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Welcome to the Grim Frost 
podcast. 

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Today we welcome back Einar 
Selvik, musician, composer, and 

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the man behind the global 
phenomenon Vardruna. 

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Welcome back to the Grim Frost 
Longhouse. 

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Pleasure to be here. 
Thank you. 

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Great to have you here again. 
Yes, because you were the very 

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first guest we had for this pod 
exactly 2 years ago, and now 

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you're here for the first 
episode of our third season. 

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So it feels fitting. 
Yeah, so, umm, how you been? 

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Chronically busy, I would say, 
but yeah, it's, it's been, uh, 

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it's been good. 
Eventful. 

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Yeah, In, in this. 
I guess being busy is a kind of 

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a luxurious problem. 
I guess so. 

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But yeah, can't remember if 
yeah, when I was here the last 

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time I was probably in studio 
mode, I presume working on the 

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album. 
Sounds like you actually said 

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something around that. 
Yeah, studio mode thing. 

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Yeah, which was, yeah, that part
is of course a very rewarding, 

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but also a very challenging 
part, I think, or demanding in a

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way, all consuming. 
It is, isn't it? 

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Because you have to go all in on
it. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
I, I can't, I can't be involved 

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in a lot of other things when 
I'm doing that. 

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I need to focus. 
Yeah, but as you said, since 

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last time, you've been very 
busy. 

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And I mean, you've you released 
your sixth album. 

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Yep, the beer. 
Now you've been on a massive 

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world tour supporting this album
and you made a documentary. 

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Yes. 
That's that's a lot of stuff, 

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but we're going to talk about 
all this stuff, but let's start 

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with a touring, I think. 
So 66 albums in, how do you 

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build a like a set list? 
That's yeah, you know, you know,

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because. 
I know. 

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Yeah, it's, I don't think people
realise how how much thought 

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goes into it and how challenging
it is because in a way you're, 

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you're doing storytelling, 
you're doing energy work in a 

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way. 
And, and also in, in there is a 

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big logistical question, who 
does what in what song? 

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You know, for, for our 
instrumentation, certain 

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instruments you, you shouldn't 
do to, you know, like, for 

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instance, the, the horn 
instrument, if you, if you've 

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played a song that is really 
demanding for the lip, you 

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can't, you have to have a break 
until you go back into that 

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instrument again. 
And things like that. 

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A lot of small details. 
So, so it's a, it's a actually 

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quite a challenging jig jigsaw 
and, and and introducing new 

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songs, of course, is a, a very 
big part of, of especially the 

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process we've been doing now 
supporting in a new album. 

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Then then of course, I I'm a 
believer in in carefully 

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introducing new songs and and 
also also to find its right 

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place in in the story or trying 
to to to tell. 

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Yeah, I totally see that because
you can't want to have as you 

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said, well, let's go back to 
something you said first 

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actually, because you said 
you're building a story or and 

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it's energy work, narrative 
work. 

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Which comes first then? 
I well, they're. 

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Or is it something else that's 
more important? 

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They're very well, I like to, 
they're all woven together, I 

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think. 
So whether you're telling a 

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story, because telling a story 
is also about energy, when to 

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when to, when to demand space 
and when to lean back and, and 

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when to pick it up the, the 
energy and, and when it's time 

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to to let things sink in. 
And, and that introducing new 

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songs, for instance, is a big 
part of that, you know, because 

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a song that is new to people, 
you listen in a different way. 

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So you so from for us on stage, 
we won't necessarily get that 

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energy feedback that you get 
from playing songs that people 

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know, you know, Yeah. 
So, so picking the right places 

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for those, both for us and and 
for the audience is of course 

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really important. 
Plus plus also the way I feel 

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anyways is you want to have a 
nice flow of the music from 

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start to finish so that you just
don't blast through it or you're

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not too mellow like it has to be
like some ups and downs in the 

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energy like you say. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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And, and also I believe, I 
believe in, in, in daring to, to

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demand something from the 
audience as well to, to make it 

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a little bit challenging at 
first. 

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For instance, keep the tension 
going for a long time before 

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you, you sort of introduce some,
some sort of release. 

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So daring to be a bit bold 
sometimes. 

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I, I think it has its benefits, 
but you, you don't necessarily 

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feel it there then and there, 
but perhaps later in the sense 

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you will sort of get a reward 
for, for it as an audience as 

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well. 
I think you're right. 

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I think from, from my 
perspective, when you say this 

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actually kind of makes sense to 
how we in Amnemarth think about 

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these things as well. 
I mean, we're not here to talk 

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about Amnemarth specifically, 
but just saying, yeah, yeah. 

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But it's, it's, it's a, it's how
you connect with the audience. 

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Yeah. 
And to make them a part of the 

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whole, the whole thing, not just
be you being the artist. 

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And then the show is the 
audience and the artist 

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together, basically. 
It's a dialogue. 

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It's yeah, it's such a yeah, it 
is a dialogue for 100% dialogue.

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And, and that can be, you know, 
this the small, smallest things 

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that that is that energy 
exchange. 

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It can be things from like you 
see people singing the, the 

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lyrics or, or if they are 
dancing or if they are you, you 

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know, if they are emotional or, 
or if they are verbal, you know,

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it can count come in all sorts 
of forms and all of those 

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things. 
It's, it's part of that 

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dialogue, that exchange of, of 
energy, which is why also, you 

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know, you can play the same 
room, same set list 2 nights in 

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a row, but it's going to be 100%
different energy because you're 

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not the same. 
The people gathered in the room 

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is not the same. 
Yeah, I, I think even if it were

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the same people, it wouldn't be 
the same. 

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No, it's, it's all moments. 
It's all in the moment. 

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Exactly. 
So Speaking of that, I mean, you

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played like some some very 
specific and and amazing venues 

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like the, the the Royal Albert 
Hall, you played the Acropolis, 

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you played Pompeii on this tour,
I am seem to recall. 

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Yes. 
And you play like a in Native 

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American reservations. 
Like, how does playing different

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venues like these and different 
countries affect your experience

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as a musician? 
And. 

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And like. 
Yeah. 

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Well, it's a, I, I think some of
these actually, I, I think that 

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some of these very charismatic, 
strong energy, for whatever 

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reason places they can be a bit 
challenging because OK, or 

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challenging is perhaps not the 
right word, but they, they can 

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be demanding in the sense that. 
Almost daunting or. 

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I don't know they can steal your
focus. 

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So it's demanding in the sense 
that you have to really focus on

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your job, on being present or 
else you're going to like, I'm 

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very disciplined in terms of not
creating stories before I go to 

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a place, you know, I, I going to
Pompeii or Acropolis. 

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I for me, I, until I got there, 
I, I have the focus that it's a,

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it's a regular day on the job 
because that's what the place 

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deserves and demands and that's 
what the audience demands. 

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It is. 
Yeah, it is. 

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It's the same job you're doing 
just that it's going to be more 

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difficult because you know, the 
energy of some of these places 

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just for, just for their 
aesthetic or, or, or their, the 

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history you just feel or, or the
expectations you feel in the 

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whole crowd. 
And and and also for us, of 

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course. 
Plus also the crowd being in 

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that specific place, I imagine 
they their energy is going to be

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different. 
It 100% yeah. 

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So, so in terms of preparation, 
I, I, it's almost like I, I push

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it away in a sense. 
I try to be very neat and 

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disciplined and sometimes I'm I 
succeed, sometimes I don't. 

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You know, it's but, but that's 
the. 

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We're not machines. 
No. 

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And that's the school also, you 
know, now we've done it a few 

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times playing in, in, in, yeah, 
some pretty spectacular places. 

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And yeah, every time I learn 
something new. 

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But but of course it is, it is 
humbling. 

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And and especially those moments
when you're truly present and 

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you're truly able to, to also 
enjoy it, you know, just really 

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soak it in. 
That's, yeah, that's profound. 

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That's something I I, I will 
never forget. 

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Which venue would you say has 
been the most exciting then to 

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play? 
I don't know. 

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I don't know. 
And that's, you know, playing 

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maybe the first show we ever 
did, but in front of the the 

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Gokstar Viking ship in, in 
Norway. 

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Because, yeah, I had no clue how
it would work. 

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We had never played live before,
you know, So, so that kind of 

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pressure. 
But of course, for this, for 

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this tour in in particular, I 
would have to say that Pompeii 

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sticks out because just yeah, 
one one thing is that the 

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history and and that sort of 
magnitude is something you grow,

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grew up with the history of this
totally unique, powerful place. 

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But also in popular culture, you
know, it's with, with, with Pink

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Pink Floyd's performance at. 
So it's sort of has a, has a 

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place in, in modern music 
history as well as this 

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legendary place. 
So when, when that invitation 

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came, I, yeah, I, I'm a, I'm a 
pretty mellow guy. 

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I don't get like visibly very 
excited, you know, But I, I 

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think that's one of the few 
occasions where yeah, yeah, I, I

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got more expressive. 
I can imagine because I mean to 

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me it sounds like I've never 
been to Pompeii myself, but it 

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seems like such a such a insane 
place. 

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I remember when I was a kid 
watching a Swedish documentary 

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about Pompeii and when they 
showed like, all these rooms 

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where like, people who died in 
their sleep and all this stuff, 

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and just through the television 
set. 

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Yeah, that was amazing. 
Yeah, and but it was also a sort

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of a anti climax because when I 
woke up that that morning in 

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Pompeii, my my voice was gone, 
which is of course that's that's

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the nightmare. 
You know, I was like, really? 

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How, how, how do you, how do 
you, what do you do then? 

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Because that's going to be a 
panic thing. 

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Yeah, well, first thing is don't
panic. 

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And well, I think actually, you 
know, when you, I, I think it 

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because I got a cold, it was 
like extreme air conditioned on 

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the plane there. 
I had, I didn't sleep properly 

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the night before because 
travelling and all of that. 

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And which is of course, you 
know, the most important thing a

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singer does on tour is sleep 
because that's when you rebuild 

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everything. 
So it was a number of things 

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that sort of pointed the wrong 
way. 

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So I I could sort of feel things
coming up, but I don't know. 

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You have to stay silent. 
You have to drink a lot. 

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And, and of course I have like 
these things I do like, I always

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have a lot of like 97% 
concentrated ginger bruise and, 

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and things like that. 
Yeah, it is. 

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It is very, very good. 
And of course I had to be really

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silent the whole whole day and 
not use my voice at all. 

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So and, and stay calm. 
Don't stress, don't stress the 

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body. 
And but of course it was, it was

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horrible, exhausting in a way 
just but, but thankfully, when 

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I, when I started doing the 
warmups before I could feel that

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OK, I, I have the whole range is
still there, but I didn't know 

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how long it would last. 
So I I sort of needed to hold 

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back the the first songs, but 
then I could feel like. 

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I think you need to trust the, 
the, the microphone and the PA. 

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Yeah. 
Like you need to learn how to 

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trust that even if you need to 
be. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Softer, yeah, yeah, hold, hold a

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little bit back. 
Absolutely for. 

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For me, often holding back can 
actually be worse yeah than 

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going full on. 
Yeah. 

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But yeah. 
The strange thing is that my my 

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audio our our front of house 
technician, he said I was that 

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I, I was actually like between 
1:00 and 3:00 DB decibel louder 

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than I am normally. 
So, so. 

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But in my mind I was holding 
back. 

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So well, actually that actually 
does make sense because I heard 

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somewhere that they did a test 
with sprinters and this is 

222
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,360
completely different, I know, 
but they they asked the 

223
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,640
sprinter, one of the best in the
world to do it like 100 meter 

224
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,920
dash at the top of like to give 
it everything. 

225
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,240
So he did that and then timed it
and then he had to rest for a 

226
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,960
little bit, but while and then 
he was told like now do one at 

227
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,000
roughly 85% of your capacity and
he was actually faster. 

228
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:26,160
Yeah. 
Because when you do it like full

229
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,000
on, you tense up. 
Yeah. 

230
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,800
And that's what I feel myself as
well. 

231
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,560
Like if I go too hard obviously 
then. 

232
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. 
But there is, there is some 

233
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,680
perfect logics to that. 
Yeah, that sounds reasonable. 

234
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,000
But I actually do have a tip for
you if you would ever encounter 

235
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,040
such a situation again because 
this is what I was given by a 

236
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,640
Swedish vocal Doctor Who is 
specializes in all pressing ears

237
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,880
and he said you have to get a 
resonance tube. 

238
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,000
Oh yeah, yes, I do that. 
You do that? 

239
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Because those, when you use 

240
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,920
those like I wake up like like 
you and I do that for like 10-15

241
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,960
minutes and then I have my 
speaking voice back. 

242
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,200
In Yeah. 
Yeah, it's really good stuff. 

243
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,360
Yeah. 
It it, it, it does work. 

244
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,480
But I've, I need to be better at
using it. 

245
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,520
For me. 
I've only used it like in in 

246
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,240
crisis situations, which is 
yeah. 

247
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,200
I use it as a part of my warm up
now. 

248
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,480
Yeah, Yeah, That's really good. 
Yeah. 

249
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,080
Anyways, so then you know what 
it is? 

250
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,120
Yes. 
All right. 

251
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,840
So you did all these amazing 
places. 

252
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,360
You played all these places in 
the world did did the the new 

253
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,120
that the Berna material did 
that. 

254
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,760
Do you feel that it it changed 
or evolved as you performed it 

255
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,920
live over time? 
Yes, yes, absolutely. 

256
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:06,760
How well you never, you never 
know how, how it's going to 

257
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,640
work. 
You never know if it's going to 

258
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,000
work. 
That's my experience. 

259
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:16,240
I have been, I've been fooled 
several times with, with songs 

260
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,240
that I think will work either 
better or, or, or not so good, 

261
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,720
you know, and it can go both 
ways with, with these songs. 

262
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,160
I, I think, I don't know it, 
it's something with some, some 

263
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:40,680
songs are, are very immediate in
the sense that they, I don't 

264
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,120
know you, you find your place in
it in that form. 

265
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,160
For me, performing a song on 
stage is very different from 

266
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,600
creating it and, and, and 
perform it or, or recording it 

267
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:59,800
in, in terms of energy. 
And I don't know, like, like the

268
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:06,960
title track for me, from the 
very first moment, it just felt 

269
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:13,200
like it would like it wanted to,
to be played in that format. 

270
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,440
I could find my place in it at 
once. 

271
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,960
And and whereas like some of the
other songs have been more. 

272
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,840
Challenging to be completely 
honest, like the song he mean 

273
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,560
Doctor, which is also in the 
studio. 

274
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,720
It's, it has very like, I don't 
know how to maybe this becomes 

275
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:40,480
too nerdy, but you know, there, 
there is, there are some fine 

276
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:46,480
balances in, in terms of tempo 
and rhythm and tension, how you 

277
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,480
build up things because it's a 
song that it is really slowly 

278
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:56,640
building just step by step and 
and for me that was always 

279
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,360
really difficult to to do live. 
So that's a more challenging. 

280
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:07,840
Why is that difficult? 
I don't know, maybe it was even 

281
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,720
difficult in in the studio to 
for me, but that's, you know, 

282
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,520
I've talked to, I've discussed 
it with other people who don't 

283
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:21,800
feel it the same way. 
So it's, it's also about my, you

284
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,880
know, I have a vet when I hunt 
the song, it's very particular 

285
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,280
how you know what I hunt. 
You know, it can be a feeling. 

286
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,520
It can be just, yeah, sometimes 
it's what you hear, but other 

287
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,760
times it's also very much about 
a feeling. 

288
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:43,440
And when, when I don't feel it's
right, then yeah. 

289
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,280
And I, I think I know the 
feeling, but so, so you say it 

290
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,000
evolved and some songs you felt 
didn't work live. 

291
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,720
Like, what do you do then? 
Like you, as you said earlier, 

292
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,040
you, you're very meticulous when
you build a set list and you 

293
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,400
built this set list and then you
have this one song refill. 

294
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,480
It doesn't work. 
Well, then I I always try to to 

295
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,240
have alternatives that that's 
the beauty of having a yeah. 

296
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,680
So you have like, but you know, 
sometimes it can help to, to 

297
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,760
move a song to a different place
as well. 

298
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:27,320
So in the beginning it's, I 
would say it's, it's also a bit 

299
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,720
about finding the footing not 
only in just how you perform a 

300
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,600
song, but where you place it. 
And and yeah, it's a trial and 

301
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,160
error. 
I also feel that. 

302
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,760
Tell me if you feel the same, 
but I I also feel that sometimes

303
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,680
it depends on the crowd that 
you're playing in front of, like

304
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:56,000
where they are. 
That because a song may not work

305
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,360
one day and then the next day 
you play perhaps even the same 

306
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,600
venue or another place just a 
few miles away and it works 

307
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,360
fine. 
Yes and yeah, one one thing is 

308
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:16,000
the crowd, but also yourself, 
you know and and yeah, like like

309
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,840
the mentioned for mentioned him 
and not a song, you know. 

310
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,360
Like I could also feel that 
when, when there were more 

311
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:32,800
Native Americans in the room, 
like on the US tour, you then 

312
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,840
then the energy of playing that 
song was much easier to get in a

313
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,400
way because it has a tonality 
that is very much closely 

314
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:50,480
related to indigenous 
tonalities, both Sami and, and 

315
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:55,600
which is of course very related 
to, to North American indigenous

316
00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:01,520
tonality as well. 
So, so yeah, I, I totally agree 

317
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:09,000
with you that it, it, there are 
many factors in in how, how this

318
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,400
all all falls into place or, or 
not. 

319
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,880
But the but the song have done 
is also a song that I feel, 

320
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,560
which is one of the that that 
was the first of of the new 

321
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,680
songs we introduced and that 
that also fell into place more 

322
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:35,680
easily. 
Well, in, in, in except for the 

323
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,160
fact that we as musicians, we 
needed to to sort of find the 

324
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,400
balance is a lot of different 
vocals going on there, you know,

325
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,920
lots of layers. 
So, so figuring out who does 

326
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,000
what, basically, yeah. 
Yeah. 

327
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:01,040
But so how, how patient are you 
with the song that you feel like

328
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,080
if you're going toward you, you 
have your set list prepared and 

329
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,440
you feel that there's one or two
songs maybe that doesn't work 

330
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,760
out. 
How many chances does that song 

331
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:18,320
get before you make any changes?
When it's a new song, I give it 

332
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,720
a while because I have 
experienced have enough 

333
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,400
experience with it that I know 
that it can be small things you 

334
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,400
tweak. 
So I'm patience. 

335
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,720
I can be patient with it, but I 
am also. 

336
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,960
Then it becomes a process where 
you work on it, you work on it, 

337
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,760
you discuss it a lot. 
You try to try to tweak it in in

338
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,400
different ways. 
You you try placement and but 

339
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,520
then yeah. 
Plus also, do you feel sometimes

340
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,040
that it takes like a few shows 
and then people are kind of 

341
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,520
trying to get into the song and 
then when you get to like a 

342
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,560
couple of weeks in, you realize 
that people now have listened, 

343
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:11,080
listened to the album more and 
know the songs more? 

344
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,680
Yeah, yeah, it's a different 
thing. 

345
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,720
You know when it, when it's, 
when it's, when it's all new and

346
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,320
fresh and it's new to people, 
then it's more like, like I said

347
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,040
before in, in terms of then you,
you have a audience that is very

348
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,400
listening. 
I don't mind that because I know

349
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,080
that's how it works. 
Then I know that when we play 

350
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,600
this song, they won't be as 
visibly engaged because they're 

351
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,920
listening in a different way. 
So I, I think that's, I think 

352
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,800
that's cool also. 
And you know, I, I, in any case,

353
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,320
I actually like that tension 
when you, when you don't know 

354
00:26:53,080 --> 00:27:01,640
exactly where the audience is. 
We the, you know, the, the, the 

355
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:08,080
first, the first year we did 
shows, we, we had like half the 

356
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:15,920
concert, all the songs sort of, 
they were, they were faded into 

357
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,720
each other. 
So it was more or less 

358
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:23,120
continuous and, and you could 
feel that people were really, 

359
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,440
they didn't want to applaud 
basically. 

360
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,000
So we, we had, we did shows 
where, where or most are shows, 

361
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,080
there wasn't any applause until 
like halfway in the show. 

362
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,320
That's when you could could 
sense the room. 

363
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,360
Like for real. 
But how was that for you as an 

364
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:44,960
artist then? 
It was demanding anyway, but 

365
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,000
like I said, I, I kind of like 
that tension because that's what

366
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,120
it is kind of like a classical 
concert as well, where you, you 

367
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,400
don't want to break the, the 
atmosphere and you're not sure 

368
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,000
if you're going to, you're 
allowed to clap or not. 

369
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,280
And that feeling I, I, it's 
uncomfortable, but I don't know,

370
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,720
friction is there, There is 
some, I don't know. 

371
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,960
It's, there is some power 
because that also pushes you to,

372
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,800
to be present in a, in a 
different way in the song. 

373
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,200
It pushes you to to battle your 
own insecurities and and just be

374
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,520
present and and give voice to 
the song. 

375
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,200
I totally get. 
That yeah, yeah. 

376
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,760
So once we even did a concert 
where there were no applause 

377
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,160
until we were done in Bergen, 
that was. 

378
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,840
That was magical. 
Yeah, but you know, Norwegians. 

379
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:44,320
Yeah. 
So how long was the tour like, 

380
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Like how how would you summarize
the tour in terms of experiences

381
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,800
and feelings? 
I mean, yeah. 

382
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:57,680
Well, the tour itself was, I 
feel it was, you know, I've been

383
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,680
away more than I've been home 
the the last 1 1/2 year did. 

384
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,440
You do a lot of back-to-back 
touring. 

385
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,480
Well, that's the thing, I, I 
feel it was pretty well balanced

386
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,960
in, in terms of, you know, you, 
you do a bulk and then you're 

387
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,640
home and then you go back. 
So it's been a, it's been 

388
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:23,520
balanced pretty well. 
And but it, you know, and, and I

389
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,760
travel with beautiful people 
that I really enjoy spending 

390
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,960
time with. 
You know, it's, it's like the, 

391
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:36,800
the extended family and I also 
travelled with my son who is our

392
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:42,240
backline technician has been for
like 334 years now. 

393
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:48,200
So having part of my, my inner 
circle there as well is a bonus 

394
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:54,400
of course. 
But so, so it's, I would say 

395
00:29:54,400 --> 00:30:02,160
it's been both. 
It is demanding you, you, it is 

396
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:08,000
demanding the tour life and it 
it is sometimes it's hard to be 

397
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,360
away from from your family. 
Sometimes it's hard for the 

398
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:19,720
family that you're away also. 
So it's, it's, I don't know, 

399
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,680
it's a, it's a mix of, of 
wonderful moments and 

400
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,160
challenges. 
And, and so the nature of, of 

401
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,160
doing a world world tour, which 
I'm sure you know a lot about 

402
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,440
yourself that it, that it is 
both beautiful and, and hard. 

403
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:45,160
And yeah, it, it has its 
challenges for sure, But but 

404
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:55,600
we've been blessed with, with so
many incredible life changing in

405
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,920
a way, opportunities and events.
We've been a part of this, this 

406
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,160
period. 
So yeah. 

407
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,960
So yeah, I'm I'm filled with 
gratitude as well. 

408
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,840
You said your your son is your 
backline technician and he's 

409
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,240
goes with you on tour. 
Does does the rest of the family

410
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,800
ever come out and tour with you 
as well? 

411
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,880
Well, for logistical reasons, 
that's more challenging when you

412
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,000
have, because my, my daughter is
still in, in, in, in high 

413
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,680
school. 
So they're more tied to, to, to 

414
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,640
the home. 
So, but of course they, they 

415
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:40,080
come out when, when we're, when 
it's logistically possible. 

416
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,400
But yeah, hopefully in the in in
the future, that will be easier 

417
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,680
as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

418
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,160
But so going back to like 
experiences and feelings that 

419
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,960
you carry with you from, from 
this tour, like is there any 

420
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,600
specific things that you that 
that comes to mind that that you

421
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,320
bring with you for the future or
like? 

422
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,960
Yeah, many things, you know, 
both, both, both. 

423
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,080
I don't know many things. 
I remember we, we talked a bit 

424
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:23,760
about New Zealand the last time 
I was here that, that you know 

425
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:30,160
what, what that cultural meeting
that I experienced 25 years ago 

426
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,240
or when, when I visited New 
Zealand for for a while and 

427
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,240
travelled there and that how 
much part that actually played 

428
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:50,240
in, in me doing this with that. 
It's sort of, yeah, gave me 

429
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,480
game. 
It's sort of made clear what 

430
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,360
what, what I was missing in my 
own relation to my culture and 

431
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,400
and history and the the nature 
around me. 

432
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,280
So it's in a way it gave me 
direction. 

433
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,040
It it, it gave a sort of a word 
to what it is. 

434
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:16,840
I was hunting in a sense. 
So going back to, to, to news 

435
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,720
New Zealand 25 years after to, 
to sort of complete that cycle, 

436
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:31,720
to bring my songs there. 
That that was a really special 

437
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,840
thing for me on a personal 
level, especially. 

438
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,160
And, and, and of course, you 
know that our involvement in, 

439
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:49,080
in, in, in the Fire in the 
mountains festival at the, at 

440
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,520
the Blackfoot Blackfoot 
Reservation in Montana, that 

441
00:33:53,640 --> 00:34:04,920
that is also something that made
a deep yeah, yeah, yeah, made a 

442
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,400
deep impact on on me to to be 
there the way we were welcomed. 

443
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:17,639
The, the feeling of, of 
contributing to the to, yeah, 

444
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:26,600
to, to be a constructive part 
of, of, of helping and giving 

445
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:36,639
voice to something together with
them that that was, that was a 

446
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:40,360
really humbling thing to be part
of. 

447
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:46,440
And yeah, also it, it was moving
to see how, how the, the 

448
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,840
Valdruna community gathered. 
Because we, we, we had this 

449
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,560
collaboration with something 
called the Firekeeper Alliance, 

450
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,600
which is part of that festival, 
which is a nonprofit 

451
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:07,560
organization working with kids 
because of their horribly high 

452
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,800
suicide rates amongst young 
people, especially there. 

453
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,600
So we, we collaborated with, 
with the school kids in, in 

454
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,160
designing a, a Wadruna shirt 
that we first sold. 

455
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,680
It was to be sold at the 
festival. 

456
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:31,600
But then a lot of people, people
in the Wadruna community wanted 

457
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,680
us to put it online because they
also wanted to support and yeah.

458
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,800
And, and we did. 
And we, we collected almost 

459
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,440
$15,000 for. 
So yeah. 

460
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,480
That's. 
It's fantastic. 

461
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,280
It was very, very moving to see 
how many people got engaged in 

462
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,880
made me proud to be part of. 
Yeah, I can imagine. 

463
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:01,280
How long did you stay at the at 
the Yeah. 

464
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:08,440
In Montana we what was it? 
I think I spent about a week 

465
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,680
there. 
I got to I ride horses. 

466
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:17,960
So I got to, to experience the 
beautiful Montana nature from, 

467
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:25,680
from, from the horseback. 
And yeah, we were part of Powell

468
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,560
welcoming ceremony. 
And yeah, got to got to do some 

469
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:36,320
beautiful nature walks with, 
with the locals and yeah, it was

470
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,320
beautiful. 
I know that's very important for

471
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,720
you. 
So was this like planned for the

472
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:45,480
tour that that you do this as a 
like a wind down thing or? 

473
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,680
Yeah, in a, in a way it was, it 
was planned that when we go 

474
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,800
there because also because it's 
a it is a, it was sort of a 

475
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,440
separate thing for separate from
the tour. 

476
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,760
So which was a good thing 
because then it allowed us to 

477
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:10,360
to, to have a few few days extra
there to, to actually be present

478
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,400
during the whole festival. 
And, and of course, it's also a 

479
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,520
festival that is it's yeah, 
you're not allowed to drink 

480
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,680
alcohol there because of the 
reservation that the, the, the 

481
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,840
loss there, which I have to say 
it's the best festival I have 

482
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,600
ever been on. 
Oh, really for that reason, you 

483
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,680
know, there were no, it was kind
of a leave no trace. 

484
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,320
This was on their sacred ground.
We we were allowed to have this 

485
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,480
festival. 
So, so coming there and 

486
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,680
respecting the rules and laws 
and and also to leave no trace. 

487
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,400
There were no litter any of the 
days. 

488
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,440
Everyone contributed. 
But also for us musicians, you 

489
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:04,120
know, when there isn't alcohol 
involved, you can you can enjoy 

490
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:12,960
the festival like everyone else.
And that, that was, yeah, it was

491
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,320
a long time since since I've 
been able to to actually go see 

492
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,600
shows, you know, and and. 
Always wind up standing on stage

493
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,480
watching. 
Yeah, if you're going to watch 

494
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,720
someone. 
Yeah, exactly. 

495
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:29,440
So yeah, I actually, yeah, I 
hope more, more festivals do it 

496
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,360
to be honest, because also I 
think you will enjoy and 

497
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,520
remember more of. 
Definitely. 

498
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:40,840
More of the show shows you see, 
don't be scared of it. 

499
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,000
Yeah, yeah, I hear you. 
So talking about a bit about the

500
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:51,240
album, what was the first spark 
behind Berna? 

501
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,680
I don't know. 
It wasn't like one thing. 

502
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:08,640
I think it was something that 
gradually grew and yeah, it, I 

503
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:13,080
don't know. 
It's, it's something I, I 

504
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,960
started thinking about when I 
was doing the album before 

505
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,800
actually, because then also I 
was, I was very much in the 

506
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:28,840
animal world and, and, and yeah,
I don't know, at some point in 

507
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,760
that process, I, I just, I 
didn't have a clear idea what I 

508
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,840
wanted to say. 
But, but I, I knew that the next

509
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,040
album I wanted to, to, to give 
voice to the bear. 

510
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,840
That's, that was sort of the I 
and then I just put it aside 

511
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:55,720
and, and that's, you know, that 
I think that's what I spent most

512
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:02,760
time on this album was actually 
finding out because I, I knew so

513
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,160
strongly that this is what I 
want to do. 

514
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,800
But I, I, I didn't know what I, 
how I wanted to say, what I 

515
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,280
wanted to say. 
And I, it was a long process of 

516
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,040
I do a lot of research into 
everything I work on, you know, 

517
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,240
also from the academic point of 
view and, and I studied a lot 

518
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:29,280
of. 
About them, the history of of 

519
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:35,800
the the man bear, the human and 
and bear relation throughout 

520
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,720
time, not only here in the 
North, but wherever there are 

521
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:45,520
bears basically. 
And and of course, our our in 

522
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,240
later history and the the sagas,
etcetera. 

523
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:56,240
And in in folklore and it's such
AI don't know. 

524
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,520
The the more I read, the more 
the more confused I got because 

525
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:06,760
it's such a web and and tangle 
of different traditions in 

526
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:13,360
different times. 
And of course, in, in certain 

527
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,120
periods that becomes that 
relation between man and bear is

528
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,600
in, in has also been pretty 
problematic. 

529
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,960
So I, I don't know, the more I, 
I studied, the more I realized 

530
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,840
that this album would be that I,
I sort of left the human aspect 

531
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,320
of it more out of it. 
And, and the historical aspect. 

532
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,360
I, I put it aside because the 
bear doesn't need it to be its 

533
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,000
own magnificent self. 
And I, I, you know, the thing 

534
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:56,800
with bears is that wherever they
are, they influenced the, the, 

535
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,080
the humans fair in so many 
different ways. 

536
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,320
They are so present in our 
folklore, in our mythical 

537
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:11,280
content, in, in our stories, in 
our burial ceremonies, in our 

538
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,440
warrior ceremonies, in our 
hunting ceremonies. 

539
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,920
So I, I'd rather go into to, to 
see, you know, dive into what 

540
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,560
it, what it is about the bear 
that created all of these. 

541
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:34,120
Why, why was it that before we 
had, you know, written stories, 

542
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,400
we, we placed them in the stars,
you know, wherever they are, 

543
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,640
that you have the, the, the star
images of, of the bears that the

544
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:50,400
ever present. 
So, yeah, so, so and, and of 

545
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,080
course, part, part of why, why 
they are so central is because 

546
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,840
they are, they are so profoundly
cyclical. 

547
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,360
They, they sort of mimic the, 
the movements of, of the year so

548
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:08,920
perfectly with their, with their
winter sleep, you know. 

549
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:15,440
Yeah, they, they, they, yeah, 
they, they mirror Mother Earth 

550
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:21,000
so, so poetically. 
These movements of, of going 

551
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:27,960
back to the womb in a sense, and
then the rebirth and, and which 

552
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,760
are present in many different 
movements in nature. 

553
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:38,000
You know, the salmon swims 
upstream to the place it it was 

554
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,040
born to spawn and die. 
It's so poetic. 

555
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,080
And yeah, that's the story I 
wanted to tell. 

556
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,920
I, I just, I wanted to sort of 
strip away the human aspect of 

557
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,960
it because yeah, we're kind of 
the problem. 

558
00:43:56,720 --> 00:44:02,400
So, so did you go mostly for the
animal perspective or was it 

559
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,640
like a symbolic the symbolism or
like something more personal? 

560
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:14,240
Well, it's both because I, I 
think the bear teaches us that 

561
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:20,880
we, we humans are also cyclic, 
even though our society, the way

562
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:27,600
we live is sort of demands us 
not to be. 

563
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,600
It demands the same tempo. 
We eat the same food all year 

564
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,400
round every day. 
And when when that doesn't work,

565
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,240
you know, we we just have to 
push through. 

566
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:45,360
And I don't think that's a, you 
know, that's contrary to what 

567
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,680
every other being on this planet
does. 

568
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:54,080
Yeah. 
So I think it teaches us it's a,

569
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,960
it's a beautiful reminder of 
just that. 

570
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,440
So when I'm singing about the 
bear or we are singing about the

571
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:08,600
bear in, in this album, there is
always a layer of, of, of, of us

572
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,680
joining the bear on this 
journey. 

573
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,640
That's, that's what I, what I 
sing in, in, in Berna as well, 

574
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:23,360
you know, can I, can I borrow 
your hide just for one day and 

575
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:31,520
carry your weight in in a sense.
So at at any point you can ask 

576
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,480
the question if I'm singing 
about the human or, or is it a 

577
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,080
bear or is it nature, mother 
Earth? 

578
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,520
And and that's also why I wanted
why I called it Birna, which is 

579
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,240
the female, the she bear. 
Because I I feel then you, you 

580
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,400
more clearly see the connection 
the, the to the to mother Earth 

581
00:45:52,520 --> 00:46:03,360
and to that whole cyclical, 
yeah, death, rebirth, life, 

582
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,200
yeah, the whole, whole circle. 
I, I feel, felt I could tell 

583
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:14,040
that story much much more 
clearly with a female aspect. 

584
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,560
Yeah, so, but you said that the 
bear obviously means a lot of 

585
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,080
things in different cultures and
you more than to strip away the 

586
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,160
human aspect of the bear. 
Yeah, in the sense of what you 

587
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:33,880
know, you know, for us, it's 
meant a lot of different things 

588
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,760
in different times. 
And to sort of single out one 

589
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:49,200
thing was, was challenging in a 
way because because of, of, you 

590
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,080
know, for me, history is 
something I, I would, I, I think

591
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,120
we have the potential of doing 
better now than before. 

592
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,160
So if I was to, to like cherry 
pick certain things from that 

593
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,000
history and make an album about 
that. 

594
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,040
I, when I know the whole 
history, which is so fucking 

595
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:18,080
problematic up until this day, I
don't know it, it didn't 

596
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,040
resonate in me. 
So that's what I mean. 

597
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:28,920
I, I, I would rather, you know, 
give voice to what it is about 

598
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,880
the bear that impacts us humans 
so much throughout the ages. 

599
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:42,720
Why we wanted to be buried in 
bearskin, why we wanted to 

600
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:46,840
borrow the bears hide when going
into battle, when why we place 

601
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,200
them in the sky to to watch 
over. 

602
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,640
Yeah, all of those things. 
So that's what I mean with 

603
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:56,880
removing because the bear 
doesn't need us. 

604
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,800
The bear doesn't borrow strength
from us in a in a sense to be 

605
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,440
its own perfect self. 
It is the other way around. 

606
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:14,080
And I think we need to. 
They can be great teachers to 

607
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:22,000
us. 
What was your, I mean, how did 

608
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,520
the, the bears meaning change 
for you personally in this 

609
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,720
process? 
Because he said going in to it, 

610
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:31,840
you had a feeling that you 
wanted to give the bear a voice.

611
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,680
But I, I gather from what you're
saying that it was a process to,

612
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,200
to getting to know the bear both
both mythologically and like 

613
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,720
biologically, but also on a very
personal level. 

614
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:51,360
Yeah, it, it becomes of course, 
because, you know, it's, I try 

615
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,800
to internalize everything I, I 
work with. 

616
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,040
It has to come from a place that
is real. 

617
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:03,000
And you know, going into a lot 
of these, these older stories, 

618
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:10,200
these older traditions, they, 
they didn't kind of many of them

619
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:16,560
were interesting. 
Most of them were sad and at the

620
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:23,560
same time the interesting ones, 
they didn't really resonate with

621
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,800
me today. 
You know, how can I use this 

622
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:32,240
today? 
Where is and, and how, what does

623
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:41,360
it say about the bear actually? 
So it gave me more to, to read 

624
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,320
about the bear itself, you know,
to go into the scientific world 

625
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:53,520
to so, so I, I would say I am, 
you know, when we create, it's 

626
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,840
always with Valdor and I, the 
creative concept is always about

627
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,480
trying to interpret something on
its own premises. 

628
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:08,280
So realising that when a bear 
goes into hibernation, it 

629
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,680
doesn't really go into 
hibernation per definition. 

630
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:19,080
It goes into this semi, yes, 
semi hibernative state where it 

631
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:24,080
lowers its heart rate to around 
910 beats per minute. 

632
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,720
Now that's useful. 
Then I then I then I know what 

633
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:34,160
tempo I have in in, you know, 
then I know the pulse that I am.

634
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:39,800
I am to use when I give voice to
the to the hibernation on on in 

635
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:48,240
my story. 
So I chose 9 of course, and a 

636
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,960
lot of these things, you know, 
going going into the music 

637
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:57,760
history as well. 
I wanted to, I use always use 

638
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:04,640
different lyre instruments. 
But on this album I I've 

639
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:11,480
travelled more E to to Finland, 
to Estonia, Russia or Dev bear 

640
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,240
country. 
Yeah, bear country where where 

641
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:17,920
you of course have the cantile 
or Gushley or or countless. 

642
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:24,560
It has different names, which 
also I don't know it, it has 

643
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:33,200
this dream like clear metallic 
sound to it as well that that I 

644
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:38,400
felt was a really get a really 
beautiful contrast in, in, in 

645
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:48,920
the soundscape. 
So that of course, was a was an 

646
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,960
important part too, or decisive 
factor. 

647
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:59,640
That's what I mean in, in and of
course the goat's horn because 

648
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:04,360
of this simple, almost like 
Kitty rhyme where where it said 

649
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,920
that the bear hates the sound of
the, the long horse, the Louvre,

650
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:13,440
but he loves the sound of the 
goat horn that you can actually 

651
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,840
call the bear with the goat's 
horn. 

652
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:23,000
So, so of course, that was an 
instrument we, we chose to, to 

653
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,520
use quite a bit on, on, on 
certain parts when it made 

654
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,840
conceptually sense. 
So I don't know, try I, I try 

655
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:40,320
to, to, to do different angles, 
both academically in terms of 

656
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,720
the thematics. 
So in this case, it was both the

657
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:49,520
historical aspect, which is of 
course present, but it's not the

658
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:55,440
dominating factor. 
There are, of course, these 

659
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:01,840
hints back to our historical 
yeah, using their, their skins 

660
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,040
and, and, you know, becoming 
them in, in a sense that's 

661
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:11,160
something we've always, we've 
always felt a kinship to them or

662
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,640
not always, but at A, at A, at a
certain point in our traditions,

663
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,400
we did. 
So that part I definitely wanted

664
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,320
to, to have present in the 
album. 

665
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,680
So the academic part, both in 
terms of the themes, but also 

666
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,600
the the music, of course, the 
the being a bear themed album 

667
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:37,760
that that is then that's part of
what decides what instruments we

668
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,280
use. 
And, and can be rhythms can be, 

669
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,080
yeah, whatever. 
And then there's scientifical 

670
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,040
things with about bears. 
So I've I've read a lot about 

671
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,360
bears. 
I can tell that's amazing. 

672
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,360
It's, it's, it's, it's amazing 
to see how deep you can go into 

673
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,760
a subject to just just to create
this concept. 

674
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:12,200
But so is is there a track on 
Beer Now that feels like like an

675
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,640
emotional center of the album, 
would you say? 

676
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:27,960
Oh, I don't know. 
It, it's, I, I feel in a, in a 

677
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:35,680
way, perhaps the, in one way the
song, the, the opening song has 

678
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:42,680
sort of, because the opening 
song is almost like it tells the

679
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:48,920
story of the whole album between
a heartbeat, between breathing 

680
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,000
in and breathing out. 
That's sort of the, the idea in 

681
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,400
a, in a, in a weird way, the 
sort of death and rebirth. 

682
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:05,360
You become all of these cycles 
that happens in, in nature and, 

683
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,840
and on the album, of course, you
become them. 

684
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,960
So it's sort of an introduction 
to to the story or you're being 

685
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:18,800
brought into perhaps also the 
the the title track been has 

686
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:24,080
this, you know, there there is 
this the song is in a in a way, 

687
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,240
just a dialogue between man and 
bear, which is written in a 

688
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:36,800
normal, like a more more falky 
way than I normally write my 

689
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:37,920
poetry. 
In a sense. 

690
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,800
It's more light hearted, but 
underneath it, this is a very 

691
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,320
like it's very heavy. 
You know, the music is very 

692
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,880
heavy. 
So I like that contrast between 

693
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:54,560
the the lighthearted lyrics, but
but but the heavy musical 

694
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,080
feeling of it. 
And and I guess also he min 

695
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:06,720
Dota, which is sort of a a plea 
in a sense that ends on a on on 

696
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:13,240
on quite a quite some direct 
messages to to to to to our 

697
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:18,160
times. 
And yeah, and and some might 

698
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:24,720
think that because the first 
part of the album is is very 

699
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,600
clearly about the bear. 
But then you have three more 

700
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,440
songs that sort of are on the 
outside of that. 

701
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:38,000
And how does that work? 
But they, they do have a place 

702
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:44,560
and and they are there for a 
reason where because it's, it's 

703
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,400
more about going into the 
premise of understanding the 

704
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:53,440
value of, of bears. 
And like Lithia back is the 

705
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:59,080
healing mountain. 
It's a song about cost and value

706
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,920
that anything of any true value 
here in life comes at a cost. 

707
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,040
That's how life works. 
You know, you can't walk up a 

708
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,440
hill without going uphill. 
That's impossible. 

709
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,040
Yeah. 
You can't climb a mountain 

710
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:22,520
without going up uphill. 
And if you don't understand the 

711
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:28,480
value of preserving nature 
intact, then you won't accept 

712
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:33,640
the cost. 
And, and the other parts are 

713
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,280
more about how nature speaks 
through you, how you can listen,

714
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:43,800
how you can connect to your 
surroundings in a in a sense so 

715
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,840
that they're there for a reason,
even though seemingly they might

716
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,320
seem a bit on the side, but. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

717
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,680
Would you say that that goes 
into the underlying theme then 

718
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:57,240
of man and nature in a in a way 
that you talked about earlier? 

719
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,800
Yeah, or nature and man. 
Nature and man Yeah, yeah. 

720
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,200
Is, is there. 
I mean, obviously. 

721
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,320
Well, from what you're saying, 
it seems to me that this is the 

722
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,080
like the theme of the whole 
album in a way. 

723
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:15,280
The underlying theme at least. 
Would you what? 

724
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:20,720
What was it that drew you to 
this like specific topic in in 

725
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,320
the 1st place? 
Was there any specific reason 

726
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,840
why this became important at 
this time? 

727
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:35,080
Well, in, in terms of this 
album, you know, for, for in a 

728
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,680
way, looking back, I, I feel 
like it was the bear who came to

729
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,560
me in a sense. 
And I didn't because that 

730
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,640
feeling of just, I know I need 
to make an album around. 

731
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,120
This. 
Yeah, because I got it. 

732
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,520
I I sort of really knew that I 
wanted, but I had no clue how 

733
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,000
and what I was going to say. 
So I just put it to the side and

734
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,080
and that the whole long journey 
and actually finding in its 

735
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,000
voice. 
So that's what it kind of feels 

736
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:13,240
like that it came to me in a 
sense that I had to find it 

737
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:18,560
again. 
But I don't know. 

738
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:27,760
For me, our music in many ways 
has always been about that been 

739
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:35,800
about our relation to nature and
to nature itself, described in 

740
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:45,640
using the images of the runes on
the 1st 3 albums, which, yeah, 

741
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,360
so maybe, but maybe it has been 
more in the background, you 

742
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:55,360
know, more in the overarching 
themes of, of each individual 

743
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,520
song or or theme. 
Whereas now it's in, it's the, 

744
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:06,280
it's the. 
It's the main character and and 

745
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:12,040
more I speak more clearly or we 
speak more clearly about these 

746
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:15,120
things. 
So it's something that just 

747
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:20,080
evolved, I think and and be 
crystallized and and of course 

748
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,920
you, you, I'm not the same 
person as I was yeah, when when 

749
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,960
I started this. 
So of course the music has to 

750
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:34,400
evolve as well evolve and, and 
it has to, you know, it has to 

751
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,440
come from a real place, you 
know, a desire to, to say 

752
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,720
something. 
And I, I feel that, you know, 

753
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:51,760
what's happening around us and 
how, how our, how, how our place

754
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:59,200
as humans in nature sort of is 
developing these days. 

755
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:07,120
That also demand pushes the, the
need to say something or to, to 

756
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:12,520
give voice to something that, 
and, and for me, that's, I like,

757
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:17,880
I like doing it. 
I don't like doing it in a way 

758
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,120
where you say what people 
shouldn't do. 

759
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,600
Yeah, I'd rather just give voice
to, to something beautiful, 

760
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,760
something worth preserving 
something, something worth 

761
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,920
remembering or, or, or 
experiencing that you're a part 

762
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,440
of or I don't know. 
I, I feel that's more construct,

763
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,520
constructive in in a way than 
than yelling at people what they

764
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,400
should and should not do. 
Yeah, I don't like preaching and

765
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,400
I don't like to be told what to 
do either. 

766
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:56,600
So I, I learned by being 
inspired by feeling, you know, 

767
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,160
we people, we think that we 
experience life through our 

768
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:03,840
brain, but we don't, we 
experience life through, through

769
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:08,560
our emotions. 
And so so if you really want to 

770
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,880
make change, then you need to 
speak to people's emotions. 

771
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,000
And you can tell because when 
you walk into nature, that's 

772
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,600
when you're going to feel your 
true emotions about things. 

773
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,280
Absolutely. 
The more time you spend there 

774
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:28,440
and the more you understand that
you are, that it's part of you, 

775
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:35,040
that there is, you know, cutting
flat, flat, an old forest. 

776
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,560
You're not cutting your, your 
forest. 

777
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,000
You're, you're, it's not the 
forest you're, you're hurting. 

778
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,360
It is also you. 
That's what you start to realize

779
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:50,160
when when you the more you are 
in nature, you realize that it's

780
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:51,080
you. 
Yeah. 

781
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:57,800
So going back to this then, did 
did working on a Birka change 

782
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,520
the way you yourself relate to 
nature in any way? 

783
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,840
I like that USA Swede, said 
Birka instead of being. 

784
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:11,840
A mind fuck I was reading. 
Yeah, but it it's a. 

785
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,120
Beer now. 
Beer now, of course. 

786
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,720
Yeah, yeah, it's too close. 
Yeah, it's too close. 

787
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,000
It's. 
It makes perfect sense. 

788
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:24,400
Yeah, beer guy is Birch, but 
they are not there but beer now.

789
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:29,160
Yeah, like did working on being 
a change the way you yourself 

790
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:37,680
relate to nature? 
Yes, yeah, I, I think so. 

791
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:47,000
It's, I think all these deep 
dives into oneself into such a, 

792
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:55,040
in my opinion, important part 
of, yeah, into this important 

793
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:00,040
sort of shepherd of, of The 
Woodlands, which is what we used

794
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:05,280
to view it as. 
You know, of course, that has 

795
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:12,960
impacted me and, and I've 
learned so much about also 

796
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:17,240
myself. 
It has been a reminder of, of 

797
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:22,000
many things like like 
remembering and being more aware

798
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:29,840
of, of my own cyclical nature. 
You know, our, our, yeah, I 

799
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:33,400
think, I think we are like, like
being a creative person as well.

800
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:37,720
You know, it's like, it's like a
lung. 

801
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:43,360
You have the expansion, but, but
in order to, to have that 

802
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:48,280
expansion, you need to retract 
and, and take a breath and, and 

803
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:55,320
go back and, you know, and, and 
that's, that's an important 

804
01:04:55,320 --> 01:05:02,960
lesson also one that I, I, you 
know, and in my own work, it's, 

805
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:10,200
it's so easy to, to push the 
expansion to be all the time, 

806
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,120
because that's in a way what the
industry demands of you in 

807
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:21,720
certain time, at certain points.
So it's it can, which is why I 

808
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,640
think a lot of people burn out 
as well. 

809
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:32,120
And yeah, yeah, good. 
So remembering to to inhale. 

810
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,600
Inhale and exhale. 
Yes, important. 

811
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,800
Not only exhale. 
You also recently released a 

812
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,240
documentary called Tracking 
Beerna. 

813
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,800
Can you tell us about the 
documentary? 

814
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:55,040
Yes. 
Well, it's, I've been, we've 

815
01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:01,040
always been quite restrictive 
perhaps in terms of not, you 

816
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:06,440
know, inviting people into what 
happens behind us. 

817
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:15,160
I don't want that to sort of 
take away focus or demystify or,

818
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,440
you know, not that it's so 
mystical, but in lack of a 

819
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:25,200
better word. 
And mostly because I don't want 

820
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,520
what happens behind the stage to
to take the focus from what 

821
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:34,120
happens on the stage. 
At the same time, I feel very 

822
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:39,720
much that what happens on that 
stage is very much represented 

823
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,320
by what happens behind the 
stage. 

824
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:51,280
So it felt like the right thing 
to do to, to also open. 

825
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,000
Yeah. 
To to give a glimpse into that 

826
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,040
bubble. 
Because you know, when we go on 

827
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,160
stage, it's not like we we don't
go on stage wearing masks and 

828
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:02,800
costumes. 
We dress. 

829
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:10,400
We're not. 
Yeah, it's I don't you dress up 

830
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,200
for it, but it's not a costume. 
It's just more you, you, you 

831
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:23,440
give it a frame and and we come 
as 100% ourself, which is so 

832
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:32,720
important for me. 
And so, so in that sense, it it 

833
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,240
doesn't. 
Yeah. 

834
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,680
I don't know. 
It it felt the just the right 

835
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,920
time to to open up. 
Yeah. 

836
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:49,080
In in a glimpse into the bubble,
basically into our yeah, the the

837
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:56,320
Valdruna family in a sense to to
get a yeah. 

838
01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,400
And also, you know, it's mostly 
me giving interviews and talking

839
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:05,040
about these things. 
But but there are a lot of other

840
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,800
people involved as well with 
their own stories into this, 

841
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:12,400
their own perspectives, their 
own experience. 

842
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,000
Yeah. 
And and, and one thing is the 

843
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:19,080
band, which is the the visible 
part of what happens. 

844
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,359
But around us, none of that 
would be possible if it weren't 

845
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:32,000
for the fact that that we have 
an amazing team around us, our 

846
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:38,080
our crew, our, our management 
team and, and, and other people 

847
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:43,520
also around. 
So, so having them part of this,

848
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:54,439
yeah, I think it's a a really 
nice thing to to, to show that 

849
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:02,359
yeah, it's, it's a very genuine,
honest documentary. 

850
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:06,399
And of course, even though it's 
not in the documentary, it's, 

851
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:11,600
it's worth mentioning also that 
what a lot of people don't 

852
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:20,000
realise it's it's also in in, in
this where you have all the 

853
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,880
people around the band, the 
families who are home of. 

854
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:24,680
Course. 
Yeah, yeah. 

855
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,399
It's easy to to to forget, but 
it's such a, you know, I, I 

856
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:33,720
could not do this without that 
that support. 

857
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:38,720
It literally takes a village. 
Yeah, yeah, definitely so. 

858
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:44,439
And, and yeah, telling that 
story too is, is a really nice 

859
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:49,080
thing. 
And, and we, we have, we had, so

860
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:55,440
it's, it's made by, by one of 
the people working with our PR 

861
01:09:55,600 --> 01:10:05,960
person, Letitia Avanes and and 
also a photographer who who have

862
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:07,800
been traveling with us quite a 
bit. 

863
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,280
How long? 
Well, at least for for I think 

864
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:17,840
the first time he worked with us
was it at the start of this 

865
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:22,280
tour. 
So a year and a half it was part

866
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:27,960
of of this tour for quite or 
maybe he was even there on on 

867
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,280
the pre the tour before 
actually. 

868
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,880
Yeah, I can't remember that. 
But in in any case, it's it's 

869
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,800
made by people who were already 
part of the circle in a way. 

870
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:43,720
So it's it's it's people. 
It's not like external people 

871
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:47,840
who have come to to tell our 
story. 

872
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,680
It's us telling our story in in 
a way. 

873
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:55,440
And it's it's done with people. 
We are relaxed around the the 

874
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:59,040
interviews doesn't feel like 
interviews in the sense we're 

875
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:01,200
just talking with two people we 
know. 

876
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,720
And there happened. 
Yeah, of course there is a 

877
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:09,320
camera there, but which. 
But yeah, it so it, I don't 

878
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,880
know. 
All of these things made it. 

879
01:11:16,480 --> 01:11:20,600
Yeah. 
Made it feel like the the right.

880
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:25,640
Yeah. 
Made me want to loosen the grip 

881
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,640
a little bit. 
But how was it like letting 

882
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:35,320
people you say that it's like 
people who are basically part of

883
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:40,480
the family in in in a way, but 
still you're letting people so 

884
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:47,640
close into a world that is 
arguably very, very personal 

885
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:54,920
with very personal moments. 
How how does that feel like? 

886
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:56,880
Did you ever get worried about 
that? 

887
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:06,920
No, I, you know, I, to be 
honest, I, I, I'm, I, I, I try 

888
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:15,480
to separate my personal life a 
lot to, to my professional life.

889
01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:21,360
I'm, I rarely, you know, even 
though people know I'm a family 

890
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:22,000
man. 
Yeah. 

891
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:28,200
And, but it's not something I I 
talk a lot about and and. 

892
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:30,840
But I mean, there must be 
personal moments on tour as 

893
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,520
well. 
Yeah, that's what I mean. 

894
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:38,600
That, that, that those lines, I,
I, I don't want them to steal 

895
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:46,840
focus from, from at the same 
time it's, it's we are human 

896
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:51,280
beings also on that stage and we
are ourselves on that stage as 

897
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,360
well. 
So it's, that's what I mean, 

898
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:59,400
that perhaps I've been too 
strict about it in a in a sense,

899
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,200
but at the same time it's a 
balance. 

900
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,640
And that was of course a 
discussion along the way as 

901
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:08,160
well. 
Yeah. 

902
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:14,080
And yeah. 
As you say, a tour is, is many 

903
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:19,160
different things. 
Also, it's challenging. 

904
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:26,960
I, you know, I, I, I find I find
it very exhausting in the sense 

905
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:33,880
I don't know, I, I can't half 
ass it, you know, So, so it's 

906
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,720
every time it's the the same 
intensity. 

907
01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:47,240
It's yeah, pouring your, your 
heart out and, and that's and 

908
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:57,120
that that makes you or it makes 
me very sensitive and tired in 

909
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:04,240
yeah, it, it demands me to, to, 
to rest a lot in between. 

910
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:08,000
So of course. 
And then of course life can 

911
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:16,680
happen and it did in a sense 
also, not that I, we need to 

912
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,720
give that a lot of focus, but 
yeah, it's, it's part of the 

913
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:26,120
documentary as well. 
Because I, I, yeah, when mid, 

914
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:32,080
mid, mid tour on on the last 
leg, I, I lost my father. 

915
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,040
I didn't hear that. 
Yeah, Thank you. 

916
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,800
Yeah. 
So, so life happens also when 

917
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,520
you're on tour and. 
And that was of course it's 

918
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:58,320
challenging and yeah, but, but 
also, yeah, it, it, it, it, it 

919
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:04,040
was also beautiful in a, in a 
way because you, you have to, 

920
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:13,240
you have to dig deep and perhaps
dig deeper, but I don't know. 

921
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,600
It, it, it, Yeah. 
Having a lot of beautiful people

922
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,320
around you doing what we do is 
also very rewarding, you know, 

923
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:26,520
and, but yeah, it was hard. 
It was hard, especially of 

924
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,160
course, to to to to sing Hail 
Wagon. 

925
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,160
I can imagine. 
The first night or every night, 

926
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:41,120
Yeah, it, it, yeah, it, it gave,
it became very real, you know. 

927
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:52,800
But at the same time, I, I, I 
sang for, for my, my, I sang for

928
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,560
my father, of course. 
But I, I did it when I wasn't on

929
01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:07,280
stage because I, I, I think 
that's, you know, it's, yeah, I 

930
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,040
even though it's personal, you 
know, it's, I didn't want it to 

931
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:15,400
be When I do that on stage, 
that's not about me. 

932
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,000
That's about something that is 
much bigger. 

933
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:23,560
So that's what I mean. 
I try to like separate but. 

934
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:25,760
I guess you kind of have to as 
well. 

935
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,160
Yeah, yeah, in a situation like 
that. 

936
01:16:28,480 --> 01:16:35,560
Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, you have to
sort of yeah, Keep, keep, keep 

937
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:41,840
focus and, and yeah, do it, make
it into something beautiful 

938
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:48,400
because it is also beautiful and
it's natural and it is, Yeah. 

939
01:16:48,400 --> 01:17:01,640
It is just such a multifaceted 
event in life that is just part 

940
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:03,120
of it. 
Yeah, I totally understand. 

941
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,400
And as I said, I'm really sorry 
to hear that. 

942
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:06,840
I know. 
I know your father meant a lot 

943
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,600
to you. 
So yeah, Yeah, Yeah. 

944
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:15,240
But were there any times then 
that you regretted starting the 

945
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:16,800
whole project with a 
documentary? 

946
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,640
No. 
No, no, it was so smooth. 

947
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,720
It was done by, like I said, 
really, really people all that 

948
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:30,200
and it was very well organised. 
They all, you know, having 

949
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:35,240
travelled with us and even going
into, you know, the logistics of

950
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:42,520
making a tour documentary. 
It demanded a lot of, a lot of 

951
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,160
planning in terms of where we 
can film what and who we can 

952
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:51,360
interview when. 
Because like, for my sake as 

953
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:55,320
well, I do very little 
interviews when I'm on tour 

954
01:17:55,320 --> 01:18:00,240
because I can't, you know, the, 
the day after a concert, the, 

955
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,600
the, the voice is like an open 
wound. 

956
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,760
And the worst thing I can do is 
talk a lot then. 

957
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:12,320
So yeah. 
So I, I think it was very well 

958
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,560
executed and, and planned by, by
good people. 

959
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:22,600
So it it felt like, yeah, it 
felt very non invasive. 

960
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:30,040
OK, which, yeah. 
So if if you ever do it, then 

961
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:33,360
then yeah. 
Then do it with people who are 

962
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:38,680
already part of that circle and,
and make a good plan. 

963
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:40,240
Yeah. 
And yeah. 

964
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,080
So where where can people watch 
this documentary? 

965
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:50,920
That's on on our the Voluna 
YouTube channel. 

966
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,480
That's where we publish it. 
Publish it recently. 

967
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,080
Yeah. 
So yeah, I hope, hope people 

968
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,800
want to to to check it out. 
Cool. 

969
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:06,640
Yeah. 
So we already talked a little 

970
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:13,640
bit about this, the importance 
of exhaling, of getting time off

971
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:22,600
to get back into it. 
So what role does silence or 

972
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,240
stillness play in your creative 
life? 

973
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:35,360
That's is very important because
music is very often something I 

974
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:43,520
hear and it howls from, from 
silence and silence in, in, in a

975
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:50,480
wider context, because silence 
is also for me about the tempo, 

976
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:56,400
you know, it's also about space 
and, and having space for it to,

977
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,680
to howl. 
You know, if it's all noise and 

978
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,440
all tempo, no, then you have to 
chase it. 

979
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:10,640
And that works for a while. 
But I think you will. 

980
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,480
I think the well will dry up if 
you do that too much. 

981
01:20:15,480 --> 01:20:20,560
So. 
So this all touring an album and

982
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:25,800
touring an album, you know, 
without having time for life, 

983
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:32,720
for family, for yeah, for 
stillness, for thinking about 

984
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:37,040
other things, for being inspired
again, you know, finding things 

985
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:41,320
you want to to say and not 
always chasing. 

986
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:46,920
I think that's important. 
But it's also challenging when 

987
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:54,280
you experience success because, 
because very often you get the, 

988
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:59,280
the, the more success you have, 
the more interesting doors are 

989
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:03,880
open for you, the more 
interesting offers you, you get.

990
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:08,680
So we're in the beginning, it 
was really important for me to 

991
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:15,880
say no because, because all the,
most of the offers that came, I 

992
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:20,360
didn't feel fit, you know, But 
along the way, it's, it's the 

993
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:23,720
other way around. 
And then it's about saying no 

994
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:30,440
because you have to claim space 
and yeah, not burnout. 

995
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,840
Yeah, it's. 
Easy to bleed the bleed the 

996
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:38,720
energy and focus. 
Yes, yeah, it is so. 

997
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:42,120
Sorry, I interrupted. 
You No, no, no, no. 

998
01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:47,040
But it's it's you're you're 
confirming exactly what I'm 

999
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:53,080
thinking. 
So, yeah, it's so for me now, 

1000
01:21:53,080 --> 01:22:01,320
this is definitely what what I 
what I need now. 

1001
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:03,600
It's been so intense for a long 
time. 

1002
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:13,920
So the need to just yeah, be 
able to to think playfully about

1003
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:21,640
also, you know, if I at what 
point we there will for sure be 

1004
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:28,880
a break from touring now and but
but just thinking, being 

1005
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:36,520
creative with that because now, 
now I, I claim space and and 

1006
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,520
time to actually think properly 
through that. 

1007
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:47,920
You know, how how I want people 
to experience Valdruna live the 

1008
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,760
next time we we do a tour. 
I yeah. 

1009
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:54,920
And, and there hasn't really 
been a time to do that properly 

1010
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:59,280
for a long, long time now to, to
actually think about those 

1011
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:03,720
things. 
So it's something I really enjoy

1012
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,440
thinking about as well. 
You know what? 

1013
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,560
Yeah. 
How to, how to be creative And, 

1014
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:10,600
and. 
Yeah. 

1015
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:15,880
So you come off tour you you go 
into stillness and silence and 

1016
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:19,360
but when do you know that it's 
time to go back into creative 

1017
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:23,600
mode and start working on on 
stuff like how does that come to

1018
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:28,080
you? 
No, I don't know. 

1019
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:32,880
It's my, my main use for, for 
creating music is very often 

1020
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:39,800
walking. 
But I but I do feel that now 

1021
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:43,360
it's been a while where I've 
I've actually had the need to 

1022
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:49,160
just like not think about things
that I've been so obsessively 

1023
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:55,320
thinking about for, for a long, 
long time, which is really nice 

1024
01:23:55,320 --> 01:24:00,360
actually. 
To, to, to, but also a bit 

1025
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,320
scary. 
I have to, you know, because the

1026
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:10,440
yeah, the the nightmare would be
to to not be inspired to do 

1027
01:24:10,440 --> 01:24:14,960
anything again. 
But I can feel that now that 

1028
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,520
I'm, I'm a bit out of tour mode 
again. 

1029
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:24,040
I can feel that the, the sort of
the inch yeah, yeah, like the 

1030
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:33,600
curiosity, you know, the yeah. 
And and words and and phrases 

1031
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:40,160
and poetry starting to come. 
But I'm, yeah, but I'm, I'm not 

1032
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,240
going to start chasing anything 
yet. 

1033
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:45,520
Yeah. 
So I hopefully I'm, I'm in a 

1034
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:51,680
place now where I'm, I'm just 
going to let things roll in its 

1035
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:56,960
own tempo for a while. 
And then, yeah. 

1036
01:24:57,360 --> 01:25:01,560
And then when, when it feels 
right, then we go into hunter 

1037
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:05,880
mode again. 
So do you see your work as a as 

1038
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:10,760
a spiritual like practice or 
like a spiritual work, even if 

1039
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:15,920
like even for people who are not
don't identify as religious, I 

1040
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:20,320
mean, going back to. 
Yeah, in a, in a way, I I think 

1041
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:25,160
spirituality can be something. 
I don't necessarily see that as 

1042
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:33,960
a religious thing, you know, 
and, and in that sense, my, my 

1043
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:38,600
relation to, to, to my work is, 
is deeply spiritual. 

1044
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:47,240
It is deeply philosophical. 
And yeah, so that, that's 

1045
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:55,880
definitely part of it. 
It's, but I, I try to, you know,

1046
01:25:56,240 --> 01:26:01,120
in, in the music also, there is 
a line where I, I separate what 

1047
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:09,320
is my own and, and what is, you 
know, I think it's I, I, I try 

1048
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:16,760
to find perspective and angles 
that where, where it becomes 

1049
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:21,920
relevant, whether or not you, 
you, you have a, you know, a 

1050
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:27,840
spiritual or a philosophical or 
even a religious or just a 

1051
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:36,080
musical way in to it. 
It, it, it if it makes sense in 

1052
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:37,880
any way, if you know what I 
mean. 

1053
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:46,040
I try yeah, I like to. 
But in any, in any case, it's 

1054
01:26:48,440 --> 01:26:58,720
it's nature. 
And you know, this, this 

1055
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,680
Christian theology where, where 
God is above nature. 

1056
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:10,720
That's not, that's not my cup of
tea. 

1057
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:16,000
For me, God is nature, you know,
or whatever you wish to call it 

1058
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:20,840
or however you wish to, to, to 
view it. 

1059
01:27:21,440 --> 01:27:27,000
In any case, how if, if it's 
whatever you call the invisible 

1060
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:33,600
parts of it, the world is 
relational and we're part of 

1061
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,160
that. 
Would you call it call yourself 

1062
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,040
like an animist? 
Like is that the view you? 

1063
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,240
Take on this. 
Yeah, but in a way it's in lack 

1064
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:48,960
of a better word because because
that is a phrase that is, it has

1065
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:50,680
like a colour. 
It does. 

1066
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:58,120
And especially the the old 
school definition of it has very

1067
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:02,360
much a colour. 
But even using it now, it it's 

1068
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:06,200
it's yeah. 
So yeah, in in lack of a better 

1069
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:11,480
world, I I deeply believe that 
the world is a place where 

1070
01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:17,080
relations happen. 
And I don't exclude animals and 

1071
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:19,600
plants into that equation. 
Yeah. 

1072
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:24,640
You know, we all affect each 
other and we're all equally 

1073
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:30,680
important, so. 
And nature is sacred in my 

1074
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:34,320
personal opinion. 
And that's an attitude, yeah. 

1075
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:37,560
An attitude I, I think the world
benefits from. 

1076
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:44,200
So I, I can say that without, 
you know, being a, a preacher of

1077
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:48,560
any, any dogmas. 
That's just, you know. 

1078
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:52,920
Yeah, Yeah, I, I think I 
understand exactly what you 

1079
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,720
mean. 
So, so when you say nature is 

1080
01:28:55,720 --> 01:29:00,480
sacred, obviously we talked 
about this today and also in our

1081
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:06,200
previous podcast. 
But nature is very important for

1082
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:10,320
you, as you say and, and and 
recording in in natural 

1083
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:16,400
environments is essential I 
guess to Vardruna. 

1084
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:24,720
So how how does place influence 
the creative process like like 

1085
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,560
location place? 
Place and space. 

1086
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,720
Yeah, it is important. 
And, and when I say sacred in, 

1087
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:34,400
in a way it would be better to 
use the, the, the Nordic word 

1088
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:40,440
for it, which is high log or 
high, which means whole. 

1089
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:46,760
Yeah, complete. 
And that's kind of the, the 

1090
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:50,280
sense that I'm using the word. 
So when I'm, when I'm saying 

1091
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:53,040
sacred, I mean it's whole, it's 
holy. 

1092
01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:04,960
But yeah, yeah, like like I said
it, it is the theme that sort of

1093
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:10,200
defines a lot of the the meters 
and and the angles I approach 

1094
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:15,880
when I create music. 
And, and of course one thing is 

1095
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:26,840
the instruments, the words time 
of day, time of year, if I play 

1096
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:31,640
on stones, on trees or, or 
leaves or bark or fire, you 

1097
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:35,000
know, all of these things. 
But also of course place. 

1098
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:45,000
So if, if I don't, can go to a 
place and record, Yeah, if I 

1099
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:49,520
can, if I can record in a place 
that for whatever reason makes 

1100
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,440
sense to the theme I'm working 
with, of course I will do that. 

1101
01:30:54,360 --> 01:31:02,080
Anything and everything to to 
sort of yeah, to to bring the, 

1102
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:07,520
the, yeah, to, to, to bring, to 
invite the, the, the audience 

1103
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:12,480
closer to, to the theme. 
I, I, you know, it's added value

1104
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:17,080
and whether you're not, you 
perceive it as a conscious thing

1105
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:23,200
or or or not it's there and you,
you wouldn't notice the 

1106
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:25,800
difference because it's, it's 
there. 

1107
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:33,360
It's like, it's like how you 
used to view songs, poetry, 

1108
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:36,680
runes in, in a, in a oral 
society. 

1109
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:41,280
You know, that's what the power 
of song and poetry, why it was 

1110
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:50,320
real was because because saying 
something or naming a person is 

1111
01:31:51,400 --> 01:31:57,400
makes it physical in a sense. 
It's it's a different view. 

1112
01:32:00,440 --> 01:32:03,360
Yeah, I explained it a bit 
poorly, but. 

1113
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:07,320
No, I think it makes it makes 
perfect sense, Yeah. 

1114
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:10,440
Yeah, I think so too. 
And I think there is great. 

1115
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:16,560
I think there is more wisdom in 
that than people today tend to 

1116
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:21,440
think just for the reason that 
the world is real, relational 

1117
01:32:21,440 --> 01:32:25,200
and we do affect each other with
what we say and how we do. 

1118
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:30,440
It's just that our you know, I 
don't believe that things. 

1119
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:34,960
I I don't like the word 
supernatural. 

1120
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:39,280
It's just natural. 
It's just that we don't things 

1121
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:43,680
we don't understand or can 
measure, we tend to call 

1122
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:46,760
supernational. 
Yeah. 

1123
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:47,880
Yeah. 
Well, that's who. 

1124
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:51,040
Yeah, yeah. 
Supernatural or or or. 

1125
01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:52,840
Yeah. 
Yes. 

1126
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:56,240
So it's it's just. 
I was trying to find a different

1127
01:32:56,240 --> 01:33:00,560
word for it, but yeah. 
But yeah, I I can't remember 

1128
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:02,920
what I was talking about to be 
honest. 

1129
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,280
I'm sorry that maybe that was 
my, my fault, but I, I, I, I 

1130
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:08,600
felt like you made made perfect 
sense anyways. 

1131
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:13,960
Good. 
But how, how then like you say 

1132
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:17,480
you work a lot with soundscapes 
and it's like evolving 

1133
01:33:17,480 --> 01:33:23,600
soundscapes and stuff like that,
but how, how do you decide when 

1134
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:28,000
a piece is complete? 
When do you know? 

1135
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:34,080
That's a discipline and yeah, 
because you can work on a song 

1136
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:41,440
for yeah, forever, basically, if
you're I'm. 

1137
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:48,720
That was actually very, very 
challenging for me. 

1138
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:53,560
That's something I've, I've had 
to like, learn and evolve that 

1139
01:33:53,560 --> 01:34:00,080
skill to, to, to set a period to
like, say that this is, this is 

1140
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:04,960
what it's supposed to be. 
And like trusting because it's 

1141
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:10,520
also about that trusting that, 
that, that you're there. 

1142
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:16,120
But then that is also why I like
to when I go in studio or when I

1143
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:20,280
work with an album, I don't do 
like a lot of artists. 

1144
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:23,640
They go into studio and then 
they're there for a month or two

1145
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:28,040
or a week or whatever. 
Write, write the material and 

1146
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:33,520
record it for me. 
I, I need to do it in bulks. 

1147
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:39,440
So I go in, go into that mode. 
I, I record, but then I go back 

1148
01:34:40,440 --> 01:34:44,160
and let it stay and don't relate
to it, don't listen to it. 

1149
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:49,000
And then I revisit, you know, so
I, I work in these bulks and 

1150
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:53,800
then when I, I get closer to, to
when, when I have to deliver 

1151
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:57,800
something that those last like 
six months. 

1152
01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:03,920
And then I will go more 
intensively and stay there and, 

1153
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:08,840
and eat, sleep, drink, breathe 
the, the, the songs. 

1154
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:12,600
But it, it allows me to have 
that perspective more easily as 

1155
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:14,840
well. 
When, when something is done, 

1156
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:19,400
when it feels like, yeah, this 
is how it how it needs to be, 

1157
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:26,560
how it's supposed to be. 
So you said earlier that you're 

1158
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:29,720
creative juices are tingling a 
little bit. 

1159
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:35,280
What's what are the plans for 
Vadrina right now? 

1160
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:39,200
I could tell you, but then I 
would have to kill you. 

1161
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:51,200
No, no, there, there aren't 
actually anything that I'm I can

1162
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:56,440
talk too much about. 
There are things in the works, 

1163
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:00,040
but it's going to move slowly 
still. 

1164
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:07,240
So for now that the most, yeah. 
But yeah. 

1165
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:13,960
So for now it's we're doing like
this big concert in in in Oslo 

1166
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:22,600
in this beautiful outlook place 
in in Oslo. 

1167
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:29,240
We're doing that in in early 
June together with with a few 

1168
01:36:29,440 --> 01:36:34,360
really nice artists. 
Molly Boy and Got is doing the 

1169
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:41,200
acoustic set and Salah Pachman, 
Swedish folk musician and I was 

1170
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:45,200
starting. 
So we're, yeah, doing this sort 

1171
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:49,840
of Nordic night thing, which is 
going to be, yeah, our only 

1172
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,920
concert in in Norway for for the
foreseeable future. 

1173
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:59,920
And, and one of very few 
concerts we're going to do in 

1174
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:03,960
the time to come. 
So, yeah. 

1175
01:37:03,960 --> 01:37:06,000
And then there is a few other 
things. 

1176
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:12,160
So we're, we're sort of going to
be out and about in between and 

1177
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:15,680
stuff is going to happen in the 
shadows for now. 

1178
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:23,400
But yeah, it's all in a, in a 
comfortable pace and where there

1179
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:27,320
is space for, for life and for, 
for, yeah. 

1180
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:31,880
Letting creativity. 
Yeah. 

1181
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:34,520
Come to me. 
Yeah, but in the meantime, if 

1182
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:36,680
people want to get their 
wardrobe now and they need to go

1183
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:40,880
to Oslo then? 
Yeah, I would say yeah, Yeah, 

1184
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:43,200
that's yeah. 
Go to Oslo. 

1185
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:44,400
Yeah. 
Yes, that's good. 

1186
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,400
Yeah, but only for our concerns.
Yeah, because. 

1187
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:55,920
So since you were the very first
guest on this show, yeah, we 

1188
01:37:55,920 --> 01:38:01,320
actually never got to ask you a 
couple of questions that have 

1189
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:07,080
more or less become signature, 
signature questions for this 

1190
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:11,480
podcast. 
And these are the really, really

1191
01:38:11,480 --> 01:38:16,040
tough ones. 
So it's two questions. 

1192
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:18,400
Are you ready? 
Yes. 

1193
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:25,160
All right, first one, if you 
could go back in time and be a 

1194
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:33,800
family on the wall during any 
event during the Viking Age or 

1195
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:38,800
at any place during the Viking 
Age, what would you like to 

1196
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:43,920
witness or experience? 
Viking Age. 

1197
01:38:44,280 --> 01:38:48,120
Yeah. 
Then it would have to be a safe 

1198
01:38:48,480 --> 01:38:50,720
ritual. 
Why? 

1199
01:38:52,120 --> 01:39:00,520
Because the sources are so 
meticulously accurate about 

1200
01:39:00,520 --> 01:39:08,120
saying everything, it sort of 
describes everything but the 

1201
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:14,640
ACT, you know, and there are a 
lot of threads and, and hints 

1202
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,480
and, you know, throughout the 
sources and then later lore and 

1203
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:23,320
in archaeology, there are a lot 
of suggestions and hypothesis 

1204
01:39:23,320 --> 01:39:29,440
and, and, and of course, things 
we can fairly clearly see 

1205
01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:37,120
patterns of or, or assume, but 
there are still many unanswered 

1206
01:39:37,640 --> 01:39:43,400
questions. 
And, and of course, for me, I've

1207
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:48,640
never been had much interest in,
in swords and Spears and battles

1208
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,000
and stuff like that. 
For me, it's always been the 

1209
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:56,920
esoteric part that has piqued my
interest. 

1210
01:39:56,920 --> 01:40:01,000
So, so for sure that was 
actually an easy question. 

1211
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:05,720
Maybe this next one that will be
harder. 

1212
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:10,080
Bring it. 
Would you have wanted to live 

1213
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:17,440
back in the Viking Age? 
Nope, definitely not. 

1214
01:40:17,440 --> 01:40:18,480
Why not? 
No, who? 

1215
01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:26,720
I'm not no, you know, I don't 
have a romantic romantic 

1216
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:33,120
relation to to the past. 
So in in one way, I would love 

1217
01:40:33,120 --> 01:40:41,960
to live in a version of it for 
the mere fact that we we lived 

1218
01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:47,880
closer to nature and we had 
start we had started the process

1219
01:40:47,880 --> 01:40:51,080
of fucking everything up, but we
weren't that far into it. 

1220
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:58,000
So for that reason, of course 
it's tempting to say yes, but 

1221
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:04,000
but I, I don't think we, we need
to fool anyone. 

1222
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:10,960
It's it was brutal, it was hard.
It was such a battle to to just 

1223
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:15,640
survive and. 
I think also it's, it's 

1224
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:19,360
important to remember that if 
you would be magically, 

1225
01:41:19,480 --> 01:41:24,760
magically transported back in 
time and to live there, family 

1226
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:26,960
and connections was everything. 
Yeah. 

1227
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:30,080
And you would have nothing. 
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

1228
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
If you were there as yourself 

1229
01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:38,480
your present version, the 
present me would get the. 

1230
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,520
You wouldn't crush a week. 
Probably No. 

1231
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:42,800
No, I wouldn't. 
Crushed like a twig. 

1232
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:45,920
Yeah. 
No, we would be fucked. 

1233
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:50,280
Yeah. 
So no, I I think I'll stay here 

1234
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:54,760
and deal. 
Deal with today's problems. 

1235
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,760
But on a follow up, questions 
that then you said they lived 

1236
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:03,320
closer to nature's nature. 
They had begun to fuck it up. 

1237
01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:08,400
But yeah, do you think that 
humanity where we are today, 

1238
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:11,560
considering everything that's 
going on in the world, do you 

1239
01:42:11,560 --> 01:42:15,840
think there is a chance for 
humanity to find its way back to

1240
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:18,280
to live closer to nature in that
way? 

1241
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:27,400
Not in that way, but, you know, 
the the question is, was there 

1242
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:36,800
ever a time where we didn't, you
know, overspend resources 

1243
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:42,000
because our our need to sort of 
control our environment, you 

1244
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:44,720
know, because you needed to in 
order to survive. 

1245
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:54,760
That need has sort of push the 
limits and it's still pushing 

1246
01:42:54,760 --> 01:42:58,080
the the limits. 
So I don't know. 

1247
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:04,440
We have to Start learning from 
the past and there has to be a 

1248
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:10,600
willingness to to change. 
And I think, you know, yeah, I 

1249
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:14,920
don't know, maybe a form of it. 
Maybe that's it's not regression

1250
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:18,680
we need, but progression. 
Yeah, exactly, Exactly. 

1251
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:24,600
You know, that time is never 
going to return if there ever 

1252
01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:28,640
were such a time. 
I know there are indigenous 

1253
01:43:29,480 --> 01:43:34,200
cultures that have always been 
really good at, you know, not 

1254
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:43,480
overspending and always like, 
well, what I'm trying to say is 

1255
01:43:43,480 --> 01:43:49,000
that we were never part of that 
gang as as far as we know as. 

1256
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:52,760
Far as we know, yeah, it's true.
Well, that's a it's a very great

1257
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:55,240
way to end this podcast. 
Thank you so much for coming 

1258
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:59,960
back and for talking to us. 
And all the best for the future 

1259
01:43:59,960 --> 01:44:02,480
for Vardrina and looking forward
to some new material. 

1260
01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:08,120
And to everyone at home, go 
check out the the documentary on

1261
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:11,120
your YouTube channel and the 
album Beer Now. 

1262
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:12,320
Yes. 
All right. 

1263
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:14,560
Yeah. 
Thank you so much for for having

1264
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:16,040
me. 
It was an honor. 

1265
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:23,360
Thank you. 
Hey guys, if you enjoyed this 

1266
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:27,720
episode, check out our other 
episodes on our YouTube channel,

1267
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:32,800
Spotify and other podcast 
streaming services and also 

1268
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:36,560
subscribe to support our work. 
Thanks for listening.