1 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,960 Hello and welcome to to be a boy with me, Jolie brilly and. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Me, Elliot Ray. We are back. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,480 We're going to be spending this episode talking just me and 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,320 Elliot and our Kaylee, who you haven't all met before but is 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,840 our brilliant behind the scenes producer is going to be asking 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,160 us questions. It's Question Time with Kaylee. 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,280 Question Time with Kaylee. This is the most special guest I 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,120 think we've ever had. I am so excited about questions 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,120 with Kaylee. Like I literally last night I 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,320 was out thinking about it at 11 PMI was trying to go to sleep 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,400 and I was so excited about Kaylee asking out some random 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,640 questions. Well, that's going to make my 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,200 day. Taking up your headspace like 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,680 that. I'm very excited. 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,840 I'm always here, but I'm excited to be here here today. 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,520 Thank you guys. If anybody has an idea for a 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,760 Jingle for questions, Question Time with Kaylee, then let us 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,120 know. Send us a send us a little voice 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,160 note or send us a little e-mail saying you've got an idea for a 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,520 Jingle because the best we've come up with it Question Time. 21 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:21,080 Question Time with Kaylee. It saves me a job, so I'd be 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,800 really up for lots of people. Suddenly voice dates. 23 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Then we could, yeah. Cool, and we can play them and 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,440 pick the best one live on air. Maybe listen to the episode 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,760 because Question Time I think maybe sounds like it could be 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:37,800 quite smart and intelligent. So maybe listen to this episode 27 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,880 before you come up with the Jingle, because it might not be 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,640 that much like actual Question Time. 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,800 We didn't promise no bodily fluids so. 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,840 It's all going to be based on the topic, isn't it? 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,120 We're not like veering wildly off topic. 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,600 We're going to. No. 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Men. No. 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Yeah, focus on boys and men. Don't worry, I'm not. 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,600 I really AM not going to bring up bodily fluids. 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,720 So I promise, OK, we're going straight in. 37 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,240 My first question is, is I think maybe deep end ish, I'm going to 38 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,640 go straight in with the ick. I want to talk about the ick 39 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,280 because we've touched on it a couple of times when I think 40 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,640 we've only named it as the ick once in previous podcasts, 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,440 talking about how there's this sort of difference between we 42 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,400 really want men to open up and be more emotional. 43 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,920 And sometimes women say that actually turns them off. 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,200 So I think maybe this first question might be for you, 45 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,720 Jodie, maybe you, Elliot, but how much do you think this ick 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:49,160 culture is confusing the dating landscape for men when we're 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,560 asking them to be more emotionally available, but signs 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,600 from women are maybe saying otherwise? 49 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,360 I, I mean, that's a great question. 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,920 I feel really old when people ask me questions like this 51 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,600 because it's such a, that's such a modern phenomenon. 52 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,800 There was never the ick when I was dating when I was younger. 53 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,400 It does feel very an ease, like people are very easily turned 54 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,000 off. And actually every single 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,040 person, if we define the ick as something that irritates you, 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,160 people are going to irritate you. 57 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,560 Of course they are. I mean, I get irritated by 58 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,400 everybody. I get irritated by my own kids 59 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,400 who I adore. I get irritated by my partner. 60 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,240 I get irritated by my mother a lot. 61 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:37,040 And you know, so you, you just, I think we need to stop being so 62 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:44,880 fickle and we need to accept that irritation comes part and 63 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,080 parcel of any healthy relationship and that you have 64 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:55,000 to find ways of, of dealing with that rather than just casting 65 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,560 somebody out because they may have eaten with their mouth open 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,920 or. Although that is a bad ick 67 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,880 though. That's actually one of my ex. 68 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,000 Oh yeah, it's one of it's one can't bear it. 69 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,000 And he doesn't like the way I eat, so he won't look at me when 70 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,840 I'm when I eat. That is actually you've named my 71 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:16,640 one ick that is like the one ick I have. 72 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,399 Like just close your mouth one. Please but. 73 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,240 That's a that's that's an OK ick. 74 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,120 That's different. Oh, you cried at a movie. 75 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,440 Now, I don't fancy you because you're not a man like I think. 76 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,440 That do people call that a neck? Is that a neck or do you? 77 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,640 Know what? There's a program called Pop the 78 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,480 Balloon and I love it. It's, it's kind of it's American 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:44,840 and it is on YouTube and it's kind of trashy, but also quite a 80 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:46,920 good social experiment. So what it is, you'll have like 81 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,680 a group of men or a group of women lining up with a balloon 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,760 and then someone from the opposite sex comes out and they 83 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,880 ask them a series of questions. And if they don't like them the 84 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,080 way they look or what they say, pop the balloon. 85 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,560 And then whoever has their balloon at the end, they match 86 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,680 and they go on date. Sometimes they get married and 87 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,840 have babies. And it's, it's actually a very 88 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,080 interesting, like social experiment. 89 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,800 And yesterday I was watching it and this guy came out and it was 90 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,240 funny because he was, he's quite built. 91 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,480 He was quite tall. He looked quite quote UN quote, 92 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,640 what you would describe as that traditionally masculine and 93 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,360 whatnot. He we had a calm voice and he's 94 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,440 quite softly spoken. And he got to the end and there 95 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,200 were three women with their balloons unpopped. 96 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,720 And then one of the women said, oh, I love everything about you. 97 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,280 You've got a good career, you're in shape, you seem polite, 98 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,120 you're looking for love, but you're too softly spoken. 99 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,120 And then they, they all pop their balloons. 100 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,120 I looked at the comments and the comments were like, yeah, This 101 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,560 is why you're all single because what the hell? 102 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,560 Yeah. But it was that kind of OK. 103 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,720 So he's clearly what you would, what we would call like, you 104 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,560 know, traditionally man's man. He's, he's from what I'm looking 105 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,800 at. He's got all those attributes 106 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,640 that we would associate with that. 107 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,200 But the fact that he spoke a bit soft put you off. 108 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,560 And it's like he's not in a threatening environment. 109 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,560 He's talking to women, he's being recorded on on ATV show. 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,120 That's going to get millions of views. 111 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,400 Like do you want him to come out and start screaming and 112 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:18,240 shouting? Like what? 113 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,040 I didn't understand what they wanted from him. 114 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,640 And it was just so interesting to see because he looked like a 115 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,360 good man to me. And he looked like someone that 116 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,760 would be calm, that would work through problems, that would, 117 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,440 you know, not overreact to stuff. 118 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,200 But because he's too softly spoken, you're going to pop the 119 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,920 balloon on him. So I think it's tough. 120 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,680 I think it's really difficult and I think for a lot of younger 121 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:47,440 men that I speak to, they do feel like in the dating market, 122 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,480 they, they, they do need to be buff. 123 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,280 They do need to be assertive. They do need to make loads of 124 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:53,640 money. They still feel judged by their 125 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,280 standards. But at the same time, society is 126 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,360 saying to them be gentle, be emotionally available, et 127 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,720 cetera. And it's hard. 128 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,880 And I feel like you can do both. I feel like as a man, you can be 129 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,360 both. It just is maybe not completely 130 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,400 natural for some people and I think does take work. 131 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,120 And I think we need to be graceful when people are on 132 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,960 their journey of getting there because I think being both is 133 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,040 actually really important. I think it's important to be 134 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,840 both. And the most women should 135 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,680 appreciate emotionally available men because in a few years time 136 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,480 you're really going to appreciate an emotionally 137 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,600 available man. You may not appreciate it 138 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,840 initially, but trust me, you really need that as time 139 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,560 progresses in a relationship. And that's what I was thinking 140 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,960 when they put the balloon. I was like, it might be OK now, 141 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,320 10 years later. Do you know what I mean? 142 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,040 When she hits the fan and you go through something serious in 143 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,480 life and you got a couple kids and your parents are aging and 144 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,320 they're like, these things are happening, you're going to 145 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,480 really appreciate this softly spoken, calm man. 146 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,120 Maybe right now he's not as exciting for you. 147 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,040 But I just couldn't, couldn't get out of my head that that's a 148 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,440 really kind of bad choice you're making. 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,840 And how do we then, how do we educate each other about growth 150 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,680 and what actually does make a good partner? 151 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:14,840 There was, I was speaking to somebody. 152 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,160 I went the other day as a lawyer and she was men touring, two 153 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,200 young women. And she said she took them to 154 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,520 one side, sat them down and said, right, you're in your 155 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,920 early 20s, do you want kids? And they said yes. 156 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,240 And she was like, right, I need you to think about the person 157 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:34,360 that you're with at the moment. Are you going to properly split 158 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,080 the domestic labour? Are you going to have a 159 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,679 conversation with them about how who's going to do the caring? 160 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,679 How are you going to progress your career when you have kids? 161 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,240 Who is going to do the cooking, the cleaning, the washing? 162 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,920 Do you have a fair split of the domestic like all of these 163 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:54,640 things that you actually really women are not taught to think 164 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,360 about? And then they get in a 165 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,080 relationship and they have a child and they realise they have 166 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,200 to make all of these sacrifices because a limiter for the 167 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,160 biggest limiter for a woman is the man that she is with. 168 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,160 He can make her life incredibly difficult if she wants to 169 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,240 continue her career after having a child. 170 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:14,600 And I think we need to have more open, honest conversations with 171 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,160 men and women from an earlier stage about what healthy 172 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,000 relationships look like, not just in terms of sex, but in 173 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,000 terms of actual and having conversations about what you 174 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,760 both want at an earlier stage. And I think them women might 175 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,520 start to cotton on too, because I know so many women who feel 176 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,560 like they made a mass mistake with the man that they chose 177 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:37,600 because they didn't know this stuff up front. 178 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,480 And so there's, you know, a high divorce rate later on because 179 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,880 women are like, this just isn't working for me. 180 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,720 I feel like I've missed out on my life. 181 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,560 And actually if we started to have those conversations much 182 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:52,040 earlier with girls in particular, but also with boys, 183 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,720 then I think we could really start to change those dynamics 184 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,320 and dilute this ick issue because you'd be looking for 185 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,240 different characteristics well. Said Jolie. 186 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,960 Yeah, I agree. I support your manifesto. 187 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,800 I big time to support that. You want to be able to say it to 188 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,160 the balloon softly spoken guy as well, don't you? 189 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,640 You want to be like you should carry on being you don't Don't 190 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,360 change. Be be softly spoken and be an 191 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,400 emotionally available man because you're actually what 192 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,360 women in their 30s want. I thought, do I just jump in 193 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,480 your DMS and tell you that I genuinely is going to do that? 194 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:28,520 And I thought that might be a bit weird. 195 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,160 I didn't. I might jump in his DMS and be 196 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,400 like, you go carry on man. You're a good guy. 197 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,920 Next question. OK, let's go next. 198 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,160 Question. OK, this is a quick one and it 199 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,400 plays off of you just you said a good man Elliot, I want to go 200 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,960 back to Sarah Otquil Smith and we talked about love songs and 201 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,240 you got you got quite passionate about your love songs. 202 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,000 I want to know who you think is a good man of music. 203 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,760 I thought you would have asked me to sing a love song. 204 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,880 You can. Which I haven't prepared for, of 205 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,960 course. OK, what's a good man in music? 206 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,360 I don't think you you would know who who I'm going to talk about. 207 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:12,840 But there's a guy and anyone that does know, hit me up, 208 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,280 e-mail us. He's a, he's a grime MC called 209 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,840 JME. His brother's more famous than 210 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,120 him. His brother's called Skepta. 211 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,760 But JME. So he's from North London, he's 212 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,840 from Tottenham. Black guy grew up in a quite a 213 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,840 rough area. And the reason why I respect 214 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,960 Jamie so much is because for a couple of reasons, he's always 215 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,520 stuck to his like ethics when it comes to the music he makes. 216 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,280 So he does grime music, he MCS his only done that he's believed 217 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,200 in that he's invested in himself, he's completely 218 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,600 independent and he talks a lot about being independent and the 219 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,760 business behind it, and he educates a lot of people. 220 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,640 So I love that. I also love the fact that from 221 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,840 very young, he never felt like he had to cave in and talk about 222 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:04,840 violence unnecessarily. So in a quiet, violent genre, 223 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,560 you're around people who are saying certain lyrics, and he 224 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:10,720 never felt like he had to conform to that because that 225 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,200 wasn't who he was. He went to university, he's a 226 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,520 bit of a geek. He likes tech. 227 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,920 So he kind of just rapped about what he liked, and he was just 228 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,880 rapping about his life in the midst of a room of people 229 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,480 rapping about various other things. 230 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,400 And so I really respect that about him. 231 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,960 But the most important thing is that, you know, he's a he's a 232 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,640 family man. He's married, he's got two kids. 233 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,480 He talks about that in his raps. He talks about the value of like 234 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,720 his relationship to to his stability and his his career. 235 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:46,040 And I think just those things may be in isolation aren't 236 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,520 remarkable, but I think him doing that in the environment 237 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,520 that he's in, it takes a lot of strength to do that and a lot of 238 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,160 knowing of self and character and belief in who you are and 239 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,160 just not being willing to cave to the peer pressure. 240 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:06,480 And so Jamie, absolute legend. I would actually love to get him 241 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,640 on the podcast, to be honest. Like he's like famous in in in 242 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,360 the scene of black British music. 243 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,360 He's a legend. And he is my musical good guy. 244 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,600 OK, Jamie, I'm going to write that down. 245 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,680 I'm going to listen and do my job as a producer maybe, Right, 246 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,840 Right. OK. 247 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,640 So I've got a question now that's for both of you, but I 248 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,000 think maybe there's a tweaked version I'm going to give you. 249 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,560 So thinking about the manosphere, Jodie, your question 250 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,360 is, do you think or do you perceive there to be a 251 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,280 difference in the manosphere in the north of England, to the 252 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,640 South of England? Like the sort of is there a 253 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,240 northern version of a manosphere? 254 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,240 And I think this kind of version for you, Elliot, is can you see 255 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,960 a difference in the manosphere on an intersectional basis? 256 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,560 I mean, I don't feel qualified really enough to answer that, 257 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,400 partly because I mean, I don't know with the experiences in the 258 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:08,400 South. So I don't know if it's 259 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,560 different in the North to the South. 260 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,160 But also like I don't have direct experience in that my 261 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,320 kids are not really there yet. Like my eldest is 11. 262 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:21,160 But I do think there is a big, there is differences between 263 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,480 upbringing of kids in the north and in the South. 264 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,560 I've, I feel like there's this poverty in the North feels much 265 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,520 deeper than it does to me in the South. 266 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,040 And I say that probably because I spent a lot of years in 267 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,640 Newcastle, where there's deep, deep poverty in the Northeast. 268 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,120 I would say there's more racism in the North and in the South, 269 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,960 partly because there's pockets of the North that are so white. 270 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,040 Where I live there are flags everywhere so it's like a 271 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,720 hotbed. For the menosphere to come and 272 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,680 just pluck men, Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I suppose it is, although 273 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,160 we know that. We know that people that are 274 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,240 more attracted to the manosphere are middle class kids. 275 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,520 That's what the data says that actually it's not who you would 276 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,520 think it is. It's not 14 year old working 277 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,960 class kids, middle class men in the young men in their 20s that 278 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,520 are more attracted to it. But I don't know, I suppose, you 279 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,240 know, there's the thing that I see a lot of with 1415 year old 280 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,120 kids around where I live. Boys, they hang around in gangs, 281 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,560 they all look the same. They all want to be hard. 282 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:42,720 There's quite a lot of violence and I have seen signs of racism 283 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,640 really bubbling away around where I live and I'm finding it 284 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,200 all quite terrifying. I don't know if that's the same 285 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,760 in the South because I'm not. I don't live there. 286 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,680 It's not part of my community, but you know, I do feel that 287 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,960 kids are really disenfranchised at the moment around here, for 288 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,800 sure. I can't talk. 289 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,200 For the whole of the South, because I'm a London boy really, 290 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,160 but I can talk for London, yeah. I don't think you're going to 291 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,920 get the levels of racism in London that you would in the 292 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,720 North. You know, you go to Brixton or 293 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,200 Hackney or Tottenham, Walthamstow, it's predominantly 294 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,360 black and brown areas, you know, so it'll still be there, but I 295 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,520 don't think to the point of it being an an issue where you're 296 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,680 outnumbered by racists, for example. 297 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,880 But in the question in terms of the manosphere and in sexuality, 298 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:38,680 it's a tough one. I feel like the young black boys 299 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,440 that I speak to and I'm, I'm, I'm around don't necessarily 300 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,600 feel like the, the, the manosphere is maybe the main 301 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,160 point of reference in their life. 302 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,520 You know, I think there's, there's a lot more of a factors. 303 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,320 I think there's so it exists from my what I see it exists, 304 00:16:54,360 --> 00:17:01,720 but I think maybe the bigger influence is like your who, your 305 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,880 who your your environment, your friends, like how much money 306 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,640 your parents have, whether your parents are able to be there 307 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,400 when you get home and make food for you or take you to various 308 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,119 activities, what your friends are up to the amount of freedom 309 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,160 you get in in your house. I don't know if a young black 310 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:28,160 boy who's 12 years old from Wembley is as entrenched in the 311 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,120 manosphere as a white middle class boy who's 19 and stays at 312 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:36,400 home and doesn't work. That's just my opinion. 313 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,720 I don't know. Again, I'm not necessarily an 314 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,480 expert in that particular area, so it's hard to say, but just my 315 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,640 feeling of what I see, I guess I feel like. 316 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,760 This is something we want to unpick a bit more in the 317 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,080 podcast. Maybe I really get an. 318 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,840 Expert on I think I'd. Love to interview some like 319 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:54,760 teachers from second across the UK because they they will know 320 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,160 much better than we do. What exactly is going on for 321 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,200 boys? Yeah. 322 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,040 Exactly, Yeah. E-mail us listening teachers. 323 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,720 OK, I want to go behind the scenes now, not to mention the 324 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,880 NBA again. But you know, you've obviously 325 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,720 done a lot together. You could mention the NBA again. 326 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,040 That's fine. But you've you've done it, 327 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,080 you've got your MBE together, you've got a show together. 328 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,400 I know you do a lot of live stuff together. 329 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,680 So I want to know what sort of join your like collective 330 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,000 biggest wow moment has been like whether it's meeting someone or 331 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,520 you've come off the stage together or you've met the king 332 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,440 when you're getting said MBE, what what where you look to each 333 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,360 other? Mine is Jodie asking me to do 334 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:49,520 this podcast. That was the biggest point in my 335 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,680 life. I was like, I've made it the 336 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,240 Joni Brilli is asking Elliot Ray to do. 337 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,720 I could share that. I could share that. 338 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,680 So that this evening, No, that's it. 339 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,280 That's that's my answer. What's yours into the? 340 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:04,960 DMS and we were like, yeah, she said into. 341 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,400 My DMS Yeah, in my in my e-mail. I think it was this. 342 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Doing this podcast is the joy of my win, like genuinely, because 343 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,640 I love working with you 2 and not to have a total loving, but 344 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,840 it's such you 2 of the you 2 are colleagues. 345 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,080 I don't have any of the colleagues like your colleagues 346 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,320 have made and it shout out. Producer James, at the moment, 347 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,160 he's on that leave as well and. James of course we're going to 348 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,600 have a, we're going to have a Christmas party out with four of 349 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:35,040 us. And but we had a funny moment, 350 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,000 didn't we, at Wow Festival where I was about to leave and then 351 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,080 bumped into Elliot who was coming in. 352 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,200 And Elliot persuaded me to stay for a bit. 353 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,880 And then we started drinking pints at the bar with Stella 354 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,560 Creasy. The three of us even noticed 355 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,840 because we were just propping up the bar, putting the world to 356 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,040 rights. And then I suddenly was like, Oh 357 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,760 my God, is that the time? Had to leg it out. 358 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,000 Absolutely blotted. That was one of my favourite 359 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000 times. And then your event, Elliot, 360 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,880 which I know we've mentioned before on the podcast, but what 361 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,480 a joy that was and genuinely did give me hope in for the future, 362 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,000 which I felt there's been very little of recently. 363 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,680 But that, the atmosphere, the people there, the conversation, 364 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,600 all of it was such. Was we're just all so hopeful 365 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,960 and I don't think I know anybody else that could have done that 366 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:35,000 besides you because those you know, you are a glue. 367 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,840 You are the sort of person that good people are attracted to and 368 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,360 they and everybody there was there for you, but you made it 369 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:52,240 into something big and important and good conversations that that 370 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,480 just felt so hopeful so you. Know trying to make me. 371 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,840 Cry. No. 372 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,000 And I got to meet you. Why finally? 373 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that was nice. 374 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,560 Seeing you guys hugging was really, really, that was really 375 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,320 nice. I do, you know what? 376 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,160 I think that that event was incredible. 377 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,600 I want to relive that day. Yeah. 378 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,440 Because it took so much planning and so much organization. 379 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,920 And I don't really get nervous. Like I'm not a nervous person 380 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,200 when I'm doing my speaking. I don't. 381 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,880 I get excited. I don't really get nervous, but 382 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,680 the week before the summit I was like shit in myself. 383 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,040 To be honest. I was pretty nervous and I 384 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,480 understood the gravity of the day and what I wanted to get 385 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,560 across was the tone and reflect that yes, this is a celebration, 386 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,080 it's a working dad's summit, we're all here, it's all great, 387 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,000 fine, it's going to be champagne and wine afterwards, fantastic. 388 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,000 But things are shit. And it's like, how do we kind of 389 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,520 get that balance at the same time? 390 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,840 And so I was just so glad that I feel like we achieved that. 391 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,800 And it was an incredible day. It was so good. 392 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,920 And I've been thinking quite a lot about in person stuff and I 393 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,760 feel like I need more in person experiences. 394 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,520 I don't need to be speaking or organizing. 395 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,240 I just actually need to go and meet people in person a little 396 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,320 bit more. But yeah, that day was 397 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,400 incredible. The NBU day was all good. 398 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,560 But for me, do you know what? I don't think there's any this 399 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,960 one day. I think sometimes I just wake up 400 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,760 like I did today with just a load of gratitude. 401 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,360 And I think sometimes it's very easy to think about like, oh, 402 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:25,960 what's not working or what, you know, what rejection came 403 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,160 through or how the progression of what we're campaigning for 404 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,400 hasn't moved as far as we won. And, you know, there's, there's, 405 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,440 there's, there's all that. But at the same time, I think, 406 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,280 Oh my gosh, I'm able to do the stuff I love every day. 407 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,240 I can work with people that I really, really like and enjoy 408 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,680 and enjoy spending time with. I get to make money doing what I 409 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,160 love. I get to have ideas and just 410 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,440 implement them straight away. I get to like go to the gym with 411 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,560 Suella Braverman at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday afternoon. 412 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,240 I. Think you need to give that some 413 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,080 context for anybody listening. No, I'm not going to give it any 414 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,320 context. I'm just going to leave it out 415 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,360 there. You can think what you want to 416 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:03,760 think. OK, we'll clarify. 417 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:04,880 Put a pin. We're going to. 418 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,800 Put a pin in Suella and I will ask about that in the next 419 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,880 questions with Kobe. So yeah, just gratitude. 420 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,400 I just, I just, I'm just, I just feel very lucky. 421 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,800 I know I've worked hard, but I feel very, very lucky to have 422 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,240 the life that I have. And I just want to continue to 423 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,760 work hard, love the people around me and just like look 424 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,480 after my well-being and my mental health and just carry on. 425 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,160 I love that. This next question kind of 426 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,800 relates to that because I know that Jodie, you said on the live 427 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,640 episode actually what one thing can we do to move the dial for 428 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,120 women and you said six weeks parental. 429 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:46,760 Leave I. Wanted to bring that around and 430 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,640 say, what do we think six weeks parental leave is going to do 431 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,000 for men? I know what it does for women 432 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,000 because I've experienced it twice and I think it is amazing 433 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,840 that I think you should, yeah, men should be there at the first 434 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,480 six weeks. It makes me a happy, 435 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,160 well-rounded person to have had that happen. 436 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,560 But yeah, I wondered what you guys thought, how we can sell it 437 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,480 in if, because sometimes you need to say what it's going to 438 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,840 do for men. That's how businesses buy things 439 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,840 sometimes. Yeah, yeah. 440 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,600 I don't want to kind of run through all the benefits in the 441 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,000 way I normally would when I'm kind of proving the business 442 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,480 case. But what I will say is yesterday 443 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:33,760 I spoke to some doctors that work in Niku, so neonatal 444 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,600 intensive care unit down in Basingstoke. 445 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,920 And I did, I did a session for them. 446 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,640 It was a big annual conference and it was doctors and nurses 447 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,480 that work in Niku. And we spoke about the fact 448 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,480 that, you know, they will have so many parents and it's 449 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,320 particularly around dads that will spend time in Niku. 450 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,520 And then like I did, after you leave Niku, you go back to work 451 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,560 straight away. And they were speaking about the 452 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,120 fact that they have loads of mums with their babies in the KU 453 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,120 and the dads just can't be there because after two weeks they 454 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,840 have to go back to work often even beforehand. 455 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,720 And so for the, for the average person who has a stable jobs, 456 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,560 who have healthy incomes and a OK birth and their baby is 457 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,640 healthy, obviously paternity leave is a game changer. 458 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,280 It supports dads to under their child sports, gender equality, 459 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,080 the motherhood penalties that start around how we share the 460 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,800 care going forward, all that sort of stuff. 461 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,520 But when shit gets tough and your baby's sick when they are 462 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,480 born, they're premature or they've got an infection or 463 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,200 heart condition and you have to go back to work and leave your 464 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,400 your, your partner and your baby in that hospital. 465 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,360 I can't put into words like what that is. 466 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,360 And so I think thinking about the people who have it worse off 467 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:55,920 in that moment, what paternity leave does for them is like the 468 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,200 difference between I'm good, I'm well, I'm going to get through 469 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,160 this. And I've got post Natal 470 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,480 depression, I've got PTSD, I've got suicidal ideation, I can't 471 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,760 go on. And it's that serious. 472 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,920 So I think, yeah, yesterday it was amazing, like talking to the 473 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,320 Nickery doctors, them telling me their stories, me talking about 474 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,120 my story like 10 years after my daughter's birth, exactly from 475 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,360 the time paternity leave is really important for those 476 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:22,240 reasons as well. Yeah, I mean, the stories are 477 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,040 really powerful. And the two men closest to me in 478 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,560 my life, So my partner and my dad, it would have been a game 479 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,240 changer for both of them. And if cultural norms had been 480 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,160 different, my dad went back to work after like a day of me 481 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,000 being born. And then I barely saw him again 482 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,000 till like probably like in my 40s. 483 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,440 He just, you know, he just worked. 484 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,320 And that was because it was, he was so conditioned that that was 485 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,080 his role as well as breadwinner. And he just wasn't involved in 486 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,440 doing it very much with this at all. 487 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:59,240 And he regrets that enormously. And that it's, it's really sad 488 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,640 knowing the difference that would have made to his life had 489 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,360 he been, had he had cultural norms been different and he'd 490 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:09,440 been more involved with raising us because he's a, he's a good 491 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,000 man. You know, him and my mum split 492 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,400 up because they didn't understand each other anymore. 493 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,560 She was the main carer. He was out working all the time. 494 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,400 There was just, you know, this division, a chasm that opened up 495 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,360 between them and could never be repaired. 496 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,120 So, and he sort of, you know, at one point, like really lost his 497 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,360 mind and off he went. And I think had he been, had 498 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:36,400 things been different, he would have had a better life. 499 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,480 And then for my partner and when my first was born, we found a 500 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,480 lump on his head and we didn't know what it was. 501 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,280 And we went to the doctors and the doctors were like, we don't 502 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,840 know what it is, let's give it a couple of days and see if the 503 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,640 lump grows. We went back two days later and 504 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,280 they're like, oh, the lump has grown. 505 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,960 You need to go to A&E immediately. 506 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:58,000 I fell apart because at this point I was like 6 days 507 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,240 postpartum. I just completely fell apart and 508 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,880 we took him to A&E and we were in A&E all night and they did 509 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,960 all these tests on him and they were like, we still can't figure 510 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,080 out what it is, but we'll run all these different tests and, 511 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,160 and then you need to come back in a few days and we'll see what 512 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,680 what it is. We went back a few days later. 513 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,000 The doctor told us that he had a severe disability and that he 514 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,520 was going to have to have a metal plate on his head when he 515 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,840 was seven years old. He was going to be physically 516 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:30,160 and mentally disabled and then asked us to leave and told us to 517 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,560 cut that. We'd get a letter sent through 518 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:38,280 the post about next stages. And it was like, it was awful. 519 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,640 It was horrendous because we were just, we just didn't know 520 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,360 what to do and we had no support at all. 521 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,360 And we just wouldn't, you know, being that a weak postpartum, I 522 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,920 just couldn't function. I couldn't cope with any of it. 523 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,560 And then eventually, thankfully, Tom's brother is a doctor and he 524 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,080 helped us think about what to do next. 525 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:02,160 And we ended up seeing a consultant and we had all these 526 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,680 other new tests. And Long story short, it was 527 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,200 because he was four steps delivery and it was it was from 528 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,760 the forceps. There was nothing wrong with 529 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,760 him. But so the two weeks of his 530 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,040 paternity leave was taken up with that like severe stress and 531 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,760 panic and worry. And so we got them, we got the 532 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,520 phone call to say he's fine, there's nothing wrong with him. 533 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,200 And the next day he went back to work. 534 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,000 And as you can imagine, it was just like it went back to work. 535 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,200 And he said he just cried for Dane going back and people were 536 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,320 talking to him about work. And he was like, none of this 537 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,480 matters. I don't care. 538 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:40,920 I'm not interested. And so that was, it was just 539 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:46,640 felt so futile to force him to go back and because he wasn't 540 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,200 functioning, thankfully, he did, you know, his mental health was 541 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:55,200 OK eventually. But what a cruel system to do 542 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,880 that to somebody. And so and those are the two 543 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,560 direct experiences I have and both of them would have 544 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,000 benefited so much from a better from six weeks potentially. 545 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,200 And you feel like the productivity in all of those 546 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,680 stories is so low. Is that the exponential benefit 547 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,120 of giving someone a break to come back? 548 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,720 We need to look at the data, maybe look at how effective it 549 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,040 is on people's productivity and how much money they can make for 550 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,160 a business if they're well rested and they're not stressed 551 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,160 with those things. Yeah, you could start a 552 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,480 campaign. Oh, I've got a couple in my back 553 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,960 pocket, as you know. But yeah, someone, someone 554 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,680 shortly started a campaign about six weeks paternity leave. 555 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,960 Sounds familiar. OK, we're nearly at time. 556 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,320 I want to ask you both, if you weren't doing this, you weren't 557 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:52,360 doing this thing that you'd love thinking back to before culture 558 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,520 change was the massive part of your life, what would you be 559 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,720 doing? What would you want to do, 560 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,760 ideally as a job? So I know what I would do and 561 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,640 it's, it's not completely different, but I always say if I 562 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,960 have ever have to go back into full time employment, I'm 563 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:12,000 working in football and I'm doing community work in a 564 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,680 football club. I, I, so we partner with quite a 565 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,600 few clubs when we do our events and I speak to a lot of people 566 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,160 who do those kind of jobs. Obviously I love football. 567 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,480 I am a football fan. I literally like that is my 568 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,040 passion and music as well. So I love being in the 569 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,640 environment of football. Then you get to do really cool 570 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,840 stuff in community, you get to go into schools, you get to go 571 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,560 into prisons, you get to like do stuff around mental health and 572 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,560 gender quality and racism. So yeah, if I ever have to get a 573 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,200 job, if this shit goes to fan the fan and I'm broke, I will be 574 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,800 getting a job as a community lead at my local football team. 575 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,240 Great. I love that, you know that I 576 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,440 have no idea. I've I am one of like out of 577 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,280 everybody I know and talk to, I'm one of very few people that 578 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,680 is that feels content in what they're doing. 579 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,480 Everybody I know says they're just sort of treading water. 580 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,720 They're just doing it because they have to actually, they wish 581 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,400 they were doing something completely different. 582 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,320 Why did they end up doing this job? 583 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,840 I am one of very few people that has found where has got where 584 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,360 that they feel is meaningful and that they're enjoying enough. 585 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,040 I just feel really grateful for that and actually feel grateful 586 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,960 for the fact that I got shafted and pushed out of my job when I 587 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,160 was woman's pregnant because I would still be doing something 588 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,320 where, yeah, it was OK, but it didn't light my fire like this. 589 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,240 Just do you. Know what my wife really thought 590 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,040 to get an? Astronaut there and she. 591 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,400 And she always says your mess is your message, which I think 592 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,840 maybe a biblical quote, don't quote me, it may be I don't 593 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,080 know, maybe God said it, who knows. 594 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,560 But I even yesterday during that NICU talk, I really appreciate 595 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,200 it sounds so crazy, but I really, really appreciate like 596 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,120 our birth story because it gave me the fuel and the fire to do 597 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,880 what I do. And I think like you, Jody, if I 598 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,000 hadn't gone through that, I probably still be, would be 599 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,560 working in this civil service like doing risk registers. 600 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,560 No offence to anyone that does risk registers, it's someone's 601 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:14,680 got to do the risk register, right? 602 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,960 But as I was saying earlier, that's just so grateful we get 603 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,440 to come in and talk and get to interview great guests and great 604 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,600 to like mobilize people and spread our message. 605 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,640 And this, it's just incredible. I'm so grateful. 606 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,480 Yeah, you too. That was a. 607 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,920 Lovely place to end. Yeah. 608 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,680 Thank you, Kaylee. We need to do this. 609 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,120 Again, we need to make this a feedback. 610 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,680 Yeah, my WhatsApp, my mum's WhatsApp groups now full of 611 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:41,760 questions. I've got a lot. 612 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,000 I've got a lot. Thanks everyone, see you later. 613 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:45,360 Bye.