Hello and welcome to to be a boy with me, Jolie brilly and.
Me, Elliot Ray. We are back.
We're going to be spending this episode talking just me and
Elliot and our Kaylee, who you haven't all met before but is
our brilliant behind the scenes producer is going to be asking
us questions. It's Question Time with Kaylee.
Question Time with Kaylee. This is the most special guest I
think we've ever had. I am so excited about questions
with Kaylee. Like I literally last night I
was out thinking about it at 11 PMI was trying to go to sleep
and I was so excited about Kaylee asking out some random
questions. Well, that's going to make my
day. Taking up your headspace like
that. I'm very excited.
I'm always here, but I'm excited to be here here today.
Thank you guys. If anybody has an idea for a
Jingle for questions, Question Time with Kaylee, then let us
know. Send us a send us a little voice
note or send us a little e-mail saying you've got an idea for a
Jingle because the best we've come up with it Question Time.
Question Time with Kaylee. It saves me a job, so I'd be
really up for lots of people. Suddenly voice dates.
Then we could, yeah. Cool, and we can play them and
pick the best one live on air. Maybe listen to the episode
because Question Time I think maybe sounds like it could be
quite smart and intelligent. So maybe listen to this episode
before you come up with the Jingle, because it might not be
that much like actual Question Time.
We didn't promise no bodily fluids so.
It's all going to be based on the topic, isn't it?
We're not like veering wildly off topic.
We're going to. No.
Men. No.
Yeah, focus on boys and men. Don't worry, I'm not.
I really AM not going to bring up bodily fluids.
So I promise, OK, we're going straight in.
My first question is, is I think maybe deep end ish, I'm going to
go straight in with the ick. I want to talk about the ick
because we've touched on it a couple of times when I think
we've only named it as the ick once in previous podcasts,
talking about how there's this sort of difference between we
really want men to open up and be more emotional.
And sometimes women say that actually turns them off.
So I think maybe this first question might be for you,
Jodie, maybe you, Elliot, but how much do you think this ick
culture is confusing the dating landscape for men when we're
asking them to be more emotionally available, but signs
from women are maybe saying otherwise?
I, I mean, that's a great question.
I feel really old when people ask me questions like this
because it's such a, that's such a modern phenomenon.
There was never the ick when I was dating when I was younger.
It does feel very an ease, like people are very easily turned
off. And actually every single
person, if we define the ick as something that irritates you,
people are going to irritate you.
Of course they are. I mean, I get irritated by
everybody. I get irritated by my own kids
who I adore. I get irritated by my partner.
I get irritated by my mother a lot.
And you know, so you, you just, I think we need to stop being so
fickle and we need to accept that irritation comes part and
parcel of any healthy relationship and that you have
to find ways of, of dealing with that rather than just casting
somebody out because they may have eaten with their mouth open
or. Although that is a bad ick
though. That's actually one of my ex.
Oh yeah, it's one of it's one can't bear it.
And he doesn't like the way I eat, so he won't look at me when
I'm when I eat. That is actually you've named my
one ick that is like the one ick I have.
Like just close your mouth one. Please but.
That's a that's that's an OK ick.
That's different. Oh, you cried at a movie.
Now, I don't fancy you because you're not a man like I think.
That do people call that a neck? Is that a neck or do you?
Know what? There's a program called Pop the
Balloon and I love it. It's, it's kind of it's American
and it is on YouTube and it's kind of trashy, but also quite a
good social experiment. So what it is, you'll have like
a group of men or a group of women lining up with a balloon
and then someone from the opposite sex comes out and they
ask them a series of questions. And if they don't like them the
way they look or what they say, pop the balloon.
And then whoever has their balloon at the end, they match
and they go on date. Sometimes they get married and
have babies. And it's, it's actually a very
interesting, like social experiment.
And yesterday I was watching it and this guy came out and it was
funny because he was, he's quite built.
He was quite tall. He looked quite quote UN quote,
what you would describe as that traditionally masculine and
whatnot. He we had a calm voice and he's
quite softly spoken. And he got to the end and there
were three women with their balloons unpopped.
And then one of the women said, oh, I love everything about you.
You've got a good career, you're in shape, you seem polite,
you're looking for love, but you're too softly spoken.
And then they, they all pop their balloons.
I looked at the comments and the comments were like, yeah, This
is why you're all single because what the hell?
Yeah. But it was that kind of OK.
So he's clearly what you would, what we would call like, you
know, traditionally man's man. He's, he's from what I'm looking
at. He's got all those attributes
that we would associate with that.
But the fact that he spoke a bit soft put you off.
And it's like he's not in a threatening environment.
He's talking to women, he's being recorded on on ATV show.
That's going to get millions of views.
Like do you want him to come out and start screaming and
shouting? Like what?
I didn't understand what they wanted from him.
And it was just so interesting to see because he looked like a
good man to me. And he looked like someone that
would be calm, that would work through problems, that would,
you know, not overreact to stuff.
But because he's too softly spoken, you're going to pop the
balloon on him. So I think it's tough.
I think it's really difficult and I think for a lot of younger
men that I speak to, they do feel like in the dating market,
they, they, they do need to be buff.
They do need to be assertive. They do need to make loads of
money. They still feel judged by their
standards. But at the same time, society is
saying to them be gentle, be emotionally available, et
cetera. And it's hard.
And I feel like you can do both. I feel like as a man, you can be
both. It just is maybe not completely
natural for some people and I think does take work.
And I think we need to be graceful when people are on
their journey of getting there because I think being both is
actually really important. I think it's important to be
both. And the most women should
appreciate emotionally available men because in a few years time
you're really going to appreciate an emotionally
available man. You may not appreciate it
initially, but trust me, you really need that as time
progresses in a relationship. And that's what I was thinking
when they put the balloon. I was like, it might be OK now,
10 years later. Do you know what I mean?
When she hits the fan and you go through something serious in
life and you got a couple kids and your parents are aging and
they're like, these things are happening, you're going to
really appreciate this softly spoken, calm man.
Maybe right now he's not as exciting for you.
But I just couldn't, couldn't get out of my head that that's a
really kind of bad choice you're making.
And how do we then, how do we educate each other about growth
and what actually does make a good partner?
There was, I was speaking to somebody.
I went the other day as a lawyer and she was men touring, two
young women. And she said she took them to
one side, sat them down and said, right, you're in your
early 20s, do you want kids? And they said yes.
And she was like, right, I need you to think about the person
that you're with at the moment. Are you going to properly split
the domestic labour? Are you going to have a
conversation with them about how who's going to do the caring?
How are you going to progress your career when you have kids?
Who is going to do the cooking, the cleaning, the washing?
Do you have a fair split of the domestic like all of these
things that you actually really women are not taught to think
about? And then they get in a
relationship and they have a child and they realise they have
to make all of these sacrifices because a limiter for the
biggest limiter for a woman is the man that she is with.
He can make her life incredibly difficult if she wants to
continue her career after having a child.
And I think we need to have more open, honest conversations with
men and women from an earlier stage about what healthy
relationships look like, not just in terms of sex, but in
terms of actual and having conversations about what you
both want at an earlier stage. And I think them women might
start to cotton on too, because I know so many women who feel
like they made a mass mistake with the man that they chose
because they didn't know this stuff up front.
And so there's, you know, a high divorce rate later on because
women are like, this just isn't working for me.
I feel like I've missed out on my life.
And actually if we started to have those conversations much
earlier with girls in particular, but also with boys,
then I think we could really start to change those dynamics
and dilute this ick issue because you'd be looking for
different characteristics well. Said Jolie.
Yeah, I agree. I support your manifesto.
I big time to support that. You want to be able to say it to
the balloon softly spoken guy as well, don't you?
You want to be like you should carry on being you don't Don't
change. Be be softly spoken and be an
emotionally available man because you're actually what
women in their 30s want. I thought, do I just jump in
your DMS and tell you that I genuinely is going to do that?
And I thought that might be a bit weird.
I didn't. I might jump in his DMS and be
like, you go carry on man. You're a good guy.
Next question. OK, let's go next.
Question. OK, this is a quick one and it
plays off of you just you said a good man Elliot, I want to go
back to Sarah Otquil Smith and we talked about love songs and
you got you got quite passionate about your love songs.
I want to know who you think is a good man of music.
I thought you would have asked me to sing a love song.
You can. Which I haven't prepared for, of
course. OK, what's a good man in music?
I don't think you you would know who who I'm going to talk about.
But there's a guy and anyone that does know, hit me up,
e-mail us. He's a, he's a grime MC called
JME. His brother's more famous than
him. His brother's called Skepta.
But JME. So he's from North London, he's
from Tottenham. Black guy grew up in a quite a
rough area. And the reason why I respect
Jamie so much is because for a couple of reasons, he's always
stuck to his like ethics when it comes to the music he makes.
So he does grime music, he MCS his only done that he's believed
in that he's invested in himself, he's completely
independent and he talks a lot about being independent and the
business behind it, and he educates a lot of people.
So I love that. I also love the fact that from
very young, he never felt like he had to cave in and talk about
violence unnecessarily. So in a quiet, violent genre,
you're around people who are saying certain lyrics, and he
never felt like he had to conform to that because that
wasn't who he was. He went to university, he's a
bit of a geek. He likes tech.
So he kind of just rapped about what he liked, and he was just
rapping about his life in the midst of a room of people
rapping about various other things.
And so I really respect that about him.
But the most important thing is that, you know, he's a he's a
family man. He's married, he's got two kids.
He talks about that in his raps. He talks about the value of like
his relationship to to his stability and his his career.
And I think just those things may be in isolation aren't
remarkable, but I think him doing that in the environment
that he's in, it takes a lot of strength to do that and a lot of
knowing of self and character and belief in who you are and
just not being willing to cave to the peer pressure.
And so Jamie, absolute legend. I would actually love to get him
on the podcast, to be honest. Like he's like famous in in in
the scene of black British music.
He's a legend. And he is my musical good guy.
OK, Jamie, I'm going to write that down.
I'm going to listen and do my job as a producer maybe, Right,
Right. OK.
So I've got a question now that's for both of you, but I
think maybe there's a tweaked version I'm going to give you.
So thinking about the manosphere, Jodie, your question
is, do you think or do you perceive there to be a
difference in the manosphere in the north of England, to the
South of England? Like the sort of is there a
northern version of a manosphere?
And I think this kind of version for you, Elliot, is can you see
a difference in the manosphere on an intersectional basis?
I mean, I don't feel qualified really enough to answer that,
partly because I mean, I don't know with the experiences in the
South. So I don't know if it's
different in the North to the South.
But also like I don't have direct experience in that my
kids are not really there yet. Like my eldest is 11.
But I do think there is a big, there is differences between
upbringing of kids in the north and in the South.
I've, I feel like there's this poverty in the North feels much
deeper than it does to me in the South.
And I say that probably because I spent a lot of years in
Newcastle, where there's deep, deep poverty in the Northeast.
I would say there's more racism in the North and in the South,
partly because there's pockets of the North that are so white.
Where I live there are flags everywhere so it's like a
hotbed. For the menosphere to come and
just pluck men, Yeah, I mean. Yeah, I suppose it is, although
we know that. We know that people that are
more attracted to the manosphere are middle class kids.
That's what the data says that actually it's not who you would
think it is. It's not 14 year old working
class kids, middle class men in the young men in their 20s that
are more attracted to it. But I don't know, I suppose, you
know, there's the thing that I see a lot of with 1415 year old
kids around where I live. Boys, they hang around in gangs,
they all look the same. They all want to be hard.
There's quite a lot of violence and I have seen signs of racism
really bubbling away around where I live and I'm finding it
all quite terrifying. I don't know if that's the same
in the South because I'm not. I don't live there.
It's not part of my community, but you know, I do feel that
kids are really disenfranchised at the moment around here, for
sure. I can't talk.
For the whole of the South, because I'm a London boy really,
but I can talk for London, yeah. I don't think you're going to
get the levels of racism in London that you would in the
North. You know, you go to Brixton or
Hackney or Tottenham, Walthamstow, it's predominantly
black and brown areas, you know, so it'll still be there, but I
don't think to the point of it being an an issue where you're
outnumbered by racists, for example.
But in the question in terms of the manosphere and in sexuality,
it's a tough one. I feel like the young black boys
that I speak to and I'm, I'm, I'm around don't necessarily
feel like the, the, the manosphere is maybe the main
point of reference in their life.
You know, I think there's, there's a lot more of a factors.
I think there's so it exists from my what I see it exists,
but I think maybe the bigger influence is like your who, your
who your your environment, your friends, like how much money
your parents have, whether your parents are able to be there
when you get home and make food for you or take you to various
activities, what your friends are up to the amount of freedom
you get in in your house. I don't know if a young black
boy who's 12 years old from Wembley is as entrenched in the
manosphere as a white middle class boy who's 19 and stays at
home and doesn't work. That's just my opinion.
I don't know. Again, I'm not necessarily an
expert in that particular area, so it's hard to say, but just my
feeling of what I see, I guess I feel like.
This is something we want to unpick a bit more in the
podcast. Maybe I really get an.
Expert on I think I'd. Love to interview some like
teachers from second across the UK because they they will know
much better than we do. What exactly is going on for
boys? Yeah.
Exactly, Yeah. E-mail us listening teachers.
OK, I want to go behind the scenes now, not to mention the
NBA again. But you know, you've obviously
done a lot together. You could mention the NBA again.
That's fine. But you've you've done it,
you've got your MBE together, you've got a show together.
I know you do a lot of live stuff together.
So I want to know what sort of join your like collective
biggest wow moment has been like whether it's meeting someone or
you've come off the stage together or you've met the king
when you're getting said MBE, what what where you look to each
other? Mine is Jodie asking me to do
this podcast. That was the biggest point in my
life. I was like, I've made it the
Joni Brilli is asking Elliot Ray to do.
I could share that. I could share that.
So that this evening, No, that's it.
That's that's my answer. What's yours into the?
DMS and we were like, yeah, she said into.
My DMS Yeah, in my in my e-mail. I think it was this.
Doing this podcast is the joy of my win, like genuinely, because
I love working with you 2 and not to have a total loving, but
it's such you 2 of the you 2 are colleagues.
I don't have any of the colleagues like your colleagues
have made and it shout out. Producer James, at the moment,
he's on that leave as well and. James of course we're going to
have a, we're going to have a Christmas party out with four of
us. And but we had a funny moment,
didn't we, at Wow Festival where I was about to leave and then
bumped into Elliot who was coming in.
And Elliot persuaded me to stay for a bit.
And then we started drinking pints at the bar with Stella
Creasy. The three of us even noticed
because we were just propping up the bar, putting the world to
rights. And then I suddenly was like, Oh
my God, is that the time? Had to leg it out.
Absolutely blotted. That was one of my favourite
times. And then your event, Elliot,
which I know we've mentioned before on the podcast, but what
a joy that was and genuinely did give me hope in for the future,
which I felt there's been very little of recently.
But that, the atmosphere, the people there, the conversation,
all of it was such. Was we're just all so hopeful
and I don't think I know anybody else that could have done that
besides you because those you know, you are a glue.
You are the sort of person that good people are attracted to and
they and everybody there was there for you, but you made it
into something big and important and good conversations that that
just felt so hopeful so you. Know trying to make me.
Cry. No.
And I got to meet you. Why finally?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that was nice.
Seeing you guys hugging was really, really, that was really
nice. I do, you know what?
I think that that event was incredible.
I want to relive that day. Yeah.
Because it took so much planning and so much organization.
And I don't really get nervous. Like I'm not a nervous person
when I'm doing my speaking. I don't.
I get excited. I don't really get nervous, but
the week before the summit I was like shit in myself.
To be honest. I was pretty nervous and I
understood the gravity of the day and what I wanted to get
across was the tone and reflect that yes, this is a celebration,
it's a working dad's summit, we're all here, it's all great,
fine, it's going to be champagne and wine afterwards, fantastic.
But things are shit. And it's like, how do we kind of
get that balance at the same time?
And so I was just so glad that I feel like we achieved that.
And it was an incredible day. It was so good.
And I've been thinking quite a lot about in person stuff and I
feel like I need more in person experiences.
I don't need to be speaking or organizing.
I just actually need to go and meet people in person a little
bit more. But yeah, that day was
incredible. The NBU day was all good.
But for me, do you know what? I don't think there's any this
one day. I think sometimes I just wake up
like I did today with just a load of gratitude.
And I think sometimes it's very easy to think about like, oh,
what's not working or what, you know, what rejection came
through or how the progression of what we're campaigning for
hasn't moved as far as we won. And, you know, there's, there's,
there's, there's all that. But at the same time, I think,
Oh my gosh, I'm able to do the stuff I love every day.
I can work with people that I really, really like and enjoy
and enjoy spending time with. I get to make money doing what I
love. I get to have ideas and just
implement them straight away. I get to like go to the gym with
Suella Braverman at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday afternoon.
I. Think you need to give that some
context for anybody listening. No, I'm not going to give it any
context. I'm just going to leave it out
there. You can think what you want to
think. OK, we'll clarify.
Put a pin. We're going to.
Put a pin in Suella and I will ask about that in the next
questions with Kobe. So yeah, just gratitude.
I just, I just, I'm just, I just feel very lucky.
I know I've worked hard, but I feel very, very lucky to have
the life that I have. And I just want to continue to
work hard, love the people around me and just like look
after my well-being and my mental health and just carry on.
I love that. This next question kind of
relates to that because I know that Jodie, you said on the live
episode actually what one thing can we do to move the dial for
women and you said six weeks parental.
Leave I. Wanted to bring that around and
say, what do we think six weeks parental leave is going to do
for men? I know what it does for women
because I've experienced it twice and I think it is amazing
that I think you should, yeah, men should be there at the first
six weeks. It makes me a happy,
well-rounded person to have had that happen.
But yeah, I wondered what you guys thought, how we can sell it
in if, because sometimes you need to say what it's going to
do for men. That's how businesses buy things
sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
I don't want to kind of run through all the benefits in the
way I normally would when I'm kind of proving the business
case. But what I will say is yesterday
I spoke to some doctors that work in Niku, so neonatal
intensive care unit down in Basingstoke.
And I did, I did a session for them.
It was a big annual conference and it was doctors and nurses
that work in Niku. And we spoke about the fact
that, you know, they will have so many parents and it's
particularly around dads that will spend time in Niku.
And then like I did, after you leave Niku, you go back to work
straight away. And they were speaking about the
fact that they have loads of mums with their babies in the KU
and the dads just can't be there because after two weeks they
have to go back to work often even beforehand.
And so for the, for the average person who has a stable jobs,
who have healthy incomes and a OK birth and their baby is
healthy, obviously paternity leave is a game changer.
It supports dads to under their child sports, gender equality,
the motherhood penalties that start around how we share the
care going forward, all that sort of stuff.
But when shit gets tough and your baby's sick when they are
born, they're premature or they've got an infection or
heart condition and you have to go back to work and leave your
your, your partner and your baby in that hospital.
I can't put into words like what that is.
And so I think thinking about the people who have it worse off
in that moment, what paternity leave does for them is like the
difference between I'm good, I'm well, I'm going to get through
this. And I've got post Natal
depression, I've got PTSD, I've got suicidal ideation, I can't
go on. And it's that serious.
So I think, yeah, yesterday it was amazing, like talking to the
Nickery doctors, them telling me their stories, me talking about
my story like 10 years after my daughter's birth, exactly from
the time paternity leave is really important for those
reasons as well. Yeah, I mean, the stories are
really powerful. And the two men closest to me in
my life, So my partner and my dad, it would have been a game
changer for both of them. And if cultural norms had been
different, my dad went back to work after like a day of me
being born. And then I barely saw him again
till like probably like in my 40s.
He just, you know, he just worked.
And that was because it was, he was so conditioned that that was
his role as well as breadwinner. And he just wasn't involved in
doing it very much with this at all.
And he regrets that enormously. And that it's, it's really sad
knowing the difference that would have made to his life had
he been, had he had cultural norms been different and he'd
been more involved with raising us because he's a, he's a good
man. You know, him and my mum split
up because they didn't understand each other anymore.
She was the main carer. He was out working all the time.
There was just, you know, this division, a chasm that opened up
between them and could never be repaired.
So, and he sort of, you know, at one point, like really lost his
mind and off he went. And I think had he been, had
things been different, he would have had a better life.
And then for my partner and when my first was born, we found a
lump on his head and we didn't know what it was.
And we went to the doctors and the doctors were like, we don't
know what it is, let's give it a couple of days and see if the
lump grows. We went back two days later and
they're like, oh, the lump has grown.
You need to go to A&E immediately.
I fell apart because at this point I was like 6 days
postpartum. I just completely fell apart and
we took him to A&E and we were in A&E all night and they did
all these tests on him and they were like, we still can't figure
out what it is, but we'll run all these different tests and,
and then you need to come back in a few days and we'll see what
what it is. We went back a few days later.
The doctor told us that he had a severe disability and that he
was going to have to have a metal plate on his head when he
was seven years old. He was going to be physically
and mentally disabled and then asked us to leave and told us to
cut that. We'd get a letter sent through
the post about next stages. And it was like, it was awful.
It was horrendous because we were just, we just didn't know
what to do and we had no support at all.
And we just wouldn't, you know, being that a weak postpartum, I
just couldn't function. I couldn't cope with any of it.
And then eventually, thankfully, Tom's brother is a doctor and he
helped us think about what to do next.
And we ended up seeing a consultant and we had all these
other new tests. And Long story short, it was
because he was four steps delivery and it was it was from
the forceps. There was nothing wrong with
him. But so the two weeks of his
paternity leave was taken up with that like severe stress and
panic and worry. And so we got them, we got the
phone call to say he's fine, there's nothing wrong with him.
And the next day he went back to work.
And as you can imagine, it was just like it went back to work.
And he said he just cried for Dane going back and people were
talking to him about work. And he was like, none of this
matters. I don't care.
I'm not interested. And so that was, it was just
felt so futile to force him to go back and because he wasn't
functioning, thankfully, he did, you know, his mental health was
OK eventually. But what a cruel system to do
that to somebody. And so and those are the two
direct experiences I have and both of them would have
benefited so much from a better from six weeks potentially.
And you feel like the productivity in all of those
stories is so low. Is that the exponential benefit
of giving someone a break to come back?
We need to look at the data, maybe look at how effective it
is on people's productivity and how much money they can make for
a business if they're well rested and they're not stressed
with those things. Yeah, you could start a
campaign. Oh, I've got a couple in my back
pocket, as you know. But yeah, someone, someone
shortly started a campaign about six weeks paternity leave.
Sounds familiar. OK, we're nearly at time.
I want to ask you both, if you weren't doing this, you weren't
doing this thing that you'd love thinking back to before culture
change was the massive part of your life, what would you be
doing? What would you want to do,
ideally as a job? So I know what I would do and
it's, it's not completely different, but I always say if I
have ever have to go back into full time employment, I'm
working in football and I'm doing community work in a
football club. I, I, so we partner with quite a
few clubs when we do our events and I speak to a lot of people
who do those kind of jobs. Obviously I love football.
I am a football fan. I literally like that is my
passion and music as well. So I love being in the
environment of football. Then you get to do really cool
stuff in community, you get to go into schools, you get to go
into prisons, you get to like do stuff around mental health and
gender quality and racism. So yeah, if I ever have to get a
job, if this shit goes to fan the fan and I'm broke, I will be
getting a job as a community lead at my local football team.
Great. I love that, you know that I
have no idea. I've I am one of like out of
everybody I know and talk to, I'm one of very few people that
is that feels content in what they're doing.
Everybody I know says they're just sort of treading water.
They're just doing it because they have to actually, they wish
they were doing something completely different.
Why did they end up doing this job?
I am one of very few people that has found where has got where
that they feel is meaningful and that they're enjoying enough.
I just feel really grateful for that and actually feel grateful
for the fact that I got shafted and pushed out of my job when I
was woman's pregnant because I would still be doing something
where, yeah, it was OK, but it didn't light my fire like this.
Just do you. Know what my wife really thought
to get an? Astronaut there and she.
And she always says your mess is your message, which I think
maybe a biblical quote, don't quote me, it may be I don't
know, maybe God said it, who knows.
But I even yesterday during that NICU talk, I really appreciate
it sounds so crazy, but I really, really appreciate like
our birth story because it gave me the fuel and the fire to do
what I do. And I think like you, Jody, if I
hadn't gone through that, I probably still be, would be
working in this civil service like doing risk registers.
No offence to anyone that does risk registers, it's someone's
got to do the risk register, right?
But as I was saying earlier, that's just so grateful we get
to come in and talk and get to interview great guests and great
to like mobilize people and spread our message.
And this, it's just incredible. I'm so grateful.
Yeah, you too. That was a.
Lovely place to end. Yeah.
Thank you, Kaylee. We need to do this.
Again, we need to make this a feedback.
Yeah, my WhatsApp, my mum's WhatsApp groups now full of
questions. I've got a lot.
Thanks everyone, see you later.
Bye.