Hello, my fellow West dorian's, welcome back.
It is Sunday at least when we're recording, it might not be
Sunday when you're listening, but we're happy to have you,
whatever it is, you're listening.
How's it going? Shawn?
What you drinking today? It's going.
Well, I've read is drink. It's more purple.
I think from the protein Berry naked drink But it's trying to
get read for the Red Priest. Sixth Sense, makes sense or
Sameer. I appreciate the effort everyone
else does too dirty, the dirty red like him?
Yeah, the axe that's a good point, dirty ready?
Yeah. He did call himself closer to a
pink-haired. Pink wizard later on.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's funny how both mokoro and Soros get called pink priest at
some point because the red turns pink when it's out in the
elements for so long. You'd think if they're living at
Temple. They'd get fresh robes from time
to time, but when you're out and about you can talk what might
some sort of red robe sale and we should have red robes, but
instead of our usuals, we're just kind of joking, but I
wonder if there is some symbolism to the idea that I was
going to say that maybe like in the temple with their red robes,
it's easier to be true to your religion but when you go out in
the world and kind of get worn down, but both these characters
seemed at least as resolved Ever.
If not more, that's a good point.
As your goes from red to Pink, that is a really good metaphor
for the strength of their faith. How deep the red is, of course,
with mokoro, he didn't ever lose any faith but it that would
apply you could apply that to other play.
It could apply to thoreau's because he did lose it.
Then it came back although he's his Garb is still quite tattered
at this point. But you'd think as mere actually
has the best clothing manufacturer in the world that
we know of, they probably have the best red robes, the temple
and me are probably the best red robe priest that the He's come
to visit from Ashley either like damn, y'all got some nice
threads? Yeah, they got.
Nothing marish Silk and marish Lace, good stuff there, but
we're not here to talk about that.
So much as we are to talk about one particular person who of
origin from from Mirror, almost out of origin from thoreau's.
Like he has any children though, we know.
And if they, if he did have children, would they be like,
Shadow babies, too, but he's just doesn't give.
I don't know how that works, with men.
Hmm. So anyway, we'll get into that
though. Well, maybe not that but other
stuff about Thor us All this episode.
We're going to look at it, through his eyes as much as
possible, that should be fun and it also is going to obviously
reveal things about the Brotherhood without banners
about real or about Barak maybe about Melisandre because we do
some comparisons little bit to mokoro as well, but more
Melisandre than mokoro because we know a lot more about
Melisandre than the 40. Shout out to our good friend
Nina, her latest blog post is on Willis Tyrell.
The question she was given is Willis really going to be like
he's been built up to be like kind of a nice guy.
Is that really accurate is one question, are we is there
anything to read between the lines there?
So you'll want to read that. Check it out at good.
Queen Ali dot tumblr.com. 1l in a lie well this is the one that
got injured and like a he was young on his horse maybe to
Turner's have fire over a specifically, then people got
mad. But even Willis is like, I
wasn't opens fault. He was putting the tournament
too young and he's the heir to highgarden.
So this Episode is voted on by patrons.
You can join in the votes by signing up at patreon.com slash
history of Westeros. Next week, we have an episode on
blood magic. We put up several Supernatural
theme topics and the winner was blood magic.
So we'll be talking blood magic next week and that'll be a lot
of fun. Did you know?
Martin's world is so robust. No, you didn't go.
Well, have I got some topics for you.
We always like to do. Scribe the overlapping topics
that pop up when we're discussing one particular topic,
no matter how broad or pond in we get there's always
overlapped. Other topics, in our catalog is
getting big enough that we can often point you towards some of
those other topics that we've covered in the past, we will do
that at the end of every episode such as this one, an interesting
point we talked about the best of us Kyle's last week and we
pointed out that like I sell had basileus poisoned.
Yeah and rabbit near ran. A beer.
Sorry. I was in a renter beer.
He pointed out that if pycelle had that in Khyber now has that
doesn't do. Ya thing the same to think about
the good boy? Yeah.
Car bird might be inherited. All those poisons.
It was a quite a collection of poisons.
That pycelle had basically everything.
Tommy, we got to see it when Tyrion went up there and stole
something. So he perused, it all before
making off with the one he wanted.
So you're right. That is a good point.
Good call. That is why we love to interact
with y'all are deep in the material.
I guess and think of things that we don't always catch.
So the trivia question mirror is famed for a number of high
quality Goods. We just mentioned some of them
lace and silk but also carpets glass fire wine to weapons in
particular are famed to be manufactured in mere.
One of them is crossbows. That's the particularly most
famous One. What's the other one?
Bonus question, who is the only person?
We actually see wield this Weapon.
It's referred to in a few places but But only one person we see
actually wields. This other mirrors weapon up to
two questions there to answer. Is it a flaming sword?
That's a good guess. But, no, by the way somewhere, a
my readings and studies for this episode, I saw it.
There was some plants and mirror that has a healing property.
That was an interesting little connection to thoris Bringing
people back from the dead. I don't think it's a trick,
like, Melisandre mixes her real Powers.
Which Rick's just to win people over.
Don't think that's the case here.
But an interesting parallel to be drawn.
Yeah, so thoreau's, we'll just do a little setup before we get
into tomorrow, so it's the Thoreau, Saha old way used to
be. So did you know that Shawn?
I used to be so thoreau's. Before it was the authority has
George CH added the wild later. Yeah, it had a few different
names before it was settled on Cerrillos.
There was like soft arose and I think there was one other one
that I can't remember it, but it had a few iterations.
Yeah, it's not the only one that's been like that.
Cause you obviously had like Burgesses and you know, yeah,
other names. Have been tweaked over time,
that's true, which is consistent with real history and things
having different name you could kind of fit it to the way, the
real world works and that sense. So Thoreau says, mentioned quite
a lot in a Game of Thrones he is certainly not a character George
added later. In other words, he's one that
George had plans for right away. Those plans may have changed.
In fact, they likely did because George has changed a lot of his
plans. And thoris probably is not
immune to that, but that doesn't mean the original plan for
Throws has changed a lot. It might be relatively similar
to what he plotted out from the beginning.
One piece of setup. It's really important here.
We're not going to talk about show, thoreau's.
We're going to do book thoreau's, only show.
Thoris is interesting, but pretty different.
And we'll pick another time to talk about that.
When we talk about related topics to thoreau's, like
resurrection and the original plan for Catelyn and Lady
stoneheart, which changed also. And those things may relate.
But here, we're just focused on thoreau's what he's done in the
book and we'll guess at what's coming.
And asked some good questions that maybe can't be answered as
to what we might expect. Such as will he meet Melisandre?
Will he meets? And or again, things like that?
Fun stuff. But let's start at the beginning
with the Game of Thrones and then go even farther back.
Here's our first quote, from Sansa, the girls giggled over
the warrior. Priests thoris of mirror with
his flapping red robes and shaven head until the septon
told them that he had. Once scaled, the walls of Pike
with a flaming sword in hand, that's a little bit of an
exaggeration. The walls were broken by Stone
throwers and he rushed through. Reach.
But it's still an absurdly Brave.
Amazing thing to do just not quite as Brave as scaling.
The walls with a with a sword in your hand like you.
Maybe should put that in your Scabbard while you're climbing,
man. I mean, just any way you put it
in a Scabbard, the Flames going to go out, gotta do what you
gotta do, right man, you can hear you.
When you're right, you're right. Got to have that flaming sword.
It's a good thing. He shaved his head at that time
to write, but instead of Hera I'm serious, like I think that
is. Why you say someone's butt out
in the woods later, he doesn't have that luxury.
Luxury. If you could even call us love
razor and have his razor. That's right.
Even he makes that specific point and he's lost his razor
and what's funny here in this joust is the person we see him
beat his Barrack, he beats barrack in the Jazz.
Well, Santa's watching that just kind of ends up being funny,
considering they're like they become best buddies.
He does lose eventually. We're not sure to whom though
because it comes down to it. We're just all it comes down to
a final four so we don't know. Maybe it was one of those final
for the beat him. It would have been interesting.
If one of the final four that beat him was either sander
aggregor Because he has a lot of history and story has yet to
come with those two Gregor from the past and sand or more of the
future, by the way, lost and of jousting, but one, the melee.
Yes. And here is the quote about
that. Victor was the Red Priest
thorough. Samir a Madman, who shaved his
head and fought with a flaming sword.
He had Juan melees before the fire sword, frightened, the
mounts of the other Riders and nothing frightened thoreau's.
That's kind of crazy that he is one man.
I was like winning multiple melees, like meili's are really
hard to win. You got a bunch of people, just
all free for all fighting, it's got to be real easy, just for
someone to hit you and you're not even looking, you know,
knock you down or what have you to me.
Already suggests the scale of this guy and not just the skill,
but his tactics, apparently, help.
Ya. Got it, right?
Like if you think about your entering the mail and you're
like, oh God, like the guy with a flaming sores entering?
I would I would be psyched out to.
Yeah, I'll get to him later. Let me, let me pick it this easy
Target because he's also a really big.
He is not just such as the fire sword.
He's large varis. Mentions, how thorough search
would have been helpful to the plot to murder.
Robert talked about how they tried to con Robert into getting
into the melee. Thoris is a great distraction.
Thoris is waving his fire sword around like if someone killed
Robert, Who would know? Like a wouldn't be thoreau's
because Doris and Robert are friends.
But that just goes to show like he draws the eye, whether on the
battlefield, whether it's a fake battle or a real battle.
The huge man. With the Flaming sword is going
to draw the eye. Even when there's like, a
thousand people around that really helps and makes him
interesting, just by itself, when he is sent with Barak and
several other notable men to go after Gregor, and that's when
his story really gets going, that's when it becomes
meaningful and he goes from someone, that's just due to
hangs around a court, drinking and chasing girls and hanging
out with the King and fighting whenever he gets a chance, fake
fighting to One. That's got a lot of Gravitas and
with a lot of depth and has a full Arc, that is not complete.
Yet when we last see him jumping ahead.
It's with Brienne and they have a quick conversation.
You are the mirrors priest, the red wizard.
He looked down at his ragged robes and smiled.
Ruefully the paint, Pretender rather.
I am thorough Slater of mirror. I a bad priest and a worse
wizard. You're the pink for tender on
the real deal. You're the real big John, think?
No, no robes though. Hmm, you got the beard, though.
I you gotta Priestly wizardly beard.
You got that. So, there is a lot that came in
between Brianne seeing thoreau's, and Sansa seeing
Tauros and the melee and all that.
And even more before that. So we have a lot to cover, he's
not a young man and one of the reasons he's mentioned so much
early on is that he already has a well-established reputation.
Dating back to the time of King, aerys, obviously septum ordained
and heard of him Sansa hadn't. But Most everybody else had?
I mean Santa's what 12 at that point Ned certainly knew who he
was there's no evidence. He's concealed his age.
Like melisandre's surely has mokoro maybe has of kouros just
really hard to tell at some of the other red pre certain
habanero probably has a we even though we only see him briefly
it's an open question whether he is super naturally, slowed his
age or now is doing that now that the old powers of Awakened,
maybe he wasn't but now he is, it's unclear with a lot of
things about Him as a red priests that are exceptions.
When compared to the others like this one, like the age thing but
he has wielded the power of her lore.
He has the abilities, he does use magic even though he doesn't
call it magic, he calls it answered prayers but semantics
aside that might have side effects on just the use of magic
for years sitting in a desk for a long time.
Can make you lean forward. More can put little stretch your
neck, wielding, the power of real or that flame passing
through you repeatedly. You knows what that does to a
person. That's part of the aging
process. Anyway, he had completed red
priest training when he was sent to Westeros and Aries and it
takes years to learn to read the Flames, not to mention whatever
else he learned to do, while at the red Temple.
So I think we can pretty solidly.
Guess he's in his 40s, more likely mid to late 40s and early
younger wouldn't fit the timeline given that he was sent
to Westeros prior to Ares, his death, he was there before the
Rebellion. So that's the early to 80s at
the latest and possibly earlier than that, Are now in the year
301. So he's been in Westeros at
least 20 years. Probably closer to 25 maybe 30
though I tend towards the younger and cause he's such a
strong fighter and it said he goes gray while out in the
wilderness and he wasn't gray before.
It's kind of hard to say. He was already in his 50s or
something like that, if he wasn't great at all.
But one point to make is, he might have been more great than
you realize, if you have been shaving, his Casa, great boys,
and inlets and growing all these double eyes is.
The graves are yeah, good point but also you might go a little
faster and War, you know. Officer.
Yeah, yeah, that certainly happens to several people like,
theon's hair is prematurely white.
I wasn't entirely War but his violence and stress and Trauma.
And it's similar endings not to downplay those but also just
physical exertion and malnourishment just the war.
Sides is living in the woods for a year in general that time.
Period is rougher than modern-day.
Yes. You know, even in that time
period, when you don't even have the option of like a grocery
store, it's even worse when you're living in the woods and
hunting and being hunted and so on.
But I watched the brings up a question about thoreau's,
everybody. Ponder as we move forward.
Which by the way as always, we welcome your questions and
comments does thoreau's have this same.
I don't need to eat ability that Melisandre.
And presumably MacArthur has it too because he was floating in
the ocean for like a week or two and didn't die does stars also
have that ability because Melisandre doesn't need to eat
or drink. She does it occasionally just to
keep up appearances, but she doesn't need to at one point it
stated that Barak didn't need that.
Yeah, he doesn't need. I want to say, quote unquote,
everyone else is eating but not bad.
I don't know if Doris is included in the air everyone.
I don't remember good point but it does seem like they pointed
out that Barrett didn't while he didn't point out throws maybe
they don't want. Yeah that's a great Point.
She would have probably have noticed.
I mean you could still be eating for the enjoyment of it and
because he doesn't make him sick or whatever and not need to
write. He doesn't realize, he doesn't
need to hear. Ya used to always need to and
now that the old powers of Awakened and hey, that's why I
could start Razorback. Yeah, it was eating when you
didn't need it to be like he missed that class.
Is that the red Temple? He was not chasing girls again
and you look at birds like dornish.
Dame here says the amount of weight there arose loses makes
them think he does need food. Hmm.
That's a good cat. So, he is just a little
different Cut From a Different Cloth which given mirrors,
exceptional cloth production, that makes sense.
Saros in mirrors, our next section, he obviously wasn't
called thoros of mere living in me.
I would be pretty weird. It's just like I'm walking
around Atlanta being like what's up, Joe of Atlanta hazy.
Of Atlanta. Yeah, Chay of Hawaii.
Given our guests to make she was probably born in the late to 40s
early to 50s, which is around the same time as they steffon
Baratheon, Robert since Renly and Stannis is Dad.
Ty, get Lannister, which was the younger brother of Kevin and
Tywin. And then also a little before
Jerry, and who was the fourth brother that group.
So he'd be a little younger than Aries Tywin, Kevin and Jenna
Lannister around that but roughly in that age range, the
king and Westeros would be egg on the fifth when he was born,
but thoreau's was of course, born in Mirror.
Which H, which is one of the nine free cities, not subject to
the iron throne, but it's a very important neighbor and not far
away. Not quite as close as pentos,
but closer than say braavos, he was born, the eight of eight
children, but was apparently unwanted perhaps his parents
thought that actually seven is enough, but he was also a large
boy with a commensurate appetite.
So may have been kind of like having nine kids.
He was eating for two, it was kind of like having twins like,
jeez, we were already struggling to feed this Family.
Now you got this kid that eats so much that it's counts for
more than one. So Mary is a city of Plenty
though. It sits Atop The fertile Horn of
Southwest esos, were it not for the constant worrying over the
disputed lands? The region could at large could
support a huge population but Perpetual war is the norm, still
the Region's close to mirror are said to be quite prosperous.
Apparently throws his family though, didn't catch some of
that trickle down from the prosperity, at least, not enough
of it that they could feed all their children or at least take
care of them. Well, Well, mirror is a city of
Artisans known for these Goods. We mentioned during the trivia
question. Some of these guys aren't made
anywhere else in the world, but you don't just enter these
trades at will. These are still jobs that, like,
in the real world, you just can't pick up this job on your
own, the skills for this. If you go to school for maybe a
trade school, or maybe more likely in a setting like this,
your family has a little bit of a connection and they have to
pay as an apprenticeship fee. In fact, that is why Ned knew
something. Up with Gendry.
When he went to see top Oma cassava mods.
Like yeah, I just took him on. He was a strong boy and I
thought he'll make a good apprentice and heads like bull
hockey. No one.
Does that all apprenticeships are paid for and there's tons of
strong boys in flea, bottom. What's the real story here?
Similar deal here. Soros couldn't have been given
over to one of these artisans for a job because that would
have cost money and if they can barely afford to feed him, they
certainly can't pay this fee. So you got to pay to learn and
his family didn't have that money mirrors also amongst the
artifice and prosperity, it's also a city of temples and
there's no charge for giving a kid to a temple.
At least not to the red Temple, where thoris was given at a
young age given the abundance of choices.
So, lots of temples. They pick this one.
Does that suggest to y'all that this was the family.
He came from were also worshippers of real or I mean,
they if they worship a different God, they probably would have
given him to that Temple. Or am I reading too much into
what do y'all think? And I agree, but I also think
that it's also possible to look at bu multi religion worshiper
and look at him be like, well, this is the best Temple to be
given to you. I think that is possible as
well. Very good take.
I agree with that. Especially if like, your main
god, is the Drowned God or some other awful, whatever.
You know, that the red Temple will take good care of the kids.
They have an infrastructure for it or whatever nicely there,
even just nearby, or they know other people in a red Temple.
I think it is. Worth clarifying, that mirror
isn't a city of real or per se. Right?
There's many different religions and cultures all intermixed
there. Exactly.
I think there's a decent chance there.
I was also wondering if there might be some symbolism to the
idea that he's not one of the 70 that 8 goes outside, the seven.
Yeah. Good catch.
Totally didn't think of that. That's neat, note of George was
being I get in. Martin didn't make him the 9th
kid, or the fifth kid, you know. Yeah.
Good point. I like that.
I never thought of that says he Given to the temple as opposed
to Seoul as in slavery. Mirror is a slave City.
His have a slave brand slaves and mirrors supposedly branded
we as if he has a slave brand we don't know of it.
So I think this he's either softening the story and he
really was given as a slave and he just doesn't like saying that
or and his parents got some money out of it or that's just
not on the table and it was they just it's just how it works that
he was going to quote given, but it not as chattel.
But as they devoted him to real, or I Like the right word for it,
but there's something in between slave and what he is and
education and as a future and security and everything and it
still sucks. Not have your Liberty but I can
see how thorough. Smite not feel his enslavement
is as much a punishment. Yeah, not pretty.
I do. Remember you how they decide who
to Brand? Yeah.
Like what's his legal status in the city?
Like I don't think he's legal status of a slave but he might
not have been allowed to leave the red Temple either.
Yeah. Might just be like a difference
in like you if you're an actual Citizen of mirror and you're
submissive Skinner devoted to the mirror red Temple, right?
Yeah. Like oh well you're
grandfathered and is you're not a slave because you're, you
know, it might be like say that like an army where you're not a
slave, but you signed away some of your rights for a certain
amount of time and you can't just leave.
Yeah. Like it's not a car.
It's not like not like a job, you can just quit.
So it might be more like that where you've made a commitment a
box to get. You'll see Undertaker.
Here says perhaps therosis slave, tattoos on his ass.
It's possible. He has one that is not in a
visible. Pot would be hilarious, or some
glamour covering it up. You never know it's in the realm
of possibility is possible. I do Wonder, it's a question for
later. I was like, does thoreau's know
how to do glamour's. Is that a thing?
We've never seen him do one, doesn't mean he can't inquest.
That would be a Twist by the way, if his family gave him to
real or because they're devout real or assists, and he's not
very devout. But then he does eventually
become pretty devout. He's devout now he's become
devout given, he's seen well, The old Powers woken the proof
was there and he resurrected someone that's going to make a
Believer out of you especially when you're already sort of
predisposed towards it. So perhaps they didn't intend to
give him away. And anyway, this is all open
questions as to his upbringing. So at first, the temple may have
regretted accepting him, he claims to have been wild, he led
other kids his age into kitchen raids which is kind of a fun
portent of what he's going to do in the Brotherhood.
Without banners ladies rating food to give to people later,
like it's not as Musing or light-hearted.
But it is, it's got foreshadowing for what?
He does with his life later, he also gets caught with girls in
his bed, which wasn't allowed, but clearly the punishments
weren't. So severe that he stopped or
maybe just thought it was worth it.
Anyways, like that's worth it regardless, he was Brave, not
afraid of being caught, not afraid of rebelling against
Authority, which is pretty crucial for his character.
Perhaps given the lack of true parenting.
He received near the eighth of eight and giving away sounds
like he was under parented and he certainly wasn't Parented the
temple, they instructed him and raise him.
That's not Paris. On the same as parenting coupled
with his natural size his prowess and all these other
things. Yeah, I could see how he was a
handful for any person in charge of his upbringing, whatever you
want to give whatever title you want to give them.
But he was gifted to not just big and loud and capable, he
performed which may have helped him, get away with some of his
rule-breaking like. Yeah, he's obnoxious and out of
line, but he's Good at stuff. He can get away with a lot when
you're good at stuff. We've all seen that in the real
world, Ad nauseam. Thoros showed a solid talent for
flame reading and other Priestly matters, but he wasn't that
Pious but crucially he showed aptitude with languages.
Now me Rish is already not that different than common.
If you were doing a language chart, may be really close
together which is part of why the red Temple sent him West?
They were like, well this kid, those languages, he's got some
other skill, maybe they wanted to get rid of him.
That's It's not unlikely that they were ready to have him be
somewhere else. But he would have lived there
long time, probably, as long, as two decades of up to 20 years,
of living, at the temple being a troublemaker.
But also showing his aptitude and it's supposedly takes a long
time to learn to read the flame. So, that's one of the reason we
can be sure he was there for a while.
For example, Melisandre once said to Davos quote, it takes
years of training to see the shapes beyond the flames and
more years still to learn to tell the shapes of what will be
from what may be or what was even then it It comes hard hard.
You do not understand that you men of the sunset lands, she
means Westeros the, someone refer to the sunset lands.
Boris does understand. He is not a man of the Sunset
Lounge though. He has been living there.
Half his life. By the way, I interpret that to
mean it. Most I'm just still doesn't
really get it right. I think this is sort of like, a
little bit of I have this power but I don't really understand
it, but I'm going to pretend like I do.
And it's really hard, but the fact is, I don't always get it
right, even me, I don't always get it right.
That a great difference between those two Melisandre is such
certainty and therosis like, who knows?
Just trust in real, or I have faith, but I have no idea at one
point. He's like, I'm a blind fool.
I'm probably not reading this for you.
I'm trying. I see these Visions but you know
I don't always get her melisandre's like in section
four point three of the real Orest prophecy code or you know,
it says she's got down. To a particular San Anselmo.
She presented that way, right? Charlie, she's playing.
I hope Stannis is the one true. They're like mini did this?
There really are opposite ends in a lot of ways of this, it's
really neat. I love how George is presented
that and more Melisandre and thoros comparisons throughout
this episode. I also wondered like his
day-to-day life not a lot to go on there.
What it's like a mere. We haven't covered mere
individual yet. I don't know.
That would really help that much for something like this, but it
would maybe give us a little more, but he just spent most of
his life inside the temple. And really probably live in near
per se. He probably didn't go around a
lot, right? He mostly spent his time
learning and like a lot of people in University, do there,
especially people live on campus.
You don't necessarily get around a whole lot.
Need a wonders to, like, do they teach them how to fight?
Maybe the ones that have aptitude for it?
They teach or they give some further instruction.
Like, there's people like Sam who are just kind of hopeless
that fighting like there. No, no matter what, how you
teach them are. Never going to get a good at.
It's kind of a waste of time as well.
Just learn other skills. Eels, but some like, Dario's,
like, this guy's got extreme aptitude for fighting.
Maybe they developed that a bit, make him, you know, because they
do have like a battalion, the fiery hand, and yeah, although I
don't know if the existing mirror they probably do, they
definitely exist in volantis and they definitely.
So maybe that's a standard operating procedure for red
temples. So you can imagine they probably
need some guards you know someone to watch the food or the
watch, the gate or I don't know, protect the kids or whatever it
is, you know, maybe they just And the honest infrastructure of
the city of near but maybe they take it into their own hands.
Yeah. Yeah it's funny because like if
he didn't have the aptitude they might have made him a warrior
guard, but he's also on disappointed that he wouldn't
have. Maybe been that good at that
either. But so it's like no wonder
they're like send this guy overseas.
Yeah, I really wonder about his family what to do with his older
brothers and sisters as he know any of them does?
He love contact with any of them?
Does he have any contact to mirror at all?
Does he know people there? R or is it just been so long
that it's all dried up now? George left, it open for a lot
and you know, whether he'll fill it in, I don't know.
But because you can imagine he was brought to the temple as an
infant and he only knows that because they told him, yeah, it
might not even be true, right? But maybe he went there at age,
nine after his family didn't know what to do with him he may
be cause of the trouble may be like the red Temple or maybe his
way. Maybe some of those other
siblings also went there. Yeah you can imagine him still
having he doesn't talk about them much.
It seems like he probably doesn't have particular ties to
the yeah. But he doesn't talk about them.
Negatively doesn't, I don't, it's gonna want to succeed 4000
things that like a lot of very Serene religious.
People can be very accepting of just whatever the world has
dealt them. Even if it's sort of like a
crappy hand, we might call bad luck or bad parenting or
societal ills, or whatever. You see this a lot with people
of that ilk, I think of just accepting whatever it is and
maybe there is some pain and some trauma but he doesn't want
to speak to it. He handles.
It this way by just putting it in the past or just accepting it
being Zen about it. Also, it would be 30 or more
years in the past, it would go. So he may have gotten over it
and enjoyed enough. The world seen enough other
suffering to put his own in check or whatever.
On the other hand, here's the take from Nina that I think is
pretty powerful. She says, I don't get the sense
that thoris was with his family for very long given that he
barely mentions them at all, we're not in throws his head,
the way we are in melisandre's, but it's worth comparing
melisandre's, clearly, painful, memory of being sold as a slave,
which was a Time ago, we're talking like a hundred years
ago, if not more maybe and she hasn't forgotten about it.
I mean it's trauma, it doesn't just go away, right?
But were, if we were in Thor's his head, he might be having
traumatic dreams or might occasionally have something like
a vague memory of his mother or his father just barely because
he doesn't remember them very well.
Something like that. Som like an outline like saying
like Gendry barely remembering his mother you know thing like
that. You can also Imagine Melisandre
through her life experiencing more trauma.
Like yeah, constantly as a woman was a slave Created a second
hand and know who. Right, right?
Where's thoreau's was like hanging out with a king?
Getting drunk having fun? Like how can I be?
Yeah, it's it happen. Is your little easier for him to
get past the point. Good point.
Like not. Not just a man, not just a man
who found himself in better circumstances, later in life,
but a large man in a warrior culture.
Brave Warrior, like he just had people, just respect him a
little more for that, just for the way he was born.
I think also might be a reason he's drinking so much to maybe
he's trying to absolutely been side or excellent.
Yeah, I think maybe a lot of that might be trying to forget
some of these dreams. We've seen lots of people with
visions, drink to forget dare on the drunkard.
Yeah, you Melisandre. I don't even know that she can
get drunk, you know, where everybody works.
Like she doesn't eat food, like Earl, we can't make any
assumptions about anything about consumption with her or mokoro.
I kind of doubt Melisandre could get drunk but she can get high
on real or he get high on fire one of my favorite pants.
There are that have the early skill in flames and we've seen
it at least once during the novels and it's implied that
he's done it more than once. Nina says, it's interesting.
The thoris never mentions receiving any sort of vision of
ozora, high much less having been sent to find a Zora High.
Despite noting his talent for flame, reading the mirror, shred
Temple may look at things a little differently or maybe he's
just going his own way or we don't melisandre's kind of on
her own to she's doing some things kind of outside of The
scope of the general red Temple leadership but their General,
red Temple leadership through Pinero and mokoro are also
looking for as or high and they think they've found her in the
nearest. Yeah.
But so far thoreau's and Nelson either of them are on that track
males and females on these or high track.
Not on the Danny track thoris isn't on either at least not
yet. You wonder about that was it is
education. Almost when you had to include a
Zora, hi stuff. I mean, it's part of their
ancient literature, but don't know.
We also wonder about other spells.
He may have learned near the end will kind of wrap up and look
back, and say, okay, these are the Magics we've seen him use
these are magics, maybe could use, but hasn't that's a
question for ongoing. So he goes to Westeros.
Let's just go there, we can't be sure where he was when the
tragedy of summerhall occurred, but given that it was a huge
fiery. And because it was a huge event,
no matter who you are, the red Temple, and mirror, not to
mention. The other red temples would have
taken notice. I mean, attempting to wake
dragon eggs from Stone through a ritual is, after all spoken of
in the text, the red priesthood have more than awareness of have
access to it. It's part of their thing, right?
Like something Melisandre. Pete's is something we hear them
talk about. It comes up in several places.
So this timing is interesting because thoros would have been
young around, man. Then but he would have probably
been already been at the temple by then some are hopping into
59. So thoreau's would have been 10
ish roughly then good chance. He's already at the temple.
They may have considered sending one of their own red priests to
Jerry's the new king, but the war of nine Penny Kings broke
out pretty quick in his Reign and maelys.
The monstrous black fire attempted to claim the throne,
so maybe they're like. Well, let's wait and see who
wins here. And then, we'll Apparently in an
earlier draft of Dance, with Dragons, George had maelys, the
Monstrous trying to hatch dragon eggs and 2 as well by
sacrificing his own son. So yeah, again, we have this
being played around with in a city, next door to mirror that
would have been in Thai Roch, that that happened anyway, so,
Jerry's died. He had a really short range, so
maybe then they were like, all right.
Maybe now we send somebody, but we don't know when thoros was
sent. We don't know if thoris was sent
because in part they wanted to get rid of him or because they
started think, well, maybe we We should be trying to talk to this
King here. Maybe we should be getting
involved in their business if they're trying to hatch dragons
from Stone and this new king aerys is obsessed with fire.
By the way, we talk about areas is fire Obsession, maybe having
started, because of Summer haul, he witnessed his whole family
died to Wildfire and then later in life.
Becomes obsessed with Wildfire. Hmm.
That sounds like, it could be related.
That's a big Topic in our summer haul episodes.
Both of them. We have to.
I think sometimes when you say they sending thoreau's over when
they Do it or who is their leadership of?
How much of the red Temple and mirror?
What about red temples. And other places didn't they
send Melisandre? Like, I don't know how on the
same page all of them and now they might all be on the same
page more than the typical organization.
If they can see the same stuff in Flames, I can imagine it just
being one leader. Had this idea one time and it
wasn't necessarily this meeting of all the headcount.
Yeah, you know, or something? Yeah, good.
It's been one guy like. All right, I'm sending you to
like in there was like, hey, what happened to throws, like I
saw him too. Well, Gross, you know like oh
all right fine, you know, who cares?
A lot of open questions there. It's possible that we'll find
out one day. Why more about this?
But either way, Thoreau says it has a lot to do with Aries, his
love of fire. And the way that, you know,
they're looking for a trickle-down effect convert the
king, maybe he converts other a lot of other people or forcibly
convert people either way. He's, you can see, the intuitive
sense. The logic behind starting at the
top even though it doesn't work even though it works better.
The opposite way later. Starting at the bottom and
working through the commoners. But at the time, you know,
there's a certain logic to this, there's two sides to this.
If we thought it was an important task, why would they
send a guy that they were just trying to get rid of?
You know what I mean? Like, oh maybe was both.
Maybe they didn't like him, but they still recognize his
talents. Like, okay, this is perfect.
We get rid of him and put his skills to use.
It may have been both. We don't have to say.
It's one of the other or maybe again.
Maybe someone just had a vision that they're supposed to send
them as they saw him in Westeros.
I guess need to go to Westeros. It's a fun way to get rid of it.
Like I had a vision. And I didn't really have a
vision. By the way, I had another
thought. I had often.
He's pretty bold here. All these often charging at him
about us. Yeah.
And you know, will say, bold brave, but I wonder how much
maybe he's lost the will to live.
He doesn't care anymore. Like if you did, have a terrible
home life family that got rid of him, maybe he does paint.
The red Temple is being nicer than it.
Really was, but really, he's depressed, or demoralized
nihilistic. And like, I might as well die in
battle. Well, maybe he caught up from
Roberts. Yeah, thinking he has lower self
worth maybe again ending because it's like his parents got rid of
Music. Well, I'm not worth anything so
I may as well. Yeah, being drunk all the time.
Yeah. But also another piece to all
day, all that could be true and also or maybe just this thing.
Maybe he also has had a vision, maybe he knows he's going to
die, north of the wall. So way that isn't a battle at
pipe, whatever he might have this extra boldness going into
these. You know, violent moments
because he's already had a vision of how he's going to die.
Wow, yeah. On the other hand, he's so
funny. He's got a great sense of humor.
He's self-deprecating. You notice that multiple times
he laughs people like, sand or laughed in his face.
One time about being ugly and it said thoreau's laughs loudest of
all and respond. So he gets it.
He's he easy to laugh, maybe he's like the slightly depressed
comedian type. He's got a good sense of humor
behind that. He's got some pain.
He's always quick to downplay whenever someone's like, oh, the
red Wizards. Yeah, the pink, the bad pink.
Went under The Pretender, like never wants to meet up the
reputation that precedes him. Yeah, always on plays it under
the umbrella of his own faith. Even sit.
Make jokes like this. Like yeah.
Yeah, I'm not. Let the best priest ever.
You pulled a good quote example of that here.
The sum will not cease to shine if we miss a prayer to throw
surgreev mildly. I am one, who would know that's
in reference to the young boy, like a young monk saying.
You're a lawyer prayers and here, you know, and of course,
this is after they just saved this kid from being killed, so
it's really rude. Yeah.
Really. Really zealous some of the other
monks that someone else in a part is like what we just saved
your life. So I was like, I don't worry we
don't need it. Yeah let them kind of bit early
but there was like yeah I don't worry about it.
He's just he's just a kid you know in his self-deprecating man
would take that into account when he says they just wanted to
get rid of him. Nina tends to agree.
She says the yeah, he's not wrong with but you can't deny
his his amiable personality. Leti his ability to form
relationships. He's got Charisma, that's kind
of undeniable. So this is one of those things
got wrist. I can't believe you just said
that she heard that words. That's so many times this week.
So are he said, started burning people by around 280?
I would guess thoris was sent before the madness started going
to area. So I mean maybe that would be a
real way to get rid of things. Like yes, I'm gonna do that mad
king because it's A weird to send a breeze to guy who's just
openly burning people and like yeah, let's convert this guy.
I'm skeptical. That's when they did it.
Maybe they didn't know, maybe the maybe Aries is madness.
Was it took a while for the rest of the world to hear about that?
Which is possible. Maybe there was a little overlap
there, maybe there is even a rumor of it, but everyone is
automatically assume rumor of a king burning.
People is true. And especially, if some priests
or Council had already decided, they needed to send someone or
the throws needed to go on and You know, maybe they even send
him on the three-month boat trip and in two weeks later find out
this news like oh well we already sent her.
My I can easily imagine sitting him despite that or cineon
without having knowledge of it. Here's what a weird conundrum it
comes up with having knowledge through Flames.
This time for example, Mel's we talk about Melisandre pink.
So sure having such certainty and thoris having the opposite
being kind of like, yeah, I don't know, he says, I've gotten
things wrong so many times, it's weird to like imagine that as a
flame reader, we've all experienced.
Someone asked question he'd think, you know the answer but
your keep quiet cause you think you're wrong and you find out
you were right by God. I could have, I was rash.
It said something, you know, imagine that was flame reading
your like I saw that in the Flames, they didn't say anything
man. I could have been like, I just
didn't trust my flame reading there.
Whoo. Yeah, you know something just
occurred to me like roll or maybe ruler doesn't, but
Melisandre burn. A lot of people at the stake.
Yeah, yeah, well maybe are is burning people alive isn't a
turn-off to them. Maybe if it's even a turn-on
Okay. Maybe.
I wonder. Yeah, you could be don't have
any evidence to this, but I wonder if some evidence if what
is burned my effect, what or how powerful of a vision have like,
they burned the leeches and it gave her a certain type of
vision right now, our blood? Yeah.
The certain the Kings blood, if you're not, if you're burning
humans. I wonder if you get more
powerful Visions but they know it's kind of taboo.
The city of mirror will get upset with us.
If we do this for, hey, that Kings burning people throws.
Pretty good reader flame Cinema. Were there and see if you can
see anything in the human Flames.
Did this king is turning up? Yeah, they may have e, right?
I looked at it, kind of backwards, right?
I looked at as maybe a reason to delay, but they may have looked
at as a reason to accelerate like, oh he's burning people.
All right, he's on our, he's on our level.
That's a great Point. Actually, I may have may have
gotten that backwards and as well.
What is real or is MM and what is blood-magic like where is the
overlap here? Like is clearly people like
mokoro were sacrificing and Melisandre sacrificing but
what's blood magic and what is Priest of real or stuff that's
thing. We'll talk about next week, we
talked about blood magic, some of it probably has both doesn't
have to be put into neat little boxes and separated and
categorize. But it does.
It is it just over an event diagram because Melisandre is
considered a shadow binder and a red Priestess.
So I think like the, for example, the shadow babies.
I don't think that's a Red Priest thing, but it could be
because they are priestesses of Priests of God, of flame and
Shadow, and that's kind of what that thing was.
I don't know. I don't know.
But that's, yeah, that's a little out.
Wider scope today but not entirely.
It's of course, when Thor has gets to Westeros, this is when
he starts getting called thoros of myr, the of mere gets added.
So they would have hoped that his love of firewood help aside
from just burning people, he like fire in general, we started
using Wildfire for things like Heating and other stuff.
This is where we wonder what powers were available to throw
us at this point history. This is before the dragons
before the comet we know some magic was still possible.
Obviously he had read some Flames before This point because
it was part of his upbringing, so that was still possible back
then. But what about fire swords that
maybe wasn't possible back then, but is now that's an example of
thing that he could can do. Now that he couldn't do that
before he was using Wildfire, now, he's not more on that
later. But in front of Ares, I want to
use Wildfire to get close to the king and show him what else can
be done with it. I'll light my sword on fire.
Maybe even read about. This is a thing that Red Priest
used to do so he's like well I can't make my sword light the
way that the Red Priest of old can do but I Find a manual way
of doing that. So I'm guessing it started under
Aires, this was maybe a him lighting, his swords on fire or
something, Robert loved but I bet it started with Ares because
he would have thought that Ares would be the one to like this.
But how does that resonate with y'all?
Does that make any sense or think?
I'm missing something here? Maybe at the it makes sense, I
think if you saw someone do it one time and mirror here like,
whoa, how's it going? He might just thought it was
cool and always wanted to do it, but couldn't get his hands on
wildfire and houses champ. And that eventually you might
learn it was really effective in battle like in the melee is like
R. Actually, this is great.
The money's, I'm gonna keep doing this Tyrion mentions that
Wildfire on a sore can last for like an hour which most battles
don't take an hour. I mean battles, like, especially
fights like a melee. Probably doesn't take a whole
hour, although sometimes it would sometimes it would because
we hear of it happening, we hear of it going out once or twice.
It depends on what kind of a battle.
How big of a scale. This is a lot of very, but like
melees in tournaments to store an IRL took off.
It took many, that's true. Yeah.
They but they spread out more. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah we see it's
the way we envision it in tournaments and not just Game of
Thrones but maybe like on a medieval or whatever it's like
on a feel with a bunch of people standing around watching but
real melees spread out place like over many square miles
which real battles would to. So you're right like that would
all because what they were practicing for sensible which he
could of course thoris could just if the battles been going
for a while, presumably he just grabbed another sword off the
ground and maybe That was instead you light it up.
Anyway. I feel like there's a lot of
room here for this stuff. Starting under Aries, only for
it to just work better under Robert, which is very ironic
considering seem to have the, the predisposition, for all this
stuff but maybe are he's just, here's his paranoid and weird
and Doris is boisterous and just a different personality.
It makes he is more like Robert. It makes sense, he without some
of Roberts worst qualities. What some of them although with
the also notable difference that Thoreau says Changed into.
Somebody has much more admirable, whereas before he was
a lot like Robert which is not very particularly admirable.
So if it was later in the timeline, there is might have
actually been able to impress areas because he would have had
his real powers of powers. He has now like Whiting his
sword without wildfires also Booth, you know, like whoa,
that's neat. How do you do that?
But we're like 20, 25 years before he can do those things
which also really emphasizes, how long he's just been going
through. The motions is a guy who became
very jaded. David and drunk and just aimless
kind of he wasn't actually. Yeah, he got along with Robert
but he wasn't really, really get him any closer to her Lord.
And he doesn't really seem like that was part of it.
Like, yeah, we're drinking buddies but we're not like this
isn't building towards his ultimate.
Goal of converting him. It didn't seem like it was
heading. You just like a, I'm just having
a good time. That's really important.
Because when, when thoreau's has his like, Reawakening, as a
priest, it's important to realize how long he's been in
the state of vent just hanging out, drinking wine, his beliefs
aren't particularly strong, and then it just, boom snaps and
things start happening so quickly and what a huge
turnaround that must be Well, before that point happening in
the timeline, as we work our way towards that, what would have
been like? Like he would have been around
to see Tywin is hand, for example, under Aries and he
hates the Lannisters. He didn't necessarily hate them
right away but over time, there's all these things that
gave him a lot of bias against Lannister.
He's not gonna as this like, I'm a priest.
I try to be as neutral as possible about issue.
Try to try, not to take sides between, especially when it's
about a matter of violence. But he just has a lot against
the Lannisters as will see stack up over time here.
Uh, Nina says, it's also possible for us was unwilling or
unable to participate in purely politically motivated, burnings
of people. Especially, while aerys had not
accepted the Lord of Light unlike Melisandre, who was
willing to use the political burnings of Stannis has enemies
is real. Or I'd sacrifices instead, is it
actually committed himself to the religion.
So, like Thor's, can't claim these have anything to do with
real or if Aries is just doing it because he's cruel and mad.
He's like I don't there's no religious thing.
We don't want to claim this. This is no religion behind,
there's no good. Involved in this.
I mean, arguably, there's no good anyway, but still all right
Willie, there's some like it, some point this out all the
time, but like in our actual real world lives, you can't cure
cancer by burning someone alive. Yeah.
But if you could, we might have a different definition role
morality. We might look at Society a
little bit different. That's true.
That would be, that would be odd.
Yes. Robert Irvine breaks out.
As far as we know, he was neutral.
I mean the re may have looked to the red Temple for advice but
the rebellion was so quick by the time they may have
deliberated on it. The war was over or maybe he
just decided neutrality was the best policy.
And regardless of advice outside, he didn't like Ares
that much. He might not have minded being
overthrown, he's like well I wasn't getting anywhere with
this guy. Maybe I'll get somewhere with
rhaegar. Maybe I'll get somewhere with
Robert whoever else wins. After all rhaegar was prophecy
minded, he had talked about like the bleeding star and also their
stuff, so maybe he would have made progress with rhaegar.
So, maybe thirst is just like, sit back.
See what happens. Don't get involved, but he
couldn't help. But at least feel something,
take sides. When he saw those bodies laid at
the throne room, the bodies of rain, he's an egg on the
Targaryen children laid under the red Lannister.
Cloaks that Ned talks about Jamie talks about About.
Or else was there for that. Probably because he was living
in the throne room, or living in the living.
In the throne, or living in the red keep and just was therefore,
he was able to just come down and see the big moment when the
transfer of power is happening and Robert comes in and he was
very disturbed by that. Various was mad enough.
He might not hardly know where care about what some priest from
real or is doing in my word for yeah.
But maybe someone I don't know if like maybe time when or some
other some other agent of Court might have seen some value, or
some potential buying, this guy kept him fed through.
They just, you know, they recognized the red Temple, the
priests were Laura powerful organization.
He doesn't want to upset them. He doesn't care too much, so you
just keep them at arm's. Length is like, well, I don't
want to offend them, but I also don't really have Have time for
him. So kind of put up early
greenness of and things could certainly change a lot once
Robert has become king, but there's a lot in the middle
there that we don't really know like where he stood was, he did?
He see Ned's dad and brother get burned like receives a court and
see the know he probably did a great Point.
Anything about that. It Targaryen kids brought in
dead, was you cord to see the would've been his first season
with the star would have been his first burning that he saw
human burning. He saw.
But yeah, he would have maybe saw the lack of justice and just
the cruelty there and been like, yeah.
I wonder if there's any chance, he was aware of the Wildfire
hidden beneath the cities. That is not very how much pussy
or what. Yeah, what he thought, what he
knew about with pyromancers, like whether he was friendly
with the pyromancers like the he's a Red Priest to fire guy,
you know, maybe they carry their like, yeah.
Let's talk to the other fire, guys get along and you all fire
guys. Oh my God.
Hey it's just like everything else.
Like now he's a green fire guy, he's a red fire guy.
Thoris left the toaster oven on one time now you know I also
want to or what? A point doesn't Jamie asked
about Thoreau? Yeah.
Yeah, I wonder what kind of relationship Jamie thoris had.
And you know, especially if Jamie was like really frustrated
with Ares, maybe throws was also frustrated.
They were ever in each other's ears.
If maybe that's how Jamie became aware that there was all the
wire fire on around the city to thoris.
Let him know that. I think he knew I first talked
about it. I think his pyromancers talked
about it, but yeah, maybe thoris had heard about it.
I think Jamie just heard them talking about.
If I remember correctly, you started the pirate missionaries
talking about it, but But it doesn't mean throws didn't know.
He might have been around for some of those conversations and
it doesn't doesn't sound like, thoris was included in these
things because he wasn't in Aries, his favorite sounds like
with these being held at arm's length, he wasn't privy to these
things. It is possible.
He had his own relationship with the pyromancers.
That's a really good possibility there.
Yeah. To fire, guys, stick together?
Yeah, and it is right there. As we know the pyromancers guild
is close by, it's not at the red key but it's close.
It's under the great sept. Let's go forward to the reign of
Robert King, Robert drinking, buddy.
Here's a quote King. Robert was fond of me though the
first time I rode into a melee with a flaming sword.
Kevin Lannisters horse reared and through him and his grace
laughed so hard I thought he might rupture the Red Priest
smiled at the memory yeah quite a lot in common.
These two big guys who love to fight have incredible courage.
Just ferociousness drinking feasting chasing.
Women, all that stuff. They all those things in common
two, peas in a pod, in fact, someone called them two peas in
a pod, I think it was Jamie might even Tyrion, but a lot of
people have noticed their similarity.
It isn't just a line here to there.
There's multiple characters that have reflected on this little
cynical to, right? I didn't think of that.
So, just now, but I feel like Robert was a little cynical
throw. Seems a little cinnamon.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No.
Soros source of cynicism Falls away rapidly.
Like instantly when the resurrection happens but nothing
Robert didn't live long enough to have a moment like that.
If such a thing is even possible for him, he's not doesn't have
the seed of faith. That thoreau's has some of
Robert ever had anything like that.
I was interested. If it did Fall Away, came back
under lady stoneheart. He's pretty cynical again,
talking to Briana, right? Like it came back and then it
may be, is starting to fall off again, because of what they're
doing with it all great. Point more on that later, Gendry
says Tha Beaumont and thoros would argue over the price of
new swords because he would come in and buy a new sword.
But Tyrion says Robert always paid for those swords.
So, is it just throws being like Like stubborn and not wanting
Thabo to get away with this over his friend, it's kind of like a
like low-level loyalty. He's like I'm not letting rip my
friend off, you know, even though he's the king and can
easily afford this, he's like Todd was like come on man let me
get a little extra out of this. Let me Charles Augustus.
Yeah so I think that's actually a pretty important little moment
there and throws might have been cool if you actually wanted a
little extra but he wouldn't double right?
Wasn't trying to get 5% bonus. He's trying to get 100% but you
can easily see how someone would just be like, okay, whatever is
on my money. Don't care.
But Doris, you're right. Like it's a small bit of loyalty
stubbornness Justice. I think I think you put it right
there is like it's wrong to do that.
So thoris is going to say something about it.
He's not a quiet man. He's not passive.
So he says something I like that.
Like it's a very small thing was kind of small character.
Remember them like good on you Thoreau.
Still at that guy. Cheat your friends because it's
not just a king. It's it's the principle.
Yeah. And he is your friend to any
apply that same principle to like letting sand or go later on
true. He's like, no, he won his trial.
We got to believe in these trials.
These trials aren't just Showed you guys joke about these
trials. Just being show trials.
He's like, yeah, he gives him a trial, then he hangs them.
They laugh about it. Like it's all just a joke was
like like know he won his trial. We got to be serious about that.
Yeah, you're right. He takes these things seriously.
So I like that. I like that about him.
So fast, forward to the Greyjoy Rebellion.
Let's have another quotes. He liked feasts and tourneys,
that was why King Robert was so fond of him.
And this thoros was Brave, when the walls of Pike crashed down,
he was the first through the breach.
He fought with one of his flaming swords setting ironmen a
fire with every / first through the breach.
That is just wild picturing that.
I mean, Just Amazing. Just, I love it.
It's so cool. And he since he probably didn't
fight in the Rebellion, Norman may be one of the first times he
had a real fight outside of a melee, which is, you know, you
can get hurt and killed melee but like, we were trying
literally trying to kill you rather than just trying to win
and trying to kill you first, because it refers to the door
and your but people are afraid you like again.
Like you said, I'm gonna go fight somebody else.
The guy whose every swing of his sword lights you on fire whether
he connects or not, if it hits your Shield, your Shield catches
on fire, even if he doesn't penetrate your armor, your cloak
is on fire. It's like damn, that didn't
hurt, but now I'm on fire, you know?
So yeah, that I would rather fight anyone else.
They're pretty much so he probably didn't really wasn't
his actual first fight though because there were fights before
they got to Pike, like they landed on the island and fought
at the port, and then there were battles on the way.
There's, but this may have been his first Real war and let's not
forget one of the reasons. This war happened was Balon.
Greyjoy thought Robert was a weak King that people wouldn't
unite behind him. Doris is Roberts friend at this
point, like so he's not just leading maybe just some of that
suicidal. Like there's no point to life
kind of attitude but also he's representing his friend here.
That's, that's Robert. You know, he wants to do right
by his drinking buddy. You can also Imagine maybe got
pushed into it, maybe after the third battle.
Yeah. Eating up to this Siege of pyke
itself, everyone was like don't put the roasted like, okay, so
how effective his flaming sword was elsewhere?
That's true. It wasn't seen it.
Now what have I done to myself through like everybody else
would have been like a role like I want to see if he would have
been talked about a lot like LC. I wonder how he's gonna do it
like a real bad like wow he was really good.
Yeah let's put him in front. I totally agree with you show
him like he would have been the talk of the battle and he still
is just like his appearance and his fire sword.
A lot of people talk about him later like Tyrion bars.
Jamie they're just all almost like half the POV characters,
think about thoreau's, at some point.
And the thing they think about is usually his fire sword.
Is going through the walls of Pike, his bravery, or all three
because it's three things pretty much overlapping or that he's
drinks a lot. Over also has big news, has
bigness in his drink attitude and he agrees.
This may have been a sign of thoreau's as personal affection
for and loyalty to Robert. I think that's kind of under
played here under acknowledged. Quality of thoris is entire Arc
is his friendship with Robert. Because we don't see it, we
never actually see on screen, Robert and thoros hanging out
chatting talking drinking. It's all off screen.
It's all a thing of the past. Never actually see it even
though it's attested to by so many people even though they
maybe weren't great people, maybe they were great for each
other. They were friends and friendship
is a meaningful thing. It's an important thing.
Robert may have been Stars, may have encouraged some of his
negativity but he may have made him a better person in other
ways with his sense of justice and other things.
I don't know someone that may have rubbed up and robbed.
Or maybe I'm being too optimistic about it.
But anyway, Jorah was knighted for charging through the breach
behind thoreau's for his bravery there in that.
So you gotta think that if jar got knighted and Thor, has got
knighted to because he does. Wikipedia has the title of him
being a sir. He does not, he's not called Sir
therosis because he's the Red Priest or Samir but it seems
like there are the Red Priest of me.
Yeah when we hear that all the Brotherhood without banners have
been knighted by Barrack. I feel like Sir priority
knighted before. But if for some reason he was
like Chewbacca and ignored for his contributions while everyone
else is getting medals and awards and meetings, you know,
they're like Princess Leia's, putting them in thoreau's.
It's like, dude, I was first so unless that happened and I
really don't think it would have, because it's Robert like,
it's his friend, right? Yeah.
I mean, come on, maybe he rejected it the maybe he's like,
actually, I don't want to be a nighttime, not, that's that also
makes sense, but Wikipedia says he was knighted.
I wouldn't put that as a sure thing little bit of possible
dispute there. Okay, so here's another angle to
this. So this is a guy who's a little
dissolute, like, not very zealous, not even close to
zealous pretty lacks. On the priest side, the
religious side of his beliefs may be going in first and
surviving would that restore some of your faith.
What do you think? You think like we're Laura's
watching over like all these people dying around him and he
makes through what do you think? Like am I reading too much into
it or My, but it might also add to, I don't know if I'm quite
the right phrase, but I might add to his death, wish it might
add to his, it doesn't matter. Anyway, mentality like might as
well. Like, I don't know.
I live last time. I'll try it again, I could see
it. Being is nihilistic as faithful.
Hmm. Yeah, okay, yeah.
All right. Yeah, I'm not sure that's the
case but I could see I could see that.
Also, he was praised lot for it. Mike like he would have been
more his personal regard, other people's regard for him, would
have been higher after the greater billing, he rather than
the guy that just hangs out. Robert maybe wins a melee here
and there he's actually proved himself in the field and in a
culture like this, that's everything right?
Like now he's a warrior that's proven himself the way in first
at the bravest thing. You can imagine live to tell
another day fight, another day that might make him feel better
about himself. Right?
With now people recognize him when he's walking around be like
hey Sorrows, what's up, man? You know, like they're wood from
then on he's just a more popular figure.
So, maybe that would just raise his self-esteem, if that's
something. He had any issues with it.
Don't know. There's also just honest, normal
human behavior. Like the stimulus response, you
know, you you do something. You get rewarded for.
Oh, you do it again. You get rewarded.
You know? Well, okay, you're going to keep
doing that thing. So, yeah, maybe I made her some
amount of that. Maybe he thought that it went.
Well, maybe this is, this is where we're Lord wants me.
This is what we're Lord wants me to be doing stuff like this.
Like he felt alive, you know, things like that.
Mmm. Yeah.
Robert love tourneys, thoris, had a great record in them.
What are the odds that thoreau's?
As his drinking buddy was encouraging Robert in his habit
of holding lots of tournaments. I never thought about that
before this episode is like, yeah, they're ours could talking
in his ear. He's like yeah Robert, we could
do this, we could that they both just love tournament.
So like it seems like he would be part of the team in
encouraging Robert to do it, we can imagine good old boys,
reliving their Glory Days. And and when you can like just
do it again and Roberts, it doesn't care about the cost
doesn't have any is intended to any of the responsibilities.
Yeah, mine We'll have another tournament.
There was even a thoris isn't actively intentionally doing it.
He might incidentally be encouraging causing Robert to do
it more often than you would have.
Yep. He's apparently beats and or
three times with his wild fire sword in a melee.
Robert loved it every time. Here's one time where he lost we
see Geoffrey's named a tournament in a Clash of Kings.
It's a tournament of nats because the war is happening.
It's the one where Sanders. Like I'm not even going to get
in, I'm not even gonna bother someone where tommen has his
great line about Out where we are.
We're supposed to be children, we're childish.
And we're still has all that, but the year before, they had
the same name, day tournament and Davos was there.
And he saw it and here is his recollection.
He remembered the Red Priest, throw Sameer and the Flaming
sword. He wielded in the mail, a man
had made for a colorful spectacle, his red robes
flapping was Blade writhed with pale green Flames, but everyone
knew there was no true magic to it.
And in the end, his fire had guttered out and bronzy on
Royce's, brained him with a common mace.
That's one of the examples. The fire going out.
He's having his thoughts Davos is because he's just been told
the story of his Aura high and Nissa Nissa and lightbringer
about a flaming sword. And he's like I don't want to be
that kind of hero and then it makes him think of the other
flaming sword. He's seen, which is a really
excellent piece of writing there because, yeah, of course, a
person is going to think of other flaming swords.
That's a rare thing even in Fantasy Realm like this because
it makes Davos think about the difference between Mel and
Thoreau, switch, character characters that have a lot in
common that are on screen at the same time yet and he doesn't
have her depth of belief or depth of pretension.
Perhaps however you want to look at it for certain things.
So she brings a fake lightbringer which male creates
for Stannis throws does something.
That is obviously not magic. Everybody knows what there is is
doing is not MediCal by knows it's Wildfire until later when
it is Magic, but we're not quite there yet.
The Wildfire might seem kind of mystical.
It still might have a similar impact, you know.
Yeah. We know what?
See a magician might do some card trick and pull the Ace of
Spades out of your back pocket. Like you know there's not really
magic in a row but you're still impressed with how do you do
that? Yeah.
Still like you learned a little bit of your respect and Intrigue
you know, definitely. And there's yeah like wielding a
flat fire sword. Can't be just as simple as like
wielding, a regular sword but it's on fire.
It's got to be more to it and certain things that work better
in certain things. Adult and things get to watch
out for like catching your own hair on fire and training your
own horse. Certain Talent involved.
Yeah. Yeah definitely.
Yeah, so that it's not as simple as it.
Don't try this at home kids so something that really got me
thinking about just like right before we were about to start
this Stannis would have known Soros at least known who he was,
if not had some interactions with him, he would have very
aware of him. I wonder that.
How that impacted melisandre's arrival, how did he perceive her
with having? Knowing his preconceived notion
of a rare piece is throws. How different mismo.
Sandra would he have been more suspicious of her more receptive
to her because of the world's that's a great point, you
wonder? Yeah, maybe that would have been
his preconceived notion, remember that part of the way
Melisandre. Got close to Stannis was through
Solis, Melisandre, targeted her first.
And then when she was converted, then it was like they were as
like a two-pronged assault. That was both of them so that
that probably helped. That was, that was smooth of
Melisandre and you may be right as to one of the reasons why she
needed to be smooth with it. Like that was because he may
have, she may have had, he may have had preconceived note even
if melts under do Don't know who the preconceived notion was
formed based off. Like even though she may not
have known Santa's new thoreau's, but she's like, well
then if he's known any Red Priest before.
Well I'm gonna reset his beliefs here on what that means.
Incidentally how long ago at what point in Melisandre arrived
stand up a couple of years before the books.
Not not super villain so she would be aware of thoreau's
also. Yeah, she wrote about this Red
Priest. Well, maybe he's melees.
Had this play me something cute. Have you think she would you
write like be aware if she didn't know about him right
away? She would have heard about it
probably because there's plenty of these always Stannis never
brought him up to her like somebody maybe I don't know but
he's excited. I got him.
Yeah and with the rose, be aware Melisandre how where would he
be? He might not be as aware of her
time. Yeah, he might not be.
He might not be as aware of it. Probably is can imagine.
He probably has no pay me now but he was thread.
Keep when she arrived and people talked about her.
Yeah. It never gets mentioned.
But I feel like they've got to be at least Somewhat aware of
each other. Yes.
Somewhat influencing other people's perspective of each
other and real orange. And I think it falls in the
category of Ned. Never thinking about directly
about John's parentage or Aria not thinking about the iron bank
while in Bravos. It's one of those things where
George just kind of like he doesn't want people to think too
much about Melisandre and thoros until later until they met our
together or until those plot points.
He hasn't decided what the relationship is or will be or
what people would. Think of them when it right.
Maybe he doesn't want us to know.
Yeah, but absolutely, but it's something.
I my mind started spending on that.
I haven't fully processed yet, but welcome anyone in the
audience thoughts, another interesting lack from Thoreau,
says that he was not on the Royal hunt that Robert was
received his mortal wound. As friends is drinking buddies,
not unlikely that he would have been there.
That's not strange, it's not suspicious, but it's of no, it's
like, oh, he wasn't there. They had, he been there.
Maybe it would have been a little different.
I don't know Tywin. Then, you know, we have the
incident with Tyrion being Captured by Catlin which sets
off Tywin. But remember what his plan was
his plan was capture Ned. He thought he was going to
capture Ned because he thought that's an Arthur Hill.
Go dispense, Justice personally. Not the worst idea Tywin was
probably right about that but Jamie screws the plan up by
breaking Ned's leg. If it wasn't for those pesky
kids. Yeah, just that one pesky kid.
Yeah, I mean Tyrion and Cersei ruin tywin's plans.
Plenty. All that's true.
Yeah. Offeri offering, yeah, you're
right. Ned.
This is an important Point here. Ned shoes is Thoreau, says, one
of the flick five Captain's of this squad to go.
I can't, I can't stop thinking to the Lannisters this.
That's the Scooby-Doo game. Those 120 men, go out and as
they're getting ready. Varis goals Ned for not sending.
Laura says, like look, if you were going to go against the
Lannisters, you might want to put the tire rolls on your side
so that the tyrells are against the Lannisters.
And then That's better for you which is a fair point.
But Ned's argument is well I don't want this to be a this is
supposed to be Justice not revenge and if I send Loris it's
going to be that and also loras is Young and maybe isn't going
to be thinking about all the things that need to be thought
about or might not follow the instructions of these other
people who you might think he has a higher station.
Then. Exactly also a great Point.
Yeah, he may not listen to Beric Dondarrion even though it
Barracks a full Lord and is outranks.
Him loras Tyrell might not listen to me like yeah well I
don't have to listen to you. What you gonna do?
When you gonna do to me, if I ignore your orders it's one of
those things. Like what you going to do about
it? Like I don't know.
I don't know what Barrack what do about it?
Probably not much. They don't want to set the
tyrells here. Need to think through those
different perspectives. You know, Ned takes a lot of
flack for not being smart or getting the political game, but
he knows something there that beerus doesn't Varys is thinking
about the big picture politics of how this going to play out -
thinking about the actual Battlefield role.
Yes, I'm going to play you know, true that and so far as has a
point but not does too and he also knows that Taiwan's main
weapons is bribery you know as the Lannister gold is used as a
weapon, there's no chance. You're going to bribe thoris of
mirror, especially to be a Lannister, he hates the
Lannisters and Ned knows. That Ned was in the throne room
with thoreau's when those bodies were laid at the throne room, at
the Targaryen children were laid at the feet of Robert and Doris
hated it. So he's already predisposed to
be against the Lannisters and this is the man.
He's being sent against is Gregor the one who specifically
killed one of those children and other people and killed a Leah
as well. Doris already knows who he's up
against and Ned knows that thorough snows and Ned knows
that throws charge through the breach at pyke.
He's like, this guy is Battle tested, real battle where the
Knight of flowers like he joust. Well, but like to be fair,
Laura's does prove himself later but that doesn't know that at
this point, he's like he's not tested yet.
You know, his rank works against him, is like he was just
another, she was a highly talented lowborn night.
Sure. Send him along.
They could use another sword, but Laura said his, his Actually
throws things off a little bit. Even though from viruses
perspective, is rank is a huge benefit because of the bigger
picture. So yeah, it is a really
interesting point that gets called stupid.
They're like you say Shawn but Ned's got some very intelligent
angles on this actually yeah. Also if this was a jousting
competition sure send Morris but this is going to be a battle and
a field against the animal Gregor like he's not going to
follow the rules and blind up with his jousting stick.
You know he's this is look and if he sends lures and get some
killed then maybe the that might turn pie Garden against you
right rather than they might be upset with you for getting
Laura's killed, you know. Yeah.
So another aspect here need a reminds us today.
And also Roberts friendship with roses key here to like Ned
sending someone who's a friend of Robert and their speak sent
in the name of King Robert. So that's a big deal and we
decide how thoris is cares about Justice, a little bitty cares
about things being, right? Here's about righteousness a bit
even though he's lazy maybe and sloppy, whatever, he does have
things that matter to him, and this is one of them.
So yet again, another thing it's just thoris was not involved in
the politics of the realm as much either.
So, there's just been a political actor.
Here is a good person to send someone who has a personal
stake. Would not a political steak is
actually a pretty astute choice. So one of the pieces is some
super curious about when Ned instructs, those different
people to assemble, 20 men to go on this Mission, they're all
Lords with Bannerman, people kind of under their command if
you will the army soldiers sir, they're surrounded by them and
in charge of them. Where is there a supposed to get
you 20? Man.
Who's this 20? Good men.
Yeah, that's a great guy. I wonder if they're just
drinking buddies. Does he have act lights as you
made some attempt to establish it just sort of Robert give them
personal guards, you know? I yeah, it's it may be mentors
that he teaches how to fight young nights and you I don't
know. Maybe he just fail and bring 20
men like was he told to bring 20 men and did he actually go find
the 20 men, maybe just Barak brought 40.
People. Yeah, right over there.
That's this is a whole different thing.
This is like giving up like months of your life.
You know, what are your life for whatever?
Like, that's a big ask to come to someone about.
Hey, Drinking Buddies. Let's go to war against
Gregoire. Yeah.
Do you hate Gregor? So, go fight him.
We're like, wait, I hate him. I don't know.
I don't know about that, anyway. Let's take a moment to talk
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questions from folks here, Richard Seymour, says Theory
mokoro could be from a shy, the not eating thing.
And other magic stuff has nothing to do with red priests
and everything you do Shadow body.
Yeah. See that is part of why it's a
weird question because these red priests refused to put
themselves in a Apple category where they only use the magic of
real. Or they're always, they're
always learning other disciplines.
Like, Indy Indy where people like I'm an Illusionist but I
also have a little bit of a vocation and little bit of
conjuring. A little bit of necromancy has
two similar kind of thing here. George doesn't have them put in
these little neat corners or categories.
So yeah, I can see that. I feel like mokoro is from
volantis because if that's where he operates, what a shy is
certainly possible. Technically he could be not from
a shy but he could Have studied in a shy and be a shadow binder
and still be from volantis and be a both of those things would
be true. That's true.
Well, it said Melisandre of a shy but she may not be from a
shot because she was sold as a slave is to try a.
So she even in your example, earlier when you said o Buzzy's
of Atlanta and Joe of Atlanta, you're not as easy of Atlanta,
really? Because your came from
elsewhere, you you applied, you said, I was a shadow of Hawaii
and I'm like, I'm of Atlanta right now.
I would say of Atlanta, not of Hawaii, I don't think someone
has to necessarily have been born somewhere or even have
lived the first childhood Years somewhere to be of somewhere,
like, life is long and you could, you could be of somewhere
after 10, 20 years somewhere. Mmm, that's a good sign, that's
a good point. Like that, take donors Dame
says, what is this? A is though, they were both sent
off to priest from different associate religions.
I do think Areo hotah and thoros are interesting characters to
compare. Oh yes dedicated.
You know to a different faith and kind of isolated from their
Homeland. Yes around People power, you
know, Sandra life. Ultimately having a lot like
being very, observant being large guys being Warriors.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I thought of that.
A great catch during this game. Look, give leave it to dornish.
Name to bring the dornish. A true connection there.
George game also says, net is quite smart with his choices
Thoreau says, close to Robert wild and Dondarrion, our storm
land houses, which are all should also be somewhat loyal to
Robert. And Malorie has Mallory's from
Crown lands, not just avoiding Pro Lannister houses but picking
storm Landers and Crown Landers who should be Pro Roberts?
Oh yeah. Ned was not thinking like bars
but he wasn't just picking people around him.
Either. He had he had a plan.
It's true because he could have done that group and you just put
one like Lannisters loyalists in there and that person just blows
the whole thing up, it portrays everyone or it just takes one
bad choice for that that group to be terrible.
You're totally right. And that's probably what
happened to anyway because some Pro Lannister person probably
did run off from that bet scene and tells When because Tywin was
prepared for this Tywin, new because I would have to plan to,
I said, Ned had a plan Tywin. Had a plan to, they seemed well
prepared, right? They had 120 men.
They're just going after one guy, right?
I just Gregor Clegane even though he's a big man, but
here's Harlan's account, is sold to Aria a nice long quote.
Your father's leg was broken when his horse fell on him.
So Lord, eddard couldn't go west, he sent Lord Beric.
Instead with 20 of his own men and 20 from Winterfell, me among
them. There were others.
Sides thorough since their Raymond Dairy and their men sir,
glad and wild a Lord named lothar Mallory.
But Gregor was waiting for us at the mummer's Ford, with men,
concealed, on both Banks, as we crossed he fell upon us from
front and rear I saw the mountains, lay Raymond Dairy,
with a single blow, so terrible, that it took, dairies arm off at
the elbow and killed the horse beneath him to sure glad in
Wilde died. There with him.
And Lord. Mallory was written down, and
drowned, we had Lions on every side and I thought I was doomed
with the rest, but Alan shouted, commands, and restored order to
our ranks and those still a horse, rallied around thoreau's
and cut our way free six score. We'd been that morning by dark.
No more than to score were left and Lord, Beric was Gravely
wounded for us leads the retreat.
That's pretty important. It makes sense again.
Again, rally around the guy. That's the most visible on the
battlefield. That's a very useful thing.
Like yeah, the huge guy in red with the Flaming sword, go to
him a lot easier than to go to the guy in Black which guy with
who, which one is that another reason why he's really valuable
in the battlefield is also loud. Like Robert has a big loud
voice, which was very useful on the battlefield, when it's chaos
and everything is at high volume.
Lot of the great qualities. There are shown the Flaming
sword scatters enemies. So having him in the front is
really effective as well. You want the guy that throws off
the enemy on the initial charge when like Greg or someone who
throws formations off and for the retreat?
So he's going to clear a path. Yeah.
Right. His flaming sword might get
people steering, clear of behind them.
Yeah. They don't want to face that the
horses, especially don't want to face that.
And the horses that are on your side, maybe are used to it
because they've seen it a few times.
Whereas the horses on the enemy side or like a flaming sword
scary and not too scary cuz I mean horses are used to Torches
and stuff. That's not like they haven't
seen fire on a regular basis. But still something scary about
that big green, flaming sword. Because lots of horses, throw
their Riders we've seen that and not to mention, he's just big
and ferocious and strong. I mean, that's, you know what?
That is Tough Enough To Face this battle really nasty and
this leads to directly to the Brotherhood without banners.
This super important thing about, they left, the keep on
the mission from the King and they're like, wait a minute,
now, we're ready. It's so backwards so strange.
And so unlike the experience of almost all the rest of the
characters in the series, and it's not just throws.
Here, we have another nice, lengthy, quote to describe the
experience for the group, you are.
So few that all we could do was Harry their rear.
But we told each other that we join up with King Robert, when
he marks west across Lord, tywin's Rebellion, only, then we
heard that Robert was dead and Lord eddard as well and Cersei
Lannister as well. Pedis ended the Iron Throne that
turned the whole world. Hold on its head, we'd been sent
out by the Kings hand, to deal with Outlaws.
You see. Now we were the Outlaws and
Lord, Tywin was handed the king. There was some wanted to yield
then, but for Derek wouldn't hear of it.
We were still Kingsman. He said, and these were the
Kings people, the lions were Scavenging, if we could not
fight for Robert, we would fight for them.
So, every man of us was dead and so we did.
But as we fought something queer happened.
Every man, we lost two showed up to take his place, a few more
nights or Squires of gentle. Birth.
But most were common field hands and Fiddler's an innkeepers
servants and shoemakers. Even to substance men of all
sorts and women to Children dogs.
Gregor's. Ambush party was just the
advance of tywin's entire Army. But yourself in thoros of
mirrors perspective, here, they're going out to do King's
Justice in the name of his good friend.
Robert all of a sudden they're ambushed two thirds of their men
are killed. A lot of thoris is Friends
probably in that group. So it's personal at this point,
but they're still about King Justice, right?
And they're like, oh my God, this isn't just an ambush.
This is a full-blown Rebellion because Casey tywin's whole
Army, go by the like, holy crap. This is a big deal.
This isn't just a small Excursion here, we're in the
midst of outbreak of Civil War. And so, as I says, well, we
couldn't do much about all we can do is like attack their
foraging parties. There's only 40 of us.
And, you know, even though they were growing, that growth took
time, we're talk about the immediate aftermath of the
battle. The mummer's Ford before, this
recruitment Drive started, before they started to grow and
into a real force to be reckoned with the stuff with Tywin
happened really early on. So they were Bye.
Ned hand to the king and while they're out in the field, Tywin
becomes hand of the king, like what what are they supposed to
do? Robert, the guy that they're
honorably fighting for dies. It's like Tywin did rebelled but
one it's like he won his little Rebellion there and Joffrey is
on the throne. Now they're like, now we're
Outlaws what Santa at court is hearing all this and here's
pycelle, read all this list of traitors people.
Who if they don't come and bend the Any and throws.
His name is listed among some big names.
Stannis Renly the Royce's, the tyrells the martel's bar Sameer,
you know, like like okay so he's it's a notable figure.
Nina says, this is a radical shift in the Paradigm for
thoreau's in the rest of that original band, as Harwin would
go on, to explain to Aria Hartman, of course, was amongst
the men that Ned sent from his group, he was the master.
He was the son of the master of Horse Holland, who are a finds
dying during the coup against Ned and his family and all that.
Music continues bad. Not only experienced firsthand
the mummer's Ford. The downfall of aristocratic
leadership the mountains, slew Raymond Dairy, while Gladden
wild and Lord mayor were also killed but saw its failure
second hand as well while still in the field essentially,
against Tywin. They face the Paradox that we
were sent by the Kings hand, but now to go after an outlaw.
But now that Outlaw is the hand of the king, the whole world
turned on its head, it was an actual quote from them, Beric
Dondarrion, provided an answer, he was the only Lord left of
them all The other, like, high-ranking guys were killed,
but Barak said. Okay.
We'll just keep following our directive which is eerily
similar to what Catelyn does when she's resurrected, she's
like just continues on doing what she was doing like but with
more focus, more intent, more single-mindedness about.
He's like, well we were sent out to work for the king, king Robb,
we're going to keep working for King Robert, but that's
interesting because all the other Lords and high-ranking
people were dead. So only this Undead night is
around for them. But of course, this point there
are describing They've jumped past his resurrection and her
talking about other things, but we have to go back.
It's these Innocents who suffer when the high Lords play their
Game of Thrones that quote always comes back because it's
so Central to the story to what George is trying to tell us.
And this group perfect example of that they're like, hey, hi
Lord, send them out to do a job. The entire job flips halfway
through because of the Game of Thrones being played their
pieces on the board. While the game is being played.
Add the board. He said the world flipped on its
head while the board with flipped on the table on the
floor you know, like when egg on the 6th when young Griff throws
the board on the ground playing with Tyrion and it's kind of
like that sigh bass board worth noting its flipped on its head
from the perspective of these Lords, playing your games where
the Innocents suffer. Yeah, but from their perspective
of rather than we're going to like represent Ned to defeat the
Lannisters. We're going to protect these
innocent people. Hmm that didn't change.
That's true based. Yeah they cook they stuck to
what they were going to do. You're right even though the
world around them flip their Duty stayed the same.
They're like, well, this is what we're about and it was great.
Yeah, that's it's really, it's wonderful.
Beautiful. And that's also in line with
another thing that Martin is constantly pushing is this idea
of torn loyalties like what if the king tells you to do one
thing and a queen tells you to do something different and what
if the king tells you to do something that's bad for the
people, the point of the king is to help the people.
But so anyway, this is thinking they're casting off there.
Loyalties. Yeah.
Oath. That Jamie is so torn between
and just doing what they think is fundamentally, right?
They start off that way. At least well said.
His purpose in coming to Westeros was to convert people
to real, or pretty simple. Start with Aries trickle, down
from there. When that failed try with
Robert, then really work, either.
He got close to Robert, but the religion part didn't didn't kick
off, but it was soon as he starts doing things in King.
Robert's name out in the field for the common folk, all sorts
of results. Great example of religious
syncretism, real Orest nights all the brother without banners
get knighted under the light of the seven, but With the flame of
the lore. So thoris, is it last succeeding
in winning people to real, or after 20 to 25 years of trying
to trickle down through the king?
He does. The opposite reproach, the
Grassroots approach and it's working great, they sent him to
the king didn't work. Grassroots approach.
Working great worth noting that if he had resurrected Robert
trickle down approach might as well get in there where Robert
got gored by the boar and brought him back alive.
There might have been some other ripples.
I'll be a very different story. You're right, man.
What a, what a what if that would be and to be fair as well,
the trickle-down effect is working pretty well for
Melisandre. She went after Stannis tan is
bought in and people are getting converted.
Now a lot of it's still pretty forcible.
Like at the wall, it's not all that necessarily holding but
this is Georgia is just a great and wonderful dichotomy of
George r.r. Martin, like doesn't all work
the same way, different scenarios, different people
different stuff, different results.
Do you think it would have worked if you tried on Robert?
Oh no, it was. I don't I really don't know.
I think maybe our Barrack that that where that was the
important part I guess is my point barek just passed it on to
Catelyn. What's what makes Catlin so
special in that room? That's kind of my thought.
Is that like it? Well I mean there could be
significance to like why role or could want Catelyn alive and we
seriously unlike things that Catelyn could do, that could be
significant and a plot sense. And yeah, I mean, I think that
it could have been that it would not have worked on Robert.
It works in Barrack, I worked on Catelyn and it wouldn't have
worked on like sand or or it would have worked on Sand, or
you know what I mean? I don't think it would work with
Robert simply because the dragons had been born yet.
Like, the official starts working hadn't quite happened
yet. Like, if Robert dies at the
beginning, Clash of Kings, when some of these things are
starting to kick off. And then do you think it could
work as it should me? I there's a part of me thinks
maybe if there is I go back and forth.
I have to think that there's a chance that there is some Some
thought behind it that it isn't just totally random magic.
The people Channel I got to agree with you there because
like otherwise, like, why aren't there a lot more resurrections
but he just just resurrects. Beric is like, what about the
other people? I don't even resurrect.
Anyone else only Barrack repeatedly.
As you never tried is known as no said, my brother is dead.
Please throw save. It was like, no, not even try
exact because they asked about Catelyn, like, do it on her.
He's like, nah, she's been dead too long.
But what about like all the other members of the
Brotherhood? That just died in the Battle
like well, what about him. Yeah, so there are yeah I'm kind
of with you. I think that it's Barrack.
Yeah. And Caitlin, I don't think, I
don't think it. Well, I'm not to say there's no
way it would have worked on Robert but I don't think it just
works on anyone. He tries whether whether or not
it worked on Roberts, still might be a question.
Yeah, you have an undead Robert. We had to have an immunity have
an undead Robert, Robert strong much larger and even more
formidable, but there can only be one Gonna Leave You
wondering. Another question is like someone
who's not significant like any other great or like, like
there's a milli. I got.
I'm just like, I don't think that it would have just worked.
Oh yeah, I think you're right. Which, and that's how thorough
sees it too, because he's like, this is the will of real or he's
like, I don't know why he wants Barrack back but he wants some,
but clearly the Lord of Light, once barek walking around doing
stuff everything. That's just the way a religious
person operates like well if it's happening we don't have an
explanation for it. It's just the will of the gods.
They have a reason. We don't, we can't perceive what
that reason is. Except that, except that you're
not going to know what these higher beings are doing.
Like, why would you know what they're doing?
You can't even see them, you know, they're so far above us.
We're ants to them. You know, why would we know?
And he's a little bit more, honest about it to other people
outwardly, right? Like, I don't do this, it's the
red God. Is there with, you know, my
prayers being answered. I'm not doing it.
We're Melisandre. Seems internally to know that
it's not really her. But externally once everyone to
believe that it is, yeah, I have this power.
Listen to what I'm telling, On you and insides like, man, I
hope my Powers right. Yeah.
Yeah, that's true. And that's another little
interesting comparison between the two.
They have the same religion, they've basically the same rank
I guess Melisandre and thoros do, but they have such a
different approach. Melisandre's directly in the
spotlight. She's out there.
Talking big prophecies in front of people moving Stannis around
make encouraging to make big decisions sleeping with him to
encourage them even more. Making Shadow babies, all this
other stuff actually wielding. Majuro this approach was not to
sleep with Throw a drink with the difference between.
Yeah he was hoping they'd get drunk enough and experiment.
Yeah maybe they did it might have convinced.
I mean Robert can never remember what he had done.
Was thirsty. The next days you know it's not
sexy but was able to get away with not actually having his
children in and was like Robert won't remember.
Anyway, let's just two Bros being broke.
Just two Bros being Bros be like Creed.
He was in a bunch of orgies. If it's a guy, Man, my to get in
there, who can know if you don't, there's literally no way.
Literally no need a rights, Doris Melisandre form.
Very interesting contrast to each other.
They start from roughly the same place but the rest is the
official representative sent to convert Aries, and then Robert
Melisandre is the on authorized representative whose mission is
to Enlighten status on what she sees as his apocalyptic Destiny.
Each of them also stands at the opposite ends of the spectrum of
religious, Integration in the story for Melisandre.
Nothing Else Matters, except the fate of the world and that's
understandable. I mean, you can understand
putting that first, right? It's a big deal and if you don't
take care of the apocalyptic crisis, then what else is there?
There's nothing left, right? There is no life, there is no
happiness. Like happiness is a small thing
to say when you have no living humans, but for thoreau's, it's
not so much about the apocalypse as about the Here.
And Now relora is a daily presence in the lives of
humanity. And it's his throws, his job to
make his will manifest by The lives of his people, neither
side is totally, right or wrong. And that's great conflict.
Yeah, he's more like a septon marable in a lot of ways.
And when in fact, they encounter each other and sipped, a
brother, like you people are dressed as Lannisters.
I got a problem with you Heil and Podrick and Brienne, but
user have Tamara ball. You're cool, you can go and that
was brand, was concerned. She's like, what did you do?
Mad some, oh, we let him go. He's cool.
You know, like, oh, all right. So it's really neat to compare
these. There's so many interesting
religious figures all throughout this story.
Re Doris personally I find him one of the most interesting
because he combines a lot of what I feel like religious
people should be like like help actually helping people go and
putting themselves. Not necessarily putting yourself
at risk though, he does that but like spending your life if you
say, this is what you are, what you're all about about making
lives of people, better than you should do it.
And a lot of them just rely too much on the quote-unquote
trickle-down effect rather than getting out there getting your
hands dirty with the grass. It's getting in there in the
dirt and actually planting the seeds yourself which is what
kind of more of the thoreau's approach.
And to me I have a little more respect for that.
I guess not that I don't have respect for the Melisandre
approach. I do think leaders causes great
change. It absolutely does whether you
like it or not whether you like that the world works that way or
not. It does so much.
That happens in politics is rooted in relationships and
personal things that we don't always see who's the Melisandre
that I have to play for the political landscape woman.
Bye. Behind every great man or
whatever. So the actual Resurrection.
So this is when thoreau's his life flipped upside down.
Sure hit flipped upside down because of the political
situation, the Robert losing his best friend lose it, having all
these other things happen or one of his best friends having, oh,
that's a big huge deal in his life and everything changed.
Obviously, he went from sitting around drinking to being an
outlaw in just a few days. But then on top of that, this
That first time his lordship had a hole right through him and
blood in his mouth. I knew there was no hope so when
his poor toward chest stopped moving, I gave him the good
God's Own kiss to send him on his way.
I filled my mouth with fire and breathe the Flames inside him
down his throat to lungs, and heart and soul.
The last kiss, it is called and many a time.
I saw the old priests bestow it on the Lord's.
Ants as they died. I had given it a time or two
myself as all priests must. But never before had, I felt a
dead man shudder as the fire filled him nor seen his eyes
come open. It was not me.
Who raised him, my lady. It was the Lord real or is not
done with him yet. Life is warmth and warmth is
Fire and Fire is gods and gods alone.
This was a man that had the capacity.
A pasta t for deep Faith, but it was dormant because he just
didn't see enough in the world to justify it.
To back it up to make it seem real.
He never truly embraced it. He says himself, he wasn't that
good of a priest early on. And this is why he wasn't
jealous. He didn't believe his much heed,
his faith wasn't as Intense or strong as most of the people
around him in the priesthood. And then it got less and less as
he spent more time. Like we said, he's he's not
around other Red Priest, he's just in Westeros.
You not even around other mirrors people, he's around
Robert, he's around, are he's around.
Whoever else is around people who worship the seven and
occasionally worship of the old gods, And so this just his
faith, probably decrease even more.
And then just boom, bam. Holy crap.
Resurrection like wow, talk about flipping the world on his
head. Again, he just found himself in
the Civil War with his friend dead completely, the world
looked around. And now, his faith is flipped
to. There's right very few
characters in the entire story. We can say had such a huge
change of perspective in such a short period of time and lived
to tell about it and kept going, right?
That's there. This is few people that had this
much happen so quickly all at once.
Another clone are by the way, share that he had performed that
ceremony on people before himself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And come back alive.
So he probably would have tried to do that with Robert.
Yeah. Yeah.
I used to write you might have you write and I Christina K
brings up that line filled my mouth with fire is so odd.
What does like what does that mean?
Which is a you know true like what does it do?
Is there an actual fire? Like I don't doubt it.
I'm like, I picture it kind of like, you know, like if you can
make yourself burp Nike There's like a sensation.
It can be hard to describe to someone how you like fill your
lungs with air and then like fill your mouth like maybe there
is like a real thing that ascends that he TAPS in.
We're like he feels that but I don't I'm someone else in the
shower guilty. Undertaker said maybe it helps
take a mouthful of hard liquor first.
Yeah yeah brief by little Fireball but yeah, it's hard for
them to put into words but he knows it when he does it.
Yeah, is not the filing. He it's a sensation that he
does. He is doing a thing and Nina
writes it and it occurs at a moment of empathy on the part of
thoreau's, the miracle happens not because he's trying to make
a miracle, he's not like let's aim for a miracle.
He's just doing the last nice thing.
He can for his friend for his dying friend or his just
deceased friend. It's he's he wants him to go to
real or heaven or would have you or to be in a better place.
It is empathy, it is kindness. This is the heart and soul of
what priest quote-unquote should be priestesses to a that's that
was an 8. A gender phrase, ha ha, but the
mat, but it worked. I mean, yeah, like he could not,
he didn't see it coming. He had no idea.
It was coming. He had didn't have hope of that
happening. It was completely off the table.
It wasn't like. Well, let's take our chance
here, like, completely completely unexpected.
As the inner rights, DeRosa small Act of sympathy results in
a wondrous, Resurrection, wondrous, indeed.
It's hard to know exactly what went on in throws his mind,
through all that. He expresses, some of it, we've
got several quotes, I actually, in this throughout this episode,
I have most of everything for Rose has ever said not
everything. He talks a lot, a lot of scenes
with him, especially the Storm of Swords, but also quite a bit
in the Feast for Crows, but most of the meaningful things he
says, we have in this episode. There's not so many that we
can't get most of them. So one of the best quotes we can
get from him that applies to, this is right here in response
to being told, yeah. He's, you know, you were not
such a great priest. Yet, I am not the false priest.
You knew the Lord of Light has woken in my heart, many Powers
long asleep or Waking and there are forces moving in the land.
I have seen them in my Flames. Yeah, his and his flame reading
is one of the things that's stronger.
Now, his ability to see things there is has grown greenbeard
claims thoris is going to find Jamie in the Flames, when he
hears that Jamie's escape from riverrun look well for us to
find him, you know, through flame reading like all.
Then there's More and more resurrections.
He resurrects Beric six times and he's uncomfortable with
their both uncomfortable with the Barrack asked him about it.
He's like, he doesn't, he doesn't want to name the number
Barrack insist, he's like 6. And then later when thoreau's is
expressing his amazement at the miraculousness of it all and and
and talk about how great flame is Barak jumps in.
Kind of angle. He's like fire consumes
everything. Everything and thoris was like
what's the matter? My friend?
Because of my, he calls in my Eep friend and Barak just walks
away abruptly. The idea that in the afterlife,
it's just nothing. There's nothing at all or if
least if you go through the Flames for that, there's
nothing. This is a man who's died six
times. And doesn't it remembers less?
Every time he comes back, certainly does remember what
it's like to be dead? He says are You My Mother
Thoreau? So at one point it's
heart-rending. It's almost as bad as egg.
I dreamt, I was young, which is yeah, let's not dwell on that.
By the way, I can't help but notice the dancing around the
Are again his six times hasn't got to the seventh yet and as if
he's his mother. Yeah, the seven.
And there isn't a 7, there isn't a seventh, right?
Because the, what the he passes the flame to stoneheart before
they could have been won. She's the sub.
Yeah, the stranger. Oh, I can't say the mother, but
a stranger. Yeah, she's a little of both I
suppose, but it's interesting that how some of the other
brothers don't necessarily fully perceive what's happening.
It's like, instead of embracing The Awakening of all powers.
The saying, well, thoris is really magical and Powerful.
For people like Lem to say, no, he's the greatest healer, he
sees it as healing Barracks when time response to that, by just
kind of staring at them. Like I don't I can't explain to
you my just gonna let him being I'm not gonna say anything, just
let this go hon. Just go ahead and believe that.
Yeah, no greater healer, he pauses and just as yeah, no
greater healer, sure. They sure.
But that's kind of in my mind that was implied.
Let him hold on to his balilla, if it makes him feel better.
He can think that way. You know, don't disabuse him of
that, but there are o star us accuses bear.
Work of being unconscious. He's like you just keep getting
yourself killed and varro's no I mean this is stauros a guy who
charges through the breach who leads from the front.
He's like no, you are being too. You're being too on cautious.
This isn't like a person is like nervous at seeing people put
themselves in danger in general. Now, this is a guy who's quite
comfortable bleeding from the front being brave and fearless.
And he's telling this guy. You're being too brave and
fearless. Yeah.
That's really something in terms of like their war effort,
they're constantly rating supply lines, attacking Lannister
foragers, his Legend starts to grow in other circles.
It's sometimes exaggerated because you game of telephone,
you know, thoreau's is here and there and everywhere.
And but it's important that it's not Barrack, it's Barrack and
thoros whenever they get mentioned, it's Barrack and
thoros, it's the the Red Priest in the lightning Lord.
Even though Barrack is technically in charge, throws
takes a subordinate role to him because Azam, my Lord recognizes
his rank, they're pretty much the co-leaders of the group and
recognize that way. So both of their stories grow
especially Barracks because everybody's like, I can't be
killed, but there is is going to keep bringing him back even
though he credits the Lord of Light.
Well, none of the other people could do that.
None of the other members of the Brotherhood could have the Lord
light. Do that for them then I can
respond to their prayers only throws.
His prayers is a little bit of downplaying.
The Resurrection to yes right there a couple of times.
Mention a oh hey barek was nearly dead but not like he was
killed and I brought him back. Like he's slowly reveals it to
Aria. Yeah, he's uncomfortable with it
to a little bit. I for example yeah here's
another example or relevant side bit here when Jaime and Brienne
and kleos are trying to sneak from River on the King's Landing
after Catlin sets Jamie free, right?
They encounter an inn where the owners try to steer them into a
Brotherhood without banners Ambush.
Right? Remember this?
They warn them off. Other routes to try to get them
to take the route they want. No, I know.
You don't wanna go down that route, you don't wanna go that
way because the bubble and one of them is talking about thoris
and Barracks, as he mentions, how deadly Lord Beric is, and
Jamie response. Does thoros of myr still ride
with him. I have, the red wizard.
I've heard tale. He has strange Powers.
Well, he had the power to match. Robert Baratheon, drink for
drink, and there were few enough who could say that Jamie had
once heard of thoreau's, tell the king that he became.
A red Breeze because the robes hid the wine stain.
So well Robert had laughed so hard, he'd spit ale all over a
cersei's, silken mantle to Silk and mantle.
Hi Dale stains. Can you imagine Searcy?
She was there just like ice-cold stalked out like you and
rightfully? So, that's a terrible thing to
do. So rude, this is a guy who works
for Thoreau saying, oh, the Red Priest.
You don't want to encounter him, he is strange.
Powers. He's talking him up to
discourage Jaime and Brienne and playoffs from going that route,
you know, how or else is probably or at least possibly
the one waiting to Ambush them, you know, Lisa or some people
that he works with. So that's funny.
And remember some Outlaws kill kleos and shoot arrows at Damien
Brianna. That might have even been those.
Same people are not the same people, but a different group of
Brotherhood without banners that hunt there.
They have course do want to capture Jamie and do much later
much later which is, you know where things are.
Where the books are now. But also they go around feeding
the common people winning their trust, but it's a little like
communism with the, the pluses, and minuses, where they're also
taking from people, to give to others.
And that not Everyone likes that, of course, here's another
quote to describe that scenario from Maria, are is listening
here. She heard one wizened old woman
complained to another, when they had bedded down for the night,
we never did no treason the others come in and took what
they wanted. Wanted same as this Bunch or a
Barrack. Did us no hurt though.
Her friend whispered and I read priest with him, he paid for all
they took paid. He took two of my chickens and
gave me a bit of paper with a mark on it.
Can I eat a bit of raggy Old Paper?
I ask you will it? Give me eggs.
She looked about to see that. No guards were near and spat
three times. I'm not going to make the
spitting sound for your benefit. There's for the Tully's and
there's for the Lannisters. And there's for the Starks.
Thanks for the great old lady, actually hold say something just
a little something here, that's gonna speak some people's
interest. Okay, there's a lot, I want you
to think about this scene of these and think about a certain
Winds of Winter character that we've heard about that Aziz.
And I have heard about that is not a character we can talk
about. But there's a little.
Can you think about that about pieces of paper and they're
valuing their value? Oh, good guys.
Just that just a little It's a good for y'all one day we'll
tell you what this inside. What this was about will tell
you what this was about but I think there's a certain
character that we haven't met yet who's gonna be like there's
some value to paper. Someone who knows what the value
of paper, is that paper is paper might indeed, get you some eggs,
you some eggs or something? Yeah you give it to the right
person but yeah seriously given the supposedly good guys are
stealing food from people who are already poor.
That's not a great look but they're not keeping it for
themselves entirely like they're giving it to other poor people
and Yeah. But they do get worse and worse
than this regard they do start just looking more like brigands
and less like helpers under Barrack they seem to do their
best note. How this one describes both
aspects of this? The giving and the taking here's
another cool conversation. They were here, not a fortnight
passed them and a dozen more driving sheep.
I could scarcely believe my eyes, Saros gave me three as
thanks. You eaten one tonight, Thoreau.
Those herding sheep and go ahead laugh out loud.
I grant you it was an odd sight. But Thor has claimed that as a
priest, he knew how to tend a flop.
I insure them to juggle them and yeah.
So cheering them to was like the ones he took the chickens from
and gave a paper that's that attending a flock about Shear
them. Yeah.
So that's a really clever way to summarize the situation, they're
in this conversation in our area over here.
So I like that a lot to more excellent writing from George.
We never get sick of that. He never stops hitting us.
Over the head with his Excellence.
We don't even always realize how excellent it is when we discover
it. Sometimes it takes us the 20th.
Time to realize some of the levels, the ghost of high heart.
OK, this is super interesting. Here, are you goes there twice
with the Brotherhood but clearly they've been there before they
know where she is. So they have experienced her and
talk to her before Aria sees this.
So, thoreau's has been going there for a while, he realized
his powers don't work at her Grove, or maybe he knew that
Already either one way or the other, this is more magic
verification than magic in the gods are real and to him, it
justifies or verifies Powers outside his own religion, which
I think is pretty important. He's seeing proof of other
Supernatural powers that have nothing to do with real.
Or even says that one point like, yeah, like the with their
Woods whisper into her sleep at night, I don't know what he
doesn't his understand it, but he recognized clearly separate
from real or And of course, he's gotten plenty of proof by this
point. He's resurrected Barrack many
times, his flame readings working better than the other
ever have. You may have heard stories from
elsewhere heard rumors. They may not even be true, but
we know there are facts of Greater magic happening around
the world. I want to say, apparently
separate from real or not clearly.
Okay. Yeah, we don't know if he would
perceive it. That way, for example, the ghost
of high heart has more powerful prophetic Powers than thoreau's,
but he does have them. And that's evidence of this is,
well, they keep going to her. If he was able to see all the
things they needed to see. They would, why would they keep
talking around? They keep going to her for
information. Why would they travel all that
way to a place that's not super defensible either?
It's the hill kind of standing alone by itself.
It's looks almost dangerous to be there except it's a bit
remote, but it's similar in a sense.
The picture thoreau's, like trying to perceive a certain
person looking into the flame and looking for Barak.
We're looking for Jamie are looking for someone Melisandre.
We've seen. This firsthand when she's trying
to find Stannis and the Lord of Light only shows her snow
capital S, right? That we come back to that she'll
your and interesting and intriguing moment got to figure
their same things with thoreau's, except that he's less
confident. What he sees he doesn't have her
zealotry doesn't have her like confidence in what?
He's seeing. He's more likely to downplay it
or to take it with a grain of salt or to blame himself for
misinterpreting where his Melisandre.
She sees it, she believes it, you know.
No, she admits she seen things wrong but usually that's an
after-the-fact thing. So he does later.
See the siege of riverrun, he tries to see it or he's rather
he tries to see River on and sees The Siege.
He tries to see it while he's near the coast a high heart and
indeed, it doesn't work which he expected like.
Yeah, it's pretty not going to work here and she emphasizes
that. Yeah, look into your fires.
Pink priest, you'll see. But not here, it won't work
here. So here's the quote.
What he does? See when he finally gets a view,
the Lord granted me a view of riverrun Island in a Sea of
Fire. It seemed the Flames.
Were leaping lions with long, Crimson Claws and how they
roared. Steve Lannisters Milady River
Run. Will soon come under attack but
it does. It does.
It does come under attack The Siege happens.
Similar enough language to the way it's written a sea of
Lannisters island in the Sea of Fire similar verbiage similar
style to How to go stuff. My heart sees thing, you know, a
serpent with purple fangs and her hair, whatever.
The I don't have them written out here for me to quote, but
similar language and he maybe isn't as good as mellor mokoro.
I'm not sure Nina points out. It's hard to say because we
don't get enough time with him less of him.
Giving Visions mean we've had more Visions from mokoro then
thoreau's, even though we've seen a lot less of McCory, it's
implied that Thoreau says had visions, that have worked out
for the Brotherhood that they be used it to find each other.
Like, when, Catharsis separate that's happened.
They show faith in his ability to do that even if it doesn't
work always. So it's implied, it's work.
But again that's tell us just how well it works.
You know it's reminding me of vision of Winterfell.
Ding oh yeah, totally a the sea rising or Walter fell.
Yeah. It's yours of Winterfell high
tide at what I'm guessing, Soros is not great with faces with
looking at faces and Igniting people because Brienne when
Brienne sees Gendry, she's like Renly.
And then she's like, wait, okay. You just look like her and and
Ned when he sees gendry's like that, looks like Robert best
friends with Robert but there's no hint that there has
recognized is Gendry is someone who looks like Robert, he's
like, yeah, whatever you're here.
You're a blacksmith care. Are you or are you that's true?
Is there any chance to thoreau's recognizes or nose and just as
not found it to be a thing, he needs to bring up or call him
out for question? Yes.
You know there's a chance there is a chance like yeah my just
known intimately because Robert had talked to him about all
these bastards. Yeah.
He wanted is actually known about Gendry and so they might
have a private conversations like Gendry might know that
Soros know, I don't know. Yeah.
I just thought interesting point.
Yeah, if we're not in his POV and his head for all we know
he's like that's Roberts boy, but he's not about to say it
evidence for this potential comes from the fact that of all
the shops throws goes to buy his swords.
At it, just happens to be the one we're Gendry works.
Yeah. Yeah, no that's on keeping tabs
on him but I don't know any for us and how much effort it throws
put into getting injury to join them.
You know. Like or at least not stopping
other people like a he had probably on some level he could
be looking out for him. Yeah interesting.
Yeah. So it's a good question we have
Robert's Rebellion but we also have Roberts resemblance.
Ha ha ha. Next let's talk about examples
that I'm rebelling against that remark.
Let's talk about the Battle except tree.
This is one of the few examples of that we actually get to see
most of a lot of what we see from throws is actually just
told to us like, of course, the Greyjoy Rebellion, a lot of
their other stuff. It's rating supply lines.
We don't actually see that. But we actually see through
Arias point of view when they track down and kill a group of
the bloody Mummers. The brave companions, this is
back when they really were about Justice and doing good, for the
people around because these people The bloody Mummers were
just doing horrible things to the civilians, all around the
riverlands and they'd already suffered from Gregor and Amory
lorch and well, hotz been a part of it along.
So he's hot, they're hunting these criminals down because no
one else will and our is watching and it starts off with
a few arrows and a little bit of an ambush.
And then the Warriors come charging out of the sap that
they had sacked. They were setting up at having
Fun with priest, torturing them and drinking their wine and
eating their food and the battle breaks out.
And here's what our area sees, ferocious and Lord Beric were
everywhere. There's sword, swirling fire,
the Red Priest hacked at a hide Shield, until it flew to Pieces.
While his horse. Kicked the man in the face.
That'll do it and his Battle Cry starts its throws.
His Battle Cry. That gets them going again.
He's allowed guy, that's very useful.
As we've said, he's fighting with a flaming sword.
He definitely doesn't have Wildfire anymore at this point.
There's no way out in the woods. He's got us, he's isn't even
have a razor. Didn't even have food.
Where is he cared? Where is he getting Wildfire
from? There's no chance.
He has Wildfire anymore. So this is evidence that he can
do. The fire sword thing.
Do you have invite a sword on fire?
You think it was the horse of mirror?
Erupts of mirin is horse of mirror.
Yeah. After the battle.
He goes to a brothel for Ha ha ha auro severe.
He's got that magic. Now we can set a sword on fire,
so then they hang the survivors and give them a trial.
And this is one of those times where it's like, yeah, the
trials, not going to go well for them because they're members of
the bloody Mummers. There are as employers the Lord
of Light to roast their souls until the end of time.
So it really doesn't have much sympathy for these guys, even
has sympathy for sand or a little bit, the little bit who,
and he hates the Lannisters and hates Gregor and sees them as so
violent evil. But even his preside is like,
like got to see the good in him or at least got to see where the
source of fall his hatred and anger comes from.
But there's nothing. Not much hope for these guys so
much over the bloody Mummers interesting Lee.
One of the one of those who gets hanged is a mirrors crossbow,
man, and he's trying to speak in broken English, broken common.
Like I Soldier either thoris of mirror could have spoken to him
in his native dialect and just chose not to he's like nah we're
hanging you and I'm not giving you the time of day here.
Sandor at that trial reminds me a little bit of Jaime Lannister.
Like he doesn't feel the need to justify himself to these people.
Like you guys are a bunch of Hypocrites.
I don't need you kill me if you want, but I'm not going to
explain myself to you. Yeah.
Which is our next topic.
Here gets and, or getting captured remember, the way they
find sand or is dogs sniff him out.
And here we see store has a sense of humor, quote, betrayed
by his own kind, throw us turn to the prisoner and yanked his
hood off. Welcome to our humble Hall, dog.
It is not so Grand as Roberts throne room.
But company is better Santa recognizes immediately and
that's when they have a conversation of about.
Yeah, I beat you. I overthrew you three times with
my fire source and then things start to get heated Sandra calls
them out, insults them a little bit and he says, this next line.
Do you deny that house? Clegane was built upon dead
children. I saw them lay prince, aegon and
princess rhaenys before the Iron Throne by rights.
Your arms should bear to bloody infants in places those Oh, ugly
dogs. Yeah, yikes.
Quite a quite a line are at sense of justice coming out, you
know, but and thoros doesn't fully trust him.
He's like, before he hands him. His sword for the trial by
combat. Make sure you hang guys.
Got an arrow pointed out. You two other guys have the
arrows point at UK. Now he has some sort and Barak
lights his sword for this. One Thor Barrack lights, his own
sword with his drawers at across his hand.
The one time we actually see the mechanics behind that.
So this is where I want to like wrap up, not the whole episode.
We've got a little more to go, but just the power stuff.
What other powers does he have? We've seen the resurrection.
So I was, you can do that. Although, as we've discussed
this limitations to it, or maybe he just doesn't want to do it to
everyone, we don't know exactly flame reading clearly.
You can do that and his powers grown in that regard, but it's
also limited fire swords. You can do that.
Although it's not like he's lighting.
Everyone swords on fire. It's just him and Barak doing
his own. No Barracks gone.
So maybe it's just him. Does he have cold resistance
like Melisandre Melisandre? Go in the north has no trouble
being in the snow and ice doesn't bother her a whit mokoro
sits in the sea for like two weeks just float in there,
doesn't seem to need to eat. So we talked about the food
thing before you get pruney. Yeah.
And does he have resistance to the elements?
Is that part of where he's developed?
Maybe Melisandre has that because she's way older than she
seems and that's affected her and she's just yeah, I mean was
meh. Lissandra out of the question,
like she's resistant to the cold but like what we would?
She also just flourish and or I would she get would she have to
deal with? Like what would you get sunburn?
If she was out in the desert? And, you know, and the sun
beating down her. I don't think so.
I don't think she would get sunburned.
So I think it's an element thing.
Not just resistance to the cold I guess is my point point,
people are jealous of her having pale skin and never getting
sunburned. Yeah, I think she would or I
wonder if maybe it's not a natural permanent automatic
Maybe she's doing something to give herself.
Imperviousness to the cold. She's taking some certain potion
or something like that. Maybe if you knew, she would
have to be prepared for prayers or whatever, what she calls.
Magic. But he calls a yeah, yeah.
There's like, really, it's really interesting like, looking
at her chapter and thinking to store us do this kind of thing
where he's just in pain and then gazing into the flame and black
blood dripping from her like well, his name is looking good
but he didn't commit himself to it.
He didn't have ambition. Like she does, he didn't study
those certain Spells. Yes, kind of thing that you get
to, after you've been doing it for 80 years, like, you have to,
like, really practice got to be super into it and she he's just
only in his 40s, so he couldn't be to that stage yet.
Yeah. There might be a.
And also even into his 40s he hasn't spent it all at a temple,
right? He went to another continent and
kind of abandoned his faith. And, but if he had stayed at the
temple for 20 more years, maybe he would have learned some of
the stuff Melisandre. Yeah, I'm of Korra.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely totally, right?
Or maybe he could go back there now, and they would have new
things. Teach him because he's old
enough. He's the master level or
what-have-you. Yeah, I mean we hear about these
things in real world for other disciplines like they're things
that you have been doing it for 30 years and you're still
learning, you're still getting banned and actively getting
better at. It's not like you're still
trying but like the people who were doing a 30 years or better
than people who didn't get for 10 years, you know?
Even though they're much older like archery or certain musical
instruments are just lots of crafts.
Lots of just a bajillion examples of that.
So it fit with majesty and all is, he's not a lot of sense is
required, you know do doctors say Typically have Refreshers if
you will have to keep up-to-date on new information.
Yeah. Well you're a lot of especially
licensed professionals. Usually have some upkeep
stoneheart, things, get pretty severe and dark here, not just
for the general topic. But for thoreau's personally,
let's start with a quote, describing the first Rising,
lady stoneheart, the phrase slashed, her throat from ear to
ear. When we found her by the river,
she was three days, dead Harwin? Me to give her the kiss of life,
but it had been too long, I would not do it.
So Lord Beric, put his lips to hers instead and the flame of
Life passed from him to her. And she Rose may the Lord of
Light protect us. She Rose super weird how like
this talking about before. Like, how do you do the kiss of
life? Well, he just naturally, like
he'd received it enough times, he knew how to give it.
I don't know how to fill his mouth with fire.
Yeah and pass that on, It's Supernatural.
Super interesting and curious. And and I guess maybe it's
because she had been Barak, she had his flame or because she's a
lady and they're all just westerosi and they follow the
highest ranking person around. Either way, despite being dead
like Barak was she outrank them and they followed her.
I just how these things work Authority.
The way Authority Works in Westeros like picturing, like
some people in the brotherhood like looking at each other.
Like we just we really following because she can't speak too
soon. Barely can really understand
really good joke in our flag means death, where someone like
suggest the mute character to be the like new captain.
And someone goes, Jim doesn't, they don't speak, I'll call me
like, if like if I'm wrong but I think a good quality in a leader
is if they can speak any case, this pretty important to look
at. I can tell you some other way
how to do your job then fine. But yeah, it's the opposite of
having a big Battlefield voice is having no voice at all.
It makes it difficult so but that's important to bring up.
That's that. They followed her because not
everyone followed her. Some of them just left.
I mean, not right away, but some of them just as frittered off.
I'm like, yeah, I'm not about this anymore.
Yeah, I wouldn't be about that anymore, but Thoreau stayed.
So why I really want to know why he stayed as he just seeing it
throws it because he cares if he's part of this, he pledged to
be part of this group, you can't leave the Brotherhood even
though they've fallen so far. I don't know, I don't know what,
like, he could go elsewhere and do good, but he just, he's
committed, you know? I mean, there is something to be
said for. Through mystical power whether
you should or not. It makes sense to believe that
they're worthy. If someone has a true mystical
power that maybe I should pay attention to them.
You know, I mean in the real world people follow so it's
because I'm big biceps him. Like this is a better reason.
Yeah I mean and he sees the hand of real or here so he wouldn't
leave the presence of the head of what's of real or guiding
things. I guess if he devoutly believes
that real or is steering events here and why would he go?
Somewhere else, he would stay, where we're Lord's hand is where
real or is flame is burning, right?
So, and that sense, you can see it from a religious person's
perspective is like, well, I'm miserable here, but this is
where God wants me to be. So I'm doing it now, Barak,
probably wouldn't have hang Podrick.
I don't think he's young, but stoneheart.
Let's have a quotes, a boy. She said, again, have pity my
lady Thoreau said, I do not doubt the kindness, and mercy,
and forgiveness can still be found somewhere in these Seven
Kingdoms. That do not look for them here.
This is the cave. Not a temple.
When men must live like rats and the dark beneath the Earth they
soon. Run out of pity as they do have
milk. And honey and Justice.
Can that be found in caves? Justice, throw smiled.
Wanly. I remember Justice had a
pleasant taste Justice. Is what we were about when
Barrack lettuce or so we told ourselves, we were kings men
nights and heroes but some nights are dark and full of
Terror nights with AK, by the way up hon thoreau's.
Fun, some nights are dark and full of Terror Milady or makes
Monsters of us. All are you saying you are
monsters? I'm saying we are human, you're
not the only one with wounds lady.
Bring in so, my brothers were good men when this began
somewhere less good? Shall we say though?
There are those who say it does not matter how a man begins but
only how he ends, suppose it could be the same for women.
So Barak seems to have become his best friend.
So he lost him and Robert before.
So those are two of his many wounds of people.
He lost not to mention the 20 men.
He brought. Most of them are probably dead.
Some of his lack of pity. Here is his hate of the
Lannisters though. Like, this isn't all.
Just yeah. This is how it is now.
But this is Podrick and Brienne decked out in Lannister.
Gear and sir, I'll hunt a Bannerman of house tarly, who is
allied with the Lannisters, the specific part of the quote,
that's really significant to me is when he says it does not
matter how a man begins, but only how he ends, right?
He's projecting a little protecting.
There's a lot of levels there because I guess I think about
one Catlin like he was a good character but how is her ends
that more important than all? The good she did over time.
That's why I think about Thoreau.
Yeah, I think of course of Berea and who is one of the most good
characters and who could be sullied by the end of the books
in a certain way? It's just it's a really good
line that those that one sentence has a very good to me.
Yeah, this is such a amazing conversation between the two
because he's also saying look even Brienne whose great and
understands the suffering and the like has pity and empathy.
She doesn't get how bad it can be.
Even she sees some of these things through a bit of a lens
of privilege even though she's excluded from so much even
though She's not allowed to be night even though she's a woman
in a man's world, she still comes from a wealthy family, she
still has money. And means, whereas thoris is
like the way he describes just as she acts, like justice is a,
should always happen. No matter what endorsed like,
look at a certain point, just even Justice is a luxury when
you have so little. Do you think cavemen back in the
day had blood justice for all the ills and we don't have
Justice. Now, plenty of think people get
away with stuff all the time, Justice.
Is done, but it's also not done sometimes.
So how's it going to be found in caves?
Right? Like how is it going to be
people who are barely eating barely surviving.
Barely all their friends have been killed.
They're constantly worried about whether their survive another
day. They have very little hope for
anything in the future right now.
Like they have very little optimism for their life ever
being good. Again, even someone who wants
Justice, like, it doesn't matter if you have Justice, if you
starve to death. Yeah.
The nature of Justice or morality, you might shift when
there are less resources. Okay, if it makes sense.
Some heroic Martyrs might starve to death rather than steal food,
but it makes sense to me to steal food, not starve to death
in and pay the food back later. That's a better sort of Justice,
you know? And that's what that fits with
what Thoreau said about, it matters, how you n, not how you
became like you began with stealing food, but you end by
giving it back and repaying it tenfold or helping other people
who need it. I think most people would be
okay with that. If not Than okay with it, like
praise that, given the circumstances.
So you really wonder what he thinks of stoneheart.
Like he's staying with this person that he thinks is ended
may be ending Darkly or is leading them down a darker path.
Taking them away from things, like justice towards things,
like Revenge, what's his view of this?
It's all part of God's plan. Is that his attitude?
Or does he have hope for the future?
Does he have optimism? Maybe, they can turn around.
I really do. I think it said he thinks it was
rulers. Well, yeah.
He has to Follow along with with her as a leader.
You also might have not not fully realized or processed
what's going on like he might have started with this
assumption it she's a new leader, she'll lead us to dress
this just like Barrack and he's like doesn't seem just that
doesn't seem right maybe I don't know maybe he's about to leave
next week, you know? Yeah I understand I can maybe he
understands some of what you want.
Maybe he feels like if she finds Aria or kills enough Lannisters
and phrase that she'll start to do other things.
She'll move on to Noble. Or tasks or maybe maybe he sees
it as well, we had Barrack for leader for a while that flame
pass to another dead person. It'll eventually pass to someone
else, I won't be stoneheart. Yeah, somebody else.
And maybe this is another parallel George, the drawing to
like Stannis and Melisandre. Like, how much will throw us put
up with, from Lady stoneheart? How much will stand us?
Put up with from lso muscle 1919?
He's are doing person. Yeah.
Yeah, there you go. That's a good call to.
Yeah. That is really good.
I like your idea to do because it's Reverses it like the Red
Priest is the one that's realize they have done the wrong thing
there with the wrong person rather than the king with the
Red. Praetor Queen with the red for
lady stoneheart. Here's another quote from him
about this scenario. Here minding comes and goes and
then it sea no more. So too with men or Barracks.
Fire has gone out this world, I fear a Grimmer Shadow leads us
in his place. It's kind of neat that Don Dairy
is the lightning Lord when we have the Lord of Light and then
we have law. A fire has gone out.
Etc. So he thought thought thought
was fitting lightning comes and goes and a scene.
No more a grammar. Shadow leads us in his place so
she obviously obviously that's pretty accurate.
She's pretty Grim Shadow and the Brotherhood without banners is
surely given that they only operate in the riverlands and
maybe the Northern parts of the reach and maybe a little bit and
the crown has mostly they're stomping grounds is the
riverlands. They have to be aware of the
giant wolf pack roaming around led by a Dire Wolf, like
everyone seems to have heard about it.
That's in the area. Surely, they know a thing or two
about your leaving. Countered it, maybe not
directly, but you wonder what the deal with that is and what
he thinks of that, especially because stone hearts looking for
Aria thoreau's. Had are they had already for a
while until she got away. So they've talked about that
throws knows that she wants her daughter back.
And who knows what conversations have happened behind the scenes
on that conversations would be very difficult with lady
stoneheart with her. Barely able to talk and all
picture. That just hear her sitting there
with her Cal and her barely Audible Voice just like
scratching out questions for him about Aria and him being like,
yeah, we had her. We were trying to take her to
you. We were born.
I was saying. But of course, they're still
there still rating and Romping around and we're jumping back a
little for this quote, just to remind ourselves of what he had
looked like and what he looks like.
Now this is from Arias point of view.
She had seen him before and is just surprised at what he looks
like after being in the wilderness for so long.
He pointed toward the fire or Tom seven strings.
Stood talking to a tall thin man with oddments of old armor
buckled. On over his ratty pink robes
that can't be thorough. So of mere.
Are you remember? The Red Priest is fat with a
smooth face and a shiny bald head.
This man had a droopy face and a full head of Shaggy gray hair.
It would have been funny to see older thoreau's or our prior
Thoreau standing next to virus. They would have been less.
Like be like no hair at all. Yeah.
Robes. We're purple.
Robes and red. Robes.
And the shorter one when they're really tall wants to eat KitKat.
It's just, it's been scared, a hairless cat.
Yeah, so he goes from fat with tall thin, man.
So he's thin now. He's not just lost weight but
he's thin. So very, very different.
And he goes from not hit from no hair at all, to lots of hair,
Sabri end seeing a similar thing when she sees him.
But she didn't really have a prior version of him to compare.
She'd only heard about him. I don't know that she had seen
him much at all or even ever. So this isn't all that Stacks
up. Pretty interesting lie.
And we know that after our he got away Snatched by sand or
they tracked them, as far as the fairy, the fairy that's and or
ripped off. And then they were unable to
pursue them any farther, which kind of worked out for them
because going to riverrun wouldn't have been great going
to. The twins.
Would have been really bad because that's where the Red
Wedding was are in Sandra. Barely got away going there.
So brave companion are the Brotherhood that banners
wouldn't want to go show up there where the we're all that
was going down. I just want to point out this is
not directly related to thoreau's, but when Jamie had
Brienne on his side, I'd like sneaking through the woods, they
evaded capture for a time until he attacked her and they got
caught because they were dueling in the woods and everybody
noticed that people who are out there.
But when the Brotherhood without banners had Brienne on their
side, they captured gamey using her to help.
So yeah. Jamie should just pay attention
to that. Let's talk about what's next.
We saw the in that the brave companion showed up that Brienne
had her no chance, no choice. Moment, the Brotherhood had
already. Well, infiltrated that that was
one of their bases of operations.
So that was part of why they were all over that.
When Brienne was wounded, they were able to easily capture her
and take her away. Here's what Sorrows thinks
about. What's next direct from his
mouth. We were kings men when we began
man told her but King's Men Must Have a kink and we have none.
We were brothers soon but now our Brotherhood is broken.
I do not know who we are. If truth be told Nora where we
might be going. I only know, the road is dark
fires, had not shown me what lies at its end, he has no idea
where it's going. He knows he's on the road, he's
on it yet. Saul he thinks is, I'm on the
road, and the fires aren't bright enough to show me where
it's going, but he knows he's going to stay on that path.
He doesn't seem to have any indication.
He's going to leave the path. He doesn't give us any clue
directly to this point. He's really been a Survivor, he
survived a pike, he survived the Ambush where two-thirds of the
men were killed even though he's of the most visible people on
the battlefield. No one could take him down, he
survived countless skirmishes and battles amongst the
Brotherhood without banners one that we saw 4chan through Aria
with at the Battle of the century.
The burning step tree has been so many others, he continues to
lead from the front, we can guess and to arrange things.
So this may not that his faith isn't as big as it's ever been.
Given the proof of magic and old Powers Awakening and him
believing he's on the path floor set for him.
Well surviving all these battles.
Probably makes him feel like that to he's like well the Lord
of Light isn't done with Barrack or the or light isn't done with
lady stoneheart. Well the Lord of Light isn't
done with you either thoreau's clearly you keep surviving.
Keep getting out of these things where almost everybody else
dies. So yeah that's got to be
boosting his faith a little bit. You guys brought up maybe.
Yeah maybe he'll just leave stoneheart.
He seems to be pretty committed but there are hints that he may
be leaching. His end of his Road.
Road or the end of his Wick is he was a fire metaphor.
He's an outlaw but yeah, things keep getting worse.
Does he really want to be that way?
I mean what if the Lannisters are overthrown he has a shot to
not be an outlaw anymore. He's an out, he's an outlaw to
them but if like someone from a different family sits the throne
he might be to get a pardon right?
That could change things. What if Blackfish joins the
Brotherhood, what if they, he joins the mix?
All of a sudden, they have another really capable leader in
there. That might encourage him to
stay. I don't think he's quite as
motivated by a whether or not someone pardons him.
Okay. I would get along the same line
might be for the rest of his brother, he might care about
that for them. Yeah.
Maybe it's maybe not like the caves anymore, not any kind of
consideration or factor but I think he is more fundamentally
worried about some combination of quote, the right thing and
what we're Laura wants, okay? And, and even think about like
Blackfish showing up if Blackfish.
Showed up, would he want to join their ranks if there were just
let indiscriminately murder people and stealing food all
these other negative things. I mean, this cat is nice Catlin,
but she's Undead. And, yeah, so it's like, it's
really tough question. Yeah.
Like we don't have a good answer there.
So, throwing throws in the mix of that just makes it even more
confusing handling. Well, he might make her want to
join, or he might want to go with black fish instead if she's
he's doing stuff or yeah, like, he doesn't want his people to
suffer. He doesn't want them to how he
wants them to have a way out. I think he wants their broken
men that are stuck and He's himself, says he doesn't see the
road ahead. Well, maybe the road ahead will
come visit. Maybe he finds out what's going
on in the north and that gives him purpose.
He's like, oh, great battle in the north, you say the spirits
of darkness and cold that maybe that's where I should be.
You know, I went to think it ran is going to give him purpose.
That would be nice and Brienne still, there may be Brie end
showing him. Something like maybe the way the
Brienne Jamie situation resolved.
A stone. Maybe maybe that changes throws
his mind. Here's a clue that he's the
things are even worse than even, he thought he just he's tells
Jamie or he tells Brian, all those things about how Justice
is gone, how it would be nice to have that?
We don't even it's a luxury Etc. After that, this moment happens
after that, it's really important to get your order of
effects here because he's he's talked about how far down
they've gone. But apparently, even he is
shocked at how far they really have gone down this Rabbit Hole
of Darkness, quote, or Respect his breath.
In dismay this? True, a dead man's home.
Have we Fallen that low? The big man scowled at him.
It's good steel. There's nothing good about that.
Hell, nor the men who wore it said, the Red Priest.
Sandor. Clegane was a man in torment and
words of beasts in human skin. I'm not them.
Then why show the world? Their face?
Savage snarling Twisted, Zach who you would be Lim beside of
it will make my foes afraid. Side of it.
Makes me afraid and nothing makes thoreau's afraid.
We know that there is is fearless and lamb should know
that, so it means a lot lamb, just kind of snarkily as well.
Then they'll look, you know, like it's not a very good
answer. It's not really a resolution
there. The point is, this is like why
you're wearing the like the flag of the Brave Companions and
sandor Clegane. It's evil.
Is that the next line Lim says don't look.
Yeah. Right?
Yeah, yeah. Because that's so telling
because it's not so much he's afraid like Oh my God, here
dangerous worthy might kill me, it's more like, oh my God, look
at what we've become become as bad as braces.
Don't look here. Don't think about what we
become. I'm not working.
You know? Like a, it is an example of
becoming what you're fighting against.
Yeah. It's also a Lannister.
Hell neighing. It's not, he hates the
Lannisters. Was that to, it's like a double
him. He's like Cheese's.
Like I'm on the side of, I'm part of this, like hoof.
Like he tries to not make it about himself.
He tries. That's what like ideally he's
making it about the Group. He's making about the lowborn
people, the commoners just Justice goals ideals, not
personal stuff. But this, this is personal for
him as well as violating their ideals and these things.
So that's really bad. Like, he's like lemon lens,
answer sucks. He's like, yeah, who cares?
You know, and lamb has a lot of hate in him to the Lannisters
killed, his wife, and kids. So like, and he's been living
like this to, and he doesn't have thoros.
His faith background to, like maybe boost him up.
We'll give him a different Outlook to give him a different
attitude. Something to hold onto.
He throws, has some meaning still in his life.
Something to cling to and where guys, like lamb it kind of all
about revenge. They're kind of all about the
same thing. Stone hearts about their dark.
So yeah. Well, he go North to Winterfell
and or the wall, you figure, if he goes to one, will go to the
other unless he dies at one. I mean, Maybe not, maybe the
won't be there by the time he gets the winner of else that
would be a possibility and again Melisandre.
So many things could happen that is just a series of great apes
waiting to happen. If they were able to have
conversations, I would man. It would be amazing.
I have no idea what George could have in store for us there.
But wow, I buy that book and read it who you know what me to
more than once because it's such a different Journey but it might
end them in the same place in terms of location where they
could maybe rub off on each other a little bit.
You know, therosis more devout than he's ever been.
He knows what's at stake that don't like Plex Arena.
Yay. And but he doesn't think it's
correct to burn. Then he might think it's okay to
hang them if they're wearing Lannister, Garb or at least go
along with it. But he doesn't just as you say
Shawn, he might go along with it if he thinks it's for the
greater good. Yeah, if burning a kid saves
Humanity. Then he'd be like, well, that's
awful. But better than Humanity ending.
I've burned kids for Worse sort of seeing kids burned for Worse.
Yeah, it stinks to think of your hero is being open to that.
But yeah, I mean, this is a great story where, you know,
Will he meet sand? Or again, that's an interesting
one. The Manny has so much somebody
takes on so much built-up angst towards, but also somebody has a
little sympathy for someone who ran off with Aria, and if he
meets him again, he'd want to know what happened.
There is a lot of things that could happen in between that
too, but it's a good question. Not one to answer.
Just want to think about what happens if they talk again, will
they will? They crack jokes at each other?
They fight beside each other. Will they fight each other?
Probably not that one probably won't fight each other but hey,
it is possible beyond the wall. Going Beyond the Wall would be
interesting and a Barrack is gone.
So that's the little, you know, the different possibilities
there. I don't know what you would, go
beyond the wall, that's little less likely, but going to the
wall, or to Winterfell those, both seem fairly likely and I
don't know, you know, there was one line when I was researching
for this where I still can't quite tell how it applied, but
it was that with the Ghost of high heart and she was talking a
Barrack but she called him the Lord of corpses and he is like I
ask you don't call me that. Don't don't do that, it made me
wonder if if Barrack has any visions that thoris has if this
Breath of Fire gives him any Supernatural knowledge or
visions himself and if May or and even if not active or
detailed if it just this feeling that the Lord of court if that's
the night king or whatever. Like now I'm not that I don't
want to be that don't call me that you know hmm yeah yeah it
is interesting. Like what how what You seeing
like what does he see when he closes his eyes like because you
have dreams? Yeah super interesting and
because if he does it does relate a lot to throws because
Eric was his best friend and they talk about these things.
Sometimes talks about losing his memories and talks about what he
sees and I think they probably had some conversations off page
about the meaning of it all and how it works and what's behind
the veil and thoris would have questions Barrack with maybe
need to talk it through. Maybe is like a It kind of thing
and Dorothy. Just out of curiosity to.
If I had a friend who got resurrected, I be asking all
kinds of questions. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, get an
erection. Yeah, that's my first.
Okay, folks I that is we have reached the end of our notes.
There's a few questions here. Last few moments to get in a
question or comment. We talked a lot about thoreau's.
I was really happy with this episode.
I thought of the our discussion with particularly good was very
deep and was a good. Combination of world-building of
theorizing of magic and character work.
Lot of good character work. Doris is a really good
character. A great example of the level of
depth that non-primary characters can have because he's
not a primary character, but this much, you would think he's
a primary character. If this, if you didn't know A
Song of Ice and Fire given all this, you would think like, oh,
that guy must be important. Well, he is important but he's
not primary. He's not even that sees tertiary
might not be secondary. I would argue he is, but, but
it's close. Cause I wouldn't argue
strenuously if he is in, there are 40 or 50 secondary character
or maybe even more than that. But yeah, you're right.
Maybe maybe, maybe, maybe there should be a 2A and 2B.
Yeah, there you are. You to be?
I would I would be more if I would, are also say to be
probably, but but he may rise to 2A, 2B or not. 2B may rise to a
higher level. If the rest of his Arc is more
primary, you know, 52 in Canada, you can see them being more
important down the stretch given, you know, the Red Priest,
the prophecy, the darkness, the others, the Zora high, like, you
can see that and taking more. So, yeah, at the end of this
story, he might be clearly secondary, or?
Yeah. Or, you know, primary, maybe I'm
not, I guess a drawer just said he doesn't plan on introducing
any new POV so that. Yeah, it makes you think,
probably not, but I would love to see.
Here's one, here's one that I hope we got, since we are going
to get another POV, probably. Assuming he sticks to that.
Unless there is a prologue character which we like no, he's
gonna die, but melisandre's POV while she interacts with thoris
would be super, that would be. Yeah, give us that George or at
least, thinking about it afterwards, if they interact.
Yeah, would love to hear her thoughts on him.
So we probably won't get his thoughts on her, at least not in
his head. He may speak them which that I
want that too. But yeah, we'll see.
Cool. All right.
Dom tortelli a shout-out to folk wise.
What's up Dom? He says I love how ferocious is.
Like what if Robert evolved into Stannis?
Right about like justice and like stuff like that?
Anyways I love it. Yeah been down yeah just like
time is ravaging. He looks older than he is.
You went from looking younger to older.
Yea tall thin that's a great take a good one.
Sarah Jane Williams says, maybe Ari.
Will kill lady stoneheart already spent a while in the
house of black and white and with jock in their doctrines,
rubbed off on her. A debt is owed, because
stoneheart, has cheated death, it might be seen as a mercy.
Yeah, that would be something. If Aria is the one to put her
own mother out of out of her, won't give her mercy murmuring.
Are you? His nickname is currently mercy.
So that even more fits. Yeah.
I could see it.
She might need to be, she might
need to be put down, so to speak to if she just gets more and
more evil. I've LED I'll say let her murder
a few more phrase and Lannisters first, and then and turn the
flip that switch, but your mileage may vary.
I like it on one level. But when I think of the reality
of how old is that timeline work?
How long for our daily, the house and black away into the
riverlands fine. Ladies don't like sheep
traipsing around the river. Maybe Stone are ghosts North to,
and I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
It is true. It is a little tricky to figure
that out, so to imagine the logistics of them coming
together, but it's George, he could do it.
He could pull it off if he wanted to, but II That's a small
strike against that idea. Darkness Dame says.
Yeah there's already been a split in the BWB with some
people like edric leaving. Do wonder if they'll be another.
Yeah, edric Dane left and Guy the Archer left few others, it's
hard to tell. I like edrick so much.
Yeah, good I would leave too. Yeah, I mean, it was he was
partly saying because Barak was his Lord.
So he was a squire was like, well, that's my Lord is gone.
I have no one to Squire for may as well leave.
Yeah, but also, because of were led by of revenant now, Oh,
that's a good reason. It directly if you had a good
Revenant leader, maybe you stay driven and leaders like
hell-bent on Revenge and violence and Barak was a good
Revenant leader. I suppose when he was really
around. Yeah, it was really a rabbit.
As much as just Undead ravenous more like implies the revenge on
down. Has the Revenant is Undead being
bent on Revenge for or bent, on finishing the task, it was
completing which in that sense, it would be better.
Because Barak is told by trying to finish the job.
Yeah. So I sort of was a revenues,
kind of a loose term, you know. And entertain is Lord of
Starfall. He's not like are to Starfall,
he's Lord of Starfall. So yet another reason to lead
was to go ahead and go be Lord of Starfall.
I got, why am I hanging around in caves?
When I could go? Man, this is a bad.
Like, I could go home and tell the servants to make me
breakfast. All day long.
Mmm. All day breakfast?
Yeah. All day breakfast.
After this? Yeah, it's been three hour
episode. We've just done.
Yeah. So the trivial Via quite the
question again was mere makes weapons that into in particular
that they're famous for crossbows and stilettos.
Mirror stiletto has been mentioned, Dario is the bonus
question. I know there is the quick bonus
question. He has, he wields a stiletto is
to blaze with the naked ladies, a sword in a mirror stiletto.
I'm pretty sure Tyrion seize land cells, attempt to grow a
mustache. And says, it's like, as thin as
a mirror stiletto, because it's barely a mustache because
there's yeah, the worst level one comes.
Six times in the entire series did get share a sea star guest,
both of the Stiletto and the Daria.
Nice job, Sierra C star. Shout out to you forgetting the
questions, right? Good job.
Hope. Sean had a cat, but she ran
away, jumped out of his lapis immediately lost it recommended.
Further episode listening, our recent Valerie has on real or
which came before House of the Dragon season.
Not too long before was just a few episodes before.
Also, the summerhall episodes were Pretty important.
We mentioned that deal with Aries and rhaegar.
So we have to summerhall episodes that are pretty far
back in our catalog. There's probably some others
that relate as well but I'm not sure who Sean's got the cat.
Again, we go look at her store cat.
That's a cute one. Oh, yeah.
Thanks to all of you all Who Came live.
Thanks to an includes the kitty cats and the other cats out
there that watch the stream with their owners, even if just for a
minute or two, we Appreciate that yours and the cat's
presences. Thanks to Nina for.
The excellent takes of read a lot of her texts.
Today, I often do they were particularly good today.
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well. Thanks to Joey and Jesse and
bran for our Music. We have lots of music on our
various forms of episodes and those guys take care of it for
us. Thanks also to Michael car
failed for his maps and video intro.
Michael has put out a movie recently, we will be sharing it
around, once it gets through the pre pre, the post-production
phase, it's very close. So that's exciting.
Michael is a creative Dynamo, he's always working on some
project or other, you're right, creative dynamos.
He is Taipei. He does.
He does not mean yes. He sure, you know, Jimmy Graham
is a teacher and he great makes movies.
And makes those maps that are behind disease and makes our
intro and sends us like custom cards that he cut himself.
They like making like a pop-out version of Winterfell or the
wall or he makes like Cassandra is always doing creative
projects. I'm too full creative energy.
This man and an effort. Yes yeah he works hard.
He fulfills that funny to you also flies in the face of the,
the non funny German stereotype because I'm like, I know, I'm, I
see that trophy on my wall. I know of one of the funniest
people. I know it's turbines.
Yeah, he does. Fulfill the productive
stereotype hard-working are. Yeah, that wouldn't be that one
Germans don't mind something. Yeah, I don't mind.
So cool. Yeah, next week is blood-magic
and will be Hitting that hard with lots of fun stuff.
Get to go Supernatural in the meantime, natural are super
super natural. Super, super natural.
Yeah, I like your take better. We're gonna shake.
Thanks again to both of y'all. Share and Sean, and we'll see
you all next week. And, you know, what to do in the
meantime. Well, Aria Reedus.