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The world of George R Martin, 
called Earth generically in the 

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text Planetos Terros, or Martin 
World by US fans, is nowhere 

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near fully explored, as far as 
we know. 

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From the perspective of the 
people of Westeros, though, 

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that's absolutely true. 
It isn't even close, and it's 

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pretty much the same for us 
readers. 

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The map ends and we don't know 
what's beyond it, and there's 

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things on the map that aren't 
fully explored. 

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Who knows what's out there? 
What did the ancients explore 

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long ago? 
What have they learned? 

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What have that knowledge has 
been lost, maybe rediscovered 

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after all? 
People such as the Ghiscari, the

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Valyrians, the Ebenez summer 
Islanders, have been sailing the

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world as long or longer than 
most anyone else, and some of 

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them have really good ships and 
sailors, especially the summer 

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Islanders. 
What they know, the maesters of 

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Westeros often do not. 
But there have been attempts to 

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expand that knowledge, and 
often, as it is in our own 

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world, a singular personality 
sometimes advances the 

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boundaries of what's known by 
leaps and bounds, or rather 

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strides within a single 
lifetime. 

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When we think of explorers, we 
think of the Sea Snake and 

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Alyssa Farman, who had an urge 
to discover, or Nymeria and her 

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Roinish followers who were 
basically refugees who were 

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forced into seeking new lands. 
The refugees aside, Nymeria 

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included, though these are 
nobles, and a lot of the 

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refugees got left behind because
they didn't have enough money to

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flee. 
So that's a big difference. 

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These are noble people with 
money compared to Loma's 

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launched rider, who was a 
scribe, right? 

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That's he didn't have 
necessarily his a crew, a ship, 

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much funding, all the safety and
security that comes with that. 

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It seems like he lacked it, but 
yet he explored farther and 

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wider than any of the above 
individuals. 

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Again, as far as we know, he was
a scribe, not a Lord. 

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That's really cool. 
More interesting than the 

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character though of Lomas are 
the places he went or may have 

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visited. 
We're not sure in some cases, 

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which is part of the fun here. 
He wrote two books based on his 

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travels, wonders and wonders 
made by man. 

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Tyrion owned them both and read 
them over and over until they 

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fell apart. 
A lot of us can relate to that, 

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reading a book so many times 
that it's fallen apart. 

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In this episode, we'll cover the
latter of the two books because 

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covering it all is too much for 
one episode. 

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The tale grew in the telling. 
We sort of planned it to be one,

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but you know, as many times it's
happened in the history of our 

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show, that was not enough. 
So we broke it into two and we 

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have thoughts for a third one. 
That's goes beyond even Lomas 

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strides, which is a big point 
here. 

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We're going to cover the latter 
of those two books, but we also 

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expect our collective 
imagination to take us as far as

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Lomas long striders, long 
strides. 

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All that and more on this 
episode of History of Westeros 

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podcast. 
How's it going, Sean? 

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You look like you have something
ready. 

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You're ready to say something 
here. 

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Here is an exciting topic, isn't
it? 

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This episode is one of the 
wonders of the history of 

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Westeros. 
Podcast. 

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It would be nice. 
I like it. 

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Yes. 
Welcome everybody. 

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We do have live streams almost 
every Monday at 3:00 PM. 

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Unless it's TV season, keep that
in mind. 

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You can catch these episodes on 
YouTube in an unedited form, or 

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you can go to Spotify and catch 
the edited video, or to any 

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podcast platform and catch the 
edited, non visual version. 

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This episode does contain a lot 
of images though, a lot of 

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visuals. 
You can still enjoy it without 

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those. 
They're useful, often beautiful,

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you know, sparking the 
imagination. 

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Sometimes they're stunning or 
epic, but they're not required. 

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Feel free to just keep listening
if you that's what you usually 

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do. 
But this is a good time to 

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remind folks that on Spotify you
can switch to video mode on any 

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podcast that has a video feed, 
which ours do. 

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These days, every episode we put
out has a video feed. 

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Older ones, not all of them do, 
but since you know early mid 

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23/20/23, that is. 
Every episode we make comes out 

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in video. 
Though not all of them have 

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extensive images like this one, 
so keep that in mind. 

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Good time to remind you all 
that. 

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We also got a lot of help as we 
so often do from our good friend

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Nina. 
You can check her out at good 

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queenalley.tumblr.com. 
The latest blog post over there 

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is a testimonial to Stephen 
Atwell. 

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I mentioned his passing last 
week. 

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We're still feeling it. 
We will be for a long time. 

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But she also, in addition to 
providing her personal thoughts 

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on it, provides a lot of links 
and places you can read Stevens 

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works which are more relevant 
than ever now and a lot of you 

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probably or maybe never checked 
out his writings and only heard 

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the podcasts. 
Well, this is a good time to do 

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that. 
Check him out and let's make 

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sure his his memory lives on, 
which I'm very confident it will

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because he was so good at what 
he did. 

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And if you have questions for 
us, this is a big, wide open 

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topic. 
So very important for me to set 

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the stage with that Westeros 
history@gmail.com or if you're 

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watching live, send your 
questions in the chat and 

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there's a decent chance we'll 
bring that up, get you a shout 

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out or something like that at 
the end of this episode. 

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There's a lot of other episodes 
I'll bring up because we're 

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touching on so many things in 
this one. 

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And well, that's always fun. 
So trivia question to get 

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started. 
That's also going to be at the 

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end of the episode. 
The answer to this, we know 

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seven of the 9 wonders made by 
man, according to Lomas, that's 

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his book, Wonders made by Man, 
right? 

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And there's nine wonders in it, 
but we don't know two of them. 

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So of the seven, we know one of 
them has been destroyed since he

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wrote the book. 
Six of the seven are still 

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standing, one is not. 
Which one has been destroyed? 

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That is the trivia question. 
This was the first document I 

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started when the World of Ice 
and Fire came out. 

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And The World of Ice and Fire 
came out in 2014. 

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That's right. 
This document has been in our 

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Google Drive for a decade, A 
decade. 

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Nina added notes back then, and 
she's added notes, you know, in 

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this past week, just to give you
an idea of how long we've been 

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messing with this one. 
And that's partly why it grew to

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be more than the original plan. 
But let's get right into it with

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a quote that really describes 
quite well what we're in for 

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today. 
Real quick for the quote I want 

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to add. 
That's part of why this is a 

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wonder. 
True that. 

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True that. 
Lomas Longstrider Ask duck. 

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A scribe long dead, said Halden.
He spent his life travelling the

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world and writing about the 
lands he visited in two books he

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called Wonders and Wonders Made 
by Man. 

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An echo of mine gave them to me 
when I was just a boy, said 

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Tyrion. 
I read them until they fell to 

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pieces. 
The gods made seven wonders, and

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mortal man made nine quoted the 
half maister. 

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Rather impious of mortal man to 
do the gods to better, but there

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you are. 
That's all the elements right 

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there. 
The basic elements, who he was, 

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his influence on Tyrion and 
others. 

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And well, you don't have all the
list of the wonders, though 

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Tyrion claims to have memorized 
them. 

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I kind of wish he had listed 
them there, but that's the 

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discussion. 
And guessing is a big part of 

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the fun. 
We kind of doubt there's wonders

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of the world we haven't been 
told about. 

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Like there's there might be some
wonders out there that have just

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never been mentioned. 
The problem is, which ones have 

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been designated? 
Most people in Westeros would 

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not have heard of Lomas Long 
Strider. 

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So it's not like they're like, 
oh, this is the one Lomas Long 

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Strider wrote about. 
No, most people haven't read 

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that book. 
Most of Westeros isn't literate.

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Most of them don't read 
travelogues, explorer books. 

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Tyrion and Halden are a little 
more unique. 

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A lot of maesters would have, 
but outside of that, you just 

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don't expect most people to have
read it. 

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So yeah, that's a that's a big 
deal, but but still. 

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That said, there might even be 
something out there that we 

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haven't heard of. 
Probably not a man made wonder. 

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That might be something more for
the natural ones, because you 

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never know what deep, dark 
places of the world have never 

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been discovered, but among 
things that have been built, 

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probably have a handle on 
everything that's at least in 

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the conversation. 
But even that's not a sure 

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thing. 
I suspect that there might be 

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some others. 
I I'm not. 

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I don't have any confidence. 
But just comparing it to the 

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modern world, Pliny and I think 
there was another guy before him

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that was writing about the the 
idea of these seven wonders. 

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One, they were kind of 
Mediterranean centric. 

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Yes, there's no nothing in 
China. 

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Yeah, exactly right. 
They didn't know about the Great

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Wall of China or Stonehenge, or 
to whatever extent they might 

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have known they didn't want to. 
They remember they're trying to 

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prop up their own world, their 
own culture and everything. 

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So they weren't aware of or 
didn't want to give credit to 

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some foreign ones. 
And the same might be Loma seems

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to be going beyond that, right? 
That seems to almost be the 

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point of what he's doing. 
But I still think that he might 

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have done more than what the 
rest of our mostly Westerosi 

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perspective would be aware of, 
right? 

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Even other educated people, if 
they didn't read his books, 

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might not have heard of some of 
the things he would might name 

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so. 
Good point, Good point. 

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So even though we don't have his
lists, we can narrow it down 

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pretty well. 
But there's also some places 

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that we'll bring up here and 
there and perhaps discuss in 

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another episode with greater 
detail, places that maybe are 

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wondrous that we know for sure 
he didn't ever see, like 

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Bloodraven's Cave, The Greens 
Here Cave, whatever you want to 

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call that. 
It's pretty wondrous, it's 

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pretty epic and incredible. 
But Lomas was never in that 

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cave, so it's not really a 
candidate for his wonders. 

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So we'll have a a things like 
that in this episode as well. 

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Also, I want to point out 
something. 

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It's neat to consider that there
were seven, and in reference to 

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half, master half. 
Maister's quote there about 

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saying it was rather impious of 
the mortal man to do the gods do

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better, and you wonder if that 
was part of why he chose 7 

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because you know he's Westerosi.
The Seven are a thing. 

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You know this is #7 is kind of 
sacred to Westerosi and also of 

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course it matches the seven 
ancient wonders of the real 

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world. 
But that might have just been a 

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nice convenient well, everything
fits for for George when he was 

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creating that. 
Now who was Lomas Longstride, 

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let's start with the character 
and then we'll move into his 

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travels and then the specific 
wonders. 

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That's basically our road map 
for today. 

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We only have one other person 
named Lomas so a sample size of 

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one for comparison, he was his 
name is Lomas Estermont. 

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He's in the storm lands, so I 
don't know. 

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That probably isn't an 
indication that Lomas Lontrider 

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was a Storm Lander, but you 
know, whatever, that's, that's 

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what we have on Lomas Estremont.
If you had to bet, if you had to

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guess, that would be your best. 
One, yeah, it wouldn't be a high

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confidence guess, but it's yeah,
if you forced to guess you would

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just gun to your head you'd be 
like storm lands. 

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By the way, Lomas Estremont's 
son Andrew Estremont is the one 

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keep in charge of keeping watch 
over Edrick Storm right now and 

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lease. 
So there's also an arch Maester,

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Phomas, not less, you know, kind
of like Lomas, you know, Phomas,

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Nina jokes. 
This guy is the faux Lomas 

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because this guy is is the one 
that supposes the others were 

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just humans that the Starks 
exaggerated to make themselves 

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seem tougher. 
You know, we're like, well, that

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guy's wrong. 
We've we've seen the others in 

226
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,680
in the prologue, like, we got 
that out of the way quickly. 

227
00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:58,960
So yeah, we're shut up, Thomas. 
Anyway, it's unlikely that Lomas

228
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:05,040
was from or grew up in an overly
rural or remote area because he 

229
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,600
was literate, right? 
That's just kind of suggests a 

230
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,560
little something about education
probably wasn't born into 

231
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,120
poverty. 
That can't be assumed either, 

232
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,760
though. 
You know, people rise from from 

233
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,080
very little. 
He could have been one of those 

234
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,080
types. 
He's certainly an impressive 

235
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:19,800
person, so you can't put that 
past him. 

236
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,040
This is a strong case to be 
made. 

237
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,040
He was born in Old Town or lived
there because it's a center of 

238
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,160
knowledge. 
It's, it's how you might expect 

239
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,720
to learn about all these wonders
in the 1st place. 

240
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,680
Like where the place that would 
spark your imagination. 

241
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,880
You know, you could just be 
sitting there and be like, you 

242
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:35,800
know, the world must be full of 
wonders and that would be 

243
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,480
enough. 
But if you read some books and 

244
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,200
we know this guy could read, 
that might just really spark 

245
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,360
your imagination. 
Like Tyrion, Tyrion read this 

246
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,840
specific book and it sparked his
imagination to go see some of 

247
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,080
these places. 
So there you go. 

248
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,320
I mean it's it's it's very 
human, very, very natural, very,

249
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,000
very. 
And Old Town also would have 

250
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,480
been more cosmopolitan. 
He might have heard stories. 

251
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,000
That's true, right? 
Travellers from all around. 

252
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,720
And I think there's another 
argument for him being from Old 

253
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,320
Town. 
Now there's some, there's some 

254
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,400
holes in this argument, but 
again, you know, making some 

255
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,280
best guesses. 
He didn't name the Hightower, 

256
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,800
which I think is a worthy 
wonder, and I think it's a 

257
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,280
strong parallel to the 
Lighthouse of Alexandria, and he

258
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,960
may have named it. 
He didn't specifically say it 

259
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,040
wasn't. 
It might be one of the two that 

260
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,680
we don't know. 
But if it's not one of the two 

261
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,800
that we don't know, then I think
it makes sense that he might be 

262
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,840
from there because he might not 
think of it as a wonder because 

263
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,080
it was just part of his daily 
life. 

264
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,200
He wasn't that impressed by this
thing that he sees every day. 

265
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,080
Like if you live in New York 
City, the Empire State Building 

266
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,680
might not seem as impressive, 
but if you're from Greensboro, 

267
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,040
NC, and you go to New York City,
you'll be blown out of the 

268
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,440
water. 
So he might have thought of it 

269
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,880
as to typical of his daily life 
and and maybe even saw the 

270
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,440
utility in it and not just the 
grandeur and impressiveness of 

271
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,120
it which a lot of times wonders 
typically wonders don't have 

272
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,360
specific utilization right? 
The monuments and statues and 

273
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,240
impressive works of engineering 
and such, but don't necessarily 

274
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,200
have a specific use which the 
old the Hightower does, which 

275
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,200
again might have kept him from 
considering it as such so. 

276
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:16,280
I agree. 
And that's. 

277
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,480
Not have been as standard as you
travelled the world too. 

278
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,280
Is this better than the 
Hightower? 

279
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,720
Or that might have been what 
gave him appreciation for, you 

280
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,680
know, it's like, wow, I have 
gone all over the world and I 

281
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,240
have not seen anything as tall 
or impressive as high or or that

282
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,600
very little that's close. 
Yeah, it might have been like 

283
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,880
returning after all his travels 
that made him appreciate it 

284
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,600
more. 
But either way, it's a good 

285
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,840
point and I like the idea of of 
it. 

286
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,800
You know, something you grew up 
in the shadow of doesn't seem 

287
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,520
quite as impressive. 
Another place he could have 

288
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,360
grown up is like High Garden. 
You know this other place that 

289
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,360
has a lot of books, you know, a 
lot of access to, to, to 

290
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,280
materials, because I'm wondering
about this a little bit because,

291
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,240
yeah, scribe, that makes a lot 
of sense for Old Town, but a lot

292
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,120
of books are only for like 
maesters and septons and of 

293
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,320
course nobles. 
So you wonder like a scribe 

294
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,600
might be. 
One of the few exceptions to 

295
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,760
some of that is access to to the
the written word and places that

296
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,920
might keep that under wraps. 
You know, because most people 

297
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,360
don't know how to handle a book.
You know, it's like don't let 

298
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,480
the regular folk touch a book. 
Like, you know they'll just tear

299
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,120
it or get grease on it or 
something. 

300
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,240
They don't know how to properly 
respect the book. 

301
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:21,160
Do you respect books so that a 
lot of things that make sense 

302
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,920
for I think him reading books is
what got him started and he 

303
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,800
probably also already had the 
itch to travel and wander the 

304
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,520
wanderlust or what have you. 
The quote from Haldon and Tyrion

305
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,320
said he was a long dead scribe 
who wrote 2 famous books. 

306
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,080
But how long ago? 
Scribe seems kind of to 

307
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,680
undersell it a bit though, 
right? 

308
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,600
Like this guy travelled vast 
distances across the world, 

309
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,520
isn't he? 
Isn't scribe kind of secondary? 

310
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,720
It's like this guy was a world 
explorer and a scribe, you know?

311
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,240
I think that's the part that 
comes next. 

312
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,600
But that is really important. 
The scribe is what is huge. 

313
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:55,920
The sea Snake didn't write a 
book. 

314
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,280
You know, Alyssa Farman didn't 
write a book. 

315
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,880
We those people are 
inspirations. 

316
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,480
They're amazing, but they didn't
pass their knowledge down, even 

317
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,480
as 10th as well as Lomas LON 
Strider did. 

318
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:07,880
So that's that's still 
important. 

319
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,040
The scribe part still important.
Secondary, but still very 

320
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,320
important. 
It's like saying Neil Armstrong 

321
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,200
worked for the government. 
Technically true, but yeah, it 

322
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,840
really buries the point. 
You're right, A. 

323
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,160
Little bit more than that 
though. 

324
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,640
Yeah, like he, Lomas wasn't 
risking his life scribing, but 

325
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,880
the going around the world. 
Like, like Neil Armstrong, he 

326
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,080
risked his life. 
Yeah, but not for work. 

327
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,600
Not because he worked for the 
government specifically. 

328
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,640
Like, Lomas could have had some 
money, you know, he had to have 

329
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,320
some or he wouldn't have been 
able to travel. 

330
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,240
But being referred to as a 
scribe doesn't exactly imply 

331
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,960
significant. 
Well, so maybe he was like a 

332
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,840
middle class job, middle class 
guy. 

333
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,160
That might be the way to think 
of him. 

334
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,520
Certainly not the kind of guy 
that made the kind of money you 

335
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,480
could retire early on. 
But you know, the guy that had 

336
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,840
to make his way in the world and
and did so probably better than 

337
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,480
any scribe I've ever heard of. 
But we also don't know the whole

338
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,800
story. 
Like Halden said, some things 

339
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,480
about him and they know what 
they know about Lomas from his 

340
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,640
writings and they may not know 
actually a whole lot about the 

341
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,079
person, you know? 
I mean, we know a lot about 

342
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,560
George R Martin, right? 
But you could name a lot of 

343
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,839
authors out there which their 
writings are really well known, 

344
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:15,200
but the person not so much. 
Lomas is kind of in that 

345
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,359
category print. 
Most of what we know about him 

346
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,440
is is kind of an assumption. 
Educated guesses really for a 

347
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,079
lot of them. 
And you know, his job of Scribe,

348
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,560
that's what does that even mean?
Like you have to work for an 

349
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,440
organization that employs 
scribes? 

350
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,240
I mean that's that's that's more
of a career than a specific job,

351
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,800
I guess. 
But people like Howden. 

352
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,880
Could be a freelance scribe. 
It could be like Scribe for 

353
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,320
hire. 
People like Howden might sort of

354
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,880
associate with him in a sense 
because he's the half master, 

355
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,680
you know, it's he's got sort of 
comes from that academic 

356
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,680
background, but he's also 
travelled around a lot. 

357
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,960
He's not just a guy that's SAT 
in a tower and and with books 

358
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,160
and and scrolls and never seen 
the world. 

359
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,640
This guy, this is someone who 
really went out and saw the 

360
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,160
world. 
And Howden's kind of like that 

361
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,120
too. 
And there are a lot of people 

362
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,200
who go to study at the Citadel 
without becoming maesters. 

363
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,280
You know, we hear that about 
nobles like Oberon and his 

364
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,800
daughter Sorella. 
Maybe that's what Lomas was. 

365
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,640
Someone that went there to study
but without the intent of 

366
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,960
becoming a maester, had some 
other things. 

367
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,160
Marwin's another good example. 
An arch maester. 

368
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,320
Absolutely. 
Guy willing to go out and travel

369
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,600
at the drop of a hat. 
Like that's literally what we 

370
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,000
saw him do. 
He's like, I'm here. 

371
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,200
I'm here. 
Wait, what's now? 

372
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440
What? 
That Daenerys Dragons. 

373
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,680
I'm hopping on a ship now. 
I'm going to the docks now, 

374
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,800
heading out. 
That sounds like a Lomas type, 

375
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,080
like Marwyn and Lomas would 
have. 

376
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,760
They would at least could have 
swapped stories, right? 

377
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,520
And maybe Lomas had a 
benefactor, someone you know, 

378
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:48,040
like a rich guy, that was 
willing to pay him to go and do 

379
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,240
some of these places, pay his 
passage. 

380
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,280
Now it probably wouldn't have 
been that big of an expense for 

381
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,400
a rich person, given Lomas 
wasn't like traveling with an 

382
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,680
entourage or buying a ship or 
anything like that. 

383
00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:58,360
But he may have had to like 
work. 

384
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,040
He may have had to like be on 
the crew, you know, like pull an

385
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,960
oar or sow some sales or I don't
know what, just do work to get 

386
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,600
by to make his enough money to 
make his next travel, to make 

387
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,160
his next journey. 
And maybe a scribe from Westeros

388
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,160
could Some fancy people might be
interested in that. 

389
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,120
You know, he might have some 
knowledge. 

390
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:21,040
They might want to interview 
him, get some dirt on him and 

391
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,200
hear news from somebody that's 
clearly knowledgeable. 

392
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,840
I don't know, but there'd be a 
lot of and. 

393
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,360
And maybe he did have a a 
companion with him, you know, a 

394
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,760
a swordsman. 
Or maybe he did have a maester 

395
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,840
with him, Some of the new 
languages, you know, something 

396
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:34,400
like that. 
Someone that would help him 

397
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,480
avoid pirates, You know, 
something like that. 

398
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,880
He may, too, like the idea of 
books and scribes and such. 

399
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,360
Now it's you know. 
Now it's even more It's just on 

400
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:44,360
your phone. 
You can just have. 

401
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,800
I can't even think of what to 
say how amazing phones are like.

402
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,000
You could take notes in your 
phone. 

403
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,880
You could have. 
You could have all the knowledge

404
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,800
of the world in your phone, in 
your pocket, even if you go back

405
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,880
50 years, a book and pen and 
paper and keeping it dry. 

406
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,120
It might have taken some 
material and some package for 

407
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,440
him to lug around. 
He might have needed one or two 

408
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,720
assistants to help carry stuff 
and keep notes and keep stuff 

409
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,160
safe and find his way. 
He might have just been doing it

410
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,240
all on his own. 
It's hard to say. 

411
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,960
He might have written everything
after he got back and not as he 

412
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,040
was doing it. 
Maybe he. 

413
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,240
Had a great memory. 
Yeah, yeah, photograph the 

414
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,680
memory. 
I wonder too if he might have 

415
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:28,520
had a person or maybe different 
people over time sending them 

416
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960
out on these missions. 
And especially, I started 

417
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,760
thinking of him as maybe more of
an Indiana Jones type character.

418
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,160
Like Indiana Jones is a 
professor. 

419
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,160
Well yeah, but that's not the 
cool part, right? 

420
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,120
He might have been a scribe and 
had some job and some library. 

421
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,440
But he might have also been 
ambitious and daring and 

422
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,000
intelligent and someone might 
have recognized it and sent him 

423
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,680
out like hey, go check out this 
thing and he comes back with 

424
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,720
awesome stories like well now 
check out this thing. 

425
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,840
You might have been sent out by 
some, like you said, a 

426
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,080
benefactor. 
Yeah. 

427
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,360
I might be stretching a little 
bit more, but I also wonder if 

428
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:05,800
it's possible, If Lomas wasn't 
just one person, if it was a 

429
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,800
group of people, if it was like 
the Dread Pirate Roberts or 

430
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,680
Brandon the Builder, someone 
who's efforts kind of got rolled

431
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,880
up into one person over a couple
generations or something, you 

432
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,640
know? 
It's possible. 

433
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,120
Absolutely possible. 
Can't dismiss the idea. 

434
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,640
It's a, it's a, it's a workable 
theory. 

435
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,000
Obviously, with as little as we 
know about him, we can't really 

436
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,920
go one way or another. 
But it's a fun it's a fun 

437
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,360
possibility, for sure. 
Like think about his name being 

438
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,560
Long Strider, right? 
Is that? 

439
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,800
Did he really call himself that?
Who gave him that name? 

440
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,960
Did he take that name on or that
get a scientist persona? 

441
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,520
Or is it just because his name 
was long Strider is more likely 

442
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,000
to do it just like John Crintest
obviously becomes a dentist so. 

443
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,880
Clearly. 
This is easel site. 

444
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,400
Later we do have at least one 
conflicting report on Lomas in 

445
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,880
fact, which would point to 
something amiss there. 

446
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,440
So yeah. 
Could just be an error, but 

447
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,600
could be an intentional error by
George to show the difficulty of

448
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,360
of of words like this. 
Or it might just be a regular 

449
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,960
error like that. 
You know, the editor's messed 

450
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,320
up. 
But either way, it works. 

451
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,280
It fits the setting. 
Whatever it kind of is, we can 

452
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,480
we can incorporate it into the 
world and make sense of it, 

453
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,320
discuss it as if it was 
intentional. 

454
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,600
Nina had a great take here too, 
comparing Lomas to someone we 

455
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,680
discussed in just a recent 
episode. 

456
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,920
In our Hard Home episode, we 
discussed Maester Willis, who 

457
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,640
traded some of the skills that 
he had learned at the Citadel, 

458
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,160
like healing and counseling for 
protection from one of the 

459
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,120
Hardhome chieftains. 
And he got to do a little 

460
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,480
ethnography about Hardhome and 
its people. 

461
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:41,200
And so the idea that Lomas 
himself would also have skills 

462
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,640
and and ability and yeah. 
I I appreciate that comparison a

463
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,560
lot. 
Lomas Lomas is more about the 

464
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,160
the the wonder like the the 
edifices and the natural wonders

465
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,760
where Willis is more focused on 
people. 

466
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,120
But it's a very similar concept 
of of academic person who really

467
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,080
does field work and focuses, 
gets you know, gets their hands 

468
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,840
dirty and goes, goes out and 
does things rather than just 

469
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,360
writing. 
Not that the writing is 

470
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,640
important, but we we respect the
one of those who do both. 

471
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,760
So he probably had skills well 
beyond just scribe. 

472
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,680
It's kind of the point here, 
like a a summary of of some of 

473
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,400
what we discussed. 
He probably was multi talented, 

474
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,360
had a lot of skills, maybe he 
wasn't a warrior, maybe he 

475
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,880
wasn't a master linguist, but he
definitely got by somehow and it

476
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,560
was very impressive. 
However, he pulled it off. 

477
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,200
He was good with the whip. 
Good with the whip. 

478
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,720
Yeah. 
Indiana Lomas. 

479
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,160
Well, one of the wonders we're 
going to talk about is the 3 

480
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,200
Bells of and Norvos, and one of 
them is Noom. 

481
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,720
So they could be Lomas Long 
Strider and the bell that goes 

482
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,080
Noom. 
Like the Temple of Doom. 

483
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,240
Yeah. 
So this is a man who set out to 

484
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,000
open up the world to many 
Westerosi who had previously 

485
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,000
known so little. 
He wanted to expand knowledge, 

486
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,120
right? 
He wanted to write. 

487
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:50,920
He set out to write this book 
and and let people know and in 

488
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,600
some ways save them, maybe from 
having to make the journey 

489
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,560
themselves because it's really 
hard to do that. 

490
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,960
But also maybe you encourage 
them to make the journey if it's

491
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,080
possible. 
It's a little both. 

492
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
And of course it's not just 
Westeros on some of our he had 

493
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,800
an impact on, of course of 
Tyrion, but a lot of other 

494
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,240
people as well. 
Now, did he set out with to name

495
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,160
7 wonders or just kind of arrive
at that conclusion afterward? 

496
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,200
That's kind of what I was 
getting at when we brought up 

497
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:18,400
the religion aspect. 
Maybe he was trying to do Sevens

498
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,040
because of the Seven Gods, but 
that's kind of a random guess. 

499
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,160
So let's talk about where he 
went. 

500
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,160
Let's do an overview of where he
travelled and then get to the 

501
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,480
actual wonders. 
He went all over Westeros. 

502
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,800
We should be able to assume that
much, though I'm not sure he 

503
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,680
went like beyond the Wall. 
Maybe he did, but that's more of

504
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,200
an assumption. 
And I wouldn't be so sure about 

505
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,800
that now that he went to like 
every single corner, every 

506
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,720
island he may not have gone to 
like the Island of House, Far 

507
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,120
Wind, you know, or Lonely Light,
that is. 

508
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,320
And he certainly didn't go to 
the New Dragon Isles that hadn't

509
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,160
been discovered by Alyssa Farman
yet. 

510
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,000
But Westeros is pretty well 
known by the time of his birth. 

511
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,680
But people been living there for
thousands of years, so there 

512
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,080
wouldn't be a lot of like, 
hidden things. 

513
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,640
He would know where the 
important things are. 

514
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,480
It'd be overseas where he would 
have to, like, read more books 

515
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,040
and and gather knowledge, where 
he would have less idea of 

516
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,840
what's out there. 
So in Westeros, he's more like 

517
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,720
judging what's already there and
and seeing it maybe because it's

518
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,720
closer. 
We don't think he went to 

519
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,560
Sothorios or Olthos, which are 
the 2 southern continents that 

520
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,680
we know of, neither of which we 
know the full extent of. 

521
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,080
And he may have been warned off 
Sothorios before the before he 

522
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,520
even started because of 
travelers who went there before.

523
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,000
After all, we know of Genera 
Belarus, the Valyrian explorer 

524
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,760
who flew her dragon so far 
South, she never even found the 

525
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,120
end of the continent and said it
was not good. 

526
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,680
You know, like it's just disease
and jungle and yeah, just don't 

527
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,640
go there, don't go there. 
So I really doubt Lomas went 

528
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,960
there is a guy you know, trying 
to live not, you know, he was 

529
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,440
willing to take some risks, but 
the therios is so hostile. 

530
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,640
Just the the fauna enough, let 
alone the flora. 

531
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,160
I mean, it's just bad. 
It's just bad. 

532
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,320
He's looking for wonders, not 
dangers. 

533
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,080
Good point. 
Now there might be some 

534
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,400
crossover in the Venn diagram, 
but you get the the the wonder 

535
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,920
side of the Venn diagram before 
you go to the middle area I 

536
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,080
think. 
And life's only so long these 

537
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,120
travels he took. 
Long he would have. 

538
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,640
Taken a lifetime, you know what 
I mean? 

539
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,720
Yeah, like. 
I agree. 

540
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,160
Like super long, some of these 
must have taken like years. 

541
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,240
I mean, it supposedly takes two 
years to go to Ash Eye and back 

542
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,560
just just as a traitor, not as 
someone who's like recording 

543
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600
information along the way, you 
know, and stopping. 

544
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,800
And I guess traders would stop 
at a lot of different places 

545
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,360
along the way, but they wouldn't
go inland very like many, many 

546
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,640
miles to check out, you know, a 
temple or something like that. 

547
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,200
You know, they would pretty much
do all their business at the 

548
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,280
port and then move on. 
So yeah, this is, this would be 

549
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,920
extremely lumpy business we're 
talking about here. 

550
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,320
He did go to the Summer Isles 
though, which is, you know, 

551
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,800
maybe the far the South. 
He went, he spoke with their 

552
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,080
sages. 
I suspect he considered the 

553
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,600
talking trees as a potential 
wonder made by man. 

554
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560
And we'll make the case for that
when we get to the end, which is

555
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240
when we will make all of us will
make our guesses as what we 

556
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,720
think. 
Numbers eight and nine are 

557
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,200
talking, trees will be a 
candidate. 

558
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,440
With Essos, it's more 
complicated. 

559
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,760
We can assume he went nearly 
everywhere in Westeros. 

560
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,400
Essos, no chance. 
There's no way he couldn't have 

561
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,240
done that in one last time. 
And we don't even know the whole

562
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,640
continent. 
And we know for a fact there's 

563
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,240
he just didn't go farther than 
the 5 fourths. 

564
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,280
He may not have even gone to the
5 fourths, but he definitely 

565
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,440
didn't go beyond them. 
He definitely didn't go beyond 

566
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,960
this map you see behind me. 
You know he didn't go beyond 

567
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,720
what we have there. 
He did go to the ruins of Croyne

568
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,440
to talk to the survivors of the 
Roynar. 

569
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,680
It's unlikely he chose any 
wonders from that area since 

570
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,640
it's all ruined, but if not 
there would have been 

571
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,400
candidates. 
Check out our episode Nymeria 

572
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,880
Mother Roin for that, and here's
a quote from that. 

573
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,480
Lomas Longstrider and his 
Wonders Made by Man, recounts 

574
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,920
meeting descendants of the 
Roinar in the ruins of the 

575
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,200
festival city of Croyne, who 
have tales of a darkness that 

576
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,360
made the Roin dwindle and 
disappear, her waters frozen as 

577
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,000
far South as the joining of the 
Selhoru. 

578
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,040
According to these tales, the 
return of the sun came only when

579
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,800
a hero convinced Mother Ruin's 
many children, lesser gods such 

580
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,400
as the Crab King and the Old Man
of the River, to put aside their

581
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,440
bickering and join together to 
sing a secret song that brought 

582
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,320
back the day. 
It's a nice way to bring Lomas 

583
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,520
into the title theme, meaning A 
Song of Ice and Fire and 

584
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,040
bringing him into the ideas A 
Long Night. 

585
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,600
He's one of many historians and 
I'm classifying him as a 

586
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,040
historian in this anecdote 
because he's adding to the base 

587
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,360
of knowledge regarding the long 
Night. 

588
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,880
We don't hear about anybody else
interviewing the Roinar 

589
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,080
survivors to for this 
information. 

590
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,480
It's possible others have, but 
Lomas is the one we hear about 

591
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,840
doing it. 
He also writes about the 

592
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,840
grayscale, the stoneman, the 
foul fogs and water which Tyrion

593
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,480
saw first hand, and the bridge 
of dream, which Tyrion saw 

594
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,520
twice. 
You would think that if Lomas 

595
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,280
also had that weird repassing of
the the just, you know, this is 

596
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,480
inexplicable, this really 
strange double passing of the 

597
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,400
bridge or dream that happens. 
He might have counted that as 

598
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,520
wondrous. 
So I kind of guessed it. 

599
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,360
That didn't happen to him. 
It only happened to Tyrion and 

600
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,440
those that group and maybe some 
others, but but not Lomas. 

601
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,400
Tyrion wonders how amazing and 
beautiful Croyne must have been,

602
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,920
how many weddings must have 
happened at the Palace of Love, 

603
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,920
which he thinks must be 10 times
larger than the Red Keep and 

604
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,800
just beautiful. 
And well, now the region's 

605
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640
called the Sorrow. 
So it's really changed to the 

606
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:21,600
flip. 
It's the reverse. 

607
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,520
It was the Palace of Love and 
now it's called the Palace of 

608
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,280
Sorrow as a ruin. 
In line with that, Tyrion's 

609
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,720
wonderment turns at the love of 
the place. 

610
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,400
He's like imagining all the love
that must have been there. 

611
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,600
And then pretty quickly he 
starts to think of Taisha and 

612
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,200
that turns his thoughts to 
sorrow as well. 

613
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,240
So it's really the whole the 
emotion of the scene is gets 

614
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,600
that full circle there. 
And had Loma seen the Palace of 

615
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Love when it was whole, it 
sounds like it would have been a

616
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,040
very strong candidate. 
But this is, and this is a 

617
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,240
conundrum for us. 
Our wonders are ruins eligible 

618
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,040
to be wonders under the scheme 
auto. 

619
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,360
Like we have two to guess at, 
and one of them in particularly 

620
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,200
is fairly ruined. 
That doesn't mean it isn't 

621
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,520
really wondrous and impressive, 
though. 

622
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,480
Like what? 
At what point is it too ruined 

623
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,320
to be considered a wonder? 
You know? 

624
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920
So that's a trick for us to kind
of figure out and for you all to

625
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,480
weigh in on what you think as 
well. 

626
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,000
One of my thoughts on that on 
that line was the classes of 

627
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,080
roads. 
After only about 50 years I 

628
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,120
think was toppled over by an 
earthquake, but it's still this 

629
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,080
massive statue laying on the 
ground like anyone who heard of 

630
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,640
it or wanted to go see it could 
still go. 

631
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,560
And even though it was ruined 
and over time metal, bronze and 

632
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,520
such from it was stripped away 
for different projects and I 

633
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,000
don't know if that made it less 
grand or less big. 

634
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,160
At what point is it not the 
closest anymore, or not grand 

635
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,920
enough to be a wonder? 
Yeah, that's exactly so. 

636
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,920
This is a bit of a conundrum. 
And so the the pyramid of geese,

637
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,520
we don't even know what state 
exactly it's in, right? 

638
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,920
Like it, let's say it was merely
the foundation, you could just 

639
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,600
see this outline of the base of 
it, but it didn't have any 

640
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,400
height. 
But if you could imagine the 

641
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,680
height from the pyramids of 
marine and see how big the base 

642
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,120
the geese was, would is that 
enough for Lomas to consider it?

643
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,480
Maybe. 
Yeah, it might have been. 

644
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,480
It's super tough. 
You're right. 

645
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,040
You bring up you. 
You've you've shown why this is 

646
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,280
tricky. 
Like can we know he went to 

647
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,120
Slavers Bay? 
There's a note about him looking

648
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,160
at at a Ghiscari obelisk with 
Valyrian writing which depicts 

649
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,320
the freehold defeating the 
Ghiscari in the fourth of the 

650
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,040
five Ghiscari wars. 
The 5th war is when they said no

651
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,640
more. 
Valyria is sacked. 

652
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240
The the capital and the pure 
Great Pyramid which is sitting 

653
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,120
right outside was partly 
destroyed. 

654
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,920
We're not sure how much, but the
city near it was destroyed. 

655
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,200
So that meant the pyramid was no
longer inhabited. 

656
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,720
No one went there anymore 
because the the supporting city 

657
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,480
was gone. 
But yeah, we don't even know how

658
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,160
much of it was destroyed. 
So that's we're going to, that's

659
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,440
going to be one of our 
candidates for for voting on 

660
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,040
later. 
So this is something we all 

661
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,200
talked about a lot offline. 
Like what counts as a ruin? 

662
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,160
At what point is it? 
So yeah, and we're not even 

663
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,480
sure. 
To further confuse the issue, 

664
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,240
we're not sure it went in the 
timeline. 

665
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,120
He saw some of these things 
which might affect what state it

666
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,880
was in when he saw it, right? 
We're not even sure of things 

667
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,520
like if he necessarily needs to 
have seen it, could it? 

668
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,200
Would it be enough to have heard
stories and seen paintings like,

669
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,160
OK, that's And how much would 
his opinion change as he saw 

670
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,080
each one? 
Would his bar go higher? 

671
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,560
Are there any he named But later
thought, Never mind I that's 

672
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,440
when isn't worthy anymore, you 
know. 

673
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,800
He could have his emotion at the
moment, or the enthusiasm of 

674
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,800
people presenting it to him, or 
the perspective of what he had 

675
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,840
seen so far. 
All these could be factors too. 

676
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,200
I I really like that idea 
because I figure he went out to 

677
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,400
do 7 and he ended up with 9 
because he just couldn't narrow 

678
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,280
it down. 
Like he maybe he had like 15 and

679
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,160
he managed to get down to 9. 
He's like, no, I just can't get 

680
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,440
it any smaller than this. 
These are these are too amazing,

681
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,560
too wondrous to to leave off. 
Yeah, he's seen the Bone 

682
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,160
Mountains, that huge mountain 
range that separates the 

683
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,560
Dothraki Sea from everything on 
the other side of it, which is 

684
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,040
by Azabad and and South of that 
is ET and etcetera, lots of 

685
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,960
things over there, the the, the 
dry, deep and all that. 

686
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,480
And he of course did go to ET 
and he did go to Lang. 

687
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,800
And Lang is the, you know, an 
island West of the Shadow Lands,

688
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,680
South of ET. 
He might have gone to Great 

689
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,520
Morak, which is the Isle South 
of Karth that forms the southern

690
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,960
half of the Jade Gates. 
It's a very large island, so 

691
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,040
it'd be kind of odd for him to 
skip it entirely, since he did 

692
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,880
go to Lang, which is also an 
island not too far to the east, 

693
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,800
and Lang is hostile to 
outsiders, and we don't hear 

694
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,320
anything about Great Morak that 
way. 

695
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,400
But Lomas just, it's kind of 
just a missing piece. 

696
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,640
Like, Morak is probably the 
least talked about region in 

697
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
that general area, so we'll just
have to leave it for now. 

698
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,480
He did go to Ashai, but we're 
not sure if he ventured into the

699
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,400
Shadow or if he went all the way
to the 5 Fourths, which is also 

700
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,240
going to be on our list, and 
it's kind of hard not to see him

701
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,000
choosing it if he saw it. 
And it's also possible the Five 

702
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,320
Forts are one that he only read 
about, and that would be enough,

703
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,800
because it's so darn impressive.
But he might be like, really? 

704
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,560
Is it really that big? 
I got to see for sure you know. 

705
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,840
I wonder if he had any sense of 
journalistic integrity. 

706
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,240
You know, like needed to see it 
with his own eyes to count it. 

707
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,120
If that might have been a 
because imagine in these books 

708
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,440
that Tyrion read till they fell 
to pieces. 

709
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,760
It probably wasn't just a seven 
page book, right? 

710
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,679
I can imagine he'd listed all 
the other candidates and maybe 

711
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,880
his adventures along the way and
details. 

712
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:26,360
People told Da da Da he might 
have listed 50 candidates for 

713
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,239
Wonders of the World, but only 
designated nine that Tyrion 

714
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,600
memorized, you know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

715
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,239
All right, let's skip ahead to 
what time he lived in. 

716
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,560
We know he's from Westeros, like
I said, but we don't know what 

717
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,080
time frame he lived in. 
But I think we can narrow it 

718
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,400
down pretty well. 
There's no evidence he visited 

719
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:49,600
Valyria, but he did visit a 
number of places near it, and he

720
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,840
considered the Valyrian Dragon 
roads as one of the wonders of 

721
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,639
the world. 
So it somewhat defies belief 

722
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,320
that he would avoid the freehold
itself. 

723
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,160
So we can surmise he was born 
after the Doom, or he just 

724
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:06,600
wasn't allowed there, or George 
just didn't want to write about 

725
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,680
Valyria yet. 
So he kind of just authorial 

726
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:12,360
license and just didn't include 
anything about that's. 

727
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,560
That's got to be a possibility. 
We got to consider the real 

728
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,280
world potential that George just
didn't want to do that because 

729
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Valeria is so special and he 
didn't want to just casually 

730
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,440
treat that. 
Maybe he wanted to take more 

731
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,280
time with that. 
I don't know about y'all, but I 

732
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,240
strongly like the idea that you 
put forward here that he was 

733
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,160
living in the century of blood. 
I think it all lines up really 

734
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,920
well actually to give us a 
pretty clear like 100 year 

735
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,640
window or whatever of when he 
lived. 

736
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,240
So let me lay out what as Shea 
is saying here. 

737
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,360
Yeah, I I I feel pretty strongly
about it as well. 

738
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,360
I'm pretty confident in this 
century of blood guess, But 

739
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,560
there are, you know, some 
possible flaws with the idea. 

740
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,080
But let me lay it out. 
So he saw the palace of the 1000

741
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,480
rooms and Sarnor that was 
destroyed during the century of 

742
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,240
Blood. 
So we have a he didn't write 

743
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:59,640
about Valyria. 
He did write about this thing 

744
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,000
that was destroyed during the 
century of Blood. 

745
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,200
So he couldn't have lived after 
it. 

746
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,920
Like, there's almost no chance 
because he saw it. 

747
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,760
It is one of the things that he 
just wrote about It explicitly 

748
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,880
says he saw it. 
So that means he was alive 

749
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,000
before the Century of blood or 
during it, right? 

750
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,120
Very much so. 
That at least puts an end point 

751
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,600
on that, going back before he 
saw the Titan of Bravos. 

752
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,840
The Titan of Bravos isn't super,
super old and it was hidden. 

753
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,160
Bravos was even hidden from the 
world until the famous unmasking

754
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,080
of Uthero. 
So Bravos is the least ancient 

755
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,240
of the Free Cities. 
The Titan isn't like something 

756
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:34,440
they built right away. 
We don't know exactly when it 

757
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,080
was built. 
It's been standing for several 

758
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,600
100 years at least, But to have,
he has to have been between 

759
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,560
those two days. 
He has to be between the Titans 

760
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,680
building and the destruction of 
the Palace of 1000 Rooms. 

761
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,840
And given that he didn't write 
anything about Valyria, it kind 

762
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,080
of feels like that's our best 
guess, that he travelled during 

763
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,440
the Century of Blood not long 
before the fall of the Palace of

764
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,360
1000 rooms. 
But maybe, well, maybe like 10 

765
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,840
to 20 years before that. 
Maybe even as much as like 30 or

766
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,720
40. 
We don't know when In the 

767
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,680
Century of Blood, the Palace of 
the 1000 Rooms was sacked. 

768
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,320
Probably later on, because the 
wars of the the Iraqi gradually 

769
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,920
destroyed the Kingdom of Sarnor.
It wasn't just like overnight 

770
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,360
and and Sarnor, the capital 
Sarnath, You don't suppose that 

771
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,640
fell first, right? 
It was pretty far down the line,

772
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,080
so yeah. 
Anyway, all that's to say feels 

773
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,040
like this is our best guess. 
Nina, of course, has some other 

774
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,040
thoughts on it, but let's see 
what she says here. 

775
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,800
Yeah, Nina. 
I don't know if I agree, but I 

776
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,440
think I see a good point here. 
And she says she thinks that 

777
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,560
probably Lomas traveled when the
Valyrian Freehold was still 

778
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,120
extent, in that its existence 
would have facilitated his 

779
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,680
travels through Essos. 
It would have been easier. 

780
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,840
In other words, it would have 
been a single coinage, maybe 

781
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,720
single state. 
And so if she thinks it would 

782
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,200
have been harder for him to 
travel across Essos, not just 

783
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,920
when the Valyrian Empire was 
gone, but in the immediate 

784
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,960
implosion of it and the. 
Lawlessness and. 

785
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,520
Yeah, then she thinks it would 
be harder. 

786
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,000
And I think that's a fair enough
point, but I still just don't 

787
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,920
see why he wouldn't name of 
unless we're saying it's some 

788
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,240
Valyrian location is one of the 
two remaining wonders made by 

789
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,560
man. 
I just don't think he went to 

790
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,360
Valyria and I don't know why he 
would be banned from Valyria. 

791
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,400
Yeah, that's it's hard to say 
why he would be banned. 

792
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,400
Like why would they ban what? 
Maybe they don't because of the 

793
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,440
the prophecy that says Westerosi
gold or Castle Rock gold, but 

794
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:28,680
why would that associate with 
Lomas? 

795
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,920
Yeah, it's it isn't. 
There isn't an obvious reason 

796
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,760
why he would be banned. 
It's it's it's possible but it's

797
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,080
not I. 
Don't know. 

798
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,080
There may be just some 
prejudices. 

799
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,920
There may be, if he stated his 
reason was to to take note of 

800
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,080
their wonders, they might not 
like the idea. 

801
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,960
They want to keep it secret. 
This is all very speculative, 

802
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,240
but but I It's also possible 
that he went there many times, 

803
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,760
right? 
Maybe he went there so many 

804
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,960
times. 
Kind of like if he's from Old 

805
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,280
Town, he doesn't think of the 
Hightower as being a Wonder 

806
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,120
because he's so right. 
Maybe he spent so much time 

807
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,080
there that those didn't even 
seem like Wonder's name. 

808
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,520
He's trying to find things 
better than that. 

809
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,640
Maybe his benefactor might have 
been from Valyria and you know 

810
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,000
what's in the rest of the world 
and send him out to these other 

811
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:13,840
places. 
You don't. 

812
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,880
You don't need to write about 
this. 

813
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,880
Already know about this. 
I can think of lots of reasons, 

814
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,840
but I do think it's a default 
theory. 

815
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,720
That is the time that Century 
Blood is when he was traveling. 

816
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,360
I have another answer for you, 
Sean. 

817
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:28,520
This is the wonders made by man.
Valyrians are better than men. 

818
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,440
They're they're like gods. 
Talk about the wonders made by 

819
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,040
gods and you'd have a whole book
of Valyrian wonders. 

820
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,640
Well, those dragon roads should 
be wonders made by Dragons then,

821
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,000
right? 
Yeah. 

822
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,320
I was going to say they are 
cheated by using Dragons. 

823
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:46,640
You wonder if it might be 
easier, not easier, but easier 

824
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,480
to travel as a nobody in a time 
like the Century Blood. 

825
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,760
It sounds like it's chaotic, but
we can't assume the entire hunt.

826
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,760
Like the 100 Years War wasn't 
literally 100 straight years of 

827
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,920
war. 
It was off and on. 

828
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,480
Of every village across the 
whole planet, right? 

829
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,000
So maybe I doubt as well like 
Nina does. 

830
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,960
It's that he travelled 
immediately in the aftermath of 

831
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,520
the fall of Valyria, the Doom of
Valyria. 

832
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,520
But maybe 50 years after that, 
when things have calmed down a 

833
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,200
bit and the wars are maybe a 
little more isolated in certain 

834
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,440
places. 
Or maybe they flare back up 

835
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,040
again. 
But I wonder if he had to travel

836
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,720
like Incognito. 
I don't think he did, because 

837
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:19,000
he's a nobody. 
That's interesting because we 

838
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,200
think about our POV characters. 
They almost always travel 

839
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,320
Incognito. 
Like almost half the POV 

840
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,520
characters have travelled 
Incognito or with a false 

841
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,280
identity. 
Catelyn, Arya, Well, Arya's had 

842
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,520
like 20 false identities, you 
know, with more, with more come,

843
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,840
more to come. 
You know Sansa of Yes. 

844
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,960
Tyrion. 
Yeah, multiple times. 

845
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,200
Barristan Selmy? 
Yes. 

846
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,720
Quentin. 
Yep. 

847
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:46,480
It's like, wow, like so many. 
That's just PO VS too. 

848
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,880
Like if you go out. 
Of POV to find Incognito, Brian,

849
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:51,960
Yeah. 
Sure. 

850
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,160
Maybe even Jamie. 
You know he. 

851
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,000
Shaved his head to be Incognito.
Yeah, he tried. 

852
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,160
He tried to hide himself. 
Yeah, like you're like almost. 

853
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,240
It's like more than half the PO 
VS have travelled Incognito at 

854
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,640
some point. 
You know, it's pretty. 

855
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,040
It's actually kind of funny when
you think about it. 

856
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,280
That was like, yeah, because 
they they they're they're kind 

857
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,600
of famous. 
And some of them have, like a 

858
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,120
look like Starks have a look 
like Jon gets recognized as a 

859
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,520
Stark beyond the Wall by people 
who have never seen him before. 

860
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,960
It's like, whoa, yeah. 
So you can kind of see why they,

861
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,400
they want to conceal their 
identity. 

862
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,880
But Lomas, as far as we know, 
he's a nobody. 

863
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,280
I guess that might that might be
good. 

864
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,720
Like, well, that guy's not rich.
He's not worth anything. 

865
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,880
Who cares, you know? 
He's not a target of kidnappers 

866
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,120
or slavers or whatever. 
Well, slavers he would, because 

867
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,200
everyone's their target. 
But well, maybe everyone would 

868
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,280
be active. 
But other than them, you know 

869
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,160
he's not he's not a valuable 
hostage. 

870
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,720
He's he could be a valuable, you
know, employee. 

871
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:45,160
Forced employee, I suppose. 
So that'd be the one thing he 

872
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,080
would have to to look out for 
would be slavers. 

873
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,640
And disguise wouldn't stop 
slavers, right. 

874
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:50,680
They're like, well, you're a 
person. 

875
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,360
You're a person, so we want you.
Unless he disguises himself as a

876
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,480
tree. 
They won't, you know they won't.

877
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,800
Like Sean said, war wasn't 
raging everywhere. 

878
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,760
Instability wasn't everywhere. 
There's things you can do. 

879
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,720
It still takes a certain level 
of bravery, though. 

880
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,920
A certain level of like I want 
to go out and explore or I want 

881
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,840
to do this and that. 
It's it's still very impressive.

882
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,160
I'm I'm someone who likes to 
stay at home so this is this 

883
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,160
kind of personality is really 
really is impressive to me 

884
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,680
something that's very different.
I really seek to understand that

885
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,520
psyche so I'm very fascinated by
the explorer personality. 

886
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,840
All right, we're we're going to 
take a short break and come back

887
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,240
with the actual wonders. 
We'll get into the the meat of 

888
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:31,000
the discussion and our guesses 
and and all of our descriptions 

889
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,600
and real world comparisons. 
But first, you can be a 

890
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,040
supporter of our show by joining
us on 

891
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,920
patreonthatspatreon.com/history 
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892
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,040
That gives you access to a whole
lot of bonus episodes. 

893
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,720
I used to list them, but we have
so many Patreon only episodes 

894
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:49,640
now that it would take too long 
to list them. 

895
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,840
So just know that by signing up 
you get a whole mess of content 

896
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,440
that you wouldn't have had 
before, in addition to hopefully

897
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,320
feeling good about supporting, 
you know, something that you 

898
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,000
consume. 
I tend to operate the same way. 

899
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:07,920
I listen to a lot of podcasts, 
and the ones that I listen to 

900
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,720
the most, I support them with 
with by telling my friends about

901
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:13,960
them by signing up. 
Financially, if they have a 

902
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,680
Patreon, not all of them do, but
yeah, it's a pretty standard 

903
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,960
thing. 
I think if you're the one the 

904
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,240
shows you consume the most, 
maybe those are the ones you 

905
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:22,760
should support. 
That's how I look at it. 

906
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,440
Your mileage may vary, but I 
think it's a a reasonable basis.

907
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,560
Also, shout out to our Twitch 
streams. 

908
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,880
Most Fridays I stream CK3 for A 
Song of Ice and Fire, which is a

909
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,760
lot of fun. 
It's a big complicated 

910
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,200
role-playing game and set in the
world of A Song of Ice and Fire 

911
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,080
with dynasties and wars and 
artifacts and murder and 

912
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,400
intrigue and all sorts of fun 
stuff. 

913
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,280
We gather it on on Twitch most 
Fridays at six. 

914
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:59,000
Aziz's next Twitch stream will 
be May 3rd, Friday, May 3rd. 

915
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,720
He'll be taking this week off. 
He's going to a little song by 

916
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:07,000
some fire event, but he'll be 
back with the 9 Penny Kings. 

917
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:08,520
That's right. 
We'll be doing starting a new 

918
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,880
campaign. 
So would I get in while it's 

919
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,760
early? 
So we talked a lot about Lomas 

920
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:18,400
as a person, but surely it's his
travels, his places that he's 

921
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,240
been to that are the greater 
point of interest. 

922
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:23,800
Let's get into the wonders of 
the world, our thoughts on 

923
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,600
whether he saw Valyria aside. 
Because if he did, we have no 

924
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,200
writing about it, so we can't 
really do much more with that. 

925
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,800
But it is absolutely the 
Valyrian roads which prompt 

926
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,280
Tyrion's thoughts of his idol in
the 1st place quote. 

927
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:44,280
Come moonrise, they were back in
their saddles, trotting eastward

928
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:49,360
under a mantle of stars. 
The old Valyrian Rd. glimmered 

929
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,640
ahead of them like a long silver
ribbon, winding through Wood and

930
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,360
Dale. 
For a little while, Tyrion 

931
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:02,960
Lannister felt almost at peace. 
Lomas LON Strider told it true. 

932
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,080
The roads of wonder. 
The stone roads of Valyria were 

933
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,680
one of LON Strider's nine, the 
5th I believe. 

934
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,440
The fourth said Tyrion, who had 
committed all 16 of the wonders 

935
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,080
to memory as a boy. 
His uncle Jerion liked to set 

936
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,360
him on the table during feasts 
and make him recite them. 

937
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,800
Jerian had a bit of explorer in 
him as well, getting lost, you 

938
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,720
know, trying to search the ruins
of Valyrian. 

939
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,160
Well, we never heard from him 
again, but we talked. 

940
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,480
We talked about him in our 
episode The Lost Valyrian Steel.

941
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:32,840
Yeah, too bad. 
Tyrion. 

942
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,840
We don't have like a Bran, like 
a vision of Bran, like seeing 

943
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,960
Tyrion reciting 16 wonders or 
something like that. 

944
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,920
That's. 
I don't know. 

945
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,760
Of course then we'd lose the fun
of of guessing. 

946
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,200
So we we went either way. 
What's a bit unusual about this 

947
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,360
conundrum is that even though we
don't know which sites he 

948
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,080
specifically designated his 
wonders, we almost surely know 

949
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,760
what he was choosing from. 
At least you know, not from 

950
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:59,960
long. 
Lomas, Longstreider. 

951
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:02,360
We always we might learn about 
things from other people. 

952
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,560
It's something I said I touched 
on at the intro, like, Lomas 

953
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,400
considered the caves of Norvos 
as one of the natural wonders of

954
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,240
the world. 
But again, what would he think 

955
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:12,720
of the caves that blood Raven's 
caves? 

956
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,400
Would he say, Oh, this is even 
fancier? 

957
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,680
So yeah, a reminder that we 
would keep those things in mind.

958
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,040
Like what else does the Children
of the Forest scene or the giant

959
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,160
scene? 
Like the Lands Beyond Winter? 

960
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,840
Lands of Always Winter. 
Like, I don't think he went 

961
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,360
there, but that might be pretty 
wondrous. 

962
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,640
What do you say? 
Fancier or creepier. 

963
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,960
Yeah, fancier is definitely not 
the right word. 

964
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,680
I don't know why I said fancy. 
There's bones everywhere. 

965
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,080
I mean, that's not fancy. 
Like bones on the ground. 

966
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,840
There's dying things. 
It's too dark. 

967
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,000
Yeah. 
How could you tell it's fancy? 

968
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,200
You can't see a damn thing in 
here. 

969
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:44,200
Yeah. 
So let's, let's lay out what we 

970
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,160
know of the nine man made 
wonders of the world. 

971
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,720
There are two unlisted, like we 
said. 

972
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,240
And at the end of this episode 
we'll we'll take our guesses of 

973
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,920
those seven one for sure is in 
Westeros with other candidates 

974
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,280
being there as well and then 
which we'll talk about in a 

975
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,760
separate a separate episode of 
the seven made by gods and or 

976
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,080
nature. 
We only know 1/2, so it's a lot 

977
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,560
harder for does that'll be a 
little be a lot more guesswork 

978
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:14,000
when we do Part 2 of this. 
And so we don't know. 

979
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,760
In other words, to reverse that,
we don't know two of the man 

980
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,440
made and five or six of the 
natural ones. 

981
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,480
And he travelled to places that 
he didn't quite deem worthy of 

982
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,280
wonder status. 
Which is why we have so much 

983
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,120
material here, 'cause we have 
places he went to and maybe 

984
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,040
named a wonder, but we don't. 
We're not even sure. 

985
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,840
So some of these will be like 
wonders that made it, and 

986
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,320
someone will be like wonders 
that didn't quite make the cut. 

987
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,600
And some of that's kind of up 
for us to decide. 

988
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,240
And kind of like our episode 
last week on the missing. 

989
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:44,480
We're not doing deep dives on 
any of these. 

990
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,120
We don't have time to do a deep 
dive on any one of these, since 

991
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,840
we're trying to do more of an 
overview. 

992
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,840
So you out there, if you want us
to do a deep dive on any one of 

993
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:57,600
these in particular, all of them
is a viable option, then let us 

994
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,200
know. 
Sometimes the item, the wonder, 

995
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,080
is represented by what's around 
it, not just what it is. 

996
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,400
Like. 
Need to suggest that it's not 

997
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,440
just the Wall, but the whole 
institution of the Night's Watch

998
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,360
That adds a little boost to the 
the wondrousness of it all. 

999
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,440
The the men of the Night's Watch
are part of what makes it 

1000
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,320
wondrous. 
Their dedication, their 

1001
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,840
devotion. 
They're they're vigil, they're 

1002
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,520
endless vigil. 
But also the freaking 700 foot 

1003
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,000
Wall ice itself, you know, but 
that's the main part. 

1004
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,040
But I think the history and the 
length of time and the people 

1005
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,360
associated with it are part of 
it. 

1006
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,720
I think that's part of what 
makes it wondrous. 

1007
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,280
Don't would would you agree with
that, Sean? 

1008
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,760
You think this is a point made 
by Nina, and I think it's a very

1009
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,440
good point. 
Yeah, I think similar the think 

1010
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,320
of Karth right? 
It it's the walls of Karth, I 

1011
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,040
think is what he names. 
But what if the walls weren't 

1012
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,800
there? 
The city of itself is still 

1013
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,400
pretty impressive. 
Maybe it doesn't get named as a 

1014
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,920
wonder, right? 
But say the walls are there with

1015
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,680
the city, but none of the 
artistic carvings are on the 

1016
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,600
walls. 
Does it still get it? 

1017
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,560
It's the conglomeration of all 
those different things. 

1018
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,160
I think that does it. 
And again, like I was kind of 

1019
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,360
saying earlier, this isn't 
exactly scientific in the real 

1020
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,400
world. 
It wasn't either. 

1021
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,920
It wasn't like a group of 
leaders and scientists and 

1022
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,280
engineers from across the world 
came together with with a list 

1023
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,160
of standards and then searched 
out everything that met those, 

1024
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,800
you know, it's just people saw 
it, thought it was impressive, 

1025
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,920
threw it on the list, you know. 
So the the, the combined efforts

1026
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,400
that make it or maintain it 
could be as much a factor as how

1027
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,840
far away it is or how it's being
presented to you. 

1028
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,400
What if when he got the cars, 
people ran out shooting bows and

1029
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,360
arrows at him and he? 
Had to run away, like, yeah, 

1030
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,520
yeah, name that place. 
You know, like the land of angry

1031
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:49,360
Bowman. 
Yeah. 

1032
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,680
And on some level, it seems like
historically in the real world 

1033
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,160
it was. 
It's like a kind of a a modern 

1034
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,360
thing now to travel, like travel
agents and travel guidebooks and

1035
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:05,840
destination weddings and all 
this different stuff that that 

1036
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,680
would have been more difficult 
in ancient times for most 

1037
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,240
people, but it still would have 
been fun and exciting to read 

1038
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:13,160
about these places you don't 
really have the ability to 

1039
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,400
visit, and someone who maybe did
have the ability to visit might 

1040
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,080
not know where to go. 
But when someone says these are 

1041
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,120
the seven wonders, well, that's 
where I'm going. 

1042
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,920
Especially if we almost did have
some benefactor who is trying to

1043
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,360
promote. 
Who wanted their own? 

1044
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,640
Country or their own shipping 
services or whatever else you. 

1045
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,280
Know there may have been a thing
behind. 

1046
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,840
It it's hard for us to account 
for that might have caused them 

1047
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,720
to choose one over another, but 
I I I don't necessarily 

1048
00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:42,320
completely expect that, but I I 
am to your point, I don't think 

1049
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,440
it's just the image of the 
physical structure. 

1050
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,640
I think there's all these other 
things involved. 

1051
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:49,080
Yeah, I I think that's 
important. 

1052
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:50,240
Yeah. 
Like when we choose wonders in 

1053
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:51,600
the real world. 
You're right, there's no single 

1054
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,720
governing body like the Guinness
picks picks wonders, but there's

1055
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:59,840
UNESCO picks, World Heritage 
sites and like USA TODAY did a 

1056
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,080
thing where they picked new 
wonders and they had judges who 

1057
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,880
were like experts. 
It wasn't just like TV 

1058
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,240
personalities only, but still, 
like, yeah, these things just 

1059
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:08,040
come out of nowhere. 
There's no central authority for

1060
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,440
any of this stuff. 
There are 7 modern Wonders of 

1061
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,040
the world, but it was just an 
organization that decided to 

1062
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,600
take a poll and they had 
billions of dollars and gave out

1063
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,680
prizes and it was a whole thing.
It lasted years, although it was

1064
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,560
just people calling in and like 
South Korea incentivized its 

1065
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,600
population to call in to to, you
know, they I think they gave out

1066
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,640
the equivalent of like millions 
and millions of dollars to 

1067
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,880
people to call in. 
And sure enough they got Jeju 

1068
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,440
Island as one of the seven 
natural wonders of the of the 

1069
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,560
world. 
So again, it's not that it isn't

1070
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,000
a fantastic spot, but it's not 
totally scientific, even in 

1071
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,600
modern times. 
Right, right, right, right. 

1072
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,520
Well, maybe Sean. 
The 8th natural wonder of the 

1073
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:54,240
world is the motivational 
speakers and spirit of South 

1074
00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,600
Korea. 
Yeah, right. 

1075
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,240
We'll have to, we'll have to put
that one in the in the thinker 

1076
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:03,800
again, ponder it for a while. 
So we don't know what order 

1077
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,160
Lomas put them in, not even sure
that matters. 

1078
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,040
But it's possible one day that 
that he put them in some 

1079
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,760
specific order. 
For that, we only know that the 

1080
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,760
roads are #5, so we'll do that 
ourselves. 

1081
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,480
We'll start with the most 
familiar, the one that features 

1082
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:20,360
by far, in the most chapters. 
It's the wall, 300 miles long, 7

1083
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,200
feet high. 
It stretches from one side of 

1084
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,120
the continent to the other. 
Yeah, you know it. 

1085
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,760
You know it. 700 feet high. 
You might have misspoke there. 

1086
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,960
Just Oh yeah. 
OK, either way, yeah, 700 feet 

1087
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,400
high. 
We discussed the wall recently 

1088
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,840
in our Song of Ice and Fire in 
Rome episode because the wall 

1089
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,000
was inspired by Hadrian's Wall 
and not the initial edifice 

1090
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,120
itself, though that was part of 
it so much as the feeling that a

1091
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,320
legionary standing atop that 
wall would have. 

1092
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,560
That's the thing George was 
trying to capture. 

1093
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,160
The edifice was secondary to the
feeling a person would have a 

1094
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,200
legionary wondering what might 
emerge from the frozen 

1095
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,040
wilderness to the north, and 
Tyrion reflects that. 

1096
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,080
Ah, here. 
When he had donned his glove 

1097
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:01,360
again, Jon Snow turned abruptly 
and walked to the low, icy 

1098
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,000
northern parapet. 
Beyond him the Wall fell away 

1099
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,240
sharply. 
Beyond him there was only the 

1100
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:13,040
darkness and the wild. 
Tyrion followed him, and side by

1101
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:18,160
side they stood upon the edge of
the world as he stood there and 

1102
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,000
looked at all that darkness, 
with no fires burning anywhere. 

1103
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,760
With the wind blowing and the 
cold like a spear in his guts, 

1104
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,880
Tyrion Lannister felt as though 
he could almost believe the talk

1105
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,120
of the others, the enemy in the 
night. 

1106
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:39,760
His jokes of grumkins and snarks
no longer seemed quite so droll.

1107
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,320
Yeah, he was expecting to, you 
know, repeat off the wall. 

1108
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,360
He didn't. 
He didn't even think of it 

1109
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,120
because he was but wondered you 
know he was like wow this is 

1110
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:51,320
amazing and he but it was tinged
with with fear you know as well.

1111
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,400
It wasn't just wonder. 
It was those two those two 

1112
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,040
emotions together. 
We've discussed the wall plenty 

1113
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,480
of times of course. 
Perhaps most prominently in our 

1114
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,400
episode on Brandon the Builder 
and our patrons only episode The

1115
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,760
buildings of Brandon where we 
discuss how it was built and the

1116
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,800
potential of using giants as 
slaves and or friendly workers 

1117
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:13,160
maybe one or the other. 
So yeah, Hadrian's Wall is a 

1118
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,120
real life comparison. 
So is the Great Wall of China. 

1119
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,600
This is probably the most 
obvious of the man made wonders 

1120
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,160
just on the sheer size of it, 
right? 

1121
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:22,720
It's it's also the oldest that 
we know of. 

1122
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,200
It's possible the High Tower is 
a wonder, and the High Tower's 

1123
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,320
foundation is probably older 
than the walls, but the 

1124
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:33,160
completed version now isn't. 
Yet again there should be a 

1125
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,240
book, Wonders Made by Giants. 
Made by giants. 

1126
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:42,280
That's right, That's. 
You know, you're you're joking 

1127
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,360
there, but I, I, I actually 
meant to make this point 

1128
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,320
earlier. 
There literally could be more 

1129
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,040
books. 
There could be more wonders that

1130
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,320
Lomas LON Strider named, like 
wonders of Essos or wonders of 

1131
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,480
Westeros that either Terry never
got or they were destroyed, like

1132
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,560
they just got wet in a storm at 
sea. 

1133
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,840
Or, you know, yeah, it's true 
possible that there's more. 

1134
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,920
Yeah, I mean, we we certainly 
know of a lot of real books in 

1135
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,240
the real world that we know the 
titles of, but there's no copies

1136
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:06,640
of them. 
Culinary wonders. 

1137
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,800
Culinary wonders, George. 
George was already written that 

1138
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:10,200
one. 
Yeah. 

1139
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,160
So the Wall, it's not it's not 
hard to figure out how he got 

1140
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,320
there, right. 
There would be no Kings Rd. 

1141
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,840
So he may not have just walked 
up through the neck. 

1142
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,560
He may have just taken ship to 
White Harbor. 

1143
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,920
That's probably the simplest 
thing And we'll see a pattern 

1144
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,760
there with the the Westerosi 
options which we'll come back to

1145
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,680
cause the rest of our set known 
Seven are not in Westeros but 

1146
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,200
several of the ones that we're 
considering for the missing ones

1147
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,840
are. 
So as well Nina points out when 

1148
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,680
he visited the Wall, even though
we're not sure when it was, it 

1149
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,440
would have been a lot larger 
than it was today because it was

1150
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,920
the conquest that saw the 
decline of the Wall and he 

1151
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,600
definitely was there before the 
conquest. 

1152
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,920
So when he went to the Wall it 
might have been even more 

1153
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,800
impressive because there would 
have been a lot of people. 

1154
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:53,960
If he went now it would maybe 
look a little rundown. 

1155
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,400
It might not be so the the 
edifice is still impressive, the

1156
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:59,760
looking out over the wall which 
would be but the people it it 

1157
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,240
might not seem so impressive 
anymore. 

1158
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:02,920
Like you got hardly anybody 
there. 

1159
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:04,920
You know there's a lot of 
criminals. 

1160
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:09,120
The number of like Knights and 
Lords that population has 

1161
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,800
declined severely so. 
Part of the impressiveness might

1162
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,040
have been, as we were saying, 
beyond just the physical 

1163
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,040
appearance of the wall, but the 
process of feeding all the 

1164
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,880
people manning it. 
Yeah, you know, that's true 

1165
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:26,440
Upkeep and bustling and and 
supply and everything to 

1166
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,440
maintain. 
That might have added to the 

1167
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,240
impressiveness. 
Yeah, the fact that the the 

1168
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:32,280
North supports it, that might 
be, yeah, that's that's a 

1169
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,520
wonder. 
It's kind of unique in that 

1170
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,160
sense, semi unique anyway. 
I don't know. 

1171
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,320
Y'all, even with me to bring up 
the thing about the Nights Watch

1172
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,960
adding to it. 
I think if you came upon that 

1173
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,120
wall completely unmanned, no one
is there. 

1174
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,840
Nothing's going on at all. 
I think it's a wonder. 

1175
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:48,640
It's still a wonder. 
It's. 

1176
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:49,840
Still a wonder. 
I guess you're right. 

1177
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,080
You don't need the people there 
to make it wondrous. 

1178
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:53,960
It just, I think it adds to it. 
But you're right, you could it 

1179
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,000
could be completely abandoned. 
You could be like whoa, like 

1180
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,400
like the five fours seem to be. 
They seem to be completely 

1181
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,440
abandoned and are probably on 
the list too, but not explicitly

1182
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:02,680
so. 
So the Valerian roads. 

1183
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,440
Let's come back to that. 
We've already quoted the roads 

1184
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,560
when we introduced this topic 
through Tyrion, so here's a 

1185
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:07,480
different. 
Take. 

1186
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,560
Though Yiti is a vast land, much
of it covered by dense forest 

1187
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:16,520
and sweltering jungles, travel 
from one end of the empire to 

1188
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,840
the other is swift and safe for 
the great web of stone roads 

1189
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,200
built by the eunuch emperors of 
old have no equal in all the 

1190
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,680
world, save for the dragon roads
of the Valyrians. 

1191
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,440
So he's talked about how 
impressive these are and then 

1192
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,600
says, but these are even more 
impressive. 

1193
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,840
It's the second wonder we see. 
We see the wall first, like 

1194
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,720
what, chapter six or seven when 
John goes there. 

1195
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,040
But we see actually, maybe we 
see these first. 

1196
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:46,800
And I'm thinking about it 
because Danny goes out on a 

1197
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,280
branch of the Valyrian roads in 
her third chapter, right after 

1198
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,080
wearing Khal Drogo, and it's 
only barely mentioned. 

1199
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,720
It's just, you know, kind of 
just part of the scenery and 

1200
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,440
they go really far. 
Like these are also called the 

1201
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,360
dragon roads and the real life 
comparison is just, well, 

1202
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,840
asphalt or the Roman roads to 
get to use something ancient 

1203
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,160
that lasted a long time. 
The Roman roads maybe are more 

1204
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,240
like the Yitish roads 'cause 
they're more like a regular 

1205
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,640
stone Rd. that required a lot of
upkeep, but that upkeep was done

1206
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:16,720
and they lasted forever and some
of them are still there. 

1207
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,840
The Valerian roads apparently 
are different than asphalt and 

1208
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,360
that they don't require upkeep 
other than keeping them clear, 

1209
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,400
which no Rd. can self clear 
itself. 

1210
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,680
You know, self clear, like a 
tree falls over it. 

1211
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,080
You still got to move that out 
of the way. 

1212
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,040
If some rubble falls, you still 
got to do that. 

1213
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,160
But the road itself doesn't 
crack, doesn't wear down from 

1214
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,000
rain or heat or anything like 
that asphalt does, but it's 

1215
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,440
remarkably strong at at handling
the elements. 

1216
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,880
So this is just a kind of a 
magical version of Asphalt, I 

1217
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,400
think. 
Or dare we say more 

1218
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,440
sophisticated version if it's 
not not magical, but I think it 

1219
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,080
probably is. 
Yeah, I think that this is 

1220
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,480
another example of something 
that that we take for granted in

1221
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:59,160
the modern world is roads. 
That I mean not only that we 

1222
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,760
have them all over the place and
the amount of traffic that they 

1223
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,040
manage and all the different 
weather they have to be built 

1224
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:11,040
in, but sometimes these massive 
bridge on bridge of circular 

1225
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,120
like it's just incredible what 
humans have done when it comes 

1226
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,880
to roads. 
And we kind of take it for 

1227
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,560
granted. 
We don't realize how impressive 

1228
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,720
if Tyrion saw it or if someone 
from once again, you don't have 

1229
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:25,600
to go back to like 2000 years. 
If you just go back 100 years 

1230
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,120
and let someone see the roads 
that we built now it's just mind

1231
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:30,760
boggling. 
Amazing they are. 

1232
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,240
There's probably like parts of 
your any, like any one of you 

1233
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:34,840
out there listening right now. 
There's probably parts of your 

1234
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,480
community that you lived in or 
have lived in that was not 

1235
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,280
accessible few 100 years ago. 
Like the the community exists 

1236
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,200
because of a bridge that 
connects them, like otherwise 

1237
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,600
this the city wouldn't be viable
because it's just too remote. 

1238
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,520
But this bridge makes it not 
remote, right. 

1239
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:47,680
And that's. 
Yeah, you're right. 

1240
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,040
So roads kind of do the same 
thing. 

1241
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,960
They they create connection 
where there maybe wasn't some. 

1242
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,160
And these roads are special 
because they have lasted 

1243
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,760
thousands of years, which is 
like even the Roman roads. 

1244
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,360
Well, maybe 2000 years is the 
most you could say for those. 

1245
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,880
These are way longer lasting and
have required far less upkeep. 

1246
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,120
So that's pretty pretty amazing.
And like you said, it's it's not

1247
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,360
necessarily impressive right 
away, especially the modern 

1248
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:12,640
world. 
And it might not have been that 

1249
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,520
impressive right away to lo miss
long strider. 

1250
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:19,160
But as he saw how straight they 
were, how durable they were, how

1251
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,200
extensive they were, how far 
they went and how many square 

1252
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,520
miles they covered and and then 
learned how durable they were 

1253
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,920
which he might not have known 
that right away And then see 

1254
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,120
wow, none of these are broken. 
These are all and that it's the 

1255
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,000
building of that that gradually 
makes it more wondrous when he's

1256
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,520
like, wow, this is incredible. 
When he realizes a a combination

1257
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,800
of what it took to build the 
roads and what they are 

1258
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,000
enabling, like the longer he 
travels on them and the more 

1259
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,640
connections he sees they create.
Like think of what it would have

1260
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,480
taken for him to get to the Wall
right? 

1261
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,240
Like we were just talking about 
he wouldn't have had the Kings 

1262
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,720
Lord to travel on. 
So think about what an ordeal it

1263
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:55,920
would have been for him to get 
to the Wall. 

1264
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:00,520
Now over here he's travelling 
that same distance in a week 

1265
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,920
instead of three months or. 
Something right and sees. 

1266
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,000
All the other people also 
travelling this distance with 

1267
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:06,720
such. 
Ease. 

1268
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,960
That's a good point. 
That would shift his gears in 

1269
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,760
realizing how valuable it was 
and how much to change the 

1270
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,160
landscape, never mind the effort
that went into creating it like.

1271
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,760
That's a great point, because if
he had travelled Westeros when 

1272
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:22,320
the Kings Rd. existed, which he 
didn't, this would still be 

1273
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,680
really impressive by comparison.
But he traveled it when there 

1274
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,000
was just like a lot of dirt 
paths and there been some roads.

1275
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,280
But like, they'd be nothing like
this. 

1276
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:29,760
So this would be this would be 
an order of magnet. 

1277
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,360
Like, whoa, I didn't he wouldn't
have even necessarily have known

1278
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,040
such a thing was possible. 
Maybe he read about it in 

1279
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:39,120
advance, but yeah, this is one 
of those ones that it might have

1280
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:40,760
looked pretty impressive right 
away, but probably wasn't a 

1281
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,280
wonder. 
Like, right off the bat, you 

1282
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:43,360
know? 
But, like, over time, he's 

1283
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,520
probably like, Damn, this is 
wondrous. 

1284
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,280
Like you said, another thing 
that would happen over time is 

1285
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,960
you would witness the rain, not 
shut everything down once again.

1286
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,680
Like traveling to to the wall or
just from any almost any two 

1287
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,360
places in Westeros of you know 
more than a few days travel. 

1288
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,320
The first time it rains, 
suddenly you just shut, OK, we 

1289
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,400
can't go now, we have to wait 
until it stops raining. 

1290
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,360
But the, the and the longer you 
have to travel, the more likely 

1291
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,520
you are to hit rain. 
So these roads you can travel so

1292
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,920
far, so quick and when it rains 
you still don't get shut down 

1293
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,040
and so many people get to do it.
It's. 

1294
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:16,960
And and he would speak to people
that know the difference because

1295
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:18,400
those roads don't cover 
everywhere. 

1296
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,080
So in Westeros you don't have 
any roads like that. 

1297
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:25,080
In in Essos you have crappy dirt
tracks and the Valerian roads. 

1298
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,560
So you really are like, damn it,
I'm going to have to take the 

1299
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,040
crappy tracks. 
But like, yeah, so he would hear

1300
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,880
that from people like, oh, these
things are incredible. 

1301
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,680
Like the first time he sees, 
like, multiple wagons, just, 

1302
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,400
like, cruising down. 
He'd be like having been used to

1303
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,720
seeing wagons stuck in the mud 
and all these other things. 

1304
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,640
You're like, OK then, yeah, so 
it's really just a the body of 

1305
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:46,920
knowledge builds and it becomes 
more impressive over time. 

1306
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,600
OK, let's move on to the Triple 
walls of Karth, starting it 

1307
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:55,640
right off with a quote. 
Three thick walls encircled 

1308
01:02:55,640 --> 01:03:00,480
Karth, elaborately carved. 
The outer was red sandstone, 30 

1309
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,280
feet high and decorated with 
animals, snakes, Slytherin kites

1310
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:09,440
flying, fish swimming, 
intermingled with wolves of the 

1311
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:13,920
red waste and striped sources, 
and monstrous elephants. 

1312
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:19,600
The middle wall, 40 feet high, 
was grey granite, alive with 

1313
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,840
scenes of war, the clash of 
sword and shield and spear, 

1314
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,040
arrows in flight, heroes at 
battle, and babes being 

1315
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:33,760
butchered pyres of the dead. 
The innermost wall was 50 feet 

1316
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:38,520
of black marble with carvings 
that made Danny blush until she 

1317
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,040
told herself that she was being 
a fool. 

1318
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,320
She was no maid. 
If she could look on the grey 

1319
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,720
walls, scenes of slaughter, why 
should she avert her eyes from 

1320
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,040
the sight of men and women 
giving pleasure to one another? 

1321
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:57,080
The outer gates were banded with
copper, the middle with iron. 

1322
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,880
The innermost were studded with 
golden eyes. 

1323
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,480
All opened at Danny's approach. 
Wait, what? 

1324
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,480
All eyes opened at her. 
That last part is like, wait, 

1325
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,880
what? 
What is going on there? 

1326
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,680
Is that some sort of strange 
artifice, like a trick of the 

1327
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,200
light? 
Or is it some sort of actual 

1328
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,160
sorcery going on there? 
It's either way, it's amazing. 

1329
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:18,680
It sounds incredibly 
spectacular. 

1330
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:22,560
I think it meant all the gates 
open, just not all the eyes, all

1331
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,960
the studded eyes open. 
Maybe. 

1332
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,720
But yours is cooler. 
So that's possible. 

1333
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,320
Yeah, all opened, all the gates 
up. 

1334
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,440
You might be right, The gap 
might might be referred to the 

1335
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,440
gate. 
Either way, a 30 foot red wall, 

1336
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,680
a 40 foot Gray wall, and a 50 
foot black marble wall. 

1337
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,640
Now, the only other place we 
know of a black marble wall is 

1338
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:45,400
in the the black walls of 
Volantis, which keep the blood 

1339
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,160
of Valyre from mingling with the
lesser folk, right? 

1340
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:51,920
Well, at least according to 
them, obviously I I don't cosign

1341
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:56,000
that statement. 
But this wall, the cart is huge,

1342
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,960
and each of these three walls 
encircles the entire wall, and 

1343
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:03,040
there's carvings the entire way 
around. 

1344
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,440
That's absurdly amazing. 
Like, the level of artwork here 

1345
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:07,840
is incredible. 
And like you said, Sean, though,

1346
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,920
I really do think that if you 
don't have a city there, if it's

1347
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,640
just these walls, which would be
weird, but if you did, it might 

1348
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,120
still be wondrous, but it might,
let's say that adds more to it 

1349
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,560
than say the the people of the 
Nights watch add to the wall. 

1350
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:25,240
You know, also being such a huge
city, being a port city, this 

1351
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,960
wouldn't be very hard for him to
get to, you know, like take a 

1352
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,200
ship there. 
It's a long journey, but it's 

1353
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:32,960
not like how the heck am I going
to get to Karth? 

1354
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,320
It's just mostly just a matter 
of having money, having the the,

1355
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,080
the fare to pay your way there. 
Especially if you're like 

1356
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,480
leaving from King's Landing or 
Gull Town or Old Town where 

1357
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:41,600
there's going to be plenty of 
ships. 

1358
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,920
So the city of Karth is is also 
really amazing. 

1359
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,400
I wonder what Lomas thinks of 
it. 

1360
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:51,760
No other particular wonder 
there's is almost certainly the 

1361
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,520
most wondrous thing about it 
According to him, but Danny was 

1362
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,960
really blown away by it. 
I kind of doubt he saw anything 

1363
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,760
like it, though. 
ET might be something that 

1364
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,160
Trump's it, and if he saw 
Valyria then that might be 

1365
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,480
another one that does. 
But what I mean by the reason 

1366
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:09,880
it's so impressive is that it's 
been a mostly uninterrupted, 

1367
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:17,040
massively wealthy place that's 
been so for eons with a an 

1368
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:19,120
entrenched hierarchy that's been
there just as long. 

1369
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,560
So they've just been growing fat
and rich for so long and just 

1370
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,240
outdoing each other with it's an
ultra wealthy place that has 

1371
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,680
been ultra wealthy for so long. 
Like, imagine the gilding on top

1372
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:35,160
of gilding on top of gem 
encrusted, gem encrusted 

1373
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,880
gilding. 
If you just like, this is what 

1374
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,320
rich people do with their extra 
money, They just put another 

1375
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,920
layer of gilding on it, right? 
He's like, what am I going to 

1376
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:44,760
do? 
Well, I have all this money, 

1377
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,360
Let's let's make our place 
fancy. 

1378
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,640
Well, how do we do that? 
Well, let's outdo other rich guy

1379
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:51,480
that lives down the street and 
they just keep outdoing each 

1380
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,560
other with displays of wealth. 
And this has been going on for 

1381
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,600
thousands of years. 
So yeah, it's pretty insane. 

1382
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,320
Like, Danny thinks Zarro's 
palace makes Illyrio's Mance 

1383
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:03,960
look like a quote. 
Swineherd's hovel, Illyrio's 

1384
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:05,840
mats. 
The guy with rings on every 

1385
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,640
finger jet, like, more precious 
than the last. 

1386
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:11,080
The guy that. 
Yeah, I mean, this guy is 

1387
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,120
ridiculously wealthy, but Zara 
apparently has orders of 

1388
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,280
magnitude more wealthy. 
And this palace is the size of a

1389
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,960
market town. 
The palace the size of a town. 

1390
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:19,280
Yeah. 
But it's the walls that he 

1391
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,360
marked as the wonders that 
really says something like this 

1392
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,160
was not more impressive to him 
than the walls, which is like, 

1393
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,960
wow, yeah, it's really, really 
must be substantially expensive 

1394
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,000
walls here. 
So the walls of Constantinople 

1395
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,440
are maybe our best real world 
parallel. 

1396
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,520
Constantinople actually has a 
lot in common with Karth. 

1397
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:42,000
Istanbul, not Constantinople. 
Yeah, Istanbul. 

1398
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,960
That's right. 
Constantinople was famous for 

1399
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,200
its walls, and there have been 
so many walls around. 

1400
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:49,480
I looked this up. 
This is kind of funny. 

1401
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:50,800
Check this out. 
There was a wall when it was 

1402
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:51,800
founded. 
We don't know what that was 

1403
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:52,520
called. 
But then there were the 

1404
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,160
Constantinian walls, the 
Theodosian walls, the Black 

1405
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:01,120
Herni walls, the sea walls, the 
Golden Horn wall, the Prepontus 

1406
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,720
wall, the Anastasian wall and 
the walls of Galata. 

1407
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,680
These are all walls at 
Constantinople before Istanbul. 

1408
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,240
So it's a valuable location, 
extremely rich from trade. 

1409
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,319
It's settled in ancient times. 
It's not a world wonder, 

1410
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,160
Constantinople isn't, but it's 
yeah, it's it's a very similar 

1411
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,240
situation where it sits, sits in
a really rich natural port. 

1412
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,120
Location controls, trade. 
The carvings all the way around 

1413
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,040
the wall remind me of one of the
modern world wonders that I've 

1414
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:31,080
seen. 
It's not that modern. 

1415
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,479
It was built in what like the 
year 1000 or something was Angor

1416
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,479
Watt. 
So it wasn't ancient, but it's 

1417
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,319
not modern either. 
It's kind of in that tweener 

1418
01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:40,359
location. 
Angor Watt is a huge palace 

1419
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:42,840
complex in Cambodia. 
Like I said, it's beautiful. 

1420
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,840
It's astonishing. 
There's just carvings all around

1421
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,479
it, just bass reliefs, just 
everywhere. 

1422
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:50,040
It's just impressive. 
So many of them. 

1423
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:52,439
It's like the size of a city 
block, right? 

1424
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:53,960
Am I? 
Yeah, it's enormous. 

1425
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:58,080
A massive structure that's 
ornately designed all around the

1426
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,080
whole thing. 
Yeah, and Cambodia is is a is 

1427
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:05,120
benefiting greatly from new 
satellite technology, kind of 

1428
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,359
like the jungles of the Amazon 
which they're using. 

1429
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,960
They can now use lasers to 
discover ancient ruins by like 

1430
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,800
looking for density in the 
jungle because they can find 

1431
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,680
stone that way. 
And there's like 2000 temples in

1432
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:23,399
Cambodia, only about 500 of them
have been excavated, but it's 

1433
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:25,479
only in the last like 20-30 
years that a lot of these have 

1434
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:26,960
been revealed. 
So they're just just now getting

1435
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,640
to it. 
That's also where the original 

1436
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,520
Tomb Raider with Angelina Jolie 
was shot, because those temples 

1437
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,680
just look so cool. 
They look like a they look like 

1438
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:36,120
something that would be fitting 
for that. 

1439
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,560
So anyway, it's kind of things I
think of when I think of this. 

1440
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,800
You know, this is making me 
think of another factor of what 

1441
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,359
might be chosen as a as a wonder
is it is rolled up in a couple 

1442
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:49,160
of things, but how remote the 
location is, right? 

1443
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:54,840
Like you got to travel far 
through wilderness to finally 

1444
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,800
come upon the wall, right? 
And Karth is kind of the same 

1445
01:09:58,800 --> 01:09:59,760
way. 
I guess it's a little easy to 

1446
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:01,920
get there by ship, but it's 
surrounded by a massive desert, 

1447
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,440
true. 
And so not only does it maybe 

1448
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:08,440
add some contrast when you have 
to go on this great journey to 

1449
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:11,760
get to the place, but also think
what it took to build the place 

1450
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,360
given how isolated it is, like 
in the middle of the jungle, how

1451
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,640
do they get all the people and 
supplies there and feed them 

1452
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:20,240
while they were working on it 
and everything? 

1453
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,800
It's just a massive undertaking.
It I I'm just so impressed with 

1454
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,640
how some of these real world 
things were built, especially 

1455
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,920
before computers and steel. 
There, I knew this is like 

1456
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:34,200
people. 
Like thinking about it and 

1457
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,680
breaking her back in the sun all
day, you know? 

1458
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:40,160
So already you all can see how 
George was very inspired by a 

1459
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,400
lot of real world wonders. 
There's already several strong 

1460
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:44,960
parallels and that's going to 
continue. 

1461
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:50,400
It's also not just the exact 
edifices, the exact wonders, but

1462
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:52,720
kind of the purpose of them. 
Like there's there's there tend 

1463
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,200
to be categories here like a lot
of these are built for defense 

1464
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,640
or religious purposes or 
authority purposes or for just 

1465
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:04,680
getting around like the roads 
and the bridges expansion of 

1466
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,280
Creek connection like 
connectivity so authority, 

1467
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,000
religion, connectivity and 
defense. 

1468
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,400
And those things often overlap 
like authority and religion go 

1469
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,200
hand in hand. 
Let's be honest, like those two 

1470
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,680
things are very connected. 
Like people use religion to 

1471
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,280
control and use. 
Yeah, that. 

1472
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,000
Well, we all know that. 
I don't have to explain that 

1473
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,000
one. 
One of the people who mentions 

1474
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,680
Karth is Penny of all people. 
She brings it up and says we 

1475
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,200
can, you know, she she kind of 
tries to pull a Jora with Tyrion

1476
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:31,680
where where Jora tries to get 
Danny. 

1477
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,680
Just let's just go east and 
leave all this behind. 

1478
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,440
Penny is kind of the same. 
She's like, let's go to Karth. 

1479
01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:38,840
They have fancy cool walls 
there. 

1480
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,280
You've heard of that, right? 
And Terence's like, I'll just 

1481
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,600
read about it in Lomas book. 
I don't need to go that way. 

1482
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:45,400
I got. 
I didn't mean to come this Far 

1483
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,320
East. 
Yeah, I'm not going farther. 

1484
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:52,520
To be fair, Lomas Long Strider 
didn't have Casterly Rock to 

1485
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:58,400
claim, you know, so he's he's 
got a claim to some big which 

1486
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,320
which arguably is a wonder if 
it's like well screw seeing the 

1487
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:05,640
wonders I might own one so let's
let's move on to that yeah. 

1488
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:08,360
Anyway. 
To be fair, on the other side of

1489
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,760
that coin, Lomas didn't have 
Cersei to escape, right, as far 

1490
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,120
as we know. 
As far as we know, yeah. 

1491
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:15,920
Yeah, he didn't. 
He didn't. 

1492
01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:18,320
Maybe he maybe he had a wife he 
really didn't like. 

1493
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:20,080
Yeah. 
Or maybe Lomas is a maybe Lomas 

1494
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:21,080
is a woman. 
No, I don't think so. 

1495
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:21,880
I think it says he. 
Yeah. 

1496
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,560
But anyway, no, you know, he 
should have been Lomas. 

1497
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,760
He should have been Romas, 
because he's Roman everywhere. 

1498
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,800
Romas wrong. 
Strider, you know. 

1499
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,320
No, no, he roam. 
He He strided Right. 

1500
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:34,240
He. 
Strode, Right. 

1501
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:35,200
He Strode, right. 
It's not. 

1502
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:36,600
That was a shoe company. 
He was a secret. 

1503
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:37,480
He. 
Was a secret. 

1504
01:12:37,480 --> 01:12:39,760
Strong. 
He's Lomas strong. 

1505
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:45,360
Strong striker, strong writer. 
He is a strong writer, yeah. 

1506
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:50,440
Anita writes that Karth might be
another example of just like we 

1507
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:52,480
said, it might be the the the 
wondrous of Karth. 

1508
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,320
Wondrousness of Karth itself 
might add to why the walls were 

1509
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:57,720
chosen, but it's quite possible 
they'd be chosen anyway. 

1510
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,040
Real quick, I could follow up 
the The way Karth presents 

1511
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,600
itself to Lomas might also add 
to him choosing it as a wonder. 

1512
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,840
It seems like. 
It does it on its own anyway, 

1513
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,600
but the people there are like, 
oh, you're naming wonders of the

1514
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,600
world. 
Well, let me show you all the 

1515
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,840
reasons you should choose us. 
Here's some foods, Stay in our 

1516
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:16,240
Mans. 
You know, like if he was 

1517
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,760
welcomed and greeted and treated
to the the wonders of the city, 

1518
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,760
he's more likely to choose it as
a wonderful city. 

1519
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:23,840
That's true. 
They want to, yeah. 

1520
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:25,480
They want to get famous. 
You know, they're like, yeah, 

1521
01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:27,520
let's let's wine and dine. 
This guy's not like we can't 

1522
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:28,640
afford it. 
We're rich as hell. 

1523
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,360
Yeah. 
They have a certain amount of 

1524
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:31,600
pride. 
They want to show off their 

1525
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:32,800
wealth. 
Clearly so. 

1526
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,120
We saw like when Danny was 
there, they were very proud of 

1527
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,960
it, like they were all Carth, 
most ancient city. 

1528
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:39,520
They were so proud of their 
city. 

1529
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,080
That's that's true. 
So that that that's probably the

1530
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,560
attitude Lomas met as well, even
though it was probably hundreds 

1531
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:49,000
of years before Karth is known. 
Is is is somewhat famous for 

1532
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,920
being somewhat static how it's 
been this way for so long so 

1533
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:54,920
that it would make sense that it
would still have that attitude. 

1534
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:56,920
But let's move on to the Titan 
of Bravos. 

1535
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:01,040
Let's have its quote. 
With his proud head and fiery 

1536
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:06,000
eyes looming close to 400 feet 
above the sea, the Titan is a 

1537
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,680
fortress of a type never seen 
before or since. 

1538
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:14,840
Passed in the form of the huge, 
giant straddling 2 seamounts. 

1539
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:19,000
The Titan's legs and lower torso
are black granite, originally a 

1540
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,920
natural stone archway, carved 
and shaped by three generations 

1541
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,720
of sculptors and stone Masons, 
and wrapped in a pleated bronze 

1542
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:33,080
skirt above the waist. 
The Colossus is bronze with 

1543
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:37,480
green dyed hemp for hair. 
When seen from the sea for the 

1544
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:42,000
first time, the Titan is a sight
terrifying to behold. 

1545
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:46,840
His eyes are huge beacon fires 
lighting the way for returning 

1546
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,520
the ships back inside the 
lagoon. 

1547
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:55,200
Within his bronze body are halls
and chambers, murder holes and 

1548
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,960
arrow slits, such that any 
vessel that dared to force the 

1549
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,640
passage would surely be 
destroyed. 

1550
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,800
Enemy ships can easily be 
steered onto the rocks by the 

1551
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:10,480
Watchmen inside the Titan, and 
stones and pots of burning pitch

1552
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,320
can be dropped onto the decks of
any that attempt to pass between

1553
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:19,400
the Titan's legs without leave. 
This has seldom been necessary, 

1554
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:22,280
however. 
Not since the century of Blood 

1555
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:28,200
has any enemy been so rash as to
attempt to provoke the Titan's 

1556
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:30,400
wrath. 
Love that detail. 

1557
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:33,240
There's something very cool 
about the Titan in that it it it

1558
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,840
encapsulates several of the 
wonder types at once. 

1559
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:41,120
It's both for defense, but it's 
also a lighthouse, and it's also

1560
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,800
just a really cool statue. 
So there's a little bit of the 

1561
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,480
authority element there too. 
Not so much the religious 

1562
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:48,760
aspect, but it also guards the 
past. 

1563
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:51,360
So it is sort of a travel thing.
It doesn't extend travel, but it

1564
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,320
protects the existing travel. 
It's you can get in if you're 

1565
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:55,680
allowed, you can't if you're 
not. 

1566
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:59,280
And if you seek the protection 
of Bravos via ship and you're a 

1567
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:01,560
friendly ship, you can use it as
a refuge. 

1568
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,040
So that's kind of neat. 
And the the natural stone 

1569
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:07,560
archway added to over time is 
really cool. 3 generations of 

1570
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:09,560
sculptors and stone Masons, 
That's awesome. 

1571
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,720
I love the the torches and each 
eye seen from far off. 

1572
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,000
We talked about how cars just 
emerging out of the desert would

1573
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,040
look really impressive. 
Or the wall, But this one is, as

1574
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:21,440
it says, on a different level 
because it's it looks like a 

1575
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:23,000
being. 
It looks, it's it's 

1576
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:25,680
anthropomorphized. 
That's a hard word. 

1577
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,840
And if you had never seen it 
before, you'd be like, oh hey, 

1578
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,200
so this is one that Lomas, when 
he saw immediately, might have 

1579
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,320
been already been like, this is 
a very strong candidate for the 

1580
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,840
Wanderers list, just from the 
distant, the distance. 

1581
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,280
And then he gets closer to it. 
He realizes just how big it is. 

1582
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:43,600
He probably read about it in 
advance. 

1583
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:47,280
Bravos not at all remote, at 
least probably not in his era, 

1584
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,600
Certainly isn't now. 
It's the most powerful, the Free

1585
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,160
Cities these days and ships go 
back and forth from it 

1586
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:56,120
constantly better going to 
Westeros and elsewhere. 

1587
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:59,160
So Bravos is just known 
worldwide. 

1588
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,240
It's it's there was a time when 
it wasn't. 

1589
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,200
But we're pretty sure Lomas 
didn't live in that era. 

1590
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:08,320
And the green hair with the with
the ropes, that's just really 

1591
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:09,720
neat too. 
That's just a fun detail. 

1592
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:11,440
I don't know where George got 
that idea from. 

1593
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:13,960
I don't know of any, like, where
that idea comes from. 

1594
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,920
Like the bronze, like the Statue
of Liberty turned kind of green.

1595
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:18,760
Like bronze turns green over 
time, I guess. 

1596
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,920
And maybe that's where the green
idea came from. 

1597
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:22,840
I don't know copper. 
Turns green, maybe bronze, says 

1598
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:23,800
2. 
Oh yeah, you're right. 

1599
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,600
Copper, I mean bronze is copper 
is made from bronze and tin. 

1600
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,760
So sort of stand to reason, but 
I don't know that for sure. 

1601
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,280
I wonder how long that would 
last? 

1602
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:36,680
How Mil Dewey it would get no 
like the moisture and the 

1603
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,520
exposure to the elements if it 
if they have to, if they have to

1604
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,760
maintain, if they have to repair
replenish the hemp hair every 

1605
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:44,000
now. 
And yeah, the hair you would 

1606
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,400
think for sure would have to be,
but maybe let me say the other 

1607
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:48,360
stuff. 
That's just how good hemp is. 

1608
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:51,800
It could last for eons. 
It could last for thousands of 

1609
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:52,800
years. 
Still, it can last. 

1610
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,920
At least 420 years. 
Yeah, Happy Belated 420. 

1611
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:02,960
It's green already, Yeah, yeah, 
it's got the color. 

1612
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,840
So the real life comparison is 
pretty straightforward. 

1613
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,160
It's the Colossus of Rhodes. 
Sean already touched on it 

1614
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:09,360
briefly. 
It was built. 

1615
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,720
It finished in 280 BC. 
They started it in 292, so it 

1616
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:17,520
took 12 years. 
The the Titan of Braavos took a 

1617
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,600
lot longer, but it was not built
consecutively. 

1618
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:26,160
Apparently the Colossus was 
built after the city defeated 

1619
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:29,280
Demetrius, the besieger, someone
whose name has come up several 

1620
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,800
times in the history of history.
Westeros because he's got such a

1621
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:35,840
cool name and he was a big name 
in this era. 

1622
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,880
The post Alexander the Great 
era, he left. 

1623
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:42,440
He abandoned his siege partly 
because his father called him 

1624
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:46,240
off to do something else more 
related. 

1625
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:49,480
Attack some other place, I 
forget which, but Demetrius had 

1626
01:18:49,480 --> 01:18:51,760
to leave in a hurry. 
He left behind a lot of siege 

1627
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,480
equipment which was repurposed 
into the closet. 

1628
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,520
They took it all and melted it 
down and made the colossus. 

1629
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,600
It was so it was like a victory 
statue. 

1630
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:03,040
It was of their patron God, 
Helios and was 108 feet high. 

1631
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:05,400
So that's 33 meters. 
So the colossus, I mean. 

1632
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:09,760
So the Titan of Braavos? 
Quite a bit taller, quite a bit 

1633
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,600
taller. 
So Demetrius really wasn't 

1634
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:17,600
sieging him there, I guess. 
No, he he be leaving, not 

1635
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:18,440
besieging. 
He was. 

1636
01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:20,440
He was besieging before that 
but. 

1637
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,400
The Titan of Braavos is about 
400 feet tall, right? 

1638
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:27,440
Or that's that's our 
approximation, which 

1639
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:30,160
incidentally, that's about the 
size of the tallest statue in 

1640
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:33,840
the real world, which was only 
built 15 ish years ago. 

1641
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:36,400
And it's so preposterously 
large. 

1642
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:39,720
I would not have believed it if 
like someone filmed it in a 

1643
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:42,400
movie or showed me a picture. 
I would have thought it was 

1644
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:45,600
Photoshop or CGI. 
I just, it's crazy. 

1645
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,640
It's like literally four times 
bigger than the Empire State or 

1646
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:50,880
not the Empire State, but the 
Statue of Liberty, it's probably

1647
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:52,720
two or three times bigger than 
Empire State Building. 

1648
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,560
And it's just this guy. 
It's used, I guess, one of the 

1649
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,120
founders of modern India, you 
know? 

1650
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:00,680
Yeah, he was the. 
Statue of Unity. 

1651
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:02,720
Yeah, he was connected to 
Gandhi, yeah. 

1652
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:07,680
Yeah, I don't know. 
I'm just all you should Google 

1653
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:09,760
it. 
I just can't believe it's it's. 

1654
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:11,280
So freaking bad. 
You're right, Sean. 

1655
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:13,520
And it's like what? 
And you're and I think it was 

1656
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:16,640
only finished in 2018. 
I think it started in 2013 and 

1657
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,200
it's it's pretty new where else 
it was being. 

1658
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,920
There's a there's another statue
that's similarly large. 

1659
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:23,760
It's one thing is that they 
measure statues. 

1660
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:25,400
They didn't. 
They include like the base or 

1661
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:29,640
the pedestal or whatever, But 
the spring statue, the physical 

1662
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,280
human form is almost the same 
size. 

1663
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:36,040
You know, maybe 80% the size, 
but it doesn't have nearly the 

1664
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:38,200
size of the pedestal. 
But it's also preposterously 

1665
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:40,200
large. 
But one thing I want to point 

1666
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:44,000
out is this Titan Bravos was 
built with no computers and no 

1667
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,000
steel and. 
All the things that would. 

1668
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:48,640
Take in the modern world to 
build these massive statues. 

1669
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:50,560
They supposedly did it without 
that so. 

1670
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:52,200
There's like concrete if it took
a little. 

1671
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,440
Extra long. 
Yeah, now we've said concrete is

1672
01:20:54,440 --> 01:20:56,520
an old substance, but modern 
concrete is a lot better than 

1673
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:57,920
old concrete. 
Yeah, so it. 

1674
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,440
Is reinforced with steel and all
these other things they can, 

1675
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,960
yeah. 
So as you said, Sean, the Titan 

1676
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,280
or the Colossus of Rhodes, by 
the way, Titan is a Greek word. 

1677
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:10,080
It's kind of appropriate for 
George to use that term, given 

1678
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:13,240
that it relates to a Greek 
wonder. 

1679
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:17,840
It was of their patron God, 
Helios, the sun God, and it like

1680
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:20,480
it stood for only 54 years 
because an earthquake snapped it

1681
01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:23,520
at the knees and they were too 
superstitious to rebuild it. 

1682
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,600
They're like, well, the 
earthquake is from the gods, so 

1683
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:28,480
let's not put that back. 
Oracle told them. 

1684
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,000
Or something? 
They asked the Oracle. 

1685
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:31,400
The Oracle was like, Nah, don't 
do that. 

1686
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:36,200
And even though Rhodes had 
earthquakes like twice a 

1687
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:39,400
century, like kind of like 
clockwork. 

1688
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:43,640
But Nope, it's the gods. 
He just that's when he wakes up.

1689
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:48,000
It's just snoring maybe. 
The Oracle is just a wise 

1690
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:49,560
person. 
You just have to build it again.

1691
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,240
You took up so many resources. 
Cut it out. 

1692
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,040
Stop it. 
Yeah, well, the Oracle was 

1693
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,440
definitely wise when Alexander 
Great threatened to kill them if

1694
01:21:55,440 --> 01:21:57,320
they didn't give the Oracle he 
wanted. 

1695
01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:01,480
So, you know, that's the form of
wisdom, old wisdom. 

1696
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:04,640
Like, I die if I don't do this. 
OK, I'll do that. 

1697
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,400
Yeah. 
And yeah. 

1698
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:10,640
So Sean's also pointed out that 
it was still there for 8:00, 100

1699
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:12,240
years. 
There were still people going to

1700
01:22:12,240 --> 01:22:14,880
see the collapsed colossus for 
800 years after. 

1701
01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:17,800
It was just lying on the ground.
And there's a quote about it. 

1702
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:18,760
Here we go. 
This is neat. 

1703
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:24,480
This statue, 56 years after it 
was erected, was thrown down by 

1704
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:28,320
an earthquake. 
But even as it lies, it excites 

1705
01:22:28,440 --> 01:22:32,760
our wonder and admiration. 
Few men can clasp the thumb in 

1706
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:37,040
their arms, and its fingers are 
larger than most statues. 

1707
01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:42,360
Where the limbs are broken 
asunder, vast caverns are seen 

1708
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:45,960
yawning in the interior. 
That was written by plenty. 

1709
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,360
The elder the the. 
He just keeps coming up in our 

1710
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,120
episodes. 
That's the same guy who who 

1711
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,160
volcanic eruptions. 
A certain type of them are named

1712
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:53,760
after the guy who died in 
Vesuvius. 

1713
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:58,280
So this couldn't happen with the
Titan of Bravos 'cause if it was

1714
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:00,000
snapped at the knees, it would 
fall into the sea. 

1715
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,120
It wouldn't be sitting there for
anyone to see it afterwards. 

1716
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:05,320
But it looks like there just 
aren't earthquakes there. 

1717
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:07,520
It's been there for like 400 
years or so. 

1718
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:08,840
We don't know how long, but 
centuries. 

1719
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:10,720
So it's probably either strong 
enough to held up to an 

1720
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,600
earthquake or it's just not on a
fault line or yeah. 

1721
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,240
Also, by the way, I don't know 
how deep the sea is around 

1722
01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,480
bravos, but you might still be 
able to see it it's so bad. 

1723
01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:19,960
That's true. 
Maybe it would stick out. 

1724
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:22,560
Still have his arms. 
That would be kind of neat. 

1725
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:24,240
Like, yeah, just one arm 
sticking out. 

1726
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:27,040
The Statue of Liberty and Planet
of the Apes, right? 

1727
01:23:27,440 --> 01:23:30,800
Yeah. 
So we also backing up just a 

1728
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,200
little bit, Sean, you mentioned 
the Spring Temple Buddha that's 

1729
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:35,360
like the second highest statue 
in the world right now. 

1730
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:39,640
It's that was finished in 2008 
and it's I got 1000 tons of 

1731
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:42,080
copper in it and it's 420 feet 
tall. 

1732
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,160
So you know we were recording 
this on 4/21, so almost almost 

1733
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:49,160
the day after there. 
Nina says if Lomos was riding 

1734
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:51,440
and travelling during the 
Valyrian Empire, would have been

1735
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:55,000
pretty bold to highlight the 
Titan of Bravos, because the 

1736
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:59,080
Titan, you know, the Bravosi 
were like breakaway slaves from 

1737
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:00,480
Valyria. 
That's how the whole nation was 

1738
01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:01,960
founded. 
The city State was founded by 

1739
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:06,520
escaped slaves, and so it's kind
of flaunting the existence of 

1740
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:08,160
this play. 
So you kind of have to assume 

1741
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:11,160
that it probably didn't happen. 
He probably wrote about it after

1742
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:15,520
the unmasking of Uthero, which 
we already kind of our favorite 

1743
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:17,480
guess is Century of Blood 
anyway, which fits this. 

1744
01:24:17,480 --> 01:24:20,440
But in case we're wrong about 
that, we still want to guess 

1745
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:24,040
that, well, it it probably still
wasn't like 300 years before the

1746
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,960
Century of Blood, it would have 
been maybe 2 or 100 years 

1747
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:28,480
before. 
You know, that is another 

1748
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:32,360
purpose, I guess, of a wonder 
like these. 

1749
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:37,200
In addition to like travel and 
connection and authority and 

1750
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:41,640
defense. 
It's also sort of a an 

1751
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:45,520
exemplification of the the the 
potential of your culture and 

1752
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:46,880
your people. 
Like that's true. 

1753
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:51,240
Yeah, we built this Titan you 
you had us enslaved and we 

1754
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,480
achieved this greatness. 
Don't underestimate us. 

1755
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:54,600
That's a good point. 
Yeah. 

1756
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:58,280
Like that is that is often what 
a wonder communicates to the 

1757
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:00,840
world is shows you what this 
civilization is capable of and 

1758
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:02,880
and that's something that can be
very proud of having done it. 

1759
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:04,520
Yeah, that's a great point. 
Great point. 

1760
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:07,440
Anita has. 
Maybe Lomas was getting back at 

1761
01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:10,000
the if the Valyrians did, like, 
refuse to let him in for 

1762
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:12,360
whatever reason, then then he 
was getting back at them. 

1763
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:13,600
He was. 
He's like, Oh yeah, well, I'm 

1764
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,120
going to talk about the Titan of
Bravos then, you know, so that 

1765
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,520
that's the third of three that 
are defensive so far, right? 

1766
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:21,040
The wall, the triple walls, and 
the Titan. 

1767
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:24,080
Those are all defensive. 
Although as we saw with the 

1768
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,840
Titan, that's not the only 
purpose of it. 

1769
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:31,120
The next one is decidedly not 
the Palace with 1000 rooms. 

1770
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,080
Here's a brief quote. 
The greatest of these cities was

1771
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:39,600
Sarnath of the Tall Towers, 
where the High King dwelt in his

1772
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:44,240
fabled palace with 1000 rooms. 
Now given we don't know what the

1773
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:48,080
8th and 9th wonders are, it's 
possible one of one of those was

1774
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:49,840
destroyed. 
But this is the only one we know

1775
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,840
for sure was destroyed. 
And I say I say probably because

1776
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,000
yeah, we're not sure, but in in 
in. 

1777
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,200
In a way this is a reverse of 
the real world, because in the 

1778
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:02,200
real world, only one of the 
original 7 Ancient Wonders of 

1779
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:04,200
the World stands. 
It happens to be the oldest one,

1780
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:06,800
the Great Pyramid. 
But in our case we have only one

1781
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,720
of them destroyed, rather than 
the than all but one. 

1782
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,320
And to be clear, it wouldn't 
have been destroyed, we don't 

1783
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,880
think when he visited it. 
True, true. 

1784
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,040
True. 
No, I don't think possible at 

1785
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:18,080
all based on what he said about 
it. 

1786
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:19,960
I don't think it was destroyed. 
Yeah, I don't either. 

1787
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:25,880
And thinking ahead, though, the 
wall might come down during the 

1788
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:29,160
books, so it might be one that 
is now down. 

1789
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:31,280
It's not currently down, but by 
the time the series is over, 

1790
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,480
maybe two of the wonders are 
destroyed and who knows, maybe 

1791
01:26:33,480 --> 01:26:35,880
another one. 
I mean, we've pointed out that 

1792
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:37,480
we're in a new age of gods and 
wonders. 

1793
01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:40,240
It's like the age of heroes come
again, a time for wonders to 

1794
01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:41,800
rise and fall, perhaps, 
potentially. 

1795
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,840
So we'll see about that. 
What Lomas's work might be a 

1796
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,760
snapshot of a time before a new 
era. 

1797
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:53,280
And that's makes it even more 
special which helps it preserve 

1798
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:57,160
the memory of what things were 
there and in wonders way made by

1799
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,520
man. 
We have perhaps one of the only 

1800
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:04,480
writings in Westeros in you 
know, cut the common tongue 

1801
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:10,080
about this palace of 1000 rooms 
which will fade from world 

1802
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,960
memory if people don't record it
right now. 

1803
01:27:13,440 --> 01:27:16,120
We know this is also perhaps the
one we know the least about. 

1804
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:17,520
It's just the palace of the 1000
rooms. 

1805
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:18,800
It's fancy. 
It was amazing. 

1806
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:22,560
But like, in what way? 
It's the mark of a high 

1807
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:25,320
civilization, honestly. 
This one, if you compare it to 

1808
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:28,240
the real world, George likes to 
go big. 

1809
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,880
The wall is maybe 
unrealistically large, but 1000 

1810
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,480
rooms, that's not, that's not 
that big for for a palace 

1811
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:37,400
compared to the real world. 
I mean, it's not small by any 

1812
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:39,280
means. 
Like the ancient royal palace of

1813
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:45,840
Nassos on Crete was started in 
2000 BC and reached its peak in 

1814
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:50,880
1500 BC and it had 1300 rooms, I
mean and that's that's 1500 BC 

1815
01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:53,160
so. 
They were small rooms. 

1816
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,760
They were rooms fit for cretins.
You look at the square count. 

1817
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:00,640
Every closet, they were really 
cheating. 

1818
01:28:00,680 --> 01:28:03,400
Yeah, you look at the square 
footage and the palace with 1000

1819
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,000
rooms, it's bigger and better 
than every other palace you 

1820
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:09,120
think of just as. 
Sean They don't cheat and Crete.

1821
01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:17,280
So Mary Renault, an author I've 
referred to a few times, shout 

1822
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,280
her out again. 
She depicted this ancient royal 

1823
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,760
palace of Nassos in her 
historical fiction novel The 

1824
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,200
Bull from the Sea, which I've 
read along with. 

1825
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:26,440
It's it's a sequel. 
The Bull from the Sea is a 

1826
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:29,240
sequel to The King Must Die, 
which of course, I've read that 

1827
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,440
too. 
Both novels follow the life of 

1828
01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:36,520
Theseus, the the legendary 
mythical king Theseus. 

1829
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,400
So really good. 
She does a really good job of 

1830
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:42,240
drawing out the Super ancient 
Greek world with that and in and

1831
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,440
in other her other works as well
where she mostly writes about 

1832
01:28:45,440 --> 01:28:47,560
ancient Greece. 
So the royal quarter of the city

1833
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:51,600
of Alexandria was said by the 
geographer, ancient geographer 

1834
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:54,640
Strabo, to be quite literally 
1/4 of the city. 

1835
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,520
Normally when you hear the word 
quarter quarters, it's a living 

1836
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,440
space. 
It's not actually 1/4, but in 

1837
01:29:00,440 --> 01:29:03,320
this case it really was 1/4 of 
the whole city, the royal. 

1838
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:05,800
So the people get one 3/4 of the
city. 

1839
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,640
The royal palace alone accounts 
for 1/4 of Alexandria. 

1840
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:10,440
That's a huge amount of the 
city. 

1841
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,880
Hadrian, who's come, has also 
come up a lot in the last few 

1842
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:16,040
weeks because of his wall and 
stuff like that. 

1843
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:19,480
He had a villa of over 30 
buildings on 250 acres, but 

1844
01:29:19,480 --> 01:29:22,280
there's not a room count because
it's actually not excavated. 

1845
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:24,040
It's still unexcavated to this 
point. 

1846
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:26,800
So we don't know how many rooms 
there are, but it could easily 

1847
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:28,200
be more than 1000 rooms. 
Maybe not. 

1848
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:33,200
The current Royal Palace of 
Madrid has 3418 rooms. 

1849
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:36,600
It's a terrorist site. 
It's not really used as a royal 

1850
01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:38,720
pal. 
I mean, the King of Spain 

1851
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:40,400
doesn't have a lot of power 
these days. 

1852
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,920
It's so crazy to think about 
that construction. 

1853
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:44,720
Like what? 
What it would take to piece that

1854
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:52,080
together and maintain it And if 
you visited, I don't know, maybe

1855
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:55,360
some of the rooms are just empty
storage closets, but I'm just 

1856
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,920
trying to think how long it 
would take to just go in each 

1857
01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,360
room. 
If you could just get from 1:00 

1858
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:03,000
room to the next in one minute 
each, it would take you days and

1859
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:04,680
days, you know. 
Can you imagine living in a 

1860
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:06,600
place where you haven't been in 
all the rooms? 

1861
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:09,240
I've lived this place 20 years 
and there's rooms I've never 

1862
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:10,440
seen. 
There's rooms I don't even know 

1863
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:15,040
about, like it's a world wonder 
just to draw the blueprints for 

1864
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:17,840
that place, let alone the actual
place. 

1865
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:20,960
There's also the Yeah, but wait,
there's more. 

1866
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:22,880
Yeah. 
I guess it would be like if you 

1867
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:26,200
went to 600 homes and went in 
every room of those homes, you 

1868
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:27,240
know what I mean? 
Like if you. 

1869
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:30,120
Split and we split that by 5:00 
rooms in a house, which is 

1870
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,000
really small actually, but 
regardless it would be it would 

1871
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:35,200
be going on a survey of a lot of
homes. 

1872
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,440
And that's a great segue to the 
next example, which is the 

1873
01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:40,240
Forbidden City of China, which 
is considered a palace complex. 

1874
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:42,720
Even though it's a city, it's 
called the Forbidden City 

1875
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:47,480
because it's like it's only it's
the Emperor's like domain. 

1876
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:51,400
But it's it's gotten thousands 
of buildings like thousands of 

1877
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:56,000
buildings of 909,999 rooms which
appears to be intentional like 

1878
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:57,720
we're we're not going to go, 
we're going to keep it 1 below 

1879
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:00,240
10,000. 
I don't know why but it's a very

1880
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:02,600
specific number. 
And then Wei Yang Palace which 

1881
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:06,040
was built by Emperor GAO Zhu in 
200 BC was the largest ever. 

1882
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:10,520
It was 11 times the size of 
Vatican City and seven times 

1883
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:13,440
this Forbidden City which has 
9999 rooms. 

1884
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:16,120
It was destroyed though. 
Currently, one of the best 

1885
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:18,800
matches for the Palace of 1000 
rooms is the Patala Palace in 

1886
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:20,760
Tibet, which has exactly 1000 
rooms. 

1887
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:22,920
So there you go, Palace of 1000 
Rooms. 

1888
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:26,160
It used to be the winter 
residence of the Dalai Lama and 

1889
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,320
was included on a list of new 7 
wonders. 

1890
01:31:28,520 --> 01:31:31,400
So some people consider Patala 
Palace modern Wonder of the 

1891
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:34,280
World, although it's not. 
It wasn't built, you know, 

1892
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:36,160
recently, but it's not ancient 
either. 

1893
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:38,440
Did you ever consider that he 
got it wrong? 

1894
01:31:38,440 --> 01:31:40,600
This was a palace with 1000. 
Brooms. 

1895
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:47,080
It's a very clean place, yeah. 
It's a witch's palace, yeah, So 

1896
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:49,320
this would have been an 
interesting visit, unlike a lot 

1897
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:52,400
of the other ones. 
For Lomas, it's not so 

1898
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:55,400
straightforward. 
In some ways it is because back 

1899
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:58,320
when he was travelling, he could
probably just have gone to Kohor

1900
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,080
and taken the Valerian Rd. 
East to Sarnath. 

1901
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:04,520
You know, before the Dothraki 
were over running the area. 

1902
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:07,080
So it might have been relatively
simple, even though it would 

1903
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:09,320
have been a very long journey, a
lot longer than getting to the 

1904
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:11,320
Wall. 
Even if you're considering 

1905
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:12,720
starting in like Old Town to the
Wall. 

1906
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:16,360
Like I think Old Town to the 
Wall is probably no, it's cohort

1907
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,120
of Sarnap is not as far as Old 
Town to the Wall. 

1908
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,520
But anyway, it's it's very long,
and Lomas must have had a lot to

1909
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,840
write about that. 
Like Sarnor as well as when he 

1910
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:30,520
wrote about ET and Karth, 
Sarnoor would have been a he 

1911
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,920
probably compares all these 
places and and we don't know 

1912
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:35,680
which he thought was the 
fanciest or or most impressive, 

1913
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,000
and whether even Valyria would 
have been in the mix for that. 

1914
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:41,080
But it's a sure thing that he 
wrote about it, because he went 

1915
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:44,120
there and this is actually kind 
of ominous. 

1916
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:46,960
This one might have some 
foreshadowing to it. 

1917
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:51,360
Remember how Sarnath was 
destroyed, which is that the 

1918
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:55,840
Dothraki pulled a maneuver like 
they did a feigned retreat and 

1919
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:59,800
suckered the Sarnoor army into a
trap and destroyed it, and then 

1920
01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:03,920
destroyed Sarnath and, well, 
Sarnoor and then all the, you 

1921
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,240
know, surrounding region that 
they hadn't already destroyed. 

1922
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:09,320
I kind of think this might be 
foreshadowed. 

1923
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:12,840
What happens to Highgarden? 
Highgarden is to me the closest 

1924
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,440
thing to Sarnor. 
The kingdom's sarnor of fancy. 

1925
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:21,120
Long running, well built, 
beautiful, very susceptible to 

1926
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,000
burning. 
You know, it's garden, I mean 

1927
01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:28,280
it's full of trees and greenery 
and you know, Danny is not going

1928
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,240
to have the Tyrells on her side,
I don't think. 

1929
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,840
And there could be battles in 
that area. 

1930
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,600
Yeah, like this. 
Highgarden could be a thing of 

1931
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:40,320
the past, just as the wall might
be, or in part. 

1932
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,480
So there's a plant in my flag 
there. 

1933
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,720
Next time someone gets to ask 
George a question, they should 

1934
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:47,600
ask him how many rooms are in 
Highgarden. 

1935
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:49,160
Is it 1000? 
Yeah. 

1936
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:53,880
Actually. 
You know, Ashea and I have tried

1937
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,320
to make an art of what questions
we can ask George R Martin. 

1938
01:33:57,320 --> 01:33:59,160
We've had some success over the 
years. 

1939
01:33:59,480 --> 01:34:02,160
And I would, this is one I 
thought of during this episode, 

1940
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,080
maybe he would answer, how did 
Lomas Long try to go to Valyria 

1941
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:06,800
that might be like within the 
range or something. 

1942
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:08,160
He would. 
It's not that spoilery. 

1943
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:09,200
Or it's not spoilery at all, 
really. 

1944
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,920
He might be willing to answer. 
Yes, I am quite decided that the

1945
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:15,360
next time I get to ask George a 
question, I'm going to ask him 

1946
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:17,200
something about Lomas Long 
Strider. 

1947
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:22,120
So I will workshop it for quite 
a while before I'm at AQ and A. 

1948
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:25,360
It's like you have to be so 
precise with your words, these 

1949
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:28,560
wheels out of every little 
thing, so you have to be very 

1950
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:30,280
precise. 
Maybe it's best to just go 

1951
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:31,760
straight forward. 
Did Lomas Long Strider go to 

1952
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,080
Valyrio when it was before The 
Doom? 

1953
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:36,320
Before the Doom, did he go Blair
before the game? 

1954
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:37,280
Because he could. 
He could just try to. 

1955
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:38,280
I got how he reads a lot as 
well. 

1956
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:39,800
No, it was he. 
It was destroyed. 

1957
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:42,680
Let's talk about the next one, 
The Long Bridge of Atlantis 

1958
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:46,040
quote. 
In time, the lawless city on the

1959
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:51,000
West Bank became such a cesspit 
of crime and depravity that the 

1960
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,640
triarchs had no choice but to 
send their slave soldiers across

1961
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:59,080
the Rhine to restore order and 
some semblance of decency. 

1962
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:02,880
Strong tides and treacherous 
shifting currents made the 

1963
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:07,960
crossings difficult, however, so
after some years, the Triarch 

1964
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:12,200
Velasso, the Munificent 
commanded that a bridge be built

1965
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:16,120
across the Roy. 
Those same tides and currents 

1966
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:21,320
and the river's width made the 
building an epic task requiring 

1967
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:25,160
more than 40 years and many 
millions of honours. 

1968
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:30,280
Priork Velasso did not live to 
see what he had wrought, but 

1969
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:35,160
once completed the Long Bridge 
had no rivals save for the 

1970
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:39,120
Bridge of Dreams in the Roynar 
Festival city of Croyenne. 

1971
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:44,040
Strong enough to support the 
weight of 1000 elephants or so 

1972
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:49,040
it is claimed, the Long Bridge 
of Volantis stands today as the 

1973
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:52,000
longest bridge in all the known 
world. 

1974
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:55,040
And I want to say a moment. 
The art that we have on screen 

1975
01:35:55,280 --> 01:36:01,880
is by Christina K Sugar Light 
Art there, who is often in our 

1976
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,960
live stream chats. 
She did this for us years ago 

1977
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:08,640
for the Loma's longest writer 
episode we were working on and 

1978
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:13,640
finally we are debuting this art
from her, which is lovely. 

1979
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:17,320
Christina Yes, it is very nice. 
Yeah. 

1980
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:19,560
This, this, this episode has 
some great ones. 

1981
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:22,640
And this is, this is definitely 
near the top, if not the top. 40

1982
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:26,360
years is a time we've seen 
before. 

1983
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:29,680
It's the also the length of time
it took to build Harrenhal and 

1984
01:36:30,480 --> 01:36:32,800
some of those other times where 
it says two or three generations

1985
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,640
to build that's could be 40 
years ish. 

1986
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:38,080
The mention of the bridge of 
dream here is really interesting

1987
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:40,280
because it seems to indicate 
that the time the long bridge 

1988
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:44,520
was built, the bridge of dream 
was not broken because when 

1989
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,200
Lomas Longshider would see the 
bridge of dream it was broken. 

1990
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:48,760
There were stone men already on 
it. 

1991
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:50,240
The fogs and humors were already
there. 

1992
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:54,400
So this he wouldn't have been 
able to make that comparison in 

1993
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,600
his lifetime because he didn't 
see a complete bridge of dreams.

1994
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,440
It was it was quite destroyed. 
But it is bring, it does bring 

1995
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:07,640
us back to our discussion about 
Tyrion and and imagining what 

1996
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,520
the Royner was like. 
And if we were doing an all time

1997
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:14,880
wonders of Essos and Westeros 
that some of these things would 

1998
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:18,120
be included because before they 
were destroyed they they sound 

1999
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,000
like they would have been more 
wondrous than some of the things

2000
01:37:20,000 --> 01:37:24,960
that are still around now. 
Now it's a bit ironic with 

2001
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:29,280
almost everything in Volantis. 
The Long Bridge is it's linked 

2002
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:32,400
to the dependence on slavery, 
and it's very much a a thing 

2003
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:36,400
that enables travel and trade 
now, and it's probably a good 

2004
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:40,200
thing mostly. 
But at the time it was purely 

2005
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,720
just as an extension of 
Volantis's authority, and they 

2006
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:46,360
were just trying to dominate the
other side, The West Bank, as 

2007
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:49,040
it's called over here, 'cause it
was there was a city there and 

2008
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:53,840
it was destroyed by Valyria, and
before the rest of the North was

2009
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,280
destroyed before the rest of the
full destruction of the Roinar 

2010
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:59,760
came later. 
So that shows how it was sort of

2011
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:02,840
a military purpose originally, a
dominance purpose of an empire, 

2012
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:05,160
An imperial purpose maybe is the
best way to put it. 

2013
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:09,760
Now there is no empire. 
Volantis is wants to be an 

2014
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:12,360
empire, but they're not. 
You know, they can they can 

2015
01:38:12,360 --> 01:38:15,120
dominate their neighbors, but 
they can't really go that far. 

2016
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,320
So they do have the the, the 
region that the bridge leads to,

2017
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,440
they do have control over. 
But it's still different than 

2018
01:38:21,440 --> 01:38:24,640
its original purpose in that 
it's being used for so much more

2019
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:27,280
than just that. 
It's it's a mostly a commercial 

2020
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:30,360
thing now like there's when we 
see the long bridge when 

2021
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:35,080
Clinton's on it there's 
merchants set up on on its sides

2022
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:38,760
it's just like wall to wall 
businesses and and stuff 

2023
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:41,360
happening. 
So it's definitely far beyond 

2024
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:45,160
just a military thing now, but 
that is what got it built in the

2025
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:47,360
1st place. 
This one like a lot of the like 

2026
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:51,240
like Karth or even easier than 
Karth to get to. 

2027
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:54,560
In fact he may have gone to 
Volantis on his way to Karth 

2028
01:38:55,240 --> 01:39:01,120
because it's just the southern 
coast there of of Essos and lots

2029
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:05,120
of ships going from Volantis to 
wherever and up the Rhine. 

2030
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:08,920
Like he may have gone to Cohor 
then down the river to to 

2031
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:10,480
Volantis. 
This could have been on one 

2032
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:13,440
trip. 
Our best real life comparison 

2033
01:39:13,440 --> 01:39:17,360
might be the Golden Gate Bridge,
but keep in mind that the Golden

2034
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:21,080
Gate Bridge is a suspension 
bridge, which is not at all. 

2035
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:23,560
There's no such thing as a 
suspension bridge in Westeros or

2036
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:25,720
Essos. 
There also aren't Valyrian 

2037
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:27,640
Dragon roads in the real world. 
So there's but they both have 

2038
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:30,480
technologies that don't exist. 
On the other side of the 

2039
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:33,480
parallel, the Golden Gate Bridge
was built in 1937. 

2040
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:36,440
At the time, it was the longest 
and tallest suspension bridge in

2041
01:39:36,440 --> 01:39:37,720
the world. 
It's no longer either. 

2042
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:44,320
The longest is in Turkey, the 
tallest though Sean, you think 

2043
01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:46,760
that might be wrong. 
It's a there's different 

2044
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:48,960
standards. 
There's like length and whether 

2045
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,400
it's a suspension bridge or not.
So you think the longest total, 

2046
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:54,640
the actual longest bridge in the
world is in China, whereas the 

2047
01:39:54,640 --> 01:39:56,840
longest suspension bridge might 
be in Turkey, I think that's 

2048
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,040
that might be it, yeah. 
I'm a little less sure of the 

2049
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,720
longest suspension bridge, but I
know the longest bridge. 

2050
01:40:02,240 --> 01:40:06,280
It's over 100 miles long. 
That goes from bang from 

2051
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:10,000
Shanghai to Beijing 102. 
Miles, that is crazy. 

2052
01:40:10,440 --> 01:40:13,440
Preposterous to me. 
One reason the Golden Gate 

2053
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:16,720
Bridge is so well known is 
because it it was for it's kind 

2054
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:17,840
of like the Empire State 
Building. 

2055
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:21,680
It was for so long, the biggest 
one it was for like 50 ish years

2056
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:25,200
and then all of a sudden for one
reason or another technology and

2057
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:27,200
needs of transportation. 
Like every other year a new one 

2058
01:40:27,200 --> 01:40:30,000
gets built that out does it. 
But for the long, long time, 

2059
01:40:30,480 --> 01:40:33,040
it's interesting that the first 
bridge ever built over a mile 

2060
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:38,160
long was in 1884, and it was 6 
miles long. 

2061
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:39,720
Whoa. 
So that's just one like we're 

2062
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:41,520
going. 
To It was in New Orleans 

2063
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:46,200
interestingly enough fidget goes
just a waterway probably to 

2064
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,520
transport goods maybe in the 
early days of steel and 

2065
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:52,720
railroads and but but I I 
thought that was really 

2066
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:55,240
interesting yeah but yeah the 
tallest bridge they they some 

2067
01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:58,240
measurements are like from the 
base of the structure to the 

2068
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:02,080
height of the structure versus 
from the platform that you 

2069
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:05,120
travel on to the ground 
underneath. 

2070
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:07,280
Like, those are slightly 
different measurements, and 

2071
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:10,760
there's lots of different ways 
you can measure a bridge, But 

2072
01:41:10,760 --> 01:41:14,160
the Golden Gate is probably the 
most iconic in the world, and 

2073
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:16,160
that Chinese one is definitely 
the longest. 

2074
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:18,800
Yeah, it might be in time. 
The Chinese one might overtake 

2075
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:20,680
the Golden Gate. 
But yeah, for the longest time, 

2076
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:22,080
the Golden Gate. 
And probably still holds the 

2077
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:23,240
title. 
It's probably going to lose that

2078
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:26,160
title, but it's the most 
photographed bridge, at least at

2079
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:29,720
least to like Westerners. 
We don't, we don't know for sure

2080
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:31,960
about that. 
But it's another one where the 

2081
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:35,840
natural beauty of the area 
really enhances the the, the 

2082
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,240
whole picture, the whole 
package. 

2083
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:42,520
Getting back to the Long Bridge 
is one thing that helps stand 

2084
01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:45,760
out about it is that it's one of
the ones that we actually see. 

2085
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:47,160
Some of these other ones we 
don't see. 

2086
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:48,680
We've several that we've talked 
about. 

2087
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:51,280
We've only briefly seen or don't
see it all, and some of the ones

2088
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:54,280
that we haven't gotten to we 
won't see or or maybe or haven't

2089
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:59,840
seen and may not ever see, such 
as the Bells of Narvos which is 

2090
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:03,800
Next up quote. 
No account of great Norvas is 

2091
01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:08,280
complete without a mention of 
the city's 3 bells, whose peels 

2092
01:42:08,280 --> 01:42:12,880
govern every aspect of city 
life, telling the norvashi when 

2093
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:18,160
to rise, when to sleep, when to 
work, when to rest, when to take

2094
01:42:18,160 --> 01:42:22,800
arms, when to pray often, and 
even when they are permitted to 

2095
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,880
have carnal relations rather or 
less often. 

2096
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:29,800
If the tales be true, each of 
the bells has its own 

2097
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:34,840
distinctive voice, whose sound 
is known to all true Norvashi. 

2098
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:40,720
The bells bear the names Noom, 
Nara and Nile. 

2099
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:44,280
So 3 ends. 
It's our second set of three 

2100
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:47,000
Carth's triple walls, Norvas's 3
bells. 

2101
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:48,560
Yeah. 
Now this is interesting. 

2102
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:51,640
We talked about how these things
would have seen, been seen when 

2103
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:53,360
you approach the city. 
This would be different 'cause 

2104
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:55,840
you would hear it instead of 
seeing it, he would hear it. 

2105
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:57,520
And that's such a different 
sense. 

2106
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:01,760
That's being sort of well hit 
with wonder. 

2107
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:04,640
You're like, wow, that's really 
loud and clear from really far 

2108
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:07,280
away because they ring often 
there. 

2109
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:09,160
It governs every aspect of city 
life. 

2110
01:43:09,160 --> 01:43:11,480
They ring frequently. 
There's there's basically no 

2111
01:43:11,480 --> 01:43:13,920
chance he wouldn't have heard 
them coming up. 

2112
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:18,000
It's also not that hard to get 
to court to to Norvasc. 

2113
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,280
It's it's on the Rhine, you 
know, so not super remote. 

2114
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:28,080
It's one of the nine Free 
Cities, and he probably heard 

2115
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:29,880
about these bells in advance. 
They're probably somewhat 

2116
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:33,680
famous. 
Bells are very often associated 

2117
01:43:33,680 --> 01:43:37,880
with religion. 
There's a long history in the 

2118
01:43:37,880 --> 01:43:42,200
real world from a variety of 
places all over, east, West, 

2119
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:46,560
north-south, that bells are 
associated with prayer or with, 

2120
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:50,360
you know, waking up in the 
morning or, you know, or warning

2121
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:53,680
the city of defenders. 
There's the the the Bell of the 

2122
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:57,080
Malisters that warns when the 
Ironborn are coming, right. 

2123
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:58,880
That's a good example. 
Now that one's not religious, 

2124
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:01,960
that's pure defense. 
But a lot of them have more than

2125
01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:04,200
one purpose. 
And in this case you have three 

2126
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,080
different bells that you know, 
maybe two of them ringing at one

2127
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:09,560
time means one thing, maybe one 
of them ringing alone means one 

2128
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:11,080
thing, maybe all three of them 
ringing together. 

2129
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:13,360
So there's like they can do 
harmony and melody and so that 

2130
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:16,720
they just George is taking this 
concept and built on it by 

2131
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:19,080
adding just basic musical 
concepts. 

2132
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:22,120
That allows a lot more options 
to you've already got rhythm and

2133
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:24,800
tone, now you've got multiple 
tones, multiple rhythms. 

2134
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:25,960
So it just adds so much more to 
it. 

2135
01:44:25,960 --> 01:44:28,320
It's like it's like 1 instrument
versus 3, right? 

2136
01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:29,680
You can do so much more with 
that. 

2137
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:32,680
The largest real life bell ever 
known as the great belle of 

2138
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:36,440
Damazetti. 
It was 300 tons and made of 

2139
01:44:36,440 --> 01:44:42,000
copper, gold and silver. 
The King of Myanmar gave it to 

2140
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:44,520
the Schwadagon Pagoda of Dagon. 
Dagon. 

2141
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:49,280
Not like not Lovecraft's Dagon, 
but this is the most sacred 

2142
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:52,880
Buddhist pagoda in Myanmar. 
And legend says it was built 

2143
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:55,760
when the Buddha was alive 2500 
years ago. 

2144
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:57,280
So that's that's pretty 
impressive. 

2145
01:44:58,360 --> 01:45:00,920
Now here's a little story and a 
story in reverse. 

2146
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:05,960
The Portuguese warlord Philip 
Debrito sacked this pagoda and 

2147
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:08,840
tried to steal the bell. 
This 300 LB bell. 

2148
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:12,320
Yeah, he's like, let me run off 
with that, shall we? 

2149
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:15,800
But he intended to melt it down 
to make cannons. 

2150
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:19,960
But the boats he tried to carry 
it off with sank, and it's still

2151
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:23,000
in the Bago River to this day. 
That Bill like good luck getting

2152
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:25,520
that out of there. 300 ton? 
You said 300 lbs. 

2153
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:26,760
Did I really? 
Oh my God. 

2154
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:29,120
Yeah, 300 tons. 
Yeah. 300 lbs is nothing, right?

2155
01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:31,360
It's like 300 lbs. 
Like, come on, that's like a 

2156
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:33,520
person, you know, like a large 
person, right? 

2157
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:37,680
Yeah, 300 tons. 
So the reverse part of the story

2158
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:40,840
is the Australian bill. 
Old Pomeran. 

2159
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:46,080
It's it was made after Vienna 
repelled a Turkish Muslim siege 

2160
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:49,560
in the year 1683. 
They captured 200 of the 

2161
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:52,240
invaders cannons and made a bell
from it. 

2162
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:55,440
So you have this this mercenary 
warlord who wanted to make a 

2163
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:59,720
bell into cannons and these guys
made cannons into a bell. 

2164
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:03,440
I did did it in reverse and it's
that's the bell Old Pomeran. 

2165
01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:06,080
Old Pomeran unfortunately is no 
longer around it was destroyed 

2166
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:09,240
and now they have new Pomeran. 
They made a new one in Austrian.

2167
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:13,120
It's something like Josefinishke
Glaka. 

2168
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:15,600
I'm sure I'm butchering. 
That's pernicious, but I love 

2169
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:17,400
that cause it's Glock. 
It's like people talk about 

2170
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:19,240
Glocks, you know, like there's a
lot of rap lyrics. 

2171
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:21,120
You mentioned a Glock and maybe 
some other places, you know, 

2172
01:46:21,120 --> 01:46:23,240
it's like pull out the Glock. 
It's like, yeah, I pull out my 

2173
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:27,320
300, my 200 cannon sized Glock. 
You know, like your gun is small

2174
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:32,760
compared to that. 
There's a bell from 771 common 

2175
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:35,120
era. 
That's 25 tons. 

2176
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:39,080
The bell of King Seong Dock 
that's in South Korea. 

2177
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:42,800
And there's the Great Mingun 
Bell, also in Myanmar. 

2178
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:44,120
Something about Myanmar and 
bells. 

2179
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:45,680
They love their bells in 
Myanmar. 

2180
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:49,640
It's the largest in the world 
recently, but the Chinese 

2181
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:52,200
surpassed it with the bell of 
good luck, which is inside the 

2182
01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:55,480
Folkwan Temple, which is located
near the aforementioned Spring 

2183
01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:59,960
Temple Buddha, which is that 420
foot copper statue that is among

2184
01:46:59,960 --> 01:47:02,240
the tallest in the world. 
So again, you see the 

2185
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:04,400
association with religion, the 
bell is associated with that 

2186
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:07,600
Buddha, So boom. 
Nina points out as well what is 

2187
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,600
probably closer to George's 
personal experience, life 

2188
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:12,760
experience with religion, being 
a Catholic person. 

2189
01:47:12,760 --> 01:47:15,160
A person was raised Catholic. 
He's not a practicing Catholic. 

2190
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,760
He was. 
He was raised Catholic, and 

2191
01:47:18,240 --> 01:47:22,480
prayer bells are a big thing in 
Catholic religion. 

2192
01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:23,960
And of course they are in other 
things, right? 

2193
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:26,400
Bells. 
In these examples we've given, 

2194
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:29,280
we've got bells in a pagoda, 
bells in a cathedral, bells in a

2195
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:30,560
temple. 
Like all these different. 

2196
01:47:30,560 --> 01:47:33,440
And there's surely other ones we
didn't mention, like mosques. 

2197
01:47:33,440 --> 01:47:35,320
But Muslims use prayer bells 
too. 

2198
01:47:35,320 --> 01:47:41,040
There's just bells are a big 
thing for that, and Nina wonders

2199
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:45,320
if those are like Norvashi gods,
Noom, Nara and Nael, or named 

2200
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:47,280
after them. 
It's a real I really like that 

2201
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:48,280
idea. 
It's entirely possible. 

2202
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:50,640
We don't know a lot about the 
worship of We know they're a 

2203
01:47:50,640 --> 01:47:54,200
very religious society, but we 
don't really have a big clear 

2204
01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:56,880
picture on what that religion is
like. 

2205
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:59,400
The details of it are kind of 
sparse to us. 

2206
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:03,320
Nina also notes how similar they
are to Kiev and Ruse or 

2207
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:05,360
Muscovite. 
Like some of these Russian 

2208
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:10,720
influenced religious say buried 
priests are certainly a a big 

2209
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:14,280
association there, which is 
obviously a big part of Norvos. 

2210
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:16,280
I wonder how much that works for
foreigners right. 

2211
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:19,080
Like the quota she read. 
It was like, well they tell 

2212
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:21,480
someone to do everything 
basically like all the basic 

2213
01:48:21,480 --> 01:48:23,120
human functions. 
I wonder if there's a bell for 

2214
01:48:23,120 --> 01:48:26,160
using the bathroom. 
I mean jeez, so it's like Nope, 

2215
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:27,520
you can't go until the bell 
rings. 

2216
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:31,560
Like man, I really need to go. 
You wonder if like Lomas, like, 

2217
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:34,600
does that work for foreigners? 
Like, does the bell apply to 

2218
01:48:34,600 --> 01:48:35,720
him? 
He's like, you can only eat 

2219
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:37,160
during. 
Or does that only apply to 

2220
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:38,080
people who follow their 
religion? 

2221
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:39,640
Like, yeah, that would be 
something he would have probably

2222
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:42,480
written about how that, you know
the inner workings of how that 

2223
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:45,840
applies to to people who aren't 
locals. 

2224
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:49,600
When in Rome when in Norvos, 
what does the Norvos you do? 

2225
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:51,200
Yeah, seriously. 
I wonder if he'd let his beard 

2226
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:53,880
grow out a little more, or if he
had one in the first place. 

2227
01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:55,640
I don't know. 
And that's that's it's something

2228
01:48:55,640 --> 01:48:58,160
that has in common with the 
Titan as a noisemaker. 

2229
01:48:58,160 --> 01:49:00,760
The Titan is the other one that 
can actually make noise, right? 

2230
01:49:00,760 --> 01:49:02,800
And it. 
But the Titan only roars on 

2231
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:06,040
special occasions like feast 
days and victory and things like

2232
01:49:06,040 --> 01:49:07,160
that. 
The unmasking. 

2233
01:49:07,440 --> 01:49:11,000
Where's the bells that are like 
every every day, several times a

2234
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:13,400
day. 
So that's a lot. 

2235
01:49:13,480 --> 01:49:18,960
OK, those are the seven we know.
Time to get into the unknown 

2236
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:22,760
wonders made by man #8 and #9, 
in no particular order. 

2237
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:24,400
We're just going to get, we're 
going to, we're going to list 

2238
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:26,840
off all the ones we think are 
candidates with brief 

2239
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:31,040
descriptions and then Ashea, 
Sean, myself will weigh in on 

2240
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:32,960
what we think they are. 
Plus Nina has added hers as 

2241
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:34,760
well. 
So we'll all, all four of us 

2242
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:36,400
will weigh in with what our 
guesses are. 

2243
01:49:36,440 --> 01:49:40,080
So none of these have been 
particularly remote so far. 

2244
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:43,800
None of them are like, wow, how 
did he get to that here? 

2245
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:45,040
It gets a little tricky with 
that. 

2246
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:47,760
Some of these are just as easy, 
like some of them are in 

2247
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:50,280
Westeros, but some of them are 
particularly remote. 

2248
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:52,960
And that adds to the difficulty 
of wondering if he actually went

2249
01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,160
there And I was like, well, no, 
that might be why maybe he 

2250
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:56,800
didn't go there, because it's so
far away. 

2251
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:58,440
We'll start with the mazes of 
Laura. 

2252
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:01,840
We had a whole episode on Laura.
It's one of the nine free 

2253
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:03,160
cities. 
We talked about the mazes and 

2254
01:50:03,160 --> 01:50:09,080
the Maze makers quite a bit. 
The trick here is, are they man 

2255
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:11,200
made? 
The Maze Makers? 

2256
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:14,200
We're probably human, but they 
might not have been. 

2257
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:17,680
They might have been some other 
species, which is a semantic 

2258
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:20,560
trick here, right? 
Like, well, they definitely 

2259
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:23,040
aren't gods either. 
That's the two categories that 

2260
01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:25,720
Lomas gives us. 
Is man made and natural 

2261
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:27,280
Basically. 
And well, this is not, this 

2262
01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:29,440
isn't either. 
If it's if it's not man made, it

2263
01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:31,680
certainly isn't natural. 
So it was it was constructed. 

2264
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:36,920
For you, in our Our potential 
third Lomas episode, where we 

2265
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:41,000
talk about unnatural wonders, 
would the Mazes of Laura be on 

2266
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:42,600
that list for you? 
Would you include it? 

2267
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:45,080
I think so. 
I think we would have to include

2268
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:48,720
it probably. 
But I sort of have it as my 

2269
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:52,360
honorable mention for like my 
tenth choice for here because 

2270
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:56,760
I'm not sure like I think if 
Lomas considered the man made, 

2271
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:00,360
it's hard not to include them 
but he if he admitted them that 

2272
01:51:00,360 --> 01:51:03,080
would be why is that he didn't 
consider the man made or or I 

2273
01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:05,320
don't know it's it's tough. 
It's very tough. 

2274
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:08,840
It's kind of semantics. 
So you're but but again Esha 

2275
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:13,440
brings up the the need for this 
alternate categorization and 

2276
01:51:13,440 --> 01:51:15,520
you'll see there's this isn't 
the only one that kind of fits 

2277
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:20,520
in that alternate categorization
of like, well, man made natural,

2278
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:23,400
like the Shadow Lands are like, 
well, that's not natural. 

2279
01:51:23,400 --> 01:51:26,400
That seems very supernatural. 
So that might be so it doesn't 

2280
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:28,200
really fit. 
It's wondrous, it's amazing, but

2281
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:31,000
it doesn't it's not. 
AI don't think it fits into 

2282
01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:34,600
either category necessarily. 
The wall seems supernatural to 

2283
01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:39,440
me, and also maybe supernatural.
How much Lomas realizes or 

2284
01:51:39,440 --> 01:51:41,360
believes that it is. 
He put it on his list of man 

2285
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:42,960
made but. 
And you're right to bring that 

2286
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:44,720
up, because some of these there 
is that overlap. 

2287
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,840
Like there is there's absolutely
there's magic in the wall that's

2288
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:51,840
not doubtable. 
But is that what enables it to 

2289
01:51:51,840 --> 01:51:54,480
stand 700 feet tall? 
Probably not, you know, but it. 

2290
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:56,880
But it definitely adds to the 
wondrousness of it that the dead

2291
01:51:56,880 --> 01:51:59,320
can't pass and that Dragons 
can't pass or or whatever, 

2292
01:51:59,320 --> 01:52:02,760
whatever, exactly how it works. 
So man, that's tricky. 

2293
01:52:02,760 --> 01:52:07,720
Like, say, all the art on the 
walls of Karth were made through

2294
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:09,400
magic. 
Oh, OK. 

2295
01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:11,040
OK. 
Does that mean the walls don't 

2296
01:52:11,040 --> 01:52:13,200
count the glory of the city? 
Good point. 

2297
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:16,880
So did the magic just randomly 
happen one day, or did a 

2298
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:19,000
magician have to stand? 
There, but still man made. 

2299
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:20,280
Still. 
And have a vision of what the 

2300
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:22,360
art would be. 
It's called Man made. 

2301
01:52:22,440 --> 01:52:23,760
Right. 
Humans using magic. 

2302
01:52:23,760 --> 01:52:26,120
Is that would I? 
I could see why you'd call that 

2303
01:52:26,120 --> 01:52:27,680
man made. 
But in the case of something 

2304
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:30,280
like the Shadow, we don't know 
the origin of that magic. 

2305
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:32,320
So that's like, well, it could 
be man. 

2306
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,960
It could be a magical accident 
done by humans, right. 

2307
01:52:35,960 --> 01:52:37,600
The doom of the current state of
Valyria. 

2308
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,960
You could call that maybe like 
the the magical fallout of 

2309
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:43,280
Valyria that you could call that
man made. 

2310
01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:45,840
Maybe, you know. 
But that's the that's the trick.

2311
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:47,720
Like we we, we were missing some
details. 

2312
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:50,280
It was part of the fun though. 
One of the other interesting 

2313
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:53,160
things about the Maze of Laura 
is it might be the oldest, it 

2314
01:52:53,160 --> 01:52:54,760
might be older than any of 
these. 

2315
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:58,080
It might even be older than the 
five forts, which is wild to 

2316
01:52:58,080 --> 01:53:00,400
think about because those are 
super old and like the 

2317
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:01,480
beginning. 
The Hightower might have been 

2318
01:53:01,480 --> 01:53:04,840
started 10,000 years ago. 
So like, if this is older than 

2319
01:53:04,840 --> 01:53:07,720
that, that's really something. 
Now I we don't even know for 

2320
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:12,160
sure that he went to Laura, but 
it seems likely because of this 

2321
01:53:12,160 --> 01:53:15,040
feature and because he seems to 
have gone so many places and 

2322
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:17,120
it's not super remote. 
I mean, Laura Ath is. 

2323
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:18,640
He's right by it when he's in 
Norva. 

2324
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:20,640
Yeah, yeah. 
It's not even that far away. 

2325
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:23,440
He's in Bravos too, yeah. 
He's right by there. 

2326
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:26,160
So I suspect he went there and 
it just, it's just not one of 

2327
01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:30,200
the things that we get. 
We know for sure there's more 

2328
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:33,680
that George wrote about Lomas 
that wasn't included in The 

2329
01:53:33,680 --> 01:53:35,400
World of Ice and Fire. 
Perhaps this is one of those 

2330
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:38,360
things, The Hightower, Let's 
talk about the Hightower. 

2331
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:41,600
We've already talked about it a 
little bit because we framed it 

2332
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:44,240
as a potentially the thing that 
he left off the list because he 

2333
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,960
was used to it, a place he may 
have been born because of all 

2334
01:53:46,960 --> 01:53:49,560
the books there. 
Also because it has such a great

2335
01:53:49,560 --> 01:53:51,600
real world parallel that we 
mentioned the Lighthouse of 

2336
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:54,760
Alexandria, which is also a 
lighthouse like like the 

2337
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:58,160
Hightower, and there they also 
have the association of the 

2338
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:00,520
knowledge there. 
The Lighthouse of Alexandria 

2339
01:54:01,080 --> 01:54:04,600
coexisted with the great Library
of Alexandria, just like Old 

2340
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:07,280
Town has the Citadel along with 
the high Tower. 

2341
01:54:07,280 --> 01:54:09,520
So very cool. 
We know the High Tower is the 

2342
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:10,720
tallest tower in the known 
world. 

2343
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:12,680
That by itself is very 
impressive. 

2344
01:54:12,680 --> 01:54:15,440
We don't actually know how tall 
it is though, it's just more 

2345
01:54:15,440 --> 01:54:18,120
than the wall. 
So the wall is 700 feet more 

2346
01:54:18,120 --> 01:54:19,200
than that. 
We don't know how much more 

2347
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:20,960
though. 
And part of the difficulty there

2348
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:23,400
probably is that the high Tower 
has been added to. 

2349
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:26,200
It's changed. 
It hasn't had a static height, 

2350
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:28,240
although maybe it has been for a
while. 

2351
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:30,280
For all we know it hasn't 
changed in a century or even 

2352
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:32,480
more. 
But that's pretty, pretty cool. 

2353
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:35,320
Must have an amazing view. 
We have not been inside it. 

2354
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:36,800
It's amazing. 
We've been near it. 

2355
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:40,280
We've but but not in it which is
kind of interesting in that 

2356
01:54:40,280 --> 01:54:43,720
we've been you know we've seen 
the triple walls of Karth, we've

2357
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:44,920
seen some of these really remote
ones. 

2358
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:47,200
But we haven't been inside the 
Hightower, which is just right 

2359
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:50,840
there in one of the biggest 
population centers of of of 

2360
01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:53,200
Westeros. 
The tallest tower, not tallest 

2361
01:54:53,200 --> 01:54:58,360
building on Earth right now is 
the Tokyo Sky Tree which is 2080

2362
01:54:58,360 --> 01:55:01,200
feet or 634 meters. 
The tallest building is the Burj

2363
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:06,840
Khalifa which is 2717 feet and 
these two like. 

2364
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:08,440
Crazy. 
That's like half a mile. 

2365
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:10,840
It's so tall. 
Those are, Yeah, it's almost 

2366
01:55:10,840 --> 01:55:12,240
literally. 
It's almost exactly half a mile.

2367
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:14,960
You're right. 
Like, isn't a mile 5000, 400 

2368
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:16,880
feet, something like that, I 
forget 5 * 200. 

2369
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:18,800
Yeah, you're right. 
So I think I'm a little over 

2370
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:19,840
half. 
That's that is crazy. 

2371
01:55:19,840 --> 01:55:22,960
Yeah. 
So like several of these, it's 

2372
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:25,760
it's changed over time. 
Like, obviously the Tokyo Sky 

2373
01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:29,040
Tree hasn't been the tallest for
all that long, but the Wall and 

2374
01:55:29,240 --> 01:55:31,520
the Hightower, they probably 
have held. 

2375
01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,200
Like the Hightower has held this
title probably for a huge amount

2376
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:38,480
of time, unless something else 
was taller and fell, like maybe 

2377
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:41,080
the Sarnath, you know, something
like that. 

2378
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:42,840
It's possible. 
Maybe something in Valyria. 

2379
01:55:43,360 --> 01:55:46,720
Valyria is very possible, but 
not anymore. 

2380
01:55:46,720 --> 01:55:48,680
And it started as a 50 foot 
wooden tower. 

2381
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:52,040
So it's definitely like, it 
wasn't obviously Lomas didn't 

2382
01:55:52,040 --> 01:55:55,200
live that long ago when it was, 
you know, the dawn of man, the 

2383
01:55:55,200 --> 01:55:57,840
Dawn age we're talking about, 
but super old. 

2384
01:55:57,960 --> 01:55:59,880
How tall is the High Tower? 
We don't know. 

2385
01:55:59,880 --> 01:56:02,320
It's not given. 
It's just taller than the wall. 

2386
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:03,760
It's more than 700 feet tall. 
That's all we. 

2387
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:06,800
Know I did a Google search and 
so I don't know how where this I

2388
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:10,040
this maybe shouldn't count but 
it says 800 feet so I don't 

2389
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:11,440
know. 
I don't think getting that from,

2390
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:12,480
I don't. 
I think that's just a 

2391
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:13,840
guesstimate, yeah. 
OK. 

2392
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:16,080
Yeah. 
But part of why I bring this up 

2393
01:56:16,080 --> 01:56:19,600
and we'll get there, but I mean,
do you think it's 10%, twenty, 

2394
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:22,680
30% higher than the wall? 
Do you think it's 1000 feet? 

2395
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:25,240
Well, I think the guess there is
that it's 100 feet taller than 

2396
01:56:25,240 --> 01:56:27,280
the wall, just like. 
Is that a rough guess or is it 

2397
01:56:27,280 --> 01:56:29,080
actually 200? 
I don't think it's 500 feet 

2398
01:56:29,080 --> 01:56:32,080
taller, but I think it's within 
200 feet taller than the wall. 

2399
01:56:32,320 --> 01:56:36,040
I'm bringing it up because the 
forts are 1000 feet tall. 

2400
01:56:36,240 --> 01:56:38,040
There's five of them, and. 
They're all taller. 

2401
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:40,000
Yeah, I know. 
That's so insane. 

2402
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:41,920
And the five forts. 
We can believe that assuming 

2403
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:42,560
that's. 
True, right? 

2404
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:44,280
Which, And does that count as a 
tower? 

2405
01:56:44,280 --> 01:56:45,560
I guess not. 
This is probably what it's 

2406
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:49,200
saying, so like I think. 
It's easier to make a tower tall

2407
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:50,880
than it is to make a building 
tall. 

2408
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:54,520
Yes, Especially because these 
aren't buildings designed for 

2409
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:57,360
heart. 
They're they can hold like 

2410
01:56:57,360 --> 01:56:59,000
10,000 men each or something, 
right? 

2411
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:03,200
These aren't just like barely 
getting this narrow tip. 

2412
01:57:03,200 --> 01:57:05,720
To a spot. 
These are massive at the base 

2413
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:08,720
so. 
Yep, So it might have started 

2414
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:11,760
more like the Five Forts when it
was a fortress made of 

2415
01:57:11,760 --> 01:57:14,160
Blackstone, because that's the 
base of the Hightower. 

2416
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:15,680
Now. 
It's nowhere the size of one of 

2417
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:20,360
the Five Forts, but it's made of
this very mysterious Blackstone,

2418
01:57:20,360 --> 01:57:23,440
the fused Blackstone, or that 
that that we associate with the 

2419
01:57:23,440 --> 01:57:26,720
great Empire of the Dawn and or 
the Deep Ones and or the Maze 

2420
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:33,240
Makers, or maybe even Valyria. 
So a lot of ancient mysteries 

2421
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:37,040
wrapped into one location 'cause
it's also associated with 

2422
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:39,200
Brandon the Builder. 
So it's just like this. 

2423
01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:43,560
All the old stuff, all the old 
building people, all the old 

2424
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:45,920
civilizations are associated 
with Old Town one way or 

2425
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:49,120
another, And with the Hightower.
There's even stories of ancient 

2426
01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:53,800
Dragons there and a trading post
where Valyrians and other races 

2427
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:56,200
would come to maybe trade with 
the children of the Forest. 

2428
01:57:56,200 --> 01:57:59,600
I mean, there's a lot of ancient
history here that we don't have 

2429
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:03,760
a lot of depth on, just tales 
and and rumors. 

2430
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:08,040
But it sounds like this is a 
hotbed and it would make sense 

2431
01:58:08,040 --> 01:58:10,680
for there to be, for something 
to be recognized as wondrous 

2432
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:12,240
there. 
If even if not the Hightower, 

2433
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:15,760
maybe the whole city. 
But I think the high tower, it's

2434
01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:20,120
a strong, strong candidate. 
Nina says she taller than the 

2435
01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:22,040
wall. 
It's hard for her not to include

2436
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:24,280
it. 
That's that's her logic and I 

2437
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:26,760
tend to agree with that. 
It's it's hard not to include 

2438
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:28,960
it. 
I like that logic because that 

2439
01:58:28,960 --> 01:58:30,240
means you should include the 
five fourths. 

2440
01:58:30,400 --> 01:58:33,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
My, my argument against 

2441
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:36,680
Hightower, I still argue. 
I think I I will say I think I'm

2442
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:37,960
still going to say I think it 
is. 

2443
01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:40,760
The Hightower is one of the 
eight, one of the 9 wonders. 

2444
01:58:41,720 --> 01:58:45,160
The argument against it is when 
Sean brought up, which is that 

2445
01:58:45,160 --> 01:58:48,960
if you grew up in the shadow of 
the Hightower, is it still 

2446
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:51,240
wondrous to you? 
It's funny that you brought it 

2447
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:53,560
up, Sean, because I read a a 
really interesting academic 

2448
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:57,960
paper that brought up that same 
concept that that's the Library 

2449
01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:03,760
of Alexandria and the Lighthouse
were not on original one lists 

2450
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:05,880
of Wonders of the World 'cause 
they grew the the person writing

2451
01:59:05,880 --> 01:59:07,440
it was living around there, so, 
so. 

2452
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:08,720
That's where that concept came 
from. 

2453
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:11,360
It's really neat to see that a 
real person that named Wonders 

2454
01:59:11,360 --> 01:59:13,720
really did that, the thing that 
you were describing. 

2455
01:59:13,720 --> 01:59:15,720
They were like, this is nothing.
And then other people were like,

2456
01:59:15,720 --> 01:59:17,320
no, no. 
This is a wonder, though, man. 

2457
01:59:17,880 --> 01:59:18,960
Oh, OK all right. 
You got me. 

2458
01:59:18,960 --> 01:59:19,600
Convinced me. 
Yeah. 

2459
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:24,520
That also requires Lomas to be 
from Old Town or near Old Town. 

2460
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:27,720
At least, which is reasonable, 
but by no means a a sure thing. 

2461
01:59:28,160 --> 01:59:32,400
These next two are very familiar
to us all, but they're a little 

2462
01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:36,580
confusing in how to categorize 
them because they are both man 

2463
01:59:36,580 --> 01:59:38,240
made. 
There's aspects of them that are

2464
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:41,920
man made, but the natural 
element is potentially the more 

2465
01:59:41,920 --> 01:59:44,920
important part First. 
One of them is Casterly Rock. 

2466
01:59:45,160 --> 01:59:47,720
It's similar to the arguments 
for the mazes in some way, which

2467
01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:52,520
is that they're impressive, but 
the natural start to it all 

2468
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:55,520
might be more impressive. 
The rock itself is so unusual, 

2469
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:59,200
with all that gold being so tall
and an area that's more hilly 

2470
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:02,360
than mountainous. 
And in this amazing natural 

2471
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:06,280
harbor with the the wide open 
cave system and all that, it's 

2472
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:11,000
the Lannisters and Casterlys 
before them repurposed it and 

2473
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:12,960
did a lot of carving which made 
it more wondrous. 

2474
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:17,320
But I think it's pretty wondrous
without the man made aspects. 

2475
02:00:17,440 --> 02:00:20,040
So this is where the debate gets
framed as well. 

2476
02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:23,440
The Rock is a great candidate, 
but for which list? 

2477
02:00:23,640 --> 02:00:26,360
Probably more the second one. 
Yeah, I lean towards natural 

2478
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:28,640
wonder. 
I think I if someone argued for 

2479
02:00:28,640 --> 02:00:30,560
it as man made, I would, I would
see it. 

2480
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:35,680
But I think if we're already 
bursting at the limit to trying 

2481
02:00:35,680 --> 02:00:38,800
to come up with the AT at fit, 
the two spots might as well just

2482
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:41,440
put Cassidy rock and natural 
wonders and make it easier for 

2483
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:43,160
ourselves. 
Yeah, I agree. 

2484
02:00:43,400 --> 02:00:45,320
It is simpler to put it there 
because, yeah, it's hard to put 

2485
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:47,520
it above the high tower of the 
five fourths, which I think are 

2486
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:50,000
two of our better candidates. 
And there's other ones too that 

2487
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:52,320
are maybe just as good as casted
rock, if not to the level as 

2488
02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:54,360
other ones. 
And yeah, what do you think, 

2489
02:00:54,360 --> 02:00:56,440
Sean? 
Unsuspicious of it making either

2490
02:00:56,440 --> 02:00:59,320
list. 
I think that the man made 

2491
02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:02,960
portion of it is hard to witness
and be in awe of. 

2492
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:06,720
Right from the outside it's a 
big mountain, but then you go in

2493
02:01:06,720 --> 02:01:09,320
and now you're just in a cave or
a hallway here and there. 

2494
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:12,480
There might be some luxuriously 
decorated room, but there's 

2495
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:16,160
thousand decorated rooms and you
know, like it's hard for any one

2496
02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:20,200
piece of it to really jump out 
and be that outstanding compared

2497
02:01:20,200 --> 02:01:22,640
to the other things that is 
competing with same thing. 

2498
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:24,920
Even as a natural wonder. 
There's bigger mountains. 

2499
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:28,200
You, you know, like it's, you 
know, maybe as an individual 

2500
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:29,120
mountain. 
That is another thing. 

2501
02:01:29,120 --> 02:01:32,160
In the real world, they measure 
mountain heights not just by 

2502
02:01:33,200 --> 02:01:35,920
elevation from sea level but 
also the relative height of 

2503
02:01:35,920 --> 02:01:39,240
what's around it. 
But neither of those get 

2504
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:43,320
included in the marvels of the 
natural world like Mount Everest

2505
02:01:43,320 --> 02:01:44,800
isn't one of them. 
You know what I mean? 

2506
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:47,600
The Grand Canyon is kind of the 
opposite of a mountain, but it's

2507
02:01:47,600 --> 02:01:48,760
not one of them either. 
So. 

2508
02:01:48,760 --> 02:01:51,600
Some people say it is, but. 
I guess depends on wait list. 

2509
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:53,400
But you're right. 
But you're right, that's not a 

2510
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:57,480
universal thing, so good point. 
The other candidate here, which 

2511
02:01:57,480 --> 02:01:59,720
has a lot in common with the 
Rock for similar reasons, is the

2512
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:02,120
Erie. 
Extremely beautiful, both by 

2513
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:03,880
itself and because of the 
unbeatable views. 

2514
02:02:03,880 --> 02:02:08,400
But it's the natural elements 
that really make it. 

2515
02:02:08,520 --> 02:02:11,200
Probably even, maybe even more 
so than Castley Rock because 

2516
02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:14,880
it's probably less work was done
to make the Erie though it's 

2517
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:17,680
more visually stunning from a 
distance. 

2518
02:02:17,680 --> 02:02:20,760
It's it's the imported marble. 
It's beautiful to behold. 

2519
02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:23,600
It's atop the Giants Lands, 
which is the tallest peak in the

2520
02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:25,000
Mountains of the Moon in the 
Veil of Aaron. 

2521
02:02:25,000 --> 02:02:27,800
It's one of the highest peaks in
all the Westeros probably, and 

2522
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:31,800
they built this tall tower 
series of towers on top of it 

2523
02:02:32,040 --> 02:02:33,720
took several generations to 
build. 

2524
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:36,560
It's not the tallest building, 
but it's definitely the highest 

2525
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:41,240
up, I think at least amongst 
maybe maybe some watchtower here

2526
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:44,440
or there might be higher, but 
nothing of nothing of of 

2527
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:46,440
acclaim. 
It's also it. 

2528
02:02:46,440 --> 02:02:50,320
It meets a standard I was 
mentioning earlier is that it's 

2529
02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:55,840
how spectacular of a a, a build 
or whatever it is for how remote

2530
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,200
of a location Like how could you
even build that how that you 

2531
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:00,560
know you're already on this 
mountain. 

2532
02:03:00,560 --> 02:03:05,400
It's hard to get there just a a 
skilled climber on their own. 

2533
02:03:05,400 --> 02:03:08,360
How did you get enough climbers 
with enough skill to get all the

2534
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:11,680
material? 
It that that adds to it for me, 

2535
02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:14,280
I think maybe even more so than 
Castle Rock, although I'm still 

2536
02:03:14,280 --> 02:03:16,680
suspicious. 
I still don't know if it if I 

2537
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:18,440
don't think I counted. 
I think there's other things 

2538
02:03:18,440 --> 02:03:20,080
that are. 
I tend to agree. 

2539
02:03:20,080 --> 02:03:22,440
Potentially more impressive. 
I think it would be like if we 

2540
02:03:22,440 --> 02:03:24,600
did a top 20 it would make it, 
but I don't think it's in the 

2541
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:27,120
top 9 maybe. 
Even Top 10. 

2542
02:03:27,680 --> 02:03:29,800
Or it might. 
It might could be 10th or yeah, 

2543
02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:32,240
it's it's very impressive. 
There's no doubt it's another 

2544
02:03:32,240 --> 02:03:33,480
one of the ones that we get to 
see. 

2545
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:35,400
We get to see a pretty good 
amount of it. 

2546
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:37,720
We could see the approach to it 
as well, not just inside, but 

2547
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:38,720
like they see it from a 
distance. 

2548
02:03:38,720 --> 02:03:40,360
They're like, whoa, that's 
that's pretty impressive. 

2549
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:42,560
We see the climb there, we see 
how remote it is, We see how 

2550
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:46,160
difficult it is to reach. 
Even though it's the the home of

2551
02:03:46,160 --> 02:03:49,040
one of the great houses, or at 
least the the summer home of one

2552
02:03:49,040 --> 02:03:50,680
of the great houses. 
They don't live there in winter.

2553
02:03:51,120 --> 02:03:52,800
It is kind of small. 
It's the smallest of the great 

2554
02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:54,360
castles. 
That is an argument against it. 

2555
02:03:54,880 --> 02:03:57,360
Like I said before, one of the 
things that makes it so 

2556
02:03:57,360 --> 02:04:02,080
impressive is just so the beauty
of the the view being up there. 

2557
02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:05,480
It's an incredible view of 
Alyssa's tears and the valley 

2558
02:04:05,480 --> 02:04:08,080
below. 
It might be the most beautiful 

2559
02:04:08,080 --> 02:04:13,200
natural view that we know of in 
the entire world of Westeros and

2560
02:04:13,200 --> 02:04:18,920
and Essos, but the Planetos, but
so that you know that, but that 

2561
02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:20,800
that kind of argument is 
something you would say about 

2562
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:22,640
natural wonders and not about a 
castle. 

2563
02:04:22,640 --> 02:04:25,160
It's not the castle part that's 
that's you could just stand up 

2564
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:27,240
on that peak and look down and 
you would get that same effect, 

2565
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:29,200
you know, It's just nice to have
a castle there too. 

2566
02:04:29,600 --> 02:04:33,040
Something to potentially 
parallel this to is the Christ 

2567
02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:35,440
the Redeemer statue in Brazil 
one's. 

2568
02:04:35,440 --> 02:04:38,480
Enormous, isn't it? 
It Well, it is, but it's nowhere

2569
02:04:38,480 --> 02:04:41,680
near as big as those other. 
It's more than the Statue of 

2570
02:04:41,680 --> 02:04:45,480
Liberty, but to get it built on 
that mountain peak, you know it.

2571
02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:48,800
Appears to be taller than it is.
And then you have this massive 

2572
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:50,960
statue there, like, how did you 
build that there? 

2573
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:54,360
That's A and it does get 
included in the modern list, the

2574
02:04:54,360 --> 02:04:56,480
modern marvels. 
Yeah, it's it's a it's a big 

2575
02:04:56,480 --> 02:04:58,000
one. 
That's also one that has 

2576
02:04:58,000 --> 02:04:59,800
incredible views. 
Like you, if you were up in the 

2577
02:04:59,800 --> 02:05:01,560
spot where it is. 
The statue itself is. 

2578
02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:04,000
I haven't been there, but I've 
seen the, like, people taking 

2579
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:06,440
pictures from it. 
It's like, whoa, that's that's 

2580
02:05:06,440 --> 02:05:08,200
awesome. 
You can see the the coast and 

2581
02:05:08,200 --> 02:05:10,360
the all the the trees and 
everything the city below. 

2582
02:05:10,520 --> 02:05:14,240
All right, so here's one that we
perhaps one we that we may have 

2583
02:05:14,240 --> 02:05:16,960
debated the most offline here. 
This is the Great Pyramid of 

2584
02:05:16,960 --> 02:05:19,160
Geese. 
It's mentioned in the World of 

2585
02:05:19,160 --> 02:05:22,240
Ice and Fire app and in the 
book, but it's not confirmed as 

2586
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:24,400
a wonder. 
We're not sure, but it's 

2587
02:05:24,400 --> 02:05:25,800
definitely discussed a lot. 
Here's a quote. 

2588
02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:30,000
The Great Pyramid of Marine had 
been built as an echo to the 

2589
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:35,040
Great Pyramid of Geese, whose 
colossal ruins Lomas Longstrider

2590
02:05:35,200 --> 02:05:38,920
had once visited. 
Like its ancient predecessor, 

2591
02:05:39,120 --> 02:05:43,560
whose red marble halls were now 
the haunt of bats and spiders, 

2592
02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:49,000
the Mirenese pyramid boasted 3 
and 30 levels, that number being

2593
02:05:49,000 --> 02:05:51,840
somehow sacred to the gods of 
Geese. 

2594
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:55,480
And it's hard to miss the real 
world Parallel Great Pyramid of 

2595
02:05:55,480 --> 02:05:59,000
Geese. 
Great Pyramid of Giza Pretty 

2596
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:01,440
similar. 
They're very similar in age. 

2597
02:06:01,480 --> 02:06:06,760
The Well, sort of in, in a 
sense, the Great Pyramid of Giza

2598
02:06:06,760 --> 02:06:11,720
is 4600 years old. 
The Great Pyramid of Geese was 

2599
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:14,880
destroyed 5000 years ago. 
So the destruction of the Great 

2600
02:06:14,880 --> 02:06:17,320
Pyramid came around the same 
time that the real world Great 

2601
02:06:17,320 --> 02:06:19,960
Pyramid was built. 
So The Who knows how long the 

2602
02:06:20,160 --> 02:06:22,800
Great Pyramid of Geese stood 
before it was destroyed 5000 

2603
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:25,200
years ago, but it's not clear 
just how destroyed it was. 

2604
02:06:25,200 --> 02:06:27,480
And this is part of our 
difficulty when we were debating

2605
02:06:27,480 --> 02:06:30,200
this offline. 
We know Valyria after the 5th 

2606
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:35,680
Giscari war, sacked and 
destroyed old gifts the city and

2607
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:38,720
what damage they did to the 
Great Pyramid is unclear. 

2608
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:43,720
It sounds like it's it's unused 
because the population center 

2609
02:06:43,720 --> 02:06:47,120
nearby is gone, but how much 
actual destruction did they 

2610
02:06:47,120 --> 02:06:50,560
level on the pyramid itself? 
Well, it says there's still red 

2611
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:53,400
marble halls that are the haunt 
of bats and spiders, so clearly 

2612
02:06:53,400 --> 02:06:56,720
isn't fully levelled if there's 
some red marble halls that are 

2613
02:06:56,720 --> 02:06:58,520
still there. 
But does it still have its 

2614
02:06:58,520 --> 02:07:00,000
point? 
Does it still look like a 

2615
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:02,120
pyramid? 
Or is it more like a some 

2616
02:07:02,120 --> 02:07:04,520
strange rhombus, You know, 
that's kind of. 

2617
02:07:05,120 --> 02:07:09,080
What I figure is that yeah, it 
doesn't have the 33 levels, but 

2618
02:07:09,080 --> 02:07:11,400
it might still have 20, It might
still have 10. 

2619
02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:14,320
It it still has enough to have 
multiple levels, it's not one 

2620
02:07:14,320 --> 02:07:15,520
level. 
I agree. 

2621
02:07:15,560 --> 02:07:17,000
Yeah. 
It sounds like it's not just the

2622
02:07:17,000 --> 02:07:20,440
base only you know. 
And even if it was just the base

2623
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:22,480
only, I kind of made this point 
before. 

2624
02:07:22,480 --> 02:07:26,040
That might be enough to envision
the rest of it, especially if 

2625
02:07:26,040 --> 02:07:28,400
there's paintings and people to 
tell stories. 

2626
02:07:28,640 --> 02:07:31,920
But if there are multiple levels
and someone side of it might be 

2627
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:35,800
still hundreds of feet tall or 
something, Especially when you 

2628
02:07:35,800 --> 02:07:38,360
consider in the real world, 
there are some time periods 

2629
02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:41,560
during the Renaissance when they
were updating the Seven Wonders 

2630
02:07:41,560 --> 02:07:43,600
of the World. 
And again, there's no central 

2631
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:47,320
body or scientific method to 
this, but some of them included 

2632
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:50,200
Solomon's Temple and Noah's Ark,
which they could not have 

2633
02:07:50,200 --> 02:07:56,400
possibly have ever seen. 
So not not existing at all or 

2634
02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:00,320
being visible at all can still 
potentially make a list. 

2635
02:08:00,320 --> 02:08:03,480
So the rooms being there, 
especially if the rooms are 

2636
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:07,240
still there to a certain extent,
and especially with the close 

2637
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:10,400
parallels that George has 
created to the pyramids in Giza 

2638
02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:15,400
and that you could infer what 
the size would be from marine 

2639
02:08:15,400 --> 02:08:17,200
too, right? 
There are other pyramids too. 

2640
02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:21,080
All these things it make it's a 
strong candidate for me. 

2641
02:08:21,080 --> 02:08:24,160
I I I think it would be one of 
my final guesses if I was pinned

2642
02:08:24,160 --> 02:08:24,960
down. 
Cool. 

2643
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:26,040
Yeah. 
It is very impressive. 

2644
02:08:26,040 --> 02:08:28,040
And you wonder that Lomas would 
have probably tried to imagine 

2645
02:08:28,040 --> 02:08:31,040
what it was like as a whole. 
And you also wonder if he lived,

2646
02:08:31,400 --> 02:08:34,440
if the Great Pyramid of Marine 
existed when Lomas went to visit

2647
02:08:34,440 --> 02:08:36,680
this one, whether he could go to
see it as comparisons, like this

2648
02:08:36,680 --> 02:08:39,320
is the one they built as an echo
of the old one. 

2649
02:08:39,560 --> 02:08:41,840
And he would get an even better 
idea of what the old one looked 

2650
02:08:41,840 --> 02:08:44,400
like by seeing the new one, 
because it's apparently built 

2651
02:08:44,400 --> 02:08:46,720
very similarly. 
And that also stands out because

2652
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:50,280
I don't think we have any other 
examples of rebuilt wonders like

2653
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:52,200
they're trying. 
They like they built this one in

2654
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:54,160
honor of as a replica of the old
one. 

2655
02:08:54,160 --> 02:08:57,280
I don't think any of the other 
ones we've listed have anything 

2656
02:08:57,280 --> 02:08:59,320
like that. 
Maybe I'm missing something I 

2657
02:08:59,320 --> 02:09:00,960
I'm just now this is just now 
occurring to me. 

2658
02:09:00,960 --> 02:09:04,680
So I didn't prepare that 
particular thought, but I think 

2659
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:07,240
that's it's worth a mention. 
I think like a lot of these 

2660
02:09:07,240 --> 02:09:12,760
other ones, it's from a 
distance, it's like, wow, you 

2661
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:15,240
could see that and be like, Oh 
my gosh, that's really big. 

2662
02:09:15,240 --> 02:09:17,280
Even if it's in partly in ruins,
you'd still be able to see it 

2663
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:21,320
from far away. 
He how he got there is probably 

2664
02:09:21,320 --> 02:09:23,640
similar to his other ones. 
It's still the southern coast of

2665
02:09:23,640 --> 02:09:26,440
Essos. 
It's not that difficult to go to

2666
02:09:26,760 --> 02:09:29,320
old geese by ship, I don't 
think. 

2667
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:32,240
My thoughts on that, on what you
were saying about things being a

2668
02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:34,400
replica or similar to another 
wonder. 

2669
02:09:34,520 --> 02:09:36,680
Yeah, I think the only one that 
I think, I don't think it's a 

2670
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:39,760
replica at all, but the only one
that comes to mind for me is 

2671
02:09:39,760 --> 02:09:43,680
that the question of whether the
five forts or the wall predates 

2672
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:46,240
one another. 
O2 very different structures 

2673
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:47,000
but. 
Both used. 

2674
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:50,280
To keep things out, you know. 
They are like, yeah, they are 

2675
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:53,440
like kind of similar parallels 
but with some some things in 

2676
02:09:53,440 --> 02:09:54,920
reverse but. 
And I don't know which one I 

2677
02:09:54,920 --> 02:09:56,280
think is more ancient. 
I kind of. 

2678
02:09:56,360 --> 02:09:58,480
I think 5 Fourths is, but yeah, 
I really don't know. 

2679
02:09:58,480 --> 02:10:02,560
Honestly, I I couldn't say. 
Let's move on to the next one. 

2680
02:10:03,640 --> 02:10:05,520
Actually, one other note about 
that, I would say he probably 

2681
02:10:05,520 --> 02:10:08,120
took ship. 
I did say that rather than 

2682
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:10,920
crossing like the Demon Road or 
something like that. 

2683
02:10:10,960 --> 02:10:14,120
So how he got to Slaver's Bay? 
Because I imagine he didn't just

2684
02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:17,720
see old Geese, but it's possible
he only did because maybe he 

2685
02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:19,360
didn't want to get enslaved. 
I don't know. 

2686
02:10:19,360 --> 02:10:22,120
It's probably not that he 
probably wasn't in that much 

2687
02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:24,920
danger of that, but it might be 
a reason to steer clear. 

2688
02:10:25,280 --> 02:10:29,760
The next one is interesting 
because it in some ways it's 

2689
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:31,840
more important than all the 
others, but it's maybe less 

2690
02:10:31,840 --> 02:10:33,960
wondrous. 
And this is the talking trees of

2691
02:10:33,960 --> 02:10:36,440
the Summer Isles. 
We know for a fact that Lomas 

2692
02:10:36,440 --> 02:10:39,080
went there, he talked to their 
wise people, and he learned 

2693
02:10:39,080 --> 02:10:42,040
about this. 
These are a series of trees, and

2694
02:10:42,040 --> 02:10:44,560
there's got to be a really huge 
number. 

2695
02:10:44,560 --> 02:10:46,640
We have no idea how many, but 
they're carved with the 

2696
02:10:46,640 --> 02:10:50,520
histories, laws and commandments
from their gods on them. 

2697
02:10:51,560 --> 02:10:53,720
There's all, some of these are 
form, are carved in the form of 

2698
02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:57,680
song, and there's maps. 
So like, whoa, this is like a 

2699
02:10:57,680 --> 02:11:01,600
vast trove of knowledge that's 
just carved onto trees. 

2700
02:11:01,600 --> 02:11:04,000
So in some ways it's got the 
same sort of value as the 

2701
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:08,280
Citadel or any sort of ancient 
library. 

2702
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:10,960
Well, I think of it as a 
counterpoint, like a mundane 

2703
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:13,720
counterpoint to Wehrwoods and 
Green Seers, right? 

2704
02:11:14,200 --> 02:11:17,200
Because in that case they're 
actually just storing it in the 

2705
02:11:17,200 --> 02:11:19,680
trees, but in this case, like 
they're they're doing. 

2706
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:22,000
It's the same function, but but 
just written there. 

2707
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:23,320
I don't think it's magical in 
this. 

2708
02:11:23,320 --> 02:11:25,120
Case it's a non supernatural 
version of that. 

2709
02:11:25,120 --> 02:11:27,000
Yeah, it's associated with the 
tree though. 

2710
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:29,720
That's great call. 
Yeah I love that idea but it. 

2711
02:11:29,800 --> 02:11:31,880
But unlike some of the other 
ones, the reason maybe it's not 

2712
02:11:31,880 --> 02:11:34,120
a wonder as much as this 
knowledge is like wow, they were

2713
02:11:34,120 --> 02:11:35,560
able to keep all this. 
It's really amazing. 

2714
02:11:35,560 --> 02:11:37,440
It's wonders. 
It's more valuable than a lot of

2715
02:11:37,440 --> 02:11:40,600
these other things in terms of 
its its role in society. 

2716
02:11:41,080 --> 02:11:43,160
But it's not like you don't see 
it from a distance. 

2717
02:11:43,160 --> 02:11:45,560
You know you don't sail up and 
be like oh what's that? 

2718
02:11:45,560 --> 02:11:47,360
You wouldn't only you don't kind
of only be able to see it when 

2719
02:11:47,360 --> 02:11:51,680
you get close to it. 
It's not an edifice you know 

2720
02:11:51,680 --> 02:11:53,920
it's not. 
So it also has that struggle of 

2721
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:56,640
this this is partly natural and 
you know it's it's definitely 

2722
02:11:56,640 --> 02:11:57,920
the carvings are man made 
clearly. 

2723
02:11:57,920 --> 02:12:03,200
But you know it's it's it's a 
combo like like some of these 

2724
02:12:03,200 --> 02:12:05,080
other ones that makes it tricky 
to categorize. 

2725
02:12:05,640 --> 02:12:10,680
And it's also the only candidate
on this list that's constantly 

2726
02:12:10,680 --> 02:12:12,080
changing. 
Sure, all these have had 

2727
02:12:12,080 --> 02:12:13,920
changes. 
Cashly rockets, new tunnels. 

2728
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:16,440
The long bridge gets new. 
I don't know businesses moving 

2729
02:12:16,440 --> 02:12:18,280
on and off of it. 
That's that's not a change to 

2730
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:20,560
the structure necessarily. 
But it you might count that as a

2731
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:22,120
change. 
Maybe some of these other places

2732
02:12:22,120 --> 02:12:24,240
have added rooms or subtracted 
rooms, I don't know. 

2733
02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:26,880
But but this one is constantly 
they're adding new history, new 

2734
02:12:26,880 --> 02:12:29,160
law, whatever. 
Like, that's this is an ongoing 

2735
02:12:29,160 --> 02:12:32,280
thing, but it probably isn't an 
engineering marvel, You know 

2736
02:12:32,280 --> 02:12:33,640
what I mean? 
Like that might be why it 

2737
02:12:33,640 --> 02:12:37,640
doesn't quite make the top 9. 
I say you try writing all of 

2738
02:12:38,040 --> 02:12:40,320
your history on a tree Aziz, and
call that not I. 

2739
02:12:40,440 --> 02:12:41,640
Can't do any of these things 
though. 

2740
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:46,480
Engineering Marvel. 
Like, I wonder how they deal 

2741
02:12:46,480 --> 02:12:50,520
with logistically over time. 
Is the cheese as the trees grow 

2742
02:12:50,520 --> 02:12:53,800
do they get too tall to read 
what was written longer? 

2743
02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:57,160
And do they have some sort of 
ladder system to get up higher 

2744
02:12:57,160 --> 02:12:59,000
or some way to control the 
growth? 

2745
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:01,440
Or are they slow growing? 
No, no, actually, that's not how

2746
02:13:01,440 --> 02:13:02,720
it works. 
We learned this. 

2747
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:05,080
We talked about weirwoods. 
That's why the face of the tree 

2748
02:13:05,080 --> 02:13:06,840
stays at the bottom. 
That's not how trees grow. 

2749
02:13:06,960 --> 02:13:08,720
Trees don't grow from the base 
like that. 

2750
02:13:09,440 --> 02:13:12,800
Yeah, so they might carve up 
higher, but they but the history

2751
02:13:12,800 --> 02:13:16,800
wouldn't like, go up. 
It wouldn't move up with it. 

2752
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:20,200
It would stay at the base, yeah.
So that I'm glad you brought 

2753
02:13:20,200 --> 02:13:21,480
that up with that same thought 
process that. 

2754
02:13:21,480 --> 02:13:23,840
Might be my favorite thing I've 
ever learned through doing our 

2755
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:26,400
podcast. 
I always thought that of Trees 

2756
02:13:26,680 --> 02:13:28,920
and oh. 
I forget why we learned that. 

2757
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:31,200
But it was like an arborist that
told, like someone that knew it 

2758
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:32,600
was like, oh, no, that's not how
trees work. 

2759
02:13:32,600 --> 02:13:34,040
I'm like, OK then, all right, 
cool. 

2760
02:13:34,040 --> 02:13:34,800
We know now. 
Yeah. 

2761
02:13:34,840 --> 02:13:38,080
So the more you know, knowledge 
is power. 

2762
02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:39,600
Yeah. 
Obviously never second guessed 

2763
02:13:39,600 --> 02:13:42,280
it. 
I just thought they grew from 

2764
02:13:42,280 --> 02:13:43,400
the. 
I don't know, I don't know. 

2765
02:13:43,400 --> 02:13:47,720
I didn't second guess it at all.
But it makes sense like we have 

2766
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:50,800
a tree out there on our backyard
that's like leaning into our 

2767
02:13:50,800 --> 02:13:53,240
deck and it's got a carve out 
for that and that has stayed the

2768
02:13:53,240 --> 02:13:56,280
same spot, like the tree is 
risen, but that hasn't. 

2769
02:13:56,440 --> 02:13:59,280
Yeah, you're right. 
That's in the exact same spot. 

2770
02:13:59,320 --> 02:14:02,400
So it does stand to reason with 
my own real world experience and

2771
02:14:02,400 --> 02:14:04,200
yours. 
So yeah. 

2772
02:14:04,200 --> 02:14:06,400
So the talking tree is worth a 
mention but you can maybe see 

2773
02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:09,920
why it's maybe another top 20 
but not top nine. 

2774
02:14:09,920 --> 02:14:12,880
But your mileage may vary. 
You know these are we're 

2775
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:15,040
guessing here we don't. 
This is not we're we're not 

2776
02:14:16,600 --> 02:14:18,640
we're not in authority we're we 
know we have we have strong 

2777
02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:20,400
opinions here. 
We have done a lot of work on 

2778
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:24,920
this but you know we're just 
guessing ET let's talk to ET 

2779
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:26,960
briefly. 
We talked Karth, we talked the 

2780
02:14:26,960 --> 02:14:28,760
potential of Valyria. 
We talked Sarnath. 

2781
02:14:28,840 --> 02:14:31,360
ET deserves a mention. 
We'll talk about ETA little more

2782
02:14:31,360 --> 02:14:34,400
as well on the other episode 
because we'll have reason to. 

2783
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:37,880
But he was extremely impressed 
by it said their cities are far 

2784
02:14:37,880 --> 02:14:40,840
grander than those of Westeros. 
What I wish he had done is 

2785
02:14:40,840 --> 02:14:44,960
compared the cities of ET to 
Sarnor and FLIR and that's I 

2786
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:46,400
don't want Westerosi 
comparisons. 

2787
02:14:46,400 --> 02:14:49,280
We know those are like, that's 
the one we need. 

2788
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:53,360
The like equals like, not the, 
you know, like does not equal 

2789
02:14:53,360 --> 02:14:56,560
far away, he said. 
Even their ruins put ours to 

2790
02:14:56,560 --> 02:15:00,080
shame, which is like woo Dang. 
So yeah, it is a much, much, 

2791
02:15:00,080 --> 02:15:04,200
much older culture and we 
covered them separately in an 

2792
02:15:04,200 --> 02:15:07,040
episode with Chris Stewart of 
the History of China podcast, 

2793
02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:10,440
who is a person that lives in 
China and and does the, you 

2794
02:15:10,440 --> 02:15:13,120
know, he knows quite a lot about
Chinese history given his 

2795
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:18,880
podcast and all. 
And this is part of why Nina is 

2796
02:15:18,880 --> 02:15:23,960
on the five fourth side as a 
wonder of the world, because he 

2797
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:28,400
was awestruck by its marvels. 
Yet nothing is on his list that 

2798
02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:31,480
we know of Like what he's 
awestruck, yet nothing made the 

2799
02:15:31,480 --> 02:15:33,600
cut. 
Well, if the five forts made the

2800
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:37,960
cut, that would sort of solve 
that minor issue here. 

2801
02:15:38,840 --> 02:15:45,000
And the five forts would be a 
great way to show, like, the 

2802
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:47,120
capability of a culture we 
talked about, Hey, this culture 

2803
02:15:47,120 --> 02:15:49,800
is proud of what they did here. 
Well, what's more impressive 

2804
02:15:49,840 --> 02:15:53,880
than this? 
You know, like these gigantic 

2805
02:15:53,880 --> 02:15:56,720
edifices, which let's go ahead 
and talk about. 

2806
02:15:58,040 --> 02:16:03,920
And here's one of the only cases
where I could maybe see Lomas 

2807
02:16:03,920 --> 02:16:05,640
including it without having been
there. 

2808
02:16:05,840 --> 02:16:09,240
But he might just have to verify
this for with his own two eyes, 

2809
02:16:09,240 --> 02:16:11,720
because it's like, really? 
Is it really that big? 

2810
02:16:12,240 --> 02:16:14,640
Here's the quote. 
I want to say I really don't 

2811
02:16:14,640 --> 02:16:16,920
like the idea of him including 
anything on the list that he has

2812
02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:19,520
not seen with his own two eyes. 
That that's my take on. 

2813
02:16:19,520 --> 02:16:23,080
It yeah, I kind of, I'm kind of 
with you there, but this is the 

2814
02:16:23,080 --> 02:16:25,960
one I'm willing to maybe maybe 
say otherwise on. 

2815
02:16:26,280 --> 02:16:28,640
Yeah, I don't like the idea 
that, but I still think it might

2816
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:30,520
be the case here right on. 
Now here's the quote. 

2817
02:16:30,560 --> 02:16:34,680
No discussion of ET would be 
complete without a mention of 

2818
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:38,840
the Five Forts, a line of 
hulking ancient Citadel's that 

2819
02:16:38,840 --> 02:16:43,600
stand along the far northeastern
frontiers of the Golden Empire 

2820
02:16:44,760 --> 02:16:48,400
between the Bleeding Sea, named 
for the characteristic hue of 

2821
02:16:48,400 --> 02:16:52,920
its deep waters, supposedly a 
result of a plant that grows 

2822
02:16:52,920 --> 02:16:57,000
only there, and the Mountains of
the Morn, the Five Forts are 

2823
02:16:57,000 --> 02:17:00,360
very old, older than the Golden 
Empire itself. 

2824
02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:04,120
Some claim they were raised by 
the Pearl Emperor during the 

2825
02:17:04,120 --> 02:17:07,959
morning of the Great Empire to 
keep the Lion of Night and his 

2826
02:17:07,959 --> 02:17:12,559
demons from the Realms of Men. 
And indeed, there is something 

2827
02:17:12,559 --> 02:17:17,240
God like or demonic about the 
monstrous size of the forts. 

2828
02:17:17,440 --> 02:17:22,520
For each of the five is large 
enough to house 10,000 men, and 

2829
02:17:22,520 --> 02:17:26,440
their massive walls stand almost
1000 feet high. 

2830
02:17:26,639 --> 02:17:30,360
As I said at the beginning, this
one has a lot in common with the

2831
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:33,040
wall, and that's why we're 
finishing with it. 

2832
02:17:33,080 --> 02:17:34,959
So like a bookend, we started 
with the Wall, We're going to 

2833
02:17:34,959 --> 02:17:38,760
finish with the five Forts. 
Each one, as it says, monstrous 

2834
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:41,520
in size. 
Yeah, each seems to be carved 

2835
02:17:41,520 --> 02:17:44,760
from a single block, which is 
probably not the case. 

2836
02:17:44,760 --> 02:17:46,840
It's just some sort of 
technology or fusing the 

2837
02:17:46,840 --> 02:17:50,559
Blackstone stuff that he just 
doesn't have an explanation for.

2838
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:53,840
Almost certainly not carved from
one solid slap. 

2839
02:17:53,840 --> 02:17:57,959
That's even crazier than magic, 
given magic exists in this 

2840
02:17:57,959 --> 02:18:03,000
world. 
So if this is the if, this is 

2841
02:18:03,000 --> 02:18:06,000
the sort of fused stone that was
made by Dragons like the 

2842
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:09,840
Valyrian dragon roads, It was a 
different dragon riding culture 

2843
02:18:09,840 --> 02:18:12,320
because these forts predate 
Valyria for sure. 

2844
02:18:12,320 --> 02:18:17,360
It's not like maybe they predate
Valyria, We're like 99% sure of 

2845
02:18:17,360 --> 02:18:21,160
that. 
So that argues that this is at 

2846
02:18:21,160 --> 02:18:24,160
least as old as the Wall, and 
might be older. 

2847
02:18:24,400 --> 02:18:27,240
ET has existed since the Long 
Night and it seems like 

2848
02:18:27,240 --> 02:18:31,160
civilization dawned in the East 
sooner than in Westeros. 

2849
02:18:31,160 --> 02:18:34,559
Like Westeros came, maybe came 
along later as a civilized place

2850
02:18:34,559 --> 02:18:37,680
given it was the haunt of 
children and and giants and 

2851
02:18:37,680 --> 02:18:40,639
stuff before the First Men came.
Well, the First Men came from 

2852
02:18:40,680 --> 02:18:44,600
Esos. 
That definitely shows that Asos 

2853
02:18:44,600 --> 02:18:50,559
had people before Westeros, so 
ET very possibly existed before 

2854
02:18:50,559 --> 02:18:53,160
the First Men came to Westeros. 
The Great Empire of the Dawn 

2855
02:18:53,160 --> 02:18:56,440
perhaps predates all that, which
could mean the five Forts are a 

2856
02:18:56,440 --> 02:19:00,040
lot older than the Wall, like 
potentially 1000 years or more, 

2857
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:02,280
and as Sean said, almost 1000 
feet high. 

2858
02:19:02,280 --> 02:19:05,879
That's 300 feet taller than the 
Wall, which is. 

2859
02:19:05,879 --> 02:19:08,040
George already said that 
probably made the Wall too big. 

2860
02:19:08,240 --> 02:19:10,200
Well, what excuse does he have 
for this thing? 

2861
02:19:10,799 --> 02:19:13,920
Because this was 2014, so he had
already decided to. 

2862
02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:16,240
The wall was too big. 
He's like, you know what, I'm 

2863
02:19:16,240 --> 02:19:17,760
going to go even bigger. 
Screw it. 

2864
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:22,600
And it's also worth noting that 
these forts, we don't know the 

2865
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:26,480
exact dimensions, but the five 
of them and their surrounding, 

2866
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:31,280
Oh well. 
Entrapments are 300 miles 

2867
02:19:31,280 --> 02:19:35,160
across, right? 
So that even if there were only 

2868
02:19:35,160 --> 02:19:36,799
seven, how far across is the 
wall A? 

2869
02:19:37,440 --> 02:19:41,400
100 miles. 
So three times farther across as

2870
02:19:41,440 --> 02:19:44,280
a collective construction, yes. 
Wait, wait, 300? 

2871
02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:47,280
Sorry, 300 miles, 300 miles. 
It's 100 leagues. 100 leagues, 

2872
02:19:47,280 --> 02:19:48,760
300 miles. 
Yeah, that's right. 

2873
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:52,760
Yeah. 
So, similarly as long, right? 

2874
02:19:52,800 --> 02:19:55,840
Yeah, probably deeper. 
Probably deeper. 

2875
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:58,720
Yeah, how wide the wall is from 
one side to the other, but it 

2876
02:19:58,720 --> 02:20:02,120
seems like these structures are 
at least similarly as deep, and 

2877
02:20:02,120 --> 02:20:05,360
they're not as continuously as 
tall, but they get to a greater 

2878
02:20:05,360 --> 02:20:07,800
height overall. 
And also, it's worth noting, the

2879
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:10,240
wall isn't an even perfect 7. 
100 feet all the way. 

2880
02:20:10,320 --> 02:20:12,720
You're right, it's higher. 
At its highest point. 

2881
02:20:13,240 --> 02:20:16,520
Yeah, it's it's higher when it 
like it's that's the the measure

2882
02:20:16,520 --> 02:20:18,600
of the wall itself. 
But yeah it gets a little higher

2883
02:20:18,600 --> 02:20:21,280
when it cools over walls, walls,
hills and stuff like that. 

2884
02:20:21,280 --> 02:20:24,160
So this this is more like a 
desert region. 

2885
02:20:24,160 --> 02:20:26,640
So there's not as maybe the 
ground is a little flatter in 

2886
02:20:26,640 --> 02:20:29,320
general, but there's there's 
hills maybe and stuff like that.

2887
02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:31,880
And yeah, we don't know if 
there's like a a a wall that 

2888
02:20:31,880 --> 02:20:34,760
these forts are connected to. 
It doesn't look like that on the

2889
02:20:34,760 --> 02:20:35,960
map. 
It just looks like there's forts

2890
02:20:35,960 --> 02:20:40,000
there and they're just spaced 
out facing this region of the 

2891
02:20:40,400 --> 02:20:44,320
the land of the Shrikes and all 
these crazy creepy beasts that 

2892
02:20:44,320 --> 02:20:47,240
we hear coming out of very 
similar to the legionary 

2893
02:20:47,240 --> 02:20:49,640
standing on Hadrians wall that 
George was imagining is like, 

2894
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:51,760
what's going to come out of this
wasteland, this frozen. 

2895
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:54,360
This is similar, except it's not
a frozen wasteland. 

2896
02:20:54,360 --> 02:20:58,600
It's a desert wasteland, But has
just as much if not more 

2897
02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:02,160
reputation for strange creatures
that live out there. 

2898
02:21:02,480 --> 02:21:06,200
Lizard men, which might just be 
humans wearing lizard scales we 

2899
02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:09,160
don't know. 
Winged men, all sorts of crazy 

2900
02:21:09,160 --> 02:21:11,720
creepy stuff that's like, you 
know, edge of the map type 

2901
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:15,560
descriptions that the five forts
are holding back just like the 

2902
02:21:15,560 --> 02:21:18,320
walls holding back the others. 
But also things that are just 

2903
02:21:18,600 --> 02:21:20,800
like the free. 
The free folk have a reputation 

2904
02:21:20,800 --> 02:21:23,000
that's undeserved. 
Like you hear like early on in A

2905
02:21:23,000 --> 02:21:25,440
Game of Thrones, You hear like, 
oh, they're drinking blood and, 

2906
02:21:25,760 --> 02:21:28,480
you know, enslaving people and 
all the stuff that isn't really 

2907
02:21:28,480 --> 02:21:30,840
true about the free folk. 
And since you got to dial some 

2908
02:21:30,840 --> 02:21:34,360
of this back down too, which is 
why Ashea made the good points. 

2909
02:21:34,360 --> 02:21:36,840
Like he would have to verify 
this cause. 

2910
02:21:36,840 --> 02:21:40,480
Like the Shrikes and the Lizard 
people, like. 

2911
02:21:42,080 --> 02:21:44,760
So if they're exaggerating about
that, then why not exaggerate 

2912
02:21:44,760 --> 02:21:45,960
about the size of these 
buildings? 

2913
02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:49,160
Although it might be easier for 
him to accept it having seen the

2914
02:21:49,160 --> 02:21:50,120
wall. 
OK. 

2915
02:21:50,120 --> 02:21:51,200
Fairpoint. 
Fairpoint. 

2916
02:21:51,880 --> 02:21:56,280
I have seen a 700 foot 300 mile 
long thing I guess. 

2917
02:21:56,360 --> 02:21:59,200
Guarding an expanse, dark 
expanse of of unknown horrors. 

2918
02:21:59,200 --> 02:22:00,760
Yeah, yeah, you're right. 
He would have already had that 

2919
02:22:00,760 --> 02:22:01,640
experience. 
Very good point. 

2920
02:22:02,160 --> 02:22:07,720
How many the the wall has 14 
towers. 19 No more than 17 

2921
02:22:07,720 --> 02:22:09,400
active at were ever active at 
one time. 

2922
02:22:09,720 --> 02:22:12,280
OK, all right. 
So and so let's say each of them

2923
02:22:12,520 --> 02:22:14,880
were manned by 1000 people. 
Yeah. 

2924
02:22:15,240 --> 02:22:18,080
That reasonable could be. 
I think that might be on the 

2925
02:22:18,080 --> 02:22:21,800
high end 'cause that would be as
many people as two of the forts.

2926
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:23,920
Yeah. 
If on some level we're 

2927
02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,960
considering that that the 
maintenance of the population 

2928
02:22:26,960 --> 02:22:30,160
around the wall as part of its 
marvel, well, it would be 

2929
02:22:30,160 --> 02:22:32,680
multiplied by four or three or 
whatever. 

2930
02:22:32,840 --> 02:22:35,440
For. 
The at least I think for the 

2931
02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:36,880
five, four. 
Now he wouldn't have seen that 

2932
02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:39,080
even if he did go there and see 
the force, all those people 

2933
02:22:39,080 --> 02:22:41,520
wouldn't have been there. 
But again, having seen that at 

2934
02:22:41,520 --> 02:22:45,000
the wall, he could imagine, just
like I see in the Pyramids or 

2935
02:22:45,000 --> 02:22:46,840
Marine, he could imagine what 
these would have been like. 

2936
02:22:47,840 --> 02:22:49,680
Maybe he didn't see it, maybe he
didn't name it. 

2937
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:54,280
But if if I think even if 
everything we know about the 5 

2938
02:22:54,280 --> 02:22:58,240
fourths is cut in half, it's not
exaggerated by when they say 

2939
02:22:58,240 --> 02:23:02,800
it's almost 1000 feet and that 
doesn't mean 900, it means 600. 

2940
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:05,440
I still think the five fourths 
would be 1. 

2941
02:23:05,720 --> 02:23:08,480
Yeah, they're super impressive. 
Of course is whether he saw it 

2942
02:23:08,480 --> 02:23:11,200
or needs to see it to count it. 
Yeah, agreed, agreed. 

2943
02:23:11,360 --> 02:23:14,960
So it's it's it's a strong 
candidate You can see why we've 

2944
02:23:14,960 --> 02:23:21,080
we've made our our point here 
and it's it's one of those where

2945
02:23:21,320 --> 02:23:27,120
this is pretty easily the least 
likely for us to see during the 

2946
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:28,640
events of the Song of Ice and 
Fire. 

2947
02:23:29,240 --> 02:23:33,440
But it's possible we hear about 
it like if the others are 

2948
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:36,360
invading the wall we might hear 
something. 

2949
02:23:36,400 --> 02:23:38,880
You know it's something's coming
on the other side of the world 

2950
02:23:38,880 --> 02:23:41,440
as well and that might be a fun 
thing for George to do to be 

2951
02:23:41,440 --> 02:23:42,880
like, yeah, the Lion of Knight, 
the Other. 

2952
02:23:42,880 --> 02:23:44,840
There's a connection there. 
Who knows? 

2953
02:23:45,640 --> 02:23:49,160
Probably not, but it's a fun 
idea and it could happen. 

2954
02:23:49,160 --> 02:23:52,560
And I I'm. 
I like thinking about that. 

2955
02:23:52,560 --> 02:23:55,440
I like the possibility. 
Yeah, I'm more partial to the 

2956
02:23:55,440 --> 02:23:57,960
idea that they came out of that 
region. 

2957
02:23:57,960 --> 02:24:01,200
They faced a similar threat to 
the others on that side of the 

2958
02:24:01,200 --> 02:24:05,520
world at a different point in 
time, and that's not where it's 

2959
02:24:05,520 --> 02:24:08,240
gonna happen now, but it has 
happened there and. 

2960
02:24:08,240 --> 02:24:11,160
That's a great idea. 
Like the five forts might be 

2961
02:24:11,160 --> 02:24:12,800
what the wall will look like 
after this. 

2962
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:15,760
Books are over when the walls 
broken and no longer useful as 

2963
02:24:15,760 --> 02:24:18,560
defensive thing, but it's still 
standing for the most part. 

2964
02:24:18,680 --> 02:24:21,120
Like it's got chunks missing or 
whatever, but well. 

2965
02:24:21,120 --> 02:24:24,000
I have two questions. 
One, do we know for a fact that 

2966
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:26,160
the wall is solid ice all the 
way through? 

2967
02:24:26,160 --> 02:24:29,040
Or like is there like a core of?
There's a lot of rocks, there's 

2968
02:24:29,080 --> 02:24:30,240
a lot of gravel and rock in it, 
so. 

2969
02:24:30,280 --> 02:24:31,960
Like the idea that you have all 
the ice melts. 

2970
02:24:31,960 --> 02:24:35,160
There's still like that anyways,
for one, But yeah, I think if 

2971
02:24:35,160 --> 02:24:38,360
you I think the point, the place
where we speculated most on this

2972
02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:43,000
might be in our many faced Azora
High episode disease maybe. 

2973
02:24:43,120 --> 02:24:45,920
I believe we speculated at 
length about this particular 

2974
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:49,640
thing because I think there's 
it's, there's so many parallels,

2975
02:24:49,640 --> 02:24:54,160
there's so many myths about 
about the Savior during the Long

2976
02:24:54,160 --> 02:24:57,760
Night in Essos, and in this and 
in these areas, I can't help but

2977
02:24:57,760 --> 02:25:00,280
think that it had to happen as 
well on this side of the world. 

2978
02:25:00,440 --> 02:25:01,760
Yeah, I really like the odd 
idea. 

2979
02:25:01,760 --> 02:25:04,560
I mean it's probably not it's 
this is probably going too far, 

2980
02:25:04,560 --> 02:25:07,120
but using Sean's idea of like 
the wall just or your idea of 

2981
02:25:07,120 --> 02:25:09,000
the wall just melting and that 
showing that there would have 

2982
02:25:09,000 --> 02:25:11,080
could have been something there 
that connected the these 

2983
02:25:11,080 --> 02:25:12,280
castles. 
It's like these castles just 

2984
02:25:12,280 --> 02:25:13,720
sitting there facing this 
wasteland. 

2985
02:25:13,720 --> 02:25:18,000
But what if there was another 
edifice that those fortresses 

2986
02:25:18,000 --> 02:25:20,800
were supporting that is 
something like the wall of 

2987
02:25:20,800 --> 02:25:22,640
Westeros. 
Maybe not an ice wall, but 

2988
02:25:22,920 --> 02:25:24,320
something that's no longer 
standing. 

2989
02:25:24,320 --> 02:25:26,280
Who knows? 
And maybe an ice wall, Maybe the

2990
02:25:26,760 --> 02:25:30,360
maybe the climate changed so 
much that they had an ice wall 

2991
02:25:30,360 --> 02:25:32,800
and that's where they got the 
idea for building the one in 

2992
02:25:32,800 --> 02:25:34,080
Westeros. 
Like, hey, they had one over 

2993
02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:35,640
there. 
Well, definitely changed a lot 

2994
02:25:35,640 --> 02:25:38,400
in that time because I mean we 
have the bleeding sea on its 

2995
02:25:38,400 --> 02:25:42,160
own, we have, we have the great 
sand sea and we have multiple 

2996
02:25:42,160 --> 02:25:44,200
seas that are no longer seas 
there. 

2997
02:25:44,200 --> 02:25:45,920
Yeah, you're right. 
And the Silver Sea supposedly 

2998
02:25:45,920 --> 02:25:48,600
existed in in Dothraki Sea, 
which is even farther West. 

2999
02:25:48,600 --> 02:25:50,520
So yeah, there's a lot of this 
stuff was underwater. 

3000
02:25:50,520 --> 02:25:55,040
So you're right that 10,000 
years ago, the climate, the 

3001
02:25:55,040 --> 02:25:57,120
geography, a lot of things could
have been substantially 

3002
02:25:57,120 --> 02:25:59,720
different in terms of what the 
world looked like, what the 

3003
02:25:59,720 --> 02:26:02,400
weather looked like and and 
where like that might not have 

3004
02:26:02,400 --> 02:26:06,280
been a desert, you know. 
So yeah, that that we can't 

3005
02:26:06,280 --> 02:26:09,040
assume when you go, when you're 
going back that far in time, you

3006
02:26:09,040 --> 02:26:12,240
have to, you have to castle your
imagination has to be very broad

3007
02:26:12,240 --> 02:26:14,080
as to what the in the land what 
are you looking. 

3008
02:26:14,080 --> 02:26:17,080
At here's my idea. 
Then it was the five forts were 

3009
02:26:17,080 --> 02:26:20,440
built by the squishers who were 
lived underneath the water, and 

3010
02:26:20,440 --> 02:26:23,880
it started at the underneath. 
It started underwater, and only 

3011
02:26:24,000 --> 02:26:27,120
recently. 
Like it used to only be like 500

3012
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:29,640
feet above water and 500 feet 
below water. 

3013
02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:31,320
Yeah, they were. 
There was a big Moat. 

3014
02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:35,440
I'm joking to be clear, but the 
idea of how ancient it is, it 

3015
02:26:35,440 --> 02:26:38,120
isn't necessarily built by 
humans. 

3016
02:26:38,440 --> 02:26:40,320
Right. 
I'm not joking about that. 

3017
02:26:40,400 --> 02:26:43,000
That's another one that might 
not be made by man. 

3018
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:45,240
That's true. 
This is definitely built by some

3019
02:26:46,080 --> 02:26:49,080
beings, but not necessarily 
humans. 

3020
02:26:49,080 --> 02:26:50,360
Yes, that's a great point. 
Yeah. 

3021
02:26:50,400 --> 02:26:54,040
And also could be built at least
partly by magic, humans or 

3022
02:26:54,200 --> 02:26:56,320
giants using magic. 
Or Dragons. 

3023
02:26:56,320 --> 02:26:57,880
Or both. 
Yeah, and back to your point 

3024
02:26:57,880 --> 02:26:59,000
about number of people on the 
wall. 

3025
02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:00,040
I want to. 
I just thought of something, 

3026
02:27:00,040 --> 02:27:03,120
Sean. 
When Aegon Conquest began, there

3027
02:27:03,120 --> 02:27:05,680
were 30,000 men in total, 
apparently on the wall all 

3028
02:27:05,920 --> 02:27:09,920
throughout the entire place. 
So still less than 50,000, yeah.

3029
02:27:10,680 --> 02:27:12,680
Yeah. 
And that also is just those 

3030
02:27:12,680 --> 02:27:14,640
buildings. 
It doesn't count anything 

3031
02:27:14,640 --> 02:27:17,040
surrounding those buildings. 
It might have been manned or 

3032
02:27:17,040 --> 02:27:18,840
housed people or whatever else 
too. 

3033
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:20,600
Right on with. 100 miles. 
Worth. 

3034
02:27:20,640 --> 02:27:24,200
So, all right, let's sway in 
with our final guesses of what 

3035
02:27:24,200 --> 02:27:27,280
number 8 and #9 are. 
Are you folks in the chat? 

3036
02:27:27,600 --> 02:27:30,240
Feel free to do the same if 
you're listening after the fact.

3037
02:27:30,400 --> 02:27:33,280
Weigh in in the comments. 
The podcast episode should have 

3038
02:27:33,280 --> 02:27:34,920
a place to weigh in as well. 
We are. 

3039
02:27:34,920 --> 02:27:36,360
We often have a little spot for 
that. 

3040
02:27:36,360 --> 02:27:38,880
If you just check the episode, 
you'll see. 

3041
02:27:39,040 --> 02:27:40,680
Click on the episode in your 
podcast player. 

3042
02:27:40,680 --> 02:27:42,120
You can find a spot for that. 
OK. 

3043
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:45,160
My guess is yeah, 5 forts in the
Hightower. 

3044
02:27:45,160 --> 02:27:49,080
Honorable mention to the mazes. 
I think the mazes are maybe #10.

3045
02:27:49,080 --> 02:27:51,480
I'll put them at #10. 
I'll put the Hightower at number

3046
02:27:51,480 --> 02:27:53,880
95 forces. 
They're not really in an order 

3047
02:27:53,880 --> 02:27:57,080
though. 
So I'll say the mazes are my top

3048
02:27:57,080 --> 02:27:58,040
pick. 
That doesn't make it. 

3049
02:27:58,480 --> 02:28:00,480
OK, so you say 5 fourths in 
Hightower? 

3050
02:28:00,520 --> 02:28:03,840
Nina also says 5 fourths in the 
High Tower, but her honorable 

3051
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:06,520
mention is the Erie, so she's 
got a different #10 than me. 

3052
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:10,080
I'm saying the High Tower and 
the Great Pyramid of Geese 

3053
02:28:10,080 --> 02:28:12,440
Ruins. 
I'm saying he saw Ruins and he 

3054
02:28:12,440 --> 02:28:16,520
still put it on the wonders. 
And honestly a lot of people 

3055
02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:18,720
just assumed that it was one of 
the wonders when I looked up 

3056
02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:21,160
like documenting if I looked at 
like Adam Whiteheads old post 

3057
02:28:21,160 --> 02:28:23,040
about it and he just had it as 
#8. 

3058
02:28:23,040 --> 02:28:26,960
So I think a lot of people kind 
of just assumed that I want it. 

3059
02:28:27,040 --> 02:28:29,920
I want my answer to be Hightower
in the five forts. 

3060
02:28:30,200 --> 02:28:33,520
I don't know that I think he saw
the five forts. 

3061
02:28:33,680 --> 02:28:35,600
I want him to have seen the five
forts. 

3062
02:28:35,600 --> 02:28:38,800
Because if he saw the five 
forts, he saw the bleeding sea. 

3063
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:41,720
And the bleeding sea is one of 
my main guesses for the natural 

3064
02:28:41,720 --> 02:28:43,560
wonders. 
But I'm going to dig into that 

3065
02:28:43,560 --> 02:28:46,240
more in our Part 2 where we 
talk, where we talk about that. 

3066
02:28:46,440 --> 02:28:49,000
But I really think the bleeding 
sea should be a natural wonder. 

3067
02:28:49,000 --> 02:28:51,200
But if he didn't see the five 
forts, he didn't see that. 

3068
02:28:51,440 --> 02:28:55,400
So I want to say both. 
I'm gonna just choose to to say 

3069
02:28:55,400 --> 02:28:58,120
the Great Pyramid, 'cause I I 
kind of just assumed it was for 

3070
02:28:58,120 --> 02:29:00,040
a lot of years too. 
So I I I don't know. 

3071
02:29:00,400 --> 02:29:04,320
I'm. 
Sean, I say the the pyramid of 

3072
02:29:04,320 --> 02:29:07,280
geese and the five forts, those 
are my top 2 picks. 

3073
02:29:08,840 --> 02:29:10,960
And of you know, of course 
they're dependent. 

3074
02:29:10,960 --> 02:29:14,880
They have astracies, right? 
And my number three I I'm 

3075
02:29:14,880 --> 02:29:17,520
hesitant to pick. 
I think it should be, on some 

3076
02:29:17,520 --> 02:29:21,600
level, the high tower, but my 
theory is it's not only 'cause 

3077
02:29:21,600 --> 02:29:24,800
that's where he's from. 
But I like that idea, you know, 

3078
02:29:24,840 --> 02:29:27,200
I guess if I do pick that one, 
that means he's not from there, 

3079
02:29:27,240 --> 02:29:28,080
you know? 
Yeah, I. 

3080
02:29:28,160 --> 02:29:31,040
I like that that idea is 
represented SO33 votes for the 

3081
02:29:31,040 --> 02:29:32,440
five forts out of the four of 
us. 

3082
02:29:32,680 --> 02:29:37,360
Three votes for the Hightower, 2
votes for the Great Pyramid, one

3083
02:29:37,360 --> 02:29:40,120
vote for no. 
That's it. 

3084
02:29:40,120 --> 02:29:42,080
Yeah, and then several on 
different Ongold mentions. 

3085
02:29:42,080 --> 02:29:43,640
We all we had some different 
Ongold mentions there. 

3086
02:29:44,280 --> 02:29:46,000
So Sean, why don't you get a 
cat? 

3087
02:29:46,000 --> 02:29:49,520
While I read our outro, there 
you have it folks. 

3088
02:29:49,520 --> 02:29:52,480
As a group, the the wonders 
mostly fall into a few basic 

3089
02:29:52,480 --> 02:29:54,560
categories. 
Like I said earlier, religion, 

3090
02:29:54,560 --> 02:29:56,240
defense, authority, and 
transportation. 

3091
02:29:56,720 --> 02:30:00,000
These things are often linked. 
Transportation of armies can 

3092
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:02,840
create authority and our 
defense, religion and authority 

3093
02:30:02,840 --> 02:30:05,520
are often very linked. 
You perform core societal 

3094
02:30:05,520 --> 02:30:07,840
functions in wondrous fashion, 
like the Bells, things like 

3095
02:30:07,840 --> 02:30:09,520
that. 
Honestly, I want to give an 

3096
02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:13,400
honorable mention to Harrenhal. 
It's pretty amazing, but we're 

3097
02:30:13,400 --> 02:30:16,120
pretty sure as well it was built
after Lomas's time, right? 

3098
02:30:16,120 --> 02:30:18,280
It may have been close though, 
because we're guessing Lomas was

3099
02:30:18,280 --> 02:30:20,280
born and lived during the 
century of Blood. 

3100
02:30:20,720 --> 02:30:24,960
Harenhal was finished basically 
the end of that era. 

3101
02:30:24,960 --> 02:30:27,640
It's kind of like Aegon's 
conquest marks the end of the 

3102
02:30:27,640 --> 02:30:29,960
century of Blood. 
Well, the building of Aronal 

3103
02:30:30,160 --> 02:30:32,920
coincides with the conquest of 
Heranal or with the the Aegon's 

3104
02:30:32,920 --> 02:30:34,800
conquest. 
Regardless, it might be the most

3105
02:30:34,800 --> 02:30:38,680
impressive place built in the 
world since Lomas's day. 

3106
02:30:38,880 --> 02:30:43,080
Since he lived, Winterfell maybe
deserves a mention as well 

3107
02:30:43,080 --> 02:30:44,960
because of the Hot Springs and 
the glass gardens. 

3108
02:30:44,960 --> 02:30:47,720
It's pretty amazing. 
It's it's less wondrous to us 

3109
02:30:47,720 --> 02:30:50,120
perhaps, but it's pretty darn 
impressive in a low tech world. 

3110
02:30:50,120 --> 02:30:53,560
All that growth and and heat in 
a wintry place is it might make 

3111
02:30:53,560 --> 02:30:56,560
the top 20. 
Winterfell also serves us, 

3112
02:30:56,760 --> 02:30:59,200
serves to remind us what a huge 
topics this is. 

3113
02:30:59,560 --> 02:31:02,040
And the wondrousness of 
Winterfell may increase as we go

3114
02:31:02,040 --> 02:31:05,600
forward and see how it holds up 
in, you know, in the depths of 

3115
02:31:05,600 --> 02:31:07,440
winter. 
But also this reminds us of why 

3116
02:31:07,440 --> 02:31:09,440
this is such a big topic and why
we had to split it. 

3117
02:31:10,520 --> 02:31:14,760
Several comments from some 
listeners here that we'll get 

3118
02:31:14,760 --> 02:31:16,800
through here. 
Good questions, Maxim Howard 

3119
02:31:16,800 --> 02:31:18,920
sends a super chat and says why 
do you think Valerio was unable 

3120
02:31:18,920 --> 02:31:21,080
to find Bravos? 
They've got a 400 foot foot 

3121
02:31:21,080 --> 02:31:23,920
Titan for a front door and 
Valerio was actively looking for

3122
02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:26,840
them with Dragons. 
Fog seems like a bad excuse. 

3123
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:32,680
I'm thinking that the Titan was 
not built that in that era. 

3124
02:31:32,680 --> 02:31:35,680
I think maybe they would have 
built, maybe built it later 

3125
02:31:36,720 --> 02:31:39,640
after the unmasking. 
That's not clear though. 

3126
02:31:39,640 --> 02:31:43,560
We don't know for sure about 
that and I don't know that they 

3127
02:31:43,560 --> 02:31:45,800
were looking that hard for 
Braavos. 

3128
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:49,280
That's what I think. 
I think they weren't looking for

3129
02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:50,080
them. 
They weren't. 

3130
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:53,600
They weren't a rebellious 
country that was trying to, they

3131
02:31:53,600 --> 02:31:55,840
weren't a revolutionary country.
They were just doing their own 

3132
02:31:55,840 --> 02:31:57,960
thing. 
And yeah, I think they weren't 

3133
02:31:58,120 --> 02:32:00,920
weren't actually looking for 
them actively really. 

3134
02:32:00,920 --> 02:32:03,320
It was a it was a refuge for 
escaped slaves, which they 

3135
02:32:03,320 --> 02:32:08,240
didn't like that, but it they're
they had so many slaves. 

3136
02:32:08,240 --> 02:32:13,880
Like, you see that when when 
Bravos offered to pay for the 

3137
02:32:13,880 --> 02:32:18,120
ships that they stole, when they
absconded with them, when they 

3138
02:32:18,120 --> 02:32:19,400
had their, when they founded 
Bravos. 

3139
02:32:19,400 --> 02:32:21,600
They're like, we're not paying 
for the slaves, 'cause we don't 

3140
02:32:21,600 --> 02:32:24,480
believe in slavery, but we stole
your ships. 

3141
02:32:24,600 --> 02:32:26,760
We'll pay for that. 
And Valeria, like, they hardly 

3142
02:32:26,760 --> 02:32:29,120
cared. 
They're like, yeah, sure, we 

3143
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:29,960
don't care. 
That's fine. 

3144
02:32:30,040 --> 02:32:31,960
They're so rich, they just 
didn't care. 

3145
02:32:32,240 --> 02:32:33,560
I see where you're coming from, 
though. 

3146
02:32:33,560 --> 02:32:38,320
Like, it's maybe a little hard 
to explain how a city was 

3147
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:42,440
concealed for so long, but there
may have been some other things 

3148
02:32:42,440 --> 02:32:44,760
they did to keep themselves 
concealed that that we're not 

3149
02:32:45,080 --> 02:32:48,040
aware of yet. 
Joe Magician says. 

3150
02:32:48,040 --> 02:32:50,480
And hey, Joe magician, shout out
Joe magician, Check out Joe 

3151
02:32:50,480 --> 02:32:52,760
Magician's channel. 
Good friend of ours, he says. 

3152
02:32:52,760 --> 02:32:54,680
I think hemp air is probably a 
reference to how a lot of 

3153
02:32:54,680 --> 02:32:56,720
ancient Greek and Roman statues 
used to have clothes but on them

3154
02:32:56,720 --> 02:32:58,080
like mannequins to make them 
seem alive. 

3155
02:32:58,400 --> 02:33:00,440
Oh yeah, good point. 
Good point. 

3156
02:33:00,440 --> 02:33:04,040
That could be related to that, 
although green hair wouldn't 

3157
02:33:04,040 --> 02:33:06,520
make me think of real people in 
ancient in the ancient world. 

3158
02:33:06,520 --> 02:33:09,160
But hey, maybe it does there 
because you got you got green 

3159
02:33:09,160 --> 02:33:10,160
haired. 
People in that world? 

3160
02:33:10,160 --> 02:33:11,480
Exactly. 
They dye their hair. 

3161
02:33:11,480 --> 02:33:13,560
Yeah, you got green hair. 
Tirashi and other. 

3162
02:33:13,640 --> 02:33:14,440
Yeah. 
So, yeah, OK. 

3163
02:33:14,440 --> 02:33:15,000
It works. 
Yeah. 

3164
02:33:15,160 --> 02:33:17,360
All right, Joe Magician says 
wonder what the summer Islanders

3165
02:33:17,360 --> 02:33:19,960
do when they repeal a law. 
Do they Do they have to carve it

3166
02:33:19,960 --> 02:33:24,400
off the tree or put like this is
no longer an an functional law? 

3167
02:33:24,880 --> 02:33:27,200
Yeah, I guess. 
He's cut down a whole tree. 

3168
02:33:27,200 --> 02:33:27,760
You cut the. 
Tree. 

3169
02:33:28,560 --> 02:33:31,640
Over. 
That's hilarious. 

3170
02:33:31,760 --> 02:33:34,440
Probably not very many fires in 
the Summer Isles, I would 

3171
02:33:34,440 --> 02:33:37,440
imagine. 
Yeah, they got to keep that 

3172
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:39,440
under lockdown they got. 
They probably have some people 

3173
02:33:39,440 --> 02:33:41,400
whose job it is to make sure the
tree's. 

3174
02:33:41,440 --> 02:33:43,200
So I was going. 
To say they probably have a 

3175
02:33:43,200 --> 02:33:47,440
dedicated force of firefighters 
and maybe rules about having 

3176
02:33:48,120 --> 02:33:50,200
campfires. 
Around no open flames. 

3177
02:33:50,320 --> 02:33:53,280
Yeah, same same rule like 
similar to the laws you would 

3178
02:33:53,280 --> 02:33:56,800
have at any library, but much 
stricter, You know, like don't. 

3179
02:33:56,800 --> 02:33:59,800
Yeah, no open flames in the in 
the library. 

3180
02:34:01,400 --> 02:34:04,280
Keep your coffee away from the 
the old books. 

3181
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:06,840
Don't bring anything that has 
bugs, that'll eat trees, you 

3182
02:34:06,840 --> 02:34:10,360
know, like invasive species or a
real no, no there. 

3183
02:34:10,440 --> 02:34:12,200
Keep those moths away. 
Yeah, you're right. 

3184
02:34:12,200 --> 02:34:14,000
Keep the rats out. 
Yeah, good point. 

3185
02:34:14,000 --> 02:34:15,800
There's a lot of those things 
that we don't worry about as 

3186
02:34:15,800 --> 02:34:16,680
much or. 
Whatever, right. 

3187
02:34:16,840 --> 02:34:18,640
Like mites. 
Yeah, termites. 

3188
02:34:18,640 --> 02:34:20,720
That's a good point. 
You definitely want cats around 

3189
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:22,600
your around your books, because 
they'll eat those rats. 

3190
02:34:23,440 --> 02:34:25,720
I'll even tell you that it's a 
little, there's a little bit 

3191
02:34:25,720 --> 02:34:30,240
more of awareness or concern of 
like fires, wildfires and stuff 

3192
02:34:30,240 --> 02:34:31,640
here in Colorado than in 
Georgia. 

3193
02:34:31,640 --> 02:34:34,200
There's more signs and rules. 
Oh yeah. 

3194
02:34:34,680 --> 02:34:37,920
Weather alerts and stuff like 
that jet is in a room knocking 

3195
02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:40,640
things down now. 
We. 

3196
02:34:40,640 --> 02:34:41,440
Yeah, we know. 
You're right. 

3197
02:34:41,440 --> 02:34:43,080
Like we're not worried about 
wildfires in Georgia. 

3198
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:44,000
Here. 
It's just too humid. 

3199
02:34:44,000 --> 02:34:46,760
We're like, how could that even.
Yeah, right. 

3200
02:34:46,760 --> 02:34:48,320
It's just not gonna happen. 
Like, it wouldn't. 

3201
02:34:48,320 --> 02:34:50,280
It couldn't burn. 
Like it would just get stuff out

3202
02:34:50,320 --> 02:34:51,440
by the committee. 
Either. 

3203
02:34:51,480 --> 02:34:54,160
That's not the difference out 
here you get when build more 

3204
02:34:54,160 --> 02:34:57,400
momentum goes farther distances.
Our trivia answer the question 

3205
02:34:57,400 --> 02:35:01,000
was, which of the known 7 
wonders has been destroyed in 

3206
02:35:01,440 --> 02:35:03,080
Palace of 1000 rooms. 
There you go. 

3207
02:35:04,400 --> 02:35:08,400
Discord user Minotaur pointed 
out that Vase Dothrak might have

3208
02:35:08,400 --> 02:35:11,960
some minor wonders. 
Probably nothing that's in the 

3209
02:35:11,960 --> 02:35:15,080
top 9, or maybe in the top 20. 
But they've stolen so many 

3210
02:35:15,080 --> 02:35:18,840
statues from places, they've 
destroyed and hauled back so 

3211
02:35:18,840 --> 02:35:22,440
many things like that. 
There might be some pretty cool 

3212
02:35:22,440 --> 02:35:24,680
things there, you know they 
Stothrak by itself probably 

3213
02:35:24,680 --> 02:35:28,880
doesn't qualify, but it might 
because it has so many gods and 

3214
02:35:28,880 --> 02:35:31,160
goddesses in statue form that 
have been hauled there. 

3215
02:35:31,160 --> 02:35:33,800
Danny is awestruck by having 
them all in one place, and Lomas

3216
02:35:33,800 --> 02:35:36,000
probably didn't see this 'cause 
this is something that came 

3217
02:35:36,000 --> 02:35:38,400
along after the unleashing of 
the Dothrak. 

3218
02:35:38,400 --> 02:35:40,760
He would not have seen this. 
Yeah, I I thought of that when 

3219
02:35:40,760 --> 02:35:43,440
we first started getting his 
topic that that might be one, 

3220
02:35:43,840 --> 02:35:46,720
but then realize, no, I don't 
think the timing adds up so. 

3221
02:35:46,920 --> 02:35:49,600
Can I give you what this makes 
me think of Dothraki taking 

3222
02:35:49,600 --> 02:35:52,880
wonders of the world? 
There's a good future drama bit 

3223
02:35:53,160 --> 02:35:58,080
where they go like to the beach 
and they all of, like the world 

3224
02:35:58,080 --> 02:36:01,080
wonders or like all these 
monuments are all at one beach. 

3225
02:36:01,080 --> 02:36:05,080
And they're like, yeah, New New 
York City had had a super 

3226
02:36:05,080 --> 02:36:09,360
villain mayor for a while and he
stole all of the monuments. 

3227
02:36:09,360 --> 02:36:12,040
And then there's like great guy,
great guy, great guy. 

3228
02:36:12,960 --> 02:36:15,440
He put himself on Mount 
Rushmore, like. 

3229
02:36:16,640 --> 02:36:19,040
That's those are Dothraki vibes 
right there for sure. 

3230
02:36:19,040 --> 02:36:21,360
Yeah, they don't have the 
technology the same way, but 

3231
02:36:21,360 --> 02:36:24,160
they like, screw it, we'll haul 
that thing all the way. 

3232
02:36:24,160 --> 02:36:26,480
Well, rather, our slaves will 
haul that thing all the way 

3233
02:36:26,480 --> 02:36:29,280
there. 
Lincoln Washington Drogo. 

3234
02:36:33,640 --> 02:36:36,320
Nice. 
So the mother of mountains, 

3235
02:36:36,320 --> 02:36:40,120
though, might be a candidate for
a natural wonder, however, which

3236
02:36:40,120 --> 02:36:41,680
maybe he did go there before 
that. 

3237
02:36:41,680 --> 02:36:43,960
That might have been a known 
thing before the Dothraki 

3238
02:36:43,960 --> 02:36:47,960
emerged as these great 
conquerors and destroyers, they 

3239
02:36:47,960 --> 02:36:49,440
they certainly existed before 
that. 

3240
02:36:49,440 --> 02:36:52,440
They just were kind of contained
by the Valyrians and and and 

3241
02:36:52,440 --> 02:36:55,080
etcetera. 
Yeah, I think the Dutraki lands 

3242
02:36:55,080 --> 02:36:57,800
and and and province would have 
been one of the more difficult 

3243
02:36:57,800 --> 02:37:00,760
places for him to travel. 
Yeah, it's it's easier to go 

3244
02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:04,200
there now, ironically. 
But he's not around now and. 

3245
02:37:04,280 --> 02:37:07,160
Yeah, I don't know. 
I think it would have been well 

3246
02:37:07,160 --> 02:37:09,880
miss long. 
Strider would not have have been

3247
02:37:09,880 --> 02:37:12,800
striding so long, I think. 
I don't think they would have 

3248
02:37:12,800 --> 02:37:15,760
drawn his interest in that era 
because they're like he might 

3249
02:37:15,760 --> 02:37:20,120
have been curious but they don't
sound like the kind of people 

3250
02:37:20,120 --> 02:37:23,280
that would have wonders you know
because they're they're horse or

3251
02:37:23,280 --> 02:37:26,960
people they just they don't like
planting farm like they think 

3252
02:37:27,680 --> 02:37:30,720
planting crops is is against 
their religion. 

3253
02:37:30,720 --> 02:37:34,000
So yeah, they're not likely 
build large edifices if that's 

3254
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:36,960
their that's their attitude. 
Cultures don't, yeah. 

3255
02:37:37,400 --> 02:37:39,320
Don't build large structures. 
Yeah, exactly. 

3256
02:37:39,320 --> 02:37:41,360
So he they they would not be. 
And and especially because he 

3257
02:37:41,360 --> 02:37:42,680
might not have, he might have 
barely heard of them. 

3258
02:37:42,680 --> 02:37:46,920
They would have been a not well 
known culture in his time. 

3259
02:37:47,120 --> 02:37:50,440
So yeah, he might have kind of 
passed them over, but maybe not,

3260
02:37:50,440 --> 02:37:52,680
maybe not. 
We will certainly discuss the 

3261
02:37:52,680 --> 02:37:55,120
possibility of the Mother of 
Mountains as a candidate, along 

3262
02:37:55,120 --> 02:37:58,120
with all the other ones when we 
discuss Lomas, LON Strider and 

3263
02:37:58,120 --> 02:38:03,120
the wonders made by gods. 
And as I said, we'll be 

3264
02:38:03,120 --> 02:38:05,840
exploring and developing a third
episode, which will not have 

3265
02:38:05,840 --> 02:38:08,240
much to do with Lomas, though 
he'll surely get mentioned where

3266
02:38:08,240 --> 02:38:11,200
we talk about the unnatural 
wonders of the world. 

3267
02:38:11,200 --> 02:38:14,000
Because going through this 
process has drawn up a lot of 

3268
02:38:14,000 --> 02:38:16,480
examples that fit that, and 
we're going to want to compile 

3269
02:38:16,480 --> 02:38:19,160
that and put it in episode form 
for you all to enjoy. 

3270
02:38:19,560 --> 02:38:22,040
Should be good times. 
Can I say, Can you believe we're

3271
02:38:22,040 --> 02:38:24,720
at about we're at almost two 
hours and 50 minutes yeah. 

3272
02:38:25,080 --> 02:38:28,200
And we thought we would do the 
wonders made by man and the 

3273
02:38:28,200 --> 02:38:31,080
natural wonders in one episode 
of. 10 Silly of me. 

3274
02:38:31,360 --> 02:38:33,800
Yeah, exactly. 
So silly. 

3275
02:38:33,800 --> 02:38:35,200
So silly. 
What was I thinking? 

3276
02:38:35,720 --> 02:38:40,000
So here we go with some episodes
that relate to the topics we 

3277
02:38:40,000 --> 02:38:41,920
talked about today. 
There's quite a few. 

3278
02:38:42,720 --> 02:38:44,760
The Doom, of course. 
The Freehold of Valyria. 

3279
02:38:44,760 --> 02:38:47,360
The Wars of Valyria. 
Those are all relevant to the 

3280
02:38:47,360 --> 02:38:51,000
destruction of the Slavers Bay, 
to the wonders that may have 

3281
02:38:51,000 --> 02:38:54,360
been present in Valyria itself. 
Nymeria, Mother Roy, and also 

3282
02:38:54,360 --> 02:38:56,360
related to Valyria since they 
destroyed that. 

3283
02:38:56,880 --> 02:38:59,080
The Century of Blood. 
The fall of Valyria kicked off 

3284
02:38:59,080 --> 02:39:01,080
the Century of Blood and we 
think that's when Lomas may have

3285
02:39:01,080 --> 02:39:02,320
lived. 
It's our best guess anyway. 

3286
02:39:02,480 --> 02:39:04,680
The Kingdom of Sarnor. 
We did a whole episode on them. 

3287
02:39:04,680 --> 02:39:07,400
That's where the Palace of 1000 
Rooms was. 

3288
02:39:08,120 --> 02:39:11,960
We talked about the Roman roads,
which compares to the Valerian 

3289
02:39:11,960 --> 02:39:15,520
roads as well as the wall in the
A Song of Ice and Fire in Rome 

3290
02:39:15,520 --> 02:39:18,280
episode. 
We talked about giants and 

3291
02:39:18,280 --> 02:39:22,240
building things, giants being 
used for that and the bones in 

3292
02:39:22,240 --> 02:39:25,600
the caves of places like Norvas 
which will come up when we 

3293
02:39:25,600 --> 02:39:28,840
discuss the caves of Norvas. 
So When Giants Roamed is our 

3294
02:39:28,840 --> 02:39:32,280
first episode in that series, 
but also Brandon the Builder and

3295
02:39:32,280 --> 02:39:34,640
Patreon episode The Buildings of
Brandon. 

3296
02:39:35,160 --> 02:39:37,760
We have an episode on ET. 
Like I said, we have an episode 

3297
02:39:37,760 --> 02:39:41,160
on the Great Empire of the Dawn 
which is about the same length 

3298
02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:43,760
as this one and it talks about a
little bit more about the Five 

3299
02:39:43,760 --> 02:39:47,520
Forts and Ash Eye and the Fused 
Stone and several related 

3300
02:39:47,520 --> 02:39:49,240
things. 
We have an episode on Castley 

3301
02:39:49,240 --> 02:39:52,400
Rock. 
We have an episode on The Many 

3302
02:39:52,400 --> 02:39:57,720
faced Azora High where we talk 
about the various myth cycles 

3303
02:39:57,920 --> 02:40:01,400
related to saving the world that
have a lot in common and the 

3304
02:40:01,400 --> 02:40:03,960
possibility that Azora High is 
multiple figures. 

3305
02:40:04,000 --> 02:40:07,080
And talk about the five forts. 
Yes, 5 forts comes up in that 

3306
02:40:07,080 --> 02:40:08,880
one as well. 
So yeah, we've had plenty of 

3307
02:40:08,880 --> 02:40:11,400
time, plenty of occasions 
discussed the five forts, none 

3308
02:40:11,400 --> 02:40:13,520
terribly recently, but they're 
there that. 

3309
02:40:13,600 --> 02:40:17,240
Was one of the most exciting 
things to me in like my history 

3310
02:40:17,240 --> 02:40:20,880
of Beat, of of A Song of Ice and
Fire was when the world of Ice 

3311
02:40:20,880 --> 02:40:22,560
and Fire, not the world of Ice 
and Fire, came out, when the 

3312
02:40:22,560 --> 02:40:24,760
maps of ice, the Lands of Ice 
and Fire came. 

3313
02:40:24,840 --> 02:40:27,760
Out and we. 
Saw the five forts on there and 

3314
02:40:27,760 --> 02:40:30,760
some of these other stuff and we
dug in and then like, we only 

3315
02:40:30,760 --> 02:40:34,680
got more, more fuel for those 
theories as as the world of ice 

3316
02:40:34,680 --> 02:40:38,080
and Fire came out and so on and 
it still transfixes me. 

3317
02:40:38,080 --> 02:40:40,440
I always say I'm not much of A 
theorist. 

3318
02:40:40,600 --> 02:40:44,720
It's not really my passion when 
it comes to loving this world. 

3319
02:40:45,000 --> 02:40:46,960
But I love the world building 
theories. 

3320
02:40:46,960 --> 02:40:49,520
I love that type of theory. 
World building theories are fun.

3321
02:40:49,520 --> 02:40:51,000
And that's yeah, it is some of 
our bread and butter. 

3322
02:40:51,000 --> 02:40:53,680
We love that. 
And you we love hearing from you

3323
02:40:53,680 --> 02:40:55,560
on that as well. 
If you have theories about any 

3324
02:40:55,560 --> 02:40:59,440
of these places or want us to 
cover them in in more depth, let

3325
02:40:59,440 --> 02:41:02,160
us know. 
One or both, or anything else 

3326
02:41:02,160 --> 02:41:04,200
you want to let us know or 
comment on. 

3327
02:41:04,400 --> 02:41:07,640
Feel free do that in the 
comments section of either the 

3328
02:41:08,040 --> 02:41:11,320
video or the podcast episode. 
Or send us an e-mail. 

3329
02:41:11,480 --> 02:41:15,480
Or join our Discord or our 
Facebook group and start a 

3330
02:41:15,480 --> 02:41:18,600
discussion that involves a lot 
of your fellow W Orians, and not

3331
02:41:18,600 --> 02:41:22,400
just those of us speaking into 
the microphones. 

3332
02:41:22,880 --> 02:41:25,680
Thanks for coming, everybody. 
We certainly do appreciate your 

3333
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:29,040
presence, you're listening, your
support, and we yeah, we 

3334
02:41:29,040 --> 02:41:32,040
wouldn't be here without you. 
Thanks to Nina, whose notes were

3335
02:41:32,120 --> 02:41:35,120
super invaluable. 
As always, definitely check out 

3336
02:41:35,120 --> 02:41:39,280
good queenalley.tumblr.com for 
more takes related and 

3337
02:41:39,280 --> 02:41:45,040
otherwise, Thanks to Joey, Jesse
Bran and Michael Klarfeld for 

3338
02:41:45,080 --> 02:41:48,600
work on our theme songs and our 
video intro and our maps. 

3339
02:41:48,600 --> 02:41:52,520
Those things all make our show 
look and sounds so nice. 

3340
02:41:52,720 --> 02:41:55,680
So nice. 
Extra thanks to Michael Klarfeld

3341
02:41:55,680 --> 02:41:59,480
for his maps today because we 
used them a lot and we used his 

3342
02:41:59,480 --> 02:42:02,920
art of Castor the Rock. 
And extra thanks to Christina 

3343
02:42:02,920 --> 02:42:07,040
Kay who did the long bridge art 
for us a long time ago and we 

3344
02:42:07,040 --> 02:42:10,040
finally got to debut it. 
And thanks to all the other 

3345
02:42:10,040 --> 02:42:14,160
artists and a special shout out 
to the Unseen Westeros project, 

3346
02:42:14,360 --> 02:42:17,200
which is where I got some of the
artwork I used from. 

3347
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:21,200
Which was if you look up unseen 
Westeros you will see all of the

3348
02:42:21,200 --> 02:42:23,480
art from it. 
But it was just like kind of a a

3349
02:42:23,480 --> 02:42:27,520
fan made project that was 
approved by George but isn't is 

3350
02:42:27,520 --> 02:42:31,920
non canonical. 
But it's really a great look at 

3351
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:33,520
some of these far-flung 
locations. 

3352
02:42:33,520 --> 02:42:36,240
I have quite a few. 
I have a rotating desk, I have 

3353
02:42:36,240 --> 02:42:38,880
rotating desktop art, and a lot 
of them are from unseen 

3354
02:42:38,880 --> 02:42:39,960
Westeros. 
Yeah. 

3355
02:42:40,160 --> 02:42:42,000
Yeah, me too. 
Oh, I I make our. 

3356
02:42:42,640 --> 02:42:44,440
Yeah, you did. 
You put them on my computer. 

3357
02:42:45,000 --> 02:42:48,920
You did that for me, Yes. 
And I thank you for it because 

3358
02:42:48,920 --> 02:42:50,520
my computer, my background is 
awesome. 

3359
02:42:50,520 --> 02:42:52,880
And it it actually occasionally 
inspires me When I'm writing. 

3360
02:42:52,880 --> 02:42:54,760
I'm like, oh, yeah, there it is.
There's one of those things I'm 

3361
02:42:54,760 --> 02:42:57,640
writing about right now, like 
the maze maker image came up 

3362
02:42:58,160 --> 02:43:00,800
like this morning when I was 
putting the finishing touches 

3363
02:43:00,800 --> 02:43:02,200
on. 
I had a couple last ideas I 

3364
02:43:02,200 --> 02:43:03,880
wanted to throw into this 
document and it was like, Oh 

3365
02:43:03,880 --> 02:43:05,160
yeah, look at that maze maker 
stuff. 

3366
02:43:05,640 --> 02:43:07,440
Yeah. 
Keeps me in the world. 

3367
02:43:07,560 --> 02:43:09,400
Those visuals really help keep 
you immersed. 

3368
02:43:09,400 --> 02:43:12,120
It's mostly about the thoughts, 
the imagination, but those 

3369
02:43:12,120 --> 02:43:15,000
visuals really help fire that 
and give it some more dimension.

3370
02:43:15,520 --> 02:43:17,680
Yeah, we'll have a lot to talk 
about with the natural wonders 

3371
02:43:17,680 --> 02:43:21,160
and the unnatural wonders and 
all the other topics that are 

3372
02:43:21,160 --> 02:43:24,000
yet to come on History of 
Westeros podcast, in the future 

3373
02:43:24,320 --> 02:43:26,920
of which we consider that to be 
an endless amount. 

3374
02:43:27,480 --> 02:43:30,600
Until next time, you know what 
to do well. 

3375
02:43:30,600 --> 02:43:45,560
Are rereadus 
None?