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Hello and welcome back 
everybody. 

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We've got a lot of season 2 yet 
to come that will likely 

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surprise us, and there's a lot 
of details yet to analyze and 

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geek out on, but we do have a 
rough kind of basic idea of the 

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framework for the rest of the 
season. 

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Like I said, rough. 
Not entirely, but a decent idea 

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given castings and book spoilers
and reading between the lines 

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and all that. 
Comments from Kondal and Hass, 

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etcetera. 
So we thought it'd be fun to 

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look a little farther ahead 
outside the scope of the 

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currently accessible advance 
info, but also to consider a 

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look at the season. 
We're going to take a lot of 

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questions today, prioritizing 
those from season three. 

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But honestly, we'll answer just 
about anything as long as it's a

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good question. 
No hard and fast rules here. 

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And we've got a special guest to
help us out with that. 

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We're going to get into the the 
meat of it and get to a lot of 

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details and a lot of macro 
looks. 

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All that and more on this 
episode of History of Westeros 

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Podcast. 
Welcome back everybody. 

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It's another Wednesday deep 
dive. 

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This isn't such a deep dive 
specific topic as it is a deep 

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dive into a lot of different 
areas around the the season and 

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into next season. 
A lot of theories, a lot of 

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questions sent in by you all and
some questions that we've come 

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up, things that have been on our
mind that we want to discuss 

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with y'all. 
Every Monday. 

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We're here with spoiler free 
episodes. 

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Lot of these Wednesdays at 7 we 
have episodes and Saturdays at 

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three we have our preview 
spoiler filled episodes where we

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talk about everything that's to 
come. 

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But we never have leaks. 
Never ever. 

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No leaks. 
And we have game streams at six 

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on Fridays over at twitch.tv. 
History of Westeros. 

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Welcome back to the show, Jason 
Concepcion and Jason the 

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maester. 
How's it going, my man? 

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What's been going on, you guys 
are you guys are killing it over

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there on the official Hot D 
podcast and over on X-ray 

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Visions as well. 
I appreciate it. 

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Just continuing to churn out the
content and really just loving 

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the calendar right now. 
There's so many, you know, just 

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House of the Dragon in full 
swing. 

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It's been really enjoyable and 
just getting to talk to you. 

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Hell yeah. 
Wonderful. 

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Thank you for thank you for 
inviting me. 

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You're welcome. 
We always love to have you on. 

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We've had many great chats and 
in fact, one of the questions we

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got today refers to something we
talked about last time, so 

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that's fun. 
If you are in the New York area 

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or will be in the New York area 
around August 3rd or on August 

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3rd, come visit us at City 
Winery, Manhattan, NY, the 

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Chelsea location. 
We are going to be doing a live 

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podcast there just in advance of
the final episode, Saturday, 

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August 3rd, talking about the 
season, recapping with a few 

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theories for the final episode. 
Be a lot of fun. 

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Drink some wine. 
We're going to have bottles of 

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wine with History of Westeros 
logo on it. 

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That's pretty cool. 
We've never had anything like 

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that before. 
So you're going to want to come 

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and get one of those because 
we're not going to have many of 

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them and just hang hanging out 
with us and talking about the 

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season is by itself going to be 
a blast. 

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So I hope we can see you there. 
Tickets are available in the 

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link description there. 
And what is that link again, 

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Shaya? 
You can say it out loud. 

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Bit dot LY slash how live NYC Or
you can just go to our website 

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and go to the sidebar. 
Right on. 

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Thanks, Shaya. 
Couple of questions jumping out 

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at us right away. 
We got modest jaundice now 

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that's quite a name. 
Joe and Jason nearly 

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back-to-back. 
We are so lucky. 

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Thanks. 
Yeah, that's right. 

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We had Joanna Robinson on. 
Now, Jason, we got all these 

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heavy hitters coming through. 
I appreciate that modest 

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jaundice for my people. 
Says how's the view from that 

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window in your prison looking 
now, Allison, to it? 

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Rainey's probably. 
Yes. 

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Ghost of Rainey's totally. 
Yeah, that is. 

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That's a good take there. 
Yeah. 

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She's really regretting that, 
that that prison window has been

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shut. 
And Dom Tartaglia, a shout out 

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to Folkwise podcast, says I see 
that slab copy of Uncanny X-Men 

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141. 
Jason, let's go. 

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A classic and as Stone Cold 
classic. 

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Which one is that? 
I'm not as familiar with my 

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X-Men lore. 21 That's Days of 
Future Past stuff, the iconic 

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wanted poster that has been 
copied so many times. 

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John Byrne on the cover art and 
the art inside as well. 

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Oh is that like related to the 
the Sentinels and all that stuff

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in the future? 
It's like an alternate future 

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where the Sentinels basically 
have one and all the X-Men have 

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been wiped out and the mutants 
have been thrown into camps and 

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are haunted down. 
I do remember some of that. 

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I I remember reading some of 
that a long time back. 

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That was good content. 
That was good stuff. 

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Yeah. 
All right, well, let's get into 

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the Westeros content. 
Dragon seeds. 

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Let's talk about dragon seeds. 
It's one of the most exciting 

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things that we have left in 
season 2. 

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The red sowing, AKA the sowing 
of the seeds, AKA new dragon 

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riders who are not named 
Targaryen. 

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That from our our show only 
friend was like, oh, like that 

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Yeah, that's cool. 
That's exciting. 

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It's just something that didn't 
initially see coming. 

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And the reason we want to talk 
about it, even though it's about

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to start happening in the show. 
And I said, hey, let's talk 

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about season three. 
Well, this is not a short term 

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plot development. 
This isn't going to be a one and

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done. 
Like one or two people ride a 

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dragon, then they die and then 
that's it. 

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No MO Dragons, MO problems. 
This is going to be a part of 

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the story till the very end. 
In fact, some of these seeds 

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might well, unless they change 
things around, which is 

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possible, will outlive a lot of 
the main characters in the book.

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They do can happen. 
We'll see. 

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So my first question that we 
should talk about here, Jason, I

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think is a good one. 
We first we have a dead dragon 

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paraded through the streets now.
Now we have like non Targaryens 

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and maybe even bastards riding 
Dragons. 

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Like, that's just a the mystique
is just getting torched here, 

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isn't it? 
Yeah, I think that that is a 

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cost that will be paid. 
And it's unclear for either side

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what the effect of that will be.
You know, the the Targaryen 

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right to rule is based in large 
part on the premise that they 

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can control Dragons and nobody 
else can. 

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And that's the most powerful 
force there is in this world. 

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Now, if you start saying, you 
know, as as Renira and Jace are 

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discussing at the end of this 
episode, but what if, what if we

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find somebody else? 
What if, what if there's some 

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other, you know, obviously 
Targaryens intermingled with 

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lots of different folks of noble
birth they're talking about 

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right now, You know, what if we 
put a Tarly or a Darklin or a, 

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you know, a Tully on a dragon? 
What would that mean? 

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Well, I think it would mean that
some people, as we see at the 

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beginning of this episode, when 
people see the Dragons can die, 

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would start to wonder if 
Targaryens are all that special 

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anyway. 
Hold on. 

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Are they really? 
What would what would the result

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of this be? 
It's unclear. 

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And I think what's really 
fascinating to me is like this 

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is a real this is a true 
revolutionary act. 

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Like, you know, Daenerys talked 
about breaking the wheel. 

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This is breaking the this is it.
This is truly doing. 

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This is overturning like the 
social structure in a really 

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serious way. 
And that can't help but be 

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destabilizing, even though I 
think if you're Ranira, it's a 

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necessary step because what are 
you going to do? 

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You're going to risk yourself, 
You're going to risk Chase, 

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you're going to risk some other 
important person or lost 

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Rainey's who's someone who 
cannot be replaced. 

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So we've got to find some folks 
for these Dragons. 

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And hopefully they're folks that
they can trust and hopefully 

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they are folks that won't 'cause
too much destabilization in the 

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realm, both from the noble 
houses who are going to say, 

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hey, wait a second, what the why
is this person on Dragon all of 

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a sudden? 
And from the small folk who go, 

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wait a second, I thought only 
Turgans could do this. 

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What? 
What does that mean? 

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So it's very interesting times 
ahead. 

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I totally agree. 
That was very well said. 

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And one of the one things, one 
thing I'll add to that is that 

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you have this culture that is 
very used to getting what it 

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wants because it has this 
advantage that no one else has. 

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And like you said, if it spreads
around and everybody can have it

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or more people can have it, then
they start looking like maybe 

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this Targaryen authority isn't 
what it should be. 

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Maybe they maybe we don't need 
to be in awe of them like we 

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have been. 
And if the more of them will 

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start dying too, that's, that's 
going to get pile on even 

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higher. 
And then to add on, on the top 

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of all of that, you have the 
issue of war, making people make

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the worst decisions. 
Like, well, we have to continue 

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to sell out our ethics because 
we don't want to die. 

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And both sides are, like you 
said, both sides are faced with 

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that. 
And it just escalates from 

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there. 
But we have these normal people,

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these sort of everyday folks 
that might be involved. 

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They have a lot of different 
pressures on them and 

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upbringings, and they've never 
wielded power necessarily. 

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And it's going to be really 
interesting to see how that 

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affects them personally ulf and,
and Adam and Hugh and Nettles, 

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Ray Nettles, whatever going to 
do there. 

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This is, this is, it's even even
Raina, who is a Targaryen, it's 

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still going to change her. 
Like, she's as the twin that 

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doesn't have a dragon if she 
gets one. 

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At this point, I'm just assuming
that's going to happen. 

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I don't actually know. 
I don't know. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So it, it would even that would 

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you think that might go to her 
head a little bit, Maybe not as 

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much it would to Hugh or ulf but
still, that's a big rise in 

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power. 
That's a great point. 

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And I think you put your finger 
on something else that I think 

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is really important in this 
medieval culture, right? 

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Oaths and fealty and leverage 
are so important and they are 

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often backed up by the threat of
well, you have your kid at Ward 

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here, you know, what are you 
going to do? 

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You're going to say no, Well, 
I'm going to decapitate your 

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kid. 
You know, as we saw, you know, 

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at the beginning of Game of 
Thrones, when you know what 

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could happen when a when a 
worship goes bad. 

201
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,240
But it's also it's it's an 
important way to keep people in 

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line. 
What happens if it's one thing 

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to put a Tarly on a dragon or 
Reyna? 

204
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If that happens, or someone 
who's already of noble birth and

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standing where you know where 
their family lives, you can 

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probably have some of their 
family close to you. 

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You have buttons you could push 
to make sure once you hand over 

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the keys to a dragon to that 
person, that they do the thing 

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that you're hoping that they do.
If you start putting other 

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people on Dragons, people who 
already come from basically 

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nothing, they don't have 
anything, how do you keep them 

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in line? 
How do you ensure that they do 

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the thing that you want? 
If you, you know, you put an 

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00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,640
orphan on dragon, you can't say 
I'll kill your family. 

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00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,320
And so that is going to be 
another aspect of this. 

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If indeed they start looking at 
a, a wider casting a wider net 

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00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,360
with these dragon seeds, the 
idea of control, keeping people 

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in line, how do you do it? 
It's an important question if 

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you're about to hand over the 
keys to essentially like a 

220
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,320
nuclear weapon. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,280
Well said. 
Now assuming again I'm assuming 

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00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,200
the Reyna sheep stealer thing 
for now, but other drag. 

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00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,880
Otherwise the same Dragons are 
in play. 

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00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,040
That's still the same dragon 
sheep stealer even if with a 

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00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,800
different rider. 
I saw a theory that I like. 

226
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,280
I wanted to get your your 
thoughts on this. 

227
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,720
This would be a longer term 
thing. 

228
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:54,360
If Reyna gets sheep stealer and 
then flies back to Dragonstone 

229
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,880
or just goes somewhere else not 
where she's was ordered to be. 

230
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,200
That could be how we get to the 
point of the kids getting 

231
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,680
captured like they are in the 
book. 

232
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,560
And that could be get us back to
the same place Rainier is with 

233
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,800
book Nettles and not trusting 
her like it's not. 

234
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,560
It wouldn't be for the same 
reasons that she doesn't trust 

235
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,560
her, but it would create 
conflict between the two of them

236
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,680
that might eventually set up the
book version of Maiden Pool and 

237
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:19,800
and all that, which is 
presumably wouldn't be till like

238
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,240
season four or something if 
that. 

239
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,320
Happens, right? 
That certainly feels, feels, 

240
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,320
feels plausible, right? 
I think that one thing I think 

241
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,520
the show has done a great job of
establishing is how bringing the

242
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,960
characters to life in a way 
where you understand, like what 

243
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,320
they want, like Reyna not having
a dragon that has having that 

244
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,560
meeting with Reniro, where 
Reniro's like, OK, this is like 

245
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:42,080
a really important mission and 
and responsibility I'm placing 

246
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,160
under your shoulders. 
This is the future of the realm.

247
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,160
If everything goes sideways and 
Reyna's like everybody gets a 

248
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,640
dragon but me like, well, you 
and now I have to hang out with 

249
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,280
little kids like that. 
That felt really present to me 

250
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,800
and I could certainly see Reyna,
if she gets the opportunity to 

251
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,520
claim a dragon, saying, well, 
this is much more important, 

252
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,240
right? 
Yeah, like you told me, I'm here

253
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,200
because I don't have a dragon. 
Well, now I have a dragon and 

254
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,360
that's like the power going to 
her head a little bit and being 

255
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,960
like, well, clearly I have 
permission. 

256
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,400
Not to mention Lady Green is is 
in my ass about the fact that 

257
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,040
you know she didn't read the 
fine print of the contract you 

258
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,240
showed up with like baby Dragons
and a couple legs like she was 

259
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,800
thinking full grown. 
So now you don't have a dragon 

260
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:22,960
and you're still not going to 
stay here? 

261
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,120
Come on. 
Yeah. 

262
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,280
Jane will be. 
Pissed. 

263
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,360
Yeah. 
Jane will be like, you got a 

264
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:28,720
dragon. 
You still left. 

265
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,840
Like, what the hell? 
So we got a question from Blue 

266
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,040
Fleur, which says Nettles was 
thought by the maestros to not 

267
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,960
have Targaryen blood. 
Now, I know a lot of book 

268
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,920
readers, a lot of us feel like 
that's not clear. 

269
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,000
But set that aside for now 
because the maestros definitely 

270
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,800
do seem to believe that. 
I think that's accurate what 

271
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,560
Blue Fleur is saying here. 
If Nettles has been nixed, do we

272
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,520
think one of the other dragon 
seeds will get that part of her 

273
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,160
story in House the dragon, 
meaning a common, a truly not 

274
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,480
dragon blooded person getting a 
a dragon? 

275
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,480
I think we might already have 
that. 

276
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,720
Maybe. 
Like is Alf really telling the 

277
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,160
truth? 
I don't know. 

278
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,160
But if he is, it's be 
interesting to find out that he 

279
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,160
was lying and then he still 
managed to ride a dragon. 

280
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,760
And of course, the the Valerian 
bastards is a little bit iffy 

281
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,680
there because, yeah, you could 
say maybe there's some, there's 

282
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,680
probably some Targaryen like way
back in their history, but their

283
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,360
dad's Corley's. 
There's no immediate like if 

284
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,440
there's Targaryen blood, it's 
way back, you know? 

285
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,000
Right, there's no obvious link, 
and we also have to. 

286
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,840
We also have to wonder how much 
of the Targaryen mystique is 

287
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,200
propaganda on their part. 
Jace even says that. 

288
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,000
I love that, yeah. 
Yeah, it would behoove them 

289
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400
right to say, well, nobody else 
can do it but us. 

290
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,080
I really like the choice of Jace
doing it too, because he's the 

291
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,640
one that kind of deep down he 
knows he's not 100. 

292
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,560
You know, he's like, yeah, well,
there's me. 

293
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,200
So like, we don't have to get 
into the hole. 

294
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,480
But you know what I'm saying? 
Yeah. 

295
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,600
What do you think is all like, 
genuinely? 

296
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,680
I kind of doubt we'll ever know 
for sure. 

297
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,880
Maybe maybe because like, how 
would how would they prove it? 

298
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:01,880
How would he be able to prove 
it? 

299
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,440
So you know. 
How would I mean, he's got the 

300
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:10,000
look, OK, but I don't know. 
I would imagine I I wonder if 

301
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,360
we'll ever truly find out, 
because how would they ever know

302
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,640
how they? 
Like, Hugh looks the part. 

303
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,920
It's easy to believe with him 
like, but ulf it's like. 

304
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:24,840
Honestly, even if even if Ulf 
said hey I was lying y'all, you 

305
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,360
still could believe that he 
might have by coincidence a 

306
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,320
Targaryen heritage back and it 
all worked out for him. 

307
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,240
Coincidence. 
You. 

308
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,680
Know what I mean? 
Which could have been the case 

309
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,520
with Nettles too. 
Like people said that part like 

310
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,360
maybe she did have Dragon Ball, 
maybe helped her. 

311
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,080
Yeah, exactly. 
I mean, that's a great point. 

312
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,200
And listen, as Massaria 
basically says, like, oh, you 

313
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,240
want Targaryen blood? 
You know, like anywhere in 

314
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,800
King's Landing around brothels, 
there's gonna be, you know what 

315
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,040
I mean? 
There's gonna be folks in that 

316
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,120
area that probably have some. 
And so. 

317
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,040
It's possible that from Egon, 
right? 

318
00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:59,880
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

319
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:06,920
And so it's possible that even 
if Wolf is bullshitting, that 

320
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,720
he's right without knowing that 
he's correct, you know, because 

321
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:11,839
it's certainly could have 
happened. 

322
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,319
I mean, some of us are related 
to Genghis Khan and don't know 

323
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,640
it, you know? 
Right. 

324
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,880
Yeah, yeah, we like to compare 
him a little bit to Sir Glendon 

325
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,000
Flowers, AKA Glendon Ball from 
the Hedge Knight. 

326
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,960
Who who's like, oh, I'm 
definitely Fireball sons. 

327
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,800
Like are you? 
But you you do have the vibe, 

328
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,840
but I don't know man, but you 
definitely have his his 

329
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,240
attitude. 
So that's cool. 

330
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,520
And and I don't think OLF has, 
you know, the attitude of Bailon

331
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,680
the Brave. 
But but talking about Hugh a 

332
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,960
little bit, I mean, let's let's 
remember Hugh actually makes a 

333
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,200
claim for the throne in the book
eventually. 

334
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,520
That probably isn't till like 
season four in the show. 

335
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,240
Are we still, do you still think
it'll be Four Seasons? 

336
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,360
Is that kind of where we're at? 
Do you have any insight into 

337
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:52,920
that? 
I have no insight, but it seems 

338
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,680
at the pace they're going, 
here's a question I want to flip

339
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,080
around by way of that of 
answering this. 

340
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:06,720
How far do they go after the 
matter is essentially settled? 

341
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,480
Because, you know, once spoiler 
are we allowed to talk? 

342
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:15,720
About spoilers are fine, yeah. 
Once you know one second, the 

343
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,880
third's there. 
It's kind of not over. 

344
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,120
Like there's still significant 
wrangling going on. 

345
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,320
So does it then become like 
Degrassi the next generation? 

346
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,560
Where they? 
You know, like we got, we have 

347
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,640
the younger generation of, of, 
of youngsters like rising into 

348
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,360
positions of prominence and we 
see that struggle. 

349
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,000
It's unclear to me, but I, I 
think that at the pace they're 

350
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,560
going, season four seems broadly
right, because it feels like 

351
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,920
season three is going to be the 
action that's going to be the 

352
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,800
big, big fights. 
You know, like, like I, I, I 

353
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,600
wonder even, you know, it seems 
the season was and the previous 

354
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,920
season you got basically one 
major set piece action scene. 

355
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,480
And I wonder if season three is 
going to be just blow that out. 

356
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,400
Major battles, you know, the 
Butcher's ball, etcetera. 

357
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:09,840
Like you, you wonder? 
There's some big ticket items 

358
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,440
that you would expect some of, 
if not many of to hit the 

359
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,160
screen. 
Yeah, there's, and that's the 

360
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,200
thing we have to talk about here
is this how some of these might 

361
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,160
hit the screen, how they might 
maybe adapt some of these. 

362
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,800
Got a couple good questions in 
that regard. 

363
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,080
Sticking with you just for a 
minute longer. 

364
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,320
I think it's going to be hard 
for them to like resist bringing

365
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,320
up that book prophecy that the 
hammer will fall on the dragon. 

366
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,400
And I mean not resist like 
that's a good, that's a cool 

367
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,160
thing for them to do. 
They should do that and that 

368
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,200
would be really fun. 
And I but I'm interested to see 

369
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:42,200
how they do it because this hot 
D has sort of reversed course 

370
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,600
that Dave and Dan wanted to 
reduce some of the magic where 

371
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,560
these guys are like, let's put 
more of the magic in. 

372
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,320
And it could be interesting to 
see like how where would that 

373
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,080
come from? 
Like where is this propping up 

374
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,360
emanate from? 
Because in the book it just 

375
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,680
people just talk about it. 
They're they don't bother to 

376
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,640
name a source because they don't
need to. 

377
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,240
And the maestros wouldn't 
necessarily know what it is. 

378
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,400
But here they might want to show
like, where does that originate?

379
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,120
Maybe it's just maybe it's just 
Laurie's strong rumor. 

380
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,640
Maybe just just completely 
mundane made-up nonsense, you 

381
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,000
know? 
But maybe it's mystical. 

382
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:15,360
I, I think it's interesting 
because, you know, part of the 

383
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,320
texture of a Game of Thrones, 
the book series and a game of 

384
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,600
and Game of Thrones, the show 
was, as you say, that kind of 

385
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,920
just a drop of magic. 
And that, as we all recall, is a

386
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,160
part of that is based on George 
saying, well, you know, when 

387
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,120
magic ebbed out of the world 
once the Dragons were gone. 

388
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:39,600
So really what we're seeing 
right now is the most magic that

389
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,520
has been in the world since 
probably like the height of 

390
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,120
Valerio when, you know, when 
dozens and dozens, if not 

391
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,520
hundreds of Dragons were were 
flying around the world. 

392
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,200
So it'll be interesting to see 
where that comes. 

393
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,240
But we've already seen, you 
know, Hellenas have have 

394
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,720
legitimate prophetic powers. 
We've already seen things going 

395
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,200
on in Harrenhal that don't seem 
to be just someone slipping 

396
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,280
stuff into Damon's food. 
It seems to be much more 

397
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,960
existential and important than 
that. 

398
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,520
You know, we've so I'm eager to 
see if that happens and where it

399
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,960
comes from. 
Right on, I am too. 

400
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,600
Let's move on to a different 
subtopic here. 

401
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,120
This is the one I teased at the 
beginning. 

402
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,280
Glenn Chaos. 
Do you think Hot D suffers from 

403
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,320
a slight lack of humor? 
I know it's a serious show, but 

404
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,200
Game of Thrones game has 
characters like Braun, The 

405
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,760
Hound, Torment, and Olenna who 
all made us laugh out loud. 

406
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,760
And of course we had Tyrion from
the very start who was very 

407
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,800
entertaining. 
And Game of Thrones is very 

408
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,840
serious as well, but it balanced
out very well. 

409
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,840
Would you like to see a 
character or a few characters 

410
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,120
bring those funny moments? 
Or are you happy with the tone 

411
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:45,640
of the show as it is? 
If a humorous character is 

412
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,440
needed, who do we think can 
bring it oaf? 

413
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,360
I don't think we have seen many 
options. 

414
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,600
Unless Deron surprises us. 
Yeah, Deron, you never know. 

415
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,360
That's a good question. 
You never. 

416
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,680
Know who knows what kind of 
character he is. 

417
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,960
I would say, and you can vamp 
off of this that I I do think 

418
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,480
the style of humor is a little 
different. 

419
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,720
It's I would agree that it's not
as laugh out loud as Game of 

420
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,600
Thrones. 
Maybe not yet, but but also it 

421
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,000
is a little it is a little more 
contained. 

422
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,440
You have fewer people that have 
that aren't directly involved in

423
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,800
things like everybody is so 
deeply involved in in House of 

424
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,520
the Dragon and what's going on. 
You have a lot of characters 

425
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,240
with so many different plot 
lines like that aren't involved 

426
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,640
in this chase for the throne or 
doing something else entirely. 

427
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,800
Like Aria's storyline, which 
wasn't a great isn't a great 

428
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,120
example for humor necessarily 
has like nothing to do with the 

429
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,160
quest for the Iron Throne. 
Whereas this show it's it's more

430
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,040
focused on that being the main 
purpose here. 

431
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,200
And so I think we have more 
ironic humor things that we 

432
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,960
laugh at. 
The characters aren't laughing 

433
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,040
at with us in Game of Thrones. 
I think we had a lot of times 

434
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,600
where they laughed and we 
laughed with them. 

435
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,040
Here it's more like, oh, that's 
funny. 

436
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:46,840
Damon doesn't realize it's funny
or Damon doesn't laugh. 

437
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,000
But when Simon Strong, who's 
pretty funny, says no Red 

438
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,600
current, sorry about that. 
That's why no one, no one on the

439
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,320
show laughs with him. 
But that's funny, you know, So, 

440
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:56,960
so maybe it's a style thing, 
but. 

441
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,680
No, I agree with you. 
I think it was a concern. 

442
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,880
As I said off mic, I think 
coming into season 2, I was a 

443
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,640
little bit like, gosh, I wonder 
how they're going to lighten the

444
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,120
mood because there's a lot of, 
you know, you got kids getting 

445
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,920
killed, you got cities being 
razed to the ground. 

446
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,920
You have beloved characters 
meeting their end. 

447
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,560
And a lot of the characters that
I think people care about are 

448
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,480
just taking hit after hit after 
hit. 

449
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,320
So where's is it going to be too
much? 

450
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,080
And I, I think they've, they've,
I've largely not felt that, Oh 

451
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,120
gosh, they need to lighten up. 
I was a little worried that 

452
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,760
maybe after the first episode 
where you're like, gosh, but you

453
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,000
know, in the in 205, the episode
we're talking about, like 

454
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,680
there's a great moment, as I 
told you, where like, you know, 

455
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:54,040
Damon is insisting on being 
called Grace and Sir Simon is 

456
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,160
like, well, are you, Isn't 
Ranira the queen? 

457
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,360
He's like, well, what do you 
call the person who's married to

458
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:04,160
the queen, the king? 
Ah, and then David's like, well,

459
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,000
there you go. 
And then so Simon's like, yeah, 

460
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,480
but Consort. 
And I thought that was quite 

461
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,680
funny. 
And there are different moments 

462
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,920
like that. 
I thought that until he got 

463
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,240
burned to an absolute crisp. 
I was actually finding a lot of 

464
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,560
mirth in in Tom Glenn's Glenn 
Carney's performances. 

465
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:27,280
Egon, like he was kind of fun. 
Like I actually against my 

466
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,120
against my expectations, found 
myself going, you know what? 

467
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,120
He's making a lot of bad 
decisions, but he's he's a kind 

468
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:38,080
of fun guy and he's. 
Very, he's very funny and even 

469
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,160
his drinking guard like they're 
like 3 stooges with them like 

470
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,800
hit, you know, running into each
other's face. 

471
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,800
Like there's so much like little
humor with all of that. 

472
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,320
Stuff. 
I don't know, that's just a good

473
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,840
physical humor there as well. 
I I find the show hilarious to 

474
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,280
be honest, but I'm maybe easy to
laugh. 

475
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,240
Yeah, I think that's a great 
point. 

476
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,840
Gwen Hightower too, right? 
That guy's funny. 

477
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,400
Yeah, Gwen Hightower is very, 
very uptight and funny. 

478
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:07,200
I think that the fun odd couple 
Ness of him and Cole is is add 

479
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,840
some texture. 
I so it's a long way of 

480
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,640
answering the question. 
I don't think it's I don't think

481
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,520
it's a problem, though. 
I understand the concern. 

482
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,800
And you know what? 
Actually the Carrenhal stuff, 

483
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,000
and we brought up Simon Strong, 
but I kind of think a lot of the

484
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,160
vision stuff had this humor to 
it especially. 

485
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,160
And Alice too, like the way that
she is observing Damon. 

486
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,320
There is this humor to it. 
Some of Alice's comments have 

487
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,440
been pretty funny. 
Yeah. 

488
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,520
And Alf, like Glenn mentions 
Alf, Alf been pretty humorous, 

489
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,720
and I bet Alf is going to be 
funny going forward. 

490
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,560
And then that's part of what I 
was saying about you have 

491
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,280
characters that are like at the 
heart of it, they're Royals, you

492
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,360
know, and they're a lot of them 
just they aren't funny. 

493
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,320
They're never like their 
upbringing didn't allow that for

494
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,560
them. 
Like they're just everything was

495
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,880
very serious. 
So we're getting characters that

496
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,600
more that that have spent time 
just hanging out at the bar 

497
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,440
more, you know, like off and egg
on as well now that we're going 

498
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,800
to get a lot more humor from 
him. 

499
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,440
That's why we need off all the 
more, I think, because of the 

500
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,080
lack of. 
Aegon and why? 

501
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Maybe slides right in there to 
take his. 

502
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,480
Place well, if they may dare on 
a joking type. 

503
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,960
That's true. 
You know, it might need that 

504
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,600
kind of humor. 
Yeah, that's very, that's very 

505
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:10,440
true. 
Yeah. 

506
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,880
And back to Aegon. 
Yeah, he has been really funny. 

507
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,840
Like we, a lot of listeners have
heard us compare him to Michael 

508
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,360
Scott, which is basically what 
you just gave. 

509
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,000
He's like a he's not a good 
boss, but he is kind of fun 

510
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,320
sometimes, you know? 
Yeah. 

511
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,360
And like, honestly, like, you 
know, that first day on the 

512
00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:27,600
throne, I saw some promise, you 
know? 

513
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,960
He managed to stand down Otto 
over pointing out that the small

514
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,720
folk would be important to the 
war effort. 

515
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,160
Like it was a learning curve 
there but I just found some 

516
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,080
weirdly rooting for the guy. 
I know it's really weird. 

517
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,880
We have a lot, we get a lot of 
comments like how can you like 

518
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,360
that guy so well, I that's the 
question I'm asking. 

519
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,880
Why do I like this guy? 
I don't know, but I'm admitting 

520
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,280
to you that I do. 
I'm not, I'm not like fired up 

521
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,760
about it. 
I'm just like, you know, I like,

522
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:54,680
I kind of like this guy. 
I don't. 

523
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:55,760
Really. 
I mean, even doesn't have a 

524
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,240
sense of humor, so at least what
else? 

525
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,000
That's true. 
That guy is never like he's he's

526
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,280
like George Costanza's mother 
and Seinfeld, like never a ha. 

527
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,000
Not a teehee, not a chuckle, not
a giggle. 

528
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,880
Let's talk a little about the 
Riverlands, which continues to 

529
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,440
be a a a disentangling as sort 
of how the book portrays it is a

530
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,520
little easier for Damon in the 
book, but it was also he just 

531
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,240
says, hey, everybody get for, 
you know, sign up for Rainier's 

532
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,120
army. 
And they're like, yeah, 

533
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,360
Rainier's army. 
So it was, to be fair, just kind

534
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,680
of easy in the book. 
So they they wanted to add a 

535
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,200
little more to that hair and all
as well. 

536
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,160
Isn't just season 2. 
That's the thing that I like to 

537
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,680
talk about here or bring up 
because it's Damon's arc for 

538
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,800
now. 
And it probably won't have a lot

539
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,040
to do with Damon, you know, 
starting in season three maybe, 

540
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,960
or I'm not sure but and and it 
but it will come back to him in 

541
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:46,880
season four. 
Maybe. 

542
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,920
Again, I'm assuming that he 
doesn't die till season four, 

543
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,000
but it's going to be big for 
other characters. 

544
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,720
It's going to be Amon that we 
see there instead. 

545
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,000
And we're going to see him do 
like awful things and burn all 

546
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,760
that wood down the poor Field of
Dreams. 

547
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,200
Burn it, you know, build it and 
they will come and they will be 

548
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,720
Vergar and they will burn it. 
Yeah. 

549
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:09,040
So lots of potential there for 
Harrenhal to be key to the story

550
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,440
kind of until the end. 
And honestly, if we remember our

551
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,720
book plots, it isn't actually 
ever resolved, is it? 

552
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,000
Alice reference. 
Is just kind of like just kind 

553
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,440
of like Peters out because 
notable people just kind of 

554
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,200
disappear and up and, you know, 
vanish from the story. 

555
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,360
You don't know what happened. 
We need blood and fire to finish

556
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,400
that off and we obviously aren't
getting that by, you know, 

557
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,360
before the end of this season. 
I. 

558
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,640
Think that it's OK for the show.
I agree. 

559
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:35,920
I. 
Agree. 

560
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,160
She, it's like she doesn't have 
to have it. 

561
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,160
And because we don't even know 
when she starts, it's, it's kind

562
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,600
of neat to have her be like this
out of time, you know? 

563
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,360
One thing I want to get your 
take on is, you know, my 

564
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,320
relationship to Fire and Blood 
is kind of changed because of 

565
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:56,360
the show, by some of the changes
and because of the way the story

566
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,320
has to life in a flesh and blood
way. 

567
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,280
For instance, you know, it's one
thing to say on a kind of, you 

568
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,680
know, intellectual level. 
Yes, I understand that this 

569
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,880
fired blood is written from the 
perspective of several 

570
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,160
unreliable historians, some of 
whom were writing like after the

571
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,920
fact. 
And we're not there for a lot of

572
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,360
like physically in place for a 
lot of the things that happened,

573
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,360
you know, except for Mushroom, 
which we what he's saying. 

574
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:33,160
But watching the show and stuff 
like, say, when stuff like the 

575
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,000
the secret Summit say happens, 
Rainier meeting Allison. 

576
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,600
My my way of porting that to the
books is saying, oh, well, that 

577
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,160
this never came out. 
They never figured that. 

578
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,360
Out and it's being. 
Truly secret, right? 

579
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,400
And then other things then also 
come into focus. 

580
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:57,760
Like I I've started to perceive 
fire and blood as war propaganda

581
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,920
written from an essentially 
misogynist point of view that 

582
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:07,400
seeks to either sideline the 
influence in the moves of the 

583
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,280
women players in this Allison, 
Raniro, Helena, you know, like, 

584
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,480
or seeks to frame them as, oh 
man, they're crazy. 

585
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,520
Alice, whatever is that? 
Create, you know, who knows 

586
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,200
what's going on in her witch 
Renira. 

587
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,800
She's unhinged, you know, And as
you see the story unfold in the 

588
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,440
show, you start to see like, OK,
they're actually making 

589
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
reasonable decisions. 
Maybe not the best decisions all

590
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,480
the time, but you understand 
where they're coming from. 

591
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:39,280
And in that way, it puts the 
book, at least in my mind, in a 

592
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,880
in a quite interesting light. 
I think they work together 

593
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,920
really well, despite some of the
actual substantive like 

594
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,960
structural changes. 
Yeah, there's some difference. 

595
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,760
I think that's been there from 
the get go with, you know, a 

596
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,480
great reading of it, But I think
it has started to really come to

597
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,280
the fore in people's minds. 
And I think a lot of people are 

598
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,120
being faced with the fact that 
they were taking a lot of things

599
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,000
as facts in a book that is 
propaganda. 

600
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,160
As you're saying that is a 
biased history and all of that 

601
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840
stuff. 
I, I too many people in this 

602
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,720
fandom just took, I mean, one, 
they took it as fact, and two, 

603
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,640
there's conflicting reports in a
book they're taking as fact. 

604
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,880
It makes no sense. 
Yeah, yeah, you have to take 

605
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,120
some of it with a grain of salt.
Yeah. 

606
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,560
Here's a great example. 
Like in the book Rooks Rest, 

607
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:33,680
it's Aymond and Egon fly out 
together to meet the threat, 

608
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:34,840
right? 
It's both of them. 

609
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,560
So you know the the implication 
there being that it was kind of 

610
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,160
like both of their ideas. 
Or maybe the kings, when you see

611
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,000
what happened, it makes sense 
that nobody would want to touch 

612
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,880
that story or would even maybe 
even know what really happened, 

613
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,440
right? 
You certainly want wouldn't want

614
00:31:53,440 --> 00:32:00,320
to accuse Amond of potentially 
trying to push his brother off 

615
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,640
the throne. 
Like that would be a very 

616
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,360
dangerous thing to do. 
And you wouldn't want to trend 

617
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,640
those wars. 
So it would make sense to say, 

618
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,160
oh, they both went out there and
whoops, Aegon, hang on, got the 

619
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,880
worst of it. 
And that just happens at war, 

620
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,720
you know? 
And I think that's a great 

621
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,200
example of the show bringing out
these details that still work 

622
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:16,680
with the books, but in a 
different way. 

623
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,280
Absolutely. 
And like for example you you 

624
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,000
bring it up this. 
This brings up several other 

625
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,720
related points for example, like
Cole specifically lies on the 

626
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,520
way back. 
He's like Aegon killed this 

627
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
dragon, you know like OK, so 
that's probably going in the 

628
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,520
show cannon official record. 
Their maesters just wrote all 

629
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,880
that down, you know, and if you 
and if you imagine the scenario 

630
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,960
you just described about it 
looks like Aegon and Aymond were

631
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,280
in on the ambush together from 
the book version, which may be 

632
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,000
correct from the book version. 
But the maesters would never 

633
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,240
know that Aegon went on his own 
and they would never even 

634
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,640
imagine. 
They wouldn't even cross their 

635
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,160
minds like, wait, wait, well, 
what if let me just throw this 

636
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,680
theory at you guys, you know, 
like we're all maesters and at 

637
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,560
the sitter, like, what if what 
actually happened was he just 

638
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,280
got really drunk that day and 
flew there on his own. 

639
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,720
Let me just what do you all 
think of that? 

640
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,560
They'd be like, dude, where's 
the, where's the evidence for 

641
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,480
that, you know? 
Not only that, but but but 

642
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,480
writing that down would put your
life and say, I mean, look at 

643
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,320
Cole in this episode, right when
Allison asks him straight up 

644
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,520
what happened, what happened out
there? 

645
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,600
And he's like, well, I don't 
know it. 

646
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,760
It's very clear that Cole feels 
like he has seen something that 

647
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,400
could put him at risk if he 
talked about it. 

648
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,720
You know, he walks up and 
there's the brother of the king 

649
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,000
with his sword out standing over
his broken body that looks like 

650
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,680
not a brother going to help his 
brother. 

651
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,920
What did I just see? 
Not to mention, you know, the 

652
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,440
Vergar not flying out at the 
signal, all these other things 

653
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,360
like. 
And. 

654
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:55,280
And so it's clear that just 
feeling at risk could have 

655
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,920
altered the way historians wrote
down this story. 

656
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,720
You don't want to make anyone 
mad. 

657
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,920
You're just a just a regular 
maester. 

658
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,360
You're just like a regular, you 
know, just a real fool. 

659
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:05,840
Yeah. 
You know. 

660
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,040
Right. 
And where would they get some of

661
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,800
these insights too, like some of
these things that were discussed

662
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,560
in private, these personal 
conversations, like you 

663
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,920
mentioned? 
Alice Rivers, I think I 

664
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,719
mentioned before, not in this 
episode, but in some other 

665
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,040
episode that she's like the 
trifecta of things that maesters

666
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:22,400
would get wrong, magical female 
and a bastard like those are 

667
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,280
like they trifecta things that a
maester will have bias against, 

668
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,560
you know? 
So, yeah. 

669
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,679
So here's a good question from 
Scott of Grey Water Watch. 

670
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,199
We had a related question 
already in here. 

671
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,159
So this is nice, nice and 
timely. 

672
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,320
Will they change the God's eye, 
the battle over the God's eye, 

673
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,920
the the plot line and the 
timing. 

674
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,520
I'm I don't know that they'll 
change too much about how it 

675
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,159
happens. 
I think it'll still basically be

676
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,560
Eamon versus Damon, but I do 
think they will push it a little

677
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,400
farther out. 
I don't think it will be season 

678
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,400
three. 
I'm going to guess it's in the 

679
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,040
final season. 
Well, here's what I think about 

680
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,520
that too, is that just like any 
of these big fights over like no

681
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,880
one else sees, we're talking 
about bias and propaganda and 

682
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,160
what's reported. 
I think this is one of the times

683
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,040
when they have so much room to 
do whatever they want with what 

684
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,160
happened in the sky there. 
I, I don't know that I think 

685
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,400
it's that believable for the 
action of that to happen exactly

686
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,320
how it happened. 
Did find the sword through his 

687
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,280
eye after the fact. 
So that's part of where that 

688
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:17,920
story came from. 
But I agree, Like how do they 

689
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,760
know that? 
Like there's there's no 

690
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,920
eyewitness to anything. 
You're right. 

691
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,160
Even Alice Rivers looking up 
there, she wouldn't be able to 

692
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,640
tell like I can. 
See clearly what's. 

693
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,320
Happening, you know, hundreds of
feet above me. 

694
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,880
If they know, OK, we got. 
To get a sword through an eye. 

695
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,200
But they have room within that 
to play with so much about what 

696
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,320
they could have said or 
experienced or done. 

697
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,360
So I do think they'll change it 
in some way, like the idea that 

698
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,240
Damon. 
That Veigar just lands there and

699
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,440
they face off and then they fly 
off together to fight. 

700
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:44,720
There's no way that's what 
happened. 

701
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,280
Like this. 
Like let's let's have our 

702
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,480
meeting to talk 1st and then 
we'll fly up and fight. 

703
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,680
Like, I don't think so. 
But anyway, that's but that's 

704
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,440
the Maestro's perspective. 
Yeah, I would imagine it would 

705
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,560
get. 
Changed in some way at the same 

706
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,840
time, I think and I think you're
it feels right with the timing. 

707
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,960
I can't I can't see it happening
any earlier like at the absolute

708
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,720
earliest end of season three. 
But I don't see it that early. 

709
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,680
Yeah, they've seemed to focus 
more on the main characters. 

710
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,560
So you. 
Know that. 

711
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,080
Yeah, I, I, I would be 
surprised. 

712
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,040
But I. 
You know when you. 

713
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,240
Read the book and I'm sure 
they'll change stuff, but that's

714
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:22,160
one where you're like, whoa, 
this'll be it. 

715
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,800
Like this is not they, they will
do this in some form or fashion.

716
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,560
This is not gonna be Battle of 
the Burning Mill stuff where, 

717
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,360
you know, flash cut 2 thousands 
of dead like this is going to 

718
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,320
be, you're going to, this is 
going to be a set. 

719
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,040
This is going to be a big, big 
one. 

720
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,480
Something else I want to bring 
up. 

721
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,440
To go well, one like, yeah, I 
think you're right. 

722
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:42,840
It's always going to be Amon 
versus Damon. 

723
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,920
Not going to be like, okay, 
actually it's Amon versus Jace. 

724
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,640
We decided to pick right you. 
Know what I mean? 

725
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,280
But The thing is, do you 
remember? 

726
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,080
Preseason. 
Listen. 

727
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,480
There was that. 
Interview with Bethany Antonia 

728
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,240
where she said that she that 
Bayla gets Damon's sore dark 

729
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,360
sister. 
Oh yeah, she does say that. 

730
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000
I found that so interesting. 
When I forgot. 

731
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,200
About that comment, I just want 
to bring that back. 

732
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,000
Up interesting, like maybe the 
end of the. 

733
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,720
Season or something? 
Oh, that's interesting. 

734
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,440
They're not even the same 
location right now. 

735
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,880
Yeah, that, that will be. 
Fascinating to see how that goes

736
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,920
because I can't admit another 
happens, but that's got about 

737
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,760
that comment, yeah. 
She did just come out and say 

738
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,640
that that was kind of odd. 
So Speaking of the Battle of 

739
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Burning Mill, it's a great segue
to a character that's been name 

740
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,080
dropped a few times inside 
conversations. 

741
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,720
And you may not have noticed 
this unless you like pay 

742
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,680
attention to the subtitles or 
listen to us. 

743
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,160
Or if you're Greyjoy. 
Pilled Yeah, like like me, you, 

744
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,560
you, he, he. 
The red Kraken has been name 

745
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,400
dropped a few times just in 
casual conversations on at 

746
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,120
council. 
I think both times it happened, 

747
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,680
maybe it was more than two, but 
I can think of two times where 

748
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,160
it happened during council 
sessions, like when council 

749
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,640
wasn't actually in session, they
just someone was talking about 

750
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,400
him and then and then they get 
to business and it moves on. 

751
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,640
So a blockade. 
What do we do? 

752
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,920
About the blockade, it's like, 
well, get the cracking over 

753
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:58,960
there maybe. 
Yeah. 

754
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,080
Then they move on. 
So I'm going to lower my own 

755
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,040
expectations here and say I kind
of guess he's going to be a 

756
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,640
matter of dialogue, like, oh, 
the Red Kraken did this, the 

757
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,400
Dalton Greyjoy's attacking the 
West. 

758
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,600
Cause especially if they're 
cutting two episodes out of 

759
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:15,760
season 2. 
And I don't know if they're 

760
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,840
going to do that again. 
Like are we going to have eight 

761
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,960
episodes again for season three?
Are they going to go back to to 

762
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:21,960
10? 
I don't know. 

763
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,040
I wonder when? 
I think he appears eventually, 

764
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,240
but much like the way we opened 
this season with a visit to the 

765
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:37,480
North and an introduction to 
Lord Stark, when, you know, you 

766
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,240
look at the pacing of this show 
and the way it's laid out and 

767
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:45,400
we're not probably not going to 
see him again until, I don't 

768
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,160
know, mid season three, end of 
like, you know, where, where 

769
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,640
might we see? 
I think it might be the same 

770
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,040
thing with the red crack. 
And clearly they're seeding it 

771
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,680
so that we'll see him at some 
point, or at least they'll have 

772
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,520
the option to show him. 
But I I can't imagine when he 

773
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,400
would show up. 
Probably not until mid season 

774
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,520
three, right? 
Yeah, that sounds about right. 

775
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,640
Yeah, after the West gets pretty
engaged in the Riverlands, he's 

776
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,120
like, hey, you, all your armies 
are in the Riverlands. 

777
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,240
Perfect. 
And. 

778
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,400
They're like, Oh yeah. 
You guys do that, don't you? 

779
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,160
It's been a while. 
Because they've had the piece of

780
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,920
egg on the Conqueror who didn't 
allow them, you know, obviously 

781
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,440
would not have been cool with 
them raiding the West. 

782
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,360
And so they're like, Oh yeah, 
it's been 100 years since, 

783
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,200
right? 
That's always right, right? 

784
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,440
Right. 
Right. 

785
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,920
Yeah, we forgot. 
Yeah, thanks for that question. 

786
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,400
Zeke boy, Zeke B, Zeke boy 
boyat. 

787
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,320
I'm I have Zeke B written here 
and your name is Zeke Boyat, I 

788
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,480
believe anyway. 
So one thing I I've been 

789
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,240
rereading Fire and blood a lot, 
like well beyond the the parts 

790
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,440
that this season 2 take place. 
And I, I just, I forgot just the

791
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,160
sheer number of places that 
Vergar burns. 

792
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,920
Oh my. 
God it's insane. 

793
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,240
So many places, yeah. 
So this brings us to a question 

794
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:00,440
you pointed out to me. 
About when I when I asked if 

795
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,880
Amond had ever killed someone by
hand and not Dragon and what you

796
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,160
pointed out. 
Oh, that's a good. 

797
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:06,480
That's a good one. 
Yeah, yeah. 

798
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,400
So Jason, on Monday we were 
talking about Amond and how like

799
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,080
has he ever fought anyone hand 
to hand? 

800
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,880
And Sean, you know, Sean of 
course is unsullied and you're 

801
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,680
like, I don't think so. 
And I'm like, yeah, he hasn't. 

802
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:22,720
And and then he only ever fights
one person, killed anyone hand 

803
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,320
to hand. 
Yeah, and it's. 

804
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,400
Sir Simon. 
Strong in the book, that's it. 

805
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,040
He fights hand to hand when he's
like, forces him to fight him. 

806
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,520
He's like, oh boy, that won't be
funny. 

807
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,720
Sounds pretty ludicrous to me. 
The idea of Eamon being like 

808
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:41,040
fight me like you Victor, Sir 
Simon like that sounds comical. 

809
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,240
It's like he looks like. 
A fool to fight. 

810
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:45,120
This old man? 
Yeah, it looks it is. 

811
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,720
Kind of silly, but Eamon losing 
his temper, you know, stuff 

812
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:50,000
happens, right? 
So yeah, here's the related 

813
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,760
question, though. 
The question isn't about whether

814
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,160
that will happen or other fights
that Eamon may have or not. 

815
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:02,240
It's the idea that the Dragons 
and their riders have a bond. 

816
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,640
It's that's this topic of 
conversation that comes up more 

817
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,600
and more as the show progresses.
Because there does seem to be a 

818
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,760
little bit of like unspoken here
and there, like when Rainier 

819
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,720
Cedricaris and and Cyrax knew to
burn the funeral pyre, which is 

820
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:18,440
kind of specific. 
And same thing in the battle. 

821
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,400
There's like a little bit at 
rooks wrestlers, maybe a few 

822
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,520
commands that are like, well, 
how did the dragon know what you

823
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,600
meant there? 
And that's true for real animals

824
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,840
sometimes like dogs can be 
pretty, pretty surprisingly 

825
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,000
precise with with their 
commands. 

826
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,080
So the idea is this, you have 
Dragons that are young that have

827
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,920
not, don't have a lot of 
experience. 

828
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,520
They wouldn't be sending images 
of their long history towards 

829
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,000
their rider. 
Like Vermax's grew up with 

830
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,200
Jayce. 
His experiences are like they're

831
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000
parallel. 
But Amond and to a lesser extent

832
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Helena have ELT Dragons that 
have been around and especially 

833
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,880
Amond. 
Vegar burned the hell out of 

834
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,640
Dorn too. 
Like Vegar has done some 

835
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,760
business. 
Like Vegar has torched more 

836
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,960
castles than anyone. 
The Valerian's the famous one. 

837
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,960
But Vegar has way more quantity 
under her wing than Valerian 

838
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,600
ever did. 
Valerian's fires did more 

839
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,160
damage, but Vegar did all of 
Dorn now and it's going to do 

840
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,240
all the Riverlands. 
Vegar. 

841
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,120
Just Dorn. 
Vegard has Dorn. 

842
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,520
I mean, Vegard does. 
Like a twice and three times 

843
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,080
over on Dorian. 
There's like the same places 

844
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,680
every a while. 
This is like Gregor. 

845
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,200
And and and Vargo Hood in the 
Riverlands, yeah. 

846
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,920
So is that maybe an implication 
that we're getting here that 

847
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:39,000
that maybe some of Eamon's? 
Personality. 

848
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Some of his. 
Vibe comes from Veigar like the 

849
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,840
dragon effects his personality 
just as maybe to a lesser extent

850
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,160
than a skin changer was and now 
you did an interview with you 

851
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,120
and Mitchell where he kind of he
touched on some of these things.

852
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,760
That's kind of where I'm coming 
from How did that comment strike

853
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,520
you in the in just this general 
subject? 

854
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,280
It it I think it makes. 
Sense to me on a certain level 

855
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:03,720
and you know, we saw the end of 
season one, the end of poor Luke

856
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:07,400
and and poor Arax. 
You know, Eamon was like, they 

857
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:12,960
don't know, don't do it. 
And clearly these beasts have a 

858
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,840
mind of their own and it's 
written in the text that they're

859
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,960
it's not like riding a horse, 
like it's a different kind of 

860
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,600
relationship. 
And obviously that bond on some 

861
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,920
level is magical that the the 
Dragons are all tied up in magic

862
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,080
somehow. 
So it would not it would not at 

863
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,400
all surprise me that there is 
that that bond, so to speak, 

864
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,200
goes two ways. 
You know, I mean, look at you 

865
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,560
know, it was two beautiful 
moments from Rick's rest in 

866
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,800
different ways. 
The first was a drunk egg on it 

867
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,880
going the sunfire and somewhere 
nuzzling his chest like a like a

868
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,760
dog would almost being like, 
Hey, are you good, dad? 

869
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,160
And then that that moment where,
you know, Ranis and Mae lease 

870
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,640
lock eyes when it's they know 
it's over. 

871
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,960
You know, that's such a powerful
moment, but it speaks to that 

872
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,560
bond, that relationship, and I 
think it has to be a two way St.

873
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:10,200
on some level, you know, or how 
else could one explain it? 

874
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,320
And we've seen in Game of 
Thrones, even where, you know, 

875
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,680
if we, if we want to pretend 
that that lore is the same kind 

876
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,400
of lore where, you know, 
Daenerys Dragons would react to 

877
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,720
just her general mood and the 
and the danger around her. 

878
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:26,560
So I think that makes sense. 
What do you think? 

879
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,160
Well, I I think they 
telegraphed. 

880
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,160
It very straightforward. 
I wanna hear Shaya's answer, but

881
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,800
just one, I just have one quick 
comment. 

882
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,680
When Rainier was pregnant, they 
basically like telegraphed that 

883
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,480
Cyrax was feeling what she was 
feeling. 

884
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,560
Like that was the most blatant, 
perhaps, communication between 

885
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,640
Dragon and Ryder that we've seen
'cause like, they weren't even 

886
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,560
in the same room. 
Yeah, that's a great example. 

887
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:48,960
I want to. 
Bring it to You're talking 

888
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,000
about, you know, Veigar's length
of age, the types of things that

889
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,760
Veigar has experienced. 
I've long liked the idea that 

890
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:02,800
Viserys was somewhat haunted by 
Valerian's long memory to bond 

891
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,880
with such an ancient beast. 
Who's? 

892
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,080
Experienced Valyria. 
Who's done? 

893
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,640
Who's gone through so much? 
I can't help but feel that that 

894
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,320
would lead into Viserys psyche 
in some way. 

895
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,240
So that's why I feel that 
Viserys was so like focused on 

896
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,560
Valyria because of his Valyrian 
connection with Valyria. 

897
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,600
Could be. 
Vision. 

898
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,280
Yeah, for what Valyrian saw 
that's really cool and why he 

899
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,000
was so. 
Like uncomfortable with Dragons 

900
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,200
as well is that he saw. 
So much of what Valyrian had. 

901
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Done. 
He saw so much of Valyria. 

902
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,680
I, I, I don't know, I feel like 
sometimes the writers have to 

903
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,120
get some snippets of feelings or
memories or something from their

904
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,280
Dragons. 
Well, he says in. 

905
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,640
Season one, does he not? 
That it's a fiction that we 

906
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,880
control the Dragons. 
Yeah, it's a. 

907
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,960
It's like it's. 
Not true. 

908
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:51,920
And I think you're on to 
something. 

909
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,920
I think that's right, and it 
makes sense for it's a it's a 

910
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,600
well known human. 
Concept right? 

911
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:57,520
Like. 
We. 

912
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:03,240
Believe that we control our 
cats, but clearly they are in. 

913
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,200
They literally put a virus in 
our thing in our head that makes

914
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,880
us love them more. 
Like that's actually, that's 

915
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,000
actual. 
Science, I mean. 

916
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,080
The cats definitely control us, 
so Dragons, why not Dragons? 

917
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:12,560
Yeah. 
Anyway. 

918
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,400
All right, let's take a quick, 
quick break. 

919
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,200
If you are enjoying our content,
why not head on over to 

920
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,680
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
and sign yourself up? 

921
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,000
But we've got a variety of 
levels, a variety of benefits, 

922
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,200
and the most popular benefit, of
course, is bonus content. 

923
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:36,440
We got a lot of back catalog 
episodes in that Patreon only 

924
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,800
folder or feed, whatever you 
want to call it. 

925
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,600
And I think it's more than worth
the monthly subscription, which 

926
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,840
of course you can set to 
whatever number you like. 

927
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,040
And of course, make sure to 
check us out on Friday over at 

928
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,280
Twitch, where we have great, 
good times with our Crusader 

929
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,400
Kings 3, which is the world of 
Westeros modded into this 

930
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,040
wonderful game with incredible 
detail. 

931
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,440
You're starting a new family. 
New. 

932
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,240
Camp, we just finished a Tarly. 
Campaign and what Yeah, that was

933
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:10,360
fun. 
We conquered Old Town and 

934
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,640
Highgarden. 
We got like really feisty there 

935
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,040
and he he was Hunter the big. 
Hunter. 

936
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,480
I was hunter, the big hunter. 
Yes, they're the big hunter. 

937
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,360
My. 
Kids, I keep losing control of 

938
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,400
my kids in Crusader Kings 3. 
Sorry. 

939
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,160
Game is hard. 
Game is hard. 

940
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,120
OK my friends, what, what do you
have anything else you want to 

941
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,120
shout out? 
Like anything you've been 

942
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,080
working on that's kind of that 
you aren't, that's like not your

943
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,120
typical thing, 'cause I know 
your, your, your profile is, is 

944
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,400
nice and, and big and well seen.
But I know maybe some other 

945
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,560
things that you wanted to shout 
out or or bring attention to 

946
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,360
that maybe I'm not, I haven't 
mentioned yet. 

947
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,640
My my my writing partner Shay 
Serrano and I have a podcast 

948
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,480
called 6 Trophies. 
You can find that on wherever 

949
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,880
you get your podcasts. 
We cover basketball, the NBA, 

950
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:03,800
the WNBA. 
We also wrote a movie that you 

951
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,440
can find on the Hulu platform. 
It's called Miguel Wants to 

952
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,840
Fight and I was wrote ATV show, 
wrote on ATV show that he 

953
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,200
created called Primo. 
You can find that on Amazon 

954
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,640
Prime slash Amazon freebie and 
then the podcast, which I'm sure

955
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,400
X-ray Vision wherever you get 
your podcasts, the official Game

956
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,960
of Thrones pod wherever you get 
your podcasts. 

957
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,280
I'm gonna ask you about the. 
Movie, you know, I knew you were

958
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,920
writing that, but I didn't know 
it was out yet, so I must have 

959
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,280
missed a little thing. 
What's it called again? 

960
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,400
Miguel wants. 
To fight. 

961
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,840
Miguel wants to fight. 
All right, I gotta check that. 

962
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,120
Out very cool hell yeah that's a
great achievement that's that's 

963
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,640
really cool that you did that 
related to what you just said we

964
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,560
have a question about from our 
good friends in our Facebook 

965
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,680
group Thomas Pappas and Dom 
Tartaglia they want you to drop 

966
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,800
some NBA or WNBA parallels for 
some of the top characters let's

967
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,320
what do you got you got an Amond
or a Cole or an Aegon or a 

968
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,320
Helena or an Allison just just 
for the main characters else 

969
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:06,120
it's a little too broad but what
you got for them I think that. 

970
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,560
You know, Ranira is like Caitlin
Clark, rookie for the Fever, had

971
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,440
an incredible college career, 
but it's just kind of growing 

972
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,560
into the game and, and finding 
out what a physical and bruising

973
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,840
game it is when you really start
to play with the pros. 

974
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,880
And I think Rainier is going 
through that exact same kind of 

975
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,240
growing pain right now where 
she's realizing, you know what, 

976
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:30,520
I've kind of been checked out 
early in my reign. 

977
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,440
This is happening much faster 
than I was anticipating. 

978
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,760
And I, I thought I was prepared 
for this, but I'm not. 

979
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:45,200
I would say that you gosh, I 
would say that Aymond is a 

980
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,320
little like Carmelo Anthony, 
former Knicks legend forward, 

981
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,600
Denver Nuggets legend, former 
Syracuse legend, where he's 

982
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,280
wants to do it himself a little 
bit and needs to let the rest of

983
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,800
the team in. 
But I think he feels the 

984
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,040
pressure to do things on his 
own. 

985
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,920
We're starting to see him now 
make make his mark as a true 

986
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:13,560
leader now an actual leader. 
And I guess, you know, as often 

987
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,080
happens in teams where egos get 
in the way. 

988
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,520
I think there's been some talk 
that mellow with in terms of his

989
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,640
relationship with his teammates 
is kind of was kind of akin to 

990
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,520
what happened above Rook's Rest.
I will leave it there, yeah. 

991
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,640
Sometimes it's the team mates do
fight each other, don't they? 

992
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,080
Yeah, that's pretty cool. 
I like it. 

993
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,920
I like one for the NBA fans. 
You got any more there on the 

994
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,000
top of the top of your head? 
Oh gosh. 

995
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,040
How about? 
I mean, who are your Dragons? 

996
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:45,880
Yeah, who's a dragon? 
Let's go with the. 

997
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:46,400
Dragon. 
Yeah. 

998
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,080
Who's Vegar? 
Who's the Vegar? 

999
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,000
Vegar is LeBron James. 
Both very very old. 

1000
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,200
The oldest beasts in the game. 
Literally the oldest beasts 

1001
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,480
currently alive in the game. 
Slow to rouse but once roused. 

1002
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,320
Quite ferocious sounds really. 
Appropriate. 

1003
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,440
I like it. 
Yeah, Bogsy. 

1004
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:06,720
Says says. 
It's super chats. 

1005
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,720
It's a small token for almost a 
decade of watching guys. 

1006
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:10,480
Well, thanks, Bogsy. 
We hopefully the next decade 

1007
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,680
will be just as fun. 
Yeah, so the fish feed and the 

1008
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,000
butcher's ball, those are kind 
of related battles. 

1009
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,040
Let's talk a little bit about 
those. 

1010
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,440
They won't be this season. 
They'll probably be next season.

1011
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,240
That seems like the right time 
frame for them. 

1012
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,040
It's a it's the bloodiest non 
dragon battle of the war. 

1013
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,960
The fish feed is so I'm 
wondering that's a conundrum for

1014
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:29,960
them. 
Do they want to put a lot of 

1015
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,640
budget into a battle that has 
both not not only has no 

1016
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,800
Dragons, but kind of doesn't 
have a lot of familiar faces in 

1017
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:36,920
it. 
You know, it's going to have a 

1018
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,800
lot of westerners and 
Riverlanders that we have spent 

1019
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,360
very little time with. 
One character they can put in 

1020
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,200
there, though, that I here's a 
prediction I have. 

1021
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,960
I don't I'm not guessing they're
getting rid of Roddy the ruin, 

1022
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,880
though they might. 
I'm guessing they're going to 

1023
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,240
have him just be a secondary guy
that's standing in the 

1024
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:53,840
background that maybe has a line
or two. 

1025
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,400
And Craig and Stark is actually 
going to lead the northern host.

1026
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,400
Cause that's the character they 
introduced. 

1027
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,240
That's the character they want 
to make use of him. 

1028
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,440
And here's the one that I, 
here's the thing that really 

1029
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:03,840
sold it for me. 
I'm looking reading through the 

1030
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,800
book and look at it. 
Kristen Cole's death comes right

1031
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,280
after the butcher's ball, after 
the fish feed. 

1032
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,600
And he's tries to like fight all
those guys at once. 

1033
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,320
Like, well, let's just, you just
fight me now. 

1034
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:17,960
And, and they shoot him down 
right. 

1035
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,920
And it's, it's, it's Roddy the 
ruin who says we'll have no 

1036
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,040
songs about how brave you died, 
Kingslayer. 

1037
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,240
So that imagine is it Tom 
Taylor? 

1038
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:28,280
That's his name, right? 
The the Craig, an actor who has 

1039
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,080
such a great voice. 
Yet another Tom. 

1040
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,120
He would deliver. 
That line so well, so I don't 

1041
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,000
know, it can't be head cannon 
yet, but I think that works. 

1042
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,040
What do you think about that and
just general thoughts on the 

1043
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,040
fish feed and the butchers ball?
Like the butchers ball, seems 

1044
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:46,360
like it has to be so cinematic. 
No dragon, I think if I. 

1045
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,200
Was to pick a battle that would 
happen off screen. 

1046
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,800
It might be the fish feed for 
the reasons you mentioned, 

1047
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,640
because it's huge, because 
there's not really a notable 

1048
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,120
person in it unless they make a 
change like you said. 

1049
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,520
At the same time, gosh, I wonder
it does make I I think from a 

1050
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,400
purely adaptive point of view, 
it would make sense to say, 

1051
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,520
well, do we really need this 
Roddy the ruin character and why

1052
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,080
don't we just put Craigen down 
there? 

1053
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:16,760
At the same time, Gosh, I wonder
because it's kind of cool, Craig

1054
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,880
and coming in later and being 
like, enough with the madness, 

1055
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:25,200
you know, into this. 
Gosh, I don't know that, said I 

1056
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,680
I could see a world in the in 
which the fish feed is kind of 

1057
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,440
not shown. 
It's basically just like a 

1058
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,560
massive massacre. 
Yeah, you've got also got water 

1059
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,360
involved, which feels like it 
gets really expensive. 

1060
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,200
Yep. 
People drowning and all. 

1061
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:40,080
That, yeah, that's weird. 
Yeah. 

1062
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,120
And I think Touche's point. 
Like the Butcher's Ball feels 

1063
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,400
like the more cinematic one you 
wonder if they'll match it into.

1064
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,800
One thing maybe, and it's the 
one that I feel that they. 

1065
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,840
Have set up foreshadowing for in
the show and we pointed out 

1066
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,960
Christian Cole walking around 
and seeing what he thinks are 

1067
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,760
are are real people alive people
Ashman. 

1068
00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:59,240
And instead he's. 
Gonna think that. 

1069
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,880
These are corpses and they're 
real people. 

1070
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:02,400
He's going to have this 
inversion. 

1071
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,920
And I don't know, I think it's 
just such good TV. 

1072
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,000
It's going to be so yeah, I I 
think they can't skip it. 

1073
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,560
It's got so much potential. 
You're right, because I think 

1074
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,920
also the whole the point about 
Kristen Cole's trauma being 

1075
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,120
raised at Rooks Rest and how 
that's going to like, you think 

1076
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,720
that was traumatic, How about 
how about let's round out your 

1077
00:54:20,720 --> 00:54:23,440
nightmares with an entirely 
different flavor of horror? 

1078
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,480
Two skips of mint macabre, 
please. 

1079
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:26,600
Yeah. 
You know. 

1080
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,760
I love that scene where he's 
from this episode that we're 

1081
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,960
talking about, where, you know, 
Allison goes through with the 

1082
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,720
courtyard and is like, hey, what
the fuck, man? 

1083
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:40,520
Like you're. 
Not going to support. 

1084
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,440
Me and and after everything, 
after all the stuff and like, 

1085
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:48,360
your loyalty to like, flowers at
night and then flies away like a

1086
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,400
moth. 
And it just felt like. 

1087
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,920
I love thinking of Kristen Cole 
as like everybody's terrible 

1088
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,400
ex-boyfriend. 
And he really plays into it in 

1089
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,960
that scene where he immediately,
you know, like, Allison's 

1090
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,160
unburdening her anxiety and her 
hurt to him. 

1091
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,600
And he's immediately like, yeah,
but let me tell you what I'm 

1092
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,200
going through, OK? 
Rook's Rest was so bad. 

1093
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,280
Like, all of a sudden he like, 
well, like, listen, you have to 

1094
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,880
enough with that. 
I got to tell you how bad it 

1095
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,560
really is because of Rook's 
Rest. 

1096
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,040
And at the same time, like, of 
course he is traumatized. 

1097
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,040
I think this is you're starting 
to see Kristen Cole. 

1098
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,120
I think Kristen Cole thought, 
you know what, I'm a like I'm 

1099
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,800
crushing it. 
I'm knocking over castles. 

1100
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,920
It's not a problem. 
And I think after Rooks rest, 

1101
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,760
he's like, how the how do we 
fight this? 

1102
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,880
How why are we out here? 
Like let the Dragons handle it? 

1103
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,680
Like why are we here? 
What's my role? 

1104
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,760
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's that's good. 

1105
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,040
I like that. 
That's a good take. 

1106
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,720
Yeah. 
I do like that they're bringing 

1107
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,200
that out of Kristen Cole. 
They're making, they're rounding

1108
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,200
him out more as a character in 
that way and giving him like 

1109
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,040
he's, he's got some, you know, 
feelings, emotions and all that.

1110
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,760
And he's always like, he's he's 
been in that position where he's

1111
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,720
not. 
He says he's lowborn and and 

1112
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,120
half Dornish. 
He gets there's a lot of 

1113
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,840
prejudice aimed at him and he 
keeps getting promoted without 

1114
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,520
necessarily deserving it. 
So puts him in this position 

1115
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,040
where he's like, I got to earn 
this thing that I didn't earn. 

1116
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,680
And and I don't want to step on 
any toes. 

1117
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:16,640
And you can really see that with
the way he talks to Allison, how

1118
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,240
he's just like, he's just going 
along with it. 

1119
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:21,800
He's like, yeah, I don't want to
do this, but I'm going along 

1120
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:23,360
with it. 
And here's the arguments that I 

1121
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,560
can make to sort of support 
myself. 

1122
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,240
Dom asks. 
Last time you were on the show, 

1123
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,240
this is that reference to last 
time you you said that one of 

1124
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:34,120
your favorite things about Hadi 
was the ability to make additive

1125
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,160
changes to the text. 
It's got it's got more room for 

1126
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,280
that on as long as fire. 
The changes are more like, well,

1127
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:40,840
we have to change things. 
This won't work. 

1128
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,680
Instead of here, it's like, 
well, we need to add things. 

1129
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,400
There's only 400 words between 
Rooks Rest and Eric Aric, so we 

1130
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,360
got to add stuff. 
The character, like you said, 

1131
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,800
the maesters don't like outline 
characters personalities very 

1132
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,880
well. 
So other than the dog is the 

1133
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,160
question, what's your favorite 
change from Season 2 or maybe in

1134
00:56:58,160 --> 00:56:59,600
general? 
The the question says Season 2, 

1135
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:00,840
but you can expand that if you 
want. 

1136
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,800
There's so many. 
Like I I I love the Raniera 

1137
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,480
Allison secret summit. 
I thought that was really, 

1138
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:08,760
really interesting as a back 
channel. 

1139
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,120
It made sense for their 
characters and it made sense as 

1140
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,120
a subtextual read between the 
lines things when you when you 

1141
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,920
reread the book. 
I love everything that's taking 

1142
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:24,480
place in Harrenhal is wonderful,
you know, and it really sets the

1143
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,960
stage for the spookiness of 
Alice Rivers. 

1144
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:32,720
And also, I think, you know, you
forget about what a weird place 

1145
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,160
the Riverlands are. 
And Harrenhal is in particular 

1146
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,640
right on the shore of the God's 
Eye. 

1147
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,880
Do the children of the forest 
still live there in the middle 

1148
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,840
of that? 
Like this is a weird and magical

1149
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,200
place. 
And I love that seeping through 

1150
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:49,680
into Heron Hall. 
That's a wonderful one. 

1151
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,800
And I loved, you know, I loved, 
I love the idea. 

1152
00:57:54,920 --> 00:58:00,760
I love the addition that Eamond 
doesn't just become Prince 

1153
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:06,000
Regent because it made sense. 
He actively took a role in 

1154
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,320
making that happen. 
I think that makes a lot of 

1155
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,960
sense for him. 
And that was, I thought that was

1156
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,080
so cool. 
I thought that was really cool 

1157
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,080
and interesting and brought out 
the IT just made him seem like 

1158
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,480
such a much more dangerous 
figure than he already was. 

1159
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,000
Yeah, I do. 
Like the change to to Amon to. 

1160
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,960
I mean, all the characters have 
been changed, like their because

1161
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,640
their personality has been 
fleshed out. 

1162
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,400
But yeah, his is particularly 
strong. 

1163
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,520
And I totally agree with you 
about Harrenhal. 

1164
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,400
That's a really good change, 
just adding so much. 

1165
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,720
And then like, and like we 
alluded to earlier, they had to 

1166
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,520
make changes there. 
Like Damon's just like, hey 

1167
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,440
everybody, let's go. 
And they show up like, yeah, 

1168
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,360
yeah, yeah, OK, yeah. 
How'd that happen? 

1169
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,440
They need sores, they need 
Arbor, they need horns with the 

1170
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,920
other. 
Like how did the like TV is not 

1171
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:48,720
going? 
To go with that, I'm 

1172
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,480
appreciating them adding stuff 
for. 

1173
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,840
Jace, I feel like he's really 
benefited from that character. 

1174
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,120
In general. 
I feel it's so flat in the book 

1175
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,680
and I so that's one that I feel 
if and some great stuff too. 

1176
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:02,240
Yeah, his personality is it's. 
Hard to make his personality 

1177
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,000
shine through in the book or any
other personality shine through.

1178
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,160
It's it's And he since he has a 
significant amount of screen 

1179
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,520
time, he's so important. 
Yeah, it makes sense to give him

1180
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,120
that. 
So let's see. 

1181
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:15,480
Let's take a few more questions.
Here we have Urias. 

1182
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,680
Tosh asks will Game and pale 
hair be Aegon's bastard that we 

1183
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,440
already saw. 
It's a great question. 

1184
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,440
I mean, it's set up like there's
certainly the groundwork is 

1185
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,680
there for gaming pale hair to be
Aegon's bastard. 

1186
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,000
There's other possibilities. 
It could even be Amon's since 

1187
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:31,480
Amon has a relationship with 
Sylvie. 

1188
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,640
You never know. 
Or had a relationship with 

1189
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:34,880
Sylvie. 
I think that's over with now, 

1190
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,080
but I'm inclined to think it'll 
be. 

1191
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:40,680
A different kid and that just 
set up the fact that Aegon is 

1192
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:42,560
having bastards all over the 
place. 

1193
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,080
That's just my gut, but I don't 
know what you guys think. 

1194
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,800
I think that that. 
That feels like a very plausible

1195
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,680
way to go. 
I mean, as we saw in season one,

1196
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,240
like Aegon's been, there's a lot
of bastards out there. 

1197
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,240
He's been at this a while. 
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. 

1198
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,320
Yeah, they've no choice. 
They have no shortage of 

1199
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:03,840
options. 
Like I it's hard to predict 

1200
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,680
which one they'll choose, but I 
like the question because it 

1201
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,760
enables us to point that out 
Like, well, they're they 

1202
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,040
actually have a lot of choices 
here. 

1203
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,920
Aegon would make a lot of sense,
but they do have other options. 

1204
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,080
Question from Ranabir Mitch Ryan
Condahl on the inside. 

1205
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,080
The episode talks about the 
small folk remembering Melees 

1206
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,200
and Rainey's from long ago and 
they have good memories of them.

1207
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,680
So did they just forget about 
the dragon pit event during 

1208
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,640
Aegon's coronation? 
Are we to assume that the small 

1209
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,600
folk don't care about the 
thousands that died due to 

1210
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,560
melees? 
I personally expected some 

1211
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:30,960
cheers towards seeing the dragon
head. 

1212
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,800
Well, a couple things, a couple 
different ways to answer this 

1213
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,920
question. 
I'll start it off and kick it 

1214
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,840
over to Jason. 
I don't think thousands of 

1215
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,360
people died. 
I don't think that's possible. 

1216
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:43,960
I don't think it would probably.
It's probably was all hundreds 

1217
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,000
at most, which is still a lot, 
but that still tells you that 

1218
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,760
maybe news didn't spread quite 
so much as we might have 

1219
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,480
thought. 
Also, the Targaryens, the kings,

1220
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,560
the Lords, they get away with a 
lot of crap. 

1221
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,040
Real world politicians get away 
with crapping all over their 

1222
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,600
supporters, doing all sorts of 
stuff, stiffing them on bills, 

1223
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,880
hurting them physically. 
You know, you've got all sorts 

1224
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,960
of world leaders that have been 
re elected after doing horrible 

1225
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,040
things to people that vote for 
them again or support their 

1226
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,600
ascendancy. 
So I I don't think that there 

1227
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,440
would be, I don't know that this
hatred of Meilis is necessarily 

1228
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,840
that should be assumed as well 
as not necessarily assuming that

1229
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,080
everybody would have even heard 
about it. 

1230
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,600
Yeah, I agree with you. 
On all those counts. 

1231
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:32,040
And I also think as we saw in in
this episode, this is also a 

1232
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:36,120
very superstitious time. 
And I think there's a world in 

1233
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,520
which some of the small folk 
might have said, well, you know,

1234
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,120
when Viserys was running things,
it was very Placid. 

1235
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:49,640
And if Viserys wishes had been 
carried out, then none of this 

1236
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,360
chaos would have been visited on
us. 

1237
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,400
And it was only because this 
usurper came that this chaos 

1238
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,240
came. 
You know, you know, for 

1239
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:03,040
instance, it's Rainirez, the one
that's enforcing a blockade 

1240
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,400
around the city. 
She's not getting blamed for the

1241
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,040
fact that there's people 
starving the streets. 

1242
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,880
That's like we're wondering what
the what they're doing up at the

1243
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,440
Red Keep, you know, like what, 
why aren't they providing for 

1244
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,040
us? 
And so I think that there is, I 

1245
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:21,000
think it, it absolutely tracks 
that the blame wouldn't 

1246
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:25,240
necessarily go in a straight 
line to the, to the person or 

1247
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,920
the entity that you would expect
would get the blame for 

1248
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,320
something like this. 
I think this is a There's a lot 

1249
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,760
of latitude for people to blame 
Aegon and his family. 

1250
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,360
Yeah. 
And I think there. 

1251
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,480
Are people mad about it? 
Not to say that no one's upset 

1252
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,080
about it, like people who lost 
their loved ones would would say

1253
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:44,240
that, but it's such a small like
this is a city that probably 

1254
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,720
might have a population of of 
quarter of quarter million or 

1255
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,680
even half a million maybe and a 
few 100 people. 

1256
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,440
I don't know that that's going 
to be enough, especially because

1257
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,600
like you said, like when they 
roll in on the thing, they're 

1258
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:55,960
like, I thought the Dragons were
gods. 

1259
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,040
So like a God, like being that 
you have that kind of reverence 

1260
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,640
for if it kills some people, 
your mindset is those people, 

1261
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:05,720
like that's that's OK. 
Like they not that they deserved

1262
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,240
it, but that that's just the the
gods are allowed to do that. 

1263
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:09,440
Yeah, maybe like you're saying, 
a. 

1264
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,760
Couple some people, a handful of
people have the thought they 

1265
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,320
were like, man, that was messed 
up. 

1266
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,680
They killed my my brother. 
But probably most of those 

1267
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,560
people like, wow, what an act of
God, or wow those Targaryen that

1268
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,600
they shouldn't be usurping the 
rightful ruler or they think any

1269
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,120
number of ways that they spin 
it. 

1270
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,280
But I don't think it's a plottal
or unreasonable or anything for 

1271
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,040
the small folk to not hate 
Melis. 

1272
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,840
The thing that I thought I think
that they should have done 

1273
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:40,880
probably is that if Christian 
Cole was a cannier propagandist,

1274
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,840
he would have spun it by 
bringing it up. 

1275
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,960
But the dragon, The horses? 
The dragon pit. 

1276
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,560
Yeah, and Justice. 
For the dragon pit, yeah, it's 

1277
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,720
believable. 
To me that Kristen would fail to

1278
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,120
spin it in the best way, Right? 
Yes, he kept Otto around. 

1279
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:56,200
Otto would have figured that 
out. 

1280
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:57,560
Otto might not have paraded the 
head. 

1281
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:58,840
At all. 
But if he had, he would have 

1282
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,840
spun, spun it correctly. 
Yeah, that's a great, that's a 

1283
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,400
great point. 
So So again, I don't disagree 

1284
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:04,040
that there would be people that 
would be upset about it. 

1285
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:09,640
But given the attitude of 
commoners in Westeros, they put 

1286
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,040
up with a lot. 
Unless they're starving, like, 

1287
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:14,800
or in fear like we see them, 
they're not gonna. 

1288
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:16,800
They're mostly just gonna put up
with whatever happens to them. 

1289
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,280
They're starving. 
And then which is why they're 

1290
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,000
acting up now. 
Yeah. 

1291
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,360
You're eating people down. 
There in Flea Bottom, like you 

1292
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,720
get a bowl of brown. 
There's there's human thighs in 

1293
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:27,320
there. 
Like I think there's a different

1294
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:31,520
level of care about about 
there's just like a a different 

1295
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,120
bandwidth for suffering down 
there. 

1296
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,080
And also there's the the. 
Bigger issue is it maybe some 

1297
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:38,880
people were like, oh, that's the
dragon that good? 

1298
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:39,680
Good. 
I'm glad you did. 

1299
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,920
But the bigger overwhelming fear
is, oh, my God, like Gwen 

1300
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,480
Hightower, or rather Freddie 
Fox, the actor plays Gwen Howard

1301
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,320
put it, he said they're seeing 
the equivalent of the first 

1302
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,560
nuclear bomb dropped. 
So whatever, whatever their 

1303
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,600
personal feelings, whatever 
anger they might have towards 

1304
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,760
melees, they're more worried 
about what happens next. 

1305
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,520
Like, Rainier is going to take 
revenge for that. 

1306
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,040
And they're caught in the middle
of it, especially after the 

1307
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,560
gates get closed. 
So, yeah, it's a good question. 

1308
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,680
I'm glad we got to address that 
because there's a lot, there was

1309
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,800
a lot of a lot of debate on that
particular one. 

1310
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,320
I think I've flipped around on. 
It more than anyone, perhaps 

1311
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:16,600
because I think I was really 
wanting, expecting them to bring

1312
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,600
up this grievance and I like and
I think as I watched it, it just

1313
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,680
made sense to me why they 
wouldn't. 

1314
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,200
I think I've flipped my 
perspective on it and again, I 

1315
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,200
like I said though, I think the 
greens should bring it up and I 

1316
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,200
think the Shepherd will bring. 
It up if there is someone who 

1317
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,000
might bring it up eventually, I 
don't know if you caught this. 

1318
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,360
We actually asked Ryan Condall 
about that cause in season one 

1319
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,360
there was actually a sheep. 
There was actually a, some guy 

1320
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,040
was like, was that the shepherd?
He's like, oh, that's 

1321
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,000
interesting. 
Well, he would be out there and 

1322
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,240
aware of what's happening. 
He would know, you know, so he 

1323
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,720
would kind of, he didn't give a 
direct answer, but you know, he,

1324
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,240
he's, he appreciated that. 
That works as set up, I think, 

1325
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,880
for eventual things. 
So yeah, the question of yours, 

1326
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:57,400
I didn't, we didn't finish 
answering before. 

1327
01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:59,440
We just drifted into other 
topics. 

1328
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,120
Where is the show going to end? 
So yeah, I do think Jahira and 

1329
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,200
Egon the third bearing, like 
that's a straightforward guess. 

1330
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,840
But I can see your point that 
there's so much else they could 

1331
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,600
do because there's other plot 
lines that aren't resolved by 

1332
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:13,520
that. 
You know, there's other things 

1333
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:15,640
that are still in play, but that
seems like it. 

1334
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,320
That's my best guess. 
It's it's, it's an easy guess. 

1335
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,240
Maybe it's a little bit of a cop
out, but it still is where I 

1336
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,480
land with the, I mean the things
that aren't. 

1337
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,400
Resolved at that point, Can't 
they simply just be resolved at 

1338
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,000
that point with the timelines 
being like they can move things 

1339
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:28,960
around? 
Yeah, anything is. 

1340
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:29,960
Thick. 
Yeah, you can move. 

1341
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,120
Things around, yeah, you don't 
have to. 

1342
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:33,880
Get into unwind peak and all 
that other stuff. 

1343
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,040
Yeah. 
So like, I mean, whatever you 

1344
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,200
could say. 
That oh, they're moving Aegon 3 

1345
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,920
and and Jaira later or whatever 
your perspective is, whatever 

1346
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,720
they're moving. 
But I think that but none of 

1347
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,560
those things have to happen at 
any specific time. 

1348
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,040
We're already off on the 
timeline. 

1349
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,520
We're in like 132 right now, I 
think, and it should be 130. 

1350
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,280
You know, we're already like not
actually canonically in the 

1351
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,480
right year. 
That's true. 

1352
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:57,600
That's true. 
OK, a few more questions from 

1353
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,480
y'all here. 
Another one from Randamir. 

1354
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,680
If the goal was to make it 
evident to the audience that 

1355
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,480
Alice is planting dreams into 
Damon and toying with his dark 

1356
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,640
side, was it necessary for him 
having sex with his mom? 

1357
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,720
I do not understand exactly what
the goal was for such a scene. 

1358
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:15,360
If it's inner regret, then 
Shirley Rae Royce or Raniera or 

1359
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,640
Elena, which we those second two
we've already gotten, of course.

1360
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,080
And he thinks a better 
suggestion might have been an 

1361
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,480
actual confrontational scene 
with Paddy slash Fisiras. 

1362
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:24,800
Well, a lot of us are hoping for
that. 

1363
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:26,120
We were. 
A lot of us are hoping it builds

1364
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,120
up to that. 
So that the the end of the 

1365
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:29,840
question is why? 
Particularly the scene with 

1366
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,240
Alyssa. 
I don't have a great answer 

1367
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:33,720
here. 
Personally, I don't know why 

1368
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,680
they chose it. 
So in terms of what was it 

1369
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:36,960
necessary? 
Well, I mean, nothing is 

1370
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:38,720
necessary. 
They just they're making their, 

1371
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:39,800
you know, they're, they're doing
what they want. 

1372
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:41,880
But do you think that they're 
just saying? 

1373
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,640
Like when they look at Damon's 
character and what formed him as

1374
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,280
a person and his psyche, they 
think that this was one of the 

1375
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,840
major forming events. 
Yeah, he didn't know her. 

1376
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:52,880
He's got mother issues, Yeah, I 
think. 

1377
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,640
And I and I want to. 
Just be a little bit more 

1378
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,080
precise about something that was
about the way the question was 

1379
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,720
phrase. 
I don't think Alice is planting 

1380
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,400
anything in Damon's mind. 
I think she is certainly feeding

1381
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,360
Damon Weirwood. 
Paste or. 

1382
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:13,600
Something that is that is 
triggering these visions, 

1383
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:15,200
causing him to trip out so to 
speak. 

1384
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,960
But I think all of the stuff 
that he is seeing, he's coming 

1385
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,319
from him like he is working 
through. 

1386
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:24,120
Do you think all of that of the 
mother issues, so to speak, and 

1387
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:26,120
all the other stuff is my 
question? 

1388
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:28,160
I don't, I agree with you. 
I don't think she's thinking 

1389
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,560
specific things, but do you 
think she's attuned that she 

1390
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,000
like when she asks about his 
mother? 

1391
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,319
She seemed to know about the 
Mother dream. 

1392
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:36,040
Yeah, which is suspicious. 
To. 

1393
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:40,120
Me. 
Yeah, I don't know if she sees 

1394
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:46,040
it per SE, but I think she 
somehow is aware of it. 

1395
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,439
I don't know that she's well. 
She can hear whispers on the 

1396
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,319
wind. 
Maybe that is part of it, you 

1397
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:52,920
know, maybe she can hear what's 
coming from him or maybe that's 

1398
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,200
coming from the where would tree
and she picks. 

1399
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,479
It's like a frequency she's 
attuned to. 

1400
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,000
Asleep, actually. 
That's the other thing. 

1401
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,359
Is he should you know, he is he 
awake? 

1402
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:02,160
Is he asleep in a lot of these 
moments? 

1403
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:07,279
I think it's unclear and I think
that it's quite plausible to me 

1404
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:09,760
that she's just listening to all
the stuff that he's saying when 

1405
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,479
he is quote, UN quote, asleep, 
even though it seems like the 

1406
01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:16,479
the barrier between sleep and 
waking with him is increasingly 

1407
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,240
thin. 
But yeah, I don't think she's 

1408
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:20,359
implanting those things. 
I think those are the things 

1409
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,640
that are coming up. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

1410
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,200
I agree with that. 
I don't think they're. 

1411
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:28,439
Planted I've, I, I at first 
thought she was just astute and,

1412
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,000
and could kind of read him, but 
I lately think that she might 

1413
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:38,560
have some method of actually 
knowing what he's seeing in some

1414
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:40,479
way. 
But I, I still don't know what. 

1415
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:42,439
Maybe. 
But again, he's sleeping in a 

1416
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:43,880
Weerwood bed. 
He's having these Weerwood 

1417
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:45,200
dreams. 
Maybe there's some Weerwood net 

1418
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:49,720
type thing, which again, doesn't
lead to control or implantation.

1419
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:52,880
Yeah. 
I think it also could be that, 

1420
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,400
you know, the things that that 
she's mentioned are things that 

1421
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:02,440
happened, while the things that 
he is dreaming about are these 

1422
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:06,840
dream versions of his own 
anxieties and emotions and 

1423
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,440
feelings towards different 
people. 

1424
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,760
So I think there's a world in 
which in the weirwood net, she's

1425
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:15,120
seen his life, snippets of his 
life and seen moments from it. 

1426
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,920
You know, the way she talks 
about like the, you know, this 

1427
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,480
is this, are you arguing with 
your wife? 

1428
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,960
And the stuff he she talks about
with his mom, that's like stuff 

1429
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:24,920
that's like, you can see that 
through the weirwood net. 

1430
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:29,160
And so I don't know what I mean 
to say is I think that she's 

1431
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,120
it's very possible she's seen 
like his life and moments from 

1432
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:36,880
his life as they happened. 
But I would doubt that she knows

1433
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:43,040
what he's seeing in the terms of
the visions themselves, because 

1434
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:44,520
he knows I like. 
That. 

1435
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:45,720
I like that take. 
Yeah, I think it is. 

1436
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,600
It's meant to be ambiguous. 
We're not meant to have clear 

1437
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,560
answers. 
But I think that works as a, you

1438
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,800
know, as a as a model for what 
might be going on. 

1439
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,600
Next question is from well, 
actually not next question. 

1440
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,000
I have AI have a take here as 
well. 

1441
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,280
Yeah. 
So the mother issues here with 

1442
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,040
Damon are are pretty well 
explained. 

1443
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,480
It doesn't necessarily lead to 
oh, well, he should have a sex 

1444
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:08,160
stream with his mom. 
But so like, yeah, it doesn't 

1445
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:09,480
that doesn't actually lead to 
that conclusion. 

1446
01:11:09,480 --> 01:11:11,960
But I can understand why he's 
thinking about his mother a lot 

1447
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,800
and why that matters because she
the lack of her presence in his 

1448
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,720
life is a big part of why he is 
the way he is. 

1449
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,880
This is somewhat like I'm no 
psychology, but this is somewhat

1450
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,840
classic of he's overly male like
meaning very strength first 

1451
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,840
doesn't like being seen as weak.
It's not just that he wants to 

1452
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,000
be strong as he feels 
embarrassed and remember like 

1453
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,360
look at how he reacted to 
Viserys being like, let me help 

1454
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,840
you in the step stones. 
Dude went on a suicide run just 

1455
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,680
reading this letter, you know, 
like his pride is way up there. 

1456
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:47,320
You know, his ego is enormous. 
So and a lot of this is he 

1457
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,240
didn't have a mother that helped
him sort of deal with some moms 

1458
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:51,520
help you deal with some of these
things. 

1459
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:52,760
They teach you a lot of these 
things. 

1460
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,280
He literally she died when he 
was three. 

1461
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:56,880
What's that thing? 
And he's thinking about Lena 

1462
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,760
You. 
Know and how his daughters don't

1463
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,240
have a mother lost their mother 
kind of feels to blame for how 

1464
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,520
it happened right and I think 
he's contradicting. 

1465
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,360
Himself and saying, oh, they 
won't follow a strong, they 

1466
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:07,520
won't follow a woman, they're 
only friends. 

1467
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:11,040
Like look, if you were telling 
them is it like helping her, 

1468
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,800
like saying follow me to help 
her, they would follow you. 

1469
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:15,760
And he's got all these strong 
women in his life. 

1470
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,360
Lena, his mother, he didn't know
her, but she was a badass. 

1471
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,680
That's like pretty well known. 
Like they talk about it in the 

1472
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,960
episode that she rode MARAC or 
she rode Melese and was the 

1473
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,480
first one to claim her and all 
that and was the fastest dragon 

1474
01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:32,120
and all this other stuff. 
So yeah, it it makes sense that 

1475
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,840
this lack of her in his life is 
going to have a pretty big 

1476
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,280
impact on him. 
Just like, you know, I never met

1477
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:39,400
my father. 
I can tell that has an impact on

1478
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:41,360
me. 
I'm not having sex dreams about 

1479
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:43,960
him, but. 
And I think it's good because. 

1480
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,080
Parallels Eamon in a in a nice 
way, which is also why they 

1481
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:49,280
might have chosen to go this 
direction because Amon I think 

1482
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:52,000
so too, I think. 
That's right, beliefs, and I 

1483
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,240
could. 
See Eamon thinking Ali Eamon 

1484
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,960
could have a vision of Allison 
saying you're my favorite son. 

1485
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,840
You should have been like it all
parallels Eamon so well. 

1486
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:01,040
So that's why they have mother 
issues. 

1487
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:01,560
You're right. 
Yeah, that's. 

1488
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,040
Why they would go in this 
direction? 

1489
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,800
I think that's, I think that's 
absolutely right. 

1490
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,120
And I think so much of the 
parallels between those 

1491
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,400
characters is about the way they
want to be seen by the people 

1492
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,360
close to them. 
Like, you know, Damon want to be

1493
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:18,320
king. 
Does he not want to be king? 

1494
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:19,960
Did he want to be king when 
Viserys was king? 

1495
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,880
It was unclear to everyone 
around him. 

1496
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:26,520
But what it did seem like he 
wanted was just to have Viserys 

1497
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:30,560
go, wow, you're you're such a 
good warrior. 

1498
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,520
You're so good. 
You would actually make a good, 

1499
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,360
good king. 
I don't think Damon wants the 

1500
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,800
responsibility. 
He does very badly with 

1501
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,360
responsibility. 
But what I think he wants is the

1502
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,440
recognition of the people around
him that he respects and loves 

1503
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,160
and for them to go. 
You'd be good at that. 

1504
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:48,920
And so he can go. 
Yeah, but I don't want to do it.

1505
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,120
I think it's I think it's a lot 
of that. 

1506
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,680
Whereas Amond wants people to 
go. 

1507
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,520
You'd be good at that. 
You should do it. 

1508
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:59,120
You like the Amon's whole. 
It's very similar to his whole 

1509
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:04,480
life has been he's been I'm I'm,
I'm reading the books, I'm 

1510
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:07,880
learning Valerian. 
I'm I'm paying attention in the 

1511
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,920
sword yard. 
Like I'm doing all these things 

1512
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,560
to show that I'm like a by the 
book ruler. 

1513
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,320
This is how it is. 
And I want somebody to recognize

1514
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,680
that I've been putting in all 
this work all this time. 

1515
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:22,040
And he wants that from Allison. 
He wanted that from Viserys. 

1516
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,440
He wants that from his brother. 
And he's not getting it. 

1517
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:25,760
Yeah, he's not. 
That's. 

1518
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,120
I really like this. 
This is works out really well in

1519
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,160
terms of trying to understand 
his psyche and the whole 

1520
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,280
parallel to Amond. 
That's really good. 

1521
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:35,160
And this next question actually 
relates to this. 

1522
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:40,320
We can we can segue in the very 
first episode of the show, Damon

1523
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:43,440
was pretty excited to receive 
the love of the crowd. 

1524
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:45,720
He he celebrated prematurely 
even, right? 

1525
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:47,840
He he didn't, he hadn't actually
beaten Kristen. 

1526
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,640
And he's like, everybody's like 
cheering for the Prince of the 

1527
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,240
city. 
He loved that. 

1528
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:54,640
And again, like, he's not he 
didn't get that from his mother.

1529
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:56,600
Maybe. 
So he loves the popularity. 

1530
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,160
So the question is from Michael 
M. 

1531
01:14:58,440 --> 01:15:00,520
We know from the book that it's 
the small folk in the Riverlands

1532
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,040
that answer Damon's call to arms
before the Lord's due. 

1533
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:05,440
Do you think the scene with 
Damon chopping wood is supposed 

1534
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:07,600
to hint had a man of the people 
vibe? 

1535
01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,240
Is it possible Damon is actually
more likable to the small folk 

1536
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,720
than he is to the other nobles? 
The show has demonstrated that 

1537
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,240
members of the gold cloak seem 
to like him, which could be 

1538
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,760
additional proof that he has 
better reputation or reputation 

1539
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:21,000
with non nobles. 
Yes that's true and I like this 

1540
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,360
this line of thinking because I 
do think that this could be a 

1541
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,200
big part of how Damon reverses 
course in the Riverlands, which 

1542
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:29,480
of course at the end of episode 
5 is going horribly for him. 

1543
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:34,040
He's made. 
Arguably, he's made negative 

1544
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:36,080
progress in building an army 
chair. 

1545
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,280
It seems to be the case at this 
point you're you're supposed to 

1546
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,000
get. 
About 5 to 10,000 men. 

1547
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,000
How many do you have about -500?
Actually I have negative by the 

1548
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,480
way, no and by the. 
Way outfitting those men. 

1549
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:50,920
We have no money. 
Yeah, we have put it on my card.

1550
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:54,240
I don't have my card with me, 
but eventually we'll pay for it.

1551
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,920
So, so I think that might be 
part of how what happens 

1552
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,960
because, because that's the book
plot that the, the fact that so 

1553
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,320
many people rise up and follow 
Damon now in the book, it's 

1554
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:07,600
because of Rainiera. 
They could spin it a different 

1555
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:09,800
way, or maybe it will be because
of Rainiera, because of the 

1556
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,600
stuff about Viserys little girl 
brought peace, you know, or, or 

1557
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,000
Viserys had peace. 
So why not follow in his wishes?

1558
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,280
So that could be how it goes. 
I I see that working out pretty 

1559
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:21,360
well. 
And yes, we the gold cloak thing

1560
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:22,920
that's almost certainly still in
play. 

1561
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,480
He's probably that's they're 
probably going to help him get 

1562
01:16:25,480 --> 01:16:27,560
in the city. 
The book says that. 

1563
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,000
So I'm guessing that'll be the 
same. 

1564
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:32,000
But yeah. 
And then this comes back to what

1565
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,320
we were saying about Melys and 
Kristen Cole and what people 

1566
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,240
know and what they don't know. 
Yeah, he just sent all those 

1567
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:39,440
banners into Raid Brackenlands. 
But how much of that news is 

1568
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:42,160
going to get to other people? 
To other Lords? 

1569
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,280
They'll find out they have 
already. 

1570
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:47,440
But like other common folk, do 
Blackwood commoners know? 

1571
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:50,480
Would they even care? 
Or they might be like yay, would

1572
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:54,120
Vance commoners even find out? 
Would Fray commoners even learn 

1573
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,120
about this? 
They would get rumors of that 

1574
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,520
were that have been told by 5 
different people before they got

1575
01:16:58,520 --> 01:16:59,440
them. 
They probably heard something. 

1576
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:03,160
They probably heard that Karaxis
bit the head off of, you know, 

1577
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:08,360
a, a, a bear in the Riverlands. 
And now, yeah, they just heard 

1578
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,760
stuff that isn't true. 
So what they've heard is is hard

1579
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,160
to figure. 
Yeah, it's interesting. 

1580
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:21,800
I'll say this, I think Damon is 
you put your finger on it. 

1581
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,480
He's making negative progress. 
Not only he's making negative 

1582
01:17:24,480 --> 01:17:30,720
progress, he is at this point in
the story got a pretty bad image

1583
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:36,480
problem as the known architect 
of a horrific child murder. 

1584
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,800
You know that fact publicized 
far and wide by the greenside as

1585
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:47,760
as engineered by Otto Hightower.
So how he does it, it will be 

1586
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:50,800
interesting to see. 
Is it by force? 

1587
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,400
Is it by force of his dragon? 
Is certainly is. 

1588
01:17:54,720 --> 01:18:02,600
He's wouldn't be the first Lord 
King, leader of an army that 

1589
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,240
people didn't like. 
So we will see. 

1590
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:08,200
I'm very interested to see how 
that works out. 

1591
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:09,560
Yeah, me too. 
Me too. 

1592
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:10,960
Yeah, it's, it's it's very 
curious. 

1593
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:14,040
And this here, this leads us to 
another somewhat related 

1594
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,880
question from Thomas. 
My fear when they chose to dance

1595
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,320
was the lack of likable 
characters. 

1596
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,360
The show has, in my opinion, 
made great efforts to make 

1597
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:21,680
certain characters more 
sympathetic. 

1598
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:23,920
Do you feel that decision has 
made the show better or has it 

1599
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,000
watered down some of the most 
anticipated moments? 

1600
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,040
Yeah, they definitely. 
I would agree with the first 

1601
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:29,720
part for sure. 
They have the the the dance does

1602
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,800
have a lack of likable 
characters, but I think likeable

1603
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:38,960
is is is a very permeable term 
Like, like Cersei wasn't likable

1604
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,640
at first in Game of Thrones, but
people ended up loving her in 

1605
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,320
the long term, even as she got 
more and more villainous. 

1606
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,920
So likable can even. 
Be villainous and likable. 

1607
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:51,440
People like a mess. 
Yeah, well, it's interesting, 

1608
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:55,640
you know, like the Fire and 
Blood is and the other novellas 

1609
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:59,560
are pretty dry, honestly, in 
terms of characterization. 

1610
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:05,960
It's mostly plot driven. 
So I mean, I think just the 

1611
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,800
efforts in bringing these 
characters to life have I think 

1612
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:16,040
greatly added to to making even 
some of the smaller moments just

1613
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,720
like leap out. 
Like I care so much more about 

1614
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,160
Allison than I thought I would. 
And I think that's because of 

1615
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:24,080
the great job the writing stuff 
has done. 

1616
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,240
And Olivia Cook like killing it,
Yeah. 

1617
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:29,880
She's so. 
Good. 

1618
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,360
She's so good. 
And yeah, I think that they've 

1619
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:38,040
they've mainly made, you know, a
character can be bad or good and

1620
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:39,520
it just matters. 
Like you connect with that 

1621
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,040
person, you know, like Tony 
Soprano was a piece of shit and 

1622
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,240
people fucking love you. 
Give us an example on Monday. 

1623
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:45,240
That's. 
Awesome. 

1624
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,000
So I I think that they've done. 
A great job with the characters 

1625
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:53,560
starting from a from a from a 
source material that was pretty 

1626
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:57,320
dry pretty you know bloodless in
the character sense not 

1627
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:01,800
bloodless in obviously the blood
sense but like pretty bloodless 

1628
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,560
in terms of how the characters 
felt you know they didn't 

1629
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,640
necessarily leap off the page 
and here they're. 

1630
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:10,880
I just think the 
characterizations have been 

1631
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:12,160
wonderful. 
So I think they've added a lot. 

1632
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:13,320
Yeah. 
What do you, what do you guys 

1633
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:14,640
think? 
I I totally agree. 

1634
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,480
I think it's. 
Mostly been a huge plus because 

1635
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,120
action doesn't work if you don't
have tension. 

1636
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:21,640
These where you could think of 
it being. 

1637
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,520
Worse characterization? 
I don't think so. 

1638
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:26,800
You know what I mean? 
I mean like I would go so. 

1639
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,000
Far as to say. 
That I think every character 

1640
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,480
that is on screen that is is is 
better. 

1641
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:33,880
I can't. 
Yeah, I can't, not there's. 

1642
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:36,560
One that comes to mind aren't on
screen. 

1643
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:38,720
And maybe that's a 
disappointment that they didn't 

1644
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:39,960
just at all. 
Yeah, if the characters. 

1645
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,680
Translated, they're. 
Generally richer for it. 

1646
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,040
Yeah, I agree. 
Like you can't. 

1647
01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:45,760
Say that about the original 
show, because they, those 

1648
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,040
characters were very filled out 
and the changes sometimes made 

1649
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:50,560
them worse, or often did often. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1650
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:53,640
But here they're not over 
exciting what George has done. 

1651
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,000
They're filling out something 
was never there in the 1st 

1652
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:57,640
place. 
Yeah, like Rooks Rest is a great

1653
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:00,160
example to me. 
The battle of Rooks in the book,

1654
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:02,800
it's cool. 
It's like, whoa, wow, I'm 

1655
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:04,960
picturing that. 
But I had no attachment to the 

1656
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:07,560
characters. 
I'm like Aegon, Amond, Cole. 

1657
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,120
These are guys, you know, 
they're just dudes. 

1658
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,680
But this time I was like, wow, I
really felt Aegons, like, need 

1659
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:16,560
to be there to prove himself. 
Eamon's, like, ruthless 

1660
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:18,280
plotting. 
Cole thinking he knew it was 

1661
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:20,280
coming only to become 
traumatized afterwards. 

1662
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:22,240
Yeah, that was good. 
That added so much to it. 

1663
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:23,200
Yeah. 
There's a lot more dimension. 

1664
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:24,800
Yeah. 
So green. 

1665
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,760
All right. 
Scott of Grey Water Watch asks 

1666
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,680
will we see the Isle of Faces? 
OK, so why might we see it? 

1667
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,960
We've got Damon stuff. 
We got maybe Adam Valerian maybe

1668
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:36,240
going there. 
But I'm going to guess. 

1669
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,600
No, I'm going to. 
I'm going to downplay that 

1670
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:40,360
possibility. 
It's too hard for them to 

1671
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,200
actually. 
Show without any concrete 

1672
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:45,200
answers like like if the show 
happened after winds and we saw 

1673
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,080
it in winds first, then yeah, 
I'd say yes. 

1674
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,120
But without seeing it A Song of 
Ice and Fire, no, it's hard to 

1675
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:50,960
see. 
I bet you we. 

1676
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,760
See it from a distance. 
OK, yeah, that I don't know. 

1677
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,480
I don't know if we ever go 
there, but it seems implausible 

1678
01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:01,200
to me that with Herron Hall is a
major location that you wouldn't

1679
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:04,800
even just see it like in the. 
Back yeah yeah so I think that 

1680
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:06,040
we. 
See it in the back, the ground 

1681
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,200
of a trailer. 
Shot in fact, like we have we 

1682
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:12,480
have seen it the aisle, but you 
know the idea of whether we get 

1683
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:15,280
boots on the ground no, I don't 
think we get boots on the. 

1684
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,760
Ground. 
I would, I would, I would love 

1685
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:21,560
to get boots on the ground. 
And maybe, you know, we talked 

1686
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,680
earlier about the fact that Visa
V Harrenhal, a lot of our 

1687
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:26,760
characters just kind of 
mysteriously disappear from the 

1688
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,000
scene. 
Maybe there's a world in which 

1689
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,640
the God's eye is involved in 
that. 

1690
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:32,560
That would be really cool. 
But I don't know. 

1691
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,520
Gosh I would love it though. 
Do you have a guess? 

1692
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:39,480
As to how season three will end,
we we have a sort of an idea of 

1693
01:22:39,480 --> 01:22:42,360
how season 2 might end, but you 
have a thought on the big 

1694
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,240
moment. 
We talked earlier maybe it could

1695
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,600
be Damon and Amon, but we both 
seem to think that's more of a 

1696
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,200
likely season four thing. 
So what's like a big thing that 

1697
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,520
could do at the end of season 3 
instead? 

1698
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,080
It seems maybe too soon for the 
storming of the dragon Pip, but 

1699
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,320
that's one idea I had as as 
possibly. 

1700
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,720
That seems kind of fast though. 
Maybe a different battle, maybe 

1701
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:01,840
something like maybe that could 
be the Butcher's ball. 

1702
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,200
Maybe the end of season three 
could be Kristen Cole's death or

1703
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:06,960
around there. 
Just tossing some ideas at you 

1704
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,360
in case you don't have a No, I 
think that the. 

1705
01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:12,400
Butcher's ball, You know what's 
the I think the OR Tumbleton, 

1706
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,440
maybe. 
Tumbleton could be good. 

1707
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:20,520
I just going off of pacing from 
Game of Thrones era to House the

1708
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,600
Dragon era. 
It usually feels like the 

1709
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:27,800
penultimate episode is the 
banger and then we end on 

1710
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:33,960
something more quiet. 
So I could see Butcher's Ball 

1711
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:40,040
being a penultimate and then and
then pressure mounting in King's

1712
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:45,040
Landing, leaving that as like 
the but they have a, they get a 

1713
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:46,280
win. 
But then they have something 

1714
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:50,320
that goes bad, yeah. 
Leaving that as like a 

1715
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:53,360
cliffhanger going into season 
four. 

1716
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:56,640
But I think what's cool is 
there's clearly a lot of I think

1717
01:23:56,640 --> 01:23:58,240
there's a lot of ways they can 
go. 

1718
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,360
Yeah. 
What do you think they? 

1719
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:01,960
Could have. 
Rainier get ejected. 

1720
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:06,880
From King's Landing at the end 
of season three, Which would 

1721
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,280
kick off her flight, her running
away on the road and, and all 

1722
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,200
which leads back to Dragonstone,
which I think they will push as 

1723
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:16,200
close to the end as possible, 
which, you know, in the book 

1724
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:18,440
it's, it's a little bit more. 
It's a little sooner than that, 

1725
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:22,680
but how soon? 
In season three, do you think 

1726
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:25,440
she arrives in King's Landing? 
Oh. 

1727
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:28,840
I think that would tell us a 
lot. 

1728
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:29,960
Right. 
Yeah, pretty quickly. 

1729
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:31,760
I would think it'd be kind of a 
fun way to start. 

1730
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,720
The season, assuming it's not at
the end of the season if you get

1731
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,000
the city there. 
Yeah, 'cause we'll have the 

1732
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:38,080
dragon. 
Season like that's how it 

1733
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:40,720
happens in the book y'all. 
If you don't remember the city 

1734
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:43,200
has taken Damon, you know flip 
flops with Amon. 

1735
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:47,360
He tricks Amon into leading his 
forces out then goes around him 

1736
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,280
and while Amon's taking Heron 
hall he takes the city. 

1737
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:53,040
The gold cloaks let him in. 
Corlee's ships break the 

1738
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,720
blockade to bring their soldiers
in and invade the city that way.

1739
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,560
And then the dragon seeds in 
Rainier just fly in and just 

1740
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:01,400
take up positions. 
They don't fight anyone. 

1741
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:04,520
They just we're here. 
And that could be a really boss 

1742
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,680
way to to start, you know, like 
here they are. 

1743
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,600
The Dragons are all sitting on 
the different hills and you got 

1744
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:13,160
Hugh over there, you got Alf 
over there, you got Bala maybe 

1745
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,280
who wouldn't have been part of 
it in the in the book version. 

1746
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:21,520
But I think if it starts like. 
That then what we see is, you 

1747
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:25,720
know, Renira for a very short 
period of time, exulting in her 

1748
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:31,480
win and then going downhill, 
downhill, downhill, downhill 

1749
01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:34,320
towards the end of the season 
where she's either to your 

1750
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:38,720
point, in flight or about to be 
in flight. 

1751
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:40,160
Yeah. 
And if she's in? 

1752
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,440
Flight, then Jace. 
Well, Jace has been dead for a 

1753
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:45,080
while, and Joffrey will have 
been dead by that point. 

1754
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,920
So she's just not a she's not 
the same person anymore by then.

1755
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:50,720
She's gonna be, yeah. 
Season 4, if that's the way it 

1756
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:53,840
goes, is gonna be Raniera, truly
Raniera the cruel. 

1757
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,040
Like, yeah, she's yeah Meg. 
Or with teats. 

1758
01:25:56,040 --> 01:26:00,040
As they say, yeah. 
And that, yeah, I think then we 

1759
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:03,560
get into that whole moral 
collapse of her and that will 

1760
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:04,720
be. 
That'll be hard for some people 

1761
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:06,960
to watch, I assume. 
Assuming it's it's it all 

1762
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,280
similar. 
Speaking of another character 

1763
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,320
whose death is going to be 
painful, PETA Chick asked will 

1764
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:16,640
Helena actually kill herself or 
is it being set up differently? 

1765
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,400
Maybe, maybe Larius will do it. 
Well, frankly, there's a very 

1766
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,000
good chance that's what happened
in the book, too. 

1767
01:26:21,080 --> 01:26:24,440
It's definitely not certain that
she willfully jumped that 

1768
01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:28,720
someone else might have shoved 
her because the effect it had in

1769
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:30,400
the book, when it happens, 
everybody freaks out. 

1770
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:32,600
They're like Helena. 
It's kind of like what Rainier 

1771
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,920
says, like, why would I do that 
to Helena of all people? 

1772
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:38,480
Like the the the small folk of 
King's Landing are like Helena. 

1773
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:42,560
Why would you do that to Helena?
So it and it falls on Rainiera 

1774
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,640
in the book. 
It's like, oh, you, your regime 

1775
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:46,840
did this. 
So that's why you can theorize 

1776
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:48,240
that. 
Well, the greens would know that

1777
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,600
this would blowback on Rainier. 
So Laris is like shut. 

1778
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,240
Well, he doesn't do it himself, 
but arranges for that to be 

1779
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:57,400
done, and then the blowback goes
to Rainier and it. 

1780
01:26:57,400 --> 01:26:59,480
It just seems like the kind of 
thing that could be set up. 

1781
01:26:59,480 --> 01:27:02,280
Yes, she could jump on her own. 
You think then Laurie's or you 

1782
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:03,920
think he's. 
Like your main option? 

1783
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:06,640
He's my top pick. 
Yeah, but I don't there there 

1784
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,160
are other possibilities, like it
won't be Allison, you know, like

1785
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:10,920
forcing her own daughter to 
jump, you know? 

1786
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:12,920
But there are. 
Yeah, that would be. 

1787
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:15,680
That's I think that's a very 
likely suspect. 

1788
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:20,160
That's a fascinating 1 because I
think Helena has taken on talked

1789
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,280
about, we talked about like what
are the some of the great 

1790
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,360
additions character wise, I 
mean, in Helena's front and 

1791
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:30,800
center and that right And I and 
so I think anything that has to 

1792
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:36,120
do with her from the books is up
for up in the air right now and 

1793
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:40,640
how it actually happened because
so much of everything we've seen

1794
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:43,760
from her is just not there. 
It's not didn't is nowhere 

1795
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:46,920
mentioned anywhere. 
I mean, basically her presence 

1796
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:49,120
in the books is like Helena was 
really sad and didn't come out 

1797
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:55,080
of her room like so it's it I 
think it's it's an open question

1798
01:27:55,080 --> 01:27:58,120
as to how much of anything 
having to do with her in the 

1799
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:00,440
books will actually happen as it
as written. 

1800
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,800
I agree that's that's a good. 
Way to perceive her because 

1801
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:05,400
yeah, she has been one of the 
most changed. 

1802
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:10,640
I wonder if they'll do the the 
theory that has been around for 

1803
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:14,600
the books for a while that it's,
it's unclear the way fire and 

1804
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:17,200
blood words it. 
When Damon and Amon go into the 

1805
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:21,880
drink at God's Eye, Helena's 
death is it's, it's over at 

1806
01:28:21,880 --> 01:28:24,280
King's Landing, it's said like 
this happens and then over at 

1807
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,360
King's Landing, blah blah blah 
blah blah, and Helena goes out 

1808
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:29,120
the window. 
It's it's not said to be the 

1809
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:33,000
same day, but the possibility is
that this happens 

1810
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,400
simultaneously, that his death 
is what triggers her to kill 

1811
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,520
herself. 
Now at this point in the story, 

1812
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:40,360
that doesn't really work. 
They don't have a close enough 

1813
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:43,320
relationship for her to be like,
oh, Amon's dead, I must die. 

1814
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:45,880
But people who ship those? 
Two are like, there's one. 

1815
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:48,560
Yeah. 
It's a long theory for anyone 

1816
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,760
who sees a connection between 
Helena and Amon has looked at 

1817
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:57,960
that and been like, hmm, there's
room for heartache and drama 

1818
01:28:57,960 --> 01:29:00,160
here if they want to go that 
direction. 

1819
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,440
Have you thought about that one?
Is that is that AI have thought 

1820
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:06,840
about that one? 
And I because I've seen to the 

1821
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,400
end of this season, I'm not 
going to comment at all, but 

1822
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:13,600
I'll say that these are all good
and interesting thoughts. 

1823
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:14,760
Cool. 
All right, cool. 

1824
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,880
That's sometimes the silence 
itself tells us things. 

1825
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:19,640
Let's not read too much into 
that, Jay. 

1826
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:21,800
Don't read too. 
Much into that? 

1827
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,160
Yeah, Yeah. 
OK. 

1828
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,120
A couple other questions and 
we'll call it a night. 

1829
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,440
One character who's been 
changed. 

1830
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:32,280
Another character has been 
changed a bit, or rather, she 

1831
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,280
hasn't been changed that much. 
Her dragon has. 

1832
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,200
That's Baila. 
Baila's dragon is younger in the

1833
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:39,200
book, so it kind of sidelines 
her. 

1834
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,720
So they age up her dragon a 
little bit. 

1835
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:43,480
They don't age her up. 
She's about the same age. 

1836
01:29:43,480 --> 01:29:47,480
So that enables her to be more 
involved in the story. 

1837
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:49,760
How though? 
Like what else? 

1838
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:52,000
We've seen her scout Kristen 
Cole, but they're already like, 

1839
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:53,520
your Dragon's too small for 
battle. 

1840
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:55,920
That doesn't mean it will. 
That won't change or they'll get

1841
01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:00,440
desperate or but and also after 
this last episode where she just

1842
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:03,240
had the awesome scene with 
Coralie, so that was like her 

1843
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:06,040
best scene yet. 
I'm just looking forward to more

1844
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:07,320
of her. 
But like a lot of a lot of 

1845
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:09,880
character and we know like the 
book version of her survives the

1846
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:11,240
war. 
So there's this reason for 

1847
01:30:11,240 --> 01:30:14,520
optimism that we can pin some 
hope on her little surviving the

1848
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,720
story because she survives in 
the book, although her dragon 

1849
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:19,000
probably won't. 
So that'll be sad. 

1850
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:20,520
Can I say what I'm thinking 
about? 

1851
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:26,440
Is Bayla and Alan obviously 
together eventually and and 

1852
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:27,760
whether. 
Yeah, well, you think they'll 

1853
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:28,600
set that up? 
Well, that's. 

1854
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:30,760
My question like you could. 
Say that's a marriage of 

1855
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:33,760
convenience, but I could see a 
world where they fall in love 

1856
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:35,040
and actually care about each 
other. 

1857
01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:39,360
And my thought is Baila and Jace
like they are close with one 

1858
01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:41,960
another but they're the closest 
of like they grew up together 

1859
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:44,000
like they don't ever seem 
romantic. 

1860
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,680
They never kiss, read like they 
she hugs him and touches his 

1861
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,760
shoulder. 
But like I, I don't know, like 

1862
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:50,960
it doesn't seem like they're 
sneaking off and hooking up 

1863
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:52,720
really. 
So I there's room for her to 

1864
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:53,880
fall. 
In love, yeah. 

1865
01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:57,200
It's an arranged marriage, I. 
Agree with that, although this 

1866
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:59,640
is like the best version of 
arranged marriage, one of the 

1867
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:00,920
better versions. 
Yeah, they're quite. 

1868
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,040
They're very open with each 
other about a lot of things, 

1869
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:05,800
which I think is quite 
admirable. 

1870
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:07,040
Yeah, they may not be in love, 
but they. 

1871
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,560
Have a good relationship yeah, 
they're functional. 

1872
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:11,120
They're. 
Very functional and like they 

1873
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:13,880
could fall in love, but they 
won't have time for that. 

1874
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:15,720
And I kind of honestly looking 
at the two of them, I'm like, 

1875
01:31:15,720 --> 01:31:18,760
they look so adult and grown up 
and you see you see Aegon and 

1876
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:20,320
Helena are together and have 
kids. 

1877
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:22,640
I'm like, why aren't these two 
married yet? 

1878
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:25,280
It kind of feels weird to me 
that they wouldn't just marry 

1879
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:27,800
them at this point, but I I 
think they're not 16 yet. 

1880
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:29,720
I think that's why they just 
look adult. 

1881
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:31,280
They both. 
They do look adult, but in. 

1882
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,440
The book they're they're he's 15
when he died so I guess that I I

1883
01:31:34,440 --> 01:31:36,840
thought they were aged up just. 
Because they looked so much but 

1884
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:39,160
I could believe he's I mean I 
could believe they're both 15 

1885
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,840
teens often look older. 
You I could believe anything and

1886
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:44,720
I do think they set up. 
Baila Allen a little bit by 

1887
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:49,680
having Corliss offer him, offer 
her the lordship of Driftmark, 

1888
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,600
because she's just going to 
marry the guy that gets it 

1889
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,080
instead. 
So it's still going to go to her

1890
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:55,680
kind of indirectly. 
I saw it was kind of cool. 

1891
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:59,640
It was a little indirect little 
Easter eggish vibe there. 

1892
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,040
Any other thoughts on Bayla Moon
Dancer or is that just kind of 

1893
01:32:03,040 --> 01:32:04,600
more of a wait and see? 
It's kind of, it is kind of hard

1894
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:06,000
to predict. 
It's a tough question, I guess. 

1895
01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:08,440
Well, it's kind of a kind. 
Of a wait and see I'll just say 

1896
01:32:08,440 --> 01:32:11,920
that I I thought she had some of
her best moments in this episode

1897
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,520
and I've really enjoyed 
everything I've seen from her 

1898
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:18,280
and I I feel Jace's frustration 
that Bayla gets to go off and do

1899
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,000
stuff and he just is like around
the castle like looking cool and

1900
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,240
cool clothes if he keeps 
negotiating. 

1901
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:27,240
So effectively they're going to 
have to send him one more and 

1902
01:32:27,320 --> 01:32:32,200
that dude is like showing Damon 
up like Vale N twins just boom. 

1903
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:34,520
And meanwhile, Damon's got a 
negative bargain, I thought. 

1904
01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:36,600
Too. 
Yeah, drove a pretty solid 

1905
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:38,520
bargain. 
I mean, listen, if anybody wants

1906
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:39,680
animal, they can fucking have 
it. 

1907
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,800
Yeah, a lot. 
Of. 

1908
01:32:42,040 --> 01:32:44,720
People nothing. 
People would not have been like,

1909
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:47,560
well, my mom needs more than the
crossing. 

1910
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:49,640
A lot of people would have just 
been like, OK, we'll take the 

1911
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:53,000
crossing there and all like I've
got really spoke to his his 

1912
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:55,040
negotiating. 
I've even said that. 

1913
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:58,720
That arguably Jace got fleeced a
bit here, but so did Rob, you 

1914
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:02,200
know, so like like they they 
knew that the twins are good at 

1915
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:03,800
this. 
They're like, I know we know we 

1916
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:05,200
can exact a high price out of 
you. 

1917
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:07,720
So it's like if he knows they 
know that, then he's going to 

1918
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,600
have to give give a lot too. 
So it's maybe he wasn't fleeced 

1919
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:12,920
because they know they haven't. 
They're negotiating from 

1920
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:14,480
strength. 
So I mean, you know, Heron Hall 

1921
01:33:14,480 --> 01:33:17,320
is it? 
It's a poison, yeah, and and 

1922
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:18,600
it's good. 
I love how at the. 

1923
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:20,840
End of this book or at the end 
of the at the end of the book 

1924
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:22,440
and probably at the end of the 
show, it's going to be right 

1925
01:33:22,440 --> 01:33:25,280
back where he started. 
It's like it's right back, like 

1926
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:26,520
it's. 
Nobody lives there. 

1927
01:33:26,520 --> 01:33:28,800
And it's been burned, and we 
built some stuff, but that got 

1928
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:30,920
burned again. 
So it's just got some fresh 

1929
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:34,520
ashes, you know? 
Yeah, You think they'll do the 

1930
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:36,680
the cutting his slashing of the 
tree? 

1931
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:38,640
I'm kind of guessing they won't 
'cause it's like a hard thing to

1932
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,640
portray, but I hope they do. 
I I think that's so. 

1933
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:43,720
Cinematic, I feel like. 
That's a really like. 

1934
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:47,040
Makes for interesting. 
I I I can see the scene so 

1935
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:50,680
clearly of someone like waiting 
in time passing and you see the 

1936
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:53,720
sun setting and rising and the 
more slashes appear. 

1937
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:54,840
I just, I feel like it's very 
simple. 

1938
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:56,280
That would be cool. 
I I didn't picture it. 

1939
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:58,680
That way, that's the neat way to
do it 'cause it's outside too, 

1940
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:02,440
which I, you know, of course 
it's outside, it's a tree, but 

1941
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:06,880
you know, still I don't know, 
the roots are growing. 

1942
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:09,840
Inside of her that's true. 
That trees all over the place. 

1943
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,720
My last question for you, this 
is of mine in my own theories, 

1944
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:17,400
so I'm I'm asking for validation
here or just your own idea. 

1945
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:21,200
I'm guessing that Hobart 
Hightower, who in the book who 

1946
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:23,400
drinks off white to death, 
That's going to be Otto. 

1947
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:26,160
What do you think? 
And. 

1948
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,240
I'm guessing that it would be. 
Gwaine OK, we have two theories,

1949
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,440
but neither of us thinks there's
we're introducing a second. 

1950
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:34,080
Hobert Yeah, yeah, they're. 
Not going to. 

1951
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,800
The Law of the Conservation of. 
Hobarts, you know, yeah, I would

1952
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,000
be shocked if there. 
Are many more Hightowers to 

1953
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:42,440
come? 
But I I would love it to be 

1954
01:34:42,440 --> 01:34:43,120
Otto. 
That would be fun. 

1955
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:44,760
Yeah, we have had Orman 
dimensioned. 

1956
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:47,400
But Orman, he's going to go to 
Tumbleton and die. 

1957
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:50,120
So like he's he doesn't even 
have a line in the book. 

1958
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:52,080
He just leads the troops to 
Tumbleton and then Roddy the 

1959
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:55,400
Ruin kills him and it's like so 
badass and it's like I think if.

1960
01:34:56,200 --> 01:35:00,320
If Glenn doesn't die at King's 
Landing that I'm expecting him 

1961
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:02,600
to be part of the Kyle trucks 
plot because I could see him 

1962
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:04,480
offering to drink. 
Your theory gained so much. 

1963
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,440
If if Glenn isn't killed in the 
taking of King's Landing, which 

1964
01:35:07,440 --> 01:35:09,800
again he is killed in the 
kicking of King's Landing in the

1965
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:11,720
book. 
So it's it's not, but we haven't

1966
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:13,320
really seen him with the. 
Gold cloaks yet? 

1967
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:15,280
So I don't know. 
You're right, he doesn't have a 

1968
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:16,640
gold. 
Cloak job which is how he gets 

1969
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:19,600
killed I hope he's extended 
beyond the season 'cause he's 

1970
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:22,320
funny we talked about how he has
comic he's Comic Relief value 

1971
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:25,000
but it would be kind of neat and
clean to just have him die in 

1972
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,360
the final episode the season and
that's it for his contract 

1973
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:30,280
that's it for his role that's it
for yeah so I'll be waiting 

1974
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:32,240
I'll. 
I'll become team Otto on the on 

1975
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:35,080
the Cal Trump's plot if if that 
happens. 

1976
01:35:35,840 --> 01:35:38,080
Yeah, that's it's a. 
Ways away, but yeah, I hope we 

1977
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:39,360
we. 
That's the fun. 

1978
01:35:39,360 --> 01:35:41,120
We can start thinking about it 
now, you know? 

1979
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:42,040
Why not? 
Why not? 

1980
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,000
Cool. 
Well, Jason, thank you so much 

1981
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,240
for coming. 
Did you have any last final 

1982
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:51,640
thoughts or extra shout outs or 
just anything else you wanted to

1983
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:52,800
say? 
It's so fun to have you. 

1984
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:55,040
You had so many great takes and 
it's always so much fun to to 

1985
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:57,320
chat with you about this. 
Just I want to. 

1986
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:59,520
Shout you guys out. 
As you know, as you know, I've 

1987
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,400
been listening and reading for a
long, long time and it's I'm 

1988
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,040
always so delighted to connect 
with y'all and this is my 

1989
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:10,200
favorite time of year when this 
when the shows are on and the 

1990
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:14,480
bands get back together. 
It's about the story is it's 

1991
01:36:14,480 --> 01:36:15,800
fun. 
It really is. 

1992
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:17,720
It really is. 
Yeah, it's a good time to be 

1993
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:20,680
alive, a good time to be in this
fandom for sure. 

1994
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,400
And it's the future's bright. 
We got House, we got Duncan AG 

1995
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:25,360
next year, so we won't have a 
two year wait in between. 

1996
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:28,840
We'll have it's a show every 
year and then maybe in five 

1997
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:32,240
years from now we might have 
multiple shows a year or who 

1998
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:35,120
knows just it's all it's all 
getting better y'all. 

1999
01:36:36,480 --> 01:36:38,840
OK everybody, thanks for hanging
out with us. 

2000
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:41,040
If you're listening to this 
after the back, well, we 

2001
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:44,920
appreciate that too. 
Thanks to Bran the Builder for 

2002
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:48,200
our awesome video intro. 
Thank you to Michael Klarfeld 

2003
01:36:48,200 --> 01:36:50,440
for the awesome maps that you 
see. 

2004
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:55,160
That's KLARADO x.de if you want 
to buy one for yourself. 

2005
01:36:55,160 --> 01:37:01,280
Clara doc.de on behalf of Ashea.
We'll see you next time for more

2006
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:05,600
and you know what to do. 
Until then, Valar Riritis.