1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,880 This episode is supported by Movember, the leading charity 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,160 changing the face of Men's health. 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,520 Hello and welcome to To Be a Boy with Me, Jolie Braley. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,440 And me, Elliot Ray. Today's guest is the minister 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,440 responsible for the Employment Rights Act and the Parental 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,520 Leave Review. She's also the MP for Halifax, 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,760 the town where I was born and grew up until the age of 14 when 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,440 I left the Leeds Boo. Minister Dearden was elected in 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,520 2024 and in 2025 she was appointed Minister for 10 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,640 Employment Rights and Consumer Protection. 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Minister Dearden, welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,320 Thank you for having me. Really lovely to be with you and 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:50,720 we're looking forward to chatting. 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:51,840 Yeah. Brilliant. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,720 We've got lots. Of. 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:54,800 Questions. We are able to talk about the 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,760 Employment Rights Act and as of today, employees are entitled to 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,000 paternity leave and unpaid parental leave from the first 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,480 day in a new job. They are also entitled to 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,680 bereaved partners, potential leave and stronger protections 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,160 for workers who report sexual harassment. 22 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:17,840 Statutory sick pay now has no earnings threshold and is 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,000 available from day one of being sick. 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,920 Employers are. Now being encouraged to publish 25 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,680 action plans to explain how they will reduce their gender pay gap 26 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,680 and support employees through menopause. 27 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,840 And finally, a new body has been established to uphold workers 28 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,160 rights called the Fair Work Agency. 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,480 So it's been pretty busy in your office. 30 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,000 Minister Tayton, first question, could you explain to us the 31 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,200 exact changes you have made to paternity leave and unpaid 32 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,680 parental leave? Because I'm actually I'm not 33 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,280 sure many people understand the difference between what unpaid 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,000 parental leave is and and the potential leave changes. 35 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,280 Yes, of course, really happy to and just to start off by saying 36 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,440 I'm, you know, so happy that I get to be the minister leading 37 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,200 on this really significant piece of work for the government and 38 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,360 the country will affect so many people's lives. 39 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,560 And we can touch on that and all the different policies you've 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,160 just alluded to that we're introducing. 41 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,360 And as of today, and particularly for unpaid parental 42 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,560 leave, impacting and benefiting more than 1.5 million working 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:26,640 parents to 1/30/2000 parents becoming eligible for paternity 44 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:31,040 leave and over 18 million people will be affected by this act in 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,000 itself. So it's a really, really 46 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,480 brilliant piece of legislation that I'm so proud to be leading 47 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,280 on as, as the minister and for the changes, particularly as you 48 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,480 mentioned to paternity leave and an unpaid parental leave can 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,520 walk through kind of the changes we've made and the impact that 50 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,560 I'll have for your listeners and and for parents across the 51 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,160 country. Parents are already entitled to 52 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,000 take, and there's 18 weeks of unpaid parental leave for each 53 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,960 child and they can take that at any point up to their child's 54 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,920 18th birthday at a maximum of four weeks per calendar year. 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,200 Whether it's spending time with your kids in school holidays or 56 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,080 whatever, you need to use that leave for us there. 57 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,920 But at the moment you've got to have worked somewhere for a year 58 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:13,640 before you're eligible. So that's what we're scrapping. 59 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:16,960 So from today, 6th of April, you can take it from that first day 60 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,840 in your new role to provide that flexibility. 61 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,840 And we're also making paternity leave a day one, right? 62 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:29,040 So that's giving fathers and parents so much more flexibility 63 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,760 in how they can use it with the shared parental leave as that's, 64 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,440 you know, going to help help those 1.5 million more parents 65 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,560 that I mentioned right at the start. 66 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,800 And there's over 30,000 dads accessing paternity leave. 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,160 So a really, really significant moment. 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,440 So to clarify on paternity leave that's a non birthing parent 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,920 will still have to have worked for the same employer for at 70 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,800 least six months up to the qualifying week, which is 15 71 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,400 weeks before the baby is due before being eligible for 72 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,520 statutory paternity pay. Is that right? 73 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,800 Yes, that's right. And being really honest with 74 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,920 you, we would of course like to go further on pay, but we've got 75 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,160 to think carefully about the costs, the costs involved, which 76 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,080 is why we've launched the huge parental leave and and pay 77 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,600 review last year. And that's a really important 78 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,560 and focused piece of work. And I'm absolutely the top of my 79 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,800 To Do List along with all the secondary legislation with the 80 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,720 Employment Rights Act. But it's really important. 81 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,600 And we've heard so much from colleagues in the House to 82 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,240 constituents of in my own constituency of Halifax, to 83 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,600 families across the country. And what we've prioritized right 84 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,360 now is making these changes to return to leave so that parents 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,960 can access that guaranteed protective time off with their 86 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,960 families as soon as they start a new job. 87 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,400 And that's a really important step. 88 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,240 And I've seen, as you know, statutory pays is the legal 89 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,520 minimum that employers have to provide. 90 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,920 And I've met a lot of employers who go above and beyond that and 91 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,000 provide even more generous packages. 92 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,760 And we've heard that throughout the review as well. 93 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,640 And that's why we are looking at it as a whole in terms of leave 94 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,880 and pay to understand what more we can do to support working 95 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,120 families in in a sustainable way as possible. 96 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,640 OK, great. Thank you. 97 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,000 We've got loads of. Questions on the plan to leave 98 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,920 with you to ask you, as you would imagine, looking at the 99 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,000 changes that are coming in today, the gender pay gap action 100 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,520 plans, they're going to become mandatory in 2027. 101 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:22,800 But as of today, you're encouraging employees to do 102 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:28,320 gender pay gap action plans. And it's for employees who have 103 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,680 over 250 employees. They have to set 1 action that 104 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,280 they will do to reduce the gender pay gap in their 105 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:40,600 organization and to support employees who are experiencing 106 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,840 menopause. How will you hold employees 107 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:45,680 accountable? Thank you. 108 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,400 For business, it's a really important part of, of what we're 109 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,080 looking at for our wider make work pay agenda. 110 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,400 And as you mentioned, the action plans will be voluntary for a 111 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,320 year starting from this April to give employers that time to 112 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,200 understand the new process. And we'll cover the menopause 113 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,520 support as well as the gender pay gap with really, really 114 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,560 crucial issues that we need to address. 115 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,120 So we really encourage employers to participate in the, in the 116 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,120 voluntary year. And I will of course be 117 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,640 assessing as much as possible the impact and, and the take up 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,240 of employers, because while we of course want to hold them to 119 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,720 count, we want them to employees to feel accountable and 120 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,160 empowered to take that action that will lead to sustainable 121 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,800 change in their workplaces and beyond too. 122 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,000 So it's making sure that it's as meaningful as possible and long 123 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,160 lasting in workplaces. And whether you know, it's 124 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,440 looking at the action plans being published and visible to 125 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,400 everyone so they can be held accountable in that way. 126 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,480 And just see what actions we can take over time as we assess 127 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,000 their impact. And the take up will be a really 128 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,760 important stage and part of this too. 129 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,120 Will the Fair Work Agency be involved in that? 130 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,000 So they will be checking that employees are publishing those 131 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,000 action plans. In the immediate term when we 132 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,600 set up the Fair Work agency and from this month, obviously 133 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,720 bringing, bringing together those 3 enforcement bodies, 134 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,160 looking at the existing remits and responsibilities to make a 135 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,360 smooth process for, for those three agencies coming into one. 136 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,320 But there's loads of the potential for the agency in 137 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,680 terms of enforcement, working with employers that they're 138 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,520 aware of legislation and guidance across all different 139 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,840 aspects of the new policies we're introducing. 140 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,360 So we'll be working with them really closely and they're 141 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,240 obviously really keen to work with businesses to comply with 142 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,080 law and make sure that they are working as close to the guidance 143 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,160 and seeking that support if, if they need it. 144 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,960 If this is a new policy for people, for example, with with 145 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,440 the gender pay gaps and all the support that we want them to 146 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,320 provide with the menopause. So there's lots of potential for 147 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,960 the agency to further support employers as it sort of becomes 148 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,760 a bit more cemented of the the coming months and years bringing 149 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,960 those agencies together. But I think it's such a 150 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,040 brilliant opportunity to better provide that guidance and 151 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,400 clarity to employees and employers, particularly for for 152 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,560 action plans like this as well. Right. 153 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,360 Great. Thank you. 154 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,560 Let's have a look at some of the changes that commute because 155 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,120 there was so much happening with this act. 156 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,800 I am hugely supportive of it, have campaigned hard for like 7 157 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,840 of the different changes that are coming in. 158 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,600 And so, yeah, there's. So there's a lot and the key 159 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,440 ones that we want to talk about because of our audience. 160 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,800 The stronger flexible working rights, enhanced redundancy 161 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,320 protection is for pregnant workers and those returning from 162 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,680 parental leave, miscarriage leave, restrictions on the use 163 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:37,240 of Ndas and then to exploitative 0 hour contracts and extending 164 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,880 the tribunal time limit from three months to six months so 165 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,040 that you have a longer period to raise a tribunal claim from the 166 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,280 point that discrimination occurs. 167 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,200 That was actually the law that sculpted me when I experienced 168 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,600 pregnancy discrimination. All of those changes that they 169 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,160 can be in place by April 2027, is that the deadline or is it 170 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,720 later in 2027? So we've got the road map for 171 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,040 all these different policies on the government website that 172 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,520 lists all the changes that are coming in from this year to 173 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,640 next. So we've really provided that 174 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,360 clarity to employers, but employees as well abound when 175 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,760 these rights will come in. But there's lots of obviously 176 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,200 loads of changes that are coming in. 177 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,560 Statues to pay from April, a flexible working which we're 178 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,640 currently consulting on to the end of April. 179 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,160 I'm really, really keen to hear as many reflections and insights 180 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,600 to those and we can pick that up to Ndas sort of consulting as 181 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,560 soon as we can and then introducing that giving, giving 182 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,760 people time really to to make sure they can process and 183 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,360 understand the legislation before they introduce. 184 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,600 So they're all quite staged and staggered and really encourage 185 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,520 people to check out our road map on our website and it can list 186 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,720 all the current consultations that are coming up as well. 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,480 So it's really clear how you can get involved and share your 188 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,400 experiences and share that legislation too. 189 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:54,800 Brilliant. Yeah. 190 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,000 And please do do that people keep your eye on that is this is 191 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,680 a really once in a lifetime opportunity to have your say on 192 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,240 laws that will impact you and work. 193 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,640 When I was at pregnant then screed we did do some 194 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,160 campaigning on non disclosure agreements alongside the woman 195 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,640 sells Elder Perkins, who I'm sure you know, And we found that 196 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,640 about half a million women had signed non disclosure agreements 197 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,560 due to pregnancy or maternity discrimination, which is a 198 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,520 significant number. And it was really damaging their 199 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,400 mental health because not only had they experienced this really 200 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,280 overt discrimination, there were then in silence. 201 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,000 I'm talking about it to anybody else. 202 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,520 And that was really damaging for them. 203 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,080 We'll obviously haven't done the consultation on this. 204 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,160 And I do appreciate that there's still a way to go before this is 205 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,440 written into legislation and the detail is finalized. 206 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,560 Do you expect that these changes will ensure that non disclosure 207 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:56,040 agreements can't be used to hide and bury cases of discrimination 208 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,600 and harassment? Well, I want to start off by 209 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,480 saying thank you to all your campaigning work and on so many 210 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,600 parts of this legislation, but know how important this is to 211 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,880 you and that, you know, being able to work with people like 212 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,640 Zelda who are just incredible forces of nature has been such a 213 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,520 privilege. And as my colleague Lou here in 214 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,520 Parliament, who's kind of been championing this and working 215 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,600 really closely with Zelda. So I'm really delighted that 216 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,400 it's a focus of the act and will be a really, really important 217 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,680 bit of legislation when it comes in, you know, where they've used 218 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:30,200 by employers to silence worker subjected to harassment and 219 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,440 discrimination and how we can ensure that we can stop victims 220 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,400 from suffering in silence. And I've heard so many instances 221 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,240 and circumstances that people have been through. 222 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,400 And we do know as part of this in some circumstances that some 223 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 people who, who have suffered harassment and discrimination 224 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,520 might want that confidentiality as well. 225 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,360 And we won't want to take that away. 226 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,520 But that's why the consultation is, is really important seeking 227 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,160 those those views, those different cases and experiences 228 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,320 where Ndas between an employer and a worker about harassment or 229 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,160 discrimination are still valid and conditions they must meet. 230 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,880 And obviously the list of individuals as well that that 231 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,360 workers who choose sign these Ndas will be allowed to speak 232 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:10,600 to. So the consultation is looking 233 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,080 at all those things. But I suppose to your point 234 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:20,280 around backdated and, and once the Ndas become unenforceable, 235 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,040 but kind of we expect to happen and I suppose they're already 236 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,680 quite limited reasons why a court might find an NDA as 237 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,680 unenforceable, for example, whistleblowing or of covering up 238 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:34,600 a crime. And as you said, the, the 239 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,600 measures that we're bringing in won't be retrospective, although 240 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,400 there could still be those various reasons and you know it, 241 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,680 it wouldn't be right for me to say or suggest what could happen 242 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,280 if someone breaks a historic NDA. 243 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,400 And we'd always encourage anyone to get legal advice first, of 244 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,360 course, but we really do believe in the action of protecting 245 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,480 workers against the misuse of Ndas and where they're being 246 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,600 used to, to cover up relevant harassment and discrimination. 247 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,920 And that's, you know, it's a really, really important part of 248 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,200 the act and legislation coming forwards. 249 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,760 And, you know, we want to make sure that people do have a 250 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,880 greater say when they want that confidentiality and know how 251 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,120 important that is. And if they do that, better 252 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,200 understanding of of what they're agreeing to as well. 253 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,440 So we'll be working really closely obviously and yourselves 254 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,120 Zelda, amazing campaigners in this space through the 255 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,600 development consultation and make sure we are capturing all 256 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,440 of that before we do bring in specifics of the legislation. 257 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Great. OK, Thank you. 258 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,080 Yeah, I mean, we, I get so many questions from people saying 259 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,280 when this new law comes in, does it mean I'll be able to break my 260 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,520 NDA? So as you're saying, really 261 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,640 definitely get legal advice before you consider doing that 262 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:47,440 because the law will not be retrospective, flexible working, 263 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,320 big thing amongst parents and changes that you're bringing in 264 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,560 I think are great and will make a really, really big difference. 265 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,440 The consultation is open at the moment. 266 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,640 Please do go complete the consultation. 267 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,280 It closes on the 30th of April. Could you give us again, you're 268 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,840 obviously consulting so you haven't crossed the T's and 269 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,160 dotted the IS yet. Could you give us a broad 270 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,000 outline of what these you expect this law to achieve? 271 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,760 So we really want to give people the chance to fit work and 272 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,320 family life, personal circumstances, people's health 273 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,400 conditions, caring responsibilities, parents with 274 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,040 young children, greater flexibility when it comes to 275 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,240 work. You know, the world of work is 276 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,880 transformed and people's expectations and way of working 277 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,720 has to, and you know, it's only right that legislation keeps 278 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,880 pace with that and particularly for flexible working. 279 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,320 And we know how much it can ultimately change people's lives 280 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,520 when it's done properly and when they have that understanding 281 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,640 with their employer. So that's why we want to 282 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,960 introduce these changes that will require employees to accept 283 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,240 flexible working requests unless it's not reasonably feasible. 284 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,400 So that's what we're consulting on, introducing a, what we're 285 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,480 calling a reasonables, A reasonableness test, which means 286 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,160 that if an employer rejects a request, I'll need to have a 287 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,440 good explanation as to why that's reasonable. 288 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,880 So as you say, that consultation is, is underway on the reforms 289 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,920 until the 30th of April. So please, everyone who's 290 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,280 listening, get involved. And these changes will take 291 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,520 place next year too. And it switches it on its head, 292 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:19,440 doesn't it? I mean, what? 293 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,200 The previous changes to flexible working laws have simply moved 294 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,160 the time at which you can request flexible working, but 295 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:27,880 it's still very easy to reject it. 296 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,280 But this will turn things on its head so that it's actually 297 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,880 harder for an employer to reject a request than it is to just 298 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,400 say, yeah, OK, that works because they're going to have to 299 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,840 document in writing exactly why, as you said, it doesn't fit the 300 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,160 reasonable test. And that then could be used 301 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,040 potentially in an employment tribunal if the person that is 302 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,680 in receipt of the rejection thinks that that hasn't followed 303 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,800 the reasonable test. So it's, I think the I really do 304 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,120 feel that this will strengthen people's rights and give them 305 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,360 much that many more people will have flexible working requests 306 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,520 accepted as a result. So thank you for bringing that, 307 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,040 Lauren, thank you for working on it. 308 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,880 Please everybody, go and fill in the consultation redundancy 309 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,760 protections. Again, something that I worked 310 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,680 on for years. You have recently completed the 311 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,840 consultation on enhanced redundancy protections for those 312 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,520 who are pregnant and those who have recently returned from 313 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,320 work. I'm sure you haven't gone 314 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,960 through all of the responses yet and don't have it all finalised, 315 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,720 but what these laws will do is strengthen those rights so it is 316 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,840 harder to make somebody redundant or push them out of 317 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,720 their job during that phase pregnancy until about 6 months 318 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,120 after they return from work. What I suppose I really want to 319 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,880 understand is how will you measure the impact of that new 320 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,360 law? How will you know that it's 321 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,880 working? Another great question. 322 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,520 Thank you. And yeah, really, really 323 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,120 important piece of of legislation area. 324 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,800 And you're right, we closed that consultation earlier this year 325 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,920 on the 15th of January. I think we had nearly 900 326 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,640 responses which was brilliant. And thank you to everybody that 327 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,680 shared their experiences and views of of how they want this 328 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,839 legislation to work and and out. And we're currently working 329 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,240 through all of those. I suppose through the policy, 330 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,000 what we want to see in terms of how we measure success is a 331 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,760 decrease in the number of dismissals, a decrease in the 332 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:32,320 incidence of pregnancy and maternity discrimination as 333 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,480 well, and improved employment rates for pregnant women and 334 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,080 mothers. And if we get all those right, I 335 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,240 think that is successive of this policy. 336 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,800 And you know, when you hear what the experiences and stories that 337 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,920 come through the consultation to the women that that I've met and 338 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,600 the charities and organisations and campaigners in this space. 339 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,160 And I know you can again, so much too. 340 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,840 And thank you. We do really want to protect 341 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,480 this cohort who are uniquely vulnerable and at the same time 342 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,520 ensuring that they continue to to be hired in the workplace and 343 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,640 do get those opportunities. So we're currently working 344 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,520 through all of all of the responses that we receive that 345 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,480 reflect really varied experiences to make sure that no 346 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:20,440 matter what that this this group are protected in the workplace 347 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,600 and and do have those enhanced, enhanced rights when we look to 348 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,760 dismissal. But that we continue to make 349 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,400 sure that they get those opportunities in the workplace 350 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,320 as well. So and we'll hopefully be able 351 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,800 to say more in due course when we work for all the responses 352 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,880 and we get through the fine details of the policy. 353 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,680 I mean, the our, the rights for those who are pregnant and those 354 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,600 who recently returned in the UK are far weaker than they are in 355 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,640 the rest of Europe. So it's really great that you're 356 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,840 strengthening these laws. The last government didn't do 357 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,640 any research on what was happening in terms of pregnancy 358 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,040 and maternity discrimination. The last bit of good research 359 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:05,600 that we have on this is from 2015 when the Equality and Human 360 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,800 Rights Commission were commissioned to, to, to look at 361 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,560 this issue. And they found that the number 362 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,800 of women pushed out there just for getting pregnant or taking 363 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,880 maternity leave is 54,000 women a year, which is a woman every 364 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,680 10 minutes in the UK. It's like one in nine pregnant 365 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,280 women that get pushed out of their jobs and 77% of working 366 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,400 mums encounter some form of discrimination. 367 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,280 And because we didn't have any more research since 2015, which 368 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,880 is obviously a very long time ago now, we did it ourselves 369 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,920 when I was at pregnant and screened and it was really good 370 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,360 data. 25,000 people responded to the survey and we had, we made 371 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,080 the data nationally representative. 372 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,280 So it was good quality research and we found that it increased 373 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,080 again to 74,000 women every year. 374 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,960 And when I'm asked why that is, I say, well, it's because very 375 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,040 little has changed in the last 10 years. 376 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,440 There's no, the last government did very little to strengthen 377 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,280 our rights despite knowing this was a massive issue. 378 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,080 I believe these new rights will start to reduce pregnancy, 379 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,160 maternity discrimination. And we asked the Prime Minister 380 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,640 when we interviewed him whether. There will be a commitment from 381 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,240 the government to track that and to evidence what is actually 382 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,160 happening to women in the workforce. 383 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,160 Can you also say that that will be something the government will 384 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,760 commit to when? We look at this this policy or 385 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,400 the legislation in the act of all have the reviews, you know, 386 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,320 over a number of years to make sure we can measure the impact 387 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,640 and effectiveness of them. And absolutely this is this is 388 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,600 not in that book of policy and how we review the effectiveness 389 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,800 of it and ultimately the impact it's had and has delivered the 390 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,680 intended policy change that we wanted it to. 391 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,000 And so, yes. Brilliant. 392 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:49,720 OK, good, yay. Right. 393 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,400 And let's move on to the parental leave review and 394 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,760 potentially, which is something Elliot and I are kind of 395 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,680 obsessed with just. A little bit. 396 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,840 Just tiny bit. Lots of people are. 397 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,320 It is a much anticipated review is really again it's probably I 398 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,320 would say the last opportunity we have potentially to improve 399 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,520 our parental leave rights in the UK. 400 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,360 Elliot and I both campaigned for six weeks pertain to live at 90% 401 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,960 of salary for a number of years. Some research that I did with 402 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,840 the Centre for Progressive Policy found that if we if we 403 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,520 were to do this, it would decrease the gender pay gap by 404 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,280 4%. And the Joseph Roundtree 405 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,160 Foundation estimates that it could add 2.6 billion pounds to 406 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,000 the wider economy. And evidence from countries with 407 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,360 more generous paternity leave show the really clear benefits. 408 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:54,920 It reduces the motherhood penalty, better maternal mental 409 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,080 and physical health, stronger relationships, improve child 410 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,320 development and higher life satisfaction for fathers. 411 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,840 So the benefits are just enormous and it pulls really 412 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,160 well across the spectrum no matter who you vote for. 413 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,240 It polls really well as something that the British 414 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:18,000 public would really like to see given all of the evidence. 415 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,520 And I know that you're still doing the review, which is due 416 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,720 to conclude in 20 early 2027. How likely is it do you think 417 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,720 that that your government will increase potential leave and 418 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,320 pay? Really glad we're getting to 419 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,200 this topic and the question, but it's one that, as you can 420 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,360 imagine, I am asked about a significant amount on in terms 421 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,000 of the direction of the review and how important it is and how 422 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,640 welcome it is by charities, campaigners, organizations who 423 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,800 have been who have long been campaigning for changes to the 424 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,840 system. And really recognize it's not 425 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,280 been looked at as a whole for a, for a long period of time, which 426 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,400 is why we're taking this year to, to really digest all the 427 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,480 different apps from, from different organizations. 428 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,960 Everything you've just alluded to in terms of the impacts that 429 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,720 surely that the various policies could have in terms of our 430 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,040 labour market, for our economy, for people getting into work and 431 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,320 ultimately their finances and the wider economic impacts of, 432 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,400 of so many different aspects of the parental leave and peer 433 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,440 review. My colleagues in Parliament are 434 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,920 also really, really passionate and, and so glad that the 435 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,880 government is leading on this. And so it's a, it's a real 436 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,320 opportunity and we completely understand the challenges that 437 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,400 many parents face when trying to balance their lives at work and 438 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,480 at home. And we're on the side of working 439 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,760 people. And I want going through all the 440 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,400 different policies we're doing because. 441 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,040 But we know that the parental leave system does need to be 442 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,840 reviewed, including maternity pay. 443 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:44,080 So that's why this review is really important. 444 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,800 In addition to what we've announced today with the unpaid 445 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,560 side of things straight away is well, what we what we're doing 446 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,280 about the wider system and on pay. 447 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,520 And I really do hear that. And here the desire for us to to 448 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,040 move at pace on this because it's just not being looked at 449 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,640 for such a significant amount of time. 450 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,200 So it's been really brilliant to have so much engagement in this 451 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,240 review. And obviously there is so much 452 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,000 scope when we're looking at all the different entitlements. 453 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,560 And to be really honest with you, even when I'm out with my 454 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,960 non political mayors, this is the part of my job that most 455 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,200 excited about and and engage with and hold me to account to. 456 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,200 So there's absolutely no escape in this. 457 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,960 And you mentioned it Paul as well. 458 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,200 And it just, it's someone, you know, everybody interacts with 459 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,080 this system as at somewhere stage in their lives or their 460 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,640 family friends have. So we do really, really 461 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,400 understand the need to improve and paternity leave and pay. 462 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,480 And This is why it's such a good opportunity for us and we want 463 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 to get it right. Yeah, I think it will be huge. 464 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,200 I speak to dads everyday who they really struggle. 465 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,360 They go through this massive, massive life change. 466 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,240 They have a couple of weeks off, sometimes that's in hospital, 467 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,880 sometimes their parents had AC section and literally go back to 468 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,280 work like nothing's changed. And it's really, really 469 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,600 difficult. I think this would be a 470 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,640 transformational change to the lives of families. 471 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080 And how much is the government looking at what's going on 472 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,960 overseas? You know, in in Spain, 17 weeks 473 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,920 for pay, Norway 15 weeks 100% pay benefits across the economy 474 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,280 to well-being of parents of children through this review is 475 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,240 is the government looking at that best practice and what we 476 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,880 can take from that. Yes, absolutely. 477 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,360 The officials of department are working flat out on all the 478 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,720 evidence that we're hearing from from so many people, reflections 479 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,600 of experiences abroad too. And you mentioned a couple 480 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,240 earlier and to to colleagues in the house and conversations I'm 481 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480 having, you know, we are really kind of taking that step back 482 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,000 and looking at best practice elsewhere and the impact and, 483 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,000 and sort of ultimately how it's change the system and people's 484 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,840 lives in in different and areas of the world. 485 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,920 So yeah, we're really, really looking at as broad a scope as 486 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,760 possible. And I think that's why it is so 487 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,080 exciting because that's not been done on such a scale before. 488 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,040 Well, for a long time, anyway. And I think self-employed dads 489 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,320 are really important in this too and that's part of the review. 490 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,640 I'm a self-employed dad myself and when my second came along, 491 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,400 it was basically taking, taking unpaid leave and then losing 492 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,960 money because I'm not working as well. 493 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,720 And so many dads, self-employed dads just don't take any leave. 494 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,480 They literally go back to work straight away. 495 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,280 Yeah. So how much is? 496 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,360 Is that a part of the review that you're considering? 497 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,040 Yeah. So they're absolutely in scope 498 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,160 of the parental leaving and pay review and really recognise your 499 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,200 well, your personal experience of, of the system and the impact 500 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,560 it's had on you and your pay. And prior to becoming a member 501 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,880 of Parliament, I worked for a trade union called community. 502 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,600 We had lots of self-employed and freelance members of the union. 503 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,040 And they also, they always express their circumstances and 504 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,040 so their desire of what they wanted to see in a safety net. 505 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,840 So it's something I'm really alive and conscious to in terms 506 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,760 of that, that lack of support. And that's why they are in scope 507 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,000 of of the review and and to the impact and experiences 508 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,720 self-employed mums as well with maternity allowance to keep in 509 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,640 touch today is really recognize the experiences that the wider 510 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,040 self-employed workforce face in the parental leave and and pay 511 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,840 system. And I think that's why it is 512 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,600 important that they are including this. 513 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,560 The University of Bath did some research which finds that 514 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,360 including self-employed in paternity provisions could add 3 515 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:32,840 billion per year to the economy. And the JRF calculated how much 516 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,760 it would cost to include the self-employed in paternity 517 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,560 provisions and they found it was 18.9 million a year. 518 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,880 So it feels like the economics on this does make sense, 519 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,520 including the self-employed and paternity provisions. 520 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,760 And of course you've seen the campaigns recently from kinship 521 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,120 carers because I mean completely excluded from pet, the parental 522 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:01,320 leave system, which seems really unfair considering they saved 523 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,280 the government £4 billion per year. 524 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,360 I have a friend who's a kinship carer and she's had to leave her 525 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,000 job because it's just become so difficult and now they're in a 526 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,120 real mess financially. So again, you know, 527 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,960 self-employed carers, that the system really locks so many 528 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,120 people out of it talking about mothers because we have a lot of 529 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:31,080 mothers who listen to the podcast, particularly mothers of 530 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,840 sons like me. Statutory maternity pay is now 531 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,920 worth less than half the minimum wage. 532 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Think it adds up to about 499 an hour when you were you break it 533 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,080 down and 3/4 of mothers rely on debt just to get through 534 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,200 maternity leave. I'm sure you will know that cost 535 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:56,040 is cited as the main reason why women are not having children, 536 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,920 why we have a bit the baby crisis we came. 537 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,640 We've seen the birth rate drop significantly and that poses a 538 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,680 risk for our future economy. Do you think it's also time we 539 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,160 increase maternity pay? Really understand the concerns 540 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,040 around maternity pay and the parental leave review will will 541 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,120 consider this and as you can imagine we have had lots of 542 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,520 representations from mothers themselves to charities and 543 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,520 organizations that are campaign for change in this space. 544 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,840 So absolutely understand the concerns and the review is 545 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,840 considering it for the for that reason. 546 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,560 And in the meantime, obviously whilst we're considering all the 547 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,720 different stages and forms of the review and the run up to 548 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,880 next year, we'll be able to hopefully announce our vision 549 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,240 and changes. Really want to reduce those 550 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,000 wider cost pressures on mums and on families. 551 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,840 And you'll know, lots of work that's happened across across 552 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,680 government on that, as well as the increase in labour market 553 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,080 participation, lots of it covered in the Employment Rights 554 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,160 Act of how we rebalance that flexibility and security. 555 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,680 And also removing the barriers to take time off work, which 556 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,680 we've, we've touched on a bit in this podcast as well. 557 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,400 But just to really recognize the concerns. 558 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,560 And whilst we're looking at in the review in the meantime, it's 559 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,280 not. So we're not doing anything else 560 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,960 to alleviate those pressures their families and mums 561 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,040 absolutely face. But we know there's obviously 562 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,120 always so much more we can do to to make sure that we can get 563 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,680 more money back into people's pockets and they do feel better 564 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:26,960 off. And we're committed and 565 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,680 determined to working on that day in, day out across 566 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,840 government too. Lovely. 567 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,320 Thank you. And then my final question. 568 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,720 There is a change that we could bring in that won't cost 569 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,040 anything. That seems really obvious to me. 570 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,120 And it's actually something that Jo Swinson campaigned on when 571 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,200 she was an MP, Jo Swinson from Liberal Democrats, for anybody 572 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,920 that doesn't know who I mean by JoJo Swinson, I'm sure you will 573 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,640 do. But and, and we now have a 574 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,120 petition out on this. What do you think about making 575 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,280 it mandatory for employers to publish their parental leave 576 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,120 policies online? Because if we did that, I feel 577 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:09,480 that it would mean people would start to improve their parental 578 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,280 leave policies because they will be in competition with other 579 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,840 employees for the best employees. 580 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,400 And it seems like such a small thing that we could do that 581 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040 doesn't cost anything, but could have a really significant impact 582 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,680 on working families across the country. 583 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,600 So the, the ACT I suppose, takes those, those first steps towards 584 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,920 requiring those large employers to, to publish action plans 585 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,680 detailing the steps to taking to narrow the gender pay gap 586 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,880 alongside their gender pay gap figures. 587 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,480 And we've talked a bit about the action plans as well. 588 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000 They'll be voluntary from this month to, to next year. 589 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,880 And those encouraging compliance and, and everything that we want 590 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,120 to see in terms of the opportunity that presents for 591 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,960 organisations to be much more transparent. 592 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,040 And I think that also presents a real opportunity to encourage 593 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,120 organisations to be more transparent about their parental 594 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,640 leave and and pay policies to workplace flexibility and the 595 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,280 broader pay and progression practices that they have. 596 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,280 So I always encourage businesses to be more transparent about 597 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,440 their parental leave policies in the meantime and want them to 598 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,960 feel empowered to publish this information as soon as they can. 599 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,880 And that should be the norm. You know that increased 600 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,080 transparency will benefit everybody, employers, the 601 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,640 current employees, those looking for work, so they can really 602 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,720 understand different policies that organisations offer that 603 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,640 can be part of, but they're looking for a particular job and 604 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,760 if that works for them. But also how we can drive up 605 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,560 standards as well with businesses. 606 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,440 And we talk about this a lot with the ACT, lots of the 607 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,880 policies we're introducing at a level that playing field. 608 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,760 So good businesses who are already going above and beyond 609 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,800 in terms of what the Employment Rights Act delivers aren't 610 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,120 undercut by those who don't play by the same rules. 611 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,000 And but actually when you look to initiatives like this, how it 612 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,320 can really level up that playing field and make sure those 613 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,200 brilliant businesses who do go above and beyond and people know 614 00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,960 about their policies and commit that decision. 615 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,840 But that increased transparency can only help that and help 616 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,360 businesses as a whole too. We definitely encourage that 617 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,160 from the from businesses to be to be more transparent and look 618 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,640 how we can progress those particular action plans too. 619 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,680 Will this not be part of the parental leave review? 620 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,800 We've heard it come come quite a lot from businesses who kind of 621 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,040 want to demonstrate the impact that it's had if they had do 622 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,440 have that transparency and kind of the progression that they've 623 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,200 seen. So it definitely has has come 624 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,440 through the evidence we've heard and when we're having 625 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,760 conversations with them as well. So it could, it could be 626 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,760 something when you conclude the review and you say the changes 627 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,000 that the government is prepared to make off the back of that 628 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,240 review. It could be something that could 629 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,440 that would be put forward as this is one of the things we're 630 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,080 going to do. We're going to make it mandatory 631 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,480 for parental parental leave policies to be published online. 632 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,840 Yeah, we've been, we've been quite specific when we've sort 633 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,960 of launched the terms of reference of exactly what the 634 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,400 review is looking at. But you know, when other things 635 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,240 have cropped up or best practice and evidence from employers 636 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,640 about really encouraging that label market participation. 637 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,760 And if they do have those brilliant policies in the 638 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,719 workplaces, you know that evidence base feeds into my 639 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,280 wider work as well around lab market participation, the role 640 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,840 of businesses and employers and enabling that flexibility and 641 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,560 security at work. So it absolutely will play a 642 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,560 part in that evidence base and the future vision of workplaces 643 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,639 that we want to see and people's experience of it, no matter 644 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,120 where they are in this country or the size of the employee 645 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,800 would work for it. Absolutely just feed into that. 646 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,320 If anybody has any evidence on that, if anybody would like to 647 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,480 make a suggestion on how that work or how that's impacted 648 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,000 their company, what would how would they do that? 649 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,159 So I mean, I meet with businesses quite regularly and 650 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:51,800 always really keen to hear those different experiences too. 651 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,960 If they want to kind of formally feed in, if they haven't already 652 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,400 to the review. We're really keen to hear from 653 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,080 them and put them in touch with, with our brilliant team here are 654 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,320 working flat out on our on our wider review. 655 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,760 So do feel free to get in touch or directly with their Member of 656 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,360 Parliament as well. Have had had lots of 657 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,320 representations from MPs across the House who are really 658 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,040 interested in this and hear those direct experiences for 659 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,040 businesses and their constituency and their 660 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,280 constituents as well. So please do engage with with 661 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,560 those processes and and with parliamentary colleagues too. 662 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,080 Brilliant, lovely kinship carers are but also currently excluded 663 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,720 from our parental leave system, which seems just so unfair 664 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,440 considering they saved the government over £4 billion per 665 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,640 year. What? 666 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,040 What are your thoughts on kinship carers and where they 667 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,680 sit within the parental leave review? 668 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,640 The. Kinship carers are just 669 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:48,840 incredible and, you know, they do such amazing work and that's 670 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,080 why they're, you know, considered as part of the 671 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,760 parental leave and pay review because we recognize that 672 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680 they're currently not supported in the system. 673 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,640 And, you know, I've met with kinship carers here in 674 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,680 Parliament, but in my own constituency recently in my 675 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,120 surgery and met a kinship carer who had an experience where she 676 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,720 had to give up her job and her circumstances changed her. 677 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,840 She had an impact on her relationship and her her wider 678 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,800 network. And she wouldn't change any of 679 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,800 that for the world because it's a, it's a responsibility that 680 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,560 she's taken so seriously and has changed her life for the better. 681 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,200 But it has absolutely impacted her. 682 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,040 And she shared her experiences with me and that similar 683 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,440 experiences, the case for lots of kinship carers across the 684 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,560 country. And that's why it's right that 685 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,160 we look at the support available to them. 686 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,520 My colleagues in the Education department are doing lots of 687 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,880 this already, trials in different areas to ensure that 688 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,320 they can sort of have that better support in terms of 689 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,440 payments. But when it comes to the wider 690 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,120 system for parental leave and pay, we really want to make sure 691 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,960 that their experiences are a key part of it. 692 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,440 And that's why they are in scope and just want to say thank you 693 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,520 to them. And they're, they're an amazing 694 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,920 force of nature. Lovely. 695 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,760 That's so, that's so good to hear. 696 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,880 Thank you. I'm sure that, you know, that 697 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,240 will be hugely appreciated because they definitely feel 698 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,120 very ignored and they do such an important job, don't they? 699 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,560 They really do thank you have covered. 700 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,920 Laws So thank you so much. It's been really great to 701 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,520 chapter all. And yeah, really nice to meet 702 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,760 you as well. And we're really excited about 703 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,560 all the changes that are coming up and about the parental leave 704 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,120 review I'm sure would be the last you hear from Elliot and I 705 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,160 hope. Not.