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None. 
Sir Simon summarizes this 

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episode, at least the beginning 
of it, when he tells Damon that 

3
00:01:43,570 --> 00:01:47,130
each side has suffered great 
loss and will be unsure of 

4
00:01:47,130 --> 00:01:49,240
what's to come. 
There's a lot of truth to that, 

5
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,960
but others see it as an 
opportunity. 

6
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,560
There's a lot of grief, and much
of what we saw in episode 5 is 

7
00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,840
seen heard, done through that 
heavy emotional filter. 

8
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,560
But at the same time, Rooks Rest
created a power vacuum, and 

9
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,680
those who were not weighed down 
with grief will be quicker to 

10
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,440
take advantage. 
Those who keep their eyes 

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00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,080
regular or sapphire. 
We don't discriminate here on 

12
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,040
the prize. 
Those types won't be taking any 

13
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,760
breaks. 
As Damon says it's the best time

14
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,040
for a show of strength. 
Again, Damon and Amon having a 

15
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,840
similar reaction to things for 
doing similar things. 

16
00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,880
But as Elena says to Amond, was 
it worth the price? 

17
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,440
Because the wrong show of 
strength can backfire, as it 

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00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,840
does for both of them and for 
Sir Kristen Cole. 

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00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,200
Tensions are flaring all over 
the Riverlands and in King's 

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00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,720
Landing and we got to meet quite
a few new characters in this 

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00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,600
one. 
There's more dreams, more 

22
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,720
references, more delving into 
Targaryen history and some 

23
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,480
exciting set up for new 
potential dragon riders. 

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It's a true mid season episode, 
getting us ready for all the 

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rest and so much more to come. 
And we've got all that and more 

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on this episode of History of 
Westeros podcast. 

27
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,760
Hello and welcome everybody. 
Another episode History of 

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00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,560
Westeros podcast here for you 
today. 

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It's episode 5. 
Here we are on Monday at 6:00 

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Eastern. 
That's when we do these 

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00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,200
Wednesdays. 
We're here at 7 Eastern 

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00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,360
Saturdays at 3:00, and we do 
game streams over at twitch.tv 

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00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,800
History of Westeros on Fridays 
at six. 

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00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,200
Did I say it's six at six? 
At six at six, twitch.tv history

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00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,720
of Westeros. 
That's right, and I want to 

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00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,680
remind you all that we are going
to be live at City Winery, New 

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00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,880
York City on August 3rd. 
Come see us. 

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00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,680
We'll recap the season, make a 
few predictions, and have a lot 

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00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,400
of fun in a live environment. 
And then those of you can't make

40
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,640
it there, well, we'll be posting
it up so you can catch it after 

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the fact. 
If you have any questions for 

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00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,720
us, send them to 
westeroshistory@gmail.com or 

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00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,560
type them in the chat here if 
you're live, and maybe we'll 

44
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,760
shout you out or answer your 
question or refer to it in some 

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00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,920
way. 
And yeah, well, following in the

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00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,640
footsteps of many a mid season 
episode, this one sets up the 

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second-half, right? 
Expanding story, existing 

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characters taking on new roles, 
new phases of their arc, new 

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characters from a variety of 
locations, powers, a big theme. 

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Also questions of leadership, 
who the leaders are, whether 

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they deserve to be. 
Some of this is replacing what 

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was lost. 
And of course that huge element 

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of grief that I mentioned. 
But it's really all the way 

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throughout. 
Overall take favorite scene and 

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performances. 
That's how we like to start. 

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Sean, kick it on over to you. 
And also, hey, say hello while 

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00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,400
you're at it 'cause this is the 
first thing. 

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00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,800
First time I've referred to you 
in the episode so far. 

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00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,640
We're like speeding speed 
running through the intro here. 

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00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,640
One, I'll say you did have a 
good bit of alliteration in your

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intro there, however much you 
intended. 

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00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,840
I appreciate it. 
I try. 

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00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,080
You know, I I really love this 
episode. 

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00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,440
This is it, you know, it didn't 
have any kind of like big 

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00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,840
climatic reveals or action 
moments. 

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00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:05,440
But I appreciate all this sort 
of nuance and set up and the 

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00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,480
aftermath of the the huge 
episode we had last time. 

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I have a hard time picking a 
favorite a favorite moment or or

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performance here, but not 
because there wasn't a good one,

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00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,320
because there are so many good 
ones. 

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00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,360
Did you vote in our Facebook 
poll or did you abstain? 

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00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,080
I abstained because I was too 
uncertain. 

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00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,400
I, I, I, I I don't like to vote 
unless I'm confident, unless I'm

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00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,560
sure about it. 
Does that make sense? 

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00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:27,520
You know? 
Yeah, that's what I thought. 

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00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,160
That's what I was guessing. 
That's why I asked. 

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00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,840
I usually end up making multiple
choices that makes it easier for

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me. 
It is sometimes hard to pick 

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00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,280
one. 
Although I I didn't have a hard 

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00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:37,240
time this time, but we'll get to
me. 

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00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,320
If I'm being honest, it might be
Damon and I just don't want to 

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00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:41,440
admit it. 
Oh my. 

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God. 
Well, I might cite Kristen Cole 

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00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,320
for the second episode in a row.
So you know what? 

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00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,800
A role reversal we have. 
Today, hey, well, it's 

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00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,640
performance, not just and story,
not just, you know. 

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00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,800
It was, it was a really good 
one. 

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00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,360
Like, you know, like I said, I 
have a hard time naming one, but

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00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,800
I think I'm, I'm pressed. 
I might name the one at that 

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00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,760
meeting with Allison when that 
the council meeting when she's 

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00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,720
looking for support. 
She may be assumed poorly 

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00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,200
assumed that she was going to 
have, you know, four out of 

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seven people on her side, but it
turned out she only had one on 

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00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,160
her side. 
But, you know, she, she looked 

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00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,680
at Lara's and Lara's kind of 
deflected to Christian. 

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00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,720
Christian was reluctant to to 
answer her 'cause he knew it 

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00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,640
wasn't for a bunch of reasons. 
I don't think there's one simple

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00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,680
reason he was reluctant to 
answer, but it was good. 

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00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,560
It was a very quick, nuance rich
moment there. 

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00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,280
Right on. 
The another good line, maybe my 

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00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:40,080
favorite line of the episode, 
was when Damon is talking to 

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00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,120
Alice Rivers. 
He says Surely you've mistaken 

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00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,080
me for an upright. 
You haven't been there, right? 

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00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:47,840
Yeah. 
I was like, Yup. 

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00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,160
Nope. 
She's like, no, yeah, I haven't,

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00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,480
but still. 
I'm going to make you feel bad 

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00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,960
for it. 
I'm going to make my attempt to 

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00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,080
make my case. 
Right, and we'll dig deeper into

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00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,520
all those scenes. 
What about you, Shaya? 

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I'd say my favorite performances
I voted for in our Facebook 

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poll, which I love seeing what, 
what, who, who takes the lead 

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00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,480
and what people vote for and all
that. 

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00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,800
I love seeing that. 
I voted for Bethany Antonia, who

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plays Bela Targaryen. 
I felt like it was finally her 

115
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,760
real big moment to shine. 
She did a great job. 

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00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,200
I was a really moving, powerful 
scene. 

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00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,160
Both her with Coralise and her 
with Jace were both good scenes.

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So I, I voted for her and I 
voted for Fabian Frankel, 

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00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:37,120
Kristen Cole, because I did feel
that he played his role very 

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well in, in showing how tortured
and kind of traumatized he is 

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00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,400
and how he couldn't look Allison
in the eyes. 

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00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,360
And there's just so much to, I 
was very impressed by his 

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00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,920
performance. 
So yeah, I voted for those two, 

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00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,760
and I think my favorite scenes 
were the Bela J scenes, Bela 

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00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,360
scene, Bela Corley's, all of 
that stuff just deepening these 

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characters I've been really 
dying to see. 

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00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,600
My favorite was definitely the 
Bela Corley scene that like 

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00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,960
usually I have a struggle to 
pick a favorite scene. 

129
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,120
It was easy for me this time. 
I love how well she just cut 

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00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,400
through the grief to argue with 
him without shaming him and just

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00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,440
said all the right things. 
It was like an expert, like 

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00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,240
lawyer saying all the right 
things to convince a difficult 

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00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,440
jury. 
You know, it was just so. 

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00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,920
But it was way more meaningful 
than that. 

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00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,000
And I thought the performance 
was as good as the dialogue 

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00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,080
there. 
So for once, it was easy for me.

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00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,679
And she is winning our poll also
when it doing quite well. 

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00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,720
Our Damon, Matt Smith is doing 
pretty well, and Olivia Cook 

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00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,720
doing quite well. 
I think she might be in 2nd. 

140
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,520
And then Coralis is doing quite 
well. 

141
00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,800
I think he might be in 3rd. 
But also Bobby the dog, AKA 

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00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,600
cheese dog got added to the pole
and he's doing well because, 

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00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,440
yeah, I mean, that's loyalty 
right there. 

144
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:55,560
And he really sold that 
performing that dog. 

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00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,680
Like she showed that loyalty 
really came through. 

146
00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:01,360
I mean, it's very convincing the
dog wasn't acting right now. 

147
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,680
Can I point out something maybe 
a little humorous? 

148
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,880
No. 
Yeah, there was a a a motif a 

149
00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,440
couple of moments here. 
I I guess I also wanted to point

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00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,480
out that I usually don't watch 
the next time on. 

151
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,240
I usually wanna be able to 
speculate on the next episode 

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00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,840
without extra. 
Unsullied, yeah. 

153
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,880
Yeah, last week I did if you 
hadn't watched the the the next 

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00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,080
time on the imagery of Aegon 
cometh the street in that box 

155
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,120
might have been a little bit 
more mysterious. 

156
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,440
So we know what was going on 
here. 

157
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,560
I'd still think I probably would
have pieced together. 

158
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,840
I still think I would have 
speculated he's still alive. 

159
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,840
Just the nature of how they 
present deaths on screen. 

160
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,200
I I I think he was going to be 
alive and it what else would be 

161
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,760
in the box? 
But there still was this what's 

162
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,720
in the box 7 thought that came 
again when out when Ranera 

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00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:59,280
handed the little box Yeah, they
have the the pin for the hand in

164
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:00,240
it, but. 
What's in the box? 

165
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,040
And give it twice. 
Yeah. 

166
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,640
You know, that box reminded me 
of the box that Varys had 

167
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,960
shipped to him in the original 
Game of Thrones with the 

168
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,080
sorcerer that he had been 
hunting forever with, with no 

169
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,880
explanation of how he was caught
or any of that stuff. 

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00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,400
Whatever. 
I was like, oh, that's a similar

171
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,600
box. 
Yeah. 

172
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,240
So in an episode full of resets 
and redistribution of power and 

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00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,040
responsibility, leadership 
challenges and waiting to see 

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00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,080
how the realm reacts to such a 
big event, it's good to see we 

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00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,760
start with a little passage of 
time. 

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00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,880
That cart with the head on it 
can only travel so many miles 

177
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,320
per day. 
And I know like this show and 

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00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,760
lots of shows aren't super tight
with their timelines, you know, 

179
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,040
and but still, this couldn't 
have been quick, right? 

180
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,000
It it might have been just a 
week or so, but it definitely 

181
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,880
wasn't just a few days. 
That crowd reacts the exact 

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00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,160
opposite of how Cole maybe hopes
or expects. 

183
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,840
And you can see why right away. 
Of all people, Freddie Fox, who 

184
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,960
plays Gwane Hightower, said it 
best because we have so many 

185
00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,080
times likened Dragons, nuclear 
events or nuclear weapons. 

186
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,080
He says it's like seeing the 
first nuclear bomb dropped. 

187
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,600
You know, there's gonna be more.
And where would they likely drop

188
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,640
the next one on the people 
parading the head of their enemy

189
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,720
around of their of their ally 
around, you know, like, of 

190
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,680
course they're gonna hit that. 
So people are like, let's get 

191
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:16,200
the hell out of here. 
And so This is why this wasn't 

192
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,040
kind of an obvious mistake on 
Kristen's part and why he's 

193
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,520
maybe miscast as Hand to the 
King. 

194
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,200
He's not, he doesn't have a 
political mind. 

195
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,640
He's like he's thinking victory,
battle, we win, let's show that 

196
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,280
we won. 
It doesn't really go that much 

197
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,840
further in his mind probably. 
And oops, 'cause it doesn't go 

198
00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,040
well. 
People have a very like 

199
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,040
hallowed, sacred, almost deific 
view of the Dragons. 

200
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,480
Like you see them. 
One person actually says, I 

201
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,240
thought the Dragons was gods and
they're named after gods. 

202
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,360
So this really makes sense. 
They've never seen a big one 

203
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,000
killed ever. 
And when they've only they've 

204
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,200
heard of small ones being killed
and it was by another dragon, a 

205
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,200
much bigger one. 
So they don't even believe what 

206
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:58,320
they're seeing. 
There's, there's, there's 

207
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,680
disbelief even though it's right
in front of their eyes and all 

208
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:04,520
sorts of muttering. 
What's funny, they call it a 

209
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,000
black omen because yeah, it's 
like, yes, the black faction is 

210
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,560
mad about this and that's who 
you're worried about. 

211
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,520
But one exception here is huge. 
It says, ah, it's just meat. 

212
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,480
You know, he doesn't think it 
matters that much. 

213
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,080
He's he's very much the 
minority, though. 

214
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,760
Everyone else is muttering and 
and complaining and worried is 

215
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,440
the biggest emotion. 
Probably fear is is the is the 

216
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,440
dominant thing here? 
Well, him saying it's just me, I

217
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,600
kind of took that as a 
disillusionment with the Dragons

218
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,360
in general. 
Like, Oh my God, that's. 

219
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,880
Just me, yeah, I'd say a lot of 
people in that crowd are having 

220
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,720
that same reaction and other 
people are having a different 

221
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,200
like, you know, there's a a a 
myriad of reactions, all of 

222
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,920
which are negative and not 
really good for the Greens. 

223
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,360
Yeah, that's fair. 
Yeah, maybe that is just maybe I

224
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,040
just kind of miscast how what 
that meant, like the way he was 

225
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,520
viewing it, what what he means 
by me. 

226
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,720
But either way, you're right. 
Like it is, it's dismissive, 

227
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,560
which is not what they want. 
The mystique of the Dragons is 

228
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,680
so important. 
It's it's the fear of them that 

229
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,840
keeps people in line. 
And without that, I mean, we 

230
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,200
have a thing called the Doctrine
of exceptionalism that was 

231
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,400
established in the time of 
Jeharis and it was enabled 

232
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,120
Targaryens to be above the law 
because of these semi God like 

233
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,880
powers they had and these semi 
God like creatures that they 

234
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,400
rode. 
So yeah, and by the end of the 

235
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,720
episode, you see that they're 
starting to talk about doing 

236
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,120
something else that maybe 
lessens the mystique and lessens

237
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,000
the Targaryen hegemony over that
nuclear weapon of sorts. 

238
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,280
So we'll get back to that. 
But yeah, Gwain calls it a 

239
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,560
strange victory if it could be 
called one. 

240
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,760
So that's 2 battles if you count
the Battle of the Burning Mill 

241
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,120
and two Pyrrhic victories at or 
two draws. 

242
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,960
Just something along those 
lines. 

243
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,200
No clear wins yet, right? 
You know, another thought about 

244
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,400
the dragon head coming through 
is it two things I wanted to say

245
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,400
about it. 
One is I really appreciated that

246
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,160
it had flies buzzing around it. 
That was like an element of 

247
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,920
realism that easily could have 
not been included. 

248
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,080
That I really appreciated. 
But it also adds to the 

249
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,760
perception of the people around 
it, like it wasn't this God like

250
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,880
you imagine even like a dead God
might still glow and have this 

251
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,760
home about it. 
And it's listen, you know, but 

252
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,360
no, it's rotting meat. 
You know, it is not. 

253
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,120
It is not this sacred pristine 
thing of beauty or or even 

254
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,560
threat or whatever it might have
been before. 

255
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,440
It does kind of bring the 
mystique of the Dragons down a 

256
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,800
notch and therefore the people 
that control them too. 

257
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,480
Yeah, yeah. 
So there's a multiple, multiple 

258
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,800
things that are happening there.
There's the loss of mystique and

259
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,960
the overwhelming fear of what's 
coming next, what kind of 

260
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,560
reprisals coming from an era. 
And on top of that, we have the 

261
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,400
the starvation starting, not 
starvation, but getting to that 

262
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,000
point of, of look at the orange 
here. 

263
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,120
We got a rotten orange. 
People are buying these things 

264
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,520
and and that's the food that's 
available. 

265
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,800
And the greens don't have a lot 
of money. 

266
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,000
They can't buy their way out of 
this problem, not in the short 

267
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,200
term. 
It's been pointed out a few 

268
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,960
different times that money is 
tight, so it's not like they can

269
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,880
buy a bunch of food and 
distribute it even if that 

270
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:12,160
occurred to them. 
Kat and Hugh argue about what 

271
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:13,720
they can do. 
Hey, that rhymed. 

272
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,080
Hugh already did this work for 
Aegon. 

273
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,440
It said somewhat that's taught 
to us or told to us during the 

274
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,360
conversation, and he still 
hasn't been paid. 

275
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,360
He was told he was going to be 
paid in advance, but now he's 

276
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:30,400
getting stiffed, it looks like. 
So it's it's not just a reneging

277
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,520
of the deal, it's being stiffed 
on top of that. 

278
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,080
So Kat's like, look, you can we 
got to go like you got to stop 

279
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,640
holding out for this promise, 
this king, like where even you 

280
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,480
heard from him, like where is 
he, you know? 

281
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,440
And so she finally talks him 
into leaving. 

282
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,200
But then they go to the gate and
it's too late. 

283
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,680
They're trapped inside and what 
are they going to do? 

284
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,560
It's so this is kind of where 
we're left with them. 

285
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,720
And they are our eyes and ears 
to all the common folk of 

286
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,320
Westeros and their peril, their 
crisis is a lot of people's 

287
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,160
crises. 
And now they're in it, they're 

288
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,800
in the thick of it. 
And who knows what's going to 

289
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,200
happen next? 
What do you, what do you have to

290
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,960
say about that, Sean? 
Yeah, that was there was a lot 

291
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,760
going on in that council meeting
where this decision was made. 

292
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,120
Yeah, we'll come back to that in
a minute, of course. 

293
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,200
Yeah, I'm jumping ahead a little
bit, but it's connected because,

294
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,120
you know, Allison is kind of 
absorbing everything is going 

295
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,280
on, and the camera's kind of 
focusing in on her as the 

296
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,920
conversation is going around. 
And Amon immediately kind of 

297
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,480
stepped up with these questions 
and decrees, one of which was to

298
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,400
close the cities. 
And she seemed for a moment to 

299
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,560
kind of snap out of her 
bewilderment at that particular 

300
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,400
one. 
Like she knew that was a bad. 

301
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,840
Call she was I like that you're 
totally right. 

302
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,840
She was like disassociating the 
the the way the camera like 

303
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,480
focused on her and she was 
mostly just like and she starts 

304
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:49,520
breathing heavily and you're 
right. 

305
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,200
She was like almost like a 
reverie of disbelief. 

306
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,520
But that command was like, this 
is exactly like, this is what 

307
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,920
I'm talking about. 
You guys are idiots like. 

308
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,040
And I I've got a lot more to say
about that scene when we get 

309
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,599
there, but it does tie into the 
moment when Kristen tells 

310
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,560
Allison, like, on one hand, I 
see his argument, right? 

311
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,880
He's like, at that battle, man, 
what I saw, this is the word 

312
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,800
Dragon's now we need a dragon 
rider to lead us. 

313
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,720
Like, OK, maybe in battle, but 
for this political decision of 

314
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,640
how to manage the city. 
No. 

315
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,000
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

316
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,839
Dragon rider, clock one in. 
It's awful. 

317
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,240
Like who knows how many? 
I mean, just got. 

318
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,920
It's like also it was said it's 
1000 thousand people. 

319
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,920
How many of those people had 
like their nephew was out 

320
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,440
getting corn and now we can't 
get back into the city for 

321
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,800
dinner tonight or on and on and 
on. 

322
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,440
The food that was going to be 
thin or out. 

323
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,160
Like at some level they're 
trying to like, control panic, 

324
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,240
but I think this is going to 
create more panic as we saw. 

325
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,320
I'm guessing there's a system in
place for that farmer to get 

326
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,520
back in that night. 
They yeah, maybe there's some 

327
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,560
bureaucracy and he's out on the 
gates overnight or some hassle. 

328
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,680
Yeah, people can go in and out. 
They just get checked. 

329
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,560
You know, there's, there's a 
you're right. 

330
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,280
It's not just completely locked 
down. 

331
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,480
Probably not, and I would tell 
you. 

332
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,960
No, it's definitely they said 
that like that's what they like.

333
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,960
That's how Linda got in, for 
example, Yeah. 

334
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,760
Well, but she got in basically 
through. 

335
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,600
But other people were being let 
in too. 

336
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,280
Still. 
Yeah. 

337
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,240
But yeah, they were checking. 
People to is what this is going 

338
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,280
to lead to is corruption. 
This is going to give a bunch of

339
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,080
random guards the power over 
people. 

340
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,320
Oh yeah, like we saw with three 
and they can. 

341
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,640
Choose their friends and 
everything. 

342
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,640
Else at Maidenpool. 
Yeah, you're totally right. 

343
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,120
That's a good point. 
Like it it, it gives authority 

344
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,680
to people who have not been 
vetted for being able to handle 

345
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:34,960
authority. 
Like, are you, are you going to,

346
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,520
what are you going to do with 
this authority over people when 

347
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,840
you have it? 
OK, You're not. 

348
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,480
You shouldn't have authority 
over people 'cause you can't. 

349
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,000
You're, you know, that kind of 
thing. 

350
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,520
Yeah. 
So they're just giving power out

351
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,840
to all these gate guards that 
some of whom will probably be 

352
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,520
decent, but a lot of them will 
be crappy. 

353
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,200
And you're right. 
And there's a lot of set up for 

354
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,400
the council scene in the 
eventual ascension of Eamond 

355
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,240
before that. 
One of them is during this scene

356
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,760
of the head being paraded 
through the streets where Eamon 

357
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,360
and Allison stand on the 
battlements together. 

358
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,040
They are the two options to 
lead, though that isn't 

359
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,560
necessarily clear at that 
moment. 

360
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,040
It becomes clear very quickly. 
Neither of them talk in that 

361
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,160
moment, but she's still kind of 
looks at him, and he doesn't 

362
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,400
really look at her. 
And she notices the dagger. 

363
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,640
The camera focuses on the 
dagger, which is sort of like 

364
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,240
foreshading of where things are 
headed. 

365
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,800
And then we go to the sick bed 
because the box is part of the 

366
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,240
procession kind of, and it's, 
they show quite a bit of the box

367
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,840
passing through a few different 
spots, through the castle, 

368
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,080
through the streets, etcetera. 
Helena sees it. 

369
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,240
And with her it's always, you 
can't read her expression kind 

370
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,640
of ever, you know, except unless
it's like really extreme, like 

371
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,560
Blood and Cheese. 
But she tends to have not a 

372
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,720
typical reaction to things. 
You know, if she's on the 

373
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,040
spectrum, you wouldn't expect 
her to have necessarily standard

374
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,760
reactions to stimulus, 
especially when we consider that

375
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,600
she maybe knew this was coming 
or something like that. 

376
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,040
Like maybe she knows this 
already. 

377
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,040
So kind of inscrutable. 
Also kind of like Aymond is, but

378
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,480
for very different reasons. 
So Orwell starts to work on him.

379
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,360
It's pretty gnarly. 
We're told in the behind the 

380
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,960
scenes that like the metal, it's
Valyrian steel, so it doesn't 

381
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,440
melt, which might have been 
worse. 

382
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,280
And that is what happens in the 
book version. 

383
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,400
But. 
It still was really bad because,

384
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,920
yeah, it didn't melt into his 
flesh like it would have if it 

385
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,240
was regular steel, but it was so
hot and it continued to stay hot

386
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,040
that it like burned an ear off 
the side that was hit more like 

387
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,800
he that ear is missing. 
His flesh burned into the 

388
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,840
Valyrian steel rather than the. 
Steel coming into his flesh. 

389
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,360
Good point. 
And like, there would have been 

390
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,880
cloth under that army and I was 
wearing that against your bare 

391
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,440
skin. 
But that's obviously all gone 

392
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:39,600
now. 
It was just burned away. 

393
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,320
It was just incinerated 
completely because of the 

394
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,240
extreme heat. 
They talk about broken bones and

395
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,280
internal injuries, that knee 
snapping together. 

396
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,000
That was entirely unnecessary. 
But. 

397
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,240
But, but I guess it really shows
how bad he's in. 

398
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,680
And it's, it's so touch and go 
because like, you feel for 

399
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,280
Allison for a minute there. 
She looks over and she sees the 

400
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,040
silent sisters and is like, oh, 
well, they're only there to 

401
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,960
dress the dead. 
And they're just like standing 

402
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,680
there waiting as if they might 
be needed any moment. 

403
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,520
So that's pretty ominous if 
you're a mother. 

404
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,880
And. 
Yeah. 

405
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,080
It's almost like seeing the grim
Reaper in the room. 

406
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,520
Oh yeah, yeah, it really is. 
And they have their masks on and

407
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:13,920
everything. 
Yeah. 

408
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,480
It's like, yeah, that's pretty. 
That's pretty dark. 

409
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,920
So Orwell does his work, you 
know, he's focused and, you 

410
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,400
know, carrying on the way he 
does. 

411
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,120
And it's, I love how the the 
maesters, when they're in doctor

412
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,320
mode, they have that hood up 
like, you know, it's like keeps 

413
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,160
the hair out or something. 
I don't know, but we come back, 

414
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,400
he passes the buck to the gods, 
which is again we pointed out 

415
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,120
how this is a smart 
grandmaister. 

416
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,720
He didn't answer Allison last 
week when she asked about the 

417
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,080
succession. 
He's like, I don't know here 

418
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,720
He's like it's in the gods hands
now, like you do not. 

419
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,240
That's the downside of being the
doctor to a king or like a 

420
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,440
powerful person like you get 
blamed for something going 

421
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,120
wrong. 
I can easily scapegoat you 

422
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,560
'cause they don't know better. 
Like politics can make you can 

423
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,120
put you in the in the crosshairs
of the blame game. 

424
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,280
So he's a media like it's in the
God's hands now. 

425
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,080
And he says, I don't know if 
she's ever he's ever going to 

426
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,200
wake up. 
Just setting the expectations 

427
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,720
very low, which smart choice. 
And probably true too, because, 

428
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,680
yeah, internal injuries, all 
those burns. 

429
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:19,440
Yeah, he's in bad shape now. 
The the perhaps the most forward

430
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,320
moment of this episode or the 
scene rather, or the one that 

431
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,720
affects things going forward the
most is when Eamon comes in and 

432
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,800
it's notable how much deference 
there's everyone. 

433
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,360
It's like the parting of the tan
and Gray sea, 'cause people are 

434
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,960
dressed very plainly, 'cause 
they're, you know, medical and 

435
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,280
and priestly people. 
And he just stares down at the 

436
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,800
bed and then he says someone 
will need to rule it instead. 

437
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,960
Camera focuses on him for a SEC,
then it focuses on Allison 

438
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,160
again. 
Just showing us the two options.

439
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,480
Right. 
That was pretty interesting 

440
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,520
there, but but fairly 
straightforward. 

441
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,200
I think in his execution, 
they're telling us what's to 

442
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,240
come. 
But I think a little more 

443
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,760
importantly, we have Cole 
talking to Allison about 

444
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,680
Sunfire. 
Now we're going to focus a 

445
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,440
little more on Cole and 
Allison's conversations, but I 

446
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,400
want to select this moment to 
talk about it separately because

447
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,240
it's a little ambiguous and but 
yet in some ways it's not. 

448
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,800
I want to get your take on this,
Sean and and other people if 

449
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,720
you're listening, especially if 
you're live, but even if you're 

450
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,400
not, I want to hear from you on 
this as well. 

451
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,040
Cole tells Allison that Sunfire 
quote was a long time in the 

452
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:29,000
dying now he didn't wait though 
to find out clearly. 

453
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,120
Like what's he do? 
We'll sit here with the badly 

454
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,280
wounded king and wait for this 
dragon to pass or not and then 

455
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,280
we'll go home. 
Like clearly. 

456
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,000
No, he was going straight home 
to get the king medical 

457
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,960
attention. 
So maybe a rider caught up to 

458
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,880
them on the road was like, yeah,
Sunfire is dead now. 

459
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,000
But you know, like it's just a 
little awkward there. 

460
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,480
I'm not sure. 
What did you how did you take 

461
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,840
this moment, Sean? 
What did you interpret from 

462
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,560
that? 
How did you read that? 

463
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:54,800
What did? 
What did it communicate to you? 

464
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,320
I took it to mean that some fire
is dead. 

465
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,960
That's what I got from it. 
I, I, I was uncertain, but that 

466
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,760
I, I, I pay particular attention
on my second watch to exactly 

467
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,280
what he said. 
And it sounded to me like it 

468
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,000
when you add other contexts like
I left guards by the dragon or 

469
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
we sent a maestro to nothing, 
nothing else. 

470
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,080
Just he was slow in the dying. 
That was it. 

471
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,920
So. 
I don't think there's any way 

472
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,760
they took so long to to wait 
there for Sunfire to die. 

473
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,440
If Sunfire was truly long in the
dying, they didn't wait. 

474
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,800
And I think you could say Aegon 
is long in the dying too right 

475
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,720
now and he's not dead. 
So I just don't. 

476
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,880
I think if if no one stayed 
there with that dragon, I don't 

477
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,840
assume that the character is 
dead unless I've seen them dead.

478
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,960
Well he did say he left people 
with the dragon. 

479
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,760
He said he left the Garrison and
and people to guard the dragon 

480
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,320
who was who was a long time in 
the dying. 

481
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,640
Yeah, who was long in the dying?
He. 

482
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,880
Didn't say the dragon, he said 
the city, the castle. 

483
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,200
He said he left a small Garrison
at the castle. 

484
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,360
Yeah. 
With the and to match the 

485
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,840
dragon, he said he left it for 
both. 

486
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,240
He he specified both. 
So I I just personally I would 

487
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,680
not assume that Sunfire is dead 
unless I saw the dragon dead. 

488
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,680
OK. 
Yeah, we'll see. 

489
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:11,280
Yeah, I, I will say maybe he is 
alive just like Aegon, but also 

490
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,120
he's effectively not a dragon 
anymore. 

491
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,480
He's not about to take off and 
breathe fire or anything. 

492
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,200
Sure, surely in horrible shape, 
if alive at all. 

493
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,280
Yeah, so later in the episode 
Aegon does wake up, which is 

494
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,080
meaningful. 
Not necessarily a sign that he 

495
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,200
will survive, but it's a better,
it's more likely than not that 

496
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,320
it's a good sign, right? 
It's certainly the the fact that

497
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,080
he wakes up at all, and it's a 
little sad. 

498
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,200
He calls her Mummy. 
He didn't hear it. 

499
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,000
She was like on the way out the 
door. 

500
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,680
Let's talk about the council 
scene. 

501
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,160
This is pretty huge, right? 
This is where Orwell begins 

502
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,280
saying Aegon is in their hands 
now. 

503
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,720
And this is one of the the 
passing of responsibility theme 

504
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,320
of the episode that comes up 
quite a lot. 

505
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,680
And Allison brings up the 
Regency and like you said, Sean,

506
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,520
only Orwell supports her. 
It's two against seven, roughly 

507
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,520
her and him, and that's it. 
And she's kind of embarrassed. 

508
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,240
She didn't, like you said, she 
didn't see it coming. 

509
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,040
Maybe she should have, probably 
should have, but maybe not quite

510
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,040
in the way it did because 
neither Cole nor Larry Strong 

511
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,640
support her. 
And I think she thought they 

512
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,080
would be on her side. 
And Lars's argument is like, 

513
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,040
look, we're team elect the man. 
We can't. 

514
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,600
Like whether I agree with that 
or not, that's who we've made 

515
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,120
ourselves out to be, you know? 
And he passes the buck to call 

516
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,840
really brilliantly. 
He's like, you speak with the 

517
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,560
hand, speaks with the King's 
voice, you know, And he's like, 

518
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,200
he looks like he would rather be
in egg on's place than answer 

519
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,120
that question right there. 
He is so embarrassed and 

520
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,280
despondent and like Shaya said, 
will not look her in the eye. 

521
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600
Look at the you've got the 
picture ready, just refuses to 

522
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,440
meet her gaze. 
He's embarrassed about a lot of 

523
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,080
things and traumatized and just 
kind of doesn't think he has a 

524
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,280
choice. 
I think in a lot of places 

525
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,160
wasn't isn't necessarily a 
defense, but I do think that's 

526
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,760
his state of mind, right And I. 
Wondered if one thing he was 

527
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,360
thinking among all this sort of 
turmoil in him. 

528
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:04,000
I think that he is trying to 
honestly trying to be quote UN 

529
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,080
quote the hand of the king who 
would should like their role as 

530
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,520
it do what the king would do. 
And he knows if Aegon was in the

531
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,480
room right now, Aegon would pick
Eamon, not Allison I I think. 

532
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,120
I'm not sure that's true, but I 
agree with your logic. 

533
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,680
Like, I'm not sure that he would
pick his brother over over 

534
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,480
Allison, but you think he. 
Would part of what's going on in

535
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,280
Kristen's mind? 
Absolutely, yeah. 

536
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,680
I should do what the king would 
do. 

537
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,640
What would the king do with the 
king would pick Amon? 

538
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:30,880
I agree. 
What would the king do? 

539
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,040
Is the question he's trying to 
answer. 

540
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,840
His man. 
He, he's trying to go by like 

541
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,200
the standard system, like this 
is what would do. 

542
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,960
We wheel, we put the air in 
charge 'cause he's next in line.

543
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,880
That's how the system works. 
Yeah. 

544
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,480
He's just doing what's expected 
of him or what he thinks is 

545
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,160
expected of him. 
So Amon says nothing during the 

546
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,280
whole debate, just waits for it 
to play out 'cause he can see 

547
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,880
how it's going. 
He doesn't need to say anything.

548
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,960
Stands up, collects the King's 
orb, moves to the front of the 

549
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,520
table. 
And he places it very distinctly

550
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,400
in a way that's different than 
all the ways that Aegon was 

551
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,080
always playing with the ball, 
rolling it around, you know, 

552
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,800
slamming around, moving it, 
aiming very calmly, disciplinly,

553
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,760
you know, And it's decides, says
it's decided then, and then just

554
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,240
starts issuing orders. 
And it's like, wow. 

555
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,040
But we know what she says before
this is true. 

556
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,600
She says, look, this guy, he 
looks calm and disciplined, but 

557
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,200
this is the guy that lost his 
temper with Ara as a diplomat. 

558
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,200
You know, he, he's not actually 
as calm and collected as he 

559
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,160
seems. 
You know, he just puts that, 

560
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,520
that face on really, really 
well. 

561
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,400
I mean, if we're being honest, 
he does put that face on 

562
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,720
extremely well, but he's 
actually quite emotional 

563
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,440
internally. 
He just hides his emotions. 

564
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,560
He's just guarded with that. 
His one of his first. 

565
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,320
Phoenix is really good though, I
tell you. 

566
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Everyone wanted those rat 
catchers down. 

567
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,160
That was his good command. 
That was the one really good 

568
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,200
command, like thank you. 
Finally cut down the rat 

569
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,320
catchers. 
That was good. 

570
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,160
Can I say by the way, in the 
opening credit with the 

571
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,480
tapestries, how are we still 
getting the rat catchers 

572
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,640
featured and not the dancer 
Dragons featured? 

573
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,600
Because they haven't, we haven't
seen the aftermath like we have 

574
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,840
it with the the malice's head is
probably what they're gonna show

575
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,920
Todd. 
I'm guessing. 

576
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,960
That's just my theory. 
Haven't seen the episode or 

577
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,040
anything like that. 
I'm just guessing that just like

578
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,880
we don't see the actual blood 
and cheese and killing Jaharis, 

579
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,200
we see the aftermath and the the
the rat catchers. 

580
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,080
I think we'll see the body of 
the dragon Mellies in the 

581
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,960
streets. 
Too early for the history to be 

582
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,720
told. 
Whereas we, yeah, like when we 

583
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:40,840
see, we see Veigar, you know, 
and Arak see them together, I 

584
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,720
think that that is the fight, 
that is the ball. 

585
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Like that's what's remembered. 
So I don't know. 

586
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,960
Well, what what a sham saying is
that they didn't change it right

587
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,920
away after Blood and Cheese. 
They waited till after till 

588
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,560
after the rat catchers, which 
was episode 2. 

589
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,160
Blood and Cheese was episode one
and it didn't show up the taps 

590
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,960
until episode 3 till they had, 
like you said, the aftermath was

591
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,680
included anyway. 
So that is probably what will 

592
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,240
happen now. 
So as we progress through the 

593
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,000
scene, there's Allison's 
disassociating, but it's 

594
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,080
interesting what happens while 
she's disassociating. 

595
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,000
And we talked about that, but 
not what was said. 

596
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,920
Besides the order to close the 
gates, the other thing that 

597
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,200
comes up is that Eamon comes 
after Larry's like right away. 

598
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,760
Like but not and not in the same
way that Aegon did. 

599
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,600
He's like, it's your castle. 
You know, you let him have what 

600
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,160
Aegon said. 
But in this case she's like, why

601
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600
would I trust a man who let the 
jewel of the Riverlands fall 

602
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,120
into our enemies heads? 
It's a very different approach. 

603
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,440
And Aemon doesn't or Larry's 
doesn't say anything. 

604
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,720
And remember Sean, this guy 
hates Strong's. 

605
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,720
It's a very different vibe. 
It's it's personal to him, which

606
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,680
Larry's might be very wary of. 
You might be like, Oh yeah, this

607
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,400
is bad. 
So a developing situation there.

608
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,680
There's not much we can say 
about it now other than 

609
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,160
guesswork, but it's a, it's 
something to keep an eye on. 

610
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,000
Did you catch that? 
Was that did that occur to you 

611
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,040
at the in the time that it's a 
strong thing or? 

612
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,240
I didn't think of it in that 
way, but I did think of it in 

613
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,600
the I don't know. 
I think Larry's knows the 

614
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,520
potential trouble he's in, 
right? 

615
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,480
I think he, I think he's got 
this plotted out. 

616
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Maybe I'm giving him too much 
credit, but he seems to be very 

617
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,760
aware and forward thinking. 
And he probably knew he's got to

618
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,720
put his tail between his legs, 
both Aegon and Amon, and just 

619
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,480
let his work speak for itself. 
That that's what I think he's 

620
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,360
going to do is like, look, I 
know you distrust me, but I'm 

621
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,160
going to get XYZ dump for you 
and you'll appreciate it and. 

622
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,480
That's his MO. 
I think you're totally right. 

623
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:32,440
That's a really good way to put 
it. 

624
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,600
I wonder, I mean you brought up 
him distrusting Lauris because 

625
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,440
of whatever the strong 
connection. 

626
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,880
I'm curious how much Aymond is 
aware of his Allison connection.

627
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,440
Because Aymond does have some 
distrust of his mother and 

628
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,000
certainly of of people having 
other agents. 

629
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,240
If he he might have some 
suspicion of Lauris's connection

630
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,680
to his mother, especially if he 
know has any suspicion of 

631
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,040
anything untoward ever happening
between them, then he would 

632
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,080
really not like Laurie. 
So I mean, extra Laurie's really

633
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,360
needed to support Aymond there 
in addition to you would be he. 

634
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,400
He's right for the reason he 
said. 

635
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,960
He gave a good reason when he 
said that it wouldn't look good 

636
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,080
for them. 
But I think he was also right in

637
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,600
that he has to really support 
Aymond so that he's not just 

638
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,000
like removed from the council. 
Yeah. 

639
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,760
Allison didn't perceive that 
that was his problem. 

640
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,880
He has to be suck up to Aymond 
or or he could be in big 

641
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,240
trouble. 
She didn't catch that. 

642
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,720
Yeah. 
Right. 

643
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,120
I think that was Laurie's 
probably had everyone on the 

644
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,800
council pegged pretty well about
how it was going to go. 

645
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,520
And even if it turned out they 
wanted to put Allison in charge,

646
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,040
he still needed to be on Amon's 
side. 

647
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,800
And then if they choose Allison,
fine, it's easy to go back to 

648
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,360
her. 
But. 

649
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,800
Yeah, I agree with that. 
So Amon thinks he's smarter than

650
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,960
his brother 'cause he's like, 
well, I wouldn't make that rat 

651
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,000
catcher mistake or do all this 
Kingsguard, you know, nonsense. 

652
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,480
But he closes the gates like a 
dummy. 

653
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,480
And Allison Otto would not have 
done that and would not have 

654
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480
done that. 
So let's talk about Colin 

655
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Allison's conversations. 
There's two of them, plus their 

656
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,760
interaction during the council 
session, which of course colors 

657
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800
it all. 
But the first ones before that, 

658
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,320
The first was before she's 
ousted. 

659
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,640
And this is when she comes to 
talk to him about what happened 

660
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,680
during the battle. 
He's cleaning his sword, another

661
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,040
great sign of guilt. 
He's wiping the blood off his 

662
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:19,800
sword. 
It's still there. 

663
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,240
It's hard to clean off, just 
like it was hard. 

664
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,800
She was scrubbing the guilt off 
of herself a few episodes ago. 

665
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,360
Also in futility. 
It's very similar the the two 

666
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,920
moments I think. 
I also think it's indicative of 

667
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,640
he's doing what he knows right 
now. 

668
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,960
He's got a lot of uncertainty 
and confusion and frustration, 

669
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,560
but he knows how to be a knight.
He knows how to maintain his, 

670
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320
you know, the, the let me just 
do the one thing I know I can do

671
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,320
right and clean my sword. 
You know, he's trying to, like, 

672
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,560
find some sort of comfort and 
control over his life. 

673
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,240
I like that. 
Yeah. 

674
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,600
Populated right now. 
Like a simple task to kind of 

675
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,400
center yourself. 
Yeah, it's a little slightly 

676
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,840
meditative, I suppose, but it's 
it's still stained with this 

677
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,680
blood of of his thing because he
talks about she comes in and 

678
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,640
he's like, yeah, 900 casualties 
at Rooks Rest and that's they 

679
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600
they turned it up 1 notch from 
the book, which had 800 

680
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,600
casualties. 
And they're like, take that 

681
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:13,920
George. 
We're a little bloodier. 

682
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,920
So but any and it's he's not the
kind of man that like tries to 

683
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,719
hide his emotions. 
He's already a little stoic, but

684
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,760
he's less stoic now after what 
he's seen. 

685
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,239
And when she's like, well, what 
happened in the battle? 

686
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,040
And he's like the king fought 
valiantly. 

687
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,239
It's a very just diplomatic, 
straightforward what about 

688
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,440
Eamon? 
And then he just stops. 

689
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,920
He's like, I couldn't say. 
And you know, he surely has his 

690
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,679
suspicions, but this is, yeah, 
it's hard to tell what's going 

691
00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:44,280
on in the air. 
He also realizes probably in 

692
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,800
that long walk home with the 
dragon head behind him, that 

693
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,239
Amon's going to be leading them 
from now. 

694
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,639
And he already knows that. 
And he's not going to as a 

695
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:51,800
knight. 
Like you said, Sean, he's a 

696
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,199
hand. 
He's Lord Commander, the 

697
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,080
Kingsguard. 
He's not going to speak 

698
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,280
disloyally to the guy about the 
guy that's leading them now. 

699
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,360
Like it's like we're all, it's 
like calling out the president 

700
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,080
during war time. 
Like, you know, you just don't. 

701
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,080
That's the thing you just don't 
do when you're on, especially 

702
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:07,800
when you're higher up on the 
same team. 

703
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,760
I also think that this 
conversation it reminds me of in

704
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,120
a certain way. 
It reminds me of the 

705
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,560
conversation Allison had with 
Orwell when he brought her the 

706
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,880
the moon T Kristen isn't giving 
her direct answers, but he is 

707
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,560
effectively still answering her 
questions. 

708
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,960
The fact that he doesn't answer 
is answering the questions that 

709
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,520
makes sense. 
Like she knows what she he's 

710
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,040
asking, he knows what she's 
asking, and his avoidance of the

711
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,040
answers is the answer. 
Yeah, she tells him everything. 

712
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,600
Yeah, you're totally right. 
That tells her everything she 

713
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,440
needs to know, which confirms 
her worst fears. 

714
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,000
Like, yeah, I think he did it on
purpose, but she's he's not 

715
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,720
entirely sure. 
But the fact that it might be 

716
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:46,600
true is is bothersome and 
worrisome enough. 

717
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,160
And this is part of the conflict
of being Lord Commander in hand.

718
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,000
These these roles don't always 
fit together. 

719
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,400
If you're the Hand or the 
Regent, you speak with the 

720
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,080
King's voice. 
But the Lord commander is 

721
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,720
supposed to keep the King's 
secrets. 

722
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,040
And those two things right now 
are very much at odds in this 

723
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,520
moment of what happened at the 
battle and what was the Regent 

724
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,280
doing? 
You know, it was his intention. 

725
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,160
So, yeah, now the second time 
they have their conversation, 

726
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,040
it's after she's basically 
ousted from the council and Cole

727
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,960
is taking down the rat catchers 
and we got cheese dog, AKA Bobby

728
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,640
the dog right there. 
It's great, you know, But 

729
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,480
Kristen is no longer Allison's 
lap dog. 

730
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,320
He's amons. 
He's not happy about it, but 

731
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,960
doesn't exactly resist. 
As we just as we just said, she 

732
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,680
sees it as not just a personal 
betrayal, but a moral betrayal. 

733
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,520
Like you were supposed to be my 
ally. 

734
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,040
Like this is part of why we were
banging, you know, we'd we'd 

735
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,040
help each other, But that's that
part's kind of simple. 

736
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,360
Like you betrayed me on a 
personal level, but the morality

737
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,800
is like, look, we you, you just 
told me without telling me, as 

738
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,880
you expertly pointed out, Sean, 
that you know what kind of man 

739
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,680
this is, that you know what 
we're dealing with, yet you 

740
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,960
still elected him to be in 
charge. 

741
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640
You know, like you said, Sean, 
this guy good general probably, 

742
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,080
but like, look at he's already 
made a bad decision. 

743
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,840
His hand and and Eamon did too, 
but he doesn't recognize that he

744
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,680
made a bad decision. 
She doesn't point that out 

745
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,520
directly. 
And I mean, it would be, it's 

746
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,760
too late to like, it's not going
to change anything. 

747
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,680
You know, I think you asked the 
shale last time if I thought 

748
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,400
Kristen and Cole could read and 
write. 

749
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,000
He's walking around with like a 
notebook and. 

750
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,600
He got a letter last time too, 
last last episode. 

751
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Yeah, he he's, it's been proven 
that he can. 

752
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,200
Which makes me glad that that 
he's more competent as the hand 

753
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,400
than he might have been. 
So Cole thinks he's saving her a

754
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,120
bit by like, look, we're going 
to have to do terrible things. 

755
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,880
And he's been traumatized by 
those terrible things. 

756
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,240
He doesn't want her to be 
traumatized by that too, or to 

757
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:45,960
be responsible for it. 
Now, again, he doesn't have the 

758
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,160
best thought process here about 
everything. 

759
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,280
His heart might be sort of in 
the right place, but it's it's 

760
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,520
not the it's wrong from what she
wants. 

761
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,720
She finds it insulting. 
She's like, no, I'm a leader. 

762
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,880
I can handle it as much as you 
can. 

763
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:00,960
And she repudiates him on both 
counts. 

764
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,040
The again, the personal and the 
professional. 

765
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,720
I wonder if their relationship 
is over. 

766
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,160
I don't think they've hooked up 
since he's been named Hand and 

767
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,880
it doesn't look good for that 
right now. 

768
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,960
We'll have to see. 
There's more eyes on him, he's 

769
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,480
got more duties bringing him to 
more places. 

770
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,600
He's out in the field like 
there's this 1,000,000 reasons 

771
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,480
in addition to like the 
emotional ones, the the physical

772
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,520
situations that they find 
themselves in, the political 

773
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,680
responsibilities, everything. 
Yeah, I feel like he, he just 

774
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,280
can't be the companion to her 
that he was before. 

775
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,920
He just can't. 
Yeah, this is this is a major 

776
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,200
fall for Allison. 
She has lost almost all of her 

777
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,520
power in a flash. 
She has no position on the 

778
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,720
council anymore. 
She no longer has personal power

779
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,200
over her son because Aegon was 
at least somewhat malleable, 

780
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:48,560
somewhat. 
Listen to her. 

781
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,600
Doesn't have that with Aymond. 
Larry is no longer really on her

782
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,800
side and Larry says well at 
least he might not be visiting 

783
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,320
her anymore with his creepiness 
'cause there's less reason for 

784
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,800
him too. 
She doesn't have the power for 

785
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,640
him to exploit and she doesn't 
have power over call anymore 

786
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,640
there's no personal power there 
He's not listening to her. 

787
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,360
He's not doing what she wants. 
So it's like, wow, that's just 

788
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,520
all of her influence is gone 
really quickly. 

789
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,240
Come kind of like 2 episodes 
ago, she and her father were 

790
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:17,000
planning, well I'll stay here 
and continue to make pave a way,

791
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,520
maybe you can return. 
Well, that's gone in completely 

792
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,240
the opposite direction. 
Regarding whether the 

793
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,920
relationship is over or 
whatever, I took her saying 

794
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,840
don't call me Allison, keep my 
name out of your mouth, 

795
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,960
whatever, as being like we're no
longer together. 

796
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,320
Yeah, I agree. 
I always gave it, left it open 

797
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,560
'cause you know, sometimes 
people say things and get back 

798
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,280
together. 
I don't, you know, but and of 

799
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,320
course not a book plot, so we 
have no idea. 

800
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,520
I really love this scene, 
though, by the way. 

801
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,600
It was one of my favorite scenes
because I did feel that it was 

802
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,800
so nuanced with, I mean, 
Christian has kind of a pretty 

803
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,200
noble intention with what he 
says to Allison. 

804
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,680
And I don't think he's wrong. 
And I don't think she's wrong 

805
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,920
either that she kind of wants to
be given that choice and that 

806
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,840
ability, but I think she's 
better off not. 

807
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,440
Being intimately aware with the 
atrocities of war. 

808
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,520
Everyone is better off not 
knowing. 

809
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,280
So like, you know, like I, I, I 
see his point here really. 

810
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,080
Like any any half decent person 
would try to save someone they 

811
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,240
care about from being party to 
that right. 

812
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,920
She doesn't fully know what 
she's turning down or saying 

813
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,320
you're saving me from. 
She didn't see the battlefield. 

814
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,280
She didn't see what he saw. 
So that's part of his, if you 

815
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,000
want to argue a little bit in 
Kristen's favor. 

816
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,080
And I agree with you, It's very 
nuanced. 

817
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,440
No one is completely in the 
right here. 

818
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,040
No one's completely in the wrong
here. 

819
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:43,640
And I also agree it was an 
amazing scene. 

820
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,400
This is part of why I picked 
Fabian Frankel as one of my top 

821
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,080
actors. 
Again, Olivia Cook was also 

822
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,400
fantastic. 
But yeah, yeah, they're both. 

823
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,880
Yeah. 
It's just really complicated. 

824
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,040
And one of the horrors of war. 
I put some of these situations 

825
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,000
that the best you can do is 
horrible. 

826
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,920
Like your best option is still a
horrible one. 

827
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,160
I want to point out there's a 
parallel in that scene with the 

828
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,880
council when she's kind of just 
like kind of reeling back from 

829
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,840
having lost her position and the
camera's kind of focusing on her

830
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,560
while all these other 
conversation decisions are being

831
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,080
made. 
It was very similar to what 

832
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,120
happened in the Black Council 
with Ranira. 

833
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,200
And she ends up saying it to 
Missaria, but she's like, 

834
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,760
they're talking around me, you 
know what I mean? 

835
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,760
That's was exactly what was 
happening to Allison. 

836
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,240
The same thing was happening to 
the. 

837
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,520
Yeah, you're totally right. 
Leader and woman, the matriarch 

838
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,760
of each of the councils, were 
being treated pretty much the 

839
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,960
same way by the men around them.
And the side that it was more 

840
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,200
open to women leadership in the 
1st place is the side where 

841
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,080
that's kind of working itself 
out a bit, or at least seems to 

842
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,720
be on a decent track, where here
Allison's just out. 

843
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,480
She's just out of power now. 
Like there's not a woman on that

844
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,840
council anymore. 
They have like that. 

845
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,480
That influence is gone, and it 
kind of Harkins back to Rainey's

846
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,160
telling her that. 
Like, you know, you didn't, You 

847
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,680
don't want to. 
You don't have freedom. 

848
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,920
You want to carve a whole window
in your prison. 

849
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,480
And that window has been shut. 
And like, if, if Alice. 

850
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,760
Yeah. 
If Allison was over on the Black

851
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,960
side, she'd still have a voice 
of counsel, probably. 

852
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,960
So throne room on the opposite 
end of the power spectrum. 

853
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,560
Allison's falling the farthest 
this episode. 

854
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,280
Ayman has risen the most, almost
certainly. 

855
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,120
That's a fact. 
He stares at the throne like 

856
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,080
many before him, including Damon
or Littlefinger. 

857
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,200
Therefore, a lot of characters 
have just kind of stared in 

858
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,520
silent reverie at the throne. 
It's a kind of a classic Game of

859
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,520
Thrones way to show somebody's 
ambition or they're considering 

860
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,640
the nature of power or their 
power. 

861
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,360
But there's a few tweaks here to
to the vibe, to the usual 

862
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,200
approach. 
At one point, it angles up at 

863
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,720
him, which makes it look like 
he's looking down on the throne,

864
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,880
which is sort of like he's not 
the king. 

865
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,960
He's the region, he's in control
of the king, he's in control of 

866
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,200
the throne. 
He's looking down on it. 

867
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,240
But also he was looking down on 
his brother in that sick bed, 

868
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,520
right? 
He was looking down on him and 

869
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,400
kind of looking down of him 
metaphorically because he thinks

870
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,960
he's superior to him. 
We actually, First off the scene

871
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,640
would be a dream we first saw in
trailers and stuff like that, 

872
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,400
had that vibe Damon's also had. 
It was like, oh, it might be a 

873
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,120
parallel to Damon's dream, but 
no, it was not. 

874
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,280
But there is a dreamer present, 
A twist. 

875
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,400
Not a dream, but but features a 
dreamer. 

876
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,440
Helena kind of sneaks up on him 
like that. 

877
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,640
Like did she know he was there? 
It's like, this is cool. 

878
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,800
How did? 
Very interesting moment. 

879
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,960
She asked if it was worth the 
price. 

880
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,640
But of course, like so many 
other times in this episode, he 

881
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,480
keeps his thoughts and feelings 
to himself, even though this is 

882
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,600
maybe one of the few people he 
might open up to a little bit. 

883
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,960
Can I say I I love the phrasing?
It wasn't worth the price here. 

884
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:51,440
It's such a loaded question. 
It made me think of the price 

885
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,640
for Veigar of losing his eye 
with like that like that. 

886
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,800
There's one price, like how many
price Amon paid, you know, you 

887
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,520
think about like the death of of
Luke. 

888
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,600
You know, about the price of the
obvious thought is Aegon the 

889
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,000
price of being, you know, being 
another kinslayer potentially of

890
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,560
taking him out Because then it 
immediately cut from this scene 

891
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,560
to Aegon to make you put that in
your head. 

892
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,400
But I think because it's Elena, 
I think it can't just be about 

893
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,080
Aegon. 
I feel that it's when she says 

894
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,680
something like this, I I feel it
has layers and the the first 

895
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,520
layer I thought of was Veigar in
his eye. 

896
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,760
I like it. 
I wonder if it might be, I don't

897
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,800
know what word he's exactly 
betraying Allison, betraying his

898
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,680
mom, Because it seemed like 
Helena does still have a strong 

899
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,240
bond with her mom. 
And now she's going to Amon, who

900
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:42,840
just kind of stepped all over 
their mom. 

901
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,720
And was it worth the price, you 
know, is it worth the training 

902
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:47,520
your family as a whole, you 
know? 

903
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,480
It's a very good point. 
Yeah, I guess I love, I just 

904
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,360
love the phrasing, how you can 
see so many layers to a single 

905
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,080
phrase like that, Right. 
Yeah. 

906
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,720
And she there are a lot of 
layers to her phrase. 

907
00:44:57,720 --> 00:45:00,920
I I felt like when she said the 
boy is dead like sure her 

908
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:02,760
wording. 
Like but they killed the boy. 

909
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,240
Allows for a lot of 
interpretation. 

910
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:04,880
Yeah. 
Shot. 

911
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:05,760
They killed the boy. 
Yeah. 

912
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:06,400
Thank you. 
Sorry. 

913
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,640
Yeah. 
Yeah, I loved your breakdown. 

914
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,120
If they killed the boy shot, 
that was really the more I 

915
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:10,240
thought about it, the more I 
liked it. 

916
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:14,160
Just way back to two weeks ago. 
3 weeks ago. 

917
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,120
Her phrasing does allow for a 
lot of interpretation. 

918
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,720
Yeah, it really does. 
And I just like there's a lot of

919
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:22,760
interpretation as to Amon's 
actions and part of his 

920
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,960
inscrutability makes it even 
harder to tell. 

921
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,480
And I think he's channelling 
Aegon the Conqueror a bit here. 

922
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,760
He he was also unscrutable and 
wasn't a man that liked to show 

923
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,640
his emotions or let people know 
what he was thinking. 

924
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,800
He sort of projected a vibe. 
It's a, it's a, it's a different

925
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,800
sort of power vibe. 
Like I don't owe anyone answers.

926
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,560
That's how above you all I am. 
I owe you nothing. 

927
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,920
You know, you are beneath me. 
It's a, it's a different kind of

928
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,880
power. 
It's a stone face. 

929
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,520
But but again, we know it's a 
facade with Aegon the Conqueror.

930
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,200
It might have been legit with 
Aemond. 

931
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,520
He's a rage of emot. 
He's a he's a, he's got all 

932
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,360
sorts of things going on in that
head, right? 

933
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,760
He's got a temper, but at least 
he goes to therapy. 

934
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:06,800
But but so does Tony Soprano, 
you know, Now here's a question.

935
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,680
Otto might look a little better 
in retrospect in some ways, not 

936
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,640
in others. 
In saying that, keeping Damon 

937
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,120
off the throne the way Damon's 
been acting as well, of course, 

938
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,200
we'll get to. 
It's like, man, it's making Otto

939
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,520
look more and more right about 
avoiding a King Damon. 

940
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,960
But is it really better with 
this effective King Amon? 

941
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,760
Yes, Regent technically, but 
effectively King Amon. 

942
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,120
Is that any better? 
I don't, I don't know. 

943
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,520
It's six of one, half dozen of 
the other. 

944
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,560
And right now Amon is more 
capable of doing damage than 

945
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:42,600
Damon is because he has a bigger
dragon and he has more absolute 

946
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,160
power over his faction. 
Right now, Damon is a rogue from

947
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,680
his face. 
He's literally the Rogue Prince.

948
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,960
Like his book character name or 
title or, you know, nickname. 

949
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,080
Rainier has less control over 
the blacks that Ayman has right 

950
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,280
now, even though she's a queen 
and he's, you know, a region. 

951
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:00,360
And they're also more scattered 
and not in possession of the 

952
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,480
throne or capital. 
So Ayman is probably the most 

953
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,240
powerful character at this 
moment. 

954
00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:08,520
Of course, that's subject to 
change within two minutes of the

955
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,400
next episode, or it could last 
for several more episodes and in

956
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,840
the next season, we'll we'll 
see. 

957
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,360
But I think that's a fair 
statement. 

958
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,040
What do you think, Sean? 
You think that's about right, 

959
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,240
Ayman, the most powerful right 
now. 

960
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,360
I think so. 
And I will say, even though 

961
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,640
we've seen Eamon do some, I 
don't know, unscrupulous things,

962
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,280
I I still feel like he has more.
I can't think of the exact word 

963
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,160
I want to use. 
Honor, integrity, 

964
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,360
predictability, even maybe than 
Damon or some other character. 

965
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,280
More of a code, maybe you know, 
but maybe it's not a maybe not a

966
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,120
moral or, you know, I wouldn't 
call, I didn't say a moral code,

967
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,680
but a code. 
'Cause I don't think that he 

968
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,320
seems to have this I I guess 
it's interesting that I don't 

969
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,840
exactly know what his goal is. 
He, he, maybe he feels like he 

970
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,640
should be king. 
Like I prepared for this better 

971
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,920
than anyone else. 
I am more skilled, more 

972
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,120
knowledgeable than Aegon or most
of these other people, right? 

973
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,360
Like I and so maybe he feels 
like he should be it, but I 

974
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,160
don't think he's like, I want to
be king so I can go take over 

975
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,440
Essos or I can tax the poor or I
can rape a bunch of women. 

976
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,280
He doesn't seem to have a bunch 
of like vicious, scary 

977
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,520
motivations beyond ambition for 
the throne where Damon Damon 

978
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,800
just seems like he just wants to
do whatever makes him happy, 

979
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,280
whoever might suffer in the 
meantime. 

980
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,320
He doesn't seem like he wants to
be king to being peace to the 

981
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,440
land or something. 
He just feels like it. 

982
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,200
I don't know how to say. 
You see what I'm saying? 

983
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:34,480
I. 
Don't think we know why Amy does

984
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,920
either, but you're right. 
Yeah, he seems more 

985
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,640
unpredictable with the power 
that he might have. 

986
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,240
I, I, I think you know that. 
My, my best guess is if we flash

987
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:46,480
forward and Amond is king and 
the war is over, he will have 

988
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,280
relatively good policies. 
He will listen to his counsel. 

989
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,320
He will, you know, be prudent. 
Perhaps Damon will be wild and 

990
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,440
crazy and go off and be 
literally absent. 

991
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,440
He'll just be gone and people 
won't even know where he is. 

992
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:58,600
You know that's. 
Entirely possible I. 

993
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,120
Still, imagine Amond would be a 
little bit too much of a hard 

994
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,720
liner with some things. 
I mean, even as we saw him 

995
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:08,280
closing the gates, I think he 
might make some drastic choices 

996
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,960
that might lead to some 
heartache. 

997
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,960
But I think you're overall right
that in a time of peace, I think

998
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,160
he would be 1/2 decent king. 
And I think with time and 

999
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,960
experience he would probably 
learn better and take counsel 

1000
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,600
and stuff. 
But this is a time of war, and I

1001
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,880
don't think in a time of war 
he's going to be as prudent as 

1002
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,760
you're talking about. 
Well, I maybe not, but he's not 

1003
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,520
going to be. 
He can't be much worse than 

1004
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,280
Damon. 
Damon just started a terror 

1005
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,640
campaign, you know, so I maybe 
Ayman would do that too, but I. 

1006
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,160
Well, yeah, he did. 
I mean. 

1007
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,160
Ayman did this in a time of war 
I'm more likely to forget. 

1008
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,160
Ayman has, let's be clear, Ayman
has already done this to just to

1009
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,560
correct you slightly here, Sean,
I do agree with most of what you

1010
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,120
said, but Kristen Cole and Ayman
planned together. 

1011
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,320
He wasn't there to do it, but it
was part of his plan. 

1012
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,440
He signed off on it to sack 
Duskendale. 

1013
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,880
They did despoiled families, 
took loot, raped women. 

1014
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,120
All that happened there too. 
Maybe not quite as bad, maybe 

1015
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,720
there wasn't. 
There's probably less abuse of 

1016
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,240
women there, but it was still 
houses looted. 

1017
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,040
Despoiling, yeah, despoiling for
sure, But it's it's the same 

1018
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,560
thing. 
They're they're forcing 

1019
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,720
conscripts to charge into a 
dragon and you know, it's not 

1020
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:22,680
that different. 
I do agree with you, though, 

1021
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,640
overall that Damon is more 
certainly a problem. 

1022
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,520
Aymond, he doesn't wear his 
emotions on his sleeves. 

1023
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,800
Damon does. 
That's a big difference. 

1024
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,040
That's a big difference between 
the two of them is that you know

1025
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,760
more about what Damon's about. 
He is does not hide his. 

1026
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,760
And when he tries to hide it, it
comes out anyway. 

1027
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,560
He's not. 
He's kind of bad at that. 

1028
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:45,600
Amon just just very keeps it in.
I just, yeah, I don't have as 

1029
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,520
much faith in that. 
I think it's like I see the 

1030
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,520
darkness there. 
And that's got nothing to do 

1031
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,000
with what I think is coming in 
the books. 

1032
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,080
Just this version of the 
character just seemed like the 

1033
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,960
way they frame him, the way 
they're trying to make him look,

1034
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,920
they make him look pretty 
villainous and but they 

1035
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,360
definitely leave doubt anyway. 
Maybe I'm still too hung up on 

1036
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,640
the moment when he killed Luke 
that he seemed to regret it and 

1037
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,480
then they brought it up again 
when he was talking to Sylvie. 

1038
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,920
He he seems to have regret for 
that moment, but it sort of just

1039
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,840
accepted his role like, well, 
we're at war, I killed him. 

1040
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,520
I can't, it doesn't matter if I 
apologize. 

1041
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,800
I just have to own it. 
And for better or worse, I feel 

1042
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,040
like that's some of the dark 
things he's doing are just 

1043
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,680
acceptance of this conflict, not
that necessarily makes it OK. 

1044
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,640
Whereas a lot of the dark things
that Damon do just because he's 

1045
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,200
greedy and selfish and you know,
inconsiderate or whatever. 

1046
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:38,040
So Sean, something I I realized 
recently was plenty of things 

1047
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,280
happen off screen off off TV 
screen or whatever. 

1048
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,960
But Ayman, I think as far as we 
have seen has only killed 

1049
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,240
someone via his dragon. 
We have not seen on our TV 

1050
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:55,480
screens Aymond kill anyone like 
with via sword or or he hasn't 

1051
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,240
had a personal. 
Kill he. 

1052
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,040
Stomped on tons of people. 
He's definitely killed people. 

1053
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,600
He killed Luke in a little bit 
more of a personal way and he 

1054
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,840
felt regret. 
I, I'm super curious if it's 

1055
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,560
possible he has just killed 
someone in hand to hand combat. 

1056
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:11,560
But I don't know. 
I don't know if he has, you 

1057
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,240
know, And I, I, I wonder. 
I don't know that I expect to 

1058
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:19,240
see him feel awful about killing
someone in hand to hand combat, 

1059
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:21,680
but it's interesting to me that 
he maybe hasn't. 

1060
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,280
If he has, they haven't showed 
it to us. 

1061
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,520
Definitely showed us Damon do it
over and over again. 

1062
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,480
One thing I disagree with you on
there, Sean, is we clearly are 

1063
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,840
seeing Damon does have guilt and
he does have remorse. 

1064
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,080
That's a big part of what his 
dreams are about, like showing 

1065
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,320
that he does have these 
emotions. 

1066
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,040
It's just that his ambition over
is is stronger than his guilt 

1067
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,240
for now. 
Maybe it's how it's going to 

1068
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:46,720
stay, but it's those dreams 
prove that he's not entirely a 

1069
00:52:46,720 --> 00:52:49,560
sociopath. 
He does actually care and Damon 

1070
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,600
maybe does too. 
It's just less clear with him 

1071
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,160
because as we keep saying he's, 
he's more guarded and that it's 

1072
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,920
harder to to perceive what's on 
his mind. 

1073
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,160
My friends, if you are enjoying 
our content, we sure do have a 

1074
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,480
lot more coming this season and 
we've been working pretty hard 

1075
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,400
as Shia does so much editing. 
It's crazy how much we hit the 

1076
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,680
road and hit the road. 
Put the rubber to the road 

1077
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,120
during the season. 
And if you want to pitch in and 

1078
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,400
then help our efforts, you can 
go over to our website, 

1079
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,360
historyofwesteros.com and pick 
one of the different ways to 

1080
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,760
support us. 
The most straightforward way is 

1081
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,560
to click on the Patreon link and
you can of course, go straight 

1082
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:29,320
there, www.patreon.com/history 
of Westeros and sign up. 

1083
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,200
You can get a lot of bonus 
episodes. 

1084
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,520
You get bonus content, you get 
your cool nickname. 

1085
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,760
If you are so inclined, we can 
pick one for you or you can tell

1086
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,760
us what you have in mind. 
If you already want a name, 

1087
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,040
those names get read aloud 
during our occasional scripted 

1088
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,800
episodes. 
We also have things like access 

1089
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,680
to our notes and which means our
scripts and stuff like that, a 

1090
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,080
lot of great stuff. 
And so if you're consuming a lot

1091
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,920
of our content, why not sign up?
Why not get extra, even more 

1092
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,840
content and help keep the show 
as strong as it could be? 

1093
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,080
And of course, showing up on our
Twitch streams on Friday is 

1094
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,840
another fun way to support the 
show indirectly because that is 

1095
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:08,600
a good fun time, but it is also 
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1096
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:09,680
a little bit of revenue from 
that. 

1097
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,720
So if you show up at twitch.tv 
History of Westeros Fridays at 

1098
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,560
six, we have a lot of fun with 
that. 

1099
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,000
We have what's called the Large 
Council, where y'all vote on 

1100
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,160
things like what to name my 
characters and what to name 

1101
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,080
castles and what decisions to 
make, whether to go to war, 

1102
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,760
whether to murder somebody, 
whether to make whether to make 

1103
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,720
an example of all the criminals 
by sticking them up on spikes 

1104
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:34,680
around the castle or with the 
name our pet dog, or whether to 

1105
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,560
try to hatch a dragon egg with 
blood magic. 

1106
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,320
There's all sorts of weird 
things in that game, but that's 

1107
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,080
really cool. 
You can even do a Red Wedding in

1108
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,240
that. 
In that game, it's called a 

1109
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,000
massacre wedding. 
It's the generic. 

1110
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,400
The generic version is called a 
massacre wedding because the Red

1111
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Wedding is a very specific one. 
So yeah, I wish I had more time 

1112
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,360
to deep dive into the music. 
It's one of the parts of the 

1113
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,120
show that is one of my favorites
yet. 

1114
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,560
I like research the least. 
I just kind of enjoy it. 

1115
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,120
But I've been noticing this 
season there's a lot of 

1116
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,760
variations on songs that we've 
used before, which is a normal 

1117
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,600
thing to do. 
It's, you know, it's like a 

1118
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,400
light motif kind of returning to
a theme, but doing it a little 

1119
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,800
bit differently. 
And I rely on my phone a lot to 

1120
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,280
identify songs with some of 
these. 

1121
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,600
These, even though they're 
similar to existing ones, the 

1122
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,560
phone doesn't know that it's 
it's different. 

1123
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,000
So it doesn't recognize that 
similarity. 

1124
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,560
It's not like, hey, what is this
similar to? 

1125
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,480
That's not how it works. 
So I can't wait for those to be 

1126
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,440
published so that we can 
identify them and have them have

1127
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,280
those names going forward. 
Cause occasionally it's very 

1128
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,400
telling. 
Like remember at the beginning 

1129
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,240
of the season with Goodbye 
Brother, how meaningful that was

1130
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,400
to that song choice. 
And part of the reason we knew 

1131
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,320
we, we noticed that is because 
it's such an iconic song, the 

1132
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,280
Stark theme song basically. 
But some of these other ones are

1133
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,120
like that one's familiar. 
It sounds sort of Targaryen. 

1134
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,960
It's one of those Danny songs, 
but I don't know exactly which 

1135
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,960
one it is. 
And I bet there's more going on.

1136
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,040
I bet there's a little message 
here and there that I'm missing.

1137
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,640
You know, I want to make a 
similar comment. 

1138
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,880
The lure of this show is so 
thick and the the the plot and 

1139
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,720
the characters are so rich that 
that's enough to like take up 

1140
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,480
all our attention and our 
discussion. 

1141
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,320
But jeez, the cinematography is 
freaking beautiful. 

1142
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,120
I think this episode especially 
is a couple unique things about 

1143
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,800
it that that those opening 
couple shots with Ranira, you 

1144
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,360
know, looking out on the ocean. 
And there was a scene when they 

1145
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,560
kind of showed Damon, he's 
laying down. 

1146
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,320
But the camera kind of turns the
angle and, and even the just 

1147
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,920
the, the backdrop, the setting 
there, the just the engraving on

1148
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,520
the wall behind him. 
Like there's so many things that

1149
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:35,680
segue when he leans against the 
fireplace and it cuts to Ranira 

1150
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:36,800
leaning. 
Against the fireplace. 

1151
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,120
Is a lot of like, yeah, 
cinematic and editing decisions 

1152
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,440
that I just love about the show 
that understandably get over 

1153
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,760
shadowed by the great 
performances and the great story

1154
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:47,560
and everything, but I just 
wanted to bring all that stuff 

1155
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:48,880
to light real quick. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

1156
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,880
I mean, and if we're being 
honest, that's like me 

1157
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,960
personally, I'm just not as good
at talking about that kind of 

1158
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,200
thing. 
Like, I noticed these things, 

1159
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,360
but I have, I don't, I don't 
always have the words for them 

1160
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:57,440
and I don't know what to say 
about those. 

1161
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,120
Like, that was really cool, you 
know? 

1162
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,920
But yeah, we're all enjoying it.
Same thing with the music. 

1163
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,840
OK, I, I pay attention to it, 
but I have less to to say about 

1164
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,920
it. 
So we go over to Dragonstone. 

1165
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:11,400
The quote women aren't trained 
in war point comes up over here 

1166
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:12,840
as well, and it's handled a 
little better. 

1167
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,000
Now, this is interesting to me. 
I've been thinking about this a 

1168
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,720
lot and I've been trying to 
figure out how to parse the 

1169
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,960
misogyny from the gist. 
Well, yeah, you don't have war 

1170
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,680
experience, which is a fairpoint
to a certain extent. 

1171
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,120
And I think it comes out very 
clearly in the scene where that 

1172
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:32,800
distinction is right here, is 
very, very calmly explains it. 

1173
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,680
Like, yeah, you're right. 
I don't have experience in war, 

1174
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,720
but you don't either. 
You only have theoretical 

1175
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,040
training, which counts for 
something. 

1176
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:42,800
It definitely does. 
You know, you spent all that 

1177
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,120
time in the saddle and hitting 
each other with your swords. 

1178
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:47,840
Even though it was practice. 
That counts for a little 

1179
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,000
something. 
All those time reading books and

1180
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,120
studying strategy, that counts 
for something. 

1181
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:58,000
But the laughing at her, the 
talking over her, you would not 

1182
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,920
do that to a man and you would 
not. 

1183
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,880
And it's not because she's not 
good with the swords, like, oh, 

1184
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,480
that's why I'm talking over you 
'cause you're bad at fighting. 

1185
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,800
That's not a good reason. 
Like, Can you imagine the master

1186
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,080
of coin talking? 
I was like, oh, you don't 

1187
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,560
understand finance, my queen, 
let me tell you how it really 

1188
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,640
is. 
Like let me or the master of 

1189
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,640
laws, like you don't understand 
laws, my queen, let me tell you,

1190
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,480
Ha ha, that's so dumb, you know,
like that, that's not going to. 

1191
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,840
So it's not a good reason to 
treat her like that. 

1192
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,600
But when it was distilled in 
this moment when she brings when

1193
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,960
she like, corners him, he does 
say, OK, yeah, like, he does 

1194
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,040
break it down a little fairly. 
And it's it's not quite so 

1195
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,000
misogynist. 
And they get to the bottom of it

1196
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,520
kind of. 
And I kind of like that how that

1197
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,840
went, even though it was so 
awkward for as many episodes. 

1198
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,520
Like, dude, come on. 
Like, back down a little. 

1199
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,440
Like, don't laugh at her. 
What the hell are you doing? 

1200
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,760
Do you think? 
Mazaria told Renira. 

1201
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,200
Like, do you think they had that
meeting? 

1202
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:54,800
And like, like, they gabbed it 
up? 

1203
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,960
And then I was like, here, I got
an idea for her to get this guy 

1204
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,960
out of your hair. 
Like fluff them up. 

1205
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:02,320
I like the idea. 
Yeah. 

1206
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,200
I do like the idea because it's 
that's the kind of thing they 

1207
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,400
might talk about in private 
because she needs like a a 

1208
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,560
female ally that understands 
these things, you know? 

1209
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,880
Do you mean as far as sending 
him off to treat with Damon? 

1210
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,720
No, just just that approach. 
Well, that separately, I think 

1211
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:16,320
she was talking about, but she's
talking about just the approach 

1212
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,040
in that council scene just then 
like they were talking. 

1213
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,600
About sending him off just to go
to trade Damon specifically. 

1214
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:21,440
Oh, you were talking? 
My bad. 

1215
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,160
OK. 
I'm sending him to Damon. 

1216
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,680
Yes, the way which? 
Is important I. 

1217
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,640
Think it's a brilliant strategy 
because, yeah, I mean, like, 

1218
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,840
it's risky because, I mean, you 
definitely risk him betraying 

1219
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,120
you or whatever, but ideally, 
really what you're doing is 

1220
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:38,600
you're trying to make him feel 
honored and important and use 

1221
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:44,120
his pushiness in your favor to 
go investigate Damon basically. 

1222
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,760
Like I see him smart unless it 
backfires, in which case it's 

1223
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,840
really dumb. 
I think that Missouri might have

1224
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,560
given her some pointers and 
like, here's some little bits of

1225
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,960
log can throw at them when they 
insult you or whatever. 

1226
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,960
But also, I absolutely think 
that Missouri had her send him 

1227
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,080
because she says have you know 
things that you cannot do 

1228
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,480
yourself, have others do for 
you. 

1229
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,440
And I think we are mostly 
reading that as like. 

1230
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,960
Send Elinda to the city to 
spread propaganda. 

1231
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,280
But it was that happened later. 
It was almost right after when 

1232
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,360
she tells her that, that she 
sends Alfred to go talk to 

1233
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,800
Damon. 
I think that's the very point. 

1234
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,760
That's what she was. 
Doing so, there's a there's a 

1235
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,440
little undertone there. 
The Shaya brought up the 

1236
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:23,800
potential of like a betrayal or 
something. 

1237
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,520
He's like, oh, I would never 
join the Hightowers. 

1238
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,520
Like, OK, so that's not on the 
table probably unless he's lying

1239
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,480
or something. 
But Damon's like, I'm making my 

1240
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:32,920
own claim. 
And he's like, he wouldn't dare.

1241
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,280
And she says you he would, you 
know, Damon to lack for daring. 

1242
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,280
So yeah, that's the person he 
could flip to. 

1243
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,280
He might go to Damon's side or 
something like that. 

1244
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,360
And, you know, who knows? 
That's that's not necessarily 

1245
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,360
something we think is coming, 
but it's it's said here as a 

1246
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,960
possibility, so we want to 
mention it. 

1247
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:52,880
And the fact that she is trying 
to get Damon back on her side is

1248
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:57,320
interesting in and of itself. 
If they weren't at war just like

1249
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,760
you talk about Eamond, she 
wouldn't be trying to repair her

1250
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,240
relationship with him 'cause 
he's just a bad husband and all 

1251
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:03,920
those others. 
She's like I don't like she 

1252
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,680
needs him as a military ally, 
not as like she wants to repair 

1253
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,080
their relationship cause two are
related, but she more needs him 

1254
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,760
as an ally than she needs him as
a husband and she. 

1255
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,960
Needs a dragon. 
Yes, and this is itself one of 

1256
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,480
the many tragedies of war. 
It's it relentlessly and 

1257
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,560
repeatedly pushes you to break 
your own code of ethics, the 

1258
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,720
things you wouldn't do that 
you're doing for survival or to 

1259
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:30,680
win or both that you would just 
wouldn't do otherwise. 

1260
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,960
Like in a time of peace without 
war hanging over you, these 

1261
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,280
these decisions would be framed 
massively differently. 

1262
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,800
I also wanted to add another 
angle to the the the gender 

1263
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,600
thing here and how people are 
raised. 

1264
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,240
It's a open question how Viserys
would have raised his son if he 

1265
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,720
had had one 'cause he's was 
diplomacy first throughout his 

1266
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,400
life. 
He wasn't a sword first kind of 

1267
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,000
guy even though there's plenty 
of flaws in how his he had one. 

1268
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,160
While he was healthy. 
Yeah, yeah, to be. 

1269
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,560
Clear because he obviously had 
many sons. 

1270
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:03,360
Right. 
Like, sorry, you're right. 

1271
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,800
Like if Baylon had grown up the 
young, the one that he wanted at

1272
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,480
the time, before he was infirm. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1273
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,880
A good correction. 
Because he right here is like, 

1274
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,840
oh, he gave me a cup instead of 
a sword, you know? 

1275
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,920
And it's like, well, he himself 
mostly wielded a cup instead of 

1276
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:16,640
a sword. 
This. 

1277
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:18,320
It's partly a gender thing. 
Yes. 

1278
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,240
Society always does that. 
But that's maybe the way he 

1279
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,000
would have pushed his son too, 
his first born, the one that he 

1280
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,960
expected to inherit before he 
got lazy about all that. 

1281
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,680
Or maybe he just would have been
lazy in the 1st place. 

1282
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,520
But I think that's an 
interesting little thing to 

1283
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,120
consider is just Viserys himself
wasn't really a sword first kind

1284
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,200
of guy. 
And that's an important thing to

1285
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:42,320
point to when you have not many 
examples of the the peaceful 

1286
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,400
men. 
I think Lionel Strong was 

1287
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,640
another one, for example, But 
they're the most of those people

1288
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,840
have been pushed aside now. 
It it is worth noting that while

1289
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,640
she had the cup, you know, and 
maybe Thesaurus would have 

1290
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,640
better trained a son at all, a 
diplomat, warrior, whatever, you

1291
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,120
know, to whatever extent. 
He would have wanted his son to 

1292
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,320
be a cup bearer in the council 
room so that he could learn the 

1293
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,400
goings on in politics. 
When Weniro tried to speak up, 

1294
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,680
he shut her down twice. 
Have you done that to his son? 

1295
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,160
I don't know. 
She did speak up saying send a 

1296
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,880
dragon, so maybe he would have 
shut the sun down if you'd know.

1297
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,520
I don't want to send a dragon to
be diplomatic. 

1298
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,160
That's true. 
It's hard to say, but. 

1299
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,200
So just to reference A Song of 
Ice and Fire, but that's one 

1300
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,840
last point on the whole male 
female dichotomy and war. 

1301
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,240
It's handled so well in The Song
of Ice and Fire, in the twins of

1302
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:31,680
Jamie and Cersei. 
Nothing expresses that better. 

1303
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,960
They're the same family, born at
the same time, and you see all 

1304
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,200
the precise ways they're treated
differently only because of 

1305
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,480
that, Right? 
Cersei frequently thinks about 

1306
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,560
how unfair it is. 
She's like, if I had a sword. 

1307
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,480
Actually, she often thinks if I 
had a cock, but whatever. 

1308
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,040
Safe, safe difference. 
In her mind, she's kind of drank

1309
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,680
some of the kool-aid herself and
also comes up with Catelyn and 

1310
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,960
Edmuer to a lesser extent. 
Like, she was raised to be heir 

1311
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,080
until Edmuer was born. 
Ed Muir was trained for war as 

1312
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,000
soon as he was born, but Catlin 
never was really. 

1313
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:00,160
And that comes up in a few other
places throughout the book. 

1314
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:02,920
But that's probably a great 
topic for a greater discussion. 

1315
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,800
But for now, I'll just tease it 
'cause I think it's a great 

1316
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,280
parallel. 
So Mazzari, one last thing about

1317
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,080
Damon or about Alfred going to 
see Damon? 

1318
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,800
I guess this is going to happen 
next episode. 

1319
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,160
But what wouldn't it be 
interesting if he gets there and

1320
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,280
Damon's like somewhere else? 
He's out in the field. 

1321
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,040
He's like over at stone. 
He's like, no, this place is 

1322
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,480
huge. 
Oh, the work is going well. 

1323
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,360
What's your name? 
Alice Rivers. 

1324
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,600
OK, what's your, you know, no, 
they're not going to do that. 

1325
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,560
But it would be it would be neat
if they had more time for things

1326
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,320
like that. 
I one thing I wonder if Alfred 

1327
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,720
on the way there might get in 
trouble with the Riverlanders. 

1328
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:44,040
They made a point of them doing 
it under a Targaryen flag right?

1329
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,200
And so if if Alfred is riding 
through the Riverlands with 

1330
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,240
Targaryen flag, he might face 
some kind of retribution. 

1331
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,520
Based on what? 
Well, we saw him riding and he 

1332
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,960
wasn't carrying a flag. 
They were, they were banner list

1333
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:58,360
when they were riding. 
So I doubt they're doing that 

1334
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,000
'cause you're right, that would 
be, that's not a good idea. 

1335
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,640
That would detract the attention
of the Greens too. 

1336
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,000
So yeah, that's not a not a good
idea. 

1337
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,360
They said they would try. 
He sent some, some men with him.

1338
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,960
But yeah, it really is again to 
to consider the whole betrayal 

1339
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,080
possibility, meaning that Alfred
could flip to Damon. 

1340
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,040
Damon says basically the same 
things that that some of the 

1341
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:15,720
others are saying. 
He's like she says to Alice. 

1342
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:19,560
He's like, look, they won't 
accept her as a leader, the men 

1343
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,360
of her council, He's saying. 
He's kind of predicting how 

1344
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,600
Alfred and and Bartimus and the 
other members were going to 

1345
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,600
going to respond. 
It's not quite as bad as he 

1346
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,000
thinks, though. 
They're they're accepting her 

1347
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:31,560
more than he thought they would,
but. 

1348
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:34,040
It's also a little bit of a self
fulfilling prophecy. 

1349
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,560
If everyone says we can't accept
her because no one's going to 

1350
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,160
accept her, well, what if you 
always just accept her? 

1351
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,400
Especially Damon, if Damon takes
the lead in that. 

1352
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,840
Like he would set such a great 
example, but he he didn't. 

1353
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,800
Since they won't accept her, I 
might as well not either. 

1354
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,080
Why not? 
Since they won't accept her, I 

1355
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,880
need to make sure they do. 
Why isn't that his take and and 

1356
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:54,120
amaz? 
It's not rhetorical. 

1357
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:55,840
The answer is 'cause he wants 
the power. 

1358
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,640
He. 
Doesn't want them to accept her.

1359
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,520
Yeah, he wants at least as much 
power as her, if not more. 

1360
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:02,360
He's definitely like that's at 
best. 

1361
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,600
But we'll come back to that. 
Let's talk about Mazzaria. 

1362
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,200
She expresses the same 
frustration. 

1363
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:08,520
Like, yeah. 
She's like, yeah, Alfred 

1364
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,800
actually has kind of a point. 
I didn't want to fully admit it,

1365
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,200
but we we worked it out a little
bit, you know? 

1366
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,800
And she, she says the path I 
trod has never been walked. 

1367
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,160
She is. 
And that's true. 

1368
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:20,600
There's a few ways to take that.
But if you just think of it as 

1369
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,280
the simple answer, there's never
been a ruling queen before. 

1370
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,640
Which, by the way, relates to 
Damon's arguments about king or 

1371
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,720
king consort or Prince or 
whatever. 

1372
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:31,640
There's no precedent for that 
either. 

1373
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,240
In this Kingdom. 
They've never had a king 

1374
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,360
consort. 
I actually kind of think Damon 

1375
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:39,920
is technically correct that, but
Simon is also right in a way, 

1376
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,920
because people usually do just 
say queen when they mean dowage 

1377
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:44,400
or queen. 
They usually do just say queen 

1378
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,920
when they say queen region. 
But very often the full title is

1379
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,440
spelled out. 
Damon's like, oh, it's 

1380
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,640
unnecessary. 
So well, yeah, it depends. 

1381
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,960
It's something. 
Yeah, well, they don't say. 

1382
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,040
They don't say queen consort 
though is is also the point. 

1383
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:57,840
Like, yeah, they'll say queen 
region or queen Dowager, but 

1384
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,000
they don't say queen consort. 
And they are setting the 

1385
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,760
standard for, they're setting 
the standard currently for 

1386
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,080
what's going to be, you know, 
normal. 

1387
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,800
So I think he's right to push up
against it, except then he just 

1388
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,480
takes it too far to be like, no,
no, no, we're going to rule 

1389
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:11,840
together. 
It's like, no, it's like, 

1390
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,920
whereas at first it makes you 
think that he's just saying like

1391
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,120
the word is it doesn't isn't 
necessary. 

1392
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,440
You're like, no, he thinks that 
he should have all the full 

1393
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,600
rights. 
Yeah, Simon's reading into. 

1394
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,920
He's a little worried what 
Damon's actually saying there. 

1395
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,280
Which he may, he probably is, 
but doesn't mean he's not 

1396
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,320
technically correct. 
Can I also say you were talking 

1397
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:34,360
about how Rainier has no model 
to work off of as a ruling 

1398
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,760
queen? 
Which is why I think this scene 

1399
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,720
happening here in the decision 
to have Miraxi's skull at 

1400
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:42,480
Dragonstone is so brilliant 
because it gives her all these 

1401
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,640
scenes where she can ruminate 
and stare at the skull of the 

1402
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,120
dragon of like the previous like
the, the closest that you know 

1403
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:54,880
she's had to ruling Queens are 
Rainey's Visenia, Allison, 

1404
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:55,960
right? 
Like, and they had a lot of 

1405
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:00,040
power as Queens, more than you 
would say Emma or Allison. 

1406
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,680
Maybe Allison had a good amount 
of power 'cause she was Regent, 

1407
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,200
but regardless. 
Yeah, that's yeah, you're 

1408
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,400
totally right. 
And you know, we've seen her be 

1409
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,520
interested in Visenia since 
season one, episode one. 

1410
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,800
So yeah, that's it's been it 
makes sense that she carried 

1411
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:16,359
that forward even more when she 
was in a position of more full 

1412
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:18,240
leadership. 
You know, there was some 

1413
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,880
question when Damon and Simon 
Strong were first interacting 

1414
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,520
about what what quite the 
etiquette was. 

1415
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,800
Is Damon pushing too far or is 
it a power grab? 

1416
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,439
Or is it But, and in this 
episode, again, it's clear 

1417
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:36,800
beyond just like what you call 
him, like he's told Alice 

1418
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,399
Rivers, he didn't say he wanted 
to rule with Renera. 

1419
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,160
He said, I'm going to take the 
throne. 

1420
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:46,520
She can join me if she wants. 
You know, clearly at least at 

1421
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:48,840
least right now. 
Like some of this might be him 

1422
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:55,880
building himself up, but he 
clearly has it in him. 

1423
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,399
You know how however much if you
might sing a different tune if 

1424
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,560
Renira was in front of him, and 
we'll see, but he clearly has in

1425
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,120
him to be just grabbing some 
power. 

1426
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:05,840
Right. 
The the biggest Damon apologist 

1427
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,399
would say something like, oh, 
he's just pretending that it's 

1428
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:11,600
all for him because that's how 
he he thinks everybody will 

1429
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,520
follow him if it's for him, and 
then he'll just turn it all over

1430
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:14,960
to her. 
Yeah. 

1431
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,439
I mean that's that's not very 
likely. 

1432
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,920
This woman in a castle who has 
no real role like. 

1433
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:22,560
You know what I'm saying? 
Like why is he? 

1434
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,720
Pretending to her. 
Yeah, so Mazzaria sticking with 

1435
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,399
her, she's a pretty Gray 
character. 

1436
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:29,880
Her pro commoner attitudes were 
praiseworthy, especially 'cause 

1437
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:31,160
there's not a lot of people 
doing that. 

1438
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:33,720
But she's done some kind of 
heinous things too. 

1439
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,720
Here she asks for free hand to 
unleash her talents on King's 

1440
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,040
Landing to stir up the populace,
to do propaganda to take 

1441
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,399
advantage of Kristen's mistake 
regarding Meili's. 

1442
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,600
This probably isn't near as dark
as Damon giving William 

1443
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,359
Blackwood license to quote do 
his worst, which we'll talk 

1444
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,160
about later, but it's certainly 
a parallel to that. 

1445
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,520
It's on a similar vibe, 
especially cause the people of 

1446
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,480
King's Landing are already in a 
very sorry state. 

1447
01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:57,680
They're already in a desperate 
state. 

1448
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,280
Like any sort of using them for 
political means. 

1449
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,400
It's probably going to get some 
people killed. 

1450
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,200
Some innocents are probably 
going to get caught up in it. 

1451
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,520
At least they aren't the targets
like the hapless Bracken 

1452
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,280
commoner. 
So yeah, that's why it's it's 

1453
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,920
pretty pretty sure that's worse.
But still, she wants permission 

1454
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,840
to do The Dirty things that 
Rainier herself might not want 

1455
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,360
to sign off on directly. 
Like, like Damon says, there's 

1456
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:22,720
certain things the crown must 
not be seen to do. 

1457
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,400
This is very similar to that. 
Yeah, lots of parallels here. 

1458
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:31,960
This is one of them. 
We moved past Aegon Lane in that

1459
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:35,280
bed, but I feel like that was a 
clear harken to Viserys laying 

1460
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,800
the bed, his face all emaciated 
and bandages on. 

1461
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,400
I think they're throughout the 
season, I think they're doing a 

1462
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:45,160
lot to use one image to remind 
us or one scene or line to 

1463
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,720
remind us of another. 
There's definitely there's this 

1464
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,520
parallel between what Masari is 
asking for and what Damon's 

1465
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:51,320
doing. 
Yep. 

1466
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,200
Well, so it. 
Doesn't bode well for the 

1467
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:54,080
people. 
No it. 

1468
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:54,840
Does not. 
Yeah. 

1469
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:56,920
So Rainier agrees. 
He's like, yeah, It's also a 

1470
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,800
little similar to Kristen Cole 
saying we don't, do you really 

1471
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,520
want to preside over this part 
of the war? 

1472
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,320
You know, maybe, maybe you don't
want to know about some of this 

1473
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,320
stuff. 
You know, she's like, no, I do 

1474
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:09,280
want to know about it, but it's 
the same sort of it's a similar 

1475
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:11,120
vibe. 
Like it's better if you don't 

1476
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:12,760
know about these things. 
You know, we're going to do 

1477
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,920
these for you. 
But yeah, let's let's keep your 

1478
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,880
hands clean as much as possible.
So she says, yeah, go ahead. 

1479
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:20,880
And though it's introduced in 
kind of an interesting way, you 

1480
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:22,720
see that Rainier is going to 
bed. 

1481
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:27,040
She's, you know, wipe washing 
her hands of it in a in a way. 

1482
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,600
And the maid is brushing her 
hair and she's like, this is a 

1483
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:32,400
different maid, though. 
It's almost like the maid isn't 

1484
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,440
quite as good at it. 
Well, we also see a Linda go off

1485
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:40,040
and can I point out, we see a 
little Linda's House Massey 

1486
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,200
sigil on her dress. 
Nice. 

1487
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,760
Yeah, she's got her sigil. 
Yeah, she's the Yeah, she's the 

1488
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:46,520
daughter of one of the council 
members. 

1489
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,720
The Lyseni orgy council member, 
her Gorman Massey, The Uncouth 

1490
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:52,280
1. 
Yeah, the uncouth one. 

1491
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:56,360
Yeah, that's why Linda wasn't 
brushing her hair 'cause she's 

1492
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,600
infiltrating King's Landing and 
this is the, they repeat, the 

1493
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:04,520
old pretend to be a prisoner 
trick that Damon did with blood 

1494
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,280
to get inside the castle and 
well, inside the castle in that 

1495
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,840
case. 
Here it's just to get inside the

1496
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,160
city. 
Similar or not, pretend to be a 

1497
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,360
prisoner. 
Yeah, he grabbed her like she 

1498
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:15,880
was a prisoner to to bring her 
through. 

1499
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:17,360
OK, I. 
Guess he kind of grabbed her I 

1500
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:18,360
guess. 
Yeah, like there wasn't any need

1501
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:19,960
to grab her if he's just going 
to lead her through the gate. 

1502
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,360
I think he was trying to make 
her look like a prisoner anyway.

1503
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:24,160
I could be wrong about that, but
it felt similar. 

1504
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:27,600
Not important. 
And so clearly there's some gold

1505
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,800
cloaks that still like care 
about Mazzaria because he just 

1506
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,000
mentions like I think he may 
have she must have recognized 

1507
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,240
this guy or something. 
I don't know if she. 

1508
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,320
That was my actually biggest 
question here was how like she 

1509
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,240
was looking for some sort of 
tell that would make it clear 

1510
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,960
which gold cloak was on 
Mazzaria's take. 

1511
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,560
And so I was like, well, did she
describe him? 

1512
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,760
He seemed kind of generic. 
It was dark and rainy. 

1513
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,000
I didn't seem to see any kind of
obvious like he's got a pin on 

1514
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,000
like Laurie's had his Firefly 
guy had like a Firefly pin, you 

1515
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,120
know, his agents had like, which
seems silly to me to be clear, 

1516
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,240
to have a, a mark marking you as
like an agent. 

1517
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:05,920
But either way, I don't know how
she knew him all. 

1518
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:07,600
She has to do is know the 
schedule the guards are on. 

1519
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,920
I don't think it's that 
complicated. 

1520
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:10,800
Yeah, you look for, look for go 
to the. 

1521
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,360
At this time, we know this 
guard. 

1522
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,040
This guy with this? 
Beard, yeah. 

1523
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:14,960
Beard. 
Yeah. 

1524
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,760
I agree it's a little not 
explained, but it's easy to 

1525
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,360
explain. 
You know if that makes. 

1526
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,800
Sense I almost wished it would 
show sometimes, but he might 

1527
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,080
have had a certain rank. 
He might have been like a 

1528
01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:27,920
Lieutenant or Sergeant or 
something. 

1529
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,440
So whatever Sergeant is at the 
Eastgate at 9:00 PM or whatever.

1530
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:35,280
Either way, she goes inside the 
Cat, she gets inside the city, 

1531
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:36,760
and we see her walking around a 
bit. 

1532
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,160
She maneuvers around a few 
alleys here and there, walking 

1533
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:41,240
through the rain, and she goes 
to see Deanna. 

1534
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,240
In case you didn't recognize 
her, that's the same girl that 

1535
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,160
was raped by Aegon in season one
and we saw her working at the 

1536
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,400
bar where Olf's scene took 
place. 

1537
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:52,680
She got spanked by one of Olf's 
friends. 

1538
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,000
I don't know if that's really 
his friend. 

1539
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,640
Compadre guy, I don't know. 
Anyway, obviously Dion is no 

1540
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,800
friend to the Greens. 
So it's kind of you can just see

1541
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:04,440
without knowing what's going to 
happen, you're like, OK, well, I

1542
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:07,280
can see why she's on their side,
you know, or, or would be on 

1543
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:08,720
their side and they clearly know
each other. 

1544
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,600
Linda is recognized right away. 
So there you go. 

1545
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,840
That seems very interesting, but
we don't exactly know where it's

1546
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,960
going just yet. 
I didn't take the I did not take

1547
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,960
the. 
Deanna clearly knew Alinda. 

1548
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,000
I guess she would know from 
working in the red key, but I 

1549
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,000
didn't take it that she knew her
like through Mazzaria 

1550
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,400
necessarily. 
She just knew. 

1551
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,920
Someone's at my door. 
I'm going to let the I'm. 

1552
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,200
Pretty sure she said her name 
when she opened the door. 

1553
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,160
She's like Alinda. 
I'll have to check, I don't 

1554
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:35,400
remember. 
That pretty sure that happened 

1555
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,320
because she didn't say Deanna. 
I think it was the other way 

1556
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:38,640
around. 
It was the thing, Alinda. 

1557
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,160
I didn't think either of them 
said anything, so I'll have to 

1558
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:42,600
go back and check. 
That's very interesting. 

1559
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,800
I mean, it makes, if Diana 
works, you know, around there, 

1560
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,360
she could know Linda, but it's. 
Just they both work in the 

1561
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:49,640
castle together. 
You're right. 

1562
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,720
I mean, it's pretty easy to 
imagine a connection between 

1563
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:52,960
them. 
They both, yeah, they both work 

1564
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:54,840
at the Red Keep. 
They're both about to find out 

1565
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:56,520
one way or the other. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1566
01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:58,000
And so are we. 
And so will we get any 

1567
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,200
clarification that maybe or may 
or may not be necessary? 

1568
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,200
That would be cool to see a 
scene with just these two. 

1569
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,720
I kind of expect us to just like
see her out doing her tasks, but

1570
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:07,720
I would like them to talk. 
That would be cool. 

1571
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,360
Yeah, yeah. 
And and this episode maybe gave 

1572
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:15,560
us more hope for some of that. 
I think we all maybe thought the

1573
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:19,080
loss of two episodes thanks to 
HBO making this an 8 season or 

1574
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:22,080
eight episode season instead of 
10 would would unfortunately 

1575
01:15:22,080 --> 01:15:23,880
those would be some of the 
casualties would be some of the 

1576
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:28,000
scenes with the least or lesser 
main characters, ones who aren't

1577
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,880
the central characters. 
So yeah, that that might be 

1578
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:35,200
yeah, this scene, this episode 
actually gave us a lot of that. 

1579
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,680
You know, we got Jason Baylor 
and and these care like we got 

1580
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:40,360
this scene right here that we 
hopefully get more of. 

1581
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:45,040
And we got Hugh. 
Yeah, yeah, Through that true 

1582
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,960
hue, let's talk about Driftmark.
I just want to say I'll I'll 

1583
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,240
save it till close to the end, 
but I have a, a bold take. 

1584
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:53,880
I have a hot take. 
A bold prediction. 

1585
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:55,720
OK, cool. 
Well, I think that's the, the 

1586
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,320
right, the we'll have a perfect 
chance for that at the end. 

1587
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,200
I, I believe I know sort of 
where you're going with it. 

1588
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:02,400
So we'll see. 
Driftmark. 

1589
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,880
Cornelius shows his grief 
standing in front of the 

1590
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,000
Driftwood throne. 
His castle is a tomb. 

1591
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:10,680
He says he's he's amongst all 
his treasures, but none of it 

1592
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:14,680
matters without her. 
Baylor kind of points this out, 

1593
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,560
suggests that, yeah, you did all
this stuff. 

1594
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:17,640
You went here. 
You went there. 

1595
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,680
You were this great adventurer. 
Very few people knew it was all 

1596
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,000
for her, which like gets a 
reaction out of him. 

1597
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,800
He starts to sob a little bit, a
little more. 

1598
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,560
And it's this great shot of high
tide in the distance at night. 

1599
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,480
You can see it kind of off, off 
behind them like those tide the 

1600
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:34,280
tide is in probably so you can't
walk to it. 

1601
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:36,760
It's that great thing there. 
We've only seen it during the 

1602
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,880
day before. 
She offers him the the job and 

1603
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:47,160
he at first takes it as a a 
burden rather than an honor, 

1604
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,640
which is how Baylor reframes it.
And it's really, really amazing.

1605
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,520
And like I said at the 
beginning, she just expertly 

1606
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:56,040
dissects his argument, knows 
exactly what buttons to push to 

1607
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:01,600
get him to flip his position. 
She's like, no, this isn't a a 

1608
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,560
burden, It's a chance to carry 
on the goal your wife died for. 

1609
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,160
What better way to honor her 
than by carrying the torch that 

1610
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:13,880
she dropped, that she was 
wielding for her queen, that she

1611
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:18,000
died for that 'cause that's the 
best thing you can do for her 

1612
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,800
memory is to complete that job 
that she set out to do. 

1613
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:27,000
And Baylor points outlook, man, 
your grief has been costly to 

1614
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,600
your family in the past. 
Don't do that again. 

1615
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:34,720
It's a it's it's very direct and
very authoritative. 

1616
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,120
And she's proud of it, you know,
or, or he's proud of her for 

1617
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,600
saying it. 
She says Rainey's died in dragon

1618
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,960
fire as a Targaryen should, as 
she herself wants to. 

1619
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,360
And that really moves Coralis. 
And he's like, whoa, this is 

1620
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,200
this is a good person to be my 
heir. 

1621
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,560
But she's like, Nope, blood and 
fire. 

1622
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:53,920
You need salt and sea for your 
heir. 

1623
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:57,680
So he, I think at that moment he
was seeing Rainey's in her, that

1624
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,200
fire that speaking along the 
same terms and saying the the 

1625
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:05,240
things that clearly did reflect 
what his wife was likely feeling

1626
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,160
in those final moments. 
And building up to that, How can

1627
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:13,320
he let his grandchildren and 
other kin fight while he sits 

1628
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:18,160
back and doesn't in an episode 
where so few people have 

1629
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,560
experience in war, in an episode
where much is made over how war 

1630
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,760
is a man's game, how is this man
going to sit back while the 

1631
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:29,040
women and his family go fight 
and die, especially the one, the

1632
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:30,760
woman that he loved most of all 
in this world? 

1633
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,000
So. 
He's a very progressive thinker.

1634
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,160
Yeah, right. 
So I don't know, there's a whole

1635
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:42,800
lot to say about this scene in 
terms of lore or or analysis 

1636
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:46,280
other than it was great. 
And it if it said everything it 

1637
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:49,680
needed to say. 
His apparent turn is very 

1638
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:52,400
believable given how good her 
argument and acting was. 

1639
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:54,520
And I I do think that's what 
he's doing there. 

1640
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:56,560
The visual storytelling. 
He closes his hand around the 

1641
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:57,280
pin. 
That's I think that's 

1642
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,600
acceptance. 
If he sets it aside or like 

1643
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,200
tosses it, I think that's pretty
clearly like, no. 

1644
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:04,000
Is that how you read it too, 
Sean? 

1645
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:05,240
For sure. 
Yeah. 

1646
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:07,880
He didn't put it back in the 
box, throw in AC or anything. 

1647
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:13,080
He embraced it, if you will. 
And And I think this scene does 

1648
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,800
a lot to capture the theme of 
this episode. 

1649
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:19,600
The title was Regent. 
And if a Regent is someone 

1650
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,680
serving in the place of someone 
else, think of how pervasive 

1651
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,920
that is to the whole episode. 
Like Damon is basically trying 

1652
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,840
to be the king himself instead 
of Raniera. 

1653
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:35,800
Raniera sent her on on her on 
her behalf to talk to Corliss 

1654
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:39,280
about being the Regent and in 
her absent you'll be the Hand. 

1655
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,320
We'd see Aegon or Eamon becoming
the Regent. 

1656
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,560
It it's it's a very constant 
theme of someone filling the 

1657
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,480
role of someone else. 
That's this episode is all about

1658
01:19:49,480 --> 01:19:50,440
that. 
A very good point. 

1659
01:19:50,440 --> 01:19:52,560
Yeah, Very good, Yeah. 
So it's a really powerful scene.

1660
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:55,960
I think a lot of people were 
moved by it and certainly one of

1661
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,480
the ones that's been outlined a 
lot. 

1662
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:01,160
But we also did give it a little
bit of talk at the beginning. 

1663
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:07,040
Shout out Bethany Antonia for 
sure moving on to her sister, 

1664
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:08,760
the veil. 
We got a brief scene here. 

1665
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,360
It's our first time seeing Lady 
Jane. 

1666
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,320
It's good to have a moment 
there. 

1667
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:16,080
A bit of a debate, more lawyer 
and kind of like how the I refer

1668
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,880
to bail is. 
Speech to Corley says like an 

1669
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,120
expert closing argument. 
This is more of a debate over 

1670
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:24,560
the fine print. 
Like you said you wanted a 

1671
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:27,520
dragon, you got one. 
I said I wanted a dragon for a 

1672
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,080
defense. 
This dragon cannot do that, you 

1673
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:33,440
know, And it doesn't really get 
resolved, the argument. 

1674
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:37,560
But for now, 15,000 troops 
probably not marching yet. 

1675
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,080
Rainier asked for this help, but
it doesn't look like it's coming

1676
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:42,680
yet. 
And she brings up Vegar. 

1677
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:44,760
She's like, look, Vegar brought 
us to heel during the Congress. 

1678
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:46,560
This is the one thing where 
you're afraid of up here. 

1679
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,840
We're afraid of Veigar again. 
And I was like, well, I'm not 

1680
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,960
sure we can really help you with
that, but we can. 

1681
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,600
Even if we sent a bigger dragon,
it won't be bigger than Veigar. 

1682
01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:58,720
But any thoughts on this scene, 
Sean? 

1683
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:00,200
It seems like it's setting up 
more. 

1684
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:02,600
It obviously didn't do a whole 
lot, but I'm glad we got it. 

1685
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:04,160
And I'm and I'm curious what's 
next. 

1686
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,880
Yeah, I wonder how long she'll 
linger there waiting for the 

1687
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,400
troops to be committed 'cause 
she's supposed to move on to 

1688
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,600
Pintos. 
Is she supposed to just 

1689
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,400
automatically move on to Pintos 
no matter what or wait till this

1690
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,440
gets resolved? 
Does she go back home if it 

1691
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:21,400
doesn't get resolved as a a lot 
hanging here so. 

1692
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:24,800
Agreed yeah, so it's it's kind 
of up in the air for now like 

1693
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:28,800
the Erie itself AO now I. 
I will say there was one other 

1694
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:33,000
interesting bit here that they 
seem to be sort of at odds and 

1695
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:34,680
and Lady Jane is in a tough 
spot. 

1696
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:37,000
Like you expect me to commit 
these troops, but you understand

1697
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,840
like it could be the end of my 
people if I do, you know, like a

1698
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:42,800
dragon. 
My if I do that, a dragon really

1699
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:44,240
might come and burn this castle 
down. 

1700
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,760
So I it is a legit concern that 
she has. 

1701
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,440
But despite this sort of 
contention between them, there 

1702
01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:50,760
was still that moment of 
bonding. 

1703
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,240
You know, like, I don't like 
feeling powerless. 

1704
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:54,040
Me neither. 
You know, I think they have that

1705
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:55,760
in common. 
And hopefully they can grow 

1706
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,640
somewhere from that. 
Yeah, I really appreciated Jane 

1707
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:02,400
for not just, like, shooting the
messenger, you know, like she 

1708
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:04,840
realizes this. 
This is an emissary. 

1709
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:08,120
She didn't make this decision. 
Which brings me to something I 

1710
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,880
expected her to bring up, but 
makes sense to me now why maybe 

1711
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,480
she wouldn't if Jane isn't the 
type to just blame this young 

1712
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:16,080
girl for something that's not 
her fault. 

1713
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,720
Well, we as we mentioned before,
Damon is not beloved in the 

1714
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,280
veil. 
He killed his wife Raya Royce 

1715
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,680
and was out like like outright 
accused of it. 

1716
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,320
You know what I mean? 
So like, it's not a, it's no 

1717
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:31,640
secret. 
Like it's a, it's a clear rumor 

1718
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:35,720
that he's done it. 
But Jane doesn't seem to bring 

1719
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:37,720
anything about that up to, to 
Reyna. 

1720
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:42,000
If Damon comes up more and like 
is raising people, then Jane and

1721
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,120
Reyna had a conversation. 
Maybe it will come up then 

1722
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:45,120
though. 
It could. 

1723
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,480
And another factor here that 
Sean you might not be aware of, 

1724
01:22:47,480 --> 01:22:49,480
and I want to clarify for 
anybody else that doesn't know, 

1725
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:53,760
is Jane is Rainier's cousin, but
not the cousin of the Hightower 

1726
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,720
side of the family because it's 
it's Viserys wife that is the 

1727
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,200
Aaron part Aaron. 
So that's the connection. 

1728
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,640
So of course, Emma is, is 
Rainier's connection to the 

1729
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:06,680
veil. 
Obviously Allison's children 

1730
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:07,920
don't have that because they're 
high. 

1731
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:09,200
They have Hightower on that 
side. 

1732
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:13,360
And yeah, so that's part of it. 
That's maybe something else 

1733
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:15,160
that's helping keep Jane on 
their side a little bit. 

1734
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:20,000
Also the whole women can rule 
part which is relevant to a Lady

1735
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,520
of the veil. 
Yeah, she's the ruling lady of 

1736
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,080
the veil. 
She is like, there's no like 

1737
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:25,800
young child that she's Regent 
for. 

1738
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,280
She is the lady. 
Yeah, it's it's an important 

1739
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,960
clarification cause not only is 
that the situation at the 

1740
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:34,480
conquest that she refers to 
where there was a ruling Aaron, 

1741
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:38,760
there was a Aaron Regent woman 
ruling for her son who was six 

1742
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:40,640
or seven. 
But that's also the scenario in 

1743
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,760
the song of Ice and Fire where 
we have Lysa Aaron ruling for 

1744
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,640
sweet Robin. 
Now the twins, a familiar place.

1745
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:50,680
It says this is the the 
Riverlands is really expanding. 

1746
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,400
We get quite a few more river 
Lords, more Alice rivers. 

1747
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:55,800
So a rivers lady and more 
Harrenhal. 

1748
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,240
And the Twins is one of the most
familiar places that we've that 

1749
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:01,600
meaning that we've already seen,
that we're seeing for the first 

1750
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:03,960
time in the show. 
Doesn't have the most fond 

1751
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:07,520
memories, though, does it? 
Still, it's an interesting 

1752
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:11,560
place, Jace. 
He's much better at this than 

1753
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,800
Damon's so far, isn't he? 
At first, he thinks to head to 

1754
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,040
Harrenhal, to basically do what 
serve Alfred is sent to do, but 

1755
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,920
changes his mind when he 
realizes the value of the phrase

1756
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,760
and the crossing, and what 
that'll mean for the northern 

1757
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,200
March. 
A look at the map shows exactly 

1758
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:28,080
what he means. 
If the Graybeards want to get to

1759
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:31,080
River Run, which is where he 
wants them to go to Block the 

1760
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:34,200
Lannister forces that are going 
to eventually come through, well

1761
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,120
they have to go through the 
Twins crossing and go South just

1762
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,720
like half of Rob's army did. 
The one that was sent to relieve

1763
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:41,680
River Run during the War of 5 
Kings. 

1764
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:46,040
If they had to go the long way, 
it's really long. 

1765
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,520
They have to go all the way 
around the whole Trident. 

1766
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:51,680
It's like 5 times longer, four 
times longer. 

1767
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:56,880
So at the time, Robb Stark paid 
a hefty toll. 

1768
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,800
And this is similar. 
There's no marriage to ask for 

1769
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,360
this time. 
There's no hand to give. 

1770
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,240
Jace has already spoken for. 
Maybe they could ask for a 

1771
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:06,880
little Viserys or a little 
Aegon. 

1772
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:09,480
But you know, little babies 
getting married. 

1773
01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:10,560
I don't. 
They didn't go there. 

1774
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,080
Maybe they don't have children 
of that age. 

1775
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:13,320
These, these two don't look that
young. 

1776
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:14,600
They probably don't have young 
children. 

1777
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,760
Lord Forrest Frey says it is 
death to bear steel against 

1778
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,480
one's Liege. 
Against one's Liege. 

1779
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,400
A line also delivered by Robb 
Stark to the great Sean, who was

1780
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:31,840
last seen captive at the Twins. 
So like Lady Jane, Lady Frey, 

1781
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,000
who we'll discuss in a second, 
'cause we don't we're, there's 

1782
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,080
some dispute over who she is, 
like what her name is, but hang 

1783
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:40,080
on, we'll come back to that. 
Also says they fear Veigar 

1784
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,600
Fairpoint. 
But Jase, like I said, good, 

1785
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:45,320
pretty good at negotiating, has 
a good comeback. 

1786
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,320
He says, look, my Dragon's right
over there and yes, I'll protect

1787
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,880
you. 
And so my uncle and they're 

1788
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:56,680
like, OK, well, that's good. 
But what about our price? 

1789
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:58,840
You know? 
And he's like, OK, you can have 

1790
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,400
Aaron Hall, but it's going to 
take more than a crossing if you

1791
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:02,720
want that. 
And you got to be, you got to 

1792
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:05,680
send your troops to. 
Jay's probably overpaid a little

1793
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,520
bit, but it's it's good. 
They really needed that. 

1794
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:10,560
It's very valuable to them. 
And it's worth more to them than

1795
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:14,080
it is to the Greens, probably. 
So, yeah, a really good scene. 

1796
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:15,560
I like Jay. 
I like seeing Jay's in action. 

1797
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,200
He's a good negotiator. 
Again, he's got in the veil sort

1798
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,920
of the north and now the twins 
in the time that Damon has made 

1799
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,440
things worse for his own cause, 
you know, right. 

1800
01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:28,080
So got to like that Jace on the 
up here. 

1801
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:29,320
What do you think about the 
scene, Sean? 

1802
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:31,160
Yeah, I thought it was an 
interesting scene. 

1803
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:33,400
It was. 
I don't have much to say beyond 

1804
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,920
what you said, but I do 
appreciate the, the view that, 

1805
01:26:36,920 --> 01:26:41,480
you know, the above imagery of 
the the bridge across and I'm 

1806
01:26:41,480 --> 01:26:45,360
sitting there at the table. 
I got a vibe from that woman's 

1807
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:47,120
name, Sabatha. 
Is that right? 

1808
01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:48,400
Well, we're not sure that's the 
thing. 

1809
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:51,600
Hold off on that. 
OK, I know the subtitle is 

1810
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,680
called him Forest Bray. 
That's correct. 

1811
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,360
Yes, that one's correct. 
But anyway, she reminded me of 

1812
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,320
Elena Tyrell a little bit. 
She seemed to be very bold and 

1813
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,400
opinionated, you know? 
And she did most of the talking.

1814
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,600
He, he, he. 
They exchanged several looks, 

1815
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:05,440
but mostly it was her looking at
him. 

1816
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:07,440
And she did, she did talk. 
He said a few things, but yeah, 

1817
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,600
she seemed more in control 
there, which or more command, 

1818
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:11,280
and maybe she's the better 
negotiator. 

1819
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:12,480
But yeah, there was. 
I agree with you. 

1820
01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:13,840
There's a little bit of that 
vibe there. 

1821
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,920
So yeah, let's talk about the 
name thing. 

1822
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,360
This is a little weird. 
O'Shea, why don't you explain 

1823
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:19,560
it? 
Yeah. 

1824
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,480
So basically often when 
characters are credited, it 

1825
01:27:22,480 --> 01:27:25,840
comes from a variety of sources.
Sometimes it's from an actor CV,

1826
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:29,800
sometimes it's like a leak, you 
know, like someone reports on 

1827
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:33,040
something. 
Sometimes it's from the credits 

1828
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,960
and, and sometimes it's from the
subtitles, the captions, 

1829
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,040
sometimes it's wrong. 
All of these things. 

1830
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:42,200
Well, yes, forest is credited as
forest in the caption. 

1831
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:44,320
And so it seems that that is 
Forest. 

1832
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:49,800
If that's correct, Lady Fray 
before the season was credited 

1833
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:53,200
as Lady Serena. 
The Wiki of Westeros has updated

1834
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:55,120
their listing, calling her 
Sabatha. 

1835
01:27:55,120 --> 01:28:00,280
But on the wiki discussion 
notes, someone asks why did we 

1836
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:03,040
change this? 
Why do we assume that Serena is 

1837
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:06,080
a code name and not her name? 
And there's no response 

1838
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,400
currently. 
So I personally can't find the 

1839
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,440
source for why she is Sabbatha 
other than that she is a woman 

1840
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:16,960
who was married to a Lord 
Forrest Frey, but she is a bit 

1841
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,000
older than we would imagine. 
The book version of her of 

1842
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:22,360
Sabbatha, to be clear, is is is 
a good bit younger. 

1843
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:24,680
So This is why we're wondering 
partly why. 

1844
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:27,520
The book version of Sabbatha is 
a bit of a fighter, and this 

1845
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,880
woman isn't a bit of a fighter, 
but she is kind of in control, 

1846
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:32,720
like this woman, this lady Frey 
is. 

1847
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:36,120
So I think there's elements that
you could see, but for me, the 

1848
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:41,880
jury is very much still out on 
whether A, Lady Serena is Lady 

1849
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:47,080
Sabatha and B, whether her 
existence means there's no 

1850
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:52,320
Sabatha, the canonical book 
Sabatha, who plays a few roles. 

1851
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:56,960
And I could see Lady Frey here 
filling some of those roles, but

1852
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,720
not others. 
And we're gonna talk about this 

1853
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,760
on Saturday and Wednesday. 
Yeah, and it's just curious in 

1854
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:05,480
general that they would use a 
code name for. 

1855
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:08,800
Like, why would be like Sabatha?
That's not some major character 

1856
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:10,120
that people are gonna freak out 
over. 

1857
01:29:10,160 --> 01:29:11,440
She just is. 
Lady Serena. 

1858
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:13,160
I don't know. 
Yeah, I have suspicions. 

1859
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,440
Yeah, Anyway, so that's not a 
huge topic, but it's, you know, 

1860
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:20,080
developing situation, this name.
It's part of the history of 

1861
01:29:20,080 --> 01:29:23,120
Westeros. 
Yes, that's right, the 

1862
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:27,200
uncertainty over this name is 
part of the folklore of the 

1863
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:29,480
show. 
Shall we say Bracken and 

1864
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:30,920
Blackwood? 
Let's talk about that. 

1865
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:32,960
Looks like Stonehedge in the 
background. 

1866
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:35,000
We actually make it to see, 
which is interesting. 

1867
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,880
We haven't gotten a shot of that
before. 

1868
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:42,840
Lord Amos defies Damon and it 
impresses him. 

1869
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,800
This actor reminds me of Sean 
Bean, apparently, by the way, 

1870
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,520
that Dabos Blackwood, who died 
at the Battle of Burning Mill, 

1871
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,920
was Willem's brother. 
And Damon played this so badly 

1872
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:57,800
his his ignorance of Riverlands 
politics is really on display. 

1873
01:29:57,800 --> 01:29:59,720
Remember when he asked like, why
do the Brackens and Blackwoods 

1874
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:01,360
hate each other? 
Who can tell which is which? 

1875
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:04,240
Yet he hears that they both hate
each other. 

1876
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,480
Yeah, he's trying to make one 
submit to the other. 

1877
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,160
Like that's never going to have 
the worst thing 'cause like you 

1878
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:12,320
were trying to get an two people
have hate or two houses that 

1879
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:14,120
have hate each other for 
thousands of years, one to bend 

1880
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:17,520
the knee to the other so bad. 
It's just never going to work. 

1881
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:20,120
And this is a throwback to Raven
Jamie at Raven Tree Hall. 

1882
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,440
Remember this in at the end of A
Dance with Dragons, Raven Tree 

1883
01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:25,520
Hall was holding out. 
They refused to submit to the 

1884
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,000
Brackens. 
But once Jamie shows up, it's 

1885
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,760
like, well, we'll submit to you.
I'll submit to the king, not 

1886
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,240
Jonas Bracken. 
They're like, oh, he's like, oh,

1887
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:33,040
I understand. 
It's like good. 

1888
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:34,400
All right then. 
And that. 

1889
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,520
And that settles it. 
So very poorly handled by Damon.

1890
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:42,080
If Damon, if, if everything had 
been the same except willing 

1891
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,080
wasn't there, I think you would 
have got him to side with him. 

1892
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:48,440
Yeah, if he said submit to me, 
he said submit to me instead of 

1893
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:49,560
the black. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1894
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,160
Even bringing the Blackwood was 
dumb. 

1895
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:53,480
His presence ruined the whole 
thing. 

1896
01:30:53,480 --> 01:30:56,040
Yeah, so. 
But again, he's impressed. 

1897
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:59,160
They're like, I go ahead and 
burn me then and he's like, 

1898
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:01,680
Dang, I need guys like that on 
my side. 

1899
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:03,720
It was like, kind of like. 
Because you're going to get 

1900
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:05,360
burned by one dragon or the 
others. 

1901
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,280
Yeah, I like I need dudes that 
are, yeah, strong enough to 

1902
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:10,280
stand up to that. 
Yeah, He I love his line. 

1903
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:12,720
He says I'd rather be the Lord 
of Bones and Cinders. 

1904
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:14,920
It's the Lord of Bones. 
Remember Rattle shirt there? 

1905
01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:16,960
And it's the maybe the shot of 
the episode. 

1906
01:31:17,480 --> 01:31:19,160
Did you think he was going to 
burn him, Sean? 

1907
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,080
Yes, I did. 
I thought that. 

1908
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:22,160
He thought he was going to 
support. 

1909
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:25,960
And I just, I feel weird saying 
this but I I almost feel like he

1910
01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:29,240
should have really. 
Because. 

1911
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:33,120
On some level, they might be 
calling his bluff and if he 

1912
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,080
burns this guy who this leader 
and a few others, the other 

1913
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,720
people might be like all right, 
I guess you really will burn us.

1914
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:42,480
We have to do this either. 
Maybe not. 

1915
01:31:42,480 --> 01:31:46,280
Maybe they still are that 
against it, but but now there's 

1916
01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:48,960
no way they will all right. 
I I don't know what in a world 

1917
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,960
Damon can do now. 
I don't he's yeah. 

1918
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:54,000
Is he? 
He's in such an Oval situation. 

1919
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,760
He's dug himself quite a hole. 
Yeah, Yeah, you're right. 

1920
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:59,240
I I have some ideas on that, on 
what he might do next. 

1921
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,080
Well, well, that's another topic
for Saturday. 

1922
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:03,760
We have too much else. 
To cover today a notch up for 

1923
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:06,640
him and my expectations of him, 
that he didn't burn him. 

1924
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,480
I I. 
Am only for him to turn to 

1925
01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:11,520
something worse right after. 
Exactly right. 

1926
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:14,600
Like that he didn't burn him and
that he realized that it was 

1927
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:16,120
valuable, that they were that 
brave. 

1928
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,520
But then the plan he comes up 
with is gone. 

1929
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:21,720
That's, you know, it wasn't I 
don't want him to burn these 

1930
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:26,560
guys, but I'd rather him burn 
these trained soldiers putting 

1931
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:31,560
themselves in harm's way, trying
to stand by some principle based

1932
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,600
on jealousy then these guys, 
innocent wives and children, 

1933
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,680
right like. 
Easy call, Yeah, a terrible a 

1934
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,680
terrible choice, but an easy 
choice if if if you're given it.

1935
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:44,920
Yeah, so. 
So Damon tells Blackwood to do 

1936
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:47,000
his worst. 
Telling the Blackwood to do the 

1937
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,800
worst of the Brackens is pretty 
horrifying to imagine. 

1938
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:52,800
This is verified later. 
The scale and scope of what they

1939
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:55,400
do. 
This is a smaller scale version 

1940
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:59,080
of Tywin unleashing Gregor 
Vargo, Hod and Amory Larch on 

1941
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:00,160
the Riverlands. 
And. 

1942
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,320
And of course, all four of those
men controlled Heron Hall for a 

1943
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:06,520
brief stint and died. 
It's all again. 

1944
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:08,520
This reminds me of Dusk and 
Dale, but we covered that 

1945
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:11,680
already. 
Damon is gonna be upset with the

1946
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:16,240
Blackwoods, though. 
Like he said, certain things the

1947
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:19,720
crown can't be seen to do and 
they carry Targaryen banners. 

1948
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,240
Like, he kind of betrays Damon. 
It's like, whoa, this guy's like

1949
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:23,760
a scoundrel. 
Like, what's going on here? 

1950
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:25,680
So we this is a developing 
situation too. 

1951
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,960
I mean, he killed Gerald Bracken
over a pretty mild thing. 

1952
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:30,920
He was like 10. 
Yeah, it was a violent. 

1953
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:33,560
He is a scoundrel. 
He's a he's black of heart. 

1954
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:34,800
I would say. 
I don't know. 

1955
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:39,440
I, I, I think this, I think this
series has done a great service 

1956
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:43,400
to the Brackens to, to leveling 
out the playing field in terms 

1957
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:46,200
of, I think there's more Bracken
fans than ever before. 

1958
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,760
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 
We did an episode on the 

1959
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:52,800
brackets in the Blackwoods not 
too long before the season 

1960
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:53,800
started, right? 
Yeah. 

1961
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:58,080
And, and that was a realization 
I came to that probably people 

1962
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:01,480
who, you know, deep in it, read 
the books multiple times, came 

1963
01:34:01,480 --> 01:34:05,440
this realization long ago. 
But it seems pretty consistently

1964
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:09,800
in every appearance of the 
Blackwoods, there's somewhere 

1965
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:13,360
between honorable and or on the 
winning side. 

1966
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:17,920
And almost every instance of the
Black of the Brackens are 

1967
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,240
somewhere between dishonorable 
and the losing side. 

1968
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:26,200
Regardless, they are both at 
fault for this ageless feud, 

1969
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:27,800
right? 
Even if one side is the good 

1970
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:29,720
guys and one's bad guys, it 
takes 2 to tangos. 

1971
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:33,080
So you, the Blackwoods, have to 
be doing something wrong to 

1972
01:34:33,080 --> 01:34:36,360
still be embroiled in this feud.
But all the characters that were

1973
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:39,920
presented seem to be presented 
in a positive light and this is 

1974
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:43,000
a big juxtaposition from that 
from from book Cannon Zone. 

1975
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:45,320
I agree with the Shay, even 
though I favour the Blackwoods. 

1976
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:49,520
Even without the authorial thumb
on the scale, I grew to share 

1977
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:51,480
that I approve of the balancing 
here. 

1978
01:34:51,480 --> 01:34:52,920
Cuz yeah, the Brackens just look
better. 

1979
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:54,960
They look better all around. 
They're both the victims and the

1980
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:58,560
tough ones at the same time. 
They look strong and they 

1981
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:03,400
suffered for being virtuous. 
Although that bracken that 

1982
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:07,000
William killed in season one, he
was kind of a bully. 

1983
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:08,280
Yeah, he was a bully. 
I don't. 

1984
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,360
He didn't deserve the burner. 
But yeah, he didn't deserve to 

1985
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:14,240
be burner. 
He was very rude all around you,

1986
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:15,480
right? 
And his father, like, was 

1987
01:35:15,480 --> 01:35:17,480
cheering him on. 
It didn't seem like his father 

1988
01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:19,320
was really setting a good 
example. 

1989
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:21,000
No he wasn't. 
I agree with that. 

1990
01:35:21,480 --> 01:35:25,680
So Damon obviously isn't any 
better than Will and Blackwood 

1991
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:27,720
here. 
He gives the order to do this, 

1992
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:30,360
and it's like his second oopsie,
war crime. 

1993
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:34,120
He's like, I didn't mean to do. 
Oh, I mean, Jared, I didn't mean

1994
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,040
it would be my mistake. 
I didn't know. 

1995
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:37,600
Yeah. 
And he tries to escape 

1996
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:40,720
responsibility for both and 
neither work. 

1997
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:42,120
He doesn't escape responsibility
at first. 

1998
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:43,000
He doesn't. 
And he. 

1999
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,320
And in trying to escape 
responsibility for the second 

2000
01:35:45,320 --> 01:35:47,640
thing, they throw the first one 
back in his face. 

2001
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:50,720
But we'll come back to that in a
minute because that's one of the

2002
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:53,040
last scenes of the episode. 
And we have a lot of Harrenhal 

2003
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:57,840
to talk about before that point.
Work has progressed, Damon 

2004
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:01,440
orders the levying of farmers 
quote from antlers to high 

2005
01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:02,880
heart. 
Which is a fun call out because 

2006
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,040
high heart is is a nice tie into
the lore, especially with Alice 

2007
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,240
Rivers. 
Well primarily about Alice 

2008
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:10,200
Rivers. 
Last episode I talked about how 

2009
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:12,880
much this castle was turning 
into a Fear and loathing and 

2010
01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:16,240
herring hall situation and the 
bat country aspect of that has 

2011
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:19,440
been further explained. 
Sir Simon Says there's so much 

2012
01:36:19,440 --> 01:36:22,160
shit in the Wailing Tower that 
the halls are impassable. 

2013
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:25,200
Now, if Westeros were 
technologically farther along, 

2014
01:36:25,320 --> 01:36:26,680
they could use this as an 
explosive. 

2015
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:30,960
Bat guano used to be used in the
making of gunpowder before 

2016
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:34,440
technique got a little better. 
It's also used in other 

2017
01:36:34,440 --> 01:36:36,720
explosive items, and it's also 
great as fertilizers. 

2018
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:38,200
I mean, they should just be 
shoveling that out into their 

2019
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:40,520
fields. 
But there's actually a Texas 

2020
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:44,680
town called Blow Out. 
They got its name from a cave 

2021
01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:48,800
that was so filled with bat 
guano that the ammonia build up 

2022
01:36:48,800 --> 01:36:52,400
inside it exploded when The Cave
mouth was struck by lightning. 

2023
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:54,520
So that renamed the town to Blow
Out. 

2024
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:57,520
Yeah, that's right. 
Isn't that amazing? 

2025
01:36:59,120 --> 01:37:00,640
Like, where did you find that? 
Aziz? 

2026
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:02,800
You looking up Bat Guano in your
spare time? 

2027
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,360
You're looking up Cave Blowout. 
What is going on here? 

2028
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:07,480
Just a real big fan of Texas, 
yeah. 

2029
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,920
That would be quote UN quote 
funny if that's part of how the 

2030
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:14,160
arson of Lionel and Harwin was 
facilitated with like, yeah, 

2031
01:37:14,160 --> 01:37:17,200
just pile up the bat guano and 
set it on fire. 

2032
01:37:18,480 --> 01:37:23,320
Now Heron Hall is still has the 
Fear and loathing vibe but it 

2033
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:25,200
also has the Field of Dreams 
vibe. 

2034
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:28,880
If you build it, they will come,
but the river lands, the river 

2035
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,960
Lords aren't coming. 
They did come but they left 

2036
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,880
angrily after yelling at him so 
it didn't quite go. 

2037
01:37:35,160 --> 01:37:36,560
They did come, but then they 
left right away. 

2038
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:40,840
I love how he says, let no man 
say Damon Targaryen didn't dirty

2039
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:42,360
his hands. 
Like, oh, we oh, don't worry, 

2040
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:43,840
bro, we know your hands are 
dirty. 

2041
01:37:44,960 --> 01:37:49,800
Your hands are very dirty. 
But like the Field of Dreams 

2042
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:51,760
ghosts. 
Let's talk about that some more 

2043
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:54,560
again before the river Lords 
arrive, because AL's Rivers sort

2044
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:57,200
of paves the way for their 
appearance by saying some of the

2045
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:01,640
same things, like less harshly, 
but more supernaturally and with

2046
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:03,280
all sorts of mysterious elements
throughout. 

2047
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:06,640
The Greens have a dreamer, 
Helena, but not a Green dreamer.

2048
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:09,880
Now, that is a parallel on the 
Black side, at least in Damon's 

2049
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,680
corner of the story. 
She's a dreamer and kind of 

2050
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:15,560
leads him into his own dreams. 
So we're seeing that. 

2051
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:18,240
And of course, it's interesting,
too, how Simon is often the one 

2052
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:21,280
that brings him back out. 
It's often his voice that Damon 

2053
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:23,480
hears to bring him back out of 
something like Simon's like, 

2054
01:38:23,480 --> 01:38:27,720
hey, hey, there's a Raven here. 
Or did you like, is the duck not

2055
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,480
to your liking? 
Yeah, it's it's often his voice 

2056
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:32,800
that brings him back out, which 
I don't know there's anything to

2057
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:34,880
read into that. 
But, you know, keep an eye on 

2058
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:36,720
that pattern. 
Maybe there's something going on

2059
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:38,800
there. 
I, I got to say, remember last 

2060
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:44,960
episode I I was wondering how 
aware he was of these 

2061
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:49,360
supernatural type things or 
Alice's connection to it or what

2062
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:53,680
his relationship was with her. 
And I, I this episode that had a

2063
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:55,080
lot more of her pay more 
attention. 

2064
01:38:55,400 --> 01:39:00,320
She hasn't interacted with 
anyone other than Damon and this

2065
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,600
might be a little temporally. 
I don't really expect this but 

2066
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:07,160
it makes me wonder if is this is
she's just completely a figment 

2067
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,720
of his imagination? 
Is this all just his inner guilt

2068
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:14,000
haunting him somehow? 
Well, we see Simon look at her 

2069
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:18,600
pretty distinctly, I would say 
to that in a shot I'll put right

2070
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:20,240
here. 
Also jaw Joe Magician. 

2071
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,040
I talked about this as Joe 
Magician, He says there's a 

2072
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:25,560
scene where in episode in the 
first scene in in Harren Hall or

2073
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:27,840
the the second episode with 
Harren Hall where he also 

2074
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:30,160
interacts with her. 
Also, how does his hand get 

2075
01:39:30,160 --> 01:39:31,800
wrapped? 
I mean, you can wrap your own 

2076
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:33,640
hand technically. 
Like, I guess, yeah. 

2077
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:35,840
But he can. 
Still, I mean, if he can wake up

2078
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:38,960
at dinner thinking he was just 
having sex, he can also wrap his

2079
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:39,280
hand. 
OK. 

2080
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:40,280
That's Fairpoint. 
Yeah, and. 

2081
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:43,520
I'm not, I'm not pushing too 
hard for this, but I do. 

2082
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,960
But my other a a slightly more 
specific thought along is maybe 

2083
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:50,040
that not so much that she just 
doesn't even exist, but the way 

2084
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:55,040
he looks at her reminded me a 
little about how Damon looked at

2085
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:57,520
the serving girl who he saw as 
his. 

2086
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:02,680
Wife and it turned into again. 
How does Simon Strong perceive 

2087
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:05,040
her? 
Is he also seeing weird visions?

2088
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:07,440
Is he also struggling with his 
sanity? 

2089
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:10,200
Does that make sense? 
I I don't know. 

2090
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:11,640
No, it makes some sense. 
You're not. 

2091
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:14,080
Everyone around her. 
Since you're not the only person

2092
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:18,240
to have that theory, that by 
itself suggests they might be 

2093
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:20,000
going for that. 
They might be trying to maybe 

2094
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:23,440
make us think that whether it's 
true or not, of course we'll let

2095
01:40:23,440 --> 01:40:25,760
it play out more. 
But yeah, she's a fascinating 

2096
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:27,560
character regardless. 
And they have multiple scenes 

2097
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,480
together in this episode, which 
I love like more. 

2098
01:40:29,480 --> 01:40:32,320
More Damon and Alice scenes are 
OK by me. 

2099
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:36,000
I have a a question too. 
Sure, those three guys that 

2100
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,400
always seem to be at the table 
with Simon. 

2101
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:40,520
Those are his sons. 
Yeah, his sons, yeah. 

2102
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:42,960
We know a couple of their names 
based on Larry. 

2103
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:46,640
Moe and Curly. 
Well, apparently one is Paxter 

2104
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,120
and the other is German or. 
German or German? 

2105
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:50,160
Yeah, I don't know how to say 
that. 

2106
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:51,360
I don't. 
Know how you say that name but. 

2107
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:53,840
Then another one. 
I know there's the third, I 

2108
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:56,120
don't know the 3rd, but we know 
two of the names and I'm not 

2109
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:58,600
sure. 
I also in digging through the 

2110
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:02,520
wiki couldn't quite find the 
source for one of the names. 

2111
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:05,680
The other one was from Redanian 
Intelligence reporting on it and

2112
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:07,120
they often just get like leak 
stuff. 

2113
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:10,680
But either way Redanian has 
reported Serena and reported 

2114
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:12,840
Paxter but I didn't see them say
German. 

2115
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:14,240
I don't know where they got that
name. 

2116
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,200
Interesting. 
I love that scene where they're 

2117
01:41:16,200 --> 01:41:18,440
like up, he's like up, up the 
one he just doesn't notice, he's

2118
01:41:18,440 --> 01:41:19,600
like. 
You guys are still? 

2119
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:21,520
Yeah, he's just eating his food.
Yeah. 

2120
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,920
So one of the cool things about 
Alice is she's, like I said, 

2121
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:28,480
she's a fascinating character on
many levels. 

2122
01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:31,520
For example, she's literally on 
a higher level than him in the 

2123
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:33,000
scene where she's on that 
balcony. 

2124
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:38,240
This is that same balcony that 
Damon got to when he first 

2125
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:40,760
arrived in his reign and armor. 
And he's staring down over 

2126
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:43,280
because that's the overlook of 
the great Council there. 

2127
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:47,520
And this is a really cool shot 
'cause you see her POV of it. 

2128
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:51,560
And this is such a cool moment. 
He's chopping wood and he is the

2129
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:53,760
axe lands. 
He hears that's like he struck 

2130
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:55,640
some woman. 
There's a screaming sound and 

2131
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,920
it's the the bracken commoners 
as the implication here. 

2132
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:02,000
And he looks up and looks back 
and it's like he looks right to 

2133
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:03,760
her, like he knows that she's 
there. 

2134
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:10,080
And it's like she's sending the 
visions to him or, or opening 

2135
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,600
his mind to be able to hear the 
whispers on the wind that she 

2136
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,920
herself is hearing, which she 
confronts him about later. 

2137
01:42:16,240 --> 01:42:18,280
She's like, I've heard these 
sounds, which is. 

2138
01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:21,840
And he's like, oh, news. 
And he's like, she's like news. 

2139
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:26,840
No, I just hear these things on 
the wind and smiles like, and 

2140
01:42:26,840 --> 01:42:31,840
he's like, OK, he she basically 
keeps telling him like, look, 

2141
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:35,320
yo, I'm magical, you know? 
And I'm going to prove it to 

2142
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:39,400
you, but give you just enough 
doubt that you might, you might 

2143
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:40,680
be able to believe. 
I'm not. 

2144
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:44,040
He's not 100% accepting it, but 
he's not 100% rejecting it 

2145
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:46,600
either. 
I think, you know, maybe that's 

2146
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:51,360
the vibe, right? 
So this is the very much in line

2147
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:53,280
with what we know about how the 
Old Gods work. 

2148
01:42:53,280 --> 01:42:56,080
They captured the vibe of things
that are in the books extremely 

2149
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:58,160
well here. 
There's two connections to Old 

2150
01:42:58,160 --> 01:42:59,480
God's magic that you're familiar
with. 

2151
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:04,120
One is that specific language of
whispers on the wind, words on 

2152
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:07,880
the wind, things like that. 
That is 100% how Bran hears 

2153
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:10,920
things when he's trying to speak
to his father and when his 

2154
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:13,880
father sort of maybe hears him 
through the heart tree through 

2155
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:16,560
time. 
And Theon, same thing. 

2156
01:43:16,560 --> 01:43:20,240
Theon thinks the heart tree is 
whispering his name and he's 

2157
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:23,880
like he's he describes it as a 
whisper on the wind, rustle and 

2158
01:43:23,880 --> 01:43:26,600
the leaves. 
The same language is used. 

2159
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:30,680
So it's very much a tight 
connection to Bran and green 

2160
01:43:30,680 --> 01:43:33,160
steer magic. 
The second one is the prior 

2161
01:43:33,160 --> 01:43:37,400
mentioned High Heart. 
Ghost of High Heart of course is

2162
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:39,600
the reference there. 
The Ghost of High Heart which 

2163
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:41,960
Arya sees twice. 
The Brotherhood without Banner 

2164
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:43,400
goes there. 
Without Banners goes there 

2165
01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:45,920
twice. 
During her storyline of Clash 

2166
01:43:45,920 --> 01:43:48,720
and Storm. 
She lives in a weirwood Grove 

2167
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:53,480
that was put to the axe, not 
unlike what Alice Rivers says 

2168
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:55,920
Harrenhal is built on or near. 
It was a weirwood Grove that was

2169
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:57,640
put to the axe. 
And that's the reason for the 

2170
01:43:57,640 --> 01:44:00,400
curse. 
Same concept, right? 

2171
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:05,000
And she's like a news ticker of 
events when they go to visit 

2172
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:06,800
her. 
Even more so than Alice is here.

2173
01:44:06,800 --> 01:44:08,600
It's more supernatural in the 
book. 

2174
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:12,000
The ghost of high heart is drops
way more prophecies than Alice 

2175
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:16,160
Rivers does here. 
She's like 15 to 20 things and a

2176
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:18,280
purple made with purple serpents
in her hair. 

2177
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:20,960
A crow, a you know, a crow 
perched on a bridge with a Raven

2178
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:23,120
on its shoulder or a a dripping 
seaweed on it. 

2179
01:44:23,120 --> 01:44:24,280
Whatever. 
I'm not getting them exactly 

2180
01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:25,960
right. 
But you remember there's so many

2181
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:27,720
of them and they're all 
accurate. 

2182
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:30,760
They're 100% accurate. 
Every single one of them. 

2183
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:33,440
We've been through this, right? 
It's it's the ghost Ohio artist 

2184
01:44:33,440 --> 01:44:34,600
doesn't say a single thing was 
wrong. 

2185
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:36,760
You can misinterpret them, but 
they're all pretty 

2186
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:38,080
straightforward and they're all 
right. 

2187
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:41,000
So this is very much a crossover
to that. 

2188
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:45,000
The trees whispered her and 
either Damon has been granted 

2189
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,720
the ability to hear some of 
those voices or Alice's like 

2190
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:51,120
through the drink or Alice's 
like pushing it into his head a 

2191
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:52,920
little bit or a little of both. 
I don't know. 

2192
01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,440
The supernatural mechanism isn't
necessarily the most important 

2193
01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:59,880
thing for us to to zone in on, 
but something's going on there. 

2194
01:44:59,880 --> 01:45:02,840
No doubt. 
Perhaps the biggest evidence of 

2195
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:08,360
her magical ability is bringing 
up his mother right now. 

2196
01:45:08,360 --> 01:45:12,320
The fact that she died young is 
public information, but but how 

2197
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:16,040
did she know to say that given 
he had just been dreaming about 

2198
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:17,160
her? 
That's the part that's like 

2199
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:19,560
that's that's not a coincidence,
right? 

2200
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:21,360
That would be a crazy 
coincidence. 

2201
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:25,240
Maybe there's a chance it is, 
but that's a big one, right? 

2202
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:28,040
So we'll talk about the actual 
Oedipus dream separately in a 

2203
01:45:28,040 --> 01:45:30,560
minute here, but I just want to 
talk about Alice's side of this.

2204
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:32,240
What? 
What did this mean to you, Sean?

2205
01:45:33,200 --> 01:45:36,720
That that mention of his mother.
Yeah, it definitely got his 

2206
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:39,080
attention. 
But then they were immediately 

2207
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:40,920
interrupted by Simon Strong 
coming in. 

2208
01:45:40,920 --> 01:45:44,000
So it it made me wonder. 
Something I'm not sure about is 

2209
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:48,560
how did his mother die? 
Oh of complications from from 

2210
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:51,600
childbirth? 
OK, yeah, over like a a. 

2211
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:53,400
They would have had another 
brother. 

2212
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,360
He died too. 
Thesaurus and Damon, Yeah. 

2213
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,800
Damon, they didn't have any 
other sisters or they didn't 

2214
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:00,880
have any other siblings. 
They would have, but not. 

2215
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:03,800
Through Alyssa. 
If Olf is right that he's a 

2216
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:08,440
bastard of bail on the brave, 
then they have 1/2 brother named

2217
01:46:08,440 --> 01:46:11,280
Olf. 
Good point, but not necessarily.

2218
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:13,720
Get out of here. 
I love that. 

2219
01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:18,680
So yeah. 
So that's there is some some of 

2220
01:46:18,680 --> 01:46:20,040
that, like I said, some of 
that's public knowledge. 

2221
01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:22,480
It's crazy that she knows that 
knows to say that. 

2222
01:46:22,480 --> 01:46:23,880
Yeah, you're right. 
You're right that it's a 

2223
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:25,920
developing situation. 
It's it's it's borrowing another

2224
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:28,120
trick from George. 
Something supernatural happens 

2225
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:30,040
and then it's interrupted before
it's fully explained. 

2226
01:46:30,120 --> 01:46:32,240
So they're like, oh, they did 
that George trick. 

2227
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:34,920
Dang it. 
So I'm sure that maybe, maybe 

2228
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:37,760
I'm not sure, but I think we're 
going to progress with that. 

2229
01:46:37,760 --> 01:46:40,360
We're surely not done with Alice
Rivers, and we're even more sure

2230
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,720
we're not done with Damon. 
It's like not only does she ask 

2231
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:45,800
about his mother, but in the 
scene that happens to me of him 

2232
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:49,480
eating there, she looks at him 
as you see on the screen, like 

2233
01:46:49,480 --> 01:46:55,200
she looks at him very like as if
he is waiting to see if it, you 

2234
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:58,240
know, what he's tripping on. 
Jimmy Pear, Everybody else 

2235
01:46:58,240 --> 01:46:59,680
appears to be staring at him too
in the scene. 

2236
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:00,960
But you're right, she stares 
even more. 

2237
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:03,560
She like she she's the first one
to look and the last one to look

2238
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:05,120
away I think if I remember 
right. 

2239
01:47:05,960 --> 01:47:08,960
I also want to point out the I 
don't know how much meaning 

2240
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:11,880
there was behind it 
specifically, but when they're 

2241
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:15,040
going back and forth between the
duck or goose, I prefer goose. 

2242
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:22,320
Wasn't that the conversation 
between Lenor and Renira when 

2243
01:47:22,320 --> 01:47:26,200
they were being betrothed? 
Oh, they're debating which which

2244
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:27,800
to serve. 
Some people prefer duck or. 

2245
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:29,360
Whatever, I don't didn't catch 
that. 

2246
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:31,400
That might be a yeah, that's a 
good catch, I guess, Sean, if 

2247
01:47:31,440 --> 01:47:34,400
that's if you're remembering. 
It right, Damon's hiding his 

2248
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:37,520
latent homosexual urges. 
I just thought it was a 

2249
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:39,400
reference to Duck, Duck, goose. 
You know, they were. 

2250
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:41,760
That's why the one guy didn't 
stand up at the right time. 

2251
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:45,960
There's. 
A lot of layers to it. 

2252
01:47:45,960 --> 01:47:48,160
Yeah, so many layers. 
Look at the depth is incredible 

2253
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:51,240
here, yeah. 
One other little minor note, by 

2254
01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:54,320
the way. 
When, as far as I can tell, you 

2255
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:56,480
know, it's hard to know what 
they intended with the editing. 

2256
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:00,720
But when he's talking to Alice 
and Simon Strong comes in, she 

2257
01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:03,320
kind of steps away. 
He looks at her. 

2258
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:07,520
She steps behind him. 
But then they go back and forth 

2259
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:10,720
between Simon and Damon. 
But she doesn't appear again. 

2260
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:13,520
I don't know if she left the 
room or she's just standing in 

2261
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,880
the corner. 
She is she Privy to overhear 

2262
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:17,880
everything? 
Simon doesn't seem to be worried

2263
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:23,440
about talking about, you know, 
messages to the King, I thought.

2264
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:26,360
I thought she was just walking 
out as he walked in like you. 

2265
01:48:26,360 --> 01:48:29,000
Just don't see her exit. 
You don't see her leave. 

2266
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:33,480
And, and it I'm extra thinking 
about it because it's so odd, 

2267
01:48:33,480 --> 01:48:38,360
the way Damon turns with the axe
and points it right at Simon, 

2268
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,880
but ostensibly Alice is right 
behind him. 

2269
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:43,520
He's pointing the axe at her, 
too. 

2270
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:44,800
I I just don't. 
See it? 

2271
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:46,200
I think she left that room, I 
think. 

2272
01:48:46,200 --> 01:48:48,800
We see her walk out and she. 
Left, I think you're screeching.

2273
01:48:49,680 --> 01:48:51,320
She he tells her war is a 
terrible thing. 

2274
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:54,400
He's like, yeah, this is just 
how war works and sort of right.

2275
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:57,040
But mostly not. 
She says, this isn't war. 

2276
01:48:57,440 --> 01:49:00,680
This is, you know, just 
depredation's on the innocence. 

2277
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:01,960
Once again, in the name of 
power. 

2278
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:04,520
It's the weakened women who must
endure, she says, and any 

2279
01:49:04,520 --> 01:49:06,960
upright man would repudiate the 
deeds that she's hearing. 

2280
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:10,160
Of course, he responds that he's
not an upright man and passes 

2281
01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:11,880
the book. 
Like, as so many times happens 

2282
01:49:11,880 --> 01:49:13,160
at this episode. 
He's like, well, you think I'm 

2283
01:49:13,160 --> 01:49:15,280
bad? 
Where do you meet Eamon? 

2284
01:49:15,280 --> 01:49:20,360
You better hope you don't. 
He is worse, you know, and given

2285
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:23,960
his attitude towards Strong's, 
Damon might actually be right 

2286
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:28,280
for the wrong reasons. 
But the more immediate point is 

2287
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:30,360
she says, well, I heard the same
thing about you before you got 

2288
01:49:30,360 --> 01:49:31,920
here. 
He could argue that. 

2289
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:34,680
Well, I haven't done that. 
I haven't killed you or done of 

2290
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:36,920
these things, but it's not much 
better. 

2291
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:39,320
And then she needles him 
regarding Rainier. 

2292
01:49:39,320 --> 01:49:42,640
He's like, surely the queen has 
approved your strategy, right, 

2293
01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:44,840
Right. 
And he's like and that's when 

2294
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,640
she that's when he again passes 
the buck. 

2295
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:49,480
He's like they won't follow her,
they won't, it's not going to 

2296
01:49:49,480 --> 01:49:51,560
work, that method won't work, 
blah blah blah blah blah. 

2297
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:55,120
You know, So again, he's bad 
argument that method. 

2298
01:49:55,280 --> 01:49:58,920
Won't work and I'll see to it 
I'll make sure it doesn't work. 

2299
01:49:59,440 --> 01:50:02,000
Yeah, there's a little bit of a 
parallel here to Baylor and 

2300
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:05,240
Corley's winning someone over by
trying to get them to look at 

2301
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:07,520
themselves. 
But Damon is. 

2302
01:50:07,520 --> 01:50:08,680
It's a lot harder to do that 
with Damon. 

2303
01:50:08,680 --> 01:50:10,720
He's a lot stubborn or even 
though he's having these dreams 

2304
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:12,560
that are doing all these things,
like his conscience is 

2305
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:15,880
absolutely barking at him and 
his guilt is flaring up quite a 

2306
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:18,720
bit. 
But yeah, he is not there. 

2307
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:22,800
I don't want to pull anything 
spoilery out but just generally 

2308
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:25,840
speaking I assume in the book 
there's no way they get into 

2309
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,040
Damons head like this. 
There's always some Maester 

2310
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:30,120
nose. 
Alice Rivers gave him someone 

2311
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:33,120
Lucinogenic. 
This is all like A and it is not

2312
01:50:33,120 --> 01:50:35,480
a complaint. 
I love this, but this is. 

2313
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:40,240
Yeah, it explicitly says that it
doesn't appear that she had much

2314
01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:42,880
effect on Damon, which we don't 
have to read as truth, but it's,

2315
01:50:42,880 --> 01:50:45,680
it's like 1 lined away, you 
know, it's hardly said at all. 

2316
01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:47,040
Yeah. 
So, yeah, there's a there's 

2317
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:49,600
there's a lot of expansion of 
this part of the story from the 

2318
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,160
book 'cause it's, it's just not 
very well. 

2319
01:50:52,160 --> 01:50:53,560
It's not very expanded in the 
1st place. 

2320
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:58,960
It's, it's rather short. 
It's efficient, shall we say. 

2321
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:00,480
It left a lot of room for 
expansion. 

2322
01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:05,520
And this is that expansion as 
Allison is our window into the 

2323
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:10,080
escalation of the Greens 
depredations. 

2324
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:13,040
Alice is our window into that 
side of the Blacks, which for 

2325
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:16,480
now is mostly Damon with an 
assist from Willem Blackwood. 

2326
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:18,640
And here come the angry river 
Lords. 

2327
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:21,560
This scene begins as if it's 
going to be another dream for 

2328
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:25,480
like the third episode in a row.
He hears or and sees like 

2329
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:29,040
marching and light below his 
door. 

2330
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:30,840
This time it's actually a 
person. 

2331
01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:33,240
It really is Simon Strong this 
time, knocking on his door. 

2332
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:36,240
This was so good. 
I love a good inversion of like 

2333
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:39,400
your expectations like that. 
I love that as a style and 

2334
01:51:39,400 --> 01:51:41,160
filmmaking and anything like 
that. 

2335
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:44,800
It's just, it's just very, very 
humorous and effective. 

2336
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:47,040
Yeah, it just you totally think,
oh, here comes another dream. 

2337
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:49,560
We've had so many of them. 
It's like, Oh no, it's someone's

2338
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:50,520
waking up in the middle of the 
night. 

2339
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:52,960
It's it's really happening. 
And again, it's Simon kind of 

2340
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:56,760
that's the pull you out of dream
mode, you know, like it can 

2341
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:58,880
maybe he's maybe it's a sign 
that he's kind of immune to 

2342
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:01,840
those dreams in the first place.
At least one, maybe a couple of 

2343
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:05,640
these times when he's in this 
half dream state, he comes to 

2344
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:09,080
reality at dinner, right? 
It's true. 

2345
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,200
He's like, how is it time for 
pudding now? 

2346
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:14,280
It's a good joke, Yeah, he's 
almost expected that. 

2347
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:15,760
He's in the middle of another 
dream. 

2348
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:17,440
Yeah. 
He's like, is this dinner? 

2349
01:52:17,440 --> 01:52:18,440
Yeah. 
Am I at dinner now? 

2350
01:52:18,480 --> 01:52:19,440
Yeah. 
He doesn't even know where he 

2351
01:52:19,440 --> 01:52:20,440
is. 
You're right. 

2352
01:52:20,680 --> 01:52:23,720
And so a delegation arrives in 
the night and I get being grumpy

2353
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:25,760
and woken to the middle of the 
night, and he's like, what are 

2354
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,320
you doing here? 
But he doesn't, he doesn't think

2355
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:29,560
at all about why they might be 
here. 

2356
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:30,920
It's not a good reason. 
So. 

2357
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,040
But maybe that's maybe he does 
realize that. 

2358
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:34,680
And so he's like, well, I'm 
going to attack. 

2359
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,080
I'm going into attack mode. 
I'm not going to let them come 

2360
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:39,320
at me. 
I'm going to try to shame them 

2361
01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:41,160
for awakening their king in the 
middle of the night. 

2362
01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:43,920
I'm your Targaryen master. 
Is this really how you treat me?

2363
01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:47,120
And they're like, we're not 
having any of that nonsense. 

2364
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:51,160
Shut up and listen to us. 
Alice was kind of the good cop. 

2365
01:52:51,160 --> 01:52:53,600
Like, you know, you're doing bad
things here, man. 

2366
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:57,840
They're just like, you suck. 
You are awful. 

2367
01:52:58,240 --> 01:52:59,880
And we have the following River 
Lords. 

2368
01:53:00,280 --> 01:53:02,400
Lord Dairy. 
Lord Peter Piper. 

2369
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:03,440
Yeah. 
Lord Peter Piper. 

2370
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:05,920
That's from the book Peter Piper
picked. 

2371
01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:07,640
No, we won't go there. 
But that's the name. 

2372
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:09,960
Lady Malaster and Wallace 
Mouton. 

2373
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:11,960
Wallace Mouton, also directly 
from the book. 

2374
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:17,000
Seems like they've swapped Lord 
Jora Malaster to be a Lady 

2375
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:19,240
Malaster. 
Sometimes genders get swapped. 

2376
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:22,800
Happened in Game of Thrones. 
Here we have that here again, 

2377
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:24,600
yeah. 
You're right, that does happen. 

2378
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:26,000
I'd I'd forgotten about Jorah 
Malister. 

2379
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,440
Good call. 
So they accuse him of sending 

2380
01:53:28,440 --> 01:53:30,440
Will and Blackwood to commit 
atrocities against black and 

2381
01:53:30,440 --> 01:53:32,200
commoners. 
He's like, I didn't like I 

2382
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:34,240
didn't do that. 
And they're like, yo, they had 

2383
01:53:34,240 --> 01:53:37,240
black and red Targaryen banners.
How are you going to deny that? 

2384
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:40,160
He's like, oh, what the hell? 
That surprises him, which is 

2385
01:53:40,160 --> 01:53:42,640
surprising to us too. 
He's very back footed by that, 

2386
01:53:42,840 --> 01:53:46,280
but he still tries to like get 
the upper hand in the 

2387
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:48,240
conversation, but it's just not 
happening. 

2388
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:53,040
He's like he's like you're a 
baby killer and he's like who? 

2389
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,520
Whoever said that I want to have
them brought before him. 

2390
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:59,000
He's like, well, the whole half 
the realm saying it, man, and 

2391
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:02,680
he's he's he just says that with
absolutely no conviction, right,

2392
01:54:02,880 --> 01:54:05,160
And they call him a tyrant to 
his face and storm out. 

2393
01:54:05,160 --> 01:54:06,800
I bet you just really 
appreciated that, didn't you, 

2394
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:09,640
Sean? 
Well, they're kind of indirectly

2395
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:12,960
calling Ranira a tyrant. 
I I wondered how much they meant

2396
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:16,200
to be calling him a Ranira. 
How much do they know or believe

2397
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:17,840
that he's there? 
Good point on behalf. 

2398
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:21,240
Good point, I know. 
Either way, it's not good. 

2399
01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:23,720
Either way, it's it's a really 
bad situation. 

2400
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:26,600
And his his, I don't know, his 
defenses. 

2401
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:30,320
You can't prove that. 
Like I wasn't supposed to get 

2402
01:54:30,320 --> 01:54:32,120
caught doing these. 
Bad things, you know, like. 

2403
01:54:32,600 --> 01:54:35,640
There's not like remorse for the
bad things that both both 

2404
01:54:35,680 --> 01:54:38,200
morally or strategically, it's 
just crap. 

2405
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:39,720
I'm caught. 
That's his only. 

2406
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:44,880
Yeah, regret. 
He's red handed, you know, kind 

2407
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:46,480
of like he was in the dream 
before. 

2408
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:50,040
And yeah, so they, I mean, he's 
pretty much what they say he is.

2409
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:52,280
Like they're pretty much 
everything they say is, is 

2410
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:54,760
pretty accurate. 
And as he said himself to Alice,

2411
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:57,480
yeah, he's not an upright man. 
So like he he has to agree, kind

2412
01:54:57,480 --> 01:54:59,320
of has to agree with them. 
Like, yeah, you got me. 

2413
01:54:59,600 --> 01:55:01,560
So. 
And his plan, as he told Alice 

2414
01:55:01,560 --> 01:55:04,040
was, oh, I'll, I'll treat them 
fairly once they follow. 

2415
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:06,320
And she's like, Are you sure you
want an army of people who hate 

2416
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:08,160
you who will turn on you as soon
as they get a chance? 

2417
01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:11,680
He's like, well, once they see 
how I treat them fairly, they 

2418
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:14,200
won't turn on me anymore 'cause 
once we get going, it's like, 

2419
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:16,480
but, right? 
But now they're not even going 

2420
01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:17,840
to follow you. 
This is how it looks. 

2421
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:19,240
They're not. 
Even going to get to that point.

2422
01:55:19,240 --> 01:55:22,760
Yeah, so. 
I will point out that even Simon

2423
01:55:22,760 --> 01:55:24,560
Strong seems to be wavering a 
little bit. 

2424
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:28,680
Yeah, not only there was like 
the the the payment thing and he

2425
01:55:28,680 --> 01:55:31,080
was like, I'll take care of it. 
So I was like, all right, we'll,

2426
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:33,520
we'll see. 
Like, you're not going to have 

2427
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:38,600
food, dude, I'm telling you. 
And then he gets the insisted to

2428
01:55:38,600 --> 01:55:43,440
call him king. 
And now here comes news of what 

2429
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:46,160
seems to be Damon terrorizing 
the pot. 

2430
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:49,680
Like, Simon is kind of stuck in 
the castle with him, so he has 

2431
01:55:49,680 --> 01:55:52,440
to kind of keep being his ally. 
But I don't know if he's going 

2432
01:55:52,440 --> 01:55:55,120
to. 
When it comes to it, Damon is 

2433
01:55:55,120 --> 01:55:56,640
not rallying the troops. 
He's not, no. 

2434
01:55:56,640 --> 01:55:58,440
He's not. 
He's not rallying the troops. 

2435
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:00,560
He's turning them away if 
anything. 

2436
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,440
So an interesting thing to catch
here is he actually before this 

2437
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:09,360
happens and Strong tells him 
that the Brackens have submitted

2438
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:11,680
to the Blackwoods. 
He's like all right, send for 

2439
01:56:11,680 --> 01:56:13,320
Will and Blackwood. 
I want to congratulate him. 

2440
01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:15,760
So he's already on his way 
apparently, but this is before 

2441
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:18,880
he learns that he betrayed him 
by flying his banners, which we 

2442
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:20,240
have to. 
Maybe we'll get an explanation 

2443
01:56:20,240 --> 01:56:23,840
on why he did that, but it 
anyway, we'll have to wait and 

2444
01:56:23,840 --> 01:56:25,440
see on that point. 
It's interesting for sure. 

2445
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:29,640
As the scene ends, he's like, 
like I said, back footed and 

2446
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:33,920
confused. 
And then he sees his wife again.

2447
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:37,880
He sees Lena again. 
And she again guilts him like as

2448
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:41,160
almost as much as anyone else in
the room who's actually there. 

2449
01:56:41,640 --> 01:56:44,760
Says, you know, the realm is at 
war. 

2450
01:56:44,760 --> 01:56:46,440
Are you protecting our 
daughters? 

2451
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:48,880
And, you know, I haven't even 
had a conversation with them 

2452
01:56:48,880 --> 01:56:52,240
this season. 
Yeah, I literally ignored Bayla 

2453
01:56:52,240 --> 01:56:56,000
as I stormed off to come here, 
didn't say a single word to her 

2454
01:56:56,160 --> 01:56:59,520
and haven't sent word like, 
yeah, you're ignoring Rainiera, 

2455
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,320
but you could contact Raina or 
Bayla. 

2456
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:05,160
Exactly. 
She's exactly right to call him 

2457
01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:07,680
out on this. 
He's been so absent. 

2458
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:12,120
That's the one thing we can 
cling to is that he has the 

2459
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:13,480
guilt. 
The guilt is there. 

2460
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:16,560
At least he's not a complete 
psychopath that just has no 

2461
01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:19,200
concern at all, which is like, 
well, hopefully this brings some

2462
01:57:19,200 --> 01:57:21,040
good out of him. 
I don't know that it will, but. 

2463
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:24,040
Yeah, Tony Soprano had some 
guilt, too. 

2464
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:26,160
He sure did. 
Again, that's why I brought him 

2465
01:57:26,160 --> 01:57:27,240
up. 
He's a good example like it. 

2466
01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:29,920
It helped him, but it didn't 
really necessarily make him a 

2467
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:32,560
better person that there be. 
Not stopping him from being a 

2468
01:57:32,560 --> 01:57:33,840
villain. 
No, it didn't. 

2469
01:57:34,240 --> 01:57:35,640
Let's talk about the Oedipus 
dream. 

2470
01:57:35,640 --> 01:57:40,680
Yes, interestingly, that Damon 
is a Greek word and he's the one

2471
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:45,200
having this Greek moment 'cause 
even Targaryens don't bang their

2472
01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:47,600
moms. 
Like, that's and and isn't it 

2473
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:49,480
weird how, like, incest is 
creepy? 

2474
01:57:49,840 --> 01:57:52,760
But this is definitely creepier.
Like this is a level of incest 

2475
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:54,120
that's like, this is the worst, 
right? 

2476
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:55,600
This is this the worst kind of 
incest? 

2477
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:57,680
Father, daughter, mother, son. 
Like, I think that's the worst 

2478
01:57:57,680 --> 01:57:59,840
kind. 
I mean, you see in this shot how

2479
01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:02,880
haunted Damon is by this. 
Once he realizes who it is, 

2480
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:04,000
yeah, 'cause at first he doesn't
he. 

2481
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:07,520
Is not like, oh hot, what a 
great wet dream I had. 

2482
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:10,760
He's like, no, that was a messed
up dream man. 

2483
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,280
I got some problems. 
Yeah, yeah, and it's 

2484
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:15,360
interesting, like the vibe in it
too. 

2485
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:18,240
He does. 
And This is why it's important 

2486
01:58:18,240 --> 01:58:19,560
that Alice points out. 
It's too bad you didn't know 

2487
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:20,760
your mother. 
That's why that line is really 

2488
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:22,840
big, 'cause he doesn't. 
That's why he doesn't recognize 

2489
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:24,200
her in the dream. 
He doesn't even barely know. 

2490
01:58:24,200 --> 01:58:25,400
He barely knows what she looks 
like. 

2491
01:58:25,400 --> 01:58:28,200
And there's, you know, there's a
few differences here than what 

2492
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:30,680
we would have imagined from her 
book version, which might be 

2493
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:33,200
just the the show didn't care. 
They just made her look like a 

2494
01:58:33,200 --> 01:58:34,720
Targaryen. 
But it might be because Damon 

2495
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:36,320
doesn't actually know what she 
looks like. 

2496
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:39,560
So they're having sex in the 
dream, but it's more like him 

2497
01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:43,120
pleasuring her while she praises
him. 

2498
01:58:43,120 --> 01:58:45,480
Like he's. 
She's stroking his ego while 

2499
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:46,560
he's stroking her. 
Yeah. 

2500
01:58:46,720 --> 01:58:51,840
I love the idea to have generic 
Targaryen as his mother. 

2501
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:54,600
I'm like, I've already seen so 
many tweets of people being 

2502
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:57,560
really upset about this. 
I'm like, you guys, just take a 

2503
01:58:57,560 --> 01:58:59,120
moment. 
Like one, I've seen people upset

2504
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:01,680
that she doesn't look like 
Alyssa looks like in the books. 

2505
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:05,240
And two, I've seen people upset 
that he's screwing his mom in 

2506
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:07,160
his dream. 
And I'm like, that's the point. 

2507
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,040
It's like the darkest, like most
messed up thing he could think 

2508
01:59:10,040 --> 01:59:11,960
about. 
And he doesn't even actually 

2509
01:59:11,960 --> 01:59:14,520
know what his mom looks like. 
He just sees this idealized like

2510
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:18,880
perfect Targaryen woman. 
And I, I think it's brilliantly 

2511
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,280
done right here. 
I just shout out to them, even 

2512
01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:23,680
if they pissed off a lot of 
people by not giving her a 

2513
01:59:23,680 --> 01:59:26,720
broken nose like Damon doesn't, 
he's not going to picture her 

2514
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:28,320
flaws. 
Why would he picture that? 

2515
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:34,440
Yeah, and yeah, it's just like 
every show, movie, fandom, and 

2516
01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:37,120
even in real life, people 
imagine that when you go to the 

2517
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:40,160
afterlife, you're whole again. 
So her nose wouldn't be broken, 

2518
01:59:40,520 --> 01:59:43,080
it would be healed. 
But she also has silver hair and

2519
01:59:43,080 --> 01:59:45,920
not dirty blonde hair and also 
has just doesn't have multicolor

2520
01:59:45,920 --> 01:59:47,920
eyes. 
Again, even if Damon has been 

2521
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:53,320
told your mother had those 
features in his weird like dream

2522
01:59:53,320 --> 01:59:56,080
state here, he's not going to 
think like if you have a dream, 

2523
01:59:56,080 --> 01:59:58,080
that's not how it works. 
You're going to picture like 

2524
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:01,320
what you picture your silly 
haired perfect Targaryen mother 

2525
02:00:01,320 --> 02:00:04,400
looking like. 
And if we think Alice has any 

2526
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:08,560
kind of impact in this dream or 
knowledge, then that could be at

2527
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:10,080
play as well. 
I don't necessarily think if. 

2528
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:11,080
She's affecting it. 
Yeah. 

2529
02:00:11,080 --> 02:00:13,680
He saw how he saw Damon. 
I mean, he saw himself as Amond.

2530
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:16,400
Like that's not what? 
He looks like. 

2531
02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:18,160
It's a dream version, yeah, 
Yeah. 

2532
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:20,040
So yeah, I agree with that 
there. 

2533
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:23,200
I don't know shit. 
I think this is messed up. 

2534
02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:26,480
Damon should really be dreaming 
about having sex with his cousin

2535
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:32,120
and niece. 
So the thing she. 

2536
02:00:32,880 --> 02:00:35,920
Said I draw it at the mall. 
I try to line him up. 

2537
02:00:36,440 --> 02:00:38,720
She calls him stronger than his 
brother. 

2538
02:00:38,720 --> 02:00:41,440
That Viserys lacked the stamina 
for the throne. 

2539
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:46,320
That you're the fearless dragon 
writer, the best swordsman and 

2540
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:48,240
then she calls him her favorite 
son and that's when he's like 

2541
02:00:48,240 --> 02:00:51,440
wait what? 
Excuse me favorite what now was 

2542
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:56,400
that SUNI hope so and and his 
dream self becomes confused and 

2543
02:00:56,400 --> 02:00:58,960
there's that trail of blood by 
her neck which is. 

2544
02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:01,440
Can I tell you what I think 
about with that? 

2545
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:04,240
Like, it keeps being like one 
hand, you know? 

2546
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:07,120
And like, I think some of it has
to maybe his guilt about the 

2547
02:01:07,120 --> 02:01:09,880
beheading of Jerry's. 
But I think more of what I keep 

2548
02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:13,720
coming back to is his guilt over
it wasn't bloody, but over 

2549
02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:17,000
strangling Rainiera. 
I feel that that was the hand he

2550
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:20,480
used to strangle his wife. 
And I feel that the fact that 

2551
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:23,720
it's one hand in particular is 
really notable to me. 

2552
02:01:23,720 --> 02:01:27,160
And that's what I keep coming 
back to is, is Raniera guilt? 

2553
02:01:27,560 --> 02:01:29,800
It was even when he, when he 
beheads Raniera. 

2554
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:33,200
She's even in the dress she was 
wearing when he strangled her, 

2555
02:01:33,360 --> 02:01:34,760
when he choked her out, you 
know? 

2556
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:35,960
And he didn't choke her one 
handed. 

2557
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:37,120
That's why it's important to 
point out. 

2558
02:01:37,120 --> 02:01:39,080
Yeah, he. 
Didn't like if it was two bloody

2559
02:01:39,080 --> 02:01:42,080
hands, I'd be like, he feels 
guilt over all of the the death 

2560
02:01:42,080 --> 02:01:44,160
and all of that. 
But I think it's more directed. 

2561
02:01:44,720 --> 02:01:47,880
You know, when he smashed his 
wife's head in with the stone, 

2562
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:49,600
do you think he did it with one 
or two hands? 

2563
02:01:52,520 --> 02:01:53,320
There's. 
That too. 

2564
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:56,240
Yeah, there's that. 
Too, But I just, you know, he 

2565
02:01:56,280 --> 02:01:59,000
should feel guilty over that, 
but I don't think he does I. 

2566
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:00,800
Don't see a? 
Ray of Roy's vision. 

2567
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:02,920
I just don't think we will. 
I love that. 

2568
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:04,640
And by the way. 
I like your take of shade. 

2569
02:02:04,640 --> 02:02:08,800
To be clear, I wanted to get the
digging on his his errand wife 

2570
02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:11,200
but. 
By the way, generic Targaryen, 

2571
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:15,200
generic Targaryen is spelled 
GENAERIC. 

2572
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:16,760
Generic. 
Yes, Targaryen. 

2573
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:19,760
Yeah, Yeah. 
So this also is a point though. 

2574
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:22,440
Him thinking of, oh, you're the 
better warrior, That means 

2575
02:02:22,440 --> 02:02:24,600
you're better than your brother.
This is this very much ties into

2576
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:27,560
what I'm saying about Viserys 
being more peaceful and how it 

2577
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:29,480
it goes into that gendered 
argument of yeah, the. 

2578
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:31,440
Well, he's a man, He's more 
prepared for war. 

2579
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:34,320
Well, Viserys is a man, but he's
not more prepared for war. 

2580
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:37,680
So what are you saying here? 
Just it's just, it's just might 

2581
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:39,840
makes right. 
Like that's it, That's what it 

2582
02:02:39,840 --> 02:02:41,280
boils down to. 
And it's like, well, that's 

2583
02:02:41,520 --> 02:02:44,280
that's not good, you know, and 
we can, I don't get behind that.

2584
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:49,680
So Baylor and Ranira, this has a
great conversation. 

2585
02:02:50,280 --> 02:02:54,440
They talk about Alyssa as well. 
So ties into the the scene with 

2586
02:02:54,440 --> 02:02:56,600
his mother because they add more
detail about her. 

2587
02:02:56,600 --> 02:02:58,160
And this is this is this is 
pretty cool. 

2588
02:02:58,160 --> 02:03:00,640
And then maybe it gets into a 
little more of Damon's psyche. 

2589
02:03:01,240 --> 02:03:03,920
Alyssa was the first rider of 
Melee's and the only other rider

2590
02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:06,040
besides Rainey's. 
And it's pointed that Melis was 

2591
02:03:06,040 --> 02:03:07,760
really fast, like the fastest 
beast. 

2592
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:09,800
Whoever lived was what Bayless 
says. 

2593
02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:12,000
And that might be like, I don't 
know if she could really know 

2594
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,440
that for a fact. 
But Melis was really fast. 

2595
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:18,280
And that's part of that enters 
into the discussion of why she 

2596
02:03:18,280 --> 02:03:21,760
was ployed the way she was, why 
Rainey's thought she had maybe 

2597
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:23,560
the chance to win and things 
like that. 

2598
02:03:24,720 --> 02:03:27,600
The fact that she was rejected, 
that she rejected Damon is 

2599
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:30,480
interesting and might be like 
part of his psyche, like his 

2600
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,880
mother's dragon rejected him. 
That's the one he went for 

2601
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:36,280
first. 
But didn't reject Rainey's 

2602
02:03:36,440 --> 02:03:38,760
right? 
Like Oh well, maybe this dragon 

2603
02:03:38,760 --> 02:03:39,760
prefers women. 
I don't know. 

2604
02:03:40,840 --> 02:03:43,000
So two out of two that doesn't 
exactly prove a pattern. 

2605
02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:45,160
But you know, that's it's 
something. 

2606
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:49,680
And Alyssa was very interesting 
in that she maybe this is book 

2607
02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:52,320
cannon only, but until we're 
told otherwise I assume it's 

2608
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:55,160
also show cannon. 
When Viseros was like 3 days 

2609
02:03:55,160 --> 02:03:58,120
old, she strapped him to her 
chest and flew off on her dragon

2610
02:03:58,120 --> 02:04:00,920
melees and took him flying and 
then did the same for Damon 

2611
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:03,080
within a few days of his birth, 
which was about three years 

2612
02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:05,120
later. 
So yeah. 

2613
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:08,800
So get them started young. 
Talk about like, that's that's 

2614
02:04:09,360 --> 02:04:11,920
that's like another level of 
like, well, piercing your ears 

2615
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:13,440
when you're really young. 
No, take them on their first 

2616
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:15,480
dragon ride when they're three 
days old. 

2617
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:18,720
But I'm sure they were strapped 
in. 

2618
02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:22,320
Well, you know. 
Well, I won, yes. 

2619
02:04:22,720 --> 02:04:25,560
I love that they referred to 
Alyssa here. 

2620
02:04:25,560 --> 02:04:28,600
And I think that you're right, 
Aziz, that it does give us that 

2621
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:32,960
necessary insight into the fact 
that he kind of always longs to 

2622
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:35,200
have a closeness to his mom. 
Perhaps. 

2623
02:04:35,200 --> 02:04:37,320
I think that makes sense to me, 
just makes sense. 

2624
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:41,280
Also, I just want to say in this
scene, I know what happens. 

2625
02:04:41,280 --> 02:04:43,200
Read the book. 
Like, I know that Corliss was 

2626
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:47,120
going to be offered the hand 
pin, you know, But when she 

2627
02:04:47,120 --> 02:04:50,560
pulls the box out and she like 
is going to give it to, I don't 

2628
02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:52,640
know why my pictures isn't 
loading up, but she's going to 

2629
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:55,920
give it to Baylor there. 
There was like a brief moment, 

2630
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:57,440
right? 
Like my heart was in my throat 

2631
02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:02,600
and I was like Baila. 
I was like, no, I I knew that 

2632
02:05:02,600 --> 02:05:04,600
Corliss was, it was just like 
this brief moment. 

2633
02:05:04,600 --> 02:05:07,800
And I'm so curious if any like 
show only people were like, 

2634
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:10,960
what's she giving Baila? 
Like, what did you think she was

2635
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:13,480
giving Baila? 
What was happening here Anyways?

2636
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:18,440
I find it to be a little bit 
manipulative of Rainiera to use 

2637
02:05:18,440 --> 02:05:22,080
Baila in this method to get 
Corliss on board. 

2638
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:25,720
I think she's right to do it. 
I don't think it's wrong, but 

2639
02:05:25,720 --> 02:05:28,800
like it's like she's kind of 
like having this bonding morning

2640
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:33,440
moment with Bayla just to kind 
of get her to to take the hand 

2641
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:36,000
pin to Coralie's. 
Like maybe not just for that, 

2642
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:39,040
but I don't know. 
It was, which is maybe me giving

2643
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:42,560
props to Rainier just as much as
like saying like it was 

2644
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:45,440
manipulative, that's she needs 
to be manipulative. 

2645
02:05:45,440 --> 02:05:49,040
She needs to like make things 
happen that are good for her. 

2646
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:52,080
It was a good move. 
Yeah, and Baila's clearly the 

2647
02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:54,120
right person to send, even if 
we're just looking at in 

2648
02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:56,680
retrospect and she wants to rely
on Baila more and more. 

2649
02:05:56,680 --> 02:05:58,840
So she has to send her into a 
variety of situations to see how

2650
02:05:58,840 --> 02:06:00,560
she handles them. 
It's like, OK, she did good 

2651
02:06:00,560 --> 02:06:01,400
there. 
I'm going to do that again. 

2652
02:06:01,400 --> 02:06:03,800
I'm going to use her again in a 
similar diplomatic situation or,

2653
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:06,000
or something, you know, because 
yeah, she's a young woman. 

2654
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:08,160
She doesn't, she doesn't fully 
know what she's capable of yet. 

2655
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:09,960
Even Baila doesn't know what 
she's fully capable of yet. 

2656
02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:14,640
By the way, with the mentioning 
Damon and his mother issues, 

2657
02:06:15,640 --> 02:06:18,280
another parallel to Amond very 
clearly has mother issues. 

2658
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:20,280
He comes out and says that you 
and Mitchell does in the 

2659
02:06:20,280 --> 02:06:22,040
interview that I referred to 
earlier days like, yeah, this 

2660
02:06:22,040 --> 02:06:26,640
dude has mommy issues. 
And yes, what is Damon Many the 

2661
02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:29,040
1000 and 15th parallel between 
those two. 

2662
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:33,120
And I guess Bayla and Reyna have
daddy issues and mommy issues. 

2663
02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:35,800
They. 
Don't have a good lot in life at

2664
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:37,560
all and they seem pretty well 
adjusted. 

2665
02:06:38,000 --> 02:06:40,520
I will say, like Baylor and 
Rayna seem pretty decent, but. 

2666
02:06:40,640 --> 02:06:43,560
Have each other that helped. 
I mean, do they it seems like. 

2667
02:06:43,560 --> 02:06:44,520
Well, they did have each other. 
They've. 

2668
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:46,960
Been separated for large parts 
of their lives, considering 

2669
02:06:46,960 --> 02:06:50,280
Baylor was over with Rainey's 
and and Rayna was not, you know,

2670
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:52,720
like they have been separated 
for pretty large bits of their 

2671
02:06:52,720 --> 02:06:53,160
life. 
That's. 

2672
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:54,920
True, and they have large 
amounts of time together too 

2673
02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:55,520
though. 
But you're. 

2674
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:59,040
Yeah, yeah, anyways. 
Yeah, they they, they are self 

2675
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:03,240
reliant and reliant. 
Had each other, didn't do too 

2676
02:07:03,240 --> 02:07:08,400
much good. 
So our final scene of the 

2677
02:07:08,440 --> 02:07:13,240
episode is the Jason Rainiera 
scene where they discuss the 

2678
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:15,760
blood of the dragon. 
Rainiera again reading about 

2679
02:07:15,760 --> 02:07:18,520
Vesenia. 
Jason's like, don't be like her.

2680
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:20,920
And it's a little ominous when 
she's like, well, why shouldn't 

2681
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:23,120
I be? 
And all he has is it was a long 

2682
02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:24,560
time ago. 
He doesn't have a good retort 

2683
02:07:24,560 --> 02:07:25,360
for that. 
He's kind of. 

2684
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:28,440
I liked your comment as these. 
You're like well he's like no, 

2685
02:07:28,440 --> 02:07:32,040
I'm not Megor, don't compare me.
Your son is not Megor. 

2686
02:07:32,080 --> 02:07:34,760
Don't be like her in that. 
I was like, OK, maybe that's the

2687
02:07:34,760 --> 02:07:39,000
only valid reason Jace has to 
balk at the Vicenia comparison. 

2688
02:07:39,400 --> 02:07:40,680
It's like if you're Vicenia, 
then I'm. 

2689
02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:44,800
So I think he didn't want to say
it. 

2690
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:48,560
I think he didn't want to like 
attack her idol or accuse her 

2691
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:50,840
being tyrannical or whatever 
else. 

2692
02:07:50,840 --> 02:07:53,040
You know, I think he's like, it 
was a long time ago. 

2693
02:07:53,040 --> 02:07:54,920
Let's not get into this. 
Yet, and this is the minute he's

2694
02:07:54,920 --> 02:07:58,120
expecting to get chewed out for 
going off by himself too. 

2695
02:07:58,120 --> 02:08:00,360
So he's also already, like, 
expecting to be punished or 

2696
02:08:00,360 --> 02:08:03,280
yelled at or. 
Yeah, he's he's he's he did the 

2697
02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:05,720
thing where you ask forgiveness 
later. 

2698
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:09,200
And this is him doing that. 
He's like, ask permission later.

2699
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:10,520
Do you know, act first? 
Yeah. 

2700
02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:12,160
So anyway, so this is part of 
her frustration. 

2701
02:08:12,160 --> 02:08:15,960
She lashes out with that answer.
But regarding Vicinia, in part 

2702
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:19,720
because as she explains to him, 
she's like, look, even you are 

2703
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:21,880
out here doing things for us and
you did a great job. 

2704
02:08:21,880 --> 02:08:25,200
But like, I, I need to be 
active. 

2705
02:08:25,200 --> 02:08:26,960
I can't be sitting here doing 
nothing. 

2706
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:31,120
I need to fight for my claim. 
And frankly, with our situation,

2707
02:08:31,120 --> 02:08:34,960
visa visa Dragons, especially 
with Damon doing his own thing, 

2708
02:08:35,720 --> 02:08:38,920
how can we sideline me? 
We can't afford to sideline one 

2709
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:44,280
of three Dragons when Jace's 
dragon is smaller, Bale's dragon

2710
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:46,880
is smaller. 
She's got the only like medium 

2711
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:49,160
sized dragon of the three of 
them and and Damon's is even 

2712
02:08:49,160 --> 02:08:50,920
larger. 
But again, he's not like 

2713
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:54,240
cooperating. 
So she's like, y'all, I'm going 

2714
02:08:54,240 --> 02:08:56,280
to have to fight, like we're 
going to have to put take that 

2715
02:08:56,280 --> 02:09:00,480
risk until the conversation 
takes a little turn here and it 

2716
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:04,120
gets pretty interesting. 
It's like, well, you know, 

2717
02:09:04,120 --> 02:09:06,880
there's other options, Jason. 
While talking about the problem,

2718
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:08,840
they they really hone in on 
Veigar. 

2719
02:09:08,840 --> 02:09:10,400
Like, OK, well, it's Veigar is 
the problem. 

2720
02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:13,000
Everyone's complaining about 
being afraid of Veigar. 

2721
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:17,040
And I get it, you know, that's 
Veigar is the problem. 

2722
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:21,280
If we could take care of her, 
our options open wide open. 

2723
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:25,960
Well, our options get wide open.
Yeah, so Jason says, well, maybe

2724
02:09:25,960 --> 02:09:28,560
we could get Damon to take on 
Ayman, you know, and Rainier's 

2725
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:31,200
like, like, I'm not talking 
about Damon right now. 

2726
02:09:31,200 --> 02:09:32,640
You can't. 
Get Damon to do anything. 

2727
02:09:32,640 --> 02:09:34,440
You can't do anything. 
Make him part of your plan. 

2728
02:09:34,440 --> 02:09:37,160
She's like that would be nice 
if, you know, they just do that 

2729
02:09:37,160 --> 02:09:41,160
to each other, but like that's 
not a thing right now, if ever. 

2730
02:09:41,160 --> 02:09:44,000
So Jace, she's like, OK, moves 
on, mentions Rayna. 

2731
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:45,560
She's like, well, Rayna can take
a dragon, right. 

2732
02:09:45,560 --> 02:09:47,320
And we're reminded that that has
trust. 

2733
02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:50,000
She has tried to mount either 
Silver Wing or Vermuthor and I 

2734
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:51,720
think this was actually 
mentioned in season one. 

2735
02:09:52,920 --> 02:09:54,680
It seemed familiar when they 
mentioned it was like, Oh yeah, 

2736
02:09:54,680 --> 02:09:57,000
I think they actually said that 
before and I think I just forgot

2737
02:09:57,000 --> 02:09:59,160
about it, so correct me if I'm 
wrong, but I think that was this

2738
02:09:59,160 --> 02:10:01,280
is the second time that's 
mentioned, which is a good 

2739
02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:02,720
mention. 
It's like, why didn't she try to

2740
02:10:02,720 --> 02:10:05,120
mount one of those other big ass
Dragons? 

2741
02:10:05,320 --> 02:10:09,560
Well, I guess she did. 
Now, Jace, as has been shown 

2742
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:13,000
before, he knows he's a bastard.
He doesn't necessarily talk 

2743
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:14,760
about it. 
But when when Baylor brought up 

2744
02:10:14,760 --> 02:10:16,440
like what about Sir Harwin 
Strong? 

2745
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:18,160
He's like, yeah, he loved us. 
He's like, of course she did 

2746
02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:19,040
because they were talking to 
him. 

2747
02:10:19,400 --> 02:10:20,920
They were talking about him as 
if he was the father without 

2748
02:10:20,920 --> 02:10:22,760
calling him the father. 
They know he knows. 

2749
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:26,240
He knows she knows. 
So he knows he's a bastard and 

2750
02:10:26,240 --> 02:10:29,320
downplays the Valyrian history. 
He's like, yeah, the Valyrians 

2751
02:10:29,320 --> 02:10:32,560
said that only Valyrians can 
ride Dragons, but look at me 

2752
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:35,400
y'all like I'm only half 
Valyrian and I got a dragon. 

2753
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:38,520
How far does this go? 
How far can we push this? 

2754
02:10:39,200 --> 02:10:42,320
How much dragon blood do you 
actually need, if any? 

2755
02:10:42,960 --> 02:10:45,800
Now, do the Targaryens really 
want everyone to know the answer

2756
02:10:45,800 --> 02:10:49,160
to that question? 
That's kind of why that's part 

2757
02:10:49,160 --> 02:10:50,880
of her hesitation. 
I think she's like, this is a 

2758
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:53,000
mad thought, right? 
That's what she says. 

2759
02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:56,240
But then they're like, there 
could be scores, and they look 

2760
02:10:56,240 --> 02:10:58,320
at the books and the scrolls, 
like there could be a lot of 

2761
02:10:58,320 --> 02:11:00,560
candidates here. 
Maybe some of them are decent 

2762
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:02,360
individuals that we could maybe 
trust. 

2763
02:11:02,960 --> 02:11:05,080
Whether that's true or not, 
whether you can actually trust 

2764
02:11:05,080 --> 02:11:08,680
someone after you give them a 
dragon, the power goes to their 

2765
02:11:08,680 --> 02:11:11,160
head. 
Who knows? 

2766
02:11:11,160 --> 02:11:14,400
You're just like strapping and 
giving some random dude a nuke 

2767
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:16,680
or some random woman a nuke. 
What's going to happen? 

2768
02:11:17,120 --> 02:11:19,000
But again, they're undo anything
to win mode. 

2769
02:11:19,080 --> 02:11:22,920
They're in win or die mode. 
So it's like, would they bring 

2770
02:11:22,920 --> 02:11:24,280
this up if it wasn't going to 
happen? 

2771
02:11:24,280 --> 02:11:26,360
There would be such a thing to 
tease and not do, right? 

2772
02:11:26,920 --> 02:11:31,840
Right, Sean. 
So my prediction here, this is 

2773
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:36,720
my what I'm wondering what I'm 
piercing together because they 

2774
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:41,680
have also presented us this old 
character who's claiming to have

2775
02:11:41,680 --> 02:11:44,360
Targaryen blood. 
And they really seem to be 

2776
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:48,480
focusing on this Hue character 
who has blonde hair and wears it

2777
02:11:48,480 --> 02:11:52,840
just like Eamon and Damon does. 
I wonder if these characters are

2778
02:11:52,840 --> 02:11:55,360
potential dragon riders. 
I wonder if they're going to get

2779
02:11:55,360 --> 02:11:57,280
dug up. 
Their lineage is going to get 

2780
02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:00,080
dug up. 
They Hugh has motivation, right,

2781
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:02,880
to be angry with the greens. 
He's trapped in town. 

2782
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:05,480
He feels like he's got no hope. 
He hasn't been paid for his job.

2783
02:12:07,280 --> 02:12:10,880
So that that's where that's what
I started to piece together to 

2784
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:13,600
wonder about if that's a 
direction they're going to go is

2785
02:12:13,600 --> 02:12:17,240
to Hugh and Olf. 
I can't think of another 

2786
02:12:17,240 --> 02:12:19,440
candidate right now. 
Maybe they'll introduce all new 

2787
02:12:19,480 --> 02:12:21,440
characters. 
But though you know, it seems 

2788
02:12:21,440 --> 02:12:23,880
like they're looking for 
candidates to be dragon riders 

2789
02:12:23,880 --> 02:12:26,200
and to show his presented as 
some candidates to be dragon. 

2790
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:28,280
Riders, there's probably more 
than that too, right? 

2791
02:12:28,280 --> 02:12:29,280
Yeah, like you said, there could
be. 

2792
02:12:29,280 --> 02:12:32,320
Jay says there could be scores 
and scores and Rainier's like 

2793
02:12:32,320 --> 02:12:35,560
it's a mad thought, like I said.
And then Jay says it's better 

2794
02:12:35,560 --> 02:12:38,640
than defeat and death, which 
again, that just goes to show 

2795
02:12:39,120 --> 02:12:41,760
anything goes because that's the
alternative. 

2796
02:12:41,760 --> 02:12:44,360
It's like they'll even these 
kind of good guys like Jason 

2797
02:12:44,360 --> 02:12:49,400
Rainier come off as better 
people, more ethical than a lot 

2798
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:51,760
of the people involved in this 
war so far. 

2799
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:57,120
And even there like, yeah, we, 
we, we got to just leverage and 

2800
02:12:57,120 --> 02:13:00,400
mortgage other aspects of our 
existence to get through this. 

2801
02:13:00,400 --> 02:13:04,400
You know, we got to we got to 
widen our ethical concerns and 

2802
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:07,600
just take more risks and see 
what happens. 

2803
02:13:07,600 --> 02:13:11,600
I will say, though, I'm still 
concerned and suspicious. 

2804
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:17,240
Let's say you find someone else 
who can ride a dragon and they 

2805
02:13:17,240 --> 02:13:21,240
are, I don't know, like their 
bloodline is still close enough 

2806
02:13:21,240 --> 02:13:25,400
to some noble house and they're 
an honorable person who says 

2807
02:13:25,400 --> 02:13:29,080
you're going to be good at it. 
Rainey's is maybe the most 

2808
02:13:29,080 --> 02:13:34,600
experienced dragon slash dragon 
writer there is, and she came 

2809
02:13:34,600 --> 02:13:37,960
close. 
She took Vegar to the ground but

2810
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:42,120
still could not finish the job. 
So even if you get a dragon 

2811
02:13:42,120 --> 02:13:46,400
that's on par with size of Vegar
and someone who can write it, 

2812
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:50,240
that's different from 
successfully defeating Vegar. 

2813
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:53,080
You know, you're totally right. 
Yeah. 

2814
02:13:53,080 --> 02:13:54,400
So it's super interesting, isn't
it? 

2815
02:13:54,400 --> 02:13:55,640
And these are. 
And like they say, these are 

2816
02:13:55,640 --> 02:13:57,560
bigger Dragons than the ones 
they already have. 

2817
02:13:57,560 --> 02:14:00,560
So you're if it's the whole 
power goes to someone's head or 

2818
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:04,520
if military might angle or both.
Yeah, like they're empowering 

2819
02:14:04,520 --> 02:14:07,320
someone to be stronger than they
are potentially in a way not, 

2820
02:14:07,320 --> 02:14:11,960
not with a stronger claim or a 
stronger, like, you know, their 

2821
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:14,400
place in the hierarchy or 
whatever, but just like more 

2822
02:14:14,520 --> 02:14:16,720
physically and martially 
powerful. 

2823
02:14:17,280 --> 02:14:20,400
Like Eamon has moved into a more
powerful position for a number 

2824
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:22,760
of reasons, but a larger one is 
because of Agar. 

2825
02:14:22,760 --> 02:14:24,480
He's larger. 
One is the large dragon, Yeah. 

2826
02:14:25,720 --> 02:14:28,920
And he seems mostly to be able 
to control Veigar. 

2827
02:14:28,920 --> 02:14:31,600
But it seemed like Veigar was a 
little out of his hands when he 

2828
02:14:31,600 --> 02:14:34,480
killed Luke, right? 
And so these new dragon riders, 

2829
02:14:34,480 --> 02:14:39,000
again, even if they're good at 
riding the dragon, it still 

2830
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:41,960
doesn't mean they're going to 
completely control the dragon. 

2831
02:14:42,040 --> 02:14:44,080
That's it. 
And they haven't been in these 

2832
02:14:44,080 --> 02:14:46,120
situations. 
They're like, well, I don't like

2833
02:14:46,120 --> 02:14:49,600
well, surely I all the other 
times Veigar fought a dragon her

2834
02:14:49,600 --> 02:14:53,040
size, it it went like this, you 
know, And so I know exactly what

2835
02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:54,640
to expect. 
No, no one knows. 

2836
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:58,160
Like even the Targaryens who 
have passed don't know. 

2837
02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:02,280
None of them have seen like two 
really big Dragons fight each 

2838
02:15:02,320 --> 02:15:04,040
other. 
This is the closest they've got 

2839
02:15:04,040 --> 02:15:06,960
was Veigar verse Meilies, and 
that was devastating and insane.

2840
02:15:07,360 --> 02:15:10,760
And we're talking about 
Silverwing and Vermothor are 

2841
02:15:10,760 --> 02:15:12,960
apparently even bigger than 
that. 

2842
02:15:13,400 --> 02:15:15,440
Vermothor definitely is. 
We haven't seen Silverwing yet, 

2843
02:15:15,440 --> 02:15:17,360
but Vermothor is the second 
biggest dragon in the realm. 

2844
02:15:17,720 --> 02:15:19,920
I think Silverwing might be 
third, but it's whatever. 

2845
02:15:19,920 --> 02:15:22,720
She's really big, you know, and 
we'll see what they do with 

2846
02:15:22,720 --> 02:15:24,680
that. 
So very exciting. 

2847
02:15:25,880 --> 02:15:29,680
One little hope I have is it if 
the Blacks do do this and 

2848
02:15:29,680 --> 02:15:33,360
realize they can get more dragon
riders, then maybe the Greens 

2849
02:15:33,360 --> 02:15:37,040
will also and they might track 
down that Kristen Cole has 

2850
02:15:37,040 --> 02:15:38,880
Targaryen blood. 
And he gets. 

2851
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:41,760
To have sex with 2 Queens, 
Laura, Commander, Hannah the 

2852
02:15:41,760 --> 02:15:45,040
King and Dragon Rider. 
That's more titles than Danny or

2853
02:15:45,040 --> 02:15:47,000
John. 
I mean, damn, that's right. 

2854
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:51,920
The truest song of ice and fire.
The true the true is Zora highs.

2855
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:55,720
Kristen Cole, You heard it here 
first, y'all, y'all, That's 

2856
02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:59,000
right. 
And I think that does it for 

2857
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:00,560
today, folks. 
Any final thoughts? 

2858
02:16:00,560 --> 02:16:03,280
We I liked your your theory 
there, Sean. 

2859
02:16:03,720 --> 02:16:08,720
We'll see how it goes and we 
hope to see a lot of y'all for 

2860
02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:11,840
Wednesday will be it'll be a 
spoilery episode with Jason 

2861
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,480
Concepcion. 
Right now we're planning on 

2862
02:16:14,480 --> 02:16:17,200
doing AQ and A, so get your 
questions ready. 

2863
02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:20,200
It's a good thing to do in the 
middle of the season. 

2864
02:16:20,200 --> 02:16:24,320
I think the halfway point is ish
is the appropriate time for 

2865
02:16:25,320 --> 02:16:28,480
getting things clarified and 
getting ourselves situated for 

2866
02:16:28,480 --> 02:16:32,240
the next several episodes, which
will be a big movers in the 

2867
02:16:32,240 --> 02:16:35,160
story I think. 
But we'll have to wait and see. 

2868
02:16:35,799 --> 02:16:39,440
So thanks to Sean and Ashea and 
thanks as well to Bran the 

2869
02:16:39,440 --> 02:16:44,320
Builder for our awesome intro. 
We love our cool Targaryen fire 

2870
02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:47,520
and blood intro so very much. 
Thanks as well to Michael 

2871
02:16:47,520 --> 02:16:52,760
Clarfel for the maps. 
That's Clara docs.de KLARADO 

2872
02:16:52,760 --> 02:16:55,520
x.de. 
You can get copies of those maps

2873
02:16:55,520 --> 02:16:57,280
yourself. 
They don't have to look as big 

2874
02:16:57,280 --> 02:16:58,680
as this. 
They can be smaller, they can be

2875
02:16:58,680 --> 02:17:00,200
bigger. 
You can get them printed in a 

2876
02:17:00,200 --> 02:17:02,400
variety of ways. 
All you do is pay for the file 

2877
02:17:02,400 --> 02:17:05,719
and then you can do whatever you
want with it like we have. 

2878
02:17:06,600 --> 02:17:11,920
And until next time you know 
what to do, Valar Rereadus. 

2879
02:17:16,639 --> 02:18:12,400
None. 
None.