This episode is supported by Movember, the leading charity
changing the face of men's health.
Hello and welcome to To Be a Boy.
Today's episode is very special because it's a recording from
Push for Paternity Leave which was a March we did through
London, Leeds, Manchester and Nottingham on the 2nd of May to
demand better parental leave rates for all parents.
In particular, six weeks paternity leave paid at 90% of
salary for dads and non birthing parents, better pay across
maternity leave. And we also really want all
companies to have to publish their parental leave policies.
So today's recording are the speeches from London and kicking
us off is my Co host Elliot Ray. Hey, hello.
So if you agree with these statements, I want you to say
yes, OK. Are you at Prisma paternity
leave? Is the UK paternity leave system
absolutely punch? Is the best way of addressing
the motherhood penalty to give time for dads to share the care
at the beginning of the child's life?
Are we not going to stop till we get six weeks paid paternity
leave for working dads? OK, I love that.
Thank you so much to everyone. This is a real, real moment.
I had a neighbor who lived next next to me a few years ago.
He had one child who was about four or five and then he had
another child that came along. He was working on the roads.
He couldn't of course, take any paternity leave.
He had one week off. He went back to work.
I saw him everyday leave his house.
Stressful, really, really upset, tired, struggling, exhausted.
He got really sick. He had a heart attack.
Luckily he's still here, he's still alive.
But his story goes to show that what we are doing here is not
just a nice to have. It's not just that this will be
really good for dads to bond. This is life changing and life
saving stuff. Do you agree?
So we want six weeks paper. Totally.
We know that would make a massive difference to dad being
able to bond with their baby, be able to soothe their baby in the
night time, to do skin to skin, to bond, to learn to parent
independently. That's really important to equal
parenting, to sharing the care for the beginning of the child's
life. We know that mothers do around
60% more unpaid care, childcare, domestic duties.
To fix that, to address the fact that the gender fake up is 88%
the motherhood penalty, to fix the fact that about one in eight
mothers leave the labor market up having a baby, we need to
support dads from the very start of their child's life.
Do you agree? Yes.
We know that one in 10 dads suffer from postage depression,
one in five mums. One of the key risk factors to
postage depression is a lack of opportunity to bond with your
baby at the time. At the moment we are giving dads
the post life changing experience of fatherhood.
They get 2 weeks at home and they go back to work like
nothing has changed. Often the line manager has
expects them to get on with it and just get their head down and
perform with no emotions, no emotional safety and get their
head down at work. It is ridiculous.
You are talking about the mental health of families here, so
equal parenting a week has been. This week has been incredible.
We've had webinars, we've had the launch at the Light on
Monday. We've had so many people on
social media talking about the fact that we can share the care
more equally. We are up against a fight.
We have people in that building. We have people in the media who
are trying to take us back to The Handmaid's Tale, who are
trying to take us back to the 1950s, who believe that
childcare is bigger as well. You can be right now if you want
to be right now. This is the council argument to
the fact that we saw a Reform MP say the other day that if
there's more childcare, there'll be more abuse and mother should
stay at home with their babies. That's to stay at home with
their babies too. And if that is the case, then
fix the system. This is the council argument to
Scott Galloway, a big American podcaster, supposedly one of the
good guys saying that that's a useless in the first year, we
don't need paternity leave. This is the counter argument to
that. This is the counter argument to
the Global Institute for Women's Leadership Research showing that
3rd 1/3 of Gen. Z men believe that their wives
should obey their husbands. Obey is an interesting word.
This right here. Yes, you can do right now.
This right here is the counter movement.
We are doing something really special.
We are saying we can do things differently.
Masculinity has evolved. That's can be breadwinners and
equal parents. We can work, we can have a
career, we can be caregivers, we can be strong, we can be
masculine. We can be there for our
children. Do you agree?
So I'm going to ask you those questions one more time only
about Bishop maternity leave. Do we want six weeks paid
maternity leave? But who's daddy in the UK
please? Under records.
Will we not stop until Keir Starmer and the people in that
building listen and make sure they're supporting British
families? And, and I would like to say a
massive thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I speak for Jodie as well. Can you give me a round of calls
for Jodie please? The legend behind Britney
Spears, our ghost squat. We had this idea about 2-3
months ago. It's been a bloody nightmare.
Pretty together, I'll tell you that.
Permissions of the council. It's terrible, terrible.
We made it happen and we have hundreds of you here.
So much. This is so emotional and
overwhelmed and so happy. A movement is starting and we
are doing something so special. Please give yourself a round of
applause. As you could hear, Elliot was as
excited to see so many people there as we all were.
Next up we have the incredible comedian and Instagram
influencer Rena O'Connor. Hello my name is Rita and I have
two lovely kids here in the UK with my lovely husband who had
the pissy 2 weeks paternity leave.
And I think what we realized But when my husband went back to
work we were still holding our baby like he was alive grenade.
But we had no clue. And to be fair to us we had
witnessed multiple explosions multiple times a day from his
mouth, from his bum screaming and roaring.
The thing that we sort of ascertained by the end of those
two tiny weeks was that actually we.
Knew. Nothing.
There was not enough time. So I have put a list together of
10 Kings. Better longer than paternity
leave, right #1A bad cold. I've had a virus.
More committed than paternity leave.
And soon dad #2 jury service. Because serving justice takes
longer than serving your noses. As man who used to sleep through
the night #3 ABBC drama series. Usually you got get like 6
weekly episodes with a Christmas special.
Dad, just get a Christmas special Poonami and off you go
#5 the red worms. Red worms, they're longer.
They last longer than paternity. But I wish I did not know this.
Don't ask me how I do. You basically watch your own
child give birth to these tribe worms because you have to
investigate down there, right? You remove the worm in horror,
pretty much burn your own house down trying to get rid of them.
You give them the banana flavored medicine and then you
have to keep on doing that and two weeks later give them more
medicine, right? And you're praying that the
things are dead along with their eggs.
Number six, my motivation to go to the gym lasts longer than the
attorney to leave now to refer this one was a very close call.
OK, they were neck and neck. Considering my relationship with
the gym is more a situation ship than a commitment, and it still
won the day, that says a lot. Right #7 Dry January.
I can be so hungover from Christmas I can convince myself
I don't like wine until at least February #8.
The temporary Rd. works that they set up in my local town.
They've become part of the local landscape that is longer than
paternity leave. Like these fellas get to stare
at a hole in the ground longer than dads get to stare at their
newborns #9 My episiotomy. My husband was back to work
while I was still manspirting and walking like John Wayne
trying to remember life before ice packs on my beds #10 #10 any
and all DIY jobs we have ever taken on in our lives.
I mean, I do not need to explain to any of you.
DIY jobs are 50% optimism, 10% YouTube videos, and 40% range.
And all of those things are longer than paternity leave.
I wish that the government would understand that parents, we need
to be there to look after our children.
The people taking paternity leave, they want to be there to
care. And I think what really
demonstrated that, you know, as parents, we are in this
together. We are a team.
And what really demonstrated this to our to me and my husband
was one night when we had a newborn and a toddler and we
really understood what that means.
I'm going to tell you the story and unfortunately, this is a
true story. OK, it's a little song.
I've heard it yesterday, so bear with me, right.
One night when my newborn was 7 weeks old, gastro into sternal
discomfort took hold. My stomach did heave my bum said
here we go. When I finished the loo had a
nuclear glow. Norovirus struck the best
breastfeeding could not cease fuking while the the baby's
mouth did not release. The baby pushed the sick ball up
into my for rose while I choked. My husband helped put my sick
spills on himself. Oh, we are in this together.
As I projectile out of every Arthas I know dignity gun he
empty reached like killing my bomb.
Oh we are in this together. Two hours later I woke covered
in sweat. I looked over to the bathroom so
the were sighted yet my husband's bare legs sticking out
through the door hugging the loo while his bum leaked on the
floor. The toddler woke up and he
jumped on his back said EW daddy what's that leaking out your
crack my husband he groaned a blanket I did throw.
He slept soiling himself where the toddler and tall.
We are in this together as we project dialogue of every
orifice we know. Then the kids caught this
plague. The next week was a poop fuse
craze. How we are in this together?
Rena had us all in absolute stitches.
Next up is the political activist Femi Aluol.
I I, I think it might be lost. I don't actually have any kids.
He bought me for this so. I'm not, perhaps.
Going to talk from my deep personal traumatic experience of
being a father, but what I can talk from is 2 experiences I've
had that really shaped my view on paternity leave.
One I'm ashamed of because I was 24 and I was alone in the office
of my boss and he then went on a rant about women.
He said that he was really happy that we're no longer in the
place where there used to be all these strong willed women in the
office. So just an out and out
misogynist. And I didn't say anything to my
shame because I was fresh out of uni, was one of my first jobs.
And he then went on to say that he was fortunate that he managed
to, basically. Change all that I get.
Rid of women and he talked about all these women going off and
having bleeding babies. Direct quotes full of misogyny
from my boss. Now I didn't do anything back
then, but we can do something now because, because we can make
it so that women and men take just so much time off to, to, to
look after their kids. Because if we can make that the
case, then it will completely be removed from the minds of all
employers of I better not hire this woman.
I better not promote this woman because she might have to go off
on maternity leave. If we could remove the right
concept of pregnancy, of parental care from the minds of
employers because they will know that that risk will be equally
likely on the male side and on the female side, then that is
how we start to close the gender pay gap.
Because as long as that is in the mind of employers, it will
always, it will. There will always be a gender
pay gap. And personally, I do not accept
that. Do you?
Thank you. And if you might be thinking,
oh, but what if the woman wants to choose to stay, to stay at
home rather than the dad because the dad has a higher earning
potential, likely to earn more money?
That's a circular argument because one of the reasons that
dad's more likely to earn more money is because of the sexism
in the workplace, which is caused by women taking more
parental leave than men. It's a circular argument.
The second experience is that of being the childless friends to
all of my friends who have kids and watching them struggle in
their relationships because of, especially in the early years,
because of the competition. Some of you will know this
competition that goes on, even if it's not said explicitly, is
that who is actually doing more for the family?
Who is, who is having a harder time, especially in those
earlier years because they don't see what the other one is going
through. We'll have the mom staying at
home in constant physical contact with, with the child
constantly having to be to their needs, being where they want and
so forth. But with the benefit of having,
not having to deal with the boss telling them where to go and
what to do verbally, at least, because we're not including
cries, smells and, and screaming, but and also enabling
the husband or the OR the OR the father to go out and earn that
money. So that father can only do that
because of the woman is staying at home.
So it's not like one, one side is contributing more.
And on the father's side, he's having to deal with the boss
that is telling him where to go and what to do.
And then when he comes home tired, he then ends up in the
driveway. And many people have been
through this, where he just wants to decompress for a
moment, and he might spend some more time in the car and he
might go play on the Xbox. He might go to the gym.
Meanwhile, the mother who's been waiting at home all day, waiting
to finally be relieved, to have a chance to breathe, is watching
the husband that's supposed to relieve her wasting time
elsewhere. And so and that moment, the
tension only eats away at the relationship.
And I've seen it happen time and time again.
What we can do is if we make it so that they can actually
understand where each one is coming from by both spending as
much time looking after the kids, then that will actually
make relationships in better relations in general better
leading the happier lives for men and women.
That is what I want now. So if what I want is for the
government through either law changes or tax incentives to
make paternity leave time and maternity leave time equal.
So yes, of course that is a huge change the way things are right
now. But so is every single bit of
progress that has ever been fought for in this world.
Because, right? Because right now I don't.
Right now there's a gender pay gap and I don't accept that.
Do you? Right now we have a major crisis
in terms of in terms of male behaviour with the toxic
masculinity and those sorts of two pros, largely because men
don't, boys don't tend to have role models in in their lives
because the women will spend more time with them,
statistically speaking. So if we want to actually change
that and fix the problem of toxic masculinity and actually
have fathers as caregiving characters in their children's
lives, then this has to be done. Do you accept the status pro?
I don't either. Thank you very much.
We were so grateful to Femi for coming to speak as a non parent,
but what an amazing guy. Next up we have the CEO of the
Fawcett Society, Penny East. Hello, hello, hello.
So my name is Penny and I'm from the Fawcett Society.
So this woman is literally my boss.
This woman right here, I quite often come here when I feel
stressed and just chat to her. I think what would you do in my
situation? In all seriousness.
Though she would look about and she would think that women have
made remarkable progress over the last 30 to 50 years, but she
would also think we've been protesting this shit for way too
long. 150 years fighting for equality.
And she would be shocked at how outdated the parental leave
system continues to be. She'd be so delighted to see how
many women are in positions of power, how workplaces have made
improvements, how the pay gap is slowly closing.
But she would be shocked at how outdated the parental leave
system is. The we think that fathers, that
men, that second parents only deserve two weeks and that the
burden and enjoy the joy of parenthood is still on women.
It doesn't suit in modern society.
It doesn't suit parenting. And to be honest, parents for
too long have been saying we'll work it out.
We will somehow work it out. You know what?
I'll crawl into the office at 8:00 in the morning on two hours
sleep. We'll work it out by the fact
that we're being paid way under minimum wage.
We'll work it out. We're fed up of working it out.
We are not doing some sort of refuse thing.
One support, we want it now. We're bringing up the future
generations to give us some fun leave.
You may have heard from Penny. We did this event standing right
next to Milicent Fawcett, who as Penny said, is actually her boss
even though she died I think over 100 years ago.
Next up is the financial educator Abby Foster.
Hi everyone. I'm going to keep it really
short because you know, you've got kids.
So I am a child accountant and a finance content creator, but
what I also get the privilege of doing is teaching finance in
schools all over the country. I founded the company four years
ago and I teach from year one, all three through to year 13.
And the one thing I can tell you that I do know is that they are
watching us. They are watching everything we
do. And what I really wanted to say
is go back to my votes here is like we're here today pushing
for better paternity leave. And I want to be clear about
what that what that means. It's not just for dads and not
just for my mums, but for the next generation because yes,
fathers get 2 weeks off and a mother gets up to a year.
But we're just not creating leave gap here.
We're creating a role gap. And we're telling families and
everyone really that from day one who the primary caregiver is
and we're deciding it for them before they even get the chance
to figure it out themselves. Two weeks is not enough.
Thank you. The gender pay gap, the
motherhood bouncy and the fact that women are still more likely
to drop to part. Time or leave work entirely
after having children. None of that exists in
isolation. It starts here and it starts
with who we give time to at the beginning.
Yes, I'm not a parent. I did get to push a pound
though. That was a that was a ride.
But. I receive a lot of feedback from
the people that do follow me on social media.
And one woman sent me a message and said push for change.
Even if you don't think this is relevant for you, this is sold
as part of your contract. And I think she refers to the
contract, the kind of fake contract that we all sign when
we're on social media to make sure that we're not just seeing
or we're not just heard that we're also seeing and that we
stand up for this stuff. I get the privilege, we could
call it, to interview people in that room often about the
financial implications. And I do take this stuff too,
though, so I think it's probably why I'm up there talking about
this. But yeah, I just want to say
finally that the next generation are watching you.
So please don't stop. Please keep going.
Thank you. We were so grateful to Abby for
coming to speak as a non parent, but Abby cares deeply about the
financial challenges of new parents and those that parental
leave is a major contributor to debt for new parents.
Next up we have friend of the Podcast and founder of Male
Allies, Lee Chambers. I traveled 250 miles to be here
today because that's how much this matters.
In 2012, my son was born. It was quite traumatic.
Did I take paternity leave? Nor was at the time.
I was self-employed and I couldn't.
And June, in a really difficult time, I had to take a day here
and a day there, and then I was disappointed.
Well, then when my daughter was due to be born in 2014, I
thought I was going to take some more leave, but I couldn't.
I was actually in hospital. I'd lost the ability to walk.
And through that adversity, it made me think just how important
it is to have that time. I learned to walk again
alongside my daughter. I was determined I was going to
beat her to walk in. I'd get back on my feet before
she would. You know what, I made it.
She's now 11. I've not been here much else
since, but at least I can say it's our victory.
But after going through that journey and not having access to
the leave that I would have liked to have, I actually
decided to take a really left field decision.
I decided that was step out of the business that I've built to
become a stay at home dad to my children, a primary caregiver,
but I mean, with an incredibly privileged position to be able
to do that now. I got called a loser.
I got told it was career suicide.
People kept asking me what's your wife doing?
And I got told I'd get bored. You don't have any time to get
bored when the mental Lord smacks you in the face every day
and you're literally on your knees at 4:00.
I needed some respite, so I went to my local baby in Toddler
Creek. I was one man surrounded by
first seven mothers and grandmothers.
And you know what? I let an awful lot just sat
there all about a lot of things, and naturally it was an
incredibly transformative experience for me to just sit
there and listen to women. What did that time do for me?
It made me go back into my business and equalize our
parental leave, and the men in my business started taking that
leave. Now I'm going to be honest, it
wasn't cheap, but it massively transformed our culture.
I then sold that company to a Danish company and they laughed
because the leave was rubbish. What am I here to tell you
today? Well, I now do a lot of work
around closing gender gaps, tackling gender bias.
The reality is that this is one of the biggest levers to tackle
and close some of those gaps that women keep falling into.
Share that mental Lord and create society where everyone
benefits. I don't need to talk about those
benefits because many of the other speakers will say that.
But the message I want to leave you with today is if I can build
a little company that started in a bedroom in the Northwest that
had under 100 people and equalized the leave 16 weeks
full pay for every member of staff that we had, then why
can't these big ass government for six weeks at 90%?
For everyone, it's a job. If this government are not
willing to invest in the next generation, well, doesn't that
say an awful lot about what they actually truly believe?
We are here today committed to pushing.
They need to commit to pushing the review to ensure that men do
get that space because it's not just about men, it's not even
about women. It's about the next generation,
business, society. And if we look at our
increasingly divided and polarized world, wouldn't it be
powerful if people could say at least together and spend that
time truly bonding togetherness, unity and connection?
That's what I'm calling for. You're bringing that today.
It's a pleasure to be with you. 250 miles was worth it.
In a few hours, I'll be travelling 250 miles back.
Absolutely feeling like we can do this.
Let's go over them. Thank you.
Thank you Lee and that was so brilliant.
As always, if you do have a son and you are based near London,
Lee is running Festival of the Boy on Sunday the 17th of May,
which looks absolutely brilliant so please do look that up.
Next up we have the poet Harry Baker.
Hello my name is Harry Baker. I am a poet.
I am self-employed and that meant that I wasn't entitled to
any paid the sunny leave whatsoever.
So what happened is I gigged up until the week before my son was
born so I could take unpaid leave for myself to be there for
the first six months. And it was the most incredible 6
months of my life. I wish that everyone could have
that kind of experience. And even though I was gigging up
until the week before, it was almost growing.
He he came to our base early. So I remember, so I am my wife
being into labor and having to sort of cancel the kick in
Brighton and then 10 AM that morning holding my son and came
looking like in me and saying you could still make it to
Maidenheads and but you decided. But the other thing I did was I
I I write poems to process things.
And so I write a poem a day for the 1st 100 days of my son's
life. And I would just like to share a
couple with you that come from between two weeks and six weeks
because at two weeks, all of my new dad friends had to go back
to work and I was the only one that did them.
And these are experiences that I wouldn't have been there for if
I had to go back at two weeks. So this is from say 23 and it's
called first bottle. I'm almost certain you were
crying because you are hungry. Ioffer you the bottle up 100%
confirm you are crying because the plastic teeth is being
thrust into your face. I'm told it's best to offer it
to you before you are distressed, which I mean by
which I mean every time I try to offer it, you become distressed
immediately afterwards. We both know that you just want
your mum, but we were hoping to get that a break and we'll keep
hoping because what is the alternative?
I do think that you would love it if you tried it, but people
said the same to me about Dungeons and Dragons, so I do
also understand your hesitation. If I had to give it one last go
before calling it a day, and even the angle or the lighting
or the timing must have changed. But you take it in that moment,
I am happier than the day that you before.
I am no longer simply a bucker zone, delaying the inevitable.
Now everything is possible. I have all of the tools that I
need. I am the milkman.
I am super hot. I am your sustenance provider.
I message your monster. I message your monster.
She might as well be the spa weekend.
I can take it from here. We managed to stay out but twice
as long as ever before. You've not just given your mom a
break, you have given your dad a breakthrough.
I take you to a cafe for an ice latte to celebrate too.
Perfectly contented monkey. Alright.
And then this one I think exemplifies what I think is
really important is that you do have no idea what you're doing
at the start. And if you have to leave after
two weeks, you continue to for useless.
Whereas part of being there is getting it wrong and figuring it
out and not just referring to a person who's got more experience
being used. And this is day 34.
It's called clunk. I pour your milk into the bottle
in here, the clunk of a frozen core.
Clunk is not a word I've used to describe milk before.
Flashbacks of transporting sample pots in my inside pocket
for warmth. I tried to trust it by the time
you need to feed it with a full. When that time comes, you make
your face. That lets me know that's not the
case. I decide to wedge the bottle in
my armpits. I walked for 15 minutes with it
held this right. I hope that's long enough for
both of you to be less frosty at the nicotine and to in it to see
that I would do this without thinking before long.
And sometimes the way of getting things right is finding new ways
of getting it wrong. Right now you were asleep and
your mom is asleep and that means everything is OK.
Tomorrow is another chance to get it wrong.
And then I would finish on this one because I think I was lucky
enough that 35 years ago, my mom and dad job shared so they could
raise me and my brother equally. At the time, they didn't have
any design, even plays. They work for a small charity,
but that was the example that we would give them.
And I grew up watching my brother be an incredible dad and
say equal time off with his wife.
And so that was thinking I always wanted to see if I'm
being honest, I thought, but I was doing that to help share the
burden account that to try and make it easier for my wife to
try and give her a break from my son.
But I realized I was doing as I was sharing in the joy and the
wonder of parenting as well. And that is something that I
wish for for all the parents, for all fathers.
And so this last column is an example of that.
And then I will give over to baby with more supercondicable
knowledge and his statistics. But thank you sooner to your
eyes remain open for bigger stretches now, no longer in any
constant state that either sleeping or wishing that you
were you could spend hours on end just looking around taking
it or when the book says you'll be awake for long enough that
you might cry from boredom. So for one subconscious enough
about my conversation as and yet how can you be bored when you
were seeing so much for the first time all of the time, when
at any point your brain might switch from black and white to
color eyes wove a wonder you haven't just dared taking it all
in. How can you be bored when the
sky is so big? When the board is so
interesting, when people are so interested?
When I placed a picture of a Penguin so close to your face
and my sponics in front row at the eye man?
How can you be bored? When the day is so gross, when
the road is so bumpy, When you have an award-winning
entertainer for a father? You've just gone through a
tunnel for the first time. You don't even know what a bird
is. The lying you know tummy comes
as exercise. How can you be bored when this
existence is so utterly and strolling, when this world holds
so much wonder, When it is enough to simply look around,
taking it all in, when your eyes finally closed and you are heavy
on my chest? I want to take a photo, but I'm
too afraid to wait you to decide to.
The rest of the world can wait, because how can I be bored when
you are here, which you are ever.
It is enough to simply sit and stare, taking it's full.
Harry had everybody laughing and crying at the same time.
What a poet. And he speaks from the heart and
has a son of his own. So yeah, that was a beautiful,
beautiful speech from Harry. Next up we have the MP Stella
Creasy. Please don't worry, I'm not
going to attempt to sing. It's absolutely fine.
What I am going to first and foremost do is say that we have
got to give a massive, massive thank you to Jolie and Elliot
for being a continual. They are, and I called it every
time. There are the Dolly and Kenny, a
paid parental leave, the Bell and Sue for Charles and Camilla,
the Superman and Wonder Woman who had literally kept this on
the agenda in politics, rain or shine.
And I am so, so grateful to be on this journey with them
because every single time we get a set back I get a text from
Joni which is like crap on. So can we just give them a
massive round of thoughts Because without them we wouldn't
be able to do this? Hello.
Oh, I know the fat waist right now doesn't look great.
I am hopeful in Jesus Christ. I'm a parent of young kids and
I'm wearing white trousers. Of course, of course I'm
hopeful. But I'm also wearing pink
because pink is my political act in this agenda.
Because of flamingos. A Flamingo goes white after it
gives birth because of the biological exhaustion of looking
after a baby. Every woman in this audience
who's ever done that knows exactly why those flamingos have
gone white. And that's the thing we are
missing. The colour, the creativity, the
productivity, the benefits of women being able to be who they
are all the time, whether they have kids or not in our society,
in our economy, because of the way that we've set things up.
That is why the motherhood penalty exists.
So when I wear pink, it is to remind my colleagues of
everything that we are missing in this world right now because
we haven't sorted this challenge.
Every single woman who is being locked out of the workplace or
feels that she can't be who she is because right now she is just
exhausted. I just want to give a massive
shout out to everybody who's here with a newborn baby.
It is about 1:30 in the afternoon.
You've had about 3-4 hours sleep in chunks and you've shown up.
And I am in awe of you because it is an extraordinary thing to
be able to do. But I'm I'm also in awe of every
dad and second parent who wants to be part of this because right
now you're not part of our conversations in that place and
you should be. And so we are missing out for
you too. This isn't a competition, is
about the collaboration. And what we're trying to do is
the start, not the end of changing things because there is
so much we need to sort out. I want to give a shout out to
every single parent trying to raise children.
I want to give a shout out to everybody with multiple
children. Jesus Christ, the meconium from
one child at a time was enough. I want to give a shout out to
every parent of a child with special educational needs.
Yes, this is a complicated subject, but right now we are
letting perfect be the enemy of goods.
I tabled the amendments, the Employment Rights Act, to get
paid parental leave, not because I thought there was one single
policy, but because I recognize that when we are so far behind
our European counterparts, this isn't what's bad for the
economy. This is good for the economy.
This is good for society. We cannot let the review that we
now have be the reason why we don't make progress now.
I want to give a massive shout out to my partner in crime in
Parliament on this, who's sitting over there now.
I'm a Labour and cooperative MP, JoJo is a Conservative peer.
If that doesn't tell you that, this debate is not business as
usual in that place to me. JoJo and I have been trying to
change the law. We lost the vote in Jojo's house
by 6 votes. That is a margin that we can
overturn, but only with you guys.
When the new parliament returns, we're going to try again.
And I want to thank every single campaign organization who is
helping to make that case and show that actually, when the
world is this uncertain, the thing that we do do are the
things that are good for the economy and good for society.
Because I tell you this, if we don't win the argument, there is
another argument out there that's come into that place too.
It's the argument that says the problem this country has is its
fertility rate is women are asking too much.
Women are not having enough babies.
As if you're all starfish and you reproduce asexually.
It's just about women. Don't be fooled that Handmaid's
Tale agenda is now being actively debated in Parliament
so every single one of you faces a very clear choice.
Never be on the back foot in fighting for the change that we
know will make a difference to every family, in every
formulation, in every community, in every industry, in every
economy. Because if you don't speak up,
well, those other people will. And you've heard that drum beat.
You've heard the people complaining that women aren't
having enough babies. You've heard the women saying,
like Em agreed, that somehow women wanting to work flexibly
are holding themselves back. You've heard Piers Morgan make
fun of men who look after their babies.
If you don't fill the space with your voices, telling my
colleagues this time round we need to see this happen.
Six weeks and 90% pay well, the other debate is going to win.
This is a fight for the future. We want to give every single kid
here so that no more the people feel that the struggle and
juggle is somehow normal. It's not normal.
This shouldn't be that hard. We should all be able to be
Chilly and bandit. I am going to do my level best
to make sure that Jolie doesn't have to keep texting any of us
anymore. But you need to use your voice.
Tell your MP that when those changes come back in the new
Parliament, now is the time for change.
Tell your MP that you will support them.
Whenever anybody says this is somehow bad for business, the
opposite is true. Tell your MP we're not going to
wait anymore because we are too tired, too frustrated and too
busy washing all the yogurt off our trousers and our sofas and
that weird stainless on a jacket that just won't go away.
But you're pretty sure it's not. We haven't got time for this to
be something that's always put on the back burner anymore.
9090% in six weeks is the start, not the end.
Let's get that, and then we can get more.
And then every single one of these young people will never
have to protest for this again. Wouldn't that be a brilliant
thing? Thank you to Stella who always
does a cracking job at these events and I love Terranology of
the Flamingo. Next up we have CBeebies
presenter and dad Venger Nigel Clark.
Hello. Everyone, hello.
Hello. Thank you so much for coming out
today. Thank you to Parenting Out Loud
for organizing it. It's so lovely to see dads,
mums, kids, families all here together because before anyone
has even said a word, that speaks volumes to the people
that work at you there, don't you think?
OK, so. So my name's Nigel, and a lot of
you know me from CBeebies, from educating and entertaining your
children. I'm not going to bust them to
someone right now. The baby friends, the baby tub.
Yet you know how much that show has supported you, OK, And how
much it's supported people in this country.
Imagine if that show wasn't there.
Imagine if CBeebies wasn't there.
It'd be a different place. You'd feel less supportive.
That's feel that way now, don't we?
I would want things to change. Through my work with CBDS, I
have founded an organization called Dad Ventures.
We support dads on their parenting journeys.
And that happened because I saw there was so little support out
there for them. And I've done a lot of work with
expectant fathers through our Expectant Fathers course.
And some of the things that I've heard that that's saying, and
these are like direct quotes, I felt like I couldn't even hold
my baby before I went back to work.
I felt like a spare part in those early days.
And then I got dragged back to the day-to-day.
These people have wanted to help, they've wanted to support,
they've wanted to give their time, but they hadn't been
supported by their workplaces. And that is not fair.
That impact runs deep because those early moments, they aren't
just small moments. I think, and I think you agree
that they are everything. Those are the monies that we
bond with our children. I've had people already come up
to me today and say thank you, Nigel, you helped me so much
when Baby Cup was on you. You helped me bond with my baby.
You helped us have some beautiful times.
If we supported our dads to have those beautiful times,
everything, our economy, our workplaces, our social spaces
will change and that is what we're here for today.
Now The thing is, we already know better.
The research has been done. We know that involved fathers
improve outcomes for children. We know that it supports mental
health. We know that it creates
stronger, more resilient families.
So the question is, isn't doesn't matter.
The question is why aren't we doing more about it?
Why is paternity to be still treated as a bonus instead of a
basic? Why is so many that's forced to
use unpaid leave, annual leave, or simply just to miss out all
together? Why does support depend on where
you work right now? Good support isn't the norm,
it's the exception, and that is not good enough.
Through their benches, we work with organizations to help them
do better, to move beyond the policies that just tick the
boxes to to cultures that genuinely support fathers.
And when these organizations get it right, the change that you
see is immense. That's come back from paternity
leave. More engaged families feel
supportive. Workplaces become stronger.
This isn't just good for families, it's good for business
and it's good for society. So what we're asking for isn't
unrealistic or stupid, is it? Today isn't about confrontation.
It's about visibility. What we're asking for is fair,
it's necessary, and it's long overdue.
It's about making sure this conversation isn't ignored.
It's about the dads that are coming up.
It's about the next generation of dads.
We don't want those dads worrying about spending time
with their kids or going back to work.
We want them to be able to be able to step back after having
paternity leave and feel supported, not sidelined.
So if you're here today, thank you.
If you brought your family along today, thank you.
If you've talked about change like this, if you've shared, if
you've just helped this happen, please give yourselves a
massive, massive round of applause because change doesn't
happen overnight. Change happens when people show
up like you're showing up today. So I want to leave you with one
thing before I go. Years from now, your children
aren't going to remember the emails you sent, the meetings
you were in or how busy work was.
They're going to remember who showed up, who held them, who
supported their mums, who was present when it mattered most.
That is what today is really about.
It's not policy for policy sake. It's not ticking boxes.
It's about giving Vads the chance to be there for the
moments that shape a lifetime. So let's not let this be a one
day conversation, folks. Let's keep pushing.
Let's keep speaking up. Let's keep showing up because
that's do matter. And when Vads are supported,
families are stronger. Thank you.
So grateful to Nigel who's been such an avid supporter of
increasing paternity leave for years.
Next up we have Be a happier parent on Instagram whose real
name is Alex Trippier I I. Cannot believe they put me on
after the CBeebies guy. Like like literally all the kids
are like Nigel's been on Let's go.
Like it's like going on after Taylor Swift.
Can I just? Get a quick show of hands.
Who was brought with them today? A child between the ages of one
and three. Wow, my warriors, That's the
one. That is the age when you're
trying to put them in the pram and they do the prank.
No, I slide down the back of you can't put me in.
I don't miss that. Six weeks with dads.
It's not about dads. I'm going to talk to you about
mums, I'm going to talk to you about kids and I'll leave a bit
of time for dads at the end. My job is trying to understand
why couples fall out so much when they have young kids, why
we think we're going to have this blissful time that's going
to bring us together. But actually, often it really
pushes us apart and I get messages and emails every day
from mums who are overwhelmed, they're exhausted, they're
living on the edge of burnout. And they asked me, can you try
and help me find the words to explain to my partner just how
much I'm carrying? Those are the good emails.
Those are the ones I could do something about.
And they get a lot of interactions from mums who've
given up trying to have that conversation and they checked
out and they are now just looking for a way to leave
without hurting the children. In the last 30 years, the
expectations of parents has skyrocketed.
Our understanding of what it takes to nourish young brains
and bodies has got so much bigger.
Now, you might think some of those expectations were
nonsense. It's irrelevant.
They exist and at the moment they fall squarely on the
shoulder of mothers. Why?
Because we tell them it's their job.
Our parental leave system says that in black and white, Dad,
it's your job. You go back to work as quick as
you can. That is how you're going to look
after your children. You're going to make money, Mum.
You're going to do. Everything else and then you're
going to go back to work and make money because families
can't exist on one income anymore.
And that sticks. It sticks because men don't have
the lived experience of carrying that full responsibility.
We just don't. We don't understand what it's
like. In the same way, mums, you don't
know what it's like to be given the message that actually once
you have children, you're going to crack on pretty much exactly
as you were before, but maybe work a bit harder.
Six weeks at 90% pay will take some of that overwhelming burden
off mothers and it will save relationships.
Kids. My kids are here.
My oldest is 17, my youngest is 13.
No one knows how old the middle child is.
There's a middle child. I hear a lot that this
generation have no confidence and no resilience.
And I'm like, you need to come and meet my kids.
They're like the best people I know, and one of the reasons
they are so resilient, apart from if I ask them to pick stuff
off the floor, in which case they need a mental health day,
it's too much that they can't do that is that they have two
strong attachments, not just one.
I'm one of the lucky ones. I've been able to mold my career
around time with my children. So many families can't afford
that. We know there is an indisputable
link between fathers and resilience and fathers and
mental health, particularly in teenagers.
And that is a relationship that starts early.
You can't just walk in on the 13th birthday and be like, I'm
your dad. Let's talk like you've got
you've got to be showing them that care from early.
It's about trust. Six weeks at 90% pay and we will
have mentally stronger, more resilient children.
All right. Dads, dads, dads, dads, dads,
dads, dad my dad I I don't have to explain this to you do.
I. Like, you get it.
And I'm going to get a bit emotional because I spend a lot
of my time fielding anger towards dads for not doing
enough. And when I try and explain this
to dads, I'm like, look, this isn't your fault.
You didn't create this massive imbalance in expectation, but it
is however your problem. It's your problem and it's your
responsibility to fix it. And that is what I'm looking at.
Here is a bunch of men who are fixing that massive imbalance.
We know. We know that care changes men in
the best possible way. It changes our brain shape.
It changes our hormones. It makes us more empathetic.
Six weeks paternity leave, 90% pay.
We will save overburdened mums. We will save relationships.
We will have healthier kids. And we will build better men.
And we need better men. Thank you.
Alex is so good at understanding the specific challenges that
couples experience because of the system and articulating it
in such a way that you really can't argue with it.
So we're really grateful to Alex for making the time to come and
speak. Next up we have Co founder of
Dadshift, Alex Lloyd Hunter. Hi everyone, I'm Alice Lloyd
Hunter. I'm Co founder of the that
shift. We are a CrossFit campaign to
improve potentially with 10s of thousands of people across the
country. We started the that shift
because we love being dads. I think that fatherhood is the
most incredible thing a man could do with his life and we
exist to help men do more of it. I suspected everyone would feel
the same. And the reality is we are not
alone. This generation of fathers is
leading a revolution in how we see our role in the family.
We are rejecting the model of distant, closed off breadwinner
that was handed down to us by our fathers and our grandfathers
generations. But that cultural shift is
running into the reality of a society and a political system
that still defines us for our jobs.
It defines our wives and our partners through their families.
And so we have a system where we want to do things equally.
But we have mums overwhelmed, drowning with everything at
home, was locked out of opportunities at work, and dads
stuck behind the desk wishing they were at home with their
kids. And our Public Enemy #1 the
thing that is driving that from the first day our kids were born
is our absolutely rubbish paternity leave.
How is it so we are see ourselves as this
forward-looking enlightened country and yet we have the
worst paternity leave in the whole of Europe, even the
Vatican City, a country where it has a lot of celibate priests
and the Pope gets better paternity leave than we do It's
wild. So there's one message I wanted
to give you all today. It might not feel it when you're
needy, pin a proof closure, but parenting is political and we
all have power. Parents have power because this
government was elected off the back of our votes.
Millennials and parents were more likely to vote for Labour
in 2024 than any other demographic group.
And because they are there because of us, that gives us
power. They need to start delivering
for us because the reality is that in this country, parents
are too often hung out to drive opportunity.
Leave. It starts with opportunity, the
worst in Europe. We then have maternity leave
paid at 5 point an hour below the poverty line.
And then when we're back to work, we have to somehow work
out, how do we work until 5:30 and be at the school gates at
3:30? How do we fit 13 weeks of school
holidays into five weeks of annual leave when we don't have
the flexible working rights that will make that possible?
And then our kids go up and they get phones.
And then we have to protect them from the social media that our
government is so far failing to protect them from themselves.
It doesn't have to be like this. And my message is we are going
to be the generation that fixes it.
We're going to hand down something better to our kids and
to the the generations that come after them.
Because parents are the sleeping giant in our politics and we are
starting to realize that. We are starting to learn what
our power is. So the more we do together, the
more we come together when we talk about this on social media,
the more we nag our politicians and when we do stunts and get
ourselves in the news, the more our power grows.
So let's do this. Let's fix this.
Let's get some proper decent potentially that we deserve.
I want to finish by thanking Jolie and Elliot not just for
organizing this, but for being the the OG, the parental leave
campaigning, doing this for years before with that shift
even was a Colonel in my eye. What the phrases.
Also thank you to Stella who was just speaking.
She's been pushing the boulder up the hill in parliament for
years. When no one else is talking
about this. Thank you Stella, and thank you
to everyone. Like the Father Institute here
and here as well. They've been fighting for dads
for decades. All the stuff that that shift is
doing is building on the foundations that these
organizations laid and in particular Jolly and pregnant
and screwed. I really don't think without
pregnant and screwed that that shift could exist because it was
mom's standing up and saying we want our dads.
We want our kids dads to be at home and a bigger part of their
kids lives and made it possible for men to say, actually, yeah,
we want that too. That's OK for us to want to.
So thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Elliot.
Let's keep fighting. Thank you.
Dad Shift have really changed the game when it comes to
paternity leave. Many of us have been campaigning
on maternity leave for years and years and years and we were
really grateful to Dad Shift for coming along and being men
shouting for better paternity leave.
So thank you, Alex, for supporting the March and for
coming to speak. Next up, we have somebody that I
know very, very well, Jolie Braley.
Oh wow. What isn't it guys?
My watch has just told me I need to stretch.
So when I say what do we want? And you say proper paternity
leave and then I say when do we want it?
And you say now I want you to punch the air because we all
need to move a bit. OK, you ready?
What do we want? When do we want it?
Yeah, it's amazing. Wow.
Thank you all for mostly for getting here really safe because
I was responsible for the risk assessment.
And honestly, that thing is the bane of my life.
I was imagining I was having waking up in cold sweats,
imagining like a pile up of prams with some, like, squealing
dabs under it and saying I thought this would be a nice day
out. What have you done to me?
The last time I was here at a protest on Parliament Square was
on a big red bus over here for March of the Mummies, and I
looked out at a sea of hopeful but furious faces.
And at the time I was furious. I was incandescent with rage and
I was crossed because I've been campaigning for eight years and
in that time nothing had changed.
In fact, things have got significantly worse.
The number of women experiencing pregnancy and maternity
discrimination had almost doubled.
Women were having to leave their job because of childcare costs,
which were going through the roof.
The number of women having abortions because of childcare
costs had almost doubled. Flexible working requests were
being called so people were being told they had to get back
to the office and we'd just come out of a pandemic where women
have been giving. Birth alone.
Being war. But today in 2000 and six, 2016,
two, 1026, I'm feeling quite a lot more chill.
So I'm going to talk to you about the motherhood penalty
through interpretive dance. And I want you all.
To join in. Who here knows the Running Man?
Dance. Move.
Come on. Where's Stella?
Stella knows it. Where's Stella?
She's gone. Agnes.
Come on. Right.
I want. Are we going to all learn there?
Agnes, you can do the. Running, man.
I know you can. What are you going to do?
You pick your foot up. You put it down, You switch.
OK, But you're going to move your hands at the same time.
Come on. You ready?
I need some action. Energy.
Let's go. You ready?
Guys and without music, we're going to rebrand that dance move
to the running parents because whilst we continuously feel like
we're running on the spot and we're just not moving forward,
we do, We feel like we're not getting anywhere.
But thankfully things are changing.
They are going to start getting better.
We have an Employment Rights Act thanks to charities and
campaigners and unions and that will give us rights to
miscarriage leave. It will reduce the amount of
Ndas that we see. It will give us better rights to
flexible working. It will mean redundancy
protections for those who are pregnant, those who are on
maternity leave and those who have recently returned to it.
Because we stood out here in 2022 on that big red bus, 15,000
of you came out and marched the more affordable childcare.
We now do have more affordable childcare.
We have the 30 funded hour scheme, which is reduced cost.
I mean it's neither free nor is it 30 hours.
But still, you know, it's a step in the right direction.
And today we are standing here to demand better parental leave
rights for all parents. So we can do this.
We can do this. We've seen it.
Protesting works. You making the efforts come out
today will make a huge difference.
The economy runs on two things. All economies run on this paid
work and unpaid care. For too long we have treated one
as valuable and the other is completely invisible.
Mothers are expected to white knuckle it behind closed doors.
To do. Although often brutal, caring
work and never moan about it, just get on with it.
Whilst we are propping up the economy with our unpaid labours,
we can change that. We will change that together.
Thank. You thank you so.
Much. Yeah, it was worth the wait.
If any of you don't know the running man, then I hope you've
been practising it at home while listening to this.
You know, I may be biased, but obviously that was the best
speech the lot. Next up, we have CEO of the
Fatherhood Institute, Kathy Jones.
Hello. Well done for hanging on in
there. I think it's time to go home
soon, isn't it? You've been amazing with all
your babies. I'm Kathy Jones.
I'm chief exec of the Fatherhood Institute.
And I think it's all been said, and that's wonderful.
So I'm going to keep this really, really short and just
say we're so happy to be here to support this sort of burgeoning
movement and this push the change in the world.
But we've been telling the story of involved fatherhood for for
about 20 years now. And I think it's really
important to remember that the reason we do this is for our
children. And all the research that we
disseminate and publish tells incredible stories about men's
fatherhood and tells us that men were built for fatherhood.
That's what they're essentially here for.
And but they are sort of cruelly prevented from building those
really early attachments in the first period of life in that
critical moment. So I think I want to say we're
here to push, but we're going to need to push, push, push to do
so much more. And the six weeks is just the
start as far as we're concerned. And I think there's something
about how can we take this 1950s model of parenting just so old
fashioned and out of date. It doesn't work for us.
Let's dismantle it and really think about how we can
redistribute care between mothers, fathers and others.
Have a great day. Just lovely to see you and say
thanks. Again, thank you to Kathy.
The Fatherhood Institute have been in this for the long haul.
They are the Dons when it comes to campaigning for better
paternity leave. And finally, you're going to
hear from me again and my Co host Elliot Ray as we close out
the event. I've emailed your MP, don't let
it rest. Drive them in saying go to the
meeting. Things drive them mad.
We can't get this over the line. I am really confident that by
February next year we will have six weeks potentially with 90%
of salary in his. Thanks to all of you for being
here and for taking the time on a bank holiday weekend to join
us. Thank you.
This has been absolutely in frankly, give us another round
of applause. Please.
To all the moms, all the dads, all the beautiful children and
babies, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
The sun has come out for us. We are so lucky.
And as Jody says, we're going to do this right, Our children,
when they have kids, the dads are going to have six weeks at
least pay paternity if they're going to hell.
Yeah. We are changing what parenthood
looks like. We are changing what motherhood
and fatherhood looks like. And we are all involved.
Every part, everyone here has played your part in this
movement. I am so proud.
We are so proud. There's been months in the
making and it's been so, so worthy.
I want to get the end of a quick story.
There's a dad that I know. He has two kids.
His first was born before COVID and he had the two weeks of
paternity leave of his his first child.
He went back to work, got on with it.
The second child was born a couple years later in COVID
actually, and he was able to be there with his kid, wondering
with his kid, doing bath times, doing bed times.
And now years later, his younger kid.
When his younger kid is upset, he goes to his dad for comfort.
When his younger kid needs something for to help him, when
he's got a nightmare at night, when he's not sure of himself,
his first oral call is to go to his dad.
This stuff is around how we increase bonds between dads and
their children. This is in future stuff.
This is important stuff. We are here changing lives.
Thank you so much everyone. We love you all.
Take care, I'll see you soon. So thank you for listening,
thank you to everybody that attended and supported, thank
you to everybody that volunteered and promoted the
event. That was a real community
effort, pulling that off. If you've listened to those
speeches and thought, my God, we need paternity leave, then
please write to your MP. That's something very proactive
that you can do and do it now because the government are
currently undertaking A parental leave review and we need to make
as much noise as possible. Thank you everyone, see you
soon.