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Hello my fellow Westorians. 
Happy Sunday, happy July 4th. 

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Welcome to Valeritas For Dunkin 
Egg. 

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Our approach will be different 
than it was for A Song of Ice 

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and Fire. 
Rather than setting out a 

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specific number of chapters each
week, we'll aim to spend about 

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two hours per episode, covering 
as much as we can each time. 

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There will be a lot of coverage 
of the setting parallels and 

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plot connections to A Song of 
Ice and Fire and almost 

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everything else else you can 
imagine. 

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And I know you can imagine quite
a bit. 

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Obviously that's a Star Wars 
reference, maybe not obviously 

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to a few of you, but I think 
most of you get that. 

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And well, one of the reasons I 
like to throw Star Wars 

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references in is because, well, 
I like Star Wars, but also 

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because Sean, one of your former
nickname, one of your many 

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nicknames, people know you as 
Dancing Sean, Sean of House 

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Beard, but sometimes you're Sean
Solo, are you not? 

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Yes, yes, yes. 
I am somewhat of a Star Wars 

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fan, but I'm really a Han Solo. 
You're. 

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Not really Sean Solo anymore 
though. 

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Yeah, you're not solo anymore. 
Yeah, you can't really call 

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yourself Sean Solo when you're 
newly married. 

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Sean Duo. 
Sean Duo that's great that's 

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great What are you drinking 
today, Sean It's similar to last

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week. 
It's one of the naked drinks, 

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but the Berry protein instead of
the green protein and it also 

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has Mountain Dew. 
But this week I got in a 

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watermelon sparkling ice which 
it really the just the smell of 

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the watermelon makes it so 
delightful. 

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So delightful. 
I bet Duncan enjoy a beverage 

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like that. 
He's never had any of the 

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individual drinks that make up 
that strange concoction, but 

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he'd be game to try. 
Well, thanks to Nina for her 

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contributions. 
We're going to have extra 

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thoughts from her today, as we 
often do. 

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Good queenalley.tumblr.com. 
Thanks as well to all of you who

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contribute on our discussion 
groups. 

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Some good questions are in here 
today as always as well. 

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Now good discussions are 
happening on Facebook and Flick 

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and Discord, and sometimes on 
Slack as well. 

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We also, of course, offer the 
chance for you to ask live 

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questions and you can send them 
ahead of time as well. 

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Thanks as well to our lovely 
patrons. 

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Without you, we would not be 
able to keep the lights on. 

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We're not be able to do this at 
all. 

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We'd have to spend most of our 
time doing other things. 

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So we are. 
How many patrons does it take to

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screw in a library? 
I don't know, I'll have to send 

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them a group message and ask. 
Maybe we'll find out. 

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Last time we focused on set up 
what the realm is like at the 

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time of this novella. 
And then we had a detailed look 

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at the first scene we discussed 
the life of a hedge night. 

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The massive differences in 
perspective and lifestyle were 

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shown through this character's 
POV, and we laid the groundwork 

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for his parallels and ancestral 
connection to Brienne, 

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especially as it pertains to 
knighthood, while teasing a lot 

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more to come in that department,
not to mention quite a few other

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comparisons and other surprises 
along the way. 

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Some of these themes are going 
to continue on, and we've got a 

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few new items to discuss as 
well, of course. 

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Let's see what today brings us. 
A my fellow W Oriens and a Sean.

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Sean solo dancing Sean. 
And a fellow Canadian. 

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True, true. 
So let's talk about the the 

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meeting. 
Sweet Foot had an easier gait 

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than old Chestnut, but Dunk was 
still sore and tired when he 

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spied the N ahead tall dog and 
timber building beside a stream.

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Warm yellow light spilling from 
his windows looked so inviting 

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that he could not pass it by. 
I have 3 silver, he told 

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himself. 
Enough for a good meal and as 

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much ale as I care to drink. 
As he just mounted, a naked boy 

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emerged dripping from the 
stream. 

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He had to stride himself on a 
rough spun ground cloak. 

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Are you the stable boy? 
Dunk asked him, glad. 

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Looked to be no more than 8 or 
9. 

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Hasty face, anything. 
His bare feet kicked in mud up 

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to the ankle. 
His hair was the furious thing 

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about him. 
He had none. 

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He did have none. 
So something strikes me just as 

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we're reading this. 
I didn't have this in my notes, 

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but him emerging dripping from 
the stream reminds me of Bran's 

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vision of the pregnant woman 
emerging from the pool beneath 

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the weirwood at Winterfell. 
And of course the next vision in

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that sequence is of a young 
woman standing on her tip toes 

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to kiss a knight as tall as 
Hodor. 

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A popular belief is that is 
Dunk, and since these visions 

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are in reverse chronological 
order, it's even possible that 

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if they're the same person, this
woman, that that is the child of

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Duncan's, which of course we 
know there's children out there 

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and we know Hodor is a is a 
strong potential to be his 

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descendant. 
Got a? 

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Another. 
Go with what comes. 

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Another thought that just popped
into my head reading that, which

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is a little bit more broad I 
guess, but I wonder if it's sort

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of a baptism. 
Yeah. 

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Come anew from his princely self
into this stable boy Squire. 

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Role with shaved head baptized 
yeah that's a very much kind of 

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emerging anew. 
You're right that's some that's 

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very strong symbolic resonance 
there I think I think you're on 

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to something there. 
Nina writes just as Dunk's first

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introduction to some extent 
hints towards his own death. 

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So eggs does as well emerging 
wet alone and naked from a 

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stream by a humble in a far cry 
from how he's going to die 50 

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years from now in flames. 
So that's also kind of a 

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bookending or an opposite you 
know merging from the water to 

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eventually go into the flames or
into the sand. 

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We're not exactly sure some 
that's something we'll talk 

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about today. 
The interplay between sand and 

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wildfire is something that we 
have to keep our eyes on because

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sand is one of the few things 
that sort of stops wildfire. 

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It doesn't stop it, but it helps
a little bit. 

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Or if it gets going soon enough,
it can stop it before it it 

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really spreads. 
Continues here. 

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Yeah. 
In one way, Eggs emerging naked 

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may prefigure the birth of his 
own great grandson, Rhaegar, who

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was also born at Summerhall 
during these flakes. 

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And that's the day Egg and Dunk 
died as well. 

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So really almost everything here
when we're reading like the 

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entire story, it's we really 
have to be on our toes keeping a

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lookout for things that tie into
Summer Hall and connect to all 

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that. 
Of course, we also see 

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comparisons to things happening 
in book one of the Game of 

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Thrones and book 5, and perhaps 
in between as well, if we 

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consider characters like Sansa 
who have also used tricks with 

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their hair to conceal their 
identity. 

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But of course, I'm referring to 
shaving your hair here, right? 

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Shaving hair to hide identity, 
which of course makes us think 

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of Varis. 
Now, Varis doesn't have purple 

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eyes, but you can see here that 
the shaving of his hair and 

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basically Dunk isn't able to 
tell that his eyes are purple. 

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They look, he said they look, he
thinks they look almost purple, 

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which really they're they're 
just a dark purple. 

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And that's kind of why. 
But Varus's identity there, it's

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been long theorized that maybe 
he shaved his head because it's 

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a certain color. 
Certainly it makes us think of 

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him. 
Of course, we learned from the 

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Mercy chapter that shaved heads 
are ideal for wigs. 

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So there's also that. 
But it doesn't have to be just 

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one thing, right? 
There's lots of things that are 

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going on, right? 
We don't just say, oh, it's, 

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it's for wigs and then be done 
with it. 

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No, there's there. 
There could be multiple reasons.

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So what did this, did this 
strike you when you were reading

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the scene? 
Did you think of virus or did 

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you come up, did that thank you 
later or what? 

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What do you have to say about 
the scene in general I guess 

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would be my question. 
I, I didn't think of that. 

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I did think a lot about like the
shaved head maybe makes them 

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seem younger or maybe even more 
innocent, but I didn't make the 

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connection to to virus or other 
I I had seen in the notes from 

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before the the comparisons that 
other people trying to disguise 

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themselves. 
And that kind of makes sense, 

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although in a certain way shaved
head draws more attention to 

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you, but but it doesn't 
necessarily reveal who you are 

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as much as the the Targaryen 
white hair, you know? 

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That's a good point. 
Yeah. 

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He was like, boy, this kid's got
like, what happened to him? 

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Where's your hair, you know? 
And it happens a couple more 

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times in a story. 
People will take note of his 

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lack of hairs. 
Yeah, but you're right. 

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Like if he had silver hair, 
they'd definitely take way more 

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notice. 
That would be far more 

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outstanding. 
You're right. 

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So it's it's the lesser of two 
notable hairstyles, I suppose 

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you could say. 
Another thing I'll say is from 

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this passage and once we've read
earlier and throughout the whole

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thing, maybe a little bit of 
tangent, but I still think this 

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is a good thing to go for it. 
I remember in high school in 

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English class, I, I remember for
the most part, and I just didn't

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like a lot of my teachers in 
school. 

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I, I, for the most part, as a 
good student, I wanted to learn,

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but I was kind of disappointed 
when teachers seem like they're 

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going through motions. 
If I could get away with the 

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class and not read the book, you
know, like pass the test without

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having read it. 
I was like, man, screw this 

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class, Screw this teacher. 
But I had one teacher really 

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challenged me. 
She wasn't asking questions like

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what happened when they went to 
the end. 

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You know what? 
I mean, that's just to see if 

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you read it, yeah. 
She would ask questions, she 

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assumed we read it right and 
would ask questions like why did

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the author choose to have them 
in whatever location, you know, 

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she, she assumed we not only 
read this book, but read the 

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author's biography. 
You know, I really wanted us to 

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like really research everything 
around it and find meaning and 

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everything. 
I, I took that and put that 

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effort into film, you know, 
analyzing film in that way. 

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And one thing I, I remember this
a, a thought, a way to write, a 

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potential virtue or signal of 
expertise in writing or 

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whatever, is that every word is 
chosen for a specific reason. 

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There's, there's nothing missing
and there's nothing extra. 

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Everything there was placed 
carefully. 

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And Martin I think is the 
epitome of that, that I think 

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every scene, every sentence, 
every adjective, he's so 

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perfectly carefully piercing 
every little bit together. 

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It's created a whole community 
of people reading these books 

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over and over again and hours 
and thousands of hours of 

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discussion about it. 
And I, I think even just as this

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little paragraph that we read 
and we're like, oh, that could 

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mean this, that could mean this.
Think about these other times 

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that happened. 
There's so much to every little 

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bit of it. 
And that that's why we're doing 

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this whole podcast. 
You're totally right. 

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That's very well said, and it's 
why I wanted to go a little 

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slower through this. 
I mean, we blasted through the 

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books. 
We covered them well, I think, 

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but we could have gone at a much
slower pace and not been 

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repetitive. 
You know, we would have still, 

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we would have had more to think 
about, more to do. 

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You know, it would have taken a 
lot longer. 

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We were trying to make sure we 
were done before when's the 

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winter comes out. 
Of course we still have plenty 

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of time, but you know, we 
couldn't have known that at the 

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time we. 
Didn't know that. 

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Right, we we didn't want to be 
caught halfway through or 

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something like that. 
That's part of why we're doing 

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here is taking a little more 
time with that and that's it's 

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it's paying off already even 
though it's only episode 2 here.

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Here we go. 
I had a a realization while, you

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know, something I hadn't thought
about before. 

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And Jonathan Hagee in the chat 
comments says the egg emerging 

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from the water like that also 
reminds him of the Danny scene 

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at the mother of mountains where
there's the Crohn's making 

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emerging from the water and to 
kneel before her and all that. 

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So that's neat. 
Yeah. 

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There's definitely some some 
connections to be made here, 

226
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,800
surely some more that we haven't
thought of. 

227
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,840
But yeah, now, on top of of 
Varus's shaved head being 

228
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,800
similar, we also have Young 
Griff who dyes his hair instead 

229
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,360
of coloring it. 
Now it's the same thing, right? 

230
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,760
Tyrion's like the blue hair. 
This kids are going to laugh at 

231
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,640
you for your blue hair, you 
know, you know, blah, blah, 

232
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:34,880
blah. 
He just makes these jokes about 

233
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,520
him. 
But it's the same point. 

234
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,880
If he had silver hair, they'd be
saying a lot more. 

235
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,560
They'd be pointing and they 
might not be laughing. 

236
00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,280
They'd be like, whoa, look at 
that, Targaryen or something. 

237
00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,560
Like, what's his deal? 
Of course, in Essos that's less 

238
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,400
true 'cause there's plenty of 
silver haired people around. 

239
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,880
There's plenty of blue haired 
people around in Essos too. 

240
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,520
Yeah, that's a good point. 
That's a very good point. 

241
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,360
So when he gets to Westeros, 
he's like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm 

242
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,640
gonna take this dye out or not 
reapply it or whatever. 

243
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,040
But it it's a similar concept, 
you know, hair is one of the 

244
00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,040
best ways to conceal your 
identity that we have without 

245
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,560
putting on a disguise, right? 
I guess you could say blue hair 

246
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,200
is sort of a disguise. 
But you know, Jamie shaves his 

247
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,760
head and grows out a beard to 
try to go. 

248
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,400
You know, there's lots of 
examples like this. 

249
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,240
A famous person concealing their
identity by changing some basic 

250
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,680
features. 
The image of Aegon Thunder. 

251
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,000
This is also another parallel 
here Nina caught. 

252
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,920
It's a similar enough to 
Barristan the bold. 

253
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:34,240
Remember, Barristan was too 
young to even fit his armor, but

254
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,200
he made it into the tournament, 
you know, kind of snuck his way 

255
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,680
in and and couldn't really hold 
his Lance up properly. 

256
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,400
But everyone loved it because 
look at this bold boy. 

257
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,560
They cried, right? 
And they're all excited. 

258
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:51,520
And it was, in fact, Prince 
Duncan the small who actually 

259
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,560
accepted the challenge and, you 
know, beat him friendly, you 

260
00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,040
know, didn't like Lance him in 
the face or something. 

261
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,680
Just, you know, gave him what 
he, you know, he gave him what 

262
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,040
he wanted. 
He's like, I want to compete. 

263
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,080
And he gave him the chance to 
compete and then unmasked him, 

264
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,720
as is the tradition for a 
defeated mystery knight. 

265
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,600
And it's a 10 year old kid. 
And so the dots are connected, 

266
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,520
right? 
You've got Egg's son doing this.

267
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,400
And it's pretty similar to Egg 
sitting on the back of this 

268
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,400
horse, the armor too big for 
him. 

269
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,360
You know, Dunk catches him that 
way. 

270
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,320
And he doesn't call him bold. 
Oh yes, he. 

271
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,920
Bold as you please, yeah. 
He says it, he thinks it in his 

272
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,320
mind, but yeah, he. 
Doesn't say it. 

273
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,480
He thinks it. 
OK, so it is there. 

274
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,280
Yeah. 
In fact, actually, that's right 

275
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240
here in the notes. 
Also, Nina throws in a note 

276
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,200
about Erea Targaryen, another 
person that concealed her 

277
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,840
identity, dyed her hair muddy 
brown and then hid in the 

278
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,680
stables. 
So this is perhaps even closer 

279
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,920
to of a parallel in that sense. 
Then of course, that ending was 

280
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,480
very tragic. 
But so is dunks, or so is 

281
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,480
dunking eggs. 
But Ares was much quicker hers. 

282
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,640
Her tragic end was, you know, 
when she was still very young. 

283
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,040
I guess Sean doesn't even know 
what her tragic end is, huh? 

284
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,720
We're not going to tell him, but
I just realized he has no idea. 

285
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,560
That's true. 
I just kind of that took that 

286
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:12,520
for granted. 
You're right. 

287
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:19,080
But it's also fiery and awful, 
so we'll talk about that some 

288
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,440
other time. 
But yeah, it's not good. 

289
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,080
That was something that Rita and
I were talking about is that 

290
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,200
even though I'm not as 
completely unsolied as I used to

291
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,920
be, that I still, I, I think 
still a similar role in this 

292
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,520
coverage here, that my takes are
still relatively original. 

293
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,600
I'm not. 
I'm not tainted by by years of 

294
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,920
research into this and and all 
of the other established takes. 

295
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,720
I'm still kind of coming up with
this on my own. 

296
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,360
And sometimes it means I have 
blind spots to potential 

297
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,600
parallels or other ironies have 
come, things to come in the 

298
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,600
future or things that happen in 
the past or whatever. 

299
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,160
So it's good, Yeah, it is a 
good. 

300
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,520
I think we do work together well
in that sense because of that. 

301
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,960
A couple other things on my mind
fire away this little area here 

302
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,440
1 is the nature of how we're 
we're trying to go kind of 

303
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,760
chronological, right. 
We had a lot of introduction and

304
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,000
background and we're going a lot
of tangents but we're sort of 

305
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,400
trying to go chronological good 
way to cover everything but 

306
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,400
because we do jump around so 
much by the time we get to the 

307
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,880
end we're probably like, oh, 
we've already done it but to an 

308
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,520
extension of that something it's
it's going to be a point that's 

309
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,720
going to come up later, but it's
coming up now so I'm going to 

310
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,280
bring it up now. 
The idea of bears in a bowl and 

311
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:31,680
entering the tournament is a 
mystery. 

312
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,800
And the next book, or I guess 
it's two books from now the the 

313
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,800
mystery now John the Fiddler, 
right joints. 

314
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,240
It's a common thing, and in 
fact, didn't Lyanna Stark? 

315
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,520
At least she's entered as a 
mystery knight. 

316
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,320
Knight of the Last Mystery. 
Absolutely good call. 

317
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,480
Here's a point that Rita brought
up that was like, yeah, good 

318
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,120
idea. 
Think all the hassle Dunk gets 

319
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,200
trying to enter the lists. 
Like, who are you? 

320
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,720
How do we know you're a knight? 
Had embarrassing a boat in the 

321
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,200
other list. 
He should have been a mystery 

322
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,120
tonight. 
Yeah, well, well, because it's 

323
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,080
it's in part because they just 
rode up, like in their gear and 

324
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,320
they look like a knight. 
That's the big problem for Dunk 

325
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,880
is he doesn't look like a 
knight. 

326
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,600
It's really the appearance is 
really, I think, crucial here. 

327
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,960
They look at his rope belt, at 
his lack of any display of 

328
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,880
wealth at all, and they're like.
I don't know. 

329
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,880
If I saw a big, big, big man 
roll up ready to to be part of 

330
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,440
it, I'd be like, OK, that's a 
fighter, right? 

331
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,040
I would, you would, but like a 
lot of these nobles, they're 

332
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,920
like. 
I would maybe I if I was a 

333
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,040
noble, I'd be like, I don't want
him to fight. 

334
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,160
That's why everyone was trying 
to stop him. 

335
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,040
Now we're uncovering the real 
reason they keep this all closed

336
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,960
off. 
They don't want, they don't want

337
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,720
to get beaten. 
But there there really is 

338
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,080
literally the the people letting
him into the list are 

339
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,400
gatekeepers. 
They are. 

340
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,120
And they got to make sure you 
look the look and play the role.

341
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,920
And so and maybe even I thought 
maybe like someone like Leanna 

342
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,760
Stark, she could go have someone
on her behalf, like, hey, go, 

343
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,080
get go tell him I'm someones 
doing a tournament. 

344
00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,560
I'm a mystery night. 
I'll be there. 

345
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,360
I still seems like it's a lot to
keep the secrets. 

346
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,839
You know who's she telling, and 
the person she tells has to just

347
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:06,640
go along with it. 
Are they paying money? 

348
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,200
Is there any dishonorable 
bribery involved in entering a 

349
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,400
mystery night? 
Anyway, it was just a thought, a

350
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,160
thought that I hadn't 
considered. 

351
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,000
The idea that trouble that Dunks
having get in where other 

352
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,800
characters who are traitors or 
women or like all these other 

353
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,000
things that won't be allowed, 
they get in somehow. 

354
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,040
So I think what you said, 
basically, it's his appearance. 

355
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,880
He just doesn't look fancy. 
Something I wanted to to 

356
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,160
leverage for this episode for 
talking about tournaments is 

357
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,120
your own personal experience. 
You used to run magic 

358
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,240
tournaments and other 
tournaments at this at your 

359
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,920
place of employment super games 
for a long time. 

360
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,960
And that's that could be a 
pretty big hassle. 

361
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,280
You got lots of different people
complaining about the rules. 

362
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,040
You got different formats to 
manage and that's one thing I 

363
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,360
wanted to bring up is different 
formats. 

364
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,160
That's one difference here is 
you got different people holding

365
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,680
There's no there's no like set 
rules. 

366
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,640
Someone says I want to hold a 
tournament. 

367
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,520
They get to make whatever rules 
they want. 

368
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,640
So they don't necessarily have 
to be this barrier the same 

369
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,920
barriers to entry to all of 
them. 

370
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,600
You know what I'm saying? 
Plus we've had time has passed, 

371
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,320
you know, cultures changed a 
little bit, certain attitudes 

372
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,760
are different. 
I figure in this time there 

373
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,800
might be even more gatekeeping 
in this era because the realm is

374
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,080
less united. 
We just got through talking last

375
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,760
episode in depth about how the 
Dornish are not fully accepted 

376
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,200
and they don't really all want 
to be. 

377
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,040
They're not exactly like 
chomping at the bit, champing at

378
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,840
the bit, whichever you prefer to
to fight in tournaments in 

379
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,600
Westeros. 
Maybe they want to do other 

380
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,760
things in Westeros, but not all.
They're not all happy. 

381
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,800
They're not like fired up to go 
make friends with all these 

382
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,560
people that they've been enemies
with forever. 

383
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,040
And by the same token, our our 
good friend Javi Marcos from 

384
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,960
breaking podcast sends a 
question, says, what can we 

385
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:51,360
imagine would be in the hedge 
night had George fully created 

386
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,720
and fleshed out the black fires?
Like, how would the story have 

387
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,880
changed? 
And that's a perfect example. 

388
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,880
What we're talking about. 
That's someone they would date, 

389
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,320
keep like, oh, you were you 
fought for the black dragon. 

390
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,120
I don't know if we want to, you 
know, are you welcome here? 

391
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,120
That's exactly the kind of thing
that they might stay home 

392
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:10,120
because they're not welcome or 
they might be shunned a bit 

393
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:13,080
because of what side they took 
in this big civil war. 

394
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,520
That was only, you know, 15 
years ago or 13 years ago. 

395
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,560
In fact, the gatekeeping might 
have even tightened up when they

396
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,880
knew the Princess were coming. 
Yeah. 

397
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,560
Yeah, we can't let this guy in 
with his rope belt, not when the

398
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,960
Princess are here. 
Right. 

399
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,280
And they might have even been a 
little bit looser at the and the

400
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,280
mystery night. 
They might have wanted to get as

401
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,920
many people involved as 
possible. 

402
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,920
That one they might have wanted 
witnesses to the event, or 

403
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,960
allies to gather a word to 
spread, or whatever. 

404
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,040
As long as none of them beat 
John the Fiddler, you're right. 

405
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,040
Like they're the witnessing is a
good thing. 

406
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,680
Because they wanted everybody to
see him win. 

407
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:46,800
You're right. 
They wanted to see. 

408
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,080
They wanted, of course they were
manufacturing it, but they 

409
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,960
wanted as many eyes to be 
impressed as possible and spread

410
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,840
the word. 
So yeah, that's a really good 

411
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,560
point too. 
I will say by the way, I did 

412
00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,840
run, yeah. 
So many it was almost like 

413
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,280
almost every day sometimes, 
right? 

414
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,560
Yeah, yeah, pretty much every 
day of the week. 

415
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,000
And, and sometimes we'd have 
small tournaments like, well, 

416
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,120
eight person tournaments, we'd 
do like 10 a day. 

417
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,760
Sometimes it'd be 150. 
Some people you know in. 

418
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,640
Case it wasn't clear, folks 
running Magic the Gathering, 

419
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,480
Yu-gi-oh, Pokémon, things like 
that. 

420
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,320
You know, game store stuff. 
Collectible cartoons, yeah, 

421
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:20,880
they, they, there's a whole 
circuit. 

422
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,040
There's a pro tournament and 
there's qualifiers and there's 

423
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,760
local tournaments. 
It gets pretty intense. 

424
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,720
And yeah, I will say that that 
is something that I have a the 

425
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,480
mind for in general, especially 
when I'm reading these types of 

426
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,840
novels, sort of logistics. 
I'm constantly thinking about 

427
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,600
where are all those horses 
pooping, all the people, They 

428
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,280
have this huge feast. 
Everyone eats now. 

429
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,040
You got to go to the bathroom. 
It's a thing that has to be 

430
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,560
accounted for. 
And it's not the most exciting, 

431
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,880
interesting thing necessarily to
read about. 

432
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,640
You want to hear about the night
and the war and the, you know, 

433
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,240
the adventurer, not the 
logistics, but logistics affect 

434
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,560
the movement of war and 
adventure and everything. 

435
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,520
And I appreciate that, George, I
think more than average does 

436
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,240
account for these things and it,
and it's also something I'm 

437
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,240
thinking a lot about the rules 
of this tournament. 

438
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,800
You know, that is also something
I think Georgia can't afford to.

439
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,200
I think he I think Nina might 
talk about it in her notes, but 

440
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,480
he likes Ivanhoe and it this 
format of the tournament and 

441
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,760
Ivanhoe he he wanted it to do 
that. 

442
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,200
And it's also I thought about 
it. 

443
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,280
I was reading it. 
She was like, this is dunk even 

444
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,160
says it at one point. 
This is a chance for him to be 

445
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,000
able to relatively easily, 
relatively easily call himself a

446
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,440
champion. 
Just has to win one tilt. 

447
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,680
You don't have to win the whole 
tournament, right? 

448
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,440
5 champions and as soon as you 
beat 1, you become a champion. 

449
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,040
It's like, hey, I could be a 
champion pretty easy in this 

450
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,960
tournament, so it's a good 
opportunity. 

451
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,440
Yeah, he's he's maybe 
underestimated how difficult 

452
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,360
we'll be, but he's not wrong 
that in terms of making a name 

453
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,040
for himself, it's a very, very 
rare opportunity. 

454
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,520
Like most of the time you need 
like a war or like something 

455
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,120
that's a lot more actual 
dangerous, you know, and 

456
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:56,160
obviously you can't just conjure
those up. 

457
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,680
So, yeah, you're right. 
Something you brought up last 

458
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,000
time is the Dunk sells himself 
short on his, his, his, his 

459
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,720
cleverness. 
You know, maybe he doesn't have 

460
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,760
a big IQ and he certainly 
doesn't have worldliness. 

461
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,560
But yeah, yeah, he's got some. 
He's got some. 

462
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,840
Fun. 
He gives himself credit. 

463
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,640
Yeah, he's not dumb. 
Right. 

464
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Yeah, He's not dumb. 
He's not thick as a castle wall.

465
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,680
Maybe there's some things he's 
thick about, but we're we're 

466
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,160
dynamic, all of us. 
Just being thick about one thing

467
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,760
doesn't mean you're thick about.
It I mean a lot of what Dunk is 

468
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,720
is just naive. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

469
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,360
Exactly. 
It's literally the word I was 

470
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,960
going to use. 
Yeah, he is naive and maybe even

471
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,160
and it's this word might sound 
more more negative than I mean 

472
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,000
it to be, but maybe a little 
ignorant, right? 

473
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,840
He just has a unlimited 
perspective of the world. 

474
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,960
But guess what? 
So does everyone, right? 

475
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,920
Less ignorant than some people 
you know. 

476
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:48,480
Let's read here real quick what 
George says about tournaments. 

477
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,800
This is the From the Suspect 
Martin collection on his 

478
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,200
tournament rules. 
It was not so much a question of

479
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,400
some king changing the rules as 
you venture as it was of the 

480
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,360
rules themselves being very 
variable Middle evil medieval 

481
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,760
tourneys were never governed by 
a single set of rules or rules 

482
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,440
makers like NCAA Football or 
Major League Baseball or even 

483
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:20,160
Shutter Boxing. 
In essence, every tourney had 

484
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,240
its own rules. 
The Lord or King who was staging

485
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,800
the event would usually choose 
the format of the tournament in 

486
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,080
the broadest sense and then 
appoint a quote master of the 

487
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,920
games to run the event and make 
all the fine print decisions. 

488
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,480
As to your questions regarding 
the participation or non 

489
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,040
participation of self, swords, 
Squires, free riders and the 

490
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,360
like, again I don't see that as 
the difference as being 

491
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:52,200
chronological so much as 
geographic. 

492
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,160
The Reach is the heart of the 
chivalric tradition in the Seven

493
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,920
Kingdoms, the place where 
knighthood is most universally 

494
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,520
esteemed, and therefore the 
place where the Master of the 

495
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,360
Games is most likely to devise 
and apply stringent rules in 

496
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,440
Dorne and Storms End. 
In the Riverlands and the Vale, 

497
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,760
things are perhaps a little less
strict, and north of the Neck, 

498
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,640
where the Old Gods still reign 
and Knights are rare, they make 

499
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,800
up their own rules as they go 
along. 

500
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,880
Personalities of the sponsoring 
Lords and their master at arms 

501
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,600
are another factor. 
Robert Baratheon was not a great

502
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,600
respecter of old traditions and 
he would hardly have won today. 

503
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,840
Knights Only tournament to honor
Ned, who was not a knight. 

504
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,760
Lord Ashford of Ashford, on the 
other hand, was trying to Curry 

505
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,480
favor with Baylor Brakespeare, 
the preeminent tourney knight of

506
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,120
his time. 
So there's another set of 

507
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,200
reasons why the tournament was 
the way it was. 

508
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,720
So this adds to what we were 
saying. 

509
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,360
The reach being the heart of of 
what's proper and knightly. 

510
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,080
They hold to those beliefs 
perhaps as much as anyone, or 

511
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,480
more so, as George said. 
But then we also have this 

512
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,200
notion of who he's trying to 
Curry favor with. 

513
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,880
Now, you brought this up as 
well, Sean, earlier. 

514
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,760
And it's super relevant because 
we know it's relevant here. 

515
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:08,880
We know it's part of the case 
here. 

516
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,600
Valar is young and they're 
trying to make him look good. 

517
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,960
That's part of why the two 
Kingsguard are like Nah it 

518
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,400
wouldn't be chivalrous for for 
us to compete against him yet we

519
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,440
have lots of examples of 
Kingsguard riding in tournaments

520
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,040
against Princess so definitely 
something is inconsistent here. 

521
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,040
Some specific examples. 
Arthur defeated Arthur, Dane 

522
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,000
defeated Rhaegar in the 
tournament to celebrate Prince 

523
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,040
Viserys birthright. 
Barris and Selmy beat him at 

524
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,560
Storm's End. 
Rhaegar and then Rhaegar also 

525
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,920
defeated Arthur Barrett's. 
Like I had a running battle 

526
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,400
between the three of them. 
Like who's best? 

527
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,040
Rhaegar, Arthur Bariston. 
And then we have Eric and Eric, 

528
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,920
the Kingsguard Knights. 
They fought alongside Damon 

529
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,440
Targaryen and apparently Duncan 
the Tall competed in a 

530
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:07,080
tournament alongside Duncan the 
Small later in life, so much 

531
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,760
later, clearly, because that's 
AG's son. 

532
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,280
So still right, We have Renly 
Rd. in tournaments against 

533
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,240
Jamie, right? 
We saw that Jamie Road and 

534
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,400
Barristan Rd. in the tournament,
the first tournament we ever see

535
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,400
in the Game of Thrones. 
What were they going to do, just

536
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,080
not have them If they were 
paired up against someone 

537
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,440
important? 
They were just like, no, you 

538
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,320
know, that's not going to 
happen. 

539
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,440
So I mean, there were no 
Princess in that tournament. 

540
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,120
Joffrey was too young, but you 
see that it's pretty normal for 

541
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,000
Kingsguard to compete and even 
to fight against Princess. 

542
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,600
So that does tell you something 
was something's different is 

543
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000
going on here and it's not 
necessarily super underhanded, 

544
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,280
but there's definitely like a we
want to impress the Prince's 

545
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,400
kind of deal here. 
Yeah, based on how we see the 

546
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,040
tournament and the third book 
go, it easily could have been 

547
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,400
that certain competitors were 
given some Look, you go 

548
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,760
challenge a Prince, we'll give 
you 100 gold Dragons. 

549
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,320
So we'll let you use you can 
hunt in the Kingswood for the 

550
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,640
next three months or something. 
They could have given him to 

551
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,280
encourage these people to 
challenge him. 

552
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,600
Or maybe, hey, we'll give you 
100 gold Dragons. 

553
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,280
I'm not you would challenge 
Lionel Prince. 

554
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,720
It could be that some of those 
other nights or maybe a 

555
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,640
combination. 
Maybe the Rhaegar had done 

556
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,280
enough to prove himself already,
like he was already a a a 

557
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,120
formidable competitor that it 
would have been a good match for

558
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:27,080
him to fight when the other 
nights where Valor maybe could 

559
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,080
not. 
There's no way he's going to 

560
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,240
beat this other people and they 
didn't want to set him up for a 

561
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,840
sure loss rather than a good 
battle, you know? 

562
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,880
But also he might have had or 
they might have had better 

563
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,480
personal relationships with each
other like Barris and the Bull 

564
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,280
and Rhaegar maybe had a good 
enough rapport with each other 

565
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,160
that they were OK competing. 
Where's Belar? 

566
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,480
Or maybe fairly knows these 
nights or. 

567
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,600
Rego might just be better. 
I mean, he's definitely, I think

568
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,520
a little bit older, but that's, 
that's going to be part of it 

569
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,560
too. 
You can see a lot of factors, a 

570
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,360
lot of potential reasons, but 
clearly the the the Kingsguard 

571
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,000
seemed to be giving and or he 
meant you can't really. 

572
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,720
OK, fine, that makes sense. 
You know what I mean. 

573
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,360
You can't argue against what? 
They're saying also from from 

574
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,720
Rhaegar's perspective, I wonder 
if he might have known and he he

575
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,160
says that quote where he says it
seems I must be a warrior. 

576
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,760
And if he knows that Kingsguard 
sometimes like throw matches to 

577
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,680
Princess, he might be like don't
do that. 

578
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,280
Yeah, you know, beat me for 
that. 

579
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,400
Said non Kingsguard would have 
no control there. 

580
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,400
And we at the time we we talked 
about Cersei's almost marriage 

581
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,720
to Rhaegar, that when Tywin 
presented that option to Aries, 

582
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,240
only to be rejected insultingly.
Remember when that happened? 

583
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:38,880
It was at a tournament at Lannis
Port where Cersei, who was only 

584
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,400
10 years old at the time, 
remembers how her all of her 

585
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:48,240
father's men lost to Rhaegar. 
And we're like, they wanted to 

586
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,840
announce this marriage at the 
end, maybe after Rhaegar is 

587
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,360
victorious, you know, like, 
yeah. 

588
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,800
So you should always be 
suspicious in these spots. 

589
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,320
I think you mentioned Ivanhoe. 
Yeah. 

590
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,520
Nina put the notes about Ivanhoe
in here. 

591
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,000
I had not even heard of this 
movie. 

592
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,120
And it's a book or a. 
Book. 

593
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,480
Maybe there's a movie, but it's 
a classic. 

594
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,760
Yeah, I guess. 
No, you're right, It's a book. 

595
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,920
It may have been filmed also, 
but. 

596
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Yeah, yeah, it's a book and a 
movie. 

597
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,040
There is a movie. 
Oh yeah, Yeah, an old movie and 

598
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,440
an even older book. 
Right on a 1819 novel about a 

599
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,280
12th century English knight. 
And the tournament is held at 

600
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,160
Ashby Zela Zoku Ashby Ashford. 
Yeah, of course there's an 

601
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,000
actual Ashford. 
I'll, I'll talk about that in a 

602
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,680
second. 
And then this was when Prince 

603
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,080
John, the, as in the, I guess 
the, the crappy King John of, of

604
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,440
legend, who was a real person. 
And there was 5 challengers. 

605
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,440
So it's kind of the same thing. 
You get to pick who you want to 

606
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,760
fight against. 
And then they're honoring a 

607
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,320
queen of love and beauty at the 
end when Ivanhoe wins disguised 

608
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,360
as a mystery night. 
So, you know, George borrowed 

609
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,680
some of those other things. 
He even said also from the SSA, 

610
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:53,880
I'm at Ashford. 
Instead of the single 

611
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,640
elimination, I went with your 
basic Ivanhoe Champions against 

612
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,160
challengers format, which suited
the story better. 

613
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,720
He wanted to have, he wanted 
this set up for Dunk to be able 

614
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,360
to risk all like that, like what
you were saying, like he wanted 

615
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,880
that opportunity to be there 
only for it to go another way. 

616
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,520
And he finishes this line by 
saying, and I confess, I've 

617
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,080
always loved the scene in 
Ivanhoe where the disinherited 

618
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,440
Knight rides down the line and 
knocks down all 5 Norman 

619
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,480
Shields. 
So it's like he challenges them 

620
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,200
all. 
I guess. 

621
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,240
I'm not sure I've I haven't read
the book so I don't know, but 

622
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,520
that sounds pretty cool. 
Another central theme of the 

623
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,920
book, by the way, was this idea 
that they really, truly believed

624
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,600
that the gods were acting 
through them. 

625
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,640
It's no one challenged a trial 
by combat. 

626
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,560
You know, if someone accused 
someone of something and you 

627
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,080
say, well, let's fight to death 
over it. 

628
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,720
If you won the fight to death, 
like, well, you're, you weren't 

629
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,320
knowing God chose you. 
You must have been telling the 

630
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,680
truth. 
They, they really genuinely had 

631
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,400
this faith in God and that he 
would direct the course of their

632
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,640
lives based on truth and 
justice, however silly and naive

633
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,080
that might be, however true it 
might be. 

634
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,080
I don't know. 
I should also point out, by the 

635
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,040
way, Ivanhoe I, before I take 
too much credit or you ask me 

636
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,240
too many questions, Ivanhoe is 
one of those books that got away

637
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,360
with not reading. 
Still pass the test. 

638
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,880
Nice, but you watch the film. 
Not every OK. 

639
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,680
You know the movie has Elizabeth
Taylor. 

640
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,160
Elizabeth Taylor. 
Yeah, she has purple eyes. 

641
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,280
Yeah, it was also written, by 
the way, like screenplayed by 

642
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,600
the guy who did Wizard of Oz. 
Oh nice, might have to check 

643
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,240
this out. 
You guys are selling this to me 

644
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,960
here. 
Everyone except Sean's T-shirt. 

645
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Also, it's kind of funny that 
most of the tournaments we've 

646
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,360
seen throughout A Song of Ice 
and Fire history, they have a 

647
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,680
lot. 
A lot of times they have pretty 

648
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,800
big championships prizes. 
Rather the Hands tournament. 

649
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,080
Massive money prize, right? 
Just obscenely. 

650
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,400
I think there is an extra digit 
added on to that, yeah. 

651
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,320
It just doesn't make sense. 
Right, Yeah, people, it's been 

652
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,800
said more than once the George 
and and coins he his he hasn't 

653
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,520
put as much thought into that as
just about anything else. 

654
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,360
So it's a it's a small weakness 
of his. 

655
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,760
It doesn't really affect the 
story, but we can laugh at it 

656
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,560
every once in a while because 
it's like, yeah, 40, that's a 

657
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,360
crazy amount of money. 
And then an guy blows it all on 

658
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,240
women and wine. 
Like what? 

659
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,400
How much women we're talking? 
Millions of dollars, like easy, 

660
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,520
like, wow. 
So anyway, it's it's not 

661
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,400
important, but yeah, it's kind 
of funny. 

662
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,720
And then a Dragon's egg for the 
White Walls prize, which of 

663
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,040
course that was set up. 
So that one you can maybe set 

664
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,200
aside given the circumstances. 
But here, what's the prize for 

665
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,080
this one? 
You get to name the Queen of 

666
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,240
Blood and beauty, but I think 
that was it. 

667
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,360
Yeah, what a racket, man. 
This guy's like, the prize is 

668
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,440
the honor of names. 
Like, what a surprise. 

669
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,080
Come on, yo. 
It's just like throwing all this

670
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,120
in this event but not offering 
any prize. 

671
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,720
It's like, yeah, everyone come 
spend your money at my castle 

672
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,920
and I'm going to get in good 
with the Princess and offer 

673
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,240
nothing. 
You know, it is worth noting 

674
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,320
though, again, like having 
thrown a lot of tournaments, 

675
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,480
even with no prize, there's 
still some resources. 

676
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,000
You're still. 
Like, yeah, you still got to 

677
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,760
like. 
You're throwing this feast, you 

678
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,640
know what I mean? 
You've got to have judges and 

679
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440
set up the canopies. 
You're still hiring lots of 

680
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,520
people. 
Yeah, it it costs a lot of money

681
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,240
to throw a party. 
Did. 

682
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,480
You have a lot of feasts and 
canopies at your tournaments, 

683
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Sean. 
We often would have, you know, 

684
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,480
pizza and you know, well, we, we
had treats, you know, prizes 

685
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,240
aside from like the winner or 
whatever. 

686
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,120
You know, it's a lot of hassle. 
It's a lot of work and hassle 

687
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,160
when you have suddenly have like
hundreds of people constantly 

688
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,560
like I need this, I need this, I
need this coming at you. 

689
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,520
Even if they're paying you for 
it, it's still hard to manage 

690
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,240
all that. 
Yeah, I mean, and some of them 

691
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,040
are, I don't want to say like 
kids are worse than adults 

692
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,400
because adults can an adult that
feels entitled is can be way 

693
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,360
worse than a kid. 
But you got to deal with both of

694
00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:00,520
those types now speaking, also 
Speaking of gatekeeping and, and

695
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,120
athletic events, I mean, we got 
that going on right now all the 

696
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,800
time and like the Olympics and 
things. 

697
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,080
I mean, that's not even new. 
Like it's happening this year, 

698
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,360
but it it happens every year. 
There's people excluded because 

699
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,400
of obscure rules about what 
makes you qualify as a certain 

700
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,440
gender or drugs no one's even 
heard of, you know, just really 

701
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,280
stringent restrictions and. 
I've never heard of what is it 

702
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,719
marijuana. 
Yeah, What is that? 

703
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,800
Marijuana Marriage. 
I don't even know how to 

704
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,000
pronounce it. 
Marriage. 

705
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,560
Marriage. 
You wanna it's it's a it's a 

706
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,120
drug that makes you want to get 
married. 

707
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,040
Ashford Castle A real There's a 
real Ashford Castle. 

708
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,600
It's in western Ireland and 
Galway on the border with Mayo. 

709
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,239
It was built in 12/28, initially
held by the House of Burke. 

710
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,080
The motto of House of Burke is 
familiar to you all, or or 

711
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,719
should be. 
Their motto is 1 King, 1 Faith, 

712
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,840
One Law, which is almost 
identical to what the Free folk 

713
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,560
are forced to say when Stannis 
lets them through the wall, when

714
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,080
they have to burn a piece of 
wearwood and swear. 

715
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,440
The line is 1 realm, one God, 
one king, cried Lady Melisandre.

716
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,960
It's really intense because they
all pick up the cry, the Queens 

717
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,240
man and George writes it as 
yelling and louder and louder 

718
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,080
and so one king, 1 faith, one 
law, one realm, one king, one 

719
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,800
God. 
It's pretty much the same thing.

720
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,080
One realm, one law, 1 faith, one
God, one king, one king. 

721
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,880
That's notable almost certainly 
where George got that influence 

722
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,000
the case. 
The castle changed hands a few 

723
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120
times over the centuries. 
Not many times one at one point 

724
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,800
it changed hands during the 
reign of Queen Elizabeth the 1st

725
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,800
and the Guinness family. 
As in the beer people. 

726
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,440
They owned it for a while. 
It's now a 5 star hotel like 

727
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,000
it's a lot of castles have 
become. 

728
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,360
John Ford directed the film The 
Quiet Man there at the castle 

729
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,000
with John Wayne and Maureen 
O'Hara and the show Rain. 

730
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaking of something more 
modern on The CW, that's had 

731
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,160
some episodes or scenes filmed 
there as well. 

732
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,240
In retrospect, I'm disappointed.
We were in Galway when we were 

733
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,960
in Ireland and we could have 
totally gone to this castle. 

734
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,360
Yeah, we did not go to Ashford 
Castle. 

735
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,440
You're right. 
Well, we'll just have to go back

736
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,440
to Ireland. 
I know. 

737
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,440
It is awfully nice there. 
And there's all those great 

738
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,440
castles. 
All right, so let's go back to 

739
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,320
the inn and talk about what's 
happening because of the 

740
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,400
tournament, right? 
The tournament has drawn all the

741
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,800
focus of the area to it. 
And it reminds me, like, the inn

742
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,000
is empty. 
And she's like, yeah, well, you 

743
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,040
know, no one's coming in to buy 
anything because everyone's over

744
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,080
there. 
It really reminds me of like 

745
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,080
when a presidential motorcade 
comes to town or, or a movie is 

746
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,320
shooting in your neighborhood 
and you just, you have nothing. 

747
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,640
There's nothing you can do about
it. 

748
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,240
They just everything shuts down.
You, you are faced with 

749
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,080
something much more powerful 
than you that's doing whatever 

750
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,800
it wants, that has its reasons. 
And you just got to live with 

751
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,880
it. 
And the only thing you can say 

752
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,560
is, well, it's going to be over 
pretty soon. 

753
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,920
And you know, this tournament 
probably, I mean, as it turns 

754
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,000
out, this tournament is over 
quicker than they expected 

755
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640
because of the death. 
But it wouldn't have lasted more

756
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,320
than, I don't know, a week or 
two. 

757
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,320
I don't really know exactly, but
not super long. 

758
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,840
But still that's it's a familiar
thing and it's one of the many 

759
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,320
things that makes the story 
relatable. 

760
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:15,600
We don't know what it's like to 
like have our place in the line 

761
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,760
of succession stolen from us, 
but we do know what it's like to

762
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080
be stuck in traffic or to have 
like some famous person in town 

763
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,480
that comes in and we all have to
live with that, right? 

764
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,960
Like, that's very familiar. 
I remember being stuck in 

765
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,160
traffic in Atlanta which is 
already bad enough for literally

766
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,200
3 out. 
Like not moving for three hours 

767
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,760
for both Obama and Trump. 
Just was 15 lanes of Hwy. 

768
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,800
We're just stopped. 
It's completely. 

769
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,040
Or when we had snow here and, 
and Atlanta just doesn't know 

770
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,600
what to do. 
We're not a city that knows how 

771
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,680
to handle snow. 
And the mayor of all people just

772
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,240
really made a terrible move. 
The mayor was like, all right, 

773
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,280
there's too much snow. 
No one should be working today. 

774
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,400
So there's like a big 
announcement. 

775
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,120
Mayor's like, go home, everyone.
So everyone goes home at the 

776
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,280
same time in the snow? 
Yeah. 

777
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,320
It's like she was trying to be 
smart about, she was trying to 

778
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,240
get ahead of it, 'cause the snow
was like coming, it was like 

779
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:13,880
forecast. 
It was starting to come down a 

780
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,440
little, but then everyone left 
at the same time. 

781
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,800
Traffic gridlocks and then the 
full. 

782
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,120
The snow got worse. 
Down on top of everyone on the 

783
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,400
streets, it was. 
A baby was born in one of these 

784
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,640
snowbound cars. 
Like, no one was injured or 

785
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,080
anything. 
And so it's just a good story 

786
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,720
now. 
But that probably was pretty 

787
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,760
intense and anxious for the 
family at the time. 

788
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,120
The kids got to have a great 
story to tell, though. 

789
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,480
I was like, like, yeah, I was 
born in a car in a snowstorm. 

790
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,880
Like, that's the real Jon Snow 
right there. 

791
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,160
Born in snow and traffic? 
Consider salt and snow. 

792
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,120
Snow and smog. 
This really touches on what you 

793
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,360
said before about logistics. 
Like in in some stories, the 

794
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,840
mayor would have told everyone 
to go home. 

795
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,640
I know this isn't a story, but 
if it was a story, the mayor 

796
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,600
could tell everyone to go home 
and they just do, they just go 

797
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,200
home. 
But the logistics of the 

798
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,800
scenario are like, no, the story
became a failure to properly 

799
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,960
handle the logistics. 
And that's why we have this 

800
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,320
story is because massive traffic
jam caused by an ill advised 

801
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,840
order anyway. 
But yeah, it just changes 

802
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,120
things. 
So these perspectives like 

803
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,720
getting back to the story, Dunk,
he's sitting down. 

804
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:21,800
He's like, he doesn't mind that 
there's nobody there. 

805
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,760
He can kind of stretch out and 
just eat all the food he wants 

806
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,360
and he's happy. 
Like remember, he he has a 

807
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,160
second or a fourth ale just 
because he can't. 

808
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,480
Meanwhile, when Tyrion gets on 
the Shy maid, which is a good 

809
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,520
comparison here because it's 
right when Tyrion meets Young 

810
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,440
Griff, who is our egg parallel. 
So this is this. 

811
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,160
This is happening almost the 
same moment. 

812
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,920
He's happy to be eating the the 
plain food that they've got on 

813
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,640
the ship because he is so sick 
of Illyrio's like ridiculously 

814
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,280
rich, overbearing food that just
knocks you out. 

815
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,760
You eat it and you're like, no, 
I'm tired. 

816
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,200
I need a nap after every meal. 
Which I got to say, Tyrion, he 

817
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,320
should be able to just. 
Ask for different foods. 

818
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,960
Don't have? 
To eat what he gives you, 

819
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:05,560
that's. 
True, it's. 

820
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,400
Like we eat a little less. 
Yeah, do. 

821
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,360
You have anything besides fancy 
stuffed snails and cooked, you 

822
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,480
know, roasted larks that you eat
whole? 

823
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,160
Like do you have any just? 
Two sticks and a whole 

824
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,680
cheesecake. 
I guess I have to eat it all. 

825
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,600
Can I just have like a plain 
piece of fish? 

826
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,720
Or I'm so tired of all this 
cheese. 

827
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,280
Just a just a bowl of rice, but 
yeah, yeah, I can buy a nap out 

828
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,520
of your cheesecake and breakfast
more. 

829
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,320
That's why Elyria got so big 
though. 

830
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,880
His chefs just kept making food 
and he didn't think he could 

831
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,320
refuse it. 
Well, that honeyed locust, 

832
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,600
that's. 
Right, These are very tasty. 

833
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,040
He's like, you only eat that 
when you've tried everything 

834
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:47,920
else, right? 
Like this sounds good. 

835
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,880
Egg wants to go with him and 
here we get back to dunks 

836
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,240
worthiness. 
He feels bad for leaving Egg 

837
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:01,600
behind, but it's a decision he 
makes because he doesn't think 

838
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,760
he's worthy. 
He he doesn't think this kid 

839
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,120
would do well with him. 
He's like, Nah, you're better 

840
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,760
off with somebody else. 
It's he's got a low opinion of 

841
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,560
himself. 
He's listened to what the world 

842
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,600
has told him. 
Even though he's got some pride,

843
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,240
he still accepted this as sort 
of the way things are. 

844
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,440
Well, how did you do you kind of
read that the scene similar to 

845
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,920
that? 
Is this kind of fit fill in with

846
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,640
his true knight or not sort of 
attitude? 

847
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,440
In certain ways like I, I, I 
think that's a reasonable take 

848
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,520
that you have there. 
But I also think there's another

849
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640
side to it that it aside from 
his own lack of confidence or 

850
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,640
whatever, he also knows this is 
just a tough life to choose in 

851
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:41,640
general. 
Good point. 

852
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,560
He's a big, tough dude. 
He's been living on the road. 

853
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,280
I can handle this. 
But look, kid, man, you're 

854
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,280
better off with the roof over 
your head. 

855
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,320
In his mind, you've got like a 
family. 

856
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,680
You got like a mom taking care 
of you. 

857
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,920
You know what I mean? 
Don't give that up and run off 

858
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,800
with me. 
You know, it's too tumultuous. 

859
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,680
You, you should. 
You'll have more stability as a 

860
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,800
stable boy. 
And then once he finds out who 

861
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,600
the kid really is and he sees 
these, the crappy behavior of 

862
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,920
these Princess, then he realizes
actually maybe this is what he 

863
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,960
needs. 
And he tells Makar so. 

864
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,200
I think he really kind of 
realizes it when Egg says his 

865
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,640
mom's dead. 
I think that's when he kind of 

866
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,760
accepted him, Like maybe it 
wasn't all the way, but that's 

867
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,960
when he lets Egg sleep next to 
him. 

868
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,520
That's a good point, when he 
realizes maybe what is it. 

869
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,200
You don't have so much to go 
back to after. 

870
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,520
Yeah, by the way, I I'm now 
going through this a fourth time

871
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,480
as I because I just want to 
refresh on this specific 

872
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,160
sections of the book that we're 
on now. 

873
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,720
You know, as we come up to this 
and I started to key in on 

874
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,680
something, especially with 
perspective of what we know is 

875
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,120
coming, right. 
Because after when when Dunk 

876
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,320
finds out who Egg is, he's kind 
of upset with disappointed in 

877
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,880
him for for having lied to him. 
And Egg basically says, I didn't

878
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,360
lie to you. 
And so paying attention here, 

879
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,920
he's like even says you've lied 
about your names. 

880
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:09,520
Like people really call me Egg. 
And when Dunk asks Egg, are you 

881
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,400
an orphan? 
He's like, are you? 

882
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,280
She doesn't say yes or no. 
And when he says and when he 

883
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,440
when Dunk acts about his mom, 
because he's just showing the 

884
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,400
innkeepers, his mom is like, my 
mom's dead. 

885
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,040
And so, so far, I haven't caught
Egg in a straight up lie yet, 

886
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:30,800
but but it was an interesting 
thought that I had was does Egg 

887
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,080
not realize that Dunk is 
assuming that the innkeeper is 

888
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,840
his mom? 
And even further, does the 

889
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,200
innkeeper, because the innkeeper
does talk about her boy? 

890
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,520
How long has Egg been there? 
How long is like really this 

891
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,640
stable boy, you know, like, or 
does she actually have a son? 

892
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,120
I think an Egg is just mistaking
identity here. 

893
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,680
I think that's how that's how I 
read it. 

894
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,560
I read it that she does have a 
son and because she says that he

895
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,160
run off again and she's like 
he's dunks like no, he's in 

896
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,480
there, but that's because it's 
egg and not because it's his 

897
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,160
herself. 
That's how I read it, but 

898
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,920
there's definitely no certainty 
for me. 

899
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,880
I'm not like this is definitely 
what happened. 

900
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,320
That's just how my 
interpretation. 

901
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,640
I don't, I don't have any like 
super strong evidence it's. 

902
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,840
Just one of those things I 
didn't even think twice about 

903
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,720
before, but now I'm like trying 
to add it up. 

904
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:16,880
But maybe it doesn't matter. 
But I think the innkeeper 

905
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,960
actually had assumptions 
separate from egg and there's 

906
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,360
just a little bit of 
miscommunication going on here. 

907
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,600
Yeah, because. 
I don't think she would call him

908
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,160
her boy, you know, like that. 
It's kind of weird to call Egg 

909
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,200
that. 
Like, you're right. 

910
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:28,360
They couldn't have been there 
that long. 

911
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,680
Like, the tournament just 
started. 

912
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,880
Deron's hanging out. 
He was trying to find a woman. 

913
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,480
They had been there a whole 
week. 

914
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,880
Yeah, you know, maybe, but. 
Longer than that, it's hard to. 

915
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,440
It's kind of hard to believe. 
Yeah, I mean it, you know, in a 

916
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,160
in the society like this, things
are very inexact in terms of 

917
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,440
time. 
And you can be off by, you can 

918
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,160
arrive for a tournament a whole 
week early because you don't 

919
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,280
know exactly when it's going to 
start. 

920
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,360
But yeah, it's still. 
Or exactly how long your journey

921
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,360
will take. 
Yeah. 

922
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,880
And maybe Deron's not paying any
attention to what he's doing and

923
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,000
he gets away with just. 
Well, I want to be a stable boy.

924
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,800
OK, Copper, go get some oats. 
I'm not sure but it's it's 

925
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,080
something I started thinking. 
About yeah, I do have a clear 

926
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,280
image of, you know, Egg and 
Deron go to the inn and what do 

927
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,000
you like? 
You got to entertain a kid 

928
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,200
somehow, OK. 
You want to be a stable boy for 

929
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,640
the week, Darren. 
Just like drinks, he's like go 

930
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,520
and do whatever. 
Like I don't care eggs. 

931
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,560
Like, yeah, I'm going to go hang
out with the horses because you 

932
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:25,080
are boring and pathetic. 
I do feel bad for Darren. 

933
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,600
Like we'll talk about him more 
later rather than in pieces. 

934
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,680
We'll talk about him all at 
once. 

935
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,600
But so let's let's talk about 
the arrival. 

936
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,600
Let's talk about his elbow now. 
His elbow. 

937
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,680
And you stoled her later. 
And then, yeah, we talked 

938
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,040
briefly about the banners last 
time, but let's talk a little 

939
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,480
more about take approach it from
a different angle here. 

940
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,920
And here's a little quote to get
it started. 

941
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,800
Three score pavilions had 
already risen on the grassy 

942
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,680
field. 
Some were small, some large, 

943
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:55,200
some square, some round, some of
sailcloth, some of linen, some 

944
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,200
of silk, but all were brightly 
colored, with long banners 

945
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,560
streaming from their center 
poles, brighter than a field of 

946
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,240
wildflowers, with rich Reds and 
sunny yellows, countless shades 

947
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:11,560
of green and blue, deep blacks 
and Grays and purples. 

948
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,480
I guess these are new, huh? 
They haven't been sitting in the

949
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:14,960
sun. 
A. 

950
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,480
Lot of them would be, I suppose.
Some of them maybe like they're 

951
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,240
trying to show off they had new 
ones made to just make an 

952
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:21,400
impression. 
You know, where we're going to 

953
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,600
the tournament. 
We got to like, look our best. 

954
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,120
You know. 
The Princess are going to be 

955
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,840
there, You know, there's all 
this stuff, right? 

956
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,240
So, yeah, you're, you're trying 
to look at and it's the heart of

957
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,360
shit or the reach, You know, 
they take knighthood seriously. 

958
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:32,960
They want to. 
Yeah. 

959
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,320
I think they're going to spend 
some money on, on appearances, I

960
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:36,840
think. 
And. 

961
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,520
Yeah. 
And it really is staggering, 

962
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,520
right? 
It's a really quite a sight for 

963
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,120
people who aren't used to seeing
bright colors. 

964
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,960
Again, I think I said this last 
time, it reminds us of Dantos. 

965
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,960
You know, another thought that I
had is that times change, right?

966
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,640
So it's hard any one moment to 
quite attribute this, But it's 

967
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:57,520
possible, if not likely not 
guaranteed, that the colors of 

968
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,000
banners might be based on the 
wealth of a house in the first 

969
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,800
place. 
Yes, right, because of certain 

970
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,680
colors more. 
Expensive for a house they're 

971
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,040
just going to have brown and 
Gray banners, but a fancy, 

972
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,840
prestigious, wealthy house 
they're going to have keep 

973
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,880
Crimson and bright blue or 
whatever, so. 

974
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,720
You're totally right. 
The Starks are real poor then. 

975
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,480
I mean, because certain colors 
come from certain plants and if 

976
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,120
you have those plants in your 
country, then those colors are 

977
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,200
cheaper. 
It's it is actually. 

978
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,720
For the money to import. 
Them, yes, you're totally right.

979
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:29,040
I mean, that is a great. 
That's a very another excellent 

980
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,520
point. 
Rooted in to conquer the places 

981
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,880
with those plants. 
Yeah, absolutely rooted in 

982
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,560
logistics. 
Like for example, the British 

983
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,520
colonial Empire, It's it's 
maritime empire of the, you 

984
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:44,080
know, not too distant past. 
They had a whole what to do 

985
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,000
about the dye Cuciniol, which is
red dye. 

986
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,120
It's little red beetles. 
Well, you crush them and you get

987
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,800
red dye. 
They eat cacti, a specific 

988
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,080
cacti. 
They they infest these cactuses,

989
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,840
these specific cactuses and then
you harvest them from that. 

990
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,440
England tried to plant these 
cacti and Australia and put 

991
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,400
coquinnial on them. 
Didn't work. 

992
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,520
Instead what they got was a 
bunch of cacti growing all over 

993
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,000
the place. 
All the coquinnial Dutch, they 

994
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,520
just started a cactus 
infestation, screwing up the 

995
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,680
local ecology, kind of like 
kudzu in, in the, you know, in 

996
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,920
several places in the US And it 
was a big money move. 

997
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,560
Like they were trying to make 
mad money from that because red 

998
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,160
dye is expensive and valuable. 
And if they instead of buying it

999
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,720
from the merchants, they could 
have their own source, then 

1000
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,360
they're making that much more 
money. 

1001
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,520
Purple dye. 
We talked about the ancient 

1002
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,120
supply of purple dye coming from
sea snails, smur ex snails, 

1003
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,720
which George borrowed for the 
Tirashi dyes. 

1004
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,520
So he expanded on that call on 
that whole idea. 

1005
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,800
And there's even a Tirashi 
person selling fancy armor here 

1006
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,680
at this tournament. 
So yes, you're totally right. 

1007
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:54,960
The The Witcher story Eternal 
Flame has a funny part about dye

1008
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,440
and how like one house 
overthrows another house and 

1009
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,280
this smart merchant no like 
immediately buys all the dye of 

1010
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,600
their house colors because he 
knows that that color is going 

1011
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,560
to become all they're going to 
have to buy all these uniforms 

1012
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,400
because they just took over. 
Like they're going to outfit 

1013
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,480
everybody in their colors like 
well, that dye is going to go up

1014
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,040
in price. 
Like this dude makes a ton of 

1015
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:17,760
money just by buying the dye 
right before the overthrow. 

1016
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,360
Right place, right time. 
Yep, Yep, right move. 

1017
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,680
Capital. 
Yeah, so, so that's pretty 

1018
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,520
important. 
And it's probably Westerosi 

1019
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,000
merchants doing things like 
that. 

1020
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,480
Certainly that's happening off 
page. 

1021
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,760
Like, it's just not what George 
chooses to write about. 

1022
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,960
Let's talk about specifics. 
Like, yeah, you you brought up 

1023
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,360
half some of these houses, like 
their colors and their their 

1024
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,080
sigils might be chosen based on 
what they have available. 

1025
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,440
That's a good point. 
Last time we talked about who's 

1026
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,080
not there. 
Let's real quick. 

1027
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,720
Who is there? 
We have how they're presented 

1028
00:49:45,720 --> 00:49:47,400
just as a bunch of names and 
banners. 

1029
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,440
But we have a sort of a list 
here to to give you a little 

1030
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,560
more understanding of what's 
going on. 

1031
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:54,320
There's only one house from the 
Vale. 

1032
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,600
That's House Harding. 
That's the this Harold Harding 

1033
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,280
guy that's very prominent in the
story. 

1034
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,400
Of course he does at the end, 
but Oh well. 

1035
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,720
And from the West, we had 
Lannister, Marbrand, and 

1036
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:05,080
Westerling. 
Not a lot, but big names. 

1037
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:06,600
But those and those are 
Lannister. 

1038
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,680
Banterman, Marbrand and 
Westerling are very directly 

1039
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,360
sworn to the Lannisters, unlike,
you know, the rest of the of the

1040
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,680
West. 
They're all sworn to the to 

1041
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,880
House Lannister. 
But these are direct vessels 

1042
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,280
like neighbors. 
Even so, the Reach has Tyrell, 

1043
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,680
Tarly, Fossaway, Mullandor, 
Hightower, Florence, Perrin, 

1044
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:25,560
Beesberry, and Riesling. 
There's perhaps a few others 

1045
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,000
that we just don't see, but 
that's the longest list. 

1046
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,640
Riverlands there's a lot as 
well. 

1047
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,760
Tully, Black, Bracken, 
Blackwood, Frey, Mallister and 

1048
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,200
Derry and that's most of the big
names. 

1049
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,080
There's no Harrenhal represented
there. 

1050
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,760
That's one notable omission, 
although the name is going to 

1051
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,520
come up a few times elsewhere, 
certainly indirectly, crown 

1052
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,480
lands is represented by Cargill 
and Stokewire. 

1053
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,360
So not much going on there. 
But also the the Princess. 

1054
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,360
So that's, that is actually kind
of a big deal if you include 

1055
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,800
them. 
And the Stormlands is, is House 

1056
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,920
Karen, Baratheon, Estremont, 
Dondarian Swan, Penrose and our 

1057
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,920
good friends at house Wild who 
we talked about last time. 

1058
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,480
So that's a pretty good list. 
The Stormlands, the Riverlands 

1059
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,600
and the Reach, by far the most 
represented and a lot of names 

1060
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,200
that are familiar and famous in 
current and song of ice and fire

1061
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,960
times. 
And even back then, a lot of 

1062
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,520
marcher houses and a lot of 
houses that fought against the 

1063
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,880
Dornish for time immemorial, 
especially House Karen and house

1064
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,000
Thundarian as well as house 
Swan. 

1065
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,880
That's that's three of the four 
main marcher houses right there.

1066
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,120
A lot of a lot of anti Dornish 
houses. 

1067
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,080
You would say to back up what we
had brought up before returning 

1068
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,600
to Javi's question about what 
other Black Fire stuff would be 

1069
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,280
here if the books had been 
written a little bit differently

1070
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,680
or if George had finished 
fleshing out the Black Fire by 

1071
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,920
the time this was done. 
This is a good example of things

1072
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,280
that he might have switched, 
which is that he gives us this 

1073
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,120
Bracken Blackwood feud popping 
up again, something that's 

1074
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,880
happened many, many times. 
I have a feeling that this would

1075
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,800
have been still will between 
black dragon red dragon 

1076
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,080
followers instead of Blackwood 
bracket. 

1077
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,880
Even though black and Brackwood 
has been a feud forever, it fits

1078
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,640
perfectly. 
I think this would have been 

1079
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:08,120
more pressing to portray, you 
know, on the page. 

1080
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,760
So that's a good a good example 
of something that I think would 

1081
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,920
have been slightly different 
bracket and Blackwood did fight 

1082
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,480
on opposite sides of the black 
fire rebellion as well. 

1083
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,320
So that could be in fact, it 
could have been both. 

1084
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,800
It could have, he could have 
used that as the sort of the, 

1085
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,040
the tip of the spear, the two 
houses that are still the most 

1086
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,160
upset with each other because 
they their grievance goes back 

1087
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,360
even farther than black fire 
stuff. 

1088
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,000
So I think that's an interesting
possibility. 

1089
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,200
You know, another group that 
isn't represented for pretty 

1090
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,320
much the same reasons, I think, 
is the Iron Man. 

1091
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:40,360
You know when. 
Yeah. 

1092
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,480
And islands are similarly don't 
really have Knights and they're 

1093
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,760
kind of removed geographically, 
Yeah. 

1094
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,920
They're not very popular. 
That's why I'm happy to not have

1095
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,360
to deal with their perspectives.
And of course, we talked about 

1096
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,880
the one representation of Dorne 
is the puppets, puppeteers, and 

1097
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,800
we'll come back to her shortly. 
From patron Delena Sands sends a

1098
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,240
comment that says there's a nice
parallel between Dunc's thoughts

1099
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:07,160
before the trial by 7 battle and
Barristan's eve of battle speech

1100
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,320
in his The Winds of Winter 
chapter. 

1101
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,240
Barristan thinks, what if you 
shame yourself? 

1102
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:14,280
You are actually, Barristan says
in his speech, what if you shame

1103
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,200
yourself? 
You wonder, What if you forget 

1104
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,600
all your training? 
And that's pretty much what Dunc

1105
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,880
thinks as the horn to start the 
trial sounds. 

1106
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,560
He thinks, I've forgotten, He 
thought wildly, I have forgotten

1107
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,400
all. 
I will shame myself. 

1108
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:34,720
I will lose everything and it's 
a first hand example of that 

1109
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,840
because Barristan's point of 
view, he's just so experienced. 

1110
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,440
I mean, this is a guy he's, he 
is scared, but he's also feeling

1111
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,360
alive and he knows what to do. 
He's done it so many times. 

1112
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,880
Plus he knows the men are 
following him. 

1113
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,040
He knows men are depending on 
him. 

1114
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,360
It's not quite the same for 
Dunk, where he feels like yes, 

1115
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,960
these men are fighting with him 
and obsessively for him, but he 

1116
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,680
feels but they're the superiors 
in his mind. 

1117
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,760
You can also imagine embarrassed
in saying that just to make them

1118
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,000
feel better. 
But no, it's really true. 

1119
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,560
Yeah, right. 
Even Duncan at all, this great, 

1120
00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:10,320
huge strong knight who goes on 
to do greater things, even he 

1121
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,560
still has this gut fear when the
moment comes, you know, yeah, 

1122
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,400
good point. 
But he also gets over it and 

1123
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,760
moves forward. 
This is also fun to point out, 

1124
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,240
because that's one Lord 
Commander to another. 

1125
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,560
In a sense, we've got Duncan the
Tall ends up being Lord 

1126
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,680
Commander, the Kingsguard. 
Barristan Selmy when we meet him

1127
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,200
is already Lord Commander, the 
Kingsguard, and there's only one

1128
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,680
Lord Commander between them, the
White Bull. 

1129
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,440
It went Duncan the White Bull 
and then Barristan Selmy, and 

1130
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,880
Barristan knew Dunc from having 
defeated him at the winter 

1131
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:42,640
tourney wear egg on the fifth 
night of him. 

1132
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,160
So that is pretty cool. 
Very, very cool though. 

1133
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:51,080
All these connections, Kevison 
says, in reference to my 

1134
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,120
splitting the difference, as it 
were, between how we can relate 

1135
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:59,440
to Dunk as a person, but maybe 
not when it comes to pulling 3 

1136
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,960
feet of Lance out of your side 
and keeping going. 

1137
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:05,400
Kevinson says Aziz can't relate 
to Dunk yanking a piece of Lance

1138
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,760
out of his side. 
You've clearly never played ice 

1139
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,960
hockey, Kevinson. 
You are correct. 

1140
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,320
I have never played ice hockey 
and I never will if that's 

1141
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,520
something that can happen. 
I didn't know that was a thing. 

1142
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,760
Yeah, you're that's a good way 
to keep me off the ice. 

1143
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,120
I am not eager to have that 
happen. 

1144
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,720
No, I've played broom ball, 
which is sort of like hockey, 

1145
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:31,000
but you just have shoes on the 
ice instead of skates and your 

1146
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,040
stick is just straight. 
It's just like a a broomstick 

1147
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:35,680
and it's a ball instead of a 
puck. 

1148
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,840
I can't believe I did that. 
It's so dangerous. 

1149
00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:41,320
There's so much falling and 
smashing and. 

1150
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,960
You are a real jabroni. 
You keep using this word 

1151
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:55,320
jabroni, and it's it's awesome. 
OK, so let's talk about the 

1152
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,120
pavilion pool. 
This is Dunk. 

1153
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:03,120
You know, he, he takes note of 
all the the fantastic banners 

1154
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,160
and then goes off to find a spot
away from all the banners, which

1155
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,240
is a really peculiar inversion. 
It's, it's, it's almost funny to

1156
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:13,520
think about. 
I'm going to take Nina's words 

1157
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:14,800
on it. 
She writes it well here. 

1158
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,480
Dunks reluctance to to camp on 
the tourney grounds with the 

1159
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,800
highborn Knights again speaks to
the novellas exploration of the 

1160
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,160
hedge knight as a liminal social
class. 

1161
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,480
I like using the word liminal 
here 'cause he's like separating

1162
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,600
himself where he's almost not 
there right. 

1163
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,120
They like where he's just like a
part of it, but he's not there 

1164
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:34,920
except when he's when he is. 
Dunk is ostensibly no different 

1165
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,960
in terms of his knighthood from 
any of the highborn Knights on 

1166
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,840
the turning grounds. 
They all have sur in front of 

1167
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,280
their names. 
They all had some other knight 

1168
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:46,640
bring the moon, but a highborn 
knight with wealth, much more 

1169
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,800
confident in status, much more 
confident in sort of belonging 

1170
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,520
to the brotherhood of of wealthy
people. 

1171
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,280
Like they they kind of protect 
their own. 

1172
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,040
They protect. 
They defend the their rights as 

1173
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,680
nobles to hold above the 
commoners and all that. 

1174
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,840
And we've talked many times 
about how being a Lord in a, in 

1175
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,600
a situation like this, in a, in 
a setting like this, which was 

1176
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,400
true in the real world, given 
the appropriate parallel times, 

1177
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,440
was almost like being a God or a
demigod. 

1178
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,040
You just had that much power and
you could do whatever you wanted

1179
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:18,680
with with almost little 
consequence. 

1180
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,640
And that is to a lesser extent 
true of, of the families of 

1181
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,480
these Lords and ladies. 
And that's what most of the 

1182
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,680
people here are. 
And so he doesn't want to be 

1183
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,320
mocked by them. 
He doesn't want to be looked 

1184
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:37,320
down on, yet he's trying to win 
their attention, trying to prove

1185
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,080
himself. 
So it's a really a bit of a 

1186
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,920
paradox that he wants to be 
recognized, wants to be seen, 

1187
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,360
yet he also has to camp far away
from them where they won't see 

1188
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,640
him. 
Yeah, it's interesting because 

1189
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,720
through his fighting prowess, he
has the ability to impress them.

1190
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,440
Yeah, he's got to like stay out 
of sight, out of mind until that

1191
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:01,640
moment comes. 
Right. 

1192
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:02,360
Good point. 
Yeah. 

1193
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,360
Also just this moment here where
he's thinking about how he 

1194
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,720
doesn't have a home or he's 
never had a home is a really, 

1195
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,000
that is a really good quote, one
of the, I think one of the 

1196
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:15,480
stronger, more like heartfelt 
quotes of the whole story. 

1197
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:16,800
And there's a few good ones 
here. 

1198
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,560
Duckett seen many in Market Town
during his journeys with the old

1199
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,160
man. 
This is prettier than most. 

1200
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,800
The whitewashed houses with 
their thatched roofs had an 

1201
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,200
inviting aspect to them when he 
was smaller. 

1202
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,440
Used to wonder what it would be 
like to live in such a place, to

1203
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,160
sleep every night with a roof 
over your head and wake every 

1204
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,040
morning with the same walls 
wrapped around you. 

1205
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,160
Maybe that I'll soon know. 
Yeah, right. 

1206
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,040
Maybe not. 
Maybe not what an aspiration, 

1207
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,800
though, Like he just wants to 
have a house, you know, like 

1208
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,280
that's pretty basic. 
It's not it's it's not some 

1209
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,360
grand ambition it, but it's very
understandable. 

1210
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,000
Like I just want to have be 
somewhat normal. 

1211
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,040
It reminds me a little bit of 
Ragnar, Ragnar Lothbrok from 

1212
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,720
Vikings, right? 
He, he kind of has to go be a 

1213
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,560
warrior, but in the end he's 
just doing it so he can settle 

1214
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,120
down with his family, right? 
That's true. 

1215
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,680
Just wants to make sure he and 
his people have good farmland. 

1216
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:08,920
I guess I have to like be a 
leader. 

1217
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,640
I have to go to war. 
But I don't really want to be 

1218
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:13,720
killing people. 
I want to be spending time with 

1219
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:15,160
my family. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1220
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,480
It's like it means to an end. 
It's like, well, I'll do 

1221
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,760
whatever it takes to get to this
goal, even if it means doing 

1222
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,600
awful stuff, But it's for that 
goal. 

1223
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,360
Yeah. 
And then, of course, power 

1224
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,520
corrupts. 
That interrupts the whole thing.

1225
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,200
But you know, that's a big part 
of this story, too. 

1226
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,480
Same little piece here, Rita 
pointed out a good quote. 

1227
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,840
Reluctantly, he turned his back 
on the turning grounds and laid 

1228
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,280
his horses into the trees. 
Rita says. 

1229
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:44,080
Sums up Dunk's whole journey. 
Yes, yes, good point. 

1230
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:45,920
Good call, Rita. 
Shout out Rita of the copper 

1231
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,000
Maine. 
So while he's hanging out at his

1232
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:57,120
pavilion, that's not a pavilion.
There's a very interesting quote

1233
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:01,280
here that kicks us off on 
several different discussion 

1234
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,520
points. 
Shout out to anime lover Nicole,

1235
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,840
long time supporter, a friend of
the podcast, for being one of 

1236
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:09,320
the first people to point this 
out here. 

1237
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,600
A couple of a couple of y'all 
noticed this, so I grabbed it 

1238
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,520
and we are going to delve into 
this. 

1239
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,040
Let's have this quote. 
He sat naked under the Elm tree 

1240
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,200
while he dried, enjoying the 
warmth of spring air on his skin

1241
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,920
as he watched a dragonfly move 
lazily among the reeds. 

1242
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,600
Why would they name it a 
dragonfly, he wondered. 

1243
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,880
Looks nothing like a dragon. 
I've also wondered that, yeah. 

1244
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:36,520
So there's in fact Silva and you
know me. 

1245
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,560
I went and looked up 
dragonflies. 

1246
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,960
So let's start with that. 
They've had many other names. 

1247
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,760
Dragonflies are one of the 
oldest insect species. 

1248
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,880
They've existed for millennia 
and that's that's actually 

1249
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,640
selling it short. 
I mean, millions and millions of

1250
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,040
years. 
What's funny about them and 

1251
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,560
thinking about the name 
Dragonfly is that most other 

1252
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:56,960
cultures don't have a name like 
that. 

1253
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,640
China does. 
China also has a dragonfly name 

1254
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,240
for them. 
And so that also has given a big

1255
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,160
impact to how they're viewed in 
the modern world. 

1256
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,600
But other places, these are of 
course translations have called 

1257
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:12,920
them things like Adder Bolt, 
Snake, Doctor, Devil's Riding, 

1258
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,760
Horse Devil's darning, Neater, 
and Horse Stinger. 

1259
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,680
Which is funny because they 
don't sting. 

1260
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,520
It's a perception that they do, 
but they don't actually. 

1261
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,000
They're shiny and metallic and 
extremely aggressive. 

1262
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,960
I read that they when a 
dragonfly attacks something, 

1263
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,480
they get it 95% of the time. 
They have an extremely high kill

1264
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,600
rate and they have they can fly 
like drones like they can fly 

1265
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,920
any direction up down backwards.
They can fly backwards. 

1266
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,720
They can fly left like not turn 
left and go that direction. 

1267
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,680
They can fly left. 
This will really blow your mind,

1268
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,160
y'all? 
It sounds like a drone, right? 

1269
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,800
What that that kind of movement 
and drones have been designed 

1270
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,160
like dragonflies. 
In fact, there are dragonfly 

1271
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,200
drones. 
There is technology. 

1272
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:02,760
This exists. 
This is a real thing. 

1273
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,880
There are actual living 
dragonflies that have been 

1274
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:10,360
outfitted with devices that 
attach to their brain and can 

1275
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,880
send we humans can send signals 
that cause them to change 

1276
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,480
direction and do things. 
And because they're just, 

1277
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,480
they're flying has evolved over 
these millennia. 

1278
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,320
It's just so incredible. 
They're the physics behind it 

1279
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:27,360
all and the way they can hover 
and move and it's they're 

1280
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,680
impressive, but they're also 
shiny and metallic. 

1281
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,280
And that's part of the the 
dragon thing, the aggression. 

1282
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,360
Minor tangent by the way, but 
hummingbirds are unique among 

1283
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:37,880
birds that they also fly like 
drums. 

1284
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:38,480
They can. 
Go. 

1285
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:40,640
Backwards to left, right and 
everything else. 

1286
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,320
They're yeah, they're really 
impressive too. 

1287
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:43,640
Talk. 
Nature creates some incredible 

1288
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:44,840
things. 
So it's like people look at the,

1289
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,360
the mythical Dragons and like 
nature, it's like, that's so 

1290
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,000
unrealistic. 
It's like maybe, but like nature

1291
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,440
has produced some incredible 
things. 

1292
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:53,400
Now. 
Moths, right? 

1293
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,400
Moths we, we talk about moths 
only living a day. 

1294
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:56,920
That's not really true. 
Moths don't live. 

1295
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,040
Moths live more than a day. 
It's just, it's that's a 

1296
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,920
misconception based on the fact 
that they have multiple life 

1297
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,120
stages and one of those some one
of those stages can be as short 

1298
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,480
as a day, but they have like 3 
life stages and those other ones

1299
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,400
are longer. 
But even the longest lived Moss 

1300
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,400
can only live like a year. 
Some of them only live like a 

1301
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,480
week, but dragonflies can live 
like 6 or 7 years, which fits 

1302
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:18,080
nicely with the up to 200 or 
even more year lifespan of of 

1303
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,560
Westerosi Dragons. 
This comment dragonflies among 

1304
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,960
the reeds. 
Oh, that's cool around the reeds

1305
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,440
like a Howlin Reed like the the 
the chronic men or or house 

1306
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:29,480
Reed. 
That's cool. 

1307
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,600
That could be a little something
something there. 

1308
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,160
Yeah, I mean, he goes towards 
the Riverlands. 

1309
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,720
He does. 
He goes N we know he goes N We 

1310
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,560
were just talking. 
We were just talking about old 

1311
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,880
man and him and all that. 
So you got to cross through the 

1312
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,680
neck to get there. 
The Reeds are going to be like, 

1313
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,080
man, this Prince is lazy. 
By the way, this is to be clear,

1314
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,320
because I don't think we've 
actually said it yet, but the 

1315
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,880
Prince of Dragonfly is that's 
Egg's son. 

1316
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,200
His first born. 
Yeah. 

1317
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,280
The one who marries debt. 
Jenny of old stones. 

1318
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,240
The one Jenny's song is written 
about. 

1319
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:58,440
So that's them. 
That's. 

1320
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:02,400
She dances with her ghosts, you 
know, and he is possibly one of 

1321
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,840
them. 
Maybe she survived Summerhall is

1322
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:07,680
is 1 theory. 
But everyone, you know, like 

1323
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,040
everyone she knew was killed. 
But we're not sure. 

1324
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,720
But it obviously, the song is 
very popular. 

1325
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,480
It's very heartfelt. 
And the show helped make it even

1326
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,520
bigger. 
So that's a wonderful connection

1327
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,480
is tragic as it is. 
Yeah. 

1328
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,160
So he's thinking about that. 
He's going to be named for 

1329
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:24,880
Duncan the Tall. 
Duncan the Small is Prince of 

1330
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,160
dragonflies. 
And one of the reason he's 

1331
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:29,320
Prince of dragonflies is because
he gives up his inheritance to 

1332
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,040
marry Jenny, who's a common 
girl. 

1333
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,720
And you know, the realm is not 
OK with that. 

1334
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,360
So he has to give up his his 
throne. 

1335
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,520
So he's not of the Dragons, he's
of the dragonflies. 

1336
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,200
Right, so it is. 
It is. 

1337
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:46,320
Sean Hagee says that Lady Gwynne
has a theory that Jenny of Old 

1338
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,720
Stones was a Krannig woman. 
Yeah, I I have felt the same way

1339
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,200
and I think, I think Lady Gwynne
is right. 

1340
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,360
There you go, the dragon among 
the wreaths. 

1341
01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:00,280
Yeah, it is a a very telling 
line, isn't it? 

1342
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:05,120
Of course, while talking about 
dragonflies and the death of 

1343
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:09,200
Dragons, non literal Dragons, 
this is tied into the tale of 

1344
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,080
the death of actual Dragons. 
We briefly touched on this 

1345
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:15,640
before, but we haven't talked 
about a lot of how it affects 

1346
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:17,800
the realm. 
So let's get deeper into the the

1347
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,200
weeds or the reeds here. 153 is 
when the last dragon died. 

1348
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,400
And here's a quote of from Dunk 
about seeing that dragon. 

1349
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,880
Dunk had heard the story half 
100 times. 

1350
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:31,760
Elster Orlin had been just a 
little boy when his grandfather 

1351
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,560
had taken him to King's Landing,
and how they had seen the last 

1352
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,200
dragon there the year before it 
died. 

1353
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,280
She'd been a green female, small
and stunted, her wings withered.

1354
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,120
None of her eggs had ever 
hatched. 

1355
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,120
Some say King Aegon poisoned 
her. 

1356
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,960
The old man would tell 3rd Aegon
that would be not King Darren's 

1357
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,800
father, but the one they named 
Dragon Bane or Aegon the 

1358
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,080
Unlucky. 
He was afraid of Dragons, for 

1359
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,880
he'd seen his uncle's. 
He'd seen his uncle's beast 

1360
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,120
devour his own mother. 
Summers had been shorter since 

1361
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,880
the last dragon died. 
Winters longer ruler. 

1362
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,640
So that's a huge amount of setup
in this chapter. 

1363
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:08,520
First of all, at this point in 
the story, you don't know Egg is

1364
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:13,800
another egg on that he's going 
to be the 5th egg on, so that's 

1365
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:15,680
a big deal. 
And that he's going to try to 

1366
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:21,240
bring the Dragons back, which of
course will get him killed. 

1367
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,920
Presumably. 
By the way, that reference to 

1368
01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:27,320
Egon the Unlucky, that is a huge
part of the Dance of the 

1369
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,560
Dragons, and we'll be seeing 
that on House of the Dragon. 

1370
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,960
Assuming that show gets a full 
run. 

1371
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,960
I would, I would guess it will, 
but you never know, I suppose. 

1372
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,240
But this last line also, I want 
to speak to that the summers 

1373
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,040
have been shorter since the last
dragon died and the winters 

1374
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,800
longer and crueler. 
So that's a really big deal that

1375
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,360
effects everyone, right? 
But it affects the common people

1376
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,880
more than the wealthy because 
they have more ability to, well,

1377
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,520
to use modern parlance, climate 
change doesn't affect them as 

1378
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:57,880
much, right? 
They can. 

1379
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:02,520
They've got the wealth to 
weather the storm, so to speak, 

1380
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:08,880
to hide indoors or whatever, to 
pay for an escape, whatever, 

1381
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,160
whatever terms you want to use. 
And that's really important here

1382
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,280
because that's going to going 
forward. 

1383
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,200
It's going to really, it's going
to cause the realm to be 

1384
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:20,080
agitated, right? 
I mean, think about that. 

1385
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:24,160
You got a whole realm of people 
that are just hot and angry 

1386
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:25,920
because they're hot. 
It's annoying, right? 

1387
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:27,560
You're sweating all the time. 
It's frustrating. 

1388
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,840
You can't live your life. 
I mean, that's rebellions start 

1389
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:37,520
in part because of people 
leaders tapping into discontent.

1390
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,560
And this discontent can take 
many forms. 

1391
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,040
And in this case, it's 
eventually going to be pointed 

1392
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,920
right at Bloodraven. 
They're going to say that guy is

1393
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,840
the reason for the summers being
this hot. 

1394
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,760
It's kind of ridiculous. 
But you've got a realm full of 

1395
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,720
illiterate people that don't 
know better, and they'll believe

1396
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,080
what they're told. 
And, well, a lot of people can 

1397
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,280
manipulate that. 
And hey, maybe Blood Raven is 

1398
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,240
responsible. 
We can't say it's not true. 

1399
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,120
We have no evidence one way or 
the other. 

1400
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:06,880
We can the. 
Gods will let us know. 

1401
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,760
That's right, here's another 
tale that I think is interesting

1402
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,920
with a connection point perhaps 
to the real, where we talk about

1403
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:16,479
real dragonflies. 
Now, when you saw those dragon 

1404
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,560
skulls on TVI don't know about 
you, but I've I thought of 

1405
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,040
Tyrannosaurus rexes. 
The skulls look pretty similar. 

1406
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:25,880
I mean, they're in fact designed
that way. 

1407
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,240
Dragons are sort of patterned 
off of dinosaurs. 

1408
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,359
In fact, there's ATV tropes 
page, Dinosaurs are Dragons. 

1409
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,439
There's a lot written on why 
people write Dragons as 

1410
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,520
dinosaurs. 
In fact, there's bringing China 

1411
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,680
up again. 
A lot of there's some Chinese 

1412
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:46,279
words that refer to dinosaurs as
Dragons and that it's kind of a 

1413
01:08:46,279 --> 01:08:49,600
misconception, but it's rooted 
in some truth about how they're 

1414
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,840
perceived in ancient times. 
I'm probably not explaining it 

1415
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,479
super well, but the point is 
that there's many cultural 

1416
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,120
associations in the real world 
of Dragons and dinosaurs. 

1417
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,560
I mean, hey, you're some older 
culture. 

1418
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:03,359
You dig up a giant skull of AT 
Rex. 

1419
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,040
Are you going to think dinosaur?
No, you've never heard of 

1420
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,960
dinosaur. 
You're just like, what the hell 

1421
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,040
is this? 
It's a giant skull with razor 

1422
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,200
teeth. 
Like, Oh my God, I'm glad this 

1423
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,399
isn't around anymore. 
Which brings me to mind. 

1424
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:18,040
I haven't specifically 
researched this, but I do assume

1425
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,399
that ancient cultures would have
unearthed some fossils. 

1426
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:22,600
Yeah. 
And they would have been all 

1427
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,520
around Earth, so all cultures 
would have found them. 

1428
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,399
And all cultures have these 
dragon myths, you know, So it 

1429
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:28,680
it, it adds up. 
Yeah, right. 

1430
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:29,760
Yeah, totally. 
You're right. 

1431
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,279
And so that brings me to my next
point. 

1432
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:34,760
What if T rex's put ourselves in
the real world? 

1433
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,960
Turn on your real world brain 
for a minute and think about 

1434
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,080
that. 
What if instead of T rex's dying

1435
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:47,000
out when they did, they died out
60 million ish years ago, long 

1436
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,640
ass time ago? 
What if they only died out 60 

1437
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,120
years ago? 
What if, like your granddad had 

1438
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,480
seen a living T Rex? 
That's what we've got here. 

1439
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,200
That's what we're faced with 
here. 

1440
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,600
There's Dragons died out 60 
years ago. 

1441
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,280
It's so hard to perceive, but so
interesting to me to think 

1442
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:06,800
about. 
Like, what kind of world would 

1443
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,600
it be if people had been living 
like, because that's an old 

1444
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:12,840
myth, right? 
Like dinosaurs and humans lived 

1445
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,720
alongside each other? 
Not really. 

1446
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:16,680
Not really. 
There was a few like still 

1447
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,120
around that you could say 
descended from dinosaurs. 

1448
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,760
But T Rex and humans? 
Not even close. 

1449
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,320
We're talking 10s of millions of
years apart. 

1450
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:27,120
I'm just going off that a little
bit. 

1451
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:31,480
I'm thinking in the modern 
world, like in the past 100 ish 

1452
01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:35,400
years things have changed a lot 
like just our civilization and 

1453
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:38,280
and infrastructure and 
technology has kind of ramped. 

1454
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,480
Up Our ability to get fossils 
out of the ground has changed. 

1455
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:43,400
Yeah, but imagine that same 
thought about dinosaurs having 

1456
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,680
gone away 60 years ago if we 
were in a time period 100 years.

1457
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:49,240
Ago you wouldn't, you wouldn't 
necessarily know that they're 

1458
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,040
gone, right? 
Well, you, you might, but I'm 

1459
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,280
thinking more because it might 
one thought I had was like, what

1460
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,680
if some species it now is near 
extinction, actually went 

1461
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,600
extinct like tigers or 
something, some big ferocious 

1462
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,720
monster. 
But even now I got a tiger. 

1463
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,240
They're like in zoos or far 
away. 

1464
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:05,800
They're in jungles. 
Not really that. 

1465
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:10,440
But 100 years ago, what if 
people at that time knew that 

1466
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,680
tigers had just gone extinct, 
right? 

1467
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,120
And it's some people had seen 
them and know they really were 

1468
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,200
cats as big as a person, You 
know, it would have been pretty 

1469
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,600
fantastic And, and it's scary to
think about and etcetera. 

1470
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:24,200
That's a good point, yeah. 
I mean, even going back to 

1471
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,720
dragonflies, there were 
dragonflies that were that had a

1472
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:28,920
30 inch wingspan back in the 
day. 

1473
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:30,880
And that's. 
Crazy to think how big some. 

1474
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:36,600
Goodness, that's like, Yikes. 
I always think that when I hear 

1475
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,360
about dodos. 
Oh yeah, the dodos. 

1476
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,080
Because dodos are interesting. 
They're a very unusual type of 

1477
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:42,840
bird. 
Yeah. 

1478
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,840
Relatively recently. 
Yeah, relatively, yeah. 

1479
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:51,040
Yeah, or or they. 
Weren't like man eating monsters

1480
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,960
that yeah. 
Exactly, which is kind of which 

1481
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,000
is kind of where in terms of 
wanting them to come back, I can

1482
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,840
relate more to wanting the dodo 
to come back than to wanting the

1483
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,080
dragon or the T Rex to come 
back. 

1484
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,160
Yes, Jurassic Park had it all 
wrong. 

1485
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,320
By the way, I don't know if you 
guys know this. 

1486
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,040
Jurassic Park was a documentary 
and it was filmed in real time. 

1487
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:17,560
So yeah. 
So we already know what happens 

1488
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,000
when you bring them back. 
Just watch that documentary. 

1489
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:25,440
You can see another take here on
the the Dragons, which leads us 

1490
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:30,320
into nicely leads us into what 
we talked about at the beginning

1491
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:33,720
with keeping in our eyes on 
clues for Summerhall and for 

1492
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,440
wildfire. 
So Arlen saw exhibited in 152. 

1493
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:41,440
That's Arlen, a penny tree. 
The last dragon Tyrion says the 

1494
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:43,800
last two Targaryen Dragons were 
quote, hatched on Dragonstone. 

1495
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:46,560
But the last dragon presumably 
died in King's Landing, where it

1496
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:47,840
was exhibited a year before its 
death. 

1497
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,280
So it's not clear whether this 
stunted little female was one of

1498
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,920
those two Dragonstone hatchlings
or not. 

1499
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:55,240
Probably is the Tyrion's quote 
seems to lean that way, but 

1500
01:12:55,480 --> 01:12:58,280
we're not certain. 
Likewise, it's unclear if that 

1501
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,680
last dragon hatched from a 
specific Targaryen's egg because

1502
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,240
we know that the Targaryen's are
given in this era and going back

1503
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,080
a little farther, though not all
the way back to Egg on the 

1504
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:09,600
Conqueror. 
This wasn't a this isn't a long 

1505
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:13,160
standing tradition unless it was
a revived tradition that was 

1506
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,840
gone for a while where they give
eggs to the young Targaryen. 

1507
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,800
That seems to be something that 
started near the early in the 

1508
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,480
Dance, I think before the Dance 
anyway. 

1509
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,400
Whether this was the an egg that
was given to a specific 

1510
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,960
Targaryen or just some random 
egg that they had lying around, 

1511
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:29,880
we're not sure. 
Probably one of the ones that 

1512
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,880
was given to somebody, but 
there's really no way to be 

1513
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,880
sure. 
So Deron the future, Deron the 

1514
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,240
first, meaning Deron the dragon,
the one who attacked Doran. 

1515
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,400
He was 10 when the last dragon 
died and then he was named 

1516
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,400
Prince of Dragonstone at some 
point in his father's reign. 

1517
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,400
So Nina suggests it's possible 
Deron the young dragon, the 10 

1518
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,320
year old, is living there since 
he was the Prince of Dragonstone

1519
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,320
and then that this stunted green
dragon hatched for him and then 

1520
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,240
died. 
And you know, the rest is 

1521
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,200
history. 
This could be foreshadowing for 

1522
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:01,720
Dunks eventual demise as young 
Arlen of Penetry saw the demise 

1523
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,520
of the original line of its 
Targaryen Dragons. 

1524
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:08,720
Dunk himself is going to see the
end of quite a few Dragons as a 

1525
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,520
result of trying to bring the 
Dragons back. 

1526
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,400
There's just so much book ending
and dot connecting from front to

1527
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:16,840
back here that it's really quite
impressive. 

1528
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:19,960
Haileen the pyromancer. 
Now why am I bringing Haileen 

1529
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,800
up? 
Oh, pardon, I was just 

1530
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,640
remembering something old wisdom
Pulitur told me once when I was 

1531
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:27,600
an acolyte. 
I'd asked him why some of our 

1532
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:31,080
spells seemed, well, not as 
effectual as the scrolls would 

1533
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,240
have us believe, and he said it 
was because magic had begun to 

1534
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:36,440
go out of the world the day the 
last dragon died. 

1535
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:40,240
So that line brought forward 
from Dunk. 

1536
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:41,760
That's why of course, why I 
brought it up. 

1537
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,120
A couple reasons why, but 
because it's the same thing, 

1538
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,040
Arlen said. 
And or at least is that he's 

1539
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,080
Dunk thinks while thinking about
Arlen. 

1540
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:55,480
So Tyrion goes on to say, yeah, 
because Haileen is saying, well,

1541
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:57,040
you know, our spells are working
better right now. 

1542
01:14:57,040 --> 01:14:58,880
So do you know of any Dragons in
the world? 

1543
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:00,760
And Tyrion's like, Nope, I don't
know of any Dragons in the 

1544
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,680
world, but Danny's have just 
been hatched. 

1545
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:04,320
That's really important to point
out here. 

1546
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:07,840
OK, once again, I want to remind
you guys, when this was written,

1547
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:10,000
this book came out a month 
before this is the structure 

1548
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,280
came out a month before Clash of
Kings. 

1549
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:12,840
So he was writing them in 
tandem. 

1550
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,480
So all this stuff about 
wildfire, which doesn't appear 

1551
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:18,280
until Clash of Kings. 
Keep in mind this is really 

1552
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,240
important, folks. 
Wildfire is not mentioned in 

1553
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,560
Book 1 at all. 
It's like he invented it in 

1554
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,320
between the two books and put it
into and thought about it for 

1555
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:28,400
the hedge knife. 
If I invented, you mean 

1556
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:30,920
discovered? 
Right, discovered, discovered. 

1557
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:33,680
This is this is a pretty big 
deal, right? 

1558
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:35,880
Aries? 
There's all these like vague 

1559
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,840
things about Aries about how 
what he did, what he didn't do, 

1560
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:43,240
but they never say he used 
wildfire. 

1561
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:45,280
They just said he did something 
unthinkable. 

1562
01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:50,240
Catlin doesn't even know Bran 
thinks Ricard Stark was 

1563
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:52,160
beheaded. 
He says that he was like, yeah 

1564
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,680
my, my grandfather was beheaded 
because Ned didn't want to tell 

1565
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:55,680
them the truth. 
How awful it is. 

1566
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:59,960
It's not till Catelyn goes to 
face Jamie in the dungeons of 

1567
01:15:59,960 --> 01:16:04,480
River Run when she eventually 
sets him free, which kicks off 

1568
01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:06,080
is the Storm of Swords arc. 
But this is still the end of 

1569
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:07,440
Clash of Kings. 
Or near the end of Clash of 

1570
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,920
Kings. 
That's when she finds out what 

1571
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,520
really happened. 
She finds out what Aries did 

1572
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:16,120
with the whole strangulation and
burning of Rickard. 

1573
01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:18,680
Even their wildfire isn't 
mentioned, though it is said the

1574
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:22,720
pyromancers built the flame that
killed Rickard. 

1575
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:26,040
Piece it all together. 
George isn't coming up with all 

1576
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,680
this around the same time, so it
makes even more sense that these

1577
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,120
concepts are delivered side by 
side almost, even though the 

1578
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:35,160
books are apart, Even though 
some people probably didn't read

1579
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,160
Hedge Night till years after 
Clash of Kings, or maybe didn't 

1580
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,840
read it till recently, you got 
to keep that in mind. 

1581
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,480
They're both written side by 
side and so these themes are 

1582
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,080
really well connected. 
It's almost like when we're 

1583
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,800
reading one of the main novels 
and you find a theme that 

1584
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,120
doesn't really appear in the 
current chapter, yet it's 

1585
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:54,200
discussed. 
It's meant to reference other 

1586
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:56,280
chapters. 
George loves that kind of 

1587
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:00,160
oblique storytelling. 
We brings up lore or literary 

1588
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,960
themes in one chapter to set 
them up in someone else's POV or

1589
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,560
multiple other POVSI think 
that's what's going on here with

1590
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:08,880
the wildfire setup it's being. 
Yeah, that's the thing that 

1591
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:13,400
happens in literature just in 
general, that I think we should 

1592
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:14,320
all be aware of. 
I. 

1593
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,840
You're right, You're right. 
I say that I put it that way 

1594
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,480
because it's reading A Song of 
Ice and Fire is what's taught me

1595
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:20,960
to look for those things. 
But you're totally right. 

1596
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,000
Yeah, anything I read now, I 
definitely think about that a 

1597
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,080
little more. 
Yeah, I'm a much better reader 

1598
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,160
than I was before this podcast. 
I'm so much better. 

1599
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:31,800
Like knowing what to look for. 
And I'm sure there's so much 

1600
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,160
more I have to learn about being
a better reader. 

1601
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,920
But yeah, it's George has taught
us much. 

1602
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,280
I think a lot of people have a 
lot to learn about being better 

1603
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:42,560
writers from this. 
Very true, very true, my friend,

1604
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,600
and that's a good point. 
So I think that's super 

1605
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,400
interesting that we have all the
set up, but it goes beyond this.

1606
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,840
The magic had begun to go out of
the world the day the last 

1607
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:55,000
dragon died yet yet clearly not 
all of it, right? 

1608
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:57,800
There's clearly some Darren's 
having dragon dreams right here 

1609
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:01,760
in this story, right? 
Three stories from now or two 

1610
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,120
stories from now, whatever blood
Raven glamorous. 

1611
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,840
That's that's sorcery. 
That's not some trick of the 

1612
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:09,440
eye. 
I mean, it does fool the eye, 

1613
01:18:09,440 --> 01:18:12,200
but it's actual magic. 
And then he joins the tree at 

1614
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:13,480
some point. 
And of course there's there's 

1615
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:15,880
got to be green seeing and 
there's the children still 

1616
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:17,440
exist. 
There's still some magic out 

1617
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:19,560
there. 
So I suppose we could say it 

1618
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,240
waned rather than die and now 
it's waxing again. 

1619
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:24,760
The comment was like the sign of
it waxing. 

1620
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:29,400
That may be in the magical 
forces, the tides of magic, for 

1621
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,240
lack of a better word, is what 
enabled in part the Dragons to 

1622
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:33,600
come back and all these other 
things. 

1623
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:39,520
How do you see this is that? 
A few thoughts 1 Is that it? 

1624
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:41,760
It's maybe it's kind of 
semantic, but how much 

1625
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,200
difference is there between 
magic and the power of the gods?

1626
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:49,920
Yeah, who knows? 
And, and whatever difference 

1627
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,760
there might be between those, 
how much difference in there is 

1628
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:58,040
there in the, in the mind of 
these speakers, Harlan or this, 

1629
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:02,720
this Hollister or who, who, 
whoever else, you know, that 

1630
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:06,000
would, that they may use the 
word magic and just mean more 

1631
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,240
generically anything kind of 
fantastic. 

1632
01:19:08,480 --> 01:19:13,560
But some people might mean like 
this particular type of 

1633
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,560
fantastic thing, which is 
different from when a God does 

1634
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:19,720
something. 
So maybe these fortuitous dreams

1635
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,600
don't count as magic. 
Or, you know, you could see if 

1636
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:23,560
you're spinning it a lot of. 
Yeah. 

1637
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,240
Yeah, In other words, you could 
be like glamorous count as 

1638
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:30,640
magic, but dreams are are 
mystical, not magical. 

1639
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:35,800
Yeah, but one way or the other, 
it does seem like the world at 

1640
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:40,160
the time of Dunk that George is 
presenting us is free of magic 

1641
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:42,040
now. 
For all we know, over in Essos, 

1642
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,680
crazy stuff has happened, and 
maybe the red priestesses are 

1643
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,880
doing sacrifices and speaking 
through candles and having 

1644
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,000
revisions of the future, but 
maybe not. 

1645
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,800
Maybe they're not. 
Maybe they're all just praying 

1646
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,760
to their God and not witnessing 
anything special. 

1647
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:02,240
But I generally prefer a lower 
amount of magical fantasy. 

1648
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:07,040
I think it makes it easier for 
me to absorb and predict and 

1649
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:08,240
relate. 
Relate. 

1650
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:10,240
Yeah, I think relating 
especially is a big one, yeah. 

1651
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:14,080
And I appreciate that George has
minimized it so much. 

1652
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:18,440
And it gets dangerous when you 
start to do things like have 

1653
01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:20,360
Arya take on someone else's 
face. 

1654
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,360
Well, now you have to suspect 
almost every character could 

1655
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:26,320
just be someone faceless man. 
You know, like it's really. 

1656
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:29,960
Easy, you're right, the theories
in this in this fandom do got to

1657
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:31,800
get crazy with people being 
other people. 

1658
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,200
And I feel like George is 
careful to limit that. 

1659
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,880
But once you introduce it, it's 
impossible to completely ignore.

1660
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,080
So. 
And that's why I prefer for it 

1661
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,000
to not be there as much. 
And, and maybe at least subtly 

1662
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:47,000
is why I like the dunk. 
I mean, don't get me wrong, I 

1663
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,360
obviously love the whole Song of
Ice and Fire, but but I love 

1664
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,520
Dunk. 
I love the Sword of the Seven 

1665
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,120
Kingdoms as much. 
It's right up there for me. 

1666
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:58,080
And I probably could say this 10
times an episode. 

1667
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,960
I can't believe they're not 
making some kind of media, some 

1668
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:03,600
kind of TV show. 
They are. 

1669
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,960
They are, they are. 
The plan is there not. 

1670
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:07,760
Fast. 
They haven't. 

1671
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:08,920
I can't believe they haven't 
already done. 

1672
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:13,520
They haven't already dunked it. 
Yeah, it's just so ripe. 

1673
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,800
It's just so beautiful. 
I just can't believe it's been 

1674
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:17,480
overlooked. 
I mean. 

1675
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,440
In terms of magic though, I 
think one of the more striking 

1676
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:24,760
bits of magic in the whole 
series for me is in the mystery 

1677
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,800
night with Bloodraven with his 
glamour. 

1678
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:30,000
I was. 
It's one of the most memorable 

1679
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:35,200
honestly, is the glamours, I 
suppose in general because I 

1680
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,520
don't really understand it. 
Yeah. 

1681
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,240
But we'll have plenty of fun 
talking about it at the time 

1682
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,320
because, yeah, there's there's 
so much we can draw a connection

1683
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:46,600
to with, with Melisandre and 
things that we expect might be 

1684
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:48,760
coming that will be that will be
fun. 

1685
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,040
Blood Raven is quite a 
character. 

1686
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:52,680
We've done so many episodes on 
him and I don't feel like it's 

1687
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,200
fully covered. 
And it's really interesting too,

1688
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:56,960
Sean. 
Like one of the things is this, 

1689
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:58,600
this fits in with what you were 
saying before. 

1690
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,640
Like I think someone could 
predict that you would prefer 

1691
01:22:02,640 --> 01:22:05,440
lower magic based on your 
comments about wanting logistics

1692
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:09,400
more and how you you prefer the 
stories to be rooted in reality 

1693
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:11,160
more. 
And that I I'm with you on that 

1694
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,560
a lot of the way. 
And it's, and Dunk is too. 

1695
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:16,080
I mean, who does Dunk have? 
What does Dunk have time for 

1696
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:17,280
this? 
Dunk can't be thinking about the

1697
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,680
mysteries of existence and the 
nature of Dragons or sorcery. 

1698
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,200
The dude's just trying to eat. 
He doesn't have a roof over his 

1699
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:24,560
head. 
Like, who has time for that? 

1700
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,680
When you, when you, when you 
have a rope belt, I mean, you, 

1701
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:29,920
you can't be worried about other
stuff. 

1702
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:31,680
Like you got to he's got to make
a living. 

1703
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,360
He's what? 
He doesn't even know how old he 

1704
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,920
is. 
He literally doesn't know his 

1705
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:37,960
own name. 
Yeah. 

1706
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:41,120
Also, I just want to say Dunk is
young. 

1707
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:44,440
He's maybe 17. 
He's 16 or 17. 

1708
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:48,200
I can't bring this up enough. 
People don't realize that he's a

1709
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:49,320
child. 
Yeah, he is. 

1710
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:51,120
Not he. 
It's thrown off because he's 

1711
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:53,520
big, because he's around someone
even younger than him. 

1712
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,840
Yeah, he's exactly. 
He has to be the mentor, not the

1713
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:58,320
mentee. 
Yeah. 

1714
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,600
And he's been thrust into the 
role of an adult also. 

1715
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,000
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1716
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:05,720
Totally, yeah. 
For himself and for for EG. 

1717
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:08,640
Yeah. 
And it's interesting to think 

1718
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:12,480
about how it's harder to live 
outdoors because of these, the 

1719
01:23:12,480 --> 01:23:15,040
weather changing, and how. 
So he looks real rough and old 

1720
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:16,520
is what you're saying? 
Yeah. 

1721
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,240
Haggard, the old man, You know, 
by the way, when I was 16, if 

1722
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:25,320
someone had told me I was naive 
or ignorant or like, what's for 

1723
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:26,360
you? 
You don't know they're. 

1724
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,320
Called you a child I. 
Was so dumb when I was 16. 

1725
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:31,280
We all knew nothing. 
Yeah, we're we were all Johnson.

1726
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:34,160
I mean, we still are. 
But that's the only difference 

1727
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,320
really is now we know it. 
Yeah. 

1728
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:39,320
We still don't know anything. 
But we do know that we know 

1729
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:40,560
nothing. 
That's the one thing we've 

1730
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:44,720
learned. 
Let's briefly discuss the 

1731
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,120
meeting of of Dunk's first 
encounter with Tanzel. 

1732
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,320
Of course, we'll have plenty 
more to say about her, but we'll

1733
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,000
start off with this great 
observation. 

1734
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,480
This actually happened last 
episode, but we didn't have time

1735
01:23:54,480 --> 01:23:57,280
to cover it, so let's talk about
it now. 

1736
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:02,520
John Hagee, Great observation. 
Yeah, John Hagee brought up that

1737
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,120
this quote. 
The puppeteer who worked the 

1738
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:09,360
dragon was good to watch too. 
A tall drink of water with the 

1739
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,480
olive skin and black hair of 
Dorm. 

1740
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:16,000
And then he says house drink 
water is a landed nightly house 

1741
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,000
in Dorn. 
Could Garris be a descendant of 

1742
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,240
Dunkin Tansel or could Dunk have
knighted the founder of House 

1743
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:25,160
Drink Water? 
And I think that's a really 

1744
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,400
interesting idea. 
And so I looked into it. 

1745
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:31,720
I did some searching and and 
well one Garris is specifically 

1746
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,160
noted to be tall. 
He's a big dude. 

1747
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:38,080
But this is the more striking 
part to me, which is that Dunk 

1748
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:43,280
is described as having a thick 
mass of sun streaked hair and 

1749
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,680
Garris is described as having 
sandy sun streaked hair. 

1750
01:24:47,480 --> 01:24:50,200
Sun streaked is pretty specific.
Yeah, it's pretty specific. 

1751
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:54,440
It's not a lot to go on, but I 
like the idea that Duncan Tansel

1752
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:56,840
had kits. 
Tall drink of water also is 

1753
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,520
sticks out like a sore thumb 
because that sounds like a real 

1754
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:04,560
world idiom, not a a tall drink 
of water it's. 

1755
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:07,960
Strange, a tall drink of water 
has got to be a real compliment 

1756
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:12,520
in Dorn. 
Yeah, I also, I didn't make any 

1757
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,000
of these connections to drink 
water, but when I saw John 

1758
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,800
Hagee's, no, I was like, oh, 
it's pretty good. 

1759
01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:19,840
But it did. 
I knew the note is that because 

1760
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,560
I remember that motor did stand 
out so much, a tall drink of 

1761
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,000
water. 
I remember thinking what an 

1762
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:26,320
interesting description. 
He even pondered it a little 

1763
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:27,520
bit. 
I was like, it's like 

1764
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:30,680
refreshing, you know, 
rejuvenating, you know, 

1765
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:33,120
delightful. 
I got the words other similar 

1766
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:37,000
words that it invokes thoughts 
and invokes and that, but the 

1767
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:41,080
idea I wonder if he came up with
drink water and then just 

1768
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,080
decided to describe her as that 
or remember that he used tall 

1769
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,120
drink of water and decided to 
name them drink water. 

1770
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,120
Like just what's so bad to get 
in George's mind. 

1771
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:52,120
I I want him to watch this 
podcast and then give us the 

1772
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,600
answer. 
Maybe one day he'll give a lot 

1773
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,160
of these secrets away. 
Who knows? 

1774
01:25:57,160 --> 01:25:58,000
Who knows? 
Maybe. 

1775
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,640
Maybe. 
But yeah, that's super. 

1776
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:01,280
That's super neat. 
I love connecting that. dot. 

1777
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:03,040
Good job, John Hagee. 
Excellent catch. 

1778
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:06,080
You know, real quick. 
Sorry, another tangent went to 

1779
01:26:06,280 --> 01:26:11,040
Seattle and the the Museum of 
Pop Art there and they've got 

1780
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,680
all kinds of stuff, fantasy, 
science fiction, horror, video 

1781
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:17,280
games, Disney, but they and and 
it like Seattle stuff, all the 

1782
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:20,120
grunge music, Jimi Hendrix's 
from there. 

1783
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:23,520
I didn't realize that by the 
way, but Pearl Jam just gave 

1784
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:25,480
them all their stuff. 
They just have like all their 

1785
01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:29,000
notebooks, all their lyric 
writing and all their set lists.

1786
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:32,520
It's all just laid out there and
and I just remember thinking how

1787
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,880
much, you know, they had some of
it where you could just like 

1788
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,880
read the pages, right, But then 
they had looks like dozens of 

1789
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:40,400
other notebooks that were just 
sealed in cases what you 

1790
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,040
couldn't see, but you just 
imagine pouring through that and

1791
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:44,960
seeing their the writing 
process. 

1792
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:50,520
Yes, actually, I have something 
to tell you, which is that a 

1793
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:54,880
bunch of Georgia's stuff is 
stored at Texas A&M University, 

1794
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,400
where you can see a manuscript 
there that people have looked at

1795
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,040
that has interesting 
information, but he also has an 

1796
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:05,240
agreement to give them his notes
and a bunch of that stuff. 

1797
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:07,040
He doesn't allow copying of it 
either, right? 

1798
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,880
So he doesn't allow copying. 
Of it, no, he you can't copy. 

1799
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,880
I don't believe that's allowed 
at all in this text and a this 

1800
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:17,240
Texas A&M section archive live. 
Yeah, I don't think that I I 

1801
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,760
don't think he's unique in that.
I think it's meant to give you a

1802
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:23,000
behind the scenes look. 
So it's like you, but if you, if

1803
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,160
you want, you have to go there 
and be like a, a real 

1804
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:26,680
researcher. 
You know you can't just like 

1805
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:29,080
give me the, give me the Cliff 
notes, give me the the link. 

1806
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:31,440
Yeah. 
So, yeah, basically he has said 

1807
01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:34,600
there's, there's no doubt that 
we will see these notes in this 

1808
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,360
process, which is why he was so 
upset because they're, you know,

1809
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:42,840
we have gotten stuff that wasn't
meant to get out, like the 1993 

1810
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:46,200
letter where he kind of just 
laid out some ideas because that

1811
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:50,800
he had, you know, his pitch. 
But that was never meant to see 

1812
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,800
the light of day to anyone else.
So he was actually quite upset, 

1813
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:57,040
as it turned out, about that. 
Yeah, unfortunately, yeah, 

1814
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,640
that's, I remember that as well.
There's so many little, just 

1815
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:03,640
like 3 line pieces of set up in 
this story that you could spend 

1816
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:07,200
hours on with each one of them. 
But a lot of them relate to each

1817
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:09,440
other, so we're trying to tackle
them in batches. 

1818
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,120
Let's talk about his first brush
with Aryan and the Kingsguard. 

1819
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:14,960
It's neat. 
The Dunk mistakes Egg for a 

1820
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,960
stable hand and then Aryan, his 
brother, mistakes Dunk for a 

1821
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:21,480
stable hand, which is kind of 
fun, like a little bit more 

1822
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:26,080
bookending and and paralleling. 
I suppose Aryan really comes off

1823
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,040
the way it's the setup you would
expect for someone that's just a

1824
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,840
total jerk, but he's way worse 
than you might even think. 

1825
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:35,440
Based on that, he comes off as 
just haughty and kind of 

1826
01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:39,440
arrogant, which by itself that's
annoying, but that doesn't tell 

1827
01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:43,000
you that he's also a like 
psychopath or whatever the 

1828
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,880
appropriate diagnosis is. 
A man who loves violence. 

1829
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:51,440
But it's neat as well that after
he meets Baylor and realizes who

1830
01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:53,800
Baylor is he he's also 
recognized this one. 

1831
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,400
He doesn't know it's Aryan, he 
just knows it must be the 

1832
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:58,280
Targaryen given the banners and 
the hair color. 

1833
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:03,440
So he's met 4 Targaryens in 
about I don't know the 1st 10 

1834
01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:05,560
pages but only knows the two of 
them are. 

1835
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:09,440
He doesn't know Deron is 1 and 
he doesn't know Egg is 1. 

1836
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:11,640
So that's kind of funny. 
Just goes to show how many there

1837
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,440
are around and they joke about 
how the King's not there. 

1838
01:29:14,440 --> 01:29:16,360
He's like I've got enough 
problems to deal with already. 

1839
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:18,480
Doesn't even realize how many 
Princess are there. 

1840
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:20,720
But let's talk about these two 
Kingsguard. 

1841
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:24,080
This is something that's a 
really different reaction. 

1842
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,720
Everywhere Dung goes, people are
like turning their nose up at 

1843
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:29,880
him, giving him the side eye, 
mistrusting him, looking down on

1844
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:32,800
him, which makes this moment 
with the Kingsguard very 

1845
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:34,200
different. 
They're very friendly. 

1846
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:36,040
They're accepting. 
They call him Sir. 

1847
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:39,680
There is no Hemming and hawing 
about his title, about his rank.

1848
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:42,040
No looking down on him. 
No, like are you you know, they 

1849
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:44,680
just it's very different. 
It's complete, complete night 

1850
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:46,360
and day situation. 
Did you did that strike you that

1851
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:46,720
way? 
Sean? 

1852
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,600
Did you catch it this way or a? 
Little bit, yeah. 

1853
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:52,920
I, I will say what stood out to 
me is that he introduced himself

1854
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:57,320
to them as a knight with no 
shame or hesitance or red ears 

1855
01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:59,200
or anything like I'm Sir Duncan 
like. 

1856
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:02,760
And it sometimes he questions 
his own boldness, but this is a 

1857
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:06,840
nearly the highest authority 
that he could approach and call 

1858
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,280
himself a knight. 
And he does it without thinking 

1859
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,440
twice. 
So I want to give him credit for

1860
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:14,280
being bold and potential 
evidence for him really being a 

1861
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:16,800
knight. 
But also, it was pretty unique. 

1862
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:18,320
How? 
I don't know how to say this, 

1863
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,880
but yeah, like you were saying, 
like, respectful They were of 

1864
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:22,680
him. 
How down to earth that they 

1865
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:24,320
were. 
They didn't seem to have any 

1866
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:26,720
kind of like, leave us alone. 
Stable boy. 

1867
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:29,080
You know, the Kings Bar. 
We don't have time for you. 

1868
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:30,600
Like. 
Hey, how's it going, Sir? 

1869
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,040
Duncan. 
Hey, nice to meet you. 

1870
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,680
You know, they were, and it made
me, it did make me wonder a 

1871
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:37,480
little bit about the nature of 
these particular Kingsguard, 

1872
01:30:37,480 --> 01:30:41,120
like if we knew their past or 
who had chosen them to be 

1873
01:30:41,120 --> 01:30:44,440
Kingsguards, etcetera. 
Well, we do know about one of 

1874
01:30:44,440 --> 01:30:46,280
them a little bit. 
At least we have a guess. 

1875
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:48,240
Sir Roland of Craig Hall is one 
of them. 

1876
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:51,640
And we'll see Roland again. 
But we also have Sir Donald of 

1877
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,200
Dusk and Dale here. 
Now this is this is an 

1878
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:57,080
interesting point here. 
Nina did a little research on 

1879
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:59,080
this and found a quote from 
George as well. 

1880
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:01,720
George was asked about Sir 
Donald of Duskindale. 

1881
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:05,920
Now we know that House Darklin 
which is the lordly House of 

1882
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,200
that rules Duskindale. 
At least they did until Ares had

1883
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:12,440
them all killed after the 
defiance of Duskindale that the 

1884
01:31:12,440 --> 01:31:14,280
one that Barristan rescued him 
from. 

1885
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,320
That of course relates to Sir 
Dantos as well. 

1886
01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:20,600
Funny that Sir Dantos comes up 
twice because Dantos is related 

1887
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:24,520
to was a Hollard and the 
Hollards are related to the 

1888
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:30,040
Darklands and Barristan asked 
Aries to spare Dantos because 

1889
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:32,520
Aries was killing all the 
Hollards and Darklands and 

1890
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,640
Barristan's like, well, I can 
save two people here, not just 

1891
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:37,840
the king, but this guy, the 
King's killing his his family, 

1892
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:40,360
the King's killing. 
Anyway, the question posed to 

1893
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:45,760
George was, is Sir Donald one of
the seven Darkland Kingsguard? 

1894
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:49,160
The dark house Darkland has had 
more Kingsguard than any other 

1895
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:54,600
house ever. 7 as I said, but 
George says he's probably not a 

1896
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:56,040
darkman because it's Sir Donald 
of dusk. 

1897
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:58,160
If he was at Darkland, it would 
be Sir Donald Darkland. 

1898
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:02,520
But of Duskindale implies that 
he may not have had any noble 

1899
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:04,720
title at all. 
He may be common born like 

1900
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:07,920
Duncan because he doesn't have a
noble last name. 

1901
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:11,560
So it's very in fact likely, and
that might be part of the 

1902
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,720
friendliness here. 
He recognizes someone that has a

1903
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:18,920
bit more of a kindred spirit 
than most of these other, you 

1904
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,440
know, lordly nice Donald might 
be like happy to chat for a 

1905
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:25,400
minute with someone who isn't 
all snobby like the people he's 

1906
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:27,600
around all day. 
Not that they're all snobby, but

1907
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,000
you know, I'm sure he gets a. 
Lot of that it's deal with. 

1908
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:38,640
Aryan so so that's pretty 
interesting as a possible reason

1909
01:32:38,640 --> 01:32:41,360
in addition to them being nights
and and accepting him for that 

1910
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:42,440
reason. 
Or maybe they're just decent 

1911
01:32:42,440 --> 01:32:46,800
guys, but there may be an actual
like social class connection 

1912
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:48,960
here as well. 
I thought that was cool. 

1913
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:54,200
Good catch by Nina on that one. 
When he finally meets Baylor, 

1914
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:56,600
Baylor kind of comes to the 
rescue, right? 

1915
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:00,240
This quote here, I remember Sir 
Arlen of Penny Tree, the man in 

1916
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:02,800
the high seat said quietly. 
He never won attorney, that I 

1917
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:04,360
know, but he never shamed 
himself either. 

1918
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:07,360
At King's Landing 16 years ago, 
he overthrew Lord Stokeworth and

1919
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:09,040
the Bastard of Harrenhal and the
Melee. 

1920
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,360
And many years before 
Atlantisport, he enhorsed the 

1921
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:13,840
Gray Lion himself. 
The lion was not so Gray then, 

1922
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:17,440
to be sure. 
Real quick shout out to our 

1923
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:21,360
friend Micah Clark, who I was 
chatting with about Crusader 

1924
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:23,920
Kings 2, which I stream on 
Fridays, as some of you know, 

1925
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:26,600
and he is currently he's he's 
telling me about a campaign in 

1926
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:28,240
Crusader Kings 2 for Game of 
Thrones. 

1927
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:32,120
He started where he's played the
Gray Lion, who is Tywin's great,

1928
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:33,800
great grandfather. 
So there's, you know, a little 

1929
01:33:33,800 --> 01:33:36,640
connection there. 
The bastard of Harrenhal would 

1930
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,120
almost certainly be a lost in 
bastard. 

1931
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:44,040
And the losses have had the 
castle since 1:51, which is a 

1932
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:46,000
good 58 years. 
They've had it for, you know, 

1933
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,240
several generations now. 
And then we'll and we'll still 

1934
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:52,120
hold it until the reign of Makar
is when they'll lose it. 

1935
01:33:53,400 --> 01:33:55,800
They're not here, though. 
There's no Herrenhall isn't 

1936
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,040
represented here, which is 
interesting. 

1937
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:02,000
There's no, no Loftons here. 
And that might be because, well,

1938
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:06,920
we're told that Manfred Lofton 
was supposed to support Damon 

1939
01:34:06,920 --> 01:34:09,760
Blackfire, but at the on the eve
of battle, he changed sides. 

1940
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:12,640
So there might be some people 
that still kind of look down on 

1941
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,200
him because it's oh, it's known 
that he switched sides. 

1942
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:17,680
So maybe that means it's not 
trustworthy. 

1943
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:24,240
Do you think that if a lost in 
loses at attorney people make 

1944
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:28,920
fun of them and say ha lost in? 
If they win, do they get to 

1945
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:30,640
become Winston? 
That's the one of the name 

1946
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:31,920
Winston. 
That's where we got went. 

1947
01:34:32,440 --> 01:34:37,200
They went. 
It's funny because Went is a 

1948
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:42,200
single bat, 09 bats and Herron 
Hall's The Lost in Sigil is 1 

1949
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,640
bat. 
So you could say that they they 

1950
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:48,440
are Winstons, Winstons, but 
they're not. 

1951
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:51,760
So that tournament would have 
been in the year 193 this 

1952
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,880
tournament that Sir Arlen fought
Bailor Brakespeare. 

1953
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:58,560
So he wouldn't have been Bailor 
Brakespeare then. 

1954
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:02,520
He would have just been Baylor 
the Prince Bailor because the 

1955
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,640
Blackfyre rebellion was in 196. 
Well slash 197. 

1956
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:10,480
So the tourney was before that. 
And some of these, a lot of 

1957
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:13,840
these people would not have 
survived the war to be around 

1958
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:16,880
for this. 
I suppose this is something else

1959
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:19,760
that might have made its way 
into the story if George had 

1960
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:21,520
fully fleshed out the black 
fires prior to this. 

1961
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:25,520
But another one that's hard to 
say, but a pretty good guess, I 

1962
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:30,440
would think. 
Let's talk about horses. 

1963
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,480
It's really interesting to me to
think about Duncan's sweet foot 

1964
01:35:34,480 --> 01:35:37,040
and how attached to the horse he
is and how we get such a 

1965
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:39,360
different view of horses from 
the nobility. 

1966
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:44,480
Jamie is taught not to name his 
horses, right? 

1967
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:49,520
And when he goes to sell sweet 
foot to the master of horses, 

1968
01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:51,800
takes one look at the horse and 
says, my Lord of Ashford has no 

1969
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:56,880
need of such and just instantly 
and he still gets a a lot of 

1970
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:58,440
money for the horse. 
I don't know if it's a lot of 

1971
01:35:58,440 --> 01:36:01,400
money for a horse, but it's a 
lot of money amount that he says

1972
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:03,680
he could live a year off of. 
It's a huge amount of money. 

1973
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:08,400
But here's a couple of competing
quotes to give us an example of 

1974
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,240
how these horses are are sort of
viewed by the different people. 

1975
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:12,920
So we'll start off with Arlen's 
quote. 

1976
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:15,600
The old man always says that a 
knight should never love a 

1977
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:19,280
horse, since more than a few 
were liked to die under him, but

1978
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:20,760
he never heeded his own counsel 
either. 

1979
01:36:21,480 --> 01:36:25,280
And then Jamie says. 
His palfrey was a blood Bay 

1980
01:36:25,480 --> 01:36:27,360
destrier of magnificent grey 
stallion. 

1981
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:30,000
It had been long years since 
Jamie had named any of his 

1982
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:31,760
horses. 
He had seen too many die in 

1983
01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:34,120
battle. 
That was harder than that was 

1984
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:36,720
harder when you named him. 
But when the Piper boys started 

1985
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:39,560
calling them honor and Glory 
laughed and let the name stand. 

1986
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,840
Glory word trappings of 
Lannister Crimson. 

1987
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,600
Honor was guarded in King's 
Guard White. 

1988
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:49,480
So I just have two things here. 
One, I wonder what Jamie named 

1989
01:36:49,480 --> 01:36:53,280
his horses in the 1st place said
It had been long years since he 

1990
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:55,520
did it. 
So I guess as a as a teen, as a 

1991
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,640
child, he did it so. 
That's sarcastic. 

1992
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:02,000
Probably right? 
But yes, also just the idea of 

1993
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,960
honor and glory dying. 
Yeah, it does seem to me I've 

1994
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:10,080
thought about this quite a bit 
even aside from Game of Thrones 

1995
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:13,840
or just other contexts of, I 
don't know, Westerns and life 

1996
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:17,640
and olden times or whatever. 
How important horses are that 

1997
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:20,880
because in a way they're in a 
way they're like a car. 

1998
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:23,600
They are. 
And a car it's you know, give or

1999
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:28,160
take, you know, 20 ish, $1000 
maybe get a cheap car for 5000 

2000
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:30,400
or expensive one for 80,000. 
There's probably some variation 

2001
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:33,240
in the value of horses, you 
know, their age or their breed 

2002
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:37,440
and all this stuff. 
But but to someone like dunk or 

2003
01:37:37,440 --> 01:37:40,360
a a night in general, but maybe 
especially a hedge night, it's 

2004
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:44,680
not just a car, it's kind of 
your home and your job and 

2005
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,520
everything right And you're. 
Not a knight without a horse, 

2006
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:48,600
yeah. 
Right. 

2007
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:53,320
And it's, it's to me, I feel 
like I, I, I, I, I'm hesitant to

2008
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:55,200
say this because I don't want to
be like a knock on George or 

2009
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,560
anything, but I almost feel like
they should think more about 

2010
01:37:57,560 --> 01:37:59,720
their horses. 
You know, it should be more a 

2011
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:02,440
part of their life, the effort 
to keep them fed and watered 

2012
01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:06,200
and, and armored and, and, and 
taking care of their, their, 

2013
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:09,240
their, their hooves, you know, 
their, they call it the, the 

2014
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:11,480
horseshoes, you know, etcetera, 
etcetera. 

2015
01:38:11,480 --> 01:38:15,040
It seems like that's just such 
an imperative, integral part of 

2016
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:17,560
their lives. 
And even some of the stuff along

2017
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:22,080
that in our life, cars now they 
don't like, they don't have 

2018
01:38:22,080 --> 01:38:26,040
personalities and they're just 
so even cars to US versus cars 

2019
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:28,160
50 years ago, we just like press
a button and they just start up,

2020
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:30,880
you know what I mean? 
Like, but in the old days you 

2021
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:33,240
had to know how to change a tire
and check your oil. 

2022
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:34,840
You had to kind of take care of 
your car. 

2023
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:36,680
Nowadays things are better 
streamline. 

2024
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:41,880
But so I, I, I can see how maybe
some wealthy Lords horse are 

2025
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:43,760
expendable that they don't deal 
with that. 

2026
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:45,960
They have stable boys and 
blacksmiths or whatever. 

2027
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:49,040
But someone like Dunk or even a 
knight, even a wealthy knight, 

2028
01:38:49,320 --> 01:38:52,200
it seems like the connection to 
their horse would be very 

2029
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:54,600
important. 
And I guess I understand the 

2030
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:57,480
idea of like they're going to 
die, can't get attached, but I 

2031
01:38:57,480 --> 01:39:00,080
just, I just, I feel like the 
more attached you get, the 

2032
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:02,440
better knight you'll be. 
The better you know and care for

2033
01:39:02,440 --> 01:39:05,640
your horse, the better they'll 
perform in battle or contest or 

2034
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:06,520
whatever else. 
You're right. 

2035
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:11,040
Yeah, Can I also say I found out
something recently, there's a 

2036
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,400
horse farm near us, right? 
And someone took a picture and 

2037
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:17,200
posted on next door of these 
horses and they had these like 

2038
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:21,720
bright neon colored, like look 
like leg warmers on their legs. 

2039
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:24,400
And it's the summertime. 
So everyone was really confused.

2040
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:27,520
I was making jokes about them 
being out of the 80s because it,

2041
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,640
it looks ridiculous. 
No, they're not coolers. 

2042
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:35,200
It's because of flies. 
Because it, it'll not only annoy

2043
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:38,800
them, but they'll stomp and 
they'll hurt themselves and 

2044
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:41,680
they'll sometimes run and move a
lot more than they need to. 

2045
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:46,560
Little things like that, that 
your horses apparently need to 

2046
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:48,600
be protected from. 
Flies even. 

2047
01:39:49,440 --> 01:39:51,000
Yeah, I could. 
That could be really annoying I 

2048
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:54,560
would think. 
This is an interesting little 

2049
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:56,480
tidbit. 
I learned one time also that in 

2050
01:39:56,480 --> 01:40:02,680
the early 1900s, there was a a 
doctor of sorts who was studying

2051
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:06,600
human behavior or behavior in 
general, and he realized that he

2052
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,440
had found this horse that could 
count and. 

2053
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:12,760
He was touring it around, he was
studying it, he was inviting 

2054
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:14,640
other scientists. 
He's like he was, he was 

2055
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:17,280
genuine, you know, like this 
isn't some kind of trick. 

2056
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:19,360
I really believe this horse can 
count. 

2057
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:23,400
I'm inviting other scientists to
help me study how and why it is.

2058
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:30,160
And eventually someone realized 
that the horse was anticipating,

2059
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,480
you know, if they, he would tell
the course count to 4 and horse 

2060
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:37,960
would stop. 
It took 1234 and A and 714, 

2061
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:39,840
whatever it was, and a horse 
would just do it. 

2062
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:44,440
And they realized that the horse
was detecting little 

2063
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:49,480
subconscious nuanced biting 
language of the people around. 

2064
01:40:49,480 --> 01:40:51,440
Like I'm going to exaggerate it.
But like, what if you're 

2065
01:40:51,440 --> 01:40:54,360
supposed to count the four when 
when you got the three and 

2066
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:57,440
everyone when it got the four, 
everyone were like 4, you know, 

2067
01:40:57,440 --> 01:40:59,200
like obviously that's 
exaggerated, you know what I 

2068
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:02,440
mean? 
But animals are just as keen as 

2069
01:41:02,440 --> 01:41:06,240
humans and detecting little bits
of facial expressions and 

2070
01:41:06,240 --> 01:41:08,720
shoulder movements, Just like we
can kind of tell when someone's 

2071
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:10,600
lying, animals have that same 
sort of thing. 

2072
01:41:11,440 --> 01:41:13,560
What happened was when when they
figured out what was really 

2073
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,520
happening, everyone was like, 
oh, horses are just dumb 

2074
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:20,280
animals, but no, they're not. 
That's their super. 

2075
01:41:20,480 --> 01:41:22,240
That's smart. 
That's really intelligent. 

2076
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:24,960
That's super clever. 
It was almost proof of how smart

2077
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:28,440
they were, but it was taken to 
be of proof that they weren't 

2078
01:41:28,440 --> 01:41:31,200
smart at all. 
And I just, it just hurts my 

2079
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:33,840
soul to think about horses just 
being kept in little boxes, 

2080
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:35,720
staring at blank walls, you know
what I mean? 

2081
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:37,480
They. 
Were literally designed 

2082
01:41:37,480 --> 01:41:40,760
evolutionarily over millions of 
years to run around in open 

2083
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:44,280
fields and when we realized they
have such a connection with 

2084
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:46,840
humans to read our body 
language, have some 

2085
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:48,960
understanding, even if they 
can't quite understand like 

2086
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:51,600
numbers are counting, but to 
understand that we want 

2087
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:53,840
something connected to counting 
and to read our language. 

2088
01:41:54,440 --> 01:41:56,920
But then we're like oh they're 
dumb stick in my boxes like oh 

2089
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,520
man I and it's one thing I 
particularly appreciate about 

2090
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:01,520
Don because he seems to really 
care about his horse. 

2091
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:04,640
I think that's a he's a, he's a 
good. 

2092
01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:06,920
Pet owner, I mean, it is, it's, 
it's, it's more than a pet 

2093
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:08,320
because it, it provides a 
service. 

2094
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:09,520
Like he said, it's part of his 
employment. 

2095
01:42:09,520 --> 01:42:11,240
But yeah, he, he loves his. 
He's grateful. 

2096
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:14,640
The name of that horse is Clever
Hans if you want to look that 

2097
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:16,160
horse up. 
Oh, the counting horse. 

2098
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:17,760
Nice. 
Yeah. 

2099
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:22,600
Like it's, it's a, it's a 
dichotomy of a lot of Western 

2100
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:24,160
thought. 
Maybe, maybe I'm wrong to say 

2101
01:42:24,160 --> 01:42:26,040
Western, but I think it's it's 
common. 

2102
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:28,200
Maybe that's just 'cause it's 
what I'm most familiar with. 

2103
01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:33,360
But to say that to denigrate non
IQ forms of intelligence, right,

2104
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:35,640
that's what that horse did was 
clever. 

2105
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:39,360
It's maybe a form of emotional 
intelligence, like using context

2106
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:40,920
clues to figure out the right 
answer. 

2107
01:42:40,920 --> 01:42:41,920
Like you said, that's 
intelligent. 

2108
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:45,200
Maybe intelligent isn't the 
right word, but it's some sort 

2109
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:48,160
of brain power that arrived at 
the right answer repeatedly 

2110
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:53,360
using a a pattern or a method 
that came naturally to the brain

2111
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,200
of that horse. 
I mean, emotional intelligence 

2112
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:57,880
is a thing. 
I think Dunk has a lot of 

2113
01:42:57,880 --> 01:43:01,800
emotional intelligence. 
He's not he, he's not be 

2114
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:08,080
defeated by his situation. 
He's got a great attitude about 

2115
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:11,200
his future. 
He's got confidence, which I 

2116
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:13,160
think is a form of emotional 
intelligence. 

2117
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:16,920
Too much confidence is. 
Yeah, is that's not a form of 

2118
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,000
emotional intelligence. 
Maybe it's something that needs 

2119
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:20,560
to be tapered a little. 
Bit a lack of emotional 

2120
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:21,440
intelligence. 
Yeah. 

2121
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:26,440
But it's really important to 
just as a real world thing to, 

2122
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:31,760
for us to all establish that IQ,
it is one form of intelligence. 

2123
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:33,640
It's not the form of 
intelligence. 

2124
01:43:34,440 --> 01:43:37,200
Yeah, are you street smart? 
Yeah. 

2125
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:40,080
Are you horse smart? 
Are you horse trail smart? 

2126
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:41,680
Are you hedge smart? 
Yeah. 

2127
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:45,000
Hedge smart, nice, that's what 
it is. 

2128
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:49,560
And this OK, So what you were 
saying about the horse like 

2129
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:52,720
knowing and being smart, but we 
have that. 

2130
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:55,160
You're right that George puts 
that in here. 

2131
01:43:56,040 --> 01:44:00,320
Look at this quote from Danny of
like really early in A Game of 

2132
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:02,760
Thrones. 
The call had commanded the 

2133
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:07,680
handmade Erie to teach Danny to 
ride in the Dothraki fashion, 

2134
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,480
but it was the Philly who was 
her real teacher. 

2135
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:14,240
The horse seemed to know her 
moods as if they shared a single

2136
01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:19,840
mine with every passing day. 
Danny felt sure in her seat that

2137
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:23,520
Athraki were a hard and 
unsentimental people, and it was

2138
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:25,520
not their custom to name their 
animals. 

2139
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:29,600
So Danny thought of her only as 
the silver. 

2140
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,240
She had never loved anything so 
much. 

2141
01:44:32,440 --> 01:44:35,880
Like that line is so telling. 
She had never loved anything so 

2142
01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:37,680
much. 
Like clearly George R Martin 

2143
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:39,360
understands bonding with a 
horse. 

2144
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:42,320
You know, like. 
Yeah, I mean, she's never had a 

2145
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:44,040
pet. 
I mean, George has a bunch of 

2146
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:45,560
pets. 
He's had them since he was a 

2147
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:47,360
kid. 
So yeah, he definitely 

2148
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:50,120
understands that. 
And, and this is not the only 

2149
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:53,800
example of it, like Dunk's 
closeness to his horse is is 

2150
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:55,720
heartfelt. 
Danny's is as well. 

2151
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:58,640
And in both situations, these 
are people, especially at 

2152
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:01,480
Danny's, that point in Danny's 
story, she's pretty lonely. 

2153
01:45:01,480 --> 01:45:03,160
She's got her brother who's been
pretty terrible at her. 

2154
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,640
She's just been married off to 
this barbarian warrior guy, this

2155
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:10,280
warlord fearsome guy that she's 
like, what's going on here? 

2156
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:13,040
So it's super early in her 
story. 

2157
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:16,560
So like to have this, this 
relationship with her horse is, 

2158
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:20,640
is like a, a lifeline almost as 
she gains strength because it's 

2159
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:23,040
not long after that where she 
starts to really come into her 

2160
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:25,360
own, you know? 
In terms of Danny and that line 

2161
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:28,760
also, I think it really sets 
things up for her Dragons when 

2162
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:31,680
it says she had never loved 
anything so much, which is that 

2163
01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:34,720
her, her children, her pets, 
that's what she loves the most. 

2164
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:36,120
It's a good point. 
It's a good point. 

2165
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:39,520
And then there's other examples 
like Sandor's Stranger, like 

2166
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,800
Sandor is very keen on that 
horse. 

2167
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:45,520
Like when the, when there's the 
riots, the riot, for God's sake,

2168
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:49,440
he's like, I'm going back out 
there to get my horse, right? 

2169
01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:54,400
Like now. 
Gregor would not do that. 

2170
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:56,640
Gregor clearly doesn't. 
Head. 

2171
01:45:57,440 --> 01:46:00,600
Off. 
Yeah, it's the opposite, right? 

2172
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:05,120
Like once again, Gregor is the 
reason Sandor thinks all the 

2173
01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:07,440
whole idea of knighthood is 
ridiculous, because if that 

2174
01:46:07,440 --> 01:46:10,640
guy's a knight then the whole 
thing is garbage. 

2175
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:15,360
Oh, there are like, named horses
that come to mind. 

2176
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:18,880
Theon's smiler, who of course 
also has a horrible ending, 

2177
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,320
worse than Gregor's horse, 
because Gregor's horse at least 

2178
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:24,160
died quickly. 
This one was burning as Theon 

2179
01:46:24,160 --> 01:46:29,000
is, as Winterfell is burning 
with it, so that's anything but 

2180
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:32,080
smiling. 
And then Brand's horse, Dancer, 

2181
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:36,240
the one that is given to him 
after his fall on Tyrion's 

2182
01:46:36,240 --> 01:46:38,760
suggestion. 
And that horse, of course, is 

2183
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:40,800
pretty special. 
Bran had a connection to Dancer,

2184
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:42,400
but of course Dancer. 
I don't even know what happened 

2185
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:44,760
to Dancer. 
I assume Dancer may have been 

2186
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:46,400
killed. 
Yeah, yeah, I think that's 

2187
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:50,080
that's what Bran assumed is that
Dancer has been killed and all 

2188
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,000
that. 
I wonder why Bran named her 

2189
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:53,960
Dancer, for one. 
And I wonder if there's any 

2190
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:56,840
significance to that other than 
the fact that Bran will never 

2191
01:46:56,840 --> 01:46:59,400
dance again. 
I I think there was something 

2192
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:02,320
about like how the horse was 
like light on his feet maybe. 

2193
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:05,720
But the quote it hears from 
Dornish Dame says Bran had named

2194
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:08,680
her dancer. 
She was two years old and Joseph

2195
01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:11,840
had said she was smarter than 
any horse had a right to be. 

2196
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:15,600
They had trained her special to 
respond to rain and voice and 

2197
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:16,880
touch. 
Nice. 

2198
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:18,880
Yeah, there you go. 
Another smart horse. 

2199
01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:21,040
They're popping up all over Song
of Ice and Fire. 

2200
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:24,440
I'm glad that this novella gave 
us a chance to bring this topic 

2201
01:47:24,440 --> 01:47:25,400
up. 
Clearly we could have brought 

2202
01:47:25,400 --> 01:47:27,400
this up at some other time. 
Is obviously most of our 

2203
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:31,120
examples come from the main main
novels, but it it takes dunks 

2204
01:47:31,720 --> 01:47:36,480
close attention and love and 
sadness to really draw it out 

2205
01:47:36,480 --> 01:47:39,840
and to make us a two more 
looking and we found. 

2206
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:43,080
I really wish I could remember 
who made this joke in our 

2207
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:47,080
Facebook group, but so sorry. 
But someone made-up brought up 

2208
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:51,840
that any Dithraki that sees a 
bracken is not going to be happy

2209
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:55,480
by them using the face of their 
God as a sigil. 

2210
01:47:56,360 --> 01:48:00,480
Yeah, right. 
OK, let's maybe they'll be 

2211
01:48:00,480 --> 01:48:03,040
proud. 
Oh, these guys get it. 

2212
01:48:03,680 --> 01:48:05,280
Yeah, you're, you're right. 
Maybe. 

2213
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:09,080
OK, so our last subtopic for the
day. 

2214
01:48:09,080 --> 01:48:13,480
It's going to take us back to 
the wildfire topic while keeping

2215
01:48:13,480 --> 01:48:17,960
us rooted in a hedge night while
also looking forward to the 

2216
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:19,960
mystery night. 
Steely Pate. 

2217
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:22,320
Let's talk about Steely Pate for
a second. 

2218
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:25,760
Dunk thinks on how armors are 
also wary of hedge nights, and 

2219
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:31,040
Steely Pate does seem to No, he 
doesn't look down on him, But 

2220
01:48:31,240 --> 01:48:33,520
he, you know, he's like, 
skeptical. 

2221
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:35,200
A little skeptical. 
Yeah, a little skeptical. 

2222
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:37,600
That's a good word. 
This guy, Yeah. 

2223
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:39,480
I'm the this is good armor. 
What about it? 

2224
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:43,080
Yeah. 
And so he says this line. 

2225
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:46,120
I have some pieces in me wagon 
that might do for you, the man 

2226
01:48:46,120 --> 01:48:48,600
said when he was done. 
I make Helms that look like 

2227
01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:51,400
Helms, not wing pigs and other 
queer formed fruits. 

2228
01:48:51,800 --> 01:48:54,000
Mine will serve you better if 
you take a Lance in the face. 

2229
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:55,760
He does. 
Take a Lance to the face and the

2230
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:57,640
mystery night. 
Here's the line. 

2231
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,240
How is it that you're still 
walking about the snail stove 

2232
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:03,600
your face in? 
Steely Pate made me a good 

2233
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,960
strong helm. 
The Lord in my head. 

2234
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:09,040
It's hard as stone, Sarah Arlen 
used to say. 

2235
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:12,880
That's pretty good. 
So set up and delivery there we 

2236
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:14,200
go. 
We were talking about how 

2237
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:18,960
certain lines stick out tall 
drink of water like winged pigs 

2238
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:21,600
and queer foreign fruits. 
Like that's a pretty those are 

2239
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:24,280
pretty peculiar examples for him
to throw out there 'cause 

2240
01:49:24,280 --> 01:49:28,560
there's mostly like most of the,
the helmets are like animals, 

2241
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:30,480
right? 
Like winged pigs, sure, that's 

2242
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:32,680
an animal, but like, they're 
mostly like lions and tigers 

2243
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:35,520
and. 
Well, here we have make it clear

2244
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:39,720
that either Clayton Suggs is 
there or Steely Pete has been 

2245
01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:43,280
asked to do that, or he just has
other blacksmith friends who 

2246
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:46,000
either way he's aware of that 
helm. 

2247
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:48,840
But my question is, what is the 
queer foreign fruit that someone

2248
01:49:48,840 --> 01:49:50,120
has? 
I I, yeah. 

2249
01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:52,160
Does someone actually get a 
helmet of a queer foreign fruit?

2250
01:49:52,280 --> 01:49:55,720
Well, I I have a maybe a take on
this. 

2251
01:49:56,360 --> 01:49:59,000
Might not connect, but yeah, 
just just to make sure it was 

2252
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:00,760
clear. 
Sir Clayton Suggs, as Shea said,

2253
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:05,400
that's the night that, you know,
constantly taunting Asha about 

2254
01:50:05,400 --> 01:50:06,480
how she's going to be burned to 
death. 

2255
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:11,200
His sigil is a flying pig for a 
winged pig, so there you go. 

2256
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:12,560
But yeah, the queer foreign 
fruits. 

2257
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:14,120
It's a weird line, isn't it? 
Like. 

2258
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:18,560
I just took it to be like, I 
don't know, sarcasm, mockery, 

2259
01:50:18,560 --> 01:50:21,280
even these fancy Lords with 
their nonsense. 

2260
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:24,400
I'm just making a helmet. 
And you know, maybe he did want 

2261
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:28,000
to reference certain ones, but I
thought he would just making fun

2262
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:29,920
of the type of things that they 
wanted. 

2263
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:31,480
I definitely think he's making 
fun. 

2264
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:33,080
I agree with that. 
But I think it might be one of 

2265
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:35,960
these multiple meaning things. 
And here's where. 

2266
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:39,800
And this brings us back to the 
fact that this was written right

2267
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:42,080
next to A Clash of Kings, right 
at the same time. 

2268
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:46,800
Check out this line from the 
pyromancer Haileen. 

2269
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:50,880
There is a vault below this one,
where we store the older pots, 

2270
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:54,040
those from King Airy's day. 
It was his fancy to have the 

2271
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:56,480
drawers made in a shape of 
fruits. 

2272
01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:01,280
Perilous fruits indeed, my Lord.
Hand and Ripper now than ever if

2273
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:04,520
you take my meaning. 
So there you go, George is just 

2274
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:07,360
sticking wildfire and all these 
different places in between A 

2275
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:10,320
Game of Thrones and A Clash of 
Kings, likely inserting it here 

2276
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:13,000
into the Hedge Night or with 
plans for Summer Hall and all 

2277
01:51:13,000 --> 01:51:16,280
that. 
I'll repeat that it wasn't 

2278
01:51:16,280 --> 01:51:18,240
mentioned in A Game of Thrones 
at all. 

2279
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:22,360
And perilous fruits, I mean, 
these fruits are still there. 

2280
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:25,120
Some of these were were hurled 
into the Blackwater during the 

2281
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:27,560
Battle of the Blackwater, and 
some of them are probably still 

2282
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:31,880
concealed somewhere and King's 
Landing undiscovered as of now. 

2283
01:51:32,440 --> 01:51:35,520
And well, that could that's 
probably going to be relevant, 

2284
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:35,960
isn't it? 
Do. 

2285
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:40,600
You have any clever fruits to 
have wildfire stored in like I I

2286
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:47,480
thought of passion fire, maybe 
passion fruits, green apples? 

2287
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:49,520
Wild strawberries are already a 
thing. 

2288
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:50,360
There's got to be something 
wild. 

2289
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:54,480
There you go. 
Yeah, wild Blueberries, wild. 

2290
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:57,400
Strawberries Wild. 
I was thinking maybe like if 

2291
01:51:57,400 --> 01:52:01,640
winged winged pigs or something 
unlikely, maybe these this queer

2292
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:05,520
foreign fruit is also a 
particularly unusual unlikely 

2293
01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:07,000
type of thing. 
I was trying to think about what

2294
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:10,320
kind of fruits are punny. 
Yeah, that's an. 

2295
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:12,040
That's a reasonable thought for 
sure. 

2296
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,320
If you have idea. 
Just wanted like banana horns. 

2297
01:52:15,640 --> 01:52:17,800
Oh I love that. 
I really like that. 

2298
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:21,160
No, I'm just picturing now that 
like, we don't have bananas in 

2299
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:24,880
Westeros, they exist in Essos. 
Orange, orange, the Thorios or 

2300
01:52:24,880 --> 01:52:27,680
whatnot. 
And so yes, someone has a banana

2301
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:29,720
helm. 
Doesn't have to be horns, but it

2302
01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:31,920
could just be 1. 
Instead of Knight of the 

2303
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:33,640
Laughing Tree, we have Knight. 
Of the banana. 

2304
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:35,720
Yeah, exactly. 
That's what I'm picturing right 

2305
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:37,200
now. 
Banana Corn. 

2306
01:52:38,120 --> 01:52:39,840
Instead of Knight of the 
Laughing Tree, it's Knight of 

2307
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:42,960
the Lemon Tree. 
That's the real mystery of the 

2308
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:45,320
Red Door and Danny. 
It's the Knight of the Lemon 

2309
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:48,840
Tree with a red shield. 
So if you guys have theories on 

2310
01:52:48,840 --> 01:52:52,480
the queer foreign fruits or any 
other way to connect this to 

2311
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:55,840
Eris's Wildfire? 
We've got 1 here in the chat 

2312
01:52:55,840 --> 01:53:00,760
from Teddy D, says House 
Merryweather started to appear 

2313
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:03,440
in A Storm of Swords and they 
have a horn of plenty with 

2314
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:07,480
apples, carrots, plums, onions, 
leeks, turnips and fruits. 

2315
01:53:07,480 --> 01:53:10,920
So picture they just have like a
a horn of fruit bowl on their 

2316
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:13,320
helmet. 
That's quite a helmet. 

2317
01:53:13,960 --> 01:53:18,120
A Dunk also eats duck with 
lemons and cherries at at the 

2318
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:23,120
end and he's excited about that 
and of course eating duck makes 

2319
01:53:23,120 --> 01:53:25,720
you think of Sir duck. 
You know who he's a parallel to.

2320
01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:28,320
So hey, maybe that's a little 
you just can't keep up with 

2321
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:30,040
George. 
Even when we do we do this like 

2322
01:53:30,040 --> 01:53:32,520
2 hours plus a week and we still
can't keep up with this guy. 

2323
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:38,360
Well, he did have a head start, 
but still OK that we'll leave 

2324
01:53:38,360 --> 01:53:40,520
off there. 
We've got of course plenty more 

2325
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:43,160
story to go. 
We'll we'll most likely start 

2326
01:53:43,160 --> 01:53:47,200
next week with almost right 
away. 

2327
01:53:47,200 --> 01:53:49,600
We'll get into the shield and 
the sigil, which is a great 

2328
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:51,160
juicy topic. 
That's going to be really fun to

2329
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:55,320
talk about how that echoes 
forward into a Song of Ice and 

2330
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:57,680
Fire and pops up in other 
places. 

2331
01:53:57,960 --> 01:53:59,800
But we'll have lots of other 
things to say as well. 

2332
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:02,320
Prepare your questions, your 
thoughts, your comments. 

2333
01:54:02,800 --> 01:54:06,680
So thanks again, everybody. 
Thanks to Michael Klarfeld for 

2334
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:11,280
our video intro and for the 
lovely and detailed maps you see

2335
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:13,640
behind me. 
Thanks to Kevin McLeod for the 

2336
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:16,440
Valeritas music. 
Thanks to Joey Townsend, Jessie 

2337
01:54:16,440 --> 01:54:18,680
Koal for our regular Valeritas 
music. 

2338
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:21,680
Thanks to Ben Janeer for our 
sound quality. 

2339
01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:25,760
And check out our friends Here 
Be Dragons over on Steven 

2340
01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:27,040
Stark's channel. 
They're going to talk about 

2341
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:31,720
world building and campaign 
design for D&D and related 

2342
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:34,600
properties. 
So that's cool. 

2343
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:38,520
That's a great topic. 
I love how big D&D is now. 

2344
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:41,280
It was, it's so it's so 
different when I was a kid, when

2345
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:46,120
I was a teenager, D&D was just 
like so denigrated by so many 

2346
01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:47,920
people. 
Now it's like very mainstream 

2347
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:49,480
and I just. 
I love that it was almost like a

2348
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:51,680
secret society. 
So it's a good way to put. 

2349
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:53,240
It you cool? 
You cool? 

2350
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:54,320
Yeah. 
It's like, really? 

2351
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:56,400
But really, everybody else 
thought we were uncool, but 

2352
01:54:56,400 --> 01:55:00,400
yeah, yeah. 
But yeah, it's like like so much

2353
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:04,000
of fantasy and, and, and these 
things that were not so cool 

2354
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:05,680
when we were younger, they're a 
lot more mainstream now. 

2355
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:08,320
I don't know if they're cool 
now, but they're definitely more

2356
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:10,360
people like them and. 
They're hot that DND. 

2357
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,520
Like, like the summers after the
Dragons died out. 

2358
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:18,560
Indeed. 
All right, folks, we'll see you 

2359
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:22,680
all next week for more Valar 
rereads.