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Hello and welcome to another 
episode of the Silk and Steel 

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Podcast. 
I am your host, Carl Zar. 

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Today we have a very special 
guest from Beijing. 

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Jason, I have known you for a 
long time, Jason Smith For the 

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people who don't know you, for 
the people I don't know why they

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would know you, but for for 
people who might not know you. 

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Jason, could you do a very brief
intro of who you are and what 

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you do? 
Well, my name is Jason Smith. 

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I am a radio show host, which I 
think is special because I think

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I'm the only actual American 
U.S. citizen radio show host in 

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China. 
So if you turn on the radio in 

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some cities, you're going to 
hear my voice, which I think is 

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special. 
I, I, my podcast is called The 

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Bridge to China. 
You can find us on all 

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podcasting platforms. 
I recently wrote this book. 

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And so I'm kind of studying like
what China is doing with other 

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developing countries around the 
world. 

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And now I'm working on another 
book, which is studying poverty 

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alleviation in China. 
I'm very interested. 

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I go to like small villages that
used to be impoverished and I 

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study how they've become more 
prosperous. 

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Well, that what that road has 
been like and how they did it. 

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And I want to I want to do that 
for other developing countries, 

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but also because I think some of
those techniques can actually be

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replicated back home in the 
States. 

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And I think that would be cool. 
Yeah, I can. 

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You just read out the title of 
the book because it's it's 

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backwards when you hold it up 
the the title, it's kind of hard

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to read because it's backwards. 
But what does the title say? 

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A world beyond poverty, China's 
road map to a shared future. 

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This is I wouldn't recommend 
this for people who don't like 

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difficult books because this is 
like a a compendium. 

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It's like an encyclopedia of 
projects from around the world. 

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It's not like a book about, oh, 
my experience of no, it's just 

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one project after another. 
What did China build? 

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How much did it cost? 
Was it a grant? 

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Was it a loan? 
What were the terms, you know, 

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what is China actually doing in 
Laos or what is China actually 

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doing in Egypt? 
You know, what is it did it 

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actually do? 
Because a lot of people have 

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weird ideas that China is debt 
trapping countries and it's it's

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just not true. 
So I wanted to produce a book 

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that explicitly shows what China
is actually up to in a lot of 

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these developing countries. 
What's it, what is it building, 

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and what are those countries 
getting and what are they giving

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in return? 
Well, the reason I invited to my

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show, Jason, is to provide easy,
accessible information to my 

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audience. 
So what I so you know, because I

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like to do it in the podcast for
much like you you, but I I'm 

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kind of interested. 
How does American boy like you 

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ended up in China in the first 
place? 

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Well, I, I got a master's degree
in California and it was in 

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modern world history, but like 
most Americans, I've never 

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actually seen the world outside 
of North America, right. 

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So I was like, OK, well, I need 
to go see the world if I'm going

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to pretend that I understand 
what it's like. 

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So I moved to South Korea and, 
you know, that wasn't for me. 

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It was a great, it's a great 
country, wonderful food, 

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wonderful people, but it, I 
wasn't the right fit for me. 

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Then I moved to China and I, my 
intention at that point was I'm 

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gonna move every two or three 
years to a new country. 

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And then I just got soaked. 
This was 2012 July when I moved 

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to China and I, I fell in love 
with China and then I just 

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couldn't leave. 
And now I now I'm just here. 

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You're stuck. 
You you. 

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You met your wife in China. 
That's right. 

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Yeah. 
We we met in Shandong. 

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She's from Shandong and we were 
immediately a couple and we're 

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we got married the next year and
now she's asleep in in the 

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bedroom. 
She sleeps during the day. 

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I don't know. 
Well, you, you, you, you, you 

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have much compliment on your 
wife's taste on on the on the 

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beautiful background you have. 
That's right. 

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This is her. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, the traditional Chinese 
painting of cranes. 

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That looks very nice and so OK. 
So how did you get into the 

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radio business? 
You know, I, that's not my was 

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never my intention to be in 
media, but around 2018-2019, you

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know, we're both from the United
States. 

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So like, you know, before 2017, 
China was not really even in the

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media. 
And when it was, it was like, 

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oh, it's polluted and that's or 
pandas and that's all you heard 

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right. 
And then 2017, 18, the US media 

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turned just 180 on China and 
everything China was bad. 

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All of a sudden, I was shocked 
by this, you know, as an 

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American living in China, 
because a lot of this stuff, 

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almost all of the stuff that I 
saw in the media was completely 

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false or highly inaccurate or 
just used a grain of truth to 

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just talk about all these other 
weird accusations. 

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And so I was like, whoa, whoa, 
whoa. 

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I want to say why that's not 
true. 

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So I started going onto social 
media and saying, you know, 

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making videos in China. 
Actually I was in Chinese social

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media at 1st and saying, hey, 
you know, I appreciate you. 

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I'm sorry that US is saying this
stuff and it got really popular.

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And then CGTN, which is a China 
Global Television News, a 

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network, it's a huge agency 
here. 

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It's the the largest English 
speaking television channel, 

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maybe the only real major 
English speaking television 

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channel, reached out to me and 
said, would you like to be on 

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TV? 
And I said no. 

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But then they were like, oh, we 
have radio. 

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And I was like, Oh yeah, that 
sounds great because there's CDT

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and radio, formerly CRI. 
And so actually I went to work 

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for CRI as a radio show host 
doing podcast the the Bridge to 

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China. 
And then I, I at that, just 

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before then, I sort of switched 
my media to the West and gone on

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X and all of these other 
platforms. 

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And so my, my social media 
personality on X, that's me. 

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I couldn't get away with that. 
If that was an official CGTN 

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platform. 
A lot of people say, oh, you say

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this stuff because you're paid 
by the CGTN. 

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Now the radio show is CGTN, but 
my comments on social media are 

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my comments. 
So all that crazy stuff, you 

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know, actually, I like you. 
You referred to yourself one 

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time six months ago or a year 
ago as a as a shit poster. 

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And I thought I always. 
Refer to myself as. 

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A shit poster. 
I saw that and I thought, oh, I 

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like that. 
You know, I want to run with 

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that because I don't I want to 
just be able to say anything. 

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I don't want to have to be 
really official and like very 

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formal and like stick to the 
rules. 

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I just wanted to just go crazy. 
And I thought when you, when I 

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saw you post that, I thought 
that's my model for how I'm 

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going to be. 
And I, I, I really have just, 

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you know, call out BS online 
about China. 

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And it's easy for me because 
people will say, well, China's 

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like this. 
I can walk outside in Beijing 

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and film and show that it's not 
like that. 

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So it's easy for me to win a lot
of these arguments because 

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people will say, well, this is 
what China's like. 

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And I can literally just go like
5 minutes down, down stairs and 

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start filming and show why 
that's not true. 

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And so that you know, that's. 
People will and people will say 

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if China is great, why don't you
go live in? 

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China. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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I get that every single day. 
And you're like, I'm in Beijing.

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Right. 
Yeah. 

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It's so strange. 
Yeah. 

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It was really made straight. 
Go ahead, go ahead. 

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Go. 
No, no, no. 

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Go ahead, Go ahead. 
What makes it strange is that X 

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has this new find where you are 
location thing. 

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And because, you know, we use 
VPNs in China, Sometimes I'm in 

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Finland, sometimes I'm in 
Macedonia, and it moves around. 

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So different times when people 
click on my X account, they say 

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you're in the United States, 
you're lying about living in 

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China or you're in Macedonia, 
you're lying about it. 

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It's it's there is no China 
option. 

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So X does not have the technical
capability to tell where people 

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actually are. 
So that's been really 

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frustrating. 
I'm currently based in Bali. 

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I have been living here since 
the pandemic and now some people

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use that as a gotcha. 
It's like, ah, you are 

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Indonesia. 
Why are you talking about China?

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I'm like, people do travel 
around, you know, Chinese people

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do get around, they, they travel
around the world. 

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You know, I've been, I also been
living in the United States for 

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almost 30 years. 
And so, but, but people, people 

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just assume I'm some sort of 
Chinese bot. 

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So I have to tell people I'm the
latest generation Chinese AI. 

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That's very realistic. 
How so? 

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How's you know, you know, 
obviously you have settled in 

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your life in Beijing. 
Has the kind of the downturn in 

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the Sino American relationship 
affect you in, you know, your 

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everyday living in China? 
You know, not really. 

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People are still very friendly. 
When I got here, I was, I was 

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very curious as an American, 
what do Chinese people think of 

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America, right. 
So I asked around and at that 

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time, 2012 to 2016, everyone was
like, oh, we look up to America.

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You know, we want to, you know, 
develop like America. 

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People were very open, you know,
they owe to my American friend 

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after Trump's initiated his 
first trade war 2017. 

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Like people we're still like, we
like America, but we don't like 

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this trade war, you know. 
So people in China are really 

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friendly. 
I mean, I'm sure that there are 

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like outlier people who are 
really upset about it. 

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Maybe they they were exporters 
and it hurt them or something. 

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But the general person on the 
street is very friendly to 

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foreigners of all kinds. 
Wherever you're from, you're 

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from Kazakhstan, great. 
You're from England, great. 

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You're from US, great. 
You know, like, so it's, you 

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know, my daily life is really 
nice. 

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People are really polite and 
nice to me. 

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Nothing's really changed. 
Actually, I would say if 

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anything, what's happened is 
from the period 10 years ago to 

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now, China has become safer. 
My own thinking about this is 

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that it's because there's a lot 
more prosperity. 

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You know, people who used to be 
impoverished are less less 

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likely to be impoverished today.
People who made less money 

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before make more money today. 
You know, the infrastructure is 

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great. 
So I think people are just, you 

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know, because there's 
prosperity, because there's a 

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lack of poverty like there used 
to be. 

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I go outside and I feel safer 
than ever. 

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You know, when I first moved to 
China, I was like, OK, you know,

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I still need to keep my guard up
a little maybe. 

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And I don't want to buy bike 
stolen. 

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I need to lock it up. 
Like I was in the US. 

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It didn't notice a massive 
difference. 

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But today, my gosh, like I could
just leave my bike in the middle

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of the the street. 
People will just leave it there,

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whatever, It doesn't matter. 
It's, it's so incredibly safe. 

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It's incredibly safe feeling at 
night, walking around anywhere 

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in any city, rural, urban, 
doesn't matter. 

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It's just so I would say over 
the same period of time, I've 

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actually just become more 
comfortable despite the trade 

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war. 
Hopefully, you know, that'll be 

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walked back a little bit. 
There were some agreements made 

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recently when President Xi and 
President Trump met. 

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And I'm hoping that the 
relationship can get back on 

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track a little bit, become more 
normalized. 

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Yeah, I mean, that's my hope 
too. 

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I'm I'm a Chinese American. 
You know, for me, I have always 

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hope had hope to see a better 
relationship between the two 

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countries because especially for
me that that would be good for 

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me and my family. 
But unfortunately, you know, 

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things hasn't hasn't turned out 
so rosy for the last eight, 7-8 

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years. 
But you know what you mentioned 

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about the safety issue, You 
know, I've seen so many videos 

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online of like people leaving 
cell phone or laptop, a coffee 

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like Starbucks in China and then
come back and it's still there. 

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I actually experienced that 
myself. 

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I was in Shanghai a couple 
months ago and I left my Xiaomi 

225
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:28,480
phone charging in a like a 
Community Center, you know, in a

226
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,640
residential compound where my 
friend lived. 

227
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,640
And then I, I, I totally forgot.
I, I, we, we wandered off for 

228
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,520
like 2 hours and I'm like, 
where's my phone? 

229
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,760
And I'm like, oh wait, I left it
charging at a Community Center. 

230
00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,520
We went back, the phone was 
still there, but I have to say 

231
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,360
that was not the case back in 
1980s when I, I lived in China, 

232
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,280
but back then that that phone 
will be gone, It'll be long 

233
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,480
gone. 
So I think I agree with you. 

234
00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,240
I think it's part of the, the, 
the prosperity, the general 

235
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,080
prosperity. 
Now people are generally don't 

236
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,560
need to do that. 
And and also they there's, 

237
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,240
there's also, you know, a lot of
things also got better. 

238
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,280
General etiquette is getting is 
developing like in 1980s. 

239
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,880
I can tell you there's no such 
thing as keowing. 

240
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,880
There's no such thing as lining 
up. 

241
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:28,280
I mean, like I like, because I 
remember one time just back, 

242
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,720
back in, in my days to make a 
phone call to my dad who was 

243
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,560
studying for PhD in United 
States. 

244
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,840
Might we didn't have a phone in 
our in our apartment. 

245
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:44,480
So we actually have to travel to
downtown Fengqing to get to go 

246
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,560
to like a China post office or 
something that where the heck we

247
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,920
can, we can do international 
calls, right, right. 

248
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,000
So, so, so it's a whole day 
trip. 

249
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,160
On the way back, we have to 
catch a bus to go back home. 

250
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,120
And I remember it was during 
rush hour. 

251
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:02,400
The bus comes and the whole 
before there was some kind of 

252
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,440
semi line and but when the bus 
as soon as a bus door open, the 

253
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:11,280
crowd just like swore the bus 
and and there's like some young 

254
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,640
guys like 20 something, they 
will climb through the window 

255
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,120
open when yeah, me and my my 
mom's like, oh, OK, my God, 

256
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,320
there's no way we could get out 
that bus. 

257
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,720
Let's just walk. 
We have to walk. 

258
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,280
Like several. 
Blocks to the next bus stop to 

259
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,000
catch a a different bus. 
But that was kind of the 

260
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,800
experience in the 1980s. 
I was pleasantly surprised when 

261
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,720
I went back to China in 2019, 
just before the pandemic. 

262
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,560
That's I think when I first 
noticed about the behavior 

263
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,680
change. 
I was like, wow, people actually

264
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,640
stopping at the red light. 
You know, people actually have 

265
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,640
made the signals there today, 
you know, rather than treating 

266
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,800
it as like a, you know, a mere 
suggestion. 

267
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,560
So, so I think people, some 
people attribute that to the 

268
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,000
prevalence of cameras. 
May, I mean, maybe plays part of

269
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,400
it, but I generally appreciate 
the change. 

270
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,320
You know, I appreciate that 
things are getting nicer now 

271
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,560
and, and safer and very, very 
safe. 

272
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,960
You know, people, I don't know 
what your experience, but from 

273
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,440
my my experience in China is 
that I don't feel, yes, there 

274
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,200
are a lot of cameras, but I 
don't feel like a lot of people 

275
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,080
really care about it. 
They they, they see camera as 

276
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,560
like safety, provide safety. 
Yeah. 

277
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,600
Because I I me too. 
Because I remember, yeah, 

278
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,600
because I remember walking out 
long trails in the Great Wall, 

279
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,400
like really kind of secluded 
part of Great Wall. 

280
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,240
They have cameras along the 
trail and, and, and, and for a 

281
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,200
lot of Chinese people, that's, 
that's safety. 

282
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,640
That's, you know, like they, 
they know they will be safe even

283
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,400
there alone walking a trail in 
the in the wild Great Wall. 

284
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:55,960
Yeah. 
So I think that there's that, 

285
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,600
there's that. 
So there's just a lot of very 

286
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,120
different perceptions because I 
think what what it is is when 

287
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,600
people talk about China, you 
know, from the West in 

288
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,320
particular, a lot of times 
they're not really talking about

289
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,240
China. 
They're talking about a 

290
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,960
projection in their mind of like
their own worst fears about 

291
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,440
their own society. 
So, you know, rather than the 

292
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,960
real China that existed out 
there, you know, I think, I 

293
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,400
think this is sometimes it's 
kind of frustrating. 

294
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,080
I I understand it must be 
frustrating for you try to kind 

295
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,760
of, you know, convey what China 
is really like. 

296
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:34,840
You know what it's not? 
It's not just that it's 

297
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,040
frustrating, it's that there is,
it seems to be deliberate 

298
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,560
disinformation, whether it's 
from state actors or from 

299
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,160
individuals who are just full of
hate. 

300
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,360
Wherever it's coming from, 
there's a lot of disinformation 

301
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,160
like the social credit score 
thing. 

302
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,280
This is actually outside of my 
home. 

303
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,800
There is a camera. 
I noticed yesterday. 

304
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,440
It is a bunch of cameras and one
of them points straight at the 

305
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,000
road. 
And one of the things I read 

306
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,360
this morning when I woke up 
under one of my tweets was, oh, 

307
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,240
if you jaywalk, your social 
credit score goes down. 

308
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,359
So I'm going to set up my camera
on a tripod outside and I'm 

309
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,800
going to walk back and forth 
across the street numerous times

310
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,680
like to show that, you know, it 
doesn't affect me in any kind of

311
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,400
way because there is something 
called a social credit score. 

312
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,960
That's what's confusing in 
China, they have multiple credit

313
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,079
score systems and one of them is
called a social credit score. 

314
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,800
But actually it's for your 
credit. 

315
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,840
It's like not dissimilar from 
AUS credit system. 

316
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,360
So if you take a loan and you 
don't pay it, guess what, you 

317
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,640
have difficulty getting another 
loan, same as the the US. 

318
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,280
But if you jaywalk or like, I 
don't know, post something about

319
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,720
Winnie the Pooh online or 
whatever the lie is right now, 

320
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,840
nothing happens to you. 
There's I've even read people 

321
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,000
say like, oh, because this 
person jaywalked when they went 

322
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,560
to the store, they couldn't buy 
milk because they have to pay 

323
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,720
with their face. 
And there's so many like little 

324
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,840
tiny pieces of things that are 
accurate that it can be 

325
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,520
confusing to someone who doesn't
understand. 

326
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,880
For example, if you choose to, 
you can set up facial payment at

327
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,920
a lot of stores so you could 
actually pay for your groceries.

328
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,680
But that's not what people do. 
People use their phone and QR 

329
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,120
codes. 
But like that, the idea that 

330
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,920
something in your behavior is 
going to prevent you from buying

331
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,480
food or prevent you from getting
into your home is insane. 

332
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,440
It's completely ludicrous. 
Nothing like that exists. 

333
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,360
I could jaywalk all day long. 
I could probably spend 12 hours 

334
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:34,400
jaywalking back and forth. 
Nothing. 

335
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,600
No credit system is going to 
notice that. 

336
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,520
It doesn't matter, the police 
won't even notice, they'll 

337
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,840
probably just think there's 
someone completely out of their 

338
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,840
mind if they do notice that the 
guy walking back and forth on 

339
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,840
the little bubble or something. 
Like actually I don't think 

340
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,040
anyone even watches the cameras,
not even AI. 

341
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,000
The people who have. 
No no. 

342
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,800
This is interesting. 
I want to point this out because

343
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,080
I wanted Full disclosure. 
People do have things like can't

344
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,600
stay in a five star hotel, can't
take high speed rail, can't take

345
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,560
first class airplanes, can't 
have a passport to go abroad. 

346
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,760
Those people are called frauds 
and they have scammed people out

347
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,560
of millions of RMB. 
Have have they? 

348
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,920
Maybe they haven't paid 50 
employees at their factory or 

349
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,040
something. 
That also didn't happen by a 

350
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:19,240
app. 
It wasn't like AI made that 

351
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,680
decision. 
They were brought before a 

352
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,840
judge. 
The judge said, hey, you have, 

353
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,200
you know, you owe 9 million RMB 
to your employees that you 

354
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,840
haven't paid for three months. 
Guess what, we're going to, you 

355
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,080
can't leave the country because 
you may have embezzled that 

356
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,320
money and hid it in the Cayman 
Islands. 

357
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,640
We don't want you to just go 
there and live a happy life. 

358
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,040
You have to stay here and these 
are your limitations until you 

359
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,160
pay that debt back. 
And that those people, you can 

360
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,840
actually also, because they, 
I've seen this, they've, oh, I 

361
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,600
found them on an app, all the 
people with low social social 

362
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:51,000
credit scores. 
Yes, there are in fact apps 

363
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,400
where you can find people who 
have are fraudulent scammers. 

364
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,480
And it's like Megan's Law in 
California. 

365
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,480
You're from California, right? 
So in California we have a law 

366
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,320
called Megan's Law. 
And for these people who are 

367
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,800
pedophiles? 
They, you can find them on 

368
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,200
Megan's Law in your 
neighborhood. 

369
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,560
So you can make sure, hey, I 
don't want my kids playing over 

370
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,080
there, right? 
So they have an app for that In 

371
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,160
China, there is an app to find 
people with The Who are 

372
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,760
fraudulent scammers. 
And it's to make sure that you 

373
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000
don't go into business with them
not knowing Full disclosure, 

374
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,640
this person owes 20 million RMB 
because they did they, you know,

375
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,240
they were scamming other people,
but that that's it. 

376
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,800
It doesn't affect normal people.
Grandma, you know, walking 

377
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,240
across the street in the wrong 
place or saying something to her

378
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,400
neighbor about not liking some 
government policy doesn't affect

379
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,120
anything at all. 
And that's one of the things I 

380
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,080
find most frustrating. 
People find little tiny things 

381
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,880
that are true, like, oh, their 
facial recognition can be used 

382
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,320
to pay groceries, and they mix 
it with a pack of lies, and then

383
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,440
they try to sell it to people. 
Like that's what China's like 

384
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,280
when it's nothing like that. 
And that's really frustrating. 

385
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,960
That that's why I tell people 
seeing is believing just come to

386
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,640
China and see for yourself. 
You know, I, I was travelling 

387
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,720
with a South African guy germs, 
you know, so I, I just took him 

388
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,960
on a bicycle ride. 
We got those rideshare bikes. 

389
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,520
You know where you stand your 
with Alipay QR code and then you

390
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,320
can rent it for like a 1.5 RMB 
for next hour. 

391
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,400
So we, we were riding around 
Shanghai and we're waiting at 

392
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,240
the, the, the, the stop. 
Like you see, you see those two 

393
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,600
guys just drove their scooter 
without helmet, right? 

394
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,640
And like right did, did a, did a
total illegal, illegal turn on 

395
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,880
the red. 
You see that, you know, like, 

396
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,200
you know, you use the West. 
They will think they'll be ZAB 

397
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,160
or something like because this 
is not on camera and social 

398
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,720
credit. 
But no, let that that still 

399
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,240
happens. 
You know, unfortunately there's 

400
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,760
still rule Breakers. 
You know, very. 

401
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,360
Late rule Breakers. 
And, you know, it's not, yeah, 

402
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,760
that that social credit dystopia
stuff, you know, it's, yeah. 

403
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,520
So there's a lot of projection, 
I guess. 

404
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,280
I think there are a lot of 
surveillances in the West. 

405
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,080
So This is why I tried to tell 
people, look, yeah, they're 

406
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,960
cameras in China. 
Yes, they're equally among. 

407
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,480
There's just as many cameras in 
City of London, right. 

408
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,200
And guess what? 
At least in China, you're safe. 

409
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,480
You have all the cameras, you're
still not safe. 

410
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,640
But yeah, that's the difference.
You know, that's a really good 

411
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,560
point. 
A lot of people say, oh, the 

412
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,080
reason people don't when I I 
post, oh, China is one of the 

413
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,960
safest places in the world. 
I put statistics up. 

414
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,240
People say, oh, that's just 
because there's cameras 

415
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,760
everywhere. 
And actually your response that,

416
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,120
hey, London's also filled with 
an insane amount of cameras, but

417
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,080
there are stabbings and, you 
know, people are robbed in broad

418
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,880
daylight or in the in the subway
systems. 

419
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,440
It's clearly not just because of
the cameras. 

420
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,080
There's something else going on.
I think it is, you know, no 

421
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,240
offense to the UK or the United 
States, They are very developed 

422
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,920
countries, but in a in a lot of 
ways, it's becoming harder for 

423
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,120
their middle class in these 
developed countries. 

424
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,920
In the United States, people are
struggling, people are living 

425
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,720
paycheck to paycheck and you 
know, rent is out, you know, 

426
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,280
inflation, all these things. 
So it actually creates 

427
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,760
criminality. 
That's where criminals come 

428
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,880
from. 
Criminals come from need, and in

429
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,760
China, there is still need. 
You know, there's still some 

430
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560
degree of poverty in some rural 
areas that it needs to be 

431
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,160
corrected and is being 
corrected. 

432
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,760
But the difference is they're 
better off today than they were 

433
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,440
five years ago or 10 years ago 
or 20 years ago. 

434
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,080
And so there's a feeling of 
upward mobility here in China. 

435
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,920
That is a very good point 
because I have experienced that 

436
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,040
myself. 
You know, I lived in China in 

437
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,800
1980s, as I often tell people, 
you know, I, I live in a times 

438
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,680
when, you know, we need ration 
papers to buy everything, right?

439
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,880
Cooking oil to like, to like 
rise to close. 

440
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,920
And, and, and I saw that, you 
know, gradually that was being 

441
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,920
phased out and there were plenty
of goods in the market. 

442
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,480
You can, yes, you can. 
You can buy as long as you have 

443
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,560
money, you know, whereas you 
know, back in the days that you 

444
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,200
have to go line up at the 
designated government stores 

445
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,680
with ration papers. 
You know, there, there used to 

446
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,720
be such a thing called 
friendship stores where they 

447
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,120
will sell imported goods, 
foreign goods. 

448
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,920
And you cannot even use, you 
cannot even buy with R&B the 

449
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,320
Chinese money. 
You have to have like what they 

450
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,720
call the foreign exchange 
certificate. 

451
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,000
And you want to get the foreign 
exchange certificate. 

452
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,200
If you take like a hard 
currency, like foreign currency,

453
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,880
go to the People's Bank of China
to trade it in for R&B and then 

454
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,720
they give you the the French, 
the foreign currency exchange 

455
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,160
certificate. 
And with that then you will be 

456
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,360
able to purchase imported 
foreign goods. 

457
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,840
There's one like 1980s but but, 
but you know that soon changed 

458
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,280
goes to the come 1990s two 
thousand and everything is made 

459
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,120
in China anyway. 
So, you know, you don't need, 

460
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,280
you don't need to buy imported 
goods anymore unless, you know, 

461
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,280
you really want to buy like 
that, that Ferrari or so or 

462
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,200
Porsche or something. 
Yeah. 

463
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,760
You know, you mentioned another 
thing that really makes life 

464
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,360
convenient here and a lot of 
people get frustrated, you know,

465
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,920
economists in the West like, oh,
China's inflation is, you know, 

466
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,080
only like .8 if you take out 
electricity and food. 

467
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,640
So it's it's very slow. 
That's great. 

468
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,560
You know, my wife, I love her to
death, but she has bought and 

469
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,840
I'm not exaggerating, something 
like 10 purses in the last month

470
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,040
because she just, I suddenly 
just went, I had won all these 

471
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,880
purses and she's ordering purses
and sending them back, but 

472
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,640
keeping some of them. 
And the thing about it is 

473
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,680
everything's made in China. 
So I'm like, Oh my gosh, that 

474
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,240
purse looks really expensive. 
How much is it? 

475
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,720
60 RMB, which is like less than 
10 bucks. 

476
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,120
And it's like something that 
would cost hundreds in the 

477
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,520
United States, you know, because
of tariffs and because of 

478
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,280
profiteers and middle men and 
stores and whatever. 

479
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,600
So like we get amazing deals 
living in China. 

480
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,960
So, you know, if you want to buy
a laptop or whatever, you can 

481
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,280
get everything like way less 
expensive than in the West. 

482
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,160
It's one of the perks of living 
in China. 

483
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,440
It's just like so they make so 
much stuff. 

484
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,240
Yeah, everything, everything 
price at least double S when 

485
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,560
they leave China. 
Like I, I know because I just 

486
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,480
bought a Chinese EV here in 
Indonesia and I know for the 

487
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,960
same brand, same spec of car in 
China, that car cost like like 

488
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,840
1/2 of what I've just paid, You 
know, just just because, you 

489
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,120
know, tariffs and, and like, and
the company could make a profit 

490
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,360
because there's less competition
for other Chinese EV makers. 

491
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,600
There's not that many brands 
here yet, whereas China they 

492
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,480
have insane amount of 
competition. 

493
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,120
So that, that competition keeps 
the price stop. 

494
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,880
And so, you know, it's, it's 
great time to be a Chinese 

495
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,400
consumer today. 
This is another thing I, I wish 

496
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,760
people understand is that China,
despite its very developed 

497
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,320
infrastructure, in many ways 
even surpassing the developed W,

498
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,000
the price is still very 
affordable. 

499
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,000
Like, like, like the hotel, 
especially hotels, like some 

500
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,680
very nice hotels that would cost
like go for like 4-5 hundred 

501
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,160
dollars in, in, in, in, in New 
York or Los Angeles in here. 

502
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,080
You can't, you know, it's like 
you, you go for like 10, that 

503
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520
price, maybe like 40 from 40 to 
$80. 

504
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,080
You can have. 
I mean, it's amazing. 

505
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:37,640
People. 
People should just talk to 

506
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:38,800
China. 
Yeah, go. 

507
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,600
Ahead Oh yeah, I Oh yeah. 
I, I mean, I don't, I, I'd like 

508
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,960
the I, I want people to come 
visit for a week or two and 

509
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,560
that's going to change a lot of 
minds. 

510
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760
And, you know, people who do are
going to go back home with a 

511
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,120
completely different 
perspective. 

512
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,120
But I think living here is also 
really would be helpful in some 

513
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,360
cases. 
You, you mentioned cars. 

514
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,760
I was also thinking about used 
internal combustion engines. 

515
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,480
Used ICE cars are so cheap. 
So like if you want to buy like 

516
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,400
a A5 year old Porsche in China, 
it costs like 10% of a new 

517
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,240
Porsche. 
So you go on these apps and 

518
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,080
what's what's happening is 
they're selling as many as they 

519
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,560
can in China. 
And then actually they're taking

520
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,080
all these used cars and shipping
them to other countries to sell 

521
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,920
used cars in those countries 
because you can't sell them for 

522
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,520
any real value in China anymore 
because everyone's switching to 

523
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,200
EVs. 
So you can go online and find 

524
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,920
like a Mercedes from five years 
ago and get it for 10% of the 

525
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,240
cost of a brand new Mercedes. 
And so, like, all these people 

526
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,880
who couldn't afford cars before,
like not only are they buying 

527
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,320
EVs, which are, you know, like 
more than half of all of the 

528
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,280
cars in China now, but like, 
they're also buying used ICE 

529
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,960
cars. 
And like, oh, I have a Mercedes 

530
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,880
now, but they're like, you know,
lower middle class. 

531
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,080
Nice. 
Yeah. 

532
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,240
That's really nice. 
I Yeah. 

533
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,720
I wish people really understood 
that. 

534
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:08,160
But you, you, you don't really 
get to experience it until you 

535
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,640
see it. 
You know, seeing is still 

536
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,720
believing. 
This is why I encourage anybody 

537
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,000
just travel to China. 
See for yourself. 

538
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,960
Even the China haters at least 
understand what you're hating. 

539
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,560
You know, like, like right now 
you're just hating A abstract. 

540
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,000
A abstract concept that only 
exists in your mind. 

541
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,560
Yeah. 
So you know what's really funny?

542
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040
The haters. 
I'm sorry, I drew real quick. 

543
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,040
The haters, actually, they film 
things that are not what they 

544
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,760
seem and then they show it as 
something else. 

545
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,040
There's a very famous video 
that's going around right now 

546
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440
that a lot of the people who 
dislike China are posting, 

547
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,160
trying to prove that there are 
homeless people in China. 

548
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,600
I'm sure that there are some 
homeless people in China, but 

549
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,800
it's very rare. 
But they show these videos of 

550
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,760
like people sleeping in front of
the train station, right? 

551
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,680
You know, in the 30 minutes or 
an hour before it opens in the 

552
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:59,160
morning. 
And they're like proof that 

553
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,600
China has homeless people. 
And it's like most people don't 

554
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,800
even look homeless. 
They're just like on a mat, like

555
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,680
kind of reading their phone like
it, you know, they were right in

556
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,120
front of a train station. 
Those people are clearly just 

557
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,360
waiting to get into the train 
station Or other examples. 

558
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,720
I'm sure you can find video of 
real homeless people in China. 

559
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,520
But you know, I live in Beijing.
As far as I know, when I visit, 

560
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,680
I travel around a lot. 
There's one guy I know of this 

561
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:32,480
for sure homeless one guy. 
So like, maybe there's somewhere

562
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,240
else or something, but you know,
I ride a bike, so I see 

563
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,320
everything, you know, I go 
through all kinds of different 

564
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,760
neighborhoods. 
There's one guy who's clearly 

565
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,000
has some kind of issue. 
He's completely unkempt and he 

566
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,960
plays the arhu with a can in 
front of him with a QR code on 

567
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,520
it. 
He's the only guy I know in all 

568
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,480
of Beijing that is for sure 
homeless. 

569
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,080
So like, yes, maybe homelessness
does exist, but the it's such an

570
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,400
outlier. 
That's like .000 whatever 

571
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,120
statistical phenomenon that 
these people are. 

572
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,000
You know, you go to San 
Francisco and you know, it's 

573
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,800
like homeless person, homeless 
person, homeless person, 

574
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,440
homeless person. 
It's not the same at all. 

575
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,880
So people who are clearly just, 
you know, I do, I want people 

576
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,120
who dislike China to come to 
China because I think it'll 

577
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,680
change a lot of minds. 
But for some people, they're 

578
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,720
just going to keep making up 
lies no matter what. 

579
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,480
Sure. 
Yeah. 

580
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,360
I think a lot of these lies are 
basically, you know, Copian, 

581
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,720
Copian and opium. 
Because as US is experiencing 

582
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,280
its own very serious structural 
problems, you know, as some 

583
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,680
people say, US is going to 
decline and as China rise, there

584
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,680
will be a lot of people who are 
trying to seek comfort in 

585
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,360
trying, trying to know all China
is just as bad. 

586
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,280
So like, like, like US may be 
bad, may be getting worse, but 

587
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,600
China is even worse, right that 
that. 

588
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,200
It's. 
I think it's that kind of 

589
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,840
mentality that kind of fuels all
these production of Copian that 

590
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,040
we see on social media. 
And and I think it's gonna get 

591
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,000
worse, you know, when US 
experiencing more problems, 

592
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,480
unfortunately. 
And yeah, yeah. 

593
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,440
The only, only I think the only 
way is for people to actually be

594
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,960
in China to see what it is for 
themselves and then to decide to

595
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,720
for themselves. 
This is, you know, what is 

596
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,160
really going on here. 
And it's and you know, it's 

597
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,280
slightly not not for Americans 
yet, but it's a lot easier for 

598
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,040
Europeans nowadays. 
You know many of these country 

599
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:42,200
already have 30 days visa free 
to visit to China. 

600
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,480
I think most European countries 
now now do. 

601
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,760
But unfortunately Americans 
still have to have to go go to 

602
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,800
the Chinese consulate to get a 
visa. 

603
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,080
But but I got my 10 year multi 
entry visa that's still valid 

604
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,760
until like 2029 so I'm good. 
Wow, Yeah, that's nice. 

605
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,760
Yeah, I I also want to point out
that I think that they I think 

606
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,720
the reason that U.S. citizens 
haven't been given the visa free

607
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,240
thing is because I mean, the 
reality you're a geopolitical 

608
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,160
analyst is that the United 
States meddles in the internal 

609
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,400
affairs of other countries. 
If China just gave blank checks 

610
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080
for people to come to China for 
30 days and from the United 

611
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,800
States, I think the concern is 
that American that the United 

612
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,760
States or the state government 
and whatever would use that as 

613
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,440
an opportunity to metal in 
China. 

614
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,600
So I think the United States 
sort of does did it to itself 

615
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,200
made it difficult for Americans 
to come to China. 

616
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,760
But I mean, it's actually also 
easier than ever before. 

617
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,360
Like it used to be you have to 
go to the the the consulate to 

618
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,160
apply and then you have to go to
back to the consulate to get the

619
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,120
visa. 
And you also had used to have to

620
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,880
book your hotels in advance and 
book your plane ticket in 

621
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,160
advance. 
Now you don't have to do any of 

622
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,960
that. 
Now you can apply online. 

623
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,280
You don't need a travel 
itinerary, you don't need a 

624
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,080
plan. 
You don't need any kind of weird

625
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,240
health check or anything. 
You just apply online. 

626
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,720
If you get approved, you go to 
the embassy one time to get your

627
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,000
visa. 
So it's still easier for 

628
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,600
Americans, but it's not just, 
like as easy for the other, you 

629
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,360
know, dozens of countries that 
can just come to China whenever 

630
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,480
they want. 
Yeah, yeah, but I, I, I, I just 

631
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,040
recommend the people who do have
the visa free privilege, you 

632
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,199
know, take advantage of it. 
Why not, you know, just yeah to 

633
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,120
visit. 
Totally. 

634
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,320
And and then China is, is such a
huge country. 

635
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,320
It actually has a lot to offer 
in terms of sightseeing for for 

636
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,120
traveler. 
Yeah, we're not sponsored by the

637
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,280
Chinese tourism board, by the 
way. 

638
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,280
Yeah. 
But we're we're just speaking 

639
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,000
from experience because I 
actually I'm go. 

640
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:52,800
Ahead. 
Go ahead. 

641
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,440
You go ahead. 
No, no, no. 

642
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,080
I keep on interrupting you. 
You're my no. 

643
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,560
No, no, OK, all right, fine. 
I, I was going to add to your 

644
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,280
point about like there's a lot 
to see. 

645
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,200
So you like city is great. 
Go to Shenzhen, right? 

646
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,600
You want to see the robots, you 
want to see flying cars and all 

647
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,640
that. 
Go to Shenzhen. 

648
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,160
If you want to see like the 
desert, you can got the, you can

649
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,280
go to the Gobi Desert or the 
Taklamakan Desert, the sea of 

650
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,720
death, you know, if that's your 
thing, if you want it rain 

651
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:19,000
forest, you can go to Sichuan, 
which also has pandas, you know,

652
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,600
and it also the cities that 
light up like Christmas trees, 

653
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:22,960
right? 
They're everywhere. 

654
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,320
So whichever city you're going 
to, you're probably going to run

655
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,080
into that Qingdao, Wuhan, 
Changsha, Shenzhen, Shanghai, 

656
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,360
even parts of downtown Beijing 
are like that now. 

657
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,160
So you're going to find that 
wherever you go, you or you want

658
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,440
to go and you want to see 
traditional like Chinese 

659
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,920
culture, You can go to like 
Xi'an or you can go to Dali and 

660
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,480
Yunnan, or you actually want to 
go to Shangri-La. 

661
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,360
Guess what, it exists. 
I actually been doing some 

662
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,960
research on it. 
There's a city called Shangri-La

663
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,680
in you none. 
And I was like, oh, is this the 

664
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,640
real Shangri-La? 
So I looked at the book that's 

665
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,240
written like 1937 and the 
there's a couple movies and 

666
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,760
they're actually talking about a
place that in the local Tibetan 

667
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,360
dialect. 
That's the name it's called like

668
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,040
the the Valley of the Moon and 
Sun. 

669
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,640
And that's actually Shangri-La. 
That's the translation. 

670
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,280
And so when they changed the 
name from from the Mandarin name

671
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,280
to Shangri-La, it was to 
reflect, yes, that there is this

672
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,760
Western obsession with this 
place called Shangri-La, but it 

673
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,400
was actually also the moniker of
the city that in the Tibetan 

674
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,640
local dialect for the city. 
So it is actually Shangri-La. 

675
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,200
So if you want to go to 
Shangri-La, it's here. 

676
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,760
So like, I mean, there's so many
different cool things to see. 

677
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,400
There's amazing little villages 
you can stay in. 

678
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,040
Like what is it called? 
Huangling village in Xiangxi. 

679
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,200
It is paradiseic. 
You will not want to leave. 

680
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,080
I, after I left, I just now, I 
don't think my life can ever be 

681
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,800
as satisfying knowing that that 
place is there. 

682
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,640
And I'm not like it's, there's 
so many places in China to see. 

683
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,800
And then you got beaches, you 
know, you can go to Sanya, you, 

684
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,840
you know, Sanya Island. 
And you also have that in Fuji, 

685
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,680
and you also have a lot of that 
in Guangdong. 

686
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,880
I mean, whatever kind of food 
you're into, you like spicy 

687
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,920
food, Sichuan, Chongqing, where 
you're from, like there's so 

688
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,800
many amazing places in China 
that whatever you're into, they 

689
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,400
have it. 
Yeah, people need to understand 

690
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,160
China is like US. 
It's a continental size country.

691
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:20,600
It it it it's has great variety 
and and it has a lot of 

692
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,280
different cultural variations. 
People should, should, should 

693
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,680
just come visit. 
Now, having said all of that, 

694
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,760
all everything, now I want to 
pick your brain a little bit, 

695
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:36,040
You know, what is your outlook 
for the future Sino American 

696
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,640
relationship? 
Now, obviously both of us wanted

697
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,480
to see the relationship improve,
but given the current 

698
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,920
trajectory, where do you do you 
see in the aftermath of she 

699
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,920
Trump meeting in Korea? 
You know, where do you think, 

700
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,760
where do you think it's going? 
This is such a complex question 

701
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,160
because I, I, I generally try 
not to tell the future, but I 

702
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,200
also do this to all my guests. 
So I ask, I have, like you, all 

703
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,600
these brilliant people like 
Warwick Powell and other 

704
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,200
economists onto my show and I 
ask them the same thing 

705
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,920
constantly. 
What I understand and what I 

706
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,560
think is that the United States 
is in fact trying to provoke a 

707
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,000
regional conflict in Asia. the 
United States is trying to use 

708
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,440
Japan, the Philippines and other
nations near China to create the

709
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,520
conditions for a regional 
conflict which would weaken Asia

710
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,280
and potentially continue to prop
up the Western, you know, LED 

711
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,840
order that's existed for the 
last several centuries and under

712
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,160
imperialism or whatever we want 
to call what's going on now, neo

713
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:48,240
colonialism, whatever it is. 
So, but I also think China is 

714
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,320
really playing the long game 
here. 

715
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,000
And China hasn't had a war like 
since 1979, a real full out war.

716
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,360
And that was one month. 
There have been some border 

717
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,840
skirmishes here and there with 
India, with the Philippines and 

718
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,160
stuff, but there hasn't been a 
major conflict. 

719
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,200
China's really just playing it 
out. 

720
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,160
If China can just wait 20 more 
years and not have any kind of 

721
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,160
military, major military 
conflict with anyone, the West 

722
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,440
will wither away. 
So we have our, I mean, not 

723
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,640
wither away, but be right sized 
in the international community. 

724
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,440
Because I mean, just look back 
in the 1990s, what major powers 

725
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,560
were there in the world? 
It was the Europe, the United 

726
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,840
States, maybe Japan. 
That's kind of it, that those 

727
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,280
were the big boys on the chess 
board. 

728
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,080
Today, it's not like that. 
I mean, this concept of 

729
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,880
multipolarity is real. 
Even though they can't stop the 

730
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,600
conflict in, in the Middle East,
you know, the war crimes that 

731
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,080
Israel's committing, there is 
still a multipolar world. 

732
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,000
I mean, Southeast Asia, ASEAN is
incredibly powerful in the in 

733
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,000
today's world and, and Japan 
continues to be, although that 

734
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,480
has its own economic problems. 
South Korea, China, India is 

735
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,280
even starting to really rise up 
now. 

736
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,320
There's a lot of development in 
some countries in Africa, the 

737
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Middle East, the Central Asia, 
South America, you know, it's 

738
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,360
not the imperial LED world to 
some extent. 

739
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,800
So if China really wants. 
To have the advantage. 

740
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,560
China's economy is still 
growing. 

741
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,280
And you know, everyone said, oh,
China is going to grow at 4.2%. 

742
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,040
Then it was upgraded to 4.6%. 
Then it was upgraded to 4.8%. 

743
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,440
Now it's upgraded by Goldman 
Sachs at forecast to 5%. 

744
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,080
I still think it's going to be 
5.2. 

745
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,800
I've been saying that the entire
year from the beginning. 

746
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,640
I'm right. 
And I mean, time has proven that

747
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,440
I'm right. 
And every year I've been more, 

748
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,560
what's the word, bullish on 
China and every year I've been 

749
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,800
proven correct because China 
really has this ambition to grow

750
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:45,720
at 4.7 GDP growth rate from 2020
to 2035 and it needs to maintain

751
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,360
at least 5% for the next few 
years in order to make that 

752
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,760
happen. 
That's part of the common 

753
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,160
prosperity campaign. 
When China says we're doing 

754
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,080
something, they mean that's 
what's going to happen. 

755
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,440
All of their five year plans and
10 year plans, they always come 

756
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,280
to fruition because China will, 
you know, move the gears around 

757
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,800
it's a planned economy. 
You know, a lot of it is you 

758
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,440
have a, you have a free economy,
you have a vibrant market 

759
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,080
economy, but you also have a 
planned economy working in 

760
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,840
tandem. 
And when China says we're going 

761
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:17,240
to double GDP from 2020 to 2035,
GDP for the entire country by 

762
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:20,640
growing at 4.7% every year, that
means it's going to happen. 

763
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,200
So what my point is in, in this 
context, the fact that China is 

764
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:29,360
growing at 5%, maybe more this 
year and probably at least 4.7 

765
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,360
or 4.8, I think it's going to be
more like 4.9 next year, means 

766
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,000
that the United States economy 
is still only growing at about 

767
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,200
around 2%. 
So China's growing at more than 

768
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,440
double the United States and a 
lot of other Western allies of 

769
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,520
the United States and Eastern 
allies are in decline and 

770
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,920
they're actually economies are 
contracting or close to 

771
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,200
contracting, are barely growing 
at all and they're 

772
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,560
financialized. 
So that really means it probably

773
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,080
is contracting in their real 
economies. 

774
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:04,280
So if China wants to, you know, 
rejoin all of its provinces, it 

775
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,200
would be much easier to do that 
through diplomacy and waiting 

776
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,880
because if a regional conflict 
occurs, the United States goal 

777
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,600
will be to use a Ukraine like 
situation to destroy not just 

778
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,760
China, but all of his allies 
over here too. the United States

779
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,440
isn't thinking like, hey, we're 
going to back you Japan, you're 

780
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,840
going to be more powerful. the 
United States really and the 

781
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,880
realpolitik secret circles are 
thinking we'll use Japan and 

782
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,400
China to destroy each other and 
then we'll be able to walk 

783
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,200
through and take over everything
in Asia. 

784
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,640
So this is not in the interest 
of Japan. 

785
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,120
It's not in the interest of the 
Philippines. 

786
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,400
It's not in the interest of 
China. 

787
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,360
All the region has to do, the 
most prosperous region, region, 

788
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,560
the most peaceful region in the 
world and has been for decades, 

789
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,280
is stay peaceful for the next 
decade or two. 

790
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,480
And all of the European powers 
in the United States will just 

791
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,600
become less relevant. 
And I think that is the play 

792
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,720
that they should go. 
But what's going to happen? 

793
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,960
I can't answer that question. 
What options are on the table? 

794
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,400
You know, like it can there be a
major conflict? 

795
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,800
the United States might try to 
create false flags and all of 

796
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,920
these, you know, situations to 
create conflict. 

797
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,000
So it's possible that that could
happen. 

798
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,200
But really all China needs to do
is what it's doing now. 

799
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,800
Just sit back, watch the West 
slowly become less relevant. 

800
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,720
So I mean, no one can tell the 
future, but you can see what 

801
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,440
what's on the table, what might 
happen. 

802
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,000
Yeah, I I think I agree with 
you. 

803
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,080
The time time is on China's 
side. 

804
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,760
You know, China can afford to 
wait out US, you know, given the

805
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,560
US current trajectory, it's 
besetted by a lot of domestic 

806
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:47,160
problems and, and even and in 
the I think we are slowly 

807
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,920
finally reaching a boiling 
point, you know, like maybe not 

808
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,720
boiling over yet, but we're 
getting there. 

809
00:43:55,720 --> 00:44:00,080
You know, you have seen, you 
know, even Trump's own support 

810
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,480
base, MAGA is essentially having
a civil war right now. 

811
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,760
So China just need to, you know,
do what China does best, which 

812
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,320
is to grow its own prosperity. 
By doing so, China's relative 

813
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,720
strength will strengthen year 
after year vis A vis United 

814
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,280
States. 
And, and so far, I think China 

815
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,000
is on the on the right path. 
I don't think China will be very

816
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,080
easily baited into a war in East
Asia because China, you know, 

817
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,760
Chinese leadership, not, they're
not stupid, right? 

818
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:35,040
They, they, they understand what
the intentions of the Washington

819
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,600
is. 
And you know, they, they, they 

820
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,680
have been, and they have a long 
tradition of strategic heritage 

821
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,960
that, you know, they, they 
thousands of years. 

822
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,880
They, they have, you know, they,
they, they see, they have seen 

823
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:54,400
the, the playbook, you know, 
they, so, so I, I, I, I, I, I'm 

824
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,200
not too worried about a major 
war breaking out in East Asia, 

825
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,200
at least in the immediate 
future, you know, in 20 years, 

826
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,320
who knows? 
But I, I think for next 5-10 

827
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,800
years, I, you know, I think 
we're just going to witnessing 

828
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:15,000
more of the same, which is the 
steady progress of China itself,

829
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,640
a more regional integration 
China with, particularly with 

830
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,720
ASEAN countries, you know, as, 
as a regional supply chain 

831
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:32,760
getting further integrated, you 
know, tie anchored with the 

832
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,040
Chinese market in the, in the 
middle. 

833
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,480
I think, I think that that's, 
that's what's going to happen. 

834
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,360
I mean, this is the whole point 
of China building the Belden Rd.

835
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,800
project, right? 
I mean, it's to build global 

836
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,720
connectivity points, but all 
these connected points all 

837
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:52,720
connects to China, and it makes 
China the center of this new 

838
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:56,520
network power. 
This is something that US has 

839
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:02,280
been trying to sabotage, but 
with without much success 

840
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,080
because ultimately China is 
bringing money to the table and 

841
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,040
US is not offering the 
alternatives. 

842
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,880
You know, like the US is like, 
OK, the best I can do is 

843
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,680
military bases and some Typhoon 
missiles. 

844
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:22,120
But but people, but countries, 
yeah, globally needs development

845
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,080
and, and, and infrastructure 
much more. 

846
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,080
So, you know, so, so China is 
winning on that front. 

847
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,120
So I, I, I, I, I agree with your
assessment. 

848
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:39,960
And what but, but, but, but, but
back to the China, US, China 

849
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,320
relationship though. 
Like do you think there could be

850
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,760
a return quote UN quote to 
normalcy sometimes in the 

851
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,720
future? 
You know, I have to think, I 

852
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,800
have to say I, I used to be less
optimistic than am I? 

853
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,520
I am now. 
There's a man teaches at 

854
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,160
Princeton University, assistant 
professor. 

855
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,520
His name is Kyle Chan. 
And the fact that he even works 

856
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,600
at the Rand Corporation gives me
hope because this man, he really

857
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:08,760
wants. 
Yeah. 

858
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,920
Just the fact that he works 
there at all makes me think, oh,

859
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,440
there are sane people in the 
echo chamber, you know, like 

860
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,760
Mitch Presnick teaches at 
Harvard and Kyle Chan teaches at

861
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,520
Princeton University. 
And there's a few other, you 

862
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,560
know, sane people in the United 
States who are in positions to 

863
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,120
influence policy. 
Unfortunately, none of them are 

864
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,400
in in politics. 
You know, these are real 

865
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,480
academic people. 
They're just studying the 

866
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,160
numbers and the economy and how 
it can work that, you know, no 

867
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,440
offense. 
I'm not trying to insult them. 

868
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,200
I'm trying to compliment them. 
They are nerds. 

869
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,720
So they, you know, they're just 
people who are erudite and read 

870
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:45,120
a lot and study a lot and 
they're like, this is the best 

871
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,000
possible future. 
Let's go that direction. 

872
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,240
And both of these gentlemen and 
other people like them want to 

873
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:54,520
see better economic integration,
which would be in the which 

874
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,480
would be advantageous to the 
United States. 

875
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,840
For example, there is a factory 
in Ohio that was created with a 

876
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,120
Chinese company called Lomi. 
And it's, I can't remember the, 

877
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,240
the, the American name of the 
company, but they make solar 

878
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:14,000
panels and they hired US workers
using Chinese technology with 

879
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,480
Chinese and American investment 
and a joint venture to make 

880
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,480
solar by Americans in America 
for America. 

881
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,920
And that is the kind of thing 
that the United States could 

882
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,040
benefit from. 
You know what, I, I, I actually 

883
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,960
really think this, you know, 
I'm, I'm just saying hope 

884
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:34,080
optimistically, we could see 
greater economic integration. 

885
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,520
And you know, at, at there's 
some point Japanese factories 

886
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,840
came to the United States and it
was, it was great for the United

887
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,160
States. 
It created a lot of jobs. 

888
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,240
And then we, we're at the point 
where Chinese technology is the 

889
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,360
best in the world. 
And I know there are people who 

890
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:47,640
disagree with that. 
They're wrong. 

891
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,120
So if we could get Chinese 
technology built in America by 

892
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,280
Americans for America, that 
would be advantageous for the 

893
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,240
United States because it's not 
just buying products make made 

894
00:48:57,240 --> 00:48:59,840
in China, which is also 
advantageous for the United 

895
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,160
States because cheap goods like.
So actually there are a lot of 

896
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,040
ways that the United States and 
China complement one another. 

897
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,840
the United States is a highly 
financialized institution and 

898
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,560
the dollar remains pre eminent 
for now. 

899
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,960
So as the United, as long as the
United States wants to continue 

900
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:17,760
to buy products from China, it 
can. 

901
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,600
And that's to the advantage of 
US consumers. 

902
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,120
And building factories in the 
United States isn't working 

903
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,720
without China. 
But guess what? 

904
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,320
If China came in, China are the 
world experts on how to build 

905
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,680
factories. 
So like we could build 

906
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,000
factories. 
I mean, if it's about like, oh, 

907
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,360
we don't want them to own land 
or oh, we don't want them too 

908
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,560
close to US base, fine. 
Why can't we have special 

909
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,960
economic zones? 
That's what we should have. 

910
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,440
We should have two or three 
special economic zones near 

911
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,480
ports in the United States, not 
just for China, for any 

912
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,800
companies around the world who 
want to come and hire American 

913
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,080
workers to make things in 
America, for America, or even 

914
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,600
for export. 
I guarantee you Chinese 

915
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,320
companies would line up for 
that. 

916
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,080
There would be tons of 
investment. 

917
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,480
We'd be talking about 10s of 
billions of dollars being poured

918
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,120
into the United States year 
after year after year after year

919
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,120
after year to build in the 
United States and hire American 

920
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,880
workers. 
You know, so there are these 

921
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,800
voices who say things like this.
I hope that's what happens. 

922
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,640
But unfortunately, America is a 
game of political football and 

923
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,200
whoever's making the decisions 
isn't making the decisions for 

924
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,320
very long. 
And so I'm not really. 

925
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,200
I don't know what the United 
States is gonna do. 

926
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,920
Is Trump. 
Are Trump and XI in April when 

927
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,400
they meet in China, gonna make a
better deal? 

928
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,120
I think so. 
My own feeling is that Trump is 

929
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,640
the kind of person who wants to 
be a winner, and that's how he 

930
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,800
sees himself. 
He sees himself as a winner. 

931
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,120
And if he can sit down, the two 
most powerful leaders in the 

932
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,120
world can sit down and make a 
deal that's advantageous for 

933
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,920
both countries. 
Trump wants to walk out of China

934
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,440
saying, oh, my best friend, 
President Xi and I just made 

935
00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:59,920
this great deal. 
It's going to be great for 

936
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,800
America. 
And it can't just be on paper. 

937
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,960
He needs a win because the trade
war has been going so badly for 

938
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,560
the United States. 
So if Trump could walk out of 

939
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,200
Beijing with a deal that helps 
America, I think he wants to do 

940
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,600
that. 
So hopefully Besant is setting 

941
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,960
the, you know, situation up for 
that. 

942
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Unfortunately, you have people 
like Rubio who are in the in the

943
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,840
administration and they are very
hawkish on China. 

944
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:32,120
So it's a mixed bag really. 
Yeah, I think I, I don't think 

945
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,160
the, the US will change its 
trajectory easily. 

946
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,520
I mean, I, I'm, but I, I agree 
with you. 

947
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,320
There is a little bit of vibe 
shift already. 

948
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,800
You are seeing some part of the 
elite are starting to recognize 

949
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:50,640
that China is a peer that cannot
be pushed around anymore. 

950
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:57,080
And I think that maybe, maybe 
we'll take a whole generation 

951
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,840
for United States to go through 
the, you know, whatever it needs

952
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,760
to go through to resolve its own
domestic problems. 

953
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,440
Because a lot of these blaming 
China, anti China stuff come 

954
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:16,800
from ultimately the own, the EU 
s s own weakness, The, the, the,

955
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,200
the, the, the domestic 
structural problems, the real 

956
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,680
structural problem that's 
affecting U.S. economy. 

957
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,840
And I, I think as long as these 
won't be resolved, there will 

958
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,080
always be tensions in the US 
China relationship. 

959
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,280
And, you know, I expect this 
might, it might take a whole 

960
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,480
generation to fix United States.
You know, like, like this is a 

961
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,840
long term project. 
It's not going to be done in 

962
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,880
next four years or, or, or five 
years or even 10 years. 

963
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:54,520
This could usually be like a 25 
years, 30-40 year project to fix

964
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,720
United States. 
And, and, and so, so if that 

965
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:03,520
does happen, I think there could
be, you know, US and China can 

966
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:09,520
be back on right footing, so to 
speak, to have a normal 

967
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,200
relationship between normal 
countries. 

968
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,880
You know, one of the problem is 
I think US is not a normal 

969
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,840
country right now. 
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it

970
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,640
needs, it's needs to cure of its
sickness. 

971
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,600
And, and once that happens, you 
can deal with China on a more 

972
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,600
confident, more confident place.
And, you know, a lot, lot of the

973
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:40,520
lot of these anger, anxiety and 
fear is really derived from 

974
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,520
ultimately the American 
weakness. 

975
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,920
I think, you know, once that 
that that thing is getting 

976
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,520
resolved, I think two countries 
will be fine. 

977
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:56,160
So I, I, I, I unfortunately, I 
think China is the rational 

978
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,440
player here and and China has 
been, you know, playing this 

979
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,960
game very patiently, just 
continue to grow its own 

980
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,320
strength. 
Now China's not seeking to you 

981
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,720
replace United States as a 
global hedge amount as many 

982
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,040
people fear that China just want
to build a better China be the 

983
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,360
best China that that China can 
be. 

984
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,840
States could learn from China. 
You know, if if US just invest 

985
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,360
on itself, focus on its internal
development, you know, you will 

986
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,400
being a much healthier place 
and, and you know, you know, if 

987
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,960
you really, really us really 
want to compete with China, it 

988
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,960
needs to fix itself. 
It needs to look internally, not

989
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,480
not looking to try to handicap 
China's progress. 

990
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,960
You know, like the Tonya Harden 
approach of recapping your 

991
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,600
competitor. 
But but but really focus on your

992
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,240
own skills sets to to develop 
your invest in your home, own 

993
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:53,800
human capital. 
And then, you know, then there 

994
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:59,200
will be more a chance or equal 
chance, But you know, you, you, 

995
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:03,160
you require people to take the 
long approach, the long term 

996
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,520
approach. 
You know, one of the 

997
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,040
unfortunately one of the problem
in the US is like, everything is

998
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,520
kind of very short term 
oriented, right? 

999
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,280
So all about quarterly earning 
reports and the next election 

1000
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,280
cycle. 
So that's one of the thing that 

1001
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:22,080
needs to be ironed out as well. 
So I I expect this to be a long 

1002
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:26,720
term generational project to fix
USI think, I think once that's 

1003
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,040
done, the US and China can have 
a healthy, normal relationship. 

1004
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:32,720
Yeah, I think that's a really 
good point. 

1005
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,920
I mean, I also think that, you 
know, the UK used to was 

1006
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,960
formerly the world power. 
The United States became the 

1007
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,440
world power following that 
cycle. 

1008
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:48,640
And what's really interesting is
about the UK was special in that

1009
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,520
it was sort of like, oh, you're 
going to be the new real world 

1010
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:53,200
power. 
You're my best buddy. 

1011
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,680
And, you know, I think that was 
an interesting strategy. 

1012
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,800
I think the United States has an
interesting opportunity to see 

1013
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,600
if, you know, it's obvious to 
anyone who actually knows the 

1014
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,080
facts, not the people who are 
just making stuff up and lying 

1015
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,120
about the reality of the 
situation, that China is going 

1016
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,880
to be the major economy for the 
next century. 

1017
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,240
So if the United States really 
wants to benefit and, you know, 

1018
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,920
the short, mid and long term, 
hitching its boat to the China 

1019
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:25,880
is actually a really good idea. 
I Yeah, I hope, I hope you know 

1020
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,640
from. 
From your words to to the God's 

1021
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,800
mouth, you know, I hope, I hope 
some people in Washington, you 

1022
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:37,720
know, can finally get come to 
their senses, you know? 

1023
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:38,920
Maybe. 
Maybe. 

1024
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:45,480
If anybody's watching our show, 
make sure people take Jason's 

1025
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:51,440
words to the relevant people. 
But really, I, I think I, I, you

1026
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,520
know, 100% agree with you. 
You know, you're fascinated. 

1027
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,280
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

1028
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,080
No. 
No, I was just going to say it's

1029
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:01,680
really interesting. 
That the United States has 

1030
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,840
chosen this really bizarre 
framework because I think this 

1031
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,080
has to do with game theory. 
Honestly, I think I'm gonna 

1032
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,960
blame game theory. 
Like the whole idea in the West 

1033
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,200
is that everything is a game. 
Everyone wants to win and this 

1034
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,280
is the objectives. 
And I think that, you know, 

1035
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,360
we've you know, John Mearsheimer
argument that's been going 

1036
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,360
around, right? 
The John. 

1037
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,320
Mearsheimer China wants to rule 
the world. 

1038
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,960
Because everyone wants to rule 
the world. 

1039
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:26,920
This is not a Tears For Fears 
song, guys. 

1040
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,360
This is the world. 
And China has 1000 years. 

1041
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,600
Jeffrey Sachs just pointed out 
China has 1000 years of not 

1042
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,280
invading its neighbors, you 
know, 10 centuries of not 

1043
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,400
invading its neighbors. 
And then, you know, actually 

1044
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,640
China is actually an introvert 
for a lot of that. 

1045
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,360
It's like, we don't want to even
want to trade with you. 

1046
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,600
You know, when the trade 
ambassador showed up to China, 

1047
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,840
China was like, you know, we're 
just not into that right now. 

1048
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,400
Like we're doing our own thing. 
China is not eager to take over 

1049
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,360
the world. 
You know, China, like you said, 

1050
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,200
wants to develop itself and make
itself very prosperous. 

1051
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:57,960
That's its goal. 
That is its goal. 

1052
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,160
So what we need to do is rethink
in DC and, you know, and 

1053
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,560
Langley, what is China's goal? 
China is China's goal is not 

1054
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,240
world domination. 
China's goal is to become the 

1055
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,760
most, you know, prosperous 
version of itself that it can be

1056
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,240
and fulfill, you know, thousands
of years of that goal of having 

1057
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,720
everyone be really prosperous 
and successful. 

1058
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,440
And the idea that the United 
States is surrounding China with

1059
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,440
all these bases and China's 
going to break out any moment is

1060
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,920
kind of crazy. 
Really. 

1061
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,240
It's like, you know, the bully 
at school. 

1062
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,240
School is like that kid is 
working out. 

1063
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:32,840
They're going to become the next
bully. 

1064
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,720
Everyone we're going to form a 
gang and surround them and 

1065
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,720
they're just working out. 
It's like just because they're 

1066
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:40,480
working out doesn't mean they 
want to fight. 

1067
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,840
Like it's, it's, it's really 
kind of crazy. 

1068
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:45,920
Yeah. 
I I think. 

1069
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,880
I think maybe hopefully they 
can't get into their heads that 

1070
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,200
United States does not have to 
be a global hedge fund to be a 

1071
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:59,040
successful country because USUS 
has US is very secure. 

1072
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,440
It has two oceans as its 
borders. 

1073
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:07,560
You know it, it's not, it's not 
facing any imminent invasions 

1074
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,480
threat from anyone. 
And so it, it can't afford to 

1075
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,400
develop itself. 
And, and you know, like, like, 

1076
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,720
like as this example that you 
gave UK, it gave up its empire. 

1077
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:23,320
But the British people, people 
are living far better today than

1078
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,200
they were under the British 
imperial days. 

1079
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,440
You know, that can still happen 
that that can still happen for 

1080
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,920
for Americans, you know, it's 
still a real possibility for 

1081
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,760
United States. 
It just require you to give up 

1082
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,520
this kind of 0 sum mindset. 
And there's this kind of the the

1083
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:45,840
world domination mental bug, But
you know, that will take time. 

1084
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,800
That will take time. 
So hopefully, hopefully we'll, 

1085
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:53,280
we'll we'll we'll be we'll still
be around to win this change. 

1086
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,480
But I, I really enjoy having 
this conversation with you, 

1087
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:58,880
Jason. 
Likewise, you know, we could 

1088
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,880
yeah, then we could talk about 
this for for hours. 

1089
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,720
But but anyway, this is an 
ongoing story still evolving. 

1090
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,240
And you know, we'll probably, I 
would like to have invite you 

1091
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:15,240
back in the future, you know, 
probably before the XI Trump 

1092
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,960
visit. 
In Beijing and and just to to 

1093
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,240
kind of geek out on this because
US China relationship really is 

1094
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:26,360
the most important bilateral 
relationship in the world right 

1095
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,360
now and and and for the future 
so you know it's you know and 

1096
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:37,040
this is I can geek out geek out 
on this for hours but it's been 

1097
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,400
fun for people who want to 
follow you Jason where would 

1098
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,760
they go well if you're on X 
it's. 

1099
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,200
Shengguan Tia one that's going 
to be difficult to to find. 

1100
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:49,520
Yeah. 
Or just spell if you're 

1101
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:51,280
American. 
But if you just want to find my 

1102
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,400
podcast, you can find the Bridge
to China podcast and type in the

1103
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,080
Bridge to China podcast and 
Google will pop right up. 

1104
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:03,760
That's a great name, by the way.
And I thank you, thank you for 

1105
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,440
making the time to to, to be on 
my show. 

1106
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,800
We'd love to have you back on 
our podcast, too. 

1107
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,800
So we'll be reaching out as 
well, anytime, any time. 

1108
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,200
I love to talk, man. 
If you did notice, so for for 

1109
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,880
people who've been watching. 
The show thank you for. 

1110
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,480
Tuning in until next time, bye 
bye.