 the information about health because ultimately that's the 1285 01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,560 most important resource we have after our time, if not maybe 1286 01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,320 more important than our time, because our time is is worthless 1287 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,560 if we don't have health to optimize the experience. 1288 01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,680 Yeah, exactly. No, you make you make very, very 1289 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,240 good points on the way in which fear is first of all sort of 1290 01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,840 constructed or confected and then and then weaponized. 1291 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,240 And in fact, I mean, this will be the case everywhere, but it's 1292 01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,960 so obvious in the UK that the people who fund or produce the 1293 01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:24,960 pharmaceutical answer of the same people who are funding 1294 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,920 research into what are described as emerging diseases. 1295 01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,240 I mean, it's, it's just so blindingly obvious. 1296 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,760 And again, the, the sort of narrative surrounding the idea 1297 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,600 of a virus and what it may be and what it may do has again, 1298 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,760 interestingly, created a, a sort of resurgence in the terrain 1299 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,160 theory. You know, exactly what you were 1300 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,800 talking about the, the environmental considerations. 1301 01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:49,280 So it will be very interesting to see where this goes. 1302 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,440 Now what that brings me to, and I think we'll have to sort of 1303 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:57,640 conclude on this is, is what would you advise or recommend or 1304 01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,720 suggest that people can do? Because this is exactly, you 1305 01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,880 know, going back to the sort of the hairdresser conversation or, 1306 01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,360 you know, what flu vaccine people do get, rightly so, very, 1307 01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:14,920 very emotionally charged and philosophically too about this. 1308 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,760 And yet, you know, we spoke about the Victorian period in in 1309 01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,120 England when there was the National Anti Vaccination 1310 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,280 League, but it exists no longer. There are, you know, 1311 01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,960 organizations that have countering this sort of thing as 1312 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,720 part of their remit. Is that to your knowledge, you 1313 01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,880 know, and organizational organizations that are 1314 01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,800 specifically sort of single issue on on this kind of thing 1315 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,120 or just in general terms, you know, what would you recommend 1316 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:44,800 to people to do to to help push the swing the pendulum the other 1317 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,280 way? I imagine there are local 1318 01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,280 parents groups which are specifically dealing with issues 1319 01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,280 of vaccination. I mean, I'm looking more at the 1320 01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,720 general health groups which look at health as a larger, in like a 1321 01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,000 larger perspective, larger image. 1322 01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,040 Which obviously the World Council of Health is, is one of 1323 01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:01,880 the main ones which is based in the UK, which has done fantastic 1324 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,320 work, have fantastic resources on our website. 1325 01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,000 This is a Children's Health defense, not just about 1326 01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,560 vaccines, about health in general, but I think the most 1327 01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,920 important thing for parents, for grandparents, because everyone 1328 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,720 is, is touched by the subject vaccines. 1329 01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,840 Now, even if you're an adult, they're going to push you to get 1330 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,160 the flu vaccine or they'll push you to get your update on your 1331 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,720 tetanus. I think it's really important 1332 01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,800 that people read. And if they don't like reading, 1333 01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,480 then what could watch your documentary or, or I mean, 1334 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,840 obviously there's faxed, which is documentary specifically 1335 01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,960 about the cover up in the CDC about the, the unpleasant 1336 01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,960 statistics on autism and vaccines. 1337 01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:41,800 But there are loads of documentaries out there. 1338 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,280 There are great books. I would especially recommend 1339 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,280 Dissolving Illusions, as I said, by Suzanne Humphreys and Roman 1340 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,200 Bistrionic. I also very highly recommend 1341 01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,440 this book by Aaron Suri, who is a fantastic attorney in the US 1342 01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,840 who's worked with ICAN, who has written a fantastic book where 1343 01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:58,960 he's got again, he's a legal background. 1344 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,480 So he he looks at evidence from a court legal perspective. 1345 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,880 And I think that people need to have conversations and not be 1346 01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:09,080 afraid to have difficult conversations, but to ask 1347 01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:12,120 questions because I've had a lot of people who are, you know, 1348 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,400 very strongly opposed to vaccines and they'll get 1349 01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,680 accusatory. Like all they're doing is 1350 01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:18,880 they're doing that la, la, la. I think if you're going to have 1351 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:20,960 a conversation, which is productive, you need to ask 1352 01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,720 questions. Well, what do you think we 1353 01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:25,520 should put in our body? What do you think is, is, you 1354 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,319 know, does it make sense to be putting these products in this 1355 01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,840 and don't you think that we should be testing all these 1356 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,880 vaccines on the schedule before we recommend them to babies? 1357 01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,840 I think that's the way forward is entering into a dialogue with 1358 01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:43,240 questioning, with humility, with no accusations, but not being 1359 01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:45,240 afraid to have those conversations cause a lot of 1360 01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,760 people just shut up about those conversations, 'cause I mean, 1361 01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:49,439 I've, I've lost friends on this journey. 1362 01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,279 This is obviously, but that's OK. 1363 01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:57,240 You know, life is about change, So, and it's important to have 1364 01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:59,680 these conversations. It's important not to censor 1365 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,240 yourself. And I've been doing that for 1366 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,960 years. Why I would censor myself 1367 01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,920 because I didn't feel like I should say anything because I'm 1368 01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:09,439 not a scientist or anyone. But I think conversations are 1369 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:11,840 important and it's OK to disagree. 1370 01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,800 We're not all going to agree on the same thing, but I think 1371 01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,920 we're all, if we can all agree that the health of our children 1372 01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:22,040 and of ourselves is our most important resource and we don't 1373 01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,920 want to threaten that. And, and if we're going to, 1374 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:27,880 we're going to try and do everything we do to preserve it 1375 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,680 basically. So, But people have to spend 1376 01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,479 time reading because no matter how much you listen to someone 1377 01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,840 just telling you something, if you don't actually go through 1378 01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,240 the process of understanding and realizing yourself, it's not 1379 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,000 going to have the same impact. And often, unfortunately, that 1380 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,359 happens through tragedy. So either, you know, a vaccine 1381 01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:45,479 injured kid and the parent who suddenly realizes, or in my 1382 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:49,840 case, you know, my dad. So, but yeah, I think it's 1383 01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,120 important that we have open conversations, even if we know 1384 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,120 we're going to disagree, but be humble and to ask questions. 1385 01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,800 Absolutely. Very, very good advice, which I 1386 01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,880 think will be passed far and wide. 1387 01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,560 And you talk about being humble now you have been far too humble 1388 01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,280 because I noted in your list of resources you didn't talk about 1389 01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,920 your own book, but you're going to have to do so. 1390 01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,320 No, no, the ultimate vaccine timeline. 1391 01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:16,400 I mean, it's very obvious from the discussion we've had that it 1392 01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:20,040 is incredibly thorough, and it sounds like exactly the sort of 1393 01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,240 thing that anyone who's listened to this interview not only 1394 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:23,760 should read, but should tell others about. 1395 01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:25,640 Where can we get your book, Shaz? 1396 01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:29,200 So my book is available on Amazon I believe in the UK. 1397 01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,440 I'm not sure there's other big platforms in the UK. 1398 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,840 But I'm also a very ardent supporter of local bookstores. 1399 01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:36,640 So if you do have a local bookstore where you want to 1400 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,080 support, order in because they can order it from their 1401 01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,040 distributor. But otherwise Amazon is probably 1402 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:43,360 easier. And yeah, it's the vaccine. 1403 01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,760 I I also recommend getting little tabs because it is dense 1404 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,080 and I think there will be certain parts that you might 1405 01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,680 want to refer to back. But but yeah, that that's where 1406 01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,040 you can get it in the UK and I believe in mainland Europe. 1407 01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:00,200 Perfect. I'm sorry. 1408 01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:01,920 No, that. Well, that's great. 1409 01:11:02,440 --> 01:11:05,480 That's really useful. Now what about any other 1410 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:07,640 websites, social media? Is there anywhere else that we 1411 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,040 can sort of follow what it is you're continuing to do? 1412 01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:12,600 So I have a website that accompanies the book which I'm 1413 01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,120 updating slowly with with a new material is called the ultimate 1414 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,480 vaccinetimeline.com. I also recently started a sub 1415 01:11:19,480 --> 01:11:21,760 stack where you can follow me, which is called Indie 1416 01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:26,440 researcher, so Indi eresearcher.substack.com. 1417 01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:30,600 And then I have a website where I publish information about 1418 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,360 health in general, but not vaccines, and that's called 1419 01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:38,480 Health Science simplified.com. So yeah, I'm not, I'm, I'm not 1420 01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:42,600 very social media active, but those are the places where I 1421 01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:44,880 share information, where if you want to reach out to me and 1422 01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,400 contact me, you can and, and yeah, that's it. 1423 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,680 Lovely. OK, And for those of you dashing 1424 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,320 for a pad and paper, don't worry about all these will be written 1425 01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,720 down in the notes that accompany this interview. 1426 01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,320 And on that note, we we will have to draw to a close. 1427 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:03,560 But it Shaz, it's been a fascinating journey through not 1428 01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,640 just the research and indeed the results of your book, but but 1429 01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:12,480 also the stories that have sort of bookended it and indeed the, 1430 01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,640 you know, the issues that you continue to to confront and your 1431 01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,760 message. So thank you so much for joining 1432 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,320 me at UK column and I and I really do wish you well with 1433 01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:26,400 with everything that you're, you know, doing in life and and in 1434 01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,280 particular with the book. Thank you so much and thank you 1435 01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,480 for everything that you've been doing with the UK column. 1436 01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,080 And also I read your personal story I thought was very 1437 01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,360 interesting about your your background and why you left the 1438 01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,160 police force. And I want to thank you for 1439 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:39,840 everything that you're doing. So thank you very much.