1
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,880
House Lofston and their black 
bat sigil ruled Harrenhal during

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00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,280
what is arguably the darkest 
portion of its 300 year history.

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00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,000
Given what Arya and others 
experienced there, that's really

4
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,600
saying something. 
When Jamie hears of humans 

5
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,880
eating humans, he thinks of 
Maddenel Lofston, and when 

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00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,640
Brienne carries a Lofston shield
given to her by Jamie, she is 

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00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,680
repeatedly greeted with grim 
reactions. 

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00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,880
One man even pulls a dagger on 
her. 

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00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,080
While other Houses seem to have 
been corrupted or destroyed by 

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00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,400
the castle, what makes House 
Lost and so unique is how they 

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00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:30,080
became part of the bad 
reputation of Harrenhal rather 

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00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,880
than falling victim to it like 
so many of the other Houses that

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00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,600
ruled there, they have performed
differently. 

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00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,520
Instead of trying to improve the
reputation of the place, they 

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00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,080
kind of did the opposite and 
like leaned into that evil and 

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00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,200
said hey, let's make this work 
for us instead of fighting it. 

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00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,480
Consider that this is the house 
that held Herrenhall the 

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00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,720
longest, and they didn't die out
so much as they were driven out,

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00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,360
if not killed off, and not by 
ghosts or curses or suspicious 

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00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,280
fires, but by a king. 
In many ways they are the 

21
00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,280
embodiment of that ubiquitous 
Herrenhall mascot, the Bat. 

22
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,880
House Lofsten's tale of child 
abduction and cannibalism, skin 

23
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,080
changing and blood magic, 
treason and double dealing with 

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00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,880
none other than House Black Fire
madness and incestuous dealings 

25
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,120
with none other than House 
Targaryen are what we have for 

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00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,320
you today. 
As Sir Illifer said, a barefoot 

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00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,360
man looks for a boot, a chilly 
man a cloak. 

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00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,720
But who would cloak themselves 
in shame? 

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00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,320
Lord Lucas bore that bat the 
Pander and Manfred of the Black 

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00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,720
Hood his son. 
Why wear such arms, I ask 

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00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,640
myself, Unless your own sin is 
Fowler still and fresher? 

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00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,240
Well, we've got the answer to 
that. 

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00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,800
Who said it to who? 
Well, Sir Elliphor reading who 

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00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,320
he said it to, we know it was 
Sir Elliphor and what happened 

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00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,680
next and why the rumors and the 
regard the realm had for this 

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00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,440
house and still has for this 
family filled with infamous 

37
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,320
features. 
Well, we've got all that and 

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00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,600
more on this episode of History 
of Westeros Podcast. 

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00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,280
Hello and welcome back everyone 
to the first live stream of 

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00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,240
2025. 
We're looking forward to another

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00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,120
great year of content. 
It's going to be a lot of fun as

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00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,480
many of our past years have 
been. 

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00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,120
We've got a lot of things 
planned and starting with this, 

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we are still going to be doing 
most of our live streams on 

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00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,200
Sundays at this time, which is 3
Eastern. 

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00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,520
If you're catching it later, 
that's when you can catch it 

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00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,000
live. 
We'd love to have you show up 

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00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,680
live and participate in the chat
and talk to us live. 

49
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,960
But otherwise you can catch it 
on any place you listen to 

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00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,880
podcasts afterwards. 
And you can watch the video on 

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00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,080
YouTube, the edited video on 
Spotify, and of course, if you 

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00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,360
check us out on Patreon rather, 
you can get all our episodes ad 

53
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,080
free. 
Our good friend Nina contributed

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00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,320
quite a bit to this episode. 
She had some really insightful 

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00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,680
takes on themes and connections 
and parallels and just regular 

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00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,480
insight into house lost in very,
very useful, as is very common 

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00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,880
for Nina's input to us or for 
us. 

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00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,040
And her latest blog post over on
goodqueenalley.tumblr.com, 

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00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,079
that's with 1L in Alley is on 
Rhyme Red Wine. 

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00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:21,600
In fact, Nina's working on a 
significant amount of Rhyme Red 

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00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,400
Wine content that will probably 
be made into an episode, a Rhyme

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00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,600
red wine episode, one of the 
most famous Kingsguard of all 

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time, sort of the Barristan the 
Bold in a different era, maybe a

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quieter era, but no less 
interesting. 

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So that's on the horizon. 
And if you want a little tease 

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of the sort of things that could
show up in there, well check out

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00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,800
good queenalley.tumblr.com. 
If you have questions for us, 

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00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,720
you can e-mail them to 
westeroshistory@gmail.com. 

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00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,120
That's any sort of question you 
have, whether it's about this 

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00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,360
episode or other episodes or 
just you have a question for us,

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00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,200
hit us up. 
And of course, you can also ask 

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00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,640
questions live if you are here 
participating live at the end of

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00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,760
this episode, I'll mention some 
others that relate to this one 

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things that we mentioned that 
came up in the course of our 

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00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,640
discussion. 
And if you are willing or 

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00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,960
wanting to stay immersed, well, 
that's your ticket. 

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Starting with our frequent 
trivia question here. 

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00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,120
What is the first hour of night 
in Westeros called? 

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00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,240
I mean, all these hours have 
nicknames. 

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00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,560
What's that one called? 
I first made notes for a House 

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00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,400
Lofton episode. 
And it'll be, by the way, a a 

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00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,480
miracle if I get through this 
episode not mispronouncing House

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00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,360
Lofton. 
That's very hard to say. 

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00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,000
It's a tongue twister. 
But yeah, I started making notes

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00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,560
for this episode back in 2013. 
I mean, this show has only 

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00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,000
existed this podcast since like 
2012 era. 

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00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,120
So you can show you can see 
where my interest was. 

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00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,000
I've been fascinated by them a 
long since a long time ago. 

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00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,480
And well, why didn't we make an 
episode about them until now? 

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00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,360
Why blame the curse, the curse 
of Harren all yeah, that's 

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00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,720
clearly who's at fault here. 
But but honestly, that 2013, I 

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00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,440
mean, that's before the World of
Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood,

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00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,640
both of which gave us more 
information. 

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00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,640
So it's kind of a good thing 
that we waited and why the heck 

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00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,440
not? 
You know, better late than never

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00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,400
and we'll have fun with it. 
And even if we have things to 

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00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,960
add to it later, I do think 
we'll learn more about house 

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00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,920
lost in in the long run. 
But we've got a lot to cover 

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00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,120
today. 
So we have a substantial amount 

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00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,640
and that'll set us up for 
whatever happens in the future. 

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00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,720
This does have some 
companionship to our other 

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00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,960
Herron Hall episodes like The 
Old God's Eye with Joe Magician 

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00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,560
or Dreams of Damon with Quinn 
the GM, but this one has no TV 

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00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:44,840
content. 
This episode. 

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00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:46,960
I'm we're going to speculate a 
little bit at the end on how the

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00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,480
Lostons might appear on TV 
because that is likely to 

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00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,680
happen, but so far it hasn't 
because the Lostons didn't exist

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00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,480
during the time period of House 
of the Dragon and they didn't 

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00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,000
really, Well, they kind of did, 
but not really, but like very 

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00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,400
vaguely barely like a hedge 
night style. 

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00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,040
So technically they did, but not
in any way you would ever expect

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00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,720
to see them, and they certainly 
didn't exist in Game of Thrones.

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00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,240
But like I said, we are likely 
to see them, and the likely 

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00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,160
place for that is Dunkin Egg, 
the TV show and the future 

115
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,040
books. 
So that's pretty cool. 

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00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,240
So this episode is a house lore 
episode first of all. 

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00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,240
But of course, Harrenhal lore is
included because the two are 

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00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,480
inextricable here. 
Obviously House Lost and didn't 

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00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,840
have another seat, only 
Harrenhal. 

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00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,920
So this is the one place that 
they've really made their name. 

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00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,640
The sections of this episode, 
we're going to talk about the 

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00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,440
first mention and the earliest 
mention. 

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00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,160
The difference, of course, is 
the first mention is the first 

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00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,760
time we read it in terms of when
it was penned by George. 

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00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,760
The earliest mention means the 
first chronological mention, as 

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00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,480
in the internal timeline. 
Megor's Rewards is the next 

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00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,360
section. 
Then we have a strong revival, 

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00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,920
which, yes, does refer to how 
strong. 

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00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,520
Then the black bat takes flight.
The first Lord Lofton, the Young

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00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,960
Dragon's reign, Baylor's reign, 
Viserys the second in Aegon the 

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00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,080
Unworthy, we're going to cover 
Lost in during those times. 

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00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,560
Then there'll be AII dug up a 
little bit of real life 

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00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,400
information about bats just for 
fun. 

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00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,400
And then we have Harrenhal's 
Century of Blood, the first 

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00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,920
Black Fire Rebellion, Manfred of
the Black Hood, Mad Donnell, who

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00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,240
is probably the character you 
all are most familiar with from 

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00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,960
House Lost in Mad Donnell. 
So she'll be near the end. 

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00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,760
Then the inspiration for Mad 
Donnell is Elizabeth Bathory, 

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00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,760
who was a Hungarian noble. 
Then the Last of Loston and the 

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00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,480
Loston Legacy, followed by our 
standard outro. 

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00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,440
All right, let's get to it. 
With that first mention, the 

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00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,360
first time the name Loston is 
uttered comes in A Clash of 

143
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,360
Kings RE9 in the relevant 
location. 

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00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,280
Why should I wager my feet for 
the chance to sweat in 

145
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,560
Winterfell in place of 
Harrenhal? 

146
00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:01,560
You know, old Ben Blackthum, he 
came here as a boy, smithed for 

147
00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:06,000
Lady Wendt and her father before
her and his father before him, 

148
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,360
and even for Lord Lofston, who 
held Harrenhal before the winds.

149
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,360
Now he Smiths for Lord Tywin, 
and you know what he says? 

150
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,240
A sword's a sword, a helm's a 
helm. 

151
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,720
And if you reach in the fire, 
you get burned, no matter who 

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00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,320
you're serving. 
Lucan's a fair enough master. 

153
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,040
I'll stay here. 
Narrator voice. 

154
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,160
He did not in fact stay there. 
He being Gendry of course Arya 

155
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,840
talks him into leaving. 
She sort of lies to him but also

156
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,360
sort of tells the truth that he 
wasn't willing to face. 

157
00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,520
Anyway, that's not the point 
here, but it is a a fun moment. 

158
00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,640
They are both very aware of the 
reputation of Harrenhal and 

159
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,960
experience horrors while there 
personally and just things they 

160
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,040
see to happen to other people. 
And that reputation that they 

161
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,880
are aware of is mostly from 
house lost in not only is it, as

162
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,120
we said at the beginning, the 
house that held it the longest, 

163
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,920
but they held it the most 
recently after house went and 

164
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,040
house went really didn't have a 
bad reputation. 

165
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,560
They had a tragic reputation, 
kind of like most of the houses 

166
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:12,000
that held the the the castle 
instead of one that, like we 

167
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,080
said, leaned into that evil and 
made it part of who they are. 

168
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:23,280
In Old English, loft means evil 
or loathsome stun STON means 

169
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,360
stone. 
So. 

170
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,640
Well, this actually describes 
Harrenhal better than the house 

171
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,000
lost in. 
Perhaps, but it works for both 

172
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,840
because evil stone. 
Yeah, loathsome stone that yeah,

173
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,480
that works quite well. 
I don't know if George did that 

174
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,720
on purpose. 
It seems maybe too much of A 

175
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,960
coincidence to not be. 
But yeah, we we don't know for 

176
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,520
sure. 
The first chronological mention 

177
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,200
of House lost in comes in Fire 
and Blood quote. 

178
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,080
Megor stood alone. 
The king turned to the crowd. 

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00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,200
Who will come and stand beside 
his king, he called. 

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00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,440
Many turned away in fear, or 
pretended that they did not 

181
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,560
hear, for the prowess of the 
warrior's sons was known to all.

182
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:11,200
But at last one man offered 
himself no knight, but a simple 

183
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,720
man at arms who called himself 
Dick Bean. 

184
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,320
I've been a King's man since I 
was a boy, he said. 

185
00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:23,160
I mean to die a King's man. 
Only then as he slappeth. 

186
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:25,760
I can't get you. 
Sorry. 

187
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,320
OK. 
Only then did the first Knight 

188
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,280
step forward. 
This being shames us all. 

189
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,880
He shouted. 
Are there no true Knights here? 

190
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,200
No leel men. 
The speaker was Bernard Broun, 

191
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,520
the Squire who had slain hair in
the red and been knighted by 

192
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,680
King Amis himself. 
His scorn drove others to offer 

193
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:50,320
their swords. 
The names of the four Magor 

194
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,600
chose are writ large in the 
history of Westeros. 

195
00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:01,760
Sir Bram of Blackhall, a hedge 
knight, Sir Raiford Rosby, Sir 

196
00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,000
Guy Lofston called Guy the 
Glutton, and Sir Lucifer Massey,

197
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,000
Lord of Stone Dance. 
And you know, I could've said 

198
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,440
Gee or Guy, but I like the idea 
of SER Guy. 

199
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,880
Just a guy, dude. 
Yeah, just dude. 

200
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,600
Yeah, I, I assume it's Gee, but 
yeah, guy is funnier. 

201
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,160
There's a lot in that quote. 
It's creepy and it's funny as 

202
00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:25,880
actually I could barely get 
through it because of the 

203
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,480
funniness. 
I could barely get through it 

204
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,880
because you were laughing at me.
I was like I said I'd. 

205
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:31,760
Be I'd be. 
I know it's so funny. 

206
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,520
There's also like all the rhymes
in there. 

207
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,560
It's like he called many turned 
away in fear, pretended that 

208
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,640
they did not hear for the 
prowess of the warrior son was 

209
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,680
known to all. 
Yeah, all these rhymes. 

210
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,360
It's great. 
George is sneaky with his 

211
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,640
alliteration and his rhymes that
you sometimes don't realize are 

212
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,240
even there. 
So. 

213
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,720
And it's it has the phrase 
history of Westeros in there. 

214
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,680
So of course we love that. 
It nods at Duncan Egg, which is 

215
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,760
where a lot of today's story is 
going because again, this is the

216
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,800
era that the Lostons were most 
active in, in the in the same 

217
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,400
era that Duncan Egg were active.
At least the second part, the 

218
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,560
trial by 7, is mentioned here. 
And are there true nights here? 

219
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,440
That's the same line that Duncan
utters in a pretty different 

220
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,560
context, but it's a trial by 7. 
So there's a lot in common here.

221
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,800
Now in the hedge night, Lionel 
Baratheon, the Laughing Storm is

222
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,760
excited for the trial of seven 
because there hadn't been one in

223
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,440
more than a century. 
This one was more than 160 years

224
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,800
before Ashford Meadow. 
So this could be that one. 

225
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,080
It's more than 100 years. 
It's quite a bit more than 100, 

226
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,280
but this is, this definitely 
could be the one he's referring 

227
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:29,480
to. 
We definitely don't have another

228
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,800
candidate, so that's cool and 
it's really on topic for us. 

229
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,960
The tone ear for how the Lostons
are viewed in world and how 

230
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,600
George sets us readers up to 
think about them. 

231
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,760
Guy or guy the Glutton is is 
killed in the melee along with 

232
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,720
everyone else except Magor 
himself. 

233
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:53,120
But the point is, the first 
Loston we ever hear of stands 

234
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,760
for Magor, alongside a guy named
Lucifer at a crucial moment when

235
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,000
his throne is up in the air. 
If Magor had lost, if guys like 

236
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,400
Gee the Glutton hadn't stood for
him, then Magor's reign might 

237
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,600
not have even happened. 
He'd have been dead, or he would

238
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,200
have lost his challenge. 
So. 

239
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,720
And they weren't going to do it.
That bean shamed them all. 

240
00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,440
Dick Bean we all love. 
He's hilarious, but it's kind of

241
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,560
his fault that Magor's king, so 
I don't know. 

242
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,680
Yeah, again, creepy and 
hilarious at the same time. 

243
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,040
Now, this might mean that the 
Lostons were originally from the

244
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,360
Crown Lands. 
And it's a little confusing 

245
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,200
because later we're going to 
hear that the Lostons are hedge 

246
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,960
Knights. 
But here it says the speaker, 

247
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,360
Bernard Brune, is a hedge 
knight, and it doesn't refer to 

248
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,440
the others that way. 
So what our guess is is they 

249
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,080
started off as household Knights
to somebody or had a little bit 

250
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:52,880
of acclaim or notice. 
Then because of this, they got 

251
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,520
rewarded by Magor and rose up a 
little higher. 

252
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,760
But then by the time Magor's 
rain collapsed, Magor's realm 

253
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,320
didn't go rain didn't go very 
well. 

254
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,840
The Lost In's declined again, 
became hedge nights. 

255
00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,280
And then in the future, you 
know, earn Harrenhal. 

256
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:11,040
So this happened in the 40s and 
the Lost In's won't get 

257
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,120
Harrenhal for real until 151. 
So yeah, we're well ahead of 

258
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,560
that and it's because it's a 
little peculiar that just makes 

259
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,400
me lean into even more what 
George is doing here by 

260
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,600
associating the lost insurance 
with Magor and you know, Lucifer

261
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,520
and just a bad 'cause like they 
are very quickly notable as a 

262
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,720
villainous house. 
There's very little about. 

263
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,080
They say, oh, there's some good,
some bad. 

264
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,000
Not really, not with this house.
There's some some houses like 

265
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,240
Peak and to a lesser extent 
House Bracken, the Boltons, 

266
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,280
there's really very few good 
things you can say about them 

267
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,440
and and the Loftons, they belong
in that category. 

268
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,360
It looks like Amanda Molyneaux 
sends a super chat, says happy 

269
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,880
New year, Ashaya and Aziz and 
all the West Orians. 

270
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,000
Happy New Year to you as well. 
Yes, we're looking forward to a 

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00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,040
great 2025. 
We hope it's the same for you 

272
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,760
all out there. 
We hope you are happy and 

273
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,480
healthy and well. 
If you're enjoying a podcast 

274
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,560
then hey, you know you're doing 
better than a lot of people. 

275
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaking of rewards, Magor's 
Rewards is our next section. 

276
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,480
He was, of course, well known 
for brutality. 

277
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,000
I don't need to explain that to 
you all, but he was quite 

278
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,280
generous on the rare occasions 
when he was pleased by something

279
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,960
the Lawstons would, like I said 
later, be gifted Herod Hall. 

280
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,520
Gifted Heron Hall, Obviously not
by Magor, he would be dead for a

281
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,600
long time before that. 
But Magor did hold a contest for

282
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,200
ownership of Herrenhall after he
turned on someone he had been 

283
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,520
quite generous to. 
Let's go through that briefly. 

284
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,120
His second wife was Alice 
Harraway. 

285
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,160
He at first lavished her with 
gifts and elevated her father 

286
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,800
all the way to Hand to the King,
something we'll see happen a lot

287
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,480
in the era where the Lawson's 
are active. 

288
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,720
By that I mean a woman pleases 
the King and gets promoted to 

289
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,760
Hand to the King. 
Yeah, of course we're talking 

290
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,320
about Aegon the Unworthy, but 
here it happened with Magor as 

291
00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,680
well. 
So when she announced she was 

292
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,560
pregnant, Alice Harraway, he was
even more pleased because he was

293
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,119
desperate for an heir. 
Remember that he never did have 

294
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,480
one. 
He never had a child of his own 

295
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,119
body, at least not one that 
survived. 

296
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,520
This one, in fact was born but 
premature and very monstrous, 

297
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,839
right? 
The whole draconic baby syndrome

298
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,839
that only Targaryen seemed to 
have. 

299
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,000
Well, this was a a case of that.
Magor became convinced though 

300
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,640
that it this couldn't be me, 
even though for our perspective 

301
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,920
of of course it's you, of course
it's a Targaryen child that this

302
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,040
happened too. 
Who else would it happen to? 

303
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,960
But Magor became convinced of 
the exact opposite, thanks in 

304
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,200
part to Tiana of the Tower, who 
appears to have come up with a 

305
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,120
whole list of names that Alice 
slept with in order to make sure

306
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,680
she had a child by Magor, she 
went and slept with 20 men, all 

307
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,520
whom had a kid. 20 good men, 
right, who had already had kids 

308
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,920
to make sure she would have a 
kid, that she could have become 

309
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,880
the king or Queen of Westeros, 
the next monarch or whatever. 

310
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,320
So this is all probably made-up,
though Alice was probably 

311
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,280
innocent. 
Doesn't matter to me. 

312
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:07,920
From Megor's perspective though,
he believed it. 

313
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,360
He was convinced he went full. 
Well. 

314
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,160
He went full Megor, right? 
He executed Alice and her father

315
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,640
via gruesome torture. 
Then he marched on Harrenhal, 

316
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,240
killed everyone that had a 
single drop of Harroway blood, 

317
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,720
then marched on Lord Harroway's 
Town and did the same thing. 

318
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,200
Then he held that aforementioned
contest, which was a melee in 

319
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,160
the streets of Lord Harroway's 
Town where the winner gets 

320
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,840
Harrenhal. 23 men fought for it.
So a little more than 20 good 

321
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,520
men, 23 good or 20 bad men. 
I don't, I don't know about 

322
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,560
this. 
These are people that may go or 

323
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,800
liked. 
So you know, it's not a huge 

324
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,480
number of contestants. 
You get a whole town and it's 

325
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,400
like 23 guys are fighting. 
It's like you might, they might 

326
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,160
not see each other for like an 
hour at a time. 

327
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,200
These were all nights of his 
household. 

328
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,160
So again, yeah, guys who were 
like close to Magor, who had won

329
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,440
favor with Magor. 
And how do you win favor with a 

330
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,360
guy like Magor? 
Probably by doing bad things. 

331
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,920
So maybe one of these 23 nights 
of his household was a 

332
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,200
descendant of Guy Lawston. 
Maybe that was the reward for 

333
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,960
the Lawson's at the time that 
since Guy Lawson stood for Magor

334
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,280
and helped him win his crown and
died doing it, well, reward that

335
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:14,840
family. 
Even Magor would do something 

336
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:15,720
like that. 
He wasn't. 

337
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,160
He's not one to overlook that 
even as bad as he was, but maybe

338
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,920
there was no lost and to reward.
Maybe the name just came back up

339
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,880
later. 
Anyway, we don't know, but it's 

340
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,360
a it's a valid theory in my 
mind. 

341
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,680
So this is perhaps the largest 
prize. 

342
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,920
Well, it's certainly the largest
prize in terms of physical size 

343
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,800
ever for a tournament. 
Harrenhal, right? 

344
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,400
Perhaps it's the most valuable 
ever for a tournament, But that 

345
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,440
depends on how you value air and
all air and all has a lot of 

346
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,240
positive value and a lot of 
negative value. 

347
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,360
I don't know how you adjust all 
for all that on the accounting 

348
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:50,640
books, you know, which is the 
how do you value the curse? 

349
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,160
You know, how do you value the 
the chance that your your heirs 

350
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,640
will will die off or go insane 
or whatever. 

351
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,480
I don't know how bad. 
How much do you factor in 

352
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,960
nightmares, you know? 
But again, at this time, 

353
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,840
Harrenhal, it had a bad 
reputation, but it hadn't yet 

354
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,080
had the Lofstons. 
So the fully cursed reputation 

355
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,320
that it has now hadn't been 
developed. 

356
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,240
We have shown in past episodes 
how that reputation did come 

357
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,960
along gradually, which is every 
year Harrenhal looks a little 

358
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,880
bit worse. 
It wasn't just one thing, just a

359
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,600
lot of things that just kept 
happening decade by decade. 

360
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,120
So Magor helped, of course, what
he did to the Harrow waves. 

361
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,120
Really. 
Kicked up the talk of curses 

362
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,880
related to Harrenhal, but that's
going to carry forward. 

363
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,040
And the Lostons will be a big 
part of that, of course, perhaps

364
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,000
earning the most credit for how 
it's viewed now. 

365
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,200
At the time, House Towers won 
the castle, they won the melee, 

366
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,040
but they didn't win all the 
lands. 

367
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,640
That's a big factor whenever 
you're talking about Harrenhal 

368
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,360
and who thrives there and who 
doesn't. 

369
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,440
It has a good bit to do with how
much of the surrounding 

370
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,080
countryside are they allowed to 
own. 

371
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,040
When they own a lot of the 
surrounding countryside, they 

372
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,160
can actually afford it. 
They can pay for it, they can 

373
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,880
make repairs, they can have 
soldiers, and even though it's 

374
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,240
still very expensive to upkeep, 
it doesn't swallow them up with 

375
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,360
expenses. 
It's not like a white elephant 

376
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,120
situation where the upkeep of 
the place is more than they can 

377
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,880
afford, and so they just kind of
sync with it. 

378
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,400
That's what happens to a lot of 
the houses that hold it, 

379
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,160
including this Magor Tower or 
this House Towers even though 

380
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,600
they named their Air Magor 
towers. 

381
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,040
He died impoverished with no 
children in 61 AC. 

382
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:32,120
Now what a common thing to 
happen to a house that has 

383
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:34,640
Harrenhal dying without 
children. 

384
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,960
It isn't even necessarily awful 
things happen to them, they just

385
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,560
didn't have children. 
That's what happened to the 

386
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:39,880
towers. 
They didn't get there. 

387
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,960
Wasn't plague or anything like 
that, but there was Magor Magor.

388
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,640
Most of the members of House 
Towers were killed fighting in 

389
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,840
his wars. 
But still, that doesn't mean 

390
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,320
there couldn't be children, 
right? 

391
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,720
So a long time theory we've had 
that will pop up again in this 

392
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,000
one off and on is the idea that 
something is wrong with 

393
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,040
Harrenhal from a fertility 
perspective. 

394
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Something in the water or the 
air, and it could be 

395
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,120
supernatural. 
It could be both, could be the 

396
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:08,320
humidity, could be just 
bacteria. 

397
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,760
Oh, no mold. 
I mean, there's a lot of regular

398
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,120
explanations that would probably
cover a lot of the bases here 

399
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:19,040
for why so many families seem to
have trouble procreating at 

400
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,720
Harrenhal. 
There could be a mundane 

401
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,920
explanation, but yeah, it could 
be supernatural, could be little

402
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,280
both. 
Now the Magor himself, Magor 

403
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,400
Towers was sickly and didn't 
last very long. 

404
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,000
This house only had Harrenhal 
for like like a decade or more 

405
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,240
and Queen Reyna then kind of had
it next. 

406
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,920
Queen Reyna is in the older 
brother of Jairus and Alison and

407
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,360
all them the one who Magor 
overthrew or usurped. 

408
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:48,600
So she lived there about 12 
years and etcetera and then we 

409
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,000
move on to how strong before 
that super chat from Tommy Joe 

410
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,720
Wagner and thanks Tommy 
appreciate that say hey to to 

411
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,520
everyone in New York up there 
and from books immersed from 

412
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,240
Canada. 
I almost said Canadia. 

413
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,520
Canadia sounds kind of cooler 
actually. 

414
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,640
Canada sounds cool too. 
I like that. 

415
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,120
I like that name. 
Anyway, happy books of mercies. 

416
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,000
Happy new Year. 
Happy, happy new year to you 

417
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,320
both. 
Thank you all for your hard 

418
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,920
work. 
Looking forward to an amazing 

419
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,920
year of West W content. 
We appreciate that. 

420
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,040
It's very motivating to hear 
from you all and to feel the 

421
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,800
support. 
We're going to keep them coming 

422
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,440
no matter what. 
But you know, it's it, it means 

423
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,200
a lot to feel validated from you
guys. 

424
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,840
It really does. 
The next section is called a 

425
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,960
Strong revival. 
So when Reyna passed in 73 AC, 

426
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,320
the Strongs got it right. 
The house, How strong? 

427
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,120
They were a real mixed bag 
during the Harrenhal era. 

428
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,840
Obviously Laris burned his own 
family and never had any kids of

429
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,480
his own. 
Under the Strongs, however, the 

430
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,960
house did gain a lot of wealth 
and prominence and suffered none

431
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,200
of the pennilessness of house 
towers. 

432
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,480
This implies that they were 
given more of the land around 

433
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,760
Harrenhal right? 
And they didn't want it to be 

434
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,520
poor in this area. 
How strong was prominent? 

435
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,160
They had a hand to the king. 
Multiple hands and they had or 

436
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,320
multiple small council members 
anyway yeah no multiple hands 

437
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,400
yeah and the great council of 
one O 1 was held there the place

438
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,640
where they name a new king or 
the the future king anyway, and 

439
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,360
almost everyone who's anyone 
comes there. 

440
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,560
This place isn't going to be 
left shabby for such an event 

441
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,880
No, they had to fix it up, but 
it definitely had to spend some 

442
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
money on this place to hold the 
great council there. 

443
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,600
You know even if it wasn't the 
fanciest as it could been 

444
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,960
definitely required some 
upgrades. 

445
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,600
You know, this is again, so we 
have to keep track of the, the 

446
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,080
insurance and outs and ups and 
downs of herrenhall and make 

447
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,640
sure we're aligning these 
things, these factors correctly 

448
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,880
after the Dance of the Dragons. 
Skipping ahead, Herrenhall was 

449
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,600
ruled for an uncertain length of
time by Alice Rivers, right? 

450
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,840
Who was probably a descendant of
how strong and who definitely 

451
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,040
claimed to be the mother of 
Prince Eamon's child. 

452
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,440
As of now, we don't know 
whatever happened to her or that

453
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,800
kid or her dragony illusions, 
assuming they were illusions, 

454
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,960
but either way, we don't know 
what happened to her. 

455
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,880
It seems she was probably killed
or driven off at some point. 

456
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:02,560
That's the best we can do for 
now. 

457
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,880
We do know that Herrenhall was 
empty and completely unowned 

458
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,920
after that. 
Something like maybe 10-15 years

459
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,120
of this, of being completely 
abandoned, during which time, 

460
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,360
well, the problems of upkeep 
would have gotten much worse. 

461
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,200
Without regular upkeep, you're 
going to see some significant 

462
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,920
damage. 
Maybe a maybe a thing collapses 

463
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,680
here or there, something else 
rots away. 

464
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,520
You got 10 to 15 years of 
knowing upkeeping this place. 

465
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,320
I'm not so sure it was well 
taken care of by Alice Rivers 

466
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,600
either, or Larry Strong. 
Because Larry Strong, as much as

467
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,240
he kind of fits the vibe of 
Harrenhal as a as a villainous 

468
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,760
guy, he barely lived there. 
I mean, he did when he was 

469
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,600
younger, but like all his 
villainy comes at court from 

470
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,320
King's Landing. 
Like he didn't, he didn't even 

471
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,120
go back there before his death 
as far as we know. 

472
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,360
It's like he came to court and 
then never went back to 

473
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,040
Harrenhal as far as we know. 
Or maybe August a couple of 

474
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,080
times. 
None that were important enough 

475
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,480
to mention. 
And not to mention how Strong's 

476
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,400
wealth was taken by Prince Damon
at the start of the war and the 

477
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,440
castle was devastated during it 
by Prince Amon Don Vegar. 

478
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,720
He got a thorough burning, not 
as thorough with Valerians, but 

479
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,880
the castle probably lost to this
splendor and prestige that it 

480
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,800
had gained under the strongs or 
regained under the strongs, 

481
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,040
whatever work had been done to 
make it nicer for the Great 

482
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,080
Council, and that was probably 
lost. 

483
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,880
So we have something like 90 
years between Gee Guy, let's 

484
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,880
call him Gee Guy Lost, and he's 
both. 

485
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,240
He's Guy Gee, Gee, Guy lost in 
and the next name lost in. 

486
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,880
And this is part of why we 
assume there was a reward from 

487
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,080
Magor, because if you're a hedge
knight or a hedge knight family,

488
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,200
like what are the odds that 
you're still around 90 years 

489
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,320
later? 
Like it's really hard to keep a 

490
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,120
landless family going, you know,
like where do you raise your 

491
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,800
children? 
You know, where do you how do 

492
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,120
you have your stable income to 
support a family? 

493
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,240
It's difficult. 
It's not impossible that the 

494
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,160
Lostons had some lesser holdings
that we've never heard about it 

495
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,160
because it is a little strange 
that they go from basically 

496
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,160
nothing to Harrenhal, but less 
strange when you here who was 

497
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,920
involved in that decision and 
why? 

498
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,200
So it's a little tricky for us 
to guess at, but there's a lot 

499
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,160
of possibilities here. 
Let's talk about the Black Bat 

500
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,320
takes flight here. 
This is when House Loston gets 

501
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,440
going. 
So like I said, many houses were

502
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,960
destroyed by Harrenhal and 
Lostons seem to be the first to 

503
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,280
embrace the place, like use the 
evil reputation as a form of 

504
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,720
power in and of itself. 
Say, hey, I'm the Lord of 

505
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,120
Harrenhal, that's the castle 
with all that cursed rough 

506
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,640
reputation. 
That's the power I'm bringing to

507
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,840
the table rather than. 
They don't present it to 

508
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,280
something they have to deal 
with, they present it to 

509
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,280
something they can like, use 
against you. 

510
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,160
That sounds like the pitch for 
your like home renovation show. 

511
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,960
Embrace the place. 
That's the name of it, right? 

512
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,520
Embrace the place. 
Yes, that is what I'm going to 

513
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,200
call. 
Yes, that'll be how my that'll 

514
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,080
be my claim to fame. 
If like, if I can turn a place 

515
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,000
like Harrenhal into a beautiful 
living space, then what can't I 

516
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,880
Do You know it? 
Almost had it completely wrong. 

517
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,480
A A a beautiful living space 
place embrace. 

518
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,760
Got a workshop on this a little 
more it's almost there. 

519
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,400
So at at first maybe it didn't 
start as evil or cursed for them

520
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,840
that it did happen. 
Certainly it did come later. 

521
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,000
At first it was just more 
scandalous incestuous maybe and 

522
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,040
some other things of that 
nature. 

523
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,600
Let's let's go through that and 
then work our way up to the 

524
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,720
gradually increasing 
supernatural elements, 

525
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,040
potentially the first Lord 
Lawston. 

526
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,920
OK, five years after the Dance 
of the Dragons, roughly the year

527
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,320
136, we'll say there was a man 
named Sir Lucas Lawston. 

528
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,320
He was named to replace Sir 
Gareth Long as Red Keep master 

529
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,720
at arms. 
Remember, Gareth Long was sent 

530
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,880
to the wall after that whole 
secret siege business and Sir 

531
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,360
Lucas replaced him. 
He was, quote, a fine young 

532
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,040
swordsman to have made the role 
of master at arms to have 

533
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,360
achieved that implies, well, 
skill. 

534
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,360
Obviously fine young swordsman. 
It's it's pretty clear there, 

535
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,640
but he had to have been known 
already. 

536
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,400
I mean, you don't just kind of 
randomly appear as master at 

537
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,680
arms. 
You probably they picked from a 

538
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,720
pool of available candidates 
people who were kind of Next up,

539
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,640
like guys who had been around 
for a while. 

540
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,040
Again, this is the whole idea of
them maybe being household 

541
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,040
nights or living in the crown 
land, something relevant, 

542
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,280
something to put them on the 
map. 

543
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,280
I doubt anyone remembered Guy 
lost in at this point, Guy at 

544
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,160
this time because it had been, 
you know, 90 years or so. 

545
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,080
Maybe Lucas Lost In fought well 
in the Dance of the Dragons. 

546
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,880
That's a very straightforward 
way to get noticed, right? 

547
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,320
He got this appointment five 
years after the war. 

548
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,120
It fits. 
Maybe Lost In was a neutral 

549
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,880
party. 
Maybe his house being so small 

550
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,400
didn't really take a side, 
didn't have a lot of connections

551
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,960
to the existing players like 
Unwin Peak or the other 

552
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,960
factions, so someone they could 
both parties could agree on. 

553
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,040
Like, hey, this guy doesn't come
in and tip the scales one way or

554
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,000
the other. 
You know, he's a candidate 

555
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,680
that's kind of an unknown. 
He's the grandson of a hedge 

556
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,920
knight, so something that both 
blacks and Greens could maybe 

557
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,840
agree on, I don't know. 
Anyway, compare him to 

558
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,160
Littlefinger and these 
comparisons will continue. 

559
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,920
Lucas has a lot of Littlefinger 
in him. 

560
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,440
Littlefinger obviously not 
nearly as good as Swordsman, but

561
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800
that's not of course the be all 
end all here. 

562
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,400
Now a lot of people thought 
Littlefinger wasn't ambitious 

563
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,280
either, So maybe they thought 
that about this guy just a up 

564
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,240
jumped hedge knight, the son of 
a grandson of a hedge knight 

565
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,800
swordsman. 
You know, what possible 

566
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,200
political power can this guy 
wield? 

567
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,600
He doesn't seem threatening. 
Maybe he's not very ambitious. 

568
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,840
A Littlefinger again, didn't 
seem very ambitious either, and 

569
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,760
that was a huge mistake. 
And this guy also is going to 

570
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,760
rise a lot higher than you would
expect for the grandson of a 

571
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,680
hedge knight, which Littlefinger
was too, let's not forget. 

572
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,080
Grandson of the hedge knight 
Littlefinger was. 

573
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,240
Yeah. 
So it's easy to imagine that 

574
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,360
whatever status this family got 
under Magor, they lost it 

575
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,440
because, you know, Magor lost 
the throne. 

576
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,520
So that's not good. 
And if Magor, if they were in 

577
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,760
one of the houses that stood by 
Magor and then abandoned him, 

578
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,120
well, that's not good either 
because Jaharis was wary waries.

579
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,520
Jaharis was wearies of those who
fought for Magor, and he didn't 

580
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,480
really appreciate those who 
switched sides as, oh, now 

581
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,640
they're on my side. 
No, they're just changing sides 

582
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,840
because they're losing and they 
still fought for Magor in the 

583
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,520
1st place, right? 
Which is this just he wasn't 

584
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,120
really big on working with 
people that had worked for 

585
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,320
Magor. 
A lot of them got sent to the 

586
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,400
wall or just weren't given court
positions. 

587
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,200
So that that makes sense. 
But there's a lot of reasons why

588
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:28,440
you can just fall from grace. 
You can 1 Lord who manages the 

589
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,360
family badly can destroy the 
whole thing. 

590
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,080
So there's a lot of 
possibilities here. 

591
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,720
But if it was something about 
shutting them out because of who

592
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,800
their allies were, well, Jaharis
was king for a really long time,

593
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,880
so the Lostons would remain shut
out for a really long time. 

594
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,320
But by the time Lucas was named 
Master at Arms, Magor had been 

595
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760
dead for over 80 years, Jaharis 
for almost 30. 

596
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,120
So the obscurity of the Lostons 
might have actually worked in 

597
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,680
their favor a bit here. 
People might have forgotten who 

598
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,000
that that history, you know, 
Lucas. 

599
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,320
Lucas might not have even known 
his ancestor fought for Magor, 

600
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,400
you know. 
Probably did, but it wouldn't be

601
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160
common knowledge. 
I don't think the disappointment

602
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,560
actually came from Hand of the 
King, Lord Turin Manderly, a 

603
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,440
Northerner who may had never 
have heard of the Lost Ones at 

604
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,440
all. 
That wouldn't be surprising in 

605
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,320
the slightest. 
And by account, Sir Lucas, 

606
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,480
though he's going to turn into 
quite the scumbag. 

607
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,320
He was a good teacher in terms 
of swordsmanship, as as far as 

608
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:26,440
we hear. 
He was patient, he was 

609
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,280
effective. 
Young Prince Viserys, who 

610
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,080
eventually will be Viserys the 
Second, saw Lucas as his 

611
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:38,800
favorite teacher and even his 
solemn, rarely happy elder 

612
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,760
brother. 
The King Egg on the Third 

613
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,960
actually also came to respect 
Sir Lucas, apparently 

614
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,680
grudgingly. 
But it was real hard to get 

615
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,440
respect out of King Egg on the 
3rd. 

616
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,520
That boy just was very sad. 
You know, he was traumatized and

617
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,600
well, you know, it was hard for 
him to see the good in anything.

618
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,440
13 years later, in the year 149,
Sir Lucas was still the master 

619
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,680
at arms and was thus well 
established. 

620
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,320
So he had been at court for more
than a decade. 

621
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,280
His status had risen. 
His family status had risen, 

622
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,320
though he wasn't married and I 
don't know if any of his family 

623
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,560
was actually around. 
Certainly the name lost and was 

624
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,560
on the rise. 
King Agon the Third was still on

625
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,600
the throne in 149, but by then 
Prince Viserys was handed the 

626
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,240
king and both of them had 
children of their own, meaning 

627
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,920
Viserys and Agon. 
Sir Lucas would have been in 

628
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,160
turn teaching those children, 
right? 

629
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,160
So he's still teaching 
Targaryens how to sword fight. 

630
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,840
Now at this era since Prince 
Viserys and Aegon were older, 

631
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,680
they're probably not getting 
those lessons anymore. 

632
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,960
So now we have. 
It's a little confusing because 

633
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,320
Viserys is the younger one, but 
he had kids before his older 

634
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,200
brother, the King. 
Aegon the Third and the children

635
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,120
in question here. 
The eldest were Aegon, the one 

636
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,480
that's going to be Egon the 
Unworthy, and Amon, the one 

637
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,880
that's going to be Amon the 
Dragon Knight. 

638
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,920
Those two are of course brothers
and they were only born about a 

639
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,400
year apart. 
They would have been 13 and 14 

640
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,840
in the year 149. 
So that's the most likely the 

641
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,840
two that he spent the most time 
with in this era, Lucas Loston, 

642
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,000
Amon and Egon the Unworthy. 
The connection to Amon the 

643
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,679
Dragon Knight's not going to 
amount to much. 

644
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,000
Well, Amon was a good person and
wouldn't have much in common 

645
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,760
with Lucas outside of swordplay.
Egon the Unworthy and Lucas 

646
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,920
Loston would develop quite a 
relationship that would carry on

647
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,239
for decades. 
Aegon the Unworthy, of course, 

648
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,520
had a huge uncountable number of
mistresses. 

649
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,760
But there's nine famous ones, 
right? 

650
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,120
Nine particularly noble, notable
ones who get who had a lot of 

651
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,480
attention that they were the 
closest to him. 

652
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,719
The first one was Felina 
Stokeworth. 

653
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,840
Felina was born in the year 125 
and came to court as a young 

654
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,120
girl early in egg on the thirds 
reign and one of she was one of 

655
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,880
the unfortunate ones injured by 
Unwin Peak when Unwin was trying

656
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,280
to like hurt all the little 
girls that he thought was a that

657
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,880
he thought were a threat to his 
daughter marrying the king. 

658
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,320
Of course none of that worked 
out for him and he just like 

659
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,120
hurt a bunch of girls for no 
reason. 

660
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,480
As it turned out some of those 
injuries were really severe. 

661
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,000
Thankfully for Feline it was 
only a broken leg. 

662
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,960
She got pushed down some stairs 
that could have been a lot 

663
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,760
worse, but maybe no lasting 
harm, even though maybe she had 

664
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,800
a limp or something, I don't 
know. 

665
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,440
But because she was one of the 
ones he targeted, it makes it 

666
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,520
seem like she was particularly 
good looking. 

667
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,040
I don't know, but that's a that 
would be a factor in, of course,

668
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:37,200
in becoming Aegon's mistress. 
Now, Aegon and Felina had a 

669
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,520
relationship for about two years
now. 

670
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,360
It's relevant here that Felina 
was a lot older than him. 

671
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,560
She wasn't old. 
She was 24, but he was 14. 

672
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,200
So the, the, what we're told is 
that she made a man of him. 

673
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:54,480
So what that sort of tells us is
that she may be ambitious as 

674
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,080
well. 
And she was trying to, you know,

675
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,520
get this Prince in her under her
sway a bit. 

676
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,400
She might be one of the few 
mistresses that was more than 

677
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,080
willing rather than some of the 
ones who were like, I don't know

678
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,480
about this guy. 
He's creepy and gross and. 

679
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,080
Yeah, anyway, maybe Prince 
Viserys didn't realize what he 

680
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,720
was dealing with in terms of his
son Aegon the Unworthy, and 

681
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:24,120
didn't necessarily know how much
Lucas, who he respected as a 

682
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,880
swords teacher, was of that ilk,
or how much he was willing to do

683
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,400
to advance his ambitions. 
So what happened when they got 

684
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,400
caught by the Kingsguard was 
Viserys said OK, let's remove 

685
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,200
her from the picture. 
I'm not going to send my son 

686
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,200
away. 
Although he did do that later. 

687
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,040
But this was after becoming 
exasperated with scenarios like 

688
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,600
this where sending the girl away
didn't do any good because he 

689
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,720
just found another one. 
Yeah, it did not work. 

690
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,280
Just like Gendry not staying at 
Harrenhal, sending away Felina 

691
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,520
didn't do didn't even keep 
Felina away from him. 

692
00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:01,680
It didn't work in any way. 
So what they did here was 

693
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,320
Viserys arranged for Felina to 
marry Lucas Lawston. 

694
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,880
So perhaps is a reward for him 
because he had been such a good 

695
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,520
teacher for so long. 
And a Stokeworth, that's a very 

696
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,400
big marriage for a hedge knight 
family, a guy who's just a 

697
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,360
master at arms and his family is
is not particularly 

698
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,480
distinguished. 
But she was, of course, 

699
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,960
considered dishonored by 
Westerosi society by sleeping 

700
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,240
with the Prince. 
And you know, she's not a virgin

701
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,600
anymore. 
Oh no. 

702
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,920
But of course Westerosi care 
about that now. 

703
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,480
So the idea was give her, give 
him Harrenhal and marry her to 

704
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,760
him. 
So he went from Sir to Lord of 

705
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,480
Harrenhal. 
And we're told that Prince 

706
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,000
Viserys persuaded King Aegon to 
do this. 

707
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,800
And because apparently because 
they both had respect for Sir 

708
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,360
Lucas, that this was easier to 
get through. 

709
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,400
And Aegon was relatively willing
because he already had respect 

710
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,880
for Sir Lucas mistake. 
But you can see why they did it 

711
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,680
perhaps at the time. 
And for Felina, like, this is 

712
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,160
your punishment. 
You, you get married to the 

713
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640
largest castle and will you, 
you're becoming the head of a 

714
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,000
new family that's owns the 
largest castle in Westeros. 

715
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,880
That's your punishment. 
Well, it is Harrenhal. 

716
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,840
So yeah, maybe it is that bad. 
We'll see what happens next. 

717
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,240
Let's go through it. 
And Nina argues that maybe lost 

718
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,520
in status was so on the rise at 
this point that it wasn't such a

719
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,000
big gap as I'm making it out to 
be. 

720
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,880
Either way, it was a scandal. 
So one way or another there was 

721
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,400
some some embarrassment and some
sweeping things under the rug 

722
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,440
and and getting it out of court.
So almost exactly 20 years after

723
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,040
the Dance, Herren Hall was 
finally given to someone again, 

724
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,640
House lost and became the 6th 
noble house to rule Herrenhall. 

725
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,920
And it looks like they received 
the rich version rather than the

726
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,120
poor. 
We've been through that a few 

727
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,760
times, right? 
It depends on how many, how much

728
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,440
of the surrounding land, 
countryside they got. 

729
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,360
I guess because of Lucas's 
popularity, his regard by the 

730
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,440
Prince and the king and all 
these some of these other people

731
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,640
at court perhaps also liked him.
He was given a pretty generous 

732
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,840
gift here. 
Of course he's not the one who 

733
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,360
did something wrong here. 
Not yet. 

734
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,120
It was Felina cheating with 
Aegon or whatever at cheating. 

735
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,400
Not cheating. 
Either of them were married at 

736
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,400
the time, but you know what I 
mean them that it's they're the 

737
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,040
ones who got the punishment. 
But let's remember Harrenhal not

738
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,440
that far from King's Landing. 
Two weeks ride, we're told 

739
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,240
roughly. 
And Aegon just kept going there.

740
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,320
He would just show up. 
He would travel to Harrenhal, 

741
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,760
sleep with Felina. 
It just maybe Viscera should 

742
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,240
have sent Felina somewhere 
farther away. 

743
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,160
In a way, this might have made 
things worse because Aegon could

744
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,960
continue to sleep with Felina 
but get away with it because it 

745
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,160
would be out of sight. 
So maybe keeping things out of 

746
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,640
sight was all they cared about. 
But clearly it was still known. 

747
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,640
It's here in the history books. 
We know about it, right? 

748
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,840
So yeah, as we said earlier, the
castle was probably in really 

749
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,000
bad shape given the war and it 
being left unattended for as 

750
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,200
long as 15, maybe even 20 years.
Well, probably not 20, but maybe

751
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,040
15 years. 
So even though we suspect the 

752
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,120
Lostons had a large income, they
would have had to spend a lot of

753
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,400
it on repairs and there would be
a lot of bats. 

754
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,080
While the humans didn't live 
there. 

755
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,520
The bats would be moving in. 
Of course, the bats were living 

756
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,560
there and still do even while 
the humans live there. 

757
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,040
But the bats would be completely
unfettered in their home space 

758
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,600
there. 
And this is probably when the 

759
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,320
bat sigil was taken by house 
lost in because I mean, 

760
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,840
otherwise that's a pretty big 
coincidence, right? 

761
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,240
If they just already had a bat 
sigil, they're like hey. 

762
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:45,160
It you know. 
Yeah, or if we go to his son, 

763
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,720
they're Manfred festing it. 
So that would be a huge 

764
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,400
coincidence if they are, unless 
they manifested it. 

765
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,400
Yeah, like that Nina reminds us 
there's lots of times where 

766
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,960
someone changed their sigil 
because of a a big change in 

767
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,400
fortune. 
The Tollens changed their sigil 

768
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,560
during the conquest from a ghost
to a dragon. 

769
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,560
The Haraways, Coharises and 
Towers all made sigils inspired 

770
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,800
by Harrenhal specifically. 
Right. 

771
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,240
So yeah, it's not only common 
ish, but it's happened several 

772
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:15,520
times at Harrenhal specifically.
So that was probably keeping 

773
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,480
them occupied for a little 
while, repairing their New 

774
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,320
Castle, establishing themselves,
trying to perhaps not be looked 

775
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,240
down on as an up jump Lord. 
You know, that happens a lot in 

776
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:27,280
Westerosi society. 
And he makes them, it becomes a 

777
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,560
Lord and they get this big 
castle and it's bigger than the 

778
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,480
castles of people who have been 
in noble families for thousands 

779
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:34,640
of years. 
And they're like, well, what do 

780
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,120
they deserve that bigger castle 
than us? 

781
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,320
Well, hopefully that that castle
just swallows them whole. 

782
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,040
You know, the, the pettiness and
jealousy of noble houses is was 

783
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,000
probably a part of this. 
And anyway, six years into the 

784
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,680
their lordship of Harrenhal, 
King Egon the third died and the

785
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,320
young dragon, his eldest son, 
ascended to the throne. 

786
00:41:54,080 --> 00:42:00,040
Now I'm guessing Lucas sent men 
to the campaign even though he 

787
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,440
only had hair and all for a 
little while. 

788
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,000
He would be expected to 
contribute. 

789
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,800
And since he probably didn't 
have his own heir yet, or if he 

790
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,880
did he didn't, he definitely 
didn't have an adult heir. 

791
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,640
I don't think at this point it 
seems very unlikely given the 

792
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:13,880
timeline. 
Unless he had a son with 

793
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,840
somebody before Felina, which 
that kid probably would be a 

794
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,120
bastard, I don't know. 
So it's very unlikely that he 

795
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,520
had an adult heir. 
Probably didn't have an heir at 

796
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:28,400
all at this point, but 
regardless that would explain 

797
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,600
why Lucas probably didn't go on 
campaign himself. 

798
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,920
As somebody with skilled with 
the sword you might think well 

799
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,800
this is a candidate to go fight 
in the the wars in Dorn but 

800
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,840
usually noble houses with one 
member don't risk themselves 

801
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,760
like that. 
So I'm guessing he didn't go but

802
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,040
contributed with funds and 
soldiers perhaps. 

803
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,120
Not much to say there. 
Baylor's reign. 

804
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,720
This was a longer term reign. 
It was 10 years instead of 

805
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,240
4:00-ish. 
And of course this happened 

806
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,280
right after his brother Darren, 
the young dragon, was killed in 

807
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,600
Dorn. 
Now we know the kind of man 

808
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:03,840
Baylor was. 
Basically. 

809
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,120
I don't suppose he would have 
been pleased with Herrenhall in 

810
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,400
general. 
Just the dark reputation of the 

811
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,560
place, the Old Gods Association,
Heron, just everything. 

812
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,800
Talk of curses like this is just
not Baylor's bag, obviously. 

813
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,160
Nor is the any sort of sex 
scandal. 

814
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,200
He's down on any of that stuff 
too. 

815
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,320
So the Aegon Felina stuff, he 
wouldn't have been happy with 

816
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,320
that either. 
He might have thought, you know,

817
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,840
this castle needs a lot more 
prayer, but I don't know that he

818
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,400
had a lot to say about it, 
though he, they're certainly 

819
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,440
Baylor had bigger things to be 
distracted by. 

820
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,520
We don't hear about him dealing 
with Harrenhal or have any 

821
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,240
comments about it. 
It's just kind of one of those 

822
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,240
things where you can make some 
assumptions based on what kind 

823
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,120
of man he was and what kind of 
castle that was. 

824
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,440
He might have thought it a good 
thing that Felina was going to 

825
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,040
marry Lucas. 
And maybe the, the this this 

826
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,880
marriage would redeem them a 
bit. 

827
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,360
It's an honorable marriage done 
under the sight of gods and men 

828
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,280
and, you know, under the 
auspices of the faith. 

829
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,480
So Baylor might look kindly on 
that. 

830
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,120
And well, in 164, Felina gave 
birth to a daughter whom they 

831
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,120
called Jane. 
And you know, Baylor would look 

832
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,360
kindly on that. 
They actually had a kid. 

833
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,160
This is rare to have what we've 
talked about. 

834
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,360
It's hard to have kids and hair 
and all, but it's not like it 

835
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,240
never happens. 
The problem is, though, we just 

836
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,400
said a minute ago, who kept 
visiting Harrenhal all this 

837
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,720
time? 
King Agon. 

838
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,240
Well, he's not King Agon yet, 
but Prince Agon, who will later 

839
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,760
be Agon the Unworthy. 
He continues to visit there all 

840
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,440
this time. 
There's no evidence that he 

841
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,840
stopped those visits and there's
no evidence that he was 

842
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,640
prevented from doing that until 
he was sent to Bravos, which 

843
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,440
wasn't in 164. 
The point is that Jane Lawston 

844
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,800
might have been fathered by 
Prince Aegon the Unworthy. 

845
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,440
Still again, not called the 
unworthy yet, but you get it. 

846
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,120
And because of that, we have 
almost the same level of 

847
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,840
suspicion for all their 
descendants. 

848
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:06,320
If Jane was Aegon's was fathered
by Aegon or any of the other 

849
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,400
children that Felina had, then 
those might have been fathered 

850
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,120
actually by Aegon. 
Except any that came after Aegon

851
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,800
the Fourth Death, of course. 
But we don't even know when 

852
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,280
those children were born. 
So right now it's a big question

853
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,800
mark that points very heavily 
towards this possibility. 

854
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,360
Lots of Gray area. 
Jane's the only one for sure we 

855
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,880
knew the suspicion fell on, but 
it seems likely to have fallen 

856
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,840
on any other kids of her that 
were born around this time. 

857
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,120
Now, I've always speculated that
Baylor wasn't a big fan of 

858
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,800
tournaments, but I'm not so sure
I'd go so far as to say he shut 

859
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,480
them down altogether. 
It's possible but maybe I'm 

860
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:48,960
guessing Morel he just frowned 
on them. 

861
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,480
This is a a good excuse for 
someone like Lord Lucas to say 

862
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,880
hey I organize a tournament and 
that's a good reason for Aegon 

863
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,680
to come to Harrenhal and sleep 
with Felina again. 

864
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:04,400
Just kind of like how much later
the Wentz had a attorney at 

865
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,120
Harrenhalt as an excuse to 
gather some Lords together to 

866
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,760
maybe talk about what to do 
about Aries. 

867
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,520
A much bigger scale ambition 
there at at at the tournament at

868
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,400
Harrenhal vis a vis Aries and 
Rhaegar, but still a similar 

869
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,720
sort of thing where you you hold
a tournament and that's an 

870
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,800
excuse to bring a lot of 
powerful people together and do 

871
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,120
stuff under under that umbrella,
under that disguise. 

872
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,920
At some point, Lucas became 
known as Lucas the Pander. 

873
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,320
If you don't know what pander 
means, it's basically pimp. 

874
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,760
A man who offers his wife to a 
Prince for favor. 

875
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:43,960
Yeah, fair game. 
Calling him the pander. 

876
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,560
Even if she was willing, which 
it appears she was then still, 

877
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,360
that doesn't change it. 
You're still the pander. 

878
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,040
He still he still call him that.
So now, late in Baylor's reign 

879
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,920
or not long after, we don't. 
Another kind of uncertainty on 

880
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,640
the the dates here, But Lord 
Lucas seems to have had a 

881
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,760
bastard son. 
We don't know his name, we just 

882
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,160
know there was a guy called the 
Bastard of Harrenhal and he was 

883
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,520
mentioned around the time 193 as
being beaten in a tournament by 

884
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,480
Sir Arlen. 
A penny. 3A penny tree. 

885
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,000
I said penny 3. 
There's a lot more than 3 

886
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,760
pennies on penny tree. 
Anyways, yet again we see the 

887
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:26,080
Lofton sort of wrapped into the 
Dunkin Egg story or era or 

888
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:27,240
whatever. 
Just Sir. 

889
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:28,760
Even Sir Arlen has a connection 
here. 

890
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,040
Now, technically, this bastard 
of Fahrenhal could have been 

891
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:36,000
born as far back as the one 50s,
but since he's a bastard, 

892
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,080
Lucas's bastard, he's not Egon 
the 4th's son. 

893
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:41,520
That's the one thing we can say 
for sure. 

894
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,640
He's not a Targaryen bastard. 
But we don't. 

895
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,160
Of course, we don't know who the
mother is, which I guess there's

896
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,360
a tiny chance that's a 
Targaryen, but really, not, not 

897
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,360
not a chance. 
Not a chance that we need to 

898
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,480
really consider much. 
Next up is the reins of Viserys 

899
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,720
the Second and Aegon the 
Unworthy of Viserys the Second 

900
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,600
reign for just over a year. 
So there's no specific things we

901
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,960
need to talk about that might 
have happened during for the 

902
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,280
Lostons during that area. 
We'll just consider it all 

903
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,200
wrapped up into this Aegon the 
Unworthy reign. 

904
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,400
Now, Felina again, probably 
still seeing Aegon all this 

905
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,280
time, maybe off and on, maybe 
less frequently. 

906
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,400
You know, she was getting older 
and he had a lot of other 

907
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,080
mistresses, etcetera. 
Who knows, but I'm guessing she 

908
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,960
was no longer called Felina 
Stokeworth by this point. 

909
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,720
She's probably called Felina 
Loston by this time. 

910
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,520
Small point anyway. 
And given this relationship, 

911
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,560
what was it? 
What was Lucas getting out of 

912
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,400
this? 
He keeps having his wife sleep 

913
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,760
with the Prince. 
Is he getting a return on this? 

914
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,360
I mean, we called him a pimp. 
Pimps get paid for for these 

915
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,360
arrangements, right? 
We guessed that he got some of 

916
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,160
these favors that we discussed 
earlier. 

917
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,960
Maybe he didn't have those 
expanded lands. 

918
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,160
Maybe Harrenhal didn't have all 
that surrounding territory, 

919
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:56,960
feeding it income to help pay 
for its ruinous upkeep. 

920
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,240
If that hadn't been arranged 
yet, this would be a a good 

921
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:07,200
candidate for the type of return
favor Lucas would get or even 

922
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,600
greater expansion of their land.
Just whatever favors you can 

923
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,440
imagine, little titles, new 
grants of land, they're the most

924
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,920
likely thing. 
And of course, this is egg on 

925
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,120
the force we're talking about. 
This is even though he's not 

926
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,560
king yet, this is exactly his 
modus operandi. 

927
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,720
He would give lands, gifts, 
dragon eggs, Hand of the King 

928
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:28,120
titles to people who brought him
women. 

929
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,800
And well, this was the first guy
to bring him a woman that we 

930
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,360
know of. 
So, yeah, he gets, he gets some 

931
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,680
points from Aegon for being the 
the original, you know, like he 

932
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,480
a little bit of as much as Aegon
could have fondness and loyalty 

933
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,560
to somebody for, for things, you
know, it's hard to do that when 

934
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,720
you're a raging sociopathic 
narcissist. 

935
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,680
But, you know, still, he, he, he
had that inner lane. 

936
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,640
That first track accounts for 
something in the year 178. 

937
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,960
So Aegon has been king for seven
years. 

938
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,320
He's treated his wife horribly. 
He's had lots of mistresses. 

939
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:06,200
He's already had the the boy who
will be called Damon Blackfire, 

940
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,600
but isn't called that yet. 
The boy who is Bittersteal, who 

941
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,920
also isn't called Bittersteal. 
By the time he's, you know, 

942
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,280
seven years old, Bloodraven's 
been born aiming the Dragon 

943
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,680
Knight is not yet dead, but 
about to be dead. 

944
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,560
He dies around this time. 
So the Lostons come back around 

945
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,640
again. 
They're trying to do a 

946
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,400
Butterwell or a Bracken, but 
with better luck. 

947
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,360
What I mean by that is what did 
Lord Butterwell do? 

948
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,160
He tried to get close to Aegon 
the 4th by offering his 

949
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,600
daughters for the night while 
Aegon was visiting Castle White 

950
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,480
Walls. 
What did he what did he get in 

951
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,000
exchange for giving Aegon his 
daughters for the night? 

952
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,760
A dragon egg. 
If you recall that dragon egg 

953
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,200
was the prize for the Mystery 
Night tournament. 

954
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,520
Now for the Brackens, Barbara 
Bracken was the 5th mistress of 

955
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,520
Aegon and her sister Bethany was
the 7th and their father Lord 

956
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,400
Bracken had been Hand. 
Now Bethany if you recall was 

957
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,920
caught a bed with Sir Terrance 
Toyne of the Kingsguard by Aegon

958
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,400
himself. 
Now we theorize that this might 

959
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,800
have been arranged. 
Maybe someone got them caught on

960
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,880
purpose, who knows. 
Lucas would be a candidate for 

961
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,760
one of the people that might 
have arranged for this discovery

962
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,840
to happen because that's who 
swoops in next. 

963
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,760
Bethany is executed horribly, 
Lord Bracken is executed 

964
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,520
horribly. 
And who comes in? 

965
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,800
Lucas with Felina again, but 
with their daughter Jane 

966
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:35,120
Lawston, the aforementioned. 
She's now 14 years old, quickly 

967
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,120
becomes the 8th mistress of 
Aegon. 

968
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,520
So yeah, particularly young, but
arguably even worse. 

969
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,880
Well, definitely even worse if 
it's true. 

970
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,760
This might have been his own 
daughter, as we said earlier. 

971
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,880
So not only is this man was this
man selling his wife to the king

972
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,400
for favors, and before he was 
even king, he was doing that, 

973
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,240
he's selling his daughter, who 
might be that guy's daughter 

974
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,480
too, or instead of his, might 
not be his daughter, might be 

975
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,080
Aegon's daughter. 
Either way, it's like, really 

976
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:06,960
bad, right? 
Like, this is terrible. 

977
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,080
And yeah, Nina suggests some 
similar things here, that his 

978
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,320
familiarity with Aegon in the 
aftermath of Terence Bethany was

979
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,520
like, well, hey, I'm someone you
can trust. 

980
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,680
You've dealt with me before. 
I'm you know, you know me. 

981
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,400
I'm a known commodity. 
I'm you can have my daughter and

982
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,000
you know you won't feel betrayed
by that etcetera. 

983
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,880
So you know he was he found his 
in route again, and it worked 

984
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,680
better than it ever had before 
for the reward for Jane and 

985
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,800
maybe bringing Felina around 
again as Lucas was made hand to 

986
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,920
the king again. 
Egg on the unworthy name someone

987
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,560
hand to the king for good 
service in bringing him women 

988
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,800
right. 
This is a real comparison to 

989
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,840
Littlefinger. 
Again we again have Littlefinger

990
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,480
selling Jane Poole into sex. 
Even your name is Jane. 

991
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,200
Even in both cases to the 
Bolton's first to he has her in 

992
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,400
his own brothels and then sells 
her to the Bolton's as a fake 

993
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,720
Aria. 
And he's currently selling his 

994
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:11,040
daughter the same woman as as 
you know, to there's 

995
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,600
Littlefinger selling a Sansa quo
Elaine to Harry Harding. 

996
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,120
Yes, not actually his daughter, 
but everybody thinks she is. 

997
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,920
And the vibes are very much 
there. 

998
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,160
These similarities. 
So you got Lucas doing similar 

999
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:29,800
things with selling his wife and
daughter's honor or, you know, 

1000
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,360
sexual freedom or whatever you 
want to call it to for gain for 

1001
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,480
for mostly for himself. 
Now to make it more scandalous, 

1002
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,680
as if it could be there was a 
rumor worthy of Mushroom. 

1003
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,560
Except actually more believable 
than a lot of Mushroom salacious

1004
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,600
tales. 
A lot of what Mushroom says is 

1005
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,160
believable, but some of the 
things he says about sexual 

1006
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,040
escapades or less so. 
In this case, though, we're told

1007
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,240
that Aegon took both Felina and 
Jane Lawson into his bed at the 

1008
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,440
same time. 
Mother and daughter, possibly 

1009
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,720
his daughter. 
Yuck. 

1010
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:07,840
To be clear, all four of Aegon 
the Unworthy's hands got the job

1011
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:09,960
of hand after bringing him one 
or more women. 

1012
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,800
Yeah, Lucas being included. 
So Lucas may have noticed this 

1013
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,920
pattern. 
He of course noticed Aegon's 

1014
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,680
proclivities early on, and those
just escalated like, boy, the 

1015
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,560
more you bring Aegon a woman, 
the more he'll do for you. 

1016
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:29,080
But this didn't work out as it 
could have, certainly if Aegon, 

1017
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,840
or rather certainly if Lucas 
hadn't acquired the name Pander 

1018
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,440
yet. 
Well, it certainly would have 

1019
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,280
happened by this time. 
Now again, the the Brackens, you

1020
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,280
see why this is like the 
Brackens? 

1021
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,200
Because the, the Lord Bracken 
also had two daughters that were

1022
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,960
mistresses of egg on the fourth,
while two different Lostons, 

1023
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,560
mother and daughter were also 
mistresses. 

1024
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,520
That's four of the 9 mistresses 
right there covered by Bracken 

1025
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,280
and Loston. 
So it's interesting to consider 

1026
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,760
the all the interplay with the 
Blackfyre rebellions which we're

1027
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,640
moving towards very soon here in
this episode because obviously 

1028
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,600
the Brackens were huge in the 
Blackfyre rebellions as well and

1029
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,680
Bloodraven was too. 
And that's the the Blackwood 

1030
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,320
Bracken dynamic which is mixed 
up here in play with egg on the 

1031
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,080
Unworthy's mistresses as well. 
Because yes, Bracken mistress 

1032
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:19,280
was #5 Blackwood #6 bracken #7 
Lost in #8 The big difference 

1033
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:23,200
here is the lost in's don't have
a great bastard from these 

1034
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,160
unions. 
They might have Jane lost in. 

1035
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,040
Not a great bastard, but a very 
relevant 1. 

1036
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,840
But there wasn't some big male 
warrior figure leading troops or

1037
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,080
being noticed like she era Sea 
Star. 

1038
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:36,440
Instead they got Harrenhal 
right? 

1039
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:42,360
So Nina wonders as well whether 
George was thinking of Henry the

1040
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,520
Eighth and Anne Boleyn here. 
Who? 

1041
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:48,960
There's a rumor that that Anne 
Boleyn's mother Elizabeth Howard

1042
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,160
was a mistress to Henry himself,
and that maybe even Henry the 

1043
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,760
Eighth was the father of Anne 
Boleyn too. 

1044
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:58,000
Which this is not accurate. 
It didn't happen, but and 

1045
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,240
whether George knows that or not
is kind of immaterial. 

1046
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:04,560
He might not, but George would 
often choose the more salacious 

1047
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:05,880
sounding story because it's more
fun. 

1048
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,080
That doesn't mean he thinks it's
accurate, but he might. 

1049
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,440
He might be under the mistaken 
impression that that really 

1050
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,640
happened, but either way, he 
chose to use it for a story. 

1051
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,520
What actually happened was 
immediately after the Terence 

1052
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,280
Toyn Bethany Bracken incident 
where he caught them a bed, he 

1053
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,040
didn't immediately start 
sleeping with Jane and Felina 

1054
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:26,720
again. 
That apparently happened soon 

1055
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:29,480
after, but not immediately 
because he got pox from a sex 

1056
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,680
worker in between this and then 
he passed it on to Jane. 

1057
00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:35,880
Yeah, another piece of great 
luck for young Jane lost in 

1058
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,400
here. 
What a lucky young woman she is.

1059
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,880
So she got banished from court 
because he gave her pox? 

1060
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,520
Yeah, that's fair. 
And because Aegon is, well, the 

1061
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,120
unworthy, he banished Lord Lucas
and Felina as well, just because

1062
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,640
he gave their daughter pox. 
Yeah, at least they didn't have 

1063
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,800
their heads cut off like Lord 
Bracken, because at least there 

1064
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:00,360
wasn't any cheating going on 
here. 

1065
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,160
So immediately the fourth hand 
comes in, that's John Hightower.

1066
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,720
John Hightower begot that 
position by bringing Aegon 

1067
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:10,800
Shierra sea star. 
And Aegon dies six years later. 

1068
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:12,720
The loss of the story continues 
after this. 

1069
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:14,360
Like the Brackens, they're going
to get very involved in the 

1070
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,080
Black Fire rebellions, and 
there's going to be a lot more 

1071
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,320
plot lines, a lot more to come. 
In fact, I'd say the second-half

1072
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,800
of the story has a lot more 
detail, a lot more supernatural,

1073
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,840
a lot more familiar elements. 
This is when we'll get into 

1074
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,280
Jamie and Brianne and some other
elements that you know better 

1075
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,000
than the old school history 
stuff. 

1076
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,680
We've all heard the term mental 
health a million times. 

1077
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,080
It means different things to 
different people. 

1078
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,120
I want to talk about something 
called mental wealth, which is, 

1079
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,440
you know, it's a made-up concept
like everything is really, but 

1080
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,120
it's relevant, I think in 
thinking about how we deal with 

1081
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,200
things. 
I had a therapist once tell me 

1082
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,320
as this is my personal 
experience, that the things we 

1083
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,960
that happened to us when we're 
young, whether it's trauma or 

1084
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,680
just things that we struggle 
with because not everything 

1085
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:00,520
needs to be called trauma. 
I think that word is thrown 

1086
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,080
around a little too often these 
days, but legitimate trauma, not

1087
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:04,400
saying that isn't a real thing, 
of course. 

1088
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
You can describe a lot of the 
things you collect during your 

1089
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,160
life that burden you, we'll call
them that burdens as a beach 

1090
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,360
ball that you're trying to hold 
underwater. 

1091
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,280
It's struggling to get out. 
It's it's trying to fly out. 

1092
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,840
It's it's going to jump into the
air. 

1093
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,320
If it does escape, think of 
those as your problems. 

1094
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:23,960
If your problems escape, they 
fly out. 

1095
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,960
But if that beach ball is 
deflated, it won't fly out. 

1096
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,960
It'll just rise, come out, you 
know, And that's the metaphor 

1097
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,520
that she tried to impart to me 
for why it's important to 

1098
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,120
address your own mental health 
and take care of yourself. 

1099
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:42,440
And the concept of mental wealth
is, is building up a, a backlog,

1100
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,680
an extra like a, a cushion so 
that when bad things happen in 

1101
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,440
your life, you, you can rebound 
more quickly because you've got 

1102
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,000
a little bit extra, you've got a
little bit of cushion to burden 

1103
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,640
you or to, to rather, to bolster
you against negative things that

1104
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,280
may come along. 
And of course, negative things 

1105
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,320
will happen to everybody, right?
We like magic mind as part of 

1106
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,360
this process. 
It's not the whole process. 

1107
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,840
It's not a cure all, but it 
helps. 

1108
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,400
Having established routines with
doing things well for your body 

1109
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,080
and mind is absolutely going to 
pay dividends in the long run. 

1110
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:18,640
It is not a quick fix, it is not
a short term benefit, it is a 

1111
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:22,360
long term benefit. 
It is a commitment, but that is 

1112
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,560
where you get a lot of the best 
things by being committed to 

1113
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,560
something, sticking with it. 
Magic Mine has a new tool, a new

1114
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,200
drink, a sleep elixir. 
So it's sort of like they got 

1115
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,760
you at the in the morning for 
the regular Magic Mine and they 

1116
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,480
got you at night for sleep 
elixir. 

1117
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,960
This sleep elixir, I'm going to 
report my personal experience 

1118
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:42,840
with it, but I haven't gotten it
yet. 

1119
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:44,800
It's on the way to us right now,
but we have looked up the 

1120
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,080
ingredients and we have looked 
into it a bit. 

1121
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:53,000
Cava organic chamomile, GABA 5 
HTP, valerian, lemon balm, 

1122
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:57,840
lavender, MCT oil, no melatonin.
So we will report our personal 

1123
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,360
experience with it when we've 
had a chance to actually use it.

1124
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,360
I'm looking forward to it 
because I do have sleep issues. 

1125
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:04,760
I don't have any trouble falling
asleep. 

1126
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,640
I have trouble staying asleep. 
So I'm hoping this helps with 

1127
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:07,920
that. 
I'll let you know. 

1128
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,800
For now, you can get 45% off the
Magic Mine Bundle. 

1129
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,120
Meaning both products 45% off 
both. 

1130
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,080
That's a lot of savings. 
If you go to magicmind.com and 

1131
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:27,520
use the code VIP, how Jan 
VIPHOWJAN, that's right, VIP 

1132
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:33,160
history of Westeros January 45% 
off both the regular performance

1133
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,160
mental health shot and the 
mental wealth building sleep 

1134
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,240
elixir. 
We'll tell you more when we've 

1135
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,600
had a more of a chance to to to 
experiment with it ourselves and

1136
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,840
report back on that, but we're 
very excited for that. 

1137
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:52,480
Once again, magicmind.com VIP 
how jam 45% off sit insurance 

1138
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,400
for cities says a bat 
reputation. 

1139
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,480
He has to have a bad reputation.
A bat reputation. 

1140
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,880
There we go. 
Very good, Dolorous Lady Dane 

1141
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,560
says I don't give a damn about 
my bat reputation. 

1142
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,640
I don't give a damn about my bat
reputation. 

1143
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,440
Nice. 
And indeed, they don't really 

1144
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,760
seem to give a damn about that. 
And or they or they lean into it

1145
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,120
even more. 
It's like, I love my bat 

1146
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:15,000
reputation. 
Yeah. 

1147
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,480
Amanda Molyneux says Ghee Guy is
the guy I get my butter from. 

1148
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:24,080
Oh, that's a good pun. 
As in GHE e.g. we were calling 

1149
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,960
Guy Lawson or Ghee Guy. 
Yeah, he is the butter guy, the 

1150
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:29,920
butterman. 
We even mention a butter whale 

1151
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,400
in this one. 
Well, this is the real butter 

1152
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,920
whale here. 
As usual. 

1153
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,680
I can't help myself. 
I had to look up some bat facts.

1154
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,720
20% of mammals on this planet 
are bats. 

1155
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:47,320
They are the second most common 
species of mammals next to rats.

1156
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,600
So rats and bats. 
Like, why? 

1157
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,240
Why are you just the most common
things called rats, bats? 

1158
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,400
Are cats actually next? 
I don't think so, but that would

1159
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,240
be funny. 
They're the only mammal that can

1160
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:57,720
sustain flight. 
There's other mammals that can 

1161
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,560
like glide but sustain flight 
like staying and flapping. 

1162
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,360
And you know, there's squirrels 
that can glide and a few other 

1163
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,000
things, but that's the only 
mammal that can sustain fly. 

1164
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,840
They haven't evolved a ton in 
the past 50 ish million years, 

1165
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,080
which is kind of wild to think 
about. 

1166
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,480
There's some bats that are just 
not that different from 50 

1167
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,760
million years ago, but there are
some major changes even Despite 

1168
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,360
that. 
You would expect more than this,

1169
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,480
but the major changes they have 
had are significant. 

1170
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,080
Like echolocation. 
The earliest bats didn't have 

1171
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,520
the whole like radar bouncing 
technology that some of them 

1172
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,680
have now and they fly better 
than they used to. 

1173
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,040
Early bats would like go from 
tree to tree, they were more of 

1174
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,040
gliders. 
Now modern bats have evolved for

1175
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,160
full blown flying. 
There's two different types of 

1176
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:37,480
bats. 
Mostly they're categorized as 

1177
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,360
micro bats and mega bats. 
But like a lot of 

1178
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,400
categorizations these things 
aren't don't cover all bases. 

1179
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,760
Some micro bats are larger than 
some mega bats. 

1180
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,640
One of the major differences 
though, the micro bats use the 

1181
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,200
echolocation and the mega bats 
actually have pretty good 

1182
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,080
eyesight. 
Both types eat lots of insects, 

1183
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,200
including those that carry 
diseases like mosquitoes. 

1184
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,120
So that's good, but they can 
carry diseases themselves, so 

1185
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:03,040
that's not good. 
Some places they're considered a

1186
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,880
food source. 
Other places they're a food pest

1187
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,760
because they eat lots of fruit 
and that's not good. 

1188
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,280
If you're like, you know, you 
depend on orchards for your 

1189
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,240
living or something like that. 
Other places, they're so 

1190
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,680
interesting looking and in such 
great numbers that people go 

1191
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:19,920
there as a tourist attraction. 
So bats can be a tourist 

1192
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,640
attraction. 
They're a great example of 

1193
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:28,440
something that cultural views 
vary quite a lot in the West. 

1194
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,880
They're no, they have a pretty 
negative connotation, actually 

1195
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:35,440
very negative. 
Like witchcraft, vampires, 

1196
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:36,200
right? 
Death. 

1197
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,080
So this is what George has 
leaned into because this, you 

1198
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:42,120
know, most of Westeros is, well,
it's pretty Western in terms of 

1199
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,920
its physical location, but also 
in terms of most of the 

1200
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,320
influence is is Western, right, 
in terms of how George designed 

1201
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,240
the continent and the culture. 
But a lot of societies in the 

1202
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:57,040
world look at bats as a symbol 
of rebirth or long life. 

1203
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,280
But many cultures look at them 
as a sign of disease. 

1204
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,520
Many cultures look at them as a 
sign of anti disease. 

1205
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,920
And as we just explained, well, 
sometimes they are one or the 

1206
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,360
other. 
So that's actually rooted in 

1207
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,600
reality. 
If we turn our attention to bats

1208
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,960
in Westeros and Essos and such, 
the ones that George has 

1209
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,680
actually created, well, there's 
a few references here. 

1210
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:19,440
The hour of the bat is the first
hour of night. 

1211
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:23,480
It's right after sunset. 
Harpies of Greek and Roman myth 

1212
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,760
tend to have bird wings, usually
vulture or some other bird. 

1213
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:32,680
But for George, his harpies have
bat or dragon wings, so that's 

1214
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:34,440
kind of cool. 
Well, as depicted in Slaver's 

1215
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,280
Bay, there's a real creepy 
Pentashi deity that looks like a

1216
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,200
naked pregnant woman. 
You're like, wait, why is that 

1217
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:44,360
creepy? 
She has a bat's head. 

1218
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,240
OK, now you get it, right? 
That's creepy. 

1219
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:47,800
Yeah. 
Naked pregnant woman with a 

1220
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,320
bat's head. 
Yeah. 

1221
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,560
OK. 
There's also gigantic bats 

1222
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:58,040
living in the caves of the Green
Sears Branses, which might be a 

1223
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,480
different form of bat than you'd
find on Earth, because on Earth,

1224
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,240
bats live everywhere except the 
really cold places. 

1225
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,480
Maybe that's why they're in the 
caves, because it got cold, so 

1226
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,680
they went inside. 
There's also killer vampire bats

1227
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:14,160
in Sothorios. 
Real vampire bats are very 

1228
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,920
misunderstood. 
Yeah, they drink blood, but tiny

1229
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,920
amounts. 
One really funny fact about 

1230
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,880
vampire bats is they when they 
try to take blood from like a 

1231
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,760
cow or an animal with fur, they 
actually shave a tiny spot 

1232
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,880
first. 
They do like a little look, a 

1233
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,080
little mini scalpel and shave a 
little hair so they can get 

1234
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,680
their fangs in there without 
that little, you know, air 

1235
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,000
getting in their mouth or 
whatever. 

1236
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,960
They're very they're very 
fastidious blood drinkers. 

1237
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,240
The whole culture of blood 
drinking animals is really neat.

1238
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,400
Like vampire bats can will share
blood with each other, like the 

1239
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,640
cough up blood to share with 
each other because they don't 

1240
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,880
store energy very well. 
Blood it's not fat. 

1241
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,840
You can't store that very well. 
So like they have to eat 

1242
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:57,000
constantly. 
So they're at risk of 

1243
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,800
starvation. 
Anyway, let's get back to 

1244
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,400
Harrenhal and the Lostans. 
No more bat talk for now. 

1245
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,080
This section is called 
Harrenhal's Century of Blood. 

1246
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,720
Like I said before the break, we
had a lot more detail here and a

1247
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,480
lot more blood. 
Lucas had a very, very bad 

1248
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,920
reputation, but I'm not sure he 
was like a murderer or overly 

1249
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:17,360
violent. 
Maybe he was, but that's not 

1250
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:19,920
what he was known for. 
We don't know how he treated his

1251
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:21,680
subjects. 
I don't suspect he treated them 

1252
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,120
well, but you never know. 
We definitely know some things 

1253
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:27,720
about his descendants though 
that are bad. 

1254
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,320
We also don't know when he died.
Lucas that is. 

1255
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,880
But we're we're going to guess 
he outlived Egon the 4th. 

1256
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,640
Egon the 4th didn't die very old
and he obviously had huge health

1257
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,320
problems and. 
And Lucas was a warrior, a 

1258
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,600
swordsman. 
So he who and who. 

1259
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,120
As far as we know, he didn't die
in battle or anything, so he 

1260
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,080
might have lived a longer life. 
So we're guessing he lived into 

1261
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,840
early Deron's reign. 
Deron the Second's but maybe he 

1262
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:54,920
lived until the mid one 90s, we 
don't know. 

1263
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:58,280
We only know for a certain that 
he was dead by the time of the 

1264
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,360
first Black Fire rebellion in 
196 because we know Manfred of 

1265
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:03,920
the Black Hood had taken over by
then. 

1266
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,200
We also don't know what happened
to Jane. 

1267
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,320
Poor Jane Lawson, but given the 
pox and how her parents ruined 

1268
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,560
her reputation for gain, well, 
she likely had to marry down. 

1269
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,320
Maybe she had to marry a 
household knight. 

1270
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,920
It would be interesting if this 
Jane Lawson was the origin of 

1271
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,040
House Went. 
House Went is going to take the 

1272
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,840
castle after the Lostons. 
If you look at the Lost in 

1273
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,400
sigil, it's silver and gold 
background with a bat. 

1274
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,120
The silver and gold could maybe 
refer to, you know, the House 

1275
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,760
Targaryen giving them their 
their play here. 

1276
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,120
House Went sigil is 9 bats on 
gold. 

1277
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:39,960
So it does have the vibe of a 
cadet branch. 

1278
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:44,720
You know, the same sigil with 
more of them and one of the same

1279
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,440
two colors. 
So, yeah, we don't know how 

1280
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,360
Housewent came about. 
We do know they were household 

1281
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,640
Knights of of the Loftens who 
got the castle when they turned 

1282
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,160
on the Loftens at the at the 
crucial time later. 

1283
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,800
So that that's a good theory. 
I think that I don't have 

1284
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:02,040
another theory other than that 
Housewent just originated 

1285
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,600
somewhere and in the Riverlands 
and got their job and yeah, 

1286
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,080
that's what happened. 
We also don't know what happened

1287
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,040
with Felina. 
Maybe she outlived Lucas. 

1288
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:15,360
Maybe she helped Manfred rule, 
but there's also a small chance 

1289
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,560
she died before Lucas. 
Maybe he even remarried. 

1290
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:22,000
Regardless, it was their son 
Manfred who ascended to the 

1291
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,960
lordship. 
There's a character referred to 

1292
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,479
as Manfred with AY instead of an
E. 

1293
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,840
We are 100% assuming this is the
same person. 

1294
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,200
The timeline kind of connects 
them and it would be pretty 

1295
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,120
weird for these two people to 
exist at the same time given 

1296
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,000
their name. 
You probably can't tell the 

1297
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:41,240
difference if it's spoken aloud.
So yeah. 

1298
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,240
And again, this is around the 
era where we hear of that 

1299
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:48,080
bastard of Harrenhal losing to 
Sir Arlen a penny tree. 

1300
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,600
But let's go to the actual first
Black Fire rebellion, rather the

1301
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:57,640
memory of it from our good old 
friend Sir Eustace quote. 

1302
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,080
Sir Eustace cradled his wine cup
in both hands. 

1303
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,800
If Damon had ridden over Gwain 
Corbray. 

1304
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,760
If Fireball had not been slain 
on the eve of battle. 

1305
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,399
If Hightower and Tarbek and 
Oakhart and Butterwell had lent 

1306
01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:18,319
us their full strength instead 
of trying to keep 1 foot in each

1307
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:21,600
camp. 
If Manfred Lofton had proved 

1308
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:26,720
true instead of treacherous. 
If storms had not delayed Lord 

1309
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,800
Bracken's sailing with the 
Mirish crossbowmen. 

1310
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:34,240
If Quick Finger had not been 
caught with the stolen Dragon's 

1311
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:38,240
eggs. 
So many ifs Sarah. 

1312
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:43,279
Had anyone come out differently,
it could all have turned to 

1313
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:45,800
other way. 
It's hard to be sure of whether 

1314
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:49,399
this means Manfred turned on 
Damon Blackfyre or simply 

1315
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:51,040
promised his support and didn't 
show up. 

1316
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:55,080
I leaned towards the former 
though, because I suspect a lot 

1317
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,920
of houses didn't show up, but I 
doubt that many if any others 

1318
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:02,000
fully switched sides during and 
he's names Manfred lost in 

1319
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:06,360
specifically rather than saying 
if any number of these Lords 

1320
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:09,560
didn't show up or did show up 
instead of not showing up. 

1321
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,520
This this sounds a little more 
of a heavier indictment than 

1322
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,600
simply not showing up. 
So I I think that this was a 

1323
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,920
full change of of sides here. 
Nina suggests yeah, it could be 

1324
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,280
a little of column A, little of 
column B Manfred could have made

1325
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:27,040
promises to support Damon but 
decided to change sides, 

1326
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,600
realized his fortunes were would
be better to to stay loyal and 

1327
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,720
or maybe someone induced him. 
He was given a reason by the 

1328
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:41,680
king or by the someone on the 
small council, something that 

1329
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,800
induced him back or threatened 
him. 

1330
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,400
Probably more likely a benefit 
than a threat though that would 

1331
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,360
have moved him. 
Nina also wonders if there was 

1332
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,200
any bad blood later between 
Bittersteel and Manfred, given 

1333
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,960
the the treatment of the Bracken
women and Jane and then what 

1334
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:57,520
would happen with the Lostons 
afterwards. 

1335
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,880
Like maybe from Bittersteel's 
perspective, it might look like 

1336
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,000
the theory we floated it was 
more salient, like he might be 

1337
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:09,760
confident that's what happened, 
meaning that the Lostons got 

1338
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:15,080
Bethany caught, and that's by 
the king, and we're able to 

1339
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:17,800
swoop in and bring Aegon the 
next mistress because they 

1340
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,400
eliminated Bethany from the 
picture so they could take the 

1341
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:23,880
mistress spot from Aegon and 
become Hand to the king 

1342
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,720
themselves. 
So from a distance, Bittersteel 

1343
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,280
might see it that way. 
He wouldn't have been in court 

1344
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:30,840
for any of that. 
He would have been fled over the

1345
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:34,440
Narrow Sea, and he would have 
just heard from his spies and 

1346
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,880
gotten piece meal information. 
But we think this theory is 

1347
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,480
valid even without Bittersteel's
angle. 

1348
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:43,200
So we could definitely see why 
he would believe it, and it 

1349
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,160
could even be true. 
It might even be real, like we 

1350
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:46,520
might be. 
He might believe it because it 

1351
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,800
really happened. 
Either way, he wouldn't be happy

1352
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,040
about what happened on the red 
grass field. 

1353
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,400
He definitely didn't. 
He definitely wouldn't trust 

1354
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:56,720
Manfred over not showing up at 
the red grass field if not 

1355
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:58,680
showing up on the other side. 
So there's both. 

1356
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,520
There's multiple reasons why 
Better Steel might dislike or 

1357
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:03,600
distrust Manfred. 
Either way though, we got to 

1358
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:06,160
wonder why did he initially join
game and why did he side with 

1359
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,200
the black fires? 
Right he the Lawson's owed their

1360
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,320
support to the status quo. 
They got their appointment not 

1361
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,280
that long before from the royal 
house, not from the black fires.

1362
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:19,400
So you would think that they 
were still sort of owing the 

1363
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,760
crown a bit for what happened, 
which maybe is why they didn't 

1364
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,000
go through with it. 
I mean, remember Damon's 

1365
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,920
supporters were mostly second 
tier houses and second sons. 

1366
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,200
Right now the difference here, 
the reason you might see them 

1367
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,760
wanting to fight for Damon is 
because if Damon wins, a lot of 

1368
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,280
the old traditions are thrown 
out of the out the window. 

1369
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,720
Sure, some of them are what he's
specifically trying to defend. 

1370
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,200
Damon was a traditionalist in 
many ways, but in his new court,

1371
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,320
if he has a new small council, 
it's not going to have any Reds 

1372
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:49,480
on it. 
It's all going to be people that

1373
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,360
supported him. 
And most of his supporters are 

1374
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,520
new blood or at least second 
tier. 

1375
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:56,960
So that's the loss to an angle 
potentially here is that hey, if

1376
01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,000
they are on the winning side of 
the rebels, there's a better 

1377
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,240
chance for a high position 
afterwards than amongst the old 

1378
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,720
guard. 
It's harder to get a reward when

1379
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:12,040
all the big players, Baratheon 
and Lannister and Stark or maybe

1380
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:13,120
the Starks might not have been 
involved. 

1381
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:14,960
But you see what I'm saying? 
All these big names were 

1382
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,120
fighting for the loyalists. 
How are the losses going to 

1383
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,680
stand out amongst all that and 
deserve some big reward? 

1384
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,440
The bigger rewards, we're on 
Damon's side, but so are the 

1385
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:25,520
bigger risks. 
And that might have been what 

1386
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,360
the risk reward calculation 
might have changed. 

1387
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,800
If someone comes to the lawsuit 
to say, hey, look, if you change

1388
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,960
sides to us or just stay out of 
it, we'll give you this. 

1389
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,840
All of a sudden they don't have 
as much to incentive to to try 

1390
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,120
to win something from Damon. 
They're like, well, we've gotten

1391
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,600
50% of that value for just 
sitting here doing nothing. 

1392
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,840
Why risk everything for a little
more? 

1393
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,440
So this is just a theory, of 
course, but that's all we have 

1394
01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:53,240
to work with. 
We know Damon was turned on by 

1395
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:54,280
Manfred. 
We just don't know the 

1396
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,600
circumstances and much else 
besides that. 

1397
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,880
It's still very compelling 
mystery and one I'd love to know

1398
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,800
more about. 
So yeah, you could see why they 

1399
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,200
might have angled for a bigger 
reward, as there's an ambitious 

1400
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,200
element to this. 
And you can see how that would 

1401
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:14,280
make things more difficult in 
the future for Lost in Black 

1402
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,480
Fire relations. 
But as we'll say see later, lost

1403
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:21,640
in in Blackfyre sort of sort of 
kind of made-up later. 

1404
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:23,560
Let's let's get to that. 
We got to move forward a little 

1405
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,480
a little more before we get to 
that though, if we consider 

1406
01:14:27,480 --> 01:14:29,840
still in the first Blackfyre 
rebellion, what a big deal this 

1407
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,640
would have been. 
Again, I I have to keep pointing

1408
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:34,520
this out. 
Harrenhal is not far from King's

1409
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,880
Landing two weeks ride or so. 
That's huge given the proximity 

1410
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,120
to the royal seat. 
If Damon has Harrenhal, that's 

1411
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:44,360
enormous. 
He's striking distance from the 

1412
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,960
capital. 
That's a massive military 

1413
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,120
problem for the Reds, right? 
He has this giant castle. 

1414
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:53,440
He can put all sorts of troops 
there. 

1415
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:57,360
They they don't know when he's 
going to emanate Forth allows 

1416
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,600
him to have a place to retreat 
and recover. 

1417
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:05,760
It's really bad for the Reds. 
If the black dragon gets 

1418
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,480
Harrenhal, what happened in the 
conquest? 

1419
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:09,960
It's the first thing they're 
going to conquer. 

1420
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:11,840
Did he destroyed Harrenhal? 
What happened in the Dance of 

1421
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:13,680
the Dragons? 
Is the first castle Prince 

1422
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:17,320
Damon, whom Damon Blackfyre's 
name for took at the beginning 

1423
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:19,640
and of course during the Dance 
of the Dragons Harrenhal changed

1424
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,600
times multiple times right it it
it changed hands multiple times.

1425
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:26,560
Ditto the war of 5 kings. 
What does Tywin do almost right 

1426
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:28,280
away and the war of Kings 5 
kings breaks out. 

1427
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,480
He takes Harrenhal right almost 
immediately. 

1428
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,200
It's so common as a first 
target. 

1429
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:39,280
So the Lostons may have made use
of that like, hey, we're we're 

1430
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:41,520
all of a sudden we're in the 
center of of the action here. 

1431
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,240
We are in a crucial place. 
Let's play our hand. 

1432
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,200
Well, we can be rewarded by it. 
Yeah. 

1433
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:48,520
So there's a lot of things here.
Now, as far as this bastard of 

1434
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,120
Harrenhal character, I keep 
bringing him up even though we 

1435
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,720
know very little about him. 
Good chance he fought in this 

1436
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:53,920
war. 
He fought in a tournament in 

1437
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,480
193. 
And the war was only three years

1438
01:15:55,480 --> 01:15:58,760
later. 
But if the Lostans stayed out of

1439
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,360
the war, then he probably lived 
on. 

1440
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,240
If he fought in it, Nah, decent 
chance he died again. 

1441
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,920
Let's talk about specifically 
about man for the Black Hood a 

1442
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,920
little more than some of these 
decisions that happened. 

1443
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,080
We don't know if he was rewarded
for switching sides, but when 

1444
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,120
you switch sides, yes, you can 
benefit from it. 

1445
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,480
But going forward, it tends to 
look bad because it's no one 

1446
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:19,480
will trust you from that point 
on. 

1447
01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:20,640
At least they won't trust you 
fully. 

1448
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,200
They have to really think, OK, 
unless he's really bought in, 

1449
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,600
unless we know for sure he has 
incentive to fight with us, we 

1450
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,840
can't trust him. 
Now Lucas himself wasn't born in

1451
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,760
Harrenhal and there's no reason 
to think he had Targaryen blood.

1452
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:36,000
But we kept, we talked about how
Felina kept sleeping with Aegon 

1453
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,800
the Unworthy. 
So this man for the Black Hood 

1454
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:43,320
might have been Targaryen. 
He might have been of bat and 

1455
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:45,400
dragon. 
This opens up some fun 

1456
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,160
supernatural rabbit holes 
regarding dreams and such. 

1457
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,920
He might have inherited 
something, some supernatural 

1458
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,120
elements in his bloodline. 
We don't know the full story of 

1459
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,760
the interplay of Targaryen 
blood. 

1460
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,320
Herrenhall, the curse, the 
proximity, the God's eye, Alice,

1461
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,840
Amond, their child. 
There's a lot of things that are

1462
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:08,000
rolled up into this mystery. 
This is part of it, though. 

1463
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,120
There's undoubtedly Manfred of 
the Black Hood belongs in this 

1464
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:16,000
pastiche of Herrenhall bloodline
mysteries because he might be 

1465
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,920
part Targaryen. 
And even if he isn't, frankly, 

1466
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,120
all the Lords of Herrenhall are 
interesting in some way or 

1467
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:23,720
another. 
This guy also has some creepy 

1468
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:26,520
nickname, and we've no idea what
that means either. 

1469
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,440
More on that in a minute. 
But again, being close to King's

1470
01:17:30,440 --> 01:17:33,240
Landing, Manfred of the Black 
Hood, was he at court much? 

1471
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:36,280
We know Lucas was a bit because 
he started there. 

1472
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,600
He was the master at arms, so he
would have been well known at 

1473
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:40,920
court. 
So Man from the Black Hood could

1474
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,440
have been a recluse who stayed 
in his towers. 

1475
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:48,440
And his reputation grew 
accordingly as a as a mysterious

1476
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:50,720
dark figure that no one saw very
often. 

1477
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,120
Or maybe he was someone that 
came to court and made pitches 

1478
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:58,000
and asked for stuff. 
And these are all fun things to 

1479
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:04,400
imagine if he was alive when his
parents did what they did with 

1480
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,920
with Jane, which he a party to 
that meaning a witness to that 

1481
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:09,800
he would have been too young to 
like weigh in. 

1482
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,800
But like you see your parents 
treat your sister like that to 

1483
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,000
sell her to the king or to the 
Prince. 

1484
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,400
What does that do to your 
worldview? 

1485
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:20,520
In addition to growing up in a 
place like Harrenhal, I can kind

1486
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,560
of see why Manfred of the Black 
Hood was a bad dude. 

1487
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:28,440
Like he didn't have the most 
uplifting ethical upbringing, 

1488
01:18:28,440 --> 01:18:30,120
right? 
Like this is a guy brought up in

1489
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:34,040
a cursed dark place with a 
father who is a real scumbag and

1490
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,360
it might have thrown off his 
royalty because he, yeah, Lucas 

1491
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,080
was scummy, but a lot of people 
looked on him as positively. 

1492
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,360
So what have we like this guy is
thought of as good. 

1493
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:45,240
So this is good. 
Maybe he maybe he thinks he was 

1494
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,120
brought up to think of some 
things that are like blatantly 

1495
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:49,800
evil is actually good. 
A very different world view when

1496
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,240
you live in live and exist and 
grow at Harrenhal, right? 

1497
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:54,760
How much other bad blood would 
there have been between him? 

1498
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,720
We talked about bitter Steel, 
but but there's a lot of other 

1499
01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,560
Blackfire supporters that would 
have been around that would have

1500
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,240
looked negatively on a house 
that started off supporting them

1501
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,680
and then switched sides. 
That's that's worse than just 

1502
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,160
starting off on the other side 
there. 

1503
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:08,480
Wow. 
You treat traitor. 

1504
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,760
Everyone hates the turn cloak no
matter what side they turn to. 

1505
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,400
Right. 
That's the Westerosi thing. 

1506
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:18,200
Yeah, it it exists in other 
places too, but you all know 

1507
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:19,560
that it's a big deal in 
Westeros. 

1508
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:21,560
Was there ever a marriage on the
table, I wonder? 

1509
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:24,760
Well, maybe Damon offered one of
his daughters to Manfred Lawson 

1510
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:29,040
and then that offer got pulled 
and that's why Manfred switched.

1511
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,120
Or maybe maybe someone else 
offered him a marriage. 

1512
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:34,400
We don't know who Manfred 
married. 

1513
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,240
I don't know who his wife was. 
And maybe it was maybe the the 

1514
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,520
the Reds offered him somebody. 
Not a Targaryen probably or 

1515
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,440
almost certainly not, but maybe 
a bride of status, a powerful 

1516
01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:47,840
marriage that he said, OK, this 
is a sufficient reward for me 

1517
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,360
and I'll back out of my 
Blackfyre support and take this 

1518
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:54,520
woman to be my wife and or, or 
maybe someone for his son, maybe

1519
01:19:54,520 --> 01:20:00,640
a a promised bride or or husband
for Manfred's descendants. 

1520
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:05,280
And Speaking of did he have any?
Probably, but maybe not again, 

1521
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:07,960
Harrenhal. 
It's tricky like the sterility 

1522
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:09,760
issue, the descendants issues 
there. 

1523
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:12,480
Harrenhal is, is cursed in that 
sense, whether supernaturally or

1524
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:15,960
otherwise. 
Jane was his sister, but was 

1525
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,040
there any other brothers or 
sisters and what children did 

1526
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,040
any of them have that? 
We just have no idea. 

1527
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,480
So yeah, what did what does oh, 
the black hood mean? 

1528
01:20:23,480 --> 01:20:25,400
What does Manfred of the black 
hood mean? 

1529
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,360
Did he sneak around? 
Was he like a? 

1530
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,560
Voyeur, I see the man behind a 
lot of dark deeds, like a a 

1531
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,320
puller of strings, evil strings 
like you never the man behind 

1532
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:37,840
the mask, that kind of thing. 
It it does seem like a an 

1533
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,560
obscuring device, like the hood 
keeps you from knowing things 

1534
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:43,480
about him, like he was a 
secretive guy. 

1535
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,400
The most mundane idea I can come
up with is that he had birth 

1536
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,240
marks or malformity that he kept
hidden, which you could maybe 

1537
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:53,560
blame on Harrenhal or the 
Targaryen bloodlines even maybe 

1538
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,360
a little of column A, a little 
column B, Nina says always we 

1539
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:58,000
should consider that it's a 
little of both. 

1540
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,240
That's always of almost always a
valid option. 

1541
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:04,000
So maybe he disguised himself. 
Maybe he had disfigurements. 

1542
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:08,440
Maybe the black hood is just his
kind of calling card of, well, 

1543
01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:10,560
that's a black hooded thing to 
do. 

1544
01:21:11,120 --> 01:21:14,080
You know, if you see a black 
hooded rider coming their way 

1545
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,320
towards you, you don't think 
maybe this will work out. 

1546
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,760
You know, that's that's like a 
pretty ominous thing, right? 

1547
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,160
So, so maybe it's kind of vague,
but the connotation is 

1548
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:24,080
definitely dark. 
Like you don't think of that as 

1549
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:25,240
neutral. 
I don't think. 

1550
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:28,000
George R Martin was an avid 
reader of comics. 

1551
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,880
And there was a character 
created in the 40s called Black 

1552
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:34,440
Hood who was very popular. 
He even had his own radio 

1553
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:37,320
serial. 
And this was an Archie Comics 

1554
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:40,160
production before it was called 
Archie Comics, but it was 

1555
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:43,720
eventually integrated into DC 
and even in the Riverdale TV 

1556
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:45,080
show. 
Yeah, Black Hood was in the 

1557
01:21:45,080 --> 01:21:46,600
Riverdale TV show. 
How wild is that? 

1558
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,480
So he was created in the 40s and
still around in this Riverdale 

1559
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:52,440
TV show, which I are they still 
making Riverdale that TV show or

1560
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:53,920
is I know that was fairly 
recent. 

1561
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,040
And it had a really crazy 
ending. 

1562
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:59,640
I'll tell you about it after the
stream, but however crazy you 

1563
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:04,440
think this ending is, it's so 
much more like wild than you 

1564
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:06,480
could conceive. 
Of so it's black hood is like 

1565
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:08,240
just it's nothing compared to 
that stuff. 

1566
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:16,120
Wild Anyway the black hood drove
the hood cycle nice. 

1567
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:21,160
The hood cycle and the hood 
later made the black hood like 

1568
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:23,200
this. 
He made an actual object called 

1569
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,760
the black hood and it was a 
cursed object like it would, it 

1570
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,200
was like a like a Zorro ish kind
of thing. 

1571
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:33,200
Or you know, like the shrouded 
Lord situation where whoever 

1572
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:35,080
wears it becomes the next black 
hood. 

1573
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,080
But it was cursed like it had a 
personality of its own. 

1574
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,440
It would impart like evil into 
the wearer. 

1575
01:22:39,480 --> 01:22:42,240
There's also a black hood magic 
item in the game Eldon Ring, 

1576
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,920
which George contributed to some
world building and stuff, but 

1577
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:46,000
that might just be a 
coincidence. 

1578
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:48,600
I mean black hood isn't that 
specific a thing. 

1579
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:50,360
But hey maybe maybe that's from 
George. 

1580
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,320
Let's talk about Mad Denel, the 
most famous of lost ends. 

1581
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,720
Most likely there's room between
Manfred and Danielle on the 

1582
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:03,760
timeline in terms of maybe Mad 
Danielle isn't Manfred's 

1583
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:05,680
daughter. 
He might be her sister. 

1584
01:23:05,720 --> 01:23:10,040
He might be his sister rather. 
And there's so much there's 

1585
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:12,520
there's not so much space in 
between them on the timeline 

1586
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:14,080
that we have to have someone 
between them there. 

1587
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,840
There's room for another 
generation, but that we don't 

1588
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:17,840
have to. 
I'm going to assume there 

1589
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:19,520
wasn't. 
I'm going to assume it went from

1590
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,360
Manfred to Danielle and that's 
it. 

1591
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,440
By 212, Danielle Lawson was Lady
of Harrenhal. 

1592
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:27,280
So yeah, we don't actually know 
when Manford died. 

1593
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:30,040
By the time Sir Eustace was 
talking about Manfred's 

1594
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:31,600
betrayal, Manfred may have 
already been dead. 

1595
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,800
But but Sir Eustace was talking 
about Manfred's betrayal in the 

1596
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,800
year 210. 
That's when the sworn sword 

1597
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,320
takes place. 
So yeah, Danielle could have 

1598
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:45,120
been a sister or daughter. 
Manfred, like I said, she could 

1599
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:47,160
have also been like a cousin, 
who knows? 

1600
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,720
We don't have a lot of idea how 
old she was. 

1601
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,560
So it's it's it's hard to nail 
down, especially because she was

1602
01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:58,440
rumored to bathe in blood to 
preserve her age, which that 

1603
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:00,160
throws off aging even more, 
right? 

1604
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,800
Like even if we assume that 
didn't work, well, maybe she 

1605
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:07,920
looked young because something 
is causing people to say this 

1606
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,440
about her, even if it's not 
nearly the truth. 

1607
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:13,960
So if she was Manfred's sister 
then it applies. 

1608
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:16,920
Manfred died without issue or 
his children predeceased him 

1609
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:18,480
which helps with the possibility
of murder. 

1610
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:22,600
Maybe Donnell killed Manfred's 
children and took the castle for

1611
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,840
herself, but that's pretty big 
speculation. 

1612
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,360
And the same things are possible
if she was Manfred's daughter. 

1613
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:30,960
Like maybe maybe she had older 
brothers and killed them, or one

1614
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,480
older brother and killed him. 
But that's just totally random. 

1615
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:36,360
There's no suggestion she's a 
kinslayer. 

1616
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:38,360
I'm just saying we can't rule it
out right? 

1617
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,120
It's just one of the more 
salacious possibilities. 

1618
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,760
It's entirely possible that 
Herrenhall just did its thing. 

1619
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,760
There were very few descendants,
and she was the oldest. 

1620
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,960
And it's that simple. 
And there's another element that

1621
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:52,240
could really throw this whole 
thing off. 

1622
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:54,160
Not throw it off, but make 
things worse, which is the great

1623
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:57,320
spring sickness, right? 
The great Spring sickness killed

1624
01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:59,680
a lot of people. 
It was particularly bad in the 

1625
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:04,400
Riverlands, where Herrenhall is.
And Herrenhall is known for 

1626
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:09,640
being, you know, damp, humid, 
Maybe, so possibly more 

1627
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,840
susceptible to something like 
the great Spring Sickness. 

1628
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:13,600
So yeah, that could have hit 
them pretty hard. 

1629
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,280
Some the Lostons might have been
doing pretty well before that. 

1630
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:18,120
And all of a sudden, there's 
very few Lostons left. 

1631
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:22,360
And that may be, in fact, the 
precise event that moved the 

1632
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,240
castle from Manfred's lordship 
to Danielle's ladyship. 

1633
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:31,400
Just like Manfred, we have no 
idea who she married, if anyone,

1634
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,000
which would certainly add to her
reputation if she chose to not 

1635
01:25:35,000 --> 01:25:37,920
marry. 
And it also wouldn't help the 

1636
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:41,760
house continue. 
Though here's when we actually 

1637
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:46,040
see her briefly though quote. 
From Maidenpool had come Lord 

1638
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:51,200
Mooton, from Raven Tree, Lord 
Blackwood, from Duskindale, Lord

1639
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,240
Darklin. 
The royal domains about King's 

1640
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:59,880
Landing sent forth Hayford's, 
Rosbys, Stokeworth's, Massey's, 

1641
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,440
and the King's Own sworn swords,
led by three Knights of the 

1642
01:26:04,440 --> 01:26:11,200
Kingsguard and stiffened by 300 
Ravens teeth with tall white 

1643
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,760
weirwood bows. 
Mad Donnell, lost in herself, 

1644
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:20,160
rode forth in strength from her 
haunted towers at Harrenhal, 

1645
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:26,400
clad in black armor that fit her
like an iron glove, her long red

1646
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:30,720
hair streaming. 
Quite a striking figure like 

1647
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:35,560
Lord Mouton, Lord Blackwood, 
Lord Darklin, all these names 

1648
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,760
but only one person gets a 
description and a specific first

1649
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:40,600
name here. 
Out of all these people she's 

1650
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,440
way the most striking. 
It inspires people like Ashaya 

1651
01:26:43,440 --> 01:26:47,160
herself to dress this way, which
I believe is now on screen. 

1652
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:49,760
How cool is that? 
Look at this Ashaya as mad 

1653
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,960
Danielle lost and less mad more 
lost in. 

1654
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:59,440
Also have to the Right Art of 
Donnell by Lady Ray Ray Laverne 

1655
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:05,080
and that's on the wiki and it's 
a a case of art imitating life. 

1656
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:08,160
Very cool. 
So yeah, thanks to Ray for 

1657
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:09,920
shouting out to Shay's look 
there. 

1658
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:12,000
It looks great. 
And she still has that costume. 

1659
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:13,800
Yeah, the armor still we, I 
told. 

1660
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,960
That he should wear it today. 
Yeah, I thought about it, but 

1661
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:18,400
it's not the most comfortable 
thing. 

1662
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:22,080
Armor is is rarely comfortable, 
so red hair not uncommon in the 

1663
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:23,920
Riverland. 
So by itself maybe that doesn't 

1664
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:26,120
say a lot, but we do have 
something to say about it. 

1665
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:28,800
The stoke worse would be her 
Ken, of course, and she descends

1666
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:30,160
from Felina and they get 
mentioned here. 

1667
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:31,960
So that's kind of fun. 
And again, she might have been 

1668
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,960
Targaryen, right? 
If she descends from Aegon the 

1669
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:40,400
Unworthy, then, which is very 
possible, then she might have 

1670
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:42,200
Targaryen blood. 
But there's no mention of her 

1671
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:45,000
husband either. 
There's no mention of like Lady 

1672
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,720
Loston with her husband, 
blankety blank or anything. 

1673
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:51,640
Just rode forth from strength, 
rode forth in strength. 

1674
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:55,560
No sons, no relatives, just just
her apparently, which is 

1675
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,000
interesting. 
Maybe she has one of her 

1676
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,920
relatives running the castle 
while she's gone, or maybe her 

1677
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:02,720
castle land is from a completely
unrelated house. 

1678
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,240
Maybe it's house went. 
It's also more evidence that the

1679
01:28:06,440 --> 01:28:10,320
Lostons were powerful, right? 
This is not the this is not 

1680
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:12,840
house towers. 
This is not a a house that's 

1681
01:28:13,160 --> 01:28:15,840
unable to afford their castle so
they become a non factor. 

1682
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:20,040
She rode forth in strength. 
It said that doesn't you don't 

1683
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:25,040
have lots of soldiers and arms 
and and weapons and armor. 

1684
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:29,560
If your house is impoverished, 
Most likely they are potentially

1685
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:31,880
still benefiting from Lucas's 
pandering. 

1686
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:35,480
In other words, the rewards 
heaped upon this family from egg

1687
01:28:35,480 --> 01:28:38,600
on the fourth are probably still
in play here. 

1688
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,680
And possibly because those are 
providing income like if they're

1689
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:44,520
if he gave them more land, which
is the most likely thing, then 

1690
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:46,280
yeah, they're getting passive 
income from all that. 

1691
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:48,720
Maybe not passive income, but 
income from all that semi 

1692
01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:50,880
passive income to pay for all 
these things. 

1693
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:55,120
Now during the second Black Fire
rebellion, which is what this is

1694
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:56,960
describing, right? 
This is the end of the mystery 

1695
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,440
night that we're seeing in that 
quote. 

1696
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:06,160
Dunk overheard earlier in the 
short story that they expected 

1697
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:10,040
Donnell to join them. 
Instead she comes in strength 

1698
01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:13,600
against them, which might be 
political. 

1699
01:29:13,840 --> 01:29:18,840
She might know that she is 
perceived as a possible Black 

1700
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:22,880
Fire loyalist, so she does 
everything she can to throw off 

1701
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,120
that notion and say, no, I'm 
showing up in strength to 

1702
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,040
support the king. 
I am putting these Black Fire 

1703
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:33,200
rumors to rest. 
And given the uncertain nature 

1704
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,000
of how things played out during 
the first rebellion with Manfred

1705
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,800
switching sides, Lady Danielle 
might have wanted to make a very

1706
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,480
strong statement of who she 
supported. 

1707
01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:45,240
Very public, very well known. 
Again, she's makes the striking 

1708
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:46,960
figure, so it's kind of easy for
her to be. 

1709
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:49,920
I want to make sure I'm noticed.
For me, that's easy. 

1710
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:52,760
I am very noticeable. 
So this shouldn't be too hard. 

1711
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,840
Let me just ride to war in my 
fitting armor with my long red 

1712
01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:58,640
hair. 
Very few people are going to 

1713
01:29:58,640 --> 01:29:59,800
look like that on the 
battlefield. 

1714
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:01,640
There's very few women on the 
battlefield. 

1715
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:03,560
I'm going to be in charge of 
these men, blah, blah, blah. 

1716
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:04,720
I'm going to make a striking 
figure. 

1717
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,320
She knows what she's doing. 
She knows she's going to be 

1718
01:30:07,320 --> 01:30:08,520
seen. 
She's not wearing a helmet. 

1719
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:10,280
She. 
Her hair is streaming behind 

1720
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:11,520
her. 
Yeah, well, or if she is wearing

1721
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,080
a helmet, you can still see her 
hair. 

1722
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:15,960
So that's interesting that the 
Black Fire conspirators thought 

1723
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:19,880
she would join. 
And then very much didn't. 

1724
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:24,640
So maybe they thought that if 
they won that she was going to 

1725
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:26,160
maybe they were right. 
Maybe she would have joined if 

1726
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:28,600
things actually went well. 
I mean, if we're being honest, 

1727
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:31,320
this whole thing was a disaster.
So why would she join them at at

1728
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,800
this point? 
Maybe she was planning to join 

1729
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:36,840
and This is why she came out so 
strong against them because 

1730
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:40,200
she's worried blood Raven might 
know she's really got to be 

1731
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,840
really got to be public about 
this and take no chances. 

1732
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:49,000
So they saw the black fires as 
finished and want to make sure 

1733
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,400
that they're among those to spit
on their graves so that they are

1734
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:56,360
seen doing that again. 
If she's going to get taken down

1735
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:58,600
in about 20 years after this, 
which is what happens, she loses

1736
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,680
her seat roughly 20 years after 
this, maybe 15, something like 

1737
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:03,280
that. 
She may have already been on 

1738
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:05,000
thin ice. 
She may have already had a bad 

1739
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:07,080
reputation her her family 
probably did. 

1740
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:10,480
And despite her. 
So given she's going to lose her

1741
01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:13,360
seat not that long after, we can
imagine that maybe she was 

1742
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:16,400
already feeling that pressure. 
Maybe there was already people 

1743
01:31:16,400 --> 01:31:17,960
coming after her. 
Maybe there was already the 

1744
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,760
rumors were started. 
Notice that quote says Mad 

1745
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:23,560
Danielle lost and came forth. 
Mad Danielle. 

1746
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:26,440
This is the year 212. 
We're told that she lost her 

1747
01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:29,680
seat because she turned to the 
dark arts. 

1748
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:34,920
Well, but she's already called 
mad in this era before she 

1749
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:38,280
turned to the dark arts. 
So that's a little a little 

1750
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:42,160
curious, not like a a flaw, but 
it implies that she had a 

1751
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,280
reputation before she even 
turned to the dark arts. 

1752
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:47,840
Now, Nina has a great theory 
here. 

1753
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,720
It's possible that like Visenya 
and maybe Alice Rivers, who is 

1754
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,360
even has a greater connection 
here in a lot of ways because 

1755
01:31:55,360 --> 01:32:00,120
of, well, Harrenhal, obviously, 
maybe Donnell turned magic or 

1756
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:04,640
dark arts to have a child to try
to force a pregnancy or to 

1757
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:08,120
conjure a pregnancy again. 
That's why I bring up Visenya, 

1758
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:11,440
because, yeah, Vicenya might 
have done that with Magor, and 

1759
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:14,040
that's why we talked about Magor
the way we did at the beginning 

1760
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,640
of this episode, why Guy lost 
and might have been attached to 

1761
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:18,720
him. 
Not just as a way to show this 

1762
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:20,600
house is always associated with 
evil. 

1763
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:23,560
Whether it's Magor, whether it's
curses, whether it's 

1764
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:28,480
cannibalism, whether it's blood 
magic, whether it's pandering, 

1765
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,360
whether it's gross, incestuous 
sexual things. 

1766
01:32:32,440 --> 01:32:36,680
Yeah, so with Visenya's 
rumouring that, you know, 

1767
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:40,080
Visenya just had Megor when she 
was 40 and Aegon couldn't seem 

1768
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,360
to conceive it was it's it's 
peculiar. 

1769
01:32:42,360 --> 01:32:47,880
We've talked about it elsewhere 
and I I'm big on this theory as 

1770
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:49,640
a potential. 
Certainly not enough to say it's

1771
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:55,120
a for sure a sure thing. 
But yeah, the Lawsons definitely

1772
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,080
held on to their dynamics, 
dynastic stability for longer 

1773
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:01,400
than the towers. 
But like, they still ended up 

1774
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,520
without heirs here apparently, 
or very few heirs because again,

1775
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,760
you know, if you have a lady 
inheriting, that already implies

1776
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,240
that there's a dearth of men. 
You know, obviously there's 

1777
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:10,960
something wrong. 
Obviously, in our mind, you 

1778
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,440
know, men and women should be 
equal in terms of ruling. 

1779
01:33:13,440 --> 01:33:14,720
But that's not how it works in 
Westeros. 

1780
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:19,360
So it does. 
There is something you can imply

1781
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:23,160
whenever a woman inherits that 
there were no men or something 

1782
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:26,960
else happened. 
So I do love Nina's theory here 

1783
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:31,040
that the idea is that Donnell 
was maybe doing some delving 

1784
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:34,000
into the dark arts to try to get
pregnant, and this would 

1785
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:38,120
establish her as another of the 
Witch Queen archetypes, all of 

1786
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:39,320
whom existed Herrenhal pretty 
much. 

1787
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:42,520
Obviously Vicenia is not 
Herrenhal, but she's, we don't 

1788
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,000
really call Vicenia a witch 
queen. 

1789
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:51,320
She's just more of a dragon 
queen with a a a slice of magic 

1790
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:54,160
may be thrown in, you know? 
Whereas the the magic stuff is a

1791
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:58,640
lot more explicit with someone 
like Alice Rivers or Danielle 

1792
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:01,440
Austin. 
Reyna has a little of those 

1793
01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:02,640
vibes too. 
She doesn't really have the 

1794
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:05,720
magic but she's a dragon queen, 
dragon Lord, dragon lady and 

1795
01:34:05,720 --> 01:34:11,160
lived in Harrenhal and had some 
association so definitely 

1796
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:15,640
interesting to think about. 
That and the whole Gil Austin 

1797
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:21,720
Magor thing. 
By the way, Magor looked like he

1798
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:26,720
was dying after his trial by 7, 
and it was only after Visenya 

1799
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:29,960
came with Tiana, the tower. 
I brought Tien of the tower in 

1800
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:33,320
that Megor's health turned 
positively all of a sudden. 

1801
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:35,600
I always, it's always been a 
little suspicious there too, 

1802
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:40,320
that magic was involved. 
So yes, yes, all these things 

1803
01:34:40,320 --> 01:34:44,880
are wrapped together. 
A huge open question for us in 

1804
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:48,640
general, but also for this 
episode is the third Black Fire 

1805
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,360
Rebellion. 
It was glossed over in the 

1806
01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:53,000
histories for what we think are 
pretty obvious reasons. 

1807
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:57,280
George wanted to not commit. 
He wanted to think about it 

1808
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,320
later. 
It's too important for him to 

1809
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:01,440
just toss a few ideas out and 
then be stuck on that. 

1810
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:03,240
He doesn't want to, He doesn't 
want to commit to anything. 

1811
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:06,440
So in the history as it's 
presented as we all know that 

1812
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:09,080
story, whatever he says, we all 
know that story. 

1813
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:13,360
We pretty much never do. 
But it's a clue that George 

1814
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,680
wants to not commit. 
He wants to think about it more 

1815
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:17,480
later, which is fine. 
You know, we, we got to give him

1816
01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:19,160
some some room for that from 
time to time. 

1817
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:20,800
It would be a problem if he did 
that too often. 

1818
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:23,280
But it's cool here, even though 
we really want to know what 

1819
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,160
happened in the third Black Fire
rebellion, but it really relates

1820
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:28,920
to Lady Danielle. 
This is definitely Lady Danielle

1821
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,960
in charge in this era still 
because the third Black Fire 

1822
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:33,480
building happened during the 
reign of King Aries. 

1823
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:36,320
And we know she was still in 
charge until the reign of King 

1824
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:37,480
Makar. 
Who would be next? 

1825
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:41,120
So maybe she did actually join 
the rebels in the third. 

1826
01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:44,680
Maybe this is part of what put 
her on a slippery slope, was 

1827
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,640
fighting for the wrong side 
because in this case it was a 

1828
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:49,600
close run thing. 
The third Black Fire building 

1829
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:51,080
was almost won by the black 
fires. 

1830
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:53,960
It's hard to imagine someone 
signing up for a losing cause. 

1831
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:57,560
It's a lot easier to imagine 
someone signing up for either 

1832
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:00,200
side when both sides are pretty 
equally matched. 

1833
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:03,000
That's a real hard choice if 
your goal is I want to be on the

1834
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:05,880
winning side and it's hard to 
tell who's stronger. 

1835
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:10,280
What do you do? 
Well, you might pull a a butter 

1836
01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:15,160
well or a a high tower or one of
these houses that in different 

1837
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,400
wars have supported both sides. 
That's what you might do. 

1838
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,120
And maybe that's on the table 
here as well for the Lofstons. 

1839
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:27,320
I'm not sure but this if they 
supported the rebels if or if 

1840
01:36:27,320 --> 01:36:29,880
they supported the black fires 
here, the Lostons during the 

1841
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:33,560
third black fire rebellion, that
would really help us explain why

1842
01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:36,000
they were on shaky ground with 
Makar later. 

1843
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,360
That would be part of the many 
reasons why this house needs to 

1844
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:42,240
go. 
We don't need that reason, but 

1845
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:44,720
it but it would certainly go a 
long way towards establishing 

1846
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:47,400
that. 
And since they're always heels, 

1847
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:51,520
since they seem to always be bad
guys, it's, there's, that's a 

1848
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:54,800
strike against them, maybe 
fighting for the loyalists here,

1849
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:58,080
you know, the team, the, the 
guys that just started a war 

1850
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:00,960
because they didn't like Dorn 
and didn't like maesters and, 

1851
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:04,120
and, and, and the king having a 
potbelly. 

1852
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:09,320
You know, I, I, I find the black
fires fascinating, but I'm very 

1853
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,880
much on the red side here in 
terms of who was in the right 

1854
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,000
about that war. 
In the beginning of this 

1855
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:19,080
episode, I mentioned something 
about Jamie and how when he gets

1856
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:21,760
news about some of the worst 
people he's ever heard of and 

1857
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:24,680
what they're up to, he thinks of
of Danielle Lostin. 

1858
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:28,040
So here, here we go with that. 
He's thinking of Gregor and 

1859
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:31,440
Vargo. 
What Gregor when Gregor made 

1860
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:35,040
Vargo eat people, including 
himself, and when Gregor made 

1861
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:38,480
other people eat parts of Vargo.
Forced cannibalism, right? 

1862
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:41,760
Disgusting. 
He he hears about this and it 

1863
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:45,000
triggers a memory of mad 
Danielle Lostin quote. 

1864
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:50,240
Father, Jamie thought, your dogs
have both gone mad. 

1865
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:54,240
He found himself remembering 
tales he had first heard as a 

1866
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:59,960
child at Casterly Rock of Mad 
Lady Loston, who bathed in tubs 

1867
01:37:59,960 --> 01:38:03,640
of blood and presided over 
feasts of human flesh within 

1868
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:07,200
these very walls. 
Somehow, revenge had lost its 

1869
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:09,760
savour. 
Take this and throw it in the 

1870
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:13,240
lake. 
Jamie tossed Hoat's head to Peck

1871
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,200
and turned to address the 
Garrison. 

1872
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:18,640
So there's the cannibalism yeah 
that we mentioned in the 

1873
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:20,720
beginning that Herron Hall is 
associated with cannibalism. 

1874
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:24,160
Now we well, there's a specific 
example, right, But that's a a 

1875
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:26,440
current example that happens 
during the series Hannibal 

1876
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,520
Hannibal Herron Hall already had
the reputation prior to this. 

1877
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:32,960
But you know, good, good way to 
bring it all back and to re 

1878
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:34,400
establish that reputation, 
right? 

1879
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:39,040
Yikes. 
A fun question would be not fun,

1880
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,880
but fun in quotes. 
Is these so-called baths of 

1881
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:48,600
blood that that that Lady lost 
and had, was this the same tub 

1882
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:51,200
that Jamie and Brienne were in? 
Is this the same place these 

1883
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:53,960
so-called baths were taking 
place while they're talking 

1884
01:38:53,960 --> 01:38:55,800
about it? 
Are they in the very bath where 

1885
01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:58,320
it happened? 
Is it possible? 

1886
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:00,320
It's very possible, very 
possible. 

1887
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:02,680
Now, bathing in blood has a lot 
of connotations. 

1888
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,760
There's it's, it's not simply 
straightforward as oh, a woman's

1889
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:09,400
trying to recover her age, but 
that is one of the reasons it 

1890
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,080
could be it. 
San Rixian, by the way, we got 

1891
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:14,400
some art from her here, The 
great Sanrixian, with some 

1892
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:17,600
bathing in blood. 
Specifically bathing in blood 

1893
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,160
art for Lady Donnell. 
Shout out to Sanrixian. 

1894
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:21,880
It could be exactly what it 
sounds like. 

1895
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:23,280
In other words, yes, it actually
could be. 

1896
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,120
She bathed in blood to preserve 
her youth. 

1897
01:39:26,120 --> 01:39:30,640
A couple of questions though. 
Whether it works is a separate 

1898
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:31,840
question to whether or not it's 
magical. 

1899
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,920
If it's magical, I'm guessing it
works, but it probably isn't. 

1900
01:39:35,440 --> 01:39:38,160
Although maybe other things she 
does are magical and those might

1901
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:39,640
work. 
I'm not so sure about this one. 

1902
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:42,240
Several characters have said to 
bathe in blood. 

1903
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:44,080
Whether they actually did or 
not, I'm not sure. 

1904
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:46,720
Of all of them, she might be the
most likely to have actually 

1905
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:49,240
done it. 
Sierra Sea Star has said to have

1906
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:50,960
bathe in blood. 
Daenerys has said to have bathe 

1907
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:52,560
in blood. 
We know Daenerys didn't. 

1908
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:56,960
We've seen her chapters. 
She's gotten really bloody. 

1909
01:39:57,120 --> 01:39:59,120
You know, maybe certain things 
she's done that could say she 

1910
01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:01,560
was. 
We could symbolically say that, 

1911
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:04,360
but not literally. 
She'd not take a bath in a tub 

1912
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:06,000
filled with blood. 
She definitely didn't do that. 

1913
01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:12,440
And I kind of doubt CRC started 
either, but maybe I'm also 

1914
01:40:12,440 --> 01:40:15,520
sketch skeptical here, but 
definitely she's at the top of 

1915
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:17,800
the list of anyone I've heard of
doing this that might actually 

1916
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:21,720
have done so. 
Our common mundane explanation, 

1917
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:23,320
we like to do that. 
We like to have the most 

1918
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:25,200
supernatural explanation we can 
think of, which would be that 

1919
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:28,760
hey, it actually worked. 
Bathing in blood restored her 

1920
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:30,560
youth or kept her young, Maybe 
it did. 

1921
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,400
The most mundane explanation has
nothing to do with magic or 

1922
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:37,880
intent even is that she was just
dying her hair and it looks 

1923
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:40,840
bloody and it looks like her 
head like gets on her skin from 

1924
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:42,560
a distance. 
Some servant or multiple 

1925
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,440
servants see that and all the 
the red is dripping from her 

1926
01:40:45,440 --> 01:40:47,720
head. 
It looks like she's bathed in 

1927
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:49,640
blood. 
She might have dipped her head 

1928
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,800
in it or something. 
You know and like who, what is 

1929
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:55,000
it? 
The hair dye process look to an 

1930
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:59,680
ignorant commoner of you know, 
who's the employee at Harrenhal 

1931
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:06,400
that is not given an education 
and has Lady Donnell as her Lord

1932
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:10,400
or lady rather, and who given 
all the other stuff the Lostons 

1933
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:14,240
are associated with, it's it's 
less of a jump to something like

1934
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,760
this. 
So yeah, maybe that was all 

1935
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,560
there is to it, just regular old
hair dye. 

1936
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:22,600
And of course no hair dye exists
in the settings. 

1937
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:24,600
Sansa has dyed her hair and 
other people have dyed their 

1938
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,680
hairs. 
It's it's fairly common in fact,

1939
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,960
but not amongst peasants. 
That's very expensive. 

1940
01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:33,320
Presumably it's not like today 
where you can get hair dye for, 

1941
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:37,160
you know, a couple like 30 bucks
or something, you know, anyway 

1942
01:41:37,480 --> 01:41:39,280
or more, but not some huge 
amount. 

1943
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:42,360
Now we're told she quote turn to
the black arts. 

1944
01:41:42,480 --> 01:41:46,880
That's a direct quote and that 
their line ended in quote chaos 

1945
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,040
and madness. 
What does that mean? 

1946
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:54,480
The madness part were like, OK, 
well, Paranol has that effect on

1947
01:41:54,480 --> 01:41:58,960
some people. 
If she was, maybe she got some 

1948
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,280
disease and it got in her brain 
and made her mad. 

1949
01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:03,680
But who's the mad person here? 
What's the chaos like? 

1950
01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:05,520
This is very vague, very 
interesting. 

1951
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,160
But yeah, it's hard to, like, 
sink your teeth into it like a 

1952
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:11,600
vampire, right? 
Was it one event? 

1953
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,240
Was it like one big, like, 
that's the last, she can't be 

1954
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:17,040
doing that? 
Or was it like a lot of little 

1955
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,520
things that finally they had 
enough of it, like the straw 

1956
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:23,400
that broke the camel's back? 
And again, close to King's 

1957
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:25,400
Landing. 
That's the problem here for her.

1958
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:28,080
If he's doing all these things 
like way off in the Dread Fort 

1959
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,000
or way off in the Iron Islands, 
you might get away with it. 

1960
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,520
You know, you might. 
Makar might not hear about it. 

1961
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:37,360
But this is close to the castle.
And Makar is a guy that is a 

1962
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:41,560
hands on kind of dude. 
Remember that Makar died putting

1963
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:46,440
down the peak rebellion. 
So if Donnell was brought down 

1964
01:42:46,440 --> 01:42:50,000
under his reign, he probably led
the army himself. 

1965
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:53,080
If he's going to go all the way 
to the South to fight the peaks,

1966
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:56,120
he's probably going to go to 
Harrenhal, which is way closer. 

1967
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:02,000
And Nina adds, I tend to think 
Makar's reign was in part about 

1968
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:06,280
reversing the executive inaction
and failure of feudal protection

1969
01:43:06,280 --> 01:43:08,640
that had defined the reign of 
Aries the First, who was the 

1970
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:10,760
predecessor, right? 
Aries the First was a bookish 

1971
01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:13,360
king that just told everyone 
else to just handle things for 

1972
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,680
him, right? 
So Makar was very different than

1973
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:18,080
that. 
He was much more hands on. 

1974
01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:19,400
So this is a very good point 
here. 

1975
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:25,800
Whether this was the factor for 
this case, for the lost in 

1976
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:29,320
scenario is up in the air. 
But I definitely agree with Nina

1977
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:34,000
that in general, Makar ruled 
very differently, in part 

1978
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,120
because that's just who he is, 
but also in part because of who 

1979
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:38,880
his brother was, which was the 
most relaxed, like hands off 

1980
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:40,640
King we may have had of all 
time. 

1981
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:44,920
I mean, this is the peaks. 
We also Dagon Greyjoy during 

1982
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:48,040
that era, right? 
Dagon Greyjoy ran rampant for a 

1983
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:51,400
while under King Aries and 
Lostons. 

1984
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:53,560
Like whatever they were doing, 
whatever she was getting away 

1985
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:55,240
with, she got away with it for a
little while. 

1986
01:43:55,640 --> 01:44:00,600
So this might be Makar saying, 
look, you can't do get away with

1987
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,680
this sort of thing so close to 
me, you know, like I I'm not 

1988
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:06,720
going to turn a blind eye to 
much, especially not something 

1989
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:08,400
that's happening right under my 
nose like this. 

1990
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:12,960
The problem is scapegoating 
magic. 

1991
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:15,840
I don't know that that's enough 
of an answer. 

1992
01:44:16,360 --> 01:44:18,400
Like, yeah, OK, that she turned 
to the dark arts. 

1993
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:22,080
She's trying to conceive a child
through magic that could get 

1994
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:23,560
some attention and bring people 
down. 

1995
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:27,520
But Makar employed Bloodraven as
his hand. 

1996
01:44:28,840 --> 01:44:30,680
Bloodraven had a reputation from
sorcery. 

1997
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:35,560
Now, what sorcery was Bloodraven
actually employing in this era? 

1998
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:37,400
I don't know. 
Definitely some, though. 

1999
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:41,280
We see him do glamours and he 
had the reputation for it too. 

2000
01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:44,400
So what What the public believed
about Blood Raven versus what's 

2001
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:46,640
actually true is there's got to 
be some disconnect. 

2002
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:49,720
But there's some level of truth 
in the belief that Blood Raven 

2003
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:52,680
was using magic. 
That reputation, Makar would be 

2004
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:56,360
aware of. 
Makar wasn't a big fan of Blood 

2005
01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:00,720
Raven, probably, but kept him on
because maybe because of 

2006
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:04,880
political necessity, maybe 
because he grudgingly respected 

2007
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:06,840
how effective he was. 
And if he's going to be a hand 

2008
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:09,200
on king, hands on king, then 
blood Raven's going to be really

2009
01:45:09,200 --> 01:45:13,000
helpful for that. 
But still employing a guy who's 

2010
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:17,680
a known sorcerer makes it 
difficult to say that he went 

2011
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:21,520
after Lady Donnell because of 
sorcery, right? 

2012
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,280
That just doesn't that's 
something about that doesn't 

2013
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:27,200
feel right. 
She are a sea star again, also 

2014
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:28,680
had a reputation for bathing in 
blood. 

2015
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:31,880
She lived at court at the same 
time as all this, like, so how 

2016
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:36,200
is Danielle going to be singled 
out for this when people at 

2017
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:39,080
court are maybe doing the same 
things, right, Even closer to 

2018
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,800
Makar? 
So I got to think there's more 

2019
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:44,720
to it. 
Maybe too many infractions, too 

2020
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:49,480
much violence, too many other 
things, like something that 

2021
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:53,880
affects other people. 
If you're only doing things that

2022
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:57,560
affect you, even if they give 
you a bad reputation, maybe 

2023
01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:00,720
that's more acceptable. 
But it's these stories that 

2024
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:05,520
Jamie and others tell later that
might be our clue, which are 

2025
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:09,520
stories of kidnapping children, 
which might have been actual 

2026
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:11,200
kidnappings and not just 
stories. 

2027
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:13,240
That's a much more serious 
crime. 

2028
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:16,480
Sure, there's a lot of cynicism,
and we should be right to be 

2029
01:46:16,480 --> 01:46:21,320
cynical about Westerosi ladies 
and Lords and justice for 

2030
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:24,640
peasants, right? 
A lot of times you might, you 

2031
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,600
might be like, come on, Aziz, 
this lady rounds up a few 

2032
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:29,040
peasants and does awful things 
to them. 

2033
01:46:29,280 --> 01:46:31,760
She could get away with that. 
Yeah, she could. 

2034
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:32,920
She could. 
She might. 

2035
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:35,440
But what if she went a little 
too far and it's people started 

2036
01:46:35,440 --> 01:46:37,280
talk about it a lot? 
She's a woman. 

2037
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:41,120
So like the patriarchal society,
they might the the stories might

2038
01:46:41,120 --> 01:46:44,520
triple or quadruple because of 
who it's coming from. 

2039
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:47,640
And again, the proximity 
argument is, is huge here. 

2040
01:46:48,880 --> 01:46:52,000
So whether Lady Danielle 
deserved her reputation or not, 

2041
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:54,960
or maybe she deserved something 
like it, it was probably 

2042
01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:59,640
exaggerated, even if there was a
lot of truth to it, because it's

2043
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:01,600
such a scandalous thing. 
It's such a the kind of thing 

2044
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:03,360
people would talk about. 
And if people are going to talk 

2045
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:04,760
about it, it's going to get 
exaggerated. 

2046
01:47:04,760 --> 01:47:06,600
Rumor always works that way, 
right? 

2047
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:10,280
And if we're comparing it to 
something like, well, where 

2048
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:13,240
Jamie comes from, if we're 
coming it to Casterly Rock, you 

2049
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:16,520
can keep information somewhat 
tied down in Casterly Rock. 

2050
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:19,720
It's a mountain. 
There's ways in and out that can

2051
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:22,520
be guarded. 
Harrenhal's this giant ruinous 

2052
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:26,800
castle with Arya got out with 
one fake silver coin. 

2053
01:47:27,240 --> 01:47:29,640
She drops it on the ground. 
The guard goes to pick it up. 

2054
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:31,200
She cuts his throat. 
She got out right? 

2055
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:33,480
Couple of kids escaped from 
Harrenhal. 

2056
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:35,920
It's not the same as Gasterly 
Rock. 

2057
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:39,120
The scenario is very different. 
So point being, lots of 

2058
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:43,080
different stories can leak out 
of Harrenhal in ways that other 

2059
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:45,480
Lords might be able to control 
information more tightly. 

2060
01:47:46,160 --> 01:47:49,240
The both the proximity to cast 
the castle King's Landing and 

2061
01:47:49,240 --> 01:47:53,520
the nature of the size of the 
castle and its its leakiness is 

2062
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:55,480
both work against keeping 
secrets there. 

2063
01:47:56,400 --> 01:48:00,400
So I can imagine a scenario 
where Makar hears complaints 

2064
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:04,000
about Lady Donnell on a regular 
basis or semi regular basis and 

2065
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:06,040
eventually he just gets fed up 
like, OK, that's enough. 

2066
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:08,760
I've had enough hearing about 
this woman, we're going to go 

2067
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,480
take her down. 
And there may have been other 

2068
01:48:12,480 --> 01:48:14,800
reasons like she doesn't have a 
descendant or she doesn't, she 

2069
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:18,040
doesn't have children anyway. 
So like it's going to happen. 

2070
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:20,120
We need to replace her anyway. 
This castle is going to go 

2071
01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:23,800
become empty regardless. 
He might go months without 

2072
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,200
hearing someone mention the 
Bolton's or the Ironborn. 

2073
01:48:26,240 --> 01:48:29,280
And even if he did hear about 
them, he might be like delegate,

2074
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:30,600
tell someone else to take care 
of that. 

2075
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:32,920
Let the Greyjoys handle that, 
let the Starks handle that. 

2076
01:48:32,920 --> 01:48:34,840
Like even for him, that might be
too far away. 

2077
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:37,160
Interestingly, no one else has 
ever had the name Donnell that 

2078
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,120
we know of. 
There have been plenty of other,

2079
01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:43,240
you know, Manfreds and Lucas's, 
but Danielle is unique as far as

2080
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:44,480
we know. 
There are some similar ones, 

2081
01:48:44,480 --> 01:48:48,560
like there's plenty of Dan. 
This like Daenerys, Nina 

2082
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:51,880
suggests maybe she was even 
called Danny as a nickname. 

2083
01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:55,520
Yeah, absolutely. 
Could be very, very possible. 

2084
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:58,560
Magell is, you know, there's the
ELL suffix, is there? 

2085
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:01,080
Or Dan? 
Well, which is you get the L 

2086
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:03,560
sound and the Dan. 
So there's some similar names, 

2087
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,320
but yeah, no actual other 
Donnells anywhere in Westeros, 

2088
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,680
at least yet. 
Some of you may be aware, maybe 

2089
01:49:09,680 --> 01:49:12,080
because you've heard of her or 
you've heard this mentioned 

2090
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:17,080
before on our show or elsewhere,
that Elizabeth Bathory is the 

2091
01:49:18,440 --> 01:49:21,440
inspiration for Lady Janelle. 
Elizabeth Bathory was a 

2092
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:27,920
Hungarian noble in the 16th, 
17th centuries who was accused 

2093
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:34,520
and condemned for killing 
something like 600 peasants, 

2094
01:49:34,880 --> 01:49:39,560
torturing, bathing in blood. 
Awful stuff, really horrible. 

2095
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:44,640
However, there's a serious 
scholarly effort to consider 

2096
01:49:44,640 --> 01:49:47,280
whether or not this is actually 
fact. 

2097
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:50,520
She. 
I've read this in two different 

2098
01:49:50,520 --> 01:49:51,760
ways. 
Either she owed the king a lot 

2099
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:53,040
of money, or the king owed her a
lot of money. 

2100
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:54,200
I think the other one makes more
sense. 

2101
01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:56,080
If she owed the king a lot of 
money, then why would they kill 

2102
01:49:56,080 --> 01:49:56,920
her? 
They would want to get that 

2103
01:49:56,920 --> 01:50:00,680
money. 
But there's a very strong chance

2104
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:04,840
that this was a drummed up story
to take her land, in part 

2105
01:50:04,840 --> 01:50:07,240
because yes, she may have the 
king may have owed her money and

2106
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,280
the king is the one who ordered 
this investigation right after 

2107
01:50:10,280 --> 01:50:13,280
her husband died. 
So supposedly she killed 600 

2108
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:15,720
people, yet no one heard 
anything about it until after 

2109
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:17,520
her husband died is very 
suspicious. 

2110
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:19,560
The the counter arguments are 
very strong here. 

2111
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:22,760
But we're not here to settle 
whether Elizabeth Bathory is 

2112
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:24,240
guilty or not. 
That's not important to us. 

2113
01:50:24,240 --> 01:50:26,560
But what's important to us is 
some of these elements are 

2114
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:28,920
possible here. 
I think it's more likely Matt 

2115
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:32,040
Donnell really did do blood 
magic and some of these other 

2116
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:34,160
stuff 'cause that's just more 
fun for the story to have some 

2117
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:36,560
of these supernatural elements. 
George likes to turn it up to 

2118
01:50:36,560 --> 01:50:39,080
11. 
But there's room for both. 

2119
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:42,760
There's room for the truth to be
only a Colonel and the real 

2120
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:47,840
story to be, or the truth to be 
a Colonel and the rumor to be a 

2121
01:50:48,040 --> 01:50:50,080
massively exaggerated version of
this. 

2122
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:53,040
Like maybe she was actually mad 
again. 

2123
01:50:53,040 --> 01:50:58,160
The mad story started before the
magic stories, and one may have 

2124
01:50:58,160 --> 01:50:59,320
been true and the other may not 
have been. 

2125
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,880
Maybe she really did use magic 
but wasn't mad. 

2126
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:04,160
Maybe she didn't use magic but 
was mad. 

2127
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:07,200
Maybe she was both. 
I prefer kind of both. 

2128
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:09,600
That's maybe the most fun to 
have someone that's both really 

2129
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:13,800
magical and kind of mad, because
all sorts of weird stuff happen 

2130
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,720
when you have skill with magic 
and you're kind of crazy. 

2131
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:18,920
That's just, hey, you can have a
lot of fun with that as a 

2132
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:22,440
storyteller. 
Of course, George's call, 

2133
01:51:22,440 --> 01:51:25,080
obviously, we're just going with
what we're picking up, what he's

2134
01:51:25,080 --> 01:51:28,520
put down so far, but he's got 
more to to put down and at which

2135
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:30,120
point we'll pick that back up. 
We. 

2136
01:51:30,120 --> 01:51:32,040
So anyway, it's very interesting
to consider that some of the 

2137
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:34,320
stories about Mad Dinell might 
not be true or just exaggerated,

2138
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:36,720
just like the inspiration for 
her. 

2139
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:40,560
The stuff is also on the table 
that maybe Elizabeth Bathory 

2140
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:43,000
didn't do any of that stuff. 
This may have just been the high

2141
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,800
Lords playing their Game of 
Thrones by telling stories about

2142
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:49,280
each other. 
We have a lot of bonus episodes 

2143
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:52,160
out there. 
If you are wanting to catch our 

2144
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:54,480
bonus episodes, sign up for our 
Patreon. 

2145
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:58,760
We are able to do kind of off 
the beaten path episodes like 

2146
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:00,760
this thanks to you all. 
If if it weren't for you all, 

2147
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:04,560
we'd either have to do a lot 
more mainstream topics, which we

2148
01:52:04,560 --> 01:52:07,040
do plenty of as well, or we 
wouldn't just be doing this at 

2149
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:08,200
all. 
Although, or maybe we just 

2150
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:09,960
wouldn't be able to make a 
living out of this and we just 

2151
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:12,080
wouldn't be here at all. 
So you all are what makes this 

2152
01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:14,000
possible and we try to give back
to you. 

2153
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:17,000
When you sign up to be a patron,
you can sign up at 

2154
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:21,600
patreon.com/history of Westeros 
and get a lot of our bonus 

2155
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:22,960
episode. 
Well, all of our bonus episodes.

2156
01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:26,200
I don't know how many we have. 
It's a lot It's it's in the 

2157
01:52:26,200 --> 01:52:29,880
double digits and we've got 
topics like the red Kraken, 

2158
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:35,800
follow up to the red Kraken. 
We've got some compilations from

2159
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:38,320
our Valaritis where you can 
listen to all the Aria chapters 

2160
01:52:38,320 --> 01:52:41,480
together or all the John 
chapters together or all the 

2161
01:52:41,480 --> 01:52:44,040
Danny chapters and quite a few 
other things. 

2162
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:49,240
Shout outs your name on our 
website, and of course, just the

2163
01:52:49,240 --> 01:52:51,920
satisfaction of supporting 
something that you engage in. 

2164
01:52:51,920 --> 01:52:55,200
I am a patron of all the shows 
that I listen to regularly as 

2165
01:52:55,200 --> 01:52:59,160
well. 
So hmm, I'm not just a patron, I

2166
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:03,440
am a patron subscriber. 
Let's talk about the last O 

2167
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:07,160
Loston, because there is a 
reason to believe there was one 

2168
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:10,080
more Loston after Donnell. 
Maybe not a Lord Loston, but 

2169
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:12,520
probably a Lord Loston. 
But whether they actually held 

2170
01:53:12,520 --> 01:53:14,040
the castle is also up in the 
air. 

2171
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:19,120
The reason is from that very 
first quote from Gendry that we 

2172
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:23,080
read at the beginning, the first
mention he said that Ben 

2173
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:29,960
Blackthumb was a blacksmith to 
the the last Lord Lofston, not 

2174
01:53:29,960 --> 01:53:35,360
Lady Lord. 
Very possible that Gendry 

2175
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:41,040
assumed man that Ben Blackthumb 
said the last Lofston and he 

2176
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:44,520
just thought that was a Lord. 
Cause odds are it is going to be

2177
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:46,600
a Lord. 
Most of the rulers of castles 

2178
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:49,480
are men so he doesn't if a 
gender isn't specified. 

2179
01:53:49,480 --> 01:53:51,640
Gendry wouldn't. 
It wouldn't be the dumbest thing

2180
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,280
ever for him to assume a man. 
It would be a mistake. 

2181
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,920
But you know, unreliable 
narrator. 

2182
01:53:56,920 --> 01:53:58,240
That's going to happen sometimes
right? 

2183
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:03,400
It's also possible that 
Danielle's husband was styled 

2184
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:06,600
Lord lost in and he was allowed 
to run the castle for a little 

2185
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,040
while before it all fell apart 
after her. 

2186
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:11,200
Maybe direct Lannister does 
that. 

2187
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:18,320
Braun does that, and maybe 
Donnell did have a son who tried

2188
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:21,040
to claim Harrenhal later but was
deposed by Makar. 

2189
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:24,400
And of course it's it's also 
possibly just a mistake by 

2190
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:26,480
George. 
But I think I don't like calling

2191
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:29,680
something a mistake unless we 
just can't reconcile it and we 

2192
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:34,880
can Gendry just messing up is is
a very rational, simple and 

2193
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:39,320
reasonable explanation. 
But so is there being one more 

2194
01:54:39,320 --> 01:54:43,680
lost in afterwards that that had
to be haunted down and killed. 

2195
01:54:43,680 --> 01:54:47,040
Maybe he wasn't at Harrenhal, 
someone who tried to start a 

2196
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:50,280
rebellion to reclaim his title. 
Anyway, lots of possibilities 

2197
01:54:50,280 --> 01:54:51,800
there. 
Maybe we'll find out. 

2198
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:54,400
Here's another little clue 
though. 

2199
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:59,080
Let's get back to our friend Sir
Illifer from our one of our 

2200
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:03,960
favorite PO VS Brienne quote. 
Sir Illifer crooked a Bony 

2201
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:07,920
finger at her shield. 
Though it's paint was cracked 

2202
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:11,800
and peeling, the device it bore 
showed plain. 

2203
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:17,800
A black bat on a field divided 
bend wise silver and gold. 

2204
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:22,320
You bear a liar's shield to 
which you have no right. 

2205
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:26,960
My grandfather's grandfather 
helped kill the last of Lofton. 

2206
01:55:27,440 --> 01:55:32,440
Nonsense has dared to show that 
Bat Black is the deeds of them 

2207
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:35,440
that bore it. 
He then goes on to name Lord 

2208
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:38,800
Lucas and Manfred of the Black 
Hood and accuses her of cloaking

2209
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:41,760
herself in shame because she's 
guilty of killing Renly. 

2210
01:55:41,760 --> 01:55:42,880
So there's two things going on 
here. 

2211
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:46,400
One, she he's upset to see her 
wearing a sigil that doesn't 

2212
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:48,880
belong to her. 
He's upset because of what sigil

2213
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:52,920
that is because it's such a dark
sigil and he recognizes her as 

2214
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:54,400
the one that's accused of 
killing Renly. 

2215
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:57,440
And yeah, so he he pulls his 
dagger, but she talks her way 

2216
01:55:57,440 --> 01:55:58,640
out of it. 
She swears an oath. 

2217
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:00,520
It's it's a very it's a great 
scene. 

2218
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,240
They're like, oh, great, great 
oath there brew. 

2219
01:56:03,240 --> 01:56:05,280
That's that's a really good 
swearing. 

2220
01:56:06,040 --> 01:56:08,640
Well, if the if she's lying, the
gods will sort her out. 

2221
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:12,600
Our work is done here. 
I I love that, but Sir Ilifer is

2222
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:16,360
probably lying or exaggerating, 
which we already knew that he 

2223
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:20,120
both of these guys, Creighton 
and Ilifer are teller of tall 

2224
01:56:20,120 --> 01:56:21,960
tales. 
That's their whole shtick. 

2225
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:24,960
Like it's half the reason we see
them. 

2226
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:27,000
You know, they're part of the, 
the background of the hedge 

2227
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:29,680
night story, the questing night.
They're they're, they're like a 

2228
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:33,080
traditional element here from 
this type of story that George 

2229
01:56:33,080 --> 01:56:37,240
is adapting within A song of ice
and fire, Brienne's quest. 

2230
01:56:37,720 --> 01:56:42,920
So well the reason I'm pretty 
sure he's lying or exaggerating 

2231
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,520
is he says his grandfather's 
grandfather helped kill the last

2232
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:49,920
of Loston Illa first. 
Probably like 50 if not 60 which

2233
01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:52,520
is when the Lostons fell. 
How is his grandfather's 

2234
01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:56,160
grandfather alive 60 years ago 
when he when he was born? 

2235
01:56:56,160 --> 01:56:58,720
Like I don't think so. 
I mean does his was his 

2236
01:56:58,720 --> 01:57:01,200
grandfather's grandfather his 
grandfather and his keep having?

2237
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:04,480
Did all his grandfathers have 
children at age 16 or something?

2238
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:06,720
Even that probably doesn't make 
it work anyway. 

2239
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:10,200
It doesn't. 
So he's lying about his 

2240
01:57:10,200 --> 01:57:13,800
involvement. 
But given his age, he absolutely

2241
01:57:13,800 --> 01:57:16,760
was around for those stories 
when it was really happening. 

2242
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:20,360
He would have been a young man, 
or right after it happened, he 

2243
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:22,640
would have been a young man. 
He would have grown up right 

2244
01:57:22,640 --> 01:57:27,000
after the fall of Loston. 
It would have been a big deal 

2245
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:29,240
for storytelling. 
Like, people still tell stories 

2246
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:32,040
about Madden Nell. 
Now imagine right after her 

2247
01:57:32,040 --> 01:57:34,880
fall, those stories would have 
been even more popular, even 

2248
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:37,040
more common. 
She would have been one of the 

2249
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:40,200
most scandalous topics to speak 
on probably in the Riverlands, 

2250
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,600
if not a lot of places. 
What an outstanding character, 

2251
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:46,160
even with even in world like to 
us she's outstanding, but in 

2252
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:48,360
world she would really stand out
quite a lot too. 

2253
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:51,800
He would have heard those tales 
all about the cook pots and her 

2254
01:57:52,240 --> 01:57:55,520
bats, kidnapping children and 
the bathing and all that. 

2255
01:57:55,520 --> 01:57:59,160
Fresh story too, and one that 
happened not far from where this

2256
01:57:59,160 --> 01:58:01,320
quote occurs. 
They're on the road to 

2257
01:58:01,320 --> 01:58:05,120
Duskindale in this chapter and 
again, and Duskindale's just up 

2258
01:58:05,120 --> 01:58:06,960
the coast. 
So Harrenhal still, even though 

2259
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:08,600
they've left King's Landing, 
they're still only about two 

2260
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:11,400
weeks ride from King's Landing 
or they're 2 two weeks ride from

2261
01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:14,280
Harrenhal rather from from the 
road to Duskindale. 1 theory I 

2262
01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:18,400
like is that King Makar himself 
or maybe he sent Blood Raven 

2263
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:22,840
maybe or something like that, 
removed Donnell, either had her 

2264
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:25,560
killed or sent to the Silent 
Sisters and then installed 

2265
01:58:25,560 --> 01:58:28,360
another Lostin. 
And then this new Lostin was was

2266
01:58:28,360 --> 01:58:30,160
also terrible. 
So they removed him and just 

2267
01:58:30,160 --> 01:58:34,280
said no more Lostins. 
Maybe they ran out of lost him. 

2268
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:37,880
Maybe there's weren't any more. 
Again, very a lot of smaller 

2269
01:58:37,880 --> 01:58:39,400
possibilities here. 
We're cycling through our 

2270
01:58:39,400 --> 01:58:42,640
options and pretty good. 
Now we're told that their own 

2271
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:45,080
household nights turned on them.
The house house went turned on 

2272
01:58:45,080 --> 01:58:49,240
house lost him during this era. 
So in fact, they might be the 

2273
01:58:49,240 --> 01:58:52,640
initial impetus for this fall. 
Maybe they went to the king and 

2274
01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:56,240
we're like, look, I can tell you
because we're on the inside. 

2275
01:58:56,520 --> 01:59:00,640
We've seen some real bad stuff 
that they've done and yes, we're

2276
01:59:00,640 --> 01:59:03,600
loyal to our overlords, but we 
just had to say something. 

2277
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:06,080
She's killing kids, she's 
kidnapping babies, she's doing 

2278
01:59:06,440 --> 01:59:08,480
blood magic. 
I don't know what they said or 

2279
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:11,760
if they said it at all, but this
is, I like this theory because 

2280
01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:17,920
we know they got Harrenhal. 
So the way it tends to work is 

2281
01:59:18,760 --> 01:59:22,880
the people that do the most work
or do the pivotal thing or who 

2282
01:59:22,880 --> 01:59:28,160
turn first, like the river Lords
did for for Aegon the Conqueror,

2283
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:29,720
which river Lord got the biggest
reward? 

2284
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:33,560
The first river Lord to turn to 
Aegon, which was Edmund Tully. 

2285
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:38,360
So if house went was the first 
to turn on the Lostons and side 

2286
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:41,840
with the king, it would 
absolutely fit that they got the

2287
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:44,400
biggest reward, which well, they
did get the biggest reward. 

2288
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:46,480
So we're we kind of have to work
our way backwards to say, well, 

2289
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:48,040
why did House went get such a 
big reward? 

2290
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:50,720
Probably because they were 
really crucial in overthrowing 

2291
01:59:50,720 --> 01:59:53,960
the Lostons or did something 
really important or something 

2292
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:55,680
that made a big difference. 
Right. 

2293
01:59:56,200 --> 02:00:00,440
And of course the bats still 
live on with House Went, right? 

2294
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:05,880
The bats are their sigil too. 
But of course during the events 

2295
02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:09,520
of A Song of Ice and Fire, House
went loses Aaron all as well. 

2296
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:12,880
But there's definitely still 
bats there. 

2297
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:17,520
So the sigil is still accurate. 
There is a John Lawston in the 

2298
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:21,160
Golden Company, but. 
Y'all don't forget the nature 

2299
02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:22,240
and makeup of the Golden 
Company. 

2300
02:00:22,240 --> 02:00:24,720
People call themselves whatever.
There's also strongs in the 

2301
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:26,160
Golden Company. 
So that's kind of funny. 

2302
02:00:26,720 --> 02:00:30,600
What happens if the Golden 
Company wins Harrenhal and 

2303
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:32,800
they're like the Lost in John, 
John Lawson is like, hey, I get 

2304
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:34,160
this right. 
And the strongs are like, no, we

2305
02:00:34,160 --> 02:00:35,640
get this. 
We're the strongs we get here. 

2306
02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:37,320
I was like, no, but my house had
it more recently. 

2307
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:39,400
Yeah, but there's three of us 
and just one of you, John 

2308
02:00:39,400 --> 02:00:40,760
Lofton. 
So I don't know. 

2309
02:00:40,760 --> 02:00:43,040
That could be, that could be a 
little thing later. 

2310
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:47,480
The Lost in Legacy is our final 
section here. 

2311
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:51,400
As we said early on, they had it
for more than any other house, 

2312
02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:54,880
something like 80 years. 
And in that time it's hard to 

2313
02:00:54,880 --> 02:00:58,280
name a single positive, 
uplifting, or good thing they 

2314
02:00:58,280 --> 02:01:01,080
did. 
A single good person even, 

2315
02:01:01,200 --> 02:01:02,800
right? 
Not just a good deed, but like a

2316
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:06,320
single character that isn't bad,
or at least severely tarnished. 

2317
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:09,520
And the other side of the Ledger
is full of dark deeds, right? 

2318
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:11,840
The list is lengthy and varied 
again. 

2319
02:01:12,160 --> 02:01:16,120
Cannibalism, blood magic, 
incest, selling your own 

2320
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:21,360
children for favors, murder. 
Yeah, just the list is huge. 

2321
02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:23,280
I don't have to go through all 
of them again, but you, you get 

2322
02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:25,840
it. 
So 70 some years after losing 

2323
02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:29,000
Harrenhal, probably dying out 
because that John Lawson 

2324
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:31,120
probably isn't a descendant. 
But maybe he is. 

2325
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:34,320
Maybe he's an exception. 
Regardless, they are nowhere 

2326
02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:37,360
near forgotten. 
Their sigil still comes off like

2327
02:01:37,360 --> 02:01:41,280
a bad omen. 
I'm very amused by what happens 

2328
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:43,840
here with Jamie. 
George has Jamie make a small 

2329
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:47,080
but very on point, very thematic
mistake here, one that doesn't 

2330
02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:49,520
harm him in the slightest but is
very funny quote. 

2331
02:01:49,960 --> 02:01:54,320
He found an old shield in the 
Armory, battered and splintered,

2332
02:01:54,480 --> 02:01:58,800
the chipped paint still showing 
most of the great black bat of 

2333
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:02,320
House Lothston upon a field of 
silver and gold. 

2334
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:07,080
The Lothsten's held Harrenhal 
before the winds and had been a 

2335
02:02:07,080 --> 02:02:11,920
powerful family in their day, 
but they had died out ages ago, 

2336
02:02:12,240 --> 02:02:16,360
so no one was likely to object 
to him bearing their arms. 

2337
02:02:16,760 --> 02:02:22,160
He would be no one's cousin, no 
one's enemy, no one's sworn 

2338
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:27,280
sword in some, no one. 
Who does he think he is, Arya? 

2339
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:30,840
He is trying to be in the 
disguise. 

2340
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:32,240
So there's some Arya vibes 
there. 

2341
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:34,720
And this is Harrenhal, where 
Arya also was right. 

2342
02:02:35,000 --> 02:02:38,120
But of all the Shields he could 
claim, well, that's the 

2343
02:02:38,120 --> 02:02:42,560
authorial hand at work here. 
George is really making moves 

2344
02:02:42,560 --> 02:02:44,160
here. 
This is like third level 

2345
02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:47,560
subtlety at least. 
He specifically wanted an 

2346
02:02:47,560 --> 02:02:48,720
extinct house. 
Jamie did. 

2347
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:51,680
So no one would like call him 
out or whatever. 

2348
02:02:52,200 --> 02:02:54,360
And he is like a bat out of hell
leaving Harrenhal. 

2349
02:02:54,360 --> 02:02:56,120
So there's a little symbolism 
there too. 

2350
02:02:56,280 --> 02:02:58,320
But he's like, no, this will not
attract attention. 

2351
02:02:58,320 --> 02:03:00,720
I'll be a no one. 
It does the exact opposite. 

2352
02:03:00,720 --> 02:03:03,800
It attracts a lot of attention. 
We already see it attract 

2353
02:03:03,800 --> 02:03:06,360
attention for Brienne. 
And there's another actually two

2354
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:07,720
more examples that we're going 
to read. 

2355
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,760
So it was a poor choice by Jamie
in that regard. 

2356
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:12,240
But he's not the one who deals 
with that. 

2357
02:03:12,240 --> 02:03:14,880
He doesn't ever maybe realize 
that he made this mistake. 

2358
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,440
And of course it's a, it's a 
very small mistake, but it's a 

2359
02:03:17,440 --> 02:03:19,800
funny one. 
It's funnier because he's aware 

2360
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:22,960
he's heard the horror stories. 
He's like, I know about Mad 

2361
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:25,480
Donnell. 
I thought of her when Vargo 

2362
02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:28,720
Haute and Greg or were brought 
up to me about cannibalism and 

2363
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:34,160
all that. 
So, but he knows what the deal 

2364
02:03:34,160 --> 02:03:35,840
is with that sigil. 
Like he knows what it 

2365
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:38,440
represents, but he still thinks 
it's not a big deal. 

2366
02:03:38,440 --> 02:03:39,960
He doesn't see the symbolism. 
I guess. 

2367
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:43,000
You know, it makes for a better 
mistake, too. 

2368
02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:45,280
It makes for a good story. 
So this is George being really 

2369
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:49,280
clever by having Jamie do this. 
And let's move forward and see 

2370
02:03:49,280 --> 02:03:52,880
where it leads. 
What he does next is right after

2371
02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:56,080
he decides he can't personally 
fulfill the vow to Lady Catlin. 

2372
02:03:56,080 --> 02:03:59,520
He's like, well, the next best 
thing I can do is help Brienne 

2373
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:02,280
do it so I can sort of be 
fulfilling my vow to Lady Catlin

2374
02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:06,240
by sending a competent person to
do this job, someone who's very 

2375
02:04:06,240 --> 02:04:07,960
dedicated to it. 
Like, there's no doubt Brienne 

2376
02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:10,640
is going to try her hardest to 
find Sansa and Arya. 

2377
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:16,560
So he gives her money, that 
letter and gear to go find Lady 

2378
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:18,680
Catlin's daughters, including 
the sword, right? 

2379
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:21,440
Oath Keeper and the shield. 
This shield, this lost in 

2380
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:23,560
shield, it's kind of lost in the
shuffle because all there's all 

2381
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:26,480
these like outstanding important
things like Jamie Brand's like, 

2382
02:04:26,480 --> 02:04:30,240
all right, cool money, a new 
saddle, a Valyrian steel sword. 

2383
02:04:30,600 --> 02:04:32,600
Oh, and that weird ass bat 
shield. 

2384
02:04:33,360 --> 02:04:37,720
Lost in in the shuffle. 
Loft Dang good one good pun lost

2385
02:04:37,720 --> 02:04:38,960
in in the shuffle. 
Very nice. 

2386
02:04:38,960 --> 02:04:41,920
So yeah, Brand is in turn 
accosted not once, not twice, 

2387
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:43,600
but like three times for the 
shield. 

2388
02:04:43,880 --> 02:04:45,400
Three different people commented
on it. 

2389
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:48,280
Remember, Jamie thinks no one is
likely to object. 

2390
02:04:49,280 --> 02:04:53,080
Several people objected. 
Jamie, the narrator voice is big

2391
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:55,840
in this one, right? 
Several people objected. 

2392
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,360
Yeah, No, Gendry did not, in 
fact, stay there. 

2393
02:04:58,480 --> 02:05:01,800
Several people did, in fact, 
object to the first accosting. 

2394
02:05:01,800 --> 02:05:03,200
We already heard from Sir 
Illefer. 

2395
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:08,280
Here's the next accosting quote.
The captain's eyes lingered on 

2396
02:05:08,280 --> 02:05:11,480
her shield. 
The black bat of Lofston. 

2397
02:05:11,760 --> 02:05:14,880
Those are arms of ill repute. 
They are not mine. 

2398
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:17,480
I mean to have the shield 
repainted. 

2399
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:20,560
Of course, his tone shifts 
dramatically after that, because

2400
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:22,240
this captain's sister is a 
painter. 

2401
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:25,360
And he's like, Oh, go give my 
sister some business. 

2402
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:27,320
He's like, let them let her 
pass, right? 

2403
02:05:28,080 --> 02:05:31,760
So she goes to his sister and 
brings the shield, and she 

2404
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:33,760
reacts to it, too. 
Here we go, quote. 

2405
02:05:34,160 --> 02:05:37,320
She had a cheerful manner, but 
when Brienne showed her the 

2406
02:05:37,320 --> 02:05:42,520
shield, her face went dark. 
My old ma used to say that giant

2407
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:47,200
bats flew out from Harrenhal on 
moonless nights to carry bad 

2408
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:50,640
children to Mad Donnell for her 
cook pots. 

2409
02:05:51,080 --> 02:05:54,720
Sometimes I'd hear them 
scrabbling at the shutters. 

2410
02:05:55,280 --> 02:05:58,000
She sucked her teeth a moment, 
thoughtful. 

2411
02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:03,120
What goes in its place? 
So this is like a Westeros 

2412
02:06:03,120 --> 02:06:05,520
boogeyman story. 
People started to use Lady 

2413
02:06:05,520 --> 02:06:08,160
Danielle as an enduring story of
what you do if you don't obey 

2414
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:11,200
your parents. 
Kind of similar to the old dance

2415
02:06:11,200 --> 02:06:13,800
stories that we hear at the 
beginning, but one of the darker

2416
02:06:13,800 --> 02:06:15,240
ones, you know? 
But some of old nans are pretty 

2417
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:17,760
dark. 
Now what goes in his place is 

2418
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:19,080
the question asked by the 
painter. 

2419
02:06:19,080 --> 02:06:21,920
And of course it is painted just
like Duncan the tall shield, 

2420
02:06:21,920 --> 02:06:24,480
which also had wings, but not 
bat wings. 

2421
02:06:24,480 --> 02:06:26,760
A winged chalice. 
It's a lot more positive than a 

2422
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:29,760
bat in this setting. 
Now that's Duncan, not not 

2423
02:06:29,760 --> 02:06:31,160
Duncan the tall shield didn't 
have wings. 

2424
02:06:31,160 --> 02:06:34,480
I mean that Duncan the Tall's 
master, Sir Arlen's shield had 

2425
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:37,360
wings. 
So that's really neat that as 

2426
02:06:37,360 --> 02:06:40,160
part of the parallel to Brienne 
and Duncan. 

2427
02:06:40,160 --> 02:06:43,080
Of course, most of us here 
believe that Brienne has dunks 

2428
02:06:43,080 --> 02:06:45,200
ancestor. 
One of the first things they 

2429
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:48,440
both do when they're introduced 
with their own POV's is to have 

2430
02:06:48,440 --> 02:06:50,680
their shield painted. 
Dunk goes to have Sir Arlen's 

2431
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:55,560
shield repainted into the very 
same shield that Brienne has her

2432
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:59,120
shield painted into, which is 
the the shooting star and the 

2433
02:06:59,120 --> 02:07:02,040
tree. 
And so that's cool. 

2434
02:07:02,040 --> 02:07:03,240
They both have their shield 
repainted. 

2435
02:07:03,240 --> 02:07:05,360
Now, Dunk's shield wasn't 
repainted away from something 

2436
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:09,680
evil, but he actually thinks at 
first that the new version with 

2437
02:07:09,680 --> 02:07:11,920
the comet and the tree in the 
night time, he actually is like,

2438
02:07:11,920 --> 02:07:16,840
oh, this is quote all painted up
like death until Pate talks 

2439
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:19,000
about like, no, that's a tree. 
It's a living tree. 

2440
02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:20,520
This is this is life. 
This is good. 

2441
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:22,000
And then that that sets Dunk to 
write. 

2442
02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:24,160
He's like, OK, good point. 
And then he starts to look at it

2443
02:07:24,160 --> 02:07:27,680
more happily and positively. 
But it's kind of neat that it 

2444
02:07:27,680 --> 02:07:31,920
has that sort of reverse 
situation here where he gets 

2445
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:33,920
this nice shield repainted. 
And at first he thinks it's 

2446
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:38,480
Grimm, whereas Brienne gets this
Grimm shield repainted over into

2447
02:07:38,520 --> 02:07:41,080
this this new version. 
That is the same thing that Dunk

2448
02:07:41,080 --> 02:07:44,680
has nice symbolism here too. 
With with in Brienne's case, 

2449
02:07:45,000 --> 02:07:47,040
she's covering over evil with 
good. 

2450
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:50,120
She's turning evil into good, 
which is a lot of what she's 

2451
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:51,520
about. 
I mean, she is a very good 

2452
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:54,960
person. 
She's on a good person's quest 

2453
02:07:55,520 --> 02:08:00,280
and she's, you know, fighting 
evil, right? 

2454
02:08:00,280 --> 02:08:01,680
And using the tools of evil 
against them. 

2455
02:08:01,680 --> 02:08:02,520
It's kind of neat. 
I like that. 

2456
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:07,760
So the lost in legacy is how 
sufficiently villainous to be 

2457
02:08:08,120 --> 02:08:10,000
the sample villain. 
The opposite. 

2458
02:08:10,000 --> 02:08:13,840
Like you need to be a 
sufficiently villainous villain.

2459
02:08:15,280 --> 02:08:18,720
You need that to for a hero to 
be sufficiently heroic. 

2460
02:08:18,720 --> 02:08:22,480
And if you want Brienne, which 
he is, to stand out as a big 

2461
02:08:22,480 --> 02:08:25,720
hero, then the villains have to 
be pretty big too. 

2462
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:31,600
And Dunk also started and and 
not Dunk, but yeah, sorry, yes, 

2463
02:08:31,600 --> 02:08:35,080
Dunk. 
Duncan, Lucas Lofton both 

2464
02:08:35,080 --> 02:08:38,600
started off roughly as hedge 
Knights or descendants from 

2465
02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:40,480
hedge Knights with connection to
House Targaryen. 

2466
02:08:41,280 --> 02:08:43,960
In this case, one of the worst 
Targaryens for the lost ends egg

2467
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:46,240
on the unworthy and one of the 
best for Sir Duncan an egg. 

2468
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:49,840
So some of their experiences 
based on which Targaryen they 

2469
02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:54,040
had a lot of association with. 
But I think that it's not 

2470
02:08:54,040 --> 02:08:56,560
unlikely. 
In fact, it's likely that the 

2471
02:08:58,080 --> 02:09:01,040
Duncan egg stories will take us 
to Harrenhal during the era of 

2472
02:09:01,040 --> 02:09:03,000
Maddenel. 
Very likely, right? 

2473
02:09:03,000 --> 02:09:05,160
What? 
How can George resist bringing 

2474
02:09:05,160 --> 02:09:07,680
her into the story when she's 
been mentioned? 

2475
02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:10,720
In fact, in 2015 someone asked 
that someone said to George in 

2476
02:09:10,720 --> 02:09:13,080
an interview or not in an 
interview at a convention, asked

2477
02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:14,600
him. 
One of my favorite characters is

2478
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:15,960
Matt Donnell. 
She's super interesting. 

2479
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:17,600
Will we ever see her in a short 
story? 

2480
02:09:17,880 --> 02:09:20,040
And he said well we might see 
her in Dunkin Egg. 

2481
02:09:20,600 --> 02:09:22,720
No promises though. 
So he was pretty quick with the 

2482
02:09:22,720 --> 02:09:25,560
answer. 
One of the reasons I'm dying for

2483
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:30,160
Dunk to go to Harrenhal is 
because of his his saying Dunk 

2484
02:09:30,520 --> 02:09:35,040
the tall thick as a castle wall.
I'm not so sure if he's thick as

2485
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:37,440
those walls. 
Yes, he is. 

2486
02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:40,080
She says like Nah Z. 
No doubts. 

2487
02:09:40,080 --> 02:09:44,760
Thick with two CS. 
OK, we disagree on that one. 

2488
02:09:47,120 --> 02:09:53,720
So yeah, one the the Targaryens 
Lofton association created the 

2489
02:09:53,720 --> 02:09:57,440
evil black bats of Harrenhal, 
while the Targaryen Duncan, the 

2490
02:09:57,440 --> 02:10:00,360
tallest scenario created the 
white cloaked good knight of the

2491
02:10:00,360 --> 02:10:02,800
Kingsguard. 
So yeah, it goes opposite ways. 

2492
02:10:03,720 --> 02:10:07,720
So yeah, in some a few summary 
elements here, as we did 

2493
02:10:07,720 --> 02:10:11,160
earlier, we compared them to 
houses like Bolton and Peak, and

2494
02:10:11,240 --> 02:10:13,880
to a lesser extent houses like 
Uller and Bracken that are 

2495
02:10:14,680 --> 02:10:17,320
mostly villainous uller isn't 
100% villainous, neither is 

2496
02:10:17,320 --> 02:10:21,480
Bracken, but mostly villainous, 
mostly dark, mostly dangerous, 

2497
02:10:21,520 --> 02:10:25,240
if not straight up evil. 
Very few good things said about 

2498
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:28,160
them. 
Now, did the castle make them 

2499
02:10:28,160 --> 02:10:30,480
this way over the generations? 
I mean, Lucas was kind of 

2500
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:32,560
already a scumbag. 
It seems like maybe power went 

2501
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:37,040
to his head, so did it happen 
slowly or over time? 

2502
02:10:37,040 --> 02:10:39,520
Did the power go to their head 
that ruling this important 

2503
02:10:39,520 --> 02:10:42,720
castle, this dark castle that 
they associated with their own 

2504
02:10:42,720 --> 02:10:47,160
personalities or their own vibe?
Did supernatural mean slowly 

2505
02:10:47,160 --> 02:10:49,680
ruin them? 
Or was it just the straight up 

2506
02:10:50,640 --> 02:10:53,280
general generic being spoiled by
power? 

2507
02:10:53,840 --> 02:10:57,320
As usual, we have to say that 
it's quite possible that it's 

2508
02:10:57,320 --> 02:10:59,400
both. 
Did they fall from status and 

2509
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:02,520
privilege not because of 
Harrenhal, but because they were

2510
02:11:02,520 --> 02:11:04,920
corrupted by its power? 
That's entirely possible too. 

2511
02:11:05,800 --> 02:11:11,600
Or corrupted by the health 
impacts of the lack of ability 

2512
02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:13,400
to bear children. 
You know, maybe it's just as 

2513
02:11:13,400 --> 02:11:17,320
simple as that Harrenhal did for
another family because they 

2514
02:11:17,320 --> 02:11:20,360
couldn't procreate. 
But I have a feeling that when 

2515
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:23,200
we learn more, it won't be that 
simple. 

2516
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:26,240
It's more fun to bring out the 
supernatural elements. 

2517
02:11:26,240 --> 02:11:28,720
No, but of of course this is Jar
Jar Mar and he doesn't go too 

2518
02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:30,800
crazy with that stuff, but he 
likes to include it. 

2519
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:34,640
So that's why we constantly come
back to a little of both. 

2520
02:11:34,960 --> 02:11:39,320
Some of it's the reputation of 
proto medieval women as rulers 

2521
02:11:39,320 --> 02:11:41,280
and the negative attitudes 
associated with them. 

2522
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:44,280
Some of it is black magic and 
blood magic's kind of fun to 

2523
02:11:44,280 --> 02:11:47,640
include in a story if you if you
keep it contained and not go too

2524
02:11:47,640 --> 02:11:50,440
crazy with it. 
Maybe she went crazy with it, 

2525
02:11:50,440 --> 02:11:53,280
but story wise it doesn't have 
to go too crazy. 

2526
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:56,760
So I feel like if we do learn 
more, and I think we will, 

2527
02:11:57,320 --> 02:12:00,960
they're only going to cement 
this reputation by lengthening 

2528
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:05,000
the list of darty, darty dirty 
deeds, dark deeds, dark doings, 

2529
02:12:05,160 --> 02:12:08,200
Rather than it becoming somewhat
balanced out by like, oh, 

2530
02:12:08,200 --> 02:12:10,120
actually the lobsters weren't so
bad. 

2531
02:12:10,120 --> 02:12:13,280
We find out some other takes 
from some different maesters and

2532
02:12:13,280 --> 02:12:15,520
maybe this balances. 
I really don't see that 

2533
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:16,800
happening. 
I don't see that happening for 

2534
02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:22,240
the Boltons or Peaks either. 
But it just it, it'll, it's 

2535
02:12:22,240 --> 02:12:26,120
better, maybe more interesting, 
more lurid, more lore about the 

2536
02:12:26,120 --> 02:12:30,480
darkness of Harrenhal would be 
fitting if it goes in that 

2537
02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:33,440
direction. 
And the supernatural, the dark, 

2538
02:12:33,440 --> 02:12:37,040
the evil, rather than trying to 
rehabilitate the image of that 

2539
02:12:37,040 --> 02:12:38,480
place. 
Why do that? 

2540
02:12:38,480 --> 02:12:42,440
It's more fun the way it is. 
Other than John Lawston in A 

2541
02:12:42,440 --> 02:12:45,040
Song of Ice and Fire, like I 
said, who in the Golden Company 

2542
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:46,520
probably isn't actually a 
Lawston? 

2543
02:12:46,920 --> 02:12:49,840
Our chance to see more of them 
likely falls in the Duncan Egg 

2544
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:52,120
books and of course, the Duncan 
Egg show that's coming. 

2545
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:55,760
The fall of Lady Donnell might 
even be what we see in Duncan 

2546
02:12:55,760 --> 02:12:56,880
Egg, if we see it. 
If we're going to have an 

2547
02:12:56,880 --> 02:13:00,560
adventure to Duncan Egg that 
involves her, that might be it. 

2548
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:04,800
Like Makar wants to come take 
her down and maybe Duncan Egg 

2549
02:13:04,800 --> 02:13:08,320
are involved in that. 
I mean, how can we not have a 

2550
02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:09,720
Heron hall adventure in there 
somewhere? 

2551
02:13:09,720 --> 02:13:11,720
I'm it's super. 
I mean the black fire rebellion.

2552
02:13:11,720 --> 02:13:13,480
She could be involved in the 
third black fire rebellion. 

2553
02:13:13,520 --> 02:13:15,760
There's there's chances for her 
to be involved many times 

2554
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:17,000
actually. 
So it doesn't have to be just a 

2555
02:13:17,000 --> 02:13:20,480
one time thing. 
I would also not be surprised to

2556
02:13:20,480 --> 02:13:23,400
see them in Ashford Meadow in 
season 1 of the show, not just 

2557
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:25,080
to introduce them not to. 
I'm not saying they'll have 

2558
02:13:25,080 --> 02:13:26,520
lines that they'll be part of 
the plot. 

2559
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:29,480
Just see that flag, see that 
banner in the distance. 

2560
02:13:29,480 --> 02:13:30,560
We're going to see a lot of 
banners. 

2561
02:13:30,560 --> 02:13:33,560
It's the tournament, right, And 
Dunk isn't great with banners. 

2562
02:13:33,560 --> 02:13:38,000
So from our POV versus the 
reader POV, which is his POV, we

2563
02:13:38,600 --> 02:13:41,560
should see a lot more sigils and
understand what they are because

2564
02:13:41,880 --> 02:13:44,160
it's cameras. 
It's it's a narrator view. 

2565
02:13:44,160 --> 02:13:46,600
When you're seeing cameras. 
It's not Duncan's point of view,

2566
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:50,000
like the book. 
We might even see, we might 

2567
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:52,920
actually see blossoms involved 
in the plot line of hedge knight

2568
02:13:52,920 --> 02:13:54,400
somehow. 
Nothing big, I wouldn't guess, 

2569
02:13:54,400 --> 02:13:57,320
but just to have them there just
to see them to, you know, these 

2570
02:13:57,320 --> 02:13:59,240
guys are going to matter. 
Build them up, get people 

2571
02:13:59,240 --> 02:14:02,160
familiar with them. 
I I could see that they can do 

2572
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:05,480
the helmet trick, you know that 
they do where there's this is 

2573
02:14:05,480 --> 02:14:08,120
Lord Lofton, but they just, he 
doesn't say a word and he's in a

2574
02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:10,800
helmet. 
So they don't have to cast the 

2575
02:14:10,800 --> 02:14:14,200
person that they really have in 
mind for the long term. 

2576
02:14:14,200 --> 02:14:16,720
Or they just have a temporary 
actor or actress that's just 

2577
02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:19,760
wearing the armor and not 
talking, but has all the sigils 

2578
02:14:19,760 --> 02:14:22,280
and heraldry and everything. 
Yeah, that could happen. 

2579
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:26,000
And of course, if there's ever a
Black Fire era Rebellion show, 

2580
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:28,880
then they would definitely play 
a part there as well. 

2581
02:14:28,880 --> 02:14:32,040
They'd play a significant part, 
maybe a very significant part. 

2582
02:14:32,680 --> 02:14:36,600
So All in all, there's a lot 
here to work with and a lot of 

2583
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:40,280
room to do it. 
The direction the franchise is 

2584
02:14:40,280 --> 02:14:44,640
heading seems to be a place 
that's going to include this 

2585
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:47,040
house. 
And I look forward to learning 

2586
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:49,680
more about them, and I look 
forward to whatever George gives

2587
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:51,840
us in the future regarding them 
as well, because I think there's

2588
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:56,000
going to be some stuff. 
The first hour of the night in 

2589
02:14:56,000 --> 02:14:59,080
Westeros is called what? 
That was our trivia question. 

2590
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:01,360
And it is called. 
Yeah, I think a lot of you 

2591
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:03,720
probably got this one the hour 
of the bat. 

2592
02:15:03,920 --> 02:15:06,520
People did guess. 
It nice it went a little easier 

2593
02:15:06,520 --> 02:15:08,280
this time. 
You can kind of figure that one 

2594
02:15:08,280 --> 02:15:10,720
out by context, but it's fun to 
refer to those. 

2595
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:12,800
There's there's, you know, 12. 
We don't know all the hours of 

2596
02:15:12,800 --> 02:15:18,440
night, but we do know that one. 
Next time we have an episode 

2597
02:15:18,440 --> 02:15:22,040
called Stormborn Coming, which 
will be all about Daenerys 

2598
02:15:22,040 --> 02:15:25,280
birth, Rayela's flight to 
Dragonstone, and the events that

2599
02:15:25,280 --> 02:15:27,120
are happening around then, 
meaning the fall of King's 

2600
02:15:27,120 --> 02:15:29,960
Landing, so the end of Robert 
Rebellion, basically. 

2601
02:15:30,200 --> 02:15:34,200
What happened that night, why 
did she have that nickname, all 

2602
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:36,320
that. 
But we also have a scripted 

2603
02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:41,040
episode coming out shortly on 
Nymeria's Conquest of Dorn that 

2604
02:15:41,040 --> 02:15:47,280
will be available for patrons 
very soon and soonish, and for 

2605
02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:50,320
the rest of y'all in a few weeks
or so. 

2606
02:15:50,600 --> 02:15:52,280
But you can sign up to Patreon 
to get it sooner. 

2607
02:15:52,880 --> 02:15:55,120
We mentioned a few other 
episodes that you might want to 

2608
02:15:55,120 --> 02:15:56,680
check out that are relevant to 
this one. 

2609
02:15:56,920 --> 02:16:00,000
Certainly our Blackfire series, 
Egon the Unworthy is the first 

2610
02:16:00,000 --> 02:16:01,920
part of that. 
So that's one place to start. 

2611
02:16:02,200 --> 02:16:05,280
We talked about other Heron Hall
episodes at the beginning, 

2612
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:09,480
Curses with Doctor Kavita Mudan 
Finn, Old God's Eye with Joe, 

2613
02:16:09,480 --> 02:16:12,960
Magician, Dreams of Damon with 
Quinn the GM, some very fun 

2614
02:16:12,960 --> 02:16:16,400
guest episodes we did that 
involve Heron Hall and the 

2615
02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:18,880
surrounding territory, the 
region, but also, of course, our

2616
02:16:18,880 --> 02:16:20,880
Duncan Egg series. 
We just talked about Duncan Egg 

2617
02:16:20,880 --> 02:16:24,280
a lot in this episode and we've 
got a lot of episodes on them. 

2618
02:16:24,280 --> 02:16:27,920
We do. 
We did each book of the Dunkin 

2619
02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:29,840
Egg series. 
We did a a full read through and

2620
02:16:30,360 --> 02:16:32,480
4 episodes on each I believe it 
was. 

2621
02:16:32,480 --> 02:16:35,680
So you can find those in our 
catalog and everything else that

2622
02:16:35,680 --> 02:16:38,400
we've got. 
And we hope you enjoy the large 

2623
02:16:38,799 --> 02:16:41,520
back catalog that we have. 
Lots of fun things to be found 

2624
02:16:41,520 --> 02:16:42,920
in there. 
Lots of ways to stay immersed in

2625
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:46,440
Westeros. 
Once again, Magic Mind, you get 

2626
02:16:46,440 --> 02:16:50,920
45% off the Magic Mind bundle. 
That includes a subscription to 

2627
02:16:51,240 --> 02:16:55,400
the Sleep Elixir and their 
classic mental performance 

2628
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:57,959
shots. 
That's magicmind.com. 

2629
02:16:58,040 --> 02:17:04,840
VIPHOW Jan VIP How Jan. 
Thanks to Nina for her excellent

2630
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:07,080
notes, lots of great theories 
and ideas. 

2631
02:17:07,080 --> 02:17:09,480
And this one, this is one, like 
I said, we're working with a lot

2632
02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:12,240
less information, a lot of 
triangulating, a lot of reading 

2633
02:17:12,240 --> 02:17:15,520
between the lines. 
Nina's really good at that, and 

2634
02:17:15,520 --> 02:17:17,799
I think it shows in episodes 
like this. 

2635
02:17:18,480 --> 02:17:21,639
Thanks as well to everyone else 
involved in helping History of 

2636
02:17:21,639 --> 02:17:25,360
Westeros be what it is. 
That includes our our music 

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02:17:25,840 --> 02:17:29,520
makers, Joey and Jesse and 
Michael Klarfeld for his video 

2638
02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:33,639
intro, which we see often. 
And if you want to get support, 

2639
02:17:33,639 --> 02:17:37,879
Michael claredox.de, that's 
KLARADO x.de. 

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02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:40,480
You can get his maps there, 
download them, and then have 

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02:17:40,480 --> 02:17:43,760
them printed on your own. 
That's it for today, everybody. 

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02:17:44,440 --> 02:17:47,680
You know what to do. 
Valar rereads.