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November 20th, 2018, just under 
five years ago. 

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It's, you know, August as we're 
recording this, but yeah, 

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that'll be the five year 
anniversary of Fire and Blood. 

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George had so much fun riding 
the World of Ice and Fire that 

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he wrote way more than was 
necessary or even viable to put 

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in the book. 
You've seen it, it's pretty big,

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but you know, there's a lot of 
art in there. full-sized art, 

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full page art, maps and things 
like that. 

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See, he wrote so much of the 
socalled extra stuff that the 

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extra stuff was more than what 
he wrote for The World of Ice 

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and Fire. 
Which is a little funny because 

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Fire and Blood is smaller 
physically, but longer in terms 

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of word count. 
And that's where fire and blood 

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came from. 
That extra material, all that 

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socalled extra stuff, became 
more than just extra stuff. 

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And of course he added a bit 
more to it and edited it. 

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But ultimately he unleashed 
himself on it, and it was 

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interesting because he held back
for so many years. 

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A lot of authors have the 
attitude. 

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In fact, most authors, like the 
overwhelming majority of of 

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professional authors, have the 
attitude that back story and 

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history and world building 
should serve the story. 

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You shouldn't have much in the 
in the realm of extraneous. 

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Now I'm going to bring this up 
later because I think that might

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be changing for modern audiences
in some ways. 

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But regardless, this is the way 
George his career went. 

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It was the common attitude for 
authors, as I've said, not just 

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authors, but screenwriters, 
storytellers in general. 

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He had all these ideas though. 
Like he knew some of these 

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details. 
He just couldn't justify fitting

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them all in. 
He's already fitting in a lot of

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back story. 
I mean, he already had puts in 

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more than most authors would. 
I wouldn't say it's extreme. 

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He does it to serve the story he
does. 

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It's not extraneous. 
He's not just throwing what he 

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can in there to fill it out just
to add some more. 

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It's that's not how he operates.
I want to interject real quick. 

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It's worth noting that all that 
extra quote, UN quote, extra 

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back story also allows him new 
directions to go in the future 

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and. 
Covers up potential mysteries or

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whatever. 
Clouds the information that 

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we're getting to hide what he 
might really want us to key in 

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on. 
So there's some value to that 

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beyond just, I don't know, lack 
of discipline and writing or 

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what I agree. 
And part of what you're saying 

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is important because, and This 
is why I said we should talk 

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about a little more later, about
serving the story and how much 

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back story put in, is because 
modern audiences are We're more 

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savvy. 
We're not necessarily smarter, 

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but we have more experience with
stories because there's more 

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part of our life. 
We have so many stories to read 

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and enjoy and entertain 
ourselves more than other 

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generations that have ever lived
on Earth. 

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And we're able to put a 
collective effort into that. 

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So in a past, you might have a 
book club with five or seven 

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people that would chat about it,
but now we have a million people

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instantly interacting. 
Every theory that anyone might 

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come up with is getting hashed 
out by people all over the 

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world, and it's not. 
And it's the reverse of the 

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crowd moves at the speed of its 
lowest members. 

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No crowd like that moves at the 
speed of its fastest members, 

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the people who figured things 
out and who's ideas take hold 

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within a community. 
Everybody vamps and explores and

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plays with those ideas, not the 
ones that people suggest that no

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one cares about. 
So. 

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Or the ones that came out a year
later. 

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Right, right. 
And and to add to all that, A 

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Song of Ice and Fire became much
bigger as a story and as a 

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phenomenon, as a cultural global
phenomenon than George had ever 

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planned for or could have even 
expected or predicted. 

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We, the fans, demanded more on 
top of that. 

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Like, yeah, we do want more back
story. 

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We want this world filled out 
more, even if it's not part of 

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the story. 
Not everyone wants that. 

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But if you're listening to this 
show, you're probably one of the

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people that is in column A. 
It's like, yes, give us more. 

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We'll take as much as you got, 
George. 

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Got any more of that history, 
George? 

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You know, and we'll, we'll 
totally take it. 

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Whatever, you know, unrelated or
not, we'll find ways to relate 

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it to the main story anyway, 
even if it's not what he 

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intended. 
We'll find those parallels and 

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it's fun even without that. 
So George's outlook changed. 

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He's like, actually, I should 
fill all this out because people

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want it. 
I don't just have to serve the 

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story. 
We're creating a whole like 

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fandom here. 
It's not just a story anymore. 

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And so his perspective on that 
change, his attitude change, and

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that's why he unleashed himself 
on fire and blood, because he 

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had been holding that back and 
all of a sudden he woke up one 

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day and was like, actually I 
should go full bore on this. 

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I should let the fire hose go 
and flood the flood the lands, 

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like flood the neck, right. 
So we'll be zooming in, reading 

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between the lines, extrapolating
everything we can. 

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I'm so excited for this reread. 
We've had this five years almost

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to think about it. 
You know, we had some great 

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ideas when it first came out. 
We were flooded with all the 

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newness of it. 
But having time to sit on it and

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think about it, new ideas for 
sure. 

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We'll also be doing the opposite
of reading between the lines and

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extrapolating. 
We'll be looking at the big 

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picture, high level angles, 
trying to look at the whole 

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world, or at least all Westeros.
Lots of different angles to 

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this. 
It's one of the challenges. 

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By the way, one of the things 
about rereads that really throws

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me is there's just so many 
rabbit holes and topics and 

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everything else in between that 
we can dive into. 

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It's like, well, which one of 
these do we actually want to 

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focus on? 
We can't do them all. 

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Some of them we set aside to 
talk about later, sometimes some

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of them we delve into now, well,
whatever. 

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It's going to be a lot of fun 
regardless of which topics we've

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actually picked. 
And let me tell you, we've 

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picked quite a few. 
I feel the need to point out 

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here. 
For me this is just a read 

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reread. 
I'm diving into it for the first

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time, so hopefully there is a 
few people out there that can 

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relate to that experience and 
hopefully I'll maybe have some 

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new insights. 
Even if I have some ideas that 

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are just completely wrong and I 
get corrected, maybe it will 

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test why certain ideas are right
or wrong and. 

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I don't know if that makes any 
sense, but I hope that I get to 

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bring a perspective to this that
includes what you just said is 

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I'm overwhelmed with the rabbit 
hole just reading through this 

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almost every paragraph. 
I'm like, I could spend an hour 

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on just this, you know. 
And that's a good segue, by the 

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way. 
Yes, this is the last frontier 

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of Sean's unsullied status. 
If you've been around with us 

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for a while, you know that we 
started with Sean as a 

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completely unsullied show 
watcher. 

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He had not read any books he the
show was new. 

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Ever. 
Not a single book. 

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Not a book. 
He had never read any books at 

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all. 
He was illiterate. 

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Illiteracy. 
What does that even mean? 

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I learned to read from A Song of
Ice. 

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That's right. 
You started off right on the 

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advanced Davos. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, exactly like Davos. 
You started with the song. 

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You started with Westeros 
history as your history of. 

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The sun egg. 
Egg on, yeah, egg on, Yeah. 

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Can Ioffer you an egg on in 
these trying times? 

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So you learned how to read 
through A Song of Ice and Fire 

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and no the but you read the 
book. 

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Since then, you've read The 
World of Ice and Fire, You've 

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watched the show and the 
original show, and you've 

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00:07:52,570 --> 00:07:54,810
watched House of Dragon Season 
one, but you have not. 

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You don't know what's. 
Coming, I read. 

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I read Duncan Duncan also, so 
you've read everything Red 

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Duncan X2 or three times and so.
So this last frontier of your 

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unsulliedness is the Dance of 
the Dragons, the immediate time 

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after it. 
But I didn't read all of World 

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00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:06,490
of Ice and Fire, cuz I try to 
skip this Targaryen sections 

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that might spoil House of Dragon
stuff. 

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And we're going to keep it that 
way. 

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So that's that's part of our 
goal here with this reread of 

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Fire and Blood, is we're going 
to go as far as the Dance of the

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Dragons. 
We're going to stop with the 

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Cyrus's death, basically and 
then we'll come back to it after

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season 2 and goes a little bit 
farther and then you know keep 

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going until we've we've finished
it all and in the meantime other

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things will happen. 
So that's gonna be great. 

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It's it's a kick off to our new 
Val Arboreta series. 

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We'll be dealing with how it's 
all going to work and of course 

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the start of the Targaryen 
dynasty that's going to mean egg

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ONS conquest here in episode 
one. 

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All that and more on this 
episode of History of Westeros 

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podcast. 
And you know it's live because 

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I'm just now having a thought 
that I can't believe we we 

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didn't go over before. 
But there might be sometimes 

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when you guys want to talk about
future stuff that might spoil 

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me. 
I could sign off early. 

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We could do a special episode, 
something like that. 

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There's enough demand. 
I don't know what you think 

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about that, but right on. 
Just occurred to me. 

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Hello, everybody. 
Yes, it's time to get started on

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our reread adventure. 
Sean, what did you bring to 

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drink today? 
For this kickoff, you have a 

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Fire and Blood Kickoff beverage.
You know, I wish it was a little

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deeper red. 
There's one of the naked drinks.

181
00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:27,270
It's called Rainbow Machine, 
which is a much bloodier red 

182
00:09:27,270 --> 00:09:29,390
looking color. 
But this is the Berry protein 

183
00:09:30,110 --> 00:09:33,510
mixed with wild and watermelon 
Bang, which is back on stock 

184
00:09:33,510 --> 00:09:38,090
now, and Kiwi watermelon. 
Sparkling ice and. 

185
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It's a good mix, fire and like 
old blood, it's kind of 

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valerian. 
It's purple with some silvery 

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white in it. 
My thermos is much purpleier 

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00:09:48,770 --> 00:09:52,290
than yours. 
So yes, we have, we don't have 

189
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the fire and blood. 
We don't have the red and black,

190
00:09:53,810 --> 00:09:55,650
but we do have the purple for 
their eyes. 

191
00:09:55,650 --> 00:09:59,050
That's right, Yes. 
Does your thermos bring all the 

192
00:09:59,050 --> 00:10:01,510
Dragons to the yard? 
Well, it is very. 

193
00:10:01,550 --> 00:10:04,990
Much purpleier than mine, it is 
very strong coffee, so I don't 

194
00:10:04,990 --> 00:10:06,070
know. 
I don't know how Dragons feel 

195
00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:09,550
about coffee or caffeine in 
general, but I feel like they. 

196
00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:12,030
Feel like a hot drink? 
If they did drink it, it would 

197
00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:15,470
wake them up. 
Sometimes you need that when 

198
00:10:15,470 --> 00:10:19,150
you're slumbering for months at 
a time like an old dragon might.

199
00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:22,060
So yeah, this series has been 
planned for a while. 

200
00:10:22,060 --> 00:10:25,140
You already know it by name. 
We've been saying Valar. 

201
00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:28,700
We read it since before it was 
actually a podcast series. 

202
00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:30,780
It's just something we say to 
encourage it. 

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00:10:30,860 --> 00:10:34,660
The the process of rereading is 
very rewarding in this world and

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00:10:34,660 --> 00:10:36,940
it helps you all enjoy our show 
more. 

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00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:40,260
I'd say Throughout this episode 
we will encounter topics that 

206
00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:42,940
we've done full episodes on. 
Speaking of rabbit holes, some 

207
00:10:42,940 --> 00:10:44,540
of those rabbit holes have been 
covered. 

208
00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:46,860
We're obviously not going to 
overlap too much. 

209
00:10:46,860 --> 00:10:48,940
We may point you in that 
direction. 

210
00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:52,460
At the end of this episode, I 
will list episodes that were 

211
00:10:52,460 --> 00:10:56,660
relevant to this one. 
And this list will be long this 

212
00:10:56,660 --> 00:10:59,220
time, and probably a lot of 
times in fire and Blood because 

213
00:10:59,220 --> 00:11:01,500
we're going to touch on so many 
topics, which enables us to 

214
00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:05,380
revisit things we've talked 
about before, at least briefly 

215
00:11:05,380 --> 00:11:06,660
or at least point you in that 
direction. 

216
00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:10,100
Also at the end of the episode 
will be the answer to this 

217
00:11:10,100 --> 00:11:14,540
trivia question. 
What was and still is George R 

218
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:19,630
Martin's nickname for Fire and 
Blood as inspired by JRR 

219
00:11:19,630 --> 00:11:22,910
Tokyian? 
By the way, we just saw a clip 

220
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:26,190
of Brandon Sanderson, the author
of Stormlight Archive, Missed 

221
00:11:26,190 --> 00:11:30,150
Born, and just staggering 
amounts of other things. 

222
00:11:30,430 --> 00:11:36,350
He's a real type, a writer where
he and his podcast partner were 

223
00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:39,230
talking about. 
They made a four tiered system, 

224
00:11:39,230 --> 00:11:44,380
like one through 10 rating that 
each author has a rating for. 

225
00:11:44,380 --> 00:11:47,820
Like their impact, their ability
to write different types of 

226
00:11:47,820 --> 00:11:50,260
stories, their just overall 
quality. 

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00:11:50,260 --> 00:11:52,860
And I forget what the 4th 
category was, you have to be 

228
00:11:52,860 --> 00:11:54,620
living still. 
And George was there. 

229
00:11:54,740 --> 00:11:58,100
George was Brandon's #1 cuz he 
gets a 10 in every category and 

230
00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,380
just hearing him talk about why 
George is good an author talking

231
00:12:01,380 --> 00:12:05,950
about why George is so good is 
really interesting so I posted 

232
00:12:05,950 --> 00:12:07,830
it in our discord. 
So I guess this is turning into 

233
00:12:07,830 --> 00:12:09,270
a little shout out for our 
discord. 

234
00:12:09,270 --> 00:12:12,630
But mostly I just wanted you all
to appreciate another author 

235
00:12:12,630 --> 00:12:16,150
just glowing about Jordan saying
George is the best like current 

236
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:19,230
living author. 
No one affected fantasy the way 

237
00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:22,070
he did with one single book, 
since Tokyo. 

238
00:12:22,630 --> 00:12:25,230
So And Tokyo, of course is not 
living. 

239
00:12:25,230 --> 00:12:27,870
So that given the way they 
framed it, it makes a lot of 

240
00:12:27,870 --> 00:12:31,500
sense. 
Anyway, enough plugs for George.

241
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:34,020
You all already know he's great.
You probably wouldn't be here 

242
00:12:34,020 --> 00:12:36,340
otherwise. 
So fire and blood? 

243
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:38,380
Not as complex as A Song of Ice 
and Fire. 

244
00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:39,900
Let's start with that. 
Some setup. 

245
00:12:40,020 --> 00:12:44,060
It is complex in different ways.
A good example is that we still 

246
00:12:44,060 --> 00:12:47,300
have unreliable narrators, but 
it's a different kind of 

247
00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:49,660
unreliable narrator. 
It's the same things that, like 

248
00:12:49,660 --> 00:12:53,660
a historian would put their own 
biases into something, or the 

249
00:12:53,660 --> 00:12:55,340
things that they aren't witness 
to. 

250
00:12:55,540 --> 00:12:59,480
Whereas when we're inside 
someone's head, we're subject to

251
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:04,800
their internal biases and things
that have nothing to do with 

252
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,160
writing a book, writing down an 
accurate take on what happened 

253
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,360
in the past. 
It's just a different approach. 

254
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,920
It's like the TV and radio have 
things in common, but there's 

255
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,800
pretty huge differences 
ultimately in how they're 

256
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,280
delivered and let alone the 
technology behind them. 

257
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:24,050
And as long as Ice and Fire, we 
read between the lines a lot. 

258
00:13:25,050 --> 00:13:27,810
It's human Pov's, after all. 
They're fallible. 

259
00:13:27,810 --> 00:13:30,130
George is hiding things from us.
He doesn't want to give 

260
00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:33,090
everything away at once. 
There's secrets he wants to hold

261
00:13:33,090 --> 00:13:35,050
onto. 
He also wants to tease things, 

262
00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:40,050
so there is value in delving in 
and trying to see what he's 

263
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:43,930
trying to tease to us. 
Likewise in terms of the world 

264
00:13:43,930 --> 00:13:46,690
of Ice and Fire, we have some 
overlap in the historical style,

265
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:49,950
but it isn't written with a 
narrative like Fire and Blood 

266
00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:51,190
is. 
That's like an evolution of 

267
00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:55,110
George's in world history. 
The world of Ice and Fire is, I 

268
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:57,630
would say it's dry, but it's not
written like a story at all. 

269
00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:59,550
Whereas Fire and Blood has a lot
of story to it. 

270
00:13:59,550 --> 00:14:02,910
It is like half narrative, half 
story, half history book, which 

271
00:14:02,910 --> 00:14:05,030
I think is a good happy medium 
for George to have found. 

272
00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:08,870
I remember when this book came 
out that being a major point of 

273
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:10,510
comparison. 
A lot of people said that that 

274
00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:12,670
was an immediate reaction, was 
like this book is actually 

275
00:14:12,670 --> 00:14:14,630
really fun to read. 
The World of Ice and Fire was 

276
00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:17,870
more like people enjoy the 
information in it, but it wasn't

277
00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:19,750
as enjoyable. 
It wasn't a page Turner. 

278
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:21,550
It was like something you read a
little bit at a time, maybe 

279
00:14:21,550 --> 00:14:25,030
digest it, think about it, add 
it to your knowledge of the 

280
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:27,790
world. 
But yeah, you're not just 

281
00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:29,070
sitting there. 
Most of us weren't poor. 

282
00:14:29,070 --> 00:14:31,910
I mean, I was, but a lot of 
people weren't out there just 

283
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:33,910
pouring over it. 
Fire and Blood, though, it is a 

284
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:35,670
page Turner. 
You've got dialogue and 

285
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:39,470
narrative and characters and 
various storylines going at 

286
00:14:39,470 --> 00:14:42,190
once, which has a bit of A Song 
of Ice and Fire feel to it. 

287
00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:46,080
So yeah, and he didn't want to 
create an overview of the world 

288
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,320
from an all seeing narrator's 
point of view. 

289
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,360
He wanted to keep that realistic
in world vibe going. 

290
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,680
There's no one who knows 
everything, even George himself.

291
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,400
If you've read the beginning of 
it, see how it's dedicated, or 

292
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,740
if you've listened to it, it 
says that the book is by 

293
00:15:02,740 --> 00:15:06,300
Archmaester Gildain, transcribed
by George R Martin. 

294
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:09,700
So he really is really leaning 
into this vibe, and I love it. 

295
00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:13,700
It's like George found these old
texts and transcribed them for 

296
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:15,100
us. 
Were they in English? 

297
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:17,820
George what? 
What is Westeros? 

298
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:20,060
Common tongue. 
Yeah, the common tongue. 

299
00:15:20,860 --> 00:15:24,620
So I think that's really neat. 
So it's like it's as if we're 

300
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:27,460
maester so we would be the ones 
reading this cuz this book 

301
00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:31,140
wouldn't be widely distributed 
in world Cuz most people can't 

302
00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:33,100
even read in this world. 
Like what would they do with 

303
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:34,180
this book? 
They wouldn't even know what 

304
00:15:34,180 --> 00:15:35,420
they had. 
They'd use it as like a weight. 

305
00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:39,180
They'd hold hold down something.
Not paper though, because they 

306
00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:41,980
don't have that either. 
It's not a paper weight some. 

307
00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:45,380
Might use it as a fire starter. 
Yeah, Pages out the kindling. 

308
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:46,260
Really. 
A kindling. 

309
00:15:46,260 --> 00:15:47,900
You're right. 
It's a tragic use of kids. 

310
00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:50,540
My stomach thinking about that. 
It says fire on it though. 

311
00:15:50,540 --> 00:15:52,780
If they recognize the word, 
they're like, well that's what 

312
00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:54,460
this is for. 
It's for making fire. 

313
00:15:54,460 --> 00:15:55,900
I don't know what that other 
word is for blood. 

314
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:57,380
It's like Oh yeah, cuz the paper
cuts. 

315
00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:58,580
That's right. 
Paper cuts, Yeah. 

316
00:15:58,740 --> 00:15:59,900
Paper cuts are now how to get 
you. 

317
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:01,620
Yeah. 
Do you get paper cuts on 

318
00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:03,020
parchment? 
Is that what you call parchment 

319
00:16:03,020 --> 00:16:05,380
cuts or vellum cuts or? 
I don't know. 

320
00:16:05,380 --> 00:16:07,220
I don't know if it's jagged 
enough or thin. 

321
00:16:07,220 --> 00:16:09,780
Enough paper cuts on cardboard. 
So, I don't know. 

322
00:16:09,820 --> 00:16:12,620
I guess you're right. 
Gonna have to ask the Maesters 

323
00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:16,260
about that one. 
And this is true too, of the 

324
00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:17,740
real world. 
If you compare The World of Ice 

325
00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:21,220
and Fire to Fire and Blood. 
I've read a lot of history books

326
00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:24,260
in my life. 
Some of them are more fun than 

327
00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:26,820
others, and that just comes down
to the author. 

328
00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:29,300
I mean, yes, some, sometimes it 
comes down to the history 

329
00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:32,340
itself, like some parts of 
history are drier than others. 

330
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:35,340
Some time periods have a lot 
more going on. 

331
00:16:36,220 --> 00:16:40,140
But you can do a lot by how you 
write it. 

332
00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:42,700
If you make it into, you can 
make things interesting more 

333
00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:45,180
interesting than they are, and 
you can also make things less 

334
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:47,580
interesting than they are. 
But George, of course, that's 

335
00:16:47,580 --> 00:16:50,300
not a problem here. 
I just thought that was worth 

336
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:52,380
mentioning. 
I mean, sometimes the audience 

337
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:55,510
for a history book is other 
academics. 

338
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:58,750
And so maybe you're not trying 
too hard to be interesting to be

339
00:16:58,750 --> 00:17:00,350
engaging. 
Interesting, of course, is in 

340
00:17:00,350 --> 00:17:03,310
the eye of the beholder. 
But some historians are better 

341
00:17:03,310 --> 00:17:05,150
writers than other. 
It's just as simple as that, 

342
00:17:05,150 --> 00:17:06,270
right? 
That's just how it comes down to

343
00:17:06,270 --> 00:17:07,790
it. 
So I I thought I view Fire and 

344
00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:11,950
Blood as the work of a stronger 
historian, someone who has maybe

345
00:17:11,950 --> 00:17:13,150
not a better handle on the 
facts. 

346
00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:14,990
In this case, they do because 
it's George. 

347
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:19,109
But someone who writes better, 
which of course they do. 

348
00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:20,550
It's George. 
Like, who's going to write in 

349
00:17:20,550 --> 00:17:23,270
this world better than George? 
I mean that's it doesn't need to

350
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:25,270
be said. 
So it's more focused than the 

351
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:27,790
World of Ice and Fire too, 
though that's I mean, I love the

352
00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:30,590
exotic locations in the World of
Ice and Fire, the touring of all

353
00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:33,510
these places. 
And I wish we had a version of 

354
00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:35,910
that in Fire and Blood style. 
Maybe one day we will. 

355
00:17:35,910 --> 00:17:40,190
But I do love the focus because 
it enables us to get really 

356
00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:43,590
detailed in ways that we 
sometimes can't. 

357
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:47,750
So yeah, The World of Ice and 
Fire, Maestri Handel, Fire and 

358
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:52,150
Blood Arch Maestri Gildain. 
In world Gil Dane gave Yandel 

359
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:54,710
permission to use his work. 
So technically Fire and Blood 

360
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:58,750
predates the world. 
Waste Fire in world even though 

361
00:17:59,270 --> 00:18:02,710
obviously in the real world when
it's the opposite. 

362
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:09,110
And George, one of the things 
we're going to get to do is take

363
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:12,630
a second look at this with a few
things in in mind that weren't 

364
00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:14,390
there before. 
One of them is House of the 

365
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:16,510
Dragon, which maybe doesn't have
a lot of direct relevance cuz 

366
00:18:16,510 --> 00:18:18,070
that's the show cannon. 
It's not the same. 

367
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,840
It will give us ideas here and 
there, things to vamp on and be 

368
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,000
like, well, maybe this was 
similar. 

369
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,400
We hadn't thought of that 
before. 

370
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,760
It might fit. 
The big one though is is Agon's 

371
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,080
dreams. 
This is not show Canon only, 

372
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,960
though I know some people see it
that way. 

373
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,760
But let's set this. 
Let's set the record straight. 

374
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,160
George himself brought up the 
idea of Agon's dreams during the

375
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,680
publication tour, the media 
tour. 

376
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,400
Not for Fire and Blood. 
For The World of Ice and Fire, 

377
00:18:46,770 --> 00:18:51,810
he brought up the idea of Agon's
dreams in public on like a 

378
00:18:51,810 --> 00:18:54,610
commercial or something, or like
a short video clip. 

379
00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:58,250
In 2014 himself. 
He brought that up. 

380
00:18:58,410 --> 00:19:00,650
So at the time, some of us 
thought in the way he praised 

381
00:19:00,650 --> 00:19:01,410
it. 
Some of us thought he was 

382
00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:03,970
responding to a fan idea. 
But that was that was wrong. 

383
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:09,530
I'm I'll take the L on that one.
He absolutely was talking about 

384
00:19:09,530 --> 00:19:13,570
it as if as as a real thing. 
Like, yes, Agon had dreams. 

385
00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:16,320
He hadn't didn't bother to 
explain exactly because again 

386
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,000
it's just a little teaser for 
the book and there's nothing in 

387
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,400
the book to the points directly 
to it. 

388
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,320
It's something we just have to 
think about that goes along it. 

389
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,880
So again, not show cannon. 
You could call it semi cannon or

390
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,640
not confirm cannon because it 
even though it comes from 

391
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,120
George, it's not in the book. 
I know some people you draw the 

392
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:33,880
line as what's actually written 
in there. 

393
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,480
What George says some people 
wouldn't go that far. 

394
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,280
I do if George says it, I count 
it. 

395
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,680
Unless he changes his mind. 
And of course that takes 

396
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,630
precedence, so. 
You know, I was going to say 

397
00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:47,110
earlier talking about the idea 
of even George doesn't 

398
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:51,430
necessarily know all the quote 
UN quote facts because he's he's

399
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:54,350
still writing it and he's sort 
of gardening it as he goes and 

400
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:57,630
he's leaving himself openings 
and hasn't made certain 

401
00:19:57,630 --> 00:20:00,830
decisions. 
And so he could definitely have 

402
00:20:00,830 --> 00:20:06,950
had an idea about the, you know,
Aegon's vision or whatever, but 

403
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:09,710
not had it fleshed out enough to
include in all his writings. 

404
00:20:10,550 --> 00:20:11,750
But it doesn't mean it wasn't 
there. 

405
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:14,710
And it's an extra benefit of his
writings coming from certain 

406
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:17,030
perspectives, because those 
perspectives might have just not

407
00:20:17,030 --> 00:20:19,470
known, even though certain 
Targaryens did. 

408
00:20:19,470 --> 00:20:21,750
And that's a way for George to 
wait to release this 

409
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:23,910
information. 
Because he's releasing 

410
00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:26,070
information through certain 
perspectives that don't include 

411
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:27,830
this knowledge. 
Yes, because he doesn't have it 

412
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:29,710
yet. 
That's so when he figures out 

413
00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:31,790
the knowledge for himself, then 
he'll find a way to get that 

414
00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:32,950
perspective out to it. 
That's a great. 

415
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:35,710
Question just to ask. 
Will Danny learn that these 

416
00:20:35,710 --> 00:20:37,990
dreams started with a gun? 
Or maybe even before him? 

417
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:42,030
But that this person? 
Who's so important in her 

418
00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:44,910
history for founding the dynasty
as it is today? 

419
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:47,670
Will she learn about that? 
I don't know how she could, but 

420
00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:49,550
there it's not that difficult 
to. 

421
00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:51,350
He could have written it down. 
She could just. 

422
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:54,150
Have a dream of her own about 
the past. 

423
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:58,050
Yeah, why not? 
Yeah, I also want to point out, 

424
00:20:58,050 --> 00:21:00,370
I think you're talking about, I 
don't know, quote UN quote, 

425
00:21:00,370 --> 00:21:03,210
current Danny Targaryen, but 
Danny the dreamer, everything 

426
00:21:03,210 --> 00:21:04,290
you just said could apply to her
too. 

427
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:05,010
Right. 
Yeah. 

428
00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:08,210
And that's Aegon's like, great, 
great, great grandmother. 

429
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:10,490
He would have heard of her, 
obviously. 

430
00:21:10,490 --> 00:21:13,170
Like, the reason they're all 
alive still is because of her. 

431
00:21:13,490 --> 00:21:16,330
And you wonder, like it's one of
the many little rabbit holes. 

432
00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:18,010
Like, what does Aegon and 
Viscendian Rainy? 

433
00:21:18,010 --> 00:21:20,370
He's like, what were they told 
about Valeria, let alone what 

434
00:21:20,370 --> 00:21:22,690
were they told about their 
great, grand, great, great 

435
00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:24,050
grandmother who had all these 
visions? 

436
00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:26,240
And they have her book. 
But she wrote all that stuff 

437
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,640
down, and that book is now lost.
But it probably wasn't lost in 

438
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,880
their time. 
They probably still had it, you 

439
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,280
know? 
So they they were raised on 

440
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,640
like, read, flipping through the
page, Talk about a book to flip 

441
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,680
through when you're a kid. 
Like, the more I think about it.

442
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,440
By the way, let me ask this, do 
we know? 

443
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,800
Did she come to be known as 
Danny the Dreamer after the 

444
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,640
fact, or was she called Danny 
the Dreamer all along? 

445
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,770
I don't know. 
That's that's a good point. 

446
00:21:52,810 --> 00:21:55,650
I I'm guessing during because 
they followed her dreams during 

447
00:21:55,650 --> 00:21:58,170
her life. 
You know I was I'm guessing they

448
00:21:58,170 --> 00:22:01,930
they left the Valyria because of
one of her dreams and she was 

449
00:22:01,930 --> 00:22:04,290
still alive for that and lived 
on after that like she was 

450
00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:06,490
fairly young. 
Like her, her dad was still the 

451
00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:11,370
Lord when they moved. 
So my thought is if she had lots

452
00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:16,550
of dreams and lots of visions 
been probably a few other had 

453
00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:19,750
come true before the The Doom, 
Absolutely. 

454
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:22,630
And it would be trust enough 
came true that that's why they 

455
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:25,950
were so worried about the Doom. 
But if she had enough to have a 

456
00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:29,270
book and to have convinced them 
before the Doom came, she might 

457
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:32,830
have had a bunch after the Doom,
also including whatever Agon's 

458
00:22:32,830 --> 00:22:34,230
vision was. 
I totally agree. 

459
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:36,950
It's a it's a very compelling 
possibility. 

460
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:38,470
What other dreams did she have? 
What other? 

461
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:41,550
And in between them was Agon, 
the next dreamer. 

462
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,840
Down the line. 
I mean, they're like we said 

463
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,040
great, great, great grandmother.
Assuming I'm remembering that 

464
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,560
part right. 
But either way, there were 

465
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,280
several generations of 
Targaryen's between Denise the 

466
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,880
Dreamer and and Agon, so other 
dreamers potentially between 

467
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,000
there as well. 
Seems not unlikely. 

468
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,720
Maybe not to the level of Denise
because she's such a famous 

469
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,760
dreamer. 
It had her and it was in her 

470
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,080
name and well. 
Dare on the dreamer kind of 

471
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,800
became dare on the drunkard, but
obviously we see how it's 

472
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:15,800
possible. 
And I can. 

473
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,400
I can come in in varying degrees
of intensity. 

474
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,440
Some dreamers have lots and lots
of dreams. 

475
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,560
Some of them might just have a 
couple here and there, and and 

476
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,400
we aren't entirely sure which is
which. 

477
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,440
But yeah, I mean, then you have 
like, I guess with series in the

478
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,640
show, or you have the example of
someone who like, maybe had one 

479
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,920
good one dream their whole life 
and chased after that 

480
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,830
forevermore, right? 
That's a really compelling idea 

481
00:23:38,830 --> 00:23:40,750
because you know how many 
Targaryens like Viscera's have 

482
00:23:40,750 --> 00:23:42,390
been like, well, they have a 
really vivid dream. 

483
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:44,790
Like, am I a dreamer? 
Yeah. 

484
00:23:44,790 --> 00:23:46,350
Was that, is that going to 
happen? 

485
00:23:46,350 --> 00:23:48,270
Or like this in the back of your
mind? 

486
00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:50,910
Like, yeah, it was just a dream.
No, actually, that might have 

487
00:23:50,910 --> 00:23:54,030
been a real vision of something.
You're like, well, every night 

488
00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:56,070
you go to bed like, am I going 
to see that again? 

489
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:58,790
Am I, am I seeing it again 
because I'm thinking about it? 

490
00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:01,230
Or is it really like, like, you 
would really? 

491
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:02,430
I don't know. 
You'd really get in your head 

492
00:24:02,430 --> 00:24:05,150
about that, I wonder? 
Spider Man will tell the 

493
00:24:05,150 --> 00:24:07,220
Targaryens. 
Everybody gets one. 

494
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:20,940
Probably Spiderman is Spyder, 
Varis Varis the Spiderman. 

495
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:26,110
Yeah, Varis the Spider Eunuch, a
lot of universities say. 

496
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:30,030
Yeah, and one fun thing about 
Agon 2 as well. 

497
00:24:30,030 --> 00:24:32,070
Not Agon 2. 
I mean Agon as well. 

498
00:24:32,350 --> 00:24:38,870
Agon one really specific. 
Is that he? 

499
00:24:39,150 --> 00:24:42,670
We mentioned that Danny 
Targaryen, I mean, Danny, Mother

500
00:24:42,670 --> 00:24:44,630
of Dragons, not Danny. 
So that's an important one. 

501
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:45,510
Sean. 
It's not Danny. 

502
00:24:45,670 --> 00:24:52,030
It's Danny's, not Danny. 
And they're similar, but not the

503
00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:53,230
same. 
They. 

504
00:24:54,350 --> 00:24:57,390
We get to look at historical 
figures and compare them, like 

505
00:24:57,390 --> 00:25:00,190
Danny and Agon, a lot of 
comparisons, but also Stannis 

506
00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:03,950
and Agon and Stannis and Danny. 
It's like a triangle of 

507
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:06,870
parallels there and we'll be 
going through a lot of those 

508
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:10,230
today and probably in future 
episodes as well. 

509
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:12,910
I just know for sure we have a 
lot of them today as as our 

510
00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:14,630
patterns going to be, we're 
going to have a little fun with 

511
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:18,470
how we do these episodes in the 
in the past, including with 

512
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:20,350
regular Val Arboretus for 
Songwise and Fire. 

513
00:25:20,550 --> 00:25:23,390
We've just had a certain amount 
we wanted to cover each time. 

514
00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:25,550
We don't have that restriction 
on us this time. 

515
00:25:25,950 --> 00:25:29,830
We're going to take as long as 
it takes to get through whatever

516
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:31,830
material we're dealing with. 
If it takes us a couple 

517
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:33,790
episodes, it does. 
If it takes US1 episode, it does

518
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:38,550
so ahead of time. 
It won't be fully clear what 

519
00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:40,550
we're covering, but it'll be 
pretty clear because we'll know 

520
00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:41,870
where we're at. 
We're going to know Okay, we're 

521
00:25:41,870 --> 00:25:44,350
right at the beginning of that 
gun's conquest now, and we got 

522
00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:47,390
through this amount of it today.
We'll be picking up where we 

523
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:50,230
left off next time, which? 
Is also to say that the episodes

524
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:54,920
will be renamed to indicate. 
What we reach So when you listen

525
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,960
to the podcast and it won't just
say fire and blood begins, it'll

526
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,240
be fire and blood through 
whatever we decide. 

527
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,600
Yes, as I said before, we're 
going up to the death of viscera

528
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720
the 1st in this reread of we. 
So we don't know how many 

529
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,400
episodes that will take. 
Given when I just said that's 

530
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,600
more than half the book, I'm I'm
not sure y'all necessarily 

531
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,640
realize that it's 14,000 words 
are in that book and 7700 of 

532
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,200
them are are where we're 
covering through. 

533
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:25,150
It's a little bit shorter than 
the book of Game of Thrones. 

534
00:26:25,150 --> 00:26:27,630
This book, it's a little over 26
hours. 

535
00:26:27,910 --> 00:26:29,590
Game of Thrones is about 28 
hours. 

536
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:33,830
We'll occasionally have an IRL 
historical diversion rooted in 

537
00:26:33,830 --> 00:26:36,270
some kind of parallels. 
Well, not as much as we did for 

538
00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:38,750
Val Arboretus for the World of 
Ice and Fire, but we do enjoy 

539
00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:40,110
doing that when it's 
appropriate. 

540
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:43,550
Most of our real world parallels
will revolve around Dragons. 

541
00:26:43,630 --> 00:26:48,430
Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
The conquest in the World of Ice

542
00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:51,310
and Fire and Fire and Blood are 
almost the same, but we've 

543
00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:52,990
never. 
Directly covered the conquest 

544
00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:54,990
when we did Valerie's for the 
World of Ice and Fire, we we 

545
00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:57,750
skipped it. 
Aegon's Rain is barely covered 

546
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:59,870
in the World of Ice and Fire and
pretty heavily covered in Fire 

547
00:26:59,870 --> 00:27:01,550
and Blood. 
So when we get to that, which is

548
00:27:01,550 --> 00:27:04,350
not too long after, we'll have 
that to talk about quite a bit 

549
00:27:04,910 --> 00:27:07,870
and of course we'll have the the
dream mixed in. 

550
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:12,110
So let's start our first quote. 
We're going to talk about what's

551
00:27:12,110 --> 00:27:14,190
the the few years before the 
conquest, how it all got 

552
00:27:14,190 --> 00:27:16,910
started, and here we go, kick it
off. 

553
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:21,310
The maesters of the Citadel who 
keep the histories of Westeros. 

554
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,400
Have used Aegon's Conquest as 
their touchstone for the past 

555
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,400
300 years. 
Births, deaths, battles, and 

556
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,480
other events are dated either 
A/C after the Conquest or BC 

557
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,800
before the Conquest. 
True scholars know that such 

558
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,160
dating is far from precise. 
Aegon's Aegon Targaryen's 

559
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,680
conquest of the Seven Kingdoms 
did not take place in a single 

560
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,150
day. 
More than two years passed 

561
00:27:49,150 --> 00:27:53,070
between Aegon's Landing and his 
Old Town coronation, and even 

562
00:27:53,070 --> 00:27:57,550
then the Conquest remained 
incomplete since Dorn remained 

563
00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:00,750
unsubdued. 
True scholars. 

564
00:28:02,390 --> 00:28:04,830
MMM, yeah, he's really drawn a 
line in the Sandy there. 

565
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:08,230
Like, you're not a real scholar 
if you think this stuff is 

566
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:10,830
simple these days. 
I like how it immediately nerds 

567
00:28:10,830 --> 00:28:13,810
out after this. 
Into the description of Doran's 

568
00:28:13,810 --> 00:28:15,530
resistance. 
It's like even then the conquest

569
00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:18,050
remained incomplete since Doran 
remains like, even the book 

570
00:28:18,050 --> 00:28:21,050
can't help but go into Rabbit. 
Like we're trying to like deal 

571
00:28:21,050 --> 00:28:22,970
with those rabbit holes. 
The book itself is like, let's 

572
00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:24,890
briefly talk about how Doran 
remained them some dude. 

573
00:28:24,890 --> 00:28:27,770
We're trying to talk about the 
beginning of the Conquest and 

574
00:28:27,770 --> 00:28:30,170
the dating, and he's like. 
Martin is really hard to 

575
00:28:30,170 --> 00:28:32,010
conquer. 
A lot of different tries were 

576
00:28:32,010 --> 00:28:34,250
made and it's like, dude, stay 
on topic. 

577
00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:35,450
No, I'm kidding. 
Don't stand. 

578
00:28:35,450 --> 00:28:37,170
Go wherever you want. 
Actually, I like it. 

579
00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:39,250
I had a couple of thoughts here 
too. 

580
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:41,410
One, I want to point out, I 
think that's the first line, the

581
00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:42,970
first couple paragraphs of the 
book. 

582
00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:47,130
Yes, right. 
And and and I also very much 

583
00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:49,130
appreciate because that's how 
that's how I approach things 

584
00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:50,770
too. 
Like first let's define what 

585
00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:53,330
we're even talking about here. 
I have a tendency to like lay 

586
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:57,010
the groundwork, you know. 
And and the fact is it a lot of 

587
00:28:57,010 --> 00:28:59,450
times historical events aren't 
so cut and dry. 

588
00:28:59,450 --> 00:29:01,970
There's not just like one 
obvious date like the difference

589
00:29:01,970 --> 00:29:06,330
between like when we declared 
independence and when the 1st 

590
00:29:06,730 --> 00:29:09,730
shots were fired and you know, 
like in the American history and

591
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:12,050
and when the Constitution was 
written and when the 1st 

592
00:29:12,050 --> 00:29:14,290
president where those are all 
years and years of. 

593
00:29:14,370 --> 00:29:16,650
Course small On a smaller scale,
I think about like in 

594
00:29:16,650 --> 00:29:18,850
relationships, like your 
romantic relationships. 

595
00:29:18,850 --> 00:29:21,610
A lot of like where you define 
when the relationship started. 

596
00:29:21,690 --> 00:29:23,290
Is it your first kiss? 
Your first date? 

597
00:29:23,290 --> 00:29:24,770
When you said your boyfriend? 
Girlfriend. 

598
00:29:24,850 --> 00:29:26,850
When is your anniversary? 
Facebook official. 

599
00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:29,770
Like a lot of people choose a 
day because they're like, well, 

600
00:29:29,770 --> 00:29:32,930
this is just maybe you could say
that say, but this other month 

601
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:34,050
is better for us. 
So let's choose. 

602
00:29:34,050 --> 00:29:35,370
This is our anniversary. 
So yeah. 

603
00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:38,850
It happens all the time. 
When Agon changed his status to 

604
00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:41,690
King of Westeros on Facebook, 
that was That's what it was. 

605
00:29:43,810 --> 00:29:51,970
It's like started rolling 
Westeros AC1 parentheses today. 

606
00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:58,330
Yeah, you know, Another thought 
I had was, I know this quote 

607
00:29:58,330 --> 00:30:01,950
pretty well and several others. 
As I was reading through this, I

608
00:30:01,950 --> 00:30:04,270
was, I was pretty familiar with 
it because we've used so many of

609
00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:05,910
these quotes and our other 
episodes. 

610
00:30:05,910 --> 00:30:08,910
Yeah, many, many times. 
I was recognizing very exact 

611
00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:10,390
lines that. 
Were different context. 

612
00:30:10,390 --> 00:30:13,470
I think the episode I said that 
I'll list the episodes that are 

613
00:30:13,550 --> 00:30:16,030
good rabbit holes to follow if 
you want to stay immersed at the

614
00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:18,390
end of the episode. 
One that I need to stay right 

615
00:30:18,390 --> 00:30:20,830
from the beginning is before the
Dragons. 

616
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:23,790
We have one called before the 
Dragons and it really goes 

617
00:30:23,790 --> 00:30:26,350
through what was going on in 
each of the various kingdoms 

618
00:30:26,550 --> 00:30:28,990
right before the conquest. 
So that's super relevant to this

619
00:30:28,990 --> 00:30:32,220
one and I'm trying to avoid. 
Overlap on that, but of course 

620
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:33,340
there'll be a little bit, but 
not too much. 

621
00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:37,780
So that's a great one to go to 
if you wanna really get even 

622
00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:40,500
more basis for what was going on
in this timeline. 

623
00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:44,380
Not only do they argue does the 
book argue with itself over the 

624
00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:48,540
definition of conquest, but it 
also points out the dating thing

625
00:30:48,540 --> 00:30:52,820
like it says true scholars. 
Of course, no such dating is far

626
00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:56,710
from precise. 
But this really factors into 

627
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:57,550
what you were just saying of 
Shay. 

628
00:30:57,550 --> 00:30:58,910
This is dating is far from 
precise. 

629
00:30:58,910 --> 00:31:00,190
Like dating. 
Like, when does your 

630
00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:01,910
relationship to begin? 
Yeah, no other. 

631
00:31:01,910 --> 00:31:02,910
Ahaha. 
Yeah. 

632
00:31:02,910 --> 00:31:05,790
Anyway, so there's the 
discussion of a C versus 

633
00:31:05,790 --> 00:31:11,070
AL&ALAL&BC. 
So it's a C Agon's conquest, AL 

634
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:14,830
Agon's landing and BC before the
conquest. 

635
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:18,750
BC is simple enough because it's
all the time before that. 

636
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:22,510
But even that is, even with that
simplicity, It's like, well, 

637
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:27,140
which is which? 
Aegon's a C&AL implies there's a

638
00:31:27,180 --> 00:31:30,060
BC and a BL. 
Yeah, there was before the 

639
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:30,740
landing. 
Yeah. 

640
00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:35,700
So officially the conquest is 
dated to have begun when he 

641
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,740
knelt at the Starry Sept and was
crowned by the High Septon. 

642
00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:43,420
But within the family, they also
celebrate the day he set foot on

643
00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:50,380
Westeros with intent to conquer.
Very similar to Henry or. 

644
00:31:50,970 --> 00:31:54,290
William the Conqueror not Henry 
William the Conqueror who a lot 

645
00:31:54,290 --> 00:32:00,010
of Agon is based off of. 
And he landed and did a similar 

646
00:32:00,010 --> 00:32:03,050
thing of of, you know, first 
time landing on England and 

647
00:32:03,170 --> 00:32:09,170
beginning his conquest there. 
Even Can I say even the way you 

648
00:32:09,170 --> 00:32:14,580
phrased that when he landed on 
the Westeros continent with the 

649
00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:17,260
intent of conquest, because he 
had landed there before too, 

650
00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:19,980
without necessarily. 
He may have even had the intent 

651
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:23,380
in conquest in those times, but 
had named hadn't announced it 

652
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:25,500
yet. 
So there's still difficulties 

653
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:27,460
and really exactly same with the
data. 

654
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:29,300
Yeah, like, and I really wonder 
about that. 

655
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:32,660
When did the idea come to him? 
When was it, like, all right, 

656
00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:34,900
I'm going to conquer Westeros? 
When did he decide? 

657
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:37,390
When was it just like? 
You know, I could do that or 

658
00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:39,710
maybe I could do that. 
When was it like, I'm going to 

659
00:32:39,710 --> 00:32:42,070
do that? 
When he had a dream. 

660
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:43,630
Yeah, it might have been the 
dream. 

661
00:32:43,630 --> 00:32:48,350
That's a good question. 
What came first, his ambition or

662
00:32:48,350 --> 00:32:51,870
his dream? 
Was he an ambitious guy that 

663
00:32:52,030 --> 00:32:53,910
realized it was all there? 
And then he had this dream and 

664
00:32:53,910 --> 00:32:55,470
he's like, now I also have a 
justification. 

665
00:32:55,470 --> 00:32:58,150
Or was it a little of both? 
Was it sort of coming, coming on

666
00:32:58,150 --> 00:33:00,430
at the same time? 
Well, you ran a poll, right? 

667
00:33:00,430 --> 00:33:02,150
Is. 
He I did run a poll on our 

668
00:33:02,150 --> 00:33:04,390
YouTube page and most people 
think the dream came first. 

669
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:06,840
It's hard to say. 
They came with the exact same 

670
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,040
time. 
I didn't leave an option for 

671
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,480
both because I started to say 
they would both be at the exact 

672
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,920
same time. 
So I wanted people to decide. 

673
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,360
It's too easy to say both. 
And yeah, it's it's a really 

674
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,280
compelling question. 
Like, was he, was he when he was

675
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,720
a teenager? 
Was it an idea that within his 

676
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,000
family prior, Like if other 
people had this dream, were they

677
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,120
like, yeah, but we just can't do
it. 

678
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,000
Like we don't have the ability 
means to pull it off. 

679
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,760
Aagon may have realized finally 
the conditions were there. 

680
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,760
Or maybe he's the one that 
finally just had the chutzpah 

681
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,060
the the strength. 
The desire, the drive, the 

682
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:42,420
bravery to actually do it. 
Or even maybe the, I don't know 

683
00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:45,140
what we're to use intellect, 
maybe to put a plan together. 

684
00:33:45,340 --> 00:33:49,060
The realization that the the the
gathering of knowledge of like, 

685
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:50,700
okay, these are the different 
kingdoms. 

686
00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:52,660
These are their leaders. 
This is what they need. 

687
00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:55,420
Here's where I should start. 
This is what I can expect from 

688
00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:57,300
the different ones. 
He might have, like, properly 

689
00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:02,030
plotted it all out beyond, just 
like let's attack everyone with 

690
00:34:02,030 --> 00:34:03,950
Dragons. 
He might have thought about how 

691
00:34:03,950 --> 00:34:07,110
the politics will play out, how 
religion will be a factor, that 

692
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:09,429
the distances that people need 
to travel. 

693
00:34:09,429 --> 00:34:12,350
You know, he might have had a 
logistical mind to realize how 

694
00:34:12,350 --> 00:34:13,710
to enact this plan. 
You're right. 

695
00:34:13,710 --> 00:34:17,469
And we're going to see echoes of
how that might have been part of

696
00:34:17,469 --> 00:34:19,190
his planning as we deal with 
these individual Kingdom. 

697
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:20,630
Because you're right, the 
political situation is very 

698
00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:25,350
interesting, the timing is very 
interesting and it might have 

699
00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:27,550
been like a Rhagar thing, like 
Rhagar. 

700
00:34:28,420 --> 00:34:31,340
Was like, seems I must be a 
warrior and he his whole life 

701
00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:33,179
changed like his life arc 
change. 

702
00:34:33,179 --> 00:34:34,860
He decided he put himself on a 
different path because he 

703
00:34:34,860 --> 00:34:38,460
thought he was some sort of 
prophetic chosen one. 

704
00:34:38,460 --> 00:34:40,420
And then later he's like, 
actually it's my kid. 

705
00:34:40,860 --> 00:34:42,580
All right well that changes 
things. 

706
00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:47,100
Like Aegon probably didn't think
he was going to be the one to 

707
00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:49,580
face the coming darkness, 
because it seems like his dream,

708
00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:53,540
the way it's framed it was 
coming, but it it was in the 

709
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:57,660
future. 
And so his dream might have been

710
00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:59,660
more like, get this whole ball 
rolling. 

711
00:34:59,660 --> 00:35:01,740
Not, you're not going to be the 
guy to face it, but you're a 

712
00:35:01,740 --> 00:35:06,180
crucial starting point. 
So is that what he dreamt, or 

713
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:08,180
did he think that he was going 
to be the one to also do it? 

714
00:35:08,180 --> 00:35:09,620
I don't think his actions don't 
really. 

715
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:12,340
His life actions don't really 
indicate he's the one who 

716
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:14,540
thought he would be the one to 
face that winter. 

717
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:17,620
Like he barely like he only went
to Winterfell once. 

718
00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:20,340
He didn't go to the Wall even 
like personally, So it doesn't 

719
00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:22,740
really line up that way. 
So I think we have to assume the

720
00:35:22,740 --> 00:35:24,920
dream. 
Told him it was coming, but 

721
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,000
maybe somehow he was able to 
perceive that it would be a 

722
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,960
while from now. 
You just started a new thought 

723
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,600
of me. 
I was already thinking about the

724
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,760
potential Rhagar. 
Parallel, right? 

725
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,720
Yeah, but then you made me start
thinking about this. 

726
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,840
Stand is parallel. 
He made a similar shift. 

727
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,240
He was sort of content in his 
life station, but suddenly feel 

728
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:43,680
like, no, I have to do something
bigger. 

729
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,240
And that also made me think 
well, but he didn't have a 

730
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:48,640
dream. 
Melisandre. 

731
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,680
Someone else is telling him this
is your destiny. 

732
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,200
Maybe that happened with a gone 
too. 

733
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,460
Maybe some. 
Maybe Vicinia had a dream and 

734
00:35:54,460 --> 00:35:56,580
told him this is what you need 
to do and he didn't go to the 

735
00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:58,420
wall, but who did go to the 
wall? 

736
00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:03,700
Didn't one of his sisters fly to
the wall and that wasn't able 

737
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:05,860
to? 
No, that was, that was Alison. 

738
00:36:05,860 --> 00:36:07,380
That was a generation later. 
That was a few. 

739
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:08,980
Generations later, but yeah, but
that did happen. 

740
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:10,260
And that's really interesting. 
Yeah. 

741
00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:11,660
So you're, I mean, you're not 
wrong. 

742
00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:14,820
That example still fits. 
Not quite as tightly, but it's 

743
00:36:14,860 --> 00:36:16,580
it's still really good. 
Yeah, and that's a good point. 

744
00:36:17,540 --> 00:36:20,300
And maybe Agon had the dream, 
but Vicinia interpreted like he 

745
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:22,870
explained what happened. 
And then she's like, oh, that's 

746
00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:25,950
what this means, you know, He's 
like, oh, like something like 

747
00:36:25,950 --> 00:36:27,470
that, like, so he lays the dream
out. 

748
00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:29,710
Other people help him interpret 
it and and encourage him a 

749
00:36:29,710 --> 00:36:31,910
certain way, which I and I 
You're totally right, Shawn. 

750
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:35,030
Be like, yeah, Melisandre is the
one that's pushing Stannis and 

751
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:36,950
we should use that as a 
potential model for what might 

752
00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:39,310
happen. 
Yeah, maybe Agon was encouraged 

753
00:36:39,310 --> 00:36:43,750
by Vasenya Rainey, someone else 
or East Baratheon, other people,

754
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:46,390
his maester. 
I don't know, You know. 

755
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:48,420
So it might have been pushing 
Rhagar too. 

756
00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:51,780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
And it could be from within the 

757
00:36:51,780 --> 00:36:53,300
dreams, it could be from someone
in person. 

758
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:55,020
It could be multiple, multiple 
individuals. 

759
00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:01,860
It's interesting too, that with 
A/C and AL and BC, we have the 

760
00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:04,860
same thing in real life and with
almost the same letters. 

761
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:07,300
There's also BC, right? 
It's the same. 

762
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:09,460
It's not before the conquest, 
It's before Christ. 

763
00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:13,740
And AD is an odominy right now. 
That's falling out of favor. 

764
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:16,740
For a couple of reasons. 
You don't see BC and AD nearly 

765
00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:19,540
as much. 
One reason is modern historians 

766
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:21,500
are trying to do something 
that's not religious. 

767
00:37:22,260 --> 00:37:28,540
It's like removing Christ from 
the equation, because not that 

768
00:37:28,540 --> 00:37:30,900
they're denying that there was a
Christ, but obviously there's 

769
00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:33,970
lots of. 
Details about that being's life 

770
00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:36,410
that are disputed. 
Yeah, that's why they switched 

771
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:39,610
to the Common Era. 
Yeah, so common era of the human

772
00:37:40,050 --> 00:37:41,730
population. 
They have no idea of his 

773
00:37:41,730 --> 00:37:43,410
existence. 
Why are they basing their years?

774
00:37:43,410 --> 00:37:48,210
Around exactly so. 
And even accepting that Jesus 

775
00:37:48,210 --> 00:37:50,530
was a person, which I certainly 
do, there's not much doubt that 

776
00:37:50,530 --> 00:37:53,570
he lived. 
We don't know when he was born, 

777
00:37:53,890 --> 00:37:55,850
like we don't actually know his 
birth date. 

778
00:37:57,250 --> 00:38:00,650
Like people have had fun with 
it, the way we read into. 

779
00:38:01,550 --> 00:38:03,270
A Song of Ice and Fire, looking 
at details. 

780
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:05,950
People have done that with the 
Bibles like, well, this the red,

781
00:38:06,190 --> 00:38:09,350
the star that was in the sky 
when Jesus was born. 

782
00:38:09,350 --> 00:38:11,750
Well, you can kind of 
extrapolate a little something 

783
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:15,470
from that based on, like 
celestial events like that were 

784
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:17,630
recorded in ancient times. 
People just like, oh, there's 

785
00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:20,190
another star going across. 
OK, no, that people would write 

786
00:38:20,190 --> 00:38:22,590
that down and like, oh, the star
on this day. 

787
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:25,150
So you can kind of tell, like, 
it helps narrow down like what 

788
00:38:25,150 --> 00:38:26,190
season it was and things like 
that. 

789
00:38:26,190 --> 00:38:27,990
You don't get a precise date, 
but that's the point, is they 

790
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:29,710
don't know exactly. 
So yeah. 

791
00:38:30,190 --> 00:38:33,190
And now we have a whole new BC 
in modern times, which is before

792
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:39,470
COVID, which I say like when I 
put pieced it together, pieced 

793
00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:40,750
it together as if it was some 
trick. 

794
00:38:40,750 --> 00:38:42,230
Like how long ago was fire and 
blood? 

795
00:38:42,230 --> 00:38:44,190
Five years ago, right? 
Almost five years ago. 

796
00:38:44,350 --> 00:38:48,590
It seems like longer because of 
COVID, that's why. 

797
00:38:48,590 --> 00:38:51,790
It's not because of anything 
within the fandom that makes it 

798
00:38:51,790 --> 00:38:53,790
seem longer. 
It's just because of COVID. 

799
00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:57,060
So. 
Yeah, So something we're gonna 

800
00:38:57,060 --> 00:38:59,860
ask ourselves a lot about with 
Egg On and his sisters, his 

801
00:38:59,860 --> 00:39:02,340
retinue, all people around him 
is, did they see that coming 

802
00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:03,980
either because of dreams or did 
they predict it? 

803
00:39:03,980 --> 00:39:07,020
Or did they predict it because 
they they saw they understood 

804
00:39:07,020 --> 00:39:08,620
the personalities they're 
dealing with? 

805
00:39:08,620 --> 00:39:12,340
In other words, someone like 
Heron, whore, black Heron or 

806
00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:15,460
Argo, like the arrogant. 
Did they predict how some of 

807
00:39:15,460 --> 00:39:18,420
these? 
Kings and Queens would behave 

808
00:39:18,420 --> 00:39:20,220
based on what they were doing 
and did they use that to their 

809
00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:22,220
advantage. 
It's a it's going to be a common

810
00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:25,740
question and I encourage you all
to weigh in with your thoughts 

811
00:39:25,740 --> 00:39:29,820
and takes and if some of them 
will, will shout out. 

812
00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:33,700
So it takes a little while for 
the conquest to get started, 

813
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:35,580
right? 
They can can't just wake up and 

814
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:39,100
be like, well, we've got 
Dragons, we've got some money, 

815
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:42,140
let's do it. 
No, it doesn't quite work that 

816
00:39:42,140 --> 00:39:44,500
way. 
They had to build up, you know. 

817
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:48,670
Worry about logistics and get it
all started. 

818
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:51,750
And the book of course details 
some some back story before that

819
00:39:51,750 --> 00:39:53,750
as well. 
It goes into the Targaryen 

820
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:56,670
history family before the Doom, 
The ancestors. 

821
00:39:56,670 --> 00:39:58,390
Those ancestors are topic I'd 
love to cover. 

822
00:39:58,430 --> 00:40:00,110
We've talked about it for a 
while doing that. 

823
00:40:00,550 --> 00:40:02,670
There's not a lot there, but 
it's enough for us to do an 

824
00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:07,150
episode on for sure. 
Anar, Danny's Gaming, Damien, 

825
00:40:07,230 --> 00:40:09,910
all these cool names. 
It sounds fun. 

826
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:11,990
It's even there's a little bit 
about Valeria in there. 

827
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:15,910
I mean, as I say, it's not a 
lot, but. 

828
00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:18,820
Information on those topics is 
pretty scant in the 1st place. 

829
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:22,460
One thing that's really neat is 
the Dragons. 

830
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:25,540
Of course that's always neat 
before and after leaving Vayria.

831
00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:28,980
As we know, Vega and Meraxis 
were born in Westeros, Valerian 

832
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:31,740
was not. 
And I think there's a lot of 

833
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:35,020
questions about Valerian and a 
lot of almost answers. 

834
00:40:35,020 --> 00:40:37,740
I think Valerian is one of the 
reasons why the conquest was 

835
00:40:37,740 --> 00:40:40,620
able to happen. 
I think prior Targaryen's could 

836
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,730
have looked at their options for
maybe conquering Westeros, if 

837
00:40:44,730 --> 00:40:46,730
they even had the idea in the 
1st place. 

838
00:40:47,570 --> 00:40:50,450
And then like yeah, we've only 
got like 1000 troops. 

839
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:54,050
Remember what Damon said? 
Damon Targaryen in House of the 

840
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:55,770
Dragon. 
It's a direct quote from the 

841
00:40:55,770 --> 00:40:57,730
book, so that's why I can quote 
the show as well. 

842
00:40:57,730 --> 00:41:01,930
When he when they're analyzing 
their current situation vis A 

843
00:41:01,930 --> 00:41:05,970
vis their army, right after the 
Green sees the throne, Damon 

844
00:41:05,970 --> 00:41:09,730
says, well, on dragon sound 
we've got about 300 men in arms,

845
00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:12,650
you know, 100 crossbow men, 20 
Knights. 

846
00:41:13,570 --> 00:41:17,930
It's well enough to fortify this
castle and protect it, but as an

847
00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:20,170
instrument of conquest, it 
leaves much to be desired. 

848
00:41:21,050 --> 00:41:22,890
And he's saying that's including
the Dragons. 

849
00:41:22,890 --> 00:41:25,250
Now, of course, in his case, 
their foes have Dragons too, so 

850
00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:28,610
it's not quite as simple. 
Still, we've talked about this a

851
00:41:28,610 --> 00:41:31,810
lot of times in Modern Warfare, 
right, Sean, you can't conquer 

852
00:41:31,810 --> 00:41:34,650
territory was just an Air Force.
You need those ground troops. 

853
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:37,150
So, like, they got the Air Force
covered and no one else even has

854
00:41:37,150 --> 00:41:38,470
one. 
They've got a Navy too. 

855
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:41,070
They have valerian. 
But this ground troops mean a 

856
00:41:41,070 --> 00:41:42,070
lot. 
You got to have that and they 

857
00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:43,910
didn't have that. 
And a lot of times you can 

858
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:47,710
defeat an enemy, right? 
They can fly a dragon over High 

859
00:41:47,710 --> 00:41:49,910
Garden, burn it to the ground, 
Okay. 

860
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:52,710
And now High Garden is yours. 
Good job. 

861
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:54,070
Like what is it you're trying to
conquer? 

862
00:41:54,070 --> 00:41:56,030
What do you you can't rule over 
ashes, right? 

863
00:41:56,030 --> 00:41:59,110
So I I was even thinking that a 
little bit too about the 

864
00:41:59,470 --> 00:42:01,960
especially because. 
We get some pretty detailed 

865
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,520
battle descriptions right 
compared to a lot of battle 

866
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,240
descriptions that elsewise in 
George's riding it's just like 

867
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,600
this happened, this this battle 
was won. 

868
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,560
We get some details about like 
how the army's met and flanking 

869
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,080
on the field of fire and stuff 
like that. 

870
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,520
And I was just thinking about 
the idea that, you know when 

871
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,920
they have like 30,000 or 50,000 
troops amass, even if the dragon

872
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,000
just flying back and forth 
strafing. 

873
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:27,470
Eventually a random arrow is 
going to hit the rider like 

874
00:42:27,550 --> 00:42:28,670
that. 
Like happened, right? 

875
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:33,230
And and eventually are the 
Dragons just infinitely? 

876
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:34,950
Do they ever get tired? 
You need. 

877
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:36,830
To sleep? 
Do they run out of fire breath 

878
00:42:36,830 --> 00:42:39,830
like even if they kill 10/20/30 
thousand troops? 

879
00:42:40,190 --> 00:42:42,750
Finally, the dragon is tired, 
and Dragon Ryer took an arrow, 

880
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:45,510
and it's so 20,000 more troops, 
you know so. 

881
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:49,180
Even with the Dragons it blurry.
Might change the equation 

882
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:50,500
though, right? 
Yeah, yeah, Cuz blurry. 

883
00:42:50,540 --> 00:42:53,020
Is he might be big enough that 
you can't hit right? 

884
00:42:53,020 --> 00:42:55,660
You can't hit the dragon rider 
cuz Blarion's body is too big 

885
00:42:55,660 --> 00:42:58,340
underneath him. 
Blurion's dragon fire is so 

886
00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:01,460
powerful he can do it from 
higher up where he can't be hit.

887
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:04,420
He doesn't get as tired, so he 
can kill more and more troops at

888
00:43:04,420 --> 00:43:07,240
once. 
Even still, you kill 50,000 

889
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:08,720
troops and you burn down high 
guard. 

890
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,800
And then why are you even trying
to conquer this land? 

891
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,160
There's nothing left to have. 
So that's. 

892
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,000
I mean, gotta be. 
You're describing what happened 

893
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,520
in Dorne. 
They're like, no, you didn't 

894
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,400
beat us. 
You destroyed our castle. 

895
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,880
But we're not surrendering. 
That's not defeat. 

896
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,360
Now, in what? 
Most of Westeros, that is 

897
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,600
defeat. 
They're like, OK, you won. 

898
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,520
So we submit to the greater 
power. 

899
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,800
It's kind of it's almost like 
that's their program to do that.

900
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,490
OK, you won. 
So you're in charge. 

901
00:43:31,610 --> 00:43:34,010
Doran doesn't work. 
It's not programmed that way. 

902
00:43:34,050 --> 00:43:38,530
Like that's not how it works. 
So, yeah, so I think Valerian is

903
00:43:38,530 --> 00:43:40,530
pretty critical to the whole 
picture here. 

904
00:43:40,530 --> 00:43:42,450
You're like, why didn't the 
Targaryen to this earlier? 

905
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:45,010
There was a lot of reasons why 
they might not have just 

906
00:43:45,010 --> 00:43:47,210
personality wise and not 
thinking they could do it. 

907
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:48,410
Maybe they didn't have the 
motivation. 

908
00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:49,690
Maybe they didn't have the 
dreams. 

909
00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:52,890
Maybe that that was more crucial
than we think for getting a gone

910
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:53,930
started. 
Yeah, I mean, I think. 

911
00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:55,930
That's a good point. 
Not just a dream part, but just.

912
00:43:56,710 --> 00:44:01,270
How many I It's like once in a 
generation type of talent and 

913
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:03,790
like ambition, right? 
Yeah, the but the combination of

914
00:44:03,790 --> 00:44:04,590
all. 
Yeah. 

915
00:44:04,670 --> 00:44:09,590
I don't think that it's unusual 
for people, for many, for many 

916
00:44:09,590 --> 00:44:14,310
generations to be like, I have a
castle, I have a great life. 

917
00:44:14,590 --> 00:44:17,590
Why do I need more? 
Why do I want to try to conquer 

918
00:44:17,590 --> 00:44:19,950
this entire continent? 
Like, yeah, that's a lot of 

919
00:44:19,950 --> 00:44:20,990
work. 
And then I'm have to rule it 

920
00:44:20,990 --> 00:44:23,070
all. 
Like you're never going to have 

921
00:44:23,070 --> 00:44:26,150
a break like Aegon did. 
He spent most of his reign, 

922
00:44:26,420 --> 00:44:29,420
which was long like going from 
castle to castle. 

923
00:44:29,420 --> 00:44:31,620
Just like trying to get 
everybody used to this new state

924
00:44:31,620 --> 00:44:34,260
of affairs and being like don't 
remember and show and reminding 

925
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:36,500
them of what's hold it, backing 
it all up. 

926
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:38,540
That gigantic dragon. 
Yeah, you you cut. 

927
00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:40,100
You turn on me. 
You got to face this thing. 

928
00:44:40,140 --> 00:44:43,380
And a certain personality type 
would love that would eat it up 

929
00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:45,660
would it wouldn't wouldn't be 
difficult like it would be 

930
00:44:45,660 --> 00:44:48,100
difficult but challenging in a 
good way for them like. 

931
00:44:48,540 --> 00:44:51,700
But you have to want to do that 
in order to actually make it 

932
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:52,620
happen. 
Yeah. 

933
00:44:53,260 --> 00:44:56,060
So I do think I probably had a 
some. 

934
00:44:56,990 --> 00:44:59,510
In terms of the ambition versus 
the dream, I feel like he had to

935
00:44:59,510 --> 00:45:01,950
have the core of ambition in 
there. 

936
00:45:01,950 --> 00:45:12,790
The dreams not enough. 
I guess my question would be, I,

937
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:14,910
I mean we'll get into this a 
little bit later, but like you 

938
00:45:14,910 --> 00:45:18,150
know with a gone turning to 
Essos first, right? 

939
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:04,350
I agree. 
Like the dream is not enough. 

940
00:45:04,350 --> 00:45:06,550
You're totally right. 
Like that's People don't act on 

941
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:07,510
dreams alone. 
Like we. 

942
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:10,150
If all of us acted on all our 
dreams, we'd all have. 

943
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:11,350
I don't know. 
We'd all have accomplished a. 

944
00:45:18,540 --> 00:45:21,700
The question is whether he'd had
that dream before he turned to 

945
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:24,580
Essos or if that is what changed
his perspective. 

946
00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:28,580
Cuz I feel like that speaks to 
him just kind of having war on 

947
00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:31,660
the brain. 
It may have also shown him or 

948
00:45:31,660 --> 00:45:36,180
like really nailed down what 
Valerian was capable of. 

949
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:39,740
Like Valerian, they were like, 
damn, that dragon is huge, But 

950
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:44,350
until you send him into battle, 
you don't exactly know. 

951
00:45:44,350 --> 00:45:48,070
You're not like Wow, that's just
he incinerated an entire ship or

952
00:45:48,070 --> 00:45:50,750
an entire fleet in seconds. 
And it's just like, until you 

953
00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:53,750
see that actually happen even as
his rider. 

954
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:57,710
Like the sheer power that you 
must feel being able to do that 

955
00:45:57,870 --> 00:46:01,830
versus just thinking you can do 
it, like actually setting all 

956
00:46:01,830 --> 00:46:05,670
these all these ships on fire 
and the the what would that do? 

957
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:09,030
How would that go to your head? 
Be like, I can, I'm the king of 

958
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:10,390
the world. 
You know. 

959
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:13,350
Like no one can do this. 
No one can get on top of this 

960
00:46:13,350 --> 00:46:14,710
dragon and command it to do 
this. 

961
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:17,950
But me, they, I am superior to 
everyone. 

962
00:46:17,950 --> 00:46:19,670
You know, like that's kind of 
stuff that might pop in your 

963
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:21,590
head if you're literally in that
position. 

964
00:46:23,110 --> 00:46:25,710
I got a couple thoughts stirred 
in me right now just and we've 

965
00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:28,070
made the parallel to drags the 
nuclear weapons a lot and 

966
00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:31,110
Oppenheimer just came out 
recently just scientists that 

967
00:46:31,110 --> 00:46:33,750
had this theoretical idea of the
type of bomb you can make by 

968
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:36,110
splitting an atom. 
It was different till they 

969
00:46:36,110 --> 00:46:38,150
actually did it till they 
actually sold that bomb. 

970
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:41,230
That was a real significant 
difference, the reality of it 

971
00:46:41,230 --> 00:46:46,650
versus the idea of it and. 
Also just thinking about your 

972
00:46:46,650 --> 00:46:49,250
point of share that you had to 
have this once in a generation 

973
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:52,930
moment of having someone with 
both the ambition and the dream 

974
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:56,450
and the Balerian and I think 
even beyond that you still 

975
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:59,120
needed to have. 
The the, the support of the 

976
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,480
people around him. 
He had to have his sisters and 

977
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:02,640
air Dragons and. 
Right. 

978
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,040
So you needed to have, you know,
even someone that has a lot of 

979
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,600
drive and ambition sometimes. 
If the people around them aren't

980
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,080
helping out, they still can't 
quite or never mind working 

981
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,840
against them or torn with other 
obligations. 

982
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,120
What if he did still have to, 
like, pay some tribute to 

983
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,280
malaria back home or something 
like that? 

984
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,120
But he had the combination of 
the dream, the Dragons, the 

985
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:26,560
ambition, the support, the the 
the the focus, et cetera. 

986
00:47:27,090 --> 00:47:32,450
So 4 unnamed Dragons died before
Valerian that had come over from

987
00:47:32,770 --> 00:47:38,370
Valeria, and clearly those 
Dragons didn't inspire a 

988
00:47:38,370 --> 00:47:40,610
conquest. 
Obviously we've as we've 

989
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:44,770
hammered away at the a lot of 
things have to align for that. 

990
00:47:45,050 --> 00:47:47,570
But I wonder like, why didn't 
Vesenia claim Valerian? 

991
00:47:47,570 --> 00:47:50,250
Vesenia's only two years older 
than Aegon, So it's not like 

992
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,120
there's this big gap of time 
where we say, Oh well, the rider

993
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,960
Balerian died in the meantime 
and and that's why she didn't 

994
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,680
have access to to Vagar. 
But it does make sense that she 

995
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,440
claimed Vagar. 
Very young, maybe, on the other 

996
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,240
hand. 
Or that she had a dream that her

997
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:04,520
brother was supposed to get 
Balerian. 

998
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:12,720
Never know. 
I mean, I just want to throw 

999
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:05,840
out. 
Yeah, but it is. 

1000
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,200
It's a curiosity. 
There's some pretty 

1001
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,120
straightforward answers, but it 
could. 

1002
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,120
It definitely veers into some 
interesting territory. 

1003
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,760
There's possible that tonight 
you just have a. 

1004
00:48:15,130 --> 00:48:17,850
Better bond with a you're just 
like you just vibe with that 

1005
00:48:17,850 --> 00:48:19,410
dragon. 
You like the colors. 

1006
00:48:19,410 --> 00:48:23,210
You like the sometimes there's 
just It's just that simple. 

1007
00:48:23,210 --> 00:48:24,490
I don't know that you like one 
more. 

1008
00:48:24,490 --> 00:48:25,450
That's a good point. 
Yeah. 

1009
00:48:25,450 --> 00:48:29,410
I mean, like Vasceris from House
of the Dragon. 

1010
00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:33,100
He bonded with Valerian but 
wasn't really into riding. 

1011
00:48:33,100 --> 00:48:35,220
And then his dragon died and he 
didn't really want to get 

1012
00:48:35,220 --> 00:48:36,660
another one. 
He's like, yeah, I don't need 

1013
00:48:36,660 --> 00:48:38,660
another dragon. 
He wasn't really into Dragons in

1014
00:48:38,660 --> 00:48:42,500
general, you know. 
You know I love Jakin. 

1015
00:48:43,220 --> 00:48:45,340
Your cat. 
Your cat Jakin, to be clear. 

1016
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:48,100
And he didn't get casting over 
till a couple years later. 

1017
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:50,220
But I still bonded with casting 
over more than Jakins. 

1018
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:52,100
Yeah, yeah. 
You know, I think it is true 

1019
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:55,260
that, you know, Vicenia might 
have just seen Vega. 

1020
00:48:55,340 --> 00:48:58,220
I might have seen the Dragons 
available to her and been like 

1021
00:48:58,740 --> 00:49:01,380
this is the one for me. 
Those are pretty similar color 

1022
00:49:01,380 --> 00:49:03,340
pairings too, Jake and our cat 
is black. 

1023
00:49:03,420 --> 00:49:06,500
Yeah, I'm guessing it was Gray, 
like a Vigor. 

1024
00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:11,940
Yeah, now we know that. 
Those four Dragons. 

1025
00:49:11,940 --> 00:49:15,660
It was a compelling theory for a
while that maybe there was a 

1026
00:49:15,660 --> 00:49:18,180
miniature Dance of the Dragons 
amongst the Targarians. 

1027
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:22,460
Which would explain why in Aegon
and Vissenia and Rainey this 

1028
00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:25,100
time, there weren't any other 
branches of the house. 

1029
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:30,150
There weren't, like when Anar, 
the Exile, moved House Targaryen

1030
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:34,990
to Dragonstone. 
It goes through this list of his

1031
00:49:35,230 --> 00:49:40,470
siblings, children, kin, 
household slaves, Dragons. 

1032
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:42,150
So, like, you can skip those 
last few because they're not 

1033
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:44,430
family members, but it was a big
family, he said. 

1034
00:49:44,430 --> 00:49:47,030
It's cousins, Siblings. 
Dragons are family, OK? 

1035
00:49:47,110 --> 00:49:49,150
I guess they are when you're 
Targaryen, yeah, but not the 

1036
00:49:49,150 --> 00:49:50,950
kind of family I'm speaking 
about here. 

1037
00:49:51,070 --> 00:49:54,490
I'm talking about human family. 
So they just there were fewer of

1038
00:49:54,490 --> 00:49:55,530
them. 
So it was it was a theory. 

1039
00:49:55,530 --> 00:49:56,610
You're. 
Talking about family you can 

1040
00:49:56,610 --> 00:49:58,610
have sex with. 
We're talking about Targaryen 

1041
00:49:58,610 --> 00:50:00,250
family, right? 
You can't bang it. 

1042
00:50:00,330 --> 00:50:09,570
Well, can you actually, And so 
they, we know that they didn't 

1043
00:50:09,570 --> 00:50:11,930
have any sort of internal 
struggle that involved Dragons 

1044
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:14,370
fighting each other. 
Maybe Targaryens fought each 

1045
00:50:14,370 --> 00:50:16,650
other with swords and daggers 
and or poisoned each other. 

1046
00:50:16,650 --> 00:50:18,690
We don't know about that. 
It's entirely possible because 

1047
00:50:18,690 --> 00:50:23,500
there's some some oddities in 
the way these families, the way 

1048
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,660
it passed down, right? 
There are a lot of people who 

1049
00:50:25,660 --> 00:50:29,540
just didn't have kids. 
And you have brother inheriting 

1050
00:50:29,540 --> 00:50:32,420
from brother inheriting from 
brother, things like that, which

1051
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:34,860
is, you know, it doesn't usually
follow that pattern. 

1052
00:50:34,860 --> 00:50:39,500
That's usually how it goes when 
you're not having a lot of kids 

1053
00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:41,860
or when there's war when people 
have died first. 

1054
00:50:42,580 --> 00:50:44,820
So yeah, we're, it's interesting
to wonder about that. 

1055
00:50:45,020 --> 00:50:47,420
And Valerian clearly wasn't 
ridden by their father either. 

1056
00:50:48,020 --> 00:50:53,880
Aryan Targaryen, Damon Aegon and
and Vicenia and Rainey's his 

1057
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:59,040
father because Aegon had 
Valerian well before he became 

1058
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,800
Lord as far as we can tell. 
So good questions there, 

1059
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,880
unknowns that one day we might 
get more information on. 

1060
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,880
It's interesting how few Dragons
they had. 

1061
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,720
Remember that they were a low 
ranked Dragon Lord family and 

1062
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:14,320
it's interesting that they 
weren't hatching more. 

1063
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:15,920
They didn't. 
For some reason they weren't 

1064
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,040
able to press that event. 
Like now we're the only Dragon 

1065
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,920
Rider family in the world. 
There's no one else like 

1066
00:51:21,130 --> 00:51:24,050
pressing us to keep on stay in 
our place. 

1067
00:51:24,250 --> 00:51:27,290
And like the 38th ranked Dragon 
Lord family is trying to keep us

1068
00:51:27,290 --> 00:51:30,410
down, to keep us 40th. 
So, you know, in the the 10th 

1069
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:33,730
strongest Dragon Lord family, if
they were to push on us, we'd be

1070
00:51:33,730 --> 00:51:35,930
in big trouble, you know. 
But there's no one, there's no 

1071
00:51:35,930 --> 00:51:38,170
one pushing on them at all. 
They're only limited by their 

1072
00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:40,330
own. 
Well, we don't know what the 

1073
00:51:40,330 --> 00:51:42,490
limitations. 
Are how does dragon intensive 

1074
00:51:42,490 --> 00:51:43,970
morality? 
Maybe. 

1075
00:51:44,450 --> 00:51:47,490
Yeah, yeah. 
Besides, yeah, they may not even

1076
00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:50,810
be limited by that. 
I really like the idea that some

1077
00:51:50,810 --> 00:51:53,970
sort of dream convinced Agon 
that he needed to do this, 

1078
00:51:54,370 --> 00:51:57,730
because I I want to think of him
as being heroic, but I don't 

1079
00:51:57,730 --> 00:51:59,810
think of people who start wars 
as being heroic. 

1080
00:51:59,810 --> 00:52:03,890
So, yeah, I I like the idea that
he didn't want to go to war, but

1081
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:07,210
something made him believe it 
was important for the betterment

1082
00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:09,730
of humankind, you know? 
And that's again, our Stannis 

1083
00:52:09,730 --> 00:52:12,050
parallel, right? 
And I think that's why Danis, 

1084
00:52:12,050 --> 00:52:16,810
Danis, Stannis and Danny 
combined really fit Agon's 

1085
00:52:16,810 --> 00:52:20,190
motivations here. 
Danny is the currently motivated

1086
00:52:20,190 --> 00:52:25,110
by the injustice to her family. 
She's like, I'm reclaiming what 

1087
00:52:25,110 --> 00:52:28,630
was mine, right. 
That's not a great reason right?

1088
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:30,190
To start a war on the entire 
continent. 

1089
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:34,470
If she arrives, finds out 
there's this great threat and 

1090
00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:37,310
focuses on that, well that is a 
much better reason if she's 

1091
00:52:37,310 --> 00:52:38,990
there to do that right, saving 
everybody. 

1092
00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:43,200
So between these two ideas, 
Stannis, the car, the argument 

1093
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,640
or the point he makes is that 
oh, I'm not king cuz I want it. 

1094
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,480
It's my duty. 
I'm the king. 

1095
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,240
It's it passed to me. 
I got to do this. 

1096
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:53,760
Now obviously Agon can't claim 
that it passed to him, but if he

1097
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,600
has this dream that it's his 
duty to do it. 

1098
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,000
It's very similar to Stannis 
thing. 

1099
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,840
It oh, it's my duty to save 
that. 

1100
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,920
What's one child against every 
child in Westeros? 

1101
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,340
Like these, these twisted, 
semantical, philosophical 

1102
00:53:06,340 --> 00:53:08,900
arguments about what you're 
what's right and wrong when 

1103
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:12,700
you're dealing with this 
supernatural global scale and 

1104
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:14,820
prophecy and uncertainty. 
What if you're right? 

1105
00:53:14,820 --> 00:53:17,140
What if you're wrong? 
I mean, I don't know, it's 

1106
00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:19,980
really tricky, but but you can 
see how those things are 

1107
00:53:19,980 --> 00:53:22,740
reflected in Agon. 
This the the desire, the 

1108
00:53:22,740 --> 00:53:25,740
ambition that's in Danny that 
she doesn't call ambition, but 

1109
00:53:25,740 --> 00:53:29,540
that's what it is when she just 
wants to get back what's hers. 

1110
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,600
I appreciate it. 
She's distracted from that 

1111
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,080
ambition by trying to stop 
slavery. 

1112
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,080
Yeah, like that's something I'm 
happy for. 

1113
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,640
I hope she never gets. 
Yeah. 

1114
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:38,680
Keep doing what you're doing, 
girl. 

1115
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,160
It shows that that's where her 
like ultimately that's what 

1116
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,000
like, she this this quest to 
regain the throne was something 

1117
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,600
was kind of passed down to her 
by her brother. 

1118
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,200
Her brother put that into her 
mind like this is great 

1119
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,400
injustice done to our family. 
If she had been raised 

1120
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:51,600
differently, she might not even 
care. 

1121
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:52,920
She might be like, yeah, 
whatever. 

1122
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,080
That's in the past now. 
Raised to think about other 

1123
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,760
injustices, like slavery, like 
slavery, where she's sort of 

1124
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,760
like becoming her own person and
having her own ideas about about

1125
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,160
the world, rather than being 
told that this is an injustice 

1126
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,200
you must address. 
You can't let this happen, you 

1127
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,880
know, just well, actually. 
Well, why not? 

1128
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:11,240
It didn't happen to me. 
It happened to my dad. 

1129
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:15,520
And my dad sucked to like, he 
kind of deserved that, right? 

1130
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,760
Like if she were to be more 
sober about it, she might Maybe 

1131
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,120
that'll happen one day. 
So of course Agon doesn't have 

1132
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,800
this. 
Oh, my family was overthrown. 

1133
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,920
We deserve this. 
There might be a little bit of, 

1134
00:54:27,810 --> 00:54:32,330
well, my family and people like 
my family basically ruled the 

1135
00:54:32,330 --> 00:54:34,130
whole world when we had the 
freehold. 

1136
00:54:34,130 --> 00:54:35,770
And that was only 100 years ago.
Y'all. 

1137
00:54:35,770 --> 00:54:37,690
Why not? 
Like we deserve to be back on 

1138
00:54:37,690 --> 00:54:41,450
top again. 
That's obviously pretty much 

1139
00:54:41,450 --> 00:54:44,300
just ambition. 
But it it it's still fueled by, 

1140
00:54:44,580 --> 00:54:47,140
it's fueled by pride in some 
ways. 

1141
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:50,740
By regaining loss status. 
Yeah, privilege of birth and 

1142
00:54:50,740 --> 00:54:52,620
things like that of of of what 
your family had. 

1143
00:54:52,620 --> 00:54:53,620
Privilege. 
Of Dragons. 

1144
00:54:53,660 --> 00:54:56,340
Privilege of Dragons is some 
pretty big one, yeah. 

1145
00:54:56,420 --> 00:54:59,180
Might makes right, you know, 
like you know once the whatever,

1146
00:54:59,180 --> 00:55:02,540
once the United States has a 
massive military that completes 

1147
00:55:02,540 --> 00:55:05,480
the world. 
Well, do we now have an 

1148
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,160
obligation to police the world? 
That's a tricky question, but 

1149
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:09,480
it's a very tricky question, 
Yes. 

1150
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,520
And if they do, then when they 
do police the world, it's a 

1151
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,600
mixed bag. 
There's definitely some good 

1152
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,520
things that come out of it, but 
there's some awful things that 

1153
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,960
come out of it too. 
And it's a question of, well, 

1154
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,600
would it be worse if they 
weren't there? 

1155
00:55:21,550 --> 00:55:23,990
It would be better if they were.
I don't know, like these are we 

1156
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:27,870
only have a sample size of one. 
For these scenarios, we don't 

1157
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:29,310
get to look at what would have 
happened. 

1158
00:55:29,310 --> 00:55:31,790
Until we have the multiverse 
device, that's true. 

1159
00:55:31,790 --> 00:55:35,110
When the multiverse arrives, 
we'll have a lot more answers. 

1160
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:37,190
The multiverse of a song Nice 
and fired. 

1161
00:55:37,190 --> 00:55:38,590
Fire and Blood. 
That's true too. 

1162
00:55:40,130 --> 00:55:42,290
What would love it if they did 
one of those like they did for 

1163
00:55:42,290 --> 00:55:43,730
Marvel? 
The What If series. 

1164
00:55:43,730 --> 00:55:46,690
Like an animated series? 
I would love to see just some 

1165
00:55:46,730 --> 00:55:49,250
alternate universe. 
Yeah, I know I could turn to fan

1166
00:55:49,250 --> 00:55:52,410
fiction, but yeah, true. 
Fanfiction. 

1167
00:55:53,690 --> 00:55:56,130
I'm getting quite as high 
concept as some of those what 

1168
00:55:56,130 --> 00:55:53,090
ifs too. 
I'm getting George's. 

1169
00:55:56,530 --> 00:55:57,810
That's true. 
They go a little more low. 

1170
00:55:57,850 --> 00:55:59,530
They do a little more like 
slight changes. 

1171
00:55:59,650 --> 00:56:05,690
Yeah, yeah. 
So one of my favorites in terms 

1172
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:07,850
of the setup for Aegon's 
Conquest. 

1173
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:10,910
It's also potentially an answer 
to some of our questions, or at 

1174
00:56:10,910 --> 00:56:15,790
least it gives us a milestone to
play with The Painted Table. 

1175
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:19,350
It's really cool looking. 
The show's giving us different 

1176
00:56:19,350 --> 00:56:21,870
versions of it, which is maybe a
little odd, but I don't mind cuz

1177
00:56:21,950 --> 00:56:24,270
they're all awesome. 
We've seen live versions out of 

1178
00:56:24,270 --> 00:56:26,150
like conventions, fan made ones 
and stuff. 

1179
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:28,830
I always gravitate towards it. 
I've got lots of pictures. 

1180
00:56:28,870 --> 00:56:32,470
Of it I dream still. 
One day I get one for Aziz. 

1181
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:37,340
Yes, we we'll have to do a lot 
better with our show to be able 

1182
00:56:37,340 --> 00:56:39,020
to afford that. 
But hey, goals. 

1183
00:56:39,020 --> 00:56:43,500
Y'all goals. 
So, I mean, I love maps in 

1184
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:44,780
general, but this is more than a
map. 

1185
00:56:44,780 --> 00:56:46,900
It's like a it's a well, it's a 
table map. 

1186
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:51,500
And Agon, well, when he had it 
made, it was well in advance of 

1187
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:53,820
the conquest. 
So he had to have been thinking 

1188
00:56:53,820 --> 00:56:55,220
about it. 
It was probably just one day he 

1189
00:56:55,220 --> 00:56:57,660
woke up and like, you know what 
I want a whole map of of 

1190
00:56:57,660 --> 00:56:59,660
Westeros. 
No, it's probably part of that 

1191
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:05,730
burgeoning ambition plan. 
Well, first I got to get an idea

1192
00:57:05,730 --> 00:57:07,730
what I'm dealing with. 
That's why he did a little bit 

1193
00:57:07,730 --> 00:57:09,490
of traveling, went to different 
places. 

1194
00:57:09,730 --> 00:57:13,250
We here he went to Atlantis 
port, the Arbor Old Town, and 

1195
00:57:13,570 --> 00:57:17,370
obviously he'd been to Essos to 
fight against the pretensions of

1196
00:57:17,370 --> 00:57:20,210
Atlantis. 
So he'd been around a bit more 

1197
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:23,010
so than probably a lot of his 
ancestors had been for a while. 

1198
00:57:23,010 --> 00:57:25,890
They may have been somewhat 
rooted in Dragonstone and like 

1199
00:57:25,890 --> 00:57:29,500
you said, just enjoying their 
wealth and prestige and I'm not 

1200
00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:32,180
doing much else about it. 
Yeah, you know, I find it a nice

1201
00:57:32,180 --> 00:57:34,340
comparison to Vissaris, 
actually. 

1202
00:57:34,420 --> 00:57:35,300
Well, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1203
00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,980
I feel that they both have kind 
of a hobby. 

1204
00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:41,580
I mean, you know, I feel like it
says that the quote I'm about to

1205
00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:45,020
read, he talks about how it was,
you know, carved and decorated 

1206
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:45,860
at his. 
Yeah. 

1207
00:57:45,860 --> 00:57:49,660
So I feel like he had some 
involvement in like, make it 

1208
00:57:49,860 --> 00:57:51,740
prettier dude. 
Like, you know, I feel like, 

1209
00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:56,760
yeah, he was into it. 
I imagine as you went to 

1210
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,800
different spots, he would find 
matmakers, maybe the best 

1211
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,760
matmakers, and ask them to come 
back and help make this carved 

1212
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,600
table and make that idea. 
And the thing that would 

1213
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:10,960
motivate them to do it is they 
get to fly back on Valeria and 

1214
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,080
see the world. 
Imagine what a matmaker getting 

1215
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,000
down at the world and have the 
real perspective of it. 

1216
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,160
We have. 
We certainly have precedent for 

1217
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,760
dragon riders taking up a single
passenger. 

1218
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,780
That's it. 
Only one in the show. 

1219
00:58:23,780 --> 00:58:25,900
And then I'm not talking about 
the show, which also that 

1220
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:28,260
happened in, but it, you know it
happened in Jerry this time. 

1221
00:58:28,260 --> 00:58:31,220
So it's entirely possible that 
would make sense like you want 

1222
00:58:31,220 --> 00:58:34,300
to get a good map of the world, 
get that overhead view. 

1223
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:35,140
You're total. 
That's a great. 

1224
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:36,420
I've never thought of that. 
It's a great idea. 

1225
00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:41,340
Yeah, imagine what a world 
changing event, what dream it 

1226
00:58:41,340 --> 00:58:43,620
would have been, you know for, 
for a mapmaker, even average 

1227
00:58:43,620 --> 00:58:46,180
person I suppose. 
But another thought I have is 

1228
00:58:46,180 --> 00:58:47,700
it. 
I think that the Painted Table 

1229
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:51,530
is another example of like. 
I don't know an exaggeration. 

1230
00:58:51,530 --> 00:58:53,290
I want to believe it's an 
exaggeration. 

1231
00:58:53,490 --> 00:58:57,050
I think they even. 
I don't even know if George 

1232
00:58:57,050 --> 00:58:59,810
realized what he's saying when 
he said it's a 50 foot table 

1233
00:59:00,490 --> 00:59:03,810
half a ball field. 
Like what room is that fitting 

1234
00:59:03,810 --> 00:59:04,770
in? 
How long would it? 

1235
00:59:04,770 --> 00:59:06,170
You can't see the other end of 
it. 

1236
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:09,290
Like it's not. 
I just, I mean, for planning 

1237
00:59:09,290 --> 00:59:11,810
purposes. 
It's a little unwieldy. 15 I 

1238
00:59:11,810 --> 00:59:16,250
think someone misheard. 50 For 
15 George is known for making 

1239
00:59:16,250 --> 00:59:19,090
things too big. 
The Wall, The Throne. 

1240
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,720
It did say he transcribed this. 
I think he just misinterpreted 

1241
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,960
50 or 50. 
He was listening to the audio 

1242
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,360
book too, 50 and 15. 
Yeah, well, let's have the quote

1243
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:30,640
now. 
The painted table quote. 

1244
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:36,080
A common myth OFT heard amongst 
the ignorant claims that Agon 

1245
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,320
Targaryen had never set foot 
upon the soil of Westeros until 

1246
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,360
the day he set sail to conquer 
it. 

1247
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,480
But this cannot be truth. 
Years before that sailing, the 

1248
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,280
Painted Table had been carved 
and decorated at Lord Agon's 

1249
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:56,200
command, a massive slab of wood 
some 50 feet long, carved in the

1250
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:00,960
shape of Westeros and painted to
show all the woods and rivers 

1251
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,080
and towns and castles of the 
Seven Kingdoms. 

1252
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,720
Plainly, Agon's interest in 
Westeros long predated the 

1253
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:13,400
events that drove him to war. 
Yeah, and I think he was Lord 

1254
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,680
when he had this made. 
It says decorated at Lord Agon's

1255
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,240
command. 
So, like, unless they're just 

1256
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:20,800
being sloppy with that. 
I mean, he would have been 

1257
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,800
called Lord by courtesy before 
he was officially Lord of 

1258
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,920
Dragonstone. 
But we can assume this was after

1259
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,680
his father died. 
But it may have been an idea he 

1260
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,840
had when he was younger when his
father was still alive and his 

1261
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,520
father was like, man, I don't 
want to do that. 

1262
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:34,120
But I totally agree with you 
Sean. 

1263
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,790
Like picturing it on the show, 
50 feet long, but fifteen. 

1264
01:00:38,790 --> 01:00:41,430
Yeah, it might be 15, might be a
little more than 15, but closer.

1265
01:00:41,550 --> 01:00:44,390
To 15 was in the show is not 
that is not a change that I'm 

1266
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:46,550
unhappy with. 
I feel like that that size they 

1267
01:00:46,550 --> 01:00:50,710
did seems like the throne. 
It's too like, yeah, just too 

1268
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:51,710
big. 
You can't fit that on the 

1269
01:00:51,710 --> 01:00:53,030
camera. 
Not have shown. 

1270
01:00:53,310 --> 01:00:55,990
They literally could not have 
shown a 50 foot table on a show.

1271
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:57,070
It literally couldn't have shown
it. 

1272
01:00:57,070 --> 01:00:58,590
Yeah, it's too big. 
It's too big to fit in the 

1273
01:00:58,590 --> 01:01:00,270
frame, Yes. 
Which is exactly the same 

1274
01:01:00,270 --> 01:01:02,830
argument for the throne. 
It was too big to do that way. 

1275
01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:05,740
So yeah, plainly indeed. 
Is this. 

1276
01:01:05,740 --> 01:01:08,020
Plainly Aegon's interest in West
was long predated the events 

1277
01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:09,460
that drove into war. 
So yeah, I really wonder, like, 

1278
01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:12,100
how much attention did he have 
paid to like having the wall 

1279
01:01:12,100 --> 01:01:13,260
done just right? 
And did he? 

1280
01:01:13,420 --> 01:01:15,180
It was that. 
How much of an interest was that

1281
01:01:15,180 --> 01:01:16,780
to him at that point? 
Or was he just really focused on

1282
01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:18,700
Okay? 
That's going to be a challenge 

1283
01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:23,300
for my descendants. 
Ah, my goal, my job is to get 

1284
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:27,980
this realm all situated so that 
my descendants can have it ready

1285
01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:31,620
for the eventual darkness. 
Which he probably still 

1286
01:01:31,620 --> 01:01:34,740
perceived as as a long way off, 
because again, I really can't 

1287
01:01:34,740 --> 01:01:37,340
see any other way to look at it.
Aegon's actions just do not 

1288
01:01:37,340 --> 01:01:39,820
indicate that he thought this 
would be an imminent problem, 

1289
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:43,540
but still 1 to get ahead of. 
And he was told the man to do 

1290
01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:44,780
it. 
Which is why you got to put a 

1291
01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:49,340
healthy dose of ambition into 
this character profile. 

1292
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:53,100
Because yeah, like how much 
could he have really known? 

1293
01:01:53,100 --> 01:01:56,100
And again, was he really the 
only one who had this dream 

1294
01:01:56,100 --> 01:01:59,900
first, or at all? 
Here's another description of 

1295
01:01:59,900 --> 01:02:04,020
The Painted Table, a discussion 
from a song in West and Fire. 

1296
01:02:04,100 --> 01:02:07,540
Very relevant here. 
Stannis touched the painted 

1297
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:09,020
Table. 
Look at it. 

1298
01:02:09,020 --> 01:02:10,620
Onion Night. 
My realm. 

1299
01:02:10,620 --> 01:02:15,020
By rights, my Westeros. 
He swept a hand across it. 

1300
01:02:15,460 --> 01:02:18,140
This talk of Seven Kingdoms is a
folly. 

1301
01:02:18,460 --> 01:02:22,420
Egon saw that 300 years ago. 
I want to resa. 

1302
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,160
This talk of seven kingdoms is a
folly. 

1303
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:29,040
Aegon saw that 300 years ago 
when he stood where we are 

1304
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,600
standing. 
They painted this table at his 

1305
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,120
command, rivers and bays. 
They painted hills and 

1306
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:39,280
mountains, castles and cities 
and market towns, lakes and 

1307
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,640
swamps and forests, but no 
borders. 

1308
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:48,720
It is all 11 realm for one king 
to rule alone. 

1309
01:02:50,380 --> 01:02:53,380
One king agree Davos. 
One king means peace. 

1310
01:02:53,900 --> 01:02:56,660
One king does mean peace. 
I mean in terms of the ethical 

1311
01:02:56,660 --> 01:03:02,020
argument for conquering, Things 
did get a lot more peaceful 

1312
01:03:02,020 --> 01:03:05,300
after the conquest. 
There was a lot a lot less war 

1313
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:09,980
from north to South, from east 
to West, all in between. 

1314
01:03:10,860 --> 01:03:12,100
I mean there were some war 
still. 

1315
01:03:12,100 --> 01:03:14,380
Obviously it wasn't pure, all 
100% peace. 

1316
01:03:14,380 --> 01:03:19,610
But the average peasant had a 
very improved life under Agon. 

1317
01:03:19,610 --> 01:03:21,690
As far as we can tell, they were
a lot less likely to be called 

1318
01:03:21,690 --> 01:03:24,250
up to go to war, a lot more 
likely to be left alone, which 

1319
01:03:24,250 --> 01:03:26,810
is, as we've heard from several 
different characters. 

1320
01:03:26,810 --> 01:03:29,090
And it stands to reason 
intuitively that they just want 

1321
01:03:29,090 --> 01:03:32,250
to be left alone and not be 
dragged into the Game of 

1322
01:03:32,250 --> 01:03:34,530
Thrones. 
Well, when the Game of Thrones 

1323
01:03:34,530 --> 01:03:38,850
is settled at the top, at least 
relatively settled, then they're

1324
01:03:38,850 --> 01:03:40,330
not getting pulled into that 
game, are they? 

1325
01:03:40,530 --> 01:03:44,090
So yeah, I mean it's a tough 
call but difficult. 

1326
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:46,670
So is this the type of argument,
the same thing Stannis is 

1327
01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:49,830
saying? 
Like picture Aegon saying it to 

1328
01:03:49,830 --> 01:03:53,950
his sisters or to to have Lord 
Valorian and Lord Celtic are and

1329
01:03:53,950 --> 01:04:00,470
the others around him, Lord 
Coheris and Lord the and Oris 

1330
01:04:00,470 --> 01:04:03,870
Baratheon, these other people. 
Is he saying look at it, you 

1331
01:04:03,870 --> 01:04:06,590
know, this is going to be my 
realm or our realm. 

1332
01:04:06,590 --> 01:04:10,230
I wonder how he phrased it. 
It's it's, you know, we're the 

1333
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:11,710
strong ones. 
We should have it. 

1334
01:04:11,710 --> 01:04:15,380
Or if we don't seize this, it 
will all be gone. 

1335
01:04:15,380 --> 01:04:19,540
All this will turn to Frost. 
Sometime in the future another 

1336
01:04:19,540 --> 01:04:23,420
long night will come and it's up
to us to stop that. 

1337
01:04:23,420 --> 01:04:25,300
Like, did he use both of these 
arguments? 

1338
01:04:25,300 --> 01:04:27,780
I could kind of think so. 
That's kind of where my head's 

1339
01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:29,340
at. 
Would love to hear other 

1340
01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:32,380
thoughts, but I feel like it. 
I feel like that's it. 

1341
01:04:32,380 --> 01:04:35,220
And I think that because he was 
charismatic, we're told George 

1342
01:04:35,220 --> 01:04:37,580
keeps his kept Agon's 
personality kind of hidden. 

1343
01:04:37,580 --> 01:04:39,740
I think that's an authorial 
choice, to give himself room 

1344
01:04:39,740 --> 01:04:42,680
later, but also kind of makes 
sense, as is a guy that kept his

1345
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,680
own counsel. 
I mean, it's a valid human trait

1346
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,440
to have someone who's kind of 
authoritative and aggressive and

1347
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:53,640
ambitious, but also a little 
introverted about their talking,

1348
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,360
you know, having relationships 
with other people. 

1349
01:04:57,320 --> 01:04:59,400
So I. 
So I think that he had to have 

1350
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:05,240
been convincing because people 
did follow him pretty willingly.

1351
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:11,070
It said that other men were won 
over by his strength, the other 

1352
01:05:11,070 --> 01:05:12,750
Lords. 
Same with women. 

1353
01:05:12,750 --> 01:05:14,710
Just he had that kind of 
personality. 

1354
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:17,390
A little Robert Baratheon 
without the boisterousness, 

1355
01:05:17,390 --> 01:05:20,750
perhaps just people liked him 
who wanted to like you feel 

1356
01:05:20,750 --> 01:05:22,350
safe. 
If he's in charge, you know, 

1357
01:05:22,350 --> 01:05:24,030
like, well, this guy looks like 
he knows what he's doing. 

1358
01:05:24,030 --> 01:05:27,830
He presents that attitude, that 
vibe. 

1359
01:05:27,830 --> 01:05:30,750
You want to use a more modern 
term of just he projects 

1360
01:05:31,230 --> 01:05:34,150
success, projects competence, 
and he's got a plan. 

1361
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:36,470
People like a man with a plan. 
People like a woman with a plan.

1362
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:38,990
People like a plan, you know, if
it's a good plan, and especially

1363
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:41,790
if it's a plan that if it works,
is going to do good things for 

1364
01:05:41,790 --> 01:05:45,110
them, you know? 
And in particular, I wonder 

1365
01:05:45,110 --> 01:05:47,190
about his sisters, like what do 
they think of his dreams? 

1366
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:49,110
Were they, like, instantly 
bought in? 

1367
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:51,550
Was it the case where they were 
pushing him, like, no, you got 

1368
01:05:51,550 --> 01:05:54,870
to follow your dreams or was he 
dragging them into it? 

1369
01:05:57,230 --> 01:06:01,360
When, when and if this is ever 
written down for a more detailed

1370
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,160
story, this is an important 
decision that they're going to 

1371
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,560
have to make. 
And then I'm not sure which is 

1372
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,720
the smarter decision from a 
storytelling perspective because

1373
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,680
it's probably be how they'll 
consider it like, well, what's 

1374
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,600
going to be the most compelling 
way to frame this? 

1375
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,480
But for now, we get to think 
about it in our head cannon and 

1376
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:17,960
wonder about these 
possibilities. 

1377
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:26,160
And here's another quote that 
helps us kind of understand 

1378
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,930
maybe why and from another 
angle, why prior Targaryens and 

1379
01:06:31,930 --> 01:06:34,250
Valyrians didn't take Westeros, 
something that we haven't 

1380
01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:36,450
mentioned yet that is definitely
worth bringing up. 

1381
01:06:37,810 --> 01:06:41,450
The wealth of the Westerlands 
was matched in ancient times 

1382
01:06:41,650 --> 01:06:45,410
with the hunger of the Freehold 
of Illyria for precious metals. 

1383
01:06:45,690 --> 01:06:49,330
Yet there seems no evidence that
the Dragon Lords ever made 

1384
01:06:49,330 --> 01:06:53,170
contact with the Lords of the 
Rock, Casterly or Lannister. 

1385
01:06:53,650 --> 01:06:57,730
Septon Barth speculated on the 
matter, referring to a Valyrian 

1386
01:06:57,730 --> 01:07:00,290
text. 
That has since been lost, 

1387
01:07:00,570 --> 01:07:05,210
suggesting that the Freehold 
Sorcerers foretold that the gold

1388
01:07:05,250 --> 01:07:07,970
of Casterly Rock would destroy 
them. 

1389
01:07:08,610 --> 01:07:12,610
Archmeister Pariston has put 
forward a different, more 

1390
01:07:12,610 --> 01:07:16,610
plausible speculation suggesting
that the Valyrians had, in 

1391
01:07:16,610 --> 01:07:20,690
ancient days reached as far as 
Old Town, but suffered some 

1392
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:25,370
great reverse or tragedy there 
that caused them to shun all of 

1393
01:07:25,370 --> 01:07:29,470
Westeros thereafter. 
So in addition to just not being

1394
01:07:29,470 --> 01:07:33,790
ambitious or motivated enough, 
or not having a dragon they 

1395
01:07:33,830 --> 01:07:37,230
thought was sufficient to pull 
off a conquest, or not having 

1396
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:44,150
the proper dreams behind it, 
maybe even just didn't want to 

1397
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:46,590
do it because of this prophecy 
that told them that it would 

1398
01:07:46,830 --> 01:07:50,470
cause their own doom. 
Arguably that's what happened. 

1399
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:54,430
Like they might look back on the
The Doom and be like, well is 

1400
01:07:55,750 --> 01:08:01,310
clearly these things can happen.
The entire doom of 1000 year 

1401
01:08:01,590 --> 01:08:06,030
multiple thousands year old 
empire of sorts can end well 

1402
01:08:06,030 --> 01:08:10,070
then we got to take these things
seriously and because it would 

1403
01:08:10,070 --> 01:08:12,110
have been much easier for them 
than it is, right. 

1404
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:17,029
We can't look at it as like Oh 
well they just didn't want to 

1405
01:08:17,750 --> 01:08:19,870
they just couldn't. 
Well maybe they didn't want to 

1406
01:08:19,870 --> 01:08:21,710
but the whole they couldn't is 
ridiculous. 

1407
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:25,149
They didn't have this manpower 
problem that Aegon and his 

1408
01:08:25,460 --> 01:08:28,899
family had at the time. 
It was before the Doom. 

1409
01:08:28,899 --> 01:08:33,500
They had infinite manpower if 
you want to look at it that way.

1410
01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:36,939
So it wasn't a mat. 
You can't say well it just 

1411
01:08:36,939 --> 01:08:39,899
wasn't feasible. 
It was absolutely feasible for 

1412
01:08:39,899 --> 01:08:43,500
Valeria to conquer Westeros. 
It would have been maybe even 

1413
01:08:43,500 --> 01:08:45,660
easier than some of their prior 
conquests. 

1414
01:08:45,660 --> 01:08:48,220
It probably would have been 
easier than the Royn are in some

1415
01:08:48,220 --> 01:08:51,080
ways. 
And if it got bad, well, just 

1416
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:55,319
unleash all the Dragons they at 
least 300 Dragons on the Roinish

1417
01:08:55,319 --> 01:09:01,319
people at one point. 
Imagine just 50 just to send 50 

1418
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,319
to Westeros like it's over like 
they would. 

1419
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:05,600
Westeros would be like we're 
done. 

1420
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,000
We cannot possibly fight against
this. 

1421
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,439
When did they take over the war 
and our people? 

1422
01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:15,370
Sort of. 
They defeated them. 

1423
01:09:15,490 --> 01:09:17,410
They said a bunch of Dragons 
killed a bunch of them, but they

1424
01:09:17,410 --> 01:09:19,770
didn't really take over, right? 
That might be the thing. 

1425
01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:21,970
They might have been able to 
quote, UN quote conquer 

1426
01:09:21,970 --> 01:09:23,729
Westeros, but not rule it after 
the fact. 

1427
01:09:23,729 --> 01:09:25,210
And maybe they didn't want to 
bother with that. 

1428
01:09:25,649 --> 01:09:28,010
That's true. 
A lot of the Ryaner cities were 

1429
01:09:28,010 --> 01:09:29,930
just destroyed. 
They weren't really ruled 

1430
01:09:29,930 --> 01:09:31,930
afterwards. 
They based in some cases, built 

1431
01:09:32,250 --> 01:09:35,410
cities in nearby and just 
replaced them. 

1432
01:09:35,410 --> 01:09:37,170
But yeah, they didn't. 
It wasn't really. 

1433
01:09:37,170 --> 01:09:38,609
You're right. 
It wasn't really a conquest so 

1434
01:09:38,609 --> 01:09:42,130
much as a genocide. 
But it played out over a long 

1435
01:09:42,130 --> 01:09:44,380
time. 
But yeah, like, and and this is 

1436
01:09:44,380 --> 01:09:46,220
another reason to think about 
Valerian and the difference. 

1437
01:09:46,220 --> 01:09:48,380
Like, picture what you've seen 
of Vagar on TV. 

1438
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:49,660
Like, that's. 
Whoa. 

1439
01:09:49,660 --> 01:09:50,660
Right. 
Enormous. 

1440
01:09:50,660 --> 01:09:52,740
Right. 
We haven't even really seen 

1441
01:09:52,740 --> 01:09:55,660
Vagar go up against a tough 
target. 

1442
01:09:55,660 --> 01:09:58,420
We saw Vagar take out a much, 
much tinier dragon. 

1443
01:09:58,780 --> 01:10:03,340
OK well if you're 50, Horde of 
50 Dragons are all the size of 

1444
01:10:03,340 --> 01:10:05,100
air ax. 
All right. 

1445
01:10:05,460 --> 01:10:08,060
We're going to fight you. 
Like that's not a game. 

1446
01:10:08,180 --> 01:10:09,860
That's a game changer. 
But we might. 

1447
01:10:09,860 --> 01:10:13,140
We're not just going to bend the
knee to those little guys. 

1448
01:10:13,580 --> 01:10:15,620
I was still been the knee. 
I would too, but you can see why

1449
01:10:15,620 --> 01:10:16,940
they would. 
I think it's so true. 

1450
01:10:17,220 --> 01:10:18,820
Breeze, fire and it flies or 
something. 

1451
01:10:19,460 --> 01:10:22,060
But it's not like you can be 
brought down with like regular 

1452
01:10:22,060 --> 01:10:23,020
arrows. 
You know what I mean? 

1453
01:10:23,060 --> 01:10:25,580
Regular crossbows like. 
You can imagine they're not 

1454
01:10:25,580 --> 01:10:26,660
melting castle. 
Fighting. 

1455
01:10:26,740 --> 01:10:29,420
Yeah, you might change your mind
after the fact, but yeah, you 

1456
01:10:29,420 --> 01:10:31,340
can see that you might be. 
You're not just going to give up

1457
01:10:31,340 --> 01:10:31,940
right away. 
Yeah. 

1458
01:10:31,940 --> 01:10:33,300
So you're going to, you're going
to try to fight that. 

1459
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:35,140
Like, people didn't give up 
against elephants when they 

1460
01:10:35,140 --> 01:10:36,660
first encountered elephants in 
war. 

1461
01:10:36,660 --> 01:10:37,860
Like, they're like, we're going 
to try to fight that. 

1462
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:38,980
We're going to find a way around
there. 

1463
01:10:38,980 --> 01:10:41,020
We're going to find a way to 
scare the elephants or to drive 

1464
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:43,450
them off, you know, not have to 
fight them directly. 

1465
01:10:43,450 --> 01:10:45,450
I mean, people may have thought 
they could scare the Dragons and

1466
01:10:45,450 --> 01:10:47,330
they might have been like, oh, 
he can't really control it that 

1467
01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:49,130
well, he can't be that precise 
with it. 

1468
01:10:49,210 --> 01:10:51,170
It's just as likely to turn on 
his own troops, right? 

1469
01:10:51,650 --> 01:10:53,130
Wrong. 
I guess they might even. 

1470
01:10:54,090 --> 01:10:57,130
You can maybe even compare it to
like fighter jets or bombers in 

1471
01:10:57,130 --> 01:11:00,410
World War 2 like they were. 
Powerful, destructive, 

1472
01:11:00,410 --> 01:11:02,770
effective. 
But they're not a nuclear bomb. 

1473
01:11:02,970 --> 01:11:05,330
We're not gonna give up because 
you have some fighter jets, 

1474
01:11:05,330 --> 01:11:07,370
Exactly. 
Like if you got a bunch of air 

1475
01:11:07,370 --> 01:11:10,210
axes flying around, like, well, 
maybe we can, maybe we can win, 

1476
01:11:10,210 --> 01:11:13,170
maybe we can kill the riders, 
maybe we can overcome this. 

1477
01:11:13,170 --> 01:11:17,330
But yeah, but Valerian, you just
can't unless there's nothing you

1478
01:11:17,330 --> 01:11:19,210
can do. 
I mean, like you said, maybe you

1479
01:11:19,210 --> 01:11:21,210
get lucky and hurt the rider, 
but that's about it. 

1480
01:11:21,210 --> 01:11:23,250
Like you got They did eventually
try that. 

1481
01:11:23,250 --> 01:11:25,010
Like the Doran is. 
They tried to assassinate a gun.

1482
01:11:25,010 --> 01:11:26,810
Like, well, we're not going to, 
we're not going to kill that 

1483
01:11:26,810 --> 01:11:28,570
dragon, but we might be able to 
kill the rider. 

1484
01:11:28,570 --> 01:11:31,050
He's not on it 100% of the time.
Yeah, we got a shot. 

1485
01:11:31,810 --> 01:11:36,250
So, yeah, so there's a lot of 
different possibilities here. 

1486
01:11:37,050 --> 01:11:40,490
Let us move on to our it's been 
about an hour. 

1487
01:11:40,490 --> 01:11:42,450
We're about closely halfway 
through this episode. 

1488
01:11:42,450 --> 01:11:45,530
So let's take a little short 
break, answer a few questions 

1489
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,200
and get back to it. 
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1490
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:54,200
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1491
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:58,360
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1496
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:13,360
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I remember when they were new, 

1497
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,980
kind of a like a novelty. 
They're kind of just getting 

1498
01:12:16,980 --> 01:12:22,060
their feet wet as a thing. 
But here, many years later, many

1499
01:12:22,060 --> 01:12:24,700
years later, they've become more
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1500
01:12:25,100 --> 01:12:26,900
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1501
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:28,220
That's a huge one from my 
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1502
01:12:28,860 --> 01:12:32,100
From where I'm sitting anyway, 
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1503
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,660
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1504
01:12:34,820 --> 01:12:38,180
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1505
01:12:38,340 --> 01:12:43,180
Pescetarian. 
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1506
01:12:43,180 --> 01:12:45,780
like there's way more options 
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1507
01:12:46,100 --> 01:12:48,620
Different size families. 
If you need something fast, you 

1508
01:12:48,620 --> 01:12:51,740
want 15 minute meals or you're 
trying to cook a big group 

1509
01:12:51,740 --> 01:12:55,740
dinner, lots of more options. 
Plus, in my experience with 

1510
01:12:55,740 --> 01:12:58,460
this, and I wish I can back me 
up on this because we've done 

1511
01:12:58,460 --> 01:13:01,100
this together. 
Cooking with a recipe, I mean, 

1512
01:13:01,180 --> 01:13:03,980
it just teaches you new things, 
especially if the recipe is nice

1513
01:13:03,980 --> 01:13:05,220
and clear. 
You may. 

1514
01:13:05,220 --> 01:13:06,900
I don't know if you're like me. 
You kind of don't. 

1515
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:08,600
You don't like getting started 
on that. 

1516
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:10,920
Sometimes you don't, like, get 
excited about new recipes, and 

1517
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:12,000
there's some people out there 
are. 

1518
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:16,320
But when you're doing it in the,
actually accomplishing it, when 

1519
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,120
you've actually done it, you 
feel like you've accomplished 

1520
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,480
something. 
I do, and then I hang on to some

1521
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:22,480
of that knowledge. 
I might remember a little bit of

1522
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:24,400
what I've just done, and that 
might help me later. 

1523
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:31,190
So that leads to more variety in
your eating habits, even when 

1524
01:13:31,190 --> 01:13:32,870
you're not eating from a meal 
delivery service. 

1525
01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:35,590
So having it just for a short 
time or for a long time can 

1526
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:37,910
really change your life in small
ways that can be pretty 

1527
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:39,830
meaningful. 
Yeah, I really can inspire you 

1528
01:13:39,830 --> 01:13:43,030
to for different types of meals.
But yeah, I could totally be 

1529
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:46,310
making this whole category that 
I never really messed with. 

1530
01:13:46,350 --> 01:13:47,590
Yeah, you might not. 
You might find something you 

1531
01:13:47,590 --> 01:13:50,950
didn't realize you liked, and 
that's you might be. 

1532
01:13:50,950 --> 01:13:52,310
Wow, I've been missing out all 
this time. 

1533
01:13:54,140 --> 01:13:57,180
I have a friend who recently was
telling me he's been doing it 

1534
01:13:57,180 --> 01:13:59,780
for a while and that it has 
definitely. 

1535
01:13:59,780 --> 01:14:02,860
He never. 
It wasn't in his range to bake 

1536
01:14:02,860 --> 01:14:05,540
vegetables, but he started doing
that and he's learned different 

1537
01:14:05,540 --> 01:14:08,780
like recipes he's had that had 
different spice combinations. 

1538
01:14:09,020 --> 01:14:11,660
He now knows those spice 
combinations work, so we want to

1539
01:14:11,660 --> 01:14:13,100
cook something aside from what 
they send him. 

1540
01:14:13,100 --> 01:14:16,060
He's got new things in his tools
in his belt to use. 

1541
01:14:16,060 --> 01:14:17,420
Actually, that's a perfect 
example. 

1542
01:14:17,420 --> 01:14:22,370
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1543
01:14:22,370 --> 01:14:27,010
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Christina Kay says on the topic 

1546
01:14:35,970 --> 01:14:39,910
of BC A/C Plus, it just 
disregards any major events 

1547
01:14:39,950 --> 01:14:43,430
Essos has. 
If we read an Essos history 

1548
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:45,910
book, well, I imagine it'll 
depend on if we're reading a 

1549
01:14:46,470 --> 01:14:50,110
Ytish history book versus 
Bravosi one. 

1550
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:41,750
Yeah, that's a good point. 
Yeah, it's a. 

1551
01:14:50,110 --> 01:14:56,390
I wonder how standardized their 
measure of time is, of how do 

1552
01:14:56,390 --> 01:15:00,330
they date things I imagine? 
ET for example, does their own 

1553
01:15:00,330 --> 01:15:03,490
thing, but maybe all the free 
cities do one same, like maybe 

1554
01:15:03,490 --> 01:15:06,490
they're standardized across like
there might be like a point 

1555
01:15:06,490 --> 01:15:10,690
where you're like everything 
West of ET uses 1 measurement 

1556
01:15:10,690 --> 01:15:12,210
and everything. 
I don't know that's a good 

1557
01:15:12,210 --> 01:15:14,330
they're particularly ancient is 
why I would think they would be 

1558
01:15:14,330 --> 01:15:15,770
a little bit different. 
I think about like Chinese 

1559
01:15:15,770 --> 01:15:16,930
calendar. 
Yeah, they wouldn't be making a 

1560
01:15:16,930 --> 01:15:20,490
new calendar because some dude. 
No, thousands of years later. 

1561
01:15:20,490 --> 01:15:22,490
Not another continent. 
Yeah, yeah, of course not 

1562
01:15:22,530 --> 01:15:23,370
something. 
Yeah. 

1563
01:15:23,370 --> 01:15:26,340
What do they care? 
But yeah, I would be curious to 

1564
01:15:26,340 --> 01:15:29,340
know. 
I I like the idea that Bravos 

1565
01:15:29,380 --> 01:15:32,060
like they like once, once the 
Doom happened, they go before 

1566
01:15:32,060 --> 01:15:35,140
and after Doom. 
That's what matters. 

1567
01:15:35,140 --> 01:15:36,980
Like, yeah, we like that one. 
That's a good one. 

1568
01:15:38,860 --> 01:15:41,020
And that is probably is 
significant. 

1569
01:15:41,020 --> 01:15:43,860
A marker is Aegon taking over 
Westeros, right? 

1570
01:15:43,900 --> 01:15:45,700
Yeah. 
No, I feel like there might be 1

1571
01:15:45,980 --> 01:15:47,820
perspective. 
Yeah, as the Doom might be a 

1572
01:15:47,820 --> 01:15:50,220
pretty major one, but there 
might be other. 

1573
01:15:50,380 --> 01:15:53,700
Yeah, I'm super curious about 
how S S would do calendars. 

1574
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:57,350
The more I think about it, the 
more realistic I would think for

1575
01:15:57,350 --> 01:16:00,750
other continents and lands to 
not use that dating system. 

1576
01:16:00,990 --> 01:16:02,990
I wish I knew the history a 
little bit better, but in the 

1577
01:16:02,990 --> 01:16:05,910
real world, you know whenever 
the Romans started using that 

1578
01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:08,140
date. 
As sex didn't know anything 

1579
01:16:08,140 --> 01:16:11,940
about that, they didn't care 
about Jesus being poor like so. 

1580
01:16:12,460 --> 01:16:15,940
Eventually as they conquered the
world out and enter trade and 

1581
01:16:15,940 --> 01:16:18,020
other things it it sort of 
spread and took hold. 

1582
01:16:18,020 --> 01:16:19,860
But it still hasn't completely 
taken hold. 

1583
01:16:19,860 --> 01:16:21,380
The Chinese still have their own
calendar. 

1584
01:16:21,460 --> 01:16:23,780
So I mean, like you said, the 
Why the World Went calendar, 

1585
01:16:23,780 --> 01:16:26,620
yeah. 300 years is a pretty 
short time. 

1586
01:16:27,980 --> 01:16:31,220
Maybe if Westeros went and 
conquered all of us, so forced 

1587
01:16:31,220 --> 01:16:32,500
them right now. 
Yeah. 

1588
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,160
Yeah, you're right. 
George, we want the ET calendar,

1589
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:40,040
and calendar is like, you're 
right to point that out that 

1590
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,640
they are often the source, just 
like who's the most powerful. 

1591
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:47,000
We use the calendar that pretty 
much started with the Romans. 

1592
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,920
That's where that came from. 
We changed the BC AD stuff, but 

1593
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,560
the dating like the months and 
dates are all based on. 

1594
01:16:55,150 --> 01:16:58,190
That, and it took a long, long 
time for that to spread out to 

1595
01:16:58,230 --> 01:17:00,750
to to be very standard within 
itself. 

1596
01:17:00,790 --> 01:17:03,670
Even within the Roman culture, 
they kept changing the dates. 

1597
01:17:03,670 --> 01:17:06,430
Just different Emperors had name
one month after me. 

1598
01:17:08,110 --> 01:17:12,790
That's true. 
Julie A takes us from BC to the 

1599
01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:19,510
BBC pointing out that Queen 
Elizabeth's Jubilee had a 

1600
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:22,070
commissioned a 43 foot table for
her. 

1601
01:17:22,990 --> 01:17:25,120
Isn't that crazy, Sean? 
I know. 

1602
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:30,280
Yes, that is crazy level levels.
See what this table looked like?

1603
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:33,960
That is crazy a little. 
Dang, where is this table now? 

1604
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,200
They're like they just turned it
into kindling after it was just 

1605
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:39,640
a one use table. 
Just throw it out after they 

1606
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,600
had. 
To like what's the word? 

1607
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:47,070
Refurbish Re. 
Reestablish a whole soccer 

1608
01:17:47,070 --> 01:17:48,590
stadium to put this table in 
two. 

1609
01:17:48,590 --> 01:17:51,670
You don't have soccer games in 
this stadium anymore. 

1610
01:17:51,670 --> 01:17:54,950
They have dinner, Dornish Dame 
says. 

1611
01:17:54,950 --> 01:17:58,150
As as much as I find the theory 
Agon didn't father Anus or Meg 

1612
01:17:58,150 --> 01:18:01,710
or interesting, I wonder if also
Wedding Rainy's came from the 

1613
01:18:01,710 --> 01:18:04,430
knowledge slash belief that her 
line would be the one to 

1614
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:06,750
eventually fight the others. 
Yeah, that's an interesting 

1615
01:18:06,750 --> 01:18:08,590
point. 
Like did Agon's dream include 

1616
01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:11,630
specifics like that? 
It was just like, oh, the 

1617
01:18:11,630 --> 01:18:16,050
Targaryen's need to be on the 
throne to fight this evil, this 

1618
01:18:16,050 --> 01:18:18,330
darkness. 
Or is it more specific? 

1619
01:18:18,330 --> 01:18:21,930
Is it like, well, it's going to 
pass through a particular one of

1620
01:18:21,930 --> 01:18:24,330
your sister wives, Maybe that 
that could explain some of the 

1621
01:18:24,330 --> 01:18:27,010
senia's actions later if she 
didn't believe in that or if she

1622
01:18:27,010 --> 01:18:32,050
saw it differently, or yeah, cuz
obviously these two branches do 

1623
01:18:32,050 --> 01:18:35,490
collide later and it's pretty 
bloody and gruesome. 

1624
01:18:35,490 --> 01:18:38,410
And we were when we get there, 
we'll talk about how the dreams 

1625
01:18:39,410 --> 01:18:44,860
might factor into causing some 
panic or causing some people to 

1626
01:18:44,860 --> 01:18:48,860
feel it was necessary. 
So very good point there by 

1627
01:18:48,860 --> 01:18:51,300
Dornish Dame. 
As often Dornish Dame has great 

1628
01:18:51,300 --> 01:18:53,460
points. 
Also, Lalatov sends super chat 

1629
01:18:53,460 --> 01:18:56,060
and says, do you miss anything 
with the audio, fire and blood 

1630
01:18:56,220 --> 01:18:59,060
maps, etc. 
Yeah, you do miss a little bit. 

1631
01:18:59,060 --> 01:19:03,060
But those things are in the 
audio, they're there. 

1632
01:19:03,620 --> 01:19:08,100
There's a big PDF attached to 
the audio that you can see now 

1633
01:19:08,100 --> 01:19:09,860
it's not gonna. 
There's a lot of art popping up 

1634
01:19:09,940 --> 01:19:11,700
right at the right time. 
There's a lot of black and white

1635
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:15,140
art throughout the book. 
The book does have a lot of art 

1636
01:19:15,140 --> 01:19:17,700
and there are some maps. 
I'm not sure if all the art is 

1637
01:19:17,700 --> 01:19:18,900
in the PDF, I think it might be 
I. 

1638
01:19:18,900 --> 01:19:20,260
Think it is. 
I think it is, yeah. 

1639
01:19:21,380 --> 01:19:24,060
And the maps are certainly 
there, so it should be there. 

1640
01:19:24,060 --> 01:19:29,660
If you're listening to the audio
version, then be aware of that. 

1641
01:19:30,220 --> 01:19:33,740
And if you don't have the audio 
version, well, you can go to our

1642
01:19:33,740 --> 01:19:36,440
website and we've got links for 
you to buy it. 

1643
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,040
And you'd be supporting the show
a little bit by following those 

1644
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,600
links to do so. 
History of westros.com. 

1645
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:45,480
Can I say in the chat people are
sharing different years, It is 

1646
01:19:45,480 --> 01:19:47,520
in different cultures, you know,
like. 

1647
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:52,280
For example, the couch stallion 
says in Thailand it's the year 

1648
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:54,280
2566. 
Oh. 

1649
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:56,280
Nice. 
It's the future, yeah. 

1650
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:01,040
All the top says it's Hebrew 
year 5780. 30 It's the past. 

1651
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:04,840
Yeah, which is where biblical 
literalists get the 6000 years. 

1652
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:06,080
Smart. 
That's the start of their 

1653
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:07,880
calendar. 
It's about almost 6000 years. 

1654
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:09,840
Very cool. 
And then of course, yeah, 

1655
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:12,360
Chinese people have different 
calendars as well. 

1656
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:16,680
So yeah, there are probably, I 
wonder how many total like dates

1657
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:18,520
there are. 
Probably untraceable cuz there's

1658
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:21,880
so many small cultures that 
there's only not that many 

1659
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:24,520
people who are still living in 
that culture, but they might 

1660
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:26,720
have those records somewhere. 
Yeah, there's gotta. 

1661
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:28,840
Be I'm curious what the young 
is. 

1662
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:30,840
Calendar. 
You know, like, yeah, what's the

1663
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:31,640
smallest year? 
What's? 

1664
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:33,600
The smallest year, Yeah. 
That's all. 

1665
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:35,280
These are. 
Farther ahead, they're not. 

1666
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:37,320
It's one minute old. 
I just made it. 

1667
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,280
No, I just made one. 
It's even younger. 

1668
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,160
I made another one. 
No, I made two more. 

1669
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:49,880
Nothing I can do about that. 
You got me? 

1670
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,280
Yeah, I. 
Can keep the spirals going on 

1671
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:53,760
for a long time. 
You can make three more, but I 

1672
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:55,280
don't think you're good enough. 
I'm not. 

1673
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:56,560
You're totally right. 
Yeah. 

1674
01:20:57,440 --> 01:21:00,640
So another point here about the 
audio book. 

1675
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:04,240
If you guys are experienced 
listeners and you hadn't 

1676
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,160
listened to Fire and Blood 
before, you may be like, who is 

1677
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,560
this guy? 
It's not Roy D'trees. 

1678
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:10,120
Yes, of course. 
Unfortunately, Roy D'treese's 

1679
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:13,080
past, so he couldn't read Fire 
and Blood. 

1680
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,040
He did read Part of The World of
Western Fire, part of it. 

1681
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:19,920
And the Sidebars were read by 
another guy whose name I forget.

1682
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:25,200
But Simon Vance has read the 
read Fire and Blood, and he has 

1683
01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:31,800
done a lot of reading various 
audiobooks in this world and the

1684
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,120
real world. 
I mean, yeah, Earth, I mean. 

1685
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:38,120
Let me know when Harry Lloyd 
does it. 

1686
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:40,520
Yeah, give us Harry Lloyd. 
He's so good. 

1687
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,960
I'm taking in Glenn too. 
There's plenty of people that 

1688
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,960
would be fine. 
But I'm very curious how that 

1689
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,880
decision will be made and when 
the time comes, because 

1690
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:51,440
sometimes it's up. 
It's like, well, if Simon 

1691
01:21:51,440 --> 01:21:55,360
Vance's got another project like
he might pivot away cuz this 

1692
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:00,130
one's so big. 
But I don't know, don't know. 

1693
01:22:01,090 --> 01:22:04,690
I just want to say also 
Christina Case is maybe the 

1694
01:22:04,690 --> 01:22:06,290
shortest one to do whatever the 
malware we use. 

1695
01:22:06,890 --> 01:22:14,210
But also, North Korea starts in 
1896 birth down Kim Ilson, so 

1696
01:22:14,210 --> 01:22:15,770
that's probably one of the 
shorter ones. 

1697
01:22:15,930 --> 01:22:18,130
Yeah. 
Might be North Korea. 

1698
01:22:18,170 --> 01:22:20,850
Yeah. 
So their year one is is our year

1699
01:22:20,850 --> 01:22:26,310
1896 US year. 1896, Yes. 
So only 100 and what, 27 years? 

1700
01:22:29,710 --> 01:22:32,350
So earlier the beginning of the 
episode, I mentioned how 

1701
01:22:32,350 --> 01:22:35,830
audiences are more savvy, 
readers are more savvy, we're 

1702
01:22:35,830 --> 01:22:37,830
better at picking things out. 
Sean brought up the excellent 

1703
01:22:37,830 --> 01:22:40,230
point that we discussed these 
things on the Internet now, 

1704
01:22:40,230 --> 01:22:43,350
where the best ideas float to 
the top really quickly. 

1705
01:22:43,350 --> 01:22:46,630
So if one person figures it out 
and the evidence lines up, all 

1706
01:22:46,630 --> 01:22:49,270
of a sudden everybody knows a 
lot of story. 

1707
01:22:49,270 --> 01:22:54,860
Here's a couple of good examples
of this authors changing their 

1708
01:22:54,860 --> 01:22:57,500
plans because fans figure 
something out that has happened 

1709
01:22:57,500 --> 01:23:03,100
on multiple TV shows that has 
happened in the real time book 

1710
01:23:03,100 --> 01:23:07,780
series that happens, and it was 
a big mistake for Robert Jordan 

1711
01:23:07,780 --> 01:23:10,820
to change something that he had 
laid out because fans figured it

1712
01:23:10,820 --> 01:23:12,740
out. 
Like you can't take away that 

1713
01:23:12,740 --> 01:23:15,940
you laid this thing out. 
It's just looks really awkward 

1714
01:23:15,940 --> 01:23:19,180
that this character isn't the 
person that you laid them out to

1715
01:23:19,180 --> 01:23:20,580
be. 
Like a secret identity kind of 

1716
01:23:20,580 --> 01:23:22,420
situation where it's like, Nope,
that's not him after all. 

1717
01:23:22,420 --> 01:23:24,750
Like what? 
How could it not be? 

1718
01:23:24,990 --> 01:23:28,150
It's everything pointed to it. 
Like, Nah, we're just Nah, I 

1719
01:23:28,150 --> 01:23:32,190
just Nah change my mind. 
I don't watch it, but my family 

1720
01:23:32,190 --> 01:23:34,030
does. 
The Blacklist seems to have done

1721
01:23:34,030 --> 01:23:35,430
that too. 
They seem to have been setting 

1722
01:23:35,430 --> 01:23:37,670
something up and the audience 
figured out and they're like, 

1723
01:23:37,670 --> 01:23:39,110
never mind, we're not doing that
after all. 

1724
01:23:39,110 --> 01:23:41,510
And everyone got, yeah, because 
like, no people like to have 

1725
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:43,310
that validation. 
It's like it's not better. 

1726
01:23:43,310 --> 01:23:45,270
It's like the validation of 
figuring out. 

1727
01:23:45,270 --> 01:23:47,510
People for watching and 
analyzing and figuring out. 

1728
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:50,550
Reward them with the correct 
like, it's just like this weird 

1729
01:23:50,590 --> 01:23:52,230
ego move or like, oh, they 
figured it out. 

1730
01:23:52,230 --> 01:23:54,270
So I have to change you. 
Like, no, you're ruining your 

1731
01:23:54,270 --> 01:23:55,670
story, man. 
Don't do that. 

1732
01:23:55,670 --> 01:23:57,110
Yeah. 
So it's a really bad call. 

1733
01:23:57,390 --> 01:24:00,070
So that's why. 
And I think people might, I 

1734
01:24:00,070 --> 01:24:02,230
think creators may have learned 
that lesson pretty quickly 

1735
01:24:02,230 --> 01:24:04,230
hopefully that they're like, no,
don't change the endings. 

1736
01:24:04,230 --> 01:24:05,350
People figured it out. 
Just don't. 

1737
01:24:05,350 --> 01:24:08,310
Just if they figured out, fine, 
they figured it out. 

1738
01:24:08,670 --> 01:24:11,750
No big deal that good for them. 
Like, okay. 

1739
01:24:12,030 --> 01:24:14,710
Maybe next time make the twist a
little harder to figure out. 

1740
01:24:14,710 --> 01:24:17,270
Or I think, I think Lost and 
Westworld both had this issue as

1741
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:19,510
well, just to to a certain 
degree. 

1742
01:24:19,870 --> 01:24:22,070
And both those shows, in my 
opinion, went downhill pretty 

1743
01:24:22,070 --> 01:24:29,510
badly not only for that reason 
but you know, anyway, so this is

1744
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:32,870
my argument for maybe a little 
excess back story. 

1745
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:36,910
A little excess history is a 
good thing because it's harder 

1746
01:24:36,910 --> 01:24:39,110
to figure out twists and what's 
coming. 

1747
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:41,310
Throw in a little extraneous 
information. 

1748
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:43,030
It can be fun if it's well 
written. 

1749
01:24:43,030 --> 01:24:45,230
It can add to the world and fill
it out a little more. 

1750
01:24:45,390 --> 01:24:49,370
If it happens to not serve the 
main story, Well, arguably it 

1751
01:24:49,370 --> 01:24:52,250
does serve the main story. 
If it's concealing the truths 

1752
01:24:52,250 --> 01:24:54,810
you're trying to conceal, then 
that does serve the main story. 

1753
01:24:54,810 --> 01:24:58,730
It doesn't serve it as directly 
as adding to the evidentiary 

1754
01:24:58,730 --> 01:25:03,010
body of what you're trying to 
slowly bring people into. 

1755
01:25:03,370 --> 01:25:06,290
But hey, the world's changed 
Internet exists. 

1756
01:25:06,690 --> 01:25:08,410
Authors got to do things a 
little differently. 

1757
01:25:08,730 --> 01:25:10,730
Don't ruin your story over it 
though. 

1758
01:25:11,650 --> 01:25:13,410
Soapbox ran over. 
But yeah, it happens. 

1759
01:25:13,410 --> 01:25:15,650
It's happened so many Times Now 
and I don't remember it ever 

1760
01:25:15,650 --> 01:25:17,950
happening when I was young. 
And you know it's like a new 

1761
01:25:17,950 --> 01:25:20,310
phenomenon, Authors changing the
ending because people figuring 

1762
01:25:20,310 --> 01:25:24,550
things out shows and books. 
So George is kind of already 

1763
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:27,870
sort of his style already kind 
of work to this. 

1764
01:25:28,390 --> 01:25:30,910
Plus he leaves us hanging for a 
long time. 

1765
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:35,830
You know, there's that we we get
to think about it and we still 

1766
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:38,950
haven't figured it out like 
well, I mean it there's a lot of

1767
01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:41,350
things we've we've probably 
figured out, but there's still a

1768
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:43,950
lot of mysteries that we haven't
because George did a good job of

1769
01:25:43,950 --> 01:25:45,550
setting them up. 
These are well written 

1770
01:25:45,550 --> 01:25:48,920
mysteries, so some of it. 
Is that is another thing about 

1771
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:51,920
having a very another thing 
about having a very broad deep 

1772
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,760
story is there are more 
different things to figure out, 

1773
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:59,080
things that might not be 
directly tied to the central 

1774
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:00,840
storyline. 
Well what if you don't even have

1775
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,000
a central storyline, right? 
Like having a bigger world that 

1776
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,080
you have a lot of concurrently 
running, interweaving storylines

1777
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,320
and people can figure one or two
but not all of them you. 

1778
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:12,600
It gives you the ability to go 
off track two different 

1779
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:16,300
storylines to different. 
Continents or whatever else that

1780
01:26:16,300 --> 01:26:18,580
you have set up in there, 
whether it's because you think 

1781
01:26:18,580 --> 01:26:20,540
it's something new or you're 
worried about people figuring 

1782
01:26:20,540 --> 01:26:23,660
out or whatever, it is like one 
of the types of discourse that 

1783
01:26:24,020 --> 01:26:27,180
comes in a lot of fandoms is 
like people, especially somewhat

1784
01:26:27,180 --> 01:26:29,460
unique to a song device. 
And Fire fandom is people trying

1785
01:26:29,460 --> 01:26:33,860
to apply standard things to a 
song device. 

1786
01:26:33,860 --> 01:26:36,300
And fire like, who's the main 
character? 

1787
01:26:36,300 --> 01:26:38,780
Like, well, there isn't one. 
What was it again? 

1788
01:26:38,780 --> 01:26:39,580
But if there is, who would it 
be? 

1789
01:26:39,580 --> 01:26:41,380
Like? 
Why do you need that? 

1790
01:26:41,380 --> 01:26:43,140
Like, why? 
Why put it in that box? 

1791
01:26:43,140 --> 01:26:45,140
It doesn't fit in that box. 
People talk about things like 

1792
01:26:45,140 --> 01:26:47,180
the Big 5 and like stuff like 
that. 

1793
01:26:47,180 --> 01:26:49,860
They're like, well, we have to 
have who who's our core has. 

1794
01:26:50,180 --> 01:26:54,340
We don't. 
I agree that people do say that,

1795
01:26:54,340 --> 01:26:55,180
but yeah. 
Why, though? 

1796
01:26:55,220 --> 01:26:57,620
I will say I I want to bring a 
counterpoint up. 

1797
01:26:57,620 --> 01:26:59,660
Is it? 
Sometimes it does make it easier

1798
01:26:59,660 --> 01:27:04,500
to pitch to your friends or or 
market to the audience. 

1799
01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:07,100
There's some value to it, but 
even still. 

1800
01:27:07,780 --> 01:27:10,660
When I I'm thinking about when I
started watching Game of Thrones

1801
01:27:11,060 --> 01:27:15,140
what I did each episode is I 
wrote down the characters and a 

1802
01:27:15,140 --> 01:27:18,900
line between each character 
interacted with each other and 

1803
01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:21,700
so I could start to see who had 
the most lines coming into and 

1804
01:27:21,700 --> 01:27:24,260
out of them and OK, those are 
quote UN quote the main 

1805
01:27:24,260 --> 01:27:26,700
characters. 
So it was hard for me to know 

1806
01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:28,300
that was like 8 or nine of them,
you know I. 

1807
01:27:28,460 --> 01:27:31,180
Feel like those are just the the
hinge characters, the 

1808
01:27:31,180 --> 01:27:33,140
linchpincker. 
Those are the characters that 

1809
01:27:33,300 --> 01:27:35,300
left other characters that might
have the most line like. 

1810
01:27:35,710 --> 01:27:37,790
Maybe doesn't make it. 
Maybe like a Sam. 

1811
01:27:37,830 --> 01:27:40,030
Charlie might have had a lot of 
lines connecting, but you might 

1812
01:27:40,030 --> 01:27:43,950
not have said he's the main 
character compared to John. 

1813
01:27:43,950 --> 01:27:45,550
I mean, I love him, but you 
know. 

1814
01:27:45,990 --> 01:27:48,870
And sometimes the character's 
position in the story in and of 

1815
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:52,070
itself might make them seem more
main, like the king. 

1816
01:27:52,070 --> 01:27:54,750
Like Robert might have seen more
main because he's the king you 

1817
01:27:54,750 --> 01:27:58,750
know but he he was tertiary 
secondary at best you know or or

1818
01:27:58,750 --> 01:28:02,150
or if you divide it by book like
you could maybe maybe Ned Stark 

1819
01:28:02,150 --> 01:28:03,670
is the main character of book 
one. 

1820
01:28:03,670 --> 01:28:04,950
That's. 
What I was going to say, that's 

1821
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:07,470
what I was deducing as I was 
watching the first season. 

1822
01:28:07,470 --> 01:28:10,670
I was like, OK, I'm pretty sure 
it's Ned, pretty sure he's main 

1823
01:28:10,670 --> 01:28:12,070
character and you got his head 
shot though. 

1824
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:16,230
He was the main character for 
the first seven episode Roads, 

1825
01:28:16,230 --> 01:28:25,110
but yeah, not anymore. 
This is also a reminder of how 

1826
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:26,830
big of an unknown magic is in 
this era. 

1827
01:28:26,830 --> 01:28:32,190
Now we know from quote UN quote 
low magic area zones or times 

1828
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:34,030
that dreams are always 
happening. 

1829
01:28:34,030 --> 01:28:36,550
Like dreams never seem to 
completely fall off. 

1830
01:28:36,550 --> 01:28:39,270
Like Darren, the dreamers having
dreams in a low in a socalled 

1831
01:28:39,270 --> 01:28:42,470
low magic era. 
Melisandre was having dreams and

1832
01:28:42,470 --> 01:28:46,990
stuff and it's more of an ebb 
and flow than it is an off and 

1833
01:28:46,990 --> 01:28:49,910
on, I think. 
Darren and Duncan Egg, right? 

1834
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:50,750
Yeah, that's Darren. 
Yeah. 

1835
01:28:51,710 --> 01:28:55,310
Like, this is something we 
talked about in our Before the 

1836
01:28:55,310 --> 01:28:59,110
Dragons episode, but it was more
aimed at the various houses of 

1837
01:28:59,110 --> 01:29:02,030
Westeros in the mainland and 
less aimed at egg on and the 

1838
01:29:02,030 --> 01:29:05,030
Targaryens. 
But it's a big unknown there 

1839
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:09,030
too, of course. 
Do they have glass candles or 

1840
01:29:09,030 --> 01:29:11,550
the glass candles burning at 
this time or not? 

1841
01:29:11,550 --> 01:29:16,340
Were they? 
How were the hinges of the world

1842
01:29:16,340 --> 01:29:18,940
behaving? 
You know, Were they like, full 

1843
01:29:18,940 --> 01:29:22,180
of energy, or were they a little
at a low point? 

1844
01:29:22,940 --> 01:29:27,460
Maybe the fact that Aegon's 
dreams were so potent in this 

1845
01:29:27,460 --> 01:29:29,700
era? 
I'm assuming they were, which 

1846
01:29:29,700 --> 01:29:31,220
maybe they weren't. 
Maybe they were more faint and 

1847
01:29:31,220 --> 01:29:32,420
faded. 
Maybe that's why they were 

1848
01:29:32,420 --> 01:29:35,100
vague. 
Or maybe they weren't so sure. 

1849
01:29:35,220 --> 01:29:38,020
But maybe they were really 
vivid, and that is a reflection 

1850
01:29:38,020 --> 01:29:41,460
of the magic of this era. 
The conduits are stronger the 

1851
01:29:41,500 --> 01:29:45,910
the tendrils of dreaming. 
The ebb and flow is more 

1852
01:29:45,910 --> 01:29:48,510
powerful in this time. 
It's a flow rather than an ebb 

1853
01:29:48,510 --> 01:29:52,030
at this time. 
Maybe the moon being closer 

1854
01:29:52,030 --> 01:29:54,830
matters or different comet. 
Maybe there was a comet in this 

1855
01:29:54,830 --> 01:29:57,710
time. 
Maybe there was a red comet or a

1856
01:29:57,710 --> 01:30:01,350
blue comet or a green comet. 
Some other colored comet, a 

1857
01:30:01,350 --> 01:30:05,290
black and red comet for the for 
house targarian, you know, 

1858
01:30:05,530 --> 01:30:07,930
wouldn't take much. 
For a pink comment, a pink 

1859
01:30:07,930 --> 01:30:12,090
comment, you would the Barbie 
comment, No, that's what it 

1860
01:30:12,130 --> 01:30:13,730
would be. 
Now, before it was about you. 

1861
01:30:13,730 --> 01:30:19,530
Now it would be about Barbie. 
So of course, an unanswerable 

1862
01:30:19,530 --> 01:30:24,010
question, very compelling, very 
fun to think about, though, and 

1863
01:30:24,010 --> 01:30:25,410
one that we'll probably never 
get tired of. 

1864
01:30:25,850 --> 01:30:28,610
We talked a little about before 
about why the prior Targaryen 

1865
01:30:28,610 --> 01:30:30,290
can take about Westeros. 
If we're backing up to that 

1866
01:30:30,290 --> 01:30:33,250
topic just a little bit, we can 
talk about how the Prophecy 

1867
01:30:33,250 --> 01:30:36,420
leads into that and how this 
creates parallels. 

1868
01:30:36,420 --> 01:30:39,780
Like I said, Stan is parallel 
but different parallels here. 

1869
01:30:40,460 --> 01:30:45,220
Daenerys and Stannis 3 Dragons 
quest for a throne and dreams. 

1870
01:30:45,300 --> 01:30:48,140
Because let's not forget 
Daenerys has had a lot of dreams

1871
01:30:48,140 --> 01:30:50,820
of her own building up to the 
hatching of the Dragons and then

1872
01:30:50,820 --> 01:30:55,420
after that she's having visions 
that are maybe given to her. 

1873
01:30:55,820 --> 01:30:58,980
That's a whole nother topic, but
the dream she has before the 

1874
01:30:58,980 --> 01:31:01,060
hatching of the Dragons might be
given to her as well. 

1875
01:31:01,060 --> 01:31:05,600
But there seems to be a 
difference between the quality 

1876
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:09,000
and even quantity and the way 
they manifest. 

1877
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:11,000
What about the quality, the 
quavity? 

1878
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,120
Yeah, the quavity, The quavity 
as well, the quavity and 

1879
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:19,000
quality. 
And with that, we maybe see that

1880
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:22,560
someone is maybe adding to her 
dreams or giving her more dreams

1881
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:26,120
to lead her on this path of 
saving the world, whether it's 

1882
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:29,080
Claith or people with Claith or 
other people entirely. 

1883
01:31:29,850 --> 01:31:31,570
So we have to consider that a 
thing for Agon. 

1884
01:31:31,610 --> 01:31:33,330
Maybe someone was manipulating 
his dreams. 

1885
01:31:33,330 --> 01:31:34,810
Maybe someone was giving him 
dreams. 

1886
01:31:35,970 --> 01:31:39,370
Either way, the painted table 
scenes really drive home the 

1887
01:31:39,370 --> 01:31:43,330
similarities between this early 
phase of preparing to conquer 

1888
01:31:43,330 --> 01:31:45,890
and getting all the ideas 
together and realizing that, 

1889
01:31:45,890 --> 01:31:48,330
well, this won't be enough, we 
need more. 

1890
01:31:49,490 --> 01:31:57,130
But if he's arguing like Stannis
did, that it needs to be done 

1891
01:31:57,500 --> 01:32:00,100
well. 
We've got this status quote to, 

1892
01:32:01,140 --> 01:32:05,500
again, maybe help frame the 
argument he would have made to 

1893
01:32:05,500 --> 01:32:08,140
his own people, trying to win 
them over on what would be very 

1894
01:32:08,140 --> 01:32:10,220
difficult thing. 
Like, yes, he's the kid, he's 

1895
01:32:10,220 --> 01:32:13,580
their Lord, he wants to be a 
king, and the Velarians and the 

1896
01:32:13,580 --> 01:32:15,180
Celtic Guards are going to do 
what he says. 

1897
01:32:15,180 --> 01:32:19,220
But they might have pushed back 
quite a lot against this idea. 

1898
01:32:19,220 --> 01:32:21,260
Been like, yo, this is a huge 
endeavor. 

1899
01:32:21,260 --> 01:32:26,450
This could really backfire. 
So if they aren't bought in, in 

1900
01:32:26,450 --> 01:32:29,130
terms of their own ambition, 
like think of all the rewards 

1901
01:32:29,130 --> 01:32:35,570
you'll win, then this is where 
it comes back to duty and 

1902
01:32:36,170 --> 01:32:39,010
prophecy. 
And here we go, Stannis's quote 

1903
01:32:39,010 --> 01:32:42,210
to Davos. 
His hand swept across the 

1904
01:32:42,210 --> 01:32:45,650
painted table. 
How many boys dwell in Westeros?

1905
01:32:46,290 --> 01:32:48,610
How many girls? 
How many men? 

1906
01:32:49,050 --> 01:32:52,570
How many women? 
The darkness will devour them 

1907
01:32:52,570 --> 01:32:55,730
all, she says. 
The night that never ends. 

1908
01:32:56,290 --> 01:33:01,490
She talks of prophecies, A hero 
reborn in the sea, living 

1909
01:33:01,490 --> 01:33:06,730
Dragons hatched from dead stone.
She speaks of signs and swears. 

1910
01:33:06,890 --> 01:33:10,250
They point to me. 
I never asked for this, no more 

1911
01:33:10,250 --> 01:33:13,930
than I asked to be king. 
Yet dare I disregard her. 

1912
01:33:14,410 --> 01:33:21,970
He ground his teeth. 
We do not choose our destinies, 

1913
01:33:22,090 --> 01:33:25,460
yet we must. 
We must do our duty. 

1914
01:33:25,500 --> 01:33:27,540
No. 
Great or small. 

1915
01:33:27,780 --> 01:33:30,860
We must do our duty. 
That's Stannis for you. 

1916
01:33:30,860 --> 01:33:33,540
That's perhaps the most. 
The grinding of the teeth, the 

1917
01:33:33,540 --> 01:33:36,300
grinding of the teeth and the 
going on and on about duty. 

1918
01:33:36,300 --> 01:33:39,860
That's that's the like, if you 
had to pick a the most Stannis 

1919
01:33:40,780 --> 01:33:42,740
moment, that might be it right 
there. 

1920
01:33:44,100 --> 01:33:46,980
Yeah. 
All this, like, twisted logic 

1921
01:33:46,980 --> 01:33:51,060
that might be right in this talk
of duty and the grinding teeth. 

1922
01:33:51,060 --> 01:33:52,740
Yeah, that's Stannis, the three 
things, right. 

1923
01:33:52,740 --> 01:33:58,020
So as you pointed out very well 
earlier, Sean, the she is 

1924
01:33:58,020 --> 01:34:00,620
Melisandre here is referring to.
The darkness will devour them 

1925
01:34:00,620 --> 01:34:03,340
all, she says. 
And Aegon's dream, well, the 

1926
01:34:03,340 --> 01:34:08,140
darkness will devour them all, 
my dreams say, right, Aegon of 

1927
01:34:08,140 --> 01:34:10,980
course wouldn't be concerned 
with Dragons from stone or a 

1928
01:34:10,980 --> 01:34:14,020
hero reborn in the sea, but he 
would have his own little 

1929
01:34:14,020 --> 01:34:17,220
details from his dreams that 
might be relevant to their 

1930
01:34:17,220 --> 01:34:19,420
timeline. 
Little, I don't know. 

1931
01:34:20,820 --> 01:34:24,220
Maybe he's a hero from the sea. 
You know he's from an island 

1932
01:34:24,220 --> 01:34:26,820
landing on the mainland. 
The stone Dragons, though, that 

1933
01:34:26,820 --> 01:34:28,260
part, not much way to fit that 
one. 

1934
01:34:28,300 --> 01:34:32,980
But still, there'd be other 
signs and portents relevant to 

1935
01:34:32,980 --> 01:34:36,860
his time, and he would be a lot 
of concerned with a lot of these

1936
01:34:36,860 --> 01:34:40,980
same things, like doing his duty
and darkness enveloping the 

1937
01:34:40,980 --> 01:34:42,740
whole continent. 
Like that's a bad thing. 

1938
01:34:42,740 --> 01:34:44,940
There's lots of things that pop 
up in Santos and Melsandre's 

1939
01:34:44,940 --> 01:34:47,500
chapters that would be very 
similar for Agon. 

1940
01:34:48,380 --> 01:34:51,140
Not to mention look at this 
other parallel, which is gonna 

1941
01:34:51,140 --> 01:34:53,060
lead us to our next section. 
Nicely. 

1942
01:34:53,100 --> 01:34:57,260
Nice segue action here. 
Melisandre isn't Stannis's wife,

1943
01:34:58,300 --> 01:35:01,700
but is kind of like a wife. 
She's kind of like a wife, kind 

1944
01:35:01,700 --> 01:35:04,980
of like a second wife. 
Aegon has two wives. 

1945
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:09,220
Maybe one of them is a little 
more dutiful and the other ones 

1946
01:35:09,220 --> 01:35:11,820
a little more head in the clouds
about prophecy and stuff. 

1947
01:35:11,860 --> 01:35:14,940
Maybe it's it's not the exact 
same mix, Vesenia and Rainy, so 

1948
01:35:14,940 --> 01:35:17,940
aren't going to be like carbon 
copies of Melisandre and Solis. 

1949
01:35:17,940 --> 01:35:20,620
Of course, plenty of differences
there, just as Stannis has 

1950
01:35:20,620 --> 01:35:23,660
plenty of differences from Agon,
but there's some very notable 

1951
01:35:23,660 --> 01:35:26,780
parallels here. 
Even Danny has that to a lesser 

1952
01:35:26,780 --> 01:35:28,820
extent. 
She married his DAR but hooked 

1953
01:35:28,820 --> 01:35:30,980
up with Dario and that's what 
said about Agon. 

1954
01:35:30,980 --> 01:35:34,260
He married Vesenia out of duty 
and Rainy set a desire. 

1955
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:36,000
Of course there could be more to
it. 

1956
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:37,520
There also, like there is for 
Danny. 

1957
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,040
There's more to it there. 
And with Danny there's more to 

1958
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,720
come. 
She'll probably remarry and 

1959
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:46,440
probably have other lovers, or 
maybe one of each maybe, I don't

1960
01:35:46,440 --> 01:35:48,680
know. 
But but she's not done with just

1961
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:50,680
with his darn darn or not the 
end of it. 

1962
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:52,040
I think we can be pretty sure 
about that. 

1963
01:35:53,880 --> 01:35:55,200
And so that brings us to this 
next section. 

1964
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:59,120
As I said, polygamy, and how 
Agon's choice to marry two wives

1965
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:02,440
has had farreaching 
consequences, Of course is 

1966
01:36:03,020 --> 01:36:05,260
conquest has had far reaching 
consequences too. 

1967
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:07,300
That's a little more 
straightforward in some ways. 

1968
01:36:08,420 --> 01:36:12,300
It's this sort of framing device
for the entire story. 

1969
01:36:12,300 --> 01:36:14,140
But the polygamy is more of an 
internal like. 

1970
01:36:14,620 --> 01:36:18,580
There's more wiggle room here. 
It's a little more tricky to see

1971
01:36:18,580 --> 01:36:24,340
how it affects things like when 
we delve through our tomes and 

1972
01:36:24,340 --> 01:36:29,100
sources here lore. 
The quote from Tyrion comes to 

1973
01:36:29,100 --> 01:36:31,540
mind, which is we're all just 
puppets dancing on the strings 

1974
01:36:31,540 --> 01:36:33,590
of those came before us. 
Part of that is him. 

1975
01:36:33,590 --> 01:36:37,550
He's more thinking of recent 
memory of like your father and 

1976
01:36:37,550 --> 01:36:40,110
mother like have so much control
over your life. 

1977
01:36:41,110 --> 01:36:49,070
But he's also alluding to, well,
if his ancestor Land the Clever 

1978
01:36:49,070 --> 01:36:52,710
hadn't done what he did, then he
wouldn't be a Lord of castly 

1979
01:36:52,710 --> 01:36:58,190
rock himself. 
So huge domino effects of what 

1980
01:36:58,190 --> 01:37:00,390
our ancestors do. 
Some more than others though. 

1981
01:37:00,390 --> 01:37:03,700
I mean Agon one of the biggest 
ever in that case. 

1982
01:37:03,700 --> 01:37:10,180
So past actions by powerful 
nations or people are the same 

1983
01:37:10,180 --> 01:37:13,420
puppet strings metaphor writ 
large. 

1984
01:37:13,820 --> 01:37:18,220
It sets the stage for later and 
it can be large scale like war, 

1985
01:37:18,220 --> 01:37:21,060
like a conquest, or relatively 
small event like a marriage, or 

1986
01:37:21,060 --> 01:37:26,500
in this case 2 marriages which 
is a such a bigger deal than 

1987
01:37:26,500 --> 01:37:28,860
just one at least at the same 
time. 

1988
01:37:29,230 --> 01:37:32,110
Let's look at the consequences 
of Aegon's marriage decisions 

1989
01:37:32,270 --> 01:37:38,110
first, with another quote. 
It had long been the custom 

1990
01:37:38,110 --> 01:37:41,750
amongst the Dragon Lords of 
Illyria to wed brother to sister

1991
01:37:42,030 --> 01:37:45,830
to keep the bloodlines pure, but
Aegon took both his sisters to 

1992
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:48,750
bride. 
By tradition, he would have been

1993
01:37:48,750 --> 01:37:51,870
expected to wed only his older 
sister Vasenya. 

1994
01:37:52,230 --> 01:37:56,470
The inclusion of Rainey's as a 
second wife was unusual, though 

1995
01:37:56,470 --> 01:38:00,780
not without precedent. 
It was said by some that Aegon 

1996
01:38:00,780 --> 01:38:04,380
wed Vasenia out of duty and 
Rainy's out of desire. 

1997
01:38:05,100 --> 01:38:07,420
It doesn't appear to have 
happened with any of the other 

1998
01:38:07,420 --> 01:38:10,020
Lords of Dragonstone, any of his
recent ancestors born in 

1999
01:38:10,020 --> 01:38:11,460
Westeros. 
We have no evidence of a 

2000
01:38:11,460 --> 01:38:16,820
multiple of a polygamous 
marriage, so it's it's sort of 

2001
01:38:18,340 --> 01:38:20,740
wishy washy. 
The way it's presented it's like

2002
01:38:22,900 --> 01:38:25,180
unusual, but not without 
precedent. 

2003
01:38:25,220 --> 01:38:28,100
Like this is a pretty wide 
bookends, like not without 

2004
01:38:28,100 --> 01:38:30,340
precedent means hardly ever 
happens. 

2005
01:38:30,860 --> 01:38:34,340
Not unusual. 
That doesn't sound, doesn't 

2006
01:38:34,340 --> 01:38:37,500
sound that severe, you know. 
So there's a pretty big wiggle 

2007
01:38:37,500 --> 01:38:38,980
room now. 
I think partly they don't know. 

2008
01:38:39,260 --> 01:38:42,260
I think the Maesters aren't that
versed in how often it would 

2009
01:38:42,260 --> 01:38:45,180
have happened back in Valeri. 
I mean, we don't have a lot 

2010
01:38:45,180 --> 01:38:48,260
about Valeri in general, 
especially about customs and 

2011
01:38:48,260 --> 01:38:52,220
laws and just how basic parts of
their society even operated in 

2012
01:38:52,220 --> 01:38:55,860
terms of laws and like customs 
and traditions. 

2013
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:00,200
But here's a small clue into 
that window. 

2014
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:03,640
Apparently it has happened 
before, and maybe that's in part

2015
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:05,880
because of some of the magical 
bloodline stuff. 

2016
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:09,880
I'm not exactly sure why that 
would be the case here, but it 

2017
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:12,400
makes sense because we have 
pretty strong evidence that 

2018
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:16,000
there is magical blood in the 
Targaryen's that both explains 

2019
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:20,640
their affinity for Dragons and 
why perhaps they don't have the 

2020
01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:24,480
normal consequences of incest 
that you would see in the real 

2021
01:39:24,480 --> 01:39:30,110
world so well, or you have a 
reduced version of that, perhaps

2022
01:39:30,110 --> 01:39:32,950
not, not the severity you would 
see in the real world. 

2023
01:39:35,030 --> 01:39:39,230
So it absolutely has severe 
consequences with Megor. 

2024
01:39:40,070 --> 01:39:41,630
Megor decides to take a second 
life. 

2025
01:39:42,310 --> 01:39:45,910
It blows up badly and he's like,
well and for a penny and for a 

2026
01:39:45,910 --> 01:39:47,190
pound. 
Let's go three. 

2027
01:39:47,190 --> 01:39:50,150
Let's go 456. 
As we talked about in our Under 

2028
01:39:50,150 --> 01:39:52,710
the Dragons Hightower episode, 
why didn't he go 7. 

2029
01:39:54,110 --> 01:39:56,430
The seven. 
It's the religion that well cuz 

2030
01:39:56,430 --> 01:39:59,030
he's fighting against the seven.
I don't know Meg or is not very 

2031
01:39:59,030 --> 01:40:01,310
creative. 
Neither were his neither was his

2032
01:40:01,310 --> 01:40:01,990
core. 
But we're not. 

2033
01:40:01,990 --> 01:40:04,270
We're well before Meg or now 
let's not. 

2034
01:40:04,270 --> 01:40:07,190
Let's stay where we are. 
It comes up in Damon Blackfire 

2035
01:40:07,190 --> 01:40:09,230
story as a potential 
possibility. 

2036
01:40:09,230 --> 01:40:11,350
Something that's rumored. 
He maybe thought he could have 

2037
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:13,870
two wives if he'd become king. 
He might have. 

2038
01:40:15,030 --> 01:40:18,830
It could absolutely play out in 
the story of Ray Gar and Liana 

2039
01:40:19,870 --> 01:40:21,750
in the show's version. 
It totally did. 

2040
01:40:22,830 --> 01:40:27,270
The doctrine of exceptionalism 
is important to point out here. 

2041
01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:28,750
We're going to cover that when 
we get to it. 

2042
01:40:28,750 --> 01:40:31,070
But it doesn't exist at this 
point yet, obviously. 

2043
01:40:31,510 --> 01:40:36,470
But it does exist for after 
Regor and Liana. 

2044
01:40:37,110 --> 01:40:39,190
But it didn't exist at the time 
of Megor. 

2045
01:40:39,190 --> 01:40:43,270
So that's an important to keep 
in mind that times change. 

2046
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:47,510
Doctor of Exceptionalism was 
developed and the whole thing 

2047
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:51,030
changed. 
The whole custom, the whole 

2048
01:40:51,030 --> 01:40:55,580
attitude towards it. 
So one of the other immediate 

2049
01:40:55,580 --> 01:40:58,180
shortterm effects it has is 
there's a number of Lords and 

2050
01:40:58,180 --> 01:41:04,420
ladies, some of them former 
Queens will offer third wives to

2051
01:41:04,420 --> 01:41:07,820
Agon, which they would never 
have done if he just had one. 

2052
01:41:08,060 --> 01:41:10,100
You know, the 2nd is the big 
leap. 

2053
01:41:10,140 --> 01:41:11,780
You're not like, well, what's 
the third if you've already got 

2054
01:41:11,780 --> 01:41:14,020
two? 
It's the having going from 1:00 

2055
01:41:14,020 --> 01:41:16,460
to 2:00. 
That's the huge difference, 

2056
01:41:16,860 --> 01:41:19,220
right? 
But if if you're someone who 

2057
01:41:19,220 --> 01:41:23,160
thinks that it's either monogamy
one or many you don't like, you 

2058
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:26,160
don't really distinguish 
necessarily between 2345 or like

2059
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:28,560
well, if you're going beyond 
one, why would you stop there 

2060
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:31,560
They don't get. 
It especially with the mentality

2061
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:35,920
the, the the I don't know male 
dominated world that we have 

2062
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:39,480
here so absolutely so the queen 
region of the Vale. 

2063
01:41:39,480 --> 01:41:43,400
Shara Aaron's like, I'll be your
third wife, but only if you name

2064
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:47,720
my son your heir, which is like,
well, that is a big ask and sure

2065
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:49,400
to be turned down, which indeed 
it was. 

2066
01:41:50,300 --> 01:41:51,740
She knew it would probably be 
rejected. 

2067
01:41:51,740 --> 01:41:54,820
But you know, you make this 
public declaration of of your 

2068
01:41:54,820 --> 01:41:56,300
value. 
You're like, well, I'm good 

2069
01:41:56,300 --> 01:42:01,220
enough to be in this Targaryen 
wives club and my son. 

2070
01:42:01,220 --> 01:42:03,820
And if I am well, then I'm equal
to you. 

2071
01:42:03,860 --> 01:42:06,260
My son should come first. 
She's the he's the oldest one. 

2072
01:42:06,260 --> 01:42:08,940
It's like, well, your son isn't 
the son of the king, though. 

2073
01:42:10,660 --> 01:42:15,150
Anyway, it was a big ask, but, 
you know, a bold, bold choice. 

2074
01:42:15,150 --> 01:42:16,310
Cotton. 
We'll see how it works out for 

2075
01:42:16,310 --> 01:42:17,510
her. 
It didn't, but it didn't have 

2076
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:19,990
any consequences either. 
He just said, you know, no, and 

2077
01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:22,510
that was that. 
So no biggie, right? 

2078
01:42:23,470 --> 01:42:26,550
It's rumored later that Manfred 
Hightower offered one of his 

2079
01:42:26,550 --> 01:42:28,150
daughters to egg on as a third 
wife. 

2080
01:42:28,150 --> 01:42:30,670
That's a rumor. 
We don't know about it, and it 

2081
01:42:30,670 --> 01:42:33,790
comes more like after the 
conquest rather than before it. 

2082
01:42:35,310 --> 01:42:39,330
But first of the Mall was King 
Argalac the arrogant who 

2083
01:42:39,330 --> 01:42:42,810
proposed the marriage of his one
daughter, his only child, to 

2084
01:42:42,810 --> 01:42:45,410
Agar. 
This one did escalate. 

2085
01:42:45,650 --> 01:42:50,690
Unlike Queen Regent Shara, there
was no consequences for the 

2086
01:42:51,090 --> 01:42:54,490
proposal. 
This one had a lot of problems, 

2087
01:42:54,490 --> 01:42:57,970
though, and we're also going to 
see issues and successes much, 

2088
01:42:57,970 --> 01:43:00,650
much later with Dragonstone. 
And storms end in various 

2089
01:43:00,650 --> 01:43:02,930
marriages. 
If you think ahead to, you know,

2090
01:43:02,930 --> 01:43:07,920
the Laughing Storm and his maybe
son, Lionel Baratheon, having 

2091
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:11,040
that trial by combat with Dunk. 
Yeah. 

2092
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:12,960
And yeah, there's some, of 
course. 

2093
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:16,560
Stannis is, of course, his 
grandmother is Targaryen. 

2094
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:20,240
Robert and Renly too, of course.
So there's a lot of these houses

2095
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:23,560
have a lot of history to come. 
This is just the start of it. 

2096
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:27,840
Now let's talk briefly about our
Galac before we get into a 

2097
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:29,880
little more of this. 
Interesting that he only has his

2098
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:32,200
one maiden daughter. 
He's an old man at this point, 

2099
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:34,680
still capable of fighting a good
warrior. 

2100
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:40,640
Still, despite having lost some 
of his luster through time, it 

2101
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:43,440
sounds like he's at least in his
50s, maybe late 50s, maybe early

2102
01:43:43,440 --> 01:43:46,000
60s. 
So it's unusual that he only has

2103
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:47,720
a young maiden daughter as his 
only kid. 

2104
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:53,080
I recall from our Before the 
Dragons episode, Nina floated 

2105
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:58,360
the idea that since Argalac also
fought against the volunteers 

2106
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:01,840
like Agon did right after the 
Doom when they were trying to 

2107
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:06,360
reestablish or establish a new 
empire over the remains of 

2108
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,000
Illyria. 
Argalac and Agon were sort of 

2109
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,720
allies fighting against that 
those imperial pretensions. 

2110
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:18,000
Nina suggests that Argalac had 
probably had some sons or maybe 

2111
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:21,390
brothers or uncles that 
participated in those wars. 

2112
01:44:21,390 --> 01:44:23,110
And maybe that's why they're not
around anymore. 

2113
01:44:23,110 --> 01:44:26,110
Because it is weird for a guy in
his 50s or 60s to only have one 

2114
01:44:26,670 --> 01:44:28,950
young daughter, youngish 
daughter, like if he had an 

2115
01:44:28,950 --> 01:44:31,470
older daughter, you know, OK, 
well, fine, You know, he had her

2116
01:44:31,470 --> 01:44:33,830
a long time ago, But where are 
all those other kids? 

2117
01:44:33,830 --> 01:44:35,430
You know, he would have had kids
when he was young and they're 

2118
01:44:35,430 --> 01:44:37,430
not there anymore. 
So he outlets outlived them, 

2119
01:44:37,870 --> 01:44:39,190
which is important to think 
about. 

2120
01:44:39,190 --> 01:44:43,630
Like this is he's kind of a sour
old guy. 

2121
01:44:44,190 --> 01:44:45,870
So maybe this is part of why 
he's sour. 

2122
01:44:45,870 --> 01:44:49,320
Is he lost? 
Definitely lost a wife because 

2123
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:50,840
he doesn't have. 
He's not married as far as we 

2124
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:53,240
know at this point. 
Surprised multiple probably has 

2125
01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:55,080
had multiple wives and lost 
multiple wives because I'm 

2126
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:58,920
guessing Argella, this daughter 
is not from his first wife 

2127
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:02,160
because where were the kids when
he was younger, right? 

2128
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:07,520
It just doesn't really add up. 
So the buffer is what we're 

2129
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,920
calling this next part. 
This is Argalax attempt to play 

2130
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:17,050
politics and create a new 
border, a new state between him 

2131
01:45:17,050 --> 01:45:21,210
and the encroachment of the 
greatest, most powerful king in 

2132
01:45:21,210 --> 01:45:25,290
Westeros at the time, which is 
King Heron the Black, who has 

2133
01:45:25,290 --> 01:45:27,210
been a problem for our Galac for
a while. 

2134
01:45:27,730 --> 01:45:32,010
Here's the quote. 
No king in Westeros felt more 

2135
01:45:32,010 --> 01:45:35,250
threatened than our Galac, the 
Storm King, last of the 

2136
01:45:35,250 --> 01:45:39,170
Durandin, an aging warrior whose
only heir was his maiden 

2137
01:45:39,170 --> 01:45:42,010
daughter. 
Thus it was the king, our Galac,

2138
01:45:42,250 --> 01:45:44,890
reached out to the Targaryens on
Dragonstone. 

2139
01:45:45,330 --> 01:45:49,490
Offering Lord Aegon his daughter
in marriage with all the lands 

2140
01:45:49,610 --> 01:45:53,570
east of the God's Eye from the 
Trident to the Blackwater Rush 

2141
01:45:53,810 --> 01:45:58,050
as her dowry, Aegon Targaryen, 
spurned the Storm King's 

2142
01:45:58,050 --> 01:46:01,010
proposal. 
He had two wives, he pointed 

2143
01:46:01,010 --> 01:46:04,490
out. 
He did not need a third, and the

2144
01:46:04,490 --> 01:46:08,210
Dowerlands being offered had 
belonged to Heron Hall for more 

2145
01:46:08,210 --> 01:46:11,650
than a generation. 
They were not our Galax, to give

2146
01:46:12,330 --> 01:46:15,280
plainly. 
The aging Storm King meant to 

2147
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:19,400
establish the Targaryens along 
the Blackwater as a buffer 

2148
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:22,240
between his own lands and those 
of her in the black. 

2149
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:25,320
So instead of him having to 
defend these Borderlands against

2150
01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:28,200
the encroachment of the Ironborn
King, he's like, let's put the 

2151
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:31,680
Targaryens there and they'll be 
the ones defending it and Heron 

2152
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:34,200
will go ramming up against them 
and their Dragons instead of me.

2153
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:37,600
Not the worst idea on the 
surface, but it's just a little 

2154
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:39,400
transparent. 
It's just too obvious what he's 

2155
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,920
trying to do here and and our 
Galactic doesn't sound very 

2156
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:45,670
clever because Agon figured all 
this out pretty quickly because 

2157
01:46:45,670 --> 01:46:48,030
it is pretty straightforward. 
If you're looking at the screen,

2158
01:46:48,030 --> 01:46:50,150
which I encourage you to do, we 
got a map up there. 

2159
01:46:50,150 --> 01:46:52,030
You can see what we're talking 
about here. 

2160
01:46:52,110 --> 01:46:54,230
Obviously you'd have to pretend 
King's Landing isn't there cuz 

2161
01:46:54,230 --> 01:46:57,270
it wasn't yet but that but you 
can look at King's Landing as 

2162
01:46:57,270 --> 01:47:00,030
the site where Agon landed and 
where he was operating. 

2163
01:47:00,470 --> 01:47:04,670
And that's basically the general
area that our Galac was trying 

2164
01:47:04,670 --> 01:47:08,850
to create a buffer between the 
storm lands and Heron Hall, 

2165
01:47:08,850 --> 01:47:12,210
which you know, those lands were
expanding. 

2166
01:47:12,210 --> 01:47:15,010
Heron Hall was was trying to 
exert its authority over 

2167
01:47:15,010 --> 01:47:17,370
everything and range. 
And that range was growing 

2168
01:47:17,770 --> 01:47:21,490
because, well, Heron Hall was 
almost finished. 

2169
01:47:21,610 --> 01:47:23,050
He was really close to 
finishing. 

2170
01:47:23,050 --> 01:47:28,290
Legend says that the day egg on 
set foot on land with the intent

2171
01:47:28,290 --> 01:47:30,530
to conquer was the same day 
Heron Hall was finished. 

2172
01:47:30,770 --> 01:47:35,250
Probably not quite that smooth 
and exact, but whatever, it's 

2173
01:47:35,250 --> 01:47:38,830
close enough to make no matter. 
It's basically at the same time.

2174
01:47:38,830 --> 01:47:42,030
Which, by the way, is an 
important consideration in terms

2175
01:47:42,030 --> 01:47:45,670
of the timing of all this, which
we'll be discussing on and off 

2176
01:47:46,350 --> 01:47:48,110
throughout this early stage of 
the conquest. 

2177
01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:54,910
Even if the lands offered had 
been our Galax to give, Agon 

2178
01:47:54,910 --> 01:47:56,710
probably wouldn't have accepted,
right? 

2179
01:47:56,710 --> 01:47:59,430
I mean, he didn't want to be a 
buffer state. 

2180
01:47:59,510 --> 01:48:02,710
He didn't want to be an ally of 
these other people. 

2181
01:48:02,710 --> 01:48:05,510
He wanted to make them his 
subjects, so they really wasn't 

2182
01:48:05,510 --> 01:48:09,630
on the table anyway. 
But this might explain part of 

2183
01:48:09,630 --> 01:48:12,150
why our Galac got so mad about 
in the end. 

2184
01:48:12,230 --> 01:48:15,110
Partly because he was a little 
desperate. 

2185
01:48:15,590 --> 01:48:18,550
His plan didn't work, and he had
worked with Agon before, so 

2186
01:48:18,550 --> 01:48:22,990
maybe he thought they would be 
more agreeable and come to some 

2187
01:48:22,990 --> 01:48:25,790
arrangement because of fighting 
against Atlantis together. 

2188
01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:34,550
Heron himself would have seemed 
like the common enemy of 

2189
01:48:34,550 --> 01:48:37,950
everyone. 
He is the big dog at the table 

2190
01:48:37,950 --> 01:48:40,350
right now, the one pushing 
everyone around, the one 

2191
01:48:41,150 --> 01:48:44,190
breaking a lot of Westerosi 
customs with those ironborn 

2192
01:48:44,190 --> 01:48:46,070
semantics. 
Oh, I don't have slaves. 

2193
01:48:46,070 --> 01:48:47,950
I have thralls, right? 
And he had. 

2194
01:48:48,110 --> 01:48:52,510
He had taken a lot of thralls to
build Heron Hall and work them 

2195
01:48:52,510 --> 01:48:53,990
to death. 
These are people. 

2196
01:48:54,230 --> 01:48:57,960
It's like peasants that he just 
stole from our surrounding lands

2197
01:48:57,960 --> 01:49:00,680
and some that live in his own 
lands and just put them to work.

2198
01:49:01,200 --> 01:49:04,240
And no one like this guy, he's a
bad king. 

2199
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:08,840
This reminds me of what we were 
talking about earlier about sort

2200
01:49:08,840 --> 01:49:10,680
of the perfect storm things 
coming together. 

2201
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:14,960
Maybe this is part of what a gun
realized from a diplomatic 

2202
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:18,280
standpoint that might enable him
to take Westeros over is that 

2203
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:22,200
there is this one person who is 
A very powerful and B not very 

2204
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:24,520
liked, and if he could take them
out. 

2205
01:49:25,070 --> 01:49:27,270
Other people will think, well, 
if you took out Heron, he can 

2206
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:30,430
take out me. 
And also glad he took out Heron.

2207
01:49:30,430 --> 01:49:31,790
Maybe this guy's not so bad, 
right? 

2208
01:49:31,790 --> 01:49:34,070
So you're totally right. 
This is that's a really good 

2209
01:49:34,070 --> 01:49:36,990
analysis, Sean. 
And it it's also expands into 

2210
01:49:36,990 --> 01:49:38,350
some other topics I wanted to 
talk about. 

2211
01:49:38,350 --> 01:49:42,710
Think about that in the real 
world, it's extremely common for

2212
01:49:42,710 --> 01:49:48,550
a politician's platform to be 
I'm not that guy like you. 

2213
01:49:48,630 --> 01:49:51,550
You have you've experienced a 
crappy leader and someone's 

2214
01:49:51,550 --> 01:49:55,570
like, well, I'm better than him 
and I like anyone, but damn, 

2215
01:49:55,570 --> 01:49:57,330
okay. 
We'll vote for you or we'll 

2216
01:49:57,330 --> 01:50:00,610
elect you or we'll join your 
army, depending on what you 

2217
01:50:00,610 --> 01:50:02,290
know, time and place we're 
talking about. 

2218
01:50:02,290 --> 01:50:05,330
However they settle, politics, 
whatever it is, whether it's 

2219
01:50:05,330 --> 01:50:12,210
voting or war or whatever. 
So this would have been this is 

2220
01:50:12,210 --> 01:50:14,370
a similar say, Yeah, you have 
someone who's really unpopular 

2221
01:50:14,370 --> 01:50:17,980
Agons like hey, yeah by 
comparison I'm great. 

2222
01:50:17,980 --> 01:50:19,900
I'm open handed. 
He's gonna do all the things, 

2223
01:50:19,900 --> 01:50:21,940
the opposite and just to show 
people what it could be like. 

2224
01:50:21,940 --> 01:50:23,140
I think then he can pull all 
that back. 

2225
01:50:23,140 --> 01:50:24,820
Although it was like now that 
I'm in charge I don't have to do

2226
01:50:24,820 --> 01:50:28,620
all that nice stuff anymore. 
It's like now you see what I'm 

2227
01:50:28,620 --> 01:50:31,500
really like and and yeah, he is 
better than hair and like that's

2228
01:50:31,540 --> 01:50:33,220
it. 
He was nowhere near as 

2229
01:50:33,420 --> 01:50:35,380
tyrannical as hair. 
He is a better leader. 

2230
01:50:35,660 --> 01:50:37,180
He is a better guy to have in 
charge. 

2231
01:50:37,460 --> 01:50:39,700
It's pretty low bar, but you're 
right, it's an extremely low 

2232
01:50:39,780 --> 01:50:41,260
bar. 
OK, let me give you an example 

2233
01:50:41,900 --> 01:50:44,620
going way back in time, way back
in time. 

2234
01:50:44,620 --> 01:50:47,920
The time of of ancient 
Babylonia, the ancient Persian 

2235
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:52,480
Empire. 
Okay, the Assyrians, I think it 

2236
01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:56,360
was had conquered Babylon. 
And the Assyrians were really 

2237
01:50:56,360 --> 01:50:59,720
tyrannical, really hard, 
heavy-handed rulers which by the

2238
01:50:59,720 --> 01:51:02,720
way Heron the Black's 
grandfather was literally hard 

2239
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:06,520
when hard hand. 
So that's pretty similar, right?

2240
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:12,720
And the Persian, I'm sorry, the 
Persian Empire comes along and 

2241
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:15,670
is like the Cyrus the Great. 
The founder of the Persian 

2242
01:51:15,670 --> 01:51:19,590
Empire is like, I'm going to let
you do all the things that the 

2243
01:51:19,590 --> 01:51:21,190
Assyrians couldn't do. 
They're like, they're trying to 

2244
01:51:21,190 --> 01:51:24,070
control your religion. 
I'm for whatever religion you 

2245
01:51:24,070 --> 01:51:26,070
want to have. 
So I'm for freedom to worship. 

2246
01:51:26,070 --> 01:51:27,910
So it's like they're just, he's 
just presenting himself as the 

2247
01:51:27,910 --> 01:51:30,190
opposite to all the things these
Syrians were like, You guys 

2248
01:51:30,310 --> 01:51:31,950
can't do this. 
I'll let you do this. 

2249
01:51:32,150 --> 01:51:34,470
They're taxing you like this. 
I'm going to tax you less. 

2250
01:51:34,550 --> 01:51:36,990
They're doing that. 
Just figures out all the things 

2251
01:51:36,990 --> 01:51:40,240
people hate and says I'm going 
to do the opposite. 

2252
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:41,560
It does a version that they'll 
like. 

2253
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,320
And so they flocked to his 
banner when when he came to 

2254
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,680
Babylon, the Babylonians like, 
we're like, yay, they just 

2255
01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:49,120
kicked out all these Syrians. 
They just needed him to show up 

2256
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:52,040
and present his strength and 
just know that he was backing 

2257
01:51:52,040 --> 01:51:52,920
them. 
Was actually there. 

2258
01:51:52,960 --> 01:51:56,440
The timing had to be right. 
Very similar consideration here.

2259
01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:59,920
Aegon can read the the tea 
leaves and be like, yeah, 

2260
01:51:59,920 --> 01:52:03,320
everyone hates Heron. 
So if I go after him, people 

2261
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:05,510
might join me. 
They certainly won't help him. 

2262
01:52:05,510 --> 01:52:07,310
They might just wait and sit 
back and do nothing. 

2263
01:52:07,470 --> 01:52:09,470
But they're not going to rush to
his defense. 

2264
01:52:09,630 --> 01:52:11,110
If they join anyone, it'll be 
me. 

2265
01:52:11,670 --> 01:52:12,710
Maybe. 
More likely, they don't do 

2266
01:52:12,710 --> 01:52:14,950
anything. 
And as you said, Sean, if you 

2267
01:52:14,950 --> 01:52:17,590
knock off the most powerful guy 
there, well, it just shows that,

2268
01:52:17,590 --> 01:52:20,630
well, he knocked off the most 
powerful guy, then that must 

2269
01:52:20,630 --> 01:52:23,910
make him the most powerful guy. 
And he didn't have any of our 

2270
01:52:23,910 --> 01:52:27,790
help to do it because he he 
spurns all these alliances. 

2271
01:52:27,790 --> 01:52:29,590
Like, no, I'm. 
I'm not about alliances. 

2272
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:31,750
No, I'm not taking your marriage
offer. 

2273
01:52:32,230 --> 01:52:35,160
I'm not taking your alliance, 
your deal. 

2274
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:38,160
I'm taking your submission. 
That's it. 

2275
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:40,520
That's all I'm taking. 
If you're not going to submit, 

2276
01:52:40,640 --> 01:52:44,080
I'm going to make you submit. 
It's a very, very boss attitude.

2277
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:45,960
Like, yeah, no, I don't need 
your help at all. 

2278
01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:48,880
I'm going to do it myself. 
And that's going to prove 

2279
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:52,560
definitively that I that I'm 
strong enough to do it. 

2280
01:52:53,200 --> 01:52:58,040
And if I can conquer you once 
I've conquered you, you're not 

2281
01:52:58,040 --> 01:53:02,020
going to try to overthrow me 
because, well, I'm gonna be even

2282
01:53:02,020 --> 01:53:06,460
stronger once I've settled the 
conquest and started making. 

2283
01:53:06,460 --> 01:53:08,140
And hopefully you're not gonna 
want you. 

2284
01:53:08,140 --> 01:53:09,980
Yeah, hopefully you're not gonna
want to, cuz Leo wants. 

2285
01:53:09,980 --> 01:53:12,420
You guys weren't trying to 
overthrow Heron as bad as he 

2286
01:53:12,420 --> 01:53:13,900
was. 
You weren't teaming up against 

2287
01:53:13,900 --> 01:53:15,740
him. 
I'm not gonna be that bad. 

2288
01:53:16,210 --> 01:53:16,650
Right. 
You. 

2289
01:53:16,730 --> 01:53:18,810
You part of why you didn't team 
up against him? 

2290
01:53:18,810 --> 01:53:21,010
Because you couldn't beat him 
anyway, even though he was bad. 

2291
01:53:21,010 --> 01:53:23,210
Well, you can't beat me either, 
and I'm not bad. 

2292
01:53:23,210 --> 01:53:24,090
So. 
Right. 

2293
01:53:24,090 --> 01:53:27,170
We should all be on board. 
Yeah, the path is clear. 

2294
01:53:27,170 --> 01:53:29,010
If you look at it that way. 
It's like, well, yeah, they 

2295
01:53:29,010 --> 01:53:31,770
could they they couldn't gang up
against the common enemy. 

2296
01:53:32,210 --> 01:53:34,570
And that's a meta dream 
perspective here to think about.

2297
01:53:34,570 --> 01:53:37,930
That way, if Aegons like, OK, 
this realm needs to be united to

2298
01:53:37,930 --> 01:53:40,690
fight a common enemy later, they
clearly aren't doing it now. 

2299
01:53:41,830 --> 01:53:44,590
They can't do it against this 
evil guy right in their midst. 

2300
01:53:44,710 --> 01:53:46,470
They're not certainly not going 
to be able to do it against a 

2301
01:53:46,590 --> 01:53:48,750
supernatural foe that's way up 
in the North. 

2302
01:53:49,270 --> 01:53:51,110
They can't get their act 
together here in the center of 

2303
01:53:51,110 --> 01:53:54,070
the continent where it's warm, 
like they're not going to March 

2304
01:53:54,070 --> 01:53:55,510
N then. 
And he's right. 

2305
01:53:55,950 --> 01:53:59,550
Like they're probably not. 
Like again, the TV show isn't 

2306
01:53:59,550 --> 01:54:03,230
exactly what's going to happen, 
but when half of the Westeros 

2307
01:54:03,230 --> 01:54:05,390
went to fight the others in the 
realm, the other half stayed in 

2308
01:54:05,390 --> 01:54:07,710
the South, fighting over the 
same old stuff they always did, 

2309
01:54:07,710 --> 01:54:10,400
just trying to win the throne. 
Like ignoring the danger, That's

2310
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:15,680
a very rational thing to expect.
It's not rational behavior, but 

2311
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:18,320
it's rational to expect that 
level of irrational behavior. 

2312
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:24,760
So it's proving his point. 
He's like I need to unite this 

2313
01:54:24,760 --> 01:54:27,040
realm. 
They're not uniting against the 

2314
01:54:27,040 --> 01:54:29,760
common foe. 
This proves that I need to be 

2315
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:31,600
the one to unite them against 
the common foe. 

2316
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:37,450
Yeah, it's very self fulfilling 
and it's hard to poke holes in 

2317
01:54:37,450 --> 01:54:40,090
the logic in some ways, right? 
It's a pretty good argument, you

2318
01:54:40,090 --> 01:54:45,690
know, in this setting, right? 
Continuing on here though, Heron

2319
01:54:45,690 --> 01:54:47,770
himself might have known some of
this. 

2320
01:54:47,770 --> 01:54:49,490
You might have seen something 
becoming, but the guy's just too

2321
01:54:49,490 --> 01:54:53,090
stubborn and and bossy and 
authoritative to to bend. 

2322
01:54:53,690 --> 01:54:55,490
He's this isn't a Bailon 
Greyjoy. 

2323
01:54:55,490 --> 01:54:59,010
Remember Bailon, His saving 
grace? 

2324
01:54:59,010 --> 01:55:05,170
One of the few smart things 
Bailon ever said was bend the 

2325
01:55:05,170 --> 01:55:07,680
knee. 
Like, if you're beaten, bend the

2326
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:08,440
knee. 
Don't be. 

2327
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:10,600
Don't lose your head along with 
it. 

2328
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:14,840
Don't chase, you know, don't 
make your loss worse by denying 

2329
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:18,160
that you've lost bending the 
knee. 

2330
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:20,280
Never You don't lose your head 
bending your knee. 

2331
01:55:20,560 --> 01:55:24,760
You can stand back up later if 
you, but if you lose your head, 

2332
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:27,280
you'll never stand up again. 
It's like, don't let your pride 

2333
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:29,200
ruin It's like, yeah, that's 
true, Beylon. 

2334
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:31,680
Yeah, if you're beaten, admits 
you're beaten, you know, don't 

2335
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,370
take your ego out of it. 
Which is difficult because it's 

2336
01:55:34,370 --> 01:55:37,050
a lot of times it's ego and 
pride that causes you to to rise

2337
01:55:37,050 --> 01:55:38,650
up in the 1st place. 
Not always. 

2338
01:55:38,650 --> 01:55:40,810
Sometimes it's injustice. 
But it wasn't injustice. 

2339
01:55:40,810 --> 01:55:48,370
In Baymont's case, not really. 
So Argalac's grandfather, we got

2340
01:55:48,370 --> 01:55:50,250
to keep something else in mind 
about some recent history. 

2341
01:55:50,250 --> 01:55:54,330
Argalac's grandfather had lost 
lands to this to the to house 

2342
01:55:54,330 --> 01:55:58,770
whore, to hair, Black Heron's 
ancestors, recent ancestors. 

2343
01:55:58,770 --> 01:56:03,780
The Storm Kings had ruled a lot 
of the territory that had since 

2344
01:56:03,780 --> 01:56:06,500
been taken over by the Iron Born
they had. 

2345
01:56:06,660 --> 01:56:08,780
They were on the rise. 
Now this is their zenith. 

2346
01:56:08,780 --> 01:56:11,900
They were, they were or their 
nadir rather they were on a 

2347
01:56:11,900 --> 01:56:18,020
decline and our in fact our 
Galax strength as a leader. 

2348
01:56:18,420 --> 01:56:21,740
Even though he didn't manage 
this situation very well earlier

2349
01:56:21,740 --> 01:56:26,180
in his career, he did a lot of 
things really well and he held 

2350
01:56:26,180 --> 01:56:27,420
back the decline of the Duran 
did. 

2351
01:56:27,420 --> 01:56:28,980
It probably would have come 
sooner if not for him. 

2352
01:56:28,980 --> 01:56:33,110
So we're painting him as kind of
a guy who makes a lot of 

2353
01:56:33,110 --> 01:56:36,070
mistakes here. 
But when he was younger, his 

2354
01:56:36,710 --> 01:56:39,310
maybe like, and again like a 
robber, like his early decisions

2355
01:56:39,310 --> 01:56:43,670
were good, but he wasn't in 
peacetime, he wasn't so good. 

2356
01:56:44,430 --> 01:56:47,550
He's a good wartime ruler, but. 
Yeah, that was a Durandin trait 

2357
01:56:47,550 --> 01:56:49,350
that the Brathians inherited. 
Yeah. 

2358
01:56:50,550 --> 01:56:52,630
Yeah, that's a good way. 
Good way to put it, yeah. 

2359
01:56:53,550 --> 01:56:57,390
You know, I have a question, 
something I feel like I should 

2360
01:56:57,390 --> 01:56:58,510
know but I don't have a good 
idea. 

2361
01:56:59,280 --> 01:57:03,560
The Riverlands kind of became a 
Kingdom after Aegon took over 

2362
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:05,680
and they were reset to one. 
They had been one. 

2363
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:08,080
They were restored. 
They hadn't been for a long 

2364
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:10,640
time, like 600 years, yeah. 600 
years. 

2365
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:15,240
So the territory that is the 
Riverlands now that was just 

2366
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:19,440
divvied up among the the Reach 
and the West and the Stormland 

2367
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:22,480
it had been itself. 
It was a unique, you know, its 

2368
01:57:22,480 --> 01:57:24,840
own Kingdom. 
And then eventually the Storm 

2369
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:27,800
Kings took a big chunk of it, 
like like the eastern portion of

2370
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:31,770
it, and it was. 
And then they took even more of 

2371
01:57:31,770 --> 01:57:33,530
it and they started picking more
and more of it off. 

2372
01:57:33,530 --> 01:57:37,090
It's obviously this isn't a this
is a fluid situation. 

2373
01:57:37,690 --> 01:57:41,090
And then the Ironborn came, the 
Heron's Dynasty came in and took

2374
01:57:41,090 --> 01:57:46,730
it over and took the east, the 
western portion of the river 

2375
01:57:46,730 --> 01:57:49,490
lands and then eventually kicked
out the storm lands. 

2376
01:57:50,250 --> 01:57:54,890
This was a case of the River 
Landers rose for the Ironborn. 

2377
01:57:54,890 --> 01:57:58,330
They're like, oh, we can kick 
out the Storm lands if we assist

2378
01:57:58,330 --> 01:58:00,010
the Ironborn. 
It was the reverse of what we 

2379
01:58:00,010 --> 01:58:02,090
just described. 
Like, oh, let's get rid of these

2380
01:58:02,090 --> 01:58:05,090
cruel leaders that don't belong 
here because these new guys are 

2381
01:58:05,090 --> 01:58:06,490
coming along to help us push 
them out. 

2382
01:58:06,850 --> 01:58:09,690
This time the new guys were 
worse than the old guys Hair and

2383
01:58:09,810 --> 01:58:13,610
the Ironborn took over and 
predictably ruled them a lot 

2384
01:58:13,610 --> 01:58:15,930
more harshly than the Storm 
Landers did. 

2385
01:58:16,690 --> 01:58:18,930
So they kicked out a king in 
favor of renewing and, and it 

2386
01:58:19,010 --> 01:58:22,890
made things worse for them. 
So it took Agon to restore the 

2387
01:58:22,890 --> 01:58:27,240
old borders. 
And so because I feel like that 

2388
01:58:27,240 --> 01:58:29,840
would have been a, I don't know,
a point of contention, The storm

2389
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:32,080
lands having to give it. 
If he puts Aureus in charge, 

2390
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:33,760
it's easier. 
He's going to do whatever Reagan

2391
01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:36,000
says, right? 
But some of that, none of that 

2392
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:39,320
land came from the Reach or the 
north or the Westerlands or 

2393
01:58:39,320 --> 01:58:43,000
anything probably maybe a little
bit of the West, but it's not 

2394
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:45,760
very well specified because the 
wet, the West's borders with the

2395
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:48,400
river lands are very natural, 
like it's like where the 

2396
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:50,120
mountains begin. 
There's like some pretty clearly

2397
01:58:50,120 --> 01:58:52,560
defined, yeah, geographical 
borders there that makes a 

2398
01:58:52,560 --> 01:59:00,730
little, little more clear where 
these demarcations are and the 

2399
01:59:00,730 --> 01:59:03,090
reaches. 
It may be no one wants to fight 

2400
01:59:03,090 --> 01:59:08,330
over anyway. 
And the Reach, yes, it would 

2401
01:59:08,330 --> 01:59:10,010
have, it would have encroached a
bit too. 

2402
01:59:03,810 --> 01:59:06,250
Yeah, sure, you can have the 
mountaintop, the no one can get 

2403
01:59:06,250 --> 01:59:07,170
you anyway. 
OK, fine. 

2404
01:59:10,010 --> 01:59:13,370
But the Reach is also so 
centrally located that it's got 

2405
01:59:13,370 --> 01:59:16,210
borders with the West, borders 
with storm lands, borders with 

2406
01:59:16,210 --> 01:59:17,610
Dorn. 
So it's already. 

2407
01:59:17,610 --> 01:59:20,250
Like whenever. 
And the Tyrells are also just 

2408
01:59:20,250 --> 01:59:21,770
going to do whatever rake on 
sets, right? 

2409
01:59:21,770 --> 01:59:23,210
They're fully bought in, 
exactly. 

2410
01:59:23,370 --> 01:59:24,770
They want to get some lands back
for the. 

2411
01:59:24,850 --> 01:59:25,490
Riverland. 
Sure. 

2412
01:59:25,490 --> 01:59:27,050
Yeah, whatever. 
Just don't burn us down. 

2413
01:59:27,050 --> 01:59:30,650
Yeah, so when they were ruled by
the gardeners, yeah, they were 

2414
01:59:32,010 --> 01:59:34,250
trying to expand their borders, 
but the Reach was so large that 

2415
01:59:34,250 --> 01:59:35,370
it was hard to expand their 
borders. 

2416
01:59:35,370 --> 01:59:39,850
Recall the story from the Sworn 
Sword that when the King of the 

2417
01:59:39,850 --> 01:59:43,810
Reach went to try to fight the 
Storm Land and this was a long 

2418
01:59:43,810 --> 01:59:47,250
time back, the West invaded the 
Reach. 

2419
01:59:47,410 --> 01:59:48,890
And it was. 
Remember his house had that 

2420
01:59:48,890 --> 01:59:51,650
heroic stand. 
The Osgrays like held back, like

2421
01:59:51,650 --> 01:59:55,980
killed the King of the of the 
West in this heroic fight that 

2422
01:59:55,980 --> 01:59:58,620
he he died in also. 
And it's like a really important

2423
01:59:59,140 --> 02:00:02,860
milestone for for the history of
House Osgrey. 

2424
02:00:03,540 --> 02:00:05,380
So yeah, so this is what 
happens. 

2425
02:00:05,380 --> 02:00:07,380
Like they keep an eye on each 
other like, oh, it's like a 

2426
02:00:07,380 --> 02:00:10,140
board game. 
You send all your troops E then 

2427
02:00:10,140 --> 02:00:11,540
someone's going to invade you 
from the West. 

2428
02:00:11,540 --> 02:00:15,180
Like you can very clearly see 
where their opportunity comes 

2429
02:00:15,180 --> 02:00:17,340
from and you can see it coming 
before it even happens. 

2430
02:00:19,100 --> 02:00:21,380
So there's a lot of back story 
here. 

2431
02:00:21,380 --> 02:00:23,100
A lot of political situation, a 
lot of. 

2432
02:00:23,910 --> 02:00:27,350
Moving Borders that Agon is 
trying to pick his timing for. 

2433
02:00:27,350 --> 02:00:29,670
Like you said, there's there's 
an argument that this timing was

2434
02:00:29,670 --> 02:00:33,590
very precise based on exactly 
this, what was going on with 

2435
02:00:33,590 --> 02:00:37,990
these big players at the time. 
One very unpopular king with the

2436
02:00:37,990 --> 02:00:43,350
very large Kingdom, another 
fading king whose domain has 

2437
02:00:43,350 --> 02:00:45,590
been on the decline for a while.
And those two are right next to 

2438
02:00:45,590 --> 02:00:50,110
each other. 
Neither of them have a lot going

2439
02:00:50,110 --> 02:00:53,070
for them in terms of help. 
They're going to have to stand 

2440
02:00:53,070 --> 02:00:57,220
on their own Aegon. 
So it might seem odd that Aegon,

2441
02:00:59,300 --> 02:01:02,860
when it comes time for the 
conquest, didn't focus on 

2442
02:01:02,940 --> 02:01:05,740
individual kings. 
He went for one while Visanya 

2443
02:01:05,740 --> 02:01:07,340
went for another and Rainey went
for another. 

2444
02:01:08,140 --> 02:01:10,140
That's a little unusual. 
You might think they'd focus on 

2445
02:01:10,140 --> 02:01:14,900
one at a time, but they were 
going fast and they thought that

2446
02:01:14,900 --> 02:01:16,420
worked for their advantage. 
And we'll talk about that a 

2447
02:01:16,420 --> 02:01:18,020
little more when we get to that,
but. 

2448
02:01:18,400 --> 02:01:19,920
Let's get back. 
Also helps prove a point that 

2449
02:01:20,080 --> 02:01:22,960
hey, we just proving what if we?
Teamed up right? 

2450
02:01:22,960 --> 02:01:27,600
Like so. 
Let's see this next quote, which

2451
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:32,520
is Aegon's response to Argalac 
for the marriage offer, his own 

2452
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:35,560
offer. 
The Lord of Dragonstone 

2453
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:37,040
countered with an offer of his 
own. 

2454
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:40,280
He would take the Dower lands 
being offered if Argalac would 

2455
02:01:40,280 --> 02:01:43,640
also see Massey's Hook and the 
Woods and Plains from the Black 

2456
02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:47,240
Water S to the river Wind Water 
and the headwaters of the 

2457
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:49,230
Mandor. 
The pack would be sealed by the 

2458
02:01:49,230 --> 02:01:52,510
marriage of Argulaq's daughter 
to Ori's breath in Lord Aegon's 

2459
02:01:52,510 --> 02:01:55,630
childhood friend and companion. 
These terms Argulaq, the 

2460
02:01:55,630 --> 02:01:58,790
Arrogant Rejected Angrily. 
All right, Oshea's got the map 

2461
02:01:58,790 --> 02:02:00,990
up again. 
You can see where the spot 

2462
02:02:00,990 --> 02:02:03,630
roughly where King's Landing is.
You looks a little bit S you see

2463
02:02:04,670 --> 02:02:08,190
the wind Water over there, just 
east of what's marked as the 

2464
02:02:08,190 --> 02:02:09,950
Crown Lands the South of 
Blackwater Bay. 

2465
02:02:09,950 --> 02:02:12,350
And Massey's Hook, of course, is
is the nice little point 

2466
02:02:12,350 --> 02:02:14,350
sticking out there that points 
right at Drift Mark and 

2467
02:02:14,350 --> 02:02:17,190
Dragonstone, where Sharp Point 
and Stone Dance are. 

2468
02:02:18,130 --> 02:02:21,690
That's interesting. 
Ask for Agon, you might say. 

2469
02:02:21,690 --> 02:02:26,290
Well, he's asking for a lot. 
On the other hand, these Lords, 

2470
02:02:26,730 --> 02:02:31,930
Sharp Point, Stone Dance, they 
had kind of already stopped 

2471
02:02:32,770 --> 02:02:35,330
working for Argalac, for the 
Storm Kings. 

2472
02:02:35,330 --> 02:02:39,970
They were technically sworn to 
Storm's End, but the Lords of 

2473
02:02:39,970 --> 02:02:45,080
Sharp Points is Bar Emin and 
Massey would show up at Aegon's 

2474
02:02:45,080 --> 02:02:47,360
councils even though they were 
sworn to storms, and so they 

2475
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:49,640
were kind of already his. 
So he was asking for he's like, 

2476
02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:51,760
look, these guys are already 
kind of mine, let's make it 

2477
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:53,640
official. 
But our Galac wasn't having 

2478
02:02:53,640 --> 02:02:56,320
that. 
He didn't like that, so he 

2479
02:02:56,320 --> 02:02:57,920
rejected this. 
Not only did he rejected 

2480
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:00,760
angrily, as the quote says, he 
cut off the envoy's hands, but 

2481
02:03:00,760 --> 02:03:03,600
this is a massive breach of 
protocol. 

2482
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:06,760
For a king. 
To do that to another High Lord 

2483
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:10,980
is really out of place. 
I mean that's just it's a wild 

2484
02:03:10,980 --> 02:03:13,100
thing to do. 
I mean just say no and tell them

2485
02:03:13,100 --> 02:03:15,580
you're mad and you know I'm 
going to you know I'll kill you 

2486
02:03:15,580 --> 02:03:17,660
if I see you. 
But his envoy I mean that's just

2487
02:03:18,060 --> 02:03:20,740
just don't do that. 
It's a this violates their 

2488
02:03:20,740 --> 02:03:22,460
religion. 
It violates his honor. 

2489
02:03:22,460 --> 02:03:28,940
I mean it's it's not a viable 
pushback by the dictates of 

2490
02:03:28,940 --> 02:03:31,420
their culture. 
So I I think that even people in

2491
02:03:31,420 --> 02:03:34,740
Argalacs own court were probably
uncomfortable with this. 

2492
02:03:34,740 --> 02:03:36,990
They were like don't do that 
king. 

2493
02:03:36,990 --> 02:03:39,270
You know they may not have said 
anything because the dude's mad 

2494
02:03:39,270 --> 02:03:42,110
enough to do it. 
Well what might he do to you for

2495
02:03:42,150 --> 02:03:45,470
for saying don't do that you 
know so but but by in their 

2496
02:03:45,470 --> 02:03:49,470
minds they'd be like ooh this is
this is a cursive thing to do 

2497
02:03:49,470 --> 02:03:51,070
this might bring bad fortune on 
us. 

2498
02:03:51,070 --> 02:03:53,270
The gods will not shine on us 
here. 

2499
02:03:54,270 --> 02:03:59,270
But hey, Storm's end is it's 
founding is wrapped up in, do 

2500
02:03:59,270 --> 02:04:02,150
you know, pushing back against 
the gods. 

2501
02:04:02,150 --> 02:04:03,710
Denial of what the gods want. 
Right. 

2502
02:04:03,710 --> 02:04:06,550
The whole legend of Duran 
Durandon and Ellen. 

2503
02:04:06,550 --> 02:04:09,710
I was was a, you know, middle 
finger to the gods. 

2504
02:04:09,710 --> 02:04:13,190
It's like, no, I'll my daughter,
your daughter is gonna marry me.

2505
02:04:13,190 --> 02:04:16,710
Screw you, you know. 
Even still, this envoy is not a 

2506
02:04:16,710 --> 02:04:18,190
guy. 
He's just a dude trying to do 

2507
02:04:18,190 --> 02:04:19,950
his job. 
Like chopping someone's hands 

2508
02:04:19,950 --> 02:04:22,590
off. 
Never mind envoy or gods or 

2509
02:04:22,790 --> 02:04:24,510
protocol. 
It's just messed up, man. 

2510
02:04:24,510 --> 02:04:25,990
It's the messed up thing to do. 
Period. 

2511
02:04:25,990 --> 02:04:29,430
Yeah, it reminds us of A Dance 
With Dragons when Danny sends 

2512
02:04:29,430 --> 02:04:32,470
envoys to Mantares only to have 
their heads cut off and sent 

2513
02:04:32,470 --> 02:04:35,060
back in a box. 
Now, Mantares isn't exactly a 

2514
02:04:35,060 --> 02:04:40,620
city that is beholden to 
Westerosi cultural values, but 

2515
02:04:40,820 --> 02:04:43,260
the treatment of envoys is kind 
of a universal thing. 

2516
02:04:43,580 --> 02:04:46,980
This is, yeah. 
The treatment of people's heads 

2517
02:04:46,980 --> 02:04:51,540
is kind of a universal thing. 
It's hard for a culture to exist

2518
02:04:51,540 --> 02:04:53,260
that doesn't respect people's 
heads. 

2519
02:04:53,300 --> 02:04:54,620
Yeah, I mean, this is the 
messenger. 

2520
02:04:54,620 --> 02:04:56,540
Like it To talk about literally 
killing the messenger. 

2521
02:04:56,540 --> 02:04:58,220
I mean, damn, this is this is 
bad. 

2522
02:04:58,700 --> 02:05:02,660
So. 
Real quick, these lands. 

2523
02:05:04,470 --> 02:05:06,830
How similar is that to what just
end up being the crown lands 

2524
02:05:06,830 --> 02:05:08,550
anyway? 
Oh, it's pretty much what is the

2525
02:05:08,550 --> 02:05:11,190
crown Lands? 
And didn't his marriage just 

2526
02:05:11,190 --> 02:05:09,430
ended up happening anyway? 
Yeah, right. 

2527
02:05:09,430 --> 02:05:12,990
It becomes the crown. 
Also, yeah, right? 

2528
02:05:12,990 --> 02:05:16,230
Yeah, this is just purely This 
guy should listen to Baylon. 

2529
02:05:16,270 --> 02:05:19,950
Yeah, yeah, really should have. 
And it's odd. 

2530
02:05:20,030 --> 02:05:21,150
The couple things are odd about 
this. 

2531
02:05:21,150 --> 02:05:23,710
So he's not willing to have his 
daughter Mary Oris. 

2532
02:05:23,710 --> 02:05:26,150
He gets mad about that because 
Oris is a bastard, which in 

2533
02:05:26,150 --> 02:05:29,900
their culture, I guess that is. 
You know, I wouldn't have 

2534
02:05:29,900 --> 02:05:32,660
reacted like that, but it it 
might have, it might have been 

2535
02:05:32,660 --> 02:05:33,980
meant as an insult. 
I doubt it. 

2536
02:05:33,980 --> 02:05:37,140
Cuz Oris and Agon were friends 
and childhood companions. 

2537
02:05:37,140 --> 02:05:39,180
Like, I don't think Agon's like 
I'm gonna insult him by offering

2538
02:05:39,180 --> 02:05:42,700
my best friends and watch this. 
But he may have played it both 

2539
02:05:42,700 --> 02:05:44,940
ways. 
He's like, well, from our 

2540
02:05:44,940 --> 02:05:49,140
perspective, this is the only 
Targaryen blood you'll get. 

2541
02:05:49,900 --> 02:05:51,740
You know, we this is something 
we're very protective of. 

2542
02:05:51,740 --> 02:05:56,760
We don't just marry other houses
cuz we keep the blood of the 

2543
02:05:56,760 --> 02:05:59,720
dragon pure. 
This guy is my half brother, my 

2544
02:05:59,720 --> 02:06:02,360
father's son. 
He is the blood of Valyria. 

2545
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:06,080
So us having him married to 
someone is a big deal. 

2546
02:06:06,080 --> 02:06:09,520
Sure he's a bastard, but does 
that even mean the same thing to

2547
02:06:09,520 --> 02:06:11,480
a Valyrian? 
A bastard like I don't think 

2548
02:06:11,480 --> 02:06:14,600
they have the same. 
We surely can't assume it that 

2549
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:18,040
they care to the same degree 
that a Westerosi person does 

2550
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:20,640
about children out of wedlock. 
We already know the Darnish 

2551
02:06:20,640 --> 02:06:24,230
don't care as much, and they 
even follow the same religion is

2552
02:06:24,230 --> 02:06:26,030
the Faith of the 7th, so it 
isn't even necessarily a 

2553
02:06:26,030 --> 02:06:28,790
religious thing, it's more of a 
cultural thing. 

2554
02:06:29,070 --> 02:06:31,790
And we cannot assume at all, 
given how little we know about 

2555
02:06:31,790 --> 02:06:34,990
Valyria that that children in or
out of wedlock matter as much, 

2556
02:06:34,990 --> 02:06:37,990
especially given the importance 
of the actual magical blood 

2557
02:06:37,990 --> 02:06:40,230
being passed down. 
I kind of think that's the more 

2558
02:06:40,230 --> 02:06:42,110
important part, or at least 
would be a more important 

2559
02:06:42,110 --> 02:06:43,790
generation. 
From a Valyrian perspective, 

2560
02:06:43,950 --> 02:06:45,550
it's like, who's actually giving
our blood? 

2561
02:06:45,550 --> 02:06:48,910
Who's actually a threat to take 
our Dragons are the people that 

2562
02:06:48,910 --> 02:06:52,140
have this bloodline, so it's a 
big offer from their 

2563
02:06:52,140 --> 02:06:54,700
perspective. 
So they might our galac 

2564
02:06:54,700 --> 02:06:58,460
rejecting it angrily might be 
like, you're angry at our offer.

2565
02:06:58,460 --> 02:07:01,820
We offered you a lot and it 
isn't even less really a point 

2566
02:07:01,820 --> 02:07:03,260
of pride. 
Like, oh, you should be willing 

2567
02:07:03,260 --> 02:07:04,700
to accept this because you're 
lesser than us. 

2568
02:07:04,700 --> 02:07:06,700
No, they almost treated him like
an equal. 

2569
02:07:06,700 --> 02:07:08,780
This is as close as they ever 
get to treating someone like an 

2570
02:07:08,780 --> 02:07:15,340
equal in this early phase. 
You know, for your logic, it 

2571
02:07:15,340 --> 02:07:18,460
might not have been so crazy for
Agon, the unworthy to have. 

2572
02:07:19,300 --> 02:07:22,660
Legitimized as bastards, The 
Ambassadors is a big deal. 

2573
02:07:22,740 --> 02:07:24,020
Maybe. 
I mean, that's a lot farther 

2574
02:07:24,020 --> 02:07:25,700
down the timeline, but you're 
right, it might be. 

2575
02:07:26,020 --> 02:07:27,820
Yeah, he's thinking. 
That the cultural effects might 

2576
02:07:27,820 --> 02:07:30,460
have bled more into the 
Targaryen's, and it definitely 

2577
02:07:30,460 --> 02:07:33,970
has. 
Awful implications about how the

2578
02:07:34,090 --> 02:07:36,570
the, the, the, the crown is 
going to be passed and the words

2579
02:07:36,570 --> 02:07:38,970
that start because of it. 
But maybe in and of itself he's 

2580
02:07:38,970 --> 02:07:41,490
like, of course I legitimize my 
bastards or targarians or 

2581
02:07:41,490 --> 02:07:42,770
targarians. 
You might have had that 

2582
02:07:42,770 --> 02:07:44,210
bastards. 
Doesn't, doesn't matter, you 

2583
02:07:44,450 --> 02:07:45,730
know? 
Yeah, like, yeah, just just 

2584
02:07:45,730 --> 02:07:47,250
different values. 
Yeah, you're right to think 

2585
02:07:47,250 --> 02:07:49,770
about it from a different angle.
It's not the same perspective as

2586
02:07:49,970 --> 02:07:52,330
that we see from a lot of West 
Rossi in their attitude towards 

2587
02:07:52,330 --> 02:07:55,610
bastardy. 
Also by the way, the removal of 

2588
02:07:55,610 --> 02:07:59,010
hands recurring theme with House
Baratheon. 

2589
02:07:59,010 --> 02:08:01,890
One way or the other a lot of 
removed hands are gonna become 

2590
02:08:01,890 --> 02:08:06,530
important here and including 
their in laws much later with 

2591
02:08:06,530 --> 02:08:07,690
Jamie. 
Yeah HM yeah HM. 

2592
02:08:09,370 --> 02:08:12,570
So it's wild that he was upset 
about bastardy, but did he just 

2593
02:08:12,570 --> 02:08:16,530
not care that he was offering 
his own daughter to be a third 

2594
02:08:16,530 --> 02:08:20,330
wife to a? 
Like how is how's Durden going 

2595
02:08:20,330 --> 02:08:23,370
to continue if you give your 
only daughter to egg on And it's

2596
02:08:23,370 --> 02:08:23,970
his third? 
What? 

2597
02:08:23,970 --> 02:08:25,410
Like what? 
How does this even work? 

2598
02:08:25,410 --> 02:08:28,170
Like he's concerned about this 
bastardy thing but he doesn't 

2599
02:08:28,170 --> 02:08:32,250
seem to mind that his own 
daughter that he's offering to 

2600
02:08:32,250 --> 02:08:35,210
egg on is going to be in a 
polygamous marriage which is 

2601
02:08:35,210 --> 02:08:39,330
against their beliefs. 
And well, who is Storm Zen going

2602
02:08:39,330 --> 02:08:44,650
to go to when he's dead? 
His daughter that is just now 

2603
02:08:44,650 --> 02:08:46,290
married to the Crown like he's 
is he. 

2604
02:08:46,770 --> 02:08:49,410
He's asking you for just this 
small bit of the crown lands. 

2605
02:08:49,410 --> 02:08:51,250
Well it's not the Crown lands 
yet but he's asking you for the 

2606
02:08:51,250 --> 02:08:53,010
small bit of territory that's 
kind of already his because the 

2607
02:08:53,010 --> 02:08:57,090
Lord's already show up for his 
meetings but you're giving him 

2608
02:08:57,090 --> 02:09:00,130
the whole storm lands by giving 
his your daughter to him like 

2609
02:09:00,130 --> 02:09:02,610
this guy. 
Just there's either more to the 

2610
02:09:02,610 --> 02:09:04,970
story or he didn't think it 
through or both. 

2611
02:09:04,970 --> 02:09:10,250
Like, this one potential 
possibility here again, thinking

2612
02:09:10,250 --> 02:09:14,270
of the story that we're front 
and center on right now. 

2613
02:09:14,270 --> 02:09:16,110
How's the dragon slash, The 
beginning of the Dance of the 

2614
02:09:16,110 --> 02:09:19,790
Dragons and fire and blood. 
Look at how Baratheon reacted. 

2615
02:09:20,270 --> 02:09:24,070
Boros Baratheon reacted to being
told he had to help Rainera. 

2616
02:09:24,310 --> 02:09:27,830
He's like, oh, so I'm just, I 
just, you call me, you just Call

2617
02:09:27,830 --> 02:09:29,830
My Name and I have to send my 
armies up. 

2618
02:09:30,110 --> 02:09:31,190
You know? 
That's how it works. 

2619
02:09:31,430 --> 02:09:35,750
Pride, Big deal here. 
His pride was severely tested by

2620
02:09:35,750 --> 02:09:40,120
this, and there's long been a 
theory that the Meister didn't 

2621
02:09:40,120 --> 02:09:42,360
use the exact language from the 
letter. 

2622
02:09:42,360 --> 02:09:45,360
He may have exaggerated it to 
push him one way or the other. 

2623
02:09:45,920 --> 02:09:50,920
We cuz Boros brathing can't read
the Meister and the show was 

2624
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:52,440
clever. 
They had him read it into his 

2625
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:54,600
ear like he's like, he's with a 
whisper, whisper, whisper, 

2626
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:56,200
whisper. 
So we don't know what was said. 

2627
02:09:56,360 --> 02:09:58,000
Just like in fire blood 
presented that way. 

2628
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:00,640
The Meister whispers in his ear 
and it's like whispers in his 

2629
02:10:00,640 --> 02:10:03,480
ear, eh, when you hear that 
phrase you're like, well, how 

2630
02:10:03,480 --> 02:10:05,400
did it? 
How exactly did he word it? 

2631
02:10:06,380 --> 02:10:07,820
He's trying to push it one round
and say yeah, there's a 

2632
02:10:07,820 --> 02:10:09,940
possibility here as well Argalac
gets a letter. 

2633
02:10:09,940 --> 02:10:13,580
Do you think Argalac could read?
I don't know. 

2634
02:10:13,620 --> 02:10:16,580
I'm dubious. 
Let's say it's dubious. 

2635
02:10:16,580 --> 02:10:19,140
It's very questionable. 
So maybe he's made to red skill.

2636
02:10:19,220 --> 02:10:20,900
What's that? 
Might be lacking that skill. 

2637
02:10:20,940 --> 02:10:24,500
Yeah, that's right. 
He argalacs the ability to read.

2638
02:10:26,460 --> 02:10:29,220
Frequent reminder that we've 
made before that Argalac the 

2639
02:10:29,220 --> 02:10:32,780
Arrogant was a character George 
created in the 60s. 

2640
02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:36,480
Not for obviously not for so 
long. 

2641
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:38,960
Life and fire. 
Originally it was in his The 

2642
02:10:38,960 --> 02:10:42,440
Dark Gods of Kor You ban or 
whatever it was. 

2643
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:44,200
I forget exactly. 
I know we talked about this 

2644
02:10:44,200 --> 02:10:46,840
before, but I don't have it in 
my notes for this episode. 

2645
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:50,720
But anyway, so the arrogance 
certainly comes out here. 

2646
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:55,160
This guy's like plan to commit 
suicide by dragon. 

2647
02:10:55,160 --> 02:10:57,800
Yes, that. 
Was it kor you ban? 

2648
02:10:58,280 --> 02:10:59,800
Yeah, you got it right, Kor you 
ban. 

2649
02:10:59,800 --> 02:11:00,800
All right, go. 
Me. 

2650
02:11:02,120 --> 02:11:04,810
So did Aegon know? 
Like, we. 

2651
02:11:04,810 --> 02:11:06,850
I wonder, did he know what he 
was thinking? 

2652
02:11:06,850 --> 02:11:08,490
Did he know this would piss our 
gala off? 

2653
02:11:08,490 --> 02:11:10,290
Did he Was he trying to bait our
gala? 

2654
02:11:10,290 --> 02:11:12,370
Like, I know this is going to 
piss him off and we'll just, 

2655
02:11:13,050 --> 02:11:14,810
that's going to work. 
If you put him on tilt, he's 

2656
02:11:14,890 --> 02:11:17,370
going to make dumb decisions 
that'll make this all the more 

2657
02:11:17,370 --> 02:11:23,810
easier. 
Regardless, aside from what 

2658
02:11:23,810 --> 02:11:27,290
Argalac thought of Oris's this 
offer, Oris's hand is really 

2659
02:11:27,290 --> 02:11:32,160
valuable aside the bloodline 
dragon bonding stuff. 

2660
02:11:32,160 --> 02:11:35,720
Even taking that aside, he's the
highest ranking unlanded 

2661
02:11:35,720 --> 02:11:38,320
Valyrian person at Aegon's Court
not named Targaryen. 

2662
02:11:38,320 --> 02:11:40,680
Obviously the Valerians and 
Celtic Guards are landed, so 

2663
02:11:40,680 --> 02:11:44,720
that's they're not including 
them and he's Aegon's friend. 

2664
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:51,080
Like how good of an in is that? 
To have as you're in law, the 

2665
02:11:51,080 --> 02:11:54,880
King's childhood best friend? 
Like he's shutting this. 

2666
02:11:54,880 --> 02:11:58,160
Like again from Aegons was like,
man, we offered this guy a lot 

2667
02:11:59,840 --> 02:12:02,800
and he just cut our envoys hands
off, right? 

2668
02:12:02,800 --> 02:12:06,120
Like, but if he knows that's 
going to happen, if he know, he 

2669
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:07,680
probably doesn't know the hands 
are going to get cut off. 

2670
02:12:07,680 --> 02:12:11,800
But if he predicts an angry 
reaction, it can be like, oh, 

2671
02:12:11,800 --> 02:12:14,920
we're the good guys here. 
Westeros sees the situation. 

2672
02:12:15,240 --> 02:12:17,760
Who's the one violating laws of 
hospitality? 

2673
02:12:17,800 --> 02:12:20,120
Argalac? 
Who's the 1:00 making 

2674
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:23,850
disingenuous offers Argal. 
Who's the one offering to marry 

2675
02:12:23,850 --> 02:12:25,410
the daughter, but just under 
slightly different. 

2676
02:12:25,690 --> 02:12:28,130
Agon is like this. 
Agon seems like he's more 

2677
02:12:28,130 --> 02:12:30,090
willing to compromise, like from
a high level view. 

2678
02:12:30,290 --> 02:12:32,210
So Agalac just comes off looking
real bad here. 

2679
02:12:32,210 --> 02:12:35,130
Whether no matter what side you 
take in terms of public, in 

2680
02:12:35,130 --> 02:12:37,130
terms of optics, Arglac looks 
bad. 

2681
02:12:37,130 --> 02:12:42,810
And he looks dumb too. 
I think a little more about 

2682
02:12:42,930 --> 02:12:46,850
Oris. 
We don't know anything about his

2683
02:12:46,850 --> 02:12:50,450
mother like we know he was. 
His father was Aryan, you know, 

2684
02:12:50,570 --> 02:12:52,290
Agon and Vicinity and Rainey's 
dad. 

2685
02:12:53,300 --> 02:12:55,580
But like, where does this name 
Brathian even come from? 

2686
02:12:57,420 --> 02:13:00,500
It's completely just out of cuz.
Again, this is another reason 

2687
02:13:00,500 --> 02:13:05,140
why it's a clue that bastardy 
works a lot different in 

2688
02:13:05,140 --> 02:13:08,980
Valyrian culture, or had gone 
some, maybe gone some evolution 

2689
02:13:09,220 --> 02:13:10,980
at Dragonstone over those 100 
years. 

2690
02:13:11,140 --> 02:13:12,900
He's not. 
Or he's Waters. 

2691
02:13:14,040 --> 02:13:15,840
Right where there are no 
Gratians before him. 

2692
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:17,400
Is he the first brat thing we 
know? 

2693
02:13:17,440 --> 02:13:19,480
The first that we know of? 
Maybe his mom. 

2694
02:13:20,360 --> 02:13:23,520
It's possible that his mom was. 
It's possible is not Mom's name 

2695
02:13:23,520 --> 02:13:25,980
was like. 
Beyond like right, like like it 

2696
02:13:25,980 --> 02:13:29,900
could be like bar could mean 
just like how you could be bar 

2697
02:13:29,900 --> 02:13:32,420
Emin and like we see that I. 
Was gonna say there's even a bar

2698
02:13:32,420 --> 02:13:34,140
Emin. 
Yeah, because bar and that's how

2699
02:13:34,140 --> 02:13:36,220
Stone dance, one of those ones 
that, yeah, that we just talked.

2700
02:13:36,220 --> 02:13:40,380
About South, like the idea that 
you could say BAR means like of 

2701
02:13:40,460 --> 02:13:45,740
like someone like Emin was their
father Theon or LC, I don't 

2702
02:13:45,740 --> 02:13:47,060
know. 
That's my theory about it is 

2703
02:13:47,060 --> 02:13:50,780
that maybe there was a root in 
terms of like the name of the 

2704
02:13:50,780 --> 02:13:53,350
parent. 
So yeah we have no idea where 

2705
02:13:53,350 --> 02:13:54,590
that name originates. 
Nowhere. 

2706
02:13:54,670 --> 02:13:56,630
So yeah could come from the 
mother could be like she was a 

2707
02:13:56,630 --> 02:13:59,790
noble of some kind from some 
house from from distance, 

2708
02:13:59,790 --> 02:14:02,630
disenfranchised house back from 
Valeria that that fled with the 

2709
02:14:02,630 --> 02:14:04,670
Targaryens. 
So she still has noble blood, 

2710
02:14:04,670 --> 02:14:08,030
but she's that she not landed 
anymore and. 

2711
02:14:08,950 --> 02:14:11,390
And that was my thought, that 
maybe it was some other ancient 

2712
02:14:11,390 --> 02:14:14,230
Valerian house, or maybe not 
ancient but someone concurrent 

2713
02:14:14,230 --> 02:14:17,270
to the Targaryens or tribute or 
maybe actually relative of them.

2714
02:14:17,470 --> 02:14:19,470
I like the bar because Bar 
Emmons also such a. 

2715
02:14:20,830 --> 02:14:22,870
It doesn't fit the mold of any 
of the names, you know what I 

2716
02:14:22,870 --> 02:14:24,830
mean? 
And so now thinking about how 

2717
02:14:24,830 --> 02:14:27,070
similar Baratheon is to that. 
I really like your ideas. 

2718
02:14:27,070 --> 02:14:28,270
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

2719
02:14:29,030 --> 02:14:30,150
It's almost like, yeah, it 
isn't. 

2720
02:14:30,150 --> 02:14:33,190
Because Bar M and that sounds 
like a real life Jewish name. 

2721
02:14:33,310 --> 02:14:34,590
Yeah, that's kind of what it 
makes. 

2722
02:14:34,590 --> 02:14:36,870
Suffix is like a male. 
It's male or female. 

2723
02:14:36,870 --> 02:14:38,310
That's male, right? 
That's male, Yeah, for like, bar

2724
02:14:38,310 --> 02:14:39,590
mitzvah. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2725
02:14:39,670 --> 02:14:42,470
It's bar mitzvah. 
Yeah, for women. 

2726
02:14:42,470 --> 02:14:45,270
So that is kind of what it makes
me think of as well, I don't you

2727
02:14:45,270 --> 02:14:49,370
know, and like Bar MN is. 
Son of Theon or something, Yeah,

2728
02:14:49,730 --> 02:14:50,970
Yeah. 
So it's very, yeah, it's a 

2729
02:14:50,970 --> 02:14:53,490
really compelling idea. 
And and so there might have been

2730
02:14:53,490 --> 02:14:56,050
and this person, this mother of 
Oris might have still been 

2731
02:14:56,050 --> 02:14:59,170
alive. 
Like it's entirely possible as 

2732
02:14:59,410 --> 02:15:01,730
Aegon and Vicenia and Ranis's 
mother was probably alive too. 

2733
02:15:01,730 --> 02:15:03,010
But. 
It's entirely possible. 

2734
02:15:03,010 --> 02:15:04,690
But you know, she died on 
Charlotte, where it's coming. 

2735
02:15:07,490 --> 02:15:13,360
Yeah, so obviously Valyria would
just like the Westeros would 

2736
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:15,400
have to account for things like 
property laws and inheritance, 

2737
02:15:15,400 --> 02:15:18,120
so they would have laws around 
bastardy and all that stuff. 

2738
02:15:18,120 --> 02:15:22,040
But it again, we cannot assume 
it's the same and we definitely 

2739
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:25,600
can't assume the cultural view 
of bastards is the same or even 

2740
02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:28,240
similar. 
Cuz in Westeros they're 

2741
02:15:28,480 --> 02:15:30,880
obviously they're shunned and 
like big time. 

2742
02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:33,360
And there's no reason to think 
that's how it was in Valyria. 

2743
02:15:34,800 --> 02:15:37,860
Yeah, all right. 
I think that's our good place to

2744
02:15:37,860 --> 02:15:41,340
stop for this week. 
We're gonna start next week with

2745
02:15:42,340 --> 02:15:44,180
the claim. 
The thing I started talking 

2746
02:15:44,180 --> 02:15:46,740
about by accident, I jumped 
ahead and Asheya pointed out I 

2747
02:15:46,740 --> 02:15:48,700
had jumped ahead. 
Good catch there. 

2748
02:15:49,140 --> 02:15:53,410
So that'll be a great place to 
start next week, and I'm excited

2749
02:15:53,410 --> 02:15:54,610
for that. 
This is a great start. 

2750
02:15:54,610 --> 02:15:57,850
I loved our pacing here. 
I loved our progress. 

2751
02:15:57,850 --> 02:15:59,570
I loved a lot of the little 
rabbit holes we dove into. 

2752
02:15:59,570 --> 02:16:01,810
Some of them, most of them were 
planned, a few of them were not.

2753
02:16:02,050 --> 02:16:04,090
That's the value of doing these 
things live. 

2754
02:16:04,290 --> 02:16:07,450
A couple of y'all threw in some 
ideas that helped us out and 

2755
02:16:07,450 --> 02:16:09,970
that's how it's going to go. 
We'll hone our process a little 

2756
02:16:09,970 --> 02:16:13,370
more, but this is basically how 
it's going to go the way through

2757
02:16:14,170 --> 02:16:16,330
until we get to the death of a 
series. 

2758
02:16:18,170 --> 02:16:20,370
Another comment from Christina 
Kay. 

2759
02:16:20,750 --> 02:16:22,750
In my opinion, the reason 
George's mysteries work so well 

2760
02:16:22,750 --> 02:16:23,950
is that he never asked the 
question. 

2761
02:16:23,950 --> 02:16:27,790
In universe like, no one ever 
asks who is John's dad, right? 

2762
02:16:27,790 --> 02:16:29,470
You just read it and you're 
like, wait a minute, who is 

2763
02:16:29,470 --> 02:16:31,110
John's dad? 
Which is just what we did with 

2764
02:16:31,110 --> 02:16:33,469
Orius Baratheon. 
Like what's Orius's mom like? 

2765
02:16:33,469 --> 02:16:35,469
Who's Orius's mom? 
Where does his name come from? 

2766
02:16:35,830 --> 02:16:39,110
No one in the world asks where 
does the name Baratheon come 

2767
02:16:39,110 --> 02:16:40,990
from? 
Because if we they did, we'd 

2768
02:16:41,110 --> 02:16:42,190
have thought about this a lot 
sooner. 

2769
02:16:42,190 --> 02:16:46,030
Perhaps we would have arrived, 
perhaps in the same place 

2770
02:16:46,670 --> 02:16:48,430
because we have the same info, 
but we wouldn't have. 

2771
02:16:48,889 --> 02:16:51,090
It's fun to discover the 
question on your own rather than

2772
02:16:51,090 --> 02:16:52,330
have it thrown in your face. 
It's neat. 

2773
02:16:52,330 --> 02:16:55,170
It's a little more satisfying 
when you discover the question 

2774
02:16:56,850 --> 02:16:58,250
or when we discover the question
and tell it. 

2775
02:16:58,250 --> 02:16:59,889
You want a podcast? 
Yeah. 

2776
02:17:02,250 --> 02:17:03,170
All right. 
The trivia question. 

2777
02:17:03,530 --> 02:17:07,129
The question was, what does 
George himself call Fire and 

2778
02:17:07,129 --> 02:17:11,170
Blood, his nickname for it, as 
inspired by Jr. 

2779
02:17:11,170 --> 02:17:12,969
Tolkien? 
Did anyone get this one? 

2780
02:17:13,490 --> 02:17:15,290
Yeah, a lot of people got it, I 
thought so. 

2781
02:17:15,290 --> 02:17:17,090
A lot of people got it. 
A few people had some fun 

2782
02:17:17,090 --> 02:17:20,299
guessing, some like. 
Other ideas. 

2783
02:17:20,299 --> 02:17:25,059
They were like, you know, Tar 
Gillian, Tar Gurilian, still 

2784
02:17:25,139 --> 02:17:27,299
Margari. 
People got a little silly but 

2785
02:17:27,299 --> 02:17:29,900
just like I think everyone knew 
it's the Gur Marillian, yeah, 

2786
02:17:29,900 --> 02:17:32,820
which is funny cuz it says the 
word Marillion like the singer 

2787
02:17:34,340 --> 02:17:38,139
but and the band, the English 
band, the British band from the 

2788
02:17:38,139 --> 02:17:40,860
70s. 
But yes, the Gur Marillion is 

2789
02:17:40,860 --> 02:17:43,420
what he calls it the G like the 
Sil Marillion, of course, the 

2790
02:17:43,420 --> 02:17:46,559
Tokyian history and lore book 
that is beloved. 

2791
02:17:46,680 --> 02:17:48,400
I've also read the Silver Lane 
myself. 

2792
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:50,200
I do not remember much about it 
at all. 

2793
02:17:50,200 --> 02:17:53,320
It was a long time ago, but it 
was fun. 

2794
02:17:53,320 --> 02:17:56,600
I do remember enjoying it. 
Can I add a little thing here to

2795
02:17:56,639 --> 02:17:58,680
the talk about bar names? 
But of course. 

2796
02:17:59,959 --> 02:18:07,879
So I got a message not in the 
chat from listener Dom who said.

2797
02:18:08,580 --> 02:18:12,580
He has a Reddit post from many 
years ago where he theorized 

2798
02:18:12,580 --> 02:18:16,540
that bar was an associate 
bastard name and I. 

2799
02:18:16,540 --> 02:18:19,100
The notable thing here that I'll
take from that is that the 

2800
02:18:19,100 --> 02:18:23,340
original, the name of the 
original Bar Emin is to Gary and

2801
02:18:23,340 --> 02:18:26,059
Bar Emin, and they say he's an 
and all Warlord doesn't sound 

2802
02:18:26,059 --> 02:18:28,980
her and all. 
It sounds like a Valyrian like 

2803
02:18:29,020 --> 02:18:31,620
bastard, like an associate, like
tagarian. 

2804
02:18:32,059 --> 02:18:35,500
Yeah, like that sounds like he 
was a bastard of like, I don't 

2805
02:18:35,540 --> 02:18:36,620
know. 
I think, I think. 

2806
02:18:37,219 --> 02:18:39,860
It's a good idea. 
Togarian sounds a lot like 

2807
02:18:39,860 --> 02:18:41,820
Targaryen. 
But it credits him as being an 

2808
02:18:41,860 --> 02:18:45,260
and all warlord. 
So I think that was a bastard 

2809
02:18:45,379 --> 02:18:49,059
who was part and all part. 
Yeah, I like an and all Valyrian

2810
02:18:49,059 --> 02:18:51,020
bastard. 
That's a cool idea. 

2811
02:18:51,020 --> 02:18:53,780
Official head cannon. 
And we're corrected. 

2812
02:18:53,780 --> 02:18:58,379
Which will probably be never, 
but I like it. 

2813
02:18:59,299 --> 02:19:01,059
So yeah, Germerling was the 
answer. 

2814
02:19:01,059 --> 02:19:02,500
Next week we'll pick up where we
left off. 

2815
02:19:02,580 --> 02:19:07,330
Left off And If you want to dive
deeper into these related 

2816
02:19:07,330 --> 02:19:10,129
topics, check out our episode 
before the Dragons. 

2817
02:19:10,129 --> 02:19:12,930
Check out our multiple episodes 
under the Dragons. 

2818
02:19:12,930 --> 02:19:14,410
Check out the episode on 
Valerian. 

2819
02:19:14,690 --> 02:19:16,010
Check out the episode on The 
Doom. 

2820
02:19:16,370 --> 02:19:18,129
Check out the episode on 
Dragonstone. 

2821
02:19:18,410 --> 02:19:20,770
Check out our two episodes on 
Valerian history. 

2822
02:19:21,129 --> 02:19:23,650
Check out our episode on 
Valerian history. 

2823
02:19:23,809 --> 02:19:26,450
Check out our episode on 
Celtigar or Celtigar if you 

2824
02:19:26,450 --> 02:19:28,840
prefer. 
That's one episode, not two. 

2825
02:19:29,639 --> 02:19:31,440
Check out our episode. 
But we did one episode on 

2826
02:19:31,480 --> 02:19:33,879
Celticar and one episode on 
Celticar, and we just like. 

2827
02:19:34,240 --> 02:19:35,799
The same thing. 
It's the same thing we just 

2828
02:19:35,799 --> 02:19:37,000
pronounced. 
It definitely just said it 

2829
02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:39,240
differently. 
Or check out our episode on The 

2830
02:19:39,240 --> 02:19:41,280
Century of Blood. 
I mean The Century of Blood. 

2831
02:19:42,320 --> 02:19:48,160
Or our Or our Patrons only 
episode on Mantares where those 

2832
02:19:48,160 --> 02:19:51,440
heads were cut off. 
And heads are a big part of that

2833
02:19:51,440 --> 02:19:54,360
episode because there's multiple
headed people in Mantares. 

2834
02:19:55,340 --> 02:19:58,420
And for that reason, we theorize
that maybe there's a connection 

2835
02:19:58,420 --> 02:20:02,700
between Mantaris and Melis the 
Monstrous who had a congenital 

2836
02:20:02,700 --> 02:20:06,980
twin sticking out of his neck. 
Yikes. 

2837
02:20:07,060 --> 02:20:10,140
Yeah, that's strange. 
But apparently a real life 

2838
02:20:10,140 --> 02:20:12,300
thing. 
But in this case, probably 

2839
02:20:12,300 --> 02:20:14,740
supernatural and not a 
reflection of the real life 

2840
02:20:14,740 --> 02:20:19,940
thing, but who knows? 
Anyway, we'll see you all next 

2841
02:20:19,940 --> 02:20:21,180
week. 
Thank you, Patrons, for 

2842
02:20:21,180 --> 02:20:23,900
supporting us. 
We really appreciate you backing

2843
02:20:23,900 --> 02:20:24,820
us financially. 
We. 

2844
02:20:25,200 --> 02:20:30,480
Are still trying to build our 
self up to the ability for all 

2845
02:20:30,480 --> 02:20:32,840
three of us to make a living at 
this show or we're not there. 

2846
02:20:33,040 --> 02:20:35,080
But we'd like to continue 
growing and we're gonna do that 

2847
02:20:35,080 --> 02:20:38,440
by offering more and more, by 
doing better, by improving 

2848
02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:41,890
ourselves, improving our show 
and hopefully that brings more 

2849
02:20:41,890 --> 02:20:44,170
listeners and more voluntary 
subscribers. 

2850
02:20:44,370 --> 02:20:46,570
Some of you are thanks to 
everyone who showed up Live 

2851
02:20:46,570 --> 02:20:48,610
Today. 
I think a lot more of you showed

2852
02:20:48,610 --> 02:20:50,610
up, but I think that happens 
when we have a new series 

2853
02:20:50,610 --> 02:20:54,730
kicking off like that and 
hopefully y'all will stick 

2854
02:20:54,730 --> 02:20:58,930
around and even if you miss a 
week or two, hopefully you don't

2855
02:20:59,770 --> 02:21:04,420
feel like you've. 
Lost the boat, missed the boat 

2856
02:21:04,420 --> 02:21:06,740
there, I suppose. 
Like if you miss a week or two 

2857
02:21:06,740 --> 02:21:08,620
is probably only 7 pages of the 
book. 

2858
02:21:08,620 --> 02:21:11,860
Yeah, so you know, I hope 
because we do end up having some

2859
02:21:11,900 --> 02:21:13,420
dropoff. 
I feel like a lot of people 

2860
02:21:13,420 --> 02:21:16,340
TuneIn for the first week or two
and then maybe becomes, you 

2861
02:21:16,340 --> 02:21:18,060
know, that they miss a week and 
they don't come back. 

2862
02:21:18,060 --> 02:21:20,660
But please, I like it when 
you're here live. 

2863
02:21:20,660 --> 02:21:23,540
I like getting your feedback and
seeing the chat going off. 

2864
02:21:23,540 --> 02:21:25,980
I do appreciate that. 
But if you're listening later 

2865
02:21:25,980 --> 02:21:27,940
after the fact, I appreciate 
that as well. 

2866
02:21:28,020 --> 02:21:30,740
Absolutely. 
Any, any way you can consume our

2867
02:21:30,740 --> 02:21:31,900
show, we're very appreciative 
of. 

2868
02:21:32,770 --> 02:21:34,770
Should we mention our next 
Patreon meet up we have this 

2869
02:21:34,770 --> 02:21:36,130
schedule for? 
Yeah, we do. 

2870
02:21:36,130 --> 02:21:36,890
We do. 
We should. 

2871
02:21:36,890 --> 02:21:39,250
We we will be having to announce
it on Patreon. 

2872
02:21:39,850 --> 02:21:42,730
But if you're here living live 
now, you can know that we're 

2873
02:21:42,730 --> 02:21:46,130
going to have our next Patreon 
Quiplash, Discord. 

2874
02:21:46,130 --> 02:21:52,370
Hangout will be on August 24th 
at 9:00 PM Eastern and that post

2875
02:21:52,370 --> 02:21:56,050
will go out with more info, but 
you can know to mark the day the

2876
02:21:56,050 --> 02:21:57,530
24th. 
And again, we'll be doing it 

2877
02:21:57,530 --> 02:22:00,130
every month, varying the day. 
So if you miss this month, 

2878
02:22:00,370 --> 02:22:03,550
you'll catch the next time. 
Patreon is a cadet branch of 

2879
02:22:03,550 --> 02:22:08,510
House, per Atheon. 
They're the financial managers 

2880
02:22:08,510 --> 02:22:12,190
of the Patreon, Yes. 
Yeah, that's it. 

2881
02:22:12,270 --> 02:22:13,710
Sure. 
And thank you for the happy 

2882
02:22:13,710 --> 02:22:16,990
belated birthday wishes as well.
Yes, it was a Shane birthday 

2883
02:22:16,990 --> 02:22:17,590
last. 
I know. 

2884
02:22:17,710 --> 02:22:21,150
That's why we took a week off. 
We went to Chicago, I went to 

2885
02:22:21,150 --> 02:22:25,070
some of Lollapalooza. 
We saw a friend of the show, 

2886
02:22:25,070 --> 02:22:29,310
Tommy Pappas, who does Tkok 
podcast and other stuff and. 

2887
02:22:30,630 --> 02:22:33,230
He was a great host and we just 
had a really great It was my 

2888
02:22:33,230 --> 02:22:36,270
30th birthday and I had a great 
time, so thank you. 

2889
02:22:36,270 --> 02:22:38,710
It was super fun, yes. 
Thanks to people who came out to

2890
02:22:38,790 --> 02:22:39,990
hang out with us while we were 
there too. 

2891
02:22:39,990 --> 02:22:42,790
Cuz yeah, we did meet a few we 
met. 

2892
02:22:42,830 --> 02:22:45,990
At least we saw a few listeners,
one of whom we met for the first

2893
02:22:45,990 --> 02:22:48,070
time. 
Other people we had met before, 

2894
02:22:48,150 --> 02:22:49,510
yes. 
So thanks y'all. 

2895
02:22:49,510 --> 02:22:54,200
Thanks as well to Joey, Jesse 
and Bran for our music and video

2896
02:22:54,200 --> 02:22:58,400
intro to Michael Klarfeld. 
Also, wonderful additions to our

2897
02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:00,960
show make us seem so much more 
professional. 

2898
02:23:01,320 --> 02:23:05,240
And thanks to the engineer for 
sound quality assistance and 

2899
02:23:05,480 --> 02:23:07,200
going forward for the Fire and 
Blood series. 

2900
02:23:07,200 --> 02:23:11,320
For now, we're trying out every 
episode on video so you can 

2901
02:23:11,320 --> 02:23:16,470
watch us on Spotify and or 
YouTube and on Spotify you can 

2902
02:23:16,470 --> 02:23:19,390
toggle Leon off video feed. 
Some people you don't want to 

2903
02:23:19,390 --> 02:23:23,230
have that much bandwidth on your
phone, but you might can flip 

2904
02:23:23,230 --> 02:23:25,110
the video on. 
When we mentioned that there's 

2905
02:23:25,110 --> 02:23:29,950
artwork or maps on screen, or if
you just want to see what shirts

2906
02:23:29,950 --> 02:23:34,510
we're wearing, I have my, you 
know, John Cocco Theater Dragon 

2907
02:23:34,510 --> 02:23:37,390
here from This was the premiere,
the premiere of House of the 

2908
02:23:37,390 --> 02:23:40,270
Dragon at that George's Theater 
in Santa Fe, and Shay and I went

2909
02:23:40,310 --> 02:23:42,080
to that. 
We were very. 

2910
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:43,160
There was a shirt for it. 
Huh. 

2911
02:23:43,160 --> 02:23:44,760
Shirt for it? 
Yes, this is one of my most 

2912
02:23:44,760 --> 02:23:47,640
prized fandom shirts. 
Very cool. 

2913
02:23:47,640 --> 02:23:54,560
I have a I got this shirt at the
official kind of Thrones Game of

2914
02:23:54,560 --> 02:23:56,240
Thrones con. 
Game of Thrones con LA. 

2915
02:23:56,280 --> 02:23:57,760
It's a host of Dragon shirt. 
Nice. 

2916
02:23:58,830 --> 02:24:01,710
Not a house shirt, Not so. 
You should be house to show, so 

2917
02:24:01,710 --> 02:24:03,470
you should be hearing about the 
same amount of us, but you'll be

2918
02:24:03,470 --> 02:24:05,270
seeing even more of us if you've
been. 

2919
02:24:05,310 --> 02:24:07,670
You might want to toggle on to 
see my weird drinks. 

2920
02:24:07,830 --> 02:24:11,070
Yeah, I'll do another soy sauce 
pickle juice one next week. 

2921
02:24:11,070 --> 02:24:13,070
Someone someone suggested that 
you should really throw people 

2922
02:24:13,070 --> 02:24:14,910
for a loop some week and just 
drink water. 

2923
02:24:16,070 --> 02:24:18,190
My drink today is clear. 
Look at this clear drink. 

2924
02:24:18,190 --> 02:24:20,830
I'm not wasting stomach. 
My stomach space with empty 

2925
02:24:20,830 --> 02:24:26,140
calories from water. 
An insight into Sean's beverage 

2926
02:24:26,180 --> 02:24:28,900
thought process there. 
And with that, we'll see you 

2927
02:24:28,900 --> 02:24:32,340
next week. 
For more valor, reread us.