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None. 
The murder of young Prince 

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Jeharis is one of the most 
shocking and painful scenes ever

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written by George R Martin, and 
it was adapted in part for 

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Season 2, episode one of House 
of the Dragon. 

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Blood and Cheese, when paired 
with the death of Prince Luceris

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at the hands of Amond and 
Veigar, ensured that the Dance 

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of the Dragons would be a bitter
civil war. 

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As opposed to, you know, just a 
regular civil war, which is 

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usually flowers and fairies and 
fun stuff, right? 

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But it also had a long term 
impact on the Red Keep. 

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That in turn had an impact on 
Arya's plotline, an impact which

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may not yet be fully realized. 
So we had a rare chance to 

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discuss both House of the Dragon
and A Song of Ice and Fire, and 

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that'll be fun. 
And yes, the impact I refer to 

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for Aria does include cats, as 
the title of this episode 

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suggests. 
So cat lovers, which that 

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includes all three of your hosts
here, by the way, we're all cat 

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lovers here. 
You might like this one a bit 

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extra because the cats come out 
on top. 

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Cats prove their worth, and no 
cats were harmed in the filming 

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of the steps. 
Of course we wouldn't harm cat, 

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am I even saying? 
But we'll explore the foul 

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murder from book and show 
perspective, discuss some of the

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immediate and long term fallout,
plus these connections to a song

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of ice and fire. 
And we've got all that and more 

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on this episode of history of 
Westeros podcast podcasts. 

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This time perhaps is more 
accurate or at least partly 

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accurate. 
Yes, hello and welcome everybody

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back for another episode. 
These episodes that we're doing 

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on Wednesday, let's say this. 
This episode and the ones like 

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it on Wednesdays are our weekly 
deep dive into a topic of notes,

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usually something that's been 
prominent lately. 

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We kind of saw this one coming 
ahead of time because we knew 

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the episode was called A Sun for
a Sun. 

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That made it pretty obvious what
was going to happen from book 

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perspective. 
We didn't know exactly what. 

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We didn't know how it would be 
adapted, but that's what we're 

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here to talk about today. 
We do our regular non spoiler 

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reviews of each episode on 
Mondays at six Eastern and we do

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spoiler filled prediction 
episodes on Saturdays and we 

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also do game streams at six 
Eastern on Fridays. 

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So check those out if you are so
inclined. 

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Hey Sean, how's it going? 
You got to read the little bit 

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of blood and cheese that exists 
before, you know, in between now

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and our last live stream. 
You you'd watched it and now 

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you've read the little bit and 
it's only, it's only 8 

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paragraphs. 
You were expecting it to maybe 

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be a little longer, huh? 
Yeah, especially the, you know, 

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again, I, I, I try to keep 
things that are at a distance. 

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I, I, I don't want to dig too 
deep because I'm trying to keep 

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from being spoiled and I feel 
like I'm generally pretty good 

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at that. 
But still a certain sentiment 

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comes through the people around 
me and Twitteros or whatever. 

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And it seemed like there was a 
lot of expectations for this, 

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which, you know, maybe we kind 
of my my role here is to have 

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the viewpoint as someone that 
doesn't have expectations from 

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the. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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And so I thought this might have
been something, it was a 

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chapter's worth, you know, of, 
of intrigue. 

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You know, there's still bits of 
this that I'm, I'm wondering 

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about, like, do these get caught
guys get caught? 

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How did they get caught? 
You know, maybe, and some people

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seem to think that it, maybe it 
was more vicious in the book and

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I it was, I suppose, but it 
wasn't extremely more and it was

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only a, a page worth of 
material. 

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Like it's there, you know, you 
know, maybe people want to 

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compare it to something extreme 
like the Red Wedding or 

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whatever. 
And I, I, I kind of get that 

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maybe relative to fire and 
blood. 

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You know, if you look at the the
extreme events of Fire and Blood

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versus the extreme events of A 
Game of Thrones, I think the 

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real difference is you know 
those characters better. 

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In the Oh yeah, that makes 
sense, yes. 

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It really comes down to so that 
that that like the idea that 

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this might have been a chapter 
worth of material. 

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Well, think how many chapters 
Caitlyn had and Rob had. 

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You get to know them. 
The the Red Wedding itself was 

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only a chapter, but it was still
a chapter about a bunch of 

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people that you've come to know 
really well over multiple books.

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So. 
Of all the episodes for you to 

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still call her Caitlyn? 
Cat. 

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She's Cat. 
Anyway, you're absolutely right.

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I 100% agree with that. 
It's we we get so much more time

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to learn those characters and 
we're so much deeper in the 

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story by the time it happens. 
There's, there's vast amounts of

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foreshadowing for the Red 
Wedding and Caitlyn's chapter 

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alone where the Red Wedding 
happens is longer than the 

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section of blood and cheat or a 
section of fire and blood where 

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this happens. 
In fact, it's vastly longer. 

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It's like 2 minutes. 
I to, to get Sean ready for 

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this. 
I screenshotted the three pages 

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from the fire and blood ebook 
and send it over to him. 

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It's three ebook pages, which is
phone sized pages, which means 

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it's less than one full size 
page. 

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That's the entirety of Fire of 
of Blood and Cheese. 

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It's 8 paragraphs. 
I think some, some folks maybe 

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don't realize just how, how 
short the whole thing is and how

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quickly you can just read it and
go through it. 

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And yeah, I also agree with you.
Like it's not, it's definitely 

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more vicious in the books. 
The, the, the things that are 

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said and the way it's set up and
conducted is, is nastier. 

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And technically there's a couple
more victims too. 

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There's like two random guards 
that get killed. 

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So there's even a little bit 
more death. 

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But it's not fundamentally 
different. 

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It's not going to have a bigger 
or smaller necessarily reaction.

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The Greens aren't going to be 
like, oh, this is so much 

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better. 
You know, fans of the, if you're

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a fan of the Greens, it's the 
result is basically the same, 

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you know? 
I I will say that there were a 

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couple of the differences like 
they captured Allison. 

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That's a big difference, yeah. 
She also witnessed the beheading

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of a child like. 
That's. 

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Really awesome and gruesome and 
one thing that let's say awesome

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and gruesome. 
Awesome and gruesome. 

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Awesome, depending on your 
perspective. 

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But like, awesome that that head
just went flying. 

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It was awesome. 
One thing I was speculating on 

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is the impact this is going to 
have on Helena, who already 

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seems to be, you know, I don't 
know what word to use exactly 

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out of swords Abnormal, you 
know? 

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She's not a divergent man. 
Yeah. 

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So how this might affect her is 
is difficult to predict, but 

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probably not going to make her 
suddenly a happy, cheery person,

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right? 
But it would have a terrible 

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effect on out on any person you 
know. 

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So I I don't know how well that 
was reflected in Fire and Blood.

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They don't get a lot into 
personalities and characters. 

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A. 
Little bit more just like 

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sequences of events, whereas the
show will. 

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And maybe that's even a reason 
why they didn't do it 'cause 

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that might have been too 
difficult to really portray and 

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her character might have been 
too distracting from all the 

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other events that are going to 
occur. 

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I I'm not sure. 
Yeah. 

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I guess one reason is it keeps 
her from hooking up with Kristen

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at that moment. 
Well, that's and that's an and 

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that's an interesting comparison
because instead of her 

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witnessing the event, which is 
obviously super traumatic, 

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instead she has this secondary 
trauma of potentially being part

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of the reason the guard wasn't 
in the right place or this is 

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what she's she's going to 
forever associate sleeping with 

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him with the death of her 
grandchild like that. 

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These there's a lot of ways they
could do this in the show that 

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still, I'm sure Allison's going 
to be very traumatized one way 

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or the other witnessing it. 
Yeah, that would probably be 

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worse, but it's still going to 
be awfully bad. 

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And of course, the other main 
difference, which is arguably a 

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a bigger difference is the 
difference the lack of Malor. 

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There's a younger son in the 
book version that doesn't exist 

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here in the show version, at 
least not yet. 

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There's some suggestion from 
Ryan Condall that Naylor may 

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come later, but we'll we'll 
leave that aside for now. 

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But it's an interesting 
possibility. 

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And one thing we're going to 
talk about today is the 

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difference in book versus show 
succession issues, which is 

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deeply affected by the lack or 
presence of Naylor. 

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So that's something to discuss 
today as well, Sean. 

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I was going to say that I do 
think that is a pretty big 

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difference, like how the 
succession is going to go and 

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we'll talk about that more. 
But that I think that that leads

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me to think that Maillor is 
going to come because I feel 

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like for the show to keep the 
same momentum as the book, even 

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if some details are different, 
there needs to be. 

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I don't quite know how this 
plays out. 

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So maybe it doesn't. 
Maybe maybe the Blacks win and 

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it doesn't matter if the Greens 
have an error after Aegon. 

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I don't know. 
But but there is another key 

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00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:04,000
difference. 
I think in the show it seems as 

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though Damon goes to these guys 
and says, hey, I want you to 

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kill Amon. 
And they're like, well, what if 

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we can't get Amon And we don't 
see it on screen? 

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00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,600
But there's a pretty clear 
implication that he, well, just 

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00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,440
get one of the other Princess. 
A son for a son. 

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00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,760
Yeah, they know that phrase. 
So yeah, they have, yeah, have 

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00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:27,920
been told it. 
So in the book though they 

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00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,280
planned the plan was that they 
never mentioned Amon one bit. 

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The, the, the idea is like, 
well, we know we can't get to 

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Aegon, but we can get to the 
Queen, so we'll get to the Queen

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00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,600
and wait for Helena to show up. 
Like we know, like that seemed 

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00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,120
like the plan from the in the 
from the get go, not what they 

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00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,040
ended up doing. 
Whereas in a show it seemed like

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what they ended up doing. 
So yes, exactly how important 

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that is I don't know, but it is 
a key difference. 

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00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,480
I think it's a key difference 
for us. 

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00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,160
It's not a key difference in the
world in terms of how people 

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00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,400
will react 'cause they won't 
know. 

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00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,400
And that's kind of how the the 
cleverness of how the show did 

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00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,760
it there. 
It's like they don't know what 

190
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,400
the plan was either. 
They don't. 

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00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,480
None of this, none of this 
dialogue should be known by the 

192
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,560
maesters. 
Even they don't know what was 

193
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,040
said and what wasn't 
necessarily. 

194
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,920
They weren't there. 
They didn't interview Allison. 

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00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,720
Although, and and again, I don't
know how this plays out in the 

196
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,120
book and what the show's doing 
different, but there was one 

197
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,440
little snippet of the show that 
I meant to bring up in our last 

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00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,560
episode that might maybe is more
relevant here. 

199
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,160
There was one of the. 
I don't know what term to use. 

200
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,440
Yeah. 
Chambermaids. 

201
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:27,440
Whatever. 
Yeah, exactly. 

202
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:31,360
That was twice featured 2 times 
they kind of made a point of 

203
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,960
showing her face. 
One was when Aegon came in to 

204
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:40,320
get Jahari's and he checked and 
he had to see which twin they 

205
00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,600
kind of look showed her face 
when Helena made the comment 

206
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,240
about the rats and then it she 
was present again when Blood and

207
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,360
Cheese showed up she. 
Was the one person there? 

208
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,640
Yeah, yeah. 
Yes. 

209
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,360
People call her Emma Stone. 
Yeah, she's the Emma Stone 

210
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,000
there. 
She did have those like thick 

211
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:59,080
dark eyebrows and I don't, I 
wish I could remember what she 

212
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,920
was present for, but Bloody 
Cheese were having dialogue 

213
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,560
about like he said, a son for a 
son. 

214
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,040
No head, no, no gold or 
whatever. 

215
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:08,200
I don't know. 
She. 

216
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,280
She wasn't there for that. 
She might have been like around 

217
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,080
a corner, but she was gone when 
he like he like put the trap 

218
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,000
down and then she was gone. 
Yeah. 

219
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600
So she might not have heard some
of that discussion, but she was 

220
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,880
a witness to who these guys were
that they came in. 

221
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,840
Well, she saw one of them. 
She might not have seen both of 

222
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,200
them, but she may have seen both
of them. 

223
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,000
And it's also interesting that 
she kind of suddenly 

224
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,480
disappeared. 
I feel confident she's going to 

225
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,560
tell Loris. 
Yeah, she's probably hired by 

226
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,440
Loris. 
Put in place by him and probably

227
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,520
more loyal to him. 
So she's not running to get the 

228
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,640
guard. 
She's not running to tell 

229
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,440
Allison. 
She's running to tell. 

230
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,000
Either tell Loris or tell 
someone who can't tell Loris. 

231
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,720
I think you're 100% right. 
And I think it may have even 

232
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,680
been a deliberate casting to 
give someone with such like a 

233
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,840
very noticeable physical feature
that people would catch. 

234
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,440
She would catch our eye that 
this person with the with the 

235
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,200
9:50 eyebrows that we're going 
to give us a notice, a feature 

236
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,520
that you catch that you might 
not normally notice because it's

237
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,120
not a like a person that doesn't
have any lines. 

238
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,320
But because this, this stands 
out. 

239
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,560
You see, because I think she was
in more than those two scenes. 

240
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,160
I think she was also in one of 
the like the bath scene where 

241
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,920
Allison dismissed everybody. 
Oh I didn't even think of that 

242
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,560
probably, but I but I did wanted
to say she was featured. 

243
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,440
I felt like the camera lingered 
on her two times specifically. 

244
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,360
She may have been shown multiple
other times, but IA. 100% agree 

245
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,160
with that. 
So let's talk get into a little 

246
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:29,720
more about what we're going to 
talk about today. 

247
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,520
We got off on a nice start there
with the discussion, but I 

248
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,080
didn't quite finish all the set 
up that I wanted to say nothing.

249
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,040
No problem with that. 
Let's just say it now. 

250
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,680
The the other bit I wanted to 
talk about is the how this 

251
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:43,680
impacts the dance and how we're 
not going to cover a lot of the 

252
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:45,400
immediate impact. 
We're going to cover the short 

253
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,920
term impact a little bit, but 
mostly the set up and the long 

254
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,400
term impact and some guesses as 
to what might happen on the show

255
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,560
'cause we don't we don't know. 
And to point out how to 

256
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,960
reference your earlier point 
about the in world impact of it.

257
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,400
Yeah, it's not like a violation 
of guest right. 

258
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,240
It's not it doesn't change the 
direction of a war. 

259
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,800
It may be help start a war that 
was probably already going to 

260
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,640
start. 
And but in terms of like how 

261
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,320
much of A violation it is and 
how people tend to view the 

262
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,440
characters, it definitely 
changes how people are going to 

263
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,440
view Daemon, just like it 
changed dramatically how people 

264
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,080
viewed the phrase. 
The phrase will it probably 

265
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,440
won't ever be forgotten that 
they did this. 

266
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,200
It's a like a permanent stain on
them. 

267
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,640
And this is probably forever 
tied to Damon as well and might 

268
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,080
stain other members of his 
family if it's connected, 

269
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,800
depending on how people view 
that connection. 

270
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,360
Say blame. 
Do they blame it on Rainiera? 

271
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,200
Do they blame it on just Damon? 
Like who? 

272
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,360
Who takes the fall for this? 
And what happens in Fire and 

273
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,960
Blood is not what is not 
necessarily our guide for what's

274
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,560
going to happen in the show. 
What? 

275
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,480
What other? 
Not to take away from any of 

276
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,600
your points, and I'm probably 
beating a dead horse here, but I

277
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,520
also want to point out there 
will be less total people that 

278
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,080
take this personally, as with 
the Red Wedding or some other 

279
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,520
events, because it's it's it's 
bigger and the people who do 

280
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,520
take it personally are more 
powerful, but it's still just 

281
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,320
one person, right? 
Like at the Red Wedding score 

282
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,280
hundreds of it, hundreds of 
people were killed and they all 

283
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400
had families, right? 
And all those people are going 

284
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,360
to remember and take it 
personally and pass the story 

285
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,840
down. 
And it won't just be this lore 

286
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,480
that happened in the capital 
between these dragon riders. 

287
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,200
It's more real now. 
The dragon riders are very 

288
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,680
personal and they're the ones 
that are gonna take this 

289
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,200
personal or, or they're very 
powerful and they're gonna take 

290
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,800
this very personal. 
And it's gonna I, I, you said 

291
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,440
earlier this won't necessarily 
turn the course of a war, but I 

292
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,640
think it might. 
I think it might make this. 

293
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,080
They are now willing to do the 
same thing. 

294
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,840
All right, You're gonna kill our
son if you're gonna hire 

295
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:41,600
assassins. 
They. 

296
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,720
Didn't hire soldiers on the 
field anymore, right? 

297
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,000
Didn't that already happen 
though? 

298
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,000
Isn't that why they did it? 
Because of the death of Luceri. 

299
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:49,320
That's true. 
That's true. 

300
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's. 

301
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,280
So, and there's only so many 
children on either side and 

302
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,520
someone has to survive, right? 
But there is one other thing 

303
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,960
that's not part of the Red 
Wedding that is a factor here, 

304
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,680
that that's, I think, pretty 
huge, which is it's a common 

305
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,840
born person killing a Targaryen,
killing a Prince slash king, a a

306
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,200
member of the royal family. 
That is relatively unheard of. 

307
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,920
And even that doesn't happen at 
the Red Wedding. 

308
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,000
That's, you know, Robb Stark is 
a king, but he wasn't killed by 

309
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000
a commoner. 
He was killed by Ruth Bolton. 

310
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:19,320
He was killed by. 
Yeah. 

311
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,280
Well, even if he's not, he's 
still not killed by a commoner. 

312
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,240
Whatever title he was, he wasn't
killed by a commoner. 

313
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,320
That's the part that matters. 
And that, that that's a big deal

314
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,440
in Westeros society. 
It's like you there. 

315
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,240
The Targaryens are close to 
gods. 

316
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,800
They have the doctrine of 
exceptionalism. 

317
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,920
They wrote a book to explain how
they're better than everybody 

318
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,280
else. 
So they would so the laws 

319
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,840
literally wouldn't apply to 
them. 

320
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,200
Like, no, incest is OK for them.
It's not OK for anyone else like

321
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,520
they. 
So this is shocking in the sense

322
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,320
that it breaks that barrier that
that isn't real. 

323
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,760
It's not a real barrier, but 
it's this cultural belief that 

324
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,760
this is unthinkable. 
It's like, no, this is this is a

325
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,520
child. 
Of course a person can kill 

326
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,760
this. 
It's it's easy. 

327
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,960
Actually, they don't fight back 
at all. 

328
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,640
I'm. 
Going to read Blood and Cheese's

329
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,280
book. 
Yeah, right. 

330
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,079
So let's back up to how it gets 
started. 

331
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,359
Mazarian knows these two people 
through her long term dealings 

332
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,880
and collecting of secrets and 
collecting of people's 

333
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,680
weaknesses, collecting the 
things that allow you to move 

334
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,840
them, their levers, their their 
weak points, their temptations 

335
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,120
to get someone to do something 
they normally wouldn't do or to 

336
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,280
entice them to do something that
you want them to do. 

337
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,360
In Blood's case, it he doesn't 
seem like he needed much 

338
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,200
encouragement. 
This guy just seems very greedy.

339
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,240
He's he's, he's violence is 
nothing to him and money is is 

340
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,240
great to him. 
And seem to have a grudge 

341
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,800
against the Hightowers already 
too. 

342
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,680
Yes, now we don't know what that
grudge is. 

343
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,120
It's not hard to imagine a 
grudge against the high towers. 

344
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,880
That's easy to just of course, 
some he he they did him wrong at

345
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,880
some point, like maybe it's not 
even a fair grievance, but it's 

346
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,200
it's not hard to imagine 
something there now in terms of 

347
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,840
cheese. 
He seems a little more has a 

348
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,160
little more sense of this is a 
dangerous thing that we're doing

349
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,000
here. 
He needed a little more 

350
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,880
encouragement. 
The money mattered to him. 

351
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,440
He needed it. 
He was broke, he had debts. 

352
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,160
And that was the lever that 
Mazzari already knew to leverage

353
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,600
and could tell Damon, this is 
what you do is you go in and 

354
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,000
tell him how you know, how much 
money do you owe? 

355
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,400
He's going to be like, yeah, I 
do owe a lot of money. 

356
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,320
And and then probably from the 
dangerous. 

357
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,560
People too, right? 
Good point, good point. 

358
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,120
This is the underworld we're 
talking about and in in a place 

359
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,320
that is pretty lawless in the 
1st place. 

360
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,360
So we've already seen how this 
regime or the previous regime, 

361
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,640
which I doubt it's any different
now, at least not in the short 

362
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,600
term since it's been like just a
couple weeks at most since Aegon

363
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,320
took over. 
They never, they weren't very 

364
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,960
good at handling like crime in 
the city. 

365
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,200
We already saw like they 
appointed Damon to be in charge 

366
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,240
of that and his way of handling 
it was just hacking people up, 

367
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,920
you know, in in one go rather 
than like steady justice, you 

368
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,560
know, it's like. 
No trials, no explanation of the

369
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,120
law. 
So it's. 

370
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,040
Already a very lawless place. 
It's through Damon that people 

371
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,520
like Blood got hired, 
presumably, right? 

372
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,800
Like he was a gold cloak. 
That's what Blood was. 

373
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,160
Very good point. 
That's who hired him in the 1st 

374
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,080
place. 
Excellent point. 

375
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,400
Like this is the the 
institutional corruption, the 

376
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,400
damage that was dealt long time 
ago. 

377
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,000
It's not Aegon's fault, or even 
necessarily Otto's fault that 

378
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,280
this guy was in this position to
do this, although as we said 

379
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,840
before, Otto was aware that 
there were loyalists to Damon in

380
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,400
the City Watch, and now he 
appears to have dilly dallied 

381
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,280
too long about replacing them. 
Something you said a minute ago 

382
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,200
about imagining ideas why blood 
might not like the Hightowers 

383
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,840
reminded me of another thing I 
took note of. 

384
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,240
There were a lot of the 
soldiers, guards, whatnot 

385
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,040
manning the tower, the Scorpion,
just all around. 

386
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:04,040
We're in High Tower Green and I 
imagine they probably brought in

387
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,920
some soldiers from Old Town. 
And those guys might have got 

388
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,360
put in positions of authority 
over blood. 

389
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,200
I was a Sergeant, I was on the 
King's Got These guys come out 

390
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,720
of nowhere and now they're in 
charge me. 

391
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,400
Screw these high towers. 
They could be, could be, yeah. 

392
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,840
I like them telling people what 
to do and getting the point 

393
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,400
they. 
Don't know my city, they don't 

394
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,520
know what I've been through. 
And that is actually one of the 

395
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,200
things that happens in the book,
one of the high tower sons. 

396
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,640
There's, I don't even think 
there's going to be multiple 

397
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,560
sons of Otto in the in the show.
There's just Gwane I think, but 

398
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,440
there's multiples in in the book
and one of them is given 

399
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,800
captaincy of one of the gates 
and it's probably was someone 

400
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,400
else got demoted because of it. 
And that character does have a 

401
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,640
grudge. 
So it's it's almost like they 

402
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,000
mashed that character up, which 
they might still use him. 

403
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,280
His name is Luthor Largent. 
They might matter. 

404
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,160
He's sort of an amalgam of the 
book version of Blood. 

405
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,240
Season one just in a minor like 
oh someone was credited as being

406
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,760
Luther Largent am I wrong? 
Oh, really? 

407
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:04,640
Maybe. 
Thought there was. 

408
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:05,720
I thought he was one of the 
gold. 

409
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,040
Clubs. 
Oh, no, we thought it was. 

410
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,000
That was our theory. 
But then we saw that guy talking

411
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,560
and his name was like Captain 
Bennett or something like that. 

412
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,880
Yeah, the, the the subtitles 
gave it away. 

413
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:14,840
Yeah, we're like, oh, that's not
Largent. 

414
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,320
He's not Largent. 
It's coming later, I guess. 

415
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,720
Or maybe they won't use him at 
all. 

416
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,760
It's not the biggest role ever, 
but, well, he's a really big man

417
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,000
anyway. 
We get into even the little 

418
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,120
rules we're. 
Yeah. 

419
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:31,760
Details here. 
So, so a couple of these things 

420
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,920
we mentioned in our Monday 
review, but they were so funny. 

421
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,480
I want to just make sure 
everybody hears it. 

422
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:42,400
The actor who plays cheese said 
I never ate so much Manchego, 

423
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,880
'cause you know that you have to
film these scenes like multiple 

424
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,840
times, do multiple angles. 
So like every single time he's 

425
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,760
just like slicing up another 
chunk of cheese and eating it 

426
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,560
and then doing it again, doing 
it again, doing it again. 

427
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,520
Shout out to our our friend Mark
Swan, who also ate an entire 

428
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,560
block of cheese during the 
performance of Queens. 

429
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,280
I was just talking about Queens 
in the chat, actually. 

430
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,120
That's funny. 
But yeah, Mark, he played 

431
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:13,560
Illyrio and Illyrio is a 
cheesemonger. 

432
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:18,000
And so he he just ate like Aziz 
was in awe in the audience, like

433
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,320
he's going to eat that whole 
blog. 

434
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:21,680
Is that why they call it 
audience? 

435
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,160
Whoa. 
Just blew my mind. 

436
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,200
We just learned a new word. 
Origin or made it up. 

437
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,680
Yeah, that's more it. 
We made it up. 

438
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,400
Yeah. 
So the cheese eating the cheese 

439
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,160
and the dog kicking, it's so 
funny to see the reaction to 

440
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,640
people like everybody, so many 
people are way more affected by 

441
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:46,120
the dog kick than the, the child
losing its head, which I kind of

442
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,080
get it 'cause one was like more 
visceral. 

443
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,680
You see the dog get kicked. 
It look, they made it look so 

444
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,480
realistic where the the child 
is. 

445
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,960
All you hear is the sounds. 
You know, it's a little, it's 

446
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,040
easier to just not think about 
that. 

447
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,680
But that dog kick, you couldn't 
avoid it. 

448
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,000
It happened so fast. 
You couldn't. 

449
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:08,320
Anyway, the dog is fine, y'all. 
Now, coming back to Helena, this

450
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,040
is going to be really 
interesting in the long term 

451
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,880
because maybe she saw this 
coming. 

452
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,520
Like she's obviously had dreams 
of things to come and she's got 

453
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,880
drawings and sketches that we're
going to do a deep dive on once 

454
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,600
we can decipher some of it or 
maybe get more information on it

455
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,400
somewhere. 
What did you think of that? 

456
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,960
What do you have any takes on 
that, Sean? 

457
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,840
Like what's what this means and 
maybe how the set up for a 

458
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:36,000
prophet with massive tragedy in 
her life and how that could 

459
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,880
really have a be a big deal 
going forward. 

460
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,600
And and for in case you're 
wondering, I will remind you 

461
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,360
this isn't like a set up 
question because again, she's 

462
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,800
not a dreamer in fire and blood.
So it's really just, we don't, 

463
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,440
we can't predict Helena's 
plotline in terms at least some 

464
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,040
of these intricacies and details
because that that stuff is just 

465
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,280
the butterfly effect of changing
her character is is makes that 

466
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,240
very difficult. 
Yeah, I feel like they're trying

467
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,680
to be true enough to the books 
that they won't do anything to 

468
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,040
extremes that makes sense. 
They're adding some flavor and 

469
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,320
some context and some some some 
things that are interesting or 

470
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,720
entertaining, but that won't 
change the big picture and that.

471
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,680
Sounds right. 
And I think that her prophecies 

472
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,920
quote UN quote so far have been 
sort of vague enough and even 

473
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,360
quiet enough that they're just 
going under everyone's radar. 

474
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:35,040
So I think there might it's I 
think it's possible that someone

475
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,600
might start to key in to what 
she's saying or what it means. 

476
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,560
But I think it's a stretch 
because it's like Aegon heard 

477
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,920
her say, I'm scared of the rats.
But now that I don't think when 

478
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,360
he finds out that that Jaharius 
is killed, he's like Helena 

479
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:53,640
predicted it, like he that's not
a very direct correlation to 

480
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,640
make, you know, maybe if he 
hears it was a rat catcher that 

481
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,240
did it. 
But I still think he's going to 

482
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,680
be more overwhelmed with sorrow 
and vengeance then tracking down

483
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,840
whether or not Helene is, you 
know what I mean? 

484
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,680
Maybe even if the speed was 
already in his mind to think 

485
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,240
about that, then he might go 
there. 

486
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,280
But I don't think it is. 
And I'm not sure if it is in 

487
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,560
anyone really so. 
Or at least anyone that's been 

488
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,080
present and often enough to hear
them or has power to do anything

489
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,920
about it. 
I, I, I'm more for better, 

490
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,680
worse. 
I'm more worried about her 

491
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,640
psychological wear being than 
OK. 

492
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,440
Yeah, fair enough. 
Yeah. 

493
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,320
And it's, it's, it's true that 
it's pretty hard to predict. 

494
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,320
And I definitely agree with you 
that nothing so far has shown 

495
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,320
that anyone's caught on. 
Ryan Condell did in our 

496
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,040
interview with him, hint that 
there would be some something 

497
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:45,600
along those lines. 
We're on the we're definitely 

498
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,320
keyed in to look for it. 
But I I'd have to say I agree 

499
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,840
with you that it certainly 
doesn't seem to have happened 

500
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,720
yet. 
One more thing on a on a sort of

501
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,800
a bigger, bigger picture 
analysis, it doesn't matter 

502
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,760
anyway. 
No one ever understands or does 

503
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,640
anything about prophecies. 
When they try, they do it wrong.

504
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,000
Like it just doesn't matter. 
Yeah, it's more for us than for 

505
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,840
the in world characters. 
And if they actually listen to 

506
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,000
her it would be interesting. 
But yeah, we know they won't. 

507
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,960
Like, they may listen, but they 
won't listen, you know? 

508
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,800
I can only think at one time in 
his whole world that someone 

509
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,760
heard a prophecy and did the 
right thing, which was Danny the

510
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,480
Dreamer. 
Leaving. 

511
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,160
Valeria that's the only time 
someone had a vision, understood

512
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,400
it, told someone else, and they 
did the right thing about it. 

513
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,920
I there's no other example I 
could. 

514
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,080
Think of. 
It's a pretty good example. 

515
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,720
There might be others, but 
that's definitely one, yeah. 

516
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,160
And it's one out of 30 or 
something. 

517
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,400
Right. 
Yeah, They don't have a great 

518
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,600
track record, do they? 
Yeah. 

519
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,800
So one thing I really loved 
about them passing the throne 

520
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,600
room was that it had multiple 
things that it accomplished. 

521
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,360
One, it refreshed ourselves on 
how people like this can just 

522
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,600
walk around with their heads 
down and in servant's garb but 

523
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,600
doing their servant stuff and 
people ignore them. 

524
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,040
That was was set up before and 
then continued in this moment. 

525
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:04,920
But it's also passing through 
the room. 

526
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,840
They're discussing what kind of 
king Aegon wants to be and it's 

527
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,160
all about to change. 
Like whatever king he's going to

528
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,960
be is different now. 
The full effect of his trauma 

529
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,960
and anger and revenge etcetera 
is is yet to be seen. 

530
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,040
But it's no one's going to be 
calling him Aegon the Generous. 

531
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,840
I don't think Dragonheart, 
probably not. 

532
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,120
Probably not even Aegon the 
Dragon cock. 

533
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:29,560
I don't think they'll call him 
that either. 

534
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,760
Untamable beast. 
That might be the closest that 

535
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:35,520
we get. 
Who knows? 

536
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,480
I like how Cheese tells them to 
keep their head down, both of 

537
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,920
them, and they neither of them 
do. 

538
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,800
Did you notice that Cheese looks
at Egg on a Throne 'cause I 

539
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,880
mean, he is a spectacle. 
And Blood looks at the new 

540
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,240
statue of Osiris, which that's 
cool too. 

541
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,680
I mean, you know, it looked 
neat. 

542
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,040
It's pretty recognizably him. 
He's got the crown on it, you 

543
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,560
know, like, hey Patty, how's it 
going? 

544
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,760
You look pretty good in marble. 
I guess that's probably not real

545
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,640
marble, but it it looks close 
enough, right? 

546
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,720
You know he's holding, it's 
cropped in this particular 

547
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,920
photo, but in behind the scenes 
stuff you can see better. 

548
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,240
He's holding a part of his 
Valyria model, like each 

549
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,320
person's kind of holding. 
Like he's. 

550
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Got the inaugural on OR or 
something I believe. 

551
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,440
I could not see that at first. 
Now that you describe it, it's 

552
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,360
like very clear. 
That's awesome. 

553
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:28,040
So it's interesting also to 
point out that not every king 

554
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,200
gets a nickname that sticks. 
And you know, sometimes you're 

555
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,400
trying to come up with the name 
that that's not how it works, 

556
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,560
right? 
You don't come up with a name 

557
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,600
for yourself. 
That's never how it works. 

558
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,800
Aegon didn't call himself the 
Conqueror. 

559
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,080
Megor didn't call himself the 
Cruel, right? 

560
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,560
Baylor didn't call himself 
Baylor the Blessed. 

561
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,640
Yes, you with with sufficient 
propaganda and with a good PR 

562
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,560
team, the medieval equivalent of
that. 

563
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,960
You could probably generate a 
reputation for yourself if you 

564
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,640
put the effort in. 
But like, you can't just give 

565
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,360
yourself a name. 
That's not how these things 

566
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,680
work. 
So it's just another example of 

567
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,640
of Aegon's inexperience and just
does his doesn't know what he's 

568
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,320
doing. 
He's king. 

569
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,480
He wasn't taught how to do this.
And he's he's got some positive 

570
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,760
instincts, but overall he's just
lost. 

571
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:22,680
And this is a good sign. 
You can't sit with us. 

572
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,320
So they they move through the 
room, right? 

573
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,360
They pass through and they have 
this kind of slightly comedic 

574
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,560
moment where they're like, OK, 
there's the stairs up. 

575
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,680
He's like, right. 
And they're like, OK, like, 

576
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,720
yeah, take me up there. 
Now he's like, oh, I don't know 

577
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,920
how to go up there. 
I don't know my way around up 

578
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,280
there. 
That part apparently was true. 

579
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,120
But he did know how to get up 
there. 

580
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,680
We saw him in the council room 
in the beginning of the episode 

581
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,720
in the small council chambers. 
And this is something that I 

582
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,920
find very interesting. 
And and I wonder if it's going 

583
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,840
to be what they do in the show 
to explain or maybe just to have

584
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:03,880
a fallout between these 
characters. 

585
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,480
I don't know. 
Like blood was was threatening 

586
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,840
Cheese, right? 
He's like, I'm going to just 

587
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,160
take your money and go. 
And when they were when Damon 

588
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,040
was giving him the money, Blood 
stared at the gold that Cheese 

589
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,640
was given. 
So it's kind of implied that 

590
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,160
blood might just turn on Cheese 
and take it all for himself. 

591
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,200
We'll see. 
That is not said in the book. 

592
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,920
I this is my own guess for the 
show. 

593
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,840
I don't know if that's going to 
happen in in the show or not, 

594
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,440
but I like the idea because we 
we don't know what happens to to

595
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,040
tease in the book. 
And that would explain why he 

596
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,840
just vanishes so that there are 
places switch when they go 

597
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,560
upstairs and they find the room 
that Eamon and Cole are. 

598
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,440
Eamon and Cole and Otto were 
just in. 

599
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,800
And it's kind of funny to think 
about how Otto interrupting them

600
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,080
might have saved save something 
from happening. 

601
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,200
Like if if those two walk in the
room when both Cole and Aymond 

602
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,760
are there, well, they're gonna 
lose. 

603
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,800
They're gonna lose. 
Yeah, Cole and Aymond will have 

604
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,560
no trouble with those guys. 
But if it's just Aymond, well, 

605
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,400
that would be interesting. 
If it's just Otto, well, he's 

606
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,080
toast. 
But I don't know what they would

607
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,560
do if they walk in and just 
found Otto. 

608
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,120
They would just would they kill 
him and or they take him 

609
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,640
hostage. 
That just a a what if that we 

610
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,040
don't really need to explore 
but. 

611
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,720
I I thought about that too 
because I feel like they made a 

612
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,920
point last season of showing 
Amon be a badass. 

613
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,440
They showed him holding his own 
against Kristen, right? 

614
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,280
But it's still a little 
different if he's in his room 

615
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,080
without a sword or armor or just
in a chair, and these two dudes,

616
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,560
bloodthirsty dudes, show up. 
He might take one out, he might 

617
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,760
grab a dagger, he might make 
enough noise to draw all the 

618
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,040
people in there or something. 
But. 

619
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Well, Kristen had his sword, 
Kristen definitely had his 

620
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,520
sword, and I think I think Eamon
had his sword too because Eamon 

621
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:48,480
is pretty much always with 
Aimon. 

622
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Was in there by himself. 
If Aimon had been there, OK, I 

623
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,720
think Aimon had a. 
Sword, his sword, But he's 

624
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,960
fighting. 
He's like sitting in his chair, 

625
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,520
holding it in his hand. 
It's probably in its sheath on 

626
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,160
the other side of the room. 
You know it would have been a 

627
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:01,880
he. 
Probably has time to draw it 

628
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,040
before they get to him because 
he's going to hear the door open

629
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,120
and be like, who are you? 
But anyway, yeah, who knows what

630
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:06,880
would happen? 
I agree. 

631
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,240
It would have been it would have
been tough. 

632
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,560
It would have been who knows? 
It's hard, hard to handicap 

633
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,360
that, that fight like that's. 
Why? 

634
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,680
It's kind of kind of speaks to 
Damon maybe not taking Damon to 

635
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,280
that seriously. 
If he thinks Blood and Cheese of

636
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,760
all people can go kill him, he 
must not think he's that good of

637
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,360
a fighter, right? 
That's a good point. 

638
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,440
He knows that Eamon's never been
in a real fight, so he does have

639
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,480
that going for him. 
He knows he's only ever trained 

640
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,120
like the the only real violence 
he's ever been a part of is 

641
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,360
losing his eye and then dragon 
riding against air Axe, which 

642
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,920
was kind of an accident. 
So. 

643
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,400
So it's fairpoint on Damon. 
He's wrong. 

644
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,440
Damon's wrong. 
But given on paper, Eamon 

645
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,440
doesn't look like he necessarily
would be super capable. 

646
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,040
But yeah. 
But yeah, again, Damon's wrong 

647
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,720
about that. 
It seems like Amon is kind of a 

648
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:52,840
natural and he's worked hard at 
it. 

649
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:58,120
So while they're in this room, 
the roles kind of reverse. 

650
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,520
And while Cheese is mesmerized 
by the mural of Harrenhal 

651
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,640
instead of Blood, being 
mesmerized by the statue of 

652
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Osiris. 
And blood is of course, sees 

653
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,320
coins on a map and he's like, 
oh, coins, I'm going to get the 

654
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,720
money again, another indication 
of where this guy's headed. 

655
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,920
Anytime there's money he takes, 
he takes Helena's necklace. 

656
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,280
Also. 
He's like, Yep, I'll take that. 

657
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,920
But this is this is not a son. 
You know, it's that was almost 

658
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,360
comedic too. 
It was like, it's such a trying 

659
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,840
to add comedy to this dark 
moment as we are by putting cats

660
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,840
into this episode. 
We are definitely trying to make

661
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,280
it a little friendlier. 
So I thought it made sense to 

662
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,920
frame a lot of it around Helena.
It, it focused on her face and I

663
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,960
know some people didn't like 
that because because she's 

664
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,920
neurodivergent, she had a, a 
reaction that some people didn't

665
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,280
understand. 
They're like, why isn't she 

666
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,720
screaming? 
Why isn't she? 

667
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,480
Why isn't her? 
Like to me this is totally 

668
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,920
completely cromulent, normal ish
whatever like like expected or 

669
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,640
within the range of of outcomes 
because shock is very common for

670
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,640
people to respond to trauma did.
You actually see anyone that 

671
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,400
didn't like Helena's reaction? 
Yeah, a lot of people are like, 

672
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,240
why didn't she scream? 
Why didn't she try to throw her 

673
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,080
body? 
Like, yeah, I don't agree with 

674
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,120
any of that. 
Yeah, it's silly. 

675
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,280
You could be completely, 
completely neurotypical. 

676
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,880
You could have nothing at all 
different about you. 

677
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,520
You'd be the most normal, 
average person in the world and 

678
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,719
you could have that exact 
reaction. 

679
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,360
Yes. 
Like in combat, that's like, 

680
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,800
it's thing like people go into 
shock. 

681
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,880
They yeah, like shell shock, 
whatever you want to call it. 

682
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,199
There's lots of versions of this
where it's not necessarily what 

683
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,320
you would expect, but it's it's 
very common. 

684
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,320
I think there's another thing. 
Part of the explanation for this

685
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,679
at least potentially also 
explains another thing I saw a 

686
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,120
lot of people questioning is, 
especially when they said it, 

687
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,800
why didn't they just check to 
see if it was a boy or girl? 

688
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,880
And I think the answer for that 
is that if they wake the kids up

689
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,320
and take the clothes off, 
imagine this little kid wakes up

690
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,280
with two men, knives and a 
mother, the baby's going to 

691
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480
start screaming. 
Like if they check the girl and 

692
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,720
they're wrong and now they also 
have to wake up now and it's 

693
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,840
just going to be too much noise 
and chaos and commotion. 

694
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,360
These kids don't understand that
they need to be quiet or they're

695
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,240
all going to get killed. 
Helena does. 

696
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,600
Helena understands that if I 
make a commotion here, me and my

697
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,360
kids are all just going to get 
killed. 

698
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,520
I've got to steal myself and 
protect at least one kid. 

699
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,080
That she's just got to hope that
she can save one kid. 

700
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,520
And I think that's why she was 
honest, because after they kill 

701
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,120
one kid, then they can check 
without waking it up. 

702
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,000
And if it's the wrong one, if 
she lied then they'd just kill 

703
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,200
the other one and kill her 
anyway. 

704
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,160
So I think that that's why she 
told the truth, it's why she 

705
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,840
didn't scream, it's why they 
didn't check. 

706
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,960
Her she's minimizing the damage 
by by doing what they want, she 

707
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,760
ensures that it only she only 
loses her son, which is a 

708
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,080
horrible choice. 
It's it's, it's a true Sophie's 

709
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,760
choice. 
I mean, the movie Sophie's 

710
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,080
Choice, it's the, IT is a choice
between the daughter and the 

711
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,280
son. 
And that's what makes it kind of

712
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,720
similar in that sense. 
So we've ever heard someone 

713
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:00,720
refer to it as a Sophie's 
Choice. 

714
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,440
That's why because it's, it's 
like a, it's an. 

715
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Impossible. 
Choice, an impossible choice, 

716
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,760
but a choice that must be made 
or, or you lose both children 

717
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,000
and which was part of Sophie's 
choice is she loses one or she 

718
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,720
loses both. 
And of course, in the book 

719
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:18,800
version, it's lose one son or 
both sons and the daughter. 

720
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,520
So it's even more urgent to 
minimize the damage there. 

721
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,440
And there's also the possibility
here in the show only version 

722
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,880
that she knew it was coming on 
some level, she'd already 

723
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,200
grieved before because her sense
of time is, well, her own. 

724
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,000
Whatever that means. 
I don't know what that's like. 

725
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,240
What whatever the perception of 
time you have when you're when 

726
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,600
you're a person that can 
perceive the future, sometimes I

727
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,280
don't know what that does to 
you, but she may have already 

728
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,440
processed it in part on some 
level subconsciously. 

729
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,000
I have no idea, but I think 
that's entirely possible. 

730
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,400
And what else? 
Yeah. 

731
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,640
So that's entirely possible. 
And it's also possible that 

732
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,400
there's just meta reasons, 
filming reasons why they did it 

733
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,840
this way, like having an actual 
scene where those words are 

734
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,240
spoken, where, you know, choose 
your Mama doesn't love you and 

735
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,880
stuff like that in front of 
actual real life 4 year olds. 

736
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,240
I don't know if they want to do 
that, you know, like I don't. 

737
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,040
Maybe they can. 
Maybe they can put cloth in 

738
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,720
their ears so they don't hear 
what the actors are saying. 

739
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,000
I don't know how they handle 
children on set for for extreme 

740
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,160
dialogue like that. 
Maybe they just don't have them.

741
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,520
They just don't have them. 
They do a trick where they're 

742
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,160
not even in the room at the time
when those words are spoken, but

743
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,320
you can see why. 
There's all sorts of things with

744
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,920
children and filming scenes that
have violence in them. 

745
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,240
I think you can watch the 
rehearsal and see the answer to 

746
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,000
your question there. 
I think they could film it and 

747
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,840
it would be deeply problematic 
and parents would eat it up and 

748
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,760
do it instantly. 
They would bring their kids for 

749
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,800
that opportunity. 
If anyone's ever seen the Will 

750
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,000
Ferrell bit with where is his 
daughter is playing the landlord

751
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,880
coming to get rent, they don't. 
She doesn't hold back in a cuss 

752
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,720
word with. 
This little girl Julia, makes a 

753
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:13,080
good point that the necklace is 
a particularly strong way for 

754
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,040
the show to potentially have him
get caught. 

755
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,800
That's a a keepsake that would 
definitely give it away. 

756
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,200
Not the the head, of course. 
It's an even bigger giveaway, 

757
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,120
but he might not have that. 
But he's supposed to deliver to 

758
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,680
Damon. 
That was the deal. 

759
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,120
Like he may not have it later, 
you know, he may get caught 

760
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,920
after delivering the head and he
still has the necklace. 

761
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,160
So if he's smart, he'll sell it,
but he doesn't seem smart. 

762
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,360
So also, where do you sell 
something like a where do you 

763
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,440
fence goods like that? 
Have no idea where you do that 

764
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:44,920
in the real world. 
I really don't know where you do

765
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,680
that in Westeros, in Kingsland. 
Maybe in another country, 

766
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,520
another continent, you gotta go 
to Pintos or something. 

767
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,080
Maybe someone in his line of 
work would have connections to 

768
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,280
that, I don't know. 
I suppose maybe if it's just 

769
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,240
made out of gold, like you lose 
some value if the heirloom or 

770
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,800
ornateness of it, but it still 
would be worth a bunch of money 

771
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,040
if it's just made out of gold or
has a Ruby or something. 

772
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,640
Sure. 
So yeah, we we got some egg 

773
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,760
warmers under the bed there. 
That's kind of cool, right? 

774
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:11,920
And the people are wondering 
what I'm talking about. 

775
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,480
There is egg warmers under the 
Prince and princess's bed there.

776
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,360
They've got little little cozy 
for their little dragon eggs, 

777
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,720
Jaharis and Jahara. 
And that makes you even more sad

778
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,000
for for them. 
Don't, doesn't it? 

779
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,720
I never take note of that. 
I see that now. 

780
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,240
Isn't that cool? 
Yeah, it's pretty hard to see 

781
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:30,560
even even in that. 
Yeah, I didn't notice either, 

782
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,360
Fox and Brambles pointed out in 
our Discord Surfer. 

783
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,880
And I was like, Oh my God, 
you're right. 

784
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,000
I think that's such a cool 
little detail. 

785
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,080
We know that that it's a very 
distinct shape for the egg 

786
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,600
braziers, the egg warmers and 
it's a Targaryen tradition to 

787
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,880
have eggs for for the young 
children. 

788
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,720
So it's it's really a great 
touch. 

789
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,560
Yeah, good job show for that 
one. 

790
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,360
I, I appreciate that detail very
much as well. 

791
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,120
All right, these, the Wednesday 
episodes will not be quite as 

792
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,440
lengthy as a lot of our regular 
reviews 'cause we're trying to 

793
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,640
just focus on one topic. 
And so this is roughly the 

794
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,240
halfway point. 
Certainly send us any questions 

795
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,440
you might have and he takes any 
insights. 

796
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,760
We love to hear from y'all. 
And especially with as quick as 

797
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,720
we're turning around the 
material, it's a little more 

798
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:16,440
likely than usual that we might 
miss something. 

799
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,120
You know, it's so hectic during 
the show season. 

800
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,120
We've got so many things we're 
trying to analyze with so much 

801
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,720
behind the scenes stuff and 
Helena's drawings and cool stuff

802
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,120
like that. 
We're we're trying to analyze 

803
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,640
the intro. 
It's it's there's a lot. 

804
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:29,920
It's great. 
We're having a fun time. 

805
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,920
If you want to support our 
efforts, go to 

806
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:39,440
www.patreon.com/history of 
Westeros and sign up at the 

807
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,680
level that that works for you. 
Or just go to 

808
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,240
historyofwesteros.com. 
And there's a lot of ways to 

809
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:48,560
support us there by perusing our
sponsors. 

810
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,120
Or you could just get good 
content there. 

811
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,800
You don't have to go there for 
purposes of directly supporting 

812
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,200
us. 
You go there to check out our 

813
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,040
cool content. 
Good place to have bookmarked 

814
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,960
for sure. 
All right, so on our first 

815
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,880
review and on most of our 
reviews, I like to point out 

816
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,440
that we noticed a lot of Easter 
eggs and callbacks. 

817
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,800
There's one I missed very 
directly related to this one. 

818
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,120
It's Cheese's line about knowing
the red keeps tunnels as well as

819
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,120
the shape of his cock. 
That's straight from Mushroom 

820
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,880
and Fire and Blood, that almost 
exact same wording. 

821
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,280
So yeah, that's pretty cool. 
So Mushroom was right. 

822
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,960
How did he get the exact 
wording? 

823
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,040
It was of of Cheese's doll. 
That's amazing. 

824
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,320
That's really good reporting by 
Mushroom there. 

825
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,680
It just raises his esteem in my 
eyes there. 

826
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,960
No, but seriously though, 
something I think that makes 

827
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,120
book Blood and Cheese fairly 
unique and it's pretty unique 

828
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,480
show wise too. 
But trying to come up with 

829
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,560
historical parallels for it. 
I got nothing. 

830
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,720
I really got nothing there. 
I mean, it's kind of hard to 

831
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:51,440
find because usually when you're
reading about history and 

832
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,680
murders, it's amongst Royals or 
nobles, it's almost always 

833
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,400
politically motivated. 
Someone's trying to kill someone

834
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,000
else for power. 
And that's the stuff that gets 

835
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,480
the headlines. 
That's the stuff that's written 

836
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,800
about most of history books. 
So I suspect there's maybe a few

837
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,480
more of these out there that I 
just couldn't find 'cause when I

838
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,720
was searching for it, I kept 
coming across the same things. 

839
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,560
The Princess in the Tower of 
London just kept coming up and 

840
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,840
I'm like, y'all I this one was 
definitely politically 

841
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,520
motivated. 
These are nephews of of the 

842
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,360
these are the heirs of the 
throne and under the care of 

843
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,560
their uncle, and then they 
vanish and he becomes king 

844
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,480
instead. 
It's like, hello, that's yes, 

845
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,680
it's similar in that their young
heirs killed, but it was 

846
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,240
definitely political and not 
personal. 

847
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,280
I mean, this guy wanted to be 
king, apparently, or very 

848
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,280
conveniently, they died in his 
care and he became king anyway. 

849
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,560
But yeah, there's countless 
examples of monarchs, Princess, 

850
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,520
princesses, whatever, being 
killed for a title. 

851
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:50,920
But this during a war or at the 
outset of a war, killing someone

852
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,640
for revenge is unusual to say 
the least, you know, And of 

853
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:00,440
course that's it makes sense on 
some level because there's these

854
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,840
Targaryens exist on a social 
strata that doesn't have a lot 

855
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,800
of real world parallels. 
You know, they've, they've, 

856
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,680
it's, it's hard to you got to go
to like God kings and things 

857
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,000
like that in the real world to 
find parallels to how far above 

858
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,800
they were, how powerful they 
were, how like not human. 

859
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,680
They were viewed by a lot of 
people. 

860
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,440
So maybe that's part of it. 
Just their cultural differences.

861
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,760
They think they're above 
everybody else. 

862
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,320
They, they operate on a 
different level. 

863
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,120
But still I, I can't really find
examples of you've got the whole

864
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,160
half the royal family in your 
clutches and you just kill one 

865
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,160
of them and then leave. 
You take all the political harm 

866
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,640
by doing something awful and get
none of the benefit from just 

867
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,680
wiping out the enemy. 
It's like, oh, 'cause if you 

868
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,760
kill the entire royal family, 
people will think that was dirty

869
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,960
and and cruel and violent, but 
you've won. 

870
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,520
It's over. 
Yeah. 

871
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,600
So, yeah, they might look down 
on you, but you've got the rest 

872
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,920
of your life to recover your 
your reputation. 

873
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,200
I mean, this is how a lot of 
people think of us. 

874
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,440
Like, yeah, I'll apologize 
later. 

875
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,800
Let me just win this war first, 
but in this case, it's just 

876
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:12,600
let's kill this guy and or kill 
this kid in the book version and

877
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,680
then we'll keep going with the 
war as we were. 

878
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,520
You know, just carry on. 
As of now that we're even, we'll

879
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,600
carry on about our business in 
the show, though, I kind of 

880
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,400
appreciate that it's a little 
more sensible and and and it's 

881
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,640
like, no, this is a military 
target. 

882
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:30,040
Eamond is the rider of the 
dragon that's stopping us from 

883
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,520
attacking King's Landing. 
Kill him and the entire strategy

884
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,880
around the whole war changes. 
So it just makes so much more 

885
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,840
sense to target him, even if it 
was sloppy, even if it wasn't 

886
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,440
necessarily with all those 
thoughts in mind. 

887
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,240
If only they had. 
Done that. 

888
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,240
Yeah, they had done that. 
And and but to be fair, Damon 

889
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,840
was already on that tip. 
He was like, let's go kill 

890
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,400
Veigar. 
Then they don't He he was 

891
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,200
thinking of it. 
This is the the similar thing. 

892
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,720
Just, well, kill the rider and 
then Veigar will just sit there.

893
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,040
By the way, can I, can I make a 
dig on Damon here you see. 

894
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,040
Always. 
Coward. 

895
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:07,720
Coward was he? 
He knows he needs to get Amon 

896
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:12,320
and Veigar, and he wants to do 
it, but he can't do it by 

897
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,080
himself. 
Rainey's, will you please help 

898
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,120
me? 
I'm not enough of a man to do it

899
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,040
by myself. 
I need your help to kill my 

900
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,920
little nephew. 
Why didn't he go in the tunnel 

901
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,840
himself? 
He knows those Red Keep tunnels.

902
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,560
He didn't need blood for that. 
He didn't. 

903
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,480
Well, he didn't. 
Need Jesus escorted Ranira 

904
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,520
through there like I mean. 
Yeah, he could have done it. 

905
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,360
Yeah. 
He knows his way around up there

906
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,480
better than they do. 
He was better equipped for it. 

907
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,680
Yeah. 
That's that's AI mean. 

908
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,720
You know, he's obviously showing
he's. 

909
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:38,840
Confronted Amon, he would have 
been able to beat him with Larry

910
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,000
and Steel's sword. 
Like there's another reason he 

911
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,200
should have just done it 
himself. 

912
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,680
Yep. 
Now as I said, it's revenge 

913
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,520
mostly. 
There is a political angle to 

914
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,440
it, but it mostly it's book 
version most comes off as 

915
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,200
revenge. 
The show version also comes off 

916
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,600
as revenge, but it has more of a
purpose to it and how it's going

917
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,440
to be viewed by the populace. 
We'll see. 

918
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,040
But there's a secondary angle to
it because of the succession. 

919
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,960
So let's talk about that now. 
The book version, there's very 

920
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,000
little to say because the 
succession isn't changed by 

921
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,880
Blood and Cheese. 
You still have male or it's just

922
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,800
like a well instead of a six 
year old boy is the heir, you 

923
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:13,800
have a 2 year old boy is the 
heir. 

924
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,360
That that's hardly anything in 
terms of the short term impact. 

925
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,720
It doesn't affect the Greens 
politically other than they're 

926
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:22,720
really mad at you now and you 
may have lost political support 

927
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:24,920
from houses that think your ACT 
was dishonorable. 

928
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,960
But other than that, so we can 
leave the book side for now. 

929
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,320
The show is where things are a 
little uncertain. 

930
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:38,080
Murdering Jaharis arguably makes
Eamon the air. 

931
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,440
Is it Jahara or Eamond? 
Right. 

932
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,400
Then that's a real conundrum 
because of we're not going to 

933
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,040
are they going to really have a 
female heir? 

934
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,080
That's tricky. 
Right. 

935
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:50,320
Some of them can or can they 
like well, let's review. 

936
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,920
Hang on before I want to get 
your take on this, but let me 

937
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,560
set up one other thing, which is
that back in season one, episode

938
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,240
one, even Otto wanted Renira 
because it was Damon, though, 

939
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:03,960
not because of custom. 
He's like, no, because we just 

940
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,720
can't have Damon. 
He's like, screw custom. 

941
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:06,960
We can't have Damon on the 
throne. 

942
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,960
That's just terrible. 
That's just a bad idea. 

943
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,760
That's suicidal for all of us. 
Like we we, it's better to break

944
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,440
the law and dishonor ourselves 
than have that man be king. 

945
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,560
And he might have had a point 
there. 

946
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,240
Still, that aside, the point is 
that lots of people were like 

947
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:22,640
leaving. 
Carlos was like, no, the king 

948
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,000
has an heir. 
They're like, well, who's your 

949
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,360
heir now? 
And they're like, well, it's 

950
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,280
Damon, you know, I'm like, well,
yeah, it's Damon. 

951
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,200
You know, like one person's 
like, well, how about Rainier? 

952
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,240
Like a girl? 
You know, if you want a war to 

953
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:35,480
start, that's a surefire way to 
make it happen. 

954
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,960
So think about all those 
conversations and how they're 

955
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,800
going to look now and how Aegon 
will not probably not be as 

956
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,320
nuanced about. 
He's like, maybe not be as 

957
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,240
nuanced about it or maybe not be
as open to making it politically

958
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,560
acceptable for everybody else. 
More like, no, they're going to 

959
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,160
do what I say. 
Or is he going to see the the 

960
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,320
sense in see the hypocrisy? 
But what do you think? 

961
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,240
I don't even know what I think 
Eamon's reference would be. 

962
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:02,400
He he does he does like his 
brother. 

963
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:06,160
He also doesn't seem to just be 
a massive sexist who hates his 

964
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,480
daughter. 
I don't think it's crazy for him

965
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,240
to put forward his daughter. 
I think he has no reason to say 

966
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,880
he's against Eamon's being his 
heir though either really. 

967
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,280
During war too, it's worse, 
right? 

968
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,080
Like when you have a war, it's 
like, do people what you want a 

969
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,360
four year old girl or any or a 
four year old anyone as the heir

970
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,760
to the throne during a war, you 
want an adult, especially a 

971
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,840
competent adult. 
That's often why children are 

972
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,160
passed over. 
And it's not nearly the first 

973
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,200
time we've seen it in the 
Targaryen dynasty where you're 

974
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,160
like, well, we just don't we 
it's it's just inappropriate. 

975
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:39,520
It's just wrong. 
It would be terrible for us to 

976
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,320
have the situation just like 
what Otto was saying. 

977
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,280
Sometimes we just kind of got to
fudge the law to avoid a really 

978
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,320
bad outcome. 
This is obviously a a problem 

979
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,280
with monarchy in the 1st place, 
but I I see like if you. 

980
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:53,960
One of many. 
One of many. 

981
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:59,360
But Otto's right that it's 
better to just like Juke the 

982
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,960
outcome to make sure you get a 
good. 

983
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,160
And of course he started 
thinking more along the lines of

984
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,120
gain rather than what's best for
the realm. 

985
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,600
But his initial take had some 
sense to it if you ignore his 

986
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,680
ambition. 
I mean, Jaharis kind of did the 

987
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,000
same thing, right? 
It wasn't clear if you have this

988
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,360
thing you could do to fall 
tradition. 

989
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,440
Well, let's just have a council.
Let's say that was his way to do

990
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,160
quote UN quote the at least. 
Have it be. 

991
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,560
Really established or even 
written or whatever. 

992
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,560
But yeah, but yeah. 
And it's also worth noting that 

993
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,080
I, I if there's some angle that 
he would say Jahira, that's her 

994
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,080
name, right? 
The the twin Jahira before she 

995
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:45,520
would be queen or the heir, not 
just Amon Elena, right? 

996
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,760
Like if you're going to name 
her, you got a lot of people you

997
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,120
got to name first. 
I think so. 

998
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,120
There it's it's tricky, yeah. 
The the things they've already 

999
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,760
done versus the things they 
might want to do are two 

1000
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,160
different things and what they 
can get away with. 

1001
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,720
And the fact that it's war 
changes the outcome. 

1002
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:04,640
Like naming Rainier air in 
peacetime is one thing when you 

1003
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,960
can get people used to it and 
have time to build that up. 

1004
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:12,120
But if you just in the middle of
a war, you're risking people 

1005
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,200
taking the other side, joining 
the other side because of that, 

1006
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,040
like, well, I'd rather be on the
side that has adults, you know, 

1007
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,640
that are next in line. 
Like one person, this guy falls 

1008
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,400
off his dragon and now we have a
girl in charge or a boy in 

1009
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,440
charge. 
Like that's not good because 

1010
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:26,880
who's really going to be in 
charge in that spot? 

1011
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:32,320
Who the people behind throne. 
And that itself is, you know, an

1012
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:33,840
interesting and touchy 
situation. 

1013
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,080
So it's very interesting to see 
how that's going to fall out the

1014
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,520
the long term effects of the 
succession and how that's going 

1015
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,000
to be viewed, both how Rainier's
cause has impacted. 

1016
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,040
We've already seen her in the 
trailer saying, you know, 

1017
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,120
you've, you've weakened my 
claim. 

1018
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,400
You know, like I'm a basically a
child murderer now. 

1019
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,160
You know, we were the they were 
the child murderers and now 

1020
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,080
we're all child murderers. 
You know, that's we should have 

1021
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:06,040
used this to leverage support. 
Now it's yeah, it's gonna be. 

1022
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,920
Leveraged. 
Because some people would say 

1023
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,880
this was worse. 
So you could say O2 Dragons went

1024
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,440
at it and one of them came out 
ahead. 

1025
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,280
Not everybody knows the whole 
picture there. 

1026
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,480
It's not clear that Veigar just 
swallowed air axe basically. 

1027
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,000
And it was, you know, this is 
very as well. 

1028
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,160
Obviously the four year old 
didn't. 

1029
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:25,440
The six year old didn't start. 
Something here like the six year

1030
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,240
old is more clearly innocent 
than Luceros. 

1031
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,200
Yeah, that again, it's I, I 
still feel like in a lot of 

1032
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,520
ways, at least the way it's kind
of looked at people, that what 

1033
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,960
the Blacks are doing is more 
underhanded or less honorable 

1034
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,360
than what the Greens are doing. 
Like, you know, Otto wanted to 

1035
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,480
send the Lord Commander of the 
Kingsguard to go arrest Damon 

1036
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,000
and Rainier, kind of knowing he 
was going to execute them. 

1037
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,280
That's still different than 
hiring assassins to come kill a 

1038
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,400
boy in front of her mother. 
You know, like it's still and 

1039
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,760
two dragon riders going to 
battle in the sky. 

1040
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,480
That's still at least cool, if 
not honorable compared to 

1041
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,800
assassins in the night sneaking 
into. 

1042
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:07,560
I agree. 
Yeah, it's it's underhand. 

1043
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,400
It's not what Westerosi people 
are taught of his honor. 

1044
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,280
You're supposed to meet your 
foes in the battlefield 

1045
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,080
frontally. 
You're supposed to go head to 

1046
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,920
head and see who's stronger. 
That that's Westerosi courage. 

1047
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,400
That's Westerosi honor. 
Now, there's one more thing I 

1048
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,920
want to point out that it's a 
big problem for both sides 

1049
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,160
before we move to the the Aria 
slash cats portion of this 

1050
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,560
episode, which is that there's 
so much arrogance here. 

1051
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,000
First there's the arrogance of 
thinking that they're safe 

1052
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,880
because they have Veigar and not
thinking that just ignoring the 

1053
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,240
the commoners and the servants 
so much that it doesn't even 

1054
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:38,960
occur to them that one of those 
people could have a knife. 

1055
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,760
One of people could be carrying 
poison. 

1056
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,280
Like it's pretty darn obvious 
when you think about it. 

1057
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,880
But no, they're just like, well,
we no one's, I've never, no 

1058
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,440
Targaryen's ever been killed by 
a commoner. 

1059
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,240
Why would we think of that? 
But now, Now that's in their 

1060
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:54,120
heads. 
I I don't want to take away too 

1061
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,040
much from your point, but they 
might have a little more 

1062
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,440
confidence, at least some of 
them than they would even a few 

1063
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,200
days ago because Laura is just 
fired and killed a bunch of 

1064
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,040
people and rehired you so. 
He didn't. 

1065
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,360
He didn't hire new guards, 
though. 

1066
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,120
What's that? 
But then he didn't hire any new 

1067
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,560
guards only, only servants. 
That's what they were. 

1068
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,200
That's what they were short on, 
it looked like. 

1069
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,000
Or maybe he fired some guards 
that hadn't been replaced yet. 

1070
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,440
That's possible schedules 
around, that's entirely 

1071
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,120
possible. 
That would explain some of the 

1072
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,000
lack of of guards around. 
But but I think just they 

1073
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,840
didn't, they weren't that 
worried about it and they got 

1074
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,200
slacked just like their slack on
the city watch and the slack on 

1075
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,080
the there's a lot of arrogance 
here and just not doing the 

1076
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:31,640
work. 
And it it's not just one 

1077
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,040
example. 
If it was just the one example 

1078
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,360
of being sloppy with the guards 
in the castle, that would be 

1079
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,680
like, they'll be like, oh, 
they're just, that's just a Deus

1080
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,440
Ex machina. 
They just took the guards away 

1081
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,720
to make the scene happen. 
But no, there's lots of examples

1082
00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:43,720
of their sloppiness of their 
arrogance, of their 

1083
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:46,520
unpreparedness for this And now.
But on the other side, the 

1084
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,360
arrogance is Damon. 
Damon has the arrogance of a 

1085
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,880
Jaime Lannister here, which is 
he doesn't care about what other

1086
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,840
people think. 
And you should often, especially

1087
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,240
when it's comes to politics, 
he's like, oh, he's not even 

1088
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:03,120
considering the, the how it 
makes them look to do this 

1089
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,960
murder. 
He wasn't considering. 

1090
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,520
Well, what happens if they do 
don't kill Amon and kill one of 

1091
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:08,800
the kids? 
He didn't think that through it 

1092
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,160
all. 
Or if he did, he did not 

1093
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,840
consider the consequences and 
how bad that looks 'cause he's, 

1094
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,800
he's very arrogant. 
He's like, well, the lion does 

1095
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:16,840
not consider concern itself with
the opinions of the sheep. 

1096
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:21,160
Well, you, you should be like 
mushrooms, said the rats can. 

1097
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,080
Rats can kill a person, you 
know. 

1098
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,840
Bernara didn't say I want a son,
any son. 

1099
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,600
I don't care, she said. 
I want Amon Targaryen. 

1100
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,040
Yeah, she was very. 
Specific and Damon just doing 

1101
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,920
whatever he wants. 
He just wants revenge. 

1102
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,400
He wants to take action. 
He wants to be violent. 

1103
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,120
He's not thinking about the 
political implications or 

1104
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,800
justice or anything else. 
Right. 

1105
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,640
Yeah, He's just like I'm finally
I get to go do something. 

1106
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,520
I get to kill and and and take 
action. 

1107
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,400
I get to hurt Otto. 
I get to. 

1108
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:49,600
I get to strike them back. 
Yeah. 

1109
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:50,920
For what they've did. 
Did to us. 

1110
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,360
Yeah. 
He's just chomping at the bit 

1111
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,160
for revenge. 
Champing at the bit for revenge.

1112
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,800
I'm never going to. 
I'm always going to have to give

1113
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,400
both takes. 
Champing and chomping. 

1114
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,120
It's they're always they they, 
they always come together. 

1115
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,640
You can't separate them Champing
and. 

1116
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,200
Chomping both sides. 
I always come out. 

1117
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,360
On top, I always come out on 
top. 

1118
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,200
I wanted to. 
There was another like line of 

1119
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,240
thought that I had about the 
culmination of the Blood and 

1120
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:18,800
Cheese bit with Helena. 1-2 or 
two or three points here. 

1121
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,040
One at some are kind of 
interconnected to other stuff 

1122
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,880
we're saying. 
As Helena left that room and was

1123
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,440
walking down the halls, there 
weren't any more guards there. 

1124
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,040
Like I don't know how many 
guards, Kingsguard or otherwise.

1125
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,080
That's been consistent in in all
the other scenes. 

1126
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,360
We've seen so many scenes in 
that in those like hallways and 

1127
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,000
rooms, there's there's never 
guards there. 

1128
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,640
But that might add to your point
that they're arrogant and or 

1129
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,440
disorganized and or shorts that 
whatever it is. 

1130
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,040
And I also thought it was 
interesting. 

1131
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,600
I had a different take. 
I think some people thought that

1132
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,360
she like saw someone or 
something in the hall at some 

1133
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,520
point. 
But I think I mean, already 

1134
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,120
she's probably like trying to 
hold in her scream and her fear 

1135
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,680
and she's confused and doesn't 
know what to do. 

1136
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,600
But I think she got to like a a 
decision point where this 

1137
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,080
hallway goes to my husband, this
hallway goes to the guards, this

1138
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,040
hallway goes to my mom. 
I'm going to go to my mom. 

1139
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,920
I think that's what was part of 
it. 

1140
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:10,800
I. 
I think you're right, because 

1141
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,560
she kind of did hesitate, kind 
of look around and not kind of 

1142
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:14,520
just wasn't sure what way to go.
And then, yeah, she went to her 

1143
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,440
mom's room. 
That that does make a lot of 

1144
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,080
sense. 
Actually to think about the fact

1145
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:22,160
that she in that moment, she was
like, I, I'm going to my mom. 

1146
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,600
That's the safest place she 
think of. 

1147
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,400
And I, I don't know. 
Yeah, I I agree. 

1148
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,440
And another thought too, by the 
way, in the same way that she 

1149
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,080
might not want to scream because
she might draw attention and 

1150
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,080
will get these assassins to kill
herself and her kids, she 

1151
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,880
doesn't really know what's going
on in general. 

1152
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,040
She knows the whole castle's 
infiltrated, every one of her 

1153
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,120
family members has people in 
there with knives about. 

1154
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,320
You know, she might have been 
really confused and, and, and 

1155
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,000
scared about anything and 
everything that was going on. 

1156
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,480
That's a great point. 
Why would she know that there's 

1157
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,920
just this one or two intruders 
like she it's it's it might be 

1158
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,440
like upon thought it'd be like. 
Well, yeah, there probably is 

1159
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,160
just these two. 
But why is she gonna have that 

1160
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:00,680
thought? 
That rational? 

1161
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,480
Thoughts and a lot of emotions. 
And yeah, there's no way she's 

1162
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,080
gonna. 
Be and then she quickly, swiftly

1163
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,400
picks up her daughter, leaves 
the room and with haste and 

1164
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,760
silence find somewhere to hide. 
Like I, she did exactly what she

1165
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,440
was supposed to do is while 
they're distracted, take her 

1166
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:19,920
child. 
Yeah, it was the best thing she 

1167
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:20,680
could have done. 
I agree. 

1168
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,680
This is the only thing like the 
the smartest thing she could 

1169
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,680
have done. 
The wisest thing. 

1170
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:29,440
So when she gets to Allison with
her daughter in her arms, I 

1171
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,440
thought it was very interesting 
what she said There was they 

1172
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:40,520
killed the boy, not they killed 
my son or Jeharis is dead or any

1173
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,160
number of other things that she 
might have said there. 

1174
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,320
But the thing that she said, I 
felt like I, I have a lot of 

1175
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,880
different thoughts on why that 
was it. 

1176
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,320
I'm so curious to be in the 
writers room for how they 

1177
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,600
decided for those exact, that 
exact line, because one of my 

1178
00:57:55,600 --> 00:58:01,920
thoughts was it's she's sort of 
dissociating herself from what 

1179
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,560
happened. 
I, I even when I was a kid, my 

1180
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,280
younger sister, you know, you 
know, you're getting grow up. 

1181
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:09,800
You hate your parents with her, 
right? 

1182
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,120
And at some point they stopped 
being mommy and daddy and they 

1183
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,240
became mother and father, you 
know, and it's a way to 

1184
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,680
emotionally distance yourself 
from these people that you're 

1185
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,680
upset with or this. 
And maybe that's not quite the 

1186
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:22,920
way I want to say it, but but 
but from this thing that you're 

1187
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,160
having a hard time dealing with 
emotionally, right, to say they 

1188
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:30,640
killed the boy on some level, I 
wonder if it's an indication or 

1189
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,160
attempt on her part to remove 
herself from how awful what 

1190
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,920
really happened was. 
Not my son is dead, but they 

1191
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:43,240
killed the boy. 
It's also I, I think Harkins to 

1192
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,520
Amon Amon Targaryen's comment to
John about kill the boy. 

1193
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,600
Like you got to grow up. 
You got to get past your naive 

1194
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,600
ideas about the world. 
You got to take on some real 

1195
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,200
responsibility. 
You got to face your fears and 

1196
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:00,120
that and it's maybe kind of 
what's happening to Helena and 

1197
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,320
maybe Aegon. 
I think more to her husband, 

1198
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,280
yeah. 
Yeah, a lot of these kind of 

1199
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:09,520
young, born with silver spoons 
in their mouths, everything's 

1200
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,800
given to them. 
Naive about how tough this war 

1201
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,680
is going to be. 
Everyone now is like, oh, whoa, 

1202
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,160
they killed a little boy. 
We're just getting started. 

1203
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:21,560
We're going to have to grow up a
little bit here. 

1204
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,080
We're going to have to take this
more seriously. 

1205
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,800
We're going to sheds our 
innocence, you know. 

1206
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,960
And I like how it parallels 
Luceris's death at the end of 

1207
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,400
season one. 
They killed the boy. 

1208
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,640
And here we have you know, the 
death of the innocent, the death

1209
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,840
of you know more. 
How that changes rain era and 

1210
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,160
and how that yeah, like her 
change is we haven't seen it 

1211
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,000
yet. 
The full like she's evolving now

1212
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,720
after the her first major trauma
there and Aegon presumably will 

1213
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,280
as well. 
You're that's a great point, 

1214
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,800
cause and that weaves in so well
with what we discussed before 

1215
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,480
about how against looking of a 
name for himself, like what kind

1216
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,520
of king am I gonna be? 
But now, which is very boyish, 

1217
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:58,600
right? 
Like we just talked was like, 

1218
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:00,840
you don't get to choose your own
name, like, and you have to do 

1219
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,520
the things to be get to get the 
title. 

1220
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,120
Like you can't just choose the 
name. 

1221
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,760
You have to earn it, you know, 
and. 

1222
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:06,760
And so here he so. 
Yeah. 

1223
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,560
It's naive, entitled and 
impatient. 

1224
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,760
He's bringing his son to their. 
Own name right away. 

1225
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,560
Yeah, bringing his son to 
counsel, like he's not really 

1226
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,640
that good of a he's like more 
enamored with the thought of 

1227
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,840
being a dad than really being 
one 'cause he doesn't seem to 

1228
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,560
know his son that well, you 
know? 

1229
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,720
So yeah, now he's, yeah, the boy
has been killed and it's, it's 

1230
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,440
got a lot of meanings. 
That's a great, great point, 

1231
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,560
Sean. 
But what one last little thing I

1232
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,280
wonder about is if her saying 
they killed the boy might have 

1233
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:41,080
been to protect Jahara. 
Her might not realize that her 

1234
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,840
brother was just beheaded and so
she might not want to traumatize

1235
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,760
her daughter by saying hey, your
little brother just got. 

1236
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,440
Murdered. 
They killed my son or something 

1237
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,360
like that, yeah. 
She killed the boy, at least for

1238
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,000
the moment the daughter is 
protected from. 

1239
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,400
That she's not like two years 
old. 

1240
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,240
She's supposed to be, I think 6 
there. 

1241
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:58,640
So. 
So she should could, should be 

1242
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,080
able to perceive those words. 
Yeah. 

1243
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,120
So you do have to be careful 
what you say around a, a person 

1244
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:03,960
that age like, yeah, she could 
perceive some things, yeah. 

1245
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,960
We said six. 
In the book, they're six. 

1246
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,520
Oh, in the show, are they? 
Four, I'm confident they're a 

1247
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,520
little younger. 
I think they're closer to four. 

1248
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:12,880
I think you're right. 
I think con doll did say they 

1249
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,520
were four in the show. 
I think I had some sometimes I 

1250
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,360
think I once or twice I've said 
five to just kind of average it 

1251
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,240
out. 
But yeah, it doesn't really make

1252
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:21,800
that much difference in terms of
the the plot. 

1253
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:24,640
So yeah, let's that was a great 
that was great takes there, 

1254
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,960
Sean. 
Let's let's talk about Arya and 

1255
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,040
how cats might have prevented 
blood and cheese from happening 

1256
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,440
in the 1st place. 
And we start, as we often do 

1257
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,760
when we get into A Song of Ice 
and Fire material with quotes. 

1258
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,240
Hey, a quote. 
Yay. 

1259
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:42,160
The Red Keep was full of cats. 
Lazy old cats dozing in the sun,

1260
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,280
cold eyed mousers twitching 
their tails, quick little 

1261
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:50,880
kittens with claws like needles.
Ladies cats all combed and 

1262
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:55,120
trusting ragged shadows prowling
the midden heaps. 

1263
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,920
One by one. 
Arya had chased them down and 

1264
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,960
snatched them up and brought 
them proudly to Serio Pharrell. 

1265
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,320
All but this one, this one eared
black devil of a tomcat. 

1266
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,760
That's the real king of this 
castle right there, one of the 

1267
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,400
gold cloaks had told her. 
Older than sin and twice as 

1268
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,920
mean. 
One time King was feasting the 

1269
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:23,120
Queen's father and that black 
bastard hopped up on the table 

1270
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:27,560
and snatched a roast quail right
out of Lord Tywin's fingers. 

1271
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,480
Robert laughed so hard he was 
like to burst to stay away from 

1272
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,040
that one child. 
And I say two things about this 

1273
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,000
quote. 
One is I sat here fidgeting and 

1274
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,840
stuff in my lap. 
I have a pile of cat nails. 

1275
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,760
I trimmed my cat's nails. 
So I actually just a minute ago 

1276
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:52,040
was was playing with a needle, 
like cat claw as it were. 

1277
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:56,880
But two, I have had that happen 
to me not once but multiple 

1278
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,560
times where a cat has snatched 
not quail right out of my hands 

1279
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,120
in my mouth, but chicken or some
other meat, including our own. 

1280
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,200
Jakin has just recently he 
swiped. 

1281
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,000
I was reaching to my mouth with 
my food and he swapped, swiped 

1282
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:13,480
right at it. 
I think you were in the room as 

1283
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,640
he's and saw it. 
You're getting bolder. 

1284
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Just like, yeah, just like this 
so-called black bastard who was 

1285
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,360
named Valerian. 
Apparently this cat was 

1286
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,160
apparently owned by Rain E Not 
obviously not Rain E, the Queen 

1287
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:28,160
who never was, but Rain E, the 
daughter of Ilia and Rhaegar. 

1288
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,560
And this is awesome, right? 
I mean, this is this is this. 

1289
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,640
You could easily immediately see
without further explanation how 

1290
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:42,840
we got from allowing people in 
Megor's tunnels to deal with the

1291
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:50,640
rats to a much more elegant and 
less dangerous to you, the 

1292
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,920
Children of the Red Keep 
solution, which is cats, right? 

1293
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,400
The cats are a huge part of 
this. 

1294
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,400
Arya has a very early scene, I 
think it's her. 

1295
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,800
It's either her second or third 
chapter ever where she chases 

1296
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,920
this cat through the tunnels. 
It's this chapter and she runs 

1297
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,000
into both Dragon's Gulls and 
Virus and Illyria talking about 

1298
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,760
a Targaryen restoration. 
So there's this very strong 

1299
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:21,560
connection to Arya and 
Targaryen's stuff, and this cat 

1300
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:23,120
is also our connection to Blood 
and Cheese. 

1301
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:26,080
So first, let's look back really
briefly. 

1302
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,920
This is the one, a very mild 
fire and blood spoiler I said 

1303
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,680
would be in here. 
Sean, this is your 1 mild 

1304
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:32,600
spoiler. 
Here it comes. 

1305
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:36,680
It's a one of the many things 
the Greens do, but only one of 

1306
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:38,360
them. 
Like I said, and here it is, 

1307
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,560
quote. 
In his grief and fury, King 

1308
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:46,000
Aegon the 2nd commanded that all
the city's rat catchers be taken

1309
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,720
out and hanged. 
And this was done. 

1310
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,760
Sarah Otto Hightower brought 100
cats into the Red Keep to take 

1311
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,240
their place. 
We'll discuss the other parts of

1312
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,080
this later the, the, the rest of
Aegon's reign. 

1313
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,240
We have so much time to discuss 
that throughout the season and 

1314
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,240
and later we're we're going to 
focus on just this part right 

1315
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:07,280
now, mostly that parenthetical 
part, Otto bringing in the cats.

1316
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,440
The cats and I just say like, 
there's a lot of hate on Otto. 

1317
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,120
This should wipe it all out. 
It should be everyone's. 

1318
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,360
Hero, right? 
This is a great move by Otto, I 

1319
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,560
got to say. 
It's just one of his finest acts

1320
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,000
of all time. 
You know, it wasn't done out of 

1321
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:22,600
ambition. 
It wasn't done out of greed. 

1322
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:26,680
It wasn't done out of cruelty or
any sort of jockeying position. 

1323
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,240
It was just a smart solution to 
a problem that we maybe should 

1324
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,080
have thought of before. 
I mean, he had been, he's been 

1325
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,520
the head of the king for a long 
time, so, you know. 

1326
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:36,880
I thought he, I thought he did 
it just 'cause he loved cats. 

1327
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:38,120
Oh, well, yeah, there is. 
Yeah. 

1328
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:43,000
So. 
So those 100 cats, I mean, let's

1329
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:47,280
keep in mind this is a medieval 
setting. 

1330
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,600
Nobody's spaying or neutering 
these cats. 

1331
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:53,200
That's why the Red Keep is full 
of cats even, you know, 170 

1332
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:55,440
years later. 
Like, just like you aren't 

1333
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,680
getting rid of the rats, you're 
not getting rid of the cats. 

1334
01:05:57,680 --> 01:05:59,320
Now you got a lot of cats and 
this is better. 

1335
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,080
It's better to have a lot of 
cats than they just have a lot 

1336
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:03,120
of rats, that's for sure. 
And the cat population will 

1337
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:04,960
depend on the rat population 
quite a bit. 

1338
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,080
Like the more rats breed, the 
more the cats will will feast 

1339
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,680
and do their thing. 
I I seem to remember there was a

1340
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,920
section of fire and blood 
earlier under Jaharis's raid 

1341
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,360
when the Shivers was sweeping 
the land, and I wish I could 

1342
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,200
remember the lion a little 
better, but it said something 

1343
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,440
like a cat was as worth as much 
as a horse or something like 

1344
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,720
that. 
It was worth their weight in 

1345
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,800
gold. 
Yeah, because of the the rats 

1346
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,440
were carrying the plague and the
cats were were used to, but they

1347
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,000
didn't keep it as a permanent 
solution. 

1348
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,560
They didn't use them. 
They didn't keep it in the Red 

1349
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,000
Keep. 
So yes, you're absolutely right.

1350
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,880
I wrote a a Blood and Cheese 
video for for Robert in Deep 

1351
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,160
Geek and I brought that the 
shivers up there 'cause it was 

1352
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,240
also the child that died to the 
shivers amongst the Targaryens 

1353
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:50,200
was Daenerys was was actually 
Harris and Allison's first 

1354
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,720
child. 
So which had she not died, that 

1355
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,800
would have been a whole 
different since succession issue

1356
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,960
'cause she was their first 
child, not Aegon or Amon rather,

1357
01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:05,440
whose daughter Rainey's became 
part of the conundrum there. 

1358
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:11,400
And yeah, so Arya is caught when
she finally catches this black 

1359
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:14,080
cat Valerian, if you recall, 
she's she's caught by Tommen and

1360
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,880
Marcella. 
Now Tommen, of course, also cat 

1361
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,560
lover who has three cats also 
probably from the same origin. 

1362
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,400
The 100 cats that Otto brought 
in are probably those are 

1363
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:32,080
probably the the progenitors of 
Boots, Lady Whiskers and Sir 

1364
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,240
pounce like I forgot the the 
most famous one of the three. 

1365
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:41,360
And so so of course they were 
like Tom and defender of cats is

1366
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,520
like, what are you doing? 
Boy? 

1367
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,440
You know what's happening here, 
and here's what happens in 

1368
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,360
response quote. 
The old fat septum moved 

1369
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:52,120
forward. 
Boy, how did you come here? 

1370
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,840
You have no business in this 
part of the castle. 

1371
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,440
You can't keep this sword out, 
one of the red cloaks said. 

1372
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,560
Like trying to keep out rats. 
Arya So it's keeping keeping 

1373
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,400
rats out is still a problem in 
this era, but less of a problem 

1374
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,120
than it was clearly. 
Like all these scenes we see at 

1375
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:08,880
the Red Keep in a song. 
Licensed Fire. 

1376
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,480
I can't recall a rat actually 
being spotted. 

1377
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,400
Probably has maybe one or two 
there, but it's constant. 

1378
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,479
In season one of House of the 
Dragon, there's rats. 

1379
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,840
Everywhere. 
OK. 

1380
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:21,640
Yeah, there is a, you're right 
about that. 

1381
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:26,200
And of course, there's much more
to this too. 

1382
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:30,080
Arya finally finds her way out 
after hearing Virus and Illyrio 

1383
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,160
and the dragon skulls and 
sneaking around in the dark 

1384
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,319
where she can barely see. 
She exits through a drainage 

1385
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:37,760
tunnel. 
Now, it looks different in Game 

1386
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,319
of Thrones than the the version 
that Blood and Cheese walk 

1387
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:43,560
through, but I think we're 
supposed to associate these two 

1388
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,000
things, right? 
It's the drainage. 

1389
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,720
It's the way in. 
The way out is similar, and it 

1390
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,600
goes into parts of the castle 
that a highborn person kind of 

1391
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,840
forgets even exists because 
they're not going to go near the

1392
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,279
sewage. 
And that's the business of, you 

1393
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:57,880
know, the common people who take
care of that. 

1394
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:58,960
You know, it's it's beneath 
them. 

1395
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,319
And so Arya comes out of this 
smelling pretty horrible, right?

1396
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:08,240
She's unkempt and dirty, and 
that's putting it mildly. 

1397
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,359
So she definitely doesn't look 
like who she is. 

1398
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:11,960
She doesn't look like the Hand's
daughter. 

1399
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,399
And of course, this is already, 
this isn't even the first time 

1400
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:16,920
in the story, even though it's 
like one of Arya's first 

1401
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,520
chapter. 
She's already gone missing once 

1402
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,520
and come back all dirty and, and
all that, you know, with the, 

1403
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,960
with the whole thing with losing
Nymeria and and Joffrey and all 

1404
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,080
that. 
So it's already, it's already 

1405
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:28,960
happened twice to her by this 
point. 

1406
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:34,479
And and she's already called boy
by people who are when she's a 

1407
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:36,920
girl. 
Tommy and Marcella and the red 

1408
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,760
cloaks think she's a boy. 
And then here, when it comes 

1409
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,960
back around, she exits the 
drainage ditch, walks all the 

1410
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,560
way around the city, comes back 
to the front entrance of the Red

1411
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,479
Keep. 
And once again, they see her as 

1412
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,439
a boy, and she's all dirty and 
unkempt. 

1413
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:53,920
And she's like, hey, I let me 
in. 

1414
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,520
And this is what happens. 
The older scowled. 

1415
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:00,560
Who's this father of yours, boy?
The city rat catcher. 

1416
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,520
So rat catchers do exist in the 
city again, but if they were 

1417
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,480
allowed in the Red Keep, the 
guard wouldn't suggest a 

1418
01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:10,600
profession that isn't allowed in
the Red Keep. 

1419
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,160
If if his point is you don't 
belong here, he's saying you 

1420
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,320
don't live here. 
Why would you become an you 

1421
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,360
know, you can't, you don't live 
here, which is a, a place rat 

1422
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,800
catchers wouldn't exist. 
So it it's consistent in a way 

1423
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,320
that I love. 
It's a great little hidden piece

1424
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:28,400
of the world building that 
connects across these two main 

1425
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,640
stories that I find very 
satisfying that it's consistent 

1426
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:38,160
and these threads connect. 
So frankly, Arya is capable of 

1427
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:41,840
doing a lot more damage than 
blood and cheese, though of 

1428
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,560
course she's not likely to kill 
any children, but the death of 

1429
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,280
children might be why she goes. 
There, right? 

1430
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,040
I just want to say she's already
killed a child. 

1431
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:53,200
OK, you're right. 
You're right. 

1432
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:58,800
I mean, she might kill another 
child or, or six, but I, I think

1433
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,080
it's more likely what brings her
there is to kill an adult or 

1434
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:03,800
two. 
And it might be because of the 

1435
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:05,640
death of children. 
Like Cersei's already on her 

1436
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:07,840
list. 
So that's one straightforward 

1437
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:12,440
way to go there for her. 
Varus and his little birds too. 

1438
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,600
Those little birds are children 
who have had awful things done 

1439
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,520
to them. 
If Ari ever finds out about that

1440
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:23,760
virus is on notice. 
And it's fun to think about how 

1441
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,720
Arya has all the elements to 
beat Varus at his own game. 

1442
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:33,960
Not political intrigue, but the 
tunnels of the Red Keep 

1443
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,840
disguise, right? 
And she has something he 

1444
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:42,760
doesn't. 
Skin changing, right, she's 

1445
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,320
already and she also has this I 
don't know she's an interesting 

1446
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:51,680
relationship with people who 
teach children how to kill and 

1447
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,840
do things 'cause that's what the
House of black and white is 

1448
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,960
doing with her and that's what 
virus is doing with his child 

1449
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,080
slaves that he, you know, has 
people kill has them kill Kevin 

1450
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,720
and things like that. 
So there's lots of like 

1451
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,680
parallels here with how virus 
treats children and and how Ari 

1452
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,720
has been treated by the House of
black and white, which she might

1453
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:10,840
turn on at some point. 
I've I have that theory too. 

1454
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,160
I've been my head cannon is that
Aria is going to turn on them 

1455
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,400
kind of not, not like the show, 
but in a way vaguely like that 

1456
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:20,920
they'll have a falling out 
because she disagrees with their

1457
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:23,120
methods or something like that. 
It's not hard to see why that 

1458
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:24,680
would happen. 
They have pretty awful methods 

1459
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:28,440
and uncovering corruption within
the House of black and white 

1460
01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:33,600
wouldn't surprise anyone, you 
know, And here's the other big 

1461
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:35,280
advantage she has. 
This is huge one. 

1462
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,920
And I think this is maybe makes 
the point, or at least puts the 

1463
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:41,480
exclamation on it. 
Let us recall the very animal 

1464
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:44,760
Aria has begun to skin change in
as of A Dance with Dragons. 

1465
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,960
Here's a quote from the Blind 
Girl chapter. 

1466
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,760
I know that you're the one who's
been hitting me. 

1467
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,400
Her stick flashed out and 
cracked against his fingers, 

1468
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,200
sending his own stick clattering
to the floor. 

1469
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,440
The priest winced and snatched 
his hand back. 

1470
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:01,760
And how could a blind girl know 
that I. 

1471
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:04,320
Saw you. 
I gave you three. 

1472
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,440
I don't need to give you 4. 
Maybe on the Morrow she would 

1473
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:11,480
tell him about the cat that had 
followed her home last night 

1474
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:14,200
from Pinto's. 
The cat that was hiding in the 

1475
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:18,120
rafters, looking down on them. 
Or maybe not. 

1476
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,840
If he could have secrets, so 
could she. 

1477
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:24,960
It's important to note in that 
moment there that in the Shea 

1478
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,920
read it well, but it you still 
might have missed it that when 

1479
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,000
she says I saw you, that's not 
her saying that. 

1480
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,360
That's her thinking that. 
She doesn't say I saw you, she 

1481
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,680
thinks I saw you. 
And then she says I gave you 3. 

1482
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,440
'Cause I did my best effort at 
making it seem like a thought. 

1483
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,040
You did, you did it well, but I 
wanted to make absolute certain 

1484
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,040
that people got that cause most 
folks probably haven't read that

1485
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,640
line in in quite some time and 
and might not remember it. 

1486
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,040
So she's clearly skin changing 
through the eyes of a cat. 

1487
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:54,400
She's seeing the kindly man 
through the cat's eyes and is 

1488
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:56,920
obviously using her skin changer
power to do that. 

1489
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:01,680
Who amongst you thinks that she 
will only skin change of this 

1490
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,720
into this one cat and never 
again? 

1491
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,840
If you think, if you're amongst 
the group who thinks that I have

1492
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:10,280
an advance copy of the wins a 
winner to sell you once I 

1493
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,720
receive my $5000 payment, I'll 
send that to you. 

1494
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,880
Yeah. 
So yeah, obviously Aria is going

1495
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:17,680
to skin change. 
More animals and cats are very 

1496
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,520
likely. 
And the one place we know 

1497
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,040
there's a lot of cats is the Red
Keep, a place she's already been

1498
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,480
in total darkness where she 
couldn't see if she could see 

1499
01:14:24,480 --> 01:14:26,880
through the eyes of a cat. 
I know two more places with 

1500
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:29,000
cats. 
OK, tell me, tell me. 

1501
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:29,560
I'm. 
I'm curious. 

1502
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,120
It's. 
Called Sean's house and Aziz 

1503
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,600
Inishaya's house. 
The house three of Westeros 

1504
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,720
household. 
There's like 7 cats between us. 

1505
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:39,360
Aria is very welcome to come 
here too. 

1506
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,880
And the cats. 
But yeah, don't bring needle. 

1507
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:45,640
Yeah, don't bring Needle. 
Yeah, you can leave Needle at 

1508
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,200
home. 
So I really think that's not 

1509
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,720
unlikely that Arya returns to 
the Red Keep, goes through the 

1510
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,520
same tunnels that Blood and 
Cheese went through that she 

1511
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:58,680
herself has already been in, 
this time with a purpose because

1512
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:01,160
she went in there by accident 
the first time and with the 

1513
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,280
ability to find her way around 
by skin changing into the cats 

1514
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,120
that are all over the Red Keep. 
And with that, she could not 

1515
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,840
only find her way through the 
tunnels, she can find any person

1516
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,760
she's looking for in the entire 
castle through the eyes of a 

1517
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,480
cat. 
Just take one cat, go around, 

1518
01:15:17,480 --> 01:15:19,440
look around, maybe jump to 
another cat, look around. 

1519
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:21,960
Like, I don't know if it would 
really go to that level where 

1520
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,520
she's just like, skin changing, 
like 20 different cats, but 

1521
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,000
really it only takes one or or 
two or three, I don't know. 

1522
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,800
But not many, right. 
It's it's all the elements are 

1523
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:32,480
there. 
She's been there before. 

1524
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:34,760
The Targaryen stuff is down 
there. 

1525
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:36,640
It could relate to Vara. 
She's already seen Vara. 

1526
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,760
She's got all the training Varus
had, but she's got the magical 

1527
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,280
bonus on top of it. 
Yeah, it's it's great. 

1528
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,640
I love how well that fits. 
And I love how well it connects 

1529
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:47,600
to to blood and Cheese. 
And here's a Kitty. 

1530
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,760
This is my boy Casanova. 
He's a very handsome buddy with,

1531
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,960
with a silver tuxedo. 
He's very well dressed. 

1532
01:15:55,480 --> 01:15:57,320
Oh yeah, so he's more docile. 
How nice. 

1533
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,320
This little guy loves to rub on 
my beard. 

1534
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,000
He head butts my beard. 
He's a beard loving cat. 

1535
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,920
If you're going to get a cat. 
You better go get one too. 

1536
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:12,640
I'll be right. 
Yes, this of all of our live 

1537
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,880
streams is the most vital to 
have a cat on. 

1538
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,120
We can't not have cats on an 
episode where we talk about 

1539
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,000
cats. 
So what do you think y'all did 

1540
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:25,560
having cats and the element of 
cats and the connection to cats 

1541
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:30,200
that help take some of the sting
out of the horror of blood and 

1542
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,640
cheese? 
Did it work or is it just, you 

1543
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,400
know, not enough? 
Is it? 

1544
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,280
I think it works. 
Cats can fix anything. 

1545
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:43,120
Cats solve all problems. 
Yeah, sure, occasionally they 

1546
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:47,080
may cause a problem, but yeah, 
you know, it'd be amazing if, 

1547
01:16:48,480 --> 01:16:52,400
you know, Bran thinks one day 
how he wants to be a knight and 

1548
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,920
how maybe if he takes over 
Hodor, he could sort of fight 

1549
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:59,480
like a knight. 
But what about Arya taking over 

1550
01:16:59,480 --> 01:17:01,200
Sir Pounce? 
That's a knight. 

1551
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:04,480
That's a cat knight already. 
She could. 

1552
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:06,440
She could take over a cat knight
and be that. 

1553
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:09,480
Oh, I had Xerxes for a second, 
but he just kept moving. 

1554
01:17:09,480 --> 01:17:12,880
Xerxes is not having it. 
Hey, Sean's got a cat now too. 

1555
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:18,480
A jet Kitty, all black like 
Valerian herself, himself. 

1556
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,760
We've got it all. 
Right, look at this. 

1557
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,680
That's a very good Kitty. 
This cat is much more open to 

1558
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:27,440
staying on camera for a few 
minutes. 

1559
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,320
And Sean's cats are well trained
from Kitten Hood. 

1560
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,320
They've been on camera at the 
end of our episode. 

1561
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,760
They're very good. 
We got a super chat from Zach. 

1562
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:35,880
Remley says. 
Hello, Sean. 

1563
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:36,920
Hello, Aziz. 
Hello, Ashea. 

1564
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:40,080
I love History of Westeros. 
Thanks, Zach. 

1565
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:41,720
Well, hello. 
Yes, thanks, Zach. 

1566
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:44,320
Appreciate that and we love you 
all as well. 

1567
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:48,400
We love going through these 
seasons with you all and you 

1568
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,560
know, we also love going through
the books with y'all, but we 

1569
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,080
haven't had anything new in that
front for a while. 

1570
01:17:53,480 --> 01:17:58,640
And the future is very bright 
for the the TV show aspect of of

1571
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,440
this fandom. 
You know, we obviously have we 

1572
01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:03,560
got some fresh news on Duncan 
Egg recently, more castings. 

1573
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:07,560
And we've planned at the end of 
the season to update y'all on 

1574
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,600
what's happening with the the 
night of the seven Kingdoms and 

1575
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:12,080
the other spin offs. 
We'll have an update on on 

1576
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:12,960
everything that's going on 
there. 

1577
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,840
We'll do it one episode of 
that's variety of discussing the

1578
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,840
what's on the shelf, what's 
being developed, the latest on 

1579
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,400
that front. 
And yeah, that's going to be 

1580
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:26,200
nice because we'll have, we'll 
have, we should have at least 

1581
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,520
one show a year going forward. 
And in some cases, maybe 

1582
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:35,160
occasionally we'll have two, not
as soon as next year, but in the

1583
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:36,360
future. 
And that's great. 

1584
01:18:36,440 --> 01:18:37,880
I'm excited. 
We have a lot of fun talking 

1585
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,560
about the show and we have so 
much more to come. 

1586
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:45,400
So I think that's it for today. 
Sean or Shay, if you have any 

1587
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:50,440
final thoughts, say it. 
But otherwise, you know, thanks 

1588
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:54,480
for coming, everybody. 
Thanks to Bran for the awesome 

1589
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:57,480
intro. 
We love our new modified new 

1590
01:18:57,480 --> 01:19:01,400
slash improved intro outro for 
House of the Dragon. 

1591
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:02,480
Bran did such great work with 
it. 

1592
01:19:02,480 --> 01:19:08,000
My mother is part of it as well.
She played some Viola and Bran 

1593
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,880
added that to the music. 
It's part of the the Symphony 

1594
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,320
that you hear. 
The symphonic sounds are partly 

1595
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,000
real Viola from my own mother 
add into that. 

1596
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,760
So that's pretty sweet. 
And we'd like the real intro of 

1597
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:24,960
the show. 
We will see some changes to ours

1598
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,800
as time goes on and we have a 
lot more content coming this 

1599
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:29,760
season. 
Y'all, we're just getting 

1600
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:30,800
started. 
It's only week one. 

1601
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:32,280
We can't wait to talk about 
more. 

1602
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:35,120
And you know, it's funny, I 
always say Valerie made us and 

1603
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,480
Valerie watch us. 
And it occurred to me that 

1604
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:40,600
that's a little perilous. 
Actually, don't rewatch Game of 

1605
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,160
Thrones right now because it's 
got spoilers for House of the 

1606
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:44,240
Dragon. 
Really. 

1607
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,280
They mentioned like definitive 
ending points, things that 

1608
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:50,520
happen, like pretty big things 
in the in the Dance of the 

1609
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:54,040
Dragons during Game of Thrones. 
I guess at the time they didn't 

1610
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,040
perceive that. 
Maybe one day that'll be ATV 

1611
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,520
show too. 
And you know, for the same 

1612
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,920
reason you can't really read a 
song about some fire right now. 

1613
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,160
It also mentions like the fates 
of certain characters. 

1614
01:20:05,480 --> 01:20:09,960
In this story, I mean, even just
like looking at the Targaryen 

1615
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,280
family tree can can kind of 
screw you up a little bit if 

1616
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:14,520
you're trying to stay unspoiled.
But I know most of you aren't. 

1617
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:18,320
But you know, it's still 
important to to throw that 

1618
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:22,200
warning out there for those of 
you who are unspoiled or have 

1619
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:24,800
forgotten. 
More likely, I think is that you

1620
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,640
have a family member or a friend
who's like, I'm going to rewatch

1621
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,720
Game of Thrones and you're like,
maybe you don't watch this 

1622
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,200
episode or something. 
I think that's the more likely 

1623
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:35,560
scenario here from our Die Hard 
listeners. 

1624
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,840
I, I have made the point about 
my, the nature of me being 

1625
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,760
unsullied is it, you know, even 
having read through the books 

1626
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,440
and read most of Fire and Blood 
and watched the show and so on, 

1627
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,440
there's a difference between 
having read that one time a year

1628
01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:52,200
ago and having read it and 
reread it three or four times 

1629
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:53,880
and written out the timeline and
studied it. 

1630
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:57,920
Because I still barely keep a 
track of the names of all these 

1631
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,400
Targaryen kids and whose dragon 
is who. 

1632
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:05,720
That's a lot of data to, to, to 
learn and associate and put into

1633
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,480
context and everything. 
And I, I'm hoping to get there 

1634
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:10,720
'cause I know there's people out
there that are way more 

1635
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:15,280
knowledgeable than me. 
Just reading at one time doesn't

1636
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,560
mean you know it, you know? 
True that. 

1637
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:20,760
OK everybody, we'll see you next
time. 

1638
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:26,560
And happy House of the Dragon 
season and Valar re Redis with 

1639
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:58,760
caution. 
None 

1640
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:38,720
the.