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Hello everybody, and welcome to 
season 2 of the To Be a Boy 

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podcast. 
How are you? 

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Back. 
Season 2, baby, we made it for a

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whole season and we're back. 
We survived a whole season. 

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You all seem to be loving it and
we are loving it. 

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I am loving it. 
Are you loving it? 

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I am loving it. 
I mean, when we started this 

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podcast, obviously we we thought
it would be a good idea clearly.

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But yeah, thank you so much. 
Like the feedback has been 

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incredible, Really, really 
incredible. 

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It seems like it's really 
helping people, informing people

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and I'm enjoying it. 
I'm loving it. 

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Like it's really fun. 
It's really fun, yeah. 

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And I mean, it's not only fun, 
but it's teaching us stuff that 

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is so invaluable. 
So I feel like it's a giving me 

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a little manual for how to 
actually parent my two boys, 

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which is brilliant. 
And you know, I've got to say a 

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big thank you to Stephen Graham 
and Jack Thorne for giving us a 

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marketing boost halfway through 
the podcast. 

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That was so good of them to make
that program, just to ensure 

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that people suddenly started 
thinking, what about boys? 

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I mean, the timing of this, the 
timing couldn't have been 

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better. 
Yeah. 

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I feel like we launched at just 
the right time. 

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If we launched after, it would 
have been like, oh, you're just 

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doing this because our lessons 
came out. 

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Yeah. 
And the world started talking 

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about boys. 
It was like, oh, here we are. 

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Yeah. 
There's a podcast about boys. 

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So tell me, Elliot. 
I'm really interested to hear. 

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By the way, Elliot's a little 
bit hungover today. 

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It was his birthday yesterday. 
He's a little bit rough around 

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the edges. 
And you know, as we progress in 

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our into our, into our more 
mature years, drinking all day 

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on a Wednesday is great for the 
next day when you wake up. 

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You know, paracetamol is my best
friend today. 

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And a lot of water, a lot of 
water. 

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But had an amazing birthday 
champagne breakfast at 1019 

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sitting outside in the sun, 
Incredible. 

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And they went to a Turkish 
restaurant with the rest of the 

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family. 
So Well, I'm sure we're all 

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wishing you a happy birthday, 
but also, you're my hero. 

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I can't believe you're actually 
functioning today after a full 

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day of drinking. 
I'd be out for days. 

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Yeah. 
And so give us a bit of a 

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lowdown of what you think you've
learned from Season 1 of the 

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podcast. 
Yeah, I've been thinking about 

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this. 
There's a few things. 

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So the first one that really has
stuck with me is a Nikkei Hutu 

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boss, the NSPCC. 
In our adolescent special 

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episode, she said something 
which just resonated so much. 

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She said you have to insert 
yourself into your child's 

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online life. 
It's just so powerful, you know,

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it just, it just tells us we 
have to be part of that world. 

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And I think I've tried to do it.
It's tough. 

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It's really tough, Yeah, Because
it means you have to 

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consistently do it every day on 
a Saturday. 

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When you're better, how are you 
doing it? 

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What are you doing? 
Not very well. 

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I'm completely honest. 
Like I have good days and bad 

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days. 
Like days when I'm on it and I'm

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like, no, no laptop downstairs. 
What are you doing? 

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Boundaries. 
Get off it at 7:00 PM. 

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Other days where it's a Saturday
and it's raining outside and I 

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just want to chill out and she's
in her room and she's content 

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and I'm resting watching the 
football and she's doing 

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whatever. 
And three hours later I'm like, 

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shit, actually that was not a 
good idea. 

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So it's it's hard, you know, I 
think it's a good reminder, but 

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also the reality is that it's 
like, it's bloody difficult to 

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do it all the time. 
And it just takes real like 

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persistence, real persistence. 
Yeah, I mean, after doing that 

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episode, I banned screens from 
bedrooms and said no more. 

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And my eldest has slowly tried 
to migrate back into his bedroom

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as best he possibly can. 
I've managed to stick to that 

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boundary. 
But I did have an incident 

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actually this morning where my 
eldest son was watching YouTube 

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Shorts, which I hate. 
Just to clarify, I cannot bear 

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YouTube. 
It's basically. 

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A TikTok, right? 
It's Tik. 

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T.O.K and I don't like them on 
TikTok but for some reason I've 

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not allowed it that. 
I told them it was banned but I 

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know they're watching and I 
don't do anything about it. 

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So he's watching YouTube shorts 
this morning this video came on 

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where it was a voice over and a 
woman playing football and a 

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young boy playing football. 
And the voice over said this is 

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a professional female football 
player playing against an 

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amateur 9 year old boy. 
And as you can see, the amateur 

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9 year old boy is better at 
playing football than the 

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professional female football 
player. 

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And that is why the gender pay 
gap is not big enough. 

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And I heard this and when my 
God, what are you watching? 

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And obviously completely lost my
shit rather than dealing with it

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in a really calm collected way. 
I was furious and livid, mainly 

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because I was crossing myself 
that I've allowed him to watch 

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this chewing gum for his brain. 
And then was really, really 

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exposed to some of the messaging
that he's getting from that. 

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So we obviously had a very 
heated document and I told him 

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that he's never watching YouTube
again. 

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And then he left the school and 
I'll have to do some make making

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up when he gets back. 
But it really was a wake up call

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of some of the stuff that 
they're just being thrown at 

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them all the time. 
And do you know what it is? 

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It could just. 
It just takes you by surprise. 

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Yeah. 
It's like, literally, you could 

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just be chilling, right? 
The day's going OK, you have 

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plans. 
And then all of a sudden 

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something just random like that 
pops up and you're thinking, 

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that's not what I was planning 
to do today. 

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Like, how did that enter my 
world? 

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But that's the Internet is that 
you can't necessarily control 

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what's gonna pop up, right? 
It's just the next video, the 

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next video, the next video. 
And that conversation you said 

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there reminds me of there was a 
big debate about, as a man, 

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could you beat Serena Williams 
at tennis? 

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And it's like, you can't fucking
beat Serena. 

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Of course you can't. 
It's like actual conversation 

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amongst men of like, oh, maybe 
you could because you're a man 

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and it's like she isn't like old
class one of the best ever 

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tennis players ever. 
But the conversation, the fact 

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that like like that conversation
was actually a thing, I think 

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just shows like a lot of the 
conversation we had a bit about 

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in this podcast, how, you know, 
we as parents overestimate our 

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boys IQ, for example, we build 
boys up. 

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We we assume boys and men are 
going to be better and stronger,

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etcetera. 
Not saying we shouldn't build 

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our boys up, but not to the 
detriment of women and girls. 

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And so, yeah, I completely hear 
you can be really difficult to 

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just monitor what they're 
watching online and make sure 

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it's healthy. 
So what about you? 

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What else have you? 
Yeah, from season 1. 

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I mean, well, that coupled with 
Lenox Genesi, of course, who we 

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both loved. 
Who a quote that she said that 

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really resonated with me was all
the worry in the world won't 

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prevent death, it will prevent 
life. 

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And that coupled with a quote 
from Jonathan Haidt actually, 

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who hasn't been on the podcast, 
but who Lenore works closely 

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with, where he said we're over 
managing our children in the 

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real world and under managing 
them in the online world. 

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They both really stuck with me. 
And so since doing season 1 and 

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absorbing all of this 
information from experts, I have

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try to limit the screen time 
that my kids have, ask them more

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questions about what what 
they're watching, extract them 

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from the bedroom so I have more 
opportunity to see what it is 

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that they're engaging with. 
But I'm also doing a lot more 

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active socializing with them and
encouraging socializing. 

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And actually that's that's it's 
not easy because when I was 

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younger and set blue haired, 
Sarah, the therapist said this 

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as well on the adolescence 
episode. 

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When I was younger, every 
evening you were around at a 

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friend's house for tea. 
You go around, have tea, have a 

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play date. 
And there's a lot less of that 

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now. 
And so the only way that you can

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ensure that your kids are really
socializing more is by you 

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coordinating it and you hosting 
it. 

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So I'm finding there are a lot 
more kids around at my house. 

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I'm like a little old woman that
lived in a shoe. 

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I'm like, there's kids 
everywhere. 

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They're everywhere. 
And that is joyous and sometimes

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a massive pain in the ass, but I
just want to, I want, I want my 

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kids to have more time with 
other kids as much as possible. 

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And so I'm doing all the work to
try and ensure that that's a 

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reality. 
Yeah, the Lenore episode 

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literally changed the way our 
parent and I think my eldest, 

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one thing she's probably the 
most happy about that we do this

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podcast is that we had Lenore as
a guest is opened up her world 

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is opened up her world to the 
point where, you know, I've said

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it before, I'm letting her walk 
to school. 

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I drop her outside around the 
corner. 

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She'll walk to school. 
Or if we go to the park, she'll 

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take a different route and walk 
home by herself. 

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She's nine years old. 
And now the other day we went to

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Starbucks and there's a three of
us. 

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It's her and my youngest have 
three of us in in the queue and 

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she wants this strawberry drink.
So I said to her, like, I want 

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that drink too. 
Can you order one for me? 

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I'm going to go and sit down 
while you order the drink. 

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And she starts panicking. 
I don't, it's too big of an 

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order. 
It's too complicated. 

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You know, I'm, I'm nine years 
old. 

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I'm like, you've got this. 
It's fine. 

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You can do it. 
So she shows up, I sit down and 

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I can see her ordering and 
talking and, and looking over at

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me for approval. 
And she orders a drink and she 

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orders tea and she gives them 
her name and she sits down and 

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she goes to get the drink. 
And that's what that's it. 

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This is it. 
Like you can have this 

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conversation with an adult. 
You can go into the complexities

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of what you want for your order 
and you can do this. 

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And this is actually the skills 
that you're going to need for 

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life. 
And that is all. 

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Thank you to Lenore. 
So Lenore has literally given my

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kid more freedom. 
It's changed the way our parent.

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If you haven't that episode, go 
back. 

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You have to listen to that 
episode. 

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Yeah, you have to. 
Yeah. 

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Thank you, Lenore. 
I mean, Max Dickens touched on 

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this a bit as well when he said 
when he was younger, when his 

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parents would have friends over 
for dinner, he and his sister 

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were expected to go around and 
take the orders of the adults 

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and deliver them their food and 
deliver them their drinks. 

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And they never complained about 
it because it was just that's 

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what you did. 
And it built skills in them to 

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be able to talk to adults and 
have adult conversation. 

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And I can't, but he was saying 
that and I was thinking, I 

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cannot imagine trying to get my 
kids to go around and serve 

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drinks to a bunch of adults or 
like ask them what it is that 

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they want. 
So I feel like I do sometimes 

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feel like with kids now, we're 
we, we, what's the right word? 

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I feel like our expectations of 
them but sometimes are not high 

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enough of what they're able to 
do. 100% I mean, that Starbucks 

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story right there. 
I know she can do that. 

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I know she can have that 
conversation. 

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She's capable of doing that. 
Like, literally, she gives me a 

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laugh stick every day at home. 
Yeah, like, I know you're witty.

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To somebody else, yeah. 
Exactly. 

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Keep the energy you're gonna 
give it to me at home and try 

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and debate me about these big 
issues way above your age and 

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you're gonna back chat about 
what you don't do or don't want 

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for dinner. 
And you've got all these smart 

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things to say in the home. 
You can 100% do that in 

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Starbucks. 
Like you need to be able to keep

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the same energy when you're 
outside. 

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And that's all I want is I want 
and them to be able to just 

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function and have adult 
conversation and be confident 

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and express themselves and be 
able to just articulate 

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themselves with different human 
beings. 

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And that that is what I think 
Leonor taught us. 

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Another thing that has stuck 
with me, the conversation with 

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November, and this has come up 
quite a few times just around 

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the issue around role models and
everyone's trying to find them. 

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And I think Sarah said in that 
episode that the role models in 

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our community are really 
important. 

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Like the, the, the, the football
coach, the person that leads the

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youth work at church. 
Yeah, those community leaders 

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are, are really key when it 
comes to male role models. 

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And I think sometimes we're 
looking for the celebrity or 

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we're looking for the online 
influence. 

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So, and don't get me wrong, 
those things can be good too. 

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We're just going back to 
community, going back to who's 

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in in our life, who's who's 
around us. 

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And I think that's kind of 
harder to do. 

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It means effort and it means 
engage with people in the real 

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world and in real life and 
trying to, as you were saying 

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with your kids, like curate 
their environment a little bit 

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more. 
But I genuinely think that we're

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missing that. 
And I've just been thinking so 

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much about I guess what we need 
to do as a society, but more so 

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individually to create that 
around ourselves. 

250
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So that's what we really start 
out with. 

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I think men as well need to step
up a bit more in that respect. 

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Like my partner is a football 
coach and he didn't want to ever

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be a football coach. 
He just was left with the 

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situation where our youngest 
either didn't get to play 

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football or he stepped up and 
had to be the coach for the 

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whole team. 
And so he did step up and 

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actually he would say he's got 
more out of it than our son has 

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because he gets to hang out with
other men who he likes, talks 

259
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about football, but also has 
this opportunity to bond with 

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other men that he wouldn't 
otherwise have an opportunity to

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bond with. 
And they go to the pub and they 

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00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,680
drink beer and they talk about 
teams. 

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00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,640
And it's really, it's a 
completely different world to 

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his work. 
And it is so good for him. 

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But also he feels such a sense 
of responsibility now for those 

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kids. 
And he knows that for some of 

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them, football is their only 
structure and without it, they 

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would feel at sea. 
And so, you know, of course, 

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that makes him feel good. 
So I think, you know, I would 

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encourage any men listening to 
this to be that community leader

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because it you'll get a lot out 
of it. 

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And on that as well, an episode 
that really stood out for me was

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with Alex Holmes And listening, 
I didn't say very much during 

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00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,600
that episode because it was such
a privilege to sit and listen to

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the two of you. 
Alpha may heterosexual men, big 

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00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,360
men talk about loneliness and 
depression and mental health and

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men, and I don't think that 
happens enough where you so 

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candidly and it was so raw, 
talked about your experiences so

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00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,440
beautifully. 
And I know that men, male 

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00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,960
friends of mine messaged me 
after that episode and said how 

281
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,680
much it meant to them to hear 
you both talk about that. 

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So I mean, that coupled with the
fact that Alex Holmes's voice, 

283
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,080
my word that that baritone 
voice, I mean, he could make a 

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00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,280
lot of money on the phone lines.
That's all I'm saying. 

285
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:13,760
Only fans, Alex, only fans get 
on there. 

286
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,240
And when you say big, he is big.
He's like 6-2. 

287
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,000
I'm quite a tall man. 
He's a big guy. 

288
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,560
Now that was a special episode. 
And yeah, it's just, it's just 

289
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,640
really amazing. 
I think that the idea that men 

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00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,600
don't talk, but then when they 
do, it's emotion, like so 

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00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,160
emotional. 
I've been, I've been in so many 

292
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,880
conversations with men and when 
they're able to just be honest 

293
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,440
about their experiences, it's a 
really kind of, and it shouldn't

294
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,960
be a unique experience, but it 
is. 

295
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,400
But it's a really emotional, 
sensitive kind of time where you

296
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,880
probably feel the most alive. 
I think because you're 

297
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,240
connecting on a different level 
other than the surface, the 

298
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,560
logic, the competition, the the 
kind of what next? 

299
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,240
It's a it's a different kind of 
level that you're accessing, 

300
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,200
which I think a lot of men don't
get there very often. 

301
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,880
So it's when you do it's, it's 
really, it's a really, really 

302
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,320
special one. 
I think Alex is one of those 

303
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,400
people that has always done that
in every interaction, you know, 

304
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,680
and he's just he's just 
realizing to himself and he 

305
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,320
doesn't try to. 
One thing I like that's about 

306
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,600
Alex episode is that he he 
wasn't trying to come on here 

307
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,800
and like be his best self or or 
sell anything or he was like, 

308
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,160
this is who I am, take me as I 
am today. 

309
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,120
And I think what he did in that 
episode was not just talk about 

310
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,880
the fact that many to be 
vulnerable and open. 

311
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,520
He just was it, and I think that
is rare. 

312
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,000
Sometimes you get people who 
will come along and say the 

313
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,720
right things, but actually 
they're maybe not being that. 

314
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,640
And I think Alex is a good 
example of someone who just is 

315
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,200
that like he is what he talks 
about every day. 

316
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,880
It's lovely to hear that you had
like loads of loads of men 

317
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,040
messaging, which is lovely. 
Sarah said some things. 

318
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,480
That's blue haired Sarah, the 
therapist on the other lessons 

319
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,080
episode. 
She spoke about the fact that if

320
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,440
you're listening to this 
podcast, then you're probably 

321
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,680
doing good, you're probably 
doing OK. 

322
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,840
And that message stood out for 
me because, look, a lot of that 

323
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,560
we talk about, it's quite like 
there's a lot of doom, right? 

324
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,360
There's a lot of like, the 
world's going to shit where 

325
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,520
we're in trouble, it's going to 
end, Boys are in trouble, girls 

326
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,920
are in trouble. 
And it's really easy to be 

327
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,080
negative about everything and 
feel like there's nothing we can

328
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,560
do. 
And I just love that. 

329
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,640
The fact that she said, you 
know, if you're here, if you're 

330
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,160
interested, if you're listening,
if you're dedicating some of 

331
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,320
your time when you could be 
doing anything else to actually 

332
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,520
trying to inform and listen, 
then you're probably doing a 

333
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,720
really, really good job. 
And for the most part, that's 

334
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,800
all that is necessary. 
Like, we don't have to be 

335
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,400
perfect parents. 
Actually being good most of the 

336
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,840
time is probably okay and 
there's some room around the 

337
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,440
edges to get it wrong. 
And our children are still going

338
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,400
to work out to be fully grown, 
healthy people. 

339
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,160
I really like that. 
And I kind of gave me, and I 

340
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,640
think hopefully a lot of people 
like a sense of actually, yeah, 

341
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,960
we're doing all right. 
I mean, that couple with what 

342
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,400
Comrade and James said around 
the fact that their research has

343
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:53,320
shown how kind and thoughtful 
and intelligent and fun this 

344
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,120
generation of kids are, and that
the press and media are 

345
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,320
obviously trying to sell papers.
So they're making everything 

346
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,480
sound terrifying. 
And that the reality is, it's 

347
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,880
not actually. 
Yes, there are some things we 

348
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,599
need to be on the lookout for 
that are new, but the vast 

349
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,200
majority of children and kids 
are doing really well and are 

350
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,560
really happy, contented kids. 
And I found that enormously 

351
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,440
comforting because you do 
sometimes get sucked into this 

352
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,599
narrative that well, it's 
something that Richard Reeve 

353
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,760
said recently in in an article 
the author of of Boys and Men, 

354
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,760
He said we seem to be more 
interested in the trouble that 

355
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,480
boys are causing rather than the
trouble that boys are in. 

356
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,840
And we do seem at all I've seen 
and the press is this fear 

357
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,640
mongering around boys that 
they're, they're going to just 

358
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:50,200
cause problems for everybody 
when that isn't the case. 

359
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,120
And actually, we should be more 
interested in the challenges 

360
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,200
that boys are facing and 
thinking about how our 

361
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,840
generation can help them solve 
those problems rather than 

362
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,520
beating them over the head with 
a stick constantly. 

363
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,600
Yeah, yeah. 
And I think what I'm really 

364
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,480
proud of is I think we're 
getting that balance right, you 

365
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,000
know, reflecting some of the 
real, the real outcomes around 

366
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,560
violence against women and girls
and misogyny. 

367
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,680
That's the reality. 
And, you know, we don't shy away

368
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,520
from that. 
That exists. 

369
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,520
And we need to talk about that. 
And there needs to be 

370
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,280
accountability around that, 
definitely. 

371
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,080
But at the same time, also 
reflecting that boys are in 

372
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,480
trouble. 
Some boys are in trouble, not 

373
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,800
all, but a lot of boys are in 
trouble and they are at risk of 

374
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,160
harming themselves. 
And that's a real conversation. 

375
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,120
And those two things can exist 
at the same time. 

376
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,440
And we can hold those two truths
at the same time. 

377
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,040
I think it's really, really, 
really important to do that. 

378
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,920
I want to give a shout out to 
Amy Lang, the birds and the 

379
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:48,920
bees. 
To be honest, I was surprised by

380
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,040
the feedback. 
You guys want to talk about sex 

381
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,280
like you guys want to talk about
the birds and the bees. 

382
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,120
I hold my hands up. 
I wasn't aware how much, but we 

383
00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,840
need to do more stuff around 
sex, like and how to talk to 

384
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,880
your kids about sex because the 
amount of messages I had, like, 

385
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,920
Oh my gosh, thank you. 
There was so much I took from 

386
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,440
that episode. 
You know, it's clearly something

387
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,960
that parents have been 
struggling with forever. 

388
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,920
Yeah. 
You know, But I think maybe in 

389
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,200
the new world where young people
do have access to information 

390
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,120
and lots of information and porn
and messaging and stuff like 

391
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,120
that, it's maybe even more so 
important for us to get ahead of

392
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,280
it. 
So the Amy Lang episode and the 

393
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,440
stuff that she spoke about in 
regards to how to have the 

394
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,760
conversation, big up, Amy Lang, 
we're definitely going to talk 

395
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,400
more about sex. 
I think people were also 

396
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,920
certainly for me, surprised at 
how young you meant to start and

397
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,760
the content of that 
conversation. 

398
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,760
And I'm really kind of about 
sex. 

399
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,120
I grew up with my mum was very 
open with me about it, so I have

400
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,800
no qualms talking about it. 
But even I took from it, wow, 

401
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,080
there is some stuff that I 
really need to be addressing 

402
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,040
that I felt needs to wait until 
later. 

403
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,480
So oral sex, talking about what 
oral sex is, is something I have

404
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,880
now addressed with my eldest 
son. 

405
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,840
Wasn't the easiest conversation,
I'll be honest. 

406
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,640
I mean, it was kind of 
hilarious. 

407
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,960
I've told a number of my friends
what happened in. 

408
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,680
I laughed about it a lot, but I 
mean, they need to, they need, 

409
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,840
you need to be having this 
conversation with them before 

410
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,560
they go to secondary school. 
Because if you don't bit have it

411
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,880
with them before they go to 
secondary school, you can 

412
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,720
guarantee somebody they'll 
either get a video or they'll be

413
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,280
told by somebody else what oral 
sex is. 

414
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,360
Yeah, Now Season 1 has been 
incredible, so thank you so 

415
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:30,160
much. 
We've learned. 

416
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,400
We've learned so much. 
We've had a laugh and we're 

417
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,360
excited about the incredible 
guests we're going to get into 

418
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,240
Season 2 and the conversations 
we're going to have should go 

419
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,200
into a bit of the feedback. 
Yeah, there's. 

420
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,840
Some people I want to read. 
So we've had loads of emails. 

421
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,960
Thank you so much to everyone 
that's been emailing in. 

422
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,440
There's one guy, his name's 
Rick, not Slick Rick, Rick 

423
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,080
Beasley. 
I was going to read a little bit

424
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,360
of his e-mail. 
He says, Dear Jolie and Elliot, 

425
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,360
I wanted to thank you so much 
for making this podcast. 

426
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,600
My sister-in-law sent me the 
link and she thought I'd like it

427
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,720
and she was right. 
For someone who doesn't listen 

428
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,160
to many podcasts, let alone 
binge them, I end up listening 

429
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,080
to all three episodes in one 
day. 

430
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,920
Wow, Richard, that's a lot of. 
Listen, Richard. 

431
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,040
You and your guests gave so much
helpful, insightful comments and

432
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,760
kind words which are much needed
and I'm really looking forward 

433
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040
to hearing more. 
I'm a stay at home dad and I've 

434
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,680
been for nearly 15 years while 
my wife works. 

435
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,480
Both my children were born in 
Hong Kong and we lived there 

436
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,400
until we moved back to London in
2020. 

437
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,320
It can be lonely for anyone as a
stay at home parent, especially 

438
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,680
on the other side of the world, 
and I've often had a negative 

439
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,480
view of that part of my life. 
However, after listening to your

440
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,280
podcast, I found myself going 
through photos and videos of my 

441
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,040
children when they were younger.
We were slightly different 

442
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,200
viewpoint. 
I realized how incredibly lucky 

443
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,720
I was to be able to spend that 
time with my children and have 

444
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,480
the relationship I do now with 
them now as teenagers. 

445
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,920
I think your podcast is so 
important as there is too little

446
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,720
information entertainment 
regarding positive male role 

447
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,840
models compared to the unstore 
of toxicity out there. 

448
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,120
You guys are awesome as is my 
sister-in-law. 

449
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,160
Take care of yourselves and 
thank you again, Rick easily. 

450
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:02,160
Thank you, Rick. 
It's. 

451
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,000
Very exciting. 
Lovely. 

452
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,960
That means a lot. 
It's a lot being any stay at 

453
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,440
home parent. 
It's hard work. 

454
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,800
You're doing God's work, Rick. 
I haven't been a stay at home 

455
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,560
parent, but I have done a long 
period of maternity leave and I 

456
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,080
found it awfully lonely. 
So yeah. 

457
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Thank you, Rick. 

458
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,680
And I think that amongst the 
loads of messages, it's just 

459
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,840
really nice to know that I think
when you're, when you're 

460
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,960
parenting, it can be isolating 
and difficult. 

461
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,000
And you find that you're just 
doing it myself. 

462
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,080
And, and the fact that we're 
being able to, I guess, be a 

463
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,360
friend and another voice and let
people know they're not alone 

464
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,320
and reflect their reality back 
to them and help to bring on an 

465
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,600
interest in people that have 
like, you know, research and 

466
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,920
insights. 
So incredible, incredible, 

467
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,840
incredible feedback. 
What about feedback you've got 

468
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,400
Jodie? 
What's it? 

469
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,960
What's it saying? 
I have a number of male friends 

470
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,280
who've had a really hard time 
recently. 

471
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,680
They're all dads. 
And they they are the ones I 

472
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,040
would say, who have been 
messaging me the most saying how

473
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,840
much this podcast has meant to 
them because they want to be the

474
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,640
best fathers they can possibly 
be. 

475
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,720
But they also have had mental 
health struggles and are now 

476
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,120
wrestling with these stereotypes
and this feeling that they need 

477
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,040
to not express their emotions 
because that's not what men do. 

478
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,280
Coupled with the fact that they 
know they're really struggling 

479
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,240
and how they deal with it. 
And they've found the podcast 

480
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,520
really helpful. 
So, you know, that's been 

481
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,880
lovely. 
I think people have been crying 

482
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,960
out for this content for a 
really long time. 

483
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,200
So we have got a cracking season
coming up. 

484
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,760
We have. 
We're going to change the 

485
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,800
format. 
We're going weekly, baby. 

486
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,640
We're basically part of your 
lives now. 

487
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,760
This is it, Yeah. 
You're going to have to set your

488
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,800
reminders every Tuesday. 
We want you tuning in. 

489
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,760
We want to know what you think. 
And I are going to have to do a 

490
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,240
lot more thinking, a lot more 
talking. 

491
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:51,440
Yeah, you're. 
Going to see me every week 

492
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:52,880
generally. 
I know I'm looking. 

493
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,080
How do you feel about that? 
I'm looking for that. 

494
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,200
I mean, you know, you. 
I see, just see my family mostly

495
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,680
every single day. 
And then you. 

496
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,360
You and Kaylee. 
I'm looking forward to seeing 

497
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,960
you and Kaylee every week. 
Now we're going, we're going 

498
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,120
weekly and I'm so excited about 
this. 

499
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:11,120
We're going to have an interview
with an amazing special guest 

500
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,800
one week where we delve into 
their expertise. 

501
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,760
You know, they'll talk about 
sex, they'll talk about 

502
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,480
masculinity, all the issues that
we're interested in and you're 

503
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,800
interested in. 
And the other week, me and Jodie

504
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,640
are going to be chewing the fat 
talking about reflecting on that

505
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,520
guests input and views and 
research. 

506
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,640
We're going to be talking about 
current affairs, what's going on

507
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,560
in our own lives that is 
relevant. 

508
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,280
And also importantly, we're 
going to be answering our 

509
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,440
audience questions as well. 
So please do write to us to be 

510
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,440
avoid team@gmail.com. 
We want to hear your questions, 

511
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,600
your suggestions, your 
reflections. 

512
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,760
We're going to make time to talk
about all the things that you're

513
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,760
interested in. 
So let us know like what you 

514
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,880
want us to talk about. 
Any questions you have for us, 

515
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,160
do our best to answer them all 
and. 

516
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,000
The guests we have got coming up
on my I mean even I am impressed

517
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,600
with what we've got coming up 
we've got Are you ready for this

518
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,520
Catelyn Moran? 
I mean who needs no introduction

519
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,480
really, does she? 
But she's obviously written a 

520
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,160
book called What about Men? 
And also is just bloody 

521
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,120
hilarious. 
We've got Josh Sargent who is a 

522
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,120
15 year old boy who has is 
writing a book about red pill 

523
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:27,800
culture. 
So Josh says he became 

524
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,360
interested in masculinity 
influences found a lot of the 

525
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:36,040
content really useful and really
helpful and really positive. 

526
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:42,720
But after a while of navigating 
that world, realized and became 

527
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,440
aware of all the toxicity and 
all the toxic messages he was 

528
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,000
receiving and is now trying to 
distill that into a book to help

529
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,920
parents and help teachers 
understand how to help kids like

530
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,040
him navigate this online world. 
I mean, does he want to be any 

531
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,080
much of an overachiever like 15 
year old writing a book? 

532
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,720
Can't wait to. 
Talk, drink and alcohol behind 

533
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,560
the bike shed and. 
Yeah, 2020 bottles of 2020. 

534
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,200
Oh, you're quite a bit younger 
than me. 

535
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,240
Of Butler Torch 2020. 
Yeah. 

536
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,080
Do you have 2020? 
White. 

537
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,200
What was it? 
White light. 

538
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,480
White lining white lining 2020 I
bottles of hooch but I lived in 

539
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,560
moved to Newcastle when I was 18
so I have to say bottler hooch. 

540
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,480
Botler hooch, Baccardi breezes 
and Baccardi breezes. 

541
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,080
Breezes. 
Yeah, all the Alka pops. 

542
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,800
Going out, having two hooches 
and a Baccardi Breezer, that's 

543
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,320
it. 
Like good night. 

544
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,360
Yeah, not all day drinking like 
you were yesterday. 

545
00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,880
Now you're we've grown up. 
We've got coming on the 

546
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,960
Secretary of State for Science, 
Innovation and Technology, Peter

547
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Kyle. 
So we're going to be asking 

548
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,640
questions about what the 
government is doing, about the 

549
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,200
challenges that kids are facing 
in the online world. 

550
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,440
Then there's your questions. 
For that, we really want to know

551
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,000
what you want to ask Peter Kyle,
what you want to do. 

552
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,680
We have had some. 
I've had a comment come to me 

553
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,680
about how can we challenge what 
the social media companies are 

554
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,720
doing because obviously there's 
a space for parents. 

555
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,080
Of course we can regulate what 
our children are doing. 

556
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,360
I'm looking forward to that 
episode. 

557
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,040
It's gonna be gonna be a 
cracker. 

558
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:17,200
My son wants me to ask him if 
he's allowed to get a phone at 

559
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,160
12 and he said if he says yes 
then I have to get him a phone 

560
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,840
so. 
But you can get him an old Nokia

561
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,920
with Snake on it. 
I've got, he's already got one 

562
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,440
he's already got. 
One, he's got a brick phone. 

563
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,920
Already. 
Yeah, he wants a smartphone. 

564
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,440
Peter Kell say no. 
We've got Jessica Leahy who's 

565
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,040
going to talk about addiction 
and how to ensure that you're 

566
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,960
you reduce the chance of your 
son becoming addicted to 

567
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,080
anything. 
We've got Stephen Biddulph, who 

568
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,920
is legend Don and he wrote the 
original book How to Raise Boys.

569
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,200
Can we just take a second to, to
really to really like take this 

570
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,680
in? 
Steve Bidolf is the legend. 

571
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,400
And the way he speaks is a 
master class in storytelling and

572
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,160
emotion. 
I guarantee you'll be in tears 

573
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,360
for this episode. 
Like, have the tissues ready 

574
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,800
because Steve, he caught me. 
You know, I was just like going 

575
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,640
about my day, but I'm going to 
record a podcast. 

576
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,840
Why am I in tears? 
Listen to Steve Bidolf talking 

577
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,400
about raising boys, please. 
Like I wasn't prepared for this.

578
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,960
Yeah, it was the. 
Moment episode. 

579
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,640
I can't wait for people to hear 
it. 

580
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,000
Yeah, he's incredible. 
And he has just one of again, he

581
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,280
has one of those voices that is 
just stops you in your tracks. 

582
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,040
And so he's not only full of 
wisdom and hope and 

583
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,560
thoughtfulness, but he also has 
one of those voices where you 

584
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,920
just want to just put it as 
close to your ear as possible 

585
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,760
and snuggle up with a nice cup 
of tea. 

586
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,440
Bedtime story voicing. 
Then we've got Uju Asika who has

587
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,320
written the book Raising Boys 
Who Do Better, very much looking

588
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,480
forward to interviewing her. 
We've got Future Men who are a 

589
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:01,240
brilliant charity who work with 
kids in schools and they know a 

590
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,280
lot about what is happening to 
our kids, basically what is 

591
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,440
happening to boys. 
We've got Ben Hurst and Dan 

592
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,080
Guinness from Beyond Equality 
who that is a glorious 

593
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,280
interview. 
They again, they work with kids 

594
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,360
in schools. 
They have been in and out of 

595
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,360
government recently talking to 
the government about what they 

596
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,800
should do. 
They just again have so much 

597
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,320
wisdom and lots, lots more. 
We may as we did with the first 

598
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,880
series, if things happen, we may
jazz it up a bit with a little 

599
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,240
bonus episode. 
Good to talk about a specific 

600
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,840
issue. 
It's going to be a cracker. 

601
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,880
I'm dead excited. 
It is. 

602
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:37,520
It is. 
It is. 

603
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,040
I thank you so much. 
We appreciate you. 

604
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,960
We love you. 
Thank you for listening. 

605
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,040
This is to be a boy podcast. 
We're going to see you next 

606
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:45,640
week. 
See ya. 

607
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,040
I'm a Transformation Director 
with 15 years experience helping

608
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,920
businesses make major. 
I bring a deep understanding of 

609
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,040
problem solving, trend analysis 
and stakeholder engagement. 

610
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,880
I'm able to operate at both 
executive and team level. 

611
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,000
I'm personable and pragmatic 
with a huge passion for my work.

612
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,920
Pregnancy and maternity 
discrimination shreds the 

613
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,760
careers of 74,000 women every 
year at Pregnant and then 

614
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Screwed. 
We can stop it. 

615
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,920
Visit careershredder.com to show
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