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I think they can help with 
efficiency, but I don't think 

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they're, I don't think 
When I meet my clients, we have 

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conversations, you know, we ask,
we talk, we speak about things. 

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So as you say, it's outside the 
boundaries of of the business. 

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You know, you may know some some
personal things going on that 

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you can then relate back. 
Financial systems shape how 

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companies actually see 
themselves and how they make 

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decisions. 
Now AI is entering that 

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environment so quickly, 
analysing financial data, 

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supporting auditing and 
initiating reporting processes. 

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Our guest today is Michael 
Loizu. 

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He's a deeply experienced 
accountant and finance 

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transformation specialist who 
has worked in some of the 

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largest organisations but now 
supports growth organisations 

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through his accounting business.
Today we're exploring how 

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organisations can interpret 
their numbers, use technology 

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pragmatically and how their 
processes have to evolve as 

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these new technologies enter and
emerge into every finance 

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function. 
I think I'm going to use 

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technology, but I think the way 
I want to do it differently is I

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don't want to be a volume 
accountancy business. 

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I want to be an accountancy 
business that yes, may use 

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technology and be aware of 
technology, but has the personal

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touch. 
I think that's, you know, I 

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think as technology becomes more
involved in day-to-day for 

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people, I think they're going 
to, they're going to want the 

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personal touch. 
If you look at, you know, the 

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cycles of technology and how now
people are going back to vinyl 

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and back to film photography. 
I think at one point people may,

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may decide that they don't want 
to, you know, an, an AI bot or 

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agent putting their accounts 
together and they, they may miss

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the, the personal touch and, you
know, the judgement that, that a

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human being can give them. 
So yes, I'm going to use 

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technology and I want to be 
technology focused and use it 

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where I can, but also I want to 
give that personal touch to my 

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clients and. 
Yeah, what, what, what judgement

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can humans make that these 
systems and softwares can't 

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make? 
Well, I think the systems and 

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software are very good at 
crunching data and processing 

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data, but I don't know. 
You probably know better than me

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how the models work for, you 
know, giving an opinion, you 

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know, what is it based on? 
You know, is it based on 20 

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years of accountancy experience 
or, or are they just reviewing? 

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You know, I, I actually don't 
know how they get to it. 

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And I've, I've experimented a 
bit and asked AI tools various 

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questions and, you know, they 
give different answers, they 

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give wrong answers. 
So for me at the moment, the, 

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the trust isn't quite there. 
You know, I think they're good 

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tools. 
I don't think at the moment I 

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don't see them taking over the 
role of of the accountant as I 

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see it. 
Well, the role of the accountant

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seems to be changing almost from
a mechanical function like 

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processing the data to an 
advisory function. 

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That's how I see it, yeah. 
I see it as a, as a, you know, a

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fractional FD or something like 
this. 

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You know, I think we've spoken 
about fractional roles in the 

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past and you know, not every 
organization can afford to have 

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a full time FD, but I think 
there is a benefit to to having 

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that that service and that role 
within, within even small 

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organisations. 
Sometimes with people, they 

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misunderstand their own 
financial situation because 

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they're subconsciously bias and 
emotional. 

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You know, on a good day when 
you're feeling positive, you 

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might, you know, spend money. 
On a day that you're not feeling

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positive, you don't. 
Your decision making around 

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finances can be an emotional you
know and therefore volatile. 

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How do you or businesses indeed 
make sure that financial 

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decisions are being made 
objectively? 

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Well, you've got that, you've 
got that objective stance point.

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You're not emotionally involved 
in the business in some ways, 

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you know, you obviously you want
to help, but it's not, it's not 

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the, it's not the business that 
you've built up. 

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And you can be, as you say, you 
know, maybe not fully objective 

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of where the business is 
financially and that's where you

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need the advisor who's slightly 
more independent and can take a 

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higher level view of it to 
assist with that. 

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Why is that so powerful? 
Because I see that like, even 

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whether it's come to headcount 
adjustments, this sort of thing,

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the founder can sometimes be 
blinded by the decisions they've

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already made. 
There's almost like a a debt 

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within their mind that they 
don't want to undo decisions, 

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even though they know those 
decisions are probably right to 

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change. 
It's a, it's a cognitive 

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dissonance and bias, I think, 
you know, nobody likes to admit 

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they're wrong. 
It's, it's like the, it's like 

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the gambler chasing the, chasing
the losses, you know, keep, keep

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going and chasing the losses. 
When if they admit they've lost 

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and they leave, they're probably
be in a better situation. 

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In some ways. 
I think just having a fresh pair

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of eyes and someone independent 
to look at it helps. 

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Yeah. 
How do you approach the 

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difficult decisions then? 
So say if a founder or a company

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is completely committed to a 
certain path of investment or 

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spend and your independent 
unemotional lens is a IS, a is 

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is against that, how would you 
approach that? 

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I think it's the same as 
anything. 

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People I would say need to make 
their own decisions and mistakes

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and learn from them. 
You know you can advise and and 

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give the numbers and give the 
facts, but ultimately you know 

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they need to run the business 
the the way they want to run it.

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I don't think people find 
founders don't tend to found 

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businesses because they're 
accountants. 

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But also when you see large 
organisations, when they put CF 

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OS into CEO roles can go 
downhill quick because they 

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focus on the numbers, not the 
vision, the market, the 

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trajectory. 
How do you possibly balance that

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running a business from its 
balance sheet versus running a 

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business from passion, emotion, 
conviction in markets that that 

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are emerging in technology that 
is immature but will mature 

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like, yeah, the numbers can't 
prospectively map the the future

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growth or inflection points. 
They can only really diagnose 

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for current and past. 
Yeah, it's two different roles 

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and you need both, obviously. 
You need the passion, the ideas,

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the entrepreneur, 
entrepreneurial skills of of the

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founder, but you need, you need 
you know, the CFO type role to 

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to rein it in a bit and advise 
on investment. 

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You know, investment strategies 
and and day-to-day management if

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nothing else. 
Like is is, is there a potential

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risk where knowing so much 
objectively about a business 

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makes you just think this is 
never going to succeed? 

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The the the financial model 
around AI training, large 

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language model training, the 
power required, the cost to do 

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it. 
If if you allowed the accountant

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to to decide the path of some of
these like mega AI companies, 

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they, they, they wouldn't do it.
It makes no financial sense. 

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However. 
Look at the anecdotal and global

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impact of technologies like 
Google, Gemini. 

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You know, they're, they're, 
they're phenomenally powerful. 

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They're interacting with every 
individual in various different 

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layers of of value. 
How? 

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How is that balance managed in a
healthy way? 

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You need a. 
Obviously you need strong role 

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people in each role. 
So the founder needs to be 

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strong enough to, to identify 
that. 

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Look, I, I believe in this 
product and I'm going to, I'm 

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going to stick with it, you 
know, and it may be that 

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there's, there's a bit of stormy
weather along the way and you 

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00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:26,440
would hope they'd come out with 
it with, you know, a successful 

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business. 
Can you predict that stormy 

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weather? 
I think you can from the 

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numbers, yeah, you can see the 
trajectories and you know the 

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the the forecast will tell you 
that. 

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Obviously you try and mitigate 
against that. 

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And if AI can predict it, is AI 
accountable? 

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I think AI can assist with it, 
but I don't think AI can make 

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the judgements because, you 
know, as I said, you ask the 

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same question to two or three AI
tools and you get a different 

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response saying that you ask 
three different accountants. 

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You may get a different 
response, but they'll be, I 

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00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:04,760
think, a bit more aligned. 
How are you advising companies 

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00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,720
where they know the break even 
point may never appear? 

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How do you manage accounting in 
this or financial management in 

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a situation where it's still in 
that very emerging phase? 

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It has to be on the founder and 
you know the entrepreneur to to 

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really drive in. 
You know, you, you don't want to

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put the brakes on. 
Otherwise, as you say, nothing 

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will, you know, if you're only 
looking at the numbers and 

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what's feasible financially, 
nothing will, will happen. 

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You know, a lot of, a lot of 
things will get stopped that 

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00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,040
that can be successful. 
So obviously there's an element 

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of risk. 
There's always an element of 

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risk with new products, new 
businesses, new technologies and

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it's balancing that risk and, 
and you know, to a point where 

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where it's acceptable, I think. 
How do you, how do you assess 

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risk? 
So when you're going into a new 

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company or a company comes to 
you, what are the first things 

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00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,400
you do to kind of assess health 
and risk to give you that 

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00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,120
ability to apply your 
experience? 

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00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:13,160
You need to look at the 
fundamentals of, you know, the 

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00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,200
real basics of incomings and 
outgoings of the company, how 

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00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:22,720
it's being managed. 
Are there any obvious, you know,

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large outgoings that are 
unnecessary, you know, 

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unnecessary spending at the 
beginning, you know, is, is the,

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the limited finance being spent 
in the best possible way? 

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I think they're the first 
questions you look at. 

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00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,360
Is it being invested correctly? 
Is unnecessary spending that can

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be. 
Reduced, I mean everything's in 

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the industry is the events 
industry, the amount of money 

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that gets spent on events, which
leads to no tangible business. 

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In your experience, what are the
things that you're seeing that 

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00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,160
are unnecessary? 
Like what are the low hanging 

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00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,400
fruits so to speak? 
Well, it would be, you know, I 

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00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,920
think a lot of the time when 
someone starts a new business 

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00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,760
and and gets their initial 
funding, you know, it's, it's a 

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00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,480
bit of a free for all. 
I'm not saying the Ferraris come

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00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,760
out of the showroom, but you 
know, it can be, you know, 

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certain events that may not be 
the right ones. 

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00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:24,240
When it's early, there's, I 
think there can be a feeling 

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00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,440
that spend needs to be done on 
performative theatre, certainly 

190
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,080
in tech to demonstrate growth, 
be it the right events, be in 

191
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,440
the right networking. 
I, I mean, I reject that these 

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00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,760
days. 
I think that the there are so 

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00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,080
many super high growth 
businesses now that are just 

194
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:46,240
heads down, you know, in the 
shadows, so to speak, shipping 

195
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,760
code, building customer 
relationships, incrementally 

196
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,320
improving those relationships 
with improved code, improved 

197
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,400
services, type feedback loops. 
They don't go to events, they 

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00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,000
don't spend a lot of money on 
marketing. 

199
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,400
They're just building for their 
clients. 

200
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,240
There's there's an elegance in 
that for me. 

201
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,760
I agree with that, yeah, we're 
talking about different types of

202
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,040
CEO. 
So you, you may have ACEO with a

203
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,480
technical background, a 
developer who really wants to 

204
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,280
knuckle down, just, you know, 
get his product built, get his 

205
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,400
product out. 
And then you've got other CEOs 

206
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,160
where you know, their background
is more sales potentially, and 

207
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,600
they're they want to get out 
there and promote the product. 

208
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,840
So, you know, these these type 
of companies are at the opposite

209
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,040
end of the spectrum. 
They'll be built up differently.

210
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,520
And you know, again, it's 
raining in both of them. 

211
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,880
You know, the the developer 
needs to get out there and show 

212
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,560
the product and you know, the 
entrepreneurs more of a sales 

213
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,320
background needs to knuckle down
and build the product a bit. 

214
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,280
So it's, you know, it's it's 
raining both in to to have the 

215
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:55,400
overall to have the organization
created correctly overall. 

216
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,080
I mean, the cost of doing a lot 
of stuff is dramatically 

217
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,760
reduced. 
Building websites, marketing 

218
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:08,960
content, content generation, you
know, writing pressure like all 

219
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:15,120
of that with AI has massively 
reduced quality is subjective 

220
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,360
some bit, you know, you can see 
patterns within AI, but there's 

221
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:24,320
no doubt on the balance sheet 
the cost of sales is reducing. 

222
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,880
I mean, are you applying your 
knowledge of AI products to your

223
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,560
clients to make sure they're 
getting the best possible value 

224
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,520
for marketing spend or, you 
know, market awareness? 

225
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,920
Yeah, in, in terms of as I said 
earlier, I think in terms of 

226
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,000
the, the any products I use, I 
don't quite have the trust 

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there. 
You know, I think AI is good at 

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00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,800
certain things and I trust it 
for certain things. 

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00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,360
I think that is a space I'd like
to move into with clients to be 

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able to obviously I've got the 
project management and 

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00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,480
technology background to be able
to help them identify if there's

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any products that they can 
implement that would, you know, 

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00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,000
make savings on time or or money
for them. 

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When you say you've you've used 
these products that don't work, 

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how? 
Like how are you questioning 

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those systems? 
How do you know the data that's 

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coming out of them is incorrect?
Sometimes it's correct, 

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sometimes it isn't. 
So I don't have that trust. 

239
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,200
You know, I, I think they're 
very good at finding the 

240
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,040
information and then I will, I 
will use that to find what I 

241
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,080
need and, and review it. 
But when you ask them to find 

242
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,840
the information and give you an 
answer or a consideration, I 

243
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,040
don't quite trust that it's, 
it's going to be right at the 

244
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,320
moment anyway. 
As I said, I don't know how 

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00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,160
they, you know, I don't know 
where the sources are from a lot

246
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,080
of the time. 
So, you know, I need to know 

247
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,520
that the source is correct. 
Otherwise it could, you know, I 

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00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,240
don't know where it's come from.
You're what I'm getting from you

249
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:02,400
is a very much human first 
approach built upon real world 

250
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,400
experience, probably mirroring 
your client base who maybe 

251
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:12,720
aren't as progressive in the way
they've adopted these type of 

252
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,040
tools. 
Like, are your clients 

253
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,600
predominantly businesses who are
fundamentally analogue? 

254
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,320
I think everybody's 
experimenting at the moment and 

255
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,200
you know, it's with any new 
stage of technology, I mean it's

256
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,240
everybody's experimenting, 
everybody's using the tools to 

257
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,000
some extent. 
And I think it's, I think the 

258
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,560
technology hasn't settled down 
yet. 

259
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,840
It's not found its feet. 
You know, with my clients 

260
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,960
specifically, you know, I think 
they are using the tools 

261
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,880
obviously, you know, the, the 
consumer grade tools are easy 

262
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:54,880
to, you know, to start using. 
They're not very expensive maybe

263
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,000
to assist with emails and 
reviewing documents. 

264
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:05,040
I think I do still, you know, 
having worked in technology for 

265
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,599
many years, I've gone back to, 
you know, when I started my 

266
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,000
accountancy firm. 
I, I want it to have that human 

267
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,240
touch. 
You know, I know that probably a

268
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,319
lot of the information can be 
gained online, but you know, 

269
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,440
that needs time as well, you 
know, for people to research it 

270
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,760
and investigate it and. 
Yeah. 

271
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,640
Are you starting to reject 
technology? 

272
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,560
I am a bit actually, yeah. 
I think, you know, I've got two 

273
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,480
young children and we try and 
limit their technology. 

274
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,880
You know, I do notice it. 
I do notice that it has an 

275
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,840
effect on, on the children. 
So I, I, I think there may be a 

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00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,680
rejection of AI and technology 
that as as I said before, the 

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00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,480
same way that people go back to 
vinyl and go back to film 

278
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,080
photography. 
And, you know, I think if you 

279
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:56,800
look at the way human beings 
have have been over time, we 

280
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,360
adopt these new technologies and
then we we harp back to to 

281
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,400
previous ways of working. 
You know, it may be that it may 

282
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,400
be that account C disappears in 
a, in 10 years and then in 20 

283
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,880
years, everybody suddenly wants 
an advisor and an accountant 

284
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,360
again. 
You know, it's cyclical, I 

285
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:18,600
think. 
I've had this feeling that we're

286
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,400
on this unstoppable rise of this
technology, but you're 

287
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,360
suggesting to me maybe this is a
functional, not only a 

288
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,120
financial, but a functional 
bubble. 

289
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,880
Is this something that we could 
get seduced by and then turn our

290
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:38,160
backs on as we return to human 
trust and human relationships? 

291
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:43,120
My personal opinion is yes, I 
think we'll, I think we're in a 

292
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,200
position now where we've got the
shining new toy. 

293
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,960
We're all looking to adopt it. 
We all think it can, you know, 

294
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,440
make us more efficient, save 
money, make us more productive. 

295
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,560
And I think at one point we'll 
learn how to use it, but use it 

296
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:05,560
in a way where we value the 
human aspect more and use it in 

297
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,120
a way where the technology does 
its role and the human has its 

298
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,520
role and it's valued for that 
do. 

299
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,880
You think that'll proliferate 
across all applications, 

300
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:21,960
business, government services? 
I think in my, in my world of 

301
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,520
small business, I think so. 
I think in the large 

302
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,000
organisations I'm not so sure 
because they really are about 

303
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,720
having worked in, you know, some
large organisations myself. 

304
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,840
I think they are more concerned 
with the bottom line numbers. 

305
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,480
I mean, accountancy is one of 
those things that I have always 

306
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:46,720
had trusted relationships in 
and, you know, relationships in 

307
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,520
some cases have lasted, you 
know, decades where you, you 

308
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,720
feel as though they know your 
needs. 

309
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,240
Whereas even with a customized 
AI project in a Gemini or a 

310
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,800
Chachi PT, you know, it's got a 
degree of context, but it hasn't

311
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:11,840
got the context of your, you 
know, ambition, your history. 

312
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,600
So, so I guess that what we're 
saying here is that the human 

313
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,000
has the ability to offer much 
wider aperture. 

314
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,400
On the client, because even 
though it's about numbers, those

315
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,680
numbers are representations of 
many different elements of the 

316
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,800
business and the person and the 
life, correct. 

317
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,400
So you're you're bringing lots 
of soft considerations into your

318
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,160
accounting advice and guidance 
that can't even be captured 

319
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,960
within prompting or, you know, 
an AI project memory. 

320
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,360
You know, when I meet my 
clients, we have conversations, 

321
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,720
you know, we ask, we talk, we 
speak about things. 

322
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,920
So as you say, it's outside the 
boundaries of of the business. 

323
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,920
You know, you may know some, 
some personal things going on 

324
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:09,160
that you can then relate back. 
You know, I don't think AI at 

325
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,080
the moment can gather that whole
picture. 

326
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,280
Well, it sounds like a deep 
empathy for your clients. 

327
00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,080
For my firm, it's not going to 
be a volume business. 

328
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,640
I want, you know, I want to have
that connection with my clients 

329
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,760
and I want to to know them well 
and know their businesses well. 

330
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,320
And I don't think at the moment 
you would get that from AI in 

331
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,440
its current form. 
If, if, if we're just looking at

332
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,120
the future a little bit and 
talking about improved personal 

333
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,000
relationships. 
Do you, do you think 

334
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,440
fundamentally finance structures
in large organisations will 

335
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,200
change? 
Like, you know, how will 

336
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,680
organisations, certainly AI 
native businesses, how will they

337
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,080
structure their finance 
function? 

338
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,160
There'll be a lot more 
fractional roles. 

339
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,640
Because of the efficiency guide 
given by. 

340
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,760
I think so. 
I think there'll be a lot more 

341
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,280
fractional roles due to the, the
nature of, you know, if, if the 

342
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,840
AI tools are being used you, you
may not need full time CF OS and

343
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:18,800
FTS potentially. 
But I think along with that, the

344
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,800
value of that, that human 
judgement and trust, as we said,

345
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,440
will will be more important in 
the future and will be 

346
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,360
considered, you know, more 
important. 

347
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,680
So your fundamentally 
questioning the unstoppable rise

348
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,600
of AI and believe it's a 
temporary phase of tooling where

349
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:47,200
but the human relationship and 
value of human community will 

350
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,880
prevail? 
I do and I, I look back on 

351
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,760
history to, to support that. 
You know, as I said in the 

352
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,280
beginning, when my father used 
huge pieces of paper and 

353
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:04,200
calculators to, to add up. 
And then at one point the, you 

354
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,400
know, they started using 
computers and Excel and Lotus 

355
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Notes and that obviously speed 
things up. 

356
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,120
And I'm sure at that point there
were conversations around, will 

357
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,160
accountants lose their job? 
Do we need so many accountants? 

358
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,680
20 years after that, cloud 
computing came in. 

359
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,920
I'm sure there were similar 
conversations there. 

360
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,960
Now it's AI in in 20 years, 
there may be something else. 

361
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,880
Got it. 
So the the tooling will enhance 

362
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,040
the human, but the human will 
always prevail in terms of the 

363
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,320
interpersonal relationship. 
I think so. 

364
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,720
And it's also looking back, you 
know, what have we done when 

365
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,200
we've gained the efficiencies, 
we're not working less, you 

366
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:51,920
know, to look at it slightly 
philosophically, when, when 

367
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,840
we've got the new tools, you 
know, did the accountant then 

368
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,440
start working three days a week 
and using Excel to, to do the 

369
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,800
work faster? 
No, he carried on working five 

370
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:03,880
days a week. 
He did more. 

371
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720
You know, why are we, what is 
the technology going to do for 

372
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,560
us? 
It's simply going to mean we can

373
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,280
maintain the growth that we 
need. 

374
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,680
You know, you know, the economic
growth that we have, we're not 

375
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,440
working any less. 
If anything, we're probably 

376
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,640
working harder. 
We're working differently, but 

377
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,720
we're working just as many hours
as we were before. 

378
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,760
We're we're just as stressed. 
The tools aren't aren't taking 

379
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,920
that away. 
They're just meaning that we can

380
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,600
output more. 
Are we? 

381
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,960
Is sustained economic growth 
feasible? 

382
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,040
I think it's what is desirable 
for, for this economic model. 

383
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,080
Economic growth is needed. 
You know, if you if you look at 

384
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,960
the main statistics that that 
are on the news and that are put

385
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,680
out by the governments and the 
OBR, it's growth, you know, 

386
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,400
growth is monitored. 
Growth is desirable in this 

387
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,920
model. 
You know, we don't say we we're 

388
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,400
going to have AI tools. 
Everybody can work three days a 

389
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,240
week. 
We're saying we've got AI tools,

390
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,240
we can maintain the growth, We 
need the technological changes 

391
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,080
to maintain that growth, 
otherwise we will be flat. 

392
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,960
But the growth requires 
consumption and we're seeing 

393
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,360
socio economic scenarios where 
consumption doesn't continue to 

394
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,720
grow. 
If consumption doesn't continue 

395
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:25,960
to grow, how can you continue to
do you not end up with an 

396
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,880
imbalance of supply and demand? 
I. 

397
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,280
Think the consumption is growing
though I think as you say that 

398
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,560
maintains it. 
That's ultimately what maintains

399
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:35,760
the growth. 
It's the consumption. 

400
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,600
It's just different types of 
consumption. 

401
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,880
But these phases of technology 
that have come and gone and 

402
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,400
emerged and almost like blend 
into the human LED services like

403
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,400
counting like you say. 
I think you've talked about 3 or

404
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,760
4 different generations we're 
in. 

405
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,040
We're in next generation that 
there will be others. 

406
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,640
Do you believe these generations
of use humans using technology 

407
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,160
will lead humanity to a utopia 
or dystopia? 

408
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,960
Trying in my circle of influence
to not allow it to lead to a 

409
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,760
dystopia. 
And that is probably why I'm 

410
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,280
sceptical. 
Even though I use the tools I, 

411
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,440
I, you know, having worked in 
technology, I see them as tools 

412
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,320
and, and no more really. 
And I think there is a danger of

413
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,800
dystopia. 
I don't think it's going to lead

414
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,600
to utopia. 
You know, if you look on the 

415
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,320
tube at all the heads down on 
the screens, I, I wouldn't call 

416
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:34,280
that utopia. 
You know, I think technology 

417
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,880
potentially is going to be 
regulated. 

418
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,720
You know, there's, there's talk 
of regulation for, for, for 

419
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,560
younger users of technology. 
I know it's already come in 

420
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,760
place in, in, in Australia. 
And I, you know, not just AII, 

421
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:58,880
see it as the whole use of 
technology and potentially human

422
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,200
beings may have to make some 
decisions on whether they 

423
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:08,840
regulate it, you know, as as the
tools get more, more complex, 

424
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:16,720
as, as with the AI tools. 
We are in a computer game.