1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,440 It's not in academia anymore, and I think that 2025 was the 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:04,200 inflection year. What? 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,800 Happened in 2025. The money flowing into Quantum 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,240 has grown 5 or 6 fold from about 2 billion to above 10 billion. 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,960 But it only takes one commercial case study, one with the whole 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,080 the whole sector moves. HSBC was September 2025 and they 7 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:22,480 reported something like 30 plus percent improvement. 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,120 And if you were their competitor, you'd have to follow 9 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,560 because you can't. Otherwise you will be left 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,680 behind. Bass line. 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,520 The bass line is designed to create an emotional response. 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:48,920 I've seen things you won't believe. 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,960 I'll start with an easy bit. Why the dedicated funds are 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,000 being set up is because of the flow of money, inflow of money 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,160 and particularly 2025 was a critical year for for quantum. 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,920 First it was 100th anniversary of quantum mechanics which was 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,680 then the year was called the year of Quantum. 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,920 But coincidentally the money flown into quantum has grown 5 19 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,280 or 6 fold from about 2 billion in 2024 to above 10 billion. 20 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,760 Hence, of course, the interest from investors who see that 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,360 there is money coming in and also there is industry 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,960 consolidation, some acquisitions, for example by 23 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:35,360 INQ. So that's easy. 24 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,200 Then in terms of why Quantum is exciting, again, you've 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,640 mentioned IBM and according to IBMCEO, he's saying that Quantum 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,480 is genuinely first innovation in computing since 1945, because 27 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,800 previously everything was based on bits. 28 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,800 And now the possibilities when you use smaller particles like 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,880 atoms or artificial atoms are exponentially, hence the name in 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,360 quantum exponential are exponentially larger because 31 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:11,400 that allows you some extraordinary new capabilities. 32 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,600 So it's not to say that so components of a quantum machine 33 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,400 is not any different to a component to your traditional, 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,280 traditional computer. So you still have opted 35 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,840 electronics, photonics, lasers, even, you know, cryostats, 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,040 everything that I have been using in my PhD 25 years ago in 37 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,240 laboratory is was there at the time. 38 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,040 But it's how you put those things together and how do you 39 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,200 create those complex algorithms which could attack previously 40 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,920 unsolvable problems. So that means, so there are two 41 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:51,160 types of problems that quantum is specifically good at and they 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,800 are the, you know, the high value, high value applications. 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,080 So the first one is optimization and optimization, of course, can 44 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,920 be optimization of anything. The classical problem is the 45 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,320 travelling salesman optimization. 46 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,400 So travel and salesman route find the best, perhaps not the 47 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,560 best, but fairly good optimal, several optimal routes to get 48 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,720 from A to B and it could be a physical or packets of data 49 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,640 etcetera. So you can optimise that. 50 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:24,560 But it found its way into finance where there are a big 51 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:30,600 revenue ready to be optimised such as you know bid offer 52 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,360 spreads in portfolios like HSBC has shown. 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,520 So optimization is an important, an important algorithm that 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,680 quantum could do potentially better than classical computer. 55 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,880 And 2nd is simulation, simulation of anything that is a 56 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,040 quantum body, which means anything to do with molecules or 57 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,920 atoms or electrons in it. So hence again, you could you 58 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,760 could use it in different industries, you could use it in 59 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,440 energy, you could use it in chemicals. 60 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,560 But so far, healthcare and the pharmaceuticals seem to be the 61 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,480 the applications which are being explored the most because that 62 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,560 is where the biggest R&D budget is available to be optimised. 63 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,920 And here you have potential utilisation revenue enhancement, 64 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,600 so to grow your revenue as well as to reduce costs. 65 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:28,000 So for example, if you use it for molecular optimization, it 66 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,600 can work in conjunction with an AI. 67 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,760 For example, you're trying to understand a protein or a gene 68 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,720 which is responsible for a particular disease. 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,520 And then the task which quantum computer can do very well is how 70 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,440 do you design A molecule which attacks that specific gene or 71 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,720 target have a spike in that particular place out of millions 72 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,400 and millions of different combinations. 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,920 And quantum computer being the quantum system itself can solve 74 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,760 this very efficiently. So again, components by itself 75 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,920 is not faster, but certain type of tasks it can do much faster. 76 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,360 And it's not to say that it's going to be everywhere. 77 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,040 It's not going to be probably in your mobile phone anytime soon. 78 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,840 Because probably, you know, you could do it much faster with, 79 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,000 with your normal Linux computer. And if you can do it with a 80 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,000 classical computer fast do it because you know, it's, it's 81 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,480 very sophisticated devices with, you know, billions of, of 82 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,360 computational units in each, in each CPU or GPU. 83 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,720 So you can do it with a classical, do it with classical, 84 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,600 but there are some big, big value tasks which are better 85 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,640 addressed in theory with classical. 86 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,600 That's where research is going to, and that's where you have 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,920 emerging new case studies. Where? 88 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:46,600 Where have we seen objective, unarguable success or movement 89 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,440 of the state-of-the-art? Yeah, based on quantum. 90 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,320 So you have something what people call quantum advantage 91 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:59,680 and that's when you are, you have a useful task which is 92 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,160 better, more cost efficient, more cost efficiently performed 93 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,160 on a quantum computer as opposed to a more sophisticated 94 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,360 classical computer. And again, talking about IBM who 95 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:15,440 arguably are the leaders in the space, 2026 is designated As for 96 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,840 them by them not designated, but they say quantum advantage is 97 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:23,320 2026. So again, I've mentioned that 98 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,760 there was a big flood of money into Quantum in 2025 and that's 99 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:32,000 because those commercial case studies have started to appear. 100 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:38,120 So HSBCI think that was September, September 2025 when 101 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,480 they've optimised the fixed income portfolio bit bit of a 102 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,240 spread and they reported something like 30 plus percent 103 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,920 improvement on that algorithm they used on IBM machine. 104 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,160 And then before that was modern, I think in July, which also, if 105 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,920 I'm correct, used IBM machine to say that they they were able to 106 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,120 use it for the, for the next Amarna vaccine. 107 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,920 And of course, I mean, it's, it's a big, big industry. 108 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,480 And that would be the perfect application where quantum 109 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440 computer is suited for because it's exponentially improved the 110 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,440 capability of modelling those molecules. 111 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,200 Before that, again, I think AstraZeneca used Continuum 112 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,400 machine for, for similar application for, for designing 113 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,560 new molecules. And so that's the healthcare 114 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,200 applications. There were also some big cases 115 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,000 in finance or HSBC already mentioned that optimization 116 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,640 task. And of course, at the beginning 117 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:39,120 you mentioned that security or encryption is, is a potential 118 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,400 potential opportunity. And that probably is the most, 119 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,200 the highest profile use case for quantum computer where people 120 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,200 are saying that perhaps 25% of bitcoins are not safe. 121 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,040 And because you can, you can now target the public encryption, 122 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,120 public encryption key and perhaps the possibility of that 123 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,560 happening within next five years is maybe 30%. 124 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,240 And by the way, it's moving, it's increasing, increasing 125 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,480 specifically last month's Google announced that they need 126 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,120 significantly less number of logical qubits to crack that 127 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,880 encryption. And so you have on the one hand, 128 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,800 improvement on the software side where you need less and less 129 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,720 logical qubits to crack the security key. 130 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,880 On the other hand, you have improvement on hardware where 131 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,520 you have more and more of those logical qubits available. 132 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,280 And at some stage that will merge and that public encryption 133 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,880 key would be no longer safe. So hence you need to do 134 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,880 something today. And today you already have teams 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,919 at large financial institutions who do exactly that. 136 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:43,760 So trying to protect, protect their data for the day when it 137 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,200 happens or in fact design how to use quantum for other 138 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,400 applications. So for example, we have a lot of 139 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,960 cases of financial services using it for fraud detection. 140 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,240 So you had some, I don't want to name the clients, but it's the 141 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,400 some credit card companies using that, some big financial 142 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,240 institution using it for a loan for example optimization as I 143 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,840 said, HSBC public. So I can say that for the 144 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:13,960 portfolio optimization etcetera. When when you're looking at 145 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:19,880 start-ups, what, what are you using to determine whether 146 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:27,560 start-ups within the quantum field are have the potential to 147 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:29,520 grow? When when you talk, this feels 148 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:35,440 very much like a back to the IBM suite, traditional IBM suite 149 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:40,720 spot of highly centralised proprietary investments, which 150 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:46,120 are extremely expensive to buy and run to create competitive 151 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:52,040 advantage from now when I look at the, you know, growth of the 152 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,480 ecosystem around AI that is diametrically opposed to that 153 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,920 architecture, the AI companies, these small companies are very 154 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,040 low cost entry point, very low initial capital. 155 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,560 You know, anybody can kind of, you know, pull in the, you know, 156 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:09,840 cloud code, start building around a open LLM. 157 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,240 You know, AI start up thing can happen quickly and cheaply. 158 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,760 The quantum world feels like actually you're looking at 10s 159 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,640 of millions to enter that world. You know what what? 160 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,440 Where are the innovations happening in this area? 161 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,640 Yeah. So if you compare it to AI, 162 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,960 you'll probably have to rewind back about five years before the 163 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,200 charge of PT moment to compare where you are today with 164 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,880 quantum. So it is the situation where you 165 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,720 still have build up of hardware and the hardware battles going 166 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,520 on as it happened in hardware, in in computing before, in AI 167 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,840 before. And you have competing ways to 168 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,040 create a quantum computer because it's possible to make it 169 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,960 out of electrons, out of photons, out of trapped ions, 170 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,000 neutral atoms, artificial atoms, etcetera. 171 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,960 And nobody can tell you today exactly which will be the win in 172 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,400 modality. So there is a battle of those 173 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,800 different modalities. Is that a little bit like 174 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,960 looking for the NVIDIA of Quantum? 175 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Exactly. It's like NVIDIA competing with 176 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,960 AMD at the same time as there is a build up capacity at, you 177 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,840 know, TSMC to satisfy that. And by the way, there is a lot 178 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,920 of fight going on in AI space. But at the same time, I think 179 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,840 the last figure I saw was seven and a half, $150 billion being 180 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,960 spent by the hyperscalers on the infrastructure. 181 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,960 So that is still going on as well because somehow you still 182 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:40,520 need to satisfy those, the demand for those, the physical 183 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,760 demands for to run those algorithms on something. 184 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,600 So today first of all, you have the battle in, in terms of 185 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,600 different hardware modalities and they all have pluses and 186 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,080 minuses. So some of them are faster. 187 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:56,400 So some of them are faster, some of them are more precise, some 188 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,800 of them travel better, travel better. 189 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,280 So that means that they would potentially used for potentially 190 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,880 could be used for different applications. 191 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,080 So some of them would be where you'd need speed against where 192 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,920 you probably value precision more. 193 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,200 So it it may actually not happen that it will be 1 winning 194 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,520 modality. It could be different winning 195 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,120 modalities, branching out and finding the end user. 196 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,040 What? What are the current industry 197 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,200 leading modalities that exist? So the current again, if you 198 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:29,640 look at the flow of money into into quantum hardware, the 199 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,160 biggest modality that has gotten most money, I think it dropped 200 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,440 irons. It's the one which is pioneer, 201 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,680 not Pioneer used by INQ and Continuum. 202 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,680 And incidentally, INQ is the largest publicly traded quantum 203 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:49,680 computing company today and Continuum which is part of 204 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:54,400 Honeywell, Honeywell has filed for an IPO. 205 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,960 So continue maybe come into the market later to the this year 206 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,520 again and it could be larger than IMQ again, same modality. 207 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,320 And if you look at the flow, flow of money into modalities, I 208 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,680 think last year Tropetans got something like 4 billion out of 209 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,800 10 plus. And then you get again the 210 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,080 figures I've just recently seen from McKinsey. 211 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,680 So I think Tropetans was 4 billion and then I think you had 212 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,080 two billion each from superconducting modality and 213 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,680 photonic modality. So I would say those 3 and in 214 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:29,280 terms of the public, as I said publicly listed companies as 215 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,200 trap times. So trap times are very good in 216 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,040 fidelity. So typically those companies 217 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,680 report industry leading fidelity numbers 3 nines or target 4 218 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:47,080 nines. And on the other hand, you have 219 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,400 very strong camp and of course old camp with IBM and Google who 220 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:57,360 are doing the superconducting modality and they are below. 221 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,840 So they're behind trap time in terms of fidelity, but they're 222 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,520 way ahead in terms of the speed. So for example, if it was a 223 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,160 computer, you'd be talking about megahertz speed on a 224 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,720 superconducting modality against kHz speed at the trap time 225 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,520 modality. So hence I'm saying if you need 226 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,080 speed, perhaps superconducting is is your way, but also the 227 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,880 other, the other one, the third one is as I say, which got also 228 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,240 more than 2 billion of inflows was the photonic modality. 229 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,360 Photonic is based on photons which are very well, very well 230 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,320 suited for fibre optic networks around the world. 231 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,480 So hence perhaps that's the way for the connectivity going 232 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,080 forward. But again, this is my personal 233 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,960 opinion and everybody has their own opinion. 234 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,320 But again, judging by pros and cons and the amount of money 235 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,920 those three are probably go in a little bit ahead of the others. 236 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,480 But there are others as well. I mean IB Ms. been on Quantum 237 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,560 for several decades. They have, you know. 238 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,240 I remember the Ginni Rometty days where it was blockchain 239 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,960 quantum, you know, AI with Watson. 240 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,600 I mean, what? Why? 241 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,600 I mean, IBM have a lot more than two to four billion to spend on 242 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:06,680 Quantum. Yeah. 243 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,960 So. So maybe the flow of money isn't 244 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:15,320 the ultimate determiner of modality success. 245 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:21,880 These these new models, are they emerging and overtaking existing 246 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,920 architectural ideas or like it? It feels as though there's no 247 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,760 clear understanding of the the structure which is going to 248 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:31,960 quote UN quote. Win. 249 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,000 Yeah. Well, I'm sure IBM and NVIDIA 250 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,160 and Google and pretty much every other larger large company which 251 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,760 is involved in AI or computing are looking at the development 252 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,520 and quantum. But there is no need to act yet 253 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,280 from their point of view. Because again, to put it in 254 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,120 perspective, NVIDIA, the market cap of NVIDIA is something like 255 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,760 3 or 400 times larger than that of the largest publicly traded 256 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,680 company, which is IMQ, which means with their with their 257 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,800 shares, they can buy a hundred of those companies. 258 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,760 So there is no need to do that yet. 259 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,080 Although, you know, we had quite significant appreciation and the 260 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,800 share prices of quantum computing companies, but they're 261 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,000 still tiny and there are many different modalities battling. 262 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,800 So in a way, you can wait a little and see which one is 263 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,000 emerging as the one which is perhaps the most promising and 264 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,720 then acquire. So what you have today is the 265 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,920 vertical acquisition by some place like for example, INQ, 266 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,560 which is publicly listed, as I say, largest publicly listed 267 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,160 quantum computing companies who could use their shares to 268 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,520 acquire pretty much anything. And I think they've made 269 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,640 something like 7 acquisitions. Importantly, they acquired 270 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,440 Oxford Ionics, which is the also trap time modality, which is 271 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:57,120 which is Auk company and that that has the technology which is 272 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,560 similar to what INQ had. But I guess acquisition points 273 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,920 that perhaps it was a valuable technology that they wanted to 274 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,160 have, but they also have an acquiring vertically like for 275 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:13,160 example the the the manufacturer so that. 276 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,119 Vertical integration is such a hot topic right now. 277 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,839 When you look at what I mean SpaceX XAI, you know what's 278 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:25,480 happening in terms of vertical integrated technology, like from 279 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:30,200 the coding itself all the way up to, you know, physical spaceship 280 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,720 infrastructure. That business model of hyper 281 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,200 consolidation and vertical integration seems to be like the 282 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:44,040 global trend for the late twenty 20s to own a tightly vertically 283 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,200 integrated stack from software development all the way through 284 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,400 to physical delivery. Quantum is maybe following that 285 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,160 playbook to try and create like exponential competitive 286 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,600 advantage by beyond all the monitor the supply chain all the 287 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,360 way through to the delivery of the, you know, computational 288 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:06,120 outcome of the system. Yeah, another, I guess, similar 289 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,720 development in the past could have been, you know, Apple 290 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,760 against Microsoft and Intel. So 1 is a little bit like a 291 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,120 closed wall garden. The other one is open 292 00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:16,840 architecture. So like in quantum companies, 293 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,720 some of them are opening up, like IBM, for example. 294 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,240 They're very much looking to work with all the developers and 295 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,760 what they're interested in is building the applications 296 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,480 because without applications, those quantum computers are 297 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,600 just, you know, useless pieces of hardware. 298 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,520 So you need to build an application layer. 299 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,720 You don't have to acquire those. You can open up your systems for 300 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,240 access like IBM have done, and they're given, for example, free 301 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,680 credits for the developers. And then of course, they charge 302 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,320 also if it's getting to the to the point that it's becoming 303 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,080 heavy use. And in fact, they have generated 304 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,120 significant revenue from from that, from quantum. 305 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,440 So that's one way and you could build applications around your 306 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,440 hardware and hoping that there will be a killer app among them. 307 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,560 And if there is some adjusting technology in even in hardware, 308 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,440 you could always acquire it using your shares or you could 309 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,320 you could vertically integrate like some companies may prefer 310 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,760 to do. They don't open their their 311 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,160 systems to others. They just try to buy everything 312 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,800 around them and build, build a business like that. 313 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:25,880 So again, I don't know which one is the better way, but the both, 314 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,200 both are happening. It feels to me like both, both, 315 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,040 both are happening. And especially for those larger 316 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,680 quantum computing companies which believe that they are the 317 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,840 leaders in the particular modality. 318 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,520 I think then I'll get into the stage that they're building the 319 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,160 application layer and pretty much all of them are interested 320 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,680 in in applications perhaps more than hardware. 321 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:45,800 And of course they're watching the competitors when they're 322 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,800 coming up. And if there is something even 323 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,920 in different modality, we have a case one company at least 324 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,800 they're quite another modality and now do the dual track 325 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,800 development. So I mean, when it comes to your 326 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,960 investment thesis, are you getting in early and capturing 327 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,840 those acquisitions, but you know, to double your fund in 328 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,480 four years would suggest something a bit more 329 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,840 significant. Are you like where are you 330 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,160 focused specifically in terms of putting capital, deploying 331 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,240 capital? Yeah, we backed companies at 332 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,560 early stage and the the fund that has doubled in value is 333 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:28,680 typically seed or even pre seed investments and we've backed 334 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,200 those three different modalities. 335 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,000 So we have we have superconducting, we have 336 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,600 photonic and we have trap time. So we are not even making the 337 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,800 bet because I guess it's too risky at this stage. 338 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,480 And then we have also sensing and communications and 339 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,320 components like Quantico for example, is a most recent 340 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,360 acquisition as a component to de risk it further. 341 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,720 So because if you are investing in one modality, one company, 342 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,040 you're not sure that you're not sure about the timing of those 343 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,560 scalable deployment of quantum computers and you're not on top 344 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,440 of that you're not sure that that's going to be the winning 345 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,120 modality that's kind of double s your risk. 346 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,360 So it makes sense to do it as a portfolio. 347 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,080 And as a portfolio, as I say, we have three different modalities 348 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,000 which seem to be the ones which are attracted most capital at 349 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,000 least last year, but we invested in them before that. 350 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,160 We invested from 2022 to 2023 in those companies. 351 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,320 And then we also have as a diversifier, let's call it 352 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,560 sensing communications and components. 353 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,040 And it's not that a diversifier in in that sense. 354 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,720 I mean they are, but we invested in them because it's also an 355 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,160 interesting market. It may be smaller than quantum 356 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,520 computer and less prominent, but it's near a term revenue. 357 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,680 So as a near term, I mean one of our sensing companies already 358 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,520 have a device which which is ready to be trialled or it's a, 359 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,640 it's a medical device. So you have to you have to get 360 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,960 approval, but you can see the device. 361 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,680 When I, I did, I had a little look at your portfolio and I had 362 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,160 a look at the, this, the theme of where capital is being 363 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,920 deployed in quantum I. And, and when I've looked at the 364 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:08,000 way IT has become, you know, a geopolitical lever, certainly 365 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,720 over the last few years, AI, quantum, you know, these are 366 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,720 becoming utilities, you know, organizational and country level 367 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560 utilities. And those utilities can be 368 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,680 applied across, you know, sovereign agriculture for the 369 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,000 development of fertilizers to create, you know, optimised food 370 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000 production that can be used across, you know, industry, 371 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,640 defence, pharmaceuticals, healthcare, you know, is there 372 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:42,680 is there a is, is quantum entering an era where 373 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,800 computational capability is as close to countries and sovereign 374 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,320 as organisations? You know, I know I've seen the 375 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,480 UK government commit to a billion pounds of building 376 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:59,320 quantum infrastructure within the UKI feel as though AI 377 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,720 quantum, they're going to become pseudo components of 378 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,360 governmental control or organization of countries. 379 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,560 That's what we're looking at here, Kirill, I believe. 380 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,920 Well, there are some aspects of, of quantum computing in 381 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,440 particular and communications to a degree that is dual use, that 382 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,480 means defence and also the security component. 383 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,560 So that is how do you protect against the future hacking of 384 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,560 your data or even what's going on today, which is called 385 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,480 harvest now, decrypt later, which is happening. 386 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,200 So that's of course, if it is, it's critical because if you can 387 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,000 crack the security key, which is behind all your client data, all 388 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,760 your transactions, this is invaluable. 389 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,720 And it's invaluable on a state level. 390 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,360 Likewise, if you look at sensing, even for sensing there 391 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,000 is very important field called PNT position navigation and 392 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,560 timing. That's for example, how do you 393 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,640 find your geolocation in case of GPS denial, GPS signal denial, 394 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,560 of course, very important for for military. 395 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,080 So yes, it is it's important. I would say commercial 396 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,360 applications are bigger because those you know, if you just look 397 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,600 at again, McKinsey data, potential value at risk for just 398 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,080 finance and Healthcare is something like a trillion. 399 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,520 And that's more than, you know, more than for example, UKMOD 400 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,880 budget, which which you always have to fight for. 401 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,920 But defence has always been the earliest adopter of most 402 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,920 exciting technological innovations like mobile phones 403 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,120 or like Internet. So typically you would have 404 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,280 either defence grants or defence contract to develop the 405 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,440 technology and then it gets rolled out commercially. 406 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,040 So you're still at the stage where it's earlier. 407 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,760 So there are important, there's a big importance of the defence 408 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,280 and national national budgets. And by the way, that's why this 409 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,280 announcement from the UK is so important because UK have 410 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,160 announced 2 billion spent, including a billion for 411 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,000 procurement, including I think something 6 or 100 million 412 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,320 specifically for computing. They also have a bucket for 413 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,760 sensing and communications. And that's important because 414 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,240 that that means it's a government buying directly of 415 00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,120 directly from those companies. And even if it doesn't give you 416 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:27,560 a useful tool at the end, it will create an ecosystem, it 417 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,040 will attract jobs, it will create the workforce. 418 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,040 Let's take Howell Quantum cluster, where we are partners. 419 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,560 When the government announced the launch of that cluster, the 420 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,800 science minister said that this is a major initiative planning 421 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,360 to attract a billion of investments, create thousand of 422 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,200 jobs just at Howell Quantum cluster. 423 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,760 So just one place in Oxfordshire so significant overall for the 424 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,720 UK. It's important a report from a 425 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,760 report from Oxford economics last year. 426 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,760 So 20 February 2025 put the figures something like 200 427 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,360 billion benefit to the UK or 7% of the GDP by I don't remember 428 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:14,360 year 2035 or 2040. And also importantly, William 429 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:18,640 Hague actually who, who forwarded this report, they said 430 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,480 that this is EU KS race to lose because now we may have lost the 431 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,080 AI race, but in in quantum, we are the place in Europe with the 432 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,920 most quantum startups and only a second to the US at the moment. 433 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,840 So UK is doing a lot. But likewise, if you look at the 434 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,320 UK and US, they each probably spent something like $6 billion 435 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,680 maybe. But China alone is 15 billion 436 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,920 and China has now put quantum as part of their new five year plan 437 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,440 and five year plan. That means it will be 438 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,600 implemented across all the industries strategically. 439 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,240 And then we'll go for large projects like national, you 440 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 know, satellite quantum networks, for example. 441 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,760 But as I say, UK is announcing a lot of a lot of investments and 442 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,320 it's it's been one of the early adopters, early promoters of 443 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,360 quantum with its national quantum strategy already 2014 a 444 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,520 billion dedicated which was very, very early. 445 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,640 But that's led to our place today that we are the leaders in 446 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,640 Europe in terms of number of quantum start-ups. 447 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,640 And as I say that procurement is very, very important and the UK 448 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,680 government is doing excellent job in my opinion. 449 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,640 What? Why is it often said that it's 450 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,800 too early for quantum? This this idea of harvest and 451 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,640 decrypt later. There's a sense that something 452 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,840 big is coming, but it's too early now. 453 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,040 So harvest data decrypted later from from a the reality of the 454 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,440 technology perspective, even on some of my earlier baselines 455 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,520 with some of the leaders at IBM, some of the comments on there 456 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,520 were quite dismissive of the maturity of the technology in 457 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,280 terms of its predictability and stability. 458 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480 So, so one of the main issues that's been cited to me is that, 459 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,920 yes, we see these snapshots of amazing potential, but it's not 460 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,040 repeatable right now. Is it repeatable? 461 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600 Are we moving to repeatability within quantum or is it still 462 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,400 slightly unpredictable? I think I've seen figure that 463 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,200 there are more than 300 commercial use cases and it's 464 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,000 not small companies. So as I said in healthcare it's 465 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:32,480 likes of AstraZeneca, Moderna. So and they are reporting real 466 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,480 useful commercial case studies. In fact, narrative has changed a 467 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,400 lot last year, as I said, last year was quite an important year 468 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,360 for for quantum, not just because it was the year of 469 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,120 quantum, but because of those commercial case studies from 470 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520 large institutions that has come out. 471 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,960 And that was the reason why the funding has increased because as 472 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,640 you say, a very long time quantum was sometimes you know 473 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,960 three to five years ahead and suddenly they start started 474 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,240 popping in almost you know, quarter by quarter. 475 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,320 There is a big a big announcement and that means, you 476 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,680 know, if you have the probability of your encryption 477 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,800 key being broken within five years, if it's already 30%, you 478 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,120 actually have to do now up now. That's why those financial 479 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,400 institutions already have large teams working on those 480 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,640 encryptions. And if, for example, one of your 481 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,000 competitors in say vaccine business comes up with a new way 482 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,440 how they can come up with a molecule design cutting years of 483 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,080 the, you know, all the phase trials. 484 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,600 And if you are their competitor, you'd have to follow because you 485 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,960 can't otherwise you will be left behind. 486 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,240 And so it only takes one commercial case study when the 487 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,880 whole, the whole sector moves. So for example, Boeing is 488 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,720 working with IBM and announced and announced some results. 489 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,920 So of course, all their competitors like, you know, 490 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,480 Airbus, Lockheed Martin, they're looking at that. 491 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,360 And probably, you know, I don't know of course what's happening 492 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,320 everywhere, but you know, they, they also will be looking, will 493 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,080 be researching. And that's what brings money, 494 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,800 because that means R&D budget, it's mean people dedicated to 495 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,520 it. It's mean rather than the part 496 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,640 time, you know, one or two person teams, you'd have, you 497 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,800 know, 10/20/50 team dedicated to quantum working and it hands 498 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,000 purchasing, hands purchasing software, working on software, 499 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,640 purchasing the time on, on the quantum computers which are 500 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,920 available, etcetera. So I mean, that's, that's how it 501 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,160 happens. It's like, you know it, it's 502 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,200 probably going back to when we had those massive supercomputers 503 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,120 which would take the whole the whole room. 504 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,520 Yes, that is the situation today. 505 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:43,160 But wouldn't you want to invest back in those days in the 60s or 506 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,320 you know later, you know, 70s or 80s on those companies how much 507 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,600 money you would have made? So you are at the beginning at 508 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,280 the dawn of a very exciting developments and again bringing 509 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,800 back IBM from now on it's not a physical challenge, it's not 510 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,960 physics challenges, it's more engineering because the task 511 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,000 today, you know how to make it is just how do you shrink more 512 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,640 and more of those lasers and those those trapped ions on one 513 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,040 wafer. And as we know in in 514 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,720 semiconductors you have Moore's Law, which basically says that 515 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,280 every two years you basically double the amount of 516 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,080 transistors. Of course it doesn't happen 517 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,320 everywhere, but you have you have an engineering challenge to 518 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,000 do that. What we're essentially looking 519 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,720 at over the next five years is if there's a breakthrough moment 520 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,560 in either healthcare defence or communications slash encryption, 521 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,600 it's almost going to be a landslide into the industry 522 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,280 because to your point, you're going to move the 523 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,480 state-of-the-art so much farther forwards. 524 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,840 The, the, the competitive dynamics are going to be so 525 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,560 wide. I mean, it's, it's very 526 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,840 exciting, but it is a bit of a gamble. 527 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,040 It fails. Is it still in academia? 528 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,840 Yeah, well, that's that's the case not in academia anymore. 529 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,440 And I think that 2025 was the inflection year. 530 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,280 What? Happened in 2025 that made 531 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,800 quantum. Commercial use cases appeared as 532 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:14,080 I say commercial use cases on existing on existing machines 533 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,400 like IBM or Continuum machines by some large institutions which 534 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,000 which are researching or trialling some significant 535 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,640 revenue opportunity to either optimize or stimulate, simulate. 536 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,960 And you could look at you could you could see it's happening by 537 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:40,000 the flow of money into quantum because 2022-2023, 2024 it was 538 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,080 nothing. Well, 2024 was increased maybe 539 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,680 40% and then it's gotten 5 or 6 fold increase. 540 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,440 So it's like really you could see in flow of money that is 541 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,400 just as it's like a Jacob classic and that means as a 542 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,720 collective wisdom of investors decided that yes, it's time to 543 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,880 put the money in and it's not to say that the revenue all margins 544 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,440 are there because they won't come from. 545 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,720 Confidence Confidence and proof points are starting to occur. 546 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,600 Yeah, exactly. More and more people looking at 547 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,400 this flow of money feel confident that this is this is 548 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,720 actually significant. And it could come from 549 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,840 different, different angles. So for example, you could have 550 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,480 made this investment decision looking at the, you know, 551 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,160 reading some scientific papers where Google, for example, team 552 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,200 is saying that they now, you know, 1000 times less qubits to 553 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,600 do the, to decrypt the sophisticated encryption 554 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,960 algorithm. Or it could be coming from 555 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,080 commercial, pure commercial point of view saying that, OK, 556 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,440 you know, INQ is just paid 1 / a billion for oxide ionics. 557 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,760 I mean, that means it's, it's, it's happening. 558 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,880 There is a value on those businesses and you know, I 559 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,440 better participate in it. What happens when encryption 560 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,880 breaks? What happens when a bad actor 561 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,240 gets access to a technology that can break encryption? 562 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,880 Well, it's big. It's a big risk. 563 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,800 Some say if you attack, for example, Fed wire transactions 564 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,640 by one of the large financial, major financial institution in 565 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,200 the US, that's like a trillion a day. 566 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,360 Or bitcoins, as I say, 25% of bitcoins translates into 567 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,400 something like 5 or $600 billion. 568 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,159 And as I say, if you have client data like the transaction, like 569 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,639 how do you measure that even? Or how do you insure against 570 00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:21,400 that? So I mean that that that's why 571 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,000 really you have to act now. And in fact, the government 572 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,639 started to legislate. So for example, quantum is part 573 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:30,639 of national security strategy in the US. 574 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,760 You Quantum Act will have some provisions for that, but 575 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,800 actually mandate and post quantum security. 576 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,440 So it's happening in the security agencies are the most, 577 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,159 most sensitive data that you have. 578 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:46,280 But in fact all data is at risk. So if you have, if you have not 579 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,360 time sensitive client data, you could do as I say, harvest now, 580 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,719 decrypt later if you are a bad actor. 581 00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:01,800 As we go through 2026, what are you looking for as an investor? 582 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,000 What signs and signals do you look for in potential 583 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,640 investments to show that these companies or founders are indeed 584 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,600 building something that could be valuable? 585 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,400 Because you know what we discussed earlier about some of 586 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:22,040 these, you know, AI, space tech, quantum, you know, you go to the 587 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,160 events, you go to the investor events. 588 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,240 There's a lot of people talking about potential, but where do 589 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:31,360 you actually see the work getting done and what signals 590 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,600 start to appear to show progress is being made? 591 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,240 Well, first of all, when we speak to customers and when we 592 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,680 speak to our portfolio companies, we ask them to 593 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,320 emphasise who their clients are and what those clients are using 594 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,920 it for. So it's not anymore, you know 595 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,520 some technical benchmarks, how many logical qubits, what's your 596 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,120 gate speed? It's more questions about, OK, 597 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,040 who's using you or who we talking to you, who, who are 598 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,440 potential customers. So it's it's a commercial 599 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,960 opportunity. And what's also important is to 600 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,720 protect yourself against the hype because the hype is a 601 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,800 little bit appearing already like it happened before with AI, 602 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,840 like you add AI name after your company, certain evaluation goes 603 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,680 by a billion. So I fear that some of these 604 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,720 things may be happening in quantum a little bit now. 605 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,520 So it's important to actually understand whether it's first of 606 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,200 all genuine quantum technology or is it just, you know, another 607 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,400 semiconductor device. In in the early stages, I 608 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,440 remember people used to talk about number of billion of 609 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,000 parameters in the large language model. 610 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,760 No one talks about that anymore because the output of the large 611 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,480 language model is kind of felt and integrated into workflows in 612 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,640 People's Daily lives. They don't worry that I'm going 613 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,960 to use this language model because it's got 182 billion 614 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,120 parameters. Quantum maybe is still in the 615 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,960 we've got X billion parameters. Soon the value will be seen on 616 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,160 the outcomes of the technology, not the internal. 617 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,280 Mechanics, absolutely. And also from that point of 618 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,600 view, it won't really matter which modality you're going for 619 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,120 as long as you're producing results and you have commercial 620 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,680 use cases, commercial applications and customers who 621 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,400 are prepared to try this. So that's what's more important. 622 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,360 And if you look at the components as I say, and then 623 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,920 it's, is it genuine quantum or is it overhyped and also very 624 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,800 important, is it actually commercial already? 625 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,600 So is it you're trying just to, you know, find money for some 626 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,240 great research idea which nobody had tried in practice and you've 627 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,680 published a paper on it and so therefore you now want to start 628 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,160 a company or it isn't too early for that. 629 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,360 So perhaps there are several steps that you need to take 630 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,200 before before trying to to ask VC for investments. 631 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,320 What do you think the reality will be in five years? 632 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,680 Sorry, what do you think the reality will be in five years? 633 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,720 Because five years seems to happen very quickly these days. 634 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,880 Again, coming to IBM, because they seem to have the most clear 635 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,320 Rd. plan for quantum. They say 2026 is the year of 636 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,520 quantum advantage and 2029 is deployment of fault tolerant 637 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,600 computer at scale and they're working to it towards this goal. 638 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:09,120 As I say, it's according to CEO, it's the engineering, pure 639 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:10,840 engineering problem. So you can actually see it 640 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,280 happening by 2029. UK, when they announced their 2 641 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,360 billion funding, they said they want to be the first country in 642 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,960 the world to use quantum computing at scale by early 643 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,840 twenty 30s. So I guess we'll take that, that 644 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,480 by early twenty 30s we will have quantum computing used at scale 645 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,080 across applications where it's needed. 646 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,520 Primarily, in my opinion, it's going to be healthcare and 647 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,120 finance. You are when when we've talked 648 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,800 about Quantum, the potential upside is undeniable. 649 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,360 The idea of infinitely parallel scale computation done in a way 650 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,440 that accelerate traditional computing algorithmic progress 651 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,960 processes. But but, as with everything 652 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,440 phenomenally powerful or with huge potential, it can be used 653 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,240 for both good and bad. And, and, and you know, 654 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:06,240 conversations I have is about how regulation controls access 655 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:09,080 to these technologies, how regulation manages access and 656 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,720 the law policies, the use of them. 657 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:17,120 Carol, you're at the emerging edge of early stage precede 658 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,280 seed, you know, Series A investment within computational 659 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,440 world. You know, you have a a deep 660 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,000 history in physics and, and and you're speaking within these 661 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,560 ecosystem patterns all the time. Do you? 662 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,880 Are you confident that quantum will take humanity to a utopic 663 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,760 outcome? I, I would say this is a 664 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,560 significant revolutionary technology which has some large 665 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,560 applications. I wouldn't, I wouldn't go 666 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,440 further than that. I wouldn't say this is, you 667 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,360 know, leading you to some utopia and for the humanity, no, I just 668 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,800 think it's the next big technological step for the 669 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:57,320 humanity.