This episode is supported by Movember, the leading charity
changing the face of Men's Health.
Welcome back to To Be a Boy podcast of me, Elliot Ray.
And me, Jolie. Brayley.
And today we're joined by Gavin Morgan, Co CEO of Growing
Together, Auk charity, doing remarkable work supporting young
people to develop confidence, empathy and a sense of purpose.
Gavin has spent more than two decades working with vulnerable
young people, and through that, he's seen the challenges many
boys face today, from struggling with identity and belonging to
navigating the pressures of modern masculinity.
Growing together, Gavin and his team run innovative mentoring
programs where teenagers are paired with younger children in
nurseries, creating powerful opportunities for
responsibility, connection, and personal growth.
So in this conversation, we'll explore what boys really need to
thrive, the role of positive male role models, why
responsibility and purpose matter so much in adolescence,
and how communities can better support the next generation of
young men. Welcome to the podcast, Gavin.
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Lovely to be here. So when I told my wife about
what your company does, she said, oh, that's so cute.
And I can imagine that's the response you get from everyone.
You paired teenagers who are going through their own issues
of mental health with toddlers with additional needs.
And I like that is that's amazing.
That sounds that sounds so amazing.
So talk to us about like the work you do, how it works and
what it aims to achieve. Yeah, thank you so much for a
lovely introduction. And yeah, it's the, it's the
ability to give young people a new opportunity as a springboard
to the rest of their lives. So what we find is so our our
work is held within positive and transpersonal psychology.
So I think that's really good to name upfront.
It's about unconditional positive regard.
It's about bifocal vision. So no matter what it's bubbling
here. We're always holding to the
higher potential, just the amazing human being that
everyone is. They might not see it in
themselves, but it's always there and it's always present.
So we use coaching as a really key tool to, to be curious about
people. And that's, that's the simple
version of it. The the detail of it is we go to
schools and we invite them to identify teenagers who are
struggling. We think they are the most
deserving for this program. They're the ones using a risk
criteria or an eligibility tool that we use also helps us for
our funders. And it's identifying teenagers
who are having difficulties at school, difficulties at home
with their peers, with life, with the pressures that society,
culture, you know, puts them through.
And what we say to them is you're just amazing the way you
are. And you're going to believe it
yourself. Because often they're healing.
They're they're having that sense of lack or sense of
disbelief in their own lives or even worst case scenarios,
people are projecting that onto them or they're not good enough,
etcetera, etcetera. We see that so often.
So what happens is the schools identify 8 young people, I mean,
but usually 15 will take them through 2 cohorts in the year of
school. But what will happen is they go
through recruitment session. So we tell a little bit about
the program and it's their choice.
It has to be their choice. That's the the first buy in.
And if they want to go ahead, they'll sign all the paperwork
and the consents and they'll come along and we'll do an
induction and then they'll start mentoring a child in nursery or
primary school. The nursery of primary school
have also identified those children who they think could
really benefit because they maybe got their own social
communication challenges. And I'll share a little story
later about one in particular. And that comes to mind.
And what happens is over 16 weeks, these teenagers, they get
down to the same level of eye, eye level as the as the children
and they play with them. You might read them a book, they
might do some curriculum work in school, but ultimately they are
mentor and for the child, but they're also a classroom
assistant. They're volunteering in a, in a
different environment. And one of the reasons we think
it's really powerful is these teenagers who might be
struggling at school are getting out of their secondary school to
into the community to a primary or nursery school.
And they have to take on that responsibility.
We often ask them, why did you come to this program when you're
not always going to school? And they often say, I don't want
to let the child down if I don't turn up, that little child is
waiting for them and they're not there.
And I think that lived experience that anchor a real
life experience of mentoring or volunteering, supporting helps
teenagers to to have something they can hold onto because so
many of them come back to us years later.
Go. That was one of the most
significant moments in my life. I remember it.
They'll give the facilitators hugs years later.
And it's the relationship, isn't it?
Everything about us as human beings is relational.
So when teenagers who don't think they're worth anything can
realize they are through helping another, it's amazing.
So one of the key questions we we hold is what if one of the
keys to saving a generation and helping young people transform
is to give them someone or something to care about.
So they go through the program, they come out the other end,
they do a portfolio, they get a qualification that holds them
well, especially if they're not doing much at school.
But more so is the CV, the skills, the the testimonials
from the school teachers that they can use to put to develop
their positive pathways into the next steps of their life.
So it's a lifting, it's an opportunity to open a new door
for them to new pollen. I want my son to do this.
Sounds amazing, isn't it? Yeah, there's just something
about that sense of responsibility.
Isn't that Jamilia Jamil saying the other day that this isn't
tested and it's just something he's experienced?
But but boys, her favorite men tend to be men who had mothers
who were sick when they were younger because they had to look
after them. So they had to care properly for
somebody they loved and cared about.
And it just seems to have she said that, you know, there just
seems to be that thread running through her life of men that
anyway, interesting. Sorry, Gavin.
No, you're absolutely right because we're often trying to do
things to teenagers, you know, so what's beautiful with this
program, but about so many amazing projects and programs
that happen all over the UK is and for for us, it's it's
mentoring in reverse. It's not necessarily adults
mentoring the teenagers. It's us going to the teenagers
exactly where they are in the moment of life and say you're
more than enough. You've got some great
experiences and you can help these children and actually that
reversed mentoring. There's something very powerful
about how you're taking them. It's two sets of vulnerable
children and young people and teenagers are just that little
bit further along the life cycle than the children.
They're not, they're not the adults, they're not the parents,
they're not the teachers. There's something the children
do by looking up, going, you're not that far away from me, maybe
I could be like you in the future.
It's beautiful. Yeah, it's a this is actually
like, it's blowing my mind. It's something that is, I guess
on paper, so simple, but it is so heart warming to know it
exists and I think it's got massive potential and it's
incredible. It's incredible.
What kind of change do you see in the young people when they're
given that opportunity to spend time with those toddlers?
How do you see them change and develop now they've got that
sense of responsibility and caring for someone else?
Yeah. And, and we often use the word
trans transformative or transformation, but, but also
it's important to know like just a simple smile that's on a
teenager that wasn't there before can be transformational.
And we're seeing 23 to 25% increase in mental health.
We're seeing their their positive growth mindset
increasing. We're seeing 93% of them going
on to positive destinations. Let's be really, really clear.
It's not about anyone charity, it's not about anyone thing.
It's about the holistic whole family well-being, all, all of
the support around that teenager or that child that gets in
there. So it's really important that
we're partnering. We're helping them to understand
they can move on to other projects as well.
But through the projects they're coming.
I think the reality is they're coming at a time in their life
when they don't want, they might not want to be at school, they
might not be going to school, they might be going to school
but not going to class, or they might be going to class that the
teachers are recognizing they could really benefit.
Whether it's an adverse childhood experiences, social,
emotional, behavioural needs, they're having difficulties at
home, they're bringing, they're bringing their sense of self
that's forming at a time in their life when the neural
pathways in their brains can change.
You know, so actually by mentoring for 16 weeks, they're
learning something new about themselves and giving something
to others. So yes, they are coming in
feeling alone, they're feeling depressed, they might be feeling
anger, they might be feeling, you know, we know there's, you
know, that whole suicidal ideation, the difficulties that
teenagers are going through their life and we're not over
focusing on that. We're asking them to focus on
the child. And I think that re framing of
where they are gives them that sense of self and what we did.
And also the group work that we do either side of the mentoring
is, is group work with their peers.
And often they're coming in not wanting to talk, you know, like
they're sitting going, Oh, and actually over the weeks we use,
we use something that's called CNC.
So we're not just saying you're amazing.
We're not just saying, oh, you're wonderful.
We're using observation. So we're saying, I noticed today
that you got down to the child's eye level and they were really
struggling. But, but I saw how you overcame
that. And over the weeks you can see
them leaning in wanting more of that genuine praise and that
genuine observation. They're feeding off it.
But not only that, you get to a place where not not in all
cases, but in many cases, the group will self regulate
themselves. They'll start praising each
other, they'll give them the feedback, and there's just
something about that community that forms within those eight
teenagers at a time when none of them necessarily were talking to
each other at the beginning, towards the end, they're so
proud, not only themselves, but each other.
This is absolutely fascinating, Gavin.
I'm loving every second of what you're saying.
Could you could you give us a story, tell us a story about a
young person, a teenager that's been through this program and
what's happened to them? Like, give us a give us a real
human experience. Yeah, so we have a boy and who
really struggling in school and finding it difficult at home,
but just really not finding a sense of place within school and
feeling depressed and feeling not not a great friendship
group, for example. And struggling with his own
identity and how he struggles with studying and school work
and the pressures of life. And so he gets paired with a
child in the nursery school. And this nursery child is a
selected mute. It's a little boy who's not
talking. His mum and his dad are really,
really worried. They're, they're, you know,
they're trying everything they can.
They're doing it right. And this little boy isn't really
speaking much outside of the home and the nursery staff are
doing everything they can to support and doing great work.
And you know what it took, It took a teenager, a teenager
struggling in their own life to get emotional to get down to
that level. And they just started playing
games. They didn't, it wasn't British
Sign Language, it was just they were communicating in a fun,
playful way. And over the weeks that and that
little boy started talking to him, then to his peers and
parents and the teachers were so happy.
They were really like, wow, it's amazing.
And yes, it was the school, it was the teachers, it's the
support around them. But yes, it was also this
teenager who probably didn't realize the impact he was having
because he was just going through his own things for this
little boy and nursery thriving and speaking much more and more
commonly. And the teenager receiving
praise and thanks and the parents coming back saying,
look, thank you, you don't know what you've done.
This really helped. And so this this teenage boy
realizes he has so much more to give and actually decides to
look at a career in early and to courage to, you know, so that
kind of thing. I mean, our program isn't
specifically about a career pathway, naturally is, but those
that are interested. And it's a lovely example of
someone who came along and not sure of themselves, but actually
through finding they can help someone else.
They find more in themselves than they had before.
Wow. I mean, what a story.
And there's there's so many tangible benefits to A to a
program like this, as you have articulated as well, because, I
mean, we're, we're desperate to get more that men into caring
roles because they're so female dominated.
And that again, is not good for role modelling for young boys.
They don't often have role models suck up to we know that
one in three primary schools don't have a male teacher and
childcare is like 98% women. So, you know, obviously that's
not why you're doing it, but to see that it also had that impact
is is absolutely incredible. Absolutely.
And it's interesting because that's not what we focus on, but
maybe we should maybe with, with the wider local authorities and
the schools, we should, we should think about that as a
next step. Because you're right, there is
something about changing how we change and support society.
And we know that more male influences are different.
It is do help boys. They do help in becoming men.
So that we, we know from the, the primary schools and the
nursery schools how beneficial has been having more boys on the
program. So it's both the boys and girls.
It's both, you know, a nice mix and, and it's interesting.
We use and we use different sort of well-being scales and mental
health scales. And we do pre and post
evaluation. And what we find is and the
statistics, the improvement is always really strong in the
females, but it's even stronger in the males.
They're getting something else out of this beyond and also the
nurseries are really, really appreciating more meals coming
in and reading them stories, playing outdoors in the in the
playground or inside or doing a bit of curriculum work.
And it challenges the teenagers who are maybe not that strong in
their literacy, their mathematics, you know, and
actually pushes them and, and encourages them to think about,
wow, I can't do this. And it helps them.
Then when we go back to the teachers in the secondary
school, they're saying they're seeing a difference because
they're seeing them academically be more willing to to to go into
this, ask for help and be honest.
And they're willing to think about their aspirations for the
future, which might just be part of the anchor for them to do
something now that will help them move forward as well.
So they're seeing a future, whereas before they were just
trying to survive. Yeah.
I'll hand back to Elliot. Why do you think you see more of
an improvement with the boys? So we're seeing their mental
health really improving. We're seeing there's something
around connection, There's something around where, you
know, if we, if we think about, we've often recognizing society
sort of for, for boys, for males, that emotional
intelligence, that sharing that softer side and can sometimes
the stigma that's attached to that sometimes.
And it's harder for boys to open up to, but actually being in a
group of both males and females within their peer group allows
them to share the experiences. And yes, let again, it's very
slow at the beginning. They're not sure, they're not
safe, they don't feel comfortable sharing through the
shared experience of the mentoring the children, they're
beginning to open up a little bit more.
They're gaining feedback. We're using coaching to ask them
why do you think that worked? What might be do differently?
And they're, they're really realizing that they've got a lot
more insight themselves at a time when females as well as
nails. But in terms of boys, they're
often so fixated on the external world that actually we often
don't nourish or are undernourished in our insight in
our internal world. And there's something about them
feeling proud about being reflective, about sharing what's
going well, what's not, gives them the space to just grow and
strengthen. And yes, some of them, they
still have a very strong outer in outer mask that they wear
because that's the way they survive through through society.
But there's something inside of them that grows.
So in terms of psychological preparedness, their sense of
identity is becoming stronger because of the work they do.
So this program helps that because it strengthens their
positive growth mindset. I feel like going to spend this
whole podcast saying this is amazing, this is incredible.
That's just the word for the podcast.
This is amazing. I guess what you're saying there
in regards to like the inner self, We have a lot of
conversations about boys and I feel like a lot of it is about
their own sense of where they fit into the world externally
and body image and, and, and muscles and money and everything
else. But you're talking about the
internal work, the how, how do I feel about myself?
And I feel like we've, we, we missed that a lot actually with
young people and maybe with young boys, we think they don't
need so much of that internal work that they're not soft and
gentle when they need support and kindness and kind words.
And I think what you're doing in terms of building community
around that is, is incredible. I want to kind of zone out a
little bit and talk about the boys that come into your
programs. What are some of the big things
that you would say they are dealing with?
Like what are the main issues they are like coming to to
growing together with? Yeah, I mean, it's and it's such
a wide variety and you know, but but it speaks to so much what's
going on in boys lives at the moment.
So yeah, some of them are very depressed, some of them are very
feeling isolated. Some of them may not have strong
friendship groups. They may have, you know,
difficulties at home, struggling at school, bullying and, or, or
being a bully, you know, as well and feeling excluded.
Poverty comes in in a big way that's sort of linked to
well-being from not having much and, and, and maybe being on
free school meals. And some of them are care
experience. So they're in through the care
system, care and protection system.
And we've got young people that and actually things are OK.
Things are not too bad. They're, they're, they're not,
they're, they're OK, But actually this, this could be
uplifting them and give them something else to do.
So we always work really closely with the schools to identify the
most deserving young people who are struggling.
And the schools, the guidance team themselves, really think
about the, the dynamics of the group that they would work well.
And so sometimes we, we're taking on a really lovely group
that are just struggling in different ways.
And this really helps them with them and experience.
Sometimes we're taking young people that have got social work
intervention, they're really struggling.
They're they're not even coming to school.
And this is a way to help them be lies that there's other ways
and to try things and as a bridge back into academic
aspirations and coming back to school.
And I think, you know, self harm is definitely there.
And I think and suicidal thoughts or ideation is
definitely there. There's anger.
There is a feeling lost, feeling unheard, you know, really not
being listened to. And I think that's something
that we hear from boys a lot and from everyone.
You know, the more we're heard and listened to that that really
does have an impact. And so, yeah, there's a wide
variety of teenagers that come to us.
The boys are bringing their own stuff with them and they may not
share it all. But maybe at some point they
will. And, and we often find just
through that small group working of eight young people together,
mentoring the children. But in the in the group space
they're in afterwards with a debriefing and they do a session
around different areas that might be around what's working
in school, what's not, what's working in, in family and, and
community and not, and what's your aspirations for the future.
They just begin to open up a little bit more about who they
are and I think that bringing that level of authenticity or
honesty and however they share that is really helps strengthen
their sense of self. You mentioned there a lot of the
boys feel unseen and unheard, like you've been doing this work
for a couple of decades now. Do you feel like that has
increased that sense of feeling unheard, or are we just hearing
about it more? I actually don't know our is it
that we're just shining a spotlight on it and it's more
it's more prevalent than that sense.
Is it because I think COVID wasn't a good example of a
signpost where it did two things.
It recognized where there was a lack, where there was fear of
of, you know, there was lack of trust, there was worrying, there
was loneliness, but yet on the other side, communities come
together, they helped each other, they really valid round.
So there's sort of an interesting moment in time to
use that as a how do we move forward from building community
ourselves? I'm really interested in your
thoughts on community government because I mean, we obviously
we've just had the documentary Lou 3 documentary The
Manosphere. And I saw somebody talking
online about how you can't beat the manosphere with debate.
That's never going to work because actually ultimately boys
are gravitating towards this type of content for community.
It's not even necessarily that they agree with what these
people are saying is just that they desperately need community
and that gives them a sense of that.
And once they have a taste for community, they just want more
of it because they're so devoid of real connection.
And what you're doing is creating real connection.
Do you think we we've just lost the ability really to properly
connect a particularly young people and do you think that's
to do with screens? Do you think like I'd love to
know a bit more about your sorts on community?
Yeah, and it ties in really well.
We have a second program that was created by young people who
went to a nursery program who said we want to do something
else with going together. And so they created with the
community and with consultation they created a new social action
project. So we give them a wee budget and
they go and ask the, the community, what do you need?
What project would help benefit? And then they generally it's an
after schools activity. They'll, they'll create a
project that will help their community.
And it links to what you're seeing there about that sense of
belonging or the lack of belonging, that sense of
connectedness within a community.
So there's, there's, there's moments where an an elderly
person will cross the road not to walk past a group of
teenagers. You know, that that step, that
stereotype where I said those teenagers could be amazing human
beings who may be misunderstood. And I remember in a rites of
this is a story from a rites of passage program and where two
boys were coming together who who from many years ago hated
each other, had been in fights. And as they got closer, the
anger was rising and rising and rising just to this point here
where they both realized they were wearing a, a necklace and a
medallion or a it was a little tooth.
And in that moment, they both realized they'd done the same
program. I mean, and although it wasn't
the same time, there was a sense of connection.
There was a sense of sheer. And everything changed.
They smiled and they walked past each other.
And you know, there's something about being heard and seeing
that that we can do more of. I'm always conscious that we're
going to sort of positive mind go set.
We can ask questions that take us down deficit most There's
something about asking the questions that will take us
forward. So what can we do now given
where we are learning from the past to do something moving
forward? And I love coaching questions
because you can just be curious. And I think one of the senses
that we get is for boys, especially for girls, and for
boys and boys in particular in this case, they're often not
heard because that sort of sense of active listening is often
missing. So we know, you know, from a
new, from a neurological point of view, as someone is answering
a question you've asked, you're already thinking of the next
question you're about to ask, you know, in in a general sense.
So how do we become present, Bree?
Bring presents. So we know that when we sit in
front of young people and our facilitators are fully present
with them, young people can feel that they feel the difference
when you're really there, You know, when you show up for
someone, but it's your friend, your family, you know, a boy,
they can tell when you're genuine and a bit authentic.
You know that you're you care that you want to be there, that
you closed everything off. And I think there's something
about presence of it coming back to really hearing people not
trying to change and not trying to answer the question, just
hear what they have to say. And that's the first step.
We're probably moving forward. Yeah, and that that community is
so important. That example you've given there
around the two boys having more in common, doing the same
programme definitely relate to that.
I think in the days of youth clubs it really helps boys from
different estates have some sort of shared experience And so they
when they went off into school and got older, they may be on
opposing sides and they may have started fighting.
But actually I know him because I played football with him or I
did music with him or there's something that we did when we
were 11 years old that connects us.
I remember in my area, I was lucky enough to have an amazing
childminder and her son was quite well known in the area and
he had a gang and I was protected because my childminder
son, I used to go to to a house and spend time with him.
And so we knew each other and so I didn't get beaten up, which
was quite nice. But let's talk about a little
bit about like the mental health crisis.
We know there's a mental health crisis going on in, in the UK
amongst young people. You're at the front line of
this. You see this every, every day.
What does it look like on the ground?
We hear the statistics, we we see the headlines.
What does it look like from your perspective?
What are you seeing in the young people right now?
Yeah, I think as I said earlier, I think one of the things we're
seeing is that sense of that sense of lack of self, that
sense of depression. So really feeling depressed.
There could be anger, there could be lack of friendship
groups. And we're seeing mental health
really, and you know, really young people really struggling
with the mental health. And yet also when you ask them
what tools do you have, you're the ones that can come up with
solutions to helping this. I think Julie, you said
something earlier that's and so the Internet and sat on cyber,
cyber bullying. So lots of people are using the
Internet as their one of their biggest social arenas.
And that can be both a really positive thing.
It can also be quite detrimental to them.
And so we how we support that. I think we are seeing people
with suicidal thoughts really, even if it's just at self harm
stage. But you know, you're seeing that
and we do, you know, we do see young people that are disclosing
information that we pass back on so that you get the support they
need. And because there may be in this
safe space feeling OK or ready to share something you've not
wanted to share before. And it's important about getting
the right support on that child protection and safeguarding sort
of approach and to helping them. But some of them are just
feeling lost. Some of them don't feel that any
sense of hope. There's the whole whether that's
ecological crisis that we're really seeing within Internet
social media. A lot of, a lot of the, a lot of
young people are saying they're having to deal with what's
coming to them from this point of view from the external world.
And we're maybe they're not strengthening the foundations
within themselves, which is why I think talking and sharing and
and doing things together is really important.
There's times when a question we often hold is like other times
when you're thinking is holding you back from action.
You know, there's, there's times when is there action that's
holding me back from doing more thinking.
There's something about reframing a story.
We often live our life with the story we've created.
But we can, we can change that story.
And actually you can help especially teenagers when
they've gone through the 1st formative years of their lives.
You can also choose to create a new story about themselves.
Join a football club, do something different, as Elliott
said, new groups of friends. And there's lots of Good Hope
now. It's always a balance between
recognizing things that aren't working, but also recognizing
lots of solutions already in our communities and in our society
we can do. And I think it starts from
presence, talking, sharing, working out what they need,
helping them understand they've got the answers inside of
themselves. It's not often out here, it's
often out here. And that's hard.
That's hard for people that have no connection with themselves
because they do want to be part of a gang.
They do want to be part of, you know, whichever gang that isn't
where they're formed. And, and it's interesting, you
know, we worked with, and one of my previous roles working a lot
with them, young people who have care experience into the care
system. You know, a lot of them join the
army. You know, there's a lot of
statistics to show that a lot of them re offend and want to go
back into prison because there's the sense of belonging, the
safety, the community, the connection there.
So how do we help people in society to find new senses of
connections and belonging in a really positive way that can
strengthen our communities? It's definitely a question to
hold. For parents that are listening
to this, that have a teenager that's struggling, what would
you, what would you say to them to for them to be able to help
their teenager? Would you say they should ask
their teenager what to do and how to help them?
And they should, you know, try and get the teenagers to come up
with the solutions themselves? Or is there other advice you
would give them? That's a great question.
And you know, being a dad myself, and I don't think I
always get it right. You can ask my that's my
children. And but I think there's
something about those moments where I've not felt presents,
they're talking to me and I'm just half there and that's
natural. We're all just trying to get on
with life. But there's also something
important about being able to just stop and sit down and go,
Hey, how are you doing? And we all we all approach
supporting our our with our children, you know, in the best
way we can. We're all we're often stressed
as parents. So it's recognizing that.
And actually there's something about being honest of saying, I
am so sorry I've not been present with you.
Can we start again? How's your day?
What's going on? And I think it's about being
curious about them. And sometimes you don't get
much. I'm all right, I'm off.
That's OK. It's the small, isn't that the
small winds? But there may just be moments
when they do want to talk to you, and that's the moment to
just sort of open up and say, hey, you can come to me at any
time. Let's chat things through.
And I think, yeah, advice. One thing we got some great
feedback from parents on our nursery major program who they
realized that the program helped the sickening relationships so
that the boys were coming back from the nursery program and
actually having a better relationship with their brothers
and sisters because they were so and that's really interesting.
So changing perspectives gives them something that affects them
back at home. For parents, curiosity, asking
them questions. I often try and do the third
person approach, which is, hey, if you had a friend like you
that was struggling in this, what advice might you give them,
for example? So it's taking out themselves to
them, thinking about sort of deep personalizing, whatever.
And often they can come up with solutions better than than I
can. And that we can because they
know themselves well. And but I think it's connection,
relationship, curiosity. Do you think there's also
something though, about giving kids responsibilities, like
giving, you know, I do think sometimes with my son that I'm
mollycoddle him a bit and that actually I want to, you know,
really I should get him down the pit work and I'm checking.
But you know, I really I should give him way more
responsibilities than I do and that that would be really good
for him. Do you think there's something
that's come out of your program that shows giving teenagers real
responsibilities that are meaningful, helps them grow and
helps their mental health? Yeah, and we hear it from them.
We've got, I've just been looking through loads of quotes
from young people recently and often a lot of them say I was
nervous, I didn't want to do it, I didn't think it was going to
be good enough. I wanted to walk away after the
first week, you know, etcetera. But actually we're putting them
in a, a really important position of authority, a
position of, of responsibility. They're wearing name tags.
They're not allowed to have their mobile phones because they
know there's a child protection reason for not having mobile
phones at nursery. You know, they are recognizing
that they have to change their behaviour and modulate their
communication. Squealing is not allowed, you
know, you know, so it's them really realizing that there's
certain and we call them non negotiables and group
agreements. So it's the things that they
need to, to agree to, to, to go into the program and continue.
And you're right, giving them that responsibility.
And I think we can do more of that.
And because they are capable, they are able to grow with that.
And yes, they might struggle, but we shouldn't stop too early
in that struggle. That's maybe just the door
that's opening to the what's going to emerge through this,
this challenging time, because we often see when you fall down,
pick yourself up and brush yourself off.
But there's so much truth in that isn't no, it's like keep on
keeping on through the hard times.
Yes, good to have support around you.
And I think you're absolutely right.
Giving teenagers especially more responsibility to to help us is
probably the key to changing our to changing our society.
Yeah, amazing. I'm getting my 10 year old a job
tomorrow. No, but seriously, I would love
her to do this program. And I have seen when we have
given her a responsibility, how much.
And I do feel like we underestimate young people
sometimes, and they can do so much more than we give them
credit for. So yeah, I think what you're
doing is actually absolutely incredible.
So you've worked with thousands of young people over the years.
Let's end with some hope. What gives you hope about the
next generation of boys? Yeah.
So we're, we're just, I think we're just over 3000 teenagers
and children in our programs, which is fantastic in our
nursery and engine programs. And what gives me hope is if we
as adults are willing to get down to the teenagers and say,
do you know what we've taken? We've got society to this place
and there's some really good things and there's some not good
things. How will you help us make this
world a better place and actively, as as Julie was
saying, give them that responsibility and ask them to
help us change things. I think, I think we've for good
reasons, done a lot of really good interventions to support
teenagers and that's needed. And at the other side, it's
something about giving them the responsibility help us to make
this world a better place. If we've got issues with
teenagers in inner cities, how do we deal with that?
You know, what could we do? And they'll come up with great
solutions. They need maybe extra guidance
or ideas and suggestions to hold that.
But often they'll come up and I think we are in a really
positive place. We are going through, you know,
societally, social media globally, you know, there's so
many things that you can focus on and a really negative or
would really draw it down. And, and I think it's the way I
often see it as a downward spiral.
It's so easy just to catch that one thing that just drops us
down and down and down. And I think there's something
important about the whole the faith, the trust, but actually
action and good thinking that helps us move forward.
So positive growth mindset is about believing in yourself and
believing that you can create your life.
You're not you're you're either a victim or you're a Co creator.
And yes, there will always be moments when we feel a victim to
things that happens in our life. Are we going to be held to that
for the rest of our lives or are we going to do something about
it? And that's something you'd just
be getting outside and going for a job, joining a football club,
a swimming club, doing something in the community.
I think, I think it was something that Julie said
earlier, it feels like we are. There's more lights being shown
on a lot of issues around society at moment.
And I think that's to help us clear the way of what we're
going to do to make the world a better place, to make our
communities about those. So, yeah, we need trust.
We can trust our teenagers and they feel that they will step
up. It's the program across the UK,
Gavin, is it? It's, it's, it's not across the
UK. We're currently in Scotland.
We went to Education Scotland and piloted in Highland Council.
We then moved into Murray and into Aberdeen City Council.
And we often hear teachers and parents going, why isn't this
across the country? And yeah.
And there is lots of amazing mentoring that happened.
So it's not to take away in any way.
I, I was a youth worker and, and had had different sets of
mentoring programs before. The thing I think that makes
this unique is we, we hold it within the container of
causative and transpersonal psychology with coaching.
So using coaching as that method to really explore yourself and
help others. And so there's great stuff
happening. We'd love to yeah, we'd love to
grow it because it actually isn't about us is going
together. So we also train up the teachers
or youth workers to Co deliver with us and then eventually go
independent. We'll still hold that sort of an
evaluation and that quality assurance, the sort of the
program in that sense to to grow and learn from it.
But if we can train more people up to run it themselves, then we
can go into more schools and communities and and grow it.
So there is a Movember, you know, global men's health
charity, huge supporters of ours were really good for all their
support. They helped us really take up
more boys into the program and learn from that.
And then they helped with looking at scaling what works.
So really looking at how we would grow that sustainability
model. So love to see it grow at the
right moment, the right time. And yeah, who knows what the
future holds. Yeah, I mean, I feel like the UK
government should know about this and know about the research
and the insight that you've gathered and the benefits of it
because it is, it seems to me that they should be exist in
every school. We should have programs like
this. I wonder if for parents
listening, how could they? And they are listening and
thinking, I want this in my school.
I want this when my kid goes to school to help some of the
children there. What would how can they support
you? How can they find you?
And how could they support your work?
Yeah, I mean, so they can get in touch with us and on our
websites www.growingtogetherand.org.uk.
So growing together, GROWING the number 2 and then gather GETHER
so growing together and get in touch with us because if the
school was interested and we could have our parents were
interested, we could have a chat and see what we might be able to
do together and we are yeah, we're I think you're right.
There's something about UK government sort of taking eye
lines going how what innovative programs are out there and early
intervention to two sets of vulnerable children and
teenagers and because. It almost shouldn't work taking
two sets of vulnerable teenagers and children, but that's why it
works, because they're both struggling and actually they're
helping each other. And the children are the
greatest gift to the teenagers. And the teenagers may or may not
realize that that is one of the secrets for the teenagers,
realizing they are not unable to help the children.
Children are helping them to see more about themselves.
It is simple if you hold it well, the containers there to
really help them, help them to grow and actually the schools
are phenomenal, the teachers getting behind it, the parents
that see the benefit of it and the wider impact to get to the
community. So yeah, always came to grow.
Gavin, you have blown our minds. I have loved hearing from you.
I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible and I
think throughout the conversation you've dropped some
gems for people, for parents, helped people with practical
ideas about what they can do with their children, the point
about connection and getting down to their level and being
present, all those things that we can do.
So you've been amazing, Gavin, thank you so much.
We really appreciate you. Before we go, you were talking
about where you live. You you live in somewhere really
interesting. Talk to us about that a little
for a second. I live I live in the northeast
of Scotland and so I live in a small town called Forest, but
the next door to this beautiful and ecological community called
Finton. So Eco Park Finton.
It used to be known as the Finton Foundation and that
people in the 60s were gravitating towards becoming a
community themselves. Very diverse beliefs respecting
diversity of religion and spirituality and the, the sort
of permiculture and ecological sustainability element was
really, really key to that. So the community is growing and
flourishing in lots of different ways.
And if you're ever up this neck of the weeds, come and visit.
There's some really cool, like I call them Hobbit, Hobbit houses
with grass going on top and, and some, some really old caravans
to really modern day Swedish style eco houses.
And, and they've got their windmills and to get electricity
and they're trying to be more off grade through their own
food. So it's just a lovely example
that happens across many different communities of trying
to be more sustainable and from an ecological perspective, but
also how they live together, how they share and just trying to
create, learn from the past to live in the moment.
That sounds like exactly what we need right now.
Live with you Gavin and you have kids to do your programme so I
hope you medley. Come on out.
Yeah, we've got an extension. Gavin, you've been incredible.
Thank you so, so much, Gavin. Everyone round of applause.