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On today's episode from the 
Great Central Fire, it was an 

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absolute pleasure for me to sit 
down and and visit with our 

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current CEO and current 
president, Hugh Haller. 

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Long time friend, a long time 
Kuchalam and we great. 

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We covered some great topics, 
you know, starting with John 

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Holden, he grew up right close 
to John. 

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A trip with John down the Pigeon
River. 

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He actually was mentioned my 
father and and his influence and

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tells a funny story about an 
obstacle course on the island. 

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We shared stories about our 
friend Steve Hinely. 

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A trip he had with Steve back in
the early 80s. 

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Talks about how we he 
reconnected and got back 

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involved with camp after a long 
time away. 

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We covered the background on the
Native American program and the 

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changes being made, and we also 
covered what lies ahead in the 

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strength of where camp is today.
Our urban wilderness is a great 

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program. 
He covered and he closed with 

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some important thoughts about 
changes in the leadership. 

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So sit back, relax, and I hope 
you enjoy this great episode 

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with Hugh Haller. 
Hello, everybody from the Great 

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Central Fire. 
This will be a great 1 today, 

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certainly for me. 
We're we're, we have a guest on 

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today that many of you know and 
I've known for a while, was a 

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camper for a while. 
And we'll get into all this. 

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But I want to welcome our 
current President and CEO of the

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Camping and Education 
Foundation, Hugh Haller. 

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Hugh, great to have you on 
today, buddy. 

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Jeff, it's an honor to be on and
and just share this platform 

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with you, my friend. 
Oh yeah. 

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Oh yeah. 
Listen to a couple of these 

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podcasts already and and you're 
killing it. 

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So I know that folks are are 
enjoying it and it's just great 

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to have you back in the fold. 
So thank you. 

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Yeah, well, it's great to tell 
stories. 

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I mean, I, I could go on and on.
And what we're going to get into

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is right around my younger days,
but I, I remember all of it. 

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We're going to talk about it. 
I, I do want to mention you. 

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You started as a camper in 1970.
I, I don't want an age or 

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anything, but I was 2. 
But but seriously, from 70 to 

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76, then you're on staff for a 
few years. 

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Why don't you, Why don't you 
just kind of go in about, and I 

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know there's a lot of family 
histories. 

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What the hell? 
Or I know this but but go in 

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about how your family came in 
and across camp and how it all 

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started for us. 
Certainly. 

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Well, you know it. 
It began in Cincinnati, OH, I 

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think I was 6 or 7, and I got 
involved in a Osaka Boys Club, 

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and that came about through my 
uncle. 

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I know, you know, my cousin 
Rick, who's been a part of camp 

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for a long time, and it's great 
to have him back. 

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But Rick's father, Richard 
Haller, my uncle, my father's 

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brother, was the one who first 
introduced me to the 

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organization and John Holden 
through the Wasaka Boys Club. 

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And I got involved in that one, 
as I said, when I was six or 

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seven in the middle 60s. 
And Wasaka was, you know, we 

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best way to say it or way to 
think about it was we, we 

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thought of ourselves as a kind 
of renegade Boy Scouts. 

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And I mean, you know, so many 
stories and so much fun, so many

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great counselors that I know, 
you know, the names of, you 

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know, going all the way back to,
you know, obviously people like 

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BJ and Ted Schroeder and the 
Keller brothers and on and on 

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and on. 
And it was such a brilliant 

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idea. 
And it, it actually didn't 

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start. 
It wasn't John's brainchild. 

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It actually goes all the way 
back to Jim Stone. 

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And that was passed on to 
Bernard Mason. 

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And then John took it over and 
John ran it for a number of 

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years. 
And it's certainly when I was 

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there as a kid. 
And it was such a a great idea 

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because not only did it kind of 
keep us off the streets and get 

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us involved in sports and one in
his camping because we did, you 

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know, weekend canoe trips and 
Indian dancing and crafts and 

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everything, but it was a 
wonderful feeder program into 

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Camp Coochie Chain. 
And that was really the 

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brainchild behind it. 
And that was what John had 

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envisioned. 
So I mean, he recruited so many 

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boys out of Wisaka Boys Club 
that went up to camp. 

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And, and so that's for me where 
it began. 

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John honestly was like became a 
second father to me. 

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I grew up two blocks from his 
house and every day on the way 

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home from school, we'd stop off 
and we'd shoot a little pool. 

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He taught me how to play a pool 
and help me with my homework. 

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I can't say that my my own 
relationship with my dad, like 

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many of us, was all that great 
back then. 

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So John kind of stepped in and 
was such an influence in my 

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early life. 
And, and then as I got a little 

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older and I think it was right 
around the time that you come 

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into the junior camp, because I 
wasn't a prep. 

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I started as a junior. 
John got me up to camp and you 

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know, and that began just an 
amazing journey for me. 

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And I think back to those days, 
you know, camp was everything 

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for me in my life and all the 
guys that I grew up with, Stevie

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J Stair, John Wildman and 
Erotimus, Matt Golub, on and on 

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and on, Steve Merritts and so 
many great counselors, Rich 

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Thompson and Mike Ecker. 
Brad Smith, Mark, excuse me, 

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Mark Smith, Archie Smith, gosh, 
Rob Schoss. 

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I saw Rob Schoss. 
I hadn't seen Rob Schoss in 50 

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plus years, Jeff. 
And you know, one of the best 

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parts of my role is and you 
know, this is just, you know, 

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not only telling stories, but 
actually going, seeing people I 

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connected with Rob, Rob, he was 
down, he's down in Texas. 

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And Rob was one counselor that I
remember, you know, above many 

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just because the guy was so 
frigging hilarious. 

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And he was, you know, kind of he
came to camp out of Colorado 

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holding it, recruited him to 
help run the backpacking 

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program. 
And shots was definitely, you 

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know, a hippie type, you know, 
long hair and goofy and just a 

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lot of fun. 
And so I, I found him in the 

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database and reached out to him 
and went to see him last year. 

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And now he's just an old hippie.
And it's still as funny and 

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hilarious as ever. 
But that's such a great part of 

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this role is reaching folks that
you know, for whatever reason, 

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you know, aren't engaged, aren't
involved, aren't connected. 

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And you think, hell, they were 
only at camp for a year or two. 

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They must not have liked it. 
And you walk into their office. 

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You walk into their house, and 
it's a shrine, you know, And 

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they got their token cards and 
their stories and bring out the 

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camp K. 
And you know what their Beaver 

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patch. 
And you're like, wow, yeah, you 

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actually did really love this. 
And then they go on and on and 

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go, damn, like, why didn't I 
come back? 

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Like, why the hell did I take 
that lifeguarding job? 

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You know, that was I think back 
on it and I should have come 

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back to Coot. 
So. 

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So those days were so memorable 
for me. 

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You know, Jeff, you know, this, 
that when we were there, it was 

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much simpler, right? 
I mean, there were maybe a 

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hundred, 120 kids there. 
And we were there for the whole 

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summer. 
You know, there was no four week

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program. 
You know, there was no 

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backpacking, there was no 
bicycling, although that did 

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come in while I was there for a 
couple of couple of years. 

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But you know what, we had one 
phone, we had one Model A Ford 

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truck. 
You know, Lulu would call us 

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from the office and it was just,
it was heaven. 

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And to grow up there and spend 
your summers up there and learn 

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all about the wilderness, learn 
about our Native American 

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program. 
All the trips that I took, I 

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think back some of the ones that
were most memorable for me, you 

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know, going both to the Fond du 
Lac and the Seal with Bob Meek 

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was, those were amazing trips. 
Bob still reminds me to this day

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that I wrapped a canoe on the 
seal and I don't think he'll 

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ever let me forget that one. 
But you know, one of my most 

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fond memories of trips were was 
with John, my wishes assistant. 

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And I think it was one of John's
very last trips. 

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And we went to the Pigeon River,
and I'll never forget this as 

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long as I live. 
I'd come across a Portage trail 

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and I was on my way back. 
And, you know, I see this 

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Grumman canoe trucking along and
it's pretty low to the ground. 

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And I'm thinking that's got to 
be holding because it's like, 

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you know, John, it's as large as
he was in stature. 

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He was actually pretty 
diminutive, right? 

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And all of a sudden he trips 
over a bog or something, the 

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canoe goes down and it's just 
flat on the ground, right? 

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I mean, it's just flat, perfect,
flat on the ground. 

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And I'm like, Oh my God, John's 
down. 

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And I, I run to go help him. 
And all of a sudden I hear his 

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grunt. 
And slowly the canoe just rises 

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up and there's John, pipe in his
mouth, you know, not missing a 

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beat. 
And off he goes. 

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So just, you know, amazing 
place, amazing memories. 

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It's, it's great too, when you 
go meet with people, you, I 

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mean, I, you know this too. 
It's like the conversation 

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picked up from 4050 years ago, 
like it never let off it left 

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off. 
I mean, it's just it's right 

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back into your point too. 
You know, I've met with some 

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people on myself that were there
for a year or two and they 

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remember everything and 
absolutely love the place. 

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And you know, I just, you know, 
talking about changes to, you 

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know, you're talking about some 
some more. 

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I was, I jotted down some 
things, you know, that some 

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people may not know that the 
shop used to be right where the,

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the, the front bench is there, 
you know, right when you walk on

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right next to the welcome center
there. 

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It used to be there. 
I mean, the people don't how 

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about the old tennis courts down
where the trip center is now 

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where they do the felling 
contest for the woodcraft that 

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the, there were the staff where 
they, where they chopped the 

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logs off the trip centers 
changed twice. 

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And in the marine railway for 
the big boat, we used to pull 

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the big boat up right on the 
sailing beach with with the 

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railroad. 
I mean, all these little things 

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that have changed, it's just 
kind of interesting to see, 

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yeah. 
Oh, there's no question. 

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I mean, when you think back to 
our day, you know, the 

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basketball courts were kind of 
center of camp because you not 

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only had the basketball courts 
where your dad and Lineberger 

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and others held court right 
after dinner, you know, and a 

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just a massive basketball game. 
But the horseshoe pits were 

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right there. 
The box hockey was right there, 

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the tetherball courts were right
there. 

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And that was just that was 
center of camp. 

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And the shop is you, you, you 
know, as you stated, there were 

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benches out in front and, you 
know, when everybody would who 

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wasn't playing would gather 
there and watch. 

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And there was just so much 
activity right there. 

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And, you know, I think of those 
those times and those memories. 

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I mean, I'd be remiss if I 
didn't talk a little bit about 

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your dad. 
I mean, Bugs was, you know, 

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larger than life for me as a 
camper growing up. 

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He was he ran the junior camp. 
BJ ran the intermediate camp 

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when I was there. 
But your dad, lot of tough love,

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which I needed for sure. 
And one fond memory I had of 

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your dad was I don't know whose 
idea it was or who did it, but 

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we established an obstacle 
course that went all the way 

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through the back of the island, 
through the swamp. 

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It was, it was tough, man. 
I mean, it was, it was rigorous 

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and it it was a punishment just 
to say it for what it is. 

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And, you know, I got in more 
trouble, you know, than most. 

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And, you know, next thing I 
know, one morning, you know, 

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before I know it, it's 4:30 in 
the morning and the whistle goes

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off and your dad burst into the 
cabin. 

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He's yelling at me. 
And, and the rest of the guys 

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like, oh, let's get up, We'll 
run the course. 

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It's all Hallows fault. 
And so we're making our way 

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through this obstacle course. 
And it's a lousy day and the 

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weather's just terrible. 
And here I am coming down the 

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Bear Trail neck and neck with 
your dad, and we're in front. 

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We're leading everybody. 
And I swear to God, Jeff, we're 

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00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,840
jostling each other like there's
no way I'm going to let your dad

221
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,280
win. 
And of course, there's no way 

222
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,680
he's going to let me win. 
And literally, we're elbowing 

223
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:09,320
each other. 
We get the right to the end of 

224
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,160
the ball to the Bear Trail, 
right where it comes into into 

225
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,880
the ball field. 
And we're both like diving 

226
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,680
across the finish line. 
That's classic. 

227
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,400
When I came back to camp many 
years later in his role, it was 

228
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,480
like literally the first thing 
your dad said to me. 

229
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:26,840
Hey, you know I won that, right?
He was competitive to these last

230
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:27,520
days. 
I know. 

231
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,280
Oh. 
My God, but. 

232
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,760
He loved it up there, you know, 
and it's, I know it's my dad, 

233
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,960
but I, it's been great. 
I've been, you don't know how he

234
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,360
was received and you just don't 
know, you know, what people 

235
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,360
thought. 
I mean, I'm sure their son that 

236
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,680
didn't care for the way he he 
corrected him or whatever. 

237
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:46,440
But everybody so far that I've 
caught up with has said how big 

238
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,440
of an influence he was on them 
and how much they appreciated 

239
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,600
tripping with him. 
So it's been great for me to 

240
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,360
hear. 
And there's a lot of people like

241
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,840
that up there though then. 
And they're still there and 

242
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,400
they're still having a great 
impact on kids and, and trips 

243
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,320
and things like that that is 
still going on today, which is, 

244
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:09,240
which is, you know, great to see
you talk about holding. 

245
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,320
You know, when I was a kid, one 
thing I remember was going to 

246
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,720
his home in Indian Hill for the 
Christmas Eve party. 

247
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,120
You know, I had to be 13 before 
I went there. 

248
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,640
That was such a great time. 
And our family took it on. 

249
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,200
And a funny story about that 
one. 

250
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,680
You know, when John passed away,
we, we, we started hosting the 

251
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:29,480
Christmas Eve party at our 
house, my parents house in 

252
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,160
Cincinnati. 
And Buzz Ecker and Bill Easley 

253
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,200
came to the party and they were 
a little late. 

254
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,440
And Buzz shared with us that 
they were at the house, 2 houses

255
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,720
down the street, 2 doors down 
the street at a party. 

256
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,480
And we're there for two hours 
having beer. 

257
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,520
And then Buzz looked at Bill and
said, hey, do you know anybody 

258
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,640
here? 
Said no. 

259
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,040
So Buzz asked, is this the 
Coleman residence? 

260
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,600
They said, no, that's two houses
down. 

261
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,720
So they were a little late to 
the party, but they eventually 

262
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,000
got there. 
But but also at John's, you 

263
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,360
know, he made me share. 
I don't know as much, but I know

264
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,040
he had a big A garage in the 
back with all the ski equipment 

265
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,960
in there. 
Yes, Key Wayne Ski Club, which 

266
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,960
John started with Ed Betts. 
For those out there who were 

267
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,560
recall Ed, I think if you look 
up in the dictionary and you 

268
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,080
look under the, the word 
gentleman, Ed's name would be 

269
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,720
right there. 
I mean, I, I don't know that 

270
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,760
I've ever met a, a man more 
distinguished, more polished 

271
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,000
than Ed and was a great 
influence for me when I came 

272
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,160
back into this role and offered 
a tremendous amount of advice. 

273
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,600
But yes, Ed started Key waiting 
with John. 

274
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,600
It actually was Ed's influence 
said allowed Key waiting to be 

275
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,080
Coed and really wanted to be a 
Coed ski club. 

276
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,840
And, you know, obviously up into
that time, anything that we did,

277
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,800
Wasaka and Kuchi Chang, we're 
all boys. 

278
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,400
And you know, I think that was 
sort of the forerunner. 

279
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,640
Maybe when you could think about
it, I would get you that way. 

280
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,720
But Key Wayne was it was just a 
lot of fun. 

281
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,160
Gosh, I don't even know if I 
remember how old I was probably,

282
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:05,960
you know, 10/11/12 when I 
started. 

283
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,760
And, and Jeff, I mean, we're 
talking step in bindings, wood 

284
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:16,080
skis, you know, you know, spring
bindings, the whole thing. 

285
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,920
And we went all through the 
Midwest in those days. 

286
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,760
We'd go up. 
I learned to ski up at Boyne 

287
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,880
Mountain. 
Actually, I'm taking my kids 

288
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,000
there this Christmas to revisit 
it. 

289
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,800
But we went to Boyne, we went to
Devil's Cascade, Devil's Devil's

290
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,400
Head, we went to Cabaret, 
Cabaret, all, all the places in 

291
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,320
the Midwest. 
And then, you know, I never went

292
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,320
WI don't know if I was out of it
that time or what. 

293
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,280
But, you know, then they started
going West. 

294
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,920
I went there a couple times on 
that, the Snowmass, they had a 

295
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,240
house out there. 
BJBJ, all those guys. 

296
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,800
But you know, one thing that was
just, you know, another great 

297
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,840
memory there. 
It's just John, you know, 

298
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,680
picking us all up with the Green
monster. 

299
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,600
You know, we'd load us all up on
Friday right after school and 

300
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,400
we'd take off and drive where we
were going and and then, you 

301
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,760
know, ski for a couple days hard
and have a lot of fun and then 

302
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,560
back in the Green Monster and 
come on home. 

303
00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,920
And John was hit up there in the
front seat with his pipe and 

304
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,600
just a wonderful time. 
So, you know, Key Wading spread 

305
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,520
its wings throughout Cincinnati.
There's a lot of boys and girls 

306
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,840
who went to who are part of that
key Wading ski club that never 

307
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,160
actually came up to camp, but 
definitely had a strong presence

308
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,920
here in the Cincinnati area. 
It's that's that's the kind of 

309
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,280
program I wish we could revive. 
But. 

310
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,960
Little tough today's given the 
the entry price for speaking, 

311
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,240
but at least we have boys of 
winter. 

312
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,920
That's a nice. 
You heard we're having Sons of 

313
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:47,840
Winter now. 
I don't know if. 

314
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,760
You I did hear that. 
I did hear that. 

315
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,600
Yes. 
I don't know who shared. 

316
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,200
I was down at the camp office 
not long ago. 

317
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,840
Someone shared that with, oh, 
Tim Downey. 

318
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,320
Tim Downey shared that with me. 
Yes. 

319
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,800
Yes, Mick Ian, who is a current 
Kuchi Chang staffer, very 

320
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,200
creative guy, very, very 
creative old man. 

321
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,440
And he dreamed up this idea of 
of Sons of Winter. 

322
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,680
So it's kind of at the 
intermediate and senior level of

323
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,760
campers. 
And I think it's an it's over 

324
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,480
presidents, Presidents Day 
weekend. 

325
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,480
And he's got about a group about
1416 young men. 

326
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,680
They're going to go up to the 
island and experience the PG 

327
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,079
version of Boys of Winter. 
No, it's actually that's who 

328
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,920
that is who told me about it was
him. 

329
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,880
I saw him at the at the camp 
event in Cincinnati there on the

330
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,360
12th, right? 
And he was showing me that. 

331
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:36,800
I met him and we had a great 
talk. 

332
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,280
That's that's who was showing me
about all that. 

333
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,600
So. 
So who knows, maybe it will lead

334
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,400
to future ski trips in 
Minnesota, who knows. 

335
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:52,320
But anyway, it's a lot of fun. 
So, you know, 6-7 years as a 

336
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,280
camper, you're on staff for a 
couple years. 

337
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,440
You, you came back in 83, which 
happened to be Heinle's first 

338
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,320
year, which was kind of kind of 
interesting. 

339
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,720
And then you were gone for. 
A while I got to tell you a 

340
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,800
story about 83, though. 
OK, Yeah, I I I wrote this one 

341
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,560
down and it sticks in my memory 
because it involves one of our 

342
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:18,960
dear friends, Steve Heinle. 
So in 83, I came back for one 

343
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,480
year because Tim had reached out
to me. 

344
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,600
I was traveling and doing 
things. 

345
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,240
I was overseas for a while. 
I was in the Peace Corps and I 

346
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,320
had I was kind of in between 
jobs. 

347
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,160
And Tim reached out to me, said,
hey, can you come up and lead a 

348
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,080
backpacking trip? 
And I'm like, Tim, I don't know 

349
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,520
the first thing about that back.
I said all my days were kidding.

350
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,280
I don't need you're fine. 
I was like, OK, I got nothing to

351
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,040
do. 
I'll come up. 

352
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,680
So came up and there were two 
trips going to the Wind River. 

353
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:50,360
Gary Lineberger was sure leading
one and I was leading the other.

354
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:56,680
And turns out that Randy Alden, 
who I know, you know, was my 

355
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,880
assistant, thank God, because he
knew a heck of a lot more about 

356
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,960
backpacking than I did. 
I think I was just there because

357
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,680
I was 21 and one of my campers 
was Steve Hindley. 

358
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,840
So we had a great trip, you 
know, fabulous mountains and, 

359
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,520
you know, great weather. 
And although I remember us 

360
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,960
getting caught in a windstorm 
where we hitting a crevasse for 

361
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,560
a couple hours. 
So we thought we're going to get

362
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,680
blown off the side of the 
mountain. 

363
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,720
But at any rate, great trip. 
We get back, you know, we were 

364
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,440
based out of land or Wyoming. 
And in those days, you know, we 

365
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,280
would drive a van out and then 
leave it there, the trail ahead 

366
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,760
and then come back. 
So we get back to the parking 

367
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,360
lot and I go to the van and open
it up. 

368
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,040
It's dead. 
Battery's just dead. 

369
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,400
I'm like, Jesus, and I'm like, I
don't know what I'm going to do.

370
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,520
And Ray's like, what are we 
going to do? 

371
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,560
I was like, I don't know, hey, 
take the kids into town, you 

372
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,080
know, buy them a Coke, go to a 
movie. 

373
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,560
I don't know, I got to figure 
this thing out. 

374
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,360
So anyway, I don't know if I'm 
allowed to tell this story on 

375
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:57,600
the air, but I think I'm all 
right. 

376
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,840
I got to figure something out 
here. 

377
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,520
So I literally started going 
around the parking lot looking 

378
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:10,400
for a van that was similar to 
ours and had a battery and. 

379
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,080
You know, sprung the lock, got 
it open, took the battery out. 

380
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,200
You know, obviously took the 
dead one out, put it in ours, 

381
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,120
charged it up, drove the van 
into town, bought a battery, 

382
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,600
came back, put the battery back 
in, and then got the kids and 

383
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,360
went home. 
So I come back. 

384
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,720
When I came back to the 
organization many years later, 

385
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,680
Wiper, who's who was director at
the time, he meets me at the 

386
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,240
dock and the first thing he says
me. 

387
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,800
Do you remember when you stole 
that battery out and I had 

388
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,040
completely forgot about it? 
Yeah, completely forgot about 

389
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:47,600
it. 
But Steve, as you know, 

390
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,840
remembers everything he could 
tell you. 

391
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,720
Every trip, every Portage trail,
every campsite, every fish he 

392
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,360
caught. 
And yeah, he didn't let me live 

393
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,280
that one down so. 
That's he's he's one of the best

394
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,800
ones I've ever tripped with by 
far. 

395
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,360
He's he's a great one. 
So yes, he is well so so you, 

396
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,360
you were gone for a little bit. 
I mean in 83 you can kind of you

397
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,520
can get into this and share this
a little bit, but then you came 

398
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,560
back in this role. 
Now, what year was it that you 

399
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,800
came back in is the President 
and CEO? 

400
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:29,720
So it was in 2007, started in 
August of 2007, the little story

401
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,960
behind that. 
So yes, I was gone for quite 

402
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,320
some time, probably about 25 
years. 

403
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:42,720
And true story, my wife, Alice 
Peacock, who I know, you know, 

404
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:48,800
singer-songwriter, and she was 
out in LA recording an album. 

405
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:53,040
And we were flying home across 
the Rocky Mountains. 

406
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,200
And I had the window seat and I 
was lost in thought. 

407
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,280
And she elbows me and says, 
where are you? 

408
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,480
You. 
You seem very distant. 

409
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,840
I'm like, you know, I just, come
on, we just spent like 3 weeks 

410
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,560
in LA and it's like not a city 
I'm super fond of. 

411
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:13,560
And you know, I, you know, just,
you know, just dreaming. 

412
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,000
And she's like, well, if you 
could be anywhere right now, 

413
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,600
where would you be? 
And I don't know, maybe back in 

414
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,560
my old camp. 
And she's like, what? 

415
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,400
She said you never talk about 
that. 

416
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,560
And according to her, for the 
next 2 1/2 hours, that's I 

417
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,480
literally didn't stop talking 
until we landed in Chicago where

418
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,600
we were living at the time, talk
about camp and old camp days. 

419
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,080
And she was like, well, why 
don't you reach out? 

420
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,200
Why don't you reconnect with 
them? 

421
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,000
And she was like, ah, you know, 
been there, done that, whatever.

422
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,080
Anyway, she kept it up and 
literally like for a couple 

423
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,320
months, she kept bugging me 
about it. 

424
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,680
And so finally one day I picked 
up the phone and I called Hank 

425
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,040
Brightwell, who I was still very
good friends with at that time. 

426
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,520
And just hey, hey, what's going 
on with camp? 

427
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,360
And he said, you know, I'm not 
really sure, but the guy I 

428
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,280
believe in his chair is Jim 
Shook. 

429
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,920
And Jim and I were best of 
friends, grew up together at 

430
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,000
camp. 
And so probably another couple 

431
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,320
weeks went by and then I picked 
up the phone and I called Jim 

432
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,440
and for he picks up the phone 
and hey, Jim, it's Hugh. 

433
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:22,360
He's like who you? 
Where the hell you been for the 

434
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:23,560
last 25? 
Years, right? 

435
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,680
Right. 
And like, well, you know, Jim 

436
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,960
foam works both ways, dude. 
Like, you know, where you been 

437
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,240
anyway? 
I mean, we then picked up 

438
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,480
immediately, right? 
Like, like you just said, you 

439
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,120
know, earlier didn't miss a beat
and reminiscing and everything. 

440
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,240
And he's like, you know, it's 
pretty coincidental that you're 

441
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,240
calling me right now because we 
are just starting to think about

442
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,400
putting together a, a, a role 
for a CEOCEO to overarch the 

443
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,480
organization. 
We just started this girls camp 

444
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,280
and we need some help with that 
and need a little help with 

445
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,240
cooch and so forth and so on. 
And we're not really sure even 

446
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,760
what the role looks like. 
And frankly, he didn't sell it 

447
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,840
very well. 
And, you know, I kind of like, 

448
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:04,560
you know, would you be 
interested? 

449
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,640
I think I don't know. 
Anyway, that was it. 

450
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,840
And and I think I might have 
said at the end of the 

451
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,800
conversation that if, you know, 
if you ever got to get it 

452
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,120
together or you, you know, you 
have a job description, maybe 

453
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:18,880
shoot it to me. 
But you know, I'm happy with 

454
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,040
where I am, what I'm doing. 
And anyway, I didn't hear from 

455
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,640
Jim for six months and then one 
day, Dang, in my inbox and 

456
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,200
there's this e-mail from Jim and
a job description of the role. 

457
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,880
And he took a look at it and I 
was like, well, you know, I owe 

458
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,840
it, owe it to myself to, you 
know, at least, you know, submit

459
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,280
a resume and a cover letter. 
So I did that and next thing I 

460
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,480
know it, I got a call from Tom 
Martella who was leading the 

461
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:43,160
search. 
And. 

462
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,040
Fly me to Cincinnati and, you 
know, I felt like I was in the 

463
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,880
Inquisition and, you know, in 
the room with the spotlight over

464
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,240
my head. 
And there's all my old buddies 

465
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,080
and some I knew and some I 
didn't know, including people 

466
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,840
like at that time. 
Jeff Wilson, who was chair of 

467
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,040
the board, may be the smartest 
man I've ever met in my entire 

468
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,680
life. 
Just, you know, God rest his 

469
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,880
soul. 
Just incredible, incredible man.

470
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,040
Ed Betts was on that committee 
and all the guys I've mentioned,

471
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,360
J Stare, Kathy Dicks, who I'd 
never met before at that time, 

472
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:17,000
George Simmons, who I actually 
didn't know at the time, and on 

473
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,120
and on and on. 
And you know, I went through the

474
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,840
process of three or four rounds 
interviews and before I knew it,

475
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,000
you know, I'm up at camp for the
last round. 

476
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,920
And this is the best part of 
this story was because this led 

477
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,200
to a life wrong friendship. 
I'd gone through a bunch of 

478
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,080
interviews up at camp over a 
weekend and I went over to 

479
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,840
Thunderbird just to kind of 
decompress and think about the 

480
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,000
whole process. 
And I'm sitting on the deck and 

481
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,600
look over and there's this this 
guy and never met him before, 

482
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,880
didn't know who he was, but sort
of scruffy looking in our old 

483
00:25:53,880 --> 00:26:00,800
ratty cooch hat and maybe the 
weirdest food plate I've ever 

484
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,760
seen. 
You know where this is going. 

485
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,960
He's got some olives and, you 
know, some eggs and I don't 

486
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,880
know, some peanut butter. 
And then he's got like a martini

487
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,880
glass and the whole bed and you.
Want me to guess? 

488
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,320
Go ahead. 
It's got to be Tom Dupree, A. 

489
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:24,280
100% And I walk up and I go, I 
didn't even say anything. 

490
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,360
He's like, I know who you are. 
He said. 

491
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,400
I've been behind the scenes of 
this whole process. 

492
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,520
And he starts asking me 
questions and then starts, you 

493
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,040
know, giving me some ideas and 
thoughts and advice. 

494
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,040
And honestly, Jeff, that started
a friendship that, you know, 

495
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,960
lasted, you know, well, Dukes, 
we lost Duke about five years 

496
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,280
ago now. 
So, you know, 15 years of just 

497
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,000
an amazing friendship and was so
helpful for me as a mentor, 

498
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,200
advice, helping me through, you 
know, those early days and 

499
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:04,160
especially with the development 
of the Getchi Dakwe, which you 

500
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,280
know, was a big impetus for me 
in terms of coming back and get 

501
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,640
getting into the role. 
Well, I could go into a 

502
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,400
bazillion stories about Doopy, 
but I'm I'm, I'm going to hold 

503
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,800
those back and they're all 
hilarious. 

504
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,800
But but but so you know, you and
we were there. 

505
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,640
We had we had Camp Cooch. 
It was the one director that was

506
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,400
it. 
It was a one person show. 

507
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,440
They did all the fundraising, 
recruiting unit, all of it, the 

508
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,520
the whole shooting match and and
now here we go with it. 

509
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,800
Now you're getting into a new 
role and you saw it the way it 

510
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,320
was before. 
And now here you come in with 

511
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,720
the CEO with now another, 
another entity under the 

512
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,960
umbrella, so to speak, with the,
with Ogichi starting up What I 

513
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,880
mean, I'll let you go from here 
and land and cut it loose to 

514
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,400
you. 
The, the, the difference, the 

515
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,680
changes, I mean, and this whole 
new structure of how it's all, 

516
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,200
what were the challenges? 
Were there challenges were 

517
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,000
there? 
I'm sure that's good, good and 

518
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,200
bad. 
With anything like this that you

519
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,960
get into, it's going to be 
different. 

520
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,000
And I'm sure it's a, you know, 
it's a little different setup 

521
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,160
than what we were all used to. 
It was. 

522
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,400
And yeah, I mean, there were a 
lot of challenges in the 

523
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,840
beginning. 
I think just just from the 

524
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,760
outset of, you know, we're going
to get into this a little bit 

525
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,000
later too, just with some of the
modern challenges. 

526
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,160
But, you know, Cooch, I think 
one of the things that people 

527
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,320
love about Cooch is the fact 
they think of it up there and on

528
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:38,560
Rainy Lake and it's, you know, 
isolated and it's preserved and 

529
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,840
kind of protected from outside 
influence. 

530
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,880
And we all want to think, hey, 
we can come back and, you know, 

531
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,080
nothing's changed. 
And to a large degree, nothing 

532
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:48,920
has. 
And when it would come to the 

533
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,400
program and the influence and 
impact it has on kids, nothing 

534
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,320
has changed. 
If anything, it's only gotten 

535
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,000
better and has more. 
But at that time, certainly the 

536
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,560
current board recognized that we
needed to evolve and we were 

537
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,320
becoming a little bit of a 
dinosaur. 

538
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,160
And if you go back to that 
period, which was, you know, 

539
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:18,600
2007, 2008, and you were to look
at the rest of the industry and 

540
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,800
look at the really excellent 
waterness organizations that 

541
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,480
were out there. 
By that time, they had all had 

542
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,400
really evolved. 
And not only do they have boys 

543
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,320
camp, but they had a girls camp 
and they also had some 

544
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,160
additional programming, like 
year round programming as well. 

545
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,160
So I always say this that I 
don't think anybody can touch us

546
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,960
when it comes to our tripping 
ethic and our ability to trip, 

547
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,160
especially given where we're 
located. 

548
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,680
But as an organization back 
then, we were a little behind 

549
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,840
and good to go back to John for 
a second. 

550
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:59,080
And not everybody knows this, 
but you know, a getchy, not so 

551
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,400
much a getchy, but a girls camp.
That was John's vision. 

552
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,160
John, you go all the way back 
to, you know, the early 80s and 

553
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,680
even into the mid 70s when I was
at camp toward the very end. 

554
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,320
And then when I was on staff, 
there was already a lot of talk 

555
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,160
about starting a girls camp. 
And that was John's vision. 

556
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,480
And when I came back, one of the
first things that I did was lock

557
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,560
myself in a closet out on 
Northland Blvd. where our old 

558
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,000
office was, where Tim had set it
up. 

559
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,720
And maybe the rent was $100. 
I mean, this, it was just like, 

560
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,640
I mean, you talk about no 
frills, just classic Tim. 

561
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,280
Oh, yeah. 
And, and I locked myself in a 

562
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,640
closet and just read through all
the back minutes and all the 

563
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,560
backboard meetings. 
And what I uncovered more than 

564
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,600
anything, or as much as 
anything, was John's desire to 

565
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600
have a girls camp. 
And it was all there and it was 

566
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,080
all memorialized. 
He had plans. 

567
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,360
I have an old folder of John's 
where literally he had the whole

568
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,000
thing laid out and he was 
definitely ahead of his time. 

569
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,480
And I don't think it was maybe 
as well thought out as it could 

570
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,440
have been in terms of, you know,
there was going to be some 

571
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,600
commingling and conflict with 
the boys camp. 

572
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,160
And obviously that was never 
going to happen. 

573
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,640
So, you know, the board shut it 
down many times. 

574
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,080
Family that I know, you know 
really well, the Lenkemeyer 

575
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:16,000
family, Ned Lemkemeyer was the 
chair at that time. 

576
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,760
And Dad had couldn't be at this 
board meeting where they were 

577
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,320
bringing up the girls camp 
again. 

578
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,040
And I guess they had a call Ned.
I don't know if he was in Saint 

579
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,000
Louis or Florida off on 
business. 

580
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,680
And they had a call Ned, to cast
the deciding vote and he voted 

581
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,680
against it. 
And so it was voted down. 

582
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,400
And when we read, when we 
finally got the girls camp up 

583
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,800
and going, I know that Ned, I 
remember visiting him years 

584
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480
later as we were looking to put 
it all together and raise the 

585
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,040
money. 
And he's like, you know, it was 

586
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,400
one of my greatest regrets in 
life. 

587
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,480
And I'm so glad that you guys 
finally got there. 

588
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,080
Another guy, Harry Mcneely. 
I know you remember the Mcneely.

589
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,200
Family. 
I just visited Harry last 

590
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,760
summer. 
Harry is 101 years old, 101. 

591
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,280
He was 100 on our hundred and is
still engaged in vibrant and 

592
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,360
he's participated in some of our
most recent efforts in 

593
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,240
campaigns. 
But he is another one. 

594
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,560
He was dear friends with John. 
And again, when we voted the 

595
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,920
camp, the girls camp down, he 
kind of walked away for a period

596
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,320
of time. 
So, you know, back to John's 

597
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,520
vision. 
It was John's vision. 

598
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,720
And I brought up a name earlier,
George Simmons. 

599
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,000
I didn't know George when I was 
at camp. 

600
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,880
Hard times never crossed. 
But when I, you know, was lucky 

601
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,200
enough to get this role, one of 
the first people I sat with was 

602
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560
George. 
And George told me this really 

603
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:44,240
powerful story. 
Sorry about John and how John 

604
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,440
told George on his deathbed. 
Don't forget about the. 

605
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,440
Girl, yeah, we we talked about 
that on his when we hit him on 

606
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,880
the from the Great Central. 
Fire. 

607
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,840
So, you know, it's sort of the 
hair went up on the back of my 

608
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,480
neck when he told me that story.
And honestly, Jeff, I, when I 

609
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,120
heard that, I felt like, OK, 
there's a reason why I'm in this

610
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,520
role. 
And it's a complete John's 

611
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,440
vision. 
Yeah, because I, John was so 

612
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,840
influential in my life as a kid.
And so we took it from there. 

613
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,040
And, you know, I mentioned the 
the minutes and all that I had 

614
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,560
found on John's ideas. 
And there was one particular 

615
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,400
letter over that John had 
written to the board about how 

616
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,120
important it was to start this 
girls camp from a strategic 

617
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,760
standpoint. 
And so I took that letter when 

618
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,160
we started to put this whole 
process together because, you 

619
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,960
know, when I came in, I get you 
was already started, but it 

620
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,960
definitely was, you know, in a 
bit of a state of I don't know 

621
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,800
if chaos is the right word, but 
just we needed a plan. 

622
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,360
I mean, we didn't really have a 
really strong vision yet for 

623
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,160
what it was going to be. 
It was young still. 

624
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,240
It was young. 
It was still young. 

625
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,400
I mean, it was young. 
And all the people who were a 

626
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,160
part of that early process. 
George and Janet Vanderbark. 

627
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,680
Jay stare. 
Jim shook. 

628
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,240
Steve shook all those it mean 
they they had a great founding 

629
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,040
committee. 
Rich Thompson's another one, 

630
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,400
obviously Tim, but it was young 
and not everybody was on board. 

631
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,640
I mean it really hadn't been, 
you know, I think maybe sold as 

632
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,719
well to the the communities it 
could have been or there 

633
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,840
definitely was just, you know, 
confusion. 

634
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,040
What is it really going to 
become? 

635
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,800
And most importantly, they 
weren't sure where it was going 

636
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,639
to be there. 
It was a temporary lease 

637
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,679
obviously on the Rainy Lake 
Lodge property, but you know, 

638
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,520
that wasn't necessarily the 
original vision is what was 

639
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,960
going to what was going to end 
up. 

640
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:33,719
So you know, my first charge was
to really figure this out and 

641
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,560
OK, you know, what's the what is
the plan and and what is going 

642
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,239
to be the best way to do this? 
Where does it go? 

643
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,719
What does it look like all these
different things and back to 

644
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,760
dupe. 
Great story with Tom. 

645
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:52,199
So, you know, I had committed to
the organization that what I 

646
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,239
felt was most important from a 
fiduciary responsibility was to 

647
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,920
look at our properties first 
before we said we were going to 

648
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,000
go off to another part of 
Minnesota or Wisconsin and, you 

649
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,240
know, purchase land and spend 
millions of dollars. 

650
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,200
You know, let's look at what we 
own 1st and see if that's, see 

651
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,400
if that's, you know, viable. 
And, and I, as I mentioned, Tom 

652
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,120
had already become a, a great 
friend. 

653
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,880
He, he was advising me on some 
of this. 

654
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,880
So Tom and I came up to camp in 
March, and this would have been 

655
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,560
in, I think, I guess this would 
have been in 2008. 

656
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,600
Yeah, March of 2008. 
And Tom rented a little prop 

657
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,120
plane and we flew over the 
island and all the properties up

658
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,680
there that we currently own to 
see what could be viable. 

659
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,880
And then after we did that, we 
spent a day hiking all through 

660
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,640
the island, every part of it, to
see if it was feasible and 

661
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,120
ultimately, for a number of 
different reasons, decided that 

662
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,840
it wasn't, that it just wasn't 
going to work. 

663
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,720
And some of that was proximity 
to the boys camp. 

664
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120
Some of it was what it would 
have taken from an 

665
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,200
infrastructure standpoint to 
really build something out. 

666
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,720
So once we did that, then we 
went over to the old Rainy Lake 

667
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:03,600
Lodge property where the girls 
camp was at that time and looked

668
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,280
at that. 
And we're, you know, going 

669
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,560
through all of that and, you 
know, it was obvious we didn't 

670
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,040
have a lot of acreage there. 
But the big thing more than 

671
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,560
anything was you're going to 
have a camp, you got to have a 

672
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,240
ball field, right? 
You got to have some, you got to

673
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:20,880
have some flat space. 
And, you know, the only flat 

674
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,040
space at that time behind the 
Ray, Old Ray Lake Lodge was the 

675
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,880
Leach field. 
And it was about, I don't know, 

676
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,840
it had to be at least a couple 
feet of snow on the ground at 

677
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,800
the time. 
And so we're tramping around 

678
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,400
and, you know, as you know, 
Tom's got, you know, his one leg

679
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,440
and he's got his prosthetic and 
he's got his his ski poles. 

680
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,040
And we're tromping through the 
snow and we're behind the lodge.

681
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,480
And next time you know it, Duke 
just takes off. 

682
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,520
Like he just takes off like a 
bat out of hell. 

683
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,720
And he's he's going across the 
this Leech field with his ski 

684
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,680
poles and he's trucking the 
line. 

685
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,440
I'm yelling at him. 
TomTom, slow down. 

686
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,080
Next thing you know what, he 
literally pulls out of his 

687
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,840
prosthetic leg and the leg, the 
stump is sticking in the snow. 

688
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,240
And he keeps going. 
He's like, he's like, Hugh, I 

689
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,720
see it, I see it, I see it. 
I'm like, what the hell is he 

690
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:08,880
talking about? 
Like he turns around. 

691
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,480
He's like, this is it. 
This is the ball field. 

692
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,320
We just got to clear out some of
the woods and make it a little 

693
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,360
bigger. 
And this is it. 

694
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,120
And then, you know, like, OK. 
And then we'll throw the cabins 

695
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,160
up in the hills and we got a 
camp. 

696
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:28,920
Well, we go back to to the old 
Hell Lloyd property, which was 

697
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,960
right next door. 
And we had met, we had met Bert 

698
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,440
Hell Lloyd. 
And we're there. 

699
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,080
And we're just sort of thawing 
out. 

700
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,800
And next thing I know it, my 
phone rings and answer. 

701
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,520
And this is Hugh. 
Yeah. 

702
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,520
Hey, Hugh, This is a this is 
Brett Botnick. 

703
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,760
I know you don't know me from 
Adam, but I've lived up here my 

704
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,520
whole life and I'm a realtor 
here in town. 

705
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,920
And I was dear friends with 
Tommy Walters and Tom Catola. 

706
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,840
And my father, Doc Walters, was 
your Doc? 

707
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:03,760
Not not, I'm sorry, not my 
father. 

708
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,480
Tommy's father, Doc Walters was,
you know, the camp dock for so 

709
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,680
many years. 
And I know you remember. 

710
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:10,960
You remember Doc Walters? 
Yeah. 

711
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,880
I mean, literally had the black 
bag. 

712
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,000
And he'd come and, you know, 
visit the whole bed. 

713
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
And he's like, well, here's the 
thing. 

714
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:24,120
I owe it to Doc and my whole 
life, frankly, that's why I'm 

715
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,720
making this phone call. 
I guess when when Brett was a 

716
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:29,920
little kid, he always wanted to 
come to Kuchi Chang as a camper.

717
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,840
And he was in school one day and
they were doing a fitness test 

718
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,760
and he collapsed on the mat. 
And they took him to the nurse 

719
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,400
nurse's office and they called 
Doc Walters in. 

720
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960
He checked him out and it seemed
like everything was fine, 

721
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,640
thought maybe he just fainted 
and got a little dizzy. 

722
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,080
And and then I guess at the very
end of the the examination, he 

723
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,960
noticed a little red spot on 
Brent's knee. 

724
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,120
He said, hey, do you mind if I 
just prick that? 

725
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,840
So he took a little blood 
sample, took it back. 

726
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,880
The lab turned out that he had 
bone cancer and they amputated 

727
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,200
him almost immediately. 
Otherwise not what he just lost 

728
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,520
his legs would have lost his 
life. 

729
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,880
So he said I've always had this 
fascination and sort of almost 

730
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,600
like a love hate with because I 
always wanted to go there, but 

731
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,200
obviously I couldn't. 
So I wanted to call you because 

732
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,600
I know how much you know how 
much this place means to the to 

733
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,720
the community, to myself, to all
of you and I I know you guys are

734
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:30,320
thinking about trying to 
establish a girls camp here 

735
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,600
permanently. 
Well, I just want you to be 

736
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,080
aware that the house you're 
standing in right now and all 

737
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,440
the land and property around it,
it's is going to come up for 

738
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,560
sale. 
It had been up for sale years 

739
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,400
before at a much higher price. 
It was still, you know, 

740
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,800
expensive, he said. 
But I've got developers in my 

741
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,480
office right now, and they're 
circling and they're trying to 

742
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,360
figure out, you know, how 
they're going to buy this and 

743
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,400
they're going to carve it up. 
And, you know, if you're 

744
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,040
thinking about having a girls 
camp here, there's no way that's

745
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,720
going to, you know, if that 
happens, there's no way you'll 

746
00:39:57,720 --> 00:39:59,520
be able to do it. 
I turned it. 

747
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,920
I hang up the phone. 
I turned to Duke. 

748
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,360
I said, Duke, we got to buy this
thing now. 

749
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,120
And he said yeah. 
And he said yes. 

750
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,800
And that was, and that was the 
beginning, you know. 

751
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,000
And then from there, you know, 
we went on and we put the plan 

752
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000
together and, you know, so many 
people were a part of that 

753
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,200
collaborative process. 
Dave Serrano, who is, you know, 

754
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,480
he's the the lead land surveyor 
and and International Falls who 

755
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,040
helped us with a site plan, you 
know, David Nilan and I could 

756
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,760
tell a whole story about that, 
but maybe for another time that 

757
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,880
helped us put the, you know, 
really, you know, had the vision

758
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,480
for the architecture. 
And then all the people that got

759
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,520
involved and and helped and 
supported from, you know, John 

760
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Berry, obviously Rich, the Pole 
family were very, very involved 

761
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,600
in that. 
One guy that I have not 

762
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:50,080
mentioned, Jeff, that had a huge
influence on me when I was a kid

763
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,400
growing up at Cooch, but also 
was super involved in helping 

764
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,080
put this all together was Rich 
Thompson. 

765
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,440
You know, Rich was my idol, I 
guess I would say when I was a 

766
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,560
kid growing up and just had such
a admiration for him as a kid 

767
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,040
and admired everything he did. 
And especially when he and Ecker

768
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,320
and all those guys went off and 
did the Arctic, which inspired 

769
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,040
me 50 years later, right, to do 
to do the same. 

770
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,080
But Rich was so helpful, not 
just in helping build it, but he

771
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,800
was the one who helped us put 
the land swap together that 

772
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,360
allowed us to acquire about 
another 30 acres, which kind of 

773
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,960
gave us the wilderness border to
build it out. 

774
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,920
But you know, I will tell you 
that going all the way back to 

775
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,280
when I had those first 
interviews up at camp, I brought

776
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:42,120
Alice, my wife with me and, you 
know, to see, you know, the 

777
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,120
opportunity to, to, to really 
develop a girls camp through her

778
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,400
eyes and the impact of that 
could have on young women. 

779
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,080
And now knowing how involved she
is, but also my daughter, that 

780
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:56,120
was a huge part for me to, to 
really get back involved and 

781
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,040
then just to bring it all 
forward and, and bring it into 

782
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,920
the modern day. 
And you know, so many great 

783
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,080
camps that are out there, you 
know, Key Wade and, and Dudley 

784
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:14,320
and Shawanke and all the ones 
that are on the East Coast, they

785
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,040
all started, you know, it's just
like us as a mom and pop right 

786
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,560
right around the turn of the 
century. 

787
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,440
And whatever their competitive 
advantage was, that's what they 

788
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,960
build off. 
And for us, obviously it was 

789
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,400
access to the Canadian 
wilderness. 

790
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,400
But at some point you got to 
professionalize because it's 

791
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,480
just it's a different world. 
And with all the risks that you 

792
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,720
have, whether that's insurance, 
risk management, leadership 

793
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:41,080
challenges, all of it, obviously
having, you know, 2 camps, you 

794
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,120
know, more than double the 
infrastructure and all the 

795
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,320
logistics. 
I mean, I mean, back then what 

796
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,200
we, maybe we put 1015 trips into
the wilderness. 

797
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,280
We had one, we had one vehicle, 
the Green Monster. 

798
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,760
We put over 90 trips into the 
wilderness. 

799
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,960
We have a whole fleet. 
So all the logistics that go 

800
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:02,960
behind that, all the risk that's
behind that, it's just a 

801
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,160
different world. 
And it requires us to run this 

802
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,160
organization in a very 
professional way. 

803
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,560
It's too big for one person. 
It requires tremendous 

804
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,360
governance from our boards and 
requires tremendous leadership 

805
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,240
from our team and. 
Well, they're booming. 

806
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,200
I mean, the physical structures 
of, of Ogichi and, and, and 

807
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,120
Cooch are, you know, Cooch's 
been there a while. 

808
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,280
Ogichi, I mean, but and, and the
kids and the numbers, it's, it's

809
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,320
all booming. 
We know it's booming. 

810
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,440
They're both very, very, very 
strong, attracting great staff, 

811
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,120
great kids, a lot of kids. 
And along with that, and you 

812
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,080
know, and I coached for many 
years you at the college level. 

813
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,640
And when I got out of coaching 
in O 9 to go to go try to do 

814
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,640
something new. 
There's a legendary coach in our

815
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,440
league that looked at me and 
couldn't believe I was leaving 

816
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,600
and said, you know, Jeff, 
there's there's one, very few 

817
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,480
things in life while you're 
living that are guarantees. 

818
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,960
But one of them is it's, it's 
going to change and there's been

819
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,640
a couple changes for, for us. 
I mean, it's going to happen, 

820
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,520
like you said, I mean, it's the 
world we're in today. 

821
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,000
And even to have a camp moving, 
I mean, to, to run a camp in 

822
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,360
today's world, it's got to be, I
can't even imagine how difficult

823
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,960
that is from a legal, legal 
standpoint, from a liability 

824
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,360
standpoint. 
But we've had we've, we've, 

825
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,280
we've had to make a, you know, 
a, a big change from the, from 

826
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,520
the history with the Native 
American program. 

827
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,560
And, you know, I just want to 
get you, give you some time to 

828
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,760
go into there. 
Obviously that was important to 

829
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,280
both you and I. 
We loved it. 

830
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,680
We honored it. 
You know, it was great. 

831
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,120
But you know, for those that 
don't understand why this had to

832
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,160
happen, I, I think it's great 
that they do understand as, as 

833
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,280
much as I loved it, I completely
understand what you were dealing

834
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,880
with. 
Yeah, it, well, one, thank you 

835
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,360
for asking me that. 
And I would like to speak to it.

836
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,440
And it's to be honest, it's, 
it's it's a really tough 

837
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:09,120
subject. 
It's very personal to me, as 

838
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,360
I've referenced several times 
over the course of this that 

839
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,680
John was a tremendous influence 
in my life. 

840
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,480
And to think that, you know, it 
sort of rests on my shoulders to

841
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,840
make some of these changes now. 
It's hard. 

842
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,160
And so to go back to some 
context around that because I 

843
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,320
really want people to understand
that by no means was just a knee

844
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,840
jerk reaction. 
No, by no means was it just my 

845
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,160
decision. 
But if you put it into context, 

846
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:46,080
it's been at least 10 years now 
that we have struggled with some

847
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,000
aspects of our native program, 
not all of them and certainly 

848
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,160
not the values behind them. 
That'll never go away. 

849
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,360
That is the connection and the 
soul of Kuchi Chang. 

850
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,920
I can tell you that growing up 
as a kid, I grew up in a very 

851
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,400
mixed sort of goofy religious 
household. 

852
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,400
And it wasn't until I came to 
Kuchi Chang that I really 

853
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,240
understood, you know, kind of 
what religion and spirituality 

854
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:09,720
meant for me and the connection 
to the land and how our native 

855
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:11,800
program interfaced with our 
tripping program. 

856
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:17,480
And that that meant so much. 
In fact, it wasn't till my my 

857
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,240
wife Alice came to camp years 
later that she said, I finally 

858
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:24,800
get you when she went on trips 
and understand just how powerful

859
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,280
that connection is. 
But if you go back 10 years, it 

860
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,320
was really our own staff at 
Kuchi Chang that first brought 

861
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,680
this to our attention and said 
one summer it was during pre 

862
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,440
season. 
They came to myself and Jr. and 

863
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,080
John Great, who you know who's 
actually celebrating a 95th 

864
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,440
birthday. 
God love him. 

865
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,960
In about 10 days and what an 
amazing person. 

866
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,200
But John always has been our, 
you know, our Native American 

867
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,400
expert advisor, art artists, all
of it. 

868
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,400
They came to us and say, hey, 
we're not comfortable wearing 

869
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,080
wigs anymore. 
This doesn't feel right. 

870
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,920
It feels like a costume. 
And even that at the time was 

871
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,400
like, what, you know, I mean, 
this is what we had always done,

872
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,640
right? 
It never seemed out of place or 

873
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,640
inappropriate in any way. 
And we kind of fought it a 

874
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,120
little bit in the beginning. 
And then they really put their 

875
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,240
foot down and say, hey, you 
know, we're not comfortable with

876
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,440
us and we're not going to dance 
if we have to keep wearing these

877
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,920
wigs. 
And we ultimately saw their 

878
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,760
point and we made that change. 
And they know a couple years 

879
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,320
later, no one thought the wiser 
of it. 

880
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,800
Fast forward another couple 
years and we were continuing to 

881
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:40,120
get just people questioned, you 
know, what we were doing and how

882
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,200
we were doing it. 
And it was coming from all over.

883
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:47,400
And so John and I came up with 
the idea to hold a couple just 

884
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:52,160
councils essentially kind of 
round tables at camp during 

885
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,120
preseason and and invite a 
number of Ajibwe educators and 

886
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,520
scholars and leaders to camp and
just talk about what we were 

887
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,040
doing and how we were doing it 
and get their feedback and 

888
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,360
listen to them. 
And that kind of started that 

889
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,040
process. 
And then from there, we continue

890
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,000
to do some outreach and got some
feedback. 

891
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,360
And one of the hardest ones that
we we got, and this was right 

892
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,520
during the COVID time. 
And you know, this was just a 

893
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,520
direct feedback that we got on 
our Honor Society midday. 

894
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,120
We had some people in that 
essentially brought to our 

895
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:35,320
attention that, you know, if you
go into a jib way culture and 

896
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:40,760
history, the Madea 1 and the 
Medeo society is a religious 

897
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,320
order. 
It's not a secret society. 

898
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,960
It's a religious order. 
And there are 6 levels of a day 

899
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,280
to become a six level Medeo and 
priest. 

900
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,480
And we were given direct 
feedback on that, that there 

901
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,840
wasn't probably anything more, I
guess, to say it offensive than 

902
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:09,280
using that word, that name, the 
Honor Society itself and all it 

903
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,320
stands for and the service, 
which is I know, you know, it's 

904
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,920
the most important part of it. 
That's all great. 

905
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,400
And the initiation and 
everything that goes in the 

906
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,200
ceremony, fine, but just the use
of the name. 

907
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,320
And so just change the name. 
And also the giving of Indian 

908
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,080
names is another very sacred 
honor within the Jubilee 

909
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,760
culture. 
So the giving away of Indian 

910
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:35,280
names is, you know, just felt to
them felt really, really wrong. 

911
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,480
And I can tell you a personal 
story. 

912
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,760
The gentleman who was on our 
board for a number of years, his

913
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,760
name is Dennis Jones, is the Jib
way name is Pabon Memenes. 

914
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,680
And I refers to himself as pay 
Bomb, the bomb. 

915
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,440
Really, really great guy, quite 
funny. 

916
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,440
We were over at the Oberholtzer 
Foundation. 

917
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,200
He's on the board of the 
Oberholtzer Foundation as well. 

918
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,200
Or he was. 
And I was telling him all about 

919
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:07,760
our madeo and society, and he's 
just listening to me as he does.

920
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,080
And he looks me straight in the 
face and says, so are you a 

921
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,480
Medea 1? 
And I kind of gulped. 

922
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,840
And to this day I wish that I 
had answered this differently. 

923
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,880
And kind of under my breath, I 
said yeah. 

924
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:31,120
And he said OK. 
And six months later, when we 

925
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,240
got back together to talk more 
about this, I said, Hey, I want 

926
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,360
to just tell you something I 
really regret or I wish I 

927
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,480
answered that question 
differently because obviously in

928
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:43,320
your society, I'm not a Madeoan.
I'm not anywhere close to a 

929
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,800
Madeoan. 
And he looked at me and he said,

930
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:51,080
in your society, you are. 
And that, I mean, I just to me 

931
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,000
showed the gratitude and the 
grace that he had for our, our, 

932
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:56,920
our Honor Society, what it stood
for. 

933
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,880
But I knew it was time to change
it. 

934
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:02,560
And so we pivoted to that. 
We put a committee together and 

935
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:08,000
we ultimately came up with a 
Latin phrase, adaspara ad Astra,

936
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,080
which means through adversity to
the stars. 

937
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,880
And we thought that that was a 
great representation of what the

938
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,600
Honor Society stands for. 
So it's now called the Grand 

939
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,600
honor of the Astra. 
And I can tell you that for 

940
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,480
folks, for, you know, and I get 
it. 

941
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,200
Look, I mean, people are two 3-4
steps removed from all of this 

942
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,520
and they're wondering what's 
going on and things are changing

943
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,440
and is it still the same? 
And is it still as hard and all 

944
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,920
that, this and that, whatever 
else. 

945
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,800
But I've said this a couple 
times. 

946
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:43,440
Last summer I watched Henry 
Vandenbark make Astra and I 

947
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,200
watched Charlie Hindley not. 
And I can tell you how much it 

948
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,520
meant to Charlie just by 
watching it, how hard it was for

949
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,760
him to sit there and watch his 
best friend. 

950
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:56,920
He was so proud of who made it, 
but he didn't. 

951
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,480
So for anybody to suggest that 
it doesn't mean as much or it's 

952
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,960
not as hard or it's not the 
same, come on up. 

953
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,720
Because that's just that's 
that's not correct. 

954
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,840
And so it every kid that goes 
through that place dreams of 

955
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,360
having their name on the wall 
and they still do. 

956
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,400
And it still means just as much.
It is just as powerful. 

957
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,720
So that was another step, Jeff. 
And then, you know, as we 

958
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,880
continued on this journey, one 
of the things we were advised to

959
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,880
do was just to continue to reach
out to a jib way elders and 

960
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,440
scholars in our community, in 
our area, in the Radi River 

961
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,880
district and get their opinion 
and their advice and try to get 

962
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,560
them more involved and become 
the way it was phrased to us, 

963
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,920
more native LED than native 
inspired. 

964
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,520
And we've we've done that. 
We did that. 

965
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:53,080
The one particular moment that 
I'll I never forget was we had 

966
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:58,920
had these, the Jetway scholars 
into to observe Grand Council. 

967
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:02,400
And I know you know this. 
I mean, this is something that 

968
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,800
we've done over the years and 
we've gone out back in Holden's 

969
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,520
time. 
They would go visit in the 

970
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,360
reservations. 
That's not really something that

971
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,760
we're able to do anymore, but 
they would invite folks in. 

972
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,200
That's not always as easy as 
said and done. 

973
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,280
He said it's done. 
But we had these folks in and I 

974
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,640
stood outside the council ring 
as they watched Grand Council 

975
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,520
and I watched them watch Grand 
Council. 

976
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,120
And it was really painful 
because I could just see the 

977
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,760
reactions in their faces. 
Some of it was anger and some of

978
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:39,360
it was just really, you know, 
deep hurt and tears. 

979
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,720
And the next morning we got 
together over at the Overholser 

980
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:46,320
Foundation again with Pay Mom, 
and he led a ceremony where we 

981
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,320
all shared that experience. 
I was there, Jr. was there, John

982
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,080
Great. 
Ryan London, who was the board 

983
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,280
chair at the time, as they 
expressed how difficult it was 

984
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,000
for them to watch what they had 
watched. 

985
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,800
And they were very respectful in
what they said, expressed that 

986
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,440
it's it's very obvious that what
you're doing, you're trying to 

987
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,280
do it with as much honor and 
respect as you can. 

988
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,560
We see that, but it's, you're 
not called, it's not your 

989
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,480
culture to share. 
It's not yours. 

990
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,960
And as much as you can take this
in respect that, you know, 

991
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,240
dancing and drumming is a very 
spiritual part of a gibboy 

992
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:30,160
culture and it's ours and it's 
not yours. 

993
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,800
And so recognize and realize 
that so much has been taken from

994
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:39,280
us over many, many, many, many 
centuries, and a lot of pain and

995
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,640
a lot of harm and a lot of 
trauma. 

996
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,200
And watching that just 
reinforces that and brings it 

997
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,960
back up. 
I know that's really hard for 

998
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:51,080
folks to hear because, you know,
we think of it is we are trying 

999
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,800
to honor, respect and always 
have is, you know, with 

1000
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,280
everything we've ever done. 
That was Mason's whole intent. 

1001
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,200
He's recorded in his books. 
But when you hear it first hand,

1002
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:06,480
and I've heard it now too many 
times, I can't say it any other 

1003
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,040
way, but it's just simply the 
right thing to do. 

1004
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,080
Well, it is simply the right 
thing to. 

1005
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,200
Do it could be different to. 
I mean, I'm not in those 

1006
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,160
meetings. 
And you know, I had a talk with 

1007
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,120
Jim Shook and he was asking me 
about it a summer or two ago and

1008
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,480
I said, Jim, look on the outside
looking in. 

1009
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,240
You know how much I love the 
Native American part of this. 

1010
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,560
I mean, I was it's in my blood 
so deep. 

1011
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,880
Yeah, I don't want it to happen,
but I'm not in those meetings. 

1012
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,400
I'm not hearing what's going on.
You know, I can sit on the 

1013
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,640
outside and point fingers, but I
don't know. 

1014
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:38,080
But I, I think you, from what 
I'm hearing, what I can gather 

1015
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,200
and and piece together, you can 
correct me if I'm wrong. 

1016
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:45,920
You know, Mason and Holden had a
different relationship with 

1017
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,760
maybe the people in the area 
back then as far as the Native 

1018
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,280
Americans in the area back then 
from John Netlake, you name it. 

1019
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,120
And you know, we all heard the 
story about the Roach. 

1020
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,680
Now we're dealing with a 
different group of people that 

1021
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,280
have a different view of it that
we're dealing. 

1022
00:55:58,320 --> 00:55:59,560
It's, it's a different world 
now. 

1023
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,560
Well, you know, that's they, 
they look at it a little bit 

1024
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:09,400
differently than what they 
looked at it back in the in the 

1025
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,440
50s and 60s and 70s, so to 
speak. 

1026
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:20,640
And I'm guessing you know. 
I think that I think that they 

1027
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:26,880
do look at, at differently. 
I think also to be fair, you 

1028
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,840
know, they have the, they have 
the courage now to express it 

1029
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,600
and to speak up and have more 
voice and agency than they ever 

1030
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,920
did. 
And it's just, I mean, if we 

1031
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,960
truly, truly want to honor them,
that we have to be willing to 

1032
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,000
listen. 
And I, I don't know that we 

1033
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,600
always have or that we really 
think we're doing anything 

1034
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,560
wrong. 
And I get that and I understand 

1035
00:56:54,560 --> 00:57:00,800
that and believe you me, you 
know, making this decision, you 

1036
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,200
know, and it certainly has 
absolutely the unanimous support

1037
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,480
of the board. 
But it's heavy. 

1038
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:06,720
Sure. 
I don't want to, I don't want to

1039
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:09,720
make this decision, Jeff. 
No, no, it's, I mean, it's, 

1040
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,680
it's, it's, it's sad and I'll 
never say it's not and it's 

1041
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,800
disappointing. 
But I go back to two things. 

1042
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,560
One, I know it's the right thing
to do, but more importantly, 

1043
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,640
let's talk about where it goes. 
Yes, that's. 

1044
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,320
Good. 
That's really that's really. 

1045
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,560
And I want to start with by 
saying that, you know, dancing 

1046
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,600
and wearing the regalia grants 
grand council. 

1047
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,800
You know, that is the outward 
expression, that's the artistic 

1048
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,880
expression of the values that we
hold so dear. 

1049
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,440
That starts with the law of the 
woods. 

1050
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,800
And just to be clear, the law of
the woods is not a native 

1051
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,440
doctrine. 
It came out of earth. 

1052
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,760
Ernest Thompson Seaton, that's 
not native by any stretch. 

1053
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Mason adopted it from there. 
But those values that are 

1054
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:08,040
expressed in the law of the 
woods that really truly speak to

1055
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:14,560
how we not just honor this 
culture, but also how we view 

1056
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,120
the land and how we view the 
earth and all that. 

1057
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:19,760
All the respect that comes with 
that. 

1058
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,760
That's not going anywhere. 
That connection that that aspect

1059
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,800
of it is more powerful than 
ever. 

1060
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,440
And I think that's really our 
challenge now is to figure out, 

1061
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,280
OK, how do we represent it in a 
different way? 

1062
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:39,680
And I think that starts just 
with really digging deeper into 

1063
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,640
our tripping program. 
We're a, we're a tripping camp. 

1064
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,800
I mean, go back to Holden again,
Camp Kutching, A waterness 

1065
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,120
quest. 
You remember that that was they 

1066
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,760
branded that back in the 70s. 
We've always first and foremost 

1067
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,560
been a been a tripping camp. 
I mean, yeah, we were a football

1068
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,680
camp way, way back, but we went 
from that. 

1069
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,440
I mean when Mason and Holden 
came in, it was the tripping 

1070
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,880
that really changed and that was
really, you know, the impetus 

1071
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,760
for making Kuching what it is 
today. 

1072
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:13,240
So what I am hoping that we are 
going to focus on is just how do

1073
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,120
we take our tripping program 
deeper in terms of the values 

1074
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,120
we're talking about. 
As an example, how many times 

1075
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,440
have I heard from alumni, Gosh, 
I wish I knew more about the 

1076
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,360
routes that we went on and where
we went and the history behind 

1077
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,080
it. 
So there's a great opportunity 

1078
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,960
there to really dig into that 
more. 

1079
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,440
Our woodsmanship program. 
We can dig deeper and deeper. 

1080
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,280
Same thing with our crafts in 
terms of, you know, really 

1081
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,320
exploring, you know, native 
traditions and concepts behind 

1082
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,240
that. 
There's absolutely nothing wrong

1083
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,920
with that at all. 
Again, the performance piece, 

1084
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,200
that's something that you know 
is really challenging, but just 

1085
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,960
figuring out how to honor those 
values even better and do but do

1086
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,040
it in a deeper way and relate 
that back to our tripping 

1087
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,080
program. 
To me, that's where I think the 

1088
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,680
opportunity is. 
And then we have to get creative

1089
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,280
and we have to think, OK, how do
we put how do we turn that into 

1090
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,200
a celebration? 
How do we turn that into a 

1091
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,760
ceremony? 
What does that actually look 

1092
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,040
like? 
And I be honest, I don't know 

1093
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,440
yet that's going to take a lot 
of creative thought, but. 

1094
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,520
Mason did it, Holden did it. 
So, you know, that's our 

1095
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,160
challenge today. 
And we have a lot of creative 

1096
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,080
individuals in this 
organization. 

1097
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,800
And I know, I know we will may 
not get it right, right out of 

1098
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,280
the gate, but I know we'll get 
there. 

1099
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,040
And I'd like to think a few 
years down the road, you know, 

1100
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,040
no one will even be the wiser. 
I mean, OK, well, this is the 

1101
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,640
this is now the modern program. 
This is now how we represent 

1102
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,200
those values. 
And they mean as much as ever. 

1103
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,040
And, and just take that on and 
see where it goes. 

1104
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,120
And so I think it's a great 
opportunity for current 

1105
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:55,720
leadership coming in and the 
leadership that's there now to 

1106
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,240
get involved in that. 
You know, so much a leadership 

1107
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,200
is really, as you said earlier, 
is, you know, how do you lead 

1108
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,240
through change? 
You know, that's called change 

1109
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,280
management. 
And whether we're talking about,

1110
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,320
you know, the the kid who's had 
a Red Lodge or the unit head or 

1111
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,240
just the cabin staff guy and on 
up into senior leadership. 

1112
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,760
And there's an opportunity for 
everybody to get involved in 

1113
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,480
that and really come up with 
something that's going to be 

1114
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,840
powerful, that's going to 
resonate. 

1115
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,880
And we'll all look back on this 
5 or 10 years and go look, look 

1116
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,640
what we did, look what we 
created and take it positive 

1117
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,040
versus kind of having one foot 
back in the old way and saying, 

1118
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,160
OK, well, you know, we're, 
we're, we're missing out or 

1119
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:37,840
we're losing out or it's not 
going to be as good. 

1120
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,480
Because I think it's, it's going
to be, it's going to be great. 

1121
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,080
It's just going to be different.
Yeah. 

1122
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,080
Well, I know you in your 
position that that that's not an

1123
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,200
easy spot. 
And you know, I know, I know how

1124
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,640
much I know what we grew up with
up there and how important that 

1125
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,920
was. 
And, and it's tough, I'm sure 

1126
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,880
for some of the old timers to 
see the change. 

1127
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,880
And I just hope they understand 
that this was a difficult thing.

1128
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,680
And, and you try to see it 
through a different set of eyes.

1129
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:06,480
You know, none of us, including 
you, really wanted to have to 

1130
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:09,040
make that decision. 
But you know, I think if they 

1131
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,360
would have heard everything. 
And I asked you this question, I

1132
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,840
remember talking to you, I said 
he was this one or two people. 

1133
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,160
And you said, Jeff, no, ever. 
There's like 7 different groups 

1134
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:22,440
around the area, tribes groups, 
whatever that you went to 

1135
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,880
everyone of them and everyone of
them had the same exact comment 

1136
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,680
back to you that hey, this is 
not, this is not good. 

1137
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:33,840
Basically this is, and you know,
I, we never thought that way. 

1138
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,120
We never tried to do anything to
hurt him. 

1139
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,840
That's for sure to disrespect 
them, but it is what it is. 

1140
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,240
And, and if that's how they 
feel, that's how they feel. 

1141
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:46,320
And you know, we'll put our best
foot forward and, and get kids 

1142
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,080
are this is still a great place 
with some great people. 

1143
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:52,440
And and, you know, I think 
everybody understands that. 

1144
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,600
I also have to acknowledge that 
it's, you know, it takes time 

1145
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,240
for people to process this. 
You know, I've been, I've been 

1146
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,360
living and dealing, dealing with
this now for a number of years. 

1147
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,360
And so when you hear it first 
hand, I mean, I've talked to a 

1148
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:08,600
lot of people already and 
they're like, wow, I mean, 

1149
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,440
that's a gut punch. 
Wow, that's really sad. 

1150
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,640
It takes time. 
It takes time to absorb it. 

1151
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,560
And frankly, part of it is also 
the unknown. 

1152
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,000
Like you don't, you don't know 
where it's going to go, you 

1153
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:21,120
don't know what it's going to 
be. 

1154
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:25,240
And so I think until we get 
there, it's going to take people

1155
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,040
time to process through that. 
And you know, and I, I respect 

1156
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:30,360
that. 
I'm not, you know, I'm not 

1157
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,000
trying to change anybody's mind 
or opinion or tell them that 

1158
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,200
they're wrong of me or tell them
what we used to do was wrong, 

1159
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,360
because that's not the case at 
all by by any means. 

1160
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,200
But it is, it's the right thing 
to do. 

1161
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,720
It it it's time to move forward 
and we will, and we'll do that 

1162
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,880
in a, in a great way. 
I mean, you know. 

1163
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,200
I think to start even before 
you, I mean, talking to Steve 

1164
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,400
Hindley, he and I talked about 
it the other day and he had 

1165
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,480
mentioned, he said Kohl's. 
He said, listen, and the back in

1166
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,720
the early 2000s when I was in 
this, we were getting calls 

1167
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:01,840
starting, starting up. 
So this has been going on for a 

1168
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,840
while. 
The call started a long time 

1169
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:08,360
ago, 25 plus years ago, 
questioning, you know, and we've

1170
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,840
been trying to keep it there as 
long as we have. 

1171
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,240
And yeah, it is what it is, you 
know. 

1172
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,080
But hey, that's why the good 
Lord put eyes in the front of 

1173
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,480
our head for a reason. 
We're going to keep moving 

1174
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,880
forward here. 
Another way to to say it or 

1175
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:27,440
think about it, and this kind of
relates to, you know, the other 

1176
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,000
part of the organization now, 
which is just as vibrant as 

1177
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:31,960
anything. 
And that's our urban program, 

1178
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,760
which I'll, I want to touch on a
little bit, is that we are a 

1179
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,040
microcosm of society. 
You know, I referenced way back 

1180
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,120
when, you know, we were isolated
up there. 

1181
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:45,080
We were a bubble. 
We are the farthest thing from a

1182
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,040
bubble anymore. 
I mean, we have influences from 

1183
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,000
every direction. 
We have challenges from every 

1184
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,640
direction. 
And so, you know, we truly are a

1185
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,320
microcosm of society in every 
way, shape and form. 

1186
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,280
And we do that the absolute best
that we can to keep a lot of 

1187
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,760
aspects of that out. 
You know that I mean, we, we've 

1188
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,520
always said that, I mean, at 
camp, it's just about camp. 

1189
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,800
And one thing that you and I 
haven't talked a whole lot about

1190
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,960
or just sad and you know this as
well as anyone, camp has always 

1191
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,440
been about fun, always been 
about fun. 

1192
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,920
If it's not fun, then kids 
aren't coming back. 

1193
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:22,120
So for the kids, you know, all 
this stuff is in the background,

1194
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,600
you know, want to make it as fun
and as it powerful, as 

1195
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,160
impactful. 
And, you know, I can speak to 

1196
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,200
that first hand with my three 
kids at camp and my wife. 

1197
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,440
I mean, camp is more meaningful 
than ever. 

1198
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,360
It's more impactful than ever. 
Kids need this more than ever. 

1199
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,360
They're disconnected nature, 
their addiction to screens or 

1200
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,960
their overuse of screens and 
everything over scheduling. 

1201
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,840
You know, parents, we think of 
it as a reset. 

1202
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,400
I know that's how we look at it.
And so it's so powerful. 

1203
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,880
And I think one thing that you 
know, I'm particularly proud of 

1204
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,360
and I can speak for others in 
this regard, is, you know, how 

1205
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,560
we've expanded camp, both up at 
camp and then also through our 

1206
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:04,680
urban program just to reach that
many more kids. 

1207
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,240
You know, we have an amazing 
scholarship program now up at 

1208
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:11,560
camp between Kuchana Gitchi, 
close to 100 kids. 

1209
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,480
There aren't some form of 
scholarship. 

1210
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,080
And then with our urban program,
which we started now, it's been 

1211
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:22,280
about 13 years, you know, we are
serving between Cincinnati and 

1212
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:26,000
Minneapolis and some outer 
cities, you know, 3-4 thousand 

1213
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,680
kids a year. 
And these are all kids that 

1214
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,600
would hardly ever get this type 
of opportunity. 

1215
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,720
You know, for those that don't 
know a lot about this program, 

1216
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,920
it's probably 15 years ago now 
that I went to the board and 

1217
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,320
kind of just threw out this idea
of, hey, how do we export the 

1218
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,400
magic of the Northwoods to an 
urban environment? 

1219
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,800
What would that look like? 
Why do we have to bring kids all

1220
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,600
the way up here and into Canada 
for them to have a similar 

1221
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:53,960
experience, even if it's in a 
shortened form? 

1222
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,040
And I'd be a liar if I sat here 
and told you I had it all 

1223
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,720
figured out back then. 
I didn't by any means. 

1224
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,720
I had a vision, I had an idea. 
And I think back to the 

1225
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,680
beginning and all the folks that
were involved and developing 

1226
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,480
that, you know, starting, you 
know, all the various program 

1227
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,160
directors from Melinda Roscoe, 
now Melinda Bowers to Kit 

1228
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:19,080
Summers and Susie Jolly and now 
Trey Stunning, who is just 

1229
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:20,840
taking the program to another 
level. 

1230
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:26,680
It's been amazing to watch how 
this is developed and the impact

1231
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,920
that it has. 
And, you know, through Harbor 

1232
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:30,520
Wilderness, we get kids up to 
camp. 

1233
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,000
We get them to Oakanzi, our 
outpost. 

1234
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,480
And you know, Steve Sullivan, I 
know Sully said this to me when 

1235
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:38,760
we were first starting this 
program. 

1236
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,560
He's like, I don't get it. 
Like, you know, we're taking 

1237
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,080
kids out for a day or so, you 
know, on the Ohio River or the 

1238
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,200
Little Miami and, you know, 
how's that going to be 

1239
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,000
impactful? 
And, you know, he was driving 

1240
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,360
the, the bus for us back then to
get the kids out. 

1241
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,120
And I remember the, the very 
first trip we did down the Ohio 

1242
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:01,640
and, you know, you drop the kids
off. 

1243
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,120
And these kids, most of them 
have never been in a canoe. 

1244
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,760
They've never been on the water.
They're nervous as hell. 

1245
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:11,920
They're shaking like a leaf. 
And we, we load them up and 

1246
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,080
then, you know, they come back 
at the end of the day. 

1247
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,840
And Sully looks at me. 
He's like, it's just like camp 

1248
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:17,960
man. 
It's just like returning from a 

1249
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,160
trip. 
I mean, it's just as impactful 

1250
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,520
in one day with these kids as it
is for, you know, what we do up 

1251
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:28,200
at camp for 10 days or two weeks
or more so. 

1252
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,200
And it gets a little taste in 
their mouth. 

1253
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:32,439
They want them to keep, to keep 
going further. 

1254
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,680
There's more to this, you know, 
I want to see what's further 

1255
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,160
down the road to do more of 
this, you know, But it gives 

1256
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:40,760
them just enough. 
And I've seen all the notes in 

1257
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,520
the office on the board. 
It's just amazing the number of 

1258
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,200
kids that write thank you notes 
to you guys for this, for this 

1259
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:48,640
program. 
It's just it's a great thing. 

1260
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:52,680
It is. 
And you know, one of the great 

1261
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:57,720
aspects of this program that I 
was hoping for, again, didn't 

1262
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,560
know if it would evolve this 
way, but we now have more 

1263
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,600
people, more staff working in 
urban waters whole time than we 

1264
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,040
do the rest of the offseason 
leadership team. 

1265
01:09:08,279 --> 01:09:11,600
You know, with all that we're 
serving both in Minneapolis, in 

1266
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,080
Cincinnati. 
And what's so impactful about 

1267
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:17,800
that is that all those 
individuals who are key summer 

1268
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,120
leaders are at camp in the 
summertime. 

1269
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,880
And these are all people that we
wouldn't normally be able to 

1270
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,040
retain. 
They'd already be off, you know,

1271
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,720
doing their own thing and would 
be able to keep them. 

1272
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,479
And they're, they're excellent 
at what they do. 

1273
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,760
And we've got outdoor program 
people. 

1274
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,680
We've got Maddie Anderson, who's
a fabulous grant writer, the 

1275
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,960
Dunning Brothers, on and on and 
on. 

1276
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,680
Abby Aron up in in Minneapolis. 
And to go into the schools and 

1277
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:46,920
watch these guys teach these kid
how to make a handmade canoe. 

1278
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,600
And it's just a great STEM 
project and teachers eat it up. 

1279
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:56,560
It's, it's, it's really, it's, 
it's really powerful to see it, 

1280
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:59,200
to watch and to see how we've 
been able to expand that. 

1281
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,520
So that's, you know, it kind of 
goes back to your point about 

1282
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,840
the complexity of this place, 
But, you know, it's all for the 

1283
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,720
better. 
And I'd be remiss if I didn't 

1284
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,560
sit here and give it just a 
tremendous thanks to all the 

1285
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,920
alumni out there that support 
this place. 

1286
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,720
You know how tough that is. 
You've been in a development 

1287
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:24,840
role, you know, a good number of
years now, and you never take 

1288
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,240
that for granted, right? 
I mean, that's just, you know, 

1289
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,480
it doesn't matter the amount 
when so whatsoever. 

1290
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:34,360
It's back to Tim's phrase, Many 
hands make light work. 

1291
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:40,200
And it's been an amazing journey
to evolve that and to be where 

1292
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:41,960
we are now with that type of 
support. 

1293
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:43,520
It's what makes this whole thing
go. 

1294
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,120
And no doubt without it, without
it, we wouldn't be here. 

1295
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,440
That's right, it is I've 
reconnected with people here and

1296
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:52,800
and I've talked to him. 
I said, look there there there's

1297
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,600
been a lot of people before us 
that gave their time and their 

1298
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,280
talent their treasure so that we
can enjoy camp our years. 

1299
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,760
It's our turn to step up now to 
keep this thing going. 

1300
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,920
So many kids are relying on us. 
So and I really hit home with 

1301
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,160
them. 
And that's why I'm I'm so 

1302
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,400
grateful, Hugh, that you've 
allowed me to come back and be a

1303
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,920
small part of the organization 
and just, you know, get re 

1304
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,840
engaging with our alumni. 
And I've been loving every 

1305
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,760
second of it and really, really,
really look forward to getting 

1306
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,040
people from from our era back 
involved in and to tell the 

1307
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:27,000
stories that we've had. 
And you know it, it's going to 

1308
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,680
be great. 
So, you know, as we wrap this 

1309
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:33,320
up, is there anything else that 
that you'd like to share or show

1310
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:38,120
or tell or that you want to talk
about? 

1311
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:45,240
3 little things come to mind. 
OK, one is when I was a first 

1312
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,480
year senior working on my then 
my day project and I was 

1313
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:52,440
replacing one of the, at that 
time wooden basketball 

1314
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,120
stanchions. 
Yes. 

1315
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:01,000
And I had no idea what I was 
getting myself into with this 

1316
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:03,760
project. 
And as I dug deeper and deeper 

1317
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:08,440
and deeper, eventually hit 
water, I was over my head. 

1318
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:13,520
And as you know, you know, you 
got to walk by the basketball 

1319
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,600
court to get to the dining hall.
And John Holden's cabin is right

1320
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,200
there. 
And every day he'd walk by me. 

1321
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,400
And he, you know, kind of look 
at it. 

1322
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,120
And, you know, John hardly ever 
said anything. 

1323
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:26,320
I'm convinced of this, Jay. 
My one regret is I didn't know 

1324
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:31,080
John is an older person because 
I always wanted to ask him, you 

1325
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,320
know, what was the secret 
behind, you know, his silence 

1326
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:35,920
and his strength. 
And I'm convinced it was the 

1327
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,360
pipe and that he had that pipe 
in his mouth so he wouldn't say 

1328
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,240
anything and he'd just bite down
on it, right. 

1329
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,360
So every day he walks by and I'm
getting deeper and deeper and 

1330
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,920
deeper and deeper and literally 
I, it's at one point I'm over my

1331
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,400
head. 
And 11 morning, he's walking by 

1332
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,360
and he's, he stops and he looks 
down and I am literally over my 

1333
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,640
head now. 
And he hadn't said a word. 

1334
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,840
He looks down and he takes his 
pipe out and he's like, that's 

1335
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:05,000
one hell of a hole. 
And that's all he said he walked

1336
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,440
on. 
So, you know, that's 1-2. 

1337
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,400
You know, one of the best trips 
I ever took was the Seal River. 

1338
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:16,800
And I know that so many have. 
And, you know, you come into my 

1339
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,120
house to see books about polar 
bears all over the place. 

1340
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,280
Yeah, because I had a couple 
encounters on that trip and 

1341
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:28,240
that's something I will never, 
ever forget as long as I live 

1342
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,960
paddling across the Bay and, you
know, coming close with some of 

1343
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,840
those encounters. 
That is just that just really 

1344
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:38,920
speaks to the influence and and 
the magnitude of being out there

1345
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,960
in the power of nature, which, 
you know, there's there's 

1346
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:46,200
nothing that replaces that. 
And then lastly, Jeff, I just 

1347
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:50,480
want to share one thing too. 
I think you know that we are, 

1348
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,200
we're going through some 
leadership changes. 

1349
01:13:53,440 --> 01:13:57,680
It's a moment in time. 
This place is not static. 

1350
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,120
It it does move forward. 
We've had an amazing amount of 

1351
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,280
people that have been involved 
in this place. 

1352
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:05,320
Whether you're talking about a 
cabin staff person, you're 

1353
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:08,600
talking about someone that's 
helping in the kitchen, you're 

1354
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,920
talking about leadership and and
certainly up to the director 

1355
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,840
roles and had the good fortune 
of knowing most of them. 

1356
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:23,160
And I just want to acknowledge 
the tremendous service and work 

1357
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,000
and gifts that both J Arbor Camp
and Johanna Ernst have given to 

1358
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:32,680
this place over the years. 
They will leave a legacy that is

1359
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,040
really powerful. 
I don't know who was it first 

1360
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,360
said, if it was Holdner, maybe 
even back to Vance who said 

1361
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,280
always leave the campsite better
than you found it. 

1362
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,640
And I think both of those two 
have done that. 

1363
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,160
And I just want to acknowledge 
what they've done and I want to 

1364
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,520
wish them well in the in their 
new pursuit and just thank them.

1365
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:58,080
Yep, Great, great. 
Well, Hugh, thanks for 

1366
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,360
everything, man. 
I mean, I think what you've done

1367
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,560
with this place and where you, 
what you build to this at this 

1368
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,280
point, it's just, it's just 
amazing. 

1369
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:09,000
You know, we've, I think you've 
got us aligned in a, in a safe 

1370
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:12,360
place for the, in a, in a not an
easy time to run a camp, you 

1371
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:17,200
know, but I know we, we talked 
quite a bit and, and the 

1372
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,480
capacity of the things that 
you're dealing with is just 

1373
01:15:19,480 --> 01:15:21,880
tremendous. 
I feel, you know, of what's on 

1374
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,280
your plate. 
And personally, I want to thank,

1375
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,760
I know on behalf of everybody 
involved with the camps that we 

1376
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,680
can have a place like this. 
Thanks for all your efforts and 

1377
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,440
all you deal with. 
And I know it's not easy some 

1378
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:37,000
days, but we appreciate you 
hanging tough and, you know, 

1379
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:39,400
can't wait to catch up with you 
again here soon. 

1380
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:42,640
Hey, it's it's an honor and I'm 
blessed. 

1381
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,240
My family's blessed. 
And thank you, Jeff. 

1382
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,600
Really appreciate it, man. 
Alright, thanks again.