We've been saying all season long that we've been looking
forward to the ending. Not that we were in a hurry to
get there, but because we know it's a strong ending.
We know that a strong ending was handed to the showrunners and
that's something nice to look forward to.
It's a nice reassurance and in given how bad a lot of endings
are throughout the the world of television, we just don't get a
lot of quality endings in general.
And as the season went on, we gained confidence in their
ability to pull it off pretty quickly, to be honest, given how
well the early episodes went. And, you know, overall, the
Hedge Night is a story with powerful themes that we were
introduced to in A Song of Ice and Fire somewhat.
And they're intrinsically tied to a whole new set of
characters. I mean new, as opposed to A Song
of Ice and Fire, some of whom we're somewhat familiar with
given their families and other aspects of Westeros that are
familiar as well. Those themes culminate here in
the final episode, just as they do in the final pages of the
novel. The choices made here are the
anchor for the rest of Duncan Egg's lives.
This is how it's all established here.
We get the groundwork for future conflict, future adventures,
future fun. We know what Dunc's values are.
And then living up to those values comes a great personal
cost, but also with the deep personal satisfaction and the
admiration of many like Egg and us.
Dunk was told by Rafe to go out and find a family, and Dunk and
Egg chose each other. Dunk never knew his, and Egg is
better off not knowing his birth family.
It's a moving episode with some new scenes featuring a variety
of tones, the resolution of some themes, as well as most of the
dialogue being carried over from the novella.
As per usual, we dunk our eggs into all that and more on this
episode of History of Westeros Podcast.
Hello and welcome back everybody.
It's not our final episode of Duncan Egg season.
We certainly have at least a wrap up episode next week at the
usual time, but we will be pretty soon shifting back to our
Sunday time slot at 3:00 and we will still have our game streams
at six on Fridays. Sean, how's it going?
You got a a end of season beverage, some sort of
culmination drink. But nothing too special.
It's the green machine with the magic mine and Mountain Dew.
I've it's a pretty good mix. I've experimented a lot and I'm
kind of settling on this so you can call.
That a call that a green apple phosphate.
There's probably not enough Apple in it, but hey there.
You go. I do think the Green Machine has
a lot of apple juice in. It all right Hon.
Cool. I'm excited how they really did
confirm that Dunk was knighted after all.
Yeah, it was very clearly done there, wasn't it?
Yes, there's no doubt whatsoever.
They gave us the exact moment there.
It must have happened. If you all have questions for us
or things you want us to discuss, let us know here live
on the episode or send us an e-mail at
westeroshistory@gmail.com or just hit us up on one of our
socials. We're on pretty much every
social media platform that there is.
Well, most of them. All the big ones for the most
part. At the end of this episode,
we'll mention some others that relate to this one since you
know, you might want to move into other territory.
Now at the end of the season, we have a fun poll for you all.
Now the ending was changed slightly, we're going to discuss
this in more detail. But for now, I think you all
understand the the ramifications of the change, which is that
well, how are they going to handle Egg having Makar's signet
ring, AKA the boot, the thing that proves his identity?
To be clear, he doesn't use that until the mystery night.
He mentions it in the Sworn sword, but he doesn't actually
use it. So our question is, are they
going to resolve that by having Egg steel Makar's signet ring?
There's other ways they can resolve it, but this would be a
nice simple 1. So yes or no?
Did Egg steel make ours signet ring?
That's the poll. We'll reveal what you all think
percentage wise at the end. I'm kind of a toss up
personally, but we'll I. Can see an argument either way
for how it would be difficult for him to steal it, but I and I
also see it a really easy way for him to get it before book 3,
so I'm not too worried about this at all.
Yeah, it it's not a hard, it doesn't have a huge butterfly
fact. There's no way.
Yeah. So either way, there should be a
clever explanation or a simple one.
We almost did a poll about what would Raymond name his kid.
Raymond and Rowan there. Duncan or not Duncan would have
been the choices. I guess it could have been Dunk,
or that's the same name though anyway.
Or is it? What kind of name is Dunk?
Come on, Is it short for Duncan? Yeah, yes.
Short for yes. He can't be named Dunk because
then people will say that's ridiculous like Lionel did.
Corn Emperor sends a super chat, says love.
Y'all can't believe this is the last one.
I know right? But we will be back of course
with more TV show coverage later this year and of course our book
coverage. And Duncan Egg is only going to
be a year out, right? We get this every year for,
well, who knows how long, but it's a bright future.
They didn't ride off into the sunset forever.
They did ride off into the sunset, but not forever.
So let's start as we usually do with our favorite performance
and favorite scene. We will say hey Sean, start us
off here. Who did you pick as your
favorite? Now y'all just went before Sean
answers. I want to point out, of course
in our wrap up episode we're going to do some season long
questions like this. If you have questions that you
want to tackle in regards to that kind of thing, let us know.
Now Sean, take it away. Who do you think was your
favorite performance of Episode 6?
You know, I'll, I'll say that I don't.
I didn't really feel like any one person super stood out.
There was like several different good ones.
But you know, sometimes 1 character, 1 performance really
nails it or gets more air time or whatever.
I think there's a few that maybe could have taken it here, but
I'm going to give it to Peter Claffey to playing Dunk
specifically. Well, a couple reasons I'll say
1 is he did a good job of kind of taking second seat to a lot
of the other people being featured here.
And two, he did a good job of emoting with all that makeup on
his face. You know, they in the behind the
scenes, they kind of describe the process of getting the
bruising and swelling on his face and that I feel like that's
got to be just uncomfortable on top of everything.
It's hard to know what his face looks like and a feel and still
a Moat properly. So I want to give some credit to
that. I'd like to ask him which was
more difficult, acting with this makeup, all this bruised makeup
or with that helmet. Yeah.
This is probably a tough call, maybe not for him, but I I mean,
I would have a tough call guessing anyway.
What about you, Shay? Who is your favorite performance
of the Morrow? I'm going to go with Dexter
Solancell as egg. I thought he again, got a quite
a range of of emotions to show and I found it very
heartbreaking with really no dialogue in that whole sequence
with him going to Aryan's room with the knife and the resonance
with, you know, childhood trauma and abuse and breaking this
cycle. And yeah, it was very moving and
I thought he acted it very, very well.
Loved it. So I'm going to give it to him.
I'm also just partial to Lionel and Raymond.
Give them a shout out. They're always just delightful.
They love Dunk. We love Dunk.
I like that they care about Dunk a bit.
We'll talk about that more later, but I'm going to give it
to the real emotional performance here.
And going to do a similar one. I'm going to go with Sam Spruill
as Makar. He was he was very emotional.
I think this is partly like just my expectations because I was
looking forward to the scene all season long before like the
before the season was announced. This is I'm just looking forward
to this part. And they did it really, really
well. Sam Spruill's range of emotion
just within one scene, two different scenes was really well
done. Hit the the tension in his
forehead and in his eyes. Yeah, just really, really well
done. I was super happy with it.
It really had high expectations for it and and they were met.
Also, I want to shout out to Andy Webb.
He's in he's in every episode, but in small amounts as a as a
whole. I think we'll spend some time
talking about him more perhaps in our wrap up.
But just looking at his performance as a whole,
definitely got to give the guy a shout out.
He was really strong in general. And this was last episode had
some particularly good moments. Well, one in particular, but
also some other good moments in general.
So favorite scene? How about you, Sean?
I see you're you've got a related moment here.
Why not want to give a general shout out to the lingering
injuries of the combatants in the Trial 7?
I really appreciate it. They all had groaned and grimace
when they stood up and had limps and, you know, injuries and
damage on her face and hands and everything.
I thought. I just really appreciate that
they did that. But my favorite scene was easy,
hands down. Like I was surprised at how much
it moved me in that little moment.
She has gotten a screen when Dunk and Egg and Arlen were
writing off. It was like, I don't even know
how to describe. I I like you know when they when
they, you know, they kind of did was presented to us.
You see the the two horses and Dunk and Egg and it's you start
to realize there's a third horse and like, oh, that's weird.
I thought he gave sweet. But wait, if someone's on it,
who Oh, it's Arlen and you know, all that happened in like one
second in my brain. And then suddenly I just felt my
chest lock up and my eyes start to water in a little whimper
came out and like what's happening to me?
Like I could not believe how emotional and how suddenly
emotional I became in that moment.
I was. It's a it's an example of
something. It's like I, I think there's a
lot of times when I think about like it's especially the thing
about your favorite episode of ATV show your favorite season.
It's sometimes it's not fair because, you know, the, the
season finale of the third season, it's built on everything
that happened before and on its own, I don't know how good it
is. It's seen on its own, you know,
maybe isn't even noteworthy. But in the context of everything
else, it just really hit me emotionally.
I was moved. I mean, I, I think I have to
pick it as my best scene of the whole season, maybe of all the
Game of Thrones material out there.
I was never moved to tears like that before.
Wow, Very good. All right, you.
Weren't moved to tears during Game of Thrones or House of the
Dragon, Sean. Not that I can think of.
I mean I got emotional a few times, but I've never, I mean I
had a tear dripped down my face and I chest locked up and like
had to get my breath back and like it was surprising.
You know how much it hit me. I'm more surprised to learn that
it's the only one, but regardless.
But. I loved it.
Too. It was also beautifully filmed,
like the way that you had this dreamy cast to it, the panning
over the the the land. And yeah, I thought it was.
It was filmed very well. Little Field of Dreams, he
almost. I don't want to go around with
that field. I don't want to ramble about it
too much, but I'll tell you I am more often moved to tears at
moments of triumph. Yeah, I feel that's usually when
I kind of well up and get emotional is when someone wins
in the end or does the tough thing, for example.
And when Dunk says justice for Glendon Ball, that like, I don't
know, it wasn't as emotional as this, but that might be among
the most emotional moments I've had.
When someone, you know, makes the stand and achieves the good
thing or whatever else, that that tends to make me well, up.
Sometimes even upset at me 'cause it's sometimes it's like
a cheesy ending to a movie, Like oh God, what am I getting
emotional? That's funny.
Yeah, well, you get to hear that.
You'll have to compare these two scenes When when that line is
said out loud on screen, you'll have to come back and make this
comparison. OK, what about you?
Pick your favorite. My favorite is a scene that also
stirred great emotion in me, but a different sort of emotion,
laughter. I felt that the opening shot of
this episode was one of my favorite moments in any of the
shows ever. I thought it was incredibly
great to just kind of shift the tone and have a kind of a palate
cleanser after how heavy the end of Episode 5 was.
It starts with this kind of jazzy music and a really long
shot of Lionel and his his witch Maester looking down right.
He's a kind of a creepy guy, but like it.
It stays on them for for a minute while this music plays
and then he holds out the wine. It cuts to dunk and it goes to
the title credits. That's it.
It's two shots and I found it to be so effective and it made me
laugh so much. And I think it's what the
audience really needed to just kind of shift the tone again.
And yeah, just brilliant music choices all around from the kind
of anachronistic sounding ones like the ending song, of course,
16 Tons, which was just really well done.
But all the music, the original music, it really set this
episode apart. The whole season I think was
outstanding. I think that's something we were
concerned about. Concerned is maybe an extreme
word, but knowing it's not Ramin Jawadi, it is a consideration is
what will the music be? Will it hold up to that
standard? And it does for me.
I I love the music in this show. Yeah, Dan Roemer killed it.
I agree. It's really, really good.
And I agree. We were like, we we knew it's
like I like you said, it wasn't like we were worried, but it's
like, well, you're, you're removing someone who's amazing.
So like, it's a big shoes to fill.
In general, I thought this episode had the most powerful
music, just a huge variety of tones and emotions, which fit
perfectly because this episode had that too.
And there's a lot of back and forth.
It shifts from sad to triumphant to happy to uncertain to just as
so many characters had a variety of emotions, the music reflected
that. I think my favorite was Egg's
little bit of pedantry at the end, arguing over the number of
kingdoms. That was just so funny and and
just the kind of thing that us in the fandom that love the
details and like getting things right, you know, the nerdy
details. Yeah, technically correct.
He's the best kind of correct right there.
And I love how just flummoxed Dunk was like seven.
He's so he's just like, can't believe it.
He's like what? No, he just cannot accept it.
But it's he just counted them. Like you can't deny that was 9
kingdoms he just named and they're all real kingdoms and
they're all part of what he's like, yeah, what do I do?
How do I I can't argue against that.
But everyone really is wrong. They're like, whoa.
But also shouting out what a Shia named as the centerpiece of
Egg's performance. I would note that scene as one I
wanted to highlight as well. That was just really, really
well done. Not just because of how well
acted it was, the music added a huge amount to this scene as
well. Just while he's looking at the
mirror and while he's approaching Aryan and then when
Makar comes in. Yeah, just all of it.
Yeah, it's really, really good. The soundtrack is out now, as I
think. Did you say that?
If not, the soundtrack is out now and we'll talk about it a
little more during the wrap up next week.
Goldilocks plus two Bears says Dunk shows the ring to Rohan and
the Sworn Sword. Oh, OK.
I forgot. I haven't reread The Sworn Sword
recently. Certainly will soon.
I'm looking forward to rereading both of them again.
But yeah, I guess I forgot that. Cool.
So that still doesn't change too much.
It gives them a little less time to resolve it, but it's still
over a year before the next story begins or about a year
anyway. Lionel's recruitment pitch.
Let's talk about that. It's as a Shaya said, it's
pretty funny how the scene starts.
No dialogue, kind of like several other moments in this
episode is dialogue free. Just the end as well as as we
just talked about. So these are it's bookending.
And as a Shay also said, it's very valuable to start this off
with a little bit of humor because the episode has a lot of
sadness and it's kind of you're kind of expecting it to end with
begin with sadness because it was just how the last episode
ended. You would not expect some joking
at the beginning, but it was done in a way that is just was
really effective. Yeah.
And of course he's a terrible maester begone, which that's
really funny. But yeah, noticed.
And we tried to do some zooming in and and analyzing here of his
chain. It's very cool.
The chain isn't just a bunch of metals.
They're shaped in certain ways that give away what they are in
in addition to using the colors as clues.
So. So we've got a little quick deep
dive here into the Maestros chain.
I notice he doesn't have the hemorrhoid link.
But no, we've, we've always been a little bit really into the
Maester's chains. The links, the links.
We know what a lot of the links stand for.
We don't know what they, what probably half the links could
stand for. I want to pull up on the screen
as reference. This is from Game of Thrones.
This is what their Maester links look like in that show.
And it also has a very handily a visual of what they are
associated with. You see, we get black iron for
ravenry, copper for history, iron for Warcraft, silver for
medicine, Valyrian steel for magic, gold for like economics
money, bronze for astronomy, right?
They add steel for construction that isn't in the books.
They added that for the show. We don't know what steel is.
So I thought that was kind of interesting.
That makes a lot of sense, adding steel for that.
We know steel was one of the one, one of the links.
We just didn't know which one it was for.
So that that's a good, good choice, I'd say, yeah.
I think it's a very good choice. So to go on from that, I would
say that, OK, well, we see that as a comparison.
Well, what do we see here? We see this is an iron.
We're guessing that this is for Warcraft.
That's definitely an anvil, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. See.
And then we see here, it's funny because it kind of looks like a
money symbol. And I don't know that it would
look like our currency symbols, but I think it looks very much
like that's the yellow gold for economics.
To me. It's hard to say what we think
this one is. So if you have guesses, I'd love
to hear them. We don't get a good shot at
them. And I'm going to say this
maester doesn't have his silver medicine chain.
That's, that's my, that's my big joke here is that that's why
he's so incompetent. He's got Warcraft and money, but
he does not know how to heal him because he's wrong.
He's wrong. He tells him he's mortified and
going to die and he doesn't. He doesn't, Yeah.
So. The maester was clearly wrong.
You know, silver does have AI. Don't know, like an
antimicrobial. It does.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that's why it's silver, exactly, which I think we talk
about What is it like in an old The Citadel episode, we.
We talked about it once or twice.
Yeah. We even had a sponsor that put
silver in their in their clothes to make them have less sweat and
odor. Yeah, yeah.
You could put silver in like water to disinfect it or to
decontaminate it, for example. So Dunk gets a little upset at
Lionel's disrespect towards Baylor, but Lionel is not
abashed at all. He pushes back even harder.
It's a bad sign for House Targaryen when even Baylor is
disliked. Not that most people dislike
Baylor. I think that Lionel doesn't like
the Targaryens and maybe Baylor wasn't so bad or but he alone
doesn't make up for the rest of them.
It may be another way to look at it.
He he makes an interesting point about Baylor risking the least
by far of any of them. He's definitely goes too far by
saying he risked nothing. He clearly was something or he
wouldn't have ended up dead. But it he he does make a good
point that you know, the all those other people fought for
him and they had more to lose and they were risking more than
than Baylor was. Even though Baylor got maybe
unlucky, he was only risking danger from half the people on
the field or less, whereas the rest of them were risking it
from all seven of the well, let's you can eliminate Deron 6
of the others. So and he says the gods do not
favor of fraud. So he appeals to the higher
authority to it's a way to put an A period on that argument.
We ought we discussed earlier how maybe one of the guys in
Dunk 7 was out for glory and the others all had good reasons
besides that maybe friendship or or justice.
Lionel might have been the exception.
He might have just been there because he wanted some glory and
then Baylor goes and dies and steals all the attention.
So I don't know, maybe a little of that going on here or there.
What did y'all think about his his speech or his take on
Baylor? I was a little surprised.
What about you, Sean? Yeah, I was a little surprised.
I think he makes interesting points, but still, he's being a
little unfair and and you can see dunk doesn't quite buy it
either. You know what I mean?
Talks like, look, I get what you're saying, but Baylor just
died for me, you know, like maybe in theory he's risking
less, but that doesn't mean he's risking nothing.
And also he's risking less and that maybe he, you could, you
know, reasonably are you he's facing less danger, but there's
other things he's risking there, like his reputation, his family.
And you know, it's, I just think that Lionel brings up things
that you might not have thought of, but when you do think of
them and analyze them, I think in the end that he's being a
little unfair about it. Yeah, I thought that it was also
interesting. You know, he says only good
dragon is a dead dragon, right? Which is even beyond speaking to
Baylor and him being a fraud or anything like that to Dunk in
his head. He's like, well, I know and love
Egg and he's a Targaryen and maybe he's hasn't had a good
record with Aryan or with Deron, but he does know and care about
two Targaryens in Baylor's memory and an Egg now.
And so I think it's just a non starter for Dunk.
Like even if maybe it would be smart for him to go with some
some big Lord and get taken care of and learn and all of these
things that makes sense. But he's just he's disillusioned
as it is. And then he's specifically
critical of this, this really harsh statement, I think.
It would be a similar unfairness, a prejudice, for for
Lionel to say all Targaryens are bad As for Dunk to say all
nobles are bad. Right.
Like he's had some experience, like he's got a new perspective
on the world and he's seen the nobles.
Knights aren't necessarily as good as you would think or hope
or, you know, his world view is coming into question, but that
doesn't mean they're all bad. He thinks Lionel is at least OK.
And Baylor, you know that there's you know, even if there
is this general belief or opinion or truth, that doesn't
mean there aren't exceptions. And Lionel is not allowing for
those and not allowing for them to dunk in this moment when
dunk, it's a particularly important to dunk.
It's it's slightly unwise. Even the way Lionel's presenting
this, even even if he was more correct, he's still being unwise
in this moment. Yeah, it's not, it's not the
best recruitment pitch. He's not reading the room or
which the room is one person. But yeah, he, he, he's also, I
don't think Lionel is fully aware of just how close he is to
Egg. I think that's, that's kind of
went under the radar for a lot of the, the combatants in the
trial. I think maybe Raymond clocked
it, but that might be about it. And he don't want, he doesn't
want to immediately sign up for someone that's saying he's going
to oppose the Targaryens because Egg is on that side.
It it becomes a warning. But almost like a less than a
warning in a sense. It's more of a threat almost.
I'm going to quote one of our Facebook group members here,
Dicky Whiteside, who said about the Baratheans.
These guys are built like human siege engines.
Give them peace too long and they start twitching.
Lionel's basically sitting there post trial of seven still
buzzing from the fight, patching up dunk like a bro.
And then he drops that line about a war on the horizon where
they could team up and be unstoppable.
But he's not predicting the future so much as manifesting
it. And I agree with that.
We know from the histories that there isn't a war coming anytime
soon, so if he's thinking of 1 then it might be him thinking of
starting it. However, I will say two things
about that that maybe makes Sir Lionel's prediction a little
more accurate or at least reasonable. 1 is that all
throughout the episode and throughout the season, we see a
lot of disappointment, if not outright hatred of the
Targaryens. It manifested a lot of different
places. Right here is 1.
Raymonds takes the The number of people at the funeral is kind of
conspicuously small. There's a lot of little hints
and big hints about how the Targaryens are losing their
grip. It also speaks to why Aryan was
so, like, intent on pushing back against that.
He feels that and he won't. He hates it.
So that's a big part of this. And yeah, so you can see that
Lionel is he's he's rousing a little bit.
He's trying to aiming for a fight rather than preparing for
one. I thought there was a little bit
of a subtle hint that Lionel's using Dunk a little bit.
When he when he stood up, he used Dunk's leg to help him
stand up. It was like, I think it's a
subtle he's like, you're using him a little bit, aren't you?
Maybe he's using him a lot. Yeah, I think Dunk would have
been unwise to actually take Lionel up on it.
I think he would be wise to be under the umbrella of someone
with more power of a Lord or something like that.
But Lionel is capricious. He could turn on you on a dime.
He could just pick up and leave and you're just left at the
castle and you don't know when he's going to come back.
I just think it's, it's, it's not really a good lifestyle to
to live underneath him. Yeah, I was going to say, even
if he's not necessarily using him, he was being inconsiderate
when he uses injured leg to push off of, to stand up and the same
way he's been inconsiderate of talking bad about Baylor when he
just died for him. Yeah, there's a couple of like,
maybe not red flags, but orange flags at the least.
They might be red flags. So there's a that that line.
There's a war coming is also, I believe it's meant to be an
Easter egg. It's a throwback to Robert
Baratheon saying that same thing.
And I think the second episode of Game of Thrones, he says
there's a war coming, Ned. I don't know who it is or who
will be fighting, but, you know, it's like it's kind of a weird
thing to say. I don't know who it is where
we'll be fighting, but yeah. But anyway.
But he wasn't wrong, Robert. And this is the same kind of
energy, like there's a war coming.
Yeah, there's always kind of a war coming.
So the second Black Fire Rebellion, as we all know deep
in the fandom, is not really a war.
It's also three years away. The actual next significant war
is a decade away, and that's the Black Flyer 3, which,
interestingly enough, might be. I would have a hard time
guessing which season of Duncan Egg Black Flyer 3 would be, but
it should be a season that's extremely important for us,
seeing characters that we haven't seen in a while.
We're not going to see Raymond in Season 2 or three.
Maybe we'll see him in Season 4. That doesn't seem very likely
either, but by the time of the third Black Fire, there's a lot
of characters that'll be back. Aryan will be back by then.
For example, we we probably won't see Aryan again until
then, but that's a good chance we see him then.
So I think that's kind of neat. He also makes that little a
joke, not a joke, but Easter egg remark.
Have you ever been to Tarth? Like, oh, Oh well, he will be.
He will be. Oh yes, he will be to Tarth.
I think there's a chance that Raymond and maybe some others
can make a cameo in the third story.
I, I, you know, they wouldn't have to really change anything
too much just to have them pop up.
And aside from that, they could have them pop up in flashbacks
too. They seem to set a strong
precedent of that. And that could be a way that
even when they're doing one thing, Duncan, remember when we
went and visited Raymond at his new cider house or whatever,
there's ways that could work it in reasonable ways.
Yeah. I mean, I think we'll see that
when we see Amen in Old Town or if we see Dorn that that would
be be a flash. So in that type of montage of
their travels, you could see them at do barrel with the baby,
you know, like as you see a bunch of dads.
Baby named Duncan. Yeah, baby Duncan, but yeah, I,
I. I think we.
Will get montage flashbacks in Season 2 that will cover some of
these things. And yeah, maybe we'll see
Raymond. That would be nice.
So we would love to see Raymond. Yeah.
So Raymond is the exception or one of the few exceptions.
Baylor is another one that yes, you met, you brought this up,
Sean, bitter disappointment, disillusionment might be a
better word for Dunk's experience of the of the
nobility and knighthood. He's just I'm done with Princess
is related to that. He he pushed so hard against.
He's so disappointed, so disillusioned that he had that
hard line stance that of course he loosens up on by the end
because he realizes that, you know, EG needs him.
We'll we'll go into more detail on that later.
But yeah, he still feels, you know, guilty.
Baylor is a good guy. He feels guilty about that.
He has survivor's guilt. He feels bad about the
Humphreys, and then Lionel just keeps going, calls Baylor's
funeral, the roast. Like, whoa, the roast, man, come
on, that's something else. So, yeah.
And that just isn't helping, right?
Like is if Dunk is disappointed with the nobility and how they
behave, this is not the worst thing compared to his prior
experiences throughout the tournament.
But this isn't helping. Talking about Peter Clappy's
performance and then, you know, Shay, you talked a lot about
that intra moment with the music, which I also loved and
how it was sort of a tonal shift.
But kind of what you're saying right now is he said that Dunk
isn't Dunk is still feeling miserable both physically and
emotionally, psychologically. And it you know, that we get the
scene. It's kind of light with Lionel
and the maestro looking over him.
But we cut the dunk and he's got that $1000 stare or a Yeah 1
yard scare. Yeah, one eye.
That was an eye and one Oh yeah, he Ravian, he slipped.
He. Hands him the drink and he
doesn't drink it. He just hands him the his.
Yeah, he doesn't even take a sip.
Yeah, yeah, Donk is still and and through the course of the
episode is still somewhat morose and he's trying to bring himself
up to some of the other people's, I don't know,
positivity, if you will. But he's he is still kind of
lost. I mean, he's talking about how
he brings pain and suffering to everyone, right?
Like he's speaking in such hyperbole, you know?
Right. And so, yeah, that speaks to his
state of mind. Yeah, like he's probably still
thinking. He's probably thinking about
Rafe as well. And yeah, just.
Yeah, maybe Tanzel too. Yeah, exactly.
It's very meaningful. You're right.
He's he's probably in as much emotional pain as he is physical
pain. That's certainly how it's
suggested in the book. He thinks about how Baylor saved
him twice because he also the advice about the wine and he he
thinks about how he looks at his scar.
He's always going to think of Baylor, the funeral.
Who are those people? We had a little excitement about
who these people are. And honestly, it was a little
bit of a disappointment. We don't really know still, to
be honest, but we do know that it's mostly or if not entirely
not who we hoped. At first I thought the person on
the end might actually be Mataris, which is Valar's
younger brother, Baylor's other son.
But no, that's the septon. Again, shout out to young Septon
who, but we talked about this a lot before so let's not get into
it, But I remain charmed by their decision to give us a
young Septan, a role that is normally cast as an old man, You
know, just just a cool choice. And I think that old man next to
Makar, the silver haired Gray hair guy, is a septan as well.
We weren't sure about him. I guess that he might even be
Prince Aries, but I really don't think so.
I think they I. Have a different guest.
I think they did away with the idea that this time a lot of
time passed that they'd corresponded back and forth
significantly with the king about how he was going to be
dressed. And thus they were just more
less time passed. There wasn't more people
attending. The reason I also think that
guy's a septon is he's referred to at the end or a septon is
referred to in the final epilogue scene and that guy
sitting there walking along with him, he's not riding.
So that that puts him on a lower rank.
But I mean, why? Why?
Why not just be the Ashford septon that they're referring
to? That's the septon.
No, he's that. No, he said the SEPTA, he's
talking about their septon because I will ask the septon.
He didn't say one of the septons.
I don't think the Ashford Septon is who they could be referring
to. I think he's talking about one
they were traveling with in the show.
Why would the Ashford septon know where AG is That has no,
that doesn't. There's no connection there.
Regardless, my guess is because the woman is crying there.
I think we think that's that could be Elena Targaryen and she
married into House Plum. His necklace looks just like the
plum sigil. Yeah, that's a great guess.
I like that a lot. I would I would be more
satisfied if that's what it is, then if it's accepted.
But he's pretty richly dressed though.
Yeah, I mean, but he's. Not dressed like the other
septon at all. Like when he's not dressed.
Dressed like a septon. He is.
That does look like a septon to me.
He's dressed like a royal septon.
He's not. Dressed like a day-to-day
septon. He's dressed like a Targaryen
Septon would be, but that doesn't mean that's what he is.
Definitely doesn't mean that's what he is.
Yeah, I don't. I do want to say I don't think
he is Targaryen specifically because there's no red.
The other Targaryen is all that black and red and he doesn't
have the red, but he might be like from the Red Keep and be
more royally dressed in the other septon.
But yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure.
Yeah. I think there's a good chance
we'll be able to find out who they meant that character to be.
We we had a great time discussing who might be there
with Sir Manfred because Manfred Dondarian is sitting there.
Of course, it's likely to be some other Dondarians.
But why are they both silver haired and young?
Our best guess is that, well, he he liked to have redheaded sex
workers during the trial. Now he he's just color
coordinating his sex workers. You know, the guy had some
silver haired ones for this funeral, you know.
Yeah. So I, I do like that Elena
Targaryen guest quite a bit. I, I favor that one.
I would prefer to be that even if I'm, you know, it's, it's not
a whole lot to go on here. I agree that the crying means
something, but people just cry at funerals.
Yeah, I mean, she's the only one that's visibly crying.
So I like to think that she's an old lady who grew up with him
and, you know, had him on her knee as a kid and all that.
That's my head cannon. I don't know that we'll find out
unless the actor is post on Instagram.
And at that age, I don't know that they're most likely to be
posting this old lady, you know, But like, but for example, Kiera
of Tie Rush has been posting a lot of BTS of her, but she does
have that beautiful pink hair. You also see her at the ending
scene, which we'll talk about when we get there.
But you see her a couple times. We do know that you know she she
has a a a longer history with the Targaryen dynasty than just
this. Absolutely.
Yeah, sure. She's got a a future that's not
so great in in front of her with them.
So it was a great call for the camera to focus on Makar.
We got to see Egg. I like your theory, Ishaya, that
Egg is wearing a hat because Makar didn't want his bald head
shown off. He wanted to like, cover that
up. And I think that's a very
sensible guess for that I don't have.
A He's Taylor. Immediately.
He's like, I need you to make a matching hat for my son.
He has to serve. He has to serve.
He must serve, yes. Makar may not be a great father,
but he is. He loves his children Despite
that. And he's a fashionista.
He's a fashion he's proud of. They have to look good, right?
Yeah. So that was his once again, Sam
Spruill did a great job here with his.
His expression was a perfect mix of of strength and pain and
guilt and just that combination is pretty hard to pull off.
And like you said, Sean, I appreciate the injuries.
You can see the injury on his face and later he's limping.
However, you know, probably didn't get injured as those two
Kings guard. They look like they were just
totally fine. You can now we don't get a close
up of them, so we don't know for sure, but we see them in the
background in the at the burial and they are, they're both
walking around normally. So neither of them are limping
at the very least. But there was 3 Kings guard and
he the third one's not there anymore.
So I think he got badly hurt. And that that does track with
the novella. There was one of them that that
at least one of them who got badly hurt.
So they. Got some black eyes here.
You can see I zoomed in on them. Oh, really?
Yeah, they, I got some. I got some bruises.
Look at his his brow. Very good.
Yeah. Yeah, those Kings guard, one of
them never lost his horse. That was impressive.
Like, you could see near the end when Dunk is dragging, there's
still a Kings guard on his horse.
And I was like, good Dang, no wonder that guy's a Kingsguard.
He took Baylor's advice. That's right, keep keep your
horse like, Oh yeah, just simple as that.
Just don't fall off your showers.
Then there's the the scene with Valar, which was very well done.
I thought mostly straight from the book, except for the dyed in
my armor line, which was that was a really good line.
I thought they extended the scene slightly, which was
probably a good idea to it would have been really quick
otherwise. And that was a very deep I
thought line to add. One, I do want to say I did
appreciate that line and that scene.
That's another example of someone who maybe could have
been picked for best performance, but it was just so
short. But Valor did, the actor did
really well in that moment with that scene.
But I, I want to point out one of my nitpicks, maybe my only
real nitpick, but also connected to another thought I had about
the nature of the funeral. So there might have been so few
people there, at least partly because the Targaryens didn't
want other people there. Think about where it was.
It was up high on that plateau. It wasn't super accessible.
They didn't do it in the middle of the Ashford tourney or the
Ashford Castle. It was kind of removed and
difficult to get to, right? Remember, Dunk looked up and saw
the smoke coming and, you know, kind of decided to go up there.
They remember this scene was kind of split between gathering
around the pirate and Dunk showing up with LAR.
Well, Sean, can I point out what I have on the screen right now?
I don't know if you remember this, but in the BTS, which
we'll get way more into the BTS next week in our wrap up, But in
the BTS they do show the concept art originally has a line of
people up along like the cliffside watching and as they
they they, they pared it down quite a lot, but I think they
they. I don't think it's the
accessibility, Sean. I think it's the the
overwhelming theme of people don't like the Targaryens.
Like even remember what was the first thing Raymond says to
Dunk? Because I'm surprised you went
to the funeral. It's like, even even though he
was crying over Baylor, why would he be surprised?
You know what I mean? So I think that's just like this
really pervasive theme. Well, it it could be he was
surprised because Dunk might not be welcome there.
Like, you're the one that calls this, what are you doing here?
It might have been. I mean, just think about the
moment whenever they're all standing around mourning Baylor
and and dunk walks up is everyone like, oh, Don come up.
We're so glad they'd be like, what are you doing here?
I think would have been now that doesn't necessarily explain Lord
Ashford or many other people. I wonder too for based on a
concept or it might have just been like a filming a production
cost decision of how to get the people and where they stand and.
I seriously like that. That's that's that's we're not
talking. We're talking small money for
just a few more people in the shot.
Like I don't, I really doubt that they could also just use
CGI for that, like, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't, I mean. That concept art looks like a
real shot. It doesn't look like that.
Exactly. Yeah.
So I doubt, I really doubt that's it.
One or the other. My nitpick is Dunk was so beaten
up and bruised and stabbed in his legs, how did he walk up
that freaking mountain? How did he get out there?
He would have. Been a sheer determination that
crunch his armpit must have hurt a lot.
I know that's it. No, my connected little nitpick
is it several times he kind of put his hand up under it to kind
of support it because it's not like a modern technology cushion
crutch. It's just a piece of wood.
And so he would put his hand there to kind of create
cushioning between the wood and his arm.
But that's the hand that got a knife step through it like
anyway. Well, you can.
Doesn't mean you can't still use it a little bit.
You know, it was wrapped up really big.
Yeah. Anyway, I, I think we, we
shouldn't get into the assumption to the assumption
game on of injuries. We always argue when that
happens because we do. We just don't know how bad they
are. Yeah, I just wanted to talk
about Oscar Morgan here real quick.
Who played Velar? He didn't get the script until
the table read. And so he said in the BTS that
it was it was quite a different tone that he because he only got
his his stuff, which is really serious.
And so then he reads it there and he only then finds out he's
like, what show am I on? Like it was so different, which
I think is a funny. Thing.
But yeah, very, very limited role.
But he did a very good job. And I also really liked that he
had the same kind of soft spoken voice as his father thought that
that was a cool. Whether they cast it like that
or whether he he, I, I don't know, his normal speaking voice
is my point. I don't know if he put that
voice on or if he just talks like that.
They used that nice transition technique for him saying be
gone. Sir Duncan, you don't see him
say that. It's a voice over as Dunk is be
gone already. He's in the in the camp after
the funeral limping around there.
So let's move to that scene. We get the delightful end for
Raymond and Rowan. It's a few there's a few people
staring at him, but not too much.
It's not, you know, it's not overwhelming, but he still feels
like everyone blames him for Baylor's death, which, you know,
connects to what you were saying Sean about maybe he's wouldn't
be welcome there, which I think that's a good theory.
And, and even Raymond, who's very nice to dunk is like he's
like just feels like everybody blames me for Baylor's death.
And Raymond's like, I can't really say you're wrong, but I
don't blame you for Baylor's death because he.
Thanks him for Baylor's death. Yeah, it's true.
And this is a little bit of a set up for when Makar opines on
the subject later when he's like, yeah, people are going to
say that for the rest of your life, they're going to say it
about me, etcetera. So I, I really like this because
sure, they, they not only did they develop Raymond Moore going
into the the final scene, but given that and given the way the
novella ends kind of abruptly in terms of these other characters,
I appreciated them giving an ending, especially given what we
said before that we might not see Raymond for quite some time,
except for the possibility of flashbacks, which I, I do hold
out some hope for that. That sounds good.
So there's a lot of drops here, a lot of a lot of Easter eggs
and lines from the book. Basically several lines he says
in the book before the trial, come here or just after the
trial, come here. Basically the line about, you
know, better unripe green apple than a wormy one.
That's actually before the trial here.
It's after small change that comment about I think I broke
one of his ribs pretty much straight from the book as well.
That's really good. He says my father wants to start
a new barreling operation. What's the name of the castle?
He's going to found a new barrel.
Another actually, another thing that ties into y'all's idea
about the flashback is what do they they go to drink that
fearsomely strong cider at the Quill and Tanker?
Well, they could, you know, make a comparison.
He's like, well, we drank Raymond cider.
We can compare it to the Quill and Tanker Cider.
Her real name is Rowan Robinson, right?
So that's cool that she's Lady Rowan in the.
She was so good. They're like, let's just, let's
just name your character after you, which I love.
Did you guys get the vibe that she he doesn't know like who she
was? He doesn't know that she was a
sex worker. OK, I there's a lot of debate
about this in the chat and I want to say there's a few
arguments for it. One, she's a very beautiful
woman. She's been up.
She's she's been up in the stands like in the noble stands,
the Manfred most recently, but that's again and when when
Raymond was was down on the field.
So he wasn't up there. We don't know that she was up on
the stands at any moment prior to that.
You do think that through partying and stuff that Raymond
would have seen Manfred with all of these red haired women and
you think Raymond might have noticed this beautiful woman and
said recognized her. It's very possible.
It's also just as possible that he simply has not seen them
together and he doesn't know this woman.
Like it is totally impossible. You can't say it's impossible as
I guess is my point. Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah. So you could tell me either way.
I I don't think he knows. I think he's clueless.
And that's and Dunk sees that he's clueless and is not his
place to tell him right there. I.
Mean he. I think it's that Red Rowan
didn't stop Dunk's upward movement, his upward momentum
in, in society, in in the class system, right?
And he can't do that to her. This is her making a lying about
something, her one shot. Just like Dunk lied about being
a knight, she's lying about having Raymond's baby.
And this is how they're going to raise their cast in life.
And Dunk can't blow her spot up. Yeah.
She's like, yeah, she's like a sister in in, in, in terms of
their social position, their hierarchy.
Yeah. That's my read also, by the way,
that that even that look you had on screen a second ago, she's
looking at like I did it too, huh?
Good job, right? She acts like she's never met
him. Remember that.
That's great. She's like, I'm pleased to meet
you, Sir. Duncan.
He's. Like which?
Points. To the fact that that she's
saying that the party line here is I'm a lady named Rowan and
you don't know me and I was never with Manfred and all of
these things, right? Which again says that Raymond
has no idea. It's crazy the idea that like he
might interact with Manfred. I know they're not the closest,
but I probably she talked to Manfred and said hey.
Yeah. I think so I.
Can also imagine Manford doesn't remember her from any girl,
she's just some other, you know what I mean?
He knows her well enough. He was the girl.
She was the girl he brought up to the stands.
I, I, I think he, he knows her. I, I don't think we, we have
that supported that. He just has no memory for women.
So I love her. Her line of feels like a boy.
And she he's like he just, he totally swallows.
It's like, yeah, it feels like a boy.
That's women can tell that right?
He's just sure that that makes sense.
I love too that dunk is your dunk is not normally the guy you
want to try to do a wink nod type thing with.
He'd be like, what? You know, like, I don't get it.
But no, he got this one. Yeah, 'cause it's like you said
of Shea, it's because of their prior conversation about social
mobility and, and how they're risking their they have to risk
their bodies to for the entertainment of others.
And unless they get another choice and a chance like this
and. And yeah, and it is a chance of
a lifetime. But it is controversial among a
lot of people. It is Dunk lying to.
Maybe like his best friend, one of his closest friends, he does
just have to to keep this lie up to him and shows that Dunk can
lie. Yeah, that's true.
So the scene ends with Makar's guards arriving and it's not the
end for Raymond. But again, I really appreciate
that he gets an ending because he didn't really get one in the
novella. And the giving the character
extra development makes the the loss of an ending even bigger.
So it's a slight change from the book because in the book he's
just sitting by the Elm tree and the guards come and then Makar's
with them. But otherwise it's the same
conversation, it just takes place at the castle.
I kind of get that it's like Makar's injured too, so he makes
Dunk be the one to travel there. Also, they get to have a few
other scenes in the castle that couldn't happen out by the Elm
tree. You know, something about these
scenes with Makar 1? He has a book open.
We were wondering, like, we can't really see what he's
reading. I'm thinking it's Baylord left
the book open. It's the pages.
That Baylor left open, right and that it's still just been no
one's gone in there and touched the books.
And that's my guess on what Makar has open.
Is it stuff about trial by combat that Baylor was reading?
And I also want to point out how different the the ambiance and
the warmth is that they talk about that again in the BTS.
But it really was palpable, just like the cold light.
There's no not a lot of warm candles glowing and it just you
feel that at all. The warmth has been SAP out of
the castle, out of Makar. I mean, not that he had much
warmth in general, but out of this room for sure, which is
where Baylor was was set up. Y'all, this is a great time to
reread the Hedge Night or to pick up The Sworn Sword or, and
or the Mystery Night. If you haven't, go ahead and go
to our website, get the get the book via Amazon or in the
sidebar or at the merch hub. There's a couple different ways
to do that. And while you're at our website,
you can find other ways to support the show.
Yeah, let's talk about Duncan Makar.
Certainly Maikar's most powerful scene, as predicted and as it
actually played out. He was humble and proud and hurt
and vulnerable and bitter, but also determined.
He furrowed his brow about 5 different ways.
Expert Brow, a master class in brow furrowing.
Or as one of our listeners pointed out, who Janine Stanley
it was who called a Maester class.
Yes, that's a better phrase for this Maester class in brow
furrowing. As I said, the conversation
takes place by the Elm, but otherwise the dialogue in the
book. But otherwise the dialogue is
nearly identical, except for the fact that they resolve
everything in two conversations with some stuff in between,
rather than one very succinct quick conversation.
Here's what's on Dunk's mind in the novella when Makar makes the
offer for him to be a household knight and to get trained at
Summerhall. Quote What shall it be, Dunk, He
asked himself. Dragonflies or Dragons?
A few days ago he would have answered it once.
It was all he had ever dreamed. But now that the prospect was at
hand, it frightened him. Yeah, he's no longer interested
in in signing up with the nobility and and, you know,
really early, he's like, what if I can even House Targaryen, I
could get a job with them, you know.
And now he's like, I don't want a job with House Targaryen.
I don't even, I don't want Baratheon.
I don't, yeah, I don't want any of these people.
So that's a a big reversal and it is reflected in both book and
show here. So he makes in the novel, he
makes his pitch about taking egg on the road.
It begins in the same way. I swore to be his man.
And what of it? A lot of the very similar
dialogue in in both cases, Dunk just rejects outright the
concept of living with the nobility.
He's he's witnessed the corrupting influence.
He was brutally disabused of what he thought before.
Yeah. So many people disappointed, so
many families, most of the Targaryens, even Lionel bit
Stephen Fosseway, the brute of Bracken, the, the farting guy.
I mean, come on. They all laughed at him
laughing, laughing at true knighthood, laughing at justice.
Like, oof. It's also a redemptive moment
for Sir Arlen. Behind the scenes here, between
the lines, Dunk had been defending Sir Arlen's memory all
along. But throughout the season, he
was also coming to terms with maybe he wasn't so great, but
now he it's a bit of a reversal, starts to go back in the other
direction of actually, I get why Sir Arlen lived on the road.
I get why he avoided the nobility.
I get why he lived an uncorruptible lifestyle or a
difficult, corrupt lifestyle, because it's keeps you, keeps
you honest. Living the way Sir Arlen lived
keeps you honest in the ways that are most important in in
terms of nobility, nobility of the spirit, nobility of the
soul, honor, just things like that.
It's Dunk understands now why he shouldn't be trying to rise
above the station of a hedge night.
It's where he belongs. And that's a quite a thing to a
land on. After the events of the trial,
listener Christopher Stevens points out that the offer is a
place in Summerhall. Oh, yeah?
Well, he's going to have a place in Summerhall later, too.
Dunk's instincts were right to avoid that place, right?
For more reasons than he knew. This is also the scene where we
get the title line right. You know, it's, it's a pretty.
I think it's word for word, Sir Arlen.
Everyday, even fall, he'd say, I wonder what the marrow will
bring. And he suggests the possibility
of maybe the realm will need his foot.
We know it's true. But of course.
And if Makar, you know, had dreams, prophetic dreams, maybe
he could agree. But of course he doesn't.
He says not bloody likely. The realm has as many hedge
nights as it has hedges in both book and show.
Yeah, so that's a, it's a great set up for the rest of the
conversation that comes later. A a great first part of it.
And I was appreciated once again how much it sticks to the
novel's dialogue and how well they delivered it.
Sean, what are you? What are your takes on this
scene? Yeah, I thought it was good.
I as you pointed out, it's the other way around make our comes
to dunk in the book, but for several reasons good reasons.
I think they have it the other way around here because it
allows the more back and forth with the characters in the
castle and it the. Book thing like a share pointed
out wouldn't have been possible. Yeah, showing the difference,
the book thing, seeing him with the book open, seeing the
difference in the room later with the castle.
Like you're saying you wouldn't have interacted with Gwen
Ashford right it? Was a eavesdropping and all
those things it set up, which I knew they were somehow going to
have to fill because because where Baylor dies in a book,
there's only like, I don't know, 10 more pages in the whole rest
of the story. And like how they can make a
whole episode out of this. And they've been doing it
throughout, giving us other little perspectives and fillers
and scenes and stuff. And it, you know, and doing a
great job with it. So, you know, no complaints.
I think it was clever writing to to piece it together like this.
Right on continuing with the scene in the stairs moment when
AG was listening so he knew where to go.
He knew that the dunk was leaving and he put himself in
Dunk's path to confront him but didn't make it confrontational.
Dunk is like, do you listening? Were you spying?
He's like, no, he says it in the most guilty voice possible.
I I got to point out, by the way, that I, I thought that was
interesting because that's the closest thing to a direct lie I
can think of Egg having told like maybe he can in his mind at
least justify like, I just happened to be there.
I was going to talk to my dad like I wasn't, this is my, I'm
supposed to be here. Like I can see ways he might
justify that, but I think it's the IT got similar like when
Dunk kind of allows the thing with Rowan and Raymond, Dunk
doesn't tell a direct lie there. I don't think Dunk has told any
direct lies. But.
He maybe, you know, a lie of omission or allowing someone
else to lie or, you know, a kind of a passive dishonesty or
something. But but that was I felt like a
direct lie, but I don't. Know, I think I could told one
other direct lie at least before, which was he said Meg
asked him if he knew his father and he said no, not really, he
knows his father. But he doesn't know him, really
not. Really just said not really.
It wouldn't have been a direct lie.
He said no, not really. So I mean, I think that the.
Engine the no to Not really. To me the no I think.
It's also kind of like the omen, when they're like all who know
you will rejoice and you're not. Well, what do you mean by
knowing someone you know? I know who he is.
I guess you. Could say that it's weasel wordy
and not direct, but yeah I. Think it's yeah, it's weasel
wordy and I think it you there. He has an out to where he says
no, I don't really know my father.
Yeah. And so I I think it's fine.
If here, if Egget said no, not really, I'm just in a hallway,
that would have been less of a direct lie, Maybe still slightly
dishonest, but he just said no. And I and I almost feel like
Dunk, you know, some people think the Dunk is lying about
being a knight. And if that were the case, Dunk
might understand this lie here. It's something that like you
can't really prove Egg wrong, right?
And it makes sense he would tell this lie that that that he's
scared of getting in trouble or being in disappointment.
And so I think Duck understands it, which is why he follows up
with I can't do it now. He he assumes that Egg did here.
He already knows what it means. Yeah.
So Speaking of his knighthood,
the line, maybe you're not the knight I thought you were.
Is is has a double meaning there in that sense.
But Egg is basically saying something that Dunk hasn't
gotten yet. He's going to get it in a few
scenes. I know, like two or three
scenes. But Egg is saying, look, I'm the
weak in this case, yes, I'm a Prince.
And maybe that's why you don't get it, because I'm a royal and
it's hard for you to perceive me as weak because I'm so
privileged. But honestly, in the face of my
own family, I'm the weak. I'm helpless to stop the
upbringing that I'm currently faced with.
And this gets done thinking. And that's what happens right in
the scene. He gets thinking and we
transition to memory to Sir Arlen and the one of the very
saddest scenes. I I grant you, Sean, the ending
is possibly sadder, but this was really moving.
It goes right to the opening shot, right where the season
begins and with the voice over. Have you heard the story before?
And then it ceases to be a voice over because we're seeing Sir
Arlen Frontal. And again, shout out to Danny
Webb again here. He tells the story really well.
It's like it's it's perfect. Careful about saying seeing
Danny Webb frontal. OK, well said.
Well said. He tells the penny tree penis
tree story wonderfully. And it's.
Yeah. So when they leave, each boy
hammers their penis to the tree. No, they're Yikes.
And we know this is where he dies.
That's what makes the scene so interesting.
This is where he dies. We don't know if this is the
moment. His actual moment of death is
ambiguous. They play with it a little bit
when he looks like he's he's dead.
Then he wakes back up. A true knight always finishes
his story, dunks already crying. He's like, wait, I shouldn't be
crying. You're not actually dead.
But we know he dies at some point in this, like a couple
hours later, maybe the in the evening.
You know, it's just very close to that.
And the story and he's telling, it's the story reflects on
himself. He's never going back to Penny
Tree. You know, he wasn't called to
war, but still, he's never going back to Penny Tree.
He's never returning and his his Squire Rodger.
Maybe Rodger had his penny. Penny tree.
I wonder if maybe we'll get that one day they'll go to Penny Tree
and they'll and dunk. Will wonder which one is Rogers.
That's a good call. Yeah, and of course, skipping
ahead, the penny gets a full circle.
Remember, the penny being in the hilt is a show edition, but it
comes full circle because Dunk takes the penny out at the in
that in one of those final scenes and puts it in the tree.
And that was a really nice moment too.
So now the sword is penniless in both cannons that lines up.
And the reason I think this is part dreamscape and you know, I
want to get y'all's take on this is the way is the tense.
He's he's speaking to a ghost, I think.
And that's how you can tell because of the tense.
He says. He doesn't say why haven't
united me. He says why didn't you ever
night me? And then and then to Claire.
And then for further clarification, he doesn't say
were you afraid I'd leave you? He says he doesn't say, are you
afraid I'll leave you. He says, were you afraid?
Past tense. As if it's already a decision.
It's already too late. So, but it doesn't, of course,
that's not the point of the scene.
The scene is it's it's more about Sir Arlen and and Dunk
carrying on his legacy and I'm sure other things too.
But yeah, that was a definitely part of it and.
Yeah, I, I think you make a very convincing case.
And it's something they've done before, 'cause like I said, I, I
said during the shot of him, of Arlen shrugging his shoulder at
nighting him, that was obviously a false memory.
It was a, it was a, you know, fantasy.
And so I, I think there is a strong argument that this could
be that because of the tense, I think it is possible to talk to
someone and ask these questions and use the past tense.
And for that to be how you phrase it, I don't think that is
illogical or nonsensical for him to say it with that tense, but I
think it is good, a good clue for your interpretation.
I don't think that either. I don't think it matters
ultimately whether this is how it went down or how it didn't go
down and this is just dunks kind of amalgamation of experiences
he's had with Arlen, things he wished he'd asked him.
What matters, you know, is that is that Arlen made this impact
on him, right? Maybe we will never know the
answer. I don't know that I need to know
the answer. I think I like it because I like
the the show playing with kind of fantastical and non reality.
I like that a lot. So I I would like it if you're
right. Or, or at least unreliable
narrators. You know exactly how Dunk
remembers this might not be. Completely accurate, yeah.
And I would like to see more unreliable narration in Season
2. I think there's a lot of room
for that type of thing for great comedy, in fact.
Right. Yeah.
And I do, even though it kind of works against the case I want to
make, I do appreciate that that catch Aziz because and kind of
Deshaya's point, if they had switched the tense, I do think
it works either way. But you know, if they had
switched it the other way, we wouldn't be confused why about
what he meant or thought it was proof that Dunk had been
knighted or anything like that. But they did choose that tense.
They did choose that tense. It is noteworthy.
But that it was so brilliant that they really strongly hinted
that Dunk was never knighted, but gave everyone like you,
Sean, who wants to keep, you know, arguing that he was
knighted. You have there's enough
ambiguity that you can still say that.
And it's not explicit. Some people might say, oh, it's,
it's proof, it's, it's not explicit.
So I, I, I'm glad it's still ambiguous.
I was, I wouldn't want it to not be ambiguous at this point in
the story. I think it will be unambiguous
eventually in the story going way further, but not at this
point. But that split moment when Arlen
seemed to be dead and don't get asked that question.
I, I, I spent that split moment thinking, what?
No way. I can't believe they're like
creating this Canon like it's oh, oh, they're not OK.
Yeah, that was that was a nice little trick.
Yeah, I was like, I was stunned and all I was, I was ready to be
even angry or, or for George to be angry, you know what I mean?
Like, because, you know, I you know, I, I'm half joking, you
know, about all this. But the fact is that I I do
think this scene and all the other evidence everyone points
to about Dunk not being knighted, the whole thing is
that it's ambiguous that the George has gone to great lengths
and the show also to make it clear that it is ambiguous, even
if there's a lot of evidence on one side.
That that they could have made it clear.
It would have been easier to make it clear.
It could have made it a lot clearer, but.
All they had to do was end it where it was, but they added
extra. There was more time and more
dialogue and da da da. If they just didn't do that,
they make a give you a clear answer.
It was set up for a clear answer.
It would've been easier to give the clear answer, but they
didn't give the clear answer. They.
Got closer to the truth without revealing it, right.
They got like they zoomed in on it, but still didn't give you
the. Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's, that's, that's very well said, Sean.
One from L AM J in the chat somebody noticed that color
grading was different here than another flashback, so I did feel
like it had kind of a dreamier tone to it than some of the
other ones. I'd be curious to do a closer
comparison, but also I wanted to give a mention to Arlen's line.
A true knight always finishes his story.
A screenshot all of us will see for so long to George RR Martin.
Unfortunately, I like I. Kind of rolled.
My eyes when that was in there because I instantly knew how
often I would see that quote and that screenshot applied to A
Song of Ice and Fire. But you know, George is
hopefully a true night. George is not a true night.
Yeah, yeah. I wondered if that was a digging
George or if it might turn out to be that way, or what George
thought when he said. And they didn't realize that it
would be so pointed and that people would take it that way.
I think it was an accident. I do.
But maybe it was George telling Ira Parker I'm almost done.
That's a positive. Thing that's what you're saying
he met on that line. No, I don't think so.
I think it was a it was an accident and maybe an unhappy
accident for me and a happy accident for many people on
social media. Speaking of writing, you know,
as we're sitting here, I just got a a text from T Mikkel, who
is, you know, one of the writers and producers of both House of
the Dragon and Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
And she was in the BTS this time.
That's right, actually showed her for once.
So we were talking about how this show is bringing in a lot
of people that did not watch either of the other two shows.
We've had friends that fall into that category that have watched.
It's their first experience with any sort of Game of Thrones TV
show. You sell 'cause you're like,
well, it's 1/2 hour, it's more comedic, right?
That's not quite as violent. They still had to get warned
about some violence and hoarse death and stuff like that, but
regardless they were more on. Board not a.
Sexual either. It's a great point.
Yeah, so she was agreeing. She's like, yeah, we're seeing
people who are just not into Thrones at all getting into it.
And that that'll just keep helping bring new people in.
And some of those people will also get deeper into the fandom,
too. So yay, more books, we'll sell
more readers, all that good stuff.
Thanks to those of you on Patreon who have supported us
all season long. We won't be slowing down.
Of course, we have topic Smoot 2026 coming soon, the return of
book and historical influence topics.
And then, you know, come May, June, we'll already be getting
into Hot D. So, you know, it's a, it's a big
year for us, a big year for you, a big year for the fandom.
If you want to join us and support directly, you can go to
patreon.com/history of Westeros, but just go to going to our
website. Historyofwesteros.com provides
you with a lot of ways to help and a Shay has got a a thing to
mention here as well. Yeah, I do.
I'm always making different updates to our website, some of
which lit don't always are, aren't actually like listed on
our website proper anyways. So one of those is a merch hub,
a Song of Ice and Fire merch that we like or have or think
you might like or stuff like that.
Some of it's on Amazon. So we do get affiliate stuff.
Some of it's not I just like it and I want to link to official
merch or stuff on Shire postman. I you know what I mean?
Like I it's not all going to benefit us, but it's a
assortment of different things. I've added some a Night of the
Seven Kingdoms merch that's out now.
For example, there are now Funko pops up for pre-order of Dunk,
Egg, Lionel Baratheon and Tansel Tutal.
So if you want to pre-order those you can find the link to
them at historyofwesteros.com/merch Dash
hub. I also have a page that's
history of westeros.com/timeline and it's a thing I've been
working on and it would show all a timeline of all the events and
it would embed. I'll put a preview of it here.
It'll embed. And This is why it's still in
the works is because there's a lot of episodes I'd like to
embed in the timeline, but it embeds our episodes.
So when you see prehistory, you see when giants roamed.
When I Scroll down to the Roinar migration, you see all the
Nymeria episodes and it links to them.
And so that's a really big project, but you can get, you
can see it a little earlier than most people if you're listening
to our little here. That's right, folks.
So yeah, check that out. I'd be scared to see Baylor's
bobble head. There's pieces would fly out the
back when it's bobbling. Like it.
If they made that actually, that would be pretty great.
So during the wrap up episode, quick preview things we'll we'll
talk about some season long topics, things that are better
discussed as a whole, things that build up, taking a step
back to look at it like that. More about the trials, some more
additional background details. We'll look more about Sir Arlen
as a whole, kind of everything they put together throughout the
season. Maybe a few corrections, things
we got wrong, things we've reconsidered, maybe a few
opinions that have changed. We'll talk about the how well it
it did certain things and how well it made us care about the
characters, music, themes, things like that.
If you have questions or things you want us to discuss during
the wrap up episode, definitely let us know.
You all are very good at making suggestions for us to talk
about, so I would love to get some feedback in that regard.
The Reverie, The ghost seen here, whatever you want to call
it with Dunk we were, is revealed.
That he's at a funeral or awake perhaps is more accurate.
It's not somber. There's toasting and kids
playing and I call it a bee's burial.
It's actually a burial for both Beesbury and Harding, but the
Harding coffin is very outshine by the Beesbury coffin.
It looks like the Beesbury coffin is really cool.
The bee thing was a really nice touch, and the joke about bee
magic just topped it all off. And it's another really good
example of the mixing somber and sad with some humor.
And it's a good effect, I think. It makes a lot more sense what
Ira Parker mentioned. Beesbury is his favorite minor
house now. And the Reddit AMA because they
have a lot of neat little details he's added.
There's other cool things about Beesbury beyond this, but I can
see why they stood out to him a lot.
Not to mention Humphrey Beesbury with his honeycombed mustache
and that the fact that he was the one of the people dancing in
the first episode in Lionel's tent that he really knows how to
party. I'm not surprised everyone came
out to to support both Humphreys, but especially
Humphrey Beesbury. Rest in bees.
So it's not made super clear,
and you all may have, it may have slipped your mind that that
one scene where we see Humphrey Beesbury and Humphrey Harding
have one tilt and that's the end of the jousting until Aryan gets
involved. That's when the Battle of
Humphrey, we don't it's not made explicit, but that is what
happened. Remember, they broke something
like 10 or 11 or 14 lances against each other until one of
them finally won. We.
Debated whether it was Beesbury or Peak.
If you recall, if you're listening, that was that was
that. Totally going to change my mind.
It was not Pete. I really.
Don't think so, the guy said. Beesbury.
It's. Beesbury.
Still shocked that neither of us noticed the the the yellow
mustache on the dancer in episode 1.
Seriously. Ages later, but you know.
So Harding beat his brother-in-law, Beesbury, in the
jousting. But Beesbury definitely won the
funeral games, or at least his house did.
Those are look kids there. I wonder.
I'm wondering about those kids. I assume those are are at least
one of them. The one in yellow is a Beesbury
child, maybe Humphrey's kid, and that would thus be Humphrey
Harding's niece or nephew. Is that a girl?
I'm not sure either way because. I think it's 2 little girls. 2
little girls because I think a Harding Harding's sister married
Beesbury. That's their connection.
It could be the other way around, but look at this seems
to point to Harding being the OR to Beesbury being the one who
married Harding's sister, rather than the other way around.
And there's also two other kids playing, but we don't get as
quite as good to look at them or we don't get words from them
because you hear the. Kids, no, we do get words.
We do get words. From them, no.
We get hard captions. We get words from two kids, but
not all four kids. Is what I'm saying?
Yes. And it's very telling.
Even those kids are mocking the Targaryens.
So that's a really big deal to yet again, an example of anti
Targaryen. They're all happy, they're all
at this funeral, but they might not have gone to the other one.
Blue Gravel was right to be spying on everyone.
He's suspicious. Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
So we get it gets a little more serious, right?
Just. For a minute, you're going to be
just just real. Can they?
The Kingsguard are actually visible in the background, the
two that probably are responsible for killing Beesbury
and Harding. So I guess they're coming to pay
their respects and maybe there's no hard feelings.
The Kingsguard is like, yeah, I mean, what are you?
What are we going to do? It's our duty.
We, you know, what choice did we have still?
It's kind of injury, but But who?
But another presence that's more important catches Dunk's eye.
It's Daron yelling out for a drink.
And Dunk is like, these people are dead because of you.
And Daron just kind of like, does the shrug, like, yeah.
And you know, And he then it goes to discussion about Egg.
Dunk is just disgusted and ready to walk away.
But Daron brings up Egg. Clearly, Makar or Egg.
Someone discussed it with him. He found out somehow that this
was a thing, and Daron makes a comment about his little brother
being a monster. Dunk thinks he means egg, but of
course he means Aryan. Now this gets me.
This is this is a subtle moment here.
They they could have chosen any mundane activity for Aryan to
have been fond of as a child, to show that he wasn't always
cruel, sadistic, cold, whatever you want to call him.
It could have been woodworking, or art, or models of Valyria.
You know, like the saris, or he could have been into horses, he
could have collected miniatures, who knows?
But they chose fishing and that's the same thing.
Egg said he liked when he point when the scene about Donald
Duskindale's rich crabbing family.
I was like, how do you know that?
He's like, I like fishing. Maybe that was just a thing that
he said, but I really don't think they wrote it that way to
create that coincidence and didn't and weren't aware of it.
So I think. This was like he'd also caught a
fish when Dunk showed up at camp.
Good point. Good point.
He did have a fish. You're right.
It's episode one. Yeah, totally Good catch.
So this is an ominous hint as to Egg's future, a suggestion that
he's kind of on that same path or could be on that same path.
And that's something that gets to dunk.
He's like, oh, this is what makes him finally realize that
he's miscasting Egg. This is what I was saying before
about he didn't realize that Egg is a victim, That Egg is the
weak here, that he's a victim of his family.
Look at him here with this hat. This fit.
This is Mega Egg Nega. I don't know and he is a little
tyrant dictator in the making. Doesn't he look like it?
How can you see him as weak? He looks powerful as make our
intended. You're right.
Yeah, How could you? So you can see why.
Those trappings of of Targaryen power right here.
So Darren is not shy about saying, hey, look, you
disrespect me, you don't like me.
You're right to. That's exactly my point, man.
If you leave Egg with me and Aryan and our father, what do
you think's going to happen, man?
And Dunk's like, oh, good point, good point.
So he changes my, spins him on his heels.
He realizes, oh, damn, I'm wrong.
I need to heat Dunk is I'm a true knight.
And the way I can protect the weak is by making Egg my Squire.
He's the ad. He's the only one that can do it
right? Because he's already said Egg
has already said that he will serve no other knight, which
means he's not going to be squired out elsewhere, you know?
So at least in Dunk's mind. So he changed his mind.
He was squired out elsewhere, they wouldn't take him on the
road and teacher be a true knight.
They would do it in a castle with servants and conflicted
loyalties and all the other stuff.
Well said. Yeah, it's it's very, it's a
very good culmination of everything Dunk's been thinking
about and realizing that yes, he but he's framed it a little bit
wrong. He's kind of misunderstood Egg's
situation and that really gets him on a different path now. 1
little criticism I have here. I get why they didn't do it.
The scene was perfect and succinct the way it was.
But I kind of wanted them to talk about the prophecy, maybe
just a line or two to resolve that.
They didn't really do it in the book either.
I mean, he doesn't talk to Deron again, so, you know, there's
nothing like this scene in the book.
So I. Think it that gets to be a
little on the nose to like. I mean, yeah, I agree.
I think it might have slowed down the scene.
It was very lean the way it was. I agree that that that I
definitely would agree with that it.
It might have been nice for him to reference.
I guess it was Baylor that I saw in my dream.
And then they start talking about Egg or whatever.
Yeah. Like they could.
They start with that. They have to they have to finish
with the Egg thing for sure. Yeah.
The pacing continues really tightly here.
We have, if we back up just a little bit, we have make our
telling Dunk, you know, or Dunk saying no and then Dunk meeting
Egg in the hallway and then transitioning to Dunk thinking
about Sir Arlen to transition to the funeral where he's, you
know, in having this silent reverie to seeing all the
activity at the funeral to back to Egg with the fish and a knife
stuck in the fish and there's flies buzzing around.
It's pretty gross. And the knife is very
conspicuous, like I said. So the music is really, really
powerful. The the scene of Egg looking at
his hair, looking and feeling it.
He's seeing himself in the mirror and he's touching it.
And it's something that he's very personally fixated on as a
sign of his connection to his brother and to the rest of his
family as well. And he just hates.
I don't think he's seeing himself in the mirror.
I think he's seeing Aryan in Remember, he's dead.
Yeah, I should cut mine off 'cause I didn't want to look
like you, brother. And now he's starting to look
like his brother again. He doesn't like it.
He might as well go go do to Aryan what Aryan would threaten
to him to do to him right at that point.
Sneaking into his room while he's asleep.
Put the knife between his legs. Yeah, he had to be thinking
about what Aryan used to do to him there.
And as y'all pointed out earlier, this is great visual
storytelling. There isn't a single word spoken
until May. There's a knock on the door and
Makar's like what you know, and it's it's Dunk again with
amazing pacing. We're right back in it with Dunk
because he's just there waiting outside with his final message.
Egg's face changes a whole bunch of different ways.
Brilliant acting. As we said before, Makar also
really, really well done. I love how Makar's just in the
darkness and you, you get so lulled into not knowing what's
going to happen and then he's just there.
It was actually, despite how sad and upsetting it was a light bit
of comedy. It made me chuckle amidst being
very sad about this scene and upset about it, you know?
Yeah, I had AI don't know, a thought, a question, maybe when
Egg dropped the knife, that was like a decision, you know what I
mean? That they didn't have to have
that happen. And so it made me wonder why.
Why did they decide that? What was that representing?
Was that egg like being caught? So like, all right, I'm not
going to do it now because I'm caught.
Or was that maybe egg dropping this, you know, violent thought
because now the support of his father was there, you know, I
think. It is him betting.
Though. Yeah.
For now, he doesn't drop it until his father touches him, I
think. I think until he puts his arms
on hands on him. I think so.
I think that you're right. I think it's that contact alone
is pulls him out of the the darkness maybe a little bit.
And I really liked how he he leans like he, he he takes a
beat of, of, of him standing there and he leans against his
father. Yeah.
You know, it's moving. Yeah.
And they both just kind of, I mean, Eggs crying and Makar has
to be sad in this moment, knowing that he loves his sons.
He loves Aryan just like, just like he loves Egg.
I mean, and then she loves him differently.
But he he does love Aryan and he doesn't want his sons to be
violent towards each other. It's really heartbreaking for
him. Which, by the way, is part of
why I push back against the idea that he was, that that was a lie
or not, when he said I don't really know my father because it
seems like at this moment he's like, you don't know this guy.
I mean, I can kind of believe it, but anyway, I'm not trying
to bring that back up. That was just I, I forgot to
mention that as part of my thinking for that point.
I don't know if that changes the bottom line, but I think.
There's A to me, the fact that Makar would have been through so
much grief throughout so much of Egg's childhood would show that
I think Makar was probably pretty closed off about a lot of
things. And maybe that's why I think
that Egg doesn't not doesn't really know him.
Is is Makar has gone through a lot of grief and I doubt he
really shared a lot of that with his son.
This is not standard Makar. He hasn't been standard Makar
the entire tournament. First he's pissed off about his
sons and or worried and now this like yeah, so we haven't seen
him like normal, you know? I do think it's interesting here
and, you know, could go back and forth on what it might mean as
far as like, does Egg know him? But I don't think it would have
been crazy either for it to happen or for Egg to expect to
happen here. It's for Makar to grab him and
yell him and drag him out of there and slap his face.
Like, what are you going to do? Kill your brother?
Woody who? But he didn't do any of that.
He didn't have a mean, violent, angry reaction.
It was a calm, supportive reaction.
And I think that's interesting on many levels.
Whether that means Egg knows him or not, or whether he's changed
from what Egg might have known, I don't know.
So while he's waiting outside to speak to Makar, Glynn comes up,
apologizes and takes his side. And I think this is exactly
where they were standing when she first approached him.
This time, the doors are closed, so it looks a little different,
but it's pretty satisfying. It's a bump in the opposite
race, yet another one more noble that he's not disappointed with
at least one more person of the very few who wasn't a
disappointment. Yeah.
Like, she's really, really been crying.
Like really hard. I mean, it's very traumatic.
I mean, imagine being a 13 year old girl and not only is it your
birthday, which is kind of irrelevant, but you are like the
centerpiece of everything. And you're watching this
terrible fight to the death. And the the Crown Prince, who
you probably thought was, was gallant, chivalrous.
You liked you. You liked him more than than
most, you know, other people probably.
And and he's killed. I don't know.
Yeah. It's it's got a.
How excited would she be? Like Ashford, they're not a big
house. And like, all these Targaryens
are coming. Yeah, she would have been like
over the moon, like this is all these Princess are coming like.
And then it just went so badly. Yeah, good little actress.
It's almost like a Sansa moment, right?
She's she cut somewhat a dunk is kind of seeing a reality, right
of all this royal pomp and circumstance you kind of
idolize, but seeing the reality of it is not what you thought.
And it's not good. She probably wouldn't have
expected what Aryan did either. That might have been a real
shock for her. Like, I wouldn't have expected
someone like that to do that, you know?
And then she probably after seeing what Aryan did, she
probably would have been rooting against Aryan or expecting him
to to be killed or lose. And instead it goes the other
way. The good guy is is killed and
yeah, everyone's talking trash about Duncan and you know that
he's a decent guy. You know, like, she probably
hears lots of gossip and she probably does hear people talk
trash about Duncan. You're probably right, you know?
Yeah, she might have wanted to cheer like Red did for Dunk, but
she's just. That's just not what a noble
girl would do there. It's just not in her behavior
range. It's not not allowed.
It's not done. It's not proper, you know.
So Makar is pretty gruff, as is often the case.
He's just, like, impatient. Look at his face.
Yeah, look at that face that. Is like so funny.
Spit it out, man face. Like I have no time.
Face right there. He's like, what do you want,
man? Face.
Yeah. Every second I'm away from my
two sons, they could kill each other.
And it very nicely picks up exactly where the conversation
in the book is divided. So they they, they don't really
miss a beat, even though there's several scenes in between the
conversation as it pertains to the book.
Dunk makes his pitch and can come live with me on the road.
Makar says, Get him away from his family.
And Makar, you know, that's a bit pointed because Makar just
saw what happened. He's like, well, maybe it should
be good for him to be away from his family that he was just
trying to kill. But he knows he's like he.
Knows he's setting Aryan away though, right?
Yeah, he knows he's sending Aryan to lease.
Matter if Aryan's going to be gone, he just has to keep them
away from each other for a little while.
Yeah, this is this is the spirit from the novel.
The novel sells it like this, but it's more in between the
lines here. They're a little more
straightforward with it, which generally makes sense for TV.
Yes. I mean Dunk, it's, it's not that
Dunk is diplomatic about it and it's all, but it's true that
it's not just getting away from his family.
Getting away from his family is is a positive, but it's not just
removing the bad influences. It's also achieving the good
influences. It's, it's not just one or the
other. There's the good, which is
living on the road, living humbly, being honorable, that
that's good. But it's so it's, it's achieving
that and getting rid of the bad. You know, there's not just so
Duncan's trying to focus on the, the good part rather than the,
the part that insults his family.
And that's that's wise. But make our as proud as he is,
you know is going to push back in that same way.
Makar says it's his last son and he said he's so broken up about
it. But like, it's dangerous to send
him out on the road with Jung. You know, like a lot of things
could take your son out. He could just get sick and they
don't have the easy ability to take care of his well, like when
he says he's my last son, it's not only like he's his last
chance to shape like an honorable Targaryen, but also
like he's he's his like baby. He's his his littlest child.
And it's dangerous. It's a dangerous world.
Make our sending egg with Dunk has always been a little
precarious for me, just in the sheer danger of living as a
hedge knight, right? Sure, Yeah, and.
The the the signet ring is is meant to defuse if anything dire
happens. Egg is able to, you know, get
help. Right.
And that's the fall. Back yeah, his his emergency
like call 911. So he has that, but that's still
you have to hope that someone is honourable enough to to listen
to that. You have to hope that it's
something that can be helped. I yeah, it's it's scary.
I mean, he's like not even 10. Yeah, Makar, he's he's a little
bit, All that sets you up here, Sean.
There's a little bit of conflict here for Makar.
Well, a lot of conflict, really. But in this particular thing I
want to point to, he wants his son to be noble, chivalrous and
honorable, a good representative of House Targaryen because
that's what he grew up with. He actually had positive
Targaryen influences growing up, and that's unusual.
But Makar was one of those people.
His own older brother was Baylor.
His father was there on the goods.
So he had a rarer experience. And he wants that.
He wants to continue that chain. He doesn't want to be the guy
where that line of nobility and honor stopped.
Like he's like, oh, Makar couldn't carry that forward.
He takes it personally. It's a huge failure for him to
say I can't raise a good son so I have to pass this kid off to
someone else to do it right. He he it's a really hard thing
to admit that I'm a failure as a father.
This is the proof in the pudding.
And I have three of my sons aren't what I wanted.
And now the 4th 1 you know is. Fine, OK, he's not.
He's a warrior, but he's not. It doesn't seem like he is
dysfunctional. We also agree with that, right?
Yes, yes, we. Don't know, probably it.
Might still be disappointed it's.
It is possible that during Eamon's younger years, he was a
little wild and he, you know, even as a maester, you know,
that he was had some drinking issues like Aaron, like there
there might have been things that he had that were character
flaws. He was a child and a teen.
Yeah, he was sent to the Citadel very young, so I kind of doubt
he was too wild because he was sent there when he was like 11.
But but Aaron sent him. So yeah, Makar did not like it.
Makar didn't want it. So this is what he means by
losing his son. I don't think he's not proud of
his son, but lost him means that it was taken away from him who
sent away to the Citadel and he doesn't see him So either way.
But you're right, Amy, he's, I doubt he's disappointed with
Amon, even though he wanted a warrior son, you know?
Depending on how you define disappointed, you know, he might
be disappointed and he's not this ideal hard charging
warrior, but there's but he might you might be disappointed
in that, but he's not disappointed in that he's a
psychopath like Aryan or drunk like Darren, right.
Yeah, I think it's interesting. A couple of things I want to say
here, and it's kind of to your point as he's about the the the
challenge of acting here. That maker is torn in so many
ways because it's a little hypocritical when he cuts in,
he's like, oh, and his family, because he, you know, Dunk
wasn't going to say that, even though Dunk probably was
thinking it. Many people are thinking it make
our nose. People are thinking he's
thinking it himself. He just saw his boy go to with a
knife to his brother. Like so he does know the family
has these problematic elements, but he still has his pride.
Like you better not say it. Well, what are you going to
challenge my effect? You know, like he kind of knows
it is an issue, but he he's daring Dunk to say that.
But Dunk can make points otherwise.
Anyway, just a slight bit of hypocrisy from Makar.
But I appreciate that he isn't a complete hypocrite because he
does kind of acknowledge he does kind of he's my last boy.
Like he got it lets a little bit of his real self through the
facade he feels he needs to put up.
And on the other side, one difference for better, worse
this makes in the book, from the book that Dunk goes to Makar is
a Dunk is a lot more bold here. It's different for Makar to come
to Dunk and say, hey, what do you think about this?
And Dunk say, I don't know, maybe, but I want to do it my
own way. It's a different thing for Dunk
to go to Makar and say this is how I want to do it.
It's my way or the highway. It's a little bit bolder for him
to go to Makar with this demand, if you will.
A&B in the book. Dunk hesitates about that line
where he's like, you know, Darren never slept in a ditch
and Aaron had some, you know, nice beef cuts and look how they
turned out. Dunk doesn't want to say that.
Maker has to kind of pull him out.
Maker can tell that Dunk is hesitating.
Well, that's a good. Point, he says.
Say what you want. Good call.
Yeah, good catch. Yeah, we're here.
Dunk just offers it right up. And so I don't know if it's
that's good or bad, but an interesting difference that I
think has been inconsistent in the show.
That dunk is a little more bull. I remember I talked earlier
about, like his conversation with Baylor, he was a little bit
more lawyerly, like he's trying to prove that he's correct,
whereas in a book he was more resigned to have him messed up,
you know? Well said.
This is some really good takes. Yeah.
Make our He's just too proud, ultimately.
That's a big part of him, a big pervasive aspect of him.
He just can't allow his son to live like a peasant.
But as you say, Shay, there's probably some other things going
on there. It's not just that that's that's
sort of an excuse. It does.
I I believe he's sincere when he says that, but I don't think
it's the line. I don't think it's the thing
that most bothers him. I think it's what he says a
second later. He is my last son and the whole
thing about pride and raising his own son rather than handing
him off to somebody else. Now he is my last son is a show
only line. Pretty powerful one.
I also appreciate the book version where Makar just kind of
looks at him and walks off and it it's it's it's it does a lot
of work there, but that comes with narration.
So it's not actually nothing. It's it's narrating you saying
he's walking off. So it's that's the difference in
the the mediums here. I think it's telling in a way
that doesn't take place in the book because there's no series
of long flashbacks in the book, of course.
But one of the things that was a really important theme of Dunk's
young life was it's not the location, it's not King's
Landing, it's society, it's humans.
Like, no matter where we go, we're going to be, you know,
lowborn peasants or something worse.
And so when he hears Aryan is going to the east, maybe the
Free Cities will make him a better man.
Dunk's like, Nah, dah, no, a little chance of that, Sir.
But he doesn't say. He, of course, isn't going to
say that either. That's another bit of diplomacy
that he's like, well, yeah, maybe I shouldn't.
I'm so glad you mentioned that because I, I really, I, I, I
feel like that must have been such a jolt to Dunk in that
moment to hear that, you know, he had just thought about Rafe
recently and must have stuck with him.
And yeah, I, I thought that was a, a really nice beat for them
to hit. And I wonder, I mean, they're
going to see that, right? They're going to travel around
and see the things are similar all over the place like that,
that Dunk is going to see the whole, all the kingdoms, right?
He's going to see all over and he's going to see people are
messed up, they have problems. People are honorable and nice
there. There's a a huge variety of
people. There's no difference between
when he's up in the North and he sees the Northerners and when
he's down in Dorne. Right from Dorne to the TO to
Winterfell, he sees that people are are basically the same.
Yeah, I agree. That's, that's a good point.
Yeah. He he's that's going to be a big
part of his education when he learned that.
And he's going to learn that it's true everywhere.
And he already kind of suspects that.
So it's just going to, he's going to, you know, prove that
to himself, I suppose, through experience.
And Egg's going to endeavour to make it different nationwide
with the power of his hats. So here's a question.
How did Egg learn that Dunk had changed his mind?
It's not hard to figure out. There's a few possibilities.
I think it's kind of fun to think about briefly, but he has
to have figured it out. Or he was told.
He could have guessed. I was like, why else is Dunk
coming back to talk to my father?
There must be some reason. He could have been kind of
hopeful about it. Makar could have been muttering
about it afterwards, like that hedge night, blah, blah, blah.
You know, like he wanted you to come along with him on the road.
I'd put a stop to that. He could have.
He could have been. Hey, Father, what did Sir Duncan
want, you know? And he would have told him so.
But something had to happen there.
Egg either had to figure it out or overhear it again.
He could have spied again, you know?
I have a thought, but I'll talk about it when we get to the end.
OK, cool. So that's that's curious.
I wonder about that. But either way, it's not hard to
figure out something there that would fit to wonder how good of
a father Daron was. King Daron, that is.
We know Jahari says a great king, bad dad.
Same with Daron, Maybe. Yeah, it's possible.
We can't assume Daron the good was a good father.
He was a good king. But there is no way that I would
consider those two things to have a whole lot of overlap.
Yeah. I think you can often say that
if someone's a good king, they're probably not as good of
a father as they could. Have been because they just have
to neglect a lot of things to be a good king.
Yeah, that's true. So, yeah, it's absolutely
possible that Darren was not a great father.
He was. He was definitely a good man,
though. So that's so my, I think my
point still has some merit, even if Darren wasn't a great father,
because he was still someone to look up to.
He's still someone who accomplished a lot, still
someone who was respected. So in that sense, yeah, that
works. But I could see him, you know,
being a disappointment in terms of, yeah, an actual dad,
Jillsville says. Why was Eamon sent away?
Who decided that? Well, it was King Darren.
It was this same. He was his grandfather, and he
said too many Dragons are as dangerous as too few.
But he also recognized the kind of person Eamon was.
He recognized early on that Eamon was Eamon was bookish.
It wasn't. This wasn't random.
So he's like, well, that's the solution.
We got a bookish kid, we got to reduce the number of Dragons.
Here's an easy Here's an easy call, at least from Darren's
perspective. Maybe it seemed easy, but Makar
was against it. Let's be very clear.
Makar argued to get with his father about that.
He did not want it to happen. Yes, even more reason for him to
go. He's my last son.
He's already like had one taken from.
Him forcibly that he did not want to give up.
Yeah, Anthony Vasquez 7050 says. Interesting that Makar is
grieving. The loss of his brother
accidentally killing him, and Aegon is contemplating killing
his brother intentionally. Oh, good cats.
Yeah, yeah. That's a strong, like potent
parallel there, or reverse parallel inversion, perhaps you
call it. Good catch there, Anthony
Vasquez, a sweet footnote we got.
That's right, sweet footnote. Dunk says.
I don't know, Chestnut. Stop asking me because we love
when you talk to his horses, and that's a good one.
And then Sweet Foot comes running up.
It's it's nicely done. Raymond continues to be the
absolute best friend a person could hope for.
I mean, honestly, buying someone a horse is pretty small compared
to joining you in a fight to the death against the Kingsguard.
But this guy did both. So hey, it's like, wow, man, he
did this after his his money, his coffers are probably a
little bit tighter than they were because he's had.
To support more. He's not sharing his hand with
Stefan, you know, he's clearly has some amount of of resources
available to him still, but it's still a little bit more of a of
a purchase than it would have been a couple weeks ago.
Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. And in Dunk's perspective, a
horse is the difference. In his life or.
Not right. Like if Dunk loses his horse,
like that was his fear. If he lost in your child, it's
like, well, that's it. I can't even be a knight now.
I have to go be a criminal or something.
I don't even know. Like a horse is such a swing for
Dunk, at least for most people in the world.
Maybe not quite as much as Raymond, but like it.
It's, it's kind of like buying someone a car, you know what I
mean? And, you know, if, especially if
you're like, in a relatively destitute situation and someone
just gives you a car, even if they're a millionaire, you don't
think that was nothing for you? You think, wow, that just
changed my life, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. I will say two things here.
One do you think this? Is now Rowan's horse?
Is she going to ride Sweet foot? Good catch.
I bet man. I also I totally.
Thought. Raymond was going to try to
convince Dunk to. Go.
To to his New Castle, to new Barrel and come to the reach
with him. And no, he's just supporting him
going to live with Lionel, which I thought was a funny little
little thing. He's kind of assumed he would
accept that offer. He assumed he would accept it.
He did. Well, I I.
Guess it's to be fair Raymond hasn't really set up.
That he doesn't have the operation to invite.
Him to yet maybe he's like thinking of later.
But yeah it's still you're you're still right.
I like how Dunk just continuously shows his
tenderness towards animals. It's a recurring theme
throughout the entire season. He makes the decision that he
thinks is best for the horse, not for himself.
And Sweet Foot is a fitting name for an orchard horse that you
know. I love this little note here
too. This little this little tidbit.
What did Raymond say after Dunk gets released by Baylor?
And he goes back to his horses in the rain and he's talking to
his horse. And Raymond says, were you
talking to your horses? That's mad.
And now Raymond's talking to Sweet Foot.
It's great. He's like, you know what, Dunk?
I'm going to start talking to horses, too.
You had the right idea. Gives them a green apple.
All right. Yeah, I saw multiple people on
social media ahead of this. Episode concerned for sweet foot
and the weather. We would get a resolution
closure for sweet foot. OK, I saw this many times and I
didn't expect to see this. And many people in the replies
were like, no, in the book we don't you don't see sweet foot
again, like everyone looked downplayed it.
You know, I was like, oh, we do. We do though.
We do. And so I hope whoever those
people were who posted on threads or tweeted or wherever
you posted, I hope you feel so happy right now that we did get
sweet foot closure. It was very sweet, sweet
footnote indeed. So, yeah.
So Raymond continues to be. One of the perhaps the biggest
exception along with Baylor, that, yeah, while the nobility
or something to in general, as he said about Lionel, I could
run the opposite direction from there are some exceptions.
I mean, no doubt Raymond is the top of his list in terms of in
terms of the living. He ponders his hand and his foot
and whether their lives were not worth that.
You know, he should have accepted it.
And it's guilt. You know, this is Dunk.
He's he feels responsible. He takes responsibility.
That's that's it. That's the kind of guy he is.
I hope that when we see a montage of flashbacks of Dunk
visiting Raymond and. Rowan and little baby dunk that
we see sweet foot in the in the orchard.
I would like that too. By the way, what did Rowan joke
about with at the beginning of the first episode?
Ray Dondarian wanted to turn the whole world red.
Yeah, she's going to do it. She's going to.
She's facilitating that. I mean, it really makes like,
you know, fossil. Ways the reach.
There's a lot of red. Haired people there it.
Makes sense. So that is the the dunk kind of
after. He gives up sweet foot.
They don't actually say goodbye. He just kind of goes back to
thinking. He leans on the wall and is
thinking and then it kind of transitions to him making making
ready to leave. It was a beautiful shot how it
it starts focused out on on the tree above him.
While you're like, what is he doing?
You know, you kind of wonder. I don't think I probably no one
guessed instantly. And so they gave everyone just
like a beat to, to, to think about Dunk and, and, and what he
was doing. And I thought, I like, I think I
always like it when they let you wander and let your mind just
wander and think about all the possibilities.
And I think you yelled out, Aziz.
It's the penny. I think.
Like there was like a moment where it clicked because he's
like scratching around and like his sword, right?
So yeah, it was exciting to reel at 1st.
And they had shown Arlen. Yes, I thought he was whittling
because we'd seen one. We'd seen we'd seen egg
whittling. And then we'd seen young dunk
Whittle with Arlen and so like, oh, I guess he's whittling
because he's his mind's. I don't know, that's where my
mind was going. He's got a small knife.
So that would that's a seems like a good guess, yeah.
Gee, this is a. Great scene that we talked about
it already, but it's it's another example of several
scenes in this episode that have no dialogue at all and they
really make use of the best parts of the visual medium,
especially as compared to what books can't do.
This is a very entirely visual scene and it continues with him
packing shield. He looks at the shield.
He that's a nice show. Only touch he kept the shield
and it's it's broken in a way that the art isn't damaged.
So that's convenient. But hey, nice.
I like that the art isn't ruined.
So he gets to keep that. He takes some time looking at
it. He's he's reflecting on it.
Then he puts it in his saddlebags and and shortly after
egg shows up and says the book. Only the book line.
My Lord father says I am to serve you.
Dunk probably doesn't even consider the possibility that
egg is lying, even though he knows egg is capable of that.
He wants to believe he also knows it's better for Egg, or at
least strongly considers that. Did any of you ever consider
this in the book? Because obviously we don't know
about the ring until the next book the the boot.
So I suspect maybe a few of you readers out there guessed that
maybe that's what happened. On the other hand, it's just so
quick. It's just like Makar walks off
silently, doesn't respond to the comment about bloody beef and
sleeping in ditches. One paragraph later, Egg shows
up. So it's like it's hard to maybe
have time to think about the possibility rather than taking
it on face value. And then if you just go read the
Sworn Sword, then that's it. You know that there's almost
certainly that make our gay permission.
But I can see how they were able to fit this different ending in.
I don't think George intended it that way, but it's he might have
left it open for himself. George might have left that
open-ended so he could decide later.
And then between writing this book and the Sworn Sword, he's
like, OK, I'm going to go with that ring in the boot idea that
I was toying with. I yeah, I think Ira Parker saw
an opportunity and he seized it. And I think he seemed a.
Little sheepish in the BTS the making of about the decision
like little maybe concerned about the reaction, but his tone
in it was that him and many of the writers just were tickled by
it and the fact that he was it was possible without flouting
Canon right like that is a valid interpretation.
It is possible. It is regarding our poll.
I we, we ask in the poll in the show, did he steal make our
signet ring right? I think even if he didn't steal
it, there's easy, easily ways for them to interact with Makar
and get this ring, including in this, this series of flashbacks
or montages between, you know, the start proper of season 2.
So I think he can actually get it from his father without
stealing it, and it can all fit together perfectly.
Yeah, like if he puts out the APB, which stands for, you know,
Aegon Points Bulletin. And they just some castle, they
wander by and the guy's like, hey, you know, make our has been
looking for you, you know, then they have to, you know, resolve
that. So yeah, you're right.
There's it's not hard. There's there's not.
I really don't think there's a butterfly effect here of any
significance. So I'll go ahead and say the
point that I was going to make earlier.
It might get into some stuff we're going to talk about later,
but it just fits right now there when we're talking about that.
I think you can have both. I don't think this is a OR.
It doesn't have to necessarily be.
Egg is straight up lying and ran off without Makar's approval.
Makar could have said something along the lines if you guys can
imagine a million different. Scenarios.
They will all fall in the realm of fine.
You could go with that hedge night.
We'll summon him at the next tournament or I'll escort you
over there tomorrow morning or make sure he comes to see me so
I can give him the signet ring or there's all kinds of he would
have. We wouldn't have said where the
fuck is Egg got? You know he would have even like
he went. To that headshot, you know, he
would have known. He would know.
He would know where he went. He should go.
You know what I mean? Like, he kind of does know.
So I might, I might. Exactly, he might figure.
It out like literally egg and dunk riding down the road 2.
Minutes later, 2 Kings guards might ride up next to him, say
hey, hey, where you guys going? Egg come back now?
We got to do that. You know, it could be that
they're gone for two months and finally get discovered.
Or Egg admits to Dunk that he lied and it go back.
There's a million scenarios, all of which make it easier for him
to get the signet ring, but at least one of them is that Makar.
And that was a question earlier. Is it?
How did Egg even know that? Don't talk to him again.
And maybe because Makar told him.
Makar said, look, that night came back and I think he
convinced me. Oh, he knew he forgot the plans,
but you can go with him. He know he knows he came back.
Remember, like they're they're hugging and then dunk.
He said that the announcer. Says or the guard says Sir
Duncan is here to talk to you, so he knows he came back.
Yeah, but anyway. But I grew you.
I grew you overall. Point out that right.
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so.
It is a joyous moment, it's got. Some call back to Episode 1.
He's just like in episode 1, when Dunk is telling Egg how
difficult their life will be. Egg's face just gradually lights
up more and more. He's like, oh, I like this.
Like sleep by the sleeping ditches.
Yeah. Salt beef.
Bring it on. You know?
Well, actually, he doesn't really like the salt beef that
much, but he likes the idea in general, the, the, the living on
the road. And so it makes him smile being
told that, you know, being given orders by Dunk.
He's like, serve you, Sir. And he's like, he smiles at that
correction. Also, That's straight from the
novel, word for word. I've never been so happy to
repeat a phrase so many times throughout a group of several
weeks. So that's straight from the
novel. Said it so many times.
Yeah. These two love each other.
I mean, in the show and in real life, between the scene, behind
the scenes content, these two aren't acting about how much
they like each other. They have a legitimate real life
bond. I mean, not hard to believe,
right? They work together so much.
They're both seemly, you know, cool people.
So it's a good example of this final scene of combining some
pretty heavy emotions with great humor, like they're joking about
stuff. And, you know, we know that Egg
is, you know, fibbing, if not outright lying.
And that gives it a little out of additive humor.
Now, personally, I, I do know that in this moment, right, Egg
does no, no. Well, I'm saying no.
You're right, we don't know that he is lied.
You're right, we don't know that he's lied.
At this moment, that's. True.
Yeah, you're right. So.
I do. Want to say that I, I do prefer
the book ending. I, I don't like this change.
I do think it's good. I think it's a good ending, but
I just think it's like a nine out of 10, whereas I think
George is a 10 out of 10. I I prefer the weight of make
car realizing dunk is right. Yeah, I think a a lot of people
in the chat feel that there's more poignancies to to make
ours. Arc and to make ours character
and I agree with that but I think this is funnier.
Oh, absolutely. And so I want the funny.
And I think there's room for. Makar to hit.
That character beat and it gives a little bit more room and he
can see Makar now again in Season 2 for him to get that
moment right. So I, the jury's out for me.
I feel like if Makar gets there and he gets some level of
acceptance with this, it doesn't undercut that as much to me.
But if he never gets there and he's always like bristling, I, I
don't know, I don't like it as much, then yeah, that's why I'm
taking the line that I am. Or you know, two things you just
mentioned to share 1 is. That Ira Parker seemed to be
saying it's funny, it's just a joke, you know, like they just
had this neat idea. I think he said we had a thread
of justification and ran with it.
So combine that with the fact that I, I like the idea that the
book, by the way, in the book, it's not clear.
You don't know. And like you said, it just
happens pretty quick. So you don't have time to
contemplate. You just sort of sort of make
this assumption because it's just a paragraph later, but it
was the next day, which would have been enough time for, you
know, whatever kind of conversations or plans to
happen. But that's why I am kind of
choosing my head cannon. Is it?
Maker did see that Dunk was right, did decide the egg could
go with him, but just hadn't hammered out the details yet.
And Egg took off. And that's why maker is mad.
Like, wait, I didn't give him the signet.
Wait, where are they going first?
Wait, I got to make, you know, there's this thing he wanted to
communicate to Dunk and or Egg. He had a plan and Egg just ran
off. And remember also in the book,
Maker knows where Dunk is, and the show he doesn't.
So that's another reason he's like, he can't necessarily go to
where Dunk was because he was out of nowhere.
Dunk was where the Elm tree is. Yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, he still could track him. Down there's only so many roads
out of town, you know what I mean?
It can only. Move so fast.
They've got a bunch of guards that like.
I think realistically they just find him probably in a few
hours. I don't know about that because
it's not clear when Makar's leaving.
This could be this could be the next day.
Yeah, yeah, it's this epilogue. It's not going to be like a week
later because Makar's like I want to get out of here as soon
as possible. We can't assume this is like
just immediately after, but although he would be, he would,
it couldn't be a lot that long after because he would have
discovered. It wasn't a hurry to get out of
there. He was just couldn't have been
missing for that. That's what I get.
That's what I was going. To say he he would, he would
have learned it sooner. Yeah, I am real curious.
Whether Egg will communicate with his?
Father before or after door, whether that would happen before
or after they actually get to door, that that's what I would
hope to see in the first episode of Season 2.
Make another poll. I'd say before Dorn, I think
within a few. Weeks one way or the other.
We'll have that be our poll for the wrap up episode then.
How about that? Sure.
Yeah. OK, so this this next.
Little second to last scene. It's the last scene for Duncan
Egg. It starts with where should we
go? Anywhere in the 2nd 9 kingdoms.
That was so funny. He's technically correct.
The best kind of correct. Picture perfect pedantry.
And then they actually show the title screen and Night of the 9
Kingdoms. That just cherry on top
hilarious. And then it sets us up with this
really poignant final scene with no dialogue, great music and
sadness. Well, it's actually that you get
the poignant scene before you get.
The the punchline of the 9 Kingdoms thing, Like it kind of
like you have this sad if you're Shawn, you're sitting there
bawling and then you see 9 Kingdoms.
Or maybe he didn't even notice because he's crying so hard.
I didn't even notice. Didn't even notice.
Yeah, I figured. I figured that might be the
case, but yeah. It is a night of the 9 kingdoms.
After the write off. OK I got that wrong.
OK, cool. That is for Maycar.
Which is why like, it's not a post credit scenes, it's a post
title card. Scene, you know, it's like a
little bumper, it's an epilogue, right?
But yeah, I thought the title card there was so effective
because it was so like poignant and meaningful and sad.
The moment with Arlen and and then you get this this this
really funny visual gag. I very much approve as well of
of Egg's choice of Dorne also I. Just I also just love how
flummoxed Dunk was. I think I said that at the
beginning there, so no need to no need to repeat that.
I was just so funny. I appreciate that Egg is the one
to suggest Dorne instead of Dunk.
It works really well because 1. Egg has already been shown that
he's very good at anticipating Dunk's needs, wants, etcetera.
This is a more more insightful than most, but he's already he
caught dunks interest in Tanzel right away, like he clocked it
immediately. So there's that.
But also egg had a Dornish mother and a Dornish
grandmother. So a day in a Martel, which are
the extreme ends of western and eastern Dorn.
So he having curiosity about Dorn makes a ton of sense.
I mean there's just you don't need a reason to be curious
about Dorn. It's interesting, but this
really is quite fitting. I think I really liked the Nine
Kingdoms thing because like, yeah, you're right, it's
technically correct, but. It's technically incorrect too,
because there's also been way more than 9 kingdoms.
You know what I mean? Like the over over the years
there's been 100 kingdoms because history is long and
there have been many different borders.
And so, yeah, there've been 9 kingdoms and there's been,
there's 9 main regions, but there's been many times that
those kingdoms have been combined.
So all you can say many different numbers here, it'd be
correct as we've gone through during many different episodes
about the long history of Westeros.
You know, the like, I mean, there's like the petty kingdoms
period where there was like hundreds.
There were so many kingdoms, right?
There used to be so many. It's true.
At one point there was only 5 in fact, like.
When Aegon. To conquer came I.
Think there were only 5 because the Iron Islands had taken over
the No, there were seven. That's why it's seven.
That's why it's named 7, because there were seven at the time.
Yeah, there were 7. At the time, but more regions
than that and they also kind of like splintered.
Off some of them became 9 Sean because they added the crown
lands and then split and then they split.
The one that was combined, that's how it went from 7:00 to
9:00. OK, Yeah, well, then they also
had a Dorn. No, they just agon.
Claimed Dorn without conquering it.
He was just being arrogant. Yeah, or or getting ahead of
himself. Either one.
But he he he considered. Himself the rule Dorn, even
though he clearly didn't. One quick minor note it it
doesn't really take away or change anything.
But Dark was about to say Dorn in the subtitles.
It like cuts off the word Dorn. Oh really?
So they were when Egg says 9 Kingdoms.
Dunk was about to say Dorn. And egg says 9.
Kingdoms and Dunk's like what? And they go on the whole tangent
but he was going to say it on his own catch.
Good catch, definitely didn't see that.
So as they ride off into the sunset, it's like a proper.
Western, this is had a western vibe all along and the ending
really reflects out even more. Like it's not literally the
sunset, but the Sky's bright off to the right there.
You sort of see the sun. So Arlen is with them.
That's we talked about that. It's really poignant, really,
really great way to show it. But it's fantastical elements
and the level of unreality that they have in the show.
Right. That they do do this, that they
have. There's no ghost of Arlen right
there. We all know that.
Yeah. It's all like imagery.
Yeah, They. They.
They play with that in this show.
When? They.
Hadn't done that in the previous.
Two shows at all really, other than a prophecy.
Like in a prophecy or a dream? Damon's dreams is yeah, but
that's. Again, still with a prophecy or
a dream, It's not just your imagination.
Those are two very different like implementations of it.
I get I I worth mentioning, but I still think seeing something
in a prophecy or a dream is very different than like imagining
Arlen shrugging at you, right? Yeah, yeah, I agree.
And so he's he's basically he's riding off with Arlen.
Arlen is is still his heritage, so to speak.
Egg is his future. Dunk is but but Sir Arlen is his
past. That's where he came from.
That's the man he intends to live for, to live up to.
But also Baylor. He has to, in his mind, he has
to replace or make up for the loss of Baylor.
Like he's responsible for that. So it's his job to make Westeros
a better place because it's his fault that Baylor is is no
longer part of it. And Sir Arlen's upbringing
prepares him for that. So it's a really nice combo
there kind of between the lines. All right, let's talk about the
epilogue, the Targaryen epilogue.
There's a few kind of tidbits you can see visually as Makar is
riding around, like looking and where's Aegon Dare.
You can see Dare on drinking. He's just tilting back his cut
his his his wineskin or whatever.
And I kind of think like he was waiting for Makar to look away
before he took a drink. I'm not sure about that, but
kind of gave that vibe. You can also see Aryan looking
very rough and Valor riding all. The all the Princess, all the
men are riding up front. Yeah.
And Kiara's walking, which is that's kind of suggestive about
the the. Their marriage being very
political, not so warm is she's walking way back there and he's
riding to get her steps. Disease.
She's gotta get her steps every day.
Her Fitbit? Yeah.
I was telling her that she didn't have enough steps but she
is near some. Other like silver and blonde
haired individuals. It's interesting.
I would have expected these these people to be in a
carriage. And I think the only reason
they're not in a carriage is for the visual impact for us rather
than hiding them all away, like show the people they cast.
I don't know. I would assume they would not be
walking. That's probably true.
Yeah. Yeah.
I also appreciate this moment. Another one.
I was going. To mention, you know, after.
Dunk puts the penny in a tree and he's jumping over that stone
fence or whatever. I, I was even in my mind, I was
ready. Like if he just hurdles over
this like it's nothing. But he didn't.
He like, grimaced and groaned and slowly climbed over because
he's still so beat up. And same thing here with Aryan.
I'm glad he's not riding a horse.
He got his inner thigh ripped open.
How could he sit a saddle? Right now?
He's sitting in a carriage. I appreciate that continuity, if
you will. He looks so rough.
And grumpy. It's such a comical image to me,
just like. For that to be what they start
with is him beat up. Finn Bennett was talking about
how he's like. However, from now on, when
people do. Fan art of Aryan.
It's going to be me. And then he goes, I want a thing
to say. It's like very Aryan.
It's a very Aryan type thing to say.
Unfortunately for him, but it's. Cute.
I like it when the actor is just genuinely appreciate having
fans, having a fan base and having such like an engaged,
artistic, creative fan base. It's it's a bummer when people
are just kind of turned off by it and can't appreciate it
because it is unnerving, I'm sure.
But there is a real joy, I think, to getting people tagging
you and you like, I mean, you I've seen of Aryan specifically,
I've seen some of the most beautiful, like, you know, like
Renaissance type paintings, you know, like beautiful elaborate
paintings of him. And yeah, that's lovely.
Yeah. And it's, it's also just, you
know. Like you said, it's better to be
like that than I don't like a Stephen Dillane who just like
didn't get it, you know, He's like, I don't get the.
I didn't enjoy my time on Game of Thrones.
I didn't understand it or my character is like, yeah, that's
kind of. I mean, he wasn't being negative
about it. He was making it about himself.
He's like, I didn't get it. You know, it's not like there's
something wrong with it. He just just.
Yeah, but it's still kind of negative, obviously.
And the. But then whereas Finn Bennett's
like, yeah, all of it. Give me all the I'm give me
everything. I'm in the fandom.
I love who I my character. I love doing this.
I love being a part of this. Yeah, it's really bad energy is
certainly easier to appreciate. I think, as you were saying
before Shaya, you know, or hinting at this is even if we
prefer the bookend and you can see why they might have made a
an ending that's more about the main characters.
So yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think that's fair.
Yeah. I mean, Makar's character arc
isn't the most important character beat.
In this story, for them, right, for them to stick that landing.
And I think they still can. And it's it, it is just
hysterical. And we watched it with a lot of
people many times. And they all really laughed a
lot. I think it was like a, a crowd
pleaser of a scene. Two different people we watched
it with who didn't know anything about it were like, oh, I saw, I
I. Was suspicious about that.
They kind of saw it coming. So not saw it coming, but
suspected it might be coming. So that tells you the picture of
egg that's painted by the show version of the character who
was, you know, well, they they get him as the when when make
our calls him an unruly boy and both book and show, it's like,
yeah, this is the unrulyness they're talking about.
So I think show audience might be a little more actually a
little more keyed into that because they're not thinking
about egg's whole life like we are trying to put it all
together. They're like, oh, this is that
little Rascal Egg. He's a mischievous boy and he
he, you know, makes little. Lies of a mission and and all of
that right yeah, they're more maybe a little more in touch
with just the the basic aspects of this character the other.
Thing I think that this does for the maybe more of the casual
viewer, but also even. For us who've read the books is
it adds this unknown that we, you know, wonder about this like
fire underneath them, right? Like they're they might be
chased. You've brought it up multiple
times, Sean, that like the Kingsguard could just chase them
down. That's something that for people
to speculate about going to Season 2 and for them then to
anticipate that it might start with some kind of element of
like they are being haunted down.
You know, it's an extreme word, but that is what's what's what's
going to happen. Like Makar is going to send
people after them. Probably, yeah.
And maybe you say, yeah, like you said, maybe he'd sent those
two Kings card there. Maybe they both ran off in.
Different directions to look and they just didn't choose the
right direction because there's a lot of there's a lot of ways
to go. You know, it's the Reach did say
a couple things. Like you, it's noteworthy.
We talked a bit early on about the idea of like the POV we
would get and whether it be all Dunk or all non nobles and it
they kind of broke the rule with this by giving us APO view if it
was of nobles, it didn't even include Dunk or whatever else.
That's why it's an epilogue. It's not part of the story
proper like he was justifying. Oh, this is.
Post you know he wanted that night.
Night of the 9 Kingdoms to be like a dividing moment of the
real show and what they're doing afterwards.
But he did clarify in there that he had promised George that he
wouldn't change story. He would like embellish on the
story that's there. You know what I mean?
But he wouldn't change the story.
And so I think this, however significant this or, or featured
or whatever this is, I like it because they can do it without
changing the story. If they, if we do see Kingsguard
hunt egg and dunk down, whether it's two hours later or two
months later, they hunt him down, maybe he gets chastised,
they give him a signet and then they go on to Dorn and wherever
else. You know what I mean?
It they can do it all. Yeah.
It's just hard to. I need to add to being
mischievous and not changing plot.
Yeah. I agree totally.
All right, let's have some final thoughts.
Do you have any? Oh, first.
Stannis Baratheon, 3356, says Lionel.
Since the Super chats is Lionel, I've come not to praise Baylor.
We were just talking about you, Stannis.
Yeah, we were. So Sean and Ashaya?
Do you have any final thoughts? We actually will be able to give
more final thoughts during our wrap up, so we don't have to get
it all out here. But if you have some things
you're inspired to say now, this is a good time for it.
I will just say that I'm a huge comedy fan.
I I really. Am it's more my genre than
drama. I like comedies more.
I watch more comedies. I rewatch more comedies for
unsurprisingly, right. So for me personally, this hits
my interest perfectly. It hits I love A song of Ice and
Fire, my favorite fandom. I love comedy, my favorite type
of story, I suppose I could say and fantasy as well.
So of fantasy comedy is just perfect and I think I anyone
who's listened to us for a long time has known that I've always
wanted this to be animated. They proved me wrong.
I do think Dexter Soul and cell blept off the page as egg.
I think he's perfect. I'm eager to see how the arc of
the show goes as he ages up and, you know, eager and and slightly
nervous, but but I think he will still capture the essence of the
character, even if he's older than you know, he would have
been right. Dunk.
I still wish he was younger because I really felt his his
his youth in the book. And it was part of what and even
more endeared me to him was that he was like a child raising a
child. And I don't know, I feel Peter
Clappy captures that vulnerability and that cultish
kind of growing up quality. So overall, the things I was
worried about or leery of, I was mostly proven wrong.
I, I think I just really, really like the show.
I think it is my favorite of the three shows, but we'll see how
season 2 goes. But my favorite of the three
books is the second one, The Sworn Sword, so I have a good
feeling about that one too. Sean, I think that similar to
Shaya. It it the show?
Surprised me how good it was. Like I and you know, I that said
I even had high expectations, you know, I was with the Shaya
as far as wanting to be animated.
I thought a lot of the problems a show would have that making
the anime solve those, but a combination of how how so well
they cast it and how even as we discussed, Dunk being aged up a
little isn't isn't bad at all. And they've got the budget for
it, you know, being animated makes it a a cheaper budget.
But that I'm happy if HBO or Warner Brothers, whoever it is,
is finding the right budget and ostensibly probably finds a
bigger audience too. But being animated probably
would have given a more niche audience.
So there are a few things about it that, you know, I was worried
about, if you will, that they maybe didn't do as perfect as I
would want, but no one does as perfect as as I want.
So I can't complain much. And they did better than I
thought they would. As I mentioned, lingering
injuries after the joust, you know, the the relatively
realistic fight itself. You know, there's a couple
things in there that bother me a little bit.
Whereas usually it's like flipped around.
Usually a fight scene like that, there will be 10% I like and 90%
I'm rolling in my eyes. Yeah.
And this was 90% I like and only 10% rolling my eyes at.
So I do like dramas more, but I do also like comedies, just kind
of a on the same lines of share. And I don't know, you know, if I
would call this a comedy. I think that this is a adventure
drama with some comedy in it. And I'm fine with that because I
think most of my favorite shows are ostensibly my very top shows
are usually dramas, but most of my favorite shows like my top
ten shows, probably 8 of them are dramas.
What are my top 100 shows? 80 of them are ostensibly
comedies that end up having some serious parts.
And that's kind of what this was, you know what I mean?
It had it was light and had a lot of comedic moments, but
really what it's about was some serious stuff.
Comedies are all rage. Comedies are all the rage,
right? Well, I.
Guess where? Where will they enter it?
It's a. Half hour show, which is often.
Pushes it towards the comedy category.
True. Yeah.
Like for award season, Yeah. Where will they come shit for
them? And my other question, Will
Dexter? Solancel get the Emmy nom
because I. Really hope.
He does. I really want this show to get
recognized. Yeah, it would be awesome.
It would be awesome. So yeah, I got to say I'm.
Dubious. I think it might get a couple
nominations, but I was pretty well Sean.
Like the timing of the year of when it aired is pretty.
Decent because the. Emmy noms end.
May 31st. So it's relatively critical.
Reaction's been really strong too.
So yeah, you know, I think people might want to the.
Past Game of Thrones shows did pretty well at the awards I
think. Maybe Peter?
Doesn't actually get the nom. But I think maybe they'll want
to shout out a. A, you know, very good young
actor in Dexter. We will.
We'll see, I guess June. We'll find out.
We'll see. So nothing is perfect, but this
was better quality than we dared hope.
For I think, as Shawn and Shaya both hinted at or said
straightforwardly, and it's definitely a huge success by any
objective measure. I'm thankful for that and for
the ripple effect it will have on the fandom.
Some of that we're already seeing.
We already talked about how people that never watched a Game
of Thrones show at all are liking this one.
More people are going to read The Hedge Night now and then,
The Sword and Sword and the Mystery Night, and that might
even bring them into A Song of Ice and Fire.
And a few people that are into A Song of Ice and Fire that
haven't read the novellas will do that.
They will at least many of them will get it, so to speak, and
they'll become one of us. So in Season 2 hits, by the time
that happens, they'll be quite a few more people that have you're
caught up, so to speak. They'll be more educated on the
world and George's world building and all the stories.
And they'll maybe have read things two or three times
instead of just once. And then you'll be one of us,
one of us, one of us. And perhaps the best possible
inspiration would be George, the great success of this, One of
the things that made it hard for us to temper our expectations
was that George said it was really good and that, like, as
he says, you know, I'm very reasonable about these things.
So yeah, like the fact that George liked it so much was
like, it's really hard to think this is going to be bad if
George liked. It.
And I think this is good for George's writing because it
helps. It makes help.
It makes him feel good. Makes him feel inspired.
I do wonder how much he's going to be unable to resist working
on more Dunkin Egg stuff just by his his claims otherwise.
And I think he should be free to do that even if he's not
publishing it. Like I if it helps you to write
something to take like a break and write something that you
enjoy more or that's easier or that's more simple or whatever
you want to say that's good for your writing and it's hurting
your writing. If you like, put these these
rules on yourself that stop you. And that's he got a lot of
writing done when he worked on Fire and Blood because it got
the juices flowing, you know, and he probably didn't get a
whole rod wasn't helping that when he was having the problems
with. House of the Dragon, you know,
on the arguing and the negativity and all that, that's
not going to make your writing better.
It's not going to translate into more inspiration.
So yeah, this is the opposite effect.
So hopefully that has a lot of positivity.
So yeah, our poll. What do you what did you get
there, Shay? What do we what's our result in
the show? Did egg steal make our signet
ring? Yes. 64%, no 36% and at the
beginning it was a lot more guest favored and it slowly
became more even still slightly favored to yes, he stole it.
But definitely, I mean, I think the strongest argument for him
not stealing it is does Makar wear this ring all the time?
And does Makar just not notice that he's not wearing his ring?
That's why I don't think he stole it.
Yeah, that's it is a hard thing to steal.
It's something he would be wearing a lot of.
It wouldn't be quite as hard to steal as like a.
Wedding band but yeah it's not the thing kind of thing you take
off very much and not a lot of time had passed it's like he's
like waiting for him to go to sleep and stealing it off of his
bedside table but that could have been what happened Two
other I think solidarity mints against him stealing it or one
that I think maker just. Gives it to him whether you
already did or ends up doing it. 1-2 maybe.
More importantly, I don't think he's a thief.
He might be mischievous, maybe even a little dishonest.
I don't think it's a thief. Oh, yeah, Yeah.
No, that's possible. Yeah.
So that's it for this episode y'all.
Thank you for participating. Thank you for being with us all
season long, but we're going to keep keep on going.
Of course, join us next week for the wrap up episode and make
sure to check out our other related episodes.
We have done full reviews of the Hedge, Night sworn Sword, the
mystery Night, 2 episodes on Baylor breaks beer like 9
episodes on the black fire rebellions, maybe an episode on
Sir one of the mirror shield. We have a fun episode called the
future of Duncan Egg. There you go.
Palma Shelby said for 4/20 says what if he stole Baylor's?
That's really funny to me. I actually think that's
hilarious. So if he's not a thief, you
think he's. A grave robber, The ashes after
the fact. What did that guy say?
It's not stealing. It's not.
Stealing from dead nobles, right?
That's not stealing. That was already referenced in
the show. He will say when, when, Doug's
like, where did you get this from?
From Bay Horse. Body and then you'll say.
That imagine you'd be horrified. Be like what?
Heck, you did what you. Had the same Baphomet that he
had at 9 kingdoms. All right, folks, on behalf of
Shawn and Shaya, thanks for I'm Aziz.
Thanks. For hanging out with us and
enjoying the season, we got a lot more to come.
And thanks to Bran the Builder for his excellent intro that a
lot of people are watching and commenting on and saying it's
great. We agree.
It's got captures the vibe of the show so well.
What's that? I do see one comment from
someone that said from Bourbon Wolfswood.
In the last scene Makar did not have the ring on when we see his
hands. Seems like a a good clue whether
he wears it. Does he wear?
Yeah Does he have it? Does he always wear it?
I will have to do some research. And come back to you in the wrap
up. We will have to do some zoom and
enhance to look for that ring. The Baker's signet ring.
Mystery is upon us, my friends, so you all know.
Now that the show is over, you have a little extra time, so
Valar reread us. The.