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From the great Central Fire 
today, boy, we had a really, 

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really great talk and it was a 
very informative visit with the 

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director of our Urban Wilderness
program and Owakanzi and now the

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new assistant director Cooch for
the morning program. 

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Trey Stunning Trace is a long 
time camper at Cooch and staff 

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guy still heavily involved in 
well, we hit on a lot of things.

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You know, you know how how he 
started at camp coming out of 

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Cincinnati, he mentioned the 
Bantam campus when he first 

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started. 
We got really into how the whole

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urban wilderness operates and 
then everyone really needs to 

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hear that. 
And then how that ties in with 

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our property up in Canada. 
Olakanzi, We talked about his 

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trip to the Arctic with his crew
back in 2024 and we touched on 

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his new life changing experience
this past summer when he married

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his lovely wife Emily. 
And then at the course at the 

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end we had a few questions for 
Trace about some specific things

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at camp. 
So sit back, relax, enjoy, and I

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think you're really going to 
enjoy this talk that we had with

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Trace Dunny from the Great 
Central Fire. 

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Today we have the director of 
our Urban Wilderness program, 

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also the director of Owaconzi, 
and I just found out the new 

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assistant for Camp Kuching for 
the morning programs. 

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But Trey Stunning has been a 
long time camper at Kooch Staff 

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Guy still heavily involved in 
and really got our Urban 

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wilderness program that many 
human may not know about off the

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ground, but it is absolutely 
booming and has become a big 

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part of this camping and 
Education Foundation. 

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And we're going to let him dive 
into that. 

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But first of all, Trace, 
welcome. 

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It's great to have. 
Yeah, it's great to have you on 

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today. 
You just got back from. 

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I just got back at a build from 
it at Aiken High School so I'm 

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pretty dirty glued up here but. 
Well, that's all right. 

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They can't see us anyway. 
So. 

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But Trace, you know, we start 
with everybody. 

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You know, obviously we love to 
know the connection. 

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I know you're from Cincinnati, 
but kind of give us a insight of

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how you found out about it and 
your years at camp, how when you

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started, all that kind of stuff.
Let's just start at the 

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beginning. 
Yeah, I was a first generation. 

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So Jr. and Steve Hindley were Co
directors at the time and they 

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had a recruiting event in my 
neighborhood. 

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A kid in my neighborhood what up
the camp for just two years. 

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I think he was three years older
than me. 

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So he did his like intermediate 
years, but then left and I was 

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actually sick that day. 
So I didn't go to the recruiting

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event, just my mom went and she 
came back. 

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She's like, this place is 
incredible. 

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You got to go. 
I was like, OK, when and where? 

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And so I started off. 
I was the last Bantam class I 

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did 2008. 
I was up for 10 days. 

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Kyle, Ron, this was my unit head
of Bantam camp. 

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Jason Seaman and and an Eichler 
in my cabin and we won the that 

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was my only time I won the token
card race, but we didn't have 

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token cards in Bamham camp and 
we just won a fleece and analogy

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and but I was like this is the 
best 10 days of my life. 

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I was just running around the 
island. 

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Did AI think A1 night trip on 
rainy Lake and it was magical. 

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And then the year after that 
came up as a three-week prep 

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with my brother and I was in 
Steve Heinleys canoe as a prep 

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and I'm like, Oh, this is great.
And I kept coming through the 

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years. 
I think my first year coming for

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eight weeks, I was actually 
supposed to be a four week 

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intermediate and I was just 
walking down the trail the back 

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to lunch I think, and Jr. passed
me. 

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He said, hey, you want to stay 
for eight? 

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I'm like, yeah, I'd love to. 
And then I think at dinner he 

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came back, he's gave me a tap. 
He's like, hey, you're staying 

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for 8. 
Great. 

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And then it's been been working 
and coming up ever since. 

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Yeah, so you went all of your 
campers, you're saying? 

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Yeah, every every year since 
2008. 

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And then my first year on staff 
was 2016. 

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So you went three years as a 
prep 2 as a junior 2? 

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Well, actually one year we did, 
I had, we didn't end up going up

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because my brother was diagnosed
with type 1 diabetes and we had 

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to figure that out. 
So we spent one summer not 

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coming up the camps. 
I never was a first year junior.

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But then after that we started, 
once we got it all dialed in, we

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came back up and we actually on 
my prep trip, Bobby Ecker was on

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our trip, my brother and I were 
on the same trip and we saw 

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himself giving him like shots. 
Like what? 

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What is that? 
And then the next year my 

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brother was diagnosed and you 
know, we're like, we can't make 

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it work this year. 
And my mom was kind of, you 

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know, like, I don't know if 
we're going to be able to go up 

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the camp with Luke's diabetes. 
Like I think someone at camp had

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like had what Luke had or I got 
has now. 

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And then we called Bobby Ecker 
and he was a big reason we're 

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able to come back. 
I think he was slated to be a 

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senior trip assistant, which by 
all metrics is one of the best 

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jobs on the island. 
Jr. and Steve talked to him and 

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he was, he actually moved back 
down to the junior unit, junior 

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unit. 
So my mom would feel more 

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comfortable with Luke coming up 
to camp and help Luke kind of 

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guide his diabetic journey at 
camp. 

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So that's like the biggest 
reason we're able to keep coming

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back. 
Now, did your brother go all 

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those years as well? 
Not as much. 

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He went up until he was a first 
year senior and then he stopped.

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He went into college and stopped
coming up for a bit. 

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But now he's been back for three
years now and he's the junior 

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unit head now. 
OK. 

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OK, so he's back involved? 
Yeah, he's back involved. 

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He works for me with the Urban 
Learners program. 

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Too. 
Oh yeah, he's the shop. 

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Guy, yeah, he's the. 
He's the. 

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He's the brains. 
I'm the. 

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Face. 
Well, we'll, we'll, we'll get to

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that now. 
You went to school in Loveland 

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and then? 
And then where? 

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Loveland High School and then 
went to college at the 

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University of Cincinnati. 
OK, You went to UC? 

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Yeah, OK. 
Stayed local and. 

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Yeah, my mom was a professor 
there, so it made sense. 

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Oh yeah, absolutely. 
The tuition discount. 

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That's right. 
Well, I mean this this whole 

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urban wilderness program, you 
know, I've been hearing and 

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learning more and more. 
I learned a little bit today, 

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even we met with with an alum 
Hugh and I did at lunch, a guy 

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named Greg Morris, who's the 
great guy and heard Hugh talk 

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about a little lot. 
But I think a lot of people 

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would like to hear about, I'm 
sure they may have heard about 

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it, may not, but I know this 
thing is going through the roof 

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right now and we're trying to 
keep up with you. 

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I mean, as best we can with with
support. 

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But why don't you take us, I 
mean, as much as you know at the

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beginning, Take us through it 
and what it is and what it does 

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and how it works and then and it
will will hold off on Ola Kanzi 

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until we get through this urban 
wilderness thing. 

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But this is a great, a great, 
great thing that we have going 

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on with the Camping and 
Education Foundation. 

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And I think a lot of people 
would really connect with what 

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this is doing for kids in in the
in the cities. 

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All credit to Hughes, his 
vision. 

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In 2013, I was still in high 
school. 

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He kind of started the urban 
lawyers program with the idea of

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we can't get every kid up to the
camps. 

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There's only a certain amount of
cabins, we have only a certain 

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amount of bunks. 
So how can we bring the magic of

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what we do in the North Woods to
a urban environment? 

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And since we're located in the 
Cincinnati, it made sense to do 

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it here. 
Hugh and I think Kid Summers at 

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the time kind of took it up and 
they do like one or two week 

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long or not long, but two weeks 
field trips with a couple 

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schools, local schools. 
And that was like all the urban 

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lawyers program was it was a one
or two week thing where every 

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day we get a bus and kids we 
partnered with with wilderness 

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inquiry. 
So they'd bring these big 

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Voyager canoes, like 15 person 
canoes and they take them on the

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Ohio River. 
And then what we taught the 

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Kucha Chang and Oh Getchi, we 
teach the land activities and 

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teach the kids what a want again
was and how like the Voyagers 

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used to use the wand against the
travel and how to start a fire 

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and how to cook over a fire kind
of like this is what a couch 

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fireplaces. 
And then so I would skip school.

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Actually, my mom would let me 
skip school in high school to 

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come volunteer with them. 
So that's when I first kind of 

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got into the Urban lawyers 
program, just as a volunteer in 

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high school. 
And then going through college, 

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this boat building piece started
getting involved. 

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And Phil Winger, who's from 
Urban Boat Builders in 

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Minneapolis, trained some of our
staff in Hughes Garage. 

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And I came when I was in 
college. 

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I was like, yeah, this is pretty
cool. 

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I still didn't know what I 
wanted to do yet. 

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And I was still in college, so 
I'll still focus on classes. 

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But I'd come and if I had time 
would help. 

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And then since Mandel was 
running at that time and really 

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started the boat building piece 
of it. 

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And from there, you know, we're 
working with three to four 

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schools a year. 
And it wouldn't take, you know, 

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the whole from August to May is 
our year because then we're all 

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up a camp. 
And so I'd help when I could, 

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but I was mostly involved in 
college. 

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And then 2020 was COVID, so I 
was up at camp on the skeleton 

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crew. 
We had a small staff at camp 

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getting ready in case we were 
able to open this that year. 

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Then sadly we're we weren't able
to open and I graduated college.

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So it's like, no, I don't have a
job and I don't like we're not 

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at camp. 
It's like my first time in July,

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I was in Cincinnati and I was 
just hanging out. 

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I actually got a, a job at my 
one of my good friends in 

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Cincinnati. 
He has, he has a family owned 

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breast pump manufacturing 
company. 

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So I was working in the factory 
packaging breast pumps for a 

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couple months. 
I'm like a man, I got to figure 

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something out. 
And so I reached out to Hugh. 

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I'm like, hey, I'd love to join 
urban awareness program full 

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time. 
And Austin had phased out at 

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that point. 
And so he brought me in as the 

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coordinator. 
And at first it was just me. 

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And for the first like 3 months 
I was kind of like, no, I don't 

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know how to build a boat really.
I've learned a couple times, I 

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don't know how the mill any 
pieces or how they contact 

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schools. 
And then I asked my brother 

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who's still in college, but he 
went to school for industrial 

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design. 
So he's like really a design 

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engineering mind with a focus in
furniture building. 

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And he actually already 
converted my mom's garage into 

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like a pseudo woodshop. 
So we started our milling 

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program in my mom's garage 
during that code. 

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It was still like that year was 
still COVID, so we didn't have a

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lot of schools to work with. 
So Luke and I spent, you know, 

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four months just making canoes 
in my mom's garage, kind of 

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honing the system, how it would 
work in a school environment for

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us. 
And then that next year, we're 

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really able to hit the ground 
running. 

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And I reached out to a bunch of 
Cincinnati schools. 

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I think we worked with 12 or 15 
schools that year, and it just 

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really popped off from there. 
Like the school gets to keep the

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boat once it's finished. 
It's a beautiful product. 

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The kids, you know, are so, you 
know, kind of like walk in on 

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day one, they see a bundle of 
sticks and like, who are these 

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guys? 
Oh, we're building a canoe. 

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00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,560
Like, what is a canoe? 
OK, I'm sure it's like a just a 

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little plywood canoe or 
something. 

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And then in six days, you know, 
you had this 15 foot beautiful 

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skin on frame canoe and they're 
like, Oh my gosh, we built that.

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And then a lot of them is like, 
I I'm not going on the water, 

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like I don't know how to swim. 
I don't like nature. 

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But towards the end, at the end 
of the canoe build, they'd be 

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00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,600
like, I want to I'm the first 
person to get in this boat. 

224
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,280
This is my boat. 
And then we take them on, you 

225
00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,160
know, field trips on the low 
Miami or, you know, local 

226
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,680
waterways, Burnett Woods, when 
woods like and Steve Sullivan 

227
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,880
would drive the kids a lot at 
that point. 

228
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,760
And he had, he has a great quote
of, you know, he didn't really 

229
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,920
get the urban lawyers program, 
how we could bring what we do to

230
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,080
the Northwoods here. 
And then when you, you know, you

231
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,680
pick up a group of kids after a 
field trip with their own canoe 

232
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:19,600
and take them back to the, their
school. 

233
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,520
Solly's like it's the, it's the 
same face as a kid that just 

234
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,160
completed the English river. 
So it's all relative. 

235
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,440
Like these kids that have no 
understanding of what goes on up

236
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,480
there. 
It's like for them, this is the 

237
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,760
English or the seal or it's just
unbelievable. 

238
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,440
And let's before we get into 
more about the school stuff, 

239
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,800
let's talk about the boat. 
So exactly you're so people 

240
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,000
understand when you talk about 
boat building and you kind of 

241
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,760
mentioned it a little bit. 
This is a 15 foot canoe made out

242
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,360
of wood strips. 
I mean, tell us what this is so 

243
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,240
people have an understanding 
about what you're starting from 

244
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,560
scratch. 
Yeah, it's a, it's a 15 foot 

245
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:56,360
skin on frame canoe. 
So the frame is made out of wood

246
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,120
and it's kind of like a skeleton
of a canoe. 

247
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,920
The ribs, which are kind of the 
hull of the boat are made out of

248
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,200
ash. 
You have the gunnels out of 

249
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,160
pine. 
And we actually on on the skin 

250
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,000
on framed canoes of something 
called in whales, which are 

251
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,240
right next to the gunnels. 
And those are made out of 

252
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,080
cherry. 
And it looks like a a regular 

253
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,000
boat, but it's like this kind of
frame, which is hard to 

254
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,440
describe, but it's a skeletonal 
frame. 

255
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,600
And then we sew A ballistic 
nylon onto it and then we cover 

256
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,600
that in polyurethane and that 
creates kind of the shell of the

257
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,920
canoe. 
And then with that they also 

258
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,000
make 2 paddles. 
OK, a carpet from. 

259
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,480
Yeah, so we bring, you know, we 
mill a paddle shape, we call it 

260
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,800
a paddle blank. 
It's like a inch and a quarter 

261
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,360
thick, looks like a paddle, but 
it's 1/4 inch thick all the way 

262
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,320
around. 
And then the kids shave and 

263
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,400
design into a sleek, you know, 
usable paddle. 

264
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,920
And then they also get the 
Woodburn, you know, design or 

265
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,800
their names on it. 
So typically they'll do class of

266
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,800
so and so, they're just high 
schools or their school's name, 

267
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,280
and then on the back, everyone 
who helps puts their name on the

268
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,280
paddle. 
So, OK, so let's take us 

269
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,040
through. 
We'll just take Aiken for an 

270
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,480
example. 
OK, you, you've got a class or 

271
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,720
whatever, you've got a, you're 
going to do a boat build. 

272
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,400
You're going to start with 1 
canoe. 

273
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,680
And you go in, you talk to the 
school, you talk to the science 

274
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,120
teachers, whatever. 
Yes, we want to have you in 

275
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,760
there. 
The schools pay a little bit of 

276
00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,560
money for this, for this class. 
It's kind of a STEM oriented. 

277
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,800
Yeah, we work with a lot of 
different schools and a lot of 

278
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,880
different teachers and each 
teacher or school has a 

279
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,400
different theme they want to use
for their boat build. 

280
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,200
With Aiken, they're doing it's, 
we work with their AG program 

281
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,000
and it's all about 
sustainability and 

282
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,080
environmentalism. 
Then we also do work with a lot 

283
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,840
of science teachers and we 
incorporate a lot of STEM 

284
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,480
practices and like, why does 
wood bend when you steam it, 

285
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,760
taking certain measurements? 
We also work with math classes 

286
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,160
like dividing fractions, and we 
kind of take whatever their 

287
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,880
curriculum is and tailor it to 
what we're doing at the time. 

288
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,800
It's real. 
It's real life learning. 

289
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,080
I mean, other than out of a 
book, I mean, you're actually 

290
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,720
are applying the, the, the, the,
you know, the science to it, the

291
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,040
mathematics to it. 
And it's it's unbelievable. 

292
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,000
And a lot of the times, you 
know, we'll get the teachers 

293
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,440
like, hey, you need to watch out
for this kid. 

294
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,960
He's a real troublemaker. 
And he'll and he or she will end

295
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,080
up usually being the best one in
the class because it's just 

296
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,040
hands on actively doing 
something and they love it. 

297
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,240
So, so you go in there with a 
class, you know, let's just say,

298
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,720
you know, teacher Johnson or 
whoever it is, you come into 

299
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,520
their class, you start this 
thing. 

300
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,680
What's the length of of a single
boat build and how does this 

301
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,320
work? 
Do you just deal with one group 

302
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,320
of kids? 
If you deal with a different 

303
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,640
group of kids, kind of run us 
through like a just let's just 

304
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,520
take one build for one class 
that you. 

305
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,520
Do it's super flexible depending
on the school, we try to be as 

306
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,440
flexible as possible with the 
the kids. 

307
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,080
So sometimes we're building the 
classroom, sometimes it's 

308
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,160
outside. 
We built in a janitor's closet 

309
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,760
before anywhere we can fit. 
So we, we have all the means to 

310
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,520
build anywhere where they can 
have, they have us be. 

311
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,880
And then the school sometimes 
will work with 100 kids 

312
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,640
throughout the bill. 
Bill takes 5 to 6 days, the 

313
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,000
older kids usually 5, younger 
kids usually 6. 

314
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,080
And so if it's like 100 kids 
will get groups of eight kids 

315
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,840
for 45 minutes to an hour and 
then switching. 

316
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,480
And so maybe you they work for 
one day and then skip a couple 

317
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,560
days and you see them again. 
And then with the smaller 

318
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,560
groups, a lot of the Montessori 
schools, we'll work with like 30

319
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,880
kids. 
So we split them up in the ten 

320
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,240
groups with three, you know, 
three groups of 10. 

321
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,680
And we work with them every day 
for an hour and a half. 

322
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,840
So really the the teachers and 
the principals create the 

323
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,240
schedule for it. 
And we just are like, hey, send 

324
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,480
us kids and we'll build this 
boat. 

325
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,800
And they kind of get a taste of 
every level. 

326
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,960
Yeah. 
The process of the of building 

327
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,520
the canoe. 
So you know, kids not going to 

328
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,960
go there at the very beginning 
as you as you put together your 

329
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,800
first strip and never see the 
boat again until the very. 

330
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,400
End not usually it can depending
on the how big of a school we 

331
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,880
work with. 
But now we're getting to the 

332
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,320
point and we have the staff. 
So if they have 250 kids, we'll 

333
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,960
do 2 boats at the same time and,
and make sure everyone's getting

334
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,600
more like more involved than 
just once. 

335
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,480
So how many boat builds do you 
think you're doing this school 

336
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,680
year? 
Well, we have our Cincinnati 

337
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,400
chapter. 
We also have our Minneapolis 

338
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,200
chapter. 
Now with that Abby Orrons kind 

339
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,680
of heading up and she goes to 
ODK. 

340
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,000
So they do, I want to say they 
did 20 ish boats this year 

341
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,600
maybe, probably I'm 
underestimating maybe 25. 

342
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,320
And then the Urban Lawyers 
program in Cincinnati did I 

343
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,400
think 30. 
So we're doing about 45 builds 

344
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,480
from August to May, and then 
littered with field trips in 

345
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,240
between that two as well. 
Yeah, right. 

346
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,920
Because in the winter time, if 
if you do a you got to do a 

347
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,520
field trip either before or 
after. 

348
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:43,840
Yeah. 
Like if we're building the boat 

349
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,440
in December with the like group,
a group in Delhi would build in 

350
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,520
December and we got their field 
trip in a couple weeks. 

351
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,040
So, you know, it's great when 
that's in the fall and spring 

352
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,280
where they can build the boat 
and go, you know, right out to 

353
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,320
the river. 
But sometimes, you know, weather

354
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,800
dictates well, we'll push them 
back till May or April and get 

355
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,680
them in there. 
And it's from what I can 

356
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,760
understand, it's, it's going to 
be hard to keep up with 

357
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,760
everything because I, you know, 
we, we had lunch, like I said 

358
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,200
with this, with this great 
Kuchelum today, Greg Morris. 

359
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,640
And he had some great questions 
and he was talking about, have 

360
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,880
you had anybody that said, Hey, 
we don't want you back? 

361
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,480
And you said no. 
No, not no. 

362
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,319
Never. 
Everybody is welcoming to Heavy 

363
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:24,800
back now, maybe every other 
year. 

364
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,280
Yeah, because sometimes they'll 
work with a 5th and 6th grade 

365
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,800
combined. 
So and that, you know, if we 

366
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,720
build again, we're working that 
fifth grade had already built a 

367
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,560
boat and they need to save money
to school. 

368
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,120
So it's a biannual or every 
other year. 

369
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,960
So almost every school we've 
ever been to, we've been invited

370
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,640
back. 
And even the schools, you know, 

371
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,880
sometimes we, the teacher leaves
and we lose contact for a year, 

372
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,280
but then they always end up, you
know, once they settle their own

373
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,120
stuff, they get us back in 
there. 

374
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,760
OK. 
So and, and we have a new 

375
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,760
building, we have a, we're going
to have our first, what do I 

376
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,520
want to call home base, so to 
speak. 

377
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,480
I mean, we've been working out 
of a trailer. 

378
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,800
Yeah, the trail, the mobile 
makerspace is awesome. 

379
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,360
We're able to, you know, pull up
to any school and just build in 

380
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,600
their parking lot. 
A lot of the inner City Schools 

381
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,200
don't have a class that we can 
just take over for a week, so we

382
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,000
can pull it right up into their 
parking lot in a grass patch and

383
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,960
build out there. 
But our milling process where 

384
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,600
we, you know, kind of the behind
the scenes of before you go to a

385
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,320
boat build, we have to mill all 
the pieces. 

386
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,080
So it's not just a kit we have 
ready. 

387
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,200
We have to make the kit. 
So we go, Luke is the bigger 

388
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:33,720
person that does this, but he'll
go to the lumber store, grab a 

389
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,120
bunch of boards, mill them down 
into like kits, and then we 

390
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,760
bring the kids to the to the 
school. 

391
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,040
And that is still currently at 
my mom's house. 

392
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,640
So my, my mom's garage has been 
our home base for maybe six 

393
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,840
years now. 
And so she hasn't had a garage 

394
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,440
in a while, but now we're having
the Robert Shuman Urban Learner 

395
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,280
Center being built at right 
behind Aiken High School and so.

396
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,840
That will take the place of your
mom's. 

397
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,760
Garage that will take the place 
in my mom's garage. 

398
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,440
Where we mill everything and get
everything constructed and then 

399
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,520
you'll still use the mobile 
piece and. 

400
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,960
We'll still use the mobile 
makerspace to go out. 

401
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,000
To go out on the road to the 
different schools. 

402
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,840
To yeah. 
And then also just bring like 

403
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,320
what Luke does in our shop with 
a table saw, bandsaw, miter saw 

404
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,600
and really the the more heavy 
machine tools, we want to 

405
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,040
incorporate that into our 
curriculum. 

406
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,520
So having kids at Aiken High 
School come as a class and help 

407
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520
us mill these kits and get life 
skills and how it's basically 

408
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,760
like a woodshop class with more 
engineering and also showing 

409
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,440
them how to camp as well. 
So we'll do, you know, one class

410
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,480
is like, hey, we're in the shop,
we're working kind of like 

411
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,080
projects class at camp, and then
maybe the next day we'll go 

412
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,280
outside and do friction fires. 
So it's almost like blending in 

413
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,320
projects and woodsmanship 
together at Aiken High School 

414
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,520
with kids from their class. 
And you've been doing this for 

415
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,880
how long now? 
I I came on full time in 2020 so

416
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,480
this is my 6th year. 
OK. 

417
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,720
And it's taken well. 
I mean, what do you see down the

418
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,040
road you're in? 
We're in Cincinnati right now. 

419
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:00,960
We're in Minneapolis. 
Getting in there or in there? 

420
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,760
We're in there pretty good. 
I guess so 20. 20 This is our 

421
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,320
second year in Minneapolis and 
then we already got confirmed 

422
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,800
for next year in Minneapolis. 
We're going to have 38 builds I 

423
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,360
believe. 
So we're going to have more 

424
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,040
staff in Minneapolis and then 
our Cincinnati program also 

425
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,960
travels. 
So we've gone to Chicago, Saint 

426
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,080
Louis, South Carolina, Oklahoma.
We're going to Virginia this 

427
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,640
year. 
We want to target, you know, 

428
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,640
almost anything between the East
Coast and like Kansas City and 

429
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,000
Oklahoma, and, you know, the 
future is really bright. 

430
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,840
We're looking at a lot of grant 
opportunities and maybe starting

431
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,200
our own chapters in Chicago, 
Boston, Denver and San 

432
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,080
Francisco. 
Similar to what you have in 

433
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:40,560
Cincinnati. 
Similar to what we have in 

434
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:41,520
Cincinnati in. 
Minneapolis. 

435
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,880
But for now, those other cities 
work. 

436
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,960
We we got our Cincinnati crew 
traveling to all those. 

437
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,080
But if we can get enough going, 
we'll make some more hires. 

438
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,800
Yeah, which are all built in. 
In the all. 

439
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,360
Current staff members. 
Members. 

440
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,720
ODK alumni, yes. 
And it keeps them a part of 

441
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:00,480
camp. 
As well. 

442
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,160
It's it's kind of like the next,
it's the newest, you know, back 

443
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,520
in the when I was a camper, you 
know, a lot of the leadership or

444
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,400
teachers and teachers maybe is 
now a less desirable job. 

445
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,760
And so this is another way to, 
you know, make a career and make

446
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,240
a full time living, but also 
being able to come back to camp 

447
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,960
every year and build our 
leadership team at our. 

448
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,680
Camps and in a way you still are
teaching. 

449
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,400
You got a bunch of. 
Yeah, you are teaching. 

450
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,320
But it's an totally doesn't have
walls. 

451
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,080
Yeah, it doesn't have walls or 
outside. 

452
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,440
And you know, a lot of the 
teachers we work with is like, 

453
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,400
you should really consider 
getting the education. 

454
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,800
These kids love you and like, 
well, I only, I only show up for

455
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,240
a week. 
I'm like the All Star for the 

456
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,840
week and then I get to leave. 
I'm sure if I was, you know, at 

457
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,600
the same place for 8:00 eight 
months, it would be different. 

458
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,040
But I love the, you know, you're
like the All Star with these 

459
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,480
kids for like a week and then 
you're out to the next school. 

460
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,560
And they love it. 
They absolutely love it. 

461
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,360
Yeah, and I'm and we're here at 
the camp office today talking. 

462
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:52,880
And I'm sure as you walk through
the for those that have been to 

463
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,680
the office, you see all the 
thank you notes that the kids 

464
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,800
have said. 
That's going to make you feel 

465
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,880
really good to see all those 
notes up. 

466
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,960
There, that's not even all of 
them. 

467
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,880
We have a stockpile. 
Those are the display ones. 

468
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,080
Yeah. 
We get hundreds of thank you 

469
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,840
notes a year. 
And, you know, we work with this

470
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,800
year, I think we're slotted to 
work with 4000 students and it's

471
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,040
only going up from there. 
So we're working with, you know,

472
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,680
more schools and more school 
kids every year. 

473
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,400
It's almost, you know, 
exponential growth every year. 

474
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,360
And so that's what's so you. 
You touched 4000 students this 

475
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:24,880
year. 
By the time the end of school 

476
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,000
year hits, you'll have worked 
with four. 

477
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,640
Thousand Yeah. 
Minneapolis and Cincinnati 

478
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,520
programs combined will have 
worked with 4000 students. 

479
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,520
That's amazing. 
Yeah, that's that's touching a 

480
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,600
lot of a lot of them. 
So, you know, hopefully that 

481
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,840
makes it makes sense to me. 
Hopefully people can follow 

482
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,480
that. 
You know, I'm sure it's, you 

483
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,480
know, we've got the camp Kuchi 
Ching, we've got Campo kitschy 

484
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,920
dock way with the, with the 
women, the boys and the girls. 

485
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240
And now this urban wilderness 
thing that takes part takes 

486
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,840
place more in the winter time 
and then you're back up in the 

487
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,400
summertime like all the other 
workers with the with the urban 

488
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,520
wilderness are back on staff in 
the summer. 

489
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,320
You know, get here to Kuchi 
Chang for the rest of summer. 

490
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:08,000
So not long ago, I mean a little
while ago, we acquired a camp in

491
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:15,360
Canada up on Barrel Lake. 
I yeah, it's all Wakonsi, I know

492
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,520
that, but I was going to try to.
Think of Atticoken. 

493
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,160
Atticoken 40 minutes east of 
Atticoken. 

494
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,920
OK, so I knew it was all 
Wakonsi. 

495
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,360
I've been up there, I've seen it
and visited. 

496
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,560
But this was a camp that existed
for some years and I think had 

497
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,560
not been functioning since the 
70s maybe or 80s or. 

498
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,200
Something like Terry Jones, 
who's alumni of Oakland and 

499
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,880
Kuchicheng there that the 
original owners or that program 

500
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,800
ended. 
I want to stay in the 70s and 

501
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,880
then it actually started back up
again in the 90s as a Boys Hope 

502
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,080
program. 
And then I think that kind of 

503
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,120
closed down in the late 90s, 
early 2000s and then I believe 

504
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:53,440
we acquired it in 2016. 2016 
Yep, Yep. 

505
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,600
It was gifted to us and we've 
taken it over and now we've got 

506
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,040
that that property on a lake 
that you have to boat to, just 

507
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,360
like you do to Deer Island. 
But tell us about this place and

508
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,640
who goes there during the summer
and for how long and what's 

509
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:09,760
going on there. 
Yeah. 

510
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,280
So it's almost intertwined with 
the urban Learners program. 

511
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,640
The students we work with, with 
the Urban Learners program in 

512
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,360
the schools have the opportunity
to do a seven day kind of 

513
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,120
excursion at oh Kanzi, where 
it's a almost like Bantam camp. 

514
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:23,640
I'd say, You know, it's very 
light. 

515
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,800
You're taking 10 kids from the 
inner city. 

516
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,960
That or really anywhere that 
never been canoeing or camping 

517
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,680
and you drop them off in Ocansi 
and it's it's a lot more remote 

518
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,000
than Kuch Ching. 
There's you're not seeing 

519
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,320
another cabin on the lake, 
you're not seeing another boat. 

520
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,040
It's like, Oh my gosh, we're out
here. 

521
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,160
And they'll plan their own 
route, pack their own food. 

522
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,600
And so the first couple days are
similar to the cruising school 

523
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,400
and then they go on a one or two
night trip and they get to 

524
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,200
decide. 
It's really like, Hey, do you 

525
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,240
guys want one night and meet 
more chill or do you want to two

526
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,360
nights or where do you want to 
go to? 

527
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,440
Do you want to push? 
It's more of a leadership 

528
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,160
focused class for those students
that were there. 

529
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,240
It's like, Hey, this is your 
trip, let's do what you want to 

530
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,200
do. 
And then they come back and they

531
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,720
have fun. 
There's a gym, there's a ball 

532
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,560
field and then they're back to 
Cincinnati or wherever they come

533
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,320
from. 
So how many kids? 

534
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:11,880
A session, so to speak, usually.
So last year I think we had 50 

535
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,920
kids the whole summer and it's 
usually one week and that group 

536
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,960
will be between 8 and 14. 
Students, they come for a week. 

537
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,480
Yeah, 7 days. 
And then this year, we're slated

538
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,560
to have around 70 or 80s between
70 and 80. 

539
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,000
And we're really working with 
Operation Breakthrough and we 

540
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,120
have kids from Operation 
Breakthrough that come up to our

541
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,520
camps and work at our camps. 
And they got a grant 

542
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,320
opportunity. 
So they're going to send seven 

543
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,520
trips with 10 kids each cycling 
through like similar age groups 

544
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,360
and genders to our camps. 
And they've been doing, having 

545
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:46,880
a, they've been going up the old
Kanzi for the last three years 

546
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,600
now, I have to say. 
And they absolutely love it. 

547
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,040
And it's a great introduction to
our camps because, you know, we,

548
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,160
we the urban lawyers program 
also offers for scholarships 

549
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,320
throughout the year where kids 
that have worked on the boat or 

550
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,560
have gone on a field trip or 
worked with us in any way can 

551
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,000
and have the opportunity that go
up to our summer camps, ODK and 

552
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,120
Kuchi Chang for free for four, 
you know, a first session. 

553
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,880
And, but even if you're a great 
at boat building and love the 

554
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,160
field trip, you know, 4 weeks at
camp, it can be really tough. 

555
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,000
And especially if you're a 
junior or an immediate going one

556
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,280
of those longer day trips, 
you're like, you can kind of 

557
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,280
shell shocked. 
And so, you know, we're hoping 

558
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,240
that, Oh, Kanzi can be almost 
the bridge between urban lawyers

559
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,240
program and coming up to our 
camps where, you know, this is 

560
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,280
kind of what it's like. 
And then you don't get a real 

561
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,080
feel for the outdoors and being 
out. 

562
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,440
There, how has that been 
received? 

563
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,880
And these are all these are all 
urban wilderness kids that are 

564
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,720
going to Owa Kanzi. 
Correct. 

565
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000
And so how has that been 
received the kids that leave 

566
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,320
from Cincinnati or whatever, 
they go up to Barrow Lake up in 

567
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,200
up in Canada, How for that week 
if they. 

568
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,920
They joined that. 
They absolutely love it. 

569
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640
They love it. 
Yeah, absolutely love it. 

570
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,760
They're they're disconnected, 
You know, I think a lot of 

571
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,400
people, you know, from what I've
heard from the the staff, 

572
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,600
they're up there. 
It's a lot of different reasons.

573
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,160
Sometimes they love the 
serenity, sometimes they love 

574
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,440
the hardness of it. 
And it's you can, oh, cons, you 

575
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,280
can really find what you want to
do is not as strict of a 

576
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,840
schedule at the as our camps. 
And it's just different because,

577
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,880
you know, if it was the same, 
there'd be no reason to have it.

578
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,800
But you know, having that kind 
of gap between what our camps 

579
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,240
provide and what Urban Learners 
program vibes, it's like a 

580
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,160
stepping stone. 
And the kids absolutely have a 

581
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,960
blast. 
Now, are you up there for each 

582
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,240
week that those kids are up? 
There. 

583
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,120
No, because I'm still at camp. 
That's what I was going to. 

584
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,080
Say so. 
Who's running that up there? 

585
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,960
It's it's kind of like the 
father son trip. 

586
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,600
So I, I get alumni from 
Kuchicheng and ODK that, you 

587
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,720
know, aren't at the camps 
anymore but can spare a week and

588
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,160
they go up and teach the kids. 
So you're still, they're still 

589
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,200
teaching them all the cooch and 
ODK, you know, tripping style, 

590
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,760
but just in a very, you know, 
calm way, in a very time, 

591
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,800
relaxed manner. 
And there's everyone's on the 

592
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,640
same level from day one when 
they step on the island and then

593
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:56,440
from there. 
Yeah. 

594
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,800
And then teacher that teachers 
and chaperones they also bring 

595
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,800
up so you know. 
They're all from the schools. 

596
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,880
Yeah, there's other adults, OK. 
Yeah, and they help them as far 

597
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,120
as travel to get there. 
Travel to get there, like I'm 

598
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:11,200
more of a disciplinary person 
because the guys are there that 

599
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,280
have fun with the kids and teach
them and then this, you know, 

600
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,080
this adults are there to be 
like, hey, we're all on the same

601
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,120
level, we're all enjoying 
ourselves and yeah, everything's

602
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:21,400
going. 
Well, and a lot of them fly 

603
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,760
drive, I mean it's all, but all 
their transportation is up to 

604
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,280
them. 
Yeah, so Operation Breakthrough 

605
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,800
drives we do. 
So oh, Kanzi is pretty hard to 

606
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,880
get to. 
But if they can, we say if they 

607
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,120
can get the International Falls,
then we have our transportation 

608
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:38,960
team, you know, at the 
foundation house and they we can

609
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,720
supplement transportation. 
And help them get up from from 

610
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,800
there to the to the to the site 
up there and it'll that's great.

611
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,800
I mean, I think it's I think 
it's neat. 

612
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,040
I think and and you know, the 
fact that there's, you know, 

613
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,040
scholarships there for kids from
that program at Coochie and or 

614
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,280
of Gichi's is great too. 
If have you seen those kids that

615
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,080
have received those of those? 
Yeah, yeah, we've had. 

616
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,240
And have they have they enjoyed 
their time at? 

617
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,160
Yeah, we've had some come even 
come up on staff now. 

618
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,000
So it's a real full circle. 
I think one of the kids from 

619
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,720
Coochie Ching, when I first met 
him, it was my first, one of my 

620
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,240
first years doing the canoe 
build. 

621
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,240
And he's as old as I was when I 
first did that canoe build when 

622
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,880
I first met him. 
And now he's, you know, 21 or 

623
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,920
22, and he was coming up to camp
for a couple years. 

624
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,240
Now he's doing his own thing in 
Cincinnati, but I still keep in 

625
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:33,800
touch with him. 
He's a great guy. 

626
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,240
Well, I, I, I think it's a 
great, you know, obviously for, 

627
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,240
you know, traditional guys, 
which I am, you know, you're 

628
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,080
like, OK, wait a minute. 
This used to be just Cam Kutcher

629
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,880
saying what's going on here? 
What's this all about? 

630
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,800
How does this work? 
And when I first heard about, 

631
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,360
I'm like, I'm not sure exactly 
how it works, but I mean, as 

632
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,360
I've gone on and learned all 
this and hearing all this and 

633
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,800
even more, I've learned from you
today. 

634
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,040
I think it's a great thing. 
And I know a lot of people that 

635
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,440
I've talked to are very 
interested in it. 

636
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,160
The guy we met with today was 
very interested. 

637
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,240
I had tons of questions about 
it, thinks it's a great model. 

638
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,920
And you know, I think this 
thing's going to have, it's 

639
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,680
going to continue to grow and 
and really be beneficial for 

640
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,440
kids and certainly in today's 
world or kids need camp or urban

641
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,200
wilderness or old Kanzi of 
Getchi or Cooch more than ever 

642
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,400
before to get away from their 
darn phones and their screen 

643
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,080
time. 
Yeah. 

644
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,120
And we're just expanding and 
expanding and Cooch and ODK are 

645
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,200
coming with us every where we 
go. 

646
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,880
We'd like, what do you guys do? 
It's like we, we build boats, 

647
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,240
but this we also like. 
This is how we all got started 

648
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,360
in this profession. 
This is what we love to do. 

649
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,600
We if you're interested, we'll 
give you more information and. 

650
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,360
For the bigger camps so. 
For the bigger camps for the 

651
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,080
Kuch Ching and OD caves like 
this is you know well how we how

652
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,280
we got all got into. 
This it's almost I mean, it's 

653
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,640
funny, as we started our 
conversation today, you talked 

654
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,840
about, you know, I remember 
hearing about the Bantam camp. 

655
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,120
I was already often my 
professional life, you know, 

656
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,040
done with camp working there. 
You know, as much as I hated to 

657
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,440
leave it, but and I heard about 
the band of camp, this is almost

658
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,400
what that is. 
Almost. 

659
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,080
Yeah, it's very similar. 
I mean, you're kind of just, 

660
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,200
you're giving them a taste. 
They may be a little bit older, 

661
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,320
but you're giving them a taste 
of the outdoors and then kind of

662
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,400
easing them in a little bit so 
they're not as in shock. 

663
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,320
Like you said, you know they 
should go out on a big trip or 

664
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,320
you know, you've kind of got a 
little bit going already. 

665
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,400
Yeah, exactly. 
I don't know if we did that. 

666
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,520
They didn't have the Bantam camp
at that time if my mom would 

667
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,720
have been ready to send me up. 
But you know, for 10 days, like 

668
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,800
I can send them up for 10 days 
and then it grew from there. 

669
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,160
I'm not sure if it would have 
been the same as like 04 weeks. 

670
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,320
I know that it can sound like a 
lot to a parent and not 

671
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,680
especially to an 8 year old. 
So just having another another 

672
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,520
gap, they get like, hey, what 
about if you like this, then, 

673
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:45,960
you know, another stepping 
stone. 

674
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,240
And I, it's interesting to hear 
the, and I totally get it, you 

675
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,680
know, I know it's different and 
I'm, this isn't a knock on 

676
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,320
anybody or anything. 
You know, camp back years ago, 

677
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,120
it was predominantly 8 weeks. 
It's all it was, you know, and, 

678
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,840
and then, and then they saw that
that was becoming a problem. 

679
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,720
So they almost went, they 
actually went to five weeks and 

680
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,760
they gave that a shot. 
And then it went to two four 

681
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,280
week sessions. 
And now that seems to be the big

682
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,000
time model. 
And what's rare is the 8 week 

683
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,800
person is, it's is, is the rarer
person more so than the four 

684
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,560
week sessions. 
But as I've talked to people 

685
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,800
that asked me what I do now that
I'm retired and, and back 

686
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,800
involved in doing this, you 
know, how long is the camp? 

687
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,800
And I said, well, it's either 4 
weeks or 8 weeks. 

688
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:32,720
And they said, well, I'll start 
with four weeks. 

689
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,160
You know, I'll say it's a, it's 
a four week. 

690
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,880
And the look on their face, like
there's no way. 

691
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,600
And I said what? 
You know, and they said that's 

692
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,920
too long. 
I said that goes by so fast you 

693
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,200
don't even know what hit you. 
No, you really don't. 

694
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,160
Just get on the island. 
And you're laying. 

695
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,160
Behind and you're stepping off 
the island. 

696
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,920
So I mean, and then I tell him 
that really us back in the in 

697
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,520
the 70s and stuff, we went, we 
went 8 weeks. 

698
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,000
And they just can't believe 
that, you know, and but to your 

699
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,120
point, you know, you know, moms 
would be like, whoa, hang on. 

700
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,640
I'm in eight weeks with my 9 
year old. 

701
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Are you crazy? 
There's no way. 

702
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,960
But it's still a great 
experience up there. 

703
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,840
And I think this is going to 
really open a lot more doors for

704
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,040
a lot more people, a lot more 
kids and families and etcetera, 

705
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,280
to be able to to experience, you
know, what these camps are about

706
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,320
and, and develop the leadership 
skills that I really think these

707
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,280
camps develop in young people. 
So. 

708
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,720
You're doing a great job, man. 
I think you really got to go on 

709
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,240
and I know there's a lot of 
people that are behind you and 

710
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,720
ready to help you with whatever 
you need. 

711
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,800
And, you know, we'll keep going 
out there to drum up the support

712
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,920
that you need and please. 
Oh yeah, we'll, we'll be out 

713
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,120
there and I, I think. 
They're very much grant funded. 

714
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,200
Yeah. 
Oh, I know. 

715
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,760
Yeah. 
Or donation funded. 

716
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,760
But you know, I don't want to 
step on COOCH or OD. 

717
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,200
No, no, no, no, no, there's 
people that are that are strong 

718
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,400
Cooch, you know, get you people 
that are that know about this 

719
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,320
and have a have a strong 
interest in it. 

720
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,240
So I think that they're they, 
they, they really like it and 

721
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,200
they'll, they'll, they'll spread
it around to to help support the

722
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,440
this moving forward. 
Let's go back to you trace. 

723
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,960
You know, you know your years, 
you've been up here a ton, Many,

724
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,920
many. 
Oh, wait, basically to now. 

725
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,600
Yeah, to still. 
I mean basically raised there 

726
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,000
almost, you know, I know this is
really deep in your blood and 

727
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,719
you went on the art one of the 
Arctic trips. 

728
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,400
Yeah, the Centennial life. 
And we've talked. 

729
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,920
Tell me who was on that? 
Trip It was me, Zach Armacost, 

730
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,800
Kyra Malloy, Roger Miller, Harry
Shook and Matt Collins. 

731
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,480
OK. 
And where did you guys go? 

732
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,440
We started in Fort Smith, just 
just north of Fort Smith on the 

733
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,440
Gray Slave River. 
Didn't paddled up the Gray 

734
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,800
Slave, then did Gray Slave River
and then paddled Gray Slave 

735
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,440
Lake. 
Then kind of a a bunch of 

736
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,880
different, you know, small lakes
and rivers until we got to the 

737
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,159
Copper mine. 
Then we kind of peeled off from 

738
00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:50,080
the Copper Mine on very Lake 
River and got to the Hood River.

739
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,719
And then we ended in Arctic 
Sound Bay in the, you know, 

740
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,520
nowhere. 
It was hard. 

741
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,280
Yeah, it was. 
It was. 

742
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,080
Did you like? 
It though, I mean, it was 

743
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,920
amazing, you know, the, the 
preparing and you know, getting 

744
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,680
the grant and doing all the 
sponsorships was the hardest 

745
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,120
part. 
And then getting out there it's 

746
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,240
like, oh, this is just another 
canoe trip and the, the 

747
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,560
definitely hard. 
You know, we got ice bound for 

748
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,800
almost a week and we're just, it
was the hottest week too. 

749
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,600
We're just sitting there like 
getting sun baked, sun baked and

750
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,360
the whole lake is frozen and ice
crazy. 

751
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,240
What is going? 
On ice bound, that's something 

752
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:25,360
we don't. 
Hear all the time that's not 

753
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,320
much and it's just like, well, 
luckily we had a drone, so we'd 

754
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,720
throw up the drone and find like
path, low paths in the lake from

755
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,640
the ice. 
I know it was incredible, but a 

756
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,160
lot of upstream, a lot of 
upstream walking like I've 

757
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,400
probably probably had three 
weeks of just upstream walking 

758
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,160
at different parts. 
So a lot of like old man types 

759
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,840
of the North knife, only only it
was just as cold if not colder 

760
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,880
and we got snowed on and. 
Oh boy. 

761
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:52,960
It was. 
Unbelievable. 

762
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,760
I took the knife, but I don't 
think the knife was the same 

763
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,080
when I took it the way they do 
it now. 

764
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,480
I. 
You never did, the old man. 

765
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,720
I think I had the the easier 
route on the knife. 

766
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,120
I think we got dropped off on 
Knife Head Lake so we were way 

767
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,920
further. 
Down. 

768
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Yeah, and but it's still still, 
I enjoyed it and I'm sure those 

769
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,600
guys you went with are great 
friends today. 

770
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,960
I mean, that's a bond that 
you'll have with friends 

771
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,720
forever. 
Yeah, it's unbelievable. 

772
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:15,080
Like, we still talk all the 
time. 

773
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,280
Matt Collins lives in Cincinnati
and him and I hang out all the 

774
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,760
time. 
And I have this picture at my 

775
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,720
desk, which is right over there 
now that we're in the office of 

776
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,280
my intermediate year. 
And you know, it's me, Matt 

777
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,720
Collins, Henry Kahn, and those 
are three guys in Cincinnati I 

778
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,320
hang out with. 
I think I saw him last week. 

779
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,720
That's unbelievable. 
And your counselor there was 

780
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,360
Bobby Ecker. 
Oh boy, yeah, I, I think out of 

781
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,360
my, you know, as a camper, I 
don't know how many canoe trips 

782
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,960
I did off the top of my head, 
but I think Bobby was either my 

783
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,200
like on my trip or my sister 
trip and we ended up mega 

784
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,440
tripping 10 of my trips as a 
camper. 

785
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,040
So he's definitely like, that's 
the guy that I learned how the 

786
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,320
canoe trip from for sure. 
Bobby's a good guy. 

787
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,600
I'm going to tell you a story 
about Bobby. 

788
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,120
Hopefully he hears. 
His I have a lot of stories of. 

789
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,000
Bobby. 
But what I mean, first of all, 

790
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,800
the Ecker family, I know a lot 
of them. 

791
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,720
His uncle Buzz, his Uncle Pat, 
his dad Mike. 

792
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,400
I had Bobby's brother Danny on a
couple of my trips in early 

793
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,360
2000s and Danny was just 
awesome, man. 

794
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,000
I mean, I had him on a trip, me 
and Steve Hindley. 

795
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,000
I came up and took a trip out 
with Steve Hindley. 

796
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,280
Danny was on it. 
And then Danny went on a trip 

797
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,320
with Bart Ballmer and myself in 
O2. 

798
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,480
Great guy. 
But on that trip with Bart 

799
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,080
Ballmer and he was telling me a 
story. 

800
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,640
I forget what the lake was and 
but they paddled across, they 

801
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,040
came out of a river into a lake 
and had to go cross the lake and

802
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,520
get into the mouth of the river 
again. 

803
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,600
It was just a just a, you know, 
river that was in the lake in 

804
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,240
the middle of it. 
Yeah. 

805
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,640
Well, it was bigger than the 
bottom of the lake. 

806
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,720
But but at the, at the mouth of 
the, of the, of the river they 

807
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,080
were entering into, it was a 
falls. 

808
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,160
It was a big old falls. 
And they stopped to eat lunch 

809
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,960
there. 
And they were sitting there and 

810
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,200
sitting there. 
And Bart looked over Bobby. 

811
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Bobby was like a junior or 
intermediate maybe at the most, 

812
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,520
I don't know what he was junior 
or something. 

813
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,440
And he looked over and Bart 
could see his gears rolling in 

814
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,680
his brain. 
He said, wait, wait, wait, wait,

815
00:38:08,720 --> 00:38:12,840
wait a minute, wait a minute. 
How is this lake not empty? 

816
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,920
Because he saw all the water 
going over there. 

817
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,520
We're like, well, Bobby there, 
there's water coming in from the

818
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:19,960
other end too, buddy. 
It's just going to. 

819
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,320
So Bart told me that story. 
I lost it. 

820
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,520
It was just so funny. 
Some of my most fun memories of 

821
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,520
as a camper was like Bobby and 
Steve Patterson messing around 

822
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,160
on canoe trips. 
I mean, it was so fun. 

823
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,760
We'd be in the, like, the most 
terrible situations and they'd 

824
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,240
just be, you know, pranking each
other and messing around. 

825
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:36,960
I'll just like, sit back and 
laugh at them. 

826
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,840
They're hilarious. 
And that's what I'll tell you. 

827
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,280
That's what makes a trip fun. 
Guys like Bobby Ecker, you know,

828
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,360
you can have the worst snow, 
rain, But if you've got some 

829
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,400
staff, guys that are are just 
guys around you, they're making 

830
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,840
it fun no matter what, making 
you laugh. 

831
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,760
And I don't care what the 
weather is, you're going to have

832
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,400
a great time. 
No, you don't even notice. 

833
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,240
You don't even notice. 
And that's what that's what 

834
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,360
having fun on canoe trips is all
about. 

835
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,160
And you know, the guys like 
Bobby make make that place his 

836
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,880
color, his personality, guys 
like him and Jamie Varley and 

837
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,080
Mike Walsh's. 
I mean, I'm just talking about 

838
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,680
guys that are older you that, 
but they that that color at camp

839
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,560
like that I think and I know it 
still goes on. 

840
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,080
Definitely. 
I've heard stories and I know 

841
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,240
there's some characters. 
Up there. 

842
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,240
And that's what we love and 
that's what we still need. 

843
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,480
And that's what makes that 
place, you know, so, so special.

844
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,960
So I'm going to ask you a couple
questions here in a minute, but 

845
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,800
before I was going to well, the 
other thing I did haven't talked

846
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,680
about yet is you got married 
this past summer. 

847
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,760
I did at the foundation. 
House at the foundation house 

848
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,160
and your wife now is Emily Case.
She goes by either one. 

849
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,400
Yeah, well, her first year at we
didn't meet at camp. 

850
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,840
We met at Cincinnati at the 
University of Mountaineering 

851
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,240
Club club here and out there. 
And then I brought her up to 

852
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,040
camp and her first year at ODK 
there was, I think there's 7 or 

853
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,280
8 Emily's. 
So then she went by K and now 

854
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,920
everyone at ODK calls her K, and
I still call her Emily. 

855
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,840
But yeah. 
So you guys, you met. 

856
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,960
You met up there? 
Oh no, you met. 

857
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,720
You met him? 
Yeah. 

858
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:11,440
OK. 
And was she going there? 

859
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,280
Was she already at OD? 
No, no where. 

860
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,880
We just met at college during 
COVID year. 

861
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,080
I was back and her, funny 
enough, her grandparents live in

862
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,480
Little Fork, which is a town 20 
minutes away from International 

863
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:23,800
Falls. 
So she'd go up there all the 

864
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,160
time. 
And that's how we kind of, you 

865
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,200
know, had a lot to talk about at
1st. 

866
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,920
And our first day was canoeing 
down the Little Miami River and 

867
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,600
it was great. 
And then I proposed on the 

868
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,680
Little Miami River in a canoe. 
And then we got married at the 

869
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,560
foundation out. 
So she's been working at ODK 

870
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,640
since 2021. 
That's when she started, yes. 

871
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,440
So she came in as a staff. 
Yep. 

872
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,360
OK, now has she taken the trip? 
She's on the girls expedition 

873
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,880
this coming up the edge of the 
Atlantic trip. 

874
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:55,320
Yes, OK with Catherine Heinle. 
Yeah, Annabelle, Maddie, Emmy 

875
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,680
Krill. 
I don't want to forget anyone. 

876
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,120
Abby Oren. 
That may have been 6. 

877
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,520
And there's, I think, one of my 
old couch buddies daughters 

878
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,440
there a while. 
What's? 

879
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:05,600
Annabelle. 
Yeah, Annabelle. 

880
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,680
OK, OK, well, that'll be a good 
trip. 

881
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:10,760
I just got from Catherine. 
I talked to Catherine about that

882
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,240
a little while ago. 
And, you know, maybe when they 

883
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:16,360
get back, we'll get all of those
guys on here, all those gals on 

884
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,400
here together once, once they 
get back from that trip. 

885
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,080
Yeah, that's exciting because I 
know they're excited. 

886
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,560
And I just got a little note 
from Catherine the other day, 

887
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,600
which was great. 
So, yeah, it was good. 

888
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,560
So anything else from camp? 
I mean that that sticks out to 

889
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,040
you that you liked? 
I mean, that people or stories 

890
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,320
or anything. 
I I know, I always ask. 

891
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,360
I think there's just so many, 
it's hard to like just say one 

892
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,440
there. 
I mean, at the end of our Arctic

893
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,680
trip, you know, Mac, we, we made
it to the Arctic Ocean and we're

894
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,760
just kind of sitting there. 
We had to, we paddled 3 clicks 

895
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,880
past our campsite to get, so we 
can say we're at the ocean 

896
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,600
because the camps, the airflow 
plane actually picks us up on 

897
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,400
the river. 
It's like, well, we got, you 

898
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,920
know, so it's like midnight now.
We finally made it to the ocean.

899
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,600
We're like taking it all in. 
And you know, some of the guys 

900
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,480
are pretty solemn, kind of like 
taking it all in. 

901
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,560
And Matt and I pull over to the 
the shore. 

902
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,920
He's like, wow, Now I can say 
I've been to the Arctic Ocean 

903
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,600
before. 
I'm like, well, you know, Hudson

904
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,360
Bay's in the Arctic Ocean. 
He looks at me. 

905
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:17,560
He's like, so I quit my job and 
went on this horrible trip just 

906
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,840
to just to see something I've 
already been to. 

907
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,880
And I was on the floor rolling. 
It was hilarious. 

908
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,080
But you've. 
Already been there, buddy. 

909
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,240
Yeah, that's funny. 
Well, let me ask you a couple of

910
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,040
these things. 
I just like throws a couple 

911
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,400
things out. 
Your favorite trip, not the 

912
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Arctic trip, but your favorite 
trip at Kuchicheng. 

913
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,880
Turn your time there. 
Oh man, you know can. 

914
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,600
You single one out. 
Of that, I don't even know if 

915
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,960
the routes necessarily matter. 
I think the the best trip I've 

916
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,600
ever done the the one I felt 
most accomplished was actually. 

917
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,480
And I think you could include my
Arctic trip in this is my first 

918
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,600
time being a trip head going 
down the flank cop go with Zach 

919
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,400
Armacost, who's on my Arctic 
trip, was my trip assistant and 

920
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,640
just the the sense of 
accomplishment of being like, Oh

921
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,200
my gosh, I successfully took all
these kids. 

922
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,920
Being a trip assistant is one 
thing. 

923
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,480
You know, you're kind of hanging
out, no real decision making or,

924
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:08,520
you know, because I was with 
older guys that like knew what 

925
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,160
they're doing. 
So I just kind of got the float 

926
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,280
back and you know, be the the 
manual labor. 

927
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,640
But the first time I was a trip 
head on my own trip and managed 

928
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,760
to get all the kids back and 
they all had a great time. 

929
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,720
And you know, we're paddling 
back to the salmon beaches like,

930
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,160
Oh my gosh, it's the most 
accomplished I've ever felt. 

931
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,640
My life What trip was that the 
Flint the. 

932
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,080
Flint, Kopka. 
OK, I've been on the Flint 

933
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:26,680
River. 
I didn't. 

934
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,840
I didn't know. 
Yeah, it's called the Flint. 

935
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,320
It's the intermediate trip, the 
Flint, and it ends in the kopka.

936
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,240
You do the mountain go Portage, 
you end in the same places like 

937
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,920
the Allen water ends where. 
That is my dad did that, but I 

938
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,640
we ended in Collins station on 
Collins Lake there and a train 

939
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,520
picked us up at. 
Yeah, so I think we go a little 

940
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,160
farther and maybe we start 
somewhere different, but the 

941
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,240
Flint, the Kopka first is like a
beautiful area. 

942
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,520
There's like all of a sudden you
don't even know you're in 

943
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,920
Ontario. 
It's like these huge walls of 

944
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,800
like huge mountains almost, and 
the beautiful waterfalls. 

945
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,640
And it's a great trip 
regardless, but you know, just 

946
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,960
being able to like my first trip
had finishing the trip, all my 

947
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,880
canoes are still there, you 
know, no major mess ups. 

948
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,800
Like, OK, I can do this. 
Like that is unbelievable. 

949
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,040
Now let's say you had. 
Have you been on English? 

950
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,080
I have been on the English. 
I've actually I've never done 

951
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,960
the English as a junior trip, 
though I did a college trip with

952
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,960
I was through Oak Kanzi. 
We used to do like almost, I'm 

953
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,760
not sure what it was part of a 
class where you do a 10 day trip

954
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:42,640
at O Kanzi and I was the leader 
with Geneva Webster, who from 

955
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,080
ODK and we had a bunch of UC 
students and we were out Kanzi 

956
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,080
and looking at the map and we're
kind of looking it's like, you 

957
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,120
know, I don't know if we want to
do any of these routes like, 

958
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:53,560
well, we have the van. 
Let's just go RIP the English. 

959
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,440
So what'd you do, Go to like 
flying loon or something? 

960
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,800
Or did you do the whole? 
Thing we did the whole thing. 

961
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,520
We started at the at the bridge 
and ended up doing the whole 

962
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,320
English with those called. 
That was my first time on the 

963
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,280
English. 
And then I also did the English 

964
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:10,320
as a staff trip in 2022, the 
year, the year of the flood 

965
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,760
where first session was 
cancelled. 

966
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,200
So we did staff trips and I LED 
the English then with a bunch of

967
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,520
staff guys and then as an 
intermediate, I actually did 

968
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,920
maybe an intermediate or senior 
year we did. 

969
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,160
I've done 3 Oakanzi Englishes 
before I was even affiliated 

970
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,560
with Oakanzi. 
We started at the pickup where 

971
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,240
where how you get the Oakanzi 
and we do, you know, kind of the

972
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:35,760
same river and kind of some 
Beaver and stuff and get into 

973
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,200
the start of the English and 
then do the whole English. 

974
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,960
I've never done the the 10 day 
junior English trip. 

975
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,200
I've been on the English. 
A lot, but you've been down 

976
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,320
there English River, you've been
down, you've you've sat and 

977
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,640
you've gone down loggers, which 
is a yeah, traditional. 

978
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,840
So you're sitting at the at the,
at the at the top of loggers. 

979
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200
If you had to pick one person to
be in your bowel right now, who 

980
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,200
would it be? 
Matt Collins. 

981
00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:57,760
Matt Collins, All right. 
And and. 

982
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,720
Without hesitation. 
Well, he, you know, he weighs 

983
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:05,360
just as much as me now and he 
won't mind me saying that blown 

984
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,600
up like a balloon. 
But our chemistry on on Rapids 

985
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,160
is unbeatable. 
Me and him, you know, on our 

986
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,080
Arctic trip, Kira, Kira was in 
my bow for a couple times and 

987
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,040
Kira and I were the only swamps 
on our Arctic trip. 

988
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,360
We swamped, swamped twice and we
had to look at each other like, 

989
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,480
man, we're just not a good team.
And, you know, I think me and 

990
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,480
him approach Rapids, it's very 
different. 

991
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,080
So like, I want to go right to 
the left to keep a rock and Kier

992
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,520
wants to go left of the rock. 
And so it's like we end up 

993
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,120
hitting the rock where Matt, 
Matt and I like, you know, we've

994
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,840
been tripping together for a 
really long time. 

995
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,520
And we just, we just understand 
what we how we how we operate in

996
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:40,080
a rapid. 
Yeah. 

997
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,680
Yeah. 
So one more question I'm going 

998
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,800
to ask you and this is basically
back at camp. 

999
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,920
You know, obviously the tripping
is the big thing out there, but 

1000
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,920
is there a certain camp since 
the time you were a young kid 

1001
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,960
till now, any activity at camp 
that really stands out that you 

1002
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,880
really enjoyed more than it 
could be anything too? 

1003
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,080
Man, I don't know, I I got my 
Camp K and archery as a CIT, but

1004
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,600
I never really even liked 
archery. 

1005
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:10,040
I was just pretty good at it. 
Quinas Drennan, who is a staff 

1006
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,560
member there for a while, would 
give me his bow, which was a 

1007
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,800
harder pullback so I didn't have
to aim as much. 

1008
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,440
I just let it RIP. 
I mean, it could be an evening, 

1009
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,040
it could be an afternoon, it 
could be a client. 

1010
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,400
I mean, is there anything that 
jumps out? 

1011
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,760
Not really. 
I love like the new, the new 

1012
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,040
game command and Conquer is 
always super fun where it's, you

1013
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,560
know, 4 factions and the there's
a counselor as the head of each 

1014
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,640
faction and you're kind of 
spread out around the island. 

1015
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,240
OK, you got a sock in your back 
like as like a flag football 

1016
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,400
sock and you got to go pull the 
cat like the the factions sock. 

1017
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,640
And if you pull the leader sock,
that team becomes absolved into 

1018
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,760
your team. 
And I love being the the faction

1019
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,160
head for, you know, one, I'd go 
climb up like a 40 foot tree and

1020
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,360
just hide out. 
And then I remember once, you 

1021
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,480
know, it was 3, like all the 
other factions have been caught.

1022
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,640
So it's three. 
You know, if you think of all of

1023
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,520
camp divided in the four 
segments is what, 2/3 or 3/4 of 

1024
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,440
1, like of camp versus 1/4 of 
the camp, right, right. 

1025
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:10,480
And I'm just up in my tree 
hiding. 

1026
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400
No one can find me. 
All of my whole team's out and 

1027
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,800
they blow the horn because they 
like they're like, OK, we can't 

1028
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,120
find Trey. 
So I climb down and then we all 

1029
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,960
gather around the big ball 
field. 

1030
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,640
It's like, OK, the three 
counselors versus the one 

1031
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,440
counselor. 
And it was I was going to get up

1032
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,080
against Joe Gallagher, who named
Crazy Joe, Sam Molten and Dima 

1033
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,440
Warner, I believe. 
And I'm like, I'm going to get 

1034
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,400
out, but I'm going to tackle one
of you guys really hard. 

1035
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,520
I think Sam Molten got the got 
the brunt of that tackle. 

1036
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,120
And then I was, you know, 
immediately out there. 

1037
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,560
Oh, I love that game. 
That's. 

1038
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,200
Good. 
Yeah, that's a new one that's 

1039
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,040
newer than. 
Yeah, I don't. 

1040
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,080
I never played it when I was a 
camper either, but it's a newer 

1041
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,680
1 and it's one of my favorites. 
That's great. 

1042
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:52,200
Well, I'm going to, I'm going to
reach out and say that if 

1043
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,760
anybody, Matt, or anybody we 
talked about on this, if they 

1044
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,720
want to call in to Mike Walsh or
e-mail me or Mike Walsh who 

1045
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,520
produces all this and do a 
little recorder to dispute any, 

1046
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,080
any story or anything that we've
talked about today. 

1047
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,960
Feel free to do so or add 
whatever you like. 

1048
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,760
We always invite people calling 
in. 

1049
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,160
That's no problem at all. 
But Trace, congratulations on 

1050
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,240
your wedding, on your new 
marriage to you and you and 

1051
00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:22,680
Emily and I look forward to 
getting her on here, you know, 

1052
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,200
once they get back from that 
trip to hear those. 

1053
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,880
Stories and. 
We're we're excited for you and 

1054
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,920
where this urban wilderness and 
all the Conti's going. 

1055
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,480
And I think we got the right guy
running that and you know, we 

1056
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,880
can't wait to see where it heads
to, keeps going to. 

1057
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,720
And you know, the fact that you 
touch 4000 kids this year is 

1058
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:43,080
amazing and it's not going to go
down. 

1059
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,720
It's going to go up. 
It's only going. 

1060
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Up. 
It's only going up. 

1061
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,800
And, you know, we can't wait to 
see where it goes And, and, and 

1062
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,400
try to get more kids up to up 
north. 

1063
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,320
And if any alumni listen to 
this, our teachers are 

1064
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,920
affiliated with schools or 
organizations that, you know, a 

1065
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,160
boat build might fit in their 
curriculum or something they're 

1066
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,800
interested in. 
Definitely reach out to CF, 

1067
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,760
Reach out to me and we'll get. 
That's great. 

1068
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,520
Absolutely. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1069
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,120
And that's, that's, that's what 
we have to lean on is our, is 

1070
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:10,880
our alumni. 
You know that to help us. 

1071
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,920
And and I don't know if you're 
looking for any to go up to for 

1072
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,800
the week of for a week of. 
We're booked this summer. 

1073
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,920
For for people up at. 
Up at Old Kanzi. 

1074
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,680
But yeah, staff opportunities at
Old Kanzi, if you want to do a 

1075
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,880
family trip, we could we could 
talk about. 

1076
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,920
It that's great, that's great. 
Will you guys know how to reach 

1077
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,080
us? 
But Trace again, thanks again 

1078
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,520
for joining me today. 
This was great, very, very 

1079
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,760
informative and you know, you 
know, look forward to seeing 

1080
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,640
where this continues to head in 
the future and being a part of 

1081
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,560
it. 
So thanks again buddy. 

1082
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,240
Thanks for having me. 
All right, Thank you. 

1083
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:42,840
Yep, see ya.