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Aegon had been crowned when the 
Conquest began, or arguably 

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before it began. 
No one had actually bent a 

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single knee other than people 
who had already bent their knee 

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to him as their Lord. 
But now that it was nearing 

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completion, a second crowning 
became more sensible, and it 

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made sense for a variety of 
reasons. 

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He had wanted all along, as a 
strategy to demonstrate his 

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power as a Dragon Lord 1st and 
then as a king, and with that 

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power to overwhelm everyone. 
And what better way to 

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demonstrate that? 
By being ordained by the most 

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powerful religious leader in the
biggest city, with Valerian on 

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hand for all to see. 
None could doubt the stories 

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they had heard of the ease in 
which the Targaryens had 

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subjugated dynasties that had 
ruled for eons. 

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Everyone would know, and 
everyone would know why. 

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But even with all those eyes on 
the Dragons, with all those 

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knees bent to the Conqueror, and
even with the seven above 

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seemingly accepting Aegon as 
their king, there remained many 

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who did not. 
They didn't see it that way. 

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Some chose independence, Some 
descended into. 

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I'd say chose Chaos, but more 
like Chaos chose them. 

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Some followed different gods, so
the ordaining of the High Septon

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didn't mean as much, but all 
would pay a high price for their

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shot at freedom. 
And I say shot because not all 

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would be successful. 
Today we discuss the unbowed and

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more on this episode of History 
of Westeros podcast. 

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Hello and welcome everybody. 
We are live almost every 3:00 PM

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00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:31,480
Eastern on YouTube on Sundays. 
You can catch the video anytime 

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00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,560
afterwards or an edited version 
on Spotify. 

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00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,520
And the audio only version is 
available everywhere you listen 

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00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,880
to podcasts. 
And it's ad free if you listen 

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00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,200
on Patreon. 
Sean, what do you got to drink 

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today? 
I'm I'm boring as usual. 

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Chocolate. 
Coffee in a thermos. 

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You know, I'm I'm consistent at 
least. 

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I do think that your shirt is 
kind of Halloween evocative. 

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That castle looks like a ghost 
face for the flaming head. 

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You're you're right. 
It's a high tower shirt. 

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We like the way the tower does 
kind of have eyes and a mouth. 

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And I don't like a Carrot Top 
head here, I guess you could 

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say. 
Yeah, it's Jack O Lantern ish, 

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but tower style. 
That's why it's screaming. 

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It's on fire. 
No, I'm Carrot Top I. 

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Try to make an orangish drink. 
It's kind of creamy, you know, 

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the the naked protein drinks 
haven't been the the naked 

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drinks are there, but not the 
protein ones. 

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So I've had to branch out. 
This is the the Mango naked 

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drink, but with the Bolthouse 
vanilla protein drink and of 

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course, Mountain Dew. 
So kind of orangey. 

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Halloweeny. 
Sweet like candy and crazy. 

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Just crazy and kind of scary 
like Halloween too. 

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'Cause, you know, I'm afraid of 
what that would taste like. 

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I thought my branzixture was 
pretty Halloween evocative too. 

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Yes, human horn brand, indeed. 
So shout out to our excellent 

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and smart friend Nina, who has 
received a question on her blog,

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00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,320
Good Queen allie.tumblr.com with
one Ellen Allie. 

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00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:12,960
If Tywin was to remarry, what 
kind of marriage alliance would 

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00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,920
he look for? 
It obviously wouldn't be a 

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marriage for love. 
What would he aim for? 

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00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,600
So check 
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com for 

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how Nina responds to this 
question. 

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It's not straightforward, yet it
is straightforward. 

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I like her answer quite a bit. 
I don't want to go on too much 

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of A tangent, but it it makes me
think, why didn't Tyrone 

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remarry? 
It seems like there would have 

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been a valuable strategic. 
Political move. 

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He didn't want to. 
It's simple as that. 

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He did not want to, and he 
thinks. 

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He's above it. 
Yeah, he's above it. 

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He's willing to tell people you 
need to do this, you need to do 

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that. 
But when it comes down to it, 

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he's not willing to do it. 
Yeah, he's a huge hypocrite. 

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00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:47,280
We've said it a million times 
and he's. 

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Exactly right. 
But I wonder if. 

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00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,480
And if someone had confronted 
him, who but who? 

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00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,200
Literally who would confront? 
Tywin. 

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00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,120
If seriously, who confronts 
Tywin? 

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00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,320
Let's say Kevin does. 
Kevin. 

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He'll shut him down. 
Tywin's like, you have no 

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authority over me. 
I'm not talking about. 

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That's what he did to anyone who
even remotely brought. 

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It up. 
Do you think internally it was 

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just like he hadn't gotten over 
his wife or oh, yes, of course, 

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Like there's no replacing her 
like he was. 

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She was perfect for him. 
And there's no, there's no 

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replacing either who she was or 
her or the circumstances, their 

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upbringing as well as someone 
who was not too close to him in 

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terms of their value, views on 
incest, but still within the the

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close enough to him that he 
could see her as an equal or or 

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someone that's not beneath him, 
maybe, if not an equal, not 

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someone way far beneath him. 
So yeah, basically a huge 

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hypocrite and very proud. 
The combination they're in and a

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bad father, all those things. 
We loved it. 

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We loved to talk bad about Tywin
because it's so easy. 

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And you know what? 
That all rubbed off on his kids.

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I think that's fairway to call. 
Describe all his kids 

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hypocritical and arrogant or 
whatever. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
And proud. 

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Yeah. 
And yeah. 

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And he it's, it's very, very 
well written all of that. 

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You know the reason he evokes 
such like I was like who who 

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would talk about like because 
Tywin like it's personal like we

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thought about him so much you 
know and and and it's it's it's 

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sunk in and you know it it 
bleeds into real world stuff 

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like how real fathers can be 
the. 

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Fact that it didn't cause real 
frustration in you thinking 

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about it means it had to be 
written really Well, yeah, yeah,

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exactly. 
It just will come full circle on

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this. 
Like why did that? 

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Why did that slightly bother me 
just now? 

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Because it's so well done and 
it's realistic and it's like 

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damn bad fathers really can 
bring bring that that anger 

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streak out. 
So anyway, yeah, so questions. 

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If you have any questions, 
whether they're live or 

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00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,600
something you occurs to you 
while you're listening while 

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00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,320
we're not live, send it to 
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 

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00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,320
type it in the comments if 
you're if you're watching live 

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00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,160
and this episode is brought to 
you in part by patrons such as. 

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00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,520
I I like how Aziz, you you 
dubbed the newer patrons as new 

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pledges and older patrons as 
veterans. 

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00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,680
That's a good way we'll start 
off. 

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00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,600
With a couple of veterans. 
Nov Shadow binder from the 

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eastern mountains and lakes. 
That one sounds pretty 

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mysterious. 
Tree girl of houseglade. 

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We speak for the trees. 
You go tree girl. 

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And Lord George Stormsville, the
cunning Lord of the Chiliad and 

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Warden of the East. 
It's hard to say. 

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00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,800
Lord George, Lord George storms 
Lord George Stormsville. 

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00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,800
That's that's up there with 
Irish wristwatch. 

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Lord of Jordans storms. 
Yeah, never mind. 

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OK, yeah, it's really hard. 
A couple newer ones we've got 

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here. 
Vanessa of Winterfell, champion 

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of Sansa. 
Anyone who wants to be ex 

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00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,040
champion of Sansa, I'm going to 
say your name. 

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00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:44,440
I'm going to give you some 
credit. 

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00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,840
You get Sean's eye that way. 
Narcosis Wet star Dane motto A 

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00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,560
dry sword is a dull sword. 
Nice. 

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00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,840
I think Narcosis has been around
is a returning had been there 

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00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,000
and came back. 
That name's very familiar. 

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00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,760
I like that one a lot. 
Narcosis Dane. 

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00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,280
That's cool. 
Wet star. 

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00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,040
One last one. 
Another mouthful here stives the

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00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,720
white captain of the hopeful 
patriots, a band of exile 

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00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,440
Knights motto. 
The world ends when hope dies. 

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00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,920
Yeah, that's cool. 
Well, I hope Hope doesn't die 

146
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,920
then, because I would like the 
world to continue. 

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00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,240
You can find all these Patreon 
names, the History of 

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00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,680
westeros.com along with 
everything else we mentioned 

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00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,480
throughout this episode. 
Anytime we bring up patrons or 

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00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,200
links or any sort of thing that 
has to do with interacting with 

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00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,159
us or linking to our things 
history, westrose.com should 

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00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:37,480
have it. 
All you know, not only can you 

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00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,799
find those Patreon names, you 
could get your own Patreon name.

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00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:42,159
Good, True. 
Good. 

155
00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:42,919
Good. 
True. 

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00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:44,240
Good said. 
Well said. 

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00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,200
Yeah, Yeah, so I'll mention 
episodes at the end of this one 

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00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,000
that relate to this one to keep 
you immersed if you want to stay

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00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,600
in Westeros. 
And we'll also kick it off with 

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00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,360
the trivia question, the answer,
which is also at the end of this

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episode. 
And as we've been doing lately, 

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00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,280
the new pattern with the trivia 
questions is the answer can be 

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00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,120
found within the episode. 
Who gave Princess Maria of Dorne

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00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,320
her nickname, the Yellow Toad? 
Who dubbed her the Yellow Toad? 

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00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,160
Our first section is called Open
Gates at Old Town, and we'll 

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00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:18,120
start it off with a quote. 
The greatest city in all of 

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00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,200
Westeros, Old Town, was ringed 
about with massive walls. 

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00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:26,120
And ruled by the High Towers of 
the High Tower, the oldest, 

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00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,680
richest, and most powerful of 
the noble houses of the Reach, 

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00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,800
Old Town was also the center of 
the faith. 

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There dwelt the High Septon, 
Father of the Faithful, the 

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00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:41,560
voice of the new gods on earth, 
who commanded the obedience of 

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00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:45,640
millions of devout throughout 
the realms save in the North, 

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00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,360
where the Old Gods still held 
sway, and the blades of the 

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00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,360
Faith Militant. 
The fighting order the small 

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00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,080
folk called the Stars and 
Swords. 

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00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,640
Yet when Aegon Targaryen and his
host approached Old Town, they 

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00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,280
found the city gates open and 
Lord Hightower waiting to make 

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00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,480
his submission. 
This is something that's a 

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00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,160
slightly puzzling that we've 
talked about, and it affects the

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00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,960
timing. 
Maybe not puzzling, but curious 

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00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,760
or interesting or worth 
discussing. 

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00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,360
And that by that I mean that 
Aegon didn't know until he got 

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00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,680
there that they had surrendered,
apparently. 

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00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:22,520
You know, maybe he brought some 
scouts. 

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00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,400
Go ahead. 
And they're like, they came 

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00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,600
back, like the doors are just 
open. 

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00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,760
Like, I don't think they're 
going to try to fight you, you 

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00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,000
know, I don't. 
It might be a trick, but I don't

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00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,320
think that's a very good trick. 
Just leaving your doors open and

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00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,120
I'm like, it's like, seems 
pretty genuine, right? 

192
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,840
Seems pretty sincere. 
So it's it's it would have been 

193
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,440
really interesting to know at 
what point did they learn that, 

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00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:44,560
yeah, they're not going to fight
you. 

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00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:46,480
They may have already known 
they've already suspected it 

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00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,960
because, well, if they were 
planning on fighting, why not 

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00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,080
join forces with their overlord 
at the field of fire? 

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00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,680
Why wait and try for a second 
try, especially after the first 

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00:10:56,680 --> 00:11:00,320
one was such a complete failure.
So that doesn't really make much

200
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,320
sense, does it? 
So Aegon was probably at least 

201
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,320
suspecting that they were going 
to concede, or that they already

202
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:07,920
would. 
It may have been odd that they 

203
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,440
didn't send an envoy out ahead 
to announce this, but maybe 

204
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,600
that's also just how the history
is recorded, and it's exactly 

205
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,400
how it happened. 
And I don't blame them either. 

206
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,760
I mean, I would have knelt too. 
I would have knelt fast. 

207
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,960
But no one knelt harder than Old
Town. 

208
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,320
I mean, they they knelt big. 
They planned ahead. 

209
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,360
They had a whole cover story as 
to why they were going to kneel.

210
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,120
The gods told them to like they 
were very prepared. 

211
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,040
This was not a Should we kneel? 
OK, yeah, we'd better kneel or 

212
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,120
else. 
Now this was this was very 

213
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,800
planned. 
Preordained, like ordained is is

214
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,800
a funny word to use here because
this was preordained. 

215
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,360
Like the moment Aegon sent out 
his letters. 

216
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,640
Apparently this prophecy came to
the High Septon, or he started 

217
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,560
praying over it and seven days 
later, etcetera. 

218
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,960
So they had decided to bend the 
knee, apparently all the way 

219
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,840
back when the Crown land, before
the Crown lands were even 

220
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,240
settled. 
But they were also prepared. 

221
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,080
I supposed, to change their 
minds if Aegon just died during 

222
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,240
the conquest, which is maybe why
they never said anything. 

223
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,200
Is that how you read it, Sean? 
Like they were just they they 

224
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,640
were leaving their doors open in
more ways than one, yeah. 

225
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,840
I I hadn't considered why. 
It did seem to me like for 

226
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,080
multiple reasons that they 
should. 

227
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,320
Kneel. 
Like, you know, not only did it 

228
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,720
seem like they just couldn't 
beat him and they have a lot to 

229
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,520
lose, like their their castle 
and their people and their 

230
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,720
resources all getting burned by 
a dragon would be, you know, not

231
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,960
that it wasn't awful for 
Harrenhal to get built, but 

232
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,840
Harrenhal didn't have the 
history to it. 

233
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,840
That Old Town has, you know, and
now Aegon has more forces than 

234
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,560
before. 
After conquering those photos, 

235
00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:44,600
now there's extra people with 
them to come attack. 

236
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,160
There's all kinds of reasons, 
and I also do feel like they're.

237
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,920
Their prophecy. 
You know, here and there. 

238
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,720
Maybe some people genuinely 
believed it, but it's a pretty 

239
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,920
easy thing to believe, you know,
like God told me to do the right

240
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,800
thing. 
Well, it's going to do the right

241
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,680
thing anyway, but sure, the God 
told me if I jump off this 

242
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:05,360
building, I will die. 
Like, Oh yeah, did God tell you 

243
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,160
that? 
Or science. 

244
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,640
Yeah, I guess I would jump off 
the building, whatever the 

245
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,920
reason is. 
Like whatever justification 

246
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,720
either way. 
But but yeah, all three agree. 

247
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,400
Yeah, I did. 
They didn't send someone out 

248
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,800
ahead of time to announce that 
is is interesting. 

249
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,480
And again, maybe they did. 
But maybe it makes for less 

250
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,360
interesting of a story, right? 
Maybe it's more symbolic for 

251
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,840
Aegon to show up and her doors 
were open, rather than the 

252
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,080
middleman story of some envoy. 
Or maybe they even tried, but 

253
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560
the envoy couldn't get there. 
Or maybe they had instructions, 

254
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,480
only talk to Aegon, but they 
weren't allowed to talk. 

255
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,040
Day I can. 
I can see other. 

256
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,760
Behind the scenes minutiae that 
is just citizen as interesting 

257
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,320
as important for the story. 
Yeah. 

258
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,760
And and we've seen this before 
throughout Fire and Blood and 

259
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,560
other parts of the history where
it seems like is that really 

260
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,240
what happened or is that just a 
way to come out and make it look

261
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,120
nice afterwards? 
And we're not saying like you 

262
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,240
know, is George fooling us here?
No, I mean, like did George 

263
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,760
write the history in a way so 
that it shows how the in world 

264
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,960
historians would have done 
things that real world 

265
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,560
historians tend to do? 
It's something that we've come 

266
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,280
back to many times of course, 
but this is an important spot to

267
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:15,320
remind ourselves of that because
just as say for example, the 

268
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,560
death of of Argelact arrogant, 
like did he was it really just a

269
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,120
lat one-on-one duel where they 
each wounded each other once and

270
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,120
all very stored. 
But that's why it's written that

271
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,520
way. 
The story resonates. 

272
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,600
That's what they want people to 
believe because it it keeps them

273
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,960
in place or makes them believe 
something that they think is 

274
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,640
important to upholding their 
authority. 

275
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,800
Or the story of Aegon, the story
of Oris Parathy, and this is 

276
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,480
something they have engineered, 
just like the story of Old Town.

277
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,720
Surrender is not a story of 
cowardice, right? 

278
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,360
It's some like when Tauren goes 
back NA lot of his constituents 

279
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,600
will be like, well that was 
cowardly, but we don't hear that

280
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,760
about Old Town because it's 
like, oh, it's not us. 

281
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,560
The gods told us to surrender. 
Who says no to the gods? 

282
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,920
It's not cowardly when the gods 
tell you to do it. 

283
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,800
And it's just the same thing. 
It's not dirty to steal Argylla 

284
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,880
Durenden and make her your wife 
if you're noble about it, right?

285
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,040
And it's like, well, that's you 
got to read between the lines 

286
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,960
and be like, there's really no 
way to make that noble. 

287
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,640
But their their cell, they're 
trying to make it sound noble 

288
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,280
because they want this new ruler
who's taken over a dynasty that 

289
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,920
existed for 8000 years to. 
They want that to be a smooth 

290
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,560
transition, as smooth as 
possible. 

291
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,960
And you know, making him look 
good is one of the best ways to 

292
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,240
do that, Make him look 
honorable. 

293
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,560
Along the same lines, some of 
the constituents in the north. 

294
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,400
At that time, might have been 
grumbling, right? 

295
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,000
But it's not the way the story 
goes. 

296
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,680
It's not the way the Targaryens 
wanted to be told. 

297
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,000
They don't want the story to be 
this coward in the North is now 

298
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,840
one of our wardens, right? 
They want to be this wise man in

299
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,040
the North did the right thing. 
That's the the the lesson and 

300
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,720
the legacy. 
You know, Aegon's not trying to 

301
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,440
shame them either. 
He doesn't want them to bend the

302
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,680
knees in and look bad. 
He want 'cause they're now his 

303
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,680
like second and third and 
fourths in command. 

304
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,200
Like you don't want cowards and 
your your authority structure 

305
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,560
and your hierarchy structure are
these people who look like 

306
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,840
cowards. 
If they are, you don't want them

307
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,160
to look like that, you know? 
But you do want people that are 

308
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,360
wise and loyal and you know and 
know when they can win and when 

309
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,600
they shouldn't. 
When they can't you know and to 

310
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,120
use common sense rather than 
pride or or think of their own 

311
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,280
people, think of their the 
common folk beneath them and the

312
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,680
responsibility you have towards 
them. 

313
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,960
So and and everything that 
happened throughout the war, 

314
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,520
they decided they were going to 
bend the knee. 

315
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,680
Maybe they didn't tell anybody, 
but everything they saw 

316
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,640
throughout the war just 
confirmed that their decision 

317
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,080
was or that their command from 
above was correct. 

318
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,960
Like Yep, the gods were right 
about that one. 

319
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,000
And as you pointed out Sean and 
it just got worse. 

320
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,040
Like now Aegon's army is larger 
like the time to stand up to 

321
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,440
them has passed like it's harder
now than it was. 

322
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,280
And Nina points points as well. 
The Hightowers had a lot to 

323
00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,960
lose. 
They had more to lose than a lot

324
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,320
of these others. 
Old Town is the biggest city in 

325
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:02,800
the region. 
Of course, that event or in the 

326
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,920
realm, eventually that changes. 
But again, we got to remind 

327
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,960
ourselves King's Landing is not 
bigger than Old Town at this 

328
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,400
point. 
It's barely started at this 

329
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,720
point. 
Say, hey, been the second 

330
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,319
biggest? 
Well, yeah, that's still a lot 

331
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:13,520
to lose, right. 
Yeah, you're right. 

332
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,359
Yeah, that's you're right. 
That's almost irrelevant point 

333
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,720
like whether it's first, second,
third. 

334
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,079
It's huge. 
It's really important and that 

335
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:24,000
that's what matters, not which 
exactly how large it is compared

336
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,359
to the others and the faith of 
the Citadel. 

337
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,680
Like it's not just the city, 
it's the heart of religion in 

338
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,600
the entire country. 
Like what happens if they play 

339
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,320
it stubbornly? 
What if they play it like 

340
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,400
Argalac or something like that 
and decide to go down swinging? 

341
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,960
Well, at the end of all that, 
you might have no more Great 

342
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,320
Sept in Old Town. 
It might have been destroyed, or

343
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,360
the High Septon has been killed,
or just really bad things that 

344
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,720
make it hard for everyone to get
along afterwards. 

345
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,480
Like you don't want to. 
It's the same thing. 

346
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,280
You don't want to cause that bad
blood that lingers for 

347
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,920
generations. 
You want to try to minimize 

348
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,720
that. 
That's why if if you're going to

349
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,440
take on a family, you wipe them 
out entirely. 

350
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,920
Don't Don't let any of them 
survive so they can come get 

351
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,000
revenge later, like the hair and
the Blacks family, or maybe even

352
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,680
the gardeners and maybe a few 
other lesser examples. 

353
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,280
But you know, that's just one 
way to keep peace in the realm 

354
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,440
is to eliminate all those who 
would otherwise disturb that 

355
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,280
peace. 
It's not always just, but it is 

356
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,880
effective. 
To keep peace in a realm where 

357
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,200
the leaders are chosen randomly 
by the oldest born son. 

358
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,040
Like, that's given that that's 
the random way you're choosing 

359
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,880
your leaders. 
Yeah, it's already not a great 

360
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,080
system. 
Of course they think it's a 

361
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:47,040
great system. 
They think, of course. 

362
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,320
Well, why would you do it any 
other way? 

363
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,160
Well it's like why Of course 
that's the best system. 

364
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,000
Just because it's has problems 
doesn't mean there's anything 

365
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,120
better. 
Of course that's that's what we 

366
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:58,600
that's how we look at a lot of 
our systems and I was like what 

367
00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,600
could be better? 
It sucks. 

368
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,800
But what could be better? 
Well maybe there are better 

369
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,200
things. 
Anyway so and this is we say 

370
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,240
it's and we talked about this 
from a Hightower perspective and

371
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,160
we we covered this in the Under 
the Dragons episode. 

372
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,600
We have no way of knowing how 
sincere they were. 

373
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,160
They may have been completely 
sincere. 

374
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,640
They may have truly believed the
gods told them this, or maybe 

375
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,120
the High Septon did and Lord 
Manford Hightower went along 

376
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:23,360
with it. 
Or maybe the other way around. 

377
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,080
The High Septon is the one who's
a little bit of a politician but

378
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,880
makes all the pious noises. 
And Lord Manford Hightower was 

379
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,800
the one that actually believed 
was like, that's that God said, 

380
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,040
so it's done, you know, So 
there's no way to be sure. 

381
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,680
But it's really interesting to 
think about because it's 

382
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,440
probably not simple. 
It's probably not, oh, he's just

383
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,200
super devout and not political 
at all. 

384
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,080
Or he's super political and not 
devout at all. 

385
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,520
It's probably somewhere in 
between. 

386
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,440
It's also probably not just him,
right? 

387
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,280
It's him and the septum and the 
other members of their family 

388
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,160
and the other. 
I don't know what Sub Septums 

389
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,440
would be called Cardinals or 
bishops or whatever. 

390
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,640
And there's probably like some 
equivalent of like a maester and

391
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,600
a master coin. 
It's probably a lot of people 

392
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:03,760
getting together trying to 
figure out. 

393
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,920
How to manage this right? 
And among those people, there's 

394
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,240
probably a mix of people who 
were like We should stand up and

395
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,400
fight, we should not sacrifice 
our people to Dragons. 

396
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:18,200
What do the gods want us to do? 
And all those people will be so 

397
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,440
easily placated by saying God 
told us, like the political 

398
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,880
people. 
Like, sure, that's a good story.

399
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,040
Yeah, the the wise people. 
Like, if that story works, let's

400
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,880
do it. 
The the the devout people will 

401
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,560
obviously go along with it. 
So it's. 

402
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,960
I was really mad that he 
surrendered until I found out 

403
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,120
that God said so. 
Then it was cool and like, oh, 

404
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,800
OK, I get it now. 
Yeah, and that's and that's a 

405
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,040
great point Nina makes here too,
which is how do you look at an 

406
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:48,280
Undefeated, basically. 
Unstoppable rolling force here 

407
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,640
of Aegon and the Dragons. 
How do you look at that and say 

408
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,600
this isn't or like ordained? 
You know it's hard to argue that

409
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,600
the warrior isn't behind Aegon 
when he just beats everybody 

410
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,760
that that worships the warrior 
more directly and he's and he 

411
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,760
does worship the warrior now at 
this point. 

412
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,600
So how do you ignore that the 
gods you either have to say the 

413
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,520
gods have chosen this or you 
have to say that the gods don't 

414
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,880
want this but they're losing. 
You know, like how do you frame 

415
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,400
that? 
It's difficult when. 

416
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,640
You live in a world when your 
beliefs exist because you think 

417
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,840
God's made it this way. 
So if the God's made it this 

418
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,200
way, then you have to look at 
what's happening and say, well, 

419
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,640
the God's made it this way. 
I guess this is how it is, that 

420
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,360
God's Aegon is just steamrolling
everyone. 

421
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,120
That must be what the gods want 
because you can't have it both 

422
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,400
ways. 
You can't believe the gods are 

423
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,120
in charge and then also believe 
the gods don't want this. 

424
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,280
You can believe they're testing 
you. 

425
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,640
You can always like. 
Do that sort of thing. 

426
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,200
But but you don't have to. 
That's not the only choice you 

427
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,600
have. 
You know, you can also say this 

428
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,920
is what they want. 
I don't want to create too much 

429
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,640
of A tangent, but plenty of 
people do do that. 

430
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,240
Oh yeah, you can. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

431
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,800
But people that have a lot to 
lose tend not to like the 

432
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,440
Hightowers, right? 
They're like, well, we let's 

433
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,920
come up with a reason that fits 
this world view. 

434
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,360
But also gets us what we want or
keeps us from losing, you know, 

435
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,600
Keeps us from dying and all our 
people dying. 

436
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,080
Yeah, keeps us. 
From dying, which you, which I 

437
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:14,880
get like I think that's a fine 
time to tell a few lies if 

438
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,520
you're going to save a bunch of 
lives. 

439
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,880
Yes. 
I don't think honesty Trump's 

440
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,760
keep survival. 
You know what I mean? 

441
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,800
Like there's there's something 
to be said for honor and 

442
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,320
honesty, but not at the cost of 
just, you know, people dying, 

443
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:26,800
especially other people. 
People who aren't you. 

444
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,920
Like that's that's the way 
that's even worse. 

445
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,920
So. 
Anyway, whatever was actually in

446
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,440
these people's hearts and minds,
we can never know for sure this 

447
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,040
is what actually happened. 
Quote. 

448
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,720
Thus it was that no men from Old
Town burned on the field of 

449
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,680
fire, though the High Towers 
were bannermen to the gardeners 

450
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,480
of High Garden. 
And thus it was that Lord 

451
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,520
Manfred rode forth to greet 
Aegon the dragon as he 

452
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,560
approached, and to OfferUp his 
sword, his city, and his oath. 

453
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,920
Some say that Lord Hightower 
also offered up the hand of his 

454
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:07,040
youngest daughter, which Aegon 
declined politely lest it offend

455
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,440
his 2 Queens. 
We discussed that marriage offer

456
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,720
at the time in the Under the 
Dragons episode, so refer back 

457
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,600
to that if you're curious about 
about it. 

458
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,480
We also, I believe, discussed 
some of it at the beginning of 

459
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,600
the Conquest, Beginning of the 
Fire and Blood Reread because 

460
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,840
there were several offers of 
this sort and we covered them 

461
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,720
all at once rather than 
individually. 

462
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,680
So this is wise, like the Starks
to bend, but a little more 

463
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,320
creative in their justification,
but also. 

464
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,760
Possibly a huge parallel, right?
It might be prophecy. 

465
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,160
There may have been some 
supernatural dreaming, or at 

466
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,440
least influence here. 
And in the part of the decision,

467
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,520
Neil, whether it was stated or 
genuine, whether it was just a 

468
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,960
cover story for kneeling or 
something that actually happened

469
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,960
or both, we don't know, but it's
very possible something that 

470
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,160
happened in both cases. 
Just a quick tangent, just 

471
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,840
thinking about that. 
Just for example, let's say that

472
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,400
this knowledge of the others 
coming one day that that Aegon 

473
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,560
potentially saw that viscera 
saw, you know that we we seem to

474
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,400
know that now what if Torrance 
Stark saw it also or some other 

475
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,960
earlier Stark saw it and was 
passing it down. 

476
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,640
And similarly, you know I think 
there might be an argument for 

477
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,160
like tell everyone make sure 
everyone knows and is on board 

478
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,040
and is ready for this prophecy. 
But maybe that you seem crazy or

479
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:25,200
you get twisted interpretations 
or whatever but but but I'm just

480
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,480
saying that might be a reason. 
Torn might have known he needed 

481
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,920
to surrender. 
He might have known this was 

482
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,160
coming, but he still needed to 
put on the right show, went 

483
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,800
down, talked to Aegon. 
That might have been part of the

484
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,720
negotiations, you know and and I
wanted to look right, right And 

485
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,800
I wonder to if that could have 
been passed down through 

486
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,160
generations of Starks and might 
have died when Aries burned the 

487
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:49,720
this the Stark of Winterfell and
his oldest son Ned might have 

488
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,200
just not known, not have known 
the prophecy anyway. 

489
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,440
I'm wondering if it's possible 
other people in other places 

490
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,800
were aware of the same prophecy 
that Aegon might have been aware

491
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,080
of also. 
Just like we have wondered about

492
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,400
the tracking down through the 
years of Aegon's dream and who 

493
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,600
it went to and who learned about
it. 

494
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,000
If there was a Stark prophecy, 
or if the Stark if there must be

495
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,800
a Stark and Winterfell isn't 
just a political necessity, but 

496
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,160
may have some supernatural 
wrapped into it and maybe that 

497
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,080
part was forgotten. 
Some of the original reasoning 

498
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,600
behind it may have been forgot. 
Yeah, that's possible. 

499
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,640
That's certainly or kept secret.
Or kept secret? 

500
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,920
Yes, yes, absolutely. 
Yeah, that seems entirely 

501
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,680
possible. 
Again, going back to all ideas 

502
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,560
of like what's in their hearts 
and minds when they're 

503
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,440
surrendering to Aegon. 
There, there maybe there really 

504
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,960
was a prophecy, and some people 
really did believe it, you know,

505
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,080
or really even knew about it 
long ago, you know? 

506
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,440
And and who knows what like vast
knowledge is in the Hightower. 

507
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,400
We know what was written here, 
but maybe they they framed it 

508
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,600
as. 
The will of the seven. 

509
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,280
But there could have been other 
prophecies or other writings 

510
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,080
that they referred to that may 
have worried them, but they 

511
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,960
didn't want to make that part of
their cover story because, like,

512
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,080
we're not going to talk about 
some ancient text here. 

513
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,360
No one's going to care about 
that. 

514
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,000
That's just going to look 
cowardly or right. 

515
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,720
We don't want to cloud if you 
don't want to confuse the issue,

516
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,200
yeah. 
Because we do. 

517
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960
We certainly know they have a 
lot of knowledge, a lot of vast 

518
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,280
stores, and of things that we 
couldn't possibly know, things 

519
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,880
that we couldn't dream of or 
guess at both in their own tower

520
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,200
and in the Citadel. 
Perhaps they would have access 

521
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,840
to both? 
And so something interesting too

522
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,920
they were let one of the 
decisions that they made or one 

523
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,000
of the results of their decision
staying out of the field of fire

524
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:23,240
was that they were not there for
the restructuring of the reach. 

525
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,400
Now that May, they probably 
wouldn't have had any impact on 

526
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,360
that. 
To be fair, they probably 

527
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:27,720
wouldn't have changed anyone's 
mind. 

528
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,760
They probably wouldn't have 
stopped the Tyrells from being 

529
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,920
given High Garden and they may 
not have cared to interfere with

530
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,760
that. 
But we're told that there was a 

531
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,200
lot of. 
Reach House is upset with that 

532
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,040
decision. 
High Towers, not among them, 

533
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,120
because they just weren't there 
for that. 

534
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,200
They weren't part of the 
decision. 

535
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,240
They weren't there to gripe. 
And then maybe since they hadn't

536
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,880
yet surrendered, they weren't 
going to make any waves until 

537
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,680
they're like, I'm going to kneel
to you. 

538
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,560
But man, you shouldn't have 
given the Tyrells High Garden. 

539
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Man, that was that was a bad 
call. 

540
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,960
It could also, it could also be 
because they knew that was part 

541
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,400
of the prophecy. 
They knew that centuries into 

542
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,360
the future, that they would 
still exist, be subject to the 

543
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:08,320
Tyrells, and need to team up 
with the Targaryens to fight the

544
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,520
others. 
You know, they might have known 

545
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,160
like, Oh well, it's it's all 
happening. 

546
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,640
Look, it's in this thing, you 
know? 

547
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,880
If there was some kind of 
prophecy or dream of that regard

548
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,080
that that may have been 
referring to them marrying the 

549
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,440
dragon during the dance later, 
that would be interesting. 

550
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,840
Of course that would lead to 
very bad things, but. 

551
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,480
That's the uncertainty of 
prophecy, isn't it? 

552
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,720
Yeah, So it's certainly not the 
first time that they have bent 

553
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,360
the knee either. 
The type, the high towers. 

554
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:35,360
They were kings of their own way
back in the day. 

555
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,440
They had to be subject to the 
Gardener Kings, and there was a 

556
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,600
time when they weren't. 
But it was Lyman to Hightower 

557
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,080
who rather than lose it all. 
Which is a similar decisions 

558
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:50,920
like, look, you either have to 
bend the knee and accept the new

559
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,880
overlord or you might lose your 
tower, your city and all that. 

560
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,280
You can still keep it, but under
my authority. 

561
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,880
And just like Lyman Hightower, 
Manfred Hightower took the 

562
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,600
lesson and was like, Yep, better
to lose a little authority than 

563
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,680
to lose everything, so. 
Pretty pragmatic, pretty smart. 

564
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,920
And from the Targaryen side, as 
much as we looked at this from 

565
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,600
the Hightower side, the 
Targaryen side is pretty 

566
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,600
interesting. 
What would they think? 

567
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,920
Would they think this was a 
little? 

568
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,400
Would Aegon think this was a 
little? 

569
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,480
Would he see the politics and 
the the the gamesmanship behind 

570
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,600
this decision to be like, sure. 
They waited this long to tell me

571
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,160
they were going to surrender. 
I think he kind of understood 

572
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,600
what that meant. 
They were waiting to see what 

573
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,640
happened, to see, to give 
themselves the option. 

574
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Of backing out because they 
couldn't support, like you said,

575
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,760
not only did they not support 
their Liege, they didn't support

576
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:45,920
him. 
He could have, they could have 

577
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640
show brought their troops to the
field of fire to fight for him 

578
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,680
if they had really been on his 
side from the beginning. 

579
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,520
So these are the kind of things 
I think he would think about 

580
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,560
now. 
Ultimately they bent the knee 

581
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,920
and what he said was bend the 
knee and I'll treat you well. 

582
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,880
So he's not going to go back on 
that, but he's also. 

583
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Not going to fully be able to 
count on them as like hardcore 

584
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,720
loyalists cause a he understands
that they have a lot to protect.

585
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,280
They have a lot of wealth that 
they are at stake to lose that 

586
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:16,800
they could lose if they play it 
wrong. 

587
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,200
So he knows that they're always 
going to put that first. 

588
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,600
Even though he's their king, he 
can destroy them. 

589
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,680
He knows that's the thing that 
matters to them most is their 

590
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,360
own wealth and power, which of 
course it matters to them most. 

591
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,720
So he's not he's he's neither 
foolish. 

592
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,560
Naive or overly trusting about 
this, I think. 

593
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,160
I mean Aegon doesn't come off as
someone that would be overly 

594
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,680
swayed by such things. 
On the other hand, there is 

595
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,040
examples that we're going to get
to of him being overconfident as

596
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,160
much as he projected extreme 
confidence because he really was

597
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,720
that great in terms of dominance
and power and having Valerian. 

598
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,880
There's some signs that it maybe
went a little bit to his head. 

599
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,240
Maybe he thought, OK, I've 
proved my point. 

600
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,360
No one's going to stand up to me
now, Who would possibly fight me

601
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,560
now? 
I've dominated everyone and 

602
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,000
conquered almost the entire 
continent. 

603
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,920
Well, there were some, but he 
may have taken some of their 

604
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,360
surrender for granted, which 
we're going to be seeing here 

605
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,440
throughout the rest of this 
episode. 

606
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,160
So when the Hightowers didn't go
hard for the gardeners, why 

607
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,760
would Aegon expect them to go 
hard for him? 

608
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,880
So he knows what he has. 
He was like, OK, I can count on 

609
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,520
them to run this city. 
I can count on them to send me 

610
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,440
taxes. 
But if it comes down to a big 

611
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,280
war, I don't think I can count 
on them. 

612
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:32,320
And he'd be right about that. 
And the the loyalty of Old Town 

613
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240
is going to become an ongoing 
back and forth, not just for 

614
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,400
Aegon. 
It's not really going to be a 

615
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,120
problem for Aegon, but for 
future Targaryen kings. 

616
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
There's going to be a lot of 
work put in to make sure Old 

617
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:48,200
Town is in the fold and then 
eventually where it'll be too 

618
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,600
much in the fold when they marry
into House Targaryen, but that's

619
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,640
quite a ways away still, that 
ball started rolling when it 

620
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,120
when Old Town surrendered 
without a fight. 

621
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,880
I think the positioning itself 
as a as a as a piece of power 

622
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,400
that you can't quite grab onto. 
If you grab it too tightly, it 

623
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,320
will be gone. 
If you don't hold on to it 

624
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,440
tightly, it may go to some, it 
may help somebody else or help 

625
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,960
on your enemies. 
And I think marrying into them 

626
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,800
was holding it too tightly, 
quite hard, quite possibly. 

627
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,760
Still, he was ultimately pleased
that I think that he didn't have

628
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
to destroy them or do any severe
damage or unleash Valerian. 

629
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,000
It's a best case scenario. 
For the most part. 

630
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,200
The highest up in taking his 
side, effectively taking his 

631
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,400
side, was a massive windfall. 
Here's how it went after that 

632
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,120
quote. 
Three days later, in the starry 

633
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,000
Sept, His High Holiness himself 
anointed Aegon with the seven 

634
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,560
oils, placed a crown upon his 
head, and proclaimed him Aegon 

635
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,320
of House Targaryen, the first of
his name, King of the Andals, 

636
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,080
the Roinar and the First Men, 
Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and 

637
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,360
Protector of the Realm. 7 
Kingdoms was the style used. 

638
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,240
The Dorn had not submitted, nor 
would it for more than a century

639
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,280
to come. 
Only a handful of Lords had been

640
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,080
present for Aegon's first 
coronation at the mouth of the 

641
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:19,200
Blackwater, but hundreds were on
hand to witness his 2nd and 10s 

642
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,200
of thousands cheered him 
afterward in the streets of Old 

643
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Town. 
As he rode through the city on 

644
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,200
Valerians back. 
This is the same group of Lords 

645
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,560
that had followed him to 
confront King Torin. 

646
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,640
The ones that had submitted 
after the Field of Fire, with a 

647
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,920
few River Lords mixed in from 
prior to that, and then a few 

648
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,200
other Reach Lords who probably 
weren't on the Field of Fire who

649
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,400
decided it was finally time to 
submit. 

650
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,960
Better now than later. 
The longer they waited, the 

651
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,360
worse it would get. 
But picture Valerian going 

652
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,960
through the streets. 
We've got art of this. 

653
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,960
It's pretty incredible. 
Wowing the crowds And as it 

654
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,760
says, the crowds would be 
enormous. 

655
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,120
Hundreds of people at the 
coronation itself and then 

656
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,280
thousands, 10s of thousands 
afterwards. 

657
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,920
And this picture it, it's the 
spectacle, the spectacle, the 

658
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,720
spectacle of a dragon is worth 
it alone. 

659
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,480
Like if I lived in that world 
and there's a chance to see 

660
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Valerian, I would totally go do 
it. 

661
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,360
You know, it's just a just a 
parade scenario. 

662
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,840
Obviously. 
I wouldn't go to the field of 

663
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,720
fire. 
I wouldn't go to the 

664
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,840
battlefield. 
But if I knew it was just, you 

665
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,600
know, hanging out, Of course I 
would go. 

666
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,640
And I think most of you would 
too. 

667
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,760
You'd want to see what that 
thing looks like, and you would 

668
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,600
see that the rumors were real. 
It wasn't exaggerated. 

669
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,080
And the holy crap, that dragon 
really is as big as they say. 

670
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,760
I can understand what people 
bent the knee. 

671
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,800
I can understand how the field 
of fire was so one sided. 

672
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,680
I can understand why Heron Hall 
was burnt. 

673
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,440
And all these people will 
remember it. 

674
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,200
And it's not just the dragon, 
the sighting of the dragon. 

675
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,240
It's a momentous day in the 
history of Westeros. 

676
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,600
The biggest? 
Like governmental shift, the 

677
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,680
biggest cultural shift since 
like the Pact or the Long Night 

678
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,400
in a single day. 
I mean the end Alls was a big 

679
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,960
different, big thing, but that 
was a very gradual thing. 

680
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,000
You know the end Alls coming was
a more than 1000 years of waves 

681
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,560
and slow change. 
Whereas this is a single day or 

682
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,800
a few days or however you want 
to frame it it, it doesn't 

683
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,040
really compare to a gradual 
migration. 

684
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,320
So I think I frame it more like 
that, like the Pact or the Long 

685
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,199
Night. 
Something like that. 

686
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:18,760
So what? 
What were the, what was the 

687
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,440
average? 
What was like the common view of

688
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,760
this? 
Like, were people fleeing the 

689
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,800
city in advance of Aegon's 
arrival or were they were they 

690
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:28,679
worried? 
What were the rumor? 

691
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,360
What was the rumor mill like? 
I think eventually people 

692
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,960
figured out that, oh, that he's 
not coming to attack and that's 

693
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,880
why the crowds were so big. 
So clearly people weren't that 

694
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,880
scared. 
But I but I I feel like for a 

695
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,199
while before people knew there 
was going to be a surrender. 

696
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:40,960
Maybe. 
I don't know if the common folk 

697
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,920
knew that Manfred and the High 
Septon were planning on opening 

698
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,639
the doors because, and we can 
say that because they were. 

699
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,239
Were probably waiting to make 
sure what happened. 

700
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,199
They again, they hadn't fully 
committed to surrender or else 

701
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:55,080
they would have told him ahead 
of time. 

702
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:01,000
So there would have been quite a
lot of consternation or like 

703
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,240
what's going to happen? 
Is he going to come and destroy 

704
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,800
us. 
Like he destroyed Harrenhal once

705
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,320
the fear passed and then the 
people saw OK, well he's not 

706
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,240
doing that and the coronation 
happens then. 

707
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:14,480
I think that enables so many 
people to show up and watch him 

708
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,120
in the streets and then. 
Talk about that for literally 

709
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,000
generations, people who saw 
Valerian that day, they were 

710
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000
there for the coronation for one
of the biggest days in the 

711
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,440
history of Westeros. 
Whether they were in that room 

712
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,480
when she, he was crowned or just
saw him on the streets 

713
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,240
afterwards. 
That's something you tell your 

714
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,880
kids, your kids tell those kids,
tell their kids they were there 

715
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,600
for that. 
I mean, it would be like being 

716
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,160
there for, I don't know, like 
the US is just roughly. 

717
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:43,160
Similar age to the the the Iron 
Thrones age. 

718
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,160
It's a little younger, but if 
you were there for the 

719
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:50,960
Declaration of Independence OR 
during the the Revolutionary War

720
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,680
and lived through that, that 
would be pretty huge. 

721
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,680
Your family would be proud of 
having had a. 

722
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,000
A representative there during 
that time or whatever. 

723
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,400
If you're not from America, 
obviously you can have a 

724
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,840
probably a similar event you can
imagine in your country's 

725
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,120
history that's similarly 
momentous. 

726
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,880
It's not as fantastic, but you 
know, George Washington being 

727
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,640
coordinated as the first 
president, you know. 

728
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,320
Yeah, yeah. 
It's very similar. 

729
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,600
Like you were establishing a new
system like he's the 1st 

730
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,920
president of the You know, like 
it's. 

731
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,520
It's not as powerful as a king, 
but it's the first of a new 

732
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,600
system of government, the first 
to sit the Iron Throne, the 

733
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,120
first to rule the entire 
country. 

734
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,600
That's that's a huge deal. 
Yeah. 

735
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Well, not the entire country, 
but most of it. 

736
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,840
Most of it still a new political
designation, a new level of 

737
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,280
authority that hadn't existed 
before. 

738
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,320
It's it's very significant. 
And that makes it memorable and 

739
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,680
important to be a part of. 
Even if you're just in the 

740
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,480
crowd, you know. 
Just even if you're in the crowd

741
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,640
for game seven of memorable 
sports series like, that's. 

742
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,240
You tell your kids about that, 
probably, if they gave a crap 

743
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,160
about that sport. 
But, you know, like just being, 

744
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,000
just being there, being 
witnessed really does mean 

745
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,720
something, right? 
It's it's I was there. 

746
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:56,280
I saw it. 
Yeah. 

747
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,280
You know, I think if one we 
would probably tell folks, I I 

748
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,280
guess it's you know. 
We were there when George read 

749
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,120
Forsaken. 
That's a good one for us. 

750
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,400
Yeah. 
Yeah, we don't have. 

751
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,120
Our game Seven of the sports. 
That was our game seven. 

752
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,440
Yeah, the Forsaken chapter. 
I don't even know if you say 

753
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,000
game seven. 
I'm like, I don't know what 

754
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,160
sport you're talking about. 
Lots of sports. 

755
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,480
Not football, not soccer. 
But yeah, basketball. 

756
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,760
Hockey. 
Or we went to the premiere of 

757
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,320
House of the Dragon at George's 
Theater, too. 

758
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,520
That's that's not quite as cool 
as the Forsaken chapter, but. 

759
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,000
Yeah, I don't think, I I don't 
know that that would necessarily

760
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,520
be told to children. 
But I would tell them the other 

761
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:34,920
ones. 
Yeah, you're right. 

762
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,000
We also don't have any children 
to tell them to, but. 

763
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,080
I told the cats. 
We told, yeah, we told our cats,

764
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,360
yes, they're very proud of us. 
Yeah, And you mentioned Sean, is

765
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,520
this, if someone had wanted to 
like, assassinate Aegon, there 

766
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,360
were chances. 
There were not just here, but 

767
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,440
there were chances. 
Yeah, it's this and and other 

768
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,520
chances for the other Queens, 
too. 

769
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,840
Yeah. 
Being spreading through the 

770
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,080
streets like this, I wonder what
kind of security there was. 

771
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,720
How confident was Aegon, you 
know how many how big were the 

772
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,000
crowds? 
You know that that art we 

773
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,680
showed, you know one person, 
that crowd with a crossbow, one 

774
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,360
guard who didn't like this new 
thing, right. 

775
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,360
But I can also imagine everyone 
being in such all like, you 

776
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,280
know, I I went through a little 
bit of like what if it did? 

777
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,200
What if someone did you know 
some some militant some faith of

778
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,760
the seven, some person who is 
still loyal to whatever took it 

779
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,120
on themselves. 
You know, without even any kind 

780
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,960
of organization or or or some 
plotting that might also could 

781
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,840
have happened. 
But it's just one person decided

782
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,320
I'm going to be the one to kill.
The Dragon Lord shot him with a 

783
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,280
crossbow. 
What happens? 

784
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,360
Valerian unleashed to fire? 
Does Vicinia come in? 

785
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:47,520
From the grassy Knoll they. 
Wouldn't do it. 

786
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,520
See, that's why I know from 
grassy Knoll. 

787
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,280
That's hilarious. 
But no, that's why I think they 

788
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,320
wouldn't do it. 
Sean, is that if you shoot 

789
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,440
Valerian 1, even if you? 
Managed to kill him. 

790
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,160
He probably unleashes fire and 
devastation to everyone around 

791
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,080
you. 
And if you're doing this, you're

792
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,480
probably doing it because you're
trying to stop. 

793
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,120
Also, maybe it's not that easy 
to get a crossbow or be a good 

794
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,680
shot or. 
You might have had, yeah, you 

795
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,920
might have had Manford Hightower
or the High Step that are both 

796
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,680
and or the Warrior Sun just. 
Very wary of exactly such a 

797
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,760
thing happening and being 
watchful for it. 

798
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,560
They might be like, yeah, we 
can't allow one of one of the 

799
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,440
zealots to just like, take a 
shot at Aegon. 

800
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,480
They probably won't even hit 
him. 

801
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,520
But what will he do to our city 
if if he blames that on us? 

802
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,080
What if he, like, finds a reason
to put put that on us? 

803
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,520
They're very they obviously were
taking a lot of caution to avoid

804
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,400
the destruction of their cities.
They couldn't necessarily stop 

805
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,920
all the crazies, but they might 
be aware of it and that would 

806
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,800
help, you know, for what it's 
worth. 

807
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:48,080
And you know, relatively modern 
times took a lot of presidents 

808
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,280
before someone killed John F 
Kennedy, you know what I mean? 

809
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,560
Lots of presidents were paraded 
through the streets and any 

810
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,720
person with a gun could have 
just walked up and shot him. 

811
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:56,960
And finally someone did. 
Same to Abraham Lincoln. 

812
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,920
I guess even after Abraham 
Lincoln, they they didn't stop 

813
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:01,760
going out in public after that, 
you know, so. 

814
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,400
Ronald Reagan got shot, Yeah, 
there. 

815
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,120
There's been a lot of presidents
that have been shot. 

816
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Yeah. 
And yeah, and a crossbow. 

817
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,840
It's hard to kill someone with a
crossbow. 

818
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,800
I mean, Aegon was probably 
wearing his armor while walking,

819
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,160
going through the crowds, you 
know, So yeah, you got to have a

820
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,240
really good shot. 
Yeah. 

821
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,520
Anyway, so it's it's a lot to 
consider there. 

822
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,360
And in terms of number of eyes 
on it, we talked about how 

823
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,600
important it was for all those 
Northerners. 

824
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,800
We talked about why, maybe why 
Torin brought so many of his 

825
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,280
armies. 
So they would be witnesses. 

826
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,160
Either they would be there to 
help him fight or they would 

827
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,280
serve as witnesses afterwards. 
Either way, it worked. 

828
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,360
It's it's a good thing for him. 
But consider how many witnesses 

829
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,640
this would be compared to that. 
Way more, way, way, way, way, 

830
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,400
way more 'cause you got the 
armies there too. 

831
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,360
They've already seen it. 
But now you've got this entire 

832
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,720
population of Old Town, plus all
the people that came from the 

833
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,320
outskirts of the city, who just 
for the spectacle to see the 

834
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,280
coronation, the extra Lords who 
weren't there before and all the

835
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,160
people they brought with them. 
So many witnesses. 

836
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,360
I don't think there's this is 
maybe one of the largest crowds 

837
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,880
that's ever gathered in the 
entire history of Westeros. 

838
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,160
You know, not just that, but a 
crowd this size gathered at, I 

839
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,600
don't know, Winterfell or 
something. 

840
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,960
Word won't spread as far and as 
fast. 

841
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:09,720
Old Town is a Center for 
commerce and education and et 

842
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,880
cetera, et cetera. 
So there's just more people that

843
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,320
live around there. 
In general, yeah, more people 

844
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,000
means more stories, more 
travelling. 

845
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040
Like everyone in the Citadel saw
this and now teaches everyone 

846
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,400
else who comes from the through 
the Citadel from now on. 

847
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,240
And those people go out to other
places to spread their spread 

848
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:26,320
their knowledge and all the 
merchants and everything. 

849
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,080
So yeah, that's a fantastic 
point. 

850
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:32,200
The the, the most capable 
historians would be there to 

851
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:33,800
record the moment. 
Like lots of them. 

852
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,040
There's probably more accounts 
of this in the Citadel than 

853
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,320
there are a lot of other things 
that wouldn't have taken place 

854
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,320
right in front of them. 
Capable and connected? 

855
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,920
Yeah, yeah, same thing with this
step to everyone when it comes 

856
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,520
to this step to train or to 
worship and goes back to their 

857
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,240
homes and other lands. 
Brings this story with him. 

858
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,680
Yes, yes, that's. 
And Eglin was probably aware of 

859
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,080
that. 
Or if he wasn't, people would 

860
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,480
have made him aware of that. 
I was like, hey, hey King, look 

861
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,240
at the power of spreading word 
here. 

862
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,600
And so this is when. 
Speaking of this is when 

863
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,040
conversations of of a new 
capital started to come up. 

864
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,600
Now, Aegon had already decided, 
it seems like very likely he had

865
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,000
already decided on King's 
Landing, and for multiple 

866
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,440
reasons, the biggest of which he
was already collecting swords 

867
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,600
for his throne. 
I don't. 

868
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,960
He wasn't going to build his 
throne somewhere other than his 

869
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,760
capital, right? 
That doesn't make any sense. 

870
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,400
He's like, Oh yeah, my capital's
here, but my throne is hundreds 

871
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,480
of miles away. 
No, of course not. 

872
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,200
The Capitol and the throne are 
going to be in the same spot. 

873
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,480
So the fact that he's been 
sending swords to this place all

874
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,920
along ever since the first 
battle meant that he had already

875
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,200
decided he just hadn't told 
people or hadn't told many 

876
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,400
people or word wasn't out. 
You know, it wasn't important 

877
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,040
for him to spread that word. 
And he may have had a reason for

878
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,120
that. 
He may not have wanted people to

879
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,320
know. 
He may have wanted them to court

880
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,000
their city and do things for 
him. 

881
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,000
And I mean he may have liked 
that process that may have been 

882
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,640
value to him for that because 
that in doing so they may have 

883
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,120
given him a good accounting of 
all the features of the city. 

884
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,200
So that it could be you know 
like a presentation like a like 

885
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,880
a a PowerPoint presentation on 
all why Old Town should be the 

886
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,160
capitals. 
Like I want them to make this 

887
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,320
presentation so that they tell 
me everything there is to know. 

888
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,320
Even though I have no intention 
of choosing it. 

889
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,760
I still want to know everything 
about the city. 

890
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,160
Things that they might have 
otherwise kept from me, factors 

891
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,880
and tax revenues and things like
that they might have kept 

892
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,760
hidden. 
If I Defensive capability. 

893
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,280
Yeah. 
Defensive capability. 

894
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,120
Sure. 
Sure. 

895
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,560
Number of troops discount. 
Yeah. 

896
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,920
How many Spears and bows and 
things you have. 

897
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,320
Those like those things might 
have been told anyway. 

898
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,720
But if they're it's different 
from then he's forcing you to 

899
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:34,520
tell versus You're in a position
where you're pitching it to him,

900
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,640
so you're more likely to 
exaggerate than hold back in in 

901
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,480
one in one scenario versus the 
other. 

902
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,840
These are the kind of power 
games that Aegon would, would 

903
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,360
maybe and probably be aware of. 
It's like, well, it's all about 

904
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,760
how you frame it. 
If I present myself, are you 

905
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,000
selling this to me or am I 
demanding it of you? 

906
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,760
If you're selling it to me, then
I'm going to get a different 

907
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,960
kind of answer than if I'm 
demanding it from you. 

908
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,840
So he knew all along that King's
Landing was going to be the 

909
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,040
site. 
Now what we can only guess at is

910
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,840
why he waited. 
And I just gave you one possible

911
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,760
reason, but that's just a pure 
guesswork. 

912
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,480
And the other would be, well, 
what was he? 

913
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,120
What were they doing to guess at
this and why did he wait for 

914
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,920
now? 
And what did? 

915
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,720
What were people's reactions to 
him declaring King's Landing? 

916
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:22,760
Were there immediate like 
investment in the new city? 

917
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,240
Where like the high towers and 
the Lannisters immediately the 

918
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:32,360
Rick rushing to invest in shops 
and build houses and mansions 

919
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,560
there or there's there would be 
business opportunities like 

920
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:35,720
crazy. 
And this is the kind of thing 

921
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,120
that George doesn't write about 
a lot. 

922
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:41,000
But it had to have been 
happening and it would be real 

923
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,520
interesting like a a big new 
city being built in a really 

924
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,200
important location right next to
the new capital where all sorts 

925
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,600
of trade and opportunities 
clearly going to be happening. 

926
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,440
How did the realm react to this?
Who got their finger into that 

927
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,600
pie? 
Who ignored it? 

928
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,640
Who missed the opportunity? 
I mean we don't hear today about

929
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,680
like the Lannisters having like 
big amounts of property in 

930
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:04,920
King's Landing or the High 
Tower. 

931
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:09,440
So quite possibly they were not 
allowed to do much or they were 

932
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,160
they didn't take the opportunity
or I don't know, but this is a 

933
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,920
kind of a more than a Gray area.
It's a dark Gray area. 

934
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,200
I really I really have very 
little idea but it but it had to

935
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:21,360
be happening. 
This is the kind of things that 

936
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,920
happened, whether we, whether 
it's written about or not, 

937
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,960
economic development, rich 
people trying to get richer, you

938
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,200
know that's that's always 
happening 24/7, the way the 

939
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,840
world works, even when it's a 
fantasy world. 

940
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,880
So the second real coronation, 
if we go back to that briefly, 

941
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,040
it's the change in how the dates
are reckoned. 

942
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,280
So whenever we look at dates for
a while there before fire and 

943
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,040
blood and and before the world 
of ice and fire, there was a 

944
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,280
little discrepancy. 
Not a discrepancy, but a 

945
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,720
confusion as to wait. 
Did the conquest start when the 

946
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:55,280
conquest started or when it 
ended? 

947
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,040
Like when do you start 'cause 
that's like a more like a year. 

948
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,560
When when is year one start? 
When everyone bent the knee the 

949
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,240
first time, The second time or 
so? 

950
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:06,800
Yes, the second time is the 
answer. 

951
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,120
This is when the reign begins 
officially. 

952
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,800
Like the calendar is marked from
this point, so that makes it 

953
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,720
more official than the first 
kneeling. 

954
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,400
And that makes more sense too. 
It's the the High Septon and the

955
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,200
gods and way more all the Lords.
Whereas before it was just his 

956
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,080
own people, hardly anyone 
witnessed. 

957
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,120
So it makes sense to to have a 
big show, a big make a big 

958
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,680
spectacle of it all. 
And let's look at what he called

959
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,440
himself, right? 
King of Westeros. 

960
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,560
Not just that, he was king of 
the Andals, the Roinar and the 

961
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,640
First Men. 
OK, so he had pretty much 

962
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,120
subjugated the Andals and the 
First Men mostly, but he hadn't.

963
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,800
AI don't know that a single 
Roinar had bent the knee at this

964
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,880
point. 
They all lived in Dorne, other 

965
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,760
than a few random people that 
you know live elsewhere. 

966
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,160
But so maybe a few technically 
had Dentony, but very few. 

967
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,360
Certainly not any large group. 
That's a very important 

968
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,560
distinction he was claiming. 
This is where I'm talking about 

969
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,400
the overconfidence and maybe 
even a little arrogance. 

970
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,080
He's claiming dominion over 
people he had not only not 

971
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,640
conquered, he hadn't even, like 
had FaceTime with or diplomacy 

972
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,800
with. 
Yet he's called himself Lord of 

973
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,680
the Iron Isles and of the three 
Sisters, and of Dorn, who 

974
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,960
haven't bent the knee at all. 
And Rainey's was sent to go talk

975
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,000
to them, but it's unclear 
whether she had actually had a 

976
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,600
meeting with anyone yet by this 
point. 

977
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,320
So Aegon may have been calling 
himself King of Dorn or Lord of 

978
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,880
the Roinar and all these 
different titles without a 

979
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:40,000
single Dornish representative 
having said a word about it yet,

980
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,840
which is like, yeah, that's 
you're trying not to insult 

981
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,360
people. 
That's pretty insulting. 

982
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,920
He's like, yeah, I'm, I'm your 
king now and I haven't even set 

983
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,280
foot in your. 
Country in his defense. 

984
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,400
He didn't know that they weren't
bending the knee either, right? 

985
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,080
It's not like he knew they were 
standing up to him and he was 

986
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,320
disregarding it. 
And I mean, we just talked about

987
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,040
he showed up at Old Town and 
their doors were open. 

988
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Like he the precedent was 
established. 

989
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,000
He won battle after battle. 
He proved his point. 

990
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,960
How can anyone beat me? 
The fact that it's so hard to 

991
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,360
beat me means people are 
preemptively surrendering. 

992
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,280
It's a reason why, you know, if 
you're winning the Super Bowl 47

993
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,360
to 12 or whatever, and the 
reporter comes up in a sideline 

994
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,920
and there's still 7 minutes in 
the game, but you're like, yeah,

995
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,840
we won the Super Bowl. 
You know, it's 47 to 12. 

996
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,440
It's a reasonable thing to 
think, you know, like Shorty 70,

997
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:29,520
it could come. 
Back, I guess. 

998
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,400
But yeah, any of these things 
can happen. 

999
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,400
But it's reasonable for him to 
not expect the crazy thing, you 

1000
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,160
know? 
Yeah. 

1001
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,000
So the point is, though, maybe 
it wasn't crazy. 

1002
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,160
Maybe it shouldn't. 
Maybe it's not crazy for Dorn to

1003
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,280
give up or or to not submit. 
I'm not sure that it's 

1004
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,280
debatable. 
In hindsight, it seems to be the

1005
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,680
case. 
Yeah, 'cause clearly they 

1006
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,000
didn't. 
He didn't beat them. 

1007
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,720
They didn't. 
They're not going to submit for 

1008
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,680
190 more years and it won't be 
due to violence. 

1009
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,920
So he clearly miscalculated 
there. 

1010
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,040
Even if it wasn't crazy, he was.
He was wrong. 

1011
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,960
He was, either. 
He was wrong, maybe not crazy. 

1012
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,080
So there is also a little more 
to be said about it too. 

1013
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,200
Like one of the other titles 
he's taken is the shield of his 

1014
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,600
people, protector of the realm. 
Well, there's still fighting 

1015
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,800
going on, and there's still 
places where that are in chaos 

1016
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,720
that he's not going to address 
for quite a while. 

1017
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,600
It's like you call yourself 
protector of the realm. 

1018
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,200
While the realm is tearing, A 
portion of the realm is tearing 

1019
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,080
itself apart, and you're not 
lifting a finger to do anything 

1020
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:35,280
about it for a while. 
To be fair, again, he's got a 

1021
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,800
lot to do. 
He can't, you know, he can't be 

1022
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,680
everywhere at once. 
So yeah, it's, you know, making 

1023
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,280
apologies for a conqueror is a 
weird position to be in. 

1024
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,640
But that's sequesterosis did 
become a better place to live 

1025
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,360
after. 
So I think, I think it seems 

1026
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,680
that way. 
So it's also like, well, yeah, 

1027
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,320
it's not simple. 
The moral, the morality here is,

1028
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,320
is it's hard to put real world 
morality into it because it is, 

1029
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,200
even if it is, even if you think
of it as a real world, values 

1030
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,600
and technology and history is 
also different. 

1031
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,760
Also, screw that portion of the 
realm. 

1032
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,680
I hate sand. 
Well, no. 

1033
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,840
I meant the Iron Islands. 
I hate salt. 

1034
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:20,120
I hate the concept of salt 
wives. 

1035
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,120
How about that? 
OK, Yeah, that's good. 

1036
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,960
That's good. 
So let's talk about the unbowed.

1037
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,120
Here's a very brief quote to 
describe what we mean. 

1038
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,000
Though the Wars of Conquest were
said to have ended when Aegon 

1039
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,560
was crowned and anointed by. 
The High Septon and the Starry 

1040
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,200
Sept of Old Town. 
Not all of Westeros had yet 

1041
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,440
submitted to his rule, so Aegon 
had work to do. 

1042
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,760
Still, despite so many 
acclaiming him as their king, 

1043
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,720
despite all those witnesses 
spreading the word, which he 

1044
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,240
presumably logically expected to
solidify his rule even more. 

1045
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,880
It wasn't enough. 
There were holdouts, like very 

1046
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,120
few of the people who Bentany at
Old Town went to Dorne to tell 

1047
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,120
the story. 
Very few witnesses or the OR if 

1048
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,120
they did it didn't move them 
over much and there would be 

1049
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,360
microcosms of this story. 
We've talked about it a few 

1050
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,680
times with regard to the Starks,
but there would have to be other

1051
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,920
versions of this on a smaller 
scale in the other regions too. 

1052
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,360
There would be maybe a few in 
the Veil that or in the West or 

1053
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:20,120
maybe even in the Storm Lands 
who were like, I am hesitant to 

1054
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,200
accept this new order of things.
It's been this way for so long 

1055
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,160
and they're not necessarily up 
in arms, but they they're 

1056
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,520
holding out. 
They're stubborn. 

1057
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,360
They're refusing to do a few 
things, and there would be, 

1058
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,200
there would need to be FaceTime 
between some of these former 

1059
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:41,840
kings, and they're still vassals
who are no longer subject to a 

1060
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,640
king but to a high Lord. 
And a lot of these little things

1061
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,280
would have to take place. 
And this is the kind of thing 

1062
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,240
I'm thinking of when I'm 
thinking Aegon can't just rush 

1063
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:50,840
off to Dorne or the Iron 
Islands. 

1064
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,600
There's maybe some of these 
smaller scale things that don't 

1065
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,480
make the history books because 
it never came to blood. 

1066
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,200
The negotiations were tedious, 
but they did end up working out.

1067
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,920
So like it's not very 
historical, but it's something 

1068
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,040
that we can definitely read 
between the lines as likely 

1069
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,840
happened. 
And I like to point these things

1070
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,440
out because, well, it's 
realistic. 

1071
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,560
We're trying to fill out the 
world as much as possible, 

1072
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,440
trying to make it feel realistic
and breathable and breathing and

1073
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,800
and well, if you like 
role-playing campaigns, things 

1074
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,200
like that. 
You try to just over turn over 

1075
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,240
every stone, look under every, 
look behind every door and see 

1076
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,720
you know what would be there and
what realistic elements would 

1077
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,080
take place. 
What are things that humans 

1078
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,000
would do no matter what, You 
know what are some stimuli that 

1079
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,120
we can reliably predict would be
the responses for. 

1080
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,560
So yes, the three sisters, the 
Iron Islands and Dorne were the 

1081
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,040
three big holdouts, but I'd like
to guess that there were some 

1082
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,160
more smaller scale ones. 
So two groups of islands, right,

1083
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:51,480
and the farthest Kingdom to the 
South. 

1084
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,440
And I think that's important 
because this geography plays a 

1085
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,040
role here in both. 
They're more unique, they're 

1086
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:58,800
most cult, they're more 
culturally distinct. 

1087
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,680
Some of them have different, 
well, one of them has a 

1088
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,400
different religion and Doran is 
culturally different. 

1089
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,640
They treat women differently. 
They treat, they have. 

1090
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:12,320
There's different racial groups,
Yeah, besides the geography and 

1091
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,480
the separation of things like 
mountains and deserts that 

1092
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,000
enforce certain cultural 
differences and keep people from

1093
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:23,400
meeting and and talking and and 
growing more similar over time. 

1094
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:26,280
The Three Sisters sort of had a 
different religion too, right? 

1095
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,640
Weren't they at least sort of 
worshipping the Old Gods? 

1096
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,560
I mean, no, not really. 
I mean yes and no. 

1097
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,400
Like they have their older gods 
that are different than any 

1098
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,040
other old gods. 
They worship the Lord of the 

1099
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,000
Waves and the Lord of the skies 
which is sort of like the ground

1100
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,920
God and the Storm God and a lot 
of the there's similarities 

1101
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,640
between those but that but that 
religion is gone whereas not 

1102
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:49,160
well, almost gone. 
Whereas the Iron Islands clearly

1103
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,680
still worship the Drowned God 
and and fear the Storm God. 

1104
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,160
So they're they're mostly 
worshippers of the seven there. 

1105
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,120
They have knighthood and and all
that stuff. 

1106
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,000
They're they're mostly they're 
similar to the Vale than that 

1107
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,080
cause the Vale is what's ruled 
them for most of that time but 

1108
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,320
they do have more north in them 
than anywhere else in the Vale. 

1109
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,640
I would guess, 'cause just not 
just because of proximity, but 

1110
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,920
because of that cultural 
separation, that distinct 

1111
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,000
microcosm that they are and just
frequent trade. 

1112
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,120
And with the North and people, 
Northerners probably lived there

1113
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:17,800
too, at some, at some point off 
and on. 

1114
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,800
So that's important to note. 
The actual distinct differences,

1115
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,760
cultural significance, this and 
that here and there, all that. 

1116
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,000
Yeah, there's a lot of 
differences, and those things 

1117
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,920
mean a lot. 
Like, that's the because think 

1118
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,000
of it this way, If a king comes 
in and demands you surrender, 

1119
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,760
and he has all the same values 
as you, it's a lot easier to 

1120
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,200
bend the knee, especially when 
he's also stronger than you. 

1121
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,600
But that's not the case for the 
Iron Islands, right? 

1122
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,520
He doesn't have your values. 
He's in fact going to stop your 

1123
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,280
values. 
He's going to tell you no, you 

1124
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,120
can't live this way anymore. 
Whereas the rest of Westeros for

1125
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,680
the most part, gets to go on 
living the way they were before 

1126
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,400
this. 
The the King in the North is the

1127
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,360
High Lord in the North, but he's
he still gets to worship the 

1128
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,360
same gods, eats the same foods, 
does goes about his business the

1129
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:09,560
same way Ironborn are going to 
be told to change a lot about 

1130
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,160
how they live. 
It's a cultural upheaval as well

1131
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:18,080
as a authoritative upheaval. 
Finally, Finally. 

1132
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,840
Be clear, yeah. 
For Dorne it's similar. 

1133
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,840
It's not a religious upheaval. 
They worship the Seven, so 

1134
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,560
they're not being told to change
that. 

1135
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,920
But it is still a place that 
values their independence more. 

1136
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:36,800
Even under the Prince of Dorne, 
they're less beholden to their 

1137
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:45,520
own ruler than, say, the 
Hightowers were to the 

1138
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:46,560
Gardeners. 
Right? 

1139
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,880
There's just less. 
There already was less authority

1140
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,400
held by the Martels. 
They hadn't ruled for as long. 

1141
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,400
Doran wasn't united nearly as 
recently as the other regions, 

1142
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,520
so there wasn't a long history 
of, Oh well, we've always 

1143
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,680
followed the Martels. 
No, that only been the case for 

1144
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,200
hundreds of years, not 
thousands. 

1145
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,400
And there were some houses that 
kind of like how there are even 

1146
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,720
houses now that don't like the 
Tyrells being in charge. 

1147
00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:12,800
There are houses that in this 
time we're still kind of like. 

1148
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:15,440
I don't know about those 
Martells, you know, I don't 

1149
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,640
think they deserve to be on top,
especially people like the Iron 

1150
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:23,000
Woods and a few others who were 
similarly elite, amongst other 

1151
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,240
Dornish. 
They were also correct me if I'm

1152
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:28,400
wrong but. 
Smaller populations that are 

1153
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,680
more spread out. 
They're not as streamlined and 

1154
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,880
connected from city to city 
from, you know, it's not as 

1155
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,360
regimented A hierarchy leading 
up to the Martels. 

1156
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,760
The Martels probably barely know
or care what most of the people 

1157
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:43,800
in Dorn are doing. 
They're technically in charge, 

1158
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,720
but they don't have some Lord 
going out. 

1159
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,240
You know there's not as much 
interaction or connectivity 

1160
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:51,000
between them, right? 
Yes. 

1161
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,920
And that's probably kind of true
for the North too, more so than 

1162
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,680
the REACH, right? 
Yeah. 

1163
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,200
For example, Yeah, absolutely. 
That's a good point. 

1164
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:02,400
OK, let's take a little break 
here and we'll come back and 

1165
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,560
talk about the Iron Islands 1st 
and make our way over to Dorne. 

1166
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,000
We probably won't have time for 
the three sisters, but all these

1167
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:12,720
three of these situations begin 
now or have started a little 

1168
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:16,600
while ago and last into the 
reign of Aegon. 

1169
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,080
So none of these things are 
resolved quickly, especially 

1170
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,080
Dorne. 
So it will be continuing forward

1171
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:24,520
with these threads until they're
complete. 

1172
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:29,200
That said, after this episode we
are taking a fire and blood 

1173
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,240
break. 
Not a episode break, but we will

1174
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,080
return to fire and blood content
right at the end of the year, 

1175
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,120
right before the end of the 
year. 

1176
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,320
We're working on the schedule 
right now. 

1177
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,760
It's a little bit subject to 
change, but as of now, the week 

1178
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,400
before the end of the year is 
going to be when we get back to 

1179
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,120
fire and blood. 
Most likely in the meantime 

1180
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,360
we'll be putting out more of our
regular style episodes where 

1181
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,160
y'all vote on a selection topics
that we present and they can be 

1182
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,440
pretty much any topic from all 
over the fandom. 

1183
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,200
And it's and also we're going to
be doing an episode on catching 

1184
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,320
ourselves up on what's been 
going on with the TV shows. 

1185
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:08,400
Just just a kind of round up of 
what's been a while since we 

1186
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,240
talked about that and want to 
get ourselves caught up and stay

1187
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:12,760
up to date on that. 
All right. 

1188
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,880
I also want to bring up 
something that's just a little 

1189
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:21,080
outside of Game of Thrones. 
You know, it's hard to find good

1190
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,560
fantasy shows on TV. 
There are a lot of them, you 

1191
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,800
know, start off good and kind of
decline. 

1192
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,600
Not just fantasy shows, but a 
lot of TV shows go that way. 

1193
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,360
It's more common for a show to 
start off well and get worse 

1194
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,560
than the other way around. 
But it does happen, and 

1195
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,720
sometimes it goes both ways. 
Sometimes it improves and then 

1196
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,800
it goes back down. 
Who knows? 

1197
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,360
All shows are different. 
There is no one-size-fits-all 

1198
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,640
for the history of television 
quality, right? 

1199
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,760
One show that both falls into 
the fantasy bucket and also has 

1200
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:58,080
improved from its first season, 
which is a, as I said, a breath 

1201
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:59,320
of fresh air. 
It's kind of rare that that 

1202
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:00,320
happens. 
Just the Wheel of Time. 

1203
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,080
I'm a fan of the Wheel of Time 
series. 

1204
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,800
I've read the books and a long 
time ago, so long ago that when 

1205
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:07,760
watching the TV show I would 
kind of forgot some things. 

1206
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,520
Every once in a while I was 
surprised by things I should 

1207
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,640
have known, like Oh yeah, I knew
that I should have known that 

1208
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,000
from the book, but I had 
forgotten because it's been so 

1209
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,400
long. 
So I do recommend the Wheel of 

1210
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,200
Time TV show. 
You Can get it on Amazon Prime 

1211
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,920
and season 2 was way better than
season one. 

1212
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,600
It was a huge improvement. 
They focused more on characters,

1213
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:29,360
focused more on conflict, events
of the heart rather than well, 

1214
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,440
chasing things around and 
monsters and battles, which can 

1215
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,360
be fun, but it's not as fun as 
as character conflict and and 

1216
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,680
character driven stuff. 
To be fair, that's also a 

1217
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,040
reflection of the books. 
The first book was kind of like 

1218
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,200
that and the second book was 
just better. 

1219
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,240
So that makes sense. 
The TV show would be like that. 

1220
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:48,080
If you're one of those people 
that gave Wheel of Time a 

1221
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,400
chance, didn't really like it, 
give me, give it a second chance

1222
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,240
you can find again. 
Might be worth getting on Prime 

1223
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,640
if you don't have it. 
So you can sign up for Prime on 

1224
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,720
our website. 
And there's a lot of other 

1225
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,520
benefits to Prime as well 
besides that. 

1226
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,120
So let us know if you enjoyed 
Wheel of Time or if you come 

1227
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,560
back to it. 
You know, I like to. 

1228
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,400
Mention other good fantasy shows
that are out there, other good 

1229
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,760
fantasy books from time to time,
and since this one's currently 

1230
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,320
in the zeitgeist and we'll be 
back for at least one more 

1231
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,360
season, hopefully more. 
If the quality uptick continues,

1232
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,680
then it's a nice thing to have 
for your in your entertainment, 

1233
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,320
you know? 
The Wheel of Time just keeps on 

1234
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,080
turning. 
Wheel of the time keeps on 

1235
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,080
turning. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

1236
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,920
I can't remember if you said it,
but you can sign up for Prime, 

1237
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,080
like with the history of 
Westeros discount, right? 

1238
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,960
Is that the Well the there's not
a Prime discount but you get all

1239
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,520
these extra benefits one of 
which is this and you we would 

1240
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,720
get you know we do get a cut of 
anyone any sign up of course but

1241
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,960
also you can use your you also 
get a one free Twitch 

1242
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,200
subscription which some of y'all
could use to watch our twitch 

1243
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,920
streams and and subscribe there 
because we do our Crusader Kings

1244
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,360
for a Song of Ice and Fire 
stream almost every Friday at 

1245
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,760
6:00 PM. 
So shout out to that as well. 

1246
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,680
Yeah, good stuff. 
Yeah, I'm it's very 

1247
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,480
disappointing seeing the the 
from like 5-6 years ago. 

1248
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,680
We had a golden Age of Fantasy 
TV almost and already it's feels

1249
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:21,240
like that was much longer ago. 
You know, with Game of Thrones 

1250
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,480
season 8 being a downer for a 
lot of us and some of these 

1251
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,080
other shows have come out since 
like The Witcher started off 

1252
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,640
great and it really super, super
disappointed in that how that 

1253
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,720
went and yeah. 
Mixed emotions around the Rings 

1254
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,880
of Power. 
I wouldn't call that too mixed. 

1255
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,520
It was pretty bad. 
But but I still watched it. 

1256
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,040
I still watched it. 
I watched it as soon as it came 

1257
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,720
out every week. 
So I can't say that I didn't 

1258
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,320
enjoy it, but I was like a lot 
of times I was like crinkling my

1259
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,240
face. 
Like what? 

1260
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,360
What? 
I don't do that. 

1261
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,360
Don't. 
Don't take the plot in that 

1262
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,840
direction. 
If you want to crinkle your face

1263
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:54,920
too. 
That's also an Amazon show, 

1264
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:00,120
right? 
Amazon's got a lot of outside 

1265
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,600
fantasy is there's a lot of 
Amazon has a lot There's a lot 

1266
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,080
of great shows on here. 
Vikings. 

1267
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,320
And yeah we'll we'll we'll come 
back and mention a few others in

1268
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,840
future weeks because we've spent
enough time on it today. 

1269
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,080
But yeah, I like, I like to to 
mention what's good that's out 

1270
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:16,240
there, since it's our, it's in 
our wheelhouse, right? 

1271
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,280
Shout out to Kenny from the chat
for sending a super chat dancing

1272
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,680
sticker. 
Appreciate that Dancing. 

1273
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:22,560
Maybe that's for you, Sean. 
My kind of sticker. 

1274
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:23,960
Dancing sticker for dancing 
Sean. 

1275
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:29,440
Yeah, all right, back to the 
Iron Islands. 

1276
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,400
That's right. 
Let's talk about them. 

1277
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,040
This is, like I said, we're not 
going to cover the entire 

1278
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:35,760
scenario with the Iron Islands. 
This is just what's been 

1279
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,520
happening while Aegon's 
conquering elsewhere while after

1280
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,080
Heron's fall. 
Here's Theon's first chapter, 

1281
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,960
which of course is the Clash of 
Kings quote. 

1282
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,280
The Drowned God had made them to
reave and rape, to carve out 

1283
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,160
kingdoms and write their names 
in fire and blood and song. 

1284
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,760
Aegon the dragon had destroyed 
the old Way when he burned Black

1285
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,280
Heron gave Heron's Kingdom back 
to the weakling Rivermen and 

1286
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,440
reduced the Iron Islands to an 
insignificant backwater of much 

1287
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,160
Greater Rome. 
Yet the old red tails were still

1288
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:10,080
told around the driftwood fires 
and smoky hearths all across the

1289
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,400
islands, even behind the high 
stones of Pike. 

1290
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:16,280
Theon's father numbered among 
his titles the style of Lord 

1291
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,680
Reaper, and the Greyjoy Words 
boasted that we do not. 

1292
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:24,240
So it had been to bring back the
old way, more than for the empty

1293
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,080
vanity of a crown that Lord 
Balon had staged. 

1294
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,120
His great rebellion reduced, he 
says. 

1295
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:31,720
That's all it's like, reduce 
them to that. 

1296
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,840
They kind of already were that. 
But at the time, for most of 

1297
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:40,160
their history, it happened to be
a blip in history that they were

1298
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:43,360
perhaps the most powerful 
Kingdom at the time of Aegon's 

1299
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,320
conquest. 
But for most of their existence,

1300
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,600
they were not going back really 
far. 

1301
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,200
They were very significant 
because they were kind of 

1302
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,240
unstoppable. 
They attacked wherever they 

1303
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:54,920
wanted to and very few people 
could stop them. 

1304
01:03:54,920 --> 01:04:02,280
So they sort of did have their 
run of the western shores and no

1305
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:03,760
one could really do anything 
about it. 

1306
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,320
But that had fallen off long 
before what Theon is talking 

1307
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,840
about here. 
So they had kind of made a 

1308
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,120
resurgence and then fallen off 
again once they were beaten. 

1309
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:17,040
So like a lot of Ironborn, even 
ones who weren't fully raised on

1310
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:19,640
the Iron Islands, they have 
misconceptions about the 

1311
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:21,800
greatness of their own people. 
They they kind of lie to 

1312
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,200
themselves, kind of exaggerate 
their own glory to make 

1313
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:26,720
themselves feel better or to be 
proud. 

1314
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,120
I don't know why, but I mean 
people do that. 

1315
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,520
It's not strange to think of 
people pumping up their own 

1316
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,200
culture and and ignoring the bad
parts, which is pretty hard to 

1317
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:36,120
do with the Iron Born. 
To ignore the bad parts, you 

1318
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:37,720
pretty much have to. 
You pretty much have to look at 

1319
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,560
the bad parts as good parts. 
Yeah, I was going to say, you 

1320
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,760
just don't think those are bad. 
Yeah, you're they think that's 

1321
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:43,600
good. 
Yeah, so. 

1322
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,000
You don't think it's bad until 
someone else is doing it to you?

1323
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:51,000
Yeah, right. 
So they what's the problem here 

1324
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,280
is they they descended into 
chaos because they didn't have a

1325
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:54,840
leader anymore. 
Yes, like a lot of these 

1326
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,120
countries, right, they lost 
their leaders, but they got 

1327
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,600
appointed someone else to take 
over immediately or they took 

1328
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,000
over immediately. 
Like Oris Baratheon took over 

1329
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,880
the storm lines right away. 
The Tyrells were given control 

1330
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,960
of the Reach right away, like 
days after the field of Fire. 

1331
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,880
Immediately after Heron Hall was
burned, Edmund Tully was given 

1332
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,320
the Riverlands. 
Like that was like the same day 

1333
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,600
or the 24 hours later or 
something. 

1334
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,600
The Iron Isles though Heron 
taken out, all the sun's taken 

1335
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,800
out. 
I'll come back to that later. 

1336
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:32,120
So the Iron Isles is tearing 
itself apart while Aegon is 

1337
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,920
conquering the rest of the 
continent. 

1338
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,880
Busy with the field of fire. 
Busy with getting crowned and 

1339
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:38,680
Old Town. 
Busy declaring himself king of 

1340
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:43,200
places like the Iron Islands 
that he's not really being a 

1341
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:44,480
king of. 
Because how can you call 

1342
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,560
yourself protector of the realm 
when you're allowing the state 

1343
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,080
of affairs to happen. 
And he allowed it. 

1344
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:49,960
Allowed it to happen for quite a
while. 

1345
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,080
To be fair, he may have thought 
it would take a lot to stop and 

1346
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,760
that requires a lot of gathering
of military power and getting it

1347
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,120
all together and sailing it over
there and which is what happened

1348
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:01,720
eventually. 
But we're not covering that 

1349
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,040
today because it, like I said, 
took a while. 

1350
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,720
It wasn't. 
It wasn't even within a year. 

1351
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:07,680
You know, I mean there's another
angle I didn't think of till 

1352
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,160
just now. 
But when you said how can you 

1353
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,120
call yourself protector of the 
realm da da da da. 

1354
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,600
If he had say he had named 
someone to be in charge of the 

1355
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,880
Iron Islands and then that 
person took a Navy and attacked 

1356
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,680
the West or attacked. 
You see it now, it would be kind

1357
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,560
of under Aegon that this is 
happening. 

1358
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,680
Where is if he doesn't name 
someone and they war against 

1359
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:32,960
each other, they're not worrying
against someone else. 

1360
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,360
He's he's almost is protecting 
the realm by getting them to it.

1361
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:40,200
I totally agree he he might have
it might have been playing he 

1362
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,520
may I say he just let them be 
but that may have been 

1363
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:47,320
intentional you might be right. 
That might have been the part of

1364
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:48,640
plan. 
Like yeah, it's the best thing 

1365
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,560
to do is let them weaken 
themselves and then I'll come 

1366
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,520
in. 
Then we'll bring the heavy hand 

1367
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,680
down. 
Make them stop after they've 

1368
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,880
gone at it for a while. 
But if we attack them now they 

1369
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:01,640
may unite against the common 
foe. 

1370
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,280
Us the one that's trying to come
and take their religion away. 

1371
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,000
To take the old way away. 
That's you can you can picture 

1372
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:10,280
it like they're coming to take 
the old way away. 

1373
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,280
Well it's all united to stop 
that like that. 

1374
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,440
That is one of the few things 
that might get them to unite. 

1375
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,920
Is someone coming to take their 
their gods away or their their 

1376
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,520
way of life, which was true, He 
was going to come do that. 

1377
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:25,320
Or again, what I'm saying is, if
they were united, even if they 

1378
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:29,280
accepted Aegon as a ruler, they 
still under their union might 

1379
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,280
have gone after one of the other
Seven Kingdoms, right? 

1380
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,920
And now it's. 
So rather than Aegon stopping 

1381
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:36,920
them from fighting each other, 
Aegon's got to stop them from 

1382
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,040
fighting one of the other 
kingdoms that he's already got 

1383
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:40,880
on his side that's expecting 
this from. 

1384
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,240
Because you know what I mean. 
Like he they're distracted with 

1385
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,920
each other and not attacked in 
the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. 

1386
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,520
Which is his way of protecting 
the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. 

1387
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,960
Yeah. 
So Theon does have a point 

1388
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,000
though. 
So even though he didn't be 

1389
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,160
exaggerating and gets some of 
the details a little mixed up 

1390
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,800
and maybe his chronology is a 
little bit off, he's still 

1391
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,040
mostly right. 
Like it did it isn't. 

1392
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,920
Maybe blamed on Aegon. 
It's fine to do it if you want 

1393
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,240
to. 
I don't think it matters most of

1394
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,240
the regions under the Iron 
Throne. 

1395
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,320
Life improved there, but 
arguably the iron the Iron 

1396
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,520
Islands is. 
Is separate. 

1397
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,279
Is not under that. 
It depends on who you are. 

1398
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:20,240
I think like the fishermen of 
the Iron Islands who I, I, I 

1399
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:22,720
would care about them more 
anyway because they're, you 

1400
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:24,000
know, innocence for the most 
part. 

1401
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,720
Their lives may have gotten 
better. 

1402
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:29,960
I'm not sure. 
But it definitely got worse for 

1403
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:31,640
the the people who follow the 
old way. 

1404
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,640
Which good, you know, good for 
the. 

1405
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:36,439
It's good that they all get to 
do that. 

1406
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,160
Yeah. 
Nina writes that it's just the 

1407
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:40,560
problem with the Ironborn 
system. 

1408
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,399
It's incompatible with 
submitting to a king and being 

1409
01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:47,840
part of a greater realm. 
Their system is kill everyone 

1410
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,960
who's not us. 
Everyone else is our wheat. 

1411
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:55,040
We do not sow. 
We reap a harvest of humans. 

1412
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,279
We take your harvest. 
You do the work for us. 

1413
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,000
You can't have that doesn't. 
That's not compatible. 

1414
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:02,960
That's not a neighborly 
attitude. 

1415
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,960
It has to change for them to 
fit. 

1416
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:10,319
So yeah. 
So which is why it has to be 

1417
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:12,520
approached differently. 
Which is why it maybe has to be 

1418
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,240
approached with a little more 
caution and or with a lot more 

1419
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:21,560
strength to make sure whatever 
you force them to do, they've 

1420
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,960
got to be they have to do it 
like the force is strong enough 

1421
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:25,439
to compel them. 
Because you're talking about 

1422
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,160
zealots, not you're talking 
about brave warriors. 

1423
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:28,160
You're talking about zealots 
here. 

1424
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:32,000
The Drowned God is going to play
a role here, as we'll see. 

1425
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,120
And yeah, like, you can't just. 
That's an important distinction 

1426
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:36,960
too. 
When I'm talking about the 

1427
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,640
fishermen versus the reavers, 
Like the problem isn't the 

1428
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,520
ironborn necessarily, it's the 
old way. 

1429
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,880
The old way is the problem. 
Like the old way isn't in their 

1430
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:45,319
DNA. 
It isn't their cultural DNA 

1431
01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:46,840
because it's been around for so 
long, but it's not like 

1432
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:53,120
literally in their bodies. 
You know, Like that's a thing 

1433
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,600
that's like a a real world way 
that racism is throwing around 

1434
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,640
is people act like the behavior 
of a group is some sort of like 

1435
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,200
an inborn quality rather than a 
cultural behavior or a thing 

1436
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,720
that's taught or or an effect of
being downtrodden or spoiled or 

1437
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,080
anywhere in between. 
But a fantasy world gives us an 

1438
01:10:12,080 --> 01:10:14,040
exception, potential exception, 
the kind of thing that people 

1439
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,680
say in the real world when they 
want to, when they're being 

1440
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,160
ridiculous, but they actually 
believe it. 

1441
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,520
Like, in other words, like 
calling another race like the 

1442
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,560
devil or calling another culture
of the devil. 

1443
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:24,720
Like, no, they've got the devil 
in them. 

1444
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:26,400
Now here, this might actually be
true. 

1445
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:30,320
It's like in a fantasy world, 
that kind of racism actually 

1446
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,680
might fly because the Iron Born 
might actually have deep ones 

1447
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,640
DNA in them, right? 
So it's like, 'cause if that's 

1448
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,880
the true, then OK, fine, sink 
the whole islands. 

1449
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,560
Like, just get rid of them all. 
Just that's fine, OK, we have to

1450
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,640
There's no, there's no, there's 
no rehabilitating the old ones. 

1451
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:49,640
But. 
You know, there is a maybe an 

1452
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:53,280
argument too that is just. 
That it is a systemic thing, 

1453
01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:57,400
that since the Iron Islands have
limited resources, they don't 

1454
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,000
have the option of fields of 
wheat, right? 

1455
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:06,080
So possibly you could argue that
you know, attacking, pillaging 

1456
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:09,680
other areas is a natural thing 
to occur. 

1457
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,040
Still don't think it justifies 
it, but we just saw we've seen 

1458
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,120
it in the real world, right? 
Like this part of the reason the

1459
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,440
Vikings came down to England and
Europe or whatever. 

1460
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:19,400
They just. 
They didn't have enough food for

1461
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,080
all the people up there. 
They needed more land for farms.

1462
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,760
It's not so much that they 
wanted to go conquer and 

1463
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,160
pillage, they just needed more 
land to not starve. 

1464
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,520
And there were other people on 
that land already, so they 

1465
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,280
conquered A pillage. 
But yeah, well, some of them 

1466
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:32,440
did. 
Some of them wanted to conquer 

1467
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:34,720
and pillage. 
But yeah, yeah. 

1468
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:38,080
So yeah, you're right. 
Like, there's again, we don't 

1469
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:40,600
want to. 
You can't put them all into a 

1470
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,080
single bucket. 
There's a lot of different types

1471
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:46,480
of people involved here. 
Some that just wanted to rape 

1472
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,440
and pillage and there's no 
rehabilitating that. 

1473
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:50,840
But some of them were would be 
open to making a life a 

1474
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:52,080
different way. 
Like Asha. 

1475
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:56,000
We even a Greyjoy like Asha's 
like, why are we doing this? 

1476
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,960
Let's just go buy a load of 
goods and go to the other side 

1477
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:02,920
of the World, Trade that and 
come back and come back with 

1478
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:04,280
their goods and we'll make a 
ton. 

1479
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,640
Like a lot of Ironborn could do 
that instead of raping and 

1480
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,960
pillaging and and there's even 
arguably more money in the 

1481
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,800
trade. 
Less danger and yeah, or at 

1482
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:16,320
least similar danger. 
Traveling all the way to this 

1483
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,360
side of the world is probably 
pretty dangerous, but it's. 

1484
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,200
But that shouldn't be a problem.
If you're willing to to make a 

1485
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,440
living a dangerous way with the 
axe and sword than than what it 

1486
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:26,560
then yeah, this is a different 
sort of danger. 

1487
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:32,800
So yeah, I do see a path forward
for the Ironborn that isn't, you

1488
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,880
know, raping and pillaging and 
so did Asha. 

1489
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,520
She sees that as well. 
Like it's hard to convince her 

1490
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,720
countrymen of that, but most 
readers can see that and be 

1491
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,920
like, yeah, that. 
I mean, yeah, I think that makes

1492
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,280
sense. 
There's, like she pointed out 

1493
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,600
how there's large parts of the 
north and no one lives that have

1494
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,960
food. 
Like people could live there 

1495
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,680
like you. 
You could build farms and and 

1496
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:55,320
hovels here. 
There's good hunting grounds 

1497
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:56,480
here. 
There's good fishing here. 

1498
01:12:56,480 --> 01:12:58,040
There's good trees for. 
Yeah. 

1499
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:02,440
But yeah, so there is with the 
right vision and and right peace

1500
01:13:02,440 --> 01:13:04,480
and and sense of unity you could
have that. 

1501
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,080
Some those things did not happen
under Aegon or anyone. 

1502
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,880
Yeah, don't blame Aegon. 
Things like that did happen 

1503
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,400
elsewhere in the realm. 
But yeah, at no point is even 

1504
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,960
under Jaharis when building was 
at its peak, there's never been 

1505
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,800
a lot of like public works 
projects or building projects. 

1506
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:23,680
It's always been, you know, 
Jaharis was like one of the very

1507
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,240
few exceptions. 
And yeah, there is just not a 

1508
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,560
lot of that. 
So yeah, so the Iron Islands you

1509
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,560
can't really blame even though 
Aegon, it's sort of his job as 

1510
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,480
protector of the realm to come 
in and stop them from killing 

1511
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:37,320
each other and or to stop them 
from killing their neighbors. 

1512
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:41,520
The fact that they went at each 
other so hard isn't his fault, 

1513
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,120
right? 
It probably would have happened 

1514
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,160
in some degree anyway, so I'm 
not sure he's showing a disdain 

1515
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:51,240
for them rather than just making
them a low priority slash 

1516
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,640
understanding how hard this job 
is going to be to fix the Iron 

1517
01:13:55,640 --> 01:14:00,440
Islands or to keep them in line.
So there's a lot of different 

1518
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,320
factors to consider here now, 
and it's not the first time this

1519
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:08,480
is going to happen either. 
Consider what, a hundred a 200 

1520
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:14,640
and 1020 years later when Dagon 
Greyjoy emerges and just starts 

1521
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,560
attacking the West and the North
and doing his thing, and 

1522
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,640
Bloodraven's a little too 
concerned about the possibility 

1523
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,080
of another black fire invasion 
to send the ships over there and

1524
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:25,800
it's the same thing. 
It's kind of like he ignores the

1525
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:26,920
problem, doesn't ignore the 
problem. 

1526
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,240
He considers it a low priority 
for a while and maybe hopes it 

1527
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:33,200
takes care of itself and never 
does, and he has to go over and 

1528
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:33,880
deal with it. 
Now. 

1529
01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,400
I don't think Aegon expected 
this to take care of itself 

1530
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:41,240
entirely, but it's similar in 
that he he had to maybe rethink 

1531
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,920
his priorities eventually 
because this kept going. 

1532
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,520
One reason he might have not 
thought this would happen. 

1533
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,720
He may have been surprised at 
how much the Iron Isles tore 

1534
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:54,680
itself apart. 
Well, because, well, because 

1535
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,200
they aren't supposed to do that.
They have that religious 

1536
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:58,400
prohibition. 
We'll come back to that in a 

1537
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:03,080
minute, but let's not forget the
old way, says Ironborn are not 

1538
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:05,480
supposed to fight Ironborn. 
It's it's it's like religious 

1539
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:07,320
cultural thing that you're 
supposed to turn your violence 

1540
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,600
outward on other people's like 
everyone else is our wheat not 

1541
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,000
each other. 
Obviously like every cultural 

1542
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:18,840
taboo across a huge amount of 
time it gets broken. 

1543
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:23,320
But this is perhaps one of the 
most spectacular long extended 

1544
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,000
times of of that happening, of 
it being broken for quite a 

1545
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:28,560
while. 
So yeah, the ruling dynasty just

1546
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,000
up and vanished. 
Huge power, vacuum, structural 

1547
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:36,440
and power. 
There's no dynasty and no like 

1548
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,080
like the the horror dynasty had 
kind of started ignoring the 

1549
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:42,360
Iron Isles anyway, they were 
more focused on their land based

1550
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:44,280
projects on Harrenhal and ruling
the Riverland. 

1551
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,240
So they've already kind of been 
turned into a backwater. 

1552
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:49,400
That's something Theon forgets 
when he's talking about turning 

1553
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:51,880
it into a backwater. 
Your own king had started doing 

1554
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:54,840
that to. 
It just got worse when that king

1555
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:56,640
died. 
And so this. 

1556
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,800
So this is of course the power 
vacuum is going to be people 

1557
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:01,600
that step forward to try to fill
that vacuum. 

1558
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:04,560
For example, there were claims 
to be made, and here's the first

1559
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,680
one quote. 
House Horror had ruled the Iron 

1560
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,560
Man for long centuries, only to 
be extinguished in a single 

1561
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,160
night when Aegon unleashed 
Valerian's fires on Harrenhal, 

1562
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,120
though Heron the Black and his 
sons perished in those flames. 

1563
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:19,280
Korn, vollmark of Harlow, whose 
grandmother had been a younger 

1564
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,360
sister of Heron's Grand Sire, 
declared himself the rightful 

1565
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:25,520
heir quote of the Black Line and
assumed the kingship. 

1566
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:28,880
Not all Iron Born accepted this 
claim, however. 

1567
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,640
Yeah, if they had, it might have
just gone peacefully and they 

1568
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,480
may have bent the need to egg on
on their own. 

1569
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:35,440
And that would it be that and 
they're going to be like, Yep. 

1570
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:38,200
I don't have to do anything he 
may have, That may have been 

1571
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,400
something he hoped for. 
He may not have expected it to 

1572
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,880
be likely, but it was certainly 
on the table as a possibility. 

1573
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,960
But Corn Vollmark was unable to 
unite the Ironborn. 

1574
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,480
By the way, this is the only 
other corn we've ever heard of 

1575
01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:54,760
besides corn Half Hand. 
I believe I heard the theory 

1576
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,920
from Nina that there's a chance 
that Corn Half Hand is Ironborn.

1577
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,160
Not what you would expect, 
necessarily, but absolutely 

1578
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,000
possible. 
Now, generally speaking, if 

1579
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:06,280
someone's claim to a throne or a
seat or whatever a title, it 

1580
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:08,720
causes you to scrunch up your 
face calculating it. 

1581
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:12,760
Like wait, grandmother had been 
a younger sister of Heron's 

1582
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,000
grand sire Wait, what is that? 
If if it causes you to like feel

1583
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,640
like you're doing math, it's 
probably a bit specious. 

1584
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:23,000
It probably isn't a very strong 
claim in terms of blood. 

1585
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:27,200
However, it tells you nothing in
terms of how strong the claim is

1586
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:30,200
vis A vis military strength or 
political power, because that 

1587
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,680
can be you can have a very thin 
claim backed by a lot of 

1588
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,600
military strength. 
This appears to be neither. 

1589
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:38,120
It didn't have a lot of 
political power or military 

1590
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,720
strength, and it was kind of 
thin in terms of blood. 

1591
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,120
But Nina points out this is also
pretty common. 

1592
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,080
You know, sometimes there's just
the the IT may be a thin claim, 

1593
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,200
but that thin claim may be the 
strongest. 

1594
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:55,320
Like thin doesn't mean you know 
there's anything thicker like 

1595
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,800
Henry the 7th of England, right?
He was the great great great 

1596
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,680
grandson of King Edward the 3rd 
through the legitimized female 

1597
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:04,840
line. 
And then when the 17 O1 Act of 

1598
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,760
Settlement acknowledged 
Electress Sophia of Hanover as 

1599
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:11,080
heiress to the British Crown, 
there were more than 30 people 

1600
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,880
that probably had a stronger 
claim now because they were all 

1601
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:15,920
Catholic. 
Queen Anne turned to the 

1602
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,560
youngest daughter of her 
grandfather's sister Shay. 

1603
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,320
Do you remember that TV show? 
What was it called the one where

1604
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,240
the the two heirs the English? 
It was the two heirs from almost

1605
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,920
Royal where every the beginning 
of every episode it said Poppy 

1606
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,480
and Georgie are 51st and 52nd in
the to the line of the British 

1607
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:34,080
throne. 
The next episode will be Poppy 

1608
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:37,360
and Georgie are 67th and 68th. 
The next episode Poppy and 

1609
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,480
Georgie are 33rd and 34th and 
they would just change every 

1610
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:41,840
time. 
They would just make up a new 

1611
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:45,280
number every time for it and 
this is kind of that like I'm 

1612
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:48,440
like this is Corrin Valmark I 
don't know if he's his claim 

1613
01:18:48,440 --> 01:18:50,520
might have been the best but 
that doesn't mean it was good 

1614
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:53,000
right That the argument both 
works both ways it might be the 

1615
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,520
best claim that doesn't mean 
it's a good claim and but 

1616
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,440
they're but who else is there 
There's no one It's a problem 

1617
01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:01,440
when someone's claiming the 
throne and and no one has a 

1618
01:19:01,440 --> 01:19:04,600
strong claim So it really it 
only comes down to military and 

1619
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,920
political power if no one has a 
a strong blood claim. 

1620
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,600
Religious power, right, which is
where I'm going. 

1621
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,320
That's where religious power is 
going to come up huge here 

1622
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:17,440
because of the the power vacuum 
of political and military power 

1623
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:22,280
is filled by religious power. 
So while Aegon is off receiving 

1624
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,240
the blessing of the most 
important religious figure in 

1625
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:29,480
Westeros, meaning the High 
Septon, a less important 

1626
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:34,040
religious figure to Westeros as 
a whole, but the most important 

1627
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,920
religious figure in the Iron 
Islands was emerging or or I 

1628
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:40,120
guess he was becoming the most 
important at this time. 

1629
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,640
His name was Lotus, and we'll 
see him in a second here, in 

1630
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,120
addition to showing some 
contempt for the Isles via 

1631
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:48,800
making them a low priority, 
right. 

1632
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:51,880
Which is where we come back to 
reminding ourselves that Agon 

1633
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:53,800
accepted the seven. 
He took on a new religion, but 

1634
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,040
it wasn't the religion of the of
the Iron Isles. 

1635
01:19:56,040 --> 01:20:00,080
So they're seeing him switch 
religions and and they're still 

1636
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,720
on the outside of all that. 
So the power of religion again 

1637
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,720
this is what this is kind of 
this is pretty realistic I think

1638
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,840
you have a lot of back and 
forth. 

1639
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,040
You have power, vacuum, you know
people killing each other. 

1640
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,560
Religion floods the void. 
And then religion in the Iron 

1641
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:16,920
Isles is already extremely 
powerful. 

1642
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,240
The Drowned The priests of the 
Drowned God wield more power. 

1643
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:22,400
Than perhaps the priests of 
almost any other religion around

1644
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:23,960
the world. 
Maybe the red priests are an 

1645
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:25,680
exception, but I don't even know
about that. 

1646
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:28,480
They if it's the case, it's 
partly because they're so 

1647
01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:30,960
numerous. 
But man, the drowned priests 

1648
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:34,880
have a lot of power. 
Let's hear about that quote. 

1649
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:39,360
On Old Wick, under the bones of 
not a, the sea dragon, the 

1650
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:43,400
priests of the Drowned God 
placed a driftwood crown on the 

1651
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:47,760
head of one of their own, the 
barefoot holy man Lotos, who 

1652
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:51,600
proclaimed himself the living 
son of the Drowned God and was 

1653
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,000
said to be able to work 
miracles. 

1654
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:59,320
Other claimants arose on Great 
Wick, Pike and Orkmont, and for 

1655
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,640
more than a year their adherents
battled one another on land and 

1656
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,120
sea. 
It was said that the waters 

1657
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:11,080
between the islands were so 
choked with corpses that Krakens

1658
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:15,400
appeared by the hundreds drawn 
by the blood. 

1659
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,280
Can I say real quick, though, 
every time I say the words 

1660
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:21,840
driftwood crown? 
I hear we had a blooper one time

1661
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,080
where I think it was Aziz who 
said it, he said. 

1662
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,400
The Driftwood Clown. 
I did so I was like trying my 

1663
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:31,040
hardest as I said it. 
I was like the Driftwood crown, 

1664
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:33,400
the clip we unfortunately we 
lost this clip. 

1665
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:37,920
I had a collection of clips of 
of goof goofs mostly my own and 

1666
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:39,840
the hard drive that that was on 
died. 

1667
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,400
So we lost all those comedy 
clips and I I immediately just 

1668
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,640
busted out laughing. 
I just like heard myself say 

1669
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:49,920
Driftwood Clown and then just 
stop stunned at the humor that I

1670
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:54,040
had accidentally uttered. 
So this is a great great quote. 

1671
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,000
It brings into brings in a lot 
of fantasy elements but also 

1672
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,360
real world like religious 
traditions where some powerful 

1673
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,880
person declares themselves the 
son of a God, whether it's Jesus

1674
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,960
or any number of people before 
him or after him. 

1675
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,640
You know, declaring themselves 
the son of Egyptian gods or 

1676
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:17,320
Phoenician gods or just you name
it, people like Achilles is a 

1677
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:19,520
descendant of of Zeus and Thetus
and all. 

1678
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,040
You know, like Alexander the 
Great claims to to be a 

1679
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,120
descendant of Heracles with a 
descendant of of Zeus, etcetera.

1680
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:31,520
Like making yourself divine is a
age-old, tried and true practice

1681
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:34,960
in settings of both real and 
fantastical. 

1682
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,200
So said, he can work miracles. 
That's, I mean he declares 

1683
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,280
yourself the son of God and can 
work miracles. 

1684
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:42,880
That that does sound familiar, 
doesn't it? 

1685
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:47,160
So that's kind of neat. 
And this is one of several 

1686
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,960
mentions of krakens being drawn 
to the surface thanks to large 

1687
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:52,480
amounts of blood. 
George is dropping those hints 

1688
01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:55,840
of what happens when there's 
lots of blood in the sea, and 

1689
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,840
it's associating that with the 
Iron born. 

1690
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:02,800
And Speaking of the forsaken 
chapter and exciting, yes, yes. 

1691
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,000
So Speaking of Euron and Aaron 
as well, Euron new to get rid of

1692
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:07,920
Aaron because of stuff like 
this. 

1693
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:09,760
And he's like, he knew his 
history. 

1694
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,200
He knows how much of a hold the 
drowned priest have on the iron 

1695
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:14,600
where he's like, I can't let 
this get out of hand. 

1696
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:16,720
I can't Like this priest was 
crowned. 

1697
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,040
That's pretty unusual. 
Like you like Baylor, The 

1698
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,560
Blessed was crowned, but that's 
he's the Targaryen. 

1699
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:27,320
Like, how often is a Septon 
crowned or a religious leader 

1700
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:29,320
had a crown put on their head? 
Not very often. 

1701
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:31,320
And here it almost seemed 
normal. 

1702
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,760
Whereas in other places it'd be 
like, whoa, that is bizarre. 

1703
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:39,120
This is like like when Aaron in 
Aaron's chapter, his first 

1704
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:43,080
chapter, he hears Balon is dead.
He's like, who should sit to see

1705
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:44,840
stone chair. 
A bunch of his followers were 

1706
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:47,640
like, you should they're they 
they went right to it. 

1707
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,360
They're like Aaron Drift. 
Aaron Dampier, King King Aaron. 

1708
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,360
And then he's like I was made to
be a prophet. 

1709
01:23:54,480 --> 01:23:57,400
He's like the drowned God made 
me to be a prophet, not a king, 

1710
01:23:58,120 --> 01:23:59,480
you know, blah, blah, blah, 
blah, blah. 

1711
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:04,280
Which is why I know Euron is not
fit, because it's like, don't 

1712
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,160
put me on, but definitely don't 
put Euron on. 

1713
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,120
You know, like he's worse you. 
Know, but his argument wasn't 

1714
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:11,120
that a religious leader 
shouldn't be it. 

1715
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,240
It just so happens I'm not the 
religious leader. 

1716
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:15,560
That should be it, you know. 
Yes. 

1717
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:17,640
And so. 
And he still wields, and you can

1718
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,760
see he wields enormous power. 
It was just he's like, you know 

1719
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,200
what we should do? 
King's mood and the whole Iron 

1720
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,920
Islands is like, yes, King's 
moot because of this one guy, 

1721
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:27,480
this one priest. 
I mean, he is a Greyjoy. 

1722
01:24:27,480 --> 01:24:30,920
He's brother of the king. 
But still it goes to show the 

1723
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:34,200
power like Tommen couldn't do 
that. 

1724
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,840
He's the brother of a king. 
He couldn't have. 

1725
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:41,520
Just maybe that's not the best 
example, but still you. 

1726
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,240
Couldn't have done it. 
Stannis couldn't have done it. 

1727
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,520
Yeah, like they did a lot, but 
they couldn't do this, right? 

1728
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:50,840
So. 
So Euron is kind of doing a new 

1729
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,080
old way. 
Like he calls for the King's 

1730
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,280
Moot. 
It backfires because Aaron gets 

1731
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:58,040
Euron wins. 
The King's moot anyway. 

1732
01:24:58,040 --> 01:24:59,080
And how does he win the King's 
move? 

1733
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:00,640
By promising to do what Aegon 
did. 

1734
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,560
He's like, Ash is like you dumb 
brother. 

1735
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,320
You Aegon had Dragons. 
He's like, no, you're the dumb 

1736
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:10,200
one, sister. 
I mean nephew, Niece, I've got 

1737
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:11,760
Dragons. 
Or at least I've got a way to 

1738
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,480
get them with this here horn 
that you all will believe works.

1739
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:20,520
And maybe it does actually, but 
she didn't see that coming. 

1740
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:22,520
You know, like, oh, OK, really 
Dragons. 

1741
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:23,640
Yeah. 
Never mind that these Dragons 

1742
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,680
are tiny and are not instruments
of conquest. 

1743
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,840
Nearly nearly the means of 
Valerian. 

1744
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:29,720
But it is a parallel. 
It is a parallel. 

1745
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:34,560
And Urine also got rid of Meron 
Valmark before the Kings move. 

1746
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,960
Who had this bloodline? 
The horror dynasty. 

1747
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,840
The one that's even 300 years 
later had had some power, had 

1748
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:43,680
some sway in there. 
And he's like that's one guy. 

1749
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,320
Euron had his plan to win the 
King's move, but he still didn't

1750
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:48,800
want this guy to participate. 
He still kind of took this guy 

1751
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:51,440
out, removed him from the from 
the picture. 

1752
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:55,120
He mostly just he didn't care 
about what the other people were

1753
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:56,600
going to say because he knew 
they weren't going to sway 

1754
01:25:56,600 --> 01:25:58,680
anyone. 
He's like the one guy. 

1755
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:01,440
The the lonely light guy just 
starts babbling. 

1756
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:07,160
The the one Harlow guy or 
Vollmark. 

1757
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,120
Not Vollmark guy. 
Black tied guy just talks and 

1758
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:10,440
talks and talks. 
Everybody gets bored. 

1759
01:26:10,440 --> 01:26:13,280
I should uncorks root 
vegetables. 

1760
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,960
Victorian is boring and and just
says I'll be like Baylon who 

1761
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:20,080
lost, you know, and so yeah, so 
they're not. 

1762
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,240
You know, Jaron's like, I'm not 
worried about what they're going

1763
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:23,880
to say. 
But he was worried about what 

1764
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,600
Aaron would say, which is why he
captured him and why everyone 

1765
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,400
was like, where did Aaron go? 
What happened to Aaron? 

1766
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,360
Did he did he die on the way 
home to his home planet like 

1767
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:33,520
Poochie? 
Well, that's an ongoing 

1768
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,920
situation. 
So you're on new air. 

1769
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:43,160
The power who to shut up and who
to let talk to best when he 

1770
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:46,280
understands his people, right. 
And this is something that is 

1771
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:50,280
important here for us to 
understand, because Aegon is 

1772
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:54,040
dealing with this in a way that 
he doesn't have that experience 

1773
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,760
for he he doesn't know how to 
manipulate the Ironborn in ways 

1774
01:26:56,760 --> 01:27:00,440
that a Ironborn who, who've 
grown up amongst them would an 

1775
01:27:00,440 --> 01:27:03,640
ambitious, cunning manipulator 
like Euron. 

1776
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:07,400
Aegon isn't isn't really like 
that. 

1777
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:08,600
And I don't mean that in a good 
way. 

1778
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:10,400
Like, he just isn't like you're 
on. 

1779
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:12,960
That's a pretty low bar. 
Low dose is a real piece of 

1780
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:14,960
work, though. 
That guy's like the shepherd who

1781
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:15,880
you haven't met yet. 
Sean. 

1782
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:17,520
That's the Dance of the Dragons 
religious leader. 

1783
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:20,120
He's like the high Sparrow of 
the Ironborn. 

1784
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,440
Or again, like a Jesus figure, 
where I mean many, and I mean 

1785
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:26,480
many Ironborn died for him. 
Just gave up their lives. 

1786
01:27:26,480 --> 01:27:30,240
Like like you jump off a wall, 
OK? 

1787
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:33,600
Drown yourself, OK? 
And you know, that kind of he 

1788
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:35,000
had that kind of sway over 
people. 

1789
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:37,680
They didn't die for him. 
Like charging into battle they 

1790
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:40,400
died from just to prove their 
devoutness. 

1791
01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:42,240
Yeah, or that too, both battle 
and that. 

1792
01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:44,520
And so that's why this is part 
of why such a strange time in 

1793
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,280
the Iron Islands. 
You have a drowned priest as 

1794
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:49,360
king, and they're fighting each 
other when they're not supposed 

1795
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:50,840
to do that. 
You hear they're fighting each 

1796
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:54,680
other so badly that there's 
Krakens and blood in the water. 

1797
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,800
And that's that's wild. 
Like some some priests might be 

1798
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:58,520
saying. 
That's a good thing. 

1799
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:03,480
The Krakens are signs of God. 
The Drown God has sent his his 

1800
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,240
steeds to us or whatever. 
What do they How do they refer 

1801
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:10,120
to Krakens? 
So yeah. 

1802
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,320
So again, this may have been 
intentional on Aegon's part. 

1803
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:17,680
Let them tear each other apart, 
come in later when they're 

1804
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,720
weaker, and then settle things. 
Regardless of why he did it, 

1805
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,000
this will be the state of 
affairs until the second year of

1806
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,120
his reign. 
Not two full years, but during 

1807
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:27,280
the second year of his reign is 
when he finally comes to settle 

1808
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,720
that. 
We'll come back to it at that 

1809
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:33,160
point. 
Now let's spend the rest of this

1810
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:37,120
episode on Dorne chopping off as
much of Dorne as we can, because

1811
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:38,320
the war is not going to start 
for a while. 

1812
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:41,560
So we'll talk about the lead up 
to it and actual war with Dorne 

1813
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:45,600
will not until what, 10 AC? 
But it's not going to start 

1814
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:48,280
right away either. 
This wasn't violent at first, as

1815
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:51,680
violent and nasty and all out as
it gets. 

1816
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,840
It doesn't start off that way. 
It's always been a bit of a 

1817
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,240
realm apart from the others. 
The North is sort of like that 

1818
01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,560
too, with geography and and 
different beliefs and culture. 

1819
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:02,040
And like we said, so is the Iron
Islands. 

1820
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,400
So Geography's created a buffer 
and those cultural microcosms 

1821
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:08,680
bloom because of that 
separation, and it's been that 

1822
01:29:08,680 --> 01:29:12,320
way for so long. 
The separation is less in some 

1823
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:14,200
ways. 
Obviously the North and the Iron

1824
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:18,120
Islands have their own religion 
and Doran doesn't, but there is,

1825
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:20,360
and there's less difference in 
ethnic origin as well. 

1826
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:22,280
Though the Roy and R are not 
found in large numbers 

1827
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,920
elsewhere, most Ornish have 
common ancestors with the rest 

1828
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:27,480
of Westeros, right? 
And all first men, etcetera. 

1829
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,720
And the separation is also a big
part of why the submissions and 

1830
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:33,880
kneelings north of the Red 
Mountains was not compelling 

1831
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:36,160
enough to force their surrender 
like, well, just 'cause they 

1832
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,040
bent the knee doesn't mean we 
have to. 

1833
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:42,600
If you're if they were your 
counterparts like, well, the 

1834
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,360
Reach bent the knee, so the 
Stormlands will too, because 

1835
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,680
they're similar. 
They're way more similar as a 

1836
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:52,880
cultural group called 
Stormlanders and Rivermen, and 

1837
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,040
the Reach and the Vale have way 
more in common than they do with

1838
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,120
the Dornish, even though there 
are plenty of things to point 

1839
01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:59,480
that they have in common. 
Not just culturally, but I don't

1840
01:29:59,480 --> 01:30:00,920
know how to say it 
geographically. 

1841
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:03,560
Yeah, the way they live, like 
day-to-day. 

1842
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:04,760
Foods they eat, things like 
that. 

1843
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:08,800
Yeah, the Riverlands might maybe
are a little less in the 

1844
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:11,000
parallel I was trying to draw 
earlier how like? 

1845
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:15,520
The Reach and other areas would 
be more have more interconnected

1846
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:19,560
society societies. 
I I feel like the Riverlands are

1847
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:22,760
more of some isolated 
communities that get lumped 

1848
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,440
together and that's kind of how 
I feel about maybe the North and

1849
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:30,000
and and Dorne, whereas others 
are more complete, 

1850
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:34,080
interconnected societies, yeah. 
And when you have that, it, when

1851
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,560
you have a complete Internet to 
connect to society, you're more 

1852
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:40,000
susceptible to Dragons, Yeah, 
yes, than when you're spread out

1853
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,080
rural communities. 
And when you are already you 

1854
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:45,680
have that cultural connection 
that like you said, they're 

1855
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,040
doing it. 
So we will too. 

1856
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:49,840
They made that decision. 
It seems smart. 

1857
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,480
We will too. 
It it reflects our cultural 

1858
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:53,720
values the same way as it does 
them. 

1859
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:55,960
They've they're used to having 
the central authority. 

1860
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:58,840
It's not essential to the whole 
read to the entire continent, 

1861
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:00,680
but it is central to the reason 
they live in. 

1862
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:04,000
Whereas Dorne, as we've said, A,
they haven't had a central 

1863
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,400
authority nearly as long. 
B, that central authority isn't 

1864
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:08,560
as strong. 
So they've already valued their 

1865
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:10,440
independence more. 
So they already they're united 

1866
01:31:10,440 --> 01:31:14,480
by this ideology of 
independence, relative relative 

1867
01:31:14,480 --> 01:31:17,880
independence, more so than any 
of the other regions with the 

1868
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:19,800
possible exception of the Iron 
Islands, because they have that 

1869
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:22,560
whole every captain is a king on
the deck of his own ship thing. 

1870
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:24,760
But that's still, it's a 
different kind of independence 

1871
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:27,440
because it's not a national 
independence, it's more of a 

1872
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:30,000
like my ship. 
A ship isn't a nation, right? 

1873
01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:34,000
It's it's different in that 
sense so and so yeah. 

1874
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,160
So they value their freedom and 
independence more like the what 

1875
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:38,960
the wildlings the free folk are 
maybe our best bet here they are

1876
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,600
their knees do not bend as 
easily like if you'd expect like

1877
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,800
you see a number of times where 
the cultural friction between 

1878
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:49,600
people South of the wall and 
north of the wall gets off pace 

1879
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:51,200
right. 
Like where John Neal's demands 

1880
01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:53,280
and they just laugh at him like 
what are you doing man. 

1881
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,440
Like that's we don't do that 
here like you goofball like 

1882
01:31:56,440 --> 01:31:59,440
don't call him my Lord. 
He calls Corin half and my Lord 

1883
01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:02,160
and Corin's like I'm not. 
I mean that's not he's not even 

1884
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:03,280
free folk. 
He's just like I'm a Ranger. 

1885
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:06,120
He doesn't even he doesn't even 
get that difference which is 

1886
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:08,640
that's within his own people. 
But it's just things are done 

1887
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:10,720
differently north of the Wall. 
Like it's just a it's just a 

1888
01:32:11,080 --> 01:32:13,320
culture apart from most of the 
Seven kingdoms. 

1889
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:16,080
I mean the Wall is really far 
from most of the rest of society

1890
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,760
so that makes sense but John 
brings that with him until he he

1891
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,400
starts to learn not to do that. 
But it's it's hilarious when he 

1892
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:23,800
bends the knee oh he doesn't 
even bend the knee to Mance. 

1893
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,320
He bends to torment. 
Right he's he doesn't even he 

1894
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:28,840
sees the wrong guy. 
He's like Oh yeah, wrong Oh yeah

1895
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:31,000
your mance. 
Oh my bad and torment is 

1896
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:34,000
laughing you know they're all 
laughing at him and egret too 

1897
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:36,240
He's like you just you just had 
to have someone. 

1898
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:37,800
He's just looking for someone to
kneel to huh. 

1899
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:41,080
You just got to he doesn't 
kneeler's knees here and got to 

1900
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:42,880
kneel to somebody. 
It's it's the Dornish. 

1901
01:32:42,880 --> 01:32:45,240
You're like yeah we're not our 
knees aren't itching to bend. 

1902
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:48,040
We are. 
We a lot of date. 

1903
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:51,520
Like the Dornish are more like 
the type who you might not see 

1904
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:55,880
your Lord more than like or even
deal with him more than once a 

1905
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:57,720
year. 
Whereas like a river Lord 

1906
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:01,600
there's a lot more back and 
forth with like the levees and 

1907
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:03,200
the harvest and all this other 
stuff. 

1908
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:05,880
And yeah, they're just, they're 
just less connected even in 

1909
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,480
their day-to-day lives. 
So that's pretty important. 

1910
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:12,440
So Aegon, the farther you are, 
just the way they live makes 

1911
01:33:12,440 --> 01:33:13,640
them less susceptible to 
Dragons. 

1912
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:17,160
There are not, they're already 
not a culture that masses huge 

1913
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:21,240
armies to fight each other 
because it's hard to have big 

1914
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:23,240
armies in the desert in the 1st 
place. 

1915
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,080
It's just just doesn't make 
sense. 

1916
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,520
Logistically you can't. 
Like how do you or you're going 

1917
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,520
to get enough water and food to 
maintain that host? 

1918
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:32,080
And and with all this 
independence, why would there 

1919
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:33,200
even be a big army? 
Like who? 

1920
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,560
Where is this coming from? 
So they're naturally more 

1921
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,000
predisposed to to stand up to 
Dragons because their method of 

1922
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,760
war isn't a huge disadvantage. 
The way they are used to 

1923
01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:46,320
fighting doesn't make them an 
automatic loss, right? 

1924
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:49,000
Whereas the way the the Reach 
and the Riverlands, the way they

1925
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:50,960
fight it just sets them up to 
lose. 

1926
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:52,920
Where's the darnish guerrilla 
tactics? 

1927
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:59,920
Hiding, sneaking, ambushing. 
That doesn't present a set of 

1928
01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:02,720
disadvantages to facing dragon. 
In fact, that's a good way to go

1929
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,680
about facing drag. 
It might actually work, and it 

1930
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,440
hadn't been tested yet. 
No one had tried this guerrilla 

1931
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:10,080
style warfare against the 
Dragons yet. 

1932
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:12,720
The Dornish like, hey, we're 
good at this, we haven't seen 

1933
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:14,840
that it works. 
When the hightowers bent the 

1934
01:34:14,840 --> 01:34:16,640
knee, they were like everyone 
tried. 

1935
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,800
We tried nightly combat in a 
number of different ways and 

1936
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,040
none of it worked. 
The Dornish can't say that. 

1937
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:24,560
They can't say. 
Well, we tried our way of war 

1938
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,640
and it didn't work. 
No, it hasn't been tried yet. 

1939
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:29,760
They haven't tried yet, so they 
they're not willing to surrender

1940
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:31,600
until they've tried. 
Well, they weren't even willing 

1941
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:34,360
to surrender after that, but 
definitely not before. 

1942
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:37,240
Clearly Aegon and his sisters 
expected otherwise. 

1943
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,080
Though they walked in, they said
one dragon and one rider. 

1944
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:41,920
I don't think they would have 
just done that if they expected 

1945
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,120
otherwise, but that is what 
happened. 

1946
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:48,200
They were mistaken, quote. 
Rainey's Targaryen had no such 

1947
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,600
easy conquest. 
A host of Dornish Spearman 

1948
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,480
guarded the Prince's Pass, the 
Gateway through the Red 

1949
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:57,320
Mountains, but Rainey's did not 
engage them. 

1950
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:02,280
She flew above the pass, above 
the red sands and the white, and

1951
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:07,280
descended upon Vaith to demand 
its submission, only to find the

1952
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:12,280
castle empty and abandoned. 
In the town beneath its walls 

1953
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:16,000
only women and children and old 
men remained. 

1954
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:21,640
When asked where their Lords had
gone, they would only say away. 

1955
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:24,440
So let's look at where Vaith is 
on the map. 

1956
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:27,120
It's a pretty neat location 
here. 

1957
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:29,160
They're sigils a little bit like
the Cleganes. 

1958
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:31,600
Instead of three black dogs, 
they got 3 black leopards. 

1959
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:33,640
Yeah, that's cool. 
So instead of capitulating, 

1960
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:36,800
they've kind of agreed tacitly 
to a countrywide strategy you 

1961
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,120
just don't face the Dragons, 
don't surrender, just don't even

1962
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:41,800
talk to them, basically. 
And and here on the only one 

1963
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,400
that would talk to them, Well, 
we'll get to it in a minute. 

1964
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,200
We'll see. 
I wonder if House Vaith and 

1965
01:35:46,200 --> 01:35:49,960
House Santagar are very related.
They both have leopards. 

1966
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,160
It's really and it really just 
speaks to like the idea of there

1967
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:56,040
being, you know, Yeah, because 
I'm Spotted Silva of South 

1968
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:57,640
Santegar. 
Like, see, they're they're 

1969
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:00,360
leopards. 
But I just never considered the 

1970
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,640
idea that vase and vase and 
Santegar might have married or 

1971
01:36:03,640 --> 01:36:06,600
maybe just I never really 
thought about how how much that 

1972
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:09,760
speaks to how many leopards 
there must be and or have been 

1973
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:11,280
in Dorne. 
That's a good point. 

1974
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:13,720
You know one day we're going to 
do you know animal stuff more 

1975
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:16,320
animal stuff and and regional 
animals and Westerosi animals 

1976
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:17,720
SoC. 
Animals that would be neat to 

1977
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:22,040
kind of use sigils as a way to 
try to figure out maybe what 

1978
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:23,440
type. 
Of regional actually live in 

1979
01:36:23,440 --> 01:36:26,560
that area or live. 
Yeah yeah yeah yeah like you 

1980
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:28,320
easy. 
It's pretty easy to see like 

1981
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,880
people having like over over 
haunted the leopards because 

1982
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,640
they are so like yeah it's 
really easy to imagine that 

1983
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:37,720
having happened. 
So there's very few or something

1984
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:38,640
now. 
Good call. 

1985
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:43,160
Or something from the roinar 
having brought over then maybe, 

1986
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:45,320
I don't know, but maybe there 
aren't many leopards there in 

1987
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:47,400
the 1st place. 
Like there aren't any lions in 

1988
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:50,040
England, but so many of the 
Crest of the royal families 

1989
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:50,920
have. 
Lions in them. 

1990
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:53,440
That's a great point that 
totally we could look that maybe

1991
01:36:53,440 --> 01:36:57,240
there were leopards in Esso so 
and along the Rhine or something

1992
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,000
I I it seems likely enough that 
are there other desert leopards 

1993
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:03,680
I think I think I don't know big
cats. 

1994
01:37:03,680 --> 01:37:05,840
This could be a good question 
for George at some point. 

1995
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:08,160
So Rainey's might have been a 
little confused. 

1996
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:12,000
She shows up at Vaith and 
they're like, they're not here. 

1997
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:14,920
And she'd be like, well, that's 
weird, like, because it's not 

1998
01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:16,680
just the Lord's away, It's like,
everyone's away. 

1999
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,720
There's like some some older 
people, some children, you know?

2000
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:22,120
No, no one noble, no one to take
is a hostage. 

2001
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:23,520
Not that she could take a 
hostage, anyway. 

2002
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:26,440
She's by herself on her dragon. 
Like, how's she going to strap a

2003
01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:28,240
hostage on her saddle? 
I mean, I guess she could do 

2004
01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:30,520
that, but that's a little weird.
So. 

2005
01:37:30,680 --> 01:37:32,960
It'd be a little risky 
physically getting a hostage, 

2006
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:36,400
like, Yeah, exactly. 
And so she would be like, I 

2007
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:38,040
wonder what's going on. 
Or she would have. 

2008
01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:40,360
This is what she'd be thinking 
about while flying to the next 

2009
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:42,440
castle. 
Like, what are they doing here? 

2010
01:37:42,440 --> 01:37:43,720
What's their game? 
Why are they? 

2011
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:45,320
Am I going to have this happen 
again? 

2012
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:48,040
If I fly to another castle, are 
they going to also not be there?

2013
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:50,040
Well, let's see what happened 
next quote. 

2014
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:54,400
Rainey's followed the river 
downstream to God's Grace, seat 

2015
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,640
of House Elyrian, but it too was
deserted. 

2016
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:01,080
On she flew. 
Where the green blood met the 

2017
01:38:01,080 --> 01:38:05,480
sea Rainey's came upon the 
planky town, where hundreds of 

2018
01:38:05,480 --> 01:38:10,720
pole boats, fishing skiffs, 
barges, houseboats and hulks sat

2019
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:15,080
baking in the sun, joined 
together with ropes and chains 

2020
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:17,720
and planks to make a floating 
city. 

2021
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:23,240
Yet only a few old women and 
small children appeared to peer 

2022
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:26,440
up at her as Meraxes circled 
overhead. 

2023
01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:29,600
So let's also look at these 
locations on the map, just to 

2024
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:33,520
situate ourselves, and you can 
see where she came from and 

2025
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:35,760
where she went. 
She went from Faith down to 

2026
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:39,000
God's Grace and near Plancky 
Town. 

2027
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,400
Course the people of Plancky 
Town might feel a little 

2028
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:44,240
vulnerable with the dragon 
around and all these ships and 

2029
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:47,920
their livelihoods. 
Just one breath of Meraxes could

2030
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:51,040
wipe out, you know, like a third
of them and start a fire that 

2031
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:53,760
might wipe out most of the rest.
But of course, that wasn't her 

2032
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:55,200
business. 
She wasn't there to destroy 

2033
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,720
them, not yet. 
And they weren't there to kill 

2034
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:59,800
her, right? 
They could have. 

2035
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,600
She's by herself. 
She's walking into castles by 

2036
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:06,040
herself without a guard. 
If they had wanted to kill her, 

2037
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:08,200
they could have, but they 
clearly didn't go straight to 

2038
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:09,680
that option. 
They're definitely going to try 

2039
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,640
that later, but it's not their 
first move. 

2040
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:19,720
I I I assume because they didn't
want it to become a blood debt 

2041
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:22,640
situation right away. 
Kill one of Aegon's sisters and 

2042
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,200
he's not going to publicly. 
He's not going to be able to do 

2043
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:29,600
anything other than bring 
massive fire and sword down on 

2044
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:31,800
you. 
And they didn't want to do that.

2045
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:36,280
They wanted to maybe find a 
third option, a way to dissuade 

2046
01:39:36,480 --> 01:39:43,320
a conquest, but not a way to 
encourage revenge, you know, So 

2047
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:47,680
the staying away method is what 
we see here. 

2048
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:50,320
I'm going to say before you take
the map down real quick, just 

2049
01:39:50,320 --> 01:39:52,920
because I was thinking about it,
looking at it, just going back 

2050
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:57,480
to what we were saying earlier 
about the differences in the 

2051
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:00,800
cultures and how the geographic 
regions kind of preserve that. 

2052
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:06,680
And how I was saying that Dorne 
is more this loose union of a 

2053
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:09,560
bunch of different cultures 
rather than an interconnected 

2054
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:11,920
society like, you know, the West
or something. 

2055
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:16,520
Just think about how different 
and far away Planky Town and 

2056
01:40:16,520 --> 01:40:20,480
Black Mountain like this coastal
town versus buried in the middle

2057
01:40:20,480 --> 01:40:22,440
of the mountains and the 
distance between them. 

2058
01:40:22,440 --> 01:40:25,040
I wish I knew a little bit 
better, but that's probably as 

2059
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:27,200
far as from the Reach to 
Winterfell, right? 

2060
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:30,200
That's it's just left right 
difference instead of you know, 

2061
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:31,560
east West instead of 
north-south. 

2062
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:33,120
But not quite that far, but very
far. 

2063
01:40:33,120 --> 01:40:36,240
But if someone in Sunspare makes
some proclamation or says, you 

2064
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:39,120
know, send an envoy to me or 
gathering on, I think how long 

2065
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:41,640
it takes for that message to get
to the Tower of Joy or 

2066
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:44,520
Sandstone, Yeah, just just 
sending that message and then 

2067
01:40:44,520 --> 01:40:47,440
the response to it. 
And it like it's just it's so 

2068
01:40:47,440 --> 01:40:51,560
much harder for Sunspear to have
the same sort of direct control 

2069
01:40:51,720 --> 01:40:54,880
over its envoys. 
Then say the Reach over Old 

2070
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,280
Town, or Old Town over one of 
its banner men, or I think even 

2071
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:01,120
Winterfell over. 
I think you mostly still have 

2072
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,760
Ravens with messages, which 
wouldn't be too bad, but you're 

2073
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:05,960
right. 
Like any but not obviously not 

2074
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:08,800
all messages go by Raven. 
Like most messages don't go by 

2075
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:11,440
Raven because most people don't 
have a maester and trained 

2076
01:41:11,440 --> 01:41:13,440
Ravens to. 
Right. 

2077
01:41:13,440 --> 01:41:16,880
But yeah, say but say the Raven 
can get there fast and they're 

2078
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:19,840
not affected by the heat of the 
desert or going across the 

2079
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,600
heights of the mountains. 
But with it, what if the message

2080
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:26,800
is we're having a feast? 
Send here Prince and four 

2081
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:28,720
soldiers or whatever. 
Then they have to cross the 

2082
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:30,120
mountains. 
Cross the desert. 

2083
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:31,760
You know it's it's. 
Crazy to think about how far 

2084
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:33,520
ahead you have to send the 
invites out for medieval 

2085
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:37,000
parties, and that's something 
that they might be excited to 

2086
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:38,240
do. 
What if it's like we're 

2087
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:42,560
gathering army to go attack the 
the Dragon Lords or something or

2088
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:45,600
we're we're setting up a defense
against the Dragon Lords or 

2089
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:49,560
whatever it is. 
You could see how the message 

2090
01:41:49,560 --> 01:41:51,800
might be. 
Hey black mom, just hide out. 

2091
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:53,960
Just hide out. 
So we'll see what happens. 

2092
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:55,880
We're going to hide out. 
You hide out, you know. 

2093
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:59,600
I really like that and have this
organized front against the 

2094
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:01,880
Targaryens. 
I agree because it's it's it is 

2095
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:04,760
it does seem like they may have 
had a united strategy like I I 

2096
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:07,400
flow to the idea that maybe this
is just kind of because they 

2097
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:08,880
share an ideology, this is how 
they're going to handle. 

2098
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:10,720
But it seems like this was a 
concerted effort that they had 

2099
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:13,640
discussed the fact that no one 
was there to meet her. 

2100
01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:17,920
Except for one very specific 
person who was there to meet 

2101
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:20,760
her, as we'll see in a second, 
and had just has just so happens

2102
01:42:20,760 --> 01:42:24,360
to be the leader of Dorne. 
So it sounds like this was 

2103
01:42:24,360 --> 01:42:25,920
prearranged, like no one talked 
to her. 

2104
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:29,880
Let her come all the way to me 
and I'll give her the final 

2105
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:33,320
message, which is, well, let's 
hear it. 

2106
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:35,760
Well, before we do this message,
can I just show, say something 

2107
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:37,080
about this map? 
Absolutely. 

2108
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:39,920
Sean, you were bringing up the 
distance from Blackmont to 

2109
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:41,960
Planckytown and looking at it 
there. 

2110
01:42:42,400 --> 01:42:45,320
I just wanted to like and you 
were comparing it to the Reach 

2111
01:42:45,320 --> 01:42:48,200
versus Winterfell. 
I just want you to visualize 

2112
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:49,480
that. 
Like picture the end of the 

2113
01:42:49,480 --> 01:42:51,520
desert to the tip of the desert.
That's the distance you're 

2114
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,840
talking about. 
If you look at Highgarden up to 

2115
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:57,680
Winterfell, it's it's four or 
five times that is much farther.

2116
01:42:57,880 --> 01:42:59,800
I just thought it would be 
helpful for you to see it 

2117
01:42:59,800 --> 01:43:02,760
visually right here. 
Ultimately anyway. 

2118
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,920
It's just that I I might have 
picked a bad example, but I 

2119
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:09,440
think you can easily pick two 
cities that are far apart that 

2120
01:43:09,440 --> 01:43:10,680
are clearly far apart. 
They're. 

2121
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:15,800
Harbor to As far as White Harbor
to the Yuri is probably about 

2122
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:17,480
similar. 
Yeah, how about like from the 

2123
01:43:17,480 --> 01:43:21,920
Sisters to Dragonstone? 
Maybe that is maybe still even 

2124
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:25,920
twice as far, maybe 3/4 as much.
But anyways, sorry I didn't have

2125
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:27,960
a digression, I just had to. 
I just wondered if it just 

2126
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:30,440
boggles the mind sometimes how 
big the world actually. 

2127
01:43:30,440 --> 01:43:33,080
Is I I'm always down for a a map
discussion. 

2128
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:35,480
Yeah, yeah, just when you see 
it, when you see it zoomed in on

2129
01:43:35,480 --> 01:43:38,000
Dorn, it looks so big. 
And then you see it here on 

2130
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,080
West, you're like that's just 
the tiny little. 

2131
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:42,800
As long as you're getting into 
the weeds of this, though, and 

2132
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:46,160
just to defend myself a little 
bit, maybe I wonder if the North

2133
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,760
is stretched out kind of like 
our maps of Canada are, you 

2134
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,320
know? 
Yeah, I I actually do think that

2135
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:54,360
that's possible that there is 
some slight distortion just 

2136
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:56,760
because I I don't I. 
Mean We're told the North is 

2137
01:43:56,760 --> 01:43:59,360
larger than, not just. 
And that's not because of maps, 

2138
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:02,280
that's just because of travel 
and like think of how long it 

2139
01:44:02,280 --> 01:44:04,480
takes for the northern host 
together and all that. 

2140
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:07,240
That's partly because of the 
difficulty of messages and and 

2141
01:44:07,240 --> 01:44:09,400
getting, you know, Raven places 
where Ravens don't go. 

2142
01:44:10,120 --> 01:44:13,040
But yeah, some of that would be 
worse in a desert scenario. 

2143
01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:15,160
Or I was going to say, aside 
from the straighter distance, 

2144
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:17,560
there's also the train. 
It's easier to travel across 

2145
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:20,120
these forests and fields and 
against the deserts and 

2146
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:22,480
mountains, so. 
Well, there are rivers to cross,

2147
01:44:22,760 --> 01:44:25,120
and even though there's deserts,
there's also rivers to cross. 

2148
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:26,800
Yeah. 
So, yeah. 

2149
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:28,200
So anyway, so it's not a simple 
thing. 

2150
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:30,280
You can't just look at the map 
and be sure that's that's one 

2151
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:32,920
thing we can tell from from this
mini debate here, discussion. 

2152
01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:35,560
It's not just as simple as 
looking at distance, but that 

2153
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:36,960
definitely gives us a ballpark 
figure. 

2154
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:39,120
It help definitely helps. 
And also is a good time to 

2155
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:43,640
remind folks that you can if 
you're listening on Spotify or 

2156
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:46,280
if obviously if you're watching 
the video, you're you've seen 

2157
01:44:46,280 --> 01:44:47,720
all this. 
But if you're listening on 

2158
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:51,440
Spotify nowadays, you can click 
a button and turn the video on 

2159
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,440
and then turn it back off. 
So you're not using a lot of 

2160
01:44:54,440 --> 01:44:56,560
bandwidth, your phone isn't 
using as much battery. 

2161
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:59,160
But if you want to just briefly 
be able to see what we're 

2162
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:01,360
talking about and then have the 
screen off the whole time, you 

2163
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:03,040
have that option nowadays on 
Spotify. 

2164
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:05,600
Click the video feed on, look at
what we're talking about, and 

2165
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:07,000
then click it off when it's just
us. 

2166
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:08,680
In front of our microphones 
again. 

2167
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,880
So I want to just take my take a
an opportunity every once in a 

2168
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:14,760
while to remind people that 
that's an option because that's 

2169
01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:18,640
a fairly new thing in the 
podcast world to be able to have

2170
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:23,000
to have video at all. 
But to have video doesn't mean 

2171
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:25,360
just because people, people 
think of it as all or nothing. 

2172
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:27,520
But you don't have to. 
You can have the video on just 

2173
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:31,040
for a few moments at a time if 
you if for some reason you can't

2174
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:33,400
have it on the whole time. 
So now I can read my quote. 

2175
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,680
And now it's backing up to where
we were, which is the next step.

2176
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:41,280
In Rainey's travails and treks 
around Dorne quote. 

2177
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,600
Finally, the Queen's flight took
her to Sunspear, the ancient 

2178
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:49,200
seat of House Martel, where she 
found the Princess of Dorne 

2179
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:52,160
waiting in her abandoned castle,
Miriam. 

2180
01:45:52,160 --> 01:45:56,760
Martel was 80 years of age, the 
Maesters tell us, and had ruled 

2181
01:45:56,760 --> 01:45:59,640
the Dornish men for sixty of 
those years. 

2182
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:04,640
She was very fat, blind and 
almost bald, her skin sallow and

2183
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,640
sagging. 
Argillac the Arrogant had named 

2184
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:12,880
her the yellow Toad of Dorne, 
but neither age nor blindness 

2185
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:16,560
had dulled her wits. 
I will not fight you, Princess, 

2186
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:19,360
Maria told Raines. 
Nor will I kneel to you. 

2187
01:46:19,680 --> 01:46:23,080
Dorne has no king. 
Tell your brother that I shall, 

2188
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:25,760
Raines replied. 
But we will come again, 

2189
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:30,080
Princess, and the next time we 
shall come with fire and blood. 

2190
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:35,120
Your words, said Princess Maria.
Ours are unbowed, unbent, 

2191
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:38,840
unbroken. 
You may burn us, my lady, but 

2192
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:42,040
you will not bend us, break us, 
or make us bow. 

2193
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:45,040
This is Dorn. 
You are not wanted here. 

2194
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:50,200
Return at your peril. 
Thus Queen and Princess parted, 

2195
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:53,680
and Dorn remained unconquered. 
It's a different kind of 

2196
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,000
Princess and the Queen. 
Yeah, it's true. 

2197
01:46:56,000 --> 01:46:59,920
The Princess and the Queen. 
I can only hear Ian Glenn saying

2198
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:03,240
that in his. 
Great delivery of the Princess 

2199
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:07,640
and the Queen, Yes, Because, 
yes, Ian Glenn slash Jorah did 

2200
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:10,200
read The Princess and the Queen.
Pretty cool. 

2201
01:47:10,440 --> 01:47:13,520
So, Sean, you had in our notes 
you're wondering about the 

2202
01:47:13,520 --> 01:47:17,240
phrase fire and blood here. 
Now of course, the phrase we 

2203
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,080
don't know how I knew that they 
didn't have a sigil before, 

2204
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:21,720
right? 
That was something that they 

2205
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:24,680
came up with as part of this 
conquest, and it made me think, 

2206
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:26,760
oh, did they have words? 
The words came at the same time.

2207
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:30,840
OK, so but, so I wondered if 
they if this is where they were 

2208
01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:33,560
coming from or they must have 
just come up with these words. 

2209
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:36,040
This is like the Is this the 
first time it got run out there,

2210
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:37,560
you know? 
I think it might be the first 

2211
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:38,560
time it was run out there. 
Yeah. 

2212
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:42,360
Because like, it's neat that 
that she says it that way. 

2213
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:44,360
It sounds like another one of 
those examples where the 

2214
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:47,120
historians kind of just wrote 
with their like there's no 

2215
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:49,880
witness to this. 
You know, this is not like it's 

2216
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:53,040
specifically said. 
When Heron and Aegon have a 

2217
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:55,800
conversation, it says the 
maesters were there, so they 

2218
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:59,600
know exactly what was said. 
That's the only time they say 

2219
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:01,320
the maesters were there. 
So we know exactly what was 

2220
01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:03,880
said. 
So all these other times this is

2221
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:06,120
made-up dialogue. 
Horses made-up dialogue, but I 

2222
01:48:06,120 --> 01:48:08,440
mean it. 
You see this in history books 

2223
01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:11,920
all the time, real history books
where invented dialogue is 

2224
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:14,720
inserted by historians. 
It is extremely common. 

2225
01:48:15,080 --> 01:48:18,280
I I had that day as a as a young
person interested in history. 

2226
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:20,840
I remember reading ancient 
history, but just reading like a

2227
01:48:20,840 --> 01:48:22,680
battle speech before some 
battle. 

2228
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:25,000
I remember what it was and it 
just donned him. 

2229
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:26,720
He's like, how do they know what
he said? 

2230
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:30,960
Of course they don't. 
The answer is they don't have 

2231
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:34,080
any idea what he said. 
They completely just put words 

2232
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:38,040
and mouths of these powerful 
people just to make it. 

2233
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:39,840
I don't know why. 
Just to make it feel more 

2234
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:40,640
realist. 
I don't. 

2235
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:43,920
Yeah, just to put us there, a 
bunch of different reasons why. 

2236
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:48,480
Yeah, entertainment, like and. 
Yeah, I'm not against it, but we

2237
01:48:48,480 --> 01:48:51,120
should see it for what it is. 
And this is George is doing 

2238
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:53,800
following a real world tradition
here attempts to find the truth 

2239
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:56,040
too. 
There might be like, yeah, maybe

2240
01:48:56,040 --> 01:48:58,320
stories of what was said were 
passed down even. 

2241
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:00,840
I don't really know. 
And whatever the story is 

2242
01:49:00,840 --> 01:49:03,360
probably gets manipulated a 
little bit to make it sound more

2243
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:07,280
exciting or interesting or 
appropriate for the morality of 

2244
01:49:07,280 --> 01:49:08,240
their culture. 
You know, do. 

2245
01:49:08,240 --> 01:49:11,480
They really say their slogans 
like that you, we're unbound, 

2246
01:49:11,480 --> 01:49:13,320
unbent, unbroken. 
You know, like, that's our 

2247
01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:14,600
words. 
Your words are fire and blood. 

2248
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:18,040
Were they really chatting via 
slogan? 

2249
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:20,160
Maybe. 
I mean, it's it's possible, 

2250
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:21,720
'cause it does fit the 
situation. 

2251
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:23,200
It's like, well, our words say 
we don't do that. 

2252
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:25,000
I was like, well, our words say 
we're going to come make you. 

2253
01:49:25,520 --> 01:49:27,680
All right, then we'll see whose 
words are stronger. 

2254
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:31,200
Slogan, fight. 
You know, slogan. 

2255
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:32,120
Slogan. 
Battle. 

2256
01:49:32,120 --> 01:49:32,960
Slogan. 
Wars. 

2257
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:37,040
So yeah, this was maybe the 
first time that this, the word 

2258
01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:40,320
fire and blood were used, like, 
projected that way, 'cause 

2259
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:43,960
you're right, they didn't have 
those words until they decided 

2260
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:46,160
to be more Westerosi. 
Like, we had a banner and house 

2261
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:47,760
words like all these other 
houses. 

2262
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:50,080
So let's do it. 
And so yeah, this is them 

2263
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:51,840
projecting that out into the 
world. 

2264
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:55,520
So according to fire and blood. 
When this is happening, when 

2265
01:49:55,520 --> 01:50:01,080
Maria of Dorne is saying Nope to
Rainy's around the same time 

2266
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:04,000
this is happening, Aegon is 
being crowned at Old Town. 

2267
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:05,680
He may have already been 
crowned, so they may have been 

2268
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:06,600
again. 
We were talking about how that 

2269
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,080
was full of premature. 
It may have been very premature.

2270
01:50:09,080 --> 01:50:12,680
She may not have even spoken 
with the with with Maria yet for

2271
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:15,600
Maria yet. 
So he's calling himself King of 

2272
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:18,080
all Westeros. 
And Mary's just waiting there to

2273
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:20,120
be like, no, not all of 
Westeros. 

2274
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,560
And This is why we suggested 
maybe a little bit of 

2275
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:29,360
overconfidence. 
Because Agon's not going to win 

2276
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:32,520
them over by violence, nor will 
any of his descendants 190 years

2277
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:34,880
before a full submission. 
And that's through marriage. 

2278
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:39,040
And like I said, it may have 
made their resistance all the 

2279
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:42,080
more fierce that he insulted 
them by claiming dominion 

2280
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:44,080
without even coming to their 
country in the first place. 

2281
01:50:44,920 --> 01:50:47,560
Now, Miria Miria, clearly named 
for Nymeria, it's. 

2282
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:51,160
Nye Miria, it's. 
One of my favorite details. 

2283
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:56,240
I just want to shout that out. 
Presents another prudential 

2284
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,720
angle for for us here in 
explaining Dornish resistance. 

2285
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:01,360
It's quite possible their 
resistance would have been just 

2286
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,920
as fierce without this angle, 
but I think this matters. 

2287
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:09,120
Nymeria LED her refugees away 
from where? 

2288
01:51:10,120 --> 01:51:12,840
From the destruction of the 
royner cities. 

2289
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:14,600
By who? 
The Valyrians? 

2290
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:18,520
The Dragon Lords. 
They're very much predisposed to

2291
01:51:18,520 --> 01:51:23,040
standing up or not bowing to 
Dragon Lords like it's in their 

2292
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:25,680
history. 
The people, all their royal 

2293
01:51:25,680 --> 01:51:29,720
families named after. 
This is what they did like. 

2294
01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:32,480
It wouldn't. 
It would be demeaning in a lot 

2295
01:51:32,480 --> 01:51:36,840
of ways, or would insult their 
own history to give up, 

2296
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:40,400
especially without a fight. 
Like, they fled all that way. 

2297
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:42,400
They went through all those 
travels and travails, The 

2298
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:45,200
Odyssey of the Roinar. 
It's their their equivalent. 

2299
01:51:45,280 --> 01:51:47,280
And they're they're just going 
to bend the knee to the next 

2300
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:49,680
dragon, to a Dragon Lord 600 
years later without a fight. 

2301
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:51,760
After all that. 
What a what an insult to all 

2302
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:54,800
they had gone through, all they 
had fought for to keep their 

2303
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:55,960
culture alive. 
Right. 

2304
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:57,840
Like that's. 
Yeah. 

2305
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:02,880
Come on, you can't do that. 
I mean, I'm not there. 

2306
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:04,800
I'm not in charge. 
But you would think that would 

2307
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:05,840
matter a lot. 
Yeah. 

2308
01:52:05,840 --> 01:52:07,840
And there's all these names. 
It's not just Maria, right? 

2309
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,720
It's. 
For Maria, there's Nymaros 

2310
01:52:09,720 --> 01:52:11,320
Print. 
The title is it's Nymaros 

2311
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:14,920
Martel, right? 
Nymar is like her son or her. 

2312
01:52:15,000 --> 01:52:18,320
Yeah, there's just half of them 
are named after Nymaria, so they

2313
01:52:18,320 --> 01:52:21,440
clearly value the things she 
valued and hold her in high 

2314
01:52:21,440 --> 01:52:24,640
regard and the things she stood 
for, so. 

2315
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:27,400
What, are they going to just 
become slaves of another set of 

2316
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:29,200
dragon Lords that they fought so
hard to resist? 

2317
01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:32,800
Yeah, I just can't see it. 
Yeah, like, but Aegon seems to 

2318
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:35,720
have ignored that he he he seems
to have understood the history 

2319
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:37,160
of a lot of the other people he 
was going after. 

2320
01:52:37,440 --> 01:52:39,760
This looks like a pretty big 
oversight to not consider that 

2321
01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:45,520
the descendants of those who 
fled his ancestors would not 

2322
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:49,720
submit so easily the second go 
round here, even though it's 

2323
01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:54,840
been 600 years or more, they 
clearly haven't forgotten so. 

2324
01:52:55,560 --> 01:52:59,400
I think there's definitely some 
oversight, some overconfidence, 

2325
01:52:59,400 --> 01:53:01,360
as well as maybe missing some 
important details. 

2326
01:53:01,360 --> 01:53:03,040
If they had thought some of 
these things through, or been 

2327
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:06,360
more aware of them, I think they
would have known that they 

2328
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:07,680
wouldn't be bending the knee so 
easily. 

2329
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:09,800
That doesn't mean they wouldn't 
still approach at the same we'll

2330
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:13,080
still OK, we'll go through the 
motion, send an envoy, ask for 

2331
01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:16,520
your submission, you say no, 
back to the drawing board, 

2332
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:18,480
because it's not like it went 
straight to war after that 

2333
01:53:18,520 --> 01:53:20,200
either. 
It's not like war just 

2334
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:22,400
immediately started. 
It's not like Rainey didn't fly 

2335
01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:24,760
home and say, OK, get the Army 
ready, let's go. 

2336
01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:28,840
No, no there was there was 
actually more to it but what 

2337
01:53:28,840 --> 01:53:32,440
we'll get to as the timeline 
moves forward there was more 

2338
01:53:32,440 --> 01:53:34,600
peaceable attempts before it 
turned to war. 

2339
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:37,280
So the war, the violence doesn't
start for quite a while still 

2340
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:40,480
and there there's so this is a 
large number of reasons why the 

2341
01:53:40,480 --> 01:53:44,200
Dorn we we've out we've pointed 
out why the Dornish would see 

2342
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:48,160
the situation different culture,
geography, history. 

2343
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:50,280
Big one here with the with the 
Roinar. 

2344
01:53:50,480 --> 01:53:52,880
Especially them. 
But beyond that just their 

2345
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:55,480
ability to resist their 
confidence and understanding and

2346
01:53:55,480 --> 01:53:59,560
and their strategies and and 
thinking maybe we have ways that

2347
01:53:59,560 --> 01:54:00,760
will work in war that they 
don't. 

2348
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:04,600
So Aegon was proved wrong like 
he whether he his advisors told 

2349
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:06,240
him. 
Here's another angle to this by 

2350
01:54:06,240 --> 01:54:08,960
the way who is who are his 
advisors at this point? 

2351
01:54:08,960 --> 01:54:11,560
Who's telling him how to handle 
the Dornish by the reach and the

2352
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:12,800
Storm lands? 
People Who? 

2353
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:15,800
Have a lot of bias, if not 
prejudice, if not trade up a 

2354
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:19,000
racism against the Dornish. 
So they're probably not going to

2355
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:20,640
give very good advice. 
Their advice might be tinged 

2356
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:22,240
with that. 
Oh well, we've been fighting my 

2357
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:24,920
Lord or my king, Your Grace. 
We've been fighting these people

2358
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:26,520
for thousands of years. 
Let me tell you a few things 

2359
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:27,960
about them. 
But then it's all just tinged 

2360
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:33,280
with through the lens of war and
and raids and back and forth and

2361
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:37,080
bitterness and and blood feuds 
and not a honest assessment. 

2362
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:39,720
Of what they're capable of. 
It's like all the Dornish 

2363
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:40,960
they're cowards. 
They always run away. 

2364
01:54:41,040 --> 01:54:42,280
That's why you should be 
worried. 

2365
01:54:42,280 --> 01:54:45,640
If they're not cowardly, the 
fact that they won't face you is

2366
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:47,160
a problem. 
If they if they're just going to

2367
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,440
line up and face you, then yeah,
then it will be easy because 

2368
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:52,600
you'll just burn them like you 
burned anyone else that dared 

2369
01:54:52,600 --> 01:54:54,640
face you head on. 
But they're not, and that's why 

2370
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:55,720
you should treat them 
differently. 

2371
01:54:56,240 --> 01:55:00,120
So yeah, Nina says This is why 
it's important not to read 

2372
01:55:00,120 --> 01:55:02,400
history backwards. 
That because Doran was 

2373
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:04,520
successful in resisting 
Targaryen conquest for nearly 

2374
01:55:04,520 --> 01:55:05,760
two centuries. 
The Targaryens. 

2375
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:07,800
Were stupid for trying in the 
1st place. 

2376
01:55:07,800 --> 01:55:10,400
No, it's not that simple. 
Yes, I think they made mistakes,

2377
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:13,720
but it's not like, like you 
said, Sean, in Aegon's defense, 

2378
01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:16,120
it did kind of seem like common 
sense to bend to me. 

2379
01:55:16,120 --> 01:55:18,600
Even though there's all this 
cultural separation, even though

2380
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:20,360
they're more stubborn, even 
though they value independence 

2381
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:26,240
more, it's still Valerian and 
all of Westeros outrayed against

2382
01:55:26,240 --> 01:55:28,200
them. 
That's still a lot to say. 

2383
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:30,120
We can beat that. 
We can stand up to that. 

2384
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:33,280
You know, like it's still common
sense still. 

2385
01:55:33,600 --> 01:55:35,560
The argument to bend the knee is
still very strong. 

2386
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:38,360
Like a lot of the arguments, a 
lot of the arguments you might 

2387
01:55:38,360 --> 01:55:42,880
use for why Dorn, quote UN 
quote, shouldn't have bent the 

2388
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:46,480
knee stand for Winterfell too. 
But Winterfell still bent the 

2389
01:55:46,480 --> 01:55:49,440
knee. 
So like the culture differences,

2390
01:55:49,440 --> 01:55:51,920
the history, the physical 
barrier, all this stuff. 

2391
01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:53,600
Yeah, Winterfell had all that 
too. 

2392
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:56,840
And they still bent the knees. 
And just from the Dorn's 

2393
01:55:56,840 --> 01:55:59,760
perspective, like maybe it was a
Maybe it was a bad idea to 

2394
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:01,440
resist. 
But they weren't wrong. 

2395
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:04,280
If they could stand up to the 
Dragons, they didn't beat the 

2396
01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:06,520
Dragons, but the Dragons didn't 
beat them either. 

2397
01:56:06,520 --> 01:56:09,520
I mean, Daron the first came in 
later and conquered them for a 

2398
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:12,320
few years, but that was also 
without actual Dragons. 

2399
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:16,160
That was regular military. 
So yeah. 

2400
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:20,640
So again, I think comparing them
to the free folk makes a lot of 

2401
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:23,960
sense. 
Very hard to subjugate, not pop.

2402
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:25,360
They don't have population 
centers. 

2403
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:28,160
The way they fight makes them 
less vulnerable. 

2404
01:56:29,320 --> 01:56:31,480
They're the they're the Dornish 
of the North or the they're the 

2405
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:33,680
free folk of the South. 
Whoever you want to say it. 

2406
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:38,120
And also like if you think about
this Westerosi to fight Dragons,

2407
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:40,600
they would have to adapt. 
They're bad at adapting. 

2408
01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:43,760
They're just not. 
They just do things the way 

2409
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:45,560
they've always done them. 
You know, Westeros is very 

2410
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:48,160
conservative in that regard. 
They just, it's like if it 

2411
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:50,040
worked before, do it again. 
Even though if everything is 

2412
01:56:50,040 --> 01:56:52,920
different, you know, still do 
the things that we've always 

2413
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:54,720
done. 
Dorn's not quite the same. 

2414
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,800
He was right to predict that. 
The rest of Westeros would kind 

2415
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:00,880
of do what they've always done 
and that that wouldn't work. 

2416
01:57:00,880 --> 01:57:04,760
But Doran also did what it 
always has done, and it did work

2417
01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:08,520
to A to AI was going to bring a 
counterpoint there too, that 

2418
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:13,040
it's not so much that they're 
not good at adapting, is it? 

2419
01:57:13,040 --> 01:57:16,360
They are more established. 
Doran is less established. 

2420
01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:18,360
They don't have big cities, 
right? 

2421
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:21,920
Once you have a big city, I 
guess it's harder to adapt, but 

2422
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:26,440
it's because you already made 
adaptations in ways that cause 

2423
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:30,680
your society to thrive, right? 
Dorn isn't thriving. 

2424
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:33,400
They haven't built a great set. 
They don't have a citadel. 

2425
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:35,560
They don't have. 
Eventually they build water 

2426
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:39,800
gardens, but hundreds of years 
late, you know, I'm just saying 

2427
01:57:39,800 --> 01:57:41,200
that they don't. 
It's kind of like we said 

2428
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:42,520
before, they don't have as much 
to lose. 

2429
01:57:42,520 --> 01:57:44,120
They don't have these big 
population centers. 

2430
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:46,280
They don't have fields of wheat 
or whatever else. 

2431
01:57:46,280 --> 01:57:48,000
Yeah, that's very true. 
And they have caves. 

2432
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:50,240
It's easier for them to adapt 
when they don't have as much to 

2433
01:57:50,240 --> 01:57:53,160
lose, yeah, yeah. 
Like remember how? 

2434
01:57:54,440 --> 01:57:58,160
It was difficult for Damon to 
defeat the crab feeder in both 

2435
01:57:58,160 --> 01:58:00,480
book and show version because 
they could hide you in caves. 

2436
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:03,320
That's a very good place to hide
from a dragon. 

2437
01:58:04,600 --> 01:58:06,760
Caves, like Dragons, can't 
follow you into a cave. 

2438
01:58:06,760 --> 01:58:09,200
It's a good adaptation. 
But you're living in a cave, 

2439
01:58:09,600 --> 01:58:11,480
right? 
Yeah. 

2440
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:14,320
Yeah, it's not good but it will 
keep you alive. 

2441
01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:16,280
At least it's a good place to 
hide, but it's a great it's not 

2442
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:18,680
a good long term solution, but 
it absolutely works in a pinch 

2443
01:58:18,920 --> 01:58:21,240
And and the red mounds are full 
of caves like not all of Dorne 

2444
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:23,680
is full of caves because a lot 
of it's desert and or waterways 

2445
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:26,280
or whatever, but the places that
have mountains it's a good place

2446
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:28,880
to hide and so at least it 
works. 

2447
01:58:29,440 --> 01:58:31,160
In this, it's better than 
burning to death, that's for 

2448
01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:32,960
sure. 
Another angle I want to take to 

2449
01:58:32,960 --> 01:58:35,600
make it again. 
Again, I'm presenting A 

2450
01:58:35,600 --> 01:58:38,320
counterpoint, but it's kind of 
like saying it, especially given

2451
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:40,880
how sudden it was for a dragon 
to show up. 

2452
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:44,840
It's kind of like saying Japan 
wasn't good at adapting to the 

2453
01:58:44,840 --> 01:58:46,680
nuclear bomb. 
It's like, yeah, no one's good 

2454
01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:51,440
at adapting to the nuclear bomb.
I guess it could have all fled 

2455
01:58:51,440 --> 01:58:55,320
the city, lived out in the woods
and had crappy lives, and that 

2456
01:58:55,320 --> 01:58:59,360
would have been a way to adapt. 
But yeah, we're not good at 

2457
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:01,760
adapting nuclear bombs. 
If someone drops a nuclear bomb 

2458
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:04,320
on New York, the argument isn't 
well, America's not good at 

2459
01:59:04,320 --> 01:59:05,640
adapting. 
You know, Like, no, it's just 

2460
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:07,040
nuclear. 
Bombs are hard to adapt to. 

2461
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:14,760
So that's a big consideration 
here too, like when we hear 

2462
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:16,760
about Aegon prior to the 
Conquest. 

2463
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:20,320
And there's that note in the 
book that says some believe 

2464
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:23,160
Aegon had never left Dragonstone
before the Conquest. 

2465
01:59:23,160 --> 01:59:25,160
But that's not true because we 
know about him going to 

2466
01:59:25,160 --> 01:59:28,560
Lannisport and. 
Hawking on the Arbor and other 

2467
01:59:28,560 --> 01:59:30,920
things. 
None of those mentions are of 

2468
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:34,920
him going to Dorne, which 
possibly feeds the theory that 

2469
01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:39,000
he had misconceptions about it, 
about how their what their 

2470
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:40,360
culture was like. 
He may have thought it was more 

2471
01:59:40,360 --> 01:59:43,480
similar than it was, or more 
different than it was, or who 

2472
01:59:43,480 --> 01:59:46,560
knows? 
Again, the hearing about them 

2473
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:51,160
through the reach in the 
Stormlands might have got given 

2474
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:53,680
him the wrong idea and he didn't
know how. 

2475
01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:56,000
He didn't know better himself by
it, not having gone there. 

2476
01:59:56,320 --> 01:59:57,960
So yeah, that's, I think that's 
pretty important. 

2477
01:59:58,040 --> 01:59:59,840
So and of course as we said 
before, like you said about the 

2478
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:02,840
big city thing too, even if they
had a big city, they would be 

2479
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:04,640
reluctant to destroy that 
because they want to roll it 

2480
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:06,080
afterwards. 
They don't necessarily want to 

2481
02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:07,640
torch it. 
It still would be kind of a last

2482
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:11,520
resort that it's a last resort 
we're almost going to see. 

2483
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:15,040
So it's going to show how bad 
this war gets. 

2484
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:18,360
They're not going to torch the 
Shadow City or Sunspear, but 

2485
02:00:18,360 --> 02:00:21,760
almost everything else is going 
to be that is going to happen. 

2486
02:00:21,760 --> 02:00:23,760
So they're going to, Aegon is 
going to show. 

2487
02:00:24,600 --> 02:00:28,720
Well if I it is in his 
wheelhouse like I will I can go 

2488
02:00:28,720 --> 02:00:31,120
that far. 
You know he he doesn't want to 

2489
02:00:31,120 --> 02:00:32,800
necessarily. 
But it's it's almost like the 

2490
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:35,440
don't make me do it kind of 
things like well, no one's 

2491
02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:39,360
making you do it, but it is that
is the threat that he's making 

2492
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:42,240
like if you if you quote UN 
quote make me do this, I will do

2493
02:00:42,240 --> 02:00:43,240
it. 
And you know I'm capable. 

2494
02:00:43,240 --> 02:00:44,680
You've seen my dragon and you 
know what? 

2495
02:00:44,680 --> 02:00:46,800
It's capable. 
Of, you know, you know, I had a 

2496
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:48,840
thought in here that I'm adding 
to. 

2497
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:51,600
It's occurred to me something I 
brought up in the past episode. 

2498
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:53,480
Is it? 
Remember, Aegon did intend to go

2499
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:57,560
down to door more quickly, but 
stop to go confront Torn. 

2500
02:00:57,600 --> 02:00:59,000
Yes. 
What if, Aegon? 

2501
02:00:59,000 --> 02:00:59,640
What if? 
What if? 

2502
02:00:59,640 --> 02:01:03,160
Right after burning Harren Hall.
Yeah, Aegon had gone down to 

2503
02:01:03,160 --> 02:01:04,520
Dorne. 
Where? 

2504
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:06,960
One, they might not have had as 
much time to come up with a 

2505
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:09,000
plan. 
And two, Harren Hall burning 

2506
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:10,920
would have been the story Right 
now. 

2507
02:01:10,920 --> 02:01:13,440
This story is he burned Harren 
Hall. 

2508
02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:15,800
But then did he burn Old Town? 
No. 

2509
02:01:15,800 --> 02:01:16,760
Did he burn the Reach? 
No. 

2510
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:17,440
Winterfell. 
No. 

2511
02:01:18,040 --> 02:01:20,120
No. 
It's kind of moved past the 

2512
02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:22,440
burning cities down thing, huh? 
Maybe. 

2513
02:01:22,440 --> 02:01:24,200
Maybe he won't burn down 
Sunspear. 

2514
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:26,200
Maybe he won't scorched earth. 
Us he. 

2515
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:30,640
You know, maybe they're kind of 
taking advantage of what I think

2516
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:34,040
was correct for Aegon to not 
have the Scorchers policy, but 

2517
02:01:34,040 --> 02:01:36,520
once they realized that, like, 
let's just leave the cities. 

2518
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:39,080
He's got no one to conquer. 
I don't think he's going to burn

2519
02:01:39,080 --> 02:01:40,680
him down. 
It's not what he's doing right. 

2520
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:42,680
Like eventually he shifts gears,
but. 

2521
02:01:43,280 --> 02:01:45,680
But that might add to why they 
did it just doesn't ring as. 

2522
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:49,440
Loudly did what they did and it 
and why it might have gone so 

2523
02:01:49,440 --> 02:01:51,880
much differently if he had been 
able to go straight there after 

2524
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:53,960
Harrenhal instead of dealing 
with the North and a field of 

2525
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:56,480
fire and everything first. 
That's a good point. 

2526
02:01:57,440 --> 02:02:00,200
Yeah, and Harrenhal is just a 
much bigger, bigger, better 

2527
02:02:00,200 --> 02:02:03,920
example too, because it's so 
centrally located, so huge, like

2528
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:06,360
destroying one of the Dornish 
castles, which is going to 

2529
02:02:06,360 --> 02:02:09,160
happen on multiples. 
It just doesn't have that same 

2530
02:02:09,160 --> 02:02:11,000
effect on the rest of the 
country, especially because the 

2531
02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:13,120
rest of the country's already 
submitted at this point besides 

2532
02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:15,680
Doran. 
So yeah, that episode, that 

2533
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:17,960
episode, that lesson doesn't 
ring as loudly. 

2534
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:19,800
It doesn't. 
Nor does it stand the test of 

2535
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:22,760
time. 
Like, we don't hear about all 

2536
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:24,960
the burned castles in Doran to 
this day, even though they were 

2537
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:26,960
burned, even some of them were. 
We don't hear about all the 

2538
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:29,120
lasting damage and how that 
serves as an example because 

2539
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:30,800
they're so they're all 
relatively remote. 

2540
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:34,920
Like the story Song of Ice and 
Fire doesn't go there except for

2541
02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:37,080
a little bit with Ariana. 
And even then we don't see the 

2542
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:39,560
evidence of this destruction. 
It's all, I guess, been rebuilt 

2543
02:02:39,560 --> 02:02:41,000
or. 
And and one other piece that we 

2544
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:44,880
brought up before too is it. 
If he had gone straight to Dorne

2545
02:02:45,280 --> 02:02:47,400
in a weird way, they might have 
felt like. 

2546
02:02:48,520 --> 02:02:53,320
We're the next most important. 
He came to us, so we respected 

2547
02:02:53,320 --> 02:02:55,440
Okay. 
We'll but when he saves him for 

2548
02:02:55,440 --> 02:02:58,560
a last, like, screw you, man. 
Yeah, you're not going to burn 

2549
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:01,600
us down anyway, you know? 
And they ended up getting 

2550
02:03:01,600 --> 02:03:03,680
second, sort of second primary. 
I ended up being a problem for 

2551
02:03:03,680 --> 02:03:05,640
the other houses when eventually
they were brought in by 

2552
02:03:05,640 --> 02:03:08,360
marriage, they got concessions 
that the other regions didn't 

2553
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:10,880
and that was so they kind of 
like we did get second place. 

2554
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:13,520
Y'all the rest of y'all are 
behind us now because we get 

2555
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:16,400
better tax situation. 
We're the royal family all this.

2556
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,560
So, so it did kind of work out 
for them in that sense. 

2557
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:22,000
In the longer as a country as a 
nation holding out the fact that

2558
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:24,840
they were able to withstand the 
Dragons did get them a better 

2559
02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:26,440
deal, you know, almost 200 years
later. 

2560
02:03:26,440 --> 02:03:29,360
But it was a much better. 
Deal in the very long term. 

2561
02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:32,360
They might have ended up with a 
better deal in the long term. 

2562
02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:34,960
Also, if they kneeled right 
away, like if all their people 

2563
02:03:34,960 --> 02:03:37,160
hadn't, their homes hadn't been 
burned and everything. 

2564
02:03:37,160 --> 02:03:40,640
So that's also potentially true.
Yeah. 

2565
02:03:40,640 --> 02:03:41,840
Who? 
That's a really tough call. 

2566
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:43,880
Yeah. 
We have no idea what would have 

2567
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:47,280
been the outcome of that. 
And they went into it with a 

2568
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:48,840
different strategy because this 
is interesting too. 

2569
02:03:48,840 --> 02:03:51,560
Like they maybe because they saw
what happened or because it's 

2570
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:53,800
just naturally how they handle 
warfare. 

2571
02:03:54,000 --> 02:03:57,120
The Reach played to win. 
They played to beat Egon. 

2572
02:03:57,480 --> 02:04:00,120
The West played to beat Aegon. 
They wanted to kill him. 

2573
02:04:00,120 --> 02:04:03,240
They wanted to defeat him. 
They didn't, of course, but that

2574
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:05,000
was their goal. 
I'm not sure the Dorne, the 

2575
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:08,760
Dorne is trying to beat Aegon so
much as aim for a stalemate. 

2576
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:10,120
It's a totally different 
strategy. 

2577
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:12,680
They're trying to just turn him 
off of the idea of conquering 

2578
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:14,480
them rather than straight up 
beating him, like make it not 

2579
02:04:14,480 --> 02:04:19,200
worth it, rather than actually 
beat him, like actually defeat 

2580
02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:21,160
him in a pitch battle. 
That's they're not even going to

2581
02:04:21,160 --> 02:04:23,000
try to meet him in a pitch 
battle. 

2582
02:04:23,360 --> 02:04:26,040
But if they're going to win, 
it's going to be in an entirely 

2583
02:04:26,040 --> 02:04:27,800
different set of terms. 
But to me, it seems like they're

2584
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:30,480
less trying to win and just 
trying to not lose, which is 

2585
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:31,800
different. 
That's different. 

2586
02:04:31,960 --> 02:04:34,240
Playing for a stalemate is like,
if you go into a game of chess 

2587
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:38,640
aiming for a stalemate, the 
strategy is very different. 

2588
02:04:38,680 --> 02:04:44,160
I mean, it's rare that you would
want to do that, but there are 

2589
02:04:44,160 --> 02:04:46,920
times when you would like in a 
chess tournament maybe, and 

2590
02:04:46,920 --> 02:04:49,240
certain points matter more, like
you're just trying to finish 

2591
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:50,720
ahead of someone else to make a 
cut. 

2592
02:04:50,720 --> 02:04:53,440
I don't know. 
But yeah, warfare is similar in 

2593
02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:56,560
that the strategy you're taking 
determines a lot of how you 

2594
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:59,600
might win or lose and your 
opponent might mess up because 

2595
02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:01,640
they're thinking you're playing 
to win when you're not. 

2596
02:05:01,720 --> 02:05:03,320
And that screws up their 
strategy. 

2597
02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:05,760
So that's kind of interesting to
think about it from that sense. 

2598
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:07,760
I want to get too deep into 
chest, but time is a factor. 

2599
02:05:07,760 --> 02:05:10,000
Also, sometimes when there's 
only a there's always time 

2600
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:12,440
limits and if you get down to a 
certain amount of time. 

2601
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:15,840
Sometimes a person realizes that
there's not enough time to 

2602
02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:18,800
actually get a checkmate, wins 
because they start playing 

2603
02:05:18,800 --> 02:05:20,920
quicker and runs the other 
person out of time rather than 

2604
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:22,120
get a checkmate, if that makes 
sense. 

2605
02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:25,520
And in a way, you could argue 
time's a factor in War Two when 

2606
02:05:25,520 --> 02:05:28,480
it comes to like winter coming 
or supplies running out or. 

2607
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:32,800
And one other thought I had 
about this that hadn't 

2608
02:05:32,800 --> 02:05:34,640
encouraged me just now when you 
talk about going for a 

2609
02:05:34,640 --> 02:05:37,400
stalemate, is that George lived 
through Vietnam. 

2610
02:05:37,400 --> 02:05:39,800
He, you know, that's was sort of
Vietnam's technique. 

2611
02:05:39,800 --> 02:05:43,880
There they were. 
Way outclassing almost every 

2612
02:05:43,880 --> 02:05:47,880
factor, but they just hit away, 
you know they didn't. 

2613
02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:51,240
It was a different sort of 
battle than World War 2 or 

2614
02:05:51,240 --> 02:05:53,600
whatever. 
And then the the US couldn't 

2615
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:56,560
even fight. 
It had limitations how it could 

2616
02:05:56,560 --> 02:05:57,800
fight. 
Anyway, I could go on and on, 

2617
02:05:57,800 --> 02:06:00,200
but I think there's a lot of 
parallels here that I bet George

2618
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:01,560
had, at least in the back of his
mind. 

2619
02:06:01,560 --> 02:06:02,720
Yeah, you're right. 
No, that is a very good 

2620
02:06:02,720 --> 02:06:04,040
parallel. 
You're totally right. 

2621
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:08,360
Yeah, They used like the the the
parallel to caves is there with 

2622
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:10,920
tunnels. 
The the Vietcong made huge 

2623
02:06:10,920 --> 02:06:13,640
amounts of tunnels and that's 
like a a low tech but very 

2624
02:06:13,640 --> 02:06:18,040
effective thing that was just a 
terror to American soldiers as 

2625
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:19,920
well as. 
A lot of locals and we were 

2626
02:06:19,920 --> 02:06:22,440
napalming the heck out of their 
country. 

2627
02:06:22,440 --> 02:06:24,920
And yeah, like, which is part of
why they use tunnels, right. 

2628
02:06:24,920 --> 02:06:27,200
Because like, the napalm isn't 
going to get down in there and 

2629
02:06:27,200 --> 02:06:29,440
the same, like dragon fire can't
penetrate into the caves too 

2630
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:30,520
deeply. 
So yeah, that's a really, that's

2631
02:06:30,520 --> 02:06:35,760
a very good parallel. 
So, all right, so we'll call 

2632
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,160
that a wrap on our progress for 
today. 

2633
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:40,400
That's a good place to end with 
Dorne. 

2634
02:06:40,400 --> 02:06:44,320
When we come back to Dorne, it 
will be to discuss the outbreak,

2635
02:06:44,320 --> 02:06:46,320
the beginning of of 
negotiations, and then 

2636
02:06:46,320 --> 02:06:47,480
eventually the outbreak of 
hostilities. 

2637
02:06:47,480 --> 02:06:50,720
That's all going to happen under
the reign of the Dragon. 

2638
02:06:50,720 --> 02:06:53,880
We're basically out of the 
conquest phase now. 

2639
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:57,840
Technically, we could come back 
to Dorne if people vote on a 

2640
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,760
Dornish topic. 
Just say it if you're feeling 

2641
02:07:00,760 --> 02:07:04,400
Dorne. 
So yeah so like I said earlier 

2642
02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:07,760
in this episode we'll we'll be 
off of fire and blood for about 

2643
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:11,320
six or seven weeks, return right
before the beginning of 2024. 

2644
02:07:11,320 --> 02:07:13,640
In the meantime we will have a 
variety of other episodes. 

2645
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:16,520
So it's not a not a break from 
episodes, just a a break from 

2646
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:19,200
fire and blood. 
We've been down in the in the 

2647
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:21,920
trenches with Aegon and his 
sisters for a while and and 

2648
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:24,600
normally we like to mix things 
up with our topics a bit more 

2649
02:07:24,600 --> 02:07:25,640
than that. 
So let's do that. 

2650
02:07:25,640 --> 02:07:30,560
Let's not get too over focused 
on one part of what is such a 

2651
02:07:30,640 --> 02:07:35,760
vast and diverse selection that 
we have to choose from, but we 

2652
02:07:35,760 --> 02:07:39,400
will certainly pick it back up 
where we left off and have a lot

2653
02:07:39,400 --> 02:07:44,480
of fun with that as well. 
So let's work our way out here. 

2654
02:07:45,000 --> 02:07:47,320
Couple of bits from Julie A. 
She says, plus the oral 

2655
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:48,960
traditions from the descendants 
of the Roinar. 

2656
02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:51,480
They'd have passed down stories 
of escaping Dragons and Valyrian

2657
02:07:51,480 --> 02:07:54,000
times and the assumption it's 
possible would be known that's 

2658
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:56,280
true. 
They have proven in their 

2659
02:07:56,280 --> 02:08:01,600
history that they could outlast 
or survive the Dragons, even 

2660
02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:05,120
though they didn't beat them. 
They weren't beaten by them 

2661
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:06,280
either. 
They escaped them. 

2662
02:08:06,280 --> 02:08:08,840
They weren't, they weren't 
enslaved, they weren't killed. 

2663
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:13,000
Well, a lot of them were, but as
a as a race they they weren't as

2664
02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:17,640
a yeah and Julia again says ver,
PBS or per PBS. 

2665
02:08:17,920 --> 02:08:20,320
Leopards are the only known 
species that live in desert and 

2666
02:08:20,320 --> 02:08:22,240
rainforests of of big cats I 
assume. 

2667
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:24,200
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, no, I think it might be. 

2668
02:08:24,200 --> 02:08:26,160
It might be mammals. 
I don't know. 

2669
02:08:27,880 --> 02:08:30,000
But because someone else, they 
live in both desert and. 

2670
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:30,840
Rainforest. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2671
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:33,960
Oh, the combination of the two. 
Because lions live in deserts 

2672
02:08:33,960 --> 02:08:35,720
but not rainforests. 
Yeah, I see. 

2673
02:08:35,720 --> 02:08:36,640
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

2674
02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:39,040
That is interesting. 
That is a very different. 

2675
02:08:39,160 --> 02:08:41,520
Yeah, I'm sure, like, Panthers 
live in, you know, like Panthers

2676
02:08:41,520 --> 02:08:43,080
might live in rainforests, but 
not. 

2677
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:45,760
The desert invites that guy. 
Yeah, I was like, oh, I can't 

2678
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:48,640
think of any other like mammals 
that like elephants don't. 

2679
02:08:48,640 --> 02:08:50,960
I can think of 1 immediately. 
I bet there's others. 

2680
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:53,320
Humans, yeah. 
Yeah, that's what someone said 

2681
02:08:53,320 --> 02:08:56,200
immediately with humans, but we 
were clearly speaking might be. 

2682
02:08:56,200 --> 02:08:58,920
Species of cats. 
I mean, there might be some bird

2683
02:08:58,920 --> 02:08:59,880
species, but it would probably 
be. 

2684
02:08:59,880 --> 02:09:01,040
There's probably difference in 
that bird. 

2685
02:09:01,040 --> 02:09:02,840
Just like this is a leopard. 
It's not the same as a cheetah, 

2686
02:09:02,840 --> 02:09:04,320
but they're related, so that's 
neat. 

2687
02:09:04,360 --> 02:09:06,960
That's very neat. 
All right, the the trivia 

2688
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:11,280
question again was who gave 
Miria her nickname, the Yellow 

2689
02:09:11,280 --> 02:09:13,960
toad? 
The answer is Argyllac the 

2690
02:09:13,960 --> 02:09:18,600
arrogant, as was reminded in the
quote, one of the quotes that we

2691
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:20,640
read today. 
That's right. 

2692
02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:22,840
So next week, I don't know what 
our episode will be. 

2693
02:09:22,840 --> 02:09:25,000
Next week we're going to be 
posting a poll. 

2694
02:09:25,040 --> 02:09:28,520
So it will be a surprise. 
And if you want to participate 

2695
02:09:28,520 --> 02:09:32,240
in the poll and future polls, 
well, sign up for our Patreon 

2696
02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:37,640
and get not only that, but bonus
episodes and lots of other 

2697
02:09:37,640 --> 02:09:39,800
benefits that come with your 
support. 

2698
02:09:40,080 --> 02:09:43,600
You give us support and we give 
you bonus content. 

2699
02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:44,680
And my question for you is 
these. 

2700
02:09:44,680 --> 02:09:47,000
Do you know the the poll topics 
yet? 

2701
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:48,600
Not yet. 
Interesting. 

2702
02:09:48,640 --> 02:09:51,880
OK, well I was planning on doing
them last night, but I've been 

2703
02:09:51,880 --> 02:09:54,440
sick this week and my energy 
level has been terrible. 

2704
02:09:54,440 --> 02:09:56,520
I feel pretty good today. 
I think it might be finally over

2705
02:09:56,520 --> 02:09:57,560
it. 
But yeah you're you're you're 

2706
02:09:57,600 --> 02:09:59,760
you're seeing a lot but whether 
you just turned it on for the 

2707
02:09:59,760 --> 02:10:02,640
stream and like we might stop 
recording a disease just like 

2708
02:10:02,640 --> 02:10:06,880
deflates and stealing the. 
But your energy level seems 

2709
02:10:06,920 --> 02:10:08,600
better. 
Your mood and everything. 

2710
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:10,120
I do always get hyped up for the
stream. 

2711
02:10:10,120 --> 02:10:11,480
I do love that. 
And I do have. 

2712
02:10:11,480 --> 02:10:13,280
I do have a coffee, yes, but yes
I do. 

2713
02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:17,280
I do tend to pour all my energy 
into these live streams. 

2714
02:10:17,880 --> 02:10:21,000
Lollatop points out there are 
also Siberian leopards and urban

2715
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:22,120
leopards, too. 
Whoa. 

2716
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:25,200
Well, this episode is over. 
But if you want to stay immersed

2717
02:10:25,200 --> 02:10:28,680
in Westeros or Essos in Martin 
World, whatever your name for 

2718
02:10:28,680 --> 02:10:33,400
it, we've got some suggestions. 
A couple of Patreon episodes, 

2719
02:10:33,400 --> 02:10:36,000
The Last Storm, which is a part 
of the conquest you may not have

2720
02:10:36,000 --> 02:10:40,800
heard that we did separately and
had a Jim Mcgean, our military 

2721
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:43,040
expert in to be our helper 
there. 

2722
02:10:43,760 --> 02:10:47,560
The Red Kraken episode, The Red 
Krakens run takes place during 

2723
02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:50,000
the Dance of the Dragons, but 
it's a separate story, doesn't 

2724
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:52,600
really have a whole whole lot 
directly to do with the actual 

2725
02:10:52,600 --> 02:10:54,760
events of the dance. 
It's more of a Side Story. 

2726
02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:59,040
So we covered it separately, and
in that episode there's a lot of

2727
02:10:59,040 --> 02:11:00,840
the same things we talked about 
here about what's going on. 

2728
02:11:00,840 --> 02:11:05,240
The Ironborn, the Red Kraken was
the first one to bring the old 

2729
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:08,280
way back. 
Of the many people who brought 

2730
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:10,360
it back, who tried to bring it 
back, the Red Kraken was the 

2731
02:11:10,360 --> 02:11:12,640
first one to actually do it, and
he was more successful than even

2732
02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:14,800
a lot of the ones that did it 
later, with the possible 

2733
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:16,760
exception of Euron, which is 
still ongoing. 

2734
02:11:17,120 --> 02:11:18,440
So we'll have to wait and see on
that. 

2735
02:11:18,760 --> 02:11:22,640
But the Red Kraken was 
enormously successful, and he 

2736
02:11:22,640 --> 02:11:28,480
had a political mind several 
levels beyond most ironborn. 

2737
02:11:28,480 --> 02:11:32,560
He understood the politics of 
the realm and how the blacks and

2738
02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:34,840
Greens would go at each other. 
In a lot of ways, that was very 

2739
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:36,120
savvy. 
He played them. 

2740
02:11:36,120 --> 02:11:38,400
He he managed to play them off 
each other a little bit and get 

2741
02:11:38,400 --> 02:11:42,200
the best deal for himself. 
Which enabled him of course to 

2742
02:11:42,200 --> 02:11:45,800
go a reaving and raiding and 
plundering and taking of many 

2743
02:11:45,800 --> 02:11:49,880
salt Wives. 
And how the West resisted him 

2744
02:11:49,880 --> 02:11:52,520
and how that all went, and how 
the old, the return of the old 

2745
02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:55,320
way and how important that was 
the Iron Born and how ready they

2746
02:11:55,320 --> 02:11:58,360
were to be unleashed again. 
And why that made things so 

2747
02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:02,080
bloody. 
That's well why that episode is 

2748
02:12:02,480 --> 02:12:05,680
fun and it was Co written by 
Radio Estra so there's an extra 

2749
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:09,640
benefit to that as well. 
All right as well, our Nymeria 

2750
02:12:09,640 --> 02:12:11,560
series, of course we talked 
about Nymeria quite a bit in 

2751
02:12:11,560 --> 02:12:12,920
this one. 
This might be a good time for 

2752
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:15,960
you all to head back to that 
pair of episodes. 

2753
02:12:16,120 --> 02:12:18,920
We still have a third part of 
that series that we are many 

2754
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:20,600
years behind. 
On one day we'll get to it. 

2755
02:12:21,360 --> 02:12:22,800
But we covered all of her 
journey. 

2756
02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:26,920
We covered everything in Valyria
and Sithorios on all the 

2757
02:12:26,920 --> 02:12:28,400
different trips to different 
islands. 

2758
02:12:28,520 --> 02:12:32,240
But we didn't cover what 
happened when she got to Dorne. 

2759
02:12:32,240 --> 02:12:35,160
So one day we're going to do 
that, and that'll be fun to to 

2760
02:12:35,160 --> 02:12:38,640
finish. 
But we got those first two for 

2761
02:12:38,640 --> 02:12:40,400
you, and I think you'll enjoy 
them even if you've heard them 

2762
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:41,120
already. 
Yeah. 

2763
02:12:41,120 --> 02:12:44,000
Yeah, also of course our 
episodes before the Dragons, 

2764
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:46,840
under the Dragons on the episode
on Valerian, the episode on 

2765
02:12:46,840 --> 02:12:49,400
Dragonstone, the episode on 
House Valerian and House 

2766
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:51,240
Celtagar. 
Those will be pretty big. 

2767
02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:54,520
And of course the episode on the
Century of Blood, a lot of stuff

2768
02:12:54,520 --> 02:12:56,200
that takes place right before 
the conquest. 

2769
02:12:56,680 --> 02:12:58,960
And of course our episode on 
Mantaris, which is another 

2770
02:12:58,960 --> 02:13:03,600
patrons only episode that 
discusses blood magic and 

2771
02:13:03,920 --> 02:13:08,640
strange doings in the east and 
fall out from the Doom. 

2772
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,680
Lots of cool stuff there. 
I'm very happy with those 

2773
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:14,760
episodes and I hope you are too.
It's like it's. 

2774
02:13:14,760 --> 02:13:17,600
I'm really trying to vamp here 
to give it time for Sean to get 

2775
02:13:17,600 --> 02:13:21,240
a cat and it looks like. 
Well, I can say something here. 

2776
02:13:21,560 --> 02:13:25,960
One we just got a super chat 
from a long, expected 

2777
02:13:25,960 --> 02:13:27,600
soundscape. 
Oh, hey, Jordan. 

2778
02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:31,560
How's it going? 
Jordan is working on, oh, we got

2779
02:13:31,560 --> 02:13:33,440
a cat now. 
He's working on Duncan Egg, 

2780
02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:35,680
correct? 
Yeah, he's working on Duncan 

2781
02:13:35,680 --> 02:13:38,120
Egg. 
That's pretty cool, which is one

2782
02:13:38,120 --> 02:13:41,600
of the things we'll discuss when
we have our TV show roundup 

2783
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:43,200
episode. 
We'll discuss where the Dunkin 

2784
02:13:43,200 --> 02:13:46,000
Egg show is proceeding, and of 
course House the Dragon and and 

2785
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:48,080
other news related to those two 
shows and other stuff. 

2786
02:13:48,440 --> 02:13:52,720
I also feel obliged to tell 
everyone we were supposed to go 

2787
02:13:52,720 --> 02:13:57,120
to the corn maze on Thursday, 
but Aziz, obviously he just said

2788
02:13:57,120 --> 02:13:58,640
he was sick this week, so we did
it. 

2789
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:01,280
But we're going to go tomorrow. 
It's still open, just barely. 

2790
02:14:01,280 --> 02:14:03,720
There's only a little bit of 
time before they harvest the 

2791
02:14:03,720 --> 02:14:06,040
corn. 
Oh, look at the Kitty though. 

2792
02:14:06,160 --> 02:14:08,240
It's been Cora a bunch lately, 
huh, Sean? 

2793
02:14:08,240 --> 02:14:11,400
She's just the most amenable to 
being grabbed. 

2794
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:12,840
And to stay in place you know 
to. 

2795
02:14:13,760 --> 02:14:17,200
Stay in place and locked in her 
as she Cora. 

2796
02:14:17,480 --> 02:14:20,760
Yeah, so, so the wee leopard. 
Yeah, the brown leopard. 

2797
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:22,600
Well, thanks everyone for coming
today. 

2798
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:26,840
Thanks to those of you who 
support us, either on Patreon or

2799
02:14:26,840 --> 02:14:29,440
Spotify or through PayPal. 
Our website contains all the 

2800
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:31,840
ways that you can do that. 
All the ways you can find links 

2801
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:34,440
to our other episodes, All the 
ways you can find links to 

2802
02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:38,840
anything, any sponsor or product
or item that we pointed you to, 

2803
02:14:38,840 --> 02:14:42,400
whether it's other books or 
other series or other episodes 

2804
02:14:42,400 --> 02:14:43,920
of ours. 
You can find it all at 

2805
02:14:43,920 --> 02:14:47,360
historywesteros.com. 
Thanks to Nina for her great 

2806
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:50,120
notes, lots of valuable insight 
and input. 

2807
02:14:50,360 --> 02:14:53,800
And to the the politics and the 
marriages and the writing 

2808
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:56,360
process. 
This a lot of things I've talked

2809
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:59,000
to her about ahead of writing 
things, so it's even some of the

2810
02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:01,640
things I've written were 
influenced by her, so can't 

2811
02:15:01,640 --> 02:15:04,360
thank her enough. 
Joey, Jessie, Bran and Michael, 

2812
02:15:04,360 --> 02:15:08,600
you two, you 4, you as well, not
22 TOO. 

2813
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:10,960
You two as well have done great 
things for us. 

2814
02:15:11,120 --> 02:15:14,960
And I want to thank you for the 
music, for the maps, for the 

2815
02:15:14,960 --> 02:15:16,880
intro. 
Y'all are great. 

2816
02:15:16,920 --> 02:15:20,640
Our show feels so professional 
because of y'all, and to our 

2817
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:24,240
Benjineer giving us sound 
quality assistance here and 

2818
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:26,680
there, and occasionally 
everywhere. 

2819
02:15:27,280 --> 02:15:30,840
We must as well. 
Thank you for that, and to the 

2820
02:15:30,840 --> 02:15:34,680
rest of you for listening. 
We appreciate it and we'll be 

2821
02:15:34,680 --> 02:15:37,520
back with more next time you 
know what to do. 

2822
02:15:37,720 --> 02:15:48,880
Until then, LR Rereadus the.