1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,880 This episode is supported by Movember, the leading charity 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,160 changing the face of Men's Health. 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,160 Welcome back to To Be a Boy podcast of me, Elliot Ray. 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,000 And me, Jolie. Brayley. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,600 And today we're joined by Gavin Morgan, Co CEO of Growing 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,720 Together, Auk charity, doing remarkable work supporting young 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,680 people to develop confidence, empathy and a sense of purpose. 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,680 Gavin has spent more than two decades working with vulnerable 9 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,360 young people, and through that, he's seen the challenges many 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,200 boys face today, from struggling with identity and belonging to 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,600 navigating the pressures of modern masculinity. 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,520 Growing together, Gavin and his team run innovative mentoring 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,640 programs where teenagers are paired with younger children in 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,440 nurseries, creating powerful opportunities for 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,760 responsibility, connection, and personal growth. 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,960 So in this conversation, we'll explore what boys really need to 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,240 thrive, the role of positive male role models, why 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,880 responsibility and purpose matter so much in adolescence, 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,600 and how communities can better support the next generation of 20 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,160 young men. Welcome to the podcast, Gavin. 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:13,920 Hey, thanks so much for having me. 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,520 Lovely to be here. So when I told my wife about 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,840 what your company does, she said, oh, that's so cute. 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,840 And I can imagine that's the response you get from everyone. 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,080 You paired teenagers who are going through their own issues 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,640 of mental health with toddlers with additional needs. 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,840 And I like that is that's amazing. 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,800 That sounds that sounds so amazing. 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,840 So talk to us about like the work you do, how it works and 30 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,120 what it aims to achieve. Yeah, thank you so much for a 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,000 lovely introduction. And yeah, it's the, it's the 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,880 ability to give young people a new opportunity as a springboard 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,640 to the rest of their lives. So what we find is so our our 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,400 work is held within positive and transpersonal psychology. 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,280 So I think that's really good to name upfront. 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,960 It's about unconditional positive regard. 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,000 It's about bifocal vision. So no matter what it's bubbling 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,680 here. We're always holding to the 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,800 higher potential, just the amazing human being that 40 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,560 everyone is. They might not see it in 41 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,920 themselves, but it's always there and it's always present. 42 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,160 So we use coaching as a really key tool to, to be curious about 43 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,360 people. And that's, that's the simple 44 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,680 version of it. The the detail of it is we go to 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,840 schools and we invite them to identify teenagers who are 46 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,320 struggling. We think they are the most 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,600 deserving for this program. They're the ones using a risk 48 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,120 criteria or an eligibility tool that we use also helps us for 49 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,640 our funders. And it's identifying teenagers 50 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,160 who are having difficulties at school, difficulties at home 51 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,480 with their peers, with life, with the pressures that society, 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,480 culture, you know, puts them through. 53 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,160 And what we say to them is you're just amazing the way you 54 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,680 are. And you're going to believe it 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,240 yourself. Because often they're healing. 56 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,440 They're they're having that sense of lack or sense of 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,000 disbelief in their own lives or even worst case scenarios, 58 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,920 people are projecting that onto them or they're not good enough, 59 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:18,760 etcetera, etcetera. We see that so often. 60 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,080 So what happens is the schools identify 8 young people, I mean, 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,520 but usually 15 will take them through 2 cohorts in the year of 62 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,520 school. But what will happen is they go 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,320 through recruitment session. So we tell a little bit about 64 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,280 the program and it's their choice. 65 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,520 It has to be their choice. That's the the first buy in. 66 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,480 And if they want to go ahead, they'll sign all the paperwork 67 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,280 and the consents and they'll come along and we'll do an 68 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,240 induction and then they'll start mentoring a child in nursery or 69 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,680 primary school. The nursery of primary school 70 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,320 have also identified those children who they think could 71 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,400 really benefit because they maybe got their own social 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,080 communication challenges. And I'll share a little story 73 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,880 later about one in particular. And that comes to mind. 74 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,400 And what happens is over 16 weeks, these teenagers, they get 75 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,120 down to the same level of eye, eye level as the as the children 76 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,360 and they play with them. You might read them a book, they 77 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 might do some curriculum work in school, but ultimately they are 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,720 mentor and for the child, but they're also a classroom 79 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,640 assistant. They're volunteering in a, in a 80 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,080 different environment. And one of the reasons we think 81 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,840 it's really powerful is these teenagers who might be 82 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:31,320 struggling at school are getting out of their secondary school to 83 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,000 into the community to a primary or nursery school. 84 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,440 And they have to take on that responsibility. 85 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,080 We often ask them, why did you come to this program when you're 86 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,400 not always going to school? And they often say, I don't want 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,880 to let the child down if I don't turn up, that little child is 88 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,920 waiting for them and they're not there. 89 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,640 And I think that lived experience that anchor a real 90 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,280 life experience of mentoring or volunteering, supporting helps 91 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:59,960 teenagers to to have something they can hold onto because so 92 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:01,560 many of them come back to us years later. 93 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Go. That was one of the most 94 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,280 significant moments in my life. I remember it. 95 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,960 They'll give the facilitators hugs years later. 96 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,520 And it's the relationship, isn't it? 97 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:12,760 Everything about us as human beings is relational. 98 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,080 So when teenagers who don't think they're worth anything can 99 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,280 realize they are through helping another, it's amazing. 100 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:24,200 So one of the key questions we we hold is what if one of the 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,400 keys to saving a generation and helping young people transform 102 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,000 is to give them someone or something to care about. 103 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,440 So they go through the program, they come out the other end, 104 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,320 they do a portfolio, they get a qualification that holds them 105 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,520 well, especially if they're not doing much at school. 106 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:46,680 But more so is the CV, the skills, the the testimonials 107 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,560 from the school teachers that they can use to put to develop 108 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,440 their positive pathways into the next steps of their life. 109 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,800 So it's a lifting, it's an opportunity to open a new door 110 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,840 for them to new pollen. I want my son to do this. 111 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,120 Sounds amazing, isn't it? Yeah, there's just something 112 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,000 about that sense of responsibility. 113 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,240 Isn't that Jamilia Jamil saying the other day that this isn't 114 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,720 tested and it's just something he's experienced? 115 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:19,080 But but boys, her favorite men tend to be men who had mothers 116 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,040 who were sick when they were younger because they had to look 117 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,280 after them. So they had to care properly for 118 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:27,120 somebody they loved and cared about. 119 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,520 And it just seems to have she said that, you know, there just 120 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,560 seems to be that thread running through her life of men that 121 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,520 anyway, interesting. Sorry, Gavin. 122 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,720 No, you're absolutely right because we're often trying to do 123 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,400 things to teenagers, you know, so what's beautiful with this 124 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,920 program, but about so many amazing projects and programs 125 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,800 that happen all over the UK is and for for us, it's it's 126 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,680 mentoring in reverse. It's not necessarily adults 127 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,440 mentoring the teenagers. It's us going to the teenagers 128 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,960 exactly where they are in the moment of life and say you're 129 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,840 more than enough. You've got some great 130 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:04,440 experiences and you can help these children and actually that 131 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,360 reversed mentoring. There's something very powerful 132 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,640 about how you're taking them. It's two sets of vulnerable 133 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,680 children and young people and teenagers are just that little 134 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,800 bit further along the life cycle than the children. 135 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,920 They're not, they're not the adults, they're not the parents, 136 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,120 they're not the teachers. There's something the children 137 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,040 do by looking up, going, you're not that far away from me, maybe 138 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,480 I could be like you in the future. 139 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,120 It's beautiful. Yeah, it's a this is actually 140 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,360 like, it's blowing my mind. It's something that is, I guess 141 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,120 on paper, so simple, but it is so heart warming to know it 142 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,680 exists and I think it's got massive potential and it's 143 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,320 incredible. It's incredible. 144 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,080 What kind of change do you see in the young people when they're 145 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,400 given that opportunity to spend time with those toddlers? 146 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,440 How do you see them change and develop now they've got that 147 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,800 sense of responsibility and caring for someone else? 148 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,160 Yeah. And, and we often use the word 149 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,960 trans transformative or transformation, but, but also 150 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,080 it's important to know like just a simple smile that's on a 151 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,120 teenager that wasn't there before can be transformational. 152 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,200 And we're seeing 23 to 25% increase in mental health. 153 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,080 We're seeing their their positive growth mindset 154 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,680 increasing. We're seeing 93% of them going 155 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,480 on to positive destinations. Let's be really, really clear. 156 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,000 It's not about anyone charity, it's not about anyone thing. 157 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,520 It's about the holistic whole family well-being, all, all of 158 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,760 the support around that teenager or that child that gets in 159 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,520 there. So it's really important that 160 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,360 we're partnering. We're helping them to understand 161 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,039 they can move on to other projects as well. 162 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,039 But through the projects they're coming. 163 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,799 I think the reality is they're coming at a time in their life 164 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,800 when they don't want, they might not want to be at school, they 165 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,800 might not be going to school, they might be going to school 166 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,400 but not going to class, or they might be going to class that the 167 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,720 teachers are recognizing they could really benefit. 168 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,080 Whether it's an adverse childhood experiences, social, 169 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,720 emotional, behavioural needs, they're having difficulties at 170 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,560 home, they're bringing, they're bringing their sense of self 171 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,360 that's forming at a time in their life when the neural 172 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,520 pathways in their brains can change. 173 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,320 You know, so actually by mentoring for 16 weeks, they're 174 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 learning something new about themselves and giving something 175 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,440 to others. So yes, they are coming in 176 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,800 feeling alone, they're feeling depressed, they might be feeling 177 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640 anger, they might be feeling, you know, we know there's, you 178 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,800 know, that whole suicidal ideation, the difficulties that 179 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,800 teenagers are going through their life and we're not over 180 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,240 focusing on that. We're asking them to focus on 181 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,200 the child. And I think that re framing of 182 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,000 where they are gives them that sense of self and what we did. 183 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,520 And also the group work that we do either side of the mentoring 184 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,800 is, is group work with their peers. 185 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,240 And often they're coming in not wanting to talk, you know, like 186 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,320 they're sitting going, Oh, and actually over the weeks we use, 187 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,480 we use something that's called CNC. 188 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,840 So we're not just saying you're amazing. 189 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,400 We're not just saying, oh, you're wonderful. 190 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,000 We're using observation. So we're saying, I noticed today 191 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,640 that you got down to the child's eye level and they were really 192 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,240 struggling. But, but I saw how you overcame 193 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,520 that. And over the weeks you can see 194 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,960 them leaning in wanting more of that genuine praise and that 195 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,160 genuine observation. They're feeding off it. 196 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,160 But not only that, you get to a place where not not in all 197 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920 cases, but in many cases, the group will self regulate 198 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,040 themselves. They'll start praising each 199 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,720 other, they'll give them the feedback, and there's just 200 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,320 something about that community that forms within those eight 201 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,160 teenagers at a time when none of them necessarily were talking to 202 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,760 each other at the beginning, towards the end, they're so 203 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,320 proud, not only themselves, but each other. 204 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,920 This is absolutely fascinating, Gavin. 205 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,680 I'm loving every second of what you're saying. 206 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,720 Could you could you give us a story, tell us a story about a 207 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,440 young person, a teenager that's been through this program and 208 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,840 what's happened to them? Like, give us a give us a real 209 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,800 human experience. Yeah, so we have a boy and who 210 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,280 really struggling in school and finding it difficult at home, 211 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,120 but just really not finding a sense of place within school and 212 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,280 feeling depressed and feeling not not a great friendship 213 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:13,720 group, for example. And struggling with his own 214 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,360 identity and how he struggles with studying and school work 215 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,680 and the pressures of life. And so he gets paired with a 216 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,440 child in the nursery school. And this nursery child is a 217 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,760 selected mute. It's a little boy who's not 218 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,680 talking. His mum and his dad are really, 219 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,960 really worried. They're, they're, you know, 220 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,320 they're trying everything they can. 221 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,880 They're doing it right. And this little boy isn't really 222 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,080 speaking much outside of the home and the nursery staff are 223 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,520 doing everything they can to support and doing great work. 224 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,280 And you know what it took, It took a teenager, a teenager 225 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,920 struggling in their own life to get emotional to get down to 226 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,600 that level. And they just started playing 227 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,120 games. They didn't, it wasn't British 228 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,880 Sign Language, it was just they were communicating in a fun, 229 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,200 playful way. And over the weeks that and that 230 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,880 little boy started talking to him, then to his peers and 231 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,320 parents and the teachers were so happy. 232 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,880 They were really like, wow, it's amazing. 233 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,480 And yes, it was the school, it was the teachers, it's the 234 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,800 support around them. But yes, it was also this 235 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,440 teenager who probably didn't realize the impact he was having 236 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,040 because he was just going through his own things for this 237 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,360 little boy and nursery thriving and speaking much more and more 238 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,360 commonly. And the teenager receiving 239 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,200 praise and thanks and the parents coming back saying, 240 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,880 look, thank you, you don't know what you've done. 241 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,720 This really helped. And so this this teenage boy 242 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,480 realizes he has so much more to give and actually decides to 243 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,520 look at a career in early and to courage to, you know, so that 244 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:46,920 kind of thing. I mean, our program isn't 245 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,920 specifically about a career pathway, naturally is, but those 246 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,880 that are interested. And it's a lovely example of 247 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:59,320 someone who came along and not sure of themselves, but actually 248 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,760 through finding they can help someone else. 249 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,480 They find more in themselves than they had before. 250 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,960 Wow. I mean, what a story. 251 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,320 And there's there's so many tangible benefits to A to a 252 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,720 program like this, as you have articulated as well, because, I 253 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,400 mean, we're, we're desperate to get more that men into caring 254 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,360 roles because they're so female dominated. 255 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,360 And that again, is not good for role modelling for young boys. 256 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,640 They don't often have role models suck up to we know that 257 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,040 one in three primary schools don't have a male teacher and 258 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,920 childcare is like 98% women. So, you know, obviously that's 259 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,520 not why you're doing it, but to see that it also had that impact 260 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,280 is is absolutely incredible. Absolutely. 261 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,680 And it's interesting because that's not what we focus on, but 262 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,760 maybe we should maybe with, with the wider local authorities and 263 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,480 the schools, we should, we should think about that as a 264 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,120 next step. Because you're right, there is 265 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,360 something about changing how we change and support society. 266 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,360 And we know that more male influences are different. 267 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,760 It is do help boys. They do help in becoming men. 268 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,720 So that we, we know from the, the primary schools and the 269 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,320 nursery schools how beneficial has been having more boys on the 270 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,280 program. So it's both the boys and girls. 271 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,280 It's both, you know, a nice mix and, and it's interesting. 272 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,000 We use and we use different sort of well-being scales and mental 273 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,080 health scales. And we do pre and post 274 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,000 evaluation. And what we find is and the 275 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,520 statistics, the improvement is always really strong in the 276 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,280 females, but it's even stronger in the males. 277 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,480 They're getting something else out of this beyond and also the 278 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,080 nurseries are really, really appreciating more meals coming 279 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,920 in and reading them stories, playing outdoors in the in the 280 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,880 playground or inside or doing a bit of curriculum work. 281 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,440 And it challenges the teenagers who are maybe not that strong in 282 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,400 their literacy, their mathematics, you know, and 283 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,720 actually pushes them and, and encourages them to think about, 284 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,760 wow, I can't do this. And it helps them. 285 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,960 Then when we go back to the teachers in the secondary 286 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,360 school, they're saying they're seeing a difference because 287 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,880 they're seeing them academically be more willing to to to go into 288 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,440 this, ask for help and be honest. 289 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,080 And they're willing to think about their aspirations for the 290 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,640 future, which might just be part of the anchor for them to do 291 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,280 something now that will help them move forward as well. 292 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,280 So they're seeing a future, whereas before they were just 293 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,440 trying to survive. Yeah. 294 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,880 I'll hand back to Elliot. Why do you think you see more of 295 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,160 an improvement with the boys? So we're seeing their mental 296 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,840 health really improving. We're seeing there's something 297 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,520 around connection, There's something around where, you 298 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,200 know, if we, if we think about, we've often recognizing society 299 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,160 sort of for, for boys, for males, that emotional 300 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,280 intelligence, that sharing that softer side and can sometimes 301 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,120 the stigma that's attached to that sometimes. 302 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,400 And it's harder for boys to open up to, but actually being in a 303 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,240 group of both males and females within their peer group allows 304 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,760 them to share the experiences. And yes, let again, it's very 305 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,880 slow at the beginning. They're not sure, they're not 306 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,680 safe, they don't feel comfortable sharing through the 307 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,200 shared experience of the mentoring the children, they're 308 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,880 beginning to open up a little bit more. 309 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,240 They're gaining feedback. We're using coaching to ask them 310 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,120 why do you think that worked? What might be do differently? 311 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,840 And they're, they're really realizing that they've got a lot 312 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:27,040 more insight themselves at a time when females as well as 313 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,480 nails. But in terms of boys, they're 314 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,000 often so fixated on the external world that actually we often 315 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,880 don't nourish or are undernourished in our insight in 316 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,160 our internal world. And there's something about them 317 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,720 feeling proud about being reflective, about sharing what's 318 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,880 going well, what's not, gives them the space to just grow and 319 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,200 strengthen. And yes, some of them, they 320 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,960 still have a very strong outer in outer mask that they wear 321 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,800 because that's the way they survive through through society. 322 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,000 But there's something inside of them that grows. 323 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,599 So in terms of psychological preparedness, their sense of 324 00:17:04,599 --> 00:17:08,240 identity is becoming stronger because of the work they do. 325 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,240 So this program helps that because it strengthens their 326 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,000 positive growth mindset. I feel like going to spend this 327 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,800 whole podcast saying this is amazing, this is incredible. 328 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,520 That's just the word for the podcast. 329 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,880 This is amazing. I guess what you're saying there 330 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,280 in regards to like the inner self, We have a lot of 331 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,480 conversations about boys and I feel like a lot of it is about 332 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,080 their own sense of where they fit into the world externally 333 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,480 and body image and, and, and muscles and money and everything 334 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,720 else. But you're talking about the 335 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,200 internal work, the how, how do I feel about myself? 336 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,440 And I feel like we've, we, we missed that a lot actually with 337 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,440 young people and maybe with young boys, we think they don't 338 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,960 need so much of that internal work that they're not soft and 339 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,000 gentle when they need support and kindness and kind words. 340 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,120 And I think what you're doing in terms of building community 341 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:02,200 around that is, is incredible. I want to kind of zone out a 342 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,840 little bit and talk about the boys that come into your 343 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,680 programs. What are some of the big things 344 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,800 that you would say they are dealing with? 345 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,960 Like what are the main issues they are like coming to to 346 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,520 growing together with? Yeah, I mean, it's and it's such 347 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,640 a wide variety and you know, but but it speaks to so much what's 348 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,240 going on in boys lives at the moment. 349 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,240 So yeah, some of them are very depressed, some of them are very 350 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,440 feeling isolated. Some of them may not have strong 351 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,560 friendship groups. They may have, you know, 352 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,880 difficulties at home, struggling at school, bullying and, or, or 353 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,920 being a bully, you know, as well and feeling excluded. 354 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,840 Poverty comes in in a big way that's sort of linked to 355 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,080 well-being from not having much and, and, and maybe being on 356 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,880 free school meals. And some of them are care 357 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,680 experience. So they're in through the care 358 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,160 system, care and protection system. 359 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:00,800 And we've got young people that and actually things are OK. 360 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,120 Things are not too bad. They're, they're, they're not, 361 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,360 they're, they're OK, But actually this, this could be 362 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,800 uplifting them and give them something else to do. 363 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,640 So we always work really closely with the schools to identify the 364 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,360 most deserving young people who are struggling. 365 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,280 And the schools, the guidance team themselves, really think 366 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,160 about the, the dynamics of the group that they would work well. 367 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,520 And so sometimes we, we're taking on a really lovely group 368 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,120 that are just struggling in different ways. 369 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,000 And this really helps them with them and experience. 370 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,160 Sometimes we're taking young people that have got social work 371 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,400 intervention, they're really struggling. 372 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,520 They're they're not even coming to school. 373 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,000 And this is a way to help them be lies that there's other ways 374 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,160 and to try things and as a bridge back into academic 375 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,640 aspirations and coming back to school. 376 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,640 And I think, you know, self harm is definitely there. 377 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,520 And I think and suicidal thoughts or ideation is 378 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,440 definitely there. There's anger. 379 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:01,360 There is a feeling lost, feeling unheard, you know, really not 380 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,280 being listened to. And I think that's something 381 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,120 that we hear from boys a lot and from everyone. 382 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,280 You know, the more we're heard and listened to that that really 383 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,440 does have an impact. And so, yeah, there's a wide 384 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,200 variety of teenagers that come to us. 385 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,640 The boys are bringing their own stuff with them and they may not 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,960 share it all. But maybe at some point they 387 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,080 will. And, and we often find just 388 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,400 through that small group working of eight young people together, 389 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,880 mentoring the children. But in the in the group space 390 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,440 they're in afterwards with a debriefing and they do a session 391 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,640 around different areas that might be around what's working 392 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,320 in school, what's not, what's working in, in family and, and 393 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,760 community and not, and what's your aspirations for the future. 394 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,440 They just begin to open up a little bit more about who they 395 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,720 are and I think that bringing that level of authenticity or 396 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,840 honesty and however they share that is really helps strengthen 397 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,920 their sense of self. You mentioned there a lot of the 398 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,240 boys feel unseen and unheard, like you've been doing this work 399 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,400 for a couple of decades now. Do you feel like that has 400 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,840 increased that sense of feeling unheard, or are we just hearing 401 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:16,080 about it more? I actually don't know our is it 402 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,800 that we're just shining a spotlight on it and it's more 403 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,200 it's more prevalent than that sense. 404 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,040 Is it because I think COVID wasn't a good example of a 405 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,440 signpost where it did two things. 406 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,360 It recognized where there was a lack, where there was fear of 407 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,400 of, you know, there was lack of trust, there was worrying, there 408 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,200 was loneliness, but yet on the other side, communities come 409 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,520 together, they helped each other, they really valid round. 410 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,800 So there's sort of an interesting moment in time to 411 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,120 use that as a how do we move forward from building community 412 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:50,560 ourselves? I'm really interested in your 413 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,920 thoughts on community government because I mean, we obviously 414 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,640 we've just had the documentary Lou 3 documentary The 415 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,480 Manosphere. And I saw somebody talking 416 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,320 online about how you can't beat the manosphere with debate. 417 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,040 That's never going to work because actually ultimately boys 418 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,240 are gravitating towards this type of content for community. 419 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,840 It's not even necessarily that they agree with what these 420 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,680 people are saying is just that they desperately need community 421 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,360 and that gives them a sense of that. 422 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,480 And once they have a taste for community, they just want more 423 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,720 of it because they're so devoid of real connection. 424 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,360 And what you're doing is creating real connection. 425 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,360 Do you think we we've just lost the ability really to properly 426 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:39,080 connect a particularly young people and do you think that's 427 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,720 to do with screens? Do you think like I'd love to 428 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,560 know a bit more about your sorts on community? 429 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,560 Yeah, and it ties in really well. 430 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,120 We have a second program that was created by young people who 431 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,720 went to a nursery program who said we want to do something 432 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,360 else with going together. And so they created with the 433 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:58,360 community and with consultation they created a new social action 434 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,040 project. So we give them a wee budget and 435 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,040 they go and ask the, the community, what do you need? 436 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,920 What project would help benefit? And then they generally it's an 437 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,560 after schools activity. They'll, they'll create a 438 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,160 project that will help their community. 439 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,840 And it links to what you're seeing there about that sense of 440 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,160 belonging or the lack of belonging, that sense of 441 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,760 connectedness within a community. 442 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,600 So there's, there's, there's moments where an an elderly 443 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,080 person will cross the road not to walk past a group of 444 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,440 teenagers. You know, that that step, that 445 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,440 stereotype where I said those teenagers could be amazing human 446 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:38,800 beings who may be misunderstood. And I remember in a rites of 447 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,040 this is a story from a rites of passage program and where two 448 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,880 boys were coming together who who from many years ago hated 449 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,520 each other, had been in fights. And as they got closer, the 450 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960 anger was rising and rising and rising just to this point here 451 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,880 where they both realized they were wearing a, a necklace and a 452 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,920 medallion or a it was a little tooth. 453 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,000 And in that moment, they both realized they'd done the same 454 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,720 program. I mean, and although it wasn't 455 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,760 the same time, there was a sense of connection. 456 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,280 There was a sense of sheer. And everything changed. 457 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,000 They smiled and they walked past each other. 458 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,800 And you know, there's something about being heard and seeing 459 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,360 that that we can do more of. I'm always conscious that we're 460 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,720 going to sort of positive mind go set. 461 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,800 We can ask questions that take us down deficit most There's 462 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,840 something about asking the questions that will take us 463 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,520 forward. So what can we do now given 464 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,560 where we are learning from the past to do something moving 465 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,440 forward? And I love coaching questions 466 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,560 because you can just be curious. And I think one of the senses 467 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,720 that we get is for boys, especially for girls, and for 468 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,400 boys and boys in particular in this case, they're often not 469 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,800 heard because that sort of sense of active listening is often 470 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,720 missing. So we know, you know, from a 471 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,440 new, from a neurological point of view, as someone is answering 472 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,480 a question you've asked, you're already thinking of the next 473 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,200 question you're about to ask, you know, in in a general sense. 474 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,680 So how do we become present, Bree? 475 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,440 Bring presents. So we know that when we sit in 476 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,680 front of young people and our facilitators are fully present 477 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,720 with them, young people can feel that they feel the difference 478 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,680 when you're really there, You know, when you show up for 479 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,240 someone, but it's your friend, your family, you know, a boy, 480 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,120 they can tell when you're genuine and a bit authentic. 481 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,320 You know that you're you care that you want to be there, that 482 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,440 you closed everything off. And I think there's something 483 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,920 about presence of it coming back to really hearing people not 484 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,960 trying to change and not trying to answer the question, just 485 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,360 hear what they have to say. And that's the first step. 486 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,080 We're probably moving forward. Yeah, and that that community is 487 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,760 so important. That example you've given there 488 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040 around the two boys having more in common, doing the same 489 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,040 programme definitely relate to that. 490 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,760 I think in the days of youth clubs it really helps boys from 491 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,680 different estates have some sort of shared experience And so they 492 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,720 when they went off into school and got older, they may be on 493 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,600 opposing sides and they may have started fighting. 494 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,760 But actually I know him because I played football with him or I 495 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,520 did music with him or there's something that we did when we 496 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,800 were 11 years old that connects us. 497 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,720 I remember in my area, I was lucky enough to have an amazing 498 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,240 childminder and her son was quite well known in the area and 499 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,400 he had a gang and I was protected because my childminder 500 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,120 son, I used to go to to a house and spend time with him. 501 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,760 And so we knew each other and so I didn't get beaten up, which 502 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,720 was quite nice. But let's talk about a little 503 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,320 bit about like the mental health crisis. 504 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,400 We know there's a mental health crisis going on in, in the UK 505 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760 amongst young people. You're at the front line of 506 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,960 this. You see this every, every day. 507 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,080 What does it look like on the ground? 508 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,840 We hear the statistics, we we see the headlines. 509 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,880 What does it look like from your perspective? 510 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,440 What are you seeing in the young people right now? 511 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,240 Yeah, I think as I said earlier, I think one of the things we're 512 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,200 seeing is that sense of that sense of lack of self, that 513 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800 sense of depression. So really feeling depressed. 514 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,280 There could be anger, there could be lack of friendship 515 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,480 groups. And we're seeing mental health 516 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,680 really, and you know, really young people really struggling 517 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,360 with the mental health. And yet also when you ask them 518 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,120 what tools do you have, you're the ones that can come up with 519 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,200 solutions to helping this. I think Julie, you said 520 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,680 something earlier that's and so the Internet and sat on cyber, 521 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,040 cyber bullying. So lots of people are using the 522 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,360 Internet as their one of their biggest social arenas. 523 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,240 And that can be both a really positive thing. 524 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,000 It can also be quite detrimental to them. 525 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,600 And so we how we support that. I think we are seeing people 526 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,160 with suicidal thoughts really, even if it's just at self harm 527 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,920 stage. But you know, you're seeing that 528 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,960 and we do, you know, we do see young people that are disclosing 529 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,120 information that we pass back on so that you get the support they 530 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:53,960 need. And because there may be in this 531 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,360 safe space feeling OK or ready to share something you've not 532 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,680 wanted to share before. And it's important about getting 533 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,880 the right support on that child protection and safeguarding sort 534 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,840 of approach and to helping them. But some of them are just 535 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,000 feeling lost. Some of them don't feel that any 536 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,640 sense of hope. There's the whole whether that's 537 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,280 ecological crisis that we're really seeing within Internet 538 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,640 social media. A lot of, a lot of the, a lot of 539 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,640 young people are saying they're having to deal with what's 540 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,800 coming to them from this point of view from the external world. 541 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,000 And we're maybe they're not strengthening the foundations 542 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,920 within themselves, which is why I think talking and sharing and 543 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,800 and doing things together is really important. 544 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,120 There's times when a question we often hold is like other times 545 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,680 when you're thinking is holding you back from action. 546 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,520 You know, there's, there's times when is there action that's 547 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,280 holding me back from doing more thinking. 548 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,240 There's something about reframing a story. 549 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280 We often live our life with the story we've created. 550 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,400 But we can, we can change that story. 551 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,720 And actually you can help especially teenagers when 552 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,000 they've gone through the 1st formative years of their lives. 553 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,240 You can also choose to create a new story about themselves. 554 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,400 Join a football club, do something different, as Elliott 555 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,240 said, new groups of friends. And there's lots of Good Hope 556 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,760 now. It's always a balance between 557 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600 recognizing things that aren't working, but also recognizing 558 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,520 lots of solutions already in our communities and in our society 559 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,880 we can do. And I think it starts from 560 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,840 presence, talking, sharing, working out what they need, 561 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,320 helping them understand they've got the answers inside of 562 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,120 themselves. It's not often out here, it's 563 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,520 often out here. And that's hard. 564 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,280 That's hard for people that have no connection with themselves 565 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,640 because they do want to be part of a gang. 566 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,720 They do want to be part of, you know, whichever gang that isn't 567 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,680 where they're formed. And, and it's interesting, you 568 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,560 know, we worked with, and one of my previous roles working a lot 569 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,040 with them, young people who have care experience into the care 570 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,480 system. You know, a lot of them join the 571 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,800 army. You know, there's a lot of 572 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,280 statistics to show that a lot of them re offend and want to go 573 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,960 back into prison because there's the sense of belonging, the 574 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:02,520 safety, the community, the connection there. 575 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,680 So how do we help people in society to find new senses of 576 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,760 connections and belonging in a really positive way that can 577 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,440 strengthen our communities? It's definitely a question to 578 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,080 hold. For parents that are listening 579 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800 to this, that have a teenager that's struggling, what would 580 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,080 you, what would you say to them to for them to be able to help 581 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,640 their teenager? Would you say they should ask 582 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,520 their teenager what to do and how to help them? 583 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,920 And they should, you know, try and get the teenagers to come up 584 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,400 with the solutions themselves? Or is there other advice you 585 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,440 would give them? That's a great question. 586 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,440 And you know, being a dad myself, and I don't think I 587 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,040 always get it right. You can ask my that's my 588 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,040 children. And but I think there's 589 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,240 something about those moments where I've not felt presents, 590 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520 they're talking to me and I'm just half there and that's 591 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,800 natural. We're all just trying to get on 592 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,520 with life. But there's also something 593 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,520 important about being able to just stop and sit down and go, 594 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,560 Hey, how are you doing? And we all we all approach 595 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,160 supporting our our with our children, you know, in the best 596 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,240 way we can. We're all we're often stressed 597 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,600 as parents. So it's recognizing that. 598 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,880 And actually there's something about being honest of saying, I 599 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,080 am so sorry I've not been present with you. 600 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,080 Can we start again? How's your day? 601 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,640 What's going on? And I think it's about being 602 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,600 curious about them. And sometimes you don't get 603 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,560 much. I'm all right, I'm off. 604 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,080 That's OK. It's the small, isn't that the 605 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,040 small winds? But there may just be moments 606 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,240 when they do want to talk to you, and that's the moment to 607 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,560 just sort of open up and say, hey, you can come to me at any 608 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,040 time. Let's chat things through. 609 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:44,160 And I think, yeah, advice. One thing we got some great 610 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,480 feedback from parents on our nursery major program who they 611 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,440 realized that the program helped the sickening relationships so 612 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,480 that the boys were coming back from the nursery program and 613 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,440 actually having a better relationship with their brothers 614 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,040 and sisters because they were so and that's really interesting. 615 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,400 So changing perspectives gives them something that affects them 616 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,680 back at home. For parents, curiosity, asking 617 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,920 them questions. I often try and do the third 618 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,560 person approach, which is, hey, if you had a friend like you 619 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,760 that was struggling in this, what advice might you give them, 620 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,920 for example? So it's taking out themselves to 621 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,440 them, thinking about sort of deep personalizing, whatever. 622 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,960 And often they can come up with solutions better than than I 623 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,040 can. And that we can because they 624 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,760 know themselves well. And but I think it's connection, 625 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,880 relationship, curiosity. Do you think there's also 626 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,520 something though, about giving kids responsibilities, like 627 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,960 giving, you know, I do think sometimes with my son that I'm 628 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,080 mollycoddle him a bit and that actually I want to, you know, 629 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,840 really I should get him down the pit work and I'm checking. 630 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,840 But you know, I really I should give him way more 631 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,720 responsibilities than I do and that that would be really good 632 00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,800 for him. Do you think there's something 633 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,160 that's come out of your program that shows giving teenagers real 634 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,360 responsibilities that are meaningful, helps them grow and 635 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,000 helps their mental health? Yeah, and we hear it from them. 636 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,920 We've got, I've just been looking through loads of quotes 637 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,520 from young people recently and often a lot of them say I was 638 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,720 nervous, I didn't want to do it, I didn't think it was going to 639 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,040 be good enough. I wanted to walk away after the 640 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,280 first week, you know, etcetera. But actually we're putting them 641 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,160 in a, a really important position of authority, a 642 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,200 position of, of responsibility. They're wearing name tags. 643 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,120 They're not allowed to have their mobile phones because they 644 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760 know there's a child protection reason for not having mobile 645 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,600 phones at nursery. You know, they are recognizing 646 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,280 that they have to change their behaviour and modulate their 647 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,080 communication. Squealing is not allowed, you 648 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,280 know, you know, so it's them really realizing that there's 649 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,520 certain and we call them non negotiables and group 650 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,120 agreements. So it's the things that they 651 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,000 need to, to agree to, to, to go into the program and continue. 652 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,560 And you're right, giving them that responsibility. 653 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,120 And I think we can do more of that. 654 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,560 And because they are capable, they are able to grow with that. 655 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,560 And yes, they might struggle, but we shouldn't stop too early 656 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,560 in that struggle. That's maybe just the door 657 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,719 that's opening to the what's going to emerge through this, 658 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,120 this challenging time, because we often see when you fall down, 659 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,120 pick yourself up and brush yourself off. 660 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,840 But there's so much truth in that isn't no, it's like keep on 661 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:25,679 keeping on through the hard times. 662 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:27,719 Yes, good to have support around you. 663 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:29,679 And I think you're absolutely right. 664 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:35,960 Giving teenagers especially more responsibility to to help us is 665 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,520 probably the key to changing our to changing our society. 666 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,960 Yeah, amazing. I'm getting my 10 year old a job 667 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,960 tomorrow. No, but seriously, I would love 668 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,960 her to do this program. And I have seen when we have 669 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,080 given her a responsibility, how much. 670 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,520 And I do feel like we underestimate young people 671 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,120 sometimes, and they can do so much more than we give them 672 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,360 credit for. So yeah, I think what you're 673 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,440 doing is actually absolutely incredible. 674 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,680 So you've worked with thousands of young people over the years. 675 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,440 Let's end with some hope. What gives you hope about the 676 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,720 next generation of boys? Yeah. 677 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,720 So we're, we're just, I think we're just over 3000 teenagers 678 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:20,320 and children in our programs, which is fantastic in our 679 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,160 nursery and engine programs. And what gives me hope is if we 680 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,120 as adults are willing to get down to the teenagers and say, 681 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:35,040 do you know what we've taken? We've got society to this place 682 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,280 and there's some really good things and there's some not good 683 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,360 things. How will you help us make this 684 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,840 world a better place and actively, as as Julie was 685 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,440 saying, give them that responsibility and ask them to 686 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:50,120 help us change things. I think, I think we've for good 687 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,760 reasons, done a lot of really good interventions to support 688 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,720 teenagers and that's needed. And at the other side, it's 689 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,440 something about giving them the responsibility help us to make 690 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,720 this world a better place. If we've got issues with 691 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,920 teenagers in inner cities, how do we deal with that? 692 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,680 You know, what could we do? And they'll come up with great 693 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,840 solutions. They need maybe extra guidance 694 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,720 or ideas and suggestions to hold that. 695 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,120 But often they'll come up and I think we are in a really 696 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,200 positive place. We are going through, you know, 697 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:21,800 societally, social media globally, you know, there's so 698 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,720 many things that you can focus on and a really negative or 699 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,280 would really draw it down. And, and I think it's the way I 700 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,880 often see it as a downward spiral. 701 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,200 It's so easy just to catch that one thing that just drops us 702 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,800 down and down and down. And I think there's something 703 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,640 important about the whole the faith, the trust, but actually 704 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,960 action and good thinking that helps us move forward. 705 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,120 So positive growth mindset is about believing in yourself and 706 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,440 believing that you can create your life. 707 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,440 You're not you're you're either a victim or you're a Co creator. 708 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,200 And yes, there will always be moments when we feel a victim to 709 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,960 things that happens in our life. Are we going to be held to that 710 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,440 for the rest of our lives or are we going to do something about 711 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,680 it? And that's something you'd just 712 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,720 be getting outside and going for a job, joining a football club, 713 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,040 a swimming club, doing something in the community. 714 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,600 I think, I think it was something that Julie said 715 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,240 earlier, it feels like we are. There's more lights being shown 716 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:20,000 on a lot of issues around society at moment. 717 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,920 And I think that's to help us clear the way of what we're 718 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,280 going to do to make the world a better place, to make our 719 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,480 communities about those. So, yeah, we need trust. 720 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,880 We can trust our teenagers and they feel that they will step 721 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,520 up. It's the program across the UK, 722 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,400 Gavin, is it? It's, it's, it's not across the 723 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,720 UK. We're currently in Scotland. 724 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,480 We went to Education Scotland and piloted in Highland Council. 725 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,240 We then moved into Murray and into Aberdeen City Council. 726 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,080 And we often hear teachers and parents going, why isn't this 727 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,960 across the country? And yeah. 728 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,680 And there is lots of amazing mentoring that happened. 729 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,640 So it's not to take away in any way. 730 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,360 I, I was a youth worker and, and had had different sets of 731 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,520 mentoring programs before. The thing I think that makes 732 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,920 this unique is we, we hold it within the container of 733 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,800 causative and transpersonal psychology with coaching. 734 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,360 So using coaching as that method to really explore yourself and 735 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,280 help others. And so there's great stuff 736 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,400 happening. We'd love to yeah, we'd love to 737 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,960 grow it because it actually isn't about us is going 738 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,240 together. So we also train up the teachers 739 00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,520 or youth workers to Co deliver with us and then eventually go 740 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,360 independent. We'll still hold that sort of an 741 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,800 evaluation and that quality assurance, the sort of the 742 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,840 program in that sense to to grow and learn from it. 743 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,480 But if we can train more people up to run it themselves, then we 744 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,040 can go into more schools and communities and and grow it. 745 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,400 So there is a Movember, you know, global men's health 746 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,680 charity, huge supporters of ours were really good for all their 747 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,000 support. They helped us really take up 748 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,440 more boys into the program and learn from that. 749 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,520 And then they helped with looking at scaling what works. 750 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,120 So really looking at how we would grow that sustainability 751 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,760 model. So love to see it grow at the 752 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,720 right moment, the right time. And yeah, who knows what the 753 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:06,680 future holds. Yeah, I mean, I feel like the UK 754 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,600 government should know about this and know about the research 755 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,240 and the insight that you've gathered and the benefits of it 756 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,320 because it is, it seems to me that they should be exist in 757 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,360 every school. We should have programs like 758 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,480 this. I wonder if for parents 759 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,560 listening, how could they? And they are listening and 760 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,680 thinking, I want this in my school. 761 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,440 I want this when my kid goes to school to help some of the 762 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,680 children there. What would how can they support 763 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:31,800 you? How can they find you? 764 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,560 And how could they support your work? 765 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,360 Yeah, I mean, so they can get in touch with us and on our 766 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,400 websites www.growingtogetherand.org.uk. 767 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:46,480 So growing together, GROWING the number 2 and then gather GETHER 768 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,160 so growing together and get in touch with us because if the 769 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,680 school was interested and we could have our parents were 770 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,240 interested, we could have a chat and see what we might be able to 771 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:58,560 do together and we are yeah, we're I think you're right. 772 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,800 There's something about UK government sort of taking eye 773 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,320 lines going how what innovative programs are out there and early 774 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,720 intervention to two sets of vulnerable children and 775 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:13,000 teenagers and because. It almost shouldn't work taking 776 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,280 two sets of vulnerable teenagers and children, but that's why it 777 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,360 works, because they're both struggling and actually they're 778 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,480 helping each other. And the children are the 779 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,040 greatest gift to the teenagers. And the teenagers may or may not 780 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,080 realize that that is one of the secrets for the teenagers, 781 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,600 realizing they are not unable to help the children. 782 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,680 Children are helping them to see more about themselves. 783 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,800 It is simple if you hold it well, the containers there to 784 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,200 really help them, help them to grow and actually the schools 785 00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:45,160 are phenomenal, the teachers getting behind it, the parents 786 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,360 that see the benefit of it and the wider impact to get to the 787 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,960 community. So yeah, always came to grow. 788 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,200 Gavin, you have blown our minds. I have loved hearing from you. 789 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,080 I think what you're doing is absolutely incredible and I 790 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,160 think throughout the conversation you've dropped some 791 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,640 gems for people, for parents, helped people with practical 792 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,360 ideas about what they can do with their children, the point 793 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,640 about connection and getting down to their level and being 794 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,520 present, all those things that we can do. 795 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,320 So you've been amazing, Gavin, thank you so much. 796 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,880 We really appreciate you. Before we go, you were talking 797 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,120 about where you live. You you live in somewhere really 798 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,560 interesting. Talk to us about that a little 799 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,840 for a second. I live I live in the northeast 800 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,120 of Scotland and so I live in a small town called Forest, but 801 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,520 the next door to this beautiful and ecological community called 802 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,400 Finton. So Eco Park Finton. 803 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,720 It used to be known as the Finton Foundation and that 804 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,560 people in the 60s were gravitating towards becoming a 805 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,040 community themselves. Very diverse beliefs respecting 806 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,400 diversity of religion and spirituality and the, the sort 807 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,000 of permiculture and ecological sustainability element was 808 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,400 really, really key to that. So the community is growing and 809 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,080 flourishing in lots of different ways. 810 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,600 And if you're ever up this neck of the weeds, come and visit. 811 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,000 There's some really cool, like I call them Hobbit, Hobbit houses 812 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,560 with grass going on top and, and some, some really old caravans 813 00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:13,800 to really modern day Swedish style eco houses. 814 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,320 And, and they've got their windmills and to get electricity 815 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,480 and they're trying to be more off grade through their own 816 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,400 food. So it's just a lovely example 817 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,880 that happens across many different communities of trying 818 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,400 to be more sustainable and from an ecological perspective, but 819 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,840 also how they live together, how they share and just trying to 820 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,280 create, learn from the past to live in the moment. 821 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,000 That sounds like exactly what we need right now. 822 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,080 Live with you Gavin and you have kids to do your programme so I 823 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,840 hope you medley. Come on out. 824 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,480 Yeah, we've got an extension. Gavin, you've been incredible. 825 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,240 Thank you so, so much, Gavin. Everyone round of applause.