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Onward, through our fire and 
blood journey, we continue. 

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Aegon's conquest took a lot of 
preparation, though perhaps less

3
00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:00,060
than one would normally guess at
for an endeavor of this 

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magnitude. 
Perhaps surprisingly as well, he

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announced his claim on the Seven
Kingdoms before making the vast 

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majority of those preparations. 
He didn't even give himself time

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to gear up before putting 
everyone on notice. 

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Was that a mistake? 
If so, not one that made a lot 

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of difference. 
It still all worked out pretty 

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well, but I do rather believe it
to be consistent with his 

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actions throughout both the 
conquest and his reign. 

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He always projects an era, an 
aura, an era. 

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That's an era too, an aura of 
superiority. 

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He never treats anyone like an 
equal, even those who may appear

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to be stronger. 
He just sets about proving that 

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no, they were not in fact 
stronger. 

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He was the one that was 
stronger. 

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And this isn't comes up in a lot
of different ways. 

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Not just militaristically, 
politically intrigue, 

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everything, Just everything 
about Aegon suggests 

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superiority. 
You won't be his ally, you will 

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bend the knee, or else he 
doesn't use a lot of deception 

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or cunning. 
He uses some, but mostly he just

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comes right at you. 
There's definitely a method to 

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this boss attitude, which is 
that no one afterwards can claim

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that he isn't the strongest. 
He leaves no doubt, and it 

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worked. 
He intended for everyone to be 

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in awe of what he and his family
and their Dragons could do, 

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which is a testament to holding 
peace for the long term. 

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No one's going to challenge 
that. 

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Well, then, things are going to 
stay peaceful throughout this 

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episode, and going forward we'll
see just how Agon does it. 

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We'll keep an eye on his 
strategy and all the nuances 

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within, because it sounds very 
straightforward, but it's an 

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intelligent thing. 
It's an intelligent plan. 

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It. 
It's almost ironic, actually. 

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The nuance and subtlety present 
in this extremely direct 

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approach. 
It's remarkably foresighted to 

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right conquer in a way that 
leaves no doubt to how your rain

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will be carried out. 
Face every challenge head on so 

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that the realm doesn't see it as
a close one thing. 

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There's no ifs, ands or buts. 
It was pretty definitive. 

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Make sure everyone knows that 
and make it. 

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If it had been a much bigger 
challenge, a gun still would 

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have won. 
So there's not a lot of room 

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00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,640
there. 
Win by a long, you know, win by 

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a mile. 
And what's anyone going to do 

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about it? 
Well, they're going to be cowed,

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probably. 
All that and more on this 

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episode of History of Westeros 
podcast. 

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You say 6 out of seven were 
cowed, 6 out of seven were cow. 

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That's right. 
Hello and welcome everybody. 

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This our live streams for Fire 
and Blood, as all of our live 

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streams are except during TV 
season, are at 3:00 PM on 

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Eastern on YouTube. 
Every video is on YouTube and 

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Spotify afterwards. 
That's right, all the videos are

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on Spotify. 
All the fire for at least for 

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the run of Fire and Blood, every
episode is posted as a video. 

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Audio only episodes are 
available everywhere you find 

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podcasts, and they're ad free if
you listen to them on Patriot. 

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There's no ad free videos on 
Patreon, though unfortunately, 

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there's just too much bandwidth.
Videos are much, much much much,

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much, much, much, much much 
larger than audio files. 

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It's hard for us to have 
multiple copies of those. 

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But anyway, we give you lots of 
choices, different ways to 

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experience our show. 
How's it going, Shawn? 

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Looks like you got some red and 
black there. 

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You're very Targaryen looking. 
Yeah, it might be hard to see 

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the detail, but these are 
intertwined. 3 intertwined 

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Dragons very appropriate. 
My shirt also a little hard to 

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see, but I got Dragonstone on my
shirt. 

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Also I got similar colors. 
I got a little yellow in mind 

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for the for the clouds and sun, 
but the red of the mountains. 

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And I got this plant dangling 
here in front of me to to make 

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it even harder to see my shirt, 
you know? 

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Whose shirt is hardest to see? 
Yours. 

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00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,280
Yeah. 
Well, what is it? 

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Though I'm wearing a Game of 
Owns shirt. 

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Nice shout out to Game of Owns 
Yeah I. 

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Am I also have a cat in my lap 
under a blank? 

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No. 
Very warm cat. 

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Fire and cuddles. 
Yeah, fire and purrs. 

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I don't know. 
We'll work on that workshop, 

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that one. 
Don't think there's no blood 

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cats. 
Claws are sharp. 

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They are, yes. 
Even when they're being cuddly, 

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they cut you. 
And what about that drink that 

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is bright red, sharp? 
Yeah, I was going to say I got a

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blood red drink here. 
It's it's a little diluted from 

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ice, but it's just blood. 
Yeah. 

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So it's fire. 
It's blood and ice. 

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So fire and blood. 
Fire. 

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You got blood and ice? 
Yeah. 

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There you can hear the ice 
clinking. 

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I, of course, just have coffee 
in a mug instead of a 

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thermostat. 
Very different. 

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This is the Rainbow machine 
naked drink. 

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I mean, I've also have like a 
bang and a Mountain Dew and 

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sparked my ice mixed in there, 
but. 

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Of course, of course, of course,
Yeah, of course, yes. 

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Everyone is with you on that. 
The The Rainbow Machine naked 

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drink is thick blood red. 
Shout out to our good friend 

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Nina. 
Check her out at 

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goodqueenalley.tumblr.com. 
That's 1L1, Ellen Alley. 

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Two Ends though. 
And Allison. 

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But it's good Queen Alley. 
So there's no. 

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Elves and good and queen? 
None. 

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00:06:00,940 --> 00:06:06,100
Actually. 
It's not glued Queenal Alley. 

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The latest blog post is 
regarding a question she 

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received about Catlin and 
approving of Aria's interests in

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swords and horses. 
And the question is basically, 

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if Aria had done well at 
courtesy and etiquette, would 

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Catlin have been more forgiving 
about her taking on quote, UN 

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quote, you know, man's tasks? 
Aria was clearly into the 

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patriarchy. 
She looked horses as soon as 

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she's learned the patriarchy 
wasn't just about horses. 

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This is terrible. 
So yeah, Throughout this 

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episode, we'll encounter topics 
that we've done full episodes on

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already, and we'll point them 
out as we go along. 

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So at the end, we'll list some 
of those off, and you can check 

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them out if you haven't already 
or have a long ago and are 

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thinking of staying immersed in 
Westeros and the wonderful world

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00:07:02,010 --> 00:07:06,050
of a song by fire. 
If you want more, we've got you 

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00:07:06,050 --> 00:07:08,210
covered. 
The list of episodes we have 

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00:07:08,490 --> 00:07:10,970
that are connected to these 
topics today, as I said last 

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week, is long. 
A lot of O's in long a couple of

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ends, maybe a couple of G's. 
Yeah, all that. 

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I wanted to make a quick note 
about your intro. 

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I mean, there's a lot of notes 
to make and Aaron will go on 

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about a lot. 
But but just going back to 

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something we talked about last 
week, is it, I think Aegon might

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have planned this better than it
seems on the surface, like you 

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said, some of this coming at you
straight on. 

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It seems that way because he 
chose the moment when he was 

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able to come at you straight on.
That makes sense, like. 

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And and to be fair, he didn't 
come at everyone straight on, 

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00:07:50,740 --> 00:07:52,380
right. 
Yeah, I think that he knew he 

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00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:56,220
needed to go after Heron 
straight on and it by doing that

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00:07:56,220 --> 00:07:59,700
other people would count, they 
would be happy he did it would 

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00:07:59,700 --> 00:08:02,420
realize that they couldn't beat 
him if Heron couldn't and 

141
00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:05,700
etcetera, etcetera. 
So I think that that I just want

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00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:07,500
to give him a little bit more 
credit for. 

143
00:08:09,070 --> 00:08:12,510
Not just being like I'm stronger
than you bow to me, I I think 

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00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:14,070
there are. 
Even though on the surface it 

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00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:15,790
seems like that. 
I think there was a lot of 

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00:08:15,790 --> 00:08:19,870
strategy behind the moments and 
that he chose in the order that 

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00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:24,390
he chose to of his battles, I 
agree, allowed for that 

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00:08:24,510 --> 00:08:28,910
superficial impression. 
It wasn't like his only move or 

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00:08:28,910 --> 00:08:31,670
that his ego drove him or pride 
to do that. 

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00:08:31,670 --> 00:08:34,950
It was calculated like this is 
how King should behave. 

151
00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:38,070
I'm going to do fall, fall 
within these lines of what I 

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00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:40,570
think the right attitude to 
project is. 

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00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:43,929
And he was naturally pretty good
at it. 

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00:08:43,929 --> 00:08:46,210
On top of all that, I think, And
that maybe is what makes it seem

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00:08:46,210 --> 00:08:49,330
like it was just his only his 
only gear that happened to work.

156
00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:51,570
But no, I agree with you. 
I think there was a lot of 

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00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:54,650
method to that socalled madness.
The Targaryen coin flip. 

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00:08:54,690 --> 00:08:57,770
There's a lot of genius, and 
this was a genius flip, not a 

159
00:08:57,770 --> 00:08:59,370
madness flip that happened to 
work out. 

160
00:09:00,490 --> 00:09:06,010
And that is another dynamic of 
worst strategy I guess, is it? 

161
00:09:06,610 --> 00:09:09,170
There's a lot of value to 
winning overwhelmingly. 

162
00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:12,170
Not only the stability that you 
get after the fact, but there's 

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00:09:12,170 --> 00:09:14,810
just less casualties. 
You have a close pitch battle 

164
00:09:14,810 --> 00:09:16,210
that stretches out for a long 
time. 

165
00:09:16,210 --> 00:09:19,370
So many more people die, but 
when you win decisively, there's

166
00:09:19,370 --> 00:09:22,370
less casualties and there's less
strife after the and you're with

167
00:09:22,370 --> 00:09:25,290
that boss attitude as well. 
Or if you intend to continue 

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00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:30,290
conquering, after you know what 
stepping stones you take one foe

169
00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:32,190
down, you move on to the next 
one. 

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00:09:32,190 --> 00:09:34,510
You want to add as many of their
soldiers to your army as 

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00:09:34,510 --> 00:09:36,750
possible, so you also don't want
to kill them all. 

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00:09:36,750 --> 00:09:38,190
And you know also don't want to 
kill a lot of them. 

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00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:40,630
But if it's a close run thing, 
that's that tends to be the 

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00:09:40,630 --> 00:09:42,270
result. 
When two sides are evenly 

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matched, they have to wear each 
other down. 

176
00:09:44,030 --> 00:09:46,350
But if one can just dominate the
other one right away, then it's 

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00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:49,470
just over and they and fewer 
things are destroyed like. 

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00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:51,830
And whether that's going to be 
used for future conquest or just

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00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:54,510
people are still alive, that's a
good thing in and of itself. 

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00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,640
Right. 
Even what you want to rule, like

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00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,640
beyond just the the winning of 
the battles at the initiation of

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00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,200
the conquer. 
But the thing you conquer, you 

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00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,040
don't want to be ashes. 
You don't want to be a bunch of,

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00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,840
like, orphans and people mad at 
you. 

185
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,920
You know, you'd rather it be a 
land that's still stable and 

186
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,160
intact, that had minimal 
casualties. 

187
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,240
That that is thankful for you 
having gotten rid of the 

188
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,320
villain, Heron or whoever and is
trusting of your decisions to 

189
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,560
manage things well. 
Because like you said to his 

190
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,360
boss, attitude wasn't total 
arrogance or or a bully, right? 

191
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,040
He he, he wasn't just there to 
like push everyone around. 

192
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,800
He was there to unite the realm 
so that there would be peace and

193
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,520
stability. 
And, you know, maybe he had some

194
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,640
personal ulterior motives, but 
whatever they were, they didn't 

195
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,690
seem to be, so he could. 
Rape all the women, or take all 

196
00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:45,210
the gold back to Valeri or 
whatever else? 

197
00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:48,210
He seemed to just rule 
calculatedly. 

198
00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:52,650
Well, I'll say, you know, for an
extended period of time to be 

199
00:10:52,650 --> 00:10:57,810
fair, a lot of these things fall
off when we get to Dorn, like he

200
00:10:58,010 --> 00:11:00,890
did just kind of destroy it all 
because they didn't tend to need

201
00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:02,970
it, just it was like, well, if 
I'm going to destroy, I have to 

202
00:11:02,970 --> 00:11:06,090
destroy now that. 
So he was willing to do that if 

203
00:11:06,090 --> 00:11:08,810
it came to that, but it was 
definitely not plan A or 

204
00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:11,880
probably even Plan B. 
So there's definitely some 

205
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,000
negative aspects to that. 
And but you know, that's all 

206
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,320
part of the picture here. 
We'll be covering it all as we 

207
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,760
move forward. 
Let's, let's do our trivia 

208
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,720
question real quick. 
Who's the only person we know of

209
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,040
the strike egg on the Conqueror 
with a blade? 

210
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,400
Now, there are probably some 
other cases, but we don't know 

211
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,000
them or we don't know them by 
name. 

212
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,640
We know that there were 
assassination attempts, things 

213
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,200
like that. 
But there's only one that I 

214
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,600
could find where someone 
actually cut him. 

215
00:11:39,410 --> 00:11:44,050
So who was that that did that? 
Let's start with the claim 

216
00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:47,810
claiming Westeros that started 
with sending out a bunch of 

217
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:50,290
Ravens. 
It's a status parallel sending 

218
00:11:50,290 --> 00:11:53,850
out Ravens to the entire realm 
claiming to be king, only to be 

219
00:11:54,090 --> 00:11:56,610
met with scorns. 
To be fair, Stannis was met with

220
00:11:56,650 --> 00:11:59,290
more scoring than this, though. 
Also to be fair, we don't 

221
00:11:59,290 --> 00:12:01,130
exactly know the level of 
scoring he's gone. 

222
00:12:01,130 --> 00:12:03,210
Egg on here. 
Either way, here's the quote. 

223
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:07,670
On the 7th day, a cloud of 
Ravens burst from the towers of 

224
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:11,750
Dragonstone to bring Lord Agon's
word to the Seven Kingdoms of 

225
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:15,950
Westeros to the Seven Kings. 
They flew to the citadel of Old 

226
00:12:15,950 --> 00:12:18,830
Town to Lord both great and 
small. 

227
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:23,790
All carried the same message. 
From this day forth there would 

228
00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:28,710
be but one king in Westeros. 
Those who bent the knee to Agon 

229
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:32,110
of House Targaryen would keep 
their lands and titles. 

230
00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:36,190
Those who took up arms against 
him would be thrown down, 

231
00:12:36,350 --> 00:12:39,950
humbled, and destroyed. 
Cue the little man from O 

232
00:12:39,950 --> 00:12:42,470
brother, Where art thou saying 
he ain't lying? 

233
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:46,150
Now, of course, it turns out 
that candidate that. 

234
00:12:46,190 --> 00:12:51,190
The dragon this little man was 
stamping standing for turned out

235
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:53,590
to be a white supremacist, a KKK
member. 

236
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:56,030
So we'll forget that part. 
But hey, these are the TARG 

237
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:58,310
Aryans, right? 
So hey, it kind of kind of 

238
00:12:58,310 --> 00:13:00,490
works, right? 
But that is exactly what 

239
00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:02,850
happened. 
Those who took up arms against 

240
00:13:02,850 --> 00:13:05,530
him were thrown down, humbled 
and destroyed for the most part.

241
00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:09,690
There may be an exception or 
two, but yeah, that was what a 

242
00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:11,570
message to receive. 
You're like, imagine you're like

243
00:13:11,690 --> 00:13:14,250
the Lord of Catholic Rock, which
is this time was Lauren the 

244
00:13:14,250 --> 00:13:16,930
first Lannister and later Lauren
the last? 

245
00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:20,130
Because we know how that went. 
What do you do if you're him? 

246
00:13:20,130 --> 00:13:22,290
You're like, this guy just 
claims to be king of us all. 

247
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:27,770
Now you've been king of a line 
that's been in place for like 

248
00:13:28,340 --> 00:13:31,340
8000 years. 
Who is this guy? 

249
00:13:31,340 --> 00:13:34,060
Like he's saying he's king of 
all of us now. 

250
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:37,780
Like they've all been squabbling
with each other. 

251
00:13:37,780 --> 00:13:40,460
It's said that there's been 
there's hardly a year goes by 

252
00:13:40,460 --> 00:13:44,340
where one Kingdom doesn't fight 
another and the kingdoms are 

253
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:47,570
largely have the same borders 
they've had for a long time like

254
00:13:47,570 --> 00:13:50,490
maybe here and there border gets
pushed inward a bit but then he 

255
00:13:50,490 --> 00:13:53,130
gets pushed back and then a 
little way or the other not 

256
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,410
large changes other than what 
was happening in the Riverlands 

257
00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:57,730
which was pretty substantial but
that has state of affairs had 

258
00:13:57,730 --> 00:14:02,570
been going for hundreds of years
too So what a thing to react to.

259
00:14:02,650 --> 00:14:07,090
It's hard to put yourself in 
those heads of these very proud,

260
00:14:07,490 --> 00:14:10,170
long, longstanding families like
the Gardeners. 

261
00:14:10,170 --> 00:14:12,490
Even more so would have been 
prouder than the Lannisters. 

262
00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:16,530
And because their family is like
perhaps the most celebrated 

263
00:14:16,530 --> 00:14:19,530
family in Western maybe not even
perhaps because of all the 

264
00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:22,330
different families that believe 
their family traces to Garth 

265
00:14:22,330 --> 00:14:26,570
Greenhand and the gardeners like
at the top of that family tree 

266
00:14:27,650 --> 00:14:30,610
them most of all, perhaps would 
be like This is particular. 

267
00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:32,530
Of course we're not going to 
what a what a jerk. 

268
00:14:32,530 --> 00:14:33,730
We're not going to stand for 
this. 

269
00:14:33,730 --> 00:14:37,410
Of course we'll face this man 
and set him back and and show 

270
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:41,530
him what for or whatever they 
whatever language they used. 

271
00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:45,090
So that would be Merlin the 9th 
who would be saying that and his

272
00:14:45,090 --> 00:14:47,850
family would be probably pumping
him up like yeah, that those 

273
00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:52,290
that silly island Targaryen guy.
What's he thinking? 

274
00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:54,290
You know this is this is a huge 
insult. 

275
00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:59,250
We'll show him, you know. 
You know, from a from from 

276
00:14:59,250 --> 00:15:02,770
several different angles, I 
suppose even if someone did 

277
00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:05,970
realize if this guy is really 
coming after us with Dragons, I 

278
00:15:05,970 --> 00:15:07,050
don't think we can beat him 
there. 

279
00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:09,290
There were probably at least a 
few people that had that 

280
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:11,010
insight. 
Maybe not the Kings, but some 

281
00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:14,980
people, yes, yeah. 
And but they probably still 

282
00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:17,580
knew. 
The king can't just be like, all

283
00:15:17,580 --> 00:15:20,980
right, sure, you know they have 
to make a show of force. 

284
00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:24,300
They have to at least 
superficially call the banners, 

285
00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:29,500
say, who do you think you are? 
You know any guy probably had 

286
00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:30,980
to. 
He probably knew they wouldn't 

287
00:15:30,980 --> 00:15:32,340
just be like okay, Sure you 
know. 

288
00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:34,700
He knew that there would have to
be some show of force, some 

289
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:36,460
battles, some blood's going to 
have to be shed. 

290
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,240
But, but again, I've he, and 
probably the wiser of the 

291
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,040
rulers, wanted to keep it to a 
minimum. 

292
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,680
Yeah, I agree. 
I agree. 

293
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,080
For example, Torrance Stark, he 
did exactly what you said he did

294
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,400
down the knee what he marked. 
He gathered his army in March S 

295
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,200
1st and it was after he saw 
Heron Hall was like, Oh my God, 

296
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,600
look at that. 
He burned Heron Hall. 

297
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,600
It's melting, that thing. 
Like his Lords and soldiers all 

298
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,680
saw that too. 
So they had the visual evidence 

299
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,070
and that maybe would enable him 
to bend the knee with fewer 

300
00:16:05,070 --> 00:16:06,990
people complaining about it 
because they all saw what he 

301
00:16:06,990 --> 00:16:08,310
saw. 
And we're like, yeah, we don't, 

302
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:11,750
we don't want to fight that. 
That said, several people were 

303
00:16:11,750 --> 00:16:17,550
still willing to fight that, as 
we're saying, but we'll get to 

304
00:16:17,550 --> 00:16:20,750
that later. 
So instead of the little man 

305
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:24,430
from O Brother, where art thou, 
We have Lord Monkeyface to utter

306
00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:26,750
the line in Westeros. 
Lord Monkeyface is not a little 

307
00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:28,830
person. 
He is her suit and hunchback, 

308
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:30,510
though. 
A court fool. 

309
00:16:30,830 --> 00:16:36,150
Vasenia's fool, and not little 
as far as we know, called Lord 

310
00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:39,110
Monkey Face because of all his 
hairiness, I think. 

311
00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:42,830
And maybe a little more about 
Lord Monkey Face later. 

312
00:16:42,830 --> 00:16:45,070
That's again Vesenia's. 
And we're not sure when Lord 

313
00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:49,350
Monkey Face died, but sometime 
before Vesenia. 

314
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:53,270
So that's all we know. 
Vesenia lives for quite a while 

315
00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:55,510
after this. 
The seven Kings weren't of 

316
00:16:55,510 --> 00:16:58,810
course all kings. 
There was King Ronald Aaron, but

317
00:16:58,810 --> 00:17:01,170
Ronald was a boy. 
So effectively in charge was 

318
00:17:01,170 --> 00:17:06,730
Queen Regent Shara Aaron, 
Princess Maria Martel, the 

319
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:09,650
Yellow Toad. 
Also not a king, but the 

320
00:17:09,650 --> 00:17:12,890
equivalent of a king. 
King Lauren, the Lannister, we 

321
00:17:12,890 --> 00:17:15,210
said. 
Lauren the first King Marin, 9th

322
00:17:15,210 --> 00:17:19,730
Gardner, King Heron, whore, the 
Black King Torrent Stark, the 

323
00:17:19,730 --> 00:17:21,490
King of Nel and King Argalac 
turned. 

324
00:17:21,490 --> 00:17:25,140
And now King Argalac, surely one
of those who was like, I'm not 

325
00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:29,100
bending the knee like you don't 
get a name like arrogant for and

326
00:17:29,140 --> 00:17:30,700
just bend the knee without a 
fight. 

327
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:33,860
This guy went down swinging as 
much as anyone. 

328
00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:36,660
But again, we're not quite there
yet. 

329
00:17:37,660 --> 00:17:41,540
Even he though going down 
swinging, prideful and arrogant 

330
00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:45,620
as he may have been, didn't ruin
his troops. 

331
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:48,020
He didn't ruin his land. 
He didn't send everyone else 

332
00:17:48,020 --> 00:17:51,460
into the suicide mission. 
That's true one. 

333
00:17:52,340 --> 00:17:54,500
Unsurprisingly, no. 
As Sean said, no one actually 

334
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,380
bent the knee. 
Some definitely held back, 

335
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,420
though not everyone rushed to 
fight him. 

336
00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:01,140
It was not like they were all 
eager to get him. 

337
00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:05,300
They may have wanted to get him,
but they weren't eager to do it 

338
00:18:05,580 --> 00:18:08,460
for obvious reasons. 
Just to clarify, no one 

339
00:18:08,460 --> 00:18:09,700
immediately bent the knee, 
right? 

340
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:13,900
No one immediately bent the knee
other than, I suppose, his 

341
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:15,900
existing vassals. 
But they were already his 

342
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:17,180
existing. 
They'd already bent the knee. 

343
00:18:17,180 --> 00:18:20,020
Now they were re bending the 
knee to a king instead of a 

344
00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:22,100
Lord. 
Not a big difference given it's 

345
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,500
the same person, although a big 
difference in terms of what they

346
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,100
were about to be asked to do 
like oh boy, here we go. 

347
00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:32,180
Valerian and Celtic are and all 
them are like here we go. 

348
00:18:33,820 --> 00:18:39,460
Now one famous and important 
example of holding back entirely

349
00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:44,540
and not fighting at all is the 
High Septon and thus Lord 

350
00:18:44,540 --> 00:18:47,450
Manfred Hightower, the Lord of 
the Hightower at the time, 

351
00:18:47,490 --> 00:18:52,650
something we cover in our Under 
the Dragons episodes there for 

352
00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:55,650
House Hightower. 
So that's a pretty big deal to 

353
00:18:55,650 --> 00:18:59,970
have the High Septon say, let's 
not do that, which immediately 

354
00:19:00,410 --> 00:19:04,370
pulled a lot of troops back 
from, Well, from death because 

355
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:06,410
they probably would have just 
been burned on the field of 

356
00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:07,530
fire. 
I don't think they would have 

357
00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:09,490
made any difference. 
So it was a good thing the High 

358
00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:14,640
Septon did, whether it was truly
a vision or just something he 

359
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,960
played off to for maximum 
effect, which I definitely 

360
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,920
leaned towards that because it 
was exactly 7 days and it just 

361
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,200
so could be everything was very 
convenient about it, but it's 

362
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,720
the good kind of convenience. 
This is not the kind of 

363
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,760
politicking I'm cynical about. 
Like, yes, this guy used 

364
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,520
politics to save lives. 
Good for him. 

365
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,760
He may have been thinking of his
own life, but he certainly did 

366
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,600
it in a way that saved a lot of 
people's lives. 

367
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,240
And Lord Manford Hightower as 
well. 

368
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,320
On the other hand, there was an 
exception to them not working 

369
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:46,720
together. 
That's an interesting point 

370
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,560
here, is that if they wanted to 
take on Aegon, why didn't they 

371
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,840
team up? 
Why didn't they gang up on him? 

372
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:53,720
Why didn't they work together to
fight him? 

373
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,240
Well, in part because they had 
rarely done so in the past. 

374
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,440
They don't get along very well. 
They don't have strong 

375
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,680
relationships. 
They don't probably talk that 

376
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,720
often anyway. 
So it they're very proud people.

377
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,080
It's hard for them to work 
together. 

378
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,060
How do they even? 
Meet where do they even meet? 

379
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:13,380
Like, where is the neutral, 
center, central location for 

380
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:15,420
them to meet? 
And if they do that, are they 

381
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:19,220
risking some sort of attack by 
gathering in a place where 

382
00:20:19,220 --> 00:20:22,100
someone could get them all at 
once but one? 

383
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:24,660
And how long would it take to 
get there and how long would it 

384
00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:26,060
take to get there? 
How much time do they have? 

385
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:29,340
With the agreement made while 
they were there still be in 

386
00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:31,500
place, given all the other 
changing factors by the time 

387
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,580
they got back. 
So on the other hand, there was 

388
00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:35,740
an exception to them not working
together. 

389
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,580
There were a few offers to work 
with Agon, we'll get to those in

390
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:41,340
a minute. 
King Merne rode to meet with 

391
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:43,700
King Lauren, so they had a 
meeting, apparently in Castley 

392
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:45,380
Rock. 
So that's that's a safe place to

393
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:47,780
have a meeting. 
Castley Rock, one of the safest 

394
00:20:47,780 --> 00:20:49,340
places there as well. 
At least if you're a Lannister. 

395
00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:51,700
Although there's exceptions to 
that too. 

396
00:20:52,420 --> 00:20:54,860
Like if you're a casterly and 
land, the clever's coming for 

397
00:20:54,860 --> 00:20:57,500
you. 
But hey, King Merne and King 

398
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,500
Lauren clearly had a discussion 
that eventually led to them 

399
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:04,380
uniting their armies, which 
battle is still a ways away. 

400
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:06,190
It's a big old matter point 
though, isn't it? 

401
00:21:06,190 --> 00:21:09,590
The fact that they couldn't 
unite against a common enemy is 

402
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:12,910
a reason why Westeros needed to 
be united, if Agon's dream was 

403
00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:16,230
driving him at all here. 
It's just driving that point 

404
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:18,470
home. 
Like when when it comes look at 

405
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:20,350
these people, they just fight 
each other. 

406
00:21:20,350 --> 00:21:22,350
You know, like that's not going 
to work in the long term. 

407
00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:25,550
You got to be united for the 
real threatening common enemy. 

408
00:21:26,030 --> 00:21:27,950
If you can't unite now, you 
won't unite later. 

409
00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:30,190
So this is a way that he can 
justify it. 

410
00:21:31,780 --> 00:21:32,940
That's the argument. 
Anyway. 

411
00:21:32,980 --> 00:21:35,780
The conquest is justified 
because it unites the realm for 

412
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:38,340
the coming darkness, and it 
created so much peace before 

413
00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:40,780
that. 
Like fewer lives were lost per 

414
00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:43,700
year after the conquest than 
before, I think by a lot. 

415
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:49,060
So it's one of those things 
where sometimes, you know, if 

416
00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:51,500
you prefer peace in the real 
world, it's like, well, there 

417
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:54,980
are times like this where 
strength creates peace, but 

418
00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:56,940
people die. 
And to set that up. 

419
00:21:56,940 --> 00:21:58,820
And that's where the moral 
conundrums come in. 

420
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,440
Why do some people have to die 
for other people's peace? 

421
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,440
There's other yeah, too deep for
us to get into problem, but 

422
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:03,800
probably. 
You know, well, I don't know 

423
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:11,400
big. 
But there's other sacrifices to 

424
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,320
be made, right? 
So for the sake of peace, you 

425
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,240
might sacrifice independence and
liberty and tax money and so on.

426
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,520
Else, you know, yes. 
And if we're being fair to date,

427
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,240
who's wrought more destruction 
on the Seven Kingdoms? 

428
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,820
Dragons or the others? 
Probably Dragons. 

429
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:31,500
Almost certainly Dragons. 
But give it time, give it time. 

430
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:33,340
We'll see. 
We'll we'll revisit that 

431
00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:36,100
question at the end of it all. 
It still might be Dragons, 

432
00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:38,700
especially if you could include 
metaphorical Dragons like the 

433
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:42,780
Targaryens, but that's a 
conversation for later. 

434
00:22:42,780 --> 00:22:44,140
Very good question, though, to 
think about. 

435
00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:45,500
Put that in the back of your 
mind. 

436
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:49,750
Marinate on it for a minute or 
for a longer time, and Nina 

437
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:52,190
adds, it's not like the various 
native rulers of Westeros were 

438
00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:55,070
all evil oppressive overlords 
who enjoyed making people 

439
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:58,470
suffer. 
Her and whore being an exception

440
00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,750
to that rule, he definitely made
people suffer. 

441
00:23:00,750 --> 00:23:02,630
I don't know if he enjoyed it, 
but he definitely did it, so it 

442
00:23:02,630 --> 00:23:04,270
doesn't really matter if he 
enjoyed it or not. 

443
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:08,230
If presented the choice, would 
they have refused to fight the 

444
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:09,470
others if they had actually come
with? 

445
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:12,270
These Lords have just refused to
unite against that common enemy.

446
00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:14,790
If it was actually presented to 
them, we don't know. 

447
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,320
Well, we'll probably find that 
out in A Song of Ice and Fire, 

448
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,800
because some of them probably 
won't, but a lot of them 

449
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,680
probably will, and it'll be 
really interesting to see where 

450
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,160
those chips fall. 
Here's the thing. 

451
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,200
Even if they did agree to work 
together because this real 

452
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,840
threat was coming, wouldn't it 
be nice to have already been 

453
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:31,880
working together? 
So we'll. 

454
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,280
Probably have a structure in 
place and a system of chain of 

455
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,360
command and everything else. 
Even if they did at the last 

456
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:40,640
minute realize they need to work
together, it might be too late 

457
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,760
because they don't have enough 
organization and trust and 

458
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,520
everything else. 
That's a good point, yeah. 

459
00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:51,570
If they Westeros needed also 
said, hey, whatever might happen

460
00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:55,770
in the future, Westeros did 
unite back in the day during the

461
00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:58,210
Long Night to repel the Others. 
Now maybe not everyone was on 

462
00:23:58,210 --> 00:23:59,890
board, we don't know. 
But it was enough. 

463
00:23:59,890 --> 00:24:04,890
Whatever happened, humanity, 
enough people fought the Others 

464
00:24:04,890 --> 00:24:07,690
during the Long Night to be 
successful. 

465
00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:12,160
So there was some united. 
Well, there was some unity. 

466
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,080
There was no united government 
that we know of. 

467
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,160
No. 
Whatever united the Mall is, is 

468
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,400
it Bazora High? 
Is it Brandon the Builder, who 

469
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,320
we don't know, Is it some other 
person, some figure that's 

470
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,440
referred to as under one of 
those names? 

471
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,840
It was actually some different 
individual. 

472
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600
We don't know, but it doesn't 
appear to have been some person 

473
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,880
that became king of everyone to 
lead this effort. 

474
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,120
It seems to have been a united 
group. 

475
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,930
Perhaps individuals in the heat 
of the moment pulled people 

476
00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:45,410
together and emerged as leaders 
among these disparate 

477
00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:49,090
organizations and kingdoms. 
But yeah, there wasn't one 

478
00:24:49,090 --> 00:24:52,210
central leader that we know of. 
I mean, maybe Zora High was 

479
00:24:52,210 --> 00:24:55,850
exactly that, but I don't think 
he was like the king of Westeros

480
00:24:55,850 --> 00:24:57,450
temporarily. 
There's no the legends don't 

481
00:24:57,450 --> 00:25:00,410
really speak to that so or or 
she maybe. 

482
00:25:02,650 --> 00:25:07,040
Even Even so it. 
It may be that there was an 

483
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,000
amount of unity, but it's still 
also might be that some magical 

484
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,720
force defeated the others that 
made the unity irrelevant. 

485
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,720
Yeah, OK, that's a good point. 
Yes, that's a very good point if

486
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,640
there was. 
And maybe that magical force 

487
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,840
isn't around anymore, that sword
is lost, the Dragons are dead on

488
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,480
and on. 
So we need the realm of men to 

489
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,000
come together unified. 
Otherwise you won't be able to 

490
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,760
defeat the others like we did 
before because we don't have 

491
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,400
that same magic power, good, 
said Sean. 

492
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,690
Because we can't be assuming all
the same pieces are in place. 

493
00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:37,050
There's a lot of differences. 
You know that George isn't doing

494
00:25:37,050 --> 00:25:39,290
a Onetoone relationship here. 
He's he's giving us 

495
00:25:39,290 --> 00:25:43,090
similarities, not exact history 
repeating itself. 

496
00:25:43,490 --> 00:25:45,850
When history repeats itself, 
it's it's not meant to be an 

497
00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:48,210
exact repetition, although I 
guess sometimes it's pretty darn

498
00:25:48,210 --> 00:25:49,930
close. 
But generally, it's more of like

499
00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:54,170
similar, similar patterns. 
Like fashion is cyclical, but 

500
00:25:54,170 --> 00:25:57,250
even when something comes back 
that has been out for 20 years, 

501
00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:01,130
it's not exactly the same as it 
was in the 2000s as it is in 

502
00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:03,180
2023. 
You know, there's some 

503
00:26:03,180 --> 00:26:05,660
modernization added to it, 
little tweaks here and there. 

504
00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:09,700
Same goes for much larger scale 
things like war against an 

505
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:14,700
implacable, icy enemy. 
So there were people, even 

506
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,140
though they didn't bend the 
knee, there were like, well, 

507
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:19,060
let's negotiate. 
I'm not going to bend the knee, 

508
00:26:19,060 --> 00:26:22,340
but we could be allies, right? 
Of course, Agon would say no to 

509
00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:24,540
this, but the offers came. 
So let's, let's look at that. 

510
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:27,980
Look at that briefly. 
We talked about last week the 

511
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:30,860
marriage offers. 
There were several offers to be 

512
00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:34,080
Agon's third wife, so some of 
those actually haven't happened 

513
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,480
yet. 
But we don't need to review that

514
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,560
the second time. 
This is an example of this, of 

515
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:43,160
the alliances Princess Maria 
offers to help fight our girl 

516
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:44,960
like the arrogant. 
She's like, well, I'll team up 

517
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,160
with you against him, not. 
I won't bend the knee to you, 

518
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,640
but I'm glad to do a pincer 
move. 

519
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,840
He's between us and Queen Regent
Shara. 

520
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,920
In addition to her offer of 
marrying Agon, she also offers 

521
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,280
to team up against King Heron. 
Same thing. 

522
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,280
Sandwich. 
Move the Veil to the north, 

523
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Dragonstone to the South. 
They've got King Heron kind of 

524
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,440
in a pincer there, but of course
he's not like that. 

525
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,640
He's not up to that either. 
He's like, no, I'm not no equals

526
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,160
here. 
Plenty were willing to be 

527
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,870
equals. 
Plenty. 

528
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:17,870
We're willing to see him as 
equals. 

529
00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:20,870
Which to them might be like 
they're making a concession. 

530
00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:22,590
Like he's not a king. 
I'm a king. 

531
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:25,990
Who's he? 
You know, me offering an equal 

532
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:27,910
alliance with him. 
He should be satisfied with that

533
00:27:27,910 --> 00:27:29,830
because I'm already a higher 
rank. 

534
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:32,030
I've got a whole Kingdom. 
My family's been here for 

535
00:27:32,030 --> 00:27:34,710
thousands of years. 
In place of this, he has hardly 

536
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:36,710
any troops. 
Who the heck is he? 

537
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:40,470
So some of them were like, well,
he doesn't have the Dragons and 

538
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:42,630
the Volauri. 
And so, yeah, we'll treat. 

539
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:46,110
We'll, we'll give him this 
equality in negotiations. 

540
00:27:47,420 --> 00:27:50,100
And Heron sucks. 
We have this common enemy. 

541
00:27:50,140 --> 00:27:52,860
That's right. 
So there's all these factors 

542
00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:54,220
that would lead them to think 
okay. 

543
00:27:54,220 --> 00:27:56,420
Well, we've got some negotiating
wiggle room here. 

544
00:27:56,420 --> 00:27:59,260
Let's let's try to. 
We understand him presenting 

545
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:00,860
himself this way. 
That's probably what we would 

546
00:28:00,860 --> 00:28:02,460
do. 
We would probably puff ourselves

547
00:28:02,460 --> 00:28:04,420
up. 
Maybe he's asking for a lot and 

548
00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:07,940
willing to accept less. 
He wasn't, but it's a reasonable

549
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:11,540
way to interpret his message. 
I think Nina says that. 

550
00:28:11,540 --> 00:28:12,500
This and it's. 
Go ahead. 

551
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,040
Just we've said this before 
we'll probably say it again but 

552
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,720
when they offered a team up and 
he's like, no, I can do it 

553
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,400
myself And then he does it 
himself and and then he turns to

554
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,760
the now you're next. 
You know, like I should have 

555
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,000
teamed up. 
I should have bet the knee 

556
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,680
maybe. 
No, they can't say that out 

557
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,280
loud. 
You know, like as you said, they

558
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:31,680
have to project strength and 
pride. 

559
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,320
They can't act weak in front of 
their vassals, but inside 

560
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,400
they're like, damn, I chose 
wrong, didn't I? 

561
00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:42,700
So Nina, yeah, Nina says. 
It's a sign that at this early 

562
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:44,980
stage, the established dynasties
of Westeros were treating the 

563
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:47,820
Targaryens as no more than new 
players in what Steven Atwell 

564
00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:49,660
shout out to Race for. 
The Iron Throne, by the way, 

565
00:28:49,660 --> 00:28:53,020
calls the Great Game that is the
scramble for power and dominion 

566
00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:55,900
in preconquest Westeros. 
Remember that this was not the 

567
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,820
first time the Westeros Canyon 
tried to create a large empire 

568
00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:01,020
on the continent, The Gardner 
Kingdom under droughts, the 

569
00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:04,180
third stretch from Red Lake in 
the north to Sun House in the 

570
00:29:04,180 --> 00:29:06,060
South, and from the Shield 
Islands in the West to the 

571
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:08,060
Narrow Sea and possibly even 
Tarth in the east. 

572
00:29:08,060 --> 00:29:12,040
So that's huge. 
I mean, that's like most of 

573
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,800
southern Westeros mine is Dorn, 
but a lot and a lot of the 

574
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,960
northern part of the continent, 
not the north, but the northern 

575
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,960
part of the area, South of the 
north. 

576
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,120
Worth noting that the southern 
part of the continent is like 

577
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,680
the relevant part of the 
continent, like the fertile 

578
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,200
land, the higher population you 
know it's it's 20 you if you 

579
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,800
divide the land up in the North 
and South. 

580
00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:40,130
If you could choose which one 
you want to be the ruler of, you

581
00:29:40,130 --> 00:29:41,570
choose the South. 
Yeah, definitely. 

582
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:43,890
And another example need to 
give. 

583
00:29:43,890 --> 00:29:48,850
This is Arlen, the Third Durden 
Kingdoms, one of the Storm 

584
00:29:48,850 --> 00:29:52,170
Kings. 
His Kingdom stretched from the 

585
00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:55,130
neck in the north to the Darnish
Marches in the South, and from 

586
00:29:55,130 --> 00:29:58,970
Iron Man's Bay all the way to 
the West of the Narrow Sea in 

587
00:29:58,970 --> 00:30:01,170
the east, all the way West to 
the Narrow Sea in the east 

588
00:30:01,170 --> 00:30:02,810
rather. 
But the central rule of the 

589
00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:04,890
Great Game was that no one could
win permanently. 

590
00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,790
Great Game is capitalized, by 
the way, Just as the Gardner 

591
00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:11,310
Kingdom was eventually hacked 
away by various kings in the 

592
00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:13,230
West Riverlands and Thorne, you 
couldn't defend it all. 

593
00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:15,710
And the other kings took 
advantage of the size of this 

594
00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:19,550
new realm to take advantage of 
the fact that you can't defend 

595
00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:20,870
all that. 
Like you can't be everywhere at 

596
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:22,830
once. 
You can't have border defenses 

597
00:30:22,830 --> 00:30:24,430
everywhere. 
It's too large of a border. 

598
00:30:24,430 --> 00:30:28,990
There's not a lot of natural 
defenses there, which is why the

599
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:32,150
borders often reset to their 
sort of, quote UN quote natural 

600
00:30:32,150 --> 00:30:35,040
ones, because those borders are 
somewhat reinforced by 

601
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,160
geography. 
So once you move beyond the 

602
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,680
geography, you no longer rely on
those natural defenses. 

603
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,440
You have to use manpower. 
And the larger your realm gets, 

604
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,880
the more manpower you need to 
defend that against these other 

605
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,400
kings and Queens who are quite 
capable of carving those chunks 

606
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,120
back off and maybe taking some 
of yours in the process. 

607
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,360
So there's several examples here
of large kingdoms that just 

608
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,400
didn't hold, and that might be 
what some of these the kings saw

609
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,720
they'd be like, OK, well, maybe 
Agon will be able to carve off a

610
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,600
lot of this chunk, but he'll 
never be able to hold it all, 

611
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,480
especially not the whole 
Kingdom. 

612
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,200
No one's ever done that. 
No one's even come close to 

613
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,640
that. 
Even these large kingdoms that 

614
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,720
we've described at most were 
60%. 

615
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,560
I don't even think that I'm not 
sure anyone ever ruled more than

616
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,320
half the Kingdom at once. 
It's they'd have to do a little 

617
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,000
math and detail gathering on 
that one. 

618
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,440
But let's just call it roughly 
that. 

619
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,520
And so someone, this guy's going
for all of it. 

620
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,740
Yeah, that that's it just goes 
to show what a boss move it is 

621
00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:36,420
to say I don't have equals, nor 
do I require help, and I'm doing

622
00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:38,820
something no one's even come 
close to doing before, or even 

623
00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:41,340
tried really. 
So we can understand why there 

624
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:44,060
was a lot of just there's no 
way. 

625
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:47,180
I don't care how big that dragon
is, it's just not happening. 

626
00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:52,580
It just seems so ridiculous. 
8000 years like this and you 

627
00:31:52,580 --> 00:31:54,820
could say that, well, the 
kingdoms have been getting 

628
00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:57,490
smaller and smaller. 
I mean, the number of kingdoms 

629
00:31:57,490 --> 00:32:01,530
has gotten smaller and smaller. 
Maybe eventually, historically 

630
00:32:01,530 --> 00:32:03,810
speaking, it just makes sense 
that would all come into one. 

631
00:32:03,970 --> 00:32:08,170
But this is pretty quick. 
It maybe would have taken more 

632
00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:12,290
of a gradual scenario than just 
all at once. 

633
00:32:12,290 --> 00:32:16,770
All seven of them united. 
But hey, this was a different 

634
00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:20,570
kind of leader. 
There's a lot of establishment 

635
00:32:20,570 --> 00:32:23,250
of symbols here. 
There's this. 

636
00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:31,000
The crown that he's eventually 
going to have when he lands, so 

637
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:37,280
that's a pretty big deal. 
And the sword, black fire is a 

638
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,320
bit of a symbol, much more of a 
symbol later, but for now it's 

639
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,720
more about the Dragons. 
And I guess the biggest one is 

640
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,120
they unfurled that big dragon 
banner. 

641
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,800
There's a quote for that later I
think we have, but the point is 

642
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,520
that they weren't doing 
Westerosi cultural things. 

643
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,400
Like apparently Agon was the 
first. 

644
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,480
Agon the First was the first of 
his family to have A and all 

645
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,760
oriented banner with words and 
of House motto and all that. 

646
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,520
Like the Targaryens apparently 
just didn't do that for the 1st 

647
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,320
90 years on Dragon Center, 
however long it was. 

648
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,600
So this was part of adopting the
culture that they were planning 

649
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,200
to rule. 
Not only does he adopt the 

650
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:25,150
seven, but he adopts this 
particular cultural tradition, 

651
00:33:25,150 --> 00:33:27,870
probably several others as well.
Maybe you know things like 

652
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:31,750
knighthood and other things. 
I'm not sure how much they had 

653
00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:34,590
embraced that. 
Certainly a lot of their 

654
00:33:34,590 --> 00:33:39,470
followers would have been 
knighted, but Aegon himself I 

655
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:42,590
don't think was ever knighted, 
and a lot of his descendants 

656
00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:45,750
would be, but I doubt any of his
forebears were. 

657
00:33:46,110 --> 00:33:50,160
So that's another thing that 
that as part of the setup, he 

658
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:51,880
did that now. 
So when we talk about him 

659
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,360
planning the conquest, these are
the kind of plans he made. 

660
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,000
It's not about his troops as 
much or making sure they have 

661
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,520
the right weaponry. 
I mean, I'm sure there was some 

662
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,880
of that going on, but his troops
were such a small aspect to 

663
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,280
this. 
He had so few of them. 

664
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,880
At this point, it's like Stannis
again, isn't that why Fitz with 

665
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,440
Stannis so well, Stannis, when 
he's going north to the wall, 

666
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,159
he's only got like 1500 men 
left. 

667
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:15,560
It's probably about how many 
Aegon has here. 

668
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,040
He's not going north. 
He's going to the mouth of the 

669
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,780
Blackwater. 
So there's a lot of these 

670
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:24,100
cultural preparation. 
Adopting the Seven, adopting 

671
00:34:24,100 --> 00:34:27,739
knighthood, adopting a banner, 
adopting house words. 

672
00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:28,820
I guess that was probably an 
easy one. 

673
00:34:28,820 --> 00:34:30,100
What are we going to do for our 
house words? 

674
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:31,300
Fire and blood, man. 
That's easy. 

675
00:34:31,300 --> 00:34:33,340
Like, Oh yeah, that is easy. 
All right. 

676
00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:34,380
Fire and blood. 
Cool. 

677
00:34:35,179 --> 00:34:37,500
It does. 
It's kind of fit naturally, I 

678
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:40,260
think. 
And it may have been enhanced by

679
00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:43,179
dreams or not necessarily even 
dreams about the others. 

680
00:34:43,179 --> 00:34:48,060
Just a lot of Targaryen's have 
had dreams described that way. 

681
00:34:48,060 --> 00:34:50,980
I think it's fiery, bloody 
dreams. 

682
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:53,500
Seems common. 
Maybe more fire than blood, but 

683
00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:58,820
still a lot of both. 
Coming out of the doom too would

684
00:34:58,940 --> 00:35:02,020
maybe yeah it goes of that in 
their in their history. 

685
00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:06,260
So I want to emphasize a bit 
just how proud of themselves all

686
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:09,700
these kingdoms were, these kings
and kingdoms and their families 

687
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:12,300
that support that. 
They're very full of themselves 

688
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:16,680
and they'd outlasted so many 
others, so many of these other 

689
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,520
one, you could look back at how 
it had become seven kingdoms and

690
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,880
say it used to be 100 kingdoms, 
used to be 1000 kingdoms, and 

691
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:29,440
our family emerged at the top of
that heap, after all this fog of

692
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,520
history and violence, were 
standing tall in a land where so

693
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,880
many have died trying. 
So you know, that's another from

694
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,240
what you were saying before, 
Sean. 

695
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:39,320
Of course. 
They're just not going to give 

696
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,880
up on that. 
It's one thing to be proud of 

697
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,840
your ancestry. 
It's another to fool yourself 

698
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,440
into thinking that you're 
responsible as in responsible 

699
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,760
for creating any of that. 
You inherited it, and maybe 

700
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,160
you've managed it well, but you 
didn't. 

701
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,280
You didn't build it right. 
To be fair, each successive 

702
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,120
generation has a larger history 
to protect. 

703
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,520
Their legacy gets larger and and
more maybe more proud of and 

704
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,800
their society puts a lot of 
pressure on them to protect that

705
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,890
and preserve that. 
So yeah, it's a very deep held 

706
00:36:10,890 --> 00:36:14,130
cultural belief, one that they 
would not let go of too easily. 

707
00:36:15,410 --> 00:36:18,170
You could say as much pride as 
there is, there's also a sense 

708
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:21,010
of responsibility, essentially 
with a good leader, you know? 

709
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:23,090
Yes, definitely. 
And that's not a bad thing, you 

710
00:36:23,090 --> 00:36:24,490
know? 
Well, no, this guy wants to come

711
00:36:24,490 --> 00:36:26,010
conquer us. 
No, of course I'm. 

712
00:36:26,010 --> 00:36:27,570
It's my job to defend us from 
that. 

713
00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:30,050
I'm going to do it. 
So yeah, it's not like, a bad 

714
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:31,290
thing that they didn't bend the 
knee. 

715
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,960
If they knew about the 
supernatural future, maybe. 

716
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,240
But there's no way they could 
know that. 

717
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:37,640
There's no way to even convince 
them of that. 

718
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,880
Like, why would they believe 
this crazy guy talking about, 

719
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,400
like, in a couple, 100 years or 
so, there's gonna be it's like, 

720
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
so we all need to prepare now, 
You know, like, so your 

721
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,400
grandchildren's, 
grandchildren's, 

722
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,680
grandchildren's, grandchildren's
grandchildren will be prepared 

723
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:49,920
for it. 
Like, what the hell is he 

724
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,800
talking about? 
Like in modern times. 

725
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,160
How much do we do to prepare for
200 years from now? 

726
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,800
Not a lot, right? 
Yeah, like we have way more 

727
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,640
knowledge and access to 
knowledge. 

728
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,320
We have way better 
infrastructure, ostensibly 

729
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,680
better leaders. 
I don't know. 

730
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,000
And yet still we are not 
thinking past. 

731
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,320
Nope. 
Maybe 2 generations. 

732
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:09,280
You know we are not. 
You're right. 

733
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,440
And some people do, but they 
don't. 

734
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,240
Really, they don't. 
They can't convince the rest of 

735
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:17,240
us to to go along with it. 
And there is a greater emphasis 

736
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,840
on that society these days, but 
not maybe, maybe not much 

737
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,440
greater progress in terms of 
actually doing that. 

738
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:25,540
Because it's not something like 
without technology. 

739
00:37:25,540 --> 00:37:29,580
You wouldn't have thought of 
thinking ahead that far in 

740
00:37:29,580 --> 00:37:31,260
ancient times. 
Like, why would you what? 

741
00:37:31,820 --> 00:37:33,660
What reason would you have? 
You're not thinking about like, 

742
00:37:33,660 --> 00:37:36,180
oh, look at the look at what 
deforestation will cause. 

743
00:37:36,620 --> 00:37:38,260
I don't know if the ancients 
would have realized that. 

744
00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:40,340
Maybe they would have, and maybe
they. 

745
00:37:40,380 --> 00:37:41,940
Weren't able to deforest this 
fast. 

746
00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:44,340
Yeah, they didn't know the 
consequences. 

747
00:37:44,340 --> 00:37:46,980
And they're like, we shouldn't 
have done that, but they may not

748
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:49,620
have even known what. 
And when you have less 

749
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:52,560
resources. 
It makes more sense to worry 

750
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,600
about your children, yourself 
first, your children next. 

751
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,200
You know, when you start to get 
more and more resources, then 

752
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200
you worry about your neighbors 
and your grandchildren, you 

753
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,920
know? 
And so people of Westeros 

754
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,760
compared to, you know, people, 
most people in the modern world 

755
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,600
have way more wealth and 
stability. 

756
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,720
Food. 
You're not just worried about 

757
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:10,320
food. 
Yeah. 

758
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,040
Back then, most of the hours of 
most of the people is spent 

759
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,520
trying to not start. 
That's the main endeavor of 

760
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,280
everyone's life is to just 
create food. 

761
00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:22,630
What do you It makes sense that 
they're not all worried about 

762
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:24,590
something 200 years. 
Yeah, they're they're like that.

763
00:38:24,590 --> 00:38:27,390
The present is demanding enough,
like who's going to worry about 

764
00:38:27,390 --> 00:38:29,110
the future? 
About the harvest in a couple 

765
00:38:29,110 --> 00:38:31,110
months, that's that's what 
dominates their lives. 

766
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:34,030
There's really, you can't look 
ahead when the present is that 

767
00:38:34,030 --> 00:38:34,870
demanding. 
I think. 

768
00:38:35,630 --> 00:38:39,470
So what do you think, Sean? 
You think Ergon expected any of 

769
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:41,590
them to bend the knee or do you 
think his their reaction was 

770
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:43,230
pretty much what he expects? 
Like, yeah, none of them are 

771
00:38:43,230 --> 00:38:46,270
actually going to bend the knee.
But I need to make claim and and

772
00:38:46,270 --> 00:38:49,390
start off this way and and set 
that target and prove that I can

773
00:38:49,390 --> 00:38:52,010
hit it. 
Yeah, I think that he expected 

774
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:55,370
them to bend the knee after a 
couple battles, after he made it

775
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:57,170
clear, like, you can't beat me, 
sorry. 

776
00:38:57,930 --> 00:39:00,250
And not only can you not beat 
me, but I'm not that bad. 

777
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:01,450
Also, I think that was part of 
it too. 

778
00:39:01,450 --> 00:39:04,290
He wasn't. 
He wasn't just ruthlessly, 

779
00:39:04,290 --> 00:39:06,010
unnecessarily slaughtering 
people. 

780
00:39:06,170 --> 00:39:08,050
Right, Right. 
He wasn't just burning down 

781
00:39:08,050 --> 00:39:10,410
random villages. 
He was only doing it in battle. 

782
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:12,130
And he started with the worst 
leader. 

783
00:39:12,330 --> 00:39:17,010
So I think that I think he I I'm
confident that he did expect. 

784
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:20,590
At least some of them to bend 
the knee after the first couple 

785
00:39:20,590 --> 00:39:23,350
were conquered. 
I think he might have expected 

786
00:39:23,350 --> 00:39:26,470
or hoped for and it might have 
gotten, we don't necessarily 

787
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:29,270
know it, some negotiation. 
He might have got a few people 

788
00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:33,230
say like look, you know I can't 
just randomly bend the knee, but

789
00:39:33,230 --> 00:39:37,190
if you show up with 5000 troops 
and two Dragons, I'll I'll make 

790
00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:40,150
a show of force and my people 
will see I'm being reasonable by

791
00:39:40,150 --> 00:39:42,030
bending the knee to you. 
You know, I think that. 

792
00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:46,170
He might have expected or hoped 
or even gotten that it's a 

793
00:39:46,170 --> 00:39:47,690
chance for them to show their 
bravery. 

794
00:39:47,690 --> 00:39:50,690
In a sense, it's almost like, 
well, if I can survive this 

795
00:39:50,690 --> 00:39:55,170
battle, I'll look really brave. 
I'll look like I did my duty. 

796
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:58,450
But ultimately, I I plan to 
surrender. 

797
00:39:58,450 --> 00:40:00,810
We just have to. 
We can't surrender before 

798
00:40:00,810 --> 00:40:02,610
there's in any fighting. 
And then I'm then I'm going to 

799
00:40:02,610 --> 00:40:04,290
look like a coward. 
And that, you know, and that's 

800
00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:06,530
just one of the worst things you
can look like in Westeros. 

801
00:40:06,970 --> 00:40:09,730
When you're in charge. 
And that's even better for Agon 

802
00:40:09,730 --> 00:40:10,450
too. 
If. 

803
00:40:11,090 --> 00:40:13,090
He doesn't want cowards 
following him, right? 

804
00:40:13,290 --> 00:40:16,970
If the person that bends the 
knee to him, he then puts them 

805
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:19,330
in charge of the land that 
they're already in charge of. 

806
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:20,770
They should do a decent job, 
right? 

807
00:40:21,210 --> 00:40:24,250
But if that person now looks 
like a coward to his people, it 

808
00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:26,010
won't be stable. 
That would be a problem for 

809
00:40:26,010 --> 00:40:28,170
Aegon. 
So he wants them to be able to 

810
00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:31,650
still look good at the end of 
the battle or the knee bending 

811
00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:33,090
or whatever happened. 
Yeah, he wants them to still 

812
00:40:33,090 --> 00:40:36,130
look good because they'll look 
good under him rather than, 

813
00:40:36,130 --> 00:40:38,450
yeah, like it's his. 
He's only as good as his 

814
00:40:38,450 --> 00:40:40,170
subordinate. 
So that's that's a great point 

815
00:40:40,170 --> 00:40:43,050
as well Sean because. 
Yeah, he doesn't want to be 

816
00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:46,290
surrounded by weaklings and Matt
the strong people come along 

817
00:40:46,290 --> 00:40:49,450
later and go. 
He only conquered the realm 

818
00:40:49,450 --> 00:40:52,050
because everyone bent the knee. 
Like no one ever gave him a 

819
00:40:52,050 --> 00:40:53,170
fight. 
Let's give him a fight and see 

820
00:40:53,170 --> 00:40:55,130
what happens. 
But a gun was was determined to 

821
00:40:55,210 --> 00:40:57,290
make sure that if there were 
fights, he won them handily. 

822
00:40:57,290 --> 00:41:00,850
So that people would be like 
even in a scenario like that 

823
00:41:00,850 --> 00:41:05,010
where you know someone you know 
thinks that their ruler is a 

824
00:41:05,010 --> 00:41:07,890
coward and we could have beat 
the Targaryens and so there is a

825
00:41:07,930 --> 00:41:11,770
civil war and Aegon can go and 
burn them all down with the 

826
00:41:11,770 --> 00:41:12,930
Dragons. 
But then what? 

827
00:41:12,930 --> 00:41:15,290
That's not, it's just so much 
worse, right? 

828
00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:17,810
It's so much worse to have that 
the destruction that civil war 

829
00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:22,330
would cause the the destruction 
that he will have to commit to 

830
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:24,930
stop the civil war. 
And then what happens now? 

831
00:41:24,930 --> 00:41:27,730
Who's in charge like the the 
people who were in charge before

832
00:41:27,730 --> 00:41:29,370
and you could trust to run it, 
They're all dead. 

833
00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:32,490
The the, the next strongest 
bravest people who are trying to

834
00:41:32,490 --> 00:41:34,050
fight them, well, they're all 
dead. 

835
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:36,930
So now you got to pick someone 
and you're it'll be just 

836
00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:39,470
constant issue, you know? 
Yeah, Good said. 

837
00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:42,270
Good said. 
So as far as the Dragons too, I 

838
00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:44,750
know we touched on this briefly 
last time, but Nina added a 

839
00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:46,950
point here. 
Dragons aren't an automatic win 

840
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:50,070
button, and especially from the 
perspective of these kings and 

841
00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:53,310
Queens who haven't seen them in 
action, they don't know exactly 

842
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:56,790
what they're capable of, so you 
have to put that to the test. 

843
00:41:56,990 --> 00:42:00,830
For all they know, the Dragons 
won't go where you want them to.

844
00:42:00,830 --> 00:42:03,510
For all you know, the Dragons 
will turn on their own troops 

845
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:06,110
sometimes. 
Now that's not what will happen.

846
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,120
But they don't know that, like 
can they really control them 

847
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,040
that well, There's things they 
can say to themselves to maybe 

848
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,560
pump themselves up. 
And this goes for the Lords and 

849
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,720
the common men. 
Once the Dragons are in action 

850
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:18,600
and once it's been seen what 
they can do, especially 

851
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,160
Balerian, that's when people 
start to go, OK, we've you've 

852
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,760
proven what they can do. 
It's more than we thought. 

853
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,880
Now we'll definitely consider 
bending the knee like Torin. 

854
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,000
That's that's pretty much the 
exactly the case of Torin. 

855
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,480
Dragons are useful and powerful 
tools, no question. 

856
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,560
But they don't replace 
strategies. 

857
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,240
So if I have to use them 
properly. 

858
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,120
And as we said, there's a little
something to be said about 

859
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:45,120
Valerian's enormous size that 
may have given Agon a weapon 

860
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,320
that no one else before him 
really had. 

861
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:53,480
It's entirely possible Valerian 
was the largest dragon in the 

862
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,000
history of House Targaryen, 
maybe one of the largest scene, 

863
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,640
and would have been one of the 
largest scene in Valeria. 

864
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,000
And here's the thing. 
Here's the point from our 

865
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,040
episode of Valerian that I want 
to remind you all of. 

866
00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:06,810
I think I've maybe said it a 
couple times before, but it 

867
00:43:06,810 --> 00:43:10,610
bears repeating here. 
Veigar, Moraxis, and Valerian 

868
00:43:10,610 --> 00:43:15,410
are named after Valerian gods. 
Veigar and Moraxis were named 

869
00:43:15,410 --> 00:43:17,890
after Valerian gods after all 
the Dragons were wiped out. 

870
00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:23,610
So that's like, it's not as 
you're not naming one, you're 

871
00:43:23,610 --> 00:43:27,490
not elevating one dragon to the 
status of a God name when 

872
00:43:27,490 --> 00:43:32,300
there's hundreds of them. 
Right, but Valerian was Valerian

873
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:36,100
was born in Valerian when there 
were hundreds of Dragons and got

874
00:43:36,100 --> 00:43:39,020
the name of a Valerian God. 
How many Dragons got the name of

875
00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:40,580
Valerian gods when there were 
hundreds of them? 

876
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:42,260
How many Valerian gods are 
there? 

877
00:43:42,460 --> 00:43:44,980
Were there, like, dozens of 
Dragons named Valerian? 

878
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:47,620
Were there lots of other vagars 
and Moraxis? 

879
00:43:49,980 --> 00:43:51,220
Fido. 
Fidax. 

880
00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:55,460
It's FYDO, yeah. 
The X is silent. 

881
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:01,100
So that says something like, I 
don't know how they knew. 

882
00:44:01,100 --> 00:44:04,740
I mean, okay, let me use our 
black cat Jakin as an example 

883
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:07,980
because when we saw this kitten,
it was clear this kitten would 

884
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,180
be huge as a cat. 
He already had huge paws, he 

885
00:44:11,180 --> 00:44:14,420
already had huge ears, huge 
whiskers, like he was going to 

886
00:44:14,420 --> 00:44:15,860
grow into that. 
So I wonder if it was a little 

887
00:44:15,860 --> 00:44:18,420
bit like, this is Balerian, this
dragon hash, and like that is a 

888
00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:20,580
huge hatch. 
That's a fat baby. 

889
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:23,700
You know the equivalent of that 
for a human and indeed. 

890
00:44:24,450 --> 00:44:27,890
Turned into an enormously 
unusually enormously large 

891
00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:31,450
dragon and that might have been 
I just think that's a big part 

892
00:44:31,450 --> 00:44:34,010
of the calculus here that may be
kind of underrated just the the 

893
00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:36,810
pure size of Valerian change the
calculus of everything. 

894
00:44:38,770 --> 00:44:42,410
And another thing mean adds is 
the Dragons have been sitting 

895
00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:44,410
there for a century. 
You know if they could have 

896
00:44:44,410 --> 00:44:47,610
conquered and we've we've come 
up with lots of reasons why they

897
00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:49,890
wouldn't conquer and there's 
plenty right. 

898
00:44:50,650 --> 00:44:53,660
But. 
It's not the same logic that 

899
00:44:53,660 --> 00:44:56,460
these kings and Queens might use
when considering that same 

900
00:44:56,460 --> 00:44:57,620
question. 
And we'd be like, well, if they 

901
00:44:57,620 --> 00:44:59,820
could have done it before, why 
didn't they? 

902
00:45:00,220 --> 00:45:02,820
It's just a reason for them to 
pump up their pride, especially 

903
00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:03,820
because they're not going to 
back. 

904
00:45:03,820 --> 00:45:05,060
They know they're not going to 
back down. 

905
00:45:05,060 --> 00:45:06,460
They know they have to put this 
to the test. 

906
00:45:06,460 --> 00:45:09,340
So they may as well pump 
themselves up with some 

907
00:45:09,340 --> 00:45:12,940
reasoning to be like, well, why 
might this go well? 

908
00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:16,260
Well, yeah, maybe they don't. 
Maybe those they're they're 

909
00:45:16,260 --> 00:45:18,220
bluffing a bit. 
So they would maybe be able to 

910
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:19,860
talk themselves into some 
things, knowing that they're 

911
00:45:19,860 --> 00:45:22,830
going to be doing it anyway. 
It's one thing to convince 

912
00:45:22,830 --> 00:45:26,910
yourself of something that's not
true before you've decided what 

913
00:45:26,910 --> 00:45:30,190
to do, but if you're already 
convinced you're going into this

914
00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:33,670
fight, there's nothing wrong 
with some false bravado. 

915
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:36,430
You know, it's like that Slim 
Charles line from The Wire that 

916
00:45:36,430 --> 00:45:38,910
I've quoted before. 
If we're going to fight, fight 

917
00:45:38,910 --> 00:45:42,190
on that lie. 
Don't break their morale by 

918
00:45:42,190 --> 00:45:44,150
telling them that the reason 
they're fighting is a lie. 

919
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:47,150
Go ahead and let that inspire 
them if you're going to fight 

920
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:48,700
anyway. 
It doesn't matter. 

921
00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:51,660
Inspiration better than not 
fight, but if you're going to at

922
00:45:51,780 --> 00:45:52,700
least keep morale. 
Up. 

923
00:45:52,740 --> 00:45:53,460
Yes. 
Yes. 

924
00:45:53,460 --> 00:45:56,300
Don't undermine your troops on 
with with truth. 

925
00:45:58,740 --> 00:45:59,940
There's a time for everything, 
right. 

926
00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:01,940
I mean that's that's a true. 
That's the real thing. 

927
00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:02,980
Right. 
We've used that example before 

928
00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:06,420
you let's go around telling kids
that certain beings don't. 

929
00:46:06,420 --> 00:46:11,500
I won't name it by certain 
holiday individuals don't 

930
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:12,580
actually exist. 
Right. 

931
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:16,460
That's not cool. 
So yeah, it's just an extension 

932
00:46:16,460 --> 00:46:23,570
of that in a in a way. 
Ashaya thinks it's very cool. 

933
00:46:23,970 --> 00:46:32,730
Meg or the cool it's it's a good
thing you're muted for that 

934
00:46:32,730 --> 00:46:38,010
statement. 
Ashaya said she likes ruining 

935
00:46:38,010 --> 00:46:39,370
children's days. 
Really. 

936
00:46:39,970 --> 00:46:44,320
For shame. 
So despite how dominant Balerian

937
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,920
had proved to be, not to mention
Vegar and Moraxis, it wouldn't 

938
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,320
make a lot of sense to attack 
all the seven kingdoms at the 

939
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,120
same time. 
So he had the choice of who to 

940
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,600
target 1st and it seems like he 
went with prison rules of sorts,

941
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,800
what I'm referring to. 
Is relating to the idea of 

942
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,000
demonstrating the power of the 
Dragons. 

943
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,400
You go fight the strongest 
person and then no one messes 

944
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,920
with you because you've already 
if you're not the weakest person

945
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,520
in the room, you won't be the 
first one picked on. 

946
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,080
It's like it's like the old 
rules of poker. 

947
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,920
If you can't spot the sucker at 
the table, it's probably you. 

948
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,440
So by that same logic, it makes 
more sense to target the biggest

949
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,960
bully, assuming you have the 
ability to actually pull it off.

950
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,080
Because if you fail then, well, 
that kind of backfired didn't 

951
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,680
it? 
So here we go quote. 

952
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:33,240
North of the Blackwater, the 
river lands were ruled by the 

953
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:36,680
Bloody Hand of Heron, the Black 
of House Whore, King of the 

954
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,160
Isles, and the Rivers Heron's 
Ironborn, Gransire Harwin. 

955
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,680
Hard hand had taken the Trident 
from Argalac's grandsire Eric, 

956
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,360
whose own forebears had thrown 
down the last of the River 

957
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,960
King's centuries earlier. 
Heron's father had extended his 

958
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,320
domains E to Dunscandale and 
Rosby. 

959
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,360
Heron himself had devoted most 
of his long reign, close on 40 

960
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,600
years to building a gigantic 
castle beside the God's Eye. 

961
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,840
But with Heron Hall at last 
nearing completion, the Ironborn

962
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,400
would soon be free to seek fresh
conquests. 

963
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,600
No king in Westeros was more 
feared than Black Heron, whose 

964
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,600
cruelty had become legendary all
through the Seven Kingdoms. 

965
00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:26,950
Shay is going to pull up a map 
here to remind us just how large

966
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:28,870
Heron's Kingdom was. 
He basically controlled the 

967
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:34,590
entire center of Westeros all 
the way from roughly where not 

968
00:48:34,590 --> 00:48:38,670
exactly where King's Landing is,
but Maiden Pool, all the River 

969
00:48:38,670 --> 00:48:41,110
Lands and Maiden. 
Where the River lands ends is a 

970
00:48:41,110 --> 00:48:44,150
little spotty, but it's roughly 
a little past Maiden Pool to the

971
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:48,750
east, but everything northwest 
of that all the way to the Iron 

972
00:48:48,750 --> 00:48:51,910
Islands. 
So what you're looking at is. 

973
00:48:52,290 --> 00:48:57,210
How does anyone trade with the 
veil or the north when the river

974
00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:59,730
lands is controlled by this guy?
Well, he would probably tax that

975
00:48:59,730 --> 00:49:01,650
stuff pretty heavily. 
So it's another example of his 

976
00:49:01,650 --> 00:49:05,410
bullying, like economic bullying
or dominance that may go 

977
00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:09,210
unnoticed by a lot of readers or
analysts. 

978
00:49:10,090 --> 00:49:14,290
So this would be not just as 
breaking Heron would not just 

979
00:49:14,370 --> 00:49:16,970
end his threat, which is 
substantial, but it would open 

980
00:49:16,970 --> 00:49:21,430
up. 
A lot of trade and commercial 

981
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:25,910
ventures for folks who would 
have been stymied and the River 

982
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:28,430
Lands is known for trade. 
I mean that the rivers 

983
00:49:28,430 --> 00:49:32,230
themselves create a lot of 
opportunity for boats going back

984
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:36,630
and forth rapidly and to a lot 
of different places, somewhat 

985
00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:42,870
remote to somewhat central. 
So it's a very good place for 

986
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:47,070
that, but it's been dominated by
a tyrant who rather than. 

987
00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:51,930
Build on that natural 
prosperity. 

988
00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:57,050
He exploits it to build this 
giant awful castle that involves

989
00:49:57,650 --> 00:50:01,890
basically enslaving people, 
working them to death, stripping

990
00:50:01,890 --> 00:50:04,450
lots of regions of their natural
resources. 

991
00:50:04,450 --> 00:50:07,090
Kind of the maybe the equivalent
of like strip mining and 

992
00:50:07,090 --> 00:50:10,050
deforesting, including cutting 
down wherewoods. 

993
00:50:10,050 --> 00:50:13,530
Which, you know, wouldn't bother
the followers of the seven all 

994
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:16,410
that much, but might make a few 
people. 

995
00:50:17,180 --> 00:50:21,340
Nervous about what the old gods 
might do, but some superstitions

996
00:50:21,420 --> 00:50:23,060
linger. 
A lot of people still respect 

997
00:50:23,060 --> 00:50:26,660
the old gods, even if their main
prayer is to the new gods. 

998
00:50:27,020 --> 00:50:29,780
That's why they say that the new
God, old God to the new, that 

999
00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:32,340
people still say that phrase 
because it still matters. 

1000
00:50:33,580 --> 00:50:36,060
Even if you're Christian or 
Jewish or whatever. 

1001
00:50:36,060 --> 00:50:40,620
You don't want all the old Greek
pantheons destroyed because 

1002
00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:42,740
they're not your religion. 
You know, if if someone just 

1003
00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:46,820
starts wreaking havoc on on 
ancient sacred ground, 

1004
00:50:47,090 --> 00:50:49,490
everyone's a little aghast. 
Even if you're not, yeah, it's 

1005
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:52,970
specifically connected to it. 
You know that means a. 

1006
00:50:52,970 --> 00:50:54,450
Lot of ideas, Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1007
00:50:54,450 --> 00:50:57,410
Or the first day, Yeah. 
First day came for their 

1008
00:50:57,490 --> 00:50:59,370
religious landmarks. 
Next they'll come for ours. 

1009
00:50:59,410 --> 00:51:02,010
Yeah. 
It's not hard to connect that 

1010
00:51:02,010 --> 00:51:02,850
dot. 
I totally agree. 

1011
00:51:03,650 --> 00:51:07,130
So. 
Given the size of Heron's Castle

1012
00:51:07,130 --> 00:51:09,970
and of his realm and how 
unpopular he was the religious 

1013
00:51:09,970 --> 00:51:12,530
aspects as well. 
I mean, he's foisting the Iron 

1014
00:51:12,570 --> 00:51:14,930
the Drowned God religion here. 
He's not a worshipper of the 

1015
00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:17,410
Seven, he's not like a very 
religious guy, but certainly 

1016
00:51:17,410 --> 00:51:19,810
wasn't following the Seven, so 
that's a problem. 

1017
00:51:20,170 --> 00:51:23,730
Yet another reason why Aegon 
adopting the Seven was a really 

1018
00:51:23,730 --> 00:51:25,810
smooth political move. 
Not only is it the dominant 

1019
00:51:25,810 --> 00:51:29,030
majority religion. 
But it was very opposed to what 

1020
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:31,390
Heron was doing. 
So just really fits in line with

1021
00:51:31,390 --> 00:51:34,150
this plan of attacking Heron 
first, to adopt the religion of 

1022
00:51:34,150 --> 00:51:35,870
people that really hate this 
guy. 

1023
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:38,990
Much easier to recruit them, 
much easier to win them over. 

1024
00:51:39,710 --> 00:51:42,470
Yeah, taking down a tyrant, 
people will sign up for that, 

1025
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:43,710
including people within his own 
realm. 

1026
00:51:43,710 --> 00:51:47,750
And I bet he predicted that. 
So this issue of timing is very 

1027
00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:50,230
interesting. 
Legend tells us that Aegon's 

1028
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:53,190
landing occurred on the same day
that Heron Hall was declared 

1029
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:56,260
complete. 
I don't know if it was the exact

1030
00:51:56,260 --> 00:51:58,060
same day. 
That seems like a little bit of,

1031
00:51:58,940 --> 00:52:01,860
you know, just storytelling 
adding to the myth. 

1032
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:04,340
Yeah, a little myth making 
there, but it's cool. 

1033
00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:07,180
The point being though, it was 
pretty close together, which 

1034
00:52:07,180 --> 00:52:09,260
that's enough to make the point.
It doesn't have to be the exact 

1035
00:52:09,260 --> 00:52:11,910
same day for it to be, by the 
way. 

1036
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:14,590
I can believe it's the same day 
because once again, I think that

1037
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:17,830
I think Aegon had a lot of 
logistical planning behind us. 

1038
00:52:17,830 --> 00:52:21,550
I think he understood the. 
He may have spy on them to find 

1039
00:52:21,550 --> 00:52:22,750
out what day was going to be 
over. 

1040
00:52:23,110 --> 00:52:24,430
Claire Dunn. 
Just like, yeah, it would have 

1041
00:52:24,430 --> 00:52:25,550
been. 
It would have been a big event. 

1042
00:52:25,550 --> 00:52:27,550
He's like celebrating the day 
the castle was completed. 

1043
00:52:27,550 --> 00:52:33,150
And Aegon could have known about
that, stealing his Thunder. 

1044
00:52:33,150 --> 00:52:34,390
I like that. 
That's a great call. 

1045
00:52:34,590 --> 00:52:37,990
Yeah. 
Again, like I think that he 

1046
00:52:37,990 --> 00:52:42,390
understands the symbolic nature 
of of what what he's doing and 

1047
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:44,950
his actions going after here 
first in the first place. 

1048
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:48,590
I think that I, I and I don't 
think it would have been like 

1049
00:52:48,590 --> 00:52:50,910
some secret that no one could 
possibly know. 

1050
00:52:50,910 --> 00:52:54,110
I'd the more I think about it, 
the more I think it probably 

1051
00:52:54,110 --> 00:52:55,310
was. 
It probably was calculated 

1052
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:57,110
specifically for that day. 
I like it, yeah. 

1053
00:52:57,110 --> 00:52:58,990
I was a little skeptical, but 
you guys have made some really 

1054
00:52:58,990 --> 00:53:00,350
good points there. 
I think I might have to change 

1055
00:53:00,350 --> 00:53:02,630
my mind because of the symbolic 
relevance of it. 

1056
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:04,870
If he thought of that, it seems 
like he probably would have. 

1057
00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:07,300
Then he would plan for that and 
it makes a lot of sense. 

1058
00:53:07,300 --> 00:53:11,860
It's like putting starting a 
holiday on an existing holiday 

1059
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:14,300
to kind of erase it, which has 
happened before. 

1060
00:53:15,620 --> 00:53:18,460
Like when you think about it, he
probably could have done 

1061
00:53:18,460 --> 00:53:22,140
whatever he's doing 2 weeks, two
months sooner. 

1062
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:25,060
Yeah, two months later. 
But he chose this day. 

1063
00:53:25,060 --> 00:53:27,020
I think he chose this day very 
specifically. 

1064
00:53:27,060 --> 00:53:28,900
Yeah, I think you guys are right
about that. 

1065
00:53:30,290 --> 00:53:31,850
And if he. 
Yeah, because if he started a 

1066
00:53:31,850 --> 00:53:34,010
few days early, like, it 
wouldn't matter. 

1067
00:53:34,010 --> 00:53:36,410
It's like Heron Hall. 
It's like, oh, no, Baron Hall is

1068
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:38,850
complete now. 
Now Balerian can't melt it, you 

1069
00:53:38,970 --> 00:53:41,090
know, It's like, oh, you missed 
your chance. 

1070
00:53:42,090 --> 00:53:44,810
It's like Star Wars. 
That thing's operational, you 

1071
00:53:44,810 --> 00:53:47,450
know, like it was still very 
effective as a castle before 

1072
00:53:47,450 --> 00:53:50,090
that final brick was put in. 
It's like, oh, now it all works,

1073
00:53:50,090 --> 00:53:52,170
you know? 
Now it's turn the whole castle 

1074
00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:56,210
on now, like the switch works. 
You know Heron Hall isn't firing

1075
00:53:56,210 --> 00:53:58,960
the big blast of super hot. 
Plasma though. 

1076
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,880
That's Valerian. 
The castle isn't the Death Star.

1077
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,560
Valerian's the Death Star, 
right. 

1078
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,920
So these are things that, like 
you said, Agon and his brain 

1079
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,320
trust would have figured out and
and realized the value of of 

1080
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:14,040
stealing his Thunder and Heron. 
I wonder what he knew. 

1081
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,520
Like, we can see that Agon was 
probably keeping track of what 

1082
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,440
was going on. 
Was it? 

1083
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,720
Was Heron keeping track of Agon?
Probably not. 

1084
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:20,760
He's probably too arrogant for 
that. 

1085
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,320
Probably didn't think they 
mattered what it is. 

1086
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,790
What's that little island? 
What do I care about that one 

1087
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:28,030
island One day they'll be mine, 
you know, or my my sons will 

1088
00:54:28,030 --> 00:54:30,990
rule them someday. 
That's probably more online than

1089
00:54:30,990 --> 00:54:32,230
him. 
His thinking he probably was 

1090
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:33,630
that arrogant. 
Not. 

1091
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:37,750
Certainly his later and earlier 
actions do imply that as 

1092
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:43,390
arrogant as our Galac, perhaps 
her and horror needed to. 

1093
00:54:43,950 --> 00:54:45,190
They should have fought over 
that nickname. 

1094
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:47,070
No, I'm more arrogant. 
No, I'm more arrogant. 

1095
00:54:49,150 --> 00:54:51,070
Maybe he did some common sense 
things like. 

1096
00:54:51,460 --> 00:54:54,780
Buy a few more crossbows, but 
they didn't know, like truly how

1097
00:54:54,780 --> 00:54:56,500
to fight Dragons. 
You know, maybe if there was a 

1098
00:54:56,500 --> 00:55:00,300
way to like if he had some 
Valyrian text that showed what 

1099
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:02,020
Dragons did to each other, 
maybe. 

1100
00:55:02,020 --> 00:55:05,020
But scorpions, that's what they 
needed were the scorpions and 

1101
00:55:05,180 --> 00:55:07,740
the big bolt throwers. 
But I don't know if you knew 

1102
00:55:07,740 --> 00:55:11,060
about that, but if he did, even 
that might have just, like, 

1103
00:55:12,050 --> 00:55:19,090
slowed it down a little. 
And as we saw he, he, when he 

1104
00:55:19,090 --> 00:55:21,410
does attack, which we'll get to 
later, he does it at night when 

1105
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:24,170
it's really hard to find your 
shoot him. 

1106
00:55:14,210 --> 00:55:16,530
A gun has to be a little more 
careful, but it doesn't win the 

1107
00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:25,610
battle. 
Like, where is he? 

1108
00:55:25,610 --> 00:55:28,050
You know it's dark. 
You only ever see it when the 

1109
00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:29,810
fire starts shooting out of his 
mouth. 

1110
00:55:29,810 --> 00:55:33,210
And then it's like, well, where 
exactly is he in that, you know?

1111
00:55:33,210 --> 00:55:36,180
And yeah, just. 
Nina says there's also a point 

1112
00:55:36,180 --> 00:55:38,740
to make here about timing with 
respect to both ideology and 

1113
00:55:38,740 --> 00:55:40,620
power. 
If Aegon really did decide to 

1114
00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:43,180
invade just at the moment Heron 
Hall was completed, then he was 

1115
00:55:43,180 --> 00:55:45,180
attacking Heron Hall at the 
point where both native 

1116
00:55:45,180 --> 00:55:47,900
Riverlands resentment against 
the horrors was at its peak, 

1117
00:55:48,020 --> 00:55:50,420
while native Riverlands power 
and resources were at their 

1118
00:55:50,420 --> 00:55:52,380
nadir. 
Also, it goes to that strength 

1119
00:55:52,380 --> 00:55:54,660
and he's like, I'm not going to 
attack you before you're ready. 

1120
00:55:55,140 --> 00:55:57,660
I'm going to wait till you're 
ready and then knock you down. 

1121
00:55:57,660 --> 00:56:00,820
So everyone knows that you know 
you were ready for me and I 

1122
00:56:00,820 --> 00:56:02,740
still beat you. 
Your castle was done. 

1123
00:56:02,740 --> 00:56:05,790
You declared it so. 
And I still beat you, and I 

1124
00:56:05,790 --> 00:56:08,550
still melted it, you know, like 
all that preparation. 

1125
00:56:08,550 --> 00:56:13,150
So yeah, Nina says Heron had 
effectively enslaved the native 

1126
00:56:13,150 --> 00:56:15,790
population of Riverland to build
a monument to his own absolute 

1127
00:56:15,790 --> 00:56:18,430
authority, the most crushing 
symbol of their lack of 

1128
00:56:18,430 --> 00:56:21,270
political identity and a system 
which considered them subhuman 

1129
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:23,710
compared to the Ironborn. 
It's kind of hard to think of 

1130
00:56:23,710 --> 00:56:26,070
that like the Ironborn are now 
like laughed at and thought of 

1131
00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,390
as a backwards people, but at 
this point. 

1132
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:33,980
They were at a well, this was a 
high point at this point and you

1133
00:56:33,980 --> 00:56:35,860
couldn't look down on the Iron 
Born in the same way. 

1134
00:56:35,860 --> 00:56:38,060
You might look down on them 
culturally, but you couldn't 

1135
00:56:38,060 --> 00:56:41,540
look down on them as a power 
like they are not a backwater 

1136
00:56:41,540 --> 00:56:43,500
reduced to the Iron Island 
situation. 

1137
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:48,020
Here they are arguably peaking 
and people didn't know that this

1138
00:56:48,020 --> 00:56:50,940
would be their peak. 
They thought it might go higher,

1139
00:56:50,940 --> 00:56:55,620
and they didn't know that Agon 
would set the whole peak of fire

1140
00:56:55,620 --> 00:56:59,150
and melt it down to nothing. 
So yeah, Riverlands resentment 

1141
00:56:59,150 --> 00:57:05,270
would have also been peaking and
Agon was counting on that and it

1142
00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:07,790
it worked. 
At the same time, however, 

1143
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:10,790
Riverlands resources were also 
at their most depleted, however,

1144
00:57:10,830 --> 00:57:13,590
because every year he was 
demanding more and more. 

1145
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:17,710
And it's not like it gets easier
to find stone and trees when 

1146
00:57:17,710 --> 00:57:20,070
you're cutting down so many and 
killing so many people in the 

1147
00:57:20,070 --> 00:57:24,870
mines and and overworking them 
to death, you start to run thin 

1148
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:27,460
of these things, so. 
The River Lands was with the 

1149
00:57:27,460 --> 00:57:33,220
thing, military investments. 
It could be complicated, but but

1150
00:57:33,220 --> 00:57:35,380
as a default military 
investment, it doesn't produce 

1151
00:57:35,380 --> 00:57:39,300
new stuff, right? 
Like if you tax the people and 

1152
00:57:39,300 --> 00:57:42,540
and you know, enslave the 
population in order to build 

1153
00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:45,620
more farms, well, after that you
have more of food. 

1154
00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:48,100
And you know, maybe that's not 
the best way to do it, but 

1155
00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:50,580
something got produced. 
But if you enslave the people 

1156
00:57:50,740 --> 00:57:54,980
and pillage the land to build a 
big castle, okay, well, now you 

1157
00:57:54,980 --> 00:57:57,610
got a big castle. 
No one's fed because you have a 

1158
00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:59,610
big castle. 
There's not any extra wood 

1159
00:57:59,730 --> 00:58:01,610
that's generated for the people 
or anything so. 

1160
00:58:02,530 --> 00:58:09,610
Right on. 
Next up, let's talk about. 

1161
00:58:12,410 --> 00:58:18,380
Oops. 
Aegon wasn't ready to introduce 

1162
00:58:18,380 --> 00:58:21,900
the biggest bully in Westeros to
Valerian, the biggest dragon in 

1163
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:26,220
the world, just yet. 
He had the plan, but as we said,

1164
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:27,860
there were some things he had to
do first. 

1165
00:58:27,860 --> 00:58:31,100
He announced the claim before a 
lot of the preparations were 

1166
00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:33,980
made, and that's probably in 
part because of what we just 

1167
00:58:34,380 --> 00:58:38,260
sort of sussed out with the fact
that he wanted to time things 

1168
00:58:38,260 --> 00:58:43,300
for Heron's completion and maybe
that. 

1169
00:58:44,740 --> 00:58:46,340
Didn't give him enough time to 
do some of those other things 

1170
00:58:46,340 --> 00:58:48,900
first, like, well, this is the 
the date we're working around. 

1171
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:52,660
So we got to get our claim 
forward and then start moving 

1172
00:58:52,660 --> 00:58:54,180
our troops and then all this 
other stuff. 

1173
00:58:55,380 --> 00:58:58,820
So let's take a few questions 
and then we'll come back with 

1174
00:58:58,820 --> 00:59:00,740
the beginning of the actual 
landing. 

1175
00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:05,940
Julie A, I wonder if Valerian 
was especially bred in Valeria 

1176
00:59:05,940 --> 00:59:07,780
or if he just had a super large 
egg. 

1177
00:59:07,780 --> 00:59:09,380
Oh, that's. 
Those are cool possibilities. 

1178
00:59:12,180 --> 00:59:15,090
You're muted muted share. 
Thanks, Sean. 

1179
00:59:15,090 --> 00:59:16,970
And then there was a 
continuation of that where 

1180
00:59:16,970 --> 00:59:20,010
Dornish Dame added on to that 
and said, ooh, that dragon 

1181
00:59:20,010 --> 00:59:23,090
breeding idea is interesting, 
actually, not something I 

1182
00:59:23,170 --> 00:59:25,810
thought of before, but if 
Valyrians were as advanced as 

1183
00:59:25,810 --> 00:59:29,450
we're told, surely they would 
have bred Dragons as Westerosi 

1184
00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:35,370
do, horses to horse breeding. 
And then Christina Kay replied 

1185
00:59:35,370 --> 00:59:38,210
and said I have a head cannon, 
that the Targaryens got to be 

1186
00:59:38,210 --> 00:59:41,610
noble by being like really good 
dragon breeders. 

1187
00:59:42,130 --> 00:59:44,770
Like a specialty, you know? 
Well, yeah. 

1188
00:59:44,930 --> 00:59:47,250
They weren't like a particularly
they weren't like the most 

1189
00:59:52,210 --> 00:59:54,970
respected of the of the Valyrian
houses. 

1190
00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:57,850
So which makes seem like they 
were more of a stewardly class, 

1191
00:59:57,850 --> 01:00:01,570
more of like the Tyrells to the 
Hightower as kind of classes. 

1192
01:00:01,730 --> 01:00:05,290
Or maybe like the Clay Gaines. 
Yeah, more of that like the dog 

1193
01:00:05,290 --> 01:00:07,210
breeder kind of thing. 
Yes, that that is a better 

1194
01:00:07,210 --> 01:00:09,590
comparison. 
Something that wouldn't be 

1195
01:00:09,590 --> 01:00:12,670
thought of is, is noble. 
Something you wouldn't be proud 

1196
01:00:12,670 --> 01:00:14,230
of. 
Something like common people do,

1197
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:17,870
but it might be unique and 
special enough, and they were 

1198
01:00:17,870 --> 01:00:20,750
good enough at it, you know? 
It's protected to you the 

1199
01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:22,910
secrets you need to. 
There's a lot of secrets behind 

1200
01:00:22,910 --> 01:00:24,030
it. 
Whereas with horsemanship, I 

1201
01:00:24,030 --> 01:00:25,990
don't know. 
If you was worried about people 

1202
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:28,230
finding out something, you still
would because you you like. 

1203
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:32,110
Horse superiority is a thing, 
and there's been plenty of times

1204
01:00:32,110 --> 01:00:35,750
where army's ancient armies have
clashed and the superiority of 

1205
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:38,320
horses. 
Has been the difference. 

1206
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,640
Like 1 group's horses are way 
bigger and stronger and that 

1207
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,960
makes a massive difference. 
Like we look at horses now, war 

1208
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,600
horses like look back. 
And like early medieval times 

1209
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,600
those horses were small people 
didn't fight from horseback. 

1210
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,960
They would ride to the battle, 
then get off the horse and then 

1211
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,000
fight because the horse wasn't 
really that well equipped for 

1212
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,240
it. 
They couldn't handle all this 

1213
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,320
armor and and let alone a rider 
wearing armor and all this 

1214
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,160
weaponry. 
But it took a lot of breeding to

1215
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:01,560
get to that point. 
Yeah, that's that's a really 

1216
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:03,560
good point. 
Dragons may very well follow the

1217
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:08,180
same umbrella. 
It's also the type of thing if 

1218
01:01:08,180 --> 01:01:10,140
you think about it a little and 
there's, you know, all kinds of 

1219
01:01:10,140 --> 01:01:12,260
research you can do on it. 
But there is a lot of difference

1220
01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:15,060
in types of forces, like some 
are bred to be bigger and 

1221
01:01:15,060 --> 01:01:17,980
stronger so like haul more 
weight, but some are bred to be 

1222
01:01:17,980 --> 01:01:21,300
more nimble and and to get up 
and down like you know, 

1223
01:01:21,420 --> 01:01:23,220
mountains and cliffs and uneven 
terrains. 

1224
01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:27,860
Some are built for endurance to 
travel long, long way on and on.

1225
01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:32,940
And so, you know, yeah, you can 
imagine both in general, like, 

1226
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:36,060
or in the real world or 
whatever, if you have some 

1227
01:01:36,060 --> 01:01:39,180
horses that are big and strong 
and they have these mounted 

1228
01:01:39,180 --> 01:01:43,180
Knights on them coming forward 
with lances, but you're on, you 

1229
01:01:43,180 --> 01:01:46,700
know, uneavy rocking rocky 
terrain with a river to cross. 

1230
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:50,460
And these other horses have just
like bareback riders, you know, 

1231
01:01:50,460 --> 01:01:51,860
like on our Native Americans or 
something. 

1232
01:01:51,860 --> 01:01:54,420
And they're quick and nimble, 
Can it cut really fast? 

1233
01:01:54,420 --> 01:01:56,620
They might just run circles 
around the heavy armored horses.

1234
01:01:57,660 --> 01:01:59,740
But if they both had the same 
types of horses, and one is 

1235
01:01:59,780 --> 01:02:01,700
trained for one thing and the 
other anyway, it wouldn't work 

1236
01:02:01,700 --> 01:02:03,250
as well. 
You could easily see that with 

1237
01:02:03,250 --> 01:02:04,410
Dragons. 
You could easily see some 

1238
01:02:04,410 --> 01:02:05,890
Dragons. 
You might want to fly a longer 

1239
01:02:05,890 --> 01:02:09,690
distance to have hotter breath 
to be tougher skinned. 

1240
01:02:10,290 --> 01:02:12,010
You could see all these 
different traits that might be 

1241
01:02:12,010 --> 01:02:15,450
bred and if the Targaryens made 
Balerian, right? 

1242
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:17,050
That wouldn't work out. 
Really. 

1243
01:02:17,090 --> 01:02:20,930
The other, Yeah, the other, the 
other houses might have been 

1244
01:02:20,930 --> 01:02:24,690
like, all right, fine. 
You can be noble, I guess you 

1245
01:02:24,690 --> 01:02:28,490
know you're making better 
Dragons than our Dragons, so. 

1246
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,280
I do like the idea of, besides 
the breeding, the really large 

1247
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:33,520
egg, those two ideas go 
together. 

1248
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,760
If you're raising your dragon 
well, then it might produce 

1249
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,200
abnormally large eggs. 
Or maybe there's something you 

1250
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:43,400
can do with the egg after it's 
laid to make it stronger. 

1251
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,320
I know. 
What you could do what sit on 

1252
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:46,040
it? 
Sit on it, you've. 

1253
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,300
Seen it in all those tails. 
That's right. 

1254
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:54,140
Yeah, maybe if they're incubated
at a certain temperature for a 

1255
01:02:54,140 --> 01:02:57,820
certain time or or within a 
certain magical realm, you know,

1256
01:02:57,820 --> 01:03:00,380
a certain vicinity to a certain 
mountaintop or whatever. 

1257
01:03:00,420 --> 01:03:03,500
You have Damon Targaryen singing
to them, perhaps. 

1258
01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:06,340
You know, I do think about 
things like the the singing and 

1259
01:03:06,340 --> 01:03:09,580
stuff like that and the things 
Damon was kind of looking into 

1260
01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:13,300
that he might just be tapping 
into his Targaryen roots. 

1261
01:03:13,300 --> 01:03:15,740
And he doesn't. 
Realize how much his family was 

1262
01:03:15,740 --> 01:03:18,860
really into that. 
Maybe he did read some random 

1263
01:03:18,860 --> 01:03:21,780
book that that Sarah threw at 
him when they were nine years 

1264
01:03:21,780 --> 01:03:23,660
old or something, you know? 
That's funny. 

1265
01:03:24,260 --> 01:03:28,700
Did I ever mention the example 
of the Comanche and the Apaches 

1266
01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:31,660
with regard to horses? 
I don't think so. 

1267
01:03:31,660 --> 01:03:35,060
So shout out to the channel 
Dates and Dead Guys on YouTube, 

1268
01:03:35,060 --> 01:03:38,100
which is a name that fits so 
well with the Song of Ice and 

1269
01:03:38,100 --> 01:03:41,460
Fire naming conventions, because
it reminds me of this horse 

1270
01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:43,580
discussion we're having with 
that relates to Dragons. 

1271
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:47,560
In like the 1840s. 
So not that long ago we're 

1272
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,800
talking about horses and horse 
superiority mattering. 

1273
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,360
In ancient times. 
It mattered 180 years ago as 

1274
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,600
well. 
It's not that long in the past, 

1275
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,040
what happened with United States
Army still had horse cavalry in 

1276
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,760
World War One, World War One 
riding into battle and. 

1277
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,760
Not just the US like the Germans
had it too, I believe. 

1278
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,480
Well, I point out the US because
we were relatively modern 

1279
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,200
compared to the other countries.
You know, like we had, you know,

1280
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,560
we we were making airplanes and 
stuff like that, but still had 

1281
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,320
horses. 
Here they're shipping horses 

1282
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,080
overseas to fight World War One.
When there's planes and 

1283
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,920
battleships and guns, yeah, we 
use planes and tanks also, but. 

1284
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,600
So the example was that the 
Spanish, of course, for a long 

1285
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,480
time, obviously controlled a lot
of what's now the United States 

1286
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:24,080
and they brought over there. 
But the point is, horses were 

1287
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,880
still part of, you know, Modern 
Warfare 100 years ago, not 

1288
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:40,980
ancient times. 
Super well bred Mustang horses. 

1289
01:04:41,140 --> 01:04:44,940
At one point a large number of 
Mustang horses were lost and 

1290
01:04:44,940 --> 01:04:51,260
they were taken by a group of 
Apache that became the Comanche.

1291
01:04:51,260 --> 01:04:52,460
Or maybe they were already the 
Comanche. 

1292
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:54,540
I forget what happened. 
What that part of it. 

1293
01:04:54,540 --> 01:04:58,220
I don't quote me on that part, 
but the Comanche became like the

1294
01:04:58,220 --> 01:05:02,060
Ironborn slashed Athraki of that
period because they were 

1295
01:05:02,060 --> 01:05:03,820
Raiders. 
They were really good at it. 

1296
01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:05,140
They knew the train better than 
anyone. 

1297
01:05:05,140 --> 01:05:07,780
You would never chase after them
because you would get counter 

1298
01:05:07,780 --> 01:05:09,380
ambushed. 
And you couldn't chase after 

1299
01:05:09,380 --> 01:05:10,740
them because their horses were 
faster. 

1300
01:05:11,660 --> 01:05:15,100
So they would strike out of out 
of nowhere and get away out of 

1301
01:05:15,100 --> 01:05:16,540
nowhere and you could never 
chase them. 

1302
01:05:17,220 --> 01:05:19,780
So that's like the nature of 
raiding. 

1303
01:05:20,020 --> 01:05:22,980
And this was because they had 
these Spanish bred horses where 

1304
01:05:22,980 --> 01:05:25,660
the horses native to the US and 
well, there's no horses native 

1305
01:05:25,660 --> 01:05:27,340
to the US. 
The horses that had started over

1306
01:05:27,340 --> 01:05:31,220
there were nothing like these 
exceptional top of the line 

1307
01:05:31,780 --> 01:05:34,500
European war horses that once 
the Comanche got hold of them, 

1308
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:37,140
their advantage was just 
overwhelming to all the other 

1309
01:05:37,140 --> 01:05:40,430
tribes in their area. 
As well as to the against the US

1310
01:05:40,510 --> 01:05:42,670
when the US came along and was 
fighting and were like, damn 

1311
01:05:42,670 --> 01:05:45,430
these, this tribe has incredible
horses crap. 

1312
01:05:45,430 --> 01:05:47,190
Where did they get the And 
they're like, well, from the 

1313
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:49,190
Spanish, that's where they got 
them. 

1314
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:50,550
And you can, I wish I knew a 
little better. 

1315
01:05:50,550 --> 01:05:53,710
But I can imagine the Mustangs 
maybe were bred for 

1316
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:56,550
maneuverability and quickness 
and not power and strength. 

1317
01:05:56,550 --> 01:05:59,950
And so a lot of the horses 
coming across from the east to 

1318
01:05:59,950 --> 01:06:03,200
the West were the big strong 
ones hauling carts. 

1319
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,040
They're not fast and nimble. 
Well, the Comanche also knew a 

1320
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,880
lot about horse breeding By that
time they'd learned or cause. 

1321
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,480
Horses have been in America for 
a long time. 

1322
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,280
So they took those horses and 
then trained them a little 

1323
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:16,960
differently and bred them a 
little differently, a little 

1324
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,280
more suited to their needs than 
with the Spanish, but similar. 

1325
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,640
But what you're saying is still 
true, just they they branched 

1326
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,320
off into an all new direction 
for their own needs. 

1327
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,940
Couple other notes here. 
Matt Rees points out a small 

1328
01:06:29,940 --> 01:06:34,100
error I made in my description 
of the Persians and the 

1329
01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:38,780
Babylonians and the Assyrians. 
It wasn't the Assyrians that the

1330
01:06:39,460 --> 01:06:41,820
Cyrus the Great overthrew, it 
was the Meads. 

1331
01:06:42,260 --> 01:06:45,220
The Assyrians had taken Babylon,
the Meads took it from them and 

1332
01:06:45,220 --> 01:06:46,620
then the Persians took it from 
the Meads. 

1333
01:06:46,620 --> 01:06:50,100
So ultimately my example was the
point I got across was still 

1334
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:51,980
accurate, but I want to be 
historically accurate. 

1335
01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:53,580
So thanks for the correction 
there, Matt Rees. 

1336
01:06:54,300 --> 01:06:57,260
Several people pointed out that 
we had a little feet yards goof 

1337
01:06:57,260 --> 01:06:59,950
last week. 
When you talked about pay to 

1338
01:06:59,950 --> 01:07:01,950
tail being 50 foot longer, like 
that's half a football field, 

1339
01:07:01,950 --> 01:07:04,990
Like no, that's 50 yards, just 
three times longer. 

1340
01:07:04,990 --> 01:07:08,510
So whoops. 
I feel similarly though, that 

1341
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:12,030
that I might have been off on 
the detail of the, you know, the

1342
01:07:12,030 --> 01:07:13,710
yard versus the feet, but it's 
still preposterous. 

1343
01:07:13,710 --> 01:07:15,670
A50 foot table. 
It's also still crazy. 

1344
01:07:15,870 --> 01:07:18,350
It is still. 
It is extreme, but not crazy, 

1345
01:07:18,350 --> 01:07:21,670
not preposterous because we 
certainly have people link us to

1346
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:26,850
examples and the Facebook group 
and whatnot of. 50 feet, 40 feet

1347
01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:30,090
tables that like there was that 
are be around today. 

1348
01:07:30,090 --> 01:07:33,530
But not 150 feet. 
Yeah, you don't necessarily need

1349
01:07:33,530 --> 01:07:37,450
a soccer stadium to house them, 
but you still can't really. 

1350
01:07:38,330 --> 01:07:40,370
Again, think of the idea of like
looking at the map. 

1351
01:07:40,370 --> 01:07:42,490
You're on one end of the table 
looking at corn. 

1352
01:07:42,610 --> 01:07:45,810
You cannot see the wall. 
You cannot even see King's 

1353
01:07:45,810 --> 01:07:46,770
Landing. 
It's too far away. 

1354
01:07:46,770 --> 01:07:48,850
Across the table. 
So he stayed fit OK because he 

1355
01:07:49,050 --> 01:07:51,170
had to walk around the. 
Table, he said. 

1356
01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:52,330
Dog around the table. 
Run. 

1357
01:07:52,650 --> 01:07:54,090
All over here, it's like I'm out
of breath running. 

1358
01:07:54,090 --> 01:07:55,520
From over here it's like. 
Check out every. 

1359
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:58,520
Hold on. 
OK, OK, look over here. 

1360
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:01,880
Oh yeah, 50 feet. 
Very possible. 

1361
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,880
Definitely unwieldy. 
Impressive all that. 

1362
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:10,000
But possible for sure. 50 yards 
as as I definitely also was 

1363
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,960
imagining. 
Not very possible. 

1364
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,359
Very difficult. 
Christina Kay made a great point

1365
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:19,640
last week about how George uses 
mystery. 

1366
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,080
He does. 
He presents them in a variety of

1367
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,359
ways. 
One of the ways he does it is 

1368
01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:25,870
that. 
He doesn't make it. 

1369
01:08:25,870 --> 01:08:28,109
He doesn't tell us it's a 
mystery, or he tells us it's a 

1370
01:08:28,109 --> 01:08:31,189
resolved mystery, but it isn't. 
It's falsely resolved, like the 

1371
01:08:31,350 --> 01:08:33,950
like the issue of maybe John's 
parentage, which a lot of people

1372
01:08:33,950 --> 01:08:36,310
in the world think they have the
answer and the only reason. 

1373
01:08:36,310 --> 01:08:38,390
But we have to ask ourselves 
that it's we have to realize 

1374
01:08:38,390 --> 01:08:40,870
it's a mystery because people in
the book aren't sitting there 

1375
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:43,430
wondering who is John's dad. 
John isn't wondering, or mom, 

1376
01:08:43,550 --> 01:08:46,630
John's not well or both. 
John's not wondering that well. 

1377
01:08:46,630 --> 01:08:48,430
He is about his mom, but only at
the beginning. 

1378
01:08:48,430 --> 01:08:51,630
He doesn't really think about it
later, maybe only once at most. 

1379
01:08:52,310 --> 01:08:54,729
So. 
Benita expands on that idea. 

1380
01:08:54,729 --> 01:08:56,130
It's like George does this a lot
of different ways. 

1381
01:08:56,130 --> 01:08:57,850
That's one of them. 
But sometimes he does have the 

1382
01:08:57,850 --> 01:08:59,410
mask. 
Sometimes they're very deep in 

1383
01:08:59,410 --> 01:09:02,370
the mystery themselves, like 
John or like Ned trying to 

1384
01:09:02,370 --> 01:09:06,210
figure out who killed John, 
Aaron or Ned trying to figure or

1385
01:09:07,090 --> 01:09:10,850
the the pink letters, one that 
the fandom invented as a mystery

1386
01:09:10,850 --> 01:09:12,450
that isn't necessarily one that 
was intended to be. 

1387
01:09:13,170 --> 01:09:15,910
But. 
That's just that works out as an

1388
01:09:15,910 --> 01:09:18,109
example here too. 
Just something that becomes a 

1389
01:09:18,109 --> 01:09:21,149
mystery because of the way we 
see it versus what people in 

1390
01:09:21,149 --> 01:09:23,710
world see it as, like the 
identity of young Griff. 

1391
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:27,910
Tyrion does question it only a 
little bit, but he does question

1392
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:30,510
it. 
So that is an example of like if

1393
01:09:30,510 --> 01:09:32,710
someone had sat there and go, I 
don't know about John, so I 

1394
01:09:32,750 --> 01:09:34,350
don't know if I don't think 
Ned's his dad. 

1395
01:09:34,350 --> 01:09:37,229
If someone had that thought 
which no one has had, not even 

1396
01:09:37,229 --> 01:09:41,350
Ned, not John, then it that 
mystery would be framed a lot 

1397
01:09:41,350 --> 01:09:44,779
differently. 
But so George is not going to 

1398
01:09:44,779 --> 01:09:47,660
that same playbook every time. 
He uses a variety of ways to 

1399
01:09:47,660 --> 01:09:53,180
frame mysteries, and that keeps 
us on our toes like, well, this 

1400
01:09:53,180 --> 01:09:55,540
pattern is not the same pattern 
being followed here. 

1401
01:09:55,540 --> 01:09:57,020
This is, he's just really good 
at it. 

1402
01:09:57,180 --> 01:10:00,940
That's the bottom line, yeah. 
Sometimes they, you know, even 

1403
01:10:00,940 --> 01:10:03,500
in the real world, even 
something that is known, there 

1404
01:10:03,500 --> 01:10:05,580
is still a reason to question 
it, right? 

1405
01:10:05,660 --> 01:10:09,300
Maybe there's some bias involved
or some piece that doesn't add 

1406
01:10:09,300 --> 01:10:12,720
up and and so that would happen 
in in George's world too. 

1407
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,200
Like even something that is 
factual there would still be 

1408
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:19,240
some people that have reason to 
question it and so that gives 

1409
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,080
the audience a reason to 
question and sometimes you 

1410
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,720
question it and and the audience
even can have a better 

1411
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,080
perspective because we're 
reading different people's 

1412
01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:27,520
perspective. 
We can have knowledge of 1. 

1413
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,600
Character doesn't have another 
but but the audience doesn't 

1414
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:32,320
always have all the knowledge 
either obviously. 

1415
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,960
So that, like you said, there's 
a lot of different ways for him 

1416
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,040
to come at us, like with these 
mysteries. 

1417
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,760
Like another good example is 
who's the Harpy? 

1418
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,440
Like we're wondering who the 
Harpy is. 

1419
01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:42,600
So are the characters. 
We're all kind of together on 

1420
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,680
that and we kind of have the 
same information. 

1421
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,440
So, but that's completely 
different than the Jon Snow 

1422
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:51,600
example. 
So that's neat. 

1423
01:10:52,610 --> 01:10:54,890
One of your greenstones asks, 
should we be reading Fire and 

1424
01:10:54,890 --> 01:10:57,410
Blood with a gun stream in mind.
Now we we briefly clarified this

1425
01:10:57,410 --> 01:10:59,570
at the beginning of the first 
episode, but let's let's clarify

1426
01:10:59,570 --> 01:11:01,330
it further. 
I think yes, but I think it's a 

1427
01:11:01,330 --> 01:11:03,730
year mileage may vary thing. 
I think if you've already read 

1428
01:11:03,730 --> 01:11:05,650
Fire and Blood Without it in 
Mind, which you probably 

1429
01:11:05,650 --> 01:11:08,770
haven't, or probably have read 
it without it in mind, why not 

1430
01:11:08,770 --> 01:11:10,530
read it within mind? 
This time it'll feel a little 

1431
01:11:10,530 --> 01:11:11,970
different. 
It'll come off a little 

1432
01:11:11,970 --> 01:11:13,170
different. 
Most of the information is the 

1433
01:11:13,170 --> 01:11:15,450
same, but it'll be it's a little
different. 

1434
01:11:15,450 --> 01:11:17,210
Look at a book it's that you've 
already read. 

1435
01:11:17,210 --> 01:11:19,730
So I think it's fun to read it 
with that in mind. 

1436
01:11:20,290 --> 01:11:22,770
You don't have to take it as 
cannon because technically, yes,

1437
01:11:22,770 --> 01:11:24,890
George has said it probably 
applies to the books. 

1438
01:11:24,890 --> 01:11:26,490
Well, he didn't say it probably 
applies to the books. 

1439
01:11:26,490 --> 01:11:28,730
The way he's framed it, it 
almost certainly applies to the 

1440
01:11:28,730 --> 01:11:31,930
books, but not necessarily the 
same way it applies to the show.

1441
01:11:32,210 --> 01:11:34,530
Like his take on it might be 
different than the way we were 

1442
01:11:34,530 --> 01:11:35,970
presented in the show. 
So there's definitely some 

1443
01:11:35,970 --> 01:11:39,090
wiggle room as to what George 
exactly intends for a guns dream

1444
01:11:39,090 --> 01:11:40,890
to have been. 
We have to keep that in mind. 

1445
01:11:41,690 --> 01:11:44,770
But personally, absolutely yes, 
we're keeping it in mind. 

1446
01:11:44,970 --> 01:11:47,730
I think it's more fun to do 
that, but we have to keep be 

1447
01:11:47,730 --> 01:11:50,900
careful with. 
Reading too much into it and 

1448
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:54,660
being and not taking the show 
too directly in its 

1449
01:11:54,660 --> 01:11:58,660
interpretation, just as a the 
show is like a guideline for us.

1450
01:11:58,660 --> 01:12:04,020
I think this is, you know, 
another angle to take. 

1451
01:12:04,620 --> 01:12:07,780
Should you read A Game of 
Thrones with a clash of king in 

1452
01:12:07,780 --> 01:12:10,220
mind? 
Like if you read them all and 

1453
01:12:10,220 --> 01:12:12,260
you're rereading it, I think you
should, right? 

1454
01:12:12,740 --> 01:12:16,620
George didn't necessarily have 
everything and and that he ended

1455
01:12:16,620 --> 01:12:18,740
up writing in A Dance of 
Dragons. 

1456
01:12:18,990 --> 01:12:21,110
He didn't have all that set in 
his brain when he started 

1457
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:23,910
reading game of. 
That's true, but he kept Game of

1458
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:26,510
Thrones in mind when he wrote 
Dance of Dragons. 

1459
01:12:26,510 --> 01:12:27,870
He wants those dots to connect 
still. 

1460
01:12:27,870 --> 01:12:30,190
Yeah, right. 
So I think when he wrote Fire 

1461
01:12:30,190 --> 01:12:33,710
and Blood, he wanted all the 
things to to to add up with what

1462
01:12:33,710 --> 01:12:35,910
he'd written so far. 
When he makes a statement to the

1463
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:39,550
world about hey, there's this 
prophecy the a gun had I I think

1464
01:12:39,550 --> 01:12:41,950
that he is keeping it all tied 
together. 

1465
01:12:41,950 --> 01:12:43,590
I don't think he's just saying 
it Willy nilly. 

1466
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:47,390
I think he intends he he wants 
at least for it to all drive 

1467
01:12:47,710 --> 01:12:49,630
right. 
He's probably thought and made 

1468
01:12:49,630 --> 01:12:52,670
sure that it does. 
Even if he didn't exactly have 

1469
01:12:52,670 --> 01:12:55,670
the intention in the 1st place, 
I still think it's worth us at 

1470
01:12:55,670 --> 01:12:58,230
least accounting for. 
Yeah, let's talk a little bit 

1471
01:12:58,230 --> 01:13:00,270
about his writing style. 
I think it's just briefly. 

1472
01:13:00,270 --> 01:13:01,470
I think that fits really well 
here. 

1473
01:13:01,470 --> 01:13:04,710
For example, there's one one 
part from the books people cite 

1474
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:07,470
as something George set up way 
to advance. 

1475
01:13:07,590 --> 01:13:10,190
But no, he didn't actually, he 
he realized it would fit later. 

1476
01:13:10,190 --> 01:13:12,550
And then what I'm talking about 
is when Santa thinks about 

1477
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:14,550
Janice Lint that she wishes some
hero would. 

1478
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,840
Throw him down and cut his head 
off, you know, And then Jon Snow

1479
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,200
does that later. 
But people point out that in the

1480
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,920
original draft of A Dance of 
Dragons, he's hanged not had his

1481
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:26,960
head cut off. 
So George didn't plan all the 

1482
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:28,840
way back in The Clash of Kings 
for John to cut his head off. 

1483
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,510
But. 
Which is true, George didn't 

1484
01:13:32,510 --> 01:13:34,670
plan all the way back into Clash
of Kings for John to cut his 

1485
01:13:34,670 --> 01:13:35,470
head off. 
Probably not. 

1486
01:13:35,790 --> 01:13:37,270
But there's a couple of 
possibilities here. 

1487
01:13:37,270 --> 01:13:39,470
Maybe he did and forgot about 
and then later realized like, Oh

1488
01:13:39,470 --> 01:13:41,190
yeah, actually I was going to 
have John cut his head off 

1489
01:13:41,190 --> 01:13:43,070
because of that line I made back
in Clash of King. 

1490
01:13:43,070 --> 01:13:46,350
Maybe he just forgot that and 
editing he realized, Oh yeah, I 

1491
01:13:46,350 --> 01:13:49,310
was going to do that. 
Or perhaps more likely, he 

1492
01:13:49,310 --> 01:13:51,510
realized he could fit it to that
point. 

1493
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:53,990
He made back things like, oh I 
can connect this to what Santa 

1494
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:56,950
said back then by making this a 
head, a head chopping instead of

1495
01:13:56,950 --> 01:14:00,020
a hanging. 
And that's totally valid. 

1496
01:14:00,020 --> 01:14:03,460
Because of the way George writes
in his gardener style, he leaves

1497
01:14:03,460 --> 01:14:05,700
room for this. 
It's one of the reasons the dots

1498
01:14:05,700 --> 01:14:08,620
connect so well is he doesn't 
write himself in the corners. 

1499
01:14:08,620 --> 01:14:12,500
He leaves this option to connect
the dots later. 

1500
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:15,940
He doesn't have to go. 
I don't know where this dots 

1501
01:14:15,940 --> 01:14:17,500
going to. 
I know exactly where this dots 

1502
01:14:17,500 --> 01:14:20,020
going to connect later. 
Sometimes he does do that, but 

1503
01:14:20,020 --> 01:14:21,860
he doesn't always have to. 
He can go all right. 

1504
01:14:21,860 --> 01:14:24,460
As long as I write this 
properly, I can connect 

1505
01:14:24,460 --> 01:14:26,540
something to it later. 
Once I figure out what that is, 

1506
01:14:26,540 --> 01:14:28,060
I don't have to decide right 
now. 

1507
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:32,200
And it'll work later, and it 
sets him up for success down the

1508
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,440
road or for good storytelling 
down the road. 

1509
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:37,840
It's another value we talked a 
little about earlier, about how 

1510
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,600
broad his story has gotten, all 
the back story he's included. 

1511
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,240
When you do that, you give 
yourself more options and 

1512
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:45,080
inspiration to tie stuff in 
later. 

1513
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:48,800
I think about one time he when 
he was describing the idea of 

1514
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:54,000
his gardening style, he did say,
you know, like I don't exactly 

1515
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,220
know what the garden's going to 
look like at the end, but I know

1516
01:14:57,220 --> 01:15:00,580
I planted tomatoes. 
I may choose to water them or 

1517
01:15:00,580 --> 01:15:02,500
not, but I know I did plant 
tomatoes. 

1518
01:15:02,500 --> 01:15:05,220
I didn't plant bananas. 
So it's not like a complete 

1519
01:15:05,220 --> 01:15:06,820
mystery. 
He has an intention for the 

1520
01:15:06,820 --> 01:15:08,700
garden might adjust it. 
It might come out a little 

1521
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:10,700
different than he thought. 
But he knows what he planted. 

1522
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:12,660
I think also about Better Call 
Saul. 

1523
01:15:12,940 --> 01:15:15,660
The writers of that show said 
that they and and it's clear 

1524
01:15:15,660 --> 01:15:19,290
when you watch it that they 
harvest what they've done so far

1525
01:15:19,290 --> 01:15:21,930
that as they write, they're 
constantly looking back at what 

1526
01:15:21,930 --> 01:15:24,970
they've done, finding things to 
pull out from that, which I 

1527
01:15:24,970 --> 01:15:27,250
imagine George has a certain 
amount of that that even using 

1528
01:15:27,250 --> 01:15:28,930
the word harvest. 
Yeah, that metaphor we're 

1529
01:15:28,930 --> 01:15:32,810
talking about, yeah. 
If you got to draw, get a good 

1530
01:15:32,810 --> 01:15:37,000
harvest out of that good 
gardening, you know, and Better 

1531
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,240
Call Saul, for example. 
It's a prequel to Breaking Bad, 

1532
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,000
so they knew certain things had 
to happen. 

1533
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,200
Yeah, like, right over, right. 
What's already there. 

1534
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:45,720
Yeah, right. 
But despite. 

1535
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:48,080
So that's like their guidance, 
that's what they know is planted

1536
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:49,680
in their garden. 
But they still their writing 

1537
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,080
style was generally more looking
on, looking back to what they 

1538
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,360
had done so far and seeing what 
they could pull from it. 

1539
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:57,720
And so a lot of times when 
you're watching oh what a good 

1540
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:00,080
call back to this thing earlier,
it doesn't mean when they did 

1541
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,520
that thing earlier, they plan 
for this thing happening now. 

1542
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,640
It means that they look to what 
happened earlier to decide what 

1543
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,320
to do now, you know, and I I bet
George does a large amount of 

1544
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,160
that. 
So to wrap up points before we 

1545
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,520
start egg guns landing so to to 
finally finish Guinevere 

1546
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,280
Greenstone's point you should 
read it how you want to. 

1547
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:18,920
I recommend reading with egg on 
stream in mind. 

1548
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:22,040
You definitely don't have to. 
I think you should enjoy the 

1549
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,280
book the way you want to. 
But if you want to follow along 

1550
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,880
with us as well as you can then 
I do recommend that out of that 

1551
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,280
that having that point in your 
mind. 

1552
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,800
Another thing referring back to 
the discussion about breeding 

1553
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:34,680
and Dragons and and just 
breeding in general is. 

1554
01:16:35,740 --> 01:16:38,180
The Valyrians were so big on 
just breeding in general. 

1555
01:16:38,180 --> 01:16:40,460
I mean, they're big on breeding 
in humans, like they took it to 

1556
01:16:40,500 --> 01:16:44,380
a creepy supernatural level. 
So yeah, it just fits in really 

1557
01:16:44,380 --> 01:16:47,340
well with what we already know 
about what things they were 

1558
01:16:47,340 --> 01:16:49,100
doing. 
Not necessarily how Targaryen, 

1559
01:16:49,100 --> 01:16:52,020
but things that the Valyrians 
were doing, which the Targaryens

1560
01:16:52,020 --> 01:16:55,140
were very likely neck deep in as
well given their relative 

1561
01:16:55,140 --> 01:17:00,340
position in that society. 
So important to keep that in 

1562
01:17:00,340 --> 01:17:02,740
mind, I'd say. 
But yes, the actual landing. 

1563
01:17:03,630 --> 01:17:05,750
As I said at the beginning, 
setting out with a small army is

1564
01:17:05,750 --> 01:17:08,510
another Stannis parallel. 
Solis even mentioned that she's 

1565
01:17:08,510 --> 01:17:12,550
like you're like AG on the 
Conqueror going and he's like I 

1566
01:17:12,550 --> 01:17:14,750
don't have Dragons. 
It's like what the hell are you 

1567
01:17:14,750 --> 01:17:18,270
talking about woman? 
You know Sanus is harsh way of 

1568
01:17:18,270 --> 01:17:19,630
speaking. 
You know, melisange is like, 

1569
01:17:19,630 --> 01:17:23,350
yes, but you do have this and so
if you have this and that and 

1570
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:26,150
they're trying to pump him up 
and prepare him for. 

1571
01:17:27,100 --> 01:17:31,140
Well, initial failure and then 
probably later failure, but 

1572
01:17:31,180 --> 01:17:33,540
along the way lots of 
entertainment and setting things

1573
01:17:33,540 --> 01:17:37,300
up for other plot lines. 
We'll see, won't we though? 

1574
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:40,060
He likely already had Heron in 
mind to knock off 1st. 

1575
01:17:40,060 --> 01:17:43,500
As we said, he had to establish 
himself on the mainland first, 

1576
01:17:43,500 --> 01:17:46,900
which is this is amazing. 
He sets up and he's like, I 

1577
01:17:46,900 --> 01:17:49,820
don't have a base, I don't have 
a lot of men, I dare you to come

1578
01:17:49,820 --> 01:17:52,140
attack me first before I get my 
conquest going. 

1579
01:17:52,140 --> 01:17:54,740
And none of them did, which is 
probably just emboldened him and

1580
01:17:54,740 --> 01:17:56,700
it supported you more like we're
just right here. 

1581
01:17:57,100 --> 01:18:01,180
In between the Storm Lands and 
Herons Kingdom, we're not that 

1582
01:18:01,180 --> 01:18:03,940
far from the West. 
Anyone, any of Y'all or the 

1583
01:18:03,940 --> 01:18:06,060
gardeners, any of them could 
just March right to the mouth of

1584
01:18:06,060 --> 01:18:09,820
the Blackwater and attack him 
together or separately, and it 

1585
01:18:09,820 --> 01:18:11,860
would have been interesting and 
they might have even pulled it 

1586
01:18:11,860 --> 01:18:16,020
off, certainly working about a 
better chance, right? 

1587
01:18:16,020 --> 01:18:17,380
Yeah, if they had worked 
together. 

1588
01:18:17,780 --> 01:18:19,620
They come from different 
directions because the Dragons 

1589
01:18:19,620 --> 01:18:22,580
aren't quite as good on defense,
you know, like they're on the 

1590
01:18:22,580 --> 01:18:24,580
ground and you're suddenly 
getting attacked from three 

1591
01:18:24,580 --> 01:18:28,230
sides. 
I still might bet, especially 

1592
01:18:28,230 --> 01:18:30,310
because the Dragons are good at 
scouting, so they might have 

1593
01:18:30,310 --> 01:18:32,510
seen it coming, you know? 
But you're right. 

1594
01:18:32,510 --> 01:18:34,110
It would have been interesting. 
Like you said, it would have 

1595
01:18:34,110 --> 01:18:35,470
been interesting. 
It would have been hard for 

1596
01:18:35,470 --> 01:18:37,750
Aegon's plan to have played out 
as well as it did. 

1597
01:18:38,110 --> 01:18:41,190
They had. 
So it's funny, he says. 

1598
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:44,430
This began at the mouth of the 
Blackwater, a place that it 

1599
01:18:44,430 --> 01:18:46,630
seems the ancients failed to 
capitalize on. 

1600
01:18:46,670 --> 01:18:49,990
Aegon would literally capitalize
on the place, making it his 

1601
01:18:49,990 --> 01:18:52,550
capital. 
Not that other Lords and kings 

1602
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:54,590
hadn't tried to rule the place. 
It just. 

1603
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,080
It had never been developed for 
various reasons. 

1604
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:02,720
Here's a quote. 
In the days of the 100 kingdoms,

1605
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:06,200
many petty kings had claimed 
dominion over the river mouth, 

1606
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:10,760
amongst them the Darklin Kings 
of Dunscandale, the masses of 

1607
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:15,640
Stone Dance, and the River Kings
of old, be they muds, fishers, 

1608
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:20,500
brackens, blackwoods or hooks. 
Powers and forts had crowned the

1609
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:24,500
Three hills at various times, 
only to be thrown down in one 

1610
01:19:24,500 --> 01:19:28,260
war or another. 
Now only broken stones and 

1611
01:19:28,260 --> 01:19:31,580
overgrown ruins remain to 
welcome the Targaryens. 

1612
01:19:32,020 --> 01:19:35,620
Though claimed by both Storm's 
End and Heron Hall, the river 

1613
01:19:35,620 --> 01:19:39,420
mouth was undefended and the 
closest castles were held by 

1614
01:19:39,420 --> 01:19:43,580
lesser Lords of no great power 
or military prowess. 

1615
01:19:44,100 --> 01:19:47,700
And Lords, moreover, who had 
little reason to love their 

1616
01:19:47,700 --> 01:19:52,540
nominal overlord hair in the 
black Aegon Targaryen, quickly 

1617
01:19:52,540 --> 01:19:56,260
threw up a log and earth 
palisade around the highest of 

1618
01:19:56,260 --> 01:19:59,660
the three hills, and dispatched 
his sisters to secure the 

1619
01:19:59,660 --> 01:20:01,460
submission of the nearest 
castles. 

1620
01:20:02,380 --> 01:20:04,220
Let's consider some of those 
former claims briefly. 

1621
01:20:04,580 --> 01:20:07,460
Bracken and Blackwood. 
That's pretty far away. 

1622
01:20:07,460 --> 01:20:09,220
Those are eyebrow raising 
claims. 

1623
01:20:09,220 --> 01:20:11,660
But no, we're talking about 
thousands of years of history, 

1624
01:20:11,660 --> 01:20:16,740
of ins and outs and rises and 
falls and yeah, mud and Fisher 

1625
01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:20,060
and hook don't even or hooks 
don't even exist anymore. 

1626
01:20:20,260 --> 01:20:22,580
Those houses, they all sound 
like they belong in the 

1627
01:20:22,580 --> 01:20:26,220
Riverlands River mud, river 
hooks for fishing, you know. 

1628
01:20:27,260 --> 01:20:29,780
But the bracken Blackwood 
claims, Despite that might be 

1629
01:20:29,780 --> 01:20:32,100
even older than these houses 
that are extinct. 

1630
01:20:33,580 --> 01:20:35,580
Massey is a lowkey, interesting 
player here. 

1631
01:20:35,580 --> 01:20:37,460
We'll have things to say about 
them on and off. 

1632
01:20:38,290 --> 01:20:42,170
As we've talked about a lot of 
times, there's times when houses

1633
01:20:42,170 --> 01:20:45,850
find themselves within a 
sandwich and the masses are 

1634
01:20:45,850 --> 01:20:48,010
example of that. 
They're pretty much sandwiched 

1635
01:20:48,010 --> 01:20:49,450
between Dragonstone and Storm's 
End. 

1636
01:20:49,730 --> 01:20:54,770
As we said, they started to show
up at Aegon's councils more and 

1637
01:20:54,970 --> 01:20:57,250
we're supposed to be vassals of 
Storm's End, but we're pretty 

1638
01:20:57,250 --> 01:21:00,730
clearly on team Aegon here. 
So that's the side of the 

1639
01:21:00,730 --> 01:21:02,290
sandwich they gravitated 
towards. 

1640
01:21:03,210 --> 01:21:06,400
And what's what makes it 
difficult for them is, yeah, 

1641
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,400
they're actually physically 
closer to Dragonstone, but 

1642
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:13,160
there's a sea separating them 
from Dragonstone and the 

1643
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:15,280
mainland. 
Whereas our galactic conceivably

1644
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,160
just March right up through the 
storm lands and just walk right 

1645
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:21,400
up to their door without any 
impediment and say you're on 

1646
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,720
whose team now you're like 
actually OK, we'll come back 

1647
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:30,080
because by themselves the masses
would not be able to repel an 

1648
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:34,520
attack of the Storm Lands. 
Of course Heron Hall's claim to 

1649
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,520
the river mouth was the most 
recent and the most dangerous. 

1650
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,800
And as we saw the Storm lands 
claim was somewhat rooted in 

1651
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,400
creating a buffer. 
As we saw our galactic Ergon's 

1652
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:51,560
marriage offer was rooted in 
making egg on barrier between 

1653
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,440
his lands and Heron's 
expansions. 

1654
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,000
So the area clearly had a lot of
potential. 

1655
01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:59,560
I mean we're going to see 
Kingsland become the largest 

1656
01:21:59,900 --> 01:22:03,020
city in the entire realm. 
So clearly the area has 

1657
01:22:03,260 --> 01:22:05,860
potential and that's obvious 
even without seeing the final 

1658
01:22:05,860 --> 01:22:08,900
result because it's a river 
mouth and there's just so much 

1659
01:22:08,900 --> 01:22:11,620
possible trade there. 
When you're at a river mouth, 

1660
01:22:11,620 --> 01:22:14,260
you've got the trade going up 
river and the trade coming from 

1661
01:22:14,540 --> 01:22:17,740
the sea and you're at the Nexus 
of those two things. 

1662
01:22:17,740 --> 01:22:20,580
Plus you've got land based trade
as well. 

1663
01:22:21,300 --> 01:22:23,940
And that's going to be part of 
why that area becomes so big, 

1664
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,200
Nina says. 
You might compare it to White 

1665
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:27,480
Harbor. 
The reason there had never been 

1666
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:29,480
a major city at that location 
isn't because it isn't 

1667
01:22:29,480 --> 01:22:30,960
strategically or commercially 
useful. 

1668
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:33,760
It certainly is. 
But because cities cost a lot of

1669
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:38,760
resources to build and maintain,
upfront capital is required, an 

1670
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,240
amount that the Royal Stark 
simply didn't have. 

1671
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:45,000
They're too busy, for example, 
spending their money on 

1672
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,280
preparing for the next winter. 
They never have, like extra 

1673
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,280
enough amount of cash to build a
whole city, right? 

1674
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:54,360
Like that's a lot of initial 
investment. 

1675
01:22:55,140 --> 01:22:58,740
It takes a certain ambition. 
It takes a certain amount of, I 

1676
01:22:58,740 --> 01:23:02,180
don't know, foundational wealth 
and an ambition and the the 

1677
01:23:02,300 --> 01:23:05,340
clearly, the stark motto is when
it's coming, you know they're 

1678
01:23:05,340 --> 01:23:08,700
going to rather than if they 
ever have a surplus, rather than

1679
01:23:08,700 --> 01:23:10,780
investing in building a new 
city, they're going to set it 

1680
01:23:10,780 --> 01:23:13,420
aside for the next winter. 
Yeah, and you might argue too, 

1681
01:23:13,420 --> 01:23:16,420
some Starks might be like, why 
do we want to increase the 

1682
01:23:16,420 --> 01:23:18,860
population of the North? 
That's just more mouths to feed,

1683
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,720
especially in a city that 
doesn't produce. 

1684
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:26,240
Cities don't produce food. 
The lands around them might, but

1685
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:29,680
cities produce like goods and 
wealth and and into linkage. 

1686
01:23:30,370 --> 01:23:32,970
They could trade that for 
imported food. 

1687
01:23:32,970 --> 01:23:35,290
It's I think it's a little 
shortsighted to not want the 

1688
01:23:35,290 --> 01:23:36,010
city. 
I agree. 

1689
01:23:36,010 --> 01:23:37,570
I agree because. 
It's understandable to be 

1690
01:23:37,570 --> 01:23:41,250
shortsighted when you live in a 
desolate, frozen wasteland. 

1691
01:23:41,250 --> 01:23:43,490
You might not see how that would
work out to your benefit. 

1692
01:23:43,490 --> 01:23:45,090
You might be like, yeah, no, 
just adding all these people. 

1693
01:23:45,090 --> 01:23:46,850
That sounds like a terrible idea
in the longterm. 

1694
01:23:46,850 --> 01:23:47,730
Actually, it works out really 
well. 

1695
01:23:47,730 --> 01:23:50,730
But getting over that hump of 
that longterm might cause a lot 

1696
01:23:50,730 --> 01:23:53,570
of suffering until the man who's
come in with their big amount of

1697
01:23:53,570 --> 01:23:56,740
extra cash, like, oh, now all of
a sudden we do have that option.

1698
01:23:56,740 --> 01:23:59,980
And that was just credit to. 
I forget which Stark it was. 

1699
01:23:59,980 --> 01:24:03,100
It was like, maybe now we can 
build that city because these 

1700
01:24:03,100 --> 01:24:05,020
guys are coming in with all this
cash. 

1701
01:24:05,820 --> 01:24:07,740
Let's do it. 
Yeah. 

1702
01:24:07,740 --> 01:24:10,620
So. 
Which also gives us a lesson 

1703
01:24:10,620 --> 01:24:14,660
about the relative wealth of 
these different places and how 

1704
01:24:14,660 --> 01:24:17,100
wealth can only go so far when 
it comes to military power. 

1705
01:24:17,660 --> 01:24:20,300
It can help it, but it also 
can't overcome it sometimes. 

1706
01:24:20,300 --> 01:24:23,340
Like the Mandarins would never 
have been able to defeat the 

1707
01:24:23,340 --> 01:24:26,460
Starks, not in a million years, 
but they might have been able to

1708
01:24:26,460 --> 01:24:29,900
outspend them. 
Of course they were spending for

1709
01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:32,300
them instead of against them 
because they wanted to come live

1710
01:24:32,300 --> 01:24:35,060
in their land. 
But hey, same difference in 

1711
01:24:35,060 --> 01:24:37,940
terms of possibilities. 
Let's talk about who I think. 

1712
01:24:37,940 --> 01:24:40,420
At the go ahead, sorry it's a 
little bit of a tangent, but 

1713
01:24:40,420 --> 01:24:44,500
just think about the nature of 
how resources would get used, 

1714
01:24:44,820 --> 01:24:47,620
saved, accumulated, invested or 
whatever In the north and the 

1715
01:24:47,620 --> 01:24:50,260
reach for example. 
So in the north, they would 

1716
01:24:50,260 --> 01:24:53,700
constantly spend a lot of effort
chopping down trees. 

1717
01:24:54,610 --> 01:24:58,610
And then burning that wood just 
to stay warm in the South there 

1718
01:24:58,610 --> 01:25:01,850
was been a lot of effort 
planting orchards and in 

1719
01:25:01,850 --> 01:25:05,810
harvesting apples and Peaches to
trade to the north for wood or 

1720
01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:07,930
eat to stay on and on. 
Does that make sense? 

1721
01:25:07,930 --> 01:25:11,450
Like the North just messed 
incinerate their work to to not 

1722
01:25:11,450 --> 01:25:15,380
die in a winter where the South.
Barely faces a winner and the 

1723
01:25:15,380 --> 01:25:18,020
instead of incinerating their 
wealth, they have enough food 

1724
01:25:18,020 --> 01:25:19,620
already and they trade it for 
more wealth. 

1725
01:25:19,620 --> 01:25:23,180
And so they built cities and on 
and on they have that they can 

1726
01:25:23,180 --> 01:25:25,180
make the initial investment. 
They've got enough money in the 

1727
01:25:25,180 --> 01:25:27,260
bank for that. 
Yeah, like the Lannisters have. 

1728
01:25:27,260 --> 01:25:30,980
That's why they have Landis Port
and the reach has Old Town and 

1729
01:25:30,980 --> 01:25:34,500
the Vale has Gull Town. 
Like these places all have a 

1730
01:25:34,500 --> 01:25:37,660
city that represents where they 
were able to make that 

1731
01:25:37,660 --> 01:25:39,780
investment. 
The closest in the north prior 

1732
01:25:39,780 --> 01:25:42,770
to White Harbor was I guess 
Barrowton, which is a 

1733
01:25:42,770 --> 01:25:46,130
substantial large town, but not 
not large enough to be a city. 

1734
01:25:48,130 --> 01:25:51,330
Let's talk about who Agon had on
his side, Team Agon we'll call 

1735
01:25:51,330 --> 01:25:53,370
it. 
Obviously Visenia and Reinis are

1736
01:25:53,370 --> 01:25:56,330
well known and we'll expand on 
the on those two later as well 

1737
01:25:56,330 --> 01:26:00,130
as on Agon. 
They're important full dive, 

1738
01:26:00,130 --> 01:26:03,210
deep dive topics, but they 
obviously didn't do it alone. 

1739
01:26:03,210 --> 01:26:05,370
Those 3. 
Apart from Oris Baratheon, who 

1740
01:26:05,370 --> 01:26:07,530
we discussed last time a bit, 
and we'll have more to say about

1741
01:26:07,530 --> 01:26:10,130
him, let's consider who else 
they had, the ones who were 

1742
01:26:10,130 --> 01:26:11,590
there with him from the 
beginning. 

1743
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:13,510
Some of these names you've heard
before. 

1744
01:26:13,510 --> 01:26:15,630
Because we've talked about these
houses, we focused on them 

1745
01:26:15,630 --> 01:26:19,670
individually. 
And of course their position 

1746
01:26:19,670 --> 01:26:23,950
within Aegon's conquest and his 
reign thereafter was important 

1747
01:26:23,950 --> 01:26:25,470
when we're focusing on those 
houses. 

1748
01:26:25,550 --> 01:26:31,230
For example, House Belarion Lord
Damon was his first Admiral. 

1749
01:26:32,030 --> 01:26:35,950
Became his master of ships. 
Once the, you know, once these 

1750
01:26:35,950 --> 01:26:40,500
things got settled, his sons, 
Lord Damon, Sons, Ethan would be

1751
01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:45,580
the next Master of ships. 
And Lord of Drift, Mark and 

1752
01:26:45,580 --> 01:26:49,540
Corlise would be the first Lord 
Commander of the King's Guard. 

1753
01:26:49,940 --> 01:26:52,820
Which doesn't come along for a 
little while yet, but still 

1754
01:26:52,820 --> 01:26:56,020
these guys, before they had 
these roles. 

1755
01:26:56,020 --> 01:27:00,060
Before Ethan was the Master of 
ships in place of his father, 

1756
01:27:00,060 --> 01:27:02,060
and before Corlise became Lord 
Commander of the King's Guard. 

1757
01:27:02,500 --> 01:27:04,140
Well, these guys weren't babies 
then. 

1758
01:27:04,420 --> 01:27:05,700
We're only talking about 10 
years later. 

1759
01:27:05,700 --> 01:27:07,420
This guy didn't become Lord 
Commander of the King's Guard 

1760
01:27:07,420 --> 01:27:09,710
when he was 20. 
Probably. 

1761
01:27:09,790 --> 01:27:11,190
So. 
I mean, it's possible, but 

1762
01:27:11,190 --> 01:27:12,470
probably. 
My point is probably. 

1763
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:16,510
These guys participated in the 
early wars at Aegon side as 

1764
01:27:16,510 --> 01:27:19,910
warriors and commanders before 
they got these later, more fancy

1765
01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:22,230
titles when things were more 
established. 

1766
01:27:22,230 --> 01:27:25,430
You talk about the Seltagars or 
Celtagars, if you prefer. 

1767
01:27:25,630 --> 01:27:30,110
Lord Crispian or Kurt, I don't 
know. 

1768
01:27:30,110 --> 01:27:31,790
You can't do that one with this.
Hard to see, can you? 

1769
01:27:32,350 --> 01:27:33,830
Crispian. 
Yeah, Sirspian. 

1770
01:27:34,390 --> 01:27:36,790
Soon he was the Master of Coin 
or Master of Soyin. 

1771
01:27:36,870 --> 01:27:43,090
And if you prefer, he would have
already been funding weaponry, 

1772
01:27:43,090 --> 01:27:45,770
ships, supplies, probably. 
I don't know if he would have 

1773
01:27:45,770 --> 01:27:50,130
been in the battles, but maybe 
Quentin Coheris. 

1774
01:27:50,450 --> 01:27:53,050
He probably fought because he 
was the Dragonstone master at 

1775
01:27:53,050 --> 01:27:54,370
Arms. 
That guy was a warrior. 

1776
01:27:54,370 --> 01:27:58,770
He's the one who taught Agon and
Auris and Vasenia because 

1777
01:27:58,770 --> 01:28:01,290
Vasenia's certainly very capable
with dark sister. 

1778
01:28:01,670 --> 01:28:03,790
So when we say those people 
trained together, especially 

1779
01:28:03,790 --> 01:28:06,350
Agon and Auris, they they 
learned to sword fight together.

1780
01:28:06,670 --> 01:28:10,270
This was the guy teaching them. 
So he almost certainly marched 

1781
01:28:10,270 --> 01:28:12,270
with them. 
Unless he was ancient by the 

1782
01:28:12,270 --> 01:28:14,470
time, which is possible, but 
probably not. 

1783
01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:18,110
He was probably appointed to 
this position of master at arms 

1784
01:28:18,430 --> 01:28:23,030
by their father Lord Aryan. 
And if he's older than we we 

1785
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:27,150
think then he might have been 
appointed by Lord Aryan's father

1786
01:28:27,150 --> 01:28:30,400
Damien. 
So this this Co Harry's guy, 

1787
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,160
Quentin would have been around 
for at least one prior Lord, if 

1788
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:40,800
not more, and thus he would have
had a lot of authority, social 

1789
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:44,040
authority over Agon and Ory's, 
even though they clearly are way

1790
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:46,160
above him in rank. 
Just the fact that he had a 

1791
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:50,360
teaching position over them was 
able to tell them what to do. 

1792
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:52,320
It's kind of a different kind of
relationship. 

1793
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:54,160
Most of these nobles, no one 
tells them what to do. 

1794
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:56,760
But you have an instructor that 
you're supposed to listen to, 

1795
01:28:57,360 --> 01:28:59,880
kind of a different sort of 
pseudo version of of that, 

1796
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,760
where, yes, you're ultimately in
charge of this guy giving you 

1797
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:06,040
orders, but you got to listen to
him to learn the things he's 

1798
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,840
teaching you. 
So it's kind of a there's a 

1799
01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:10,960
little more of a personal 
relationship involved there and 

1800
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:12,720
a little more back and forth. 
It's kind of an interesting 

1801
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:17,480
thing there. 
And in relevant to his age, 

1802
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:21,760
Quentin at this point had two 
sons and one grandson, so that's

1803
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:25,800
why he might have been older. 
The sons almost certainly fought

1804
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:27,870
in the war as well. 
The grandson's. 

1805
01:29:28,630 --> 01:29:30,310
The grandson probably didn't, 
though. 

1806
01:29:30,310 --> 01:29:31,550
Maybe he did. 
Maybe he was old enough. 

1807
01:29:31,870 --> 01:29:33,830
The grandson's the one who's 
going to inherit Herrenhall 

1808
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:36,470
later. 
So it's possible the two sons 

1809
01:29:37,350 --> 01:29:41,710
die during these wars. 
Or maybe one of them does and 

1810
01:29:41,710 --> 01:29:44,670
then the other dies later before
they can inherit Herrenhall 

1811
01:29:44,670 --> 01:29:48,070
before the Quentin dies. 
Anyway, a lot of possibilities 

1812
01:29:48,070 --> 01:29:51,310
there. 
It's Lord Tristan Massey who 

1813
01:29:51,310 --> 01:29:55,190
comes over from Stone Dance and 
Lord Barr Emmon of Sharp Point. 

1814
01:29:56,440 --> 01:29:58,480
So yeah, we can assume pretty 
much all these guys were 

1815
01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:01,440
involved in the conquest in 
various ways whether swords in 

1816
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:06,120
hand or coins being spent and 
then afterwards towards these 

1817
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:08,480
building projects. 
For example, the Agon Fort we 

1818
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:13,600
talked about the large earthen 
wood palisade built around 

1819
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,680
Agon's High Hill. 
What it would that's what it 

1820
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:17,880
eventually became to be known as
we don't know what it was called

1821
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:22,120
at this point and a lot of that 
would have been paid for by 

1822
01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:26,770
Celtic are and valerian and the 
manpower used to build it. 

1823
01:30:27,170 --> 01:30:29,450
Same deal would have been a lot 
of their people doing it. 

1824
01:30:29,450 --> 01:30:32,090
Not just aegons a lot of been 
his vassals. 

1825
01:30:33,130 --> 01:30:38,490
So it's it's mentioned that his 
sisters were sent out to get the

1826
01:30:38,490 --> 01:30:40,170
submissions of some of the local
Lords. 

1827
01:30:40,170 --> 01:30:43,050
And this is almost an automatic.
They're going to show up with a 

1828
01:30:43,050 --> 01:30:46,410
big dragon and the ability to 
bring more men to the field. 

1829
01:30:46,410 --> 01:30:49,630
And these are small petty Lords 
that we don't really have the 

1830
01:30:49,630 --> 01:30:51,350
ability to stand up. 
These are the ones that would 

1831
01:30:51,350 --> 01:30:53,630
have bent the knee right away 
had the letters been addressed 

1832
01:30:53,630 --> 01:30:55,150
to them. 
But no, the letter just went to 

1833
01:30:55,150 --> 01:30:58,630
the seven kings, slash Princess,
queen, etcetera. 

1834
01:30:59,150 --> 01:31:01,430
Not these lesser Lords, but they
would have known about it. 

1835
01:31:01,430 --> 01:31:02,550
Of course. 
They would have heard. 

1836
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:04,590
Everyone would have been talking
about it. 

1837
01:31:04,950 --> 01:31:06,790
So they've been like, yeah, when
he comes, we'll bend the knee. 

1838
01:31:06,790 --> 01:31:09,310
We're not going to fight that. 
I mean, come on, get get serious

1839
01:31:09,310 --> 01:31:11,310
here. 
We've got 300 men, You know, 

1840
01:31:11,310 --> 01:31:14,110
what are we going to do? 
Like, Aegon doesn't have a lot 

1841
01:31:14,110 --> 01:31:16,790
for a conquest, but he's got 
more than we do and he's got the

1842
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:18,530
Dragons, so we're bending the 
knee. 

1843
01:31:18,530 --> 01:31:20,490
So who is that? 
Eggon. 

1844
01:31:20,650 --> 01:31:24,010
Eggon wanting to take conquest 
against the whole continent is 

1845
01:31:24,010 --> 01:31:26,010
one thing. 
Eggon want to take conquest 

1846
01:31:26,010 --> 01:31:28,490
against a village? 
Like, yeah, of course, yeah, 

1847
01:31:29,010 --> 01:31:30,650
That part's easy. 
They're like, yeah, you got it. 

1848
01:31:31,010 --> 01:31:34,170
That's one of those examples 
where whoever rides in and says 

1849
01:31:34,170 --> 01:31:36,930
I'm in charge now, they're going
to be like, okay, we're not 

1850
01:31:37,090 --> 01:31:40,130
going to stop you. 
You're in charge now. 

1851
01:31:40,130 --> 01:31:43,370
You you said so and we can't 
tell you otherwise. 

1852
01:31:44,330 --> 01:31:47,210
So yeah, there would have been a
a lot of smaller perhaps unnamed

1853
01:31:47,210 --> 01:31:49,570
lesser lordlings around here. 
Some that we know a little 

1854
01:31:49,570 --> 01:31:50,890
better. 
Like we know Vicenia went to 

1855
01:31:50,890 --> 01:31:53,690
crack claw point. 
They still consider themselves 

1856
01:31:53,690 --> 01:31:57,210
quote good dragon man Dick Crabs
said that exact thing. 

1857
01:31:57,210 --> 01:31:59,370
We'll come back to this a little
later because this might have 

1858
01:31:59,370 --> 01:32:01,730
come a little bit later. 
I'm not sure when Crack Claw 

1859
01:32:01,770 --> 01:32:04,250
Point submitted. 
There's not a lot of manpower 

1860
01:32:04,250 --> 01:32:05,250
there. 
It wouldn't have been high on 

1861
01:32:05,250 --> 01:32:08,610
the list and it's a little 
farther N so it's not that near 

1862
01:32:08,610 --> 01:32:11,570
to the black water, but at some 
point that happened. 

1863
01:32:12,410 --> 01:32:14,490
We're not exactly told which 
ones bend the knee immediately, 

1864
01:32:14,490 --> 01:32:20,010
except for a couple of examples 
for which includes Rosby. 

1865
01:32:20,770 --> 01:32:22,730
Rainey went there. 
There was no resistance. 

1866
01:32:22,730 --> 01:32:25,090
Rosby just bent the knee. 
Visenya went to Stokeworth. 

1867
01:32:26,090 --> 01:32:27,970
Nominal resistance at 
Stokeworth. 

1868
01:32:28,250 --> 01:32:30,210
They fired a few crossbow bolts 
at her. 

1869
01:32:30,290 --> 01:32:32,290
She burned their roof. 
They surrendered. 

1870
01:32:32,850 --> 01:32:34,690
She was probably knew it would 
only take a little bit. 

1871
01:32:34,690 --> 01:32:36,050
Like all they're firing is a few
cross. 

1872
01:32:36,050 --> 01:32:38,810
This is a very half hearted 
defense here. 

1873
01:32:39,810 --> 01:32:40,890
I think they're ready to 
surrender. 

1874
01:32:40,890 --> 01:32:42,970
I'm just gonna show them a 
little bit of what we're capable

1875
01:32:42,970 --> 01:32:44,410
of. 
One blast from beggar. 

1876
01:32:44,410 --> 01:32:46,010
They're like, okay, that's 
enough. 

1877
01:32:46,170 --> 01:32:48,250
We're done. 
We fought you though. 

1878
01:32:48,250 --> 01:32:51,450
We can say we tried to resist. 
A little bit of bravery, but 

1879
01:32:51,450 --> 01:32:53,690
that's it. 
I was gonna say that might be a 

1880
01:32:53,690 --> 01:32:56,050
similar scenario to what we were
talking about earlier, maybe on 

1881
01:32:56,050 --> 01:32:59,330
a bigger scale, but maybe the 
Lords and leaders here know they

1882
01:32:59,330 --> 01:33:02,070
need to at least. 
Show some effort to whether it's

1883
01:33:02,070 --> 01:33:05,790
to make their people feel better
about their identity or to make 

1884
01:33:05,790 --> 01:33:08,150
their Liege Lord and not want 
revenge. 

1885
01:33:08,150 --> 01:33:12,910
Later when the Dragon's not 
around whatever it is, I can and

1886
01:33:12,910 --> 01:33:16,550
I could see agon vissignia, 
whoever like understanding and 

1887
01:33:16,550 --> 01:33:18,190
respecting that too. 
I think it was probably a 

1888
01:33:18,190 --> 01:33:21,390
discussed part of the plan. 
I think that they as we said 

1889
01:33:21,390 --> 01:33:25,310
earlier, I think the agon. 
Probably did have a little more 

1890
01:33:25,310 --> 01:33:28,790
more foresight into how this is 
going to play all the if thens 

1891
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:30,910
of the scenario. 
I bet he did understand the idea

1892
01:33:30,910 --> 01:33:33,150
that we need to let them save 
face. 

1893
01:33:33,190 --> 01:33:35,870
We can't just embarrass. 
Yes, right. 

1894
01:33:35,870 --> 01:33:38,750
Yes, that's very true. 
Because it's absolutely ties. 

1895
01:33:38,750 --> 01:33:40,590
What you said before about them 
looking like cowards, you can't 

1896
01:33:40,590 --> 01:33:44,270
have, you can't embarrass them 
because that's part of what 

1897
01:33:44,270 --> 01:33:45,510
enables them to rule their 
lands. 

1898
01:33:45,510 --> 01:33:50,220
Well, is people believing that 
they will do what they say, 

1899
01:33:50,300 --> 01:33:51,700
people believing that they're 
strong. 

1900
01:33:51,700 --> 01:33:53,300
You don't want to piss off 
someone who's strong. 

1901
01:33:53,540 --> 01:33:57,900
You might risk pissing off 
someone who's weak, yeah. 

1902
01:33:59,060 --> 01:34:02,580
Like not being able to defeat a 
dragon isn't weak immediately. 

1903
01:34:02,580 --> 01:34:05,260
Surrendering to someone's litter
is weak, yes? 

1904
01:34:05,340 --> 01:34:08,620
Right. 
Or let's recall that excellent 

1905
01:34:08,620 --> 01:34:11,460
line from House the Dragon. 
A willing an unwillingness to 

1906
01:34:11,460 --> 01:34:15,020
murder is not weakness, right? 
There's a lot of things that are

1907
01:34:15,020 --> 01:34:18,580
not cowardice that some people 
may call cowardice just because 

1908
01:34:18,580 --> 01:34:23,060
they're trying to use the 
framing of cowardice as a 

1909
01:34:23,060 --> 01:34:24,940
motivator against you. 
No, that's not me. 

1910
01:34:24,980 --> 01:34:28,700
That doesn't make me coward. 
I think there's the iconic Back 

1911
01:34:28,700 --> 01:34:30,780
to the Future through Line and 
all the movies. 

1912
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:33,240
That was Marty Mcfly's fatal 
weakness. 

1913
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:36,920
No one meat. 
Yellow No one calls me coward, 

1914
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,160
no matter what movie it was. 
Chicken. 

1915
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:43,000
That was the thing that just 
every time he shouldn't have 

1916
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:46,000
done something he shouldn't 
have, right. 

1917
01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:48,680
And we use that. 
We talked about that with 

1918
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,080
Victorian and how that's all 
you're on had to do. 

1919
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:54,880
To get Victorian to sail across 
the globe was like, oh, you're 

1920
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:56,740
scared, huh? 
I'm not scared. 

1921
01:34:57,020 --> 01:34:59,100
I'll sail anywhere. 
That's that was it. 

1922
01:34:59,100 --> 01:35:00,860
He wasn't going to do it. 
He's like, I don't want to do 

1923
01:35:00,860 --> 01:35:02,140
that. 
That's just like a lot of work. 

1924
01:35:02,140 --> 01:35:03,500
What's the point? 
He's like, oh, you're scared. 

1925
01:35:03,500 --> 01:35:04,860
He's like, oh, I'll do it. 
That's all. 

1926
01:35:04,860 --> 01:35:06,860
And it's like the easiest thing 
ever. 

1927
01:35:07,340 --> 01:35:09,220
It's like Jim toying with Dwight
or something. 

1928
01:35:09,300 --> 01:35:11,300
Yeah. 
It's like all you got to do is 

1929
01:35:11,300 --> 01:35:15,680
bring up cowardice and it's like
it's like they're the higher 

1930
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:19,480
thinking shuts off. 
DD toying with Mac. 

1931
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,600
Like, yeah, you probably can't 
even spend the bowling ball. 

1932
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:24,920
I can't. 
Oh, I can spend it, she said. 

1933
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:26,520
I couldn't spin it, though. 
She said it. 

1934
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:29,440
I have to do it. 
I have to prove her wrong. 

1935
01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:32,600
There's no I must. 
She called me out. 

1936
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:34,920
I have to respond. 
That's I have to. 

1937
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:38,740
You have no choice. 
So interestingly, we talk about 

1938
01:35:38,740 --> 01:35:41,620
manpower, talk about Aegon's 
little bit of manpower and we 

1939
01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:43,700
look at what Stannis does 
eventually is he gets a hold of 

1940
01:35:43,700 --> 01:35:45,860
some money and he's like, I'm 
hiring mercenaries. 

1941
01:35:45,860 --> 01:35:51,380
I need manpower. 
Aegon had money, didn't hire 

1942
01:35:51,380 --> 01:35:55,620
mercenaries. 
He now there's like I said 

1943
01:35:55,620 --> 01:35:58,340
Shirley could have afforded them
the Celtic cars, the Valorians 

1944
01:35:58,340 --> 01:36:01,620
and the Targaryens combined. 
Surely they have plenty of cash.

1945
01:36:01,820 --> 01:36:06,320
We even hear that that they used
their position in the Narrow sea

1946
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,400
to get wealthy off of passing 
trade, so we know they had 

1947
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:14,280
plenty of cash, but it goes 
against this power, attitude 

1948
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:16,520
projection thing. 
He's like, I don't need help, I 

1949
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:18,800
don't need allies, I don't need 
hired hands. 

1950
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:23,600
Everyone who fights for me 
fights for me because they're 

1951
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,400
loyal to me, because they 
believe in my supremacy, not 

1952
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:29,080
because I paid them. 
So it doesn't really fit with 

1953
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:30,520
that. 
It's kind of looks bad to bring 

1954
01:36:30,520 --> 01:36:34,950
in cell swords. 
It just Westerosi nobility and 

1955
01:36:34,950 --> 01:36:37,230
cultural values. 
Yeah, they don't like cell 

1956
01:36:37,230 --> 01:36:38,630
swords. 
They're kind of they look down 

1957
01:36:38,630 --> 01:36:40,350
on like people don't like 
people. 

1958
01:36:40,350 --> 01:36:41,910
Who they don't. 
Westerosi don't like people who 

1959
01:36:41,910 --> 01:36:43,790
fight for gold, fighting for 
loyalty. 

1960
01:36:43,790 --> 01:36:45,950
That's a virtue. 
Now obviously we can quibble 

1961
01:36:45,950 --> 01:36:47,950
with that, but that's not the 
point. 

1962
01:36:47,950 --> 01:36:50,230
The point of that is how 
Westerosi people tend to think, 

1963
01:36:50,230 --> 01:36:54,670
especially the higher Lords. 
So this would look bad if he 

1964
01:36:54,670 --> 01:36:57,830
used cell swords. 
The cell swords also bring 

1965
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:59,310
other. 
I don't know. 

1966
01:36:59,310 --> 01:37:02,550
Unreliable dynamics in a play. 
What if the cell sorts do start 

1967
01:37:02,550 --> 01:37:05,630
to pillage town that you didn't 
want, or turn against them, or 

1968
01:37:05,790 --> 01:37:07,990
on and on so and even though 
they had enough money to hire 

1969
01:37:07,990 --> 01:37:11,430
them, they're not the richest. 
What if the Gardeners or 

1970
01:37:11,430 --> 01:37:15,310
Lannisters use their greater to 
suborn those units? 

1971
01:37:15,590 --> 01:37:18,270
Not only the Gardeners and what 
and the Lannisters and folks 

1972
01:37:18,270 --> 01:37:20,070
didn't appear to hire 
mercenaries of their own either,

1973
01:37:20,070 --> 01:37:22,390
but that's again because of 
these cultural values most 

1974
01:37:22,390 --> 01:37:23,550
likely. 
So yeah, they didn't get they 

1975
01:37:23,550 --> 01:37:25,230
didn't want to do it. 
The same reason they got doesn't

1976
01:37:25,230 --> 01:37:27,110
want to do it. 
They might have had less ability

1977
01:37:27,110 --> 01:37:29,240
to like they're. 
I don't know. 

1978
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:32,280
They're on the landlocked and or
on the far side of that's like 

1979
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:37,080
what's the timing? 
How is someone reached the veil?

1980
01:37:37,080 --> 01:37:39,000
Could have, or the storm lands 
probably could have from 

1981
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:40,480
overseas. 
They might have had time and 

1982
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:42,880
maybe even the north. 
But you're right, the West and 

1983
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,360
the reach might have been more 
difficult for them to get people

1984
01:37:45,360 --> 01:37:46,760
over there in time for it to 
matter. 

1985
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:49,080
Because this day, yeah, this 
didn't exactly take a long time.

1986
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:52,320
Even though Agon didn't rush to 
the conquest, he had things to 

1987
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:55,680
do first, like build the agon 
for it and get the submission of

1988
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:59,280
nearby Lords and continue to 
equip these new people and get 

1989
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,360
them to fight his way and all 
that. 

1990
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:04,640
These things are slow marching 
from town to town and getting 

1991
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:06,080
everybody together. 
Yeah, there's there is a 

1992
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:09,840
substantial amount of time, but 
we're it's longer to bring 

1993
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:14,200
Mercenaries over from Essos by. 
Substantial amount of time to 

1994
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:18,120
find the sales or negotiate a 
contract, transport them over, 

1995
01:38:18,120 --> 01:38:19,760
get them to your capital or 
whatever. 

1996
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:22,080
And in the meantime, a dragon 
might just go burn them. 

1997
01:38:23,940 --> 01:38:26,860
And a smaller amount of troops 
does have some advantages to it 

1998
01:38:26,860 --> 01:38:29,820
makes you leaner as a force. 
You need fewer supplies, you 

1999
01:38:29,820 --> 01:38:32,940
need fewer commanders, you can 
move quicker. 

2000
01:38:33,220 --> 01:38:37,180
Yeah, you don't have to like get
everyone organ like marching a 

2001
01:38:37,180 --> 01:38:41,300
large force takes like getting 
everybody up at a certain time 

2002
01:38:41,300 --> 01:38:42,860
and then coordinating when 
they're going to leave. 

2003
01:38:42,860 --> 01:38:43,980
You can't all just leave at the 
same time. 

2004
01:38:43,980 --> 01:38:46,300
When there's like 10,000 of you 
like, the road isn't wide 

2005
01:38:46,300 --> 01:38:49,180
enough, so you have to 
coordinate that and arrange for 

2006
01:38:49,180 --> 01:38:50,380
that okay. 
This group goes first. 

2007
01:38:50,380 --> 01:38:52,060
This group goes second. 
This group goes third. 

2008
01:38:52,700 --> 01:38:54,980
The wagons have to be carried. 
Yeah, there's a lot, there's a 

2009
01:38:55,020 --> 01:38:57,340
lot to it especially. 
I mean, let's keep in mind, 

2010
01:38:57,340 --> 01:39:00,220
folks, no Kings Rd. no paved 
roads, hardly at all around 

2011
01:39:00,220 --> 01:39:01,300
here. 
So these there's marching 

2012
01:39:01,300 --> 01:39:04,660
through beaten paths. 
And that does make troop 

2013
01:39:04,660 --> 01:39:09,620
movements a little bit harder. 
So again, smaller amount of 

2014
01:39:09,620 --> 01:39:12,260
troops helps dodge some of these
logistical problems. 

2015
01:39:13,060 --> 01:39:16,460
It's easy to forget alongside 
those roads, that there's none 

2016
01:39:16,460 --> 01:39:19,580
of the later institutions and 
power structures that will 

2017
01:39:19,580 --> 01:39:22,000
eventually be around will be 
there. 

2018
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:25,640
Obviously no King's Landing, not
even the start of a city at this

2019
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:27,320
point. 
Perhaps some hubbles and fishing

2020
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:33,640
villages, Maybe Aegon's Timber 
and Earth fortress was just 

2021
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:34,560
that. 
It wasn't a city yet. 

2022
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:36,360
It wasn't the start of a city, 
it was just a fortress. 

2023
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:42,240
It eventually becomes the Red 
Keep, but that area was low 

2024
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:47,860
population, so this is a portion
of the mainland was not tightly 

2025
01:39:47,860 --> 01:39:50,420
held, this entire area, even 
though it had been claimed by 

2026
01:39:50,420 --> 01:39:53,660
Heron and Argyllac and some of 
their descent ancestors. 

2027
01:39:54,820 --> 01:39:59,140
But if they waited, that might 
change, like Heron might start 

2028
01:39:59,140 --> 01:40:02,740
to exert his authority more 
directly over this area. 

2029
01:40:04,140 --> 01:40:07,380
So there were some independent 
sources of manpower the 

2030
01:40:07,380 --> 01:40:09,820
Targaryens wanted to claim 
before it was too late, like if 

2031
01:40:10,740 --> 01:40:14,100
those nearby Dunscandale or 
Rosby had been taken over by 

2032
01:40:14,300 --> 01:40:16,620
Black Heron. 
Well, that's just another 

2033
01:40:16,620 --> 01:40:18,620
obstacle for them that's very 
close to where they're 

2034
01:40:18,620 --> 01:40:21,540
establishing their base. 
So even beyond the timing of 

2035
01:40:23,540 --> 01:40:26,780
making stealing a heron's 
Thunder by landing the same day 

2036
01:40:26,780 --> 01:40:29,780
he finishes his castle, there 
are other considerations as well

2037
01:40:30,540 --> 01:40:33,060
in terms of where Heron would go
next. 

2038
01:40:33,380 --> 01:40:34,300
Okay. 
He finished his castle. 

2039
01:40:34,300 --> 01:40:35,540
What's he going to do after 
that? 

2040
01:40:35,540 --> 01:40:37,740
Probably expand his territory, 
Okay. 

2041
01:40:37,740 --> 01:40:42,420
So it's multiple reasons to stop
him before he gets any farther, 

2042
01:40:42,420 --> 01:40:44,520
because those soldiers become 
his. 

2043
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:47,240
If he takes those places, and if
you get them first, those are 

2044
01:40:47,240 --> 01:40:50,360
your soldiers. 
So that's a double, double 

2045
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:51,960
whammy. 
Like you don't have to face 

2046
01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:53,240
those troops. 
They're fighting for you. 

2047
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:55,000
And it's not just the. 
Troops win. 

2048
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:56,800
Win money. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 

2049
01:40:56,800 --> 01:41:01,280
So it's pretty smart. 
Let's talk about the Aegon Fort 

2050
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:05,280
again. 
Here's a map shot that shows us 

2051
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:09,080
the three major hills nicely 
aligned with the three heads of 

2052
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:11,560
the dragon. 
How convenient. 

2053
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:16,280
Rainy's Hill, Venus Hill, Agons 
High Hill, and you can see the 

2054
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:18,040
eventual If you're looking at 
the map, you can see eventually 

2055
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:19,680
where King's Landing was 
developed. 

2056
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,320
You can see how it formed, the 
walls, which of course weren't 

2057
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:24,920
there at this point, but these 
these denominations, these 

2058
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:27,760
markers might have been there, 
like proto structures would have

2059
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:31,480
been built atop the senias and 
Rainys Hill would have been 

2060
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:35,000
watchtowers, smaller fortresses,
things like that. 

2061
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:38,880
And the fishing villages would 
have started to been like, hey, 

2062
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:40,400
let's look to them for 
protection. 

2063
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:45,000
We'll definitely swear fealty to
these people. 

2064
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:47,320
They've got Dragons, they're 
building stuff. 

2065
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:50,200
This looks good to us. 
They're not enslaving people 

2066
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:54,600
like Heron. 
So pardon me by if they're 

2067
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:58,600
choosing between the people that
have claimed the territory and 

2068
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:02,330
the people who are actually 
present doing so, it's a pretty 

2069
01:42:02,330 --> 01:42:05,050
much a nobrainer. 
Like you'd obviously rather 

2070
01:42:05,050 --> 01:42:09,210
follow the Targaryens I think 
than Heron, that's easy. 

2071
01:42:09,210 --> 01:42:13,050
Now Argalac is different because
he's the follower of the seven. 

2072
01:42:14,130 --> 01:42:17,490
But still I think you'd rather 
follow egg on because he just 

2073
01:42:17,490 --> 01:42:24,130
seems more capable and Argalac 
is his Kingdom has been pushed 

2074
01:42:24,130 --> 01:42:28,610
back for a while. 
So by from reputation, yes, 

2075
01:42:28,610 --> 01:42:31,950
Argalac is dangerous and 
powerful, but his Kingdom has 

2076
01:42:31,950 --> 01:42:36,350
been shrinking, so he might seem
for his agons the the one on the

2077
01:42:36,350 --> 01:42:37,750
rise. 
He might seem like the better 

2078
01:42:37,750 --> 01:42:41,830
alternative in terms of going 
forward, in addition to maybe 

2079
01:42:41,830 --> 01:42:43,830
seeming more powerful even with 
fewer troops. 

2080
01:42:45,630 --> 01:42:51,270
Also, you know if it's close. 
Even if it's not close, the 

2081
01:42:51,270 --> 01:42:53,950
person standing in front of you 
is the one you're more likely to

2082
01:42:54,230 --> 01:42:58,690
follow, right? 
Whether they have 30,000 troops 

2083
01:42:58,690 --> 01:43:01,050
or 3000 troops, when they're 
standing in front of you with 

2084
01:43:01,050 --> 01:43:04,050
3000 troops like okay okay, what
do what do you want us to do 

2085
01:43:04,050 --> 01:43:07,210
now? 
Yeah, so nowadays the top of 

2086
01:43:07,210 --> 01:43:09,730
those hills is the Red Keith, 
the Great Sept of Baylor, and 

2087
01:43:09,730 --> 01:43:11,290
the ruins of the dragon pit. 
It. 

2088
01:43:11,330 --> 01:43:14,330
For a while it had the actual 
dragon pit, but you kind of 

2089
01:43:14,330 --> 01:43:16,810
wonder what was there first. 
It's interesting to think about 

2090
01:43:16,810 --> 01:43:18,890
how like, let's frame it this 
way. 

2091
01:43:19,730 --> 01:43:23,010
Imagine King Agon with his 
enormous dragon, his ancient 

2092
01:43:23,010 --> 01:43:25,770
Valyrian heraldry. 
He's knelt to receive this. 

2093
01:43:25,770 --> 01:43:27,050
He's already been crowned, by 
the way. 

2094
01:43:27,050 --> 01:43:30,810
This is before the crowning at 
the Starry Sept. 

2095
01:43:30,810 --> 01:43:32,890
Of course, that's the one that 
everyone remembers and the one 

2096
01:43:32,890 --> 01:43:36,850
that Agon dates his reign for. 
But he was crowned as soon as he

2097
01:43:36,850 --> 01:43:40,210
landed by Vesenia that this 
Valyrian steel circlet that he 

2098
01:43:40,210 --> 01:43:44,670
wears, the one that's worn by 
many kings after him, is placed 

2099
01:43:44,670 --> 01:43:48,110
on his head at this point. 
Soon as he basically soon as he 

2100
01:43:48,110 --> 01:43:51,550
makes landfall, which I believe 
is a parallel to William the 

2101
01:43:51,550 --> 01:43:56,270
Conqueror. 
But think about this, this is 

2102
01:43:56,270 --> 01:43:59,470
neat. 
Like all the Dragons, his 

2103
01:43:59,470 --> 01:44:02,830
sisters, the heraldry, the sword
barely matched anywhere in the 

2104
01:44:02,830 --> 01:44:05,350
world. 
Black fire and all. 

2105
01:44:05,350 --> 01:44:07,990
This is happening in a log Fort 
around a hill. 

2106
01:44:09,310 --> 01:44:11,590
It's not quite as fancy as it 
will be later. 

2107
01:44:11,590 --> 01:44:14,390
It's like all this really 
powerful heraldry, ancient stuff

2108
01:44:15,310 --> 01:44:17,870
in a log cabin. 
It's not a cabin, but you know, 

2109
01:44:17,870 --> 01:44:22,110
it's funny, it's, it makes the 
example stand out a little more 

2110
01:44:22,110 --> 01:44:24,750
if I call it a cabin, and at 
some point it probably was just 

2111
01:44:24,750 --> 01:44:26,030
a little cabin before it 
expanded. 

2112
01:44:26,710 --> 01:44:28,790
Call it a love shack. 
The love shack. 

2113
01:44:29,110 --> 01:44:34,070
A three-way love. 
Shack, yes, you know that is 

2114
01:44:34,310 --> 01:44:36,150
interesting to point out that it
has create. 

2115
01:44:36,790 --> 01:44:39,270
Look at some imagery you might 
not expect, right? 

2116
01:44:39,270 --> 01:44:41,510
Like, I don't think anyone's 
made that art yet, right? 

2117
01:44:42,070 --> 01:44:43,630
Oh. 
Yes, you would be. 

2118
01:44:44,670 --> 01:44:49,510
Anyone listening is a here's a 
call but but it is it's neat to 

2119
01:44:49,510 --> 01:44:53,430
think about how many you know 
great kingdoms started with 

2120
01:44:53,430 --> 01:44:56,190
humble beginnings. 
You know like Genghis Khan 

2121
01:44:56,190 --> 01:45:00,190
wasn't in some castle right. 
It was literally, yeah. 

2122
01:45:00,430 --> 01:45:04,430
And you know, even the. 
You know, I don't know the 

2123
01:45:04,430 --> 01:45:06,830
stories of like, you know, I 
don't know George Washington or 

2124
01:45:07,070 --> 01:45:10,870
Abe Lincoln born in log cabins 
and and the riding of the 

2125
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:12,350
Constitution, You know, they're 
they. 

2126
01:45:13,110 --> 01:45:14,950
It was hot when they were right 
in the Constitution. 

2127
01:45:14,950 --> 01:45:18,030
It was so hot outside. 
They wanted to open new Windows,

2128
01:45:18,030 --> 01:45:19,790
but they didn't. 
They kept the windows closed 

2129
01:45:19,790 --> 01:45:21,950
because there was so much horse 
manure outside. 

2130
01:45:22,150 --> 01:45:24,870
It smelled so bad. 
They kept the windows closed and

2131
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:26,710
just dealt with the heat. 
And in the meantime, they're 

2132
01:45:26,710 --> 01:45:29,070
riding the Constitution of the 
United States of America. 

2133
01:45:29,230 --> 01:45:31,190
That's like the conditions they 
were in, they were in some. 

2134
01:45:31,830 --> 01:45:33,390
Fancy Castle. 
It's probably like you get to be

2135
01:45:33,390 --> 01:45:36,710
careful that their sweat doesn't
drip on to the parchment. 

2136
01:45:36,710 --> 01:45:38,310
Yeah, it wasn't. 
It was that some of the original

2137
01:45:38,310 --> 01:45:40,270
wording was lost because of 
sweat droplets. 

2138
01:45:40,270 --> 01:45:42,310
It's like, I don't know, kind of
fill that back. 

2139
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:43,110
And I don't know what they 
wrote. 

2140
01:45:43,110 --> 01:45:46,350
We got to fill that back in. 
Yeah, it's it's neat to think 

2141
01:45:46,350 --> 01:45:48,230
about that. 
And that is what King's Landing 

2142
01:45:48,230 --> 01:45:52,270
becomes until like Jaharis and 
Barth install, like sewage 

2143
01:45:52,270 --> 01:45:55,110
systems and and proper flowing 
water. 

2144
01:45:55,750 --> 01:45:59,550
It is kind of nasty like you're 
describing me. 

2145
01:46:00,440 --> 01:46:03,840
Paris was up till I want to say 
like the sixteen 1700s. 

2146
01:46:03,840 --> 01:46:06,360
It was like unlivable, you know,
like even in the modern time 

2147
01:46:06,360 --> 01:46:10,400
even in like 1970 the the the 
river in Paris you couldn't swim

2148
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:13,920
or drink and it was poisonous. 
The only in the past generation 

2149
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:15,800
as they that started to be dealt
with some. 

2150
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:17,960
And yeah, you got to figure it's
probably similar. 

2151
01:46:17,960 --> 01:46:20,280
The mouth of Blackwater probably
highly polluted is with less 

2152
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:22,320
with industrial waste. 
But there'd be some because they

2153
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,400
would have logging operations 
and mining and stuff and they'd 

2154
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:28,720
be dumping wastewater in there 
Ancient the world could produce 

2155
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:31,800
some pretty severe waste even 
compared to modern times 

2156
01:46:32,480 --> 01:46:34,600
probably because they didn't 
know what some of the 

2157
01:46:34,600 --> 01:46:36,440
consequences were and we still 
don't. 

2158
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:40,320
So they knew even less. 
When you start to have city, 

2159
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:42,640
when you start to have 
populations of scores of 

2160
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:45,560
thousands of people, that's when
human waste starts to matter. 

2161
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:47,080
Yeah. 
And of course, nowadays in 

2162
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:49,120
King's Landing, it's become a 
problem again because it's 

2163
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:50,880
outgrown some of its own sewages
and people. 

2164
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:52,480
There's multiple characters to 
talk about. 

2165
01:46:52,480 --> 01:46:55,950
King's Landing smells like, oh, 
I can smell it before I got 

2166
01:46:55,950 --> 01:46:57,350
there. 
And someone like Davos says 

2167
01:46:57,350 --> 01:47:00,830
every city has a distinct smell 
and King's Landings is the worst

2168
01:47:00,830 --> 01:47:07,150
of the five, you know, by far. 
So the landing was progressing 

2169
01:47:07,150 --> 01:47:10,510
pretty well. 
But meanwhile, what was going on

2170
01:47:10,510 --> 01:47:12,710
elsewhere in the realm? 
We really focused just on this, 

2171
01:47:12,710 --> 01:47:15,270
but there had to be a lot of 
back and forth discussions, a 

2172
01:47:15,270 --> 01:47:18,030
lot of Ravens and horse 
messengers between the Lords and

2173
01:47:18,030 --> 01:47:20,190
ladies in the region as things 
progress like this. 

2174
01:47:20,190 --> 01:47:22,360
A gun guy. 
He's he's built a castle. 

2175
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:26,160
Now he's claimed a few Lords. 
Like he's not doing what he said

2176
01:47:26,160 --> 01:47:27,960
he would do is is someone going 
to stop him? 

2177
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:31,400
Well, again, this was the time 
to maybe gang up on him and do 

2178
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:33,320
something. 
No one did it when he just has a

2179
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:36,040
earthen castle. 
Not even a castle. 

2180
01:47:36,200 --> 01:47:38,280
Still had a dragon sitting 
there. 

2181
01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:41,400
Or three Dragons. 
That's not exactly as simple as 

2182
01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:44,680
I might portray it. 
But again, it's still probably 

2183
01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:47,240
their best chance to stop him. 
And they didn't they didn't do 

2184
01:47:47,240 --> 01:47:48,800
that. 
No one else wanted to be the one

2185
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,730
to well, let them do it. 
Let someone else stop him. 

2186
01:47:52,050 --> 01:47:54,090
Let let our Galac do it. 
Let Heron do it. 

2187
01:47:54,130 --> 01:47:57,490
Let the Westerlands do it. 
Let the yeah, no one wanted to 

2188
01:47:57,490 --> 01:48:00,810
be the first except for maybe a 
few smaller scale people that 

2189
01:48:00,810 --> 01:48:06,650
were really close by and the the
people living in what's now the 

2190
01:48:06,650 --> 01:48:08,610
Crownlands. 
As I said, it wasn't the 

2191
01:48:08,610 --> 01:48:11,490
Crownlands then. 
It quickly did become that they 

2192
01:48:11,490 --> 01:48:12,970
rarely have ever had strong 
leadership. 

2193
01:48:12,970 --> 01:48:17,710
There's a long history of people
being caught in the middle of 

2194
01:48:17,790 --> 01:48:20,430
this region being like the 
neutral zone. 

2195
01:48:20,430 --> 01:48:24,550
That's sort of quibbled over, 
occasionally fought over, and it

2196
01:48:24,550 --> 01:48:28,670
just had a rotating A revolving 
door of leadership. 

2197
01:48:29,150 --> 01:48:30,590
They're probably pretty sick of 
it. 

2198
01:48:30,630 --> 01:48:32,630
They're probably like, yeah, 
this puts us at risk. 

2199
01:48:32,950 --> 01:48:36,270
Anyone can just come in here and
shred us and take our stuff and 

2200
01:48:36,270 --> 01:48:37,390
we'd be nothing we could do 
about it. 

2201
01:48:37,390 --> 01:48:40,790
It'd be nice to have a strong 
leader to tie us all together 

2202
01:48:40,790 --> 01:48:42,550
and protect us. 
Silly question for you. 

2203
01:48:42,550 --> 01:48:44,710
What's that? 
So when some of the Crown lands 

2204
01:48:44,710 --> 01:48:48,050
were. 
Owned by Like Heron where he 

2205
01:48:48,050 --> 01:48:54,090
called them the Drown land. 
When the time when the I guess 

2206
01:48:54,090 --> 01:48:57,110
it would have been. 
Gardeners had some of the Crown 

2207
01:48:57,110 --> 01:48:59,910
lands. 
Was it the grown land they have 

2208
01:48:59,950 --> 01:49:02,310
the groaning. 
At this joke had the Crown 

2209
01:49:02,350 --> 01:49:05,150
lands. 
Anyway, that's turning into the 

2210
01:49:05,150 --> 01:49:06,870
Frown lands. 
Yeah, it took. 

2211
01:49:06,870 --> 01:49:08,830
All the Actually, it was. 
I was able. 

2212
01:49:08,830 --> 01:49:12,990
Frown lands like they probably 
were frowning anyway, and when 

2213
01:49:12,990 --> 01:49:15,670
all the human waste piles up, 
it's the brown land. 

2214
01:49:15,670 --> 01:49:19,150
The brown land. 
That's hilarious. 

2215
01:49:19,150 --> 01:49:20,630
I like that one best of all, I 
think. 

2216
01:49:20,630 --> 01:49:25,190
Actually nice. 
Any other ideas folks? 

2217
01:49:25,190 --> 01:49:27,110
What other rhymes can we fit in 
there? 

2218
01:49:28,190 --> 01:49:30,110
If they had enough court 
gestures. 

2219
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:32,750
Oh, the Meowlands, I was 
thinking, if there were enough 

2220
01:49:32,750 --> 01:49:34,190
court gestures, it could be the 
clown. 

2221
01:49:34,190 --> 01:49:36,790
Clown. 
Nice. 

2222
01:49:37,670 --> 01:49:39,190
The clown. 
God, I've, I've. 

2223
01:49:39,310 --> 01:49:40,750
I accidentally said that once. 
The clown. 

2224
01:49:40,830 --> 01:49:44,990
Yeah, you did. 
Now we believe that's what Patch

2225
01:49:44,990 --> 01:49:46,950
Face actually worships the Clown
God. 

2226
01:49:47,590 --> 01:49:49,830
That's why it's so creepy. 
Because clowns are creepy, man. 

2227
01:49:49,830 --> 01:49:53,360
Yeah, I would rather live in the
Crown lands than the clown lands

2228
01:49:53,360 --> 01:49:55,480
for sure. 
Yikes. 

2229
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:57,240
I would rather live in the clown
lands. 

2230
01:49:57,240 --> 01:49:59,640
Really, I don't. 
Have the same aversion to 

2231
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:01,600
clowns, but I think a lot of 
people do. 

2232
01:50:02,240 --> 01:50:06,360
To me, they are a funny gesture.
I like clowns. 

2233
01:50:06,360 --> 01:50:11,120
Clowns are fun. 
Clowns are funny, as Homer would

2234
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:16,720
say. 
So the fact that the people have

2235
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:19,440
had a hard time in this area, 
and then it's never had 

2236
01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:21,680
stability, or has rarely had 
stability or hasn't had 

2237
01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:25,360
stability for long periods of 
time is why this next quote is 

2238
01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:31,160
actually believable and maybe 
not just a rewriting of history 

2239
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:33,720
to make Agon seem a little 
better. 

2240
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:36,600
You know, history written by the
winners kind of situation here. 

2241
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:41,360
Judge for yourself quote. 
Heraldick banners have long been

2242
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:43,640
a tradition amongst the Lords of
Westeros. 

2243
01:50:44,060 --> 01:50:47,700
But such had never been used by 
the Dragon Lords of old Valyria.

2244
01:50:48,220 --> 01:50:52,460
When Aegon's Knights unfurled 
his great silken battle standard

2245
01:50:52,660 --> 01:50:56,420
with a red 3 headed dragon 
breeding fire upon a black 

2246
01:50:56,420 --> 01:51:01,420
field, the Lords took it for a 
sign that he was now truly one 

2247
01:51:01,420 --> 01:51:06,300
of them, a worthy high King for 
Westeros when Queen Vasenia 

2248
01:51:06,300 --> 01:51:10,020
placed a Valyrian steel circlet 
studded with rubies on her 

2249
01:51:10,020 --> 01:51:13,060
brother's head and Queen 
Rainey's hailed him as. 

2250
01:51:13,480 --> 01:51:17,440
Aegon, first of his name, king 
of all Westeros, and shield of 

2251
01:51:17,440 --> 01:51:21,760
his people, the Dragons roared 
and the Lords and Knights sent 

2252
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:24,240
up a cheer. 
But the small folk, the 

2253
01:51:24,240 --> 01:51:28,760
fishermen and field hands and 
good wives, shouted loudest of 

2254
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:30,320
all. 
Yeah, when I first read that 

2255
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:31,720
quote I was like, did they 
really? 

2256
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:34,280
But the more we've delve into 
it, I'm like, yeah, I can maybe 

2257
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:39,040
kind of believe it, that they 
did want a strong leader and 

2258
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:41,560
this looked like it. 
And they were right. 

2259
01:51:42,300 --> 01:51:44,660
So it's not a case of yay, 
someone new to boss us around. 

2260
01:51:44,660 --> 01:51:46,500
It's a case of someone looking 
like they may actually be 

2261
01:51:46,500 --> 01:51:49,300
capable of being a good leader, 
something this region lacked. 

2262
01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:52,940
It looked like a reprieve from 
the inevitability of Heron, who 

2263
01:51:52,940 --> 01:51:55,620
had not treated his subjects 
well, to put it mildly, and was 

2264
01:51:55,620 --> 01:51:57,780
probably coming for them. 
They might have been like, oh, 

2265
01:51:57,780 --> 01:52:00,140
how much longer do we have 
before this guy comes into our 

2266
01:52:00,140 --> 01:52:05,140
region and enslaves us and makes
us worship the drown God or cut 

2267
01:52:05,140 --> 01:52:08,180
down wherewoods or whatever he's
going to have us do? 

2268
01:52:09,100 --> 01:52:11,580
And it also looked like Egan was
going to build, was going to 

2269
01:52:11,580 --> 01:52:14,220
create opportunities. 
He was going to build a city or 

2270
01:52:14,220 --> 01:52:17,300
a castle or both. 
And that means infrastructure. 

2271
01:52:17,300 --> 01:52:20,380
That means, in modern terms, 
that's like creating jobs and 

2272
01:52:20,380 --> 01:52:22,420
creating work and creating 
stability. 

2273
01:52:23,380 --> 01:52:26,460
Still, even with that, even with
that point made, it's hard to 

2274
01:52:26,460 --> 01:52:31,040
imagine there weren't plenty of 
doubters, malcontents, and 

2275
01:52:31,040 --> 01:52:34,600
people who were strong 
worshippers of the Seven that 

2276
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:37,680
didn't really see this guy as as
the answer because he was not 

2277
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:40,160
God, even if he was making some 
godly noises. 

2278
01:52:40,160 --> 01:52:45,240
Still, there's some obvious 
violations of cultural 

2279
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:48,320
traditions laid down by the 
Seven, like multiple wives, like

2280
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:52,480
Dragons, like their history, 
being disconnected from all 

2281
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:54,520
that, like they're not and all. 
There might have been some 

2282
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:58,430
racism or prejudice, whatever 
the Westeros equivalent is from 

2283
01:52:58,590 --> 01:53:00,910
the fact that they're not like, 
like us or whatever. 

2284
01:53:03,990 --> 01:53:06,910
Another thought. 
You know, depending on your 

2285
01:53:06,910 --> 01:53:10,830
interpretation that that you 
know that this could all be 

2286
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:14,150
accurate, but it's being 
presented as kind of like we're 

2287
01:53:14,150 --> 01:53:17,590
supposing here, like, oh, this 
hero has come to save us and so 

2288
01:53:17,590 --> 01:53:19,710
we're going to cheer. 
But there could also have been. 

2289
01:53:20,250 --> 01:53:23,170
Beer, they might have thought. 
He's about to burn us all to 

2290
01:53:23,170 --> 01:53:25,890
death of the dragon so that 
other people from some other 

2291
01:53:25,890 --> 01:53:29,010
land can move into our farms. 
Oh no, he wants to be our king. 

2292
01:53:29,010 --> 01:53:29,490
Okay. 
Fine. 

2293
01:53:29,490 --> 01:53:32,090
He's not burning us to Dragons. 
Yay, not bringing us to Dragons.

2294
01:53:32,090 --> 01:53:33,490
You know, that's enough to cheer
for. 

2295
01:53:33,490 --> 01:53:36,170
So yeah, yeah, I agree. 
Yeah, it's. 

2296
01:53:36,290 --> 01:53:39,410
And there's also a possibility, 
if we have to keep in mind, of 

2297
01:53:40,490 --> 01:53:43,410
paid malcontents, that's always 
a possibility whenever you have 

2298
01:53:43,410 --> 01:53:45,370
a crowd, whenever you have a 
riot break out, there's always a

2299
01:53:45,370 --> 01:53:46,850
possibility that someone incited
it. 

2300
01:53:46,850 --> 01:53:47,850
And that may have been 
intentional. 

2301
01:53:47,850 --> 01:53:49,290
It may have not just been 
someone who's really mad. 

2302
01:53:49,330 --> 01:53:53,370
Sometimes riot is incited by a 
person who's genuinely angry. 

2303
01:53:53,730 --> 01:53:58,090
And that flame sort of catches 
and and goes to a lot of places 

2304
01:53:58,090 --> 01:54:02,560
that are unpredictable. 
But sometimes, like the kings 

2305
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:06,160
were landing bread riot, there's
suspicions that someone tried 

2306
01:54:06,160 --> 01:54:09,360
to, you know, maybe add a little
kindling to that or a little 

2307
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,320
spark to that fire and and maybe
get that going. 

2308
01:54:12,760 --> 01:54:15,400
So there's a ripe opportunity 
here for that. 

2309
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:18,200
I don't know if Heron or our 
Galac were the type to do this, 

2310
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:24,440
or maybe Shara, Erin or Princess
Maria or anyone else. 

2311
01:54:24,440 --> 01:54:27,830
And he doesn't have to be one of
the great greater kings, sending

2312
01:54:27,830 --> 01:54:30,830
some agents there to maybe stir 
up the crowds against Agon and 

2313
01:54:30,830 --> 01:54:34,350
be like no, you know, death to 
Dragon Lord. 

2314
01:54:34,350 --> 01:54:37,950
Maybe not quite that blatant. 
But people who would Boo and 

2315
01:54:37,950 --> 01:54:40,110
maybe encourage other people to 
Boo and go around and get the 

2316
01:54:40,110 --> 01:54:43,870
vibe of of like are they happy 
about this or are the people 

2317
01:54:43,870 --> 01:54:46,830
going along with this and then 
go report back to the kings, the

2318
01:54:46,830 --> 01:54:49,110
kings and Lords back in their 
native regions. 

2319
01:54:49,110 --> 01:54:51,870
I mean, like, yeah, he's making 
progress. 

2320
01:54:51,870 --> 01:54:54,470
The people are following him. 
They're they're accepting him as

2321
01:54:54,470 --> 01:54:58,820
their ruler. 
So this is progressing and it's 

2322
01:54:59,100 --> 01:55:01,420
he is going to come for us 
eventually, you know, and they 

2323
01:55:01,420 --> 01:55:04,780
might use that sort of intrigue 
to try to stop it. 

2324
01:55:04,780 --> 01:55:06,740
Maybe. 
Maybe there were assassination 

2325
01:55:06,740 --> 01:55:08,940
attempts earlier than this. 
We know that they happened from 

2326
01:55:08,940 --> 01:55:10,740
the darnish, but maybe there 
were some earlier ones. 

2327
01:55:11,220 --> 01:55:14,180
It's not super clear. 
But that would be a thing to do,

2328
01:55:14,180 --> 01:55:15,660
right? 
Like, rather than try to beat 

2329
01:55:15,660 --> 01:55:18,260
the Dragon's head on. 
You wouldn't want to admit to 

2330
01:55:18,260 --> 01:55:20,420
doing this, necessarily, because
it's not honorable. 

2331
01:55:20,420 --> 01:55:23,060
It's not noble to assassinate a 
foe. 

2332
01:55:23,580 --> 01:55:24,780
You're supposed to beat them on 
the battlefield. 

2333
01:55:24,780 --> 01:55:28,580
That's the Westerosi value. 
But if no one knows you did it, 

2334
01:55:28,780 --> 01:55:32,420
you might still have a pragmatic
reason to do it without other 

2335
01:55:32,420 --> 01:55:34,900
people knowing. 
And if you're maybe you have to 

2336
01:55:34,900 --> 01:55:37,540
have the ability to pull that 
off, You have to have a spy 

2337
01:55:37,540 --> 01:55:39,580
network, or you have to have 
assassins. 

2338
01:55:39,860 --> 01:55:41,500
I'm not sure that our Galac had 
that. 

2339
01:55:41,500 --> 01:55:44,300
I'm not sure that hair and whore
had that sort of thing. 

2340
01:55:44,660 --> 01:55:48,340
But someone might. 
I'm going to suppose when I when

2341
01:55:48,340 --> 01:55:50,900
I think about this that is not 
likely. 

2342
01:55:52,650 --> 01:55:54,450
Maybe from a smaller more local 
house. 

2343
01:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,010
But I think that the other Lords
are too arrogant. 

2344
01:55:57,010 --> 01:55:58,250
They're just not worried about 
them. 

2345
01:55:58,330 --> 01:56:00,850
They're not scouting that like 
like we talked early. 

2346
01:56:00,850 --> 01:56:03,370
He landed. 
They could have got him. 

2347
01:56:03,530 --> 01:56:04,690
They just saw he landed all 
right. 

2348
01:56:04,690 --> 01:56:06,770
Whatever they they were almost 
indifference. 

2349
01:56:06,810 --> 01:56:10,170
May and maybe some that maybe 
would have cared or might would 

2350
01:56:10,170 --> 01:56:13,370
have done something too far away
like the North, too far away to 

2351
01:56:13,370 --> 01:56:16,370
send a scout down there and get 
all the way back like it might 

2352
01:56:16,370 --> 01:56:19,290
have been too difficult. 
And also the North maybe that's 

2353
01:56:19,930 --> 01:56:22,170
doesn't seem like their their MO
that kind of like. 

2354
01:56:22,510 --> 01:56:24,110
Subversive. 
Sneaky kind of thing. 

2355
01:56:24,110 --> 01:56:25,190
Not their kind of thing, you 
know. 

2356
01:56:25,190 --> 01:56:28,870
But maybe, maybe Lannis Port. 
Maybe the Lannisters might have 

2357
01:56:28,870 --> 01:56:31,430
sent some scouts over that 
they're the ones that might be 

2358
01:56:31,430 --> 01:56:36,270
most likely to have had some 
spying or assassination 

2359
01:56:36,270 --> 01:56:38,270
attempts. 
But but I they also are the type

2360
01:56:38,270 --> 01:56:40,470
to be so arrogant to not think 
it matters. 

2361
01:56:40,470 --> 01:56:42,950
Like he's not really going to do
this. 

2362
01:56:42,950 --> 01:56:44,270
We've been here thousands of 
years. 

2363
01:56:44,310 --> 01:56:47,270
We're also farther removed. 
Like physically, our land is 

2364
01:56:47,270 --> 01:56:49,350
farther away from what's going 
on than, you know, the storm 

2365
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:51,710
lands, river lands, Right on. 
Well said. 

2366
01:56:52,510 --> 01:56:55,070
Well, point. 
It's, let's talk about the 

2367
01:56:55,070 --> 01:56:58,550
newness of the banner and the 
sigil itself, Nina says. 

2368
01:56:58,550 --> 01:57:00,870
It's I think it was a conscious 
decision from the Preconquest 

2369
01:57:00,870 --> 01:57:03,750
Targaryen to maintain a separate
identity from continental 

2370
01:57:03,750 --> 01:57:05,910
Westeros. 
Remember how even Elyria and the

2371
01:57:05,910 --> 01:57:09,030
Bruvosi Mumordana mocked the 
Westerosi fondness for sigils? 

2372
01:57:09,430 --> 01:57:11,430
I don't think the Valyrians 
would have been any different. 

2373
01:57:11,430 --> 01:57:14,030
And seeing sigils as a silly 
barbaric custom of the West, 

2374
01:57:14,350 --> 01:57:16,990
proof of their lack of 
refinement compared to the 

2375
01:57:16,990 --> 01:57:19,980
Dragon Lords of Valyria. 
Targaryen is the last of these. 

2376
01:57:19,980 --> 01:57:22,220
Dragon Lords might have thought 
that if they stooped to this 

2377
01:57:22,220 --> 01:57:24,740
level and adopted their own 
sigil, they would lose some of 

2378
01:57:24,740 --> 01:57:27,540
that Valyrian distinction, but 
Agon apparently saw it 

2379
01:57:27,540 --> 01:57:29,540
differently. 
He saw it being one of them was 

2380
01:57:29,540 --> 01:57:33,780
necessary to rule them, and it 
seems that he may have been 

2381
01:57:33,780 --> 01:57:35,420
right. 
This, this distance, this 

2382
01:57:36,260 --> 01:57:41,460
separation is not a benefit to 
rulership. 

2383
01:57:41,700 --> 01:57:44,940
In a lot of ways it might make 
them feel better about their 

2384
01:57:45,670 --> 01:57:49,310
pride and their superiority as a
culture, but it's not going to 

2385
01:57:49,310 --> 01:57:51,990
win them friends and allies. 
You're not going to overall that

2386
01:57:51,990 --> 01:57:55,670
many people by being Snooty. 
And we've seen this in the real 

2387
01:57:55,670 --> 01:57:57,630
world a lot. 
Like there were some of the 

2388
01:57:57,630 --> 01:58:02,630
kings of England that also ruled
kingdoms in France at the time. 

2389
01:58:02,630 --> 01:58:05,710
When they were during the times 
like the the Anju Vin dynasty 

2390
01:58:06,390 --> 01:58:11,510
and the some of the others that 
ruled that area, they would 

2391
01:58:11,510 --> 01:58:13,790
there, there were multiple kings
of England that didn't speak 

2392
01:58:13,790 --> 01:58:15,780
English. 
You know, like that's a good 

2393
01:58:15,780 --> 01:58:17,940
example of like, oh, I'm too 
good to speak English. 

2394
01:58:17,940 --> 01:58:21,180
Well, if you had, you might not 
have lost England, you know, 

2395
01:58:21,180 --> 01:58:23,740
that was a real point against 
you when things really came to a

2396
01:58:23,740 --> 01:58:25,580
head. 
Whereas Aegon's the opposite. 

2397
01:58:25,580 --> 01:58:28,060
He's like, I'm going to be as 
much like them as I can to win 

2398
01:58:28,060 --> 01:58:29,740
them over and make things go 
smoother. 

2399
01:58:29,740 --> 01:58:32,420
I'm not going to force this 
change on them because it's too 

2400
01:58:32,420 --> 01:58:34,420
big of a change. 
It sets up rebellions. 

2401
01:58:34,420 --> 01:58:37,020
It sets up bad feelings, it sets
up resentment. 

2402
01:58:37,660 --> 01:58:39,300
William the Conqueror behaved 
similarly. 

2403
01:58:39,300 --> 01:58:43,690
He now, they already shared a 
religion, France and England, 

2404
01:58:43,690 --> 01:58:47,890
when he subjugated England, but 
still he adopted a lot of local 

2405
01:58:47,890 --> 01:58:49,570
customs in some ways. 
Some things he changed 

2406
01:58:49,570 --> 01:58:52,410
dramatically, which begon will 
do as well, and some of his 

2407
01:58:52,410 --> 01:58:55,370
descendants will. 
But whenever possible, he tried 

2408
01:58:55,370 --> 01:59:00,490
to make it easy so that things 
they wouldn't have as many 

2409
01:59:00,490 --> 01:59:05,850
reasons to unite against these 
changes that they disagree with 

2410
01:59:05,850 --> 01:59:09,820
because they're so deeply 
rooted, or they're so used to 

2411
01:59:09,820 --> 01:59:12,380
it, or they just don't like 
they've been long disliked. 

2412
01:59:12,460 --> 01:59:15,820
The values held by this other 
side, the predisposed towards 

2413
01:59:15,820 --> 01:59:19,500
hating Targaryen beliefs or 
Valyrian religion, things like 

2414
01:59:19,500 --> 01:59:20,460
that. 
They're never going to accept 

2415
01:59:20,460 --> 01:59:22,180
that. 
So you know. 

2416
01:59:23,820 --> 01:59:30,300
Another factor to consider here,
probably the primary point or 

2417
01:59:30,300 --> 01:59:33,540
origin of these banners is 
battlefield signaling. 

2418
01:59:33,540 --> 01:59:35,980
Like, we're the good guys. 
This is home base. 

2419
01:59:35,980 --> 01:59:37,380
That's the captain over there, 
right? 

2420
01:59:38,140 --> 01:59:41,740
They're starting up a war with 
new armies, new soldiers from 

2421
01:59:41,740 --> 01:59:43,740
new land. 
They might, it might have been a

2422
01:59:43,740 --> 01:59:46,060
practical thing that Agon 
realized beyond this sort of 

2423
01:59:46,060 --> 01:59:48,820
symbolicness and incorporating 
the culture. 

2424
01:59:48,820 --> 01:59:52,220
But also we need to know that 
those are our troops and those 

2425
01:59:52,220 --> 01:59:54,980
the enemy troops and our troops 
need to know, like with 

2426
01:59:55,100 --> 01:59:56,300
etcetera, etcetera. 
There's some. 

2427
01:59:56,680 --> 01:59:59,400
Some some practical value to 
establishing a banner for the 

2428
01:59:59,400 --> 02:00:00,720
soldiers on the field. 
That's a good point. 

2429
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:02,760
Yeah. 
You wonder if they used banners 

2430
02:00:02,760 --> 02:00:05,480
and not heraldic banners in war 
for like that, like this was the

2431
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:07,440
symbol of the first company. 
But they're not. 

2432
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:09,880
They're not tied to one house or
one family. 

2433
02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:12,800
They're tied to. 
They're just a unit of the 

2434
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:15,800
state, you know, something like 
that, which because you're right

2435
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:17,080
like. 
Sometimes the idea that they 

2436
02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:20,840
didn't have any banners in 
battle is weird, but but not 

2437
02:00:20,840 --> 02:00:22,960
having a family, not having a 
family, so that's not weird. 

2438
02:00:24,050 --> 02:00:26,290
You can imagine the Targaryens 
didn't have to fight many 

2439
02:00:26,290 --> 02:00:27,930
battles and when they did, 
they're on Dragons. 

2440
02:00:27,930 --> 02:00:30,410
They're not worried about whose 
troops are underground, they're 

2441
02:00:30,410 --> 02:00:32,010
all bad guys, Just go burning 
with your dragon. 

2442
02:00:32,010 --> 02:00:34,130
But now when you're trying to 
use troops and some of the 

2443
02:00:34,130 --> 02:00:38,170
troops are new to your side and 
you don't have as many Dragons, 

2444
02:00:38,170 --> 02:00:40,290
there's all these reasons 
sometimes banners on on a 

2445
02:00:40,330 --> 02:00:45,210
battlefield 2 would be like, you
know, there'd be banners of a 

2446
02:00:45,210 --> 02:00:47,970
house, you know, signaling what 
faction you were in, some sub 

2447
02:00:47,970 --> 02:00:49,570
houses and allies and all these 
different things. 

2448
02:00:49,570 --> 02:00:52,250
But sometimes they would just be
like color-coded stuff like you 

2449
02:00:52,250 --> 02:00:54,850
know. 
I mean, the most obvious famous 

2450
02:00:54,850 --> 02:00:57,050
is just a white flag is you 
know, peace or treat or 

2451
02:00:57,050 --> 02:00:58,770
whatever. 
But, but there will be many 

2452
02:00:58,770 --> 02:01:02,250
other ways to signal on a 
battlefield with the banner or 

2453
02:01:02,250 --> 02:01:06,970
flame or whatever else. 
Yeah, and as well there would be

2454
02:01:08,410 --> 02:01:11,610
examples of this is how it's 
always been. 

2455
02:01:11,650 --> 02:01:14,090
This is how Westerosi peasants 
have been trained to fight. 

2456
02:01:14,090 --> 02:01:17,250
Why reinvent the wheel? 
They know to follow a banner. 

2457
02:01:17,570 --> 02:01:19,570
They know that that's how 
they've been taught and trained.

2458
02:01:19,730 --> 02:01:23,240
Why reinvent warfare like that 
works well enough. 

2459
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:26,360
Yeah so why why change that Just
just do the way it's always been

2460
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:29,800
Again that simplify. 
You know there's no reason to do

2461
02:01:29,800 --> 02:01:32,200
reinvent the wheel there. 
It's also interesting to 

2462
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:34,640
consider that the weather the 
the Celtagars and Valerians. 

2463
02:01:34,640 --> 02:01:36,680
When they when did they come up 
with a banner did they do it 

2464
02:01:36,680 --> 02:01:39,280
when the Targaryens did like 
okay we'll also become part of 

2465
02:01:39,280 --> 02:01:42,120
this or did they already do it 
have they already adopted some 

2466
02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:44,960
of those customs Maybe that's 
part of why a guns like hey it 

2467
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:47,360
actually has worked out pretty 
well for these guys let's let's 

2468
02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:50,340
do it also. 
But from a greater position of 

2469
02:01:50,340 --> 02:01:52,940
strength, rather than just 
trying to fit in, we're trying 

2470
02:01:52,940 --> 02:01:54,580
to fit in so that we can 
dominate. 

2471
02:01:54,580 --> 02:01:59,460
Not just trying to fit in so we 
can be prosperous, which are not

2472
02:01:59,500 --> 02:02:01,780
the same approach. 
But also the symbol itself is 

2473
02:02:01,780 --> 02:02:02,980
interesting. 
Like you can see why the 

2474
02:02:03,140 --> 02:02:08,900
celtagars pick their symbol and 
cuz Kleil's full of crabs, you 

2475
02:02:08,900 --> 02:02:12,340
know, I guess and the seahorse, 
they're a naval power. 

2476
02:02:12,660 --> 02:02:15,940
But a three headed dragon? 
I mean, that seems to indicate 

2477
02:02:15,940 --> 02:02:18,700
egg on Visanya and Rainey. 
Seems pretty straightforward. 

2478
02:02:19,330 --> 02:02:24,970
But it might be related to a 
dream if if Aegon's dream 

2479
02:02:24,970 --> 02:02:29,450
involved the three headed dragon
doing these things. 

2480
02:02:29,450 --> 02:02:33,650
Or symbolic 3 headed dragon 
uniting the realm, which may 

2481
02:02:33,650 --> 02:02:37,650
come again with Danny and her 
three Dragons maybe uniting the 

2482
02:02:37,650 --> 02:02:39,490
realm. 
Maybe that's what he actually 

2483
02:02:39,490 --> 02:02:41,210
dreamed of and thought it was 
him. 

2484
02:02:41,530 --> 02:02:44,770
Maybe it was both. 
Again, we have to keep a very 

2485
02:02:44,770 --> 02:02:49,520
open mind, literally, for the 
conception and possibility of 

2486
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:52,720
what Aegon's dream or dreams 
told him and how he interpreted 

2487
02:02:52,720 --> 02:02:53,680
them. 
There's two different things 

2488
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:54,960
there. 
There's what the dream actually 

2489
02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:56,960
indicated and what he thought of
it. 

2490
02:02:57,240 --> 02:02:59,360
And actually, a possible third 
thing is when he's telling his 

2491
02:02:59,360 --> 02:03:02,760
sisters and perhaps close 
friends about it with their 

2492
02:03:02,760 --> 02:03:04,870
interpretation of it. 
And then? 

2493
02:03:04,910 --> 02:03:08,030
Or when his sisters are telling 
him about the dream that they 

2494
02:03:08,030 --> 02:03:09,830
have, Yeah, there's an entirely 
right there. 

2495
02:03:09,950 --> 02:03:13,350
Or the dreams that they read 
about in signs and portents the 

2496
02:03:13,350 --> 02:03:15,230
day, he said written down. 
They're corroborating these 

2497
02:03:15,230 --> 02:03:18,270
different things and like it's 
just so wide open the possible 

2498
02:03:18,270 --> 02:03:22,390
interpretations. 
By the way, aside from dream 

2499
02:03:22,390 --> 02:03:25,630
interpretations, another angle 
to take on the reasoning of 

2500
02:03:25,630 --> 02:03:28,310
their their sigil with the three
dragon heads. 

2501
02:03:28,810 --> 02:03:34,050
Is it could represent a family 
of Dragons not one dragon right.

2502
02:03:34,250 --> 02:03:38,090
Like we have a lot of Dragons. 
We're a family of Dragons you 

2503
02:03:38,090 --> 02:03:41,130
know you you maybe you win one 
battle or you beat one dragon 

2504
02:03:41,130 --> 02:03:42,690
but we're a whole family of 
Dragons. 

2505
02:03:42,690 --> 02:03:45,650
It kind of going back to the 
just the overwhelming force here

2506
02:03:45,650 --> 02:03:47,850
you can't beat it. 
Sorry, we have a family of 

2507
02:03:47,850 --> 02:03:50,410
Dragons. 
Not that a hydra exists in that 

2508
02:03:50,410 --> 02:03:53,530
or in Westeros. 
Not that I know of, but it fits 

2509
02:03:53,530 --> 02:03:55,450
that idea. 
You cut one head off and two 

2510
02:03:55,450 --> 02:03:58,130
more just grow in its place. 
Yeah, you can't. 

2511
02:03:58,130 --> 02:04:00,490
You can't beat it by just 
cutting one head off. 

2512
02:04:02,610 --> 02:04:05,730
Nina wants to also bring up the 
title that Agon is claiming 

2513
02:04:05,730 --> 02:04:08,970
because it's pretty interesting 
and this is a great catch by 

2514
02:04:08,970 --> 02:04:11,370
her, A great subtopic to 
consider. 

2515
02:04:12,410 --> 02:04:15,730
It is not the one Agon or any of
the other Targaryen kings end up

2516
02:04:15,730 --> 02:04:18,190
adopting. 
It's distinctly non futile. 

2517
02:04:18,190 --> 02:04:20,710
Agon is describing himself as 
king of all Westeros, 

2518
02:04:20,710 --> 02:04:24,110
eliminating the political, 
political, political, cultural 

2519
02:04:24,110 --> 02:04:27,150
borders which had divided 
Westeros for the better part of 

2520
02:04:27,150 --> 02:04:30,270
8000 years. 
This is Agon is absolute 

2521
02:04:30,270 --> 02:04:33,310
monarch, redefining the realm 
not just as a single political 

2522
02:04:33,310 --> 02:04:37,110
entity, but a state which he 
controls totally and personally.

2523
02:04:37,230 --> 02:04:40,150
That absolutism extends to the 
second-half of the title. 

2524
02:04:40,840 --> 02:04:44,640
Agon is personally pledging to 
defend, quote his people without

2525
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:47,480
the intervention of their feudal
or preconquest overlords. 

2526
02:04:47,680 --> 02:04:51,160
Agon also does not put any 
emphasis on his familial name. 

2527
02:04:51,360 --> 02:04:54,600
For all his willingness to adopt
A sigil in the manner of 

2528
02:04:54,640 --> 02:04:57,840
established Westerosi dynasties,
he is ruling the realm as his 

2529
02:04:57,840 --> 02:05:01,880
own person rather than as merely
the representative of a new 

2530
02:05:01,880 --> 02:05:03,400
dynasty. 
What Nina means by that? 

2531
02:05:03,400 --> 02:05:06,120
That last part? 
Agon, first of his name, King of

2532
02:05:06,120 --> 02:05:07,480
all Westeros and shield of his 
people. 

2533
02:05:08,660 --> 02:05:12,100
Not Aegon Targaryen, first of 
his name, King of all Westeros 

2534
02:05:12,100 --> 02:05:14,700
and shield of his people, Not 
Aegon of House Targaryen, just 

2535
02:05:15,020 --> 02:05:17,140
Aegon, First of his name, King 
of all. 

2536
02:05:17,140 --> 02:05:19,940
They don't do not mention the 
word Targaryen, and that is a 

2537
02:05:19,940 --> 02:05:23,460
quote that is not, that is what 
they're saying. 

2538
02:05:23,460 --> 02:05:25,980
Queen Rainey's actually said 
those are apparently her exact 

2539
02:05:25,980 --> 02:05:27,460
words. 
They don't say the word 

2540
02:05:27,460 --> 02:05:29,060
Targaryen. 
Very interesting. 

2541
02:05:29,060 --> 02:05:31,220
That's why I call this a very 
good catch, because I didn't 

2542
02:05:31,220 --> 02:05:34,020
notice that the word Targaryen 
wasn't used in that declaration.

2543
02:05:34,660 --> 02:05:36,980
And it's very notable when you 
when you think about it. 

2544
02:05:39,970 --> 02:05:41,290
I don't exactly know what they 
meant. 

2545
02:05:41,290 --> 02:05:44,170
But I like, I like Nina's take 
on it that that's it's it's it's

2546
02:05:44,170 --> 02:05:49,090
another power move. 
It's like, yeah, me, I will 

2547
02:05:49,090 --> 02:05:53,210
decide who my heir is, right. 
I will have kids and and that 

2548
02:05:53,210 --> 02:05:55,210
won't necessarily be the way it 
goes. 

2549
02:05:55,210 --> 02:05:59,010
But yeah, it's pretty 
interesting. 

2550
02:06:00,530 --> 02:06:03,250
I welcome other interpretations 
and takes on the spot. 

2551
02:06:05,240 --> 02:06:07,240
Speaking of a change of 
leadership, let's also remind 

2552
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:10,080
ourselves briefly what else was 
happening elsewhere in the world

2553
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:12,280
as we make our way towards the 
end of this episode. 

2554
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:18,840
This was happening roughly 
coordinated with the end of the 

2555
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:20,360
era known as the Century of 
Blood. 

2556
02:06:20,360 --> 02:06:22,360
I mean, Agon fought in the 
Century of Blood. 

2557
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:24,560
So did Argalak. 
They fought in some wars during 

2558
02:06:24,560 --> 02:06:29,520
it and Argalak and Agon. 
Argalak may have fought in some 

2559
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:31,360
stuff before that too. 
We just know he fought against 

2560
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:35,740
Valantis and so did Agon. 
But there's lots of tumult and 

2561
02:06:35,740 --> 02:06:38,700
chaos in the Century of Blood. 
It's a whole century. 

2562
02:06:38,700 --> 02:06:40,900
We know a lot about it, but 
there's a hell of a lot we don't

2563
02:06:40,900 --> 02:06:42,340
know about it. 
There's a lot of room for more 

2564
02:06:42,340 --> 02:06:44,540
things. 
So there was disruption 

2565
02:06:44,540 --> 02:06:47,100
everywhere. 
But towards the end of the 

2566
02:06:47,100 --> 02:06:49,100
Century of Blood, things were 
starting to settle down. 

2567
02:06:49,100 --> 02:06:52,460
Things were starting to evolve. 
The New World, the new era was 

2568
02:06:52,460 --> 02:06:55,340
starting to take shape. 
The Free Cities were a lot 

2569
02:06:55,340 --> 02:06:57,020
closer to actually living up to 
their name. 

2570
02:06:57,020 --> 02:06:59,500
They're still not free, but they
were less. 

2571
02:06:59,540 --> 02:07:00,740
They're more free than they 
were. 

2572
02:07:01,200 --> 02:07:03,320
Slavers. 
Bay had been under Valyrian rule

2573
02:07:03,320 --> 02:07:08,440
for eons and was now free to be 
slavers independently instead of

2574
02:07:08,440 --> 02:07:12,000
slavers under Valyria. 
So the cities became self 

2575
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:15,120
governed and not free. 
That's that seems to be a better

2576
02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:17,080
way to phrase it. 
Self governed, yes. 

2577
02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:21,520
Free from higher authority. 
Not that the people in it are 

2578
02:07:21,520 --> 02:07:25,040
free, but the rulers are 
independent, more like other 

2579
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:25,920
rules. 
Yeah, they're more like city 

2580
02:07:25,920 --> 02:07:28,360
states. 
Yes, it's a bit of a reversal on

2581
02:07:28,360 --> 02:07:31,560
a global scale. 
Valeria had left Westeros alone 

2582
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:34,080
other than, you know, the 
outpost and trading with it, 

2583
02:07:34,440 --> 02:07:38,280
sending some Valerian steel in 
there now that they're gone. 

2584
02:07:38,920 --> 02:07:42,000
All those former territories are
various shades of independent. 

2585
02:07:43,080 --> 02:07:46,080
And it's Westeros that's now set
to be united under one new 

2586
02:07:46,080 --> 02:07:49,400
dynasty instead of Valerian 
Freehold dominating Essos and so

2587
02:07:49,400 --> 02:07:51,520
much of it, and and dominating 
parts of the world that they 

2588
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:55,240
don't even rule because of their
great wealth and power and no 

2589
02:07:55,240 --> 02:07:57,720
one wants to mess with them and 
etcetera. 

2590
02:07:58,710 --> 02:08:01,790
It's the fusil. 
The one surviving Dragon Lord 

2591
02:08:01,790 --> 02:08:05,030
family is now repeating that on 
the one continent that Valeria 

2592
02:08:05,030 --> 02:08:09,230
had left alone. 
So it's just like black and 

2593
02:08:09,230 --> 02:08:12,750
white ASOS is getting freer. 
Westeros is getting more united 

2594
02:08:13,310 --> 02:08:16,110
and less free in some ways, but 
more free in other ways. 

2595
02:08:16,110 --> 02:08:20,350
Because yes, liberty isn't just 
telling you you can do whatever 

2596
02:08:20,350 --> 02:08:22,430
you want. 
And being freedom is also 

2597
02:08:22,430 --> 02:08:26,190
involves having the ability to 
be free, which you can't do if 

2598
02:08:26,270 --> 02:08:28,790
the realm is chaotic and violent
and brutal. 

2599
02:08:28,790 --> 02:08:33,230
Which, to start off, the area 
that Egon was landing in was a 

2600
02:08:33,230 --> 02:08:35,350
little chaotic and he was 
bringing peace and stability to 

2601
02:08:35,350 --> 02:08:37,790
that region and intended to 
bring it to the rest of the 

2602
02:08:37,790 --> 02:08:40,910
continent. 
So a lot of people's lives will 

2603
02:08:40,910 --> 02:08:44,590
get a lot better under him. 
So in some ways they are more 

2604
02:08:44,590 --> 02:08:48,470
free. 
Free to not be killed, or free 

2605
02:08:48,470 --> 02:08:50,470
to be less likely to be killed. 
How are we going to friend? 

2606
02:08:50,870 --> 02:08:53,110
Certainly not simple, but 
simpler. 

2607
02:08:55,700 --> 02:08:58,340
Next time we'll get into the 
actual beginning of the 

2608
02:08:58,340 --> 02:09:02,140
conquest, the formation of the 
Crown Lands, the early battles, 

2609
02:09:02,780 --> 02:09:08,300
the early allies, and most 
certainly we'll get to the fight

2610
02:09:08,300 --> 02:09:10,740
with Heron. 
Maybe not much farther than 

2611
02:09:10,740 --> 02:09:14,540
that, but we'll see. 
That's the fun extra part that 

2612
02:09:14,540 --> 02:09:17,260
we're doing here with Valarridis
for fire and Blood. 

2613
02:09:17,580 --> 02:09:20,420
We don't exactly know where each
end point will be. 

2614
02:09:21,140 --> 02:09:23,380
We'll be going nice and 
thoroughly through everything 

2615
02:09:23,970 --> 02:09:28,290
and seeing where it takes us. 
Question from Dornish Dame 

2616
02:09:28,290 --> 02:09:30,210
Shield of his people that title 
interested me. 

2617
02:09:30,210 --> 02:09:32,650
You can see the link to Lord 
Protector of the Seven Kingdom, 

2618
02:09:32,650 --> 02:09:36,650
Slash Defender of the Realm, but
also to shield that guard the 

2619
02:09:36,650 --> 02:09:38,770
realms of men from the nice 
watch vows. 

2620
02:09:39,490 --> 02:09:41,650
I like that. 
Very important. 

2621
02:09:41,650 --> 02:09:44,170
Yeah, that's a good catch. 
Dornish Dame. 

2622
02:09:44,170 --> 02:09:46,290
As usual, Dornish Dame has lots 
of good catches. 

2623
02:09:47,050 --> 02:09:50,450
You can have especially thinking
in terms of like the whatever 

2624
02:09:50,450 --> 02:09:52,890
dream or vision you might have 
had that he might have been 

2625
02:09:53,640 --> 02:09:56,440
careful with his language. 
Idea of children Yeah, that is a

2626
02:09:56,440 --> 02:09:58,200
good catch. 
Yes, Maybe something we should 

2627
02:09:58,200 --> 02:10:00,480
think about more, marinate a 
little bit on that one, and 

2628
02:10:00,480 --> 02:10:03,080
maybe bring it up again at a 
later date next week or at some 

2629
02:10:03,080 --> 02:10:07,120
other time. 
Trivia answer the question was, 

2630
02:10:07,120 --> 02:10:11,040
who has struck Hagon with a 
blade successfully? 

2631
02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:12,440
Who's the only person we know 
how to do that? 

2632
02:10:13,480 --> 02:10:17,120
My guess is Ori's Ori's breath 
in training, I think. 

2633
02:10:20,120 --> 02:10:22,520
That was the most known trivia 
answer we've ever had. 

2634
02:10:23,460 --> 02:10:25,380
Oh, really? 
And I don't know it you're 

2635
02:10:25,460 --> 02:10:27,940
you're muted Jay, but. 
Oh, I said. 

2636
02:10:27,940 --> 02:10:30,500
I think that was the most known 
trivia answer we've ever had. 

2637
02:10:30,500 --> 02:10:33,420
I think, like everyone knew, it 
was like an instant cacophony of

2638
02:10:33,420 --> 02:10:35,380
the same answer. 
The Senia. 

2639
02:10:35,460 --> 02:10:37,180
The Senia, Yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

2640
02:10:37,500 --> 02:10:43,020
OK, the pretty, pretty notable 
tale about the Senia doing that.

2641
02:10:43,020 --> 02:10:45,900
It's pretty memorable. 
She tried to argue that he 

2642
02:10:45,900 --> 02:10:48,460
needed a King's Guard, devoted 
King's Guard, something like it.

2643
02:10:48,460 --> 02:10:50,620
And he's like, I don't need a 
King's Guard, my guards are 

2644
02:10:50,620 --> 02:10:52,570
fine. 
She's like cuts him in the face.

2645
02:10:52,570 --> 02:10:58,290
He's like, your guards are slow,
like damn that's that's harsh. 

2646
02:10:58,290 --> 02:10:59,810
Like you just cut the king in 
the face. 

2647
02:10:59,810 --> 02:11:01,570
I mean, he is your younger 
brother, but still. 

2648
02:11:01,730 --> 02:11:02,730
Your brother. 
Yeah. 

2649
02:11:02,730 --> 02:11:04,210
Like whoa, with with dark 
sister. 

2650
02:11:04,210 --> 02:11:08,650
So you know, it's like, that's 
cut me in the face, like made 

2651
02:11:09,450 --> 02:11:10,410
point made. 
Yes. 

2652
02:11:10,770 --> 02:11:14,850
Literally made on your face. 
Point made on your face. 

2653
02:11:14,850 --> 02:11:17,490
Egg on your face. 
Oh, egg on. 

2654
02:11:17,490 --> 02:11:23,270
Your face is bleeding. 
So yeah, next week we will pick 

2655
02:11:23,270 --> 02:11:26,750
up where we left off live 
streams at 3:00 Eastern as 

2656
02:11:26,750 --> 02:11:27,390
usual. 
Do that. 

2657
02:11:27,590 --> 02:11:29,910
What if we don't pick up where 
we left off and we just pick up 

2658
02:11:29,950 --> 02:11:31,830
somewhere else? 
Well, that would be a surprise. 

2659
02:11:34,350 --> 02:11:36,390
I don't think we'll do that, but
maybe we will. 

2660
02:11:37,270 --> 02:11:39,190
You never know. 
Kick down your toes, yeah? 

2661
02:11:39,190 --> 02:11:42,470
So I recommend Before the 
Dragons Under the Dragons 

2662
02:11:42,550 --> 02:11:47,010
Valerian, the Doom Dragonstone. 
Like my shirt, Valeria One and 

2663
02:11:47,010 --> 02:11:49,650
Valeria 2, we have two different
Valeria episodes, The Wars of 

2664
02:11:49,650 --> 02:11:51,370
Valeria and the Valerian 
Freehold House. 

2665
02:11:51,370 --> 02:11:54,250
Valerian House Celtic are 
Century of Blood, our patron 

2666
02:11:54,250 --> 02:11:56,410
episode on Mentaris. 
That's a really good one. 

2667
02:11:56,770 --> 02:11:59,810
I probably mentioned some other 
ones that I don't recall. 

2668
02:12:00,130 --> 02:12:03,270
I'll say. 
Don't even think about coming 

2669
02:12:03,270 --> 02:12:06,150
back here, unless you've watched
all of those episodes before 

2670
02:12:06,150 --> 02:12:12,270
Sunday. 
Shay is becoming a bit of a 

2671
02:12:12,270 --> 02:12:16,310
Vesenia herself here. 
She's projecting, yeah. 

2672
02:12:16,470 --> 02:12:18,430
Yeah. 
Who is Am I the Vesenia and 

2673
02:12:18,430 --> 02:12:21,110
Shawn's the Rainy Your Avon? 
Is that right? 

2674
02:12:21,750 --> 02:12:24,750
I guess I. 
Don't know Shawn's older than 

2675
02:12:24,750 --> 02:12:26,550
you, but he is. 
Maybe I don't. 

2676
02:12:26,950 --> 02:12:28,910
Know, as long as I get to marry 
Zees, I'm happy. 

2677
02:12:30,430 --> 02:12:31,590
Well, you know, that's. 
Terrible. 

2678
02:12:31,790 --> 02:12:35,030
It rainy. 
So I'm going to spend 10 nights 

2679
02:12:35,030 --> 02:12:38,870
with Sean for everyone I spend 
with you is yeah Sean you're 

2680
02:12:38,870 --> 02:12:42,230
going to die over door you'll 
die first. 

2681
02:12:42,950 --> 02:12:46,150
That's bad for you. 
All right folks thanks For all 

2682
02:12:46,150 --> 02:12:50,110
those of you who subscribe to us
voluntarily with a monthly 

2683
02:12:50,110 --> 02:12:53,030
donation via Patriot or Spotify 
subscription. 

2684
02:12:53,070 --> 02:12:56,430
Both of those are valid options.
So is a recurring donation 

2685
02:12:56,430 --> 02:12:59,680
through PayPal. 
You can set that up on through 

2686
02:12:59,680 --> 02:13:01,760
our website. 
Our website has other ways to 

2687
02:13:01,760 --> 02:13:05,120
support us as well. 
We've got some links that we get

2688
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:07,720
a cut of if you shop through 
them. 

2689
02:13:08,560 --> 02:13:13,480
Our Discord meeting, our next 
Discord hangout is August 24th. 

2690
02:13:14,000 --> 02:13:15,160
We've been having a lot of fun 
with that. 

2691
02:13:15,160 --> 02:13:18,440
Meeting. 
Yeah, meeting, meeting to play 

2692
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:21,080
games, meeting to play this 
again, we're going to do Jackbox

2693
02:13:21,080 --> 02:13:23,840
games. 
That won't be the case every 

2694
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:26,200
time, but it has been the first 
three times for these. 

2695
02:13:26,820 --> 02:13:28,980
I say we had a request in the 
chat too. 

2696
02:13:28,980 --> 02:13:31,060
There was a lot. 
There was a discussion about cat

2697
02:13:31,060 --> 02:13:35,260
pun names in the chat, and Lady 
Ray requested that we have that 

2698
02:13:35,260 --> 02:13:39,220
little round table during the 
beginning of our Discord hangout

2699
02:13:39,220 --> 02:13:40,860
that we talk about cat pun 
names. 

2700
02:13:42,060 --> 02:13:44,380
And that sounds good to me. 
So more incentive for the rest 

2701
02:13:44,380 --> 02:13:47,300
of Y'all. 
You can participate in the 

2702
02:13:47,300 --> 02:13:51,460
audience participation functions
of the Discord Hangouts without 

2703
02:13:51,460 --> 02:13:53,180
being a patron or Spotify 
subscriber. 

2704
02:13:53,340 --> 02:13:56,840
But if you are, you can also 
directly play as one of the 

2705
02:13:56,840 --> 02:14:00,360
competing members or writing 
answers or so. 

2706
02:14:00,360 --> 02:14:02,080
There's a lot of ways to 
participate and. 

2707
02:14:02,080 --> 02:14:05,760
That'll be August 24th at 9:00 
PM Eastern again. 

2708
02:14:05,760 --> 02:14:07,200
And we will do. 
We're doing these every month, 

2709
02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:09,680
so if you missed this month, 
just keep keep your eye out for 

2710
02:14:09,680 --> 02:14:11,120
next month. 
Yeah, and if you're hearing this

2711
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:13,320
much later, you know. 
If you're not hearing this live,

2712
02:14:13,320 --> 02:14:14,960
you're hearing it months later, 
Weeks later. 

2713
02:14:15,240 --> 02:14:17,080
Just check in with our Discord 
to Facebook group. 

2714
02:14:17,080 --> 02:14:20,360
We keep the stuff updated so you
can always find out when the 

2715
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:22,760
next one will be. 
Based on what? 

2716
02:14:23,660 --> 02:14:25,180
When you find yourself time 
wise. 

2717
02:14:26,340 --> 02:14:28,180
Thanks as well to Nina. 
Where are you? 

2718
02:14:28,180 --> 02:14:29,660
Where are you? 
When are you? 

2719
02:14:29,660 --> 02:14:40,220
When are you? 
I'm the three eyed crow. 

2720
02:14:40,220 --> 02:14:44,700
Seeing this from the future. 
Thanks as well to Nina for her 

2721
02:14:44,700 --> 02:14:47,060
great notes, a lot of excellent 
discussion topics. 

2722
02:14:47,060 --> 02:14:49,020
We appreciate them almost like 
she's able to. 

2723
02:14:49,020 --> 02:14:51,780
We're able to get more out of 
less with these this style of 

2724
02:14:51,780 --> 02:14:54,620
episode. 
We're we're really delving in 

2725
02:14:54,620 --> 02:14:56,060
and discussing things a little 
more. 

2726
02:14:56,060 --> 02:14:59,620
There's less overview, less just
me telling you things, more 

2727
02:14:59,620 --> 02:15:03,220
discussion. 
Which Nina's additions really, 

2728
02:15:03,220 --> 02:15:06,820
really helped fuel that Joey, 
Jesse and Bran. 

2729
02:15:06,820 --> 02:15:10,100
Thanks to Y'all as well for our 
music, our intro and outro 

2730
02:15:10,100 --> 02:15:12,380
music, and to Michael Clarfeld 
for the video intro. 

2731
02:15:12,660 --> 02:15:17,060
Thanks as well to our engineer 
and we'll see you all next time.

2732
02:15:17,340 --> 02:15:20,020
For more Valar, reread us.